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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-10-23 TranscriptionOctober 23, 1995 Council Work Session 6:00 PM Council: Horow, Kubby, Lehman, Nov, Throg, Pigott (6:15 PM), Baker (6:20 PM). Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Miklo, Fosse, Denney, Franklin, Kugler, Boothroy, Schoon, Davidson. Tapes: 95-120, Side 2; 95-122, all. Review Zoning Matters 95-20 S2 ITEN NO. 6a. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by adopting a Sensitive Areas Ordinance to regulate development on properties containing environmentally sensitive features, including wetlands, stream corridors, steep slopes, wooded areas, hydric soils, prairie remnants and archaeological sites. Miklo/ A more comprehensive ordinance that would require planned developments in all environmentally sensitive areas .... That is the ordinance that is before you ..... It was drafted... representatives from the development community, environmentalists, citizens at large, two members of P/Z Commission, Riverfront and Natural Areas Commission. I have a few slides that .... I have a few slides that will briefly illustrate the ordinance (presents slides) ..... The proposed ordinance would regulate wetlands based on the Army Corp of Engineers definition of wetlands .... also allows for reduction of the buffer... also provides for compensation of wetlands ..... elsewhere... The recreated wetland would have to be larger than the wetland that was destroyed. The ordinance also regulates stream corridors and requires a buffer... prevent development right up to the edge of the stream .... The ordinance proposes .... buffers ..... The idea of the ordinance is to have gradients of different buffer requirements. The Iowa River has a 50 foot buffer requirement on each side ..... The ordinance also regulates steep slopes. Again, there are three grades of slope: 18-15%; 25-40% and 40% or greater .... As slope increases the degree of review increases as well .... Slopes over 40% would be protected slopes and development couldn't occur ...... otherwise grading and erosion control would apply. The ordinance also regulates woodlands .... most of our woodlands are found in conjunction with steep slopes .... Ordinance defines woodlands as areas of two acres or larger that have more than 200 trees per acre. For s.f. development... encourages that 50% of the woodlands be preserved on site and that development occurs away from the wooded portion of the property .... For multi-family, Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 2 commercial and industrial it encourages that 20% of the woodlands be preserved. It also recognizes that in some instances it might be possible to adhere to these percentages ... allows compensated trees be planted elsewhere on the property of on public lands .... this is an example .... The idea and the provision in the ordinance allows a concentration of density away from the environmentally sensitive features ..... The ordinance recognizes that the typical subdivision design that we experience here in Iowa City may not be appropriate in environmentally sensitive areas ..... The ordinance provides for reduction in city infrastructure ..... Therefore the environmental features of the property can be saved ..... This is an example of an older Iowa City neighborhood ..... We also have new examples. This is on Scott Blvd ..... Point is that you can still have fairly dense development and a pleasing streetscape ..... there are other methods of creating compact development and still having access to the street ..... Longfellow neighborhood ..... The rear of these lots have Ralston Creek running through them ..... point of the ordinance is to allow development near this areas but to preserve them in the qualities that we appreciate in Iowa City. Kubby/ .... one of the most important elements... is to make it easy for people ..... to understand this .... step in the right direction of making sure lay people can read it and understand it the first time they read it. Is there a way for us to develop some kind of a checklist or a chart ..... to check to make sure everything is in line? Miklo/ I think if the ordinance passes we can certainly look into that .... Kubby/ I would really support us doing that... Lehman/ I really would to... included is the list of exemptions .... Some of these exemptions are rather significant .... Horow/ It would probably help council to be able to talk to people who call us about this ...... Miklo/ .... If you have a business that might have a sensitive area in the rear portion of the property, you go to sell it to another business, you are not required to get city approval according to this ordinance. Kubby/ You don't have to follow the Sensitive Areas Ordinance just This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 23, 1995. WS102395 October 23, because of Lehman/ The new Miklo/ Nov/ 1995 Council Work Session a change in ownership. owner would have to comply. If 'they apply for a building permit .... Page 3 Lehman/ ...new owner does not have to comply unless he makes a change. Nov/ Horow/ ..... Miklo/ You are raising a good point. Our brochures explain what the ordinance does regulate .... Horow/ .... people just really build on something they don't understand and blow it out of proportion. Throg/ A couple of things I am struck by .... idea is to formulate an ordinance that protects environmentally sensitive features ... in a way that accommqdates development and creates livable neighborhoods [Tape Problems] One other thing I want to mention was the development guidelines at the end of the ordinance provide a great deal of flexibility to developers ..... I think just opens up possibilities .... Kubby/ I am a little confused about the woodlands section. I understand there are other sensitive features that you have to go through more onerous process than if there aren't other sensitive areas ..... groves of trees... I am not sure how groves of trees that are not two acres in size or 200 trees per acre are protected by this ordinance. Miklo/ Charlie Denhey... helped the Committee write that section Kubby/ Tell me what page you are on. Denney/ .... recall Galway Hills Subdivision Plat .... important to protect small groups of trees .... The idea is through the site Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetingofOctober23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 4 plan process that a grove of trees which is at least ten trees, 12 inches in diameter that is identified by ~ubdivision plat or site plan and that methods to protect that grove... make sure that at least part of it remains and methods of protection are shown on the plan. It is not as high of level of protection that is required for the woodland area but it does give some important to those in the grove and says they need to be accounted for in the planning and site plan process Kubby/ Denney/ Kubby/ If the developer said this isn't possible for me to do what I want to do .... I want to take them down. Do we have the power to say no? .... Denney/ It doesn't say that. It gives a little bit more leverage to the staff and the city to try and have that protected. But in the end it does not require it. Kubby/ ... Miklo/ Kubby/ But it gives you flexibility... Denney/ We would accommodate that in hopes the development that had an Open Space Requirement maybe it could part of where the groves would be located. That kind of thing. Horow/ Nov/ On page 4 where you are defining slope it says, "but not approved by the city." What does that mean? Denney/ That was included because there are cases... storm water detention facility .... city has signed off on an engineering plan that approved that development and that slope. We didn't want to regulate those things because people have already been through the city process and had those approved .... Horow/ For now on would the city be responsible for this definition of slope when it is dealing with construction .... Denney/ Right. Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuratetranscriptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 5 Nov/ ..... add on at the end that a storm water basin which has been approved by the city is exempted from this definition .... make it clear ..... Miklo/ ...may be on the edge of a roadway .... Nov/ Give four examples of something that has been approved by the city and therefore exempt. Lehman/ How much do you think over the last 5-6 years an ordinance like this would have changed a development .... ? Miklo/ I think there might have been subdivisions that were designed differently ..... Lehman/ What I am really interested in .... contractors have really tried to preserve as many trees... It may not have nearly the impact that some folks think it is going to have. Kubby/ ..... places on South Gilbert Street... are some examples of poor development .... Lehman/ I think a very small percentage... Pigott/ ...may have a positive end result on their property... Kubby/ ...a lot of the infill lots within the city limits have environmental features on them .... they have been more challenging .... that may be the next phase of development .... Horow/ Bob .... wondered if we include this reasonable use exemption clause in conjunction with the environmental regs in order to avoid any law suits? Miklo/ There is a provision at the end of the ordinance ..... that does provide the opportunity for someone who is not able to put together a plan .... to appeal to the Board of Adjustment with a plan. Woito/ It is throughout the ordinance says we are going to limit it reasonable (can't hear). in various places where it unless it would prevent Throg/ Horow/ Other question I had was the enforcement of it ..... What actual penalties are we proposing to bring if someone does This represents only a reasonably accurate transcrlptlon of the Iowa City council meeting of October 23, 1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 6 violate .... Miklo/ These would be the same as the environmental infractions .... under the Zoning Ordinance .... Woito/ In order to qualify this as an environmental infraction we have to send this ordinance to the DNR and have them consult (can't hear). They have never denied anything that we have sent them. Kubby/ (Tape Problems). Woito/ That is because we always reference the standard language in the entire city code which is simple misdemeanor, municipal infractions and environmental impact. Kubby/ Horow/ Throg/ Clarity of the ordinance and the flexibility that it provides .... that we wouldn't .... have to think about enforcement .... Woito/ I think there is a lot of flexibility in it ..... Horow/ This is strictly for having the p.h ..... Nov/ Franklin/ I would like to call your attention to a memo that I think was in your information packet about staffing. Doug and Rick are here this evening if you have any questions about that. Kubby/ I am interested in...possibility... maybe we don't need a staffer in HIS and one in Engineering. Maybe we need a hybrid person ..... Have maybe one new staff person that would hook the departments together. Throg/ I actually understood Rick Fosse's memo to be along those lines .... Fosse/ The inspector would be a hybrid .... engineer would be an engineer .... There is a lot of other work to be done as well and if we don't have a constant flow of these permits there are other uses that we can put that engineer to. This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 23. 1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 7 Nov/ So it is two people? Fosse/ Yes. Woito/ Inspection and in Engineering? Fosse/ Inspector would have very specific training for the inspection aspect of it. For the engineering review we would do a general train to our entire engineering staff so as developments come in we can assign those as workloads permit .... When complex developments come in such Saddlebrook, those may be very well best handled by a specialized consultant outside of the city staff ..... Horow/ What would be the use of having a specifically trained environmental engineer on your staff? ..... Fosse/ The intent would not to have more specifically trained environmental engineer but rather than to give all of our engineers some environmental training so that they can handle the beginning and moderate level type applications ..... People with those talents would be expensive to keep on our staff Horow/ You have lost me Rick. Woito/ Do you want a civil engineer or not? Fosse/ Yes. Throg/ ...all the engineers would be trained .... So that new civil engineer would not be the environmental engineer. Horow/ Oh, I see ..... Kubby/ So I guess I am not in the position yet to say if I say yes to this ordinance I would be saying yes to two full time staff people .... I want to be able to explore some other options Horow/ Okay, let's find out what happens at the p.h ....... Probably have to continue this based on what we hear .... Nov/ I think the staff and the committee did a terrific job here .... There are two places here where we say the purpose of the regulations are to recognize the goals. I think that recognize is a good one .... use a better word, say preserve the value This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 23, 1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 8 and we would get more firmness in our plans and h., page 11, stream corridors. It says the purpose of regulating development in and around stream corridors ..... I think we should say preserve the value of stream corridors. Something stronger than recognize ..... This occurs throughout on page 15 for prairie remnants ...... should say preserve the value ..... In another place there is a lot of verbiage that mentions invasive species. Do we ever define invasive species? Woito/ It is a biological term of art. Nov/ Do we then defer this to an engineer of some sort? / (Can't hear). Nov/ Okay. All right. I have some reservation about the encouragement of rear lanes and hybrid streets ...... To me that is defeating some of this purpose .... We are creating more impermeable surfaces, larger storm water basins, and I don't see the real advantage of it ..... Miklo/ The models that we looked at in formulating that section dealt with the esthetics of the street ...... Increased density occurs when you narrow the lot and if you narrow the lot .... to 25 feet and put a two car garage, the entire street would be .... have a very narrow area for a front door going into the house. The only way around that is to move the vehicles to the back ...... Nov/ 25 feet of pavement in the front and 16 feet of pavement in the back. I don't see what we have gained. Miklo/ Reduce the frontage .... Kubby/ Miklo/ It does result in slightly more paving in the analysis that we did ..... Nov/ I do have some problem with reducing the play area of the backyard for my children because we need an alley ..... Miklo/ ...There are alternatives... illustrations on page 18 .... developer with an alley .... Page 20... alternative on where garages might be located ..... The ordinance was drafted to provide either or. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 23, 1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 9 Horow/ .... if everyone has two cars, where are these cars going to be. If one is in the driveway and one is in the street, are we able to have any parking in the streets? Miklo/ If you went to option of not having the alley it would be difficult depending on the width of the lot. The situation would be different if we continued with the wider lots ..... Nov/ You might want to think about an unpaved driveway or something like that .... Lehman/ Miklo/ With smaller lots the driveways become shorter... Horow/ Are there any other specific questions to staff? Kubby/ Yes... issues brought up by community members about a couple of major things in the ordinance about how the determinations is made .... as to whether somebody's buffer gets reduced under what conditions .... talk about that ..... Horow/ We have got 15 minutes to go before UHts people get here Throg/ Kubby/ There is a section in the woodlands ordinance about CI-1 zoning only having to keep 10% of the wooded area and I just did not understand why that was so little ..... Denney/ In looking at other ordinances .... the amount of trees to be retained is tied to density and it is felt that as the density and intensity of the zone increases there doesn't need to be as much retention ..... Kubby/ ...Have we then looked at areas of different zoning .... the zoning needs to be changed because of that rationale .... Denney/ ..I don't think there are many properties with C or I zoning that has significant woodlands on it .... orow/ ITEM ~0. 6b. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by conditionally changing the use regulations on an approximate 2.02 acre tract of land located east of Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowaCltycouncilmeetlngofOctober23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 10 Lakeside Drive and south of Highway 6 from ID-RS, Interim Development Single-Family Residential, to RM-12, Low Density, Multi-Family Residential. (REZ95-0012) (Second Consideration) ITEM NO. Consider a resolution for final plat approval of Kennedy's Waterfront Addition, Part Three, a 31.23 acre, 11-1ot commercial subdivision located south of Highway 1 between Gilbert Street and the Iowa River. (SUB95-0026) Miklo/ Our next item is Kennedy's Waterfront and we have a letter asking that that be deferred until November 7. We are still working on legal papers ..... ITEM NO. 6d. Consider a resolution for final plat approval of East Hill Subdivision, a 13.04 acre, 36-1ot residential subdivision located north of Muscatine Avenue, west of Dover Street and Perry Court. (SUB95-0027) Miklo/ ... Woito/ Miklo/ There is a minor correction that we believe we will have tomorrow before the meeting. ITEM NO. 6e. Consider a resolution for approval of the preliminary and final plats of Windsor Ridge - Part Six, a resubdivision of Tract "A," Windsor Ridge - Part One, and Outlot "A," Windsor Ridge - Part Three, a 7.8 acre, seven-lot residential subdivision with two outlots located north of American Legion Road and west of Arlington Drive. (SUB95-0025) Miklo/ Preliminary and final plats ..... We have word from the Secretary of State that the annexation has been approved and the legal papers and construction plans have been approved .... anticipating...before the meeting. Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofOctober23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 11 Agenda Addition - 9a. and 9b. 95-120 S2 Karr/ We have an addition to tomorrow night's agenda. I would just like to note it for the record. #9 on your agenda is the p.h. on resolution to convey s.f. dwellings at the Water Plant, the two houses .... We would like to make that p.h. #9a and add a #9b, resolution authorizing conveyance. We will be receiving bids at 9:00 AM tomorrow morning ..... Thlsrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthotowa City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 12 ITEM NO. Horow/ 4 f (7) -Letter from Bob Burns 95-120 S2 Franklin/ You received a letter from Bob Burns regarding the rezoning in Dubuque Road. That went to the P/Z Commission... they deferred it pending resolution of the council's policy on housing. Mr. Burns is up against three deadlines, one of which we are imposing for the use of the CDBG and HOME funds ..... Applications for low income tax credits... has to have that in by a date in December and the purchase option is up January 9. What he is asking you to do is to kind of resolve the quandaries of where he is suppose to go with this next and would like to get a vote on this project ..... Given that...the housing policy is imminent in its resolution... suggest the council to ask the P/Z Commission on what is before them to then send it on to you so Mr. Burns can get a vote .... Commission could take it up again on November 2 ..~.. Baker/ Will this amended plan still require six votes to pass? Franklin/ I can't tell you that at this point .... There are some complexities with it... I think what would be appropriate is that under council time... you by motion request that the P/Z Commission give you a recommendation on what is before it since the housing policy is not imminent. Horow/ Mr. Scott .... shaking his head no .... Thisrepresents only areasoneblyoccuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowe Citycouncil meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 13 Economic Development Ad Hoc Committee ADpointments 95-120 S2 Horow/ We have a memo from the City Manager with the categories of people ..... What I would ask you ..... Do you agree with categories that staff has suggested for us? ..... Kubby/ Horow/ Baker/ Horow/ Other issue... need for someone more knowledgeable about zoning on this ..... Pigott/ Nov/ Throg/ If there are ten members .... the balance appears to be skewed ..... because there are two new categories. I am just observing here .... small business... resource people .... Of they are both very economic growth oriented, period, then that would skew the balance of the overall committee. A third observation .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-122 SIDE 1 Pigott/ ...would it be possible.. to expand the number of people chosen from any one category? ..... Nov/ We had staff people trained as facilitators ..... I am sure that they can handle it. Horow/ Steve, what was the staff's position on facilitators? Arkins/ You can have one ..... Baker/ A facilitator outside our staff people? Lehman/ I don't think so. Atkins/ ...very much up to you. Throg/ If a person ..... is perceived as being on one side or the other...so there is a sense of polarization on the committee, it is unlikely the committee is going to be able to accomplish its goal objectively ..... Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 14 Horow/ .... Lehman/ .... person did a great job .... Baker/ (Tape problems). Throg/ ...certainly some people in that process are staking out fairly polarized positions and it won't do us, in this city, any good to appoint a committee which people take and hold to fixed polarized positions .... Need people who can work together ...... Baker/ Throg/ Some sense of diversity being represented so there is not some sense of being radically skewed one way or another. Pigott/ How do we achieve that? Kubby/ Looking at categories at where people have expertise .... Horow/ What other categories would you suggest? Throg/ .... When I count up the people I know and where I think they stand, knowing they would all be willing participants .... feels to me imbalanced. Kubby/ ...what would you do? ..... people who own and operate businesses, labor and consumer groups... three categories and labor only has one person who understands these issues .... Lehman/ We can be just as guilty as trying to skew this committee. We decide on those folks that agree with our views and we put them on the committee .... total unfair to the committee. I think we need folks who will be open minded and take a good look at the merits and make decisions based on those merits. Kubby/ You need to have a balance of perspectives .... Lehman/ As long as they meet the balance that we like. Baker/ I am still confused about what is the competing perspective here? .... Throg/ On one hand one could imagine that there are people dedicated to the principle of economic growth at all costs. On the other hand you could imagine people who would say Thisrepresents only areasonablyeccuratetranscriptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of October23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 15 represent the labor and environmental group and neighborhood .... who perhaps feel that economic growth at all costs would harm them or the natural environment ..... That is the potential that I see. Lehman/ Couldn't we make suggestions in the next two weeks as far as people and categories, write them down and get them to Susan ...... compilation of the areas that we are interested in and folks .... Pigott/ Be open minded ..... Nov/ Most people... are going to be balanced .... somewhere in between. Baker/ Horow/ I would like then for you all to get to me the names that you would like to put on these categories .... Throg/ ...Do we want the members to be residents of Iowa City? ..... Horow/ Yes ..... Atkins/ If you want a facilitator, you simply have to decide that. Two, we will staff the committee. I am assuming Karin or David will staff the committee ..... There will be a staff person assigned. Lehman/ I would prefer having a staff person be the facilitator as long as it works. Horow/ Nov/ One more idea...second page...council must still determination the means of selection of individuals .... While we are handing names ... also hand in on how selection should be done .... Kubby/... I don't have a problem of doing it in the public eye but don't want to be asked behind the scenes on which people do you want ..... tally ..... I do not want what was done on the Visions 2000 .... Nov/ Thinking of ...all submit ideas .... mayor write letter .... advertise in general .... Thinking of how do we generate applicants. Thisrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowaCltycouncilmeetingofOctobe;23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 16 Horow/ Let's put an ad in the newspaper .... Baker/ Nov/ Generate a list and ask them if they want to do it? Pigott/ Council time ..... public announcement .... Throg/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 23, 1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 17 Meet With UHts. City Council re Melrose Avenue Project 95-122 Sl Horow/ This is our time with UHts .... Can you all come up behind us? [University Heights Seating Arrangement] Horow/ Thanks for your letter. We received your letter. We all have the recommendation (tape problems). I am assuming we all have the recommendations from (can't hear) ...... We also have your letter ..... Don, your whole council is here? Don Swanson/ Yes. Horow/ The resolution that we have... adopted Alternative 4, three land bridge and three lane road alternative .... Was there a consensus among you about that? Swanson/ First of all narrowing the road down. Our position... we are concerned the bridge (can't hear) with the UHts traffic plan .... accommodate a three land operation. Horow/ Staff... in terms of the issues of the position of UHts, Melrose Avenue will remain a residential two lane street through UHts. I am assuming that is your decision .... that is really no problem. That you all are going to consider having a third turning lane between the bridge and Koser ..... Is that part of the existing design? Swanson/ Yes. Horow/ Striping for the bridge lane should...mutual .... Kubby/ If we choose a three lane option...that could in the future be striped four lanes that we have a resolution that says it will be striped three lanes and so it would take an act of council. Therefore we could have some public pressure put on us .... It has to go through a process to change the striping. Baker/ ...ordinance may be more appropriate .... Lehman/ I don't envision it ever being changed but it should be very difficult to change. Kubby/ ...why would we build wide three lanes instead of slightly narrower? Baker/ ...I think we are irresponsible if we don't allow for the potential for a four lane road bridge sometime in the future Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa City councllmeeting of October23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 18 ...... Wide three lanes .... Lehman/ According to the information that we have here from the folks who did the study, a three lane street will carry 28% more capacity than a two lane street with 3% less accidents. A four lane street you only pick up less than 10% an increase in accidents of 60% ..... But you make it as safe as you possibly can .... Baker/ Don Yarbrough/ Coupling Melrose east of the bridge with the bridge width .... The argument that the bridge can be re-striped as a four lane bridge doesn't make a lot of sense to me if we got three lanes going into UHts narrowing to two .... Baker/ Take the widest possible space you way you think it is most appropriate, option in the future. can now and use it the you leave yourself an Throg/ ..... expect four lanes in the future. Baker/ I don't expect it but ..... Yarbrough/ I agree there is no way to plan for all contingencies. Baker/ .... Lehman/ Yarbrough/ Even if at some point in the future ..... that if at some point in the future someone... should want four lanes off that bridge, it would require construction at that point and that seems impossible to me ..... Lehman/ Three lane bridge with a three land road gives us the most possible options as long as make sure that the striping cannot be down without a p.h ..... Horow/ ... right now there is not a majority of people on council who goes along with it his position .... Baker/ I don't think Ernie and I are disagreeing about the present .... Still talking about the same width, 47 feet. Nov/ Map and the books says 47.9 feet and the resolution says 47 This represents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 19 feet, does that make a difference? Fosse/ At this point I think the important thing to agree on is a concept ...... The key is to agree on the concept .... Kubby/ Those differences on widths especially on the UHts side of the bridge, will that make or break whether people can get out of Olive Court or not. Fosse/ On the UHts end of the bridge I presume that the bike lanes, the shoulders are going to go away so that width difference won't be an issue over there .... Yarbrough/ ...question... is the way the sidewalk and... barrier rails, the way they will be constructed .... How feasible is it in the future to remove those barrier rails and extend the lanes into what would be, in the current design, be sidewalks? ...... Are they permanent or can they be moved to encroach on the sidewalks and create five foot sidewalks .... Fosse/ That is possible, you could move the barrier rails ..... The sidewalks will be designed structurally to carry traffic loads Yarbrough/ Fosse/ By getting an additional six feet? Yarbrough/ ..... I heard you moving to 47 and now closer to 50. I want to know how big this thing will be under this concept. Fosse/ If you were to move the barrier rails and you had a say 49 foot width, you would add 6 feet to 49. So it would be 55 feet. Yarbrough/ And you need a 11 for a lane, is that correct? .... Fosse/ Yes. Horow/ That was Don Swanson ..... I mean Don Yarbrough .... Yarbrough/ I think what I heard is that it is a 49 plus foot bridge and five lanes would be feasible at some point in the future. Horow/ That takes away the whole issue of the bikes and the pedestrians. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City c~uncil meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 20 Baker/ We want to provide space for bikes and pedestrians on that bridge. Nov/ We need that. Kubby/ Rick, will you explain that process... Fosse/ If DOT were to require that those shoulders be of a parking lane width because buses will be stopping there to pick up people, that same require, I think, would logically be waived on the bridge because buses would not be stopping on the bridge .... Kubby/ There are things that we can do to say that we will ensure .... we want a 47 foot wide bridge. We can be adamant .... right? Fosse/ I think the DOT is a little gun shy on this whole project. Horow/ ... we have been talking about pedestrian and bicycle lanes as a mode of transportation along here .... Yarbrough/ / I think you he wanted to know the feasibility of how you could re-use this space .... Horow/ So this is an issue that is there. I would like to continue on this. The council strongly favors maintaining vehicle and pedestrian traffic flow during construction .... We don't have any problem with that ..... Nov/ The width of 47 feet plus 8 foot sidewalk on each side is going to allow you to do that. Fosse/ Yes .... that is just travel portion. Horow/ The bridge should be the minimal width necessary ..... what is the minimal width necessary? Fosse/ Without having a parking lane on the bridge for buses is probably 47 feet ..... Yarbrough/ The 47 foot width foresees shoulders that are 8 feet wide? ...... Steve Jacobsen/ 7.7? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowo City council meeting of October23,1995. W$102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 21 Yarbrough/ So any reduction in the size of the bridge would result in that should being smaller ..... because we would stay with a 8 foot sidewalk? Fosse/ Yes. Yarbrough/ Kubby/ What is a standard shoulder on most of our bridges in town? .... For new design work? Fosse/ .... 1.2 meters in addition to the roadway coming into it on each s~de. So it side would be 1.2 meters wider .... about 4 feet. Davidson/ Talking about basically a lane that is intended for (can't hear). Kubby/ So the reason it is almost twice as big is to accommodate those other modes of transportation. Davidson/ Shoulder as designed is not wide enough for a trans- vehicle to be in it and not encroach on the road ..... a bus is 102 inches wide .... Kubby/ We are not intending for buses to stop on the bridge so why do we need a shoulder that is wide enough to accommodate that? Davidson/ I was speaking of the street. Kubby/ The dimensions are true for the bridge itself, right? Davidson/ Kubb¥/ If we wanted to we could reduce the shoulders on the bridge, still have enough room for bicycles .... How much shoulder width do we need on the bridge? Fosse/ If you want to maintain bike lanes across there and not full fledged shoulders, Davidson/ Five feet is over the community then .... about five feet in width- the Standard that we use for all for bike lanes. It is the minimum. Swanson/ And what would be the total width of the bridge under that condition? Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session 10 .... 43. bicycle lanes the barrier Fosse/ 47 minus 14 plus Baker/ That is traffic, Fosse/ That is between sidewalks both on the outside. Kubby/ Throg/ 43 foot wide minimum is what Fosse/ Yes. Horow/ Plus the 8 feet sidewalks .... total bridge. and pedestrian? rails and then I heard him say. Page 22 the 8 foot on both sides .... 59 feet Yarbrough/ Would you discuss snow removal with a bike lane .... Fosse/ Presumably during the winter months when there is a lot of snow storage over there, bikes won't be out there. If they are they need to be merged with the regular car traffic .... shoulders out there would function in the winter time as snow storage and in the summer time as bike lanes. Yarbrough/ ..... Fosse/ Nov/ Yarbrough/ Fosse/ The barrier rails will provide some protection in that regard. Horow/ I am moving on to parking for businesses along Melrose Avenue .... Is that possible? Fosse/ I am assuming this is after construction? Horow/ I assumed it was during construction. Swanson/ Actually both .... Fosse/ After construction .... one space may be lost .... during construction I suspect it will be difficult to maintain those on street spaces ..... staging the project .... nine month This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of October 23, 1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 23 range, nine to twelve. Swanson/ ... biggest concern is long range loss of parking spaces. And if it is at all practical to maintain some of the spaces during construction, we would appreciate it. Fosse/ Okay. Horow/ You do recognize there could be one space lost- Fosse/ Could be .... Kubby/ What are the factors that will allow us keeping the same number of parking spaces? ..... Fosse/ Are we keeping them all or not? .... Steve Jacobsen/ NNW, Inc. I belieue with three lane we have a width area ..... got room to park. Kubby/ ...possibilities of different widths... If we went down to a five foot shoulder, would that preclude us having the same number of parking spaces for the businesses? Jacobsen/ No, it doesn't ..... Horow/ Minimal disruption of access of access to homes, especially Olive Court .... Fosse/ .... We cannot guarantee no disruption .... Kubby/ We have done things in the past...elderly... to help out .... Horow/ Kubby/ Make sure UHts has that information ahead of time .... updates and changes .... Gloria Jacobson/ Mr. Jacobsen told us at our last council meeting that there would be times .... for the construction to be occurring .... so they wouldn't be blocked in ..... Horow/ I think this is something we will have to work with the Melrose Avenue Neighborhood Association as well .... Construction period is optimal time to correct problems with sanitary sewer .... Thlsrepresentsonly areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of October23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 24 Fosse/ .... We have an idea of where the bottleneck is. We intend to tie the two together as long as we got construction going on in the area .... Horow/ Pending litigation should be resolved ..... Woito/ Steve (Ballard) and I talked last week and presented a proposal for settling the litigation in terms of the city's jurisdiction. I would like UHts to present it to you all and I am neutral on it right now. Steve Ballard/ City Attorney for UHts. Essentially the proposal that I have made to Linda is to maintain what we have perceived the boundary between the municipalities ..... which means ... essentially the west edge of the bridge as it is now configured ..... Where that edge is now, we would like to maintain that as the recognized boundary between the two cities ..... Horow/ It is our hope to get this resolved. Woito/ The down side to that would be if we had to revisit this time and time again .... if it were going to interfere with the city's ability to get on the property ..... Lehman/ .... require UHts to maintain that portion of the bridge that were on their property? Woito/ The bridge is literally moving 20 feet to the east ..... The entire bridge is actually ^,'~ ~ ..... ~ ~ .... ~- m ..... ~ and away from UHts .... Martin Jones/ The new bridge is being shortened by about 20 feet. Lehman/ Woito/ Ballard/ ..it is moving even farther away from us and we would certainly anticipate... we will maintain sections of Melrose Avenue that are within our corporate jurisdiction ..... Horow/ This is an issue that we will leave to our attorneys to give us the pros and cons and come towards resolution... Council members from Iowa City... Pigott/ I want to know how UHts feels about issues we just talked Thisrepresents only areasonebly accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 25 about ..... Swanson/ I am satisfied with the issues that are resolved .... Fosse/ There is a clause in the design standards that says .... bridge width be at least the width of the approach roadway which may cause us some problems with shoulders from 7 to 5 feet. It comes with the interpretation of what is the roadway. Does that include the shoulders or not ..... Kubby/ There was some discussion about having the wider shoulders allows future councils to change the ordinance to re-stripe it differently ...... 47 foot ...that has 7.7 foot shoulders. Is that acceptable? Louise From/ I think it varies among our council ..... I personally like having 47 feet. I walk on that five feet wide... I like having that additional safety factor ..... I think we need that space. I don't think everybody on our council agrees. Yarbrough/ The issue is really how it is striped ..... no guarantee about how it is going to be striped .... My personal preference that is currently be striped for three lanes and that it remain that way and that it not be so large that it can ever be striped for five ..... We need the sidewalks that are 8 feet wide ..... sidewalk is a separate issue .... I think that we as a council avoided taking any position about what the actual width should be. Our position has been there will be three lanes coming off the bridge narrowing into to ..... Nov/ ...I am a pedestrian ..... I prefer that they be given enough room .... Horow/ Kubby/ ...more than the minimum standards for bike lanes. Nov/ Horow/ Is there a consensus ..... Kubby/ I just heard UHts council say they are not recommending a width. They are recommending a striping and have it to be the minimum that is necessary for our purposes which is for us to decide. Nov/ Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 26 Fosse/ The consultants proposal is 47 feet, 47.9 .... Nov/ The bridge and the street in UHts will line up without any sharp curving? Fosse/ The shoulders .... on side with parking .... will disappear rather abruptly on UHts .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-122 SIDE 2 Horow/ Would mean that bicycles would have to- Fosse/ They will need to merge at that point. (Can't hear) ..... Davidson/ (Can't hear). Kubby/ ...can we come back and reconfigure how that space is used .... use that space however we want? Fosse/ I can't answer that off the top of my head. / What bridge width are you actually talking about now? Horow/ 47 feet plus the- came down to 59 feet. 43 feet bridge and 16 foot sidewalks. That gives me a 59 foot bridge. Fosse/ 47 and 3 for the barrier rails is 50 and 16 for the sidewalks would be 56 .... Kubby/ Gets confusing to me / ...You are talking your traffic-thoroughfare portion and what bridge are we talking about here. 47? 44? Davidson/ We were talking 43 and then Rick made the point that the State may not let us have a bridge narrower than the roadway. Throg/ ...haven't had the p.h. yet .... I feel very hesitant to say yes I want 47 foot .... I do want to commit to the three lanes Yarbrough/ I want the issues to be clear ..... Question about the width of the street in UHts wasn't answered ..... Is our street 42 feet wide? (Can't hear) .... G. Jacobson/ It narrows to the intersection because once you go Thlsrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 through the Yarbrough/ ...... G. Jacobson/ Horow/ council Work Session Page 27 intersection .... other side... is wider... That bottleneck is a very short space ..... Henry Wetherby/ I have a question about what is going to happen to the storm sewer .... east of the store there (can't hear). Fosse/ If there is a problem with the existing outlet, we will take a look at that now .... Wetherby/ .... we could have. Fosse/ (Tape problems). The storm sewer will be extended ..about 20 feet to the east ..... Kubby/ Who is responsible financially for the extension of that storm sewer... Fosse/ The outlet is in Iowa City. It is UHts water .... Yarbrough/ We have an existing contract and we can check the contract ..... signed about 5-6 years ago. Richard Martin/ We are talking about a 47 feet total width bridge? Kubby/ No, traveled portion. Horow/ traveled portion. Martin/ .... the lanes are how much, 11 feet? Fosse/ Yes. Martin/ Three of them? Fosse/ Yes. Martin/ And the sidewalks are 8 feet? So we have 3 X 11 foot? ..... 8 foot sidewalks ..... about 65 feet? Initially it would be stripped for three lanes? Horow/ That is what we are talking about with an ordinance ..... This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of October 23, 1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 28 Nov/ Lehman/ We can see to it that any effort to change that from a three to a four lane would have to go through the p.h. process, three readings and whatever .... Kubby/ Yarbrough/ I think the point is extremely well taken... see more pressure on pedestrian traffic... Baker/ ... I absolutely agree that three lanes is the appropriate use ..... Question for the Iowa City council ..... feasibility of desirability of our side of the bridge...using some of that space in the middle lane as a raised median... three reasons... harder to convert to four... aesthetically... safety factor ..... Want to get a sense of our council of whether or not we want to ask our staff to pursue that .... Council/ (All talking). Pigott/ How that affects the safety ..... factor. Baker/ ..... access to my driveway .... Lehman/ Street that could be carrying 12,000-14,000 vehicles. We could use the third lane as a stacking lane ..... Baker/ Horow/ I don't think so ..... Martin Jones/ You are going to have it stacked...all the way up to Hawkins Drive ..... Horow/ Come back to it or whatever .... Thank you very much .... [Council Break] Thisrepresents only areesonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 29 City Council Discussion of Melrose Avenue Project 95-122 S2 Horow/ Kubb¥/ ..have most of our discussion after the p.h. Lehman/ I would agree. Horow/ I think so too. Throg/ ... need to hear what people say in the p.h ..... instruct staff to make that a three lane roadway ..... Council/ (All talking). Fosse/ (Refers to map)... I think there are some opportunities to put in some abbreviated islands that will not interfere with turning traffic and may provide some pedestrian refuge out there ..... safety aspects .... (refers to map) ..... Nov/ I don't see a need for that ..... if you are going to put in a traffic signal ..... Horow/ ... safety... Fosse/ I think for pure safety for pedestrians it might be an illusion of safety ...... Pigott/ ...more like what we see along Iowa Avenue .... longer and bigger .... Horow/ How wide do you have to have a blvd area? ..... Fosse/ .... 9-10 foot range ..... Lehman/ Ask the staff to look at the feasibility and desirability. Fosse/ I would like the opportunity ..... Horow/ Discussion this evening ..... Council/ (All talking). Pigott/ What about the .... bus bays in that area... Davidson/ If you eliminate the shoulder than will feel there is a concern with bicycles... mix ..... If you go to carving bus bays .... r.o.w. problems .... Thisrepresents only areesonably accuratetranscription ofthalowa City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 30 Kubby/ Conflict...bikers in conflict with the bus .... Lehman/ Horow/ Davidson/ Combination of traffic in one place .... Pigott/ Davidson/ The standards, you want that thing at least four feet tall .... Fosse/ Once you introduce that barrier then the DOT requires additional width ..... Kubby/ Talking about same width of street all the way down...do you really need that width all the way down? ..... Fosse/ I think we need to look hard at this corridor (refers to map) ..... Throg/ ...University plans on a diagonal .... Baker/ Fosse/ Lehman/ I agree with you, Rick. I think we can take a hard look at this section ..... Fosse/ ...we will need to rebuild it at some width ..... Davidson/ We do have a property on the corner here that we want to stay away from .... historic nature of the property. Kubby/ ...have some flexibility on that far end .... Horow/ ..... Thisrepresents only area$onably accuratotranscrlptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 31 Appointments 95-122 S2 Senior Center Commission - No decision (Late application noted from Philip Zell. Individual members to speak with applicant prior to formal meeting.) Thisrepresents only a reasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 32 Council Aqenda/Time 95-122 S2 1. Lehman/ (I~EM NO. 4 -f (4)Letter from nine residents of Ecumenical Towers regarding high temperatures in apartments). We did receive a letter from some folks .... Atkins/ There is no apparent code violation ..... 2. Lehman/... legal in Iowa City to ride skateboards on city streets. Is that true? .... Woito/ No, they are banned on all streets including residential. Kubby/ What about sidewalks?... You need to know that for tomorrow night ..... Nov/ Woito/ They are allowed in the parks everywhere. Lehman/ Woito/ I will have it in front of me. 3. Nov/ There is a letter in here about somebody who wants to play roller blade hockey in the parking ramp and I would like us to check with the University and find out if they allow that on top of their parking ramps late at night. Horow/ ...roller blade hockey teams .... They have these teams .... I would like to talk... what is keeping him from asking P/R to create teams? Pigott/ Where? ..... Horow/ Up to us to figure out ..... willing to look into making an exception ..... Pigott/ Horow/ Top floor .... Nov/ The University have a parking ramp... do they also allow rollerblading on top of their ramp? ..... Kubby/ Situation is different .... woito/ I thought you people directed me to go back to staff and Thisrepresents only areasonabiy accurate transcription ofthelowe Citycouncil meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session make recommendations .... we met once .... what we have done so far. 4. Nov/ Notice of public open house Transportation between Iowa City should try and go if we can .... Horow/ I will be in Des Moines... Ernie at JCCOG .... Nov/ I am going to try and be there. Horow/ Larry .... Baker/ ..... Nov/ Thursday, 26th, 11:00 to 1:00 ..... Baker/ Yes. 5. Page 33 I will report on on October 26 Crandic RR and C.R ..... I think we St Nov/ Notice about the possibility of council members attending neighborhood meeting on HyVee site plan... decide how many of us .... Nov 1 ..... Wednesday evening .... I was concerned that we not have four .... Nov/ (ITEM NO. 18 -CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING AND AUTHORIZING EXECUTION OF ANAGREEMENT FOR THE TEMPORARY USE OF THE E. WASHINGTON STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND M.C. GINSBERG JEWELERS, INC.) Application from Ginsberg to put lights in under a tree ..... halogen lights which generate a lot of heat. I want some assurance...heat on tree... Woito/ Rick reviewed that application. Nov/ Rick is not a tree expert ..... they generate a lot of heat .... want from a tree expert .... Woito/ (Tape problems). Kubby/ Holiday style lights ..... Woito/ I don't think his is a proposal for holiday lights. Nov/ We need some more discussion .... Horow/ Holiday lighting among trees ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the iowa City council meeting of October 23, 1995. WS102399 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 34 Helling/ They do want to increase the amount of lighting over past years ..... pedestrian plaza... along Washington.. Clinton... Iowa Avenue ..... seasonally .... Throg/ Nov/ Very tiny bright lights .... Horow/ This is something that is not going to be quickly resolved until we get more staff input. 7. Throg/ ...At a conference in Detroit .... Council/ (All talking). Throg/ Talking with Dean of College of Architecture and Planning .... Great president for the University of Iowa ..... 8. Throg/ Water impact fee stuff .... couple of memos .... Thank you for the memos .... Little bit confused about interaction between new development and excess capacity ..... know it has to worked out ..... Puzzled is all I am saying .... Woito/ (Can't hear). Kubby/ Information we are getting about the Jobs Training information for NCS ..... already made the agreement .... in future I would like to know the wage range and how many people are in each category .... 10. Kubby/ o.. Public Housing Authority. I am getting increasingly frustrated that we haven't seen .... got some fact stuff .... who is it that is receiving assistance in our Section 8 Program ...... getting a director .... We need a director for the department .... Atkins/ (Can't hear). Kubby/ 11. Kubby/ About the Munston House where Kirkwood goes around. understand the ctty's position that they have a strange situation, bug rain .... tenant there is having some problems .... They lost a bunch of stuff... low income person on Section 8 .... frustrated that we can't help in some way .... Our risk management people have said we are not responsible Thisrepresents only areesonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395 October 23, 1995 Council Work Session Page 35 Atkins/ Has she applied for any other programs? I will check. Kubby/ She filed for a separate claim ..... 12. Baker/ Apologize for being late tonight .... 13. Horow/ Tomorrow remember we will have the Board of Supervisors, 6:30 ..... 14. Atkins/ Had my first task force meeting with the d.t. folks on the Plaza ..... We had a very lively discussion. Adjourned: 8:30 PM Thlsrepresente only araasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of October 23,1995. WS102395