The URL can be used to link to this page

Home My WebLink About1998-10-19 TranscriptionOctober 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 1 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session 6:35 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thomberry ,Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Dilkes, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Schoon, Ripley, Long, Neumann, Trueblood, Goodman-Herbst, Craig. Tapes: 98-113, all; 98-114, all. Addition to the Agenda 98-119 S1 Lehman/There will be an addition to the Agenda tomorrow night. It is Item #20 which will... resolution to adopt the PCRB Standard Operating Procedures and Guidelines ..... recommendation .... Karr/Be deferred until November 17. We wanted separate action. Kubby/That is nice so we can read it before we vote on it. Lehman/Item #20 will be a new item. Norton/Okay... Dilkes/I haven't looked at those either .... Review Zoning Matters 98-113 S1 a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for November 3 on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 10 acres from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to Planned Development Housing Overlay (OPDH- 5), to allow 36 dwelling units, for property located at Wellington Drive and Village Road. (REZ98-0012/SUB98-0021) Franklin/We are setting p.h. for November 3 on an ordinance to rezone about 10 acres .... b. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for November 3 on a resolution approving the annexation of a 4.45 acre tract, occupied by the Court Street right-of- way, for property located at the east terminus of Court Street. Franklin/Set a p.h. for November 3 on a resolution to annex... 4 acres. This is Court Street Extended and the r.o.w. for Court Street plus a little bit of property just to the south that will become part of Scott Park. Kubby/So why is some of it going to be zoned RS-5? Franklin/We usually zone streets the same zoning as the abutting properties. The P is the parkland and the RS-5 is the zoning destination that we expect to the north of there .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 2 c. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for November 3 on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of a 4.45 acre tract from Suburban Residential (County RS), to Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) and Public (P) for property located at the east terminus of Court Street. (REZ98-0015). Franklin/Set the p.h. on the rezoning .... d. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for November 3 on a resolution approving the annexation of a 19.81 acre tract located at the southeast corner of Scott Boulevard and American Legion Road. (ANN98-0002). Franklin/Setting a p.h. on a resolution annexing 19.81 acres. This is for the Silvercrest Development at the intersection of Scott Blvd. And American Legion Road. e. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for November 3 on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of 21.53 acres from Low Density Single Family Residential (RS-5), County A1, Rural, and County CH, Highway Commercial, to Planned Development Housing Overlay (OPDH-12), located at the southeast corner of Scott Boulevard and American Legion Road. Franklin/Setting a p.h. on the rezoning .... The reason that the acreages are different is because a portion of this property is currently within the corporate limits. It is a little square that you see on the zoning map and this incorporates property around that and then rezones that. Norton/You are all satisfied with the storm sewer, too? ..... Franklin/Yes, we are satisfied with the stormwater handling. I am not sure that Mr. Prybil is satisfied but we have made the determination that that is an issue between Mr. Prybil and Mr. Wolf.... Should improve the situation there by having some detention of that water which now just flows freely. I am not sure that Eldon buys that. Thornberry/ Franklin/When we talk about this, I will bring in the diagram that shows you where the pipes are and what had transpired here and I think it will become a little bit clearer. Norton/Access is on both Scott and is secondary on American Legion? Franklin/Yes. Norton/Pretty steep .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 3 Franklin/No, they have angled it so that it comes in .... They were able to design it with a retaining wall such that they could have that drive come in ....Scott is going to have more traffic .... f. Public hearing on an ordinance vacating the Madison Street right-of-way south of Prentiss Street, the Des Moines Street right-of-way west of Capitol Street and the 20-foot wide alley south of Prentiss Street and west of Capitol Street. (VAC98-0005) Franklin/A p.h. on an ordinance vacating Madison Street r.o.w ..... Des Moines Street r.o.w .... 20 foot wide alley .... This is for the University of Iowa. They will own of the property around these r.o.w ..... So we have recommended and P/Z Commission .... Recommended by 5-1 vote that these streets and the alley be vacated ..... Norton/No money changes hand? .... Kubby/That will come at the disposition, not the vacation. Franklin/That will come under the disposition ..... In this instance we expect to dispose of it to the University through the normal process of disposition. We have to do that ..... So if you want to negotiate, you negotiate at the disposition stage .... g. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 9.27 acres from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to Sensitive Areas Overlay/Medium Density Residential (OSA-8) to allow a 72-unit residential development on property located on the south side of Taft Speedway west of Dubuque Street. (REZ98-0009) (First consideration) Franklin/Riverview Place... being withdrawn by the developer. Basically, you don't need to do anything with this. Kubby/Do you know what piece of property they did retain? Franklin/I believe the acquisition is complete... a piece that is east of Scott Blvd and noah of Washington Street which will require annexation and rezoning .... Owned by Mr. Glasgow .... Kubby/We are basically kind of creating a senior corridor up in there. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Land available on arterials .... Franklin/We also have two projects on the west side .... (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 4 Lehman/Okay, we have them on the east and the west. Franklin/ h. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 22 acres from Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) to Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) for property located in the Summit Street Historic District. (REZ98-0010). (Second consideration) Franklin/Second consideration for the Summit Street rezoning. Thomberry/What do we do on (item #) g.? Kubby/Nothing. Franklin/A motion to accept withdraw. Karr/It could just be noted. You don't accept a withdraw. It is their withdraw. Just note it for the record. You don't have to do anything. Just read it for the record and we will note that and that will be it. It closes it. Thornberry/Okay. i. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of an approximate 4,000 square foot property located at 114 Wright Street from Community Commercial (CC-2) to Planned High Density Multiple-Family Residential (PRM). (Pass and adopt) Franklin/Pass and adopt on the rezoning on Wright Street. j. Consider a motion to forward a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors recommending that a request submitted by Gerald Milder to rezone 20.4 acres of land from Rural (A1) to Suburban Residential (RS-10) for property located at 4820 American Legion Road be denied. (CZ9831) Franklin/County zoning which has been considered before by the city council and by the P/Z Commission and recommended for denial. There was a request to reconsider this rezoning by the applicants .... P/Z Commission has again recommended denial of this rezoning. Let me just put it up ..... Lehman/In the comment, the Commission suggested that the City and County staff investigate... some way to resolve cases such as this without running counter to the intent of the Fringe Area Agreement. Franklin/I don't know what that means. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 5 Lehman/ .... I know that Jonathan Jordahl is interested in getting together and discussing this... won't hurt to talk about. Franklin/I think aside from this issue, there is also the Eyman rezoning issue, both of which relate to the Fringe Area agreement .... Norton/Two issues .... Getting some kind of cluster feature in Fringe Area B .... Franklin/If you read the Fringe Agreement as there being no allowance of clustering in Fringe Area B .... general development standards .... That are intended to apply broadly over the agreement. I went back .... two files on our last Fringe Agreement negotiations which started in '94 and ended in '96 .... And the debate that we had around Fringe Area B was not about clustering... it was about the density in which the county wanted to have development at RS-3 and we wanted to have much less intense development in that particular area and the compromise was RS-10 .... The other issue has to do with the whole commercial and industrial question which has come up with the Eyman rezoning ..... Kubby/Whole basis of that agreement is that we have these distinct areas .... Each dealt with in a different way .... We don't' want certain things in B .... protect that .... Franklin/There was a very clear tradeoff. .... occurred through all of those discussions. Vanderhoef/Seems as though... no permitting for the building of the house in '94 ..... Seems to me that it is the county's concem and their problem because they have added these other standards for things .... Franklin/We did have a Fringe Agreement prior to '94 .... Since '83 and the prior Fringe Agreement said agriculture use is preferred and that is it .....So then we got to where we are now. Norton/But they are willing to leave that outlot... in agricultural and put some kind of condition on it ..... VanderhoeV If they call it a cluster, then they have to put in this road with a cul de sac and .... Outlot becomes residential... Franklin/The status of this property will not be non-conforming. It will be illegal. Something becomes non-conforming by being built according to the law and then having the law change. And this isn't the circumstance here .... Lehman/How do we resolve this? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 6 Franklin/I think you come to a conclusion based up on the Fringe Agreement and your interpretation as to what is appropriate for this piece of ground aside from all the circumstance which created it ....Send that onto the county ....Let them deal with the particulars of this case. Thomberry/I am not crazy sending the county a letter requesting anything at this point on this property. I don't think they give a damn what we request .... Lehman/I think they do .... Thornberry/ Lehman/ O'Donnell/It is RS-10, why doesn't this qualify? Franklin/Because the way it is laid out .... Each lot is actually smaller than that ..... this all becomes a part of the rezoning to an RS-10 .... That is RS-10 with a cluster and that is what the county says is not acceptable to them ..... The county has said you cannot do this, you cannot split these off and sell them separately ..... cluster development is not allowed according the their interpretation of Fringe Area B. Thomberry/Are they going to make them tear down one of those houses then? Franklin/No, they are not going to and probably no court would ever require them to tear down the houses. What it may mean is that they have to condominimize them instead of splitting the land .... Joint ownership of the land .... Can't buy the piece of land .... Makes it more difficult in the market place .... Kubby/Some of this is the property owner's building without going through the right process .... I think it is very appropriate to send this letter .... To have us deny this .... They decide what to do .... Use to be .... They would vote on the rezoning... and it was a total disrespect for that mutual agreement. Since we had the new agreement, they have been following it. Thornberry/Except for the time when we sent them the letter requesting denial of a building and they did in anyway .... Just recently in the last 2-3 weeks. Kubby/You should talk to people you know on the Board who voted for that. Thornberry/..they did it anyway... So what difference does it make whether we send them a letter or not. Kubby/... our viewpoint. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 7 Vanderhoef/We are consistent. I can see sending them a letter. Norton/I am not sure whose problem it really is .... They may ignore it but what can you do? .... Kubby/...not interested in having a thousand exceptions to our current Fringe Area Agreement ..... county can figure out if they want to rezone this or not .... There might be a hundred of these little exceptions and I am not interested in opening up the Fringe Area Agreement for every little exception .... Franklin/I think ... the Commission... struggle with the issues of what the law says and the Fringe Agreement and what is fight in that context .... Human factor or two people who messed up .... Lehman/The paragraph also suggests that city and county staff discuss this. Franklin/For us to kind of work it out on interpretations and I am not sure that that is possible if the two political bodies are interpreting it one way and it is hard to divorce this from the Eyman issue. I think you are going to have a request to have representatives of council or the whole council meet with the board about the Fringe Agreement .... Lehman/Karin, your recommendation is that we send a letter? Franklin/Yes. Lehman/Do you believe anything can be accomplish by visiting with county staff?. Franklin/On this particular item- No, I don't because we have had those discussions. Lehman/We have an agreement .... County ....Not sure it is a good idea for us to bend our rules to make it easier .... Thornberry/I am just saying why send the letter ..... Lehman/I think you have to send the letter. Vanderhoef/ Lehman/Can't ignore the request. Norton/If they think about it a long time .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 8 Dilkes/I think it is dangerous to start talking about exceptions ....I think you have to decide how you interpret the Fringe Area Agreement .... Thornberry/ Dilkes/...I am just saying it is dangerous to start about exceptions to the Fringe Area Agreement .... Kubby/I would like us to send this letter of denial and take off this second part of it. Just send them the denial. Vanderhoef/I agree. Norton/I do too. Lehman/ .... and let the county deal with it. Dilkes/Okay, I will have a revised letter for you. Lehman/Okay. Thornberry/When the county starts changing the rules on the Fringe Area Agreement, there is nothing we can do about it ..... Franklin/Actually, I think what you can do is that you can take some action against the COunty. Kubby/What is that? Franklin/...the two political bodies have gotten together and had a discussion. Dilkes/We have an agreement that deals with real estate and probably have some type of action for specific performance or something along those lines .... Dean. I was not saying whether you should or shouldn't send a recommendation. That was not what I was addressing. What I was addressing is how you should go about analyzing what your recommendations should be in the event you choose to make one. Kubby/ .... have an agreement with the county on is that if we disagree on a zoning or a platting issue, that before a decision is made .... That we sit down and talk through it ..... before they make the decision. Thornberry/That is why I would like to meet with them instead of just send a letter. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 9 Lehman/I think... we perhaps should do both. But I do think... prior to an action on the part of the city or the county, if there is going to be a disagreement and the action taken by the county is going to be in violation of the Fringe Agreement, that we sit down and discuss it prior to their taking action. O'Donnell/Before they make the decision. Vanderhoef/They are not going to know until they vote. Lehman/That sort of arrangement is not a bad idea .... Better to talk about it .... Vanderhoef/How are we going to know until after they have voted? Kubby/Because they have Tuesday informal meetings to talk about stuff.... Tending towards .... Franklin/They also have three votes just like you do .... Do we have agreement that we would like to discuss some of those things...? I think that is a good idea ....I am going to hear tomorrow from the board and I will relay that to them. Norton/...other options .... May need to change growth boundaries .... Vanderhoef/We always have that two mile .... Kubby/We really haven't negotiated away the two mile .... The process is different. Thornberry/Is it stated by law, Karin, that it is two miles? Franklin/Yes .... It can be less than two miles by the city' s choice. Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 10 Review Agenda Items 98-113 S1 1. Karr/(Agenda Item #4d.(5)-IDOT FUNDING FROM FEDERAL RECREATIONAL TRAILS PROGRAM). Mr. Mayor, I would just like to note a correction on page 3 of the agenda ..... Item #5 on page 3 in the comment. The comment total ... should be changed from $304,000 to $400,000 and .... 80% of the project cost or $320,000. Those are revised figures. Norton/ Karr/It is a cost estimate .... 2. Kubby/(Agenda Item #15- TEMPORARILY CLOSING A PORTION OF JEFFERSON STREET/TEMPORARY USE OF PUBLIC RIGHT & Item #16 TEMPORARY USE OF PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR A PORTION OF MARKET STREET). I had some concerns about items #15 & 16 in terms for all of these sidewalks that are going to be out of whack ..... There still is a sidewalk on Iowa Avenue on that side... isn't as safe .... Worded that all of these east/west ways for people to get around are all at the same time ....Out of whack. I am just concerned about that. Vanderhoef/I would rather not have it in the middle of the winter with ice and snow. Lehman/...Item #16, what is the time frame on that? Vanderhoef/We don't have one. Dilkes/I am sure there is. · Norton/ ....#16, page 2 ....October 21 ....Completion no later than January 1. Lehman/Basically two months. Kubby/I would rather have them not be out of commission all at the same time. Norton/ Kubby/You don't want people walking on them... reschedule work so we don't have three of these in a non-normal way at the same time. Lehman/ .... Is there a determination made as to the inconvenience or how much this is going to disrupt things? Atkins/I would like to believe that staff looks at that ....Public safety perspective. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 11 Lehman/If there were a concern, would we have that in our comment? .... Atkins/Whether it finds its way in the comment, I don't know. Kubby/ Atkins/I will pose that question to Chuck tomorrow moming .... Vanderhoef/...if they stay on that time schedule... the University .... In the materials it talks about they will put asphalt down now and re-concrete the street in May. My request is that they don't do that until after graduation and students leave town ..... If we put it off a week and out of town traffic out of here .... Norton//I am sure Gibson ought to be aware of that .... Norton/I was wondering about closing manholes, too. Kubby/Making sure rehab of the area is done after graduation ..... Champion/ Lehman/Other comments .... 3. Vanderhoef/(Agenda Item #9- AMEND PLANT INFLUENT ZINC STANDARDS). Can someone answer why we have two different standards for zinc at the two different water plants? Lehman/I am sure that is probably a technical question .... Kubby/I talked to Dave Elias today... because of the different flows that can come in at each plant. Vanderhoef/Do the plants themselves check that water so that they can slow down or dilute it as it comes in? Kubby/Zinc actually just goes through the plant. We don't treat for it .... My concern is that it is not costing of any more on the front end ..... doesn't cost us on the back end .... Because it is just passing through. My concern is what does that increase level of zinc do to the quality of the surface water and health and well being of the river? Dave said it doesn't do anything but I want to ask more questions of some water quality people ..... Dave is pretty good .... Part of the issue is that Proctor and Gamble is producing more dandruff products ..... they want to be able to put more zinc in. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 12 4. Norton/(Agenda Item #7- AMENDING SECTION 8-5-5, ENTITLED "KEEPING DISORDERLY HOUSE" ). I am having trouble with... so called party ordinance .... Make sure you understand exactly what changes are being made. We don't have the original language here and the new language added in brackets or something. It is a little hard to tell .... Lehman/Tomorrow night, Eleanor, when we start the p.h. on this, could you tell us specifically the changes that we are proposing? Dilkes/The changes from- Norton/The present ordinance. Dilkes/ Norton/ Dilkes/I can highlight what changes are being made from the present ordinance. Kubby/I think that would be a good way to introduce the p.h ..... people could comment on the changes. Norton/ Champion/...As you all know, I have real problems with this ordinance although I feel like I should support it because I can see the need for it. I could support it if I knew there was some criteria that would be used when these parties were approached and not just somebody driving by and seeing that there is a party going on .... How is that criteria set up? Kubby/That list of behaviors .... Champion/ .... I have real problems ....Is it left to individual discretion? Thornberry/The way it is now, it is left up to the discretion of the neighbor ....of the homeowner next door .... Champion/This is a person who has power .... A policeman is different from you or me .... Is there something developed by a police department to help police decide?... O'Donnell/ .... I think what this is trying to avoid is burning couches in from yards and the escalation. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 13 Champion/ Dilkes/What is it about the discretion of the officer that you think is being changed? Even under our current ordinance if there is a complaint that a police officer responds to, there is a discretion there as to whether it meets the standard on such that it is a disturbance to the neighborhood ..... And our current Disorderly Conduct Statute there is ajudgement call that has to be made by the police officer as to whether it is unreasonable noise .... Those kind ofjudgement calls are made by police officers all of the time in a variety of ways under a number of our criminal ordinances. Kubby/...when they can intervene .... Dilkes/And the discretion, once a citation is issued .... As we were drafting this... require that they issue a citation before they would have the authority to shut down or to order disbursal .... They cannot order the disbursal until they issue a citation which means they have made a judgement call that they have a provable violation of disorderly house. Lehman/I think this discussion should be at the p.h ..... These are meaty things .... Thomberry/ ..... 40 different visits in one year and these were by complaints by neighbors and two citations were given out of those 40 complaints .... Kubby/So what if we directed that they be more aggressive about citing no matter what ordinance. Thomberry/You are going to get complaints both ways ..... Norton/Be sure we are discussing the correct issues .... Dilkes/ Lehman/Eleanor, you will have the opportunity to explain this before we even start the p.h. 5. Norton/(Agenda Item #8- AMENDING TITLE 8, CHAPTER 6, SECTION 1 ENTITLED "SALE OF CIGARETTES TO PERSONS UNDER EIGHTEEN YEARS OF AGE"). Are we literally going to enforce that now? Kubby/We shouldn't pass it unless- Norton/In principle we have been enforcing it on behalf of the state ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 14 Dilkes/It is a state charge, correct. Norton/Now it will be a local charge. Thomberry/...are we going to require our Police Department to cite these people for smoking under age? .... Kubby/ Karr/It also adds tobacco products and not just cigarettes ....Mirrors the state code ..... Kubby/One of my concems .... Should not do this unless we are going to say enforce it .... If it is something that is just in front of you that you deal with it ..... scared the geographic tendency for enforcement will be on the Ped Mall and not all throughout the community ..... Norton/That is a good place to enforce it. Vanderhoef/It is very visible .... Kubby/ ....It should be enforced in all different places around the city. Norton/...make the Ped Mall a no smoking area. Champion/I would favor that. Norton/Absolutely. Champion/It would sure cut down on the litter. Norton/ ....under pressure from anti-tobacco element .... To do something about this ..... Dilkes/You should remember... penalty... established by State law ..... in the first instance it is a civil penalty .... It is not the easiest enforcement .... Vanderhoef/The opportunity to do the MECCA educational program .... Your office, Eleanor, would be in charge of seeing if this is a repeat offender .....citation .... Dilkes/One of the things of making it a city charge is the city, my staff, would be the prosecutors .... Vanderhoef/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 15 Dilkes/What do you anticipate the cost? ..... Dilkes/I don't think it will be particularly significant unless there is a change in the enforcement .... Lehman/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-113 SIDE 2 Lehman/We could enforce on a complaint basis .... Thornberry/...secondary charge... If they were to cite someone for smoking underage, would they have the power to take the rest of the cigarettes from them? ..... Dilkes/I would suspect that they would .... Thornberry/ ....power to take the rest of the cigarettes. Champion/I have seen police take cigarettes from kids.. O'Donnell/What is the first offense fine? Dilkes/The first offense is a $25 civil penalty. Lehman/Okay, other agenda items? Thornberry/Connie had another question .... Lehman/Are you talking about the party ordinance? Let's do that tomorrow night .... Covered by the media. I think the public should hear it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 16 Downtown Water Feature 98-113 S2 Lehman/Downtown water feature .... Franklin/What you have ... resolution requesting that you accept the selection of the public art advisory committee of the artists of Andrea Myklebust and Stanton Sears... weatherdance to be the new urban water feature on the downtown pedestrian mall. Four of you... opportunity o look at this .... Three of you attended the public meeting .... I think you know the general scheme of things here .... I will run through it very quickly... It is a theme that is based on weather and direction and the agricultural theme of Iowa .... Idea is that you have a cloud wall on... planter .... Weather front coming in from the west ....Lines... jets ....To mimic the lines that you see on a weather map on television ....This is all in the paving here (refers to water feature plan) .... Brass plates with some of the symbols of Iowa... symbols that artist derived from the visit to McBride .... Fossil .... The whole thing .... Shape of johnson County .... Symbolic of the Iowa River .... This piece .... Mimic the landscape that you see as you look out over Iowa or rural Johnson County... different shades of granite. The jets arch over and there are seven jets and the arches are variable in size .... (All talking). Lehman/What is the size of this feature? Franklin/Ten feet high is the highest arch .... Thornberry/What is the distance between one end and the other end? Franklin/14 feet .....arches over and goes into a very shallow swail ....Splash puddle .... Drain .....deal with two fixed manhole covers... storm sewer ....Other one... has a compass motif... decorative manholes .... Square top for the pump house .... Lehman/Where is that located relative to the present fountain? Franklin/(Refers to map)...probably about here .... Ensure that we had fire lanes here and through here .... Important .... This will be very different from the existing fountain... there will not be a structure in place .... Increased viewing of the performance stage .... We can turn the arches off.... Interactive parts... stepping on the jets .... Thornberry/ Franklin/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 17 Lehman/What is the cost of this? Franklin/ .... total that she is requesting is $70,000 .... That is with the granite ..... She feels very confident... do this within the budget ..... Some of these costs have to do with undemeath with all of this .... We have a water main that is going in here on College Street ..... re-establishment of that and the concrete surface is coming out of the streetscape budget. Thornberry/Noah, south and east... are those inlaid? Franklin/Yes... metal castings just like the manhole covers and the squares. Vanderhoef/Did you mention anything... different thickness of the granite .... Concern about having vehicles drive over it and breaking. Franklin/One of the other requirements here is that we should be able to have a fire truck drive over it .... 70,000 pounds. Lehman/This will be placed on concrete .... Franklin/Correct, you got to have a very good sub-base... Working with Andy Rocca throughout this .... Norton/I have three questions .... Lighting ....Computer .... Franklin/That discussion came up in the Public Art Committee .... Next step is to have a meeting between the Committee and the artists... lighting was another issue. One thing about the lighting... on the south end of this, down near the Holiday Inn .... Talking to Holiday Inn on whether it is going to be three lights, two lights, five globes, one globe. There will be lighting at that point. Also the large overhead lights that are used for the performances here ....Going to have a lot of potential lighting down on it .... Norton/...everything is synchronized .... Franklin/Issue ....Cost... whether the variability in the arches destroys the artists concept .... These folks seem to me to be very easy folks to work with, Andrea and Dan ....They have worked in public art before ..... they were very open to talking about their work and talking with people about it .... Fruitful... The cost is certainly going to be a factor there in terms of any computerization of the jets. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 18 Franklin/We had a discussion in the Public Art Advisory Committee... when you put a call out for a certain budget, you will have artists respond within the context of that budget. If you start tweaking with the budget afterwards, then the fairness of the call and response is compromised. Thornberry/ ....enhanced with what you got .... Franklin/ Norton/What about re-circulate? .... Is it strictly recycling or does it change every couple of days? .... Franklin/Part of this project is a new pump house .... I would assume .... Make accommodations of that kind of treatment .... Norton/...start with new water the next day .... Champion/ Norton/ Lehman/We will be concerned about cleanliness of the water and public health. Franklin/I am assuming that is a given .... Kubby/One of the two major reasons we are doing this .... Vanderhoef/Safety of that water is terribly important. Kubby/Other issue .... The pool of water on the illustration looks very small ..... Franklin/There won't be that opportunity. If you are in the pool, you will be in the jets. It is basically a splash area for the jets. O'Donnell/Great idea. Kubby/I am interested to see if it can be designed with just a slightly bigger pool area ..... so that you could wade in on the edges .... Beauty of that fountain... a place where you can get wet .... Franklin/ Vanderhoef/How big is that splash pool .... Concern...w e don't have a space where everybody is going to trip ..... drop off or toe stubber. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 19 Franklin/Less than a swail .... and has drains at two or three spots .....not be a drop-off... indentation .... O'Donnell/ Franklin/ ....Details that we will get as we proceed on this. Vanderhoef/My concern on the swail part of it is that when the jets are off.... That it isn't something that is going to tfip people up. (All talking). Franklin/Maybe what would be advantageous .... As we move along with this, the artist is going to be back in town to work .... Be working on site... that we have them come and give a presentation to you... details worked out... This is a concept .... I can't answer a lot of these questions. Lehman/Karen Kubby mentioned this .... I agree .... Folks love to be in that water .... I think, if it is possible for that pool to be larger, it really should be larger for kids to walk in .... Thornberry/There is water between the jets .... They can weave back and forth between the jets and still be in the water .... Lehman/It is something that we should be sure for young folks to interact with the water without getting soaked. Franklin/Kevin would like to make a comment. Kevin Hanick/I just wanted to mention a couple of things .... Process that we established .... We did involve in at least three different stages... chance for the public to be involved in this. We had lots of different ideas about what a fountain should be ....Three things ....Want something very attractive... safety and accessibility ....This design ... only one that seemed to me to be truly safe and accessible ....This is as close to being as safe and as accessible and beautiful fountain that we could find .... Artistic... wonderful addition to downtown .... The process .... This has been done in a very careful step by step way to get to this point and I think we are happy with that process so far .... We think we have got something that really works .... We think we have sort of accepted a concept. This is not a final version ....They are the artists ....Own integrity ....They have the final say to some extent ....Step in a fight direction ....For the Public Arts Committee, this was a unanimous vote and we are very happy with this submission .... I think we should be embracing the process that we went through This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 20 and the beauty and potential of this result and not the potential of a budget problem ....I am just very happy to put this before you as a product of our efforts ....This isn't meant to be the final product ....There is still room for some adjustments and fine tuning as we go along .... If you have any questions I can answer about the Committee's work, I would be happy to. Lehman/Thank you very much .... Sounds to me that folks are pretty enthused. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 21 College Street Traffic Calming 98-113 S2 Lehman/Doug, I think we are at College Street .... Ripley/About six weeks ago I came to you with a proposal that we have been working on with the College and Washington Street folks, specifically between Summit Street and Muscatine .... The proposal consisted of two traffic circles, one at the intersection of Summit and College and one at the intersection of Washington and Summit and two mid-block circles between Summit and Muscatine, one at each street .....Traffic calming process ....117 surveys ....Response rate of 24% .... Low response rate... We went back and re-surveyed .... Asked to calculate the parking that would be lost ....Sent out 144 surveys the second time .... Additional surveys that were sent out ....Multiple units... higher response rate, 52 returned ....26 were in favor or it and 26 were against .....The folks that were surveyed ....Based on the traffic calming process .... Kubby/I think we should try the experiment ..... I think we should follow the process for a year and monitor speed and volume .... Champion/...There is really not a majority who want it .... Majority was such a slim margin. O'Donnell/ Thornberry/I wouldn't mind trying to get more folks off of there onto Burlington Street where they probably belong .... Champion/...Burlington... a terrible turn and that is another reason why people take Washington and College Street .... Vanderhoeff It depends on where you are going .... Are those parking spaces... total? Ripley/Five on each street ....Approximation based on car lengths .... Could vary. Norton/ ....Why not just try, for examples, the circles? Are there any stop signs? .... Ripley/Summit Street has to stop .... currently. Norton/ Ripley/...One of the primary problems... people coming down the hill between Summit Street and Muscatine ....Long distance... down a steep grade .... Acceleration down through there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 22 Kubby/...as a bicyclists, I do not want to drive on Burlington .... I do not want to ride on Iowa Avenue... very narrow .... Not much room for a car to get by me. Thornberry/ Kubby/... got some wiggle room there .... You start putting stop signs... difficult .... Norton/Don't change the Summit Street stop sign .... Kubby/I agree with you, Dee, and do just the circles ..... I think Summit Street Coop had five of those surveys and they all voted no because they thought the tree in front of their house was going to go if this was done and that is not the case .... O'Donnell/There is not a majority that wants it. Thomberry/ Norton/ Thomberry/I don't want to put stuff in the middle of the street because streets are made for cars .... (All talking). Lehman/We are not going to be discussing Dee's driving habits. We have a survey that is a dead heat on the second attempt... Are we interested in trying to do something to slow traffic down on College and Washington Street? Vanderhoef/No. O'Donnell/No. Norton/Yes .... circles. Lehman/Someone from the neighborhood has got two minutes to tell us why we should slow things down .... Hillary Sale/I think I have talked to many of you .... There are several people from our neighborhood here tonight. We are very concemed about the traffic problems in our neighborhood .... Meetings with city people .... At those meetings we have not heard people express opposition .... We really feel we have done what we could as a neighborhood to try to accommodate people's concems .... problem... transient residents... hard for us to try to incorporate them into our process every time .... For example, a lot of people in the Coop .... All new tenants .... I do believe there This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 23 was a misunderstanding .... What I do want to say is that we have canvassed the neighborhood .... We heard very little opposition from the property owners .... Many of them have indicated strong support for some form of traffic calming .... Enforcement problem .... Enforce the speed .... We said .... Perfectly happy for stop signs... So after much discussion we came down to this particular alternative... oppommity to give it a try... to try to maintain the character of our neighborhood and help decrease the speed.... All traveling at or above the speed limit .... Clear majority .... I really hope that you will think seriously about giving us the opportunity .... Takes a half an hour to get rid of it if it doesn't work .... Give us the chance to try it... Thank you ..... Lehman/ O'Donnell/The first survey .... Norton/24% responded .... Ripley/ ....process was dwelling units ....Crudely create a drawing to show where the votes landed. Lehman/ ....we know the traffic volume and speed of the automobiles. Is that correct? Ripley/Yes .... 31 mph... volume was 1,200 to 1,300 range. Lehman/ Norton/I am willing to do something ..... Give it a try. Lehman/We have one try, we have two tries. Champion/I will try something. Lehman/I personally .... Don't put a lot of confidence ....I am not unwilling to try something ....I would like to see if we try something... island in intersections .... Ripley/...engineer's estimate it would be around $10,000 .... All four units ....Volume of materials .... Lehman/...possible in short amount of time to determine whether they are effective? .... Ripley/If I understand what you are asking, then the answer is yes. They wouldn't be installed until spring... Do a speed study shortly after .... Give it a little bit of time and let people get adjusted to them .... Can be recounted shortly thereafter. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 24 Lehman/I don't have a problem putting them at intersections. Norton/ ....We need to track pretty carefully. Champion/ .... intersection on College and Summit, is there is a lot of space between Muscatine Avenue and Summit Street for people to travel fast. Ripley/That is where it was initially measured was in the middle of the street. (All talking). Champion/I would rather have one in the middle of the street ..... Lehman/ .... there will be some slow down... circle .... Kubby/Our staff has seen where the problems are... either reject it totally to accept totally. Lehman/...could add the other ones later. Ripley/Problem was measured in the middle of the street .... Also had concerns further up the hill. Circles at Summit Street are more a definition issue than they are a control issue .... Define the neighborhood... expected to slow down .... Vanderhoef/ Norton/...ridiculous to try to design it here on the fly. We had better just maybe go with it. Vanderhoef/ Lehman/We have one for everything, two for everything, three for everything, do it. Champion/ Thornberry/ Ripley/They will be initially asphalt and they will be black ....yellow. [Council Break]. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 25 Circus and Rodeo Permit Regulations 98-113 S2 Goodman-Herbst/Mostly we revised the definitions .... Under Rodeo where it says team nmning, it supposed to be team penning. Lehman/Are these some sort of standard regulations? .... taken from some ordinance? Goodman-Herbst/Some of them are, some of them aren't. The housing for the circus animals, yes, was taken from Bamum Bailey's criteria for maintaining their animals, the highest criteria .... best in the country ..... Some of the rodeo issues were taken from the National Rodeo Association guidelines. Lehman/ .... If a rodeo or circus were to come to Iowa City, would they find our regulations significantly different from regulations in other well regulated cities? Goodman-Herbst/Yes .... A lot of other cities don't state them like this... They have permit requirements .... Officers determine whether or not they pass .... subjective .... This writes it out a little bit plainer... they know what they need to fulfill .... Spells it out. Norton/...You list a bunch of specific events .... Calf roping? Goodman-Herbst/And I don't list them, do I? Norton/Are these suppose to be illustrative? CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-114 SIDE 1 Norton/Or just say events involving animals such as .... Goodman-Herbst/When I first came to some of you, I didn't want to allow them at all... I adjusted it a bit... allow the rodeo events that are still common ....These events are events that are less likely to injure animals. Norton/Calf roping will do it in a hurry. Goodman-Herbst/...You don't get to chase pigs anymore. Thornberry/The greased pig thing is gone. Norton/ .... Circus, came to town... It was in town and it had trained seals .... Million different varieties of the thing ....Pretty inclusive ....You mean any animals, right? Goodman-Herbst/I am not sure I am understanding .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 26 Kubby/ Goodman-Herbst/I have never seen a seal at a rodeo. Norton/ Goodman-Herbst/There are animals that are not mentioned under circus here that circuses will have and we will deal with those as they come .... Norton/Please add calf roping .... Heavy duty .... Goodman-Herbst/It is not allowed. Thornberry/ Goodman-Herbst/These are the only things that can take place .... They may request other events and we would decide whether or not those were okay. Thomberry/ Goodman-Herbst/ Lehman/Is this worthy of a great deal of discussion? (All talking). Lehman/I don't know where in the city we have places for one anyway. Norton/Annex the fair grounds. Champion/How about an empty parking lot? .... Goodman-Herbst/Are you guys now trying to decide whether you want to have them or not? Norton/ Thornberry/This says this is all you got ....Making it so severe that they are not going to come. Goodman-Herbst/Johnson County Fairgrounds just had a rodeo, these are the only events they had ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 27 Lehman/ Thomberry/ Lehman/We are not going to allow calf roping... no grease pigs. Thornberry/Can you believe no grease pigs in Iowa? Gee. Goodman-Herbst/ .... Section D. of the circus rules and regulations... Elephants. I would really like everybody to think about not allowing elephants. Primarily it is a major issue to maintain them .... Elephants .... Can be maintained in some kind of truck... have to be walked, usually done by chain, they push them along with a hook .... They smack it into them all of the time to get them to move. The problem with elephants is that they are unmanageable if they decide not to be. I brought a video here. It is three minutes... Elephant escapes at circuses .... Thornberry/I am not going to watch this .... That is one sided ....I don't like it. Goodman-Herbst/All I am trying to show you is it is an animal that weighs tons, it is not a tiger .... And it is very difficult to maintain them and keep them safe. Lehman/Tigers are quicker. Goodman-Herbst/I tumed off the sound .... Rated X, it is a rough video (presents elephant video) ....Happened recently in '97... trainer and handler of this animal were both killed ....Public injured ....This elephant had to be shot over 100 times to get it to go down ....It is a very serious issue to maintain these animals .... Chain them by the legs ....They are large roaming animals .... Lehman/You can actually turn it off.... Goodman-Herbst/There are four different incidents here of elephants escaping from circuses ....Professional circuses ....I am not going to be able to deal with it if it gets loose ....If an elephant gets loose in this city, you are going to have a problem. Kubby/ ....store the animals that aren't allowed outside the city .... Goodman-Herbst/ .... Bamum Bailey will maintain their animals in circus trains and in other areas .... Outskin areas. Lehman/Are there cities that do not allow elephants? Goodman-Herbst/I don't know what ones they are .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 28 Norton/...Madison .... Young daughter was grabbed by an elephant .... Goodman-Herbst/The concern is the size and controlling them .... I would really like to take that out of here. Kubby/Elephants are naturally in a herd .... Domesticated dogs are different than elephants in a circus. Thomberry/For a kid to go to a circus and not see an elephant. Kubby/It is not going to scar them for life. They will see other animals. Norton/I will talk to Byron Burford. He is an elephant handler. Goodman-Herbst/Did anybody have any other questions about any part of this? Vanderhoef/...definitions under circus rules and regulations, you have performing animals and non-performing animals .... Did you exclude on purpose work animals? Goodman-Herbst/No...generally in circuses they are not referred to as working animals .... They are performing animals or non-performing animals. Vanderhoef/ Kubby/Are there other changes in the text? .... Goodman-Herbst/No. Kubby/Where do petting zoos come into all of our regulations? Goodman-Herbst/Usually fall in the acts and exhibition section of the permit code. Kubby/So they do need a permit? Goodman-Herbst/Un-huh. Kubby/ Goodman-Herbst/Only other change... under primate we included monkeys ..... added new world and old wo~d monkeys. O'Donnell/When did we have our last circus in the city? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 29 Kubby/We had one on the Hancher grounds. Goodman-Herbst/The armory has one every year .... Norton/That is where the seals were .... Vanderhoef/On the last page, #8, there is a typo... quantity. Kubby/When would this come back to us? Vanderhoef/ Thornberry/ ....# 15 .... Goodman-Herbst/The reason why it is important is because agricultural requirements for the state and federal are involved in both rodeos and circuses for health reasons primarily to insure that animals are properly vaccinated, not working while sick .... Thornberry/Misha, I want the animals treated humanely .... It would seem to me that the people who own these animals- (All talking). Thornberry/ ....when you have a circus .... You go to see certain events ....Certain things ....Why you can't have them here? .... Goodman-Herbst/The whole point of the caging and the requirements... public safety. Kubby/People know up front what the expectations are .... They should be explicitly written down and know about it ahead of time .... Easier. Thornberry/I am just saying it is quite restrictive .... There are regulations, federal, state, rodeo associations, all of these things that are... taking the animal's welfare to heart .... Other places have elephants, calf roping, greased pigs .... Norton/ Thornberry/ Kubby/Then they have to go to the fair grounds and they can't come into the city limits. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 30 Goodman-Herbst/My employee, Amanda Cardenas tides in rodeos and I discussed this with her .... She said that is what most of them do now .... Huge events that would never come to this city .... O'Donnell/All cities I assume have something fairly similar to this? Goodman-Herbst/The difference is this city tends to put their rules and regulations a little different than I have seen other cities' do it .... Norton/If we promulgate these, we will hear from the rodeo people .... I don't think it is written as clear of definition of rodeo as it might be and you may want to add the same phrase you have there whether there is admission or not .... Lehman/So you would like us to think about elephants? Goodman-Herbst/Yes. Lehman/...When would we like to look at this again because I don't think this is a major issue. O'Donnell/ Goodman-Herbst/How about next meeting? Lehman/I don't see this as being too big of a deal .... Thornberry/ (All talking). Lehman/Let's get tllis out of the way at the next meeting .... Vanderhoef/Is there a difference between the PCRC and the PCRA? Goodman-Herbst/No, it is PCRC .... Vanderhoef/ Goodman-Herbst/I will cheek it. Thornberry/What do you got against greased pigs? .... Lehman/All right .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 31 Sales Tax Ballot Proposition 98-114 S1 Lehman/Sales tax ballot proposition. Atkins/I put in your packet a copy of the pro osition as I understood it to be ....You will be considering having a p.h. on the 3r~ I am assuming you are eventually going to have to pass a resolution approving some sort of ballot proposition .... O'Donnell/No matter how you read this... it is zero for property tax relief.... I would really like to see something there. Champion/I would, too. Lehman/We have talked about this and talked about this and talked about this .... We haven't made a lot of progress. We have agreed that we would take public input and I really believe that until we take public input, we have come down to the same breakdown .... Same formula... I don't sense a lot of disagreement .... Ballot question be extremely clear to people .... What you have, Steve, fairly represents the conclusion we seemed to have come to on three or four different occasions .... Norton/ Atkins/The tax policy is intended for you all so that you sort of speak with one voice for each item. Norton/ ....these are just categories ....May or may not lead to any property tax relief. Lehman/That is correct. Norton/And that should be consistent on both the last two items .... Atkins/Your sales tax policy can be virtually anything you want it to be ....You speak with one voice .... Kubby/This issue of whether it is new money or not is a fiscal...community needs... political issue... at least some component of new services .... Could be in our tax policy .... I wouldn't want it to say all new money .... So I don't mind the ballot language not being explicit... Some years it might be one way and some years it might be another... Our tax policy ....To show some new services on those three categories. Norton/...human services category .... I don't know where to be clear about that .... Atkins/I think the policy statement remains an important document for you all .... You must settle on a ballot proposition sooner or later... has to be certified by the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 32 elections commissioner .... It has to be spelled out clearly on the ballot. After your ballot, you may wish to make some changes to the ballot proposition. Vanderhoef/I think it will come out during the public heating what things they don't understand about our policy and we will know .... Kubby/...on election night... holding one of the most important public meetings .... Where many active people in this community are involved in partisan politics .... Thornberry/...you could always delay this thing .... Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ Dilkes/There has been no advertising, it is just to set it. Vanderhoef/It has been talked about a whole lot .... If we have a low turn out... continue the p.h. But the time frame will be different .... O'Donnell/If we are going to have a good sell on this .... I think it is very important to say something about property tax .... How does this benefit me? .... Norton/ Lehman/...conclusion after our public meeting... I would rather wait until we have out public meeting .... Norton/Does the policy statement go out with- How is this presented to the public7 Atkins/The policy statement would be a document that we could make available here... In a narrative fashion .... Speak with one voice. Norton/...Human services .... You do not know whether it will replace what is now being spent out of the General Fund or whether it will add to that .... Atkins/Each council will determine, just say that. Norton/ Lehman/ Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 33 Kubby/Our current policy, a majority of council has said that it would relieve the Aid to Agency... and that we would add additional funding to Human Services .... That can get changed with a new council .... Norton/I want to be sure that it is additional. Vanderhoef/You cannot bind future councils. (All talking). Dilkes/A couple of things .... There is a disclaimer at the beginning of the policy statement that explains what it is... The motion setting the p.h. specially says that on both the ballot language and the policy statement .... Norton/The policy statement has to be just fight .... Lehman/I think the policy statement after the public meeting... hopefully we will get some input. Kubby/Are we projected to vote on the ballot resolution... on the 17th? Karr/That was the proposal .... The proposed schedule. Kubby/That we hold a special city council meeting... continuation of the p.h. from November 3 .... We also discuss what we heard on the 3rd ..... So that we can make any adjustments to the proposed ballot language and the sales tax policy so that it is ready for us to vote on on November 17 .... Norton/ Kubby/We can't just have the hearing on November 3 .... Lehman/What you are suggesting is that we have the hearing on the 3rd, we continue that .... Kubby/Yeah, so that we hear continued public input .... Champion/ Lehman/If we met on the 10tn .... Probably have a little time on the work session on the 16tn .... Champion/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 34 Lehman/Does the 10th work? Kubby/Find a date that works for all seven of us. We can accommodate your schedule Dean .... Lehman/5th iS a Thursday ..... Norton/I have trouble with the wording of this thing ....I am afraid at the p.h. we will get bogged down .... (All talking- meeting schedule discussion). Karr/Tomorrow night, instead of November 3rd yOU would set October 29? Lehman/Does that work? .... Karr/Third night in the row .... Lehman/Does the 29th work? Karr/7:00 PM, special formal for public discussion only. Lehman/All fight. Karr/Amend item #21 tomorrow night .... Tuesday, CIP .... Wednesday is your Joint Meeting... Thursday will be a special .... Kubby/Are we still going to have November 3 p.h.? If we do, when is it that we would talk about it? Lehman/ .... talk about it on the 3rd ..... Kubby/If there would be maj or changes ..... Lehman/Don't you think we will have pretty good ideas about changes on the 3ra? Norton/ Kubby/ Norton/ Karr/Meeting dates in November .... Formals are the 3ra and 17th. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 35 Lehman/Let' s go on the 29th...formal meeting, continue the hearing until the 3rd, close the hearing on the 3ra .... Champion/ .... I don't want you discussing the sales tax without me. Lehman/...p.h. won't be closed until the 3r~ ....There won't be any decisions made on the 2"a .....7:00 PM on the 29th. Karr/We are going to be setting it for two nights? ....Do you want to advertise it for two nights? .... Kubby/ Lehman/ Karr/Set it for two nights? Lehman/That is fight, 29th and the 3ra ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 36 Elks Driving Range 98-114 S1 Lehman/Elks driving range .... Kubby/There is a letter here, too, tonight... from Cortney Daniels .... Atkins/We have submitted all the information that you have on your agenda .... Kubby/So why is it on our agenda? Lehman/Because they asked for it. Vanderhoef/I asked Terry to just bring the preliminary concept plan for what they are planning to do in that area .... Thornberry/Where is the proposed driving range? Trueblood/The proposed driving range it right over there... outlined that with the red dotted area (refers to plan) .... Area up in here .... is the park land development. This is the first preliminary concept .... The trails are expanded in it ..... Thornberry/So it is basically in what you call the buffer? Yes. Trueblood/ Thomberry/ .... this buffer ....That light colored area .... Trueblood/(Refers to plan) The upper area is all up in here... the buffer... hillsides coming around .... This would actually be... part of the parkland area. Thornberry/ Trueblood/...this is a par 5 (refers to plan). Lehman/That is fight adjacent to the golf hole? (All talking-refers to plan). Kubby/Seems important to review the process of how we negotiated with the Elks .... This was a very kind of painful and difficult negotiation that took place. The city gave up some stuff that we really wanted to make Foster Road happen .... So their golf course could be maintained in a reasonable manner .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-114 SIDE 2 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 37 Kubby/...I was just waiting for other council members to pay attention .... People were talking .... O'Donnell/You do it constantly, I don't like that. Lehman/All right. Kubby/I do it constantly? O'Donnell/I do it constantly? Kubby/ Lehman/All fight, getting back to the golf course. Kubby/This was something that there were trade-offs involved .... Here we are without reopening those negotiations giving them a large portion of the open passage area of the peninsula .... We had three different committees and a consultant saying don't do this. I have no intent of doing this ....I think we should vote no tomorrow night. Lehman/...I think the problem we had... involved the portion up above .... Very valuable property .... Trade away some very prime developable ground to them so we could put Foster Road through .... I consider this... flood plain property... little value .... Question is .... Received letters from several folks encouraging us not to allow this ..... That is a deadend? ..... Trueblood/I don't believe there is a fence line, there might be. Lehman/We do not have access along the river with a trail. Trueblood/At this time, that is correct. Norton/We could (refers to plan). Lehman/Where does the Elk's Club start? Trueblood/(Refers to map) Right there is the property line .... Norton/The city could go beyond that. Lehman/I think there is room for a trail there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 38 Norton/ .... I find it squeezing it in there. It is not big enough .... It is just not rational squeezing it in there .... Thornberry/Look at the driving range at Pleasant Valley... This is not different .... Kubby/Cormey Daniels .... In her letter .... I would ask people to read the letter and take that into consideration .... Norton/Then three commissions have looked at this... Riverfront... Parks and Rec .... staff committee .... None of them thought this was a compatible use. Lehman/Where is the archeological site? Trueblood/(Refers to plan) Somewhere fight below that .... O'Donnell/I don't have any problem with this .... 500-600 tax paying members out there... agreeing to rent this ground... How much do you need? Kubby/But why does a private club get to have that much of that ground out there? Thornberry/They still give lessons and stuff to the general public .... O'DonnelF (All talking). Thornberry/The memo from John Yapp .... Frequent mowing and maintenance... agreed not to use any pesticides .... Would not be consistent in appearance .... If this driving range ....Was down here (refers to map) I think it would be inappropriate ....I don't see a lot of problem... Kubby/What about he sculpture that is there currently? .... Trueblood/I don't think it would need to be moved. You are obviously going to have golf balls adding to the art. O'DonnelF (Refers to map). Thornberry/(Refers to map). O'DonnelF Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 39 Thomberry/...It is kind of a protection for people in the park. In other words, if you are going this way (refers to map) .... You would be hitting them into this area .... If you are going to have a driving range, it is a good place for it. Lehman/ .... Question is... is that a compatible use with the golf hole that is there .... To the value that it has for the city for some other use .... If and when we ever get a trail... that becomes an impediment to that trail. It is basically a deadend .... Kubby/ .... desire for a driving range... opportunity to get a facility that we stated... that we wanted .... Which is the trail along the river through the Elks property. Lehman/I think we would. Kubby/We re not, we are going to vote on this tomorrow night with no negotiations. Lehman/We are a long ways from having a trail along the Elks Club .... Kubby/But once you vote on a resolution with the intent to convey this land .... Your negotiating power is gone. Norton/...planning a trail... Would the trail be incompatible with the driving range coming at you? Vanderhoef/Yes, I think it would. Thomberry/ Lehman/When we first started talking about that golf course... significant interest in putting that trail in along the river .... Trail and pump house .... If we really want that trail and I think there is a certain group of folks who really do want that trail .... There may be some sort of bargaining chip here in helping us move that trail up sooner rather than later ....If we really want that trail... talk some sort of trade. Champion/ Lehman/This is a new ballgame ..... Norton/ Lehman/Is there interest in telling the Elks that any interest in that particular piece of property for a driving range would be entertained along with some sort of a proposal to extend our trail along the golf course? ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 40 Norton/ Thornberry/If I were an Elk .... Saying we are renting this land from you .... You would like to rent some land for a trail? Lehman/Maybe we don't rent it .... Norton/We want easement .... Thomberry/...there is no municipal golf course .... It is a membership only thing. Norton/It says generally low usage membership only .... Thornberry/ Vanderhoef/I would like to see... if... city recreation could give consistent lessons to children. Lehman/There is obviously enough questions about this .... We are not going to vote on this tomorrow night. Kubby/We need to defer this. Lehman/Is there interest in discussing with the Elks the possibility of re-opening discussion relative to the trail along the river? Vanderhoef/Yes. Champion/Yes. Kubby/Yes. Norton/Yes .... Kubby/ Lehman/ Kubby/We should defer this indefinitely .... Lehman/Defer that along with a suggestion... reopen ...negotiating the trail. O'Donnell/If they do not want to negotiate for the trail, what is the answer? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 41 Lehman/Wait and see what they have to say first. O 'Donnell/ Norton/ Champion/If we want to put a trail along the river there .... Major link... We need to talk to them .... Let's get our trail land and we will give you this land. Lehman/...possibility of getting... an easement .... Always have that easement for a trail... We could protect the city's interest .... Kubby/ Vanderhoef/Where we want to go through with a trail, they own .... Kubby/They can't sell it or develop it .... Thornberry/They have it forever as long as it is a golf course. Lehman/The original golf course they own... interested in an easement for a trail through that property ....Worth ....Just throw it on the table and see what they have to say .... Vanderhoef/Deferral and send them a letter. Lehman/We need to protect... access for that trail .... Kubby/We need to have four people .... Lehman/I really think .... I would like to hear what they have to say .... Kubby/ Lehman/...known that for five months and they have not pursued it until now .... Seeding should have been done .... I don't have a problem with deferring this .... They should have come to us a long time ago .... Former Elk .....Defer it tomorrow night. Champion/I Frankly am not willing to lease that land to them unless there are concessions. Lehman/Eleanor, do you hear what we are saying as far as that trail is .... Somehow protect the city .... Certain portion would go to the city. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 42 Dilkes/...approach them... talk about getting a permanent easement for the trail .... Lehman/ Vanderhoef/What is the orange circle clear on the right hand side? Treeblood/Proposed entry way for a potential bridge going across .... Also one of the well heads .... Whole area is a service road/trail. Vanderhoef/Thanks .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 43 Council Agenda/Council Time 98-114 S2 1. Karr/Note .... Agenda items for the Joint Meeting...due tomorrow... County, Noah Liberty, Coralville .... Kubby/ Champion/I thought we would be discussing sales tax. Lehman/ Karr/Sales tax is on and so is the outline areas around the fringe area. Champion/ Vanderhoef/...we have on the agenda this tobacco thing... curious... whether Coralville... the county ..... Karr/Pat White has issued a letter on that. Norton/ Vanderhoef/I think .... If there were a united front... Norton/They all could enforce it according to the state law. Dilkes/Pat White's initiative was more... using ...license revocation ....Different issue that what we are talking about here. Vanderhoef/If we are going to look at person... business .... Have a united front from all of the areas. 2. Noaon/I just want to call your attention to the minutes, October 24 meeting, of the Telecommunications Commission .... Lurking problems there .... We haven't done anything about it .... Dale, I will probably talk with you first. 3. Noaon/I wanted to point out- Do we have any direct involvement in department reviews? .... Atkins/Those that I am conducting? Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 44 Atkins/The intent is each of them .... Present to me how they see operational trends .... Five year .... They are to approach it anyway they see fit .... Certain obligations .... I am going to package it together .... Norton/More like a planning review, not so much a critique? Atkins/It is a critique because there were certain directives ....Cross jurisdictional boundaries... use ofpersounel .... Norton/Talk about it tomorrow night ..... Atkins/It is going to take a couple of months .... History .... Where we are going .... Intended to be able to give us some documentation to I can present to you... issues might be... operational, not capital 4. Norton/How did we handle the water this weekend... curious how our storm water projects that we completed work ..... Dubuque Street .... Vanderhoef/Is there still a possibility of getting that money from FEMA .... ? Atkins/No .... I will check. Norton/Shamrock... Sandusky .... Kubby/HyVee .... Creek went up three times to its banks .... Vanderhoef/ Norton/I will bring it up tomorrow. Kubby/ 5. Norton/I talked with R.J. and Mike and I are going to meet with R.J. this week to... further development on a possible proposal police auxiliary issue ..... for supplementing the police. Thomberry/I don't see any problem with keeping the lights bright. Norton/ Vanderhoef/I want us to consider... all the way out to the interstate ....Lighting .... (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 45 Vanderhoef/This was a loud request... at the Senate meeting. 6. Kubby/From citizens .... Letter from Barbara Buss asking about public discussion... Benton Street and what we are going to do about that .... When is that coming to us. Is that premature? Atkins/I think it is premature. You ought to get to the meeting on the 27th ....Then pick a date to have those folks come in. Norton/ 7. Kubby/Other letter was from the father whose son was drunk and fell and had the stitches and wants to know what we have been doing... Dale .... Stepping Up... Arkins/I think I also asked Eleanor to look into this, too. Kubby/Get it taken care of and a response ....He just wanted to know what our role was in curbing drinking. Champion/21 pitchers for $21...unreal .... Can't afford not to drink. Dilkes/On that letter, he asked for my opinion... issue about civil liability which I am really not inclined to provide. 8. O'Donnell/This cigarette issue we are talking about, I think we do have to enforce it downtown and it should be the first place .... 15-20 14 year kids .... I do think it should be enforced downtown .... Dee has a good point on this auxiliary. Kubby/...kids who get caught for smoking underage... as part of their fine should be picking up cigarettes. O'Donnell/$25 fine and pick up cigarettes. Norton/Are we doing that anymore? Arkins/I couldn't tell you but I can find out. Community service .... Dilkes/One of the things you really have to keep in mind about possession of tobacco is it is a $25 civil penalty in the first instance .... I think we have to say we will dismiss the charge if you clean up or if you go to this program .... 9. O'Donnell/Panhandling downtown. Dee brought it up... There is a young mentally disabled boy who works downtown... he is being panhandled .... 2:00 AM in the morning .... I don't know what we can do about it .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 46 Thornberry/... council made it legal to do that .... Lehman/ O 'Donnell/ Thomberry/Asking for money is not considered harassment .... They can do that. Norton/ O'Donnell/They are harassing .... Dilkes/...We pretty much when to the limits of what the constitutional law was allowing us to do. It has to be panhandling plus and it is our ordinance that says what those pluses are. Kubby/...we outlined what those pluses are. We made it clear .... Dilkes/Do you want to hear what those plusses are? Lehman/Eleanor is going to read what they are. Dilkes/Begging is illegal when 1- accompanied by harassment or assault or fraud, 2- conducted in confined spaces thereby intruding on the physical privacy of others, 3-conducted in an area where the activity will impair orderly movement or otherwise create unreasonable health and safety concerns. O'Donnell/So anytime that I am approached they are invading my privacy. Lehman/No, no, no. Thornberry/Read that last one again, Eleanor. Dilkes/Conducted in an area where the activity will impair orderly movement or otherwise create unreasonable health and safety concems. Lehman/ O'Donnell/I got a call from this older lady that told me that she got asked for $5.00 because this guy wanted to pose nude for Playgirl. She was really offended by that .... When is the next time you are going to come downtown .... Lehman/What do you suggest that we do? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 47 O'Donnell/Emie, if they are harassing people, you can site them. Lehman/ O'Donnell/It has got to be turned in .... Lehman/ O'Donnell/The same guys are there day after day .... Norton/...got to teach people what is and what isn't permissible .... Lehman/ 10. Lehman/There was a letter from the Parents/Teachers whatever from West High School regarding the bus. My suspicion is that there were enough riders on the east side to justify the route and there are not on the west. I think we should respond to that. Kubby/We are still looking at the route study. Atkins/We are doing the route study. Let's finish that. Kubby/Maybe your answer is we are looking at the route study .... And this is our time frame. Atkins/I will take care of that. Vanderhoef/It will also take coordination with Coralville to make this work, so it isn't just us. 11. Lehman/I would like to say .... Down for the races (Hospice Road Races) .... Thornberry/I lasted through about four bunches of flowers. Lehman/It was a great thing... tremendous event .... 12. Lehman/I was at a Convention and Tourism Convention today and this was a convention of toufism directors, hotel operators .... Across the state .... Wendy Ford won the award for cities of over 10,000 and I ask her to come to the meeting on November 3 and we will .... She has done such a tremendous job... her efforts... We could ..... also recognize her. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998 October 19, 1998 Council Work Session Page 48 13. O'Donnell/We served 1,600 people at a St. Wenceslaus Church dinner Sunday morning which I worked at. (All talking). Adjourned: 9:50 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 19, 1998 WS101998