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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-04-05 TranscriptionApril 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 1 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session 5:00 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thornberry, Vanderhoef Staff: Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Davidson, Kopping, O'Brien, Ripley, Doyle, Yucuis, Fowler, Head, Long, Logsden Tapes: 99-38 Side 2; 99-42 S; 99-43 S A complete transcription is available in the City Clerk's office. Review Planning and Zoning 99-38 S2 a. Adopting and incorporating the Northeast District Plan into the Iowa City Comprehensive Plan. Karin Franklin/We've only got two items, one is the continued public hearing of the Northeast District Plan, I don't have anything to add. Do you want me to say anything tomorrow night? Lehman/Well the only thing I would like and I'd like council's concurrence on this, I would like to whatever we get tomorrow night, I have no idea whose going to be here for public hearing. Again, if it goes too long, I'd like to limit it to an hour or so. But I would like to see, there's a meeting next week with the staff and some contractors or whatever. I would like to us, I would like to see us defer this until we're comfortable with it, which might include a work session where we discuss it after hearing the public comments about it. And if we choose to make changes we send it back to P & Z. Norton/Well, that's what I, what is our rough timeline, because if we make any changes of the subject I'm sure it it's got to go back through the whole process. Lehman/I don't think we have a timeline do we? Franklin/Yes. No, we don't have a timeline. I mean, you lo~ow. Norton/Within reason. Franklin/Within reason, whatever that is. Lehmm~/Well, we just keep it moving I think. Franklin/Yes, I think it's much more important that you be deliberative about it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2 Lehman/I agree. Franklin/And do what you need to do. Kubby/So do? Vanderhoef/The only thing that I was concerned about is that it shows on tomorrow night's agenda as a resolution and as long as that stays up there as a resolution, it's like your putting people on notice, and yet we're real clear that we're not ready to move forward with it to vote on it. So I'd like to see it deferred for three meetings or whatever. Kubby/So each time it doesn't show up as a resolution. Franklin/You can. Vanderhoef/So it doesn't show up each time and get everybody (can't hear). Franklin/You can defer the resolution to some date or indefinitely but then continue the public hearing. I mean I'm assuming and I would advise you not to have a gap in this. Norton/No. Franklin/Of some indeterminate period of time, and I don't think that' s what your intending. Lehman/No, I don't think we're going to have a gap at all, we're going to have the public heating will be on every single agenda until such time as we get through with it and even send it back to P & Z or pass. I mean even if no one's here, we just continue it, but I think we continue with it until we're done. Norton/What I'd like to know is this. Let me play out something, Ernie. If they meet, if staff meet. Lehman/The meeting with developers is a week from today. Franklin/April 12. Norton/Suppose what's, after your done with that meeting, what does staff do with the input you get7 May, let's suppose might you revise it some (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 3 Franklin/We don't know, no. I think it's up to the Home Builders Association, the Chamber of Commerce to propose amendments if they want to amend it. And bring that topic to the city council. If you then agree that you want to make some changes, some substitutive changes, then it goes back to the Planning and Zoning Commission and we go through that again. Norton/Then I'm getting clearer. Once that meeting is over, conceivably that group could bring, or some other group could bring some specific suggestions for wording changes to the council? Franklin/Absolutely. Norton/If we adopt any of those of the consequence, they have to go back to P & Z. Franklin/If you consider any of those. Lehman/Right. Franklin/Not adopt them because your not going to adopt them until it goes back through P&Z. Vanderhoef/Consider them. Norton/If we say this looks like a good possibility. Franklin/Right. Lehman/Yep, send it back to P & Z. Franklin/Then you refer it back to P & Z. Norton/A list of those would go back to P & Z and we'd have a joint meeting. Franklin/Right. Right. Right. Kubby/And I assume at that point we would finally close the public hearing, go back to P & Z and reset. Franklin/Reset. Letunan/Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4 Franklin/But we would not make any amendments at this point because we've taken it through a process through Planning and Zoning and to the Council. So the only amendments we're going to make at this point in time is at the direction of City Council. Thornberry/How are we going to know what changes is the Home Builders propose to staff after that meeting with staff'?. Franklin/They will need to propose those changes to you. Norton/To us. Franklin/And we will advise them of that. Thornberry/When is that meeting set? Franklin/The 12th at 3:30 in the large conference room of the Chamber of Commerce. Norton/Well I think the Dean raises is an interesting one, I guess I understand the process, I, the question is what point we act is certainly now not for several weeks. Lehman/I don't see it for a while. Norton/But we don't want this to go on endless either because they'll overlap, they have other plans to work on already so, we got to get a moving. Lehman/I agree with it, but I do think that we got to be very careful, that what we do is correct. Because I think that this is in some way going to help set the stage for all the rest of the plans. I think we've got to be right, as fight as we can be. Kubby/Well we have adopted a plan previously so. Franklin/Yes you have. Kubby/And their each going to be different because there (can't hear). Norton/Somewhat different. Kubby/Kinds of participation, different areas of town. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 5 Lehman/I agree with you but I think that this plan, because of the topography lends itself to several other plans which is not true some like in the first one, which is a good philosophy. Norton/I (can't hear) I find you know, I find some of the (can't hear) some of the things are fairly specific to a particular area but nothing is blanking, I think it does pretty well. O'Donnell/How many are going to be at this April 12th meeting? Lehman/Well I plan on being there. Kubby/We can't have more than three there. Lehman/We can only have no more than three people. Thornberry/I'm going. Norton/And we want to hear about what the Home Builders have to say, you mean. O'Do~mell/I would like to. Vanderhoef/April what? Norton/ Franklin/12th. Vanderhoef/At 2:00. Lehman/3:30 isn't it7 Franklin/3:30 yes. Vanderhoef/I'm out of town so I cannot go. O'Donnell/So, how many are, we can only have three. Lehman/We can only have three of us. O'Donnell/Connie, do you want to go? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 6 Champion/You already spoke to go, yea, Dean wants to go, you already spoke up before I did so. Norton/Well I'd like to go, I'm not going on a desperate (can't hear), as, when I hear, I can read the minutes. Champion/Right. (All talking) Lehman/Well, can there some notes taken by someone at that meeting? Franklin/I' 11 get a note-taker. Lehman/And then we can have copies so the council will have (can't hear) Vanderhoef/That would be very nice. Lehn~an/Of the questions that. Norton/Yea, we want to hear the surround, not just the bottom line. Lehman/I think that's a good idea. Franklin/I will point out that this is different sort of treatment than we have had for the neighborhood workshops and that those did not have minutes. Norton/I see, but we don't want to be unfair here. Franklin/I mean, we just need to know that. Kubby/Right. I'm just trying to turn this around that if it were Environmental Advocates who came at this stage of the process and said you know we have this whole problems with it, that I think there would be some problem, we would have a problem with that process, a special meeting with some environmental local groups. Norton/Yea, we might not. Kubby/Coming in, that there would be some resistance to doing that. Norton/Giving them so much difference I guess that I'd like. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 7 Kubby/And so I think we need to be very careful about this. Lehman/Well I got a problem. Kubby/We need to make sure that that meeting is announced in some way because (can't hear). Lehman/Well I have a problem with this one too, if you remember last week, I told, where were you folks at P & Z? Kubby/I was very happy that there was (can't hear). Lehman/I don't know where they were but I really think that's where they should have made their input. Norton/I think that' s a very good point. Champion/Yea, I don't understand where they were at. I'm kind of irtitated, I don't mean at the individuals. Lehman/Well no, I. Champion/They have so much time, things that should have been discussed long before that. Lehman/Well I think we all agreed, tomorrow night we'll have the public heating, we'll continue it or until whatever time we feel comfortable. Vanderhoef/And we'll defer the resolution till what date? Kubby/Indefinitely would be smartest. Lehman/That's fine. Franklin/That's fine. And then you can tell us. Norton/The Council as a group has never had specific input paragraph by paragraph. Lehman/No, but we've, I think we need to do that after the public hearing. I think we need to have a work session, or special meeting, where we go through what we've This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 heard as a Council and if we have concerns, and whatever and we make note of those and if we decide then to send it back to P & Z we do it. Kubby/OK, so we would should hold our questions till then? Norton/But you can start feedback. Lehman/I think probably. Kubby/That's fine. Franklin/I thing I'd would like to say is I'm delighted that there's so much interest in comprehensive planning. Lehman/You said that tongue in cheek didn't you? Franklin/No, I'm sincere, I'm glad that there is interest, whatever precipitated it. Lehman/Well, now's the time. Franklin/I'm glad people are getting involved. Dilkes/I just have one comment. It seems to me that if your going to post notice of the meeting and you're going to take minutes at the meeting, you might want to consider, I mean your pretty much you got a meeting. Franklin/I don't consider this our meeting, but the Home Builders Association, Chamber of Commerce that they set it up and asked us to come. Dilkes/Yea, but I'm just talking fi'om the council's perspective, I mean we're going to do everything that makes it a meeting for us, take minutes, post notice, then you might want to consider not having to limit it to. Franklin/What is the posting of notice? Lehman/Probably post notice. Dilkes/Karen had mentioned that we need to publicize the meeting and. Kubby/I mean making sure the public knows, I mean one of the points that our City Manager made was everyone in the community whose been involved in this and has an interest in this has a right to know what those comments were as if they This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 9 hadn't, like we're making a special neighborhood meeting for this section of the community and so everyone should have the right to benefit of those comments. Franklin/We had a number of private meetings throughout this whole process with large property owners, with developers who would not typically go to neighborhood meetings. I mean it's just not going to happen. And we availed ourselves to them throughout this and have had private individual meetings with them. I believe that the Home Builders and I mean Environmental Advocates could be treated in the same fashion, that if there is any group that wants to meet with us on this issue, that we would do so. I don't know that that necessarily makes it a wide open public meeting, however, the outcome of it must be public if we are going to consider it in the plan. Champion/So, do we really have to, I personally don't think we should post it or have minutes. Franklin/That' s. Dilkes/That's my suggestion, you're starting to treat it like it's a meeting. If it's not a meeting, don't treat it like a meeting. Treat it like a staff meeting in a couple homes. Right. Norton/There will be a memo from those agencies if they so chose. Franklin/If they so chose. Norton/Suggest it, and those suggestions can be hammered on by environmental advocates or anybody else, what we're concerned with. Franklin/But the burden is on the group to come forward with something. OK. Lehman/All right. Franklin/Thanks Eleanor. 7b. Consider an ordinance amending City Code subsection 14-4B pertaining to a change in Board of Adjustment notice requirements and incorporation of Board powers and procedures into the Zoning Chapter. (First consideration). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 10 Franklin/And Dee was right about that that the description of the Board and the membership is in the administrative chapter and this all of this other stuff goes in the zoning chapter. 7c. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for April 20 on a resolution annexing approximately 10.3 acres of property located east of Scott Boulevard at Washington Street. (ANN99-0002) 7d. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for April 20 on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation of approximately 14.91 acres located east of Scott Boulevard at Washington Street from Medium Density Single-Family Residential (RS-8), Low Density Multi-Family Residential (RM-12), and County Suburban Residential (RS) to Planned Development Housing Overlay (OPDH-8; 8.36 acres), Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5; 5.43 acres), and Low Density Multi-Family Residential (RM-12; 1.12 acres), and a request for a preliminary OPDH plan to allow 72 dwelling units on 8.16 acres. (REZ99~0004) Franklin/You also received from Scott Kugler an additional agenda items setting a pubic hearing for April 20th on a resolution annexing 10 acres of property located east of Scott Boulevard at Washington Street and then a public hearing on the zoning of this property. The applicant has asked that the resolution be placed on the same agenda as the public hearing and the first consideration of the ordinance be placed on the same agenda as the public hearing. I need to know well, now if you can tell me if you will grant that request of the applicant because then we would put on the agenda for the 20th. Vanderhoef/What's the reason? I haven't read this. Norton/Neither have I. Lelunan/Well time restraints, this is been going on for a long time. I mean they were suppose to have had approval. Franklin/Yes. Lehman/From zoning January of 99 and they've gotten an extension but they can't guarantee how long the extension would be. I have no problem on voting on this as long as there's not some huge thing to come up at the public hearing that we're not comfortable with. Kubby/As long as we have the discretion to defer if we so choose. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 11 Franklin/OK. Well why don't I put the resolution and the first consideration on and then you can decide at that meeting based on what you hear at the public hearing. Norton/This is a pretty complicated set of issues. Lehman/Well we still have two more readings. Norton/OK. Lehman/Well I think if we're not comfortable with it we don't do it. Norton/Start it, (can't hear). Lehman/OK. Kubby/There was a memo in our information packet from Planning and Zoning Commission I think saying if your going to switch Wetherby Park or Wetherby Drive or whatever, instead of having it Lakeside, we made the decision to have that little end be Wetherby and not make that whole strip Wetherby and I have a problem in that there, I mean you've got a school, you've got a whole bunch of residences that would have to take personal money to change all their addresses and stationery and everything to do that, you know but we should talk about that. Vanderhoef/The original request from P & Z was to keep it all one name. Franklin/Right. Norton/But we were trying to (can't hear). Vanderhoef/And Council made the effort on their decision so. Champion/People that live there. Norton/I don't want to go back and change Lakeside either because Lakeside apartments, named themselves that way long since. Our committed Grantwood is, their address is well known there, I would think it would be a real imposition on those folks, I don't even want to propose it to them. O'Donnell/I don't either. Kubby/We'd just like to rethink our decision. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 12 Norton/If you don't like the Wetherby on the fight end, on the end that goes to the park that was what we were trying to. Vanderhoef/Well, and there can be a Wetherby in the design of it. Norton/Oh there can be a Wetherby, they were talking about this particular road, yea. Vanderhoef/And this is where the creation of the confusion happens when the street doesn't continue with the same name. Norton/Where should this come up? Lehman/Well if we want to discuss it, I think, if we want it to come back up, I think now's the time to say it, there are four people who would like to reconsider the naming of the street, we should note that and put it back on the agenda. Norton/Karen, how badly does it worry you that the name changes crossings? Kubby/I think it' s. Norton/We've got that so many places I don't. Kubby/Why do we perpetuate it, it just causes additional confusion in new parts of town we have an opportunity to not cause confusion. O'Donnell/I think we already (can't hear). Kubby/But. Lehman/Well the idea is that. Kubby/Did you hear what he said Connie, we've already brought this up. Thornberry/Brought up to me last time, do we want to change something about PCRB, and I said it's done, we've already voted on it so. Kubby/I didn't bring this up out of the blue, there was a memo about this issue in our packet. Champion/But there are four people that want to. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 13 O'Donnell/I don't. Champion/I don't either. Kubby/And people want to keep it Lakeside and Wetherby. O'Donnell/ Kubby/So we should let Planning and Zoning know that that we did talk about it and want it (can't hear). O'Donnell/ Norton/I Franklin/I'll let them know. Norton/Again, I forget, am I the swing person here, I thought you'd asked already. Kubby/No there's not, there's only two people. O'Donnell/Not the swing. Norton/OK, then I'm not the swing so I can say I. Vanderhoef/You voted against it last time and so did (cant hear). Norton/I was going to let it have a different name because Burlington changes into Grant and nobody seems panic so, I didn't see any huge issue but. Champion/Some streets change (can't hear) Norton/And I understood the certain logic if you wish. O'Donnell/It is a new street. Norton/Yea I think Wetherby. Lehman/Well we don't have four people who want to bring it up again so. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 14 Review Agenda Items 99-38 S2 1. (Agenda 5c(2)- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR APRIL 20 ON PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA AVENUE MULTI-USE PARKING FACILITY PROJECT, DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF SAID HEARING, AND DIRECTING THE CITY ENGINEER TO PLACE SAID PLANS ON FILE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.) Jeff Davidson/Mr. Mayor tomorrow night which ever of you makes a motion on the consent calendar, we would like you as part of that motion to delete Item 5c(2), setting a public hearing on the plan and specs for the parking facility. We've just got a couple of things we want to clear up between now and next council meeting and we'll have that back on the agenda on the 20th. Lehman/Delete 5c(2). OK. Davidson/We'll have it back on the agenda on the 20th. Norton/Just a minute, there was something else on the agenda Ernie, just a minute, hang on a minute. 2. (Agenda #9- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION DETERMINING AN AREA OF THE CITY TO BE AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREA, AND THAT THE REHABILITATION, CONSERVATION, REDEVELOPMENT, DEVELOPMENT, OR A COMBINATION THEREOF, OF SUCH AREA IS NECESSARY IN THE INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY OR WELFARE OF THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY; DESIGNATING SUCH AREA AS APPROPRIATE FOR AN URBAN RENEWAL PROJECT; AND ADOPTING THE NORTHGATE CORPORATE PARK URBAN RENEWAL PLAN. And (Agenda # 10- CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE PROVIDING THAT GENERAL PROPERTY TAXES LEVIED AND COLLECTED EACH YEAR ON ALL PROPERTY LOCATED VVITHIN THE NORTHGATE CORPORATE PARK URBAN RENEWAL PROJECT AREA, IN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, COUNTY OF JOHNSON, STATE OF IOWA, BY AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE STATE OF IOWA, CITY OF IOWA CITY, COUNTY OF JOHNSON, IOWA CITY COMMUNITY SCHOOL DISTRICT AND OTHER TAXING DISTRICTS, BE PAID TO A SPECIAL FUND FOR PAYMENT OF PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST ON LOANS, MONIES ADVANCED TO AND INDEBTEDNESS, INCLUDING BONDS ISSUED OR TO BE ISSUED, INCURRED BY SAID CITY IN CONNECTION WITH SAID URBAN RENEWAL REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT.) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 15 Kubby/I have a question on Item 9 and 10, the Northgate Park. Vanderhoef/Page 53 starts that. OK. Kubby/Go ahead if you have a question on that. Vanderhoef/OK, I wanted to look at a question about it's unclear to me about the land that has already been developed out there and whether they are taking that land or property off and putting them in the TIF district so that their taxes go into the TIF pot. Franklin/The TIF would be granted by business. Lehman/Right by private. Franklin/By project as it comes in. Vanderhoef/OK so the previous ones. Franklin/So it's very unlikely that it would be on any of the existing properties, the only thing that I can think of is if there were a change in hands in the property that it went to another business and they wanted to do a significant expansion that then were would be an incriminate in value that could possibly feed the TIF but. Vanderhoef/The previous tax that that business is presently paying. Lehman/Oh god. Vanderhoef/Stays in the (can't hear) Franklin/That is always the cause because the Tax Increment Financing is only on the added value, so you have to add value to do anything. Vanderhoef/OK, someplace in here though the this is what I had understood previously but when I read it it didn't sound like it. And I want to say it's on page 69 maybe. Franklin/OK. I just have normal pages. Norton/I have page 54 and following. Franklin/In the urban renewal plan per chance. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 16 Kubby/Yea. Vanderhoef/Yea, maybe page 70, section 3. Kubby/Or page 15. Franklin/I've got like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Kubby/Try page 15. Vanderhoef/15. Franklin/Is there a 157 Norton/In the plan, no. Franklin/What's the section. Vanderhoef/OK, I'm on Section 3. Kubby/Look at the bottom of the page. Vanderhoef/B, no, the top of the page is now therefore be ordained by the city council City of Iowa City, goes section 1, 2, 3. Norton/I've lost track. Champion/They started me on the computer. Norton/(can't hear). O'Donnell/C70. Franklin/That the Northgate Corporate Park Urban Renewal Plan area is an economic development area. I know that portion of the taxes. Vanderhoef/(can't hear) portion of the taxes each year in excess of the base period taxes determined as by provided in Section 2 of this ordinance. Kubby/It's the ordinance. Dilkes/It's the ordinance yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 17 Karr/It's the ordinance not the resolution. Norton/Is this a 20 year TIF while we're waiting? Lehman/I think that we, we decided that. Kubby/(can't hear) each time. Lehman/But we decided on each individual (can't hear). (All talking) Lehman/Yea we set the maximum. Vanderhoef/I'll have to find it and bring it into you tomorrow. Franklin/OK. Vanderhoef/I'm sorry. It's in there. Norton/What kind of responses do we have from the other agencies? I mean do we have a formal letter response from the county? Franklin/No, we didn't have a formal letter, we had a meeting with the school district, representatives from the school district, the Johnson County Board of Supervisors, basically there was no discussion about the tax implications at all, there was some discussion from the Johnson County Board of Supervisors about the location of where we were using the TIF but it was more land use than a tax implication. Kubby/I have a question on page 5 of the plan, page 60 on the computer, and 5 on the plan. It's on the section of public infrastructure improvements. And so some of these things that are listed here, are not things that the public pays for but maybe I'm misreading this. Franklin/It is because they become public infrastructure, that it adds to the whole system of infrastructure in the city as these things are built by private developers they become owned by the public. Kubby/OK. So. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 18 Franklin/So for instance it's not for in this case for public infrastructure improvements would not be for a service line to a particular building but would be for the main. Lehman/Road sewer line. Franklin/Sewer line, however, these TIF's are for private or public improvements so in each case as a business comes before you and wants to engage in a TIF, your going to look at the specifics for that particular business, what your giving them the money to them for and the amount of taxes that are going to come back and the length of time in which that TIF would be in place. Kubby/Is it possible under this plan for Southgate to come in and say we want the sewer lines and the storm water management and things that don't go necessarily just to a specific business to come in and ask for a TIF for those park improvements that aren't necessarily for one particular business? Franklin/You could, they could but then it would be your decision as to whether you wanted to grant Southgate development that privilege. Kubby/Right, where is there is somewhere in here that outlines that possibility or is that just in here in that public infrastructure improvements section? Franklin/lt's inherent there and it's inherent in the fact that they own the land now. Kubby/And they would not have to meet the economic development guidelines? Franklin/Yes they would. Kubby/They would. Franklin/Yes. Kubby/Now how is this different than Scott-6 when the city contributed to infrastructure that helped the whole park and they did not have to meet those (can't hear). Franklin/Because we made a decision to in partnership with the Streb's develop the Scott-6 Industrial Park. Kubby/OK. Franklin/It wasn't a consequence of the TIF. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 19 Kubby/So whether it's Southgate or whether it's individual businesses, each entity that comes to us for a TIF must meet those requirements. Franklin/Yes. Kubby/That helps me a lot. Norton/But isn't it up to Southgate and the city to make sure that the infrastructure that maybe put in piecemeal is a coherent total? Franklin/It's up to the city always as we issue permits and accept the public infrastructure so. Norton/Well I just keep thinking that one unit is developed and some infrastructure put in to serve that is not compatible with. Franklin/They have to meet our engineering standards. Norton/OK, so we'll somebody will have to have a layout for the whole scene. Franklin/Yes. Norton/Of some certain sense. Franklin/Yes, oh definitely, in terms of the general infrastructure, most ofthat's in. Lehman/But any application I'm sure would be reviewed by staff. Norton/Yea. Franklin/Oh yea. Lehman/Before we get it, I mean it would have to fit into the pieces up to fitter or we wouldn't consider it. Franklin/Well I mean somebody can't build a building and hook onto the city sewer or water system without meeting our standards. Lehman/Right. Franklin/(can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 20 Franklin/So are you done with that subject? Norton/Yea. Vanderhoef/Is it still possible to TIF at a certain percent less than 1007 Franklin/Yes. Vanderhoef/And can we do that on individual properties or does have to be on the whole? Franklin/I believe you can do it on individual properties. Vanderhoef/OK. Franklin/But let me check on that for sure. Kubby/I've got another topic. Lehman/Yes. 3. (Agenda #14- Consider a resolution authorizing the mayor to sign and the city clerk to attest an agreement between MMS Consultants, Inc., of Iowa City, Iowa, and the City of Iowa City to provide consulting services for the south airport area development.) Kubby/Our potential contract with MMS for the south airport area development. And I'm looking on page 78 of the agenda of the 46 information. Karr/I'm sorry was that Item 147 Lehman/Yes. Karr/That's rain, lots of it. 14 you have a revised. Norton/Their testing the new roof. Karr/You have 14 a revision in front of you this evening, both in an item in comment and (can't hear). Kubby/I don't think what I'm asking will be in that revision. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 21 Karr/OK. Kubby/But it's good to know. I'm looking on page 78 and it's about the landscape design. And in there it says just trees, shrubs, and grass and I really would like to provide them more flexibility than that because there might be opportunities to restore some wetland prairie ifwetland prairie is found out there in the sensitive areas inventory that their going to do. There might be some wild areas that are appropriate near some real wet soil or I don't know, this area actually, if the creek goes down by this or not but if it does have the creek area be more wild so I don't want it to be limiting like that. I want them to be able to come to us with a plan that' s varied. Norton/You mean landscaping design may include? (can't hear). Kubby/Yea, I mean here it says "will include trees, shrubs and grass." And when they did the environmental assessment there may be some areas that wouldn't get in anybody's way to do something (can't hear). Champion/So how should we word that? Kubby/I don't know but I'd be willing overnight to come up with some wording that you all could tear apart tomorrow, ask staff to do that, if people are interested in that value being, because this is the place to do it, we, you know, this is what we, this is there guideline. O'Donnell/What specifically are you talking of adding? Champion/Well they might just put Prairie grass somewhere or (can't hear). Kubby/Right. Norton/There could be some suggestions that are positive ones that kind. Kubby/Right. Norton/Consideration should be given to something like that. I would wonder if archeologically are they involved here? Kubby/Well can we finish this a second and then come to that? Norton/Yea, (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 22 Kubby/Or could we ask staff to come up with some suggested wording? this conversation. They've heard Dale Helling/Yea, we can bring this up to them and see what, maybe that some of them is not accepted by (can't hear) I don't have that in front of me, so that that may be very well part of it (can't hear) specific. Make sure that those things are in (can't hear). Kubby/OK. Vanderhoef/What's the time of change here? Norton/My only question was are they taking into consideration the parking lot (can't hear) and every time we've done work in that general vicinity. Vanderhoef/Your right. Norton/We've run into something that probably some mention might be made of it. Vanderhoef/Probably needs to be done both the north and the south end. Kubby/But isn't that mentioned in all the. Lehman/I think that' s. Norton/ Lehman/I think that's a given isn't it? Kubby/Well it's not a given unless it's written down somewhere. Lehman/Oh, I think. Kubby/But it says that it has to meet our sensitive areas ordinance and that includes archeological (can't hear). Lehman/I didn't get to ask him that. Norton/That' good enough then maybe. Kubby/That's the given. Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 Apfil 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 23 Norton/That won't cover your concerns though? Lehman/No, but staff will. Kubby/Dale said he'll talk to MMS and they'll come up with some language and we'll see it from there. Lehman/Other agenda items. 4. Agenda #12- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND CITY CLERK TO ATTEST A CONTRACT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA CITY TRANSIT FACILITY METHANE ABATEMENT PROJECT. Vanderhoef/When will the IDOT reconsider the methane abatement project? Thornberry/ Kubby/Do they've said? Davidson/My impression is fight away, this was all kind of a surprise when we got ready to let the project (can't hear) so I think they'll get fight on it. We would hope to, their letting schedule, we know what that is, and we would hope they'd be on it as soon as possible. Vanderhoef/How often do they do that? Davidson/I don't know. Vanderhoef/They don't do it very often do they? Lehman/Let him see it. Davidson/We'll let you know when we know for sure but it's a matter of working it out with them with respect to the plans and specs. Vanderhoef/OK. Kubby/Should be careful how you word your plan. Lehman/Other questions about agenda items. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 24 Vanderhoef/Just one other one, which is also Item #14. We're talking about above ground fuel tanks for the public works campus and I just wondered if we have any greater risk, I know we're in soggy land down there so putting tanks underground probably is not the best but I wondered what the risk was for above ground vs. underground. Norton/Dean, what are the going to do about the storage for the storage tanks? Lehman/Airport goes above ground. Norton/Their going to be above ground? Davidson/That's fight, we need to take those tanks out within the next two weeks. Norton/So you wouldn't recommend public works put them underground then? Davidson/Oh no. Norton/Cause their not even going to (can't hear). Lehman/I don't think anybody's going under ground. Vanderhoef/Well I understand why not, but I wondered what what kind of risk there was for above ground. Davidson/There are some standards for above ground you have to follow, safety standards, and shut down, I don't have details of that, but certain areas that forbid and certain areas that have to be used and maintained so from that standpoint I think you could safe to stay on their ground. How do you, I mean that versus the underground tanks that leak and contaminate the soil and that' s their in the last few years there have been some revised standards to allow more above ground tanks because of the regents so. Vanderhoef/OK. Thanks. Norton/I have just one more quick comment on. Lehman/OK. (Agenda 5c(2)- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR APRIL 20 ON PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA AVENUE This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 25 MULTI-USE PARKING FACILITY PROJECT, DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF SAID HEARING, AND DIRECTING THE CITY ENGINEER TO PLACE SAID PLANS ON FILE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.) Norton/On Item, it's on the consent calendar. This is the plans for the setting of the public hearing for plans and specs for the so-called Iowa Avenue parking facility. Is that forever (can't hear) gonna be it's name? Lehman/I don't know but that's deleted for tomorrow. Champion/It's deleted. Norton/Oh, it's deleted, (can't hear). Are you coming up with a new name Jeff'?. Davidson/We'd be glad to name it after you Dee. Norton/No, I mean, well somebody said (can't hear) (All talking) Davidson/I believe Dee and all the legal things that Eleanor has been preparing we have called it the Iowa Avenue Multi-Use Parking Facility. If you want to make a cash contribution. Dean/Six mill would be appreciated. 6. (Agenda 3a. DARE DAY) Kubby/I thought I was going to bring it up later but it really is on the agenda so I should bring it up now. And that is the DARE proclamation. And on the last whereas is I have some problem with the wording and can't support because of that, it's a very small changes of wording that make me uncomfortable and I don't think it would be a big deal. It says "The DARE program has achieved outstanding success" (can't hear). O 'Donnell/ Kubby/We done this last year. Norton/Yea right, (can't hear). O'Donnell/What page is that? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 26 Kubby/Page #46. It says "Whereas the DARE program has achieved outstanding success, teaching positive and effective approaches", and I'd prefer that it would say "The DARE program teaches positive approaches to some of the most difficult problems." Norton/We made that change last year, yea, that's right. Champion/We have no (can't hear) problems. Kubby/Well there have been some measurements of DARE to show that it is not effective as some people think although it still maybe have positive effects and so I don't want to put that out there. Norton/ Kubby/And it doesn't really. Lehman/OK, were done, no problem. Kubby/Thank you. Lehman/OK. CDBG and Home Allocations. Norton/I forgot to ask. Who came up with the Fair Housing Proclamation? What's the origin of that? Lehman/I have no clue. Somebody came up with it fairly I'm sure. O'Donnell/Very fair. Norton/I was just curious what it's origins were? Lehman/Do you know Marian? Kubby/Lisa probably would know because they all go through Lisa, so why don't you call Lisa tomorrow. Norton/OK. Lehman/I think we've had this in the past. Norton/Oh, have we? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 27 Lehman/A lot of these are resurrected from the previous years, I don't know. Norton/I mean do we have somebody coming to accept it? Lehman/If we don't have anybody accepting it, I won't read it. Norton/Well if can't find out who originated it so hardly anybody's going to come to accept it. Lehman/We often don't know until the meeting time. Helling/That's true, there's nobody that's going to do that now. Lehman/I think this is strictly due to discrimination in housing, that's the whole idea of the proclamation. Kubby/I think it's a good reason. Lehman/OK, now. CDBG and HOME Allocations. CDBG & HOME Allocations 99-38 S2 Maurice Head/Well we are at that point in the CDBG and HOME Allocation process where the housing community development commission has made some funding recommendations to the city council. In your packet you should have those recommendations. The commission wanted an opportunity to present those recommendations to city council in order to determine if there were any concerns. The next meeting of commissioners is April 15. If there are any concerns this would give the commission an opportunity to revisit any issues you may have and make adjustments at that time. However, should you not have any issues tonight, you know the public hearing is the 20th of April. This certainly would be opportunities to make adjustments throughout the process, however, it would certainly be good for the commission to have any of your concerns as soon as possible. Norton/By the 15th, is that your date? Head/Right. So that they would have an opportunity to make those adjustments, however, again like I said the public hearing is the 20th, it does not mean that if you do not have any concerns tonight that you won't have an opportunity to express any concerns. The chair of the Housing and Community Development This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 28 Commission, Gretchen Schmuch will make the presentation of the justifications to city council so at this time I'll turn it over to Gretchen to. Lehman/Did we set this public hearing for the 20th? Head/Yes. Lehman/When did we set this? Kubby/Last week. Head/It was set last week. Lehman/Last week, good, all right. Head/So at this time I guess Gretchen would kind of go through the justifications with you and at that time if you have any questions for staff we'll ask them for you. Gretchen Sctunuch/I don't have a formal presentation, I'm mostly here just to answer questions and I'm also fortunate to have several commission members, Kathy Renquist, Bob Elliott, Dan Coleman, Bill Stewart, and Jayne Moraski here also to help and keep me on track. If everyone's had a chance to take a look at the packet, as you can see we've reviewed 26 applications, two of them dropped out and then our goal was to fund as many applicants as possible with funding that did not hurt the integrity of the project as a whole. We used the ranking sheets as last years, with a couple of modifications made based on feedback we had gotten from you earlier in the year. And of the 100 possible points our applicants raised anywhere between 53 and essentially 85 points. The two lowest ranking projects were dropped from consideration, all the others we reviewed repeatedly and came up with a justification list you have in your packet. Rather than reading through it all I'd be very glad to, unless you haven't read through it all. Address particular questions and concerns about any of the funding recommendations. Champion/The only concern I have is more of a issue that just needs clarified. The grant to the Free Lunch Program we have, is that directly to the school district or (can't hear) facilities? Schmuch/No, that's the flee lunch program that the Wesley House runs in, it's not school related, it's for homeless. Champion/OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 29 Lehman/Right. Kubby/It used to be the flee man lab, that was the kitchen, it's now separate and (can't hear). Norton/We could probably find a date for you Connie. Lehman/Other questions from council. Norton/I understand the (can't hear) I am most concerned, your still having trouble getting economic development on basically? Schmuch/We only got one, well we got two proposals this year, one which dropped out because they found funding elsewhere and that was SPDC and I don't know if that's connected to the 40 million dollars they just got (can't hear) or not. And we've been encouraging it but it just hasn't come. Norton/So you reluctantly made a little allocations for that funding in that category I see it, right. Schmuch/We were hoping for a little more to pick from. Kubby/Well I know on the ISED proposal that the rationale for the partial funding was because of the consistent request Schmuch/Yes. Kubby/And I know that in the past they have demonstrated effort to locate alternative funding but the funding they end up finding is more narrowly focused like for rural economic development and they can't find alternatives, like they looked, at least last year they looked but they couldn't find alternative funding for this particular program. Schmuch/Yea, I think this program is suppose to meet some of the gaps. The issue that we came up with for partial funding was that when we compared it to the SBDC proposal that was withdrawn it was considerably more expensive for the number of people served and we felt that this funding sort of fit more in line with what the other proposal was also offering to do. Kubby/So will they meet the same benchmark numbers with this money and find a way to do that or will they serve more people. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 30 Schmuch/You know, actually I haven't heard back from Jason on that. A lot of the extra money was toward administrative and overhead costs and we've focused more on the direct service cost in our funding. Kubby/Oh, so if they want to do the program does that mean they have to find the administrative costs (can't hear). Schmuch/I'm not sure. We'll have to ask Jason that. Vanderhoef/The community mental health center rehab., now that is a camp program and I guess my question is, is the county able to apply also for CDBG monies for that specific purpose and they just have not done it? Schmuch/I'm not sure, I think communiable health is particularly a county program it's mental health program that serves Iowa City, Johnson County and also some surrounding counties. Vanderhoef/I thought it was funded by county things (can't hear). Schmuch/Oh, it's private pay, it's Title 19, it's private insurance, it's money from county, it's money from grants, the have funding from all over the place. On state mental health dollars, they have a fairly complicated budget. But in terms of bricks and boards the kinds of places they get their money from is more for the client services and our money is going for bricks and boards not for client services portions of the programming. Vanderhoef/And what do they have available for the county (can't hear). Schmuch/I don't know what they have available, we asked them to check into Historic Preservation and some other ends and they were not able to come up with funding elsewhere and I don't know if they've talked to the county about particularly building maintenance or not. Does anyone else on the commission know that? Vanderhoef/Facility. Schmuch/Yes, they've been at the facility for a long time. Vanderhoef/(can't hear) Sctunuch/Right. Right. Kubby/On the youth leadership, were they given (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 31 SchmuclV No, that's my typo. I missed up the 23 and the 10, they were given $10,000 dollars, their most pressing needs seem to be transportation, ways to get the kids around. And. Kubby/So the grant is for $10,000. Schmuch/Right, so the grant is for $10,000. Vanderhoef/(can't hear) Schmuch/Actually I think we did it once for the Crisis Center, we gave them more so they wouldn't have to come back the next year but not too often. Norton/Were each of them asked explicitly can you live with partial allocations? Schmuch/Yes, they were asked at the funding hearings and also as part of the application. Kubby/In terms of the Evert Conner Center I know that they come before the committee, most full times have never gotten funded and I'm concerned that there's only one other accessibility program that applied and they did get partial funding for Old Brick. What was it about their program that seemed so weak in terms of criteria? Schmuch/Well actually, historically they've been funded several times for different things and even since I've been on the commission I know we funded something for rehab. and accessibility in apartments so and access stuff so. Kubby/Evert Conner was? Schmuch/Yea, we funded him a few times in the past, I thimk the concern this time was it was it was very vague what they wanted to do and we really didn't get a sense that they had talked to the business people that they wanted to work with that they had, good estimates on the costs that would be done, that it was OK with the businesses and the landlords. Kubby/Did they get that kind of feedback so they could be working on that for the next year? Schmuch/Yes. And they all can have access to the ranking sheets and why and you know they just couldn't come up to that minimum criteria that we had set. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 32 Kubby/I have one other question on the HACAP Conditional Housing, and it's really just kind of the wording of the rationale and looking at rationale letter C, "The furthers the objective of reducing public housing stock" and I know that in the minutes when I read that that A1 Axeen had kind of stated that and then it appeared here and I just wondered where that came from? Was that really come from council as a majority. Schmuch/We've sort of understood that also from the housing authority that there was an effort made to selling some of the public stock to the, to other sectors to use so we thought this was a good opportunity since it leverages so much money to still keep it as low income housing without having to tap into vouchers in Section H, so that's our under. Vanderhoef/(cant hear) Objective of HUD, well. Schmucbd Yea. Vanderhoef/But I 'm not sure on that. Kubby/That's a question you mean? Vanderhoef/Yea, That was (can't hear). Schmuch/Yea, that's been our understanding. Kubby/ Norton/You used the revised form, last year you spend quite a bit of time after the evaluations last spring revising the forms? Schmuch/Yea. Norton/I know we made a few comments, are your happy with the new forms? Schmuch/Pretty much yes, now it will look a little differently with city steps coming up again, we might have some different priorities, but I think it was a pretty fair process, I think we're pretty internally consistent and it really got it the goals and the projects that we most wanted to fund basically, as Bob always said, "Housing for the Homeless" and "Food for people who can't afford it" and more basic bread and butter needs. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 33 Kubby/Just for some feedback there was someone at the process, observing the process who had been on the committee in previous years, said it was so organized, it went so smoothly, it was beautiful. Schmuch/Wow. Thanks. Vanderhoef/I appreciated the changes on the criteria outline. Schmuch/Well good, I'm glad that. Vanderhoef/And I appreciate it. Lehman/I have a question on this Benton Street Park. There's a map included in the document. Kubby/On page 1. Lehman/It's on page 121 in this book. Norton/It's so nice to all be able to turn to the same page. Lehman/The darkened section of that map I think is the proposed land to be purchased, is there access to that park left? Vanderhoef/Access? Letunan/Yea, public access to it. Schmuch/It goes right out to the Benton Street, yes I believe so. Kubby/Well you can't get it to by (can't hear). Lehman/Well there isn't any sidewalk that goes to it either. There isn't anything goes to that. That's you know, right next to Miller Avenue, there's no sidewalk, it's in the middle of a huge hill, I just wanted how their going to, you know, I, they need parking lot, I have no problem with that. My only concern is how are we going to make that a park? Whose going to use her? Vanderhoef/There had, years ago there had been some conversation about some access kinds of things. Lehman/Well I'm aware of all of that but I don't know how their going to get to it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 34 Kubby/Well it's a continuing conversation, we can't just. Vanderhoef/Well the conversation going through an area to the west of there. Kubby/But we can't just say yes, we'll give you the CDBG monies and we'll get money from the park-line acquisitions from parks and rec. and. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-42 SIDE 1 Kubby/Maybe we should ask our Parks and Rec. because they've been involved in this whole thing. Lehman/I can ask Terry, that's fine. Schmuch/Well it sounded like if we had given the full $215,000 they would have taken care of all of that, but our priority was just to get the land and the window that they had. Lehman/And I think it's a tremendous need for that area and I'm certainly pleased to see it, I just wonder how are you going to get to it? Kubby/It was even in 1984 when I was on (can't hear) so it's long a time. Vanderhoef/Long time (can't hear). Norton/I'm a little surprised to see this in this particular list thought I guess I'm, I may rethink that, I was kind (can't hear) of acquisition of park for this particular pot of money, maybe it is I guess. Kubby/Cause it's part of the quality of the neighborhood and it's a low income neighborhood. Norton/Well, partially yea. Lehman/Yea, but I also think there's such an extreme need in that area, I mean there's more so than most parts of town there just isn't any parks over there. Vanderhoef/And this is the first opportunity we have to purchase that particular piece. Norton/I was just looking at the source of funds and I didn't realize that they went this kind of direction, but I suppose (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 35 O'Donnell/But this project was highlighted in City Steps Document (can't hear). Lehman/That's true. Kubby/When you find out answer from Terry will you fair it my way? Lehman/Yes, I will. Well, H1 have that before the hearing. OK. Vanderhoef/I have one more concern. Just the documentation that I have is probably old, but the Old Brick somehow or another I would like to see more of an assessment of the liability of that building again as far as I know it has not been done for quite a while and if it has been done was it shared so that we know that that's Iowa City Brick and that it's very soft and I don't know how worthy that building is of having additional funding. I recognize the addition, the non- historical part, of that building has more value and that the elevator might be appropriate but without a full assessment of what is coming forward in the future for that building and what it's stability is and what expectations we can have out of keeping that building standing. I'm not sure I'm ready to put money into that. Lelunan/I think they have comprehension plan. Schmuch/They have. Vanderhoef/But I haven't seen it. Lehman/No, but I think they have it. Vanderhoef/Well they allude to the fact that they have lots more needs and projects and so forth and it's like until I see a total plan and make an assessment of whether it's a worthwhile plan that. Kubby/It's doable. Vanderhoef/(can't hear) in the community. Lehman/Did you get a mailing on that? I got a mailing of about 20 some page thing on what they wanted to do and why and the cost of the whole thing. Norton/Well they had a day long. Lehman/Yes, you went to that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 36 Norton/That we participated in, some of us, and I presume there was a, all that documentation I haven't reviewed but I'm assuming that looking at the structural integrity was like A number one. Lehman/Oh yea. Norton/We ought to review that. Kubby/So maybe we could have a copy of that at public hearing when we maybe we all don't need that 20 page document but we can get it for that purpose. Vanderhoef/I would appreciate that. I'm not ready to support it until I have a little more information. Kubby/People at Old Brick love to talk about Old Brick. I'm sure they'd. Lelmnan/Oh yea. Actually give Dee the number of the person to call if you want the paper. Vanderhoef/Well since this isn't the 20th, I can tell you that I'm going to be out of town for a week so, it'll be shortly before that meeting would be the best time to contact me. Thank you. Lehman/Other questions from council. Thongberry/On the Greater Iowa City of Housing Fellowship I have a position of visiting units how many (can't hear) take? Schmuch/They are looking at purchasing units of about $60,000 and then putting up to about $10,000 in rehab into it, is that right Charlie? So. Thornberry/I'd like to know. Kubby/How many? Thornberry/Yea, the question was how many? Schmuch/Oh. Maurice Head/There are 18 units, 9 for Iowa City and 9 for Coralville in the application. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 37 Schmuch/Is this the Iowa City? Lehman/Nine. Head/Nine. Thornberry/I'm not going to support this, (can't hear) support the whole thing. That's just one thing. I don't want to take those properties off the tax (can't hear). I'd take him off the (cant hear). O'Donnell/Yea, we know. Lehman/Iowa City Housing Fellowship pays a fee in lieu of tax (can't hear) do they not? Schmuch/Right. (All talking) Kubby/And there are private organizations (can't hear). Lehman/Right. Right. Kubby/Still privately (can't hear). Schmuch/And that' s part of what leverages some of their points is the fact that they do pay things in lieu of taxes. Thornberry/Yea, it's not as much as taxes add, it's voluntary. Norton/It's voluntary, but they do it. Kubby/They should be. Thornberry/And I'm not ready to take that first step toward socialism so I'll just leave it at that. Norton/Well, depending on which houses are chosen they could be (can't hear). Letunan/This is long. Schmuch/Correct. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 38 Norton/This is also long. Lehman/Yea. Schmuch/So the money comes back to the. Lehman/It's a loan, not a grant, they pay the money back. Kubby/This is what you call a private public (can't hear). Thornberry/No, my concern's, my concern is the taking of the property. Letunan/Other comments. Kubby/Good job. Schmuch/Thank you for your time. Lehman/No really, you guys, I don't envy your work at all, this has to be a very difficult task. Schmuch/We've got a good commission. Norton/This, we have a lot more questions than this, we haven't had time to adjust it over there. Lehman/We may have more on the 20th. Schmuch/OK, let me know. Lehman/OK. Norton/ Kubby/No, people have what they need to be before the 20th so at their meeting on the 15th. Letunan/Yea, that's true. Kubby/So if you have them get them to Gretchen or to Maurice. Norton/But even after the public hearing presumably changes can be made right? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 39 Lehman/Well, Yea. Norton/That' s the point of the public heating. Lehman/OK. Senior Center Space. Senior Center Space 99-42 SI Terri Miller/We'd asked for a proposal to be put in your packet this week and. Vanderhoef/Thank you. Miller/ The purpose of which we know that you need to talk about the space allocation at the multipurpose parking facility. And our request is that you delay that decision. The commission and staff have been working on several big concerns, one of them with the 28E negotiations that will occur with the city council, the board of supervisors, the commission and staff. We feel that that will have a large impact on the ability to pay for that space. And that item plus a committee that the commission has put together to look into other types of fundraising like a foundation or to have some kind of fundraising put together so that we can raise some additional money for that space. But those kinds of things may impact the amount of money that's available to pay for it and if the decision could be delayed then we could wait until sometime in the future to make a decision about that space. I don't know if that works with your timing, 1 know that plans have to be made. The timing issues have come about so quickly, one of the things that have occurred today is that we found out that there was space on the first floor with 20 foot ceilings, and that was something that we hadn't known in the past. It became when we're looking at space, one of the big issues, is to be able to find a space with that kind of ceiling to house the band. Dean knows how important that band is to the center, yea. And when we found out about that particular space it occurred to us that maybe there could be some discussion about that space. I understand it's on the first floor but it certainly would be more conducive to some of the programming concerns that we have. So with the various issues involved that was what we are asking that the decision might be delayed for a time for some of these things. Lehman/Well I don't think that we have any, well I shouldn't say any, because obviously there are some time constraints, but I don't think we're under the gun as far as making a decision in the next week, or two weeks, or month or six weeks or whatever. I do think, and I guess I'm not prepared to make a decision personally. We have, we've got homework to do as well as you. We need to know the impacts of on our financing and the effect on the project of using part of this space This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 40 or not selling if you will. Space for condominiums, whether it would be first floor space, or second floor space or whatever and I think we've got to get those numbers, at least I do, before I'm really interested in talking about what we could do as far as space for the senior center. Is anyone here prepared to. I mean, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to ask us to wait. On the other hand. Champion/ Lehman/I do believe that if we determine at some point that it will be feasible or won't be feasible we need to let you know. I'd hate to see you folks spend a tremendous amount of time and effort on this if we're not going to approve it. So I think at any, whatever time we're able to make it at least. Obviously your talked about first floor space tonight which is not something I've heard before. Miller/Right. It's something we just found out about today. Lehman/Right. I think what we need to hear from you is what you would like. And then I think we need to hear from our Finance Director and City Manager as to what the cost is going to be. Then the 28E committee is going to have to visit with the county. There are a lot of pieces that have to come together. Miller/There are. Lehman/And I don't think we're in a position to make that sort of decision right now. Kubby/Unless there are four people who just said absolutely not and I don't think that, last time we talked we weren't in that place either. Jay Honohan/We were concerned with some of the (can't hear). Kubby/We have to talk into a mic. Lehman/We need to have you talk into a mic. Honohan/We were concerned, that we keep seeing it on the agenda and it's now in the Cedar Rapids Gazette. And we, there's a lot of things that go into this as mayor has said. For instance, the liability of selling it is, you've got to get a fair-market price for it and I'm not sure at this time there' s the demand for it. And I don't know if anybody here knows whether or not there' s a demand for this sale. Another thing is we have the space review committee working and there's going to be a lot of suggestions we expect to come out of there as far as priorities and presence space used for the center. Which could include county agencies and the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 41 city, city departments that are working in there. It's just that, it seems that this decision is months away in my opinion. And the time table, we don't really need to make the decision for the senior center or retail commercial for at least six months. That seems to us based on a schedule. And we're, we don't want to pester you people but we just get nervous when we keep seeing it on the agenda and we see it in the register some space talk and things like that. Lehman/Eleanor has something. Dilkes/I just want to make sure we're clear. We're talking now about first floor space and there's space to the south of the clock tower, and there's space noah of the clock tower. The space to the south of the clock tower is the space that we have been negotiating with The Cottage for replacement space, so that space is not. I believe the council's on board with that, it's not. Lehman/That's fight. Davidson/There are other spaces in that facility also that might be an option. Thornberry/Well maybe not adjacent to but in the facility someplace perhaps. Champion/We really, I mean (can't hear). Vanderhoef/One of the things though. Champion/(can't hear). Norton/I'm having trouble hearing from you people. Champion/Am I mumbling. Norton/Yes, your mumbling. Lehman/Yea, a little bit. Vanderhoef/Jay, the only thing I heard you say was that the decision maybe wouldn't have to make for six months. If, now I'm saying, if there were a walkway place between the two structures that decision would have to be made also. Honohan/We see that as a different proposition, the Senior Center Commission does at least. Without being presumptuous, we see that as a given. We want some sort of connection. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 42 Lehman/That is pretty presumptuous. Honohan/It is presumptuous. But we need something for the people who use the Senior Center. We're assuming, there's been discussion about the what kind of parking arrangements would be made for the Senior Center. But we feel some connection across that alley. Now maybe it might be underground, that has been mentioned. And it might be a sky walk, but there's almost, again I'm being presumptuous, but I see that as something that is essential. And that your going to have to decide soon, I would agree, but the space is what we're worried about, getting hard and fast decisions before any of us know really what' s going to be there whenever done. Kubby/It would be cheaper to tear up a bunch of concrete and put heating elements underneath it to make sure there safe access. Thornberry/I don't know ifthat's. Norton/Is it true, is it true Ernie? Kubby/Heated. Norton/The timing, for example, we're setting a public hearing on plans and specs, fight. Lehman/Right. Norton/No, no we're not. All talking saying no. Dilkes/That's been delayed. Norton/I'm sorry, you've moved that one. Davidson/I was going to point out however that the plans and specs that are being prepared, we have not been directed by you to add the overhead walkway so we have not done that. (All talking) Norton/That's what I was going to say, that preliminary (can't hear) ought to be considered pretty (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 43 (All talking) Lehman/Yea, but let me ask a question. That does not present a huge problem when it comes to building that project. Davidson/(can't hear) Lehman/Add on that we would decide to add on. But I don't think that's something that has to be in the plans and specs when we have the public hearing. Norton/Wouldn't it be nice to have the option, I mean to have that alternative in front of us? Davidson/Well the only issue you run into that is that once we bid the project and we have a contractor, if at that point then you want to add if we have the competitive part of it has gone away. (All talking). Norton/Right off the bat. Davidson/Once again Dee, all you need to do is the majority of you need to direct us to do that. Vanderhoef/ Kubby/Now the problem is. Davidson/The estimated expense is $150,000. Norton/For the, no I meant just to add it into the plans, how much is that, that's not going to be? Thornberry/Going to build that facility between the senior center and the ramp then your, can't have the bridge go to nowhere. You've got to have it going to somewhere. Norton/I understand that. Thornberry/So what your doing is basically reserving that space for the senior center. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 44 Champion/No, no, no. (People saying no). Thornberry/OK, all fight, I'm just saying. (All talking). Champion/Because people who park in the ramp are able to walk into the Senior Center without going outside, that's all it is. Kubby/It may be reducing the square footage and having that walkway, and it creates complications. Lehman/Yea, but what Dee said, and I think it's correct. If it's an alternative, you can you can take it or leave it. You can build it or you don't have to build it so what your saying Dee if we don't take it, if we don't take it, we don't have to build it. We bid it both ways. Norton/It's wise to get it in there now to see (can't hear). Lehman/I think that would be smart. Norton/In some ways, presuming or presumptioning I don't know which, but if that possibility is real we ought to see what the costs are realistic, both would only come out of incorporating the original plan to some extent as well. Kubby/Except that. Vanderhoef/That makes it competitive on all the bids. Kubby/Except when we accept the bid, we have to accept it with or without the alternate and if we are not ready to make that decision yet. If we accept it without the alternate can we add it back in later? Dilkes/Well I think you would add it back in but not on any terms differently than what we're talking about doing if we don't include it in as an alternate at all. Kubby/But it's not a problem to have it as an altemate, reject the alternate and then add it in later, there's no legal problems with that? Champiord No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 45 Dilkes/But there two different, but there different issues. You, if you put it in as alternate, and you accept, and you don't accept the alternate then we're done with that. Lehman/Right. Dilkes/And then we're negotiating with the contractor on putting an addition to the project. We're in the first scenario again. Kubby/You're saying yes, you can do both of those. Lehman/But you won't be able to accept it after you decline it. (All talking). Kubby/And we can make a change order. Dilkes/If your not accepting an alternate down the road, if you don't accept it, it's done and you negotiate a change in it. Thornberry/All you would find out on that, say you got the two bids, one from, one without, you reject the one with and go with the one without. Then you decide to build it later one. Kubby/You don't do that. Thornberry/Then you'll know about how much more your spending if you add them, then you would have had you (can't hear). Kubby/My question was is that legal to do and the answer is yes. Thornberry/No, you can't go back and take the alternate. Norton/No, no. (All talking) Lehman/But you can add it on. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 46 Norton/I think we ought to have it in the. Champion/Well I think we should too. O'Donnell/I do too. Champion/I think to build that ramp for hooking up the Senior Center. Lehman/Do it. I think there' s. Champion/Not to put a ramp. (All talking). Thornberry/Where would the ramp go? Norton/Well that's up to them to decide. Thornberry/Would it go to that retail space or would it go to the parking garage? Champion/It would go to the parking garage. (All talking). Lehman/Well that's a problem for the architects and whatever to figure out. (All talking). Norton/I think they need to think about, he/she needs to think about where it goes because (can't hear). (All talking). Davidson/Let me talk to Neumann-Monson tomorrow, let me talk to Neumann-Monson tomorrow and see if that's a big issue. I've seen the correspondence as well from the Senior Center that as Jay indicated. They would like to have the connection even if they didn't have any space. Champion/Right. Davidson/Let me see if from the architects perspective that' s a question we need to have answered immediately or not. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 47 Honohan/I've already talked to Tim at the architects office, ifI surprise you, and they think they could do it. Davidson/Oh, they've told us they could do it, that's not the question. Dilkes/You need to know, the design fees will go up because that is specifically excluded from the contract with Neumann-Monson. The design of that. Lehman/I think we probably know that. We got to pay for it. The only thing I can foresee, and I don't know that this is even a remote possibility. If the city were to find themselves in a situation where we were able to market part of that property, we would then need to make a decision to move forward or not. I don't see us being in that position fight now, I mean I think we're in a kind of a holding pattern and we can take some time to look at this and figure out the cost and the financing and give you folks time to look at it. And I think it's a rather remote chance but if we were to find ourselves we might have to speed it up. Norton/Ernie are we at all in a sticky position at all from producing under city offices additional commercial space? Is that what is in competition from the private sector in a certain way for space? Lehman/Not if we sub. Which is what we're talking about doing. Norton/Well but your selling space as a private enterprises sell space too, right? Lehman/Well that's true. Kubby/Maybe it would help with, but I mean, this would be part of that downtown survey that isn't happening but the rents, even though there's space open, rents don't seem to be going down and that this might make some changes in the dynamics of downtown that would help all of downtown fill up. Norton/Well I, I'm not sure about how I feel about this but I get kind of nervous. For example, in principal if we went far enough with thing, pfivate enterprise could have under taken the build parking structure. Champion/Of course they could have. Norton/Right, and sell out enough of the commercial space to make it worth rent and sell off the parking spaces, or rent them out or permit them out or whatever and I trust This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 48 that's not viable or else, top viable to the private sector because there's no money in it, is that? Lehman/Well obviously the parking ramp is paid for by parking revenue but it requires other rent to help pay for this one because it isn't going to pay for itself. So the private sector is not going to go to rent, I don't think cause I don't think the average person is going to pay 80 cents an hour to park in a private ramp when they park in a city ramp for 50 cents. Kubby/Traditionally the city has as part of the downtown policy has said we will take care of parking downtown. In the tradeoff we are not allowing individual business have their own surface lots. Lehman/We don't even allow them. Kubby/So that really, I mean, our zoning code. Davidson/According to the zoning ordinance. Kubby/And so that's why this is our rule. Davidson/According to the zoning ordinance a private entity cam~ot build parking ramps downtown. Norton/Now, but this is the first time that we're incorporating 26,000 square feet of commercial or something like that. And I was just wondering if I were a downtown space merchant, I'd say what's going on? Davidson/And that decision Dee as you recall (can't hear). Norton/I'm not (can't hear) processing it I guess, put it that way. Davidson/That decision Dee was based on a decision we made that we wanted to make this fit into downtown better and the way to make it to fit it into downtown better is to build some commercial space similar to the scale of the buildings that are in downtown so that when you walk by at the street level, it's more like a downtown building than a parking structure. Norton/I understand yea it's a. O'Donnell/It's a very good point though Dee. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 49 Lehman/Well that's something we're going to have to address, we're going to have to be able to justify what we're doing. Norton/Well, I mean, we'd better justify it sooner rather than later. Davidson/Well I think. Letunan/We have. Champion/I think we have. Davidson/I think one way to justify it also is that you are creating space which will be sold and which will be a much greater amount of commercial space on the tax rolls, than is currently. Because Eastlawn is not on the tax roll. Vanderhoef/That's right. Miller/Of course if the senior center gets that space you won't have to worry about it. Norton/(can't hear) push parking out on the edges of it you understand and make, instead of 597 you'd have 800 parking spaces or something like that in principle. If we try to back off and try to get some revenue out of it to help support it I just hope. Thornberry/Have you all, has anybody contacted Jeff with those concems? Norton/No. I invented those concerns. Lehman/Well I think their legitimate but we're talking about space needed by the Senior Center now and I think the answer is yes, we will, we will give you time and give us time and hopefully we won't put it back on the agenda. Honohan/ Lehman/If we get it back on the agenda we will talk to you beforehand. If something comes up and we need to make a decision you'll know. Honohan/OK, I have one correction. Davidson/And stop reading the Gazette. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 50 Honohan/I have one correction on, I gave you an estimate because I thought it might be a good idea to on the taxes that your going to lose or possibly could lose, I did that at home one night and then I got to the office the next day and I did some revisions. And I think if your talking about the full 77,000 square feet, it might be, and I use that word deliberately, might be 15,000. I talked to the assessor, and he's never done this before. And I didn't get a real strong feeling that he knew how he would value that for tax purposes. But I think if we're talking 77,000 and I said $15,000 a year I feel real safe with that figure. Lehman/I think your pretty safe, that's all second floor you were talking to him about. Honohan/That's right. Lehman/That's considerable less value than the first floor is. Honohan/And it might even be, my original figure might be right, but it's so hard, we talked, and his typical method of doing is 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 for a three story building. Well you couldn't do that with this one. Lehman/Doesn't work. Honohan/And but I don't want you to lock onto that $10,000, I may be wrong on that. Lehman/Well I think Jay when we, when we look at this it's going to be with numbers that Don Yucuis and Steve give us as far as the total cost of the project, what it means to be able to sell or not sell. I think we'll look at those numbers, and I'm sure that taxes will be a factor but and I think your right $15,000 is probably high. Honohan/Also any information anybody wants, the council of us let us know. Lehman/OK. Honohan/We'll find it. Champion/Thank you. Miller/Well just one more item, I don't know if this will affect the architect' s drawings at all, but one of the concerns that we have is that if the ramp, if the skywalk comes over to the ramp on the second floor, that there is handicapped parking right adjacent to that so. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 51 Lehman/That's a matter of striping it after it's built, I think that has nothing to do with. Miller/All right. Lehman/All right. Honohan/Thank you very much. Lehman/We're going to take five. [Council Break] Tower Court Parking 99-42 S1 Item #5e (3)(a), JCCOG Traffic Engineer Planner: (a) No parking 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., Mon-Fri on South Side of Tower Court JeffDavidson/You have an item back on the consent calendar to approve the parking prohibition on Tower Court identical to what you considered a month or two ago. What's transpired since that time is that some residents of the street, Mrs. Branson sent the petition to you, I did a petition showing that once again there was a slight majority of people in favor of the prohibition on the side of the street that does not have it currently. Doug here can answer any questions you have of what surveying's been done and what has been proposed or not. I wanted to emphasize to you once again that when we consider these issues from the staff perspective we evaluate them with respect to safety. And if there is a safety problem, for example a fire truck won't be able to get down the street if you implement something. Then we take a very strong recommendation to you because of a safety related issue. But when there is no safety related issue we pretty much leave it up to the neighborhood, and that's why we do a survey of the neighborhood to see how they feel and to let you know how they feel. You certainly have the ability to decide on your own as you did last time that there are some litigating circumstances that you feel override one way or another, this is one where we have identified that there is no overriding safety problem so basically you can decide how you like. Champion/I read through that thing, but what was the percentage of people who wanted that? Davidson/Are you talking about the survey we did or the one the neighbors just did? Lehman/Either one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 52 Davidson/The one the neighbors just did I believe. Norton/(can't hear) current one. Davidson/The current one I believe was 62 percent in favor. Champion/OK. And the original one was? Davidson/Do you remember? Doug Ripley/The original was 62 percent and the most recent one that was done by the neighborhood, 59 percent of them signed the petition in favor. I just to point out something though, two of the folks on the current petition were also on the previous petition which was in the opposite, it was against it, just to point that out for your information. Kubby/But the percentages are lower so some other people went the other way. Lehman/Well but it's only like one percent difference. Ripley/Well one was a neighborhood survey so we don't know if they surveyed everybody, went door to door or if they just hit certain people, so I guess I can't answer that. Norton/Well it also was residents versus. Vanderhoef/ Champion/Two of the owners of the rental properties signed the petition. (can't hear). Kubby/We explained that, do we when we do our (can't hear) survey do we send them to the owners and the residents? Ripley/We send them to the residents so if it is, ifthere's four people living in one residence, they get it. If it's an owner they get it if it's a renter, the renter gets it. We basically send it to an address. Champion/What is that percentage dropped out because of (can't hear). Davidson/They weren't counted in the first. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 53 Champion/No, they were counted in the neighborhood one though. Kubby/There's one owner that signed three times on. Ripley/Yea, one owner, one owner owns multiple properties on this street so. Vanderhoef/ Norton/Well if Fredine hit residence's if she went to residence's didn't she? Ripley/Well apparently she also did owners also. Norton/She went to the owners out right, just go to the bodies that live there, what she get 59 percent there? Ripley/According to her letter, the residents were 17, the total was actually 24. Champion/The whole 13 residents. Ripley/So she has already taken out the owners of the, there were seven other rental units that were taken out. O'Donnell/So we have two surveys and both favor. Norton/Both they want to take it off. Ripley/Well actually we have one survey and two petitions. The survey. Lehman/(can't hear) Came up with about the same results. Ripley/Yes. O'Donnell/Well that's how we did it, (can't hear) the question. Lehman/All fight, I think, hasn't our policy been if the neighbors want to do it we go along with. Norton/Majority, I think the last time. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 54 Vanderhoef/I think it's positive that the owners of rental properties are saying yes, take the parking off. They are not concerned about parking for multiple's within their residence. Lehn~an/I would think the Opposite would be true. Vanderhoef/I think that's positive. Kubby/Why, explain that. Vanderhoef/I, it's positive because they are saying to me at least that they have enough off-street parking to handle their rental' s. Kubby/But the people who actually live there and have to park there are going to say other wise. Vanderhoef/But they will change maybe annually and so the owners say they won't. Kubby/I think there's, well, I mean there's a lot of community long-term community connections here that are also part of this petition that may or may not change how someone may choose to side or not side. Lehman/The only problem I have is I really feel, I see a street with no parking on one side, now we have a street with no parking on both sides, it's three blocks long or whatever, it sits there all day without any cars on it, seems like tremendous waste. Kubby/Well and where do people park, the people who are currently parking on the street, let's say some of them do find space on site, or off-street parking, where are those people going to go? Tower Court is kind of isolated, people are going to have to park pretty far away, I mean there was a request during the First Avenue dis, or the Northeast District Plan discussion that if your going to take parking off First Avenue your obligated to provide parking, and a few council members were shaking their heads, I mean that's to be discussed. (All talking) Kubby/But it's an issue, it's an issue that's out there. O'Donnell/That was incorrect though, we weren't providing parking for First Avenue, or I certainly wasn't, I was talking about providing access to the park. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 55 Lehman/The question that we have here, are we going to accept, if the majority of the residents want parking removed, are we going to accept their recommendation? Norton/It seems silly we survey them and now deny them. I'm willing to go with the first survey because the second one was privately done, you don't know the details of that, their arm might have been twisted for all we know. Davidson/Yea, as Doug indicated, this most recent thing you have is a petition which is very much different, I mean you can fill it out anonymously and send it back to us, and a petition means somebody went to your door and asked you to sign something. Kubby/Yea, I mean I guess, it may seem very bureaucratic, but I prefer after there has been an attempt to get the neighbors together to talk and that never happened, so at least resurvey so that all the residents have an opportunity to. Norton/You mean fill out another one now? Kubby/Yea. O'Donnell/I think that's overkill on that one. Thornberry/We've done this once. Kubby/Well then I guess I at this point, I'm not for this, so I'd like to take this as a separate item on the consent calendar (can't hear). Champion/I'm also not for it, I would appreciate if we took it off the consent calendar and put it on as a separate issue. Norton/I'm not quite sure what's your point now? Champion/I'm just not willing to do that, I think there are people that live there and it's going to be a major inconvenience to. And I don't think 59 percent is an overwhelming majority, say 60 percent (can't hear). Norton/Well then, but your not. Kubby/Well the real question is will people be willing to take this as a separate item so we can vote separately on this issue tomorrow night. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 56 Letunan/Oh, I don't have a problem with doing it separately. I mean as a courtesy to you folks, if you want to do it separately, I don't have a problem with that. I guess we have apparently in the past, we pretty much said that you gotta majority of the neighbors will do what they want to do. Champion/Well I'm sure that a majority of my neighbors on Sununit Street (can't hear). Lehman/That's a little different story. Kubby/This only works if it's an unsafe issue that the majority rules. O'Donnell/I've talked to several people (can't hear) and their concern is people pulling up and parking, taking the bicycle out of the car and leaving for eight hours to go to work. Champion/ O'Donnell/That's, what's wrong? Kubby/It happens all over the city. Lehman/All right, tomorrow night, we're going to take it out of the consent calendar, vote on the consent calendar. Take it up as a separate issue. Kubby/I assume there might be people pro and con who might want to speak to us then they don't speak during public discussion, then we've already voted on this. Lehman/That's fine, I guess. (All talking) Letunan/I guess my position is really if we have chosen to use this system before and the other majority then I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference who comes to talk. Kubby/I mean, I don't know that anyone will, I just know (can't hear). (All talking). Norton/I mean if you've got 60 percent that want to take it off, let's take it off and then let the neighbors pound on them until they get a different vote. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 57 Lehman/Then they'll come back and put it on, OK, that's enough. Thanks guys. Transit Route Study 99-42 S1 Norton/We didn't have anything to read about this did we? Lehman/No. Joe Fowler/No, we killed you with reading last time so. Basically what happened last time was we came in with everything in writing and everybody was a little confused as of to what we were trying to do so, went back and put together some pictures and put together some numbers that you had requested so. At this point I'm going to step out of the way and let Ron and Chris go through the maps that they prepared and the numbers that they got for you and then afterwards or during any questions we'll be willing to take so. Ron Logsden/Well we have this. What we have here is of I think 11 different maps showing what we have presently in certain areas of town and then we have an overlay that we'll put down, the yellow part of the overlay shows the areas that are basically will not be served under the proposed changes. Trying to highlight a little bit better what the differences are. And as this one states, it's a peak hour, south side. Fowler/The red is the current Lakeside route, and blue the current Broadway, and green the current mall route that we have at this time. Thornberry/I can't see the difference in the colors. Norton/Can't see the difference of the colors, I know it, not easy. Lehman/This is what we have right now? Logsden/This is what we presently have. O'Donnell/This the coverage we currently have. Lehman/And how are we proposing to change this? Logsden/OK the blue line here, or purple actually coming off the red is where we would run the Lakeside route to run it all the way down to Southgate, then we would cover the Boyrum Street area that's not presently, that is presently served by the Lakeside using the Broadway route, the yellow parts here are areas that would not have service. The majority of them have a bus fairly close to where they This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 58 presently have service but there are some areas that will be without a bus running fight along that street anyway. Kubby/So that most people would have to walk from residences a couple three blocks. Logsden/Yes. Norton/ Kubby/That's still pretty good. Logsden/Right now this is the highway so we have no, yea, we have no service, we don't pick anybody in here anyway so actually it's a little deceiving because we have no stops along the highway and this is. Kubby/But then you've got the. Vanderhoef/Highway 6. Logsden/Yes it is. Kubby/Pick up (can't hear). Norton/ Kubby/Southgate which is important pickup. Norton/You can't do it by going over the changes, what were the changes by taking, say a particular route. Cause we read it in text but I'm having trouble seeing it now. Take the red one and put it up there. LogsdeW The red one is staying the same all the way down present Lakeside. Right now what we did was when they changed Waterfront Drive, we moved over to Boyrum, before we didn't even serve Boyrum. So we eliminated some of the service we had going down on Gilbert gtreet and we've had a lot of people who said they used to go to Aldi's, they used to go to areas along Gilbert Street, we had some Goodwill clients who work at Country Kitchen, now they have to get off over on Boyrum. It's a little less convenient and there' s some other case workers we're a little worried about them getting over there. So we tried to with the extension of Southgate here, we tried to run a bus down here but we found that Boyrum because of Goodwill, MCI, NCS and some of those places along there and the HyVee it's worked out pretty well so we didn't want to lose service that's This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 59 why we decided to change the Broadway. The Broadway is one of our tightest routes as far as driver's ability to keep on schedule and it's also one of those routes that has one of our highest riderships of persons who are assisted by wheel chairs so we've tried to change the Broadway a little bit so it's doable as far as keeping on schedule. So we've tried to accomplish a couple things and still serving the Boyrum area but yet eliminating some of the places where the bus takes up a lot of time. You know some of the areas we're serving here there's not, we don't get a lot of riders in this area. A lot of them that we do have are going along Gilbert Court and we're still a block from there. Norton/Your riding up Southgate now right, so you get hilltop. Do you know where it is? Logsden/We will yes. And that was eliminated when we had to change the routes before. Norton/And it's coming back now. Logsden/Yes. And we've had several residents call and say that their thankful that we're looking at doing that because, one lady said she's taken to riding SEATS now because of that, and she would be able to ride the bus again. And we tried to, we had some down here some duplication of routes and we've tried to eliminate that by running if you can see the Lakeside going down, up and around and then back down. Norton/And the other ones on Bums? Logsden/It's a, turns on Bums yes. Norton/Hollywood and Bums right? Logsden/Right, we'd have service on our cross park now. Norton/(can't hear) So we can have a fair walk either way right. Logsden/In here. Norton/Yea. Logsden/Yes. Yes. Vanderhoef/So they could pick it up on either side. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 60 Logsden/Either or all four sides or actually three of the sides are served. Vanderhoef/So, and it still isn't over three blocks from (can't hear). Norton/About three. Logsden/About three any direction from the center. Kubby/And when we build (can't hear). Logsden/And again this is the proposal for peak hour and off-peak so it would not change, and this is a fairly good ridership area all day, so we are proposing the same routes during peaking and non-peak. Thornberry/Do these changes result in any additions or subtractions of drivers or hours? Logsden/No change. Lehman/What is it you want from council? Logsden/What we would like to do is get your blessing. What we would like to do is to see if we're on the same what way came and asked you what change you would like us to make in the routes and you basically said give us. Kubby/Give us a few place where services is being taken away that wasn't very easy for people to use but they'd have to walk a long way, that we might not focus on those areas (can't hear). Logsden/This one's one of the easier to decide on. I think it's less controversial than some of the others so. Norton/Yea, you have some coming up that are going to be. Logsden/Right. Lehman/This one, are we. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 61 Logsden/Again we think it helps because we're by making some of these changes we ease a little bit of the time constraints on the Lakeside and the Broadway both so I think that's the good side of that. Norton/Having said what we say, what would be next now with this, for example, suppose everything were blessed in the way we did now. What do you do next? Logsden/Public heating. Norton/OK. Kubby/We talked about a public information meeting first to get, to let people know what it is they'd be coming to the public heating. Logsden/What we would do and what we have thought about doing anyway is to put many copies of each map and how it would change on each individual bus so that way the people can get a chance to see what we have presently and what we're proposing on that particular route so they can be informed and we also have some people calling and wanting the copies of the written out material. But we could sure have whatever format to get the word out to people. Kubby/Well the problem with just having that route on the bus is that people don't see that they might, they might see from that they lose something and not understand that they gain something from another routes changes. And so that's the danger of doing it route by route. Fowler/That's why these maps are like sections of the town rather than one and that would be the same thing that we would do. And what we had intended to do would be to have a public meeting away from the council forum. To accept public input, get information, compile that and return that to council the night that we would have a public hearing to do any changes. And the public hearing to do changes is required by the federal law so that would. Kubby/Do we have (cant hear). Fowler/When we get through tonight we will. Thornberry/Will any of these changes result in moving any of the structures that people wait in? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 62 Logsden/Yes, there's a couple, not too many. On Broadway Street I believe we'd be running in the opposite direction so that would be moved to the other side of the street. Thornberry/Other side of the street. Now do these a cement. Logsden/Yea, there's a pad. We do have a grant for some new shelters so it may involve putting some of those and using some of that grant money for the shelters and the pads also for those so I think we have enough extra built in that we could probably pay for some of the extra pads. This is another peak hour. This has got, let's pick up the plastic, show what we. CHANGE REEL TO SIDE TWO 99-42 Logsden/The red here is the Plainview Route that comes by the hospital on the north side, south side of the hospital. Drops down here on Sunset and goes around the loops on off Mormon Trek, Westwinds Drive and back in on Melrose and back by the hospital. That route is not going to change under a proposal. And you got the blue is the Westwinds route, presently it comes, drops down, comes out on Melrose, drops down on Emerald, it's kind of different because when we changed this a couple years some people along Denbigh had service inbound-outbound so in the morning we picked them up after coming to Westwinds or Pheasant Ridge I should say, and inbound but anyway we do a loop around here, come back and come up to Westwinds and then into Bartelt Road, Mormon Trek again back to Melrose down and then back in. Under our proposal were going to change that and I'll just go over that route right now. Basically what we would do is run it from downtown rather than drop down here onto Emerald Street, we'd run all the way out to Westwinds Drive and then and drop it down and. Kubby/I'm confused. Logsden/I'm confused, yea, I'm getting conf., from this angle I can't see, go ahead Chris. Chris O'Brien/For the Westwinds once it gets to the comer of Westwinds and Melrose, proceed down the Westwinds, turn down past Pheasant Ridge like it currently does but it would be coming from the opposite direction. It used to come from this way, now it will be coming this way, it will come down past Pheasant Ridge to the intersection of Mormon Trek and Bartelt Road, it used to turn left. Norton/Which one are you following the red now or the blue? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 63 O'Brien/This is just for areas of service, we didn't, I didn't want to get to many lines on there, have seven different lines representing the route so. Once it got to the intersection of Mormon Trek and Bartelt it would take a right versus a left and proceed south. Until it got to Benton Street and then it turn and go east bound on Benton, let's see, (can't hear). OK it would proceed all the way down to Sunset, or to Denbigh, go Denbigh to Sunset because we didn't want to lose that service on Denbigh that had been asked for. Kubby/And it's used a lot, people ask for it? O'Brien/Yea, we did get a lot of calls on it when they found out we were initially proposing to get rid of that service, we were originally plan to come straight by this way too but as far as time constraints we added that back in we were planning on cutting the Westwinds down to a 30-minute route initially but in order to serve that we made it a 45 again. After it went through Denbigh it would come along Sunset again, head westbound on Benton until it got to Westgate, which was this one right here. Turn on Westgate and then head back in on Melrose, past the hospital and then. The only area losing service that used to serve is Emerald that will no longer be in service. Kubby/That is really high density housing of a population of people who tend to fide, isn't it, Emerald? O'Brien/But the parking lots all connect to both sides pretty much so. Fowler/So they can walk through. (All talking) O'Brien/Really tight. Kubby/Both sides. O'Brien/Yea. Kubby/OK, I thought that yellow line meant it was totally. O'Brien/It just won't be going down Emerald. Fowler/We won't go down Emerald. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 64 O'Brien/This side of Emerald does not have any housing. Houses back to that so they don't have any houses. We just added that in about a year and a half ago thinking that we'd get a lot more ridership than we have, but with the timing of the buses we end up having everybody come up here and catch the Plainview anyway because it's more of a direct route and then they outbound and they take the Westwinds and they'd be here, so they really wouldn't be waiting outside in the cold, and the parking lots do connect and so it's not much of a walk so we thought it would be a lot better than it was and we don't know until you try, and it didn't really work that well so we decided it would be better to keep the route on time and cut that out. Norton/What is the nature of the service to people living on Teg and along in here, I guess, is this Teg? Now is that about what it was? Fowler/Yea, now that's what it is right now. There would be no change in that area. Norton/You were on Denbigh before and your going to stay there right? Fowler/Right. Norton/So if you took Denbigh out some people could be quite a ways. Fowler/Yea, basically on this map, what you do is you lose service on Emerald, everybody else would still have basically service that they have now only it might go a different direction at a little bit different time and you add the Hunters Run, Southwest Estates and the Walden area, this would be another route that we'd come in, and it would be combined then with the tripper bus that we go to West High once in the morning and once in the afternoon. Kubby/So will you repeat again about there's a lot of people on Westwinds who are concerned, or at least were concerned about losing bus service. Fowler/No. No, they won't lose, they will stay the same. Westwinds and Pheasant Ridge would basically stay the same through Pheasant Ridge you have the bus going the opposite direction than you currently do. But it would still be the same amount of service just a little bit different, a little bit different, a little bit different timing through that area. Kubby/Now let me add a whole new (can't hear), I know when we deleted Plainview we kind of did a trial thing and we told people use it or lose it and they used it enough that we said your going to keep it. Is, would that be a good idea to do this west? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 65 Norton/Hunters Run. Fowler/That would be fine to do that. Our neighborhood survey came back with you know an overwhelming response that they want it. I think it's anything, you put it out there and see if they use it. Kubby/Will that screw us up on the end, what's the other end of that route so if we make changes to the other end of the route? Fowler/No, that just loops. Vanderhoef/Loops up to the high school? Fowler/Well, it goes here, University Hospital, downtown. Kubby/ Norton/Losing Emerald, your losing one side of Emerald? Champion/Right. Kubby/Right, but they have an option that's very feasible. Lehman/Walk across the parking lot and they've got it. Kubby/That sound like (can't hear). Vanderhoef/(can't hear) and then some other people in other areas. Fowler/Sure. O'Brien/Now this is for the east side of town. Our Rochester, Court Hill and Towncrest routes and then also the downtown shuttle is on also. The only, this is for the peak hour I should say just so you know ahead of time. The only significant change, actually it's the only change is the extension of the 7th Avenue route. Which would proceed along Muscatine to First Avenue, go by the HyVee, which is there I believe is a. man/Walmart. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 66 O'Brien/Walgreens. Right and then go down to Friendship and back in and it eliminates the Fourth Avenue, D Street, and Third Avenue, a portion of it but it does extend down past the HyVee. Everything else will remain the same. Kubby/You know, that makes sense to do that. I know all these older people who live in that area who are not peak times, they take SEATS now cause they can't get to Court or to Towncrest. And they would use SEATS all the time now. Norton/Your neighbors you mean. Kubby/Yea. Fowler/Well that's why we're here. So that you know we can get your input and if there are changes on here that you don't want to see go forward, this is the time and then we'll change them before we take them before we take them to the public hearing. Kubby/But going past HyVee is a smart thing. Lehman/Oh yea. Kubby/So, I'm really for. Champion/But (can't hear). Norton/Does it have? Vanderhoef/They still are not walking three blocks to catch it at one end or the other. Norton/Yea, you couldn't cut back in so there going right up to clear up to Friendship, but in other words go past the HyVee and make a left quickly. Fowler/We could take. O'Brien/We could take I guess, I don't know what. Fowler/Well (can't hear) then your going to have to make you know another turn to get back over to Friendship later but. Kubby/But your doing that now. Fowler/Yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 67 Kubby/To keep it on time on Seventh Avenue. Fowler/Yea. Norton/This way and then back in here and over, right? Fowler/Yes. Kubby/That would help out some people. Fowler/OK. Vanderhoef/What about the other people? Lehman/Well it helps some people and some people it doesn't help. Kubby/Well they don't have that service now on Friendship. And they can go up to Friendship, they still would have shorter to walk, they actually it's a nice middle ground that allows more people to have. Norton/Seems to me that you might want to stay off First Avenue any longer than you need to. Thornberry/Cause traffic calming. Norton/What? Thornberry/That's traffic calming. Norton/Well I don't know, it just seems to me a possibility to cut in there I don't know what it is though. Vanderhoef/If you do what I see that this offers is it sort of splits the difference between the Friendship route up above and this lower route. Norton/Yea, but it's just a matter of switching this, changing that line to this one, isn't it? See this would be about the same as what, well there must be some reason you had it the way it is now, jogging through that area where people (can't hear). Kubby/Well it's to make a quicker route to make fewer turns. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 68 Fowler/Yea, well we go up further we were just looking for a more direct route out and back in. Kubby/But if the time is able to go down but I think that, there are a lot of older people and a lot of people with disabilities that have a hard time getting to Towncrest. Norton/Well presumably. Kubby/And since they don't have anything the day anyway we can accomplish that on peak times (can't hear). Norton/Of course. Vanderhoef/The ridership right now in that, do you have a (can't hear). Fowler/Do you want per hour or per trip? Per hour of service that we put out there which would be two trips is 11.83 so 5 people for each half hour that it's out, which is what this takes us thirty minutes. Norton/This would also keep your buses on routes that are plowed more properly isn't it? Fowler/That's not a problem, the street department does an excellent job anytime they know there's a bus route there's not a problem with snow removal. (All talking). Vanderhoef/Some people may be disappointed. Thornberry/Too bad they don't have a bus route. Vanderhoef/If the bus route (can't hear). Lehman/Well what I hear you saying then if you wanted to you could change that? Fowler/Yes, we could either change it now, we can wait till after the public input, or we could wait till the finals. (All talking). Let's leave it as is. Vanderhoef/Let's leave it as is and see what kind of input we get. Norton/Yea, let' s see what they get proposed to us and if you get a lot of screaming. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 69 (All talking). Fowler/And in the end, in between now and when we come back to you the final time we could take a bus out and actually make the turns. Letm~an/Do it, find out what it's like. Norton/Good compromise. Kubby/If it works I think we should change it for good. Do the experiment, if it works, change the map. O'Donnell/Yea. Lehman/I think that's. Fowler/We' 11 do that yea. O'Brien/Do you want to put an X on that very back, I'll remember that. Fowler/We'll remember it. Norton/I would think it would be (can't hear) into your mind I assume. Thornberry/It looks like a lot of work has been put into. Lehman/ Fowler/OK, this is the present noah side of the shuttle, the Noah Dodge route, with the trips out to ACT, NCS, twice a day and the Manville Heights. Champion/Now that bus that goes out to ACT it runs only twice a day, I thought it went more than that. O'Brien/ACT goes three times. Fowler/Right, yea, the afternoon trip yea. Now. Kubby/Especially when you have those paa time folks who might work at odd. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 70 Thornberry/Those hours they vary, hourly, and you really can't run a public bus out there hourly, I mean there are people that start or stop every hour, it's just crazy. Kubby/Yea, three times a day is (can't hear). Lehman/OK. Thomberry/Not if your going (can't hear) everybody. Fowler/Right here. Lehman/So what are the changes Joe. O'Brien/Off peak. Fowler/Off peak, all this route would go away. No, during peak and off-peak both, out to Whiting, back in Kimball. Kubby/That's the one I have the most (can't hear). Thornberry/Yea, yea. Norton/You don't want to eat there. Thornberry/Yea. Fowler/I mean, you know, we have to be up front with you I mean there's no Forestview service midday. Kubby/That doesn't make sense either. Lehman/Well. Fowler/Well ridership, Chris. Lehman/Ridership. O'Brien/The ridership on the Manville Heights is proposed changes would start around the, after the 8:45 trip continue till the, I believe it's 2:15 trip and the which is the 9:15 trip is five people, this is an average of I believe it was September, October, November, and December. We took samples of each month and the 9:15 trip was This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 71 five, the 10:15 trip was four, the 11:15 trip was four, the 12:15 trip was five and the 1: 15 trip was six. So it's pretty low ridership up in there. Thornberry/Yea, yea. Kubby/ Thornberry/You could do that. O'Brien/And I know you commented on Forestview used to be a good generator during the day and it's new owners out there and the last couple years and we've really lost a lot of our regular riders out at Forestview. I don't know what the reason is but there seems to be a lot of people who moved out that used to be real heavy transit fiders during midday and now it's more concentrated on to and from work and the like during peak hour more than anything. Norton/So this is 9 to 3 that this is (can't hear). Fowler/Yes, that would be when service would not be in this area. And you've got the ridership numbers up here on the writing fight? O'Brien/Yea I do, let me grab. Norton/You mean we just got citizens (can't hear) and now there not going to be able to. Kubby/Not during the middle of the day. O'Brien/You got it, I gave everybody a copy of the, the three areas that you asked for, this was the one we had the most, the most reaction to was up in that area. We also had East Washington and Mt. Vemon off of Rochester Avenue then a few streets off of Court Hill. On this one, you look on the fight hand side, the far, the average per trip for each time and that's all day long from 6:00 in the morning till 9:00 at night. The boards and then a slash and then the D-boards for that whole area. And there are only three trips, the 7:00, the 8:00 and 9:00 that had more than three people. They averaged 3.4, 3.1, and 3.2 for those areas. Those are only those three times. And you can as it gets more towards the midday your 1:00, 2:00 it drops to 2.1, 1.4 then 0.8 at 3:00. Kubby/Yea. Lehman/Gees. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 72 O'Brien/0.2 at times, I mean it was. Kubby/The numbers don't justify. O'Brien/If you look at the 3:30 you start all the way across, only one person got on and one person got off in 10 days that we did it. Lehman/Well we can't run buses like that. Norton/Well this is what they're doing, that's why we're doing this. Lehman/That's fight. Kubby/Well that reduced the anxiety maybe. Norton/This is the, this is right here what we're talking about. We've had more calls than we've had riders. Vanderhoef/There was one person that worked real hard. Champion/And called all of us. Vanderhoef/And called all of us and write a letter. Norton/(can't hear) The persons wrote to anything. Kubby/Well we should make sure that that per, find out more about that person that they are qualified to use SEATS to make sure there is some alternative, some other way for them to get around. Thornberry/It'd be cheaper to buy a car. Lehman/OK. Kubby/That's true. Norton/I think (can't hear) you may get a little scream. Lehman/Well I think that you know we look at these and then I think we have to take the public' s input and I mean we kind of bless these things that their worth trying but it's gonna be after we (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 73 Norton/Your talking abom what's worth publicizing? Lehman/Yea, then we're going to have to, gonna have to do. man/There are a couple more options. Lehman/Well we think, and then we (can't hear) what the riders think. Vanderhoef/Riders (can't hear). Lehman/That's fight. Vanderhoef/It's not what they think it's what they use. Kubby/No, it's completely off, it's only man. Norton/Oh, it's only man, it's only four of you. Kubby/can't hear. Fowler/This is the west side and the only difference in your off, between this and your right here is there's no service out here midday. Lehman/All right. Norton/That's offHunter's Run (can't hear). Fowler/Yes, fight. Lehman/Makes sense. O'Brien/And because of that there's no service here, but there presently is because we're running this bus all the way out, so it's just that whole area which we don't pick anybody up, we pick everybody up at that comer anyway and there' s no stops in between so. Lehman/Right. Kubby/So instead of being able to walk across the street you have to walk two blocks to get to the thing. O'Brien/We have no stops in here. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 74 Fowled Yea. O'Brien/And one of the reasons we made this change is because we're going left onto Mormon Trek here and it's a very difficult turn, it's dangerous, so this way we'll make a right. Safer and a lot quicker. Kubby/So essentially the route is gone but no riders will be. O'Brien/Miss any, no, because there will still be a stop right there at this comer, they'll just get on at this comer instead of this comer. Kubby/OK. Vanderhoef/You know adjust the shuttle, loop for the Thursday early out and. Fowler/Yes. Yes. Norton/Have your drivers have already looked at this draft, or they have had an input to it I know, have they looked at this? Fowler/We went through a long process with all the drivers involved and we, not all, with drivers involved, a representative group of drivers took their ideas, they did maps, everybody did maps, we kind of consolidated everybody's ideas. Then it was written up in the format that you got and the drivers had it for probably two weeks prior to the time that it came to council the first time. So drivers have been aware, drivers have talked to their passengers, they've talked to us, we haven't had a lot of input from the drivers after the point that it was written and put out. We've had some but not a lot. O'Brien/OK, this is our off-peak proposal for the east side of town, it does include the shuttle because it does cover some parts that those runs also cover. The big change, the Towncrest is not going to change, it's going to be the same as it, during the peak hours and as it currently is. The big change will be in the Court Hill and the Rochester where the yellow, where it's outlined in yellow it'll be no bus that goes down those streets. These are the two places that you also asked for numbers, which is on page two of this. Now for the Rochester part, it does run all the way down East Washington and also on Mt. Vernon Drive. That's the top portion. Thornberry/Oh. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 75 O'Brien/The numbers as you can see are a lot lower than the. Lehman/Yea. O'Brien/Your looking at 1.3's and 2's, a couple .l 's but I don't like to talk about those. Lehman/That one doesn't fly does it? Kubby/No. O'Brien/And then we did come up with some comparisons to the others some substantial numbers from here as they averaged. The highest was 6.1, the lowest was 1.5 for those areas, 8:45 being the highest, it averaged 6.1 per trip boarding and 1:45 averaged 1.5 so. Kubby/Where does that (can't hear) take you now to all combining them to. O'Brien/Right, it's going to be an outbound to this way along Rochester cut across, it goes inbound on Court Street. Fowler/And you also lose this inbound portion right here. O'Brien/On Market. Fowler/On Market Street. Kubby/But people can walk two blocks. Norton/But this one right here, these folks, they've got a, that's this one you lose. O'Brien/That's the bottom one, that' s correct. Vanderhoef/And they can walk. Norton/That's Friendship isn't it? O'Brien/Peterson, to Arbor, to Friendship to (can't hear). Kubby/It's not so easy, you can't just in many cases walk over to Court. Lehman/No, there's no street (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 76 Kubby/You'd have to walk way around (can't hear). O'Brien/Right, and in this area here you have to go down, over, (can't hear). And if you get out to Arbor, even if your on these streets, you have to make a choice in this. Norton/Looks like you could have stayed on Friendship all the way, well maybe not. They've got some high density out here too don't you in this region? Thornberry/If they don't ride it, they don't ride it much. Fowler/That was where we got the best ridership numbers was out in. O'Brien/Of the three that you asked for that was largest of these. Vanderhoef/ O'Brien/Along Peterson and Shamrock. Norton/And there yea. Vanderhoef/Yea, those townhouses and stuff out there. Norton/That's what I mean yea. Kubby/Well I'm hesitant about blocking that off. What does it do to the route to, well? O'Brien/It obviously is going to add time when your straight down Court versus (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Is that a 30 minute or a? Fowler/Yea, when we went it was 27 minutes to do what and if you added this part back in you'd probably make it undoable as a 30 minute route. Lehman/In other words if you substituted that for the Court? Norton/Ran it back on that instead of straight down Court. O'Brien/Correct. Lehman/Well I mean all you can do is go around and try it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 57 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 77 Vanderhoef/Well that would (can't hear) the difference there on Court to go to either end of that route at least they have the straight walk down the street to catch it at either Peterson or. O'Brien/(can't hear) Vanderhoef/Upon on or there's the one short-cut through. O'Brien/(can't hear). Norton/Of course Friendship wouldn't add as much as this funny little loop, and this Friendship return. How is that thought? Right here. O'Brien/Just take Friendship all the way across and down. Norton/That would still. O'Brien/That would still add. Norton/(can't hear) as much as this (can't hear). O'Brien/Correct. Kubby/ Norton/That whole thing you mean? Kubby/Yea. Thornberry/Would you eliminate Friendship then for that stretch? O'Brien/This whole area up above? Thornberry/If you'd. Fowler/It'd be Court Street, we'd have to drop Court Street. Thornberry/Eliminate that. Norton/Take that, instead of this Dean just go this way. Thornberry/Yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 78 Norton/But that' s a matter of time. Thornberry/Then you'd have to have those people come walking down the other way. O'Brien/Right Dean. Vanderhoef/That one I could go either way on, and I think what I would like to hear is what public input is on that particular section right in there. Fowler/OK. Vanderhoef/Cause I'll if they speak loud and clear for one or the other and keep it a 30 minute route. Norton/What happens if you drive Friendship, what would that be? O'Brien/If we tried Friendship? Norton/All the way. O'Brien/You'd be looking at, you'd be pushing cause your going to have more stops probably in here than you are along Court. Thornberry/Stops you mean to pick up. All/Bus stops. Thomberry/That's the purpose. O'Brien/I know but I'm saying it could be just because of the way it is, it loops around and you'd have more stops than a, because of the way it loops so your probably adding 3 or 4, I'd say 4 or 5 minutes probably. Thornberry/Well we could increase the speed limit along there. Vanderhoef/On Friendship? Thornberry/45 mile per hour. Vanderhoef/That one is a, that's a narrow street and. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 79 O'Brien/It's another thing you want to add time. Vanderhoef/And to get a bus through there oncoming cars are going to look for a place to duck in, they aren't going to. Norton/You just need to have to put something off to see what the (can't hear) we're certainly going to get a rising from other there offof prairie Du Chien than we think. I don't even know if the evidence is pretty blur. Kubby/Well we'll hear it and then we'll make a decision. Norton/But here I don't know which one to present see, I guess we present the Court one and see what happens? Letmqan/Yea. Thornberry/Oh we could put. Kubby/And Towncrest is half hour off-peak times. O'Brien/Yes, as is Oakcrest. (can't hear). Kubby/Same route (can't hear). Fowler/Same route. O'Brien/From hour midday to half hour? Norton/This one's all, that one's all gone too, that yellow one. (can't hear). Kubby/But the numbers are really really low. Norton/Yea, that's right we'll lose. Vanderhoef/For the few that. Norton/Dee doesn't ride the bus enough. Vanderhoef/You are absolutely fight. Thornberry/Put red lights and sirens on those buses. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 80 Fowler/Do you have another comment? O'Brien/No, I was going to say basically what we're looking at doing is trading those two that we're cutting off on the half hour (can't hear) because of the numbers you have more people riding midday and you get more. Vanderhoef/So if I can find more. Norton/Oh, this is only off-peak too we're talking about right. I gotta stop worrying, this is only off-peak, we can't do everything to everybody that's for sure. Thornberry/No that's right. Lehman/All right. Kubby/The maps are really helpful. Champion/Yea they are. Vanderhoef/Oh they sure are. O'Brien/Yea, there a little easier to read than the last group that we did. Fowler/You can thank Chris, he did all of them. O'Brien/Your welcome. Thank you son (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Guess who didn't want to do it. O'Brien/I wanted to. Vanderhoef/I said guess who didn't want to do it. O'Brien/I didn't want to draw the lines. Thornberry/Too shaky. Lehman/Tonight (can't hear). Kubby/OK. Lots of yellows. O'Brien/Can you look up the. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 81 Thornberry/Looks like we're eliminating a route. O'Brien/What we're doing is taking our present two routes and making the one route out of it. Basically I guess you can put in down (can't hear) let you get a chance to see what we presently have and the yellow is the areas that wouldn't be served. It's, you know you've got the numbers I think, Duke had them Saturday. Vanderhoef/Yea. Norton/Could you send the thing around, show how the routes going to go because (can't hear). O'Brien/Basically it's going to come straight down over down, up, go out here to Lakeside, Bon-Aire, and it's going to go back in ttuTough Lower Muscatine to Hood. Kubby/So their people will have to walk a really long ways at night. Fowler/This is on Saturday. O'Brien/This is Saturday and at night, yes. Kubby/Yes, night. So those folks. I mean do we have ridership numbers on that segment? Norton/In here? Kubby/Yea. O'Brien/On this segment, no. We have overall, we have total ridership numbers of during nights and Saturdays who rides but we don't have. Vanderhoef/That's this. Norton/Where's Bums off (can't hear). Vanderhoef/It says Saturday on the top of it. O'Brien/That's for Saturday yes. Norton/What's the (can't hear) sheet, oh, that's the Mark Twain. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 82 O'Brien/On the nights for the entire Broadway route the numbers are 9, 9, 10,12, 6, that' s the entire route. And just the Keokuk. Fowler/We find the Lakeside a more popular route in the evening. Vanderhoef/This is evening? O'Brien/Anytime moming (can't hear). Vanderhoef/ Norton/What' s the timing here, half hour. Fowler/It's a 45 minute route (can't hear). Kubby/Yea but even compared to other routes even though Broadway' s less it's still numbers that are higher than a lot of other places. So I guess, well you don't want to have no night service, so the choice is to combine. I mean why are we having at night to combine this? Fowler/We're combining these areas at night so that we were picking up an extra bus that your doing the west side with during the day. Vanderhoef/And keeping the cost the same. Fowler/And keeping the cost the same. We're expanding the service in one part, and to do that we have to decrease it in another and that's. Kubby/My mind immediately goes to people who have more resources and fewer resources in terms of senses tracks and we're taking away night service from the lower income group in general and putting it on the west side. (can't hear). Fowler/The first time that we talked and the part I left out it's kind of like when you go through the awards and you forget to mention everybody. The one thing I forgot to mention was our work with JCCOG, and JCCOG identified this area as a high density low-income with potential you know, they did give us input and that is, this is one area that they identified as high potential ridership area. Kubby/So I hate to make that particular kind oftradeoffjust because even though we might end up having ridership on that one (can't hear) individuals have a higher tendency to be able to have more choices in their life with transportation. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 83 O'Bfien/And then that also could eliminate the half hour time so Oakcrest. I mean that's another you lcnow, I'm not saying this, we just basically took the areas that we wanted to add and tried to look at areas that were possible from the ridership numbers that service could generate more ridership, so. Vanderhoef/Let' s look at the other night ones and (can't hear). O'Brien/I thing I want to mention that I didn't mention last time and it's kind of key to this all working too is on Saturday's under the proposal right now we start service basically at 6:30 in the morning and I think you can see from your numbers we don't have very much ridership at that time. We've looked at starting close to 8, like a, we'd have a 7:45 Lakeside is when it starts to pick up. But most of the routes would start out at 8:00 rather than at 6:30. It's something we've looked at over the number of years and the drivers have already said a lot of the routes don't generate much ridership until actually 10:00 but there are some, some of the ridership around 7:45 to 8:30'ish. So the part of the proposal would be to start service at 7:45 at the Lakeside and most other routes at 8:00. Norton/Will there be any possibility of this route cutting this way a little bit as is without your making a semi-turn there on in the Kirkwood? Because this is gone right? All that' s gone if you went down this way and over, you would still give them some option in there and not lose much with these folks cause there's not a bus on the right side here. You know your going by Kirkwood maybe that' s what your doing though going by Kirkwood, but this is nights and Saturdays. Norton/Does Kirkwood generate a lot of traffic? Fowler/Yes. Norton/Oh, I see. OK? Fowled Yes, it's 45. Vanderhoef/It's 45 so it would cut through there (can't hear). O'Brien/I think it would be doable. Norton/Yea, I think you could too, you could go down I don't know what it would be, oh you have the lumps there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 84 Thornberry/How much were there? How much ridership on Kirkwood, you don't know? A lot, decent (can't hear). Norton/Kirkwood College. Fowler/Kirkwood College is. Norton/We're talking about the community college. Lehman/Yea. Norton/They pick em up here but you could still go past that and cut in sooner in order to get these folks some access, that's a low income area where I live. Thornberry/Your in the higher dollar. O'Donnell/Get an apartment. Kubby/Are there other tradeofl?s that are generalized tradeoffs you know like this one that came up that we're adding the west route and getting half hour non-peak at Towncrest and Oakcrest and the tradeoff is that night and Saturday service on certain routes will be decreased? Are there other generalized tradeoffs that would, you know help me look at kind of the big picture? Fowler/The reduction of midday service is also tied into. O'Brien/The Manville. Fowler/The Manville. Kubby/OK. O'Brien/Later starting time on Saturdays. Fowler/Then the combination of the Court Hill and the Rochester. Vanderhoef/There's a little decrease several places to add. Fowler/Yes. Vanderhoef/In the new one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 85 Kubby/And in the highest ridership routes getting more frequent service. Norton/Would you do me a favor in time that return cut down somewhere other than swinging over to Kirkwood first? Fowler/Yes. man/So would you (can't hear). Norton/Turn down to Varsity to get over there I think. Fowler/We'll go out and see which street would work. Norton/It's the only street that cuts through between Framklin and there would be Marcy. Fowler/Yea, we'll do that. Lehman/All fight. Vanderhoef/Is that the one that's all the huge dips? (All talking) Vanderhoef/And all their storm sewer. Lehman/OK. O'Brien/This is our night and Saturday. What it is is a combined Westwinds/Plainview and it combined Oakcrest and Westport to make sure we service the Walmart and get over to the Gateway 1 Center. This is our present one and also the combination to the, it's basically the Westwinds, the reason I combined the Plainview is to get out to the West side Drive area to get those people along those three loops. What we would do is basically go to a modified Plainview route during the Saturday and nights which would run all the way down Sunset, to the Highway and come in along these loops and then it would service like at Westwinds, go Westwinds Drive, come back down past Pheasant Ridge and then straight inbound. But it would eliminate ridership along Benton between Emerald and Mornaon Trek and also eliminate Westgate. Norton/Well Benton doesn't lose much cause there's hardly anything there on one side. Lehman/Park over there. Well not only with a park on the other side. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 86 Norton/Not much on the other side. Lehman/Well not really, because there's no no, I don't see a problem. Norton/(can't hear) more I suppose. Thornberry/(can't hear) will give those people privacy at... O'Brien/But Emerald like I said it connects through through. (All talking). Vanderhoef/Taken care of. Norton/Yea, that's right. Lehman/So that works doesn't it? Norton/That looks like that works. Vanderhoef/Yea. O'Brien/The Oakcrest doesn't change from what it currently is. Letunan/Right. O'Brien/Services, Oakcrest, Walmart and actually a lot more efficient than what we're doing now cause that route is real hard to keep on time presently, creates a little more time constraints. Vanderhoef/What's the dotted line? O'Brien/The dotted line's are the services we're currently provided which there's really not any service because it's along the highway. Vanderhoef/Yep. O'Brien/So it's just basically (can't hear). Here it's coming straight in this way so, actually we go outbound to Emerald down Denbigh and then loop and come back this way. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 87 Vanderhoef/It stops in that direction. Norton/What's this, how many, Oh, I see, a tag along, it's still going up through there, I see, you cut off the bottom, OK. I got it. Sounded like the bus might stay there forever. O'Brien/This is our night and Saturday for the east side of town. The Towncrest or Court Hill and Rochester which we currently have. Towncrest combines with the 7th Avenue to service this area in here. And that's what we currently do. Under the proposed we'd have a combined Court Hill, Towncrest, cover the Rochester with a deviated, the reason I didn't yellow this out is because there would still be service but that's where the deviated fixture of that we talked about last time, we covered those areas as a low ridership area. Cover the small bus, and it would go outbound on Court Street, come downtown, out to Scott Boulevard to Muscatine and inbound that way so you would lose the little branch off going to Towncrest where Village Green and Wayne Avenue where those come off and then you would lose the entire 7th Avenue poaion of it. Kubby/Yea, all of Longfellow. Norton/Oh yea, Longfellow is gone. Kubby/And is the reason that the Rochester was picked for the deviated because the numbers warranted some service but it wasn't to much that it would make the route unfeasible. O'Brien/It's combined with the noah/south routes, so it wouldn't just be the Rochester it would also be the combined with Noah Dodge and Manville. Fowler/Combined to Noah Dodge and Manville. O'Brien/All of those were. Kubby/So you have to call in. O'Brien/It would be a fixed, a set route, which we haven't established yet and that again needs public input, I need to do that but it would be on a fixed route with times at certain points but you deviate off that for somebody that would need that deviated service more than three blocks from that didn't just (can't hear) but needed. Thornberry/So the caller won't be for the deviated (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 88 Norton/The night (can't hear) coming back in (can't hear). What' s that? O'Brien/The (can't hear). The current goes out from that way. Norton/Oh, goes out on (can't hear) losing that. O'Brien/Right and then it comes inbound on Muscatine and Burlington. Norton/(can't hear) Muscatine. Vanderhoef/Or off of Court. Kubby/ Kubby Well do we have, well we don't have those kinds of number's for different sections of the route do we? O'Brien/Not for. Fowler/Not for this one. O'Brien/Not for this portion no. Kubby/ Norton/I keep forget the time questions you could do a lot more if you don't mind turning the corners but slows you down. Kubby/There' s people, cause I ride that route at night and there are a lot of, a good number of people for the number of people that are on there, which are not huge numbers by any means. Getting off in the Longfellow area. Norton/Yea, but I mean the question for example Karen, coming up this way and over you'd want to (can't hear) that straight shot this way to split the difference between here but that adds time I guess right, cutting down and over. Vanderhoef/Well it also cuts off then to the east of that. Norton/Yea but the blue route, well that' s the outbound you got the blue going in there too. (Can't hear) that goes out and around and back on the same one. O'Brien/This blue one? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 89 Norton/Yea. O'Brien/It comes outbound all the way to Peterson loop around. Norton/Yea, so you've got edge going in see your doubling up at that comer that's why I was taking the red one away from there on the way in coming over. Kubby/Well your talking an average of 30 some people a night tiding a route, not knowing where on the route (can't hear). Lehman/Well were probably just going to have to get some input from the riders, I think, they have something to shoot at and you got some you know the proposal there. Norton/That' s another one I'd like to get the time Joe if we went that way instead of. Fowler/We'll see if we can figure out another way to get that. Norton/That way instead of all. (All talking). Norton/Just cut that off a little bit put over here over, you might I don't know save time, it's terrible hard. man/Longfellow should be use their neighborhood. Kubby/Yea there' s a good way to. Thornberry/Longfellow people are not shy about (can't hear). (All talking). Lehman/OK. O'Brien/OK, this is the night and weekend, night and Saturday, I shouldn't say weekend, service for the north side. Your Manville Heights and your North Dodge, that's what it currently does and this one's pretty easy to follow because none of those routes like that, they'll all be deviated for those two routes. Norton/What do you mean by deviated again? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 90 Fowler/We're taking a smaller bus, we would have, we would determine a route through here, there would be ceaain times that would be there just like our current fixed route buses but if the bus came down Park and you lived down here more than three blocks away, you could call the bus could swing down and pick you up or if you had a special need the bus could take you and drop you off or pick you up. Noaon/So deviated means call. Vanderhoef/And what's the capacity on those small buses for that? Fowler/21. O'Brien/20-22. No (can't hear) Thornberry/I was going to say your not going to need a whole lot of capacity. O'Brien/If you look at the ridership for Saturday' s for your Manville and your Noah Dodge, not one trip averages in double digits for farther than. Fowler/No. Norton/Now how does the call system work, you have to call so much in advance or. Fowler/Correct. Noaon/How old do you have to be? Fowler/No age. Lehman/Five. Thornberry/Old enough to use the telephone. Lehman/OK. Fowler/That's it, do you want us to take this to the public or do you? Lehman/Well I think you have to have something to shoot at. Kubby/There was that one change on 7th Avenue that the bus can do it, change it before. Fowler/Right, and then the other one on the inbound on the Towncrest. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the lowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 91 Norton/Muscatine, see what you can do. Letunan/All right. Kubby/Hard task, to even suggest. Champion/Yea it is. Norton/I can just imagine answering a call, saying get away from my door I can't answer you now. Kubby/When there' s a date set for that public infonnation meeting if you would let us know that as soon as possible of the date and location and then copies of these that are going to go on the buses that are available just I would like a whole set of them cause I know I'm going to get a lot of calls and that way I can have them in front of me and explain things to people. Fowler/Yea, as soon as we can get it all put together the sooner we can have a public meeting and move on because if there are any changes made we would want a decent lead time because all the route signs would have to be changed by the sign crews, shelters would have to be relocated, we'd have to get the printed material out so we will need quite a bit of lead time once the decision is made to make any changes. Vanderhoef/And would you be thinking in terms of getting it done before the students come back in the fall? Fowler/We would like to. Vanderhoef/I would like to also. Fowler/Yes. Kubby/So, is it possible to have a date for the information meeting and the public heating at the same time. Not that the date is the same but to have them scheduled. Fowler/Oh yea I think we can we can send you a memo in your next packet that would say when the public meeting, when and where the public meeting would be and when we would want to bring it back for formal council action. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 92 Vanderhoef/And you'll get us all a copy a set of the maps? Fowler Yes. Lehman/Very good, thank you. Vanderhoef/Thank you. Lehman/Council Appointments. Historic Preservation Commission. Appointments 99-42 S2 Kubby/I'd like to nominate Richard Carlson. Champion/You know I'd like to but (can't hear). (All talking). Champion/I like the idea of somebody living in the historic district (can't hear). (All talking). Lehman/Carlson was the young, Carlson was the fellow. Vanderhoef/He's the architect. Lehman/Yea but it wasn't the architect that was. Kubby/The Harmon. Lehman/Yes. Kubby/But we (can't hear) historic preservation saying with all these changes on the commission that they really need skills of an architectural historical. Champion/Historical (can't hear). CHANGE REEL TO TAPE 99-43 SIDE 1 Vanderhoef/She was the last. Champion/Right. Vanderhoef/Historian on the commission. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 93 Champion/Well that's why I thought the. Kubby/I mean I know that William really, he's been trying, he tried to get on designing hue a lot and I hope that he will end up on a commission because he's really motivated to be involved. Champion/He could be the Summit Street representative when that comes up to. Kubby/Ah ah. Lehman/Well, do we, who would favor Carlson? Vanderhoef/I would. Norton/I would. Champion/I would support him. Lehman/All right, Carlson will be the. Public Art Advisory Committee. Norton/Gary Nagle. Vanderhoef/Does he have any conflict of interest? Lehman/Well I think that he has to address that if he does. Vanderhoef/OK. I just don't know the terms. Kubby/Well in his mind. Lehman/Well he has to address that in the application. Kubby/Right. Lehman/He has to fill that out, first page of the application. Kubby/Marian when Gary replied the new blurb about conflict was on his application, so we understood. Karr/The new blurb was, and then if he's appointed then we send him the sheet that you recently completed where he states this. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 94 Vanderhoef/OK. That's what I wanted official. Lehman/Right. OK. City Council Information. Council Time 99-43 S1 1. Kubby/Scheduling. Lehman/Scheduling. Kubby/You said we were going to talk about scheduling. Letunan/All right. We all got a copy of the proposed schedule through September something or whatever. Does that work? O'Donell/Sure. Lehman/Works for me. Vanderhoef/Yes. Norton/Yes. Kubby/Well I thought the other goal was to a little further to because there might be some changes because of council elections and to have that be known when (can't hear). Champion/I don't think we should have a meeting on the night of council elections. Lehman/Well I think that could be written off too. Skip it. Norton/What did you say? Lehman/The night of the council election probably should not be a council meeting. Kubby/There's primary, we have. Lehman/Same way with primary. Kubby/And that may change other scheduling and so because we had kind of the year long schedule some people may need time to change plans in between September and November because of changes that we made. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 95 Norton/Can I ask if we skip both meetings in September, that is we're skipping Labor Day, moving that from the 7th to the 14th is that correct? Karr/Correct. Norton/And why are we slipping the next one again right after that? Karr/Because you requested it because of the holiday, there's a. Norton/Oh, the Yom Kippur. Karr/Correct. Norton/OK, so if we slip the next one that's (can't hear) in September, that sets you up for a meeting after the. Karr/No, it has nothing to do with the October-November schedule. That is determined by the off-week, it has not affected October-November. Vanderhoef/But October. Kubby/October 12 and 26 then in October. Karr/Yes you could. Kubby/And that would help us miss both the primary and the general. Karr/No, may I just clarify I resolution, you established a meeting schedule starting a certain date and every other week thereafter. When you switch, we don't switch it inpertatuity???, you only affect the one's. Norton/You can't leave it for a special (can't hear). Karr/That's, no, you can leave for a specials, but that doesn't hit the general election, you can switch in October Karen, the 5th to the 12th, the 19th to the 261h, but you still have November 2nd. Kubby/OK then we'd have to switch to the 9th. Karr/Correct. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 96 Kubby/That would give us a nice rhythm of two weeks, two weeks, two weeks. Karr/Then you' 11 have a. Kubby/For all these specials. Norton/ Karr/Then you'll, that's right. Oh certainly, you can do that, then you'd get back on schedule the 16th. Kubby/The 16th maybe. Lehman/October 12 and what? Karr/261h. Kubby/12th and 261h, and the November 9th and 16th. Vanderhoef/The only thing that is in there is the League of Cities. Norton/What's the date? Vanderhoef/It's the Kubby/ Karr/That's in December. Vanderhoef/No, stately. And it starts the 6th and goes through the 9th I believe it is. Karr/Of September? Vanderhoef/Yes. Karr/Yes. Norton/Of September? Kubby/Oh, I thought we were working on October, I thought we already. Vanderhoef/October. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 97 Karr/October or September? Vanderhoef/October is League. Kubby/So how does that interfere with having the meeting on the 12th? Norton/ Vanderhoef/Isn't it? That's what I have in my calendar. Kubby/How does that interfere with the meeting on the 12th? Norton/Can't be September that's Labor Day. Kubby/We'll be taking it off the 5th and putting it on the 12th. Norton/In fact it'll free it up if we go October 12th and 26th. Karr/Are we talking September or October? Letmmn/We're talking October right now? I don't know that, I don't care, but I think we're getting out a ways, we may find that we may have to change these. Norton/But should schedule with respect to elections, I guess your trying to find a League of Cities thing. That's the, fight now, the October-November (can't hear). Karr/Why don't I do this, why don't I check that to see if that, here it is I've got the League meeting the 6th through the 9th. Norton/Of. Karr/October. Norton/Then your OK. Karr/So it doesn't affect it. If we move the 5th to the 12th. Kubby/Let's do that, anybody object to that? Lehman/I don't have any problem. No, I may have a problem. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 98 Karr/No we're not canceling, we're rescheduling the 5th to the 12th. Lehman/Yea. Norton/And then. Karr/Rescheduling the 19th to the 261h. Lehman/I'm not sure that I can make the 261h, but I won't know for a bit. Champion/Well at least leave it, we can talk about it later. Norton/Suppose you try this Mafian, October 12 and 26, and November 9 and 16. What would December look like if you went that way? Karr/Well you, you'd be back in the same spot if you resumed November 16th, you'd have the 16th, the 30th of November and then you'd have December 14. Kubby/And then that gets into. Karr/And then the 20. Norton/30th that's fight after Thanksgiving? Yea. O'Donnell/I have no idea. Kubby/What's that. O'Donnell/I said who knows when we're going that far ahead. Were talking. Norton/Well. Karr/How about if we. O'Donnell/Eight months. Kubby/Right but because of the election if we know we want to skip those and at least we can reschedule those and work on the others later. Karr/How about if we just do this. O'Donnell/What? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 99 Karr/How about if we just do this, we've already agreed to the September change, and we already know that the, if there's a primary needed, see we don't know, we won't know about that until the filing deadline in September. But you've got a League meeting in October, why don't we just go as far as changing October 5th to the 12th right now. Lehman/Right. Kubby/Could we also not have a meeting on the 2nd, which is the general election. Lehman/Yes, I think we can. Kubby/And skip that to the 9th and then we can fill the rest in later. That's the big thing, I don't worry about the fill in stuff. Vanderhoef/What's the date for the primary? Karr/The primary if needed be the 5th, October 5th. Norton/5th and 2nd of November. Karr/If we're going to do that then, I would like to make a commitment to that second week in October as soon as possible only because it does affect then the back to back meeting because of some scheduling of a potential project. Kubby/Oh when will you know Emie? I mean is it like two months? Lehman/Oh well I'll know probably in a month or so for sure. Kubby/Is that soon enough? Karr/Let's just go with the revised summer schedule, with an asterisk that's there's an understanding we will not meeting on city election nights and firm it up later. Lehman/All right. Karr/Is that OK.? Vanderhoef/Where's, I've got October 5th also for school election, is that correct? Kubby/No, it's in September. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 100 Champion/ Vanderhoef/Probably would be. Kubby/September 7th. Karr/Be the 7th or the 14th I don't know which school elections are. Vanderhoef/I wonder where I got that, it doesn't look right. Kubby/The first or second Tuesday. Aren't elections always the first Tuesday? Maybe not. Karr/I don't know what Labor Day does to that and that's why I wasn't sure when it's a holiday. Champion/ Lehman/Well we've gotten through the first what, the first meeting in October, that's done. Karr/Yes. Lehman/All right. Anything else for Council time? Champion/The only thing that I, I need to, you know, minor but when we change schedules all the time it really interferes with my market because it's fine because I can go to market Friday and Saturday, but when I make reservations for that it, and then we change it back to Monday or Tuesday then I'm in trouble for a hotel room. Lehman/Yea, I can see that. Champion/I mean I get in trouble, I don't mind going Thursday or Friday. Lehman/Well we know where we are through the what 12th of October. Champion/Yea, and that's why if we don't change it. Lehman/I don't think, I think those are pretty well fixed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 101 Norton/Well you have to bring up those issues, I mean everybody's schedules equal. Champion/I can go beginning of market or the end of market, I don't care when I go, I just. (All talking). O'Donnell/Middle of October. Lehman/We're through the first meeting of October, that's quite a ways from now. O'Donnell/That's fine, I can get reservations then in between times and this will not be changed right. ????/Probably. Lehn~an/I think that's set, all right. Norton/Now I have. Karr/I'll send a final out tomorrow because we've got staff also so you'll get a final. Lehman/All right. Vanderhoef/OK. 2. Norton/There are just three quick, well if Steve's not here I don't know whether, I'm kind of curious on an update on the Yeggy situation. I'd like to see that come up by our own initiative rather than wait for others, problem what happened. Kubby/You just want an update because (can't hear) update? Norton/That's what I'd like is an update. Dilkes/We'll give you an update. Lehman/OK. 3. Norton/And I don't know about how what kind of progress is being made with respect to Oaknoll parking dilemma. Champion/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 102 Norton/I don't want that. Vanderhoef/That was suppose to go on the work schedule? Norton/Is that on P & Z or somebody's work schedule? Vanderhoef/Well that was the conversation we had that night. O'Donnell/Are you talking zoning Dee is that what your? Norton/No, but remember that zoning that Oakcrest up in the neighborhood parking. That's going to, that issue is going to plague us again, you know where we're talking about our First Avenue people wanting parking off of there, everybody's going to want a neighborhood parking structure. Champion/No, we don't want to pay for parking but I (can't hear). (All talking). Norton/But that was a special issue out there. We were looking for a resolution out there and I just want to make sure it doesn't fall. Vanderhoef/And I thought I directed that to. (All talking). 4. Norton/I'll ask Karen, I'll ask Karen. I'll ask Karen how that's going and I said I've got a couple memos coming on some other matter particularly on Stepping Up that I think we need to deal with. You know the whole license question can we do any. Lehman/All fight. Champion/Oh that would be great, we need to look at that. Norton/OK. Vanderhoef/ Norton / Well she's looking, we're looking at a whole range of things. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 103 Lehman/Right. Norton/They'd like to know about our arrest records for example, could they alcohol implications be a part of a routine arrest. In other words could the cop indicate there was alcohol involve? Kubby/Just as tracking. Norton/Just as a tracking device, and things of that kind. And also some special concerns with the city working with them on football weekends, you know their trying to do their thing with there's also a lot of stuff that goes on in terms of trashing and parties and open containers and stuff that they like to have our help and I think there are also some things their doing about sororities and fraternities. That have parties at houses that are not sororities and fraternities, their going to define those other houses as if they have X members of a sorority or fraternity it's going to be regarded as a sorority party or fraternity party. Kubby/Which mean non-alcohol. Letunan/But that's going to be, that's a university thing, that's not ours. Norton/We're related to some of these but I just think we need to make sure that we get in really good step with collectibly with them. We'll keep working on it, I'll make some of these into notes from Julie. Go ahead, I'm sorry. Lehman/Anybody else. O'Donnell/Yea, Karen, you made the comment in the paper that I read that I want to take issue with, is about the sales tax vote, you said the discrepancy in the sales tax issue meant that this council did not represent the community on this issue. And I resent that a little bit because I did represent the community, I thought it was my responsibility to put it on the ballot and let them tell me exactly what they wanted and that's what's happened. Kubby/What paper was that in? I haven't seen that quote. O'Donnell/Well, I. Kubby/May be helpful for me to read it to see if it were accurate. O'Donnell/I'll get a copy of it yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 104 Kubby/I mean was it like the DI? O'Donnell/I mean, I don't mind you saying it's my opinion, but when you said this council does not represent the best interest of the community, I take offend of that. Kubby/Well and I just. Champion/You are part of this council. Kubby/That's right, but that's assuming that the quote was accurate, so I'll go and look at the paper and then say that you know it was deservant or not. O'Donnell/OK, but please do not speak for me out of mind, if nobody else minds, I don't have a problem with them, but I'd just assume you not speak for me. Kubby/Well that's assuming that I did so, thanks. Lehman/OK, tomorrow I am, Dale and I are going to Des Moines at 5:30 tomorrow morning, along with Dan Hudson, I don't know if the county assessor's going or not. There is a subcommittee of the ways and means committee meeting tomorrow morning, and I think it's been frankly I think it's been called by some lobbyists who are trying to get the tax regulations on condominiums those that are out there fight now, they want them grandfathered in, so that they will always be taxed as residential property. I think that we should go and I've talked to Dale and we're going to be a short night, but we can talk to that committee and I would like I guess with your permission, my personal feeling is thin if you can't get homestead exemption on your property then it should be taxed as commercial. That means if you don't live in it, if you buy it, you don't live in it then it's commercial, you rent it out. Now that's pretty simple. A lot of people aren't going to like that. But that's pretty simple. Norton/Yea I'm sure. Vanderhoef/The lobbyists. Lehman/The other thing that I would like to see us advocate that there are people who changing the law from making condominiums residential to commercial could creme a real problem for some folks who have purchased condominiums and their making payments that include taxes and suddenly the taxes change. But if they had a period of time, if they were like tax abatement if they will, but work it in over a period of 5 or 10 years I don't think it's a problem for anybody. And at the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 105 end of 5 or 10 years then every condominium that is not, does not have homestead exemption would be treated as a commercial property and taxed that way. Kubby/And that time period would be the tradeoff for getting it back (can't hear). Lehman/That's exactly right, for what they spent, now that's what I would like to go. Norton/What do you have proposed for homestead I forget? Lehman/If you can't get homestead exemption on your condominium then it is a commercial property. Thornberry/That's correct. Champion/That's a great (can't hear). Lehman/That is gonna really make some people mad. Kubby/(can't hear) to speak for us on that. Norton/So, I think it's a wonderful, I think there's going to be a lot of folks, but there's gotta be some basis, and it sounds to me like a (can't hear). Lehman/The only basis I can think of that treats absolutely everybody exactly the same. Thornberry/Because if it is, if you can get homestead exemption and you do live in it, it's a condominium. Lehman/That's fight, that's exactly right. But if you bought it as an apartment, and you bought it to lease the apartment, then you should be paying the same taxes as apartment owners. Kubby/Does that cause any problems if different units in the condo are treated differently as commercial, it doesn't matter? Champion/No, No. Lehman/If you get, no, it wouldn't with homestead exemption you could have one unit out of a hundred and your unit would be taxed as a residential, everybody else's would be commercial. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 106 Norton/How in the world would you as a condo owner ever get that established, does any in a condo now have homestead? Thornberry/Sure. Lehman/Anybody, anybody who lives in a condo does. Thornberry/Absolutely, you take it if you got it, it's a deduction. Kubby/You bet. Thornberry/If you've got it available to you your going to take it. Lehman/Just like your house you know. O'Donnell/Speak again about the grandfathered in part. Lehman/The folks, the condo people and their not just people in Iowa City, their all over the state who have condo's, want to grandfather the present condo's in that these condo's will be forever treated as residential property and will not be taxed as commercial property. I think that's wrong, I think there is some substantial number of condo's that have been changed, two condo's. Thornberry/Oh recently. Vanderhoef/Apartments. Lehman/And another (can't hear). There were also a lot of condo's that were built for as apartments, but they've been called condo's, and I just think that grandfathering those folks in gives a very unfair advantage to those folks and I don't think it's fight. Now, it's going to cost us, it costs us money here. Vanderhoef/Oh big time. Thornberry/Lots of it. Lehman/Costs us a lot of money. Thornberry/Yea. Norton/But I think you have my blessing Ernie. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599 April 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 107 Champion/Would that 10 percent of your, I mean you could do a, you know a five year plan, like 10 percent of your condo is commercial property first year, and 20 percent second year. Lehman/Well they can work that out but. Norton/You mean the transition. Vanderhoef/I would think five years would be maximum. Champion/I think five years. Lehman/I don't care, I mean, I just think that somebody should be there to speak. Norton/Are you going to say that Ernie, that your got, your going to phase it in or do you want yours to have phase it in over a period of time. Lehman/Oh, I'd let them phase it in, I think that's, there are situations where if you are purchasing a condo and your payments including your taxes, your maxed out, that's the most you can pay, if we suddenly change the rules and your taxes go up by 40 percent which is what they will. You may not be able to finance that so I think you have to phase it in so you don't hurt someone. Thornberry/Well that's exactly why their calling them condo's. Lehman/Exactly right. All right. Kubby/Will you talk to Dale about the fire (can't hear). Lehman/Yes, I've already talked to them, we're going to visit, he and I will have five hours of driving tomorrow in the car. Kubby/I just. Adjoumed 9:50 PM. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 5, 1999. WS040599