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Home My WebLink About1999-01-11 TranscriptionJanuary 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 1 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thornberry ,Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, O'Neil, Boothroy, Mitchell, Henries, Trueblood, Moran. Tapes: 99-4, Side 2; 99-5, all; 99-6, all. Review Zoning Matters 99-4 S2 a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for January 26 on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation of approximately 61.8 acres located south of Whispering Meadows Drive from Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) to Factory Built Housing Residential (RFBH - 59.25 acres) and Low Density Multi-Family Residential (RM-12 -2.55 acres). (REZ98-0011) Franklin/The first item is to consider a motion setting a p.h. on January 26 for the rezoning for the extension of Saddlebrook... Get into more detail on the 25th. b. Public hearing on an ordinance designating 2 South Linn Street as an Iowa City Historic Landmark. Franklin/P.h. on an ordinance dedicating 2 S. Linn Street as a Iowa City Historic Landmark. This is the Harmon Building which is recommended by the Historic Preservation Commission who designated it as a historic landmark and that was supported by a preservation consultant doing an independent evaluation from the person who made the nomination. It was also supported by the State Historical Society .... The issue how the P/Z Commission and subsequently the city council would evaluate how this designation would relate to the Comp Plan, the Zoning Ordinance, Public Improvement Plans and renewal of the area. As I outlined in the memo to the P/Z Commission .... Comes down to weighing the relevant benefits of the landmark designation versus the Iowa Avenue Streetscape and the Iowa Avenue multi-purpose parking facility projects .... Determining in your minds which have greater benefits to the city. Thornberry/If it does meet the criteria but we want to eliminate that building for public purposes, the P/Z recommended denial of the proposed designation. How do you not propose the designation if it qualifies? Franklin/The P/Z Commission is to look at these other issues beside the historic issues when they are making a determination whether a property should be designated or not .... Same considerations the city council needs to make .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2 Kubby/...because it is a zoning overlay, it gives us the purview to look at larger land tlses. Thornberry/If it were a historic designation... and we wanted it for a better public purposes anyway, couldn't we just take it? Franklin/You just do not designate it. It will be inherently historic but the question is whether you are going to impose upon it landmark designation which is a local zoning classification ....It can be historic without you giving it the landmark designation. Thornberry/If it were designated already and we still wanted to do what we are doing there, could we do it anyway? Franklin/You could but not until you went through a process .... going to the Historic Preservation Commission for their evaluation of the demolition .... Whether it was · appropriate to demolition it or not. Kubby/ Norton/ Franklin/Their decision would be controlling in that the Historic Preservation Commission makes the decision about the Certificate of Appropriateness. That decision can then be appealed to the city council .... If you wish to do a project in the face of a landmark designation, you could appeal the decision at the Historic Preservation Commission to yourselves... standard would be very different .... You would have much less authority to reverse a decision of the Historic preservation Commission .... Lehman/If this were designated as a historic landmark, is that a zoning change? Franklin/Yes. Lehman/Then the letter in our packet that represents 20% of the adjoining landowners would require an extraordinary vote? Franklin/The letter in your packet... is from John McKinstry. Lehman/We have two of them. One letter... objects to the rezoning and says they represent 20% of the adjacent property owners .... Franklin/Who said that they represent 20%? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 3 Norton/I think it is the same letter. Franklin/There is a petition from .... McKinstry representing the church and there is also a letter from Mr. McKinstry but that does not represent 20%. Lehman/Okay. Franklin/The vote from P/Z was 5 to not designate and 1 to designate. c. Public hearing on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 0.2 acres located at 703 Benton Court from Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) to High Density Multi-Family Residential (RM-44). (REZ98- 0016) Franklin/P.h. on a ordinance changing the zoning designation of .2 acres located at 703 Benton Court from RS-8 to RM-44. This is the Oaknoll issue and we have a CZA... outlines that any development which would occur on this property .... Would be subject to a review which goes beyond that which would normally be done with an RM-44 designation .... What this CZA requires is that any proposal for development would go through the P/Z Commission and city council for approval. Kubby/You could still have development because of the underlying zoning. It doesn't allow us to just say no .... Franklin/There is a covenant that Oaknoll has placed in conjunction with the CZA that limits them to some extent to using it as a parking lot .... The city council should look at this question as one of rezoning this property from RS-8 to RM-44 and all that goes with that .... It is about a zoned boundary change and that parking lot is just a part of what is Oaknoll .... Need for Oaknoll to function .... Norton/Can you tell me where that zone boundary? .... Franklin/(Refers to map). There are other lots on this side of Benton Court that are owned by Oaknoll. I think all three of these are and this one is still owned by a woman. The question here is where the appropriate zoning boundary is for RM- 44. The argument that we have made as a staff is that as a general principle, one determines zoning boundaries at back lot lines. The reason for this is that as you, on a daily basis, interface with your property going in and out, what you relate to is what is across the street more than what is in your backyard and so the backyard becomes a transition area .... Hwy 6 is a logical zoning boundary line along a street but that is a different kind of street. This is a local one. Norton/How does it happen to be on the east side of Benton Court then? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January I 1, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4 Franklin/I don't know. I would have to look at that historically .... One of the things that we stressed here .... Because Oaknoll owns these other three lots, it is important to look at this as a question of the rezoning of RS-8 to RM-44 and not just be focused on the parking lot because at some time in the future, you can expect this same question to come up again for those three lots and the decision that you have here... certainly gives an indication of how the city, as a body, might address those other three lots. So if you do not think it is appropriate for the RM-44 zoning to go to that back lot line, then you shouldn't vote for this rezoning. But if you agree that it is appropriate and that is the extent to which the RM-44 should go west, then rezoning this property to RM-44 would be appropriate. Thornberry/...difference between RS-8 and RM-44 .... Franklin/RS-8 is basically s.f and duplexes. RM-44 is a multi-family and it is one of our high multi-family designations. Oaknoll is zoned that because it is a group living situation which is allowable in the RM-44 zone. Thornberry/Given that we do this, they can still keep that as a parking lot? Franklin/If you rezone it to RM-44 they may retain it as a parking lot forever ....They also will have rights then to build on this property .... Kubby/The natural flow of things could be the rest of the block could be RM-44 .... Champion/And it will be .... Norton/Over to George Street .... Sometimes a street would be a more sensible dividing line than a backyard ....If you went clear over to George Street ....Why wouldn't there be a transition zone in there? .... Franklin/That would be another way that you could handle it, too. I am not sure .... RM- 12 so you get a few multi-family next to the RS-8 .... (refers to map). Norton/It makes a softer transition .....Maybe a transition should be considered .... Franklin/This parking is not required parking for Oaknoll. It is extra parking .... Norton/ Vanderhoef/I am not sure what our requirements are when they build additional units .... Franklin/Depending upon the size of the addition, you have to provide at least for the addition. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 5 Vanderhoef/ Franklin/There is a group living or elderly housing ratio. Norton/ Kubby/Does that one lot of additional parking allow any other additional units on the other part of the Oaknoll part? Franklin/I don't believe so .... Kubby/So it wouldn't allow that to become more dense without changing any of the other lots? Franklin/I would have to check that... But I think they are maxed physically with where they could put buildings now .... But they couldn't take parking off the rest of the other part of the site. Oh, I see what you are saying. I suppose possibly. Kubby/ Franklin/I am not sure how many more units they could get there .... The economics of building just ten units would be- I would need to check that out .... (All talking). O'Donnell/Who is requesting the change? Franklin/Oaknoll .... What Oaknoll wants is to be able to have the parking on that lot. What we have told them is the only way they can have parking on that lot is to have it zoned RM-44 so the parking is the same as the zone. Thornberry/ Franklin/ Kubby/Is there any reason why they didn't come in for all the whole lot? Franklin/That was their decision .... Kubby/ Franklin/The covenant is in the packet and it basically- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 6 (All talking). Franklin/It says that said premised shall be utilized only as surface parking purposes .... No change in the use of the above described premises shall be made by CRS except upon application to the city. Kubby/ Franklin/It is more an expression of their intent. It does not... a covenant only lasts for X number of years anyway ..... It does not say for the period of that covenant of 18 years or whatever it will be a parking lot. (All talking). Franklin/It gives them the opportunity to use this property for what is allowed in the RM-44 zone with the additional review by the P/Z Commission and the city which is over and above what would be required .... Kubby/But if they complied with all the rules and regs under that zoning, wouldn't there be a legal problem saying no? Franklin/You would have to find that the placement, height and design of that structure is not compatible with the residential neighborhood. Champion/If we would vote to make this RM-44 .... They obviously have intentions for buying the rest of that property .... So that just set a precedent for when they come back in five years to have it all rezoned RM-44. Franklin/I think it makes it harder to argue not although you could say that the decision to do this rezoning at this point in time was because you wanted to allow them to have the parking lot or to use the property in the manner that they had been using it and didn't want to go any further with it... to put them on notice. Kubby/Theoretical protection. Franklin/ .... other councils could see it differently. You are never compelled to rezone property based upon an action you have taken previously... Champion/And that is the only way to allow parking on that side? Norton/ Franklin/If you direct us... put it expressly what you would like us to do instead of creative options .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 7 Norton/Leave it for tomorrow night... problems... It is higher density .... O'Donnell/It is a 60 by 150 lot. Not much is going to be done there. Norton/The other four lots... more density there. Kubby/Keep our minds open until the p.h .... Norton/ (All talking). d. Public hearing on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of 21.26 acres located on the east side of Naples Avenue from Intensive Commercial (CI-1) to Sensitive Areas Overlay Zone-Intensive Commercial (OSA-CI-1). Franklin/This is a p.h. on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of 21.26 acres, east side of Naples Avenue from CI-1 to OSACI-1 ..... Chronology on what has happened here .... Put the map up .... One of the reasons I think we are in this little snaggle right now is because of what happened with WB Development initially .... Other events .... They were annexed back in September of '95 and in November we approved the original preliminary plat and grading plan. In December of '95, the Sensitive Areas Ordinance (SAO) was adopted. Sometime during that time, Jeff Maxwell bought some property out here and began to do some construction and grading and some of that grading was not in compliance with the grading plan approved of November '95... stop work order on it. Then we had the Outlot A re- subdivided and split to create Lot 1 and Outlot A and now we have the application submitted for the Sensitive Areas Overlay rezoning for grading that was done back in '97 that was to put in utilities ....Went beyond what was approved in the grading plan .... The three areas that...A, B and C (refers to map). This is the area that we had a grading plan... that showed a retaining wall being installed here. When Jeff did the grading for this...sewer line...road. Instead of putting in the retaining wall, he graded this a little bit more than what was on the grading plan into the critical slopes. The net affect is that the grade that results is probably a better solution than that retaining wall .... To put in the retaining wall would be more destructive to this area than to leave it as it is .... He wants to .... Do grading in this area and in this one (refers to map). This one involves some critical slopes .... This ravine has some siltation in it now .... Not as pristine as this one is. We have recommended that the grading he has proposed in this area be approved ..... (Refers to map). The area that we do not agree he should be given approval to grade on is in this one over here .... Talking about protective slopes .... Also... in This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 Outlot A...there for the purpose of stormwater detention and open space .... This is an area that has not been disturbed .... Ground cover has not been disturbed. Our recommendation to the P/Z Commission was to approve the Sensitive Areas Plan for grading Area A and B with the deletion of Area C from the approval .... (Refers to map) .... Outlot A is all of this. There is a pond here .... Recommendation is to delete area C from this plan. Norton/Where is the developable property? Area A? Franklin/Yes... (refers to map). Kubby/ Franklin/ Kubby/Are we under any obligation to allow the grading in Area B? Franklin/No, I think you could make the judgement that it is not appropriate... need to articulate that .... into critical slopes... no retaining wall required. It is a ravine that has had siltation from other construction on the site .... Balancing out some of the interests of property owner to develop... trying to contain this... not have total destruction of the ravines in Outlot A .....That is the solution that we have come up with .... Kubby/Besides giving the commercial development more room for development, what environmental advantage is there in grading Area B? Franklin/There is not an environmental reason why you should grade is .... Norton/ Franklin/ Kubby/If we wanted to remove area B from the zone, we would need to meet with P/Z and continue the p.h.? Franklin/I think that would be prudent ..... Thornberry/ Franklin/There is some siltation .... Jeff's request was to be able to grade so he had the entire area all flat for construction ..... This one with the protected slopes and no disturbance ..... It was preferable to have the grading occur .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 9 Lehman/...will Lot C go away and be done or are we going to have to come back and address that in some time in the future when somebody else wants to grade it? Franklin/I can't say there won't be a request sometime in the future .... The protected slopes are the most important slopes in the spectrum of slopes that we tried to preserve. Lehman/ Franklin/The intent is that this will just stay as is (refers to map). Thornberry/Will that be affected by any grading in B? Franklin/It shouldn't be. Kubby/...where grading was done inappropriately .... We just revise their application and their grading plan to kind of side with what they actually did instead of what was suppose to be done without any kind of fines or recourse really .... At this point there aren't any environmental infractions ..... Vanderhoef/ Franklin/It would be an environmental infraction, I would think .... Sensitive Areas Ordinance says that you are not to disturb the land... without getting a permit. Kubby/Even if we allowed them to work... could we still impose an environmental infraction? Franklin/I don't know. Dilkes/I don't think we would. Kubby/In general .... We are still in transition time .... I just want to find a way to make our ordinance work. To have some heat, credibility on the front end .... Feel the consequence. Vanderhoef/ Thornberry/ Kubby/It would have been better with him leaving it alone. It is not better than its original condition. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 10 Franklin/Hypothetically question... If someone just goes and bulldozes land, with out a permit and no grading plan, that is an environmental infraction. To rectify that... we would impose the environmental infraction.. some kind of fine... They would then have to get a grading plan in the Sensitive Areas Overlay to proceed doing anything more .... In this case, there was a grading plan... permitted prior to the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. I can't say exactly what happened in this case .... Champion/This was not land that couldn't be graded .... What keeps them from just running a bulldozer across that? .... Kubby/...I would want to make sure our inspectors give special attention to issues of timing ofplantings .... Talking to folks on the bulldozers about what the parameters are before they start moving their equipment .... Norton/...they recommend leaving this bottom area out of it all together .... Where does the water? .... Franklin/(Refers to map). Norton/ Franklin/(Refers to map). Kubby/ Thornberry/Public hearing, hear what they have to say .... Franklin/...I am surprised they are not here tonight. Norton/ Franklin/I thought you meant somebody representing Jeff Maxwell. The stormwater management easement comes through here (refers to map). Vanderhoef/What are the possibilities on the rest of that Outlot? ..... I am not real clear how steep those slopes are in those outlots and how much is water. Franklin/(Refers to map). That is water and then it goes that way. Protected slopes are fight in here. This is critical. The protected are in here ..... rest of these are critical. Vanderhoef/At the top and bottom of the map .... Franklin/(Refers to map). There are not subject to what we are looking at here. Not intended to be changed in anyway. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Io~va City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 11 Vanderhoef/ Kubby/...Are you saying that would remain undisturbed? Franklin/Yes. That the remainder of Outlot A, with what you have got on your diagrams there .... All of this would stay the same, stay as it is. But the grading that is shown... that is where it is going to be graded ..... Lehman/Why don't we move on Karin? We will have the p.h. tomorrow night .... Public input. Franklin/(Refers to map). Maybe before you take your first vote, spread this out on the table and see it more clearly .... Vanderhoef/You could leave the map on the back table .... Kubby/I wouldn't mind going on a field trip with someone who can be real directive about exactly where we are talking about. Franklin/Okay .... Snowed over and drifted. O'Donnell/P/Z have... walked the area and they are recommending to us we can have grading on A & B. Dean Shannon/We went out and looked at it .... What I got out of it is A... pretty much done .... Needs to be dressed up .... Tube, a lot of gravel... A is no big deal. B, I don't think is going to be too much more done. It is about there. I think C has been excluded. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-5 SIDE 1 Shannon/This is real hard this map. That is why we went out there. Kubby/I thought there was no disturbance to Area B. Is there any disturbance to Area B at this point? .... Franklin/I didn't think it had been graded yet. But you are saying, Dean, that it has already been graded? Shannon/He has done some work there .... Just going to dress it all up .... Erosion is setting in .... (Refers to map) .... What he wanted to do is he wanted to fill this in and eliminate those two critical side slopes and then he would have a 1:4 slope here .... An engineer from city staff came out .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 1 I, 1999 Council Work Session Page 12 Kubby/ ....It can physically be done. Franklin/...at this point then you had a precipitous slope that then resulted from having filled in the ravine because of the size of this ravine (refers to map). You also are starting to get into the protected slopes fight here and that is why we strongly suggested taking that one out. Kubby/Dressing up sounds pretty low key compared to removing and changing the grade .... What do you mean? Shannon/When we run a grader around there .... Just to kind of- It is pretty rough fight now. To smooth it out .... He walked down there with me and he is just going to round out this bowl... He wasn't going to do anything more with A and not really anything with B .... He wanted C real bad .... Nothing else you can do with A & B .... We backed up and just gave him the A & B. O'Donnell/ Kubby/It feels like... get clarified. Was anything done in B already? .... Shannon/He came to us. He really wanted C .... he wanted to round out and be able to use more of Lot 8 ..... (All talking). f. Consider a resolution approving a final plat of Village Green Part XVII, a 30.85 acre, 2-1ot residential subdivision with two outlots located on Wellington Drive. (SUB98-0029) Franklin/Consider a resolution approving final plat of Village Green, Part 17. This is final plat on two lots for more of Wellington Condominiums. Karr/It is not 17, it is 16, a typo ....It should be 16. And did we skip e.? Franklin/Sorry. See discussion after Item # e. e. Consider an ordinance to vacate street right-of-way located east of North Market Square Park, and south of Horace-Mann School. (VAC98-0006) (Second consideration) Franklin/We are suggesting that you expedite that so that you can do Item #10. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 13 Kubby/But why is Item #10 on here until the third reading? Is there a time limit issue? Franklin/It has been an issue around for the school district since last spring. Kubby/So why is it not in two weeks? Franklin/There is nothing special ....You do need to do the p.h. on Item #10 but don't do the resolution. Norton/I am getting confused. What item are you talking about? Franklin/Item e. which is the vacation of Market. Kubby/ Lehman/There is no point in having 10 if we don't pass e. Franklin/Right but 10 we set for p .h. last time. Sorry about that ....Got to have the p.h. but you don't have to vote on the resolution. Lehman/ Franklin/It is a p.h. on conveyance ..... Karr/Mr. Mayor, it is a two step process. You have an ordinance to vacate. Then after it is vacated, you convey. It is a p.h. to convey. Lehman/I realize that ....Do we have a problem with expediting this? Council/(No). Lehman/All fight. Karen, this is pretty non-controversial, isn't it? Kubby/It is .... The law. I agree to expedite when there is some purpose for expedition .... When there is no reason, I think we should follow the public process all the way through .... Lehman/Okay. Vanderhoef/We are not doing it? (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 14 Norton/Are we doing e...expediting? .... (All talking). L con't Lehman/Do you have a question on Village Green? Vanderhoef/Yeah, when I was reading all the materials here, there are talking about putting all this additional drainage in there ....Basements...high water table and so forth. Franklin/Where were you reading that? Vanderhoef/Some place in this machine. Norton/Page 309, take a look. Vanderhoef/Thank you. It talks about they had done this in another area ..... They are going to do that on this one also .... I was just curious about whether the basements were truly dry in the previous area and... How this might relate to stormwater when you have additional drainage .... Kubby/We did it in the southeast part of town but we have never had much follow up to know how successful .... Franklin/Whispering Meadows we did it .... Vanderhoef/ Franklin/I will have to check on that because I thought they were going to have no basements or require that you have the additional drainage around each unit to take it away from the house. It is a requirement that we put into the subdivider's agreement. Vanderhoef/ Champion/ Franklin/It is the area around the house. Each building... if you are going to have a basement or a crawlspace, you need to put in that additional drainage system around the house. Vanderhoef/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Cotmcil Work Session Page 15 Franklin/There is also a requirement of a window opening has to be a certain level above the water table .... In the specs for any building that goes in there .... Norton/We should get a report on whether that works in the previous area. Atkins/(Can't hear). Vanderhoef/Thanks. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Review Agenda Items 99-5 S1 1. (Agenda #4e(2)- Atkins/...#4e(2) .... We will ask that you defer that matter. Karr/We are deleting it from the Consent Calendar. 2. (Agenda #7 - Park Maintenance Building in Napoleon Park). Atkins/Then Item #7 ....ask you that you defer. Open the heating and do not close the hearing 3. (Agenda #23-Consider a resolution adopting the sales tax policy). Atkins/And thirdly ....I had a minor change in the sales tax policy. Seems to be some redundancy .....item 3 ....Minor change ..... Thornberry/I think I want to see it before tomorrow night. 4. (P/Z b. Public hearing on an ordinance designating 2 South Linn Street as an Iowa City Historic Landmark.) Champion/ .... Harmon Building. Have we thought at all .... different facade? Atkins/If you want to design the comer to look like the Harmon Building... stmcturally it wouldn't work. Norton/We asked Jeff to look at that. Atkins/To make it look like the Harmon Building .... Champion/No, you would use the Harmon Building. Lehman/That won't work. Atkins/Stmcturally (can't hear). 5. (Agenda #7- Park Maintenance Building in Napoleon Park). O'Donnell/Steve, on #7, how long are you deferring this? Atkins/Two weeks. Karr/It is in the comments. The comment says the 26th. 6. Thornberry/I kind of have a question on all these ordinances creating conservation codes and all of that. The changes of the codes of the buildings? Dilkes/The next item. Page 16 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 17 Lehman/That is the next item on the agenda. 7. (Agenda #17- Foster Road Improvement Project). Norton/I forget which one it is. There is a Foster Road, item #17. I wasn't quite clear and I don't know what is in that even though I looked at the details. Is that the road and stuff along the road or does it include a trail that goes perpendicular along Foster Road on out to the water plant? I am not quite clear what is included in there. Atkins/I will have to find that out for you ..... Norton/...paving, trails and water lines that run parallel to Foster Road itself. Dilkes/Are you talking about the resolution authorizing acquisition? Norton/Yes. Dilkes/It is whatever is included in that project and I don't know the answer to that. Foster Road r.o.w... Kubby/Does that include the trails is the question we need answered. Atkins/...We will check for you tomorrow. Vanderhoef/ Norton/I just want a clarification as to what is included in the Foster Road r.o.w. for sure. 8. (Agenda #4e(1)- Norton/And the GO bonds that are being authorized, that is just for refinancing some things? Atkins/An existing bond issue we are allowed to refund once .... 9. (Agenda #4e(3)- Norton/Ped mall work starts when? Atkins/Spring time. Norton/All right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 18 Building Codes 99-5 S1 Lehman/Building Codes. This is our new Senior Building Inspector .... Hennes/Thank you. I wanted to bring you up to date from where we are from the last meeting and as council directed, we have gone back to the Historic Preservation Commission as well as the Homebuilders to resolve some of these issues as well as the Board of Appeals. The item regarding the permit fee has been corrected so that no additional costs are incurred. That was the addition of a sentence that was taken care of. This time in between meetings also allowed us enough time to resolve the foundation wall issue with the Homebuilders... I think it is a workable solution for everybody .... The ...Historic Preservation Commission review the item as far as when permits are not required and it has always been the rule of thumb that window replacement of s.f., duplexes or accessory buildings did not require a building permit and we attempted to put it in Code language here so we had something to go off of.... Controversy. The Historic Preservation Commission is in agreement with it and they do support the adoption. We did amend the Code to reflect council's that. The Board of Appeals, the recommended that council amend it back out of the Code to where a permit would not be required for window replacement. Norton/What is their logic? Hennes/I will introduce John Roffman...on Board of Appeals. John Roffman/I was the one that recommended we back out of there .... Building Codes are to protect the public .... If we hear an appeal .... We have to follow a certain set of guidelines that allow us to say yes we can or cannot accept something .... We can go to alternate building materials or something like this .... We have to have substantial reason and be able to support that .... Second issue is that you are depriving the citizens of their rights to do what they want with their property that is not covered with the rest of the people in the community .... To me that is discrimination .... In my opinion, it has to be blanket wide or not at all. Champion/ Roffman/What I am saying is if you are going to do it, you ought to do it through Historic Preservation and have the people in that area be involved with doing it .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 19 Thornberry/...If someone is in that area and they don't want to be part of that historic preservation area, you can't- You have no choice .... Champion/Certificate of Appropriateness .... We have all kinds of zoning to protect areas and that is just another zoning .... Roffman/I think that is our point. It is a zoning issue, not a Code issue. Lehman/You are saying .... Norton/But if they don't have to get a building permit, nobody will know. Thornberry/ Norton/Without a permit, how will Historic Preservation know? Kubby/This is a place to trigger that mechanism .... NortOn/ Lehman/John, how would it be if it were in the Code that if you want to replace windows in a historic preservation zone, you have to have a building permit? Roffman/That is Code specific by zoning. The code is geographical throughout the city, it covers all areas .... Dilkes/I thought the proposal was that only if you were in a historic overlay zone that you would need a building permit- Hennes/That is correct .... Lehman/ Norton/Doesn't say you couldn't do it, it just means you have to have some review .... Virtues of historic areas which are a virtue to the whole city .... Thomberry/This is why I say someone should be allowed to be excluded from it .... Forced into a situation that they may not want to be in. Kubby/You need to understand what it is that you are buying. Lehman/ Thornberry/I am just saying to change your windows. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 20 Lehman/ O'Donnell/IfI buy a house in the historic district and I don't like the siding, I can change that siding .... Norton/That is a gap in my judgement .... An error. O'Donnell/I have to have my windows approved yet I can put on any siding .... Kubby/ .... I think siding should be something that is permitted in a historic preservation zone .....Windows ....changes... the atmosphere, the look, the contours of your house .... Norton/ Hennes/The re-application of siding is also exempt from a building permit unless you are in a historic preservation zone. So you do need to get a permit for siding and windows in an historic overlay zone. O'Donnell/We just went through that. (All talking). Hennes/If you are replacing siding, you need to have a building permit which will trigger the Certificate of Appropriateness. Lehman/That is a change from what we have now ..... Norton/Historic Preservation is looking at that whole issue of siding ....Harmon Building... has been changed substantially. Thornberry/ Norton/I just think the window thing is very important .... Historic Preservation will have to work out how to balance .... Lehman/Tim .... This proposal will change... If you want to change your windows or your siding in a Historic Preservation Zone, you will have to get a building permit which you will get only after having to meet approval of the design by the Historic Preservation Committee? Hennes/Correct. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 21 Lehman/ Hennes/The historic overlay zone, yes. Roffman/I have the same problems. It is still not a health and safety issue which building codes are. Champion/It is not a health and safety issue. Roffman/...You are targeting one area versus another. Champion/ Roffman/Now you have added something different to it. Thornberry/What about roofs, shingles? Norton/Roofs are not in it. Henries/The roof, the re-application of shingles and sheeting, the problem... reason they need a building permit- The Historic Preservation review does not kick in until a building permit is required .... When they put the new OSB sub-sheeting on there, that they needed a building permit because that was looked at as a structural change. Thornberry/ Hennes/ .... it has been looked at as a structural repair. But a s.f. dwelling does not require a building permit to re-shingle .... Personally I do not think that the sheeting that is applied over the space sheeting is adding structural integrity to the building. It probably is but that is not the intent .... Back to the windows, the siding and windows, you can replace them in a s.f. or duplex as long as you are not in the historic zone without a building permit. Once you enter the historic overlay zone, you are required to have a permit and that is the way it is in the Code right now. Thornberry/...If you change the size of the opening? .... Hennes/I think that is going to be a judgement call ....Fit existing openings .... Roffman/If header doesn't change or structure doesn't change .... Hennes/ .... if you have an egress window in the bedroom, you want to make sure that egress window goes back in. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 22 Lehman/John, I am not real sure I am quite clear in my mind why the Board of Appeals recommends against the revision that would require a permit for windows and siding in an historic overlay zone. Tell me again. Roffman/... It has always been the rule of thumb that we have never issued permits for window replacement when you did not increase or decrease the size of a window .... Thornberry/The building permit is going to be required everywhere? Lehman/No. Hennes/Just in the overlay zone .... Lehman/...In that zone only... Board of Appeals recommends against the revision. Kubby/John has said it is not a health and safety issue and because it takes away property rights. Roffman/Thank you. Champion/ Lehman/...There are certain things you get in return. You lose some of your property rights when you accept that designation. Norton/ Roffman/My issue is that if you bought into historic preservation district and you had this set of criteria and now you have this set of criteria, then you should go to those people who are in the district and say this is what is going to be proposed, this is what you need to do. Norton/The historic preservation people worked with those people all of the time .... In our judgement, it is a virtue to the community ....I think this is a long that same line .... Vanderhoef/Haven't they already been looking at that... Historic Preservation Commission .... I think it is being reviewed .... Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 23 Hennes/The people who live in that district have been sent letters from Scott Kugler out of the Planning Department. They have been notified .... She was unhappy of the change because of the requirement for a building permit .... Champion/ Norton/What is on tomorrow night? A p.h.? Hennes/Tomorrow night- Because of the foundation revision, I think Eleanor felt that it was enough of a change to hold another public discussion .... Dilkes/I just thought for consistency sake .... Hennes/Public discussion, then right after a recommendation for first reading. Kubby/Hopefully it is something the press will help highlight for us .... Norton/ Lehman/Tim, is there anything else that you want to discuss with us about these Code changes? Hennes/...It is going to go through three readings .... Respectively ask that we expedite it in the three readings so we can set up some meetings with Homebuilders. Lehman/You don't have to use the word expedite when you use the word three. Thornberry/On these things... see item #12 for comment. The #12 comment says that the members of the Homebuilders Association have been kept informed .... Were there any of these items... in favor of or not in agreement with? Hennes/I thimk the big issue with the Homebuilders was foundation wall reinforcement requirement and that has been worked out with them .... Doug Boothroy/There was a list and we went through each one of these... comments from the Homebuilders .... Lehman/You don't know of any glaring problems? Boothroy/I don't think there are any glaring problems, any problems at all at this point .... in attendance at tomorrow night's meeting. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January I 1, 1999 Council Work Session Page 24 Lehman/Thank you. [Council Break] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 25 Recreation Fees 99-5 S1 Trueblood/Schedule of proposed fees and charges for the Recreation Division .... Please feel free to take very little time with this issue ....Summarize very quickly... last year, 40 fee increases. This year for next year ....We are proposing 21 fee increases... have tentatively identified 51 fee increases for the following year in FY2002 .... Keep on an every other year basis .... Thornberry/At least every five years you don't have to take a big jump. Lehman/ Champion/Do you compare these fee changes at all with the cost of living increases?... Trueblood/No, we haven't based it on cost of living increases ....What we have done is we have tried... compare it with other communities .... With private sector... We try to maintain affordability to the extent possible. We do have the low income fee .... Are becoming very concern that we are reaching a point... fees have to be a concern of the average person who doesn't qualify for low income. Champion/I think some of them are getting really high .... What is low income? What is that based on? Trueblood/Essentially the same program as the school free lunch program. Vanderhoef/Have you seen that figure... Cedar Rapids... trying to base fees on the entertainment dollar .... Using a figure of $3 an hour for entertainment fees .... I think we are real close to hitting that kind of price when we look at our expected times .... Trueblood/I know the consultant they have hired but I have not seen those figures. Vanderhoef/It was a comparison a consultant made .... $3 an hour. Champion/ Kubby/Keep youth activities cheaper. Vanderhoef/...this past year... swimming price for adults and children at the same price. How did that work? Trueblood/...whenever we raise fees, we always get some complaints about the fees that go up .... Vanderhoef/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 26 Norton/ Trueblood/We are proposing for next fiscal year 21 fee increases .... Norton/...expenses... wages .... Replacement costs... Trueblood/To the extent possible, for the adult activities we like to try to be 100% self supporting with respect to direct costs .... For youth... 50% of direct costs. But there are some youth activities... possible or equitable .... Bigger need for lower income folks... Just a judgement call .... Subjective .... Norton/...I can remember (the says) when nobody paid for recreation .... User fees are really getting to be a killer .... Kubby/What does MPAC stand for? Trueblood/Mercer Park Aquatic Center. Kubby/Why is that rental fee steady for so long? .... Trueblood/Simple answer is we don't get any so why raise it? (All talking). Vanderhoef/Do you have the figure?... How much the Recreation Department pays in taxes for sales tax on the programs? Trueblood/Not off the top of my head...somewhere in the neighborhood of $20,000 - $25,000 total sales tax expense. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-5 SIDE 2 Trueblood/$6,000 .... wouldn't be total all activities. Lehinan/ Vanderhoef/What I would like to put out here is a legislative kind of thing... fees .... We do pay tax on everyone of those admission fees .... I wondered... what the State Recreation Association is doing for approaching the state legislature about dropping sales tax on city recreation programs? Trueblood/It is not on everything. It is on sports activities on a non-instructional variety .... When this was first established by the legislature, our state association This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 27 fought it hard for 3-4 years to get it banned ....Brick wall ....We would direct our attention to other areas .... Vanderhoef/Is this a item to go back to the legislature and see if it is something that ought to be looked at again? .... If fees stayed the same .... We eat that tax so that we can keep our registrations at an even number. Atkins/I have my board meeting next week, take it with me .... Lehman/ Trueblood/It may be closer to $15,000 that we pay in sales tax .... Vanderhoef/It is worth asking about again... Another thing... You have dropped the stocking of chemicals for the photo lab .... Is the pottery clay is the only other commodity that we are providing at this point? Trueblood/No... for example, all of our arts and crafts classes we provide the material that is needed in those classes. Moran/The dark room doesn't get very much use and the chemicals have a short life span .... Low usage. The pottery studio .... Very active... Vanderhoef/ Thornberry/How much less is cost plus 5% for the clay? Moran/I couldn't tell you ....Preference by the potters .... Lehman/Thank you .... Kubby/Thank you for having two resolutions. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 28 PCRB Standard Operating Procedures 99-5 S2 John Watson/I am impressed by your little black machines .... The fact that you are all using them .... Good evening... I am vice-chair of the PCRB .... Our Standard Operating Procedures which will help guide us and future boards... We are here to ask that you defer consideration of the Board' s SOP until after our joint meeting with you on February 11. There are three reasons for our request: 1. There is no compelling reason for immediate action by the council .... Since we began our work in September 1997 we have processed a total of 26 complaints containing over 60 individual allegations. We were able to do this because we have been cautious and deliberate in our work .... Careful... We will continue to be careful. 2. This will be one of the most important working documents for the Board .... May need to be changed but we have worked long and diligently on this written SOP and it is just not right to make changes that we object to without discussing those changes directly with us. 3. While the Board concurs with most of the changes that staff have recommended, we have strong objections to two of them. One of these... addressed in paragraph 2 in the City Attomey's memo is the recommendation that the complainant be excluded or not invited to the summary dismissal hearing. The complainant has a compelling interest in this hearing and should not be excluded or not invited .... Board can go into executive session, which is how we normally handle confidential matters ..... The second issue... addressed in paragraph 3 of the City Attorney's memo. We strenuously object to the recommendation that all identifying information be deleted from the Board's complaint form... Chief now uses an identification system in his reports that precludes our use of them to track individual officer misconduct. The PCRB ordinance contains a clear implication that the Board has a fight to the names of officers because the ordinance gives the Board the fight to release the name of an officer when a complaint is sustained. That is in Section 8-8-7b(3) .... We will develop and implement a process that will prevent the public identification of officers through our reports. We feel one of our most important functions is to be able to track misconduct complaints against individual officers. The charge to the PCRB is stated in the preamble of the ordinance that created this Board. We will provide you with a copy of that preamble .... It says that the PCRB is to independently and irapartially review complaints of police misconduct .... To help assure that police performance and conduct is in keeping with community standards. In order to carry out... the Board feels strongly and unanimously that it must retain the authority and the ability to track allegations of misconduct against individual officers. We realize that this is not the occasion to enter into discussion of these issues. Therefore we urge you to defer action of the PCRB SOPs until you have an opportunity to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 29 discuss them with all interested parties and that certainly should include the PCRB. I have copies of that preamble that I would like you to have. Kubby/If we chose to do that, it would be the 23rd of February .... Makes...sense. I know that we had that one change we made that the City Attorney felt was... constitutional issue change... that we would wait on these others. Seems like a very reasonable request. Lehman/Eleanor... why you feel this is something that should be paid attention to sooner than later. Dilkes/I think substantively with respect to the substantive issues .... Let me speak mostly to the procedural issues. First of all we have been discussing... Doug and I have had a number of conversations... The most recent sticking point has come about due to the memo from R. J. revising the numbering system. I would take issue with sort of the implication that there hasn't been discussions between Doug and I about these .... I told you that there were a couple of issues that we needed to work out. We have almost done that with the exception of the one about whether the complainant should be invited to attend a meeting. This most recent issue is a new one .... I disagree with a board of this nature, getting procedural rules in place is not a compelling issue. This is, in some ways, not quite but sort of like a quasi- judicial kind of board and procedural rules are important for that kind of board .... Perhaps those rules should have been in place before there was any deliberation and complaints... We learn as we go along with this board because it is new to all of us. I think having the procedural rules in place are important ....Even if you have to change them down the road .... On the all identifying information issue, there was not a dispute about that language... things like the physique of the officer .... Instead of giving the name you are giving physical characteristics .... I wasn't even contemplating or thinking about R. J. 's most recent memo when I added that language... We clearly disagree substantively on a couple of things here and I have explained my reasoning to you... I think yes, you can go into an executive session but I think at that point the damage very well may have been done. There is no other instance in the deliberation of this board where parties to the complaint are invited to an open session. The sanctioning of the public nature of that is difficult .... There is a balancing of interests there and I come out one way .... Kubby/It sounds like the request is one about process. When there are conflicting recommendations or where we disagree with one part .... We have a meeting with them .... We have said we are going to talk to the PCRB before we make this and now- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 30 Thornberry/Let her finish. Dilkes/I do have one more thing... I don't know that we are necessarily talking about a month. There are a number of things on the table that possibly involve ordinance changes and those changes may involve additional changes to the SOPs from the draft that is in front of us... I don't feel confident that we are going to get these SOPs in place as soon as we have that joint meeting. Watson/We do have SOPs in place. We have been operating under these SOPs since we were formed .... We have been developing these SOPs as we go .... And we have been following these ....There is a dispute ....We will continue to follow them until they are changed. Dilkes/If these are indeed the SOPs that are in place fight now, then what is the harm of adopting them. What happens tomorrow? .... Is the information about the complainant to be redacted or is the information not to be redacted? I don't know. Watson/Be redacted fight now. Dilkes/Then I guess if those are the rules then we should put the public on notice that those are the rules right now as they stand .... In a month...those rules might change. But procedural rules mean nothing if they are not in writing and given notice to the people you are dealing with that those are your procedures. Norton/I am torn on the matter that we are not suppose to talk substance to night .... Looking at the four points of disagreement .... Between the City Attorney and the Board, two of them, identity of officers and the one about name clearing and who is present at that, I can see some ways to I think solve those to the benefit of both parties... I would like to discuss it with the Board before we put them in place .... Looks to me like there are some ways to slice the cake and have both ways .... Vanderhoef/That can be changed at anytime. I am concerned with not having something in place that is understood by everyone ....I still think we need to accept SOPs tomorrow night whatever ones they are .... I am still very concerned about the identification of an officer. I would error personally on the safe side and exclude the complainant at this point as suggested by the City Attorney .... Kubby/By voting on SOPS before we talk with the PCRB leads us to following the recommendations of the City Attorney because that is who we have heard from... I think it will be more difficult to change them afterwards .... I feel very uncomfortable about voting for them until we have discussed it with .... Meet sooner... Watson/We are willing to do that, too. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 31 Kubby/But before February 9 which is our next council meeting...defer for one meeting... try to have that meeting. I am willing to change my schedule to make that meeting happen sooner for them .... Lehman/The way we are right now is you have SOPs that have not been adopted or approved by council? Watson/Right. Champion/But they have been following them. Lehman/But these are procedures that council has never reviewed ..... Champion/I like the idea of waiting until we talk with the group even the identification of the officers situation bothers me .... Thornberry/They would make a difference to the officer if the complaint were filed tomorrow. O'Donnell/...I have a great deal of faith in the City Attorney and staff... they are to advise us... I believe that we have to follow them. Norton/The question of identify is over done. (All talking). Norton/ .... think of the identification, the freedom of identification of the officers who are doing the investigation within the Police Department. They certainly know who everybody is... O'Donnell/There is not one thing we can't change .... We have been advised by the City Attorney ..... Dilkes/I am a little confused when John is talking about the procedural rules that we are going to operate on until we get some adopted .... Watson/...we know what some of your concerns are. One is the identification of officers. That is something we can deal with. We can solve that problem in our report to prevent that kind of thing happening again .... It has been trial and error .... I guess I just add this. You do need to listen to your City Attomey and take her advise but we are your appointed board, too. We have been dealing with this first hand for a year and a half and we ask that you listen to us, too .... And respect our This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 32 judgement .... We have been almost painfully careful sometimes and we will continue to do that. Thornberry/... We will meet with you and we will listen to you .... Watson/We are concerned about the momentum of that. Once they are in place, this is what the City Attorney says and you are going with that but you haven't heard what we have to say about that .... Dilkes/We change procedural rules .... We make changes to these kinds of things a lot. Kubby/Because this is the foundation of what is happening that makes it different... First time we officially adopt the SOPs .... It feels bigger...out of respect for the group that has been meeting every Tuesday forever to listen before we adopt the first round .... Creates a foundation for me. Thornberry/ Norton/If we proceed with this stuff.... O'Donnell/I have faith in this Board, too, Dee .... We all know the procedures. Norton/I would like to get it right if we can .... Lehman/Any board or commission really serves as an arm of the city government .... I don't think the PCRB is any different ....Ultimately it becomes the responsibility of the council to oversee what occurs ....Responsible for any activity for any board or commission. I frankly concur with Eleanor .... I think there should be procedures in place .... These two or three points are important enough as far as the City Attorney are concerned that she is recommending that we make those changes ....I don't think we ever discussed that the reason for the meeting was the SOPs. Watson/One of the reasons was to discuss the SOPs .... We tried to have that in December. Lehman/It is not what the original concept for meeting with the PCRB came from. Watson/That was one of the reasons. (All talking). Lehman/I have no problem with adopting the recommendation of the City Attorney. I have a real problem if we don't discuss these when we do have our meeting and if This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 33 there need to be changes, that those changes be made .... These are important things that should be written down .... I have to accept that advice. Kubby/How about we adopt the procedures that the PCRB recommends to us and then we will have the same kind of conversation that we will have on the 11th of February .... Lehman/You are telling me you would accept the recommendation of a board or commission over your City Attorney. Kubby/In this instance, yes .... You are saying it can be changed .... The big rational that I am heating from a number of people is that we need to have something in place immediately and that we can change it ....Why not go the other way out of respect for the commission and then change it ....? Norton/ ....I would like to get it as close to fight before we proceed with it .... Lehman/Wait a minute. I believe, Dee, that there are going to be some changes made to these. I would like to see those changes made in cooperation with the PCRB and not done just among us as council people .... Should be in a joint meeting. Norton/We are being hassled... to get something on the books .... O'Donnell/We are being advised by the City Attomey. Lehman/What is your pleasure? We have one, two, three (deferral). We will vote tomorrow night and you can be assured that we will discuss these. Norton/ Lehman/I just think it would be more appropriate to make changes with the cooperation of the Board. Norton/I am just trying to set the ground work to make sure these don't get so locked in that we can't change them. Lehman/From my perspective .... Recommendation from the City Attorney... she is hired to advise us .... She is the City Attorney .... Kubby/We can respectfully disagree with her. O'Donnell/ Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 34 Lehman/John, between now and that meeting it would be very helpful I think for all of us to have some things to look over regarding changes .... What you guys would like to see changed. Watson/We will be making some specific recommendations. Lehman/We would appreciate that. Kubby/Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 35 Airport Land Acquisition Program 99-5 S2 Lehman/ Mitchell/As you know you have a resolution on your agenda for tomorrow night regarding additional funding for ACSG in connection with property acquisition and the Airport Master Plan. Unfortunately ACSG underestimated their costs in acquiring property .... The FAA is picking up 90% of the costs. FAA has indicated they are okay with an increase in funding but ultimately it is up to the Commission and city council to decide .... The Airport Commission did approve it last Tuesday .... It is really in the best interests of the city and the airport in this case .... Both representatives from ACSG .... as well as members of Airport Commission .... Thornberry/...There were some things in that contract that they requested that they do over and above the contract .... Mitchell/The amount of the contract was $511,000. Oh, about $50,000. Thornberry/Change orders ..... I think we owe them that money. As far as contracting to do a certain job for a certain price outside the change orders, just because some negotiations took longer than others... than anticipated, that is why you submit your application to do the job .... If things get bogged down a little bit, that is the price of doing business .... I think the contract should be held to .... Mitchell/I certainly understand your concerns .... In discussing this with the FAA .... Not concerned about it because they indicated that it is difficult to estimate how much time and expense you are going to have with negotiations with property owners. Thornberry/Great memo. Did they submit a bid to do a job? Mitchell/ Lehman/ Mitchell/This is Pat Bridger from ACSG. Lehman/...kind of give us a thumb nail sketch of where we are and how we got there .... Pat Bridger/A lot of the negotiations did take a lot longer than we had anticipated .... We are dealing with people out there and sometimes it does take longer. We gave you our best guess up front and regrettably it didn't come out. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 36 Lehman/We are looking at a difference .... over a 50% increase in the contract from $510,000 ....Adding almost $300,000. Almost 60% more than your original estimate. Bridger/Yes .... There were situations where we just could not- We tried and tried and tried to negotiate these and the landowners intentionally held us off. They hired attorneys to hold us off. Thornberry/One negotiation, did that bring your whole negotiations, the rest of it, to a stand still? Bridger/No and we have kept going and we have succeeded .... Can I ask Greg, the project manager, to specifically address these questions. Kubby/Those kinds of tactics by property owners... should have been anticipated in the price. Thornberry/ Greg Bridger/It is anticipated in the price when you do a project like this and this project .... Is what we call in the box .... I carry around two Plexiglas boxes and they have files .... Right now I am carrying files from five different projects and it is normal for us to constantly be winding up projects and taking care of details and grant reimbursements. This project, other than the relocation of the mobile home park which should have been started last June, is in the box. All the negotiations are at a phase where they can be easily wound up... The project didn't stop .... On the other hand, we anticipated relocating two mobile home parks at once and there was no way we could have predicted that that wouldn't have happened. Now we have a whole other mobile home park to relocate. I think the best example I heard of it...If you are building a big huge building and the first thing you do... hit a boulder .... Things have really changed and this is something that really couldn't have been anticipated and this, relocating a mobile home park and then another mobile home park at totally different dates is something that I don't think we could have anticipated at all. Thornberry/The relocation of two mobile home parks is going to cost us 60% more than the contract price? How far are you along in this project? .... Greg Bridger/If we take out the mobile home park, the project is something I would be coming back in town once a month for maybe two or three days. Thomberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 37 Par Bridger/The other thing that is included in there is- Actually our budget ended in October and we have kept full staff on October, November and December. So now we are talking middle of January .... 3 ~/2 months under our belt that essentially we have been working without a budget. That is included in there. We have been going through the process and working with the Commission to try and reach and acceptable agreement on both sides. So you are not just looking at what is happening today forward ..... You are looking at 3 1/2months that we have already put in. We probably got $70,000 to $75,000 already accumulated in costs that we went ahead without a contract. Thornberry/ Greg Bridger/One the things .... Outside of the first contract we did a lot of additional survey and engineering work and we did courtroom work... specifically outside the original contract ....$58,000 number represents that ....I did present the whole thing... to the FAA ....I stopped by Kansas City on my way up here and we had at that time... keeping the office until August .... Following February for grant work and stuff like that .... It was a much larger number... Land negotiations are notoriously hard to predict just because of situations lie this .... Thornberry/ Pat Bridger/We have dropped the price... by $70,000. Norton/Ernie, I am trying to put his in context .... encountered overruns .... Tangible .... We have problems here and there .... I am not altogether appalled by this .... Lehman/The Airport Commission concurs that this is probably a fair amount .... It bothers me a great deal that we have a contract for approximately $500,000 and then we have a 60% increase .... I can anticipate moving another trailer court being a very large obstacle ....From the numbers we have right here .... Significant amount .... Bothers me. Howard Horan/Can we get the Airport Commission's spin on this? We felt exactly the same as Dean did when we were first asked for a contract extension which was somewhat more substantial than this .... And I felt exactly the same as you did .... Example... can't anticipate this expense .... I think this is one of those times that we all should make an exception and step up. We also... have done an excellent job so far... project has gone extremely smoothly... These people have an excellent relationship with the tenants in the trailer parks and the property owners .... It is consistent completely with our 1996 Master Plan... easements and acquisitions .... The price is consistent in that the FAA says oh yes, we understand... We don't have any trouble with our 90%. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 38 Lehman/Do these things happen in other places? Horan/I think they must. Vanderhoef/ Horan/We recommend that you approve the contract extension please. Kubby/I guess I would argue... unrealistic on the front end... I think that boulder could have easily been anticipated on the front end .... Lehman/Part of that we changed ourselves by condemning more of that court, involving 30 more units. Bfidger/That is fight. Lehman/ Kubby/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-6 SIDE 1 Horan/I think they were quite confident that that is what was happening .... They have done this in many many communities .... Thornberry/It is costing us another $30,000. Norton/We have to see the color of the FAA's money yet. Kubby/There is a lot of up front money. It is a matter of when, not if. Lehman/ Champion/Nobody likes this but we do owe them the money. They have been working. Thornberry/I don't think we owe them that much money. I think we owe them the money that they spent being asked for the changed orders .... But the 60% more over the original contract price just because they hit a little boulder, hey, dynamite is not that expensive. Lehman/Now we have expressed our unhappiness with what has happened up to this point, we got to move forward. Dennis, would you like to explain that option? Thornberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 39 Dilkes/We are not going to get into talking about that kind of stuff in terms of what our chances are if we have to litigate this thing. Thomberry/If we didn't give them- Dilkes/I am just telling you, I don't want to talk about that kind of stuff in open session. (All talking). O'Donnell/We are going to be reimbursed 90%of the costs. Vanderhoef/It is going to cost us $28,6- to do it. (All talking). Lehman/Dennis, if we approve this tomorrow night, is there going to be an amendment of some sort that the FAA will acknowledge and agree to the increase in cost? Mitchell/Actually the way the FAA does it is reimburse us on a parcel by parcel basis. So what I understand, they don't even look at what the total cost is down the road. They are just looking at what their actual costs were in acquiring that parcel. As long as those costs are justified they have no problem with kicking in their 90% .... I have talked to Bob Nimath at the FAA. He indicated he is comfortable with the amounts that ACSG is talking about. Lehman/ .... If we find that the acquisition of any of these parcels, that the cost of acquisition is refuted by the FAA, do we have any recourse? Mitchell/We can make sure that it is in this contract that anything not approved by the FAA- Pat Bridger/In the original meeting .... we were specifically asked by the Commission what happens and we made the firm commitment at that point that anything that wasn't reimbursable that we would work out the difference on .... Lehman/What do you mean by work out the difference? .... Bridger/You can look to us, our professional liability insurance company for the remainder of it and we would definitely agree with that. We do carry $1 million and we just changed to one of the most substantial companies around .... Norton/Do we have anything anywhere in writing from the FAA? ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 40 Horan/It is the nature of the whole Master Plan approval process that yes, we do have their commitment. If there are budgetary issues .... What it really does is extend the time but the working understanding is that their commitment is their commitment and that is what they are going to do. By the way we have received $1.2 million in grant reimbursements as part of the 1996 Master Plan. Kubby/I think we should ask for those SOPs to be in writing from the FAA. (All talking). Vanderhoef/And right now they are still owing us another $1.4 million. Mitchell/My understanding .... We should be expecting another $1 million or so before the around the beginning of the year and that we will probably continue to receive about $1 million a year over the next several years .... Hopefully we should be receiving a grant soon and then hopefully again maybe a year from now. Lehman/What is your pleasure on this? O'Donnell/I don't see that we have any choice. We have to move. Lehman/All right. Mitchell/Okay. Norton/I am assuming the Commission has already negotiated down from some other numb er. Mitchell/Yes... original proposal was about $375,000. They have come down substantially. Lehman/Very good, thank you gentlemen. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 41 Fiscal Year 2000 Budget 99-6 S1 Lehman/FY2000 Budget. Atkins/Five minutes, I promise. Lehman/ Atkins/Dale is going to be passing out three documents to you. The first document is a list of all the capital projects... by year .... Kind of a working document .... By year. Throughout the document you will see an X next to projects, that means there is no GO funding in that project .... We have also put in the 1999 projects. Most of them are somewhere underway but we wanted to show you those .... The second document is a project narrative .... That is every project alphabetically and how it is funded and the year it is funded in ....It will tell you how much GO bonds are in it, how much Road Use Tax .... A third document... Council Goal Setting from February .... Refresher... Sort of the things that you had settled in on .... Kind of a heads up to give you some idea. Now for Thursday I will have for you a tax rate analysis .... I will be able to show you .... If you sell $10 million worth of bonds, this is the tax rate and we will have that at the time .... Just for a heads up, on Thursday you only have one hour for capital projects or any part of the general budget because you have the Boards and Commission coming in at 4:00. Lehman/We have one group we didn't get through .... Atkins/You didn't get through utilities and you didn't get through capital ....We will be prepared to do both. Lehman/I personally would like to do utilities .... Atkins/That will be fine .... This is something to think about. (Refers to flipchart). Here is your fiscal years. We are going to sell $10 million worth of debt this year .... We made an assumption... based upon a capital project of $10 million a year. The budget has, 15, 11.5, 20, remember those numbers. How to think this thing out is the subject of our staff meeting this morning .... We got to thinking... we will go to the first year .... We are suggesting is think about these two years combined, that is $26.5 million .... You have $3.5 left in the out years, call it a day .... (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 42 Atkins/What I am trying to point out to you... look at these two years real seriously and then move into this next year knowing that we have $5 million that is going to have to come out of this year, move that over ....That plus that plus that equals that (refers to flipchart). (All talking). Atkins/I am telling you you have $20 million worth of debt capacity but you got $26.5 million worth of projects. What you will likely do is cut some out of there .... Move that over... You will still have $3.5- left out of all those other projects .... Something we wanted to do. We as a staff are prepared to suggest projects that we felt ..... bump out for a couple of years .... Initiate a debate of 4-5 projects... put them on the table for you .... Like a target. We can give you something to work from .... Spur your debate and then you can go to your own list. Kubby/ Atkins/We wanted to know if you wanted us to actually suggest projects to you that you think we can defer or put off. Vanderhoef/Would you have that ready by Thursday for us to take home? Atkins/No, we will be ready to do them verbally .... It is only a suggestion. Champion/How do we know? .... Atkins/It is a matter of how you go after it ....I am just trying to focus your debate for you. Kubby/Talk about a couple of guidelines .... Safety issues .... should stay in .... I just don't want this to be too staff driven... Atkins/A couple of things to keep in mind. For example, the Iowa Jet Service taxi way, $300,000 worth of debt .... Push it into an out year or just make it go away. Hwy 6 drainage, big ticket item ....Generally cosmetic... however, we have learned that we may be eligible for federal money for it that we didn't know .... Changes the numbers .... 6-8 of those kinds of things .... Lehman/What does that do to our percentage of property tax that is used to retire debt? Atkins/I will be able to calculate that for you .... Coming into the meeting we made the assumption of $10 million of debt for three years ..... Kubby/We may choose to be under $10 million a year .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 43 Atkins/$10 million brings in our 25% policy at about 22%. I know that it brings in our overall allowable debt in the high 40s .... Important thing for me is I wanted to be able to help guide you through the discussion. We know we have to make reductions. Lehman/If council is unwilling to go to 22%... I think you need to know that. We need to know where we are willing to go .... Norton/ .... We should try to decide where we think that reasonable amount should be over a period of time .... We get the proposals from the staff and we tend to be locked with them. They begin to have a life of their own .... Restraining some growth for example... Kubby/...make sure we have a little room incase the sales tax does not pass. That we still have the option of doing something for the library. Norton/That puts a big dent .... Kubby/...we need to create that contingency .... Thornberry/ .... if the sales tax doesn't pass, to rehab the current facility? Kubby/Or put it on the ballot as a property tax levy .... Thornberry/I don't think we can wait .... Kubby/...in terms of our General Fund as well for the staffing of that .... Atkins/Each of you will have some ideas on that and that is what you will need to share with me .... The important thing is that we have got to reduce some of these capital projects .... Lehman/...If the sales tax were not passed and a library bond issue were to pass perhaps in the year 2000. How long would it take to get the drawings and build the facility if it were to pass saying 2000? Atkins/We usually figure a year to plan, a year to design, a year to build. Lehman/ .... 2003 or 4 before that debt would be issued. Atkins/One of the things .... We would know that if the sales tax were to pass, beginning July 1 you would be creating income. That does not mean it is going right out the door to pay off a debt.. We would have to put together a debt plan .... The bond This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 44 itself would likely have to be sold a year later... accumulating some cash... Architectural agreement .... Would we have some additional cash? I think I could say yes depending on the timing. Norton/...consider... tax rate... depends on what happens with the sales tax, too .... Thornberry/...we can always have things on the back burner that we can throw in there if we do get this .... Norton/I think that it is really going to be tough without it ....Planning for failure is not a very good way to succeed. Kubby/If you want a project to go, you have to- Atkins/You mean create fallback for yourself. Kubby/ Thornberry/ Lehman/ Atkins/We do not then plan on capital projects on the 14th ..... Lehman/Are we going to be able to find out what other cities have in the way of allowable debt? Atkins/Yes, that report is almost finished .... (All talking). Lehman/...influence to go a little higher than it would otherwise. Champion/ Atkins/You have a general idea of what I was thinking about .... We won't do capital on the 14th ... wait until the 27th. We will do Utilities ....heating with the other folks. Karr/ ....one left off and that was Jazz Fest. You go fight to 6:00 ....If you stay on the 15 minutes. Lehman/We are going to need another session on budget. Karr/You are setting public heating on the 9th on that budget. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 45 Atkins/Your most critical budget decision is the tax rate. Karr/That has go to be done by the 9th when you set it. (Meeting schedule discussion). Lehman/Tuesday, February 2, ....6:00 PM (All talking). Kubby/I had another scheduling thing... first meeting in March .... National League of Cities .... Karr/It is the 6th through the 9th Of March. That is the night you will be adopting the budget. You could move it up or later in the week .... You have to have the budget adopted. The 9th iS a Tuesday. (Meeting schedule discussion). Karr/What about moving it to March 1 or 27 Lehman/Move. (Meeting schedule discussion). Thomberry/When do we have to have this done? Karr/15th ....March. Lehman/... calendars...bring them tomorrow night .... Kubby/ Karr/I have another question on scheduling. When you bring your schedule... look... set aside a time to talk about PCRB before the meeting of the 11th .... TO discuss PCRB issues before you meet jointly with them .... May want to set aside a time .... Lehman/There are going to be some issues... concerns or issues that staff would like to discuss with PCRB .... Probably ... meet before we get together with PCRB .... Norton/...I think we should meet. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 46 O'Donnell/ Lehman/...tomorrow night. Karr/Okay, just bring your calendars .... We will talk about the next work session too because there are some issues there that we need to talk about .... Norton/ Karr/February 2 you are either eating stylishly earlier or stylishly late. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 47 Council Appointments 99-6 S1 Riverfront and Natural Areas Commission - Russell Bennett This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 48 Council Agenda/Time 99-6 S1 1. O'Donnell/I think you should mention the Street crew and the job they did... tremendous. 2. Norton/What did you think about... Jeff's suggestion about agreement with Coralville on their review of the noah area ....We are going to discuss that on Wednesday .... Champion/They are out after our blood. Noaon/It sounded like a pretty decent arrangement .... 3. Lehman/We have scheduled Benton Street for the next work session (251h). I told those folks we would give them ½ hour on the agenda .... What I suggested, I would like to see Jeff make his proposal to council, highlighting the options that are available for Benton Street .... Only item for discussion is going to be the width of the lane .... We told the neighborhood that they may address it .... I would like to have Jeff give us the options and the pros and cons, accept some input from the neighbors .... I don't know if we will be able to give them an indication that night what our preference is .... In no event do I wish that to go longer than 7:30 ....If we need to have a second meeting, I have no problem with that .... Kubby/Could Jeff give us those pros and cons on paper? Lehman/We already his staff... repoa .... Nice to have him safe it... 3~4 minutes. Kubby/ Lehman/Is that agreeable with the rest of council? Norton/What is the date of that? Karr/25th. Do you want to put them at the front end of the agenda? Lehman/First thing. Karr/The City Conference Board will be the first thing at 6:00 .... Then move into Benton Street and then the work session. 3. O'Donnell/Tomorrow night early with the cub scouts. Lehman/6:15 with the cub scouts. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199 January 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 49 4. Lehman/We did discuss Kirkwood. Karen was not here. Does the council wish to bring that topic up again? Champion/No. Kubby/Not at all. Lehman/...If there is any interest in talking about it again, fine .... No interest. There is no point in bringing it up if everybody going to stay the same .... Okay .... Adjoumed: 9:40 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of January 11, 1999 WS011199