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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-08-21 TranscriptionAugust 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill 7:(5 City Council: Horow, Kubby, Lehman, Nov, Pigott, Throg. Absent: Baker. staff: Arkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Ogren, Neumann, Pelkey, Davidson, Schmadeke, Smith. Others: Tapes: 95-98, all. county Landfill Issues Horow/ I appreciate you all being here. The response to the letter makes me feel there is something worth talking about here. As the letter suggested the issue of the landfill and where we go with our garbage is something that isn't always really well understood in terms of the financial and legal implications. Iowa City makes no claim as to where anybody decides to go. I just really want to make that clear. But if you do decide to go somewhere else, I felt that it would be helpful if you understood right up front what we as a landfill owner deal with and what you as a contributor to another landfill will have to become aware of because as your contract with your haulers indicate or should indicate the hauler does not have the responsibility once you take your material out of your town and deposit it in another landfill. There is a paper trail back to you legally. So, I have asked Mr. Arkins to kind of honcho this and he has given us an agenda. If we could round the table for the purposes of the audiences, actually even the audience as well, get to know who is who. That would help. Glen, could you start. Introductions: Glen Siders Russ Bailey Ed Jasper Bib Weiser A1 Axeen Glen Potter Doug Morgan Don Swanson Susan Horowitz Joe Bolcum Mayor Pro Tem, North Liberty Mayor, Hills Mayor Pro Tem, Oxford Mayor, Lone Tree Mayor, Coralville Mayor, Tiffin City Administrator, Kalona Mayor, University Heights Mayor, Iowa City J.C. Board of Supervisors Jim Throgmorton City Council, Iowa city Louise From city Council, University Heights Nancy N & N Sanitation - N & N Sanitation - N & N Sanitation This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Page2 ~ Roger Stone Bey Ogren Karen Kubby Jennifer Staff, Iowa City City Council, Iowa City Bruno Pigott Linda Woito Brad Neumann Floyd Pelkey City Council, Iowa City City Attorney, Iowa City JCCOG Staff, Iowa City Steve Atkins City Manager, Iowa City - Press Citizen Jeff Davidson JCCOG Chuck Schmadeke Staff, I0wa City Dale Helling Carol Casey Naomi Novick Tom Jill Smith Staff, Iowa City Waste Generator, University of Iowa City Council, Iowa City Administrator, Staff, Iowa City Cedar Rapids Gazette Horow/ Thank you. Riverside City Council Member, would you please join us at the table. Thanks. Arkins/ What I would like to do is I will try to follow along pretty closely with the agenda. The purpose of my presentation is intended to be more factual than anything. Just to kind of give you an overview of the general issues and the operations of the Iowa City landfill. As many of you know or should know, the City of Iowa City operates a landfill for regional purposes. That is somewhat unusual. The State of Iowa I only know of a couple of other instances where a municipality actually owns, as a government agency, the landfill and then provides that service and or makes it available to other governments, businesses in their particular sphere of influence whether it be the county or multi-county. The Iowa City landfill is licensed by the Department of Natural Resources to accept 78,000 tons annually of waste. At one time at its height, it was 106,000 that we were receiving. Practically speaking that tonnage doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on it other than us as it is actually built into our permit. The city's Residential Refuse Program, that program that Floyd Pelkey runs on behalf of the city is about 12% of that total or about 9,000-10,000 ton. The remaining tonnage Thlsreprasentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscriptlonefthelowa City council meetlngofAugust21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill Page 3 comes from business and industry in Iowa City, your communities, Johnson County as well as the residential use of all the other cities and county. So as you can see, the overwhelming majority of the waste that enters the Iowa City landfill is not, as is often the case thought of, generated by our municipal pickup program. The city is the owner-operator- permit holder, pretty much everything, in respect to the operation of the landfill. As the permit holder, we are responsible for all, underline the word all, waste that enters the landfill. We are responsible for the compliance with all regulations, many of which we don't have the control over as we'll talk about a little later on. But the compliance with regulations as the permit holder, we are responsible for. We are also responsible for any sanctions, that is penalties, that might occur with respect to our non-compliance with any type of regulation. Now let me give you an example of some of those obligations. For practical purposes, the landfill is a hole in the ground. And every couple of years, the city must build a cell. A landfill cell, that is what's used on day to day activities of landfilling, is a cost of about $800,000. That has increased from $250,000 per cell over the last 3-4 years and we expect it to go higher. We have an obligation to close the landfill at some time, that is to meet all the regulations associated with closing the landfill, shutting it down, and then we have a post-closure obligation under current law of 30 years. For all practical purposes we have a closure obligation forever. That law can be easily changed. To give you an idea of cost simply to close a landfill cell, one acre of ground is about $50-70,000. That's to shut it down. We must then treat the leachate that comes from that cell, in other words the 30 year obligation forever. We have an obligation to meet the volume reduction requirements of the state or federal government. In 1995, we were to have reduced by 25% the volumes going into the landfill. We were successful. When I say we, all of us here. By the year 2000, there is a goal, to my knowledge it is not law yet, it is a goal to reduce that volume 50%. So I think as you can see, we care not only who uses the landfill, what they put there, how much they put there, how they regulate the collection of their waste, and where will they be say in the next 30 years. As a public landfills are highly regulated by both the federal and state government. Ultimately all of you on city councils know full well of those things such as mandates, transfer into expense on the part of the local government. The regulations cover just about everything imaginable how waste is disposed of, for example yard waste can no longer go into the landfill. It must be composted. How much can go into the landfill? What is This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Page 4 actually in the waste that goes into the landfill? The construction techniques for a new cell. It's not that we design these based on our standards. We have to design those based on the standards based on the state and federal government. We pay the taxes on your waste. Whether you know it or not, you're paying a couple of bucks per ton state tax of waste you dispose of. And then the long term care and closure of the landfill rests with the owner, again, the city of Iowa City. And the final decisions which will be made probably by the next generation is what is going to be the final land use for that landfill. Now what are services that are provided? Well first of all, the landfill in the simplest terms is the site for the final disposal of your acceptable waste. Final. It's resting place. that's where we put it. We also provide off-site disposal services by way of the landfill: tires, white goods which are another nice word for refrigerators and other items, bulky items, yard waste must be composted, drop off locations for newspaper and plastic, and oil depository, the toxic cleanup day, the paint cleanup day, and then the program of education that we run through the staff that manages the landfill. All of those services are built into your tipping fee. Through your payments or however you make your arrangements for collection, your citizens are entitled to use all of the services because they're financed by the landfill. The landfill finances, it is in effect, we call it an enterprize fund. Are they all familiar with that concept. The waste generated and the services provided are paid for by the fees, that is the tipping fee and other specialized services. It is not for profit. The landfill is financially sound, as sound as a landfill can be. You're not going to be able to go out and borrow against the financial position. We as a city back the landfill with the full faith and credit of our operations, which also strengthens the overall financing. We have no debt from the landfill. We have reserves which provide for capital, that is when we build a new cell, it's a cash deal. We have seaside money along from the tipping fee to pay for these cells. The recently, recently a couple of years ago, bought a tub grinder to mash everything up, again a big ticket item, $150,000. We have reserves set aside to pay for those. Leachate collection, we are in the process of building a new lift station. All of those are financed by way of the tipping fee. We also have operational reserves for the day to day cash flow of running the landfill. And we have to date, I don't expect it to change, a vigorous collection policy which we believe are on your behalf as well our own with respect to payment. We also have a reserve set up for future closure. That's the $5 and $10 per ton that was Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetrm~scription ofthelowa City council meeting of August 21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Page 5 added. Financial insurance, that is the state government must be assured by the city that we have sufficient money in place to close the landfill at some time in the future. From the $50-70,000 per acre in today's dollars, we estimate that we will have to have a set aside in the neighborhood of $7,000,000 over the next few years. We are well on our way to providing that financial assurance. We as a local government do not use any of our property taxes to finance the landfill, but we do use and carry the landfill on our books like any other city operation and therefore the strength of the city's finances also accrue to the landfill. Our general future concerns I think I've spelled out for you in the outline, and that is the need to meet the changing regulatory process in the environment that we're going to have to deal with respect to the DNR and EPA. How and that's a question mark are we going to meet the reduction goals, that is how are we going to get all of the users of the landfill to participate in the reduction program? thirdly is the rising cost of closure. Those are in today's dollars. We expect that to continue to accelerate not only to the regulatory process but simple means of inflation. And finally we need to develop some type of system where we can come to agreement with our users be it through contracts with you and/or some system of governance for the use of the landfill long into the future. We anticipate that the landfill's current life and current planning should be available for at least the next 20 years. So it's a long term decision and then there's the 30 year closure obligation. So the city of Iowa City faces a 50 year decision at the very least you as users of the landfill have an opportunity to participate in a 20 year decision. That's it, Sue. Horow/ First of all I wanted to know whether there were any questions, if anyone had, if you'd like to ask Steve. Don Swanson/ I have a question. You know that 78,000 ton a year limit, does that mean if the county generates more than they have to handle it (can't hear). Atkins/ That is in our license agreement as a permit holder. Practically speaking, it's a means by which the state DNR uses a flag for the purposes of reduction. To give you some idea, and as I recall Floyd, we just got the new permit, it wasn't too long ago. Last year our tonnage was 80,6000. And backing it up, it's run fairly constant to FY 90 when it was 92,000. Preceding year 102, 106, and then back down to 96. The most substantial difference in there was the fact that yard waste Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City councilmeeting of August 21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Page 6 was taken out of the tonnage. It's a number that's in our license agreement. We feel an obligation to pursue that. Practically speaking I'm not sure how the DNR would ever enforce the thing. If for example we lost a number of users and they moved on, that tonnage I'm sure would get calculated out in some fashion and while the total tonnage would decline with respect to its permitted tonnage in the landfill, fewer users we still have to meet the 50% goal. So we sort of can't get away from it here. Okay. Horow/ A1. A1 Axeen/ You said that 12% of the what goes in there now comes from. Atkins/ Right. Axeen/ Your residential users. Atkins/ That's correct. Yeah. Axeen/ Iowa City alone. Arkins/ Right. Axeen/ I thought was kind of high. But since you've instituted this two tier fee, you've probably got exact figures at what tonnage comes from other than Iowa City. Atkins/ I don't know if it'd ever be exact because those, we could probably get Coralville's because you provide municipal pick up. Axeen/ No but I mean all the generation outside of Iowa City because it. Arkins/ Oh. I think generally we fell confident that if you were going to draw, let me see if I can answer the question in this way for you, A1. Of all that goes into the landfill, the 80,000 tons, approximately 2/3 of that comes from the corporate limits of the city. That's business, industry, and our residential pick up. The remaining third is generated by everybody else. Okay. Horow/ Any other questions? Bolcum/ So in terms of the composition of the waste, what This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Page7 percentage then is commercial and industrial out of the total 80,000? Atkins/ Floyd or Brad, can you tell me? You will have to stand up so we can record it, Brad. Neumann/ Approximately 75% is residential or excuse me, business oriented. 25% is residential. Bolcum/ So that about 12% or so would be residential from everybody but Iowa city. So all the other communities combined is 12%. That seems high. Atkins/ I think it is also the character of the town. Some of the communities, I am trying to think of- Tiffin has no major industrial user. probably everything coming in is going to be overwhelmingly residential, wouldn't it Glenn? Potter/ Yeah. We are almost 50% on recycling. Axeem/ That seems-Iowa City has 3/4 of the residential population and people outside are generating as much as Iowa City. 1/4 of the people. I don't think the statistics are very accurate. Atkins/ Well, regardless-go ahead. Neumann/ You have to keep in mind that Iowa City, about half the population is multi-family units and that is considered commercial input. So that you have to keep in mind. Arkins/ Our residential pick up is four units or less and that is about 9,000 tons a year. And out housing stock is probably 50% multi-family. Neumann/ It is about 46%. Atkins/ Okay. And that is considered commercial. Kubby/ A1, is it your point that we have more population- Axeen/ You have more population. Our mix is about the same as yours. But it just doesn't seem-It seems like figure is (can't hear). I don't know. Atkins/ I am very confident of our residential figure on what we pick up. 9,500 tons, there abouts, on an annual basis and that would be- Thlsrepmsents only areasonably accuratetranscHptlon ofthelowaCi~ council meeting of August 21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Page 8 Woito! Definition of residential is different from yours. Atkins/ And each town is going to be different, yeah. / (Can't hear). Atkins/ We wanted to get this recorded, folks. You have to watch side conversations. Axeen/ It is the same definition as far we go. Horow/ I think that is important because each town has to figure out just exactly what their composition is in terms of how much they generate. Axeen/ I was just trying to get a general figure on how much was residential and how much we have some absolute control over and how much is outside of absolute control over where the waste stream comes from. Atkins/ Well, you have-It depends on what you chose to regulate also. You have to keep in mind that other than health and sanitation codes, to my knowledge none of the cities actually regulate how business and industry pick up. / (Can't hear). Atkins/ Yeah, you can. You can -franchises and contracts and the government has some control over this thing if you would choose to exercise that kind of power. Horow/ Any other-Karen? Kubby/ The 50% goal is based on a certain tonnage. Atkins/ Yes. Kubby/ And that doesn't account for any increase in population. Atkins/ No, it does not. Kubby/ So it is not-doesn't translate into a per capita amount of tonnage. Atkins/ It does in a sense that is how they calculate it but they- Kubby/ But not how your 50%, not your end point though. Even if our Thisrepresents only ereasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City councilmeeting of August 21,1995. W8082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Page 9 population grows 10% we still have the same tonnage goal based on our calculation and tonnage. Atkins/ As I understand it-As I understand it, they don't cut you slack on the tonnage correct? as population grows reduction. Is that Neumann/ The way that is-They figure in population. So they figure in growth. It is based on a per capita. Atkins/ Is that that 3.7 pounds per person per something per something per something when you come up with a number. Neumann/ There is a long formula and I think we are actually going to switch it around to incorporate a lot of economic impacts on the figure also. It is a California method that we are looking at implementing now. So it is a little more complicated than what we are using now but it population is taken into account whether it increases or decreases. our starting point in '88 was 106,000 tons. That was what we were measuring from. We don't have to get to 53,000 tons. That is based on a straight tonnage. They do allow for growth. Kubby/ How can we choose to formulate things differently than other landfills in Iowa? I thought that was something the state would dictate. Neumann/ They are allowing certain-You kind of use a couple of different methods and see which one does you better and that is what you turn into the DNR. They will allow certain allowances there. Horow/ Does anyone have any questions about the legal aspect of the material that you have in terms of what happens, what does it mean to have financial assurance over the next 30 years, how does that affect you? Has this come up at discussions with your council in terms of the clean up? In terms of the footprints? Axeen/ The impression was given and I know that was not necessarily true, is that the landfill was closed and we have been paying a higher rate and then not being a part of closure because we are not part of Iowa city. That is not absolutely true because if you are contributing, you are actually responsible. So, you never get off the hook. You just pay the higher rate as you go along is the impression we get. I understand the economics of it and that is probably one of the things I would feel better Thlsrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of August21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill about or everybody may feel better about that maybe it is time to look at who is running it not because you are running it bad. It is very cumbersome to look to Iowa City to make all of these decisions and live or die by these decisions when we can stand off and maybe the county governments are better are a better basis or maybe it is- Horow/ You can get into a whole 28E agreement, waste management authority- Axeen/ Create 28E agreements for waste management or hire a firmto come in. There is a lot of examples of that all over the country where they create an agency and hire a manager from Cedar Rapids (can't hear). Horow/ Or but the aspect of the management is the local elected officials get to set the policy and they get to understand more about what is going on. Axeen/ And maybe we are being-It is easy for us to get that off the table as far as things we have to discuss because it is your responsibility° It is ultimately ours too. Horow/ Well, it is something to think about. I mean the idea has been percolating around here for awhile. But I think- Axeen/ Maybe it is a matter of a county operation, not necessarily run by county government but- Horow/ A regional. Doug- Doug Morgan/ I had commercial and Do you know? a question about who-Is all of Iowa City's industrial waste come into this landfill now? Atkins/ To the nest of my knowledge. Morgan/ Is there anything mandated? Do they have to? Atkins/ No. Cannot do that. Control the waste, we cannot do that. But they do do that. Horow/ This is a waste, a legal aspect, that you can't control waste as to where it goes. Bolcum/ Steve, could you talk some about the costs at the landfill. I hear a lot of concerns about Iowa City being much more Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcrl~lon ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of August21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill expensive than other county's landfills in the immediate area and why those costs are what the~ are as they appear and the question about the enterprise fund. I have heard people raise concerns about Iowa City is making money on this landfill. That is fact it is subsidizing other city services. Is that true? Atkins/ No. Let me back into that. First of all, the books are open to anyone. We are fully audited every year. We have very healthy reserves. There is no question about that/ We invest those moneys. Those moneys are booked back toward the landfills investments. We are probably well ahead of most landfill operators in the creation of our reserve position to meet the financial assurance and in that we have no borrowing capacity other than the General Obligation debt of the city which I would recommend against because I don't think the general tax payers should bear the burden for this. We pay cash for everything. The city pays the same rate as anyone else with respect to- We charge all of our own departments the city rate. I don't know what else to tell you, Joe. I mean, it is all-We have- Bolcum/ So the Toxic Clean Up Day, the fund is a special dedicated fund. Last year it brought in $125,000. Atkins/ The Toxic Clean Up Day Fund is now flush , in good shape, because the last program didn't cost us as much. Bolcum/ That money is rolled over. Atkins/ Remains there. It remains there. It does not leave the landfill operations. Kubby/ And it is not used for anything other than toxic clean up. Atkins/ The Special Clean UP Reserve currently has a balance of about $100,000 and it is bringing it in at a faster rate than that. And the last clean up day was about $75,000 it cost us to run that. And it is very difficult to predict that and that is why-If we ever got out to that program those moneys would have to be rolled back into some other landfill operation. Horow/ Steve, if someone wanted to go to a different landfill, then is that a question to ask the jurisdiction who runs the landfill, how financially healthy they are? Atkins/ Well, I would think that if you, as a community, chose to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill go to another landfill, you are also creating a liability for yourself at that other landfill because your waste is being moved there. Now, the services that that landfill provides I don't know how they would choose. We are saying we extend those services to you as a routine part of your tipping fee. We do not have to have a Toxic Clean Up Day. You do not have to have some of the things we do. We choose to do that. But when you use the landfill, then you are entitled to use those services. Bolcum/ So, could you talk a little bit more about the tipping fee. Atkins/ The tipping fee, the cost: $38.00/ton $ .o5 $ .95 $ 1.50/ton $ 5.00/ton $10.00/ton I will just break it down. I will show you Tipping fee for disposal Paid to the state State surcharge-remains with landfill Toxic Clean Up Closure Costs-Iowa City Closure Costs-Non-Iowa City. The two rates are $48.50 and $53.50. Just so you can have- Again, to track in providing the new services. It is not like there is an army of people out there. In FY89 we had seven people. We now have 12. Since that time we have picked up yard waste, white goods, the other kinds of disposal activities which require coverage. Carol Casey/ Does that include the pick-up crews? Atkins/ No. about books. It is the landfill operation. It is all we are talking is landfill. Refuse Collection is a separate set of Tom / What is the difference between Iowa City paying for closure and then the other communities. Why is (can't hear)? Atkins/ Because we assume the liability, the responsibility for it. Horow/ Are there any other questions from any- Atkins/ Joe had some more questions. Axeen/ What you are saying is we will never assume liability for it? Atkins/ The way I understand the CERCLA law. You could still be Thisrepresents only ar~sonably accuratetranscri~lon ofthelowa CIw council meeting of August 21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill exposed but we are saying that we also are pledging our full faith behind the landfill. First one they are going to come to is the landfill owner operator. The difficulty of proving the CERCLA stepping back is going to give you substantial amount of protection because they are going to hit us right away because we are the landfill operator. That is one of the general complaints that I happen to have is that it is better to distribute that liability over, for example, the county as opposed to just having the municipality bear the burden for the thing. But it is not in the form of a contract One of the things we need to talk about is what kind of contractual relationships can we have to protect not only our interests but your as well. Woito/ As a clarification that the fees that you are paying is for closure, not clean up. Atkins/ That is true. It is closure, yeah. Post-closure could require- A change in regulations in post-closure could cost you some money. For example, the problem we had about four years ago was an $800,000 problem by the time we were done. Now that was all paid for out of your tipping fees. That can happen. Doug Morgan/ That was the question I had that in the event, you know, down the road in 20-30 years, your closure fees had not kept up and we don't have enough money (can't hear). And you go back to all these other towns that are contributing, if we were to be assessed, would that be based on the number of years and the tonnage that we contributed or would it be an equal type of assessment? Atkins/ We have not done that. None of that is committed. Or practically speaking I can't-Sturgis Ferry, do you know where that is down at the corner of Riverside Drive. Just to give you an example. It is an old landfill site. And the developer that was proceeding with that proposed development had to do certain studies. That landfill area was closed in the late 40's, '50. So 45 years ago. We had to pay half of the cost of doing the study in anticipation of that development. It wasn't a lot of money but the fact is 45 years later the records said you owned it. Now, could be have gone back and tried to track each and every-Well, there's the problem. Morgan/ The first town might pay maybe $10 closure fee if there was some reasonable assurance that they are not going to be hit with a $2-3 million deal down the road. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of August21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Atkins/ And part of creating the kind of reserves, Doug, that we need is an important part of that decision making because under the law we will invest those moneys that have to be kept in the reserve. Morgan/ Do you cap those funds? You can't switch them over? Atkins/ We use landfill-We will use landfill for cashflow. We will use it for some inhouse projects. It is our landfill. We keep the books. However, it is booked and repaid with interest whenever we use it. Horow/ I think Doug's question is good because what you then if you decide to use a different landfill will have to make sure the contract that you were signing to get into that landfill you will understand whether or not you will have that responsibility upon closure. Atkins/ And Doug, I don't know if we could ever protect you forever because of someone will-like what happened to us at Sturgis Ferry. Bolcum/ You can't sign away your liability through a contract? Horow/ No but the contract has to be clear so that each of the city councils understand that. Any other questions? Karen- Kubby/ The way we keep our records now when a private hauler picks up from one town in Johnson County and maybe stops at another town and then in another corporated area, we don't track-We don't know how many ton. Like one truck and one hauler picks up from different places and he comes to our landfill. Now we need to know is it in town or out of town because of that $5.00 difference. But we don't know which town. So we don't know exact tonnages coming in from which households. Right now we don't have the ability to track that stuff. Bolcum/ Do the towns know their tonnages? Axeen/ Refuse I am sure they do but what the private haulers- Bolcum/ No, I mean private. Your residential refuse. Russ Bailey/ You should know. Horow/ Hills says yes you should know. What, based on the contract you have got with the hauler? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995, WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill Bailey/ Right, you are paying so you should know what your tonnage is. Horow/ He says commercial and industrial have a different hauler so they really don't know the total amount. Bolcum/ I want to talk about the cost a little bit more because that continues to come up. The $38.00 per ton for disposal is probably in some cases, minus all those other charges, is still higher than other places. Is that a function of the age of this landfill and things that have gone wrong at this landfill that have been corrected. Atkins / go of No, it is not that, Joe. I mean, there has been very little wrong at the landfill. Our landfill is fairly new by some the landfill standards. Bolcum/ But we are pumping leachate from the landfill. Atkins/ Yes. Bolcum/ Most landfills in Iowa are not pumping leachate to treat. Atkins / True. Bolcum/ Most landfills in Iowa aren't paying very much attention to that at all. So are there costs associated with this tonnage, this $38.00, that are attributed to what I would argue Iowa City paying some attention to a potential problem. Atkins/ The leachate, the construction of a lift station, the leachate collection system is an obligation we choose to pump by force main to our treatment plant and treat is as a sewer waste. Some of the other more remote landfills, for example, don't have that benefit and have to haul it somewhere. So their costs are going to go up. Tom- Tom / It helps us in the long run anyway. Atkins/ Yt does, yeah. It helps the ground water table. It helps everybody involved in the operation of the landfill. I can only tell you that our costs are calculated out on a per ton and a tax basis, what are operational expenses are and again, the books are open to you. Doug Morgan/ Did I understand you to say your leachate that comes out of the landfill is pumped to the- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill Atkins/ To the treatment plant. That is correct. Yeah, we treat it as a waste. Morgan/ Does that reduce the possibility of clean up? Atkins/ Absolutely. Yeah, that is a very positive kind of service that I think that our landfill provides that others don't and thereby, from an environmental standpoint, I think we are going to have a far superior operation. Bolcum/ How old is our-How long has that operation at the current site? Arkins/ It was built in '72, Chuck? Yeah. And we estimate the 20 life. Keeping in mind the 20 year life is pretty much keeping the topography the way it is. We have discussed with DNR about going up. And depending upon what kind of topography you want to create, the DNR is a little nervous about that. But it is not uncommon to create maybe an even more attractive environment. We just don't know and those are things-If that happens, the landfill is good for even longer. Axeen/ Is some of the stress out there leachate? Are there problems like that caused because of development out there? Atkins/ I don't think so. I mean I have- Axeen/ Is that causing crowding in on it at all? Atkins/ No. Horow/ Not yet? Axeen/ At the time we wanted to do-the officers wanted to have firing range out there. Atkins/ Well, that is true. Back in the late '80s we discussed having a firing range out there. We had a very good spot for it. As one farmer described it to me, "I dug a bullet out of my cows butt once, I don't want that to happen again." So, with that, the whole firing range idea began to kind of fall apart. Are the airplanes still out there, Floyd? Yeah, the Flying Club or whatever it is, the little motorized. We do provide a spot for those folks. And I think that at the time that that debate occurred, there was a genuine concern. I am convinced we could have met all the safety standards. We were just trying to save some money by having our own range for This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill Fa~ this area. And we just dropped the idea after the colorful farmer description. Axeen/ I was just was wondering if residential development is closing in and it is going to cost us a higher amount? Arkins/ I think there is always that potential. We have pretty well designed the thing and the council has been pretty good about land purchases in and around it to protect the landfill as a buffer I think recognizing that is a significant resource and it we continue to reduce our volumes, there are not going to be any real need to expand. And if we can go up. There is a whole variety of options that we haven't even begun to use yet. Horow/ Is Coralville seeking to annex all the way down there? Bolcum/ Landfills are typically places where people want to live. Carol Casey/ Steve, what is the estimated life at this point? Arkins/ About 20 years. It should be good for about 20 years. Axeen/ Is that with the reduction? Arkins/ That is Department of Public Works educated guess and I think we built in population growth, reductions, the whole variety of factors. Could be 18, could be 22, yeah. I think generally we are pretty confident that 20 years. We are in pretty good shape on that. That is what I am saying. It becomes a generational issue. Clearly we have created an opportunity for the next generation to enjoy the same benefit that we have except a cleaner one. Glen Siders/ Steve, Your $50,000-70,000 closure costs, is that your post-closure costs? Arkins/ $50,000-70,000 per acre is the cost of closure and that is the four foot clay cap. That is the big ticket item you have to put on top of each cell to close the thing and the leachate, obviously, continues forever. Siders/ I was going to ask, is that $50,000-70,000, does that include the 30 years of monitoring and stuff that you have? Atkins/ It is more than monitoring, Glen. It is treating because the leachate will occur. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetronscrlptlon ofthelowe City council meeting of August21,1995, WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill Siders/ Is that all you have to do in your post-closure is monitor and- Atkins/ You have to close the thing, monitor it obviously to make sure there isn't any movement of the leachate, and then you have to treat that what you capture. And all the new cells, I don't think we are as concerned about because the liners that have been designed into it, the collection system. We have some cells out there that have been there for a long time. We have, in fact, we set up a small-it is about $200,000. It is a closure account because we have some cells closed under the old standards and so we set aside a cash just in case we might have to go back in and do something. Siders/ You mentioned the other fees, your closure costs are $5.00 and $10.00. And I am going to pick a number out of the air and average them $6.00-6.50 are probably 2/3s Iowa City. Okay. Roughly $500,00 a year is what you are bring in on that? Atkins/ Bringing in on that? Financial assurance next year will bring in $550,000. That is good, Glenn. Siders/ What do you have in the reserve now? Can you tell us that? Atkins/ Yeah, sure, in the Financial Assurance reserve? Of all of them? Okay, the Financial Assurance Reserve for the budget currently adopted by the council is $1.6 million. That is what we anticipate in case at the end of this FY. We expect it to grow at that $500,000 rate. So that by the, we budget three years at a time, the third year of our budget that should be about $2.8 million. So we are well on our way to meeting the 7. Now we also have an Improvement reserve which pays to build cells. So that number bounces around. And that number is currently at the $3 million. Now we are going to build a new cell so we are going to take a big hunk of that. I don't know about the leachate collection. So that number will drop dramatically. Siders/ At the end of 20 years when you close this thing and let's assume you have an excess of funds. What happens with that excess, that money? Arkins/ Since nobody in the room will probably be here in 50 years- Bolcum/ You are going to have to site a new landfill and that is going to be expensive. Thisrepresents only nreesonably accur~etranscriptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of August 21,1995, WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill Atkins/ I can only tell you from my professional experience. I have been through one landfill siting in my career. I never ever ever ever ever want to do that again. But I don't think there is any doubt that Joe's point is right on that if we close this landfill, there is always going to be a need for some landfill kind of services. You are going to have to site a new one. And whether it is the city does it or whatever system of governance, it is going to have to be done. Bolcum/ Will you back off once you get to $7 million? Will that- Arkins/ The $7 million is a floating number. That every two years we have to adjust that number based upon the formula provided for us by the DNR. And the $7 million is current dollars. I am assuming our investment income will be as good as anybody else in a government position. And we will have to sign a statement to them. What we have chosen to do is that I happen to believe is that cash is the best way to do it because it minimizes the risk to the city. During any given two year period we could write the DNR and say we pledge our credit rating to cover a portion of it and they will accept that. But I don't want-I cannot recommend to council to get into the habit of pledging our credit to meet everybody's else's problem. So we can do that. Bolcum/ So, could interest on that pot of money subsidize a lower landfill fee? Arkins/ Probably if our investment income was good and we have rampant inflation. We could probably do real well. We are not suggesting that. Dawn McCoy/ Are the tipping fees the same for commercial as they are for residential? Atkins/ The per ton, it is all the same, yeah. Kubby/ So we project our landfill taxes in the future and the money coming in kind of on this formula, projected population growth in the county, person per ton reduction in waste generated ends up at the landfill as a basis for operations for us as to what to charge, what services to offer. Atkins/ Yes. Kubby/ And so if those numbers change radically, whether it is population or whether it is tonnage coming in, meaning if Thls represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995, WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill people decide to use a private hauler that then hauls to another landfill, it is challenging for us to have stable services and stable environment there. If people choose to come back, we have reduced our equipment, we have reduced our employees. It just makes it very difficult. Atkins/ The back and forth and back and forth business thing, financially we couldn't tolerate. That would be the- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-98 SIDE 2 Arkins/ The $38.00 per ton was first approved in FY93. And 93, 94, 95, and 96 it has remained that way. The thing that we added was the financial assurance. And that was an obligation of the- we chose to do it this way but that was an obligation of the state. In the mean time, all those numbers have been constant. Kubby/ So one of the consequences can they go through in this situation if they choose to have their private haulers go to different landfills that those services that are available to Iowa City Landfill users won't be available to them like Toxic Clean Up Day. Atkins/ That's a matter of policy. As the city council is the ultimate authority on operating the landfill and the setting the policies, I would assume that if you don't pay, you don't play. And that's what we decided. Siders/ How would that be regulated? Do you any idea how that would be regulated? Atkins/ Well, I think. Siders/ Let's assume North Liberty contracts with a private hauler. So anybody in North Liberty wouldn't be eligible for Toxic CleanUp Day? Atkins/ Well, I'd like to think that I'm a reasonably creative person and I'll figure something out before too long that maybe it's issuing a pass, maybe making some kind of a- you hate to get into making it into overly restrictive on the users, but I think we could find a means by which to police it. Kubby/ I guess what we want to look at it the other way other. Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa City coun~lmeetlng of August 21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Atkins/ Absolutely. Kubby/ One of the advantages to the Iowa City landfill is that we've made a commitment to provide people with the service for any user,and we've had real good response. We don't know if there's going to be enough of those people coming back but we're trying to get the word out there that these services are available. (can't hear) Atkins/ I really don't want to do that, Glenn. Siders/ The only reason I mention this is because it could be an advantage to a city not to go with a private hauler because of this advantage. I mean, if you say that the people from North Liberty are black balled. Then, for that reason, it may be a positive why they would want to do it. Arkins/ Well, landfill is difficult enough. I really, the threat of a club over head doesn't- Axesn/ Another thing, when a private hauler comes to a business or an apartment complex and says. I'm going to do it for this amount of money, and the guy says I'm going to do it for this number and it's about 20% less, you know they end up taking the one that's less. And they're not asking where it's going. They don't want to know. Atkins/ And that's unfortunate A1, because- Axeen/ Yeah. I'm saying, this is the kind of competition that we get into on the big users. And it's probably a short term thing. Everything, all government costs the same to run every where and you get up and downs everywhere. So whatever was cheap over there run out, you know, and it comes back. But I'm just saying that it's going to happen and- Horow/ I know, and it already, I mean, it already has and that's why council wants to get us all together to really talk about this because it seems to me that councils need to recognize that we're sworn to protect the public health and safety of our citizens. So we have a legal responsibility ad infinitum for this sort of thing. A private hauler does not and the city's in Johnson County, I just felt very keenly needed to talk about this. I don't know whether your councils have talked about whether they would like to, you know, get some of their input into making some of the decisions at the landfill or not. That leads to an organizational structure, which I Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate trenscriptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of August 21,199~ WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill think would be great. Axeen/ Well, that's why it would that would be fine. Right now, I don't think any of the councils and I don't think the Iowa City council is, they recognize the problem and they understand it intimately because they're closer to the figures then we are, but they're not going to run around everywhere until somebody tells them who can pick up their waste. Horow/ Definitely they're not. That is your decision. Axeen/ But I don't know that the Iowa City council's going to do that. Are they? Horow/ What do you mean? Axeen/ Go around let's say to some apartment complex that they've hired a firm to haul away their garbage. Was it going to the right landfill? We're coming after you or something. Atkins/ That, as I understand the law, on the waste stream, if we collect it, we can designate the disposal site. Now, collection does not necessarily mean Floyd and his crew. Another community I served for example put out franchise agreement, carved the city up, bid it out, private haulers bid on it, the city I was serving we did the billing and the collection for them. They simply did the actual collecting of the waste and in return, they were required to take it to a certain landfill. At least you can do that. Axeen/ Isn't that exactly what the Supreme Court decisions says? Atkins/ No. My understanding is that we can do that in our own community. Is that correct, Linda? Did I understand. Woito/ Yes. Atkins/ Yeah. Axeen/ Like the City of Kalona could bring all their goods from commercial under the contract (can't understand). Atkins/ Yes. That's what I understand of what's printed. It's a matter of law. Horow/ It's just interstate that is not regulated. Is that right? Thisrepresents only areesonably accurate transcription of ~elowa City council meeting of August21,1995, WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Woito/ Well we always have the right to pick all of the waste in our own city. Right now we've chosen only to do residential and residential is defined as no more than four dwelling units. We can choose to pick up all the industrial and commercial. As a practical matter, we would simply bid it out. Horow/ In which case the contract would say, you must deliver it to our landfill. Atkins/ Susan. Horow/ Yes. Tom / I just had one question about liability. We bid out residential and basically contracted with the (can't hear) Iowa City. But what about the liability of the cities if they don't do commercial. Our definition of residential is two (can't hear) or less. Are we liable to the city the city then for the collection of our commercial and industrial and apartments gclng to Linn County anymore than we would be- Atkins/ Because you choose to regulate it? Tom / We chose- Arkins/ No. I said if you choose to regulate it, does it increase your liability? I would suspect the answer is yes. Tom / If we don't choose to regulate it, why are we not liable? Atkins/ Well, you are under the code if I recall that you have a health and sanitation requirement. I think what happens in this debate is that we forget the underlying motivation for the pickup of garbage is health and sanitation. We don't want people to keep this stuff in their garage. We want them to get rid of it. Unfortunately societally we've chosen to dispose of it in landfill. Well landfills screw our environment so it's an environmental issue as much as it's become a health and sanitation issue. So I suspect there's liability abounds. Bolcum/ But there probably wouldn't be CERCLA liability in that. If you are a generator, a hauler or a disposal site, you take on some liability. But if you are not regulating commercial waste- Iowa City isn't liable for what goes on at Proctor and Gamble and how they handle their waste because you don't pick it up and you don't regulate it. A private hauler- Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription oftbelows City council meeting of Augnst 21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill Atkins/ We regulate it in health and sanitation. Bolcum/ Sure but not from CERCLA. Not from superfund liability. Morgan/ Some of the (can't hear) would be more liable than the city? Bolcum/ That is right. Kubby/ The generator would be. Atkins/ Then the landfill accepts it as the final resting place. Then I would suspect the liability would transfer. When we had the problems several years ago and we found this particular chemical, there is no way we could prove who put it there. Quite frankly, just an example of how the regulations have changed and help me out on this. It wasn't but a few years ago that the disposal of some hazardous chemicals was taken to the landfill, poke a hole in the drum, and just let it drain and that is how it use to be disposed of. I mean we don't do that anymore. That is a 20 year old landfill. That stuff is there. Morgan/ Like someone said before. If a private hauler comes in with a load of trash, you know if it is from Iowa City or not Iowa City but you can't-don't know if it necessarily some from Kalona, some from Riverside- Atkins/ Right. Kubby/ The other possibility that communities decided to pass certain kinds of agreements with their local haulers that a hauler would have to change the way they do pickup and they will have to do all of Riverside to get residential and commercial. Then we will know it is from Riverside and then we can track that. And that is a possibility in the future. Tom / If that comes there will be for North Liberty, if Iowa City does that, it will cost us more because they are going to go to the landfill more often with less- Atkins/ Well, regulations such as that are likely to drive the cost up. Then on the other hand, if you combine I would think your costs would go down. Kubby/ If you combine residential and commercial you mean? Is that what you are saying? Thisrepresents only a reasonably accuratetranscrlption ofthelowa City council meeting of August21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Atkins/ Just combine a couple of cities together on a contract. Any time you can combine I would suspect you can draw it down. Horow/ A1. Axeen/ I think Steve said something just a little bit ago that this way of handling things is all kind of crazy. And we are right and I think we should be- If we are thinking this is 20 years, we best be ready for what we are going to be doing later and it is not going to be very (can't hear) obviously. Probably not. When you talk about looking for another site, I don't think we will look for another site ever. Arkins/ Well, even if you went, for example, to incineration which is low on the priority list. It is right above landfill. You have to find a place to dispose of the ash. There are-I think you are always going to have some landfilling. I suspect in time-Until, quite frankly, for example the federal government changes their policy. Right now the burden of waste disposal and waste reduction rests with local governments. When, in my opinion, it should rest with the manufactures of the original product to begin with. In a couple instances we do that. That if packaging laws were different and it is a level playing field, I think it woul be fine. Right now we have the burden. We are the giant janitor. We are the ones that bear the burden for that. I don't happen to think it is fair. But until that law changes, that is kind of what we are stuck with. Kubby/ That is why we really have to state that it is on the Solid Waste Planner's work list is to talk about some kind of regional educational program so that we have some kind of consistent message all throughout the county about how to-As that generator, we are all generators Carol said. She started out that way. How we can (can't hear) like Tiffin. You said Tiffin has taken responsibility, individual residents, and you are at the 50% level already. What can we learn from Tiffin, everyone of us. And how do we build programs consistent that we all contribute to here in JCCOG and help. Since the packaging ordinance, there is no community here has decided to do one because some people think it is (can't hear). What we can do is on the consumption as well as the disposal side. So that is a whole other area we can be working on together on. Horow/ Okay. Roger Stone/ It seems to me that one of the premises we are working on tonight here is that government should get together and Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City councilmeetlng of August 21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill decide we are going to eliminate private enterprise from handling the solid waste. We are really only talking about solid waste. If someone is slipping hazardous waste in, then you are talking about CERCLA problems. But if you don't have hazardous waste in your waste stream, which the City of Iowa City shouldn't be taking and the private haulers shouldn't be taking and the city shouldn't be getting independently. Any event, assuming that you have solid waste is what you are suppose to be dealing with, the question is should the governments get together and agree to pay a higher price for the same service that they can get cheaper and one of the arguments seems to be why yes because we are eliminating risk to the cities. Don't you have to have some facts to establish that premise that yes, by getting the waste stream to private enterprise, having them handle it for you, add it to your price. Don't you really have to have some facts that establishes, yes, you are facing a risk that you otherwise wouldn't face if you took your waste to Iowa City. All that assumes that (can't hear). Atkins/ I don't agree with you on that. We are not attempting to put private haulers out of business. We are proposing to regulate. If that is what we are talking about, simply proposing to regulate. It will not put them out of business. I am not proposing to my city council that the City of Iowa City, through our pick up program, hire our city employees to go pick up waste. I am not suggesting that at all. But I am saying I think a system of regulation makes some sense and then through competition that is how you choose the private. Stone/ You are proposing that no waste be permitted to go out of the State of Iowa. That is all comes to the Iowa City landfill. Atkins/ I didn't say that. Horow/ I started this meeting out by saying that was not the purpose of this. This is not for decision making. This is an informational meeting to explain the pros and cons to each of the cities and their city councils in terms of what it means to either choose a private hauler that go out of the state or to choose a private hauler to come here or something like that. This is not-no, I don't want to leave anyone to think that. Stone/ Well, I guess I didn't understand the premise of that earlier letters and the early discussion which I thought was Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of August 21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill if you choose to come to the Iowa City landfill that then there will be a 28E agreement that will be proposed to you that will allow you to bring your waste to the Iowa City landfill to the exclusion of having it hauled elsewhere. And they don't want people to opt in and out of the agreements. Horow/ That is very real. But it doesn't exclude the private haulers from taking-from still doing the hauling. Kubby/ I think (can't hear). I mean each individual community is going to have to in their own way assess the risk of the choices that they make. So I understand your point. Stone/ I don't understand the answer. Maybe you can help me. So, let's take a city of, for example, Coralville that enters into the 28E agreement that you are proposing. Okay. And Coralville elects to take their waste to the Iowa City landfill with that agreement and the cities have all made the agreement that says they are going to do that. Now, how does private enterprise have the right to take any of that solid waste to a landfill outside of the State of Iowa on that agreement that you are proposing with city. Horow/ They could do it if they- Atkins/ No, we have no proposed agreements. 28E is a common term which we all use and I think most of you are familiar with it. The form of the agreement, that is yet to be decided. Stone/ I was talking about the proposed agreement. Arkins/ We have no proposed agreement. Woito/ There is no proposed agreement. Stone/ Well, okay. I mean I can read the letter, too. What you are contemplating is a possibility of entering into an agreement that suggests that all cities that are at this table elect whether or not to come and take their solid waste to the City of Iowa City landfill and- Woito/ No, that is not the case. Stone/ I don't understand what discussions is it you are talking about then. Woito/ The discussion is about what the advantages are to the towns Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuratetranscrlption ofthelowa City council meethlg of August21,1095. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill and county of using the City of Iowa City's landfill. Stone/ But not permitting the cities to decide that any of those ways can be used by private enterprise- Woito/ That is up to the cities. Stone/ And there is no exclusive arrangement proposed whereby the city elects either to use the Iowa City landfill and take all of its waste there and doesn't take any of its waste outside? Woito/ That is correct. There is no exclusivity whatsoever. It is unconstitutional. Stone/ That is my point which is- Woito/ I am perfectly aware of that. Stone/ That the cities cannot make such an agreement that would in any way limit the export of the waste out side to- Woito/ That is true. Horow/ We know that. Axeen/ You know, when we are talking about liabilities, etc., and now I know it is always a moving target as to what hazardous waste and whether they are talking about this CERCLA, following people, track it and so on, etc. That is for hazardous materials. Materials that shouldn't have been allowed in the solid waste at the time. so , if your solid waste is in fact clean no matter where it goes it is not going to create any great economic (can't hear) on you. Bolcum/ If it is a brand new landfill. Atkins/ The current landfill cells I feel 100 times more confident. Simply because we collect all that leachate and get it treated. Of course coming out the other end when we do the treatment process we get dinged on our effluent that goes out. So, we know where that comes from. But, you know- Axeen/ A lot of the liability of problems are for the hazardous conditions that may arise. If you are doing the process better, you know, your chances of that are less. I know as well as you all know that you are getting dumped on some. It just happens. I mean there are a lot of like batteries that we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill can't take to the landfill but they are going some place. There is no place else for them. That is where they end up obviously. so, there can be some liabilities. Whether there are- Horow/ I am sure a (can't hear) will try to do a probability modeling technique on this at some point. But they haven't done one yet. The point is well taken and that is something that we- Axeen/ Maybe and the interim answer also is do a better control of the stream going in. Whether it be like some bigger cities that have more volume have gone to everything just comes in recyclables, everything just comes in and it has been torn apart and everything is taken out of it that can be possibly recycled. Arkins/ You know, just as an aside to that also. We have postponed any further planning-We were planning to build our own hazardous waste one spot here in town where we encourage folks to bring everything to it on a routine basis. We have kind of postponed that and the reason that we have postponed it is that we don't have the financing, the underlying financing, to make sure that we know that everybody is going to be involved in the thing. That is another $500,000 decision plus staffing to run that thing and that would go a long way to helping resolve that problem even further. Bolcum/ Now landfills are created equally. I think your sense about the concern about the possibility of transfer stations taking 20-30-40% of the waste out of state. You are reading this clearly I think. Iowa City has some costs because they have got an older landfill. The site in Milan is about 9 years old. They don't have nearly the costs this site does in terms of the future liability because there are things in our landfill in Iowa City that we never put in there today. That we are pumping to the sewer treatment plant everyday, industrial waste that was deposited there that shouldn't have been° So, you have got users that have used that landfill and now the proposal comes along that would cut your disposal cost and ship it and make it somebody else's problem over in Illinois. It seems to me that there should be some ethical responsibility to hang in there with this site even though the costs are more. Maybe this isn't the business equation you know the waste ought to go to the cheapest place and let the private folks deal with it. Iowa City is trying to do a responsible thing in managing this site. There are some cost Thisrepresents only areesonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of August21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill to do that. Stone/ My question was it seemed that one of the premises of the discussion was that by taking your solid waste out of the state you were creating a risk to the cities that you wouldn't have same risk to Iowa City. Therefore, you should pay the extra part of your tipping fee to help manage that risk. That is what I heard for the first part of the discussion. And my question initially was what facts do you know that support that the exportable waste out of the state to an institution such like Landfill in Illinois creates one cent more risk for any of the cities which you are asking to make an agreement. Bolcum/ That is probably a small consideration. I think the current risk that cities and haulers and industry have, the current liability that they have at the existing site is substantial and they may have a smaller risk at a new site because the waste stream is theoretically cleaner because that site is not a hazardous landfill. But somehow they should continue to be present and supportive of their past practices are our current site in Johnson County. So the liability thing may be a moot point but there is some ethical consideration it seems to me to business and communities to hang with them. To hang with this site they felt more than comfortable using for all these years. Stone/ If I had an industry or community that had contributed to a hazardous waste problem at the Iowa City landfill, then your argument that yes, you need to stick in there and help us clean up the hazardous waste that came in and put here 20 years ago by somebody else might hit me a little differently. But unless you are a person that has already contributed to that hazardous waste problem that is in that city landfill, why would you now decide that yes I am willing to pay more to help clean up what may be a problem. The hazardous waste at the Iowa City landfill doesn't have that experience at a different landfill. Horow/ I guess I see this more from a different level at a regional cooperation of neighboring communities than the question. I understand the question that you are asking and it is from a business point of view a very prudent question. We are approaching this from merely a regional Johnson County and two outside communities. stone/ The question I have which I raise because the letter was Thisrepresents only areasonably accur~etranscriptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of August21,1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill sent. I just want a clarification which the letter says we want all participating jurisdictions to require by ordinance all waste to be directed to the Iowa City landfill. Horow/ We would. Atkins/ I, in a matter of preference- Stone/ What you plan to do? Atkins/ I can't make them pass ordinances. Only they can pass ordinances. Now, if they choose to do that I think that is all the better for the operations of the Iowa City- But I can't make them do that. Horow/ This meeting, as far as we are concerned is for city councils to have a greater understanding of what is involved. Either going with a private hauler to a different landfill outside the state or maintaining where they come right now but with a private hauler. It is an informational meeting for the city councils to make that decision. We can't do that for them. Bolcum/ Is everybody clear about the transfer station because we are kind of talking about that? Russ Bailey/ I hope that this meeting this evening is nothing more than the City of Iowa City making their views, period. And as mayors of our communities we will invite whatever apposition that is out there. I mean all of a sudden we are getting invited to a meeting of your landfill that you know, a few years ago, didn't really involve us. Now all of a sudden now we are somebody. So I think it is important that we hear more than just one side of a story. That is the only reason we are here from Hills. I am just here to hear this and which other parties that are in this room that want to present their side of it, we meet every other Monday. Morgan/ This question, (can't hear) says we want all participating jurisdictions to require by ordinance that all waste be directed to the Iowa City landfill. Is that just residential waste or all commercial and business? Atkins/ If you are asking if this is my preference I think as a matter of preference then we have a manageable waste stream. You do internally within your community and also we know it is coming into the landfill. I can't require you to do it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill Morgan/ I am just saying you are kind of asking that we would- Horow/ Your basic sanitation regulation would be the basis from which you make sure that everything would be (can't hear). Don Swanson/ Iowa City is looking at some (can't hear). Atkins/ We have not and the reason that we have not done that is that the general operations of the landfill now have been reasonably satisfactory. But there runs a risk because we provide a service to you all and you decide to pull it, that changes the whole method of planning for our landfill. Quite frankly. I am not real sure what I would recommend of the council in the form of operational changes until I know for sure who is going to be there. Swanson/ Maybe I have lost track of what you are saying. Seems like the commercial and industrial waste from Iowa City itself is a large percentage than all the other communities. You want the stability that that be- Atkins/ And I agree with you, yes. Kubby/ And that is a policy issue the city council of Iowa City has to deal with like you all have to deal with. Atkins/ You are absolutely correct, we need to do that. Swanson/ Certainly for our individual communities for us to have such an ordinance and Iowa City didn't- Glen Potter/ I think we should be thinking about recycling. You said that for every two, a duplex or four-plex, you pick up solid waste and recycling. What about these apartment owners and stuff like that. Why not give them a bin and (can't hear). Atkins/ I am agreeing with you. We just finished a study- Potter/ (Can't hear). We have been doing it for years. Atkins/ We just finished doing a study of a representative sample of some and the report hasn't been finished yet. I don't know what the results are going to be but the specific intent was how in the world do you get the multi-family involved. You are right on the point. I just don't have the answers for you. Potter/ (Can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995. WS082195 August 21, 1995 . Council Work Session-Landfill Morgan/ (Can't hear). Very little recycling was done. Horow/ We don't have plastic bags bigger enough for the sofas on the curb. Potter/ (Can't hear). Bolcum/ It seems to me that communities in Johnson County have got a really responsible job, each of them in dealing with their waste and it seems ironic that we are talking about a proposal that now in the county where people are taking care of their problems to begin to shift our waste over to Illinois and make it somebody else's problem. I would find it really difficult to see the city were looking at taking Rock Island's waste or Peoria's waste whether or not people would sit still for that. I think all heck would break loose. There is something to be said for taking care of our own problems here in this county as opposed to shipping it somewhere else because it is $5.00 cheaper. Axeen/ There is amount of waste that is going to Cedar Rapids an doing to Iowa County right now. So, just picking out one other end is not really a good characterization I don't think. Kubby/ Although we may end up- Axeen/ You have got a basic cost of $38.00 and it has been that way for a long time. Do you know what their basic cost if you get rid of all the other add OhS that they have to pay to it. Atkins/ Who is that you are asking about, A1. Axeen/ Like Cedar Rapids. Atkins/ We can find out for you. In fact we can prepare something and send it out to you. The other area landfills- Axeen/ You have done that. Neumann/ In the six county regional I want to say in the 40's somewhere. Even in some of the smaller counties. I believe those towns are just about as high as here and they have (can't hear). Axeen/ And Iowa County is less? Neumann/ Not substantially. All of them are going up. They are not This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 21, 1995, WS082195 August 21, 1995 Council Work Session-Landfill as high maybe but they are very close. I have got the numbers in my office. Horow/ Iowa County doesn't have a landfill. They haul this- Morgan/ (can't hear). Horow/ That is right. Washington is the tri-County. Carol Casey/ I would have to agree that, in principle, that the public utility in Iowa City, the landfill, that can cause considerable financial drain to all of us if it isn't managed properly or if a high percentage of the waste that is going in right now leaves it before its useful life. That we as a community should have the interest in perpetuating it through its useful life and protecting whatever system that it would take to keep it together. understandably in 20 years we might all be dealing with the private sector for the disposal of waste. But we do have a public responsibility right now. Kubby/ The other thing that is really important is that as each community begins discussing these issues more and as questions-That we have landfill staff that you are paying for through your tipping fees and that those people are available to you to ask questions, that our city manager will be available, to not hesitate in any ways, to call if you have questions about details. Horow/ That is a good question. I mean we deliberately sent the letter to N & N sanitation tonight because I knew that this issue was of interest to them and so if any of your city councils want a discussion like this and you have private haulers there let us know and we will certainly be able to send Mr. Palkey or Mr. Neumann to give either if something isn't known to give Iowa City's position on. I am sure they wouldn't mind going. Are there any other questions that are from the public or from mayors? I really appreciated you coming and I do hope that this can work into greater regional cooperation within the county and Riverside and Kalona. 28E agreement or solid waste management authority has been talked about in various areas around here. Maybe it is time for it, maybe it is not. If we can get our city councils to talk about it more, I think it would be useful. Thank you very very much for coming. Adjourned: 8:30 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate ~ranscrlptlon of the iowa City council maetlng of August 21, 1995. WS082195