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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-04-19 TranscriptionApril 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 1 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session 6:50 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef (Thomberry Absent) Staff: Atkins, Dilkes, Schmadeke, Franklin, Helling, Fosse, Karr, Yapp, Schoenfelder, Mollenhauer, Yucuis, Scott Neumann Tapes: 99-43, Side 2, 99-46, All; 99-47 All A complete transcription is available in the City Clerk's office. Review Planning & Zoning 99-43 S2 a. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for May 4 on an ordinance amending City Code Section 14-6, "Zoning Chapter," concerning definitions and parking requirements for carryout, delivery, and drive-through restaurants. Franklin/This is for reducing the requirements for dtive-through and carryout restaurants, and this is something that' s been on the pending like a 100 years and we finally got to it. Consider a motion setting a public hearing for May 4 on an ordinance amending the Planned Development Housing Overlay (OPDH-12) plan for Silvercrest, a 20.87-acre 5-lot residential subdivision including 68 assisted living units, 120 independent living units, a 40-bed medical rehabilitation facility and a 900 square foot medical office building, located at the southeast quadrant of Scott Boulevard and American Legion Road. Franklin/Set public hearing for May 4. Now the Silvercrest Developers, Dial Company, you had a letter in your packet that requested that the first reading of the ordinance be on the same night as the public heating. And I just would like to know, obviously you can always defer that first consideration. Ifthat's OK with you that we put it on that way when we set (can't hear). Kubby/Are they also asking for 2nd and 3rd to be collapsed? Franklin/They will ask for that yes because their trying, you know they got through the whole thing, and then they decided to make some changes and have to go back through. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2 Lehman/Are these substantial changes, obviously not, so if we've already approved this one time, is that correct? Franklin/That's right. Lehman/Now we're really approving the changes. Franklin/What they did is they redesigned one building and one building they made smaller. Norton/Did they change any access off of Scott? I thought there was a change. Franklin/There's one less isn't there? One less access than there was in the previous approval because there was a, it was a loading area fight Larry? Yea, there were a loading area that accessed off of Scott Boulevard and that is gone from this. Now what it does do is it leaves a piece of ground that is potentially developable in the future. Well when you look at that you can see it. If I put in on for public heating and first consideration you can always decide if you've got questions or problems with it, just do not do that first consideration. Kubby/I have trouble with double collapsing them. Franklin/Oh, I know, I know. Norton/Well they've already asked for that in so many words haven't they for (can't hear). Franklin/Yes they have, they've asked for a double collapse and I think. Kubby/So has Scott and Washington. Franklin/Right, the Mazzotta project. Kubby/I don't mind doing one of them. Franklin/We've told them that. Kubby/But I don't want to do both of them. Franklin/We've told them that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 3 Kubby/So, I guess my preference if we end up doing just one is to collapse the 2nd and 3rd versus the public hearing and the first. Franklin/OK. Well I'll go ahead and put that on and then you all can decide at that meeting. Lehman/OK. Public hearing on a resolution adopting and incorporating the Northeast District Plan into the Iowa City Comprehensive Plan (continued from March 30 and April 6). Franklin/The Noaheast District Plan is Item c public hearing, again I guess it would be useful to us so that we can let people know what' s going on with this, what your intentions are in terms of continuing the public hearing, are you going to continue it council meeting to council meeting, or continue it from this meeting on the 20th to something, May 18 is about a month which is what you indicated, some of you indicated to the home builders was a reasonable period of time to expect their comments back. Kubby/Aren't we having the transit public heating that night and there' s one other kind of big? Franklin/On the 18th? Kubby/Yea. Franklin/Oh. Kubby/And there's one other thing on the 18th that I would rather not have all those big things. Franklin/Sure. Kubby/I can't remember what. Atkins/The library board has asked for meeting on the 17th. Kubby/Oh the library, maybe I'm thinking of the library. Atkins/We haven't discussed that one yet. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4 Norton/My question is when are we going to have the second talk about the Noaheast Plan among ourselves in light of what we've heard. Franklin/The 18th your going to have the PIN grants. Vanderhoef/Well some of us haven't had an update yet on what happened at the meeting with the home builders and the (can't hear). Lehman/Are we going to hear about that tomorrow night, do you know Karin? Franklin/From them? Lehman/Yea, do you know? Franklin/I don't think so. Kubby/So until we see the specific language that their interested in changing it's hard to know how much time, I mean it may be. Norton/A month. Kubby/You know it might be 50 things, it might be two things. And there might be other community input. Franklin/Or it might be rousing endorsement. Norton/Well have they been. Kubby/Yea, I'm sorry, I forgot that (can't hear). I did I forgot that option. Norton/ Franklin/Just, it's in the realm of possibility. Vanderhoef/Can we put that phrase into the minutes? Norton/They've got to put something in writing. O'Donnell/We asked them to bring us a list (can't hear). Norton/When are we going to get that? We need time to talk then. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 5 Vanderhoef/Yes, I want a work session. Norton/Right. Franklin/There's a letter to them. Atkins/It should be in your packet. Kubby/Yea, that one's in there. Lehman/That' s from us to them, but nothing from them. Atkins/No, it hasn't come in yet. Lehman/No. Franklin/My understanding is that they are going to send it to their national association for some comments from them. Lehman/What? Franklin/To get some expertise from their national association. Lehman/Their going to send the Northeast Plan to their national association? Franklin/Well yea, or representatives of, but they thought they could have it back and have comments back to you in a month is what was the understanding. I think that understand that time frame. Kubby/Ifthat's the time flame that we're not going to get comments from them until after then, there's no sense in us in having this on the next council meeting to just defer it again, so maybe we should do a month or month and a half. I don't want to want to do a month and a half it's getting long. Norton/You mean we defer it until middle of June then. Lehman/Well I don't have, we have transit hearing the same night, I don't kd~ow what to expect with transit hearing. Norton/Could be big though. Franklin/Your next meeting after the 18th would be June 15. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 6 Kubby/That's getting so far out. Lel'unan/That's two months from now, it's too long. O'Donnell/I think we should do it. Champion/ O'Donnell/Go to June 15. Norton/We ought to set a date for final so people can. Lehman/Well the problem is. Vanderhoef/Then if we need a special meeting for us to talk about it we could do it at a work session, but we're skipping one in the middle there. Norton/That's tight. Vanderhoef/So if we need a work session we might be able to poke one work session in there. Lehman/Except that I think some of the things we want to hear we're not going to hear until the June meeting. So we're not going to be able to have that public heating and close it I don't think. Norton/I thought they were going to submit something by May 18. Lehman/Well if they give it to us, I don't know who they're going to give it to. Franklin/I would assume they would submit it to the council, but exactly when is unclear. I guess what I would recommend is that you defer it or continue it to the 18th of May, which allows them some time and they may get it in before then, who knows. But you also want to have, you want to have an opportunity for the council to talk about this with specifics. And I would like an opportunity to talk with the council about some of the responses to some of the comments and we've also indicated that we would notify the people who had been part of this whole process that what was going on, and they need some time too if they choose to take it, I don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 7 Lehman/Well I think that' s fine, but I do think that after we have the next public hearing we need to be able to sit down amongst ourselves and discuss what we've heard. Champion/What if we need their comments by May 15, was that a month from your meeting? Franklin/The 12th. Champion/So we need their comments by May 15 or May 20 so we can have time too. Norton/But there' s a gap because we don't have a meeting the 1st of June or thereabouts. I, what' s the matter with getting their comments within two weeks from May, that' s May what. O'Donnell/Cause they said it's going to take 30 days to get it in. Norton/They've already have two weeks. O'Donnell/I think we've. Lehman/If we get their comments by the 18th of May I think if we receive them at that meeting I would think sometime between then and the meeting in June we should be able to get together with Karin and we can't do that. Kubby/ Norton/It could be tough because some of us are planning escapes. Karr/I think what's already shaping up, again it's totally your call but is that in those times you've scheduled around people are scheduling absences. Lehman/Right. Right. Champion/But we could meet two hours early at that work session and get that discussion out of the way. Norton/Why couldn't we ask them to get their comments to us unless, a week earlier than May 187 Vanderhoef/Well that' s not going to satisfy the public if we don't have it presented in a public forum where everybody hears what they are asking. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 Norton/That's right, particularly the P & Z may want to hear it too. Vanderhoef/That's exactly right so. Norton/Oh boy. Vanderhoef/For us to have it ahead of time would be nice for us to have time to think about it but it's still is going to have to be presented at a public hearing before everyone. Franklin/Well I mean the 18th you're not going to end it there anywhere. O'Donnell/No. Lehman/We'll have it the 18th, receive their comment and then try to work out something among ourselves and P & Z whatever, we'll make that decision after the 18th. All tight, we'll continue to May 18 tomorrow night. Franklin/OK. d. Public hearing on an ordinance amending City Code subsections 14-5H, Site Plan Review, and 14-65, Performance Standards, regarding lighting standards. Franklin/The next item is public heating on the lighting standards, and John Yapp is here to present this and. Lehman/Is he really the house doctor? Franklin/Pardon me? Lehman/Is he really the house doctor? John Yapp/I really am the house doctor. Lehman/Are you really? Yapp/I am. Lehman/For heaven sakes. Yapp/I'll be the house doctor. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 9 Lehman/Is that right, what are your relations? Yapp/Oh it's 3rd or 4th cousin. woman/Oh you could marry them. Yapp/I could marry them. woman/Thank you very much. Yapp/This is in Arkansas. One thing I just wanted to make clear before we start, what is being recommended would not apply to City High. I've had a lot of phone calls about that. Lehman/We know that. Yapp/And this would not apply to public zone. Kubby/Unless we made an an~endment. Yapp/And this would not apply to public zones. Lehman/Can't do it anyway. Vanderhoef/ Yapp/This started out with wanting to deal with some commercial and industrial level lighting that is, that is lighting has improved to such an extent it was starting to become a nuisance. Especially as commercial areas are being mixed in closer to residential areas. And what these standards are meant to do is to keep the lights from being a nuisance to the residential area. Their not meant to limit the amount of light within the property itself. Within the property itself they can still be as bright as they want, as long as they can do that without being a nuisance to their neighbors. And on the first page of the February 26 memo there's a 1-4 and these are the four main points ofwhat's being proposed. Marian could you hit the lights and turn on the indirect lights. Those right there. (Refers to overhead) This fight in here this is about one foot candle. This is what is being recommended as the maximum at the property line. As you can see it's not pitch dark, it's still bright enough where you can see someone coming down the block for security purposes but it's not so bright that it's obnoxious. We don't feel it's a nuisance. Again within the property itself you can be as bright as you want as long as your not higher than this level at the property line. Also this, were recommending that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 10 light fixtures be shielded, this is an example of shielded and downcast light. If it was like this this causes some glare to you. Kubby/I didn't do it. Yapp/This would not be permitted, it's shining, if your the residential area your all sitting there and this is the commercial property or industrial or multifamily, the same exact bulb, same brightness of light within a shielded light fixtures becomes much less of a nuisance, and that is what we mean by a shielded light fixture. You can turn the lights back on, thanks Marian. Third, we're proposing a height limit on the poles that they be mounted no higher than 25 feet high in a residential zone or within 300 feet of a residential zone, elsewhere they can be mounted at 35 feet high. The Walden Square lights at Mormon Trek Blvd. those are 24 feet, so that's a good example of the height we're talking about, and that's a pretty successful commercial area. Vanderhoef/ Yapp/Walden Square off of Mormon Trek, Jimmy' s Bistro out there. Norton/(can't hear) at Winebrelmer, can you tell me? Yapp/What's that? Norton/Winebrenner, do you know how high that is? Yapp/I don't know. O'Donnell/Do you know what it is for Walgreens? Yapp/25 feet was the maximum, the new Walgreens, yea 25 feet. Vanderhoef/OK when you move up to the 35 foot height you still are going to have a property line (can't hear). Yapp/Across from residential zones or neighborhood commercial zones. Vanderhoef/Only on residential, so it's commercial across the street, and you move it up to 35. Yapp/If you're across froin a commercial you would not have that requirement at the property line no. And the feeling is if it's a commercial next to another This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 11 commercial the lights from their from both their properties would combine the property line. Kubby/What do we do, we have a lot of commercial areas that aren't neighborhood but have a residential uses on top. Yapp/This would apply to residential areas, neighborhood-commercial areas, and office commercial. Norton/Those are the ones that can have (can't hear). Yapp/And those are the ones that for the majority of those are the ones that have residential, there are some I think commercial's also out in community commercial, or residential's allowed in community commercial area but because that scene is a very automobile oriented use, and also the downtown zones you would not have this requirement because there's a lot more activity a lot more variety. And it's not, those aren't residential in character. And fourth, we would require a lighting plan be submitted with the site plan for larger developments and we define that here as if they have 18 or more parking spaces. Lehman/Now, let me ask you, what sort of expertise does it take on the part of the builder or developer to comply with the plan as we are suggesting? Yapp/Not very much I don't think. Lehman/It's simple. Yapp/It's pretty simple. Lehman/It seems simple. Yapp/ And for the most all developments where you hire a contractor to build which is anything unless your building your own addition onto your home or something like that, higher lighting technicians and deal with the electricians to deal with that anyway. Which is the reason we recommended and not require a maximum average level of light within the property itself requiring light shields and requiting a pole height are much easier for enforcement staff to deal with also. Much easier to enforce. Kubby/So the shields have to be put also on lights that aren't on a pole, that are let's say on a side of building? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 12 Yapp/Yes, wall mounted, yes. The only time, and it's written into the code for ornamental light fixtures like on the Pentacrest or in the College Green Park or even the new lights downtown, we allow wood refractors within those lights if their above the equivalent of 150 watt bulb. Vanderhoef/Which is what we did in College Green? Yapp/Right, yea. Kubby/So, I think about HyVee on First Avenue, their at one foot candle at their property line. Yapp/Right. Kubby/So their their OK, and maybe it's because some (can't hear). Yapp/Now the height those are still 38 feet high. Kubby/And a lot of their lights are not shielded, even though like there's a bank of fluorescent bulbs on the noah side. Yapp/Right. Kubby/They are recessed but the glare is incredible and do you feel that even those shielded would reduce that glare to an acceptable level? Yapp/Yes. And now the one thing you're not going to get away from is this example again. If this is your commercial area, you'll be able to see that there's light here and there will be some reflection off of the materials on the building, off of the parking lot, off of the hoods of cars, and I don't see how we're going to get around that. But by having them shield that takes care of a lot of the problem. If to really reduce the level of light on the interior of the site you would need to adopt a maximum level of light for the interior of the site. We're not recommending that at this time but that' s what you would need to do. There are a few cities that do do that typically in the Southwest in stargazing areas, New Mexico and Arizona. Kubby/I have a question about the outdoor rec. facilities that's on page 3 of the ordinance, point #3. So that means that all recreational facilities that are not owned by any governmental jurisdiction need a special exemption? Yapp/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 13 Kubby/To speak more about that. Yapp/Yes. Kubby/So if it says that there exempt from specific lighting standards provided the Board of Adjustment approves the lighting plan as part of the special exception approval. Yapp/Right. Kubby/So does that mean, what will the Board of Adjustment use, will they use this ordinance as their guidelines? Yapp/They'll use these, they'll use these standards as a guideline. Yes. Not as, the main thing there is the pole height with a, if it's a private softball field like at the. Kubby/They're going to be higher. Yapp/They're going to be higher and like at the Moose, the new Moose lodge, I think they have a softball field. Kubby/But they might look at shielding and direction directional lighting, they might even look at landscaping issues. Although for 35 feet that's (can't hear). Yapp/They may and we would recommend that in our reports to the board but these guidelines would be used as a starting point I think. But the Board of Adjustment would need to feel comfortable enough to approve that lighting plan. Kubby/In some of the, we got, this is kind of a question for council (can't hear). We got a letter. Yapp/Oh from Ron Vogel, yea. Kubby/Yea, and one of the things he said was, oh here it is, he says, why the hesitation to regulate lighting on public grounds, light is light, it's not any less annoying if it comes from public grounds and. Norton/(can't hear). Yapp/I agreed with him there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 14 Kubby/It makes a lot of sense. Yapp/And I told him I agreed with him, light is light. But it's not that we're choosing not to regulate light on public grounds, it's that we don't regulate any zoning requirements on public grounds and he understood that. Kubby/and the immediate (can't hear) is that we've asked Plmming & Zoning to look at not just lighting as a nuisance from public entities including us but other noise and whatever other kinds of nuisances public entities may be to the public. Yapp/There's a lot. Norton/That is on the work plan isn't it? Kubby/It is. Norton/To look at zoning applied to public body's and (can't hear). Kubby/So I mean one of the things we could do is move it up or what do people think about this issue of grandparenting in current commercial areas? Champion/I don't think we can really do that, I mean that would be a tremendous expense. Kubby/To not grandparent it in. Norton/(can't hear). Champion/I mean (can't hear). Lehman/Yea. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Champion/Right, that's what I mean. Lehman/Unless they remodel or whatever then. Yapp/Yea, under these they, if they redeveloped a redeveloping business would need to comply with these standards or a new business. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 15 Vanderhoef/How about the same business but just being sold, new ownership but same business? Yapp/I don't believe that would trigger these new requirements. Champion/But any replacement of light fixtures I think would have to be (can't hear). Lehman/Well I think that that again, that's governed by whether or not your replacing one broken fixture or replacing them all, I'm sure there are standards on that, that would be replacement of a system which would require components. Norton/So the people at City High on Dunlap Court just suffer then? Yapp/Well I encouraged Mr. Vogel to work with the school board on they have yea, and I believe they are doing a study. Champion/They are looking at that (can't hear). Kubby/They are and really I mean I know that we kind of feel like we don't have any responsibility but there was $10,000 of city money in there and that we could be a resource maybe for the school district cause their not used to dealing with these kinds of issues with neighborhoods and we are and so I would like to suggest on that front that we offer some assistance and maybe some ideas for the school district because it is affecting some. Vanderhoef/Do you have an idea that you'd like to offer? Norton/Shield it, try some kind of shielding, I can't imagine their not (can't hear). Vanderhoef/When we did the College Green Park as I recall there was a shield that was considered that was on the back side, it was on the pole, not onto the light fixture itself. Yapp/I couldn't tell you. Kubby/That (can't hear) but that' s not what the lights are Yapp/I think that' s more of a reflector. Vanderhoef/But it was a shield because it was real specific about a complaint by one resident that it was coming in the second story window which was the bedroom or This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 16 whatever and there was some sort of a shield, you might call Terry and ask him if he remembers. Yapp/Maybe. Norton/Well those lights are kind of a different character because the bulbs (can't hear). Yapp/Yea the City High tennis court lights are 50 feet high. Vanderhoef/Oh, however they need to be lit, the backside of it, now when and that's son of on a hill as compared to Dunlap Court so in some respects it's probably higher than 50 feet. Norton/I'm curious why there that high, I don't understand. Franklin/I think there' s an issue here of whether you have an expectation that we are going to do something about the City High lights or not. And I mean in terms of doing research or anything else. I mean there really isn't reason why the school district staff couldn't do the same research. Vanderhoef/Right, that was my question to Karen in the first place. Kubby/Some of it is process. Vanderhoef/What we could offer and I wasn't sure what we could offer and then that just struck me that that was. Lehman/Haven't they indicated they are going to be looking into this, the school board? Champion/Right their very (can't hear). Yapp/Well I read in the paper that they the school board said they would study the issue. Lehman/Maybe that's where I saw it. Why don't we send them a copy of our proposed ordinance? Yapp/I'd be glad to. Lehman/Let's do it. Norton/We could write strongly worded letter. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 17 Lehman/Well I think it would be nice to assist them in their deliberations, here' s a copy of the proposed ordinance that has been passed by. Norton/And suggested. Lehman/And really. Kubby/I mean some ofit's process too because at that joint meeting and Mr. Palmer said that there was nothing they could do, and I just strongly disagree. Lehman/He also said they basically screwed up by not talking to the neighbors. Cause this was something they normally do. Norton/(can't hear) certainly. Kubby/Yea, sending a copy of the ordinance is a good first step. Lehman/I think it would be a good idea. Kubby/And it also just let' s them know that we're watching. Lehman/Paying attention. Champion/We're thinking of them so. Lehman/OK. Franklin/Just write on the bottom, we're thinking of you. Yapp/We're thinking of you. Lehman/Thinking of you. Franklin/With love, City Council. Yapp/Thank you. Kubby/Thanks for telling us. e. Public hearing on a resolution approving annexation of 5.55 acres located in the northwest quadrant of American Legion Road and Taft Avenue. (ANN99- 0001) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 18 f. Public hearing on an ordinance conditionally changing the zoning designation of 5.5 acres located in the northwest quadrant of American Legion Road and Taft Avenue. (REZ99-0003) Franklin/They have asked that this be indefinitely deferred. Pardon me. Kubby/Do we know why? Franklin/Yes because their looking at another property. Kubby/They've had that for so many years. Franklin/So, what I would suggest is that you open the public hearing because the notice has been set, close it and then we'll have to set it and open again at some later date since it's so indefinite. Because if you continue a public hearing indefinitely you've really lost the purpose for which you set a public hearing. Lehman/OK, we'll do that with both (can't hear). Franklin/Yes. Norton/Open and then close. Lehman/Right. Franklin/Yea. OK. Lehman/And I suppose then we also indicate after we've closed it that this, they've asked that this be deferred indefinitely. Franklin/Right. Norton/Well there won't be any asking left at that point will there? Franklin/Well it would be good to make that statement so that it's clear in the record. Lehman/Well I think we should. g. Annexation of approximately 10.3 acres of property located east of Scott Boulevard at Washington Street. (ANN99-0002) Franklin/OK, (refers to overhead) this is the annexation basically it's this part of the tract. We could have a dual. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 19 Lehman/All right. Franklin/The more important part of this is why this annexation although in terms of our annexation policy this is consistent with our policy and is within the growth area. We do have the infrastructure to support it, it should not result in any undo financial burden to the city as a consequence of the annexation. And it is a logical growth of the city to the east. The purpose of the project in the short term is for the development of a project for housing for the elderly and this would be subsidized elderly housing. That is that the project is done with tax credits in order to bring the price of these units down. It will not be subsidized through any funds from the city per se, it does have home funds through your CDBG home allocations. It's two buildings are proposed, now the proposal that went before the Planning & Zoning Commission was approved by Planning & Zoning was for 36 units in each building. The developer has found, and this is something that we've just learned in the last few days. The developers found that in working out the floor plan of these two buildings he has room that he can put in two more units. Which would mean 74. I talked with Dean Shannon before the meeting as to whether that was an issue for the Planning & Zoning Commission and it does not appear that that is the number of units was an issue at the Commission meetings. So the developer would like you to consider these additional units, the option would be if he didn't put in these other two units is that two of the units would be larger as a consequence, because he's got the floor area. So it does provide additional couple of units. The issues with this were primarily ones of design of the building because of the scale of it and relationship to where it is to the topography and to the existing development. And then also access not from this development per se but from this whole subdivision to the east. Just to touch on the design issues first, and I've got a drawing here if anybody wants to see it. Basically it was a mat, no comment Ernie. Lehman/Not a word. Franklin/It was a matter or breaking up the face of the building such that it had some articulation, some relief. And the developer worked through this with the staff and with some members of the Planning & Zoning Commission and the design of it that finally has come through is one that is acceptable to everyone. Norton/Karin which side are you viewing (can't hear) when you say that? Franklin/Well the articulation would be on both sides, now one thing that you find on this side which you don't find here is the doorway and the portecochere. It's over here. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 20 Lehman/Got one of them too. Kubby/Not sophisticated. Franklin/And not on the Scott Boulevard side. You know, you drive the horse up and everybody gets out. Right in this area is storm water detention basin and I mean there's quite a bit of distance between Scott Boulevard and these buildings. And this storm water detention basin has been there for some time and it provides compensatory storage for some development that's over on this side. This is all property that's owned by Bruce Glasgow. And in the development of Scott Boulevard additions, over here, this storm water detention has provided that compensatory storage and it's been there for a while. Norton/So there not really very visible is that what you mean? Franklin/No, they're visible, they're visible but they're not as imposing as they would be if they would be right here. Lehman/Big set back. Franklin/Yes, there's a big set back but they're up on a hill. Norton/But they're above yea. Vanderhoef/Yea, way up. Franklin/And in the final plan which this is not because you'll notice this roadway is different but we didn't have an overhead that was that small. I'll show you in a second the road design. In the final plan there's landscaping all along in here which was added during the Planning & Zoning Commission negotiations. And so that's to further soften this face to Scott Boulevard. One of the issues that we talked about or items that we talked about at a staff level was right here and the visibility of these garages. You know how big we are garages. Anyway what has been done here is kind of berming this area a little and landscaping in here to deal with that issue. And we looked at the sight distance or the line of sight as you were coming down Scott Boulevard what you would see and given the change in topography the vegetation so forth we find this is a very satisfactory solution to that whole thing too. So that's the building. Norton/Are the planters part of the requirements to plantings along Scott itself?. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 21 Franklin/Those are probably the right of way trees that you have to put as a requirement yea, cause that would, that's just. Lehman/Well there along. Kubby/There there now. Franklin/There's something there already. Lehman/But there along that storm water basin and that' s all city property isn't it? Franklin/No, that' s private property. Lehman/Oh, it is. Franklin/The basin is not ours, it's privately owned. Now there may be some trees in the public fight of way. Lehman/Well it looked to me that way. Franklin/OK this is the alignment that is now in place for the streets. Washington is here and it kind of solves an issue that we had very early on having to do with street names. Which was a debate over whether this one coming up here was going to be Scott Park Drive or Hummingbird Lane, it seemed like we were in an impasse about it, well this resolves that, this is Washington. This would continue to be Hummingbird Lane here, and the real issue street name aside has to do with how this behaves in the larger area. Norton/Where is the, I'm sorry I'm losing my orientation, where's Scott in that big loop? Franklin/OK. Scott is over here and Court's down here and I'm going to try to give you an illustration that will make this all abundantly clear. This is what we were originally working with, Court's down here, Scott' s up here, Lower West Branch Road is here. The issue was bringing this street north and continuing on to Lower West Branch Road and a concen~ on the part of people that live here in the county that this was going to be a cut-through, that people would avoid Scott and would use this road. And so what that curve does is it takes you your line of least resistance is to come this way and then you have to turn to go that way. Now frankly I think this whole issue of the cutting through to go from Court to Lower West Branch Road was probably over blown. I mean I don't know that that does not seem to me like a logical place for people to go for any particular reason. Because Scott is where you want to get to to go to any destination point. There This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 22 isn't anything up here that is going to particularly take you to Lower West Branch unless the intersection at Court and Scott becomes congested. But it is much more likely if that were to happen and at some point in time it will happen that we would signalize this intersection allowing you to get out easier there than it would be to get out at Lower West Branch which does not have a 90 degree 4-way intersection it's offset. So we're not going to be signalizing that up there ever. So that's going to be a harder one to get out of. Champion/Well we do have some lights that are signalized. Franklin/Pardon me, oh, yes, Prentice, but we try and not to do that too often. So that was one issue with that whole bit and how those two streets come together. Norton/But Washington makes another bend, as in your previous picture, it's not just curve straight down Washington, it bends back doesn't it, yea, OK. Franklin/A little. Norton/Call that your little. Franklin/This little thing here. Norton/It goes back (can't hear). Franklin/Yea, it kind of goes like this. Yea, now since I've got this one up here, the zoning here because this is as it's annexed it's rezoned, the zoning is RM-12 basically southwest of Washington, RS-5 here on this little piece cause this Bruce owns and is undeveloped and not annexed until this action. These properties will remain in the county. RS-5 here and then OPDH for the elderly housing. OK. Kubby/Hummingbird as shown on there is not built, how does (can't hear). That is there? Franklin/Yea. It's rock or dirt road, probably rolled rock. Kubby/And you enter from Lower West Branch Road. Franklin/Lower West Branch, yea, fight. OK. The other issue that had some discussion and ended in a requirement in the conditional zoning agreement for pedestrian access, had to do with putting a road to the east to connect with the neighborhood that will be developing over here on the Lindemann Farm. Now we have a road down here which is just two lots deep north of Court Street. See, here's Court This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 23 which of course goes out. And I'm going to put up the Lindemann neighborhood plan so you can kind of see the whole context. Where are we here? OK here' s Court, is it? O'Donnell/Yea. Kubby/Lower West Branch in the middle. Franklin/Here's Court, Lower West Branch here and this is Washington coming over from, here's Scott, Washington coming over from Scott. Now currently we have. Kubby/Oh, that's much better. Franklin/Amazing what focus can do. Currently we have this road right here platted to continue over and hook up with the neighborhood. What we had anticipated recognizing that these lots are in the county, their owned, their developed, there's people living there, and it's unlikely we're going to blast through there with a road, that the next logical place that we might be able to get a road through to make another com~ection to this neighborhood would be at this location here. And it also envisioned having some kind of a green space in here because there's quite a few woods there. Well as we looked at this Scott Boulevard Part 3 we talked about getting the annexation to include, remember that shaded areas is the annexation, to include an auction at this point for a road to the east, because it was being annexed it was being zoned, that we do that as a conditional zoning now as opposed to wait until potentially somebody builds a house there and blocks the right of way. That we needed to talk about this now and act on it now. Well the consequence of a lot of discussion that included the engineering consultant, the property owners, the staff and the Planning & Zoning Commission was that this area right in here is too steep to ideally put a road through there plus there's some nice woods there that are worth preserving. So we kind of had to balance out two different goals, one was to have the interconnectedness with neighborhood, the neighborhood to the east. And the other was the sensitive areas, and the steep areas but more importantly probably the wooded. So as a condition in this instead of requiring that road to be there, there' s a requirement that the developer put together a plan for the preservation of the woods there and that there be an easement provided for pedestrian access to the east so we continue to have the pedestrian bicycle access to that neighborhood even though there won't be vehicular. Norton / What do they do go along the edge of that or to the middle, along the edge? Franklin/The easement? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 24 Lehman/Yea. Norton/Yea. Franklin/That's gotta be located yet, that's not located yet is it Larry? No, it's just a matter of it will be provided when we plat that area. Norton/(can't hear). Vanderhoef/Kafin put the other map up again. Franklin/That one. Vanderhoef/Yea. The, this area right in here, I was out there walking today and there is a strip between that end house and the houses around that little cul de sac before you get over to the Glasgow property. Now is that. Franklin/Here. Norton/Yea. Vanderhoef/Yes. Franklin/No, we're talking about north of there. Vanderhoef/I know your talking about it but I'm asking specifically about this other area that doesn't look like it's wide enough to develop unless it were combined. Franklin/This full piece fight here is Diane Boyd's house. And I'm, OK, so what are asking? If that would be an option? Yea, Diane's house is fight here. Lehman/In other words that's a lot. Franklin/Yea, it's a lot. Lehman/It's a lot oflot. Franklin/Aren't I right Larry? Larry Schnittjer/That's right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 25 Vanderhoef/Where' s the location of that house? Franklin/Right there. Schnittjer/Karin go back a couple slides where it shows the arc of the street, Diane's house (can't hear). Franklin/Oh yea, OK. Vanderhoef/Can you Marian? Kubby/Larry if your going to say something you should come up. Lehman/Oh, I see it. Franklin/OK, see there's the lot that your talking about Dee. Vanderhoef/OK. Franklin/And there may be some kind of utilities (can't hear) but see here's her driveway and there's her house. Vanderhoef/Clear back in there? Franklin/Yea and then this is the property we're talking about that's where the (can't hear) will go through. Vanderhoef/That I knew but I was trying to see whether the possibility was there to put the road or the walkway at the south edge of (can't hear). Kubby/To next trees. Norton/Well you don't know where it'll be, it'll be ttuTough there somewhere. Franklin/Right and that's, I mean the plan needs to be submitted for the preservation of the trees and the easement for the pedestrian. Norton/(can't hear). Franklin/Yes, now this is not being platted at this point, we're doing annexation and zoning and approval of this OPDH, the plat for this will come back. And Bruce has indicated that that will happen as soon as this goes on because one of the other This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 26 issues that came up as far as the neighbors were concerned was the width of the lots here, they were concerned that those be extra wide lots. Now the minimum lots size, lot width in RS-5 is 60 feet, the statements have been made that this is the plat that will come in. The Planning & Zoning Commission did not and I think it would probably would be difficult to put a condition on it for 83 foot lots. Kubby/Really, why so? Franklin/Well when you put a condition on, it should be the consequence of the zoning action that's being taken. And what is it about this zoning action and zoning that to RS-5 that gets you to the point of saying we should require 83 foot or whatever lots. Norton/Yea. Franklin/Ifthat's that case, shouldn't all RS-5 lots be 80 foot minimum lot sizes. Norton/(can't hear) with their lots. Franklin/Yea, yea. Yes, all though it's still smaller. Vanderhoef/(can't hear)40. Franklin/8,000, their small. 8,000 is the minimum lot size in RS-5. Kubby/Well I guess it probably wouldn't be, make a difference in protest the vote part of the neighbors concerns have been reduced because of that pledge and the pledge may or may, I mean not to say that I think it's going to be any different but because it's not locked in it can be different and it would have legal fights to make it different. Franklin/I don't know this for a fact, but I think the neighbors understand that that's not locked in. Cause that was stated at the Planning & Zoning Commission. Norton/Well what about traffic to the east, how did that (can't hear) work in, from Court on up to between Court and Lower West Branch what is it? Franklin/What we've done by by not having the road go through, there's one less spot where you can get over into this neighborhood over here. Basically from this area you'll need to go up to Lower West Branch down to Court or just over to Scott to get from here. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 27 (End of 99-43 Side 2). Franklin/That we do have efficient circulation in here to make this all work. Kubby/But it seems like a nice balancing and trying to get maximum circulation and still protecting the beautiful areas that are valuable to the neighborhood. Franklin/It was a matter of how much you lost by the road not being in there. And you lose some, one of the things that we anticipate will be happening here is your going to have kids from this neighborhood going over to Lemme and Lucas school. Well then it's very important that you have that pedestrian bicycle access. Maybe not as important that you have the vehicular. But what's going to happen is that the people in this area then are going to have to go this way or this way to get over to here. It makes their trip a little bit longer. But mostly that's a consequence of all this in here. Vanderhoef/Which is already there. Norton/Which is already there. Franklin/Which is there. Vanderhoef/You can't do anything about it. Champion/Well look at the bright side they won't have much traffic on their street. Norton/But that's a double loaded street there. Franklin/Here, these folks want, oh yes for them it will be nice, but it means over here there will be more. Norton/Yea. Franklin/Which is always the case. Champion/Right. Franklin/Yea, but it also, I would like to point out, also a point at which working with the idea of this map of this illustration that's gone. OK. We've balanced out a couple different policies and we're cool. Any questions about this one? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 28 Kubby/In terms of the tree protection plan it seems that from the discussion that I know this is just the rezoning so the details of that will be in the platting stage and it seems like it's pretty clear that the desire of the city is to have and be basically undisturbed and have as little impact during construction of the roadway or of the pedestrian access as possible. Franklin/Correct. Kubby/So that will, that will help that will essentially dictate where that access will be is that correct? Franklin/Yes. And I mean that was an expressed goal of the developers, the Planning & Zoning Commission so I think that there shouldn't be any problem with having that come out OK. Kubby/So in terms of, this is another double collapse one? Champion/(Can't hear). Lehman/Yea, I think so. Sounds right. Franklin/Yea, that's the request. Kubby/And they had stated that can we confirm that if we don't, well they say that they've got some construction contracts that the prices are good until a certain date and that's one reason why they need the double collapse, am I remembering that fight? Franklin/Is that, was that a letter to you? Lehman/Well I think, isn't it according to the funds their receiving from the state. Norton/Yea, they had to do it their (can't hear). Lehman/Their way past the time they should have staffed them anyway? Kubby/Right, but if we write a letter to the state saying we have a process and we're willing to collapse but and so they need one more extension until this date, I'm sure that the state would accommodate that when the city's writing a letter saying this is going forward but we have a process we need to complete. I mean ifthat's the big, if that's the big (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 29 Lehman/Pardon. O'Donnell/(Can't hear). Lehman/I don't know. Kubby/I just think it's a dangerous precedent we begin to set because I don't ever, there may have been one or two that I just don't remember but it's not something we've done and I don't want to start doing that. Vanderhoef/One of the things that I would say about this project is that there was a lot of input it sounds like at the P& Z meetings and people were OK and it came out of there with what a 5-1 ? Franklin/Yea. Norton/Yea, not all of them. Franklin/Yea, Ann voted against it. Vanderhoef/And I'm not heating any concems that we're stating about the plan itself. Norton/There were some pretty good concerns even though there was a 5-1 vote. There were considerable concerns expressed there, I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a quick call to find out, I wanted to ask in regard to that agency providing assistance. What's the duration of the commitment to senior housing? Franklin/20 years, yea. Lehman/20 years is right. I wouldn't have a problem with first consideration tomorrow night, that give us an opportunity the second time to decide yes or no if we want to collapse the second time. Vanderhoef/Yea. That would put people on notice and they'll be here for the public hearing at that point. Lehman/Tomorrow night? Vanderhoef/Yea. Lehman/Well I would hope they would be. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 30 Vanderhoef/Yea so they will hear that we have not made any changes and they'll be able to voice their changes and we can hear them and we can change them at another meeting if we hear something that we feel is necessary. Kubby/Could we confirm if it's the deadline and/or the money? Norton/Yea. Franklin/I've got a note to do that, to figure out what exactly is. Lehman/Well we could ask Beth tomorrow night. Norton/Or someone could call tomorrow and find out what the deal is. Lehman/OK. Franklin/Well Mr. Mazzotta will be. Lehman/He'll be here. Franklin/The fellow that's doing the development will be here. What about the 74 units versus the 72.9 Any thoughts? Lehman/Well he has no problem with that apparently? Franklin/I don't think so right Dee, I mean it was not a big deal there. Norton/Not that we know. Vanderhoef/But then today was not a. Franklin/No, and it is within the OPDH density guidelines to have 74. Lehman/Oh. Vanderhoef/I guess my question would be is how many of the units are set up for couples? I know primarily they work for singles in those senior housing because that's the way most they come about but I'm aware of some housing that did have some larger units for couples. Franklin/So you want to know how many units are for couples? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 31 Vanderhoef/Yes. Norton/You'd think some large units would be nice. Vanderhoef/Well my parents happen to be in one and it's different than the others that are in that particular housing unit and it's appropriate for most people. Kubby/I have another kind of a larger issue. Has staff ever talked about, I mean this is the third senior housing project in this one area of town and I guess I'm starting to feel that if this trend continues we're going to have some segregation. Franklin/The graying of Scott Boulevard. Kubby/That's right. I don't want segregation on the east side so. Lehman/Well we have one on the west side on Melrose too. Franklin/Well we've actually. Norton/We're going to have more too. Kubby/Not to say that there aren't other. Vanderhoef/Shannon Drive. Franklin/We've got three, yea there' s the Shannon Drive one, Shannon and Rohret, there is the Melrose Newbury development if that goes and then Walden Place. Norton/Well there's three there and three on Scott. Kubby/Right, maybe I didn't, I guess I wasn't trying to say that this is the only place that that but there's going to be a large stretch in this concentrated area where the housing will be higher density senior housing. It's going to be different levels of senior housing, I understand that but I guess I wouldn't want to see this continue so that Scott, all up and down Scott Boulevard or in that are of town there's this concentrated enclave. Vanderhoef/The only thing that we have going though is our policy is saying that we are going to put high density either apartment condo or senior type of housing near our arterial so. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 32 Kubby/I guess I want to spread it around the city so that it's all over and not here and here. Vanderhoef/When you've got. Norton/Well remember we tried to put it down on Taft Speedway once if I remember. Vanderhoef/Yep I do. Norton/It didn't work so well but, I was curious. Franklin/We have thought about that Karen in terms of where these are distributing but in looking at it with these other projects on the westside it seems to be balancing out, but. Kubby/It would be interesting to have a map, cause I know that when we talked about manufactured housing that if you color in the places in the city there is some concentration, it would be interesting to illustrate that somehow at some point. Vanderhoef/It would show up on Scott Boulevard, I agree with you on that. Norton/Oh yea. Vanderhoef/And to meet our policy of putting high densities into the arterial you know it may be colored for senior housing or it may be colored for multifamily living of some description but it's still going to be the larger size project. Kubby/But we have more than one or two or three or four arterials (can't hear). Norton/Yea. Franklin/Yea. Norton/I have a concern or question. This is one of the cases that I would very much like to have the computerized view of this structure from both east and from west, I guess those two aspects. In other words (can't hear). Franklin/You mean a computer simulation, a computer simulation. Norton/Yea, it would be really nice and I'm sure some of the people on P & Z seem to have the same feeling. It's hard to understand how it's going to appear up on that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 33 hill from a distance, but I don't whether that's reasonable to ask. And incidentally where are maps, are they in previous file, their not here. Kubby/You mean the rendering? Norton/No, where are our maps? Karr/You had requested them to be sent out in an off week so they were in the April 9 packet. Lehman/That's right. Norton/They are, oh their already in there. Karr/At your request. Norton/Their already in the other there in the other one. OK. Thank you. Franklin/Now you guys messed yourselves up. That's a general question, we send you something early, do you expect it again then when you have the public hearing? Norton/No, no. We're supposed to go back. Lehman/No, we should remember. Vanderhoef/I would request. I was in with the same question today, because I was trying to search this and I found out that I can't search by the number with unless I need the dash out so I can't find it later but I learned something new. Anyway for me to have the information early I'd like it in hard copy and then have the be on the disk at the time of the meeting. Lehman/Well you can print the hard copy though. Vanderhoef/Well. Norton/Yea. Lehman/Well you can always print that. Norton/(can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 34 Vanderhoef/I know you can always do that, I guess we always excepted it in the meeting where it was going to be discussed so that you can access it rapidly. Norton/We knew this was going to be complicated and therefore in order to have the detailed minutes and the figures to think about it we have to have it early and I think that was fine. I just should of run it off that's all. O'Donnell/(Can't hear). Norton/Oh, I can make it (can't hear). (A few talking). Franklin/In terms of the computer simulations get elevations of the buildings. Are you asking for computer simulation is different yea? Norton/Yea, that's right (can't hear). Franklin/Well I think you would have to consider making that a requirement of the submittals. Norton/No, that would be pretty heavy duty I guess. Until Larry gets upgraded on his computer we'll have to wait. Schnittjer/(can't hear). Vanderhoef/I think that he said no. Franklin/Moving on. Lehman/Moving on. i. Consider an ordinance amending City Code subsection 14-4B pertaining to a change in Board of Adjustment notice requirements and incorporation of Board powers and procedures into the Zoning Chapter. (Second consideration) Franklin/Item I is the second consideration of the Board of Adjustment stuff. j. Consider a resolution approving a preliminary and final plat of Milder Meadows, a 43.4-acre, two-lot residential subdivision with one outlot located in Fringe Area B at 4872 American Legion Road. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 35 Franklin/Item J is the preliminary and plat of Milder Meadows. The applicants have requested deferral to May 4 so they can be here. Kubby/Why might we find it acceptable that they don't meet the rule design standards for the street? Because of the individual circumstance? Is it going to go anywhere else? Franklin/No, it's not because we've made that other lot that has to be in agriculture forever, or until it's annexed to the city which is (can't hear). Kubby/I mean so is that way it's acceptable to have it be less than urban standards? Franklin/I don't know, I'll find out. Kubby/OK. Franklin/I just don't, I don't remember, we've gone through this so many times. Kubby/I'm just being (can't hear) like this is, oh really. (Somebody talking in background, can't hear). Franklin/Does it, because it doesn't go anywhere? Oh, OK. Lehman/Well, just call it no name road, we'll have two of them. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Kubby/It just feels like we've really kind of torqued around trying to accommodate something that was done inappropriately in the beginning and I, it's frustrating. O'Donnell/Right. Vanderhoef/I don't disagree with you. Franklin/Yea. Kubby/You know we're talking about the spirit of the comprehensive plan instead of the words of it and they don't have to confirm to some standards. Hope that doesn't happen again. Maybe with the county building codes this would make a difference. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 36 man/That should help. Lehman/OK. Franklin/I'm done. Lehman/Thank you. Review Agenda Items 99-46 S1 1. (Agenda #12- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AMENDING FEES AND TIMED DURATION FOR SOUND EQUIPMENT PERMITS.) Lehman/One of the agenda items that we're going to review is regarding the fee for sound permits and Lisa's here to answer any questions for it. I think the recommendation is that the fee. Norton/Drop it wasn't it? Lehman/Amounts to hassle amounts to more than the fee is worth and that we would, I think the recommendation is that we do not charge a fee if you'd like to stand behind that little thing that Karin knocked apart. Lisa Mollenhauer/Just because I stay doesn't mean I need to talk. Are there any questions? Lehman/Are there any questions for Lisa? Kubby/No, I think it's a great idea, instead of streamlining it, it makes it easier for community groups to use public space. Norton/Absolutely. Lehman/OK. Mollenhauer/Good. Kubby/Thank you. Lehman/That was, you did always great. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 37 (Agenda 4e(2). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR MAY 4 ON PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE WESTMINSTER SANITARY SEWER IMPROVEMENT PROJECT, DIRECTING CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF SAID HEARING, AND DIRECTING THE CITY ENGINEER TO PLACE SAID PLANS ON FILE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.) Kubby/I, because there's going to be some improvements to the park is that going to be surface trenching or is to going to be board???? so the park is not disturbed? Anybody know? Rick Fosse/That will open cut and we're working with the parks department to keep the clearances from the trees that we hope to be keep them healthy. Kubby/Have we done notification to neighbors along Westminster and along the park? Fosse/Yes, yes we have and we have a neighborhood meeting coming up with them next week. Should I go over the funding thing with them now Steve? Atkins/Sure. Fosse/Now that I brought it up OK. Atkins/No. Fosse/Oh OK. Lehman/You just want to go home that' s all. Kubby/I feel it kind of suspicious right. Fosse/ Yea, since some of our projects have come in higher than we estimated this year, we're not sure whether we've got enough, or we're not sure we want to do this one this year financially. We're going to go ahead and begin the bidding process. During the bidding process for this project we will receive bids on Foster Road and that may help us make this decision and ultimately we'll get bids on this project and at that point we'll be in a position to make a decision to do it this year or next year. And at the neighborhood meeting we'll prepare the neighborhood for that option so their aware. Keep in mind this one's already been pushed off once already. We were going to do it last year, it slid because of our workload, hopefully it won't slide again this year because of financial reasons but it's possible. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 38 Norton/But it depends on other projects or this one? Fosse/Both. Vanderhoef/Both. Norton/On both. Vanderhoef/OK. Lehman/OK. 3. Atkins/Ernie, under the council agenda-council time I want to request a work session on library funding and all that, do you want to do that now or (can't hear). Lehman/Yea, we can do that now while we're. Atkins/Well there are four issues that I'm, we need some time to discuss. The parking financing, until we decide what to do with the Senior Center we can't confirm the final parking ramp financing. You have a request from the library to meet with them on the 17th, I wrote you a memo outlining some of those issues, we do need to spend loads of time to work through it. Tonight when we do Stormwater management Rick is going to do (can't hear) split this up, first part of the program is federal requirements and so forth, then in a separate meeting I'd like to do financing with you. And then finally we talked about a goal session update that is I wrote a memo to you outlining those issues (can't hear). So I've got those four pretty good size items pending. I think the meeting with the library and parking ramp financing would take a good block, (can't hear) a couple hours (can't hear). So it's just a matter to pick a time. Norton/I'm (can't hear) the Senior Center issue is going to be in there too because we had a meeting with the, oh we'll talk about it at council time, we had a meeting with them and there's still confusion about the county's interest in the role and feel that they haven't been discussed, we haven't met with them to talk about this. When do we have our county, our joint meeting coming up with the county? O'Donnell/Thursday night, Wednesday (can't hear) of this week. Norton/Thursday night. Lehman/This Thursday. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 39 Kubby/Yea. Norton/Would this be a, would that be a, is that agenda already fixed? Karr/Yes. Norton/Does that include Senior Center on it? Karr/Yes, (can't hear). Norton/Oh good. OK well we'll discuss that but perhaps some clarification will come out but they want to wait till they hear from that page reviews process so I don't know how soon that senior center thing is going to be be discussed? Atkins/Well, the other thing folks and I'm trying to explain this best I could and shorten the memorandum. All those things are weaved together. You're going to have to decide, you know decide what. Something's going to pop out of somewhere else so, I understand your interest in having the county involved in the thing but I think as a council we can begin to prep forward (can't hear). Kubby/That's fight, and if it's a high priority we might have conditions on that pfiority and we can do that. Atkins/Absolutely, that's what I need to hear from you. Norton/But we have another session with them on the 7th of May and some work to do between now and then. Arkins/Oh, with your. Norton/The subcommittee talking about the Senior Center. Atkins/Well I need some time with you for those things. Particularly to work through that. Kubby/So do we need to try to find a date is that what your? Lehman/Let's do it. Atkins/I would like to have. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 40 Kubby/That's going to be challenging. Atkins/Yes, you can theoretically wait until the meeting of Monday the 3rd. Norton/Let's don't crowd everything there. Atkins/And you are going to hearing shortly on the parking ramp. Champion/(Can't hear) work session. Lehman/What is the, yea, I agree. What's the week of the 26th, do you have a. Karr/I've got a council member, one council member gone the full week. Lehman/The whole week. Norton/What's the next week? What's that, is that the? Karr/The week of the 10th? Or the off week? Lehman/Well the week of the 3rd, I mean we do meet Monday and Tuesday but you know we've got several things that Steve wants to talk about and the other thing I think it would be if we could schedule at the same time, we could meet like at 4:00 in the afternoon, work on Steve's concerns, then maybe break and then do evaluations later, the same day, instead of making two meetings out of it. Kubby/(can't hear). O'Donnell/What is there to observe? Atkins/Ernie the only observation, that's really pretty early too, to do. That's fine. Norton/We've often done those at 5:00. Atkins/1 just need to get to you, I just need to get this parking ramp financing and all these. I suspect your going to ask a whole lot of questions about variety of scenario 's so we need to have prepped for some of that. Kubby/How about the 5th of May? Is everyone in for the 5th of May? Lelunan/It's a Wednesday. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 41 Karr/Wednesday. Kubby/It's the Wednesday after council, so it would be three nights. Norton/When's JCCOG? Champion/Oh you know, why couldn't we do it in the morning then, I really don't want to be gone (can't hear). Letunan/OK. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Kubby/I have a 10:00 appointment but if we're done by noon I'd be willing to change my appointment to do a morning thing. Lehman/How about the 6th, does that work for anybody, Thursday? Kubby/No, I'm teaching a class, and I can't change, it's a conference. I could do morning but I can. Norton/What about later this week? O'Donnell/Why don't we just come in early on the 3rd, come in at 4:00 (can't hear). Lehman/I don't think that, we've got too much to work on, I'm not sure that we want to tie that up with another meeting. Norton/That's fight. Lehman/And we're talking about some pretty heavy stuff. Norton/Yea. Atkins/And there are things that you've got to decide. Vanderhoef/Probably a couple of hours. Atkins/You've got to (whistle) up or down. Vanderhoef/And priorities are going to need. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 42 Lehman/And we do need to do this soon, rather soon I think. Vanderhoef/The 5th or the 6th I can do. Norton/If it's going to have to be at night, find a time. Lehman/Well does the 5th work? Norton/Connie doesn't want two nights, she wants it one night. Champion/That's three nights. Kubby/But Wednesday during the day I can move my appointment. Lehman/Well can we meet at 8:00 in the morning on the 5th. Champion/In the morning, yes. Karr/OK. Kubby/I know Mike you don't like (can't hear). Karr/8:00 the 5th. O'Donnell/What's wrong with 8:30? Lehman/Well 8:00. Vanderhoef/8:30 or 9:00 would. Atkins/Discipline yourselves and get home early after work. Norton/I'll put on the Saturday the 6th Ernie. (All talking). Norton/Give us a little break in there Ernie. Put it on Thursday the 6th. Kubby/I can't do the 6th, and I can't change what I have. Lehman/Karen can't. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 43 Norton/Oh, I'm sorry. Lehman/Wednesday morning that will work. Norton/Fine. Karr/Wednesday the 5th. O'Donnell/8:00 is fine. Lehman/That's fine. Karr/Wednesday the 5th. Lehman/Let's meet at 8:00. Kubby/Until? Lehman/Well probably until 10:00 1 would think anyway. Kubby/Oh, that's not realistic. Norton/Make it longer than that, that's not. Lehman/Well you know, we try for 10:00 and then we know we'll be out by 12:00. Kubby/No, because if we say 10:00 I'll make a 10:30 or 11:00 appointment. Lehman/No you won't. Champion/Well why don't you make it later 10:30 or 11:00. Atkins/Let's decide, can we decide what the issues are, parking ramp financing, and then a whole. I don't think you're going to be able to decide that library bond, community events, Senior Center, but I sure would like to get kind of a ski~my it up a little bit and make sure. Vanderhoef/Got to. Atkins/Particularly you need to do things for you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the lowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 44 Kubby/Can we say 8:00 to noon and then if we end early if we get burned out, you know it's too overwhelming we can? (All talking) Champion/We'll be out of here by 8-11. Lehman/Well but I do think, we do need to decide. (All talking). Norton/8-noon and then your fine. O'Donnell/(can't hear) Lehman/8:00 just you and I. Atkins/It's Wednesday morning the 5th. Lehman/Right. O'Donnell/Let's go 8-11 in the morning. Atkins/OK. We'll bring some food so. (All talking). Norton/What did they decide? Lehman/8:00. Norton/8 to when? Kubby/11:00. O'Donnell: 11. Champion/(can't hear). Norton/And Steve you'll pick the items that need the most timely? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 45 Atkins/Well I need parking ramp financing and your meeting with the library, I'm assuming you want to talk about this, you have a letter that makes a request to you. Champion/And somehow we need to get a grip on how we will audit (can't hear). Lehman/Well the Senior Center expansion, if we do that is going to really impact the finance of the parking so I mean that's all three will tie the vote. Atkins/You can't wrap up the parking ramp financing until you make this decision. Lehman/Right. All right. Norton/The thing is then we can't finish till after the 7th, well, we'll try but I don't. Champion/Well we need to get some idea about where people are coming from. Vanderhoef/When we find out what (can't hear) finances are possible. Norton/Yea, let's put together, do the financial. Lehman/All right. Champion/(Can't hear). Lehman/OK. Other agenda. I'm sorry. Champion/Steve, when was our next meeting with the county? Norton/May 7, 10:00. Champion/Well, then we can't do that. Norton/Well we won't have all the answers about where they stand on it, but we can, as Dee says we can review the financing options. Chan~pion/OK so we. Norton/And that won't affect how we proceed perhaps on the 7th. Atkins/I would like at the very least you would be armed with significant information when you sit down with the county and say here's where we are. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April l 9, 1999 Council Work Session Page 46 Champion/I like that. 4. (Agenda #15- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION CERTIFYING UNPAID WATER, WASTEWATER, SOLID WASTE AND RECYCLING CHARGES, INCLUDING FEES AND PENALTIES, TO JOHNSON COUNTY FOR COLLECTION IN THE SAME MANNER AS A PROPERTY TAX.) O'Donnell/Did anybody read this delinquent water goals... Norton/Yes. O'Donnell/$300.00 water bills and my concern was weren't notifying the landlord in a reasonable amount of time before the returning the damage deposit. So I spoke to Don today and Don says 22 days after the final bill was notified, the landlord then we have another, a letter goes out 50 days after the water bill, my question is, how, if$300.00 in some of these water bills just have to do with a period of 7-8 months. Lehman/I don't think that's right because we shut them off long before that. O'Donnell/Except I saw one for $28.00 and I saw one for $290.00. Lehman/Some of those could be apartment buildings with 10 or 12 apartments, it could be a one month water bill. O'Donnell/Well that's right, some of those buildings have to have $290 for like a single unit. I'm just wondering how long we let this go before we (can't hear)? Atkins/You could have a really high read in a month, you could have a leak, there are all kinds Mike that could occur, and we wouldn't know it until we do the routine reading. Vanderhoef/A four bedroom apartment. Kubby/If you gave one of those 5 bedroom apartments and a leak. Atkins/Oh, that could be easy, I'm surprised if it wasn't $1,000. (can't hear). Kubby/Yea, like Dave Moore. Atkins/Yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 47 O'Donnell/Well then I have another incident where we have a property on Dubuque Street that was listed as a four plex and in relative it was 5, (can't hear). And we over a period of over have been billing as a four plex and then we discovered the error and went back five years to a total orS1,700. Norton/We split the difference. O'Donnell/We split the difference, that's still $800.00 and I just. Champion/But the people knew about the (can't hear). O'Donnell/No they didn't. Well Connie as you sit there and look through your water bill, if you get a bill and your paying I know this was one not his mistake. Kubby/Well and it's a honest mistake on our part too and that's what the policy is about because if the property that use those resources the services from the city doesn't pay the bill, the rest of the rate payers have to pay and that's, and so we thought it's a mistake on their part, it's a mistake on our part and that's how the policy came about, split it in half. Norton/We went through this with great agony yea. Kubby/We could go back further couldn't we? So we decided five years was (can't hear). O'Donnell/I thought we had a (can't hear). Norton/Well I thought at one time we had. Lehman/Do you think we do, yea. Kubby/We always find it. Norton/We have that hassle with a number of people in exactly the same situation but I think most of us felt that the person had some idea they wanted to build without a whack with that many units but maybe not. So we figured with an honest mistake on their part and an honest mistake on our part. O'Donnell/I think it would be if it were a duplex getting billed for one, but I can't 4 versus 5. But again ifthat's the policy. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 48 Norton/It would be hard to articulate a new policy though I can't quite see how. Dilkes/It's not just a policy though, it's in the ordinance. Yea and we, I'm just reminding you that we went through this back-billing a couple years ago and also to point out that when their over charged they get a 100 percent of the refund. They only 50 percent of what we haven't charged. Kubby/So Don in this memo too that we got it says that water fees will not be collected to the new assessment or delinquent account if it's residential rental property. And the account holder is the tenant why wouldn't we? Don Yucuis/That's a state law. There's a law on that and there's, their trying to, their working on changing and in fact I think they just voted in a change which will not affect this lien process but the next time it comes through I think water will be included. Kubby/Has this always been the case? Dilkes/Yes. Vanderhoef/It has. And the $5,000 in public change there's a lot of work and staff time that I don't see that we gain anything I think we lose (can't hear) and the overhead of doing that that process but I don't know what would happen if there weren't a process and how many would not pay up then, one hand disk on the other hand the other. If that has been changed at the state level has there been any request again to take the tax off of the state, the state sales tax off of water. Atkins/Still working on that the week. Vanderhoef/For the cities. Atkins/For everything. They want to get the sales tax off of water. It's not going anywhere. Vanderhoef/OK. This is one of the things that I think this council could write a letter about again. O'Donnell/Sales tax off of water. Vanderhoef/Take sales tax offof water, because we're paying sales tax too the state to fill the swimming pools in Iowa City and. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 49 Kubby/That would be something to work on early next session before final date to make sure someone from our delegation understands that. Norton/We're not going to write it here. Vanderhoef/I think this is true but I would like to see it put on a letter sent now in that if there's any committees that work over the summer on taxes then this is one of them that' s in front of them again. Norton/I thought we had Steve on that committee to advise the tax laws. Vanderhoef/Well there are several we want to take the tax off of the recreation activities, and. Lehman/I thought we had in fact taken off the water the city itself uses. Vanderhoef/No, we tried. Atkins/(can't hear) the recreation fee sales tax. Lehman/All right anything else that's not on the agenda that we're going to talk about. Vanderhoef/Can we have a letter? Norton/Let's have a letter. Lehman/Yea, let's do letter. Norton/There's four people for a letter. Lehman/Any other agenda items? Norton/Strongly worded. Vanderhoef/Strongly worded. Lehman/OK. 5. (Agenda #7- PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING THE FY00 ANNUAL ACTION PLAN, INCLUDING THE FY00 COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) AND HOME INVESTMENT PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM (HOME) BUDGET, FOR IOWA CITY.) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 50 Vanderhoef/I have something on the CDBG monies, does anyone have any concerns with things that are on the list? I have one concern and I'm just curious whether I'm the only one that. Lehman/What's that? Vanderhoef/My concern still is whether this is the right time to be putting an elevator into Old Brick. Champion/Well I don't think $20,000 is for an elevator. Lehman/Well that'll help. Vanderhoef/It isn't and that's part of it. The other part is I have my question answered about the liability of that building. I talked with Kevin Monson and he's the one whose working with the committee so that part is OK but there's a lot of things that need to be done on the building and at this point they don't even have an estimate of the cost of all those things and to start putting in $20,000 right now at a later time if it fit into the whole picture I think I could be real positive about putting an elevator in there, but up front right now when we don't know how much it's going to cost and whether they have the ability to raise the money to do more of that activity and whether their going to receive any of these other large grants that they applied for and don't have an answer on I. Norton/Their only supporting aren't they one human service agency now aren't they? Lehman/Everet Connor's. Norton/Yea, isn't that it? Vanderhoef/That' s the only one that I know of right now but there may be some. Norton/So it's not massive support for the. Vanderhoef/No, and when I looked at the HCDC commission on the first go around there were a number of people that said they didn't want to put any money into it. And so then it that apparently changed with their conversation but there was still some concern evidently from some of those folks. Lehman/I think part of this is accessibility issue on the Old Brick? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 51 O'Donnell/Absolutely. Vanderhoef/Well it is and there thinking in terms of using the building and renting it for more and one of the questions I asked the chair of them when I talked to Ms. Gerlick was and if the building becomes totally accessible then do you have plans to change the rents for the spaces because obviously the space becomes more valuable and this is a value added in there. And she said no, they hadn't had any of those conversations yet either so. Norton/My problem with that is. Kubby/And that's when they can less accessible when the price goes up so that's kind of a compromise. Norton/My problem with the process one Dee I, you know that's a pretty good size book and by the time you go through the whole thing it takes more than a brief weekend. And yet I guess the only time we had a serious discussion of it was that April 5 wasn't it? When we had a few people from the Housing and Community Development Commission here but at that point I thought we were just raising preliminary concerns, then I got my nitty gritty concerns together now it's practically gone, cause I had other, for example, I can see places where we're funding repairs of the mental health center, but somehow it ought to be programmed into any agency and the county and Coralville and other people who use that ought to be contributing to those capital costs to keep that thing in repair, it's going to go downhill again I mean, it needs a roof every you know X years. So I don't, it seems to me kind of irrational to proceed this way when something you know is a capital project that's got to be supported with reserves so and I don't know they, fees that may be charged or the county and include overhead piece I don't know so I ran into a series of questions. Vanderhoef/I agree with you. Norton/And I wrote them to Steve but I'm kind of late to be bringing them up at this point I think, that's my problem, I think that's true on a good many of these. We're funding but nobody else even though there are a variety of users are not carrying their weight in my judgment. So I don't know whether it's timely to start changing these things around now but. Vanderhoef/And this is something that we need to add to our priority list or something that we want the Commission to look at in another year ongoing. Norton/What I did was write my concerns down. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 52 Vanderhoef/Overhead expenses need to be planned on a regular basis. Norton/And several of these are that way, you know. You go back to MECCA or something and you can identify who their services, who they're serving and therefore the support for them ought to be somehow prorated and capital expenses ought to be programmed in either their (can't hear) structure or in some other more systematic way that hoping for community development block grant money. But I think what I'm going to do now is write my concerns, I've always discussed them with Steve and see what we can do next year. I know the committee. Vanderhoef/Which Steve, we've got. Norton/Steve Nasby Vanderhoef/OK. Kubby/I know the other place, thought it would be too late at this point but during the United Way budget hearing the councilor representative (can't hear) could be asking agencies that question, you know where is your money for capital expenditures for no maintenance issues. Atkins/I don't think many of them I know that, I don't think the county government (can't hear) I don't think they use depreciation accounts like we do, where we actually make an incrementally that those meetings might not need some capital infusion when you don't have sufficient depreciation and I'm not so sure they do that there. Vanderhoef/Well it seems. Atkins/I think the human service agencies simply because many of them operate on a shoe string anyway so. Kubby/Yea, it's hard for them to have that. Lehman/Well can't management of the county seldom take into depreciation as a factor and yet you have to replace things. Kubby/Yea. Norton/And I understand their trying to keep there fees down where they charge a fee and keep those nominal so it would come fight out of the hides of people who can This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 53 hardly afford it but I don't, it's not so much that as I want to be sure it's shared among the various agencies that use these services as that is certainly not just Iowa City. Kubby/Well we're not getting that operating now. Vanderhoef/Well fight now though we have a couple more agencies that have purchased their facilities and now's the time to put, if this is what we want in a policy, then this is the time to put them on notice that these are the things that we expect of them and that we're not necessarily going to approve funding for the emergency because all at once the roof is totally gone. Kubby/If you look at it the other way, a lot of these agencies have higher percentage of Iowa City residents than unincorporated county residents. The county pays a, 40 percent of their budget goes to human services, we even though we feel like we're contributing a lot it's not fractioned I mean, it is a fraction, but it's not a you know a huge amount of the human service budget and one of, you know, one of that tradeoffs is maybe some of our CDBG monies goes to some of the capital. Norto~f Well I'm a county resident, and I'm paying both ways, I'm paying both ways remember this thing chopped me every way but up and including up and so I'm a county tax payer and accounting for half the county taxes fight now. So I don't, I mean the allocated money that's allocated for them for mental health and all the rest of these issues is something that ought to be incorporated that's all. I think we need to look these over pretty carefully, maybe make some statement before they go into this next year whether any of the agencies or whether any of these allocations that we ask of that. Vanderhoef/Or both. Norton/All of these are desperate needs, I'm not denying that at all. It's just a matter of shares. Kubby/Maybe the discussion has to happen earlier, I mean once we approve this budget they're kind of in their off-season for, you know, their major part of their work and so maybe this is an issue that we could ask them to discuss. Norton/Well these are things we need to talk about. Kubby/Way before the next budget. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 54 Norton/At the meetings with the county and school board, I'm getting tired of just kicking the ball around there and not getting anywhere, I want to get onto some hamme and...issues with these folks and this is one. OK. Kubby/You bring the hammer I'll bring the (can't hear). Norton/Mostly we just eat cookies or something like that. (All laughing). O'Donnell/That's the only reason I come. Lehman/I think Karen, I think your fight, I mean obviously we go through the process but if there are concerns and obviously there are that those concerns should be communicated to those folks very soon after this so that, you know we did change the guidelines two years ago. Norton/Yea. Lehman/And if we need to change them again then we change them again. Norton/Well before they go into it again we should meet off season, meet with the Housing Community Development and express our concerns with them but some of them need to be formally and directly to the other agencies, county and Coralville (can't hear). Lehman/OK. Norton/I'm still not sure how I feel about the elevator. Vanderhoef/OK, well we'll talk about it tomorrow. Atkins/Ready for Recycling Center? Lehman/I think it will take about three minutes. Actually it will take five. Champion/It might take 7 or 8. Lehman/OK. We're doing a recycling center. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 55 Recyclinll Center 99-47 S1 Dan Scott/I'd like to start out tonight with a question. I know that might be unusual but how many of you have all been to the Iowa City land fill? Norton/Your going to have to get fight into that microphone. Scott/Can everybody hear me now? Lehman/Yea. Scott/Has everyone been there? O'Dom~ell/What's the question? Scott/How many of you have been to the landfill? Lehman/Land fill. Scott/ Has everyone been there? OK. So, I just wanted to make sure that you all realize it is an industrial site, it is a large facility there's big trucks out there, there's heavy construction equipment out there, and there's a lot of things going on out there and your in a small car and your taking out things it can be very intimidating to people and I think, and it can also be confusing. And so what we have here is our future vision of the Iowa City landfill. Norton/Looks like a Kentucky horse barn. O'Donnell/Looks like we could rent it out. Lehman/Kind of looks like a roundhouse in a railroad yard. Scott/That's very intentional, suppose to bring (can't hear). Lehman/OK. Shoot. Scott/We are already in place a long-term plan, last year we did a lot of planning and put a lot of planning efforts into the landfill, we now have our master plan and we now have our land fill policy statement and basically from those we have a commitment to the site for at least 30 years and more if we choose to so we're going to be at this site for a long time with our land filling operations, we just felt it made a lot of sense to increase the services that we provide to the public and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 56 also make the sight more user friendly at the same time. And we have several ideas included in this proposal that we fill will accomplish that. And there all pretty well listed out here in your packet but I guess I'd like to go through them also just to kind of discuss them with you real quickly here. We had a nice little storm last summer that pretty much destroyed our existing weigh station at the landfill so we need to rebuild that. And also there are some features of the landfill that have been there for ever since it opened for example, the scale is almost 30 years old and it's need of some renovations. So there are some parts to the site that we need to do some renovation work to so we wanted to include that work along with this proposal to kind of tie everything together and to make it more cost effective. So some ofthat's included in here as well. And we also felt that since we would be building a new structure out there for our weight station it made a lot of sense to go ahead and include the household chemical waste facility and along with that a waste exchange and some kind of an educational component to try and promote recycling and reclamation and basically existing solid waste technologies and things that people can do to reduce the amount of solid waste that both helps us out and helps out the environment. So let's dive right in here, what I'd like to do is go through the site which is kind of over here and there's also another drawing in your packet that we can look at also and what I wanted to do was go through some of the reorganization of the site that we hope to do to make it more user friendly and then I'd like John Shaw our architect to come up here to talk about the building and some of the environmental ideas that we have in the construction of that so we can show people that we not only talk the talk we walk the walk so to speak. So, I'm going to try and move this over here. (can't hear) See this, the entire side kind of starts at the entrance here, we wanted to start off with a new one, we want everyone to come to the entrance and have some signage here so that they know where their going and what their doing, that's kind of our effort to get off on the right track here, so everyone comes in here, then basically the traffic is divided into two pieces. Pretty much everyone that goes to the sight is either paying to dispose or their bringing out things to recycle that the services are free. So the commercial haulers and the people that are paying fall right onto the new scale and that's fight here. And if you look at the 3- dimensional sketch (can't hear) and if you look at the 3-dimensional sketch everyone pulls in right here, that's where the new weight station is, that's the little silo looking thing with the windows around it, this provides nice visual view of the entire site from, right there, you can see all aspects of the site. Norton/Hold your finger on the silo. CHANGE TAPE TO REEL 99-46 SIDE 2 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 57 Scott/The scale and that's where the money is exchanged and that's where the person to person contact is placed fight there. So all the paying customers pull onto the scale and from there there directed to where ever they need to go throughout the entire site. What we tfied to do is to set up a. Norton/Does the person have to walk out to them there? Do they have to walk out to them? Scott/No. Lehman/No. Scott/No, it's 'set up so that he can, it's like a. Norton/Like a. Scott/Like a fast food restaurant with a little. Norton/Drive-through. Scott/Like Burger King. Lehman/Fast food in a dump, there you go. Vanderhoef/The grain elevator is (can't hear). Scott/OK. I tried to set up the site on looping system so that it would just people get through the system. We're still going to be operating the same existing services are compost and our used oil, scrap iron, cardboard, and solid waste, tires and appliances. And some of those free are some of those are pay items but basically with having everything up here the small cars and trucks that go out there don't have to go down to working base, they can stay up in here on the paved surfaces so it's going to be more convenient for them and it's just going to be a lot more user friendly and then when we tried to set it up so it's convenient to both the paying customers and the nonpaying customers and the way we've done that is that the nonpaying customers can go right through the site, either going around the scale down to the cardboard and waste oil and all of these the same recycling containers that we collect curbside and we'll also include glass and three types of glass and cardboard and newspaper. So that we drop off locations here that you can just get to and drive on through the system your not in anybody's way and you don't have to pay, you can also go over here and this of course will be our new chemical waste facility and it you look at back to our sketch you'll pull in This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 58 right up along in here underneath this canopy and this is what your looking at and again we realize some people coming out here this will be a new experience to them and there not going to know where to go so again we'll have the signage telling which lane to get into, if your paying, if your not paying, and usually what will happen is that they'll end up at one of these two places by default anyway so right here they'll have person to person interaction which we can tell them where to go and which lane they need to be in. If they end up over here we'll have a speaker box and as you can see from this (can't hear) the operator in here can the speaker box will be right here so you'll be able to see people over there and you can talk into the speaker box if you have questions you can have them answered that way and you can get on through the system. But this will be the chemical waste facility, this is by appointment only. You pull up under the canopy, you'll be unloaded and then the doors here into the facility and if, for example, they have a mix load, maybe their coming out, maybe they've just cleaned out their garage, maybe they've got things that they want to drop off at the chemical waste facility and maybe they also have used tires or something that need to be dropped off down here so they can get on through the system and then on and out. Lehman/That's not going to be open on Sundays is it? Scott/No, it's open Monday through Saturdays 7-4. Norton/When you come around to this side, to drop different, let's suppose I've got some fluorescent tubes or something. I take it to one of these specialty places or which one is that? Scott/The main building right here. That will be for batteries, and fluorescent light bulbs and (can't hear). Norton/OK, but if I'm going over to the other one let's say with magazines or something. Scott/Yep. Norton/Are the cars lined up, fight now for example, you're always backing into somebody trying to get out of there. Scott/Right. Norton/I don't, do you avoid that problem? Scott/That is a good question, we realize that when the facility first opens there probably is going to be a line of cars to get to this facility but we hope that by offering the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 59 drop sites for the recycling and I mean you don't have to have an appointment to do that. Norton/Even when your at a drop site I mean there' s more than one car there, are they parallel to each other, behind one another, on top of one another? Kubby/Well there's no markings on the pavements will there be? Scott/No. Kubby/So people will just. Shaw/There's plenty, there's plenty of speculation. Kubby/You have to come up and talk. Shaw/It, there may be some congestion because of the number of containers but on average we don't think it's going to be that busy that the facilities open enough hours during the day (can't hear). Norton/A list. Kubby/How will we, especially for tires, cause you have to pay for tires, how will you ensure that people pay the appropriate fee and not just drive around and? Scott/OK. That's a good question and that's something that we talked about quite a bit actually. That goes back to the visual observation from this window we can see the exit. So basically this, the operator here will be able to see what's going on at all the drop sites and if someone leaves we'll know. Kubby/Well how do you know they have tires to note, I mean all your going to be watching to make sure they, aren't watching me when I put them, when that truck comes in that's when I'm going to take my tires out of my trunk and put them in the bin. Lehman/You just by with it. Scott/Well I guess maybe we won't catch everyone but we'll try. Champion/Well the good thing about it most people are basically honest. Scott/They'll. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 60 Kubby/But they might not realize that there's a fee because it's in with all the other things that you can just drive up and do your oil and everything else and so it may not be that their trying but that your setting it up in a way physically that indicates well there's nothing different about tires than about the waste oil or the other materials. Scott/Well that will all go back to the signing also. We'll have the prices on the signs so that as you drive into the facility and you' 11 know what you have and what your going to be paying. Kubby/Well I guess if that becomes a problem we might need to switch some things around but. Scott/It could be. Kubby/If they don't pay we have to pay at some point. Scott/Yea, but they're not throwing them in the ditch you know, at least we're. Kubby/Right, your not having to (can't hear). Scott/It's not going to be perfect. Lehman/No, but I think that's a good point, the person whose going to cheat and is going to try to dispose of a tire without paying for them isn't going to go out here where he can get caught, he's going to dump it in the ditch. O'Donnell/That's true. Vanderhoef/And we still had the. John Shaw/They tell me I have to speak in the microphone. That point has been addressed with this site plan, from this vantage point, this individual not only has direct visual access through all the operations here but they know who and when any vehicle has you know, what vehicle has entered and when that vehicle has entered the system. There will be verbal direction regardless of whether the vehicle comes through the upper lane or the lower lane, there will be verbal direction, there will be visual monitoring, the three top reclamation stations will be the pay stations, there in a very very close proximity visually to the person who sits in this control point at all times and the people will already have come through and received direction as to where to go. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 61 Kubby/So you kind of have to stop there? Shaw/Yes, yes, there's, there in fact there will be a stop here and here because as trucks and car come back up through the system, a lot of these trucks are going to have to weigh twice, once full and once empty. So they all have to come back up through the system and as they come back through, they will que here and it will be like a 4-way stop. They'll, you'll alternate as you pass here, so everybody is going to receive direction from the individual that sits at the control point. Kubby/So on a busy day that person really needs to keep track cause they've got many directions to supervise. Vanderhoef/John, we're talking the four, where there going to have to stop and accrue a stop, is there something that is going to make sure that when you come into the system that you don't swing around the wrong direction and get into the drop area without going past the station? Shaw/There really, do you mean they'll come down through? Scott/They'll cut through there. Vanderhoef/Yea, they' 11 cut through there. Shaw/This is going to be a one-way, it's going to be set up as a one-way road and it's going to have. Vanderhoef/So there will be no way that you can get make a right hand turn there, it'll be set up in such a way that you couldn't go the wrong way and come back. Norton/Put dragon teeth. Scott/There you go. Yea, that's a good point, we'll have to set up that intersection so that you can't do that. Vanderhoef/Cause if I don't know that I have to go that way and I know where my flee drop places are, it would be faster not to go past all the scale and stuff because I know I don't have anything to pay for. Shaw/But if you don't know where your going at this point it's counter intuitive to take a right and come back down through here when you realize that all the direction and activity and facilities are down through here. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 62 Vanderhoef/But after you know the system and you know you don't have to pay for anything the quickest way is going to be circulate the other way (can't hear). Scott/Well you can also go down on this side of the scale and go right around there too, so there's actually two lanes through there. Vanderhoef/So there is, there are two lanes there OK. Scott/So you don't have to go across the scale, if you don't have to pay you can go around. Shaw/And then the people. Vanderhoef/So that's going to move faster, your not waiting for the pay and (can't hear) pay together. Scott/Right, fight, exactly. Shaw/People that have multiple you know more than one item come back through, to see if they've got something that goes up here, they get rid of that and then they come back through here and fight back into the entire system to take care of the second items may not be accommodating at that point. ScotUYea. Right. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Scott/Right and to answer your question we'll have three people to run the upper area, one in the weigh station all the time and then two, well there'll be one down here part time and then one here full time so this person will help out that person repacking paint and things in chemical waste facility. Shaw/ And the location of that control point is going to help keep the number of employees who will be required down here, so that one individual can monitor the entire system. Norton/Kind of use this as the same personnel that you have. Scott/Exactly, that's the plan right now. Norton/This is the (can't hear) to be wished or is firm? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 63 Shaw/Firm. Scott/I think it's pretty firm from what I understand. Vanderhoef/That's the way the budget says it. Lehman/You know why don't you give them an idea of what size that building is, because when I first looked at it I looked at it and I thought it was bigger than most barns, but it's 3,000 square feet and my. Scott/OK. Shaw/It's just under 3,000 square feet. Scott/Well why don't we go on into the building and you can talk about some of the environmental issues and components, do you want to go into that? Shaw/I'm not enthusiastic about this. OK. One of the things that was presented with this project early on was and I think most of you will remember there was a very comprehensive list of alternative energy and recycling parameters they we called. Jim Schoenfelder developed a real strong list of things that should be considered, should be studied, and should be explained why they were appropriate and incorporated into the project or why they were probably outside of either the budget or the intent of the project. I took the opportunity that was afforded to get, I got someone from UNI that works, he's an energy coordinator up at the Center for Environmental and Energy Education up at UNI and he got work study students involved with the project, we took every one of the parameters, we pulled them apart and we made a fairly nice report on all of them, and the city will get a copy of this report and it's really a nice simple single source place to go for a fairly wide range of alternative energy and recycling choices and issues, practices, you all have the outline, you see that there are, there is two extensive lists of things that have been considered as the project has been designed. We're dealing with recycled and renewable materials, assemblies that are made from recycled products, practices out on the job site while this is being built, we're trying to incorporate the weigh spec. which there at least the viable parts of the weigh spec. that was developed by a land fill organization that is designed to require practices during the construction process that minimizes the amount of construction waste with the idea that if you start here possibly you can have this sort of thing spread throughout the construction industry. The building itself has been designed to have absolute modular out to out dimensions so when you lay four foot wide panels on it you get to the end of the outside wall and that's where the four foot This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 64 wide panel stops and it meets the comer, your not cutting, your not throwing away waste, you know, it's just common sense things. I think there I think I counted the list up I'm not going to stand here and read them to you but I think there are right around 5l items on here. Out of those 51 some of those are mutually exclusive because if you do one you can't do the other, but out of those 51 at this point we've incorporated 28 of the items into the project as it sits before us and as it becomes more finely developed we keep finding more ways to incorporate more. You know it's just a method of thinking about it and it opens itself to those opportunities. The picture you have in front of you and you have elevations that show some texture in the pass outs in the packet. The exterior material will be steel siding that will have batten seams on it, it was very conscious, I very consciously tried to pick up an language in even with the higgly piggly arrangement of the various pans of the building. You go out to any farm yard and nobody stood there and said boy I think this building would like nice here. They stood there and said how can I use this building and that's where it went. The steel siding of course has got the batten reference of a barn siding, it's also a recycled material, steel roofing, steel will use wood studs on the outside, to take advantage of the energy or the thermal resistance of wood, all the wood will have to be certified by the forest steward council that it's come from recyclable sort, or renewable sources, tree farms and then on the inside we'll use metal studs, again recycled material. We've got, the top three windows on the side side will be photovoltaic panels, they aren't actually windows, there'll be photo bouquet panels. They will push five overhead ceiling fans that will sit in the top of the clerestory space, of course we'll reverse these fans summer and winter, and we'll draw warm air up or push cool air down depending on what the need may be. The windows are, there's been a very conscious effort to take advantage of the common sense things that you drive out by any farmstead and you see the windows are all double hung windows, you get to have hot air go out the top and cool air come in the bottom. The top windows to the south in the little control stack there will be some structural steel flaming up there that will act as a thermal as thermal storage, that entire stack, the height of it is important visually because it is a marker, it tells people where, what there destination is but it's important functionally also because the height allows us to develop solar stack effect and we'll use the draw through that to ventilate all the habitable spaces within inside the building. The building is not laid out on, it's actually pulls more to the noah and south than it does east and west, which would be the normal logical way to weigh out a very energy building. But one of things we're going to do with this is we're going to heat and cool it at 100 percent with waste oil. We can get units that will burn at zero emission, they will produce the cooling and the heating and the nice thing is that the landfill produces enough waste oil out of their own operations that they can heat and cool this so they don't have to receive oil from the public that they would no idea actually was was in it. They can control the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 65 source of the waste oil going into the equipment and once that move is made then the north/south, or the east/west orientation becomes less important because solar gain is you know if your essentially getting free heating and cooling, solar gain is not as big an issue, there's still solar strategies at work here but what became a greater energy concern was the day lighting and the space. And that's one reason the ceilings are nine feet high to cast the natural light deeper in. I could go on but I think our time's about up. Norton/How do you run the fans when the sun's working? Shaw/You have a battery sink up there. Norton/Oh (can't hear). Shaw/Yea, the portable tanks charge the battery store and they run off that. Norton/And that's a net gain I guess. Is that a net gain or? Shaw/No, how many years do you want to protect it over? Norton/Well I don't know. Shaw/It's going to start paying for itself probably within about 2 ½ years. Kubby/That's pretty quick. Norton/I get the feeling this whole thing is done with mirrors. We're reducing the landfill charges aren't we? Isn't that in the hopper too, reducing the charges and getting all this high tech system here it feels almost impossible? Atkins/You want to look at strictly from financing perspective Dee, landfills make no sense at all. I mean what we're trying to do is diminish the volume of materials going into the landfill and at the same time trying to maintain the cost figures and it just it's like economic development, why is economic development, every time we bring a business or industry to town they create more waste to put in our landfills. Kubby/So that amount of money on the ticking fee that' s for household hazardous waste, have we spent all of that for our once in a while cleanups or some of that money has been squirreled away for this facility? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 66 Atkins/We have put money so my build this project, we have money set aside, we will still sponsor special hazardous cleanup days, we still wish to continue to programming these facilities not unlike we have done with programs in the past. Noaon/Well this one is the landfill. Atkins/This comes out of landfill yes, we've set aside on reserves efficient money to pay for this project. Noaon/In reserve. Scott/Yea, and I'd like to add to that, we've applied to the state for $100,000 grant to pay for some of the equipment and part of the educational component and the household hazardous waste storage little component, little self-contained unit off to the noah there. Atkins/Some members of the council might recall that 4-5 years ago we were thinking about the east side of town trying to build one, we couldn't find land, and it sort of all come together instruction's that John got through Jim was that when we call it a recycling center, how much can we make it respective (can't hear) used process and I think John's folks have gone far and beyond. 1 mean it truly is a recycling center, process purposes but also for the (can't hear). Kubby/So what is the educational component, I mean is it all on site or is, do we also have a programmatic thing that's more that have a PR component to it? Scott/I think it will be all of that, maybe can you answer that better Brad? Brad NeumanrF Dan mentioned our grant we're applying for through the state and it's a $100,000, $60,000 is going towards the education component and then we match that with $60,000 that's spread out over three years. We're looking at doing radio, TV, lot of printed material, tours, big kickoff type things, so it's quite extensive, $60,000 is quite a bit. Norton/Are we inventing the wheel here or have we seen one of these somewhere else? Neumann/There's about six of them in the state, they vary in size. Des Moines Metro is probably the larger one. Yea. Neumann/Davenpoa has one, Des Moines has one, Cedar Rapids has one, Clinton County has a smaller version and then there's a couple other smaller ones. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 67 Norton/And you're handling all hazardous waste now, will this handle all kinds of waste now? Don't forget my neon tubes, I don't know where to drop them. Neumann/Those will be accepted here for residents. They will be accepted at the facility. The facility will start with residential waste only. And then we'll move into small quantity, conditionally exempt small quantity generators, business, and schools. Kubby/That's great, because those small generators, they just don't know what, they landfill the stuff. Norton/Landfill the stuff yea. Neumann/So we're taking any hazardous material out of the home and including needles, syringes, some of those type items also. Vanderhoef/Is there anything that has to be incinerated? Neumann/Most of what we collect here will be incinerated somewhere, out of that hazardous. Norton/When you get fight down to it. Vanderhoef/We're not. Neumann/We will contract with a company that will come in, we will do the lab packing and then they'll come in with a truck and take it away, that's all manifested back to us and we get the destruction papers and most of that will be incinerated. Some go into special landfills, most of it's incinerated, depends on what it is. Norton/Might as well make your own incinerator pretty quick. Vanderhoef/What, yea, what's our cost to send this out to be incinerated? Neumann/The events we have now, the one day events, the majority of that is incinerated now, and those are in the $100,000 - $75,000 to hundred thousand dollar range for one day event. Kubby/I mean that's why the educational component is so important to get people to choose less toxic options or to choose (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 68 Neumann/Well you have to remember a lot of the material will be given back to the public so we don't, if it comes in good condition, it will be put on a shelf in the exchange room, public can come in and take it, and the best way to get rid of it is to use it, so we don't have to pay to incinerate it. Shaw/And I really have been spending weekends at similar facilities and. Lehman/Microphone. Shaw/I'm sorry. Neumann/Every time I've spoken with anyone who runs one of these facilities they've said the shelves in the exchange areas stay empty. People do come and remove the material, and virtually any materials that go up there, you know, it's a free lunch right and I think that must mean that there are a lot of rental units in these towns that are painted brown because they hog all the paint. Atkins/What about our bid schedule, did we get one, finally get a bid? Neumann/Yea, the documents will be ready by the end of April, and then. Atkins/Sometime in May or (can't hear) summer? Lehman/This one will be complete by Fall? Kubby/This is really a. Shaw/That's the plan. Lehman/September, October. Neumann/It'll be closed in by fall, anyhow, I don't know that it will be complete, May, June, July, August, yea, late fall, late fall, yea, it's really not even a large house, the size of a large house. The reclamation area is kind of a separate area that sits down to the south but everything is covered so people don't have an excuse not to come out in the rain. Norton/You have a fair amount of paving to do though don't you in this? Neumann/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 69 Norton/Do you have decent soil out there for that? You don't have paved roads at the moment? Neumann/No, there's a lot of rock out there, there's, there's 30 years worth of rock there that we can work with. But that's true there's going to be a lot of hard surfaces, we're looking at different types of material to work with, to keep our costs down here and that is a large area to pave and we're trying to address that. Vanderhoef/How are we doing with our shingle droves? Neumann/Oh, very good. We've shingled this east/west and north/south portion of this road over there along the east and north boundary, it's holding up very well. Champion/I have an odd question, can we, I mean this is the land fill right? Have we thought of some way of how we're going to clean those buildings (can't hear). Kubby/Whose? Neumann/What do you mean clean? (can't hear). Neumann/You mean as far as polluting the ground water and that, is that what you mean? Champion/Or keeping the building clean. (can't hear). Neumann/That' s true, and another reason we want to try and pave a lot of this upper portion is to keep the dust down to keep it more less muddy, a nicer facility. And as far as cleaning out the inside, it's all self-contained so we're not polluting any of ground water around it, their in that process. Atkins/Connie is your question, is it going to be tidy? Champion/Yea, right. Atkins/I think that' s director of Public Works will have that responsibility (can't hear). Champion/I don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 70 Atkins/It seems so untidy. Kubby/But we do need to. Vanderhoef/We're going into pick out products, when we want a nice place to shop? Champion/Right. Kubby/We get a lot of complaints, like people love the services of City Canon but there's also on a blowy day there's a lot of stuff flying around. Atkins/Connie, landfills are obviously traditionally (can't hear) to maintain. Champion/Right. Atkins/That building because it is (can't hear) closed certainly presents an easier opportunity, you're not going to go out there with your pumps and handbag and go shopping around. Shaw/But you could. (can't hear). Kubby/And your pumps. O'Donnell/I like my pumps. Scott//Those services are separated from the building down here to. Norton/So you know, people are going to still ask the general question, is this a an unlitigated good, I mean is this thing, in other words people will say well why are you spending money to do this, why don't you spend it some other way? That is, what are you giving them, really, other than this stuff is all going to be handed back and, it's going somewhere now, fight. Neumann/Well that's just it, it's going somewhere now and we don't know where, and we know it's out there, so this is just giving us an opportunity to capture that and make sure we know it's being safely disposed of. Kubby/To ground water protection. Atkins/I think it's real important that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 71 Norton/I'm trying to get an overall vision here that makes it work. Atkins/First of all we, our generation, and I think local governments have been assigned responsibility to clean up these messes. I mean practically speaking it would seem a wiser policy would be the federal govemment to require that all packing that goes out the door of some business or industry be required to be recycled. But they choose not to do that, we are the custodian, the janitor here, and it's been handed to us and this is the way we believe we can get those materials out of the landfill hopefully back into some other productive use, but the bottom line is that's the hand we were dealt hopefully, and as the local government I think we need to deal with it. Norton/But it's got to be trucked out basically, the stuff that comes in, all goes out, you know were, some people may take it out individually but most of what comes in here you said is trucked out somewhere. Atkins/But the recyclable (can't hear). Norton/Why truck it in here and then truck it out again, why not send it out to start with? Atkins/The recyclable materials are going to find their way to license facilities, for example, the syringes, they've got to be incinerated, that's the only really truly safe way to do that, we don't have that facility. There are certain hazardous materials that we have, isn't there someplace in Kansas we go or something, or Oklahoma, I don't know, whatever it is we have a contract. Neumann/The south. Atkins/Where we dispose of certain materials by contract and it's in there controlled environment that it's taken care of. I mean the only other option is don't create these materials. Now. Norton/Just load in a truck and take it to Illinois like everybody else does. Lehman/Yea, but you still have to, you still have to collect it. Norton/Yea, but you don't have to sort it. Champion/You have to worry about the future. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 72 Letunan/Well I think you do have to sort it long-term. Norton/Let somebody else sort it. Shaw/The list of counties I visited goes Bremer, Linn, Blackhawk, Polk, Scott. All of those counties have a facility somewhat analogous to this and I think that puts Johnson County behind the curve. Norton/You mean being progressive in that sense? Kubby/Well I mean the two big issues we deal with the land fill are volume and toxicity. And this facility helps us deal in some way with both of those major issues and hopefully in the long-term what some of this does is makes our landfill last longer and it helps us maintain the quality of ground water. Norton/Yea, I, those are virtues, and you know. Kubby/So those are the tangible benefits but their longer term and their gooey. Champion/Somebody has to be first. Atkins/And the other choice is what, not to do this? Champion/Right. Norton/Truck it to Illinois. Atkins/I don't think that's, truck it to Illinois. But then I you know. Norton/Unsort it. Lehman/That's the short term solution. Norton/Well that's what a lot of people are doing, that's what New York is doing, their trucking it or barging it somewhere. Kubby/And well and we have a component of that in that it's being incinerated elsewhere so we are buying into that. Atkins/And to accomplish that Dee would requirement of the government to take even strong hand. And the goal of the solid waste dream, federal court rulings certainly don't work to our advantage. Are you willing away the (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 73 Norton/I'm in favor of being progressive Steve I'm just trying to be the deviled advocates so somebody says oh here we go again, on the cutting edge of technology and sweetness of life and. Atkins/I don't think there's any sweetness about it. Neumann/The reason we do the HHW is not necessarily volume it's more the toxicity and what in the future your going to have to take care of that landfill and the more we put in the more expensive it's going to be in the future to clean it up. Norton/Can you use the methane out of there? Neumann/That's a whole other subject. But you've got to remember when we have a clean up day a full blown toxic clean up day we got 2-3 percent of the households in this county. So you know there's stuff going into that landfill yet. Norton/2-3 percent. Neumann/Well it's only once a year too, so if we do it weekly. Vanderhoef/Ongoing. Neumann/We hope to increase that and take out a lot of that toxicity. Lehman/Well we're also in a situation where we need a scale house. Norton/Yea, well. Scott/Well we don't have any choice, it blew away. Lehman/I mean this is going to be really nice scale house, look that one way. Atkins/OK, let's go. Vanderhoef/What would it take to do our incineration? What are we looking at? Lehman/(can't hear). Neumanrd I don't think you even want to get into that. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 74 Atkins/Because I've seen licensing and permitting (can't hear). Neumam~/I don't even think the state of Iowa would allow. Kubby/And a revolution from the community. Atkins/And I don't think the state would be permitting it. Kubby/Actually it's not pan of our landfill plan, our county plan so we, so that's really not an option. Neumann/No, I don't think the state would allow such an incinerator? There closing them down. Norton/Well somebody's got to do it. Vanderhoef/What does Ames have? Kubby/The University's closing there's? Neumann/Ames has a solid waste incinerator that they produce power for the City of Ames. It's been there, it's grandfathered in, it's been there for almost thirty years. The only one in the state. Letunan/And it doesn't work real well I understand. Neumann/No, it'll probably be the last one. Norton/Somebody's (can't hear) someplace come on guys, their incinerating chemical weapons for god's sake. Neumann/Well to be honest with you most of the material we send out from a cleanup day ends up in the south. Goes to Louisiana, North Carolina, Kentucky. Norton/That's not fair. Neumann/That's where the. Norton/You just told me Illinois. Neumann/That's where the burners are. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April l 9, 1999 Council Work Session Page 75 Norton/I don't mind Illinois, but South Carolina. Neummm/That's where the incinerators are located. Vanderhoef/That's where he's going to retire. Norton/I see, it's. Neumann/Usually the company that's picking it up owns their own facilities, or the big ones do and they locate them in those southern states usually. Very few of them up north. Vanderhoef/Is that because of the way the permitting goes? Neumann/Could be. Norton/Sure. Champion/(Can't hear). You've created a monster with all of our travel, stuff we use in our houses and businesses, and it's incredible too. Neumann/But if we send it to Illinois we end up paying for it in the future again too, we're liable for what goes in over there. Lehman/We had this on our CIP. O'Donnell/Cuts down on (can't hear) but most the time you can carry that list. Arkins/Oh yea. This, you improved the project, late fall, you say we're ready to go to bid, what's the big deal? Vanderhoef/And this being7 Neumann/This fall, late fall. Vanderhoef/And it's for. Arkins/Cause we're ready to go to bid. O'Donnell/(Can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 76 Kubby/We're ready. Neumann/How long before? O'Donnell/Did you say this is like a (can't hear). Shaw/ Number one the materials here are very modest materials, and very straight forward materials. And you know, just virtually on the edge of industrial materials, they make sense with the metal pole buildings we already have out at the landfill. There extremely durable, you've got a 40-50 year roof here, we're going with metal roof rather than asphalt shingles, the steel siding is going to have at least a 20-year life. And that again all of this was planned with the recycling component in mind, the longer you put forward the materials you've used the first time, the less the whole system starts up and the less your putting in the land fill later on. But this is, there's virtually, well not virtually, I will say that there is, this is a maintenance flee building from finishes, from the standpoint of finishes. Everything will either be a factory finish, well actually everything will be a factory finish. We're not going to introduce any follicle organic compounds to treat any of the building components so it's going to be extremely, it's going to take care of itself fairly well. O'Donnell/(Can't hear). Lehman/Thank you very much, build it, bid it, bid it, then we'll build it. Vanderhoef/Bid it at a good price. Kubby/Great job. O'Donnell/I think it's a great job. Vanderhoef/I think this is wonderful, we can get this done with own income. Chauncev Swan Fountain 99-46 S2 Atkins/Ernie. Lehman/Yes. Atkins/Can I ask to take Chauncey Swan before Stormwater, I mean I just need a yes or no from you whether you like that idea or not. Lehman/On Chauncey Swan? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 77 Kubby/Chauncey Swan yes but not until we've done our priorities. Arkins/Well I can live with that. Kubby/Well, so like, I think it's a great idea but I think there might be other things that are more important. Norton/We can put it on the agenda. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Arkins/I just, first of all is it a good idea? Champion/Yea. Lehman/Yea, I mean 1 think it's a great idea. Norton/Which is that? Lehman/Moving the fountain across. Kubby/Chauncey. Norton/Oh, moving the fountain, yes. O'Donnell/I think it's a great idea. Norton/Public Art has looked at that have they not? Vanderhoef/Yes. Arkins/Yes. Kubby/But I might not want to spend $30,000 this year and maybe not in five years depending on our priorities and what other things. O'Donnell/But there may be four people here that do. Kubby/Yea. O'Donnell/I think it's a great idea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 78 Atkins/Am I heating it's a great idea and sit on it, or it's a great idea go ahead? O'Donnell/I think go ahead. Kubby/It's $30,000. Lehman/Well I think there's going to be certain segment of the population that are going to be very unhappy with that fountain being removed. We know that. O'Donnell/It's very (can't hear). Lehman/And there' s also a fairly large number of people who were involved in raising the money to pay for that fountain. O'Donnell/That's right. Lehman/I guess I'd rather see the relocated sooner rather than later. Norton/Can you find the $30,0007 Arkins/Well we have three options. One option is that traditionally we always have enough room in our CIP, of course this year it doesn't look like we're going to be able to. Vanderhoef/Yea, this year. Atkins/Secondly, we have money within the Parks and Recreation budget for the development of parks, they rarely spend all of that, and thirdly is contingency transfer, I mean, we have three options. The first one, I understand Karen's point, it's all taken, but we do have two others. Norton/I don't see any point in letting it sit, I think it ought to get moved. O'Donnell/I do too. Norton/If we are not being too elaborate on that base onto which it's going to sit, but it's got to sit on something that will be (can't hear). Atkins/Jim and Kumi put together a very straight forward project that's intended to be something that's an attractive feature, it's intended to allow little ones to play in it without the other ones being at risk. And we're also trying to reuse that resource, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 79 that piece of sculpture. It will have cascading water, it will not pond, it will drain fight off. Norton/Drain fight off, yea. Vanderhoef/Was I mistaken when I read in one place that it was brass and one place that it was copper? Norton/Yea, they said that was a contradiction. Atkins/It is a contradiction because (can't hear) thought it was copper, now we're pretty sure we think it's brass. It's brass. (Cant hear). Lehman/Microphone up here. Kumi Morris/My name is Kumi Morris I'm the intern architect working with Jim Schoenfelder the city architect. Originally we thought that it was indeed copper in the drawings that I had had and some information that I had from other people who had sanded the materials down at one point. They believe that it was copper. But after when I did some further research I found that after speaking to a person who had last painted it in the last spring had sanded it down to it's main material and then refinished it and painted it they found that is was indeed brass. Again it's still questionable, if it's brass, we're going to put a sealant on it, and perhaps it will weather with the sealant but also it will maintain the material, if it's copper we'd like to bring it down to it's base and have it patina and. Norton/What does brass do, copper gets green, what does brass do? O'Donnell/Rust. Morris/Yea, brass rusts, that's why it needs a, it would need a sealant, brass rusts. Vanderhoef/And that would be an ongoing cost then? That sealant. Morris/That's right, but it's already a cost that the fountain, that the existing fountain already maintains, as far as painting, it's something that happens every 3-5 years, that they take the sculpture down, sand it down to it's base and repaint it, so it's something that's in order to maintain the existing as a painted piece, will have to happen as well. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 80 Vanderhoef/So this would have to be one of our first costs that I've been talking about a whole lot on maintaining our art. Norton/Yes. Vanderhoef/And when it comes up our. Champion/It's not a new cost. Vanderhoef/Well but we've been talking about in terms of our art budget and that there would be a component in the art budget to paint. (All talking) O'Donnell/I'd like to see it. Norton/Well copper would actually would not take any. Vanderhoef/Come on give me a break. Morris/That' s correct, just continue patina. (All talking). Kubby/I guess I just want to caution us because until we had that priority discussion, I mean we just don't say no to very much. Norton/But we're going to have to. Kubby/I guess I mean it's not a big amount of money but it's just kind of the principle of when do we say no and to what things and. Champion/We will say no Karen. Kubby/What's that? Champion/(Can't hear) O'Donnell/(can't hear) Norton/This is what I'll agree with you, the 30. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 81 Kubby/I'm looking forward to that because. Norton/We've got to start saying no, I agree with Karen but we, whether we this thing can't just sit there and be stored can it I mean? (all talking) O'Donnell/We could put a garden hose and (can't hear). Atkins/Chauncey Swan Park is an attractive park. Kubby/Yea, it will be beautiful. Norton/It's fine. Atkins/It can be stored for a while, we felt it would be simply a productive use and what, it had been there, it's another feature for downtown. Kumi and Jim did most of the work (can't hear). Norton/I think it'll be lovely. Atkins/Our own people will design the palming mechanism, (can't hear). Lehman/Has the Art Advisory Committee talked about this? Atkins/Yea, Karen looked at it and their OK. O'Donnell/Karen once they decided (can't hear). Lehman/Well I don't. Norton/I think they were ready to go they were looking it at, I know their not looking at the budget, we've got to figure out how to get the $30,000 out of somebody's hide. (All talking). Vanderhoef/$30,000 and the maintenance of it and the art budget. Norton/I don't know whether they counted it, did they include anything in their budget? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999, WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 82 Atkins/No. This is not an art issue, they did not, I simply asked to Karen to take a look at it from the artistic quality, what we're trying to do is preserve a piece of art sculpture found. Norton/Which was given to us. Atkins/Bought and paid for. We'll put it to another use. O'Dom~ell/That's good. Norton/I say let's do it that's fine (can't hear). Lehman/Now are we, did you? (All talking). Vanderhoef/Pay my taxes too? Lehman/Marian did you pick that up? CHANGE REEL TO TAPE 99-47 SIDE 1 STORMWATER MANAGEMENT Atkins/(can't hear). There's a whole bunch of, we're not going to answer all your questions tonight, I would certainly prefer that you just kind of kick back for them and let them walk us through this issue, we're not going to get to financing tonight, we'll get back to this later on but this is a new federal law, we want to get ahead of the game and I've asked Rick to put it all together (can't hear) PCs and some of the major issues, with that. Rick Fosse/Thank you. I have 30 minutes on the agenda, I'll do my best to get it done in 15. We're at a bit of a crossroads in our Stormwater Management in the sense that we got the Phase II Stormwater rates coming up and what we want to do is take a full comprehensive look at our Stormwater Management, both where we've been and where we're going so what I've put together is a short program to do that and I'll just dive right into it so we don't bum up any. Lehman/I realize your concerned about the time but it's also important that we hear what you have to say. Fosse/OK. OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 83 Atkins/You're done already. Fosse/No. Norton/Ernie didn't want him to rush too fast, that's right, your right. Lehman/Well I think we really got to. Norton/You got to be serious about it. Fosse/It's much more comfortable talking behind your back. Lehman/OK. Fosse/ (slide show) First of all what is stormwater? And it's most easily defined as anything that doesn't find it's way into our sanitary sewer system. Our sanitary sewer system is closed and our stormwater system is much more undefined than that. This stormwater is intended to be drinking water until the water main broke but once it's out and on the street it's it is stormwater and same is true for the runoff again for the gas stations and same is true for paint thinher or the motor oil that somebody takes and dumps down the storm sewer inlet down the street from them. We're all managers of stormwater at our own homes and we stand by, for anybody's got a home, and it all begins with our down spouts, and our gutter system, this guy's even got a thingy up here on his roof, he's starting to manage his stormwater before it even gets to his gutters and for the most part people are good storu~water managers it's not until the 15,000 plus households donate their water to the city that it becomes a problem for us and then it becomes something that I'm always, people always call it city water. They come into my office and city water is causing trouble for me. So that's when we begin to get into the picture of managin~ Stormwater. Oh, Karen this is the tree I was telling you about at break time, this was a research project, about 10 years ago we put his big sewer in, next to this tree, we decided to leave it and see how it would do. This particular tree is still doing great, and it survived the windstorm last summer but you can't do that to every tree. But anyway, storm sewer systems typically when you think of a sewer system you think of pipes and that's true for a lot of our newer storm sewers, we have some older storm sewers, this is the Beer Creek storm sewer, this about ½ block noah of us, you've heard me talk about the beer creek storm sewer before, it's the one that goes along the historical society building, it's caused some problems for them. This is a sewer built by the Roman 2,000 years ago. I think they had better materials to work with than we did. The ironic thing is is that is the sewer that's causing trouble for the historical society. Streets are also a component of our stormwater system. A lot of people don't This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 84 realize that but you can only make the pipes so big, or you can only afford to make the pipes so big, and the rest of the water has to run somewhere else, and it goes down our streets and picks up a lot of things along the way. There's a limit of how far you can take that street concept though. We also transpoa stormwater in open channels if you will. Now this one probably would have been better off handled in a pipe because of the erosion that's going on there. And of course we handle our stormwater in creeks, this is a shot of Ralston Creek and it's just now feasible to put something that large in a pipe at least not financial reasonable. So that's it on some of the general issues about what is stormwater, so let me dive into what where we've been, what are some of the non-mandated things that we're doing. We were the first in the state in 1976 to adopt a Stormwater Management ordinance to deal with the issue of Stormwater quantity and this is a shot of a 2- state basin that's out in Hunter's Run that's functioning very well, you can see this basin is completely full, you got an overlay in route going down to the next basin and into is overtopping and going between some homes that's handled very large storm detained a lot of water and nobody's been damaged. It is designed well and functions well. We've got a few in town that don't though. Norton/Where is that one, where was that one? Fosse/ That was out in Hunter's Run. Now of course a good share of the city was developed prior to 1976 when our Stormwater Management ordinance came into affect, and we had a lot of flooding issues from that prior development. And because paaially because of the way our flood plains were managed back in the early development days of the city. There's where the Chauncey Swan Ramp is now, here's the view out Eleanor's window. It's the only department head with a life jacket in here credenza. Champion/Me too, that is an old (can't hear). Fosse/ In response to that we've built some large detention basins on both the noah and south branches of Ralston Creek. The noah branch one is in Hickory Hill park, this is the south branch one, we discovered if you put enough soccer balls in a shed, it will float. We've got that tied down now. It settles down over the outlet and causes troubles. We still have some flooding downtown, this car started out over by Johnson Street, and ended up down by the parking ramp here. It actually went through the culvea, fight out here by the coop, and fortunately it didn't get stuck in there or it would have cost us a lot of problems. There's nobody in this. And, but the flooding has been reduced but not eliminated ceaainly in the downtown area. In our neighborhoods this is over on Fairview Street, our neighborhoods, especially our older neighborhoods experienced a lot of stormwater problems, and if you recall back in the beginning when I showed the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 85 home and any other flooding problems, I deliberately showed pictures of an older areas, a lot of people will attribute problems with stormwater just to urban sprawl, you know (can't hear) urban sprawl but seems the majority of our stormwater problems are in our older neighborhoods because when they originally developed they didn't do a good job dealing with stormwater. But anyway over on Fairview I like this picture because these people don't even seem phased by all the water running by their house, it's, like you started talking before that came along. Instead of having potlucks, they get together and build levy' s in this neighborhood to protect it but this was, we did a storm sewer project out here, we spent about $300,000 in 1995 and got a good handle on this problem. I would say on the average over the years that I've been here, we spend about a half a million dollars a year to come in and take a problem like this, go in and improve the storm sewer system and then return the neighborhood the best we can. Oh, that's First Avenue, did all of you recognize that? Lehman/Right. Vanderhoef/Oh yes. Champion/I got caught on that one. Fosse/ Yea, and the key with these, any storm sewer improvement that you make you never eliminate the problem, you only make it less frequent. So that's something we need to be very careful of as a city we go into a neighborhood with a project and we can't say we're going to fix the problem, all we can promise them is it's going to happen less frequently, because there will always be a storm that comes along bigger than what we can afford to put pipes in. Well in addition to storm sewer improvements we have this issue of storm sewer maintenance, and this is out on Woodridge Avenue, had a big sink hole show up and had to go out, dig it up, find out what was going on there and what we found is some thirty years ago contractor had coppled a couple of pieces of different size pipe together. And it took 30 years for the results to show up. That's why construction inspection is so very important, when you get a five year maintenance bond on a project that some problems take decades to show their face. One thing you might recall from the budget a couple years ago is we did get a camera that we can run through the sewers now so we can go in and diagnose some of these problems before we dig the hole and in some of them, some cases we can actually fix them from the inside. And that equipment has more than paid for itself, the staff really likes it cause the old map would, it would just cause all the blood to run to your head. Give you a headache. (All laughing) Lehman/Is that old chip root. That was old Chip... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 86 Fosse/ As long as somebody's holding on it's (can't hear). Stormwater basin maintenance is becoming a real issue for us because the lower basins are over 20 years old, and we really don't have any plan or place on how we're going to take care of them. This is a basin, it's a small basin, it doesn't function very well, we'll come to you later with some revisions to the stormwater management ordinance to try to head off problems like this one in the future but two weeks a coffee can caused over $2,000 worth of damage to a home out here because it got lodged in the outlet. The small basins are very susceptible to flooding. It's one of the reasons we're looking at other ways to manage our stormwater, this is the whispering meadows wetland park, and one that's still on the drawing boards is the south sycamore regional stormwater basin, we're really taking very large a regional approach and we're looking at more than just stormwater quantity but we're looking at quality in addition to that. But the point being we've literally got hundreds of these basins around town and all of them are slowly filling with sediments and sand and you know that in our budget we've got money to remove the sediments from the north branch, south branch detention basins but for all these ones out in our neighborhoods, we really don't have a good plan on how to deal with that yet and that's facing us. Vanderhoef/And we own most of those? Norton/Are those private or public there? Fosse/ Most of them are on private land but with an easement dedicated to the public and we have a clear responsibility to maintain the outlet structures as far as getting the sediments out of it, that's less clear. I put a quiz in here, a short quiz. How does paying $1.00 a bag for stormwater, or excuse me, for yard waste get us involved in financially in doing a project like this? And the answer is when you charge a dollar a bag people find other things to do with their yard waste and put it out at the curb, and one of the most popular things is putting it in our creeks and that's a 6 foot diameter culvert there. Lehman/Oh my lord. Fosse/And when those get plugged like that there's water ponds and in this case it got about this deep and went into the basement of that home. The point here is that since we've gone to the dollar a bag for yard waste, our streets department has a list of culvert locations they need to get out to when it rains to just clear the stuff off it. That's a problem that's come on lately. It's interesting how so many of our decisions are intertwined. We also charge to pick up bulky items, I couldn't find any, if the other two cushions hadn't floated away, I might have this in my family This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 87 room now. I kind of like the neat floral pattern. But milky yard waste on the other side of the creek as well. And this is right in the middle of town, it isn't like on the edge of town, so with that we'll move into federally mandated requirements. The EPA will be releasing the Phase II of the stormwater rates this fall. And Phase I kicked in around 1991, Phase I1 will have the most direct impacts on Iowa City, in three ways, one is with municipal permits, second is industrial permits, and finally construction permits for construction projects. Municipal permits we're going to need to get a what's called a national pollution discharge elimination systems permit for our storm sewer system. And that's the same type of permit that we get for our waste water treatment plant and it's going to have two basic statutory standards for this permit, one is to eliminate elicit non storm sewer discharges. Norton/E what? Fosse/Elicit connections, that's what this is, see that fm~y green there. Norton/Bad connections. Fosse/Yea, this one is actually about 2 ½ blocks up stream from where Karen lives, she never complained about it but it's driving me crazy we kept it for about seven years, we tracked this down and this storm sewer was tied into a floor drain in a gas station and this green stuff is what. Lehman/Antifreeze. Kubby/Turned the creek green. Fosse/Cleaned the floors in the gas station. It wasn't antifreeze but it had this floor cleaner. Norton/There was a direct connection you mean from the storm, sanitary sewer to the creek. Fosse/Yep, and we got that mess cleaned up. Kubby/I thought I was seeing things when I went outside one day. Fosse/You thought you were seeing things you say? Kubby/Yea, I couldn't believe my eyes, yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 88 Fosse/ But there are a number of sanitary sewer services that are still connected to storm sewers around town. If you recall we used to have a combined sewer system in Iowa City, and they were separated in the 60's and 70's and there are a few of those elicit connections still out there. There's one in Beer Creek storm sewer I'm told, I was thinking about when I was crawling in there. Need to find those and get those disconnected. The other statutory standard is to reduce pollution discharges to the "maximum extent practicable." And the EPA calls that MEP's, and that's a change in language from Phase I, Phase I was "best management practices," now both of those terms nobody knows quite sure what they mean, they've got subjective words in them it'll be interesting to see how it all shapes out there. Norton/What does that one stand for? Fosse/ You've got "best management practices" is the old language, the new one is "maximum extent practicable." Most people interpret the word practicable as being better for us than best, but. Onto industrial most industries in Iowa City are already regulated by the EPA Phase I rate. And the intent of those is to make sure industrial operations aren't creating contributions to stormwater runoff, (can't hear) stormwater runoff, here you can see some stuff going on outside, lots of stains here, a barrel of stuff there. It's intended both to limit these incremental pollution's entering the storm sewer system and also to provide protections against larger spills, such as this one. This came out of the Coralville Industrial Park, it, can you see the swirlies up here in the water? This is a mixture of diesel fuel and insecticide, somebody was using diesel fuel to rinse out a big container that had insecticide in it and. Kubby/Probably (can't hear) it too. Fosse/ Didn't know what to do with the diesel fuel, didn't want to put it in his truck again so he dumped it down the storm sewer and I really think you could have lit the river that day, it was really bad. We had some blotter, some skimmer, and a blotter to keep that out of the water plant. But those are some of the things that industrial regs. are hopefully they'll protect against. And then that also is a reason why our water plant site is upstream from Interstate 80, it's upstream from that Industrial Park that I was talking about, we're upstream from vulnerabilities to spills along the interstate as well. Then there's the construction standards. Currently, well first let me talk about this slide, this is. Some of the developers here are still trying to get the hang of the stormwater management or the erosion control thing, we've got about 200 feet of silk fence here, with just a knob on the hill, and there's about 70 acres draining through here, and they've got 16 feet of fence so it got overwhelmed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 89 Lehman/Is that in Iowa City? Fosse/Yes it is. And this was taken about six years ago, and I got to tell you when I was getting ready for this, I was going through some slides from 20 years and they have improved a lot. There's a slide from 20 years ago. This is when the houses are being built. Lehman/Is that a street? Fosse/Yea, there's a street under all of that. Lehman/Is there concrete under that? Fosse/Yea, oh yea. Norton/Is that Pepperwood by any chance? Fosse/I don't know, a lot of split foyers in there so, might be, but. Vanderhoef/That looks like (can't hear). Fosse/ From what I've seen we've made a lot of strides all ready in the erosion control area. Backing up a slide this is one of our projects on the west side of town, we've got some silk fence in along here. Currently city projects are not regulated by that. And it was the surface transportation act that excluded city projects from those construction runoff requirements. But and that exclusion's going to expire in 2001 but whether we're covered or not we like to take precautions like this because it's the right thing to do out there. And as I said this, once you get the subdivision built then you've got to build the homes, and that's what this is an example of, the subdivision is all built here, this was coming from the individual's home being built. And again things have improved a lot over time. Norton/(can't hear). Fosse/ Environmental damage aside this is one of the reasons we don't like to see all those sediments getting into the storm sewer system because they diminish the capacity and it causes a lot of maintenance to need to occur. That's it on the federally mandated things, and in summary there the object of Stormwater Management has changed significantly over the decades and at one time the goal was really very single minded and that is if we can limit deaths, that's a worthy goal. Since then it's become much broader, and we're looking at making our This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the lowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 90 water resources more of an asset than a liability. Something that's pleasurable to live around, and that includes not only taming some of the peaks and flow but also addressing the stormwater quality. So that. Norton/(can't hear). Atkins/Thank you Rick, nice job. Kubby/Rick you have the best slides. Norton/Great slides. (All talking). Vanderhoef/Good job. O'Donnell/Who writes your material? Atkins/He writes his own. Norton/Yea right. Champion/Really terrific. Atkins/(can't hear) gave you a (can't hear), obviously we don't have a plan for you, we will begin putting together information that allows you to measure the magnitude of what we're talking about and we've not done that either. But we wanted to give you a feel for the thing, I think this kind of presentation, let other folks see, try to figure out some way to, they'll understand (can't hear) appreciation for it. But this is going to be a major issue for us, and the bottom line is we do not have a funding source. And that's what we're going to have to talk about. Not only the extent of what we're going to do but how we're going to do it and it's both capital and (can't hear). Norton/But some things can be begun even without that though, I mean fit into the picture we were talking about the minutes of the Riverfront Natural Areas Commission and the question of trying to map our creeks, identify our problem, working with neighborhood associations on keeping grates clear and so forth which is seem to be one of the, you know their doing neighborhood watch but that's another aspect of neighborhood watch is to surely keep the mattresses out of the grates you know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 91 Atkins/You know one of the most disappointing thing we've experienced and remember on the east side of town and we were putting in (can't hear) east of First Avenue and (can't hear). I mean I actually would see people walk out the back and empty their grass clippings into the creek and of course it's going to only go one place and then it would back up (can't hear). Kubby/Then they call the city. Atkins/It's just really disappointing and we agreed with that, Karen and I have been spending time talking about it and I do see her (can't hear) neighborhood association, but the bottom line is we don't want them crawling around those grates. Norton/Oh no, that's just a piece of the. Atkins/That's too risky of stuff. Norton/A piece of the puzzle that's all. Atkins/But it is disappointing because people are throwing things in the streams (can't hear). Norton/No, I mean I was thinking of their reporting question. We had this out at Shamrock you remember, a few years ago, with that huge grate there and all. Lehman/Right. Norton/And I haven't looked at it lately but I was out there a couple years after we did that and it seemed to me they were managing but by just observing and calling somebody that can happen cause the city cannot get around and monitor all these sites so I'm just thinking little ways we can begin to proceed. Kubby/We do, I mean we do, when it rains hard we have a crew that goes around to certain problem spots and make sure things are clear right. Norton/Oh yea, I know. They sure do. Atkins/They have a list. Lehman/Well and I think there are people who really do not realize that dumping their clippings in the whatever is going to have that effect. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 92 Vanderhoef/It's just our recycle programs that we have educated and educated and educated and people have both always dumped into the creek because it washes away, well they don't think the rest of those piece. Atkins/Well and there's many of our services (can't hear) is a Stormwater Management device for us. Lehman/Oh yea. Norton/Well one of the other aspects is the sand. I when we were working on the Shamrock Creek I stood up at the head of that thing where all of the construction on Court, on Scott and where all we were talking tonight you know, now there's going to be another 72 unit building that's going to drain down, drizzle down, right down there and the sand just rolling into that thing and filling up that you know, coming off the streets, so I don't know how we're going to stop that, we fill up our own creeks with street sand. Vanderhoef/And we have increased the amount of sand we're putting on our own streets to decrease the amount of chemicals that we're putting in the runoffs so you know we have some things to look at for ourselves. Norton/Reduce the chemicals, I understand, can't win. Fosse/We've talked with other communities about that and there's some communities that have gone to putting down pure salt, not using any sand and there's some communities that have gone the other direction. There's a 100 ways to go after this. Vanderhoef/Yea. Norton/All I meant was we can't wait to get started on some aspects of this even though some of the educational aspects even though we can't do everything. Atkins/In some respects we've already done, done that our street sweeping up (can't hear) sand, (can't hear) program, I don't think we've ever been able to effectively police people from throwing grass clippings into the... Kubby/Are we nqandated by state law to have our storm water detention ordinance? Fosse/No we're not. Kubby/So that's, we're already ahead of the game for the last 20 years or whatever. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 93 Atkins/Oh were ahead of the game yes. Vanderhoef/Ahead on that. Lehman/Almost 30. Atkins/I think we we're the first in the state to do that. Fosse/We were the first and we're certainly the most stringent in the state, our detention requirements are exceed almost every other community in the state. Norton/Is this during construction you mean or for a subdivision or what do you mean? Fosse/This is, what will be in place after. Lehman/Operational. Fosse/Yep. Vanderhoef/The basins. Norton/But we also have stringent rules in regard to construction don't we to controlling runoff during construction? Fosse/Oh, yes. As I've said it's improved a lot in the 20 years just going back and looking at old photos. Norton/(can't hear). Lehman/Are we to assume your going to get this worked out for us. I mean obviously you know where the problems are, you know, you document them. Fosse/Yes. Well we'll know a lot more in October when the feds release the Phase II regulations, we've got a good idea ofwhat's in them, we've got some ideas for some strategies. I think one of the major unknowns right now is how are we going to pay for this? Norton/Yea. That's what we got to pay for. Atkins/(can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 94 Vanderhoef/The general fund isn't going to handle it. Lehman/But now, I think what I hear you saying though is that we would rather than clean the waste water once it runs off, we'd kind of like to eliminate the source of the pollution. Fosse/Right. For managing stormwater that's the best way that I'm aware of, is to get into the water shed and limit the sources of pollution rather than trying to get them back out of the water later. Lehman/Treat them. Atkins/Can you imagine what some of these urban cities... Norton/Oh yea. Atkins/Virtually no ability to have retention or detention basins whatever (can't hear). Norton/Yea, I was in San Francisco and you go by a grate on a high street you know, and they say don't wash your car by this grate, it runs right into the bay, well obviously people are, stuffs going in there. Atkins/Well (can't hear) on top of the thing and we will be putting things together verbally and have discussion with financing (can't hear). Kubby/Great, thank you. Champion/(can't hear). Norton/Do we have special inspections when a car wash goes in, is there special inspection goes in for example? Fosse/Yes, car washes are connected to our sanitary sewer system and they, Del (can't hear) pretreatment before he even gets into our sewer system, gets the scum off the top and sand out of the bottom. O'Donnell/Does (can't hear). Fosse/Yep, right here, for Washington. Atkins/Grate fight outside of the as you walk out onto the parking lot you'll see a grate (can't hear). He has to go down in there, he said (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 95 O'Dormell/So then it empties under the bridge down there? Fosse/It goes up to the Brewery, that's where it (can't hear). Lehman/Do you want to crawl in, is that what? Fosse/Absolutely. Vanderhoef/Brewery Square. Fosse/Yea, that's the upstream man fill. Atkins/That's all we have sir. Lehman/OK. Council Time 99-47 S2 1. Vanderhoef/Since Rick is here I'd just like to say while I was out today I went on Court Street extended and went to the back side to look at the property for the Glasgow project. I really like the grill work and building area around the Ralston Creek. Kubby/The root culvert, the green. Vanderhoef/Culvert, those are really nice and the erosion looks like it's (cant hear) handled right now. Fosse/Thank you. 2. Kubby/I had one thing and that is we got this memo about the transit route study and the public meeting and just so people know that May 6 meeting at the public library there wasn't a time on there but it's 3:45 to 5:45. And my concern about holding the public hearing at a regularly scheduled council meeting is if we keep our regular order of the meeting it won't, depending on public discussion if we have the Northeast District Plan public hearing, this could be late in the night and that the transit portion of the hearing may not be done before the last bus takes off. And so is there a procedure Marian that we can change, we can move to and advertise that we're going to do this to move that hearing up in the evening to ensure that transit riders can participate for that end of that public hearing and still catch the last bus? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 96 Karr/Well two things, all your public hearings are advertised the same way at 7:00. Kubby/Right. Karr/And that allows the flexibility for Council Members to change any items on the agenda, their discretion. Now certainly if Council would like to direct staff for preparing the agenda. Kubby/To put it further. Karr/To put it. Kubby/I guess I'd like to request that. Lehman/Well I would maybe suggest that we normally the events at the very beginning of the meeting last no longer than 10 or 15 minutes and then we have about 45 minutes of public discussion, maybe that would be the great time to run it, right there from 7:15 to 8:00. I think we'd have, we have to cut it off at 8:00, that public hearing is done. I mean we're not going to listen to public hearing's all night or 8:15 I mean I don't see any point. Kubby/Well we wouldn't cut off public hearing if it started at 9:00 PM later than. Lehman/We have, we have, yes, we have. We've asked them, or sometimes you have to. O'Donnell/I think we could go longer also if we can control it to 5 minutes. Lehman/Well we can do, well we can try. O'Donnell/Last time we had four people who took 50 minutes, we could hear more and when it's get repetitive then (can't hear). Lehman/Well the other thing we can also do. Kubby/(can't hear) to how many people show up. Lehman/We can also continue it. Kubby/Cause you've got, you might have people from all different routes who have five minutes without different routes. Norton/The transit thing is going to yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 97 Lehman/Well yea, but I. Kubby/Make sure there's a full hearing. Lehman/I think. Kubby/If that's continued that's OK too. Lehman/Yea. Kubby/But early is really important I think. Lehman/OK I have no problem with continuing it. But I've got a big problem letting it go more than an hour, cause we've got everybody else sitting here waiting for an agenda, and if we move it forward on the schedule that's fine, I have no problem. Kubby/But if we publish it from the very beginning people who are here for there agenda items see that there is that public hearing. Champion/But there might not be too many people are going to come. But an hour is all you can listen to something anyway. Lehman/Well then we can continue it. (All talking). Norton/We've listened to at least three. O'Donnell/(Can't hear). Champion/(can't hear). Kubby/It depends how many routes with all these different channels, we might have more. Lehman/Do we agree with that that we would have the hearing where we normally have public discussion. Champion/Right. Kubby/Well for an hour, not 45 minutes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 98 Lehman/For no more than an hour. Vanderhoef/The library one is at what time? Lehman/That's in the work session. Norton/But your saying we're having a separate session, I'm concerned on the Noaheast thing because some of that discussion could be at the council meeting. But we're going to have a separate session focusing on a sudden death, right. Lehman/Probably. Norton/After we get some input from these folks fight, so we can talk among ourselves about, and make sure we're together on the Noaheast Plan right? O'Donnell/Ernie, didn't you get the impression that they were going to be here Tuesday night to list their concerns? Lehman/I don't know what impressions I got from the Home Builders, I really don't know. They were just barely getting into some of what we should have been talking about for an hour and a half and the meeting was over. I think there are some legitimate questions that they have, I think for the most part we probably have answers for them, it's just that they don't understand them. Whether or not there going to be here tomorrow night I really don't know. O'Donnell/I expect (can't hear). Kubby/Yea. Norton/Yea. Champion/(can't hear). Kubby/So back to the transit thing, it's at the very beginning of the hearing you could say that we've moved this up to accommodate transit riders, and we'll go for an hour and if there's more to say we will continue it. Lehman/That's fine, I don't have a problem. Kubby/So people will know on the front end. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 99 Lehman/I have no problem with that. Kubby/Great. I thank you for that accommodation I think it's important to the riders. 3. Norton/I have a couple of quick reports I want to make, one is for Mike and me with respect to the SEATS subcommittee. Let me say first of all that the SEATS Advisory Committee on which we sit is not the fight contact thought nitty gritty about whether the county is doing the job for us SEATS wise. It's just, your talking about other issues there, and it's not the right context to bring up our particular concerns about reporting and so forth. Now Mike and I didn't want to sit down with Lisa whose a county employee and then ask her so I talked with Jonathan and they brought it up to the, I was looking for the process. They brought it up to the Board on Tuesday and decided that it would be OK if we have Joe (Fowler) our staff sit down with Lisa to identify what it is we're expecting, now I'm talking about reporting statistics that they are suppose to be preparing for us routinely. And Joe I think knows what to ask for there so I'm just telling you that's what we're going to ask Joe. Atkins/Have you spoken to Joe about that yet? Norton/No, I've got to go back to Joe because Jonathan just called me today and gave me the word that we're going to ask Joe to sit down and talk about the operational things and this other document that we're suppose to get guys which would have to do with operational policies, and the ridership survey I think we'll get that all right but have Joe was concerned with the more operational nitty gritty about bus up time and down time and riderships and things of that kind. So that's how we're going to proceed with that, Mike and I can't sit there and, in other words, don't leave the advisory committee to make it as for us to get much done there OK. 4. Norton/Now the other one is more complicated, almost more complicated that this, and that's the senior thing Co~mie and I went, met with, we didn't know where we were first, we met, Eleanor went with us and they had Pat and Carol Thompson, and Donovan and of course did the background. Lehman/Oh yes. Norton/But I didn't know whether he was a committee member of not, but at any rate we sat there quite a while figuring what are we a working group, a subcommittee, do we have an agenda, or are we advertised, or are we covered. You know we finally decided to call ourselves a working group, but we're still a little unsure about our status. And again process you see is moving it's ugly head here. But This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 100 we did manage to proceed after spending our wheels at this. And I just want to say I'm trying to put together a memo about this for your, but their, the argument from their point of view was that this was suppose to be a partnership but we ain't been very good partners, we haven't talked to them. OK. So city hasn't effectively consulted, noticed a sign in front of the building, for example, and other issues I'11. Champion/Old old. Norton/Oh it goes onto a whole litan~,.7)ofhorrors. Now they agreed that their appointees on that committee are not suppose to be making them, they haven't briefed them, they haven't told them what to expect, their members of that committee, and somebody said well there, besides their out voted. And Carol said well I think yea, you could have them outvoted if you want, 90 percent of the budget you could have the votes but it's there some strange mixtures about how this partnership ought to operate. And they feel that for example, we're considering the Senior Center expansion which Pat sees at a generational discussion and very important to them and funding of course that we're doing that without having been consulted. So anyhow, we expressed, so I haven't written this county views, city views which I'll try to summarize for you and next step, city and county needs to draft a policy guideline, that is about this question of partnership, how is it suppose to work, what are the priorities, we're not trying to revamp the 28e you understand. Lehman/But that' s what we really doing. Norton/Ultimately yea, but not at this point. Kubby/We'll lead to it. Norton/And Eleanor certainly. Champion/They argue with one word in that. Norton/But we need to get straight on a mechanism here in other words what do we mean by a partnership and what is the mechanism for that to happen? If we just, it's just crazy let me tell you, it's just crazy. Letunan/Well Dee the thing that I think that I and I've talked to Jonathan a little bit, and I met with Carol and Jonathan and Pat once, the purpose of this really is to provide service to seniors. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 101 Norton/True. Lehn~an/It isn't trying to protect our turf, or them protecting their turf. But I don't know that it's really seen that way. Norton/Well it's not because they said they for example as a city structure with a county program. Champion/Not only do they see it as city structured as a county program they think the only program here should be county wide. Norton/And senior dining does have a peculiar status despite what they (can't hear) and so on and on that goes back to the historical CDBG grant that funded the, so it's not an easy process to figure how, but we got to do some things pretty fast and their waiting for the space review from that committee, we're meeting again on May 7, and Connie and I in the meantime will try to put together some kind of a, our suggested about a mechanism and a policy but we're just playing this out, we're not doing anything weird yet, we'll let you know. Champion/I mean it was a (can't hear). Norton/But I'm telling you it was kind of interesting wasn't it? A lot of nitty gritty. Champion/Not what I anticipated at all. Kubby/Well I appreciate the reporting too it's very valuable. Norton/Well one of the things that comes out of it is that you know we spend a lot of time with them, and I mentioned it earlier tonight, I get excited every time I spend time with these agencies and we never totally talk around each other. And we're talking about trivia where we've got serious questions like SEATS and Senior Center and other areas of coordination that we don't seem to get talked about in our joint sessions. And I don't know quite why it is, even if their on the agenda they don't get, maybe it's too big a group for people to be frank and earnest. Champion/Yea, it is. Lehman/Well I tell you your group needs to be very flank. Norton/Well. Eleanor. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 102 Eleanor Dilkes/I think I just need to pass along one thing that occurred at the meeting, and that is that Pat White was seemed to be expressing much interest on the part of the county in talking with the council about the new space and the financing of it. And I told everyone there that there was nothing about the status of property acquisition, that means you could not talk about you know, what contributions are going to be made to financing space, so, they put the topic on the agenda for the joint meeting so you need to be. Norton/Well at one point Carol said well if it's a million dollars, it costs a million dollars to put them in there that means $200,000 for us. I said you've (can't hear) that was just a rough figures. But as I went 20 percent you know they've been doing that funding now there's some suggestion that number ought to be argued about too at some point because the number's actually 27. But it's going to be complicated to get this worked out as it is with SEATS, and nothing seems easy, well we've been through that before you guys were on the SEATS committee. Kubby/Well I think some of the complicatedness like knowing what structure to communicate it is because we, you know the supervisors or administrative people and we're policy people and that creates some. Norton/And they don't have any staff. Kubby/There' s just it's just jointed somehow to know the appropriate way to talk about stuff I think, we just need to cut through that and figure that out quick like it sounds like your starting to do. Norton/And yes, and one reason when we're trying to have a subcommittee and the question is what is the status of the subcommittee it's kind of hard, we understand we're representatives. O'Donnell/Well there the responsibility is us. Norton/Yes, it's unclear. Dilkes/I, Pat seemed to be more concerned about whether it was a meeting, you know, subject to open meetings or not, I don't think it was, and I frankly don't whether you call it a working group or a couple subcommittees from different bodies getting together really is what makes the difference but I was fine with ending up calling it a working group and. Norton/So, well anyhow we'll keep you informed but. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Lehman/Well. Champion/But they feel, I mean, you know, their, it was inter, they feel very wrong, I think they had (can't hear). Norton/Yea, it wasn't exactly friendly. Champion/No, it wasn't. Norton/In fact it was kind of tense. Lehman/It was sent, I've never sensed that before. Kubby/Well that's good for it to come out I mean cause your not, we're not going to cooperative agreement and that's true about SEATS too with that kind of tension is acknowledged. Norton/Sorry about that but it was tense, more tense than, it was kind of uncomfortable. Champion/We were attacked at the very beginning. Norton/Did you think it was kind of uncomfortable? Dilkes/Well I think one of the things that started it off very strangely was Jonathan Jordahl interpretation of the 28E agreement to mean that the city was going to provide the building and the county was going to be providing the services. Which. Norton/He said that' s one way of interpreting it. Dilkes/Yea, and I think that was sort of an odd interpretation of the agreement. Vanderhoef/Could we each have a copy of that 28E that agreement, I've never seen that particular one with the senior center. Champion/Oh I've got a copy of it. Norton/We'll see that you get it. Vanderhoef/I guess I'd like to read a little at least. Champion/And we spent a long time as guppies. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 Page 103 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 104 Norton/Oh I can give it to you it's only three pages, I'll see that you get one tomorrow. Dilkes/That, yes. O'Donnell/I'd like to have that too. Dilkes/And I think the other thing that I thought one of the best issues was and Dee (can't hear) was the mechanism for making decisions about the Senior Center. Now Terri was there, chair of the Senior Center Commission, Terri Miller, and Linda Kopping were both there and I know that, at least I think they feel very strongly about the Commission being that mechanism. And I got a feeling from the county that they don't necessarily see it that way and that may be a function of how much control they have of that commission I don't kd~ow. Norton/The commission to them is very different that what we plan to give the commission some responsibility, make some recommendations, and, but that's not at all, they their woo, they could hardly name the people that were on there let alone having given them any guidance or anything. Vanderhoef/But the commission goes and reports to the Board of Supervisors because you see it in the. Norton/Yes they do. Terri pointed that out, she said. Vanderhoef/They go and give the same kind of public report that we get. Champion/But not necessarily, not necessarily. Their commission members report to them. Vanderhoef/Pardon me. Champion/I mean there were people I could (can't hear). Norton/Terri reports to them but their commission members don't get much chance to report to them. Champion/They don't get any direction. Norton/No. I' 11 have to admit to that. Champion/Even the Senior Center members agree with the rest of them, I don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 105 Lehman/Must be agreeable. O'Donnell/Next time you'll go in there with a different attitude. Norton/Well, Connie and I got some work I'll be in touch with you incidentally, we need to sit down. O'Donnell/You really have it right on the head because I'm getting the feeling that there's no cooperation on the SEATS and what we're trying to do is SEATS, it's incredible (can't hear). It's a matter of control rather than providing service and I just, you know, it's frustrating but you just put your head down and go. Norton/Well there are some issues there because Joe has gotten some information from them and some of the issues are very much like the ones you met with at the slack time in the middle of the day and people are on funny different shifts and some of these exact issues that were battled by our previous league are still present in the present system and almost to the point where there's so much slack time that there was a talk of a separate, well they might run a separate grocery run you know, a ...bus system. Vanderhoef/The accountability performance accountability is not being given to us at this point. Norton/Right. Vanderhoef/And that certainly was part of the agreement. Norton/But then I said to Jonathan well I feel kind of funny sitting down with your employees saying what it is we want, we'll send our. Kubby/I don't know like why not? Norton/Well. Kubby/She's the head of the contracting agency so why isn't it appropriate, and like maybe with some communication saying you are going to do this but. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Norton/Well that's what I did I didn't want to go without telling Jonathan and he said wait till I talk to the Board on Tuesday so I. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 106 O'Donnell/I think you can sit down and talk to Sally and Jonathan, that's what you need to do, because Lisa is responsible for that, she's there with some (can't hear). Norton/Well we first of all got to get agreement, we have a 28E with them with a cited agreement, and with a site. Jonathan's copy of it isn't the same as mine, there's two paragraph's on ours that are not on his. Lehman/Oh. Champion/But if you'd be. (can't hear). Norton/Gees. Vanderhoef/Well adding services would be something that would be totally different than the 28E agreement (can't hear) says and certainly I suspect that they would want to reopen the for cost (can't hear) if they added service in there and if there's a service being added then that's something we need to. Champion/We don't cover CDBG services though (can't hear) interpreted was that they were the only ones (can't hear) provide services there. Kubby/Your talking Senior? Norton/No, their talking SEATS now, we're talking SEATS. Norton/We've got, their similar but not. (all talking). Lehman/I was with you. Norton/All fight, I'm shutting up. Lehman/OK. Any other thing for council time? I've got one thing, I'd like to have you think about, you know we voted to prohibit parking on Tower Court. Champion/(can't hear). Lehman/I have a problem with, no, I have a problem. Norton/Between certain times. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 107 Lehman/I have a problem with prohibiting parking on both sides of any street if it isn't for a public purpose. I mean if it isn't for health and safety, I can understand limiting the hours of parking to more than two or three hours or whatever, but, I just think that if we can ban parking on both sides of a public street that we plow, we maintain, we own, and whatever, if we do that, we're going to have people asking us from all over town to do that and I don't think that's a good policy. CHANGE REEL TO 99-47 SIDE 2 Lehman/Only place in Iowa City that we have banned parking on both sides of the street except for health or safety reasons. (All talking). Champion/Parking on either side of the street. Lehman/Is that because of the ware to the street? O'Donnell/What you have to do then is get them to change the ordinance because or change the procedure because these people followed the policy, do the procedure, and we tell them no after they do it. Lehman/All I'm saying is that I think it's a bad policy to even consider it. O'Donnell/(can't hear) so we have to change the process. Norton/Well Ernie we have to go back to Manville Heights then because day storage was the problem there right, everybody from the hospital parks and walks across the bridge. Lehman/It's just something to think about. Champion/The other thing, I know one more thing to think about about that parking on Tower Street, or whatever it is. Atkins/Tower Court. Champion/I mean there's a little park at the end now, it will have to be totally unusable by mothers and children for picnics (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999 April 19, 1999 Council Work Session Page 108 Lehman/Fathers and children too. Champion/Grandparents. Lehman/Oh. (All Talking). Norton/We've done the procedures. Lehman/Well I talked to Jeff about it, I don't have a problem, I don't think it's a good idea. O'Donnell/Only bicycles and horses. Champion/And elephants. Lehman/No, no, we're going home. Kubby/OK, so 7:00 tomorrow. Lehman/Yes. Adjourned 10:20 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 19, 1999. WS041999