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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-03-29 TranscriptionMarch 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 1 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session 5:00 p.m. Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thornberry, Vanderhoef Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Davidson, Kugler, Rockwell, Miklo, Yapp, Schmadeke, Fosse, O'Neil Tapes: 99-33, Side 2, 99-37, all; 99-38 Side 1 A complete transcfiption is available in the City Clerk's office. Update on Mondo Fire 99-33 S2 Atkins/I wanted to give you council a quick heads up, I just got off the phone with Andy Rocca, and Andy engineers are crawling all over the. woman/The rubble, the old Iowa Savings. Atkins/The old Iowa Savings. Evidently that wall between Mondo's and the bank is a common wall, it has deteriorated to the point where we're going to have to get all the people out of that building. Lehman/Oh. Thomberry/Oh god. Atkins/So fight now we have some very upset business that we're moving em, we're telling them you've got to get out. We'll probably have to block off the portion of the street, because the wall is evidently, as you think it, everybody's out of the hole now, until we can kind of figure out what to do, but again your going to hear from some businesses that are not happy. I'll defer to Andy's judgment. Champion/What will be a (can't hear)? Atkins/That bank building whatever it used to be called. United Federal. Lehman/That would be the entire building. Atkins/The entire building, that wall evidently between Mondo's is a common wall and of course fire wall and of course the damage. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2 Vanderhoef/Was the fire wall damaged? Atkins/No, it was a common wall. Kubby/Was it, a fire wall. Atkins/It was a fire wall, but this common wall between the two buildings and. Champion/Was it five business that counter wall (can't hear). Atkins/So a lot of protected property on the other side of it evidently the building is not is Andy's very concerned about it. Kubby/So there will be plan's to reinforce that, take responsibility (can't hear). Atkins/I have no idea, I just got off the phone a couple minutes ago, we'll leave it to Andy, he'll figure out what to do. Lehman/Well I'm sure it's going to require structural engineer to come in and look at it. Atkins/He has an engineer with him now, that's been going through the building. But again property owners are going to be rather upset. We'll work with them to get in and get their stuff out. (can't hear). Lehman/OK. Thanks Steve. OK Karin. Northeast District Plan 6e. Plan hearing on a resolution adopting and incorporating the Northeast District Plan into the Iowa City Comprehensive Plan. Franklin/OK, we're going to present this plan to you this evening in quite a bit of detail so that you have a very solid background in it. Bob Miklo, Senior Planner of the Urban Planning Staff and Melody Rockwell, John Yapp and Scott Kugler are going to do the presentation. I would ask that you kind of hold your comments and questions until they're done with the whole thing because you need to hear the whole thing to get a sense of that. So I'll leave it to them, Bob. Miklo/ t~efore we get started, I'd llke to put the Northeast District and the context of the larger comprehensive plan. The current comprehensive planning process began in 1994 when we did the Iowa City beyond 2000, where all of these documents. This was the work of nine citizen task forces that had 81 volunteers, they came together over that summer, in fact some of the council members were participants in that process to create a vision of what they saw the future of Iowa City should This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 3 be. This vision emphasized diverse, healthy, attractive neighborhoods as the building blocks for Iowa City. This was the basis of our 1997 comprehensive plan which was adopted in December of that year. In fact there's a chapter about neighborhood as building blocks for Iowa City in this plan. This process is somewhat of a change from the way we used to do comprehensive planning. Used to be the Planning and Zoning Commission and staff basically wrote the plan and then the council approved it, although we tried to get public paaicipation, we had public hearings, there really wasn't that much interest in the planning process. It was the council in the early 90's that said they wanted us to increase the amount of citizen paaicipation in the planning process. With the completion of the task force work the citizen paaicipation doesn't end, what we've been doing is bring it to another level in the 10 district plans. The comprehensive plan identifies 10 areas as you recall, you already have a plan in place for the south district. There's a draft that's complete for the south-central district and that's at the planning and zoning level right now. They've been waiting on a study for arterial street costs and the river and that's why they haven't come before you yet. And of course we are right now in the process of the noaheast district. With all of these districts we plan to work with residents, property owners, developers, and invite groups such as the Homebuilders, Chamber, Environmental Advocates, anybody who might have an interest in these neighborhoods we've invited them to participate in the planning process and in the series of workshops that we've held within the neighborhoods. With these workshops we've gotten quite a bit of input from the citizens as to what they want to see in their neighborhoods and we've tried to adopt that into the plans themselves. Melody Rockwell was instrumental in setting up the meetings and working with groups to get them involved. I'll turn it over to Melody. Rockwell/Well as Bob indicated over the past few years the city has increasingly involved citizens in hands on planning for the development of new neighborhoods. The Noaheast District Planning process is no exception, over 100 people participated in the Northeast District Planning workshops that were held a year ago in March and April. These paaicipants did move beyond that one issue of whether First Avenue should be extended or not. And they begin planning for a comprehensive vision and guiding principles for four new neighborhoods in the Northeast District. These include Bluffwood, Hunter Heights, Pheasant Hill and Lindeman Hills. As we highlight the guiding principles and how they might be implemented in the four neighborhoods you might want to look at the map and scan the text to see how these principles have been incorporated into the proposed plan and you will find in the plan itself on pages 8-10 those guiding principles and some ways of implementing those principles. The first principle is to preserve natural features. The citizen planning teams were adamant from the outset that they wanted to preserve the natural beauty of the Noaheast District, they wanted This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4 to protect natural features, wooded ravines, stream corridors, and wetlands. And to this end the plan for providing green open space or buffers between urban development and sensitivity features such as woodlands, wetlands and creeks and also between urban development and Hickory Hill park. The second principle was to provide pedestrian and bicyclist connections. And the plan provides for a network of wide accessible sidewalks and trails throughout the district. The third principle was to build streets that enhance neighborhood quality. The citizens in the workshops wanted a plan that would advocate a neighborhood street design that fostered reasonable traffic levels, calming traffic and providing landscape bumpers along major roadways. A fourth principle was to encourage a reasonable level of housing diversity. We understand that the predominant land use throughout the district will be detached single family housing, but the plan does integrate a mix of housing types throughout the district by locating townhouses and small apartment houses in and adjacent to neighborhood commercial areas at intersections of arterial and collector streets, along arterial streets and near institutional facilities and parks. It avoids large concentrations of apartments. These create an upgrade neighborhood parks by planning neighborhood parks and designing them to be in association with trails, schools and neighborhood commercial centers, waterways, and wooded areas. And sixth to plan for commercial areas that function as neighborhood centers. These would be neighborhood commercial areas that have a main street or town square design that include green space within that neighborhood center and also incorporate public services such as fire station, or day care, or a civic space within that commercial center. So now we have the six guiding principles that emerged from those planning workshops and these are consistent with the overall comprehensive plan that was adopted in 1997. They're to be used as a framework for neighborhood development in the district. The citizen planning teams also recommended some specific ideas which were included in the district plan. One was the alignment of Scott Boulevard as it extends from where it exists here to and across Rochester to come up north and follow the ridge line, not go through wooded ravines. Another outcome from citizen planning workshops was the t-intersection design to promote the flow of traffic along Scott Boulevard. Third was the reservoir park area that was proposed here on the east side of Scott Boulevard. Green Square was recommended as the focal point for the Lindeman Hills neighborhood. A group suggested that a arboretum along interstate 80 would be a good way to have a visual buffer and sound buffer along that interstate from residential areas to the south and west. And finally although there were a number of specific ideas, another idea that came out at the workshops was to have a park offset a road in the interior of the neighborhood. And this prevents traffic from shooting straight the neighborhood but breaks it up a little so that there's kind of a traffic calming by using a park. Now John Yapp will discuss neighborhood develop in the context of the street framework and community connections. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 5 John Yapp/Thank you Melody. Specifically, I'm going to talk about the arterial street system in the Northeast District, something that we got a lot of discussion during the planing process. At the beginning of this process when we first met with the citizen workshop groups, we presented arterial streets as forming the framework of the neighborhood. This is due to many of these streets already existing just orient you, Court Street on the South, Rochester Avenue, and Herbert Hoover Highway in the central part of the district. The First Avenue on the west side of the district, Taft Avenue which will become an arterial street in the future on the east side of the district and Scott Boulevard running north-south through the central part of the district. Arterial streets have two major functions in the city, number 1 they convey traffic between neighborhoods and between different parts of the city minimizing the chance that that traffic will cut through neighborhoods, we encourage it to stay on the arterial street system. Number two they insure that the developing neighborhoods have access to city services that use arterial streets, like fire and police protection, bus service, garbage collection, etc. To focus in on this Bluffwood neighborhood because it did receive the most discussion most workshop groups and the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended that Scott Boulevard be extended along the ridge line in this neighborhood minimizing some of the environmental degradation that can result if the street cut over wooded ravines and also they recommended that First Avenue be extended to Scott Boulevard to provide this arterial street connection. To discuss First Avenue, it is true that if First Avenue is extended and connected, there will be more traffic in this area. But at the same time it results in a more balanced arterial street system citywide. And staff and the planning and zoning commission did recommend unanimously that First Avenue be extended. It allows circulating traffic to be disbursed rather than concentrated, fewer arterial streets. For that reason Planning and Zoning Commission also recommended constructing Scott Boulevard at the same time as First Avenue to achieve this more balanced system without concentrating the traffic on one or the other street. It also allows more direct routes for traffic as this next slide shows. This is an illustration of possible traffic patterns if First Avenue were not constructed. The large blue dots are destination points along the First Avenue corridor such as NCS, ACT, Regina and City High schools, the Towncrest commercial, and this area, and also employment and retail centers, like Sycamore Mall, Oral-B, Proctor and Gamble, etc. If First Avenue were not connected traffic between these destination points would be using Dodge Street and Governor Street and then filtering back through the neighborhoods to the First Avenue corridor or if just Scott Boulevard were constructed, it would be using Scott Boulevard corridor and then filtering back through to the west to reach these destinations. With the First Avenue connection, traffic can have a much more direct route and minimize some of this traffic that filters through the neighborhoods to these destination points. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 6 So in short it allows traffic to be disbursed while not constructing it would force traffic onto fewer arterial streets and looking east Iowa City as a whole the planning and zoning commission did recommend that it be connected. Now Scott Kugler will talk about some more specific planning elements of the plan. Scott Kugler/Before I get into the specifics of the Northeast District Plan I'd like to step back and just go over some of the basic neighborhood design concepts that were discussed at the planning workshops last spring. This slide illustrates a fairly conventional subdivision design as we've come to know them over the last few decades. Some of the basic characteristics of this concept include the splitting of all or most of the property into private ownership. There's little left in terms of any public space other than the streets themselves that provide access to each of the residential lots. Another characteristic would be limited access to adjacent properties, there's a preference for a cul de sac street design which limits connections and circulation's within neighborhoods as these areas develop over time. A number of criticisms have been leveled against this type of development, one being they are very land consumptive and help contribute to urban sprawl. They result in a fairly inefficient development pattern. It becomes very difficult to provide public services to developments such as this in any kind of efficient way due to the limited connections between parts of a neighborhood and their often not very environmental friendly. That's not to say that there aren't some fine homes in these neighborhoods and these aren't nice places to live, but the plan suggest we can do better in building our new neighborhoods in the future. One of the models proposed in the plan is the use of the traditional neighborhood design concept and this slide illustrates that concept, it makes use of a grid or a modified grid street pattern to provide multiple connections for bicyclists, pedestrians, and vehicles throughout the neighborhood. It involves the reservation of public spaces within the neighborhood as amenities, open spaces amenities within a development. And more attention is generally paid to the appearances of these public spaces and to the public streets. Basically this concept is about building neighborhoods rather than developing home sites. Particularly where higher densities are being proposed, this concept would make use of the idea of alleys or rear lanes to help provide some of the utilitarian functions associated with residential development such as vehicular access, some utilities, and some public services. And by doing this, and removing these elements from the streetscape, a more attractive streetscape appearance can be the result. Now there's been a lot of talk about garage doors lately and whether they should be located at the front's of the buildings or at the rear of the buildings or they should be set back. And we want to point out that the plan doesn't say we can't have garage doors in the front of properties, in fact where standards residential plots are being platted or larger residential lots are being platted the garage really doesn't have a big impact because more of the house can be brought This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 7 up the streetscape and the appearance from the street is a residential one and the garage is subsidiary. However, where higher densities are being proposed, it does become a critical issue, and here you can how the front yard paving and the garage doors dominate the streetscape. And this is what your traditional neighborhood design use of the alley's is trying to avoid. Obviously in some area of the Northeast District this concept won't work due to environmental features and topography and for those areas the plan recommends the use of the conservation subdivision design and this is about setting aside environmentally sensitive areas and other open space areas that is commonly held ground for shared used, clustering residential development on smaller lots in the more appropriate areas on a property to be developed and preserving the environmentally sensitive areas as amenities rather than hiding them in backyards or consuming them to the individual lots. This is a slide from a development in Illinois that has made use of this concept to help protect some wetlands and create some prairie areas and has been quite successful. Now moving into the specifics into the Northeast District Plan, start first with the Bluffwood neighborhood, this area is characterized by fairly rough topography, there are a number of wooded ravines, streamed corridor's, and even some potential wetland areas to deal with. This slide gives you some idea of what this portion of the neighborhood is like. Because of these sensitive features the plan recommends the use of the conservation subdivision design as a model for most of the area. This slide illustrates how that model can work, you can see the wooded ravine and stream corridor being set aside in this location as well as here and the residential development being limited to the ridge tops where it's more appropriate perhaps some higher densities along the arterial streets in exchange for setting aside some of these environmentally sensitive areas and protecting them. This slide also illustrates the Hickory Hill buffer that Melody mentioned. The plan attempts to show a reasonable amount of development on this property perhaps transferring some of the density again to First Avenue or Captain Irish Parkway, or Scott Boulevard. Yet providing a reasonable buffer for the park. The plan talks about the development on this property trying to minimize it's visibility from the park and leaves open the possibility of the public or private purchase of a larger buffer to help protect the park in this area. This slide also illustrates the single loaded street, which would help to demarcate the division between the residential development and this buffer area in Hickory Hill park basically instead of having homes back up on the park we would have homes on the other side overlooking the park leaving this area open for pubic view and rather than hiding it in backyards of properties there and this slide kind of illustrates how a development like that might look. I'd like to point out that there are a couple of local examples of single loaded streets. A few that you would recognize would be Rocky Shore Drive, Teg Drive where we do have residential development on one side and an open space or the Iowa River or some environmental feature on the other side. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 This concept is also suggested along the stream corridors here we see Ralston Creek with generally the 100 year flood plain being preserved as an actual buffer either held by the city, dedicated to the city or held in common ownership. What we're trying to avoid is having those environmental features be a nuisance and rear yards of residential properties abutting them. Terms of the street system, what is proposed in the Northeast District Plan is an interconnected street system for the Bluffwood neighborhood to the extent possible, obviously we have to work around the topography and environmental features that exist there. At the same time although there are a lot of connections through the neighborhood, the street system is designed such that there are a lot of street offsets or traffic calming measures to avoid creating easy cut through routes through the neighborhoods and encouraging through traffic to stay on the arterial streets. A couple of major parks are proposed in this district as well as some small open spaces such that no residential property would be no more than a few blocks from some type of open space. There is a neighborhood commercial zone proposed in this location to help serve the residents of this area and housing is predominantly shown as single family residential although small apartments and townhouses are integrated into the neighborhood around the neighborhood commercial center along arterial streets and adjacent to some major open spaces within the neighborhood. Now moving onto the Lindeman Hills neighborhood, which is down in this area. This area is much different in character than Bluffwood, it's more rolling in topography, mainly agricultural properties and the main environmental features are stream corridors that mn through the agricultural lands. The Northeast District Plan shows one way that attritional neighborhoods development could occur, it has a very interconnected modified grid, street system, which is focused on a town square, in the center of the neighborhood. This town square would also serve as a traffic calming device for Lower West Branch Road which is a through street through this area right now. There are other examples of this type of residential square, again this is from Illinois a very successful development that has been designed around a square such as this and the plan contains a sketch of what this area might look like after it's developed with some higher density housing around the square, surrounded by some single family development. As in the Bluffwood neighborhood small parks and open space areas are suggested scattered throughout the neighborhoods to provide good access to these amenities for future residents of this area. Higher density housing is generally clustered around the square around arterial streets near some major open spaces. There's a neighborhood commercial center being proposed at the comer of Herbert Hoover Highway and Scott Boulevard, the plan contains a sketch of how that might appear if that were developed based on a main street type design with parking behind the buildings perhaps residential or office uses up above the commercial uses. And a good pedestrian orientation to help integrate it into the neighborhood. There are some historic and archeological resources that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 9 will need to be dealt with. This slide illustrates the evidence of an old railroad bridge that is still present in the neighborhood and there are a number of historic farm homes that should be evaluated for historic landmark potential as this area is developed. This home happens to be located within the Hunter Heights neighborhood which we'll move into now. The plan does not contain a lot of detail for the development of this neighborhood. However, the topography there kind of dictates what should happen. The northern portion of this sight is generally flat and a lot of designing flexibility in designing a development there. However, at the southern end there is a lot more topography in the conservation subdivision design would be a good model for that area. And lastly the Pheasant Hill neighborhood which is almost fully developed, there are a couple of development parcels remaining and the plan suggests some street scenarios and open space reservations for those areas. A couple other recommendations contained in the plan for this area include the sidewalk system for this area. There are some gaps particularly along existing arterial streets that should be filled. And Washington Street which was built with a very wide pavement with plan suggest that perhaps some traffic calming devices or other means of either narrowing this street or providing some greenery within the street right of way to help not only to deter vehicle speeds but also try to minimize appearance of that roadway is fairly wide right now. That is a summary of the Northeast District Plan, Melody has a few more comments before we take some questions. Rockwell/I'll be brief. As you can see this plan weaves together quite a number of valued elements to create a guide to develop four livable neighborhoods in the Noaheast District. One advantage of having such a plan is the ability to move away from ad hoc responses to development proposals. To measure each project against the guidelines provided by the plan. And I want to reiterate these are guidelines, their not inflexible, the plan that we have is a little more detailed that the colored blocks that you have seen before for district plans. It goes into more detail but it's the pattern that is shown. For example in the Lindeman Hills area it shows a pattern of connected streets. If someone came in with a proposal in this area that showed connected streets, not cul de sac's, would be consisted with the plan, if it's adopted in this way. If someone came in and showed quite a number of cul de sac's in this area then that would not be consistent with the plan, it's more the pattern that's being shown and the concepts, the guiding principles that need to be adhered to. Not that every line on the plan needs to be followed inflexibly. Secondly, we have found that citizen involvement from the beginning in making (can't hear) decisions in their own neighborhoods make a difference. It makes a difference in seeing that the plan is actually implemented. This is one comprehensive plan that we found doesn't stay on a shelf. It does not collect dust, we are into several reprinting's for the South District Plan. And although the South-central Plan has not been adopted, we're into several reprinting's for This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 10 that as well. So I would like to invite you to observe the North District Plan workshops which we are anticipating will be this Fall. We think it's an exciting process to see unfold and we are available now to answer questions about the Noaheast District Plan. Champion/I'm really impressed with the plan, also impressed with the people the community seem to want a lot of the same concepts that we've discussed the peninsula. O'Donnell/Pretty similar. Champion/It's pretty interesting that there are common goals among everybody (can't hear) addressed now by developers. Kubby/I have a question for you John. We've talked a little bit about what street volumes would be south of Rochester with or without First Avenue would be affected. Could you go into a little more detail about that. Yapp/Sure, and I might defer to Jeff about some of these volumes. Right now First Avenue is south of Rochester is 6,000 to 8,000 vehicles a day depending on the exact location. With First Avenue being connected and this is a prediction, that would increase by about 4,000 vehicles to 10 - 12,000 vehicles per day. Which would reduce the Noah Dodge Volume by about 3,000 vehicles a day, currently Noah Dodge is 11,000 to 14,000. That would be reduced by about 3,000 with the extension. That's similar that 10-12,000 on First Avenue with it being connected is similar to the traffic volume on Kirkwood Avenue which is also a two-lane arterial street with residential on both sides so that's to give you an idea of what that volume is. Kubby/So with that volume of 10-12 so would we need to anticipate of capital improvement projects south of Rochester? Yapp/What the plan recommends is #1 sidewalks, there's on the west side of First Avenue there are no sidewalks for a long stretch. It's my understanding that a number of years ago the council made a decision not to add anymore lanes to First Avenue noah of where the work was recently done near HyVee, so the improvements we would be looking at would be like turning lanes at intersections. Perhaps a signalization at certain intersections like First and Court. But those kinds of things. Champion/Are they going to make a plan for First Avenue to be a four-lane? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 11 Yapp/Not currently, no. Thomberry/The number with First Avenue not extended 6-8,000 current (can't hear). Yapp/Right, south of Rochester. Thornberry/South of Rochester, and what is it with it extended? Yapp/10-12,000. Thornberry/10-12,000, how far and that's a guess. Yapp/That's a prediction. Thornberry/At certain times of the day it would be more. Yapp/That's the. Thornberry/That's the total volume. Now how far south are you talking about? Yapp/That would be Rochester to Muscatine, is my understanding. Thornberry/How many turn off at Court Street? Yapp/I couldn't tell you that? Thornberry/What I'm saying is how can you be so specific when it's not done, and this is the best guess scenario, I understand that. But you can make statistics whatever you want when it's not done. I mean you can measure when it's done, but it's just a guess, I'll bet. Miklo/The numbers that. Thornberry/Professional guess, scientific guess but I'll bet. Miklo/And it's a range. Thornberry/It is a range. Miklo/It's a little bit more than a guess Dean and that as you know we do have the traffic model that is where these numbers came from. The specific segment that was measured that reflects the numbers that John gave you was between Rochester and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 12 Washington Streets. That was the link that those numbers come from. Washington and Rochester. Thomberry/OK. Miklo/ And I think what your going to see in the future is that the same pattern of traffic bind that we have now will continue on First Avenue. And that is in the commercial areas the smaller commercial area up by Rochester, the larger commercial area down by Muscatine the volumes are much higher. In the residential area in between the volumes go down. Because the tuming movements also go down considerably in the residential part, we do not see any imperative for there to be additional lanes on First Avenue, with the exception of that Court Street intersection and that's the one there may need to be some turning lanes. Norton/What do you say about the economics of this development? Some people, for example are arguing that the single-loaded streets are expensive, even though I agree with you we did take side, to keep Willow Creek Park, emphasize value of say College Hill Park, that can be seen by everybody on the block square. It's there so everybody, somebody you can get rather expensive, the buffering of Hickory Hill runs expensive and how are we going to deal with those issues? Miklo/Well we don't have any big figures or numbers, we do propose traffic of density, so this area that normally would have housing in it what we're saying is increase the density along First Avenue so that you have the same number of units but there in townhouses and apartments or some smaller lots along in there versus up against the park and in terms of the single-loaded street acting as a buffer for a park, that was something that I would say there was a lot of interest in the neighborhood participation process to provide a buffer for the park so that it's going to cost something. Norton/City pay (can't hear). Miklo/And you have to ask is that is it worth it, it seems like the community was saying yes something that we want to see. Norton/But is that how it works on Teg Drive for example, that those houses on one side didn't carry the whole weight of the. I think the city has to pay for half the street, isn't that correct? Miklo/I'm not sure about the specifics on Teg. Karen might. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 13 Champion/Well you can consider First (can't hear). Norton/I'm just confident that city has to pay for something. Franklin/I don't know exactly how Teg Drive was paid for. But if you look in that whole area and how it was developed there was a similar kind of density transfer where as you go down Teg over to Aber, the density increases. Now that whole area at one time was owned by I think it was a Yoder partnership, Earl Yoder with others, and they did a number of subdivisions, the Bryn Mawr subdivisions. And presumably by doing that density transfer, getting the higher units there on Aber there able to pay for the costs of that road. Now that involved over time, because as you know Teg and Aber weren't connected for a long time. Norton/But certainly for an alternative would be for the city to invest more in the street that what would normally be the case. Franklin/Certainly, that could be one way to do it. Norton/Developers and that, the city might have to swallow that. Franklin/You could do it 50/50. Thornberry/But along with that, with these questions, with these houses along here being a higher density along First Avenue, would there be any, would you be able to get to this housing right here from First Avenue or would you have to go back here and come in the back way. Would there be anymore driveways offof First Avenue? Franklin/We'd want to minimize the driveway certainly off of First Avenue as this is laid out, access could come from either of those side streets that are coming off of First Avenue and then you go in behind. But remember that all of this because it is more detailed than we have ever done before, it's a concept, it's an idea, that you have the higher density along First Avenue. As we get down to somebody coming in, a private development plan, we then look at that in the context of these concepts of the ideas and the actual execution of it would be worked out as we go through that process of approval of rezoning and subdivision platting and all of that. Kubby/That would be like Scott Boulevard where you've got those townhouses but they don't get onto Scott. Franklin/Precisely, precisely. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 14 Kubby/Scott function. Franklin/Yes, Yes, and it all as your looking at those townhouses too, that's a good example, because as your driving down Scott Boulevard what you see are the front' s of the townhouses. Kubby/You can't see the garages. Franklin/Right. Now from the back it's not exactly appealing but it's got to be somewhere. Thornberry/How do you get to these along here? Franklin/Well presumably you would, now that has a little road shown in there as a concept of a different way to handle it, yes. Champion/It wouldn't have to be that way? Franklin/No, it wouldn't have to be, but the idea is you've got two principles here, one is that your going to minimize the number of drives and access points to First Avenue to preserve the integrity of that arterial. And the other is that your going to have higher density along there so you've got to get to it somehow but your going to do it with fewer driveways so maybe that loop is a concept that you can use, or maybe your coming off of a side street and maybe it's not that high density or higher density along the whole west side of First Avenue, you may have that higher density worked into the rest of the development. But in that whole space you can have that variety of housing to get the density to enable you to set aside those natural areas. O'Donnell/Do you have a project traffic count for Scott Boulevard and Captain Irish when it's completed? J. Davidson/Are you talking Mike with or without First Avenue and Captain Irish extended? O'Donnell/I'm talking if we extend First Avenue and do Captain Irish? Davidson/OK. O'Donnell/It seems to me like that would reduce this 10-12,000 vehicles per day on First Avenue with the completion of Captain Irish. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 15 Davidson/Yes, that's correct if you connect either First Avenue and/or Captain Irish Parkway you will. Oh, I'm sorry you were reducing the number on First Avenue? OK. O'Donnell/(can't hear) Davidson/OK, fight, if you connect both you will reduce it over just connecting First Avenue. (All talking). Norton/Scott and First was the number (can't hear). Thornberry/It stands to reason to take off First to Scott. Davidson/If you connected both it was 12,000. Thornberry/Pardon. Davidson/That was the 10-12. Thornberry/That's with Captain Irish connected to Scott Boulevard. Davidson/Yes. Norton/It still goes up, yea. Champion/Well but you've got to remember that 20 years ago when that land, what direction is that? Kubby/East. Champion/East of their developed, was going to prevent future use of First Avenue (can' t hear). Thomberry/Will First Avenue from Rochester to wherever, Lower Muscatine be able to handle the additional traffic to 10-127 Davidson/Well Dean you will recall the discussions we had when you improved the two segments we did by now it would be three and four years ago, OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 16 Thornberry/Right. Davidson/And when we had those discussions we compromised on the amount of traffic capacity that we put in on those streets, we said it will be better than it was, but it won't be as good as it would have if you had gone with a wider process. Thornberry/With what Dee Vanderhoef suggested. Davidson/Right. And so we certainly would not want to indicate that there would be no congestion on those still because we have predicted some congestion. But we do feel that they are the corridor magnitude of other streets in Iowa City that yes, they can tolerate the traffic that is projected. Kubby/Will it still be at a C-level? Thornberry/Yea, what I'm saying, yea, that's exactly what... Davidson/No it will not be at a C-level and when you made your decisions on the three- leg cross section versus four or five we indicated that we would be below C. Kubby/So where will we be if we do First Avenue and we do Captain Irish, I mean will we be at C, E, F? Davidson/The traffic forecast well we don't know exactly Karen, but the traffic forecast that we made for those parts down by the new HyVee assumed the extension of First Avenue. Kubby/And I suppose it matters if we do do those turn lanes on Court if we do a traffic signal. Davidson/Well sure it does because your intersections. Kubby/South congested for five or 10 minutes. Davidson/And your intersections are the places where you really have the congestion, I mean that'g where you have conflicting movements. If you can get your intersections working if you can get Muscatine first, and then if you can get Court and First working and then your whole your whole segment will work. Norton/May I ask what the difference in the distance from Highway 1 on Captain Irish/Scott but if your city' s kind of high noah loop there, the pay on that slanted This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 17 version that I think the citizens group proposed and to me makes sense that it's a bit shorter and more attractive route, it doesn't go back quite so back Noah. Davidson/Yea we haven't scaled off exactly what the difference is Dee but I think we all know that the more, if you made an absolute direct straight line it would be even that much more efficient than a traffic carrying perspective. What the cities alignment that you saw the presentation on tried to reflect was a little bit more environmentally sensitive way of building the street as opposed to the additional earth work that would needed to be done with the other altemative. Norton/What about the next ridge over, drag your arrow along that other ridge. (can't hear). Yapp/Well it's about like that. The other reason this more northerly ridge was chosen rather than ridge here, the closer this street gets to First Avenue and Rochester the more attractive the neighborhood becomes as a cut-through route by keeping it further out here there's very little chance someone would take the time to cut through the neighborhood to get over to First Avenue. That was one of the reasons, also to provide more of a neighborhood within that arterial street framework. Norton/Looks like you keep taking it over too far and I guess, I understand (can't hear). Yapp/We looked at the topography and. Davidson/Well you can see between the two ravines where the ridge is. Vanderhoeff I'm looking this in a different fashion and I see that we have not even addressed Hunter Heights. And when I listened to Scott telling us about the north area of Hunter Heights being the flatter land and you move south closer to Rochester and you're getting more rolling land. But you haven't put anything in there that addresses the future development of that area and the number of people that are going to be moving in and around this city. When I see us putting an arterial of Captain Irish and we are connecting basically the one mile but we're not addressing the second mile along over to Taft Boulevard which actually ends up at the golf course. I think we're forcing traffic down to Rochester for all future growth area we're not getting any way to remove that traffic off of Rochester. The other thing that we're doing is that we're forcing the traffic westward rather than continuing with our noah-south arterial of Scott Boulevard that is planned to go up the interstate which we. (End of Tape 99-33 side 2) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 18 Vanderhoef/We on the southem route and we don't even these maps but I'm looking at the big picture guys and we're putting in a east-west parkway south of Highway 6 that's going to go over to Taft (can't hear). Now somehow or another we need to have this arterial thing look like it is serving all of the east side of Iowa City not just the Bluffwood neighborhood. I think we can serve the Bluffwood neighborhood very well with this first piece of Captain Irish but I still think would like to see that in keys in, it stays on this noahern rock which stays noah of the two ravine, it also stays noah of that ravine that is directly to the east of the dark green one that your showing up there. It stays up on the high land then as you cross over into the Hunter Heights area and can take in another full mile when that becomes necessary. Kubby/Maybe the first question is What are the plans for arterial west of or east of, I'm sorry? Vanderhoef/But we've got basically a grid of three miles, we've got Taft, it's another mile over to Scott, it's another mile over to First and I'm not real clear on what is over to Dodge cause of the angle of Dodge. But we know that we've got a whole noah section there and the only east-west aaerial that we're talking about that' s taking care of all that area is Rochester. Now you talk about running traffic past school, and into older neighborhoods, you force all that traffic down on Rochester and don't allow the Captain Irish to go on east. I think we're creating a bigger problem that what we think we might be doing. Davidson/Dee, this is Rochester here, is that correct? And the interstate comes down here. Vanderhoef/Right, so we've got a full miles. Davidson/So we're saying is this is Scott Boulevard here. Kubby/That's Taft. Davidson/That' s Taft, and that's Scott. So your saying to get Captain Irish somewhere going through this way. Vanderhoef/Go faaher noah. Where it's the high. Yep. Davidson/This, going this way. Vanderhoef/And then on down and come over. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 19 Davidson/Paralleling the interstate? Vanderhoef/Have it moved down so that it comes down to Rochester over at TaR which is where going to be swinging more traffic. Traffic of Taft is going to become arterial. Norton/Yep. Vanderhoef/And when we get to Taft you are at the golf course so it has a logical end at that point. Atkins/Yea Dee. Norton/(can't hear) stop and have to go straight north and over a hill and dale like that. Vanderhoef/There's only one big ravine is that correct Scott? Norton/There's at least two. Kugler/Two. Norton/There's at least two there. Davidson/Yea, what Dee's basically arguing for is the old alignment that we could always consider. Vanderhoef/Absolutely. Norton/Nobody's going to find that package. Vanderhoef/Cause whose going to speak for all these undeveloped areas to in the Hunter Heights area. Davidson/Yea, just answer I heard you and Karen asking a question about sort of what the plan is in the Hunter Heights area. Because the interstate is at a skew, it reduces the size of that area as opposed to if it were a big square. I think you know that we have approximately a mile spacing arterial streets and because of this area being reduced in size, we don't see the need for an arterial street within that neighborhood. I mean that's why Melody and her presentation identified it as it's own intact neighborhood. The arterial streets will be on the border of it. Is basically how we see the plan. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 20 Rockwell/Most of that are is taken up with the golf course. Davidson/Yea, the golf course is also another big land use. Rockwell/(can't hear) Davidson/Right. Vanderhoet7 Is in there. Davidson/The arterial street function of Taft Dee will basically terminate at Rochester Avenue. There will likely be a street extended into that area but because we don't necessarily see it extending over the interstate or anything it will probably be more of a collector type street. Now you know from a pure arterial street planning point of view, I don't disagree that the former alignment of Scott Boulevard and Captain Irish is better from a how you lay out arterial perspective. But I think everybody knows what we're trying to do here is essentially a compromise matter to reduce the amount of traffic on First Avenue by making Captain Irish Parkway a more appealable street to motorists. And that's what that diagonal alignment with this street now T-ing into it, that's what that's suppose to reflect. Kubby/So you're saying that there will really be into that neighborhood, there won't be out much outside except for the golf course that they can use Taft. There won't be much traffic to warrant an arterial within that neighborhood. Davidson/Right. What there will be Karen there will be origins within that neighborhood of residential units where people live that will be need to get out to the arterial's and they will do that via the collector streets. Miklo/Also we don't anticipate any growth (can't hear). Davidson/Yea, Bob maybe can show you where the growth area line lies. Vanderhoef/(can't hear) I recognize that. Davidson/There' s not a lot of developable land Dee within our long-range growth area. VanderhoefJ But why would you stop it? The arterial at Scott. Davidson/Well that's a decision that could be made Dee, subsequently, right now it does not, I mean there's nothing that precludes it possibly going over the interstate, you This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 21 know. For example, in the city of Coralville you have 965, 12th Avenue, and First Avenue going over the interstate. And that those are almost exactly a mile apart. If a decision was made that an additional crossing over the interstate you know we have the one plan here if another one was necessary that's a decision that this does not proclude. Vanderhoef/And what I see with the way this is lined up when you don't use the Scott Boulevard gfid kind of thing you have swung the road west and you put basically another artefial to go over the interstate fight through the middle of where your putting single family housing (can't hear). Davidson/You've talked about this (can't hear). Vanderhoef/And to me I'd rather see the straight through the (can't hear) and let that area sit there and be a nice residential area instead of running, you know later on people are going to say your not going to put an artefial in front of my house to go across the interstate. Davidson/We're going to have a sign fight here to be extended. Vanderhoef/I know we talked about that sign, I'm going to make it neon too but if you build on this street, they are going (can't hear). O'Donnell/I question the need to ever go across the interstate at Scott Boulevard though. Vanderhoef/Oh, we're going to overload. O'Donnell/But I looked at that today and what purpose would you have on doing that? Vanderhoef/OK, I'll tell you what purpose I see in it. Real specifically, when you send the traffic around the present plan of Captain Irish and you don't go up over you are forcing all noahbound traffic through the Dodge Street intersection in that interchange area, if you were to headed to one of those destination points that they showed us that is on the interchange area, if you were trying to get on noah to Solon and on up Highway 1 you would try to avoid that. The next thing is we're trying to keep trucks off of the First Avenue extension so that if we can keep some of those trucks off of the Dodge Street interchange their coming down and they come across on the highway. O'Donnell/That's my question. How are the trucks going to get on Scott Boulevard? Are they all going to come from West Branch is that where their going to hook up. Cause we're not gong to enter onto the interstate. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 22 Kubby/Your saying trucks that are coming down 1 are going to get on Scott and then go on down to BDI and (can't hear) and never come. (People talking) Norton/But I don't see that many trucks coming from noah of town. Facilitate to sprawled over the interstate, my god. (can't hear). Thomberry/No, I don't either. Lehman/Hey guys, it's almost 6:00, tomorrow night and I suspect there's going to be a lot of discussion on this, we're not going to get anywhere near through this tomorrow night at the public heating. I think that something as important as this we need a lot of discussion on. I think we could spend the entire evening tonight on it, but I think we need to move along. Tomorrow night, I've asked Karin to give us a brief overview at the beginning of the public heating. I suspect that that heating is going to be continued possibly several weeks, I don't know. But. Kubby/Whenever we, it comes back, whenever we end up voting on it, can we make sure we have more than 10 minutes to talk about this at our informal work session. Lehman/Oh yea. Kubby/When it comes time for us to, we're going to vote the next night. Lehman/Well and the reason I say that, some of the discussion that we're having right here I think really should be public discussion. I think the public should be heating the question and comments we've got. Kubby/If we have additional questions we can after the public asks their questions and makes their comments then we can make (can't hear). Lehman/That' s correct and I think those are appropriate things to bring home tomorrow night that will be appropriate again when we have the continuation. Norton/It depends on the timing, because if it goes to the public input goes on for a long time we're going to have to get to some other issues tomorrow night. Lehman/That's correct. Norton/Maybe we'll have to do some of ours next time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 23 Lehman/Or the next time or whatever, but I do think we need to spend whatever time is necessary to on this. But let's let's move on tonight. Kubby/Thank you for the details. Lehman/Thank you folks very much. O'Donnell/I thought that was a very good presentation. Davidson/Thank you. (Several people talking) Foster Road- Item No. 14. Item No. 14. Plans, specifications, form of contract, and estimate of cost for construction of the Iowa City street and water facility improvements - Division 1: Foster Road improvements and Division 2: water facility site development - Phase II improvements project, establishing amount of bid security to accompany each bid, directing city clerk to publish advertisement for bids, and fixing time and place for receipt of bids. Chuck Schmadeke/The Foster Road and water facilities project which is on your agenda for tomorrow night for public hearing includes elements from the water facilities project and the paving of Foster Road. Those two projects have been combined. The water projects include the peninsula site work, which is this area right here, includes the power to each of the well houses, the access roads on the peninsula and some grading to elevate the roads above the flood plain. Lehman/Power to those wells will be undergrade I trust. Schmadeke/Right, it comes from the west side of the power dam. Norton/How elevated is the road (can't hear) above the river level, cause right now against the river, almost, some of that (can't hear)? Schmadeke/Yea, I'm not exactly sure, I think it's up to 6 or 7 feet when you get toward the wells. Norton/Stuff in there? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 24 Schmadeke/Just grading from the site primarily. And then the pipeline work for the water facility will continue from the peninsula up to Foster Road. Part of that was constructed a year ago to accommodate the golf course expansion which is right in here. The water line then will extend, there will be a raw water line and a finish water line extend Foster Road and north across the interstate to tie into the water lines that are currently being constructed on the water plant site. Kubby/Is that underneath the golf cart path or beside it? Schmadeke/It's underneath. But that part was constructed a year ago. Then that will be extended both raw and finish water lines extended east to Dubuque Street where the raw water line will tie into a water line that constructed along Park Road here a couple years ago. And then the finish water well line will eventually extend east to the Rochester tank. Norton/Do they mn it to the road or the sidewalk? Schmadeke/It will be south of the existing roadway there on Foster Road. Norton/Under the sidewalk or adjacent? Schmadeke/I don't think we'll be constructing sidewalk at that location. Yea, I think. Thornberry/How does that get to Rochester (can't hear)? Schmadeke/It will then follow-up proposed Foster Road from Dubuque to Prairie Du Chien. Lehman/Right. Across the street up at Prairie Du Chien. Thornberry/Isn't that the delay thing? Schmadeke/That's right. Thornberry/It's been delayed for. That was the grading will be the water line, water level go in, yea. Norton/I thought there was an 8 foot sidewalk on the south side of Foster Road. Schmadeke/Just down to no-name street. Then the trail will go along no-name to Taft Speedway and back to (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 25 Kubby/In terms of Foster Road, what side of the street will we get land from to make the street as wide as it needs to be? Schmadeke/Most of the easements will be off the noah side. We've acquired easements from Elks previously in our negotiations with them except for down to no-name street, where they own that driving range, we'll need to get a temporary easement from them there and some permanent right of way so we can make that a 90- degree intersection. And we'll be negotiating with them on that. Norton/(can't hear) wall isn't it? Schmadeke/No, we'll be south of the wall. Kubby/Right, so we don't have to get into that hill, that would be great. We won't be getting into that hill (can't hear). Schmadeke/No, that's right. But on the south side then we'll push that road to the south and we'll have to fill in their adjacent to that Elks driving range. Kubby/But there will be, cause there's a bunch of trees all along, will we be taking all of those out or only part of them? Schmadeke/Those will be taken out, I think all of those will go on the south side. Kubby/Entertain some vistas? Schmadeke/Right. And then the paving will start at the existing paving in from the Idyllwild edition and extend west to the peninsula and it will include an eight foot sidewalk on the south side from the no-name street west to the peninsula. And a four foot sidewalk on the north side. Kubby/I think as much as I'm hesitant about the sidewalk because of the topography there, even just today I was up at the peninsula in the middle of the day and there were five people walking on the street with kids with strollers, and older people and dogs and stuff and we really need a sidewalk. Schmadeke/If that area develops it's going to be critical. Norton/How much of the project is water and how much is road, dollar wise? Schmadeke/The road is $2.85 million and the water is. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 26 Atkins/Want me to write it down? Lehman/Well you got. Kubby/Eight foot on one side and four foot on the other. Schmadeke/Yes. Atkins/There you go. Kubby/That's going to be a lot wider than that is now. Schmadeke/Oh yes, it is. Kubby/I'm kind of freaking out about how wide that' s going to be especially if your going up a hill. O'Donnell/Yea, extra hill too. Schmadeke/The paving was narrowed to 28 feet through there to just accommodate. Norton/Two-lane. Vanderhoef/Paving is 28? Schmadeke/Right. Kubby/Left four foot on one side and eight foot on the other. Rick Fosse/Karen, I think in the area that your concerned about the four foot sidewalk in the north won't be constructed, the sidewalk on the north is just from Bud Lewis' west. Bud Lewis' east there's just the eight foot on the south side. Kubby/OK. So we will (can't hear) not go into that hill at all? Fosse/Right, that' s been a major design parameters is avoiding cutting back on those hills and some retaining walls that the toes of those hills have been designed into the project to keep the footprint to a minimum there. Kubby/So deer can perch there before they go across the road. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 27 Fosse/Yea. (can't hear). Thornberry/Look both ways yea. Norton/Well that's I. Kubby/Thank you for that clear (can't hear). Norton/And far is the sidewalk from the paving on the south? Fosse/It's at least six feet but I don't remember exactly, I know it's not less than that. Norton/Will there be green left between the two? Thornberry/Clip weeds. Schmadeke/It's called the deer resting area. Norton/Will there be bushes, or trees or screening of any kind? Fosse/Right now the plan is just to put back grass, and our experiences is taught is if we want to plant trees it's by to do that by independent contract after paving contract. Comes a disaster. Norton/Shrubs or something there to kind of buffer the sidewalk from the (can't hear). Thomberry/Oh yea (can't hear) that'll happen. Lehman/Yea, but don't you also have to consider snow removal and what that does to shrubs. Fosse/Right. Norton/You mean I can't have roses along there. Thomberry/Well there not going to be that big. The deer ought to keep them trimmed up. Arkins/Cover them with snow it would kill it all. Fosse/With only 6 feet, we usually stick to omamentals. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 28 Lehman/All right. O'Donnell/And we're going to maintain (can't hear) sidewalk. Fosse/Maintain the. Kubby/Would you say your question again. O'Donnell/Are we going to maintain that sidewalk around the salt???? and so forth? Fosse/I don't know the answer to that. Councilwoman/Because there won't be a property owner on that side to be responsible. Thornberry/That's right. Davidson/One of the things we've tried to incorporate in the design of this road is that it's the only way in and out of the peninsula, and we're aware of that, and we're aware of the sensitivities with single means of access. A lot of time we're on the other side of that coin. One of the things we've tried to do is make this kind of a hybrid arterial (can't hear) street because it's going to probably carry a little bit more traffic volume than a collector typically would. One of the things that we want to keep basically a clear area. Between the trail and the street so that if a tree were to fall over on the on Foster Road so that we didn't have, we would want to get around it. If you plant a lot of trees along there you both increase the probability that eventually that tree is going to fall over on that road or that you wouldn't be able to get around it. So we're going to try and keep that kind of a clear area through there, or who ever asked that question Dean. Norton/What about clearing snow, cause there won't be any property owners there except the elks. Maybe we could stick (can't hear). Fosse/That will just be a 28 foot slab so their throwing half the snow to that side, six feet should be adequate for that. Kubby/I think property owners should be responsible for shoveling and if someone complains to us we would ask the Elks to remove the snow because their the property owner. Who else would be asked? O'Donnell/But it's our trail. Kubby/It's the sidewalk. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 29 Champion/Public sidewalk. O'Donnell/They don't want to put it in. Norton/Somebody's got to be out there cleaning the sidewalks along on Park Road. Dilkes/I think it would be the abutting property owner as it is everywhere. Schmadeke/And I think they have the equipment too. Lehman/I think that's right, they have to do their own driveways and stuff. Thornberry/What about sidewalks? If somebody buys, if somebody has two lots, one that they build on and then the lot that they don't build on, why don't they have to put a sidewalk in front of the sidewalk they don't build on? Fosse/I don't know. Norton/They do. Thornberry/No, they don't. Norton/It's suppose to be continued. Thornberry/It's not. Kubby/But that's not the situation here. Thomberry/No, I'm just asking. Lehman/All right. Any other thing on Foster Road? Schmadeke/One other element on the project is the sanitary sewer starts from the sewer that we constructed the noah river corridor sewer starts there and extents over to the peninsula to provide sanitary sewer to that. Lehman/It runs the same route as the road. Schmadeke/Partially from Plum Grove Acres, Washington Park property and partially on the road. This represents only a reasonably accurate, transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 30 Champion/I don't follow that question about the (can't hear) who pays for that sidewalk? Lehman/We're paying for it. Champion/OK. Kubby/Because it's an arterial. Lehman/Part of the road. Kubby/I know that with the alignment of Foster Road we were trying to avoid that magnificently majestic tree that got damaged in the storm but it's still amazing even a third victim, that little knoll, are we avoiding that tree? Schmadeke/No, can't avoid it. Kubby/We're taking that tree out? Schmadeke/Right. Kubby/Oh that' s a tragedy?? Norton/What does the (can't hear) section there does that include the (can't hear) up to the vines and the trail presumably goes up that way and on down. Schmadeke/Right but the trail has been eliminated. Lehman/Trails gone. Schmadeke/Trails gotta wait on. Norton/What's the easement up there? Could a trail go there later? Schmadeke/We'd have to acquire an easement for that purpose. Norton/There'd be an easement wide enough for that though? Schmadeke/Right but it won't include a trail easement. Norton/Oh, but you'd have a narrower easement now then. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 31 Schmadeke/No, it would be the same width, but it just won't be acquired for the purpose of constructing a trail. Norton/OK. Lehman/Anything else for Chuck? Thank you Rick. Soup's on guys. Break 6:10 Reconvened 6:35 Review Zoning Items 99-37 Side 1 a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for April 20th on a resolution for annexation of 5.5 acres located in the northwest quadrant of American Legion Road and Taft Avenue (ANN99--0001) b. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for the April 20 on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation of 5.55 acres located in the northwest quadrant of American Legion Road and Taft Avenue. (REZ99- 0003) Franklin/OK we've got setting of public hearings to start out with. First is to set a public hearing for the 20th on a resolution annexing about that 5 ½ acres on American Legion Road and Taft Avenue, this is for the Knights of Columbus. c. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for April 20 on an ordinance amending City Code subsections 14-5H, Site Plan Review, and 14-6S, Performance Standards, regarding lighting standards. Franklin/And then the next item is setting a public hearing on the zoning of that property when it comes in to RR-1. Item C is to set a public hearing for April 20th on some ordinance amendments regarding lighting standards. This was a referral from the city council when we were talking about Walgreens I think was when that first came up. And so this a response to that request. Kubby/The lights are on at Walgreens. Lehman/All right. Thomberry/You don't need any security lights at your house do you? Kubby/No, not with after both of those. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 32 Franklin/Setting a public hearing for April 20th, so we'll go into detail of that next time, well not next time the 19th. d. Public hearing on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of approximately 8.08 acres located at the west termini of Langenberg Avenue and Hemingway Lane from Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8) to Planned Development Housing Overlay/Medium Density Single-Family Residential (PDH-8). (REZ98-0018) Franklin/Item d. was a public heating that was set on a rezoning at South Point, that has been withdrawn. e. Public hearing on a resolution adopting and incorporating the Northeast District Plan into the Iowa City Comprehensive Plan. Franklin/item e is the Northeast District Plan which you have already discussed. f. Public hearing on an ordinance amending City Code subsection 14-4B pertaining to a change in Board of Adjustment notice requirements and incorporation of Board powers and procedures into the Zoning Chapter. Franklin/This is basically a housekeeping thing. We needed to change the notice requirements after you directed us to notify people within 300 feet as oppose to 200 feet change that in the code and then we're putting everything that pertains to the Board of Adjustment into the Zoning Chapter because that's what the board deals with is zoning and get it out of the general land use and development chapter. Norton/There are procedures and so on. The mechanics are still in the other one tight? Franklin/No, the mechanics, everything is going to be in the zoning chapter because that's what the board deals with. Norton/I understood it was going to be divided I thought, cause membership isn't there with throwing out members and stuff like that. I thought those mechanics were going to stay. Franklin/OK that's. Any by-laws issues will be in the by-laws, but no, we're not going to leave anything in the other chapter. All. Kubby/Cause you want to find everything (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 33 Lehman/Right. Franklin/That's the whole idea, fight. Norton/I thought parts of it were split up, I thought that's for sure that' s what I read. Unless I read wrong. Franklin/That's what it was, and we want to get it all together. g. Public hearing on an ordinance changing the zoning designation of 2.78 acres located at the northeast corner of Duck Creek Drive and Rohret Road from Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5) to Sensitive Areas Overlay/Low Density Residential (OSA-5) to permit a 14-unit residential development. (REZ98-0019) Franklin/Has also been withdrawn, this was a rezoning to out on Rohret Road and Duck Creek Drive. h. Consider a motion to forward a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors recommending that an application to rezone 49.4 acres from Suburban Residential (RS), Resort (A2) and Highway Commercial (CH) to Highway Commercia!-Fairgrounds (CH-F) for property located in Fringe Area C at 4265 Oakcrest Hill Road SE be approved (CS9910) Franklin/This is for the fairgrounds. And it's fairly simple, the county has adopted as part of their zoning ordinance a special designation for fairgrounds and it is to rezone the fairgrounds from the multiple designations that it had into this one designation CHF for fairgrounds. Pretty simple. Lehman/OK. Consider a motion to forward a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors recommending that an application to rezone 10 acres from Rural (A1) to Suburban Residential (RS-10) for property located in Fringe Area C on the west side of Landon Avenue, 0.4 miles north of its intersection with Highway 1 West be approved. (CZ9907) Franklin/The next one is also a county rezoning. The location is on Landon Avenue and it's to rezone from Rural A1 to Suburban RS-10. This is consistent with the Ffinge Area C policy in that that would be the appropriate designation to consider. If this had just been open agricultural land we might not be recommending This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 34 approval of it but since it was already a farm house in existence here we are suggesting that this is an appropriate rezoning. But I think it's important to consider the fact that as we look at some of these rezoning's in the county we consider their new land use plan as we're going through that now and even though it says in the fringe agreement that we will consider rezoning's to RS-10 or RS-5 that that does not mean it will absolutely happen. We'll consider it, we'll look at it, but if the county land use plan directs it to stay in agriculture then that would be what we would be recommending. Norton/(can't hear) a plan, can we have copies of it Karin? Franklin/If you'd like to personally, you want one? Norton/I guess, how big is it? Franklin/It's about 27 pages of policy and then background and a map. Kubby/So the letter for this I can' remember does it specifically say because there was a farm house there that it's appropriate for, so that it has record the paper trail is very (can't hear). Franklin/Yes it does. Lehman/I think it does. Franklin/I couldn't remember either. Kubby/That's helpful later when people are saying we're being inconsistent. Norton/Now these two are distinct issues now? Franklin/These are distinct issues and I mean one of the reasons that I bring up the thing about the Johnson County Land Use plan is because I think we have to be careful as we look at these county zonings that incrementally we don't just change the character of an area. Cause you look at it as a microcosm and don't see it in the context of the whole and pretty soon you've got little spots of zoning all over. But this is one. j. Consider a motion to forward a letter to the Johnson County Board of Supervisors recommending that an application to rezone 22.69 acres from Suburban Residential (RS-10) to Suburban Residential (RS-5) for property This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 35 located in Fringe Area C in the northwest quadrant of the Highway 1 West and Landon Avenue SW intersection be approved. Franklin/This next item, item J which is also recommended for approval is likewise on Landon Avenue farther south. It is a property that we already zone to RS-10 and this request is to rezone it from RS-10 to RS-5 and basically what that does is it cluster's the development along Landon Avenue and leaves the remainder in open space and that's consistent with the policy of getting the units that you are allowed to have closer together. There is an access restriction on this in terms of Highway 1 that we've advised that the access point to the utility be retained but it never be allowed for further development for further residential development. Vanderhoef/But this does include the density is that correct, when you go from 10 to 57 Franklin/That's fight. That's one of the benefits of getting the RS-5 is you can increase the density but it requires to put it all together, to cluster it. Kubby/How many has been allowed here with RS-10, one or two? Franklin/John can you tell me? Yapp/The original property about (can't hear). Franklin/John, come up to the table so we can pick you up for sure. Yapp/This property did a farm set split and there's actually two lots, the one being rezoned is the one that wraps around the other lot which is about 20 acres. I mean the RS-10 you could have two units. He's getting an increase of one unit, so he has three units off of Landon. And he doesn't have four because of the topography just doesn't allow it. Franklin/So it doesn't maximize. Kubby/(can' hear) down. Yapp/Over the whole 40 acres there's going to be four. Kubby/So we up one. Yapp/Over the whole forty, we're the same. Lehman/Same, yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 36 Franklin/Yea. Yapp/Forty units total. Kubby/So there will be one in that middle. OK. Yapp/Exactly. Franklin/Right. Yapp/Now that middle section theoretically could be split into one more lot but right now there's no increase for the whole forty acres. Norton/Well you said there was a dedication, in your memo, and there's a misprint because it says 10-23-3. I think you meant 19-23-3. In your memo on it. But I think you said the dedication of that (can't hear) provides buffering between these buffers and surrounding and preserve open space for 4-5 (can't hear). What does that mean dedication? You might want to fix the number. Yapp/This area here. woman/You going to get them? Yapp/Do you see the three lots being clustered off of Landon Avenue? The rest of that area, thank you, now you can, the rest of that area being rezoned is set aside in an outlot that is permanent open space. Norton/That's the 19.3. Yapp/19 point, 85 percent of the property. Vanderhoef/So that can't even be used for agricultural open space vs. agricultural? Yapp/Right now, the interest is for open space. In the county you cannot do farming in a residential zone, their looking at changing that though. Thornberry/You can have a garden. Yapp/You can have a garden. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 37 Vanderhoeff So that cluster I thought the reason that we were into clustering was so that we could keep the ag land in production. Franklin/Well there were two functions of that and the main function was to keep it in open space and undeveloped. And in the fringe agreement it says that it be designated as agriculture or open space. Since then we have found from the county that in an RS zone you cannot have agricultural uses. So, that' s one of the changes that we'll look at with the fringe agreement or they will need to look at a change in their zoning ordinance to allow agricultural and residential zones. However, I don't think that's going to happen because of the farm residents conflicts which is why they had that separation. But our goal in terms of the city's position was to get that into open space and have it undeveloped and to cluster the units. Norton/I guess I still don't understand the motion of dedication. Franklin/It's not dedicated, it's not dedicated, it's reserved for open space, it's not dedicated, it's still privately owned. Norton/OK, they could change that, they could (can't hear) ask to do something on that 19. Franklin/No. It is reserved for open space. I mean I can ask but they'll say no. Because it is reserved as an outlot for open space and that's all it can be used for. Kubby/And that' s the reason that we're saying OK. Norton/Yea, that's what I meant by, that's what I thought it meant. Franklin/But it's not dedicated in the sense that we think of it in terms of being given to the public. Thanks John. That's it. Lehman/Thank you. Agenda items. Review Agenda Items 1. Franklin/I need direction from the city council on Harry Wolfe's letter requesting the amendment to the sign ordinance. Norton/Econofoods. O'Donnell/No. Harry. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 38 Franklin/No, Harry Wolfe's letter this is dated March 3, and he is requesting an amendment from the code to increase the allowed signage to more fairly serve the tenants of the area. His example was the Pepperwood in which they want to have an additional freestanding sign because of the size, one or more additional freestanding signs because of the size of the lot, the tract. Right now we deal with K-Mart, Pepperwood commercial as one tract of land because it is integrated, which means that on the entire space which is approximately 1,000 feet on Highway 6 as well as the frontages on Keokuk and Broadway they can have two freestanding signs. In our code we allow two freestanding signs if a lot is at least 160 feet wide and then signs must be 150 feet apart. So they feel that because of the size they it's not really equitable, and would like us to look at a change in the code to allow additional freestanding signage along the frontages. Kubby/I think because the vista, it's easy to see signage that's on the building than in other locations, I think. I think we just need to cooperate like we, we put people the Wal~Mart area, that they've come in wanting extra signs and we just said "no" that's not what the conditional zoning agreement stated and they found a way that everybody gets noticed. So I would decline (can't hear). Norton/I would be interested in considering it. Lehman/Yea, I think so too. Norton/It's a really big area. Lehman/Yea. Norton/Try to limit the same way you would merit some equity between the small lots, and this one there must be some compromise in there that wouldn't make it ugly, part of the bunch of signs. Champion/(can't hear) Norton/Well I mean, I didn't mean that, but some signs could make it even worse. And I agree with Karin you can see a lot of stuff about as small as you can. Vanderhoef/That's the big difference I see between the (can't hear). Norton/I don't know. Lehman/Do we want to look at this? I think we do. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 39 (All talking) Franklin/OK. Then my next question if you want a majority of you want to look at this and we don't need to come with any solutions tonight but if you want to look at it, what is the priority, you have a pending list for the P/Z commission in your packets, obviously Harry would like to have it PDQ. Norton/But it doesn't do any good to put it down. O'Donnell/Well we also have another one in pending. Franklin/Yes, we do have another one that is not in this letter but another circumstance on Riverside Drive where there's an issue of it's a very similar kind of thing. Where you have along Riverside Drive, basically from the Flowerama south, all of those lots are intergrated such that you drive in a one and you can go to the parking lots of all of the other ones along that frontage. As it stands now, there can be only two freestanding signs between the alley and Kentucky Fried Chicken. Because the tract goes all the way around the comer, there's currently one sign at Joann's which is right up against the building on the south side of the building, and there is a sign for Fin & Feather. There are new businesses going in there. Again it's a matter of size of signage in terms of sharing the sign as well as numbers. Norton/You know I think the spirit of wanting to see redevelopment and activity we've got to be concerned about that and I think we can do that at the same time we're concerned with aesthetics. But I think we'd want to take a look at it, but I don't see you putting it off six months, it's not going to do anybody any good. So I would say it ought to get moved up, (can't hear) but I don't think some court case will decide some combines here. O'Donnell/But I tend to think it should be moved up, it should be a priority. Kubby/What's going to get moved down? Lehman/What kind of time do you anticipate this is going to take from the staff standpoint and also P/Z? I mean is this is something that's going to be a long drawn out tough sort of thing to come up with or can we get something that's reasonably simple? Franklin/There's probably words that one could draft that would be reasonably simple. The process of going through it and evaluating it is something else. I would think This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 40 in terms of staff time, it would probably take us about a month, given everything else that's in the docket, I mean these are applications that come before us. Well you roll your eyes, Dean but. Thomberry/I'm just saying government works so slowly. Norton/No. No. Franklin/Probably not as slowly as some private business if I might. Thornberry/We're talking fast food here. Kubby/We should all be looking at the lists so we can say. Vanderhoef/45 in the info. packet. Franklin/It's IP 14 if that means anything. Kubby/Where do we want it? O'Donnell/Well this needs to move up. We have people on Riverside Drive there's like four buildings down there. And they can have two signs simply because their parking lots are continuous, they you can go from one to another and that's not fight. Kubby/But my point is where in the pending list, what should be bump, what is the? Franklin/Let me point out on the list fight now, numbers 1, 5, and 8 are in the works. O'Donnell/To a degree. Franklin/OK, then we would bump down and review zoning requirements for adult businesses. Thornberry/Yes, that's all fight. O'Donnell/I have no problem. Norton/What about (can't hear) for carry out restaurants? Franklin/That's already before P/Z. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 41 Norton/What happened to communication powers? Kubby/(can't hear). Lehman/Those two Dee. Franklin/Number 2 fight now is review zoning requirements for adult businesses. Champion/What does that mean adult businesses? Never mind. Lehman/Never mind. (All talking) O'Donnell/Yea, let's move it up. Lehman/Karin. O'Donnell/Disturbed being more business friendly. Lehman/If it takes a month. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Lehman/If it takes a month to get to P/Z, how long do you anticipate P/Z would have it? Franklin/How long with P/Z have it? I would expect they would have it. I don't know exactly what the sentiment on P/Z is anymore. Lehman/(can't hear) Franklin/No, at your level it will. Lehman/It will. Franklin/I mean we say for ordinance amendments that it takes three months from the time somebody brings it in and that' going through the P/Z commission for two sets of meetings and then the council for five meetings, setting, public hearing, three readings. You could do some flopping if you wish, you can set early so we can get that down. Norton/Well it may not take long if (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 42 Lehman/Well I think the consensus is that we should probably move forward, not consensus, but the majority that we move forward on this. Franklin/OK. Kubby/I'm sorry, don't pervert that use. I don't know but I'11. Lehman/OK. Franklin/OK. Thank you. (All talking) Lehman/Steve. Kubby/Thank you, that means consensus and that's a perverted way of using that word nowadays. O'Donnell/Thank you Karin. 2. (Agenda #16 - CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND CITY CLERK TO ATTEST A CONTRACT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE RIVER STREET/WOOLF AVENUE RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT. Atkins/You will note the low bidder is substantially higher than the engineers estimate. You will also note that on the higher highest bidder is a local bidder. We want to take a couple minutes and get you at least up to speed on the fact that we're recommending favorably on this but also some observations we might have in the future with respect on bidding our projects so Rick start now. Fosse/ Sure. With regard to this project specifically, the three bids that we got are really close together so what that tells me is that's what it's going to cost to get this project done this summer. We do have good experience with this contractor in the past, very good working with the neighborhoods. They do have a new owner but I expect that their practices will continue. On a broader basis, we're trying to look at the whole bidding market in general ofwhat's happening here. And as nearly as we can determine, there's a couple factors that are impacting us, one is the federal T21 legislation which is released a lot of money nationwide for transportation projects which is a good thing, except we're seeing the downside and that is there's more competition from materials over contractors. That drives prices up. Within Iowa alone the DOT's going to be $400 million dollars worth This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 43 of work this year, which is by far a record for them. The labor market as we all know is tight. And especially for some of the skilled labor needed for construction, that drives the price up. And Chuck has done some research with Cedar Rapids and we've found, they sent us bid tags from six of their projects and we found that many of the bidders are the same in Iowa City as they are in Cedar Rapids, which means are markets are tied together. And three of the six projects that they sent us they only had one bidder on those projects as well. So it seems to me a market force this year that's working on us. We met this morning and talked about what does this mean to us financially. The financial situation is workable now, but if this seems to be a long-term trend then we'll need to sit back and look at some of the schedules for projects. With that. Atkins/Just to add to what Rick had said is that this is one project, and one project is not the problem, and we have had a blade of variety experiences. And while they involve different construction trades, we had eight bidders for the parks and recreation maintenance, we had one bidder for a bridge, five for concrete work, we have a rather large project, we're going to recommend you go out to bid on tomorrow night, that's the Foster Road, there is some risk and if this is a pattern that's going to develop. Let's say a year from now, we're going to have to give some serious thought to going back into our capitol improvement plan and kind of rethink this thing. But the thing I'm concerned about is that we have a number of big projects coming on line in the next twelve months, the water plant, the waste water plant, new parking ramp and depending what happens tomorrow a community/events center all could happen in this bidding market. So it's some what of a heads up for you, however environmental issues such as water and waste water, the state doesn't care about our bid problems they care about time tables. It appears as Rick had pointed out that Cedar Rapids and Iowa City has become in effect one market for bidding. I would note that. Change Tape to Reel 99-37 Side 2 Atkins/Eject about a million dollars of the 2.8 is storm water, that means a general obligation bond or general fund expense cause we do not have another source of income to pay for those projects. If we don't (can't hear) it's going to get bigger. So it's a head's up, we still think this a reputable firm that will do a good job. We recommend favorably but we want you to know about our concerns. Kubby/Is it possible to the university's amount to go up because the overall amount has gone up? Atkins/That's correct. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 44 Fosse/Yes, in fact we met with them shortly after the bid to make sure that they were financially prepared for us to award the contract. Kubby/Because it's based on percentage not a set amount? Fosse/Yes, percentage and specific items. So their share went from about 650 up to over 750. Vanderhoef/That number here is the adjusted figure. Fosse/Yes. Vanderhoef/That was one of my questions. Kubby/Is it possible to do a lesser project at this point once the specs have been out there and it's been bid? Fosse/There are pieces, I suppose we could carve out of it, but to do so would compromise how effective of a storm water protection we get on Riverside Drive and then (can't hear). Kubby/There' s no isolated portion of this that we could take out that would not decrease the effect of this project? Fosse/That's correct. Norton/Steve, did I take take your comment (can't hear) that we've got to get something in place pretty soon about storm water assessments of some sort? Atkins/We've been preparing in fact, it won't be this week but next week after that (can't hear) about scheduling about an hour block of time on storm water. Rick needs to take you through the federal rules, what it's going to mean to us, we need to give you some ideas on how to pay for these projects. And it's just something that, these are the kind of projects that are coming in with the extraordinarily high bids. And we're at the mercy of the market and it just simply means greater implications on our debt service, the general fund money. But we'll have something for you, but we're going to need a block of time to talk this through. Kubby/Yea, we may have to cut some more things. Atkins/Yep. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 45 Thornberry/Is this a federal funded mandate? Atkins/Storm water. Fosse/Yea, fight. (All talking) Thomberry/This is a federal mandate. (All talking) Fosse/Federal mandate. Thornberry/I understand not funded, but I think it possibly could be funded, because every state, or every city in the United States is going to be affected. Atkins/Well every city in the United States is effected by waste water projects too Dean. And I mean I can speak in my professional history by Iowa City Manager and a community in Wisconsin back in the late 70's, feds wrote us a check for $22 million dollars in 1978 to pay for our waste water, well we're not going to see a nickel of that. And so that was money 20 years ago. It's nice to think about it but. Thornberry/I know. Atkins/It's not going to happen. We're on our own. Thornberry/Well I'd just as soon not do that sooner than we absolutely have to, because it might be to the point where federal government. Atkins/Yea, and Dean. Thornberry/Bankrupt cities (can't hear). Atkins/And I understand that and that 's kind of the purpose of having a general discussion about that little issue for us to get what's on your mind about that. Started talking about (can't hear). Lehman/OK. Karen. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 46 3. (Agenda #15- PUBLIC HEARING ON THE PROPOSED NORTHGATE CORPORATE PARK URBAN RENEWAL PLAN FOR A PROPOSED URBAN RENEWAL AREA IN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, IOWA.) Kubby/I have a question about Northgate Park. (can't hear). That's on the, well it's for public heating tomorrow night because it's been determined that we won't need a developer, an overall developer agreement. And so my question is, if we end up giving a TIF not to a specific business but for some infrastructure for the whole park like a main road or something, would it be at that time that we would enter into a developer's agreement? Franklin/Yes. Kubby/Thank you. 4. (Agenda #17-CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING A CONTRACT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE 1999 CURB RAMP AND SIDEWALK PROJECT.) Norton/I'm going to ask about a couple of items Ernie. Lehman/OK. Norton/Item 17, is Rick still here? Thomberry/No, he's gone home. Norton/Chuck's still here. On the sidewalk don't we have bids that differ by a factor too, state bids? Atkins/And I think an interesting thing to say. The low bidder on the sidewalk is from Waterloo, and the three locals were the bottom end of the bidding. That's. Norton/418 versus 216 that' s a huge discrepancy, I mean it makes me worried. Vanderhoef/Aren't the alternate bids at the same kind of spread? Norton/Yea, I understand that they are, but I assume (can't hear) change bids. Vanderhoef/They recommend. Thomberry/Huge difference. Vanderhoef/The ultimate award. There recommending the ultimate. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 47 Norton/Already. Vanderhoef/Yes. Atkins/All American is also contimed doing our downtown work. (All Yea) Atkins/We thought they, I know how you figure it Dee. Lehman/OK. 5. Norton/One other, I wanted to ask if on # 11 on the Iowa River Power Dam assignment. Lehman/We're going to talk about that. 6. Norton/That's going to be a separate item. OK. Is this our first time of this forgivable loan thing on the housing? Lehman/No. Atkins/No. Lehman/We had two or three loans earlier. Norton/It seemed to me quite a quite a way to get it done, it's really a neat program. Lehman/Agree. Vanderhoef/But there was a three level loan on the one, and I wasn't sure how much of that was interest, or whether there was an interest or at what percent the interest were for the three different levels. Atkins/You mean the loan for the bank, the CDDG and the forgivable portion? Vanderhoef/Yes. Atkins/I don't know those, I can find those out for you, that' s not uncommon. Karin you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 48 Vanderhoef/The forgivable if they stay in it for five years though. Atkins/There's usually a period of time that their obligated to stay where the. Lehman/Five years. Vanderhoef/Yea, five years to get it from the city loan. Atkins/But you know the tenant-to-ownership, the reason we bought that program is we work real, the chapter works real hard with these folks you can get them qualified. So some time it takes us (can't hear). I will check on the interest. Lehman/All right. Other agenda items. (All talking) O'Donnell/The Iowa River Dam. Lehn~an/OK. The Iowa River Power Dam. Thornberry/#7. Lehman/Wait a minute. 7. (Agenda #7-CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROGRAM AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE IOWA CITY HOUSING AUTHORITY, THE FEDERAL HOME LOAN BANK OF DES MOINES, AND THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA COMMUNITY CREDIT UNION.) Thornberry/This providing Iowa City Housing Authority to $60,000 (can't hear). Franklin/Dean, I'm sorry, could you speak up a little bit we can't hear up here. Thornberry/I'm still thinking that. Lehman/She still can't hear you on the tape. Champion/I can't hear him either. O'Donnell/Start bellowing out. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 49 (All laughing) Thornberry/The providing $60,000 in funding for the benefit of families at or below 50 percent of median income who are purchasing a home. I'm thinking, just dumb me, if your 50 percent of median income why are you buying a home? Anyone want to answer to that? Lehman/What is the median income? Atkins/That's. You can't I mean, size of family. Lehman/Family of two for example. Atkins/Oh, I don't know the numbers but it's. Norton/25. Kubby/It's higher than you think it is here in Johnson County. Lehman/Yes it is. Franklin/Family of four is about $45,000 dollars. Norton/36 for a family to I think. Thomberry/That's the median? Atkins/So cut that in half. Thornberry/So 50 percent of that. Lehman/22.5. Thomberry/Why are you buying a house? Franklin/Well I think the issue that your getting at there Dean is probably the basic issue to the tenant-to-owner program. Because that's focus of the tenant-to-owner program. Is trying to enable people who are at 50 percent of median or less to own their own homes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 50 Norton/Do they take them even below that, I thought they expected them take on the 50 to 80 side? Champion/No. Lehman/Well I think. Atkins/Those are qualifying points which these folks sort of enter the discussion, and then, to be honest each family has to be worked with to determine how we can get them qualified and get them into a home ownership circumstance. Kubby/They have to be (can't hear) qualified, we have a ceiling because we want to get the advantage to people who don't have the advantage. Atkins/Yes, you got it. Norton/Dean, the real question is how are they surviving? Thornberry/Up to six families will be eligible for a $10,000 subsidy to buy a house. And their low income people, what in the wo~d would we want to subsidize them. And anyway to purchase a home when it costs a heck of a lo~ more to own a home than it does to rent a place. Lehman/I'm not sure that's true Dean. Thornberry/Of course it is. Lehman/No, it isn't necessarily. Thornberry/If your refrigerator goes out and your renting, you call your landlord. If you own a home and your refrigerator goes out you got to buy a new refrigerator. Don't tell me the cost ofrenters. Lehman/Bankers tell me, when I talked to them when we first started this tenant-to- ownership program, there are a lot of people who would make house payments smaller than their rent payments. But they can't get the down payment. This is helping them get the down payment. Now if their payment is over 30 years are less than their rent, then why wouldn't you help? Champion/Plus you get a tax credit, you get a tax deduction there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 51 Lehman/I know what your saying, if they've got a problem, your fight. You have to fix it. But it there are folks out there who are making rental payments that are greater than house payments would be. Champion/A lot. Vanderhoef/And there losing a percent of their. Lehman/Yea. Thornberry/My rent at one time was higher than my house payment would have been. However, if something happens to that thing, unforeseen. It costs more to keep up a place. Champion/Well we can't. Thornberry/I'm just saying that if you have to if your on 50 percent of median income 's pretty low. Your not just like, your not median income, but you haven't gotten the down payment, that's one thing. But if your income is 50 percent of median, now that's pretty low. Lehman/22.5. Champion/Starting teachers salary is less than that. Thornberry/And still, I know but a starting teacher may not be able to own a home. Lehman/Connie. Thornberry/Not everybody in this whole wo~d that wants a house can afford a house. Norton/Dean (can't hear). Thornberry/Offof the get-go. What I'm saying that if you've got, if you, if median income, and you haven't got the down payment OK, let's help them get the down payment, I've got no problem with that. But if your income is 50 percent of median income and still need the down payment. Lehman/Well the point is they have to qualify. Thornberry/(can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 52 Lehman/The bank makes them qualify, if they can't make the payment, they can't borrow the money. Dilkes/That's just what. Lehman/They have to qualify to be able to pay it back or they can't borrow the money. Thomberry/Then the city takes a second. Norton/Yea. Lehman/But the bank loans the money just like they would you or 1. Thornberry/I know, but the bank with the city taking a second mortgage is going to look at it a whole lot more favorably than if the city didn't have a second. Norton/Sure. Sure. But Dean, yea, I think your point is to shoehorn somebody in (can't hear) to the home ownership is tficky. It would be no one's advantage to put people in there that are going to fail at it. So that I think that the process of screening them carefully and then tracking them. I think we ought to track this pretty carefully to see what's happening. Our people enabling them to survive and proceed and stay with it if their falling behind because of what you say their too close to the margin. Then of course it's not the fight thing to do but I trust we're getting some follow-up on these, we've had some now. Lehman/We've had three. Thornberry/Of course if your making more than 50 percent of median income you wouldn't be in this program. Kubby/But there are other programs. Lehman/Other programs you would. Our tenant-to-ownership program you would. This is a different program. Dilkes/I think it's important to remember too, it's not just the city that's looking at this, I mean you've got a pfimary lender whose going to be just as concemed that these people can make these payments as they are when they loan money to anybody else so you know, it's not just the city whose looking to see whether they can make these payments. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 53 Norton/But the question is how many of them are coming in later for assistance in maintaining their home and so forth and how many are them are turning down, we have to watch that and I think that (can't hear). O'Donnell/I don't know, maybe they track that. Lehman/But I think we should know that, I think that's something we should track. Kubby/I mean this is the first year that we've actually turned our public housing units over to tenants so we don't have that track record (can't hear). Thornberry/Well I think that's a good program. I think the tenant-to-owner program is a good program, but this isn't necessarily those people. Kubby/Well. Lehman/Well it could be though. Norton/It could be. Thornberry/Yea, but it doesn't have to. Lehman/No. Kubby/But I'll bet when we look back on this in a couple years that those six loans will be...that we're working on, or most of them. Norton/Isn't it true that we have some ability to track these after they have them, other than just because we're a second mortgagor or something, or do we lose track of them? Atkins/I'm not sure what you mean by tracking? Norton/I mean (can't hear) people are running into difficulties keeping the house up and is deteriorating. Atkins/Well, yea, it's ajudgrnent (can't hear). Norton/Or example manifested that's what Dean's worded about that there may not be enough resources to keep up. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 54 Atkins/(can't hear) homes that we built have, we have silent second except for the value of land on this homes, I mean I could go out and look at them today and tell you that they all look fine. Kubby/Right, but those were new construction so. Atkins/No, I know that Karen I understand that. O'Donnell/Isn't that all of part of qualifying, we're going to answer many, many of those questions? (All talking) Thornberry/never happened before. O'Donnell/I would like to think we're going to put more time in it than to. Champion/I don't know how you qualify deterioration, what, how one person maintains their house may be totally different. Norton/Well if it's an eyesore, if it gets that bad, you know, I think we ought to know that, but how (can't hear) going to know that. Vanderhoef/We don't have any inspection capabilities to do that. Norton/Right. (All talking). Vanderhoef/That's what I'm telling you that is that I can see that we don't have that and I'm not sure that we should have it. Lehman/About the only follow-up you really have is if they don't make their payments and we have to foreclose, obviously we know it didn't work. But other than that I don't know how you can track it. OK. Iowa River Power Dam (Agenda #1 l-PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA RIVER DAM RENOVATION, ESTABLISHING AMOUNT OF BID SECURITY TO ACCOMPANY EACH BID, DIRECTING CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 55 ADVERTISEMENT FOR BDS, AND FIXING TIME AND PLACE FOR RECEIPT OF BIDS.) Chuck Schmadeke/On the agenda tomorrow night is a public hearing for Iowa River Power Dam reconstruction. The work involves reconstruction of the dam itself, reconstruction of the abutments on both ends of the dam, pedestrian, walkway, trail, top of dam, power from the west side of the river, the substation next to the restaurant, power from that source over to the peninsula to provide three-phase power to the wells on the peninsula. Construction of a boat ramp in Coralville at Edgewater Park. And extension of the trail on the west side of the river, at 5th Street Place so that we can have access to the dam on the west side. Kubby/Will any. Lehman/Go ahead Karen. Kubby/Will any of that work disturb the wooded area that's in between the sandy area and then the openness of place? Schmadeke/No, it's won't be working just on the east end of the dam, between the dam and spillway. Just bringing a trail down to the spillway. Kubby/OK, but none of the electrical work or any of that is expected to disturb that wooded area? Schmadeke/No. Lehman/Is this going to be bid as a single, well obviously there will be a single price for everything? Schmadeke/Right. Lehman/Is it possible to bid this thing with alternates in case portions of it don't work? Schmadeke/It would be difficult, we could, I suppose remove the pedestrian bridge from consideration, but it's really an intrical part of the construction, the Kalfer??? Dam, for example, is built for both bridge and the dam work. Norton/So you've got to have it either way, I mean if we didn't have the pedestrian, we'd still have to have the Coffer Dam. Schmadeke/Still have to have the Kalfer?? Dam yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 56 Kubby/Yea, to go back in and to put that in later seems to be tremendous. Schmadeke/Right. Norton/Yea. Thornberry/It would be a lot more expensive. Champion/What about all those eagles that are over there? Schmadeke/We can't start work until 10:00 in the morning at certain parts of the year because the eagles are there, they evidently sleep late in the morning. (All laugh) O'Donnell/He's got an answer for everything. Schmadeke/But I don't anticipate the work will disturb them, they're all up and down the river from Highway 6 north. Norton/You mean you can't start work till 10:007 Schmadeke/That' s fight. Lehman/Do you rise with the eagles? O'Donnell/Hey, I tell you what I do (can't hear). Norton/How far do you have to dig for the eagle to start work? O'Donnell/ Lehman/Is this DNR regulation? Schmadeke/I think the corp. Lehman/Corps of engineers. Isn't it something we have to say about, that' s just the way the law is? Vanderhoef/But that doesn't all the traffic off First Avenue or any of those other businesses there normal daily activities. Lehman/Makes them cost more though. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 57 Vanderhoef/And there still nesting there so, I'm comfortable with it. Schmadeke/It will make it cost more. Champion/They're not nesting by any traffic, their probably by the river aren't they? Vanderhoef/ Lehman/Well I think. Kubby/I mean the nests are most likely not, it's in the wooded area. O'Donnell/If their going to build a nest, the traffic is there before they built the nest. They knew what was happening, they knew what they were doing. Champion/Where the nesting is (can't hear)? Lehman/Well, we don't know if they know what their doing but we know they get up late. O'Donnell/ Lehman/OK. I think we settled the eagles, we're not going to bother them, we're not going to wake them up, we're not going to put them to sleep and we didn't tell them to build there nests there. O'Donnell/That's it. Lehman/And you told me that we have them right across the street from the north sewer plant. Schmadeke/That's right. Lehman/And that's right along Riverside Drive. Now, I'll bet we wake them up before 10:00 there. Thomberry/ Norton/Well I tell you if these bids come in out of sight (can't hear), I'm ready to go to somebody like the bridge on the River Kwai, before I let them put a hanging bridge or something like that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 58 Lehman/It's fine except (can't hear) me. Kubby/Their pool. Norton/No, you still got to protect the dam. Thornberry/Somebody will come along and blow it up so. Lehman/Does anybody else have anything for Chuck? This is a big big project, you know, when we started out with this project originally, it was a couple hundred thousand bucks, we had no idea. Norton/(can't hear) 21 the last I saw. Lehman/Well yea, but with the first, our first inclination was we had no idea that there was a problem with that dam on the west side, then we had it inspected and we went from a reasonably small project into one that was over a million and the estimate now is a million five. Norton/Yea I was going to say it was 1.1 at the time of we 96, it was 1.1. Thornberry/Yea, but we bought the bridge for a buck from Coralville. Did they know something we didn't know? (All talking) Lehman/All fight. Schmadeke/We have added 20 percent to our estimate because of the market conditions on our bid. Atkins/This one has been pumped up. Lehman/Instead of a million two it's a million five. Schmadeke/Right. Lehman/OK. Norton/But this is (can't hear) because we found more under the water than we think all kinds of things, fight. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 59 Lehman/OK. Thank you Chuck. OK Airport Terminal. Who will speak to that? Atkins/I don't know. Lehman/OK. (All talking) Lehman/Yes, please, when you speak would you please speak into the microphone so that we can record it. (People talking within themselves) Airport Terminal Maury/My name is Maury Cohen, I'm with HLM design and Ron O'Neil with the airport commission just asked me to give you a brief overview of the project that we're about to undertake out at the airport. There's kind of two aspects to it, one is the interior of the airport, we've had a lot of discussions with the Historic Commission on this particular project and the we were initially brought on board due to the deteriorated mechanical/electrial systems that are out there and I think all of you probably have seen the study that was developed on the airport. Basically what we'll be doing is replacing all the mechanical-electrical support for the airport terminal building. We'll be completely refinishing the interior of the building, adapting some of it's use to the tenant that is currently out there which is the Iowa City Flying Service and creating some additional or better useable public space. Will be restoring and rehabilitating some of the significant historical features out there. This is primarily the 1950 design interior with the woodwork and some of the original United terminal features that were in this area right here. And the upper floor which was originally the cafeteria. Probably one of the major components we're adding to the airport as an alternate to the project is an elevator that will allow the second floor of the airport terminal to be handicapped accessible if the space is used as a public meeting area. In terms of the exterior of the building, not a lot, well basically be replacing all the windows to the building, there in pretty poor condition again we'll be matching as closely as we can the original profile of the existing windows to keep the historic character. We'll also be replacing the north wall here at the first floor which is badly deteriorated. We'll be repairing a problem on the second floor on the north wall. They have water and filtration there now, and they get severe winds so there will be some tuck pointing going on, reworking some flash. We'll do a little bit of work around the building, a new fenced in area in here for access to the runway. We'll be replacing some of the concrete in this area, making access to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 60 the doors off the rimway a little bit easier. And if money allows we might actually do a little work on some of the very perimeter landscaping which is overgrown at this time. Lehman/Are we doing anything, I see the basement's outline there, are we doing anything in the basement? Cohen/Not really, the only thing we've got down here is a boiler room. This is essentially just a utility tunnel. We'll just be using the utility tunnel if necessary to get some of our new services. The building right now has no air conditioning other than some through the wall units. It's heated with a in-floor rating heat system that's, that I'm sure your aware it's leaking pretty badly and what we're doing is putting a new forced air system, three-zone system, and it'll have fairly small impact on just disbanding the other system.. One other thing we're going to attempt to do there is a bad sewer line out there. Lehman/Yea, just I was going to ask, I was looking for it to see if Chuck was here. Are you doing anything about the sewer line? Cohen/Yea, we've got that in the project right now. We are going to bid it as an alternate, it wasn't in the original budget, we feel it's about an $8,000 dollar item so there's a good chance we'll be able to pick it up. We did do a, or Ron did a, ran a camera down the sewer line and definitely has deteriorated and essentially caved in I think at one point so. Lehman/It would seem to me that that is a must and that has to be done whether or not we even put in the windows. Cohen/Well we did it a check of our budget and where we're at, we had one of the. Lehman/Budget's not got a lot to do with flushing the toilet. Cohen/Right. Well we want to make sure we can get it, that's all I'm saying. And I'm pretty confident we'll be able to pick it up. Champion/You know, I'm really looking forward to this getting done, but I'm really concerned about the total cost of the project. Did you have any discussion at all about other uses of that second floor room, what seems really small to me to go to the expense of an elevator for access? It's a tiny room really. Cohen/Right, it's a, it's not a large room. The only, the issue with the elevator is pfimarily the use, fight now I believe it's with the Iowa City Flying Service and as This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 61 long as it's a private use we don't have to put an elevator in there, we are bidding the elevator as an alternate so we can still make that decision. Champion/So you did talk about other uses of that space? Cohen/Right, right. Champion/Not me, I mean it's a lovely room and it would be a nice place to meet but it really is very small to go to the expense of putting an elevator in. Cohen/Yea, we've significantly reduced the cost of the elevator by going what they call a limited use, limited access elevator. Champion/Oh. Cohen/Which is a lot of the churches in town use this kind of elevator, it's some place where you know your only having maybe a weekly meeting or something of that nature so the cost now is in the neighborhood of about $30,000 dollars which for an elevator is significantly low. We were able to use some of the existing structure which is basically a storage room in this area and this area, so we, initially we were looking at a lot more work to get that elevator in, we found a simpler way to do it. Thornberry/If I'm not mistaken, the last meeting we had with the airport commission we suggested to having two bids, one for the downstairs, and the second bid with the elevator and upstairs. Is that number cut? Vanderhoef/That' s helpful. Cohen/Right. Lehman/Well that' s what you said, there will be an alternate. Cohen/Right, there will be an alternate. (All talking) Champion/The two floors, you know you could use the second floor if you didn't want to put the money into the elevator as offices for, and then it would not be wasted space, just because you want the elevator in. I mean do we need a meeting a room, (can't hear) elevator in. Cohen/No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 62 Lehman/No, but I think that, what we're talking about, your just showing us your preliminary plans, is this what we're here for tonight? Cohen/Well we're on schedule to go out to bid with this in a couple weeks. Lehman/Yea, but when we do go out for bid that's when we're going to get the alternative bid, we can decide at that point if we're going to go ahead and spend the extra money to use to the second floor or do just one. Cause we are ready to go with bids? Cohen/In a couple weeks we are. Thornberry/In any case, that will include the sewer line. Cohen/Right. Lehman/Yea, that's not an alternate. Thornberry/That's not an alternate, yea, don't do anything if you don't have that. Cohen/It will make the building a little tough to use I understand. Lehman/Mark. Cohen/I mean that is the other issue with the second floor even if we just want to use it as rental space or whatever, we still have to do the mechanical-electrical work. Champion/Absolutely, of course. I'm not, I don't think we need to separate out the two floors, they can always separate the elevator out cause the use of the second floor can be for other things besides public meeting space. Cohen/Right. Lehman/Well If I. Atkins/Ernie, I think historically, this is where I can think back to my memory bank, we have sort of had an informal, it's probably been formalized now, with some of the things we've done. Policy that we will make public buildings accessible. That's that's, you may bid an altemative and how to go about but I really think that we have made a commitment that our public buildings will be accessible. Regardless of the use and reminding you, one of the theme's I think that helped solve this This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 63 project to you was the potential for that to be a community room, a really nifty community room, other folks can use it. Kubby/So it expands the spectrum of people who come to the airport. Vanderhoef/Well I have a question on it because if it were rented out as space for offices as Connie had said, then there would be money coming back into pay off the elevator and renovation of that space. What I have not heard from the airport commission and maybe they can tell me is whether they anticipate a rental fee to use that space, because I don't think it's ever been talked about. Champion/We don't charge rental fees for somebody to use our conference room in the library. Vanderhoef/Well, I'm asking the airport commission whether they. Thornberry/I think they could probably rent that out, when they start renting out meeting room A in the library. Lehman/OK. Mark Anderson/Yea, the commission such as not had any discussions about if the public wants to use that space to rent that space to the public or to some company or some individual group. We saw that as being public space, and if they wanted to use that space, call some place, register a time for it to be make sure it's reserved for their use and so on. But until that point, until the Iowa City Flying Service lease is up they still will be renting that area. I guess, it's just something we haven't thought about or talked about. Lehman/How long does that lease go? Anderson/I believe around another three years. O'Neil/Two years and eight months. Anderson/Two years and eight months. Lehman/The other thing that I think is important for us to remember when we replace the windows, we don't just replace the windows on the first floor, we got to go all the way up. We've got electrical for the entire building, we got heat and air conditioning for the entire building, and literally the only big item for the second story is the elevator. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 64 Champion/Your right. Lehman/The rest of it is rather minor because the big expenses are over with. Now we bid it as an alternate, but I can't imagine that we wouldn't do it. O'Donnell/You have to have an elevator. Champion/Right. I changed my mind. Thornberry/Is the second floor floor, the floor of the second floor, is that level? Cohen/Yea. Thornberry/It is. Cohen/As close as it can be. At least I haven't noticed it. Thornberry/Did you put a level on that? Cohen/I haven't put a level on that. I mean we didn't see any sev, that was nice beauty of the building we didn't see any real severe structural damage or anything that was telling us that building was in bad shape other than mechanical work. Lehman/OK. Thornberry/What happens if you do, what happens if you start tearing that thing apart and find something that was total, is that going to come back to us and say it's going to double the price or what? Norton/ Cohen/Well you know, I'm foreseeing on hidden conditions can always come up and bite you but we tried to look at the building pretty closely again this is a fairly simple building so I don't. man/Yea Dean, we had our project budgeted about $50,000 for just exactly that. Thornberry/OK. Good, thank you. Lehman/Karen. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 65 Kubby/There were three items in the memo from the chair of the historical preservation that I think we should talk about a little bit. One of them is making it a little more clear in whatever documents we have the contractor to reuse the existing woodwork as the preferred approach, not just it's an option but that it's really the preferred approach. Thornberry/There are a couple, he can probably talk to that, some of the wood, why, if your going to remodel a log cabin for a public use, why not put in insulation type of thing. If your going to reuse some of that wood, why not bring it into the 20th century type wood. If it can't be used fine, but if there's something much much better that looks similar I would suggest doing that as opposed to using the. Kubby/If it's in good shape why use more materials? Thomberry/Cause it if it is a whole lot better (can't hear). Cohen/And I think Karen that is the real issue is what we're trying to give the contractor the option to do is if a. we've already priced this thing replicating the millwork that's there, but we're giving the contractor the option if we can take down some of this, and keep it in good condition, some of it is in good condition, some of it is, it just would be more work to bring it up to look as nice as the rest of the project than that we would have to lose which isn't in good condition. But some of it is really easy for the guy to get back up and look as nice as the new finished product will, then you've certainly got the opportunity to use it, I think. Kubby/So the difference is saying that I mean the preferred approach adding that your hesitant to add that and that it may add cost because of labor. Cohen/It will be very labor intensive to do it right. Thomberry/Then you might have a, then you might end up with a mix and match. Some maybe but like a window flame for example might be OK in a couple windows but then the rest of them might have to be completely replaced with different material. You want to keep a couple of them just to say this is what it could have looked like but and then you have other ones. Cohen/There's part of an answer to that, I mean we may have an opportunity to where several rooms may be able to keep all the original woodwork, and use the original material. But we won't have enough material to do the entire project so that I, that to me would be a reasonable call. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 66 Kubby/So I mean if council doesn't want to say the preferred approach as long as the contractor understands the value here. Cohen/Right. Champion/Right. After (can't hear) a home I can tell you it's very expensive to keep your old woodwork and have it be restored and refinished and I'm not sure I want to spend public money to do that at that expense, if it's useable yes, I think it should, but not if it has to be restored. Norton/(can't hear) Norton/Does the historic preservation have the saying on inside, I understand it would be nice to keep things fairly as they were, by and large there's some (can't hear) appearances on the outside which I think there are some obligation if we're going to stay in a historic category right, the main appearances. Thornberry/Yea, that meeting when the historic preservation commission was there and they requested exactly what Karen said, and they wanted the way it was on the inside, left (cant' hear) when it was built. Kubby/So it's not (can't hear). Thomberry/And again the what he just said pertains and also the building is not exactly 50 years old, it doesn't even fall into that level. Norton/Yea. Thomberry/They have gone above and beyond, (can't hear) for example. Norton/Well the outside thing where they said let's do try to do that where. Lehman/Siding. Norton/That' s how they would plan to do it. Lehman/What is the position of the siding? I think we were talking about using Aluminum is that correct? Cohen/Yea, we gave them an opportunity to use vinyl with the same exposure but we've got such a small amount of it we just decided with the commission to go ahead and we'll put the redwood in there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 67 Lehman/So, you've addressed that concem? Cohen/Yea. Lehman/What was the third one Karen? Kubby/The third one was just that the salvage bam be contacted the salvage materials before their discarded. So that they can pick through it and stuff that can be reused in other venues, before it's a less expense going to the landfill and we can store some materials that people from the community come in and take it. Cohen/Good. OK. Mark Anderson/I'd just like to add the technically yea, the only thing we need to look at and be sensitive to is the exterior of the building from the historic standpoint but Maury has done an outstanding job having the whole interior of this come up to what I call almost a replication of the way it was in the 50's. In fact, we've added features on other walls that replicate some of the other woodwork that's been done especially on the United hanger, or the United wall, some of the grillage?? and the woodwork and thing, and that's really exciting. The other thing that we did, just a couple of days, is started looking at the interior of finishes and things, and picking some materials that again are period 1950's and things. So, I think as a commission we're really excited because this is going to be, it's going to have a new feel to it, but it's going to look like something that's very very 50's. Champion/Well I'd really like to spend money on this but (can't hear) a building that is still very intact. Anderson/They're even going to rehab the lights up in the second floor. So that, you know keep the rest of it. Norton/You know what I wish, (can't hear). (All talking). Lehman/Well then my understanding is you'll go ahead, will be asked to put it out for bids when a couple weeks. Cohen/Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 68 Lehman/All right, then we'll just go from there. Any other questions? Thank you folks very much. Hogan/Ernie can I slip in for a second? Lehman/Please do. For a second, actually we'll give you a minute. Dilkes/I'm sorry. Lehman/Real quick. Dilkes/I'm sorry Mark, Howard. I'm a little concerned here because we have a quorum of the Airport Commission here and I as I understand it this hasn't been posted as a airport commission meeting anyway, we've got now two of them talking and that's contrary to the way we normally do it, so. man/(can't hear) Dilkes/No, but the problem is, we now, we have now two of you up here and we have this dialogue going between you and the council and. (all talking). Lehman/OK Howard. Howard Horan/Real quick, I really hope that you approve the project with the elevator, that upstairs room is really very nice, it's early period. It is actually larger than where we meet now, in terms of total square feet, it's larger than the meeting room in the bus barn. I think it would make a great public space, we can have the Experimental Aircraft Association, a Civil Air Control, we can get them going and we can provide some place for them to work. Maury has done an outstanding job on this, he's pleased all the people from historical preservation and made excellent use of the space and I don't think wasted any money, in fact, saved some, found some so I hope you approve it. Thank you. Thornberry/Anybody else (can't hear)? Lehman/Thank you. Police Citizen's Review Board. Eleanor do you want to start us out on this? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 69 Police Citizens Review Board Dilkes/Sure. I'm going to come down here cause I can't see on the TV. Kubby/You're way too far away. Dilkes/They seem to me to be fairly self explanatory, the changes. I think all I really did was to make the changes that I thought the majority of you sort of tentatively approved at the last meeting. Those, the changes have been approved by the PCRB. Essentially with respect to identification of officers the SOP's provide that a unique identifier will be used by the police department at net supports to the PCRB. The PCRB will not use that unique identifier in it's public reports. And then we included a statement in there about basically sort of the rule of evidence that we talked about that evidence of misconduct was or allegations of misconduct could not be used as evidence of the same. The summary dismissal procedure basically the PCRB was agreeable to not inviting the complainant to a public meeting to address the issue, their main concern was in getting the information and there are a number of ways to do that I think that was the resolution that you talked about and that' s the resolution that we now put in the SOP' s. Kubby/I have a question about the way things are worded for identification of officers with the number being different in the board reports and I'm concerned that there might be some unintended consequences if the same number is used for more than one officer in the public report of the PCRB that the public may see the same number but it's really different officers or how do we insure that that doesn't happen? Dilkes/You mean the public might see officer, if they use officer number 1 and 2, they might think that that's the same officer from report to report? Kubby/Yea. And that may create some assumptions from the public that aren't really true if we either. Dilkes/Yea, I see the, no I understand, I understand what your talking about. I think that would be quite an assumption to assume that, I mean cause 1 and 2 are 1 and 2 and 3, it's a consecutive to assume that every time they issue a public report that officer 1 and 2 are the same ones as they were from the last report. Kubby/I think it would be an easy assumption for the public to make. O'Donnell/I do to. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 70 Dilkes/Well I think it's easily, I mean you can correct it easily, then they can just say something at the beginning of their reports officer 1 and officer #2 are just randomly assigned to or something like that. Vanderhoef/Well and the other thing I was thinking was perhaps we should actually start numbering the officers higher than that, first 10. Dilkes/Well I think you have to remember too, it's not that the problem with the unique identifier is that it allowed the public to take the unique identifier and attach it to an officer's name. This will not happen with numbers 1, 2, 3. I mean it seems to me it's easily correctable. Kubby/Because we know we've been dealing with the details of this philosophy of the law, the life of it for the past year, in my, it's easy for me to understand that those are different officers each time, we're just using them to say Joe and Sally, we're using 1 and 2 but I don't know if the public will make that translation. Dilkes/And that's what I'm suggesting is I think you could put something at the beginning or the PCRB could put something at the beginning of their reports which just says this isn't the case. Don't assume, officer John Watson just walked in. Karr/That's what I was going to suggest is part of their standard format. It could be part of their standard format that would note the added, one sentence in the front or the end which ever that denotes the numbering system is not. Kubby/OK. And so that ensures even if there's a sustained complaint and the PCRB decides using whatever standards are created to have that officer's name become public that that unique identifier and the name of the officer are still not connected. Karr/Correct. Norton/You could use Officer A and B, would that help? Well you know, sometimes. Dilkes/I mean it act, in some respects it might. Norton/Sometimes A and B are followed in more substitutable than one or two, whatever. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 71 Kubby/Because we have badge numbers, the number and the letter might help it make it be a little more distinguishable. And I don't know if it's that big of deal but it's just I mean it's obvious that a couple of us thought about that. Norton/And they'll look for someone's last name that begins with A. Dilkes/John Watson just walked in, just for your benefit because your board meets tomorrow that the issue was raised if you use officer 1 and 2 in your reports, a concern that the public might take from one report to the next officer 1 is the same officer, officer 2 is the same officer and what's been discussed here is some kind of disclaimer at the beginning of your reports that that' s not the case. Kubby/We just don't want any unintended consequences or. CHANGE TAPE TO 99-38 SIDE 1 Dilkes/If it's a problem it's easily correctable. Lehman/I don't see it being a problem. (All talking). Lehman/John understands. (All talking) Lehman/And we will try to see to it that (can't hear). O'Donnell/Unidentified. Lehman/All fight. Do we have any? man/(can't hear) Dilkes/Yes, we understand the issue. Lehman/Council have any questions for Eleanor? Thomberry/The only question I have is they are still identified by PCRB, is that not correct? The officers? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 72 Dilkes/Yes. Thornberry/That' s why probably I'll be voting against it. Champion/OK. Vanderhoef/And what page, page 6 your 5.2, section 5, identification of officers #2, allegation of misconduct or (can't hear) of misconduct to get to know officer is not and shall not be used by the board as evidence of misconduct. I still would like to see all of the unsustained allegations removed so that there isn't the need for that, as long as board is going to have the identity of the officer. Why do they need to have continuing information on unsustained allegations that have already been dealt with? Dilkes/I thought that was the discussion that you had last time. Thornberry/Right. Vanderhoef/And that's why I'm saying that would take care of that and not have to do this other one, and likewise then when you get into the annual report. The registry of sustained complaints is one thing but a registry of unsustained complaints is not necessarily, particularly with officers number identifiers. Dilkes/I, I. Vanderhoef/Are not good. Dilkes/I'm not sure I completely agree with you though because just as an allegation of misconduct in a, I mean a sustained finding from a previous complaint is not necessarily prohibitive on a current complaint. I mean. Lehman/So it, (can't hear), so what your saying is (can't hear). Vanderhoef/(can't hear). Dilkes/No, I'm saying that's for you to decide but I don't know that the distinction you make between unsustained and sustained, I don't know that I buy that. O'Donnell/Well then Eleanor does an unsustained complaint have any validity at all. Vanderhoef/No, to me it doesn't. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 73 O'Donnell/If it doesn't, why should it be tracked? Vanderhoef/That's what I. Dilkes/That's for you all to decide. Champion/I used to be just a real piglet on this, but we've had this discussion for hours, and hours and hours, and there are still are four of us who want to move forward, can we just move forward without having this discussion every time it comes up? O'Donnell/I'd (can't hear) to move forward. Champion/I'm ready to go forward. O'Donnell/OK. Lehman/Thank you Eleanor. Dilkes/Thank you. Lehman/Summer Schedule. Marian. Summer Schedule Karr/I've had a number of you express an interest in looking at the summer schedule at this time. There are a couple things I'd like to point out. I'd like to note that you are scheduled for a work session on the end of May, the 31 st and a formal meeting June 1 st. We have three meetings scheduled in June, two in July, and two in August. Champion/When are the August meetings? Karr/The August meetings, as of fight now, are 10 and 24. Champion/I will be gone (can't hear). Karr/The first Sunday in August is the 8th. The first Sunday is the 1 st, excuse me. Champion/I will be gone. Norton/We're scheduled for the 9th and 10th? Karr/Yes we are. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 74 Norton/I'd like to skipped. Karr/Can we go back, can we back up into a (can't hear), can we? Vanderhoef/Let's try, what are we going to do with Memorial Day? Norton/Skip it. Vanderhoef/Memorial Day is the 31 st. Thomberry/The last one I have in my book is May 18. Karr/OK, that's, then lets start there. We are scheduled then to meet again on the 31 st and 1st. Vanderhoef/And that's Memorial Day. Karr/Memorial Day is the 31 st, correct, and it is important that we take a look at these dates because we do have some projects coming up that staff would certainly schedule around but we just need to know that ahead of time. Champion/Well we certainly aren't going to be here on Memorial Day. Karr/There are several options available to you, you certainly could reschedule that work session, you could have your formal without it, you could have it before it, or you could just skip that one altogether and stay with the 15th and 291h of June. Thornberry/I think we better continue with the early June because of the things that we've got going for (can't hear) season. Norton/Well that she can consider those, we've often skipped the first one in June, would be my recommendation, I'm not going to be here the first one in June so that's I'm just urging that. Lehman/Second one is 14th and 15th? Karr/That's correct. Norton/281h and 291h. Thornberry/Wow. Three weeks later. 14th and 15th. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 75 Kubby/Although the 291h is an election night, the Stanley Amendment is suppose to be on the ballot that day, and prefer that we continue to strive to avoid election night. Vanderhoef/Although I don't want it moved. Norton/That's all over again, I think the election's over by the time the meeting happens, and (can't hear). Kubby/Maybe the way you campaign, but the way a lot of. Norton/You want to party you mean. Kubby/No, there's still an hour or so, plus there's the whole prep time on the weekend and then the people. Norton/Yea (can't hear). Kubby/The people who have business with council don't get to participate fully until the end. Vanderhoef/I don't. Lehman/Do we have anybody else have a problem with the 281h and 291h of June? Champion/No. O'Donnell/No. Kubby/ Thomberry/Are we still doing 14-157 Lehman/Yes. Kubby/So we're skipping the 1 st? Lehman/Well are we? Norton/We're considering that or moving it. Lehman/The first meeting is June, what's your pleasure? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 76 Champion/I don't care. Norton/Usually we cut one in June and one in August, that's what. Karr/That's what we've done the last couple of years, that's correct. Norton/So that's but I I. Vanderhoef/OK, so if. Karr/We've done it. Thornberry/If we need that moved do it at 6:00 on Monday. Vanderhoef/If we were just. Norton/Maybe they can't decide tonight and want to look their calendar over. Thornberry/6:30. Norton/That's my proposal. Lehman/Do we want to skip the first one in June? Champion/Yes. Lehman/All fight, then no council meeting on. Karr/So we're canceling the 31st. Vanderhoef/Wait a minute. Are we going to continue with doing the May 31 st? Karr/No, we've canceled the 31 st. Lehman/That's the one we canceled. Vanderhoef/We've canoeled the 31 st so then we can't skip the 14th? Lehman/Right. Champion/No, we're not skipping that one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 77 Karr/We're, OK, so far we're just canceled the 31st of May, the 1st and June, we've maintained 14-15, 28-29 and we're to July. Is that OK? Thomberry/I'm sorry 14-15. Karr/OK in July we're scheduled for the 12th and 13th and the 261h and 271h. Champion/ Karr/Is that? Vanderhoef/(can't hear) on the August bit? Karr/I haven't gotten to August, I'm in July. Vanderhoef/OK so then the. Karr/July we're OK, 12th and 13th, 261h and 271h. Thornberry/I'm sorry I didn't hear, I heard 28-29 in June, and then what's next? Karr/OK we're into July now, 12 and 13, 26 and 27. Thornberry/Well gees. OK. Karr/Is that a go? Lehman/Yea. Karr/OK, brings us into August, our regular schedule calls for the 9th and 10th, and 23rd-24th. Norton/I'm gone 9th and 10th, you wouldn't want to meet without me. O'Donnell/Absolutely not. Vanderhoef/I would be happy to skip that one. Karr/Skip. Champion/Which one? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 78 Vanderhoef/9 and 10 in August. Karr/That's two. Norton/That' s typical in the past. Kubby/That's fine with me, I have an art fair the weekend before, and not to have to come home for a packet would be. Karr/Again I want to clarify if there's a need for a meeting we'll, we will keep you informed and we'll have a special meeting if needed. We're looking at fight now. Lehman/Tentatively we take off. Karr/Cancel 9 and 10. OK, can I keep going a little bit. 23rd and 241h of August would be our regular meeting. Then we head into September. We have Labor Day the 6th and 7th, that would be our regular week. Thornberry/I'm sorry what days? Lehman/6 and 7. Karr/September 6th and 7th. Lehman/And Monday is Labor Day, is that correct. Karr/Correct. Lehman/Do you want to move that to? Karr/You could move Lehman/13th and 14th. Kubby/Yea. Karr/Up to you. You'd have two in a row then the 20th and 21st. Vanderhoef/ Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 79 Karr/Oh, can I just double-check? Does anybody know when the league meeting is? man/League meeting. Karr/Cause that's always in September. Atkins/No, League meeting this year is in October. Karr/OK, thanks. Atkins/October 6, 7, and 8th. Kubby/ Karr/OK, so we're going to move the 6th and 7th to the 13th and 14th of September, OK. Lehman/I think that's far enough. Karr/Well, OK. (All talking) Thornberry/Through September. Vanderhoef/Do we want to do a 13-14 or do we want to do a 7-8? Karr/I'll repeat them all and I'll have a memo by tomorrow night. Lehman/All fight, just put them on a memo. Kubby/We all have attention deficit. Norton/What is the possibility of because if you slip back and maybe you get into further problems, is there any possibility of 7~8, Oh, I don't know, it doesn't work. Karr/Are we into September? Norton/(can't hear) the 7th and 8th. Karr/I'm sorry, what month are you in? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 80 Norton/August, or September. Karr/You're in September. OK. Kubby/We haven't gotten there yet. Norton/Oh yes she has. Lehman/Yea we have. Karr/Yea, I would need to know that, because it would make a difference for some of those August (can't hear). Lehman/I personally have, I guess I can get along with, I really think the meetings should be on Tuesday nights. Champion/I do too. Kubby/We could do the 7th as informal, and then the formal. Lehman/On the same day? Meet at 3 or 4 in the afternoon and then come back at 7:00. Kubby/ Norton/My only question is if we move it, if we skip the 6th-7th, move it to the 13-141h, we can't do much better, then we would skip Yom Kippur, be back on the 27th- 281h of September. Karr/No, you won't be back. Norton/Move it back to a later time. Karr/No, you wouldn't be back to a regular time. You'd have to back to back meetings at this point to get that. Champion/(can't hear) a regular time meetings. Karr/You could do it that way but you'd still have back-to-back meetings at some time. Lehman/Got to have back-to-back meetings. Karr/Yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 81 Norton/Well. Karr/But you could do that. Norton/ Lehman/All fight, Madan we're going to go through. Karr/OK. Lehman/The 271h and 281h of September. Karr/OK. The last one that you'd have meetings the 13th and 14th of September and the 20th and 21st. Lehman/Yea. Kubby/The 20th is Yom Kippur, I'd really like to (can't hear) I'd really to have not to have a meeting on Yom Kippur. Lehman/No, that's, we want to, fight. Karr/So we want to switch. Lehman/Switch that to the 271h and 281h. Karr/OK. Norton/Now how does that affect October? Karr/Well then in October it would mean you would have back-to-back, the 27th-28th and then you'd meet the 4th and 5th. Lehman/We're going to have back-to-back someplace. Karr/It's the only way to get back. Norton/ Vanderhoef/27th and 28th (can't hear) have school. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 82 Karr/Is what? Lehman/Oh. Champion/I don't have my market calendar with me because I just thought we were going to do summer. I mean I'm going to have problems in October. Lehman/All fight, Marian if you would make a note that we kind of tentatively decided on and we'll get them tomorrow night, we'll check our calendars, if you have a problem, we have another meeting a week from tonight, and we can go over. Champion/OK. Norton/(can't hear) We've got council time. Vanderhoef/Yea. Champion/I can bring my market schedule with me tomorrow but. Lehman/You wouldn't even have to have it tomorrow, as long as, if there's a problem, as long as we know about a week from tonight. O'Donnell/Marian's going to put (can't hear). Lehman/All fight. Council Time. Council Time 99-38 S1 1. Norton/Well I know I've got a lot of things I'm looking over here, just deciding to take time out to go. And I guess I'll try to do some of these in a memo because I want to report on several meetings that I think maybe to note. I met with Julie Phye on some issues related to Stepping Up, I've got several proposals out of that but I'll put it in a little memo for your consideration because I think maybe the better mechanics are relating to them. Whose doing, in other words for them to tell us, suggest they (can't hear) for us to respond to them. I'll talk with (can't hear) a little bit about that. 2. Norton/On the SEATS thing, Mike and I met with the SEATS committee, but we realized that looking over the agreement that you, the letter of agreement you had with the county that there are certain things we expect from the county at the end of the year, and it's coming up and so Mike and I are going to try to draft a note This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 83 saying hey we'd like to have XYZ as agreed. Cause fight now we're not, as far as we can see we don't have any coming don't we? But I think we need to do that. 3. Norton/I also the north commercial area, Ernie and I met and I don't know when their going to decide whose doing what to whom on the airport because the Science Center is getting pretty antsy about if there's going to be a road or not? I don't know just when we'd decide that. Lehman/Well except that I think we talked about this with the CIP and until we get somebody whose ready to move. Norton/OK so we are. Lehman/We are doing the engineering as we speak and it will be ready to go, and if something comes up. Norton/Until we get a tangible customer. Lehman/Yea. Norton/In addition to the the not paying customer. Lehman/Well no no, I think the Science Center alone would trigger that. Champion/Oh sure. Lehman/But their not a "go". Norton/ Kubby/(can't hear) lease comes up. Cause we said once we got the engineering plans we need six months to actually do something. Lehman/Half a year right. Kubby/Their going to need at least six months for fundraising and all that stuff. Lehman/Absolutely. Kubby/Because an agreement about a date. Lehman/Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of Marel, 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 84 Norton/Well I would say there are some nibbles coming at, Karin's talked about some nibbles that might be used in pushing this project along. I want you to take a hard look at the minutes of the BTC committee that Broadband's Telecommunication or just telecommunication's now I guess. Cause for example, does Coralville pay a piece of our cable costs? Helling/No. Norton/Would that be possible for them to consider that? Helling/We have had some meetings with them and we're going to have to continue to do that but if your talking about a portion of our costs to program the government channel the answer is no. Norton/Yea. Well I think it's something we might want to consider, I don't want to nickel and dime them but we might just want to. Helling/I met with the Coralville Cable Commission on one occasion with Kelly and Rex Brandstatter whose the chair of the commission on several occasions over the past couple years, but what frankly we're asking (can't hear). Norton/OK. Well. 5. Norton/And the other one I thought was very interesting, the RNA, the Riverfront Natural Areas, that's a very important suggestion I think about a survey of our creeks and trying to get serious about water quality in the role of our creeks and cleaning them up or whether we've got money enough to do a decent survey. And I think they raised some really important issues that relate to storm water questions and water quality questions. Atkins/Your going to hear that (can't hear). Norton/And we need to really get, they've got some great ideas, they need to put them in a form of proposals to us I think and recommendations and some of them come down to funds other than the $15,000 kind of PIN grants that we proposed people are trying to deal with because they've, I mean they got to cut their own trees, and dig their own dirt and worry about liability and stuff like that, but I think it's crucial we get a handle on our drainage's, particularly Northeast for example. Kubby/The neighborhood associations could be helpful in gaining permission from property owners to go and do the inventories. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 85 Norton/I think it's a really terrific thinking on their part, I realize that the commissions are a place to get ideas and they need to be reminded that form of formulate them is such a way that we can react to them and I think that's, well I've got too many o f them. Champion/Well I think we should all talk about what Emie and Holly asked us to get together now on this senior thing. Are we suppose to organize that meeting? (can't hear). 6. Norton/Yea, that's what I wanted to ask, whose next on the Senior Committee? Lehman/Well. Norton/Connie and I met, or I met with them and Connie and I have been briefed a little. Lehman/Is Pat White, is not back in town yet? Champion/No. Norton/Whose the initiative there Emie? Lehman/Well I thought Jonathan and Tom Thompson are going to be on that committee. When Pat gets back in town, Jonathan's suppose to let us know. Champion/Oh, OK. Lehman/And then I think, what I'I1 do is have Jonathan call you see, and you guys can set up a meeting. Norton/Well I want to kind of hammer out whose going to run the meeting, somebody's got to. Lehman/I think you folks get together, you should probably name a chairman. That way I also indicated to you that if Pat White is going to serve as a voting member of the committee that we will request that we have someone from our own legal staff, I'm not sure that we need, our legal staff has better things than sit at those meetings. Norton/Yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 86 Lehman/And if Pat wants to work as a, you know like a consultant with the committee, he certainly may, but if he wants to work as a voting member of the committee then we probably should have somebody from our own legal staff. Kubby/Maybe it's not Pat's decision. Lehman/No no, I don't, I'm not saying it is, I think it's the Board of Supervisors decision. Norton/Well and there's some, as everybody knows there are some fairly delicate issues in there to be worked on, I don't know whether... is going to be there or some representative of the council of elders. Lehman/There will be. Norton/Pretty delicate. Lehman/Two people connected with the senior center, either the director and the chair of the Senior Center Commission or there possibly could be two Senior Center Commission members and the director would be the staff person at the meeting. But there hopefully we've got folks who, at that meeting who could have input for the committee. Anybody can appear before the committee. 7. Norton/Now one last, I have a really angry constituent who lives near the tennis courts, and invites you to go over some evening and drive up Dunlap Court and take a look at the impact, without shielding on those lights. I guess it's pretty heavier duty that you think, for somebody who lives in the neighborhood unless they keep their blinds closed. So I think it's an issue that needs to. Thornberry/Are there any trees there Dee that are going to leaf out to that are going to help block that in the summertime? Because it's not used much in the winter, but I don't know ifthere's any trees there that are going to shield that in the summertime. Norton/I don't know. (Norton-Thomberry talking) Norton/Well I just encourage you to drive down Dunlap Court and walk between a couple houses and take a look. Thornberry/And I don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 87 8. Norton/OK. And the other thing is will the staff in talking about, I want to pass through Marian or somebody. I notice a lot of commissions are looking at the absence policy and jumping on em from all kinds of angles as we were trying to do something weird here other than make life simpler for them. So I hope the staff will. Thornberry/Really, you mean some of them are getting upset about it? Kubby/I agree with the overkill comment. Norton/Yea. I know, I just thought we were trying to be helpful, we're looking for their remarks and I hope staff is presenting it in that, we'd like to hear their comments, not just to get angry but. O'Donnell/I'm sure they are. Thomberry/Are there some commissions that are getting real upset this? Norton/Well they think we're spinning their wheels and talking more about than they should be. Thomberry/Than you and Ernie, that isn't, the decision that you and Ernie worked out. (All talking). Kubby/Because we asked for feedback, and we're heating about it and then it's we're giving feedback, we asked for it. Norton/I'm hearing it in a tone that I don't care for. Thornberry/Did you tell whose on the committee? Kubby/Maybe it's something about how they don't like (can't hear). Norton/I want to be sure the staff(can't hear), that's all I got. Karr/Staff is presenting the same memo that you presented, we just gave them the same. Norton/It has to do with undertone. Kubby/You probably better go to every commission meeting and present it with a. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 88 Norton/Yea right. Thornberry/Yea right. You work it up with Emie to see which ones you want to attend. Norton/All fight. Lehman/All fight, Karen. 9. Kubby/I have a question about the downtown streetscape improvements. This next phase does it incorporate College Street? Atkins/Yes. Lehman/Yes. Thornberry/Yes. Kubby/It does OK good, then that takes care of. I get. Vanderhoef/College Street. Champion/Right. Lehman/The Ped Mall. Thomberry/Top of the alley and now it goes from the alley and around the comer. Kubby/And far around (can't hear) will it go? (All talking) Lehman/Goes all the way to Linn Street. Thornberry/Yea. Vanderhoef/I thought it was stopping. Lehman/Clinton. Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 89 Lehman/Or to the library anyway. Champion/Right. Kubby/Cause my concern is that we're doing all this tearing up of stuff on College Street in-between the fountain and Clinton Street and that we're not, if that's not where we're also doing improvements. Atkins/Yea. (can't hear). Lehman/Oh, we are. Atkins/I' 11 get you all a sketch. Kubby/Is that where were going, that's all I need to know? (All Talking) Vanderhoef/The part I thought we were going to hold back on was from the fountain east over where we were in front of the, where the possible construction was going to happen. Thornberry/Will it go around, I thought it was going around toward the other way. Lehman/It does. Thornberry/Oh OK. Norton/(can't hear) on the one side. Kubby/I just want to make sure we're not tearing stuff up twice. Lehman/No we're not. Atkins/No we're not. Kubby/And the answer's no so (can't hear). Atkins/I'll get you a sketch. Lehman/We're doing a water main right now and it should be done in about 2 weeks or 3 weeks. The completion date for the total project is November. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 90 Kubby/The other part of this is a concem that we're not trying to transplant more of the trees that we're just. The ones that are not in good health and damaged from the storm I understand and that' s fine, but some of the other trees, the more trees we can transplant the better. Like the ones around the playground. Atkins/I will do my best to assure you that if we can transplant it, that is get the equipment in, if the tree is salvageable we will transplant it. Lehman/I talked to Terry Robinson about that Karen, last Saturday, a week ago Saturday. He told me and I have no reason to, I'm sure he knows what he's talking about, the tree, in most cases, the trees are old enough that the chances of them surviving transplanting are very remote. And the cost of transplanting where you have to remove the grading of all of the brick work in order to put that spade in, it's just cost prohibited. But he said two things, cost is very very high, and the chances of survival are very very low. Thomberry/Because of the age of the trees. Lehman/Age of the trees. Champion/So just pretend their a HMO and dealing with it that way. Norton/I'm also surprised to see that in regards that they (can't hear) to start with, inappropriate (can't hear). Vanderhoef/A gingko. Norton/Yea. Kubby/Well you can't tell, that's the problem with gingko's, when their really young you can't tell if their male or female, which is maybe a reason why you shouldn't choose that species but. 10. Kubby/I have a couple of really quick things. One is when are we going to be talking about transit again or having dates for the public information meeting. Atkins/We will have, if fall goes well you'll have transit routes at your next (can't hear). Kubby/OK a week. Lehman/A week, I talked to Joe Fowler about that too. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 91 11. Kubby/And lastly for me is this piece of legislation that may threaten the cities ability to place rental properties with a lien when utilities are not paid by the tenant. And I just think that we need to be on that and that that would be a huge expense for the city to have to try to track down. Norton/Oh yea. Kubby/Tenant, and that we need to be, even though our legislators might be fine on it, they don't (can't hear) that we need to reinforce our position on that. Maybe I'll write up a sample letter and pass it around, and see if people would be willing to have the mayor sign it. Lehman/I think that's a great idea. (All talking) Thornberry/You might want to (can't hear) have the same thing cause their going to be in the same boat. Norton/But if what they say they need to hear from citizens too. man/Yea. Yea. Yea. Vanderhoef/Go to Cedar Falls then too. man/Yea. Yea. Yea. Lehman/Dee. 12. Vanderhoef/Just a question for council. I noticed when JCCOG Jack Elliott came to (can't hear) and brought some information about the ECICOG that there were still quite a few questions about it and I've been sort of struggling with how to report to you folks with what's happening there and I wondered if giving you a copy of the minutes would be helpful because it would be real simple for me to add those to the council packets if you'd like to have it. And then if you have some specific questions of what you see there I'd be happy to visit with you but to go through all of those kinds of things that are there, they go over, come up at those meetings, I don't know exactly how to communicate that to you folks. Thornberry/Could I have it in paper? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 92 Norton/It's not so much for me of what their doing, it's. Vanderhoef/Still have to (can't hear). Norton/The things I'm interested in is the overall structure, that is, whose on first, whose paying, whose getting, why is ECICOG there instead of JCCOG, I understand the difference in the purview but I need to know exactly who does what to whom and why we have that particular structure, rather than something more rationale, it looks to me like JCCOG and ECICOG and various agencies are kind of unclear as to whose doing what for whom. That's all, I'd understand it. Vanderhoef/OK. Norton/So I don't need the minutes I need a briefing on the role and status of EC. Kubby/Sounds like you two should have coffee. Vanderhoef/OK. Norton/Yea. Thornberry/I went to one of those meetings and I didn't have a clue either. I didn't understand. Vanderhoef/Well then there's the East Central Employment and Training Consortium too which is the other one that there are minutes to and likewise I can put those in the packet too. Norton/A little bit like me trying to get a handle on Human Services. Thomberry/Yea. Lehman/Connie, you have anything? Mike. 13. O'Donnell/I do, I was just going to, we've already discussed it, talked about signage down on Riverside Drive. Lehman/We've got that (can't hear). O'Donnell/We've got that covered. Lehman/Dee, did you have anything else? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 93 Vanderhoef/As long as, I think I hear you want the minutes of it just for a starter, you can tell me to stop them if they aren't doing you any good. (All Talking) 14. Lehman/I have one thing, weekend reports each month on the violations that are written up in the bars. I, if we have four people who are interested, I would like to see council drop a note to everybody that we issue liquor licenses to indicating to them that their record of violations may impact the issuance liquor licenses, even though I know that's not true. (All talking) Norton/I think that' s kind of a threat Ernie, we kind of say. It could be. Lehman/Well. Champion/If they come up with an ordinance I'll deal with it. Lehman/I think this is a state law though, Eleanor. Dilkes/I guess what I'd like to see, if four of you are interested in looking at how you can affect the licenses. Lehman/And you'll look at it. Dilkes/And we need to look at it. I've already been in contact with Cedar Rapids, yea, until you. woman/Yea. Dilkes/Cedar Rapids, you do. (People talking) Lehman/All fight. Dilkes/OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 94 Lehman/We'll put it on a work session. O'Donnell/We also have, we also have people that have more towards a liquor licenses. Kubby/In terms of numbers. O'Donnell/Yea. Champion/You know I'm not in the (can't hear). Lehman/Well we're not ready for that yet, that's coming. (All talking) Dilkes/It's the not the moratorium, but you want to look at how, what authority you have over renewals, revocations, suspensions, that kind of thing. Lehman/Yes, absolutely, yes. Let' s start there and I think there are going to be some other things that we talked about. Norton/Well Julie and I talked about some too. Lehman/And there all going to be part of a more comprehensive addressing. Norton/(can't hear). (All talking). Atkins/Now it's, what I've given you is the same general format, what we're going to do it's projects, their numbers, their on a map and every 60 days we're going to drag it out, redo it, ship it out to you, throw that one away and we'll (can't hear). Thornberry/That's great. Atkins/OK. Thomberry/Thank you, thank you, thank you. How about a, oh, how about a colored circle (can't hear). Karr/One other thing real quick, we sent you a request for your board and commission business listing. I need, I got DV's and I got Karen's. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999 March 29, 1999 Council Work Session Page 95 Lehman/You sent one. Karr/Your ownership in business. Kubby/(can't hear). Karr/Yea, it was in the packet, I've got hard copies here but listing. (all talking). Dilkes/No, no, no, what business interests you have? Catherine. (All talking) Adjourned 8:15 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of March 29, 1999. WS032999