HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-09-22 Transcription#2b page 1
ITEM NO. 2b MAYOR'S PROCLAMATION o Fire Prevention Week o October 4-10
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #2b). Whereas smoke and poisonous gases are the leading
causes of death in fires and can kill a person long before the flames will, and
whereas understanding the power of fire and the time it takes to escape a home
after a fire ignites and could cost a life, and whereas developing a home escape
plan and practicing it at least twice a year is critical to escaping a real fire safely,
and whereas the 1998 Fire Prevention Week theme, Fire Drills - The Great Escape
emphasizes the importance of not only having a home escape plan, but practicing
it regularly, and whereas the Iowa City Fire Department is dedicated to the safety
of life and property from the devastating effects of fire, now therefore, I Ernest W.
Lehman, Mayor of the City of Iowa City, Iowa, do hereby proclaim the week of
October 4th through the 10th to be Fire Prevention Week in Iowa City, and urge
our citizens to participate in the Fire Prevention activities at home, work, school,
and to execute the Great Escape to ensure their safety and the safety of their
families in the event of a fire.
Marian Karr/And here to accept, Mr. Mayor, is Fire Fighters Steve Cook, Steve
Stimmel, and Syndy?
Kubby/Who's the blonde?
Karr/Syndy.
Kubby/I love Syndy.
Lehman/Which one's Syndy?
Norton/Which one's Syndy.
Kubby/He want's them dancing and singing.
Van/How cute.
Champion/It's adorable.
Lehman/Hello, Syndy, how are you? Oh.
Kubby/We never have fire drills here. Maybe we should, maybe at an informal meeting
we should have one.
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Lehman/We'll put it on the agenda.
Champion/Hi, Syndy.
Thornberry/Is that like a chimney? I mean -o
Norton/That's fight.
Kubby/That's fight.
Lehman/Isn't somebody going to tell us about Syndy?
Steve Stimmel/This is a portable puppet stage that was designed and built by Steve
Cook and Janet Vest. And it's an item we're taking around to the schools to teach
fire prevention this year,. and also to have available for public education events.
Thank you very much.
Champion/Thank you.
Kubby/Thanks for all the work you do every day.
Thornberry/Bye, Syndy.
Champion/Oh my God, that's adorable.
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ITEM NO. 2a MOTOR-IOWAY Day - October 5
Lehman/Whereas MOTOR-IOWAY 1998 consists of 200 classic and antique
automobiles will tour the state over eight days in early October, averaging 100 to
150 miles per day, and whereas MOTOR-IOWAY's objectives are to share
transportation heritage with Iowans, get to know the territory and people, provide
an opportunity for the drivers and their passengers to have tim, provide an
educational opportunity for all ages, give pleasures to others by sharing their
classic and antique automobiles, and to commemorate the role of the motor
vehicle in our history, and whereas the Iowa City areas have been selected as a
MOTOR-IOWAY 1998 tour overnight destination, now therefore, I, Ernest W.
Lehman, Mayor of the City of Iowa City, Iowa, do hereby proclaim Monday,
October 5, 1998 to be MOTOR-IOWAY Day in Iowa City, and encourage our
citizens to attend shine time between 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. at Iowa Avenue and
Clinton Street on October 5th to view the automobiles.
Karr/Here to accept is Wendy Ford and Curt Moore.
Lehman/I'll be there the next morning, you can count on it. I'll be there that night, too.
Wendy Ford/I would just like to first of all thank the City of Iowa City for their
generosity in helping us stage such a wonderful event downtown. It's truly a
cooperative event when we can get something to close the streets, when we can
get the Hawkeye Marching Band and Cheerleaders and 180 vehicles all sort of
happening in the same two-block area. Curt is a participant and also on the
organizing committee. And on behalf of everybody who has helped to do this, we
invite you to come out and take part in this wonderful event, Monday, October 5,
from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m.. Thanks.
Curt Moore/Thank you.
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ITEM NO. 2c Sexual Assault Awareness Week - September 23-28
Lehman/Whereas in our society, one in three women and one in six men will experience
sexual abuse in their lifetime and violence against women and children continues
to escalate, and whereas during fiscal year 1997, the Rape Victim Advocacy
Program provided services to 454 sexual abuse survivors and significant others,
and whereas sexual abuse affects every person in our community, as a victim,
survivor or family member, significant other, neighbor, or co-worker of a victim
or survivor, and whereas it is critical to intensify public awareness of sexual
abuse, to increase support for agencies providing sexual abuse services, now
therefore I, Ernest W. Lehman, Mayor of the City of Iowa City, Iowa, do hereby
proclaim September 23rd through 281h, 1998 to be Sexual Assault Awareness
Week in Iowa City, and urge all citizens in this observance.
Karr/here to accept is Liz Fitzgerald.
Liz Fitzgerald/I would like just to make a few comments. And to start by thanking you,
the City Council, and also all of the members of Iowa City for continually
supporting the project of the Rape Victim Advocacy Program and the services that
we provide. I would like to invite everyone to attend our Sexual Assault
Awareness Week activities, and we're starting that on Thursday at 12:20 on the
Pentacrest at the University of Iowa, and we are having a rally in which we are
calling a 24-hour truce against rape. And I hope that everyone is there to show
their support. Rape Victim Advocacy provides programs to survivors of sexual
abuse, as well as significant others. And I would like to offer our 24 crisis line to
anybody that has concerns if they would like to share that with an advocate. I
would also like to offer our educational programs to people and also support
groups and counseling that we offer through our programs. Thank you again for
your support.
Council/Thank you.
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ITEM NO. 3 CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS
PRESENTED OR AMENDED.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #3).
Thornberry/Move adoption of the calendar.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry.
Van/Second.
Lehman/Seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion?
Kubby/I had a quick comment that I forgot to make last night. On page three, number
"e3", it's for money for the Public Housing Authority for new office space as
either part of the Civic Center addition or another suitable location that has to be
committed within on year. And I'm not sure, I just wanted to get an update on
what our time frame is for making the decision whether or not we expand and
how we might expand at the Civic Center.
Steve Atkins/We expect to have the final drawings available to us, quite frankly, in a
matter of days. And I would hope that as early as your next Council meeting,
which would be the meeting of the 5th and 6th work session, to have a review of
that project for you. The commitment, it's important that HUD, obviously,
understands whether we're going to be utilizing those funds or not. If you choose
to proceed with that project, we can commit the funds to that project. If you
choose to do something else, we would have to go somewhere else. But we do
have to indicate a commitment within a year, just as it indicates. But we will have
it for you shortly.
Kubby/Okay. My concern was I just didn't want this saying yes to this agreement dictate
our decision about the Civic Center because of timing. But it doesn't sound like it
will.
Atkins/No, this does not. This is an acceptance of the grant that's been made available
to us, if we choose to use it or not.
Kubby/Good, thank you.
Norton/Ernie, I want to comment on, I think it's Item 6 on page 4, e6 on page 4. This is,
I'm reporting for the Rules Committee which is myself and the Mayor, and
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Marian, and we were reviewing the procedures of the Police Citizens Review
Board, and they had expressed interest in being able to hold meetings of that
Board, certain meetings of that Board, in places other than in City facilities. The
present regulation, the by-laws hold that all of their meetings would be held in
accessible City facilities, and the proposal is to change that, the resolution that I'd
like to move, I guess, well, it'd be part of the consent calendar, is as follows,
"Place of meetings both regular and special shall be held in an accessible City
facility. Meetings which are forums solely for community input may be in other
appropriate meeting places in Iowa City." Their view was that the latter kind of
meetings which are meetings in the formal sense in that a quorum of the
Committee will be there, but they're held only for that, there's no business
transaction other than to hear from the citizens. And they've felt sometimes those
meetings might be held in places other than, say, the Public Library. They might
want to have them in a neighborhood center or a school or someplace where
people might feel free-er to appear and testify about their situation. So, --
Kubby/Dee, does the word appropriate mean accessible as well?
Norton/Well, I suppose it would be accessible, I suppose it could be that, too, I suppose.
Lehman/Well, I think the word "appropriate" in today's world --
Norton/Well presumably they wouldn't pick an inappropriate place. Maybe that word
just should be "accessible". Why not?
Karr/I think appropriate was patterned after other by-laws. We made it consistent with
existing by-laws. And I believe "accessible" is included, yes.
Norton/So appropriate has __9
Kubby/Well as long as, if people would agree that that's our understanding then that's
fine.
Champion/Oh, I think so.
Lehman/It would be inappropriate if it wasn't accessible.
Norton/Yeah right, okay.
Kubby/I'm glad we feel that way.
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Norton/I think, still, is that the only Commission that has that prerogative? Don't the
others all meet in City facilities?
Karr/On a regular basis, yes.
Norton/But they might also hold forums, so presumably this change might come up for
some others.
Karr/That's correct. Or other ones may need to do field trips to observe other things
prior to making a decision also.
Lehman/However, I think it's important to note that any decision making must be made
at a regular or special meeting held in a public facility. This is only for public
forums. Other discussion of the consent calendar? Roll call- (yes). Motion
carded.
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ITEM NO. 4 PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
Lehman/Public Discussion. This is the time reserved for the public to address Council
on any item not on the agenda. We ask that you sign in, state your name, and limit
your comments to five minutes.
Philip Zell/I'm Philip Zell, and I'm representing the Senior Center Commission. And
I've just three items. Linda has, Linda Kopping has initiated a study of the usage
of the north parking lot. The purpose of this is to enable her to advise Joe Fowler
of the needs of the Senior Center so that what we request in the way of parking
spaces in the new facility will more closely match what our needs will be.
Secondly, Linda is continuing to evaluate space-usage with an eyeball toward the
most effective use of space in the Senior Center. And lastly, tomorrow is the
Senior Center Anniversary Picnic. It will be held in Lower City Park starting at
5:00 in Shelters 11, 12, 13, and 14. And you will all be invited. Be there or be
square. Bye.
Chad Gonnerman/Well, good evening, ladies and gentlemen of our City Council. My
name is Chad Gonnerman and I'm a resident of Iowa City, and a few weeks ago,
as you may remember, I attended one of these local City Council meetings to
express some concerns that I have with the deer management plan of '97 and '98.
And during these last few weeks, a few more matters have arisen that I would like
to have cleared up, if this is possible. First, I was reviewing the August 251h City
Council meeting, and a question was posed regarding public feedback, and
specifically the number of complaints that the City received concerning deer.
And perhaps I'm a bit unclear about this, but I believe that Mr. Thornberry, Dean
Thornberry, stated that such records of complaints do exist, and if this is the case,
I would like to receive a copy of these complaints under the Iowa Open
Information Act. And the reason that I'm concerned with this documentation is
from studying the situation in Cedar Rapids. I'm interested to see who exactly has
the vested interest in killing these deer. And in Cedar Rapids where these
complaints are documented, around 90% of these complaints were made by
developers. That is, those with money and those with profit in mind. And those
appear to be the people with real vested interest in Cedar Rapids. And this may
very well be the case in Iowa City. And I would like to find out if that is the case.
Who's complaining? And the second reason that I'm concerned with this list of
complaints, if they do indeed exist, I feel that the City is making an immense
move by resorting to killing these deer, and this is a very, like I said, an
extremely, extremely big move. One that many have reservations with. So, I am
hoping that the City has some kind of documentation, that is, some kind of proof
to back their plan up with, so that citizens like myself can actually look through
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these and say yes, there is a significant number of people complaining. So, my
question is, is the proof them? I was reading the Cedar Rapids Gazette from
September 9, 1998, and in this article entitled "Iowa City Panel to Reassess the
Deer Kill Quota", it mentions that it's been two birthing seasons since the last
helicopter count has been taken. Once again, I think that the City should have this
kind of information and documentation available. And my final issue is with the
$15,000 that's been allocated for the lethal removal of the deer. Repeatedly when
I asked about the exact dollar amount to be spent, I was sent to the Deer
Management Plan. Indeed, this makes sense. But from conversations with the
administrative assistant to the City Manager, and from seeing this article in the
Cedar Rapids Gazette, it appears that the number, that is, the amount of money,
has simply just changed. It is no longer $15,000 like it says in the Deer
Management Plan. So if somebody goes to look at the Deer Management Plan,
they're going down the wrong trip. Instead, it appears now it's going to be
anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000. And I would like to know where this
additional money is coming from if anybody knows. Because this is a mighty big
increase, and no one is aware of this. The only papers that ran any information
about this, and I keep fairly up with this, is the Cedar Rapids Gazette. Cedar
Rapids. No Iowa City has ran one article about this. And finally, and very
quickly, at the August 251h meeting, I was informed about a final ordinance
meeting. And I was told that I would be given information about this meeting via
mail. And unfortunately I haven't received any information about this. So, I
would like to know ifI could please get the details regarding this ordinance
meeting. And once again, I request a written response to the questions I have
asked tonight. Thank you very much for your time.
Lehman/I don't think, I asked myself when the next meeting was scheduled, I thought it
was going to be this month. Apparently that meeting has not been scheduled yet.
Atkins/I could find out for you.
Lehman/Well, but as of now. And I don't know, as far as records go, --
Atkins/Normally we do not keep formal records on complaints that come in to the
various offices. We record it, we try to dispatch personnel immediately. We do
not, we try to avoid, we try to just handle the complaint as quickly as we can.
Now, the car-deer accident records, we have those.
Lehman/Yeah.
Atkins/We have that available to us.
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Lehman/Now, we have Chad's address?
Atkins/Yes.
Lehman/We will, as soon as we have the information on the meeting, you will be
notified.
Gonnerman/Okay.
Lehman/And as far as the money, it comes out of the General Fund.
Gonnerman/Okay.
Kubby/But that hasn't been brought back to us to approve an increase in the amount, and
it would need to come back to us, I assume, if it was going to double or more.
Gonnerman/Okay. And then that information about when it comes back, I guess to the
City Council, you're not aware yet of when that date's going to be set?
Lehman/No. But that would be, that would be published. That would be on the agenda.
Gonnerman/Okay, great.
Thornberry/I don't think the price, I thought it was per deer, but I guess it's by the hour.
Don't we pay these sharpshooters by the hour or whatever?
Lehman/Well, we'll discuss that when we get it back. We don't know but we'll get that
with the report from Deer Management.
Kubby/Well and the other piece of the money thing is, because there's many aspects to
the Deer Management Plan, and the deer kill is one of them, and it's going to be
the most expensive one, but there are other aspects of it, educational materials,
and if we end up doing some study with the Humane Society, all those things may
have a little bit of money attached to it, too.
Gonnerman/Okay. Because when I did the math about, conceming this, I had found out
it would cost about $175 per deer, approximately. And then the additional $35,
this is from what I heard, so I just did the math. And $30,000 to $50,000,
depending on how many are killed, is just, that's just the lethal removal, and then
on top of that there would be educational information. But I thank you very
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much, and have a good evening.
Lehman/Thankyou.
Karr/
Mr. Mayor? I'd just like to note that any individual who appeared before City
Council or wrote the Council a letter regarding the problem would be kept on file.
So those would be in the City Clerk's Office if you'd like to stop there. Any
letters or individuals who appeared, we would have that file. That would not be
all the complaints, but it would be some.
Kubby/Right.
Karr/City Clerk's Office.
Kubby/And we all receive phone calls. For example, I'm trying to remember over the
years, I don't think I've ever had a developer call me about deer. It's mostly
people who have moved into new subdivisions that are near ravines and wooded
areas, and I usually ask you know, where do you live, oh, that's a really nice
wooded area. Why do you live there? Well, the woods and the wildlife. And, get
into that kind of conversation.
Clay Foley/Hello. My name is Clay Foley. I've been a resident of Iowa City a little
over a year now. And I would just like to take a minute to express some feelings
that I have, somewhat in the same light that Chad just expressed. I have to say
that I'm, I've lived, like I say, I've lived in Iowa City for a little over a year. And
I'm very impressed with what Iowa City has to offer as a community. I personally
believe that we lead Iowa as a city in areas such as diversity, compassion,
community involvement, intelligence, things like that. And I'm very proud to say
that I'm a citizen of Iowa City. And I believe that we are a prime example of a
very forward-thinking community. But I have to say that I was disturbed very
deeply when I heard of the Deer Task Force's plan to sharpshoot this winter. I
realize this is a very sensitive topic, and that none of us, even the supporters of the
plan, enjoy the killing of these deer. But you, as the City Council, were faced
with a problem and the problem, in my opinion, it didn't seem that there were too
many deer roaming in the wooded areas or the fields, it was that the deer were
wandering into people's yards to feed and that they were crossing the roads and
getting hit by automobiles of course. But let's be honest. We're kidding
ourselves, I believe, if we actually believe that deer-auto accidents will cease as a
result of this, as a result of the killing of these deer. In my opinion, education is
the real weapon. Education breeds tolerance. And if we inform the public of
where the deer are, why they're there, and how to deal with the deer, people won't
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think of them as a nuisance. They will think of them as what they really are, an
asset. And I suppose that's about all I have to say. I heard Ms. Kubby say that the
Deer Management Plan didn't only include the sharpshooting of the deer, of
course. It also included educational aspects. And I was wondering if there had
been any progress or any decisions made in that area at all?
Lehman/That's going to come from the next meeting of the Committee, I think.
Foley/Okay.
Lehman/It should be very, very shortly, I believe.
Foley/Okay. Because I would like a written response, I guess, to that question I just
posed.
Lehman/I suspect it might be better if you also attended the meeting.
Foley/Okay.
Lehman/I think sometimes those sorts of interactions are better than written responses.
Foley/Oh, of course. Yeah.
Kubby/Although we have, there are two spots in town where we have a high incidence of
deer-car collisions. On Noah Dodge Street going towards the Interstate away
from town, and then on Noah Dubuque Street, again headed towards the
Interstate. And our, well some activists in town got us educated about these deer
reflectors that were really inexpensive when you think about the prevention of
loss to life and property, and the incidence of nighttime car-deer collisions has
gone down to almost zero in those two areas because of those deer reflectors that
put a path of light away from the road. The deer get scared and go not across the
road but back the way they came from. So that problem can be taken care of with
a real low-tech, low-cost way.
Foley/I know exactly what you're speaking of. I read something like they were 98%
effective or something in that area.
Kubby/Yeah, we've had good luck with them.
Foley/Very extremely effective. Thank you for your time.
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Lehman/Thank you.
Champion/Thank you.
Kubby/Thanks for your interest.
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ITEM NO. 5a PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS - Public heating on an ordinance
changing the zoning designation of approximately 22 acres from Medium Density
Single-Family Residential (RS-8) to Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-
5) for property located in the Summit Street Historic District. (REZ98-0010)
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #5a).
Champion/Mr. Mayor?
Lehman/Yes, Connie?
Champion/I'm going to excuse myself from the room during this discussion. I've been
advised by legal counsel to do that. I don't wish there to be any possibility or
provide impropriety on the Council's part on this decision if that's all right with
you.
Lehman/All right. Thank you, Connie.
Champion/There's a conflict of interest because I do live on Summit Street, and I'm an
applicant for this rezoning.
Lehman/P.h. is open.
Cecile
Kuenzli/I'm Cecile Kuenzli and I live at 705 S. Summit. I guess I'm here because
I want to emphasize, it has been said about the Summit Street Historic District
that it should be okay because it has an Historic Overlay zoning designation right
now. And the point I want to emphasize is that the Overlay zone is by itself
inadequate to protect the district. I had a conversation with Marlys Svendson
about this, who, Marlys authored the Iowa City Historic Preservation Plan and
Ordinance. And she said that that ordinance was never intended to provide the
sole protection for historic districts in Iowa City. Rather, she said historic
preservation results from a combination of zoning and the kind of design review
that the Historic Preservation Commission provides. The design review does not
and cannot concem itself with land-use issues. Right now, the foundation of a
new duplex at 803 is curing. What concerns the applicants for this downzoning is
that something like this could happen again in the historic district. Your planning
department's report on this downzoning states that in addition to the, in addition to
the duplexes that are already there, and I count 12, 67% of the lots in the historic
district, additionally 67% of the properties in the historic district are large enough
to accommodate duplexes. Further construction of new duplexes would forever
alter the 19th century character of the historic district. As long as the underlying
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zoning is RS-8, anyone can construct new duplexes in the historic district. The
Historic Preservation Commission has no authority to prevent that from
happening, and John Shaw said so before the P/Z Commission on August 6th
when he emphasized that the land-use issues are determined by zoning
designations. The Commission's authority over new construction in historic
districts extends only to issues of design and materials. But not to issues of land-
use. So if the current zoning continues, it's only a matter of time before more
duplexes fill up the open spaces that give the district its historic character and
appeal. That the district's character and appeal come, derive from these open
spaces and lot sizes and the abundance of large shade trees on the street, in
addition to the structures themselves, this view is supported by an authority in the
preservation, the first keeper of the National Historic Trust wrote in a seminal
work that "The preservability of a neighborhood stands in direct relationship not
only to the individual buildings and their sum total, but how they relate to each
other, side-by-side, and across the width of the street. The paving materials, street
furniture, as well as open space, are all elements which help weave the visual
tapestry of the neighborhood". And again, he adds, "The significance of an
historic district depends on a collection of buildings, sites, structures, objects, and
spaces that have an integrity of location, design, materials, workmanship, feeling,
and association." In the course of this process, we've heard the question raised
about the diminishment of property-owners' rights when downzoning is
mentioned. And I think the best answer to that is simply to say that all over the
City, existing zoning codes do exactly that to everyone. They define and limit
what property-owners can do with their properties, where they build their houses
on the lots, how high they build their fences, where they site their garages, how
close to their neighbors they can build. People all over the City have to accept the
regulations and limitations that afford them the duty of protection. So the
question we ask, we applicants ask is why shouldn't the property-owners within
the Summit Street Historic District be entitled to the protection of an RS-5
designation when 94% of the properties meet the qualifications for RS-5 zoning,
when a majority of owners support it, and when the City Planning Office report
recommends it, and when the P/Z Commission recommends it by a vote of 6-0.
In preparing this application, I spoke with every property-owner in the district, but
one. The only opposition came from the owners of three rental units, none of
whom lives within the historic district. Whatever diminishment of rights that
might occur by a downzoning, it seems to me is outweighed by the benefits of
stabilizing the historic district in its present state. The entire community benefits
from the efforts of property-owners on the street, in the district, who preserve
their homes from the past for today's citizens to enjoy as they drive and walk
through the neighborhood. By creating the historic district in 1983, the City
Council declared that this area was an asset to the whole City and worthy of being
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preserved in its 19th century character as a predominantly single-family district.
Zoning it RS-5 will help preserve the historic character of the Summit Street
Historic District for all Iowa Citians to enjoy in the future.
Lehman/Thank you. And I think she pointed out, and I think it's important that the
public realizes that this has been approved, and recommended by P/Z and by the
City staff. Does anyone else wish to speak to the rezoning?
Brad Houser/Hi, my name's Brad Houser, and I'm one of the owners of the property that
is actually curing. And we own the duplex at 803 S. Summit. When we did that
land split, off on a lot in the historic district, we had a duplex that was already
there, and we had two duplexes on the side. And what we had proposed was to do
another duplex. And it was okay in the zoning that we had had. And all that we
had asked when we went to P/Z was that the propeay rights would stay the way
there are when we bought the property, which was as RS-8. And to be excluded
from the downzoning of RS-5 in the historic district as the sorority at the noah
end of the historic district was excluded. The six-plex was excluded, and a three-
plex was also excluded on there. Gary Werle and Joanie Werle own the duplexes
to the south of us, and then again, my brother and I own the duplex at 803 and the
new one. And we had asked to be excluded. We were not opposed to the RS-5
downzoning. If the other neighbors wanted it, that was their choice. But we had
just asked that we would be excluded. Which we still ask.
Lehman/Thank you. Karin Franklin, last night, there were a question of two posed to
you that I would like repeated tonight. I think it's important for the public to
realize there are duplexes in this area. And I believe, Dean, you had a question
last night, if you'd like to ask it again. I think it's important.
Thornberry/If I can remember what it was. It had to do with, I think I had several
questions. But one of them was --
Karin Franklin/If it's destroyed to 100% of its assessed value it can't be rebuilt.
Thornberry/If a duplex were existing, non-conforming, and it burned down, would it be
appropriate to rebuild it, or would it revea to single-family?
Franklin/It can be rebuilt as a duplex if it is not destroyed by 100% of its assessed value.
And as I explained last night, to reach that point of having taken away essentially
all value to the property, is a very hard thing to achieve. Because usually with a
fire, there is something that remains, which is usually the foundation. That
foundation has some value. So we have found, since that law has been on the
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books, that it is very unusual to have a circumstance in which you will have
destruction to the point that it's destroyed by 100% of its assessed value. So the
practical result of that is that many non-conforming structures can be rebuilt.
Now, I can't say with absoluteness that Mr. Houser's duplex or any other one
would be able to be rebuilt. If it were destroyed to 100% of the assessed value,
no. But if not, it would be.
Kubby/Those other properties that Mr. Houser spoke of, they're a different zoning
designation, rather than RS-8. They're a higher zoning designation.
Franklin/That's correct. They're RC-20.
Kubby/Okay, thank you.
Lehman/And I also noticed in the packet, unless there's been something since we
received it, we have three protests to the zoning, representing approximately 3%
of the district.
Franklin/That's correct. That's right. To my knowledge, there are no further protests, no.
Van/There--
Norton/I - oh, pardon me, go ahead.
Van/Okay. Within the materials there, staff had some numbers on the number of
duplexes and properties that were non-conforming, and then there seems to be
some other numbers floating around there.
Franklin/I think that, the discrepancy there is related to the criteria that was used to
determine the non-conformity. In Mr. Houser's letter, he refers to the 60-foot lot
width as the determining factor as to whether those lots are non-conforming. And
in that case, if you use the lot width, his number of 13 is correct. If you just look
at duplexes, the number of seven is correct. And the duplex was the criteria we
were using.
Van/Okay.
Norton/What did you say the zoning for the two lots on the south side near the railroad
are?
Franklin/That's RS-8. The question has to do --
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Norton/Why could that not stay RS-8 and the rest of that go to RS-5. What would be
the problem? That was one of the suggestions that was made by the Housers, isn't
it? That would enable them to just stay in the same operation, I take it.
Franklin/It would. And they can stay in the same operation even with the rezoning to
RS-5, assuming that they never abandon that use, or it's not destroyed by 100% of
its assessed value. I think the request was that the property south of Sheridan
Avenue be excluded from the rezoning. There are properties south of Sheridan
Avenue which contribute to the historic district and contribute to the character that
the applicants are trying to preserve, or could contribute if the fagades were
renovated. In terms of the two properties that Mr. Houser's referring to, you can
choose to leave them at RS-8 if you choose to, however that's not the request of
the applicants, to keep this as a whole neighborhood.
Norton/And the only risk to them is if they had a total, 100% destruction, which is
unlikely. I take it that's just a euphemism for saying you can stay in the same use.
Isn't it?
Franklin/Pretty close. Yeah.
Thornberry/I'll have some questions when we get to number 7. But I think this --
Lehman/Thank you, Karin. Anyone else wish to speak to the rezoning?
Van/Is --? Go ahead.
Thomberry/Go ahead.
Jeff Schabillon/My name is Jeff Schabillon. I live at 431 Rundell, which is not in the
Summit Historic District, but in the Longfellow neighborhood. Historic districts
like Summit Street are a very special resource. Very unique areas within Iowa
City. And to establish an historic district requires rather an extraordinary
recognition and cooperation between people that live in that district, the City's
Historic Preservation Commission, the City govemment itself, the State Office of
Historic Preservation, and the National office. It's amazing that historic districts
get established at all. But the fact that they do indicates that they are something
very special and important. The Summit Street district I think is something that
Iowa City can be really proud of. It's certainly something I know that when I have
visitors from out of town, I take them to see them. I know many other people take
people to see the Summit district because it's a unique part of Iowa City's history
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and aesthetic. 40 years ago, when I came to Iowa City, there were other
neighborhood areas that had even some grander and even more historic houses.
Those neighborhoods are gone. If you go to noah Clinton Street, there's just a
few remaining houses. Or College Street between the downtown and Summit
Street is percolated through with apartment houses and so forth. We've lost so
much of Iowa City's aesthetic and history that Summit Street is sort of the last
stand, our last chance. The neighbors in that area, the residents of that district
have come to you asking to help preserve that City resource. And I certainly hope
you don't let them down. And I hope you don't let the rest of us in Iowa City
down either. Don't let this one slip away. Thank you.
Lehman/Thankyou.
Jay Semel/I'm Jay Semel. I live at 331 S. Summit Street. I hope you support the
request. I hope you support it, 1) because the P/Z Commission overwhelmingly
supported it, and 2) because the neighbors on Summit Street, including owners of
duplexes, have overwhelmingly supported it. I would just like to second the last
speaker and say that Summit Street really is special. I've lived in Iowa City for 20
years. I lived in a lovely home on the west side. I've lived in a lovely home in
River Heights. At some point when I felt that I was beginning to lose some of my
Philadelphia accent and really becoming and Iowan, we decided to move to a
house that looked like an Iowa house, and not just to a lovely house somewhere in
New Jersey. And so we started looking for lovely homes in older parts of Summit
Street. And we found them. But then it turned out that one was next to a Quik-
Trip. Another next to a Credit Union. We were looking for a whole
neighborhood in which to raise a family and to live. And Summit Street is among
those terrific streets left in Iowa City that are 1) historic, 2) stable, 3) neighborly,
and 4) and this is especially true, lovely. And anything that you do or allow to be
done that increases the possibility of more duplexes will increase the risk of
Summit Street becoming less historic, less stable, less neighborly, less lovely. So
I hope you support this request. Thank you.
Thornberry/Just for the record, I think I live in a nice neighborhood, too. But I don't live
on Summit Street. There are other nice neighborhoods in town.
Semel/Right. Exactly so. And anything that you can do to keep them terrific would be
greatly appreciated here.
Stephen Bloom/My name is Steven Bloom. I live at 412 S. Summit Street. As the
speakers before me have said, Summit Street really is a showcase of architectural
treasures of not just Iowa City, but of the whole state. The neighbors of Summit
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Street want to preserve that history. We're trying very hard to preserve that
history. Downzoning will help maintain the street's integrity. It will protect the
community. As Jay before me, block by block, much of the City's distinctiveness
has been lost. Interestingly enough, we live in the oldest house on Summit Street.
And it had been turned into a duplex. It wasn't originally built as a duplex. And
we changed it from a duplex to a single-family dwelling because we believed in
the integrity of the neighborhood. We believed in the future of the neighborhood.
We believed in the distinctiveness of that street. I guess my last question, or my
question to you is why not protect this jewel of Iowa City? Why diminish it?
Why not keep it the way it is? Thank you.
Holly Berkowitz/Holly Berkowitz/612 Granada Court. I don't live on Summit Street. I
live in Iowa City. And my, I chose to live in Iowa City because Iowa City has a
very, very unique character, very difficult to find anywhere else in the world.
What gives it that character? What drives people here? Is it the sound of the cash
registers? No. It's something more than that. It's something that you cannot
count. It's the flows, lots of different kinds of flows. The flows that sustain life,
because the people here value life. The hospital. They value young children. It's
a great place to raise children. They value the things that you can't divide like
families and neighborhoods, communities, and self. We're sort of victims of a
cash-flow flood. We get entranced and hypnotized by the, by the many, by
wanting to hear the constant ringing of cash flows. And that's what I'm heating by
the people who want to develop and build the mall, and all. But when you do
that, you lose something of the character of the flows that you can't count. And
you have to balance those kinds of flows. You have to balance the flows that you
can see that are obvious and that are hidden. Like history. You have to balance
short-term, long-term, public, I mean, private and public. And you have to figure
out what the undercurrents are. Who's motivated here? What are the motives
here? I, in development too often it's profit, it's cash flow. And I want you to
look past that. And I think everybody in Iowa City does, because Iowa City's
going to need to compete with the mall out in Coralville and Iowa City can
compete as a historical gym. And Iowa City's historical treasures need to be
recognized. And we need to expand our recognition of that and tap those
resources and maximize the benefits. Maybe give trolley tours or historical tours
and to go around the mall so that you don't lose, so that people can hop on and get
off and hop on without paying and without having to deal with traffic. And so
let's look beyond the cash register and listen to the river flow.
Lehman/Thank you, Holly.
Berkowitz/You're welcome.
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Lehman/Any discussion from Council? Choose to close the hearing?
Karr/Could we have a motion to accept correspondence?
Thomberry/So moved.
Kubby/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Kubby. All in favor- (ayes).
carried. P.h. is closed.
Kubby/So we'll be voting on this in two weeks, October 6th.
Lehman/That's correct. Thank you, folks.
Motion
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ITEM NO. 5b Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of an approximate
4,000 square foot property located at 114 Wright Street from Community
Commercial (CC-2) to Planned High Density Multiple-Family Residential
(PRM). (First consideration)
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #5b).
Norton/Move first consideration.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Move by Norton, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion? Roll call-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-105, SIDE B
Kubby/Get Connie.
Karr/Eleanor just went to get Connie. I can do the roll call.
Thornberry/She's probably not there anymore.
Karr/Thomberry-
Lehman/I'm sorry.
Karr/Do you want to do roll call?
Lehman/We should wait for Connie. No, no, I apologize, Connie.
Kubby/We went on.
Lehman/You're so quiet, we didn't know you weren't there.
Champion/You went on without me?
Thornberry/We did, we did.
Lehman/We haven't. We're about to. We're voting on item b which is the item
immediately --
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Thomberry/Actually we're at Council Time.
Lehman/No. Item b which is the Wright Street, changing the zoning designation.
Champion/Okay.
Lehman/We're, this is roll - do you have any comments about that? None of the rest of
us did, by the way.
Champion/No, I don't. But thank you for asking.
Lehman/Roll call-
Champion/Can I comment on this?
Lehman/You may.
Champion/I'm going to vote for it.
Lehman/In a couple seconds, we'd have all known. Roll call- (yes). Motion carded.
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ITEM NO. 5c Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately
9.27 acres from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to Sensitive Areas
Overlay/Medium Density Residential (OSA-8) to allow a 72-unit residential
development on property located on the south side of Taft Speedway west of
Dubuque Street. (REZ98-0009) (First consideration)
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #c). Item c is an ordinance relative to some residential
property on Dubuque Street.
Thornberry/Move to defer to October 6th.
Lehman/We've been asked to defer that for two weeks.
Van/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion? All in favor-
(ayes). Opposed- (none). The item is deferred.
Karr/Could we have a motion to accept correspondence?
Norton/So moved.
Van/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, seconded by Vanderhoef. All in favor- (ayes). All opposed-
(none). Motion carded.
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ITEM NO. 5d Consider a resolution approving a preliminary plat of Country Club
Estates First Addition, a 10.82 acre 21-1ot subdivision located at the west
terminus of Phoenix Drive. (SUB98-0011)
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #5d). We've been asked to defer that one also for two
weeks. Do we have a motion to that effect?
Thornberry/Well, is it, it's either two weeks or indefinitely.
Lehman/Excuse me, excuse me, Karin? Karin Franklin has indicated that this should be
deferred indefinitely. Is there a motion?
Thornberry/So moved.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion? All in favor-
(ayes). Motion is carried.
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ITEM NO. 5e Consider a resolution approving an amendment to the 28E agreement
between the City of Coralville and the City of Iowa City regarding future
annexations and extraterritorial review of subdivision plats.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #5e).
Thornberry/Move adoption of the resolution for purposes of discussion. I believe Mr.
O'Donnell would like to speak.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry.
Champion/Second.
Lehman/Seconded by Champion. Discussion?
O'Donnell/I don't have anything on this.
Thornberry/No, okay.
Norton/I thought --
Lehman/ I think we --
Champion/ We should have some discussion.
Thornberry/We should, yeah.
O'Donnell/Why?
Lehman/We have come to indicate, well, why what?
Kubby/Why we're going to vote it down.
Council/(All talking).
Norton/Well, will people understand '-
Lehman/ I think people need to know what we're not --
Norton/ I think we need a picture up there, don't we?
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Lehman/I don't know about that. But I think that we have reached a situation where we
have an agreement with Coralville which was no longer valid because of an
annexation. Is that correct?
Franklin/That's correct. You have to renegotiate.
Lehman/We have to renegotiate. And the discussion last night, and this is property with,
outside of the City limits, but an area which will require the review of either Iowa
City or Coralville when it is designed and developed. It is an area that is in,
immediately adjacent to the Iowa River, one which Iowa City feels could have an
impact on future development within the City, whether or not it is ever annexed
because of water quality issues, street standards, and so on. And last night, the
discussion was that we would like to retain the review process over this particular
property and ask, I guess inform Coralville that we would like to retain that right
of review. Is that an accurate statement?
Kubby/Thank you.
Lehman/That would, in fact, mean that we would defeat, or vote down the resolution.
Norton/I think it might be helpful for people to understand that the area we're talking
about is between Dubuque Street Extended and the River, or W66 is the formal
road. And that area, it's not as though we're planning annexation, but that area
and the area immediately across the River on the fight which might be developed
at some point, would have heavy impact on our water intake that's fight above our
water. So we think we ought to be involved in reviewing developments out there
to make sure they meet decent standards on grading and all the rest.
Thornberry/Well, too, Dee, instead of having it a co-area with both Coralville and Iowa
City reviewing this, it would just mean another hoop for people to go through.
They'd have to go to the Iowa City people, they'd have to go to the Coralville
people, and then Johnson County before they could do anything. And I don't see
the sense in doing that, either. I would as soon keep it the way it is, if not take --
Franklin/Well, what you can do is you can amend the resolution such that you are
amending the agreement to indicate that Iowa City would have the jurisdiction to
review subdivisions between Dubuque Street and the Iowa River.
Kubby/And that way when --
Franklin/That's correct, that way it'll go back to Coralville, and we can balance this.
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Kubby/This speeds up the process.
Lehman/Yes, it would.
Van/Does it need to designate the River? Because we have review on the other side of
the River, also.
Franklin/Yes, but the area --
Van/ Of Dubuque Street, would that --?
Franklin/The area that is in dispute is between --
Van/ It's between the two.
Franklin/Dubuque Street and the Iowa River.
Van/Yeah.
Franklin/And I think if you make a motion that you wish to amend the agreement such
that it is clear that Iowa City will have jurisdiction to review subdivision plats
between Dubuque Street and the Iowa River.
Thornberry/Or points east.
Franklin/That will make it clear enough that we can do an amended agreement and go
back to Coralville with that.
Van/So moved.
Champion/Karin, do you agree with that?
Thornberry/I would really like to second that motion.
Lehman/I heard that motion, but who made it?
Van/I did. It was when I was working.
Lehman/It was seconded by Thornberry, to amend the resolution as has just been
reiterated by Karin Franklin. Is there discussion relative to the amendment?
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Champion/Well, I'm wondering ifKarin does, do you have that transparency with you?
Lehman/I have --
Franklin/ I have it, but, oh, yes, here's the overhead projector.
Lehman/Here, Connie, I've got it right here.
Champion/Oh, okay. This'll work. Because I dropped this and everything's
discombobulated. It fell apart.
Lehman/I think that's upside down.
Kubby/I whispered that. I didn't say that out loud.
Franklin/Mr. Mayor, would you like us to do the overhead?
Lehman/Oh, if you have it. I don't know how necessary it is.
Champion/No. I just wanted to make sure.
Lehman/She has it.
Thornberry/Oh I thought you gave it to her.
Lehman/Yeah, I did. That's what we're voting on.
Champion/All fight. Thank you.
Lehman/Are there further discussion on the amendment? Roll call-
Karr/There's a motion on the amendment.
Lehman/All in favor of the amendment- (ayes). All opposed- (none).
Kubby/Dean, thank you for helping us keep this moving forward.
Thomberry/Now, we will vote positively.
Lehman/Now, we would vote positively to pass the motion as amended. Is there
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discussion on the resolution as amended? Roll call- (yes).
Kubby/And then it'll go back to Coralville and then Coralville can vote it up or down or
make whatever changes they want and then it can come back to us.
Lehman/That's correct, that's correct.
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ITEM NO. 6 PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3,
ENTITLED "CITY FINANCES, TAXATION & FEES," CHAPTER 4
ENTITLED "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES, CHARGES, BONDS, FINES,
AND PENALTIES" OF THE CITY CODE TO DECREASE THE RATES FOR
LANDFILL USE FEES.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #6). P.h. is open.
Norton/Nobody protesting a decrease.
Lehman/No one's protesting a decrease. P.h. is closed. It seems that something as
momentous as this should not go unnoticed, because the decrease in the rates in
the landfill which have been the source of some consternation for local folks and
people in the County have been reduced by approximately 20%. And that rate
will go into effect the first of the year. So I, we have, and I think, for your
information, we have in place a master plan for the land fill, one that we hope will
govern that facility for the next 30 or 40 years. And I think it's a very good plan.
It's one the staff has worked very hard on. And it's because of that plan and the
authorization by the Council of that plan that we were able to do some more
computing and come up with a decrease in fees. So, we're proud of that.
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ITEM NO. 7 APPEAL TO CITY COUNCIL OF THE DECISION OF THE HISTORIC
PRESERVATION COMMISSION REGARDING THE CERTIFICATE OF
APPROPRIATENESS FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW PRIMARY
BUILDING ON LOTS 1 & 2, M&W ADDITION (803 S. SUMMIT STREET),
WHICH APPEAL WAS FILED WITH THE CITY CLERK ON AUGUST 20,
1998, BY APPLICANT BRADFORD J. HOUSER.
a. PUBLIC HEARING
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #7). This is going to be a p.h. Prior to opening the p.h., I
would like Eleanor to explain exactly what the Council has the purview of
deciding or detennining.
Eleanor Dilkes/As I set forth in my memo of, to you, of September 17, 1998, the, your
decision in the first instance is, very much I suppose, you would characterize it as
a process question. You must look at 1) whether the Commission followed the
rules and the guidelines that it was required to follow by law, and 2) whether it
acted arbitrarily or capriciously. I gave you a definition of arbitrary and
capricious that comes from a Supreme Court case in that memo. Basically, the
Supreme Court has defined that as "without regard to the law or the facts". And
I'll give you some further explanation of that in a minute. I also told you in that
memo that this is a very narrow standard of review. In other words, it's not like
you all are just looking at this afresh. Rather, you are reviewing the decision-
making process of the Historic Preservation Commission. You cannot alter the
decision of the Commission simply because you disagree with it. You cannot
substitute your judgment for the Commission. To sort of further define the terms
arbitrary and capricious, these terms are used probably most frequently in appeals
to a court, for instance, from a decision of an administrative agency, an
administrative agency that is viewed to have an expertise in a certain area.
There's lots of them at the State level, the Department of Natural Resources, for
instance. And so I'm borrowing from sort of that body of case law when I try and
give you an idea what these terms mean. If there is a rational basis, and these are
examples, there are different ways that something can be arbitrary, okay? So
these are examples. If something is rational, or if reasonable minds can differ,
that's not arbitrary. Even though you might disagree with someone, that's not
arbitrary. If a decision is based on the record, in other words, I say as a member
of the Commission I am basing my decision on x, y, and z, those things are indeed
in the record, and that's not an arbitrary decision. If something, if a decision
rendered is within the scope of the Commission's authority, for instance they, and
I think that in this case it was something within the scope of their authority. Some
examples of things that are, one might characterize as arbitrary. If, for instance,
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the Commission relied on things that it wasn't supposed to, relied on laws or
guidelines that it was not supposed to, relied on facts that it was not supposed to,
that would be arbitrary, capricious. Capricious is sort of a whim, you know, not
grounded in anything in law or fact. If, if an agency or if the Commission, if the
Commission in this case offered an explanation for its decision that runs counter
to the evidence in front of it, one might term that arbitrary. Or, for instance, if the
decision is just so implausible that it just doesn't make any sense. Those are some
examples of what one might determine to be arbitrary and one might, what one
might determine not to be arbitrary. I think, I told you last night that I think you
need to be very systematic about this. This is not a role that you're used to being
in. It's like the role, you're an appellate body in this instance, like a court
reviewing a decision of a lower court of an administrative agency. So, as I told
you in my memo, I think you need to read everything that's been presented to you.
You have to listen to all public comment and gather all the information that you
need. And then you need to look at that evidence in front of you and decide, did
the Commission follow, 1) did the Commission follow the rules that it was
supposed to follow? 2) What facts did they rely on? Were those facts in the
record? And I just offer that to you as sort of a way to proceed. And as I also
stated in my memo, the motion to decide the appeal which is noted on the agenda
need not, of course we don't know what that's going to be, that motion need not be
made tonight. The City Code requires that a decision be made within a reasonable
amount of time. And I think if after tonight you feel like you still need additional
information or additional time for deliberation, I don't think that that would be
unreasonable. You should keep the public heating open until you are absolutely
sure that you have all the information that you need, want, desire, whatever, and
are ready to make a decision, prior to closing the public heating.
Kubby/Thank you.
Lehman/Have we digested all of that?
Norton/Yeah, I --
Lehman/P.h. is open. And I think that based on what Eleanor has just told us, that
comments made at the p.h. really are going to have to be relevant to whether or
not the decision was arbitrary or capricious, not with whether or not we happen to
the results of that decision. So anyone who would like to speak, the heating is
open.
Nortoni Mayor--
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Dilkes/Mayor--
Norton/May I ask, is it both or either of those conditions? That is, follow the guidelines,
arbitrary, it doesn't have to be both things, does it?
Dilkes/No, they have to have followed the guidelines and not to have acted arbitrarily or
capriciously.
Norton/And so they have to meet both conditions. Okay.
Dilkes/Yes. Mr. Mayor? Let me also say, the memo goes on to explain what happens if
you decide it is arbitrary and capricious. And at that point, then, you can start
looking at that. But that comes later. If you even get to that point.
Michaelanne Widness/My name's Michaelanne Widness. I live at 629 Melrose Avenue.
And I am a member of the Historic Preservation Commission. Doris Malkmus
who is the Commission Chair wasn't able to be here this evening. She has sked
Mike Gunn (??) and myself to be her stand-ins, and at her request, I will briefly
summarize the salient points of the three-page letter that the Commission sent to
you regarding this decision. This was a very difficult decision for the
Commission to make, as you probably deduced when going through almost 30
pages of minutes from two of the three meetings at which this topic was
discussed. There were three siding materials that were discussed at these
meetings. Vinyl siding, Mr. Houser had originally applied to have vinyl siding on
his project. An alternative that he offered was a material that is generically
referred to as fiber-cementboard. And then, of course, wood was also included in
the discussion. We discussed vinyl siding first, at great length, more than an hour.
And in the end, voted unanimously to reject this material. There were many
objections which were raised, and the majority of these objections centered
around the fact that vinyl siding is not compatible or harmonious with the
surrounding structures in the Summit Street Historic District. Now, as I'm sure
you are aware, to guide the Commission in these design reviews, we look to a
couple of sets of standards for assistance. One of them is a Federal set of
standards known as "The Secretary of the Interior's Standards for Rehabilitation".
And you have an excerpt of that in your packet. The "Secretary of the Interior
Standards" deal largely with existing structures, not with new construction. There
are a couple of paragraphs that do address new construction in historic
neighborhoods. And I won't read those to you because, as I say, you have them,
but essentially they say you look for compatibility and harmony with the
surrounding structures. What the Commission relied on more heavily was the
local set of standards. And these are the "Procedures and Guidelines for Review
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of Projects in Historic Districts" which were adopted in 1990. And you also have
a copy of those. Essentially, the language is the same, except that the local
standards take it one step farther and they say that you need to look for
compatibility not just with surrounding structures, but with contributing
structures. That is, structures, houses, that contribute to the historic nature of this
district. Scott Kugler did a survey of 51 of the primary structures in the Summit
Street Historic District. And he discovered that exactly one is sided in vinyl, that
being Mr. Houser's existing duplex. Of the remaining 50 primary structures,
almost 80% are sided in the materials that they were originally sided in, and that
would be some brick but primarily wood. A second reason for rejecting vinyl
siding had to do with the fear that a presumption would be established, that vinyl
siding would be appropriate in the future in all applications. The argument was
that ifvinyl siding is considered to be appropriate in the Summit Street Historic
District, in what neighborhood would this not be appropriate? After rejecting
vinyl, we went on to a discussion of this fiber-cement material. We were largely
unfamiliar with this material, and so there was an educational process that took
place. We looked at samples of the material at meetings. We read the literature
that Scott had disseminated. We went out and looked at local houses and garages
and sheds where this material had been used. And in the end, a number of
Commissioners were really rather impressed with this material. It does, it's not a
perfect match with wood, but it certainly is very close. It has a number of
attributes that are laudable. It is supposed to withhold paint, or I should say it is
supposed to hold paint well. It is supposed to resist rotting and that sort of thing.
It is also much cheaper than redwood siding. The problem with fiber-
cementboard, and I believe the principal reason why this failed to pass has to do
with the fact that this material simply does not have a track record for use in the
Midwest. It was designed to be used in consistently hot, humid climates such as
Australia and New Zealand. It has been used in this country for a short period of
time, primarily in the South. So that there was really no assurance that the
Commission could have of how this material would withstand the Iowa winters.
And because this is such a public decision that the Commission is making, we
were concemed that our allowance to use this material in the Summit Street
Historic District would be taken by others in the community as an endorsement of
this product. And we were reluctant to be seen as recommending something that
could prove in five or seven or ten years to simply be a product that fails. So we
were left with wood. And I will say, there were probably a couple of members on
the Commission who felt that wood was the appropriate material from the
beginning. It does meet the criteria. It is authentic. It is harmonious and
compatible with the contributing structures. It can be painted mm~y colors,
historic colors. It is a known commodity. It does all the things that we needed it
to do. And I will say, this material, wood that is, there is a precedent for requiring
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wood siding on new construction in a historic district. Subsequent to the decision,
Joyce Barrett who is a former Commission member informed me that in the early
1990s, a resident living in the Woodlawn Historic District constructed a garage
and requested that vinyl siding be allowed. His request was denied, and the
garage was sided ultimately in wood. While not part of the actual discussions on
this, the particular choice of siding material, there are two points that I think
should be made, because they actually do bear on this decision. One is, last night,
one of you made a comment about the fact that the people sitting on this
Commission are not experts. And I feel that I must leap to the defense of at least
a few of the members of this Commission. Betty Kelley (??) holds a Ph.D. and is
an architectural historian. Mike Gunn who is here this evening has a great deal of
expertise in construction materials and techniques, architectural features, that sort
of thing, as well as Doris Malkmus who is, as I say, the Commission Chair. The
rest of us, while not technically experts, do meet the qualifications for members of
the Commission that appear in the Historic Preservation Regulations. And so I
feel it is fair to say that we are probably as qualified a Commission as any that is
staffed by volunteer citizens. I will go on to say that even if we were all
technically experts in these matters, I'm not sure the decision would have
changed. Because in this case, it was not a question of not being smart enough. It
was a question of there simply not being information out there with which we
could make an informed decision. If you read carefully through the minutes, you
saw a lot of discussion about standards, about setting high standards, about the
fact that possibly we were setting a precedent if we allowed wood that would then
have to be applied to all the neighborhoods in town. I think it's important to
remind everyone here that we are talking about a very specific set of
circumstances. We are talking about a siding decision for new construction in a
historic district. As we pointed out to you in our letter, normally siding issues do
not come before the Historic Preservation Commission. They normally do not
require a building permit. Existing houses do not require a permit to re-side in
any material. This came before the Commission because it is new construction.
And also, as we pointed out in the letter, we don't believe this will have a far-
reaching impact on the community. We, because as I say it only deals with new
construction, we also need to be clear about the fact that in the past the
Commission has allowed the use of synthetic materials as siding in historic
districts, primarily on garages and outbuildings that are not visible from the street.
Finally on the subject of standards, the concern that is voiced most often, or the
one I hear most often about the Historic Preservation Commission is that there is a
tendency for the Commission to set standards that are too, too high, too
restrictive, and that people who might otherwise be interested in preservation are
deterred because of these high standards. I think it's interesting that here we are
seeing the flip-side of this concem, because what we were hearing was, if we
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didn't require wood, we would be setting standards that are simply too low. I'm
sure I'm stating the obvious when I say that the Commission has to walk a very
fine line between setting up roadblocks for people to preserve and protect historic
resources, and not affording any protection at all. I think there, we try to
compromise, and certainly in the short time that I have been on the Commission, I
think we have a very good record of negotiating compromises with applicants.
But I think the danger is in setting a policy incrementally. And by that I mean we
make a number of seemingly very innocuous or benign compromises that in the
end becomes a body of decisions that produce a mark that is much lower than the
mark that would have been set initially. We try to shoot for standards that
encourage the best the preservation can accomplish. We would like to see as the
end result of our efforts, the kind of stunning rehabilitation that was just done with
the Park House Hotel. Not all of our decisions will end so successfully. And
certainly not all of them will end on the same note of good will. But we intend to
pursue what we perceive to be the direction that we have been given and that we
believe should be taken and we will strive to do as we have always done, make
decisions after listening to all of the information fai~y and impartially and
keeping in mind the requirements that we have been given under the law for
making these decision. Thank you.
Champion/Thank you.
Widness/I don't know if my --?
Lehman/I--
Widness/I'm sorry.
Lehman/I have a couple of questions.
Widness/Okay.
Lehman/You mentioned a little earlier that none of you were familiar with the concrete -
Widness/No, it wasn't none of us --
Lehman/Oh. But that you did research. Did all of the members of the Commission
have an opportunity to see this and know what it was prior to their vote?
Widness/At the first meeting, six of the eight members, at the first meeting after the
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discussion about fiber-cementboard, six of the eight members had the opportunity
to see it. By the final vote, I believe that everyone had seen this material.
Lehman/Everyone had seen it? Okay. One other question. Is vinyl siding, would that
be allowed in any place in the District? In other words, if I have a house, I want
to re-side my house, can I do it in vinyl siding?
Norton/Yes.
Widness/Yes. As long as you have an existing structure. We have nothing in our
ordinance that I know of to prohibit vinyl, to prohibit the use ofvinyl siding.
Kubby/You don't need a permit.
Norton/This sounds --
Kubby/You don't need a permit to re-side your house, and so you wouldn't go in front of
the Historic Preservation Commission.
Norton/This sounds to me like discussion the substance rather than the process, folks.
Thornberry/Trying to get to the point, Dee, is, was the decision arbitrary due to the fact
that they have approved other substances for exteriors '-
Van/ No, no.
Lehman/I don't know that that's true.
Thornberry/I thought you said that --
Dilkes/These-~
Thornberry/Now wait a minute. I thought she said that other, like vinyl for example,
has been approved in a historic --
??/No.
Thornberry/Well wait a minute -- in a historical district for garages and other buildings.
Widness/Oh, okay.
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Thomberry/Did you not say that?
Widness/That's true.
O'Donnell/Because they're not visible from the street.
Thornberry/I understand that.
Widness/In a historic district, siding requires a building permit.
Thornberry/Right.
Widness/And in the past, there have been, I believe, four instances in which synthetic
materials, including vinyl, have been allowed for garages and outbuildings not
visible from the street.
Lehman/But not on houses.
Widness/But not on houses.
Lehman/We have never allowed vinyl siding on houses.
Widness/I have not been on the Commission a long time.
Lehman/No, but to your knowledge.
Widness/To my knowledge, no.
Norton/That's certainly wrong. I can name an address where there's siding. You have
no requirement, you can put vinyl siding, he can put wood on that siding and put
vinyl tomorrow.
Widness/That's true.
Norton/But that's a substantive question, it seems to me. It's not a matter of process.
Thornberry/What do you mean, Dee?
Norton/Because I'm interested in the question of did they follow the guidelines.
Lehman/Right.
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Norton/Yeah, that's the question.
Thornberry/Well what do you mean they can put wood on it and then put vinyl on it the
next day?
Kubby/Because they won't, once --
Norton/Because they don't need a permit.
O'Donnell/Because they don't need a building permit for siding.
Norton/That's one of the massive inconsistencies we have to consider at some point.
Not, in this case. Ultimately, later, I think we have to really straighten that out
because it's a massive inconsistency right now.
Van/It's a later conversation.
Norton/Yeah, but that's something later. We're dealing with, did they -- I wanted to ask
you the question, how about the guidelines, did you find the guidelines, whether
you talk about the Department of the Interior ones or the ones that were
articulated by the City in 1990, lacking in speaking to the question of new
construction in these areas?
Widness/No. The local guidelines do talk about new construction specifically.
Norton/Well I had a lot of trouble finding anything specific about materials.
Widness/Well, they're pretty generic. I mean, they talk about being compatible and
harmonious. And we on the Commission talked about this point. Does it mean
we have to match siding for siding? Betty Kelly made the point that you do have
to consider materials. In fact, the Secretary of the Interior standards does talk
about being harmonious with the materials themselves. But Betty's point was that
you have to go beyond that and you have to look at the character of a
neighborhood. And so you might, and I'm not saying this would happen, but it's
possible that you would have a different material that would be allowed in a
different neighborhood. This neighborhood, Summit Street Neighborhood, is
arguably the most elegant neighborhood in Iowa City, historic neighborhood in
Iowa City. If you go to the Northside Neighborhood, it's a wonderful
neighborhood, but you certainly get a very different sense of the kind of people
who live there and the kind of buildings that are there. So it really would not be
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possible for the Commission to say that we're always going to require wood in
these historic districts. Our job is really to consider the context of each one of
these issues.
Norton/I won't carry on very much longer, one could carry on endlessly on this matter.
Widness/And we do, almost.
Norton/What I'm curious about is, when I look at the guidelines, and I'm not suggesting
the Committee didn't follow them, I think they did as best they could, all I'm
saying is I find the guidelines rather vague on the matter of materials. That is,
they speak to the matter of visual appearance a lot. In most every case about the
materials, they talk about visual appearance. So my question gets down from what
angle, from how far away, how informed do you have to be to distinguish these
two things. And I do think that the guidelines need to be sharpened up. I think
you did the best you could to interpret the guidelines as you read them. But I
would fault the guidelines considerably myself.
Widness/Well, a number on the Commission really feel that way. And this has really
been, I think the first test. I mean, this is a very new Commission. Many of the
members have just come on in the last, I've been on it 18 months, and there I think
have been four members since me, three or four. So this has really been the first
test of how to apply these standards. And there is agreement that it really is not
an easy thing to do.
Van/Did you have really any conversation about the serviceability of the various
materials?
Widness/We did, we did.
Champion/A lot.
Van/In--
Lehman/That's in --
Champion/It's in the --
Thornberry/A bunch.
Van/Well, it's in there, but in terms of the guidelines is what I'm trying to get out.
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Widness/In terms of the guidelines.
Van/That's what I found lacking when they start talking --
Widness/I was just going to say, I don't recall that the guidelines really address that
issue.
Van/
Yeah. That's one of the places that it seems to be missing for me. So, like you say,
you had no standards to work with on the new material at all, and only your
experience of the other materials.
Norton/Given the lack of specificity in the guidelines, it almost invites arbitrariness. It's
really a tangled web here. Because you know, they're talking about you know, a
piece of siding that's come off of an old structure. You want to, you don't want to
put a piece of tin in there. That's pretty clear in that situation. But brand new
construction from the ground up is just really not specifically considered.
Donald MacFarlane/I'm Donald MacFarlane. I live at 620 South Summit. My house
does have an addition on the back which does have sidings on it. Clearly, it is not
arbitrary and capricious of the Commission to vote in favor of wood siding on this
house. I think you would all probably agree, having seen vinyl and seen the
impact that has on the visibility of the house, that it's not arbitrary and capricious
of them to vote not to have, not to have vinyl. I sat through, as many of the
neighbors did, a very long, detailed discussion about the merits of this concrete
fiberboard, and a piece of concrete fiberboard was passed around amongst the
public, and I think through the Commission members. So I think everybody was
fully informed about this. I was very struck by the care with which the
Commission member addressed this issue. They talked and agonized at some
length over whether the guidelines were helpful or unhelpful in this regard. They
delved into what information was available about this new fiber concreteboard
that was available and about the pros and cons. I got the sense that there was
some sympathy for this material, but it was untried and un-trusted, and in my
view, it is not historic. I mean, we don't have a history on this. What the purpose
of the Commission is is not to please the applicant, but in a sense, is to please the
applicant's children. That is, the historic entity that is created as a result of their
effort should be pleasing not immediately, but to a future generation who says
"My goodness, Iowa City did a good job of preserving Summit Street." Within
that context, I don't think that any case can be made that the Commissioners were
arbitrary or capricious. Let me also address the question about whether it's
appropriate for the Commission to say you can't put on siding, even though some
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other entity says it's okay to take off siding and put on vinyl. What we're looking
at with a Historic Commission is an intent. It's something intangible. It's
something which we find of great value but we can't measure it. The intent is to
increase the historic value of this. The Commission is not charged with other
aspects of this intent. For instance, I can put on siding on my house and allow it
just to go to rot. That clearly would decrease the historic value of the
neighborhood. The Commission has not power to come to say to me -- at least I
don't think they do -- to come to me and say hey, you've got to maintain your
property. In other words, the people who live in these houses build them as best
we can and maintain them as best we can. And we look to the Commission to
encourage our neighbors to do the same things. I think once Mr. Houser has built
his house, which incidentally is a far better design than it ever would have been if
there had not been the Commission, when Mr. Houser has built the house with
wood siding on it, he'll be rather pleased with it. His children will be very pleased
that he created an entity of value. And he will maintain the wood on it. I don't
think he'll take the wood off and put on siding. So the intent of the Historic
Commission will be justified, even though there may be some leakage in the law
not relating specifically to historic preservation. I think all of the neighbors, I
mean you heard it earlier on, are very proud to live on Summit Street. We're very
proud to support this. And I would point out to you that this is a way of
enhancing our town which doesn't cost the taxpayer a penny. So, please support
our Historic Commission. Please support Summit Street. Please decline to
overrule the Commission in this regard. Thank you.
Thornberry/I guess I only have two problems with redwood.
Lehman/(Can't understand).
Thornberry/I understand that. My house has -- I'm just talking about where it isn't brick,
it's redwood. And the two problems with redwood is, number one, I've seen those
redwood trees, and I think it's a shame that they have to cut down redwood trees
to get redwood. And the second thing is, the woodpeckers love it. And, but I
don't think that --
Kubby/Those aren't issues in our purview tonight.
Thornberry/In my view then, there's nothing arbitrary or capricious to override.
Eleanor Steele/Hi. My name is Eleanor Steele. I live at 710 South Summit. And I
wrote you a letter addressing the subject that you're speaking about tonight. I
wanted to know, first, ifI could get a clarification from somebody. If we are not
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discussing whether something went on that was arbitrary or capricious and we
should limit our discussion to that, and you decide that there was something that
was arbitrary or capricious that went on, will we be invited to speak again to
support a certain position?
Lehman/My understanding is that if we find that the action of this Commission was
arbitrary or capricious, the Council then will have to go through the entire
process.
Steele/I see.
Lehman/That the Historic Preservation Commission went through: reading all of the
information, going through all of the guidelines, and coming up with a non-
capricious, if you will, so, no, I do believe that if we do find that this action was
not appropriate, that you will have an opportunity to speak to us again.
Steele/Good, great.
Dilkes/I'm sorry. I have to --
Lehman/Disagree.
Dilkes/Disagree for just a minute. You have to read all that material very carefully even
to make the initial decision.
Lehman/Well.
Norton/Well, yeah.
Thornberry/I've read what we've got.
Lehman/Yeah, well we get --
Thornberry/I do that all the time.
Steele/But for clarification, I should not be speaking about my opinion on this matter, I
should reserve that if you decide that there was an arbitrary or capricious decision.
Lehman/That's correct.
Steele/Okay. I do want to say that I have a background in architectural history and
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historic preservation and so I understand the Secretary of the Interior's standards.
And I realize that they're very difficult to understand. And when you're looking at
the decision that was made by the Commission, and you're looking at the
standards that they are supposed to apply, I'm sure it looks very difficult. The
rules that the Commission is given, the national standards, and the guidelines that
were written for them, are intentionally vague. That is a part of the process that is
supposed to be in place when making this sort of decision. And it has been ruled
by the courts that the way you make them less vague is through a series of
standard-setting decisions and by, the other way that you make something that
seems very subjective like the set of rules that the Secretary of the Interior
provides, is by objectifying them by looking at the surroundings. So it is perfectly
appropriate to decide a siding material, based on those siding materials that are
currently in existence within the district. I know that's (can't hear) to me. I just
want to say that I sat through the whole process, and I believe that the
Commissioners were very careful in making their decision. I understand that you
all have to go through the process yourself and read the material, and agree or not
agree with me on that. I do want to say I support the Commission. It's a very
intelligent group of people who took this decision very seriously, in part because
they knew that if they did decide to use, require wood, this meeting would be
going on here. So it was a very serious matter for them, and I think that they were
very careful. And I hope you decide to support their decision. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Steven Kanner/My name's Steven Kanner, and I live at 1111 Burlington. Just listening
to the member of the Commission speak before, and not really being informed
before this evening about this event, it does appear to me to be arbitrary or
capricious in her explanation of whether or not the cement siding was appropriate.
She didn't say that it was inappropriate for fitting in with the surrounding area.
And that seemed to be the criteria they were looking at. They were making
decisions that are perhaps best left to building inspectors and City inspectors, to
see if it meets general code. So, I would think that their decision did have an
arbitrary and capricious nature to it in going beyond perhaps what their scope
should have been. Because it appears that they admitted that the cement would fit
in with the surrounding historic area. And so I don't wish the Historic
Commission to overstep their bounds in what they're assigned to do.
Ruedi Kuenzli/I would like to correct the previous speaker. The reason why -- my
name is Ruedi Kuenzli and I'm living at 705 South Summit Street. I would like
to correct the previous speaker. The reason why the Commission, I'm not a
Commission member, but as I heard Michaelanne Widness present her, the
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Commission's result, I heard that the board, this concrete board, or this concrete
fiberboard was not allowed not so much because of how it looked, but one didn't
look, but one didn't know how it would hold up in this climate. And the
Commission didn't want to introduce (??) that. I would like to mention that yes,
there are some houses on Summit Street that have aluminum siding. That siding
was put on before there was ever a historic district, and before there was every a
Historic Commission. There have been houses where this aluminum siding has
been taken off. And that has been an intention, I think, in the Historic District.
There has been nobody in the Summit Street Historic District who was faced with
almost impossible problems of repainting the house. That means having ten
layers of paint, cracked paint. Painters would say the only way you can do it is
cover it with vinyl siding. There was nobody who has done that. And there have
been to my knowledge five or six houses that were in that predicament. The paint
was burned off to the raw siding, to the wood siding, and freshly painted. And
that is simply a spirit, I think, that people have at that, who live in that street who
feel that you would never want to put vinyl siding on that house.
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-106, SIDE A
R. Kuenzli/In any historic district. The first new building. And I think that the
Commission is absolutely correct in enforcing and being guided by the 1990
regulations that were adopted by the City Council by saying that these buildings
and the material has to be in union and harmony with contributing structures of
the historic district. It means those that make up and that are contributing in
material to the historic district, and with about 80% of the houses that have wood
siding, it seems to me that the Commission made exactly the right conclusion.
Thank you.
Brad Houser/Hi, my name is Brad Houser. And again, we're the owners of the property
that has asked for the request. It's my feeling that they did act outside of the scope
of what they are, as far as guidelines. They did do it, I mean the Council, or the
Historic Preservation Commission did a great job and we had no problem working
with them. But when it got into the siding issue and cost and what's going to
happen down the road as far as maintenance, for us, for future, and you know a lot
of things were brought up today as far as you know, how would the fiber cement
hold up? Well, it comes with a 50-year warranty. What's the 50-year warranty?
None of us will probably know. Very few of us may even be here at that point.
Thornberry/I will.
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Houser/You will be? Okay, good. Still right there, right? You know, but wood siding
is something that typically has to be painted every five, ten years at most. Fiber
cement may or may not have to be. If we're going to talk about longevity of
product, then we should talk about vinyl. Vinyl will be there and it will stay there
for 20, 30, 40 years, depending on the quality of vinyl that you're using, too. Our
property that is in question that we're dealing with here is surrounded by vinyl.
We have vinyl on the south which was done about a year and a half ago on a
garage that is visible, in my opinion, a little bit from the street. It may not be as
visible now with our building going up, but it was highly visible before. Our
property at 803, before we purchased it, was in vinyl. I had sent you guys a letter
in regards to a property on Bowery Street that is in vinyl. Actually two that are in
the Historic District. One, even I can't tell, necessarily, until I get up close, that it
is vinyl. It was done with a restoration series vinyl. That's what we had talked
about with the Commission. It was actually not myself that brought up the hearty
plank or the fiber cement material, it was John Shaw who had brought it to us,
who was acting on behalf of the Board as the architect in charge. I was familiar
with fiber cement because I just used it on my house, on some parts of it. It has, I
mean, it has some nice merit. It kind of replaced the old masonite siding which
the Historic Board talked about, and the problems that occurred with it, because it
was paper and glue, whereas this is paper and concrete. And the problem with the
glue is that it ended up causing a mildew action over the years. My first home I
owned had masonite, so I'm familiar with it. And one of the reasons we didn't
choose it was because of that, because I knew the down-the-road maintenance
issue. You know, as far as setting real high standards, I think it's not necessarily
the fault of the Historic Commission as it is the guidelines. There aren't any
guidelines. As it was brought up by Dee, we could put siding on and then I could
turn around and put vinyl over the top of it one week later. As soon as we get our
accuracy permit, we've met all the guidelines. That's not our intention. Our
intention was to try and work with the Historic Preservation Commission, make
something from my intent, or my idea that was when you're standing at the street,
which we're 50 feet away from the street or sidewalk, actually the sidewalk, is to
make our property look like it's historical. It's not historical. It's a new property
in an old neighborhood. But we're also surrounded by some properties that are
not historical. There's two properties to the south which were in-fills in, I'm going
to guess, the early '60s, late '60s. I did differ with one of the things where they
were talking about vinyl siding again being in the neighborhood only in one place.
We have vinyl, of course. There are some properties on Bowcry. There's other
properties that have aluminum siding. Some of them have slate siding which are
again properties that are not from the 1920s or '30s or what, kind of the time point
we're talking about. Let's see, what else was I going to say? I think, again, we're
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kind of setting a standard here. And the question is, what's going to happen when
somebody else wants to put up an addition on, or put up another garage, are we
going to not allow them vinyl? Are we going to not allow them to use other
materials? And redwood's getting harder and harder to come by. Quality
redwood, because the trees are getting preserved more, which is good, but at the
same time, our materials are not as good as they were in the '20s. Woods are
shipped for a longer distance, they're not stored as long, they don't dry as well as
they used to. So, consequently, the material we're going to end up using, if we do
wood, is going to be probably more subject to long-term maintenance than some
of the stuff even in the '20s. Now, do you, I guess my next thing is, do you guys
have any questions for me?
Norton/Are you still talking vinyl windows?
Houser/Yes. The vinyl windows were okayed by the Commission.
Norton/Does that seem like an inconsistency?
Houser/Well, it's an inconsistency that we weren't allowed to use vinyl on the garage
either, and fight next door it was, a year and a half before.
Norton/How about hardy plank around the windows, the trim around the windows?
Houser/That's what my original intention was, was to use the hardy plank as a, or the
fiber-cement, as an alternate around the windows, because I think it looks better
than, long-term, than using the vinyl or aluminum wrap.
Kubby/But these issues are really not --
Norton/Yeah, no, that's right. But I'm trying to get at where are the guidelines? At issue
here is where in the guidelines do they turn to say that vinyl windows are okay but
vinyl siding is not, for example. Now what I'm getting at is, there's, I understand
there's interpretation when they say you must not compromise the historic
character of the district. But it never says much about materials. That's what
bothers me.
Kubby/Well, I can, I'll make some arguments later that are different than how you're
interpreting things.
Norton/Okay.
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Houser/Well I think the problem is that there aren't really any guidelines. Not for new
construction. It's very, very, very vague. I mean, and again, that's not the fault of
the Historic Preservation Commission. But one of the issues was technology
changes and products change. That whole neighborhood consisted of either tin
roofs, slate roofs, or shingled roofs at one point in time. Drive down the
neighborhood and take a look at how many of them have it? I think Mike's
property on Sheridan which is not in the Historic District is probably the only
property that has wood shingles on it. And he chose to do that recently. The
Mercer Mansion which is the all-brick structure, has slate. Our property actually,
at 803, has a tin roof on it. There are very few properties which have what is the
original. If we're going to go back to everything being original, then it should be
everything, no asphalt shingles, everything should be original. And it's not
possible. Technology changes, products change.
Lehman/I don't think that we're being asked to say whether or not we agree with what
they chose or whether they were right or whether they were wrong. I don't know
that we're, obviously (can't hear) decision or not. What we're being asked to
decide was were they arbitrary or capricious in their actions? Not whether it was
a good idea or a bad idea. And the things you're mentioning, obviously some of
these things occurred prior to even the Historic District, and some prior to this
Commission even being there, which is why I asked earlier have we given permits
for vinyl siding for homes. And the answer was no, that they have not given
permits for that. They're not required to. No, our scope is pretty narrow. You
know, whether or not it's a good idea isn't really our scope. It's did they act --
Houser/My argument is that I think they didn't act necessarily. I think they went beyond
their boundaries.
Lehman/Yeah, but were they arbitrary or capricious?
Thornberry/Well, Emie, it does say --
Kubby/I think --
Thornberry/That the City Council must consider whether the Historic Preservation
Commission has exercised its powers and followed the guidelines established by a
law and City Code. Well when there's no law to follow, or if they're so vague that
they have nothing to follow, how can you say they didn't?
Houser/How can you say they did? It's an equal thing.
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Champion/I'd rather finish the public discussion before we have discussion among
ourselves.
Lehman/Right.
Dilkes/Mr. Mayor, saying that they exceeded their boundaries or exceeded their
authority, I mean, that's consistent with an arbitrary or capricious stand. I mean, I
don't --
Lehman/Okay.
Thornberry/Yeah.
Dilkes/Another way of saying it.
Lehman/Thank you.
Cecile Kuenzli/Just one comment, again. The grounds for Mr. Houser's appeal to you
are that he has been, are on financial grounds. That it's going to cost him $8,000
to $12,000 more to put wood siding on. And yet the fact remains that he's getting
a tremendous deal in this house because the price that he's quoting per foot, the
cost of building, cost per square foot is $69 a square foot. According to the City
Housing Inspector, Doug Boothroy, the average cost in Iowa City is $100 to $130
a square foot. I don't know how he's doing it, but I'd like to know. He also saved
some money because he didn't put in, I said the foundation --
Dilkes/Mr. Mayor, I'm sorry --
Lehman/This has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
C. Kuenzli/Okay.
Michaelanne Widness/I just would like to respond to the gentleman whose point was
that the Commission failed to discuss the fiber-cementboard in terms of how it
looked. In terms of trying to hit the highlights of these hours of discussions, I
couldn't bring up everything. But as the minute will clearly reflect, there was a lot
of discussion about whether this really mimicked the look of wood. And at least
three Commission members felt it really did not.
Lehman/Is there discussion among the Council? I'm reluctant to close this p.h. until
Council discusses this briefly, and then as a Council decide whether to continue or
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to close it.
Dilkes/Yeah, I don't think you should close the p.h. until you decide whether, until you
know you're ready to make a decision.
Lehman/Right. So, discussion from Council. Karen?
Kubby/Well, I'm ready to make a decision, and so are you wanting us to explain why we
are ready to make a decision and what that decision is, even though there's not a
motion on the floor?
Dilkes/I think you should have a discussion about whether you need any additional
information to make your decision.
Kubby/I need no further information to make a decision.
Thornberry/I don't, either.
Lehman/Well, is there other discussion from the Council?
Champion/Well, I thought the minutes and the letter from the Historic Preservation
Commission were, I think they put an incredible amount of time and thought into
this to make sure they were following the guidelines. And I disagree with you,
Dee. I think the guidelines are general, but they're very specific about
compatibility. And I mean, I was one that had doubts about this, but after reading
their notes and the minutes, I'm impressed at how well they did and how they
really tried to follow, or did follow the guidelines and the law. And I just want to
thank them for what I think is an outstanding job.
Norton/Well, I have no difficulty with the job they did. I agree that they did the best
they could and made the judgments they had to make, and referred to the
guidelines such as they had. So, that's where we're at, so I'm not going to disagree
with that. I just think there's a lot to be done yet in the guidelines. It may not
affect this case, but it sure will have a beating on future ones, in my judgment.
Lehman/Is there any member of Council who requests any further information on this?
Do we, well, we have to close the p.h.
Dilkes/Close the p.h. If something changes, I mean, if something changes and you do
need more information to which the public needs to respond, we're going to have
to re-set the heating.
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Lehman/Right.
Dilkes/So I'm hoping you're ready to make a decision if you're going to close the p.h.
Lehman/Are we ready to make a decision?
Van/I'm ready.
Champion/I am.
Lehman/P.h. is closed.
b. CONSIDER A MOTION DECIDING
Lehman/Do we have a motion?
Karr/May we have a motion to accept correspondence?
Kubby/So moved.
Van/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Kubby, seconded by Vanderhoef. All in favor- (ayes). All opposed-
(none). Motion carries.
Kubby/I move that we -
Norton/I move that we accept the recommendation of the Commission. Is that the
proper motion?
Dilkes/No, it would be a motion to affirm the decision of the Commission.
Norton/To affirm the decision, okay.
Kubby/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, seconded by Kubby, that we affirm the decision of the
Historic Preservation Commission. Discussion?
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Dilkes/Now this is the point at which you need to very clearly articulate your findings
and the reasons for your decision.
Lehman/I think this is the point, is this not true, this is the point that if we choose to not
affirm, we need very specific reasons as to why we do not affirm the
recommendation?
Dilkes/I think either way you need very articulated, you need to articulate your reasons
clearly.
Kubby/Well, I'd be happy to start.
Lehman/Go ahead.
Kubby/I'm going to vote in favor of upholding the Commission's recommendation. In
reading all of the material and looking at the regulations, there are some
regulations that would point to looking at the middle-ground material, the fiber-
cementboard, and some regulations that would have you go to looking at wood.
The vinyl's not even a question for me. That was very clear, the record was clear.
So, in looking at the regulations that would move a Commission member towards
talking about the fiber-cement and finding that acceptable, some of the regs talk
about an aesthetic equivalent. I think that's part of the Interior, the Secretary of
the Interior's standards. But the other regulations talk about compatibility again,
and authenticity. And so the record shows that there was some disagreement on
the aesthetics of the fiberboard as well as the technical aspects of the long-term
viability of it. Eight out of eight people saw the fiber-cement siding, so there was
full discussion on that. So when there are some regulations that might point you
in various directions and it was a four/four vote, that means that reasonable people
can disagree about that. And that how you guide, how a decision may be guided
then is by looking at the surroundings which are dictated by the regulations to do
that. To look about, to look at the surroundings in terms of the contributing
structures as well as the materials in the totality of the district. And when you
look at that, especially the contributing structures, there's not much variation in
the materials. It's brick and wood are the major materials there. And so it seems
very clear to me that the Commission did not act in an arbitrary or capricious
manner in following the rules and looking at the facts. And I want to endorse their
recommendation.
Champion/Rather than just repeat what Karen has said, I agree with her. But I think
they went beyond that, as I think they seriously considered altematives, and
decided that they did not meet the standards that they were held, that they were
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held to.
Thomberry/Somebody else go.
Lehman/Any further discussion?
Norton/Oh. I would like to add one, a couple of comments. I certainly made the
motion, and I certainly commend the Commission for the terrific effort they put
into this enterprise and how they're, because some of the changes that were
recommended, for example the elevation of the foundation and the nature of the
porch and so on, I think there were a lot of features that were, in my judgment,
greatly improved by their cooperation with the Commission. But what I want to
point out just for illustration in the guidelines, for example, when it talks about
roofing materials, these are the local guidelines, it says "roofing materials shall be
consistent with the style of the building, and should also be consistent with the
predominant materials used on surrounding buildings." Now that says, and it goes
on to point out to take the ones that are contributing structures, not just any old
structures. So, it was pretty clear there on roofing. But it says nothing about that
when it comes to siding, or when it comes to windows. So I find the guidelines
need to be improved vastly, in my judgment, for a Commission not to have to go
through quite so much agony as they did in reaching a decision. And I think that's
something we need to attend to and ask the Commission to make
recommendations to us about those guidelines.
Kubby/And I tend to maybe disagree with that. Because what the job of the
Commission is is to look at the context in which the building which is looking for
a certificate is sitting.
Norton/The guidelines say to do that.
Kubby/You know. And so if the guidelines are too specific, you don't have the
flexibility to work with the applicant to look at what is surrounding them and
what is, what are the contributing structures.
Norton/Well, my judgment is that the guidelines tell you to do that and tell you to look
at the contributing structures. That's fine. But say something more about
materials and how far away are they supposed to look the same and so, do you
have to go up and feel it to tell if it's one or the other? Or, if it looks, if nobody
can tell, it would be bizarre to make a decision that way. So I just think the
guidelines leave too much room for misunderstanding on the part of the person
trying to put an in-fill structure in. Nothing, no problems I think if they're
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repairing a building or adding a piece to a building. That porch has got to be, you
can't put plastic balustrades where wooden ones were. But anyhow, I think the
Commission did the best they could under the circumstances, and I'm going to
support their decision and the motion that I made.
Lehman/Further discussion?
Van/I
have a little concern like Dee does with the lack of specificity in the guidelines. I
think the Commission did a wonderful job. I commend the builder for his
working with the Commission and making this building look more and more like
the historic district. At a later time, I would like to have a meeting with the
Historic Preservation Commission or just talk to some of them, and think about
some guidelines as we move forward to putting some more historic districts in
place in the City. But I'll leave that for a later discussion. But I will support the
Commission. I think they did a fine job, and thank you.
Thornberry/I think also, that when, when the Historic Preservation Commission has got
the iron glove over the purview of new buildings within their district, I think
they've taken extraordinary care in seeing that that preservation has been
preserved, even in new structures. I don't understand, I guess, too much how they
came to the conclusion that some other material, other than wood, could not, or
cannot be used in a historic preservation area, and still approve vinyl windows.
There are Anderson windows that are wood, but they're modern. You can't really,
I don't know if you can even buy the old windows that didn't work anymore.
Champion/You can have some made.
Thomberry/You know, with the weights down the sides and all those.
Norton/Like my windows.
Thomberry/But as things progress, I hope that we can preserve, in fact rm a big
proponent in the new area that the City is trying to get built on the upper
Peninsula Area, that it's going to reflect that period of housing. But I don't know
if the requirement is going to be 100% wood. And that may be a conversation
that the builder would have to have with somebody, I guess. But I don't know if
wood is the best material to use. But there are other, you know, there will be
other things and the new vinyl has got to be very nice looking stuff, as opposed to
the vinyl siding that first came out. So evolution is going to play a part in this,
and so is the new wood, as the individual mentioned, that the old wood was good
wood. The new wood is fast-growing trees, and it's just not as good a wood. And
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I, but I think they could have gone a little bit further in preserving the
neighborhood as far as saying the bric-a-brac would be nice, and this type of
structure would be, but anyway, I think they did their job. I think they did what
they were supposed to do in preserving the neighborhood. I grew up just a half a
block from there, and it's always been a nice neighborhood. Not that there aren't
some nice neighborhoods in other parts of town. But I can support that. You live
in a nice neighborhood.
Lehman/Thank you, Dean. Thank you. Very briefly, it appears to me from what I've
read, and certainly I'm (can't hear) --
Thornberry/Oh, it's a bunch.
Lehman/Yes, I read a lot. It appears that certainly the guidelines were followed. And
whether or not we agree with the decision I don't think is particularly relevant. I
was particularly impressed and I asked the question whether or not all of the
members of the Commission were familiar with the various types of siding
materials that were considered, and we were told that they were.
Thornberry/They looked at them.
Lehman/I was also very interested in whether or not other types of siding would be
permitted by that Commission in the historic neighborhood and we were
obviously told that they were not. I guess I cannot see where their decision is
arbitrary or capricious. Not that I agree or disagree, but I think that it was
appropriate. Any comments?
O'Donnell/Well, I think they went above and beyond in doing this job. And I'm like
Emie, I'd, I'm not, I can't really say whether I agree or disagree with it, but I do
believe you did your job. So, I will support it based on what Connie and Karen
said earlier.
Lehman/Roll call-
Dilkes/It is a motion, but I'm going to this by roll call vote
Champion/I'm sorry, I need to have the motion repeated to me.
Lehman/To accept--
Council/To affirm the decision.
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Champion/Okay, thank you.
Lehman/(Roll call) - (ayes). Take a break for five minutes.
BREAK
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ITEM NO. 10 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION REPEALING RESOLUTION 96-264
AND ESTABLISHING THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AS A STAFF
COMMITTEE.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #10).
Thornberry/Move adoption of the resolution.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion?
Norton/Yeah. I want to express a few thoughts about this matter. I understand the lack
of support at the moment for a Design Review Committee, and this difficulty that
it's had grappling with the number of tasks that it's had. One of those tasks, in
addition to working on signs, and projecting signs, and urban renewal parcels and
so forth, and those the staff can take over easily. One of the jobs it had was to try
to identify design guidelines for different sections of downtown. Perhaps for CBD
and for the (can't understand). And I would hate to see that effort disappear.
Because I think those guidelines would be useful, educationally if not by firmer
methods would be useful to have on hand. Now I know that's going to be a slow
job and one that they might not give the high priority, but I would like to make
sure that that's included in their work is to try to establish such guidelines. And
they're going to need them in other areas, too. I think they're going to want them
for in-fill apartments. I think they're going to want guidelines for entranceways.
So, I would think the staff might want to give some attention to that. I would
hope we would not give up the importance of design review simply because we're
switching it from the committee which has been grappling with perhaps too large
a task and assigning it to the staff.
Thornberry/Dee, I agree with you. I think that design review in its process is necessary,
but I think that's done and can be done and already is being done to a certain
extent already through staff, through the process of permits, etc. The original
intent of the design review, as you know, was for the downtown area in urban
renewal. And when it was first, when it first came into being, it was supposed to
have a sunset clause when the last parcel of downtown urban renewal property,
and correct me Karin if I'm wrong, in its inception, it was supposed to have the
sunset clause and go away. There is still one property left in urban renewal, a 64-
1A property, but I think they've done their job. I think it's time to move on and let
staff do that without the hoops required, but still the design review, the design
process is done by staff anyways.
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Lehman/Well, I don't want to disagree with you, Dean, but we are not changing anything
other than the process. One was done by a citizens committee. This would be
then the same exact duties being performed by the staff.
Norton/But then we're going to need to review, we're going to need to give some
thought, maybe not now, but I think shortly we're going to need to give some
thought to the question, how much staff effort is going to go into this question of
trying to articulate design review guidelines for specified sections of town as
provided in our Overlay Design or the Overlay process. I, and I think that they're
going to find that they need some other help again. And rather than have a
committee take the initiative, maybe they can do it and call in an expert, or maybe
even hire a consultant, whatever they need to do to get some guidelines down
there that people might, now how we enforce those guidelines, whether just by
building permits or some other gyration, we have to rethink, that, too. I don't
want to lose the impetus to keep design review as a high priority for the City.
Thornberry/I don't think we have. I think Planning (can't hear).
O'Donnell/I'm ready.
Norton/Somebody draw a little blood there.
O'Donnell/I'm ready to follow staffs recommendation on this.
Lehman/This isn't cast in stone.
O'Donnell/No, it's not.
Norton/Okay.
Champion/I just have one comment.
Thornberry/The committee was set up, the citizen committee was set up for urban
renewal.
Lehman/I'm well aware of that.
Thornberry/Okay. But I think the process can continue without having a separate (can't
hear).
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Lehman/And that's what we're saying.
Champion/Well I don't think we're trying to get rid of design review itself. I'm not favor
of getting rid of the committee because I do think that if we have to have more
guidelines developed for, what are we talking about, if we have to develop more
guidelines, I think those should be developed by citizens of the community and
not by staff. And so I have problems getting rid of this commission. And I'm not
going to vote for it.
Kubby/I'm also --
Van/I
have had some concerns about this and thought about it several different ways.
And citizens, yes, belong in the process for some of the greater projects that Dee
was alluding to for areas. And I've been watching the Commission right now
struggling to stay focused and on-task and having enough people there when it
needs to be done. And I listened to staff last night talk about the things that they
can do that are basically almost done as they go through their planning up front,
that it wouldn't take any time. So where I'm coming down on this whole thing is
that I think the Commission should be disbanded, and when we have a need for a
district, then I'd like to see people from that district, with staff, be put together in
an ad hoc committee and come forward with recommendations to Council for
their area.
Norton/That was the way it was to happen before. The Commission was to talk to 80%
of the people in that area, to agree on the guidelines. And the guidelines were to
come to us and be blessed, and that would establish a design review district. And
then it would be implemented by the committee reviewing it. Now what I'm
afraid of is that to tell that the staff is going to do this, you're going to come back
almost to the same thing. And the staff may take the initiative and that may be
better.
Van/I think you misunderstood me. Let's see if I can articulate this better.
Norton/Okay.
Van/What I'm saying is that we've got a Commission that would be looking at many
different areas, meaning a whole lot of work to do. And as I read their minutes
over the last two and a half years, different people were assigned to do certain
kinds of surveys and get this information and all that stuff. So it was broken
down so it was a heavy-duty job for one person. And meanwhile, the committee
was looking at different areas and different people were gathering different
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information. What I would rather see than come down to one or two to do this, I
want to see when we are ready to work on a district, we will put together an ad
hoc committee for that district. People who are interested in that district. And it
can be a combination of staff, people who live and work in that district, people
who are of the persuasions of architecture and design and all those things. Put
them together, we'll get the best people, and a lot of times you can get people to
work on those kinds of things because they have a special interest for them. You
also can get people to work on those kinds of committees because it has a start
date and a completion date. And not a four-year stint on design review.
Kubby/The problem for me --
Van/And that's why I would prefer to go this way.
Kubby/The problem for me with that line of thinking is that there has to be a catalyst to
make that happen. And we heard from staff last night that they can handle doing
the projecting signs and they can handle doing the vending carts downtown. But
nothing is going to get initiated above and beyond kind of the skeletal duties of
the Design Review Committee. And that we, how the catalyst will happen,
without a committee, I believe, and this is just my little crystal ball in my own
little head, is that some piece of property south of Burlington, for example, or in
the downtown, will get redeveloped, and many people will find it horrendous, and
that it's not very compatible with the things around it. And that will be the
catalyst. And I prefer to prevent that kind of situation. I believe that our current
committee has really low morale because of a perceived lack of support from this
body, from previous Council and from this Council. And I believe that design
review in this community should have an evolving role. I like the idea of them
going above and beyond their original intent of looking at urban renewal parcels,
of looking at other downtown properties and south of Burlington when we were
trying to guide redevelopment in that area. And one of the ways you do that is to
get people talking about what are the properties, what are the commonalties of this
area, that area. And it's not going to happen with staff. And they just don't have
the time to do that. And a citizen committee, there's a whole nother reason for
me, why I'm interested in the citizen commission on this particular issue, and that
is that we've been starting to do a lot of decision making at an administrative
level, which I think for some things is a really logical and efficient way to go. But
it also puts a burden and a lot of power in the hands of staff. And I think on some
of these issues that are very judgmental, that it should be a citizens commission
doing that work. And so I'll be voting no to the decision to disband the Design
Review Committee. I support the role of the committee, and an evolving role for
the committee, and hope this fails and that we get people recruited.
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Norton/Yeah, I'm really nervous about seeing this thing slip. Maybe we can get another
vote here.
Lehman/I would trust that should this pass that we would be kept informed by staff if
we have difficulties in handling the job that is currently being done by that
commission.
Kubby/There's not going to be anything that's initiated, that's new, or --
Lehman/Karen, I don't agree with that. Because I see so many things that we look at
that go through staff, and staff certainly does look at design. And they don't
always agree with us, or with, even with each other, or with commissions. But I
think staff does look at design. They're very, very conscious of design.
Kubby/I didn't say they weren't. I'm glad for the individual staff members we have that
Norton/Blow the whistle for some. Look, if someone doesn't put reinforcing bars in a
cement wall, they might get gigged and not get a permit. But if they come in with
some horrendous structure that meets all the technical requirements and somebody
says hey, that's really ugly, they're not going to get anywhere trying to enforce
that. Let's face it.
Lehman/I think they have, historically, gotten along pretty well.
Norton/Well, they might try. But I think, by and large, it doesn't have much teeth in
that.
Kubby/But the beauty of what we were trying to do with south of Burlington was to
have these guidelines set out ahead of the redevelopment, so that the people who
owned property or who would be purchasing property, knew what the rules of the
game were before they started playing it, instead of having something happen and
staff brings it to us, and says you know, we'd like to change the rules of the game
for the future based on this project. That's not how I'd like to see our city do
business.
Norton/And it's the most common complaint we get, "How could that happen?".
Whether that's downtown or elsewhere. And you'd say well, let's see what
happens.
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Thornberry/If that's the most common complaint and we've already got a Design
Review, what difference does it make?
Norton/Because they don't have any power yet.
Kubby/Because they don't have the purview over those places.
Norton/We haven't established a district yet.
Thornberry/You said that's the most common complaint.
Norton/Not only there, other places.
Lehman/Is there further discussion? Roll call- (yes; Norton, Champion, Kubby, no).
Motion carried, four to three.
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ITEM NO. 11 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ARCHITECTURAL
CONTRACT AND AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND CITY CLERK
TO ATTEST CONTRACT FOR ARCHITECTURAL SERVICES FOR THE
IOWA CITY LANDFILL SCALE HOUSE AND RECYCLE CENTER.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item # 11 ).
Karr/Mr. Mayor? I apologize, could we have a motion to accept correspondence for that
last one?
Kubby/So moved.
Van/Second.
Lehman/Oh. Moved by Kubby, seconded by Vanderhoef. All in favor- (ayes),
opposed- (none). Motion carded.
Thornberry/Move adoption of the resolution on item #11.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry.
Kubby/Second.
Lehman/Seconded by Kubby. Discussion?
Kubby/I'm really excited that we're doing this. I mean, landfill scale doesn't sound that
exciting, but it's all the other things that we're going to get with this that are much
more exciting. Kind of a one place to go to get rid of all kinds of recyclables,
compostables, white goods, so that the hazardous waste is dealt with properly and
the metal is recycled and having demonstration projects on alternative fuels, I
think is very exciting and would have a great round of welcome from this
community to learn about those issues. And all these things. And for me, one of
the biggest things is the household hazardous waste facility. I have had some
concerns about the location of where we're going to do this. And it seems like
anywhere we put it is not incredibly accessible in terms of being in the middle of
town. And so I've come around to accepting this location because one stop will
let you do stuff that goes in the landfill, stuff, yard waste to be composted, white
goods, tires, all the household recyclables, and household hazardous waste. And
so the cost of getting out there, I hope, will be worth the benefit of all of that plus
the demonstration projects of alternative fuels. So I will support it.
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Thornberry/I have one question, Emie.
Lehman/Yes?
Thornberry/You may know this. Where they're taking their old oil and so forth now, on
South Riverside Drive, that's going to be gone. The little sign in there, must be
delivered in one-gallon containers. Will that still remain, that they have to give it,
put it out there in one-gallon containers, or will it --?
Lehman/I'm sure that's a technical issue that will be addressed. I have no idea what the
facilities will be, but I don't think it'll be anything inconvenient for the public.
Steve Atkins/And, to remind you, and to remind the public, that dealerships who
provide services that provide oil have an obligation, unfortunately most of the
dealerships say oh, the City will go take care of it for you. By law they have an
obligation to offer recycling, actually, at the dealership.
Thornberry/You mean you can take old oil back to K-Mart.
Atkins/Yeah, basically you can, yeah. You can say I purchased it here, it's now yours.
They have an obligation to take it.
Thornberry/Hmm. Didn't know that.
Kubby/The other thing that was discussed last night that the Mayor had brought up was
making sure that we invest in educational materials to make sure that people know
about everything that's going to happen there. So I really hope that, that we do
more promotion of these services.
Lehman/Yeah, I think that's a good point. And I share Karen's concern about the
location of this facility. It is not to me as attractive a location as perhaps other
locations might be. However, it's where the people are, it's where the landfill is,
and we have been so, and some people would disagree with this, but we have been
so successful with the public accepting recycling from residences, we are now
moving into commercial and multi-family. I mean, this is the wave of the future.
We will recycle. We may go kicking and screaming into the next century, but we
are going to do it. And this is going to be a facility that will accommodate all of
the kinds of things that we are talking about doing. And you're right, Karen, we're
going to promote this. I mean, I think if people know that we have the ability to
take care of hazardous chemicals, not just once a year by appointment, but three
times a week, I really am very optimistic that people will be enthused about this.
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Van/In the meantime, I'd like to take the opportunity to educate our public fight now
about the fact that the public works facility on Riverside Drive does not accept
paint, oil, household waste, and so forth.
Lehman/Tires, batteries.
Van/
We saw pictures last night that must have had, what do you suppose, 40 different
things that had been dropped off there? Tires, batteries, none of those things go to
that facility. It's oil. And read the signs, please. And it will save our staff a lot of
time dealing with trying to keep that cleaned up. It's a hazard to the community to
have it sitting out there. And we would appreciate you waiting for our hazardous
waste days to dispose of that material.
Norton/I wanted to add one of the concerns I had when we discussed it in some detail
last night was the additional cost that might be involved. Now apart from the
capital cost of replacing that building. But I think we were reassured that we can
manage this new facility with the same people being in different locations or
doing more than one job. I think that's --
Atkins/It's great.
Kubby/Right.
Norton/Wonderful that we can do that. Because I was certainly concerned that with this
expansion of service. But we're doing all these things, it turns out, inefficiently
and in different places now.
Kubby/Right. It's one of the trade-offs for having it at this site is that we don't have to
duplicate staff to serve on other sites. And one other thing that I just want to say
real quick is that another service that will be offered in this household hazardous
waste facility is a substance exchange. I don't know ifthat's the right word.
Atkins/(Yes).
Kubby/Toxic exchange. If you just need a little bit of Brasso, you don't have to buy the
whole thing and have another container of Brasso to deal with. You can go down
there, and someone may have dropped off a half a thing of it.
Thomberry/Or paint.
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O'Donnell/I think what this does, it lets you, it's one stop shopping. You can do
everything at one location.
Thornberry/Take everything out there.
O'Donnell/And another nice point that was brought up last night is that small pickup
tracks do not have to drive clear down into the valley of no return. So, I think this
is a great one.
Champion/Let's vote.
Lehman/Okay. Roll call- (yes). Motion carded.
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ITEM NO. 12 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROV1NG THE COLOR OF
EXTERIOR AWNING AT 115 E. COLLEGE STREET.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #12). This is the location of Gringo's. They'd like to
replace their old awning with a new one.
Thornberry/Move adoption of the resolution.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion?
Kubby/Well, last night we saw a picture of what is currently there and had some
material, a sample of the awning material. And we're not approving the Design
Review Committee's recommendation because there aren't enough people on there
to have a quorum. So we're kind of acting as the Design Review Committee in
voting on this. And so right now, the current color of the awning matches well
with the color of the brick and the current colors of the Gringo's sign. I think it
looks really nice. I don't mind the contrast between the green with the black little
stripes. I think the material is nice, and it would, it's a fine contrast with the brick.
But I think it clashes with the color of the sign. So I asked if they're going to
repaint their sign to match the awning?
O'Donnell/Karen, that's where I think you're wrong. I think this is a perfect match. I
think it looks real --
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-106, SIDE B
Kubby/It is, and I'm asking for information so I can formulate my opinion.
Norton/It's capricious and arbitrary, folks.
O'Donnell/I've already seen it. I think it's gorgeous.
Karr/I did check with the staff member, Jim Schoenfelder, who indicated that the sign
would be changing, and it would --
Kubby/So it'd be greens and blues, kind of, to match the awning?
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Karr/And the reason that it's not before you is that the Design Review looks at
protruding signs only, that not being a protruding sign would not be subject to
review.
Lehman/Wouldn't have been, would not have been reviewed anyway.
Thornberry/Not effective.
Lehman/How about the beer sign in the window?
Karr/I think it'll stay the same.
Lehman/They're not going to change the color of that, either?
Karr/Or the beer.
Lehman/Or the beer.
Champion/Okay.
Van/Thank you.
Lehman/Other discussion? Roll call- (yes). Motion carded.
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ITEM NO. 13 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS TO ACT ON THE CITY'S BEHALF IN
APPROVING APPLICATIONS FOR THE PLACEMENT OF INFORMATION
GUIDE SIGNS BY THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #13).
Van/Move adoption of the resolution.
Norton/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Norton. Discussion7
Thornberry/How many signs is this going to be?
Lehman/I don't know. But I think this is an example of the City and University working
together.
Atkins/Case by case basis, right.
Lehman/Yes.
Kubby/So it's like signs that say this is what this building is, or this is how you get to
Arkins/There's a number of informational signs you'll see around town. A lot of them
are in the fight-of-way. Some of them aren't as attractive as they should be. They
need to be located better. This allows Chuck discretion in '-
Thornberry/ This just brings up a point that I'd like to make as far as all these signs going
up. Share the Road, all of the other, not that I disagree with the signs, it's just that
my God, we're getting a lot of signs here and there.
Arkins/Yeah.
Thornberry/And it's --
Kubby/There's a song about that, isn't there?
Norton/They're going to fewer downtown, though.
Thomberry/Boy, there's a lot more signs than there used to be here and there. I mean,
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they're all over the place.
Norton/Well, there's a lot more no-nos now.
Lehman/Yes.
Thornberry/It's even the positive signs like Share the Road. Watch Your Speed, then
there's the Speed Limit sign, and then there's, you know.
Norton/I thought you were going to say you didn't want a sign to go up on the
crosswalk, on the skywalk.
Thornberry/I'm just saying there's getting to be an awful lot of signs around.
Norton/Can they put a sign on the skywalk?
Atkins/I--
Lehman/ They can do about it what they want to.
Atkins/As I understand it, they can do about anything they want with that skywalk.
They can hang their laundry on it, I don't know.
Kubby/So, with this discretion, Chuck can say no, too. Correct?
Atkins/Oh yes, absolutely, yeah.
Thomberry/This is a skywalk.
Atkins/There's a sign I haven't seen in a long time. A friend of mine from another city,
and the sign says "Don't Even Think about It".
Lehman/Where can we put those?
Van/You have that on your door?
Lehman/Okay. Roll call- (yes). Motion carded.
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ITEM NO. 14 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING FEES OR ASSESSING
COSTS FOR CERTAIN SERVICES PERFORMED BY THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #14). These are relative to confined space rescue team, and
Kubby/Move adoption.
Thornberry/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Kubby, seconded by Thornberry.
Kubby/For rescuing you.
Lehman/Rescuing me from this confined space. Discussion? Is this the one --?
Kubby/Where they can buy into it or they have to pay a big fee if they don't.
Norton/Right.
Van/It's a designation.
Thornberry/Kind of an insurance deal.
Lehman/Any further discussion? Roll call- (yes). Motion carded.
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ITEM NO. 15 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION REPEALING RESOLUTION NO. 96-11
OF THE CITY COUNCIL FOR THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND
APPROVING A NEW RESOLUTION SETTING FORTH RULES OF ORDER
FOR THE CONDUCT OF FORMAL COUNCIL MEETINGS.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #15). This resolution would change the agenda that we
have for Council meetings, allowing public discussion until 8:00 in the evening,
and then resuming after the end of the formal agenda, at whatever time that would
happen to be.
Thomberry/Move adoption of the resolution.
Van/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion?
Norton/Will there be a sign-in arrangement? I mean I've been concerned about the
public coming down and trying to talk before the 8:00 deadline and then having to
go back and wait till 10:00. Now will there be some method of signing up?
Van/I think that's worth considering, Dee.
Norton/So they can know when they're going to get on, roughly, either before 8:00 or
after 10:00.
Thornberry/Well we start fight at, it's going to depend on how many proclamations there
are and things like this. But there usually aren't that many. It doesn't last that
long. And if they, if they've got a five minute limit, they can pretty well see how
many people that are wanting to talk if they're on the sign-in sheet.
Norton/Well if there is a sign-up sheet. That's what I mean.
Thornberry/Yeah.
Norton/How did we do that before, Marian?
Karr/Well, we do it the same way as now. There's never a guarantee on what time you're
on the agenda.
Norton/Could people come in and sign up before the meeting starts?
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Karr/Do you want to allow pre-registration?
Norton/And talk in that order?
Karr/That's a Council matter.
Lehman/I think that would be a big mistake.
Champion/Right.
Lehman/Big mistake. We put people on the agenda, they don't know whether they're
going to come up at a quarter to eight or a quarter after eleven. I don't know why
we would give preference to someone who hasn't even got --
Norton/Well, I'm not really in favor of this, but I'll be willing to try it for awhile.
Champion/I think we should try it.
Lehman/We can always change it back, that's no problem.
Champion/Experiment.
Thornberry/Yeah.
Kubby/Well, I object strongly to this new resolution. And I'll try to articulate my
reasons why. This came up because there were two large issues where we had
lots and lots of people here for public discussion. And they were both issues
where the public, I believe, were attempting two things. One is to be heard, in
that they didn't feel that they were being heard very well, so they kept coming
back. And secondly, they were trying to make us accountable for our action or
our inaction on some particular issues. And it hasn't really happened. This really
hasn't been a problem except for two issues: when Eric Shaw was killed, and
when we were talking about the SEATS stuff. I think those are the two that come
to mind as the big issues. There have been times in the past where the
proclamations and other ceremonial functions that we have at the beginning of the
meeting, and the consent calendar discussion lasts after 8:00. And with this
resolution, we could not choose to have any public discussion at those few times
when that happens. And so I want to caution the Council about that. It doesn't
happen very often, but neither does public discussion lasting hours happen very
often. And there are things that we might be able to predict. And I guess another
way of dealing with this issue is that when there are those kind of issues that we
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know the public is wanting to be heard by us, that we could have a special
meeting or meet earlier or meet, or have that part later, to talk with the public
specifically about an issue. The other strong objection I have is that because we
don't guarantee people when they're going to be on when they are here for an
agenda item, I've heard Council members say like somehow that the people who
are here for a specific agenda item are somehow more legitimate or have some, or
have more importance because they have something at stake, because they have
something on the agenda item, and specifically about development issues. Where
at the last meeting when we talked about this, people talked about developers, or
builders and or their lawyers. And so what's happening here is that we're making
somebody wait. We're either making someone who has something at stake either
mostly financially, or the general public has to wait. We're going to be here the
same amount of time, although actually I think we're going to be here less time,
because people are not going to wait around for that later public discussion time.
People have to be at work in the morning. People have to put their kids to bed or
lose out on that time with their families. And I think that the few times where the
folks who have something financially at stake have to wait an extra long time is
not worth the inconvenience to the general public who comes down here to speak
with us. And what I, I think that what we're trying to do is be efficient and fair.
But I think what it ends up being is kind of elitist government. And I don't think
that that's what people are thinking about. But I think that that will be one result.
And therefore, I will strongly vote "no" on this new experiment.
Lehman/Karen, let me just respond briefly to you. To me, this is a great deal like lying.
People buy tickets to get on their airplane, they make their plans, they're going to
go somewhere. And they get to the airport, how would you feel if you had a ticket
to go to San Diego and you got to the airport and the standby passengers flew first
while you waited?
Kubby/You're just making my point stronger. That I don't think that people who have
an item on the agenda are any more important than the general public who we
work for. And that they have a right to speak. And that I believe that those
issues, because they're not, generally, long comments, should be done first. And
not the people who have something at stake in interacting with local govemment.
Because most of what they have at stake is a positive financial something at stake.
Lehman/Well some of these are financial and some of these are not. But I just think it's
common courtesy. You have office hours. You expect people to see you during
your office hours. You asked last night that when we discuss the sales tax again
that it be first on the agenda rather than something else. I think it's a matter of
running an efficient meeting as well as we can. And I do think, I really think, and
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by the way it can be changed back, that's not something that can't happen, we've
obviously already changed it. But I do think that folks who have items on the
agenda, they also have kids to put to bed. They also have to get up and go to
work the next moming just as much as anybody else from the public. They have
every bit as many rights and privileges and whatever as somebody walking
through the door. And I don't think that it's appropriate that when they have a
reservation, that they get to the end of the line.
Kubby/But they're not guaranteed a time. They're not guaranteed that seat.
Lehman/No, no.
Kubby/I guess they're guaranteed that eventually they will be heard. But they're not
guaranteed a time. And they know that public discussion is ahead of that. And I
think it just sends a really negative message and a bad reflection on this Council.
Norton/Can I ask or interject, did you, did we used to do it the other way?
Lehman/Yes.
Norton/For awhile?
Kubby/It used to be after P/Z.
Norton/A few years ago we changed it back. Emie, could we maybe, I appreciate both
points of view. I'm, and I'm kind of torn about where to go. If we know that there
is a hot button issue afoot, and we do ordinarily have some feeling for that, not
always. I think Karen's point that we ought to sometimes, perhaps, have a special
meeting to which that's the only matter, would be a very wise move. I think we
should have done that perhaps in the past a few times. So that, because it's just a
terrible thing to mix a very emotional issue as those often are with routine
business.
Lehman/I don't disagree. Is it possible at the beginning of the meeting to suspend the
rules and change the order?
Karr/It's possible any time during the meeting.
Kubby/Sure.
Lehman/I mean, we could at any given time, if we have an issue that the public brings to
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us that we feel is important enough that we feel we should take more than the
8:00, we can do that anytime we want. But in the absence of that, at 8:00, we
would then start the regular agenda.
Van/
And the same goes with one of the other things that Karen brought up is that when
we happen to have something that goes very long with a lot of proclamations and
you know, sometimes we have basketball teams and it takes, we could suspend
the rules for 15 minutes extra if that was the case for that date, if we choose to do
that.
Lehman/I don't think the intention is in any way, shape or form to limit public
discussion.
Van/It is not, for me, it is not to shut them off. No. It is not.
Kubby/And I don't believe that that's your intent. I do believe that that could be an end
result. And I guess one of the ways to mitigate that is that Marian kind of goes
out to the audience to see if anybody's here for proclamations, maybe she could
get just a show of hands of people at least at the moment that she's asking to the
group how many people are here for public discussion. Because, for example, let's
say it's 5 to 8:00 and there are just three more people who need to speak. I say
let's let those people speak so they can go home. And I don't know if that's it, but
let's just think about some of these logistical --
Lehman/I don't disagree with that, but we have --
Kubby/Issues. I think we're just --
Norton/Well why couldn't we just have a sign-up sheet where they, when they come in,
they indicate whether they intend to talk.
Lehman/Well I think, Dee, I like that idea, except that there are folks that, some hot
issues are going to come down, and fill that list in at 5:00 and take up all the time
that there is. But I think we've all sat here and listened to public discussion where
it took place for an hour, hour and a half, hour and 45 minutes, and there wasn't
anything new said after the first 15 minutes. And that's all on the same subject.
And I don't like listening to something that starts at 7:15 and goes till 9:00 and
basically saying the same thing. If those people are passionate enough to come
back after public or P/Z matters and continue that discussion, I have no problem
with that.
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Kubby/That's not what the resolution says. It's after, it's after, it's fight before Council
time. So it's basically the whole meeting, not after P/Z, just to be clear about what
the resolution is revolving on.
Lehman/And I don't have a problem with that.
Thornberry/I don't, either.
O'Donnell/I don't, either.
Lehman/Roll call- (yes; Kubby, Norton, no). Motion carded.
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ITEM NO. 16 CONSIDER A MOTION GRANTING A 45-DAY EXTENSION TO
THE POLICE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD FOR THE FILING OF REPORT
WITH THE CITY COUNCIL ON COMPLAINT #98-12.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item # 16).
Norton/Move.
Lehman/Moved by Norton.
Kubby/Second.
Lehman/Seconded by Kubby. Discussion7
Thornberry/They need more time to look at a, at an item. Is this the same item they
wrote a pretty harsh letter to the Police Department saying hurry up7
Lehman/I don't know. I don't know that that's the reasoning. I'm sure they need the
time or they wouldn't be asking us.
Kubby/They asked the Police for more information.
Thornberry/They also have to understand that sometimes the Police Department might
need a little bit more time also, and they came to us to get and extension of time.
They've got to understand that other entities might also need more time.
Karr/Mr. Mayor? This is the first time that the Council has received an extension for
this particular request, so it's for additional information for this particular item.
Thornberry/Okay.
Kubby/It's a different one than the one that you're thinking about.
Lehman/Other discussion? Roll call- (yes).
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ITEM NO. 17a ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES - Current vacancies.
Lehman/(Reads agenda item #17a). And this is an excellent opportunity for people who
want to become involved in City govemment and in the community to serve the
people of this community. So I certainly encourage anyone who has interest to
contact the City Clerk and make application for those.
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ITEM NO. 18 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
Lehman/City Council Information. Who would like to go first?
Champion/I'll start.
Lehman/Connie.
Champion/Well I just wanted to mention that I really did enjoy touring the City's
facilities and I'd like to see the rest of them. And I hope people who have an
opportunity to do that should do it. Because I'll tell you, I was really impressed.
The other thing that I have to talk about, and I don't know what we can do about
it, but I'm hoping we can get a committee or something to help us deal with the
litter and trash in Iowa City. And the, I think when you have, when sidewalks
start getting littered and grass starts growing up through the cracks and along the
curb, people are more apt to throw stuff and leave litter behind. And I've been
walking more the past couple weeks because, well I think it's because I've been
down here more. But it's, I've been walking up Iowa Avenue, and it really is kind
of sad how littered the sidewalks are, and how much glass, broken glass is on the
sidewalks and how much grass. And I'm not talking directly in front of
businesses. I'm hoping maybe the Downtown Association can help address some
of that, about sweeping sidewalks in front of your business. I'm talking about
City sidewalks on City property, or following City roads. And when I drive down
the highways and see the grass growing up in the medians, the City's starting to
look unkempt to me. And I really, I don't know if anybody feels like I do about
this, but I think if the City were more picked up and better maintained, people
would start throwing less trash on the ground. Did I make myself clear?
Norton/We've been trying the Green Machine and everything else. And one reason
we're trying to fix up Iowa Avenue is to deal with some of that issue you pointed
out, when that sidewalk gets in it'll make Iowa Avenue easier to take. But that's
part, that's been a big effort downtown, I thought. Wouldn't you say, Steve?
Atkins/And I would say to you, Connie, you know, give me specific locations and we'll
move on them.
Champion/Oh I know that if I call you complaining about sidewalk, something's going
to be done about it. But it's, it's not just one area. It's like, Dean always
complains about the grass growing out of the medians on Highway 6. And that's -
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Norton/We have that on our list.
Champion/Put it on our list. And I'm not putting blame anywhere. But there's a lot of
streets, we've built a lot of streets and a lot of sidewalks. But I would like to see
us get some pride. I mean, when I was in New York City, I'm sorry, the sidewalks
in New York City were cleaner than Iowa City. And you tend to throw, even like
cigarette butts which are a terrible nuisance since you can't smoke inside, so
there's more cigarette butts outside. Which is fine.
Kubby/Yeah, how are we doing out here? We doing okay out here?
Champion/Yeah.
Kubby/Good, good.
Champion/Well we don't throw ours on the ground. But when you have a lot of trash on
your sidewalk, people throw trash on the sidewalks. And if they're clean, and I
don't know how we ever get them clean, but what I'm asking is if anybody has any
suggestions. Or give some thought to it, about how we could approach this from a
community standpoint.
Thornberry/Signs.
Kubby/Well, you know --
Champion/It's not just our problem.
Kubby/We just met with some of the University administration, Mike and Ernie and I
did today, at an informal discussion. And one of the things they talked about was
students doing more cleanup and beautification projects this year. And so that
would be one route to go.
Thornberry/No littering.
Champion/Well maybe we can talk about it there.
Kubby/And maybe we can help direct where they put their energies. Give them some
suggestions.
Lehman/And I think, Connie, also, you know, certainly we do our best with the limited
resources that we have from the City standpoint. But I think it would be very, very
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well to encourage folks don't throw the glass on the sidewalk. Don't throw the
paper down. I mean, I think we need to encourage our people to be neat and
clean, don't litter. You know, if they don't throw it there, we don't have to clean it
up.
Thornberry/We can hand our fliers.
Lehman/Hand out fliers7 Oh lord.
O'Donnell/They'll end up on the ground.
Champion/More signs, Dean.
Van/Karen, is the agenda set for our meeting with the Student Senate7
We have a full agenda and a focused agenda.
Kubby/Yes.
Van/Okay.
Kubby/
Norton/
Basically safety issues.
Where are those packets? Don't we have packets to hand out?
Karr/We're going to do that on Friday with your other packets. Do you want them this
evening?
Norton/Oh, a packet of materials?
Karr/Yeah. We're going to do it on Friday with the packet.
Norton/So you'll get an agenda and some reading material for the weekend. They could
have them sooner, couldn't they?
Karr/Yes.
Norton/If anybody wants one, stop in?
Karr/Yeah, we could do it tonight if you wanted to.
Lehman/Anything else?
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Champion/I'm done.
O'Donnell/There's a lot of people who walk dogs downtown. I don't know if anybody's
every noticed some of the, some of the remains, but I think that's pretty disgusting
down there.
Lehman/Most of them are pretty good about picking it up, though.
O'Donnell/Well, some of them aren't, Emie. I've seen it.
Lehman/Okay.
Thornberry/I've got two things. Two quick things. One's real quick and the other one
there might be some discussion. But, I got a flier in the mail, learn to save a life,
CPR Sunday is October 4, 1998. And it's flee CPR training at the Carver-
Hawkeye Arena from 11:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.. Free CPR training, Carver-
Hawkeye Arena, 11:00-4:00 p.m., October 4th, it's a Sunday. For information,
call 356-6013 or go show up. They'll show you how to do CPR. The second
thing, and last thing that I've got. My eyes were opened last night when a couple
of people came to our meeting and explained about some party houses that were
in existence in Iowa City. And I'm afraid that this is probably going to escalate
since the fratemities and sororities have non-, no drinking in them anymore. I
guess all of them do it now. They're starting this year. And what some of them,
what some of the people are doing is renting houses and throwing their parties
there and disrupting the neighborhood. And there was one residence that was
pointed out to us last night that there were 30 complaints about one particular
house, and only \two arrests, or two citations given out in those 30 times. And I
just think we're going to have to do more to keep these, to keep the neighborhood
integrity from going into party houses and having some of the things, the horror
stories, actually, that we were told about last night, with throwing glass and
walking around with baseball bats, etc., etc. So I don't know. I think the Police
Department is going to have their hands full.
Van/I guess I just have one thing that I'd like to put in here. You mentioned the
sororities and the fraternities, and I guess I would just like to say all young people,
whether they're students or non-students, in some of those places that I don't really
know who the people are, but the party houses are there and I'd rather not identify
a group.
O'Donnell/Well they're not necessarily all young people.
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Van/That's possible, too.
Thornberry/Well, the majority, I think, are under the age '-
Lehman/ Well they're drinking.
O'Donnell/Well our concern is the underage drinking. That's our concern.
Thornberry/Well not just that, but it's --
Van/ And we do need to address these houses.
Thornberry/It's the problems that the neighbors are having with those parties. It's not just
the underage drinkers, it's a lot of other things, too. It's public, disorderly, I mean
Norton/Well aren't we taking some steps to enhance our Disturbing the Peace ordinance
or Disorderly House ordinance that's underway. I mean that's something that we
can do. But there's certainly more to be done.
Thornberry/That's all I have.
Van/Okay. I'd just like to remind the citizens that we are, we have kicked off the United
Way campaign for 1998, and Joyce Left is our campaign chair and our very own
Clerk, Marian Karr is the co-chair. And heading up the public service division.
Thank you for doing that. And I'd like everybody to consider giving. You'll be
approached by many different people in many different areas, and please give to
our City. Thanks. That's all I have.
Norton/Well I can take up there. Dean and I started yesterday by participating in the
United Way Golf outing.
Thornberry/We did.
Norton/We contributed our money and a few low scores, but not maybe low enough.
Van/Did you contribute golf balls, too?
Norton/We got golf balls, instead, yeah. But we had a good time.
Thornberry/I won a prize.
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Norton/What'd you win?
Thornberry/I'm not going to tell you. I won a prize, that's enough. That's the '-
Van/ The booby?
Champion/The booby prize?
Thornberry/No, I won a free lunch at Hardee's.
Norton/Uh-oh.
Thornberry/If you really want to know.
Lehman/Truthfully?
Thornberry/Yeah.
Kubby/Enjoy!
Norton/Well now, I just wanted to comment on a couple of things. Tomorrow, I'm,
Mike, are you going to the poverty simulation tomorrow?
O'Donnell/What time is that, Dee?
Norton/9:30, is that it? There's, the extension division up in Ames is sponsoring a
poverty simulation from 9:30 to 12:30. I didn't mean to make it humorous, but it's
to give you a little feeling for what it's like. So I'm going to give that a try, and I'll
report back how it's like.
O'Donnell/I'm going to try and be there.
Norton/Oh I didn't mean to put you on the spot, I thought you had said something.
O'Donnell/Yes, I did.
Norton/The, the Student Senate meeting that Karen will probably mention, too, that
comes next Tuesday at 6:30, is that the date, the 291h? At 6:30, in the Richey
Ballroom, that's the ex-Triangle Ballroom, now the Ritchey Ballroom on the third
floor of the east side. And I say that you can pick up those materials from Marian.
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Now she has packets for each of you who will be at a table with nine of so
students, however many the end up with. And I think you should want to look
over the materials because we're talking about lighting issues, we're talking about
walk and ride safety issues, and we're talking about Police issues. And there's
some data in there that you'll want to look at ahead of time. When I mentioned to
Steve, and someone mentioned tonight. The Park Hotel thing is really a pretty
fantastic job in my estimation. I have not toured it. I saw somewhere that some
tours are going to be held. But I think Mike and whoever else was involved in
that, and Steve has made some contact I think, we need to do something to
recognize that. It's just fantastic.
Kubby/I assume they will be nominated for a Historic Preservation Award.
Norton/They certainly should be. People just walk by and say they just can't believe
that they did that. And it was within a week or two of the wrecking ball, wasn't
it? At one point.
Champion/Yeah. Oh, it was --
Lehman/They even got an extension on the wrecking ball.
Norton/That's right. Well, I think that deserves a lot of praise for Mike Hodge and
others who might have been involved in that. There is a meeting tomorrow night
for some people in neighborhoods, in the Grant Wood neighborhood, in the
Weatherby Park neighborhood, and Pepper~vood neighborhood to hear, that
meeting I think is at 7:30 at Grant Wood School, but confirm that please. But at
any rate, to hear about some proposals for development in that general comer of
town. And I'd also, we have to be there, but I want people to be there and hear
what is being proposed and react to it. It's an important, important step. I think
maybe that's all, all I have. I'll finesse some other issues.
Kubby/I had a few issues. When we approve our consent calendar at the beginning of
the meeting, I saw all these kind of housekeeping things, and every single meeting
in the last year, there's been a release of a lien for a property because the City has
lent, we have money to lower-income households to do housing rehab, and then
that money gets paid back, or they've followed the terms of a forgivable loan and
the lien is released. And so, to me that means the program's working. And we
found out in the last week that we got another $120,000 for homeowners' rehab
for emergency repair, exterior repair and residential accessibility. So if you meet
the income guidelines and you live within the City of Iowa City, and you've lived
in your house for more than a year and you need some emergency repair, exterior
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repair or residential accessibility, you should call Pam Bames at 356-5128. And
that's another way that we maintain the integrity of neighborhoods is to make sure
that our older housing stock that is owner-occupied is maintained well. And it
also is a public health and safety issue as well. So, it's really great to receive that
extra money. We decided to go with the epoxy paint for the markings on the
street, and they're starting to go down. And one of the side issues I never even
thought about asking about is that they sandblasted the old paint off. And so
there's like paint residue all over the streets and flying around that could become, I
mean it's a particulate matter in the air. When it rains, it's going to go into the
water, into our surface waters. And so, is there a way we can talk to our
contractor to like vacuum? I don't know what the solution is.
Atkins/A member of your family spoke with me a little before 5:00.
Kubby/You mean a constituent of mine?
Atkins/A constituent of yours spoke to me about it.
Kubby/We were complaining about it together today.
Atkins/And 1 promised that constituent that I would find out what the details are and that
I would get back to you.
Kubby/So if other people see this yellow dust, it's not a gold rush, it's just paint that
we're replacing. Just two other quick things. One is that the new lighting
downtown on Dubuque Street, the quality of the lighting is really wonderful. The
atmosphere that it creates. Have any of you ever been to Stewartville, Iowa? It's
noah? And you go down that street and there are all these lights, and it's like
really obnoxious.
Norton/Stewartville, Minnesota, isn't it?
Kubby/Oh, It's Minnesota, I'm sorry, yes.
Van/On the way to Rochester.
Noaon/Someone sold them an extra bunch of lights.
Kubby/They sold them like three times as many lights as they needed. And when I first
saw Dubuque Street, I felt a little inkling of Stewartville. And I think there's two,
well we did College Green Park, the light fixtures themselves are beautiful, the
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atmosphere it created was beautiful, but the glare, it wasn't the quality of the light,
well to some extent, there was too much quantity of light in that instance, in that I
lost my night vision for a minute because my eye just went to those bulbs. And if
there's a way that we can put some of the screens on the maintain the quality of
the light and to direct the light to where we want it, but not have that glare, I think
it would even improve the atmosphere that it's creating. And the atmosphere is
one of safety as well as aesthetics, when I talk about atmosphere. And I feel like
there, like every other one could be taken out and we'd have plenty of light to
create that atmosphere. And I'm kind of worded about, like Ernie said that there
are some Council Members that have talked about doing that kind of lighting
someday maybe all the way down Dubuque as an entranceway, and don't want to
do that if it's that many lights. So, I guess I want to talk --
Norton/We'll evaluate it.
Kubby/Yeah, go down and look at it. And it's not, it's kind of this bluish light or
something. It's really nice, but it's kind of glary and maybe too much for my taste.
Champion/How did you correct the ones at College Green?
Atkins/Screens.
Lehman/Unscrewed the bulbs.
Kubby/Well, we did unscrew a bunch of bulbs, actually.
Norton/If I remember, a lot.
Kubby/But we put these filters.
Atkins/We put a filter on it.
Kubby/That you can get. And it doesn't, you can't see them, so it won't like denigrate the
beauty of the fixtures.
Champion/I knew it was corrected, but I just couldn't remember how it was done. But
that, - -
Norton/You couldn't even sleep, Karen, in that neighborhood.
Thornberry/I think, Karen, it needs to be quite bright downtown for safety concerns.
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And I don't know ifit's too bright or not. And I haven't heard any complaints.
But I'll sure take a look at it.
Kubby/Yeah, it's the glare that's the problem for me. But if you all would take a look
and I'll bring it up again.
Van/How about some meter readings?
Kubby/Well I don't, --
Champion/That's not the problem, though.
Kubby/I mean, yeah. Because, there's, I mean we're going to learn a lot more about light
pretty soon, because I got an update from John Yapp about the lighting
performance standards and that there's all these, it's just physics, you know?
Thomberry/A whole bunch of lumens.
Kubby/And I don't really understand it. So --
Norton/We'll get some big shades and put 'em on there.
Kubby/Anyway, I think it's too glary down there. And the last thing is, that it's the time
of the Jewish New Year. I just wanted to wish everyone Happy New Year. And
the Day of Atonement's coming, so be prepared.
Lehman/Thank you. One thing that I'd like to mention. There is the annual City Human
Rights Commission is taking applications for the Human Rights Breakfast. The
applications have got to be in by 5:00 this coming Friday. The breakfast will be at
7:30 at October 22nd in the Triangle Ballroom of the Memorial Union. Pastor
Reginald Blount will be the speaker. This is a really, really nice event. Obviously
we would encourage people to attend, but certainly would encourage people to
nominate folks for this lovely event. So --
Karr/Anyone attending, let me know and I'll put in your reservations and handle it as a
block.
Van/How about for the Chamber?
Karr/I haven't done anything yet, but I can also do that, sure.
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Norton/Is that for the 15th?
O'Donnell/I have one thing.
Lehman/Mike has one thing.
O'Donnell/In our packets is a letter from Fire Chief Andy Rocca, and it's regarding the
Hazardous materials truck. This problem goes back to when Dee served on this
Commission, that I now serve on. And the City's part, Steve, I believe that our
part in this is we contribute $.25 for every person in Iowa City?
Atkins/Yes. Everyone else does, too. It's per capita.
O'Donnell/For hazardous materials protection.
Atkins/That's correct.
O'Donnell/And what we have now is an old, retired, outdated delivery truck that we're
using and it's come time to replace this. So, I wanted to make everybody aware of
this.
Thornberry/Are we going to need it, Mike, with the new facility out there?
O'Donnell/This is different.
Norton/This is for spills.
O'Donnell/This is for spills.
Thomberry/Oh, I see, I see.
O'Donnell/And we have a safety issue here. This thing is top-heavy and we're putting
our people in this truck, and we need a new truck at this time. And we have for
quite awhile.
Norton/But everybody's going to contribute. I mean, all the community's put in $.25 a
head. What's it going to go up to?
Kubby/$.75.
O'Donnell/We're going to go up to $.75. And still, there's many communities our size
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that are well above that.
Kubby/So, Mike, will that come back to us as a resolution at a future meeting to vote
on?
O'Donnell/Yes, it will.
Norton/I thought everybody paid $.25 a head.
Atkins/They do.
Norton/And that will go up to $.75 a head.
Atkins/Right.
Van/Everyone will.
Norton/Everybody. Not differentially, okay.
Atkins/Depending on the --
O'Donnell/We're concerned about Iowa City.
Atkins/Depending on the time you would issue it, it could come back as a resolution or
we could incorporate it in the budget. Either way you'll be seeing it.
Kubby/Oh yeah, that's what you said last night, budget.
Norton/Yeah, when I left it was going up to $.50, Mike. Now we're up to $.75.
Van/Are we going to get another?
Thornberry/Procrastinating, huh?
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ITEM NO. 19a REPORT ON ITEMS FROM THE CITY MANAGER.
Lehman/Steve, do you have something?
Atkins/Yes, one item. Usually, when a public official compliments a member of the
news media, the news media guy is busy rushing around looking for another job.
But I wanted to thank Jim Jacobson of the Gazette for a story they did. Sunday's
Gazette called "Heavy Trash Pushes Limits". It was not only very well written,
but it put in very factual terms just the work that our folks do in the refuse
collection division of the Department of Public Works. And everything is correct.
We spent almost $300,000 in Workers' Compensation claims in the last four years
for those folks, far and away our greatest exposure. We have some television
spots that I've noticed have started to air today, using our folks trying to explain to
people the importance of don't take those cans and load them up. Because
somebody inevitably gets hurt. The medical waste, the things that they find in
there are in some respects, I think the public, it's almost unconscionable that they
would attempt to do that when there are other ways to dispose of these materials.
But this is a year-round service. No matter what the weather is. And we estimate
that they make around 1,300,000 stops per year. So, it's a very high-profile, very
positive service. And I just want to thank Jim and the Gazette staff for putting
together a really good story.
Kubby/And thank all those employees. That's a hard job.
Atkins/It's a very hard job.
Kubby/It's a really hard job.
Thornberry/Steve, I have a question regarding that very thing. How are, I understand
that the maximum size of a container is what, 30 gallons?
Atkins/35 gallons, 50 pounds.
Thornberry/How do you know if you've got 50 pounds or more?
Lehman/Can you lift it?
Atkins/Well, yeah.
Thornberry/Well, I mean, some people can lift 50 pounds rather easily and some people
can't.
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Atkins/I understand that. I mean I can tell you, I've seen the crews do it.
Kubby/They know.
Atkins/They know.
Thornberry/But how does the homeowner know?
Lehman/Get your bathroom scales out.
Atkins/Yeah, I really don't know, Dean, how to handle that, other than if you have, if you
are having trouble, if you're having trouble taking 50 pounds to the curb, you'll
know it.
Thornberry/Oh, I've got rollers on mine.
Atkins/That's just it, and this guy still has to pick it up.
Thornberry/I know. But I don't know --
Lehman/ I think most people know when they've got an extremely heavy container. In
fact, didn't the article say some folks even leave notes on them.
Kubby/If it's heavier than a thing of dog food, you know, it's 40 or 50 pounds.
Thomberry/Oh, I know what 50 pounds is.
Atkins/I don't know how you do that.
Thomberry/My wife doesn't know what 50 pounds is.
Norton/Kinesthetically.
Thornberry/It kind of depends whether you got, when the electricity went out, you had
all this rotting food from your refrigerator and you put it in there, that's going to
be pretty heavy.
Kubby/You put it in your compost. You didn't put it in your compost pile?
Thornberry/I have deer, I didn't want to --
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Kubby/How you'll know is you put it out, use your best judgment, and if it's over 50,
they'll leave a note because they won't take it.
Thomberry/Oh, they do leave a note, yeah.
Atkins/But I just want to point out --
Norton/ It does bring up the point, I do hope we hear from the deer people pretty soon,
because January will slip up on us very rapidly.
Atkins/Oh, I understand there's another meeting. I know the USDA officials are in town
talking to Lisa and some of the staff. And I know the committee was to meet
again. I'll get you a memo.
Norton/Update us as fast as possible.
Atkins/Anyhow, thanks, Gazette, good story. That's all I have.
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