HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-10-05 TranscriptionOctober 5, 1998 Council Work Session page 1
Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thornberry, Vanderhoe~
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Davidson, Craig, Schoon, Ripley.
Tapes: 98-109; all; 98-110, all.
Review Zoning Matters 98-109 S1
a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for October 20 on an ordinance
vacating the Madison Street right-of-way south of Prentiss Street, the Des Moines
Street right-of-way west of Capitol Street and the 20-foot wide alley south of
Prentiss Street and west of Capitol Street. (VAC98-0005)
Franklin/This first item is to consider a motion setting a p.h. for October 20 .... This is
for the University of Iowa and it is part of the relocation of the functions that are
now in Eastlawn. They will vacate the alleys and build a new building down
there. That will be on for p.h. next time.
Norton/Did somebody on P/Z object to that? ....
Franklin/There was a 5-1 vote. Dean voted against it.
Norton/I just wondered if there was a particular problem down there.
Kubby/Why are we doing this now since we are not through with other negotiations?
Franklin/They requested it ....
Kubby/
Franklin/This is just the vacation, it is not the deposition at this time.
Kubby/Who else would we dispose it to?
Franklin/We vacate it and then it is city property... then we have to go through a
disposition process ....
Kubby/I might move to defer if we end up voting to vacate before we have other
discussions.
b. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately
22 acres from Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) to Low Density
Single-Family Residential (RS-5) for property located in the Summit Street Historic
District. (REZ98-0010). (First consideration)
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Franklin/First consider of the rezoning on Summit Street.
Thornberry/ ....Is this the one whereby if it makes the duplexes nonconforming?
Franklin/Duplexes will become nonconforming.
Thomberry/Say they want to make an addition onto a duplex-
Lehman/We are going to talk about that later this evening ....
Thornberry/
Lehman/...We will talk about that before tomorrow night's meeting.
Kubby/Although... referring only to contributing structures, will that be part of our
discussion later?
Franklin/Yes it will be ..... You are not going to talk about the nonconforming uses until
much later in the agenda. There then is some question... whether you would want
to vote on the rezoning unless you resolve this nonconforming use question. Is
that correct?
Thornberry/Dee, did you talk to Karin about that?
Vanderhoef/I talked with Karin this morning about this .... I think I would like to defer
this item until we get some more information about historic districts and about
setting precedent and .... Nonconforming uses of a contributing structure.
Kubby/If we make a decision about those nonconforming contributing structures, it
would apply to any historic districts ....I am ready to move ahead on the actual
item ....
Vanderhoef/ .... There are some other things that I would like to have discussion about
with Historic Preservation .... I have concerns about setting precedents .... That
other historic districts, there will be downzoning .... I am not ready to move
forward .... Some of our districts .... Mixed... I do not want historic preservation
actions to create such a situation that these homes will not be kept up do to the
people who are living there .... Possibility of Historic preservation looking at
materials that are acceptable other than wood ....Discuss before we get into
zoning.
Lehman/These are two separate issues... zoning and historic preservation ....
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Norton/I talked to a couple of people .... Is downzoning always .... historic preservation
district establishment .... Not necessarily .... That downzoning would accompany
it .... It is a big issue... I think it does imply a precedent here. I don't see why not
pass the first consideration ....
Kubby/I don't understand the precedent issue .... You have to look at what's around
there .... Majority materials on the contributing structures in the district .... Look
at each individual one ....
Thornberry/
Franklin/
Lehman/We are talking zoning issues, not historic preservation issues.
Vanderhoef/But I think they are tied together ....
Norton/Each one would be a particular case.
Franklin/There is no legal precedent that you are establishing by considering this
rezoning. You look at every rezoning on its individual merits. There may be
political ramifications but that is an entirely different issue .... Context of the
property you are considering, its context and its compliance with the
Comprehensive Plan.
Vanderhoef/So that will the procedure be if this downzoned were passed and we had not
taken care of the second issue of the duplex?
Franklin/As you do any downzoning, those properties that become nonconforming can
continue until they are abandoned or destroyed by 100% of their assessed value.
They cannot be expanded, enlarged, unless you change the rules.
Vanderhoef/That is my question. How do we change the rules after we have already
done the downzoning?
Kubby/
Franklin/It goes to the P/Z Commission... consideration of an amendment .... Very
specific ....
Thomberry/...Could they go through special exception?
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Franklin/No .... variance... not practical to think that it would be approved.
Vanderhoef/
Norton/...In this case, I want to see it downzoned.
Thornberry/But you could put an addition onto your house without doing anything.
Norton/...everyone has to be looked at if it is an exterior change, right?
Thornberry/Could he do that? .... He couldn't do that ....
Norton/A single has to go through the historic preservation people.
Lehman/All right.
Kubby/
Thomberry/We are making it nonconforming if we pass this.
Lehman/ .... that is another issue ....
Vanderhoef/
Franklin/
c. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 9.27
acres from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to Sensitive Areas
Overlay/Medium Density Residential (OSA-8) to allow a 72-unit residential
development on property located on the south side of Taft Speedway west of
Dubuque Street. (REZ98-0009) (First consideration)
Franklin/The next item is the first consideration of the rezoning of the property on Taft
Speedway. I have not heard from the developers on this one today.
Kubby/Can we just defer this indefinitely?
Franklin/I would suggest that ....I don't have anything ....It may be withdrawn
tomorrow.
d. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of an approximate 4,000
square foot property located at 114 Wright Street from Community Commercial
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(CC-2) to Planned High Density Multiple-Family Residential (PRM). (Second
consideration)
Franklin/Next item is second consideration of the rezoning on Wright Street.
e. Consider an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation on a 10-acre
tract located on the south side of Melrose Avenue and west of West High School
from Low Density Single-Family (RS-5) to Planned Development Housing (OPDH-
8) to permit an 80 dwelling unit retirement community. (REZ98-0002) (Pass and
adopt)
Franklin/Pass and adopt for the Melrose Retirement project ..... that we went through the
rezoning and two readings pending the resolution of the sewer issues and those
have been resolved. So you are asked to vote on pass and adopt tomorrow night.
Norton/What took so long since February? ....
Franklin/It was negotiating between the developer and the University of Iowa ....
f. Consider a resolution approving a final plat of Windsor Ridge - Part 9, a 20.33
acre, 46 lot residential subdivision located in the Low Density Single-Family
Residential (RS-5) zone for property located north of Arlington Drive and
Barrington Road. (SUB98-0023)
Franklin/To consider a resolution approving the final plat of Windsor Ridge, Part 9, 46
lot residential subdivision .... Will connect Arlington and Barrington Roads...
complete loop in Windsor Ridge .... This is ready to go except for getting legal
papers back from the developers attorney .... There aren't any particular issues ....
Vanderhoef/Is there a sidewalk access... to the east as well as the west? ....I am asking if
there is a sidewalk on top of that sewer easement? ....
Norton/
Franklin/ .... There isn't .... There are sidewalks, of course, all around on the streets ....
And there is a sidewalk that comes out here ....
Vanderhoef/
Franklin/(Refers to map) There may be one down here .....
Vanderhoef/Is this outlot area, it is not storm water retention? ....
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Franklin/There is storm sewer and drainage easement here (refers to map) ....
Vanderhoef/So this is dry open space?
Franklin/Right.
Thornberry/
Vanderhoef/
Franklin/
Champion/ .... When that is dedicated for public use, who maintains that?
Franklin/We do. It is an issue to consider as we look more and more at neighborhood
open spaces ....
Kubby/We have to make sure we have equipment and people power ....
Champion/How wide is that little narrow area?
Franklin/That is 50 feet here (refers to map) ....So that is as wide as a local street r.o.w.
Champion/So what use is that narrow space to the public? ....
Kubby/
Franklin/We have a provision in the Neighborhood Open Space Ordinance that you have
to have an opening at least that wide so it doesn't appear as it is somebody's
backyard .... (refers to map).
Champion/How much consideration do we give to smaller .... How are they going to be
maintained?
Franklin/I can't answer that...
Norton/Constant problem .... Rock and hard place. What is the access to Taft
Speedway? .....
Franklin/In your packet... overall of the whole project. There is an access point... off of
Barrington to Taft .... To get an idea of the whole thing... blue arrow down
there .... There is another one just noah of this subdivision that we are dealing
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with now ..... Then Court Street .... One of the problems... topography .... Such
that it is difficult to get a road out to Taft without considerable grading ....
Norton/Where is the neighborhood commercial going to be?
Franklin/It is in that kind of L-shaped .....(refers to map) ....Taft and Court.
g. Consider a motion to forward a letter to the Johnson County Board of
Supervisors recommending that a request submitted by Gerald Milder to fezone
20.4 acres of land from Rural (A1) to Suburban Residential (RS-10) for property
located at 4820 American Legion Road be denied. (CZ9831)
Franklin/G. and H., I have a letter from the attorney .... Requested that this be deferred to
October 20 because they cannot attend either tonight or tomorrow night.
Kubby/I am a little confused about this ....Two homes that are near each other and are
already built ....
Norton/It is confusing.
Kubby/I think we need to go by our agreement .... Nothing is changing except some
ownership issues.
Franklin/There are some circumstances... may be peculiar... larger issue is whether we
want to allow clustered development in Area B in the Fringe Area Agreement.
Kubby/I don't want to.
Norton/And it is not provided for fight now.
Franklin/
Norton/
Kubby/Trade offs in protecting Ag land... downside... more building in hilly
environmentally sensitive areas and we agreed to that.
Franklin/In this particular circumstances .... The way in which the housing was built ....
It was built without a permit .... The county took a pretty strong position on it and
we didn't disagree with the position that they took.
Norton/
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Franklin/...defined what we can serve with gravity sanitary sewer.
Thornberry/I went back and forth ....
Norton/
Kubby/...circumstances were not created by some loop or changes in policy on our part
but by people not following rules ....
Thornberry/
Norton/
Thornberry/If you own it, you should be able to plant beans if you want ....
Norton/This is Iowa, Dean.
Kubby/...they just say you can't build ....
Thornberry/Because it is good for growing corn and I just don't agree with that argument
but I agree with the rest of it ....
Champion/
Thornberry/
h. Consider a motion to include in the letter to the Johnson County Board of
Supervisors concerning the Milder rezoning, request that the City and County
jointly consider resolutions to this type of rezoning situation that are not contrary to
the Fringe Area Agreement.
(See previous item)
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Review Agenda Items 98-109 S1
1. (AGENDA ITEM #9 - CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14,
ENTITLED "UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE," CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED "CITY
UTILITIES," ARTICLE H ENTITLED "SOLID WASTE," SUBSECTION 2,
ENTITLED "DEFINITIONS" OF THE CITY CODE TO AMEND SEVERAL
DEFINITIONS. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)).
Kubby/I have a question about solid waste definition .... Why are we doing the asbestos?
Is it so that we can deal with it differently? Do we need more leverage or
something?
Atkins/I think so. How about I find out for you tomorrow night.
Kubby/Seems like the recycling definition is just to clean it up.
Atkins/It was clean up language.
Kubby/Can we find out about special waste thing?
Norton/And what is the difference between bulky waste and bulky solid waste?
(All talking).
Norton/
Atkins/I would suspect bulky waste is something like yard clippings...
(All talking).
Kubby/It should be clear ....
2. (AGENDA ITEM #7 - WATER MAIN PHASE 4)
Norton/I was going to ask, is this a new thing in the water? The 24 inch main from
Emerald to the Peninsula7 ....
Arkins/It was always in the works ....
Vanderhoef/...how close that Peninsula at that point ....
Norton/
3. (AGENDA ITEM #13 - 1996 MASTER PLAN FOR THE IOWA CITY MUNICIPAL
AIRPORT)
Thornberry/Is there any problem at all with the Master Plan for the Airport?
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Norton/Why are we doing that again?
Lehman/We have never done it.
Atkins/
Norton/
Thornberry/We voted on it before ....
Lehman/Informally.
Norton/Okay.
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Sales Tax 98-109 S1
Lehman/Sales tax, Steve.
Atkins/Well, you asked that this item be put back on the agenda .... I have some extra
copies of the ballot proposition. I think one of the first things I would like to have
Marian do is give you a schedule update so that you can understand the decision
making ....
Karr/(Distributes her October 5 memo re: Local Option Sales Tax Election.) What I did
was simply do a rough time line .... To show you how it can work... I took a date
that is still a possibility...March 23 and backed it up. Totally your call. What this
is is based on State Code of 120 days notice of an election. It also allows for
publication .... No magic in the date ....
Atkins/So in reading this... we have two more meetings ....
Kubby/When does spring break start?
Karr/..this would be the week after spring break .... March 23.
Kubby/I think we should try to do it before spring break.
Thornberry/...do it after the snow birds come home.
Karr/It is not impossible to do it before spring break...
Thornberry/...give municipal entities time to do their thing too.
Karr/But there is still time that is built into the 67 days.
Kubby/When do snow birds get back.
Thomberry/About spring break ....
Lehman/We met today .... Kelly Hayworth and talked about some of the things we talked
about two weeks ago .... Projects that we would consider mutually beneficial ....
For Iowa City and Coralville .... I am not so sure that we are going to include...
They are meeting with the county folks tomorrow .... Sales tax .... What the
possibilities that their sales tax would be used for. I know it is early on the
agenda... I do believe based on what occurs tomorrow .... Between Coralville and
the Supervisors and maybe their reaction .... This may not be quite as timely as we
think .... March 23 may be rushing it .... Got a complete understanding .... On
what we would like to see accomplished with it.
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Kubby/I think we still have decisions to make around this table .... Then our citizens
know what we are going to put on the ballot and we can deal with the
timeframe...
Lehman/
Kubby/I thought we had already kind of made decisions about how- That we didn't want
to have on our ballot... saying that we were going to do joint projects ....
Lehman/...I think it would be politically much more palatable to discuss our intentions
and how they mesh with other folks .... It is going to take the mutual support of all
the elected bodies out in the county ....
Kubby/We have already made some commitments .... So are you saying you don't want
to talk about this?
Lehman/No .... I would hate to say we have reached closure on sales tax without having
some more input from other folks .... I think we have said... I don't think we
should tie our proceeds to the sales tax to projects .... Cooperating on ....
Kubby/...we have had this .... Frustrating ....They have known for two years that we
want to do a sales tax ....
Norton/We still have a problem .... In terms of getting support for this .... Exactly how
you handle the property tax relief.... Are we firm on that?
Thornberry/You don't handle the property tax relief....
Norton/
Thornberry/
Kubby/...what will the real affects be and how do we want to word it ....
Thornberry/I don't want to mislead the public .... That property tax relief thing does
mislead the public.
Norton/First of all I resent the implication I am interested in misleading anybody.
Thornberry/I am implying that that sentence does on the revised wording ....
Norton/It depends on how you look at it .... You got to show zero or something, right?
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Champion/
Thomberry/One says ...zero property tax relief and the other one says 15%.
Atkins/ ....one says ballot proposition alternative ....
(All talking).
Thornberry/...If somebody looks at this... property tax relief.... Property tax is not
going down.
Norton/
Kubby/
Norton/Water isn't going down 25%.
O 'Donnell/
Thomberry/I would rather have 25% for water rate stabilization.
Norton/That is all fight.
Lehman/Can we say the same thing for taxes?
Thornberry/As long as you don't raise the taxes for any reason.
Arkins/You must have that 'relief' word in there ....
(All talking).
Kubby/So if we change the water one to 25% of the sales tax for direct water rate
stabilization ....
Champion/...It is possible that it is going to reduce the water ....
Thornberry/...It is not going to lower your water rate.
Champion/You are wrong, Dean, it could.
Arkins/ .... You have 25% for direct water rate relief.... Policy position .... Keep in mind
that the 25% under this year's dollars creates $1.250 million. Next year it should
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go up .... Go directly .... If it grows with the rate of inflation... we should be able
to freeze water rates for a period of eight years .... Are there other ways that you
can change water rates? Absolutely .... Options you have always had available.
Norton/I want to bring up another one .... Police officers... We are not talking 5%
additional funding for human service agencies, are we?
Atkins/That was your policy position .... Alternative ....2.5% for additional ....Your call.
Norton/...If you go to the original proposition ....Wasn't clear whether you were adding
or substituting ....
Thomberry/I think we should spell it out ..... All I heard was the word freeze .... Freezing
the water rates ..... With this, they wouldn't go up... It would freeze the water
rates .... It is stabilization of your current rate. Then when you get to property tax
relief, there is no 15% property tax relief until we make a decision... to cut costs
somewhere else .....
Kubby/This ballot proposition... does not say there would be 15% property tax relief. It
says that 15% of the money would go to relief property taxes.
Thornberry/That is splitting hairs ....
Norton/The percentages are all distribution of the receipts.
(All talking).
Norton/
Thornberry/
Norton/If we say it in here that 15% goes for property taxes, we better put 15% ....
Thornberry/Then I had better see a 15% drop in my property tax.
Lehman/Distinguish between relief and reduction.
Thornberry/
Kubby/
Atkins/It is 15% of the money, not your property tax.
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Thornberry/...doesn't make any difference what percentage it is.
Kubby/ ....I think it is not productive to keep saying that it is 15% of property tax
relief....
Norton/
Kubby/It says 15% for, it does not say 15% of-
Thornberry/It says 15% for property tax relief. ....
Lehman/... I think it will get misinterpreted ....
Thornberry/
Champion/15% of the sales tax revenue .... Will be used to ftmd things that we would
ordinarily tap into your property tax.
Atkins/That is one way of looking at it. The second way is we could simply take that
money and apply it to the tax rate and reduce it.
Thornberry/
Champion/You have control over all the money anyway.
Thornberry/
Champion/You have control over the property tax ....
Thornberry/I am not increasing the individual's property tax ....
Atkins/There are other levies.
(All talking).
Kubby/...property tax relief.... Actually use that and relief normal expenses ....
Champion/
Lehman/ .... 15% of sales tax revenue is being used to fund activities... which comes
from taxes... If we chose not to spend that money, that would be a property tax
reduction ....
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Thornberry/
Norton/The alternative proposition .... Says you were promising to do some things out of
sales tax ....
Thornberry/The ballot proposition... When we had zero for property tax relief....
Lehman/Zero is not really accurate.
Thornberry/
Lehman/... What are you going to do with the money? .... There is funds that we would
be using sales tax for that we are currently using General Funds for ....Property
tax relief....
Norton/Which one is the most understandable... to the voters? ....
Kubby/We would like the language to be clear. Is there a legal way to keep it concise-
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-109 SIDE 2
Kubby/For example... 5%... human service agencies .... Half the moneys would be new
moneys and half the moneys would relieve property tax... State those intentions.
Atkins/We have to have this approved legally ....
Lehman/Is it possible to use parenthesis on the ballot? ....
Atkins/Municipal finance in Iowa... convoluted. Let me give you an example of
property tax relief. .... public transit system .... If the rate goes down, when the
rate goes down, apply it against the base, you do reduce your taxes. And you must
remain at the $8.10 to enjoy the benefit of all those other levies .....
Kubby/
Thornberry/2.5% additional funding for human services with zero % for property tax
relief.
Kubby/That is what the original ballot language intent is .... That 2.5% would be
additional moneys to go into human services funding .... That is fine with me.
Norton/
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Kubby/I am suggesting .... People are feeling like it is not clear .... Other alternative is to
make sure we have... educational material that explains ....
Norton/I would like to turn this over to an expert .... We have got the categories we
want .... Where is an expert that knows how to present these things? .... To make
an understandable ballot ....
Atkins/...It must pass legal muster.
Norton/Let's turn it over to somebody rather than do it by committee if we have some
categories.
Dilkes/Seems to me...decide whether you want to do some property tax relief.... We are
going to have to talk to our bond counsel .... I would suggest that you decide
whether you want to do some property tax relief.... There are some
possibilities ....
Thornberry/
Norton/You are going to show property tax relief.
Lehman/Steve... Eleanor .... You understand where Dean's concerns are... Do you think
it is possible to word this in such a fashion to make it more clear that property tax
relief is not in fact property tax reduction?
Dilkes/I think there is a way to do that, yes .....I will probably talk to Ken Haynie about
it, our bond counsel ....
Kubby/These alternatives are really different ....
Champion/
Thornberry/...these aren't clear.
Kubby/...we need to decide... other option we want ....
Norton/ ....If you start using the word additional ....Also additional or substituting...
10% says additional in both of them ....
Atkins/Your position was you were splitting it.
Kubby/
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Norton/I would have thought it would have been the same thing for the officers .....
Vanderhoef/
Norton/In that category it promises them 10% additional .... Take the word additional
out. It leaves you more freedom.
Vanderhoef/I like that.
Thomberry/For hiring and equipping police officers.
Lehman/I agree.
Norton/... Just leave it 5% for hiring and equipping police officers .... This is proceeding
to leave out the property tax relief.... We are changing water rate to water rate
stabilization. Is that right?
Thornberry/Yes.
Norton/
Kubby/
O'Donnell/Dean, what would you be satisfied with this reading?
Thomberry/Zero .....
Lehman/We re going to work on that... understandable .... I personally don't mind the
alternative at all.
Thornberry/I want it clear to the general public when they vote... they know what they
are getting or not getting ....
Norton/ .... If you change water rate relief to stabilization, 25%. Then 10% operating
expenses for the library .... 10% to support the operating capitol for public transit
and paratransit. 10% for hiring and equipping police officers. 5%... human
services .... You may later decide whether that is relieving or adding .... Unclear
then but you are leaving that decision to the future ....They may get some indirect
property tax relief....
Thornberry/Or something else ....
Norton/
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Kubby/...growth in this community... costs involved... It is not paying for itself.... So
we are having to figure out another way to pay for it .....
Thornberry/
Lehman/Is there a consensus to leave property tax at zero and try to make the other
wording perfectly flexible?
Kubby/Yes.
Lehman/
Kubby/If we all agree on clarity, then there are differences in content .... If you want
some of the sales tax money to go to transit, you can't be for the alternate.
Norton/...I am working with the original ....
Vanderhoef/On the second proposal... 7.5% for library .... Playing around with this...
5% for operating expenses for library and cultural center... will not cover the cost
for the first few years. To take the other 5% and put it in for property tax relief....
Would not lock it into that category ....As the cultural center becomes self
supporting.
Thornberry/...not a prayer.
(All talking).
Norton/Harder to go with the altemative .... Some way to broaden that category ....
Increased operating expenses for new facilities ....
Vanderhoef/...to expand that ....
Norton/I don't want to start telling them where I am locked in... all up to... future
councils ....
Kubby/...operating expenses for those facilities ....
Vanderhoef/We may not need this as it grows.
Thornberry/You will for related community events.
Vanderhoef/
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Kubby/What is the operating expense of the library per year fight now?
Craig/$3 million a year.
Kubby/ ....even if it is not used ....
Norton/
Lehman/
Norton/...Center for Community Events .... We need a new draft, Alternative #3.
Lehman/I don't see us making a tremendous amount of progress here.
Norton/We are deciding on the original ballot?
(All talking).
Lehman/I think we are at the original, Steve. We are going to have to somehow make
our clarification that is hopefully as succinct as we can ....
Kubby/...makes sure our policy statement is clear ....
Norton/... I think maybe I will go back to the original ....Clarifying the wording ....
Thornberry/
Atkins/
Champion/Are there people who are interested in the alternate besides me?
Kubby/
O'Donnell/I think it mentions property tax... 15% of the proceeds will be used for
property tax relief.
Dilkes/Actually say... 15% of the sales tax revenue for property tax relief. 40% of the
sales tax revenue for-
Norton/You can't win ....
O'Donnell/
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Norton/
Thornberry/
Champion/We are not arguing that the library and cultural center don't need money. The
argument is ....Some of us would like a way to provide 10% or 15% for property
tax relief. ....
Thornberry/It is not going to happen ....We are going to spend that money and it is not
going to be property tax relief.
Norton/There is some merit to that .... In the alternative .... Subsidy we are doing for
transit .... Come out of sales tax ....
Thornberry/...This council and future councils, tell me that you will save 15%. I am
sorry, it ain't going to happen. This is government ....
Kubby/I agree with Dean .... Majority has not said no ....
(All talking).
Lehman/Steve-
Atkins/May I confirm what I understand the ballot proposition? Work from the original
ballot proposition:
0% property tax relief
40% construction of a center for community events
25% diFec4 water rate stabilization
10% operating expenses for the library, center for community events and related
community events.
10% support of the operating and capital expenses for public transit
10% for hiring and equipping police officers and fire fighters
5% funding of Johnson County human services.
Norton/ ....say water rate stabilization.
Atkins/Strike direct.
Champion/What really bothers me... property tax relief is what is going to sell it ....
Kubby/
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O'Donnell/We had a very confusing ballot with First Avenue and I think it was very
deliberate .... I agree .... If we are going to have a chance at this thing, it has got to
mention property tax ....
Thornberry/...It can't be misleading ....
Norton/
Lehman/I think what you said Steve is kind of where we are. Eleanor, we spoke earlier...
possibility of wording property tax relief in a fashion that is not misleading.
Atkins/We will call.
Lehman/If it is possible to phrase property tax relief in a way that is clear, that it may not
be objectionable to this council.
Kubby/
Norton/It leaves a category off.
Kubby/ .... do have to resolve it.
(All talking).
Thornberry/I don't want to do anything as a governmental body that we cannot afford.
Now without the passing of this one cent city sales tax, I don't want to promise
anything .... We can do some of it ....
(All talking).
Atkins/Marian has a real quick schedule.
Karr/ .... On your October 20th meeting, you would set public discussion on the ballot
language for November 3 ..... this would allow public input on the language. It
would be for November 3 .... Allow you... to vote as early as November 17th ....
You have got a joint meeting coming up with the school, the county, North
Liberty, etc., at the end of October... allow you to have ballot language and a
public discussion set for that meeting to promote discussion there ....
Atkins/When is the joint meeting?
Karr/27th.
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Atkins/That capital project night.
Karr/28th, I am sorry, it is the 28th .....
Norton/
Karr/...public discussion... You would have to have something for them to discuss ....
You would still be free then to amend it prior to your action.
Lehman/ .... We don't seem to be changing categories ..... Is that basically accurate?
Norton/That is fine.
(All talking).
Letm~an/Thank you. So we do agree on the break down. We don't necessarily agree on
the language .... I would like to let this one kind of simmer a little bit .... Why
don't we wait on final language until we hear the rest-
(All talking).
Lehman/Sounds to me that there are more folks .... Prefer the original proposition ....
There may be a method by which we can explain what we are going to do ....
Leave it there until our next meeting?
Norton/We can't simmer anywhere else.
Lehman/
Norton/...policy statement needs to be reviewed.
Lehman/Let's go to South Gilbert Street.
(All talking).
Karr/Before you take a break- So did you ignore the proposal for the 20th or do you want
us to set public discussion on the 20th?
Thornberry/I think we ought to have the public discussion.
Karr/We can put it on and you can decide at that time.
Champion/Right.
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Karr/Okay.
Kubby/Thank you.
[Council Break]
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South Gilbert Street Corridor 98-109 S2
Davidson/A month ago we talked about South Gilbert Street ..... working on... Stanley
Consultants have been assisting us .... Thorough job of summarizing the
alternatives and putting it into a form that can assist your decision making... John
Sales from Stanley is here tonight .... At our last meeting... decided... two of the
alternatives... interested in ....
Four things specifically that you asked for this meeting and discussion: detailed
information on the impact to individual parcels of property. There is a two page
table summarized .... 59 parcels of property... summarizing the impact of
property and buildings... parking spaces lost and trees lost. Unfortunately there is
not an alternative that we know of that doesn't affect someone ....
You also asked for some assurance that the alternatives under consideration
actually fix the problems that we are trying to fix... safety concerns... reduce
accident history.., word create the ability for the corridor to handle additional
traffic .... We do feel the three alternatives that you focused on would reduce the
accident rate ....
Thornberry/Where are these accidents occurring?
Davidson/Most... at the approaches to the two main intersections ..... Kirkwood or
Highway 6 ....
Thornberry/I thought that most of the accidents have been curtailed by the light
change ....
Davidson/We have no idea, Dean, if that light change has had any affect in the accident
rate .... Seems to be flowing traffic much smoother ....
Thornberry/
Norton/There must be facts about how many accidents there have been since that light
was changed.
Davidson/...we have not looked since that change ....
Norton/Somebody should get that number.
Davidson/I would be very very surprised if that has resulted in a significant improvement
in safety in this corridor ....
Thornberry/
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Norton/
Thornberry/On the intersection of Gilbert and Highway 6...
Davidson/... most of the accidents... We do believe that the alternatives... will result in
a safer corridor.
Thornberry/Would the redoing of the intersection... Gilbert and Highway 6 ....
Davidson/If you did nothing more than reconstruct .... That would be a big improvement
in safety.
Thornberry/
Lehman/By doing that intersection, you are going to widen Gilbert Street how far?
Davidson/Back approximately to Third Avenue.
Norton/That is not bad.
Lehman/
Davidson/Your taper would go back to between First and Second ....
Lehman/That is a significant portion ....
Norton/More modest.
Kubby/
Davidson/(Refers to map) ..... You are essentially widening Gilbert Street by doing that
approach of the Highway 6 intersection .... We looked at .... Spot intersection
improvements .... Virtually the same as doing the whole corridor.
O'Donnell/We accomplished a dual turn lane on Riverside Drive without widening or
doing any of this.
Davidson/We had more pavement to work with there.
Lehman/
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Davidson/And the opposite approach of that intersection is a very very low volume
movement .....
Norton/...just taper wide enough to get left turn lanes for the south bound Gilbert ....
Davidson/
Kubby/When we look at this area long term .... We should do... longest term
improvements .... We know that there is growth to the south .... Destination is the
core of the city ....I think we have an obligation to do something here ....
Davidson/...remember... reconstructing pavement, we are dealing with a 25 to 30 year
improvement .... So we have used...forecast the traffic volume to go out that far
to make sure that in ten years we don't end up with something that is not
adequate ....
Norton/Solution... not going to go to anyone of these completely .... Why can't you do
something that is an approach to those .... ?
Davidson/ .... We also took a look at medians. We feel very very strongly that at the
Highway 6 intersection with Gilbert Street, that the dual left turn lanes are
needed .... Serious safety problem without medians .... We feel that there are ways
to reconfigure access .... Two way access... into all of the properties ....
Significant safety factor that you need to be aware of. The question about the
necessity to cul de sac Highland Avenue, we believe there is a way... Alternative
4 that you would not need to cul de sac ....
You need to focus on... What do you want to do and when do you want to do
it? .... I will tell you, since we have been studying this issue, there are people,
property owners in the corridor that are very very interested in knowing what
eventually would intend to do .... There are going to be things happening in this
corridor .... Out years... It would still be helpful to know what you intend to do ....
City can work with the property owners to acquire property .... Everybody down
there in the corridor knows what the city intends to do... helpful for everyone to
know what you intend to do.
Lehman/... I believe that we need to recognize... problem on Gilbert Street .... Problem
is going to get worse .... I believe we need to bite the bullet and say this is a
situation that, long term, we can't live with .... Preferred alternative... are willing
to put it in our CIP ....I do think, in fairness to staff... folks who live down there
and work down there .... I think we have got to do that ....Timing... determined
by how much worse this situation gets and how quickly .... I think we have to tell
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people... It is not going to go away .... If we select a plan... always time for a
better plan or an improvement to that plan ....
Vanderhoef/I have two things I would like clarified .... 2001 would be the earliest that
we could do this if we gave you a go fight now?
Davidson/Yeah .... Probably... construction season 2000 .... We would need next year to
design something .... 2001 may be a little more realistic.
Vanderhoef/On page 2 of the memo you say 1997 traffic volume was 16,600 vehicles
per day ....Traffic forecast shows 21,400 new vehicle trips. So we are adding 21
to the 167
Davidson/Right expect don't add all 21,000 just to Gilbert Street ....
Vanderhoef/ .... options and their maximum capacity .... Not hardly taking care of the
new traffic ... forecast ....
Davidson/... getting into some relatively significant improvement by doing any of the
three alternatives that you are looking at... wise investment of the city's funds.
Champion/... capacity?
Davidson/Depend on how fast things take off in the south area ..... It is set up down there
now for development to occur.
Vanderhoef/And 400 new traffic trips per day is not very much in the scheme of
things ....
Davidson/Every residential building permit... dwelling unit, that is 7 or 8 trips a day.
Kubby/It makes sense to me to make a decision about what option we want tonight and
then at our October 28 meeting, that is when we haggle about the timing ....
Vanderhoef/
Norton/... something has got to be done in the short term that is compatible with
whatever alternative we choose ....
Vanderhoef/...CIP... If we choose one plan, we might be able to stage it .... I am not
willing to put in the two lane turn and then have to tear that pavement up... at a
later time.
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(All talking).
Kubby/Is it the big concern about the big disruptions? .... I would rather have the pain of
doing all at once ....
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-110 SIDE 1
Vanderhoef/In the CIP sooner rather than later.
O'Donnell/...traffic... could this be influenced by the completion of First Avenue of
Captain Irish Parkway?
Davidson/ .... there is a big picture here of artefial street connections .... Gilbert Street is
the only east side artefial street that goes from the south city limits to north Iowa
City... It will be impacted... It is also a fai~y localized thing ....Gilbert Street is a
main route.
O'Donnell/All of our development is southeast ....
Vanderhoef/It isn't all southeast ....
Kubby/
Norton/I just don't want to wait until 2005.
O 'Donnell/
Lehman/...Do we agree that first of all that we have a problem and second, can we tell
Jeff that there is an alternative that we prefer?
Thornberry/Jeff, can you put that picture back? .... (Refers to map) .... Making a median
from this point fight here... having a fight turn only on Highland, put the median
from there down .... It is two lane all the way up. All you need is a fight turn lane
over here .....
Davidson/Sure it would help .... Dual lane turn back to (refers to map) .... This median...
The dual left turn lane would need to be terminated at the end of your median ....
You can indicate to us which of the alternatives you see as the long term solution,
we can try to design that improvement ....
Kubby/
Thornberry/I don't think the whole thing needs to be done right now ....
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Kubby/We do know that the south central area of town is growing .... We are facilitating
growth in that area .... Why not be a little proactive? .... To actually do it and not
wait until it is so hondfic and so much traffic .... That it causes even more major
problems ....
Thornberry/That would give the businesses along Gilbert Street... to plan .... Still leave
their businesses with their business plan time to assimilate their business plan into
the changes.
Lehman/...talk about it in the CIP .... First of all do we all agree that we have a problem
there?... We have got a problem that we are going to have to address sooner or
later .... Then are we willing to select an alternative? ..... I do think we need to say
yes, there is a problem and yes, this is the altemative and we will discuss it when
we do the CIP .....
Davidson/ .... definition of unmanageable .... Seven different definitions .... It really is a
political decision .... You don't want to get to the point... where you are in the top
ten in the state for accident locations .... Make better land use decisions ....
Lehman/
Thornberry/I think there could be another alternative or two that haven't been
explored .... Do you think there could be another noah south arterial other than
Gilbert Street created?
Davidson/Looked at... extending Dodge Street further south or Governor Street further
south .... To provide additional through street capacity from south to noah ....
O'Donnell/I am not in favor of any plan that has a median in the center of the road ..... I
still do not know why the median crosses the highway.
Davidson/The median is for the dual left tum lane... We cannot recommend installing
that dual left turn lane without the median because of safety concerns ....
Norton/... I don't want us to extend Dodge Street through and Governor Street would
need a new bridge... give me a break ....
Davidson/
Kubby/This is really difficult .... Important ....
Thomberry/
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Vanderhoef/This is an arterial .... this is an economic development kind of proposal ....
This is just an arterial .... We have to move the traffic somehow ....
Lehman/
Vanderhoef/#4, the dual turn... I think this is the one that will enhance our city the very
most .... It is opening up an area along the railroad tracks .... Increase out traffic
flow there ....
Kubby/I would be against Alternative #4 because-
Vanderhoef/Cost is a problem.
Kubby/ .... longest term thing that we can handle doing .... Doing away with our one way
couplets... frequent conversation over the years... makes our city less
accessible... One way creates a less accessible atmosphere .... Spontaneous
stopping ....The one ways to me ....Number of trees that would be taken out... is
not worth ....Street capacity ....Causes more confusion.
Vanderhoef/It does have the added carrying capacity ....
Norton/
Vanderhoef/The capacity that they are predicting is not l;oing to be handled by just
widening and putting in one new lane on Gilbert ;Street ....
O'Donnell/You don't know what the effect of is if we do get First Avenue through .... Of
Captain Irish Parkway .... We have got two chances there .... I don't agree with
the two way ....
Lehman/ .... I do not favor two one ways .... Cost .... Alternative to take property off of
both sides of Gilbert Street... seems to be an equitable way of doing streets ....
Better advised ..... I would really think that if we took off both sides and had a
negative impact... we would be smarter to look at one side and only .... Retain
one side ....
Davidson/There are some smaller less economic viable parcels on the east side ....
Thought was to give you an alternative that left one street exactly the way it is ....
If you were going to decide... more sense to disrnpt the east side of the street than
the west side ....
Vanderhoef/Do you have any feel for .... How many businesses would lose viability? ....
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Davidson/Any business owner would tell you that the loss of one parking space would
make it less viable... We do require a smaller amount of property... Alternative
#3 .... It does affect a few more parking spaces... half as many trees ....
Thornberry/Could you put ...#3 up there?
Norton/
Davidson/South of the intersection is the same for all of the alternatives .....
Kubby/Executive summary... #3 .... Added traffic capacity .....level of service.
Davidson/There is nothing for traffic flow like a one way pair .... Can move traffic ....
Kubby/
Lehman/...What happens at the noah end of the two one ways? ....
Davidson/There is some dispersion of traffic when you get to the major artefials .... I
think also... past Burlington Street... central business district .... In a central
business type setting, we do not expect to have levels of traffic service that we do
in the rest of the community ..... way slowed down .... Actually got a project that
we are proposing in the CIP for the intersection of Bowcry and Prentiss and
Gilbert for your consideration .....We think you are in reasonably good shape
north of the railroad.
Lehman/Problem just south of the railroad ..... converting on the four lanes.
Davidson/The conversion, we think we have got a design that works pretty well at the
noah end of that ....
Thornberry/On Gilbert Street, Kirkwood Avenue down to Highway 6, are there
medians? What is that white line .... (refers to map).
Davidson/That is your turn lane, center turn lane... five lanes ....
Thornberry/
Davidson/(Refers to map)... staaing your taper.
Thornberry/I don't think you need a median that far up, I really don't.
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Champion/
Norton/Thinking Alternative #3, some consensus .... Seems to me that is where we are
trying to get ....I would certainly like to see something done to help that Gilbert
Court area ....You got a whole problem .... Something to stimulate the evolution
of that whole area would be virtuous ....
Vanderhoef/...I would like to do both Gilbert Court and Maiden Lane... whole area
needs attention .... I see the dual lane as being the long term thing .... Could have
a really beautiful area ....
Norton/... extending Second Avenue across the railroad tracks .... Not locked in there ....
Vanderhoef/...unless you have a total median...now going to have to come out into that
suicide lane in the middle or try to shoot three lanes .... I don't call that safe.
Norton/
Kubby/
Vanderhoef/#4... dollar for dollar ....Make this city safe... cheapest alternative ....
Thornberry/I cannot see Gilbert Street being another one way .... Back and forth...
Lehman/...kind of decided that #4 is not viable .... Do we agree the option to take
property offof the east side of the street... best one to do?
Kubby/Let's go through each.. rationality to making a decision.
Lehman/
Kubby/
Davidson/The second page of the table does summarize the least amount of impact .... is
Alternative #3 ....
Lehman/
Kubby/3300 feet from one business makes them reconfigure .... I am not sure what
business is which ....
Davidson/We have not reflected a total taking of property because that is part of the
negotiation with the property owners.
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Dilkes/Judgement calls would have been very difficult to make at this point .... When we
take the square footage we need for the project .... Difficult thing to do at this
point. All that is reflected there is the square footage that is needed for the
project .... Are situations .... Leave an uneconomic, unviable remnant.
Davidson/...that situation we purchase the whole property, we use what we need, then
we sell off the remaining part.
Thornberry/How many businesses are affected on the east side as opposed to the west
side?... more businesses on the east side ....
Davidson/...only one affected by Alternative #3 .....
Kubby/...Alternative #3 you have got three properties .... Amounts .... One of them is
commercial ....
Norton/I don't understand something by that table .... #3... Aldi's... nothing under #1 ....
Davidson/John .... Should the alternatives be reflected the same south of Highway 67 ....
John Sales/ ....Everything south of Highway 6 should be the same.
Norton/Well, they're not ....
Davidson/Difference in alignment .... There is some difference ....
Norton/6500 feet .... Pretty good size numbers...
Davidson/Looks to me that they are all on the east side ....
Vanderhoef/
Davidson/I take back my statement, the overall design is the same but it looks like
shifting it over affects the properties ....
(All talking).
Vanderhoef/
Davidson/If you look at Hills Bank, they aren't affected at all ....
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Kubby/...#3 .... Of the building required... taking of land and building is less for
Alternative #3 .... parking spaces, a few more... half the number of trees.
Norton/
Kubby/For that less impact, do we get a substantial amount of capacity and safety
increase? Are those two close enough? ....
Lehman/
Norton/#3 looks more palatable.
Kubby/Let's take less land, less building and less trees.
Dilkes/I do have to caution you... actual square footage .... A business, a small business
that you take a smaller amount of square footage from may impact that whole
business.
Kubby/I wouldn't mind going through and looking at which business ....
Norton/
Kubby/I want it on the map... hand write what the business is ....
Davidson/Caution you the type of business ....
Dilkes/I am not sure you can make that determination ....
Lehman/At this point, we tell you that Altemative #3 is our preferred alternative ..... fine
tuning .... Talking about this during our CIP discussion.
Davidson/We will probably let everyone know that you have landed on Alternative #3, it
does not appear there is a majority of council that wants to do it immediately ....
Kubby/I am not sure you can say there is not a majority that wants to do it immediately
until we have a meeting on that.
Davidson/
Lehman/I guess, are there folks here who would like to see us start immediately?
Vanderhoef/I may, I want to look at the whole CIP ....
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Norton/Sooner than later ....
Thornberry/Not sooner rather than later ....
(All talking).
Lehman/There is not a majority ....
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Highland Avenue Traffic Calming 98-110 S1
Lehman/Highland Avenue...
Ripley/Last spring we were contacted by folks on Highland Avenue with concerns about
traffic speed and volume .... Came to the conclusion that the problem.. based on
speeding traffic and traffic in general coming off of the arterial street systems...
Kirkwood Avenue... You decided that Kirkwood Avenue was not something you
were looking at changing at this time... work with folks on Highland Avenue
through the traffic calming process.
Using the process that you folks adopted, we went and met with the
neighborhood... they selected an alternative .... Neighborhood survey process ....
We sent out 61 surveys .... 66% of those were returned... good response rate ....
63% were in favor of the proposal .... If approved by you folks tonight, it is very
unlikely that anything would be installed this fall .... We would be looking at
something in the spring .... We would go ahead with the parking change
immediately for the folks on Highland Avenue .... Give them something .... It
would be parking on both sides .... Staff recommends approval of this option.
Thornberry/Parking on both sides of Highland, you don't need any traffic calming ....
Champion/...construction until next spring ....
Ripley/Parking will be so sporadic... wouldn't have a measurable impact ....
Norton/How did you decide on the number of... chicanes and choke-downs?
Ripley/..The chokers are primarily at the intersections .... Chicanes at the mid-blocks...
spaced conservatively .... Consistency ....
Thornberry/Between Carroll and Keokuk, you got two chokers and two chicanes. Why?
Norton/
Thornberry/
Kubby/If they want to go faster they can use Highway 6 ....
Norton/They do roll down that hill pretty fast ....
Kubby/Is there any literature that talks about these traffic calming measures and how
they affect bicycle safety?
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Ripley/Bicycle safety is a concern that a lot of folks have brought forth .... Try to make
sure they can use the travel lanes as well ....They have the same
responsibilities ....
Kubby/Is there any literature out there... experience with the chokers and the chicanes in
terms of... bicycle and car accidents ....
Ripley/I am not aware of anything .... Bicycles ....Speed humps is one they have come
out against ....
Thornberry/ .... in actual practice... someone tiding a bike... I wouldn't want to ride my
bike in the main lane and not let a car pass me ....
Ripley/
Thomberry/...bikes... its dangerous riding a bike ....
Kubby/
Ripley/It is a collector street.
Kubby/What is the traffic volume on Highland now?
Ripley/I believe it was right around 1800 .... 900 block ....2300 range ....
Norton/What is the drainage problem?
Ripley/There is a drainage alley behind them .... One foot wide ....Not too much room
for a bicycle to go through there ....
(All talking).
Thornberry/ ....I just don't think it is necessary.
Vanderhoef/Do we have a recent count of the cars on Kirkwood to compare with the
number of cars on Kirkwood at the time of the rebuild?
Ripley/...no.
Vanderhoef/That is a number I would like .... Highland .... I am still not in favor of
traffic calming on this collector street... until... good review of Kirkwood which
is an arterial street .... You can do traffic calming .... Kirkwood is our east-west
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arterial in the south part of town. It is not carrying the capacity that it ought to be
carrying .... It is not moving at the rate it should ....
Thornberry/People that use Highland are bypassing Kirkwood... because Kirkwood is
stop and go ....
Ripley/Jeff just informed me that the volume... did go down after the reconstruction.
Congestion has increased due to the stop sign .... Volume and speed issue with
traffic signals, you can control speed with traffic signals. But as far as calming,
you are not going to reduce volume with them ....
Vanderhoef/ ....breaks for side streets ....
CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-110 SIDE 2
Vanderhoef/They takes turns at the stop signs and it is just constant ....It is an arterial ....
Norton/How many signals would we need there?
O'Donnell/A light is going to move more cars more efficiently than a stop sign.
Ripley/They will move them more efficiently .... If more cars come onto the system.
Kubby/ ....do we want to do anything different on Kirkwood and a majority said no.
Norton/Because we don't want to speed up traffic on Kirkwood.
Kubby/...the majority said no .... consequence is people use Highland .... That is why we
said we would do the survey ....
Lehman/I think we did say... stop signs... we have moved those cars onto Highland ....
Comment... about a stoplight on Kirkwood. We didn't pursue that... I do believe
some place down the trail there are going to be stop lights on Kirkwood because I
think that is the only way you are going to move traffic safely ....Things you have
proposed could not be done until spring?
Ripley/...there is a chance that it could be done this fall but it is very slight.
Lehman/In the meantime we could allow parking on both sides .... We have .... Stop
signs... Could there be a combination of parking on both sides and the
installation... stop signs... make this street more difficult to negotiate.
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Ripley/Our preference is to not do that... stop signs... there is an expectation that they
will be there .... They are not effective in controlling speeds.
Kubby/Last three times... traffic calming... we have second guessed that and have
wanted to change it every time .... Maybe the process is not working fight ....
Three neighborhoods have gone through and each time the council has second
guessed the process.
Vanderhoef/We are spending money... traffic calming on Highland .... However, when
we have done... upgrade on an arterial street and then not use it is criminal. We
are pushing those people out onto Highland where they don't belong ....
Champion/I don't think people are going to stop using Highland if you put stoplights on
Kirkwood.
Thomberry/If you use the chicanes and increase volume on Kirkwood... they would use
Kirkwood ....
Vanderhoef/So why don't we start with the stoplight and see what happens ....
Thornberry/We should do parking on both sides of Highland... solve the problems on
Kirkwood ....
Vanderhoef/Put stoplights on Kirkwood .... Would you support that?... Okay.
Thornberry/Dodge and Keokuk ....
Kubby/
Vanderhoef/This is something we need to look at on our CIP.
Atkins/I went to the Kirkwood hearings .... Very strong set of recommendations that the
council chose not to take .... We went through an extensive process on that ....
Champion/
Lehman/I don't question that Kirkwood may have to be re-addressed at a later date.
Tonight we are talking about Highland .... survey... would like to have the cars
slowed down.
Thornberry/
Kubby/
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Thornberry/
Norton/How much is it to put these things in?
Ripley/We don't know exactly because we have never done them before... around
$10,000 for the temporary ones ....
Lehman/If they don't work... difficult to get rid of?.
Thornberry/We are talking about moving traffic on streets ....
Lehman/
Kubby/
Thornberry/He said he has never done it. He doesn't know what it is going to cost. He
doesn't know what the ramifications are going to be ....
Ripley/Sign it and we build it and design it to certain standards that are acceptable ....
Making it more dangerous, no, we are trying to prevent that. But we are making it
more difficult to navigate ....
(All talking).
Vanderhoef/ .... snow plus parking on both sides of the street.
Ripley/Snow removal, based on conversations with our superintendent of streets, will be
declined a little bit .... It will make it more difficult.
Vanderhoef/So that is a hidden cost ....
Kubby/
Lehman/If we were tell you tonight that we think you should move forward with this...
we would then start allowing parking on both sides almost immediately?
Ripley/Should you approve this tonight, there is an item on your consent calendar
tomorrow to approve that ....
Lehman/ .... Something that would be undertaken in the spring?
Ripley/That is correct.
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Lehman/How many are interested in moving forward with this? We got a go.
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Nonconforming Use Regulations 98-110 S2
Lehman/Nonconforming use regulations. Who is doing that? Karin-
Franklin/So what would you like to do? This about nonconforming uses and whether you
want to respond to John Shaw's request that nonconforming uses in historic
districts be permitted to increase in size.
Lehman/Are we saying only in historic districts?
Franklin/That is what the request was for in historic districts .... Recommend... that you
very narrowly prescribe it so it is not across the board for all nonconforming uses.
Kubby/ ....why would we allow a nonconforming contributing building to expand when
we wouldn't allow it any place else?
Franklin/In the memo I gave you two arguments .... Why you want to consider it at all
would be... only way that this historic structure .... Originally built as a duplex
can continue to be viable in today's market is through some kind of expansion of
the unit. I don't know ifI buy that argument... case by case situation ....Hard to
evaluate ....
Kubby/How do you write that? .... so it is only economically viable.
Franklin/I am not suggesting that you get down to that narrowness .... If you are going to
do it, that you consider it only for contributing structures so they have to be
historic structures to start with in a historic district ....Example on Summit Street.
John Shaw's house .... That building ....Two units ....Brad Hauser's duplex ....
New building... could not be added onto ....
Norton/This 100% destruction thing ....
Franklin/That is another issue all together.
Lehman/If we did... allowing certain structures...
Franklin/ .... distinction in the Codes between nonconforming structures and
nonconforming uses .... With duplex, it is a nonconforming use with may or may
not be a nonconforming structure.
Norton/
Lehman/ .... if the duplex is in fact 100% destroyed, it better be able to be rebuilt ....
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Norton/
Thornberry/If a structure were destroyed... rebuilt... would it have to be wood?
Franklin/It depends on what historic district it is in and what the predominant material
is ....
Thornberry/
Norton/Whatever it was to start with ....
Thornberry/
Kubby/
Lehman/Are we interested in pursuing this?
Norton/I think so.
Champion/It is a contributing building ....To the historic part of Summit Street ....Other
older buildings on that street ....
Lehman/Talking about adding on.
Champion/
Lehman/Applies to any historic district.
Norton/If a person has got a nonconforming duplex... they can add on, right? ....
Franklin/As the Code is right now, they would not be able to add on unless the zoning
allowed it.
Kubby/ .... why would you allow one neighbor to do it and not the other one within the
historic district? One is contributing and one is not .... Why would you treat
duplexes differently within .... ?
Vanderhoef/Why would you allow a contributing s.f. house to add on and not a
contributing duplex?
(All talking).
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Franklin/There are two key words, one is contributing and the other is nonconforming.
How do you make that distinction between the rights that you give to the duplex
use .... They are both nonconforming uses and other wise... we do not encourage-
we do not allow the expansion ofnonconforming uses. We do not.
Champion/
Franklin/City wide .... Nonconforming use, you cannot add onto that building ....
Norton/ ....can s.f. structures ....Can they make additions?
Vanderhoef/
Franklin/Let's say you have a commercial historic district in which s.f. is not a permitted
use. A s.f. house would be nonconforming .... No, the s.f. house could no add on,
a commercial business could.
Norton/How to find equity here.
Kubby/
Franklin/There is already a provision in the Code that- There is a distinction made for
nonconforming structures in historic districts .... Nonconforming structures may
be rebuilt if they are destroyed by 100% of their assessed value on the same spot
as they were .... To the original exterior design.
Kubby/...trying to preserve the flavor .... So that makes sense.
Norton/
Champion/
Vanderhoef/...when you rezone ....
Lehman/We are not taking anything from a duplex owner .... If it bums to the ground, it
probably can be rebuilt ....
Thornberry/
Vanderhoef/Habitable space .... You couldn't put a four seasons porch on ....
Thornberry/Screened in porch ....
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Franklin/Shaky ground ....
Kubby/If we don't give them direction, it stays as it is and he can't do it.
Lehman/Do we wish to have staff change the regulations so you can add to conforming
uses?
Council/(No).
Lehman/Are there three who would like to change it?
Vanderhoef/I sure would like to look at it.
Lehman/Are there four who would like to look at it? Leave it, all fight.
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Winter Decorative Lights 98-110 S2
Lehman/Winter lights downtown .... DTA would like to do some lighting in the
downtown area. Are we interested?
Norton/
Kubby/
Dilkes/...I don't think we would have a problem if we are not putting them up in a
particular holiday season. If they are decorative lighting for the downtown and the
leaves are off the trees .... Then I don't think it is a problem.
Norton/So you ought not call it holiday lighting then.
(All talking).
Norton/Who pays for them?
Atkins/DTA wants $6500 from us.
Norton/Who pays for them in Coralville and Cedar Rapids?
Atkins/Cedar Rapids, I couldn't tell you. Coralville has businesses sponsor them and
they have volunteers putting them up and the city participates...
Kubby/I wouldn't mind giving them half of the cost of the lights .... Partnership...
Norton/
Lehman/My only concern... I would like to see the downtown lit... proud of... We have
been doing it halfway for a long time ....We are spending a lot of money
downtown ....
Kubby/I am saying the city only pay for half... they can raise money...
Thornberry/The city is putting big bucks downtown... Seems to me the store owners
could participate ....
Lehman/Last year and year before... fair amount of money spent ....
Norton/ ....light outlet in poles ....Splitting ....Split the difference.
Lehman/Three for half. How many wants to fund the $6000?
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Champion/I am willing to do it... park space ....
Lehman/Are there four who wish to fund it?
(All talking).
O'Donnell/It is Iowa City' s downtown .... I think we have four that are in favor of it.
(All talking).
Champion/I view these lights... ped mall .... treat it as a park ....
Lehman/Do we have four for paying for the $6000? We got four ....
(All talking).
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Appointments 98-110 S2
Housing and Community Development Commission:
Bob Elliot (unexpired term)
Dan Coleman
Lucia-Mai Page
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Council Agenda/Time 98-110 S2
1. O'Donnell/I want to bring up one point. The bus stops that we build a shelter at have
become a collector for newspaper and vending machines .... Chained to the poles...
very different... people ....Need to send a message to either pick them up or remove
the boxes ....
Lehman/
Dilkes/I think you have some first amendment issues here .... We can... newspaper
vending machine ordinance for downtown we don't currently enforce. We have
certain interests, esthetics, preventing obstruction of the r.o.w. that we could
regulate to serve those interest. We have to have regulation on the books ....
O'Donnell/Either make them responsible for the garbage on the ground ....
Kubby/Letter to newspapers... litter problem ....
Champion/I am having a hard time that we can't regulate where they are put.
Dilkes/I am not saying we couldn't. We don't currently.
O'Donnell/We can control that?
Dilkes/We can with a very well defined ordinance that we justify ....
2. Norton/In talking with the county about action out there at Herbert Hoover and 1-80
and we sent a note saying we didn't want to them to proceed with a certain
rezoning out there... consider a meeting with the county to talk fairly specifically
about a couple of issues on that side of town ....What do we want to see out
there?
Lehman/Did we not tell P/Z...about entrance overlay zone?
Norton/We have not have a good deep discussion with the county.
Lehman/On issues that are relative to just the city and the county.
Norton/...issues with our Comp Plan ....
Lehman/ .... that we were going to have a committee to look at entrance zones .... We
have talked about it ....
Atkins/I don't think I would fit this one into entrance overlay.
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(All talking).
Norton/Next time we meet with the county we can talk about it .....
3. Lehman/I want to bring up .... I got a phone call from a lady .... She explained to me
how dedicated and hardworking the council was .... disappointed by some of the
exchanges that take place during public meetings on t.v. amongst ourselves .... I
think it is a good point .... Should... show mutual respect for each other ....
Adjoumed: 10:35 PM
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October
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WS100598