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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-02-11 TranscriptionFebruary 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 1 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session 1:15 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Dounell, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Yucuis. Winklehake, Dilkes (PCRB discussion). Police Citizen Review Board: Watson, Cohen, Farrant, Hoffey. Tapes: 99-26, a11;99-27, all; 99-28, side 1. Budget Discussion 99-19 S2 Lehman/Steve .... Atkins/I think there are a couple of items in Karen's (memo) .... I thought we covered most of Dee's .... Champion/Are we going to get a final compilation of our CIP thing? Atkins/That is about as close as we can get... We will do a little polishing on it. If you will note your 10-10-10 really works out to 9-9-9 on an average .... Lehman/Unless you would experience perfect construction seasons... those numbers aren't going to hold either .... Atkins/We are getting ready to prepare a detailed memo on water and sewer in response to the Press Citizen article... preliminary estimates, final engineering estimates, you go to bid and spec heating, you bid the project... award a contract... each time there is a potential for a different number .... It is usually at award of contract that Don hunkers down and makes financial decisions .... If I am correct, I am looking at Karen's memo, #3 and #4 we did not do .... Kubby/#3... concern is more about preparing for next year. We had asked you to think about how to get the public more involved .... And to spend some more attention on that kind of thing. Lehman/How do you suggest we do that? .... Kubby/I think maybe we don't do the whole budget at once .... Community development, general public health initiatives... Ask people... talk about what is it that you need from the city .... How would you like... different .... Champion/It might be as simple as sending out a survey .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2 Norton/...some meeting... explaining the budget... When he tums in the report to the state, there are some ways we could use... For example... outputs in four categories: Administrative and Finance .... Talking about our General Fund... We put out $6.8 million or 21% for administration and finance. For Police, Fire and Housing Inspection Service .... 37% .... Community Development .... 15% .... 27% for Health and Welfare ....Four categories... are the ones the state specifies the city report to them about ....In the budget documents... that goes to the state .... Yucuis/There are four categories... three times a year when we report it in state format .... Rest of year reported by department division .... Include all funds. Norton/I want to do it with respect to our discretionary funds ....Might be useful for people to understand. Vanderhoef/If you try to split it out... split out some of the matching funds ....It isn't like it is discretionary in a way .... Kubby/I am talking about a general value. If council would like some specific suggestions from me, I would be happy to give them... I have already given some to Steve. I guess I am just talking about the policy of would it be a good idea to have the public involved on the front end ....Departments are coming to him with their proposed budgets .... Thornberry/Karen, I don't disagree with that. I think the public is involved as much as possible in the budget also. We are their representatives .... What I am thinking they would be doing is coming to us with those items that are involved directly with themselves ..... Special interest. Vanderhoef/The thing I see happening may well be that they are going to bring in all the things that staff is already going to put in there .... Better handle on it... Let the public react to .... That is where public input for me is the most valuable. Kubby/...Have our CIP... in our five year plan. Vanderhoef/ O'Donnell/ ....anybody that wants involved can be involved. Norton/I hate to ask the public to put in random input ....Get confused ....I don't think the green book is quite as easy to understand. Champion/ Norton/Citizen's Summary... didn't quite do the job .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 3 O'Donnell/How many were picked up? Atkins/In the Citizen's Summary, what we do... format has not changed dramatically .... Every board and commission member is mailed one .... That is 150... make available as we see fit .... I really don't keep tabs on them .... Kubby/ ....One improvement this year...budget highlights this year... major changes... very good addition... There are no graphics and we are a very visual culture .... We should at least talk about what we are doing .... When people come to our p.h. about the budget .... input doesn't seem very viable and isn't taken very seriously because they just don't understand all the rules of all the money. So I think it is up to us to... make rules easy and accessible .... Lehman/Last year at the p.h. we had one person speak on the budget. Kubby/Five .... I keep track of that. Lehman/The public interest .... You don't see those folks .... We have some active neighborhoods. Were those neighborhoods invited to comment on budget items at least for their neighborhoods. Atkins/I met with the neighborhood council and tried to get them to bite on some budget issues .... They get me to come to the meeting .... real budget policy gets lost .... Thornberry/I did mention Tuesday night that we were having a budget meeting today... it was an open meeting... All of these meetings have been open to the public and I haven't seen anybody interested .... O'Donnell/How many people have had any calls on the budget? Vanderhoef/I have had zero calls about the budget since the announcement on Tuesday night. Norton/...Need to think about ways to present it .... more easily .... Green book... I think there are ways to present it a little more easily .... Champion/I think the water bill is one of the greatest communicators that we have .... Put a little page in there about this is how your city dollars are spent. Atkins/When we put public information in the water bill, we don't want to hear your propaganda .... Expect some of that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4 Kubby/...Having information on the from end.. that we would get more calls on the budget ....I had two people come to my office hours last week .... They had questions. Lehman/I think Steve... Dee's comment... budget in its simplest form is still incredibly complicated. Anything that we can make it more easily understood by the public... is time well spent. I have no object to having public input .... Atkins/One thing we are going to do... When you conclude the budget, we hope... we would like to buy a full page add in both the PC and Gazette and we are going to do graphically, here is what your city council decided ....We have no idea what it is going to look like... Lehman/ Champion/ Vanderhoef/We need help fi'om the Gazette and the Press. Lehman/Public service message. Norton/ Atkins/I think the thing that folks find complicated ....Movement of the money .... Norton/ Atkins/As a project proposal... In FY2000... here are some of the things your city council has approved .... Things like that .... Kubby/For every tax dollar, 40% goes to the school, 40% to the city, 20% to the county .... Norton/ ....see how much of it goes to the area of community protection... almost 40% of it ..... Atkins/One thing .... Goods and services we buy in the community ..... lot of people going to work ....Coming back into the system... All of our big construction projects, we don't do. We hire somebody to do. Lehman/The simpler and more understandable we can make this, the better off we are .... It is so difficult for people to wade through that and even begin to understand it .... I think that we concur that we certainly would appreciate public input .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 5 Kubby/I will make a list. Lehman/...The most productive input.. Is going to be from department heads... they know what they need... Public input is appreciated .... Folks say well, things are okay. Champion/At the p.h.s we have that nobody shows up for, I think realistically we have all been elected to deal with this... Lehman/Karen .... Atkins/First couple of years I was here we had... dog and pony shows... I must have 10- 15 dates where I would go .... It just went flat .... I am not real sure why. Norton/...They don't want to be bothered with the details. Atkins/The devil is in the details ..... Norton/They can see our decisions about CIP... find ways to make it simpler. Lehman/Next. Atkins/CIP user fees, water and sewer projects .... Kubby/We never did go through the CIP looking at things that are other than general obligations bonds .... There are some things I would like to X and some things I would like to move up .... Atkins/I feel confident Don and I can answer... questions .... I don't have the staff all rounded up. Kubby/Can we just go through the rest of mine .... One them was a GO bond thing. Putting some money back into the Peninsula Park... no decisions were made. (All talking). Kubby/I am talking about an additional $200- Lehman/I look at the parks we have access to fight now, that people use. This is a park that... will not have the access a lot of parks we have fight now. It will be accessible... by trail across the bridge in Coralville. Atkins/Coralville bragged today to a bunch of Realtors about the Iowa River Power Dam Project .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 6 Lehman/Unless I see specifically how we can spend $200,000 in the Peninsula effectively, I want to know what we are going to do .... What are we doing with 120 acres with $500,0007 Norton/Might be doing some trail work. Lehman/ Atkins/ Lehman/When you look at the relative use of that park when compared to other park facilities in this community .... Are we better off spending our money in a park that is going to be used by a very small percent of the people? Spend it where people are going to use it. Atkins/Ernie, I truly believe that Peninsula is going to open up ....I think you are going to find people knocking down doors to get into there. Lehman/I don't think the timing is right. Thomberry/ Kubby/ (All talking). Norton/Just some money... for that park .... At judgement of Parks and Recreation. Champion/They can come back next year and tell us what they are going to do with that... we can allocate more money. O'Dounell/I think we should buy $100,000 worth of hay and put it down there. I really do. Norton/Whatever Parks and Recreation thinks needs to be done in lead time down there to get that ready .... O'Donnell/I don't want any plantings down there to be eaten by the deer. Norton/ Kubby/My suggestion isn't until FY03 .... So that the money is there .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 7 Lehman/I don't have a problem with putting it in year 2003... look at it again next year and the following year ..... Thornberry/I just thought the Peninsula Park was suppose to be a wildland, wetland type thing. How much do you have to put in it to make it a natural? .... Weeds are natural .... Norton/ Lehman/Realistically you are not spending this money... saying... worthy of our attention. It is going to be looked at again every single year before we do it .... Presented to you and a contract has to be approved. I don't have a problem with putting it there. O'Donnell/It is also putting the wheels in motion .... Deer .... Lehman/ Vanderhoef/Waterworks Park is listed to come in and we took that out of the 2000 budget? .... What I would be most willing to look at is getting one of those two parks up and moving... and moving the other one clear out and leaving it totally natural and putting it in the out years ..... Lehman/Waterworks Park is certainly going to have a lot more usage to start with .... Vanderhoef/ Champion/I am not willing to put more than $100,000 in that budget .... I have trouble borrowing money for seeding .... Vanderhoef/ Champion/I would rather wait. I have money borrowing money for seed. I really do. Norton/ Lehman/I don't think this is a biggie... addressed every single year until that park is done. Are there four people who want to put that in for year 2003? All fight, then we don't .... What is next? Vanderhoef/In the meantime I would really like to send it back to parks and Recreation and have them make a priority between the two parks and which way they would like to go and which one they would be willing to put off.... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 Lehman/Okay Karen, next. Thornberry/ Kubby/...#4 on the second page about taping the informal meetings ..... At one point there was firm talk about it. Thornberry/There was talk on that but I don't believe there was four votes for it .... You didn't know whether you wanted it taped or not .... Benefits.. problems. I don't think there was four votes to tape informal meetings .... Champion/I think we should televise them. Norton/I don't think they are leaming as much .... As they might if they watched this one. Thomberry/There would be a lot more phone calls and things done outside this informal body... if it were taped. Champion/...I think you would soon forget that camera is there. O'Donnell/What is the cost? Kubby/ ....$4,000. Helling/It has been several years .... Champion/ Thornberry/There has got to be some time that we can get together and talk about things out oftelevision's eye. Vanderhoef/...concem... on a television .... someone listening .... And if they only hear part of the discussion .... When they are here, they hear all of the questions, all of the answers .... That is the way to educate people .... O'Donnell/I don't think it would be beneficial. Champion/But you are not giving them any information at a councilmeeting .... Thornberry/...we have discussion .... Norton/...I am of two minds .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 9 Lehman/Other thing that concems me .... I think there are a number of questions... I will ask at an informal meeting that I probably am a little uncomfortable with... If on t.v .... I am going to be a little more careful... I think it is very important at informal meetings that we be very candid with each other. That we say what we think ...... Vanderhoef/Part of being the devil's advocate .... I want to be sure that we all are hearing the same thing .... Norton/It might be a little constraining .... Have a work session that is on a particular topic .... Particular issue .... Where the topic was narrower .... Thornberry/ .... I look at this thing... no brainer .... We never know what is going to be the hot button .... I think it is either all or nothing .... Lehman/If we have an issue .... Right now... big enough topic... televise it. Kubby/...Memo about the Transit Reroute Study .... Drivers and managers... might be a really important topic. Lehman/Might be but they had their hearing on that and three people showed up .... Kubby/...good one to televised... presented by staff what the reroute study is about. O'Donnell/Anybody who wants can come to the work session .... There is nothing confidential about the Tuesday night meeting .... Thomberry/ Lehman/All right. The suggestion is we televise the informal meetings. I don't think I find four people who want to do that. On the other hand, I don't think that I find folks who would object to doing occasional meetings .... Norton/Highlight issues .... O'Donnell/I also want to publish the cost of these special meetings, the work sessions that we are going to televise. Lehman/There is one coming up right now .... P.h. on the budget .... should take 20 -30 minutes to go through that budget... regular meeting... for you to walk through that budget, item by item and perhaps... indicate...we did this and not this .... This is something the public would be interested in .... I am not so sure that it wouldn't be really worth the public' s time at the hearing before we start public discussion. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 10 Champion/I think it would be a good idea. Kubby/...visuals .... Lehman/We have the capabilities and talents to do that .... explain to the public what Steve explains to us. Thornberry/ Norton/...pies .... Kubby/...different from other than a chart .... Lehman/ Norton/Also to help people understand the difference between the General Fund and Enterprise Funds .... Atkins/Fine .... Lehman/In this case you would actually be presenting it to council with the public having the opportunity to hear the same things we have been listening to the last 304 meetings. Atkins/...You would open the heating and you would say to Don and I- Lehman/Give us an overview. Atkins/We will come around to the microphone and use overheads .... Intended to be a summary and the summary would be .... Funds... set the stage for it. Then we can make a presentation .... What you want to say .... The General Fund represents... $32.4 million in public expenditure... here are the highlights some of the major issues that council has dealt with .... Lehman/And point out the significant changes .... Personnel .... Norton/...issue of increasing tax rate .... Atkins/Sure .... Norton/One of the points... I hear... Dick Meyer... rollback is not likely to be 56.4% anymore .... All of those issues .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 11 Vanderhoef/ Atkins/There is a thought that they would draw a base line and freeze it at a certain point... no lower than the 55% ..... Vanderhoef/ Atkins/Intended to be a summary .... Substance of the budget .... Kubby/ Atkins/ Lehman/ ..... But these are the kinds of things you can expect to be changed .... A little of the rationale .... Encourage council folks... emphasized, let Steve know .... Atkins/We may be a little skinny on graphics this time... short time frame. Lehman/Are you okay on that? Norton/...quite a few people inquiring about the new assessments .... Lehman/When we talk tax rates, that we are talking .... Portion of taxes used to retire debt, not the actual taxes on the property. Atkins/It will be important ....If you sense I missed a point, say it to us ....If I miss an issue, tell me about it ..... Lehman/For example, Scott Blvd.- First Avenue discussion, that is certainly a big one .... I wouldn't go through the CIP .... Highlight the major points .... Atkins/For example .... CIP is balanced... $9 million in additional debt... major changes... Lehman/...started at significantly higher amounts of money... pared down to these numbers... Norton/ Arkins/Today, one of the realtors asked what is happening on Mormon Trek... current position... Thornberry/...going to affect somebody. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 12 Atkins/Formal presentation by Don and I introducing the Year2000 budget, identify CIP. Lehman/... Take the time it needs. (All talking). Atkins/I think 20 minutes. Lehman/Other thing we could do... If there are points that we would like further clarified... Steve .... Explain a little more .... Norton/ Arkins/20 minutes for the presentation. You may engage me in a discussion which may take longer and that is okay... Public finds that interesting ....I will take you through pretty much step by step. Okay. Kubby/Ask Channel 4 .... Play it .... Lehman/Biggest thing with this... talking to folks watching this... they don't have much background .... Atkins/ CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-26 SIDE 2 Lehman/All fight, what is next? Go through the CIP? Kubby/Going through the CIP .... All the Xs... the non-GO projects (1/26/99 handout). (All talking). Lehman/...talking about the funding source, not the project .... The new one .... Norton/You want to work with the old one, I think ..... 1/26 .... (All talking). Kubby/Start with the year 2000 .... Norton/Let's look at them... 1/26, year 2000, the Xs on sewer mains and so forth .... Atkins/To the best of my knowledge they remain .... That $300,000 and $170- is in effect almost an annual appropriation we set aside for routine kinds of projects. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 13 Champion/The transit interchange, has that been... nixed? Atkins/The transit interchange project was a federal grant .... We redesigned it. In the mean time... mall up for sale... didn't want to make a commitment... Perspective purchasers has indicated they are willing to work with us. Is the grant in jeopardy? The answer is yes .... Waited a long time... Is approximately a $200,000 project .... Use it or lose it. Vanderhoef/They thought we could reapply yet for another year. Atkins/We can reapply... We had until September of this year to make a commitment .... '99. It may be enough time. Vanderhoef/Were there four votes to go ahead with the third floor of the Civic Center? Lehman/Yes, that was a go. Atkins/I am going to bring the project back to you to show you design and all of that... You said go on the project. That is what I understood. O'Donnell/I think we had five votes. Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Arkins/Are we going back through the General Fund projects7 Lehman/No... we are going through funding .... Karen would like to talk about projects that we are funded with user fees .... Kubby/ Lehman/let's go through the user fees .... First... Kubby/Year 2001 .... Arkins/Page 5 of 6, year 01. Kubby/...Court Hill Trunk Sewer .... Opening up land east of Scott Blvd. I just don't think we are ready to do that ....when there is lots of other land on the east side that is already sewered .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 14 Atkins/Does that have any bearing on the Northeast Plan? .... Taft, Scott, Lower West Branch? Vanderhoef/Windsor Ridge is what I was wondering about. Can Windsor Ridge continue to build out without this sewer? Thomberry/We kind of need Rick Fosse .... Atkins/...Chuck .... Vanderhoef/I want to understand before I would consider moving that one. Atkins/Circle it and come back to it ....round up Chuck. Kubby/Abbey Lane Sanitary Sewer... Did that get moved? Atkins/I thought we did. Vanderhoef/We moved that one out. Lehman/We moved it up, part of it we took out... We split it to do the stormwater portion in Kiwanis Park and Rick said he was comfortable with waiting on the portion to be done on the other side. Atkins/That is stormwater. Karen is talking about sanitary. Lehman/Oh. Atkins/I don't have that. Kubby/It was in the narrative. Atkins/I thought we pushed that out. (All talking). Norton/I can't find Abbey Lane anywhere. Thornberry/Here comes Rick .... Court Hill Trunk Sewer. Fosse/ Kubby/What land it will help ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 15 Fosse/That will help the area that is east of Scott Blvd .... begin in Court Hill Park .... Follow Ralston Creek out and get underneath the South Branch Detention Basin Dam .... Pipes are sized appropriately upstream of the dam. It is that stretch between the dam and Court Hill Park we are running out of capacity in. Kubby/Is Windsor Ridge already currently sewered? Fosse/It is sewered. Part of gravity and part of it with a lift station. Eventually that lift station in Windsor Ridge will be eliminated and parts of that flow will go down into that Scott Blvd. Tnmk Sewer that was built a couple of years ago. Kubby/So this is really opening up new land for development? Fosse/Yes and it is also... flow measurements on that stretch of sewer to see how close we are to that limit of the existing capacity and there may be enough capacity for some land to develop east of Scott Blvd... or we may be pushing that limit now ..... Sewer...care facilitate... will drain into this water shed. Thornberry/ Fosse/We are measuring .... I do know that there is some interest in that comer of Scott and Rochester for redevelopment but that needs to be sewered down through this direction. Thornberry/ Fosse/...underneath the Scott Blvd. Basin .... mubby/ Vanderhoef/So we need to upgrade that section... to take the capacity for the rest of these we are building. Fosse/ Vanderhoef/I don't see we can put it off. Norton/ Kubby/When is the Scott? .... Fosse/You mean the Captain First Avenue thing? Kubby/The sewer? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 16 Fosse/I don't know off the top of my head. Vanderhoef/Scott Park Area Trunk Sewer is in 2002 is what I see here .... Kubby/My concem... we have land that is already sewered and already have streets that is not yet fully developed and I would rather have that wait a few years... so that we don't have more Windsor Ridges out on the east side... gaps in-between development that make it real inefficient to provide services. Thornberry/ Kubby/Until we fill up what we have got .... Thomberry/If this Court Hill Trunk Sewer is already close to capacity, that means there can't be a whole lot more building going on .... Kubby/ Thomberry/This is 2001 .... Wait and get his appraisal on that before we move it completely out .... Vanderhoef/Windsor Ridge cannot expand very much because of that constraint. Fosse/It is not to the point where we are limiting development out there .... Vanderhoef/ Fosse/We have not had any surcharging problems on this line .... It is proactive aspect of it... Sooner or later we are going to. Vanderhoef/...We would be adding new possibilities for platting and development with new sewer lines .... Thornberry/ Fosse/ Thornberry/ Norton/What needs to be done sewer-wise to finish off Windsor Ridge? Fosse/It may be possible to finish out Windsor Ridge without improving this stretch in here. We need to get out flow monitors in there and get a good rain event. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 17 Norton/...This does facilitate development at Scott and Rochester. Fosse/And all the intervening properties. Norton/ Kubby/It can also have people ...annexing into Iowa City .... Thornberry/ Norton/...Taft .... Fosse/North of Court Street. We just extended Court Street last summer ..... Thornberry/ Kubby/I want land to develop in an orderly fashion, not have something out on Taft and American Legion developing before we develop all this in~ll stuff.... That is how you manage development. Thornberry/You are limiting building by your capacities. Norton/Trying to keep it tight.. more efficient... before we go further out. Thornberry/But you have got everything in-between there .... Kubby/Rick said land that is town and zoned, there is capacity. Thornberry/I don't think there is capacity for all the infill that could be happening north and west of Windsor Ridge. Vanderhoef/ ....North ....That area north of Rochester that is west of what would be Scott Extended. Where is that sewer7 Fosse/That drains... through North Branch Basin .... Into a sewer... goes fight past the Civic Center out here .... Vanderhoef/There is enough capacity in that... open up the development in that area .... 7 Fosse/That watershed also has a finite capacity. There is a stretch.. Glendale... up... North Branch Dam... need to consider upgrading as well. Norton/I need a map. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 18 Vanderhoef/ Fosse/Off to the noaheast. Vanderhoef/What I am hearing is that there are two areas that have some constraint... Thornberry/Why is Court Hill Trunk Sewer on the line item for year 20017 .... Fosse/To get this area upgraded and to be proactive on that whole sewer issue for that east side. (Refers to map) .... Care facility .... Once the sewer is in to that point, you have kind of opened up this whole area here. Norton/ Fosse/Between Scott and Rochester .... Vanderhoef/ Fossd If you open that whole area up... Vanderhoef/Show me where the Glendale capacity problem might be. Fosse/(Refers to map). Vanderhoef/..then it goes across First Avenue to service- Fosse/The northeast area .... I don't think that is in the plan yet .... We are getting more flow monitoring devices .... A tool we haven't had until recent years... Do more flow monitoring... give you better information .... Next year. Champion/It is... $800,000 .... By putting this off for a few years, will that help keep the sewer rates from skyrocketing? .... Norton/...we had that same problem with Willow Creek. Fixing it ceaainly does open up land on the west .... Also serves... get jammed fm already constrained... If you do this it will facilitate some inside development but it will also tempt people out further and how do you manage that? Fossd One advantage to having more areas open for development is there is more competition amongst the developers .... Initial cost of development may drop there .... Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 19 Fosse/(Refers to map) .... When this intervening property is developed... sewer will follow this creek up and eliminate this lift station fight there .... Norton/The medical facility .... comer of Amefican Legion and Scott .... That drains? Fosse/Comes down along Scott Blvd... Village Green South and into the sewer... Vanderhoef/ ....Talking about land that is already in the city... fringe area .... Fosse/ Norton/I sure hate to tempt development beyond Captain Irish or Scott... before we take care of on the inside. Thornberry/ Vanderhoef/If we are talking about opening up the area in the northeast with Captain Irish and Scott... this is where I would choose to go with the earlier development and this land is also already within the city ....It would decrease that possibility of urban sprawl .... Norton/You want to put in this Court Extension? Vanderhoef/...I might choose to go with Court Hill .... Thomberry/ Norton/Scott and Rochester comer probably is going to develop fairly promptly .... Fosse/We got the two water shed issues...South Branch Ralston Creek and North Branch... we can really focus on that for some flow monitoring and try to make some prediction on what we have for remaining capacity... growth... Next year... we will have a lot better information to base that on. Lehman/ .... Find out what the flow is .... Fosse/ Lehman/In the mean time we leave it alone .... Kubby/Other .... Abbey Lane sanitary sewer and how that is different from stormwater? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 20 Fosse/The Abbey Lane... we put the sanitary sewer in (refers to map)... to this point fight there... We still have this stretch to get it underneath the interstate ....Until there is a firm commitment... a project we don't need to move ahead on... Vanderhoef/That is the piece we took out. Lehman/All fight. That is it ....Next. Yucuis/Abbey Sanitary Sewer... renamed it .... Rohret South Sewer in 2001 .... Kubby/Didn't we scratch that off in earlier discussions? Yucuis/No .... Changed it to Rohret and kept it in 2001. The Abbey Lane Storm Sewer we moved out completely and then we-did a new project called Abbey Lane but it is near Kiwanis Park and that was $250,000. Kubby/I would suggest that we take this $800,000 Rohret South Sewer out .... Sanitary sewer. Norton/ Kubby/Keep the shortened storm water project at $250- and take out the $800- Atkins/The Mormon Trek Abbey Storm Sewer was $750-. Rick brought it back... cheaper shorter term solution. You took $500- out and left $250- in .... On your new memo because that is a change .... Norton/When did this Rohret South name come up? Lehman/Design work is compete on it .... Norton/Move it out or delete it? (All talking). Thornberry/If we need it... it is ready to go. Lehman/All fight. Vanderhoef/On some of our things we are real specific whether it is stormwater or whether it is sanitary sewer. I wished we could be a little more consistent on that and I guess what I would like to ask, Are there any water projects that could be moved out a year or two? .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 21 Atkins/I am looking at 2000 fight now. The Hwy 6 Sidewalk Drainage .... but that is storm sewer .... Abbey Lane Storm Sewer, we took care of that .... South Sycamore Regional Stormwater Detention. Lehman/We don't want to mess with that one. Kubby/North and the south .... Those are two that are not immediate that we are doing proactive maintenance ..... Atkins/I am in 01 now. Lehman/That is an engineering decision about delaying the dredging of that .... Vanderhoef/On those two, it was like and we are going to get after these .... There weren't backup consequences to the fact of where they are at this point. Atkins/I am on 01, Beer Creek Storm Sewer. I don't think you want to get rid of that. Vanderhoef/...whenever Iowa Avenue goes .... Look at phasing .... Appears to me that Iowa Avenue will probably move on out. Thornberry/Out where? Vanderhoef/A year or so. Atkins/I am into 02 now .... Whenever we do road improvements, we almost automatically either repair or fix... storm sewers .... Norton/Where did those two dredgings go? Atkins/There is the North Basin and the South Basin. Vanderhoef/ ....year 2003... South Branch... Kubby/Those are both out far enough .... Lehman/All right. Next. Norton/When you talk about the money for permitting, what does that literally mean, Steve7 .... Arkins/Permitting is $500,000... engage a consulting engineering firm to do it in- house... Whatever is required to file a plan with the feds... Sanitary sewer and water projects are under the Safe Water-Drinking Water Act .... State administers This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 22 those .... EPA has not said we are going to let the state do stormwater. So we must file an application that says here is our stormwater, here is how much we go, here is where it is all going and here is how we are going to fix it and that is a plan .... $500,000 to my knowledge .... This intended to say okay feds, here is our plan, now grant us a permit to proceed to do that .... The water ultimately finds it way into rivers and streams... EPA Permitting under... 01. EPA Storm Water Permitting... Lehman/Do we have some more discussion before I take five minutes? Vanderhoef/ Atkins/We had scheduled until 3:00. Are you still planning on doing that? Lehman/I personally have no further comments .... Atkins/ [Council Break] Budget Discussion - General Questions 99-27 S2 1. Norton/ .... Tax rate .... I wanted to ask if we were going with that kind of increases? Atkins/That policy, those proposals that you had of tax rates, I made the assumption .... Of 10-10-10 and that is $40 million worth of debt over the four year life of that plan. The actual number based on all the reductions that you made is $36- It varies a little bit ....11-7-10-9, averaging out to about 9. Those tax rates will have to be amended. Lehman/ Atkins/They will go down a tad bit. Norton/Between 02 and 03 .... 99-2000, 7% increase, then a 3.4% increase; then 45, then .3% .... Atkins/...that is a year that a bunch of debt goes off. Lehman/The percentage used to retire debt goes from 14% in 99 to in excess of 22%... increase in the amount that is used to retire debt by 50% over a four year period .... Norton/This tax rate... on Chart 13. What have you made assumptions on the employee benefits thing? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 23 Atkins/What we do with employee benefits is that .... multi-year labor agreements... accurately project that .... Make assumption.. Often more who the employee is .... We feel pretty comfortable that is pretty accurate .... We also make certain assumptions... increase in health insurance .... The cost of the benefit because we are self-funded .... Social Security... state changed the IPERS pension law .... There is a phase in over a number of years. Champion/Have you anticipated a federally increase is social security taxes? Atkins/No, we did not... base wage is the thing that changes .... They keep boosting that base wage .... 2. Kubby/I had a General Fund question on page 26 on the budget... FY99 and the FY2000 total General Fund Expenditures .... That seems like a really slight increase. How is it possible to be able to afford wage increases and benefit increases? .... Atkins/Most of it is at 94%, that is the big change ..... Kubby/New employees that are not enterprise employees. Atkins/Six police officers ....only about $100,000 effect directly on the budget .... Kubby/Maintenance workers .... Clerk typist, library .... Atkins/Library was substantially a trade-off.... Kubby/Webmaster .... Atkins/Webmaster is distributed throughout the funds .... Norton/ Atkins/Don, page 26...questions is total expenditures in 99-2000 do not go up... big things is 94% factor .... Kubby/ Yucuis/The current budget proposal for 2000 is 27 pay periods. Atkins/We set money aside... We planned for the 27 pay periods several years ago .... Yucuis/Capital outlay accounts for some of that .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 24 Lehman/99-2000. Yucuis/99 budget has carryovers from FY98 .... My assumption... original budget was closer to $30 million something and we had carryovers from 98 to 99 .... FY2000 figure because of the 94% .... Looked at commodities, services and charges... looking at more closer to a number... below the 99 budget because it has some carryover. Kubby/Was it carryover that carryovered again?... Did we spend that carryover in 99? .... Yucuis/If it is not going to be spent in 99, it is not going to be carryovered again. Atkins/And we still are in 99 .... Yucuis/ Vanderhoef/ Yucuis/...cash balances should be higher .... Should be able to account for that. Kubby/27 pay periods... spread it out. Atkins/Began to accumulate cash .... Champion/Have you ever thought about going to monthly payrolls? Atkins/We pay by the hour and it is for hours worked? .... Just where is falls ....We do bi-weekly...every two weeks .... Norton/What do you build into the budget for just general inflationary increases? Atkins/We send it to the departments, tell us what kind of increases in products? .... Most of it is based on history ..... Wages... we have adequate for us to collectively bargain responsibly with our employees... A general increase, no, I try to avoid that. Thomberry/300 employees? Atkins/600 full time. Our payroll... see in the neighborhood of 1,000 people... contracts with all sons of folks.. temporary... do all the payroll for Mayor's Youth .... Norton/..how many did you add this year? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 25 Atkins/13 ....all sources of funds ....Our total number of employees .... 582.6 ..... Norton/ ....We have been about one per thousand .... Atkins/Financial trend... we measure the number of employees per thousand population... You will find we are always running about .8 to .9 employee per thousand. That is an okay measure .... Norton/ Atkins/Policing in Cedar Rapids, they are 40% bigger and have 200 people in the police department, three times the size of our department .... Thornberry/ Atkins/We hired loads of kids to cut the grass .... Thornberry/ Arkins/Our payroll... 1,000 people during the course of a year .... Those folks don't enjoy benefits .... Labor agreements .... Thornberry/Increase... on temporary part-time... $7.00 to $8.50? Atkins/Out temporary part-time number of employees is not going to change a whole beck of a lot. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-27 SIDE 1 Atkins/We were just simply... losing too many people... Get those kids... summer help... like to get them back a couple of years .... Vanderhoef/Tell me again the change on the temporary pan-time? Atkins/$8.50... it varied .... Library .... Where we were having trouble is our Parks and Recreation and Public Works .... Vanderhoef/I thought Library just went up. Atkins/They did. They increased theirs also ..... We know we are going to have some library folks go wait a minute .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 26 Lehman/All fight, anything of any other consequence that we should be coveting .... With the p.h .... Atkins/You can go down .... Lehman/For the time being we are done unless something pops up at the p.h. that we want to go over. [Council Break 3:10 PM to 5:00 PM] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 27 PCRB 99-27 S1 Lehman/Does everybody know everybody else? Champion/We could introduce ourselves. (Introductions). Lehman/And we don't have an agenda for this meeting so I guess pretty following the way we'd like to. Do you have any preference as to the format? Farrant/Well what we'd though if it was alright with council .... Topics for discussion sheet-did everyone get that? .... (All talking). Cohen/Our administrative assistant, Sandy Baur, is here and also our legal council, Doug Russell. What I have thought, if you would to so kind to listen to us for a few minutes. We have prepared responsibilities of the PCRB under the ordinance with John Watson who wanted to talk for just a few minutes on. Pat Farrant would do the overview of our work in 1998 and then we would have Doug Russell, our legal council, also give just a briefing of the perspectives and concems on our part. And then we can get into discussions and whatever else we want to get into after that if that would be all fight. John, would you like to... John Watson/ .... Well I guess before I hand out my handout, let me just say on behave of the board, and this is for me, this is not the message of- I just want to thank you for forming this commission personally and for selecting this fine group of individuals it's probably the most enjoyable and rewarding board or commission I've sat on. And it's not because it's been easy but it's an extraordinary group of people that I've found quite dedicated and feel the work we're doing is very important for the city, for its citizens .... I want to give our thanks to Doug, we may be missing soon. He had an interview with the governor, yesterday I understand, and he's up for appointment as a judge, and we're hoping good things for him ...... And Sandy will be gone for several weeks, with a surgery procedure so we're going to miss her for a few weeks, but she'll be back. We have a ..... overview of what the ordinance says are responsibilities, and this is a combination of words fight out of the ordinance There are three broad functions or responsibilities and one obviously is to review all complaints of police misconduct. In order to do that we review the Chief' s report and we do that in a way we hope is fair and through and accurate. That has taken up most of our time ..... There have been a lot of complaints, I think as your aware, a lot of them were from one ..... and we had to deal with one after another as did the chief and his staff and you all to. Since that time they've evened out somewhat and we're at a level that we are a little better able to control and work This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 28 on ..... After we do our deliberations we issue a public report to the city council, and that pretty well sums up-there's lots of rules and limitations and guidelines that go into that. But basically we receive that chief's report, we review it and then we issue a report. The second responsibility in the ordinance is the help to chief and city manager and city council evaluate the overall performance of the Iowa City Police DeparUnent. And there's several things that the ordinance says that we're to do to do that. One is to maintain a monitoring system for tracking complaints, to provide an annual report to the city council, to review practices, procedures and policies and make recommendations for change, and lastly .... recommend ways for the department to improve community relations and be more responsive to community needs. The third of responsibility is also, especially in the preface of the ordinance, it's a function to assure the citizens of Iowa City that the Iowa City Police Department performance is in keeping with community standards ..... one is to seek and accept comments and opinions and advice and we do that both unsolicited and solicited .... We have had experts .... talk to us about specific subjects including people from the department as well as people from outside the department about specific issues. In addition people have come on their own to talk to us about concerns and to give us advice ..... And the second thing is to hold periodic community forums in which we can gather the public opinion, public input and also use as a forum to form a vote. We've held two, and as Pat will talk about, we hope that we can have another one soon. So those are basically the responsibilities that we feel are our charge as your board ..... Cohen/I though it might go smoother if we went ahead with Pat's and went ahead with Doug's and then we can open up and just continue talking from there ifthat's all right. Thank you John. Farrant/I'm going to run quickly through a fairly concise list of the things that we've done to try to do the work that it's our understanding that the ordinance asks us to do. I agree with John this has been one heck of an experience ..... The group has not always agreed, but it's been probably... the best functioning volunteer group ..... One of the things that we wanted to make clear to the council is the seriousness with which we have approached this assignment. We started with a tabula rasa in the beginning. There was no precedent that we could identify for how we ought to do what the ordinance asked us to do. We looked, as I know we all did when you were putting the ordinance together for a .... I organized it into a couple of categories, what we did to get ourselves organized and get our administrative tasks in order, and then what we did to try and truly learn what we needed to know, and then finally what we've done .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 29 We began less than two years ago around September first, 1997 and held our first meeting ten days later and two weeks after that we hired our legal ..... ultimately interviewing four and hiring Doug, which has proven to be a wonderful choice. Simultaneously we worked first with Marian, then with Sandy, to set up our working assumptions then our routines because we wanted to do things in the most professional way we could, and be consistent with the city's procedures and policies. We drafted bylaws .... worked on the standard operating ..... We revised the complaint form to make it more Iowa City specific and to reflect some of what we learned from the kinds of problems the people encountered when they were trying to fill out the form that was originally constructed ..... our outreach we also wrote and arranged or producing and distributing a brochure that goes along with the complaint form ..... Another issue that quickly became important was to establish mediation procedures on the assumption that some complaints could be resolved by formal mediation and so we developed some procedures and some ternplates and then identified a pool of appropriate mediators and chose four or five who would be willing to serve in that capacity when the need arose. And then we worked with our office support to establish consistent correspondence templates that we communicated with will be communicated with in a consistent way ..... We are still leaming. Simultaneous with that... realized...needed to leam substantively. We did a lot of reading... about PCRBs .... We all attended the Citizen Police Academy .... Fascinating .... We had presentations by the chief... department staff... city staff... people outside the city .... Larger context of what the PCRB is. What we have actually done. Since September '97, 60 regular meetings .... None shorter than two hours .... Scheduling a meeting every Tuesday .... We established procedures for reviewing chief s reports and for requesting and examining supplementary information .... Trying to figure out a format for preparing our own reports ....Talented writers ....Recursive process to get to the report... accepted by all. We received 26 reports on complaints through February and we have issued pubic reports on 25 of them, one is pending. We have sustained... there were about 60 allegations .... We have sustained only three of those allegations and two of the sustainings were sustainings of the chief having previously sustained of the allegation .... Ration of allegations to sustainings is pretty low. I reckon .... we have spent between six and thirty person hours per complaint .... We eheduled two name clearing hearings, held one but canceled the other .... We held two public forums .... We have a third planned for spring .... Doug Russell/Eleanor Dilkes prepared a memo from you... outlined our discussions concerning outstanding issues of procedure for the PCRB. I wanted to give a brief outline of the position of the board on these manners .... I have been with the board... almost since it began.,.. hardworking, careful, honest group of people .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 30 A lot of our work is in close session because it deals with matters protected by Iowa Open Meetings law and Public Records law .... I want to assure you that they are very careful in what they are doing .... They are acting in good faith in their meetings and discussion with the City Attomey .... I think our meeting on Monday... was a very useful one... We have some differences of opinion and that is why the board is here to meet with you... I want to run through their position on the issues that are outlined .... The first issue is the question of providing the board with a means to identify specific officers, complained of in complaints so they may monitor patterns of behavior by certain offices and patterus of types of complaints .... Shift on which they occur .... Until recently the board was provided with a numbering system that was specific to each officer... so we could know who we were referring to .... The board needs the information for that purpose. The board decided... it would not release the names of an officer even if the complaint were sustained .... They would not release the names .... They understand the need to maintain confidentiality .... We are now in a position where we are not receiving a specific identifying number from the Police Department .... Concerns raised by the City Attomey are the confidentiality of the officers and we understand that... We think the information should come to the board so they can identify patterns .... We think the board should be allowed to consider that information in determining the credibility of the statement of officers in a particular case. We agree the board should not use that information for the purpose of proving misconduct .... The board believe that purpose A, tracking and discussing credibility, is an appropriate purpose. Whereas using it as evidence .... Is not an appropriate use .... We have discussed some possible SOP changes .... Concerns of con~dentiality .... One would be a new operating procedure that would specifically state that the board shall not use the fact that a previous complaint was filed against an officer as evidence of misconduct by that officer in support of a decision concerning a pending complaint ..... A similar SOP could say the board shall not use a specific identifying number of an officer in its public report .... The board would be willing to have a dual system... a system of tracking which is confidential and yet they have a reporting method .... Public report ....And identified would be preserved. There are six issues on our list and there has developed... an issue #7 .... That is the question of whether the board does have the fight or should keep the fight to name an officer in a sustained complaint and that is a matter that has been discussed with the City Attomey. The fight for the board to name an officer in a sustained complaint is present in the ordinance. The board feels it is appropriate to keep that authority .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 31 The second issue on our list is the question of the two distinct complaint forms. The police department has a written complaint form for use by citizens. The Police Review Board has a written complaint form as well. They are different. They go to different places...treated differently. At present the board has a concern...the complainant make an intelligent choice about which form to use .... Our discussions have centered around... 'Dee Norton Solution'... have an information sheet or card integral to each complaint form .... That says this is the Police Department form .... This is what happens. This is the PCRB complaint form... this is what happens so they can make an informed choice about what to do .... We think can be solved simply with that information sheet. The second question under the distinct complaint forms ....At present the board only receives the complaints that are made on its form ....There is an unknown number of complaints filed with the Police Department on their form. The board would like to have information about those forms filed with the Police Department in a form of a periodic report from the Chief of Police .... To monitor the nature and category and types of complaints so that we can have a more complete picture of complaints against the department so that we can more accurately report to the city council about what citizen concerns are .... It is my understanding the boards concern is simply to monitor police behavior and complaints about police behavior .... They also have no request for complaints that are made verbally to the city manager, to the city council, or others. Simply the second forms complaint .... The third issue is the fight of the complainant to appear at summary dismissal hearings. This is a matter where the SOP was amended by the city council recently with clear assurances that it could be changed again if appropriate. The board's concem here is not so much the format of the receipt of the information from the complainant on this issue of summary dismissal issue .... The board doesn't really insist on having notice given to the complainant to attend a heating. What they want is the information from the complainant on this issue. So they think it might be appropriate if the SOPs included some indicated methods of doing this. The board is willing to forego the possibility of a p.h. because it wants to protect the identity of the officer in an unsustained complaint .... The board also wants the complainant to be heard... There are possibilities that a complaint may be an ongoing one .... There are some fact questions to be examined about whether the complaint is timely or not .... What the board would be willing to do is look at SOPs that would allow them to interview the complainant by subcommittee .... Hold an e.s. to hear the merits .... To receive written submissions, or tape recorded... videotaped submissions or to conduct an independent investigation under authority under the ordinance just to get at the facts about timeliness or identity of the person complained of.... Compromise... The last three issues all have to do with deadlines in the ordinance for different persons to do different things. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 32 #4 is a deadline for the chief or city manager to submit their investigation report to the PCRB. The deadline now is 30 days, the city manager recommends 90 days. The PCRB recommends 60 days. We do not recommend a non-specific deadline such as in a timely manner .... All the deadlines may be extended upon application and permission granted. Our position is 60 .... Issue #5 is the complaint filing deadline. It is not 60 days, we ask it to be increased to 90 days .... City attomey and PCRB are in agreement. Issue #6 is the deadline for the PCRB to submit its public report to the city council. The deadline is now 30 days, we ask for 45 days .... Under the present rules, the time lines have us go from complaint to public report in two months. Under what the PCRB proposes, it would be 3 V2 months. Under the City At9torney's request it could be a month longer than that .... We are concerned... they get a reply that is timely .... Sensitive to needs of all participants... to do a thorough job .... Correct result is reached .... I would like to say .... I have enjoyed working with them .... Cohen/ Lehman/This was a new venture for the city council .... Hours and hours and hours trying to put this together... important... We crafted it, I think, as well as we could... We made changes .... Agonized with this... because we felt it was important... We thoroughly appreciate the effort you folks have done on this ..... taken your jobs very very seriously ....On behalf of the council, to start with, thank you very much. I think this is a good meeting... visit with each other ....Where we would like to go ....Eleanor... is there anything you would like ....Do you have any comments .... That you would like to make? Dilkes/I think the memo pretty much says it. In my mind... appears .... PCRB... in agreement as to what will work. With respect to identification of officers, the resolution outlined by Doug... was accepted to me. As were the other possible solutions he identified with respect to the other issues. Lehman/Do any of the council people have any comments they would like to make? Let' s just start with #1. Identifying officers. At what point in the process does the board feel they need identification of the officer? Watson/If you are talking about the deliberation process, I am not sure we would need the identification at any time.. unless there was a credibility question .... I think it is fight that we protect the right of the officers but not the evidence... issue of credibility... may be relevant .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 33 Lehman/...Emie Lehman's perspective .... Faimess... It would appear to me that if you are able to make a determination on the merits of a complaint .... Issue your finding .... I have a problem with you knowing who it was after you have made your decision. I do believe .... I do think if I had 12 complaints and I had six of them involving the same person .... I would be unable to be totally fair in assessing that complaint ....For me knowing who the officer was after the event ....I think you can do ....tracking those folks. But prior to you making your decision, I don't think you would want the names of the officer .... Watson/...we don't need to know who it is but what might be relevant is if that person has 16 allegations of profanity against that officer and it wasn't from the same person .... I think we have the ability .... To make those kind of distinctions .... We think that would be important to know .... Farrant/What we want to do is go back to what we had which was simply a unique identifier for each officer without anyway to link that to who it really was ....We have never gotten names of officers .....We have no idea who the officers are that come to us .... Lehman/For example... same officer has five complaints for use of profanity, do you want the identifying number or whatever before you make your decision? Farrant/Yes. Lehman/I don't think that is appropriate .... Don't you think you should make the determination based on whether or not it is appropriate? .... Farrant/We had a similar problem with the repeat complainant .... We worked very hard to balance the fact that his complaints sometimes seemed frivolous... Tried to take each one of them seriously... Vanderhoef/That as long as the people who have the responsibility for discipline have that information .... Tracked by name or number in the Police Department, for you to have the number up font is not the way to go .... It is real appropriate for the chief and city manager to have those pieces of information to track that officer .... Champion/I think totally different. I think part of their job is to monitor what is going on with the police and find ways to improve it ....I think they should have some ways to identify officers .... Norton/ .... It struck me the internal people who are doing the investigation certainly know how it was .... Suppose the board decided to not just review the chief' s report but to do some independent investigation. How would they proceed without This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 34 knowing the identity ..... I was originally going to argue to have the identity only late after the investigation but now I am willing to go along with Eleanor's recommendation and the board' s wish to have it and use it appropriately with SOPs to guide it. Kubby/...maybe you can explain why it is helpful for you to have it before the finding .... Farrant/Three possibilities... Officer 1, 2 & 3 .... Each complaint has it identified in a way that you can't track them at all. Or you have... unique identifier ....Or you have names .... Felt very very strong... didn't want names. I cannot see adequately investigating a complaint separate from all other complaints .... I think it is too far removed from reality for me .... I can't imagine us doing a very good job if we were essentially investigating almost anonymously .... Watson/If we decide that we can't have that information, we are deciding ahead of time that it is always irrelevant and always extraneous .... We need to decide that if there are some repeated allegations... find out more about it .... We just feel that it is information that we need to have in order to be thorough fair and accurate for everybody .... Kubby/The ordinance, too, talks a little about external accountability and part of the job... We certainly have some mechanisms for internal accountability .... Your point about patterns can be looked at by management .... Having the PCRB having that information is also part of the external accountability. Thomberry/Knowing the number of an officer .... Credibility of an officer' s statement .... Number of complaints about that officer, you would look at his credibility differently ....If a number of complaints regarding that officer... a department problem ....As opposed to the PCRB's .... Kubby/ ....Do you have a problem with the PCRB having an identifying number that is not their badge number? Thomberry/ Dilkes/I think I told you... worked through the process .... Identified at the beginning what my concems were .... Confidentiality .... They are willing to use an identifier that they get ....Use a system that would not allow identification of the officer by the public ....My second concern was that- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-28 SIDE 1 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 35 Farrant/I cannot tell you... What did we say, we had 60 allegations. There was one where a complainant released a name to the newspaper. It had nothing to do with the board and that was the only one... that I know a name .... We do not in anyway get names. I think that is important ....I think it is essential not to know names. O'Donnell/I just can't agree with the number .... I don't think that I could do it on a non- bias basis .... Lehman/Obviously on the first claim you do not know who the officer .... We have a number and we don't know anything about the officer .... I think I hear you telling us that on subsequent complaints there may be some value to knowing that this is the same officer .....First time around doesn't make any difference. I am sure it would make a difference on the 10-15th time around. Is it important on the second time or the third time? I don't know. Norton/Eleanor had a view .... Gradually I think she and Doug have both come to the conclusion that to have the information early on... thing to do ....Let them do it .... Kubby/There is some irony here .... We have the attorney for us, the attorney for the PCRB and the PCRB saying consistent identifier number on the front end .... O'Donnell/Form your own opinion, Karen. Kubby/ Farrant/One last observation ..... We are willing to make the leap of faith that the department, in an unbiased manner, investigates its own and they know who they are. Why would we not want to give a group of citizens who have demonstrated that they don't have an agenda other than what seems to be implicit in the ordinance would do the same with an artificially constructed set of identifiers .... A little piece of trust ....I think I can say.. I would probably struggle sometimes .... Lehman/Let me ask you this, if I was on the board and the same number appeared 5-6 times .... Whether or not it is sustained .... Does that put up a flag? .... That would put up a flag for me .... Farrant/To me then it would sound more in tune that the chief would send something to the PCRB already with it being sustained. Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 36 Farrant/They know their officers .... we all have positive and negative attributes .... If the chief sees that, I suspect it will come to you as a same concern from him ..... Vanderhoef/This is why I don't think it is necessary for you to have that number until after. Watson/It is an issue of trust... language in the ordinance is very clear that there is an external accountability role of the board .... We know what the record of R. J. is in terms of disciplining and his office... He will do it .... This is a board that is set up... we are not sure the department is holding their officers accountable .... I don't think that will happen in this city... Board... that safety valve for the city .... That is why we exist... To make sure that kind of thing can't happen .... If it does, somebody will say it is happening .....All we can say is we sustain this complaint... and we think there is a pattern here you ought to look into ....That is all the power we have... We can't tell the chief to discipline .... O'Donnell/John, you can accomplish the same thing if you have the number after you reviewed the complaint. Watson/Let us decide that ..... To be fair, thorough and accurate, we need to have all of the information .... Let us decide whether it is relevant or not. Champion/Emie, what do you think? Lehman/I think there is an issue of trust here .... My gut feeling... you have to be more objective... I can see where there may be occasion where knowing that you are talking about the same person may have some benefits to the commission .... Vanderhoef/ Lehman/I don't think this board has ever shown us anything other than a total commitment to doing what is right .... Norton/ ....The people doing the investigation know all about everybody .... Kubby/...they can go to the chief... council with these observations .... Can be reported... But they don't have any power to do anything about it .... That is a crucial point. Thornberry/ .... PCRB responsibilities... John said the number of complaints determined the credibility of the officer' s statements. Watson/I said it could but we don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 37 Dilkes/But we are going to put- The proposal is to put an SOP in place that says that is not appropriate thinking. You cannot think that way. Thornberry/ Dilkes/You cannot consider those allegations as evidence of misconduct and I think one has to- I would trust that their legal counsel would make it very clear to them what that means .... I certainly would bring that to their attention .... Thomberry/Eleanor, how do you know what their thinking process is prior to their making a decision? Dilkes/ Lehman/Eleanor, your position on this is that you have no objection to identifying an officer by number on complaints that are filed after the first one .... Or identifying an officer by a number .... With that information being made available to the board during their deliberations? Dilkes/That is acceptable to me with the institutionalized understanding that we are talking about ....Applies to these people, applies to the next people ....People after them. Lehman/I am going to go with Eleanor ....But I also think when we get to #7 .... I do have some feelings about that ....We should have been visiting earlier ....I do think there has been a lot of effort put forth by you folks .... I don't have any reason to believe that we won't function as well as we have been functioning. Vanderhoef/This is not on the agenda... something .... Reoccurring theme in our conversation... It is about the change-over in the membership of the committee. You don't have any answer for it fight now... Hope... put something in place... to document the information that you had for yourself to get up and running... training for new members to the commission .... Lehman/I have a very difficult time with this number business and I trust you people implicitly ....I guess... my perspeetive ....I really believe there is not a problem .... O'Donnell/It has nothing to do with trust. Lehman/It has everything to do with trust .... For me it does. O'Donnell/...I disagree. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 38 Thornberry/I do have a couple of questions. Do you have any idea on how much money has been spent per complaint and how much- And the number of investigations. You have investigated all of the complaints that were given to you .... But none of the ones that have been given to the Police Department. Have you reviewed any of those? Cohen/A couple of time... Chief has given us an investigation log .... Seen a few things. Thomberry/Actually the number... You don't know how many complaints that they have had that have been logged only to the Police Department without going to the PCRB. But I would like the amount of money that you have spent .... (All talking). Thornberry/How much-how many times you were going to use an attorney .... Kubby/Language here is kind of funny. They don't investigate every complaint. They review every complaint .... They are reviewing every complaint .... It is different. Norton/The legal thing... trying to get procedural issues all straightened out .... Thornberry/I want to know what kind of dollars that we are talking about. O'Donnell/I think it is very important that they have legal advice. Farrant/You might have to amortize... across all of the complaints... Thornberry/ Dilkes/ Karr/I will provide that to you. Mr. Russell...works at an hourly rate. Sandy is through my office. It is all combined in a budget... We can provide that for you. Hoffey/ ....compared to the work the board has done. Thornberry/I just want a number .... I was wondering why you didn't meet with the City Attorney when she requested a meeting? .... Hoffey/Let me respond .... We received a number of recommendations from the City Attorney which came at somewhat of a surprise. We have been waiting for meetings with the city council that you had claimed to have with us and those are continually delayed. So we thought well, we don't know what the city council thinks about those recommendations yet. So why don't we wait and find out and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 39 we did. We came to the meeting... listened to your response to Eleanor's recommendation. That put us into a better position as to what we want to talk to Eleanor about now. But we had to know what some of your positions were and how you felt about those recommendations. And so we waited. Cohen/Remember, our legal counsel had met with Eleanor on several occasions .... That was the other reason.. We knew that the city's position was ..... We didn't know .... That there was really any negotiations to do. Thornberry/City down and having a meeting with the city attorney... committee put together by the city council... City Attorney requests a meeting with you and you are saying no. (All talking). Hoffey/No, not really... We wanted to know what your positions were going to be first .... Thornberry/ Watson/The idea of meeting was our idea .... Changed our mind... We did meet and had a productive meeting. That sums it up. It was our idea to meet with her initially and then we changed our mind... We appointed a committee, they met and it was a very productive setting .... Thornberry/...day before you decided not to meet .... Dilkes/I just want to reiterate what John has said. I think it was a really productive meeting when we did meet .... In general... opening up the lines of communication that need to exist .... Lehman/I think it is important... We are in this together .... Not knowing what we should expect .... I think we are in this thing together .... Hoffey/I think the mayor is getting ready to draw this to a close .... Let me say .... We have a good police department. I think the process we are going through now... help to make it better. Lehman/We felt... that that would be true... PCRBs... have been tremendous tools... for police departments .... I think you give them credibility that we believe they already have, the public may not. Dilkes/One comment... Attomey's presence at their meetings. You have to remember it was my recommendation on their SOPs that the attorney be there all of the time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199 February 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 40 Lehman/ Cohen/We do a lot independent of our attorney, too .... Lehman/Anybody else have any comments? I want to thank you folks for coming. Adjoumed: 7:00 PM. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 11, 1999 WS021199