HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-06-15 TranscriptionJune 15, 1998 Council Work Session page 1
Council: Lehman, Kubby, Champion, Norton, O'Donnell, Thornberry, Vanderhoef.
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Davidson, Fosse, Klingaman, Winstead, Franklin,
Head, O'Neil, Robertson, Long, Nashby, Trueblood, Schoon, Fowler, Grosvenor,
Ripley, Rocca.
HCDC Members: Gretchen Schmuch (Chair), Denita Gadson, William Stewart, Kathleen
Renquist, Dan Coleman.
Tapes: 98-74, all; 98-75, all; 98-76, Side 1.
Addition to the Consent Calendar 98-74 S1
Clinton Ross Jr./My mother is Rebecca Ross. She has a blues bar and jazz bar in Newton
Iowa and she has run that successfully for 17 months and my job is to go out and
find the establishment and put together the place and we have done so and we
have gotten all of the signatures...
Lehman/Where is the place?
Ross/13 S. Linn Street... It was Grassroots.
Kubby/
Ross/There is a stir fry restaurant going down below that was the Yacht Club.
Karr/It is across from the Cottage.
Kubby/
Ross/... We would like to bring in a lot of live music. I can tell you fight now... We
don't have punk rock, we don't have heavy metal.
Kubby/We like it all in this town.
Norton/Will your mother be over to supervise?
Ross/You bet...
Kubby/Is everything in order, Madan?
Karr/There are a couple of contingencies. It is something we can handle internally.
Lehman/This will go on the Consent Calendar for tomorrow night?
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Karr/Yes we will add it late to the Consent Calendar if council agrees.
Lehman/Very good, thank you.
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Joint Meetin~ with Housing and Community Development Commission
Housin~ Market Analysis 98-74 S1
Head/Tonight is the presentation on the recently completed Housing Market Analysis.
We have with us Mr. Laurence Harmon, president of Maxwell Research. He is
going to make the presentation... Also Rick Fenske...Max field Research... lead
staff person in preparing the report. As you know, the report covers the entire
Johnson County... looks at housing from an original perspective...
Laurence Harmon/I realize that my time is short... go through this quickly... Purpose...
examine the amount and types of housing needed in Johnson County to satisfy
demand from current and future residents through the year 2010 and the estimate
how much of this housing demand the City of Iowa City could capture. The scope
analyzed the growth trends in your county and demographic composition of the
population in households... Then we examined the existing housing stock...
existing rental projects, age of the housing stock, household tenure... Residential
construction trends, s.f. home sales, residential lot supply and pending residential
developments.
Let me go through the demographic features that we discover... In terms of
population and household growth, Johnson County experienced a substantial ...
population growth between 1970 and 1990. Nearly 24,000 people. Households
similarly increased by 60% to nearly 14,000 in the year 1990... Approximately
80% of the growth in both housing and population occurred in the urban area and
that was especially true in the 1980s... Household growth... indicator of housing
needs... Represent occupied housing units. The household base in Johnson
County increased by nearly ½ between 1970 and 1990. We project that it will
project strong household growth through the year 2000, tapering off between
2000 and 2010... A 20% increase in households during the 1990's and a 15%
increase in households thereafter.
With respect to age distribution in 1990... 1/3 of Iowa City's population was
between the ages of 18 and 24... 10% of the State of Iowa's population...
forecast... senior household base will increase by nearly 1100 households, about
an additional 25% during the 1990's and by nearly 30% through the year 2010.
Aging of the baby boomers... Will supply continued demand for senior housing
through at least the year 2030... Homeownership rate in 1990 was 53%... 70%
true in State of Iowa... reflective of the large student population... 95% of renters
lived in the urban area. The rental burden... is enormous. Iowa City houses 70%
of Johnson County renters... Large percentages of students and young working
adults comprise the renter population... Income, this is an important matter with
respect to housing... determines people's ability to pay for it... True with respect
to the senior population... limited income... Overall the median income in
Johnson County was $40,000... urban area... $37-... Rest of the county
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substantially higher at $54-. The young adult population... lowers the median
income figures in the urban area... 45-64 age group... $60,000 and above...
Young adults and older seniors... Had lowest incomes in your county. With
respect to your employment... 52% increase in number of employed residents...
twice the rate of employment growth in the State of Iowa overall... Found a
substantial number of commuters... ¼ of the workers in Johnson County are
commuters from elsewhere... Unemployment declined...
University of Iowa population... Important... Projections are there will be a
gradual increase of about 1400 students or 5% between the years 1997 and
2000... UI resident halls house about 6,000 students... 95% average occupancy...
UI owned apartments, about 99% average occupancy. We found the UI has no
plans to develop additional housing... Projected growth in the undergraduate
population... Will burden rental housing... Near the campus. As a matter of
policy, there are some University staff and faculty at UI who believe the
University has more of a responsibility to house its students than it is doing
currently.
Housing characteristics... about 47- housing units, 16% of the total were built
prior to 1940. 4400 of them or 95% are in Iowa City... Older units typically need
rehabilitation... Substantial amount of housing was built prior to 1940... Between
1990 and 1997 about 21 housing units were raise every year. Mobile homes are
the second largest owner occupied housing type, 2200 units about, 12% of the
total in 1990... Mobile homes serve as a low cost temporary housing
alternative .... Increases in mobile home occupancy rate indicate that there is a
shortage of affordable permanent housing options. 900 annual building permits,
80% of them occurred in the urban area. 62% of them occurred in Iowa City with
respect to s.f. units... The 'for sale housing' market between 1994 and year end
1997, 5445 home sales occurred... 70% s.f... 55% of the sales occurred in Iowa
City... S.f. housing was most expensive in Coralville... average s.f. home selling
for $138,500... $122,000 in Iowa City... $110,000 in Noah liberty and the rest of
Johnson County. Zero Lot line housing is most expensive in Iowa City... About
$110,000... $83,900 in North Liberty... Condominiums... average sale prices in
Iowa City $96,700... Less in Coralville... $76,500... Noah Liberty... $66,300...
Condominium sale prices declined by 20%... Issue of lots... 1990-1997, 1526
lots were platted in 29 subdivisions in Iowa City... 743 building permits were
issued and 783 were vacant lots. Median lot prices... October 1997... Iowa
City... median lot price was $41,500... Coralville... $45,000... Mobile home
communities... surveyed 15 of them... 2600 mobile home pads... 3% vacancy
rate... 8 mobile home communities in Iowa City... 1200 pads, 3% vacancy
rates... Mobile homes typically serve as a low cost temporary housing
alternative... increases in mobile home occupancies... Indicated a shortage of
affordable permanent housing options.
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S.f. housing demand. We found... First time buyers prefer housing in the $70,000
to $140,000 range. Transferees... move up buyers... prefer... $120- and $250,000
and overall, small condominiums... Priced between $60- and $70,000 and new
homes between $100- and $120,000 are most in demand. In addition, residential
investment properties, especially 2-3 bedroom homes near the University are in
high demand...
S.f. construction... Increasing land and construction costs shrink profit margins...
market forces drive s.f. home construction... Impression that there is a high cost
of regulation... causes higher prices... City of Iowa City has a reputation for
stringent building code requirements... difficult to work with... P/Z process is
time consuming... Higher development costs... increased construction in outlying
communities where housing costs are less... Rental market... Surveyed all rural
occupancies, subsidized and moderate rent projects... 5600 general occupancy
rental units... 2.3% vacancy rate. We surveyed 474 subsidized general occupancy
units... Units... receiving assistance... Found a vacancy rate less than 1%...
Surveyed 877 low income households receiving rental assistance... Found a 800
household waiting list for this type of product... Surveyed 150 units of modest
rent, general occupancy projects, households with 60% median area incomes,
finding about a 3% vacancy rate... Vacancy rate for all kinds of rental housing
projects throughout your community is about 3% or less.
Market rate general occupancy rental projects, we surveyed 135 of these with 12
or more units, about 5,000 units in total. Overall... 120 units vacant... In Iowa
City... vacancy rate of less than 2%... Average rent in Iowa City is $536 a
month... Coralville, $436 a month... We found 124 units planned or under
construction.
Senior housing rentals... Surveyed 22 senior housing projects... 848 units. We
found 13 vacant units... 1.5%... 11 of those... market rate projects... 11 senior
subsidized projects with about 400 units... Most of these projects have waiting
lists... 306 units include basic support units... 8 units of assisted living... Planned
or proposed projects, 192 units of affordable independent senior housing, 74 units
of market rate independent housing, 81 units of assisted living.
Housing demand analysis... Estimates on projected household growth,
replacement needs and... Housing demand... Projected a demand for 6800
housing units through the year 2010... Immediate need through the year 2000 for
1,508 housing units.
Rental demand... long term demand for 2,825 apartment units... 520 of these
should be market rate general occupancy units; 1,050 should be subsidized
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general occupancy units; 1,255 should be affordable general occupancy units and
an immediate demand for 685 apartment units through the year 2000... Enormous
of rental housing demand... Long term demand for 3,050 ownership housing
units... Immediate demand for 430 units through year 2,000...
Senior housing... estimate demand for 945 senior housing units through year
2010... We estimate an immediate demand of 407 units... through year 2000...
We devised a Housing Development Strategy through year 2005... With respect
to senior profile housing, 485 units... Ownership housing, we found a need for
1,150 units... Rental housing... 1,355 units... Enormous number of affordable
and subsidized units... total of almost 3,000 units...
...Policy issues... First is how can your city meet immediate and long term
housing needs?... expensive lot prices and rising construction costs restrict the
construction of modest priced s.f., affordable multi-family housing and senior
housing... Enormous challenge for your city... Second one is how to plan for
rehabilitation of replacement of aging housing stock... large numbers of housing
units that were built before 1940... Finally... Does the University have any
responsibility for housing construction?... I don't purport to have answers to
those questions... Scope of the demand that we found for multi-family of all types
is larger in Iowa City than...construction going on right now in the seven
county... metropolitan area... The amount of housing demand in Johnson County
is greater than the amount of construction going on in the Twin Cities...
Mr. Mayor, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you...
Lehman/Comments, questions.
Dan Coleman/I understand... demand figures are county wide?
Harmon/Demand figures are for the urban area... for Iowa City, we needed to look at the
urban areas as a whole. From a market standpoint, there is really no preference...
They will go to wherever that housing suits them. So we looked at demand for the
urban area as a whole and then the demand figures that came up for Iowa City...
were based on... What we projected the City of Iowa City could capture from the
total urban area demand...
Coleman/...translated that into the specific recommendations?
Harmon/Exactly.
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Norton I had some trouble coming up with the same numbers... Reflects 70% of the
demand... You are going through year 2005... I understand your general point...
When you commented about growth, you didn't comment at any point about the
anomaly we found in 1995... Special census...
Harmon/That posed a significant problem initially. We did take a look at that census and
what it showed was very little population growth but substantial household
growth. Then we compared the household growth to what has been happening as
far as building permits... realized they were even shorting Iowa City on the
amount of growth in households as well... Took the stance... didn't oblige by
those numbers and went by with what we found in our primary research...
Reviewing permits and interviewing people in the community.
Kubby/What is going on there? Population isn't increasing but household numbers are
increasing.
Thornberry/
Harmon/How can households increase without population? We are not thinking the
special census was correct but that can occur... occurs when population per
household declines... Fewer children... Also presence of University of Iowa has a
big influence on that... Another factor is when students are moving into these 4-5
bedroom apartments... One household... All kinds of little quirks in
demographics... increased divorce rates...
Thornberry/You indicated a flat job growth through what year?
Harmon/Through 2000... That figure was from the major employers... not employment
in general... Significant growth... Except from University Hospitals and
University itself...
Thomberry/What do you call major employers?
Harmon/Depends on the city... Iowa City... 200 employees.
Thornberry/I have a problem with flat job growth. Last year... University contemplated
closing one of their student housing facilities... Are they still contemplating
closing any of their student housing facilities?
Harmon/...they have not given that the go ahead.
Kubby/
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Thomberry/The one across the river... Daum... Quad... They were going to close that...
Harmon/They had not decided to do that.
Thornberry/You talked about mobile homes... versus manufactured?
Harmon/We split mobile and manufactured out. Mobile... Manufactured housing is
generally on a foundation... prefabricated housing...
Thornberry/Interesting... family lots... cost for building are higher for Iowa City...
Kubby/
Harmon/... statistics came from lots listed through realtors... Those lots were higher in
the City of Coralville... Do not reflect construction costs...
Kubby/...do you have data to show the construction costs were higher in Iowa City?...
Harmon/That is perception... Overwhelming perception...
Kubby/Is there a way to assess that with some concrete figures?
Harmon/It was mentioned more than a few times... It did come up quite frequently.
Kubby/...we don't get very many specific answers. It is hard to know what to do with
those perceptions...
Norton/...tough to document that.
Thornberry/What do you consider affordable rental units?
Harmon/Broke down demand for housing for people with 0 to 30% of county median, 30
to 50, 50 to 80 and 80 to 100%.
Thornberry/...what price range are you talking about as far as affordable?
Harmon/Different agencies have different definitions...
Thomberry/...how much do I pay?
Harmon/In the report we document how much affordable rents would be...
Thornberry/Give me an affordable unit dollar figure.
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Harmon/Affordable was $500 to $800 or less. Under $800 actually... depends on
number of persons within that household...
Norton/I am curious... Iowa City... goal to capture 70%. Why?
Harmon/It is up to the city... Need for the urban area of X number of housing units.
Norton/
Harmon/... goal that we set... that the city can achieve... City of Coralville and North
Liberty might want to step up their housing... Maximum that we feel that the city
can capture... To satisfy that housing demand...
Norton/But if you had to extend infrastructure physically out... Into a more sprawl out
situation, it might not be virtuous to try to capture that... Trade off...
Harmon/Our perspective is from a market perspective... Not is from what is beneficial to
the city's tax base and so forth.
Thornberry/Interesting this flat job growth...
Harmon/Does not include the small-
Thornberry/There are a lot of small businesses... I employ 46 and I am looking for 20
employees...
Harmon/Flat job growth reflects job growth from only the major employers... All the
growth that occurred was in smaller employers and new industries...
Bill Stewart/When you say flat job growth, do you mean Iowa City or the area that you
are studying?
Harmon/The urban area.
Bill Stewart/What is the impact of the Mall in Coralville?...
Harmon/The vast majority of the jobs at the Mall are not going to be household
sustaining income jobs... Most of those are going to be a spouse... College
kids... teenagers...
Stewart/I would take that to mean... Dean's business... I just can't understand why that
Mall doesn't have a significant impact on this.
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Thornberry/I have five people making over $22,000 a year...
Harmon/...ratio between the number of jobs and number of housing units is going to be
much less in that type of industry. We did calculate as part of the household
growth... Not only Mall but all service industry in particular are growing rapidly.
Lehman/Your calculations on job growth are intended to indicated how they affect the
numbers of households...
Harmon/And those only reflect the largest employers which only make up about 50% of
the jobs in Iowa City.
Kubby/...needing more housing units... Pretty aggressive to meet this total of 3,000
units...
Thomberry/I just think some of their figures are flawed.
Kubby/...that is being conservative about what our plan needs to be... There is a huge
demand out there...
Thornberry/If there is such a demand out there, why are there so many for rent signs?
Lehman/Vacancy rates are less than 3%... Of all the units.
Harmon/You have a lot of units and a lot of turnover.
Champion/...apartment units under repairs...
Kubby/Doesn't HUD say that 5-8% is healthy range of vacancy?
Grosvenor/(Can't hear).
Harmon/We use 5%... Pent up demand is basically how many vacant units there would
be to bring the vacancy rate up to 5%.
Norton/...realtors... More signs than ordinary.
Kubby/We are use to a 1.5% vacancy... Compared to how tight it usually is.
Vanderhoef/
Kubby/People are shuffling around...
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Lehman/
Harmon/To back up the vacancy numbers, we also reviewed some done by the East Iowa
Appraisals... same as ours... done just a few months before ours... Market is
pretty stable at that roughly 2.5%...cyclical vacancies... There is actually pent up
demand.
Lehman/...proj ected housing shortage... Through year 2010... There is need for more
housing...
Thornberry/
Kathleen Renquist/Speaking from experience and from my daughter and son-in-law,
they can't afford places $500 a month.
Thomberry/I wouldn't think $500 a month would be affordable...
Renquist/Those supposedly affordable apartments are not affordable.
Vanderhoef/People who want them are the ones who are on that $1500 or $16,000 a year
salary...
Renquist/$7.00 an hour with degrees... No health care...
Norton/Is our percentage of older housing unusual?
Harmon/Not for a college based community... Overall, throughout the United States, it
is about 3/4 ownership and 25% renter. In other cities with colleges, it is closer to
50%.
Norton/What about the age of houses?... need for rehab.
Harmon/Iowa does have a little bit older housing stock than most states.
Kubby/A lot of them are rental... Rental Inspection Program...
Norton/
Kubby/... big question is what to we do?... How does this help us?... How much and
what kind of changes?... What do we do?
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Norton/...We are reviewing codes... regulations... If you look at this figures... not
incompatible... STEPS Program... consistent... Going to have to deal with
issues... How to stimulate affordable or low income houses... Accept more
density...
Dan Coleman/Peninsula process... I forget what percentage of affordable that was
recommended there... Much lower than what was indicated in these
recommendations here... How can we bring that inline with these
recommendations?
Kubby/
Thornberry/I would resist, however, putting a vast majority or a large number of low
income housing in one area... We have already got that and we have got problems
in that area...
Kubby/40% of the new units should be affordable... He is saying if the number is 40%,
maybe that percentage of the housing in the peninsula should be affordable.
Coleman/...integrate it... You don't have the problems you associate with ghetto loss...
Thomberry/
Norton/Question is what percentage?...some areas have to carry a heavier...
Thornberry/
Champion/
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-74 SIDE 2
Champion/...affordable housing to me is the average family with an average income in
the community can buy that house... Low income housing is housing that is either
subsidized or treated differently so that people who are making lower than the
average income can afford to buy that house... $100,000 house to me is not low
income housing... Or even $80,000 house...
Kubby/
Thornberry/If you can't afford an $80,000, maybe you ought to be in an apartment...
Champion/Or condominium...
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Vanderhoef/I have a question on how we can get figures that separate some of this very
low income which are our student population... Things get skewed in here... Low
economic group who are on the rise... Low term population as to our student
population...
Harmon/In the demand calculations, we give you a snap shot of how many housing units
are affordable to person at 0 to 30%... We did some calculations of how many
students occupy units in that 0 to 30%; 30 to 50%; and that is surplus and
shortfall... excludes the students... Students are so mobile, there is no concrete
information. We based them on other study... 2/3 of households in very low
income... were students...applied those percentages to that... no concrete
information...
Kubby/Student status isn't the important thing... Not an important way to look at it. It is
to look at that percentage of transiency and vacancy and renters versus
homeownership... We need to serve the student population in our short term and
long term housing needs...
Vanderhoef/...what is the University's responsibility for part of this housing need that
we see here?
Kubby/...demographics of students... trend... I think the University does have a
responsibility and role to play here.
Harmon/Another significant problem that students pose is there may not have no income
of their own but their parents are paying for their housing... Financial aid. There
is no way to measure that...
Kubby/...talk with the University...
Norton/... they throw it on the town.
Kubby/
(Man)/A lot of Universities are starting to see the marketing advantages of having their
own on campus housing... Marketing advantage...
Lehman/Two sides to that... If University... interfering with the market... We are going
to be looking at the Peninsula Project... other projects... behoove us to talk to our
own H.I.S... committees and ask for suggestions... to try to accommodate at least
part of this demand... Receive the report and become aware of it.
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Kubby/I would love to hear from the HCD Commission what you think our next steps
are... And what do you recommend to us...
Lehman/...prefer letting them have a meeting and present a plan...
Norton/...tell us what to do... Housing Forum told us some things...
Lehman/Thank you very much.
[Council Break]
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Planning and Zoning Items 98-74 Side 2
a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for July 7 on an ordinance amending
Title 14, Chapter 6, Zoning, Article A, Zoning Title, Purpose and Scope, Section 4,
Scope, to allow more than one principal building on a lot for religious institution
uses permitted by special exception in RS zones and the RNC-12 zone.
Franklin/First item is to set a p.h. for July 7 on an amendment to allow more than one
principle building for religious institution in a RS zone...
b. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for July 7 on an ordinance amending
Title 14, Chapter 6, Zoning, Article K, Environmental Regulations, Section 1,
Sensitive Areas Ordinance, to add a retention requirement for woodlands in
Factory-Built Housing Residential (RFBH) zones.
Franklin/Set a p.h. on July 7 for an ordinance amendment to add retention requirement
for woodlands and factory built housing... RFBH zones.
Kubby/Did you leave that out consciously?
Franklin/No, we left it out unconsciously...
c. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for July 7 on an ordinance changing
the zoning designation of approximately 22.20 acres from Public (P) to
Public/Intensive Commercial (P/CI-1) for property located at 1801 S. Riverside
Drive. (REZ98-0005)
Franklin/Third item is to set a p.h. for July 7 on an ordinance rezoning a portion of the
noah commercial park at the airport... from P to P/CI-1 so that we can proceed
with that 54 acre development...
Kubby/Does that mean the zone is double zoned?...
Franklin/...it is still publicly owned... can have private development on it and that
private development would conform to CI-1 zoning regulations...
Kubby/
Franklin/
Vanderhoef/Has P/Z talked about this one?
Franklin/They have recommended approval.
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Vanderhoef/I would just like to see those minutes before we have the p.h.
Franklin/You will... P.h. is not until July 7. This is just setting the p.h.
d. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for July 7 on an ordinance changing
the zoning designation for 6.53 acres from Low Density Single-Family Residential
(RS-5) zone to Sensitive Areas Overlay (OSA-5) zone for property located at 2727
Rochester Avenue. (REZ98-0006)
Franklin/Next item is also setting a p.h. on an ordinance changing the zoning designation
of approximately 6 acres offof Rochester Avenue from RS-5 to OSA-5. This is
for a 15 lot residential subdivision that comes off of Green Mountain Drive. The
applicant here has requested expedited consideration. What we do is on your
meeting of July 7 you will have the p.h. and the opportunity to give first
consideration if you wish to that night. If you choose not to, obviously you may
do so... Do the p.h. and first consideration on the 7th' waive the second on the 28th
and give final on the 28th or use one of your special meetings during that time
period to take care of some of the other readings...
Kubby/But there were some questions about access and frontage...
Franklin/There were some issues that we talked about at a staff level and with the
developer... Stormwater management... wasn't a lot... There were questions but
there was not opposition.
Champion/...problems for developers is we are having so few meetings this summer...
Lehman/We will discuss that later.
Franklin/That has been the issue this particular developer raised.
Kubby/If the majority wants to expedite... double expedition, I would prefer to do it at a
regular meeting...
Karr/This particular one... timing... final reading would have been July 28th regardless
of your meeting schedule...
e. Public hearing on an ordinance vacating Second Avenue Court, located between
First Avenue and Second Avenue, north of Muscatine Avenue. (VAC98-0003)
Franklin/Next item is the p.h. on the vacation of Second Avenue and Court...
Walgreen's Project... Point out the conditions that came out ofP/Z Commission's
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meeting... Commission did recommend approval with nine conditions... all
enumerated in the CZA... In the Vacation Ordinance... Have you read them all?
Norton/They are all in here.
Kubby/I am still concemed about the lighting... The larger plantings... their leaves will
drop in the winter... Problem for the people across the street... Reduce the
lighting... To something less than that... Ask council members come and sit in
my backyard and see what one foot candle is... Without the maple leaves in the
winter... Maybe do it before the p.h.
Thornberry/What is the city code?
Franklin/The Code is 1.5 foot candles at the property line. HyVee standard was one foot
candle at the property line. At the sidewalk on the eastside of First Avenue it
measures .8, across the street it is about .5... further away it obviously
diminishes...
Norton/We can add a condition that is tighter than that...
Kubby/
Franklin/It is the vacation of Second Avenue Court that gives you the discretion in this
case... Does allow you some more discretion here... Allowing a larger project...
Champion/...I don't know why parking lots have to be like bright daylight 24 hours a
day.
(All talking).
Thornberry/Until the neighbors bring us a petition for a large majority or whatever...
Keep what we got until the neighbors complain in mass with a petition...
Norton/...go out and see what it looks like...
O'Donnell/I haven't one complaint from any of the neighbors...
Thomberry/I have had a lighting study done at my parking lot and I will bring in that
professional study that I had to pay $1500 for... Burger King... requiring me to
upgrade my lighting. I don't want to... You can see my lighting...
Kubby/We have agreed that we want to review our lighting performance standards as
part of our Comprehensive Plan.
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Franklin/You will have that in September.
Kubby/It may be a different case when you are in a commercial area...
Thomberry/
Kubby/...Why don't you go door to door and talk to people...?
Thornberry/
Norton/No point of forcing people to go to that difficulty... Let's take a look...
Champion/If you told me that Walgreen' s was going to put one candle foot... I wouldn't
know what that meant...
Thomberry/Our ordinance now is 1.5.
Franklin/One of the things that you can use as a way to measure... We did some
measures... In a residential area ... directly under the streetlight is two foot
candles. If you go southwest of the streetlight and you are standing on the
comer... it is .5 foot candles... North Dodge Eagle's, underneath the lamp in the
parking lot it is 8.5... At the property line, which is where we do our measures...
It is .5... As the trees grow up in a parking lot, that makes a big difference. In the
First Avenue HyVee, underneath the lamp in the parking lot is 1.2 foot candle. At
the SW comer of the site is. 8 ... tree requirements in the parking lots...
Norton/No doubt it falls off as an inverse square?
Franklin/Yes, I think that is correct.
(All talking).
Franklin/The two conditions that pertain to this have to do with the foot candle at the
west and the north property lines and then also the site plan would obviously go
through my department as a matter of course. We would approve the height of
any light poles. We are going to try to keep them down. The HyVee poles... 38
feet tall... Walgreen's is looking at 14 foot poles... on top of their grading.
Kubby/
Lehman/Significant difference... height of the pole...
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Franklin/At the property line, that measure is taken... irrespective of the height of the
poles...
Kubby/...one foot candle... at the property line...
Lehman/...It isn't the property line that concerns...
Franklin/...it goes down as you move away from the property line.
Vanderhoef/You can do some regulating by height of pole... Different subject. Have you
talked at all about the impact of traffic on Muscatine, west of the First Avenue
intersection?... We also have at least a turn lane... How are we going to take care
of stacking for east bound traffic wanting to get into the Walgreen property?...
Franklin/...I don't believe if you were stopped to turn left into Walgreen on Muscatine,
that you would be overlapping the turn lane on Muscatine to go onto First
Avenue... Entrance is far enough to the west on the Walgreen site... Not going to
interfere...
Vanderhoef/But you will stop all the traffic trying to get to that.
Franklin/Yes...
Vanderhoef/I am concemed... traffic flow.
Kubby/...traffic is stacked up... come up around the curve... Peak time...
Davidson/...when somebody is yielding to make a left turn, they close down capacity of
that left lane... Gaps... created by that signal.
Vanderhoef/...negotiation done with the HyVee... Allow for some stacking space... I
would like to see a little bit more done...
Franklin/We have required dedication of an extra seven feet on Muscatine from
Walgreens and an extra 2.5 feet on First Avenue in terms of having that r.o.w. if
we should ever need to do capacity expansion.
Vanderhoef/But you haven't had any discussion with them as far as assisting us to pay
for that project fight now?
Franklin/I don't think we could make the direct correlation between this project and that
need for capacity expansion... Because we cannot say that this project is going to
be the catalyst for doing that...
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Vanderhoef/After the fact... What are our options?
Franklin/The capacity expansion at that point would be a function of general growth in
the community... shopping patterns...
Davidson/We did feel a little bit more strongly about the HyVee situation because it is a
much larger structure and it was on a street with higher traffic volumes... Plus we
had a pending reconstruction project...
(All talking).
Franklin/You are going to get a lot of people making combined trips...
Vanderhoef/Concerns me with the traffic pattern on First Avenue... Heyns Ice Cream...
absolutely a killer...
Franklin/No, it is not the same configuration.
Vanderhoef/It is a both way turn in that center lane... It is going to be-
Lehman/I think trying to cross that street... Difficult...
Kubby/... There is conflict now...
Norton/
Kubby/Bigger issue... Lower cost rental housing... going to be removing... facilitating
the removal of 29 lower cost rental units on a bus line... with our vote to vacate
the alley which we are not obligated...
O'Donnell/All of those people have already agreed.
Kubby/The owners have.
Vanderhoef/...under-utilization of the land in there... Surprised... Already zoned
commercial...
Kubby/Housing... 29 units...
Norton/
Lehman/
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Kubby/Decision that we are under no legal obligation to make... tearing down lower
cost rental housing... I would like to hear some discussion about that...
O'Donnell/The zoning is proper... I think it is a good project... Some of that housing...
Kubby/All had rental permits... passed inspections... They all meet our stringent
housing codes.
O'Donnell/I have heard... one of those buildings has fallen through the flow into the
next apartment...
Norton/...they could have done something in a smaller space.
Kubby/Why should we facilitate a project that would take down this kind of housing?
Lehman/I feel that if owners of that property, that is zoned commercial, wishes to do
something... I can't see us withholding the vacation of an alley... It is zoned
commercial...
Kubby/...what are we going to do as a city council to help facilitate the replacement of
these units?...
Norton/We are going to have to find some way to zone... for higher density.
Thornberry/
Kubby/
Thornberry/We made a commitment to relocate...
(All talking).
Norton/
O'Donnell/Incredible that we talk about affordable housing and we don't have affordable
ground to put affordable housing on. We have plumbing and electrical codes that
are higher than required federally, state... And complain about how expensive it
is to build here...
Lehman/This is a discussion for another time.
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Kubby/I just want us to be conscious of the result from the decision that we are going to
make... Acknowledge...
Franklin/
Vanderhoef/Tell me what pros and cons are for the neighborhood to have that drive
through...
Franklin/...I don't know what the pros would be other than they are customers of
Walgreen's. . . The cons, in terms of the headlights, there will be a solid fence
back along the noah and west boundaries...
Kubby/
Franklin/We did a survey of cars to find out about how high headlights are... The
highest one was 3.9 feet to the top of the highlights... Most cars are between 2
and 3 feet... Four foot wall should handle it.
Vanderhoef/The lot is not going to change the tilt...
Franklin/The site that is going to be used is very flat... Filling... retaining walls and a
terrace... very flat... Except when you are coming in on First Avenue... you go
up...
Vanderhoef/Thank you.
Kubby/...neighbors... Suggested some more plantings... New site plan...
L Public hearing on an ordinance vacating the northern 200 feet of the alley between
Lafayette Street and Benton Street, west of Dubuque Street, Iowa City, Iowa.
(VAC98-0002)
Franklin/P.h. on an ordinance... Vacating noah 200 feet of the alley between Lafayette
and Benton Street...being done at request of Hawkeye Lumber... Go ahead and
vacate the alley but retain ownership in case we need it in the future.
Norton/...Weren't they asking to buy it?
Franklin/They were asking to buy it but we are suggesting that we lease it and not sell
it... As long as they can use it... storage...
g. Consider an ordinance amending Title 14, Chapter 6, Zoning, Article T,
Nonconforming Uses, Structures and Land, Section 5, Regulation of Nonconforming
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Lots, by changing the regulation of nonconforming lots of record. (Second
consideration)
Franklin/Second consideration of the ordinance amendment regarding non-conforming
lots of record... request to expedite that...
h. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 5.4
acres from Community Commercial (CC-2, 2.4 acres) and General Industrial (I-l,
3.0 acres) to Public (P) for property owned by Kirkwood Community College at
1806, 1810, 1814, and 1816 Lower Muscatine Road. (REZ98-0003) (Second
consideration)
Franklin/Second consideration of the rezoning for Kirkwood to P.
i. Consider a resolution approving a preliminary and final plat of a Resubdivision of
Lot 7, WB Development, a 1.78 acre, 3-lot commercial subdivision located at Naples
Avenue and Escort Lane. (SUB98-0010)
Franklin/Last item is a resolution approving the preliminary and final plat of the
resubdivision of lot 7, WB Development. We are still working through legal
papers on this. If those are not done by tomorrow night, I will let you know... Jeff
Maxwell... Has consented to allow this subdivision to hook onto his sewer. We
need to get the sewer allocation work... That is going to occur before we issue a
building permit.
Kubby/
Franklin/There won't be unlimited capacity. There is limited capacity in this whole
development. And we have the tools to insure that there is no development which
cannot be sewered.
Kubby/...sewer capacity... Can the city legally deny a building permit for the last lot if
everybody has used a little more and there is not enough capacity?
Franklin/Yes.
Kubby/
Franklin/It should be flagged, yes. I am done.
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Teg Drive 98-74 S2
TEG DRIVE
Doug Ripley/About a year ago as most of you are probably aware in cooperation with
the neighborhood, working with them through our traffic calming process we
installed seven speed humps along Teg Drive. Basically from Benton Street
down to just south of Flannigan. Since then was our first go around with this
process we wanted to make sure we had a lot of before and after data to see how it
was working. To see what bugs we need to work out. And so we collected a
number of different things. One of them was traffic volumes and speeds. After
the speed humps were installed we did see a considerable decrease in both speeds
and volumes along were the speed humps were installed. They did come up a
little bit after a nine month count that was taken but generally they stayed below
were they were initially and within the range that we were hoping to achieve. We
also did a survey of the neighborhoods both before and after and the before survey
is what prompted them getting installed. The after survey we did just recently, in
May, and we had 53 of 84 surveys that were returned, 68 approved of the speed
humps. The comments ranged from they really liked the increased safety, they
thought they were being effective. And then we had 20% disapprove or excuse
me 19% disapprove of the speed humps but would like a different alternative
looked into and then 13% did not like the speed humps and did not want traffic
calming pursued. Most of those comments were based on the discomfort of them,
the wear and tear that they thought was on their vehicles and a couple of them
cited some of the emergency response concerns that I'll go into in just a second.
Also since this was our first time we worked real closely with the emergency
response and service providers (transit, refuse, streets) to determine what their
concerns were, whether they were effective from their standpoint, from snow
removal and emergency response. The most significant comments we received
were from the Fire Department, and their comments were basically that they are
opposed to the humps because of the delayed response time given the size of their
apparatus they have to slow down, correct me if I'm wrong Andy 5-10 miles an
hour before going over them. With the seven consecutive humps that creates a
pretty substantial decline in their service provision. Given the contrast in the
neighborhoods and Fire Department opinions of these we wanted to bring this to
your attention. The Fire Department does recognize the neighborhoods concerns
about the speed and volume and advocate trying a different traffic calming
approach. They'd be willing to work with the neighborhood to try something
that's a little bit less invasive to the response times. With that I'll just open it up
to any questions that you may have.
Kubby/Do we have any information how often the larger pieces of Fire equipment are
going down Teg Drive? How many times in the last couple of years?
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Ripley/I'd refer that to the Chief?.
Thornberry/It would only take once if your house was on fire.
Andy RoccaJ That's the point I was going to try and make. I didn't bring the historical
data to show you how many times that we've been down there but the vast
majority of our responses as you well know are medical responses. About 1800
in a year's time.
Kubby/I guess the reason I asked that is that our role here when there' s kinda this
conflict in what to do is weight risk. And I know that our traffic calming in the
future probably would not allow humps on a collector or arterial street. But
we've all agreed at the very beginning that this arterial/collector street is a
different because of the park and because of the use of that park. And so I'm
weighing that risk the once in a blue moon need for that safety equipment and the
risk all the time of children and other people going to the park and trying to weigh
that out.
Thornberry/Safety, safety.
Kubby/There are two safety issues that are in competition. And which is the higher risk
one.
Thomberry/Okay.
Kubby/Which is the higher risk and also just the whole process that we've gone
through.
Thornberry/My question would be what are the alternatives to the humps?
Rocca/Doug can certainly speak to that better than I.
Ripley/We haven't, evaluating the specific alternatives, there' s a number of different
ones that were in the traffic calming brochures and some of the different things
that probably will not be quite as invasive as the humps and may have a little bit
less impact on the speeds and volumes but may accomplish the goals. Some of
them would be I know the primary concerns is pedestrians crossing at the park or
crossing into the park would be to narrow the roadway to some degree. To
narrow those pedestrian crossings. That's just one example we haven't looked
into it specifically.
Thornberry/How about a painted area where you cross, not just anywhere you want to
cross there to get to the park, but a specific area to cross and then have a sign up
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"Yield to Pedestrians" like they do at these other places and maybe with rumble
strips or something like this.
Kubby/Do you want rumble strips?
Thomberry/I like rumble strips as opposed to the humps.
Kubby/You know the neighbors they did so much, they really educated us about traffic
calming.
Thornberry/Yea.
Kubby/They really looked into it and that we created this process. We've gotten the
data. This neighborhood has been dealing with this for like four years.
Thomberry/I know.
Kubby/They've gone through the process. All the indicators from that process except
for this one balancing of risk says leave the humps and make them permanent.
Norton/Well I understand that Portland for example has speed humps...they have
rotaries...let me tell you that would slow you down too with the some of the
trucks... Or a chicane.
Thornberry/A what Dee?
Norton/Rotary, a circle in the middle of the street so you have to kinda go around a half
circle. Or a chicane which makes it go like that. All of those will also slow you
down in other words I was going to say if it doesn't slow the fire trucks it
wouldn't be a traffic calming device. Designed to slow them down. I understand
that' s a problem but I've heard that from somebody at least that talked to the
people in Portland that they've been able to manage it. It's a bit of a problem but
you know you accept that for the benefits you gain from slowing the average
speed down there.
Thornberry/The ambulance response team if you were in need you'd want them to there
as soon as possible. But I understand children getting to the park too but to cross
anywhere they want across that street doesn't seem fight either.
Norton/Well in principle they're suppose to cross at a crosswalk...
Champion/But that's not the way life is.
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Lehman/Doug, is there another traffic calming device as effective as humps as far as
controlling the speed of cars? Now we know stop signs...
Ripley/Locally we don't know for sure because we have never installed anything except
for the humps. There are a number of other things that are being used in other
communities and I don't have the studies of whether they are more effective or
less effective in controlling the speed.
Lehman/I feel, and Karen you alluded to this, we worked with this neighborhood for a
long long time. They went to a tremendous amount of effort. We told them we
would give them a year trial to see if this would work. Recently we sent this
survey asking them if we wanted this to be permanent, or if they wanted this to be
permanent. I don't think we had any business asking them if this were if they
wanted this to be permanent if we weren't willing to make it permanent. I have a
little problem with asking in a survey do you want this to be permanent and then
us discussing whether or not...
Norton/Yea.
Lehman/We had information prior to sending this survey out that indicated that the Fire
Department had some reservations about this.
Ripley/Which was included in the survey.
Champion/(Yes)
Lehman/Right. But the question still is there do you want it permanent.
Ripley/I don't have the survey with me. I think the question was phrased do you
approve of the speed humps and I'd have to dig up the survey just to check...
Kubby/Is there anyone...
Norton/I'm I correct in assuming that...
Vanderhoef/I've got something else. When I look at the neighbors here and the phones
that I have received are from the further south people and the increase in speed
that happens immediately following the humps so for me it's real obvious that we
are getting some relive from the humps however, they're asking for traffic
calming further south.
Ripley/Correct.
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Vanderhoef/Primarily humps.
Ripley/We've been contacted by those neighbors also.
Vanderhoef/So, what I'd like to do instead of saying yes or no on the humps right now
what I'd like to say is they're working right now and they haven't totally
deteriorated can we leave them in place for the moment and try some other kinds
of things further south and see how that might work
TAPE #98-75
Vanderhoef/...we have to do.
Kubby/Can I put a twist on that and see how you feel about it?
Vanderhoef/Well try it.
Kubby/Because the neighborhood has been working for so long on this issue I hate
when you have active neighborhoods to always have them looking over their
shoulder. We have to keep activated on this one issue when there's twenty other
issues they want to be working on for their neighborhood so the twist would be to
make the humps permanent and to look at what traffic calming measures work
well with humps further south that are not humps.
Thornberry/Yea.
Kubby/Combination.
Norton/Make them... but still do something south.
(All talking)
Vanderhoef/Well I'm not willing to put money into the humps to make them permanent
at this point. That's what I'm trying to see because what is in my mind is that if
these other things do not work then if we're going to back and make them
permanent we may put in some more.
Lehman/I have a question.
Vanderhoef/But in this whole conversation what keeps coming up for me and I look at
the numbers here and you know the first three months it cut the volume down
pretty dramatically and at nine months its grown back up there. We have a
problem on the west side of Iowa City getting north/south traffic and we are in the
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process fight now of building another street that is going to have exactly the same
kind of problem and it's called Shannon Drive.
Norton/Going to build some curves in that though.
Vanderhoef/All right but there still going to use it as a cut through and we're designing
it with some driveways, and children going across there. There are certain things
that we have to recognize in this City that Mormon Trek can not handle all the
traffic north/south over there on the west side of Iowa City and are we going to
consistently make some sort of a problem for children to get across streets and for
people to move in the traffic in the City. I mean we are growing.
Thornberry/Dee, what are streets for? There're not to get kids across the street. I
mean...
Vanderhoef/There're to move traffic.
Thornberry/...there to move traffic.
Vanderhoef/That's what I'm trying to say.
Norton/Move it safely.
Vanderhoef/To move it safely and we need more than one arterial.
Norton/I'm getting tired of people worried about a five minute delay. Give me a break.
They don't have to be there instantly.
Vanderhoef/But more than one arterial is the problem and Teg Drive was okay even
though all the people who built houses along there knew at some point in time
that street was going to go through. You know, that was listed as a collector from
day 1. So now it is through and we have a traffic calming problem. So I'd like to
be more futuristic in this.
Champion/I'm for doing the humps. I agree, I actually agree with that Karen says, I
love to tease you like that...I don't see any reason to re-visit the same problem in
a year. It's just more discussion, more about it, more discussion if we have four
people who are willing to put the humps in let' s just do it because I don't want to
re-visit it in a year.
Thornberry/...more humps...or what?
Norton/And also investigate what to do down south.
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Champion/Right.
Kubby/It's not recommended to have more than eight in a series anyway I don't think.
Is that right?
Ripley/No, that depends on the length of the street. The eight that you mention I assume
comes from the study that was cited by the Fire Department. For each eight
humps it's a minute of delay...
Kubby/No, I was reading somewhere else that you know you don't want this whole
street with nothing but humps. I would not be for that.
Thornberry/Right.
Champion/We wouldn't do that anyway.
Lehman/Well, in regards to your question the question here does say...I would like the
seven speed humps on Teg Drive remain and become a permanent part of Teg
Drive. We did give them the option of selecting it to be permanent. Now as far
as making them permanent I think there's a couple of different things. Obviously
a permanent hump would be or probably would be constructed out of something
other than asphalt.
Ripley/Correct.
Lehman/We have found the asphalt has been thus far fairly serviceable isthat not true?
Ripley/That is true.
Lehman/They are in good condition.
Ripley/Yes they are.
Lehman/That is probably is minimal keeping those in good condition as asphalt humps?
Ripley/We can keep an eye on them until they degrade.
Lehman/But my point is I would I prefer leaving them there the way we said we were
going to do it. I do not favor and I think that if we look at the expensive of
cutting the street out and putting in concrete humps that we probably will say hey
we're not going to do that. But because we've gone this far with the
neighborhood and told them I would like to be able to tell them these are
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permanent humps. We will maintain them. We'll see to it they meet
specifications for humps. We will maintain them as asphalt until such point as we
can't afford it or such time as we find some sort of device that works better. But I
think they need to be able to know at this point that the efforts that they have gone
through and the questions that we've asked them and what we've told them in the
past are valid and that we will maintain those the way that we said we would.
Kubby/The scary part is though for the neighborhood is what you just said. Is that or
some other device. In that if we leave them asphalt and when they deteriorate
then this question can come back up. I mean Andy is doing his job he's going to
bring it back up at that time and say hey the humps are deteriorating we're going
to take them out and there are other things we can do.
Lehman/I say we make them permanent.
Thornberry/Maybe they'll have something novel that we haven't thought of before. I'd
like to see the speed humps stay but realistically I'd like to see them moveable so
that people don't know exactly where they are all the time.
Lehman/Dream on.
Thornberry/So they keep their speed down the whole time and they never know...
Champion/Pop up out of the ground.
(Laughter)
Lehman/I don't think that one is going to fly.
Thornberry/You don't know what technology is going to come too.
Norton/I don't know that there's any way to promise...future. I think I would like to
see them permanent and Ernie's saying permanent in one sense and Karen's
saying permanent in a concrete sense. I think if we investigate other methods on
the other section. I do think that we...the problems here with the time of day and
day of the week you did this and who was in this survey. Was it the same group
both times? Were south people over represented the second time, as I understand
that might have been the case, so you get different views. I'm nervous about the
figures a bit but I do think we ought to put them in permanently and try something
on the other end of that street to give those people a break because they may be a
tendency to speed up.
Lehman/Do we have four people that concur?
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Vanderhoef/May I offer one other thing before you take a vote please? Because I'm real
serious about the cost of doing all of this and the safety that I have, the concern I
have both for the fire and the emergency vehicles and for getting to the park.
Before we put a lot of money into permanent concrete cut-outs and speed humps
and so forth I'd like to see about putting an overpass bridge, pedestrian, to get to
the park.
Kubby/On Teg?
Vanderhoef/Over there. I'm sorry we've got a growing park, we've got a growing area
that still hasn't been completely developed.
Lehman/How are you going to get them to use the bridge?
O'Donnell/Why don't we get them a crossing light and let them push a button? Another
traffic calming...
Vanderhoef/I can do that.
Kubby/...four years of work of the neighborhood and the City...
O'Donnell/I want that process. I want a way to get the kids across the street safely.
Vanderhoef/It's just growing with...it's becoming a community wide park that's
bringing people to that area above and beyond what's in that neighborhood.
Thornberry/Oh, before we do that Dee I think the overpass walking bridge is necessarily
needed on Hwy 6 bypass before...
Vanderhoef/That's one of them that needs it too and we're also going to need one on
South Gilbert.
Thornberry/...to get to school.
Lehman/Hold it. Andy.
RoccaJ I just wanted to add that certainly it is a risk versus a benefit issue here...
Norton/Yea.
Rocca/...and I want you to know that is my job to look at anything that prevents or
slows us down from responding to emergencies in the City and so as I said earlier
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generally we're not opposed to traffic calming but in this instance when you
continue to build in additional time to our responses I'm opposed to that. I know
that's what you want me to say when I see those things. So what I want is you to
make an informed decision and you know up front that in this particular area of
town you are adding to our response times in a fire emergency and EMS
emergency. Risk versus benefit. The decision is yours to make. It should be an
informed one. Thank you.
Kubby/Thank you.
Thornberry/Have them wear their seatbelts and when they bounce over that they don't
hit their head on the top...
Norton/Let clarify what we mean when we say permanent if we're going tovote that
way. What do we mean? Do we mean cement or do we mean this until it wears
out? Or what do we mean?
Lehman/I would prefer leaving the asphalt until, it appears they're wearing well, as such
time as they deteriorate then I think they would have to be replaced with the more
permanent material.
Atkins/We understood that they basically would remain the way they are and they will
be kept in good order.
Lehman/That's what I would like to see...but that we are...
Atkins/...deteriorate they will be repaired and brought back to their original...
Lehman/But we are telling the folks if I understand correctly that this will be permanent
on that street.
Kubby/As long as that's part of the public record and that it's clear.
Lehman/That' s the part I think we need to make very clear.
O'Donnell/Are they all aware of the delay in the response time at this time. Was that on
the survey?
Ripley/It was on the survey, yes. The same information that was on the memorandum I
sent you...
Lehman/Right.
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Ripley/...was the same information that they received.
Vanderhoef/It's there.
Thornberry/Pretty clear majority of what they wanted.
Norton/It's not easy I tell you.
Lehman/Okay, what's your pleasure?
Thornberry/Yep, let's do it.
Champion/Let's do it.
Lehman/Leave them.
(YES)
O'Donnell/Like it is.
Vanderhoef/Leave them and check what's on the south.
Lehman/Alright.
Kubby/Permanent asphalt.
Norton/Yea, permanent asphalt I guess.
Kubby/That's what people are saying. I prefer permanent concrete.
Norton/But I can't get four votes for permanent concrete.
Champion/Well you might.
Lehman/No you can't.
Vanderhoef/No you can not.
Kubby/Permanent concrete there's three.
Norton/We got three.
Vanderhoef/Yea.
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Norton/Permanent asphalt we got four. Could we get four...
O'Donnell/Only if you can move them around.
Vanderhoef/Not concrete.
Thornberry/Thought it was a neat idea.
(laughter)
Lehman/JeffDavidson is waiting. We don't want this to be a permanent discussion.
Okay.
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Kirkwood Avenue 98-75 S1
Davidson/In the early 90's we reconstructed Kirkwood Avenue... Controversial issue...
Established a new system of traffic control in that area... Neighborhood group...
did request that traffic control be installed that would discourage traffic from
using Summit Street... Kirkwood Avenue... Three arterial intersections in the
residential portion of the project... Did receive different type of traffic control...
has been working since that time as designed... There is a very high level of
congestion... Couple of months ago... asked us to take a look at what was out
there... summarized in the memo you received... Five observations that we
made... Emphasize... we do not feel... Anyway unsafe... It is simply
inefficient... Designed to be... If you have a desire to increase the efficiency of
traffic flow... Involve the installation of traffic signals at all three of those
intersections... All three of those intersections are warranted for traffic signal...
Speeding up the efficiency of traffic in the area.
Kubby/Leave it as it is and make sure we go forward with traffic calming for the
Highland Avenue neighborhood.
Thornberry/...seems like you have said... That stoplights move traffic faster than stop
signs.
Davidson/At a stop sign, every vehicle has to come to a stop... Stop light, only a certain
percentage of vehicle at any given time comes to a stop... It would be possible to
move more traffic through...
Kubby/...I will take the lights anytime... Keeping my car moving forward.
Norton/Is there any number of lights on Kirkwood, less than three, that would be any
advantage at all?
Davidson/You could do two... Could still leave Summit...
Champion/Traffic on Summit is slower now because it is more congested...
Davidson/
O'Donnell/The recipients of traffic calming on Kirkwood and Summit have been Walnut
and Highland... I think Highland is unsafe... Cars going very fast...
Norton/
O'Donnell/We need to do something to slow them down on highland.
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Norton/Let them travel easier on Kirkwood... increase traffic on Kirkwood...
Davidson/Increasing the efficiency of traffic along Kirkwood would have a positive
effect on Walnut and Highland... We are in the middle of working through the
traffic calming process with them...
(All talking).
Davidson/Most of the comments... motorists who are attempting to use Kirkwood...
Thornberry/
Davidson/
Norton/I would sure like to consider lights at Keokuk and Dodge intersections with
Kirkwood... increasing capacity of Kirkwood without butchering... Summit...
May want to do something else... Highland... Keokuk/Highland intersection... I
am talking lights at Keokuk and Kirkwood and Dodge and Kirkwood...
Thornberry/I don't think we need a light...
Lehman/
Vanderhoef/Where are we on the Hwy 6 study?... What happens there...?
Davidson/Hwy 6 is a tremendous traffic carrying facility... high capacity... 25,000 to
30,000 vehicles a day... a ton of traffic... Difficulty... Getting on from the side
streets... Maximizing traffic flow in Hwy 6.
Vanderhoef/...I am thinking... stop lights for an interim... organized flow... Hwy 6
...change...
Davidson/You are not going to squeeze much more efficiency out of Hwy 6... Once you
are at a five lane facility... Your next step is to get into an expressway type of
design standards... I don't realistically think we are going to be doing on Hwy 6.
Best thing... Considering... next east-west arterial... to the south... will provide
some relief...
Champion/Seem to me that we would leave the stop signs alone... continue with this
study of Highland Avenue...Why does traffic have to move so smoothly all of the
time?
O'Donnell/Because that is what a street is for.
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Thornberry/Where in the world are the people on Highland going?
Champion/I don't know.
O'Donnell/
Vanderhoef/They are avoiding the stop signs...
(All talking).
Thornberry/There is definite traffic calming on the first 3-4 blocks from Sycamore...
(All talking).
Lehman/We have a letter... asking us to do the same thing... Highland... Discourage
cars... Do the same thing... Can you look into that and let us know what we can
do?...
Davidson/That is what we are-
Kubby/The neighborhood is already starting the process of the traffic calming studies...
Lehman/
Norton/There is another way... Hwy 6... serious frontage road... Stoplights on
Kirkwood, you are trying to help Highland now...
(All talking).
Davidson/Mike... political decision made in the early 90's... we feel it is appropriate for
you to reconsider it if you wish.
(All talking).
Kubby/Why can't we see what the traffic calming study says that is appropriate for
Highland... ?
Ripley/We expect to get back to the neighborhood end of June or early July... options...
Davidson/What Doug said is end of June, first part of July we are getting back with the
neighborhood...
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Vanderhoef/What you are saying... impede traffic control on an arterial and force it out
into the neighborhood and then we are suppose to put traffic calming in the
neighborhoods .... I don't agree with it.
Thornberry/I think Highland is more of a neighborhood street than Kirkwood or Hwy 6.
Vanderhoef/Kirkwood is the arterial...
Thornberry/The traffic should be slower on Highland than it is on Kirkwood or Hwy 6.
Vanderhoef/
Champion/
Kubby/
Vanderhoef/I am saying we can handle a whole lot of things and still do it safely on
Kirkwood because of the spacing of lights and move traffic and keep those cars
from cutting through all these other neighborhoods... opinion...
Kubby/Keeping stop signs on Kirkwood and doing traffic calming on Highland to bring
some positive things to both sections of the neighborhood...
Lehman/Let's find the calming devices and things we can do on Highland...
Davidson/Let us work through with the Highland neighborhood... Process... let you
know what happens...
(All talking).
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Transit Interchange 98-75 S1
Fowler/I wanted to come back and update you on the Transit Interchange. We received a
proposal from Shoemaker and Holland... They are recommending at this time...
Take two months to design the project, two months to go through the bidding
phase and award the bid... That will put us at a November 1 start date... They are
recommending the project be delayed until spring... Issues that we are facing are
the quantity of the construction due to the time of year that we would be doing
it... Concern... Weather... contractors are behind...
Kubby/
Vanderhoef/I would... delay everything... Mall... new owner... Talked with Joe...
thought there was a possibility... keep funds for another year...
Fowler/Ron... confident that we would have the funds...
Kubby/...we do have this other issue... not meeting our OSHA standards for restrooms
for our Transit drivers.
Vanderhoef/I have a different scenario... New owners might want to be real
accommodating to their new city...
Thornberry/...I don't think there is any rush for it now... Wait until we see what
happens...
Norton/
Vanderhoef/Estimate was 6 to 9 months...
Fowler/November 1 st is the earliest they are saying... It would be as soon as the frost
would go out of the ground next year... Major water line that runs underneath...
have to relocate a water line...
Kubby/If there is a majority of people who want to wait for the new owners of Old
Capital Mall, can we put a time frame on it... Go forward with this plan in a
timely fashion...
Thomberry/
Lehman/Transit Exchange Building... Beautiful addition to downtown... Very
attractive... need to ...set a date... Set it for next spring...
Thornberry/
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Norton/
Lehman/I think it is only fair to have a time certain...
(All talking).
Thornberry/Drivers have been getting along for a long time... They can wait... There are
restroom facilities here and there.
Champion/This is more than a restroom for the bus drivers... Now it has become a
shelter...
Norton/Let's get a decision by January 1...
(All talking).
Thomberry/You got to give it enough time to fly...
Norton/Get a firm decision...
Vanderhoef/
Lehman/Do we have four for next spring?
Champion/Yes.
Lehman/Construction may be completed by next fall...
Fowler/
Lehman/Two months to build it... Completion is by next fall and there are four of us.
(All talking).
Lehman/Complete by next fall...
Fowler/It is a two month design, so by spring we will make the decision...
Lehman/
Fowler/Do you want me to come back and check with you again?...
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Lehman/We didn't hear you...
Fowler/
Lehman/Go with it...
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Downtown Streetscape 98-75 S1
Bob Kost/BRW... speak to you... About Phase I Streetscape Project for downtown Iowa
City... Rob Winstead and Rick Fosse and David Schoon... Overhead... Phasing
plan... preliminary streetscape plan... Final design and construction documents...
Change in the phasing plan to look at Phase I as being the pedestrian Mall... alley
way... We now have those plans and specifications done and bid forms and
documents filed with the City Clerk and what you see... is a colored version of
the landscape plans from that set... Copies of the other plans... I will walk you
through this...
If we start in the northside of Dubuque Street... Motif... Place shade trees where
there are none... (refers to plans)... New pedestrian light fixtures... and
receptacles... tree...
Thornberry/Are they bigger than what is currently downtown?
Kost/Same size that are presently on Dubuque Street... Existing pattern... five trees...
Stay with that same pattern... Trees that are in there seem to be thriving... We did
think this out pretty carefully with everyone's input...
Kubby/
Kost/We are replacing the bike racks... Posting pillar... siting some benches... Also...
new pedestrian ramps and curb ramps... pedestrian mall... new curb ramps...
Planter... rebuilt... Benches... kiosk... Posting pillar... rearranged some of the
planters... Biggest change... area of Blackhawk Park... Working with Public
Art... sculpture pads... Enlarging the space... Larger performance... Flexibility
of special events... One planter being removed... also a few trees throughout the
pedestrian mall that are in bad shape... A couple of trees have to come out...
Thornberry/Where are the bike racks going to go?...
Kost/We are reorganizing the bike racks to place them ... This side (refers to plans).
Thornberry/Additional number?
Kost/We're at about a wash.
Kubby/Only trees that are coming out are ones that are not doing well?
Kost/That is correct.
Kubby/What about the seating... Will there be a reduction in the overall seating?...
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Kost/There is a redistribution... some reduction... quite small... This is now built as a
seat well... Some flexibility built in...
Kubby/Will the edges of those... Be smooth?
Kost/The tops of all the planters will be smooth...
Vanderhoef/...possibility for seating?
Kost/All of the planters and edges... (refers to plans)... Are done in that same thickness
so that people could actually sit on them... Versatility... one for one
replacement... litter... increase... lights...
Kubby/...concern... planter material... safety issues... Kids climbing and falling all of
the time... wood is not as hard of an impact... Pass on that...
Norton/
Champion/
Vanderhoef/Bare feet on the wood bothers me more.
Lehman/You are looking for comments7
Kost/We wanted to update you.
Lehman/Great.
Norton/...planters... limestone or colored concrete?
Kost/Bidding the project both ways... Also bidding the kiosk and posting pillars as
alternates... May be some economies of scale... Price for 4-5 of them rather than
a price for one...
Lehman/Are we putting in those bids?...
Kost Yes... two new ones going in...
Vanderhoef/What are the regulatory signs?
Kost/Now... three wood ballards... Replace those... parking signs... Could either...
relocated... Pedestrian lights... free standing poles...
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Vanderhoef/
Kost/
O'Donnell/Are there any benches in the mini-park?
Kost/Yes... 8 benches plus the planters... Park bench.
Vanderhoef/
Lehman/
Kost/
Lehman/We are hoping to bid this soon and start construction next month?
Kost/We have a bid opening right now scheduled for July 2... Start on the 21st.
Kubby/
Kost/
Thomberry/What was the price of Phase I?
Kost/... $635,000 - $640,000.
Thomberry/
Fosse/Let me talk about price for just a second... Phase I... (refers to plans)... Might be
disappointed in prices we get on this if the lousy weather keeps up...
(All talking).
Lehman/...can approve the bids at the meeting in July.
Fosse/On the 7th... Thank you.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-75 SIDE 2
Parks Maintenance 98-75 S2
Trueblood/Steve said he would like a little dog and pony show... brought Terry
Robinson along with me... Terry... Superintendent of Parks and Forestry... Talk
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to you tonight about our proposed Park Maintenance Facility... After
discussing... determined that a complete tear down and rebuild was the best
option... other locations other than City Park... build this at very noah end of
Napoleon Park... (refers to map)... ball fields are down this way... Overflow
parking... This area did not flood in 1993... Sewer line... comes 50 feet outside
of this... 75 X 150 foot building... Show parking on both ends... Not going to be
exactly like this...
Kubby/What do you need all of that parking?...
Trueblood/Employees... visitors... To the Park Office... This plan shows 50 parking
spaces. In the summertime... 35-40 employees... Looking at a pre-engineered
building... Showing concept right here (refers to plans)... Landscaping up the
bank... screen it quite well... Main entryway to the building.
Champion/What would the material be?
Trueblood/Metal siding... might put a parcel brick facing on the outside of that...
(All talking).
O'Donnell/Why did you decide not to go in City park?
Trueblood/Several reasons... flooding... 1993 our shop got flooded... Quicker to get to
and from Napoleon Park... Make it a more attractive park...
Norton/Cut down on big truck traffic through the park.
Trueblood/It will improve parking situation.'.. Especially for boys baseball and tennis...
Make it much better... Looking at... Do have that relatively new pole building...
looking at retaining it but dressing it up some primarily for storage... Also
looking at the main shop... back part of it... tearing that down... saving the old
shop... equipment storage... Locking that off... Fixing up the interior... enclosed
shelter... Could serve as warming house for skating...
These are not finalized at this time (refers to plans)... equipment storage... Large
doors... Paint room... Woodworking... Maintenance... Mechanical storage
rooms... break room... locker area... restrooms... tool storage... reception and
office... main entrance... waiting room... Movable wall kind of thing...
Kubby/What about the grade...sight distance?...
Trueblood/
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Robinson/...architect is so concerned about... I wanted to try to orient the building east
west as opposed to noah south... Had to tum it 90 degrees to run it noah and
south... Grade... still not 100% convinced that we have the perfect sight distance
that we want there... It is real close...
Kubby/During the summer we have a lot of cyclists...
Robinson/From the noah it is no problem...
Norton/
Lehman/...architect fees... $57,000. How much of that is engineering7 A building like
this there is not a lot of engineering?...
Trueblood/I really can't tell you...
Lehman/
(All talking).
Atkins/(Can't hear).
Lehman/Engineering for the site...
Trueblood/...local architect...
Lehman/...Let bids for projects... See the bid... have to have another fee...
Atkins/This project (can't hear)... I think that money is extremely well spent...
Lehman/When you approve the expenditures... Example... Trails...
Kubby/
Atkins/...we try to uncover all the costs that we can... This project... pretty straight
forward...
Norton/Given the number of capital projects we try to do... Money very well spent...
Lehman/...I personally would like to know about it up front when I look at the bid.
Atkins/...We do try to incorporate...
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Thornberry/... airport... t-hangers... this is basically a metal building.
Atkins/As I understand the law in Iowa... have to have a registered architect for a
standing building of a commercial property... You are paying...
Trueblood/We even have to have it for park shelters now.
Atkins/
(All talking).
O'Donnell/When can we start this building?
Trueblood/We should be able to start this building in about 2 - 2 ½ months... Three
months...
O'Donnell/And this would get all the trucks out of the cemetery?
Trueblood/All of the Forestry trucks.
(All talking).
Norton/You want to start and build it this fall?
Trueblood/Yes.
Vanderhoef/Let's go for it.
Trueblood/...sometimes... projects... Inspection... Scanlon Gynmasium... This
building don't require everyday inspection... Occasional inspection that is
included in the fee... One response... By the time this is constructed, we might
have the bicycle route behind this building...
(All talking).
Trueblood/Terry, are you having trouble getting help as far as maintenance is concerned
for the parks?
Norton/Why is this?
Thornberry/Hickory Hill... Hard to find... I will talk to you later about it.
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Airport Hangars 98-75 S2
Ron O'Neil/Bring back a project... Same project... Airport Terminal Building is right
there (refers to plans)... Having a site plan done fight now... like to put a 120 X
120 building in there... Put what will fit... What I would like from you tonight is
for you to be on board for us to go out with plans and specs... Working with Iowa
City Flying Service... Serious about doing some upgrades... willing to invest
some money in the airport... Negotiating... When this comes back, if we can't
negotiate a contract with Iowa City Flying Service to pay for the building... Keep
the FBO lease and this building lease separate... Need to know ... go ahead to
develop plans and specs and take it out to bid?
Thornberry/Ron, would this building be big enough to work on the airplanes in the
winter time with out the tail sticking out the door?...
O'Neil/Yes... One of the things... shop building... Space-wise... replace the shop
building and the United Hangar would have to be moved...
Lehman/... a loan the city would be repaid for?
O'Neil/That is correct... Interdepartmental loan... lease would be designed... Not going
to make any money on this building... have improved facility.
Vanderhoef/Do you have leases for the hangar space?
O'Neil/We really need to have hard numbers...
Kubby/
O 'Neil/I would like to see a 15 year... Don has ran some numbers... 15 year payback...
Also be 20 X 60 office space with this building...
Vanderhoef/Office space... what are the possibilities of them not using all of the office
space?...
O'Neil/Doing some design... preliminary stages of the terminal building...
Mark Anderson/(Airport Commission member)... Existing shop building... shops
department and parts storage...
Norton/
Anderson/...two stories of office space...
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Thornberry/
Anderson/...different structural systems...
Thornberry/...just a metal building?...
Norton/Office are doesn't need to be as high...
Thornberry/... loft idea... I don't want it to look like a lean-to...
Lehman/Shall we go ahead and let them go ahead with the design work. Go for it.
O 'Neil/When we get to a point... bid... next step... coming back to council and say here
is the dollar amount.
Lehman/Also... agreement with Iowa City Flying Service.
O 'Neil/
Thornberry/...Mark... parts and then you got areas of fuel...
O'Neil/Fairly close to the terminal building... patio... use the picnic tables.
Norton/This will be compatible with the terminal building?...
O'Neil/Some of the things will fit fight in... close enough for them to go back and forth.
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Appointments 98-75 S2
Civil Service Commission: Susan Dulek
Historic Preservation: No applicants, readvertise
Design Review: Request comment from PCD Director Franklin
Lehman/...I would like some sort of report from staff as to what would be the results of
us not having a Design Review Committee...
Champion/...time consuming...
Vanderhoef/I would be in favor of looking at... I am real okay with what our staff brings
to us... Three people lef~ on the Committee.
Lehman/Need to know from staff...
Norton/Talk to Karin about it next time...
Lehman/Ask for a recommendation or a comment from Karin Franklin?
Norton/Yes...
Atkins/
Lehman/Certain things that require their review...
Norton/They review signs...
Kubby/
(All talking).
Lehman/Let's just get a comment. Also Eleanor... what impact on things like sidewalk
cafes?
Dilkes/Basically you need to know what responsibilities they have under the
ordinance...
Karr/Do you wish to defer #1 9a the announcement of vacancies and 20b the
readvertisement...
O'Donnell/Clear it up rather than readvertise.
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Karr/So tomorrow night defer that indefinitely or until July 7...
Vanderhoef/Let's do it indefinitely...
Karr/On 19a and 20b...
Lehman/Okay... Looking for Historic Preservation...
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Council Agenda/Council Time 98-75 S2
1. Kubby/I had two quick ones... To get a date to schedule discussion about Hickory
Hill West...
Atkins/
Kubby/The Parks and Rec Commission would talk about it and bring it back... Request
that at their next meeting they talk about it and then we talk about it after it... I
want us to move on it.
Atkins/(Can't hear).
Kubby/(Agenda # f(4)-David Nordstrom) Letter in our packet... President of
Handimart Stores... Some of the shoppers... tobacco... Mature looking...
Tobacco sting person... This weekend... bar owner... Downtown... got caught in
a sting... decoy was extremely mature looking... I think we should do the sting
for both tobacco and alcohol but we shouldn't use someone who looks like they
are 30 year olds... Make sure we are doing appropriate stinging.
Champion/I do have a problem with stings... Use some judgement when you asking
people for ID... Putting the blame on the person selling the product... Working...
young kids... don't have any perspective on it... unfair way to enforce the law...
bothers me that we would do that... Fine the people who are buying the alcohol...
work on the wrong end on this.
Thornberry/...inebriated... law says that you are still liable...
Lehman/
Kubby/We instituted... about the affidavit... tobacco education... Owner that gets
popped...
Karr/... employee affidavit...
Kubby/... understanding...
Champion/I was in Chicago... I got ID'd...employees have to ID everybody... Still
punishing the wrong end of the spectrum.
O'Donnell/...hold that store employee responsible...
(All talking).
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Lehman/
Kubby/Make sure that when we use decoys, that they look the appropriate age...
3. Norton/(Agenda #f(6)- PATV).Do we have anything scheduled with PATV?
Lehman/We need to schedule a meeting with PATV... A matter of when we can all get
together... 6/25 a forum... Mr. Norton representing the council, also Pat White,
Arlene Heck from Cable... Drew... discuss various cable issues... Dee is going to
represent his perspective as a council person... Relative to PATV... Informational
sort of discussion.
Norton/...very general...
Lehman/6:00, ICPL, Room A, 6/25...
O'Donnell/We need a definition on one term, almost criminal.
Lehman/We need to set a time...
Norton/
O 'Donnell/... expensive toy...
(All talking).
O'Donnell/Object to naked children.
Vanderhoef/We have got two dates, 7/9-10...
(All talking).
Lehman/
Lehman/Last year we had some forms... self evaluations...Marian... comparables...
Forms... my decision... go with comparables... I have no particular interest in
going through a form...
Norton/...don't overlook some area... I have a list.
Lehman/...if anybody else has a list of things they would like us to make... I will have
those lists replicated... Any areas...
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5. Lehman/Setting this meeting for PATV...
(All talking- schedule discussion).
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-76 SIDE 1
(All talking- schedule discussion).
Lehman/7/5 7:00 PM... need an interchange between the two of us to understand...
positions... Notify Renee to see if the 15th iS okay at 7:00 PM...
(All talking).
4. Vanderhoef/Quick request... Commission minutes... Acronyms... like HRDP... not
real sure...
5. Vanderhoef/(Kim Johnson memo) When Rick gives us the final construction cost
and I would just like to know what the bid was.
Norton/Bids are listed back in the back...
Atkins/
Vanderhoef/One statement that said we added a water line...
Adjourned: 10:30 PM
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of June 15,
1998
WS061598