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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-02-22 TranscriptionFebruary 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 1 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session 4:35 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thomberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Holecek, Franklin, Davidson, Klingaman, Kugler, Schmadeke, Winstead, Head, Logsden, Fowler, Brown, Mollenhauer, Doyle, Neumann, Mitchell. Planning and Zoning Commission: Supple, Bovbjerg, Chait, Ehrhardt. Tapes: 99-28, side 2; 99-29, all; 99-30, all. A complete transcription is available in the City Clerk's office. Joint Meeting with Planning and Zoning Commission 99-28 S1 Lehman/We are going to hear some comments from Sarah... We all received a memo relative to the Saddlebrook issue from the Attorney's Office .... We also received a memo from Karin Franklin indicating how staff feels about this. What I would like to do is to get a synopsis from the Attorney's Office and then a synopsis from Karin and then we will discuss it. My personal feeling .... There have been a number of things change since this was l~tst reviewed by P/Z. If there are four people .... who wish that this be returned to P/Z for them to take another look at it .... I would like to see us send it back to them should they wish to receive it. If there are not four us who wish to return in to P/Z, we can go ahead and finish the p.h. tomorrow night .... I believe P/Z should review it in light of the things we are going to hear from Sarah... and Karin regarding the CZA .... Kubby/Because it is a p.h .... Lehman/If we decide to send it back to P/Z .... defer the hearing tomorrow night until such time we get it back .... Open it but continue it. Holecek/I sent you all a memo on Friday, February 18 .... Basically what I did was talk briefly about the application and that there has been extensive discussions about the type of laws that are applicable to this particular application as well types of considerations that are appropriate or inappropriate for assessing the merits of any rezoning .... I... went through some general principles of zoning law saying that it is a very well settled principle of zoning law that an existing zone is considered to be appropriate with regard to the action of a local legislative body and that an applicant in wishing a rezoning needs to make a case as to why that zone is not appropriate or why their application is appropriate .... If it is valid on its face... there is... a presumption of validity to the act which was prior done in .... 1994... It was rezoned to RS-8 in 1994 .... A valid criteria for assessing the merits of any land use application, you look at the impact of any rezoning action on the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2 environment and the infrastructure... adequacy of the infrastructure to support the requested rezoning... You also asked whether the proposed zoning classification furthers public safety, health and welfare .... Traffic, transportation and congestion concerns... population density, drainage and impact on waterways and surface water drainage. Appropriateness of the permitted land uses for the area being considered... inherent characteristics of the property .... You look at negative extranalities associated with the proposed use such as noise, odors, lights and pollutants... Impact on property values of abutting property and surrounding neighborhood. Whether use is permitted in the proposed rezoning classifications are compatible with existing and proposed uses surrounding area. Whether there is substantial and reasonable grounds have been presented and discussed to justify the rezoning or to deny the rezoning and while the rezoning permit the owner reasonable use of the property .... I also discussed certain invalid criteria .... Ownership of the subject properties .... Those are not valid considerations when determining whether the property that is requested to be rezoned .... Whether the requested rezoning is an appropriate reuse to the subject property. You don't look at private financing for the development of the subject property .... Housing credits... income levels, race ethnicity or likely inhabitants... are not valid criteria. In zones permitting detached s.f. homes, the structure to be placed on the subject property is not to be considered if it is stick built versus manufactured .... Next issue .... Legal implications of two current Iowa Code Sections, 414.28 and 28a .... This council has the opportunity to assess the merits of this rezoning application as like any other application .... It is the applicants burden to show that the change from RS-8 to RFBH is appropriate .... 414.28 and 28a do not compel the council to rezone the property simply because we are talking about manufactured housing. Any questions? Lehman/Thank you very much. Franklin/So now that you are not compelled to rezone and the choices... same choices that you have in any rezoning decision. What I outlined... two questions.. Whether there is a good reason to change this zoning and then if you do decide there is a good reason to change the zoning, is what is proposed consistent with the Comp Plan and in this case with the South District Plan. And we have made a staff recommendation to you going through those questions ourselves .... In terms of the change and whether there is a good reason, the principle that came to my mind... that would argue for making a change is the opportunity that this provides to look at manufactured housing in a different way then it has been traditionally built .... This project will open out manufactured housing from being built in the typical insular park like fashion .... Open the development out to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 3 connect with existing neighborhoods and future neighborhoods in Iowa City. It also provides any housing opportunity for people of varying income groups in the community ..... connections with the other neighborhoods... can make the development of manufactured housing seamless with the development of stick built housing in our community .... I see that as a benefit .... This is contrasting it to the RSo8 development that is currently enabled there by the RS zone .... Your choice... can be that you believe that that RS-8 zoning.. is sufficient and adequate... One of the first questions that you have to ask yourself. The second question then is if you believe that change is appropriate here, does the proposal that is out there before you comply with our Comp Plan .... South District Plan. And I have enumerated in the memo to you a number of bullets that state principles within the South District Plan that are pertinent and some of them are directly addressed by this project .... Detached s.f. housing will be the predominant land use in the South District .... Detached s.f. housing .... That that housing would be interior, within the neighborhood... Have the mix and diversity of housing at the intersections of collector and arterial streets .... In this particular project there is a proposal to have the multi-family at the intersection of a collector and arterial street at the south end of the development. There is some discussion in the plan about design of medium density housing to be similar in height .... The intent there is to have development which will be compatible with the structures that are in the detached s.f. portion of this project. Enhance the local neighborhood streets and encourage pedestrian activity by narrowing the pavement .... Encourage alternatives... alleys .... Rear yard garaged... In this project through the CZA we have the provisions that require alleys along most of the collector streets and the provision that sets back the garages on a block face .... Address issue of the streetscape and more pedestrian orientation. We have recommended approval of this. I know that the neighborhood does disagree on both the questions of diversity. These are difficult issues to define .... diversity in housing .... Lehman/Since this was voted on by P/Z, there have been... CZA? Can you tell us what the changes are now? .... Franklind When it was at P/Z the CZA had not been finalized. The two main issues that had not been agreed to by the developer... was the multi-family at the collector and arterial street at the south end of the development .... The other was the garage setback requirement .... With P/Z denial of the rezoning application, it is up to the applicant to then decide whether they want to take it on to the city council .... The applicant thought about it and decided they did want to take it on to the city council. In order to do that we had to have a CZA document that could be signed by the developer .... Before the close of the p.h ..... We did that and that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4 is what you have before you .... Biggest different .... The difference is in what the developer has agreed to in writing .... Kubby/Do you have an overhead of the area? Franklin/Yes. Kubby/ ....review... what is currently zoned RFBH and seeing a line of where there is current development platting done and how many acres has that zoning designation that area not developed yet to the south. Franklin/ Lehman/Karin, I don't think you are plugged in. Franklin/This is the area that is currently zoned RFBH. Norton/Total acreage? Kugler/84. Franklin/84 acres... for the existing RFBH. Norton/How much of that is platted? Franklin/We have a plan for this part of it (refers to overhead). Kubby/All of that 40 isn't yet built out? Lehman/No. Franklin/This shows you the streets that are paved. This part .... There is nothing in here now (refers to overhead) and all of these lots are not developed. There is room on this development for further development .... Norton/... acres on the east? Franklin/I would have to defer that question to the applicant .... Bovbjerg/Where are you saying to the east, Dee? Norton/(Refers to the overhead) Right there, on the right hand side .... I think that is important to know how much is in that 84 that is still to be developed and is zoned appropriately. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 5 Kubby/...of those 40 acres .... We know there are 84 total existing .... Do you know what percentage is currently built out? Jim Miller/Basically what we have... all of these streets are in. Right up to this intersection fight here (refers to overhead map) all of these sites currently have houses on them. That is about 64 homes that are in place. From this particular comer... south... those sites on both sides of that street are complete and they are ready to accept homes. What we are planning on doing is to come down to about this area (refers to overhead)... about another 60 home sites .... This area over here is in need of fairly extensive fill .... This is about 50 homes sites .... There is a five acre piece fight up here... That particular piece has the club house... sits on about 1½ acre of that five acres... storage facility .... That also is targeted up in this particular area .... We have some commercial uses that we can mix in with the neighborhood .... This area down here... 30-35 acres .... 25 acres usable... waterways .... Waterlands area ....We think this will accommodate maybe another 90 home sites all together there ....This also has our water retention... 2-3 acre park site around that pond .... We plan the east-west parkway will come fight through here .... We have about another 90 home sites left. Kubby/Within that 40 acres... 60 homes in place .... 60 that would be ....Easy to develop and 50 homes further on the plan .... Miller/This fight here is 38 ....68, 28 and then 50. Lehman/Total site appears to have a potential of about 300? Miller/We have platted 222 but ... increased home sites... end of with 210-215. Lehman/Does that include the area to the south? Miller/No... another 90 on top of that. Lehman/So about 300. Norton/50 east of that. Miller/No... that includes that. Chait/ ....Important distinction that I am not heating fight now... has to do with the nature of the infrastructure that goes in this portion of the site will be different in your vision if you are allowed to develop the area to the west .... And the question... Why do you need more land when you have this much available .... ? Has to do with a future plan being different ..... ? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 6 Miller/It goes to back to an absorption issue... It takes about two years to take raw land and put a house there ..... Right now the current plat calls for the east-west parkway to go fight through the middle of this development .... Nobody wanted that to happen .... We are going to move that parkway to the rim .... As part of this rezoning .... Get it next to the public lands. What the rezoning will allow us to do is incorporate the master plan .... And you can see this area is different .... We now have the ability to bring folks in and around... out that way... To incorporate public r.o.ws .... With the utility extensions .... There are things we can do to better promote the development .... Extending utilities along with streets and infrastructure .... We are into an awareness game .... Doing things that are new... We are trying to do something that is different... spending time.. energy... money trying to promote awareness ...... We don't want to run out of available sites .... If we don't act now we are going to run out of sites .... Lehman/ Norton/I am concerned about .... Looking at what the city would gain by going to RFBH .... Presumably .... Some kind of affordability and diversity are gained .... Why could they not had been incorporated in the acreage in front of us or even yet ....How did we suddenly get interested in diversity and affordability in a new area? Franklin/...about the affordability question. Because that word is so loaded, people don't know what it means. I think it is more appropriate with this development .... That what we are talking about here is a moderate to lower priced housing relative to a $300,000 house. That we are not talking about affordable in terms of low income housing .... Norton/I did not suggest that. Kubby/ ....That we should be talking to each other .... Norton/ Franklin/ Norton/...talking single wides .... Lehman/I think that a lot of this discussion is if there are four of us who feel we would like to ask P/Z to look at this again .... I guess- Are there four people on council who are prepared to say- And I think it is important that if you absolutely do not feel that you can support this under any circumstances, don't vote to send it back This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 7 to P/Z .....The discussion relative to cost and infrastructure and streets and whatever ....Already gone through by P/Z .... Champion/I personally feel that the South District is better served by leaving the zoning as it is fight now. So I am not willing to send it back. Lehman/ .... I guess I am not convinced that this couldn't be a workable sort of thing. I think it is also important to realize that when council decides to meet with P/Z, that was not to be construed by anybody as us disagreeing with P/Z ..... Saying that we were coming back does not mean that we support it .... Kubby/ Vanderhoef/What I would like to hear is do you hear any new information that you did not have when you went through your discussions earlier? Chait/Isn't the CZA now something new? Vanderhoef/How much of that is new that you haven't discussed? .... My guess is that had we passed this, it would had been .... Subject to the conditions as outlined by staff which would have been the conditions that you see now. Norton/I don't know how to interpret that. Vanderhoef/ ....would include the garage setback thing and the- Kubby/ Norton/ Kubby/It would have still been a 4-2 then. Chait/So there is more information now than what we were comfortable with at the time. Supple/...personally I feel it is the same information, just firm now. Chait/Wasn't there some ambiguity around the 12 plexes? .... Supple/That was loose and so was the garage thing. Bovbjerg/My take on our discussions and our decision was that in a sense we weren't even at the garage setback stage yet .... Problems we had even before getting into that CZA. Basic problems about whether the changes were necessary and our minutes reflect that .... I don't know to what extent the concept of and the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 necessity of rezoning is understood by council and understood by all of us. I was under the impression that our denial was based on more concrete necessity and validity. Ehrhardt/I agree with that. I think we were convinced of the necessity to do it now with the undeveloped areas .... I don't think the garages was the big thing. And also... our discussion dealt with that road and there was no discussion about dirt. I don't think it was brought up ever about fill .... The need to do it now was they had to figure out the infrastructure for that road coming through. Chait/The point I tried to make earlier was that if we allow more of the RFB zoning, then there infrastructure finish out in this approved part is going to be different. So they need to know now. And it wasn't ..... whether we need more of one zoning and sacrifice RS-8. It had to do with the CZA, our ability to regulate what happens and that with this type of thing approved, we have a 1 to more ability to review what happens then in an RS-8. Bovbjerg/What we leamed when we got into what is allowed in zoning is that everything that is proposed ..... is available in RS-8 fight now .... Manufactured housing can be built in an RS-8 right now in any section of town. The difference .... Was whether there could be... single wide houses which we were led to believe were not available ... Got into definition of covenants... in fact single wides would be available .... That can be established under current zoning in the current RFBH .... In my recollection it was the fact that all the goodness of the special rezoning could be accomplished with what was there now and that it would fit into existing neighborhoods as it had been looked at in 1994 ..... The difference with the road or not the road I think comes from whether the original RFBH was going to be a closed community or a drive through community and that ahs changed several times since 1994 .... gets into infrastructure and road placement .... Kubby/If we wanted to talk about the east-west arterial... was that part of the original CZA? .... Franklin/In terms of where it was going to be placed? Kubby/(Yes) .... If all of us found that that was good for the neighborhood... to have it be further south, what other mechanisms are there to do that? .... It doesn't make sense to me to rezone something with a CZA so that we can move a road .... Franklin/I am trying to remember exactly whether that was addressed in the CZA or we did it through the site plan review for Saddlebrook... or there was a subdivision. It would have been in one of those mechanisms. Kubby/If it was either of those, those could be amended for everyone's benefit. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 9 Franklin/Yes. Kubby/ Norton/ .... RS-8 seems to be a sensible zoning... good transition between the RFBD that is there and also nearby... to the existing neighborhood. The only virtue going RFBH would be that you could then get 35 foot wide lots and less than 20 foot wide houses and 4,000 .... Clearly it works out to be a manifest density .... Would be somewhat larger no doubt .... There is a good deal of RFBH in that region already. I can think of other ways to get affordability ....I just don't see the merits to the city going that direction .... Chait/Isn't the question whether P/Z has different information at this point ....to warrant sending it back? Lehman/I think that is the question but I hear folks saying it isn't that different. Supple/I think Benjamin may have a different opinion on that. Chait/I am just trying to define the question. Supple/Do you feel you have different information now? Chait/Staffs recommendation is different. I think there is more tightly defined .... My opinion before had to do with by the applicant requesting the change, they are subjecting themselves to more regulation...CZA than they would have with RS-8 and in exchange for that, they are going to get something .... But there is something we get in terms of the standards we are looking to meet .... Is there more to justify sending it back and it seems to me that there is .... Kubby/It would seem that way to me if I can get past the first question, is there a good reason to change the zoning and I guess at this point my answer is no and so I can't get onto the rest of it .... Norton/The CZA makes some improvements .... Lehman/I am sensing we don't feel that this is something that P/Z needs to go back and look at again. Champion/There is three of us. We haven't heard from anybody else. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 10 O'Donnell/I think you can send it back to Planning without necessarily agreeing with the project. I would like them... to have a look at staff recommendation and these changes .... Then bring us a recommendation. Lehman/I do think it is important... If you can't get past the first requirement- If we don't feel that we can approve rezoning, then let's not send it back .... O'Donnell/...I would be interested in hearing what you have to say .... Lehman/Everyone has seen the staff report and the report from legal .... Something here to look at. I don't sense that from the other three members .... Supple/It is not sufficiently different to me. I felt the most compelling reason to rezone this property was the reconfiguring of streets .... I would like them to do that whether it is rezoned or not. I like the connectivity. Champion/...I think we all like the concept .... Supple/It is quite possible... right now .... 1/5 or ¼ built out .... Got 8, 12, 15 years at the same development rate before they actually need more land .... Chait/Doesn't that go to how critical this change .... The way the infrastructure would be put in would be different if the expansion were proposed or not .... Supple/ Chait/...I would like to speak for some of the people who aren't here tonight .... On P/Z .... frustration and concern about the way that this particular project has evolved and things have changed after we made approvals and modifications have been made and you know, kind of eating away at what was originally approved is not very different .... Frustration... Supple/ Kubby/ .... I mean there was a lot of attention to this piece of property when it was annexed .... Property owners .... Bovbjerg/If council feels uneasy and feels that we should look at it again .... If you people feel that you need that again, then it might be wise to send it to us whether or not we feel we would be different .... Because things have changed... there might be that unease .... Our schedules .... CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-29 SIDE 1 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 11 Bovbjerg/One of those things if you are not sure do you want to make a binding decision .... Lehman/I am just reluctant to ask you folks... to spend more time on something that I sense is not going to be favorably received by council. Thornberry/This is the thing... after the legal interpretation that we heard from Sarah, I am unable or unwilling to articulate my reasons for not wanting to put it back to P/Z. I don't think we should necessarily go through this again ....At this time I am not in favor of this project. Lehman/I think that says it. There will be the continuation of the p.h. tomorrow night. I told a neighbor they would have the opportunity and they have taken the time to come down here... only fair... if we have someone who would like to speak to council. We will continue the p.h. tomorrow night... I am sure we will close the p.h. If council chooses to vote tomorrow night, they may .... Would like to take a couple of minutes? Karr/I was just going to clarify. When you say continue the p.h. but vote- You are going to close the p.h. to vote or are you going to continue the p.h. and not vote. Lehman/We will continue it tomorrow night, probably close it and probably vote .... Karr/You will open the continued p.h., close it and vote. Lehman/ Jerry Hansen/I am uneasy because this meeting and tomorrow night presents us both an opportunity to speak. Lehman/That is correct but you have taken the effort to come down here. I just wouldn't feel good if I didn't give you a chance. Hansen/I am still going to be there tomorrow night. I am no going away. I guess I will make my comments tonight. I have condense my comments. Lehman/I would encourage you to make them again tomorrow night .... public record... Norton/Do a brief version tonight and a long version tomorrow .... Hansen/I will go through them quickly... I can only hope that the depth of our feelings over this issue are understood. First let's deal with the Iowa Code coveting manufactured housing and land communities. The City Attorney has reviewed the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 12 Iowa Code and concluded that in this case it does not compel this governing body to change the zoning. The following are considered- Holecek/Mr. Mayor, I do have some concerns .... Now... it was for public participation. And to allow one person... biased view .... When other persons aren't so allowed... inappropriate. Kubby/We allowed the developer to speak. Holecek/In response to a question. Hansen/I can save this for tomorrow night. Holecek/ ....public record .... ??/Okay. Lehman/Okay, thank you. We will ...re-open the p.h. tomorrow night, probably close the heating and I think we will probably vote. (All talking). [Couneil Break/Conference Board Meeting] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 13 Review Zonin~ Items 99-29 S1 a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for March 23 on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 8.08 acres located at the west termini of Langenberg Avenue and Hemingway Lane from Medium Density Single- Family Residential (RS-8) to Planned Development Housing Overlay/Medium Density Single-Family Residential (PDH-8). (REZ98-0018) Franklin/The first item is setting a p .h .... changing the zoning designation of eight acres at Langenberg Avenue and Hemmingway Lane from RS-8 to OPDH-8 and the heating will be on March 23. b. Conditionally changing the zoning designation of approximately 61.8 acres located south of Whispering Meadows Drive from Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) to Factory Built Housing Residential (RFBH - 59.25 acres) and Low Density Multi-Family Residential (RM-12 - 2.55 acres). (REZ98-0011) Public Hearing (continued from January 26). Consider an Ordinance (First consideration). Franklin/The second item is the Saddlebrook issue which we have already gone over. Kubby/ Franklin/You probably read some of the minutes .... Norton/ c. Consider an ordinance changing the zoning designation of 21.26 acres located on the east side of Naples Avenue from Intensive Commercial (CI-1) to Sensitive Areas Overlay Zone-Intensive Commercial (OSA-CI-1). (Pass and adopt) Franklin/The third item is the pass and adopt on the Maxwell project on Naples Avenue .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 14 Review Agenda Items 99-29 S1 1. (Agenda #13- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION TO ADOPT AMENDED BY-LAWS FOR THE PUBLIC ART ADVISORY COMMITTEE ). Kubby/Item 4/13 about the by-laws for the Public Arts Committee .... Page 119 of the 2/23 packet .... Rules Committee meeting. I guess I wanted to hear from the Rules Committee what their rational was. The Public Arts Advisory Committee suggested that three of the five city council appointed appointees be art or design professionals and the Rules Committee is suggesting two out of five. Lehman/At least two. Kubby/Okay, thank you. Norton/We thought it gives them the flexibility .... Kubby/Did that go back to get feedback from the Public Arts Committee and did they okay it? Vanderhoef/Yeah. Lehman/...At least two. Kubby/Then my second question was on the next page that all this stuff about ...absences .... Norton/Is that part of the current motion? Karr/No... that is not a recommendation. The Rules Committee will be meeting with the City Attorney .... Kubby/I think that whole process seems way to complicated. Norton/There are some legal things about it .... Looked at trying to redefine the absence policy for all committees... trying to take out the notion of excused absences .... Trying to come up with a simplified absence statement... being considered at the moment ..... Lehman/Some committees meet once a month and some once a week .... Okay. 2. (Agenda #15- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND CITY CLERK TO ATTEST CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF SAND PIT PUMP STATION - LOWER TERMINUS PROJECT.) Arkins/... Sand pit pump station .... Only received one bid .... Chuck .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 15 Schmadeke/We are recommending approval of the contract with Reynolds Company for the... sand pit pump station. It is $200,000 over the estimate which is close to 35% and it is difficult to recommend going ahead with the award because of that. However, I think that we did whatever we could to acquire as many bids as possible .....this time of year. I don't think that re-bidding it is going to get us any lower bids ....We just got the one bid. We did get a no bid, another firm submitted a package as if it were a bid and then in the package they declined to bid ..... Lehman/...It pumps water from the sand pit to where? Schmadeke/Back to the plant and it will also pump from the river intake back to the plant. Norton/Doesn't sound extremely complicated. Kubby/ Schmadeke/It is a specialized contractor. There is only three in the country that do this line of work. However, we felt some bridge contractors might also bid it because it is similar to pier type construction and so we invited bridge contractors to bid it... They are busy at this time. Lehman/Is the water line up in the air? Schmadeke/No, it is below ground. It is about 23 feet below surface. Lehman/ Kubby/One of the wells that is real near this is done by the same contractor. So they will be 200 feet away so they will be able to jump right over to this project .... One of the things .... Why is this so big, where were we low in our estimate? And he said he thought that we were way low and he actually bid this thinking there would be 3-4 other bids coming in .... He said he thought he would still be low compared to other people .... He was expecting there to be other bids .... Norton/We may have to go with it .... I still don't understand... doesn't sound to me like it is as complex as a pencil. Lehman/It is probably a little more complex than a pencil. Champion/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 16 Lehman/Where does this fit into the timetable for the rest of our work? .... Schmadeke/This is the last of the ground water resources that we will be constructing facilities for. It is a 10 month contract. At the end of the year we want to let a contract for the water plant and we would like to have all the water sources finished at that time so we know what our raw water supply is at the time we let the contract for the plant. Lehman/This work has to be done before you can build the water plant. Schmadeke/It has to be done by the time we finish building the water plant. Kubby/I asked if we waited .... Lehman/ Schmadeke/If we wait six months or another year... still a lot of work out there. Federal regulations on water quality are getting tougher and tougher .... With still a limited number of contractors. So I don't think that process are going to go down. Norton/Does this involve two intakes? .... Schmadeke/Two separate intakes. They are both going into the sand pit. Norton/ Schmadeke/There is a series of pumps... two intakes, one above the other .... One shallow... one deep intake .... Lehman/...defer to your judgement. Champion/How long ago was the engineer's estimate done? Schmadeke/At the time of bidding they prepared a new estimate. Thornberry/I am not happy with this at all .... Get some more information. There has got to be more places around the country doing this kind of work with doing what we are doing here. There is only three companies in the country that do this sort of thing? Schmadeke/That do this specialized piping that he is talking about .... Slotted piping that goes out into the sandpit. There is only three companies that do that type of construction, extend that slotted piping out. There are bridge contractors that will build the structure .... They are too busy with bridge projects. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 17 Thornberry/Your people who put of this estimate .... They took everything into consideration .... How could they be $200,000 light? Kubby/Have we ever made an estimate on this kind of project? Schmadeke/No, this is the first time we put together an estimate on this type of facility. Thomberry/They had to be able to justify the numbers that they came up with. Schmadeke/ Atkins/We rely on our consulting engineering firm to do this work for us... We are assuming they have researched the market satisfactorily before they recommend that we go out and bid... I don't know the reason technically why .... Schmadeke/Generally we don't consider risk... market conditions .... Because we try to give an indication what we feel this project would cost to build given the concrete that is in it .... Lehman/Is this Howard Green? Schmadeke/Right. Thornberry/Is there another way of doing it other than this way? Schmadeke/ Thornberry/...Is this the only way to do it? (All talking). Atkins/Folks, if you feel very strongly ....Go back out to bid again. Kubby/...redesign what we are doing .... Thornberry/Doesn't have to be done until we do the water plant. Lehman/Who sitting here is going to redesign that pump? .... Thornberry/ Lehman/I don't think if he felt he could redesign the thing, he would be here asking us .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 18 Thornberry/I mean put out to the community that does this sort of thing .... Is that not possible? Schmadeke/We can review that. Thornberry/Is there any other way of doing what you are trying to do? .... Schmadeke/I don't know without visiting with our consultant. We did look at .... Pump station at the river ....And a pump station at the sand pit... It wasn't cost effective to build two systems. Norton/So this goes in both the river and into the sand pit. Schmadeke/Right. Thornberry/ Norton/I don't know what to do about it .... don't have all the leeway in the world here. Thomberry/I think we have all kinds of time. O'Donnell/...only got one reply. Thornberry/ Lehman/ Champion/We do have a lot of time... rebid .... Doesn't have to be done until the water plant is completed. Kubby/But we are being told that the atmosphere out there is not going to be any different .... I am not interested in the redesign option. Norton/Are these people doing some other work besides this intake? Schmadeke/They are in town doing the collector wells now. So they are onsite... When I talked to them this morning he said they dropped their bid by $48,000 because of the fact they are already in town. Lehman/Do we indicate to Green our concern about the difference between their estimate? Schrnadeke/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 19 Norton/Deep distress. Vanderhoef/ ....what is the advantage of having this completed? Schmadeke/So we know exactly how much water we are going to get from this pump station .... Until the structure is built... we won't know the exact flow that we are going to get from the sand pit... We would like to have all of our water sources identified before we start the water plant. Vanderhoef/ Lehman/How big of pipe? Schmadeke/I would have to check. I think it is either 12 or 16. Lehman/If you are burying a pipe 25 foot deep... you want that pipe done before you start building that building. Schmadeke/We wouldn't want to build the structure without having this pipe being part of that contract. Kubby/When we are ready to build the plant .... One strategy is for us to look at all of our water projects that are culminating... And see .... Financial projections... where are we in total .... Overall costs .... Projected financials .... Thornberry/ Lehman/What Karen is saying.. If we run into a lot of over-runs prior to the actual building of the plant... Kubby/Something we could look at where we can make adjustments and still get the plant we want .... Norton/You win some and lose some .... If you look at the total project. Lehman/We had indicated our displeasures to Green about being so far off?. Schmadeke/Right. Lehman/...I don't see that we have choice... We move forward with it. Champion/...save it and put it out for bid again .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 20 Vanderhoef/ Champion/He said it didn't have to be done until the water plant was done. Kubby/If we waited one year could those parameters still be met? Schmadeke/Yes, we could have this finished before the water plant was on line. Kubby/Disadvantage... one contractor is right there .... Going to add that $50,000 to his bid. Schmadeke/I am afraid if we wait a year, the bids might go up .... Lehman/I have to put a fair amount of confidence in what you are telling me .... I see no point .... Thornberry/ Lehman/We are only going to do one .... He is well aware of the industry. O'Donnell/Let's go with it. Lehman/All right. 3. (Agenda #16- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND CITY CLERK TO ATTEST CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE COLLEGE STREET PEDESTRIAN MALL WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT PROJECT.) Winstead/Real driving force for the College Street Ped Mall water main is to protect our downtown streetscape investment and we take bids next Monday on that job. We can wait to consider awarding this project until we see what we have on the downtown streetscape bids and it will not affect our time schedule for getting this water main in before we do the streetscape improvements. I have talked with some of the contractors .... Common theme was there is a lot of work out there this year... many of them have jobs carried over from last year... There are being a little more aggressive on jobs that have lower risk .... Working in downtown in a confined area is a little riskier for them than some of the new development options they have. We did get the one bid... If we get decent downtown prices, we would recommend getting this water main fixed. Lehman/You are recommending deferral until March 2. Winstead/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 21 Atkins/We are going to be bidding the downtown project then ..... I spent a good bid of this morning on the phone .... Purchasers of the Old Capital Mall. One of the requests .... Likelihood of postponing the Clinton Street component of the downtown project .... They would like to tie in facade improvements, Clinton Street, all of this together... They are very much in support of what we are proposing to do but just might make some sense to break that piece of it out .... With Rob proposing this, talking to the perspective purchasers, it seems like we can all wait until the next meeting to package it all together... Vanderhoef/Do we have any idea .... On what the installation cost is going to be for the water works art project? Winstead/I believe the line item associated with the fountain... in the neighborhood of $180,000 .... Franklin/I thought... $155- in terms of piping, pump house, and the surface below the art component .... $155,000 and then there is $70,000 in terms of the art component. Lehman/That will be in the bid... We are going to know that on March 2 anyway. 4. (Agenda #14- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE CALLS TO ARTISTS FOR TWO SCULPTURES IN THE DOWNTOWN PEDESTRIAN MALL. ) Vanderhoef/I was curious .... This art project is moving out there with quite a few dollars ....On the agenda tomorrow night a call for artists on two more art projects ....We had only committed in the budget $100,000 for art per year .... Just the installation part of this is well over .... Kubby/We had agreed the mechanics would be- Vanderhoef/There is this other part of it... laying of the limestone... I am trying to figure out... which budget .... Franklin/In the original downtown streetscape plan, there was $250,000 allocated for the replacement of the downtown fountain .... Out of the downtown streetscape budget would come the piping, the guts of a fountain that had no artistic component to it at all ....The Art Budget would pay for that incremental extra cost of the art component ....It is the laying of the marble, brass or bronze inlays .... Increment of difference between a plain... wall and the decorative .... That is the $70,000. Vanderhoef/And that includes the installation? Franklin/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 22 Vanderhoef/Okay .... Franklin/Then the calls that you on the agenda are for $22,000 .... For permanent sculptures on the two pads that exit .... We are well within the budget. Vanderhoef/The cost overruns that I am looking at for the whole downtown project and how much of this may be part of the art .... Franklin/The original $250,000 did not contemplate art involved in it at all .... Champion/ Atkins/I am a little sensitive about the term overrun. We don't know that until we get the bids .... Thornberry/You know we are going to be over in the downtown streetscape. Atkins/No, we don't .... We suspect we will .... Norton/More phasing .... Thornberry/...chances are. Kubby/I have another quick public art question. In the calls for art... semi-finalists works will be displayed for public review. And you don't mean the actual sculptures? Franklin/No, slides of. Kubby/That is not explicit there ..... Franklin/Maybe I should insert that word .... Thank you .... 5. (Agenda #9- AMENDMENT TO THE FY99 ANNUAL ACTION PLAN BUDGET WHICH IS A PART OF THE CONSOLIDATED PLAN AS MANDATED BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT.) Norton/ .... Was that anticipated? That is we knew there would be a match for that? .... Maurice Head/Initially that came in. They got half the money for to finance half the units last year. With their state application they had applied for $450,000... The state requires that the local entity, us, provide at least $1- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-29 SIDE 2 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 23 Norton/Didn't allocate it until you knew that they had gotten the state grant in other words? Head/The developer didn't realize at the time that he would have to have a $1 match locally for each $3.00 that comes from the state. Norton/Well, it is a good thing you did. Head/Right, so that worked out fine. Norton/Well, it ate up your contingency. Head/Right. Lehman/Wasn't that a reallocation of money that we originally had allocated for something else? Head/No, the money was in a contingency. So it wasn't really designated for anything... We had anticipated that could be a possibility. 6. (Agenda #5e(2)- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR MARCH 2 ON PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA CITY TRANSIT FACILITY METHANE ABATEMENT PROJECT, PHASE I, DIRECTING CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF SAID HEARING, AND DIRECTING THE CITY ENGINEER TO PLACE SAID PLANS ON FILE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.) Kubby/About the methane abatement project. Does this include any use of the methane to run anything? Atkins/We are working on that. Fowler/This is Phase I... putting the piping underneath. Phase II .... determine the actual flows and from that they will be able to determine whether or no the options... to dispense it into the air... to burn it off because of odor .... To capture it and use it at the facility .... To capture it and then sell it and transport it to someone .... Those would be the different options that we would explore .... They are making guestimates on the test pilots they have done .... Kubby/Thanks. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 24 Transit Route Studv 99-29 S2 Lehman/Transit. Fowler/Just to give you a real quick brief rundown of how we got to where we are. We started the route study with a committee... management and drivers... We made initial maps of potential mutes .... Held a p.h. last fall. We only had three members of the public appear at the p.h .... After that... data from individual trips throughout the day by route... came up with another set of plans... then posted for driver input... We made final revisions to them and that is how we got to where we are today. It has been a long process .... That is how we got to where we are today .... During this whole thing we followed a set of guidelines that were established by council... continue the blanket coverage... during peak hours. To concentrate off peak, night time and Saturday service in areas with high ridership... System must operate within the budget guidelines that had been established by council .... Each segment of our current service is affected by these proposals... There is more service during peak hours under this proposal than currently. There is a loss of service mid-day in some areas of town ... reduction in the fixed route service at night but an increase in overall city service by using deviated routes in the evenings .... Bring some maps up front now and kind of go route by route... look at what we have done .... It is difficult to put on paper all the twists and turns .... Champion/Joe, how many routes are there now .... Different times of operations?... Fowler/Seventh Avenue is the only one that does that. Champion/Is that confusing to people? .... Fowler/Use it to go to work... use other buses in the neighborhood for mid-day. Atkins/Does everyone know Chris O'Brien... supervisors... Ron .... Kubby/...Is there a way .... To put on paper... times, populations, geographic areas gain service and where service is lost so we can see all the tradeoffs. Fowler/...put the map up and look at it ....Then you can see ..... (All talking). Fowler/We can start and kind of highlight .... Might want to raise individual questions as we go ..... The Lakeside route we have changed so that it continues south on Gilbert Street to Southgate Avenue .... Gained by this change is that we get service back to Aldi and the Country Kitchen area and Hilltop Trailer Court .... We would go out on Hollywood and come back using Bums .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 25 Norton/Where do you get over to Hollywood? Fowler/It goes up Sandusky on Taylor .... Come in on Bums .... Kubby/Do we have anyway of projecting tides lost and tides gained but those changes? Fowler/No. Kubby/ Logden/Ridership numbers... Kubby/That is after the fact. Fowler/We are not going to know until after the fact. The Broadway route has kind of been condensed .... Goes down by Boyrum .... MCI... comes back through the Broadway area... goes up Hwy 6... Sycamore .... Highland all the way down to Gilbert. Norton/...down Gilbert and Hwy 6 you are picking up flies, you get nothing .... Fowler/Deadheading to get out there. Norton/...that is traded in for going up Gilbert and across Keokuk .... Is that much time difference in that? .... Fowler/I think we pick up time and we avoid a set of RR tracks on a route that is very busy. Norton/ Kubby/ Norton/ Fowler/This was a route that was very tight and the trains really created problems for- Norton/But you have Lakeside and Broadway both tooling down Gilbert Street where you are not picking up anybody .... Two railroads .... Champion/The people that live around Lakeside will have two buses. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 26 Norton/And that section between Kirkwood and the highway are going to be short quite a bit. Fowler/There will be less coverage in the residential area east of the Broadway area with this proposal .... Logsden/Present Broadway is the red (refers to maps). Fowler/There are some schedules .... Norton/Considerable emphasis on time .... Fowler/We are trying to get from the core of the downtown out to the outlying areas just as fast as we can .... Kubby/The folks who are along Keokuk... What is the furthest one would have to go to catch a bus? Fowler/It is about two blocks each way .... The Mall will still be coming to Kirkwood. Kubby/ Fowler/Within three blocks .... Kubby/It is less convenient .... Norton/ Kubby/ Fowler/We haven't addressed the timing of arrivals and departures .... Until you tell us you want us to proceed with this .... Kubby/Tradeoffs... for routes using convenience at peak time .... More convenience with scheduling... Fowler/If you want us to proceed with this, then we would look at what time the buses would arrive downtown .... What time they leave .... We would be looking at that if you want us to proceed with it. Norton/...inbound route overlap with the outbound? Fowler/We are doing less of that... It used to be straight out and straight back in. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 27 Norton/...unless of coming all the way down Highland to Gilbert, you can cut over on Keokuk and down Kirkwood. Fowler/We could. We just thought it would be faster .... Seventh Avenue route has been extended... At 4th and Muscatine it would go out Muscatine to First Avenue .... tum... new HyVee and Walgreens .... Come back in on Friendship Street to match up with this current route and then follow the current route in. Kubby/ Fowler/It would go out Muscatine at 4th. (Refers to map). Vanderhoef/...which street are you taking back over to 4th? Fowler/Friendship. So we re just expanding that route a little bit ....potential ridership in that area. Kubby/It is hard for me to assess .... What I want for every route... what it would be changed to and what the pros and cons are .... Fowler/What you are saying is you would like an overlay on this map that would have the old routes? Kubby/Not that .... Atkins/How about Joe take them through an explanation of each of the new routes .... Then .... Come back at another meeting... just have one route at a time on the map and overlay it .... Probably have to do that anyway. Joe... walked me through each of these routes... Then we can overlay that .... Get an explanation on what the routes are tonight .... Then pick it up. Fowler/This is just preliminary. If you like the idea, we can pursue it ..... Atkins/If there is any element that leaps out... we need to know that... Get them through the routes. Lehman/If we had a map that showed the present routes with an overlay with the new routes and then you say this is why we do this .... Atkins/The important thing we would want to get from you tonight... feel for what the new routes are ....Explain the deviated route ....New concept .... Walk through each of the routes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 28 Lehman/...for me... not going to mean a whole lot until I can see the overlay of the old route and the new routes and why the change. Fowler/ Lehman/Going route by ronte at this point isn't going to tell us a lot unless we can see. Fowler/...We can hit the major changes .... Then go route by route .... North Dodge route. That has some significant changes in it .... Out Hwy 1 to NCSD and turn around at NCS at each trip .... We serve the commercial district out there more .... Drop service off of Prairie du Chien down on Kimball. We also no longer across Church Street ....We do lose that area offof Prairie du Chien and back down Kimball Road. O'Donnell/What is the ridership? Fowler/I don't think we have an exact number... may a dozen people a day .... To and from .... Thornberry/We are going to lose the Prairie du Chien, Whiting Avenue, Court, Caroline Avenue, Whiting .... Fowler/Yes... Norton/ .... Suppose you were trying to increase the frequency you go out to NCS .... Pick up more customers .... Now going out five times a day .... Why couldn't you do that sometimes .... Double the frequency you go to NCS and cut in half the frequency you serve these other people and they wouldn't be lost .... Fowler/It is tight .... And one of the things we were looking for is to make the routes more doable... keep them on schedule. Norton/ Vanderhoef/ Thornberry/Will there be a bus stop there at the HyVee? Fowler/Yes .... Out at the street. Norton/That is one that needs to be re-thought. Thornberry/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Cotmcil Work Session Page 29 Fowler/What they usually do... make it up on the Broadway side... This change came about because of a request from the commercial businesses... to get employees out to their work site .... Thornberry/ Norton/ Kubby/I agree totally with going to NCS more frequently .... Get employees to use the bus... I don't like the trade-off.... Fowler/Kimball is really difficult to run a 40 bus down to ....Routes were designed when the buses were smaller. Champion/ Fowler/... We added a West High Tripper. It would run twice a day... in the morning... through the area west of Hwy 2 18, Hunters Run, SW Estates, Walden area... Fareway... take transfers from students coming from Plaenview area and then take them directly to the door of West High .... Afternoon it would pick the students up at West High... long loop through the west side... also cover the Abbey Lane, Plaenview area .... Then go downtown and become a west side bus. ...New West Side route for the residential area .... We did this because we had had many requests for service from that neighborhood. We did a survey of the neighbors... In favor of having a bus in this area. Kubby/For Westwind .... Is not going to get served .... Fowler/Those were concems raised by residents on Denbigh ..... We got feedback from residents and drivers and Denbigh was added back into the loop ..... Kubby/Are there any other sections of the Westwind route where there is substantial peak time ridership now that will lose service? Fowler/No, it stays basically the same... goes down Westgate instead of Emerald Street .... O'Brien/Mid-day service .... robably hear concerns about this. During mid-day, Manville Hts. Area, 7t~ Avenue and new proposed route west of Mormon Trek would not operate ..... Kubby/On 7th Ave. route... older... persons with disabilities .... Is there anyway we can track to see if they have shifted over to SEATS during non-peaks times? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 30 Fowler/We could probably ask SEATS for that information. Kubby/ Fowler/We still just don't have the ridership on that route. Kubby/I would like to create an altemative .... Might qualify for SEATS. Fowler/...objections to mid-day service would come from Manville Hts area .... You would hear objections from that area. Vanderhoef/ Fowler/ Logsden/ .... Just between 9:00 and 3:00. Starting with the 9:15 trip on Manville Hts. There are 5 passengers; 10:15 there was 4; the 11:15 there was 4 .... 12:15 there was 5 .... 1: 15 there is 6 .... It picks up .... People riding from that area to the downtown area ..... Kubby/ Logsden/We took samples from four different months .... September, October, November, December .... We took those samples... to try to get a different basis for the ridership. Thornberry/February 18 memo on the 4th page on areas currently served by Rochester, North Dodge and Manville Hts .... It says the route would have a fixed route... time points... riders would know where and when to expect a bus but would be allowed to deviate from this route ..... Pick up and drop off passengers... disabled... How would you know to deviate? Fowler/They would have to call ahead. We would set a time limit .... Call the Transit office... small bus... 7:00 PM .... Lehman/Evenings and Saturday. Thornberry/They would have to call you... Fowler/A period longer than an hour just so we weren't in direct competition with the cab company. We would want to set up a time that would be in excess of one hour prior to the ride. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 31 Kubby/If we had enough requests that we couldn't make those fixed times for folks within three blocks, is it first come first serve .... Fowler/I think we need to work those details out. We want to build enough time between the fixed points ....To get everybody taken care of.... It could end up being a fairly long ride .... Kubby/Is there a way for all these little areas that will not have any service during certain parts of the day .... To have one driver, one van to just go to a certain area? Thornberry/That would be a cab, wouldn't it. Kubby/... one route that would combine all of these little pockets .... Still provide .... Thornberry/ Kubby/It wouldn't be like a fixed route. Thornberry/I don't think I want to get into the SEATS thing or a cab company. Kubby/...tradeoff for making the rest of the system more efficient. Thornberry/Karen, I don't think you need an on-call bus driver. Norton/ Kubby/ Fowler/You are asking if we can take our deviated concept and use it all day long to serve these areas? Kubby/For specific little pockets that are lost through the efficiencies of the rest of the system. Fowler/Now without making some additional reductions somewhere else or adding to the budget. Vanderhoef/ Thornberry/It is called cab service ....or SEATS ....We are not going to have a compete blanket .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 32 Kubby/One of the things here is to try to increase ridership .... Reduces convenience but it lets more people to have an option to get on that route .... Projections from ridership survey to find out how many people might end up driving their cars .... Thomberry/Chances are some people will be driving their cars. Norton/ Vanderhoeff Kubby/ Thornberry/I don't think we need an on-call bus. Fowler/We could do that by reducing service in another area .... Maybe stopping running system wide an hour earlier .... Champion/If you don't do it on a regular basis... then... cab service and not public transit. Fowler/The other mid-day changes would be the North Dodge would continue to run out to NCS .... And service on Towncrest to Oakcrest would go from hourly service to 30 minute service .... Vanderhoef/...businesses out on North Dodge area... interest on their part in assisting their employees with ridership? Fowler/Ron... Logsden/ Vanderhoef/There are companies that do this .... promote bus. Logsden/MCI does that. They pay half of their employees monthly bus pass .... I haven't approached the subject with them .... Vanderhoef/I can see, as we increase the convenience for them, if they can encourage their employees to ride the bus .... Logsden/ Thornberry/Ron, did you get their schedules as to when people start and stop their work shifts? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 33 Logsden/ ....times we were going out there were set up around their schedule .... Now it seems they are using a lot more temps .... They have changed a lot .... TGIF, Press Citizen ....Seabury Smith ....Safety factor ....Calls... increasing ....Changing shifts... They say it depends on the time of the year and what testing they ate doing .... Depends on the different division that is hiring the temps .... Thornberry/ Fowler/Seabury Smith, I think there are some people walking back there .... Kubby/As Northgate Commercial Park expands .... Lehman/Do we have a policy of approaching people .... Offering that kind of service... receptive... encourage folks to ride .... Kubby/Mercy Hospital .... Give their employees three months of free passes to try it out on the company and then subsidize 50% after that. Norton/MCI .... Lehman/Anything they can do to encourage their employees to ride .... Kubby/... advantage to them as an employer. Lehman/It is to our advantage .... Fowler/Any changes... we would have to market heavily .... If you approve .... Marketing of the system would be a key .... It would then be up to us... make it well known... Champion/ O'Donnell/It is easier to add a service than take away a service ....Denbigh ....? Fowler/We put that back in. O'Donnell/What is the ridership up there? Fowler/Drivers were estimating approximately 20 people a day .... Prairie du Chien was about 12 .... Difference was that we had originally intended to cut the Westwinds route back to 30 minutes. And by going to the Denbigh area we weren't able to do that. So it has to stay as a 45 minute route ..... We could still go over on Caroline but we would have to make the route longer if we are going to continue out to NCS and ACT .... Then we have to put another bus in the mix... more budget .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 34 Vanderhoef/30 minute makes it so convenient .... Fowler/The more 45 minute routes we have, the less attractive they are. Kubby/...Rochester and Court and Towncrest .... Parallel .... Fowler/Court Hill and Rochester, we combined those two. Kubby/Will the people who are lost from that able to get to the Towncrest rotue midday? Thornberry/ Fowler/It is the middle of the Rochester route that would lose the most service .... People along Washington St. would be without ridership mid-day. Kubby/ Fowler/That was basically... combination... talking to drivers... destination points... Kubby/...drivers... great resource .... Fowler/The evening and Saturday service...in the southeast section of town, combined Lakeside, Broadway's and Mall routes .... It is taking those routes... one large one. On east side... Towncrest and Court Hill routes would be combined .... Southwest side we would continue to run the Oakcrest route and then a Westwinds Plaenview combination which we currently have .... Then we go back to the Rochester, North Dodge, Manville and they would be served by a deviated route on evenings and Saturdays .... We had a goal when we started and we ended up... to add some shopper routes. What we are seeing is the Oakcrest bus at night .... Wal-Mart... Cub... Residents on the west side are riding the bus down to Cub and Wal-Mart and then to get home they have to ride to eastside of town and ride all the way to Benton Street. We would like to add shopper routes- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-30 SIDE 1 Fowler/Along Hwy 6, Cub, Wal-Mart, HyVee, Econo-foods area and then back .... Until we get an okay from you .... We would run that probably on Saturday ..... Other idea... would be a University student shopper route... run by Mayflower and the dorms on Clinton Street .... Hwy 6 commercial strip .... One night a week .... Lehman/That route would run through downtown?. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 35 Fowler/We would run through the dormitory area... downtown... go out to the commercial .... Lehman/Aren't those areas currently served by Campus? .... Fowler/Some of them do .... What we want to do is pick them up and take them to a commercial area and then bring them back to their dorms. Kubby/You are saying they can get from the dorms to downtown .... Fowler/Anytime you have to transfer a bus, it is less convenient and one of the things ..... meetings with students... need for a downtown grocery store... bus take them to a grocery store .... Thornberry/...nearest grocery store to the Mayflower .... (All talking). Fowler/...If you don't like the idea- (All talking). Vanderhoef/...how would that figure in with your deviated route? Fowler/That would be a set route .... Dorms... commercial areas... then return back. Norton/Equity will be a question .... Fowler/Trying to spread the whole way down Hwy 6 .... Options .... Lehman/I really...like to see the present routes with the new routes imposed over those... idea of how many folks we aren't going to be serving .... We need to see on paper .... Fowler/I think we have a pretty good idea of how many people in the areas that we are not going to go to. Lehman/I think we need to know that. Kubby/Noah Dodge... middle of Rochester .... mid-day .....Manville Hts mid-day .... What else is completely gone? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 36 Fowler/That would be it. If we add the new westside route, it would not have midday service ..... Thornberry/Areas that aren't covered now that still wouldn't be covered .... Fowler/Some people have a longer ride .... There are people who will have a longer ride .... Lehman/We have to know that. Thomberry/ Lehman/...interested in pursuing what you have shown us but you need to show us a little more. Fowler/This is very difficult to do ....People who have ridden the bus for 20 years .... Especially difficult for drivers ....It hasn't been easy to get to this point ..... Thornberry/But you are also going to be meeting some new people .... Fowler/We could be back at the next meeting with more maps .... Lehman/I would like to see these overlays .... Atkins/Next meeting is in one week. Lehman/... Overlay of each route... then indicate what we think we are going to loose for riders on those routes .... Fowler/ ....We can have the overlays in a week... actual numbers will take longer. Vanderhoef/Let' s get a look at the overlays if that is doable for next week ..... (All talking). Kubby/...suggestions on how to get public feedback .... What are our options for having good feedback. Atkins/Our intent .... Meeting Room A .... We can arrange the notice .... To go over the routes .... Do we need to do a formal p.h. in front of the council. Fowler/We need to do formal p.h ..... Last meeting that we had, we had in this room and we had it from 4:00 PM to 7:00 PM ..... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 37 Atkins/Scheduled something... to allow folks to get themselves educated .... Vanderhoef/The ove~ays posted some place .... Atkins/We want to have your tentative go ahead .... That you like what you see .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 38 FY99 Landfill Grant Program Projects 99-30 S1 Lehman/Brad- Neumann/You have in your packet a summary of the staff recommendations for the Landfill Grant Program. The money is coming out of the landfill surcharge which is required by the state that we collect and we choose to use it in these kind of ways. Any questions? .... I just need your go ahead to go ahead and start negotiating contracts. Vanderhoef/Go ahead .... Neumann/Okay. Lehman/Thanks, Brad .... [See FY99 Landfill Grant Program Projects Discussion - Continued after Deer Management Update Discussion] This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Cotmcil Work Session Page 39 Deer Management Update 99-30 S1 Mitchell/I think Lisa has contacted all the people who are on the Deer Management Committee... they all indicated a very strong interest in being able to serve on it again this coming year ..... Mollenhauer/Is that what you would like? Would you like the same folks? I haven't heard from the City of Coralville, their staff appointment, and Charlie Duffy. I am not sure if he will continue from the Supervisors. Everyone else has expressed an interest to continue since they weren't able to implement the plan. Vanderhoef/If they are willing to serve .... Kubby/I would like the option of some of the people who have been coming to city council, Shannon- Mollenhauer/Chad and Clayton. Kubby/They might have some construction suggestions .... Mollenhauer/Sure and I talked to Clayton today. He was interested in becoming a member if you were going to put out a call for folks who wanted to become members if you were going to renew the committee. I did tell him I would call him and let him know when our meeting date would be .... In the next three weeks. That they can come and talk with us. O'Donnell/Does everybody on the committee want to re-up for it? Mollenhauer/They do .... If you want them to. Thornberry/Anybody that comes to your meetings... sits in the audience .... Do they have an opportunity to speak and voice their views to you? Moolenhauer/At the end of each meeting... time for public comment. Kubby/... Can other members be involved in subcommittees? .... Mollenhauer/We only had members as part of our subcommittee because they are voting members .... Thornberry/ .... about cities that have done this... Has not had any impact on the numbers at all. They were mentioning several cities that had deer reduction efforts and they have done away with many deer but still the numbers have not decreased. Did you find out the names of those cities? ..... Where they did reductions and~ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 40 Mitchell/I don't know that we have had any information from those cities but I think it is important to make sure you have a good long term maintenance plan .... Long term plan... Going to have to continue to take steps to keep the numbers down .... Thornberry/We have been told that cities have done deer reduction and next year... numbers... higher .... I would like to know the names of those cities .... Deer herd is reduced in the fall and in the spring they have more deer .... Mollenhauer/It can happen in some situations .... We are so healthy an environment here that they can't start having 4, 5, and 6 babies .... We are kind of maxing out... I can certainly try to find out those communities for you. I am not aware of it. We recognize that we are going to have to reduce every year .... O'Donnell/I think ...I read that in the paper, too. I didn't see any statistics to back it up .... Norton/I just want to say... Has the Department of Agriculture... same people that we were considering... Have they operated in other communities? Mollenhauer/Yes. Norton/And they were not enjoined by the same individuals and groups? Mollenhauer/I suppose they pick up their areas to concentrate on .... Norton/...somebody said you didn't have a detailed enough study. I am just so surpfised... Mollenhauer/The issue... how much public comment they put out for their environmental assessment. There is nothing written in stone as to how many days it has to be .... Subjective thing .... They are waiting to make that determination. O'Donnell/At what point are we fight now? Mitchell/With respect to the USDA, the heating has been scheduled for .... May 18 on the preliminary injunction. We won't know anything until after that day ..... If they can get a favorable ruling then, we could still use the USDA next year. Norton/Important to do so .... I also want to have the figures in hand rapidly for what it is going to cost if we have to go to some private entrepreneur here? Lehman/ Norton/I hate to lose the month .... One night... twenty .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 41 Mollenhauer/We spend several months with the USDA .... Safety issues ....We would rather be conservative about it this year. O'Donnell/...We will have the same thing to deal with .... I am interested in a private contractor. Norton/I just want to know the actual cost. Start now in investigating that. Kubby/To get to where we are with the USDA is going to take some time ..... USDA, we have a lot more accountability with them. O'Donnell/I don't .... There are professionals that do this .... Kubby/ O'Donnell/I don't want to lose this month. Norton/We surely need those numbers instantly, the cost. These people do it as a business .... Pigs .... Lehman/No, that is immoral. Thornberry/...How do you get a mole out .... I am just saying... when you got too many of them, you got to do something .... Lehman/I really think this deer committee did such a stellar job... I would love to put it back in their hands ....Do it in such a fashion ....Nice to have our ducks lined up .... Kubby/Two big things... arguments... time frame for public input and site specific information .... Might be some way to rectify that. Lehman/I didn't think either of those were legitimate ....They were excuses .... That deer committee went through that thoroughly. Kubby/The judge had determined... some legitimacy to them .... Dilkes/No, the judge had not ruled .... Kubby/What allows the judge to say we are going to go forward? Dilkes/Dennis, why don't you address what the standard is for the temporary injunction. It is very different. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 42 Mitchell/It is more- There is at least a likelihood or the possibility that they could be successful on the merits and that there would be substantial harm to the plaintiffs if this would go forward without the injunciton. Unfortunately .... Kubby/I don't understand how anybody could say that there was site specific information in that... Lehman/That is their problem. Kubby/ Dilkes/Perhaps- Kubby/There can be some cooperation and collaboration .... Norton/ Dilkes/Perhaps the ruling by the judge... will give us some indication of what they need to do. Kubby/ Lehman/I would certainly encourage the committee .... To have alternatives in mind .... We have another means to carry it out. Mitchell/I would speculate by next fall we will know whether or not we want to use the USDA or another agency ..... Lehman/We do need a backup. O'Donnell/ Mitchell/...I think by the time you do back ground checks... references .... Go through with them .... Safety... To know that whoever is going to do the shooting.. proficiency tests... I just can't see enough time being left .... O'Donnell/ Mollenhauer/When we were asking for our extension on time, I just want to let everybody know that A1 Ferris... person who makes recommendation to the Natural Resource Commission was very supportive of that extension .... Of sharp shooting in Iowa City... We don't see any changes .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Norton/Who is in contact with USDA from here? .... Mollenhauer/Both of us. Mitchell/Yes. Norton/Have they said anything to you about the data... by our deer committee? Have they made use of those? .... Mitchell/In doing their environmental assessment, they did make use of the work the deer management committee had done. Norton/ Mitchell/ Thornberry/...can't shoot deer in the city limits ....Say you got butted by a deer ....Sue the state instead of the city .... Mitchell/I am sure the city would get sued. (All talking). Mitchell/ O 'Donnell/ Lehman/ Kubby/I had another issue for the deer management committee .... I have heard some feedback from the Human Services Agency... from people who might have access to the amount of deer meat that is available... to have it in smaller batches. Mollenhauer/We did decide to change that to one pound packages. Lehman/Thank you deer people. (All talking). Page 43 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Cotmcil Work Session Page 44 FY99 Landfill Grant Program Projects Discussion - Continue 99-30 S1 Kubby/I did have a question for Brad about the Land fill Grant .... Lehman/Go ahead. Kubby/My question .... about Dan's Overhead Doors .... Is there any kind of state grant or county permits that Dan will need to be able to bum to meet any kind of air quality standards? Neumann/I would have to check. To make sure .... Kubby/He would be interested .... Neumann/He sent me information on the burner .... Kubby/I would suggest that if any permits are needed or okay by the Public Heath Department... that that be a condition upon receiving the money .... Thanks for back tracking .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 45 Appointments 99-30 S1 Historic Preservation Commission: Brown Street - Marc Mills Moffitt Cottage - Doris Malkmus Others - Lars Anderson & Susan Licht Broadband Telecommunication Commission - Terry Smith & Jim Pusack This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 46 Council Time 99-30 S1 1. Thornberry/Members of the Review Board spent almost a two hour meeting .... complaint history and when that would be used ..... Board would not know which number refers to which officer .... Allow information to be used when it becomes relevant. Here is a quote from John Watson, "If repeated allegations are made against an officer, maybe the case needs investigating a little deeper ..... To say we can't have this says we can't have information that might be relevant." That means that he wants the information on an officer before they do their investigations. He wants to identify that numbered officer and I don't think that that is needed in an investigation of a complaint... If they want to track .... Specific number, they can still do that with the number after the complaint has been investigated. To have that number of that officer prior to making the investigation, John says and I quote, "If repeated allegations are made against an officer, maybe the case needs to be investigated a little deeper." That means they are going to single that number, that officer, out for a deeper investigation ....I don't think that is fair to the officer. Kubby/The emphasis is on the word maybe .... Norton/I still say that is exactly the same as you might argue with the guys who are doing the investigation for the police. Certain people ....They may do a deeper investigation than others. Thornberry/They said that it would not make any difference. Norton/They pointed out the very delicate situation which it might. Vanderhoef/...they are talking about allegations, not sustained allegations. Lehman/I talked to Leah Cohen and I asked her to give us in writing the reasoning as to why that was so important to them and why it was so much more important and would serve a purpose rather than having that information after they completed their investigation of the complaint and we are all going to get that. Thomberry/ Lehman/When you have an opportunity to sit down and quietly write something up... far better able to articulate it .... There may not be good reasons for what they want but they are going to put it in writing... Memo .... They will give it to us... It is important that we know why ... so important they have that prior to their discussion. O'Donnell/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 47 Champion/You are reading a sentence in a newspaper article .... You don't know what was said before that or after that ....In the newspaper ....It is a sentence taken out of context .... Thornberry/This is not out of context .... O'Donnell/I feel the officer is entitled to the same right of confidentiality as anybody else. Norton/We have been over this already guys. What are we doing here? Thornberry/I am just bringing it up- Norton/Eleanor pointed out that nobody does investigations blind that she can think of.... Distinction... between allegation and history that might be relevant in some ways .... I think we ought to go with that. O 'Donnell/ Thornberry/ Champion/ Thornberry/... She didn't have any problem with it but she didn't say that the PCRB necessarily should have the officer's name .... Lehman/ Dilkes/I want to make sure you understand that. I identified the issue that I had with it and I told you that I had resolved that issue with the SOP that would say you can't use an allegation as evidence of misconduct. That does not mean that I am telling you that you are legally compelled to tell them that or to let them have the officer's identification. That is correct. (All talking). Dilkes/It is a political decision for you all to make. O'Donnell/ Thornberry/ Lehman/I asked, Eleanor do you have a problem with them having the numbers and I think you said no, you do not have a problem. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 48 Dilkes/I do not believe there is a legal- (All talking). Thomberry/I was under the impression that she endorsed it- CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-30 SIDE 2 Dilkes/Endorse it or not. Whether I personally endorse it is totally irrelevant. I gave you my legal opinion and it is for you all to make the political decision here. Lehman/We are going to get the information from the board .... 2. Kubby/We got the letter from the UI Environmental Coalition about multi-family recycling issues. Could we just refer that to Brad and ask him to be in contact with them? Lehman/Yeah, I think that is a good idea. Kubby/ 3. Kubby/The Business Fair... coordinate times Schedule Discussion: Saturday: 10:00-12:00 Norton 12:00 - 3:00 Lehman & Thornberry 2:00 - Vanderhoef Sunday: 10:00-12:00 Champion 12:00- 2:00 Kubby 2:10 - 4:00 O'Donnell & Thornberry Karr/I will make the call if... one by one tell me what you decided .... 4. Norton/Some of you may have gotten... Jim Larew about a viewing tomorrow moming 7:30 to 9:00 at Holiday Inn about IWorks... 5. Norton/I took that train ride with him (Jim Larew)... It was great... big crowd... Very nice... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299 February 22, 1999 Council Work Session Page 49 6. Norton/Wednesday morning I went with Dan Holdemess and John Yapp over to Rock Island for the RR meeting .... somebody wrote a letter about the depot. It is very complicated .... Guaranteed six car loads a day of freight .... Passenger thing will be three cars hooked onto six freight cars ....8 - 10 hours from Des Moines to Chicago .... 7. Norton/Remind you that we are thinking about absence policies .... 8. Norton/Steve, you letter about cooperation with the Soviets .... Sister City front .... This would seem... more tangible .... Atkins/This was Dale's idea .... 9. Lehman/Steve, I thought that your staff put together a good .... response to the article in the paper on the water. I thought that was well done. I found it interesting .... 10. Dilkes/The PCRB's minutes from February 9 meeting are in your packet and I wanted to clarify- They characterized my opinion in a couple of situations and I don't think- This is not the opinion that I have given. Number one, the statement about them wanting information about complaints on PD forms and there is a statement that I disagree with that stance. That wasn't the case. What I did was ask them and I think this was reflected in my memo to you. What I did was ask them to tell us why they wanted to use that information and once they did that, I was comfortable with that. The one I guess I am a little more concerned about is that it states that the City Attomey feels the ordinance should be changed to exclude the fight of the Board to release the name of the officer in a sustained complaint. That is not an opinion that I have given. The opinion that was stated in my memo was that I believe guidelines need to be put in place to determine when such identification would be appropriate. Kubby/I assume you will pass that feedback onto the PCRB. Dilkes/I will. Lehman/Very good. Thanks .... Adjoumed: 8:50 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of February 22, 1999 WS022299