HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-11-27 TranscriptionNovember 27, 1995
council Work Session
7:50 PM
Council: Horow, Baker, Kubby, Lehman, Nov, Pigott, Throg.
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Milkman, Boothroy.
Tapes: 95-137, all.
Housin~ Plan 95-137 Sl
Baker/ I would like to suggest that this issue be turned over to
the next council .... Got three people going off and three
people coming on .... Dee Norton is not here tonight .....
council/ (All talking).
Baker/ I would say let's thank everyone for coming and let's go
home.
Lehman/ Larry I think you have a point but I also think there are
some things that Steve needs to know.
Baker/ I would do the same for tomorrow night ....
Nov/ We need to give some guidelines to staff on this public
private partnership ....
Horow/ Going to need more than one meeting ..... What is your
pleasure?
Kubby/ I think the majority of the new council is here and we
should proceed .....
Horow/ Karin, I have asked you to recap .....
Council/ (All talking).
Franklin/ First of all just a recap for the new council members but
to refresh the old timers, too. The last time that you had a
discussion of ho~sing on September 30 we talked about a
definition of the problem and basically we are looking at
three different approaches or facets of the housing problem.
The ability of modern income people to enter the housing
market and move out of the rental market. The lack of rental
units affordable to low income people and the lack of adequate
basic shelter for the homeless. We talked about the policies
that are in place .... that we approach this issue from a
programic as well as a regulatory aspect ..... funding of
programs being the most aggressive way and most active way
that the city has been involved in dealing with housing issues
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and then the conclusions of your discussion were included in
Tim Shields piece that he sent to you and the page that is
pertinent is the team agreements and that Housing Policy
Review that was sent out in the packet to you and what you
resolved to do was to explore the concept of inclusionary
zoning and I believe... in terms of inclusionary zoning as it
applies to the multi-family rental market as well as to
subdivision and s.f. development. That the council agreed to
study the fair share concept that is a geographical
distribution of low to moderate income housing throughout the
community. That you agreed to review the criteria, the
guidelines for density and that was something that we said was
going to be part of the comp plan review and this was that
whole notion of when it says 2-8 dwelling units per acre in
the comp plan, what does that mean in terms of the zoning and
make sure that that is clear ..... That you need to analyze the
long term viability of programs and what goals you have for
them. That you establish some kind of a community process to
further develop the housing policy to include neighborhood
associations and other key players ...... to introduce this
concept of fair share and see what neighborhoods were willing
to accept .....
Throg/ To involve them in the process of determining what would be
the fair share ....
Franklin/ I have to say I am not particularly sure about the
ability to go through that and do that .... going to hear from
neighborhoods that we have all we need here .....
Throg/ Wouldn't hurt to have that on the record ..... if they all
say that to one another ....
Horow/ Social behavior modification... lay a guilt trip on them.
Kubby/ Talk about ..... attitudes .... Talk them through the bind
that we have been in .....
Horow/ Question... at City STEPS p.h .... challenged people to
identify where the city supported homes ....... mixed blessing
..... Different neighborhoods are going to react differently
Council/
Franklin/ What I am hearing... it is more to discuss this housing
issue with neighborhoods outside a particular project .....
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Thorn/ Before it gets to the point that it was tonight.
Kubby/
Pigott/
Franklin/ So we can put together something as
work in terms of the council's
neighborhoods ....
to how that might
involvement in
Baker/ ...when you talk about what is the fair share, I assume
numbers... types.
Throg/
Baker/ Single family, multi-family, ranges of incomes involved
...... Concern is this... people will say something because
they know it is politically correct to say... certain opinion
..... Until the real project hits them that nothing that they
have said before is going to prepare them for acceptance of
the reality .....
Kubby/ That is one of the purposes of the process... we have to
provide leadership... attitude towards public housing ....
Horow/ .... getting together with the developers.
Franklin/ That is the next item which is council agreed
potential public private partnerships ..... that
where Ben comes in.
to discuss
is exactly
Horow/ .... More than just ..... Greater Iowa City Housing
Fellowship.
Kubby/ With Saratoga Springs you had for profit developer .....
complicated partnership
Thorn/ ..... Only other comment that I haue on this fair share
thing is I think that when property is annexed into the city
that would be a good time to say X number of, this amount of
area is for this like they used to do for schools .... Do that
when we annex property ....
Kubby/ Fair share concept ..... land that is not developed yet...
maybe the city would buy a lot in Walnut Ridge .... F Street
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Throg/ The motivation is to find some way to keep from
concentrating lower income housing in one part of the city and
thereby keep from creating the ghetto like conditions that
exist in other cities.
Thorn/
Horow/ Area between Kirkwood and Highway 6 are... well scattered
affordable houses, individual houses ....
Kubby/ May not be we do total scatter site of total clusters. It
may be we do a little bit of a bunch of stuff to make a lot of
things happen ....
Franklin/ That is something that you are going to have to wrestle
with... What does the council mean by cluster? What do you
mean by scattered? What do you mean by inclusionary? We will
get into that very specifically ....
Tonight we were going to talk about public or private public
partnerships. In terms of what we do now, Marianne is going to
address that ..... Projects... we do already are in fact a
partnership .... Partnerships are those kinds of circumstances
in which both parties bring to it some piece of it and work
together toward some common end ..... Marianne is going to go
over some of the partnerships that we already do and then I
want to talk a little bit about some of the difficulties ....
Milkman/ Just to remind you that practically every CDBG project we
do involves some form of public-private .... Most to the CDBG
money .... goes to human service agencies and it can be used
for a variety of things .... We have a partnership with HACAP
..... We, as the public, are working with various parts of the
private sector. That may be non-profit and .... In the CDBG
Program that the city runs... rehab program... partners with
the private sectors, the homeowners. We are assisting the
homeowners to keep up their houses... In many of these
programs we are dealing with loans with the private sector
..... Getting the money back to use in our other programs.
Then we have the kind of partnerships where more than just the
city and a client or a human service agency .... like the one
we talked about tonight .... involves for profit as well as
non-profit, corporation .... many cases... a local lender ....
We do have a number of fairly extensive public private
partnerships in a lot of things that we do. The Rental Rehab
Program .... the idea was to raise the standards to improve
the conditions of the rental units but for ten years they had
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to keep the rents at affordable levels. They got something, we
got something ..... There are a lot of partnerships going in
the community ....
Horow/ Marianne .... have
private efforts .....
own .....
you seen any private efforts, totally
to spin off on this and do it on their
Milkman/ That is one of the things that I have always wanted to see
happen, that is not be a city initiative. Most of the time it
is a city initiative .... Greater Iowa city Housing Fellowship
on its own has a loan program with First National Bank for
deposits that is not city initiated .... Habitat for
Humanity ....
Horow/ Are there any others in there?
Milkman/ Sycamore View, I think there was one house built that was
like one of the Sycamore View houses .... I think the direction
that you are moving it seems to me to get more of the private
sector involved... I think is probably the way to go and also
to have much more emphasis on real mixed income units ...where
you build maybe 12-24 units but at least half of them are
market rate... maybe only 20% at lower rents... with a
subsidy... In many cases you don't even know which of the
units are subsidized projects like that.
Nov/ .... If you are dealing with individual homes and individual
lots, it is more difficult to get to that.
Milkman/ If somebody bought a couple of lots ..... and we subsidized
two or three homes in a 20 unit subdivision .... thy could
virtually identical...
Franklin/ I want to talk a few minutes about the barriers. Why is
it that we don't do more public private partnerships? .... It
is very complicated ..... Burns... and the Greenview Project
are two cases on point. The Burns Greater Iowa City Housing
Fellowship Project involved the city, private developer... the
non-profit... The funding sources were multiple and
complicated and having to occur in some kind of sequence with
things dependent upon the other ..... Low income tax credits
where there is a limited number of tax credits ...... Then
depends on people choosing to invest in those low income
housing tax credits. Secondary mortgage market. That plays a
factor .... lending institutions always plays a factor in these
projects, too ..... take away .... some of the local decision
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making. We can't do that because the secondary market says ....
It is very very complicated .... Federal rules, CDBG, HOME,
state rules... procedural rules that you have to go through
and then whatever rules we decide to impose. When you are
working with the public sector the scrutiny that is
involved... public .... Also the public scrutiny of your
financial situation .... has to take place at some level .....
The time that is involved .... With Greenview, the Burns
Project, the time that has been put into these projects is
phenomenal ..... For the private sector, that is a critical
factor. The incentives that are provided for the private
sector involvement sometimes don't outweigh all of this stuff
that you have to go through .... Then the long term management
obligations that you have to make sure that those projects
stay within that rental range and that you are always
targeting that income bracket. That is a long term commitment
Nov/ Is it worth it in this instance because there is a Greater
Iowa City Housing Fellowship that has agreed to administer?
Franklin/ Having a non-profit that is going to be involved
certainly does add to that .... Bob Burns has done a lot of
these projects .... he will do that ....
Nov/ Does he then administer the affordability for the next 20
years?
Franklin/ He hires a management company out of Des Moines that
manages his properties and they do that .... One thing that we
have in Iowa City... is major employers that really don't get
involved in the housing market ..... Our major employer is a
public institution .... We have a large institution that
generates a demand for housing that has made a policy decision
not to provide additional housing. That represents a challenge
for us ..... Then limited involvement of financial institutions
and utilities ..... Financial institutions are traditionally
fiscally conservative .... some of these projects require some
risk and how far an institution can go .... and secondary
mortgage market issue. Utility companies... who do get
involved .... Those are some of the things that are out there
that do act as barriers a lot of which we don't have a lot of
control over. If public money is going to be used, it is very
hard to say we are not going to have public scrutiny .... How
can we make that work a little better, that is something we
can talk about .... Maybe the dialogue with the neighborhood
associations and that has to keep ongoing ....
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Kubby/ In the last couple of years there really hasn't been
leadership from this body as individual or as a group .... We
need to pay attention to these issues ..... Community
Investment Act. Can we get a brief listing of who is doing
what? .... what their obligations are?...
Horowy Karen, we asked about this a couple of years ago... their
end of year reports ....
Nov/ Well, we are not assigning the reinvestment in the community
.... We accept what they have done .....
Pigott/ That is a tool that we have used that may be out there.
What other tools do you, Karin, see as ways to reduce the size
of our hurdles .... What is it that we can do?
Franklin/ It may be a very different type of project than what Bob
is involved in .... In the possible approaches to new
partnerships... trust funds. Now those can be publicly or
privately capitalized and trusts funds can be either revolving
loan funds in which you turn that money over .... or with
grants ......
Nov/ Perhaps a private employer might participate .....
Franklin/ How you get that to happen... the leadership coming from
somewhere to convince people ..... That there is an important
aspect of the community here that needs to be addressed and
gets that involvement.
Horow/ I think the community has challenged the council in terms of
its public involvement and aggressiveness in economic
development .... also need to be challenged in terms of its
involvement in housing .....
Thorn/ These are not new questions ..... We have got to look at the
whole scope .....
Throg/ That is a rationale for trust funds ....
Franklin/ Then you can keep that turning over.
Kubby/ And hopefully growing ..... We should contact the AFL ....
Horow/ Karin, is it useful, would it be prudent for the council to
actually be aggressive with the University? ..... in a nice
way say that we hope that we will continue the public public
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partnership that we have ..... Would it be prudent to be
aggressive on that?
Franklin/ .... I would approach it in as positive a way as possible.
Nov/
Horow/... University, in terms of their budget cutting procedures
.... legislators... feel University is spending too much
money... cut the funds that would be supporting housing ....
Nov/ I cannot imagine that happening at the legislative level ....
Pigott/
Nov/ The University decided long ago they will not build any more
housing .... private sector has taken care of it.
Horow/
Baker/
Mace Braverman/ ...Why don't you challenge the private sector like
the Homebuilders ..... to come up with a plan...?
Franklin/ ...I do have to vent... barriers study on affordable
housing. We, on two occasions, attempted to survey the
Homebuilders Association .... we got three responses for the
whole- I am calling the Homebuilders tomorrow in response to
Ben Moore's comments. So whatever you can do in that regard.
Braverman/ (Can't hear-in audience).
Nov/ The Housing Fellowship has proposed such and such, what will
the Homebuilders do to support it? ..... Come up with a
proposal .... Can we do it?
Kubby/ We did that with Sycamore View... people bid on it.
Arkins/ You appear to be discussing specifics but I am also hearing
you say you want us to be more aggressive?
Nov/ Yes.
Arkins/ That is what you want?
Nov/ How do you define aggressive?
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Atkins/ Theoretically if you want land, we can go and get it, own
it, put it out for proposal and build housing on it. That is
aggressive.
Baker/ We don't want to be quite that aggressive.
Nov/ I wasn't thinking of owning the land ....
Kubby/ ....
Braverman/ (Can't hear-in audience).
Council/ (All talking).
Franklin/ There are two other items...Land trust ..... You decide
where you want the housing to be and you buy the land...
Atkins/ We have had private developers. Bob Burns has said I can't
find any land or they won't sell it to me .... If they are not
going to sell you the land... you are wasting your time... If
you want us to be aggressive, define that for me. I just don't
think you are going to see the private developers come
knocking on your door .....
Braverman/ ...unless you put a carrot out there .... or at least the
interest rates.
Atkins/ We just put a carrot out on North Dubuque and it blew up in
our face.
Horow/ But if you keep in in those parts of the city where property
is going to be more expensive, then it is a self imposed
restriction.
Kubby/ Self imposed expansion in my
land is cheapest ..... to the
restricting ourselves-
mind .....
southeast
If we go where the
part or outside...
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-137 SIDE 2
Kubby/ I want to expand that availability and that may cost us
more.
Horow/ I don't totally disagree with you .... the fact that so many
people already commute to Iowa City for a job. I am more
concerned on getting a house that people can live at .... I
don't necessarily think that that has to be Iowa City.
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Kubby/ When we are using Iowa City allocated CDBG moneys, I don't
like .....
Horow/
Braverman/ I don't understand ....
Kubby/ We should be developing affordable housing in Iowa City ....
Braverman/ Give me your definition of affordable housing .....
Kubby/ I don't want to get into that.
Braverman/ I would like to know ....
Kubby/ When people are spending 30% of their gross annual income on
housing and utilities and no more than that. That is my
definition of affordable housing.
Braverman /
Kubby/ What is the income of people who are paying more than 30% of
income on housing. That is the need out there .....
Baker/
Pigott/ .... that is how aggressive do we want to get? ...... What
we need .... a menu of options to look .....
Atkins/ I would be happy to develop a menu .... private public
debate over defining a very term that you are trying to deal
with ..... You haven't come to an agreement on what you are
willing. I like the idea of challenge ..... X number of units
for this many people at this income level.
Kubby/ We know all that ..... All that information is here and all
that information has been broadcasted.
Franklin/ You are still going to come back to where is it going to
be ..... comes back to this group ..... I don't think it is
reasonable to talk about s.f. or duplex affordable housing for
80% median income group. It is not realistic .....
Braverman/ Let me tell you from experience ...... Pepperwood ....
Horow/ Mace, you are not getting picked up. You have got to get
closer.
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Braverman/ ....... If you would say that we are going to mandate in
a new neighborhood for public housing, you would have a riot
Kubby/ That is not at all what we are talking about .... a house
that would go on the open market .... mixed housing
neighborhood ....
Braverman/ Then the people who want that grandiose house like in
Walnut Ridge won't buy there... They will move to the
county... Walnut Ridge...expensive housing within the taxable
area. That is why it is there ..... You are extremely naive.
Kubby/ .... inclusionary zoning ....
Braverman/ I would like to know the population base of those areas.
Franklin/ Large project, that may be hundreds of acres, that have
areas that are set aside for townhouses, condos within a
larger area ..... That is one reason why it works... We sort
of did that in Windsor Ridge .... the opportunity.
Kubby/ That is what we did. We put out a challenge to the private
sector .... A private developer came to us... set up on the
front end ....
Horow/
Franklin/ This is a perfect segue to infrastructure improvements.
To make that neighborhood happen ..... in Windsor Ridge .... It
is going to require the extension of Court Street. Is the
council going to be ready to condemn for Court Street because
there is an intervening property owner that won't cooperate
Throg/ Go talk to him .....
Kubby/ That would take a change in our comp plan that we do not do
involuntary-
Arkins/ You can go around and around ....
Council/ (All talking).
Franklin/ Another aspect that you can look at is doing
infrastructure improvements ahead of time targeting it in
areas where you want to bring those development costs down
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Kubby/ Do we'have the tax base to support a public transit system
that can get out to those condominiums? .....
Franklin/ Some of them might not be so far out ..... Look at the
northeast part of Iowa City ......
Kubby/ ...Some of the ideas of Urban Design Committee of EA ....
increased environmental degradation and increased density.
Horow/ You still need the transit out there.
Kubby/ I know that the Urban Design Committee and Mace had talked
about...Mace doing the possibly of some model development ....
Braverman/ .... I would put in a million if you come up with a
million.
Kubby/
Horow/ Karin, thank you very much.
Lehman/ .... I would really like to see more folks own their
homes ..... It is just a good thing .... Some of these
folks cannot save the down payment .... I would really
like to look seriously at possibility-
Atkins/ ...silent second mortgage ....
Council/ (All talking).
Nov/ I like land trust ....
Pigott/ At least we are identifying a bunch of different programs
and ways we can help achieve that.
Kubby/
Council/ (All talking).
Lehman/ ...Where do we get the money?
Council/ (All talking).
Pigott/ Community Development Block Grant.
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Lehman/ ...sell some of the residential property that we currently
own ..... If we use just the income... could fund a fair amount
of down payment assistance.
Kubby/ ...I am not interested in getting out of Public Housing ....
because the private sector is not providing the housing for
our Public Housing folks .... If the private market were doing
it the government wouldn't have to get involved .....
Lehman/ Can Section 8 vouchers be used for payments, loan payments?
Boothroy/ It has to be for rental only.
Lehman/ If we had a low income person buying their own home and
they are entitled to a voucher ....
Boothroy/ You cannot provide rental assistance to any homeowner
Atkins/
Kubby/ And we have the tenant to owner... Section 8 program and
family self sufficiency program ....
Horow/ Let Doug answer the question ....
Boothroy/ The Rental Assistance is on for rental assistance and
the money is 100% federal dollars. They determine how to spend
those dollars .... Second thing about Public Housing. All the
Public Housing units the federal government gave us 100% of
the cash to build them but they made us sign an agreement that
says that they have a final determination as to how that money
is used .... present... only used for replacement. You can't
just take the money and run and do other housing ..... At this
point it has to be public housing .... could change down the
road .- .....
Lehman/ I just think if we could put together a program ..... we
might be able to convince HUD to allow us.~..
Boothroy/ ...20 units... are committed by HUD ....
Horow/ We are going to bring this up again tomorrow, Assisted
Housing ....
Kubby/ Part of our goal is that people who are in the Public
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Housing Program .... will become owners of the houses in which
they currently live ..... way of providing homeownership ....
like a revolving loan.
Braverman/ One thing I would like someone to check out is what the
City of Omaha does and they have a program in which all the
infrastructure for raw land is picked up in some kind of tax
unit. They can then turn around, it is sold on a private
basis ..... transfer some of those lots at a lower price for
affordable housing. I don't know how it works
Milkman/ You can do lease purchase programs is what you are getting
towards, Ernie, using HOME funds...federal funds... You pay
for a certain amount in a certain length of time. The other
issue .... that when you were using federal funds... private
sector.. .if your carrot is going to be several funds, they
have to reveal all their financing ..... A for profit developer
does not tell you what profit he is making ..... All you know
is the management fees and development fees are high and this
is a real sticking point ..... very difficult for us to deal
with ....
Horow/ ... We do belong to East Central Iowa Council of Governments
and each month there is a housing- Ernie represents JCCOG and
the city on that board and the housing projects that are going
on as well as the infrastructure projects that are going on in
the various communities... support people staying where they
are rather than have them come looking for housing in Iowa
City .... future reports... very encouraging ....
Atkins/ (Can't hear). Susan, I read you wanted some sort of-
something right in front of you-
Kubby/ An important criteria for me is longevity .... some influx of
money into it ..... long term viability ....
Atkins/ We have assets in the form of the housing that we own. That
is a capital investment ..... We could convert those, sell
those to low income families and generate cash .....
Horow/ That is something that council'would have to agree on ....
Kubby/ Or if it .001% of the General Fund.. some constant input ....
Throg/ A diverse array of sources that can be drawn from .....
Council/ (All talking).
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Horow/ Folks, anything else?
Nov/ The long term affordability is important .... that has to be
part of the proposal.
Atkins/ As a matter of policy it would have to be... declare that
up front .....
Milkman/
Throg/ I think Mace's proposal that we should challenge the
Homebuilders and others is a good one... Question is how?
Council/ (All talking).
Throg/ Maybe if Mace has some ideas about how we could propose
action challenge to the Homebuilders and others. Maybe you can
kind of work with Karin.
Horow/ Okay, let's close this. 6:30 tomorrow for Assisted Housing.
Baker/ Do we need to have that meeting?
Pigott/ Yes.
Atkins/ I will give you a memo on how to attempt to address issues
..... Do you wish to defer, change, modify, that is your call.
I think we have recovered satisfactorily. The question is the
Program of Assisted Housing is going to change over time. We
just simply need to prepare ourselves.
Horow/
Nov/ I would confirm most of what you have here.
Kubby/ I have some problems with one part of it. I am not prepared
to talk about it tonight.
Horow/ 6:30, see you then.
Adjourned: 9:00 PM
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