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Home My WebLink About1995-12-04 TranscriptionDecember 4, 1995 Council Work Session 6:35 PM Council: Horow, Kubby, Lehman, Nov, Throg, Pigott (6:40 PM), Baker (8:35 PM). Staff: Atkins, Helling, Woito, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Fosse, Schmadeke, Winstead. Council Elect: Norton, Thornberry, Vanderhoefo Tapes: 95-139, all; 95-1-41, all; 95-142, S1. Horow/ We have an adjustment on the agenda... The Fringe Area Agreement discussion... Bruno is going to be late .... Nov/ We are starting with the Fringe Area? Kubby/ P/Z- Horow/ We could start with P/Z and then go into Fringe Area. Kubby/ Horow/ Start with P/Z. Back under P/Z Matters ..... Review Zoning Matters 95-139 S1 IT~4 NO. 5a. Consider setting a public hearing for December 19 on an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," to allow recycling processing facilities in the I-l, General Industrial, zone and related amendments. Franklin/ Consider a p.h .... recycling processing facilities in the I-1 zone and related amendments to that. We will have further discussion of that on the 18th & 19th. ITEM NOo 5b. consider setting a public hearing for December 19 on an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article N, entitled "Off-Street Parking and Loading," to reference the Parking Facility Impact Fee Ordinance in the off-street parking regulations section of the Zoning Chapter. Franklin/ Consider setting a p.h .... This is to provide a reference in the off street parking regulations to the Parking Facility Impact Fee Ordinance... housekeeping. ITEM NO. 5c. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by adopting a Sensitive Areas Ordinance to regulate Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe CI~ council meeting of December4,1995, WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 2 development on properties containing environmentally sensitive features, including wetlands, stream corridors, steep slopes, wooded areas, hydric soils, prairie remnants and archaeological sites. (Pass and Adopt) Franklin/ Final consideration of the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. ITEM NO. 5d. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by repealing Title 14, Chapter 6, Article J, Section 1, River Corridor Overlay Zone. Franklin/ P.h. amending the River Corridor Overlay zone. What this ordinance... next series of p.h.s in this agenda are in response to making existing ordinances that we have in the municipal code consistent with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance and they all rely upon your adoption of the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. If you don't do that then forget all the rest of this. But we shall go thought... repeals River Corridor Overlay Zone and then refers people to the Sensitive Areas Ordinance .... ITEM NO. 5e. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter by repealing title 14, Chapter 6, Article J, Section 1, River Corridor Overlay Zone. (First Consideration) Franklin/ First consideration .... At council,s request we have that first consideration on the same night as the p.h. ITEM NO. 5f. Public hearing on an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 5, Building and Housing, Article H, Site Plan Review, to include a reference to the Sensitive Areas Site Plan. Franklin/ P.h. on an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter is Building and Housing... Site Plan Review process. a reference to the Sensitive Areas Site Plan .... 5 which This is ITEl4 NOo $g. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 5, Building and Housing, Article H, Site Plan Review, to include a reference to the Sensitive Areas Site Plan. (First Consideration) Franklin/ First consideration of that amendment. ITEM NO. 5h. Public hearing on an ordinance amending Title 14, Thisrepresents only areesonebly accuratetranscription ofthe Iowa Cl~ councilmeeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 3 Chapter 5, Building and Housing, Article I, Grading Ordinance, to make it consistent with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. Franklin/ To amend the Grading Ordinance to make it consistent with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. This will provide consistency and reference to steep slopes ..... 25% or steeper is what it will be in both the grading ordinance and the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. Also we are redefining what constitutes engineered grading ..... trigger point... being changed to 500 cubic yards which is consistent with the UBC and about what one would excavate for a s.f. house ...... Most of the plans that we see now..° applicants are bringing in engineered grading at this level anyv/ay. Horow/ Why has the Board of Appeals have made it pointed that they do not want to give an indication of a position in- Franklin/ They did not take a position on the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. They didn't want their concurrence with this grading ordinance amendment or the site plan review amendment to be perceived as support for the Sensitive Areas Ordinance .... They were not making a recommendation on that ..... Just on these things to make it consistent. Nov/ I have a small change in the ordinance, the grading. At the very beginning, the second whereas says a slope of greater than 25% and for consistency with the rest of it it should say 25% or greater because that is what it says in every other instance. Franklin/ Nov/ .... I think it might say 25% or steeper elsewhere. So you may want to use the word steeper here .... matter of consistency. Franklin/ Okay. Throg/ Page 2 of Bob Miklo's memo. Can you explain the change in submittal timing? Franklin/ Bob's or Charlie Denhey's? Throg/ It is signed by Bob. Franklin/ We have as a matter of practice when we started doing the grading and erosion control required that the grading plans Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 4 come in when the preliminary plat was submitted and we would consider it an incomplete application if that was not done ..... 45 days that you have before the P/Z Commission starts with the time you submit. We didn't start counting the 45 days until a complete submittal. What was happening was the submittal was made, the staff would go over the preliminary plats, work through some of the changes with the applicant .... It then would go to P/Z... they did not which to invest in the grading plan until after they had gone through all of that .... Kubby/... can reduce costs? Franklin/ Yes. We had originally thought that requiring the grading plan at the get go would influence the placement of streets in relationship to the natural terrain but it didn't. There was no reason to require that grading plan at that outset stage and we are comfortable from a practice and policy point of view .... that those grading plans come in after the P/Z Commission ..... Kubby/ We should point that out .... doing some things that reduce development costs .... Franklin/ The other two things on the Grading Ordinance there is reference to the .... Tree Protection .... the guidelines that we are developing for tree protection. Those should be done by the end of this month and then we are also reference the Iowa Construction Site Erosion Control Manual. These are just two documents that are used for those two activities .... ITEM NO. 5i. consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 5, Building and Housing, Article I, Grading Ordinance, to make it consistent with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. (First Consideration) Franklin/ First consideration of that Grading Ordinance change. ITEM NO. 5j. Public hearing on an ordinance amending Title 6, Public Health and Safety, Chapter 3, Weed Control, Section 3, Natural Areas, to make it consistent with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. Franklin/ P.h. on an ordinance amending weed control... to be consistent with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. Now under the Weed Control Ordinance if you have grasses .... in excess of 14 inches high, the weed control officer can require you to Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of December4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 5 chop them down .... In protecting sensitive areas .... buffers... that would not be the intent of the Sensitive Areas Ordinance ..... now... Building Official can designate a natural area .... This amendment says any sensitive area or buffer is a sensitive area. Does not leave it to the discretion of the building official or leave any question. Kubby/ Franklin/ I don't think it is the city forester. Kubby/ Does that mean you can just let things go or do you have to have it planted in certain way? ..... Franklin/ Unless it is a state control noxious something or other .... Who is the weed official? Marilyn Kriz is the one that designates natural area- Atkins/ She doesn't know that. Franklin/ She is the one upon application of the owner or person in possession or control of the land that can designate a natural area. In terms of the sensitive areas, there won't be any designation. By being a sensitive area it is a natural area. Kubby/ .... buffer the creek by letting things grow .... Franklin/ You can just let things is subject to the Sensitive need to contact Marilyn and area. grow. If it is not an area that Areas Ordinance ..... they would get it designated as a natural Atkins/ Would you remind me of that? Franklin/ You can designate another weed official ..... ITEM NO. $k. Consider an ordinance amending Title 6, Public Health and Safety, Chapter 3, Weed Control, Section 3, Natural Areas, to make it consistent with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. (First Consideration) Franklin/ First consideration to the amendment to the weed control ordinance. ITEM NO, 51. Public hearing on an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article 5, entitled "Performance Standards," Section lOB, concerning Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Ci~ council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 6 the location of aboveground storage tanks. Franklin/ P.h. on an ordinance concerning the location of above ground storage tanks. This was an item that came up when we talked about underground storage tanks and basically ... it references the UFC for most above ground storage tanks. Those that are 660 gallons or more must be a minimum of 100 feet from the property line .... If they are in a vault .... then they may be 50 feet from the property line ...... screening along property line .... ITEM NO. 5m. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to clarify the definition of time/temperature signs. Franklin/ P.h. on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to clarify the definition of time and temperature signs. This is recommended by the P/Z Commision... the DR Committee .... What this says is that the time and temperature component must be an electronic digital method of showing that and 40% of the face must be included in the time and temperature aspect of it ..... This was done after our encounter with Uncommon Grounds ..... Kubby/ Why is it still going on? Franklin/ The sign-a time and temperature sign is to be an identification sign. We cited on November 22 for not having an identification sign because it says Uncommon Ground, espressos pastry and ice cream. On November 27 they established that their corporate name was Uncommon Ground, espresso, ice cream, and pastry. Very creative folks. Woito/ But we also cited them on it not actually measuring the temperature. Franklin/ ...shows the temperature ...... They have been very creative in getting around this ordinance .... Woito/ They move it by hand .... very creative. Council/ (All talking). Pigott/ The guidelines on this ordinance I am not sure I agree with ..... I don't'...want to limit us to the old electronic form ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120~.95 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 7 Franklin/ The DR Committee has asRed the P/Z Commission... to reevaluate the whole issue of projecting signs and I think one option is to look at projecting signs in the d.t.. I think it would probably involve a DR component... concern about size ...dominance ..... This was to try to get at the thermometer and just establish what the original intent was ..... Horow/ ...Joint meeting Franklin/ The original Sign Ordinance was to preclude projecting signs-but the desire to 9etain the bank time and temperature signs .... felt that some kind of service was being provided by them° That ordinance has been in affect for... late 60s and 70s ..... Most recent request that we have had .... for a stock market sign for a brokerage ...... And that did not meet the definition...decided not-to go through ...a variance. There hasn't been a herd of people trying to put these up. Nov/ Franklin/ Pigott/ Some communities put up a clock ..... like that sense that that sometimes provides so I hate to limit us in that sense Kubby/ Franklin/ I think that work is going to be done in looking at the projecting signs ..... Uncommon Grounds... aesthetically I don't disagree .... Let's get to the root of the problem which is projecting signs and talk about that in some kind of rationale .... Throg/ I don't see any reason to adopt this ordinance ...... The question for me is a matter of quality of design and I don't see how this ordinance gets to that. Nov/ I think this ordinance just clarifies what is already on the books. Franklin/ There will be no design review in the interim .... The reason for this was to try to stabilize things a little bit because some people have objected to that thermometer and they will come to us and ask how could you approve such a thing .... It is up to you as to whether you think that is a real issue or not .... Thlsrepresentsonly e reasonablyaccuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 council Work Session page 8 Lehman/ How do other council folks feel about that sign? Pigott/ I think it is nice. Kubby/ I think it would be better without the temperature on it ..... Throg/ I have no difficulty whatsoever with projecting signs... question is a matter of quality of design of signs... Lehman/ But we are pursuing them as far as that being- Franklin/ That is a pending item on P/Z Commission,s agenda... address size... design .... subject to some kind of design review .... There was quite a bit of strong sentiment in this community when the sign ordinance was adopted ..... getting rid of signs that cluttered the d.t. Nov/ Woito/ Ernie, your question was are we pursuing them legally? Yes we are. We are going after them. Lehman/ Comments I have heard .... beautiful sign .... I don't know why we are going after them. Woito/ You folks are the bosses so you need to let us know. Horow/ Lehman/ ..... after DR and P/Z come up with a revised ordinance- Woito/-Put it in abeyance until then. Lehman/ ...the public loves that sign. Kubby/. Woito/ The identification sign is in terms of proportion and doesn't measure temperature. improper because it is too large it does not function as a-it Horow/ There are three people who agree to hold this in abeyance. Franklin/ You are talking about enforcement on Uncommon Grounds. Woito/ I need to know that. Thisrepresents onlyereasonablyaccuratetranscriptlon ofthelowa City council meeting of December 4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 9 Kubby/ I would agree to that until we have this other discussion ..... If you could help remind us to bring that back after that discussion .... Nov/ I hope that the new ordinance is going to be on P/Z sometime soon ..... Franklin/ ...look at pending list .... Nov/ Horow/ If you can help us out with that one we would appreciate that. The ordinance was there ..... We have four votes to move enforcement in abeyance. Nov/ I would.really like us to clarify the time and temperature and pass this amendment of the ordinance ..... we mean digital time and temperature and we should say what we mean. Horow/ I~EM~Oo $n. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to allow adult day care, elder family homes, and elder group homes under certain conditions in Iowa City, and to change the definition of elderly. Franklin/ P.h. on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to allow adult day care and elder family homes and elder group homes. This is a continuation of your p.h. from November 21. You asked us to look at the possibility of permitting 6 or 7 people in the elder family homes and elder group homes. I want to point out one error in the memo that came to you. It is not required that family homes be registered or that group homes be licensed. There is a mechanism whereby they can be but it is not a requirement that they be at the state level. In talking to people that have experience in this area, the care of the elderly ...... limiting the size is consistent with the trend in this area and also does provide the opportunity for these entities to be licensed .... Nov/ I would have no problem with the memo we received in terms of numbers but originally we were given 5 as an upper limit of the family home and 8 or more for group home and we said what happens for 6 or 7. Now if that 8 was a typo there is no question coming along here. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe CIW council meeting of December4,1995. W$120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 10 Franklin/ You were not given 8 or more for a group home. Not for an elder group home. Group care facilities- I think it was a concern that we were only allowing 5 in the family home and the group home and that if you had 8 or more people you then would be considered a group care facility and it was a different zone and then what did you do about those groups of 6 or 7. Nov/ So 8 wasn't allowed in the zone? Franklin/ That is right. 8 set you into a'group care facility which is allowed in different zones, more intense zones. Kubby/ So if you had 7 people in a group care facility you could be in a lower density zone? Franklin/ If you had 7 people-no, it would not be considered a group care facility. It probably would be-I don't know what the circumstances would be because a rooming house would not be allowed in a lower density zones. There is some combination... if you had family. The concern here was that if you have a group of people living together who are elders, . particularly in the group home kind of situation, that we take the same kind of care with that as we do with day care and that is that there be some kind of oversight available if not required. Kubby/ Our question comes with that 6 or 7 elders in the home ..... Franklin/ Where they just want to live together. You can do-I would suggest if you want to make that provision .... that you do it in the elder family home situation where it is people who are choosing to live together. Now that will mean that if it is 6 or 7 they cannot be registered with the state and there would be no oversight by area aging agency .... Woito/ The elder family home requires registration? Franklin/ No. Woito/ Why would the council want to go with 7 on the elder family home? Franklin/ Because they seem to want to have some place where the seven people who are elders can live together. Woito/ Right, so why wouldn't they go with 7 instead of 5. Thlsrepresentsonlyereasoneblyaccu~atetranscdptlon oftheloweCltycouncll meetingofDecember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 11 Franklin/ They can. And there is no state law that requires registry. of an elder family home. You may register it and then you would have oversight. You will not be able to register or have oversight if it is .... more than five people. Horow/ Is the problem the word should not be shall. An elder family home may be registered.with the Iowa Department of Elder Affairs. Franklin/ You don't even need to put that in there if you are not going to require it because that is state law. That was if you were going to-thinking that they had to be registered. They don't have to be registered. Kubby/ The only thing we may want to make an amendment is to change 5 to 7. Nov/ They may be registered only if they have 5 or fewer people? Franklin/ That is right. Horow/ It really is confusing. Franklin/ ...they are trying to encourage the smaller numbers and what is the big difference between 5, 6, and 7? I don't know. Woito/ It is not warehousing between 5 and 7. Kubby/ In terms of cooperatively living, 7 is a very doable number Franklin/ In terms of the elder family home, are you agreed that you would like to change that to 7 persons and not have any requirement for registry which ~s fine because you couldn't anyway. Nov/ We are now talking about what sort of zones? Franklin/ In s.f. zones, RS~5, RS-8, RS-12. Nov/ Okay .... Kubby/ If we change the 5 to 7 they can go into RS-5, RS-8. Franklin/ If you keep it at 5, then if there is more they have to go into a higher density zone. Thisrepresents only ereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 12 Kubby/ It can be very challenging .... restrictive .... for coops or for group living. Franklin/ 7 for elder family home. I would discourage you on the elder group home from changing that because of the oversight that you can get and probably should get with the elder group home because someone is taking care of somebody else. That would be up to 5 elders .... also suggests that you require the certification. Nov/ Definitely. Franklin/ So elder family at 7... elder group at 5 requiring certification. Nov/ If people in the group family home are not elders, what is the limit? .... What does the code say if we have people who are younger who chose to live together...? Franklin/ You have a base of whatever the family is .... two unrelated individuals and then you can have a certain number of roomers depending upon what zone you are in. Usually you are talking about 3 to 5 individuals in the RS zones ..... Kubby/ So we do need the bolder line in the elder group home in the memo. We do need to make two amendments. Franklin/ Yes. We will do that for the version you have tomorrow night .... The p.h. is still open so we will just do it and then we have got first consideration on for tomorrow night, too. ITEM NO. 5o. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to allow adult day care, elder family homes, and elder group homes under certain conditions in Iowa City, and to change the definition of elderly. (First Consideration) ITEM NOo $p. Public hearing on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to require bicycle parking for commercial and multi-family residential developments. Franklin/ P.h. on an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to require bicycle parking for commercial and multi family residential developments. You have got a memo from Charlie Denney in your packet as well as some photographs ..... We did have empirical data because we did a survey when bicycles were Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa City council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 13 being used. Kubby/ ..possibility of trading some parking spaces in commercial zones for bike parking spaces .... Franklin/ Was the purpose of that to act as an incentive for compliance? Kubby/ I think it was to reduce additional impervious surface on the property. Pigott/ I am inclined to support' in residential as well as commercial ..... Kubby/ In multi-family units even with our new way of calculating the number of spaces needed .... we still have parking spillage into the neighborhood streets .... Pigott/ .... I don't know about the new construction which this applies to ..... Horow/ I will give you an example of Walden Court off of Mormon Trek. The cars are now parking in the fire zone area ..... The ones by Quik Trip .... Nov/ Franklin/ Remember you did change the parking requirements for multi-family to relate to the number of bedrooms so that has gone up .... more parking spaces per unit .... Horow/ Off of Keokuk, some of Mace's new homes back there are multi-family units. Kubby/ Franklin/ .... Karen has made a proposal that we reduce the parking by one. Kubby/ I would even go up to 2. Pigott/ The commercial I totally support that. Franklin/ Do you want to make this mandatory? .... Right now there is no maximum amount of parking ..... Throg/ ...If we mandate that one of the required parking spaces be Thisrepresents onlyereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 14 dedicated~ or maybe two of them, be dedicated parking, they still will have already...over built. Franklin/ Yes. Dean Thornberry/ On commercial properties .... the property, I paid $10 square foot for my property. I wanted as many parking spaces as I could and if you start taking parking places, I don't have enough now. I wish I had more ..... I need more parking and I am having my employees park off of my property ..... I still need more ..... Commercial people, if they want the business, will make bicycle parking ..... I did go out and buy a bicycle rack .... Horow/ Where did you put it. Thorn/ It was not in a parking place .... Pigott/ What about option of allowing a business owner... Thorn/ Mandating t~ take a parking place may not be the best way to go ..... Mandating that they put a bicycle rack in an individual space, I don't know. Throg/ If we added any reference to the draft ordinance...would that be a strengthening of the ordinance or a weakening of it? Woito/ You would be permitting the bicycle parking in lieu of the required parking? Throg/ Yes. Woito/ A lesser, more lenient- Franklin/ Less restrictive. Woito/ I wouldn't think you would need to start over. Franklin/ It is optional as it has been suggested. Throg/ Woito/ I don't think you need to start over. Franklin/ You don't have an ordinance yet that has this tradeoff because we didn't know you were going to want to do that. So Thisrepresents only areasonsbly accuratetranscription oftbelows CitycouncilmeetlngofDecember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 15 what we can do is put together some language that you then could amend on the floor if you want to do that before you close the p.h. Kubby/ I think at the very beginning of the p.h. so if people wanted to comment on that during the p.h. Pigott/ If Larry were here...language regarding residential as well Franklin/ At this point do you want residential and commercial or just commercial? Horow/ Come up with the options that would be explained before the p.h., namely the residential as well as the two options for the commercial, either to allow it or to mandate it. Nov/ Do we have four people here who want the residential option? I don't hear it. I think commercial. Franklin/ .. bicycle provide of your ..Commercial that it is an option to provide the parking in lieu of required car parking. You have to bicycle parking and it may be in lieu of one or more automobile spaces. Nov/ Say 1 or 2. Let's not get into anything beyond 2. Throg/ With regard to the ~esidential element .... might be 4 votes in favor of having a tradeoff for residential ..... interest in that .... suggest it would be wise to have some optional language before us tomorrow night for the residential... Franklin/ So, I will have two things for you. One for the commercial and one for residential. Okay. Horow/ I want to make sure... the one for commercial is either allowing this to happen or mandating it. Franklin/ Is there interest in mandating it? Council/ (No). Franklin/ I didn't hear it. Okay. Nov/ I have one more idea on the residential bicycle parking. Somebody told me about a residential land owner who provided bicycle parking on the inside on the basement for his tenants This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 16 ....... not comply with laws proposed. Kubby/ Would that be true for underground parking? Franklin Let me check that .... I don't know why we would want to preclude that. Nov/ Franklin/ Kubby/ For either in the basement or underground or under building. Franklin/ Now it says you have to provide off street parking .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-139 SIDE 2 Franklin/ I will check it. ITEM NO. Consider an ordinance amending the Zoning Chapter to require bicycle parking for commercial and multi-family residential developments. (First Consideration) Franklin/ First consideration. ITEMNO. 5r. Consider a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors recommending approval of a requested rezoning of approximately 66 ~cres from RS, Suburban Residential, to M1, Light Industrial, for property located in Fringe Area 5 on the east side of Scott Boulevard, North of 420th St. SE. (CZ9543) Franklin/ Consider a letter to the Board of Supervisors recommending approval of the requested rezoning of 66 acres from RS to MI. P/Z Commission recommends in favor of this as does the staff because this is consistent with the Fringe Agreement. Kubby/ I would like to suggest that our letter include some of the language that is in Scott's memo about that we really don't want small lot piecemeal development and to mention annexation. Franklin/ Okay. The P/Z Commission was quite vocal about not mentioning the annexation option ..... thought it was frivolous and didn't mean anything so why include it. If you would like Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of December 4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 17 to obviously the staff has not problem with that. Horow/ Letter I just sent to Charlie talking about the fact that this does take place .... We just sent that letter. Kubby/ Franklin/ Horow/ I would agree with Karen in terms of mentioning the aspect of piece mill .... Pigott/ We have been thinking about the idea of some sort of industrial park... near the airport... wondering how this all fits together .... I would like to have us think about that before we send a letter off to the supervisors .... Horow/ Purpose for even promoting this was to preclude residential for going in there... stop gap measure. I would hate to discourage them from taking this step ..... Franklin/ Also the kind of development that was discussed for the master plan for the airport may not necessarily be the same kind of development as we are talking about here ..... more on research development park side... than this would beo Lehman/ Kubby/ This particular site we have talked about the city .... involvement ..... Atkins/ For water rates we added in the east side sewer so we could at least have authorization to proceed with that. Kubby/ That is public involvement .... Horow/ Could you get that letter changed and then whoever wants to- Pigott/ Horow/ ...go back to the Fringe Area Agreement discussion. Kubby/ Earlier I said I had a couple of citizens call me and ask me what time that discussion was happening on the agenda and I told them what was printed and published ..... I would feel uncomfortable agreeing to that. Thisrepresents only ~reasonablyaccuratetransc~ption ofthelowa Ci~ council meeting of December4,199§. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 18 Horow/ How many people would like to stall this off until 7:50 or would mind going ahead with this right now? Throg/ Stall it off. Lehman/ Stall it off until after the first of the year. I am dead serious. Larry is not here and three other council folks .... Those are the folks who are going to make the Fringe Agreement. Kubby/ ..It is going to take more than one time discussing it. Lehman/ We should begin as a team. Kubby/ I think we should talk about it tonight and start it at 7:50. Throg/ ...7:50 .... Nov/ We have Near South Side and other things on the agenda first. Horow/ I was trying to move this up to accommodate some people. We originally had planned on having this at 6:30. Kubby/ Horow/ We certainly can jettison that one. Near South Side. Thisrepresents onlysreasonably accurate transcription ofthelowa Citycouncil meetlngofDscember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 19 Near South Side Redevelopment Plan 95-139 s2 Franklin/ Do you have any questions at all because the presentation was so late in your last agenda? .... Throg/ I do have an observation ...... one of the newspapers trivialized the plan and dismissed it as being mere esthetics and it is not that at all. It is a shame that the paper chose to describe it that way. It provides some basic guidelines... developing Near South Side .... It gives some good ideas .... some outstanding proposals .... Kubby/ ...If we did all this public investment .... millions of dollars... numbers are huge if they were completely done... Throg/ ...enable development. Kubby/ I would love for you to say that again tomorrow night. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of December 4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 20 First Avenue Reconstruction Design Alternatives 95-139 S2 Davidson/ ...diagrams. You have a memo from Rick and I. In conjunction with your decision earlier this year rezoning the Towncrest Trailer Park, led to a redevelopment project and a capital improvements project for the city in conjunction with that grocery store which is now slated to be a HyVee .... reconstruct the portion of First Avenue... between D Street and the intersection with Muscatine Avenue in conjunction with that project. We have in this area an existing corridor of higher than we like to see traffic congestion, capacity constrained street ..... needed to do something to improve the situation with traffic flow in there. Funds that we will be using on this project, both federal funds and...money from the developer. Those will not change with either alternative .... Two alternatives, we would like you to give us direction on how to proceed... IDOT will be letting the project because of federal funds ..... Our first thought... was to go with a four lane construction .... Decided to give some thought to a three lane alternative... both laid out in the memo. Throg/ Do you have an overhead slide of this? Davidson/ Rick is bringing some roll out drawings. Davidson/ Either one will work fine...good reconstruction alternative .... Four lane reconstruction does best is increases traffic capacity of the street and that is the thing we gain. The three lane we feel does give us some improvement ...... also does a few other things for us .... Less expensive ... In conjunction with the three lane alternative we would propose a right turn lane at the intersection ..... We save some trees. We save 15 trees in the area between D and Muscatine ...... The pavement width for the three lane alternative is the maximum that we can go without disturbing the trees .... We project a lower accident rate with the three lane alternative. The corridor is not a high accident corridor ....... What might happen to the north and south in this corridor .... To the south... that is something in your existing CIP you have indicated in the next year or two you are interested in reconstructing ..... Something in the relatively short term you are going to want to deal with. That is an even more constrained corridor with respect to r.o.w. The area .... possibility ..... that we might even have to relocate some folks because of the r.o.Wo we need there. The three lane alternative gives us a much easier solution with respect to dealing with some of those issues. Also... saves 11 trees going with the three lane alternative in that corridor. Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of December 4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 21 To the north there are no pro~ects programmed. Depending on what may happen in the future... may need to give some thought to .... Obviously the decision that some future council would make on putting first avenue through to Dodge Street or not is something that will impact what we have to do to the north ..... Bike lanes... possibility, if you would like, of putting bike lanes into the corridor... lose at least most if not all of our trees. We feel like this corridor is an area .... where bicycles and pedestrians.. can probably co- exist okay on an eight foot sidewalk. Horow/ Since this street has had a bicycle land on it, is there ...... any way of marking a bicycle lane on the sidewalk to anticipate the complaints ..... Kubby/ ... have it be that the bike lane starts after D Street. Davidson/ Because of the federal funds on this project... bike lanes .... have to meet the federal design criteria .... We are adding 10 feet of pavement width if we add bike lanes to this corridor ..... Not sure...recommend a bike lane on the sidewalk. We usually evaluate that with respect to a 8 foot sidewalk or 10 foot sidewalk ...... Nov/ Do you think a ten foot sidewalk would destroy trees? Fosse/ We have not measured and checked that out .... going to be real tight on the east side of the corridor going through there and we might need to get a little additional r.o.w. especially past the HyVEe.site ....... Kubby/ Davidson/ We did have a neighborhood meeting the other night and 40 people attended .... some positive comments about the three land alternative... folks that own commercial property in that area expressed .... that they prefer a ....... Kubby/ I know that they are directly related, the site plan and the street choice. But if the site plan changed anyway ...... does that change what would be the safest alternative. Davidson/ The only discussion with respect to the dock is having it on cemetery side of the building or the First Avenue. They would use the same driveway regardless .... to the north. Nov/ They do have an option ..... entrance from Muscatine. Thisrepresents only ereasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa City council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 22 Davidson/ They do have an entrance from Muscatine but I believe they are considering the principal freight access to be that First Avenue one. Kubby/ That is right .... The trucks .... Franklin/ (Refers to map). Horow/ Do council members elect wish to come up and take a look at this? Franklin/ What you are Viewing here is First Avenue .... Muscatine Avenue. There are three access point son First Avenue. Currently there are fiv~e access points along this strip of property. So we will be decreasing the number of access points by two. The service drive... is right ear the bridge and accesses the north side of the building to a loading dock. The discussion has been .... that the loading dock be pushed over to the east side so the truck traffic would come from Muscatine .... concern... trucks would come down First Avenue .... The HyVee representatives indicated that in fact the way the deliveries would be made is they would go to the Highway 6 HyVee that is under construction, the new one down there and come Highway 6 up First Avenue to this store and frankly, I think that the First and Rochester HyVee will close. Another option was to bring the trucks down Muscatine Avenue from Scott Blvd .... likely they are going to come 6, First Avenue from the south to here (refers to map) ..... You have received a letter that the HyVee representatives wrote to Dan Dakin .... When this project first came in this whole store was turned around and was pushed over to the east boundary (refers to map) .... Working with them we flipped the store around .... establish that First Avenue face so we knew what we were going to be dealing with in the future... windows on the corner .... landscaped area... gabled roof .... better presence to First Avenue... consequence of that has to do with the internal floor plan ..... There is a lot of things that come into play. They have changed the screening .... larger and denser .... I think there are a lot of trade offs that have occurred with this project. There.is still unhappiness with it on the part of some individuals...the loading dock... the store itself .... Horow/ Where is there room for expansion now? Franklin/ Right here. It would go east towards This is a big store. the cemetery ..... Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe CitycouncilmeetingofDecember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 23 Kubby/ .... Eagles was planning to have smaller shops-along here. Franklin/ They had a strip of shops right here (refers to map) .... you did lose that ..... variation on First Avenue side .... Now it is all under one roof. Kubby/. Our concern ...safety of pedestrians as they cross these access points .... have a stop sign or some kind~of warning sign to say please watch for pedestrians .... Horow/ How do they deal with that at First Avenue Rochester HyVee now? Nov/ Don't they have stop signs at the exits? Franklin/ No... have to be careful... trees trimmed up. I think if we put any kind of signage in here we would want to put it in the PUblic r.o.w as opposed to on private property ...... Karen and I talked about the possibility of some kind of sign that just indicated the pedestria~ walkway. Nov/ HyVee on Highway 6 does have stop signs ..... take another look. Horow/ ...what about the Rochester HyVee? They have how many exits? Vanderhoef/ Two, one on each street .... (refers to map). I am real concerned about this one right here .... if this is our bike trail... this is an accident waiting to happen. Franklin/ This whole thing here... coordination with the city's plans.. .... (refers to map) ..... Vanderhoef/ ...trying to get that trail through this area to get over to Creekside. That is where we are headed with it right through that neighborhood. Franklin/ It is all part of the decisions about First Avenue and it is all tied together. Kubby! Are there any improvements we need to make here for this crossing? ..... Franklin/ Yes...there needs to be enough space left there and Public Works is on notice for that. We have communicated about that (refers to map). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 24 Horow/ ...seen as a public bike .... Fosse/ Talking. about a cross walk? Thornberry/ A cross walk with those yellow lights or something. Kubby/ Franklin/ This is an easement that is dedicated... city project .... Kubby/ If we want to do different materials, now is the time to talk about that. Horow/ Fosse/ Council/ (All talking). Fosse/ The risk you ~un by demarcating it, a crossing at this time, and then using it for a period of years is people lose respect for what that means and then when you go to use it then you might have trouble. Kubby/ .... scribe the concrete... Fosse/ Cheapest option is certainly painting ...... Nov/ Rick...discussion about a crosswalk at Gilbert and Burlington Street area and there was a discussion about pavers versus bricks. Can you explain what those are? Fosse/ There are two issues there. The one is will the DOT let us work with either pavers or bricks... The difference between concrete pavers and bricks is that bricks have a tendency to collect freezing rain and frost more readily than concrete does ...... Tried the concrete paver sup in College Green Park .... Nov/ Kubby/ In terms of the size of the culvert, I know that we can make it whatever size we need it to be .... when will be talking about that? .... Fosse/ .... engineers from Howard R. Green here. This represents only a reasonobly accurate transcription of the Iowa Cfty council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 25 Kubby/ I think we should talk about it a little bit .... neighbors concern is...potential rain flowing into the creek from this development, there is just water from upstream that we need to deal with no matter what happens here. Fosse/ Are you prepared to talk about the drainage issues. This is Jim Schnoeblen with Howard R. Green Company. Jim Schnoebelen/ ...constrain on the drainage channel... it is the downstream channel .... slope and size of that channel is the constriction of that flow. Our recommendation was to size the culvert at this time so that it will handle the free flow if those channel improvements are ever made .... studies... of that whole drainage basin. Kubby/ If the restriction was downstream. So why would we make the culvert- Schnoebelen/ So when those improvements are made and that constriction is removed, that the culvert doesn't become the constriction .... adequately sized to pass the water through .... Vanderhoef/ Will you being doing bridge work at the same time? Schnoebelen/ This is a culvert is what we are looking at. A box culvert. Horow/ You are putting in a larger culvert .... ? Schnoebelen/ Yes, it will be larger than the existing one. Kubby/ (Refers to the map). The Funks are right here. How will the three lane affect their property and the bigger culvert? .... Schnoebelen/ I don't know that yet ..... We are tapered down by then .... Fosse/ Regardless of pavement width, full span to r.o.w. with the culvert so that the sidewalks don't take the jog in ..... By extending the culvert out to the r.o.w., that is going to push it farther south which may help .... Kubby/ Actually gives more room for that bike trail to come down. Fosse/ Horow/ Thisrepresents only areaeonebly accuratetranscrlptton oftbelows City council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 26 Thornberry/ What is the width of this (refers to map)? Fosse/ 28 feet is what they show. Horow/ ...that is probably going to change anyway. Council/ (All talking). Vanderhoef/ .... talking about in the short term going with the three. How many years .... ? Davidson/ When I said short term we .... If you construct those three lanes .... we want you to know that we are not completely comfortable with what future traffic volumes that we have in our modeling ... tell us for this corridor. We could get out past the 5-10 year period .... have a situation .... congestion. There certainly will be improvement in the short term, 0-10 year period .... Get out in the past ten year period we may not have a situation... capacity. Kubby/ It matters what we do on North First Avenue and Scott Blvd. Davidson/ The biggest decision that any city council will make for First Avenue is whether or not it goes through to Dodge Street. Vanderhoef/ I am not comfortable with the light because I drive that one frequently .... backed up at Court and First Avenue ..... depending on what the schools do down at junior high .... middle school... we could be over capacity real fast and when I look at those trees .... Davidson/ They are healthy trees now. We can certainly have the city forester take a look at them. Pigott/ Safety issue .... Davidson/ Big problem... somebody in front of you is making a left turn .... capacity of the street shuts down to zero .... there is no through capacity. This eliminates that problem because it gets people into that center turn lane ...... Having a four lane cross section with a two inside lanes being both through lanes and left turn lanes, there is that expectation that you may be able to use that for through traffic ..... you get the rear end accident frequency .... Those are the things that the three lane cross section helps us with. Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa CIW council meettng ofDecember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work-Session page 27 Pigott/ Helps avoid those problems that the four lane creates. Lehman/ .... It was a substantial reduction in accidents on three lane. o~ only 10% increase in capacity by going four lane .... Fosse/ A very important thing for the three land in having a chance in succeeding is the intersection of Muscatine and First Avenue and the necessity for the right turn lanes there ..... Vanderhoef/ Horow/ But you can't turn right... on right .... Kubby/ Actually talking four lanes at the actual intersection. Fosse/ (Refers to map). Here are th~ three lanes coming south on First Avenue and then you put a right turn lane in for going onto Muscatine ..... Davidson/ The intersection is where our biggest capacity problem is Vanderhoef/ The safety issue... bicycles...heading south and they want to turn east on Friendship, people scoot out into the bike lane to get around whoever is sitting there ..... Fosse/ First Avenue to the north there is very nearly the width of a three lane roadway .... Nov/ (Refers to map) Put in a signal for a protected left turn here? Fosse/ (Refers to'map). Yes ..... There is no right turn on right here ..... Pigott/ I like the three lane option for the safety reason. Throg/ ...currently on First Avenue...33 feet wide... if we went to four lanes it would be 47 feet wide? Fosse/ 47 here and then tapering down to Throg/ ...sets up a pattern for north street on south .... Fosse/ Unless the decision is made at the the existing by D Street of D Street and for the end of the commercial This represents only e reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 4o 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 28 corridor that is the end of this type of capacity. Throg/.... if we choose to do the three lanes... looking at ~3 foot wide street from .... Bradford north to Rochester... That whole stretch .... Kubby/ In our CIP right now we are looking at Scott Blvd going all the way across the highway and up ..... Horow/ ...hope is by either Scott Blvd going up to Highway 1 or First coming up to Dodge that we minimize the impact of commercial traffic on Dodge Street ..... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95o141 SIDE 1 Thorn/ If this were done on three lane here (refers to map) and we wanted later on to connect First Avenue with North Dodge ..... First Avenue is wider than Scott Blvd? Kubby/ If you take the bicycle lanes off. Council/ (All talking). Fosse/ The pavement width is actually wider. Davidson/ And we have a lot more capacity on Scott Blvd ..... better access control .... Kubby/ Horow/ Okay, are there.any other questions? Throg/ I appreciate the fact that staff came to us with that idea Kubby/ Karin, thank you for bringing the site plan. Horow/ Jeff ..... Rick, do you have anything else .... Ernie is going with three, Bruno, Jim- Everybody is. I just wanted to make sure. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcrlptlon of the iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 Decen~ber 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 29 Frinqe Area Agreement Discussion 95-141 Sl Franklin/ This is the Fringe Area. Council/ (All talking). Throg/ ...what is the land area of Iowa City .... Franklin/ 21.9 square miles. Throg/ .... Looks to me like the fringe area itself is about... 20- 25 square miles .... maybe 40 square miles... land area... larger than the land area.of Iowa City. Franklin/ Yes, and it will get bigger proportionately too as it goes out if it goes out ..... Just really quickly what we are talking about is the two mile fringe around Iowa City and that is delineated in this dark blue line (refers to map)... adjusted for recent annexations... agreement with Coralville ... and Hills in terms of what we will review. If we don't have a fringe agreement the set up is this. The county zones that land, the city can annex anything that is contiguous. The city and the county both review the plats. The city can decide that it is going to review those plats anywhere between zero and two miles. It is our discretion ..... we just have to pass an ordinance that says that is what we are going to do. We have passed an ordinance that says we are going to review all plats within two miles. The city can impose full city development standards within those two miles or it can, with an agreement with the county, impose some different standards. I believe we also have the option of imposing variable standards in that two mile fringe .... I put together some kind of basic questions and these come from Ernie... last Thursday night... about what we need to think about and what you all need to focus on in determining what your position is going to be in regard to the fringe agreement. First of all should you be concerned about any area that is not in the Iowa City growth area. (Refers to map) .... 20 year projection .... That is where we are going to grow with that period of time ..... determined by water shed .... that line can change .... That is an approximate line- There has been a lot of misunderstanding about why the city should care about anything outside the annexable area ..... We have, with th~ fringe agreement, always taken the position that we are concerned about this entire area because it impacts Iowa City in some fashion (refers to map) ...... We can influence just the two mile area and I would assert in terms of planning for our future that it is important not just for those areas that we anticipate Thisrepresents oniy areasonably accuratetranscription ofthe[owa City councilmeeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work session page 30 annexation but also these others areas as well and there should be a mutual interest between the city and the county in planning for development in this area. #2-Where should residential development take place and to what extent? (Refers to map)...north corridor... larger area, all of area A. This is currently zoned RS, no down zoning is proposed now in this proposed agreement° So we. have all of this RS zoning that exists. Should it be expanded to this area? Should all of the fringe be open for development except those areas wher~ there is a high CSR-corn suitability rating ..... When development takes place, at what density? ..... (Refers to map-Area A) .... In area A, permit residential development by considering on a case by case basis proposals to fezone land in this area, RS-3 on east... RS on west side. (Refers to map). Clustered development, is that an appropriate way to have development occur and what does that mean? ..... The proposal that went out proposed a maximum size on those lots .... What are the appropriate standards that should be used for the subdivisions? The proposal required city standards in the growth area and that if development subdivision were to take place prior to annexation that there would be dual systems required: the rural system of septic fields and wells .... plus the city sewer and water lines to be capped until annexation and then hooked onto the system. The counter proposal is that any subdivision that would occur prior to annexation easements be provided for sewer and water lines .... Kubby/ If there is just easements in our growth area for water and sewer, who pays to get the infrastructure to the area and who pays for the infrastructure going from ours into the home. Franklin/ The proposal that the county made... is that upon annexation the cost of putting in those city systems would be the homeowner's associations and it would be at their cost to put in sewer and water at such time the property was annexed. Kubby/ What is the advantage for a homeowner's association to choose to annex int6 the city? .... Nov/ It is a disincentive. Kubby/ Franklin/ There probably is not a financial reason. The reliability. You don't get just sewer and water when you come into the city ..... I guess it depends partly on how marketable they think it will be .... It is not cheap, no. The last Thisrepresents only oreosonablyaccuretetranscriptlon ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 31 question... Should the two mile fringe be extended as the city annexes property and at this point in time there is an automatic extension of that two mile fringe area every time an annexation occurs ...... proposed... was that that would be extended on an ad hoc or case by case basis in consultation with the county .... we would evaluate with each annexation whether it is appropriate to extend the additional two miles Lehman/ Karen, is there any regulation with septic systems relating to the level of ground water? Franklin/ In terms of the initial construction, yes ..... perk tests... approve septic field. Lehman/ Area B- Franklin/ Precluded from using septic systems. However you could develop... package .... mound system ..... TAPE PROBLEM-FIRST PORTION OF WEST FRINGE AREA AGREEMENT DISCUSSION HIGH DISCUSSION TAPED OVER FrinGe Area AGreement Discussion Con't Franklin/ Land around our corporate limits and they can zone it all RS if they choose to. It then comes in for subdivision plat approval. It is up to you then to decide what you are going to exact from those subdivisions. You may require everything that is within the corporate limits. I suppose .... one thing you could too would require them to be on municipal sewer and water and pay in sewer and water districts. I would want to really look at that closely ...... creating urban development in that two mile fringe. Kubby/ We have said that is really not appropriate for our community ..... That is why we want to have an agreement. Franklin/ You want to have an agreement so you have some influence on how the property is zoned. What property rights are given to the owners of that land ...... figuring out where that is is the big question. Throg/ .... I don't know what you thought of some of the points that I was making ..... I think that I was trying to make the argument that the recommendations that the board has made to us with regard to revising the fringe area agreement would This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995, WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 32 create a fairly strong incentive for development...to be more likely to occur in the fringe area than it would otherwise be under the draft fringe area agreement ..... development costs would be less and taxes would be less ...... Franklin/ .... If you go back to the rural development policy which is the historic document .... ¢ounty's current rural development policy. It included in there a policy statement about that kind of development taking place within municipalities and that it is in the interest of the county of which the cities are apart to have that development take place within the municipalities because that is where the services are provided. That is does not make sense to create parallel systems in the county level to provide those services .... There is an expectation level there that cannot be met .... People expect the government to take care of certain things .... Kubby/ ...traffic control .... library services, they are going to have to pay more for that. Franklin/ .... don't set up those parallel systems .... I would assert there will be those kinds of demands made by people who are moving out ..... School...fire protection. Kubby/ Part of the difficulty in the discussion I have had with the county is the different view of planning documents .... Need to work with the county is coming to some kind of agreement and building up trust that we are both interpreting... in a similar manner .... trust is broken on a regular basis... Whatever agreement we come up with will be followed in the same way we follow it. Horow/ ..... their concern that council will try to impose restrictions on the county that are more appropriate for the city. Trust really needs to be built on both sides .... Kubby/ Talking about after the agreement is made .... We are not necessarily in a cooperative mode right now .... Horow/ Certainly seems to me the board-they definitely want to bring this about. There is a desire to have an agreement here. Kubby/ Franklin/ I just outlined what I see to be three options on how you can proceed with this. You can provide a counter proposal to Thisrepresents onlyereesonably accur~etranscrlptlon ofthelowe City councilmeeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 33 the county from what they gave you ..... 2- You can negotiate some kind of an agreement through a subcommittee with council and board representatives ..... I would not advocate going back to the subcommittee of the commissions. We have been there. We have done that ..... It has got to be at the level of council and Board if there are going to be negotiations .... 3-You can devise a unilateral approach to subdivisions within the two mile fringe which could be the imposition of city development standards in that entire area or I believe some variation .... That is you make some decision about how you want to treat development in different parts of the fringe. I can't think of anything else. Kubby/ I really advocate us using our state grant ..... we are in the power seat .... do what is best for the whole community .... in the long run. Throg/ We should think of ourselves as being in a negotiating posture ..... In that instance we should be thinking about what is in the interest of the people of Iowa City, not about what is in the interest of the people in the county and the outside of Iowa City Kubby/ Throg/ I think they are acting on behalf of people who live in the county outside of city limits .... We ought to be acting in terms of the interests of the people of this city. Kubby/ ...what happens within two miles is in the interest if the city .... Lehman/ ... we need an element of trust between the city and the county ..... I think that spirit of cooperation is going to be enhanced if we do sit down and talk ..... If we can get an agreement that they feel is fair and that we feel is fair... we can expect each other to honor that agreement ..... Nov/ The current agreement was considered fair by the council and supervisors who then adopted it .... We can enforce city standards within that two miles if we do not have a current agreement ..... Baker/ Woito/ ...You have another option of enforcing that fringe agreement as it exists now .... dual systems in certain areas. Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowe City council meetlngofDecember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 34 Kubby/ What is our recourse? If we choose to enforce the agreement as it is now and the county chooses .... to not interpret.. the agreement as we have ..... Do we have any recourse to force them to live by the agreement? Woito/ Do you mean beyond requiring city standards within the areas that are in the current-? Kubby/ woito/ That would require an injunction which would be difficult to get. You could also file an action for a declaratory judgement saying we think this is a valid agreement, the county seems to be refusing to do it. Can you tell us whether this is a valid agreement and hopefully order both parties to abide by it. If you want to back away from the current agreement and try and forge a new avenue, then the best thing to do is to take some positive action and say we are going to go off in a different direction,. Let the county know what you are going to do and either wait to be sued or sue. Kubb¥/ Sit down what would be good for both parties. We have already did that ..... Pigott/ I don't even know why we would want to bend from that agreement ..... We have the power, why not use it. Horow/ Right now they are looking at certain areas .... What they are questioning is if there is leverage for negotiation in some of the other areas, for instance C ...... Throg/ If I read Karin's memo, November 28th memo- What I see are the following kinds of things. The county would have the authority to determine what land the city can annex and requires all annexations to be voluntary. Wow. I say forget that. Kubb¥/ Throg/ You have six points here. Nov/ We should not negotiate away any of the powers the state has given us because there aren't all that many. Kubby/ Nov/...deny approval for everything that comes in. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of ths Iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 35 Throg/ An alternative way of proceeding would be to take your memo as a set of specific questions... where you identify the major differences between the draft and what the board is reco~umending. If we wanted to, we could go through each one of those ...... I think we just rejected the annexation thing outright ....... might be willing to give in on 2, 3, or 4 items ..... Horow/ I would like to. Throg/ #2 Development standards that were introduced by the county staff. I read your memo to say it was their thing so why should we care. Franklin/ Development on paved roads and the Health Department standards. Throg/ #3 had to do with clustered development ...... Franklin/ The language change is often from required to encourage and then there is reference to the county cluster development standards which are in the appendix of the agreement ..... Nov/ So you could have five acre lots and call it a cluster? Franklin/ You could ...... Kubby/ We shouldn't change required to encourage. Throg/ I guess what I was thinking... area outside...they do whatever they want. Within the fringe area, we should .... encourage cluster development ...... Franklin/ It is required and then there are maximum lot sizes .... was to get at the whole concept of clustering .... Resistance the board feels is from people who wish to develop in response to a market ..... be on a large acreage. Throg/ How many square miles is Johnson County? Franklin/ I don't know. Lots. Throg/ There is plenty of room to develop at this kind of low density non-clustered standard that they want in the fringe area. Kubby/ Thisrepresents onlyareasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of Decsmber4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 36 Nov/ We have to think about the school buses ...... Franklin/ So, is there unanimity to reject their rejection of the cluster language? Horow/ ...encouraging that they put the lot size back in .... Franklin/ Back to require and the original language that the commission proposed. Nov/ I think we can negotiate a different maximum. 1 1/2 acre instead of 1 1/4. Horow/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-141 SIDE 2 Throg/ I am not interested on that point. Kubby/ So far the first three points you want to stick with the March proposal, right? Throg/ Franklin/ #2 change it as the board changed it is what I have got. Kubby/ Repeat #2. Throg/ Development standards that were introduced by the county staff and now the board wants to take them out. Nov/ The county Heath Department put it in and the county board wants to take it out. Franklin/ The revision instead of having specific language relating to evaluating water wells and waste water management districts, it says that you protect the public health .... pursuant to Johnson County Public Health regulations ..... Horow/ ...... minimum standards... Franklin/ The way this is written right now, the counter from the county, is that pursuant to Johnson County Public Health Department regulations whatever they may be at the point of time when you are evaluating a project .... Kubby/ Does the city standards for septic tanks say that you have Thisrepresents only areasonably accuratetranscription ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 37 to pump your tank every- Franklin/ I remember the two tank requirement ..... Kubby/ Nov/ Franklin/ Horow/ And the third cluster we are using the original language. Kubby/ I felt one of the more important points...in terms of how subdivisions are laid out in the county is clustering of maximum lot sizes. It is crucial. Throg/ #4 pertains to area A. The way I read it is what the county wants to do- Pigott/ B & C. A-1 is in area B. Franklin/ Refers to area A. Throg/ Page 3 ..... The way I read your memo is what the county wants to do is be able to develop area A west of Highway 1 more intensively and not be restricted by cluster provisions when they do that. Franklin/ That is correct. Throg/ So why is that not in our interest to let them do that? Franklin/ The concern of the commission... were dual. One had to do with the density of development ..... more units in this area...more traffic .... This is all predicated on the fact that it is attractive for many people to live approximate to the city but not in it. Throg/ And not pay city taxes and not have to meet city development standards. Franklin/ The other part of it has to do with development in this area and given the natural features of the area .... hilly, wooded .... interest... development that takes place there... use the land .... more efficiently ...... Kubby/ ..... figuring out a way to put some of our sensitive areas This mpressnts only areasonably accurate transcdption oftbelows CiW coundl meeting of December 4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 38 protection specifically in there. Franklin/ In the agreement that is enforced right now, in area 4 (refers to map) the language is agricultural use is preferred ...... In this revised agreement what we are saying is okay, we give on the agricultural use as preferred. Go ahead and have some residential development, RS-3 density, cluster development. Throg/ So we have already given, they want more. I don't think that is a good idea ..... Franklin/ .... This is extremely complicated .... to tract it all and to know who has given and who has gotten it takes a lot of concentration. Kubby/ .... listing what is the city giving, what is the city getting° What is the county giving... getting. So that is more clear ..... All the sections of the agreement in the subcommittee and the counter proposal ..... It helps us focus Franklin/ ...this memoo..did go to the county .... That is a lot of work .... Throg/ What are you hearing with regard to #4 from the council here? Franklin/ I have only heard a couple of people. Nov/ Push for cluster development in all of these areas ..... Lehman/ Franklin/ One way you could approach it is that you agree with the density and require the cluster subdivision. Nov/ That is what I am saying. Franklin/ It depends on if both of those things are critically important to you. Nov/ Chances of having every acre with a house on it is pretty small ..... Kubby/...one of the tradeoffs in saying yes to more density in area A is that maybe you can reduce the density in B... stable and ¥htsrepresents only areasonablyoccuratetranscdptlonofthelowa Citycouncil meeting of Dccember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 39 vital farm economy is important to urban people as well ..... with some environmental protection in area A I could well make that tradeoff ..... Nov/ ...protection of sensitive areas .... recognition that these sensitive areas are to be protected... Kubby/ Franklin/ .... As you are looking at the subdivision and if you had in here language about clustered development-and maybe we need to work on that language some to strengthen it if you are going to give the density... firm on how you evaluate those plats when they come in and insist upon it. Then there should be language in here that expressly speaks to that issue ..... Kubby/ Reasonable tradeoff to protect some of the best farm land in the county. Franklin/ So give on the density and strengthen the cluster language ..... Nov/ I would say require cluster development .... Throg/ Sounds like we are willing to focus a negotiating effort on that particular provision... willing to do this tradeoff between giving them a little more density in return for getting greater assurances for cluster development and protection of natural areas. That is what I am hearing. Lehman/ ..if you do cluster development you can have higher density. Nov/ That is about what we are saying. Kubby/ Saying we are requiring clustering .... Nov/ Thr0g/ #5 I don't fully understand .... Franklin/ The disincentives for development prior to annexation in areas B & C refer to the requirement to put in the sewer and water lines as well as the rural system ..... (reads proposal). And the change is developments which are approved prior to annexation shall be required to dedicate easements for the purposes of installing utilities including but not limited to Thisrepresents only e reasonably accurate transcription ofthe Iowa City council meeting of Decamber4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 40 Iowa City sanitary sewer and water lines. upon voluntary annexation into Iowa City, the subdivider property owner will be responsible for paying the costs of installation of Iowa City sanitary sewer and water lines. Kubby/ I think that is totally unrealistic .... Franklin/ Allows development to happen in that growth area prior to annexation at RS density and it is a rural subdivision... and it is in our growth area. That one I feel very strongly about. Throg/ I agree. It is hard to see any reason to give them that. Franklin/ In the remainder of area B... county's counter proposal.. opens that area to RS development ..... The proposal was balance of land, agricultural uses preferred. This means that land will not be rezoned to permit non-farm development .... Kubby/ The county's counter proposal is to have more dense development and allow more development in B. Where are they giving? I don't understand. What are they giving up? What is happening in C? Franklin/ Same thing. There is a provision about conumercial and industrial development which I think would be deleted in conversations that Ernie and Susan had. They also don't address at all development in area C outside the growth area and I think that was just a mistake. Nov/ ...10ok at map... agricultural area... surrounded by residential ... how did that happen? Franklin/ Back in the 60s there was extensive rezoning to RS and I don't know what happened there. It just didn't get included ... that is in our growth area and in the short term it would not be rezoned assuming we can reach some agreement. Throg/ I didn't hear any support for giving with regard to #5. Nov/ Franklin/ In the county counter proposal it appears that they are advocating commercial and industrial development in the county as opposed to in the city and that would take place at street intersections. My understanding... they were willing to take that out which would be consistent with the original proposal. Thisrepresents only areasonably accurate ~anscriptlon ofthelowe City councilmeeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 41 So I don't think there is disagreement on that particular issue anymore. Horow/ ...reassess area C. Franklin/ So what I got at this point is #5 reject, okay. Throg/ The way I read #6 is basically that the county wants us to give up our ability to annex or to extend the two mile area after annexation ..... They want to have veto power. Franklin/ And I don't really understand that because area A, that is not an area we have anticipated for annexation anyway ..... Horow/ It would be an automatic. Franklin/ One would assume it goe? back to the- Horow/ The proposal from P/Z. Franklin/ Consultation scheme. Nov/ I would be strongly against dividing the system of automatic extensions between B and C because you are going right along the river .... Franklin/ Remember this is two mile extraterritorial jurisdiction, not annexation .... B & C should be treated the same... Horow/ Okay. Franklin/ Shall I summarize this is a memo to council. Pigott/ That would be good. Nov/ ...yes. Horow/ An issue that we have to deal with right now is getting together with the county board .... 11th has been suggested ..... It is going to take more than one meeting anyway. Kubby/ Baker/ Nov/ Thisrepresents only areasonablyaccurate transcription ofthelowa CiW council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 42 Throg/ Perhaps we can try to schedule a meeting with them sometime in January ..... Kubby/ Throg/ New council members wouldn't be able to vote ...... if a decision needs to be made right then. Lehman/ Is the county going to do some more reassessment on C and get back to us? Horow/ That is the way we left it. Horow/ I would go along for getting together with the Planning Commission ...... Nov/ This is a complex issue... do we assume that we are going to repeat everything after the 11th or do we assume that the council members elect are going to be there and understand all of that. Pigott/ Horow/ I would think there would be there but the depth of understanding on this thing as to what was on the table, what was proposed, what was counter proposed and now what we are saying- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowe City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 43 TAPE PROBLEM-WEST HIGH DISCUSSION West High Driveway/Traffic Siqnal Horow/ 95-141 S1 Fosse/ We are in the home stretch in the design of this... working on finishing up our planting plan. And the issue has come up regarding the traffic signal (refers to map) at the entrance for West High. The issue being that since this is a federal aid project the traffic control devices need to meet the warrants spelled out in the manual of the Uniform Traffic Control devices, a nationally accepted standard. We don't meet any of the 11 warrants at this intersection so that the DOT has said if we include the signals as a part of this project, the project will no longer be eligible for federal funds. And further more, if we try to sneak them in after the project is done, they will come ask for their money back. They have done that before. So our remaining option is-two remaining options. One is not put the signals in... other option is to split the project about right here (refers to map). We will lose out on about $110,000 of federal aid there ..... could possibly be reallocated to a job like Melrose Avenue ..... It is a local decision, JCCOG. Horow/ Is the school aware of all of this? Fosse/ Yes. Jerry Palmer/ (Can't hear) ...... I asked Phil... what is this going to do with the temporary signal lights that are currently at that intersection and he said I was told specifically not to talk about that but I think it is a good question, why don't you bring it up ..... It is potentially not going to be replaced with a permanent signal ..... It is not the people west of that intersection that is going to be as dramatically affected ..... It is all the people coming from the east that are entering West High School that are going to be greatly impacted by this ..... I talked to Jerry Arganbright .... we called and checked and found out that it was on your agenda for discussion tonight .... This is a big concern... extremely concerned about this ..... Kubby/ Has there been any discussions... school district helping with part of that expense? Palmer/ Expense for reinstallation of the light? That has not come This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 44 Horow/ We didn't realize this at all. Palmer/ Well you knew sooner than we did. I feel that we found out by accident only, Susan. Fosse/ There was no intent to conceal this ..... Horow/ .... All the work that we have gone into putting the light there... we are all, staff and council, are aware of that .... I just don't want you and the neighbors to think that anything was trying to be put over you. That is certainly not our intention ..... Atkins/ Don't forget the liability .... contrary to the code .... Kubby/ Atkins/ Two issues, financial and liability. Horow/ .... both of our groups are using tax payers money on this ..... I don't want it to be a no-win situation. Fosse/ What we are here for tonight is to get some guidance and as Steve said we need to make sure that you make- Fosse/ The liability aspects of it. As Karin alluded the liability aspects we are touched on the first time around, the signals that are out there right now are not warranted. So we face a similar liability right now. The City of Waterloo is defending itself in a similar case right now. Nov/ Fosse/ There was an accident at a signalized intersection in a similar situation where the warrants weren't met .... if there wasn't a right light there to run there wouldn't have been an accident. council/ (All talking). Atkins/ It appears the only reasonable option is to split the project so you can proceed with the rest of it. So that isn't held up. Then the question becomes a debate if you are willing to accept the liability then you direct us, the signals to be designed in separate from the rest of the project. Then the Thisrepresents onlyereasonablysccuratetranscriptlonofthelowsCitycouncilmeeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 45 third question is the hit you may take on federal aid and or who is going to pay for the difference in that signal .... Kubby/ (Refers to map). Fosse/ Baker/ A shall game...DOT is not going to object to the split? .... Fosse/ That is what the local systems engineer tells us .... Arkins/ I don't think they want to be on the hook either .... that no signal is no longer our responsibility in any way and then you guys are on your own .... Horow/ You have said the construction of this road would minimize the sight problems that we have right now .... Fosse/ There will be an improvement in sight distance certainly when you are coming over the hill and approaching the intersection and also you will have two lanes there .... There will be some improvements .... Nov/ If the West High entrance be converted to a public street, would the light be warranted? Fosse/ No .... chances are in the future of meeting warrants sooner Nov/ As long as it is a driveway entrance to a school... it will never have the warrants in terms of traffic counts. Fosse/ It could as traffic increases on Melrose Avenue .... 11 warrants .... Kubby/ Does it just have to meet one? Pigott/ Just one of 11. Lehman/ ...almost have to split the project. Pigott/ I think we want to split the project. Nov/ Definitely split the project. Horow/ This represents only a reasonsbly accurate transcrlptlon of the Iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 46 Fosse/ ..two divisions,. One is the federal aid division and the other one is the city funded division. Kubby/ So it is still designed as one project .... Nov/ And it is till constructed at the same time... with two different people paying for it, then you can put the lights Fosse/ Yes. Kubby/ Atkins/ Nov/ You do have to take out the temporary lights .... Fosse/ ...worse case we can just put in a four way stop there. Kubby/ Fosse/ ...try to phase this to minimize the impact on the school. Baker/ I want to make city is going to liability. sure what the issue is. Whether or not the accept 100% of the cost difference and the Atkins/ You got 100% of the liability. Baker/ Is there some way the school board can accept partial liability. Woito/ Not as a practical matter. That is a city space. Baker/ The parents are certainly going to expect us to provide some sort of signals there... also responsibility by the school board to contribute in the cost of that. Atkins/ If you can accept splitting the project, you have made the critical decision right now. Second question is you instruct us to go to the school board and attempt to work out funding situation... I think that is your direction and we have to report back to you. Pigott/ We should ask them. Nov/ We should ask them to share- Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscriptlon ofthelowaCItycouncilmeetlngofDecember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 47 Lehman/ ..... we shouldn't really have to do the lights too. Kubby/ Atkins/ (Can't hear) Council/ (All talking). Baker/ I want to make sure that when people hear about this... they should also talk to the school board .... Fosse/ The street lights onto the east here needs some updating .... (Refers to map) ..... Kubby/ I don't want to limit discussions with the school district to just the $50,000 for the light. Pigott/ I don't either. The $110,000 as well. Lehman/ But not over $160,000 .... Kubby/ Fosse/ At this point things seem pretty well on track. We will be coming to you in a couple of weeks authorization for negotiation of easements and r.o.w. Horow/ May I ask Mr. Arganbright or Jerry, do you have any other questions that you want to ask council right now? Jerry Arganbright/ Some kind of traffic control device needs to be there. I am comfortable with that ..... Arkins/ .... remember IDOT has said there is no need .... We as staff have some concern... there is liability. And that without the signals... there is less liability. Arganbright/ ...I don't know who up here uses that intersection or has been out there. I suspect not many... I think you need to go and observe that intersection .... and then make a judgement about whether it is needed or not because it certainly isn't a political issue. Lehman/ With the improvements they are going to make, it certainly will be much much better than it was before ..... Arganbright/ ...opening of that intersection .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 48 Kubby/ Horow/ We also need you and the parents to let this be known to the school board... Pigott/ Thanks for coming down tonight. Thisrepresents only amasonably accuratetranscription ofthalowa CI~ council meeting of December4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 49 Council Aqenda/Time 95-141 S2 1.Horow/ ...not meeting with the board on the 11th ..... Atkins/ Dale is preparing a memo to go out to you shortly .... take the article and compare state law with the proposal .... Horow/ Deal with that within the next work session with council..° 18th (collective bargaining). 2. Horow/ I talked to Bruno about economic development of d.t. area. Pigott/ I would like to present the memo tomorrow night .... last council meeting interest in starting up sort of a strategy group of business people d.t. to talk about what we need to do... viability of our d.t ..... I put together a memo... for your consideration ..... Pigott/ Don't think it would require a long time meeting to talk about this .... nod of the head that we are interested in doing something like this .... Horow/ 11th is cancelled. 3. Lehman/ I would like to thank Marian for including in our packet a Rules Committee minutes from February 1, 1994 ..... Throg/ I want to mention to you I have been invited to appear on News To Us .... talk about what I have learned while being on council for two years ...... 6:30, Wednesday .... 12/6 Pigott/ (Agenda #23-cable franchise agreement) We are going to talk about the BTC agreement .... PATV .... I would advocate one of two things .... changing the language in that agreement or asking the BTC ..... Nov/ We have a letter in our packet from the chair of the co~lh~lSSlon. Pigott/ I would like us to say tomorrow night that we would like them to do it. Kubby/ .... each individual council member... intent... Throg/ .... letter from the chair of the commission .... Pigott/ Thisrepresents only sreasonsblyaccurate trsnscfiptton ofthelowa City council msetlng of December 4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 50 Kubb¥/ Our intent is to make the language as flexible as possible in case something happens .... I agree totally with the legal reason for doing that. Ten years is a long time .... I would like to ..... one way to deal with this is to have one terms... have a definition of what public access is that is as flexible and broad... that will be covered by this agreement... one term that was all encompassing... take care of that legal flexibility .... Woito/ Atkins/ Kubby/ Suggesting that we change the language in the agreement to take out community programming to have the term public access be the only term there but the term means even more broadly than public access and community programming. Atkins/ (Can't hear). Lehman/ Nov/ I really don't want to change the language in the franchise agreement .... Let's just work this out afterwards. Woito/ Community programming and public access. Nov/ We can define that among ourselves and we can allocate the money however we want to without changing the franchise agreement. Kubby/ I am just saying they don't care if the wording community programming is in there .... TCI .... Pigott/ .... don't want to open up a Pandora's box ..... Horow/ ...community programming is the issue that has to be resolved ..... I would hate to take out the word community programming ..... Nov/ I don't want to change the franchise agreement. Pigott/ Can we ask the BTC to resolution expressing some PATV? come back with some language for sort of-you know, regarding this Baker/ ...definition or question about what does PATV possibly This represents only o reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of December 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 51 include ..... Council/ (All talking). Nov/ °°.contract negotiation between PATV, BTC and the city council Kubby/ Matters what the contract says and how long the contract is for .... council/ (All talking). Pigott/ .... interim step... good affect .... PATV .... trust... We support the efforts that PATV is making. This is a way to reflect that. Lehman/ I asked Renee to have the commission send us a letter or resolution confirming their support for PATV. Nov/ And we have that- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 95-142 SIDE 1 Kubby/ ...I plan to and I ask that each of us talk about what our commitment to public access is ..... Horow/ ...strengths of PATV that I feel very keenly about .... PATV... have to learn .... Pigott/ ... they would appreciate some expression of council's support ..... Horow/ Pigott/ This process .... We have to negotiate that contract .... a fairly judiciously worded statement of our support for PATV could pretty well take care of those concerns... Nov/ We can say... we support PATV... intend a contract .... The fact that... you think they need a resolution is what is bothering me .... I think if we tell them they are going to get a fair contract, they should believe that ...... I have said it to Renee .... I think she sense we do mean to fund PATV .... Pigott/ ...I am saying ...more comfortable .... council/ (All talking). Thlsrepresentsonlyareasonablyaccuratetranscriptlon ofthelowa CltycouncllmeetlngofDecember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 52 Baker/ Pigott/ The BTC minutes... understand the concerns these people have as well ..... not trying to say there is a distrust. Baker/ .o. I told them privately .... I am going to pay a lot more attention this time .... Nov/ Horow/ Nov/ I am saying ...financial planning .... Horow/ What agency do we have right now that we assure them they will get ten years of funding? Kubby/ Every city department. Horow/ No we don't .... Kubby/ ... Horow/ Let's move on this. 6. Kubby/ I am able...Deal with Dean Thorn and human services funding. I can't go this Thursday. Naomi, you are still on. 7. Kubby/ 19th of December, our next formal meeting I would like to ask for...personal privilege at the beginning of the meeting to have Bruno swear me in at the beginning of the formal meeting on the 19th and would ask that you allow me that time. Lehman/ If it is legal. Kubby/ It certainly is .... Horow/ Why are you doing it that way? Kubby/ Because I want to be sworn in in public ..... I would be honored to have Bruno swear me in .... Nothing against Marian 8. Kubby/ Do people want to talk tonight at all about water and waste water rates? We got a memo from Ed Barker .... Woito/ I want to say something. I noticed in the memo that you plan Thisrepresents only areosonablyaccuretetrenscrlption ofthelowa Citycouncil meeting ofDecember4,1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 53 to not to continue the p.h. on waste water tomorrow night. Right? Kubby/ We haven't really talked about it explicitly one way or another. Woito/ .... we don't have an ordinance in front of us and there is no way that you cannot continue ...because you don't have anything in front of you to look at. So it should be continued. Lehman/ More interested in discussing those things after we hear what comes out of the p.h ...... Kubby/ One of the things that was helpful... memo this summer... in that memo the water rate was 30% and the sewer was 15. You might want to compare what Ed's memo says and go back and look at that memo ..... June 30 memo. Baker/ ...tomorrow I will give a short review of the meeting in Phoenix that I just came back from (National League of cities) ..... I did go to a particular workshop on housing... affordable housing without federal money ..... housing trust funds... specific ideas .... 10. Baker/ Also 8th floor of the Holiday Inn .... I looked down ... top of a parking ramp next to it. I noticed there were basketball goals .... Nov/ They do that here at the university of Iowa .... 11. Baker/ (Agenda # 5g-Bicycle parking requirement) .... bicycle parking requirement for parking- Did this come up. Kubby/ We are going to have some language in front of us tomorrow... trade offs for residential and commercial, mandatory or voluntary. Throg/ .... alternate language in front of us· 12. Kubby/ I am brainstorming what kind of information that the city could additionally supply to Jeonet ..... if people have ideas of what you think should be on electronic information about the city, write it down or tell me. Pigott/ ...looking at other communities .... Blacksburg, Virginia... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the lows City council meeting of Decernbe~ 4, 1995. WS120495 December 4, 1995 Council Work Session page 54 Nov/ CVB .... Kubby/ People at Jeonet are interested in ...people hooking up to them want to see .... 13. Baker/ Going to ask if Jim was going to announce tomorrow night that you were going to be on t.v. Wednesday night under council time. I would encourage you to announce .... and get Rusty to charge for commercial time ..... 14. Horow/ Council members, the blood donor center is having a ribbon cutting this Friday at 10:00. They would like a council person there, a donor .... at Sturgis Corner. Baker/ I will do it. Horow/ Call Mike Paul, 358-7750 .... 15. Horow/ Steve has let us know that he has been asked to serve on the executive board or the Policy Committee of the Iowa League of Cities. 16. Horow/ Also have a letter from the President's Service Award ...Points of Light. We have service award nomination deadlines January 12. These are for outstanding individuals, groups, .... voluntary community service .... Get some names in. 17. Woito/ I have a prior commitment tomorrow that I have had for a year. So I will not be here but Anne Burnside will .... A little glitch in the settlement with Kroezes and I don't want this going down the tubes... prefer that you defer it rather than deep six it. Kubby/ We will get a report tomorrow from Anne? Woito/ Yes... Karin will know ..... The paragraph dealing with sewer hook up and Ernie is going to try to talk with Arie. Kubby/ I have a problem with some things on 10. as well ..... Adjourned: 10:25 PM Thisrepresents only aree$onably accuratetranscription ofthelowaCItycouncllmeetlngofDecember4,1995. WS120495