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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-11-16 TranscriptionNovember 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 1 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thomberry ,Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Dilkes, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Oswald, Fosse, Yucuis, Holecek, Craig, Boothroy, Schoon, Hennes. Tapes: 98-125, Side 2; 98-126, all; 98-127, all. Review Zoning Matters 98-125 S2 a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for December 1 on an ordinance to vaeate street right-of-way located east of North Market Square Park, and south of Itoraee-Mann School. (VAC98-0006) Franklin/First item is to consider a motion to set p.h. for December 1... to vacate street r.o.w. located near Noah Market Square Park... requested by the Iowa City Community School District .... Playground area .... b. The annexation of a 19.81 acre tract located at the southeast corner of Scott Boulevard and American Legion Road. (ANN98-0001). Franklin/Item b. and c. are related... p.h. and resolution on annexation for the Silver Crest Development .... Rezoning for that. We had discussions about this at the last work session. Everything is in order .... You can go forward with this... Norton/How far down Scott is the entrance to that? .... Franklin/From the intersection of American Legion and Scott .... Norton/There is no left turn there on Scott or will there be? Franklin/ Lehman/Happy Birthday, Karin Franklin. Franklin/Thank you .... I would say ....It is probably at least 250 feet .... Noaon/I don't know what we can do about it .... Problem with the right lane, too... Franklin/There is a rehabilitation center .... Norton/Trying to make a left out of there .... Kubby/There is a four way stop... so there are regular gaps .... Franklin/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 2 Thomberry/ Norton/We are not doing anything to Amefican Legion... fight away, are we? Franklin/No, not for a long time .... Norton/...I would assume there would be a reasonable amount of traffic .... Franklin/You haven't voted on it at all ....It is not like a convenient store .... Vanderhoef/Is the rehab building at all for in-patients? Franklin/Yes .... Vanderhoef/ Franklin/I think you would have both... I don't know how much our patient there will be .... Vanderhoef/ Franklin/...one in Cedar Rapids... don't have anything like this in Iowa City... was in- patient .... (All talking). Franklin/Remember the Scott Blvd. is wide enough that we can make that four lanes at some point in the future .... c. Changing the zoning designation of 21.53 acres from Low Density Single Family Residential (RS-5), County A1, Rural, and County CH, Highway Commercial, to Planned Development Housing Overlay (OPDH-12), located at the southeast corner of Scott Boulevard and American Legion Road. (REZ98-0004) d. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 10 acres from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to Planned. Development Housing Overlay (OPDH-5), to allow 36 dwelling units, for property located at Wellington Drive and Village Road. (REZ98-0012/SUB98-0021) (First consideration) Franklin/First consideration .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 3 e. Consider a resolution approving the annexation of a 4.45 acre tract, occupied by the Court Street right-of-way, for property located at the east terminus of Court Street. (ANN98-0004) Franklin/Annexation of Court Street. f. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of a 4.45 acre tract from Suburban Residential (County RS), to Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS- 5) and Public (P) for property located at the east terminus of Court Street. (REZ98- 0015). (First consideration) Franklin/Zoning... first consideration. g. Consider an ordinance vacating the Madison Street right-of-way south of Prentiss Street, the Des Moines Street right-of-way west of Capitol Street and the 20-foot wide alley south of Prentiss Street and west of Capitol Street. (VAC98-0005) (Second consideration) Franklin/Second consideration on the vacation of Madison Street and Des Moines Street... Kubby/...later in the agenda we have got a resolution of the intent to convey and I didn't think we were ready to do that yet until we had further discussions with the University .... Atkins/Rick is suppose to be here ....He was going to recommend that it be without compensation .... h. Consider a resolution approving a final plat of Galway Hills Subdivision, Part Five, a 13.63 acre, 8-lot residential subdivision located on the south side of Melrose Avenue and West of West High School. (SUB98-0026) Franklin/Final plat of Galway Hills Subdivision. We still have some more work to do on this in terms of construction plans and legal papers. So we just ask that you defer this to December 1 .... Norton/Strikes me... serious questions... senior housing project... got some problems with who is going to be picking up the sewer connections .... Over to the · University property... Where will that go if that housing project falls apart? .... Vanderhoef/ Franklin/ ....What Dee is referring to is ....Newberry Development .... Norton/...looked to me like there was some uncertainty about whether that was going to actually happen .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 4 Franklin/The sewer connection is needed for at least for the Melrose Retirement .... One of the things that we are working through is the agreement on that sewer and exactly what everybody's obligations are. So we should have that. Norton/... also it affects storm water, sidewalk and a lot of other things .... Franklin/ Norton/ Franklin/...so far we have had no indication that Newberry Development is going to fold or not go through with this .... I think what has delayed this for so long has been the negotiations with the University over the sewer and getting that all locked in and tied down .... Vanderhoef/Has that land been sold to Newberry? Franklin/No, it can't be until it is final platted. Lehman/It is probably sold pending the approval of the final plat. Vanderhoef/ Franklin/...they don't have a piece of ground to sell... until this is finished .... Norton/Are you all happy with the street arrangements with Dublin and how it is going to connect? .... Franklin/We still got a big gap in here between this subdivision and when we get down to where Shannon is platted .....We don't know exactly how those two streets are going to connect at this point. Vanderhoef/...when they are going to plat on further south? .... Franklin/The Shannon Drive box culvert is...we agreed to... City would do the box culvert and they would extend the road over it. The Shannon Drive box culvert is in our CIP. VanderhoefJ I am wondering how soon that may come up .... What do you know about Dave Ed and their development? Franklin/Nothing .... They have given us no indication when that will happen. They still got a whole mess of lots they have not sold yet in terms of that development that is down along the interstate .... That is it for me. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 5 Lehman/Thanks, Karin. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 6 Review Aeenda Items 98-125 S2 1. Champion/I was kind of disappointed that we didn't have any local developers interested in the peninsula project. Kubby/There are a lot of local people in partnership with some of those out of town people. Franklin/There are a couple of realtors who are specifically mentioned .... I can't really tell you why local developers didn't try for it .... Stressed some experience in neo- traditional development ....Hopefully there will be some involvement in partnerships .... 2. AGENDA ITEM #7 - PUBLIC HEARING ON A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE WINTER 1998/99 DEER MANAGEMENT PLAN. Norton/Ernie, I have a couple of questions about the Deer Management Plan... Are we going to get any new counts? .... Lehman/I thought there was something in here about deer counts. Atkins/We do not have one planned that I know of.... Norton/Thing is divided into regions .... What preparation has been made... Seems to be a fair number of issues in there ....Residents and neighbors ....They have to go knock on all the doors, don't they? Kubby/Within a certain distance .... Prime place... there would have to be tons of community warnings .... Norton/I was curious if they will tell us which areas .... Atkins/Lisa is to be here tomorrow night .... (All talking). Norton/I was just curious how many they are going to try to deal with at once .... It is not as easy as it may seem on paper. Kubby/ Norton/Everybody is going to be watching .... I think we ought to get clear about it. I would like to have a count if we can get one .... Kubby/Wouldn't we want to do that after the first round? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 7 Norton/I just thought they are going on data from a year ago .... We will ask tomorrow night .... O'Donnell/...35 accidents so far this year ....$36,000 worth of damage .... Norton/...I am just curious about how many we are going to try to deal with at once .... 3. AGENDA ITEM #17 - PROCEEDINGS TO TAKE ADDITIONAL ACTION FOR THE AUTHORIZATION AND ISSUANCE OF NOT TO EXCEED $700,000 GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS. Kubby/I need a brief reminder about what is entailed with the second floor of the Police Station. Atkins/The second floor already exists .... We are going to take most of the detectives... offices .... Substantially... offices .... Kubby/What will be freed up? Arkins/Generally more space .... Vanderhoef/ Kubby/ Lehman/The action tomorrow night on the bonds is enabling legislation. It really doesn't approve any single one of these projects .... Like the police second floor, when that comes to us, I am sure there will be a lot of detail .... I guess if we are conceptually unhappy with some of these ..... We are to approving any single one of these projects. Kubby/...we do create a momentum .... Yucuis/I agree with you Ernie... I would recommend that you approve them at the authorization level as they are... come back to you with the projects .... I don't anticipate selling bonds until March .... I want to make sure that it doesn't affect the resolution authorization by pulling something out .... Kubby/ Champion/You would like us to approve them .... Norton/We are going to have a p.h .... people... are going to want some level of detail .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 8 Atkins/We are meeting the architects on Friday for both of those projects. We will have the details, we should have it back to you very shortly. Norton/Do we have a break down of all the projects... a ~ner breakdown of that $9 million of water revenue? Yucuis/The majority of that project is the balance due on the Willow Creek Tnmk Sewer. Lehman/Some of these projects are currently in progress .... Norton/ Yucuis/We are in progress... site development... the dam .... We would hope that would be a winter project .... We will have detail for you tomorrow night. Vanderhoef/Do you have a break down .... What is the breakdown on the computers in the ICN room and that? Yucuis/The ICN room is the city's portion of that cost. It does not reflect the cost that the state will pay on that project. It is just the city's portion .... $68,000. VanderhoefJ Yucuis/ Norton/And those things are portable, I take it? Vanderhoef/And will connect up .... AGENDA ITEM #4 Consent Calendar - CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING THE AMENDED FY99 ANNUAL ACTION PLAN BUDGET WHICH IS A PART OF THE CONSOLIDATED PLAN AS MANDATED BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT. Vanderhoef/I was just looking at the Consent Calendar .... On the updating of the Consolidating Plan... curious about the additional $25,000 for the Crisis Center that we have already budgeted .... I just wondered... where else they had looked for additional moneys to complete the purchase of that building? Could we get a little more information on that, please. Thank you. [See Review Agenda Items Con't] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 9 Local Option Sales Tax 98-126 S1 Atkins/I have given you the ballot propositions as I understand them to be. Lehman/We discussed this at length... percentages always seem to come out the same... concerned about the wording... Are we comfortable with the percentages? Kubby/Yeah. Lehman/The only thing... verbiage on the ballot. Norton/I got three suggestions for changes. One of them is in the third item where it says "such as streets, bridges, parks, sewers ...."I would prefer to say "other area jurisdictions." Thornberry/I am not going to go for the new one at this point. I want to go with the current .... Atkins/The current one is what you have right now .... This is where you are... Norton/So you don't feel there should be anything about collaborative projects in that. Kubby/Not in the ballot language, it locks us in. Lehman/The word or does not lock us into anything. Dilkes/Not if you use such as language .... Such as streets, bridges, parks, sewers .... And collaborative projects with other areas .... Norton/ Champion/ Norton/So list these things and add the words or collaborative projects with other jurisdictions .... Thornberry/ Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/Are we interested in putting the words other collaborative projects without making it mandatory? .... Making it a such aS. I think that is what we are saying we would like to do .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 10 Dilkes/I think we can do that. Atkins/Did you just decide something? Thomberry/...you could say and/or .... Lehman/...intent... to be cooperative with other jurisdictions .... Thornberry/When the need exists. Norton/...politically speaking it seems to be wise to open ourselves to that possibility. O'Donnell/And it is not locking us into anything. Champion/Dean had said... such as .... (All talking). Champion/I am suggesting that we add that. Kubby/We need to be sure what we just added. Atkins/I am not sure what you have added. Kubby/ Norton/I was proposing to include the words at the end of that sentence or collaborative projects with other area jurisdictions... Champion/ (All talking). O'Donnell/Connie wants to remove and/or and put such as. Dilkes/There already is a such as in that language. Champion/ Lehman/ Kubby/As long as there is not an expectation out there that every year... that it will be every year .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 11 Dilkes/You can use your policy statement .... Atkins/Have you settled on that language? .... Kubby/We are using the language from the community groups except we are changing the and/or to or. O'Donnell/I thought we were changing it to such as. Vanderhoeff It is already in here. (All talking). Kubby/Taking the wording from the proposed changes to the ballot and making changes to that .... Vanderhoef/I don't like that .... Thornberry/ ....I don't see such as .... Norton/Let me try ..... and for other capital improvements such as .... Public buildings or collaborative projects with other area jurisdictions. Lehman/May I suggest... if we agree with the projects that are listed including other collaborative projects with other jurisdictions, let's let the Legal Department write .... Kubby/Dee Vanderhoef... she wants capital improvement to be the first words .... Norton/The way it is in the present one .... Vanderhoef/ Dilkes/I think there is another distinction .... Their language, I think it can be interpreted... that you will do the library, you will do the community center and you might do one or more of those other capital improvements. The language in the one that you last ended up with doesn't necessarily say that same thing .....I think they language they proposed at the beginning is better. (All talking). Atkins/We are adding collaborative and we are adding such as. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 12 Kubby/No, we are switching back to the community group's language and changing the last phrase .... Dilkes/"For renovating and expanding the public library, for constructing a community events center and for other capital improvements such as streets, bridges, parks, sewers, public buildings and collaborative projects with other area jurisdictions." Kubby/ Dilkes/I think it is still a list of examples. Thornberry/ O'Donnell/ Kubby/I have a question about money. What part of the 40% will be used renovating and expanding and constructing the public library and the community events center? Atkins/In theory you could use all 40%.. In practice, you do not need all 40% to do both projects. Kubby/Do you know what percent we do need for a 20 year bond? Atkins/It was about 35% .... Other debt .... Norton/ Arkins/ Kubby/...so the first 20 years there is 5%- Arkins/90% of the 40% would be used to pay for the events center and the library .... Lehman/ .... flexibility .... If this passes... talking about 98 taxes... We don't know the costs for a project like this .... Kubby/..there is some left over .... Arkins/Before you leave that one .... I was given a note from the JCCOG Regional Trails Bicycling Committee .... Transportation Technical Advisory Committee and they have asked that the word trails be added to the 40%. Kubby/I think that is fine .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 13 (All talking). Norton/I think trail is a public thoroughfare... Thornberry/...add trails, not a problem .... Kubby/This is a forever tax the way we have it set up .... When that 20 years of bonds are gone .... Atkins/So the first two items are out of the way. Norton/Other change... in the next to last item regarding hiring and equipping police officers ....Strikes me it would be wise to say hiring and equipping public safety personnel ..... Champion/I think you need to state police officers and firefighters... O'Donnell/I think it is important that it is there .... Vanderhoef/ Lehman/I don't think anybody objects to other public safety personnel being included. Kubby/Would that term include... internal safety folks... ? Atkins/Occupational safety... I wouldn't think so. Thornberry/Is the dog a police officer? Atkins/Yes. Norton/I think... better off to leave transit open .... Kubby/So what new services are people going to get with the sales tax? .... Vanderhoef/It just says there is more flexibility ....I would be with Dee on this ....Did not want to include that specifically .... Norton/...choose that it would go into special fares .... Vanderhoef/...we do not collect the full fare ....On the average ....Not do a blanket fare cut. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 14 Kubby/ .... It is about increasing ridership in the system .... Political piece... who want to do the library... hate this kind of tax and are looking for something... reducing fares .... The other language guarantees that there is something new that will happen .... Champion/...I think the shuttle... example... successful. Thornberry/Connie, who are we taking on that flee shuttle?... college students .... Are we taking the place of the University's transit system ....? We are doing what Cambus is doing to other parts of town .... Champion/Who are the taxpayers? Thomberry/People who are tiding the flee shuttle bus are students .... They are tiding the city bus free and they are students .... Lehman/...The discussion here .... 10% we are allocating to transportation .... O'Donnell/Have to tell what you are spending the money for .... I think it has to be stated clearly... appealing... Vanderhoef/Joe .... Fares .... He said it was interesting... lowering rates that was not one of the things that anyone has mentioned .... What I am trying to say is fee reduction is just one piece of the whole puzzle of transit... To lock in a fare .... Locking in future councils for a very long time .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-126 SIDE 1 Vanderhoef/ Champion/When you raised your bus fares, it reduced your ridership by quite a substantial number. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/...some of that has not come back... I still think we can do lots of things .... Norton/... say targeted fare reduction .... Kubby/People don't complain about wanting lower fares .... Don't expect ....It is a combination of service and cost. Thornberry/It doesn't support itself now .... I don't see reducing it .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 15 Norton/I would rather consider enhancing .... Lehman/We don't know... looking at proposed routes... I don't think we are in a position right now .... Going to put 10% towards transit to make it nicer .... Kubby/Our policy statement... I don't know that the policy statement says anything about enhanced service, reduced fares, reduced routes .... Norton/...we are already in debt... O 'Donnell/We are going to enhance it with the proceeds of a sales tax... Kubby/There is no guarantee of that either .... Norton/...put the word increased in each of these .... Vanderhoef/...got to have a baseline of where you are .... Thornberry/Are there four people who want to see in the ballot language reduced fares? Kubby/Yes. Lehman/...We spend $1/2 million a year for SEATS .... We also have a transit tax... I agree with Karen and Mike and Connie that we have got to show... got to give them something concrete .... Thornberry/...how far are you going to reduce it? ..... Vanderhoef/I would like to use enhance in there .... Lowering is too difficult to handle... To support and enhance the operating and capital expenses for the public transit and para-transit .... O'Donnell/ Vanderhoef/Enhancement is adding routes .... Lehman/... 10% to transit ....Minimum of ½ of that 10% for increased expenditures for transit .... Norton/ ....public safety .... Thornberry/...You could say 5% of that goes directly to public transit .... Lehman/5% increase. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 16 Vanderhoef/...You got to have a base number that says where you are starting from .... Part of this whole thing was to put some relief on the General Fund and make sure that money was targeted for the things we wanted .... Police, fire... Norton/...put those things in the policy statement and leave this open ....Same issue comes up with human services .... Dilkes/I have real difficulty with the word increased .... Because I don't know increased from what... Secondly... the language proposed by the group on fare reduction .... Says... "include fare reduction ....and enhanced service".... which is a different thing than putting or in there .... Thornberry/I agree with Dee Norton .... To support the operating and capital expenses for public transit and para-transit .... put the other language in the policy statement. Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Thornberry/ Lehman/ Thornberry/In the ballot language, leave it the way it is. Kubby/I think that is a big policy mistake .... Norton/How do you answer the thing about doing the same thing in the public safety category? Kubby/ Norton/ Kubby/It is not talking to the same kind of constituency. Norton/But there is a constituency that want more police, right? .... Vanderhoef/ Kubby/Our issue here is to talk about the policy of it... Ask out attorney to find language that is clear... defensible .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 17 Lehman/ Thornberry/There is three for ballot and three for non-ballot .... Champion/What if we said To support the operating and capital improvement expenses of public transit and para-transit and other community transportation purposes such as fare reduction and enhanced service. Thomberry/That would be in the policy statement. Norton/ Champion/...I somehow would like to keep it in the ballot proposition .... I don't think people are going to read the policy statement. Kubby/Having such as in there... false expectations... Those are possibilities .... They are going to feel lied to. Champion/ ....what happens then in five years when we have to raise the bus fare to $.75? .... Thornberry/ ....this ballot proposal is a sales tax in perpetuity .... Champion/People keep talking about this sale tax forever, forever and ever... That is not true that you cannot change it at all .... Lehman/ Atkins/If you go back and it were to fail... You can, after those bonds are retired... Kubby/ Lehman/We mentioned the words such as... problem I have with reduction of fares... cost of buses have gone up... reduced from what to what? .... So you reduce the fares for six months... or a year .... All you got to do is raise the fares again .... I have a problem with that .... We raise the fare and the public said hey look you said you were going to reduce the fare .... Norton/ Lehman/The one way we could do it .... Could put such as .... Kubby/...that I putting false hopes out ....That would end up feeling like trickery .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 18 Norton/I think we better leave it simple the way it is .... Thornberry/...I don't want to guarantee it in the ballot proposal .... Kubby/I would rather mandate it. Lehman/All fight. How many favor leaving it the way it is? That is four, you got it. Kubby/I had another possible change for that section. That is and other lawful community transportation purposes .... It could mean roads... I want to lock this into public transportation .... And think we should put... Norton/ Kubby/We should delete that to guarantee that that money is for public transportation .... Lehman/Bus stop, shelter... Kubby/ (All talking). Atkins/What are we dropping? Lehman/Is and other lawful community transportation purposes. Champion/My problem... we talked about freeing up this money in the General Fund... The problem with taking out fare reduction and enhanced services... might not be any improvements to public transit... I don't like that. Norton/Same thing with public safety... human services .... None of these are a promise that it is additional. Kubby/Political question .... Norton/ Vanderhoef/There are two points... property tax relief.... Unforeseen new need .... That we cannot categofize into a ballot proposition .... Norton/I had pointed out... you could play all kinds of games here .... Property tax relief.... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 19 Vanderhoef/...which ones gives the public the best look of what we are doing .... Straight out property tax relief versus- Thornberry/ Kubby/ Vanderhoef/...what we need to do in the policy statement... be very clear that there is some relief in the General Fund .... Thomberry/You don't have to show relief to the General Fund. You can show enhanced services ..... Vanderhoef/Spelled out in the policy. Lehman/The policy language and ballot language are not necessarily have to be on the same .... We have done what we are going to do with public transit? Champion/ Lehman/And the police officers .... 10% for the operating expenses for the library .... Is there any changes we want to make to that? Norton/ Dilkes/I just want to make sure. I am not sure what related means... Do the community activities have to relate to the library and community events center? ....the related needs to come out. Kubby/ Dilkes/ Norton/And other community activities... (All talking). Kubby/It meant cultural activities .... Champion/Why couldn't be used for activities that are physical? .... (All talking). Norton/I think this was intended to support the library and the event center .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 20 Vanderhoef/I had asked for that particular thing to be added because I was thinking in terms of the dollars that we had been talking about in our fund for Arts Fest, Jazz Fest .... Those kinds of activities .... Thornberry/ Kubby/I think cultural is more defined than related. Thornberry/ Vanderhoef/ ....how about using .... Community celebrations. Norton/...related community activities is not bad ..... let's go with it. Dilkes/When I read .... It is unclear to me whether the community activities... have to be related to the library and the community events center .... Kubby/ Thornberry/ Kubby/This is going to be a natural place for all the activities .... Dilkes/It creates an issue, is that related? Thornberry/ Kubby/I don't see that money going to soccer fields .... Atkins/That is covered in the 40% .... Kubby/...soccer... not cultural... Lehman/Why don't we put and other communities activities .... I could see Eleanor's point... use the word other rather than related .... (All talking). Lehman/I think we can live with that. Thornberry/...within the policy statement .... Norton/...saying other community activities .... All right, let's go with it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 21 Vanderhoef/One more possibility... other special community activities ..... Lehman/ Kubby/We are so worded... about binding future councils .... Norton/ Lehman/How about water rate stabilization? Are we happy with that? Vanderhoef/Yes. Arkins/ Lehman/We said we were all fight .... Atkins/...I think it should be relief.... (All talking). Thornberry/ .... if it is going to be water rate relief, I am going to look at my water bill and say where is my relief.... What it is doing is stabilizing that rate so the increase does not occur .... Champion/It could relieve the water bill... We are going to get more money than we planned .... Thornberry/...cost of operation... up ....I am arguing for stabilization to keep them for going up. Kubby/ Atkins/ Norton/ Arkins/I could legitimately go either way on the issue. I just think by using the term relief we are taking money, we are putting it directly into the water tim&..relieving the pressures with respect to increases in rates ....Relieve those rate8 .... (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 22 Lehman/Are we going to stabilize or relieve? (All talking). Lehman/...at the end of eight years... does stabilization mean you can lower rates? Atkins/I personally believe you could do with either language .... (All talking). Thornberry/The new water plant is going to cost more to operate. Atkins/The bottom line is that the money from the sales tax will be credited directly to the water fund and in doing that it will have an effect on the operations and payment of debt .... Stabilize rates... relief.... Within reasonable projections .... Thomberry/ Kubby/...we know there will be regulations coming down. O'Donnell/Were we not talking freezing the water rates for eight years? Atkins/Yes ....I don't think you can guarantee that. Lehman/Can we say stabilization and/or relief?. Atkins/Yeah but I think I would just pick one of the words. Lehman/...we got two stabilizes .... three ....All fight, stabilize Steve, we got that. Champion/What happens if we have enough money to lower the water rates? ..... Lehman/We can lower it, Connie. (All talking). Lehman/Water is over. Kubby/I want to hear it from Eleanor .... If we say stabilization and we can reduce rates, can we do that with that language? Dilkes/I think using both makes more sense. Lehman/How many want to have stabilized relief. .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 23 (All talking). Thornberry/Do what now? Lehman/Have stabilization/relief- use both words. Okay, we did it that way. Norton/Stabilization/relief.... Dilkes/And/or (All talking). Lehman/We have 5% funding for human service agencies. Do we want to leave that the way it is? ..... O'Donnell/That is one we ought to leave alone .... Lehman/ Kubby/Our policy statement has it as half and half.... New funding... relieving CDBG moneys first .... Lehman/Is that all fight for everybody? [Council Break] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 24 Uniform Building Codes 98-126 S1 Boothroy/Tomorrow night public discussion of six different codes. This is something we do every two years .... These are the 1997 additions of the Uniform Building, Fire, Plumbing, Dangerous Building, Mechanical .... New one... Building Conservation Code .... Board of Appeals has been reviewing these codes over the last few months ....Unanimous recommendation for their adoption .... Tim Hennes' memo... outlined the high points of these changes .... A number of these changes to the Uniform Code actually increased the amount of flexibility and are based on practices in the field .... Roof sheeting one .... Windows... makes a lot of sense... One with light is a new one .... Natural light requirement is no longer mandatory .... Other rooms in the house, not going to be looking at that requirement... Then there was allowing some exiting... Also have one where we allow exterior remodeling .... Don't trip in the requirement for smoke detectors .... Help out the construction community. There are a couple of issues .... We have members of the Board of Appeals here .... Tim Hennes is here .... To address those .... One of the issues that was not resolved with the Homebuilder's Association is the reinforcing steel in concrete foundation walls .... Board of Appeals has spent a long time looking at this .... The Board did not come up with any new conclusion... this particular standard is the best standard .... You are going to hear tomorrow night that this standard is still too strict .... Bob is here .... Norton/Is there any .... talk to an engineer about whether the right variables were in the hopper but I didn't see the follow up to that .... Somebody said the charts are okay but they are derived from a wrong set... missing variables... Bob Carlson/That was the original discussion. The Homebuilder's Association was going to provide information .... So the engineer could insert those in the formula. They never did give that in writing .... There is now a new argument that says this whole concept isn't the right idea, let's use a different engineering concept .... 2000 Code is 90% written .... I actually talked to the engineers .... In Washington D.C .... It will increase the cost of the foundation for the rest of the houses... It will increase the amount of reinforcing in a standard basement but it decrease the amount of reinforcing in the walk out basement .... Most basements are not walk outs .... It is also the code... put in front of us in three years .... In our code for a standard basement right now is the State Building Code .... Kubby/If we wanted to... we could not adopt that section .... Decide that in three years. Thornberry/ .... You mean we can take the U. S. Building Code and make it less restrictive? Carlson/Yes .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 25 Boothroy/ Thornberry/Do we have stricter building codes in Iowa City than the state calls for? Carlson/Yes, in some instances .... For walk out basements, we have adopted a stricter standard than the state. Thornberry/ Carlson/Board of Appeals... when we voted unanimously to approve this .... Also says that we will .... Sit down and go through the foundation again... We can amend these anytime we want to .... Kubby/ Norton/ Thornberry/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-126 SIDE 2 Carlson/No .... The table that we are adopting for walk out foundations is based off the Building Code. The state adopts a lower standard. So we are somewhere in between what the Building Code itself does and what the state does .... An engineer... all three of them have come up with essentially the same answer... This is the '97 Code .... We have taken longer adopting this set of codes... We have had more input... a lot of public hearings on this. Norton/...I want to ask where you did relax from the UBC requirement .... Not suppose to be a deck or a porch over an egress window. Staff recommended 7 feet, committee went along with 5 feet .... UBC wanted nothing .... Thomberry/ Norton/In principle they say not over an egress window .... Carlson/A door has to exit into a public way. A public way has to have clearances for an exit way and an exit way has to have 7 foot ceilings .... Norton/...question of replacing windows where you don't need a building permit .... When have to not change them? .... What amounts to putting a new window into an old opening... How much can you do? .... casements on an older house? .... In This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 26 a historic district where you have got double hung... They could do so and nobody would ever know because they didn't have to get a permit, right? Carlson/As far as window change outs... that is correct. Norton/This would be a loophole in historic preservation .... Could butcher a historic district house .... Carlson/It is all triggered by the building permit Norton/And there is no permit required .... Window one .... Maybe some special consideration needs to be incorporated to allow for this change to go through historic preservation. Carlson/That is a good point. Norton/...when you change out windows, do you literally not move anything? .... Boothroy/Tim Hennes is our acting Senior Building Inspector .... Tim Hennes/I think as long as you increase the size of the windows down and not in width, you would not increase the header size, so it would not be a structural alteration and not require a permit. But once you increase that header size ....You brought up a good point as far as the historic district .... Norton/ Kubby/How does it work now... historic district .... Sheeting... have to stop in process .... They are kind of without a roof... their process is stopped for awhile? Hennes/ .... every time they get started we go out and put a stop work order on because they don't have a permit because they are putting on new sheathing .... Once as permit is required because they are putting on new sheathing, it kicks in historic ...more time consuming for the applicant... Once they start putting the sheathing on in the historic district on a s.f, it requires a permit. Thornberry/ Hennes/That is why 50% was used .... Norton/The window one, I take it someone will kind of fix that one so that there is some out for the historic people. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 27 Boothroy/We will have it by the time you have first consideration .... It is just a public discussion tomorrow night. Kubby/I had a question about item f., second page of Tim's memo... smoke detectors. Is that true for owner occupied as well as rental? Hennes/Single family and duplexes. Kubby/Sprinkler system change from the 9 to the 16 .... I would like to hear some justification. Norton/Also clarification. Kubby/Not about the floors .... Norton/ Carlson/ .... There was a long discussion... what is the right number. There is no magic to 9 and there is no magic to 16 .... Norton/Is it both or all? Is it 3 floors or 16 units or both7...Could you have 8 on top of 82 Hennes/It is 3 floors. Carlson/If it is 3 floors, it is sprinklers .... Norton/And 16 units? .... Hennes/Sprinkling is to required until you get to 17 dwelling units .... Champion/What if you have 17 on one floor? Hennes/It is sprinkling .... (All talking). Henries/It was amended down to 9 in past code adoptions .... Vanderhoef/What is the rational for sprinkler on one story where there is lots of egress? Hennes/It used to read 2 stories... and by putting 3 levels of residency occupancies... It eliminated the construction ofberms .... People would build the 12 units... berm the earth up .... To make it a two story building... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 28 Vanderhoef/Why do we have to have sprinkler systems on a one story building... with multiple egresses? Hennes/I just think it is the number of dwelling units... Vanderhoef/...I think about it... as far as egress .... When you are in a 3 story... the hazard is higher... I don't see where that hazard is that high on a single story building. Hennes/I would tend to agree with you... probably don't see any one story 16-17 units .... Vanderhoef/In nursing home kind so things... Hennes/ Thomberry/I have got four units which is called the lower level... on 2"'~ floor... Since there are four .... You have got to have an elevator .... But the first thing to go out in a fire is the electricity which makes the elevator inoperable... It is crazy .... Hennes/That is a federal requirement .... It is not something that is optional .... Kubby/I have a question about the Building Conservation Code .... I wanted more detail about that .... encourage continued use of buildings... Hennes/Right now in the plan review we have existing buildings used for a business occupancy .... We will get an application for a building permit to change it to a restaurant... a different use .... Help us in our plan review... charts in there... life safety .... Gives us some better guidelines. Kubby/To say this is an appropriate re-use .... Hennes/Yes .... Thomberry/Double edge sword when we make these regulations more flexible .... Hennes/This gives us a little bit more in black and white .... Thomberry/On all of the building codes .... Making it more flexible .... So that we can accommodate... interpret it your way .... You can interpret it in two ways .... Kubby/50% is pretty clear, 5 feet, 3 feet, 12 feet. All of that is pretty clear .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 29 O'Donnell/I still have a problem with your sprinkler systems that is needed in 16 units and over ...... And we don't have any reasoning for coming up with 16 units. Carlson/16 is the national ....We talked about 12 .... 13... I spent a lot of time talking to the Fire Department ....Building Conservation Code... has all of the charts and tables for all of the old materials... It tells you equivalencies .... Thornberry/ Norton/ .... Did you straighten out the reciprocity thing for plumbers? .... work in Cedar Rapids and Iowa City without jumping through two hoops? Hennes/I will introduce Bemie Oswald .... Bernie Oswald/Reciprocity .... We have gone to a standardized exam service out of Florida .... Most of the jurisdictions in the state .... Have gone to the same test... We all recognize the same test .... All gone to the Block and Associates exam service out of Florida for plumbing and electrical exams .... Norton/How about mechanical? Oswald/...there has been discussion back and forth .... There are several cities that have gone to a mechanical licensing and examination .... Lehman/What you are saying is we do have reciprocity between us and Cedar Rapids? Oswald/That is correct. Lehman/ Oswald/If you have taken the Block and Associates examination. Lehman/You would not test again .... Oswald/The Block and Associates exam is recognized in several parts of the country .... Kubby/What is the rational for shortening the length of experienced for a journeyman? Oswald/Several considerations... Block and Associates exam is very difficult .... A few years ago the experience requirement for electrical was lessened .... Plumbing remained at four... meet at four .... Vanderhoef/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 30 Oswald/ .... before it was four years as an apprentice .... Then one year as a journeyman .... It will go to three years as an apprentice .... Then two years as a journeyman to take the master .... Felt that added time and experience was needed .... Vanderhoef/Tell me about the gas type firing .... What kind of standards and who tests them and who teaches them? .... Oswald/If this goes through the city council... Next Board of Appeals meeting we will be discussing which examination would be appropriate .... Gas pipe installation .... Vanderhoef/...administered locally? Oswald/ .... We currently... Block and Associates... we provide the applications to whoever .... Then they directly apply to Block and Associates... are given somewhere within the state every month... In Iowa City, four times a year .... Proctored examinations .... Vanderhoef/ Oswald/ .... giving them a time period for gas pipe installers .... Giving them a year to take the exam. Lehman/ Vanderhoef/ Lehman/I think that is a good one. Norton/...under the fire ones... amendment to the Fire Code... talked about the Board of Appeals .... Carlson/The Board of Appeals isn't in the National Fire Code .... We added in there .... Norton/ Lehman/ Boothroy/There may be one other issue brought up tomorrow night .... About addition of one hour rating to multi-family structures .... One individual... Bruce Glasgow has concem about that particular standard being applied .... What you see... clarification... over the years we have gone more and more from brick exterior constructions for multi-family structures to vinyl siding and it makes the need for having that one hour protection much more than it use to be .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 31 Champion/ Boothroy/Exterior .... Walls. Carlson/It has been in the code... been ignored... enforce the code as written or modify the code... It is being enforced in other areas .... I can't see any justification why Iowa City .... We don't need an exterior wall when all around in the rest of the country ... We do enforce it on commercial buildings... It is in the state and national. Thomberry/If you were in Des Moines and you got the state code book for building, would you need a supplemental to refer to in Des Moines? .... You have several books that pertain just to Iowa City. Do other cities have the same thing? Hennes/Des Moines had for the '94 had amendments. I haven't talked to the building official in Des Moines to see if they adopted changes in the '97 ....I can't imagine they didn't adopt changes .... Thomberry/If you had one book to go to... Why would you need supplemental books. Hennes/One of the things you know is most of the large cities in the State of Iowa use the same codes .... Playing field is relatively equal... all using essentially the same code .... There are local amendments .... The Code is hundreds of pages... applied across the country... When we go to the International Building Code .... That will be a national code clear across the country ....Every jurisdiction is going to have a provincial look at that .... Kubby/We like home rule... We like local control .... Lehman/If you were to compare the rules and regulations in Iowa City to those in Cedar Rapids, Des Moines... other major cities in Iowa, would you judge them to be essentially the same? Henries/Yes... fee structures might be a little bit different but the Codes are basically the same .... local amendments... a very small portion of the Code and that is true in every jurisdiction. Lehman/Thank you .... [See PCRB Discussion after 28E Plat Review Discussion] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 32 28E Plat Review 98-126 S2 Lehman/Let's go to this 28E Agreement quickly. Davidson/In our last episode of this, Dean and Mike were going to have conversations with representatives with the City of Coralville. I also have had conversations... Karin and I have had several conversations individual with about all of you... Dean and Mike, anything to report? O'Donnell/I spoke to Henry and Jim and Kelly. They don't have any problem with the boundary being at Dubuque Street as long as our review is with urban standards .... On new construction. Franklin/I don't know what exactly what their urban standards are .... What that means as far as urban design standards for the City of Coralville, I am not sure. For us what it means is concrete streets, 28 feet, curb and gutter, sewer and water lines in and packed. Kubby/This is outside our growth area, right? Franklin/This is outside our growth area. Kubby/ ....don't require... that amount of infrastructure .... Thomberry/Coralville... they ...don't require those standards. Kubby/Does Coralville require those standards outside their growth area? .... So why would they want to have people over-build? Thomberry/ Norton/Their objections set forth in that area... RS-3... try to keep the thing not too heavily developed .... Vanderhoef/I have just a couple of questions about the whole process .... What is our intent when we say we want to go with Dubuque Street? Are we looking at this as a possibility for a growth area? We have not had that conversation since I have been on council ..... Is this a question that we need to have some information about? ....I would like some. Secondly ....What standards are we using is we have split jurisdictions on these things? ....I would like to have information on .... What I would like is some information .... Whether this council is even interested in talking about if we were ever to consider the east side of Dubuque Street as a growth area for Iowa City .... Thornberry/Ever is a long time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 33 Vanderhoef/This decision right now may set that tone... Kubby/Although our growth areas are based up on watersheds and sewers .... Vanderhoef/And we are also into using lift stations north of 1-80 .... I would like to talk about it ..... Then see whether this is a policy kind of thing that we have .... Thornberry/I am not ready to set never-ever. Vanderhoef/ Thomberry/So I don't know. Norton/I don't see any point in the near future of considering expanding our growth area into this hard to service area. But I am interested in RS-3 there .... Vision statement .... Was to keep some kind of lower density as you get out... not heavily urbanized all the way to Cedar Rapids .... RS-3 ... to keep that from being quite so heavily developed ..... reducing the density out there. Vanderhoef/This is the conversation I would like to go through .... Noaon/Keep a definable edge to this city. Franklin/...right now we do not have an agreement with the City of Coralville. So any subdivision that comes in will be reviewed in terms of the municipality that it is closest to... With the Barrington Heights annexation (refers to map)...line which is equal distance is going to come somewhere in here and go across the river .... Without the agreement, Coralville is going to review at least the northerly poaion of this Dubuque to Iowa River area plus some area on the east side of the river... What you may wish to do .... Go ahead and approve this agreement .... With Coralville's review over to here .... So at least it is west of the river. Have your discussion about the growth area and make a decision as to how you want to set policy for this particular area here .... Policy that you set in relationship to River Heights... When you made a decision... adopted the Comprehensive Plan that had our growth area north of the interstate, we had a very short discussion about why the growth area was noah of the interstate... Had to do with how far you could service and the economics of it .... If you are looking at going across the river, there is some costs to that .... If you are going to consider River Heights for possible... part of Iowa City... that means that you can't annex a large portion north of the interstate that you show in the growth area now .... You don't have the capacity in the Iowa River Corridor trunk line unless you are willing to invest in an upgrade of that .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 34 Davidson/If you were do what Karin just indicated... nothing that keeps you from eventually extending the growth area... annexing that part that is on Coralville's side .... Each of you annexed areas that was in the other one' s area of review .... Norton/...how will that control the density of that region? ....violate my notion of a visible edge on that side of town. Franklin/That is something you may want to talk about in terms of where that visible edge is going to be if in fact the City of Coralville is fight to Dubuque Street .... (Refers to map) .... Davidson/Remember the Barrington Heights Subdivision is proposed at urban density .... Coralville sewer and water .... Urban density .... That is clear up the hill .... Thornberry/If you are driving up from Iowa City noah .... Vanderhoef/Tell me what happens if we stay with joint review and we have different urban standards or we stay with rural for the time being and they have urban standards? How do we resolve it? .... Franklin/First of all you wouldn't be staying with joint review because you don't have joint review fight now. What you have fight now... subdivision .... If it is closer to Coralville, it is reviewed by Coralville and the county .... To get joint review, both municipalities would have to agree to that .... As part of that agreement, I think you would need to resolve what the density is going to be and what the standards is going to be .... Thornberry/ Lehman/If Coralville currently has... review in areas closer to them... Why would they be interested in giving joint review or giving Iowa City review?... Davidson/I am not certain that it was until this week Kelly Hayworth asked me the question .... I explained under state law .... Whoever is closest. I think that was a revelation to him. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-127 SIDE 1 Davidson/ Lehman/It seems to me, that if they choose to give us the fight of review, they may. And if they choose not to, they don't have to. Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 35 Franklin/I think that is what you all have to decide is how critical this little patch to you, how concemed you are as to whether it is reviewed by Coralville or in the City of Coralville .... If it makes a big difference to you then maybe what you should be doing is having conversations with the property owner to try to get them to annex to Iowa City .... You can't serve them. Norton/We can't control the zoning. O'Donnell/If Coralville wanted to do this, they could. Norton/We can't control the zoning without annexing. Thomberry/...concerned... the Coralville sprawl .... Kubby/They are being real aggressive right now. Norton/ Thornberry/That is why Tiffin did what they did, annexing all the way out as far as they could .... Lehman/So what do we want to do. Thornberry/I am just afraid of Coralville sprawling all around Iowa City .... Kubby/Maybe the point... is about the standards .... That we negotiate the rural standards... 0 'Donnell/ Thomberry/ Franklin/We are talking about two entities here that have to agree. Thomberry/ Vanderhoef/ Franklin/Annexation is voluntary ..... I am not sure they want to be annexed to anything. Norton/If we want to do what we are talking about, we are going to have to annex .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 36 Lehman/...bets thing we can do .... Is to try to discuss this with Coralville and try to get some sort of agreement, if they are interested, in limiting the density of that property. Norton/At least a little bit .... O 'Donnell/ Lehman/What are the options? Franklin/The options are to do nothing and have no agreement in which case the review of the subdivisions will fall to the closest municipality. To agree to the agreement as Coralville originally sent over which was their review to the river. To agree to an agreement in which you review to Dubuque Street at city design standards or some standards that you can negotiate with the City of Coralville. Thornberry/ Franklin/ Champion/...they will annex that very rapidly .... Franklin/...They need to serve that and there are certain costs to that .... Champion/ Norton/...if they review... to the river ....(refers to map) .... Vanderhoef/ Franklin/Do you want us to talk to them about some compromise on the standards? Lehman/I think we would like to see the zoning less dense. Davidson/Is this something to put on your next meeting .... school district and the county ....Opportunity to talk with you at that meeting ....Or you can do it at JCCOG .... Vanderhoef/The joint meeting is better. Norton/ Thomberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 37 (All talking). Lehman/Seem to me that the smartest thing we can do is negotiate with Coralville and see if we can get the density issue resolved. Davidson/...how would you like to do that? Thornberry/Probably not JCCOG. O'Donnell/I think just have a meeting with Coralville. Lehman/Joint County meeting with Coralville. Davidson/Joint meeting with Coralville. I suppose it is not inappropriate to have the county there .... Norton/Let's do it then .... Davidson/You could have it your first item and the school board doesn't have to show up .... Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 38 Review Agenda Items Continued 98-126 S2 5. AGENDA ITEM #29 - CONSIDER A RESOLUTION OF INTENT TO CONVEY VACATED PORTIONS OF THE DES MOINES STREET R.O.W., MADISON STREET R.O.W., AND 20 FOOT WIDE ALLEY BETWEEN PRENTISS STREET TO THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA/IOWA STATE BOARD OF REGENTS, THE REDEVELOPER OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AND OWNER OF ALL ABUTTING PROPERTIES, AND SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING ON SAID CONVEYANCE FOR DECEMBER 1, 1998. Lehman/What question do we have for Rick? Kubby/...What is the rational for the resolution to intent to convey so soon? We wanted to wait for other reasons. Fosse/I understood the question to be about value and not necessarily about timing. Is that part of it, too? Kubby/Yeah. Fosse/I do know on the timing of it, they are anxious to get building and to do that on the property .... Kubby/What does that have to do with the money? Fosse/The money issue is that we have been acquiring r.o.w. and easements for the University in recent years at no cost .... Prentiss and Des Moines Street .... I just jotted down project in the last 3- 4 years where we got r.o.w. and/or easements from them at no cost .... Kubby/So the timing issue is moot if we are going to go for no money? Fosse/Yes. Lehman/I think it is a question of faimess. Kubby/ Lehman/We have been taking from them .... Fosse/We are going to be back to them more than they will be back to us for easements and more r.o.w. on other projects .... Lehman/All right, Rick, thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 39 PCRB Standard Operating Procedures 98-126 S2 Lehman/Eleanor- Dilkes/You got the memo. I am not going to go through in detail the recommendations that we made because they are all pretty clearly stated there. I guess what I would be looking for from you is some indication of whether you are generally receptive to the suggestions that we make and if so, we need to talk about the timing of it as stated at the end of the memo. We would recommend, if you are going to make some of the changes or all of the changes that we recommend to the procedures, that there be a deferral until the 15th Of December which would allow you to consider the ordinance change that is necessary on the 1 st and then collapse on the 15th and approve the procedures. I can answer any specific questions. Kubby/I guess I liked some of them .... Not sure that I agree with others. For example, why the complainant, page 1 .... Of the guidelines. That I don't understand the complainant would not be allowed to be at the meeting where they were deciding whether or not to dismiss it because of the timing issue of jurisdiction issue. Dilkes/...We recognize the PCRB's .... concern in allowing the complainant an opportunity to comment if it looks like a dismissal is appropriate because it is untimely or because it is not against a sworn police officer. On the other hand, I think the way the PCRB had set that procedure up made it very likely that at a forum sanctioned by the PCRB, there would be open discussion about the merits of the case and I don't think that is consistent with the way they have been operating or the way they are intended to operate. Kubby/...concem is that not everyone has good written skills that may be complaining .... Is there a way to allow that verbal argument with controlling the content of the argument? .... Dilkes/I think that is one possibility... I think that would be a very difficult thing to do. Holecek/Once con~dentiality is breached, you can't put it back. The idea of allowing written material to be submitted in the form of documentation... that can back up what the timing issue was or who the officer involved is, is genuinely the type of evidence that would be looked at .... It is not an unusual thing .... Kubby/There could be some educational bias here that I am concemed about .... People who are not lawyers that are complainants .... Not determined on education or literacy .... Holecek/ .... Even if something is summarily dismissed, the Board will have the opportunity to ask for that investigation to go forward as well as the complaint process going through the informal procedure with the Police Department as well. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 40 Kubby/ Dilkes/ Holecek/The PCRB can't but if the nature of the complaint that I think involves serious allegation, I can insure you that it would be investigated. Dilkes/In fact, when this issue initially came up and I talked to Doug Russell about it, there was some .... indication that the Board wanted the complaint that appeared to be untimely sent to them before it was sent to the Police Department so that they could make a determination .... I was not at all comfortable with that .... Kubby/Where is the PCRB on that question hearing your concerns? .... We haven't really gotten anything in writing from the PCRB about what is their reaction. Dilkes/ .... We didn't confer with them when they drafted their procedures .... Our recommendation is if you plan to make changes or it is likely that you are going to, that you then send that back to the PCRB for comments. Lehman/This will be sent to them for comments? Dilkes/This assuming that you concur. Holecek/Whatever portions that you do concur with, send back to them for their comments. Thornberry/Or any changes. Lehman/Right. Norton/...are we done with the one about the decision about not to take it? Kubby/I don't know. Does anyone else have concerns about how the complainant may not be able to express themselves very well? Dilkes/I did want to say one more thing... Sometimes timing issues seem sort of like a cut and dry kind of thing .... That is not at all the case sometimes and that is why there is a real concem that in order to talk about the timing stuff, you are going to have to talk about the facts .... Number of options... If the PCRB thought a discussion of the facts or an investigation of the facts, yes, they could proceed as they normally do. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 41 Kubby/I would much rather err on the side of letting people express themselves in whatever form they felt most competent to based on literacy, education level, and personal style. If that means an additional executive session so that confidentiality isn't breached, I have, personally, no problem with that on the timing issue .... Norton/If they are told it is untimely, then they can come in an executive session and explain .... Kubby/Right, if they appear in person, it becomes an executive session or they can do it written .... Dilkes/I don't know if the complainant would be appearing in an executive session. What I am suggesting that if it appeared from the correspondence from the complainant that there were additional fact investigations or fact inquiries that needed to be made, then one of the options available to the PCRB would be to discuss that in close session. Or if they didn't think they could make a decision on the timeliness issue, they could defer it pending an investigation in accordance with their normal procedures. Norton/...You want them to be able to do it orally, right? Holecek/And I think what we are having to do here is weigh the possibility of erring on the side of the complainant not being able to express themselves in a written form against the possibility of having the officers and the facts of the case litigated in a very premature fashion when you are talking about a timing issue. And I think .... we have come down on the side of the balance being that it should err toward the officer at this premature stage because there are other forms that it can be continually pursued in by the complainant. This may not be that forum .... Kubby/I guess I would like to send this one back to the PCRB to say is there another way that the balance is a little closer than what we are talking about .... Vanderhoef/But they can go and make their complaint at the police anytime .... That is a place where they can do it verbally in privacy .... Kubby/But it negates the whole affect of why we have the PCRB .... Norton/It is not as good as going through the PCRB, I agree. Kubby/At this point I would like to get four votes to send it to PCRB to say talk about this... and recommend .... Vanderhoef/I think that will happen anyway... they will talk about any changes that we make... We will hear from them if they come up with another idea .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 42 Norton/But they want that called out specially .... Vanderhoef/ Holecek/I do want to reiterate that there are only two issues before the PCRB at this stage: Was it filed within 60 days and does it involve a swom police officer. They are very narrow issues to be decided by what type of factual discussion would occur in open session in exploring the question is why we have come down on the balancing being- Kubby/I understand the rationale .... Champion/What is your concern, Karen? Kubby/I am concemed because of education levels, literacy and leaming disabilities and styles of communication, that the written form that the complainant has who argue their case about not having their case dismissed because of timeliness .... That they aren't able to make their case articulately ....Sometimes for people the verbal option is much more effective .... Dilkes/We said in the memo we had basically identified what the competing interests were and suggested that this was one way of resolving it and do come down more in one way and not in the other and I think they should have the opportunity to suggest other possibilities. Lehman/And I would suspect they will. Kubby/So in here .... There was, in the annual report, it talked about going from 60 days to 90 days and I didn't necessarily see that here .... Dilkes/Back up here for a minute. That would be an ordinance change... Norton/...I am not sure I understand the electronic meeting thing... You can have electronic meeting as long as you- Dilkes/...This was actually an issue that did come up with the PCRB and I did talk to Doug about it and there is an Attorney General's opinion that pretty much says what we have said in there. Basically the open meetings law says that in order to have an electronic meeting, you have to make a finding that a meeting in person is unnecessary or impossible or something along those lines. The Attorney General has said that electronic meeting means when a participation electronically is necessary for a quorum, then you have got to meet that standard .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 43 Kubby/Except in one of the paragraphs it says if it is necessary for a quorum and the other one says if it is not necessary for a quorum. Dilkes/That is because one is a electronic meeting where you have to meet that standard and two, whether participation is necessary is determined by the rules of the body and they are saying they are going to allow that. Norton/One of them is an electronic meeting, the other one is electronic participation in a meeting. Dilkes/Correct. (All talking). Thomberry/I read in the paper the other day where the PCRB did not agree with the findings of the Police Department .... It named the officer. Holecek/I think the report may not have named the officer .... Thomberry/ Holecek/The complainant had the ability just as like, for instance, under Iowa Civil Rights Commission complaints. The persons who are party to it are not constrained from discussing it. Lehman/The first complaint we ever had was that way. Thornberry/I was under the impression that the PCRB was to review the Police Department's investigation and to take complaints that the people didn't necessary want to take to the Police Department. That was a pretty small purview. It wasn't all encompassing .... Seems like they would like- Lehman/Dean, we are going to discuss this, I think, at more length. I think all we are going to talk about here are the proposed revisions .... Thornberry/One of the proposed changes is to eliminate the sunset clause. Is that fight? Lehman/No, I don't think so. Holecek/There is within this information, there is one ordinance change that we are proposing and we are proposing the standard operating procedures to be amended to dovetail with that as well. There is one ordinance change that we are proposing and that is the participation of the complainant in the name clearing hearing .... Just that the SOP follows the ordinance. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 44 Vanderhoeff I have a question about keeping the con~dentiality after a complainant has identified the police officer .... Reports... with this identifying number .... Suppose to keep the person's identity secret, it seems to me then that we need to change identifying numbers ..... Holecek/...not the same number for each officer each time .... Vanderhoef/ Kubby/When we do that... if there is a perception it the community that one particular officer is rude, it doesn't mean that they get disciplined for that but that maybe they get additional training and how can we track that. Holecek/We can track that internally without creating prejudicial bias .... Kubby/Because if it is not sustained, there is still that perception and there needs to be some focus .... a trend over time... Thomberry/ Lehman/...We are able to do that intemally now .... Thomberry/It is not working too well if the article in the paper .... Norton/ Holecek/There was a blurb in the paper, Dean, that said that they were able to identify the officer through a previous report where the complainant had named the officer and the identifying numbers were the same. Vanderhoeff Dilkes/We had been concerned about the numbering anyway and that clinched it .... Kubby/I wanted to go back to the ordinance... When there is a name clearing heating and the officer goes to the heating and says whatever they said, how does the complainant ever get to respond? .... Dilkes/Well that is not contemplated in the ordinance at all. I mean the PCRB takes a complaint, does its investigation now and there is no opportunity for response by the complainant. In other words, there is no adversatial proceeding contemplated by this ordinance. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 45 Kubby/...didn't the PCRB allow previously the complainant to be at the name clearing heating? .... Dilkes/They are making that suggestion but we believe that is probably principally based on the ordinance which we believe to be defective. Kubby/ Holecek/The whole idea of name clearing hearing is to protect the due process property right of the officer. It is not to create an adversarial forum .... Kubby/If the PCRB wants that forum, then we need to add some other section or talk about that. Dilkes/It would be much more than a section. It would be a total re-write of the ordinance. Champion/I don't think we want to do that. Dilkes/There is a way that the complainant could be afforded an opportunity to respond and that would be because the PCRB has the right to interview the complainant .... Kubby/Can they disclose what is said in the name clearing hearing to the complainant in an interview? Dilkes/Yes, they can. Thomberry/Does the PCRB investigate every complaint that is given to them? Holecek/Generally they review a synopsis of the Chief of Police after the internal affairs investigation. Thomberry/That is what I thought it was supposed to be .... Karr/...clarify something... That is once the report is received .... The PCRB has levels of investigation that they could initiate or contemplate and they state that very clearly what their steps are going to be and they could be a multiple of steps... They could initiate investigation. Thornberry/ Norton/ Karr/But they can hire an independent investigation. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 46 Norton/ Kubby/...My question .... Was adding the complainants presence at the name clearing hearing just based on trying to be consistent on how it was written in the ordinance or was it because you wanted to allow that face to face response7 John Watson/(Can't hear). Karr/He may have to step to the table. John Watson/My recollection is we felt we needed to be consistent with the ordinance. That we didn't have a choice .... Kubby/It wasn't really that you wanted them to have face to face response time. Holecek/...they were trying to be true to the ordinance and we are taking it s step further saying the ordinance is effective in that manner .... Norton/Will we get a proposed ordinance change? .... Holecek/...7 - 8 words that get struck out .... Vanderhoef/What was the timeline on doing this? Dilkes/Tomorrow night you would defer approval of the standard operating procedures until December 15. Do the first reading of the ordinance on December 1 and collapse the second and third on the 15. Holecek/Hopefully that would also give you time- Give the PCRB time to review our suggested changes and report back to you as well .... Kubby/When we do that ordinance change about the name clearing heating, will we also look at the 90 versus 60 days issue? Dilkes/Well, the ordinance changes that have been- that the PCRB has made proposals about and I think staff has some recommendations and I know it sounds like there has been some discussion that you had among yourselves, will not be done at that time because I anticipate that will involve a lot of discussion. We feel the need to make this change so we can get procedures in place .... Norton/I understood... schedule a session where the council talk with PCRB about issue they raised in their annual report ....Kind of review the first year and where we are at, right? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 47 Lehman/I was suggesting- I really think council needs to evaluate where we are compared to where we thought we were going to be... We can do that, based on our conversations, then schedule a meeting with the PCRB if we wish or we may choose not to .... It would be a good time... to have a short discussion .... Our impression of the first year ....I think it would be good... very candid discussion .... Holecek/We foresee the initial ordinance change that we are proposing to remove the complainant from the name clearing hearing process and pass the SOPs as something that needs to be done fairly quickly in order to take away the defect in the ordinance. But the other things .... Lehman/This is something we need to do quickly. Holecek/And that is why we are requesting that timeline. Lehman/Right. Norton/We should digest that first before we do it in company with the PCRB. Lehman/I think so .... Dilkes/In terms of scheduling again, if we schedule the bigger discussion for the 15th, that is a little soon it seems to me. I am also concemed I don't want to get messed up with the SOPs .... (All talking). Holecek/We do find this is critical and we would like to have this addressed as soon as possible .... Lehman/ Norton/We didn't think about the workload on this committee among other things. Oh, boy. Kubby/It may be that special discussions happens at their meeting and we go to them .... Norton/If they send us an annual report, we need to respond. Lehman/After the first of the year we will set a time when we can discuss the philosophies. Do we have other questions for Sarah or Eleanor? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 48 Champion/ Lehman/...you are suggesting that this be done in a very timely fashion. Dilkes/Two sections in the ordinance that will be amended and it is basically removing the complainant ~'om the name clearing heating process. Lehman/So we are going to defer this until- Dilkes/And you will see that red line ordinance on your agenda for December 1 st, the changes and first reading. Atkins/Eleanor, John and I were just...process question. John Watson/Our next regular meeting is the 8th of December. Does that give us time to comment on the changes in order for you to consider them on the 15th? Lehman/Actually we are talking about considering them on the 1 st and 2nd and 3rd reading on- Dilkes/On the 1 st we are only considering the ordinance change removing the complainant from the name clearing hearing process. The SOPs won't be reconsidered again until the 15th. Karr/Can I make a suggestion perhaps? I think the answer to that is very dependent on how much time PCRB wishes to research and take reviewing the information. What we may wish to do is leave it at the 8th. We have got first reading anyway. If PCRB wishes to request more time, they certainly could. What that would mean is we wouldn't collapse the second reading or pass and adopt. We would just simply suggested the accelerated schedule so it matched, right? So I think we could still move ahead with the ordinance but not pass and adopt until after we got the recommendation back. Lehman/So we will defer this to the lst? Karr/No, you will defer this to the 15th because you can't pass it until the ordinance is ready. You will give first reading to the ordinance. Dilkes/The shortage track would be the 15th depending upon .... Karr/PCRB would have ample opportunity then with your scheduling also. Did that make sense? Thomberry/Either to defer or not collapse. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 49 Karr/You wouldn't collapse if you didn't have the recommendation. Lehman/All fight. Thank you, ladies .... Norton/ Vanderhoef/Oh, I have just a couple of things about the forum that is scheduled the 1st of December. I would like to request that it be on television ..... educational session .... Important... on television... will educate the entire community ..... Lehman/We could film it without televising it. Vanderhoef/ Lehman/ Kubby/There are some other reasons why the PCRB doesn't want all of their forums to be videotaped .... We could certainly videotape the educational part of it and not the forum part of it. Dilkes/I would suggest you make that request to the chair of the PCRB .... Vanderhoef/Are other people okay with that? O'Donnell/Who is going to this forum? (All talking). Vanderhoef/Something else .... The forum was not going to have legal counsel there .... I have been thinking about the importance about being real clear about what is legal and what isn't legal and educating our public and so forth. I would feel a whole lot better if legal counsel was at that forum .... Holecek/I had a discussion with Doug Russell today about that very issue .... He does note that it is a public forum where the Board is not necessarily conducting business by motion, etc. However it is still a meeting that does need to be run in a certain decorum .... Dilkes/I think we left it that we were going to talk about it and get back to Doug tomorrow .... Sometimes things come up that require a response .... Vanderhoef/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 50 Holecek/Net effect of really wanting Doug to be there is that he can't be scheduled for the 1st. So the meeting would have to be rescheduled if we were going to require him to be there .... Vanderhoef/December 1 .... I would like to see a big turnout for the public education part of this forum .... Kubby/I think it is fine .... (All talking). Lehman/ Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ Lehman/Thank you .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 51 Appointments 98-127 S1 Human Rights Commission - Jane Nelson Senior Center Commission- Confirm County appointment of Larry Pugh CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 98-127 SIDE 2 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 52 Council Time 98-127 S2 1. Kubby/I wanted to talk about the process we are going to use with Benton Street. Lehman/I have been approached by Barbie Buss .... Concerns... She felt that there were...folks in the neighborhood who are in favor of various different alignments... beneficial to the neighborhood if council would sooner rather than later give them an indication of what sort of lane configuration it was going to be .... I asked that we would have it on 15th or 16th of December... Put this on a work session ....We would take half hour and dedicate that for the neighborhood and staff input ....Council is not in a hurry ....She assured me last night it is not necessary to be there... They will schedule a meeting sometime in December .... Jeff Davidson to attend the meeting .... own neighborhood meeting and then come to our meeting in January... second work session in the month of January .... And give them some indication of what we think is the correct alignment for the road .... Norton/I am kind of confused .... I thought it was important for them to know what we were thinking .... Lehman/They don't want us to think about the configurations until they have told us the reasons why they favor a certain configuration .... Thornberry/Then we need to take it off the CIP .... Lehman/...the project has to be done .... I have no problem with letting them to make their cases... do it at a work session .... Vanderhoef/I agree... Norton/It does bring up some general issues about process which I want to talk about at some point .... The question exactly when people are going to have their input isn't always clear .... Vanderhoef/I would like them to come and make their presentation .... Norton/We need to think about that process. Vanderhoef/As long as it is understood that that is not decision making night .... Norton/ Vanderhoef/...the neighborhood to me .... Arterial... is far more expanded than the Miller Orchard .... Impacts clear out west of 2 18 .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 53 Kubby/Our job is to take those neighborhood concems in the immediate area .... Vanderhoef/If we are going to do this at a work meeting, then I think this has to be publicized... other neighborhoods be notified. Norton/ Vanderhoef/Maybe we should be having a p.h .... at a formal meeting .... Norton/ Champion/ Lehman/I would like a letter to be written to Barbie to indicate to her that we will plan on meeting with the neighbors after they have had the opportunity to have their neighborhood meeting with Jeff.... They will come... tell her why we want it on a work night rather than a formal meeting. Kubby/For this time we do it that way... Lehman/Then schedule it for the second work session in the month of January. 2. Norton/Can you report anything on Terry Trueblood? .... hospital .... Vanderhoef/Re-read it again. 3. Norton/Is there anything to be said about Ron Boose's departure? Atkins/The director of inspection and development for the City of Oak Park, Illinois .... 4. Norton/How did it take us so long to find the pot houses? .... concern... tricky... I kind of wonder where our undercover mechanisms might be? Where are they? Atkins/The ones that you read about worked just fine .... Norton/I find the whole thing distressing and I worry about how to figure out these things. (All talking). Atkins/ Kubby/A good citizen cooperation with the task force. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 54 Atkins/ 5. Norton/I thought the guys letter that suggested rumble strips at the schools was not a bad idea. Lehman/... like pavers .... O'Donnell/... they do make noise. Lehman/...double fines in school zones .... Dilkes/I would have to look at it. Thomberry/...lights that flash when children are present .... Kubby/ Vanderhoef/ Lehman/On school days .... In this town they come and go all of the time .... (All talking). Kubby/Is someone going to respond to the guy .... Lehman/I would like to see us keep that on file with the Benton Street project .... 6. Atkins/I got a call from the Chamber. The Economic Growth Committee is having a transportation forum on Wednesday morning at 7:00 AM .... 7. Vanderhoef/On Wednesday, is anyone going to go to Des Moines for the League? Norton/ 8. O'Donnell/Dee and I have a meeting tomorrow at noon with the SEATS Advisory group at the library. 9. O'Donnell/Also yesterday morning... I saw... pledge class of Phi Kappa Epsilon... bunch of guys... doing community service... fantastic .... 10. Lehman/We need to appoint two people to work with the allocation of CDBG moneys for human service agencies .... (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698 November 16, 1998 Council Work Session Page 55 Norton/Connie, it is very interesting .... Kubby/It is a lot of time .... Norton/ Lehman/ Kubby/I would like to do it .... Thornberry/I don't want to do it .... Kubby/The joint hearing... to present their goals and budgets .... Norton/Liberal and conservative .... (All talking). Kubby/I would really like to do it .... Because I am familiar with the agencies .... I go to the agency director luncheons... Norton/Connie... and let Dean and Karen split .... (All talking). Lehman/Karen and Connie .... 11. Lehman/We are going to have to .... start scheduling budget meetings in January .... We do need to get started .... Karr/Do you want to jot down some dates .... Give it to me .... That ones that are not working .... Furnish me the dates .... Adjourned: 10:20 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of November 16, 1998 WSl11698