HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-01-26 Transcription#2 Page 1
ITEM NO. 2 OUTSTANDING STUDENT CITIZENSHIP AWARD (Lucas
Elementary)
Lehman/Item 2 is our Outstanding Student Citizenship Award, and I would ask the
students to come forward please. You guys are all from Lucas, is that right?
Now, we're gonna do something a little different tonight. Before you read your
nomination would you give your name so that folks know whose talking. OK
your first.
Luke Arens/I'm Luke Arens and I'm very honored and humbled to receive this Student
Citizenship Award tonight from the city council. I would like to thank my mother
and father for teaching the importance of being responsible, disciplined, and
cooperative. I have been able to use these qualities at school for studies, at home
with my chores, with my friends, classmates and sister and various activities. I
would also like to thank my teachers and principal Brian Lehman for trusting me
with the leadership opportunities at school. This is truly an honor of which I am
very proud. Thank you.
Aly Boyd/Hello, my name is Aly Boyd and some of the activities I have been involved
in that help me to be a good student citizen are the Optimist Good Reader
Program, Extended Learning Program, Safety Patrol, and the Smile Program
where I help younger students improve their reading, math and spelling skills. I
also enjoy sports and like to play football, softball and play on a 6th grade girls
basketball team. I also play a trumpet in the east side elementary advanced band
and I am proud to be a student at Lucas and a citizen of Iowa City.
Gabriel Munoz-Fitch/My name is Gabriel Munoz-Fitch, I think the reason I got this
award is because I'm pretty responsible and work well others. The other things I
do at school are help the special needs class, be on patrol, work at the school
store. I'm also involved with my church and work well on group projects, play
soccer and play the trumpet too. I usually do my homework right when I get
home so my parents usually never have to tell me to do my homework.
Lehman/You know folks, this is probably one of the most fun things that we do at
council. Someday you guys may be sitting up here. Don't laugh because I don't
know that I ever stood up front like this and got an award like this but I would
have been awfully proud if I did and we're very proud of you. I'd like to read
what the award says and their all, they all say the same thing. This is Citizenship
Award for Outstanding Leaderships qualities of Leadership within Lucas
Elementary as well, as the community, and for sense of responsibility and
helpfulness to others. We recognize these students as outstanding young citizens,
your community is proud of you presented by the Iowa City City Council. Thank
you.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of January 26, 1999.
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Lehman/Before we do the consent calendar there are two things I would like to bring up,
first of all there will be a special council meeting on the 281h at 9:30 in the
morning, we'll announce that at this time.
Marian Karr/291h.
???/291h.
Lehman/291h I'm sorry. And we are fortunate in Iowa City to have very very successful
history of United Way campaigns. Our folks have been extremely generous and
this year in addition to being probably the best city clerk in the state of Iowa, one
of the co-chair of the United Fund campaign is our own city clerk, Madan Karr,
and Madan we would like you to give us just a little update on United Way.
Karr/I
would happy to. This year's campaign set a ambitious goal of $1.5 million. And
today we are at 99% of that goal. $20,000 would take us over the top so I would
like to remind anyone who hasn't contributed yet that it's not too late, and also
acknowledge that the City of Iowa City employees this year increased their
donation by 110%, contributed close to $15,000 so I did want to thank them.
Lehman/Wow. Does that increase indicate some power over employees that you
exercised instead of the managers?
Thornberry/I've been there before.
Karr/I think it's, I think it'sjust a dam good Council.
Lehman/Well we're proud of you and your efforts.
Karr/Thank you.
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meeting of January 26, 1999.
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ITEM NO. 3 CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS
PRESENTED OR AMENDED.
Thornberry/So moved.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, second by O'Donnell. Discussion.
Kubby/The public hearing about the downtown construction, can we get a reminder
before we hold that public hearing about what the estimate for the streetscape
improvements were estimated to be compared to what the number was we got last
night at 1.9 million. Thank you.
Atkins/Yes, very much. Yes.
Kubby/And what the difference of some.
Norton/I want to know the identify one of the items on there had to do with accepting
work on the connector between the two sewer plants, the north and south plant,
which is $13 million dollar project I think that was estimated at 18.
Lehman/That's fight.
Norton/So there's some good news.
Lehman/Other discussion. Roll call.
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meeting of January 26, 1999.
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ITEM NO. 4. PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA) [UNTIL
8:00 P.M.].
Lehman/Item 4 is Public Discussion, this is a time we reserve for discussion from the
public, we ask that you sign in, state your name, and limit your comments to 5
minutes, and this is for items that do not otherwise appear on the agenda.
Terri Miller/Hello my name is Terd Miller and I'm here on behalf of the Senior Center
Commission tonight. Over the course of the past few months the commission has
spent a considerable amount of time talking about the multi-use parking facility
that's slated for Iowa Avenue. We had previously brought to you a request for
some parking in that facility and we're here tonight to put in a formal request for
8,000 square feet of space in that facility. The building that we are currently in
has been at capacity for quite some time, as I know probably all of you are aware
over the course of time there has been some difficulty in allocating space in that
building, there have been some agencies that currently were housed in that facility
that are no longer and that certainly was due to space requirement. The current
senior center programming also experiences some difficulty at times in the use of
the facility and in allocating the space to the programs because the staff has been
kept to a minimum amount it becomes difficult to change over the rooms in-
between programs some times and while sharing the rooms is, sharing the
particular room is not difficult sometimes arranging the room for different
programs can can be difficult and certainly has been a burden on the staff. The
commission has talked at different times about options for expansion of that
particular building. There was a time when we talked about the mezzanine and
trying to take a mezzanine across the assembly room to expand that area. There
are were a lot of problems in doing that, not that least of which the ceiling height
in that room is certainly conducive to the large programs that we have in there
now and the presentations, the band, and that type of thing which require a higher
ceiling. So that wasn't a very good option, the city architect has looked at other
options in the building to expand it in different ways either, I believe to the south
or to expand upward. The support system of the building will not handle another
story on that building, so that has not been an option either. At this point in time
when we're looking at the building of that parking ramp it seems to the
cornrnission that that is a perfect opportunity to be able to expand and to have
some room for growth for the senior center. And it's an opportunity that may not
come again, once the ramp is full, once all of that space is gone, it's not like
there' s any other room around that building to be able to do anything else. That
could lead the senior center to find space elsewhere, certainly if the senior center
were to move to another facility to perhaps build a new building or to find one
that could be remodeled, there would be a lot of cost involved in that type of thing
and the commission in discussing that has a lot of reasons why it would like to
stay in the downtown area, being close to ecumenical towers, having the bus line
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coming downtown, new parking facility right next door which would allow our
participants to have better parking, all of those things are a plus. In addition to
that we feel that having the senior center downtown is a plus to the downtown, to
have the time and talent and spending that the seniors bring to that area of town is
a positive thing to downtown Iowa City and so we feel that probably the best
option that is available to us would be to have space in the facility next door so
that we could be able to accommodate the programs that we have more easily,
accommodate the growth of the agencies that are in the building which are at
capacity currently and some are very overcrowded in their storage area and in
their office space. Given all of these things we put this request to you tonight,
we've brought along some documents so that that outline our request, that give
you more detail as to why we are requesting this and if at some point we could
perhaps meet together to discuss the details or if you have any questions certainly
we are available at any point in time to be able to talk over this issue. Thank you.
Kubby/See, we've had a lot of, we have a lot of special meetings planned for budget and
other things, and it seems our work sessions are pretty crammed lately although
maybe we, I think we need to find some to meet and talk about this.
Thornberry/I do too.
Kubby/There certainly not going to get an answer tonight.
Jay Honohan/My name is Jay Honohan, I'm also a member of the Senior Center
Commission, and one of the things that Ernie said that I was supposed to in as
part of my duties was to advocate for the senior center so I'm here tonight to do
that. We're kind of springing this on you a little bit, the reason that we're doing it
the way we did was because it was last Tuesday when I talked to some of the staff
that I discovered we may be a little bit behind in getting (excuse me) in getting
that space so we wanted to move as quickly as we could, we couldn't get our draft
report ready in time to get in on your agenda but we feel very strongly as Terri has
pointed out and this the commission is unanimous on that I guess we want that
8,000 square feet on the second floor. We think it's vital to the senior center to
have that 8,000 square feet, we think it'd be much more of a benefit to the
community if that was used for the senior center than if it was used for retail or
commercial or rental space. We're very committed to this, we have the senior
center has tremendous storage problems as you'll see in that report. We've got
some agencies that are unable to be in the senior center anymore that naturally
belong in the senior center but their requirements for space don't leave leave us
the choice they have to leave. I know the council is committed to the senior
center, this and previous councils have always been committed to the senior
center. And we feel that we need this commitment from you as been pointed out
we'd like to meet with you at your convenience to press our cause but we feel this
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is very important, it is very vital, there is some discussion as Terri mentioned
about another building. Another building would cost an awful lot of money, I
don't see it in any of your 5-year plans, and I think this is an immediate concern
of the senior center and we respectfully request that you give this very strong
consideration. Thank you.
Lehman/Jay, I have just one question I guess. We have been, and I don't want to debate
it because we don't have time to, but one of the things I guess that I'm curious
about, we have heard request for more space, but this is a quite a bit more space
than we have been heating requests for.
Jay Honohan/The last request was for 5,000 square feet.
Lehman/Yea, and this is like 7 you know percent.
Honohan/It's there, it's there and we see it needed in the future Ernie and as long as it's
there we think it's a perfect thing for the senior center. The entire 8,000 square
feet. I think we could use the entire 8,000 square feet in a very short period of
time we could fill it. We have storage problems for 2 of our agencies tight now,
that are almost impossible to take care of, one of them being the dining. But we
certainly, the reason, I started this I guess because I talked to the staff and we
found out there was 8,000 square feet available and so now we want it.
Thomberry/That's how he came up with the number.
Vanderhoef/Interesting.
Thornberry/Jay, I have a question now. How many square feet are in the senior center
now?
Honohan/I beg your pardon.
Thornberry/How many square feet are in that senior center now?
Honohan/I'm sorry I don't know the answer to that question, 25,000.
Thornberry/25,000 that's all what 3 floors? Thanks.
Honohan/Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Kubby/I guess we just need to direct Ernie to find a way in our schedule to.
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meeting of January 26, 1999.
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Vanderhoef/Well can we look at our calendars tonight and see what might be available?
Kubby/At the end of the meeting?
Norton/At the end of the meeting.
Champion/Maybe we can incorporate it into a work session.
Thomberry/Good idea.
John Anderson/Hi, how's it going? I'm John Anderson, I've been in the community for
about since about 1980. I came here to college and I flunked out of engineering
twice and that kind of has, I don't know what you guys can do I thought I'd keep
it, keep, I complain about a lot of stuff but this is the main thing I've been
complaining about for 20 years. I think their putting subliminal advertising in
textbooks. I've got a, the Wall Street Journal talks about this type of paper and
the Consumer Digest talks about the type of paper. I have a book called "The Age
of Manipulation" talks about this type of paper. It's been tested twice, one on
students, one on a one on just regular people and it's a influence people, students
behaviors and it's influenced their grade performance on one test and another test
it's influenced their product preference. So I think this is being put in the pages of
textbooks almost like a watermark, you've seen watermarks. And it's very light
ink and I called up a guy and I asked him, it wasn't Brian Keith (sp.?), you give
me samples I can go different forensic examiners and see if he'll test them. So he
sent me samples and I don't have much money so I had to con my way into these
testing it, I probably owe a few hundred dollars to people still. And one guy at
Texas Tech he uses a laser to detect finger prints, and I looked at his book and he
talked about how he can see if somebody alters a check, he can see, you can put
under laser light and you can see the different kind of ink cause in regular light it
looks it would look the same but under florescent light you can see different, two
different types of inks and it's obvious. So they do it, do it, they don't even, they
not only do it with fingerprints but they which are the oils of fluorescent, but they
do it with inks. So I said you know if there's ink on paper I said it would be a
different kind of chemical than what the paper is, so maybe that ink would fluores
you can see the background. So I sent them 2 samples, it wasn't Brian Keith (sp.
?), a very famous author, it was "Sublumal Seduction". I talked to him many
times about this. I said to him and he found it, I said your sure and he said yea. I
didn't tell him I thought they were in textbooks cause that usually from hard
experience. I said I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna mention textbooks, so I said you
sure, he said yea. So I want to send you another sample, OK. So I sent him
another example and paid him another $100, his names Roland Mensel at Texas
Tech, and he tested it and he found it. I said OK that's great, now lets test
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textbooks, I mean. And the minute he heard about textbooks, and he knew I
didn't have any support on, I was just acting as one guy outraged cause I think it's
in textbooks, and my engineer, when I was in engineering I had like a 1.96 or 1.90
and that's just that's close to passing, and if there in there, that could have made
the difference between it and now. I mean they put some anti-crime subliminal
advertising in Kmart down there and I mean and there saying if your if your going
in there you have the intent to steal something, it's not gonna stop you, but if your
not sure and your wavering it's gonna push you towards the honest edge. I mean
consumer, I mean people are doing it all the time you know. Well why couldn't it
be in textbooks and I've talked to Dean Jones about it and he just shuts me down,
the minute I went in there the first time he said I don't want to hear anything more
about this. I've had 3 professors call, 2 professors call this and one's John
Robinson of Engineering, and another guy, John Stratton of Sociology, called this
guy said you know have you tested samples, test textbooks, he said no. I've
happened to have Dr. Milinik whose a professor emeritus of engineering call him
this week he said he'd call him.
Lehman/John, why why are you bring this to our attention? What would you what do
you want us to do?
Anderson/It's a public forum, I don't think you can do anything, at least people.
Lehman/I know but I would like to know what, I hear you I.
Anderson/OK I talked to Detective Sellers I say can you call this Mensel up and he talks
with police people all the time about detecting fingerprints and Sellers said "well
let me think about it and let me talk to the attorney." And he said he talked to the
city attorney and he said there's no law against it so and because of that we can't
really do anything so it took about 2-3 weeks for him to come to that conclusion.
But he's a very nice guy and I appreciate that he talked to me but anyway I've
tried many avenues and this one of them and I'm sure nothing will happen but I'm
gonna keep going.
Kubby/All right.
Champion/Keep working on it.
Lehman/Thank you.
Shannon Nelson/Good evening, my name is Shannon Nelson, I'm with the University of
Iowa Animal Rights Coalition. I realize that you are all very busy people and that
you deal with a number of issues besides sharp shooting deer. It is not our intent
to burden the council with this issues but I hope that you would recognize that this
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meeting of January 26, 1999.
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iS a highly controversial issue. Controversial issues such as this one must involve
the public in the decision-making process. From the beginning public input on
this issue was very selected and limited. Even at the public heating for this issue,
not everyone was allowed to speak. The USDA department ofwildlife services
recognizes the need for public input on the decision-making process which is why
the national environmental policy act requires a 30 day waiting period after the
final environmental assessment is issued before the USDA can take any action.
This is where the USDA was indirect violation of the federal law. The 22 deer
that were killed last Wednesday and Thursday were killed illegally. The USDA
recognized that the environmental assessment previously issued was inadequate, it
failed to document the need for a killing program and provided no sight specific
information about deer-human conflicts. So again I ask you where is your proof
that Iowa City has a deer problem? I think the city has hurried this process to
much and as a result the deer management plan is sloppy, uneducated, and has
failed already. I would like to see the city start this process over and do it fight
this time around, the public needs to be involved, they need to have a say in this
matter. It would be a shame to see this many deer be slaughtered as a result of our
ignorance. As some of the council has already admitted, killing deer is not a long-
term solution to the problem. Thinning the herd will not address the real deer-
human conflicts at stake here unless we kill them all there will always be deer on
the road and in our yards. We as a community must teach ourselves better ways
to deal with them. Please reconsider the use of non lethal non, please reconsider
the use of non lethal deer management techniques. There is no harm done in
trying. On behalf of the University of Iowa Animal Rights Coalition I would like
to offer this to the city council and the deer management committee our full
support and assistance to implement a comprehensive non lethal deer management
strategy in Iowa City. Thank you for your time and your patience.
Lehman/Thank you.
Amanda Morgan/Hello, I 'm Amanda Morgan and I live at 517 Iowa Avenue. I think the
question on many people's minds right now is, will Iowa City resurrect the sharp
shooting program for the remainder of the season? Sharp shooting is such a
strong word it's suppose to be the last result when all other methods have failed.
Driving on both Foster Road and Taft Speedway tonight, 2 roads leading directly
into the peninsula area I noticed absolutely no deer crossing signs. You may be
thinking big deal, those aren't high access roads, but to the people who live on
them they are. And this brings up the question, if signs on those roads were
overlooked, what else has been overlooked? This has gone too far, this issue has
become too complex to carry forth the season and we urge you not to sharpshooter
this year. I urge everyone of you to please not consider hiring another agency to
complete the sharp shooting. Thank you.
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Lehman/Thank you.
Clayton Foley/Clayton Foley, 612 E. Court. Good evening, it appears to me that some of
the press as well as some of our elected city officials want this whole issue to be
the University of Iowa Animal Coalition vs. the city council. And as good as
story as it may seem it is simply not the case. Our complaints with USDA and
wildlife services, their work, or lack thereof, and their failure to include public
input into the decision-making process. And what I'm wondering is, why isn't
anyone concerned about that? Why isn't anyone questioning how a national
organization came into our city, performed grossly incomplete analysis, failed to
give the public proper notification and almost got away with it. Are we the
problem, I don't think so. We are concerned citizens who witnessed wildlife
services doing sloppy work, not just sloppy but lazy, lazy in that they didn't put
forth the time or the effort to really examine our area, and the effect the deer heard
had on it. Their environmental assessment was not specific at all. It could have
been applied to any community anywhere in the U.S. Just because an
organization has a big name and a reputation they don't have the right to cut
comers, to treat our community as if it were a product on an assembly line. There
is no question that I'm pleased that the deer slaughter is ceased for the time-being.
And that's been the goal since the beginning, to stop the needless killing of deer
by such atrocious means. But I'm not happy enough because now I hear that you
might want to hire private organization to do the dirty work. Before you even
consider this, let me remind you, the USDA was chosen because they had
reputation and experience in the field of sharp shooting, by choosing another
organization to carry through with the deer kill this season you'd be acting in
haste. Sacrificing many things just to get the job done, and a job done in haste
and carelessness is not a job done right. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Steven Kanner/Hello, my name is Steven Kanner from 1111 E. Burlington and just want
to touch on one or two things. The first thing is I wanted to thank you for your
decision made informally yesterday not to expand the Benton Street road, and I
did have a question. Was there an informal vote taken on that or was that just
informal consensus?
Lehman/It's really a consensus, we, you know how many folks really think we should do
this and we kind of get nods. There are no formal votes taken at informal
meetings, it's kind of a consensus, a feeling and there appeared to be a feeling last
night by the majority of council that this project could wait.
Kanner/OK. Well the main reason I think it's a good idea to wait is what I think a
number of reports have come through the paper stating that when you widen a
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road numerous studies show that it really hurts a neighborhood and hurts
community and so I think this should be the guiding force for any type of road
improvement. What it's gonna do to the neighborhood? We've seen the effects
through the decades of putting big roads through communities and dividing cities
and I guess the gross example of that is interstates through cities and just
destroying cities. And I think one of the strong points of Iowa City is it's a town
that's pedestrian friendly, it's intimate, and that we want to try to develop
neighborhoods and I think we should continue on that track and I think we should
keep that in mind when discussing Mormon Trek. Here we have a situation in
Iowa City where we're all concerned about downtown, but what are we doing,
we're trying to expand this big expressway so people can make it easier to avoid
downtown by expanding Mormon Trek and perhaps that's our only option but I
want us to look carefully at other options that could be beneficial to all the city
and to the downtown area especially and also be guided by the thought of what's
the best thing for the neighborhood for the community and I think that should be
our guiding light in how we develop roadways and move people around. One
thing that I read in reading the Gazette, they have 100 years of history in Johnson
County, I don't know if you've seen those the last few Sundays, it's really
interesting little tid bits. But they talked about the transportation systems that
were set up, they talked about the trolley that used to run out College Avenue, and
they talked about the inner-urban that used to run from here to Cedar Rapids. You
know I bet if we had those things today people would love it and it would make
Iowa City more of a destination town, not only to live at but just to visit too
because of those things. I think we should give some serious thoughts to those
kinds of solutions to our transportation needs. Thanks.
Lehman/Thank you. Steve last night we indicated we would have you during public
discussion give us an update on the deer situation.
Atkins/There' s really not much more to let you know really only the second day of the
decision by the USDA. As of the middle of this afternoon in our phone
conversation with representatives from the regional office the USDA Washington
based attorneys were consulting with USDA folks at the regional level. And they
had indicated that they would hopefully have some resolution to the issue within
the next couple of days and I would suggest to you that we sit tight and see what
they have to say.
Kubby/Well Steve, what, I know last night there were some council members who
wanted us to look into alternative organizations for the sharp shooting in
preparation of the USDA could not continue in a timely manner for the season.
What kinds of organizations would be out there that we would even inquire to?
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Atkins/I don't have a list Karen, I do know that at the time (can't hear) and the folks
were putting together who might perform the sharp shooting that there are
evidently private companies in Minnesota and Wisconsin that would do that kind
of work. It's not something we can put together rather quickly and that's why I'm
saying just wait a couple more days before we move on such a thing. And
whether they may be booked already.
Kubby/OK.
Lehman/Any further public discussion? Do we need a motion to accept correspondence
from Jay?
Karr/Yes please.
Lehman/Do we have a motion?
Norton/Move.
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, second by Vanderhoef to accept correspondence, all if favor.
All ayes. Motion carded.
Kubby/I guess I just want to say one last thing about some of the news reports about the
sharp shooting situation and some of the comments made from council members
about feeling oh kind of lost the right word I want but not liking that the animal
rights coalition has been involved and intervening in this way and I guess I feel
that that's, and people talking always about a minority, a local minority
interfering, and that's how communities work, I mean the majority never get in,
gets involved, none of us were elected by a majority of people in this town voting
on city council elections. Maybe we have a record turnout of 26% and were
happy about that. So that's how social change happens, that's how things get
shifted one direction or another is that groups of people organize and use tools
mostly legal sometimes illegal to make points and that that is what the animal
rights coalition agree or disagree with the content of it. They have a fight and that
I applaud people's efforts no matter what direction their trying to make changes in
in coming together and using the tools that are available to use to make things
happen.
Thornberry/Karen, I agree totally with the concept that they've put forth. I just wished
that all of the information that was disseminated by them was truthful and it is
not.
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Lehman/We're not going to get into a discussion of that.
Thornberry/I'm just saying I.
Lehman/Yea.
Thornberry/They can say what they want to say and have a right to say it but I wish it
were truthful.
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ITEM NO. 5a Public hearing on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning
designation of approximately 61.8 acres located south of Whispering
Meadows Drive from Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) to
Factory Built Housing Residential (RFBH - 59.25 acres) and Low Density
Multi-Family Residential (RM-12 - 2.55 acres). (REZ98-0011)
Lehman/This was before planning & zoning, in October it was denied, since then there
has been a conditional zoning agreement that has been negotiated with the city
staff. Staff has addressed some of the concerns that were apparently instrumental
in denial by planning and zoning. Public heating is open.
Jim Miller/Good evening, I'm Jim Miller, I'm representing Lake Calvin Development
and specifically the Saddlebrook Development. Thank you for taking the time to
consider our request. Brenda's gonna put up on the board a representation of our
Saddlebrook project to date so you can kind of get a feel and a flare of what we're
trying to accomplish out on the southeast part of town. A little bit of history since
the early 1990's we've been working on this project really we answered a call
from the city relative to the CHAS report back at that time. Asking for someone
to step forward with an affordable housing need that Iowa City identified. We
scoured the country, looked for a concept and came back with a manufactured
housing concept, talked to staff about it, we worked out an amenable agreement
relative to an RFBH zone back then 1994 was an annexation. And a part of that
annexation of our project was the Saddlebrook project and that was really the
birth. What we tried to do and are continuing to do and I think have been
successful is provide #1 a quality product, #2 is to promote community through
design, compact, accessible, pedestrian oriented, with a lot of open space, pond,
wetlands, and trails and recently a clubhouse that is due to open here in the next
couple of months. We also wanted to promote lifestyle through design and
architectural and community covenants and promote neighborhood. Utmost what
we wanted to do is create appreciation through manufactured housing which
traditionally has not been the case and that was our primary goal. We worked
with the city through the annexation process and some of you were around at that
time and it was a long process. Eventually what came out of our annexation was
over sizing a infrastructure in the east-west parkway that the land has been
dedicated for, 190 acres into a conservation easement which is open to the public
and were in the process of enhancing, interconnected trail systems that you heard
about last night and also a school site that we provided. We needed to do all these
things and still maintain the affordability because that's what we set out to do and
we have accomplished that up to this particular time. We are not the cheapest
housing alternative, don't want to be, don't claim to be, there's other kinds of
housing out there for that need. Conversely, were not the most expensive for
housing, site built stock takes care of the more expensive opportunities for folks.
We wanted to give people an opportunity for home ownership that wanted it,
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wanted pride of owning and the enjoyment of for savings and appreciation. And I
think we've accomplished our mission, we've developed a community that is a
premier development in the Midwest, we've been recognized on a national basis
as being one of the top 5% developments of manufactured housing nationally.
And we've invested in community and lifestyle through landscaping trails, sign
age, clubhouse and so on. We now want to continue with what we started out to
do now 8-9 years ago. We tried in 1995, we were asked to go ahead and come
back later on after your concept was became real and you showed us, city council,
and the city of Iowa City what you wanted to do and I think that we've done that.
There are many reasons why this rezoning is important to continue our
Saddlebrook concept, and really a good quality project requires a comprehensive
plan and it requires a commitment from everyone, our staff, the ownership and the
city. Over the first year of retail operation, we've identified a need to broaden the
diversity of our home. There's really two primary reasons why this rezoning is
important, #1 is in the diversity, once we start talking about diversity it was
floating around the room and it was really hard to grab a definition that everyone
understood, generally there were three definitions that different people had and
I'll try to address each one of those. We, from the ownership and management
perspective, identified diversity as reaching more people by way of housing types
and styles and therefore offering more flexible pricing options to meet a diverse
population. Basically what that means is that we have people that are interested in
Saddlebrook that can't afford to be there. Conversely, we have people that are
interested in Saddlebrook that we don't necessarily offer everything that their
looking for, i.e., more square footage, and more numerous, or larger home sites,
more comprehensive amenities and so on so forth. The comprehensive plan talks
about diversity as housing that would accommodate a larger population that is an
older, or a younger, or individual, or small families, or large families. The third
definition of diversity as we've heard through this process is one of bearing the
land use and altering types of construction materials and the result of that is
multifamily, single-family, one- or two-story structures and that type of thing.
And working through this rezoning process with the staff we feel we have touched
all three of those definitions. The flexibility of pricing which is the adversity #1
is some were interested as I said that couldn't afford we think that with this
rezoning we can offer a product that is more affordable to many more people. We
think with this rezoning we can incorporate larger sites, more living square
footage for those who desire and offer some of the amenities that people are
looking for. This rezoning will allow a greater mix of housing types and styles
and therefore more flexible price points. Through the diversity definition #2, to
accommodate a larger population, in kind of goes hand in hand with #1, and that
we will meet the needs of seniors, singles, small families, large families through
this diversity of housing through floor plans and lot sizes, home styles, home and
community amenities. And finally diversity definition/43, will accommodate the
varying land use in construction materials basically through incorporation of a
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Multi-Family zone within tlfis RFBH rezoned request that we talked about last
night and also in the surrounding areas which the south district plan talks about
diversity and the area, that we have RS-8 to the north, we have to the northwest an
RM zone, to the southwest an RM zone and to the direct south we have a RR1
zone and so there's a lot of diversity in the area. The long-range comprehensive
plan is essential to our development and the rezoning plays a big role in manage
(can't hear). The second really primary reason why we need to get started with
this rezoning is internal to us. The Saddlebrook concept is new and we
understand that it takes time for the concept to gain awareness. We continue to
monitor the absorption within our community to make sure that the maminum???
generated awareness campaign is not compromised by running out of home sites.
It generally takes two years to get sites to mark it and that 2 years is taken up
through design, platting and the general construction of those home sites. We
currently have platted 222 home sites, of those 222 home sites, 68 homes by the
end of February will have homes on them which is depicted by the overhead
there. We expect another 65 homes to be constructed in 1999 which will put the
number to 133. Then we need to make a decision, we can continue to build out
the ballots of the platted 222 home sites but there is a problem with that in that the
eastern section which is on the right hand of the drawing has some topography
problems, in that it needs a fairly substantial amount of fill dirt. We tried to
balance the site from the beginning, we're short on dirt, we can make that happen
but we need to get out into the market and actually buy dirt which is countered to
the affordability, that's one decision. The other decision is to meet the needs of
our construction schedule by foregoing those 50 sites and moving on to the
rezoning and incorporating the balance of the RFBH in a comprehensive manner,
and through that construction effort then we can generate the fill necessary and
then come back and fulfill the other 50 sites. We will be out of home sites under
this scenario in two years and so under our absorption that we feel it's gonna take
two years to really bring new home sites on line, we've invested heavily by
building awareness in the community, we don't want to get two years down the
road with good awareness in the marketplace, people liking Saddlebrook, liking
the concept, we're providing affordable home sites for people and then end up
with no home sites available and basically starting over. So it's imperative to
make that planning decision soon. It's interesting that we started the project with
the CHAS report and we continue to get support more effort recently completed
by this periodical which is the Maxfield report, which is a housing market
analysis and demand estimates for Iowa City, and it has some interesting points in
it. I'll just highlight just a few of those. The report calls for an immediate need of
1,580 housing units by the year 2000, in short-term development of 600 single
family units. The report calls for Iowa City to accommodate 70% of that need.
The report states that first-time home buyers are typically looking for homes in
the 70 thousand to
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Side 2
Miller/small condominiums in the $60-$75,000 dollar range and newly constructed
homes of $100-$125,000 dollar range are most in demand. Our project
accommodates moderate income folks, 51-80% of the county median income.
That is a payment of $500-$800.00 a month generally that's who we are
attracting. Those homes are $50-$80,000 in price range. It's interesting to note of
the homes in the urban area that I've sold in this price range over the last 4 years,
roughly ½ are condominiums, another 40% were older single family homes and
10% were zero lot lines. Interviews with local real estate professionals indicated
that there is a substantial shortage of quality homes for sale in this price range and
thus some of these households may be burdened by cost of having to update the
older homes to meet the price range. We are also attracting modest income, 81%-
100% of the median income. That's a payment of $800-$1000, that's the upper
end of this market. With a product of $80-$100,000 price range. Single family
homes accounted slightly for more than half of the sales over the last 4 years, zero
lot lines and condo's made up the other half. With greater diversity we can attract
the higher end of the low income which is the 31%-50% of median income.
Those folks can afford $300 ~ $500.00, I'm not sure that we can accommodate the
$300, but I think we can get to the $500. Those are $30,000-$50,000 product.
We also attract many seniors to Saddlebrook, in an interesting observation within
this report one of the ways to provide additional housing for the general
population is to develop adequate altemative housing options for seniors. Which
will free up some of the existing housing currently occupied by seniors for
younger households, and I think that we're doing that. One of the things that has
been talked about since we started this and we knew that this would happen to us
but it's generally a misperception of manufactured housing, going back to the old
trailer court image, manufactured housing is not that any longer. And I think it's
best said in this report given to the city of Iowa City and if I may I just want to
read you a couple of paragraphs from here.
Lehman/Jim, try to keep this as moving along. We know what your doing and we love it
but we don't need a whole history.
Miller/OK. Let me give you just one paragraph out of the three.
Lehman/Go ahead.
Champion/We commend you for it.
Lehman/Yes.
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Miller/Quality manufactured housing can however provide a less expensive altemative to
site built homes with many of the desired amenities of site built homes, that is 3
bedrooms, 2 baths, decks, garages, so on. Due to higher construction and energy
efficient standards and improved design options available over the last several
years, some of the higher quality manufactured homes are nearly impossible to
distinguish from site built homes. Generally, it talks about the quality of this type
of housing in today's market place is very very very good. In conclusion, I trust I
presented a case for the rezoning of our property, we have worked long and hard
with city staff and area neighbors while keeping the project imbalance. The CZA
in front of you provides protection for the neighborhoods and represents
comprehensive and proactive planning for the city. It is a document we can live
with, the rezoning request will accommodate the diversity needed within our
project and our community, no matter if you define diversity by economics,
accommodation, or construction style. We are all aware of the needs of affordable
housing options in our area and specifically Max fields challenge to Iowa City to
meet 70% of those needs. We are prepared to face the challenge and do our part
and too mitigate the housing shortage without subsidy to the taxpayer. Good and
planning and preparation will make it happen, we need to get started now to offer
more diversity today and to meet the housing needs in the future and I thank you.
Lehman/I'd like to ask you to make a couple more comments.
Miller/I'd be happy to.
Lehman/In the conditional zoning agreement there are things that we are not accustomed
to generally seeing in a subdivision, if you would like to highlight those things, of
things that you've agreed to do should the city decide to rezone this property.
Miller/
The primary, I guess disagreement that we had earlier on was relative to the
garage setback issue, we felt that this had been never done in Iowa City and that
we were willing to do it to some extent but we were told it was 100% or nothing
and so what we did is we made the decision to say then it's nothing. And so we
went to P & Z and said you need to vote, we need to know how you feel and we
got turned down basically for that reason. So that was really the primary thing
that we are now into an agreement with a lot of work and I think that Karin said it
very well last night in that in the spirit of cooperation it's something that we can
live with, hopefully it's something I know that city staff can live with and
hopefully it's what the city council can live with as well. The other types of
things found in the CZA with interconnected streets and trails, and green space,
and all of those things, that's what we're about anyway. Our project is about
offering community value and lifestyle so we really don't have too many
problems relative to that but the big thing along with the other is the density
situation. We do not want to stack houses on top of houses, that's not what were
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about, the RS-8 density requirements are fine with us, in fact we're building to
those standards today, we intend to build to those standards tomorrow. We did
not want additional impact on the city for utilities, for schools, for infrastructure,
or any of those things, we're currently zoned for RS-8, we'll use the property as
RS-8, we need the designation of RFBH to maintain the affordability of what
we're trying to accomplish. So that is in the CZA in front of you that will run
with the land forever and ever and hopefully that satisfies those concerns.
Champion/One of the things that I understood and I was very impressed was that most of
this thing is manufactured housing is being on this little island by itself, and yet
open to the community and be part of the community. And I think that makes it
much more attractive and I'm really pleased with that.
Miller/Well thank you.
Norton/Jim, I'd like to ask a question about the diversity issues, one way you get the
diversity as incorporated was single wide, I think originally you were doing
double wide structures.
Miller/That's right.
Norton/And now does that also extend to different stories, I didn't hear last night, I
guess you didn't have a chance to talk last night.
Miller/
What we're what we want to do is to accommodate the market, we want to
broaden the market because people are telling us that they want more than what
we're providing. And we kind of shot ourselves in the foot with the 222 home
sights that we have in that to protect the community we incorporated community
covenance and architectural covenance and their very very good. And people like
to live under that to protect their investment, but the thing we did is we restricted
ourselves and now we're committed to some 50 families that out there and I won't
go sideways on them. So, we're in a situation to create more diversity through
this rezoning process and because of the build-out we're there anyway. We have
the ability to do a lot of things manufactured housing now does story and a half,
two-story structures, we're doing the Multi-Family within there. We have the
ability to single section homes but that's not what we want to do, if we need to we
think we can vary the product to get down into that low the upper end of the low
and certainly accommodate the moderate income folks so we have a lot of things
that we can do but we want to stay flexible so we're not committing to do
anything that we have to do outside of just the general comfort of the community.
Does that answer your question?
Lehman/Yea. Yea.
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Kubby/Although I think at one point cause it was in a staff report, there was some talk
about making sure that there wasn't 60% of any one size of home. I can't
remember if it was on the same block or throughout the whole thing. I think it was
on the same block and so if the market and that's not in the CZA that kind of
percentage, so if the market dictates single-wides everywhere because that's what
people can afford, that's what people want, then that I assume is that what you
would do. I mean there are no conditions about that.
Miller/
Well, what we would do and what we want to do you know perhaps are two
different things, I think with the density restrictions that we're putting upon
ourselves, I basically don't see that happen statistically when you look at
manufactured housing it's going the other way and most people are wanting the
larger double-section homes so if you look over the last 5-10 years you'll see a
diminishing market of single-section homes and an increasing market of the
double-section homes. And in fact there becoming very very close from the
affordability aspect. So just because it's a single-section home doesn't necessarily
mean that it's a cheaper home. Our commitment is not to get down and really to
be the cheapest as I said, what we want to maintain is the integrity of what we're
doing but we do want to broaden the market so the scenario you have is possible
but in my opinion it's not very probable.
Kubby/And because of your, I mean this will be a question during the platting but I
assume that you would have, it may be that the lots are, the lot rent would not be
worth having the single wide unless it was the single wide and that it would
facilitate going to the double wide (can't hear) size of the lot.
Miller/That would certainly be the case, the other thing with on the retail side that I'm
learning, because the retail is fairly new to me I'm seasoned with other things but
retail is a learning experience on a daily basis. But one of the things that I know
to be true is that you can't make a project out of one sale, and so therefore if we
look for a sale today that would compromise future sales tomorrow that's the
wrong way to approach this. And we're over the first year of retail we've taken
the loss relative to holding the line on the discipline that we're maintaining but we
feel the rewards are forthcoming if we do that. People will get confident in what
were doing and will maintain the quality of what were doing and so therefore I
again I don't think this scenario is very realistic to really put one type in that's the
cheapest in town and just run with that.
Kubby/Well I do make sure that I do have a reality check with myself and with the
community because I mean you if there aren't conditions on that then the market
will dictate what you do. I assume because your going to allow that diversity in
that section and you don't want to change the rules in the current section so.
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Miller/One of the things that is self-discipline for us is that we have a heavy investment
already going into the quality that we're maintaining, and as you alluded to earlier
if we put in the cheapest it won't it won't pay for what we've already spent. And
so therefore we'd be upside down if we tried to do that.
Kubby/I have one other question if people don't mind I hope that we'll be quick and that
is that you made a comment about needing the fill from what part to fill in the rest
of the section that's already appropriately zoned and I mean you could no matter
what the zoning is over there you could still do that I mean cause those were
known factors on the front end.
Milled
That's correct. They were and what we tried to do is to balance the sight
internally, we thought we had enough dirt on the site to take it from here and put
it there, we did that to a certain extent but we're still short. With the development
of the balance the project will be balanced and so it's an affordability solution for
us. But it is true we are we can do it, we can go out and buy dirt to put in there
but it really straps us, it puts a burden on what we're trying to do.
Kubby/Thank you.
Norton/Jim, what's the total acreage of the whole?
Miller/We have 40 acres now in lot 4, there's about an additional 20 acres of RFBH that
we have and then 60 acres here.
Norton/The 222 that are plotted are how on many acres?
Miller/Their on 40 acres.
Norton/Their on the 40.
Miller/Yea. We're developing at about 5.5 and RS-8 development is about 5~5.5.
Norton/So the 222 are on the 40 acres, and then you have how much now that's this is 69
is under consideration here right.
Miller/60, about 60.
Norton/60, I'm sorry.
Norton/And then there's about another.
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Miller/About another 20-25 acres yea. That will accommodate about another 70 home
sights, it's directly south of this lot 4 this 40 acre and then depending on how we
plat out the balance of the 60 acres, (do you have a number Brenda on the 60?)
around 300 on the 60.
Norton/But that' s around 120 acres all together were talking about I guess. 40, 20 and
60.
Miller/40 and 20 and 60 that's correct about 120. So we're gonna end up with another
5 or 600 home sites with this rezoning and with the 20 acres that we have.
Kubby/Eleanor, manufactured housing can go in any residential zone fight? I mean it's
just a land lease that dictates that it has to be RFBH.
Eleanor Dilkes/There has to be an RFBH zoning though.
Kubby/But if, but you can put a manufactured house on an RS-8 zone can't you? It's
that you have to own the property.
Dilkes/Right.
Norton/(can't hear).
Kubby/And that's the reason it...
Miller/There's no longer a distinction between manufactured housing and real houses.
Kubby/So really the reason you need this zoning change to do what you want to finish
out your concept on this land is because of the land lease. Issue.
Miller/The affordability aspect of the RFBH zone that's correct.
Norton/Don't you remember the old (can't hear) home?
Champion/Right.
Lehman/No, I don't.
Champion/What are approximately is the cost of leasing the land per year?
Miller/The leasing is currently $225-$265. If you would compare that on a monthly
basis, on a monthly basis, the cost the average cost of a lot in Iowa City, I think
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again I'm going back to this report is $44,000 and if you amortize that over
certain number of years you come up with over $300 in principal and interest
payments as oppose to a $225-$265 lease payment. And I may mention to that
under the lease what you do is you have a protected environment through the
ability to do covenants. Which means a lot to a lot of people that your neighbors
will have a manicured lawn because we mow the lawn, there' s a clubhouse that
everyone can at no charge be part of, the trial system that' s incorporated and
maintained and there's a lot of advantages in a land leased community that are
non-economic related. And again it's very compatible with what we are trying to
accomplish here.
Lehman/Thank you.
Miller/Thank you.
Vanderhoef/I have one more question that we asked last night, it just had to do with the
properties that didn't have a garage and the off-street parking.
Miller/OK. The looking at the RFBH zone there was a question that driveways perhaps
were not even an option for people. The RFBH zone requires 2 off-street parking
per home site, so you can't you could probably park on the street but the
development has to provide 2-off street. Relative to internally what we're doing
we have a minimum requirement of 76 feet of driveway and the reason that we do
that and that's the cost of the development it's not a cost of the homeowner, we do
76 feet of concrete because we require people, maybe ask is a better word, that
you can't see their car from the street, we ask people to make sure that their rear
bumper is behind the front of their house. And that's one of our covenants. We
didn't feel that we could say that to people unless we provided them adequate
parking space. That's people without garages. And so everybody is required to
do that. Now if you have a garage then the CZA covers the restrictions relative to
the setbacks of the garages and we feel that we can live with that through the
diversity floor plans that are available.
Vanderhoef/Thank you.
Miller/Thank you.
Lehman/Would anyone else like to speak to this item?
Don Anciaux/OK. My name is Don Anciaux I live a t 2119 Russell Drive, I am a
member of the Wetherby Friends and Neighborhood Association, Jim has done an
excellent job with the project that he has so far, it's an excellent looking place, it
looks fine, it looks nice. But my concern is we have Sunrise Village on the
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southeast section of town, we have Saddlebrook expanding in the southeast
section of town, we have Bon-Air Trailer Court which eventually will probably
want to expand also, there's a trailer court at the end of I believe it's Stevens
Drive, is that Hilltop, or was that the one that was tore down? I can't remember.
In addition on the other side of the river we have the development on the south
end of town by Colonial lanes, we also have another trailer court down there.
Now, granted that Jim's housing is affordable but looks nice, and is more
expensive than the other kinds of housing available in the city it seems to me that
we should go with a zoning plan that was presented to the city council and
approved by the city council for the southeast district zoning. We have enough of
the manufactured housing, we have enough of the trailer courts, and we've got all
that we need in southeast Iowa City. If you look at the rest of Iowa City there's
only one other trailer court or manufact, there is no other manufactured in this
town, there' s one up by the interstate. Now, seems to me that if we're gonna be
presented zoning plans like the northeast zoning plan was just presented that
maybe if this is such a good idea we should put some zoning in there for
manufactured housing and trailer courts, the peninsula, we're talking about
developing that, maybe we need manufactured housing and trailer courts in those
areas also. To have all this affordable housing in one area of town does not do
this city justice. There are people who would like to live in the northern part of
town, the western part of town, and they would like to have affordable housing
also. They would like to be closer to their jobs. Putting all this affordable
housing and I think that an argument could be made it may not be as affordable as
it looks. Putting all this housing in one area of town is not diversity. It is not
representing our city, it is not providing our citizens with housing that they need
where they need it. I guess that's all I have to say. I would, my request is that
you stick with the present zoning in the southeast district that's in the plan and
leave it as it. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Jane Klitzka/I'm Jane Klitzka with President of the Grant Wood Neighborhood
Association. And I've been out to Saddlebrook and it's very nice, it really is.
However, I did spend hours with city staff working on the south district plan,
many hours up at the Grant Wood school along with a bunch of other people and
it kind of infuriates me, I mean we spend all this time, you ask us to spend time
working on this plan if you are to go ahead and turn it down. I mean and this is
like a kick in the face to me to spend time doing something for you people and
then well this isn't gonna work, we're gonna rezone it for something else, it's just
not fair. The other thing was when Saddlebrook was first brought up to be
designed, they had said that it was possible that they were going to be selling
some land with the manufactured home it wouldn't all be just leased. At the last P
& Z meeting he said No, I think somebody from Lake Calvin said they were not
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#5a Page 25
going to be selling land they would just be leasing it. So that was kind of
upsetting to us when you know we had hopes that some of the land would be sold
with the home, I mean there is a lot of people that would rather own the land as
well as the home. The other thing that bothers me is that yea there is green space
and open space, but there is no playground space. Now I know that there are a lot
of elderly people that are interested in this and they won't children but they'll
have grand kids. There are people living there that do have children, the only
park is Fairmeadows that is close to them, Fair Meadows is not a large park, we
have worked immensely on it trying to get more playground equipment and stuff
for there but it's still not a large park, it's barely large enough for our
neighborhood. So they need to take that into consideration as well you don't want
to see the kids playing in the streets or you know to me a child is not just going to
go out into a green space and stand there and kick a ball or whatever they need
something to do. Something to play on it just can't be green space and there you
have it kids go play you know. So those are my main concems about, I really
think it should be tumed down and see what they could do with what they already
have zoned and then maybe reconsider it. But at this point in time I think it
should be denied. Thank you.
Jerry Hansen/My name is Jerry Hansen and I live at 1237 Burns Avenue and I'm
chairman of the Wetherby Friends and Neighbors Neighborhood Association.
Along with Grant Wood and Pepperwood we have vigorously contested this
rezoning change in the past. I think that there's a piece of land that's already
zoned RFBH to the south of the 222 units that their talking about that is
untouched, unused. I don't know what their plans are for the future for this piece
of ground but it's already there, and it's already zoned, it's in the district plan.
There has been a lot of folks that have put in an awful lot of time working on
these district plans, there is one in place, one about in place, several being worked
on and I think that to go ahead and change such a vigorously debated issue is a
slap in the face to these people and I think they're going to sit back and wonder
why are we even doing this. I understand that things change as time goes along, if
there hasn't been much contestment I suppose things would get change. But I feel
this one is very highly debated. They talk about affordability in their units, I went
to Saddlebrook. I have absolutely nothing against the quality of their homes, I
have quite a bit of questioning to do on the deal. I've talked to several banks in
town and what they tell me is that if I were to take a $100,000 loan and put 20%
down on it for a unit at Saddlebrook that I could with the difference between the
rental you have to pay in the lease and the difference in the percentage of the
mortgage I could get a $145,000 loan on a conventional house. Which brings me
back around to why change the zoning from RS-8? Build conventional homes
out, sell them. If this does go through I would like to know what the south district
is going to get in return for losing their RS-8 zoning, it's gone. What are we
gonna get? Thank you.
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Greg Evans/My name is Greg Evans and I live at 4300 Sioux Avenue, which is a small
gravel road just outside of town. From our house you can see this development
that's going on over at Saddlebrook, it's kind of depressing you know enough as
it is that all this good fam~ ground is being used up but aside from that. I've been
a southeast side resident for all my life here in Iowa City and I plan on living here
until at least I retire. And I've noticed the boundaries change and the buildings
being built and the farmland sucked up through the years and I can remember
when Kmart was just nothing but a place where we used to hunt when we were
kids. And I know that we ourselves live fight on the border of the 2 mile, from
the, I can't think of the word,
???/in fringe
Kubby/in fringe
Craig Evans/yea in fringe, and I know that Iowa City is running out of ground very
quickly and unless they make some major steps and annex some more and expand
the boundaries their going to be out very soon and I guess I would encourage the
council to look at, here's what we have left what do we want to do with it and
make a wise decision like Don said earlier, as you come into town on Highway 6
from the east you look as your coming in you look to your left you have
Breckenridge, go a little bit farther look to your right you have Modern Manor,
and also Sunrise, go a little bit farther you have Bon-Air and Saddlebrook, go
even farther down to Kmart you have Hilltop Trailer Court. And all of these
facilities are located in one section of your town and I'm just not sure that that's a
good idea to combine all of this affordable housing, all this one style, one type of
housing in one area, I know that if you know push came to shove there could be
other areas found where this type of housing could be built and people would
probably like that because like what was said earlier they'd be closer to their jobs
and you know hey if I want affordable housing I don't have to live on the south
side, I can live on the north side, I can live on the west side, it's a diverse town.
And I guess I would just go with the recommendation that you folks you know
think about how much land you have left where we are and think about what you
really want to do with it and hopefully you'll deny this and keep it as it.
Lehman/Thank you.
Charlotte Bailey/Hello, my name is Charlotte Bailey and I live in the Wetherby Friends
and Neighbors Neighborhood. I haven't lived in Iowa City long enough to have
been part of developing the south district plan, but I was involved earlier when
this issue came before planning & zoning. When the neighborhood associations
came together to meet and to talk to the developers for both this property that' s
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#5a Page 27
being discussed tonight and another property. And I really want to pull back to
the letter that we put forward from the neighborhood associations to the planning
and zoning commission I believe it was attached with the documents that went out
before this meeting and I really feel like that when that meeting took place it was
nice that everybody came together and people were respectful of each other and I
think there was a lot of communication but I really feel like since that time there
hasn't been an effort to address the concerns of the neighborhood. There have
been a few changes, some dealings with staff on how to put together some a
conditional zoning agreement, but the option to do a planned overlay hasn't been
agreed upon and the when the presentation when people come have come in the
past anyway to meet with the neighborhoods what's really happened is they've
attempted to sell what their already planning to do. And not come in with the
intent that we can brainstorm together and come up with something that really fits
with the vision of the south district plan. And so what I would like to do is to say
the same thing that I said before that if the neighborhoods and Saddlebrooks
developers would work together something could happen, really positive for that
neighborhood, it may include changing a zoning, or doing an overlay, but it
maybe possible to maintain the existing zoning and still come up with something
that would work and ideally it would actually be housing that was affordable for
people I guess like us who still rent and live in the neighborhood and don't
necessarily want to not live in the neighborhood just to find affordable housing.
So, I guess that I would just ask that you look back at the issues that were brought
up, we took the time to rank them between what our primary concerns, secondary
(can't hear) concerns were, some of them, because that meeting was about two
properties at the time, some of them may apply more to the other property, but in
overall the zoning mix and the the open space I think were some of the things that
people really came together on and if if rather than being exclusively taking only
people who work for the city seriously about wanting to have input on how
neighborhoods develop not just properties but in building neighborhoods if they
could meet with the neighborhood with the intent to create something together
that would work I would respect that and possibly come to this group with a
different kind of request, but at this time I'd like to request that they deny the
application.
Lehman/Well we've heard obviously pro's and con's, we have, I think, a couple options,
first we will (can't hear) for the discussion of council we can't certainly do that.
.
t on zoning a~eement that has been
worked out since they denied it. Or and in that case I would presume Ka~n, give
me the high sign would we continue the public he~ng?
Norton/No.
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#5a Page 28
Lehman/If we decided to ask P & Z to consider the conditional zoning agreement?
Pardon me, maybe that's Eleanor's question.
Dilkes/Well I think we could yea, I think you want to continue the public hearing unless
Karin you think it's gonna been so, it's gonna take so long to go back to P & Z
that we just want to reset it, I don't have any feel for that.
Lehman/Or the other option is to deny the petition.
Norton/Well it was, I think I'm with Karin the idea was that if we thought there was
enough merit in this for to justify a session between ourselves and the P & Z that
we should continue the hearing for that to happen. I think there was some feeling
that shouldn't happen if, the question is how likely are we to change ours or their
minds at that point.
Thornberry/That's the best thing.
Norton/You shouldn't just send it back there to (cant hear) heating capriciously I guess.
Karin Franklin/Yea, I think it would be prudent to do as Dee is indicating and that is if
there are four of you who hold out any hope for this rezoning at all as for as the
applicants are concerned that you have your consultation with the planning and
zoning commission as you are required to do, at that point discuss the option of it
going back to the planning and zoning commission. Because we may be able to
resolve differences at that table you may be convinced by the planning & zoning
commission to follow their initial recommendation, I mean you just don't know
what the outcome of that meeting is going to be, so rather than just refer it back at
this point I think what you want to do is have that consultation with the
commission. And so that would be continuing the public hearing unless there is a
majority that is opposed to the rezoning.
Kubby/Well in terms of whether we should go forward or not, as much as I appreciate
the development I wish we could pick up this concept and move it north of
highway 6, and this is something I mean Jim and his colleagues have been kind of
guinea pigs in this town for many things and I appreciate that because that
annexation and rezoning was a long process and I think actually a good one but a
lot of discussion that came at that point having more of that zone and that it's so
difficult which terms to use but lower cost housing south of highway 6 that we
have not had the (can't hear), where with all of majority to rezone other properties
or accept certain concepts that would provide that spectrum of housing in other
parts of the community and I really feel until we have the ability as a majority to
do that as a body that we should deny this until we do this in other areas of town.
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Champion/I'm concerned with the same things that you are Karen, I wasn't, isn't there a
patch of land that's connected to this that is already has this zoning?
Franklin/It's north of.
Champion/And that's the land that needs all the fill. Is that correct? Are they about the
same amount of land?
Franklin/The existing Saddlebrook development both developed and undeveloped is east
of this request and it is zoned RFBH.
Champion/And how much land is that? That's not developed.
Franklin/That is not developed at this point, approximately 30, 25 acres.
Vanderhoef/And that's the part that's noah of the present Saddlebrook?
Champion/So that it's not exchangeable?
Franklin/It is east of the present Saddlebrook and south. It's not noah, north of the
present Saddlebrook is Bon-Air.
Vanderhoef/That's the RFBH up there also then.
Franklin/Right.
Norton/I'm in the position of wanting a discussion with P & Z but I don't want to I don't
want to suggest it if I have that I'd necessarily say that I'm gonna go in favor
because we haven't had that, and many of us haven't had that serious discussion
with P & Z that some of you were in the original annexation that brought this in, I
guess I have trouble seeing why we can't get the present RFBH area developed
rather than try to rezone new but I would kind of like to have a talk with them
because it seems to me they haven't seen the CZA and there are a number of
improvements in there in terms of (can't hear) activity in an ordinary
neighborhood. With just different types of of homes so I think they ought to see
that and we ought to talk about it I don't want to do that on the assumption that I
know aren't gonna end up when I get done with that (can't hear) to inform myself.
Lehman/I understand that, I think it goes without saying that we if we agree with P & Z
does not mean that we favor the project.
Vanderhoef/Definitely not. And I really would like to visit with P & Z.
Lehman/OK, we've got 2 who favor consulting, Dean, Mike.
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#5a Page 30
Kubby/So we need to continue the hearing.
Vanderhoef/Move to continue public hearing.
Thornberry/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, second by Thornberry to continue public heating. All in
favor. (6/1 Kubby/opposed)
Kubby/
Champion/Do we have 4 people who want to meet with planning and zoning?
Kubby/Yea.
(several people talking)
Norton/That' s entailed
Lehman/Motion is carried. We will try to schedule that at our new tool convenience, I
have no idea when that will be. I guess we'll just work with Karin from P & Z on
that.
Kubby/Could we I think, last time when we adjoumed we dealt with some scheduling
things, maybe we could attempt that for the senior center and for P & Z tonight,
unless it's really late.
Lehman/We can do that.
(several people talking)
Norton/Not necessarily sure where we're at now.
Lehman/I think it's very clear by meeting with P & Z in no way indicating will that we
will approve this, we're just saying it's worth talking about.
Karr/Mr. Mayor, also point of clarification to continue public hearing you need a specific
date.
Lehman/Yes.
Vanderhoef/OK.
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#5a Page 31
Karr/I'm sorry.
Lehman/You can't defer it indefinitely ha.
Kubby/Well is two weeks really reasonable Karin?
Franklin/How about 4 weeks.
(several people talking)
Lehman/No
Kubby/So maybe we should say the February 23rd.
Franklin/Thank you.
Lehman/February
Kubby/That's the toot, that's not, that's skipping one meeting, that's a month from now.
Lehman/Is that a reasonable time four weeks.
Karr/Well you can continue it again if your not ready.
Lehman/Oh OK, we can continue it again.
Karr/Yes, you just have to have a date set.
Lehman/Did you say February 23rd (can't hear).
Franklin/That's what I said. Thank you.
Lehman/That wasn't the 2nd, Marion you missed that.
Karr/I'm sorry.
Lehman/All fight.
Thornberry/I also thought that was a given.
Lehman/(can't hear) is there.
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#5a Page 32
Karr/I apologize.
Norton/Well don't we have a session that night, don't we have a regular?
Karr/Yea, but your cont, your fight now we are setting we are a date for the continuance
of the public hearing which would be a formal meeting date.
Norton/Oh I see it would be on a (can't hear) not for the meeting with P & Z right. I
thought I was gonna be back roaded there for just a minute.
Karr/I would hate to have that happen.
Jerry Hansend Is it appropriate or is there a way that the neighborhood associations be
included in that meeting?
Lehman/It's a public meeting.
Vanderhoef/A public meeting.
Lehman/Absolutely, I don't know how much time will be allocated for public comment,
but certainly it's a public meeting.
Kubby/It's a, yea.
O'Donnell/Cause we might save ourselves a meeting here if everybody can get at the
same table at one time.
Lehman/I don't disagree with you for (can't hear).
Norton/Might as well try that.
Thornberry/(can't hear)
Kubby/You might need to talk with the mayor about arranging that cause normally when
we meet with boards and commission it's a public meeting so the public can be
present but there's no interaction unless there's special accommodations made and
the mayor is the person who makes those so you should talk to... right.
(several people talking)
Lehman/I don't see that as being a problem. Are we going to continue or do you want to
take 5 break?
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#5a Page 33
Vanderhoef/Let's take a 5.
O'Donnell/Definite break.
Karr/So did we have an all aye for the public hearing (can't hear).
/ Yes.
Lehman/How did you miss that?
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#5b Page 34
Item #5b. Consider an ordinance designating 2 South Linn Street as an Iowa City
Historic Landmark. (First consideration) (Harmon Building).
Lehman/Have a motion.
Vanderhoef/Moved for consideration.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, second by O'Donnell. Discussion. Well I'm certainly,
I'm sure there's gonna be some discussion. Karen go ahead.
Kubby/(can't hear) wanting starting discussion, I was trying to lay back to let other
people have a chance to speak. If anyone has something, I need I need to, I just
sat down so I need a couple seconds to beam up here. Anybody else has besides.
Lehman/I'm going, I'm not going to support this designation not because I don't feel the
building is a significant building but because of a process is that this council and
the city has been going through among ourselves, with our neighbors at the
university with the downtown streetscape plan all of which are coordinated and
required the building of a parking ramp to replace parking that will be removed
from Iowa Avenue. I guess my overall feeling is that the harm cause by the
removal of this building which I think is there is not as significant as the benefit
that would be gained to the community by the improvements we had been
planning for the downtown and the expenditure of large sums of money which we
have already made. Had this come up perhaps 2 years ago it may have changed
the way council approached this, I certainly believe that we will be looking at an
inventory of the downtown from a historic preservation standpoint so this sort of
thing does not come up again but I think it's come at a point in time that I think
we must move forward with what we have already started. So I will support it.
Norton/I want to second that Ernie, I don't.
Lehman/I said that wrong, I said I would support it, I will not support the designation.
Norton/Well it comes to no surprise that I won't either, but because it's a tradeoff
situation as you indicated in terms of trylng to, I think the gain we get from trying
to remove as much parking as we can from Iowa Avenue and restoring that to
some of its earlier dignity, not to mention beauty is a certainly worthwhile goal. I
think we've noted tonight also the senior center does have need not only space,
but parking. I, there are a number of downtown churches that need the additional
parking, their busy weeknights and other times and Sundays and they need the
space, and all things concluded I think the tradeoff is certainly worth it. I guess I
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#5b Page 35
think even had this been identified earlier I'm not sure that I wouldn't have to
choose improving Iowa Avenue and losing the Harmon Building I guess I would
have made the same choice I'm gonna make now.
Lehman/Other comments.
Vanderhoef/I'll ditto that and I'll go forward with the survey by our historic
preservation. I think this is real important to know what we have down there and
what we see as possible saving of certain structures down there in the future. It's
a good piece of information to have and it will be acted upon on a cases by case
even after the survey is done. But I think the survey is terribly important.
Kubby/Well I'm going to be voting in favor of the designation, and I think there's there's
no doubt in anybody up here's mind that the Harmon building meets the criteria
for landmark designation I think that that's been very clear and having the historic
preservation ....... (End of tape 99-14).
Tape 99-15
Kubby/balancing the use of the land and so in making and everybody knows that I'm not
for the parking lot, or the parking facility. And so I then went back to all of our
plans that we have that kind of help guide us and you can find probably arguments
and plans to put you in many different directions but I guess I want people to
know that it's important that we don't just vote on these documents, that we
actually use them to make policy decisions. So I went to the city's comp plan and
looked in it again to help you know guide, even though I'm not for the parking lot
there are things in the comp plan that would guide me one way or another. And
just read looking at the city vision statement and in the first page of the comp plan
is says as "Iowa City grows we will strive to preserve the character and identity of
the community while guiding the creation of compatible new areas." It also says
in the overview that we have a record of preserving our heritage and I guess I'd
like our record to be a little more beefed up. And in the section on Iowa City the
community the comp plan says "In addition to new construction several historic
buildings have been rehabbed within downtown, and as a result downtown
contains eclectic mix of both historic and modern structures." And I guess I don't
want that balance to be overturned by saying yes to something that would destroy
another historic building. And that we have all agreed that having some historic
preservation in our community is an economic development issue and is
something that helps create vitality in a community. So it was one plan that I
looked at. So then I went to some other plans that we have, I spent a lot of time
doing historic preservation plan, there all these sections, and there's a section here
on downtown and I mean saving grace from all of this is that we will get a
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#5b Page 36
downtown survey that we might not have gotten so quickly without the sacrificial
land of the Harmon Building. But the historic preservation plans certainly
dictates that we do what we can to preserve historic structures. And then finally
the last thing I looked at because everyone talks about how the Iowa streetscape
plan, or the Iowa Streetscape project dictates that we do the parking facility. And
the plan certainly doesn't dictate that, it's the decision, the conscious decision on
this, on the part of this body to connect those two issues and there are rationale
and logic to that I just happen to disagree with that. But there are some things in
the Iowa Avenue streetscape plan that talks about the historic nature of
downtown. On the intent section of the plan it says "It is intended as planned to
establish a vision for quality urban redevelopment that provides figurative and
literal connections to the city's history, it's environment and it's people." And
this is one of those literal connections that is physically right on the comer one of
which the streets is Iowa Avenue. It also says in one of the general objectives that
we need to establish an appropriate image for the corridor emphasizing the
connections of students and citizens to the city's history, it's environment, and
university. And city's buildings is a physical manifestation of being connected to
the city' s history. So when I look at those things and I know that the timing is an
issue for people and it really wasn't really anything that was the fault of historic
preservation commission, it was a position that we put the community in by none
of us, including myself demanding that we understood the historic significance of
both Eastlawn and the Harmon building before discussing the parking facility and
understanding what it is more concretely, besides just saying well those are old
buildings that are really nice. But understanding historically in terms of the plan,
the historic preservation plan, what those buildings meant, well, or speaking of
them as past tense already because I feel like it's inevitable But to understand
what those buildings meant to the city before we made these decisions, so I feel
like we, including myself, put the community in this position. And I guess the
last thing I want to say is that I'm a definite minority in not (fooling, can't hear)
that the vitality of downtown is dependent on this parking facility. That I really
have a very different vision of how we can squeeze more out of the parking we
already have and the available techniques we have to us for parking downtown
and to expand and create different investments in other kinds of transportation
systems in the community and I know people say, Karen that's pie in the sky, it's
the car culture, it's so pervasive, but we perpetuate that car culture with our
investments and this $12 million dollars for this parking facility is another
inability of that car culture being a prevalent one in our community and how
people get downtown cause that's where we're choosing as policy makers to make
investment. And I disagree with that, and I'll be voting yes very enthusiastically.
Norton/Emie, I'm going to respond a couple of those if I can. The first one, another one
of our documents, one of the most important things is to do is to protect your
scenic vistas (can't hear), your historic vista, and the vista of Iowa Avenue is one
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#5b Page 37
of the most important in this community that has been entirely butchered in my
judgment by the parking in that street. Making that whole street block the parking
lot.
Kubby/Great???
Norton/The other thing I want to point out is that we are the thing is being created here is
not all 12 million is in the parking ramp Karen, only for partially for that. The
structure that is planned is I think going to add greatly to the beauty of downtown,
I can't see much beauty to the chain link fence and to the parking lot in the middle
of downtown. And the parts of the Eastlawn building that are that will be ripped,
reflected in the new one the new one will have a clock tower on it, and I think it
will be a tremendous asset to the community. So I think the tradeoff is perfectly
justified.
Champion/Well I I I agree and it's a very hard decision for me because I am in sort of a
historic preservationist. But I think part of preserving history is not always in
favor of what needs to be done. I think the decision that it's a car culture was not
probably made by us it was probably made 30 years ago or 40 years ago when
they decided to do an interstate system. And railroads do not connect
communities anymore, that's the only way for people to get to Iowa City is by car.
And frankly, I drive my car a lot. But I really have mixed feelings about voting
against this but I'm going to and I think it's going to be an asset for downtown to
have this parking structure, to redo Iowa Avenue, I think it's gonna be beautiful,
it's gonna make downtown more vibrant, and I love downtown and I just think
this is essential to keep it the way it is.
O'Donnell/And I will not supporting this, were talking about our entrances to our city,
and improving them, and I agree with Dee that Iowa Avenue is an eyesore. And
I'm not about to remove parking from Iowa Avenue and not replace it. So I will
not be supporting this but I will support the survey.
Thornberry/Well I think it's pretty well all been said, but there's been a need for parking
on the north side of town for a long long long time. And with this parking facility
which doesn't really much look like a parking facility from the outside, perhaps
some of the parking problems on the near north side will be if not alleviated at
least somewhat helped giving parking places for the for our residents on the near
north side closer to the downtown. I will be voting against this also. As did the
planning and zoning by a vote of 1/5 it looks like this will be a what 1/7.
Lehman/I've got one more vote than you know about then.
/ That's right.
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#5b Page 38
Thornberry/Or 1/6.
Vanderhoef/Whose that extra?
Lehman/We have just demonstrated that (Thornberry talking also, can't hear) glasses are
half full and some are half empty.
Thornberry/Steve thought (can't hear)
Karr/Mr. Mayor, can we accept correspondence.
Kubby/Moved.
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Oh, moved by Kubby, second by Vanderhoef. Motion carded.
Lehman/Item C. is an item relating to Oaknoll residence, I must excuse myself from this
because I have a conflict of interest, Mr. Thornberry. (Mr. Lehman leaves room)
Thornberry/I'll go with you.
Lehman/No, you have (can't hear) to stay.
Thornberry/The next item, this is new to me.
(people talking)
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#5c Page 39
ITEM 5c. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately
0.2 acres located at 703 Benton Court from Medium Density Single-Family
Residential (RS-8) to High Density Multi-Family Residential (RM-44).
(REZ09-0016) (First consideration)
Vanderhoef/Move for consideration.
O'Donnell/Second.
Thornberry/It's been moved and seconded, will there be any comments.
Champion/I, this is the Oaknoll, I still would like to see us do some other consider some
other way to do this for Oaknoll. I think there's general agreement to all of us that
they should have their parking lot. I object to changing the zoning to do it. And I
just think things I'd like to talk about. For instance, that 3rd designation that
Karin Franklin came up with last night, but also somebody needs to explain to me
what zoning (can't hear) are and why this can not be a zoning variance.
Karin Franklin/A zoning variance can always be sought anytime you are in conflict with
the zoning ordinance a property owner has the right to seek a variance. However,
a variance by law has to meet certain tests, one of those tests is that you can not
make a reasonable use of the property under the zone. And I don't believe that
you could argue that for this particular property which is zoned RS-8 you could
not make a reasonable use of this property. There's nothing physically limiting
about the property such that you couldn't build a duplex on it, and have a
reasonable use of the property so if you can not meet all of the tests which are
reasonable use, public interest, and that the problem with the, or the variances in
the public interest in the problem with the property's not of the property owners
own making, if you can't meet all of these tests then you can not get the variance
by law. So, just meeting, not being able to meet that one of you can not make
reasonable use of the property I think negates the possibility of getting a variance
in this case.
Kubby/But there is some possibilities if we directed staff and planning and zoning to
look at it to throw situations into a special exception process which was that 3rd
option that Karin outlined last night so that the board of adjustment plays a role in
where you donst want to change the zoning code so it applies everywhere, you
don't want to change the zone but it still makes sense, and there is a public
process involved where all the parties can come together and the board of
adjustment will look at does this negate or cause negative aspects to the
neighborhood and so it gives everyone a chance to be heard through the public
process with the board of adjustments special exception. And I would like us to
either deny this and throw, and direct staff to explore that possibility of board
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#5c Page 40
special exception or to table it indefinitely or defer it indefinitely whatever's
appropriate and still do that direction to staff about special exception. In the
meantime, because we've given direction to staff the parking lot could remain in,
that land could be remained and used by Oaknoll as a parking lot. And I assume
if we felt that this was going to take a while because of other things planning and
zoning is looking at that we could give them another year temporary permit, or
whatever we would need to do because we were in process in exploring this. I
would love us (can't hear).
Norton/Well I I certainly would vote, as I said last night, I want to see them get there,
keep their parking but I'm not in favor personally of making this kind of zoning.
When I regard this as a spot zoning change to accomplish that goal so but I still
think we need to explore other possibilities that has been alluded to here. I know
the P & Z kind of asked the staff to that and weren't successful but maybe there's
still a shot that we can find a way to get the meet both needs not to rezone but to
provide the, let them continue the parking lot. I would certainly move, I think
we'd probably postpone it indefinitely is the proper term, isn't it. To tabling it.
Dilkes/To table it indefinitely.
Norton/Postponing it indefinitely doesn't isn't the right motion. I could make that
motion but.
Champion/Right and I would.
Karr/Defer indefinitely.
Champion/And I don't want to deny it cause I don't want them to have a no answer. So
that's why I would like to defer.
Norton/Yea, but I say it might only come to that the denial, I mean we'll see what
happens. This will buy us some more time to try to study it figure out a way to
accomplish (can't hear).
O'Donnell/How long can in the parking lot remain if the way it is Karin?
Franklin/As long as, I think reasonably as long as the city council or somebody on the
council is deliberating about a solution to the problem that it can remain a parking
lot. We can just as Karen has indicated basically not enforce anything against
Oaknoll, now I do not think it would be appropriate for you to defer this
indefinitely, let it drop, and just keep this as a covered (can't hear) parking lot.
Kubby/No. No.
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#5c Page 41
(people talking)
Thomberry/Car nabbing, you read my mind.
Franklin/Yea I did. Yea. I guess I'd like some direction from the council in terms of the
special exception Karen, last night what we talked about was a different, zoning
category which would allow uses such as Oaknoll via RS-8, RM-12, I think you
suggested. And then the special exception would be for Oaknoll to expand into
703 Benton Court. That was the special exception that was noted in that proposal.
Probably what that would do, is if we set up a zone amendment for continuous
care facilities for the elderly and say RM-12 zone there would be certain
requirements that would be attached to that so that it would fit in any continuos
care facility would fit in an RM-12 zone. Those kinds of requirements usually
would include possibly either larger lot sizes or more of a setback than Oaknoll
has, such that Oaknoll may be then made nonconforming through this exercise.
Thomberry/But existing nonconforming.
Champion/But existing.
Franklin/Always to be nonconforming it has to be existed by definition. You can't do
it...
(people talking)
Franklin/So, if, I mean think that that is a point to consider in terms of your all trying to
reach a resolution in which everyone is happy. Which we're always trying to do.
That may or may not make everyone happy, Oaknoll, it comes nonconforming, it
is different legal status, yea.
Champion/It'll make some of the people happy most of the time.
O'Donnell/Karin, I called you today and asked you if we could do this RM-44 with
conditional use or something and you advised me against that.
Franklin/Right. I said no. Yea.
O'Donnell/I personally do not think this is an attempt to take over the world with RM-44
zoning, I think this is a small lot, each approachment to the city council to change
zoning is going to be looked at at an individual basis, they have to go through the
same process, we have the same ability to say yes or no. I do not want these
people to go on a year by year stand with maybe you can park there and maybe
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#5c Page 42
you can't. I would like to see this thing resolved but because we grant one small
lot this zoning does not mean that this an open door policy for RM-44.
Franklin/No, it does not, you are not required at any time to rezone property. You have
to justify your yes's more than you have to justify your no's on rezoning.
O'Donnell/But each one has to go through the process?
Franklin/Absolutely.
Kubby/But as I had said multiple times and especially last night that by saying yes to
RM-44 in this particular situation it does set the stage for making it more difficult
to say no, even though legally you don't have to justify it, it just sets the stage and
sets the atmosphere, and even though Mike you said you might be strong and not
vote for it in the future that and my experience on council has been that that's not
how things come down with the majority and that we're setting the neighborhood
up for something here that we should do. If it's gonna happen, it should happen
comprehensively for Oaknoll's needs long-term instead of small segments.
O'Donnell/I agree.
Norton/Yea.
O'Donnell/Well what I said is that I don't think it has anything to do with being strong
and not voting for it in the future, I think what we do is look at each case on an
individual basis and vote that way. I don't have a problem with this, you can put
up a duplex on this lot as it is right now, and with RM-44 you can put up a 4-
plex.
Champion/But if we start from the basis that all of us want to help Oaknoll keep their
parking lot, if we start from that (can't hear).
O'Donnell/That's what we want.
Champion/Then certainly you will give the three of us who are a little hesitant to change
this zoning the opportunity to explore another possibility.
Vanderhoef/I think we can probably move forward and try one more time to find
something that will serve the needs of Oaknoll and the neighborhood at this time.
And I guess I will go with the three of you to defer and take one more look at this.
Champion/Great.
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Kubby/Although one thing I guess I want to remind people about is that this is not a
parking lot that has been there from the beginning, this is one that was (can't hear)
temporary relief because of the expansion of the Oaknoll and the need to replace
parking that was going to be disrupted during the rebuild and so I just want to
make sure people who don't know the details of this it's not like a parking lot
that's been there forever. It has created some relief for the neighborhood, for
employees and visitors to have that extra parking and they vow to maintain that
and the neighborhood seems to agree with that but don't want to have the zoning
change. But I just want to make it clear that it it was a short, at the beginning it
was a short term parking lot to relieve during construction.
Vanderhoef/I think this is why the neighborhood has appreciated it because it has served
a need to get cars off of the street and allow the people in and to get out of
Oaknoll for all their things, whether their coming to work there or whether their
coming to visit their, or to do special programs the whole scene that I see out there
right now in senior care facilities is changing. It's much different than it was 20
years ago, and the services that they offer and the dignity that they continue to
offer, and to keep people into their own units as long as they can and the services
they have to provide to do that create more traffic to that building. However, it's
still not anywhere near what the traffic would be if this were an RM~44 apartment
building.
Norton/Where do we stand (can't hear)
Thomberry/Well I don't know if you comment.
Robert Downer/Excuse me, I'm, go ahead.
Norton/No, no, I just where we stand procedurally.
Kubby/There's a motion on the floor and were discussing it. The deferral indefinitely.
Norton/There, is there a motion to defer yet.
Karr/No, there is not.
Thornberry/No.
Kubby/I thought you made, oh I guess it was.
Norton/Well I would like to, before we proceed I'd like to get a motion to defer on it.
Kubby/We can hear this comment and then we can get a motion.
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#5c Page 44
Thornberry/Let's hear it. Let's hear it.
Robert
Downer/Very briefly. With regard to the three matters that were suggested by
staff as at least possibilities yesterday and the one commented on tonight going to
an RS-8 or RM-12 zone something of that nature with special exceptions, this
would not work at all as far as Oaknoll is concemed because of these setback
requirements and the creation of nonconforming uses. The specific problem that
that creates as far as Oalcnoll is concerned is that the arrangements that Oaknoll
with the residents over there permit those persons to live in that facility for the
balance of their lives. There is one person who is there right now who has lived
there for 30 years. If there was a fire, for example, or tornado or something that
demolished a substantial part of that facility and it couldn't be rebuilt because of
the setback requirements there would be no way that Oaknoll would be in a
position to honor it's contracts with those residents because it couldn't rebuild to
build a facility in which to house them. So while I'm all for everyone's best
efforts in trying to solve this problem and I appreciate the constructive approach
that everyone has taken with respect to that. I did feel it necessary to put on the
record at this point that that one possibility is something that would cause serious
hardship potentially here and would be much worse frankly than a denial.
Kubby/Eleanor, is the rebuild rule is that 61% destruction or 100% destruction?
Dilkes/I think it's a 100% of assessment.
Kubby/Including your foundation.
Thornberry/So if you have 50.
Dilkes/No, it's 100, Karin it's 100, isn't it, it's a 100.
Kubby/So the risk to Oaknoll is very minimal because (can't hear).
Downer/Well, it's still, it's still a serious risk and it's something that we would not
accept.
Thomberry/We cannot conform you on that (cant hear).
Downer/That's right. And there have been in excess of $12.5 million dollars expended
on that property on the basis of the ordinance that is in existence at this time and
that's not a solution that will work.
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#5c Page 45
Champion/Are you saying that if your, if Oaknoll is 100% destroyed by fire or tornado
your going to rebuild, it would rebuild exactly the way it is now.
Thornberry/It couldn't be.
Downer/It could not be.
Champion/I know but what I'm saying if you had that choice, would you, I mean don't
you think over 20 years the way things are built has changed?
(several people talking)
Downer/It would not, as far as the structure is concerned it would not be built that way,
but where your talking about having to be two feet back from the property line for
every foot of height of the building you could not physically create a structure
there that would house the number of people that are there at this time.
Regardless of what kind of design you were involved with. I'm sure it wouldn't
be built exactly the same.
Champion/OK, just wanted to clarify that.
Norton/It may be that we can't get there isn't there an order to defer? That's what I'd
like to do.
Kubby/Yes, I mean if you want to explore this knowing the (can't hear) from that.
Norton/I'd like to explore even though that option he made suggested ruled out and we
may find that we're gonna have to come back and see where we stand but I would
like to defer, I'm just not quite there yet.
Champion/Are you making a motion?
Norton/I'm making a motion.
Champion/There's a motion on the floor though.
Thornberry/There is a motion on the floor.
Norton/What do you want to do, deal with that one first?
Thornberry/I've also talked to staff and they don't see any possibility.
Dilkes/I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm confused, is there a motion to defer on the floor?
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#5c Page 46
Thornberry/No, not yet.
Kubby/There was a motion.
(Several people talking)
Karr/Once a motion has seconded it has precedence over first consideration, yes it does,
it is appropriate if you want to, if you don't want to.
Champion/We did it. OK.
Thornberry/But we're still in discussion.
Karr/Well you don't.
Norton/Discussing the substitute moves??? (can't hear).
Karr/Absolutely.
Thornberry/Otherwise I haven't had my chance yet.
Champion/You haven't.
Kubby/We can talk about the issue ofdeferral.
Thornberry/We have. And the reason I would like to see this rezoned RS-44, RM-44
rather is for the exact reason and I don't see any possibility from talking to staff of
anything else other than a delaying lactic for a year. And again Oaknoll deserves
the one year on the ropes. Karin you have some information for us.
Franklin/Well I just had a little brain thing.
Thornberry/Sorry to hear that.
Franklin/I know, me too. When we were talking about special exception I was aiming
for clarifications direction. One of the thoughts was whether we look at special
exceptions to allow parking in other zones. Which if you do through the special
exception process then your looking at a very circumspectly and some of the
issues that we raised about the effective rezoning and the gaps that you would
have in the other zone in terms of building, may or may not be issues. I don't
know, I'm not saying at this point that we are going to support the staff, the staff
will support that because it is just a thought I had but it may be an option.
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#5c Page 47
Kubby/Right, I was thinking about that too and that if we end up deferring this we could
have you explore what would be more functional for situations like this. A
change in how these kinds of facilities are dealt with in the zoning code
comprehensively or because of parking issues. And that maybe we get some
options for special exceptions, and with the pros and cons of each, how, what
kinds of risks there are.
Franklin/I mean I offer this just because it is apparent to me that you got a 3-3 split here.
Kubby/And it will get denied.
Franklin/And there is also a desire to make this succeed.
Thornberry/Right now, I believe it's a 4-2.
Franklin/I may be reading you wrong. You just do what you want.
Kubby/Karin thank you.
Norton/I do understand (can't hear)
Thornberry/We've got.
Champion/(can't hear) mad at us.
Norton/The delayed question is they've it's a temporary thing to start with and I don't
understand that this is not where always where this parking came into being as
Karen said to accommodate them during the period of construction so it was kind
of imperative that they stumbled into the solutions of their property. So I think
another months, 2 months, 6 months whatever it may take to try to shake this out
is not at all unreasonable I don't see that there are any bigger tender hooks that
there ever were.
Thornberry/OK now what do we do with anymore questions?
Karr/Could I ask for a clarification? Motion on the floor is to defer indefinitely.
Thornberry/All right, that was the motion.
Norton/Not a specific date but indefinitely.
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Karr/That's correct, that's the motion. So it's a motion, so if is the discussion is ended
the mayor Protem would entertain a voice vote.
Thornberry/I was wondering if there was anymore discussion at all, no.
Kubby/It's that the deferral incorporates the directions of staff.
Thornberry/I believe we all want to see more parking available to Oaknoll, is that not
correct.
?????/correct.
(Several people talking)
Thornberry/So we're directing staff to build some parking? And make it legal.
Champion/And make it legal.
Thornberry/This will be a voice vote?
Karr/For a motion to defer indefinitely yes.
Thornberry/Motion to defer going once, all ayes, motion carries. Next item is to find the
mayor.
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#5d Page49
ITEM 5d. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING
DESIGNATION OF 21.26 ACRES LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF
NAPLES AVENUE FROM INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL (CI-1) TO
SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY ZONE-INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL
(OSA-CI-1). (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Norton/Moved adoption to (can't hear)
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, second by Vanderhoef. Discussion.
Kubby/I will be voting no on this because I don't believe the intent of the sensitive areas
ordinance is to help, the intent of the ordinance is to allow judgment in some
cases with some of the slopes, and apparently my judgment in this case is not to
allow the encroachment onto some of the slopes in that area be that would allow
more area for development that I would rather preserve that slope especially since
we got some confirmation that that slope is not ingraded but there has been (can't
hear) but it's not been graded. I'm OK with the area that had some disturbance to
it but I don't want that middle area done anything to it so I'm going to be voting
no.
Thornberry/There were 3 areas there A, B, and C. A has been done, B is such a minor
slope it's self built up it's really not not a problem for me to vote in favor of this,
but C I would not I would not vote to.
Norton/I want to be sure that the P & Z considered this, they were aware that area B had
not been touched or not been disturbed at that point.
Thomberry/C.
Lehman/B.
Kubby/B & C.
Vanderhoef/B.
Lehman/I think they do.
Franklin/Yes, Planning & Zoning was aware of that, Planning & Zoning went out to the
site.
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#5d Page50
Norton/And they so they at least somebody I think for example one negative was
somebody who wanted also to exclude B didn't they?
Franklin/Correct.
Norton/But the other, of the majority, the great majority of them went along with
excluding only C.
Franklin/That's right.
Thornberry/All but one, all six people did.
Norton. OK.
Lehman/Further discussion. Roll call. Motion carries, Kubby voting no.
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#5e Page 51
ITEM 5e. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A FINAL PLAT OF
BOYD'S FASHIONABLE ACRES, AN 11.51 ACRE, 16-LOT
RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF
ROCHESTER AVENUE, EAST OF POST ROAD, AND WEST OF MT.
VERNON ROAD. (SUB98-0030)
Thornberry/Move adoption of resolution.
Dilkes/Mr. Mayor, I'm sorry there's been a request by the applicant for deferral pending
a completion of a legal papers.
Lehman/Do we have a motion to defer?
Kubby/Until?
Dilkes/Until the 9th.
Thornberry/So moved.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, second by O'Donnell to defer until February 9th, is that
right? Discussion. All in favor. All ayes.
Karr/Do we have a motion to accept that correspondence?
Thornberry/So moved.
Norton/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, second by Norton to accept correspondence. All in
favor. All ayes. Motion carries.
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#6a Page 52
ITEM 6a. PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND
ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PARK
MAINTENANCE BUILDING IN NAPOLEON PARK.
Lehman/This is a project we've talked about for some time. Public heating is open.
Kubby/I have some questions for Terry, I can't recall what the original construction cost
was and if I'm sure that it was less than this but wasn't there some additional, this
facility would do more than we originally talked about too right? Refresh me, I
guess that's a better word for it.
Terry Trueblood/The original estimated cost was about $700,000 and is now $786,000 I
believe it says in there. The reason it is projected to be more costly at this time
because of the site work considerations that were run into. More money for the
site work than originally anticipated, that's primary reason for it being more
costly at this time.
Kubby/Because of the slope there?
Trueblood/Primarily, slope and soil conditions.
Norton/Golly, this surely isn't a surprise, I mean it's been there all the time hasn't it?
Thornberry/Right.
Norton/Is the slope getting in and out, the access?
Trueblood/That was sort of our reaction too. No, it was just that that particular portion
of it wasn't completed in a timely as fashion as we would have like to have seen it
and when it was completed turned out, the estimate turned out to be much more
costly than original anticipated.
Champion/Well I'm happy that's finally gonna be built.
Norton/Are we deferring a public hearing, is that what we're gonna do?
Lehman/No.
(several people talking)
Norton/Continuation of it, OK.
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#6a Page 53
Lehman/Other discussion. I might add this building will house the forestry buildings
that are currently in the cemetery that have been a source of discomfort for not
only council people but from people in the community.
Vanderhoef/It's also doing some rearranging out of city park and allowing some
demolition of.
Lehman/Public hearing closed. Do we have a motion?
Thornberry/Moved adoption.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, second by O'Dounell. Further Discussion.
Norton/I always wanted to ask in following that up, what is going to come down in the
park? How many structures come down in City Park?
Trueblood/Eventually, 2 structures to come down and 1 to be remodeled.
Norton/But when you say eventually, when this is finished or another eventually?
Trueblood/Sometime after this is finished fight. We may even begin some of it before
this is completed, finished, just depends on our time because some of that will be
done in-house.
Vanderhoef/I know that is still with dirt floor out there as I recall.
Trueblood/Which one?
Lehman/City park?
Vanderhoef/The city park the area that's going to be removed.
Trueblood/Yes, one of them, that's correct. It's that old old building that's over near the
boys baseball diamonds that will be the primary thing you'll see disappear. And
another smaller building within the park and then the current park shop we have
plans to use more less t he back half of that for maintenance and storage are for
the park in the front half of it for an enclosed shelter, another shelter that can be
used by the public.
Norton/Will this in fact mean that there won't be any vehicles near the from of the
cemetery near the entrance?
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#6a Page 54
Trueblood/The only vehicles that'll be there on a regular basis will be the cemetery
vehicles, so the forestry vehicles will be all gone.
Norton/There's no chance of them to be stored any further back in the cemetery?
Trueblood/They are on occasion, yea, they are when we can, store them back there, but
during a weekday their needed up front where their more accessible.
Norton/But over weekends and other times they are back in the rear of the cemetery.
Trueblood/They can be stored back there I can't tell you if they always are, I believe they
are.
Norton/Well you know people would be very interested in seeing them back there.
Lehman/Or not not seeing them back there.
Norton/Or seeing in the back, not seeing them in the front.
Vanderhoef/And I'll be real excited to see a new enclosed area for park use and the
citizens out at city park with rest rooms and near the pond and the play area and
the baseball diamonds.
Lehman/Roll call. Motion carries.
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#8 Page 55
ITEM NO. 8. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION DIRECTING SALE OF $7,000,000
SEWER REVENUE BONDS.
Lehman/We have received tonight from the staff the bid on those bonds which was, tell
us, share the glory, this is remarkable.
Don Yucuis/Three bids were received this moming, the lowest bid was Piper Jeffray, out
of Minneapolis, they submitted the lowest bid with a net interest rate of 4.7076,
the city's financial advisor, Evenson. Dodge and myself recommend rewarding
the bid to them. Just wanted to compare the net interest rate on this bond sale to
what the general obligation bond scale is on what's called the delfus hanover????
and these bonds sold as if we were a double A rated bond so we did very well on
that. Part of the reason is, the city' s strong financial background and also Piper
Jeffrey also purchased insurance on these bonds to help them market them. The
4.7076 rate compares to the last sewer revenue bond issue in 97 which was a rate
of 5.537 so we had a nice drop and we got lucky in the market and in April of 90
we had 4.698 on a GEO bond sale so we're down at that level, comparably. The
annual cost savings on this bond issue because of the lower rate versus what was
estimated in the current proposed budget is approximately $100,000 per year.
We'll use that information, put it into the budget numbers and analyze how that
may impact rate increases in the future. I believe it'll impact only a 10% proposed
rate increase July of 99 but it may have an impact on the future rate increases.
I'm very pleased with the bids, this bond issue is to pay for, the majority of the
bond issue is to pay for the Willow Creek tnmk sewer, $5.6 million dollar of the
bond issue is for that. Approximately $600,000 is for the design to expand the
treatment capabilities at the south plant, and then there's two sewer projects, the
west side lift station and the Westminster Road sanitary sewer.
Lehman/Good.
Kubby/Steve, does Willow Creek project that was something that that we kind of moved
up wasn't it? And that those two that opens up a whole lot of west Iowa City, but
it also alleviates some problems in already developed areas, and that' s the reason
we went ahead.
Atkins/(cant hear) Yes, right.
Norton/There were serious problems around Mormon Trek.
Kubby/I'm sorry.
Norton/There were serious problems out around Mormon Trek, everything went through
one small dumption down there by Highway 1.
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Kubby/And it's so, it's really difficult for me because I'm very interested in doing
infi'astructure that does not open up new areas of development, but I want to
relieve capacity cause it also puts a burden on rate payers cause we're not gonna
not do the improvements needed to the sewer plant to do with some of the
problems with ammonia and capacity and all of that that. Both public health and
environmental and growth issues with sewer plant and so, the end result is rate
payers are gonna see another little increase, and I guess it just reinforces for me
the need to make sure I understand the big picture on all these projects, and
understand the ramifications thoroughly of when we add projects like that on to
the big picture so I'm anxious to get that update Steve and hope that we can do it
sooner than later.
Atkins/You'll be getting it from me in the next couple days, I just finished I had Chuck
summary of all of our sewer and water projects over the last 3 years and it shows
each project how much it was bid and this is a summary memo to try to begin
getting you started on. Here's what you've decided to date and I think it'll
become a lot clearer to you. That should be out hopefully in the next day or so.
Kubby/Right. I just. I'm anxious for that. These are huge public investments and I'm
not sure we're on top of it.
Thornberry/Moved adoption of resolution.
Norton/Your pushing my agenda here.
Lehman/We had a motion in?
Vanderhoef/We haven't closed the public hearing have we?
Karr/There's no public hearing.
Lehman/There's no public hearing.
Thornberry/There's no public hearing.
Karr/A resolution.
Atkins/Its a resolution, it was a previous one.
Lehman/We have a motion by Norton.
Norton/Second.
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#8 Page 57
Lehman/Second by Vanderhoef. Roll Call. Motion carries, Kubby voting no.
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#9b Page 58
ITEM
NO. 9b PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND
ESTIMATE OF COST FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE COLLEGE
STREET PEDESTRIAN MALL WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT
PROJECT, ESTABLISHING AMOUNT OF BID SECURITY TO
ACCOMPANY EACH BID, DIRECTING CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH
ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS, AND FIXING TIME AND PLACE FOR
RECEIPT OF BIDS.
Lehman/This is estimated to cost in the neighborhood of $203,000 and needs to be done
prior to the downtown pedestrian mall work next year. Public hearing is open.
Public hearing is closed. Do we have a motion.
Norton/So moved.
Thornberry/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, second by Thornberry. Discussion.
Kubby/This is part of the costs of the streetscape plan or separate?
Atkins/No, this is separate. Just Rob Weinstead is the project engineer on both of those
projects and Rob you want to come to the microphone.
Kubby/I mean I know it makes sense to do this and not have water mains be breaking
and us having to take new brick or recently replaced brick so. But what kinds of
recent history have we had with problem?
Rob Weinstead/Well, right now there's a large asphalt patch over near the Hardee's
entrance from a recent break that we put off the repairs. Part of the dollars that
are estimated for the downtown streetscape actually are to go in and put some
brick back in the area where we do this work and that's about $80,000 dollars
worth of brick that you'll see in the downtown streetscape that's actually because
of this.
Kubby/OK. Thanks, thank you.
Lehman/That recent water break was over a year ago wasn't it?
O'Donnell/Yea, I think it's been longer than that.
Champion/Yea.
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#9b Page 59
Norton/We've heard this actually, what's the extent of this work from where to where
precisely.
Weinstead/Clinton Street to near the library, Ed Moreno tells me that water main is
probably close to 100 years old.
Kubby/About time then.
Weinstead/Yea.
Lehman/Does that go through, does it miss the present fountain?
Weinstead/It kind of jogs around the present fountain.
Lehman/Cause it had broke under the fountain we'd never would have known, would
we?
Norton/You thought when we in there 20 years ago doing the ped mall or 25 or 30 years
ago we would have fixed that thing, fight.
Lehman/Didn't need it then.
Norton/Well ifit's that old.
Champion/Still had 20 years left.
Thornberry/Still had 20 years left.
Lehman/Thank you. Roll Call.
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ITEM NO. 10. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CITY CODE TITLE
9, CHAPTER 4, ENTITLED "PARKING REGULATIONS," ARTICLE 4,
ENTITLED "GENERAL PARKING RESTRICTIONS," SECTION H,
ENTITLED "IN EXCESS OF FORTY-EIGHT HOURS" REGARDING
THE STORAGE OF VEHICLES ON STREETS, ALLEYS AND PUBLIC
PROPERTY. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Thornberry/Move adoption of the ordinance.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, second by O'Donnell. Discussion.
Kubby/Well I have no problem with this (can't hear) snow removal purposes but I
frankly don't have a problem with people moving their car a little bit to avoid the
48 hour storage in most cases. Well I don't know.
Champion/Well I think it's we (can't hear).
Atkins/Let me tell you a common complaint, that I'm sure had a good bit to do with this
particularly during break when people leave their cars on the streets and expect to
in effect be stored in the public thoroughfare. I don't think that there's any,
there's about a half a dozen neighbors that call, it makes them crazy. We will go
up, they will call in, we will tag the car and somebody will move it just a few feet
and we have to tag it again, and it's actually a game that's played.
Norton/Then just push it.
Atkins/Yea, they push it, somebody shoves it.
Lehman/Well it also defeats the purpose of the ordinance which is to prohibit storage on
the street.
Thornberry/Well I've also seen cars with flat tires or and no engines sitting on the streets
SO.
Lehman/Those we tow.
Atkins/Those we tow.
Thornberry/Well, not unless theirs a complaint because the police don't just
automatically tow without a complaint.
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Norton/Well I've certainly had a couple of calls of people were complaining that the
people were moving it a foot.
Thornberry/Yep. All right.
Lehman/All right this will correct that difficulty. Further discussion.
Norton/Now they gotto push it 20 feet.
Vanderhoef/Is 48 hours too long I guess is the question?
Lehman/I think that's in the ordinance I mean.
Vanderhoef/Well I understand that, and is that a conservation we ought to have?
Champion/I would think.
Lehman/(can't hear)
Steve Kanner/Well generally I don't want to encourage cars but I think ordinances
parking ordinances and the city's use of parking ordinances comes down hardest
on low income people and because they don't have access normally tot he
garages and the off-street and the ability to park in garages and actually when
reading this I think 1 the thing we should be changing is making it longer than 48
hours. 48 hours is not even a weekend. If you go away technically Friday to
Sunday you can have someone call in a complaint and have your car towed
because it's 48 hours. I think it should be at the minimum 72 hours and that' s
what you should be exploring with this ordinance, I think that this does not solve
snow removal problems, moving it 20 feet, I think it causes problems in that
someone might move it 15 feet and not the 20 feet. I think the problem your
concerned with is car storage, and if someone is moving it a small amount that's
not car storage, there's someone there that's involved with the car and is
responsible for it. I think this ordinance again it picks on people that don't have
the resources to have the off-street parking, I think that's a problem that perhaps
you should deal with in zoning, but I would hope that you should you would
refuse this passage of this ordinance and at the very least amend it to have 72
hours for allowed on the street.
Atkins/It's 48 hours from the time it's tagged. It has to be tagged and then the clock
starts.
Champion/The problem I have with this ordinance is I don't object to it like during times
of snow but I have that problem with the plus say if your, let's say your renting an
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apartment in an old part of town that may not, in an old house. And so the only
place you can park your car is on the street and that's where you park it. Well
maybe it's on College Street and you've walked down to school and you walk to
work everyday, so that means because you do that you have to move your car
every 48 hours, or I guess somebody has to complain so but to me I don't like the
ordinance period so I'm not going to support it, I understand the need for it in
times that you want to clean the streets, when you want plow the streets, but on a
daily basis I have real trouble with it. Your encouraging people not to walk.
Lehman/My understanding of this though is not so much the person whose parks in from
of their apartment or down the street or across the street, it's somebody who parks
six or eight blocks or ten blocks across town in front of somebody else's house
and leaves it there. And I can understand in a neighborhood where your storing
your car in somebody else's neighborhood that because frustrating for those
neighbors. I understand that.
Kubby/I particularly appreciate that, it's the same no matter who you are or there's no
correlation between that and this ordinance if it's someone calls about it whether
you live there or not, it needs to be enforced in a consistent and fair manner not
depends on where you live.
Lehman/The difference basically if your living close to your car you'll see the ticket or
the marking, and move it and won't get it towed away. And if your storing it on
somebody else's, in front of somebody else's house 10 blocks away you don't see
it, your storing your car and I I.
Thornberry/Good point.
(several people talking)
Kanner/The council began deliberations on the issue of neighborhood permit parking
and perhaps this should be deferred until a more comprehensive plan is put out
there as far as how we want to deal with these kind of parking issues and what we
perhaps need are more neighborhood parking permits. And that might be the
solution.
Kubby/Although we nixed that last night so. We said no to exploring that for now.
Norton/The permit thing has got so complicated.
Lehman/Well we explored it and found it to be probably unmanageable.
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Norton/We've talked about with the north side, but anyhow the streets are not made for
car storage. And that's the way it goes.
Thornberry/No their not.
Norton/It's been in existence for a long time and many house (can't hear) are suppose to
have accommodations for off-street parking but.
Champion/You know you've all changed mind cause I didn't think about being able to
store their car, if they live in a dorm and don't want to buy a parking place, they
just stick their car on a street and let it sit all semester.
Lehman/I think that's the whole.
Champion/I mean, I think, it's the I don't like the idea but just when you said that now I
thought well maybe it's a good reason.
Atkins/You can just leave us alone and go back to the way you were.
(several people talking)
Arkins/We're still enforcing it, you still get the 48 hours.
Thomberry/I think we need to do this.
Lehman/All fight.
Norton/We can reconsider the 48 hour (can't hear), but we're not talking about that,
we're talking just about the distance.
(several people talking)
Champion/Right
Kubby/I don't think we need.
Vanderhoef/And the 48 hours is after it has had a complaint and has been tagged so
that's an extra long time.
Lehman/And we're not talking about that, we're talking about how much we move it.
Roll call.
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Champion/Now by my voting no on that I'm not getting rid of the 48 hour ordinance,
I'm just getting ride of the feet right.
Lehman/Your getting rid of the.
Norton/You want 10 feet.
Champion/OK.
Lehman/You want to be able to move it 2 inches and leave it where it is and not get
towed.
Champion/Push it.
Lehman/Now what was your home phone # so people can call you and express their
pleasure with that?
Thornberry/She's in the book.
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ITEM NO. 12 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 14,
CHAPTER 5, ARTICLE A, BUILDING CODE, BY ADOPTING
VOLUMES 1, 2, AND 3 OF THE 1997 EDITION OF THE UNIFORM
BUILDING CODE PUBLISHED BY THE INTERNATIONAL
CONFERENCE OF BUILDING OFFICIALS, AND PROVIDING FOR
CERTAIN AMENDMENTS THEREOF; TO PROVIDE FOR THE
PROTECTION OF THE HEALTH, WELFARE AND SAFETY OF THE
CITIZENS OF IOWA CITY, IOWA (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
Norton/Moved Second consideration.
Thornberry/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, second by Thornberry. Discussion.
Karr/Mr. Mayor. Just a point of clarification response to someone that I didn't get back
to today all of these can be combined in a simple motion if council so incline.
We're not talking of collapsing the reading, but simply combining the items.
Norton/Combining.
Lehman/Were you, is that motion going through 177
Thornberry/Is that 16 through 177
Lehman/My motion was to.
Norton/Try to find that motion to cover the...
Lehman/12 through 17, that's what he said (can't hear).
Karr/I missed it again, I'm sorry.
Thornberry/the amended.
Lehman/All right. Discussion. Roll call.
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ITEM NO. 18 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING A 28E
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF CORALVILLE AND THE
CITY OF IOWA CITY PROVIDING FOR FUTURE ANNEXATIONS AND
EXTRATERRITORIAL REVIEW OF SUBDIVISION PLATS.
Thornberry/Move adoption.
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, second by Vanderhoef. Discussion.
Kubby/I would like to move an amendment that on part #3, the last sentence that says
Iowa City further, am I in the right place? Right.
Dilkes/Yes.
Kubby/Iowa City further agrees to preserve a corridor of 100 feet in width for the
eventual extension of Oakdale Boulevard of between W66, (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/And Prairie Du Chien.
Kubby/Thank you (can't hear).
Champion/You pushed the wrong button.
Kubby/I'm ready to go forward to that.
O'Donnell/The computer got away from you.
Kubby/(cant hear) said no (can't hear) can be constructed in accordance with the design
standard, to adopt the construction of Oakdale boulevard west of county road
W66.
Norton/I second that amendment, that motion.
Kubby/This technology we gotta learn how to deal with it.
Lehman/We got a motion to amend and a second. Motion by Kubby, second by Norton.
Discussion.
Vanderhoef/I would agree with that for tonight and I would like to bring this back to a
work session real soon and talk about it, cause I I'm not.
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Atkins/It being Oakdale?
Vanderhoef/Yes,
Atkins/OK.
Vanderhoef/Just that part of Oakdale.
Lehman/My sense is that were like were choosing to exclude this because we really have
never discussed this.
Vanderhoef/Yea.
Norton/But I think we need to see what's in the context of the whole belt line???
contract revolving here and then we need to think it briefly found out we may be
committed to and we may want to rethink (can't hear) what about this part.
Lehman/All Right.
Kubby/Well and I maybe it would be a good idea if the mayor could call some Coralville
folks to let them know why we took this out cause really it was not the greatest
process to have it in because we had gotten so far in our discussions without
anyone from Coralville directly talking to us about this and.
Thornberry/This has been going back and forth by both of them, this was added in that.
Norton/At the last minute yea.
Thornberry/Seemed to be.
Kubby/At least seemingly to us, because we hadn't had communication. They may had
been talking about it for a while but we didn't get the word so we want, we want
to go forward the other parts of the agreement. So maybe a call would be helpful.
Lehman/Well than my sense is, my sense is that I will contact the mayor of Coralville
and tell him we excluded this because we have really not discussed it. The rest of
the 28E agreement has been cussed and discussed a number of times.
Kubby/Right.
Thornberry/Yea.
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Lehman/All those in favor of the amendment to remove Oakdale. Discussion on the
motion as amended. Roll call. Motion carries.
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ITEM NO. 19. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION TO ADOPT THE IOWA CITY
PUBLIC ART PROGRAM AMENDED ACQUISITION PROCEDURES.
Norton/Move adoption to resolution.
Champion/Defer? (can't hear)
Kubby/No the by-laws.
Lehman/No, next one.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, second by VanderhoeK Discussion.
Kubby/I think this is a really great change. When there was the public comment period
for the fountain there were some people who came up to me on the street who
were there afterwards saying these comments and I was like, I was kind of
flabbergasted saying this was your opportunity to speak and you were there and
there was time and space and you chose not to, the people felt uncomfortable
about saying things I think because the committee was there, because the arts
were there, because other folks who were competing were there, who didn't
selected and so this creates another opportunity for people to be honest and give
us really what they think so I think that.
Norton/This whole change reflects the fact that they've only been through one exercise
and their now just going through their second so I suppose there'll be more
changes as they get more practice with this process.
Kubby/Just so were clear to the public, the change we're talking about doing is that the
artists work will be displayed in a public place for one week and written
comments will be invited during this period as well as the public forum still being
available.
Vanderhoef/I was interested in the flexibility that they allowed that you may have certain
things happen and yet their not required when it comes to presenting the art piece,
you can send information rather than come and do a presentation and it also gives
the committee flexibility on requesting them to come and also on the flexibility of
giving an honorarium.
Lehman/Roll call. Motion carries.
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ITEM NO. 20. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION TO ADOPT AMENDED BY-LAWS
FOR THE PUBLIC ART ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
Lehman/We've been asked to defer this. I would ask that we defer it to the 9th so the
rules committee gets (can't hear) report.
Norton/So moved.
Thornberry/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, seconded by Thornberry. All in favor. Motion is deferred.
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ITEM NO. 23 ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES.
Lehman/Historic Preservation Commission has 4 vacancies including one from the
Brown Street district and one from Moffitt Cottage District. Currently there are 4
females and 2 males on the committee.
Telecommunications commission has 2 vacancies to fill 3 year terms ending
March 13, 2002 so we would certainly encourage anyone who has interest in those
areas and wishes to serve the community to make application.
Vanderhoef/Just please it make clear that there are two at large spaces on the Historic
Preservation Commission.
Lehman/Just did.
Vanderhoef/Thank you.
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ITEM NO. 24
CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
Champion/I have just a I have a couple things, I'd like.
Lehman/OK.
Champion/I have something happened tonight that I didn't want to bring up, when it
happened because I didn't want it to be confrontational but Karen again I think
included me when a comment of hers that she's never heard me speak about.
And, when you were talking about the council objecting to the animal fights
people (can't hear) through these procedures, and I just wish that all of us would
keep in mind, this (can't hear) happened to all of us I'm sure, but I think when
your talking about what the council does as individuals you need to do it
somehow differently what we do as a whole group it's find I don't have any
objections to you calling it, calling us all, grouping us altogether but I don't just
like people speaking for me when they've never spoken to me about it.
Kubby/I don't recall, I'll have to look at the tape or look at the transcript cause I don't
recall that.
Champion/But I mean you didn't say my name specifically, I mean you just said you
know you kind of included us all as a group, and I don't, I consider myself an
individual and not part of the group. I don't, I'm not trying to, that's why I didn't
bring it up and I didn't want to embarrass you or make it confrontational but it's
something that bothers me.
Thornberry/It happens frequently.
Champion/And I don't like it. I'm sorry, there is another thing I have.
Lehman/Yes.
Champion/I just want to go back to that senior center thing Steve, I just need to have you
clarify something for me. The senior center issue is like (can't hear) county, is
that true?
Atkins/The senior center is a city service that we provide. However, we are under
contract the county, and the county by paying 20% of the operating budget for the
senior center opens the participation for folks throughout Johnson county. Now
the only, organ, other agency we have a contract happens to be the county, and
that entitles Coralville, Noah Liberty, any folks to use it.
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Champion/So if we would decide to expand the senior center by thousands of square
feet, would that become (public city) paid totally for that?
Atkins/We would have to pay the up front cost under the current agreement, I would
assume what the council would expect is that that additional cost would be built
into the operational budget of the senior center and then the county would be
paying it's 20% share.
(several people talking)
Champion/I think before I had such a lack of knowledge about some of this stuff.
Atkins/No, its.
Lehman/Connie, I think we all suffer the same lack of knowledge, and we're going to
during council time tonight try to pick a date when we can meet with that senior
center commission and questions just like that cost and whatever the implications
of this thing will be discussed hopefully and we'll have a much better
understanding.
Kubby/Your talking county too cause they, you know their trying to budget and.
Lehman/Yea, that's correct, no, that's right.
Atkins/If part of you, if a good bit of the space and I've not read the report is attributable
for example, one of the big issues is the congregate meals program I think you'd
be kind of silly not to bring them to the table, say that, well you understand.
Norton/Have some numbers about using these too because they did a survey maybe a
year ago of some sort of, of use of use survey and I think we need about every day
that we have about who's active in the center.
Lehman/Right.
Kubby/Before people move on I want to acknowledge Connie's point, I didn't know
what you were talking about but now I do, in that when I was kind of complaining
about some council members comments, I should have said who it was, it was the
mayors comments in the paper, and I shouldn't have been shy about saying that
because it was public comments in the paper about people using the tools.
Champion/No, I appreciate that, I don't like being grouped as a group, I don't, I don't
like that.
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Kubby/I hear that, and I appreciate you saying something. I'm fine with that and I'm
glad you did.
Lehman/No, you shouldn't have been shy Karen because I wasn't.
Kubby/No, you weren't.
Lehman/Connie do you have anything else? Karen.
Kubby/I had a couple things. One thing I wanted to let people know about a forum about
child care that's going to go on on January 30th which is this Saturday from 10 -
noon at the IMU Ohio State Room, which is room 343 of the IMU. Pastries and
refreshments will be served at 9:45 so you can go a little early and get some
munchies. And people this is co-sponsored by a service employees international
union, AFSCME local 12, AFT, local 16, the UI women studies program, human
rights of Iowa City, women's resource and action center and the main sponsor is
UACOG? and what their trying to do is to just get a feel for people's child care
issues in the commtmity and then figuring out some ways to relieve some of those
stresses on families in the area. And everyone's invited to come.
And speaking of child care we got a very interesting letter from Osha Davidson in
our packet talking a little bit about how we could provide some space or designate
some space that was not the council chambers so if people needed to come with
their children in order to speak because of the lack of childcare or because they
wanted their children to be involved in the process of participating in local
government but not wanting if if the children got a little loud or someone was
crying to have another space and you know I was thinking the most logical place
would be the lobby conference room but many times during our meeting times we
have boards of commissions that meet there so it couldn't be consistently
available but the lobby is and so that if although it's not really conducive for kids
crawling around and stuff so I guess I wanted to, what I think (can't hear) spot
about that letter and if you found of any ways to deal with that issue.
Lehman/I would think the lobby even now is available if someone wants to bring
children, and we certainly have chairs if we want to set them out there for, to sit
with their children.
Kubby/Our chairs, chairs are only really put out there if we expect a big crowd fight? Is
there a way to have a small stack of chairs out there just so there there, I know it's
just one more task but that might be a small way of accommodating this
observation.
O'Donnell/Have we had this problem, I mean have we had a problem with?
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Lehman/Well I don't know.
Kubby/That's right. People may self select out because of their needs.
Atkins/Well we've had occasional, junior gets out of hand at the council meeting. Yea.
Lehman/I don't think it's a problem to have chairs available.
Champion/I don't think it is either.
Kubby/Well we could maybe.
(several people speaking)
Atkins/Stack chairs out there.
Lehman/That's no problem.
Atkins/No, because we already have a have the tape set up, the audio set up rather.
Norton/Then they can watch television.
(several people talking)
Norton/Yea, but their thinking cartoons.
Kubby/I had two other things, one is that increasingly I had people in town calling me or
talking to me about the Y2K issues, and feeling like they don't have enough
information. And it's interesting I really didn't think that it would be that big a
deal in our community and maybe I was just being very naive, I mean we got that
memo from Kevin O'Malley whose our kind of main man on Y2K complaints
issue for local govemment, for Iowa City anyway, and he gave us a nice report
about where were in compliance, where were almost incompliance and where we
need to focus some attention on. But the other things people are concerned are
energy and food and I think those are the two main things that, and Vaseline
availability, those are the three things I've heard people talk about and a couple
mentioned to me, two different organizations that have put out manuals for
citizens to organize public forums to (can't hear) discuss this and know where
we're at. Cause even though we may have everything figured out for our water
and sewer plant which are probably two of the most important things and payroll.
But were also should be concerned about the energy because there a vendor for us
and and we don't have anything in writing from our energy vender that says we
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are incompliance and we will be in compliance and so I was thinking that might
be a good idea for maybe the city to co-sponsor some kind of public forum to give
information and I think there is this unspoken fear about this especially when the
state kind of says were gonna have the national guard available in case of
whatever, but that kind of instills more questions and if we can provide
information about those basics but that would help people out a lot.
Vanderhoef/Could that be on the info channel instead of a public forum meeting kind of
thing or give them a place to call in their questions and the questions would be
answered on the info line? Rather than having people come in.
Kubby/Yea.
Norton/Yea.
Champion/That's a really good idea.
(several people talking)
Norton/Why can't it be in that little bulletin that everybody seems to read.
Kubby/It could be, it could be, and Kevin said he's gonna put some stuff in there
although we would need to direct (can't hear) to get information about those
things that we don't have anything to do with like
?????/Mid America Energy.
Kubby/Mid America Energy stuff.
Champion/Which could be really crucial in December.
Kubby/Right. So. I just see this increasing awareness and concern that I didn't really
expect and I don't know if any of you have gotten calls about it, but I'm getting e-
mail's, and calls and stops on the street about it so I feel like we should respond in
some way cause people are asking for information.
Norton/I think it's the e-mailites that are particularly into Y2K issues.
Thornberry/E-mailites?
(Several people talking)
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Norton/But I do think that Kevin I, somebody that I referred to Kevin's memo you know
that he had us that (can't hear) well but even that leaves a lot unsaid, it's a pretty
complicated matter.
Kubby/Well a couple people have expressed to me some interest in working, citizens
interested on working on this maybe I'll connect them with Kevin and maybe
channel 4 folks.
Atkins/I just want us to be cautious of a liability perspective, I mean I think we can make
contacts and encourage the Mid-America's and those folks to open up more. The
food Karen I'm not so sure I understand.
Kubby/I think to make sure there' s gonna bread delivered on time and stuff.
Champion/I can guarantee that.
Kubby/I don't know this, getting information off the major retailers what are their plans,
how would this affect them and what are there, how would they dealt with it. So
it wouldn't be us providing the information, but that asking them what their
compliance, like a memo from what we got from Kevin getting it from HyVee or
wherever.
Atkins/I think the more high profile kind of public services. I mean water and sewer
were working on and we also have contingency plans that we'll.
Kubby/How could we publicize that?
???? / You could reassure them.
Norton/Reassure them that aliens are not gonna land or something like that.
AtkinsfI don't know if we can do that.
(several people talking)
Thornberry/It's getting us nowhere.
Lehman/OK.
Kubby/Well maybe I will work more on that. But Dee your suggestion is well taken.
The last thing I have is I you know last night when we were talking about the
notice of intent to commit citizen action, we hadn't really gotten a chance to read
this memo or letter from the Mississippi River Revival but it brought up some
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questions for me in terms of information and so I'd like to make a request for
some information and see if other council members would find it useful. And that
is I know that a lot of the thing, I mean and this is all public record stuff but our
noncompliance on certain days or certain instances with BOD and solids and
ammonia and cyanide and copper and mercury and chlorine but we have certain
projects in line to take care of some of those things. And I know that I got some
calls today and I think we may get continued calls so that we can adequately
answer questions of citizens to maybe understand a specific project that we're
planning that will help deal with those specific elements and sewer issues and
maybe what the time frame and cost and I know that Chuck has said that we have
a written agreement with the D & R about all of this compliance stuff if we could
get a copy of that that would be really helpful. So just understanding what sewer
projects we have on line that are gonna deal specifically you know, like what line,
or what thing in the plant is going to deal with these specifics, it would be really
helpful for me and being able to more articulately answer questions besides saying
"were taking care of it." That to me is not a good enough answer.
Norton/Well there again we put Dave on the TV sometimes to explain that.
Kubby/Well I know.
Lehman/That's a good idea, he at least, he understands you know what he's talking
about.
Norton / You know, for example, the mercury problems is extremely complicated issue
(can't hear) instruments and so on.
Kubby/Right, except the problem I have with the answer we've gotten for the last two
years or so about this testing is that every community has to deal with those
testing the testing atmosphere and the reliability and the micro levels that are
tested. But other communities aren't out of compliance and so I feel like I need
an expanded (can't hear)
Norton/Well we don't know that, all that we know is that the communities that were
listed there, the industries in that community happened to be in place where (can't
hear) had a...
Lehman/I thought the paper said 5 1% of the (can't hear)
Norton/I think they were (can't hear) environmental (can't hear) had a presence. I think
a friend of mine didn't have membership (can't hear) that's what I read anyhow, it
wasn't a serious survey of the whole state cause it would have been a much longer
list.
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Kubby/They only have (can't hear) here.
Kubby/Right. But I'm saying that not every community in Iowa is out of compliance on
mercury and every community has to test for mercury so if were saying were out
of compliance is because of the testing procedure then every community would be
out of compliance for that.
Norton/We don't know that, we don't know. They stated some other communities on
mercury do we?
Atkins/HA HA, yea.
Kubby/Well I know that cause I've called and asked about it. It wasn't part of this
document. But anyway if we could get that as well as a copy of the agreement
that would help (can't hear) and it would be real helpful. Thank you that's all I
have.
O'Donnell/I saw on the news where Cedar Rapids was starting a skateboard park. Did
anybody see that?
Kubby/I thought they had a big party didn't they.
Norton/(can't hear) party aren't they?
O'Dounell/And their having a fund raiser for it. I know there are several people on this
council that are interested in this so I'd like to get some more information on that
because I think it's a good project.
Vanderhoef/Funny you should ask. I have it.
Kubby/All fight Dee.
Vanderhoef/I had an opportunity to make that request from Dale Todd in Cedar Rapids
and he has sent me a copy and I'd be happy to loan it to anyone, I'm not quite
finished reading it and then I was going to share it also with Mike in particular
over at parks and recreation, because he and I had talked about it a little bit earlier.
But I had their entire citizen plan and packet and the whole thing.
Kubby/Is there a little summary, cause I know that that' s an item Mike that were gonna
talk about on our CIP and so you might need to just verbally update us.
O'Donnell/I think we all should have a copy of that cause that's.
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Lehman/Well how long is it?
O'Donnell/We've been talking about this.
Vanderhoef/40 some pages.
Lehman/I don't want to read 40 pages though.
Kubby/Is there an executive summary that's a couple paragraphs or a couple pages?
That might be.
Norton/Why should we jump into that before parks and rec. makes up a
recommendation?
Vanderhoef/Well that's.
Norton/That's what I don't understand.
Vanderhoef/Well that's
Norton/They've been working at it and they know we have an interest in it they've been
looking at it. Why should we?
Lehman/Why don't we give them the report?
Norton/Yea.
Kubby/We have their priority.
O'Donnell/Because we're interested in it and I'm interested in getting the skateboards
off of the streets downtown.
Norton/But then you'll come up with the recommendation one way or another and their
looking for a spade.
Vanderhoef/It's on the, their recommendation list and it's quite low. As far as their
projects, their priority list that we have Mike it's quite low from parks and
recreation commission.
Kubby/OK. So are a lot of projects that we have on our CIP that are fairly soon so
we'll, it's not just that one issue, we'll have to deal with.
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Vanderhoef/No. There's a lot of conversation with it but I'd be happy to share the whole
thing or however.
O'Donnell/I'd like to look at it.
Norton/Well you can look at it, what I'm saying is I've got enough to read I want to hear
from the troops that have looked at it in detail before I start tiding on it.
O'Donnell/Well I think he should get a new skateboard because this is, this is an
important thing for Iowa City. My second item is.
Lehman/Ranks tight up there with Waterloo.
O'Dormell/Dee Norton and I attended the SEATS advisory committee meeting and we
were appointed to a side committee which I'm gonna chair about the number of
pkgs. that the people can take on the SEATS bus so (can't hear), yea I'm ready for
that.
Norton/You have a large assignment let me tell you.
O'Donnell/We're gonna work on that.
Lehman/Call TWA and get the carryon resttictions.
O'Donnell/The third thing I have is I'm getting several calls on snow removal. And
Steve on areas where we have parking on only side of the street, could you just
briefly go through what the procedures there if we've got mailboxes blocked and
driveways.
Atkins/What we try to do is that we have one side of the street with no parking and
obviously when we move into a neighborhood that's the side that gets cleared and
we finish the pass through the city. Most neighborhoods what we would do is we
would go back with our folks and we would stake it, that is you see the small
cardboard signs saying "No parking on this day". And we to the best of my
knowledge we allow at least 24 hours notice and that's simply heads up to that
neighborhood that we're gonna come in and normally we do it late at night,
sometime after midnight and we want the cars removed. Well if their not
removed, we usually will pull out of the neighborhood, come back the next day
and have to tow and pick it up the following day. So if someone's having trouble
with removal the best thing is to simply call the department of public works, the
streets division, name the street, you gave me one the other night that I'll check
for you specifically. We've been very successful with that. A lot of cities have
snow removal routes and folks towing cars is about the last thing in the world
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from a PR standpoint that we want to do. And it just doesn't make you any
friends. And we've found that our system is maybe not as efficient, I still think
were able to get the done satisfactorily with a lot less griping.
O'Donnell/So we do have a policy in place, and all they have to do is call and we can
help them?
Atkins/We'll move it, we'll take care of it for you.
Thornberry/One comment on parking cars on the when you have snow areas, I know
Appleton Wisconsin is a town of about Iowa City and they they also have a
college there my son went to school there, to get his undergraduate degree. And
there is no parking on the street overnight in Appleton Wisconsin.
Atkins/It's not uncommon in some newer cities, Appleton is not a newer town, it's a
great residential character than I think we have and they don't. We actually talked
about that once many many years ago, it just simply would not work on the north
side.
Thornberry/Yea.
Atkins/I mean it would just be (can't hear).
Thornberry/No, I know. But were pretty flexible with the parking and trying to get the
snow removal and.
Atkins/Oh we are, no I mean I can park (can't hear),
Thornberry/You know, a lot of places aren't.
Atkins/One of the things.
Thornberry/In fact I heard on the on you know during this last snow storm Detroit
doesn't even have snow removal.
Atkins/On the residential streets.
Thornberry/On the residential streets.
Kubby/Detroit. Takes a long time.
Thornberry/They don't even have it in Detroit.
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Champion/They have like 18 snowplows.
Thornberry. Period. There is no snow removal in Detroit Michigan in the residential
areas.
Norton/(can't hear) snowplows now.
Lehman/Yea, I will, I'm sorry. Are you making a motion that we get rid of our
snowplows.
Thornberry/No. No. No.
Lehman/Was that your council time?
Thornberry/No, it was, Steve's got one more thing.
Atkins/No, I don't, I forgot.
Thornberry/No, I don't have anything.
Lehman/Dee Vanderhoef.
Vanderhoef/OK. Dee Vanderhoefhas just a couple. I maybe wasn't listening carefully
enough but I know that there letting the bid on the Summit Street bridge in about
the 16th of February. But I'm not sure when we would be starting that project.
Atkins/I'm assuming as soon as the break in weather.
Vanderhoef/OK. And to the length of time and what I'm leading into is that it's going to
create a lot of problem during the school year if it's not completed which leads me
to getting the Pine Street runnel bridge under the railroad completed before school
starts so there's an alternative way without going through the Summit Street
bridge area.
Atkins/I understood, I think Denny said at the last, it was November by the time we
finish the project so we will be into the school year. Under my time I was going
to mention to you that we're gonna do capitol projects and that's just the kind of
discussion your gonna have to have.
Vanderhoef/That's one of the heads up that I've been thinking about that its a real tough
thing to get those children across the railroad track if the next bridge is 1 st
Avenue.
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Thornberry/Yea.
Kubby/And the school district line is there.
Vanderhoef/Oh it goes clear down to the railroad track so they have to come across the
railroad track or Summit Street bridge.
Norton/Either that or there out to be a temporary bridge across on Summit like we did on
WooIf.
Vanderhoef/It's, it's a concern to think about.
Thornberry/They've worked that bridge before so I think they can look back at the
archives and see what they did.
Lehman/Well in fact they should go back and pick a weed last time.
O'Donnell/There weren't cars then Steve.
Lehman/Oh there were, there were.
Kubby/It was getting the pigs across that.
Thornberry/It was after the pig.
Norton/No, no, no, there was no, it only took them about a week to build a bridge.
O'Donnell/Oh, it took longer than that you just thought it was a week.
Norton/I thought it was a bunch of elves.
Lehman/Elves.
Thomberry/They worked like 24 hours a day, they worked at night.
Atkins/It was the saber tooth tigers that were causing all the problems.
Norton/It was a troll under the bridge.
Vanderhoef/Nobody had a poll vault. One other thing is January 30th is the first
legislative breakfast from the chamber and it will be in the chamber conference as
it is presently planned for 8:00 am and the other dates for our legislative
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breakfasts are February 27, March 22, and the last one will be the wrap up on
April 24.
Atkins/This Saturday is the first one.
????/30th.
Vanderhoef/January 30th.
Norton/That's this Saturday.
Vanderhoef/That's it.
Lehman/OK Dee.
Norton/I might dig in my seats for my water concerns but I think we do need to cleared
on where we stand on that. We need a briefing from David if not the public.
Atkins/On the wastewater?
Norton/Yea, I I well where we stand on those matters that have been brought up by the.
Champion/Mississippi River Valley.
Atkins/Well it was also, and I mean as this as a note of caution. There is an allegation
here of litigation so I think we want to approach it reasonably cautiously, I think
most of this information particularly the citations from the code I know Eleanor
hasn't had a chance to look at it because we just got this thing. And so we'll try
to prepare a response as best we can to the thing. I don't think you don't want to
jeopardize your legal position.
Norton/The other matter I want to mention was one of our employees Travis Remmert
has developed a product that's gonna be of some interest. I told him I said are we
gonna get our cut and I see were gonna get a 20% right.
Lehman/Yes.
Kubby/Yes, we are.
Atkins/Yea, we' 11 get our cut.
Norton/But apparently there's quite a bit of demand already (can't hear) phone calls from
(can't hear) who want this.
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Atkins/Apparently what happened, is that Travis was a contract employee and designed
this software program for housing rehab, it was sent in as a best management
practice or something to HUD and then the HUD folks put the word out and
we've had other municipalities with similar programs wanting this, he's entitled
to that's the.
Norton/I didn't want to ask, is that a standard (can't hear) has this happened before?
Atkins/I don't recall it happening.
Kubby/I hope he becomes a young millionaire.
Atkins/I don't think that's going to happen. I think it may help pay tuition.
Kubby/That's pretty good too.
Lehman/My understanding is that's quite a sophisticated program, he told me he was at a
conference or whatever, and several other cities tried to buy his program from him
at a conference. So that's a terribly terribly complicated difficult department.
And I would assume that a computer program that will enable those folks to do
their work easier would be something for a lot of demand for.
O'Donnell/He had to be very confident though with all the council members new ability
in operating these laptops. If he had a question he could come to us.
Norton/Well I had to call him to shutdown mine.
Thornberry/How to play the games.
Norton/I want to remind my colleagues, (can't hear) you raise your money for her team,
but our team folks don't forget to try to get your pledges.
Vanderhoef/$60.00 minimum.
Norton/It's not hard, you don't have to do anything but just get there, just passing, can I
put you down for X do it. They don't have to fill out a thing.
Lehman/And I tell you you better get your pledges before you bowl because we bowl
we're not gonna get any (can't hear).
Norton/No. no. that's right, I encourage people to get them from different circles so we
don't overlap and done the same people.
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Vanderhoef/You have yours filled out I presume?
Norton/That's fight.
Lehman/All fight. That's it Dee.
Norton/That' it.
Lehman/We have, first of all we talked last night about a meeting between the council
and the board of supervisors regarding (can't hear) agreement disagreements if
you will, that meetings gonna take place Monday at 12:30 that's set up and Karin
Franklin will join the supervisors, two other council members, myself and I think
we have a short meeting we should be able to take care of that quickly.
Norton/Will that need to set the committees (can't hear) meeting with that?
Lehman/That' s fight, we need to schedule and we can do it tonight or we can do it
tomorrow, seems like we meet about every day. We need to set a meeting to visit
with P & Z to visit about Saddlebrook, we also need to set a time to meet with the
senior center commission about their space needs.
Champion/Instead of trying to set up more meetings why don't we just move our work
sessions up a half hour.
Kubby/Well we'll need more than that.
Lehman/Well it took more than a half hour for P & Z, there's no question about that.
Champion/It would take as much time as a whole hour.
Norton/It would take more than that.
Lehman/Saddlebrook' s pretty complicated project.
Champion/Yea, it is.
Lehman/I don't, what's your pleasure?
Kubby/Well could we meet at 5:30 on February 8th for one of those or both of those
issues?
Lehman/February 8th is a work session.
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Norton/We have February 1 st open, that Monday night February 1 st but.
Thornberry/We have a meeting on the third anyway don't we?
Kubby/Yea.
Norton/February 1 st is open.
Lehman/That's Monday night.
Norton/Pardon me, that's pretty soon, yes.
Vanderhoef/We won't be able to get them by then.
Norton/It was just an optional date that's all I saw.
Kubby/What about 5:30 on the 8th.
Lehman/5:30 on the 8th.
Kubby/We'd be coming an extra hour for the work session.
Norton/Is that enough? I really want to get into that Saddlebrook thing, it raises so many
issues I think.
Lehman/Let's wait till you council work session.
Norton/I'd rather not mix it on that day, they meet on Monday nights too, don't they?
Lehman/P & Z7
Norton/Every other.
Thornberry/Oh, we're meeting 5-7 on Thursday the 1 lth aren't we?
O'Donnell/When's that 7:30 meeting?
Vanderhoef/That's on Friday.
Atkins/This coming Friday.
(several people talking)
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???/On the 1 lth.
Lehman/That's fight.
O'Donnell/Well Friday why don't we come in at 6:30 in the morning?
Thornberry/Oh yea, Oh yea.
(Several people talking).
Kubby/Dee's for that.
Norton/What about Thursday, Wednesday or Thursday or next week, we have one on
Tuesday for the budget, what about Thursday of next week.
Karr/Thursday you've got the Chamber banquet a number of you.
Atkins/Folks, can I suggest something to you.
Lehman/Yes.
Arkins/A couple of you don't have your books, your gonna be back here tomorrow at
3:00 why don't you bring them then.
(several people talking)
Lehman/Let's all come 5 minutes to 3:00 and we'll do it tomorrow. OK. Steve do you
have anything?
Atkins/Yes, two quick things. One is we have budget tomorrow, first out of the shoot
we're gonna do aid to agencies so if you have questions and the forum that Karen
and Connie provided you soon as you wrap that up we'll move into capitol
projects and that's what I'm assuming we'll devote that day to.
O'Donnell/3-6 tomorrow.
Atkins/3-6 is the plan.
O'Donnell/I have a 7:00 meeting.
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Vanderhoef/Whose gonna give me a ride to (can't hear)
Lehman/Where's it at?
Norton/I might.
Thornberry/
Champion/I think you may all get it (can't hear).
Lehman/Eleanor.
Dilkes/Nothing.
Lehman/Why don't you ever have anything? We always look forward to you Eleanor
because we know that' s the end of the meeting.
Dilkes/I've got a bet with Madan on the time over here.
Karr/A minute and 12 seconds.
Lehman/(can't hear) Second. All in favor. Meeting adjourned.
S NO. 25
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