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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-05-05 TranscriptionMay 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 1 May 5, 1999 Special Council Work Session 8:00 AM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Dilkes, Franklin, Fowler, Helling, Karr, Davidson, Yucuis, Trueblood, Craig, Kopping, Rocca Tapes: 99-54, all; and 99°55, S1 and part S2. A complete transcription is available in the City Clerk's office. Overview 99-54 S1 Lehman/ I think we're ready to go. Good morning fellow council members. (All talking) O'Donnell/I'm up every morning by 10, 11 o'clock. Lehman/ In other words you'll be awake in about three hours, go ahead. Atkins/ O.K. ready to go? Ah, what I'd like to do is start off with about 15 minutes worth of presentation to sort of um, kind of figure out where we are as well as a good bit, some of this you're gonna be familiar with, some of this is for the audience. This packet, there are extra ones available, ah this, these are the copies of the overheads I'm gonna be using, so you can do your scribbles on this based upon what we put up above, so and council my presentation while for informational purposes is intended to inform the audience about tax levies, tax rates things such as that, my questions, ah will be pointed will be pointed at you. My intent was not to engage the audience but we'll be one question real quick is, I show the community events center, ah in one of our documents. Well you haven't taken it out yet so that will be your decision. Well, kind of like tax issues over where do we go from there? O.K.? The first chart, um poses three questions to you, what do you want to finance, ah how can we go about it, and what are the consequences? When I say what do you want to finance, I'm referring to projects, programs, policies. You all are aware that capital, budgets and operational budgets are from substantially different tax levies and we'll go into that in a couple of minutes. I think the thing you need to think about as we go thru these projects where do you have choices? That is, we can do this - we don't have to do this. Where is it preordained, I said preordained and the light slid over you (laughter) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2 /I have more respect Lehman/ Not a good sign Atkins/ I'm not worthy I know I know... Lehman/ Not a good sign O.K. Atkins/ And then the bottom line, ah when you decide what you're going to finance, you're ultimately going to have to make some priority decisions. Ah, how can we go about it? That's a financial question with respect to certain financial alternatives, as you know, they are limited in Iowa. We will go through those. And then the final questions is what is the consequences ah, of my, um my decisions my being the city council now. I listed what I believe to be four factors that you need to think about when you're shaping any type of a major, and in this case, a comprehensive capital plan that's going to have long term impact on our operating budget. Ah, the first issues are financial, what's the cost to the taxpayers? One of the questions I'll ask you later on, will you accept a property tax increase? If you say no to that, we fold up our tent and go home because we're done. Because all of these things will cost us more. Secondly, is ah the financial commitments that you chose to make. Ah, long term debt is going to be an underlying decision that has to be made. But whenever you make a long term capital and then you have to identify the operating costs, the question you need to ask yourself is, are we precluding ourselves, precluding ourselves from other programs in the future? In other words do we lock ourselves in with a decision today that doesn't allow us something in the future? With respect to financial, ah these projects are a sufficient consequence that they could have an effect on our credit rating. Ah, particularly if it is on top of the current capital plan that you've already approved. We did meet with representatives of Moody. Moody's oh, what was it now about a week or so ago, and while they make no commitments there was every indication that our ah our continuing good, credit triple A credit rating, barring any dramatic change in the economy should be sound. So, credit rating is important and I wanted to have it checked out, ah there is no given on this thing but it's something that you need to think about. Kubby/ Steve, was that with our current budget? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 3 Atkins/ Yes. We took the current budget, we laid these projects on top of it. What does that do? We ran some quick numbers for him, ah him, Tom O'Donnell the representative who's been doing our credit analysis for years, and tactfully he said well I can't promise anything but you're numbers again look again with your ability to repay your debt. You all are aware and I think that ah, one of the items the audience often, not this audience, but an audience public in general is that tax rates and tax base in Iowa are substantially set by the state, they make that on our behalf. When you use a property tax you automatically shrink the base. Sales taxes are broader base. so you have to think about that. And then finally, financially is the use of cash and I'll be showing you that we might want to use some cash but again I want you to express some caution. A second policy area for you to think about is political and that's pretty straightforward folks. What is the level of community support for the particular projects? Ah, you will have to seek consensus amongst yourselves. I know from talking to you there are seven differences of opinion on these projects and so keeping that in mind the political issues will be something important to you. Third point of consequences is called policy. Many of the projects are tied back to other policies. For example, ah, a library project, a Senior Center project, ah, we have a downtown policy and that we are to create destination points. In my judgment, those are both destination points. I know you have a variety of opinions about branches and so forth but there other policies outside of just the financial. Ah, the library has a number of requests, Senior Center, we'll go over those. There is a policy that we'll discuss again briefly. It is a federal policy and that is called Storm Water Management. We will be undertaking a major environmental initiative over the next couple of years expect how are we going to do deal with that. Last night someone did mention the term unfunded mandates. We have those, we have an act that says you can't do that. The only problem is Congress always exempts themselves from it and you know that rest of the routine. Finally the fourth issue of consequence is organizational. I've already referred to it. If you make a major commitment now, can you meet your future needs? That is what are some of the, and also interest. Needs are such based upon the growth of community, the changing character of the community. Interests are the things we'd like to be doing that we're not doing now. You, very delicate balance act. Ah, I know that I have to do it financially and you have to do it politically and from a policy standpoint to make sure that a disproportionate share of our available revenues doesn't go one way, gets locked it up and then have yourself in a box, Ah, as a matter This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4 Lehman/ Atkins/ Lehman/ of legacy that's something you want to pass on to future council. Those are things you have to think about. And finally, most of what I'm going to present to right now is with that assumption, that is there is no change in the current budget you've adopted a budget. It is done, finished, we've started work on it and we're ready to go. However, I know and you know that if you want to go back into that budget and since we do it on a three year plan you can do that. That is an option to deal with some of the things that you're going to talking out shortly. But just as sort of a foundation for the discussions, I'm making the assumption that what you approve during the budget process is go. But you can make those changes. (Visual) This is intended to kind of show you what you're dealing with. I believe right now. What are the capital issues? A new addition to the library? A renovation and a new community events center was the package that was put forth in the sales tax proposal. You have a request from your Senior Center Commission for an addition of space to the Senior Center as a component of the Iowa Ave parking garage. And the federal Storm Water Regulations, I put a question mark folks because we just simply haven't been able to answer that. We did a little basic research and we find that historically we do about a half a million dollars a year in capital storm water projects. Historically, from our general obligation debt. So if you want to put that down that will likely grow as we have to meet the new federal regulations. But those are the capital issues that are one the table sort of right now for you to talk about. Now what are the operational issues associated with those capital? Staff for the library, addition renovation, and these are very rough estimates, incidental expenses for the library if addition and renovation were to occur. A subsidy for the community events center. You'll recall the studies that were done. The bottom line is how much income would come in, how much expense would go out? And ifI recall, that did not include debts service that was just operations... These are annual numbers. Yes, excuse me Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 5 Atkins/ Thanks you, Ernie, they are annual numbers. Incidental expenses at the Senior Center. Incidental, to turn the lights on, you know those things. One of the proposals to finance the Senior Center would require the use of cash so I show an internal loan that is where we borrow from ourselves and our tradition has been if we do that, we pay ourselves back with interest. So we don't loose anything. The Storm Water Management and the maintenance, we're still working on that. Ah, I think we believe that substantially going to be a capital expense as opposed to an operational expense. You saw Rick's culvert clean out voto craft somebody does have to do those things. ...(can't hear) Thornberry/You said though that down on the operational budget issues, down for Storm Water Management maintenance fight now we're doing a half million a year? Atkins/ We're doing about a half a million dollars a year in capital expense, storm water projects and how we came up with that is that if we'll do a street project, we'll go in and repair storm water, do something such as that. Often storm water is also associated with development and the developer has to grant us some... Thornberry/Um Hugh Atkins/ ...but our sort of out of pocket is about a half million dollars a year. Norton/ Steve why are some big items left out of the capital thing, like public works or top divisions to roads or the Sycamore grants... (All talking) Atkins/ ...that's already in the budget approved by you. Norton/ Atkins/ You have, and I said, something is... (All talking) Atkins/ ...is done, if you want to go back into that budget ... Norton/ Yeah, O.K.O.K. Atkins/ ...that's O.K. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 6 Atkins/ O.K. Now I like to spend a couple of minutes ah, just to remind you all from our operational stand point... (Visual) Lehman/ I like that, it cool. Atkins/ Is that better? Lehman/ I like the other one better. Atkins/ I figured you would. You can't get into trouble... (Laughter) Kubby/ Can't do anything... Atkins/ Can't do anything, either absolutely. Our general fund budget is about $33 million a year, of which about 60% is property tax. The remainder is made up of fees, charges, contracted services. By state law, we have available to us various property tax levies. And the levies are specific with respect to what you can do with them. And I want to just take a minute or two to kind of run these by you again. We have an eight-ten general operating levy. Any legitimate government purpose, it's our primary general fund levy. It grows, that is increases, by way of taxable value. Taxable value, not assessed, taxable value. You understand that? Because of rollbacks and exemptions and so forth that are applied. It is a maximum levy. A citizen will often say well you just raised the property a little bit and that eight-ten, not eight- eleven not eight-twelve it's eight-ten, that's it. You're done, you can't go any higher than that. It has the effect, in my judgment, of granting us an allowance. You take you tax breaks times the tax rate, that's the money you have available to you, and that's again a matter of law. It is a council initiated levy that's your choice. The taxable value is an important element. Our assessed value is about 63% residential, and 37% commercial-industrial. However, the taxable value, is fifty-fifty. Taxable value Atkins/ Taxable value is fifty-fifty. You take the value, you understand, after you apply rollbacks and exemptions and you know that the complaint is that residential is not bearing it's fair share. lfyou're going to grow a component of the economy which one will generate the most income, clearly commercial and industrial because of the values that placed to them. We also have a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 7 Kubby/ Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ Lehlnan/ Atkins/ transit levy. It only for transit use. It council initiated, it's a maximum levy, 95¢ is tops and it also grows by way of increase in taxable value. In 1993, that was 54¢, it is now 95¢. We immediately took the full benefit of that change in the state legislation. You have an employee benefits levy. It also grown by way of the increase in the taxable value and the rate because it has no upper limit. The employee benefits levy is council initiated but it can only pay for pensions, social security, health insurance, life insurance for employees, that is the employers share is in that levy and you must use your eight-ten before you can kick that in. Do we know what current percent of our employee benefits that are, that's being paid for by that levy? Cause it's not all of it. No. The only note that I would add to that, Don might be able to give you a better number, it is overwhelmingly all of our benefits are in here for those people in the general fund. Those folks that are in the water fund or the sewer fund, they are charged to that operational fund. O.K. So it's safe to say a 100% of the general fund funded employees... Except for... ...that their benefits are paid for from that fund? Right. The only thing that is unusual here, and we are unusual in the sense, you'll have to run with, that we are unusual in the sense that when the state took over the police and fire pension, we were fully funded. We didn't have any ground to make up and so when we sent them the $17 million check a number of years ago, we had monies available to us and we used that to use that levy down. We had estimated at the time that we could probably get seven to ten years out of that to pay for the police and fire, ah we believe that it's more like ten now. Investment income has been good and we will continue. However, someday those monies will go away and that expense will go against will go against that employee benefit levy ergo an increase property tax. Steve. I don't know if I understood exactly what your answer to Karen's question, but aside from the revenue funds, like sewer and water and whatever, are we now paying all of our employee benefits out of the employee benefits levy? If you're in general fund... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 Lehman/ Atkins/ Lehman/ Lehman/ Norton/ Atkins/ Yeah. ... it's paid for out of this levy. In other words, we are not using any general funds monies aside for employee benefits... (All talking) ...we're already levying everything... To the fullest, how's this, to the fullest extent practical and that's what I'm saying... (All talking) Lehman/ There's no whistle room here in other words. Atkins/ There's to the fullest extent practical we apply benefits directly to this levy. Lehman/ All fight. Norton/ How is the pension thing working, we're using interest on that or... Atkins/ No. What we do, is that there is the IPERS, the general employee. I'm covered, Jeff, Karen, Donna, Dale. But then there's separate pensions for police and fire. And you can charge that against that this levy because of the strength of our position at the time of the take over by the state. That is, we paid our bill to cover our current employees and whatever their projections were, we had cash on hand. That cash on hand then is being used plus the investment income to keep this levy down for fire and police. Norton/ Is that gonna be over you said in about ten years? Arkins/ No. It was good for about ten years, we're probably into our sixth or seventh year? Norton/ Will that add to the employee benefits...? Atkins/ Ah, well it probably amounts to over $300,000 a year, so you're probably talking 20, 30¢ more on that levy... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 9 (All talking) Norton/ ...but gradually increased the employee benefits... (All talking) Atkins/ No it won't, once it's gone it's gone. You... Norton/ But how do you replace it? By increasing the employee benefits levy. Atkins/ Oh Yeah, but you can not increase the employee benefits levy for the sake of increasing it. You can bring it to the point to cover the cost, we have to demonstrate, here's the bill there's the levy, they match. Norton/ Yeah. Atkins/ You can't earn a little income out of it. Vanderhoef/ There truly isn't a fund at that point, it's just ongoing. Atkins/ Lehman/ Norton/ Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ It's just ongoing. It's really not a source of revenue in that you can use it for anything other than ... ... No I understand that but it does mean that the employee benefits levy will... The employee benefits levy will increase at sometime in the near future near future in the next four to five years. Do we know how much that $300,000 will increase if we maintain the additional six police officers and the nine fire fighters? Yeah, we calculated all of that into our projection... When we did our projections about hiring people we always incorporate not only basic compensation but all the other peripheral benefits. Kubby/ Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 10 Atkins/ Yeah, so that's all factored in. And it's correct, I mean on occasion if you turn over, if you have less police and fire you have less of a demand on that, there by brings that number down. O.K. Champion/We have less than anybody... Atkins/ Yeah. I guess that's not profound is it? (Visual) Champion/No. Atkins/ O.K. We also have in our property taxes a library levy, also grows by way of increase in the taxable value. It's a maximum levy 27¢. It has required voter approval. Back in '93 it was approved and we immediately put it onto into our operations. At that time, it has been used to support library operations and the decision was made that we would ad staff immediately as well as provide some additional money for library materials and supplies. And that's what we did with that 27¢ and for all practical purposes if you were to carve out the number of employees and materials it would be substantially the same as that number. That generates $400,000 and some odd thousand dollars a year, that's again voter approved. Now debt service is general obligation debt. General obligation debt is full faith and credit. The upper limit of that tax rate is based upon our property, tax base is based upon our property values. We are limited to 5% of the assessed value. Assessed value. How that translates is that our FY2000 budget has an assessed value of 2.4 billion dollars. Which means we have an allowable debt by law of a $121 millions. Lehman/ It's assessed value not taxable value. Atkins/ Assessed value. Lehman/ It's interesting that that distinction... Atkins/ Well... Lehman/ ... because the assessed value is almost twice what the taxable value is. Atkins/ Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 11 Vanderhoef/ Atkins/ $121 million. I'll show you a chart on that shortly. It's in your packet. We have an outstanding debt now of $47 million or about 39%. We're well within our and those are some of the numbers when we took it to the Moody's guys. I said O.K. now we want to lay some debt on top of that what might that mean? And I have a chart that will show you that shortly. And it's council initiated but limited. You understand the consequences of it simply from our last budget go around that when our capital plan was as big as it was OUCH. And that's when we made our decisions. It can only be used for debt payments. That's it. We also have tort liability levy. Tort liability also grows at a taxable value but has a limit on the rate. The rate is in effect means that the insurance premiums and the related costs that we have to pay for our general property coverage, liability etc.. Whatever that number is and how that translates into a tax rate that's how that the limit on that. Now you'll recall the history, Yes Connie? Champion/But all your liability can come out of that fund? Right? Atkins/ Yes, substantially of it, I mean there's certain de~nitional issues in the law I don't have it front of me but substantially that's what it is. That's council initiated. You'll all remember the history of that. We chose to add the police officers. We wanted to reduce some the pressure on the eight-ten, we took out insurance which used to be in the eight-ten, added this levy and what amounts to a tax increase and that's how we got where we got on that one. Now how do you grow the general fund? These are your levies we've got some other things we'll talk about momentarily, but the general fund is made up of again, substantially property tax and loaded with a number of fees. Recreation fees, the library contract with the county senior contract with the county, fire contract with the University of Iowa, all of those services financed out of the general fund and the fees that they generate are put back against that. The only one in there that you might have some policy flex, I mean real policy flexibility unless you were gonna, I'm assuming you're not going to raise recreation fees to support housing or to, you're just not going to do that. I mean, you'll try to have a fee in the service, try to march locks, you can do that, but you have to be cautious obviously about pushing a fee too high that chases the program away and diminishes it's value to you. Thornberry/Terry did that a little bit already. Atkins/ What's that? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 12 Thornberry/They've already done some of that. Terry already did that. Atkins/ Terry raises the fees in accordance with the policy that it's 45% property tax funded and 55%. Is that about right? (All talking). Atkins/ O.K., a little lower than that. And that's be an ongoing but approximately. The only other real direct tax where you might have some flexibility is the hotel tax for 7%. You have stated policy position on how you distribute those monies. You all recall when we went through the convention of visitor's bureau debate a couple of years ago. We thought about making some changes in that. Norton/ We still have a few degrees freedoms in respect to the use of reserves don't we, Steve? Atkins/ Yes, you do. You're reserves in your general fund are for all practical purposes kind of almost umTestricted, I mean as long as you don't do anything... Norton/ Rash. Atkins/ I mean rash as a matter of policy but also practically I think you can pretty well say your reserve position in your general fund grants you pretty broad flexibility. Kubby/ Are you gonna talk about that in some more detail... ? Atkins/ Yeah. Kubby/ ... in terms of how much we typically use from our reserves... Atkins/ I'd not intended to that, but I can do that... Kubby/ Atkins/ O.K., if you'll hold that questions we'll get to that and we'll do that. (Visual) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 13 Atkins/ O.K. now what I want to give you now is this is a ten year summary of our tax rates. I take that back, twelve years. 1990, just to give you kind of a feel for how the tax rates have changed. I would call your attention to 1993, reading across that's when we added the library. That was when the 27¢ went an increase. The eight-tens remained unchanged. Reading across further over under transit in 1992-1993 it went from 54¢ to 95¢. Reading in 1999, current budget we're in we added the ton liability levy for the first time. Point that I want to make to you is that our tax rate in 1999 the thirteen one thirty-three. If you take the tax rate in 1990 twelve o two eight see that up at the top? And you add in transit and you add in tone liability and add in library, that's about where we are. Our tax rates haven't changed much. This year was the most dramatic change. And I think you can see that and that's directly associated with capital. Where it went in 1999 from one eight six eight to two three zero zero. You see those numbers that was a substantial increase. You with me on that? Um huh (Handout) Atkins/ O.K.O.K. all the tax rates are nice, ah tells you what the state will permit you do, the income they generate is another question because that also is substantially regulated by the state. I bring this chart to your attention just to simply to give you a few flag points. From 1990 through 2000, the current budget in your first colunto is the general of the eight-ten levy. It has grown from ninety-two ninety-one to thirteen nine eighty one. That's an average annualized rate of just a little bit over 4%. That includes new construction, new value, point that I'm making to you is that that eight-ten is always one of tighter levies that we have to deal with, ah cause the state is forever puttsing around with that. So you have about a 4% growth factor. We have a high from '94 to '95 were it grew by 7% and we have a low back in '97-'98 were only grew by 2%. So there is some fluctuation, but I think we can safely project that 4% grow in our eight-ten levy. Point that I'm trying to make to you is that we're having with new construction, which is also a demand for new service, I mean we've been living on growth for sometime. But the bottom line is that it's just a tad bit ahead of inflation. Norton/ Isn't that partly what the rollback is all about? (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 14 Atkins/ Absolutely that's what the state does, is that then they will apply rollbacks and our assessed value has grown, grows well. But it's the taxable value. O.K. Kubby/ It works against that query works against it on... Norton/ It certainly does. But it speaks again to our need... (All talking) Atkins/ The next chart... (All talking) Arkins/ The next chart is, ah just to give you a feel for the debt margins and percentages things that we keep track of and what I've shown here for your information is that we are... Thornberry/Steve? Atkins/ Yes? Thornberry/Going back to this last page, this tort liability started in 1999. It goes up rather dramatically by 2002. Atkins/ That's correct. We added additional police officers, remember, through the grant. We knew that the grant would last three years. The grant would begin to phase out and as it phased out, we would have to charge more of our insurance against that particular levy as opposed to the general fund levy. Thornberry/That over an above what we... Atkins/ Yes. Norton/ Is there a limit on that levy? Atkins/ The limit is premiums and any costs directly associated with. Yes, it's very... Norton/ No limit though... Atkins/ ...there's no limit, but it must be very specific, we have got to be able to substantiate it... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 15 Lehman/ Arkins/ Lehman/ Atkins/ That still is more than double between '99 and 2002, it's got to be more than just police officers. No, not really Ernie, I mean there has been some increases... ...more police officers more than double the amount of liability insurm~ce we have? Well, we added eight police officers with one grant six police officers with another grant we have projected nine fire fighters to begin staff in '01, so I mean I'm just letting, this is a large number of employees. Kubby/ Atkins/ Yes, you will. (All taking) Thornberry/God dang it... We'll be running out of our stash. By then we're gonna be in ... Atkins/ ...there's whole bunch of factors that are associated, I mean I've not had it called stash but I understand the... (Laughter -All talking) Lehman/ Probably won't do that again... (All talking) Atkins/ O.K. This is just simply to give you a feel and this is not to pass merit or judgement on it, but if we were to continue at our current budget by the year of '04 we're at 48% percent of our allowable debt margin you can see that number, we're in good shape and we have our self-imposed 25% policy and that's without adding anything. / You O.K. on that? Atkins/ That's were you'll find that $121 million I was talking to you earlier about. Norton/ You increased property valuations there by how much, Steve? Atkins/ Generally, around, in the 3% range we project those. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 16 Norton/ O .K. Atkins/ Yeah, and then the next hand out... Norton/ You didn't change any rollback or anything? Atkins/ No l'm saying, I'm flat lining the rollback. Norton/ I hear it's going to 45%. (All talking) Atkins/ I mean, I can tell you when the rollback was 80%. Yeah, I mean we've got cameras on council time. I remember that. The next chart is if you were to add in the $22.5 million capital project that was the highest profile issue again during the sales tax debate. You see when those numbers change. We do in '03 exceed our self-imposed policy of 25% but our allowable debt is at 65%. Again, numbers we're not terribly uncomfortable with but it does as you can see it really does increase dramatically in '92 we were at 22% of that. (Inaudible) Atkins/ Yeah, there's a second, there they look very much alike. One says with and one says without. (All talking) Atkins/ I've got the with up there now, I'm sorry Connie, you with me now? Champion/But my numbers are different than yours. I like mine better. Atkins/ Oh, I can understand why you would, yeah, just grab the one you want and run with it. O.K., I'm sorry they look very similar, one is with and one is without. Again, that includes... Norton/ I'm impressed there are not more disparity... Atkins/ Well, we were pleased when we were running it by our credit rating is that the numbers did look O.K.. Again, that's assuming the budget as you This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 17 approved it is in place. O.K.? And then the next and final chart, we've made the assumption that the old hundred thousand house. Champion/ How many of those do we have? (Laughter -All talking) Atkins/ If you have a hundred thousand house take it times 2 and you're in pretty good shape. What I'm just trying to is give you a number so, for a talking point. We make the assumption if you were to approve the $22.5 millions worth in capital projects it would not go on line as far as part of our debt until around the year 2000, or budget year 2003, cause we would not have to have the permanent financing in place until the projects ready to go. But the bottom line for you is it's about $65 a year. Now you can take that times pretty much any factor if someone's got a hundred fifty thousand take it times 1.5 and it's a hundred bucks. (All talking) Kubby/ So that doesn't include Senior Center? (Laughing) Atkins/ It is $22.5 million worth of capital. Now... (All talking) Atkins/ Yes, that's a number we use a lot, we can give you a whole scenario of things, but it's the one to kind of have in your pocket. (Inaudible - Laughter) Atkins/ What I would suggest to you is that you need to settle in, you need to settle down, (laughter) on a capital decision of some kind. Now what form it will take that's really gonna be up to you. You have some proposals in front of you, specific requests from the library, specific requests from the Senior Center. Once you've settle in on just a general frame work of the capital project, you need to ask yourself immediately a heart beat later, how do we pay for the operations? What are the operational costs? To increase our operational budget the tax base is not something easy. The state has substantial control. We can grow our economy, that's go~ma take sometime. You can increase some fees, and of course you can reduce some expenses This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 18 internally. What I believe we need to do is sort of go back to that first page and ask yourself what do you want to finance? Thornberry//Well, I thought the library was gonna have a bond issue. Atkins/ They are. (All talking) Atkins/ But only you can authorize that. Norton/ We gotta decide whether... Thornberry/If that's the case, then it's the ongoing expenses, is that what... Atkins/ That's the question. Now, one of the things you need to shape a capital plan and you need an operating plan. And again, I'll be very candid with you that you're eight-ten levy severely limits your ability to expand any type of general fund public service. I would go so far as to say that I think that something else is going to have to go from that budget. Now the project you shape, there's a cultural levy of 27¢, there are some other things that we could put in, but until you begin to shape a project, I guess I'd like to hold back and comment on those. Ernie, one the thoughts I had, this may be dangerous... (All talking) Atkins/ I think one of the questions that you all need to ask yourself because you have specific requests from your boards and commissions, what can you agree on? I mean, let's make a list of the things we can agree on. And I thought the easiest one, to start with, was, are you will to hold back on 64- la? / No problem (Laughter) Atkins/ O.K., I gave you an easy one up front. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 19 Lehman/ The only thing Steve, is we know that there may be some interest in 64-1a. For people other than or in conjunction with the library. Folks that bought the Holiday hm have expressed a possible interest in portions of that lot. Like the ground floor. Lehman/ I don't know, I have no idea and they don't either, it's just that there may be some interest there, and if there is some interest on their part, I mean to me that would be a beautiful marriage. Kubby/ Right, but that's different than delaying the disposition of it. You can formulate something that would have multiple users of that. Norton/ That would be a joint... (All Talking) Kubby/ ...but not do anything until we make decisions for our own use. Lehman/ ...off course, delaying it is probably no problem because... (All Talking) Lehman/ ...jumping up and trying to buy it. Norton/ We can just hang on to 1 -A for the moment, I'd say. Lehman/ Well, the only thing is just I would not want us to say that we will not, I would not be in a position where we would say that we would definitely would not entertain any discussion of developing that property for a period of time. Because something may come up that we do want to be involved with, whether it be with the library, the Holiday Inn, or whatever. Atkins/ And I see two parts to that decision. One is timing, are you how long are you willing to wait? And two, are you going to keep the whole site? Preserve it? Or are you going to preserve a portion of it? Again, with all due respect folks, the bottom line is we got to agree on certain things or we're not gonna get anywhere with the design or proposing any of these projects. Vanderhoef/The reason why we delay, I think is as an important a question in here as the delay. If delay means to say the library that that's theirs totally verses delay for possible development or to put it out for development. I think we gotta split that apart. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 20 (All Talking) Library 99°54 S1 Atkins/ 64-1 a is the parking lot immediately adjacent to the Holiday Inn. It's about 37,000 square feet, tad bit less than a acre. It was purchased during the urban renewal days and has been sitting there for sometime. That's the 25 word or less summary? O.K. Champion/ But can't we agree that if we're gonna have a library expansion if we're clearly at the library that we're going to incorporate it to whatever we do with that. (All Talking) Lehman/ Well that's up to them, I think that we need a proposal from the Library Board. And, for me, until we hear from the Library Board, I've no problem saying let's sit on 64-1a and let's see what happens. I have no problem with that at all. (All Talking) Kubby/ Except that they don't want to start over with design. That they have either the expansion onto 64-1 a or westward. Norton/ We already know what they'd do if they stayed off o f 64-1 a, we already know the westward expansion notions been explored endlessly, so we know what that would be... Thornberry/...endlessly I'm not sure. There was talk also of another location. Norton/ I understand. Yeah, but looks to me like 64-1a certainly ought to be hung onto, that does not preclude the possibility of some kind of joint concern that would facilitate overall downtown economically for example if it's a hotel. Thornberry/Yes and his going to happen quite quickly if they want a November referendum. So I don't see any problem delay until that point, but if the Holiday Inn people came and said, hey... Norton/ Thornberry/...I think that we would at least entertain the idea of discussing it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 21 Norton/ Lehman/ Kubby/ Letunan/ Atkins/ Lehman/ Atkins/ Lehman/ Norton/ Atkins/ Or incorporating something yeah. We would agree, I think, that we would probably not be running out as soon as this meetings over trying to sell 64-1 a. I think we're comfortable in waiting until we hear from the Library Board on what their proposals might be. Folks, I think you have a proposal from the Library Board. We have? I think you do. I think you have a proposal that they want to go to a referendum in November. That they want a library project substantially as projected under and get rid of the community events center. I think you have a proposal in front of you. On 64-1 a? Yeah. Thornberry/I haven't seen that proposal... Lehman/ ...I don't know that that's been communicated to us... (All Talking) Thornberry/I read that too, but they're not calling it the community events center anymore. Atkins/ No it's gone. (All Talking) Thornberry/Yeah, but they are calling it something else? (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 22 Thornberry/64-1 a's all library then? Atkins/ Well, that portion of the project that is library. The library library addition did not take up all of 64-1 a. It was the library and community events center. The library has peeled off community events center. That's gone. They're saying we need a portion of 64-1a to build our addition on. The remaining portion is subject to debate by you all. Do you want a community events center, do you want to hold it for a hotel? I don't know. Lehman/ Just a minute though... Atkins/ Did I say that right library folks? / Actually not. Atkins/ Oh good. Singerman/We are in the process of looking at plans. We've asked you to delay the decision on 64-1 a before we can come to you... (All Talking) Atkins/ She'll stop fight there. Singerman/Let's see, there are several things we're asking you to do. Some of them seem self-evident. First, is we don't think we want to go back to the voters with the sales tax referendum. Thank you. And we believe that the community events center, although it's a worth project and many of us worked for it, that these things have to be decided separately by the voters. And so the proposal that we will come to you with would be a library alone, expansion. Now what that project is and exactly where it is we haven't determined. But obviously 64~ 1 a would figure prominently in our plans and we would like to know if we have the option of looking at that from your point of view. And that's as far as we are, we're meeting again... (End Tape 99-54 S1) Tape 99-54 S2 Singerman/...to discuss our planning process and our goal had been to come back to you on May 17th and talk further about where we're at and engage you in our discussions, but we would prefer if you didn't dispose of 64-1 a before we can tell you what we think about it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 23 Lehman/ And I appreciate what she's saying, because I would like to think that a proposal that would go on a ballot would not be just the last proposal taking out the... Norton/ Lehman/ I think it needs to be far more comprehensive that that if it has any chance of passing and I'm glad to hear what you're, I mean I do think you're right. I don't think there's a problem holding this... Atkins/ Let me... Lehman/ Pardon? Atkins/ Is there support on the part of the council that you'll consider another library project? / Yeah. Atkins/ Yes? Thornberry/Well, it ah... Vanderhoef/That's a dollar and cents problem. Thornberry/Yeah it is. Atkins/ Cause the next question I'm gonna ask you, is then how do you intent to operate it? Norton/ Lehman/ Well, I think it would be difficult to say we wouldn't consider something before we see it. (All Talking) Vanderhoef/ No, how many dollars can we afford to spend on a project? Atkins/ If a library project is put forth and you're gonna build an addition to the library and renovate the existing library there's an immediate operational This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 24 cost, there's an immediate cost for debt service. Now are those, the debt service we can cover, how do you intend to operate it? Norton/ I think we've got to commit to a library project, there's simply no way out of it. I think it needs to be flexible enough to allow for options that might arise, whether it's commercial on top or whether it's connected with the hotel, but I think we ought to get a library project together. I think we really have to identify the operating thing first because every time we, I think we can handle it the financing... Atkins/ Capital you can't... (All talking) Lehman/ Norton/ ...operation now but now let's look at where that that's gonna be there no matter what form of the library so let's talk about where we're gonna dig that... (All Talking) Vanderhoef/ What do we take away from... ? Norton/ ...does mean do that mean canceling something we've done in the way of persom~el for example? Vanderhoef/How many firefighters... Kubby/ ...we've placed ourselves in this position (All talking) Atkins/ My next question is that, if you're going to reduce the operating budget I want some guidance. Because we just adopted a budget. Thornberry/What I'd like to see is if the library has a referendum and it's voted on by the people and approved that on that referendum they know in the long term that their property taxes are going to be affected for the... (All Talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 25 Thornberry/It's not just for the building of the library, it's the ongoing expenses for operations. / But we can't add on to... Atkins/ I want to qualify that a tad bit. Thomberry/It's not an add on to the ten, it's a referendum to increase their property taxes. (All Talking) Vanderhoef/...not for operational, eight-ten is eight-ten and that's how much money we've got... Norton/ Look we could say that we would have a year we can't levy a cultural levy until you have something in the cultural category. So you might have a year or two gap, down the road... (All Talking) Atkins/ Not for the library. Norton/ Why not? Atkins/ You can not, because the law won't permit it. (All talking) Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ Kubby/ You may use the cultural levy to finance the community events center. Are there other things that ... are currently in our eight-ten that would fall under the category of cultural, even though it might be small events like jazz fests, art fests those community events that are definitely cultural. (All talking) Atkins/ Well, I'm not so sure that that's gonna buy you much. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 26 Kubby/ I'm asking a question, what is in there and what is the amount? Atkins/ And it still requires you... Kubby/ ...maybe it's only ten thousand maybe it's not worth it. But maybe there's more in there if we view it in a different way. I'm just asking the question... Norton/ Vanderhoef/... and it would take a vote to put that on. Norton/ Well, but that's what Dean says, that ought to be clear. Vanderhoef/No we're talking about the cultural... Lehman/ Before we say that we would entertain a library bond issue and I think that we all are committed to the library 1 do think we have to determine how we're operate it. (All Talking) Atkins/ Ernie... Lehman/ Bottom line, is how are we gonna pay to operate it... Atkins/ I really believe it's affectionately referred to as the library bond issue but the bottom line is this is a city bond issue for a library. Now I think it's on your initiative as city council to say whether you're gonna put this thing on or not put it on and basically how you're gonna frame the project. Putting it on and having it approved, it's probably almost the easiest piece of it. But you've got to open the doors. Kubby/ There are, in reviewing, kind of our goals and what we've been doing to work towards those goals in the section on page two, on financial health of the city, the second bullet says reevaluate programs and services for cost savings, as kind of a sub-goal that there weren't really any numbers after that to say what we're currently doing to reevaluate and see if there are some costs savings. So what are our current plans in the next year to work on that part of our goal. Atkins/ First of all, by what I did and what you did all of you're basic incidental expenses come out of these in services grew by 1%. We made that decision. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 27 So that's directed to the operating departments. How are you gonna live within the basic almost the same amount of money you had the year before? Secondly, we did our analysis on payroll and you remember the debate we had on that, so we I thought we did two major things in balancing that budget. Kubby/ What did we call that line that you have to use the same amount of materials? There's a line in our budget... Atkins/ Personal services, services and charges come out of these? Commodities... (All talking) Atkins/ ...commodities is the one that is severely limited. Vanderhoef/ We cut, big time. Atkins/ Yes. Kubby/ Thanks. Now, what's the question? (All Talking) Atkins/ The question is what can you agree on? (Laughter) Vanderhoef/ O.K. so when we're talking about operating new spaces that we feel that we can afford to build the capital space, we just don't know how we're going to afford running and operating that. There are two things that come up for me fight away. Number one, is what do we take away from our present general fund services that we provide the community. Whether that be police officers or whether it be planners or engineers or whatever we take away to make this happen. The other place that we go to is looking at the Library Board and their budget and saying what can they do within their own budget that makes this happen for them? Now whether that means decreased materials whether that means a different pattern with the staff whether that means less staff whether that means closing the library on Sundays or whatever, what can they do within their budget to help make this happen if they get the additional space. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 28 Thornberry/Now are those the only two options? Vanderhoef/Those are the two that I see at the present time. (All Talking) Thornberry/They couldn't fund it all through cut backs, through the library themselves, they couldn't do that. Vanderhoef/Then can we afford to have the space? Norton/ Well, we've got to look at other places where we've made some choices, I can go through several and identify some spots you've made basically personnel costs you'd have to trade, you have to give up something and move it over here. You gotta face the same thing with respect to the Senior Center that's lurking. We haven't got there yet. Atkins/ Norton/ (All Talking) Vanderhoef/ There are services all over the city that we need to attend to... Norton/ ...and we need to look at the distribution of our resources in terms of personnel. Whether that's police and fire, information services that's right on down the line. I can think of a number of places where I might make some hard choices. Kubby/ And maybe one way to approach it is to review what were the increases over the 3-year budget? In terms of new employees and new services, and go through that again to say we said yes in this budget but because of this, this is a higher priority, we're willing to review those things and so maybe we need to review that list. Lehman/ There are two glaring examples I think and the first two things that we would obviously, would be suggested right away. Two items that I absolutely I'd have be convinced that we should consider at all. One is the increase in the fire department, we have not had an increase in personnel since 1971 something like that. I think that's something we have to move forward with, that fire station on the east side and the increased personnel. The other one with the increase in police we have harped and harped and harped on council This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 29 about downtown police presence in downtown we've been very concerned about the enforcement particularly in the Broadway neighborhood. I think that I would really really not be very excited about changing our mind on either one of those two. Because of the commitment I think we have. I think you're right, Dee. I think maybe there needs to be a combination of where we can perhaps save a little money and maybe the library can help us a little bit and how they might be able to do a little better. But those two I really would have a problem doing very much with. (All talking) Yeah, takes a lot of (All Talking) Vanderhoef/It's a service that's expected in this community and how to balance the services. Library it's expected in this community. Police and fire and all these other things. The services cost money. And we've got an eight-ten cap on us. Kubby/ But in terms of the police department when some of the six of the officers that we got from the grant that we were expecting to do community policing, that's why they said yes to it. Have been essentially removed to the SCAT team. And so that's all they do and there's a way to manage those people differently so that more officers are doing the functions of the SCAT team on every shift all over the city instead of having them taken out to focus just on that is essentially would be like giving us more police officers back for the community policing that we've been asking for. Lehman/ Yeah, but that's a call I think the police chief has to make. I'm not gonna tell him how to use his men. I think that's a professional decision he has to make. Kubby/ Norton/ Well then you'd say you've got one less man, figure it out. Kubby/ And here are council's priorities... Norton/ That's what we're gonna say to the library you got one less person, figure it out. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 30 O'Donnell/If we're gonna look for operating expenses for the library, I don't think it should be at the expense of public safety, do you? (All Talking) O'Donnell/I'm not going to be in favor of cutting any police or any fire department. Kubby/ But just making the blanket statement that cutting police effects public safety I think is not not for me it's not a correct statement... O'Donnell/Oh I think it's very correct. Kubby/ ...there are other ways to manage and use people and reconfigure our view about policing and just direct RJ to do certain things. O'Donnell/But you've got to have to people to that Karen. Well, I guess I make an argument that... Kubby/ 0 'Donnell/ Kubby/ ...other ways to manage the department so that we don't have a decrease in public safety. Because I'm not against, I'm not for decreasing public safety but I think there are other ways to achieve it. O'Donnell/Well I think the chief should... Norton/ ... when you look at $11 million out of the general fund. I'm talking $7 million for police $4 million for fire that's $11 million out of the thirty that you've got to play with if you wish that's a fair chunk and when you start making any, if you don't, if you exempt that from any cuts then what you do? You start chopping other things to the bone. Where's informational services, didn't exist remember five years ago. Now we've got a web miester fight? / I'm not saying... Norton/ ...well, I mean is that all the burden gonna fall on a smaller sub set if we exempt one. Thornberry/Maybe we can't do this. Norton/ Well... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 31 Norton/ Thornberry/Maybe we can maybe we can't but I also am not really willing at this point to say we can cut fire and we can cut police. I don't want to cut public safety given that they need the people to do the job. Given that, but maybe that's not a given. Let's reiterate, we're not cutting public safety we talking perhaps achieving more efficiency. Lehman/ All fight there's one... (All Talking) Lehman/ Somebody will shoot me for this one but if we charged a quarter for the shuttle bus you'd pay for half the increased expenses of the library. Thornberry/Given that they... Lehman/ Just a quarter fide... Thornberry/Given that they ride the same amount. Lehman/ Well, it's pretty close, but it would get about seventy-five thousand dollars. Vanderhoef/Whenever you increase rates you decrease ridership. Norton/ I hate to throw you another good, I'm not throwing anything out off Roy I'll put that in my list of possibilities... (All talking) Norton/ See this where I was going back to try to get some assistance in the policing area from my earlier proposals for an auxiliary of some kind which we still don't have. I still see that coming up in lots of places. The police presence that you want, is in hands without the full cost of full-time officers. Now I don't think, we may have to look at that possibility to get the kind of presence we want without necessarily expanding the staff in the fundamental ways that we have. O'Do~mell/...think it can be done. Norton/ Well it's done in San Diego. It done in all kinds of places O'Donnell/...with auxiliaries... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 32 Norton/ ... you read in their magazine as I do, you see it all over the place. (All talking) Champion/...tax on beer and wine downtown. / Can't. Champion/Can't? Too bad. Kubby/ Steve, could we get a quick review of the increase in our 3-year budget those like ... Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ / Atkins/ ...budget. From memory we had six additional police officers, one training sergeant, nine firefighters, one maintenance for Parks and Recreation. One and a half for information services, one clerk in recreation at Scanlon that's it. Half for the airport? Half for the air, no quarter for the airport to grow to full-time in three years. I think there should be a listing. Sorry, I didn't bring it with me. (All talking) Champion/You know, could I ask a really point blank question? Kubby/ Please. Champion/If we support the library bond issue, I'm gonna call it that, even though I know it's a city bond issue. Our, I think it's Steve's' responsibility to come up with ideas. (Group Laughter) Champion/And then you'd say to us, these are the options we have and of course I know what the final decision our. I think this is a waste of time, I think it's you're job. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 33 Atkins/ Connie... Lehman/ Connie, I think that part ofthat's true, but I also think we have to tell Steve are we willing to compromise and that's the wrong word, are we willing to compromise our public safety enhancements in fire. He needs to know politically and policy wise where we're willing to make cuts before he can come back. He can come back and say we could we'll just take it all out of planning and all of a sudden or wait a minute... (All Talking) Lehman/ ...he as to have some indication where we're willing to let this happen. Kubby/ I mean what if we said to police and fire because you're getting all of this increase in employees we want you to come up with X amount of dollars in other, if we're not willing to give up the employees are there other places in those two departments? From what is budgeted cause their operating budget is going up too to support those new officers. Atkins/ 1 and 2%. Remember we took all those commodities... Kubby/ Right, but they're getting some stuff and so maybe they have to give up a little more than other departments in these other or at least ask the question. Maybe they come back with a no or maybe they come back with half of what we requested that they come up with, but why shouldn't they have to at least look? Thornberry/What if we assign the police and firemen to the library? Norton/ Well now look, nobody's picking on public safety, we're just looking at all the options. (All Talking) Kubby/ That's where a biggest part of the general fund monies go to, up 33% or so, 30%, so I'm willing to ask that question and I might not get an answer I like out of it, but I'd like to challenge them on that. And get the employees are going to have some idea. O'Donnell/Well, don't we challenge Parks and Rec if we come up... (All Talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 34 O'Donnell/I mean Karen, this has been a police issue with you from day one. Thornberry/Well you know, the Parks and Rec, Mike, they don't have enough people... O 'Donnell/ Thornberry/Whether we've told them here's all your land and take care of it and gees we don't give um any people to do it. O'Donnell/And we've increased it substantially. Thornberry/Yeah, I don't know if we can cut Parks and Rec I mean... (All Talking) Kubby/ Norton/ Atkins/ (All Talking) Vanderhoef/ Because it's the rational part of my logic is that it is such a high percent of our general fund and that is what is so cramped. I'm not saying I will take I want to do it, I'm saying I want to hear what they can propose or what Steve can propose I'm open to that. And there's, it's not based on any kind of strange idea, it's a ration place to look because it's such big percentage of where we need to find the money. These are not huge numbers Steve, but let's look at some other possibilities. I certainly think we need to take a look at the reserve. See ifthere's anything we can squeeze out of there that might help. You can squeeze the reserves as many as you want... That's ongoing... Norton/ I understand, but we've got... (All talking) Atkins/ Once you spend from the reserve it's gone unless you pay yourself back, and your policies have been in the past. We'll use it, for example, we bought the peninsula property, but your commitment was we're paying ourself back. Norton/ You were putting less in there at some point, we just put something back in from reserve didn't we a few years ago? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 35 Norton/ Lehman/ Can't use reserves for ongoing expenses... (All talking) We had a different, we were putting a some away not to put that much away every time. Not that you put it in and took it out... Atkins/ ...oh we changed for example... Norton/ ...allocation... Atkins/ ...we financed the library's computer by way of debt as opposed to requiring them to set aside the cash and that worked O.K. They're O.K. with that. Norton/ There were certain ways, I don't know how much of the total we're looking at but if it can be gotten that way I don't know. Vanderhoef/ The pay back is the difficult... Atkins/ Pay back is the killer. Yeah. There's double then the next time to your ongoing expenses. Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Lehman/ Would it be fair to say that the community events subsidy of a $150,000 a year is one thing that we can kind of scratch fight now? Atkins/ Well, if you're going to do away with the community events center. Lehman/ Well, the Library Board has indicated... Atkins/ ...you asking an opinion? Lehman/ Yeah. Arkins/ All right. I think you have a downtown policy that says you're going to create destination points. If you're going to create distention points when I was sort of playing out a scenario in my mind I added an auditorium to the library. (All Talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 36 Norton/ O.K. as a proponent of the library, I don't think we have can not keep crowding into room A. Thomberry/How the world could afford an auditorium downtown that's used... Norton/ Thornberry/...with no increase in parking? Norton/ ... some kind of share agreement. Champion/It will be used daily if you have one. (All talking) Norton/ We've got parking all the time. Kubby/ ...but that increases... (All Talking) Champion/... it's impossible to get auditorium space in Iowa City. (All talking) Kubby/ ...but that's an increase operating expense... (All Talking) Norton/ I'm still looking at that... Lehman/ Singerman/ Lehman/ Singerman/ All right, does, let me ask you this, does the Library Board have inclination to have meeting space included in their proposal? What was the question? Do you have any inclination to have meeting room or ah public space for an auditorium or whatever in the proposal? Do you think that might be something you might be talking about? In addition to just plain... I can say that the proposals we've looked at thus far had an increase in the meeting space, such, the type of meeting space that we already have. Because that's a community service that we do fulfill that we think is very This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 37 important. We have not talked about an auditorium as an adjunct to the library. So the board hasn't taken a position on it, I do think, as Connie said, it would used. Personally, I believe. I did find in the campaign it was very difficult for people to kind of see that. Kubby/ I think the political... Vanderhoef/I have a question, when you say you think it's an important community service to have meeting room spaces. That seems to me another service but can you tell me how that connects to library operation and your mission within a library? Singerman/Yes, the mission of the library is to serve in part as a community center and a community gathering place and if you go to the library you see people there for all sons of purposes including meeting each other and meeting in rooms on business of various kinds. That is part of our mission. It's actually in the mission statement. Can you quote mission statement? (Laughter) Singerman/That's a really fundamental part of the library's mission is to serve as the community center. Norton/ Maybe even larger in the future in some ways than it may have been in the past, that is as library functions change. Singerman/Now we also have the ICN Room, which allows us to connect to communities across the state. Kubby/ It's a way that the community shares information. Singerman/ Absolutely, most of the room, if I remember correctly, mostly the rooms are used by non-profit organizations, public programs of various kinds sponsored by the library and jointly sponsored. Thornberry/So you think that the meeting rooms should be... Singerman/Oh, absolutely. Thornberry/There's another, I mean I don't know if this is, you might want that, but can you afford it? (All Talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 38 Thornberry/One of your proposals Dee, was have the library help with the financing of it, so is there a part of that also. But I was thinking it may not be totally inappropriate to think of meeting rooms in the under the Parks and Recreation department. Well, where? We've got a big room that they've got pool tables and ping pong tables and stuff we could make rooms in other building perhaps. Kubby/ But that's just operating expenses somewhere else. Thornberry/That's correct, but it's already an existing building. You're not having to build a new building to get it. I'm just looking at I'm trying to brain storm here to see if there's anything else we could do? Vanderhoef/And I appreciate that because I've had the same kinds of thoughts, because I recognize space needs within the confines of the building that we presently have. And for me library services, ah community space is something that everyone treasures. However, if I weigh it against the need for space for my children's library and for shelving and that area, I could give up a community room to add that space into what I see as a higher level of need for a library. Lehman/ Jesse, go ahead. Singerman/ Well, I just want to say again, it is a fundamental purpose of the library to serve as a community center. And that those meeting rooms are very valuable to us in many ways. We also offer variety of services in terms of the taping and library chinreel and the ability to take those programs out to the community many many times because of the facilities that are fight there. Also, the library staff serves an important function in the programming of many of the things that happen in those rooms and I personally would hate to see you ask us to give that up. I don't think the board, that would be a very difficult thing. Vanderhoef/It would be difficult for all of us. I mean it isn't a first choice to do it, but if we're brain storming on ways that we can make it happen or have things happen for us and still afford them, that's one possibility. (All talking) Champion/You have to stop and think too, what makes our library a destination point? What makes it a focal point in the community? It isn't just books. Vanderhoef/No I agree, it's a prioritization of space needs... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 39 Champion/It's much more than books and if you start taking away the things that make our library special you won't even need it. Thornberry/Well what do they need the addition for? Is it more meeting rooms or is it more book space... (All talking) Thornberry/...it's both. Lehman/ You know, if you remember back in the early eighties, the library was too expensive and so we took something out of it so we could afford it and what we took out it was the possibility to make it bigger. Norton/ Right. Letunan/ Now you know we're talking about something that gonna be here for a long long time. I think we need to think very very carefully before we say that we don't feel that community meeting rooms are important. Thornberry/No. I don't think any body's saying that... Vanderhoef/No, that's not what I'm saying at all... Thornberry/I'm just say is there another space for that. I know these meeting rooms here are used. Lehman/ Thornberry/...juggling people all the over the place to try, they're very important, but is it more important to have meeting rooms than to have book-related library that you would think of a library. You don't go to a library thinking, gees I'm gonna find a space to have a meeting. I go to a library... (All Talking - Laughter) Thornberry/...you do in this community. In a lot of communities you go to the library to find books, tapes all of the things that a library has. Norton/ That's what people need. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 40 Singerman/One other point, there are I think 900 meetings a year in the library meeting room. Thornberry/And Jess, you would have more meetings. Singerman/Absolutely, there's an untapped... Thornberry/...plus you would have meeting somewhere else then you would go from zero to 900, if you have the meeting rooms and for example, the ah community... Norton/ Singerman/One consideration about that is the staff that you need to maintain the meeting rooms and schedule them and set them up and break them down and so on. Right now the library staff is doing double duty there. They're able to do that and answer information questions and work on the AV desk and all that sort of thing. So you will increase operating costs in some other area to duplicate that function. Thornberry/How many people does it need do you need to operate ah 3 meeting rooms for example? How many people? (All Talking) Singerman/We have coverage in terms of the scheduling and so on is every hour we're open is one or two people. Lehman/ You know, it seems to me that we don't really know what we're talking about yet. We don't have a proposal so we don't know what we're talking about as far as space needs and whatever until we know what is going to be proposed, I don't think we know what it's gonna cost to operate it. Thornberry/We've got money needs here. Kubby/ One of the traps I feel like we're getting in is that we're funding things kind of what we're thinking of as a first come first serve basis. You know that the Rec department came to us you know explaining a real need in the community for gym and so that was funded in the operating expenses are there so that it's solid. The library really has been waiting for this for ten years and been actively working on it for at least five and it feels like because of the process, cause we made certain rules of the game for them, that weren't really their first choice, that now they're kind of in the back of the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 41 line and that I'm open to looking at previous decisions and saying you have to adjust what you're doing. And so that's the kind of direction that we could give Steve. To say ask our safety personnel for $80,000 from their budget without decreasing the kind of services, is it possible? Ask the new Scanlon gymnasium what can you do to raise $10,000 of operating expenses a year that can be shifted to the library. I'm willing to ask them that question. So there's two ideas I'd like to hear what are other areas... Norton/ Lehman/ Nobody said anything about charging for the shuttle bus. / You did Thornberry/...we're talking we need $330,000 a year or do we need a hundred and eighty? Kubby/ We need, I well, that's a decision to make I would say a hundred and eighty. Thornberry/That's without the community events center? Champion/ Kubby/ ... or any components of it. Champion/ What I would like to see, and maybe we'll discuss this with the library people, is when they talk about how there gonna add to library, that they fear the future of Iowa City in mind, it's obvious to me that we're not going to get a community events or cultural center from the public right now. But, in the future, it's very possible that we will want it and will need it and that it seems ideal to me, that it's connected somehow with the library. So I hope they'll kind of keep those kind considerations in mind that twenty years from now. Kubby/ In terms of the structure of the building? Champion/ In the structure of the building, this might be a need for Iowa City wants and it should ideally go here. But I'm gonna support this and I'm gonna find the money somewhere to carry on that... (All talking) Kubby/ Are you willing to do the November, I mean that was one of things on the list? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 42 Champion/I think that's up to the Library Board. I think they've got a lot of public education to do. I think it's gonna take them a long time to let people, before people understand that it's not the same proposition that was on the sales tax... Kubby/ But you're willing to have them guide us, I mean it's our decision. Champion/Oh sure. Kubby/ And they've already come to us saying they want November. Champion/Yeah, and I think that's a mistake on their part. I do too. Lehman/ Champion/ Norton/ Atkins/ (All talking) I want to be sure that we're understanding when the Library Board meets and tries to come up with some more specific recommendations and presumably the events center as such is no longer a component. But, are anything else in there, what happens with television, the community issues issues, is that going to be dispersed as it is now? Or are we trying to consolidate that where are we, how does that effect? Cable TV? Ifthere's no space obviously... Thornberry/Now is it a given that there is not community events center or an auditorium or something like that? Norton/ Well, I don't know, not given, but I say that those explicit components were out there some of the remaining rooms may be close to that but I think that's outta there, I thought. Thornberry/I don't done, I heard that Norton/ Thornberry/... auditorium was a Norton/ ...I would like to see it... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 43 Thornberry/...was needed and wanted, I... Champion/It is. Thornberry/Is it part of the program or not? (All Talking) Thornberry/I mean are we putting the cart before the horse? Hearse (All Talking) Thornberry/Steve, are we willing to finance the money before we know what is to finance? Norton/ No they're gonna tell us... Kubby/ ... the Library Board has already said that the culture center is off the table from their perspective. And so my assumptions about that are all components of that, to say it differently, no components of the community events center would be incorporated into anything that they bring to us about the library and I think that politically it would be a big mistake for us to add any of those components into the library or into other services at this time. People gave us a clear message from many perspectives about that, I think if this body doesn't listen to that we're not not... Lehman/ I don't think we got a clear message at all I think it was so muddied that we'd have no idea of the message that we got. Norton/ Yeah, I think it would be a mistake to go too far in that direction... (All talking) Norton/ ...but we're talking library, meeting rooms and I don't about the size they want to recommend that's up to them. Thornberry/I know, but if it gets to the point, if they're talking library expansion to include more meeting rooms the size of an auditorium Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 44 Thornberry/...but it's not a community events center but it's the size of one I think we need to wait to see what they're proposal before we can... Kubby/ I guess, I'm under the understand, please tell me if I'm wrong, that any proposal that comes to us is not gonna be brand new, it's something we've already talked about. But they don't want to redesign stuff, they've had plans they're ready go on with the plans... Thornberry/I hope you're right but ... Kubby/ ...that has additional library meeting rooms in it that already have dimensions in the plans... Thornberry/That means that what that plan, eliminating the community events center, you're gonna have a hole underneath, I mean there's nothing there and it was a community events center what is there, anything? Singerman/ I'd say with the components of the library expansion you have heard many many times. We have a building plan for the proposal that we had going west. We also looked at in not very much depth, a stand-alone library on 64- 1 a. I mean these things can be flushed out fairly quickly. We had no intention of including an auditorium. And how the building would be configured on 64-1a, I mean it's not that big a lot. (All Talking) Kubby/ And I guess when I say that you don't want to redesign it's that you already know how much space for what purposes you need... Singerman/Yes (All Talking) Singerman/...about the components and the amount of space that will be dedicated to... Lehman/ All right, do you realistically believe that you can put together a proposal to be on the ballot in November, that will be put together comprehensively well enough to educate the public to have a good chance of passing it. You're looking at, you just mentioned the westerly proposal that was a proposal, the last one, which included you know a walk or pass over using the present library and a new facility or a stand alone on 64-1 a. Now you've got a number of different options, do you really believe that there's time to put something together, legitimately put in on the ballot in November? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 45 Singerman/I believe so. If you work with us. Vanderhoef/Do we think that we have found the money to operate a new space for them if they go to this work? So far... / Not yet. Vanderhoef/...we haven't heard anything that I can hang my hat on that says, here's the money operate it. So I'm real reluctant much as I would like a new library and new auditorium space and meeting rooms, I think those are wonderful things to have, I wish we could have it all, however I'm still am looking at my eight-ten budget and where... (All Talking) Kubby/ The question gets thrown back to you, where are you willing to look for that money? I've heard three ideas. O.K. Of where to get money. We need to hear from other people. If the answer for is I'm not willing to look at anything or I'm not willing to cut any of our other things then there's our answer. But, we need to get guidance to our manager to give us specifics. What areas of services are we willing to either reduce their operating costs and give them conditions or to cut services. deProsse/ May I ask just one question? If the bond issue pasted in November... It's gonna have to be at the mic. DeProsse/ I just have a question for my own information my name is Carol DeProsse. If the bond referendum pasted in November, when would the operating expenses need to be available for the library? What fiscal year are you looking to in coming up with the operating expenses. Lehman/ 2002. DeProsse/2002? Lehman/ One or two. DeProsse/So you're not looking in next years budget for the years, you're looking at sometime down the road. Atkins/ Could you adopt a three year budget folks? You've already put in motion... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 46 Vanderhoef/We've already put that stuff into the budget for three years. Thornberry/But it's assured that it will happen. It's not down the road forget about it, it's down the road planned for. Arkins/ Appropriate annually, you plan for three years. You have in motion directed us to put in motion certain operational increases changes whatever, it's part of the plan. Now you'd have to change the plan. Norton/ Well there is no point in not then sitting down each of we can't do it politely, and start figuring out where we are going to try to meet these operational increases. If we by some presumably some reallocations or cuts or whatever it takes. Because if everything is sacrosanct as it presently exits then we're no where. Lehman/ What's sacrosanct? Atkins/ Sacred. Lehman/ Oh thank you. (All talking - Laughter) Kubby/ But we need to hear, Steve needs to hear from us where we're willing to look. And that's our task for today. He can't come back to us with anything. Thornberry/ Kubby/ so if you have a list... (All Talking) Kubby/ ...even though there we don't necessarily have a four votes for any of the three ideas out there, it's the only three that anyone's willing to say out loud. So can we write um up so we can just start a brain storm list? Then we can go back and if there are four votes for some and not for others that will be guidance for Steve. Norton/ I think true, but I'm gonna put information services on there and we're I'm gonna find a little leeway there. Sorry folks, but that would be a place I'd find some leeway. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 47 Atkins/ Thornberry/What's there general budget down there? Norton/ I'd have to look. Atkins/ Well, before you look at it the total in general fund and we distribute that through the organizations about $30,000 a year, for the positions you approved. So we've gotten rid of them... Thornberry/If we get a fire station, we're gonna have to man it. You can't have a fire station without people in there. Atkins/ Thornberry/...and I don't think you know extra fireman just around just and we can't, like Emie said, we haven't increased that department for so many years, that... Norton/ Didn't we put a training sergeant in it? Kubby/ I don't how much in our 3-year budget we earmarked for operations at that facility, but maybe we say we're now only give you 80% or whatever the number, I just wanted to put that out of my head, 80% of what we were going to give you for operations. Tell us how you can operate that building and operate with staff, that fire station with that much less money? Thornberry/What if they come back and say we can't? (All Talking) Thornberry/Monday through Friday. Kubby/ No, but maybe it's designed differently maybe the space is a little smaller than they ideally want. Maybe we don't put the community component that we were talking about into it cause that's money and that's operations that lights that people or something. Thomberry/But we didn't even give them the training officer that they wanted for the fire department. We... (All Talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 48 Thornberry/Or what didn't we give them that they requested? Atkins/ The fire marshal. Thomberry/The fire marshal, yeah. Lehman/ Let make a suggestion. You know I think that really there seems to be obviously be interest in doing moving forward with the library bond issue. Obviously, we've got to find the money somehow to do it. I'm not at all sure that the best proposal isn't for us to tell Steve. If you had to prioritize personally, this is your show, you've gotta make it work. If we went to you and said, look we really feel that we need a $100,000 a year to operate this new library, in the total scheme of things how would you recommend to us? I think we need to look at that and then say, Steve yeah this is something we can live or no this isn't something we can live with. I think we have to be able to look at a proposal that... (All talking) Lehman/ ...we can live with before we say that we're gonna go ahead and do this. I mean I think it has to be something that we're comfortable with. Kubby/ I guess I disagree a little bit because it's our show. We are the policy makers and we have to give him signs about what areas. I'm not saying what line or what person or what light goes out, I'm talking about what areas of city services are we willing to look at for cuts? Champion/ Lehman/ ...I would let him make that, we can tell him when he comes back that we like you're plan or we don't. I mean that's our call. Champion/Right. Champion/I need to comment on that, folks. (All Talking) Atkins/ I'll give you options. But I need to know what the sacred cows are. I haven't, you're all over the lot on the sacred cows. Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 49 Atkins/ Secondly, I want you to understand the policy position you're flaming. You're saying, other departments will be reduced to the benefit of the library. (All talking) Atkins/ That's what you're saying, that's you're policy position. Don't forget Senior Center has not even been discussed yet today. Kubby/ That's right, well we need to... Atkins/ So a hundred and fifty thousand is maybe can take care of one issue but not the next one. I need your guidance. Will you accept layoffs? Lehman/ The other thing I think we have to be ready to if we do not like if we do not like what you come with I mean we have to be in a position where we say we're gonna have to, maybe this bond issue can't go in November, maybe it has to wait until we do find it. (All talking) Norton/ Well, that why I say it's hard to commit to November without finding out how we're going to do it. (All talking) Vanderhoef/It's better for us to come with I think than asking staff to do it because we all have our own... Thornberry/That's just another brain and he's more familiar with the city... (All Talking) Atkins/ I'll do whatever you ask of me to do you know that. But I need to have some guidance because you're gonna send reverberations through the organization. O'Donnell/A very important question, will people accept layoffs? Atkins/ Because I've got to go to payroll. You're only talking library now, you've got to add Senior you've got add some other things on top of that. If you're willing to accept the layoffs, because you can gain all the efficiencies you want, but in gaining the efficiencies do you reduce payroll? If you do reduce payroll, people are out of work. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 50 Thornberry/But you're not doing it Steve. All you're doing is giving your recommendation. We can all do our own recommendation and Dee Norton apparently you're saying you can live with layoffs. Norton/ I can... Thornberry/... in certain departments. Norton/ ...presumably it would have to be attrition or something else... Thornberry/ Kubby/ There's another way to define layoff. We can say current employees and services that they are providing, no. But new employees that are not hired yet, that are within that 3-year budget are fair game. Cause that's not a layoff... (All talking) Kubby/ ...and that's where we kind of placed ourselves and Steve in this very uncomfortable position by not having a contingency plan, in event of the sales tax not passing in budget ... (All talking) Thornberry/...your recommendation again is just a recommendation and we're gonna tear it apart too... Atkins/ ...you've got to be candid with me, candid with yourself. You're telling me don't build the fire station. That's your big hit in the budget. (All talking) Champion/...we're not telling you that... Atkins/ Well, that's what I'm heating because those are people that are not hired yet. They do not intend to be hired until next year... Thornberry/...then don't take them out of your proposal. Vanderhoef/All right. So, then tell him that that's the sacred cow that we are not willing to do it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 51 O 'Donnell/ Vanderhoef/ ...I'm not willing to take the fire station out... Norton/ ...it might get slid a year or too... Champion/ Vanderhoef/ ...that doesn't help. No... Norton/ ...you can't thin it out because they got to have nine. Everything is locked in stone here. There's got to be some ways... (All talking) Champion/...I have a .... (End Tape 99-54 S2) Tape 99-55 S1 Champion/ (Inaudible) ...fire employees I don't see that many of them. I am willing to look at the police as far attrition goes because there might be a way for the police department, I mean, we've given them a lot of help in the past five years I mean a lot of help and that is a major part of the budget I mean a major part of the budget, the fire department doesn't have support when you think about it. Champion/...to cover them, so maybe there's some way the police department through attrition could do with two less police officers and still the cover the community the same way they're covering it now because it's a possibility, I think that maybe the chief could be asked to come up with that. Kubby/ And we're at good timing with our police department to use that strategy? (All talking) Vanderhoef/This is why I voted for the addition of the police officers in that 3-year budget and accepting the grant knowing that if we were so tight in our general fund when we had to start taking over those salaries because that's coming out on us. We did the grant for three years and then we have to pick up those salaries, so that will just be an attrition kind of thing if we have to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 52 do that. So that is something I have already in my mind put out there as my fall back position if my general fund is too tight. Atkins/ We've already build in a component of the attrition. We budget 95% of payroll. Don't forget that. We've already done that. Vanderhoef/Absolutely. (All talking) Atkins/ I understand that and that is longer term decision Connie, that's correct, but we built attrition into the budget. Lehman/ You know there's one other thing that I don't really think we've thought of. It isn't as if we don't have a library. I think we have to look at the relative benefits of the expanded library sooner rather then later and what it does to the rest of the city budget. I think we all agree we'd love to have a new library and expanded library but maybe such a thing that it has to go for a year or so longer than we thought because we're looking at relative benefits. It isn't as we don't have a library. Kubby/ But why can't something else wait? The library has been waiting actively for five years or more. (All talking) Kubby/ ...I've already put out a bunch of ideas... (All talking) Thornberry/That's what I say, what else would you put back if you were if it were... Kubby/ I'm saying I'm not sure right now, but why does it have the library has already been waiting and the community is cramped. It's not like I want the Library Board to what it wanted it's because the community is want and needing it's services. / I understand... O'Donnell/I think we need local option sales tax. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 53 Norton/ Yeah fight, of course. (All talking) O'Donnell/...are we saying we're the new advocates for higher property taxes? I'm not saying that... Lehman/ What do you propose... ? Kubby/ For whatever reason the people have spoken and that's not enough? O'Donnell/...and that's a question. Where they speaking against the tax or against the library? Lehman/ No, we don't know that .... (All talking) Lehman/ What's our what's our plan of action? (All talking) Norton/ ...well I think we have to go back and look through the budget individually and try to get together some guidance for Steve, as hard that may be. I want to be careful that that doesn't come out as a negative for the library in the sense that they're the bad guys that forced cuts for the rest of the city, which is a very negative way to go into a bond issue. So I'm kind of in a bind they're trying to avoid that connection but it seems to me the reality of finding some operating expenses. I'm willing to look a variety of places and try to be a delicate as possible. Seems to me this is what the community if the conununity wants a library, they may have to give up some other things. Champion/ O.K. now I think the... (Inaudible) after to that is I remember that when I was on the council that this came out of operation... (Inaudible) the library that was one of the reasons they didn't put it on the ballot at that point, is that true? (All talking) Champion/ ...but we've added a heck of a lot of people to this employee list since that time when you all decided that you couldn't possibly come up with ... (Inaudible) for the library... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 54 Norton/ Kubby/ And actually Steve, when said that, you know, using 95% ofpayroll builds attrition, that's not how it was explained to us. That it's not about, it's about turnover .... (All talking) Kubby/ Norton/ (All talking) Atkins/ Norton/ .... but that we're always replacing people, that's the policy and for a policy of specifically saying, for example, in the police department as Connie suggested that we're not gonna replace three that' s different than the... If you choose not to replace an employee something won't get done. You have to tell yourself that. We will not do this anymore. We understand that but right now the expansion in those categories is to try to do more and that's the... Thornberry/...and you were a proponent of that too. Norton/ I was willing to try to add them but... Thornberry/To try to get downtown police... Norton/ ...try to get it done by some other mechanism but I'm not getting anywhere with that. Thornberry/That's true. O'Donnell/I think the perception out there of cutting back on public safety to fund operating expenses for the library would that enhance the chances of... (All talking) Thomberry/Well, I don't know where we are. Are just spinning our wheels right now or what? Lehman/ Yeah we are. But, Dee... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 55 (All talking) Lehman/ ...but Dee said something that I think is pretty critical and we really don't want if this is perceived as the library taking a big hit because we're going to cut things on the part of the city that's a big negative thing and we don't need that. We don't need that at all if we expect to be able to pass a bond issue. (All talking) You've got to be delicate. Thornberry/But if it's a fact. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Then you're putting whipped cream on something that... (All talking - Laughing) Norto~/ You can say the same thing. Is the Senior Center the rec department leaving... Vanderhoef/The Rec department waited and in the meantime the neighborhood open space plan was a adopted and we now have the ordinance for land money in lieu of land and all of that and stuff. So, our parks have increased and we have not increased so they have waited at least six or seven years to get their employee as their park ground increased. They waited for the gymnasium to come along, they raised money for that gymnasium to come along and now we need to fund it. When we put that whole project together, we made the commitment to fund that space knowing full well it would take extra people and now that's gonna come on line this year. O'Donnell/I'll ask once more is there are there any other options out there other than other than cutting what we've got now? Are there any other options? Kubby/ We got as bare-boned as we could without going down as far as 95%. We spent, we added all... (All talking) O'Donnell/But that's, there's no other place to get any money... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 56 Atkins/ The eight-ten is the eight-ten is the eight-ten. O'Donnell/What are we spending on trails in the next three years? Atkins/ That's capital. (All talking) Lehman/ It would seem to me what we're gonna have to do Steve is for you to give it you're best shot. We're gonna have to come back... Vanderhoef/You're not gonna guidance from this group... (All talking) Lehman/ No, no I think you are when he bring um back. Kubby/ When he brings them back but that not what he here to do... (All talking) Kubby/ ...our purpose for today was to give him guidance about where to cut and we're not doing that. (All talking) O'Donnell/I don't believe that it's our job to tell the City Manager where on the table to cut, I think that's his job... Atkins/ Folks I don't want to argue with you. The bottom line is we're gonna send a message to this organization. And this organization is that something is going to go in order to support an expanded library and new service. Got to accept that. Two, we already cut our operational expenses at least to less than inflation. Now I'll ask you again, is layoff out of the question? If I can't go to payroll, then we're not, we're gonna nickel dime it and all you'll need is a spurt of inflation some year instead of the 3% economy you've got an 8 or 9% economy and we're going to be in trouble. Kubby/ I'm willing to cut from our 3-year budget that we just passed. And I would not call that layoffs I would call that... Atkins/ ... I understand what you're saying... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 57 (All talking) O'Donnell/I'm willing to see what Steve proposes and I think... (All talking) Atkins/ If you're going to cut those employees and there are no more, you've just said there's no fire station folks, you've gotta live that. That's the bottom line... (All talking) Vanderhoef/...hire those we plan to this not a layoff this not hiring... (All talking) O'Donnell/I understand it's not a layoff but what he's saying is there's no eastside fire station. (All talking) Kubby/ ...no... Atkins/ Yes, that's what you're saying. Kubby/ ...there are more employees than that that were added, although all of them are not general fund, which I understand from that list and so if there are pans of those that are sacred cow then we need to tell him that so he doesn't bring us something that won't work... O'Donnell/ (All talking) Thornberry/I'll say fire and police for me are sacred cows, but that's just one vote. (All talking) Kubby/ Maybe we should split those up. Cause it may be, it may make a difference... Champion/...if fire department is a sacred cow and police department is not .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 58 Norton/ Well, I think... Kubby/ I'm willing to look at both. O'Donnell/It's going to be real slim. Arkins/ Pickins are slim folks. (All talking) Norton/ We still got to look at the Senior Center thing... Vanderhoef/ Thornberry/Do you want to police on half time, I don't think so. (Laughing) Kubby/ We'll concede like 3A cops? I don't think so. You know there's not many areas that we can in and cut I mean I know the attorney's office has got way to much staff but... ...but if you're not willing to cut anything then you're saying no to any new anything... (All talking) Kubby/ O.K.? That we should just say that if what people want. Thornberry/I'm not really willing to cut many places because I think they are cut ... (All talking) Thornberry/...as they are and I don't think they can do the job that they're doing with that fewer people. Champion/Do you know, the thing that I'll say about city programs or programs ... (All talking) Champion/...is that we get something and we hold onto it forever. Maybe it's time that we don't hold on to somethings, maybe we're doing things, twenty years ago that we don't even have a need in the community for. Cause it's very hard to give up programs or something that you're doing because it's somebody's job is going to be affected .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 59 What have you got in mind? Champion/Well I don't know, but... Norton/ ...just went over the budget though with that in mind... (All talking) Champion/...but I mean don't, we never want to cut anything. O'Donnell/It's kind of like the meeting rooms in the library. Champion/ ...it's just because you have something shouldn't mean it should always stay there. I mean we're making a decision here with the library, the Senior Center and it's going to affect the community 50 years from now. Not some of the decisions we're already made affect us now, but maybe not in 50 years. So, I think, when we look at this we can take it much more seriously about a major decision that we're making for the Senior Center and the library, I think they are major decisions. O'Donnell/What do we do? What are we willing to give up I think that's the bottom line? (All talking) Vanderhoef/... major decision for me in this budget year when we put together our 3-year plan, I thought we did go major decisions that had been put on the back burner for years and those were the police and fire. Then we knew we had already committed in previous budgets for Parks and Recreation and we know that we've got this informations service thing looming for us and whether we can put it off another year. But the but the major decisions that I made at budget time were the ones that I felt were the ones that I felt we had to make. Now, I agree that a lot of people like what I call warm fuzzies. And we love um, we all do we just are out there asking for the library and cultural and all these other things, however, we've got to take care of the basic services that cities were originally designed for, which is the health, safety and welfare... (All talking) Norton/ A lot of people would argue ... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 60 Vanderhoef/...but I made that decision at budget time that this is the way I ready to go at this point in time and I wanted the sales tax, it didn't work out and now I guess I'm willing to wait until I see that the rollback isn't going to slam bang us another time in here which is always looming out there... (All talking) Vanderhoef/...well in the next three years that what I'm seeing is this problem of whether they get to state tax split from agriculture and whether you know there are a lot of thing out there but right now I do not see the dollars in our general fund to do addition... (All talking) Kubby/ ...to be clear you're at the place where you're not willing to make cuts... Vanderhoef/I'm not willing to layoff. I can make some cuts but I don't see where there's enough cuts that would come on an annual basis to fund new employees. Kubby/ Right, but when you say layoffs I'm unclear about what you mean, because it seems we're scheduling to hire and we did not hire... Vanderhoef/..I understand that... Kubby/ I was unclear... Vanderhoef/O.K. and I'm clear that when I did my budget that I was going to hire those people because I'm committed to the fire station and that if my professional tells me that to run that fire station we have to have that many employees, I will fund for those employees and that fire station. We're growing and we 're... Norton/ (All talking - Laughter) Lehman/ Hold it, hold it Connies' got an idea. Champion/O.K., one thing we talked about last night is the business with taxes on condominiums. Is that gonna be new... Lehman/ No that's money we're gonna be loosing... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 61 Champion/We're loosing it? Lehman/ We already have, we're loosing ... (All talking) Kubby/ We're gonna gain it back... Champion/We're gonna gain it back... Lehman/ We have never lost it yet, we're just loosing it now... Kubby/ Oh fight especially what little... (All talking) Thornberry/If it wasn't passed we would be loosing that much, we haven't lost it yet... O'Donnell/No new money there. (Laughter) Atkins/ (All talking) Atkins/ ...jump up Karen... (All talking) (Gavel) Lehman/ Kubby/ Atkins/ Connie, there's no new money there. O.K., Karen, hold it. ...what if we went to our Fire Chief and said we really want a new fire station and we want it as staffed as appropriately. Is it possible with some flexible way of working with employees to crew that staff that fire department with 7 or 8 people verses nine? I mean if that challenges... (All talking) We've been through that yeah we've been through that nine was a minimum Andy asked for twelve... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 62 Atkins/ ... we asked him to move his existing people around and he understood that and the whole fire station No.4 is based upon the premise that this is the minimal level of staffing. It's gonna cost him a few bucks probably in overtime to do some coverage, that's a 3 person crew. Remember now OSHA kicks in, Occupational Safety Health Administration, number of people on the scene all rule beyond our control. Is that O.K., Andy? (All talking) Atkins/ Andy's nodding his head yes, so... Lehman/ So where are? Kubby/ We're willing to look at all the employees... Norton/ I'm looking at the out years, I'm looking at the out years that it takes... O'Donnell/Still the employees that we determine during the budget time Kubby/ Why is it different now? O'Donnell/Can we go back to the library and see if they can cut on this? I think that's a given. But Dee you said ... Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/ ...you're willing to look at the... (All talking) Norton/ ...look at the 3-year budget plan, is that's the time flame we're, see where I can make or live with any adjustments and that's what we're facing and certainly not just with the library but the Senior Center and storm water coming along we're going to have to fare back people are not wanting their taxes to go up and they're not wanting even the property tax... (All talking) Thornberry/So what do we do? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 63 Norton/ Well, if staff then they say look for that money you could have build services you're used to getting... Lehman/ But seems to me at this point it would be fair to say that we probably will look and see what we can find to come with what it takes for the library... (All talking) Norton/ ...do that, I think we each should go over the budget and say here is a possibility. Each of us should be responsible... Thornberry/...I understand but I don't know each department that well. To go into the legal department down there and look at each person and say um maybe you're only needed half time and... (All talking) Thornberry/... say gees planner maybe you know you took a longer... Norton/ That is where Steve and his staff have to decide... Thornberry/ Norton/ ...identify the marriage and I think try to get something out of here... O'Donnell/ Thornberry/...we need to look at each department I don't think I'm capable of looking at every department of the city and saying you can do without this... Norton/ ...I said I'm telling people take a look here this is the place I think we can get something... (All talking) Lehman/ Shuttle bus is my suggestion... O'Donnell/...find out if we're willing to cut on the fire station. Cut the employees. Do we feel that we don't need a new fire station and the eight fireman out there? (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 64 Thornberry/...but I that think the City Manager can give us a little bit of guidance and say folks, if you want if you want this many fireman, if you want information services run this way if you want, I can't find the money to do it. Atkins/ And I would pose a different question to you Dean. Not, do you want this number of fire fighters do you want fire station for 24 hours a day 7days a week, staffed with a fire crew? You say yes, then it's 9 people. That conversation ends right there. Thornberry/But we haven't said yes. Atkins/ Well, I'm just saying I'm posing a different question to you... Thornberry/...well can you pose to us, those questions in a... Atkins/ ...absolutely, but I want you understand we've gone through many of the things Andy recommends a fire station. O.K. Andy, what's it going to take to open it in a traditional sense 24 hours a day 7 days a week with a crew able to respond federal guidelines, state guidelines... (All talking) Atkins/ That's a capital project. Kubby/ How is that community space staffed? How is it maintained how is it...? Atkins/ Not to be staffed, it's not gonna be staffed (All talking) Atkins/ The only people in that fire station are fire fighters, period. Norton/ But you see that what the point of that whole fire station is after all is development in that general area of Captain Irish and so forth, right? And of course the increased resources to run that won't come, in other words you're talking here about building that station before those additional tax returns come in right? You're out in front. Thornberry/Yeah, I thought that was a good idea. Norton/ I understand it's a good idea, but I'm just saying now but if you end that mix you'd bring in that let's say more industry or something in that area, that what we gonna have to work on. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 65 (All talking) Norton/ ...you guys aren't going to a luncheon tomorrow are ya? (All talking) Atkins/ ...remember growing the economy is a means by which you can't there are no guarantees, that's number 1. And secondly, the state has begun a very deliberate process of exempting the taxes on industry. Remember machinery and equipment, 3.7% of our total tax base, gone. $700,000 bucks, gone. Stroke of the pen. Now you can have a lot of industry but only the land and the shell of the building is taxable. Thornberry/...but the people that come in to work those businesses that also help the economy. Atkins/ How do they do, you don't get an income tax you don't a sales tax. You don't any money from them. Kubby/ And you have to provide them a lot of services. Thornberry/They built, they buy houses. Atkins/ Houses don't generate... Kubby/ ...they don't pay for... Atkins/ Then the state rolls back the value of the house. Kubby/ Lehman/ Well residential... Kubby/ But that's not... Lehman/ All right, all fight... (All talking) Vanderhoef/...the other place you can get, we talk about whether we want 24 hour coverage in the new fire station. I think our expectation in the neighbor in the city is for 24 hour police coverage, 24 hour fire coverage. All fight now, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 66 do we want to cut back on hours at city hall? Do we want to cut back hours at the Rec Center? Or the swimming pools? Do we want to cut hours at the library? I mean those are, are the things that are sitting out there... Norton/ We might have to, this is what they're telling, they don't want to spend any money if things are gonna go down baby, there's no option. (All talking) Lehman/ Well, it seems, we're not getting anywhere in council. We haven't gotten anywhere for the last 2 hours as far that goes. It would seem to me everyone seems to agree that we'd like to see this on the ballot. I don't think there's any possibility of putting this on the ballot until we figure out how we're gonna pay for it. Now we're gonna have to come with something that's acceptable to this group and whether that's a combination of what we come up with individually and what you come with Steve that's agreeable. We can't put something on a ballot to be passed until we pay for it. Atkins/ What I come with that's agreeable, I still don't know what the rules are. (All talking) Atkins/ Give me some rules. (All talking) Thornberry/What I'm saying is bring us some proposals, you can get this money from this department, this much money from this department if you're willing to do these things. (All talking) Thornberry/...we can't, if we say fire is out don't cut the fire department that doesn't mean we still can't do this. It means that it's a bigger hit somewhere else. O.K.? It means that there like some of the things that were mentioned maybe a fewer hours in the library, maybe fewer police officers, maybe fewer ah City Clerk people, maybe you know... (All talking) Thornberry/...but all these things, if we're not willing to do some of these things or all or most or to get enough money to do the library thing... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 67 Atkins/ Will you accept payroll reductions? Thornberry/That's a flat statement... Atkins/ That is a flat statement. I can't generate sufficient moneys, you're only talking $ 150,000 for the library and you haven't even touched the Senior Center. You haven't even built in a contingency for Storm Water Management. I mean... Thornberry/What do we have to do to get the money for the library...? Atkins/ You need to tell me the sacred cows. Thornberry/Well, no we don't. No you can put um down and we can say this is sacred and cross it off. Atkins/ Dean, I'm trying, I want to be respectful to the council and say when I do this I'm going to send a very chilling message through out this organization there's going to be people that are going to be, oops am I here tomorrow or not? (All talking) Atkins/ No that is not wrong Connie, that is what happens. Champion/But that's not what we're willing to do. (All talking) Atkins/ O.K., if you're going to the out years, then there is no fire station. Just simply say that. Because those are the new employees. Thornberry/Are you saying that if we fund the library maintenance stuff we can't have library or we can't have a fire station? Atkins/ The rule is there are no layoffs, I do not go into the current payroll and I go into only things in the out years, the answers yes. Thornberry/No l'm not willing to do that. Champion/O.K., but now why is it I think it's so interesting to me but I'm (Inaudible) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 68 Champion/...not you're type thank God I don't have you're job. Atkins/ Thank you. Champion/You're probably glad I don't either. (Laughter) Champion/...but, I, you know if we're not willing to touch the fire station I think there are four of us here that are gonna say we're gonna build the fire station. O.K. now, what if I'm will to touch the police department I don't think that means layoffs I think that means not replacing the next two policeman who retire or not hiring two that we have in the future. Atkins/ Connie, that's O.K.. I mean that can be done. When we did the original eight. I have a chart of when all officers are due to retire. And we have, we already have that reasonably projected in but I can't go over to a police officer that's 56 years old and enjoying their work and say, oh by the way, you gotta retire cause you're eligible now. The guy says no, why do I want to retire? I'm saying it's, there are scenarios in there that could occur in four or five years to see five or six police officers retire. And you're suggestion is don't replace them. That's O.K., that can be done, but that's a five or six, that doesn't happen tomorrow. I could say the same thing I could say the same thi~ and quite frankly, we could probably go through the organization a number that are ready to retire. Champion/But we haven't hired all the policeman that we talked about hiring either. Atkins/ We have a number of train, no... (All talking) Atkins/ But there's always turnovers. Kubby/ Maybe we want to do four instead of six. Champion/Right... Atkins/ ...but then you're throwing away the federal grant. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 69 Kubby/ Norton/ Cubby/ ...but we don't have to say yes to everything that is offered... ... the federal grant sometimes... Thornberry/... said that about housing but we have... Vanderhoef/The federal grant allows us to have officers sooner and to remove those if we have to in the out years with the attrition. Atkins/ Yes, and that's the better strategy... Vanderhoef/...that was the strategy I went into when I accepted my present budget. Kubby/ Right and that's were you were at, that's not were everybody was at and things we're down to decision making time, so you may have to rethink what we've already, obviously we have rethink what was decided. Thornberry/If there's no fire cuts, how many police officers would it take to pay for the library? Atkins/ I would encourage you don't layoff the police officers... (All talking) Thornberry/We're not laying off... (All talking) Atkins/ ...go to community service officers that's who you should be reducing. Thornberry/All right how many would it take? Atkins/ I don't know Dean. You haven't told me what you want to do. Thornberry/We want to fund the library through reduction of the police department... Atkins/ O.K. Thornberry/...how many officers or community officers would it take... Atkins/ At least four. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 70 Thornberry/... I'm not willing to do that. Lehman/ You see, you still haven't talked about the Senior Center haven't even talked about storm water... (All talking) Atkins/ That's my point. Kubby/ What about 27 Norton/ Don't do it that way anyhow Dean. (All talking) O'Donnell/I still say the perception of making a compromise of public safety would doom this library on the next ballot. We've all had our calls with more police presence, we've had problems in certain areas of town. We've had many calls where the police have been very very successful. I've been asked for police out stations which is more police. Kubby/ Where would you be willing to look? (All talking) O'Donnell/...I'm not certain, Karen. You know I'm not certain, one thing I'm definitely not willing to look at is public safety. Kubby/ O'Donnell/ Kubby/ I want a new fire station out there. I want it staffed. It's a protection of our northeast side. I think we owe it to them to give them their policing... O.K., then we each have a responsibility throw out a few guidelines for Steve. If those are your sacred cows where are you willing, and you willing to look at the rest of it? O'Donnell/Absolutely, I'm willing look at it. Kubby/ O'Donnell/But these are two that I'm not going to touch. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 71 Norton/ Well, I think we ought to think this cut will be passed around and I think we've got to be very careful not say so and so because of the library, we've got several demands here... (All talking) Kubby/ Well, maybe we need to move on with the rest of our time to talk about... (All talking) Thornberry/Where are we? We're no where. Lehman/ That' s right... (All talking) Lehman/ ...but I don't know that we're gonna get much farther... Champion/I thi~ we've gotten pretty far, actually... Lehman/ You do? I think, who's missing? (All talking) Champion/Going to the bathroom. (All talking) (Break) / Did you get that? (All talking) Lehman/ ...don't knock it... (All talking) / ... you are older than I am... Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 72 (All talking) Lehman/ All Right. (All talking) Atkins/ We could hold 64-1a forever. (All talking) Atkins/ What's another 20 years? (All talking) Atkins/ The worst it's gonna be is a parking lot. (All talking) Lehman/ All right, Madan are you ready? Karr/ It's been on. Lehman/ Oh, all fight guys, lets get started again. (All talking) Lehman/ Where did we leave off?. (All talking) Lehman/ Right where we started. (All talking) Kubby/ ...Mike was saying that we had agreed to no cuts to public safety and I disagree with that and I disagree with that. I think that... O'Donnell/Don't say what Mike said... (All talking) Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 73 O'Donnell/I think that the consensus here that we're not gonna cut it. Kubby/ ...but I don't, I'm saying I don't think that that what you said is true. I think it's true about part of it. I think, what I'm hearing is that there at least four people if not all of us who are saying we can't do less than nine staff at the new fire station. But, I'm not hearing that police isn't something that we'd be, that there are four people willing to look at least, additionally. Mike I thought I heard four people say we're not gonna look at. Kubby/ Well maybe we should clarify that then. (All talking) Letunan/ Seems to me, folks that there is a great deal of disagreement as to where we believe we could raise the money. I think that it is not prudent to tell the Library Board that we're willing to put this on the bond issue in November until we're comfortable where we're gonna get that money. Now if we can do that in the week or two weeks or a month, that's fine, but if we can't I think we have got to know where that money's going to come from and we do it in a prudent fashion. Maybe it does mean that some of the sacred cows that some of us really don't want to see adjusted get adjusted. But I don't, I'd hate to see us go, I don't want to say that I'm willing to do this in November until I know where we can get the money. Norton/ Shouldn't we be able to do that by, that was the point of the followoup meeting, that we seemed to me to figure that out is crucial. To have and heating their thoughts about it our look at where we could possibly come up with the resources, not only for this but for the other demands that in front of us. But I if we can't get that here I don't know... Lehman/ Well, one of things, we do have a meeting next Wednesday morning. Is that Wednesday? Is that correct? / Yes. Lehman/ Obviously, we can spend a little time looking that meeting is gonna be structured a little differently, but we certainly could continue part of this conversation there. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 74 Lehman/ I don't see that we've made any progress. Other than really emphasize the fact that we've got real severe problems that none of us willing to, we're not willing to jump and make bad decisions which I think is good on the other hand we're not getting anywhere which is bad. O'Donnell/ I'd asked the library to come back with a plan, Ernie. Saying specifically what they would cut. And hope and ask them to be as efficient as they possibly can so that again may help in that that... Kubby/ ...understand too, there's still with that 95% payroll and that cut in commodities and services, they're under those same rules currently. O'Donnell/That's fight but this money that we need right now is specifically for that... Norton/ ...but they shouldn't be under no more particular obligation than most other departments if they've got ... O'Donnell/Except, Dee, that they're asking... (All talking) Norton/ So they asking, we're asking for it in a sense. Kubby/ I would interpret it differently that we would place them in the position. We knew that this was coming and we didn't plan for it. Lehman/ One of the things that I've heard several people say and some agree and some don't is that the individual council people are going to try to come with what they believe we can perhaps save money. Tell the rest of the council people we're going to expect Mr. Atkins to come up with some we can't tell him no. But in any event, I think that' s where we are on the library for fight now. We have two other... Champion/Can I just make ... Lehn~an/ Please. Champion/ ...and that is that I don't want to employees of the city to feel today that we're looking at cutting their jobs. I want to make it clear that at this point in, I'm not willing to cut anybody's job. There's always that rumor going around and it's too painful and it's cruel... O'Donnell/It's dangerous. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 75 Champion/I want people to understand that I'm not willing to cut anybody's job with what we went through today... Lehman/ I think it's fair to say at this point we have not found any money. We're gonna look. But at this point we can't say that we found money but that we're willing to do some looking. Atkins/ What do you want me to look at. Lehman/ I think in all fairness to you Steve, that we probably need to wait until next Wednesday, to see what some of the folks here come with... (All talking) Kubby/ ... what the majority wants to do is put it back on him that we need something concrete to look at on Wednesday or we will be in the same... O'Donnell/...unusual, but I agree with Karen (All talking) O'Donnell/...we have to Steve... ...wait a minute write that down and date it... O'Donnell/...but we do have to give Steve some kind of consensus of where we're headed. We haven't done that. Lehman/ I think in fairness to you Steve, if we are asking you if we say look we need to have X number of dollars, if you have to come with that money where do you believe you could best do it. But, I think at the same time you've got to very strongly point out the ramifications if you do that. Atkins/ Oh I promise you I won't be shy about that. Lehman/ Good. Atkins/ Because the bottom line folks is that services that are now, ah the public's accustom to must go away. There are things you won't do anymore, and I'm just trying to prepare you with the fact that the organization, a message is being sent. Is that we're going to make reductions... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 76 Lehman/ We're not sending that message yet. Atkins/ Ernie, I've been running large organizations all my life and the moment you set the word out, cause I'm gonna bring departments heads in, it's with Karen, I'm gonna sit her down and say, O.K. Karen what are you gonna do, she's heard this conversation. She gonna come up with some very unpleasant things that she has to do. Andy and Joe and if they're sacred cows don't send me to them. Thornberry/Well, there's another decision that that we need to look at that goes along with what Mike said, if it's up to the library to cut now do we want a larger library open fewer hours or do we want the library we've got now... Kubby/ ...the library or its decision was state law because there's quasi, we give them a budget they chose how to spend it because of how the state law structures libraries. (All talking) Thornberry/Is there a state law that says how many hours the library has to be open? (All talking) Lehman/ No, but the funding is up to us. (All talking) Vanderhoef/...but the funding is ours, so if we chose not to increase the budget for the library then they would choose how to do that. Thornberry/But if you're saying to the Library Board, ah you've got to cut back the number of the amount of money you're spending on labor, for example, if you have a larger library. Now does that mean that you've got a larger library over fewer hours or do have the library that we have now open the hours that it's open now. Is that part of it? (All talking) Lehman/ That's their call. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 77 Atkins/ (All talking) ...but a message you're sending to them is that we may be willing to finance you're capital investment and you're capital expansion but we are not willing to finance you're operational with growth. Atkins/ That's what I heard just say. (All talking) Kubby/ Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ I mean the only way I can see that that could be practical is that if they do back to us with a stand-alone library it might be designed such that they don't need all of that. Maybe they do, maybe don't I have no way of knowing that. If they come back with a stand-alone and I h~ow that that idea was kicking around, then what do you do with the current library? You buy yourself another capital asset that you've got to decide what to do with you're not gonna tear it down you're go~ma invest and if you invest what does that mean? You're gonna open the doors... ... or maybe you sell... I find it difficult to think you could sell the building the way it's configured. That my gut feel... (All talking) Atkins/ But, I don't those things, I'm just saying remember when you make a capital decision on operation it has long term implications. Thornberry/Oh yeah, the Senior Center. We've got a Senior Center now that was a post office. What's to say that somebody couldn't take the current library and... Lehman/ ...make it into a post office... (All talking) Atkins/ Kubby/ Atkins/ ...it used to be a government building, it is now a government building it has a half a million dollar budget. It provides a program of services .... And it has grant money... ...we bought it will grant money... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 78 Norton/ We can't unload the old library? Atkins/ Unload is probably what you would do. (All talking) Atkins/ Unload, somebody would buy it for a song, but I mean the point is we're leaping, and that's O.K. but that's o.k. just understand that... Lehman/ You don't know what the proposal is for the library... (All talking) Norton/ ...here's what bothers me about the library we've got to consider in that process the use of the other space and also whether there is any commercial thing above that at all. Are we talking just a library? That gets to be very complicated. And how you get that done in time really doesn't give me trouble because I would like to preserve some air space .... O'Donnell/ (All talking) Vanderhoef/...to do that by Fall though is is to me out of the question, much too fast. The question that I really want to ask we keep talking about money in the budget and we've only talked about the $180,000 here for the library. How much money are we truly looking for? How much more of this are we going to look at and looming very big here is this unbudgeted mandate of the question mark of what we're gonna have to come with for Storm Water Management and those federal guidelines are not due until this Fall. Atkins/ Well, I just want you to know like on storm water, and I don't want come back on me, I'm trapping you but storm water might be a utility fee, you might have to say it's not coming out of property taxes it's coming out of fees, so just prepare yourself for that .... (All talking) Vanderhoef/...but we aren't we aren't at that point. So that's another piece that until we make that decision we have to allocate some dollars here and we've got the dollars in there for the permitting process that's in our present capital .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 79 (All talking) Atkins/ ...Let me read, I'd like to take one minute and read something to you real quick .... Lehman/ Read it. Atkins/ General Fund Budget. How many pieces there are. City Council, City Clerk, PCRB, Attorney, Manager, Human Relations, Finance, Government Building Maintenance, Human Rights, Planning and Development, Downtown Maintenance, Energy Conservation, Police, Fire, Animal Control, a piece of Housing Inspection, because they don't pay their own way, Building does, Cemetery, Forestry, Parks, Library, Recreation, Senior Center. Now those are the things that are in your general fund and they are all, I could go to Linda and say take 10% out of your operating budget of $50,000. She's not going to be able to open the door the same number of hours that she currently opens the door. Now that means a service is going to get cut. Something's going to happen like that. That's why I just want to prepare yourselves for... (All talking) Atkins/ I'm going to do away with two or three boards and commissions because they have a staff person. Politically, that's crazy, but that's something you have to deal with. I promise not the Senior Center .... (All talking - Laughing) Atkins/ ...now you folks understand ... (All talking) Atkins/ ...my point is you understand the dilemma we find ourselves in. / Yeah. Lehman/ Steve, I think you have to appreciate the building. Personally, I have a little dilemma too, I don't know what is being proposed. We don't know if we are talking commercial. We don't know what else is gonna be proposed. We don't know whether it's a stand-alone building or if it's a combination of redoing the present building. I think we really gotta know a little bit more of what we're talking about before we... Atkins/ You need a specific... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 80 Lelunan/ Kubby/ Lehman/ Kubby/ If you're gonna be coming to us I think we really need more. More information. If there's a possibility of a combined venture of that lot 64-1 a, then some... ...complete difference... ...we know that's not what it's going to come too... (All talking) Kubby/ Norton/ Lehman/ ...we know that from the library, we may have that lot, but from the library we know that. And we know it's gonna need operating expenses unless we challenge them to do it without or without a portion of it. But we still have this question of even getting a third, we haven't even come up with a third of operating, let alone talking about the Senior Center or anything else that's on our list... ... let me ask about that timing question. Where are, where do you stand on negotiations or talk with the respect to the hotel, cause I think it does affect everything... ...they just said there might be some interest. I mean, it's kind of like, yeah, it's a good idea. No. I have no idea... Vanderhoef/ ...they are putting a lot of dollars in right now, whether they would be looking at this in a few years... (All talking) Vanderhoef/ Norton/ (All talking) ...we have no way... We won't know that by next week... Atkins/ We won't know that by next year. (All talking) Norton/ ...without a proper foundation again then, right? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 81 (All talking) Atkins/ (All talking) Champion/ Atkins/ Kubby/ All right, I'm going to ask again, what are my guidelines? I think you need to wait until we can meet with the library... ...I mean, I can make some small, I will discuss with each department director between now and Monday, but I'm assuming no layoffs, budget is as I initially said, is not changed, other that some minor kinds of things that might accumulate some money. Are people open to looking at...? (Several mumbling) Kubby/ Connie had said before that she was... (All talking) Champion/...I don't know I'm gonna wait on that... (All talking) Atkins/ Lehman/ (All talking) ...I don't think there is going to be resolution to this anytime real soon. Atkins/ I don't want you to be dissatisfied with the work that I bring back to you. And I apologize... (Inaudible) Atkins/ ...but this is a chilling effect on an organization... 0'Donnell/Absolutely. Atkins/ You know, their manager is now looking for how can I make reduction... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 82 Kubby/ ... are there people who are willing to make no reductions ... (inaudible) ... and just say there's no new operating money out there... Champion/Yes... O'Donnell/ Norton/ Kubby/ I'm willing... That means there is no new nothing. There's no new Senior Center, there's no new library, there's no new nothing. If there are four people who are at that place, we have an obligation to state it out loud, here fight now... (All talking) Kubby/ ...not waste... O'Donnell/...there are four people here that are saying we are not willing layoff people, Karen... Kubby/ 0 'Donnell/ Kubby/ ...no that's not what my question... ...saying make no cuts, no operational cuts in our current services or our 3- year budget... O'Donnell/...I will not cut anything... (All talking) Norton/ ...I don't see how each of us isn't obliged to look at the out years in the budget and see what adjustments we think could be made and then give Steve that information to assimilate. I don't know whether that's, how you're gonna do that, otherwise by just saying we'll do nothing. We'll take on no new commitments... Vanderhoef/ ...excuse me did you just say in the out years? Norton/ Yes. Vanderhoef/ O.K. In the out years, beyond the 3-year budget. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 83 Norton/ Atkins/ Norton/ Oh, I was gonna take a look at the two and three in the present one too. The out years to me are '01 and '02. That's what I was ... (End Tape 99-55 S1) Tape 99-55 S2 (All talking) Atkins/ (Inaudible) Kubby/ But we have to make cuts elsewhere... (All talking) Norton/ Atkins/ (All talking) ... '01 and '02 are substantially police and fire. That's what we added. ...then let's look at other places then... Back to sacred cows. Lehman/ ...what the individual council folks come up with by next Wednesday. Why don't you just kind of put this on the back burner... Kubby/ ...float things out loud... (All talking) Vanderhoef/ ...would it be too fast to have it out by 5:00 on Friday so Steve has all out notes over to think about ... Atkins/ Work on it this weekend you mean? Vanderhoef/ No. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 84 Vanderhoef/You can look at them if you want to but you can start on them on Monday morning for Wednesday's meeting. O'Donnell/ Norton/ Atkins/ I'm willing to look at past... (All talking) Lehman/ Norton/ / Norton/ Kubby/ ...there's nothing there... Lehman/ (All talking) Kubby/ ...there's no time constraint on this thing. This isn't something that has to be done by next week. We need to work this thing through. Whether we get it by Friday, Monday or Tuesday, that decisions not going to be made next Wednesday either. But I do think if we can come up with some ideas that we have individually, we'll talk about them next Wednesday... We often agree to do this, but I don't always see the proposals from everybody. That's true. As a matter of fact, I would like to see if people can make them, cause otherwise we don't get a collective decision out of it. I mean, if we're having this trouble with $150,000 for the library, how do we even begin talking about the Senior Center. Well, that's what where we're gonna start here pretty soon. Thornberry/You don't have much to do this weekend. Atkins/ Thank you. (All talking) Champion/... have the weekend off. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 85 Atkins/ I feel that this budget we put together that you adopted and whatever, what you did, is a more closely scrutinized operational budget, that I've done my time here, and you all did a good job, you remember how hard you worked on it. Particularly, capital and I think you rely on us to do operation changes. Please don't confuse efficiencies with cuts in service. We try our best to be as efficient as we can, sometimes the nature of a service doesn't allow you to be efficient. But we may be very effective in getting certain things done. There are many things that we do that were very effective, but aren't very efficient. Name one. (All talking) Atkins/ ...capital projects. We spend hours and hours meeting with groups, sending staff out, working with them before we ever get to you... (All talking) Atkins/ ...that's not efficient, but that sure is effective. (All talking) / That' s right. Atkins/ But I sure don't want to give that up. Norton/ Atkins/ ..sure it does, but it's good cost. Good cost in the sense you get better projects. That's what we're here for, Senior Center 99-55 S2 Lehman/ All Right. Senior Center. (All talking) Kubby/ ...how can we begin to think about that issue with those operating costs? Lehman/ I think that is a good question. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 86 (All talking) Kubby/ I cam~ot see where we can do that. How much is needed for the Senior Center? (All talking) Lehman/ ...$60,000 year incidental expenses, $12,000 debt repayment, $40,000, that's a $112,000 a year... Norton/ What all does that cover Steve... Atkins/ The Senior Center additional staff was, Linda had prepared a memo, depending obviously on the amount of space, what she had I think it was a or 3A time person and to her credit, realistically said, look, if this gets busy, I'm gonna need full-time staff. That's the sixty. The incidental expenses is open the door, turn the lights on and the debt repay is making the assumption it was a million dollar project, $700,000 in general obligation debt, $300,000 in cash, keeping with our policy, I paid ourselves back over ten years, $40,000 a year. I mean, it's a little high, but that's generally how I came up with those number. Norton/ This is assuming how much space? Atkins/ Almost 7,300 square feet. Kubby/ Cause when I think about, I know this sounds, that we know we have increased population reaching the ages or passing the age of 55 and that the Senior Center is going to be important component of providing services to people. But, at this moment in my mind what's going on is like I'm weighing the priority between the Senior Center and the library and I don't know if that's a fair thing to be doing or not, but It's kind of like the immediate thing that's in my brain. And that the library serves the whole community, all ages and that it may be that some of the strategy of Senior Centers is to be more dispersed in the future because of the characteristics of our aging population as they tend to be more active and so people may not go to the Senior Center for things, but they'll go to the Rec Center for things. It will be more dispersed, so I can't even, library has been a high priority for me, even in campaigns that I didn't win, but talking about library budgets and the importance of libraries and that's still a very high priority for me in terms This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 87 of services to the public in terms and that if we can't find the operating expenses for that, I can't begin to think about the Senior Center at this point. Norton/ Well, there's other, I'm meeting of course with Conhie, and our meeting with the county group again on Friday and I'm sending a little memo to them because they are talking tomorrow rooming about Senior Center issues, but senior dining particularly. And somethings there, depend on what happens to senior dinning, for example. There if, the county is prepared to consider options for that that might free some space, it's conceivable that the space demands are less and some of those might be mitigated even, however desirable it might be to have the additional space. I think the first question, is there anything we're doing in there now that might not be done there that would help open up some space so that we wouldn't face this, because I'm having a lot of trouble coming up with money for those too, given the demands of the library. So, I don't know this is all, contingent again, maybe we'll know more about it a week from now, whether they are willing to consider any other options, particularly on senior dining. Cause that office space and storage space for them is just been a real, real problem and whether if they can continue to prepare the meals there or is there some other option or how do we figure that out? But I'm asking the county, are you prepared to consider options for that? Are you prepared to put anything into a quick study to see what would be the more efficient possible ways to do that. Cause there again you've got people who are working for the senior dining, you don't want to unload that. So, we got to explore that possibility, what can we do with the present structure to get more space? And Linda's been doing a lot of looking at operations, use of the space, you've got a lot of questions in that area. I don't know it just seems to me really hasty to try to deal with this one now, maybe we could finesse this one by finding space in the present place. That's. . . Thornberry/Are the people involved in senior dining, are they volunteers or are they paid... Norton/ They're paid and a lot of volunteers. A lot of volunteers doing most of the delivery. But there is a staff of 13, 16 1 think, something like that. Full and part-time combination. Vanderhoef/ Norton/ ...people who do the cooking and preparation. But they have been crunched for years. If you go back and look at the record, we can look at the date, it went all the back on day one in this thing. They've actually been short office and storage and preparation space ever since the thing started. Whether that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 88 could be changed by going to some other context to do the food preparation... Champion/I've never met a cook that had enough space. (All laughing) Norton/ ...anyhow, I'm just hoping to try finesse that problem, but incidentally, the question you guys hear say nothing about the connection. (All talking) O 'Donnell/...participation... Atkins/ Yeah, they are 20%. (All talking) Kubby/ . .those employees are not city employees? / No. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Yeah, and in other space. I've seen some, well I've read all of the stuff that has come from the senior commission and from Linda, and I see the Senior Center particularly for programming and a community place to be that some of the services that are maybe being offered there could be freestand kinds of office, that wouldn't necessarily be in the space allocation... Norton/ Yeah, but it may have extra money to have to come up with money for that, you mean... Vanderhoef/No. Yeah... Norton/ ...but then they would have to go find, go through separate fundraising... Champion/...very complicated... Vanderhoef/It is real complicated. But to be as creative as possible and be real clear on what the primary use of that space is and what could be moved or juggled into other space away from that building so that that building continues to serve what I see as the primary programming. It's tough. It's really tough. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 89 (All talking) Kubby/ ...in saying that are you saying no new major space and operating expenses associated with that? Vanderhoef/Uh hugh. Kubby/ O.K., then we need to say that. I think we need to say that... Vanderhoef/I think that's implied, but you're fight, I should state that so you're real clear. Kubby/ Lehman/ Norton/ (All talking) Lehman/ Miller/ What are other people thinking? Well, I think If we're having this much trouble, which we obviously are, with the library, ah, I don't see where in the world we're ever gonna come up with a $110,000 for increased space in the Senior Center to say nothing of the financing difficulties with the project, that doesn't address those questions at all. This is just operating expenses, it has nothing to do with the capital layout. The lost tax revenue from being able to sell those condos and whatever, this is strictly operating expenses. I'm not sure that it can fly. Well part of this is capital isn't it? Debt repayment? That's only the $400,000 or $300,000 that the city loans them. But if you take off the 20% that... (All talking) Norton/ Kubby/ Norton/ Kubby/ ... small amounts of money... I mean, it's so weird because when we talk about so many projects, it's like that was only $40,000 more than we thought. Yeah. ...and it just seems so strange to be so locked, but because we're there even if it is eighty, I don't see where it's coming from. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 90 Champion/ The problem I have with it, even though it bothers me not to totally support it is, well I just think our capital projects are in place for three years. We've already done what I consider a substantial property tax increase to finance those and, if we have a bond referendum for the library that' s another big increase. Frankly if we have a bond referendum with the library, ah, and it passes, I want to look at those out years to capital improvements too, because ah, I really have just a limit on what I want people to shell out. So, I don't see anyway I that can finance ah, the Senior Center expansion even though I think it's a future mistake. Vanderhoef/The opportunistic time is to own a piece of that land, of that property in that ramp for future use. That's where I've been all along Connie. Norton/ How do you do that? Honohan/ Well for one thing, if I may... Lehman/ Microphone Jay. Honohan/ Can't hear me? Lehman/ Well, we're recording. Honohan/ Oh, excuse me...I don't know if you got our latest memo we've sent out a lot of memos. Terri you want to hand it out. Were talking about GO's for your library. We're talking about raising a bulk of the money for our expansion from parking revenue bonds which are not additional taxes. Lehman/ Jay were talking about operating expenses here. Honohan/ No. No well I thought Connie was getting into... Lehman/ Oh, Conhie was that' s right. Honohan/ So, I want to make that clear as a difference. We're also talking in our proposal we have, we are consulting fight now with the financial consultant, and were hoping to raise money towards the cost of what were doing. And as has been pointed out, we also feel the county shares in this at least to that 20% that is presently in the agreement. One thing that I think is of concern or should be of concern, if you start moving some of these agencies out that are county agencies, your going to reduce that 20, or possibly reduce that 20%. I'm not on the 20-80 committee, but it has seemed to me that perhaps This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 91 Lehman/ that needs some adjustment in view of the use rather than the agency. know how that 20% was arrived at... It's 27. I don't Honohan/ ...but the only survey that was conducted definitely shows that the county use is greater than 20% of the facility. I guess, Terri can speak to this too, it's the problem is that if we if there is ever going to be any expansion of the Senior Center, it's now. That's the critical problem. You build this ramp, you sell out the condos and that and the Senior Center is finished. And as Ernie said, the Senior Center has been that way for a long, long time. There hasn't been any changes in space in the Senior Center since it was originally opened from the stand point of the space. We understand your budget problems and we want to work with you to the best of our ability on that, although Steve may be abolishing us fight now... (Laughing) Honohan/ I guess that' s our major concern is that if we don't get the expansion now, there is no expansion. And with the growing senior population it seems to us that this is vital. And I don't know any other way to say it. Its kind of awkward being stuck in here with the library. We didn't plan on that. (All talking) Lehman/ We didn't either. Thornberry/I've got a question on the interior construction costs. Some of the figures that you got, I don't know where they came from whether they be from, but it's got an interior construction cost at $50 a square foot. Last night we just heard $70 a square foot. (All talking) Atkins/ It's a hundred and a quarter Dean, do a hundred and a quarter, seventy plus fifty, that's the way to look at how much it might cost to build this space. Kubby/ Atkins/ Seventy to build it, fifty to renovate it, one-twenty something a square foot that's how that number... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 92 Thornberry/I understand but $50 a square foot for interior construction cost, I thought it was $72 a square foot for the vanilla. (All talking) Lehman/ Atkins/ Kubby/ Lehman/ This is on top of the vanilla. This is on top of it. This is the toping. The nuts, the fudge, the strawberries. Thornberry/Oh. I see. Vanderhoef/That the one possibility that I see in this whole thing is the new figure of 27% use from the county residence which would we are getting roughly $100,000... Atkins/ Roughly... Vanderhoef/...a year for our contract and 28E Agreement. New money could be if that went up to the 27% versus 20%, so 7% on $100,000... Atkins/ $7,000. Vanderhoef/That might take care of a staff. Champion/Why doesn't Coralville contribute any money to this... ? (All talking) Norton/ That's another question... (All talking) Atkins/ One of the things council, I think you need to deal with right up front is, ah and you appear to be brutally candid on some of these things. You have traditionally not used parking revenue bonds for anything other than parking. Period. You did the same thing with water, remember the water revenue bonds, anything that was a trail became general fund. So while this space is incidental to and probably could be financed by parking revenue, your aware that we've done our best to keep the bond issue down. So you understand that's where we are right now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 93 Lehman/ Well, you know we could probably, it 's like the library, the capital portion of this project is not something that probably couldn't be worked out. But the operating ... (All talking) Atkins/ ...million dollar project is not a back-breaker... (All talking) Kubby/ ...except we do a whole bunch of this on top of... Atkins/ Absolutely. Kubby/ ... and we have been doing the last three or four years. Honohan/ Steve, may I ask you a question? Atkins/ Yes. Honohan/ That you raised to me. We used to help pay for some of the downtown police maintenance and stuff like that out of parking revenues, we don't do that any more? Atkins/ No, parking revenue is parking. Lehman/ Except for $90,000 a year for buses. Atkins/ We transfer $90,000 to transit and that's it. Honohan/ One other thing I'd like to say, that $72 a square foot in part is the cost because your building a five and a half story ramp. It has nothing to do with the fact that its part of the Senior Center or commercial space. It would be a lot less than that if it was just a regular building. Kubby/ lZlut its not so the reality is that... (All talking) Honohan/ In justifying paying it with parking revenue bonds. Kubby/ Oh I see, or even that portion. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 94 Honohan/ And that's all we've done in our memos we talk about that portion only for parking revenue bonds. Champion/ Honohan/ And I projected a low figure of a hundred thousand from the public. I didn't want to raise your expectations and then fail. If we raise more than that we're helping out more with the capital improvements than that. Talk to the kickers. Honohan/ Well the Mercer Park... (All talking) Norton/ It does seem to me it's the opportunity to grab some base for the, to forgo the opportunity to get some base seems to me a real, I hate to see that happen knowing that this thing is totally land-locked. This banter of taking on more, and more things, have we taken on more things than the population growth suggests. We aren't guilty of the lily, I take it. Were doing some things that the population base presumably demands why are we falling so far behind is it entirely the roll back that kills us. Atkins/ No. If you take a look, and that's why I did the chart on the growth in the eight-ten, at 4% a year. If you remember one of the factors in the rollback is statewide average 4% applied to this, applied to this, applied to this, then they do the rollback and our growth in assessed value is far healthier. But it's taxable value is what you've got to live with. I mean, I didn't use the term lightly but the bottom line is the state gives you an allowance. They've said the allowance is $8.10 of your taxable value. Now run your cities that way, thank you very much now go on about your business. Honohan/ One thing I would toss in here, its hard to keep a lawyer down but... (Laughing) Atkins/ Retired lawyer. Honohan/ ... even retired lawyer. You were talking about meeting rooms at the library one of our proposals would be an excellent meeting room for the public on the first floor of the Iowa Avenue ramp. And if I don't think I would call it an auditorium, but its gonna have substantial space there if everything falls This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 95 Miller/ Norton/ Honohan/ into place, and I'll admit this is all very tentative, but were talking about 2,500 to 2,700 square feet exclusive of the accessory facilities in that space or for meetings for the public. One of the things that that could add is some operating money. If that space is rented it possibly could help deal with the operational budget. That is what I hear is a really big struggle at this point. Something else that, you know, we haven't looked at participant fees. For a number of years since I initially, since my probably my first year on the commission, um, to get a really good look at participant fees, but that might be something that is required again also to help in the operational end of the budget. I think there are a lot of things that we would certainly be willing to look at knowing that the future of the center is going to be squashed is we don't. How do your space needs turn out if, for example senior dining were not being prepared there, how would that affect your space needs? Just in terms of their office not the kitchen but let's pose just ... Their office isn't much bigger than that table that you guys are sitting around and they got four or five people in there so I don't think the office space is more like a closet. The dinning space could be two offices if you broke it into that. It would be a substantial cost to take them out of there with all the stuff they've got in there. Sure, we've thought about senior dining being somewhere else or at least preparing the meals somewhere else but that wouldn't solve the problem the assembly room. One of the problems of the assembly room is that you have senior dining trying to be in there most of the morning and until 1:30 or 2:00 in the aBemoon and then your trying to jam in a program which is attended by 50 to 75, the last one I had or I attended was about 75 people in the room. And you're trying to arrange it for them and get your speaker up there. It becomes very difficult that's one of the reasons we're pushing for the meeting room on the first floor of the ramp is because this would free up the assembly room for senior dining and it would also allow for programs there and programs over at the meeting room. And we had our retreat and we got all kinds of, you know how things expand they just keep expanding and we've got all kinds of ideas out of our retreat as to things the center could be doing in the future paticulary when were dealing with more active people. I mean, fight now the biggest active group is The New Horizons Band and that just keeps growing. I do my legal counseling on Thursdays and they're down in the assembly room and I'm up in the mezzanine and I've got a serenade no matter what I'm doing. They need space for their instruments it's just... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 96 Kubby/ Was there talk at the retreat about having Senior Center programming off-site at different facilities? Honohan/ We discussed that too, yes we did and... Kubby/ Good because with or without space I think that's going to have to become part of your plan, especially for the younger seniors. Honohan/ Well, and try to intise the more active people. We have too much of, without making anybody upset, the concept that only elderly, feeble people attend the Senior Center. First of all that's not true, and secondly, we there's a large group of the population that is eligible for the Senior Center that won't come because they have that image. And we'd like to dispel that image. Champion/ Honohan/ Well, I was on that... Lehman/ The not so Senior Center. Miller/ ...community image and I don't know much about this program, but I know the Chamber of Commerce is wanting to work with seniors to do more kind of programming and community and I think that will help that dispel that myth or dispel... Champion/...because there is that myth. I think a lot of that started because I think in the beginning the Senior Center for Iowa City, there really was a place for the aged and confirmed, I guess to go... Miller/ Yeah, and it was congregate meals and... Champion/Right. Milled ...only adds that vision. So, that becomes in some respects, that becomes a difficulty for the Senior Center... Champion/We have to decide. You know, I just think, I don't we can afford it, I just think it's a terrible mistake not to do it... Lehman/ You guys meet on Friday again? I mean I, my feelings... (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 97 Lehman/ We certainly wouldn't want to give any encouragement to the possibility of us doing this. I mean at this point, it looks like it's going to be a pretty remote possibility, but I guess we could hear back from you folks after your meeting Friday. Norton/ We wanted to explore a little bit more where they would be with respect, I said some of the questions we identified, we've worked closely with Linda and trying to read all the background documents on all those, but we're not making any, jumping off any buildings on Friday, but we'll try to clarify where they are at. Vanderhoef/...meeting with the county also? (All talking) Norton/ We're not trying to revise the 20-80, but we're trying to get some principals together about, that might lead to that, whether it would come down to 27% or not... Kubby/ But no matter what comes out of that meeting on Friday, the question is still before us... Norton/ ...operating expenses. Even if the county say agrees to the expansion and a share of all the costs, it still leaves us $80,000 short doesn't it? Lehman/ Atkins/ One of the things I think you need to put on the table without giving away our position is that you are actively with some property owners who also are making similar requests on that space, so, understand that issue is out there also. An idea that you might want to think about, particularly I was thinking about that second floor, your policy had been we're gonna sell it for condos, you could lease it... Lehman/ That's fight and reserve it... Atkins/ and reserve it then for sometime in the future as an option... Thornberry/... I understand but... Lehman/ We could always sell it later. Thornberry/I understand. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 98 Vanderhoef/ (All talking) Atkins/ ...rent... Lehman/ ...the taxes are in rent... Thornberry/ Vanderhoef/ ...and an additional $70,000 towards operating from the county is a possibility. You're comment doing some fees and so forth that it looks maybe more like what Rec Center does, trying to come up with a percentage of your operating budget, which is the way they have self-imposed, it isn't something that has been required of them, but they for a long time go with 45% and it's dropped down a little bit. So, it's closer to 40 right now of their operating. Kubby/ Engineering wise is it possible, if we kind of like that building and instead of selling it leasing it with the thoughts that in the future the Senior Center could expand... Atkins/ uh hugh Kubby/ ...that the skywalk can be added later. Lehman/ Atkins/ To my knowledge, Karen, that's O.K. I'd ask the architect, but I've always understood that when you decide, if you decide to put, you can put that walkway in... (All talking) Kubby/ ...I need a little time to ponder that... Lehman/ All right. Vanderhoef/The additional dollars since my original statement, the original dollars from the county to make this happen and some fees that could bring in the staff dollars, this has more possibility in that respect for me now also. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 99 Lehman/ I think we'll wait... Norton/ Well, that combination of things would help keep the option open... (All talking) Kubby/ ...as big a mistake... Champion/...a part of me says no way and then I got to thinking... Vanderhoef/... i f we sell it... Lehman/ All right. Kubby/ But I'm still in the same place of saying no way to the increased operating expense in the short-term... Vanderhoef/Unless it's generated by them... Norton/ ...some fees... Kubby/ Well, I want to understand, I'd be open to looking at that yeah. Vanderhoef/Cause right now the $100,000 that we get from the county for the Senior Center is in their operational budget. Norton/ Should we look at the Coralville contribution? I don't know why that is, we're paying double... Champion/ (All talking) Atkins/ O.K., before we go, just so we understand on the 12th, what you're expecting. I mean I'll do some general review, I think... (All talking) Atkins/ It's 8:00 here. We'll kind of pick up where we left off. I can come up with some ideas that have no layoffs, no police, no fire, no this no that. I'm suppose to give those to you? Thornberry/Absolutely. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599 May 5, 1999 Council Work Session Page 100 Atkins/ O.K. you finished? Bit of good news. You guys need it. estimates 6.350, low bid 4.9. (Loud cheering) Champion/A miracle has happened. (All talking) Atkins/ Lehman/ Atkins/ ...pencil not ink. (All talking) Lehman/ All right. (Gavel) Adjourned: 11:10 AM Well, we're not done yet. Good news. Guys we're out of here. Foster Road This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 5, 1999 WS050599