HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-09-09 Transcription#3 Page 1
Consent Calendar
Lehman/Item #3 is adoption of the Consent Calendar as presented or amended. Moved
by Thomberry, seconded by Norton. Discussion.
Karr/There is one amendment Mr. Mayor and that is to defer indefinitely #3e(3) which is
the resolution accepting the work for the replacement and removal of the roof at
the Civic Center. We are waiting for additional paperwork. It will come back to
you at that time. That is as amended.
Lehman/What is the problem with this? We have deferred this three times.
Atkins/To my knowledge, we have alerted the contractor. We are prepared to accept the
work, pay off the retainage if he will sign certain documents. We- It is his money.
We are just sitting here holding it, waiting for him to sign the paperwork.
Lehman/Knowing Yucuis, he probably has it invested.
Atkins/We will do our best.
Thornberry/Move as amended.
Norton/Emie, I wanted to comment. On one of these items is reducing the fees at the
landfill. You know, we don't get the opportunity to do that kind of thing any too
often and it is a fairly substantial reduction and I think the overall financial plan
for the land fill was clarified recently and presumably we are in good shape and
able to do this.
Atkins/Presumably we are and we recommend it.
Norton/Good.
Atkins/Okay.
Lehman/Well, I think even more important is representative of a Master Plan that we
have adopted that will conceivably last 30-35 years. Other comments.
Kubby/Yes, on page 3, Item # e(2), accepting the work for the Civic Center front
entrance. Our engineer stated that it has been in compliance. I just think it was a
bad decision to do the front entrance or how we chose to do the t~ont entrance.
We spent $70,000 and I am kind of thinking on that. We spent $70,000. So it is
one of my regretted votes and wish that I could learn the skill of seeing this plan
on paper. I mean we all approved of the plan on paper and I didn't- I am not very
good, I guess, at visualizing what is on paper out into the reality of the front of the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#3 Page 2
Civic Center because I just thought it would be a little different and actually I
think there are some problems with the brickwork myself but our engineer said it
is in compliance and I am not going to question his expertise. I just don't think the
work was at the highest quality.
Norton/I have been a little curious whether the railings are attracting skaters.
Atkins/They are.
Norton/What do you do, put bumps on them?
Atkins/That wouldn't be in compliance with ADA.
Thornberry/Will those pictures that we were shown for the renovation be kept on file so
that when they- You know, in 25 years, they can look back and say this is what
they voted on and this is what it looks like.
Atkins/If they remember who they were.
Thomberry/I would liked to have seen what it looked like, the picture looked like, when
they voted on it the last time because it looked pretty decent last time.
Champion/Mike and I would like to note that we weren't part of that decision.
Norton/I think it looks pretty nice. It is a matter of taste.
O'Donnell/However we do think it looks pretty nice.
Norton/Thank you.
Lehman/I think we have just exercised design review. Roll call- (yes).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
Page 3
ITEM NO. 4 PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
Lehman/Item #4 is Public Discussion. We invite the public to address council. We ask
that comments be limited to five minutes or less. We ask you to sign in with your
name and address.
Tom Muller/I am here tonight to go along with the letter that I recently wrote to council
in which I asked you to consider arranging a dialogue on the question of moving
the Senior Center programs to the building that previously housed Randall's
Grocery at the Sycamore Mall. This move would be a more user friendly location
that would solve several ongoing problems as follows briefly: parking,
accessibility, space from about 24,000 square feet to 27,000 square feet and a
situation where we could design the interior of the building to meet the programs
rather than as was done now and that is not a criticism of the way it is now. It
seems to me that this more user friendly building would also increase
participation noticeably and that would certainly be a plus. The move could also
allow for some additional program possibilities perhaps with a closer relationship
with nearby Kirkwood College and outdoor dining area or whatever other ideas
could be suggested. The current old Post Office building would be an excellent
place to house City administration offices, council chambers, etc., taking some
pressure off this building here. Incidentally I did serve on the Senior Commission
for three years, one as chair, so I have a little bit of background in this discussion.
Obviously there are going to be differences about this proposal but I feel that the
dialogue would certainly be very worthwhile. At times I felt that the Senior
Center was about a building and to about the people and the programs. So I would
like to ask you to review this situation and be sure the people and programs come
first. Thank you.
Lehman/Tom, you mentioned this to me prior to this. Do I remember correctly that you
brought this to the attention of the Senior Center?
Muller/I went to one of the Senior Center Commission meetings and they didn't really
respond. They did ask me if I would send them a letter so they could give it to a
committee and consider it. But beyond that- So they do have a copy now of this
letter and I don't own that building out there. I don't know who owns it. I am not
interested in that. What bothered me is that I would go out to the Sycamore Mall
and walk once in awhile in bad weather and I would see that building sitting
empty and I would see all of that parking around it and I would say, my God, why
not? And I just think that that building over there would lend itself to city
administration, maybe part of it an art gallery and this building down here would
be all on one level. People could get out of their car and walk in or get out of the
bus and walk in. Accessibility would really be no problem at all and I have even
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
Page 4
heard someone say there are $650,000 in the program to build this new ramp over
here. Maybe that could be taken and put out there and used to create that building.
Lehman/Tom, I am sure a copy of that letter will go to the Commission. Is that correct,
Marian?
Muller/I sent it to this Commission. I took it over there.
Lehman/I would hope that we have some sort of response from them.
Muller/Okay.
Kubby/Because anything that we would discuss, we would throw back to the
Commission for their recommendation.
Muller/Sure, that is understandable but this is a community project, the Senior Center,
and I am interested in. I don't use it frankly because I am too busy doing other
things but I think at some time when my hair gets gray I am going to start using it.
So that is a matter of time but I am interested in it and purely as it serves the
people in the community and I really think it could serve more if it were more
readily available.
Champion/I think you are fight. I think accessibility is an issue.
Norton/There is one comment I would like to make is that I would hate to see- Part of
the idea of having the Senior Center downtown is to keep the generational mix
downtown some. To keep people where the action is. You get kind of isolated out
there and that would give me some concern.
Muller/Well, Kirkwood College is across the street. So there could be a lot of interaction
there. Please think about it.
Lehman/Well, we will hear from the Commission.
Muller/Thank you very much.
Vanderhoef/Thanks, Tom.
Lehman/Other comments.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcfiption of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#5a Page 5
ITEM NO. #5a Consider a motion setting a public hearing for September 22 on an
ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 22 acres from Medium
Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) to Low Density Single-Family Residential
(RS-5) for property located in the Summit Street Historic District. (REZ98-0010).
Lehman/(Reads agenda).
Champion/Mr. Mayor, I have been advised by our legal counsel that because this directly
affects where I live at I should leave while this discussed and voted on.
Lehman/We are just setting a motion for a p.h. There won't be discussion so I doubt-
Wait a minute, Legal beagle is about to speak.
Dilkes/Your phrase not mine. You have been known to discuss things when you set a
p.h. If you are not going to discuss it and you are going to set it, Conhie certainly
doesn't need to leave the room but she does need to abstain from the vote.
Lehman/Connie, you may be excused. (Champion leaves room.)
Thornberry/Move to set public hearing.
Kubby/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Kubby. Discussion. All in favor- (ayes).
Motion carded, Connie abstaining.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#5c Page 6
ITEM NO. #5c Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of
approximately 9.27 acres from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to
Sensitive Areas Overlay/Medium Density Residential (OSA-8) to allow a 72-unit
residential development on property located on the south side of Taft Speedway
west of Dubuque Street. (REZ98-0009) (First consideration)
Lehman/(Reads agenda). This is on Taft Speedway west of Dubuque Street. We have
been asked to defer this. Is there a motion to that affect. Moved by Norton,
seconded by Vanderhoef.
Norton/To the 22"d, Ernie?
Lehman/Right. Discussion.
Kubby/I think we should state why we are deferring it.
Lehman/It has been requested both by the applicant and by staff to defer this. We did
have a p.h. two weeks ago tonight. A number of things were discussed at that
hearing. The applicant has a possible altemative which is preferable to the
applicant. If that alternative is successful, this will be dropped. But if that
alternative is not successful, it then would go back probably to P/Z and city staff.
Kubby/So it is not an alternative on the site, it is an altemative site. I would like to make
that clear.
Lehman/That is correct.
Kubby/Thanks.
Lehman/All in favor to defer- (Ayes). Motion carries.
Karr/Could we have a motion to accept correspondence?
Moved/Moved and seconded (Vanderhoef/Thomberry). All in favor- (ayes). Motion
carried.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#5d Page 7
ITEM NO. 5d. Consider a resolution approving a preliminary plat of Prairie
Meadow Part 2, a 16 acre, 7-1ot residential subdivision located at 2140 Prairie Du
Chien Road in Johnson County. (SUB98-0018)
Lehman/(Reads agenda). This is within our two mile jurisdiction. Moved by Thomberry,
seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion.
Norton/Ernie, I just wanted to ask, this is beyond our growth area? Is that right, Karin?
Kubby/No, we wouldn't see it.
Norton/Pretty close.
Franklin/It is in the growth area as we amended the growth area to go noah of I-80.
Norton/The question I have is that if you look at this development and the ones that are
adjacent to it on the east, I guess it would be, there seems like an awful lot of cul
de sacs and things and this is not being held to city standards I take it.
Franklin/Well, when this- Remember this cul de sac that is there already exists and it
was originally subdivided before it was in our growth area. So I think that
probably explains the difference in the standards.
Norton/Because ordinarily we would just want to see that in the growth area.
Franklin/We would want them to be built to city standards, yes. But we would not
preclude cul de sacs out of hand.
Norton/But I mean we chose not to impose city standards in this particular case.
Franklin/Well because the road was already in place. I mean it is not as if it is being
constructed. So I think that is the important part of it.
Norton/But water and sewer the same way I take it, rural standards?
Franklin/That is right, they are at rural standards.
Norton/Any chance that we annex this section? Looks to me that is the idea of a growth
area.
Franklin/Any chance in what period of time?
Norton/I don't know. I just think that in general we (can't hear) city standards close in.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#5d Page 8
Franklin/Right, we do annexations voluntarily. Them is nothing to indicate that this is
going to be annexed.
Kubby/But I mean are you suggesting that we would have them redo a street that is
already there and redo water and sewer lines?
Norton/Well, I mean in so far as they could to try to meet city standards. I guess they
can't all together because it is all done but there is more of it that is going to be
developed, isn't there?
Franklin/This is dividing other lots but it is not going to extend the street.
Norton/When they come to adopt Lot 7 and after the road is moved, aren't you now
going to face again the same thing. Will they go in trader the old style?
Franklin/No because Lot 7 would be accessed another way. There would have to be
anther road that goes into to access Lot 7 because you can't get to Lot 7 from the
cul de sac.
Norton/You could impose city standards there then?
Franklin/Yes.
Kubby/Except what is the force, everything is there? It is just not practical policy to have
them tear stuff up.
Norton/As long as we consider it when we come to the next piece as we will shortly.
Kubby/I mean if there was a problem with the quality of the infrastructure and they were
having problems out there, I might think about it.
Norton/Yeah, I don't know.
Lehman/Well, I have never had staff being excused of being too lenient. So I suspect it
was looked at rather carefully by staff before your recommending approval.
Would you concur?
Franklin/Yes.
Lehman/Thank you. Further discussion? Roll call- (yes). Motion carded.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#5f Page 9
ITEM NO. #5f Consider a resolution approving a preliminary and final plat of a
Resubdivision of Lot 53 of Walden Hills, an 8.33 acre, 4-lot residential subdivision
located at the northwest corner of Rohret Road and Shannon Drive. (SUB98-0019)
Lehman/(Reads agenda). Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by North. Discussion.
Norton/Well, this is a nice outcome of a long process I think.
Lehman/I would agree.
Norton/A long process of juggling different points of view. So I think it is a really nice
development proposed.
Lehman/Roll call- (yes). Motion carried.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#5h Page 10
ITEM NO. 5h. Consider a resolution adopting a schedule of fees for Planning &
Zoning and Board of Adjustment applications.
Lehman/(Reads agenda). We discussed this last night. Do we have a motion first?
Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Thornberry. We discussed this last night. We
asked and I believe received a sheet giving the comparable fees that are charged
by our sister city.
Champion/No, we don't have that.
O'Donnell/I don't have it.
Lehman/Did I not see that tonight?
Karr/There is an amendment on vacations. This was a typo.
Lehman/I didn't see it but it has appeared miraculously.
Franklin/You did see it? How did you get it?
Karr/No, it is here. They do have it.
Franklin/No, the sister city fees. Rezonings in Coralville which are typically planned
developments are $500. A preliminary plat is $150 plus $15 per lot. If they just do
a straight rezoning with no planned development, it is $150.
Lehman/How do those fees compare with ours?
Franklin/Okay, the rezonings are comparable to ours, the subdivisions are quite a bit
lower.
Thomberry/Is that comparable now or comparable with this increase, Karin?
Franklin/Let's see, I am trying to remember the exact number. You have got it before
you for the rezonings.
Vanderhoef/$330 up to $355.
Kubby/The other thing to think about is in our rezonings we have a Sensitive Areas
Ordinance, an Open Space Ordinance that our staff is in charge of implementing
with each rezoning and subdivision and there are some additional responsibilities
and staff time and work involved.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#5h Page 11
Thomberry/What we are saying is it costs more per hoop.
Franklin/Our planned developments are $515 plus $15 a lot if they are subdivided. Often
those are not. Their planned developments are $500. So there is approximately a
$15 difference. Rezonings, just a straight rezoning, ours under the new proposal
are $355, theirs are $150. Under the new proposal, our preliminary plats are $515
plus $15 a lot, theirs are $150 plus $15 a lot.
Norton/So we do a lot more review.
Franklin/We do.
Thomberry/And it just costs more. It costs more per hoop and we have got more hoops.
Franklin/I know this isn't going to sound fight but we have a planning staff and the City
of Coralville does not. They use their building official to also review all of their
development projects. So there are additional staff costs that you have in Iowa
City that you don't have in Coralville. There are additional reviews and it costs
more.
Thomberry/Thank you, I appreciate your diligence in research.
Champion/Karin, is it the same whether you are doing a business development or a
residential development or a commercial development?
Franklin/Yes and I think we approach residential developments as a business. I mean the
people who are doing them are in the business of developing. When you find
individual households that are coming before the city, it is usually before the
Board of Adjustment for a variance or a special exception. A variance, if the
variance is granted, then the fee is refunded. It is a little quirk but the idea is that
if it warrants a variance then there is reason to reftmd the fee and that was the
decision of the council some time ago. Now we rarely grant variances.
Lehman/When did we last adjust these fees?
Franklin/I want to say '94.
Vanderhoef/1990 1 thought.
Thomberry/Karin, did you just say that we very rarely approve adjustments?
Franklin/We very rarely approve a variance as opposed to a special exception which is
technically a different type of review that the Board of Adjustment does and it
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#5h Page 12
doesn't take- It takes a much more stringent test to get a variance according to
Iowa State law.
Thornberry/But it costs you just to apply, is that correct?
Franklin/Yes, it does because you- With a variance or with a special exception you, as an
individual property owner which could be a business or an individual, are getting
a special right that one normally under the code would not have. You are asking
for special consideration.
Thornberry/Thank you.
Dilkes/The resolution states it has been since 1990.
Franklin/'90? Okay.
Lehman/Eight years since we have adjusted the rates.
Franklin/Yes.
Lehman/Further discussion?
Thornberry/I am going to be voting against the increase because I feel it is a big
difference between the two and Karin explained the reason for the difference
because we have a body and they have got a person and we have got more people
involved and they have one person that looks at it. I just feel the bigger the
govemment the more it costs and we don't need to be perhaps as we are. It costs
you just to apply and very seldom she said do they get the variance.
Kubby/This is a different thing.
Thomberry/Anything, any application fee is going to be increased, is that correct on this
ordinance? In this resolution?
Lehman/$25 per item which it has been eight years.
Thornberry/I don't care. I think it is too high as it is.
Franklin/Just as a recollection as to why we are doing this now. We went through a
discussion with the council about doing extra notification at the request of
neighborhood associations and neighborhood council. Doing extra notification to
the public in terms of mailings, signage and so forth when each of the applications
come in and at that time we talked about raising the fees as a consequence of that.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#5h Page 13
These fees do not cover the cost of processing the applications as I am sure they
do not in Coralville. The decision has just been made in Coralville to have those
fees much lower.
Norton/Also I think it is worth noting that that wouldn't be my basis of comparison. If
you were going to look at cities that have some of the characteristics that you
would like to emulate and exactly how that process goes and what happens in the
review, you want to look at a lot of details before you just think those fees are out
of line. So I am going to go along with them.
Thornberry/I think they are too high to begin with.
Norton/Well, we need a more careful analysis to justify that conclusion in my
judgement.
Lehman/Not having had a more careful analysis, we will have a roll call- (yes;
Thornberry & Champion- no). Motion carded.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#7 Page 14
ITEM NO.7 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 9 OF THE CITY
CODE OF IOWA CITY ENTITLED "MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC," BY
AMENDING CHAPTER 4, ADDING SECTION 1C THEREIN TO PROVIDE
FOR ADDITIONAL ENFORCEMENT ABILITIES FOR PARKING
VIOLATIONS. (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
Lehman/(Reads agenda). Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Vanderhoef (2"d
consideration and vote waived). Discussion.
Kubby/Why are we collapsing this?
Thornberry/Why not?
Champion/Why?
Thornberry/Why not, if we are going to do it, why do we need another reading? Why do
we need a third reading?
Kubby/Because that is what the State law says.
Champion/I just want there to be a valid reason to collapse it.
Thornberry/Well, I made the motion so you can vote against or for it.
Lehman/Roll call- (yes; Champion, Kubby, Norton-no). Motion failed.
Kubby/You need six votes to collapse, that is why.
Lehman/Do we have a motion to approve? Second consideration by Thornberry,
seconded by Kubby. Discussion.
Champion/This is another ordinance that I simply don't like. I think we ought to find
ways to prevent people from getting parking tickets instead of finding ways to
give them more parking tickets. And again I will say is that I think it affects a
very specific population in town and I frankly just don't like it.
Thornberry/Connie, I totally agree with you and I think the people who get the parking
tickets should take it upon themselves to not park where they are not suppose to
so they don't get the parking tickets. I think one needs to be responsible for their
own behavior and when they park in places where they should not be parking,
then they deserve to get a ticket.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#7 Page 15
Champion/Well I am not against giving parking tickets. I think because of the alternate
day parking, it becomes a problem for people who live in apartments in that area.
If you have one side of the street designated for parking, no, then it is easy to park
legally. I think this is a prejudicial ordinance and I just don't like it. I am going to
vote against it.
Thornberry/We have several areas in town- I am not going to change your mind. I am
just saying we have several streets in town where there is alternate parking and
there are many streets that do not have alternate parking. The areas that have
alternate parking, I can see the reason for that being snow removal, cleaning, and
the elimination of the storage problem. So I totally agree that they need to follow
the rules or find a place to park off of the street.
Champion/I think there are also streets in town that are arterial streets that have parking
on one side and some how they seem to get clean and snow removal done.
Thornberry/They do have those moved especially like Dodge Street. For example, they
will put up the signs for cleaning and they will put up the signs for snow removal
and they do have to move their cars or they are towed.
Champion/Right.
Vanderhoef/For me there is just a little added in here that is a safety issue as far as I am
concemed and that is the parking in the alleys and the fire zones. So I am real
clear that I want to get those.
Champion/I agree with that.
Vanderhoef/I thought you probably would but I want to be clear that this is covering
more than just street parking.
Lehman/I think for the public's information, what this really says is that if you receive a
ticket for being parked illegally, it does not mean you are going to park the rest of
the say on that $5 ticket. You may return and find that you have been ticketed
every two hours for the balance of the day. So I think it does correct problems in
areas other than just alternate parking streets.
Norton/It just invites ignoring the law at the moment.
Lehman/That is correct, it is cheaper sometimes to get a $5 ticket and park all day than it
is to move the vehicle. Roll call- (yes; Champion°no). Motion carded.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#8 Page 16
ITEM NO. 8 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION REPEALING RESOLUTION 96-264
AND ESTABLISHING THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AS A STAFF
COMMITTEE.
Lehman/(Reads agenda). Last night at our informal meeting, time ran a little bit late. We
decided we would defer this until the next meeting which would be September 22.
Moved by Norton, seconded by Kubby. All in favor-
Thomberry/Discussion?
Lehman/I would like to discuss it except I visited with our esteemed legal counsel and
she indicated that we did tell the public last night it would be deferred and
because we have said that, we would best be advised not to discuss it tonight and I
certainly would accept that advice.
Kubby/The other thing the reason I would like to defer and would like to direct the
Design Review Committee- We didn't hear from the Design Review Committee.
So when we do hear this in two weeks, in our packet before I would like to hear
how the Design Review Committee feels about this and from staff maybe how
some of the work that they have projected themselves to do would get done in
terms of the Southside specifically because there are some big jobs that they have
slated for themselves as a committee and I just want to understand how that work
would get done and to hear feedback from the committee because we haven't
heard and it doesn't seem right to kind of disband the committee and not hear
from them. So I would like those kinds of information before our next meeting.
Lehman/I don't quite agree with you Karen. However that has been floating around for
the last two months. We haven't heard from them so my personal feeling is that
they can't be terribly interested or we would have heard from them by now.
Kubby/I would like them to hear that council would like to hear from them and-
Vanderhoef/What work are you referring to on the Southside?
Kubby/On the Southside they were going to divide it up into different areas to have
certain kind of design guidelines for various areas south of Burlington Street.
Vanderhoef/Was that a council directive?
Lehman/I suggest that we do not discuss that now and we just wait for two weeks.
Norton/I just want to second the reasons for deferring because I think we need to clarify
exactly how this is going to proceed because I wouldn't want to lose the whole
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#8 Page 17
spirit even if the committee has to be changed. I wouldn't want to lose the whole
spirit of Design Review and see how we are going to make sure that some of these
matters are attended to in a reasonable way.
Karr/Mr. Mayor, we did receive late this aRemoon a fax that you will be receiving in
your next packet.
Lehman/For the next meeting.
Karr/For the next meeting.
Lehman/All in favor of deferral- (ayes). Opposed. Item carried.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#9 Page 18
ITEM NO. 9 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING APPLICATION OF
NATIONAL COMPUTER SYSTEMS FOR THE PURPOSE OF RECEIVING
BENEFITS UNDER CHAPTER 15, PART 13, ENTITLED "NEW JOBS AND
INCOME ACT," OF THE CODE OF IOWA, FOR IMPROVEMENTS IN THE
CITY IOWA CITY, JOHNSON COUNTY, IOWA
Lehman/(Reads agenda). We received tonight a handout which is apparently with a typo
correction or something on it.
Karr/Yes, there was a typo. David mentioned that to you last evening.
Lehman/Yes and we all have copies. Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Vanderhoef.
Discussion.
Kubby/Wait, I am sorry, I am confused. Okay. Yeah, I have some discussion. I was
really prepared last night to vote for this because the jobs are- Many of the jobs at
NCS tend to be seasonal and the jobs created in this specific proposal are to be
non-seasonal, full time, permanent positions with benefits and wages that are
above the poverty scale and meet our guidelines. And I had thought that our
guidelines stated that the jobs created from the proposal that at least 90% of them
should fall above the federal poverty line. But our guidelines don't say that. They
say that all the jobs in the company, that 90% of them should be above the
poverty line, wages that put people above the poverty line and they fall 18% short
of that goal. I know that the guidelines are flexible but for me the wage issue is
one of the cornerstones and most important part of the guidelines for me. And so
because our guidelines are written such that we look at the whole company
because we are benefiting the whole company with the tax abatement, I feel like
the integrity of the guidelines would be denigrated. But I do appreciate the non-
seasonal full time nature of the jobs being created by this specific proposal.
Actually in reading their stuff, there are two things and really kind of a challenge
to the city as well as a challenge to NCS, two issues that were brought up through
the application process. One is about providing childcare to employees and one
about definition of family in terms of especially things like funeral leave that are
pretty restrictive in the NCS Company culture that I hope that they would expend
on in the future. Those have nothing to do with the proposal, that is just an aside.
But- So I don't feel like I can support this because it doesn't follow for me what is
the most important parts of our guidelines.
Norton/Do the guidelines, Karen, take account of the fact that a fair number of the jobs
out there are part time and seasonal? Your expecting all of those jobs, even
though they are part time, to still come up to that level, the higher level, even the
part time jobs?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#9 Page 19
Kubby/To me that is an important guideline and I want the companies who get public
assistance from the city to meet that particular guideline. That is a crucial one.
Thomberry/I feel at NCS, Iowa City is a very good company, they employ a lot of
people. They may or may not be able to hire the people and keep them at the wage
that they anticipate and regardless, they are providing jobs for those that don't
have jobs. They are providing a lot of things and they are a super company and I
am 1000% in favor of them getting this.
Norton/I am suggesting is that if what you are bringing up Karen would leave me to go
back and think over again our guidelines and maybe we ought to review those
because it seems to me that this was a very virtuous proposal and doing some
good things and I hate to see us lose even your vote for a reason. Maybe we need
to look at those guidelines again and make sure they are not too restrictive.
Champion/I am wondering if the guideline doesn't take into account that a lot of workers
are not fulltime. I doubt if there are a lot of people at this company working full
time that aren't making money above the poverty level.
Kubby/Maybe you can clarify something. It is not so much that the- It is the wage rate,
that if worked full time would put someone at or above the poverty level, not that
an individual worker who is working 105 hours a week. So it is the wage rates
and so it doesn't matter that they are actually with our guidelines if there is a lot
of temporary part time folks. Our guidelines don't speak to that in the one that I
am talking about. It is talking about the wage rate.
Franklin/And that was purposeful on the part of the committee that put the guidelines
together because there was quite a bit of discussion about seasonal temporary
workers versus full time permanent workers. In fact, one of the earlier guidelines
that you can get higher ranking under the quality of jobs to be created focused on
full time long term non-seasonal positions. But the other thing that I would say is
that when these guidelines were developed and put together and brought before
the council and adopted, the committee intended, as you indicated Karen, that
they be used as guidelines with some flexibility and I think in our evaluation of
this, we were cognizant of the fact that it did not meet the strict requirement of the
poverty level and the wage but that the virtues of the company, as you have
described it, Dee, overrode, if that is a word, compensated for the fact that the
poverty wage rate was not met to the letter of the guideline and that is a
judgement that we made as a staff in recommending this and a judgement that you
make as you vote.
Vanderhoef/One of the other things that comes up for me that this company does and
dedicates money and time to is their educational process and in every job there is
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#9 Page 20
something that you leam and have opportunities to move up and in this company
has been very proactive in education of the workers which means that worker
have that opportunity to get into the workforce, number one, and number two, to
move up with further education on the job while they are being paid. This is a real
positive thing for the company and the community and for people who are sitting
out there who are trying to get back into the labor force.
Thomberry/Karin, just for the public's edification, the poverty level wage rate for the
City of Iowa City is what?
Franklin/It is a county wage rate. It is $7.73 an hour, anything under that.
Thomberry/So anything less than $7.73 an hour Karen would not like to have a company
in town getting any benefits from. Is that not correct?
Kubby/I would not want to give them public assistance.
Thomberry/$7.73, I am sorry, I will take them. NCS is a super company and I will take
20 more just like them if they could be as good as NCS.
Kubby/I am not knocking the company. I am saying I don't want to give them public
assistance in this form.
Thornberry/You are knocking the company because you don't like their policies on
wages.
Kubby/Yeah.
Lehman/Just a couple of comments. They are talking about the intention of investing
$10,400,000 in their property out here on the north side of I-80. During the ten
years that they will receive tax abatement, they will be paying $406,000 worth of
taxes on that improvement that they are doing within the community. They will be
saving or we will be abating $320,000. I think for an investment of $320- that we
don't have, getting back $406,000 is a significant return. They are an excellent
member of the community. Their people are active in the community. They are
active in civic affairs. I am really proud that they are interested in expanding in
Iowa City. They love Iowa City. They would like to stay here and I would like to
have us show them they we are glad that they are here and we are willing to show
them- By approving their application we also entitled them to receive tax credits
and whatever from the State of Iowa which are rather significant when compared
with the paltry that they are asking us to do.
Thornberry/And without it they can't even apply.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#9 Page 21
Lehman/Without that they cannot apply to the state.
Kubby/They have also stated that without the commitment from the city and without the
state money they have not said they would not do their expansion and Dean, I do
agree with you, I am knocking the company about having 28% of their workforce
being at a wage rate that is below the poverty line. You are correct. I do stand
corrected on that.
Thornberry/You would knock a whole lot of companies in Iowa City then.
Kubby/I would not offer them public assistance, that is correct, on that basis.
Thornberry/How many do you employ above the- How many people do you employ
above the poverty wage rate, Karen?
Kubby/I don't employ anybody.
Thornberry/Thank you.
Lehman/Roll call-
Kubby/I don't think that is relevant.
Thornberry/How much taxes did you pay?
Dilkes/(Roll call).
Lehman/Motion carries.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#10 Page 22
ITEM NO. 10 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
ARCHITECTURAL CONTRACT AND AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND
CITY CLERK TO ATTEST CONTRACT FOR ARCHITECTURAL SERVICES
FOR THE IOWA CITY LANDFILL SCALE HOUSE AND RECYCLE CENTER.
Lehman/(Reads agenda). We discussed this briefly last night. I think we decided we
would like as little more input on it and for that reason I would like a motion to
defer. Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Norton.
Kubby/When are we deferring this to? Indefinitely? September 22?
Thornberry/If they have the time to do it, I guess.
Lehman/Is September 22 a reasonable time, Steve?
Kubby/I mean you are doing the financial things for the parking-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-102 SIDE 1
Lehman/Defer to September 22. All in favor-(ayes). Opposed. Motion carried.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#12 Page 23
ITEM NO. 12 CONSIDER MOTION GRANTING A 45 DAY EXTENSION TO
THE POLICE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD FOR THE FILING OF REPORTS
WITH THE CITY COUNCIL ON COMPLAINTS #98-11, #98-14, AND #98-16.
Lehman/(Reads agenda). Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Kubby. Discussion?
Kubby/The extension being asked for because the Police Citizen Review Board asked
for some additional information from the Police Department and they need some
time to have that information gathered and then to review it.
Champion/Are our time lines too narrow in the first place?
Thornberry/I think it depends on the incident.
Kubby/Well, they ask for more information in this case and so- in these cases. Right?
Lehman/I would suspect that we will probably be receiving from them their first annual
report to council. This time they may address the timeframe.
Norton/In general.
Lehman/In fact we are going to with some regularity experience requests for extensions
there may well be a request from them. As for now, they haven't requested only
these specific ones.
Thornberry/Well both the Police Citizen Review Board and the police department on
certain things need more time apparently so-
Lehman/That may come up in the report.
Norton/That will be in the-
Kubby/I know this is an aside. I hope this is okay, but the first annual report is going to
be kind of a big deal. I mean we're going to be anxious to hear the feedback. The
community's probably going to be anxious. Is it just going to be like in our packet
or is it going to be presented to us in any way that the public could come?
Thornberry/This is another board.
Kubby/I think it is another board but it is the first year and the first report from them and
that's something that will have heightened community interest. It may be warrants
a different kind of reporting mechanism the first year anyway. That' s just a
thought. I could talk to the board about it. I'll talk to the board about it.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#12 Page 24
Thornberry/Well you could talk to us about it too. Just because the board wants to-
Norton/We get a lot of reports like that, the fire department and all the rest of them. My-
they're very interesting reports. I know they don't- any of them get as much
perhaps as much publicity as they might.
Lehman/All in favor of the motion (ayes). Opposed. Motion carded.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#14 Page 25
ITEM NO. 14 CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS
Lehman/(Reads agenda item)Last night the consensus was that Linda Shope be
appointed. Do we have a motion to that effect? Moved by Norton, seconded by
O'Donnell. (ayes) motion carries.
Dan Coleman/I've applied for reappointment to the Housing and Community
Development Commission and I have a prepared statement that I'd like to read to
you this evening. I'm here tonight seeking an explanation of why I'm not being
reappointed to the Housing and Community Development Commission. As
background let me offer the following. One, I was appointed to the commission
last winter as a newcomer to Iowa City based on my experience with affordable
housing in my previous place of residence. I was the only eligible candidate for
the single seat open at that time. Two, since then I've come up to speed with the
work of HCDC. I've been a hard working and productive member of the
commission. Three, I've received positive feedback for my work on the
commission from agency staff, city staff, and the commission chair. Four, I voted
with the majority of the commission on all commission matters. The council has
not overturned HCDC recommendation in the time I have been on the
commission. Five, it is my understanding that reappointments are generally
routine unless there has been a problem in the person's performance on the
commission or there is a need to achieve some requirement of representation. The
above points indicate that the former is not the case and the fact that I am
currently the only candidate for what are now three open seats shows that the
latter could not be the case. There are several statements that were made at the
August 25 council meeting that I feel require clarification. One, Connie
Champion said that she didn't support me because of political disagreements. I
respect her honesty and openness in saying this but I would like to know what
action have I taken or opinion have I expressed on HCDC matters that you
disagree with so strongly as to deny this reappointment. Miss Champion also says
that I am quote not the best person for the job.
Champion/No I did not say that.
Coleman/It's on the tape.
Champion/Well I didn't mean to say that.
Coleman/Okay. All right then I will-
Champion/I must have meant something else but I'll just interrupt you because you're
talking about me specifically and I've already told several people that I intend to
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#14 Page 26
contact you and talk about why I did not- was not willing to appoint you and also
that I was not unwilling to reconsider my decision.
Coleman/Okay so we'll talk later then?
Champion/Um-huh.
Coleman/Okay. Thank you. Then on to the second point which is that several councilors
said that they wanted a larger pool of candidates yet this is belied by the fact that
Gretchen Schmuch was re-appointed on the 25th under the identical circumstances
that my reappointment was denied.
Thornberry/I'll interrupt you on this point. I said that I would like to have at least two
applicants per position. I did not vote in favor. It takes four votes to put someone
on a commission. I did not vote to put her on the commission because I did not
have more than one person for that position. And I'm the only one that said that I
could not vote for one person for one position because this in a democracy I want
a choice. And without a choice I'm not going to- I don't care if you're the best
person in the world for that position if you have no opposition I'm not going to
vote for you.
Coleman/So you didn't vote for either of us?
Thornberry/I didn't vote against you. I just didn't vote for you.
Coleman/And you didn't vote for Gretchen either.
Thornberry/I did not.
Lehman/Three people did not vote for her.
Kubby/There was a 7-0 vote at the formal council meeting to appoint her.
Thornberry/I did not. I did not.
Kubby/Well maybe we- well the record will- It was a 7-0 vote. It may have been at the
informal but at the meeting where you voted it was a 7-0 vote to reappoint
Gretchen to HCDC.
Lehman/And that Karen as you well know is pretty customary. Whether or there's a split
vote or not at a work session and I do not recall ever having less than a majority
vote at the formal meeting.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#14 Page 27
Kubby/I have- I know I have voted no sometimes on this.
Lehman/Very rarely do we have anything other than a majority vote at the formal
whether or not it was majority at the informal.
Thornberry/But I may not have voted for you anyway.
Kubby/But if it was the principle then the principle stands at the formal meeting.
Thornberry/I didn't vote for her and I didn't vote for you. And just because if there were
two people vying for the position that you are seeking I'm not saying that you got
my vote.
Kubby/Maybe in the future then we can take out those appointments that only have one
candidate so you can vote on that principle of democracy you're talking about and
can vote no.
Thomberry/That's what I did.
Kubby/No. I'm talking about at the formal meeting.
Thornberry/Okay.
Kubby/Because that's where the votes are counted and reported.
Thornberry/(Can't hear) several times.
Coleman/Okay can I continue here?
Lehman/Please.
Coleman/Mr. Lehman said on the 25th that quote "those who support Gretchen are
comfortable with her which I believe implies that they were uncomfortable with
me." I feel I have a right as a citizen who has volunteered my time in service to
the community to know the reason for that discomfort. Also at the August 25th
meeting Mayor Lehman said that it is quote "a poor idea to discuss the pros and
cons of applicants publicly." While I appreciate the mayor's sensitivity, I am here
tonight to ask to be informed of what those pros and particularly those cons are.
People who saw the meeting on the 25th who I've spoken to came away from it
with the belief that I've done something wrong as a HCDC member. It is only fair
that the councilors who opposed my reappointment state their reason for so doing,
not just to clarify this particular instance, but so that all citizens can understand
the criteria being used for commission reappointments.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#14 Page 28
I'll appreciate any response in terms of information.
Thornberry/I would respond to you at a later date on that point.
Coleman/Any other?
Lehman/I think you expressed yourself well Dan.
Champion/Thank you.
Kubby/I guess one of the ironies for me here is that we have two openings. We had three
openings last time. We had two applicants. We have two openings this time. We
have one applicant. We have a qualified applicant who is an experienced
applicant. And we don't have more people applying and we don't have enough
people applying but we're not going to appoint the person who has applied. That
just seems kind of silly to me in terms of good process and typically we've had a
policy that people are re-appointed unless they have not served the conununity
well as a commission member or board member or if they have served for a very
long time and there has been lots of applicants. More applicants than openings
and that we want to give someone else a chance to serve. And I like that policy
and have voted for people that I disagree with politically because they're serving
the community well. Because that kind of political diversity is important on our
boards especially the Housing and Community Development Commission to have
a broad spectrum of people with different areas of expertise on the board. And we
lost through a conflict of interest Charlie Eastham on that board who was a very
good person on housing issues and kind of replaced him in my mind with another
lay person who has good expertise in housing and community development issues
and I regret that we have not re-appointed Dan to this time- at this time and hope
that council will see fit to reappoint him in October as he well deserves to be.
Norton/Yeah I think it's a- Dean's perfectly free to adopt whatever criteria he wants for
when he votes but it's certainly not a custom on the council nor does it say
anywhere that we have to have more than one applicant. And many many times in
the past we've chosen the person who was before us assuming they were
reasonably qualified though I too think there's no real good reason not to make
this appoint or this reappointment really as has been our custom.
Steve Kanner/I'm a little confused and I would appreciate some clarification. There's
one person who 's saying there was a vote 7-0 to appoint one person who was
unopposed. And then there's another person, Councilor Dean Thornberry, that's
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#14 Page 29
saying he didn't vote. And I was wondering if the clerk could read the record. It's
a little, in my mind, it's- I'm not sure what happened exactly.
Lehman/Let me clear- I think at the informal meeting there were four people who
indicated support for the two candidates. One of those four people withdrew their
support and as is normally the case we had a unanimous vote for the appointment
vote for the appointment at the formal meeting.
Kanner/In my mind as a citizen what counts for me is what you do in the formal
meeting, to me that's where law is made, and so in my mind it appears that you
did vote, Dean, for who is unopposed, that you had a chance if you had a principle
to vote against that person, and also I question, it seems to me that a lot of these
commissions over the years, there is only person running, and I don't know
you're record or anyone else's record, but I would venture to guess that again,
there are people that were approved by you that were unopposed.
Thornberry/I'm not going to argue with you so...
Kubby/But you're just saying that in the future that' s your policy.
Thornberry/It takes two to argue, and I'm not going to argue with you in this forum so...
Kanner/Okay.
Thornberry/You're on your own.
Kubby/But Dean, you have stated that your personal policy will be in the future.
Thornberry/I'm not going to argue with you.
Kubby/I know, I'm just trying to clarify what you said. I'm not arguing, I am not being
argumentative, I just what to clarify what you stated.
Thornberry/What I stated at the work session the other night, and I stated it before. Is
that not correct?
Kubby/Well, there seems to be some confusion so you can choose to clarify it or not.
Norton/It's my understanding is it's a recent development, but let's-
Thornberry/That's correct.
(All talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#14 Page 30
Kubby/I think spurred by an individual, myself but-
Norton/I understand, that's all. I just want to be sure.
Thomberry/You got a right to change your mind, so does he, so...
Norton/You are free to take whatever position you wish. I agree, I just think we're
making a mistake not to pursue with his appointment, but let's go ahead.
Thomberry/I'm not.
Champion/We'll get in contact with you, and we'll discuss the issue.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 31
ITEM NO. 15 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION
Lehman/City Council Information. Who would like to be first?
Norton/I've got several, I'll try to pair this list down. First of all, I wondered what this
has to do with commission business again. There's been a couple of commissions
where there's some absences that kind ofconcem me. Is that being tallied and
pursued? Because I think that we have some guide lines about repeated absences,
and as everybody knows, we need all the help we can get, so...
Karr/I can pull out that memo and remind everyone.
Norton/Okay, thank-you. We had a letter, a bunch of concerns out there Walden Hills, a
long list of concems. I assume someone's responding to the concerns.
Atkins/Yes, yes, yes.
Norton/Have you got that? Dale you want to bring us up to date?
Helling/I really don't have anything to bring you up to date. At this point there' s a lot of
issues in there and what we've done is met, and we're in the process of pulling
that together. I hope to have a response yet this week or early next week put
together.
Norton/For those who are listening, I'd say it has to do with a patch of land, I thought
was quite beautiful. We're going to plant a prairie, and it's turning out to create
perhaps as many problems as it saved. Critters coming out of there, one thing and
another, so...and weeds flying in other people's yards, and trees falling down, and
they are not being picked up, so I hope we can work out some- The person just
went right around the circle, and they had a problem in every direction of the
compass, I think. But I'm sure we can- The other one I want is a letter from Jim
Larew about the Science Center, and I didn't know just what we were to do with
that, but it reminds me that it needed to be put back in our hopper as we talk about
the north airport area.
Atkins/I think so. I think the way I read that, is I think that Jim is seeking some sort of
confirmation that in fact some land has been set aside and the design, I'm
assuming that it's still our intent to provide or accommodate a piece of property
for them.
Lehman/That's Airport Commission decision, is it not?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 32
Atkins/No, I was going to say, my understanding is that the commission is supportive of
having them, but I do recall something to the effect that they were going to wait
four or five years, and if you don't put it together, Science Center, that they would
feel relieved of their responsibility, and they can go ahead and sell that property
or lease their property.
Vanderhoef/The Imax possibility has been sitting there for sometime as I understand it,
from visiting with Jim and I wondered how this was all tying in, and I had on the
question for tonight, is have we heard back from Iowa Jet Service so we know
where the road and that kind of stuff is...
Atkins/Yeah, I have on my desk a document that I got from Rick Mascari which
basically indicate that things weren't going so well. Then Emie received a copy of
the fax, just yesterday, which I have not read yet, from Iowa Jet Services saying
that things are fine, and then in today's mail I received a check for a hundred
dollars, and I have not read all of that. So I've got three pieces of correspondence
that I haven't put all together.
Vanderhoef/It's too early, but something's happening.
Atkins/I'll get back to you in a couple days.
Lehman/Just briefly, to my knowledge, the airport commission and we as a council have
done everything that we have been asked to do in cooperation with this proposed
development. We have sited the street, we know where it's going to be. The ball
is in his court, I believe he is moving forward, I believe as of today he had a
contractor in looking at the site, or the proposed building, so, we are doing all that
we can do, airport commission is doing all they can do, and I think that Iowa Jet is
also, so it appears things are moving forward.
Vanderhoef/That's real positive for me to hear, I thought that was the case, and with this
being in place with the siting of the road, then I suspect some moving forward on
the Science Center.
Lehman/I need to contact the airport to make sure.
Atkins/I think in direct response, I think that Jim Larew deserves a letter saying, here are
the circumstances, here's our commitment, here's the time frame built around it,
so that he can do his planning in accordance with that. Ifit's okay with you, I will
just meet with the airport commission and work that through.
Norton/The one thing I never see in that whole process is the reality of M-O-N-E-Y, and
I don't know whether we're going to do this with mirrors, that's kind of.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 33
Atkins/I'm unaware of whether the commission is giving the land-or are they going to
lease the land?
Lehman/I don't think that's true, but I think that most of these are probably...until the
time that they, I think, negotiate a contract and we have an opportunity to see it, I
would assume that like many contracts many of these things are confidential until
they go through.
Norton/Yeah. Okay.
Lehman/And then we'll see the final product, and then we can- I'm not even sure we can
approve or deny it. I think that's the airforce commission and Iowa Jet.
Atkins/I was still talking about of the Science Center.
Lehman/We've been talking about it.
Norton/And talking about the Science Center, in that what that what...
Lehman/In their end, I think that that's between them and the airport folks.
Norton/The last think I did want to call your attention to, the little note in the Park and
Recreation, from A1 Stroh's visit to Boulder, where he is saw-lighted skate board
park with fence and one thing or another. I assume that the seed has been sowed,
and the Parks and Rec. Department, and I don't know how ours is working out,
but it's becoming a very popular activity in a lot of places and is probably going
to have to be dealt with in a few years.
Kubby/Terry Trueblood is investigating some equipment, that is actually on the
expensive side, but it's something that's very long lasting, it's a material that
won't get beat up so we won't have to do a lot of maintenance and replacement,
so the initial high end investment maybe worth while, but he is investigating some
stuff.
Norton/I know they're having a lot of fun in the bank parking lot on the weekends.
Champion/And also the parking ramp.
Norton/Well, I drove down the street, and drove right over a skateboard that had flown
into the street.
Lehman/You did?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 34
Norton/Yeah. Fortunately I didn't blow a tire or break the skateboard but it was a little
bit surprising. All right.
Kubby/Maybe we need to elect a skateboarder before we're going to get a skateboard-
Norton/But this was rollerblades and skateboards both again, yeah. Okay.
Lehman/Dee Vanderhoef.
Vanderhoef/One announcement since it's the start of the school year. Just to remind
everyone in the public that we do have semester passes that you can purchase at a
considerable savings in case you are going to be a regular bus user. We would
have that available to you. I guess we're headed into discussions about several
major roads, arterials, highways, whatever. And I'd like to have some information
that maybe staff could do for us as a council that tells us about highways and
arterials, how they go about their planning and what kind of expectations we
might have, what standards might be placed on each of these.
Atkins/I don't see why not.
Kubby/I'm not clear what you mean.
Norton/I'm not either.
Vanderhoef/I'm looking for the standard kind of planning and the things that go into
planning for a large area and for a length of time more than today and tomorrow
type thing. And there seems to be in every discussion that we have about streets
and roads and traffic and what they will handle and speeds and so forth, it all goes
down to what is expected of certain streets, kind of streets and roads and
highways and so forth. So what I'm calling it is Road Development: 101 or Street
Planning: 101.
Kubby/Oh you mean what the difference is like between arterial and collector?
Vanderhoef/What all the expenses are and you know not specific to any road at all. Just
in planning for the city.
Kubby/It could be a good part of our CIP.
Atkins/Under my time I'm going to suggest that you bring your calendars next time
because we do have to schedule our CIP meeting, so just be thinking about that.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 35
When you say Arterial Street: 101 I think I can give you definitions. I can't. I can
have someone on staff.' arterial, collector, residential.
Vanderhoef/Um-huh.
Atkins/But for planning purposes I think of volume of traffic, speed, spacing, one mile
apart, two miles apart. Is that?
Vanderhoef/That's the kind of thing that when they look at it.
Atkins/I'll have Jeff-
Vanderhoef/And what textbook is and then what-
Kubby/If we're going to take council time we should sure there are four people who
want to use council time in that way. I don't particularly feel the need to do that.
Norton/I guess I want to see that kind of deal but I'm very concerned because arterials
run through other places. And so what you might want a street to do with respect
to the outlying regions is not necessarily compatible with how you want it to
perform- suppose you live on it?
Vanderhoef/I understand that.
Norton/And I don't know whether that would be reflected..
Vanderhoef/I guess what we need to- what I'm asking for is to look at what the textbook
is and so we know where we deviate from that as we do our own planning as a
council which becomes a political situation.
Norton/We could jump on the web site. Type in highway and you'll probably get more
than you want.
Vanderhoef/I want this all to be on the same page.
Norton/Okay.
Kubby/Are there four people who want to spend council time with that? I mean I don't
want to. There may be four and I'd be happy to come and I'm sure that I would
learn some things but I dare say I would tend to go to staff to say I want 20
minutes of your time to go over some of this.
Norton/Isn't it pretty easy for Jeff to get that together? I mean it must be available.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 36
Atkins/My instincts tell me it would be. I just don't know right now.
Norton/If it's more than about an hour, I wouldn't be interested.
Vanderhoef/No. I don't think it would be.
Champion/I wouldn't be interested in an hour.
Atkins/An hour worth of arterials.
Norton/No. To find the book. The handbook.
Vanderhoef/Just to get us all on the same page. I've not been involved in a major
planning of a major street or anything like that and I just-
Thornberry/Or do one on 965. That will be a-
Vanderhoef/965 is fine. We're looking at Gilbert Street. We're looking at Benton Street.
We're looking, you know, at some annexation. And further out.
Thomberry/So we are involved in-
Atkins/In your upcoming capital projects you'll deal with Captain Irish, Scott Boulevard,
First Avenue, 965. Those are all projects of some consequence. I suspect we can
roll in that discussion. Maybe we ought to make it a little more just informational
as we're discussing the projects as opposed to the, okay take notes.
Vanderhoef/However just so we all have that.
Atkins/I think we can work that out without being cumbersome to you.
Vanderhoef/Great. Then I should have asked this when we were talking about the
airport. I saw something in the minutes about the airport and the trail. Is there
something that the FAA says that we cannot put a trail on or near an airport?
Dilkes/No. I think the minutes you're referring to are when the sewer, the Willow Creek
sewer is going through the airport and we just wanted to memorialize that in a
document and have the Airport Commission approve that and put it of record in
case because they lease property and that kind of thing. We wanted it of record.
And they just wanted to be clear that we weren't talking about the trail at that
time. There are some FAA requirements that would or hurdles I think that we'd
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 37
have to step through to get the trail there. I don't think, it wouldn't prevent us
from doing it but it's something.
Vanderhoef/Yeah, I'm just curious you know in that clear zone or whatever where we
could or couldn't do something like that.
Dilkes/I think there are FAA hurdles we have to jump through. I don't know specifically
what they are. But it is people in the runway protection zones and I think they're
concerned about that.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Norton/We've gone around it.
Vanderhoef/Yeah. I just want some infonnation on that. And I believe that' s it.
Thornberry/We talked last night at length about the Gilbert Street corridor from
Kirkwood to Hwy 6 and south down the Sand Road, what we call the Sand Road,
I don't know. And that's an interesting on going discussion that the people need
to be aware that we are talking about an I wanted to bring just bring it up that we
are talking about that particular corridor area. And what can be done. What should
be done. I think with all of the choices that we had maybe some other choices
some other options need to be thought up. I wasn't real excited about any of them.
If we did anything it's going to hurt a lot of businesses and I'm not one to sit on
the council and do something with a road that's going to close any businesses, but
we're going to be talking about that section of Gilbert Street and wanted the
people to know that we are looking at it very very closely. There was a suggestion
brought up this evening of possibly relocating the Senior Center or a portion of it
or all of it or whatever to the Sycamore Mall area. There are several sites in the
Sycamore area that are available. For not just the Senior Center which might not
be a bad idea but I also think along the lines that Dee Norton said of keeping a-
having a facility downtown that people could interact with, maybe not on as
permanent basis as is now, but maybe as a place to come and go from not quite as
big or as permanent a building as the old Post Office building. And just a thought.
Gee it's just a wild idea that came up with up many many months ago about
putting maybe a branch library in that area with all of the parking available and
the location is close as it is to Kirkwood might not be a bad idea for a branch
library in that area. Something else to keep that area viable I think is really needed
and-
Norton/And we reached a consensus a long time ago Dean on this matter.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 38
Thornberry/A consensus yes but there's still that nagging concern that the facility is
there and my mom has trouble with parking ramps and it's nice to just pull up and
go into a library. But anyway that's another topic.
Lehman/It certainly is.
Thornberry/Just to keep that out there that it's still- and the Old Post Office Building, the
Senior Center, there are probably a lot of people who would not want to move
from there. But if it were relocated it would be a nice area perhaps for a what do
they call it the 64-1A that' s going to cost us billions of dollars that we're talking
about. The Cultural Center, the Art Cultural Center or whatever. That's not a bad
building to put an Art Cultural Center in.
Norton/Let's not reinvent the wheel here.
Thomberry/Mike. You're up.
O'Donnell/You finished?
Thomberry/You're up.
Lehman/No. He's never finished.
O'Donnell/I want to second Dean's concern on Gilbert Street. I'm not interested in
taking parking away from any business or restricting access to any business on
Gilbert Street. So far I'm not convinced that we have a work plan. Also we're
talking traffic calming on College Street. Steve, we have a new questionnaire
going out or survey.
Atkins/You've asked us to re-survey and that's correct.
O'Donnell/I want to encourage everybody to reply to that because we are going to make
a decision on College Street and this is your opportunity.
Norton/And Washington.
O'Donnell/That's all I have.
Lehman/Connie.
Champion/I've been to Gilbert Street several times the past couple days and frankly after
living in Chicago I don't see the problem. But I don't think we have to worry
about that road as much as we'd like because if we do what any of those
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 39
suggestions were last night we won't have any businesses down there to worry
about turning into. And you can have your six lane road to move traffic three
blocks to get someplace 30 seconds sooner.
Kubby/We got a letter in our packet from Rick Altman about a change in the yard waste
collection policy?
Atkins/That's been prepared and should be on its way to you. We had some-
Kubby/Okay because I don't recall that we discussed any changes.
Atkins/We did not.
Lehman/That's an administrative.
Atkins/He said- I think he directed it to me and then Chuck has prepared a response and
you'll be getting that hopefully in the next day or so.
Kubby/Because I want to make it convenient for people to get rid of their yard waste. As
convenient as we can make it.
Atkins/Well there's a variety- We explained to him what the options were and also the
concerns we have for our own employees toting around those rather large barrels
that were being placed at the curb.
Kubby/Was it a weight problem?
Atkins/If I recall-
Kubby/Because back injury is one of our biggest worker's comp issues and we want to-
Atkins/Absolutely. Particularly in refuse collection.
Kubby/One of the things on the consent calendar was and appeal that will be in from of
us for the Historic Preservation Commission, from an item from the historic
Preservation Commission on September 22. In a certain way, you know like I've
read through the all the minutes and kind of the story and the arguments and
everything and I guess I just wanted to see if other people feel prepared to hear
this appeal about the vinyl siding. I mean is there any other information?
Norton/It's an incredibly complicated story.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 40
Kubby/I've never heard an appeal like this so I'm just wondering if there's other
information that we might want to make this decision.
Norton/I don't know what to say. Drive around and look at some. I've kind of made up
my mind but I think from looking-
Lehman/I think you're right Dee.
Norton/And I do think it is a matter of looking and I think it's a matter of important
concerns about history. Who can tell the future? You can put wood on it and
cover it up with plastic. I don't know I find that extremely difficult. I'm not
looking forward to that discussion.
Kubby/So maybe part of my concern is I don't understand how it will work in front of us
in two weeks and that might help me think about it. So could you just walk us
through what will happen when we hear this appeal.
Dilkes/Well I think a couple of things. First of all the public hearing will be held on the
22nd'
Kubby/Oh. Okay.
Dilkes/I don't think you're obligated to make a decision at the time of the public hearing.
Lehman/Take information.
Dilkes/So I think there will be information I believe coming to you prior to the public
hearing but if there additional information that you want when you close the
public hearing I think we can get you that. You're obligated I believe under the
city code to make a decision within a reasonable amount of time. I don't think that
means you have to make it right after you close the public hearing.
Norton/So we have several weeks.
Kubby/Okay.
Champion/I have a legal question too. If people on the council decide to vote for
rezoning of Summit Street how is this person affected by delaying the
construction on his duplex? Isn't it a duplex he's trying to build? That will be
grandfathered in? Or-
Dilkes/That is another issue that setting of the p.h. on the rezoning kicks in a moratorium
but if there has been a building permit issued, which there has to him,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 41
construction is not stopped unless there has been no substantial construction and I
believe there has been. In fact, we talked to H.I.S. today and the benchmark we
use is 10% and they think they have got that done. That construction will proceed.
Kubby/They tried to time everything because they knew that- Okay, thank you. I guess
the only other thing I have for tonight is with the Department of Justice making a
determination about the Shaw case in terms of civil rights violations, it just kind
of brought back all the stuff that we had talked about and maybe kind of go
through some things and one of the things that I found that I don't feel like I have
done a very good job of following up on is that- About a little less than two years
ago we had requested our city attorney to put in a Freedom of Information Act
request to the Department of Criminal Justice for the State of Iowa to give us the
full BCI report from their investigation and so I ask Eleanor to kind of look into
that to see-just get a status report on that request.
Dilkes/I got your message today that you were going to ask me about that and I went
back and looked at the file since I wasn't sort of in charge of that at the time and
if you will recall, when Pat White released his decision not to prosecute Jeff
Gillaspie he released a packet of information, a fairly large packet of information,
about 33 pages. And that did include summaries of some of the DCI interviews.
Subsequent to that apparently there was some-there was additional requests for
the full DCI report. Pat White and I have got a letter in our file from Pat White to
the Attorney General's Office, State attorney General' s Office asking for their
opinion on whether the DCI report would be released in its entirety. The opinion
of the Attorney General was that it would not and that it was a confidential police
officer' s report under the Open Records Act. Thereafter in April, '97, I believe at
the council's direction, Linda Woito sent a letter to Tom Miller, the Attorney
General and asked him for release of the report in the event the Grand Jury chose
not to prosecute and there was not federal prosecution. I believe it was her
position that once there was no specter of criminal prosecution that that report
would be public. I don't necessarily share that view. I think it is a factor that
might be considered in a balancing but- And secondly, if the press reports are
correct, it is my understanding there may be an appeal to Janet Reno. That is sort
of the status of it. We never got a response to that letter although it was asking for
a report when and if there was no criminal prosecution. So I am not sure a
response was really called for and that is the status of it.
Kubby/So do you think the Attorney General' s Office keeps tracks of those kinds of
request. That once all of the legal remedies that the Shaw family have been
exhausted or dealt with in whatever manner they are dealt with, that they would
then go back and say oh, all those things have been done that can be done and we
are going to respond to this letter. I mean we probably need to-
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 42
Dilkes/I would be surprised if they have some kind of tickler system and I guess if the
council is interested in obtaining- is still interested in obtaining that BCI report,
then I would have to write the letter.
Lehman/Is there anyone on council who is interested in that report?
Kubby/Maybe I could give some rational as to why this is important to follow up on this
request that we had made as a council and I think part of it is because the Shaws
have stated publicly that they do not feel that justice has been done and there is
not very much that we can do at this point. But one of the things that we can do is
make sure that there is as much information as possible available as to what
happened and one of the ways to do that is to have the full DCI report and if that
is one little way that we can provide some comfort for that family after, in my
opinion, kind of batting some behavior on all of our part as a council at that time,
including myself. That if we can find some way of helping provide that little bit of
more information that might be in there, that I believe that we should attempt to
do that.
Norton/I would be in favor of asking for it. I don't know that we are going to get it even
then. Right?
Kubby/Right. I mean we don't have control of that decision but we have control over
whether we ask.
Norton/But if we get it, can we release it? What happens if we get it?
Thornberry/I don't think we need it. What do we need it for? I don't think you have
made your case that we need to ask for it again.
Norton/I don't see how it can hurt.
Thomberry/I don't see what it can help.
O'Donnell/I think you could ask for it as an individual.
Thornberry/I don't want to as a council to ask for it.
Kubby/What do other people think? Is there two people who would be interested? Two
people are not.
Lehman/I really really feel that this has been a long long process. It has been a very very
uncomfortable process. I think a tremendously difficult ordeal, not only for the
family but for the community. The last report that we received yesterday from the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 43
U.S. Attorney I guess, to me, is the final chapter and I think to continue to drag
this on to provide more opportunity to dig through things, to refresh memories
that are difficult for all of us is like rubbing salt in the wound. I think there has to
come closure and at this point in time, I see no purpose whatsoever of a positive
of asking for that report and I really do not favor asking for it.
Kubby/Maybe it is a lot easier for me to put closure on this than it is for the Shaw
family, I will tell you that.
Lehman/I don't question that for a heartbeat.
Kubby/And-
Lehman/I don't think we're doing them a favor. But what is the pleasure of the council?
Norton/Have they asked us to ask for it, Karen?
Kubby/No. I'm just following up on something that we had requested as a council.
Norton/I see no reason not to get it if it doesn't add anything, it doesn't add anything.
But I don't know what we can do with it. I'd like to know can we deal with it
when we get it?
O'Donnell/That's a good question. What would we do with it?
Lehman/What would you do with it?
Norton/That's what I'm asking.
Kubby/We can release it.
Norton/Besides read it.
Kubby/We can let people have access to it who want to have access to it.
Thomberry/I'm not interested.
O'Donnell/I'm not either.
Lehman/But Dee we've already had the Attorney General read it. We've had the county
attomey read it. We've had a grand jury go through it. The federal people have
through it. What do we expect to be able to do that they haven't done?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 44
Kubby/I'm not saying that we would do anything with it except make it available and
people who wanted to have access to it, it would become a public document.
Norton/Is the suggestion that we would more leverage-
Thornberry/If it were under the open records law why couldn't you ask as an individual
citizen?
Norton/Why can't they get it? Why can't anybody get it then?
Thornberry/Do it as an individual if you're that nosy.
Kubby/That's uncalled for, that attitude Dean.
Norton/Can anybody get?
Lehman/I don't know.
Thomberry/Not uncalled for.
Kubby/We haven't heard from two people and we have two people so I would like to
hear from the other two people.
Champion/I would have to think about this. I really would like the Shaw family to have
time to mourn and I don't think they've had time to mourn. And I wonder if this
just doesn't prolong the time that they can't mourn. And try to get on with their
lives as difficult as it must be. So fight off the cuff I'd say I don't know but I have
to think about whether that would be any help to them. Before I'd never heard
even heard about the document. So I just really have to think about it.
Kubby/Sure.
Dilkes/I feel like I have to make sure that you're all clear and maybe you are but that that
request can come from any member of the public too.
Kubby/Right. When we did it before we thought it was a more powerful request because
it came from local govemment and it came from all of us.
O'Donnell/I don't think we're any smarter than anybody else.
Lehman/Well the point is do we have four votes?
Vanderhoef/But things changed since that time.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 45
Lehman/It is available to- anyone can make that request.
Kubby/Right. I understand that.
Lehman/Or any organization is that correct?
Dilkes/That's correct.
Lehman/Do we wish as a council to make that request? I guess that's the question.
Kubby/It is obvious that there's not four people. So thank you for the discussion on that
and I don't have anything further.
Lehman/Well I've got a couple of things. Steve there was a letter to you in the packet
from P&Z Commission commending Anne Schulte for her work and I do think
it's worthy of our time to recognize that. Obviously that letter' s signed by every
member of the P&Z Commission. They're obviously very very pleased with this
gal and I think we should be very proud of her.
Norton/I think we should second that for all the minute takers. The Historic Preservation,
let me just read, set aside a couple of days. After you finish reading you'll think
they had a minute taker of some kind.
Vanderhoef/While we're doing this let's also give it to the transcribers.
Champion/Right.
Vanderhoef/The minutes. Because they do a powerfully good job for us and I appreciate
it.
O'Donnell/Just one thing. We have an anniversary today. I believe it's seven years or
thirteen years.
Lehman/37 years with my first wife.
Norton/All right.
0'Donnell/Did you remember?
Lehman/Yes. Oh, yes. Hard to forget. I've got a couple of other items before I go home
tonight to my bride.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 46
Norton/There you go.
Lehman/We discussed some time ago the possibility and at that time I think it might
have been a probability and I guess I'd like council's opinion. Do we still want a
meeting with the PATV Board? I think we had some discussion relative to some
things that were shown that were less than acceptable to a lot of the folks. My
personal opinion is that we have made ourselves pretty well known, our opinions
and I don't know if it would serve a purpose to have that meeting but if council
wishes to have the meeting with the PATV board, then I think we should schedule
it. If we wish to let things go along until such time as we feel it's necessary we
can do that too. So what's your pleasure?
Norton/Well I had assumed we were going to sit down and talk to them about their
procedures carefully and listen to their explanations and see ifthere's anything to
offer.
O'Donnell/My question Dee is will that accomplish anything. You attended the forum.
Norton/Yes.
O'Donnell / I think you saw that there was going to be and I believe there has been some
change.
Norton/In procedures. Yeah.
O'Donnell/I believe there' s been some change in their procedure on television. There' s
warnings that.
Norton/That may be sufficient. I think.
O'Donnell/I'm wondering if at this point in time what we accomplished?
Lehman/Well we can just let it go until such time as we feel there's need for a meeting.
I'm just following up on what ought to do.
Kubby/People who have questions about the guidelines or-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-102 SIDE 2
Norton/But we could ask them for it. They may have- If they are revising their
procedures, we will see a copy of their revised guidelines and if they made any
significant revisions they will send them to us.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 47
O'Donnell/Dee, they are not responsible for anything (can't hear).
Norton/I understand but they still have procedures.
O'Donnell/They are very clear.
Kubby/Right, that is the way the law is written.
O'Donnell/As long as they don't show things that I think are offensive because that is
my real big complaint about it.
Norton/They will.
Kubby/You bet.
O'Donnell/And I will do it.
Lehman/Well, that is fine. The point is do we want a meeting with that board?
Champion/No.
Lehman/I have a no.
(All talking).
Champion/I don't think it will accomplish anything.
Vanderhoef/Not unless- If they want to request it, I would be happy to meet with them.
Lehman/We had originally, I think, made the request anyway. At this point it sounds as
if we would just assume let things go until such time-
(All talking).
Norton/Considerable confusion.
Kubby/I think we understand what the laws are a little better from this and they have
made some adjustments and we are more knowledgeable about the guidelines. It
is a good thing.
Lehman/I think they understand where our position is. At the same time perhaps we may
have reached a common ground. So we really don't need a-
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 48
Norton/I am on another forum coming up with that and Rene and I will find out again
whether there is anything. There is still confusion about where they stand and we
stand and I will let you know.
Lehman/I guess this is for the public. Halloween is Saturday, the 31st. That will be the
night that all good council people will be out masquerading as council people.
That will be the night for Trick or Treats. We also, I believe it is in the Chamber
newsletter, there was a article about Eicher Florist who is celebrating 50 years in
Iowa City and there is one interesting little sentence here. Eicher Florist is ranked
in the top 250 of over 22,000 FTD florists nationwide. So I think it is very very
significant the business within our community. As you know two weeks ago
today, I met with the President of the University and we had what I consider to be
a very very good meeting.
Thomberry/She bought lunch?
Lehman/As a matter of fact, she did buy lunch. I was very very pleased. I have the
feeling that there is and will continue to be extremely good close working
relationship between the City of Iowa City and the University of Iowa and she
was a very very charming dedicated person and I feel that the best interests of
Iowa City is in her heart as well as serving the University and anyway- One of the
results of our meeting was we felt, both of us, that it would be beneficial to both
the University of Iowa and the City Council if we had opportunities to sit down
on a one and one sort of basis with Mary Sue and some of her folks with- And I
think we have decided we use three council persons at a time so that it does not
become an official meeting and we do not have to have, not that you are not
invited Marian because you are always welcome, but it would not be an official
meeting. It would not be covered by the Open Meetings law. I think there are
many times there are so many things that can be said privately more easily than
can be said publicly. But I am very very anxious for council to have the
opportunity to sit down with Mary Sue and she has given us three dates and I will
be attending each of those three meetings. They are September 22, October 15
and October 26. We need two other council persons for each of those three dates.
Norton/Repeat the dates one more time.
Lehman/September 22, October 15 and October 26.
Norton/What kind of days are those?
Atkins/What time of day, Ernie?
Lehman/These are 1:30 in the afternoon meetings at the Athletic Club.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 49
Champion/I can make it October 15.
Kubby/I don't like that location.
Lehman/I think we are the guests.
Kubby/I can do the 15th. WaS that a date?
Lehman/Karen for October 15.
Kubby/That was 1:307
(All talking).
Thornberry/September 15 is a Tuesday.
Karr/Mr. Mayor, that was a tentative schedule but I think we were going to talk about it
before-
Champion/Okay, forget it.
Lehman/You don't want us to sign up right now?
Karr/Perhaps not.
Lehman/Okay.
Karr/Just take notes and reserve those dates. The 26th has been penciled in. We need to
talk about that. The other two dates are 1:30. The other one may be adjusted to
earlier in the day.
Lehman/Marian, you have a very nice way of telling the Mayor that he doesn't know
what he is doing and I appreciate that.
Champion/When you are done, Emie, I have one more thing I want to talk about.
Lehman/I have one other thing which- We are early tonight, it has been a short agenda.
Whether or not we wish to discuss this, I guess it is up to council but I did bring it
up two weeks ago. And there was a letter in the packet this week to that affect. I
am somewhat concerned by the amount of time that is occasionally taken at
council meetings for public discussion and I am just concemed about those folks
who come down here with their attorneys, with the city staff folks and sit and wait
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 50
and wait and wait while folks who have obviously very important things they
would like to tell council go through their discussion. I would personally feel
more comfortable if we took the business that we have on the agenda no later than
a certain time, for example 8:00, and have the public which when they come to a
meeting they don't know whether or not they are going to speak at 7:00 or 7:15 or
7:30 or 8:00 or whatever. Allowing the public to speak for the first up until 8:00.
If there is further public discussion, have that occur at the end of the meeting.
Tonight, for example, that would have occurred at 9:15 or- Pardon me, 8:15 or
8:10. Is there any interest on the part of council in changing? It probably won't
be a big change. Most of the time we don't have public discussion.
Kubby/Although sometimes we have a lot of ceremonial things at the beginning and so
that would put the public at a double whammy disadvantage who don't have a
specific financial stake in things and so I think the 8:00 rule gets to become a
problem and becomes unfair because of our ceremonial choices to do awards and
things. That becomes a problem.
Thornberry/Karen, I think to alleviate that problem when they post the agenda that we
know how many proclamations and formal things there are going to be, just leave
15 or 20 minutes for public discussion. But I think we need to adhere as closely as
possible to the times for the different things. Like he said, an attorney sitting out
there for two hours waiting for the second item is rather expensive when you are
talking $150 an hour. So-
Kubby/I am fine with that.
Thornberry/And we have said we are going to talk about it at a certain time and then we
are-
Kubby/We don't have times on our formal agenda.
Thornberry/I think maybe if we have public discussion in the beginning for those that
need to take public transportation or whatever and then also have public
discussion later on in the agenda after some of the other items for those that didn't
get a chance in the earlier times I think is appropriate.
Kubby/But just to state that information correctly, at our formal agenda we do not have
times for agenda items as we do on our informal agendas. So there is no specific
expectation.
Thornberry/So you would rather not do both or just do it like we have been.
Kubby/I like it how we have-
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 51
Norton/It used to be the other way, public discussion was at the end.
Thornberry/I think what I said is that I want it in the beginning for those that need to take
public transportation and that sort of thing and then adhere to some kind of
schedule. I mean we have gotten out as late as after midnight some nights. And I
don't think that that is necessarily appropriate for those that have council waiting
and that they are paying staff time and everything else. So.
Norton/Well, I don't know, that is part of the game.
Thornberry/It is not a game to me.
Norton/In fact they are into their overhead because I think the public needs to be able to
get down here and get it done. I think Bnmo put it very well. We used to have it
later and it was Bruno Pigott in a letter. I thought his arguments were germane.
We had it later and we moved it early so the people could come down and get
right into it and I think holding to the limits of five minutes tightly, maybe even
tighter because most of the things we hear could be said in three. But I-
Lehman/I agree with you. One of the points that Bruno made in his letter, one that I
certainly agree with, is that obviously everyone would have an opportunity to
address council. But I think the folks who have gone through processes and
whatever for P/Z and other departments have every bit as much right to address
council as the public does.
Norton/But they could say come down at 8:30.
Lehman/By then we don't have anything on the agenda and we are through by 8:00. I
just- Very few times this occurs but as it has occurred and Dee, you sat on this
council and so have I. Those times that we have gone past 8:00, we have almost
always heard repetitive remarks from folks that were really not productive for
them or for us. Now those folks could still speak at the end of the meeting. I don't
have a problem with that. I just have a problem- We put city staff and frequently
we have a number of city staff folks who sit down here until 9:00 or 10:00 at
night, particularly on nights where we have gone for an hour to an hour and a half
with public discussion. They got to be back at work the next day at 8:00 along
with citizens who have work before council along with their legal counsel, if they
have them. I just think that it is a manner of courtesy to some of those folks, it
might be well- It is not that we are eliminating public discussion.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 52
Norton/And I understand your arguments but a person who comes down to try to get on
public discussion and it goes past 8:00 and they got to go back home or wait for
three hours to get back on?
Lehman/How about the person who comes down for P/Z item and has to get out by 9:00.
Vanderhoef/That is right.
Kubby/Well, they have something at stake financially and they can wait. They are going
to stick around where as-
Lehman/Well, I don't see why they should have to wait anymore than anybody else.
Vanderhoef/It would seem to me that we could do a compromise kind of activity on all
of this. I have been associated with large large group meetings where there were
rules that, for instance, in your time period that you are talking about, Ernie, that
you could say we will hear from 4 or 5 on the pro and 4 or 5 from the negative
during this early hour. We will hear all the rest of them at the end of the meeting
but that way we get some flavor of all of it in the early part of the meeting and we
can move on with the meeting as you suggest which I think is very very
appropriate because it is a courtesy to all of our citizens, not just to certain ones
that choose to come and speak.
Kubby/Well, whatever- If we make any changes, we have to have a resolution and a
formal vote. Is that correct, if we change? And I would hope that we would have
public discussion on changing when public discussion-
Lehman/Karen, you can depend on that.
O'Donnell/(Can't hear).
Kubby/No, because we would not have passed the resolution yet. I would disagree.
Champion/There are ways to do this. There are good healthy ways to have two open
discussion periods. A lot of organizations have two open discussions. A lot of
times the first open discussion deal with items of short duration like somebody
wanting to come and talk about a- I don't know, I can't think of it right now. But
large groups are scheduled at a later time unless they have designated
spokesperson who might be speaking for ten of them or five of them. I think it is
something that we should explore and maybe come up with some suggestions that
would not offend the public who I think should also have the right to come here
and speak to us at anytime. So there might be a way we can come to a
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 53
compromise that would make everybody happy and I agree, it would be nice that
staff shouldn't have to wait through all of that public discussion.
Norton/Many of them stay in their offices and don't come out until they have to. They
don't necessarily have to be out here or somebody brings a- You know, when I go
to the doctor at 1:45, I am supposed to see him at 3:00, I take a book along.
O'Donnell/I don't think this is very complicated at all. You have it on the agenda, public
discussion is over at 8:00. It makes it more efficient. I think it will.
Thomberry/They can still talk later on.
O'Donnell/They can still talk at the end of the agenda.
Norton/How will the person know?
Kubby/You know, it makes it sound like public discussion is so dreaded, is so you know-
Lehman/I think that is your take, Karen.
Champion/No, that is not fight.
Vanderhoef/I don't get that at all.
Norton/Ernie, couldn't there be certain- I don't understand how a person would know
when to come if they were under public discussion. How would they know they
are on before 8:00? They have to sit here and wait and then maybe they don't luck
out right at the hour.
Lehman/The same process that somebody goes through who comes down here with city
staff person or his attorney. He may be on at 7:20, it may be 9:30. He doesn't
know either. What is the difference?
Norton/Because I think the public is at least less liable than the-
Kubby/That is right. There are people who have to put kids to bed-
Vanderhoef/Dee, don't you think that the people who come here with an agenda item are
part of the public also?
Norton/Yes, they are.
Vanderhoef/Okay, then-
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 54
Norton/They are here with a particular point to make and they are going to get their
chance and I say they can come second to the public is my judgement.
O'Donnell/They are the public.
Vanderhoef/They are the public.
Norton/Not the same.
Vanderhoef/They have gone through all of the-
Norton/They are petitioners in some sense. They are not in the same sense in my
judgement. I give the public first shot.
Lehman/I would do the opposite.
Vanderhoef/I tend to disagree with you.
Lehman/I would give priority to those folks who have a business with the council.
Kubby/Wow. Wow.
Norton/Why not start them just-
Kubby/That is very elite attitude. Very elite government.
Lehman/There is a certain amount, a certain thing. There are some folks who absolutely-
When we get into the long meetings, I think there should be an opportunity for
public discussion at the beginning of the meeting. 90% of the time that will occur
before 8:00 and be over with. It will not- But for the few times that it didn't
happen, we would not have the problem of folks having to sit around sometimes
for a couple of hours.
Norton/Why can't we do this, try it this way and try the 8:00? Sometimes we know
there is going to be more than half an hour of public discussion. We can name the
times. We can pretty well predict. In that case just don't start the regular agenda
until 9:00.
Kubby/How about the people who want to change how it is could come up with a few
different suggestions? I mean, Emie has come up with one specific suggestion
and I think there are some problems with it. Connie has brought up another one.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 55
Dee Vanderhoef. Maybe we can put them down on paper and see what they look
like, what the pros and cons of them are.
Norton/If we could start the regular agenda at a later time on those occasions that we are
pretty dam sure public discussion if going to be long.
Lehman/We are frequently very surprised.
Norton/Well, occasionally.
Vanderhoef/And sometimes they come out well after we have published our agenda.
Champion/Let me just bring up one more point that Ernie just said. 90% of the time it is
not a problem. I mean are we going to change something that people like for 10%
of the time?
Kubby/That is a very good point.
Norton/That is a good point.
Vanderhoef/I don't think it will kick in, Connie, except in that 10%. I don't think
anybody will be aware of it.
Norton/I see.
Vanderhoef/So, yes we are looking at it in that 10% that you are talking about.
Kubby/And who gets to decide who speaks before.
Atkins/One thing I would like you to think about, Dee, there is a tail end of this. The
most frequently asked question on a council day in my office and I suspect
Marian's office is what time am I on. And that is usually from a petitioner. No not
from the staff, from the petitioner. Staff will be here. We will do out job.
Lehman/I think we have a certain obligation to those folks that we will take care of them.
They have gone through processes, they have taken their time, obviously in some
cases they have financial interests and other cases they don't. It is just a matter
that they have business with the City of Iowa City and I think that those folks
should be able to know when they are going to meet and not necessarily be put off
by someone who happens to walk in with something to visit with. I love visiting
with the public. I have no problem with that. I just think it is rude and
inconsiderate to those folks who have gone through the process to have to sit and
wait sometimes for a couple of hours for unplanned discussion. I have no problem
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#15 Page 56
with an allowance of time but I think beyond that, I don't think it is fair. That is
one opinion.
Vanderhoef/There has been many occasions that those people have come here out of a
courtesy to us to be available to ask questions if we have questions and sometimes
we do and sometimes we don't but they have sat here and waited and waited and
waited for that opportunity to.
Lehman/Well it has to be done by resolution. Are there four people who feel that we
would like to talk about this further? That is fine, if there isn't, we are not going
to worry about it. Are there four people who think that this should be addressed?
Thornberry/I do.
Kubby/No.
Lehman/I got one, two, three, we got four.
Champion/I am willing to help address it.
Lehman/We may talk about it and end up doing exactly what we are doing now.
Norton/Okay.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#16a Page 57
ITEM NO. 16a REPORT ON ITEMS FROM THE CITY MANAGER AND CITY
ATTORNEY
Lehman/Steve, do you have anything?
Atkins/Yes, a couple of things. Don't forget the 15th, 3:00, Civic Center, tour time. You
are going to be going to the Sewage Treatment Plants and other exciting places.
So.
Norton/16th?
Arkins/15th.
Kubby/And we should wear walking shoes I assume.
Arkins/Yeah, there is not a lot of real stomping around but-
Lehman/We will look at the Sewer Plant, not walk it.
Champion/Before we adjourn, I do have one thing to say.
Atkins/Also council first.
Champion/No, please.
Atkins/Oh no, after you.
Champion/I had my council time. I am sorry.
Arkins/I sent you a memo in the packet that I have been offered a chance to participate in
the Iowa League of Cities Executive Board. Unless I hear otherwise, I intend to
do that.
Kubby/I think that is a wonderful opportunity, not only for you but for us.
Atkins/Thank you to you, too. The City employee's women's softball team, known as
the J Crew, finished second in the tournament this year. This is their second
season. They deserve 'atta girls'. Forgive me this one time, 'atta girls' they did
very well.
Kubby/Congratulations.
Atkins/The men's City employee team will get them next year. That is all I have.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998
#16a Page 58
Lehman/Connie, you had something else.
Kanner/Public go on tour?
Atkins/You may go on the tour. We won't have room on the bus but you can certainly
follow us around. We will give you a schedule.
Lehman/Connie.
Champion/I was really- A landlord who owns several buildings in town, several
apartment buildings and houses talked to me the day before yesterday to tell me
that she had had all of her inspections done, that there were several infractions. Is
that what you call them? And that she had never been treated so nicely by
anybody from the Inspection Department.
Norton/That is good.
Lehman/Thank you, Connie.
Champion/I think that is really-
Lehman/Pass it on, Steve.
Champion/Do you want the name of the person?
Kubby/Yeah, say it.
Champion/Art Anderson. Maybe he can give lessons.
Atkins/Not much of a third baseman but he is okay on this. I apologize Art, you are a
very good third baseman.
Champion/This is a person who has been dealing with the Inspection Department for
years and years.
(All talking).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting
September 9, 1998.
F090998