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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-08-25 Transcription#3a page 1 ITEM NO. 3a MAYOR' S PROCLAMATION - American Cancer Society Day - September 19. Lehman/Item #3 is a Mayor's Proclamation. And Mayor Pro Tem Dean Thornberry will read this. Thornberry/I have the opportunity of reading these periodically. On a specific topic, since my wife is a cancer survivor of about a year now. "The City of Iowa City proclamation, whereas one in every two men and one in every three women will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetime, and whereas cancer kills more people each year than AIDS, accidents and homicides combined, and whereas research has provided the first decrease in cancer incidence and mortality in US history, and we realize that by accelerating a cure for cancer by a generation will save 100,000,000 lives worldwide, now therefore, Emie W. Lehman, Mayor of the City of Iowa City proclaims September 19, 1998 to be American Cancer Society Day in Iowa City and encourage participation in the march Planting the Seed to Conquer Cancer event to take place on September 19, 1998 in Des Moines. And the march Coming Together to Conquer Cancer even to take place on September 26, 1998 in Washington DC, signed in Iowa City this 251h day of August, 1998. Marian Karr/Here to accept is Amy Carson, Area 23 Program Director. Thomberry/Thank you. Lehman/Thank you, Dean. Amy Carson/Thank you very much for supporting this proclamation and the march in Des Moines. I would like to take a brief moment to describe the exciting growth and expansion of the American Cancer Society and how it will affect Johnson County. On September 1, the Iowa Division will join Minnesota, Wisconsin and South Dakota to form the Midwest Division. Because of newly shared resources and the restructuring of area boundaries, Johnson County now has both a full-time program director and a full-time development director based here in Iowa City. In the past, program directors would travel to Johnson County and, if time permitted, spend part of one day focusing on our residents. As the new program director, I'm committed to the expansion of services and programs in the Coralville, North Liberty, and Iowa City areas, with a special emphasis on tobacco control. Again, thank you for your time and for supporting the American Cancer Society. Kubby/You're welcome. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #3a page 2 Lehman/Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #4 page 3 ITEM NO. 4 CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED OR AMENDED. Lehman/(Reads agenda item #4). Norton/Move adoption. Karr/Mr. Mayor? Kubby/Second. Lehman/Moved by Norton, seconded by Kubby. Karr/Mr. Mayor? We have one change. We'd like to delete and defer until September 9th, Item e (1), the accepting the work on the Civic Center roof. Lehman/Does that require an amendment? Karr/No. Not if it's a friendly amendment, I believe. Lehman/As amended. Karr/Correct. Lehman/And we just did it. I'd like to point out one thing in the consent calendar. I'd also encourage folks to read the rest of it. But Item 7 is a grant received by the City of Iowa City for $120,000 from the Federal Home Loan Bank in Des Moines for funding, to assist low-income folks with housing. And I think that is a rather significant amount of money that we were fortunate enough to receive. Thornberry/It's for housing rehabilitation. Lehman/Right. Any other comments on the consent calendar? Norton/Well, I had one. I wanted to know, the Shamrock/Arbor Sewer up there, the culvert entrance, I know we had a lot of trouble with water up there. Have we had any experience yet with the new one? I suppose we haven't had enough rain to check it out. Kubby/I'll be we have. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #4 page 4 Norton/I wonder how the neighbors feel about what happened up there now. Kubby/I'm sure we have. Rick Fosse/We've had some good rains this summer, and so far it's working very well. We've not put the new grate on it yet, but we've modified the old grate by cutting the bottom off it, and that's helped significantly. And the hydraulics of the gabions are working nicely, very nicely. Norton/Because there was somewhere besides that, the grate, was there some work in the channel as well? Fosse/You bet. We worked a few hundred feet upstream and we took a great deal of sediments and rock out of the culvert itself to create additional capacity. Kubby/And the rock's staying up? Fosse/Yes. Yes. And during construction, we've not done a lot ofgabion projects before. Around that outside bank that was such a problem in the past, we decided to double that layer out there. So the project ended up costing us about $6,000 more than what the bid price was. But I think it's money well spent. Because when you're in there making the mess is the time to do it fight. Norton/Well, it's one of those places where there's, it's a stormwater drainage, and even though you can put it underground at a lot of expense and still some maintenance, you can leave it as an amenity, a creek in somebody's back yard and deal with it when it boils up. So trying to balance those two concerns, I thought was a kind of an interesting issue out there. Fosse/Right. Yep. It's a good compromise. Norton/People keep it clean now, too? Fosse/I hope so. Lehman/Further discussion? Roll call- (yes). Motion carded. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 page 5 ITEM NO. 5 PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA). Lehman/(Reads agenda item #5). If you wish to address Council, please sign in, and limit your comments to five minutes or less. Thank you. Rene Paine/Hi, my name is Rene Paine, and I'm the director of Public Access Television here in Iowa City. I just wanted to mention that we have moved out of the Iowa City Public Library and we're now located at 623 South Dubuque Street. We are open for business. Our first guidelines workshop will be September 3rd, that's a Thursday evening, and it's at 6:30pm at the new Access center. If you'd like to sign up for that, please call us. Our phone number is the same, it's 338-7035. And finally I just wanted to pass out to each Councilperson a copy of our latest annual report. Council/Thank you. Kubby/Some of us have our guidelines cards signed, right, Dee and Dee down here? You should have a ribbon-cutting ceremony down at Public Access. It'd be fun. Jim Clayton/I'm Jim Clayton of downtown Iowa City. I asked Marian to pass you each a copy of this small set of documents. Later tonight, you're going to consider an application for Malone's to establish a sidewalk caf6 and grilling area down on the public way on Washington Street. As a member of the Iowa Avenue Streetscape Committee, I supported changes on that avenue that would encourage revitalization of the business side of the block. Lehman/Jim? If you're going to speak to the sidewalk caf~, you'll have to wait till it comes up on the agenda. If you want to speak to something other than -- Clayton/No, I wasn't aware that there was public discussion, Mr. Mayor, on the sidewalk caf~o Lehman/Public discussion is allowed on any agenda item as it comes up at a formal meeting. Clayton/Oh, I misunderstood then. Lehman/But should you wish to discuss or present something not related to that permit, you may. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 page 6 Clayton/Well, it's, what I have to say is distinctly related to their desire to put a cafe on the public way, so I guess I'll have to try to come back. Lehman/Well, we'll try to get there as quickly as we can. Clayton/Well, I have to go to work, so I don't know whether I'll get back in time. Champion/I think we should (can't hear). Norton/That's too bad. Thornberry/I'm game. Champion/Right. Lehman/Well, you're out of order, but we'll do it. Clayton/Okay, well thank you. I appreciate it. I'll try to be brief. Karr/Mr. Mayor? If you're so inclined, you may take that out of order and discuss it now if you're so inclined. Champion/Oh, we could do that. Karr/It's up to you. Lehman/Is that the pleasure of Council? Kubby/Well, then you can hear all the discussion about it, so I'd say I'd move that whatever agenda item that is that we, number 24 be tackled now. Thornberry/I second that. Lehman/All in favor- (ayes). Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #24 page 7 ITEM NO. 24 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST THE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR TEMPORARY USE OF PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, AND G.A. MALONE'S, L.C. D/B/A/B.A. MALONE'S (NEW) Lehman/Now you're in order. Clayton/Even though I was on that committee to encourage this kind of development, tonight I'm here to request that you deny the Malone application. Malone's routinely advertises in the local newspapers drink specials, some of which I consider patently outrageous. For example, an ad that says you can come in and have "all you can drink" for $10. To sell a 96 ounce fishbowl with hard liquor and fruit juice in it and charge $10 for it. Their special "Big Beer" that they feature in their ads is a quart. Now, I drink beer, as a matter of fact, I make beer. And a quart of beer is a lot of beer, particularly because it sits and gets warm and doesn't taste very good after the first 20 minutes. So the tendency of a young person is probably to consume that beer rather quickly. And if I drink a quart of beer in less than an hour, I am legally over the limit to operate my motor vehicle. But they encourage that kind of consumption, and that, people have referred to it as binge drinking, drinking to excess, and I wonder if this is the kind of activity they envision for their sidewalk caf6? In April and May of this year, they sponsored this "Your Friends Could Win $1,000" contest. You came and did talent in the bar, and if you got the loudest round of applause, you were put into the finals. If you won the finals, you got $1,000. The way you win is to bring lots of friends so they can applaud real loud. And at the end of the night, the fraternity of sorority with the largest number of participants wins a keg of beer at 10:30 at night. Now what do you do with a keg of beer at 10:30 at night? It doesn't keep till tomorrow, you drink it. The idea is to put it away fast. Is this what they have in mind for their sidewalk caf6? These kind of promotional activities are best left inside the confines of their building. When I read the ads in the D./., and the last one that I put in the packet there was in the paper today, it would seem apparent that what we're being sold is alcohol at a low price. If they think that by putting a charcoal grill out on the sidewalk and having a refrigerator inside the restaurant that this gives them a kitchen that could operate conceivably till closing time, our sidewalk dining ordinance says that you can serve alcohol if you're serving food. Well, this would seem to be a way to go around that portion of the ordinance. I might be a little cynical on that, but I don't think that equals a restaurant. Now, we each have a different concept of what a sidewalk caf6 should be. You've all got one, I've got one. Mine says you've got to have a waitress or a waiter. You should get a real piece of china for a plate, and real silverware, not This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #24 page 8 plastic. You might get a napkin, you might have a tablecloth. You'd have a nice meal, maybe a glass of wine or a glass of beer, and then a stroll around downtown. An attraction like this, as I envision it, would truly bfing people to downtown. It would be a positive attraction. But based on their advertising that they consistently do, Malone's image would appear to fall short of this. It would appear to be lots of alcohol at a really low price and some kind of a sandwich or something as a facilitator to let them stay open. Now, Malone's, and I'm sure maybe a few of you on the Council would say that the Council and the community and Jim Clayton has no business telling them what they should or should not do in terms ofpfices they set or advertising they do. And you'd be fight. Except, they want to use the public sidewalk to do this. That's our sidewalk. The granting of this permit for a sidewalk caf~ is not a requirement of our City ordinance or City law. It's done at the pleasure of the Iowa City Council. You decide whether or not you want to have a sidewalk caf~ in front of that operation, and whether you're going to approve it or not. So I hope you'll take a different position on this. Send a message that our sidewalk cafd ordinance was enacted to encourage outdoor dining, not outdoor dfinking, and that we're not going to take a bar that is advertising in the fraternities and sorofities and in the newspaper where 75% of the people they advertise to are not of legal age to dfink. Pure and simple. When the housemother goes down into the lobby of the sorofity house, she shouldn't have to pick up these posters and the free coupons that put them in the bars at night so that her charges can go down there and drink so much that she's up with them all night long. It's just not fight, and I'd ask you to act on it. Thanks a lot. Lehman/Thank you, Jim. Do we have a motion so we can discuss this motion to approve? Thornberry/Motion to approve this ordinance I guess, for purposes of discussion. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry. O'Donnell/Second. Lehman/Seconded by O'Donnell. Now, discussion? Kubby/You know, last night we talked about this a little bit on number 11, no, it wasn't number 11, oh yes it is, number 11, where I was asking some questions, well, the permit agreement says that they have to refrain from any and all special sales on alcoholic beverages in the sidewalk caf~ area. And so my question was, how is that enforced? We're not going to have somebody posted there, it's going to be This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #24 page 9 self-enforcing unless there's a complaint. And so, I guess I'd like to have some discussion about, if there are other things that I'm not aware of, that they have to have a person who is specifically in charge of enforcing that, who's employed by Malone's and they're in charge of that caf~ so they know what the rules are. Or just how we can, if we should approve this, how that provision -- the provision in and of itself makes it seem like everything's going to be okay. But I don't think so. And so I guess I just want to talk about that part a little more. Lehman/Karen, I would think that it would be the responsibility of the applicant in this case, to instruct his employees not to honor specials on the sidewalk. And it would be our responsibility as the City to police that if we chose to do it. Kubby/Well, I understand it's a standard provision. And have we ever had any complaints about other sidewalk caf~s that, well that by definition means that they're using the public right-of-way, about this provision? Karr/We have had some complaints. And once it was clarified, we contacted the applicant. We pointed this provision out. It was clarified and it didn't present a problem. Kubby/Can permits be revoked for lack of enforcement of the provisions that are agreed upon? Eleanor Dilkes/That's sort of the nifty thing about a license agreement is that it's really at our pleasure, and we can revoke it quite easily if it's being violated. So if we had proof that that paragraph was being violated, we could revoke the license. Vanderhoef/What is to prevent a customer from going in and partaking in the two for one or whatever the drink special is, and carrying it out to the sidewalk? O'Donnell/What's to prevent that at any sidewalk caf6? Vanderhoef/Well, I thought at one time we had talked about that any liquor that was served had to be served at the table. You know, brought out by a waiter or waitress. Lehman/I'm sure we say that. But whether or not they adhere to that -- Thomberry/I don't think that's (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #24 page 10 Lehman/I don't think that's very easy to enforce. Thomberry/Eleanor, is that in the ordinance? Dilkes/I don't think so. I'd have to check. Norton/Well, paragraph 11 certainly implies that if what Dee says is correct that you can certainly get around it easily. Dilkes/I think the concern that was expressed at the time was that if you were waiting for a table outside and wished to wait inside while you were waiting, and were served inside, that you would be allowed to bring it out and have it with your dinner. It was, you know, again, within reason, should we see that that's being violated, then we certainly would need to know about that. But I think that was part of the explanation that was used. Vanderhoef/Okay. Norton/Well, if what Jim was suggesting, in other words, it strikes me as very difficult to legislate these things ahead of time, other than by the kinds of conditions we have and in the ordinance. So then you're going to have to wait until something happens to blow the whistle. Now, I find that kind of hard to guess all those cases in advance and try to, but we're certainly going to have to check it out every now and then, right? Karr/ If you recall, when we first started to do this, it was the request of the Council to look at ways to make sidewalk caf&s more amenable to expand them in the downtown area. And one concern we had from a number of our restaurant owners was the ability to serve the full menu. And we came back to Council and discussed that with you. And that was the direction we were given at the time. To the best of my knowledge, we have not had a problem with that. True, it is on an enforcement basis. We have people who do call us with questions, or people who do call with concerns. And we readily call the establishment. Certainly in the downtown area there is more exposure both to individuals walking by as well as police patrols. Kubby/I think the concem is probably going to be later at night, rather than dinnertime until dark. Dilkes/Well, if they have a liquor license, they can only, the caf6 can only operate This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #24 page 11 between 7:00 am and 10:00 pm. Kubby/Okay, they have to stop at 10:00. Dilkes/That's correct. Norton/Even if they have all the kitchen there, right? Lehman/What you're saying is they can serve food only until 10:00. Kubby/No, they can have the caf6. Dilkes/They, the sidewalk caf6 can only operate until 10:00 pm. Lehman/It has to be off the sidewalk at 10:00. Dilkes/It's shut down at 10:00 if they have a liquor license. Karr/That's correct. Lehman/Oh, okay. Karr/That's correct. Lehman/So the grill would not serve any function outside? Dilkes/The ordinance says sidewalk caf6s shall be set up, operating restored to their normal condition each day only between the hours of 7:00 am and 10:00 pm if you have a liquor license. It's pretty clear. Kubby/And you can be -- Norton/ If you have a liquor license. Kubby/Well, again, there is this balance here. And in trying to enhance the atmosphere downtown, there is some risk taking involved. And I guess I'm prepared to okay this with a very strong statement to Malone's about what number 11 means. And to anyone who has a permit, maybe even a reminder to everyone who currently has a permit that has been okayed administratively, or through the consent calendar because it was a renewal, just as a reminder. Because a lot more people This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #24 page 12 are back in town, and to remind, to train their employees, to let people know right when they sit down that if you want a bar special that this isn't the place you want to sit. Vanderhoef/I don't disagree with that. I was just going to ask Marlan if, on the renewals, don' 't they get a new copy of it? Karr/Each time this comes up on a yearly basis, they must execute a new lease agreement. Vanderhoef/And they get a copy? Karr/It comes before you. They sign, and are notafized each year. Lehman/I think it's part of the consent calendar when it comes back. Karr/Renewals are part of the consent calendar. A new one is a separate consideration. Vanderhoef/I'm sure. But when they apply, they get a copy of the rules. Karr/They must sign and execute another copy, yes. Vanderhoef/That's what I -- so they get it. O'donnell/They're aware of the rules. Vanderhoef/So they get reminded. Norton/I think you've got to try it. And if they abuse the privilege is what it is, because we were really trying to do what you say, to open up the thing a little bit and we were accused of having too many regulations and rules, we're trying to be more relaxed. If somebody abuses that, then we're going to have to go back to the drawing board. That's for sure. Kubby/Well, maybe Jim, you and I should go for dinner once in a while, and order something. Lehman/Does anyone have a problem with a grill on the sidewalk? O'Donnell/I don't. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #24 page 13 Norton/No. O'Donnell/Gyros in the Ped Mall. Kubby/Well, I brought up '- Thornberry/ We talked about that last night. And came to the conclusion, I believe, that it would be acceptable, and given the fact that it's out further and the public walks between the building and where the grilling is taking place and it's up to -- Vanderhoef/No, they don't. Dilkes/They do not. Vanderhoef/It's away from the building. Norton/It's away from the bulding, yeah. Thomberry/Oh, yeah, it's away from the building. But it's still up to the establishment to maintain positive traffic flow through there. Now if they start having karaoke outside, and some of the thigns that potentially could happen, I think at that time we could notify them and say this is not acceptable. But until they prove that they're creating a hazard, I think that we should honor the outside. Lehman/Well, I think this si the only place there'll be a grill on the sidewalk. The Ped Mall is not on the sidewalk, it is on the mall itself. This would be the only place - Karr/This is the only sidwalk caf6 that will have a cooking element in it. Lehman/On the portion of that -- Karr/That's correct. Champion/So far. Kubby/I'm sorry? Champion/So far. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #24 page 14 Thornberry/Where's the grill? Kubby/And the concern wasn't so much traffic, it was the possiblity of smoke, a fire getting too smoky and causing some problems for a passer-by, or for patrons, and you know, just health issues and smoke. Thornberry/Well we could have a cart burn up on the Ped Mall, you know, too. But -- O'Donnell/The same smoke in the Ped Mall. I mean, the same problem, and we allow that (can't hear). Vanderhoef/I'm going to think positive about this and go forward with it. Kubby/Well, can we direct staff to contact current permit holders of sidewalk caf~s and to give special attention to this issue when Malone's receives theirs, just as a, as a preventative, to just let them know that we're concerned about this issue, that we expect all of the provisions to be enforced by them, but this one is of particular interest to us because there is a new semester beginnign and lots of new people are in town and they're getting their businesses back up and runnig to full speed. I'd like us to direct staff to do that. Norton/We should do it. Dilkes/There is a provision in there that I think, Dee, you were asking this, that says that sidewalk caf6s serving alcoholic beverages must have an employee monitoring the area at all times. Vanderhoef/Thank you. Champion/You know, I don't think we ought to parents to bar owners who have outdoor caf6s. I don"t see any reason to notify them. They obviously have a copy of the ordinance and should know that. Karr/We still -- Vanderhoef/They do it annually, I think. Karr/We still, also, for all of our, we have the open container requirement here in the City, we also have the state law requireing that all liquor must be sold and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #24 page 15 consumed in a licensed area, so there are several different violations in addition to this that they would be subject to, should they not adhere to the regulations. Kubby/But I think the bar special thing is especially important for this community because it's the beginning of a new semester. There's a lot of new advertising so people are trying to get folks that are new to town and coming back to town to establish their habits. And you can do that through this kind of advertising. But it's an especially important thing to highlight our concerns about it. And I don't think it's a bad thing to remind people about what their obligations are. It's not like we have 200 of these. It would not take very much energy to express our concerns. Norton/I would agree with that. Lehman/I think that we have indicated pretty strongly our concern about this. I think it's time for roll call. I will not support this personally, because I do not believe that grills belong on sidewalks where people walk, but roll call- (yes; Lehman, no). Motion carried. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 page 16 ITEM NO. 5 (continued). Lehman/Any further discussion of item #5, items not on the agenda? Kubby/Thank you, Jim. Steven Kanner/Hello, my name's Steven Kanner, and I live at 1111 East Burlington. I just wanted to promote an event that's coming up this Saturday, called Abilities Awareness Day, and it's going to be from 6:00 to 9:00, supported in part by the City of Iowa City and the Downtown Business Association. And the purpose is, it's a celebration ofpeople's abilities and accomplishment. And it's being organized like it has been for the past five years by Bob Finch. A lot of you might know him, he's on the Ped Mall a lot. A pretty amazing individual, he puts a lot of energy into this. There's going to be some good music, Too Much Yang, and a couple other bands. There'll be some speakers. There'll be a chance for people to tell their stories, they can talk about stories of accomplishment and achievement and ability, and it's a thing to focus on the positive and hope everyone can make it. And again, I want to thank the City for supporting something like this. I think it's a very nice event. Norton/What's the date again, Steve? Kanner/What's that? Norton/What's the date again, Steve? Kanner/It's this Saturday, the 291h, at 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm, and it's going to be on the Ped Mall in front of the Holiday Inn on the stage that's there. So, come on down. Council/Thank you. Shannon Nelson/Hi, my name is Shannon Nelson. I 'm a resident of Iowa City. I have a lot of questions and concerns about the sharp-shooting and the Deer Management plan. I realize that you may not be able to answer all of my questions fight now. But I would like to request a copy of answers to my questions, if that's possible. My first question is how much money is the City going to set aside to carry out the Deer Management Plan? Kubby/We set aside $15,000? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 Steve Atkins/It's approximately that. Nelson/$15,0007 Okay. Atkins/Yes. Thornberry/It's all general funds. page 17 And where is that money coming from? Is it taxpayer money? Nelson/Okay. And my second question was how did the City determine that we had a deer problem and that killing deer was what the citizens wanted? Were there any documentations from the City people? Lehman/Excuse me just a moment. Steve, are we, our Deer Committee, the committee that came up recommendations will be meeting again this fall, I believe, is that not correct? Atkins/Not that I know of, Emie. Pretty well have the program in order. Lehman/Isn't there going to be a meeting as to the areas that are going to be used and the times and whatever? Atkins/Well that, yes, logistical issues. Lehman/Will that be, will that be a committee meeting, or will that be __9 Atkins/Not that I know of, Ernie. Lehman/Okay, I'm sorry. I was thinking that we might have an easier way of getting your answers. Kubby/Well I think there's a -~ Dilkes/Actually-- Kubby/I'm sorry, go ahead. Dilkes/I think there is a meeting of that committee contemplated prior to putting the ordinance into final form, because there's going to be a Deer Management Ordinance that incorporates everything you've basically already decided in some more detail. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 page 18 Norton/But somebody can provide her with a copy of the Deer Management Committee Report that we got and the reference to the big background documents. Lehman/I think it would answer a lot of your questions. And if in fact that committee is meeting again, I don't think you could have any question that they would not be able to help you with. Nelson/Okay. Kubby/And the important -- Atkins/Shannon, if you leave your name and address, I'll just mail you a copy of that Plan that can get you up to speed on what they have done. Thornberry/And then let her know specifically what the date of the Deer Management Committee meeting is. Kubby/The important part of it is that the plan doesn't just talk about killing deer. It talks about, I can't remember if there are like 20 or 22 points about different things we can do about education people, especially who are beginning to do landscaping, or having to replant landscaping, about deer-resistant varieties that are native and would work well in this area, and trying to get with the Humane Society, the National one to be part of their study for birth control for does, and there's a whole bunch of things like that as well as the deer kill, which is what we call it, because that's what it is. Nelson/Okay. Since I have become aware of the issue, I have been talking to a lot of people about it. And it's my, generally what I've gotten from the public is that this is not something that the citizens want. And I'm not surprised that most people, a lot of people are not aware that this is going to happen. So I was just curious to see what the City, what the City ever did in getting the public feedback and if they sent out surveys or anything to know that this is what the public wanted and supported. Thornberry/This was not our idea. Norton/They had a lot of (can't understand). Thornberry/This came from the people that said you've got to do something for us here, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 page 19 they're eating us out of house and home. Nelson/And do you have documentation of that? Thomberry/We do. Lehman/Actually, if you'll go back, during the time the Deer Committee met, you will find articles in newspapers beaucoup. This was something that even got to the State Legislature, and there was no secrets anywhere about this. We appointed a committee that was made up of a very, very wide variety of folks, some who would love to hunt deer, others who did not want to do anything. They came to a very painstaking conclusion that I'm sure a lot of them weren't real happy with. I don't think anybody wants to go out and kill deer. It's a problem that is presented in the community. I think it's recognized by most of the people in the community, and if you do some checking, I think you'll find that to be true. But if you will read the material that we send you regarding that committee, how they met, what the discussions were, and their conclusions, I think you'll understand where they came to that conclusion. Nelson/Okay. Kubby/But to answer your question directly, we did not survey the community. We did have people come to us and we had this committee but we didn't say this is the conclusion of the committee, what do you think. Thornberry/No, we did not do that. Nelson/Okay. Vanderhoef/And the possibility for the community to respond, when the ordinance comes up will be another time. And just like you are here, during open public time, it's open to anyone else who wishes to come and talk about it. Nelson/And when is that going to be held? Vanderhoef/Pardon me? Nelson/When is the ordinance going to come up? Vanderhoef/I'm not sure. Do you have any idea yet, Eleanor? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 page 20 Dilkes/Probably within the next few months. Nelson/Okay. Dilkes/I mean, I think in the next couple. Nelson/Okay. Basically, I just want to say that as a taxpayer and a citizen, I don't want to support killing the deer. I think the money could be spent in a lot of other ways. I think we should learn to co-exist with the deer and try other options before we choose such a plan. Thank you. Vanderhoef/Thanks. Lehman/Thank you. Kubby/Thanks for coming down. Can we somehow track this date and get back to Shannon to let her know --? Atkins/If she leaves her name and address, we'll make sure she knows. We'll send her a packet of information. I assume it's written up there? Nelson/Yes. Atkins/Okay. We'll take care of it. Chad Gonnerman/Good evening. My name is Chad Gonnerman, and I'm here for the same reason that this young lady is here, addressing the Deer Management Plan. And in particular, my, what I would like to ask about is about the deer carcasses. From what, my understanding is that these carcasses will be given to local food banks, and the field dressed deer are to be prepared by a meat locker in Solon, or Solon, or Solon. And as a concemed citizen, I would like to know who is going to handle the field dressing of the deer? Vanderhoef/The locker plant people. Gonnerman/But it is my understanding that they're taking an un-field dressed deer? So then they're going to handle the dressing of the deer? Vanderhoef/My understanding was that they would be there in the field. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 page 21 Gonnerman/Oh, okay. Well, and the reason that I ask that because, it is my understanding from communicating with a biologist and some hunters that a deer must be bled approximately 30 seconds after being killed, or the carcass begins to go bad. And in addition, as a concerned citizen, how will these bodies be transported, the 30 minutes or so to Solon. By these meat locker, I wonder if there's any details on that? Lehman/I'm sure that's probably right. Vanderhoef/Yeah. Gonnerman/Okay. And again, I'm concemed about the healthiness of the carcass. And my final question here is, are the heads of the deer going to be sent to Ames for examination of the deer brains? And the reason, if you wonder why I'm asking this, recently I've seen in newspapers that there's a disease known as the Chronic Wasting Disease which is similar to the Mad Cow Disease, and this has been turning up in wild deer as well as captive deer in the states of Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota and Nebraska. Of course South Dakota and Nebraska, being our immediate neighbors to the west, and it is my understanding that this disease may very well be spread to humans if this tainted meat is eaten and the result is 100% fatality. So, if the deer goes bad because of inappropriate field dressing or due to unhealthy transportation, or because of this Wasting Disease, or any other reason for that matter, I would to know who is going to be liable for the people who may get sick, or even die because of this bad, potentially bad meat. Will it be the City, the State, the USDA? And I know that might be kind of a complex question. Lehman/I don't think we can answer that question. But I can tell you that I don't think there will be any process that is not done under the supervision of the County Health Department. Locker plants are regulated by the Department of Agriculture. Gonnerman/Right. Lehman/I can't imagine that there will be, if we can't, if that can't be processed in a safe fashion, I'm sure that meat will not be processed. But I don't see any problem whatsoever. Gonnerman/Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 page 22 Lehman/With what you're talking about. I'm sure if Ames wishes to examine those deer and makes a request, that we would certainly comply. Gonnerman/Okay. Well, the reason I ask, as far as I know, Ames is the only place that is doing this testing in the State of Iowa. And the final reason why I bring this up is because as a citizen, I am concerned and would even object to the City taking such a risk with human life, and the taxpayers' money. And actually, I would not, I would like a written copy of these answers to the questions I have asked this evening ifthat's possible. Lehman/I think we can give you the same information that we're giving Shannon. Gonnerman/Okay. Thomberry/I have a question for you. You mentioned that unless a deer is bled within 30 seconds after shooting -- Gonnerman/Right. Thornberry/You have, I'm sure you have plenty of facts on that, and it takes a lot longer, usually, than 30 seconds to get to a kill. I'm not a large animal hunter. I'm a pheasant, duck and stuff like that, but not a large animal, but I know that I've got friends that hunt elk and deer and so on. And it takes them a lot longer than 30 seconds to get to the carcass before it's even -- Gonnerman/Right, right. Thomberry/So you're saying that, you're not saying that the meat is bad if it's not bled within 30 seconds. That's not what you're saying. Gonnerman/It starts deteriorating. Thomberry/So does beer. You know, beer deteriorates the second, wait a minute, beer deteriorates from the point that it's made. And the three worst enemies of beer are salt, age, and light. And the older the beer gets, you know, it will deteriorate. But it doesn't really hurt you. You know? You've seen these ads that you've got bad beer and all this, bad beer alert and stuff. But I don't think that 30 seconds is the critical, critical time for bleeding a large animal. But I may be wrong. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #5 O'Donnell/Obviously, you never want to eat a deer that's been drinking beer. Thomberry/Old beer. O'Donnell/Thank you. Gonnerman/Well, the reason I ask -- Lehman/ I think this will be -- Kubby/It's a serious healthy concem. O'Donnell/It is a health concern. Thornberry/I'm not going to leave it there for several days and take it up there. That's not the point. But I don't think 30 seconds is that critical. Kubby/But I think it's important for us to ask these kinds of health issues, the details of how we're going to do this safely, and who's liable. I think those are legitimate questions, and I appreciate them. Norton/I think some of those are issues that the Committee may have to discuss this fall as they get closer to the date to start this process. Lehman/Right. And I think those are good questions for the, and we'll let you know when that meeting is for that Committee. But those are good questions for that Committee to address. Gonnerman/Okay, thank you very much. Champion/Thank you. Lehman/Thank you. Thornberry/Shoot and run. Lehman/Other public discussion? Michaelanne Widness/My name is Michaelanne Widness. I live at 629 Melrose Avenue. Joe Fowler was kind enough to send me a copy of the memo that he This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 page 23 #5 page 24 prepared about the transportation changes, the route changes. And I have two very brief comments about a couple of things in that memo. The first had to do with his suggestion that adding a Westside Shuttle would probably result in low ridership. I think probably initially this would be the case. And that's because, since there's never been convenient bus, a convenient bus service to West High, parents of course have made other arrangements. And I think it would probably be some time before you could expect to see large numbers of kids tiding these buses. But I will say that I took my ninth graders on the Plaen View Monday morning, and at the stop on the comer of Melrose and Westwinds, a dozen kids got off and went to West High. I was actually sort of surprised because of course the bus doesn't get much press and I think if we had a service that was actually being promoted, we could expect to see much larger numbers than that. My other comment had to do with his, the cost figure of $19,000 to mn the Eastside shuttles. I have said this before, but I think it bears repeating. There are very real costs to this community from either requiring parents to drive their kids to West High or having parents turn over keys to cars to 17, 16, 15, and even 14 year old kids. I would hope that you'd keep these other costs. They're certainly more difficult to pinpoint than the cost of buying buses or paying drivers. But they're costs nonetheless, and I hope that you would keep those in mind when you make your considerations. Thank you. Lehman/Thankyou. Champion/I think we support this. I mean, the idea of a bus going in some kind of a loop that would go to Noahwest Junior High, and West High. I'm sure it would be very busy after awhile. A lot of kids go to those two schools. Kubby/We directed staff, part of what we directed staff to do was to talk with Coralville with cooperating with a Westside loop. So, we would like to explore moving ahead with that and seeing how it could be done, what it would cost, where it would go, and then, I don't know, get a final okay. Joel Wilcox/Is it appropriate to speak to item 6b? Lehman/When it comes up. Okay? Any other discussion on non-agenda items? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 25 ITEM NO. 6b Public hearing on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 9.27 acres from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to Sensitive Areas Overlay/Medium Density Residential (OSA-8) to allow a 72-unit residential development on property located on the south side of Taft Speedway west of Dubuque Street. (REZ98-0009) Lehman/(Reads agenda item #6b). P.h. is open. John Hayek/Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, my name is John Hayek. I represent Riverview Place Partners, the developer of this 72-unit project. The Council has already received a considerable amount of information about this project form us and from your staff and from the minutes of the P/Z Commission. So I will not make my comments real long. But I do want to talk about this application in some, to some degree. Riverview Place Partners has been working on this project since about September of last year. It's been a very difficult project for a number of reasons. One of the first challenges they faced, and one of the difficulties about it, is finding an appropriate site to put 72 units of low- and CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-96, SIDE B Hayek/in Iowa City. Larry Mazzotta and people working with him have been looking for a long time. They've had a great deal of difficulty finding an appropriate site. They think they have an appropriate site, and that of course is the site that we have asked for the rezoning of in this pending application. Many sites that have been looked at are simply too expensive, otherwise not appropriate. The fact of the matter is there are very few build-able, suitable sites in Iowa City available for this kind of project. Larry Mazzotta is still looking, because we certainly recognize, are not eager to come before this City Council and ask you to vote against or vote contrary to the recommendations of your own staff and your own P/Z Commission. We recognize that's a very difficult thing for anybody to do, and we would prefer not to put you in that position. We would prefer to find a site that would make everyone happy, that would work for the project, that would allow Iowa City to have the units of housing that Iowa City wants, and we want to build for them. And so, we're still looking. And if we find such a site, we of course will let you know, and let your staff know. But the fact of the matter is that so far, and as of now, no alternative site has been found. And it has been a long and difficult search indeed. A second challenge to a project of this sort is obtaining the funding. It's not an easy task to obtain financing and funding for, I This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 26 guess, I'm told, in excess of $6,000,000 project. The funding for this project is both public and private. Finding that funding, finding that financing is difficult. But Mr. Mazzotta and his associates have found that funding, in part because of help from the City and City Council and the Iowa City Housing and Community Development Commission. That has been a very real challenge and one which this developer has successfully met. Another challenge, and of course related to the first challenge, is obtaining City approval. And that's what we're here to talk about tonight. This in a way has been one of the, probably the most difficult challenge of all. While initially hospitable, City Planning staff has been reluctant to recommend and indeed has recommended against this rezoning of the site that we're asking you to rezone because of concerns primarily about flooding risks. I'm going to talk about those risks in just a minute. In the meetings with P/Z, a number of concerns were raised. And they ranged form worries about the Taft Speedway intersection to concerns about a past prior owner filling of the site along Taft Speedway, or between Taft Speedway and the Iowa River. Now, I believe I'm accurate in reporting that City staff reported to P/Z that those prior filling activities had been taken care of in terms of being to the satisfaction of the DNR and the Corps of Engineers and so forth, but those were still concerns raised by P/Z, or some members, some of the Commissioners on P/Z. We can't of course do anything about what was done in the past to the site. We believe the site is perfectly legally appropriate to build on. If allowed, we will build this project on the site in compliance with all applicable Federal, State, and City regulations. So that we think that we, we should not be blamed for the fact that prior activities took place on that site. The thing I primarily want to address, however, members of the Council, is the flooding concern. As indicated, we are required by your ordinances to build this project at the 100-year floodplain elevation level. To deal with the City's concern about flooding of the access to Riverview Place, the developer is willing to bear what it understands to be the cost of elevating Taft Speedway from its entrance, in other words, the entrance to our project, over to Dubuque Street. Larry Mazzotta's had discussions with Public Works officials about that. We think we know what that approximate cost is, and we're prepared to tender that money, or enter into a legally binding agreement at the appropriate time with the City, providing for that cost element. And is certainly prepared to, any such agreement of course would have to be subject to the approval of your City Attomey, and your City Manager and other staff members. But we're prepared basically, in other words, to elevate Taft Speedway, or pay the cost of elevating Taft Speedway so that from our site over to Dubuque Street, it's at the appropriate elevation. Now whether the appropriate elevation, by the way, is the 100-year floodplain elevation, or the Dubuque Street elevation, I'm really not sure, because I'm not sure there's any real benefit in elevating Taft This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 27 Speedway any higher than Dubuque Street is. But at any rate, based upon what we understand those approximate costs are, we're prepared to offer to do that. But, that of course doesn't resolve all of the concerns that have been brought forth, because the City itself, as I understand it, has made the decision that the Dubuque Street elevation will not be at, or is not at, or was not built to the 100-year flood elevation. So, in a sense, Dubuque Street itself, one of the most, if not the most major arterial entrances to Iowa City is not at the 100-year floodplain elevation. Now, it's my recollection and belief that only in 1993 was Dubuque Street ever flooded so that traffic both from the north going south and from the south going noah were blocked. And of course in 1993, I think Dubuque Street just plain stopped for some period of weeks, if not months. But I would argue to you, ladies and gentlemen, that 1993 is not the appropriate benchmark that we should use in assessing that risk. The 1993 events were indeed truly extraordinary events. I've read some data indicating that at least throughout the Midwest, the 1993 events which occurred again, not just in Iowa City but throughout the Midwest were on the order of a 200- to 300-year frequency kind of event, not a 100-year frequency type of event. My recollection is that other than 1993, Dubuque Street southbound from Taft Speedway has never been flooded. At least it's never been flooded and stopped from my recollection, and my recollection goes back a long way. But it's also fairly faulty, and I would invite you to ask of your own Public Works people or others who would be in a better position than I to tell you about that. But I think the, I think it to be true that other than 1993, at least from about 1965 to 1970 on, Dubuque Street would have provided access to this site during any of the flooding events, any of the summers that occurred. So, What we would argue is that it's not, it's not appropriate to block or refuse development of this site because of concem about that flooding, if we can get access over to Dubuque Street at that elevation. And that the position taken by the city staff, with all due respect, because they're very capable and fine people, but in this instance, we believe they're just altogether too timid to say we aren't going to build this project, we're not going to have the $6,000,000 addition to Iowa City, we're not going to have this housing that the Iowa City Housing and Community Development Commission ranked, I think, third or fourth of maybe 20 or 25 applications, because of the remote possibility, remote possibly that for some relatively short period of time there may be a problem with access. Another point I would make before closing is that if there are problems with access to this site, fortunately because of the existence of the Coralville Reservoir and Dam, they are, they can be anticipated. I remember even in 1993, and I'm sure most if not all of you do, too, that we all speculated for, I think for weeks, and maybe it was longer than weeks, about whether and when the water would go over the spillway at the Coralville Reservoir. And indeed in 1993, that was the first time since that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 28 spillway had been built, to my knowledge, it had ever been topped. So, if there are problems, I would argue that we should have plenty of notice to take care of those problems. But I would urge you to approve this application at the appropriate time. Again, we're continuing to look for sites. We don't like to put you in this position, we don't like to be in this position. If we can find something, we'll do it. But we sure haven't found it so far. And as I say, Mr. Mazzotta and his people have been looking since September and doing other things on this project since September, not just looking for sites. But we would urge you to vote approval at your September meeting. Thank you. Champion/John, can I ask you a question? Hayek/Yes, ma'am. Champion/I think the problem of access is a major problem. I think it's interesting, you're right, that the flooding of Dubuque Street is anticipated, we know it's going to flood, because of the Dam. Maybe you'd like to address publicly what your intention would be if Dubuque Street would be flooded, if you would foresee that it's going to be flooded. Hayek/Well, I think that if, if the owner, and I would say this of any owner, because I know that, you know, I could say that I think my client, Riverview Place Partners would do x, y, and z. And then you could say well, and appropriately, well, yeah, but your client may not be the owner of this project ten years, 15 years, 20 years from now. And that's certainly possible. But I think any responsible owner of a project of this sort is going to have to make arrangements in the event of a situation of the sort you're asking about, Ms. Champion. To place the residents elsewhere, to provide access, you know, to get the people out that want to get out. If it looks like it's really going to be socked in, e.g., 1993, that probably means moving everyone out. Where, I don't know. How, well I'm sure they'd be moved out by vehicle or whatever. And of course, it's also, you know, and there may be people who would choose to stay. I don't know. It would depend on the duration. Another point I would make, ladies and gentlemen, is no one is going to force anyone to live in this project. I mean, the people that are going to live there are going to do so on their own volition. We're talking about competent, hopefully intelligent, normal, Iowa Citians. Now, there may be people who won't appreciate the fact that there could be flooding. And I recognize that could happen. People could move here and not know about it or what have you. But I think, Ms. Champion, that anybody that owns that project is going to have to take care of the people. I mean, if you don't take care of your people, you're going to get sued, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 29 you're going to have people breaking leases, you're going to have trouble renting to other people, you've got to take care of your customers, just like any other business person would. Champion/As a lawyer, is there any legal way to put a covenant into a deed or that would insure that anticipation of flooding would provide an opportunity for those people to get out of there? Hayek/You certainly, I mean, I think it could be provided. Whether it would be a covenant or a contract or -- Champion/Well I don't even know what that word means, it was the only one that came to my mind. Hayek/I think that if that is a concern of the City Council's, and I can understand that it would be, that is something that I would suggest, out of respect, that you ask your City Attorney to advise you about, and whether it be a covenant or whether it would be a contract of whether it would be some kind of a special agreement, I don't know. And Ms. Dilkes could probably advise you better than I. Dilkes/I think our thinking is that if after this discussion your inclination is to approve the rezoning with conditions, you have to have your meeting with P/Z, but then I think we'd have to continue the p.h. and then I think we'd have to work on some kind of conditional zoning agreement and you know. Hayek/But you know, I have every confidence that Ms. Dilkes could work out something very viable. Norton/There's two points I want to ask about. First is, I read the minutes and listen to some of the discussion in P/Z, and read the staff reports. The concerns seem to be not only about the emergency access, but just about the basic density. That is, we're going to 72 units on a relatively small site, a pretty good-sized structure in a pretty crucial position, visa vis that entrance to the City, and I think there's, in my mind, that number 72 seems just heavy-duty for that location. Hayek/Dee, I can't, I mean I can't prove one way or the other. In other words, I really can't speak, I can't demonstrate, I think to you, that 72 is too many or is not too many or whatever. That's a judgment that obviously you as a Council member and others have to make. I would suggest that the site, for example, that we're asking the rezoning of is one that really I would argue is not appropriate for This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 30 single-family housing. Indeed, it's sat vacant for a long time, and never been developed. And I think the cost of developing that site alone would make it prohibitively expensive for someone to put one single family house on it. So it's, I would argue that some type of multi-family use is going to be, is going to develop at some point on that site. Norton/Okay. Hayek/Now whether 72 units is too many or too little, I don't know. I mean, we think it's consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. We think it's consistent with the development across the way. We think it's consistent with the development along Dubuque Street. And one can argue that none of that development should have taken place and it's all too dense. You know, I can't, there are apaaments on Dubuque, you know, you'll have to make obviously your own issue, I know you will, your own decision. Norton/One other question. Have you explored at all with the staff, and I haven't asked them about this, the orientation of Taft so that the intersection of Taft with Dubuque, even if you were to raise Taft Speedway, at the intersection with Dubuque, were a little bit noah, would you gain some elevation that way? Hayek/I don't know. I don't know. Norton/I thought you might gain enough to stay out of the mud. Franklin (??)/To the noah. Norton/Oh, to move the entrance further north would make it even lower? Franklin/Yes. Hayek/I defer -- Franklin/(Can't hear). Hayek/So apparently that's the answer, Dee. Norton/Experience. Lehman/John, you said this was unassisted elderly housing? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page31 Hayek/That's my understanding. It's low- and moderate-income, unassisted elderly housing. In other words, we're talking about folks who are by definition able to care for themselves. Now that's for the most part. And obviously all, anybody who's elderly, including all of us, are capable of becoming in need of assistance at any time. And so clearly, our residents there, there will be people who will need assistance from time to time. But it is not designed as a nursing home. It is not designed to provide the kind of care that you typically associate with a care facility. It is for folks who want to live in that kind of setting who are able to take care of themselves, but who need the amenities that are going to be provided, the dining, and so forth. There are going to be staff people there, not medical staff and all that, but people who will help make it the kind of place that an elderly family, couple, individual, can live on his or her own. And it's, it's designed so that low-income folks and moderate-income folks can live there and their rents essentially are subsidized, along with people who, others. Any income levels, as I understand it. Vanderhoef/So John, are you talking about raising the level of the building site as well as the road? Hayek/I think we're required, yes, I think we're required to do that by -- Champion/Right. Hayek/Eleanor, help me, but I think it's your own zoning code that requires it. Kubby/Floodplain ordinance. Vanderhoef/The floodplain ordinance. Hayek/We're required to do that. We're required, now I know one of the concems expressed at, by somebody on P/Z was well, you're going to be building through prior fill, and that's going to present challenges. And that is going to present challenges. But, the plans have to be signed off on by qualified engineers, and architects. We're going to have to deal with that. And we will have to build the elevations of the building to meet what, the 100-year flood standard, I believe. Dilkes/I believe that's fight. Vanderhoef/Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 32 Hayek/So I think the concem about flooding -- Dilkes/One foot above. Hayek/It's one foot above? So we have to be one foot above the 100-year level. I think the concern, as I say, as I've understood it from both staff and Commission is the access. Not the project itself, but the access to it. Vanderhoef/And would the access be any better located if you went west and went to No Name Road and then up? Hayek/I don't think so, and I defer to the people who live there, and I defer to Rick Fosse, City Engineer and others, but I think, I think it gets worse the further west you go. And the other problem with that is that, I mean, if we had to go west and if we had to elevate -- Norton/The driveway. Hayek/Taft Speedway all the way along there, that the cost, at least from out standpoint would be prohibitive. Now whether the City wants to do that at some point, and either pay for that out of tax revenues or assess, or whatever, that's of course your decision. I don't think Dee, going west is the answer. I think we pretty much have to go east to Dubuque Street, in its present configuration, unless and until at some point the City decides to elevate Dubuque Street. Vanderhoef/I wanted to be sure that that was on for the citizens to hear. Hayek/Sure. Vanderhoef/Because that is a comment that's being made in the community, well if you do this then it would work. And I wanted -- Hayek/You mean going west? Yeah. Vanderhoef/Yeah. Hayek/And again, Rick is in a much better position than I am to address that, but I think it doesn't get any better, I think it gets worse going west. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 33 Vanderhoef/I agree. I just wanted to for public knowledge. Hayek/In fact, I think, and I believe the City itself elevated Taft Speedway in the vicinity of the easterly portion of it near Dubuque Street about six, seven, eight years ago, somewhat, because of the flooding problems with Taft, and got the roadbed, so the roadbed now has already been elevated some. But obviously not to the Dubuque Street level, I believe. Kubby/I have one last question. Hayek/Yes, Karen? Kubby/If there were a majority of Council members who wanted to go ahead with this, do you think your client would be open to a conditional zoning agreement that would also include some environmental issues like a limited use ofpesticides, which probably shouldn't be used around the elderly anyway, because it would go directly to the river, that's the stormwater management plan is for to go to directly to the river, as well as erosion control and wetland preservation. Hayek/Well, I think so, but I, without knowing specifically what they are, I can't promise you that. Kubby/I guess open to discussing that is what I mean. Hayek/It's certainly open to discussion, and we after all have already been working a lot with the staff on wetlands issues and so forth, and I think we've, and Mr. Mazzotta's here and if he wants to address this he can, but I think we've already moved our garages once or twice at the request of City staff, and I think I'm fair in saying City and maybe I'm blaming the wrong people, but and there isn't any perfect answer. I mean, you know, there are people that aren't happy with where we have them now, and wanted them back, and so, you know, Karen, but yeah, I think we would be open to this, those sorts of issues. And certainly we wouldn't want to, obviously, use chemicals or processes that are harmful to anybody, particularly our tenants. So we'd certainly discuss that. Thank you. Norton/Did you look into reorienting the buildings at all? I know that was a concern of some people, because you know, they're end-wise to the river at this point, aren't they? Hayek/I understand, and it was interesting, I wasn't going to bring this up, but it was This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 34 interesting, at least, there was one Commissioner who was very critical of our architectural plans, and I'm not an expert on this. I really don't know much about how the buildings came to be oriented the way they are. Mr. Mazzotta could answer that better than I. I don't know, basically, the answer to that. Kubby/But the concern was not capturing the essence of the river, to take advantage fully of the site. Norton/Yeah. Hayek/And I think that's certainly legitimate. I mean, it's along the river, and it's a beautiful site in that regard. I like the river personally. Kubby/Right. Although that issue, we don't get to that issue until we get to the land-use and the density issue, and if we say okay to that, then we can talk about those other things, really. Hayek/Right. Thank you very much. Lehman/Thank you, John. Thornberry/Thank you, John. Lehman/In the interest of moving this along, I'd, Karin I have a couple questions, if I could? In reading the P/Z Commission minutes, which I admit I didn't go through with a fine-tooth comb, but and also reading the staff report, I sense that the biggest objection or concem is one of access. Franklin/That's correct. Lehman/If the Council would decide that the access issue can be overcome, it is in your opinion, can the other items, well, I would hate to ask you if they can be overcome, the other issues can be addressed and discussed with, but unless the access issue is acceptable to Council, there's no point in discussing any more of this. Is that correct? Franklin/That's fight, yeah. Lehman/If--? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 35 Franklin/I think there's, there are some other things that we need to work on that have to do with erosion control and the wetlands. Lehman/Right. But none of those make any difference -- Franklin/Moving elevations. Lehman/But none of those, they make no difference if we do not approve the access. Franklin/Right. Lehman/So, would it be fair to say that our decision tonight, at either to continue the p.h., saying we believe the access issue is one we can live with, or to say no, we cannot live with the access issue and close the p.h. and it's over. Franklin/That's right. Lehman/So I guess the only -- Norton/Suppose-- Kubby/Well, there are -- Norton/The only alternatives, Ernie, if we continue the p.h., does that mean we're blessing this project and so forth? Lehman/I don't think it means that at all. It means that the access issue, if we decide that the access issue is one that we can live with, in other words, we don't believe the access issue is enough to prevent the project from moving forward, that means that all of these other things, erosion control, pesticides, all the orientation of buildings, masses, all of those things have got to be worked out with P/Z. Franklin/The first thing you're continuation does is it says that you do not agree with the position of the P/Z Commission. And that you are willing to entertain rezoning of this property, that the access issue is not as critical to your decision as it was to theirs. Lehman/Right. Thornberry/Could we --? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 36 Franklin/Then '- Thornberry/ Or as an obstacle that couldn't not be overcome. Franklin/Okay. Then you have your consultation with the P/Z Commission, because they then have the opportunity to talk to you again about what their concerns are. I would see that time as also a time for you to discuss some of these other items, so that we can then work on the conditional zoning agreement, if you should, after consultation with the Commission, choose to continue on the path to rezone the property. Norton/Well, I just want to be clear that if we continue the hearing, and meet with P/Z, hammer on some of these issues, and P/Z were to convince us in that discussion that their original position was correct, we could still do that. Lehman/Correct. Franklin/Absolutely. Norton/And we might come to the other conclusion, so that either way, is open to us if we continue the hearing. Thornberry/That's correct. Franklin/Right. But I think in fairness to everyone who has been involved in this, that by continuing the p.h., there should be a strong feeling on the part of a majority of the Council that you wish to rezone this property and that the access issue is, how did you say it, Dean? Thornberry/Not something that couldn't be overcome. Franklin/Not something that couldn't be overcome. Norton/That's a double negative. Thornberry/Well, yes, it is. Kubby/Maybe before we have that discussion, you did, someone wanted to speak during public discussion was told to wait, and there might be other people in the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 37 audience? Thornberry/Oh sure, yeah. Kubby/Before we get into it. Lehman/Karin, I think you've clarified it. Our, to me the question the Council needs to answer is the one of access. That doesn't say we approve the project, it just says that that alone wouldn't be enough to kill it, and that we would then consult with P/Z. Kubby/It could also be an issue of density. If you're just not accepting of anything over 5. Lehman/I agree with that Karen, except that 72 could be changed in discussions with the developer. Kubby/The zoning would not change. Lehman/The access issue can't be changed. Kubby/But the, well, you'd still be denying what's before us to do that. You wouldn't want to have this p.h. continue if you wanted RS-5 and OSA-5 for that property. Norton/Or OPDH-5. Kubby/No. Lehman/Okay, thank you, Karin. O'Donnell/I'm having trouble with the zoning. Mrs. Joseph Howell/I'm Mrs. Joseph Howell. I lived with an attorney, or not with an attorney, but with a man who was head of the hydraulic department here for 38 years. I heard lots about floods. He was on the Committee when it came up to the building of Normandy Drive, and he said nobody should build and put a basement in any property along Normandy Drive, they're going to get their feet wet if they do. I am absolutely amazed to think that you would put any building on this property that you're talking about now. I've lived there 50 years. And I've watched it. I just can't imagine it. You see, when we first moved out there, it was This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 38 beautiful. The hills there, where the apartments are were beautiful old trees. They were cut down, whacked up, taken across the street, and put where this building is supposed to be. And the Corps of Engineers looked at it. And they said stop it, don't put anything more on that property. And I think that that's what you folks should do, is to contact the Corps of Engineers, have them come down, and see the situation. He says, you're going to get your feet wet. And a little bit west, yes, there are more trees, and usually, there's water standing around those trees most of the time. And I just can't imagine putting a big building there with these old folks. And I'm an old one, I'm 89, and I would not want to live there. And I would hate to see that kind of a building put there. Thank you for listening to me. Lehman/Thankyou. Vanderhoef/Thank you. Joel Wilcox/My name is Joel Wilcox. I live on Taft Speedway Street. And I've lived there since 1992. And I've gotten to know the area pretty well since that time. One of the things that is hard for me in talking about his is that it seems so intuitively obvious that it's not really a very good plan. I can't really speak to the specifics of the architecture or to the layout or to the traffic control issues on the streets, because the whole premise seems flawed at the outset. When the P/Z Commission met to talk about this, I thought it was an interesting session because they, really fairly quickly, decided to deny. But there was a fairly extensive discussion afterwards, after the denial about what the denial meant, and what they were saying to people who wanted to propose to do something with this area. Which led me to believe that, in a sense, there's a sort of a feeling of inevitability that this area needs to be developed. I mean, it's just out there, and sooner or later somebody's going to come up with something that we're going to buy into because, you know, it's just got to happen. It's the gateway to Iowa City. It's a conspicuous and interesting place. And so, we need to build on there. One of the persons on the P/Z Commission said the place right now is an eyesore. And I would agree with that. I mean, to live in this neighborhood, and to drive past an area where people come and dump stuff, there was an air conditioner there for a good period, it may still be there, there's a chair now that somebody's left there. It's not my fault, but I do feel an embarrassment that the neighborhood is regarded in this way. And you know, I feel eager that something be done to make it nicer, to make it fit where I've chosen to live. And I have chosen to live there. I didn't choose to be flooded in '93. I didn't like it very well. None of my neighbors did either. None of us thought, the neighbor that built my house, in fact, in 1958, the year after the Reservoir was constructed, never dreamed that this area would not This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 39 be protected by that Reservoir at some point or another. But we live with a new realization of what it is like to live on the floodplain. I didn't tear down my house. I built it. I built it higher. I did what I could. But at the time of that P/Z Commission meeting, one of the things that was running through my mind was that probably a week or ten days prior to that meeting, the City had brought a load of sand down to the four comers area. And a uniformed police officer came to our house with a flyer from the city, saying that if we get the anticipated rains that we think we're going to get, the river could rise through flooding off the creeks to four feet higher than it was already at. And I got to thinking are the, is the water going to work, is the sewer going to work? You know, are all those things going to work? I'm not going to die. I'm not, you know, real bad things are not going to happen. But it's a major inconvenience to think about not having those basic facilities. You know, I have a keen memory of in the flood, sandbagging all day to build a levee in the back, and not being able to take a shower. And not even being able to take, you know, to use the way of nature in a respectable way. Kubby/Delicately put. Wilcox/So, I, what I think, in one sense, I don't really, I don't really care on this issue. I don't care about the specifics of the plan. I don't care about the accouterments. I don't care about raising Taft Speedway, I mean, that's just going to be a hump, folks. You can raise whatever portion of it, everything else around it is lower. So, I mean I appreciate the sense of the gesture that is being made to these issues. I don't know that, was the, I don't know, but my understanding was that essentially the plan was not changed in any way to speak to the issues that the P/Z Commission presented to you. Maybe that's not the case, I don't know. Mr. Hayek has indicated that there's some goodwill to do some things. So, weigh those as you see fit. My interest is not so much in the specifics, my concern is that this is not an area that and a set of circumstances in which I would wish to place my aged parents. And I feel as though in one sense, you put up a structure like this, and in a sense you dump people there. If the people are not able to understand the full impact of what it means to live down there, to be able to get in and get out, to know that the facilities will be available. That concerns me. Thank you. Lehman/Thankyou. Thornberry/A question about your last statement. I thought that it was not a care facility. I thought it was a facility for low-, moderate-, elderly income. And by today's standards, I've been an elderly person for quite a while, in fact, Mike's This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 40 even elderly. O'Donnell/I don't think so. Thomberry/Over 50 years old, you're elderly. O'Donnell/Maybe. Thornberry/This, this building is for low- and moderate- elderly people that don't need health care. I don't think, I mean, I would feel bad about what you said about dumping your parents as somewhere or anywhere. I don't think that this is a facility that that would be happening with. I may be wrong. But the way it was presented was a low- to moderate- elderly facility with non health care. Wilcox/Let me clarify my words. I don't think that it would be dumping a person there in a sense of we don't care about you. I think the City or people who know the issues involved with living in an area like that, where at times of high water, the concerns about the facilities or just whether the facilities will work, or whether one can get in or out easily, or how one will get in or out. I had to, you know, I had to canoe into my house many times to get things out, to do what I could to keep you know, things from deteriorating. And I don't think that would be the issue here, because I do think they would build it above the level. But the getting in and out. I think that people might feel, in a situation of high water, that, misled, or that they hadn't been told. They hadn't been warned what it was like to be in a place like that under those circumstances. And once, it's, nobody told me about it, either. I wish they had. And that's what I'm doing right now. Champion/Well, I do. Thornberry/No one told you that living along the river that the river might raise? Rise? Wilcox/No, no one told me that if we had flooding to the level that we had in '93, I mean prior even to the period in which I had water in my house, that I wouldn't be able to get water. Or that I wouldn't be able to use facilities. Thornberry/Or even get to your house, right? Wilcox/Take a shower. O'Donnell/Well I thought if it was brought up with advance notice, we could move the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 41 senior citizens out of the area. Wilcox/That would be wonderful. I'd like to see how that's articulated. O'Donnell/Well, that's what we discussed. Champion/I think the other factor here is that you choose to live there, even though now you've experienced the Great Flood. I think when you're talking about, I'm really tom on this whole issue, when you're talking about this residential facility, you're talking about low- and moderate-income elderly, it may not be their choice. It may be the only place that they can afford. I mean I think we should take that under consideration. O'Donnell/And there's a need for that in Iowa City. Kubby/Well, that's not the point Connie was making. I mean, that they might not have a choice, so even if they know about the flooding, they'd be willing to take higher risks than they normally would because of lack of choice. Ocie Trimble/My name is Ocie Trimble. I live at 103 Taft Speedway. I have lived there on Taft Speedway since 1958. I have put in five houses along that street as a moonlight carpenter in addition to holding a full-time job, so I have a lot of me in the homes on that street. And there's something unique that happened in '93. Our whole street was flooded. We were devastated. Everybody was. And when the flood receded a month and a half later, no one left. We all fixed our places up and helped each other out and sort of worked in a pioneer attitude and plan on staying there. Joel for instance alluded to the fact that he had no plans on leaving. In fact he bought, the house he bought was one of the houses I built. The point I'm making is, we, none of us care to have a change in the zoning. We who live there don't want it to happen. There's in addition to the piece of property that's being talked about, there's 14 or 15 acres right between that property and the edge of my lot that's also owned by the Glasgow family. And if one piece of ground is given to this type of zoning, it's only logical that the next piece could also be granted the same. I mean, why not? And as far as the flooding at the end of Taft Speedway and on Dubuque Street, we've lived there quite awhile, a third of a century or so, and I've seen Taft Speedway underwater a lot of times. I've also seen the highway underwater quite a few times. This spring, for instance, it was underwater at that time, the night it flash-flooded. We, of our neighborhood, as the spring waters rose in the Reservoir, got a little skittish again. We're a little gun-shy from the last time. And we're all making trips up to the Reservoir every day watching the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 42 water-level rise. All took our Flood Insurance out. A little bit scared to say the least. And breathed a big sigh of relief when the drought sort of started in and helped us out. Now this is the hardest kind of protest I can have, because I happen to like Jim Glasgow as a person. I hate to go against him on things that he wants to do. He's a fine young man, hardworking businessman. And I hate to get in the way of progress of somebody. But we don't want the complexity of our neighborhood changed anymore. We lost a 30 year battle across the street at the Englert Track as you are all aware of. Our whole neighborhood, as you recall, we tried to give the, well, we were all willing to pay for the property, buy it, and give it to the City as a park. And the City didn't want it at that time. And then as time went on, one group after another group came along, and we finally lost, as will always happen eventually. We would not want to see any more change in our area than has already happened. We'd like to see it stay zoned the way it is, and I speak for all the people that live on the street. Thanks a lot. Kubby/Thanks. Norton/Can I, oh, pardon me. Carol Seydel/I'm Carol Seydel. I have lived on Taft Speedway, have been a part of Taft Speedway for 60 years. My great aunt was an Englert, so I own, now the Englert property. And I think what I'm concerned about is first of all, you should fix Dubuque Street. And maybe then, this beautiful piece of property can be developed in an aesthetic, proper way, some kind of a beautiful building put there that would be used by all the people, and enjoyed by all the people. If you raised, this is about as high as the building across the rode, the Idyllwild is being built off Taft Speedway, and I'm concerned that that is even close to the fight-of-way, too close to the fight-of-way. And that's one of the new buildings. And this is how high they're building it off Taft Speedway. So what we're talking about is coming off of Dubuque Street onto, I mean it will have to be this high to agree with the floodplain. Our house had to be raised 32 inches after the last flood. We raised the little cottage that we have -- we don't live there permanently, because we can come back to town. But everybody that was along the road, there was Mrs. Scott whose basement imploded and she was in the house, she had to be evacuated, terrified; Mrs. Rikehart was taken over to Walden Place, everybody moved out to different quarters during that flood. They were terrified. I'm an elderly person, and I would go out you know, to see occasionally how the house looked, but I would not go through the water. The water was coming through there at a rate of speed that would take a boat down Taft Speedway, at, you couldn't control it. In fact, my brother-in-law and his son were moving their canoe out and they got This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 43 caught in the crossway on Taft Speedway, and were taken down. I think Ocie did, was taken a couple times at the current, the rate that the current comes through there when the water's up. By the way, when this water went over the Speedway, we, it was the Fourth of July, and we were having a party that night with our family. The next morning when we woke up, the water had come over, the flood was there. Now, that's how fast it happened. Then the ladies had to be evacuated because the basements, they didn't keep the pressure stabilized. And not only does the water go up over the top of the bank, but the water in the river rises in the ground. So what you're talking about when Mr. Glasgow moved the debris across the street from where he built his apartments, he brought over limestone. And which, all of this is there, you know, there's water under it at the same level as the river, it goes across, even to Idyllwild buildings. You're sitting on water with a top of soil. And how they want to build something for the elderly, I think the City should stop, make a plan to fix Dubuque Street which was flooded again the other day when the rain came down just noah of Taft Speedway. There's only one way to get onto Taft Speedway. One car can cross that intersection at a time. Otherwise, you have to lien up, and you get 72 cars lined up there, where are people going to go? First of all, fix Dubuque Street, make it four-way somehow. you have great engineers, figure that out. Then, by the way, Taft Speedway's already developed, except for the wetlands which shouldn't be developed. So what I'm asking you, make your plans. First of all, Fix Dubuque Street, then go. But there's no way to get onto Taft Speedway. Absolutely no way unless you put a four-way street there. And then, well you can come on, and then as I say it'll be this high offDubuque Street, approximately. Maybe I'm a little exaggerating here. But then that's how you have to look. Are you going to come up steps? Are you going to come up, how are you going to get up there? And then you would have your exits. But I have lived there for 60 years. I've gone through five floods. We stay. We go back because we have another escape place to go to. We are planning on building a permanent house there, a small one, because it's -- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-97, SIDE A Kubby/Well, I'm in favor of, I'm not in favor of increasing the density. I voted against Idyllwild years ago, and I would maintain that we shouldn't increase the density. So I would be ready to agree with P/Z and to close the p.h. Norton/Well, I'm in that position. I think that OPDH-5, something like that. Some kind of carefully planned development at the same density might something happen This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 44 later, talking about the additional vacant spaces down there. I also agree that we've got to deal with Dubuque Street ourselves, quite independently of this development. But I just think I don't want to see an increase in density. One thing I'd like to ask, incidentally is, if this were, if it did go through, can you, is it earmarked for seniors, or can it later, if ownership changed, can it revert to some other use? Thornberry/Well, there's the public and private funds -- Kubby/I think there's some agreement -- Norton/The use of these funds would preclude its change? Vanderhoef/The CDBG monies, I think. Dilkes/Yeah, I think the CDBG agreement contains assurances about affordability for certain groups. Kubby/They might be having some kind of tax credits too, that would impact on that. A 30 year, is it a 30 year deal? Okay. Norton/Okay. Because we've had other cases where that wasn't so clear that it couldn't revert to another use. But this one would be bought with the, okay, in any case -- Kubby/It'd be a 30 year guarantee. Norton/I'm not in favor of disagreeing with the staff and the P/Z. I think the zoning is dense enough. Kubby/I guess in saying that, too, because I think that we have a vested interest in seeing that this project happens somewhere in the community, because we voted for that money, that we direct our staff to be even of more aid than they already have been with this project in finding an appropriate that has appropriate zoning, or that we would agree would be appropriate rezoning for this project. I think it would be a good additional investment for us. Lehman/Other discussion? I have a note here from Rick Fosse, I'm surprised, for me the biggest issue here is, well there are a number of issues. The one issue for me is whether or not access is something we can live with. Now there are a lot of other issues that I think have to be resolved. If the access issue cannot be resolved, then This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 45 there's no point in talking about any of the others. But Rick's note indicates that the noahbound lanes of Dubuque Street, flood with some regularity, especially when the water in the Iowa River is high, and we have a locally heavy rain. This flooding usually occurs noah of the intersection with Taft Speedway. 1993 is the only year of memory in which the southbound lanes of Dubuque Street were fully flooded. In '91, water encroached on the southbound lanes, but did not close them. At that time, the southbound lanes were serving both noah- and southbound traffic, because noahbound lanes were flooded. It appears that Dubuque Street southbound lanes, I've lived here for 40 years. '93, it was flooded. That's the only time I remember in 40 years. So I guess the access issue for me is not a deal-breaker. There might be other things that might be, but that one is not a deal-breaker. Kubby/But how do you get to that? Champion/But how do you get that? Kubby/But how do you get to that lane? Champion/How do you get to the open lane? It's on the other side of the street. Kubby/You have to cross the closed lane. Lehman/Well, Taft Speedway - when the other lane is closed, the southbound lane becomes two-way. Champion/But how do you get to it? Lehman/How do you get to it? Vanderhoef/It's the one on the west side. It's the west one. Lehman/Drive right through. Noaon/Yeah. Vanderhoef/It's the one next to Taft. Lehman/Yeah, it's the one next to the River. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page46 Champion/When it's open? Lehman/Yeah. Atkins/Going the other way, it's just the opposite. Vanderhoef/The east one is the (can't hear). Champion/Oh, oh, fight. Norton/It comes up the other way, yeah. Kubby/But you still have to get from whatever, I mean it matters how much Taft is flooded at that same time. Champion/Right. Kubby/That's the question. Lehman/I think it also matters what duration. And obviously over the years, we've never had a flood of duration except for '93 that significantly impacted that lane of traffic being two-way. Kubby/But I guess, how I'd rather have us talk about it is in terms of land-use. And if you believe this land should be higher density, then you answer the access question. And I understand that they're very linked. I guess I would like to hear some discussion about if people think that the density of that land should be increased? Because this is a land-use issue. Thornberry/Well maybe if, maybe through negotiation, Karen, we could visit with the people who are doing the project to decrease the number of units there from 72 to something less. Does that preclude us from accepting this? It does, probably. I don't know. If you don't want, you know, if you don't want that high a density, I guess we're not through with the negotiation. I don't know. I don't know. Vanderhoef/I really appreciate the work and the offers that Mr. Mazzotta has made to this community in building what we really need, which is low-income and moderate elderly living housing. Number one, I'm sorry this land was every zoned for anything. And that's past history. RS-5 is obviously the lowest density that we can go for residential. I recognize the Housing and Community This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 47 Commission allocated money for this type of a housing project without consideration of location, and I don't think that it is their business to look at that. They're just looking at the needs of our community. And as a Councilor, I am too looking at this, and one of my charges is for safety in my community. I guess I have a real problem with building in a flood zone. I've been doing a little reading and working on some legislative committees and it's in the National League of Cities deal to promote no building in the flood zones. And I haven't had anything that has changed my mind about this possibility of building in flood zones. I did appreciate Mrs. Howell's comment about talking with the Corps of Engineers, and I wished I had a little more history of flooding possibilities in this area since '93 in that I recognize things are changing in the Reservoir the capacity of the Reservoir, and I'm not a hydrologist or anything else, I don't know about those things. But it just seems to me that we are having more water problems all the time coming down from the Reservoir. And I can only think that it's going to get worse and have more opportunities for flooding than what we've had in the past. I'm real concerned about this. Howell/Why don't you ask someone from the hydraulic department? Lehman/Excuse me. Speak into the microphone, please. Howell/Why don't you invite someone from the hydraulic department to talk to you, to give you some ideas what you should do. You know, that's the strangest thing. Here we have that perfectly good hydraulic department. My husband, as I say, taught here for almost, well it was 40 years. And he was on the Zoning and Planning a good many years ago. And I remember also when all this was going on and they were tearing down the cliff and bringing it down onto this flatland, that the Corps of Engineers said, "Mr. Glasgow, don't put anything more on that land, don't do it. It is not for anything worthwhile." Vanderhoef/Thank you. Howell/I'll shut up now. Lehman/Okay. Thornberry/Dee, I appreciate your comments. You've got to understand that if all of these people took what you said seriously, none of them would live where they live. And there'd be an awful lot of people have to be displaced in Iowa City, because there's an awful lot of building in floodplains. And the floodplains This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 48 change, but not dramatically. All of the buildings along, when I was growing up, all the buildings there along Dubuque Street there from across Burlington would flood every single year. And that's all floodplain as I understand it. There would be an awful lot of building not going on if you couldn't build in floodplains. So, I think that's not, they can do a lot with buildings now that they didn't used to be able to, and be able to live and build within floodplains. My comment, my decision on this particular, this is a p.h., on this ordinance, just a few little sentences brought it to mind that I've kind of changed my mind a little bit, and I don't think I will vote to approve this project. And I've been, I've been really pushing this project for quite some time. And could see the possibilities of this project but I don't think it ought to be built there. It ought to be built, but not there. Champion/I think we're all in favor of the project. Thornberry/So I don't see any -- Vanderhoef/I agree. Thornberry/Any need to extend the p.h. Champion/But I think about the neighborhood that's there, too. And all of a sudden you're going to put 72 units of residential apartments there? As a neighbor, in my neighborhood, I wouldn't like it at all. But secondly, I'm so enthused about the project, that I want it to happen. But I agree, it should not go there. That's not the fight place. Lehman/Well, I think we've demonstrated building with the ordinances that we currently have building within the floodplain that buildings that have been built under that ordinance, to my knowledge, not one building was flooded in '93. I believe that's correct. So-- O'Donnell/I think you're fight. Vanderhoef/But were the buildings accessible? Lehman/Well, my point is that they were not flooded. Norton/Yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6b page 49 Vanderhoef/The buildings. But accessibility to the buildings was impeded? Lehman/That was one time, in four years. I personally do not have a problem with the access to this property. Obviously, I don't think I sense support on Council for continuing the p.h. Continuing the p.h. would, in effect, indicate to you, John, and your client, that there is indeed a possibility of this being favorably considered by Council after visiting with P/Z. It appears from the discussion here that that is not a possibility. Do I read Council correctly? O'Donnell/I think you're correct. Kubby/I would like -- Lehman/Could we have a motion to continue the p.h.? Kubby/I would like to move that we direct staff to do what they can to help locate an appropriate, to help locate appropriate areas in the City that this project could take place. Lehman/I would think that there's plenty of availability out there with the business community to help them locate a piece of property. And I would, I'm equally sure that staff would do whatever they could without any direction from us to help. Kubby/Well, it just gives a message to staff, to the community, and to the developer, that we want to find a way to make this happen, and we're willing to invest a little bit more than we already have. Norton/Yeah. Lehman/And I think that -- Kubby/That's the message I would like to send. Lehman/And I think it's a good message for John to take to his client, that even though this particular proposal may not fly, it has very strong support for this type of development from the Council. Champion/Definitely. Lehman/P.h. is closed. We're going to take a seven minute recess. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6c page 50 ITEM NO. 6c Consider an ordinance amending City Code Title 14, Chapter 6, entitled "Zoning," Article V, entitled "Minor Modification Procedures," to allow the height of free-standing signs to be increased under certain circumstances. (Second consideration) Lehman/(Reads agenda item #6c). Thornberry/Move adoption of the ordinance. O'Donnell/Second. Lehman/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by O'Donnell. We've been asked for expedited consideration on this. Thornberry/I move that the rule requiting that ordinances must be considered and voted on for passage at two Council meetings prior to the meeting at which it is to finally be passed be suspended, that the second consideration and vote be waived, and that the ordinance be voted on for final passage at this time. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry. Vanderhoef/Second. Lehman/Seconded by Vanderhoef for expedited consideration. Discussion? Roll call- (yes). Thornberry/I move that the ordinance be finally adopted at this time. Vanderhoef/Second. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion? Roll call- (yes). Motion carried. Kubby/Mr. Mayor, excuse me, but before you go on -- Lehman/Yes? Kubby/There was a question during the break that maybe if we could answer really quick. We've closed the p.h. on the previous item. Does that mean that in two weeks we will see a motion to deny on our, we will have something to vote on in This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #6c page 5 1 two weeks and that we should vote yea or nay appropriately to agree with P/Z? Lehman/I'm sure that's fight. Kubby/Okay. So it will be official in two weeks from now. Okay. Thank you. I'm sorry for the interruption. Lehman/No problem. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #7a page 52 ITEM NO. 7a AMENDMENTS TO THE FY99 OPERATING BUDGET. a. PUBLIC HEARING Lehman/(Reads agenda item #7 and comment). The p.h. is open. Don, do you want to give us a thumbnail explanation of what we're doing? Kubby/About this $501 on page -- Lehman/This, really, I think is more for the public who may be listening or watching than for the Council, because we don't understand it anyway. Norton/Oh, we understand it. Champion/We got a plaque for it. Don Yucuis/A lot of this is to make sure we comply with State law. We have to have budget authority to spend money, and unfortunately, we have a lot of projects that have been in place that don't get finalized as of a specific date, and that's our budget year end, and we have to carry a lot of those over into the next fiscal year. In this case, we have approximately almost $59,000,000 of expenditures or transfers to carry over. And of that, $50,500,000 are capital projects. So it's a big, a lot of it is just capital projects that we all know about, but we need to get that budget authority carried over. Thomberry/Thank you. Norton/We don't have any regular amendments, do you? Lehman/Crossing the "t"s and dotting the 'T's. Norton/No regular amendments, do you? They're all carry overs, aren't they? Yucuis/Well, they're all carry overs. But they're, not all of them are capital projects. We do have operating carry overs, for capital outlay, we have vehicles that have been ordered and not been paid for and we have to carry that over, or in some cases, like in the water fund, we have chemicals that we need to carry over to the next year because we need that budget authority that we might have ordered them but we haven't paid for them yet. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #7a page 53 Lehman/This is basically to comply with State law. Yucuis/Yes, it is. It is. And it's in case someone comes forward and says we don't, we can't do that because it's not budgeted. And if we don't do this formally, and someone appeals to you or to the State, the State would require us to go to their offices and lay out our plan and say well, this is what's budgeted, this is what isn't. And they can tell us what we should budget and what we can't budget and what we have to decrease out of our budget. So, it's really a safeguard in my mind, that we really don't want that to happen. I don't want the State to tell us what we should or shouldn't be doing. Lehman/That's why you keep getting the plaques. Norton/But the public should understand that we haven't sat down and made heavy-duty decisions among ourselves about budget amendments. These are more automatic. Kubby/Right. This is basically adjusting for reality of our plans not being able to meet the time frames we had hoped they would. Norton/We made those decisions a year ago or so. Vanderhoef/This is not new money. Norton/This is not new money, fight. Vanderhoef/No new money. Kubby/That's a very good point. Yucuis/No, it's not. Correct. Lehman/Thank you, sir. Anyone else like to speak to this from the public? P.h. is closed. b. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING Vanderhoef/Move adoption of the resolution. Norton/Second. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #7a page 54 Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Norton. Discussion? Roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #8 page 55 ITEM NO. 8 (Revised) Lehman/(Reads agenda item #8). Karr/Mr. Mayor? Lehman/Yes? Karr/I believe you have a revised one. Lehman/I think you're right. Thornberry/There is. Karr/And the title will be behind it. Lehman/This allows us to issue multiple $5 tickets for violations that stand for a lengthy period of time. And my understanding is that $5 is the mount that is apparently set by State law. And this will allow us to ticket cars more than once for extended periods of overtime parking, or parked in the wrong place. Is that a fair assessment? Dilkes/The ordinance change that we made after the discussion last night was to make sure that it was clear that this provision would appear to all parking violations, not just to particular ones. Lehman/So yeah. Thornberry/Move adoption of the ordinance. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry. O'Donnell/Second. Lehman/Seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion? Champion/I have a lot of discussion. Lehman/Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #8 page 56 Champion/I don't object to the basic ordinance about ticketing, repeated tickets for people who are parked illegally. But again, I think we're, this originally came up because of parking on the opposite sides of the streets day where you could have people parked on both sides of the street, and that would limit access of emergency vehicles, buses, you know, ambulances, fire trucks. Norton/No. Champion/And I think that this targets again a very specific part of the population in Iowa City. And I think it creates bad feelings among out citizens. I would rather see us find some other solution, like maybe go back to parking on one side of the street only. Or posting some kind of sign that would let people know that it's going to happen. If you are a student living in an apartment building on a street where we have designated alternate parking, you have to get up in the morning and move your car, or now you could get, if you slept until ten, you could have $10 worth of tickets instead of $5 worth of tickets. If you're a student living on Summit Street, for instance, you only park on one side of the street and you can sleep all day and not move your car. If the idea is to allow access for emergency vehicles, then I think we ought to find another way to do that. Did I make myself clear? Lehman/Connie, I think you really did, and I, you and I talked about this earlier. I realize what we're trying to do, Joe, and we're not trying this as a fund-raiser. Not to enrich our coffers, it's to make the streets safer for buses and emergency vehicles. But I think Connie's observations would be well for us to take a look at. It may be less traumatic and less objectionable to the population to find parking on one side only rather than alternate parking. Joe Fowler/The way this began was I talked with Doug Ripley and told him that we had an ordinance that was ineffective. And that was the alternate day parking. You would go down, a couple of examples, you go down south Johnson Street and there would be, at 11:00, there would still be 18 cars that had parked illegally and had gotten tickets between 8:00 and 9:00. This morning on Noah Linn there were 15 cars still at 10:00. And if the purpose of the ordinance is to open that street so that it is accessible, what we have in place doesn't work. And we need to change it. And we discussed options from going to the one side of the street parking and doing away with the alternate day parking all the way to putting up signs that said "tow away", so that you could tow. This appeared to be a compromise position where there was an incentive, once you got the ticket, there's still an incentive to move your car. And it was less intrusive than towing somebody's car. I didn't This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #8 page 57 talk to the Police Department, but my understanding was that the Police Department was opposed to doing away with the alternate day parking, because they were afraid of a problem with street storage. Vanderhoef/Well, would you address also the safety possibilities. As I recall, one conversation, we were talking about how we got the street cleaned, primarily of snow, and we intrude further and further into the street if we always let cars park on one side and we can never scoop the snow out during a winter season. And this concems me then for safety issues. Champion/Dee, Summit Street is a major thoroughfare. Vanderhoef/And it's wider than some of the others. Champion/And you know, it has parking on one side of the street. All day parking. Thornberry/We could change that. Lehman/Oh yeah, we'll make it alternate, Connie. O'Donnell/We could change that, Connie. Lehman/I don't have a problem with trying this. Kubby/I think what it does is create some one-trial leaming, that you learn this once, and you don't do it again. I do, I don't know, people shouldn't be parking illegally, and they should get a ticket. O'Donnell/Well, I agree with you there. Thornberry/Joe, on football game days, on streets that have no parking on one side, do you allow parking on a special basis, like for a football game day, without being ticketed? Fowler/You mean like over around the Stadium and stuff?. Thornberry/Yeah. Fowler/The Police Department enforces that. I'm really kind of out of my element to speak on that. I'm not really sure what they -- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #8 page 58 Thornberry/I know on Sundays, on Sundays, there are extended parking for church services. Fowler/Yes. Thomberry/That normally would not have parking. And I was just wondering if that were the case on game days. Kubby/No. Fowler/I don't believe so. The comment that I've heard is that it's, and this is not from the Police Department, but it is cheaper to go over and take a chance on getting a $5 parking ticket than it is to pay what it costs you to park off-street in a lot for the day. Atkins/One of the common complaints, and I think you have to, we're very quick that the person who parks the car gets the ticket, gets upset by this, and I can understand that. No one likes to get a citation. But you also have to keep in mind that we receive complaints from the neighborhood. I can tell you that when there are events at Carver Arena, the folks in Manville Heights are not hesitant to say "there's cars parked everywhere all throughout my neighborhood". We will ticket them, and I can almost promise you H1 get a nasty letter from someone saying 'Tm never coming back to Carver Arena because your parking in my neighborhood". Well, folks we're responding to legitimate complaints, and they are illegally parked. And they will sit, an athletic event, I was thinking of the big wrestling tournament we had, people parked in Manville Heights, took the $5 ticket, and called it a day. Champion/Well, I'm not objecting to people parked illegally getting more than one ticket. Atkins/That's what this does. Champion/I know, but I'm objecting, my objection is to try to make it possible for people to park without getting tickets. Kubby/Right. So maybe on top of this we need to do some things in addition to this. Champion/Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #8 page 59 Kubby/To make it easier to park legally. Champion/Right. To make it easier to park legally. Because I think we have a targeted audience here. O'Donnell/Those who park illegally. Champion/Yeah, but the every other day. Atkins/We also have to be very realistic about Joe's ability to enforce, particularly on the near noah side. That's substantially enforced early in the moming. And we're not telling anything anybody doesn't know, between about 8:00 and 9:00. Because the duties of our parking enforcement personnel get switched to downtown. But we make a pass through that neighborhood with respect to enforcement. And it is unlikely we would send folks up there in the course of a day. I would think if we began receiving neighborhood complaints, I think that's part of the thinking here, we will have to find a way to accommodate that. Because we are going to have to issue that second citation. You mentioned the $20 ticket. Well, four times five, same (can't understand). Champion/Back to my original question, if the idea of doing this is to provide emergency vehicles the right-of-way to get to areas, if people are abusing the parking alternate days, why not get rid of that problem. And you solve your problem. Kubby/But you create another one, as Dee Vanderhoef was saying, which is really just a seasonal problem, and maybe there are some solutions to deal with this season issue. Although we also have street cleaning that we have to deal with. Atkins/Street cleaning, garbage pickup, a variety -- Thomberry/Storage. Lehman/Storage is the biggest single problem, isn't it? Champion/But if the sorority on Summit Street can park their car on Summit Street pretty much -- Norton/Well we pretty much fixed that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #8 page 60 Champion/I mean, I don't understand. Thornberry/Well, if complaints, if a car's not moved within what, 24, 48 hours, they can ticket and tow that vehicle by complaint. Champion/Right. Atkins/And that's how we deal with those. Champion/That's right. So why is it a problem then, to move to one side of the street. Norton/Because they have more options to park off the street. There's not a lot of street storage there, but there's some streets on the noah side where there's just no other option. And so you, if you're not careful, you block one side all the time. I think that, I think the effort to try to move them is legitimate. Where we can go to parking on one side, I think we do. But that still leaves the problem of cleaning. I don't know how you do that otherwise. Fowler/The problem's not just in the odd/even area. That's what first brought the problem to light. Because you'd see people continually, all day. If you look at the downtown district, if you park in the last parking meter and don't pay it, person pulls in behind you and parks in a no-parking zone and blocks the crosswalk, they're going to receive one $5 ticket, and you're going to be gone the same amount of time, maybe four hours, you're going to come back, you're going to have $12 worth of expired meter tickets. The other person's going to have one $5 ticket. There's no incentive to move their car and open the access. Champion/Well, maybe I need to clarify my position. I'm not against the repeating of tickets. Fowler/No, I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't just, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just the one issue that we were addressing. It's a little bit broader. Champion/No, I totally support that. I think that's a good ordinance, especially with alleys and loading zones or whatever. But, I just see a lot of young students getting a lot of tickets on this. If we can find a way to avoid that, I prefer to do that, that's all. Lehman/Connie, I would suggest that we try this and see what happens. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #8 page 61 Kubby/I mean, there are some things we can do. There are large numbers of people who live in neighborhoods that are close up that are members of fraternities and sororities that a few of us could go and speak to them. Or go to the Pan-Hellenic Council, which would be easier, probably, and speak to a lot of representatives at once, to let them know this is happening, to remind them that on their 50th dollars' worth of tickets, they're going to get towed with that last ticket, from $45 to $50, and to do some education. Atkins/You've got a pretty good audience on the 291h to raise the issue. Lehman/Right. Norton/Well, we have other things on the agenda, but there may be time. Atkins/But usually, nothing is more to a student than when you've got a ticket on the windshield. Lehman/Okay? Roll call- (yes; Champion, no). Champion/I'm going to vote no, because I think the issue is more complicated than it appears. Lehman/Motion carded. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #9 page 62 ITEM NO. 9 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 7 OF THE CITY CODE, BY ADDING A NEW CHAPTER 4 ENTITLED "CONFINED SPACE RESCUE" TO PROVIDE FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF FEES AND ASSESSING COSTS WHEN UTILIZING THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S "CONFINED SPACE RESCUE TEAM" FOR PERMIT-REQUIRED CONFINED SPACE RESPONSE RESCUE OR RECOVERY OPERATIONS. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Lehman/(Reads agenda item #9). This is second consideration. Kubby/Move second consideration. O'Donnell/Second. Lehman/Moved by Kubby, seconded by O'Donnell. Karr/Mr. Mayor, we have a request for expedited consideration. Lehman/We've been asked for expedited consideration. Thank you. Thornberry/Mike can't read, so I'll move that the rule requiring that ordinances must be considered and voted on for passage at two Council meetings prior to the meeting at which it is to be finally passed be suspended, that the second consideration and vote be waived, and that the ordinance be voted on for final passage at this time. Vanderhoef/Second. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Vanderhoef for expedited consideration. Discussion? Kubby/I guess, ifAndy could just say, I assume that's for all these items, I guess if you could explain why you want to move them along faster? Andy RoccaJ Well, we've spent a significant amount of staff time on them to date and we'd just like to put them in motion so we can start to make agreements with industry for confined space rescue, to get the fire lanes out there an operational as well as the false alarm. I mean, a lot of staff time, and it's time to put them to work. Kubby/Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #9 page 63 Lehman/Thank you. Rocca/Okay. Lehman/Roll call- (yes; Kubby, no). Thornberry/I move that the ordinance be finally adopted at this time. Norton/Second. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Dee Norton. Discussion? Roll call- (yes). Motion carried. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #12 page 64 ITEM NO. 12 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AWARDING A NON-EXCLUSIVE FRANCHISE TO MCLEODUSA, TO CONSTRUCT, OPERATE, AND MAINTAIN A CABLE TELEVISION SYSTEM WITHIN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Lehman/(Reads agenda item #12). This is second consideration. Thornberry/I move that the rule requiring that ordinances must be considered and voted on for passage at two Council meetings prior to the meeting at which it is to be finally passed be suspended, that the second consideration and vote be waived, and that the ordinance be voted on for final passage at this time. Norton/Second. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Norton for expedited consideration. Discussion? Kubby/I will be voting to expedite this because of the time frame. Lehman/Roll call- (yes). Thornberry/I move that the ordinance be finally adopted at this time. Norton/Second. Lehman/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Norton. Discussion? Roll call- (yes). Motion passed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #14 page 65 ITEM NO. 14 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 1, CHAPTER 4, SECTION 2, ENTITLED "CIVIL PENALTIES FOR MUNICIPAL INFRACTIONS," OF THE CITY CODE TO PROVIDE INCREASED FINES FOR MUNICIPAL INFRACTION VIOLATIONS. (PASS AND ADOPT) Lehman/(Reads agenda item #14). This is pass and adopt. Vanderhoef/Move adoption of the ordinance. Thornberry/Second. Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Thornberry. Discussion? Kubby/I'll continue to vote no, because I think these are too high. Lehman/Roll call- (yes; Kubby, Champion, no). Motion carded. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #15 page 66 ITEM NO. 15 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION FOR IOWA CLEAN AIR ATTAINMENT PROGRAM FUNDS, AND A SIDE AGREEMENT FOR RAILROAD INTERCHANGE TRACK CONSTRUCTION BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, THE IOWA INTERSTATE RAILROAD, AND THE CEDAR RAPIDS AND IOWA CITY RAILWAY COMPANY. Lehman/(Reads agenda item #15). Thomberry/Move adoption of the resolution for purposes of discussion. Norton/Second. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Norton. Discussion? Kubby/I think this is a great, creative use of those pollution containment monies, and many, many people in the community are going to be happy not to be stopped so often in the middle of town so that the hooking-up of cars will be done in a more rural area, and won't be stopping traffic, and that the clean air detainment part of this, the Attainment Program funds are used, the theory is that traffic won't be stopped and idling for so long, therefore not so much pollution will be put into the air. And so if that exchange can happen elsewhere, traffic, the train can go through faster and that idling won't happen. So, this is great. Lehman/Well, this is relative to a site that's going to be built, I believe, in Iowa County, that will hold a lot of railroad cars. Now my understanding is this will not remove the engines from the south part of Iowa City that sit there an idle most of the day. But it will, no, we were told that. Norton/I know, they do. Lehman/That will not change. There will be -- Atkins/It's intended to move switching traffic, thereby minimizing the blockages -- Norton/Or reduce the blockages. Thornberry/Mitigating the problem. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #15 page 67 Norton/It may not minimize it, because minimizing would be zero. Atkins/Reduce. Thomberry/And the railroads have agreed to provide the local match for this project. We were originally proposing to pay this. Atkins/We were asked to pay it. Council very quickly said well, now wait a minute, and Thornberry/Let's talk to the railroad about it. Atkins/Let's talk to the railroad, yeah. I, we didn't get to finish the sentence before you jumped on that. Lehman/I think that's fight. Thornberry/But the railroads have agreed to provide the local match, and to conduct all administration and so forth. Norton/I trust this won't diminish their concerns for crossings? Kubby/We'll keep the pressure on. Lehman/I'd have been disappointed if you hadn't said that, Dee. Norton/Okay. Vanderhoef/However, with less traffic, as far as the exchange of the coupling and uncoupling and work on the side tracks, there will be less traffic on those rails, and hopefully it won't put so much stress on the crossings. Norton/I hope so. Lehman/Okay, roll call- (yes). Motion carried. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #16 page 68 ITEM NO. 16 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND CITY CLERK TO ATTEST CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE 1998 PAVEMENT MARKING PROJECT. Lehman/(Reads agenda item #16). Norton/Move adoption of the resolution. Vanderhoef/Second. Lehman/It goes to All Iowa Contracting for $74,000. The Engineer's estimate was $113,800. It was moved by Norton, seconded by Vanderhoefto pass this. Is there discussion? Norton/Does this, is this the epoxy? Lehman/Yes. Kubby/Yes. Norton/Have these people had experience with it, I assume? Kubby/Yes. Lehman/No, it's first time they've ever seen it. Norton/I'm worried about the bid versus the estimate, you know. Lehman/They don't know what epoxy is. Norton/It makes me a little nervous. Kubby/I spoke with the owner and just for the public's information, this is a non-union shop, and they will be bringing their own workers in, because the equipment is specialized, because it's epoxy paint. They've been doing this for four years -- Norton/ Good. Kubby/Yeah, and very, yeah, and he was, because I was asking him some environmental This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 # 16 page 69 questions about it, and he said with water-based paints, you have a lot of airborne paint. With epoxy that's much reduced. And so he's got four years experience and has a specialized epoxy equipment and workers who know how to use it. O'Donnell/(Can't hear). Norton/So that's a pretty good bid, by comparison. O'Donnell/A great job at less than we've estimated. Norton/Well, it's quite a lot, that's all, every time I see that I always wonder oops, what's happened? Champion/We'll know better next time. It'll be cheaper than we think. Fosse/The reason for the difference there is that our experience with epoxy paints has been on small projects and that's the only thing we had to base our estimate on. And when you have a large quantity, there's certainly some economy of scale. We didn't know how much there would be. There's more than we though. Champion/We forgive you. O'Donnell/So, for Dee's benefit, this isn't going to be Elmer's glue, is that fight? Fosse/No. Norton/Very good. Lehman/Roll call- (yes). Motion carded. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #17 page 70 ITEM NO. 17 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND CITY CLERK TO ATTEST CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF PHASE I OF THE NORTH RIVERSIDE DRIVE/ARTS CAMPUS STORM SEWER PROJECT. Lehman/(Reads agenda item #17). The bid is $452,883. The estimate was $415,000. It was a little smaller than Rick anticipated, and so we didn't have economies of scale. Thomberry/Move adoption of the resolution. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry. Vanderhoef/Second. Lehman/Seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion? Kubby/Is there any advantage to bidding this at a different time of year, or do we really need to get going on this project? Fosse/We probably could have gotten a better price had it been bid earlier in the year. However, given the work that's going to occur next year on River Street, we really need to get this done. Kubby/We want to get this done first. Fosse/Right. The risk that we run by re-bidding this probably outweighs the benefits we might get out of re-bidding it. Lehman/This is part of a much bigger puzzle. Fosse/Right. Lehman/It has to be in place before we can do other things. Fosse/We need an outlet for the storm sewer on River Street before we build that. Kubby/So it's in, it's ten percent over the estimate, so it's not outlandish. Fosse/Yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #17 page 71 Kubby/And just, again for the public's sake, this is a non-union shop, and I couldn't talk directly to the owner to talk about local workers or not, so I don't know that information. Fosse/It's the same contractor that's building the Woolf Avenue Bridge. Lehman/Building what? Kubby/Woolf Avenue. Fosse/The Woolf Avenue Bridge. Letunan/Oh. Fosse/So they're fight in the neighborhood. They specialize in poured-in-place. concrete. O'Donnell/So once again, we are counting on a quality job. Fosse/What's that? Oh, we'll give you a good product. We've had good experience with this contractor. Kubby/Oh, do we require, when, I don't want to get into a big discussion about this, but when we define responsible bidder, does that include companies we work with, do they have to provide worker's comp? Is that part of--? Lehman/It's State law. Fosse/Eleanor, do you want to answer? Kubby/I mean, is that something that we ask about? Lehman/It's State law. Dilkes/I don't know if ask about that in our bid document. Fosse/I'm quite certain that we don't in the bid documents. Kubby/Okay. Well I'll maybe do some more research on that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #17 page 72 Dilkes/Yeah, we'd have to look at it. Kubby/Okay. Fosse/We do require references and we check on their experience, especially with other municipalities. And we look for positive experiences there. Kubby/Good, thank you. Thornberry/I don't get worker's comp. Champion/You're an owner. Lehman/Enough workman's comp. Roll call- (yes). Motion carried. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #18 page 73 ITEM NO. 18 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN IOWA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION FUNDING AGREEMENT FOR THE USTEP PROJECT - TURN LANE CONSTRUCTION AT IOWA HIGHWAY 1 AND SUNSET STREET. (UST-1-5(66)4A-52) Lehman/(Reads agenda item #18). This is a 55% State, 45% City funding. Thornberry/Move adoption of the resolution. Norton/Second. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Norton. Discussion? Norton/Is this, Rick, is this the first time, or do we normally use this, go to targeted small business? Is that a feature of this particular one? Fosse/Oh, the USTEP funding? No, we've used that for other turn lanes in that corridor. We used USTEP funding for the Burlington/Gilbert Street reconstruction. Norton/And do we have a special list of targeted small businesses that you try to involve? Fosse/I don't think it's related to targeted small businesses. Norton/Okay. Fosse/I think it stands for something else. Norton/No, I thought it was part of the feature of that agreement that they would get special consideration, certain small businesses. Fosse/Oh, in the USTEP agreement? Norton/Yeah. Fosse/That, I don't know the answer to off the top of my head. Norton/That's what it says, and I wondered who those were. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #18 page 74 Fosse/The State has a, their official list of those. And those are the ones that'll be eligible. Lehman/Further discussion? Roll call- (yes). Motion carded. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #20 page 75 ITEM NO. 20 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING EXECUTION OF AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION FOR USE OF CITY STREETS AS A DETOUR AS A PART OF THE HIGHWAY 6 RAILROAD CROSSING SURFACE RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT. Lehman/(Reads agenda item #20). CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-97, SIDE B Lehman/This is a project that's going to be done this fall. Norton/Move adoption of the resolution. Lehman/Moved by Norton. O'Donnell/Second. Lehman/Seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion? Norton/Well, I was going to discuss that I think it's a terrible detour. I don't know what we can do about it. But the plan, to detour traffic down Gilbert Street to and then north to Keokuk on the new road, Waterfront, isn't it? Vanderhoef/Southgate. Norton/Southgate. And then clear up to Keokuk, not just to Boyrum, but clear up to Keokuk and then out, I think it's going to be a zoo for that week. Lehman/Rick, would you, can you speak to this briefly? Fosse/Well, I think you're right, it's going to be ugly. Especially the first day of any detour. And our problem is, if you take Highway 6 away, we really don't have an east-west arterial system in the south end of town. So when that's out of commission, we're hurting. And we've not been able to come up with a practical alternative to closing the entire crossing down, because of the importance of this crossing. When it's reconstructed, we want to do it right. And they're going to be doing some different construction techniques there to get a better life out of this This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #20 page 76 facility. It'll include an asphalt base underneath the ballast which -- Norton/They can't do it in two halves, Rick? Fosse/ They tell us that that's going to reduce the durability of it, the product. And also, we've got the issue of, if we do build it in halves, how do we get that traffic so close to the Gilbert Street intersection transitioned to the other side? You know, that's a mess in itself. What this agreement does provide us some assurance of is that if there's extraordinary or any noticeable wear on these streets that are used as a detour, they'll make it good. They'll put it back into the condition that it was in prior to the detour. Thornberry/What's the reason for using Keokuk? Fosse/What's that? Thornberry/What's the reason for using Keokuk? Norton/Instead of Boyrum, for example. Fosse/Keokuk has got better capacity on it. It's got four lanes. So for that, at least for that small stretch, we've got four lanes on Gilbert, we've got four lanes on Keokuk. Champion/People will use other routes. Fosse/Southgate is plenty wide, but it's still only two lanes. Champion/Will there be notice put up? Fosse/Yes. We'll try and make a big deal out of it. Champion/Public notice on the road itself?. Thornberry/See, you've got an access to K-Mart fight offofKeokuk which is going to be, with the amount of traffic -- Lehman/You've got Hy-Vee offofBoyrum. Fosse/Yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #20 page 77 Thornberry/That's true. Lehman/There is no good way of doing this. Fosse/No. Vanderhoef/There isn't. Fosse/No. Thornberry/The only good thing about it, like you say, it's going to be a zoo. Champion/And I suggest we all unplug our phones that week. Lehman/Well, the only good thing is the length of time that it will be required, as long as the weather cooperates with us. Fosse/That's fight. The weather, and we're also making a request to the railroad to authorize additional hours work each day. And a larger crew on this project. Very likely, they'll build the tracks off-site, bring them in and set them in place to save time on this one. Kubby/There are things we can do, okay, we're acknowledging on the front that it's going to be a zoo. So why don't we use that as an attribute for a day to try to lessen the strain. Like putting up signs, like you know, "We know it's a zoo, please be patient with us" and hand out coffee, or -- Norton/ Yeah, or make a -- Kubby/Or make it, somehow make it, I mean we're fixing the tracks everyone's complaining about those tracks, we know this is a short-term inconvenience, but it's going to be worth it. And please be patient with us. And have something -- Norton/ Or this is your day to ride the bus. Lehman/There you go. Thornberry/It's semis and big trucks -- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #20 page 78 Norton/They should be tiding the bus that day. Thornberry/And it's '- Norton/ But we still could make some effort to try to keep traffic down. That would be a virtue. We can't keep the trucks off, but it would be a good day to encourage people to try the bus for a change. Kubby/Or make it, make it, the pain more tolerable by being goofy. Norton/Yeah. Kubby/Handing out balloons or free bus passes at the stop signs. Atkins/Someone in a clown outfit. Kubby/Yeah. Norton/Maybe the Council could sing our song out there. Vanderhoef/Instead of a zoo -- Champion/ Yeah, that'll keep the traffic away. Fosse/Well, the good news is -- Vanderhoef/We'll have a circus. Fosse/It's about an $80,000 project that doesn't cost us a nickel. Thomberry/It's not over a football game weekend, and -- Fosse/Right. Champion/Okay, let's vote. Thornberry/Maximum of seven days, I understand. Norton/And we've waited since 1994, remember, Rick. We've waited since 1994. This is one of those slow-moving projects. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #20 page 79 Fosse/And fight on the heels of finishing Southgate Extended. This is coming, long overdue. Lehman/You know, Rick, it's one of those things, we can't stand the crossing the way it is. We complain about that. We complain when you fix it. We complain about that, you can't keep us happy. But the seven days is helping. Fosse/Good, good. Thornberry/Better than two months like last year. O'Donnell/I think the City will be able to bear up under seven days. Thornberry/Well, have them tear up your street, Ernie, and see what you think. Lehman/I know. But there's no real -- Kubby/He has had his street tom up, Emie has. Lehman/Rick, this is the best solution that we have. Fosse/Yes, it is. Lehman/Obviously you -- Thornberry/ It'll hurt my business. Champion/It won't hurt your business. Lehman/Is there any further discussion? Yes? Steve Kanner/Well again, I would like to reiterate what was mentioned about supporting public transportation during this time period. And I would like City Council to perhaps direct staff to look into ways to promote public transportation, such as giving out free bus passes and adding perhaps extra buses or extra routes during this time period. Kubby/Or even no-fare on those particular routes that are on that side of town. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #20 page 80 Champion/That's a good idea. Norton/I think we should try that. Champion/That's a really good idea. Norton/Worth trying. O'Donnell/Good idea. Champion/That's a very good idea. Thornberry/99-cent walkers. Kanner/Thank you. Champion/Charge a toll. Lehman/Roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #21 page 81 ITEM NO. 21 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING A LANDFILL POLICY STATEMENT REGARDING IOWA CITY' S COMMITMENT TO OPERATE THE IOWA CITY SANITARY LANDFILL. Lehman/(Read agenda item #21). The statement attached to the resolution has been amended to reflect the Council Work Session discussion of last evening to limit the maximum land fill height to an elevation of 830 feet. Kubby/Sorry, Steve. Lehman/That's above sea-level, not above, relative to the ground. Thornberry/Move adoption. O'Donnell/Second. Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion? Roll call- (yes). Motion carried. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #23 page 82 ITEM NO. 23 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN MMS CONSULTANTS, INC. OF IOWA CITY, AND THE CITY OF IOWA CITY TO PROVIDE CONSLILTING SERVICES FOR THE NORTH AIRPORT COMMERCIAL AREA DEVELOPMENT. Lehman/(Reads agenda item #23). Norton/Move adoption of the resolution. Lehman/Moved by Norton. Vanderhoef/Second. Lehman/Seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion? Thornberry/I take it that, and it says "road use taxes will fund this work". Atkins/That's correct. Thornberry/Okay. Lehman/Roll call- (yes). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #26 page 83 ITEM NO. 26 CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS. Lehman/(Reads agenda item #26). Animal Control Advisory Board, -- Karr/Mr. Mayor, we ask that you defer that one indefinitely, and we'll get back to you on that one. Lehman/I was going to say, we didn't have anybody. So -- Norton/ Well, there was one. Karr/Yes, there was. Lehman/Well, a recommendation, but not an application. Karr/We ask that you defer that and we'll be back. Lehman/Okay. We will defer that one. Item b, Historic Preservation Commission. Council has appointed Marc Mills, Housing and Community Development Commission, we have an agreement to re-appoint Gretchen Schmuch, and we need to re-advertise for that Commission. Library Board of Trustees, appoint Winston Barclay. Do we have a motion to approve that? Norton/So moved. Vanderhoef/So moved. Lehman/Moved by Norton, seconded by Vanderhoef. All in favor? Kubby/I'd like some discussion on this. Lehman/Okay. Kubby/Last night, there was a majority of people who had agreed to re-appoint Dan Coleman as well as Gretchen Schmuch for re-appointment to the Housing and Community Development Commission, and I think we need to talk a little about why Dan Coleman is not, who has fulfilled an un-expired term of less than a year, why the majority is no longer there. Champion/Well, I'm the one who changed my mind, and I started out the evening last This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #26 page 84 night not thinking that he was the best person for the job. And I think in the lateness of the night and my hunger pangs and being tired, I just wanted to get out of here, so I think I made a bad judgment on my own part. I thought about it when I got home, and I just think that as an elected official, that I think Dan, although I have nothing against him personally, I think his political views are very different than the people who elected me and my own, and I don't feel fight in appointing people on commissions that I might not agree with. Norton/Well, that's -- Thomberry/So there. Norton/It's going to be tough to put that kind of a litmus test on all of our appointments to commissions, I think. That's, I mean, we certainly seek diversity on those commissions, and different points of view. In other words, everybody who was on the commission doesn't have to agree with the major sentiment on the Council. I would hate to think that's the case. Kubby/Yeah. I mean, is there something specific, some vote or discussion he made? Champion/I'm not asking that his name be withdrawn, I'm asking that it be opened up for choice. That's all. Norton/See if we get any new ones in addition? Lehman/Well, I don't think there's anything that say that he won't be appointed at some later date when we don't have a larger pool to choose from. Norton/Okay, let's see. Kubby/But people are always, in the past when I have spoken against certain candidates who are volunteers, some of the arguments have been this decreases respect for the volunteers, that this, I mean, if I were someone who was up for re- appointment who had filled an un-expired term, and was not chose, but we were kind of well, if we don't get anybody that we like better, we might appoint you, I just think that doesn't send a very positive message for people who put in some long hours and hard work on our commissions. And if Dan has done something as a commission member in his role as a commission member that was inappropriate or that you didn't like politically, like you thought that he, you didn't agree with any of his decision or votes on HCDC, because this is a political This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #26 page 85 process, so that political rationale can, and should, and will, undoubtedly impact some of our decisions. But I mean, if you're saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you politically you can't support, then -- Champion/Well I don't think that would be true. I mean I'm just giving you a rough reason. I don't think, I personally don't find myself being an unfair person, and I'm not going to discuss it any more than that. I just consider myself generally very fair. Kubby/Well I guess I would encourage people to talk with Dan personally who can't support him about your problems with him and his politics on the Commission. Champion/Well he's welcome to call me. Kubby/I guess I feel a special obligation since you changed your mind to attempt some conversation so that there's some understanding. Champion/Well you know, Karen, I -- Kubby/And we may disagree in this. Champion/I know. But you do, you know, you talk about things at a Work Session and you vote differently on the next night. Kubby/And I usually explain myself and talk to the people that I -- Champion/I think there are times when you haven't. Norton/She doesn't have to -~ Lehman/Well-- Kubby/I'm sure that there probably are. I haven't tallied that. Thornberry/I asked you a question at the last meeting, why, to explain your vote, and you said "I'd just assume not". And that's all you said, and you didn't, and I didn't pressure you for an answer. So I think that you ought to just leave Connie alone. Kubby/Well, you know, I have a reputation in a long-standing tradition -- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #26 page 86 Thornberry/Oh, I know you've got a reputation. Kubby/Of explaining my votes when they're different than the majority. Thornberry/You did not explain to me or the other one. Kubby/I don't think anybody disputes that. Norton/I don't think anybody's obliged to explain their votes. Kubby/That's fight. And we can confront each other and that's fine, and then it's your choice how we each behave. Lehman/This isn't public discussion. O'Donnell/It's not. Kanner/Isn't there a vote? I thought you said anything you have a vote on on the items that the gentleman before you would have public discussion. Lehman/Those are on agenda items. I don't know that you can call City Council Appointments an agenda item. Kubby/It's agenda item number 26 b, or 26 c. Lehman/Go. Kanner/Yeah. I would, actually, I think that it is good public policy to explain one's vote. I would like to speak to, in favor of appointing Dan Coleman as a member of this commission for Housing and Community Development. I think he's an articulate spokesperson, as seen by his columns in the local paper, the Icon. I think he expresses a viewpoint that I hold and many other people in this community hold. And it may be a minority point of view among the City Councilors -- O'Donnell/Which paper was that? Kanner/What? O'Donnell/Which paper was that? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #26 page 87 Kanner/The Icon. O'Donnell/Okay. Kanner/He's a regular columnist. And that's, I think, where most people are familiar with his position on many of these things. And it may be something you don't agree with. But I think it is necessary for the Commission to have that point of view. And I personally would appreciate the City Council not just one individual member, but all four members that apparently are not voting in favor of his re- appointment to articulate why they don't appreciate his service and his willingness to work for the betterment of Iowa City. Because I think he definitely does have the concern of all people in Iowa City here. And I don't think he's a tyrant in his position. I think he's open to a variety of ideas. And I would hope that you would reconsider and re-appoint Dan Coleman to his position on the Commission for Housing and Community Development. Thornberry/He may be. We would just like to have a bigger pool of people to draw from. We're not dismissing his application at all. Kanner/Well the way I read it -- Thornberry/My big thing, my big thing, and I'm not going to explain my vote, first of all. And I don't think I have to. But I think, in a process of democracy, I would like to have more than one person per opening. That to me is not a democracy when there is only one. That's something other than a democracy. And there are four positions open and two applications. I want a bigger pool to draw from. Kubby/Why would we reappoint Gretchen? Thornberry/I would just like to have a bigger -- I did not approve of any that were just one person for one opening. Kubby/Maybe we should separate these so you could vote no on that one, then. Thornberry/Right, I'm not going to -- Lehman/Let me suggest something. I really think that our boards and commissions are one of the real strengths that we have in this community. I don't think there's any question about that. I really feel that discussing people who have applied for This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #26 page 88 boards and commissions publicly is a very poor idea. If we expect good people to apply and we'd like to see good people serve on our boards and commissions, public discussion of their pros or cons certainly is not going to encourage people to make applications. Which is why I don't disagree with someone who says "I choose not to support so and so". I don't think that it's necessary, nor do I think it's proper for that person to sit there and enumerate the reasons why they do or do not, do support, yeah, I go along with that. I don't think that there should be negative comments made about people who apply for boards and commissions. Those are jobs that are thankless jobs. They serve the community. And I would encourage this Council not to say negative things about anybody who applies. On the other hand, I think boards and commissions are important enough that this Council would like to see the best possible pool. And by asking for more applicants, that's not saying that we don't have good ones. That's saying that this is an important enough position that we would like more people to choose from. We think it's important. And if we appoint this individual after we have more applications, I think it's even more significant that he gets appointed. And obviously, he stays in the pool. Kubby/So what's the rationale for appointing Gretchen tonight when it's at least two people on this Council's viewpoint that we need more applicants? Then why are we going to appoint Gretchen? Lehman/Obviously those who supported Gretchen were comfortable with appointing Gretchen. And that is another reason why I don't think we discuss why we do not support someone. Champion/Mr. Mayor, I'd like to move to vote. Thomberry/Call the question. Lehman/We already have voted. Champion/Oh. Kubby/No, we haven't. Champion/We haven't. Norton/We have a motion on the floor. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #26 page 89 Thornberry/I'll second the call. Kubby/I think this is wrong, that is rude. That is so rude. Norton/It's been moved and seconded, I think, hasn't it? O'Donnell/Correct. Let's vote. Kubby/Well, I will -- Champion/ Well we have to vote on my motion to call the vote. Thornberry/Yes, we do. Lehman/There's been a motion to call the question. All in favor- ayes; opposed- aye (Kubby). Kubby/This is for calling the question? Oh, you bet, aye. It's a rude motion. Lehman/All in favor of calling the question? O'Donnell/We already did that. Lehman/All in favor of the motion- ayes, opposed- (none). Motion is carded. And that is to appoint the people that we have recommended. Vanderhoef/Could I just ask, we have a resignation from Sandy Kuhlmann, and as I understand it, Sandy was filling a specific seat on that Commission. Someone in social service type position who does not apply for CDBG and Home Funds. I wondered if Gretchen might fill that slot? I understand she's a social worker, but I don't know whether she would fill the requirements for that. Otherwise, I want to be sure that we are advertising for the specific. Norton/There was a spot. Dilkes/If I remember HCDC's bylaws, they set forth a preference for a number of people, but they don't have to be from those slots. And I think maybe you're talking about the Homeless Coordinating Board? Vanderhoef/No, there is o- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #26 page 90 Kubby/It's from the Homeless Coordinating Board. Vanderhoef/Was it Homeless? Dilkes/It's just a preference, it's not a requirement. Vanderhoef/It's not a requirement. Okay. Kubby/So really, it might be a good idea for us to call the Coordinating Board to say talk to your board, see ifthere's someone who would be interested in replacing Sandy and have them apply. Norton/You need that expertise. Kubby/Thank you for that reminder. Vanderhoef/We need to look for that specific. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. F082598 #27 page 91 ITEM NO. 27 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION. Lehman/Council Information. Who would like to start? Champion/Well, I would just like to say that I hope people will take the time to walk downtown and they've started to put the limestone in, and it really looks nice. Lehman/It's going to be really nice. Champion/Yeah. Lehman/Karen? Kubby/Will you come back to me, please? Lehman/Sure. Mike? O'Donnell/I just want to encourage people to apply for these boards and commissions. They're very important and we do need your help. And I also want to go into something that Dee Norton talked about, a Police Auxiliary downtown. I think it's got a lot of merit, and I think we should look into it. That's it. Norton/Yeah, we've been, I thought that's been on our list. Atkins/We have, we have done a number of reports. And I think I've talked to a couple of you informally. All the, virtually everyone we have spoken to with Police Auxiliaries that support local police departments are armed individuals. And that I sensed on the part of the Council that there was not an interest in arming those folks. Kubby/No. O'Donnell/Are they well-trained? Atkins/They have to go through training, but the point still remains that they would be armed. And at least the communities that we spoke to said if you want to get one of these and you want to gather support, and you want to get the folks involved, they felt that being armed was a part of it. Now if that's acceptable, maybe we can just discuss it and lay it out for you in general terms with some kind of a policy direction. I believe we could put together a police auxiliary. Norton/I'm just surprised. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. #27 page 92 Champion/(Can't understand). Atkins/We don't want to do something that's (can't hear). O'Donnell/Very well trained. Vanderhoef/Cedar Rapids, have they discontinued theirs? Atkins/No. Vanderhoef/It's still going. Atkins/Yes. Norton/Are they armed? Atkins/Yes, they are. Lehman/Okay. O'Donnell/I think it has some merit. I'd like to pursue it. Atkins/Bring it back? Champion/I thought they were paid. Atkins/I'll bring it back officially at some point. Norton/We need more help, it's pretty obvious. Vanderhoef/For me though, I'm not interested in bringing it back unless it's brought back without the use of guns. O'Donnell/Well, if they're well-trained, Dee, they're just like a policeman. The same qualifying and everything. Atkins/If I can say this clearly, a divergence of opinion. Kubby/Could you give us and armed and an unarmed option? Atkins/I'll give you -- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. #27 page 93 Norton/I'd like an armed and an unarmed option. Champion/I'm willing to discuss it. Kubby/Okay, thank you. Norton/There must be some examples of unarmed ones. Champion/It scares me. Atkins/That'll be good. Lehman/Dean? Thornberry/Yes. I was remiss in remembering an engagement yesterday. Usually, my mind is like a steel trap. Most people have said, rusted shut. But, I did forget a special date in our lives, my wife and I, of our 351h anniversary. And I received a nice card from my wife, and a nice dinner and that was yesterday. And I'll make it up to you, hon. Kubby/I hope the tongue-lashing was worth it. Thomberry/She didn't. She is just such a nice person. She just didn't say anything at all. She was very quiet. O'Donnell/Probably the worst possible treatment. Thomberry/Thank you. Lehman/Dee? Thornberry/I'll make it up. Vanderhoef/Okay. I just wondered where we were. I think awhile back we talked about getting a list of the meeting rooms available in, on City property, in our public buildings, and what the rent or the policies and charges are for those. Atkins/You're fight. Vanderhoef/Thank you. I would appreciate that one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. #27 page 94 Atkins/We'll take care of that. Vanderhoef/And then I'd just like to say thanks to Maurice Head and the summer interns that conducted a survey on community linked deposit programs. Which was one of the housing programs that was suggested in the housing forum report. And these people worked real hard, and came up with a recommendation, and told us that really tight now there isn't much interest in this program by the local businesses and corporations to buy the money markets that would be the funding stability to the program. And that the local developers told them that the 2% difference in the borrowed money in the lending rate wasn't significant to work for this program at this time. So the recommendation came to us to defer this until perhaps interest rates were more significant. But as a Councilor, what I really want to say is I appreciate this kind of information coming back to me. It's not something that I have the time to go out and do, and talking to a lot of people without grounded information is real difficult to make assessments on. So, thank you Mattrice and to the interns for doing a good job. I do appreciate it. Then, I guess that's it. Norton/I just have one quick item. Where did we stand for the RFP for the peninsula, do you know? Atkins/We have, oh, in fact, we should be sharing something with you very shortly. I think Karin's got that schedule all put together -- Norton/So that's about to go. Atkins/Oh yeah, that's about to go out. Like within two weeks. Norton/Okay. Atkins/In fact, if you'd like I'll just send you the schedule to give you some idea on the thing. Norton/But we'll be heating about it pretty quick. Atkins/Oh yeah. Yeah. Norton/Okay, that's all. I have a couple of other items, but I'll take it. One has to do with sidewalk repairs, but I'll talk with Steve about that. So, nothing more, Mayor. Lehman/Okay. Karen? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. #27 page 95 Kubby/Yeah, I had a couple things. One, we got this report about our public information education person in our Water Department, and it was a decision to have this position paid for by water fees a couple years ago when we were struggling with the whole water resource, water plant issue. And it was for me, something I really wanted to do. But knowing that it was incorporated into the fees and so it's really nice to see all the community information and all the community help that this water education coordinator does in terms of interacting with kids, in terms of educating people how to conserve water, helping us understand what our potential resources are, and what the timeframe of the plant is. I just want to say kudos to Carol Sweeting. And one of the, there's a couple reasons why she's so good at this job. One is just her personality. She's really good at interacting and communicating with people. She's great on TV, too. You might see her on Channel 4 a lot. The other thing is she used to be an operator at the Water Plant, so she really understands how the Water Plant works. And I think that makes her very credible in her position. Atkins/She used to be a City Council member, too. Kubby/Right. And then she moved to Iowa City. So she was in Lone Tree, fight? Norton/There's futures for all of us. Atkins/Futures for all of us at the Water Plant, yeah. Kubby/This time of year is always kind of a, it's like we get a second new year in the fall in this town when the people come back. And so I just wanted to welcome all the University folks back to town. It's a chance for all of us to kind of have that second new year, to kind of start again, in following up on stuff, doing our homework, making the phone calls, and getting our work done. And so I just wanted to say welcome back to everybody. And I had another welcome, and that is a whole group of people, many of whom live in Iowa City, have had a big struggle at the University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics. And the direct-care workers at the Hospital voted to become a Union. And I think some of the community aspects of that that are real important to me is that meeting a lot of these people was very inspirational to me. Hearing about how they view the community differently now, after this endeavor. That they were victorious and that they are now wanting to get involved in their community on a different level than they were before. And I think that's very, very exciting to have all these, this new enthusiasm of wanting to understand how the community works, and to have a voice not only at the workplace, but in the neighborhood and their children's schools and communicating even with their families differently. So I wanted to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. #27 page 96 welcome those new members of the CIU. And to also invite the community, including Council Members, to the Labor Day picnic. This T~shirt I'm wearing is the City Federation of Labor Labor Day picnic. And on the back, it lists all 22 unions that belong to City Fed, which represent 6,000 local individuals who belong to organized labor. And all friends of labor, including unorganized labor, and including public policy makers are quite welcome to come to the picnic, which is on Labor Day, Monday, September 7th, in Lower City Park, shelter 11. Main dish will be provided. Drinks will be provided. Tickets for the rides, only for kids, though, because I was going to try to get some tickets for me, and they said no, you have to bring a child. So, I could borrow my godson or something. Will be provided, and people are encouraged to bring a side-dish to share. A lot of people will be there. It's a fun time. I encourage all of us to drop by and say hi. It's a constituency that is a growing constituency in our community, and has a lot of resources to offer us as policy makers. So, happy Labor Day, all. That's all I have. Lehman/A couple, three things. First of all, our next meeting will be on the 9th of September, which is a Wednesday regular meeting, rather than the usual Tuesday, because of the Labor Holiday. Our Work Session will be on Tuesday night. One of the things that we identified as a Council some time ago, I believe last fall as being a goal, if you will, was perhaps a closer relationship or interaction with the University of Iowa. And maybe some sort of meeting between the Council folks and University people. We haven't done anything along that line. I do have a meeting tomorrow with the President of the University and I will mention that. I do think it would be good. I know the Chamber of Commerce years and years ago set up regular meetings with the University and we found those meetings to be extremely helpful in understanding the concerns of the University and at the same time, their understanding of the concerns that we had as a City and Chamber. We received from Marian Karr a long time ago, and Marian, I apologize for not acknowledging this sooner. But you sent a memo to the Council about two months ago. And one of the things in the memo I would like to recognize, you will be, what is it, a Co-chair of the United Way campaign this fall? Karr/(Yes). Lehman/I mean, I think that is very significant, Marian. Not only are you a very, very valued City employee, but obviously a very committed member of the community. And I think Council is very proud of you, and also Steve, you have served with the United Way. Our City staff and employees are more than just employees, they're very active members of our community. And I know I speak for the Council in thanking you and looking forward to you doing a wonderful This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998. #27 page 97 job. Kubby/Now if you do that the same year you're doing the census, I'll wonder about you. Karr/No the same years I'm doing the census, I'm chairing it. Lehman/If anyone can do it, Marian will. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of August 25, 1998.