HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-11-20 TranscriptionNovember 20, 1995
Council Work Session
7:00 PM
Council: Horow, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Nov, Pigott, Throg.
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Miklo, Franklin, Nasby,
Milkman, Davidson, Schoon, Yucuis.
Council Elect: Vanderhoef, Thornberry.
P/Z Cormmission: George Starr, Jane Jakobsen, Ann Bovbjerg, Lea
Supple.
Tapes: 95-131, All; 95-133, all.
SaratoGa SDrinqs Development Proposal
a. Meet with P/Z Commission re:
b. Discuss Allocation of Funds
95-131 S1
Zoning.
Franklin/ The multi-family structure which is farther away. The
significant difference here .... number of units and type of
housing .... the fact that the rezoning from RS-5 to OPDH
excludes the northerly 2.2 acres that Mr. Burns is acquiring
from Mary Hitchcock. Okay, there is two pieces of property ....
Mary Hitchcock .... and Charles and Marie Ruppert to the south
of it. The rezoning from RS-5 to OPDH is the southerly part of
the property that is currently owner by Mary Hitchcock and
then the entire property that is owned by Charlie and
Marie .... the triangle ....
Kubby/
Franklin/ ...This is the zoning line right here (refers to overhead
projector map) ..... When that property develops, it will
require either an amended plan because the OPDH plan for this
is this house. So if anything changes, it requires that it go
through a planned process, through the Commission and the
Council just as this is. Likewise, if there is a request to
rezone it to something different .... it will be required to
go through that same kind of rezoning process .... (refers to
map) .... Whatever happens... require some review and zoning
process in which the council and obviously the neighborhood
will have some role .... The p.h. that you are going to have
tomorrow night is on this project, this rezoning. It does not
include the subdivision here (refers to map). That subdivision
would take place at a later date. Right at this moment we do
not have a signed conditional zoning agreement. If you do not
have a signed CZA .... by the close of the p.h. tomorrow night,
you then don't have the conditions for the conditional zoning
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WS112095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 2
and I guess we would suggest... that you vote denial of it
because there would be no conditions placed on it
then ..... November 27 you talked about having a special formal
meeting before our housing discussion. If it is not signed
tomorrow night, another option you have is to continue the
p.h. to November 27 to allow for that to happen.
Kubby/ What signatures do we have yet to obtain?
Franklin/ I believe all of them.
Nov/ We have a third copy of the CZA .....
Woito/ I had Sara clarify the reasons for a., b., and c. It was not
clear in there .....
Franklin/ Is Mary Hitchcock in town? Are we able to physically get
a signature from Mary?
Woito/ We need Mary's signature on it?
Franklin/ I am sure we do because she is an owner.
Kubby/ Will she be in town before the 27th of November?
Thornberry (relaying response from Ruppert/ I have no way of
knowing.
Kubby/ We can send it.
Franklin/ We can. Oh, Charlie Ruppert said he would have nc way of
knowing. I think what you have to work on is what you have
before you at whatever point we are at in the process. Are
there any questions about the rezoning. The Commission's
recommendation was denial of this project. I think I will let
George Starr explain that vote.
George Starr/ Unfortunately George Starr was not at the meeting
when they voted but I can certainly try to explain some of the
rationale behind the vote ..... My impression was that the
primary concern was .... the uncomfortability with the OPDH-8
by the Rupperts and Hitchocks on the southerly triangle
part .... The objections... caused some concerns for the
Commission ..... I think in addition to that... one of the
concerns.. if some chang? in. the future comes through,
we could e~ up w~ a spot zoning in that area. My impression
was that was the primary concern...
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 3
Horow/ Could you elaborate on the spot zoning that the Commision-
Starr/ I think... what we would end up with would be an RS-5 and a
very small portion .... of the OPDH-8 which doesn't really
leave much of a transition between the RS-5 and OPDH-8 ..... As
we look at the northerly section that is remaining RS-5 ....
there was some comfortability on the part of the Commission in
looking at that as even possibly an RS-8 to create... more
transition between the RS-5, then into the RS-8 and to the
OPDH-8.
Kubby/ ...the neighborhood has said that is not acceptable to
us .... There wasn't the votes to have... even 32 units per
acre for the whole tract. It is a catch-22 we are in the
middle of .... say no to the whole project .... Your job is to
talk about the land use and our job is to get us out of the
catch-22 ....
Starr/ The Commission kind of felt that same... This has been..
cloudy issue .... There has been significant discussion about
the financing which I realize this Commission is not going to
talk about .... We really tired to look at it from a land use
issue and I think the Commission made the best recommendation
that it could make at that time.
Horow/ Are there any other Commission members? .....
Baker/ Since we are not technically deciding about the s.f. lots on
the north side but I assume that was part of your
discussion ..... isn't that a reasonable transition?
Starr/ RS-5 to the OPDH-8?
Baker/
Starr/ You are not talking major... probably some other issues that
came into play .... What kind of density changes would we be
looking at between an RS-8 and OPDH-8?
Franklin/ The density is going to be the same. It is the housing
type that changes .... RS~5 as designed in this subdivision...
is a smaller lot than what you find in an RS-5 to the
north .... Whole issue of transition with Saratoga Place is an
issue that has been there when this plan came out ..... Got
those townhouses in there as kind of moderator between the
s.f. It is not a lot of multi-family that you have in this
project but it is a weak transition. I understand where the
Thlsrepresontsonlyareasonably accuratetranscriptlon ofthelowaClw council meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 4
Commission was coming from ....
Throg/ I want to make sure I am understanding a couple of things
correctly ..... The southern triangle that Charlie Ruppert's
house is currently located on would be rezoned OPDH against
his will?
Franklin/ That is a more recent development.
Throg/
Franklin/ We do not have a protest to the OPDH-8 from Charlie. I
don~t know what is agreed to in the purchase offers between
Mr. Burns and Mary Hitchcock and all of those private things
that went on. However, if the CZA is not signed that certainly
is an indicator the council that some of the players in this
obviously don't want it to happen. So in essence it is a
protest but would not require your 6 votes out of 7 on that
alone. But it is certainly a signal.
Throg/ ... If an owner of that land doesn't want that land to be
rezoned in a particular way, there is no way on earth that I
am going to support the rezoning.
Franklin/ I would not advise you to support it without the CZA
certainly.
Kubby/... come talk to us tomorrow night, Charlie.
Nov/ Is there still some time constraint on this?
Franklin/ There is a January 9th date of the purchase offer
expiring and there is a December deadline for Low Income
Housing Tax credit application.
Nov/ So what is the December deadline?
Franklin/ The December deadline is to apply to the state for low
income housing tax credits, December 1. That is why we talked
about the 27th or 28th for a meeting.
Nov/ So if we approve it we have to do it before first of December?
Franklin/ Yes.
Kubby/ If we knew right now that Charlie had no intentions of
signing the agreement, there is no real purpose in us spending
Thisrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscription ofthelowa City councilmeetlngofNovember20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 5
anymore time here ....
Horow/ Does anyone have any questions from Charlie?
Kubby/ Charlie, do you intend to sign this?
Horow/ .... Charlie, the blunt question is do you intend to sign the
CZA?
Charlie Ruppert/ I don't know anything about that.
Horow/ Have you seen it?
Ruppert/ The thing is so mixed up. You got Mary owning a different
parcel than she owns. She owns the two acres to the south. She
doesn't own the one to the north. And it has been a mix up
ever since the start and I just made up my mind that I would
stay right out of it as long as I could and I have done that
pretty well. I don't want no way to have that RS- OPDH. I had
never intention of that. We lived there 57 years and some day
it will be zoned but not right now.
Pigott/
Kubby/ Charlie, before when we were talking about the other version
that council voted down. That was having your land be OPDH and
that was okay with you then, right?
Ruppert/ No, that doesn't have anything to do with this where I
live. It never did. It just had the three acres and the two
acres and Mary owns the south half and I own the north
half ....
Kubby/ .... was Charlie's property slated to be rezoned 0PDH-8?
Franklin/ Yes it was.
Ruppert/
Franklin/ I think that you can conclude that the CZA will not be
signed and I think that is how you should proceed.
Horow/
Kubby/ ...some communication mix ups.
Horow/ George-
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20.1995.
WS112095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 6
Starr/ Because the agenda said meet with P/Z Commission re: zoning
the Co]mmission had some discussion about the word meeting and
there was some concern that there would be an impression that
this meeting would replace the agreed upon meeting if there
was a disagreement between council and P/Z and the Commission
has agreed that they don't want this meeting to replace that.
If in fact there is a disagreement we would like to proceed
with the joint meeting between P/Z and council.
Council/ (All talking).
Horow/
Kubby/ Sounds like this whole thing is a moot point.
Pigott/ Close it if there is no signature.
Kubby/ It would be good to have the mayor explain at the beginning
of the p.h. what the situation is .....
Bob Burns/ We do have a letter here from the Rupperts, from Mary
Hitchcock who speaks for Charlie Ruppert. At one point they
did not object to rezoning all 7.8 acres OPDH-8. So that is
the basis we were moving forward and it was recently that they
have begun to-
Pigott/ What was the date of that letter?
Burns/ June 29th ....
Horow/ I think we have already seen that.
Burns/ .... On October 15 Mary Hitchcock sent me another letter and
said that OPDH-8 is inappropriate for his home parcel but they
would support CN-1 ..... I sent them the CZA just as soon as I
got it from Bob Miklo and we do have a purchase agreement with
them ..... It says that they are to support us in this
rezoning ..... When we submitted the application for rezoning
I believe it was the city that suggested we do the triangle
piece to avoid the spot zoning issue .... there are other-I
found at least 5-6 other areas in Iowa City where you have
OPDH-8 next to RS-5 ...... It has already been done in the
community. One last point .... you could vote on each piece
separately .....
Horow/ .... tomorrow we are only dealing with this parcel.
Thlsrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12055
November 20, 1995
Council Work Session
Page 7
Franklin/ What is before you is the entire parcel. That was what
was before the staff .... P/Z Commission. The staff would not
support the rezoning to OPDH of the property that has just the
townhouses and multi-family on it .....
Woito/ Not for legal reasons it is not dead.
Franklin/ We have to go through the process.
Horow/ We are going through the process tomorrow, we will hold the
p.h. on it. I will explain the fact that this is not-if by
tomorrow we don't have a CZA ....
Woito/ ...both of them still fit within the comp plan, right?
Franklin/ Yes.
Woito/ It should not be the basis that this would be an illegal
spot zoning that you vote.
Horow/
Franklin/ On the funding of this project I would suggest that we
defer discussion of this because the funding that has been
suggested by Housing and Community Development Commission is
for this project. I think we need to regroup and figure out
where the allocation of money should go if this project
doesn't exist. The HCD Commission did consider that
possibility and... memo from Marianne... reallocation to the
Housing For Working Singles Project was the project that was
chosen by the Commission to go forward with if this project
should fail.
Pigott/
Marianne Milkman/ The time constraints on this one is basically
that the money be committed by May but at this point we are
not looking at applying for additional funds through the state
for another project. This December 1 deadline... wouldn't
apply°
Baker/ If we shifted the money over the the Working Singles
Project, what sort of formal process does the council have to
go through.
Franklin/ We will bring a budget amendment before you at some point
in time within the next few months.
Thisrepresents onlyareasonably accuratetranscrlption ofthelowaCity councilmeetlngofNovember20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 8
Nov/ ...Press Citizen... single occupancy housing in there? ....
Milkman/ It is fully occupied.
Horow/
Nov/ We still need more single residence occupancy.
Milkman/ The Citizen Building is for elderly and persons with
handicaps only. Where we have this huge gap in Iowa City is
housing for working singles .... who don't make a lot of
money ..... folks who have been in the Emergency Shelter... who
have Jobs... We have a real need for housing for persons like
that... and they don't qualify for Section 8 ....
Kubby/ .... Think about what our options are .... If the CZA is not
signed we could still choose to fezone .... We could vote on it
with or without the CZA depending on the signatures, right?
Nov/ Why would we want to rezone it without a CZA?
Kubby/ I am thinking about the spectrum of the options .... that is
an option .......
Horow/ We are scheduled to vote on it on the 27th .....
Throg/ We will need to vote on it ....
Woito/ I think they are entitled to a decision by you.
Karr/ Staff will need to know about the meeting on the 27th
tomorrow evening to allow enough time for a 24 hour notice
given the holidays.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 9
City STEPS Allocation Priorities 95-131 S1
Milkman/ 0nto the basis of all of this. Last year you approved a
five year plan, City STEPS, for housing, jobs and services for
low income residents .... you will be looking at that plan
again .... agree with priorities.. strategies... goals and
making any amendments to it that you wish to and then using
it... to make the allocations for that year... CDBG and HOME
moneys. Tonight what you need to do is three things: 1-Look at
the priorities and strategies and with the recommendations
that you have from the HCD Commission discuss whether there is
anything else there you wish to add ..... I will go over... the
three basis things that came out of the meeting. 2- Look at
the goals in terms of dollar amounts and whether you want to
stick with that kind of funding allocation overall. 3-we want
to just discuss with you a slightly different way of doing the
allocations this year ..... First all of as far as the overall
priorities and strategies, both the HCD Commission and the
public meeting that we had, basically there was no
overwhelming ground swell to change things. The priorities as
they were set seemed good to everybody. One of the things that
came out... need for support services for low income persons
... living skills ..... The second thing was to place more
emphasis .... they felt that we should have some recognition of
the fact that it was important not to concentrate on very low
income housing but to have a mixture of incomes .... recognize
the fact it was good to have targeted housing for a variety of
income levels.
Kubby/ .... start getting confused on terms again ..... doesn't
always mean totally scattered site... Was it clarified at that
public meeting what they meant by not concentrating?
Milkman/ Well no, not really ..... Depends a little bit on how it
was funded .... And then the third item was really that
economic development was only~I think we had a five year goal
of $250,000 and that seems awful low. We also had... high
amount, $600,000, for unprogra~med funds .... recommendation
from the Commission for that also was to place some more money
into economic development and leave less in the contingency.
Throg/
Milkman/ In economic development. It can be a lot of different
things .... job training... assistance to a business that will
hire low income people ..... You can assist with infrastructure
.... anything to help them come and develop their business in
Iowa City provided they provide jobs for low income.
Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscrlption ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 10
Horow/ One thing I felt was different... sense of don't increase
the number of recipients unless you are going to increase the
amount of support services .... Do the job right in terms of
the support services .... rather than increase the number of
recipients who receive these funds ....
Kubby/
Milkman/ The third one deals with the funding for supportive
services and the Commission said they would look at that in
the allocation process ..... It is has been your policy... We
can only use 15% of CDBG dollars for what are called public
services by HUD .... are all operational funding type of
activities .... What traditionally the council has done is to
earmarked... the 15% .... $105,000 for your Aid to Agencies
budget and that came about when General Revenue Sharing ended.
That leaves a very small amount every year that is actually
available for public service type of activities which includes
the support services for housing°.. issue .... Housing
Commission felt there was a big need to fund more support
services .....
Kubby/ I think...support services... for individuals in households
who need them .... I want our language very clear that it is
targeted to those who need...life skills training... only
target training that they need.
Horow/
Kubby/ .... There is some kind of assessment .....
Horow/ This was raised ....
Kubby/ ... We need to, if we are going to offer these services,
offer them at the time and to those people who need it.
Horow/ How do you determine that they need it and will they take
it?
Kubby/ They need to have some kind of assessment tool .... a
judgmental language that I do not want to see in our City
STEPS document.
Horow/ The other aspect of this is the evaluation component .....
Milkman/ Life Skills does an evaluation ....
Thlsrepresentsonly areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa CI~ council meetlngofNovember20,1995.
WS~12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 11
Horow/ That isn't in here .... It did come up that there was no
evaluation.
Milkman/ I think it is a difficult issue .... Transitional Housing
... list of things that you contract to do ......
Kubby/ I want to make sure the language is such that we are not
making blanket statements about people who live on lower
incomes.
Nov/ .o. back to the 15%. Is this something that is set in stone or
is it a policy that can be determined year by year?
Milkman/ It is set in stone. It is a statutory requirement ....
Kubby/ ... Couldn't we spend less that 15%? ....
Milkman/ Yes... we just can't spend more.
Nov/ Can we spend less money on administration? How much of this is
set?
Milkman/ The administration cap is 20%.
Kubby/ Did we use to be at 10%?
Milkman/ For HOME it is 10% but most of it comes out of CDBG .... we
were never at 10%. We have an average of 12%.
Nov/ 11% for public services.
Milkman/ ...lump sum for CDBG and HOME moneys. HOME you cannot use
any of its moneys for public services.
Lehman/ Do we assist in down payments on manufactured housing only?
Milkman/ Yes and no. We haven't done it yet because this is a pilot
project this year with First National Bank and we are still
bickering with HUD about being allowed to do it at all
because... manufactured housing isn't on a permanent
foundation... main sticking point...we have to guarantee the
owners will not have to pay more than 30% of their income for
their payments for their housing costs and we are just trying
to figure out how we can do that .... I still think we are
going to be able to make it work .... We are trying it and I
think it is going to work. We did have a very small down
payment assistance program a couple of years ago for first
This represents only a reesonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WS112095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 12
time home buyers .....
Lehman/ I think it is a great program... Other thing... impressed
with... I really think that economic development funds may be
some of the best spent money that you have ....
Milkman/ Do you want to see a different percentage? ..... up to 7%
from 3% for economic development.
Kubby/ ...we should not go too far too fast .... creep it up and see
what happens.
Throg/ I agree particularly given the lack of clarity about how
those funds would be used .....
Milkman/ Right now we have been talking with Heartland Candles
Works .... has been growing and they do employ quite a number
of people from the shelters...
Throg/ Favorable... It is just that it is not clear how all of
those funds would be used.
Nov/ I think they have to wait for individual applications to come
through...
Throg/ ...I don't see any reason to go beyond it because we don't
have any clarity about how ....
Kubby/ Talk about having allocations in terms of percentage of
funds. I get a little concerned because I would like to have
those percentages there as guidelines... But if one category
has a whole flood of really good proposals and another one
doesn't have any or a few... I want some flexibility for HCD
to say yes to allocation of proposals that were presented that
were good ..... By doing this, how much do we lock ourselves
in? ..... Where is the flexibility in here?
Milkman/ We can certainly put flexibility into it. The thing is
that these are the goals... that is what we are saying we are
going to do. If we are going to do it, let's set it up so that
that when people apply for funds, they understand that there
is much more in this pot than in this pot .....
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-131 SIDE 2
Milkman/ You can always amend ..... We will get locked into tighter
and tighter...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Novembe~ 20, 1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 13
Nov/ What kind of applications will we have for infrastructure?
Milkman/ Well, we have in the past... some things like storm water
improvements in low income areas... sidewalks .... Those are
the main things I can think of.
Nov/
Milkman/ Public facilities is everything like neighborhood centers,
Youth Homes .... buildings for various human service agencies.
Nov/ So it could be a public service agency... capital expense...
Milkman/ CDBG is basically a bricks and mortar program.
Horow/ Any... comments on the Consolidated Plan, the Citizen Plan
Summary .... The very first page of this... second paragraph,
the one under citizen participation... seems to me that the
experiences we had in 1995 by the attempts that we have
had .... have been met with varying degrees of success .....
attended by a cross section of the community. I don't think
that is true ..... Seems to me that we are telling the world
one thing but in affect a different thing happened in this
city.
Kubby/ I think it is a matter of perspective as to what you mean by
cross section. There were .... a cross section in the community
...... But there were people in the development community.
There were people who were advocates of people who live on
lower incomes. There were lower income people ..... There was
a cross section of the community.
Horow/ Seems to me there were... developers and deliverers of the
services ..... The effort that we went through to get the
people at the meeting last week... far more cross section ....
Kubby/
Horow/ I do not think the sentence as it states was absolutely
accurate but that is okay .....
Throg/ I agree with Sue .... does not mean that the hearings
reflected a diverse range of political interests in this
community ..... other people out there .....
Horow/ .... It says to the public that our strategies .... just has
to be greater ....
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WS 112095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 14
Milkman/ One thing to point out is that this is a plan for housing,
jobs and services for low income residents. You are always
going to get more of those showing up.
Kubby/
Throg/ We have encountered obstacles over the past year in trying
to carry out this plan and the plan doesn't .... reflect that
.... It is like saying we recognize there are difficulties in
actually trying to carry this plan out and we are trying to
figure out what to do.
Kubb¥/ I don't find the previous plan invalid .... Sue has spoken to
that in the past ....
Horow/ I am raising the issue ....
Nov/ Strive to have a broader cross section that we have had in the
past. I think it is a valid thing ..... City council would like
to add something about broader representation in the future.
Kubby/ ...call to the community.
Horow/ The other area that I had a question on was page 5, top of
the page where it talks about encouraging scattered site
subsidized housing. Do we mean scattered site subsidized
housing or do we mean rental or ownership? Can that be better
stated to be clearer?
Milkman/ I believe here it is intended to include all types of
subsidized housing .... It is suppose to lump everything
together. Do you want that clarified?
Horow/ There is not four people that want that.
Throg/ ...for this document-
Horow/
Pigott/ This gives the council the flexibility to act in any of
those ways .... It is not specific .... but I do think it
encourages council to make up its mind in terms of that ....
flexibility ..... on what they mean by scattered site
subsidized housing ....
Kubby/ I had something else on page 5 under other issues. It is
another language thing about putting people before categories.
Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccuratetranscrJptlon ofthelowa Ctty councllmeetlngofNovember20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 15
People who are mentally ill, people with mental disabilities,
If we could just (can't hear).
Horow/ ...This has been really interesting...
Thisrepresents only areasonably accur~otranscfiptlon ofthelowaCi~ council meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 16
Review Zoning Matters 95-131 S2
ITEM NO. 6a. Consider setting a public hearing for December 5 on
an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by
repealing Title 14, Chapter 6, Article J, Section
1, River Corridor Overlay Zone.
Miklo/ Setting p.h. for December 5 .... We are proposing is this.
The P/Z Commission and Riverfront and Natural Areas Commission
also recommended approval of this .... The provisions in the
Sensitive Areas Ordinance will replace this particular zone.
ITEM~O. §b.
Consider setting a public hearing for December 5 on
an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 5, Building
and Housing, Article H, Site Plan Review, to
include a reference to the Sensitive Areas Site
Plan.
Miklo/ Set p.h. on December 5 .... This is just a housekeeping
matter so both ordinances are in sync.
ITEM ~Oo ~c.
Consider setting a public hearing for December 5 on
an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 5, Building
and Housing, Article I, Grading Ordinance, to make
it consistent with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance.
Miklo/ Setting a p.h. for December 5 on an ordinance amending the
Grading Ordinance to make it consistent with the Sensitive
A~eas Ordinance. Currently the Grading Ordinance requires a
grading plan where slopes are 28% or greater. This would be
25% or greater which is consistent with our map in the
Sensitive Areas Ordinance. The P/Z Commission and the
Riverfront and Natural Areas Commission and the Building Board
of Appeals ..... all recommended approval of this amendment.
ITEM ~0o 6d.
Consider setting a public hearing for December 5 on
an ordinance amending Title 6, Public Health and
Safety, Chapter 3, Weed Control, Section 3, Natural
Areas, to make it consistent with the Sensitive
Areas Ordinance.
Miklo/ Setting p.h. for December 5 on an amendment to the weed
control sections of the City Code... to make them consistent
with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance.
ITEM ~0o $e.
Consider setting a public hearing for December 5 on
an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to change
the separation requirements for above ground
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratet~anscriptton ofthelowa Citycouncil meetingof November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995
Council Work Session
Page 17
storage tanks.
Miklo/ Setting a p.h. to amend the Zoning Ordinance regarding
separation between above ground storage tanks ..... This
would... requiring above ground tanks to adhere to the Fire
Code ....
ITEM NO. 6f.
Consider setting a public hearing for December 5 on
an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to clarify
the definition of time/temperature signs.
Miklo/ Setting p.h. for December 5 on amendment to the Sign
Regulations to clarify time and temperature signs. This was
done at the request of the DR Committee and the P/Z
Commission.
ITEM NOo 6g.
Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning
Chapter to allow adult day care, elder family
homes, and elder group homes under certain
conditions in Iowa City, and to change the
definition of elderly.
Miklo/ A p.h. on amendments to the Zoning Ordinance to provide for
adult day care, elder family homes, elder group homes and also
amending the definition of elderly to refer to elder and also
to change the age from 62 to 60. Any questions on those
provisions?
Nov/
An elder group home such as Mary Coldten would have to be
licensed, would have to have more than 8 people. What happens
between less than 5 and more than 8? ....
Miklo/ I believe a facility like that... would be considered a
nursing home which is a special exception.
Nov/
Mary Coldren... is just a group home. If there were group
homes that had 7 people it is not covered in this ordinance
.... I think we should somehow take care of the 6-7 ....
Baker/ Mary O. Coldten... fluctuating numbers ....
Nov/ What happens here that we require people be not related? I am
not sure I understand why.
Miklo/ This as based on same definition of Building Code...
definition of family... in attempt to control the number of
boarders.
Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscrlpfionofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofNovember20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 18
Nov/ So if I chose to take in four elderly people... two couples...
this is not illegal?
Miklo/ No ....
Nov/ Okay.
Lehman/ Why is it that we require access to arterial streets or
streets with paving wider than 28 feet?
Miklo/ That is for adult day care where there are more than 6
persons being cared for and that is a similar provision for
day care for children, churches... because more traffic is
going to be generated .....
Lehman/ I can certainly envision an elderly day care center on a
nice quiet street some place ....
Miklo/ If there are 6 or fewer, that is permitted ..... When there
are more than 6 that is when it needs to be on a wider street.
Baker/ So children's day care has to be on a street wider than 28
feet?
Miklo/ Right, 28 feet or wider ..... It isn't difficult to find
streets like that... most of our new streets being built are
28 feet wide .....
Horow/
ITEM NOo 6h.
Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning
Chapter to require bicycle parking for commercial
and multi-family residential development.
Miklo/ A p.h. on amendment to the Zoning Ordinance regarding
bicycle parking for commercial and multi-family residential
development. Just real briefly the number of parking spaces
depends on the number of bedrooms in multi-family units. If
there are two or fewer bedroom, it is a half a space per unit.
If there are three or more bedrooms it is one space per unit.
If there are five or more bedrooms, it is 1 1/2 spaces per
unit. For commercial the requirement is generally based on the
percentage of automobile parking spaces required by the zoning
ordinance and it ranges from 2.5% of the automobile parking to
up to 15% with some businesses being exempted all together ....
Horow/ Was the issue discussed? ..... provision for solid waste
Thisrepresents only ereasonabiyaccur~etranscrlption ofthelowaCitycouncil meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 19
receptacles for recycling in conjunction with this ....
Miklo/ No, it wasn't discussed with this... there is a committee
that is reviewing that ....
Pigott/ Limited amount of space...
Baker/ ...side yard ....
Miklo/ It is five depending on the height of the building. It will
increase two feet for each story.
Baker/ Your space requirement is 6 by 2 feet .....
Miklo/ First off this would not apply to existing buildings...
apply to new construction .... In a situation where there is a
five foot side yard you could not put it there. You could put
it in the front yard which is 20 feet.
Baker/ ... Can they exceed the requirement as long as they didn't
exceed 25% of the yard? ....
Miklo/ Right, they could.
Baker/ Was there some discussion? .... you require a certain number
of vehicular parking spaces... concrete space. Was there some
discussion of trading off some of the required vehicular
parking to let bicycle parking take some of that space .... So
you don't increase the amount of concrete and asphalt .....
Miklo/ There was some discussion of that and we chose not to pursue
that ..... concern about lack of parking for automobiles. It is
our observations that the bicycles are there already and that
by providing for a place to park them there aren't going to be
fewer automobiles as a trade off .... We did look at where
bicycle parking could be placed ..... I have photos ....
Kubby/ Do they have to be paved?
Miklo/ No, they do not have to be paved. They could also be crushed
rock surface as well.
Pigott/ Grass or dirt?
Miklo/ No .....
Horow/ Still doesn't get back to my concern about the space... for
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowaCltycounc[ImeetlngofNovember20,1995.
W$112095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 20
solid waste recycling.
Kubby/
Horow/ If you have the required amount of parking and now we are
going to have bicycles .... where-
Miklo/ You can see from the photos .... We anticipate that parking
will not be in the same place .... It will probably be in a
yard situation like this .... These are front yards ....
Nov/ It does say you cannot use crushed rock .....
Miklo/ ...In lieu of paving or concrete you could use other
materials .....
Nov/
Miklo/ Under A.1. the city building official may permit materials
other than portland cement, concrete, excluding crush rock or
chip seal surfaces for parking areas and driveways. The intent
of that section... something other than crushed rock. It could
be some other form of rock material so that it is other than
gravel that you can use.
Nov/ I would think for bicycle parking you could use crushed
rock ....
Miklo/ This was a recommendation of Tom Scott .....
Horow/
Miklo/ Idea is other than gravel there are other rock materials
that you could use.
Baker/ .....
Horow/ You are asking about what about banking or exchanging one
for the other. Is that excluded now?
Miklo/ Staff wouldn't recommend substituting bicycle parking for
automobile parking or lowering the requirement ..... We have
actually amended the requirements for multi-family upward
recently ..... The amount of space that bicyclists take up is
much less ....
Horow/
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription oftbelows Citycouncil meetingofNovember20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 21
Baker/ You can put about 6 bikes into one parking space ..... How
many units would require 12 bicycle parking spaces?
Miklo/ It would depend on the bedrooms .....
Baker/
Franklin/ (Can't hear).
Pigott/
Throg/ I think your point would have more merit with regard to
commercial .....
Kubby/ I have one other question and that is the ratio of break
points are different for cars than for bikes. What is the
rationale for that.
Miklo/ The ratio break points. I am not sure I understand your
question.
Kubby/ For 2 & 3 bedrooms for car spaces it is the same but for
bike spaces they are different ..... number of bedrooms and how
many parking spaces ....
Miklo/ This was based on observations of'apartment complexes and
the number of bedrooms and this was what we were finding.
Horow/
Baker/ Around the corner .... Iowa Avenue ....
Kubby/ We can encourage them.
Baker/ How many units around the corner there?
Miklo/ I would have to check ..... 16
ITEM NO. 6i.
Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning
Chapter by conditionally changing the use
regulations of an approximate 5.7 acre tract of
land located east of Old Dubuque Road and north of
Dodge Street from RS-5, Low Density Single-Family
Residential, to OPDH-8, Planned Development Housing
Overlay. (REZ95-0010)
ITEMgOo 6j. Consider on an ordinance amending the Zoning
Thisrepresents onlyareesonablyaccuratet~anscrlption ofthelowa Clty councllmeetlngofNovember20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 22
Chapter by adopting a Sensitive Areas Ordinance to
regulate development on properties containing
environmentally sensitive features, including
wetlands, stream corridors, steep slopes, wooded
areas, hydric soils, prairie remnants and
archaeological sites. (Second Consideration)
Miklo/ Second consideration of the Sensitive Areas Ordinance and
there were a number of clarifications to the ordinance that
were included.
Miklo/ There were others that were mailed out Friday.
Nov/ I think it sounds better with the clarifications, thank you.
ITEM NO.
Consider a resolution for final plat approval of
Kennedy's Waterfront Addition, Part Three, a 31.23
acre, 11-1ot commercial subdivision located south
of Highway 1 between Gilbert Street and the Iowa
River. (SUB95-0026)
Miklo/ The final plat of Kennedy Waterfront, Part Three. This is a
31 acre, 11 lot, commercial subdivision. This was delayed for
clarification or correction of the legal papers and I believe
those will be done by tomorrow.
Woito/ We are all working like mad on them.
Kubby/ One of the things I don't quite understand is about the
ravine and the water retention. Is it going to be dry or wet?
Miklo/ (Can't hear).
ITEM NO. 61.
Consider a resolution for approval of the
preliminary plat of W.B. Development, a 40.30 acre,
8-lot commercial subdivision located southwest of
the Highway 1/218 interchange.
Miklo/ W.B. Development. This is a preliminary subdivision. This is
the Winebrenner Ford Tract that was recently annexed and zoned
CI-1. Approx. 40 acres and would be divided into eight
commercial lots and there would also be one out lot by which
would contain the storm water facility .... wet bottom
facility ...... With the smaller detention basin there they no
longer were concerned about the location vie a vis the
Thisrepresents only arsesonebly sccurstetrenscrlptinn oftbelows City council meetingof November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 23
sanitary sewer easement.
Horow/ So it can be a wet bottom?
Miklo/ Right. I believe the applicant wants to use it as an amenity
or an attractive feature of the development .... There will be
some trees that will need to be removed .....
Kubby/ What does that mean in terms of the number of trees being
removed?
Miklo/ We don't have an actual count... (refers to map). The
property is most heavily wooded to the south of the ravine so
there will be a substantial number of trees that will be
retained on the site.
Throg/ I know the Sensitive Areas Ordinance has not been adopted
yet ..... I am curious about how it would affect this site ....
Miklo/ The slopes would kick in the Sensitive Areas Ordinance which
would require ..... sensitive area development plan ..... The
Sensitive Areas Ordinance does allow facilities such as storm
water facilities in sensitive areas prouided that they are
designed to minimize the amount of destruction of trees or
earth moving .... You would determine whether this design was
acceptable or you could require consideration of a design that
would require less grading ....
Nov/
Miklo/ In this particular case, it would be a rezoning so it would
require both council and P/Z Commission review and the
decision would be yours.
Kubb¥/
Miklo/ In this location either a wet or dry bottom basin could
function.
Kubby/ .... discretion of the developer.
Miklo/ Right.
Horow/
Thisrepresents only8 masonably accuratetranscription ~ theIowa Citycouncil me~lng of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . . Council Work Session Page 24
Council A~enda/Time 95-131 S2
1. Kubby/ I had a P/Z thing for my council time but I wouldn't want
to make Bob wait on it. Can I do it now?
Horow/ Sure.
Kubby/ Ed Cole had come to us, formal meeting, and I didn't see any
information about his proposed development in our packet.
Atkins/ (Can't hear)
Miklo/ There are several issue with flood plain, a permit from the
health Department .... lack of water service... permit from the
railroad ....
Kubby/ ...He has a letter from the Corp of Engineers about the
Flood Plain permit .... He says a letter of intent with the RR
.... He says we have all that stuff.
Miklo/ We don't at this point.
Kubby/ How can we live in such different realities? ....
Atkins/
NOTE: Council Agenda/Time continued after Economic Development Ad
Hoc Committee discussion.
Thisrepresents only oreasonablyaccuratetranscrlptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 25
Near South Side Redevelopment Plan
Horow/
95-131 S2
Franklin/ As you recall this was something that you all requested
that we get into when we were working through the elements of
the Near South Side and we have hired a consultant who has
gone through with you .... So that none of this should be new
to you... Design issues on the Near South Side. It retains the
existing land uses that are proposed in the Near South Side
Redevelopment Plan. The consultants looked at the idea of
mixing commercial and residential uses throughout the area and
advises against that and that it would be better to
concentrate those commercial uses in certain commercial
areas .... Primarily to do with the market as opposed to
incompatibility .... Better to focus on the d.t. expansion
blocks to Court Street and the Rock Island Depot area. A
number of ideas were presented by the consultant ..... closing
of Clinton Street didn't go over at all. In terms of the
Advisory Committee and their role, our last meeting with them
was kind of wind this up... discussion by them... debate about
rather they were recommending this plan or indicating to the
council that they had participated .... a working group with
the consultant... They were a working group with the
consultant and were passing this plan onto the council for
your adoption if you should so choose. Because they presented
different groups there was a reluctance to say yes we endorse
this plan... a very important... to some members of the
committee .... They are passing this onto you... process ....
positive one... A lot of things in this plan which are related
to public investments .....
Throg/ That meeting was there was one member of the Committee that
felt very strongly that he or she was not willing firm support
for the plan as a whole ..... Final Dlan definitely reflects
his involvement and participation ....
Franklin/ It did reflect their participation and though they
accepted that they could not say as a whole we want to do all
of these parts of the plan and that is not to diminish any of
this. Some main features of the plan: The district concepts
within an area wide cohesiveness which is dealt with through
the streetscape elements; a parking arrangements; green links
concept ..... The biggest public projects... are 1-Burlington
Street median and 2-Civic Park on the federal lot site. There
could be out of this plan suggestions for changing the zoning
in the area .... There are certain design provision within our
exiting ordinance and we will see with time and different
Thisrepresents only areasonably accurmetranscrlption ofthelowa Citycouncil meetingofNovember20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 26
project whether that is getting where we want to be. Tonight
we were just going to take any questions that you have about
the plan. Tomorrow night the consultants will be here for the
p.h. and we wanted them to do the presentation during the
public meeting so that people can see what has been worked on
here because a lot of work has gone into it ..... Public needs
to see the visuals on this ..... Jeff and David were working on
this most closely with the consultants .....
Nov/ I don't understand some of their visuals.. drawings...
airplanes at the intersections, for example... page 7.
Franklin/ Those are arrows .....
Nov/ Why are the arrows there?
Franklin/ There are for the visual links between south of
Burlington and the north and not only visual but also the
pedestrian links ..... This is the background analysis.
wouldn't put too much into that. It is to reflect what exists
there .... The meat of it is in the overall design plan that is
on page 11 ..... This will be a color graphic in a final
presentation. We are also getting a poster of this which will
be the PR piece that we put out on it that will be in one
sheet of paper... design plan... different visual concepts ....
Horow/ Has that been taken to the other government institutions
such as the Board of Education?
Franklin/ They were on the Committee ....
Horow/ Anyone for the federal government?
Franklin/ No, we didn't get a participant from the General Services
Administration ..... big thing... is to start working with the
GSA about that whole block... the whole thing is going to take
years and it is going to be dependent upon.. decisions about
what kind of investment you want to make here ..... One
issue .... you will be ask to set priorities about where you
are spending money on public spaces and we are going to be
starting working with some people about a d.t. strategy which
Steve has mentioned before coming up after the first of the
year ...... Questions about where we should put our public
dollars in the short term ..... some priorities .... It is
timing.
Horow/ Any questions?
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of November 20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995
council Work Session
Page 27
Throg/.... There are certain elements to this plan I like quite
bit... green link concept... the enclaves.. Burlington Street
boulevard... I think the most potentially exciting part of
this is the multi-use civic park .... also the Rock Island
Square .... interesting and attractive. I wish there were more
to it .... get some more creative aspiring elements... These
proposals are good .... my hear doesn't soar and I miss that.
Horow/
Kubby/ When I was reading about the civic park... multi-use
space... made me think I might vote for a parking facility ....
public purpose space that happens to hold some cars as
well .....
Lehman/ It is a very very difficult space to work with.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-133 SIDE 1
Lehman/ I agree with you Jim but I think they had very little to
work with ....
Kubby/
Lehman/ ...I think there was not as much to work with as we would
have like to have had.
Franklin/ If we had approached it on an urban renewal type of thing
where there is some entity that can put together... you can do
more exciting things to make it happen.
Throg/ It provides a frame work ....
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowaCitycouncll meetingof November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 28
Economic Development Ad Hoc Committee 95-133 S1
Franklin/ You are making appointments tonight. It was my
understanding that was .... going to make selections for the
different categories. It is up to council-
Horow/ Okay folks. We have had input .... I contacted the council
elect members .... We can get this xeroxed and move on to
another issue and come back to it ....
NOTE: Economic Development Ad Hoc Committee Discussion continued
after Water/Sewer Rates Discussion.
Thls represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WS112095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 29
Water/Sewer Rates
Horow/
95-133 S1
Atkins/ We placed this on the agenda... doing exactly what you told
us to do. Tomorrow you simply call the hearing .... There have
been some minor changes. Waste water had changed because of
the DNR ....
Throg/ Before I came here I was inclined to not to want to do the
p.h.s ..... I don't know that I am strongly opposed to the
idea of a p.h .... It is a complex issue ..... What I did think
was that when we last discussed this there were some specific
proposals that were made and I am pretty clear that I said
that I couldn't support a rate increase without some other
things kind of going along with it and I think I circulated a
memo along those lines and I don't think we have seen anything
directly come back to that .... I am not trying to make a real
big deal out of this. All I am trying to do is say that my
recollection is that at the time I said I personally could not
support a rate increase until we had something, a water impact
fee, in front of us so that we would be able to vote on that
at the same night that we voted on the other thing .....
Nov/
I think this is pretty far a head of time to hold a p.h. for
a rate increase that goes into effect in March. How many
readings do we need?... How far ahead of time?
Atkins/ ...late January. P.h. on 5th of December ....
Kubby/ Does it make sense to have two different councils vote? ....
Atkins/ ...simply trying to expedite the matter ....
Kubby/
Pigott/ Maybe new councilors want to talk about this issue in a
different way in campaigns .... ought to let that new council
come in here and talk about the issue.
Horow/ What does this do to the actual financial plan?
Atkins/ We are going to be letting bids for sewer project.
Horow/ Can't really hang up what needs to be started in terms of
construction.
Pigott/
Thls represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WS112095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session Page 30
Kubby/ We can even hold the p.h. before then and they can come and
listen. But to have the new council be the first consideration
Lehman/ When would be the third reading?
Atkins/ It is scheduled now for the second meeting in January.
Lehman/
Throg/ That would mean that this council would vote on first
consideration and the second council would come in affected by
that vote ....
Council/
Nov/ Marian... four weeks between meetings in December and January.
Karr/ I think Don has a proposed schedule that he might want to
discuss with you.
Don ¥ucuis/ There are a couple of options ....
Karr/ This has to be published and in effect by end of January
because the rates go in March 1 for February usage.
Yucuis/
Kubby/ If we were delayed by two weeks .....
Karr/
Yucuis/ Depends on when the p.h. would be closed and the first
reading would be.
Karr/ And the ability to waive the second.
Pigott/
Baker/
Atkins/
Nov/ Marian's last memo said we were going to have an
organizational meeting-
Karr/ Right now you are scheduled to go from December 19 to January
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WS112095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 31
16, cancelling the regular meeting of the 1st and 2nd. That
does not mean that you have to cancel that ..... You have the
possibility of the 8th and 9th .... special meeting... off week
or any other time.
Kubby/ Does going two weeks screw up having a March 1 rate
increase?
Yucuis/ You would have to count on collapsing .... pass and adopt on
the 30th.
Karr/ Or a special meeting.
Kubby/ .... you have to do something ahead of time to the bills ....
Karr/ It is February usage.
Nov/
Woito/ Remember the problems you had with unequal billings. So now
we only charge after a full period... monthly.. easier than it
use to be. You can only start charging after the effective
date of the billing for that billing period ....
Horow/ All right, folks, where are we.
Atkins/ I think you have to decide what council you want to vote on
this ordinance... If you want the new ones, tell us that and
we will back into that.
Pigott/ Yes, that is what I want.
Atkins/ All right then I would recommend ...schedule the p.h. on
the 5th .... we will get together... back into the schedule ....
Kubby/ What is the time frame on the impact fee?
Atkins/ Legal question ....
Woito/ I am waiting for Public Works and Howard R. Green to give me
the formula.
Kubby/ Is that reasonable to request that as a goal that we can do
these together?
Woito/ Don't look at me. Look at Steve.
This represents only s reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WSI 12095
November
Arkins/
Council/
Atkins/
Lehman/
Atkins/
numbers.
20, 1995 Council Work Session
(Can't hear).
(All talking).
We have got a lot of work in the thing .....
Even if we were to put in a water impact fee...
The
Page 32
rates will go up. It won't dramatically change those
Lehman/ You can continue to work on the impact fees .... wait for
however long it takes to get the impact fee.
Kubby/ ....
Horow/ Your preference is to set the p.h. for December 5?
Lehman/ ..... I suggest that we encourage the rapid development of
this impact thing but still go ahead and do what we know we
have to do.
Horow/
Atkins/ Let the new council have the final say on the rates ....
Kubby/ First and final reading ....
Nov/
Baker/ ...it is going to happen.
Woito/ I know that it is not a priority for all of you.
Council/ (All talking).
Atkins/ I will give you a memo on the impact fee and an update and
have that available to you by a meeting on the 4th ....
Horow/ Do I also read that you want the same schedule for the
sewer?
Council/ (All talking).
Kubby/ In your schedule when you talk about a 20% down payment. We
talked about a 30% water rate increase. So that is no
different? .....
Thlsrepresents only areasonably accurmetranscripfion ofthelowa City council meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 33
Throg/ ..... In the rate schedule for water, the rates are slightly
different for- The water larger for 1997, 98 and 2000 than
they were back in July when we first considered this stuff. I
am a little bit puzzled by that.
Yucuis/ The major change in the rates and why they went up and are
a little bit different than what we saw before was when we
issued the bonds prior to July 1 in a calendar year, we are
going to have an interest payment and when they are revenue
bonds we have to set cash aside. It is a July 1 payment which
on our books is a different FY but we have to accumulate cash,
put it in the bank ahead of time, so that when July comes
around we have the cash to pay for those bonds and I hadn't
factored that interest in .... have four months of interest
payments July 1 and then in January 1 and then in July 1
again. That was not factored in.
Throg/ That doesn't work out consistently from year to year. Why?
Yucuis/ If we have a little higher rate in the first year or two,
that is going to generate more cash in those years... Your
base is higher ....
Throg/ I can see the rate increase is actually smaller for 2000,
2001.
Throg/ In year 2000 we are trying to generate $10 million to pay
20% cash on the project .... That and the interest payments...
have enough cash at the end of that FY. Main issue was
interest costs that weren't factored in in the FY ahead of
when I had factored them in originally. So we are generating
more cash in one year for to make payments on July 1.
Atkins/ And you are still considering only revenue bonds?
Yucuis/ Correct.
Atkins/ ...We may recommend some GO
Yucuis/ We have the bids coming into tomorrow on the waste water
project... that will help determine what size of a bond issue
we will have. We haven't finalized how we are going to issue
the bonds ..... Looking at GO debt for that $6 million water
bond .... Hopefully the rates on a GO issue will be better than
on a revenue sharing ....
Kubby/ Other issue... passed a resolution saying we were going to
Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccurstetranscription ofthelowa Cl~ council meeting of November20,1995.
WS!12095
November 20, 1995
Council Work Session
Page 34
have a low income policy. We haven't done anything .... I feel
obligated for us to implement something.
¥ucuis/ I am hoping to get a draft out at this next informal packet
this week .....
Kubby/ My preference would be that we would pass some kind of low
income policy with the third reading of the ordinance.
Yuculs/ The low income policy... has to come back to you for your
review... approval .... so you will see a first draft.
Council/
Horow/ Thanks, Don.
This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 35
Economic Development Ad Hoc Committee Continued 95-133 S1
Horow/ You have before you a memo of November 3. The only person..
suggested by Larry that Jim's name be put under Citizens. Do
you want this? ....
Throg/ ...I don't think it is a wise thing for me ....
Horow/ Stays with the nine names that are here .... Any other names
under any other category?
Baker/ George Starr-
Horow/ Under Citizens.
Nov/ I was pushing to have somebody in here to have some knowledge
of zoning and we ended up with both Kathy Johnson and George
Starr. Also John McD and D. Courtney know a good deal about
zoning.
Horow/
Kubby/ I just asked if Bruno wanted to be on this list, too.
Pigott/ I hadn't thought about it ..... awkward doing that ....
Horow/ More we have of people not
recommendation
[Council holds discussion of appointments]
[Council appointed the following members
Development Ad Hoc Co~mmittee]:
Citizens: George Starr, Jeff Cox, Derek
Carolyn Gross
University of Iowa: Mary New
Small Business: Vicki Lensing
Industry: Richard Ferguson
Environmental GrouDs: Pam Ehrhardt
Economic Development Organizations: Bob Sierk
Labor: William Gerhard
Sure I would be happy to...
on council...
citizen's
to the Economic
Maurer, Cheryl Witney,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WS112095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session
Resource People: Tom Bullington, Kathryn Kurtho
Page 36
Th~$representsonly areasonably accuratetransc~p~on of ~elowa CI~ council mestingofNovember20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session Page 37
Council Aqenda/Time Continued 95-133 S1
2. Lehman/ Chamber Organizational Dinner is December 4 ..... a work
session night.
Horow/ And the Fringe Area Agreement council discussion.
Lehman/ ..... I would like very much to change this but if we got
that going ....
Throg/ Difficult to reschedule ....
Lehman/ It is really a fun fun thing to go to.
3. Nov/ (Agenda #8 & 9- Sale to HACAP) I have a question about the
sale to HACAP because they are not likely to be paying
property tax and we should at least be able to collect a
payment in lieu of tax .... this is the same building that had
a fire and these things happen. I think this group should be
asked to pay something. Think about it.
Woito/ I need to know if we need to put that in the contract.
Kubby/ That would have to go back to the Board of Directors of
HACAP which doesn't meet until January .... It may postpone ....
If it changes the numbers...
Nov/ I think somebody on staff should figure out what the amount
would have to be to cover fire protection and ask them what
that amount would mean in terms... We cannot ignore the issue.
Atkins/ ...... I will calculate it out.
Nov/ ....
Arkins/ I will look.
Kubby/ Contact HACAP and see if that would make or break a deal for
them.
Atkins/ I can calculate-
Horow/Contact HACAP as well.
Atkins/ I will try.
4. Nov/ (Agenda #17-Budgeted Position Sanitary Division) Why are we
talking about hiring a new recycling employee for a job that
This represents only 8 reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 38
doesn't start until March?...
Atkins/ Just starting the process .... get the thing up and running
Throg/ Steve's memo responding to the Press Citizen editorial
about the property taxes. Thanks for the memo. I think we need
to be more public in the response ..... It was really
misleading... editorial .... written by the mayor... urge us to
urge our mayor, with Steve's assistance, to write an
editorial.
Horow/ With Steve's assistance ....
Council/ (All talking).
Horow/ Great, Steve, we will work on it.
Throg/ Memo from Steve having to do with Sam Doyle and his
artwork. And I read that pretty carefully .... I see merit in
the art... controversial... important to talk about the art
while it is being displayed ..... it is so controversial ....
it evokes emotion... What I wanted to suggest that we could
suggest other possible locations ..... I don't know if there
are any .... Other is that we would want to give Doyle an
opportunity to suggest ways to insure that someone would be
present when the art is displayed. I want to respond to it in
a positive way .....
Nov/
... He did not give us any physical description of the art
that he wanted to put in that city space .... We get design
review approval .....
Kubby/ ...I think it would be grand to have some temporary display
.... different kinds of art activities in the ramp .... How
can we allow art to happen in the Chauncey Swan Ramp .... ?
Throg/
Nov/ ...Refer it to a DR Committee ..... Have to judge each
particular artist .....
Throg/ There were reasons not to accept the application... need
more information .... other possible applications...
Horow/ Some sort of a system for all art? ....
Thisrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscrlption ofthelowa City councilmeetingofNovember20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20,
Nov/ .....
1995 Council Work Session Page 39
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-133 SIDE 2
Nov/ I want something to say this is appropriate in this location
and this is not.
Kubby/ ...under what conditions could we accept ....
Lehman/ I concur with Steve's letter .... what is appropriate and
what isn't... simplest answer would be no .....
Council/ (All talking).
Horow/ ...subcommittee... I happen to agree with Steve's memo ....
May I suggest that Naomi and Karen if you wish to discuss this
and come up with some sort of conclusion, do so.
Kubby/
Atkins/ ...security, liability, if the art is damaged .... and if it
is for sale .....
Kubby/ I am not interested in taking that on right now. I am
interested in taking on the specific request ....... certain
kind of conditions ....
Atkins/ .... talk about it if you like.
Kubby/ I will talk with Sam Doyle about revising his .....
Throg/ Concern we are coming across as us having censored his art
which speaks of the black male experience .....
Baker/ o.. raise it tomorrow night .....
Horow/ I think Sam has already achieved one goal...
to discuss the
gotten council
issue .... If Karen would help Steve with this
Nov/ ... make that opportunity available to every artist in Iowa
City ..... This is not a simple process ....
Kubby/ I think that is creating a whole layer of stuff that we
don't need in this point in time .... word will get out if
public facilities are available ....
Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscriptlonofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 40
Horow/ Thanks.
Pigott/ Linda Woito was good enough to send us a memo about the
mobile home landlord/tenant ordinance and I would be
interested in putting that on a work session for discussion.
Horow/ ..... there is no way ..... This is one of the issues that I
wanted to ask you .... City Manager's November 6th Upcoming
Issues. Perhaps that should be added onto that .....
Kubby/ I wouldn't want to limit it to HIS issues .....
Horow/ Misc.
Atkins/ At least put it on there to frame the issues.
Horow/ Mobile home landlord/tenant ordinance. Okay. Just put it
under misc. right now.
8. Kubby/ We got a memo from Linda Woito about the prevailing wage
requirement ... waste water treatment connection project is
going to be bid out tomorrow. There are a couple of different
ways to get at this issue .... self sufficient family issue
when we talk about prevailing wage... couple of other ways...
not for this project but for future ones .... 1-Is requiring
that contractors have health insurance for their employees and
2-To have a project labor agreements that standardizes the
wages... working conditions ..... Two things that we can look
into ....
Woito/ I talked to Public Works Director who said- And he sent me
a resolution ..... and in 1988-89 .... passed a sales tax to
pay for it... city prevailing wage... labor requirements... It
is Clintoh's own prevailing wage and it is based on 1991.
However their attorney had not read that Supreme Court
Opinion... they were no longer going to do it. I don't know
why ...... Supreme Court Decision... does not like that notion
of artificially either lowering or raising the wage or the
benefits ....
Kubby/ ... I guess I would like us to explore those two avenues ....
Woito/ It may be a short research project ..... nobody is doing
Boston Harbor ...... where you enter in to the agreement... the
contractor ..... they they would promise to only hire union
labor... problems with it ..... Iowa is a right to work state
Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonebly accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofNovember 20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 41
Baker/ .... any discussion about what responsible means?
Woito/ Responsible means they have to have the ability to perform
and if you had a prior practice of a very bad experience ....
that goes to responsibility. It is a term to be judged by the
city council.
Baker/ ... level of wages as being irresponsible.
Woito/ I don't think the Iowa supreme Court would be- It is a word
like reasonable and we lawyers like words like that because
they are fact dependent .... You have to have certain facts ....
Benefits are just another way of looking at wages, I think.
Baker/
Woito/ You know there is no Iowa Supreme Court dealing with
responsible ......
Atkins/
Kubby/
Kubby/ (Agenda #22- Toy Vehicles) I want to talk about toy
vehicles. We got a real big memo .... This seemed like a lot of
information. Suggestion was to do one of two things... dump
ordinance or defer it... Don't want to go ahead and adopt the
ordinance tomorrow night... staff has said we now don't feel
we should prohibit these vehicles in parking lots. So it makes
me hesitant ..... So I guess until we have really talked about
this my preference would be to defer things indefinitely. I
couldn't support the ordinance in closing things off until we
have created some other options.
Horow/ I understand what you are coming from .... The city right now
is not protected legally and it would be better to have this
ordinance in place .... I would rather have something in place
that protects the city than wait.
Kubby/ We have certain provisions ....
Woito/ You don't need an ordinance for Joe Fowler and his people to
say these are our ramps, they are our property, this is
prohibited. You don't need an ordinance for that. It is a
simple practice in procedure .... If there is an accident ....
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WS1 q 2095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 42
assumption of the risk .... dangerous... City is never going to
be able to walk away from liability in any city owned property
Pigott/
Nov/
Woito/ We got that cleared with Captain Harney. I told him the
police were inviting the rollerbladers in there specifically.
So he was going to ut a stop to that.
Kubby/ I don't want to stop those rollerbladers.
Woito/ Until you guys can sit down and talk about it.
Horow/ ..... University-
Woito/ They are actually reviewing their policies also.
Kubby/ ...this is a form of transportation... recreation. It is not
going to go away.
Woito/ I called the attorneys and they are looking at this whole
policy ...... University .... prohibit all of these play
vehicles in the ... institutional roads .....
Horow/ Where do they suggest that they go?
Nov/ .... they are on city property.
Woito/ .... the secretary told me they were looking at it.
Nov/ They said they use to play on University property and they
were told not to play there anymore.
Kubby/ Maybe what we need to do is get together with the University
and work on this together ....
Nov/
Woito/ I have a phone call in, Naomi.
Horow/ Number of people who are working on this ..... University has
not responded ..... Do you wish to take the final vote on this
or not?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 43
Kubby/ No.
Lehman/ .... If we vote on it and we pass it, it is going to put a
lot of pressure on council to get something else passed in a
hurry .....
Kubby/ Look at the realities... three new people coming on trying
to get up to speed on some issues .... This is not going to be
high on the priority list ....
Lehman/
Horow/
Pigott/ So why would we hurry to pass an ordinance if it is
winter...?
Nov/
Pigott/ ..... we can prohibit skating in the ramps .... it is a bad
ordinance .... You got to change the whole thing as soon as we
adopt it ....
Lehman/
Kubby/ I am probably going to move tomorrow night to defer this
indefinitely .....
10. Horow/ I have got a number of things. I have asked the United
Way Joint City/County Human Service Funding Hearings .....
Karen and Dean Thornberry to be our representatives to this
and they have accepted that.
Kubby/ There is one Thursday I can't go, December 7 ....
Arkins/ Is it appropriate for you to appoint council members
without sitting?
Karr/ They aren't sworn in yet.
Horow/ ... people just show up anyway .... Your point is well taken,
Steve ....
Woito/ Do we have an organizational meeting scheduled?
Karr/ January 4 at noon, tentative one.
Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowaCiw counctl meetingofNovember20,1995.
WS112095
November 20, 1995
council Work Session
Page 44
11.
Horow/ I have already asked you to take a look at the City
Manager's November 6th memo to update or add any of these
issues. You have got to keep this thing up to date ....
12.
Horow/ Steve, the memo that we got from Rick Fosse on prairie
vegetation along Rohret Road. can we send this to the various
neighborhood associations ....
Arkins/ Sure.
Kubby/
13. Horow/ Marian, the Rules Committee-
Karr/ Rules Committee, December 4, 6:00 PM for the HR Coramission
By-laws ..... We will allow the HR Commission to review it one
last time at their meeting on the 27th.
Horow/ Okay, that is Karen and me at 6:00 PM 4th of December.
14.
Horow/ The Board of Supervisors have asked me to-with me, ask
somebody else to sit down with them and just talk about the
letter that came from Charlie and whether any of the issues
that are in that letter are capable of being resolved ..... No
decision making. I have asked Ernie if he would join with me,
getting together with Charlie and Don ..... They are concerned
Throg/ Karin Franklin .... she had a very different reading ....
Horow/ ...I see no problem on us just sitting down with them.
Karr/ Is this the Fringe Area Agreement.
Horow/ Yes, the Fringe Area Agreement, right.
Pigott/ They have some proposal .... about that letter. Is there
something else to talk about? ....
Horow/ They re~lly want eyeball to eyeball with a couple of council
members to see where we are on some of these issues ..... If
council and Board of Supervisors take that letter ....
assumptions .... Number of issues that we can eliminate that
are perceived as being troublesome, the better it will be for
us to discuss it among ourselves.
Baker/ I forgot I was going to bring this up under council time I
Th~srepre$ent$~n~~8re8$~n8b~~~ccu~8tetr8nscr~pt~~n~fthe~~W~Cit~~~und~m8et~ng~fN~~ember2~~19$5.
W$1120~
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Page 45
am having second thoughts about whether we should even meet
with the Board of Supervisors before the new year. I am not
not sure .... 1-It puts us under artificial time constraints
and 2- after the discussion about the water rate increase ....
This is something that the new council is going to have to get
resolved. At this point I don't see us getting it resolved in
the next couple of weeks. That was just my impression right
now.
Horow/ I would hate to see that because the more that you talk with
them, the more progress-
Pigott/ Is the council's position likely to change with new-
Horow/
Kubby/ ...not so much where we are slated to grow but how we deal
with that growth ..... I think it should be two other people
.... maybe Ernie and somebody else or you and somebody else
Horow/ What does the council feel about this?
Nov/ .... we have not talked about it.
Baker/ At this point for this council to have a position seems a
little bit .... in appropriate ......
Throg/ ...I also suspect that the Board of Supervisors would prefer
to meet with the new council as well and if there is
negotiation involved... they would be inclined to meet with a
council that they think is more likely to agree with them ....
Horow/ The invitation went out to me~ to this council ....
Pigott/
Horow/ They are concerned that there is an apparent perception that
we are drifting apart and they really don't see it that way
Lehman/ ...I think there are probably a number of things where we
really have no basic disagreement. I think those kinds of
things should be set aside .... I think there are a lot of
things that we agree on.
Kubby/ How do we know that? .....
Thisrepresents enlyereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of November20,1995.
WSl12095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 46
Horow/ I think we know.
Throg/ I would want to hear what Karin Franklin has to say about
the Fringe Area letter that Charlie sent us. I want her to
explain to us what she saw in the letter ....
Baker/ What about tomorrow night...?
Nov/ No .....
Horow/ She certainly told me what the issues are ..... we have
promised ourselves that we are going to talk about this ....
This is not going to be resolved before the end of the year
Nov/ When do you think that the Board of Supervisors wants to get
together to talk?
Kubby/ It shouldn't be until after we have met as a council.
Horow/ I had the exact opposite reaction ..... some things Ernie and
I could eliminate.
Kubby/ How could you have the power and authority to do that until-
Horow/
Kubby/ A lot of times... we all end up having different perceptions
about what we said about certain kinds of things ..... until we
have made it really clear to ourselves what those positions
are, I fell uncomfortable having you and Ernie represent us
and possible say things .... might be construed what the
council has agreed to.
Baker/ I have no problems with private conversations ..... just
getting a sense of where the problems are .... I do have a
sense that this council, this 7 people, if they try to resolve
this, would have a different resolution than the next seven
people .....
Kubby/
Throg/ .... What is our schedule? Are we suppose to meet on the 4th
and that is the informal discussion .... let's do it.
Horow/ Do you have any problems with me getting together with
Charlie and Don?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the lows City council meeting of November 20, 1995,
WS112095
November 20, 1995 Council Work Session Page 47
Kubby/ As an individual council member .....
Pigott/
Kubby/ As long as you make it very clear to them that you are there
as individual ....
Horow/ There will be no decision making on this.
Kubby/ That is a whole different issue as to whether you are there
representing the group or whether there representing
yourselves.
Council/ (All talking).
Horow/
15.
Karr/ I received an invitation today to go to the council and
council elect. Invited to an open house tomorrow morning, 8:00
Am to 9:00 AM, Driver License Office. They are kicking off the
issuance of a new driver's license and renewal system .....
16.
Karr/ I do need to get the information in for the December 6
training session for new councils. Again, I stress, it is new
councils as well as new council members and that is at
Williamsburg, December 6, Holiday Inn, 5:00 PM-8:15 pm.
17.
Karr/ Again a reminder. If any of you are going to be out of
town, to let me know so we can jot it down, especially right
after the first of the year when we will be looking at budget
and some other pending items .....
This represents only o reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowe City council meeting of November 20, 1995.
WS112099
November 20, 1995 . Council Work Session
Appointments 95-133 S2
Senior Center Commission - Kenneth Mobily
Adjourned: 10:20 PM
Page 48
Thisrepresents only 8reasonably accurate ~anscrlptlon of ~81owa CltycouncilmeetingofNovember20,1995,
WSl12095