HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-08-01 TranscriptionAugust 1, 2005 City Council Work Session Page 1 of 53
Council: Bailey, Champion, Elliott, Lehman, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn
UISG Rep: Schreiber
Staff: Atkins, Burnside, Davidson, Dilkes, Franklin, Karr, Logsden, O'Brien, Rocca
Tapes: 05-44 (Side 2)
Introduction and discussion with Police Chief designate
Lehman: Okay, Steve.
Atkins: Ready, Sir. First item on the agenda is to introduce you to Sam Hargadine, our
Police Chief Designate. I want to just take a minute or two to sort of just walk
you through where we are today. In March of this year, we secured the approval
of the Civil Service Commission for a plan of recruitment for the position of
Chief of Police. The Civil Service Chair, Lyra Dickerson, happens to be in the
audience this evening. Thank you for coming. Lyra was chosen as a member of
the interview team. All candidates completed the City Application form. We
were looking for uniformity in information. To the best of my knowledge, all
candidates signed the confidentiality statement. I prepared and submitted to you a
copy of our Police Chief candidate profile. The interview teams, of which there
were two, are made up of the City Manager, Personnel Administrator, Sheriff,
Civil Service Commission, and the Fire Chief...and the second team of the
Assistant City Manager, City Clerk, City Attorney, and Director of Parking and
Transit. You will note that four of the appointees...or four of the members of the
interview teams...excuse me folks (cough)...are Council appointees. The Fire
Chief was included in the review process as it goes with the importance of the
relationship to the candidate - er, to the interviewers, to have
police.., professional police experience in their background. All of the interview
members are senior-level employees. Following the interview process, we
convened as a group, selected our preferred candidate, and began the process of
background check, interviews, references, and that, as I'm sure you can
appreciate, is a timely, - er, a time-consuming undertaking. We've reached the
point where the Civil Service Commission and their role has certified Sam
Hargadine are our Police Chief Designate. With that, Sam, why don't you come
on up front. And members of the Council, please feel free to talk to Sam.
Hargadine: First, I would like to say thank you for the hospitality, thank you Mr. Atkins for
the vote of confidence. I've had a number of calls and flowers sent from the
Community, well-wishers, and I'd like to publicly thank the citizens of Iowa City
and the Council. Is there any questions?
Vanderhoef: Welcome.
Hargadine: Thank you.
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Vanderhoefi Ahh .... one of the things that...ahh...interested me the...ahhh...the resume of
being from another University city and I don't know how campus policing works
there as compared to what happens here...ahhh...I noticed how big your force
was and that made me wonder if you had a lot of responsibility down there on the
campus.
Hargadine: Well, we have quite a number of students who live off of campus property, to
include the entire Greek Town. We handle Greek Town in Columbia and all of
the City-owned streets that are within the University complex. I would assume
there are similar agreements here. The University of Missouri owns property all
over the state, all over Boone County, which is the county where I am from, and
so those police officers there have jurisdiction anywhere the University has
property. Actually, they have state-wide police powers. We get along with them
very well. We do numerous law-enforcement activities together including
sporting events, similar to what you all do with football games.
Vanderhoef: Do they carry weapons?
Hargadine: The University of Missouri Police Department does, yes. They are certified
police officers. In fact, we all go to the same academy and we hire from them
quite frequently.
Vanderhoefi So that would be one difference that we have here and how that might look and
what kind of calls onto University property that you might receive.
Hargadine: All I can speak is to what my experience is. There are times when - and certainly
if there is a major crime on University property - they generally ask for our
assistance. They are pretty good at pursuits and that kind of stuff...and they'll
ask for our assistance because they're generally going to come through the City at
some point. Most of the officers are familiar with the officers on the University
campus as well as the Sheriff's department. Generally, management...those
management promoter areas and officers know the officers pretty good - so there
is communications at all levels.
Vanderhoef: I'll let someone else ask a question and then I'll get back to you.
Bailey: Can I just...before I look at my list of questions...I just want to clarify something
in this process. I would like an opportunity for the public to meet with Mr.
Hargadine. So, I would like the Council consider the opportunity to defer this
resolution for a couple of weeks and set a public meeting so the public can ask
questions directly of him and I would, with all due respect, I'd like to take a
moment to see if there is any interest in that before I look at these questions to
proceed with them.
Elliott: I would be similarly interested.
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Lehman: Well, I think we can certainly discuss that. I think that that would probably come
up during Council time.
Bailey: The reason I put it here because in anticipation that that probably wouldn't go
forward, members of the public have asked me to ask questions that they' re
interested in hearing the answers of and I won't go through all those if he would
have the opportunity answer these directly to the public. I would just ask the
questions that I had set.
Lehman: Okay, just informally, is there interest in deferring this from tomorrow night.
Alright, there are two people who are interested in deferring this, is there anyone
else? I suggest that you ask your questions.
Bailey: I have quite a few because many members of the public are very interested in
hearing these. Is there a way we would like to proceed with these or...
Elliott: I would suggest something like fifteen minutes per Council-person and we go
around once and if there are more to be asked, then another fifteen minute
segment for each Council-person. Is that reasonable?
Lehman: That's fine.
Vanderhoefi I think one of the things...following up on this...and I had talked with you earlier,
Regenia, is that one of the questions I had for...ahh...Mr. Hargadine was 'How
do you envision integrating yourself into the community and being available for
community members to visit with you and talk about their specific concerns?'
Hargadine: One of the things that is something I believe in is an open-door policy that
includes officers and the public. That's certainly the way I operate now as the
Internal Affairs Commander for the Columbia Police Department. It's simple as
calling and asking for appointment, saying 'I have an issue and I'd like to come
down and speak with you', and it's that simple. Or, if they would prefer to write
or email...I will address every issue as it comes in.
Vanderhoef: But you didn't have any idea about going out to civic clubs and being available in
those locals where people could just casually visit with you.
Hargadine: I am currently a Rotarian and we just recently had the district governor come
speak at our club...and when I announced that I was a candidate for Iowa City, he
has since challenged me to find a Rotary club up here...so, that is something that I
have a strong desire to do, as well as with other clubs. I really like doing lunch,
so if they want to meet over lunch (laughter)...we'll have a good...
Vanderhoef: You'll probably get a lot of invitations after that. Thank you.
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Champion: One of the things that I wondered what about and we've tossed this around a
lot .... but could you give me your idea about community-policing and if anything
like that has been done in Columbia and what your experience with it is and if you
think it's valid.
Hargadine: We went through a strategic planning process...we started about five years
ago.., and one of the things we did...we did a community-policing city-wide
initiative just prior to that and we were looking for some method of gauging our
effectiveness, outside of 'we think we're doing okay' but how do you know that.
So, that was one of the plans that we went through. One of the things that came
out of that is that there is no...if you want to argue all night long about what is
community policing, there is probably fifty different definitions in this room
today.
Champion: It's yours I'm interested in. (Laughter)
Hargadine: It's a partnership with the community...that's the bottom line and that both the
police department and the community have equal responsibility to see that the
quality of life issues are addressed in which ever community.
Wilbum: Are you finished? If you want to go back to that later, that's fine. Iowa City has
a strong history of civil disobedience and certainly there is extensive City
ordinances that cover the use of public right of way but part of civil disobedience
is not following some of those rules. Can you comment or speculate...you know,
I don't know how the history of Columbia relates, but just kind of that balance of
recognizing that...where public safety needs to be kept but also understanding
that this is a town where people like to stand up for what they believe in...how
that might be reflected in the conduct and approach that you would have officers
follow.
Hargadine: I believe in that right as well...that anybody has the right to protest...and it kind
of depends on the issue as to whether or not you can seek out the leader or the two
leaders that are involved in those issues. Certainly, if you can, it's nice to get...to
make introductions ahead of time so that you have the relationships in place so
that they will call and say 'Hey, I just want to let you know that we're going to
marching on this street' and us saying 'Thank you for giving us the heads up.' If
you have those relationships in place ahead of time then I think it simplifies those
things down the road. Not every protest does law enforcement get that benefit,
but with that said, if there are laws being broken then usually the police than
peacefully enforce those laws, especially if it's passive resistance. Now, if it's
approaching a riot situation, then that's something else entirely and that's going to
escalate the police force. Hopefully, those relationships are in place ahead of time
so that it would never come to that and at most it's going to be peaceful protesting
and passive resistance.
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O'Donnell: We've had a lot of talk recently about a joint communications center. Do you
have experience in that area?
Hargadine: Yes. My office is about ten feet from one. So, I have a...and I've grown up in
that system don't much else. So, there are pros and cons to it. In Columbia, they
are there own City department. I don't think they could do that now because they
also receive County tax dollars. They would probably be a separate entity outside
of our building if it were started today. But, since the history of the department
it's been within our building, that's where it resides, however, they jointly share
county-wide law enforcement, fire, and EMS medical dispatching.
O'Donnell: Thank you.
Elliott: Regenia, are you going to?
Bailey: There's been quite a bit of talk in this community about knock-and-talk and
garbage searches. What would be your policy on those?
Hargadine: I'm quite familiar with knock-and-talk. Garbage searches, you'll have to clarify a
little bit.
Bailey: I assume it's going through garbage or recycling to gather evidence on a person
without a warrant, I assume.
Hargadine: I'm a firm believer in the fourth amendment to the constitution and...you've got
two separate issues there. The knock-and-talks...I'm a law enforcement
officer...I'm not a political scientist. If there is a law that needs to be enforced,
that's my job to enforce it. As far as how that's done...ifthere is a knock-and-
talk issue, I would look at those one a time. I wouldn't lump them into 'the entire
practice is bad'. The first thing I would want to know is the prosecutor filing the
cases. If the prosecutor filed the case then it stood up to the issues of the fourth
amendment.
Bailey: So, as a policy you would go case by case but you don't have a...you wouldn't
have a blanket policy that would discourage knock-and-talks in our community?
Hargadine: No, I would not.
Elliott: Go ahead...I would like to take fifteen minutes of my time...
Bailey: Alright. Recognize that these aren't all my questions...these were submitted by
various people. They may be all over the map as opposed to coming from one
person. In this time of increased security due to the Patriot Act, how do you see
your role for setting standards for professionalism and civil behavior in line
officers?
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Hargadine: Well, police officers should always be diligent in any time of unusual activity, as
are citizens now. What that has to do with the Patriot Act, I'm not quite sure.
Bailey: Let's just go with 'how do you see your role in setting standards for
professionalism and civil behavior in line officers or the people under your
jurisdiction or in your department?
Hargadine: At the initial level, it all starts with integrity and respect. It doesn't matter how
guilty someone is, I expect in my officers, that they treat people with respect and
dignity.
Bailey: What would be your first step in informing the local public about a local tragedy?
I think you had experience with this because you're a public communication
person.
Hargadine: I'm assuming that you're talking that if it were police-related in some type of
thing?
Bailey: Yes.
Hargadine: I have a long history of dealing with the press. Columbia is a very media-
intensive town. Per capita, we have as many reporters as New York City per
capita. It doesn't matter what the incident is, we generally inform them, whether
it's a death investigation, we like to notify the press early on. We don't put a lot
out because we generally don't know a lot at the time, but as details come in then
we communicate with them a number of ways, similar to the way Iowa City does
with emails.
Bailey: Okay. Where do victimless crimes fit into your law enforcement priorities?
Victimless crimes, public intox, possession a small amount of marijuana, and
those sorts of things?
Hargadine: Uhhm...there are times when enforcing those laws takes care of bigger problems.
If people are hanging around making a nuisance in the downtown business area,
or in any area where they are creating a nuisance, then police will be encouraged
to take whatever action they can find to move that person along.
Bailey: I assume, being in a University town, that you have a lot of experience with
public intoxication?
Hargadine: We don't have an open...we have an open-container law...but not a public
intoxication law.
Bailey: Okay. So, what about some of the other alcohol issues I have...well, I'll just have
to take them later, I guess. Many think that traffic violations should be low on the
priority list of enforcement while others believe that addressing traffic violations
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set a tone for behavioral expectations in our community - sort of a behavioral
broken-window theory approach - traffic complaints, specifically about speeding,
are some of the most frequent complaints brought by neighborhoods to Council.
What are your philosophies and what will be your policies on traffic enforcement
and other issues that effect neighborhoods in our community?
Hargadine: I don't look into it as deep as some of the people that have asked some of the
questions. It's simply a quality of life and a public safety issue and I am very pro-
traffic enforcement.
Bailey: Okay, so it wouldn't necessarily be lower on your list of...
Hargadine: I've never heard of it tied in with the broken-window's theory before. It is...you
kind of ask in a previous question, or somebody did, about the Patriot Act. We're
still losing millions of people on the highways each year and all of the federal
dollars that are going towards other things, highway safety dollars aren't coming
in like they used to for enforcement and those things.., so it's my understanding
that you haven't had a homicide in a couple of years but I would wager that you
have had some traffic fatalities...so it does effect people. It's not a minor issue.
Bailey: A couple of years ago the City enacted a nuisance ordinance to help address rental
properties with chronic code violations. This ordinance has provisions to reduce
the term of rental permits if occupants have two or more violations in a year of
such ordinances as disorderly house, noise complaints, or disorderly conduct. In
a university town, how will you approach neighborhood issues such as noise,
disorderly houses, possession of alcohol under the legal age at house parties, etc.?
Hargadine: One of the things that gets back to the community-policing question...when I
mentioned partnership with the community, that also includes a partnership with
other City departments, which includes code enforcement, so if that's a tool that
police can use, then I'm very much for it.
Bailey: Iowa City, like Columbia, has a civil-rights ordinance that protects people on the
basis of sexual orientation. What would you do to create a climate in which
lesbian or gay police officers could feel free to be open and honest about who
they are in which the lesbian and gay members of the citizenry could fee
comfortable that they will be protected as other citizens would be?
Hargadine: Uhhmm...know that I have a...we also have a fairly large population within the
Columbia Police Department that's gay and I have long since had an open door to
listen to their issues and some of their issues actually have merit.
Bailey: Okay, how will you enfome the laws about picketing at the local reproductive
health care clinic?
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Hargadine: Similar to the earlier question, I would identify who the leader is...if there are any
laws being broken I would ask them to comply and not break the law, if they did,
then we would take enforcement action. If it were peaceful, that sets a certain
tone. I've been involved in protests at Planned Parenthood where they were not
peaceful and it pretty much resulted and was in effect a burglary.
Bailey: So there is a Planned Parenthood in Columbia where this has happened?
Hargadine: Yes.
Bailey: Thanks. In a recent study in California, lack of law enforcement was blamed in
protecting victims of domestic violence, specifically actions included non-issuing
or enforcing restraining orders, neglecting fire-arm seizures from perpetrators,
and not monitoring mandated programs for perpetrators. What would be your
approach to addressing domestic violence? What policies and procedures do you
believe are most effective in addressing this issue? What is your experience in
working with community coalitions that work to address violence against women?
Hargadine: Last question first, we have...we call it the Dove Program. It is federally-funded
through the Stop Violence Against Women program. I believe that City of Iowa
City participates in that as well. We have been directly involved in applying for
the grant for that position, which funds three detectives, half-time for a sergeant.
The prosecutor also applies for it and totally funds a full-time prosecutor that
deals with nothing but domestic-violence cases and then our local women's
shelter also has a position funded and they apply directly as well. With the
exception of the prosecutor, they all share an office within the police department.
We also have a Missouri Adult Abuse law in Missouri, so it takes the discretion
out of the police officer's hands. I believe that's...I'm not quite sure what Iowa
does, but there is really no such thing as a bad arrest when it comes to a domestic
violence case. In Missouri, officers can not be sued pertaining to a domestic
violence arrest. They are civilly liable if they return back to the house a second
time, they're mandated by law to make an arrest, no matter how minor...even if it
was a verbal argument, they have to make an arrest on second visit. My intent
would be to examine what are the current policies...I know you're already
participating in a similar type of grant program, so my guess is, and I haven't had
time to research it, is that you' re already doing similar types of things.
Bailey: What have you seen to be most effective in addressing this?
Hargadine: I wish I could tell you that it's going away, but it's not. I think it's saving some
lives. I know, personally, ofacouple of cases where there have been fatalities
and we always go back and review that...is there something else we could have
done? It's an epidemic and I think until...I don't ever see it going away, it's just
something that you have to continue to educate and try to eradicate...but do I ever
see it going totally away? No.
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Bailey: Okay. You began to answer this about the U of I, but how would you develop a
positive relationship between the Iowa City Police Department and our University
of Iowa student population that tums over as they do every four years?
Hargadine: I've already received a welcome phone-call from the University Police Chief.
One of the things I look forward to is meeting him in person...one of my...my
present boss usually goes to lunch with the Sheriff and the University Chief once
a month. I think that's a pretty good method of communication. They also see
each other at police events and that type of thing, but I think it's important to have
that communication both informally and formally. As for the University as a
whole, I have participated in a number of classes, when I'm asked, especially the
school of journalism. I usually get asked a lot to speak from the law enfomement
side of dealing with the press. I can't think of a time in which I have turned that
down.
Bailey: What about working with the students? How do you propose to educate the
students about their rights and appropriate attitudes towards police?
Hargadine: We usually do that starting in a week or two prior to the school starts. We're
fairly effective with the Greek Town...but they tend to move their parties out to
somewhere else in the County where there isn't law enforcement, per say. I do
believe in continual education every year - but it's only good for a year out
because that population does turn over.
Bailey: How do propose to enforce laws regarding excessive consumption of alcohol and
the legality of serving alcohol to an intoxicated person as well as serving alcohol
to minors?
Hargadine: In Columbia, we have a parmership with the Missouri Division of Alcohol and
they have field agents. I've talked with Captain Matt Johnson and apparently
that's not the case here. When they do make those cases, they do them
themselves and then forward that to an administrative state bureau.., so, I've
researched that a little and I would intend on not changing that all. If we have the
manpower and staffing, we will continue to work those types of details.
Bailey: Go ahead, Bob.
Elliott: Sam, and I met you just before the meeting and you said it's fine to call you Sam,
you prefer that...okay...good, I appreciate that. You may have noticed that have
a little housekeeping here, and I would have preferred that we could have asked
these questions when our meeting would be televised. I think it would be helpful
for the community to have had the opportunity to see and hear that. That has
nothing to do with what I think of you as a candidate because everything I have
heard has been very impressive. My contacts in Columbia have provided me with
very good feedback and I have just been impressed. It's my understanding that in
Columbia, a community about a third-again larger than Iowa City, has a police
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force currently about twice as large as Iowa City. Something like one in 893 in
Iowa City versus one in every 632 in Columbia. I've often thought that
responding to domestic assault complaints and also late-night traffic stops are
among the most serious, as a private citizen, to be the most frightening ifI were to
do that. What are your thoughts...do you feel that...well, what would be your
policy on those kinds of situations?
Hargadine: You are correct in that they are very dangerous and as you are probably aware, we
lost an officer in January due to a traffic stop. It was due to no fault of her own,
but she was visually attacked with a fire arm and survived for a month but then
died one month later. As far as policies, I would not...I would never initiate a
policy that would put officers needlessly in danger. If I did so, unknowingly, then
I would expect them to come to me and say 'Chief, we can't do that and this is
why.' If I thought they were sincere and correct, I would reverse it. That is, as
far as traffic stops...I've already commented on how important I think traffic is
and there are ways that training minimalizes that and continually training.
Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect, and so you have to
continually train and it's my understanding that the Iowa City Police Department
does do that on a routine basis. Domestic...generally, on depending upon what
type of call it is, that dictates how many officers go. If it's a disturbance then
that's a minimum of two officers, sometimes more, just like with a domestic
assault. If it was a disturbance in progress, I would expect two to go. If there was
only one available and another one is taking a stolen bike report, I would expect
them to clear immediately and go back up as partner.
Elliott: Would the first wait until the second arrived before proceeding?
Hargadine: Yes, in a perfect world they would.
Elliott: In a perfect world. Going back to the knock-and-talk. One of the situations that
is in question, what do you consider would be the appropriate age of someone to
give permission to enter a residence...for a police officer to enter a residence?
Hargadine: If they have legal control of the residence. If they are renting then they do have
legal control.
Elliott: I mean at what age? Let's say...
Hargadine: I wouldn't consider a sixteen year old, who is there without his parents, to be old
enough to give consent to come in. But, I am not going to get tied down to a
specific age, either. I would consider an eighteen year old, that is renting a
student apartment, because they are in control.
Elliott: Good. When you're recruiting and hiring police officers, what do you look for
and what do you look out for? You can respond...you could talk for two hours on
this...but could you maybe give me thirty to sixty seconds on what do you look
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for and what do you look out for? The latter being...there are some danger
signals.
Hargadine: One of the main things that I like to see is some sort of local tie. I've recruited
officers from all over the country and two years later, none of them are there.
They generally use us a training ground and move on. So, one of the first things I
like to see, and it doesn't mean that I wouldn't hire somebody that is from one-
hundred miles away, but when they grew up in this town and have ties, spouses in
this town, that tells me that this is somebody that wants to stay and do a whole
career. So, that's one of the things that goes through my mind right off the bat.
That doesn't say that we don't recruit from out of state and have the need from
time to time, because we do, but I look at the entire package...how they handle
themselves...our officer process is not unlike the chief process that I went through
earlier. We do it with a board that is in dress blues. It's designed to intimidate
them to see how they communicate with people. People who communicate well
are generally going to be good police officers. We look for a...there isn't a
set...we will have criminal justice majors...we will have, you know, this certain
age...preferably, I like a department that comes from.., some of them have
journalism degrees, English degrees.., actually, English majors make excellent
police officers because they have to write a lot (Laughter). But...it stimulates the
workforce when you have different people with different backgrounds.
Elliott: Do you...you talk of writing a lot...there's a lot of documenting. Do your sworn
officers have computers in their cars? Do they do a lot of their documenting from
their vehicle or do they have come into the station to do that?
Hargadine: Both. They do have mobile data terminals in their cars. They can do statewide
criminal history checks, that integrates with the FBI...they can also enter data
screens from there but most of them choose not to. Most of them come back to
the department to do it. But, it's a certainly possible to do it. They do everything
but they dictate a long narrative. We have typists that work 24 hours a day and
that goes in to a computer tape bank and usually by the time they come back the
next day, that report is ready for them to proof and send off. What the officers
entered are vehicles, people, property and then the typists type the narrative and
that speeds things up quite a bit.
Elliott: You talked about...you have an open-door policy. How would you describe your
management style?
Hargadine: Fairly participative. I expect people under me to tell me what they're thinking,
and I'm going to ask quite a bit, especially coming in to a department where I am
the outsider. I'm going to depend a lot on staff. I expect courtesy with the public
and integrity. Those are things I am going to respect. Other than that, I'm not
real demanding. You're not going to see me get mad. I've got a lot of red-headed
Irish in me, so if you do, it's a quick flash and I get over it. I don't harbor
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grudges, if something.., if somebody wants to grieve something, it's not personal.
We'll just deal with it, talk about it, and get over it.
Elliott: By the way, my contact in Columbia indicated one of the impressive things was
during that very difficult time when one of your police officers was in the hospital
and would, in fact, be dying, that you were on TV almost every night giving
updates and she said that the job was done extremely well and a most impressive
time.
Hargadine: That was a difficult time for the department. We've never lost an officer in that
manner. What was really unbelievable was the support from the community.
That, I think, was more touching than anything. There were departments from
Iowa that came down, Texas, Kansas, and Illinois. It was just an unbelievable
service and I've never seen Columbia rise to that level of grief. I hope never to
have to deal with it here.
Elliott: A question I had from another person...how would you go about...let's look at
your first say three months in Iowa City, if in fact you have been selected and if in
fact you are approved and you take over late this year, what would you do during
your first three months to interact productively and effectively with Iowa City and
the entire community, the University, Coralville, North Liberty, Sheriff's
department, citizens, staff?.
Hargadine: Well, one of my first priorities is finding a place to live.
Elliott: Smart man.
Hargadine: With that, we're already preparing for the move. There is also some challenges
with finding some houses. As I've told some of the press, both local press here
and in Columbia, I've not set foot in the Iowa City Police Department yet. I did
not want to do that as a candidate. I've talked with Captain Johnson, I believe,
once on the phone. I've talked with my prospective secretary once on the phone.
That's the only contact that I've had with them. Outside ofintemet research and
just reading the online papers for the last couple of months, I've not met the
people yet, so that is important and I do anticipate getting to know the department
from the staff down to the officers. I plan on riding along with the line officers. I
want to get to know the City. I'm getting pretty good at walking in the downtown
area, but generally when I venture out, I get lost pretty quick. So, that's one of
the things that going around in a police car will, I think, help me get to know the
officers and the geography somewhat. As I have commented before, on civic
clubs, unless there is a conflict with another date, I don't anticipate turning them
down.
Elliott: I have one more question and then I'll turn it over to someone else, but I do want
to come back...what are some of the specific...can you give me an example of
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some experiences that you've had in the past...two or three...that you think have
prepared you well to lead a police department?
Hargadine: Well, the biggest one...I mean...I've had a long twenty-three year history in law
enforcement. Both military and a couple of different civilian departments. I've
studied every leader, manager, and every supervisor I've ever had - both good
and bad - and I've learned from them over years of what works well, what
doesn't work well...what I've liked in managers that were managing me and what
I didn't like. I've also learned that you can't mold your personality to
management. You either...it works for a short period of time but then you revert
back to normal self.
Elliott: Excuse me, did you learn more from the person - the leader - you didn't like or
from the leader you liked?
Hargadine: I certainly watched him a lot closer. I've had a number of good ones. I worked
for another department, not the Columbia one, who was a retired New York City
Sergeant, and I swear that guy could take over a country if you let him. He was
that good and my understanding is that he went on to be a chief some where.
Probably one of the best leaders I've ever actually worked under. I've worked for
a number of bad ones. I've worked for bad chiefs. Those things that I didn't like,
I remembered everything. I've also worked on...I'm a student of government.
I've got a Masters in Public Administration and especially local governments are
my interest. I've already been studying the differences between the way Iowa
City operates and the way Columbia operates and there are a lot of things that are
just interesting.
Elliott: Okay, I've got a couple more questions, one of them quite important, but I think
it's time for someone else to ask a question.
Champion: I want to ask a question. Have you had any experience in the recruitment of
women and minorities and does the fact that the policeman that was killed in
Columbia was a female, correct? -
Hargadine: Yes.
Champion: Has that influenced you at all whether females should be out there in the field?
Hargadine: Not at all, because that incident was on tape and I've actually seen it. What
happened to her could have happened to me or anybody. It had nothing to do
with the fact that she was female. That was a person that was intent on killing a
police officer that night. As far as experience...with different...we've had some
successes, some failures. Our present...we have a heck of a time recruiting
African-American males. There are times when we go year or two years before
any of them come to take the test. We go to all of the Missouri criminal justice
schools and Missouri recruiting and they're just not there and if they are, they're
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not interested in police work. That's part of the problem. Another part is that the
community colleges that have criminal justice programs in Missouri generally
cater to St. Louis and Chicago and when they graduate, they want to go back to
St. Louis or Chicago, they don't want to come to Columbia. So, those are some
of our failures. We keep trying. There is no...if it was that easy...if there was a
quick fix, we would do it, but it's not and it's challenging. I think it's also
challenging interstate-wide. It's not just police work. It's every business. They
have trouble finding qualified minorities.
Champion: How do you...do you have any idea...oh heck, I know what ! want to ask but my
words aren't coming out correct...but...
Hargadine: Back to the women, if I could do it real quick? For some reason, we don't have to
recruit. We have a lot of qualified women that want to get into police work and
we hire them.
Champion: Do you think there is a problem with racial profiling with the amount of white
police in the country?
Hargadine: What was the last...the number of white...?
Champion: The amount of white policeman in the whole country and our minority population
growing... African-American... I'm being very specific here.., do you think there
is racial profiling?
Hargadine: Nationwide, unfortunately, I think there are places that do do it. In Columbia, if
you are African-American you are four-times more likely to get stopped by a
policeman. One of the reasons for that though is that if they live in a certain area,
it's also a high crime-rate area and that's where (TAPE ENDS)
TAPE 05-46
Hargadine: ...that do traffic enforcement like they do city-wide, but because the way that the
statistics bear out.., if you didn't know that, you would think that there was racial
profiling going on. Should you monitor it and address it if it comes up,
absolutely.
Champion: Do you have a Police Citizens Review Board?
Hargadine: No, we do not.
Wilburn: You eluded to earlier...when you were talking about good bosses and bad
bosses...but I'd just like to know...when we all go to another work environment,
we carry something like...'I can do that better' or 'This will work better'...can
you give us a flavor of something that is a positive that you think will be a benefit
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for the force or the community that you plan on, whether it's policy or procedure,
trying to implement?
Hargadine: I've got a checklist of things that I don't really want to go public with...but they
were things as I was searching, that are 'Are you doing this?' and ifI suspect that
you're doing it in a form or maybe it calling it something else, but as I've gone
through and thought about things that I've been involved with...I've looked for
evidence ofit...as I've said...I've never walked into the department yet. Those
are things that I plan are finding out...I've already started thinking about them,
however, I don't particularly really wish to go public with it now. Does that
answer your question?
Wilburn: Partially. My assumption is that when you refer to this list...you did point out
that you haven't visited our department, so you're not aware of what needs to be
done.
Hargadine: Currently, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I think they do
something...I'll throw one out. Crime Stoppers. We run a Crime Stoppers
program. It's an independent board, not from the Police Department or anybody
from the City, it's usually made up of businessmen and they run an anonymous
tip line. That's something I've looked for to see if Iowa City participates in. If
they don't, then that's something that I want to discuss with command staff. I've
got others as well, but I thought I'd at least give you an example of the things that
I'm looking for.
Wilbum: Thank you. Another thing that I've...you've...I think I saw that you've got some
familiarity or are becoming familiar with the City Manager form of
government .... so you will be working closely with our current City Manager. At
some point there will be a new one...a don't know if you're retiring here in the
next year or two or not, Steve, what needs to be present...and you weren't the
Chief before, but what do you feel needs to be present in your relationship with
the City Manager in order for it to be a positive work environment for you and
your officers?
Hargadine: Well, I've enjoyed...I've had I don't know how many phones with your present
City Manager and I've been up a number of times. We've been out to lunch and
he's given me about a three-hour driving tour from the City Manager's
perspective. I think those are the things that I think help build relationships. I
also have quite a bit of experience with the present City Manager even though
there is a department head in between us. I've been acting Chief a number of
times...and it's not unusual for the City Manager to call my office or vice versa,
so that's just something that I'm used to. I just hope that when, should you have
to replace your present City Manager, that it's somebody with the caliber of this
one...he certainly has good judgment. (Laughter)
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Wilbum: In terms of training, again, I know you haven't had an opportunity to review
training practices here, but.., can you talk us through or walk us through any one
or two items that are of high importance for you in terms of training and technical
assistance for your officers?
Hargadine: One of the things that I like to do and I'm assuming that Iowa City does it, but I
don't know yet, is plan training two years out. Presently, we...you mentioned
racial profiling, but there's other diversity issues on top of racial profiling that
police have to be aware of, so at a minimum of once every two years department-
wide, command staff included, go through diversity training. We happened to
have one of the best experts in the country come in for that and he originated in
Columbia... so we've got a large positive history and working relationship...our
officers trust him and I think it's usually very valuable. They also talk about a lot
of other things in those eight-hour sessions besides diversity. Sometimes its work
related issues on somebody not covering their beat up to snuff. But, it gets those
issues out and they deal with it, so it's positive no matter what. That's one of the
things that I plan to do here. What are we doing two-years out. There are a lot of
mandates. In Missouri, you have to have at least one-hour of diversity training a
year. That's not much...not diversity but racial profiling. There are other
mandates as well. I'm sure Iowa has mandates as to what topics will be done. So,
as those are plugged into available time, I also want the training calendar to
reflect some of the other things that I discussed. Likewise, personal protection.
Those are things that officers need to train on yearly.
Vanderhoef: Could you speak a little bit about your experience in working with school
administrators and policing on school property and how you feel about it? I don't
know what the laws are down there.
Hargadine: Ahh...we've got a number of agreements with the Columbia Public Schools. We
only have one school system. I believe you have two or three. So, that's a little
different...but I don't see it as being that much different...it's just dealing with
different school administrators. We have at least ten officers in the schools now.
Initially, years ago, as much as fifteen years go, we applied for every DARE
Grant we could apply for, and that put officers in the schools full-time teaching
DARE. Later, the Cops In Schools federal grants came out and we put at least
four more officers in the schools with those funds. Generally, they would pay for
three years and then the City picked up the funding from then on...so the
City...the budget had to absorb it after three years...but it's a good way to gain in
strength and you have plenty of time to prepare the budget. We also have two
large high schools. Columbia has...one of them is the largest high school in
Missouri and that has an officer assigned to it full time, paid for by the school
district. I believe they pay 80% of the salary. We supply 20% and the car.
Likewise with the second school. Both of those resource offices are 80% funded
by the schools. So, they came to use with a need and an ability and desire to pay.
So, that's something that, if we were approached, that I would approach and
coordinate it through the budget process here.
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Vanderhoef: How about searches in school buildings?
Hargadine: That's generally done by school staff because school administration doesn't have
to play by the same rules as police. Let me back up a little bit. They also have
two of our retirees that serve as investigators for and are employees of the school
district. Those guys do background investigations for potential teachers and are
in charge of safety and security district-wide. If there is a drug issue or something
like that, most of the time those guys are called prior to the police getting there. If
it comes down to a search.., either a principal has already done it and we're
notified after the fact.
Vanderhoefi These people are totally hired by the school district?
Hargadine: Yes.
Vanderhoef: Thank you.
Champion: I think I have just one more question. I have eight children. They were not
angels like their mother. (Laughter)
Elliott: Oh, come on.
Champion: They're all doing very well by the way. But I do think...with youth, young kids
or anywhere from eight to seventeen or eighteen. I think when they have an
encounter with a policeman, when they've done something wrong, whether it's
minor or major, how that policeman handles can directly affect their life for a
long, long time. I think it also sets a standard in how in how this child is going to
judge police from then on. I'd like to say that the Iowa City Police have handled
my children well, of course, they never did anything terrible, but I think it's
important when a policeman is called to deal with a child's mischief, whatever it
is, how they're dealt with...do you have any particular philosophies about using
police?
Hargadine: Well, I'd like to throw out another thought on there as well...and how the parents
introduce...I couldn't tell you how many times I've had parents come up to me
and say 'If you don't do what I tell you to do, he's going to lock you up.' I've
had it probably fifty times in my career of parents...you know, they mean it kind
of joking, but when you're talking about a small kid, what kind of message does
that send? They've already got some type of preconceived notion from the
parents. That's where all stereotypes come from.
Champion: I can tell you that my children were more afraid of me than they were the
policeman.
Hargadine: As well it should be.
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O'Donnell: I think everybody is. (Laughter)
Hargadine: But you're right. I think the Cops In Schools is an excellent way that they interact
with police officers on a daily basis. They're in the classrooms, they help to
instruct. One of the things that we do is a youth field day and that's police and
fire. It's usually grade-school aged children and I usually get drafted to be a
cook...so ! don't actually get to go out and play...but they do hot dogs, potato
chips, etc. Most all the food gets donated by Wal-Mart. They climb up all over
the fire trucks, they get in and out, turn on all the sirens, etc. They spend about
three-quarters of the day and they have a lot of different competitions and events
and softball and that kind of stuff. It's just a positive way to interact with youth.
Those are the kinds of things that I'd like to bring to Iowa.
Wilbum: Do they have Project SafePlace in Columbia?
Hargadine: I don't believe so.
Wilbum: We have SafePlace here in town and just as an FYI - several of the local
businesses, even the busses here, are SafePlace organizations. Is there some type
of equivalent? We have a pretty strong human service network here in Iowa City
and Johnson County and Regenia's brought up some questions about the domestic
violence and rape and the Emma Goldman Clinic and we've got Planned
Parenthood. We've also got several youth-serving agencies that are working with
runaway homeless youth, youth that are...there are diversity issues and I'm not
just talking racial...there's economic, and full gamete. Can you walk us through
any experiences in Columbia related...I don't know their network and is that
something that you would need any or more rapid education here if there is no
experience there?
Hargadine: The ten cops that we have in school generally know who the troublemakers are.
No matter what the economic breakdown or racial breakdown. That was done
intentionally. We also haves some juvenile detectives and they interact with those
school officers on a daily basis. 'Where is John? Do you know where he is? I
think he did a burglary' and that kind of thing. We have a very good relationship
with the juvenile court system. It's not always been that way. They have
generally high turnover and it's hard to build relationships when you've got
that...but our current director has been there twenty years. As far as specifics, it's
hard to come up with...I don't have a success story...but I also don't have a
horror story, either...so I just tell you that it works.
Schreiber: I don't know that much about Columbia and the sense of it as a college town, but
how do the laws exist as far as admittance to bars for adults under the age of 21?
Hargadine: They will let you in a bar but they usually stamp your hand so that it's obvious to
the bar tender that you're under age.
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Schreiber: Okay, so it's just like Iowa City in that sense. What kind of priority do you put on
police man hours and resources used in patrolling those bars for people like that
who happen to get alcohol...and like you said, there's no public intox, so what
kind of priority are you going to put when you come here? Have you had an
opportunity ride downtown on a normal weekend night, along those lines?
Hargadine: In Columbia?
Schreiber: No, here.
Hargadine: I was going to say, twenty years worth. (Laughter) Not here, no. I've not
actually met an Iowa City Police Officer face-to-face yet. Back to priorities. I
think it's important to set a tone to the downtown liquor or bar establishment to
play by the rules. If sending in an undercover liquor control agent will do that,
then so be it.
Elliott: My contact in Columbia said that you have used.., not you, personally, that the
police administration, that involves you, have used some innovative practices in
dealing with one, high-crime areas, and also you have a larger minority
population in Columbia than do we here. For instance, I was told that in the high-
crime area, you, the police administration, played a key role in keeping an older
armory open as a hang-out place and that it did do some work. Are there any
other innovative things that come to mind that you have done?
Hargadine: Well, we have what is called the NERT team, the Neighborhood Response team.
It's made up of a number of different City departments, including the police. We
have one vote on it. They also...that armory that you're talking about received a
lot of federal funding, so they were probably going to have to it anyway...but
we'll take the credit for it. Years and years ago, we had a fourth squad which was
an overlap squad that had a large number of officers in the high crime-rate area.
We went through an administration change and it was decided that .... community-
policing is community-wide -not just in one particular area...so we disbanded
the fourth squad and we went community-wide with our community-policing
philosophy, not just in one particular high crime-rate area. Recently, we went
back to... even though we still have officers on every beat and they' re assigned to
a geographic area and they're responsible to problem-solve in those geographic
areas, we reinstilled the old fourth-squad, because the citizens down there just
liked it.
Elliott: Reinstilled, pardon me?
Hargadine: We reinstated the old fourth squad. We put together a squad and it's headed up
by a sergeant and they're back down in that high crime-rate area. We do have
some pseudo gang activity and it's their job to harass and relocate. Columbia is
directly in between Kansas City and St. Louis, so we have warring factions come
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in over our fair city some times and that fourth squad has dealt with that. We also
have a community action team, similar to your SCAT, your street crimes unit.
Vanderhoef: As you may or may not know, our police department recently went through
accreditation and I don't know whether they have the same kind of accreditation
designation for your city, but have you ever been involved in that process?
Hargadine: Yes and no. When I when to Northwestern University to the Police, Staff, and
Command School, it's a ten-week command course, CALEA, which is the
accrediting body in headquartered in Skogie, IL, which is the next town over, so
we got to know those people quite a bit. One of the things that I left with is the
CALEA manual. We tried to go through it back in the mid 70's and so all of the
policies that were written at the time were written to CALEA standards. As
we've gone through a couple of different decades since then, as we rewrite those
policies, we still write them to CALEA standards because I've got the manual and
generally CALEA doesn't tell you how to do something, it just says that you shall
cover this topic, this topic, and this topic. So, as I write a policy, I make sure that
it addresses the topics that CALEA wants. Mainly for two reasons. Number one,
we could have always gotten a chief that demanded it and at least now we don't
have to start over, so the policies are up to CALEA standards. And, should we
ever have to...there are probably a half-a-dozen policies that are high-risk in
nature. Pursuit policies, use-of-policies, use-of-deadly-fome policies. These are
things that are high liability areas for cities. Should we ever have to defend that
in court, I can say that, 'Yes, I know that those policies...'. Even though we're
not CALEA accredited, they are written to CALEA standards, so I do have some
background in writing to the CALEA standard and I have also looked at the
policies that Iowa City has on the internet.
Vanderhoef: So...you're saying that it can be done and have a very effective police force and
policies without going through the formal accreditation process?
Hargadine: I can give you some horror stories from departments that are CALEA accredited
but didn't abide by the policies. So, just being CALEA accredited doesn't mean
that you're going to stay out of trouble.
Vanderhoef: Well, it's an expensive process and certainly time consuming for...
Hargadine: It's reason to be proud and it's something that I intend to carry on. It's a lot easier
coming into a department that's already accredited than starting from scratch, so I
think Iowa City has a lot to proud of there and I intend to maintain that
accreditation. But, as I said, I can think of one Missouri town in the Kansas City
area that really pulled a bad one in the last couple of years and they're CALEA
accredited.
O'Donnell: I really appreciate the way that you've answered all these questions. Some of
them difficult.
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Hargadine: Well, if you decide to hire me, it's something that you ask me, or call me, or
email me any time. This is how I work.
O'Donnell: Well, I particularly like the open door policy and the accessibility to the
community members. There is one more important question. I understand you're
a fan of Missouri's football team. I'm not sure what they call'it. But I wonder if
your loyalties are going to be to the black and gold of Iowa?
Hargadine: Coincidentally, that was the one bowl game I watched last year. (Laughter) So,
that was before the job announcement came out, so I am already humbly
impressed. I'm not sure if Missouri press is here, but they're strong. We did beat
Nebraska a couple of years ago...so it's been twenty six years since we beat them
so we are still proud of that.
Elliott: Sam, there's one question. It's going to be embarrassing for me to ask and for
you to answer. If you were being considered to head Proctor and Gamble it
would be none of our business. If you're being hired to do anything else it would
be none of our business. But, I think, because of the position, that it is...and that
is the situation with your then-wife having been charged with and I believe found
guilty of embezzling. I think the question needs to be asked...how could
something like that be overlooked in your immediately family? I will not
apologize for asking these questions but I don't enjoy asking them. I just think it
needs to be.
Hargadine: That's alright, I don't expect you to. That's fine. It's not something that I've
publicly commented on. Most of my personal friends and family know how I
feel. But, I would also expect you...it's not that I haven't anticipated it...looking
back.., hindsight is always twenty-twenty...but looking back now...were there
clues that I could have seen? Yes. Prior to the incident, though, I had no clue,
whatsoever. I have always been career-oriented and, at the time, I was guilty of
taking my family for granted. It was my assumption, and I know it to be a fact,
that my ex-wife wanted me to exceed in my career. I've been in grad school for
about ten years. It took me a long time to get through it. She had certain mental
problems that I won't go in to, she dealt with it by going to read a book and I
always had a paper to write, so I just took it for granted. A lot of those that I
probably should have seen...you don't look at that...you don't expect it from a
spouse or someone that is close. As I said, looking back now, there were things
that I probably should have questioned her on...but how would you know that?
That was a personal kick in the groin. There is no other way to explain it. I'm
thankful that it wasn't my department that had to investigate it. The
decisions...you know...when you go through something like that, there are
decisions you have to make. I had to make some to financially be able to survive
because I immediately went back to one income. The decisions that I didn't have
to make, I knew not to make. There was no reason to make them ifI didn't have
to. I got her professional help, I got my son professional help, and I saw
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professional help myself to deal with the stress. I knew...I've got friends of mine
who just become ill when they're dealing with an issue like that and I knew better
than to try to tackle that myself, so my main thing was to stay healthy through it.
As it tums out my marriage did not survive over it. I don't know what else to say.
Elliott: Thank you. I appreciate that. It was not easy, but I think it needed to be asked.
May I take thirty more seconds and tell you I had one exchange with the
Columbia Police, person-to-person. In 1958, I was driving home from Fort
Leonardwood. We got off at noon on Saturday and I had to be home by Sunday
evening and I was newly married and I was anxious to get home and I was
stopped on the highway as a policeman directed me to go this way. It was a
Saturday afternoon, I remember, in the fall, and I went that way and then I got
someplace else that directed me elsewhere. I ended up in a parking lot and I
remember saying 'How the hell do I get out of here?', and he said 'What are you
doing here?', and I say 'I'm on my way to Iowa, what's going on here?', and he
says 'It's called a football game.' So, you were stopping everyone along the
highway and directing them to the football game. That's the only exchange I ever
had with the Columbia Police.
Schreiber: What was your position with the Columbia police department in 1958?
(Laughter)
Hargadine: One follow-up question to your earlier question and I'll just tell you...one of the
things that I sought solace in what staying on the job. I didn't take a lot of time
off. I needed to get back to work to keep my mind focused on something. My
work is my solace. I disclosed this to Mr. Atkins. At the time, I had a petty cash
account and it was a $5,000 petty cash account and just to...it was something that
my boss would never have asked me or the manager...I don't know if he knew I
had, first of all...I asked the city manager's auditor to come over and audit it
because I didn't want there to ever be a question that would interfere with either
of my two bosses, the present police chief and the city manager. Those were
things that I did to protect the people that I needed to protect. I kept my boss in
the loop. I let him know what I knew and when I knew it. I felt that I owed it to
him. There were about two or three people that I felt that I owed that to. They
knew that I didn't have any knowledge of it and it was never an issue.
Wilburn: We appreciate your candor.
Lehman: Any other questions or comments? Thank you, Sam, for being here. I did not
prepare a list of questions. My suspicion is, from those folks who I know you
interviewed with prior to this evening, you probably got tougher questions than I
could ever have come up with. I have the greatest confidence in those folks to
pick good people. I have to tell you, as Dee eluded to the fact that we're
accredited, we are very, very, proud of our police department and I believe that
you'll find that you'll be stepping in with someone of the finest police officers
that you have ever met and I certainly want to welcome you to this community.
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Hargadine: Thank you and I'm looking forward to it.
Lehman: We're going to take ten minutes folks.
Planning and Zoning Items
Lehman: Okay, Planning and Zoning. Karin Franklin.
ITEM A. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION OF INTENT TO CONVEY ALLEY RIGHT-
OF- WAY LOCATED IN THE PENINSULA NEIGItBORItOOD FIRST
ADDITION AND SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING ON SAID
CONVEYANCE FOR AUGUST 16, 2005.
Franklin: Okay. Item A is a resolution of intent to convey alley right-of-way in the
Peninsula Neighborhood First Addition and it is related to Item B.
ITEM B. VACATING THE PUBLIC ALLEYS WITHIN THE PENINSULA
NEIGHBORHOOD FIRST ADDITION, IOWA CITY (VAC05-00005)
Franklin: Item B is your public hearing and resolution on the vacation of those alleys in the
Peninsula First Addition. The reason that we're doing this is to have consistency
throughout the Peninsula. Remember, we did the second addition and now this is
for the first addition...so then all of the alleys in the Peninsula will be private and
not public.
Bailey: That is a result of a MidAmerican policy. I asked you at the last work session
what you thought the implications of that policy would be throughout other
developments in the city and you said you had an answer.
Franklin: Yes, there should be no problem with that in that most subdivision that we have
there is a fifteen-foot utility easement that runs along the front the properties and
that fifteen-foot utility easement is what MidAmerican and cable uses to install
the utilities. Although this may come up in other instances, we will deal with it
on a case-by-case instance, but the norm is that that utility easement is in the front
yard, so that's not any change from the way things are right now.
Bailey: So in developments that there are alleys and the utilities are in the alleys, we'll
just need to accommodate this policy now?
Franklin: Right.
Bailey: Okay, thanks.
ITEM C. CONDITIONALLY REZONING APPROXIMATELY 92 ACRES FROM
INTERIM DEVELOPMENT RESIDENTIAL (ID-RS) ZONE TO LOW
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DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY - SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY (OSA-5)
ZONE FOR PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF KENNEDY PARKWAY
AND EAST OF CAMP CARDINAL ROAD (REZ03-00019)
Franklin: Okay. Item C is the conditional rezoning. It's a public hearing and first
consideration on the conditional rezoning of 92 acres from IDRS to OSA-5. This
is the Cardinal Ridge Development and you can see on the screen, the location of
this is just west of Walnut Ridge and is on Kennedy Parkway Extended. What
this shows you is the relationship of the development to Walnut Ridge to the
proposed Camp Cardinal Boulevard. Let me just remind you of the distinction.
Camp Cardinal Road is the existing road. Camp Cardinal Boulevard...this name
has changed...the name has changed...I do have a mouse...such that this will be
Camp Cardinal Boulevard from Highway 6 in Coralville all the way through
down to Melrose Avenue. This line...it should be extended out to here because
we have just annexed that property, is the new corporate limit line, which brings
you to the west boundary of Cardinal Ridge, bumps around the Nagle property,
comes back to Camp Cardinal Road and then is north of the Cardinal Ridge
development. This two properties north of Cardinal Ridge are owned by others
and are potentially development properties for the future. There were two
issues...well, two main issues with this project. I'm going to go into the wetlands
averaging, unless somebody wants to talk about it, the biggest issue for discussion
at the Planning and Zoning Commission...the two issues were sewer and then
traffic in Walnut Ridge. The first issue I want to address is the sewer. With
subdivisions, there is a requirement in our subdivision regulations that sanitary
sewer shall extend to the subdivision boundaries and beyond as necessary to
provide for the extension of the sanitary sewers to adjacent property. The
concerns here were to how to sewer the property to the south and then the
property to the north. Extensive discussions went on in the Planning and Zoning
Commission and the way it was resolved was to take the chance with the north,
that a sewer would not have to be extended as this time, because this out lot here
is designated for future development, and there is a lift station that is placed at this
location which is going to be serving the sewer for the area. So long as these two
properties here do not develop before this portion of the property develops, we'll
be fine. If these two develop first, then there is some way that we're going to
have to get sewer from Cardinal Ridge. These properties are not owned by
developers, so the likelihood that that's going to happen...whoops, sorry...before
this out lot develops is somewhat less than otherwise.
Bailey: What are our options in the unlikely development that they develop?
Franklin: Well, uhmm...the property to the north, then, would need to negotiate with
Southgate Development Company, or the owner of that property, to obtain an
easement to get to the lift station to provide sanitary sewer for these properties.
Assuming that most of this...well, I'm sure that most of this will flow this way
because that was the governing principal for the corporate limit line.
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Bailey: So that developer would need to get the easement and put the sewer line in?
Franklin: Correct. To the south, we had a similar sort of circumstance, in that in the
Cardinal Ridge Development there is this large area which is stream corridor and
wetland buffering that will not be built on by Southgate Development Company.
But, there is a provision in the code, as I pointed out, that requires that
subdivisions extend that sewer to the botmdaries so that you can sewer areas in
the future. This can be waived by the Council under certain circumstances. That
has to do with extraordinary hardship because of unusual topography, excessive
costs, or other such non self-conflicted conditions or would conflict with the
objectives of the regulations, which of course would not be the case here. It
would result in poor subdivision design, substantial degradation of natural
features, and if there is a variance to this provision of providing sewer, it should
be found that the public interest in protected. The compromise that we have come
up with and just to, if I can articulate Southgate's concerns here, all of this
development is on a sewer system that does not require an extension of the sewer
to the south. Any sewer extended to the south would have no benefit to Southgate
Development Company. However, as the community grows, we have to provide
those sewer extensions or we have problems in the future. This lift station up here
is necessary because there was not an easement through Walnut Ridge that would
enable the sewer to go the natural route for gravity flow. As a consequence, we
have a lift station that will have continuing operation and maintenance cost. So,
that's a reason why you need to look at these sewer issues when you're doing the
platting. The compromise that we have reached is that there would be a blanket
easement over this out lot here and that Southgate would escrow the cost of the
sewer to be extended to the south, which is $26,000 and that includes the cost of
the pipe as well as the installation. That that would be in place for fifteen years.
If nothing develops to the south or it develops and does not need that sewer, that
escrow would be returned to Southgate Development Company. We believe this
is a reasonable compromise, given what the code provides and the position of the
developer and the necessity to ensure that we have sewer access for future
development as the City grows.
Champion: We would maintain the easement in case it ever did develop after the fifteen
years?
Franklin: Yes, the blanket easement would be retain.
Champion: If you can, go back to the first sewer issue.
Franklin: Okay, to the north?
Champion: Yes. What worries me there, if they don't carry this sewer line, and maybe I just
don't understand this, if that area does develop that's now owned by private
individuals, if a developer buys it, they're going to be dependent on Southgate to
get a sewer line? Is that what you're saying?
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Franklin: They will be dependent upon or Southgate, or successors and interests, providing
at least a sanitary sewer easement through their property to access the public
sewer.
Champion: What if Southgate refuses to do that?
Franklin: Then the City...the developer of that northerly property could come to the City
and ask us to condemn that easement.
Lehman: And we could do that?
Franklin: And we can do that.
Lehman: Okay. Good question.
Vanderhoef: Okay, tell me on the south...
Franklin: If you or your successors were so inclined.
Vanderhoefi On the south sewer line...ahhh....the properties south of the Southgate
Development Company...ahhh...what other options are there
coming...ahhh...with sewer connections?
Franklin: Depending upon the depth, it's possible to go down to the southeast...so there's a
possibility that they could sewer that land without going to the north. It depends
on the topography after the grading, it depends upon the depth of the pipe, and all
of those things would be determined at such time as we looked at this
development project.
Vanderhoef: So, where is the nearest sewer line to tap into?
Franklin: You know, Dee, I'm not sure if it's down here or if it goes down to Melrose
Avenue, but there is another option right here.
Vanderhoef: And there is an easement through Walnut Ridge at that point? Or is that where
they took it to the boundary?
Franklin: Right there is a man hole.
Vanderhoefi Okay, so it's already there, so if the gravity flow would take it -
Franklin: Right, the question is...some of the property goes this way...it flows that
way...there is a high point in here...and so it's a matter of whether you can get
the pipe deep enough to pull in this area to get it to go down to here. We just
won't know that until all of the grading is done for that particular subdivision at
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some future time. With the blanket easement and with the escrowed amount for
that sewer, we can achieve the intent of the code, even though it's not strictly
extending it at this point.
Vanderhoefi And the lift station that is in place right now would handle all of it to the south
and to the north without upgrading the lift station?
Franklin: This is sized for the watershed, yes. Yes, it would be big enough...what we do
with these lift stations is that we look at the watershed and make sure that they're
big enough and you can add extra impellers to in fact have the capacity for the
whole watershed.
Vanderhoef: Okay.
Bailey: Going back north, was an easement...a blanket easement discussed in the north
and...or it just seems so certain that that would develop before the property to the
north?
Franklin: I can't answer that question.
Bailey: Okay.
Franklin: I don't know that a blanket easement was discussed there.
Elliott: Karin, just so I understand...back up north...you said that if the north were to be
developed...there were only two alternatives...one, they would have to reach an
agreement with Southgate or the City would have an opportunity to condemn?
Franklin: Yep.
Elliott: Or they would not develop?
Franklin: Well, that's a third.
Elliott: That's a third because they must have sewer to develop.
Franklin: Absolutely.
Elliott: And the only sewer available would be coming from the south through Southgate.
Is that correct?
Franklin: Yes. In Iowa City.
Elliott: Okay.
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Franklin: Visual aides here. Camp Cardinal Boulevard coming around here, Deer Creek
Road T-ing in here. This is where Kennedy Parkway is paved to at this point and
time. Right at this alignment. This is where Kennedy Parkway will come across,
through Cardinal Ridge Development, and it will intersect then with Camp
Cardinal Road. The issue is construction traffic as well as residential traffic going
through the Walnut Ridge subdivision. What has been asked for by the residents
is an alternative route for construction, both for the infrastructure and for the
residential construction. The only option right now is Camp Cardinal Road. By
the time this construction starts, there will be improvement to Camp Cardinal
Road to this point only. If any of you have driven on it lately, it's quite a thrill.
It's this loose crushed rock and it's quite elevated and you feel like you might go
right into the ditch. But, that will be paved by the end of this fall and it's likely
that construction here is not going to precede that. However, Camp Cardinal
Road is a rural...I wouldn't even call it a cross-section. It's a rural road. It's oil
or chip-seal...I don't know if it's even gone so far as chip-seal but it is narrow...it
would be eaten up and spit out by construction traffic...so it's not a good
alternative. (TAPE ENDS - TURN TO SIDE 2) Okay, now that you have that
visual in your head...we have done traffic counts on Kennedy Parkway and we
have done traffic estimates or traffic projections for Cardinal Ridge. Those
numbers do not exceed the standard that we have for collector streets. Kennedy
Parkway is, has always been planned for a collector street. Yes, it does have
different standards than other collectors. The analogy I would draw would be to
Foster Road, in that when we built Foster Road, we built it at a narrower width
than you would for an arterial, however, what we do is restrict access to that road.
There is no parking along that road. So, it has the capacity to handle a given
amount of traffic. Kennedy Parkway is, for the most part, twenty-eight feet wide,
however, it is a bifurcated street. It's got islands in the middle of it...or medians,
I couldn't think of the word, and so there are stretches of it in which, in those
bifurcations, you probably got more than you would normally have for paving of
the local street. There is no parking that is permitted on Kenney Parkway. As
you can see from the plat, the majority of the homes, not all of them, but the
majority of the homes do not have their driveway access from Kennedy Parkway,
they have it from side roads. So, there is quite a bit of capacity in that road. As
development occurs, we look at these numbers every time to see if it's going to
exceed our standards. One of the suggestions has been out lot E and G, that is the
area that we were talking about to the north and then this area here, that the
development of those areas be suspended until Kennedy Parkway is through to
Camp Cardinal Boulevard. Before we would approve a plat on those roads, we
would do counts as we have done this time, to see if the number of units that are
put in there are going to take us over the 2500 vehicles per day that are a standard
for a collector street. So, that particular provision, that the Walnut Ridge
neighborhood would like, I think is a reasonable one that we would adhere to
anyway. I guess the other thing that I would speak to is the connection...whoops,
I keep going the wrong way...is the connection with Camp Cardinal Boulevard.
This is the point at which Kennedy Parkway will end with the completion of
Cardinal Ridge. This is a 93-1ot single-family subdivision. It is going to probably
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take, optimistically, three to four years to build out. Camp Cardinal Boulevard
will be done in July of 2006. So, the piece that becomes critical is this piece
between Camp Cardinal Boulevard and the Cardinal Ridge subdivision. If we
were to find, with further development of these out lots, that it exceeded the 2500
vehicles, at that point we would require Kennedy Parkway to be extended to
Camp Cardinal Boulevard in order for any further development to take place here.
So, there is timing issues here, timing issues in terms of the traffic from this
neighborhood going through the Walnut Ridge neighborhood. In terms of
planning, we look at these as one neighborhood and not as two. There is the issue
of the construction traffic. There is the issue of the connection with Kennedy
Parkway, which this all kind of revolves around - er, uh, Kennedy Parkway
connecting with Camp Cardinal Boulevard, which this also revolves around. I
guess as you look at this, what I would ask you to do is to look at other places in
the community in which we have subdivisions and that there is a next subdivision
on the horizon. Phoenix Drive at Southwest Estates. Hickory Trail on the east
side. Pepperwood on the south side. All of these roads go through subdivisions,
or existing neighborhoods, and then go on to the next part of the City. So, if
you're going to require alternative routes for construction traffic, you're going to
have to think about this as a general policy whenever you do any approval of re-
zonings and plats.
Lehman: Karin, in here it says a good-faith effort for construction traffic to use alternative
routes. There are none.
Franklin: Right. Unless Camp Cardinal Road is used, which I must say I'm not sure how
realistic that is. When you go on Camp Cardinal Road heading north from this
area, it's quite precipitous.
Lehman: There really is no altemative to using...Kennedy is the road that has to be used.
Franklin: Unless you required...and I'm not advocating this...as much as...because I asked
you to look at other areas of the City...to think about how you're going to deal
with these issues as the City grows...but once Camp Cardinal Boulevard is
finished next July, this property is owned by the same developer, that if you
required them to put in some kind of a road...I don't know what it would
take.., for construction vehicles...I mean, I'm not recommending it, but it's not
like physically one could not do it.
Lehman: Okay.
Bailey: There was a development on the southeast side that we did have a preference
about the street.
Franklin: Yes. That was general quarters...which is on the east side of Sycamore...in
which it is right on Sycamore but does not have an access point to Sycamore.
During that subdivision, the request requirement was made that construction
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traffic would have to come off of Sycamore. What that means is going up over a
curb and getting onto the ground. There is no distance issue there.
Bailey: But it was a precedent of requiring an alternative.
Franklin: Exactly. The alternative was that people were going to go north, what is that little
short road...
Elliott: Stanwyck is that little oval.
Franklin: I don't remember the name...this was going north to Lakeside...and the
neighborhood requested that the construction traffic come in from Sycamore
instead of going Lakeside and down this other road.
Lehman: Eleanor, you looked poised?
Dilkes: It was our opinion at that time and is our opinion in connection with this
subdivision that it's purely that. It's a good faith effort. It's not...it would
require the voluntary compliance by Southgate. We can not fome them to not use
Kennedy Parkway. It's a public street.
Lehman: Thanks.
Elliott: The only thing...as this stands now...Karin, I'm like you, I don't...when you go
down...is it Lakeside that goes off of Sycamore... and then there is a little half-
block street, whatever that is, but...I don't know if it was the City's doing or the
developer's doing but it is impossible to go from Stanwyck to the development
because the road there isn't finished. I don't know if that was a part of the
developer's good faith...now, if you go around that curve on Stanwyck, you can't
go through because there isn't a road there yet.
Franklin: I think that came out of all the discussions that that would be the last piece that
would go in.
Elliott: It appears to be working.
Vanderhoefi Can you tell me the status of the proposed trail that was to have been in Walnut
Ridge and whether there are easements still in place for that and whose
responsibility is it for that to be completed?
Franklin: There are easements in place. It is the homeowners association or the developer's
family homeowners association responsibility to complete that. Those are
easements that often go, well, let's see...if this is Burr Oak...I'm not sure...I
know there is one that goes up along the backs of the lots here. I'm not sure how
practical it is because you would basically be in people's back yards.
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Vanderhoefi I'm looking at the connection between the two and the alternative to a trail in this
whole area versus the area that doesn't have any sidewalks...and certainly, as we
progress all the way out to 218, and the Clear Creek Trail is an important piece
and it goes way north through the hilly areas...
Franklin: It's right in here.
Vanderhoef: But there is...ahhh...if you follow the creek...ahhh...even though it goes through
University property, I would like to see discussions started with what can we put
in that area that would help all of these developing neighborhoods because we just
read about new trail dollars for Tiffin and Coralville to complete the Clear Creek
Trail between those two cities...and it would be a shame if we didn't have the
connection through this whole developing area.
Franklin: Right now...it's either construction or we're doing it this summer...Jeff, I'm
looking at you...there is an enhanced sidewalk trail that is coming from Melrose
Avenue north through the University property and will hit the University parking
lot and then connect with Clear Creek Trail that is just to the east of here on
University property. We have had discussions with residents of Walnut Ridge in
the past about connecting the sidewalk system to either the Clear Creek Trail or to
this parking lot that is on University property. Recently, when the University was
looking at expanding that parking lot, we made it known to them that there had
been this sentiment. My understanding is that there was a neighborhood meeting
held, or there was a meeting held in which the neighborhood was invited. I did
not attend that, so I'm...this is kind of hearsay. My understanding is that there
was not interest expressed by those people who attended who were from the
neighborhood, if they did attend, to having this connection made. I think there is
still opportunity to do that, in that there is a sidewalk on this side of Kennedy
Parkway, to connect with the University parking lot, to then in turn connect with
the system that goes north-south and hits Clear Creek. If we were to try to put a
trail through here, which would be the next logical short spot to get to the Clear
Creek Trail. There are no sidewalks on these cul-de-sacs. We do not have any
easements that I recall that are through these lots to get to that trail system. You
might be able to get one coming in the back here, again it would be right in back
of what feels like people's back yards to come up and hit the Clear Creek Trail. I
think that would something that we certainly could work with the neighborhood if
they are interested in it...both getting sidewalks on Kennedy Parkway and
connection to the Clear Creek Trail. Another trail option we're looking at is
along this stream corridor. I know Parks and Recreation is looking at that as an
opportunity and they looked at it as they looked at the neighborhood open space.
Vanderhoef: And that connection...I thought that was a piece of Clear Creek...that stream
going through there because that -
Franklin: This is a tributary to Clear Creek.
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Vanderhoef: Okay. That's the one that to me makes the most sense to take in all of this
growing -
Franklin: But we don't have anything in Walnut Ridge and...
Vanderhoef: I was led to believe that there was a spot...aahhh...
Franklin: Not on the creek.
Vanderhoef: Someplace real close in that area to...ahh...connect with the University property,
which would be the one that would be the one that would be like the short cut if
you wanted to go noah in to Coralville you might go up to the noahem Clear
Creek trail but there ought to be another one that would connect you to Melrose or
parts east and connect over near the Mormon Trek site.
Franklin: Jeff, is there anything more you want to add to this discussion about trails?
Davidson: I think the trail that you had suggested we were going to build got built last year.
It connects Melrose to the Clear Creek Trail through the University.
Franklin: Okay, thank you.
Vanderhoef: It is built?
Franklin: Yes.
Bailey: We need a field trip.
Franklin: On a bike.
Lehman: Okay.
Franklin: I think that's all I have to say about that unless you have questions.
Franklin: Going on to...a rezoning...public hearing and first consideration on a rezoning to
CI, or no...wait...
Dilkes: Karin, do you want to note on the last one that we don't have a...
Franklin: Yes, thank you. We do not have a signed CZA for the Cardinal Ridge and it's not
likely that we'll have one by tomorrow night.
Lehman: So, we open the hearing and then continue it?
Franklin: Please. Continue to 8/16.
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Champion: Before we leave this, I just want you to give us a short synopsis of the wetland
issue...in five sentences or less.
Franklin: Okay, what was being requested here is wetland averaging and the decision of the
Planning and Zoning Commission was to confer with the developer that
protecting these wetlands around here around the stream corridor was a more
valuable protection and therefore having less of a buffer in wetlands in this area
was a reasonable average. That was one sentence.
Lehman: A long one, but good one.
ITEM D. CONDITIONALLY REZONING APPROXIMATELY 2.19 ACRES FROM
INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL (CI-1) ZONE AND MEDIUM DENSITY
SINGLE -FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-8) ZONE TO COMMUNITY
COMMERCIAL (CC-2) ZONE FOR PROPERTY LOCATED BETWEEN
NORTH DODGE STREET AND DODGE STREET COURT, EAST OF
CONKLIN LANE (REZ05-00003).
Franklin: Okay, North Dodge Street Court. This is a rezoning to CC-2 from CI-1 and RS-8.
This location on North Dodge Street is where Mayor's Youth was for many years
in CI-1 - or Little Wheels, for those of you who are old-timers. This also has a
conditional zoning agreement, which I'll refer you to because it's got a lot of
detail to it. Essentially the debate here was about access to North Dodge Street
Court and there was also a concern on the part of people who live in the area, or
some people who live in the area, about drainage. Let me address the access to
North Dodge Street Court first. In our North District Plan, which is part of our
Comprehensive Plan, there is some specificity in that plan in that it expressly
indicates that there should not be, as this area develops commercially, commercial
access to North Dodge Street Court. What is being requested is there are two
means of access to North Dodge Street Court and here on this illustration you've
got Dodge Street along the top of the illustration, Conklin on your left and then an
access for a driveway through exit for a financial institution and an access for
residential. The access for residential was not the debatable point. The access for
the commercial was the debatable point. What has been concluded as it went
through Planning and Zoning is that they would accept the access for a financial
institution, but if it was any use other than that that is allowed in CC-2, that that
access should come from Dodge Street. That was agreed to by the developers so
this concept plan was endorsed with the exit only drive-throughs for the financial
institutions. Part of this was to have North Dodge Street Court improved to City
standards. Whenever we have a subdivision, and certainly with the rezoning,
when there is access to a street that is substandard, our effort is to get that street
upgraded to City standards. In the past with development in this area and North
Dodge Street Court, we had a residential subdivision for duplexes. At that time,
the decision was made not to upgrade the street because we didn't have sufficient
right of way. There were a couple ofhouses...well, this house still exists, one
house to the north and it was just too narrow to get a street in. Now we have an
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opportunity to get the street improved. With this rezoning, there will be a
dedication of sufficient right of way to achieve a fifty-foot right of way here, save
for this little piece, and the developer, so long as they have access to this street,
would share in the cost of the improvement of the street along this property. If
there is no financial institution and the access is Dodge Street and if this access
for the residential development is not included, if that also is directed out, then the
developer would not be compelled to share in the cost of improvement of the
road, however, we still would expect to get the dedicated right of way. Similarly,
the agreement anticipates ten foot of additional on Conklin. This is to enable a
left, through, and right coming out of Conklin, which this was to be...it was not
acquired as part of the Dodge Street construction project. Evidently, Public
Works had decided that that acquisition would happen as development
occurs...development is occurring a lot sooner than anticipated. Drainage. The
drainage issues that have been raised are to the east. Primarily, the strongest
concern, as I understand it, is from the property owner that is at the very end of
Dodge Street Court, just as it starts to turn and go down the hill into the ravine.
There is a house that's right at the end of that on the north side of Dodge Street
Court. One of the stipulations in this conditional zoning agreement is that any
runoff from this site will be direct to Dodge. Now, with the improvement of
North Dodge Street Court, that would be put in at 28 feet back a curb to back a
curb, sidewalk and storm sewer, which means that, at this point, we've got a
storm sewer coming out. Or, we may decide...you all may decide.. ,that at such
time as this gets improved, we do the whole project all the way to the end and we
would have to engineer how that storm water would be managed to get it down
the hill into the gulch.
Lehman: Are you saying that this development as we're looking at it, the storm water is
being managed on site or on the street.., so we're not talking about run-off going
to the east?
Franklin: We're not talking about what?
Lehman: We're not talking about runoff from this project going on anybody else's
property?
Franklin: That's correct. That the conditional zoning agreement stipulates that with the site
plan that any run-off from this development would go out to the Dodge Street
storm sewer system.
Lehman: And if the...
Franklin: The only thing we'd have to deal with is the minimal storm water that would flow
from the street itself.
Lehman: But if the street itself is brought up to City standards, we'll have a storm sewer on
the street.
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Franklin: Yes it will.
Lehman: Okay.
Champion: The water doesn't always go in there.
Lehman: No, but the majority of it does.
Franklin: Well, the issue is that of how complete this project becomes. With this
development, North Dodge Street Court would improved from this comer to this
comer.
Bailey: Only a portion is what you're saying?
Franklin: Right, we could make the decision to extend that as a City project to go from that
point down the hill...
Lehman: How far?
Bailey: How many more feet would that be?
Franklin: Uhhmmm...a few...I don't know...I can't remember, I'm sorry. About double?
Champion: Oh.
Franklin: It's not a big deal actually. As streets go, I think the total for the project was
$220,000 to go the whole way. Maybe I'm...
Bailey: And if the developer doesn't have access to North Dodge Court, the developer
won't pay for the improvements?
Franklin: Has no obligation to pay for those improvements.
Bailey: What about the buffering between residential and commercial?
Franklin: That remains. This bit all remains. And, if this driveway comes out, if there is no
access, then this is continued on through this twenty-foot setback here.
Bailey: So there are two access points that are proposed although the financial institution
is speculative?
Franklin: That's correct.
Bailey: But then not the parking lot, I assume?
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Franklin: This is not speculative. If this doesn't happen...I'm kind of putting myself in
their shoes now and Glenn can jump up and down if I'm wrong...if this doesn't
happen, they might consider redirecting where this traffic goes so they don't have
to pay for the street. That's what I would do.
Vanderhoefi Okay, tell me how may bedrooms we have in each of those units...aahhh...I'm
just looking at fourteen parking spaces and ten units.
Franklin: They will have whatever number of parking spaces they need to have
whatever.., if they don't have enough parking for the number of bedrooms, they
have that many bedrooms. That's a given. That's the laws. It has to meet the
code.
Bailey: What was the...I'm sorry...I can't remember...what was the traffic count given
this...onto North Dodge Court...because we got a couple of letters in our
packet...
Franklin: I remember...
Bailey: I don't recall.
Franklin: Okay, for...with the survey that we did, based on a ten-hour business day for a
bank...or a financial institution, it would equal 380-580 exiting vehicles a day.
The ICE manual indicates that three drive-through lanes would be 986 to 1233.
So, our local seems to be a little less than the manual...but still...
Bailey: What about the apartments?
Franklin: For the apartments...did we do a trip generation for that, Mr. Davidson? Yeah,
we did. 60 to 70. Six per unit.
Elliott: Karin, three quick questions. First, was there any philosophy involved or was
there just a compromise? Why, if it's a financial institution, would they get it...if
it's an insurance office or a hardware store, they wouldn't? What's special about
a financial institution?
Franklin: A financial institution, in today's market, requires a drive-through. An insurance
office would not and so it wouldn't have to have this access. So, for a financial
institution to succeed, you have to have a drive-through.
Elliott: So if there is anything else that required a drive-through, then that would be
appropriate also?
Franklin: No, the only thing...the other thing that was looked at...that was beneficial to the
area was uses that were not already provided along this corridor.
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Elliott: So the financial institution had to do with what's available in the area. That's the
reason. Oh, would there be a time...there seems to be several concerns...would
there be a time when at least I and maybe others have someone from the staff take
us to these places and say 'Here we are, here's where we are on the map, here's
what's going on, here's what going...'
Franklin: We can take you three at a time.
Elliott: Good, I think I would benefit from that. Third, could we see Glen jump up and
down?
Lehman: Karin, is this ready for tomorrow night?
Franklin: The CZA on this is not signed either, but I think there is some minor changes that
can be taken care of and it will be signed.
Lehman: So unless we hear otherwise...it's appropriate to...
Franklin: Otherwise figure it's a good. If it's not then I'll jump and down.
Lehman: That I will be waiting for.
ITEM E. REZONING APPROXIMATELY 3.16 ACRES FROM INTERIM
DEVELOPMENT SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (ID-RS) ZONE TO
LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY (RS-5) ZONE FOR PROPERTY
LOCATED EAST OF HIGHWAY 218 AND SOUTH OF MELROSE
AVENUE. (REZ05-00008).
Franklin: Item E is a rezoning of 3.16 acres from ID-RS to RS-5. This is the Galway
Subdivision on the west side south of Melrose Avenue. Allows twenty-six single-
family...the one thing that we've done is that we've suggested that there be a
buffer along...that the developer plan a buffer along here. See...these lots are the
closest ones that are 218 however, this is the zoning boundary line, so it's just a
suggestion. This is the only part that is being rezoned so we can't require it.
Vanderhoef: Karin, the hash mark area, particularly on the east side, and the margin...come a
little further this way...wrong way...
Franklin: That's west. Here?
Vanderhoef: Take the road, circle...now those lots... 19, 20, 21, 22...along there...they've got
the hash marks going across them about slopes .... and it appears to me that some
of those you're building on protected slopes...
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Franklin: No, the black is protected and these are the buffers around that protect the slopes.
These are critical and steep slopes where you can disturb those slopes, you just
have to minimize.
Vanderhoef: Several of those lots are all nothing but slope...critical slopes...how can we
approve building on those?
Franklin: The ordinance permits building on steep and critical slopes, it just encourages you
to minimize the amount of building on those slopes and...these here are like that
as well as these in here. The only slopes on which you can not build are the
protected slopes...but the steep and the critical and are less steep than the
protected...the ordinance permits building on them. It advises to minimize the
amount of grading that you have to do, but to enable develop to happen, it allows
development on those slopes.
Vanderhoef: But it concerns me that whole lots are covered with critical slopes and we're
building on them. I can see how you could build around on many of those other
lots.., but there's about four lots on there...
Franklin: It follows the code.
Lehman: Karin, this is only for 3.16 acres.
Franklin: Yes, because this part is the ID-RS. Part of it is already zoned RS-8, this little
dotted line here is the zone boundary so this triangle is what needs to be rezoned.
Lehman: So that's the only part that we're dealing with?
Franklin: Yes, for the rezoning.
Lehman: So everything to east of that cul-de-sac is not included in the rezoning?
Franklin: That's correct.
Vanderhoef: But the other is in the platting?
Franklin: Absolutely, and in the sensitive areas plan...but it does comply with the code.
Lehman: Okey-dokey.
Vanderhoef: Maybe we should have a conversation about that some time. If there is a certain
percent of that lot that...
ITEM F. REZONING APPROXIMATELY 2.72 ACRES FROM FACTORY-BUILT
HOUSING RESIDENTIAL (RFBH) ZONE TO PLANNED
DEVELOPMENT HOUSING-HIGH DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (PDH-
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12) ZONE FOR PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF HEINZ ROAD
(REZ05-00009).
Franklin: Okay, Item F is rezoning 2.72 acres from RFBH factory-built housing to PDH12.
This is in the Saddlebrook Area. It is a piece of property that is just north of thc
clubhouse and is being proposed for a mixed-use development. 9,000 square feet
of commercial space and 30 multi-family units. The configuration is kind of this
open square on Heinz Road and the buildings face that square and then the
parking is to the side and to the rear of those buildings.
Lehman: Karin, I'm sorry, but on the Dodge Street Court, are there enough objections to
that rezoning to require...
Franklin: No, it's only seven percent so far.
Lehman: Thank you, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Franklin: That's it on that one on Saddlebrook.
Bailey: Just out ofcuriosity...there are no sanitary sewer tap-on fees for this portion of
the City. What does that mean? I've never seen that before.
Franklin: It's not an area where we have covered for a sewer tap-on fee. I think it is served
by the southeast interceptor...and so those tap-on fees on generally considered for
major trunk lines.
ITEM G. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING
DESIGNATION OF APPROXIMATELY 29.7 ACRES OF PROPERTY,
LOCATED NORTH EAST OF HIGHWAY 218 AND DEER CREEK
ROAD, FROM COUNTY RESIDENTIAL TO INTERIM DEVELOPMENT
- OFFICE RESEARCH PARK (REZ05-00006) (PASS AND ADOPT)
Franklin: Item G is pass and adopt on the rezoning for the Horton and Clear Creek
Property...that little triangle between 218 and the Master Plan for Clear Creek.
The annexation is all done.
ITEM H. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF MWD
DAVIS ADDITION, A PORTION OF WHICH INCLUDES A
RESUBDIVISION OF LOTS 13-17 OF RIt DAVIS SUBDIVISION, AND A
PORTION OF OLDE OAK LANE IN RH DAVIS SUBDIVISION, IOWA
CITY, IOWA (SUB05-00009) (DEFERRED FROM 7/19)
Franklin: Item H, we are asking for deferral again. Construction plans...it's working
through the details of the Naples/Highway 1 intersection, which is presenting
some difficulties.
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Karr: Indefinite or two weeks?
Franklin: Two weeks, please.
Lehman: The 16th?
Franklin: Yes.
ITEM I. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY PLAT
OF A RESUBDIVISION OF NORTH AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT, IOWA
CITY, IOWA. (SUB05-00011)
Franklin: Item I is to consider a resolution approving the preliminary plat of a
resubdivision. This is Aviation Commerce Park. The new subdivision moves
Rupert Road north to become West Port Drive so that you'll come in off of
Riverside and Westport Drive will take you right through and to Westport Plaza.
Rupert Road will come from the north from Highway 1 and will end at Westport
Drive. What was Rupert Road will be a cul-de-sac. Spitz Court. If these lots are
sold as one piece, Spitz Court will be obliterated.
Lehman: Before it's even built.
Franklin: Well, actually, this part is there. We won't be putting the bulb in the cul-de-sac
until we know whether a single lot is going to be sold or not. As part of this
relocation of Westport, Wal-Mart pays for all of that as well as well as all of this
intersection stuff right here.
Lehman: Great.
ITEM J. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF
COUNTRY CLUB ESTATES, PART 2, IOWA CITY, IOWA (SUB04-
00014)
Franklin: Item J is the final plat of Country Club Estates, Part 2, which was approved by the
Planning and Zoning Commission on a vote of 7-0 at their May 20t"2004
meeting. We finally have the legal papers and construction plans and they're
peachy. And we're done.
Lehman: Okay. Thank you, Karin.
COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS
Lehman: We did not have any applications for appointments, did we?
Elliott: No, I didn't see any.
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DOWNTOWN LOADING ZONES
Lehman: Okay, Downtown Loading Zones.
Atkins: We placed it on the agenda at your request. Chris O'Brien is here to answer your
questions if you have any new ideas, old ideas, no ideas.
Champion: I have some problems...I don't know if have the answers.
Lehman: Somebody get up there so we have a target. (Laughter)
Champion: My problem with loading zones downtown is that they're inadequate. Second of
all, if you look around downtown...and I specifically look when I'm going to
work between ten and noon...that most of the loading zones on Iowa Avenue and
Washington Street and a small loading zone on Dubuque Street are filled with
cars. There are never any delivery vehicles. I think we could solve a lot of our
loading problems downtown if we just enforced the loading zone and if we made
that one loading zone by the alley in front of the Deadwood...no, not the
Deadwood...the Sports Column, a little bit...I think we have a loading
zone...because the only people who are parking there are people who are working
at the Sports Column. So, beer tracks are parked in the road two, three, four
hours at a time. I've even seen a policeman talking to the beer truck driver...who
still spent two more hours there. So, we're not enforcing the rules for
everybody.., but if my customer has one minute off of their parking meter, they
get a ticket. So, what I'm saying is that I don't think we're enforcing parking
enforcement evenly. I have a bug-a-boo about the beer trucks parked in the
middle of Dubuque Street because they leave their motors running and I can't
ever open my store door. I know there are times they have to park there and I
don't object to that...but I don't think they should be able to occupy hours there
when they're having lunch or whatever. We've talked about this before and tried
to deal with it before.
Bailey: What have we done before?
Champion: We've sent out letters...you know...
Elliott: I'm sure in other cities...there are hours after which you can not park in the
middle of the street. It seems to me that we ought to be able to do that but I
would like to have some information from the merchants to see what kind of
hardship that would bring, but it...
Atkins: Chris, give them a thumbnail sketch of what you were thinking about.
O'Brien: There are two issues. We'll address the issue of the single-occupancy vehicles
first before we go to deliveries.
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Atkins: The vigorous enforcement is...simply nod your head and we can write tickets up.
O'Brien: That's fine. As far as personal vehicles being parked there...there is an ordinance
that I just gave to Sue today.., that I'm looking for your blessing of course...that
changes...the current ordinance is that you can write the ticket and then you have
to wait another two hours before you can enforce it again.
Champion: It's a twenty-minute limit.
O'Brien: Correct. That's where my issue is. The actual ordinance reads that you can issue
the first citation and the next citation can't occur until two hours after that. The
ordinance that I gave to legal to look and pass on is to change that to thirty-
minutes rather than two hours.
Lehman: For twenty-minute meters?
O'Brien: The commercial loading zones are 30 minutes, the personal loading zones are 15.
If can enforce a $10 ticket every fifteen minutes, it gets to be kind of delicate, but
what we're trying to do is to get the personal vehicles out of the loading zones. By
doing that, that opens up the spaces for the commercial vehicles to be in there,
which will then open up your, hopefully, Dubuque Street, hopefully the lane of
traffic on...
Champion: That's never going to go away, I don't think.
O'Brien: I think the problem is that they'll park there and deliver everywhere from that one
location. For them to stop on Dubuque Street, load and unload, get in their
vehicle and try to find another place to park to do another delivery is asking a lot
for a truck that is forty-feet long.
Vanderhoef: Do they really walk blocks with those beer carts?
O'Brien: If you look at just off Dubuque Street at all the customers that they have up
Washington and if you look... Budweiser probably has four to five different trucks
that they'll have in the downtown area at one time due to the large amounts that
they have to deliver...especially on Thursday, Friday evenings.
Champion: You never see the driver delivering. You don't see the driver for an hour.
O'Brien: I'm not going to ask my people to go look for them. I can't tell you that they'll sit
in the Sports Column and have lunch - but some might. I'm hoping that the 30
minute ordinance will help.
Champion: My whole problem is that we have a terrible abuse of loading zones downtown.
It's a ridiculous abuse and then people complain about no commercial parking. I
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can tell you that it's all being used by everybody. I'm sorry to tell you but it's
used mainly by retailers and business owners.
O'Brien: We've done meter studies downtown, through Planning, to see what the meter
feeding and that's always been one that we've shied away from...there is an
ordinance on the books to enforce meter-feeding through the City, which means
that the term of your meter is up and that's it.
Champion: I just think that most of the parking is taken up by people who own businesses or
people who work at them.
Lehman: Connie, are you looking for a vote of confidence from the Council?
Champion: Yes.
Bailey: I wonder...Washington Street is often just one lane because there are commercial
vehicles parked. What can be done about that? Aren't those two zones personal
loading zones? Which aren't commercial...which means that I can park there,
run into the post office...
Champion: On both sides of the street.
O'Donnell: The trucks big problem downtown is that there are too many cars parked in the
alleys. Eliminate the parking of cars in the alleys and regulate only delivery
vehicles and I think we solve a big problem.
Bailey: What is classified as a delivery vehicle? Can anybody put that sign in their car? I
think there's a lot of that.
Elliott: I was told, when I used to do a lot of business with the College of Business, I
would park across the street, bring my materials in, bring some things out, I did
get a ticket and I was told that ifI had a sign on both sides of my car and the
dimensions of the sign were told to me...anything other than a vehicle having
those signs would be ticketed. Is that still the same situation?
O'Brien: Yes. It's a three-inch height that is required on both sides of the vehicle. I've
actually done research on this on the net trying to find different definitions and to
be honest, it's difficult to regulate because if you start asking them to be certified
or have a special sticker then everybody will have one that has a small business
and you'll have somebody's Lexus parked there with a sticker in the back because
that's their business vehicle and you won't issue them a citation but the car next
to it you'll give them a citation for an expired meter and then you'll run into the
problem of 'why are they getting tickets and I'm not'.
Champion: It's going on all the time.
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Elliott: We're interested in getting approval to ticket any car, any vehicle that is not
commercial in a loading zone and to ticket any vehicle that exceeds 30 minutes in
a loading zone, is that what we're talking about?
O'Brien: Currently we do issue citations to every...if a vehicle is in a commercial loading
zone without the appropriate commercial signage, they do get a citation, but then
we can't enforce it for another two hours.
Elliott: So, you're looking for a more rapid...
O'Brien: Correct, because there really is no motivation for them to leave once you give
them first citation. Which is why, with the meters,...I don't know what the
regulation was before ! got here, but it's not enforced once every sixty minutes to
increase the turnover and I think that's been effective. But you get two hours in
thirty-minute loading zone...
Bailey: We did a cost analysis of getting a ticket versus feeding a meter and the ticket
wins out every time.
O'Brien: We increased the rates and what we found is that our number of citations went
down and the amount of money in our meters actually increased. (TAPE ENDS -
NEW TAPE)
TAPE 05-47
Bailey: (unclear)
O'Brien: They actually tried that...I think Joe was telling me that they actually tried that
here a while back and that basically what they found is that if a company had six
different vehicles registered, every one of them would have one of those, you'd
lose your metered stalls...the best one that I saw was, and this has no relevance
really, it was in New York but it required that all seats be removed from a vehicle
except for those that were used for the driver so it was open for deliveries and
storage of...so that you couldn't use a personal vehicle or a van...that's been the
best one that I've seen.
Lehman: At one time you could put a piece of cardboard in your window with your store
name and then everybody did it... so we required the signs.
Atkins: Are you okay with the 30 minute?
Bailey: Can we look into delivery hours?
Elliott: You mean hours after which you can not park in the middle of the street?
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O'Brien: If you'd like, I can do some more research and come back to you guys with some
options.
Bailey: I think talking to merchants...didn't she suggest talking to...
Elliott: I'd like to get some feedback because we're sitting here...we don't know what
kind of hardships...
Champion: I don't want to do that without some feedback from the merchants because a lot of
those bars don't open until 3 or 4.
Atkins: What was it that you didn't want to do?
Champion: I don't want to limit what time deliveries can be made.
Atkins: The time of day is not what you're interested in but the amount of time they're
there.
Bailey: I'm interested in looking at delivery hours if we can get some feedback from
merchants.
Champion: I agree that we can look at it but ! don't want to make that decision now. I know I
complain about this all the time, but...when we start to enforce it...it does get
better for about six months. It does. Then it gets really terrible again.
Bailey: Now is the time to get really tough.
Elliott: Establish authority.
Vanderhoefi I would like to have them look at deliveries completed by noon. I don't think
that's such a big hardship even if some of them don't open...they certainly are
there preparing their kitchens.
Wilbum: Some of the bars run out of beer at 10:00pm on some weekends.
O'Brien: Right, with no scheduled second deliveries.
Lehman: There are some places downtown that don't sell beer...some of those places get
deliveries that come in from California at 3:00pm in the afternoon. They have to
be able to deliver in the afternoon.
Champion: American Express...not American Express...what is it...Federal Express_they
deliver all the time, especially if it's an overnight package.
O'Brien: They have pretty good leeway as to what we will let LIPS and Fed Ex do because
we know they're in and out before we're going to make it back.
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Lehman: They'll be out before you get writing the ticket.
O'Brien: Their job is to run in and mn out...so...
Champion: If we can just think about it and do a little more enforcement...and really...
Elliott: Can you come back to us with what you would recommend?
O'Brien: Sure. Is there a timetable that you're looking at?
Champion: Tomorrow would be great. (Laughter)
Lehman: We meet tomorrow night.
O'Donnell: What's a realistic time?
O'Brien: Whatever you tell me you would like.
Lehman: No.
O'Brien: One month.
Lehman: Absolutely.
Bailey: I would like to see increased enforcement especially during the school year. I
would really like to see increased enforcement.
Champion: Well, we'll have to send letters before we do that.
Lehman: I don't know that you've got to send letters on increased enforcement. They
know the law.
Atkins: Connie, we can do a windshield notice.
O'Brien: Plus we can issue warning citations as well.
Atkins: We'll let folks know it's on its way, give them a heads up, because we're going to
vigorously enforce.
O'Brien: We're also capable of issuing warnings that are no fines to just let them know
what is coming.
Lehman: It's going to take us some time to get an ordinance -
Dilkes: The thirty-minute ordinance is already in the works, that can be on next time.
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Lehman: Does that take three readings, too? But we can expedite it.
Elliott: To two readings.
O'Brien: So, come back in a month with the other.
Lehman: It will be interesting to see when you start the increased enforcement. We may
save you some time if we tried that for a while and see how that addresses the
problem. It may address the problem to the point where you don't need to.
O'Brien: I think it will eliminate the personal vehicles which will open up the room for
your commercial vehicles in the zones that were prescribed for them.
Champion: That's the problem that I have is the personal vehicles in those loading zones.
Lehman: Could we try the more zealous enforcement for six weeks or whatever and then go
back and decide if we want to look at delivery times and see what it does?
Vanderhoefi When we look at delivery times and so forth, I still would like to make a
distinction between local deliveries and freight that is coming in from out of town.
Champion: Beer is coming in from out of town.
Lehman: Can you legally do that?
Vanderhoef: I don't know. I'm asking. United Parcel and LIPS and those things that are
coming in constantly versus beer deliveries that have local distributors.
Elliott: All I can say is that when I've driven down North Michigan Avenue in Chicago,
it's tough enough going there and there certainly aren't beer trucks parked in the
middle of the street. I don't know what they do.
Champion: They are in Boston.
Elliott: Are we clear?
Lehman: Yes, let's see what happens. Thank you. Alright guys, Council Time.
COUNCIL TIME
ITEM # 2e(2) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING ON
AUGUST 16, 2005 ON PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF
CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF
THE JC DogPAC DOG PARK PROJECT, DIRECTING CITY CLERK
TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF SAID HEARING, AND DIRECTING
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THE CITY ENGINEER TO PLACE SAID PLANS ON FILE FOR
PUBLIC INSPECTION.
Bailey: I see Dog Park people here and I wondered if they wanted to say anything since
they've hung in. Thanks for the fundraising plan.
O'Donnell: This is very nice.
Lehman: Okay, Agenda Items.
AGENDA ITEMS
Bailey: I did have one item for Council Time. Regarding our recycling program, can we
look at the availability of recycling in the public areas of the City buildings, like
the lobby out here? I don't know about anything in the recreation center. I don't
think there is anything in the Senior Center.
Lehman: Okay.
Champion: The Senior Center does have recycling bins right by their vending machines.
Bailey: They have it for soda but do they have it for plastic?
ITEM 13. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING, AUTHORIZING AND
DIRECTING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK TO
ATTEST AN AGREEMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA
CITY AND ANDERSON-BOGERT ENGINEERS AND SURVEYORS, INC.
TO PROVIDE ENGINEERING CONSULTANT SERVICES FOR THE
GILBERT/PRENTISS/BOWERY INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENT
PROJECT.
Lehman: I have a question for Jeff on Item 13, that is the engineering for the Gilbert
Street/Highway 6 intersection project.
Davidson: No, that's the Gilbert, Bowery, Prentiss intersection.
Lehman: I don't have a question for you at all...in fact, I really like that.
Davidson: Okay.
Lehman: If I had read more carefully. Other agenda items?
ITEM # 9 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3 ENTITLED "CITY
FINANCES, TAXATION & FEES," CHAPTER 4, "SCHEDULE OF FEES,
RATES, CHARGES, BONDS, FINES, AND PENALTIES" SECTION 7,
"PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION" TO INCLUDE SPECIAL FARES,
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SPECIAL PASSES AND CHARGES FOR BICYCLE LOCKERS. (FIRST
CONSIDERATION)
Atkins: Anything on the transit fees? Ron is here.
Champion: I thought they looked good.
ITEM # 15 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE APPOINTMENT OF
SAMUEL E. I-IARGADINE AS POLICE CHIEF IN IOWA CITY, IA.
Bailey: No, they looked good. Now, am I clear that Sam Hargad~ne won t b here
tomorrow for any kind of questions?
Atkins: No, he won't.
Champion: Are we still on Council Time?
Lehman: Yeah, whatever you say, kid.
Champion: Well, I just wanted to bring up the cute little building on Gilbert and...
Bailey: College. Your favorite building.
Vanderhoef: You mean the bus station? Her cute little gas station...
Champion: I'm not the only one that thinks it's a really neat building. That's all I wanted to
say.
Bailey: I do.
Champion: My kids thought it was. I could really be an adorable cafe.
Vanderhoef: Why don't we lift it up and take it down to Safety Village?
Champion: I don't think so.
Lehman: Why don't we just very safely remove it?
Champion: You're going to have a hard time getting me to do that.
Lehman: Well, if we do it at five in the morning and you don't get down until ten, it will be
gone.
Champion: What are our plans with that building?
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August 1, 2005 City Council Work Session Page 50 of 53
Atkins: There are no plans. Karin and a couple of staff members have done some
knocking around of ideas. We were going to bring it back to you as a discussion
topic. Quite frankly to hear what you had to say and hear what you think about it.
Bailey: When?
Atkins: Well, I was going to tell you under my time that I need to have you...
Elliott: I don't give a hang.
Bailey: You don't care about that property?
Elliott: You can doze it down for all I care.
Champion: That's terrible.
Elliott: It's an old gas station.
Lehman: Is there anything else for the good of the cause?
SCHEDULE OF FUTURE PENDING ITEMS
Elliott: Are we talking about pending items? Sometime I would like to talk about bus
routes, bus schedules, and some innovation. I wonder if there isn't something we
can do about some routes. Can we have some contracts with taxi-cab companies,
let's just talk about that some time. I'm concerned about sidewalk repair fairness,
I continue to be concerned that we require some people to repair the sidewalks on
their properties while other properties don't have sidewalks. I'd like to talk about
the make-up of commissions at some point and I'd like to talk about the
possibility if we have alleys - let's have them all be private alleys. So, those are
my...
Lehman: Let's just handle these. Which ones do we want...
Bailey: We should talk about transit...where is that JARC application? Can we also
involve that in that discussion?
Davidson: We sure could. That's kind ora separate thing, but the JARC application is to
being some new service for...it's typically oriented to second shift. You can get
to work but you can't get home...and first shift you can't get there but you can get
home. We've just started that process. It will take us a few months but we intend
to do it probably in the next three or four months.
Elliott: Just so it's sometime because as we are expanding outward, I think we need to
look at the whole concept of our transit system, how much can we spend on it,
what can we do about it.
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August 1, 2005 City Council Work Session Page 51 of 53
Davidson: If Council is willing to adopt some policy ground rules, that's an excellent
discussion to have, Bob, but in the in the past, that has been difficult to do. When
I say past, over the last ten or fifteen years, it's difficult to discuss those nuts and
bolts things unless there's that initial policy. For example, Bob, we've had a
couple of discussions with Council oriented to let's increase service on the routes
that are more productive and each time that Council has decided 'No, we want a
blanket service over the whole City, some routes perform well, some don't' - but
that's been the policy direction basically.
Elliott: I think it needs to be discussed because I think we are coming to a time where we
can no longer afford...I don't know what...somewhere between two and three
million dollars a year that we're putting into it...and we can no longer afford to
do some routes...
Dilkes: If the Council wants to talk about this, let's get it on an agenda.
Champion: I would like to talk about it.
Bailey: I would like to talk about it, but I would like to talk about when we have the
opportunity to talk about the JARC project as well.
Davidson: We can do that.
Lehman: What Eleanor is talking about is 'Don't talk about it tonight.' Now, Bob, your
question on the sidewalk, why don't you check with Housing and Inspection
Services. My guess is that you'll find the answer to your question.
Elliott: That's a philosophy, it's not an ordinance. Why would we request that sidewalks
be repaired when we don't demand that all properties have sidewalks?
Davidson: The sidewalk repair program splits the City up into ten districts. Every ten years
is when you have to have your sidewalk repaired in that district.
Dilkes: No, the question of whether you continue to have your sidewalk repair program
would clearly be a Council question. If Council wants to discuss that, then it
needs to go on the agenda. If you have questions about what we currently do,
then you should talk to Kim Johnson.
Elliott: I know. I would be interested in talking about the make up of commissions.
Bailey: I indicated that I was interested in discussing that as well as when this Youth
Advisory Commission is ready for presentation. I think we should talk about
these all together.
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August 1, 2005 City Council Work Session Page 52 of 53
Karr: Could I clarify something, just for my own piece? We have attached to Work
Session minutes a list of pending items. What we, as staff, had thought by adding
it to the agenda was not that you would, with all due respect, continue to add to
them, but you certainly may, but you would prioritize them for us and we would
schedule them accordingly. Transit Discussion is on the list, Board and
Commission Make Up is on the list.
Elliott: I think it we put it some place on the agenda, perhaps, other than at the end, we
might be able to prioritize and set some dates.
Karr: Okay, this is the chicken and the egg. I add them to the list, you prioritize them.
You tell us when you want them.
Lehman: We need to put dates on these items otherwise they never get off of the pending
list.
Atkins: Tell you what, send it back to me, I'll put dates, bring it back to you, and then you
can have something to discuss.
Lehman: I would have no problem with that.
Elliott: You'll make the assignments and if we don't like it then we'll scream. Great.
Vanderhoef: I have something to add...
Lehman: Wait, hold it...we have a couple of things to add even though we aren't adding
tonight.
Vanderhoef: We aren't?
Lehman: No, but go ahead.
Vanderhoefi Okay...
Lehman: Quick.
Vanderhoef: Real quick...workforce development and...aaahh...the Economic Development
Committee is talking about wi-fi. I would like to be educated on wi-fi also and if
Gary Cohn is going to put together a presentation, I would like to hear that as a
whole group so that if in our thinking for budget times and see how that works in
there and so...workforce development, I saw several questions that Bob had that
are easily answered by Dee Baird, Kim Johnson, and Joe Raso about all of the
sites and so forth that are available and how you access on line and so forth and !
think a presentation to the entire council would be appropriate there to.
Atkins: Okay, I'll take care of those. Good night, all.
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August 1, 2005 City Council Work Session Page 53 of 53
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the August 1, 2005 Iowa City Council Work Session.