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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-05-12 TranscriptionMay 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 1 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session 8:10 AM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thomberry, Vanderhoef Staff: Atkins, Helling, Dilkes, Karr, Craig, Kopping, Yucuis, Rocca, Winkelhake Tapes: 99-56 all, 99-57 S1 Lehman/We're going to start in just a (excuse me) ask if she could have 3 or 4 minutes at the beginning of the meeting and I told her that would be fine so if you'd like to just step up here where we could record what you have to say. Library Statement 99-56 S1 Jesse Singerman/Well after listening to your debate last week and seeing what an important issue operating costs are and what a difficult issue it is for you we had a meeting last night. What we want to express this morning is that we're committed to working with you on the issue of operating costs in order to find a solution that works to our mutual benefit. And we believe that we could do this in a couple of ways. One is that we're committed to building a building that is the most efficient or can be mn with the fewest additional staff hours and so on and that would be done in part with the building design and also by adding some elements such as self check out. We also believe that we can raise some additional monies our self to help offset any additional costs and that you know you have our pledge that we will work to keep the additional the increase in expenses low as possible. We will need some additional funding from the city but we don't need at the level that you've been discussing for the past week a $180,000. So we wanted to just express to you that we recognize the issue that that represents for you and we really want to work with you address it. And separately we wanted you to know that last night we approved a contract for a public survey or a telephone random survey telephone survey of library users and voters in order to better understand what happened during the sales tax vote. And what you know what made up that decision by the voters so that we all have some more information about going forward at this time. You know what actually is public opinion out there. We're also planning what will probably be a series of public meetings asking people to come to a library to talk to them about the situation there. We're going to do tours and of course if any of you would like a tour of the library we'd be more than happy to give that to you. And let people see for themselves some of the things that are kind of hidden or behind you know behind closed doors that you This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 2 don't really get the feeling for unless your trying to sort books and you can't get to people in the room. Kubby/When is that? Singeman/When is that? I think the first one is May 26 correct? And depending on the response that we get we you know we'll probably be doing more meetings like that as we get further into this. So those were the two things we wanted to let you know that we're concerned also about operating costs and recognize it's a serious issue for you and that we're willing to be serious with you. Any questions? Kubby/Is there any talk about specific dollar amount for operating expenses? Singerman/I think at this point we're, well you know two things. One the amount of operating costs increases is still hypothetical I mean we have an estimate but you know we don't have a building plan so it is sort of up in the air. We feel pretty confident that we can raise probably another $50-60,000 dollars towards those expenses, at this point that' s kind of what the ballpark that we were thinking of. Dee Norton/Jesse, how well defined is your project? Singerman/Well I would the square footage, the space allocation and that those things are very well defined. You know where it is, the building design and so on will really depend on some of our conversation on May 17. You know what we have the option to look at in view of what you think so. Norton/Do you plan to bring us some alternatives at that point or is that (can't hear). Singerman/What we want to do is discuss several issues, one is 64(1)a, (can't hear) use that is our planning process. Another is are there any other restrictions that you would put on us in trying to figure this out, property acquisition for example. But we have kind of list of questions, about 3 to 4 questions that we feel like we need guidance from you before we go any further. Vanderhoef/Will we have those before that meeting? Singerman/Well a couple of them are in the letter that I provided you and I can certainly write up a list this week sure. Lehman/Jesse, how, obviously you know what space requirements you think you need and what I think from specifics as far as location and design of a building and all those kinds of things that go into selling the public on the idea of a referendum, do This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 3 you, are you guys have a pretty good handle on how your going to be able to do that and with the time that we have between now and November? Singerman/How we would sell to the public on the referendum? Lehman/You know as far, yea, I mean you've got building design, location, I have no idea what you I suspect your talking about a freestanding building but I don't know that. But I mean the public at this point has just not (can't hear) whatever we had in the box. But I you know, to me there has to be there would be a significant amount of time involved in selling the public on a project of this magnitude and I guess I have some reservations about whether or not there is time to do the kind of job it would take to get this thing sold. Singerman/Well one of the reasons we decided to do the survey was to better understand what public opinion is. I mean if we get back from the survey that people you know hated the sales tax and they hated the library expansion, well we know more than we know now. But what we heard during the campaign was "yes" to the library and "no" to many other things. So we kind of wanted to test the waters and see is that what actually happened. And if the survey shows us that most people really do see the need at the library and would you know would like us to go forward then I think we all have more information than we have today. Lehman/Well that's true. Singerman/Anything else? Thank you for your time. Lehman/Thank you. Well this moming our (can't hear) going to be discussing library issues. I think the last meeting if we didn't do anything else we pretty much reinforced the fact that finding funds for almost anything is not easy. Today I see we have a suggestion from Dee Norton. I think we need to, I don't think it's possible to tell the library a "yes" or a "no" but I do think it's possible for us to come up with what we think are possibilities of what we can and what we can't do and I think we should I'd like to see us do that. Pending what the library has to tell us next Monday which obviously we'll have some impact on what we would like to do. So, how do we want to do this moming? Obviously last time we did say you know we did indicate there are some significant difficulties with trying to come up with library funds, I don't think we know the exact year that we're going to need that money, how, how, where it will come from or when we need it. I guess I would, is there discussion from council first? Steve we'll get to you in a minute. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 4 Champion/When would be the next time in our budget cycle that (can't hear) to the library. Lehman/Well next budget session would be the first of the year, first of next year when we start doing our budget for the following three years. Kubby/But the issue of tightness will be (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Well the first planning part would be the fourth year, we're edging into the three fight now and there's nothing that says we have to keep it that way but a lot of the commitments that we made with this year were ongoing and were not one time (can't hear). Champion/OK. So then my question is, if the (can't hear). Lehman/We have budgeted through 2000. 2001 or 27 Atkins/Beg your pardon? Lehman/Our budget's done through 2002 (can't hear). Atkins/The one you just adopted is Fiscal 2000, 01, 02. Lehman/Right so. Atkins/The fiscal year begins this coming July. Lehman/Right, fight, so. Norton/Ernie, I think the earliest I think at which these additional operating expenses would begin to be incurred? In other words let's talk about because it's kind of important in terms of timing of things we've planned now, what' s your guess about that? Lehman/Well I think were looking at least two years, probably two years. Norton/July. Lehman/Probably 2 ½ years from fight now. Norton/July of what, let's talk dates now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 5 Atkins/July of 02. Lehman/July of 02. Norton/July of 02. That's. OK. So when I was thinking over the looking over our plan and our plan ran into the last of those years that is starting July 01 I guess I thought we were 00, 01, 02, so that's the end of our plan. So I'm it's conceivable the changes don't really come in this present cycle. The changes come in. Lehman/They come in the third year of the budget that we just finished. Norton/Yea, OK, that's fight, the third year. Vanderhoef/So the staff is talking the fourth year. Norton/It seemed to me important to consider that in terms of any changes that you might make. Champion/Next year we will go one further fight? Lehman/That's fight. Champion/02, 03 and then possibly we can get the library expenses in the budget. Norton/Well they should be incorporated in the third year of that. Champion/Right, which would be (can't hear). Lehman/No, that's fight. Norton/First year that, second year that budget. Lehman/Well the second year or. Champion/Third year. Lehman/Well it would be the second year of the budget that we talked about in January if we choose to make changes to the present budget. Champion/Well no, I'm not willing to make changes to the present budget, 03 would be the soonest. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 6 Lehman/That's fight. Vanderhoef/That's, that's. Champion/That's my question. (can't hear) refer to ask that kind of question. Lehman/Right. Kubby/But circumstances will be different at that time in terms of that of 03 's budget, 02's budget in terms of new revenue coming into the general fund or operating expenses that we've (can't hear) committed to and by that time already hired more people that we're talking about real people and real service. I mean cause I mean maybe that' s a question for Steve at that fourth 02, 03 what new general fund revenue do we expect? And if the answer's no we're in the exact same place. Vanderhoef/That's exactly right. That's a possibility. Atkins/It's fight here, I don't expect (can't hear). Kubby/I don't think we should do. Atkins/Other than normal grounds. Kubby/Do to the community or to library patrons or to a new council. Think about that there could be four new people here also during that budget time asking them to make that kind of cut. Lehman/That's one of the first things neat about the student regarsible????, we decided there maybe a new council, it's type the. (can't hear) do not like what we did. Norton/Yea, (can't hear) I still think we ought to see where we can come up with the money, I don't know, you know, I've identified four or five places that I you know their not new their ones I had in front of you when we were doing our budgeting earlier. Because no matter how much you think about this that it continues possibility is always there. So I think we need to try to identify that and I can do something, we've got to get a solid consensus that we can do that, that's the key. Kubby/Well we kind of had an informal agreement that we would all look at the budget and come up with some ideas so maybe we can hear what things people saw. I mean Dee has put his in writing and so are there other people who have ideas we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 7 can start talking about specifics that people have on it. I mean did anybody besides Dee. Thomberry/We can always cut council salaries. Norton/What, yea, the amount is enough, then grab it. Thornberry/No problem getting 50, 20, 25, 30 and then 80. (All laughing). Norton/Now these are my (can't hear) or not, you know I'm looking at ways to try to fill in, I think we've got look at volunteers, I know places that get along with a lot of volunteers all together. Thornberry/I don't know if we can volunteer with a police department and fire department. Norton/Well there's lot of communities that do a lot more than we do. Champion/The problem with volunteers Dee is that their, I'm sorry, unreliable. Norton/Well, there are plenty of cities, plenty of organizations that do plentiful with volunteers. Thornberry/In the fire department? Norton/What. Thornberry/In their fire department? Champion/Coralville. Norton/Yea. Thornberry/In their police department? Norton/Yea. Thornberry/Volunteer police department. Norton/Yea. ?????man/Auxiliary police, there are some but the liability is, cut that out. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 8 Norton/What I'm saying is we got to get serious about ways to try to get the public without property expense you know it's kind of doing with mirrors but I'm just suggesting that that's a serious possibility. Thornberry/There's nothing wrong with a volunteer fire department and I don't and I don't mean to say that there is, because I like volunteer fire departments. But I don't how much money it's going to save you with a volunteer. Norton/I don't either Dean but I think we should give it some serious consent. Thornberry/You know your (can't hear) asking volunteers every time they are called out, and then and have the regular's try to work the volunteers. Norton/It's tricky but you know have a professional force, I'm thinking (can't hear). Thornberry/I think we need to hear from the chief to see how that would work with the union personnel and everybody else I don't know how, I don't know how that would work. Norton/I couldn't agree more but we have a, you know we have volunteers working in the library along side professionals for example and many other. Thomberry/I understand. Norton/Situations, and I just think it's stuff that we need to do maybe get after more seriously if we're going to do a lot with not too much money, we have to. Champion/That's a step backwards. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Norton/OK. That's just my proposal, it looks like it's going over like a lead balloon but that's my proposal. Lehman/Well we just need to. Kubby/Instead of how does that save us money? Norton/What? Kubby/How does that save us money? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 9 Norton/Cause I'm trying to background, I'm trying to add one fewer apples or ifit's at some point or through attrition or whatever, I'm not talking anybody laying off. But and in case of the fire we're trying to man a station with 9 trying to have to add new people we're kind of a good by the building. Which I'm looking at some way of maybe having one less and trying to get that coverage out there by some reassignment maybe, volunteers could help provide that flexibility. Thornberry/Well we, the chief already dropped you know, 1 in 12 for the new fire station and was coheresed and dropped and at least understood the need for conservation and dropped in down to nine and I don't know how much more you want to cut. Kubby/Well I have two very specific ideas about. Norton/Go ahead please do. Kubby/Police that would save operating expenses and neither I believe will affect public safety. I've very hesitant to talk about specifics because frankly I fear that ideas that come from me aren't going to be openly heard but I'm going to do them anyway because there's no other way to do it at this point. One would be to hire all the six grant funded officers as we're planning to do. But with when the next one or two officers retire because we don't know when that is, we don't rehire those people. And that there will be some lag time there where we're going to have a little operating expenses but I project the savings will be (can't hear). Excuse me, and we would take that money cause it's short term money from our reserves so that' s compromising, our tax rate or long-term operating expenses and that way we get the advantage of the grant money but we have reduced operating expenses by up to $90,000, if we do one officers, $45,000 if we do one officer. The other way to approach it where we don't decrease the number of either detectives or higher level officers or patrol officers is to discuss the DARE program. I mean the school system and the community if they feel that it's that important can pick it up. Then that officer could then become a patrol officer and then next person who retires doesn't get replaced. Or we just well that would be the way I would suggest cause then there are no no one is out. Cause all the I think all the DARE officers fight now are were patrol officers so that would be another way that it wouldn't, that there's some very feasible ways, especially the DARE program part of it, would not take anybody off the street or doing direct police work that has to do with public safety. And that the school system has had in the past I forget what it was past, I forget what it was called something 2000 but it's going to be invaded now. What was it called, there's the substance abuse. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 10 Champion/Pride of 2000. Kubby/That they con, some people in the district will be disappointed to take DARE out of the school but other people will be very relieved I think there' s real misreactions and so maybe this, I mean a lot of times the DARE was designed in pan not to just be prevention but to be public relations for the police department and there, and we're trying to do other ways in creating public relations with the police department and having community policing or at least some form of that. So those are two specific suggestions I have about. Norton/Well mine is the same, mine is the same of course that's a line of attrition to accomplish this reduction beginning by beginning of FY02 depending on how the change is accomplished. And that's where I said consider public safety for volunteer to help deter problems in certain areas so I'm trying to figure a way to cut but I assume attrition would be the only way for that to happen, but I hate to do it but I think we try to cover this need. Thornberry/What do you need to do? Norton/I hate to mess with the police but I got to do something. Thomberry/Yea, I do to. Norton/We've got to find some areas where (can't hear) cut. Thornberry/I hate to mess with the police to the point where I don't think I want to. Norton/Let them figure out how to make the end of things, that's all you can do. Thornberry/The library decided (can't hear). Norton/(can't hear) mess with the library to this standing professional position too. The police contribute 50 to this operation, the library contributes to position. Information Services and Fire, they've all got to throw in 50K, sorry, that's about the way it looks. Thornberry/I don't agree with that. Norton/OK. Vanderhoef/Well Dee where I came from on the attrition thing was I thought we were biting off a lot to have the six officers in the first place but because of the requests This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 11 from the community and our commitment to more community policing and it was like OK I was willing to accept the grants for the six but I considered my ace in the hole was a possibility if our general fund was to tight that we could do the attrition so I'm not prepared to budget an attrition. Do you see what I'm saying? Because of the general fund and having us doing this as our first year, we're doing 95 percent on the funding for our. Norton/Personnel yea. Vanderhoef/Personnel. So if there's any slack or any need for a little more money to cover things that was my one ace in the hole to get the money so I'm not willing to budget in there for attrition of an officer who retires. Kubby/Except that we do have a tight budget. Vanderhoef/I know. Kubby/And we do have a need and it wouldn't be scheduled until 02. Norton/Yea, at least. Kubby/And so your ace in the hole instead of being it would be played out in the same year but instead of making the decision in 01 to do that. Your making the decision to do it. Both are, budgeting attrition for the future, but we know we have this need and I mean we have to do something or else we're telling the library no. And if that's where four people are that we're just not going to make any cuts in the budget, your telling the senior center no, the library no, and any other new services no and if that's where we're at we need to say that out loud. Thornberry/Well it's not that it can't be resurrected in the future, at especially with the size and the magnitude, I don't know what we're looking at as far as the library's concerned, is it old plan, without anything below it or? Lehman/We don't know. Kubby/We know we're going to need some operations it's very realistic right now. Thomberry/Oh yea, yea. Kubby/And so I mean we're not even coming up with $3.00. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 12 Thornberry/I don't know if it's like I said, I don't ifit's really necessary to discuss it a whole lot further fight now when we don't even know when it's going to. Norton/(can't hear) knows it, however it, there needs to be increased operating expenses I'm assuming. Thornberry/Yea. Norton/Now I don't know the exact numbers of those but I'd just assume that if we could come up with a net of $150,000 savings, that was one number we talked about a little earlier tonight was one particular project so that's why I'm looking for 3, 350 plus a restraint that keeps the library from adding money cause they had hoped. Thornberry/Well if, you know if we don't need it for two years after the election, what we could do, and I'm not necessarily in favor of this because of the cost of the election but could see if the people really want it knowing that there going to we're going to take a hit on the help later on. If the people say yes we really do want this library then it would be up to the next council basically to see where the monies going to come from. The staff given, they've only got so money you've only got, you know a $100,000 thousand a year or say. Then, I mean the people may say heck no, you know, we don't, if they vote it down then the time we spent on this is sort of down the drain. If they do accept the library and want a bill, then if that's this fall then basically the new council, it might be this council, it might be a new council, would still have a year or two to come up with the money. Kubby/For the last three years, I don't know the exact time frame we've been telling the library board until we know where operating expenses are going to come from. Thornberry/And I don't know (can't hear) fight, and I don't know. Kubby/And there are people around this table who have, I mean I know Emie has stated and a couple others, I can't remember who else. Thornberry/Yea, yea. Kubby/And feel some responsibility to have that knowledge up from. Thornberry/Yea, and I don't see, and I don't see, and I don't. Lehman/But I don't think you give your blessing to a bond issue without knowing where the money will come from if, even though that decision can be changed by a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 13 different council I don't think you go into something and say you will do it without knowing how your going to do it. We haven't heard any comments from the left side of the table. O'Donnell/Please don't call me leR. Norton/(can't hear) at attention please. O'Donnell/I don't really don't know why everybody's so shocked, we all sit here and we're well aware we did this budget without including the sales group, without the sales tax and we knew that stuff would be very very difficult to accomplish without the proceeds with that. I'm personally not willing to cut on the police or the fire department, I won't do that, that's public safety. It's irresponsible to cut that. Dee you've been crying about nut cracking. Norton/Yea, (can't hear) talking about behind whatever you want. O'Donnell/No, I didn't mean that. We've been talking about more police presence downtown. Norton/Yep. O'Donnell/And we've heard that over and over and one officer assigned to work downtown and he's called away frequently and I just I'm not going to look at either one of those. However, we do spend a $100,000 a year on public art, where we've got that, is that a good thing to have? Yes it is? Is it a necessity, I don't know, I don't think it is. There's a $100,000 dollars. I think we can look into other commissions that spend a lot of money, if we're going to do that and we can do that without cutting services I'm just not going to do that, I don't care how creative the plan is, you try to do it through attrition your still operating at a shortage. You don't replace an officer you're one short. Norton/You don't if you don't get creative with some of the methods that's fight. And I haven't seen much creativity in that area. O'Donnell/I've given you one. (All talking) Champion/Well I think the idea of looking at commissions (can't hear) not a bad idea, they do use a lot of staff time. But I think if you put this library on the ballot with the idea that if we get the library we don't, one less policeman, one less fireman or This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 14 we're giving up public art. I don't think that I just don't think that's very (can't hear) library. Norton/(can't hear). Thomberry/I really don't either. Champion/And I totally support the library and I'm anxious to have our meeting with them to see what they have planned but I'd like to kind of throw it back in their lap where there going to get the operating expenses. Norton/Where's the money go though? Champion/Well I'm going to ask them that. We still have a time that the bond referendum passes your still going to have some time to look at that 03 budget where you can look for operating expenses and I don't think that's unrealistic and I disagree with Karen that we're saying no to the library, I don't believe that at all. But I do think you have to be realistic about what we've done with the present budget and where we're going from here so I think we can talk all we want to but I think the most important thing we need to do is have that meeting with the library board and find out what they have in mind. Kubby/You know we known this since, we've known for six weeks that we need to figure this out since the sales tax vote and it's been our task to find this money and we haven't found it, how are, I just don't understand how things are going to be different. Champion/Because we're going to find out, we should have done that budget (can't hear). Lehman/Well no, cause at that time we would have said that we don't think the sales tax is going to pass and that would have and that would have not been a good move. Lehman/But I think let's let's. O'Donnell/(can't hear) Emie and Connie's fight and that we started with a budget then went through and fined tuned it and cut it. (alltalking). O'Donnell/That we thought wasn't absolutely necessary. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 15 Kubby/So for the people, so if there were more people who said we don't want to deal with this issue in terms of this budget that doesn't, what does that do to the decision about putting this item on the ballot in November? Lehman/Well I think first of all. Kubby/Or March or whenever. Lehman/I believe this council is a very supportive council of the library. Am I wrong? Is there anybody who doesn't, and I believe over the years that I've been on the council we've done I mean the ICN room, the computer system, whatever we obviously had not had a new facility built but when the we've been pretty good partners with the library when it comes to funding for projects that they needed because I think we then realized that we appreciate the importance of the library. We found ourselves in a bit of a tight spot I don't think it's a spot that we can't work our way out of it and I think we have to in parmers with the library and I think that's been a two-way street obviously they've been working for about 7 years in regarding this construction of the building and I do know back 20 years ago or so when they built the present building hemmed and haahed and messed around with it and ended up not building the one thing that the building prevented the discussion that we're talking about fight now, we took out the footage so I think whatever we do really really needs to be fight, and needs to be done so it will last for a long long time, will be the kind of building that they need and something we don't need to address in the future. And we all, we have gone through what I think and I think we did very carefully went through our budget we knew when we did the budget Steve told us where we were and where we weren't and there's not a lot of fat in that budget. I believe that there probably is a role on the part of the council at some point to try to fund a new library facility. I don't know exactly when that' s going to come but I mean am I wrong, don't I feel that we would support a new library facility, I think we have obviously where it's going to come from. Thornberry/I'm not sure that I would support a brand new an all new brand new library downtown in Iowa City. I think that other things as we grow could facilitate the current library. I'm not sure Ernie that I would support building a whole new brand new library. Lehman/Well that decision would be made by the public. Thomberry/Yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 16 Lehman/Whether or not they want to spend the money and that's the decision that whether or not we personally agree with or not the public is going to tell us that their willing to spend however many dollars this (can't hear). Kubby/(can't hear). Lehman/We have to ~md the operation of it. Kubby/That's fight, and no matter what form it comes in Dean whether it's different kinds of services and different places that increase operating budget no matter what so we're still in the same conversation no matter what your (can't hear) is the library services. Thornberry/That's correct. Norton/It also strikes me that absolutely (can't hear) the council as a whole be seriously behind the project, we can't simply pass it out with a forum pat on the back to see what the public (can't hear), we need to be seriously and collectively behind this project and the funding of it both capitol wise and operating wise. (can't hear) Otherwise your not going anywhere, we can't just identify what do you think folks? I don't think we ought to operate by the weight of the mail in that kind of way I think we need some leadership here to say that this is we were talking about a serious attraction to downtown and the library surely has justified it's needs and it seems to me that the fact that the library wasn't at the table in the same sense when we were forming the budget because they were kind of on hold we might have funded a budget somewhat more like what I have in mind had they been at the table for some personnel requests well they weren't and therefore you moved along the six of this and X of that without regard to their needs which were not properly now, now their put in position of if you don't, that' s why I hate to write this down is that I'm trying to get the library on the back of the police and fire, this is ridiculous. I'm trying to balance all the needs across the city and see how to proceed best to get this in the hopper operationally. Now that's tough but I don't see how we can do it otherwise. And we've got to do it collectively with some enthusiasm not grudgingly. Thornberry/And I think later is better than sooner. Lehman/Well. Norton/If that's a virtue where you can show me the bfitches that I sure don't want to rush it Dean by going into something that's doomed to fail. I want to know that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 17 when we go into this we have a big fat chance of success. I don't want another loss let me put it that way. Thornberry/Yea. Lehman/Well I've talked to a couple of you folks about this and I think the couple things that concem me. There is a possibility and it maybe remote I have no idea, but there is some possibility on some part of another property on the end of the Holiday Inn in putting something together that might include or be adjacent to or incorporate with the library. I have no idea how long. Norton/Or (can't hear). Lehman/How strong that interest is or how soon that would come about. I do know there is some interest because I've talked to those people. I have the same concern that you have to some degree. I really don't want to see a bond issue not pass, I mean that's a reflection on the council, it's a reflection on the community, it's a reflection on the library board, it reflects on everybody. And I agree we need, we need 100 percent total support from the council and the community to see that it works. And I am not sure personally, I guess, I'm a little apprehensive over that sort of score can be gamered or a referendum that would come as soon as this one left. Now if there's, a possibility, there is, there may be some things that we can do or the library board can do and I think it's their call. But there may be some things that can happen in that present building to make that facility to last for an extra year or two. There is and I don't know how much room is there on the second floor that's not built? Norton/8,000. woman/5. Lehman/I don't know but I would have to think that from you know if we're really going to partner this thing, if we're partners of the library board I would have to think that from the public's perspective that an effort to make the present facility last for another couple years or whatever to enable us to come up with a kind of operating (can't hear) you need would be extremely well received by the public as well as by us. And I guess I have some interest in seeing whether or not that is a possibility because I believe the larger project is a very good project. It's a project that needs time to incubate to develop to really be sold to the public. You know you look around the state bond issues have not been very successful around the state of Iowa not in the last several months. I guess I would feel better if we looked at, if that's a possibility, may not be. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 18 Kubby/A couple immediate reactions I have is that truly partnering the library we need to really hear from them and. Lehman/Obviously that's. Kubby/And all sitting around the table before we make declarations about direction that we want in terms of that timeline. Champion/Dean doesn't really want to talk about it, it's foolish, cause we really need to (can't hear) an event. Kubby/Except that they need a commitment from us as a partner for operating expenses. Lehman/I think your right. Kubby/Whether it's now or in the future and one of my large frustrations is that the library board has come to us over the years with a lot of different specific ideas and funding sources and we have said no that's not the game we want to play. You need to play it by our rules. Here's the space you have, that was not there, we went back and forth what the rules of the game were. They had to change their whole design because of our decision making at this table and we dictated where the money was going to come from. They kind of played by our rules of the game and it hasn't worked out that great in terms of tithing, in terms of design, in terms of money source. And so I don't want to wait until some private entity may or may not have a specific idea on how to use the public land and become a partner in that sense. I'm ready to say yes, there's a possibility you can have 64(1)a, you know your square footage. We need to give them a little more power in helping formulate the rule of the game because it hasn't been working out our way. And having to wait another couple years until the owners of whatever it's going to be or a Hilton, a Sheraton, whatever it's going to be. Have an idea and flush it out and form a parmership that could be forever, that could maybe never happen. Lehman/Well. Kubby/I'm ready to make a commitment to the library and let them have a little more, try it there way, maybe we should try it there way. Lehman/I don't disagree with that Karen except there was a commitment made 20 years ago to the present facility and because it was a little too much we took out the footings and now we have the problem that we have now. I believe that if there's This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 19 an opportunity to do something on that property that is both private and public and I don't think it's something you'll wait 2-3 years to come up with. If we can't put it together in a few months then you go on without it. But I do think we would be foolish at this point not to at least examine it. Kubby/But then it's too late to do the time frame that the library's interested in. Lehman/From my perspective, and you folks obviously have the same voice I do. I guess I would be willing to sit, I guess I'm at the point I'd like to hear what the library board has to say. (All talking). Kubby/What is our task? Thornberry/I don't know if we have a task. (All talking) Thornberry/The last six months we've had the task, the task, the question, to find the money for the library and I don't think that's true. I haven't been actively looking for money for the library for the last six months as you indicated. I don't think that's been our task. (All talking) Thornberry/You know I was not hanging my hat and you weren't either on the sales tax passing and I you know if you felt that strongly that the sales tax was going to, was not going to pass. Then you should have been looking for that money a long time before that. Kubby/And I was. Norton/She suggested that, she wanted to do a contingent but. Kubby/Thank you Dee. Thornberry/I wanted, I wanted the previous vote where by the library was separated from the rest of the sales tax proposal but that didn't come up come up either, I. Because they said then how do you fund it? You know if it were separate and it did pass, how do you fund it? Well we knew then we were having a problem, I don't think it's a big surprise but I don't think we've actively been searching for This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 20 money or we wouldn't have passed the budget that we did regarding the fire and the police department. O'Donnell/When is the survey coming? When is the library going to do the survey? Singerman/Well it starts, I think we have estimated four or five weeks, four or five weeks we should have. Thornberry/The answer was four to five weeks. Also Emie, maybe you know more than I do about who took the money out of the budget from the library to not have the supports for the second floor. The money wasn't there but who made the decision not to put the supports in, was it the council or the library? Lehman/I don't know. (can't hear). Thornberry/You kept said we and I talked to John Balmer and John Balmer said that they (can't hear). (All talking). Lehman/We as a community made that decision whether it was the council or the city engineer or library board or combination of all of them that was we, we did it and we made the mistake and now we got to be sure we don't do it again. It doesn't make any difference. Doesn't make any difference. (All talking). Vanderhoef/I think that' s the (can't hear). Lehman/I guess what I'd like to see us do is to hear from the library board next Monday what their proposal is. I think they know full well the difficulties that we are going to have coming up with money to funding it. I think they also know that there is a genuine interest on the part of the council to work with them. I mean is that a fair statement? Thomberry/What do you want to hear from the library board? Champion/I think we should have the meeting (can't hear) any of this discussion. Vanderhoef/Well I have one more concern. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 21 Thomberry/OK, that would say open up, OK we can cut a fireman and a policeman. What would they? (all talking) Norton/I don't think that's their call that way. Thornberry/You know what would they need to say for you to? Lehman/Do you know what they'd like to do? Thomberry/Yes. Lehman/What? Thornberry/They want to expand the library and it's services and it's going to cost more in people any expansion is going to cost more people. And I don't think their going to come up with a plan. Lehman/Is this a new building or an expansion? Thornberry/(can't hear) It doesn't matter even if it's a branch library, it's still going to cost more people. Lehman/Well I think that' s true. O'Donnell/I think so. Thornberry/If it does cost more people, we don't want to hear from them that it's expanding is not going to cost more people. Vanderhoef/I like that. Thornberry/I do too but it's not going to happen. Norton/But the question is still where are we get some operating expenses? And I, that new (can't hear) is clearly our task ever since we didn't get a sales tax vote it's been clear to the tax, if your going to support library expansion and/or replacement whichever it may be, you've got to come up with some operating expenses and were pretty good. We know this a fine eyed world fight here guys and it's kind of a zero sum game given the way for my advice so. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 22 Vanderhoef/Well for me. Norton/We've got to make some cuts somewhere and I don't want to put the money on people's back ifthat's why I'm there. Suppose the police originally were asking for 40 what is that, hey that's fine. And then you eliminate, but they could have said pick a number. O'Donnell/Let's suppose (can't hear). Norton/I mean. O'Donnell/Expansion Dee, that's not. Norton/The library is going to have to be stranded and we understand that their going to have to restrain their personnel in the expansion and they've already acknowledged that. They've got to contribute to this but then so does everybody and I don't want to pick on anybody but we've got to find some, either we've got to do that or we can't do anything, we're just saying (can't hear). Thomberry/No, we're not saying that now, they can operate just fine. Norton/Shut down this effort to try to replace. Lehman/Right, Dee. Vanderhoef/Number one I appreciate the idea that we're going to have a survey. For me that answer some questions on which way I'm headed. However, a meeting on Monday without answers from the survey I think is sort of spinning my wheels. Thornberry/Premature. Vanderhoef/It's premature, thank you for that word. The second part of this whole issue for me is that yes the city owns 64(1)a, however it was part of an early renewal project and it was there for an economic development kind of thing. So with the new owners that are in the adjacent property, before I make any kind of decisions and talk about specific project I'd like to have a little more discussion and a little more information on what that might look like. Then I think we can go forward with how we can do this. For me November doesn't seem like a feasible kind of timing at all. I know historically we all have know and we put the library onto the sales tax vote because we could not see the money available in the general fund along with the other needs of the city. And as much as we want a library we have lots of needs in the city and some of these needs have been sitting there and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 23 waiting if you will their turn, 27 years is a long time for a new firefighters, and now that the city is growing and we are opening up new areas I'm not willing to change the fire station, it is a need and it needs to be done now. We've had citizens who ask us to have more police presence downtown, we all see this need for more police and so we're going to go forward with that. This is no surprise that we have a tight budget but I want to put our thinking in order. We need to have a conversation with urban renewal, property, we need to have the survey of the citizens, and then we need to have our meeting. Kubby/What if that switching that time frame around though cause I what your suggestion makes to me that the private sector that's going to be the engine driving of the project and I want it to be the public sector, I want it to be us. And the needs of the library which I definitely see as an economic development tool you know itself it is the star attraction or the broadest number of people and that I don't mind seeing how the hotel can be a part of the project if they can fit our project and our time frame that we are the driving engine behind that and they instead of slowing us down they can speed up, they have the resources if they think this is economically feasible and a good idea they can speed up their process instead of us waiting for them. We've been waiting and waiting and waiting, we've said this is a community value, it's a community need, it's something we support, expansion of library services, they may disagree the form of that but why don't we be the driving engine behind that question and ask the private sector to catch up with us. Norton/Yea. Kubby/And I'm all for hearing what they have to say. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Lehman/Let's do that something. O'Donnell/Yea, I'd like to (can't hear). Thornberry/Fine, (can't hear). O'Donnell/No, you were my suggestion. End of 99-56 Side 1 (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 24 Vanderhoef/The red light respite. Lehman/Yellow light. Champion/That's what they have in Cedar Rapids though. Vanderhoef/I know they do. Thomberry/Well their a little more progressive (can't hear). O'Donnell/(can't hear) council (can't hear). Atkins/First of all spoke to the last couple of days I've talked I think to each of you in one way shape or form about this project. And I've also reminded each of you that the senior center is just as much a part of the decision smaller but that has to be considered also. And I would like, first thing I would like to do is city council, library board and senior, center commission, I need a promise from you, you will not hand me my head if I make any proposals today that you will simply quietly reject them or something or move on because I've tried to listen to everybody and Emie I apologize I didn't share this with you. Lehman/That's all right. Atkins/It's something I've been puttsing around with the last couple of days because quite frankly I was growing sick of debate and thought I'd write something down. I think we have to have certain admissions to our self. And our self is the collective of the city government. We don't have enough money to do all we want, and we simply have to say we simply do not have enough money to do all the things we want to do. And that this is a very frustrating issue because when I talk to you all of the things you want to do are very positive and upbeat and you may disagree among yourselves as far as a political position. But their all intended to be in the best interest of the community I don't think there's any doubt about that, you may disagree on how to get there but the motive is genuine. We had a tax increase proposal and the critical term here is tax increase it was defeated and we're here debating another tax increase and I have to tell yourself are you willing to accept a tax increase? Is that any of the subtle underlying I don't want to pursue this project because it's going to be more taxes. Because if your not willing to accept that then we might as well fold our tent and go along about our business because there's no reason to proceed. The tax increase proposal that we put forth last time was pursued by the council in a very luke warm fashion. We didn't all jump on board, put me in there with you as your support. And if we don't aggressively pursue proposal in the future and tell the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 25 public we think it's necessary and important then I don't think it's going to go anywhere either. So that first question I ask of you is are you willing to accept a tax increase? And if the answer is yes we can go on. Kubby/Yes. Norton/Yea, but you better. Atkins/No more but, no you do not get to say but. Thornberry/Your gonna say. Atkins/Yes or no. Norton/How about the magnitude of the tax increase (can't hear)? Atkins/Yes or no, we'll fine tune it the answer is yes. Norton/(can't hear) I mean debt service come (can't hear). Atkins/Absolutely that is a taxing yes, because I've heard from some you that no I'm not going to pull anything over a tax payer. I'm trying to you know I'm saying I've heard seven of you tell me seven things and some good, some bad, some different some whatever but if your not going to accept a tax increase we should just pack this in. Thornberry/I can't, I can't accept a tax increase. Lehman/Well let's proceed. Atkins/No were not we've only got two fight now. Kubby/Not till four people saying that. Lehman/Well I think oh I. Atkins/Yes or no. Lehman/Yes, I think we have to, we have to pursue the, we have to pursue. Atkins/You have to accept the fact that this is a tax increase. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 26 Lehman/The expansion of the library and if that means a tax increase the public is going to tell us whether they want their taxes increased. That is there. Norton/Your willing to put it before them. Lehman/Absolutely. Norton/And admit it. Lehman/And that is their choice. Thornberry/I can't. Atkins/OK, that's OK, that's all right. Kubby/So that' s three. Vanderhoef/Oh yea you can put it on. Lehman/All right good. (All talking). Atkins/Put it on and someone else to decide the tax increase if were not going to be supportive of the project and supportive of the tax increase don't put it on. I've got to say your. Norton/(can't hear) The public fight. Thornberry/Talk about costing a lot for the Iowa City (can't hear). Atkins/And Dean I'm not arguing with you I need a no and you gave me a no and that's OK. Thornberry/I haven't heard from them yet. Lehman/Well that' s all fight, is that a yes or no. O'Donnell/The tax increase is very difficult for me especially after the resounding defeat of the local option sales tax. Atkins/Which was a tax increase. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 27 O'Donnell/But I think the responsible thing to do is put it on the ballot and let the people tell us. Atkins/Well then based on that you should do all of your budgeting the same way and throw the whole thing up for grabs and we'll vote on this, and vote on this and vote on this. Kubby/Put it the ballot and we're willing to work for it. Norton/That's I think the thing put it on there enthusiastically because otherwise if your in trouble I think. Atkins/Folks understanding that during this discussion that I would hope would follow you and you will have some opportunity to comment on it but if your not willing to, this is a tax increase, no matter how it shakes out if you if this is just what the public gets to vote on. Norton/Yep. Thornberry/Your elected, your elected to raise the taxes, keep them the same, get a new library and all it's saving what you haven't said. O'Donnell/You must not have talked to the people who voted then. (All talking). O'Donnell/I am not an advocate for higher property taxes and I think but we're saying by this that we are. We're saying we're going to increase taxes Norton/We're thinking it's a virtue (can't hear). O'Donnell/And I have trouble doing that. Lehman/What we're saying is that we believe that the virtue of a new library is greater than the detriment of the city's taxes, that's what we're really saying. And giving the public something that we feel that is good for this community, and we have to pay for it. O'Donnell/I am not supportive of increase property taxes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 28 Kubby/Well then you shouldn't increase the debt levy either or any other (can't hear) liability level or any other. (All talking). Atkins/Folks I've only got three so far. Norton/Here we go again. Atkins/It's a painful question, but you all yourself every time you make budget decisions. When you chose to do that 4-year 40 million dollar capitol debt plan for all those capitol projects you substantially tax increase. Kubby/That's right. Atkins/Now, and I'm saying is that we need to call it what it is is that the local option sales tax tax was defeated. In defeating that tax all of these projects fell. I don't care how you look at it, you can say well I voted against the library, no I voted for the library but I'm against the tax you know, I don't think that means a whole heck of a lot. Legislatively one of the biggest things you do as a legislative body is you decide that tax rate. Legally you can have a referendum on this tax increase for the library and not increment. I mean you have that power. If you felt, that's my point, you have a great deal of power when it comes to increasing taxes. Norton/But I just want to reiterate it's not a matter of asking people what they think that' s very tricky to do depends on how the questions worded. We have to do as Emie said weigh the virtues of this need right against the cost it takes to accomplish and that's one I'm certainly willing to do. Atkins/Yes, that's the virtue of a new fire station, and additional police officers and a new recreation person because we've added miles of trails. You in your budget process said we don't like an assistant fire marshal, you took that out, that's OK. And you added a new parks and recreation person for what reason, a commitment to trails, now lord knows we've had enough trail debates on this. The bottom line is that you may have priority question is that if you had not funded that parks and recreation person that would have had a bearing on the tax rate, the tax increase. Folks you've just got to admit to what it is. Vanderhoef/We just redid our capitol projects because the tax rate was going to be more than what we thought it was going to be acceptable to our constituents. Lehman/Or to us. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 29 Vanderhoef/We have had a tax voted down, we are seeing a climate that Ernie referred to which is true that several tax issues in surrounding counties have gone down. Political climate may tell us that we need to wait another year to. Atkins/I didn't get that. Champion/The serious time when it's been up to the compliant that's been in favor of tax increases. (All talking) Kubby/There are a lot. No, I don't agree with that. Champion/Three years ago, four years ago, six years ago we found out. (can't hear). Atkins/All the capitol projects you approved were based upon virtue. At least words. Kubby/Yes, and all those tax referendums that failed were all sales tax. Norton/Yea, they were. Kubby/I should (can't hear). Champion/Karen there are have been many judges of libraries for schools for any facility. Kubby/I'm talking about recent a missing geographic area in the last six months. (All talking). Atkins/Well and I Karen but I would say to you the tax increase is a tax increase the bottom line is the state that's all the option they gave you. Norton/That's fight. Atkins/And more of property, that's not your folk, that's all the choice you had. And the same with the schools those were (can't hear) as a sales tax. The state has clear policy you want to increase taxes folks you've got to use the sales. We choose not to. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 30 Champion/(can't hear) the back of the library in sales tax maybe if we had put, (can't hear) I mean our hindsight's always good if we just put the library, cultural center or and the water rates on the ballot for the sales taxes then we also pay for it's over with. I mean (can't hear) hindsight's always. Lehman/Well. Atkins/OK let me try another question for you. Champion/The fact is that there's never a time for tax increase. Atkins/Let me try another question. Norton/I think it's important to look at the virtue of the taxes. Lehman/All fight let's let Steve go. Atkins/Let me try another question. Norton/Did you get an answer to that? Atkins/No, I do not, No, you do not have (can't hear). (All talking) Thornberry/(can't hear) the majority you (can't hear). Atkins/I've counted one, two and maybe, three. Lehman/Karen you've got three. Thornberry/You've got one, two three, four and five. Atkins/All fight stop we're done. Thornberry/(can't hear). Norton/No, it was just five. Atkins/OK, now, well it may change to something else later on but the point is don't proceed unless you understand the consequences of your decision and the consequences of your decision is tax increase. That's acceptable now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 31 Norton/Taxes are. Atkins/You'll all get your crack at what you think is a good or bad project but the point is that we just have to be realistic about cause we've got to move on. And your discussion fight now is something you'll have to give some thought to the fact that this is what I'm told to luke warm support thing is starting again. So you've got to think about that. We don't need to decide that at this moment. And again I'm sensitive to your frustrations, you have in front of you a request from two boards, not just one, we spent our time on the library but the library wants something and the senior center want something. Both of which are requests to you that cost money, those of which involve operating funds. You understand that, there's not doubt about that. You have tucked away in your memory banks policies and visions and goals and all this kinds of things that are at stake with respect to these issues. For example, expansion of the library in my judgment is part of the downtown strategy to create a destination point whether you agree or disagree we draw people downtown that's a strategy. A balanced budget is not only a strategy it's a matter of law, you folks are going to balance the budget. Only the feds can get away with not doing those kinds of things, they just print more money and things are taken care of. We don't have that availability. Norton/Not quite that true. Atkins/Well. Kubby/Local currency. Norton/(can't hear). Atkins/And you also need to tell yourself and I will just $8.10, $8.10 it grows at a rate of about 4 percent a year, that's what you've got available to you to operate all the services, all the good ideas that each and everyone of you have. So the more you squeeze that $8.10 the less you have with respect to any potential for future initiative, anywhere on anything. So understand that as you make commitments, whether it be library, senior center or something else that continues to narrow, and of course we are then again with respect to policy, we all know what the state can or can't do as kind of whatever mood their in. Come the 291h, all bets might be off, 291h of June, the constitutional amendment passes, there are those that will argue that that has no direct bearing on property tax, I say to them bologna. The state's history is such that if they want something done and they don't have the money to do it, their going to kick it to local governments and make you do it. And I wouldn't count on a whole lot more money. OK. I want to give you a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 32 proposal, I wrote this up the other day. That's where now I reiterate you not hanging my head, no one's not in yes. (All laughing). Norton/I don't want profits???? (All laughing and talking). Atkins/But would you give me some effort for C for courage, (can't hear). Lehman/How about we listen? Atkins/No it's not good enough Emie, your going to have to be. Lehman/That's all your going to get. Atkins/That's the best I'm going to get, here. What I did was try to listen to what everybody had to say and put something together that it allows the creation of a target. If you don't like pieces of it take it out. If you take something out you've got to realize you might have to substitute something else later on. First thing I would say to you. Thornberry/Thanks Connie. Atkins/Is that current operating budget 00, 01, 02 no change. Now remember how you plan the budget, your allowed to put together a three year plan but you can only appropriate one year at a time, that's law. So your spending commitment right now for all practical purposes is 00. The fire fighters for example and the planning for the fire station begins in 01, that's when we begin and that was a very deliberate decision because we made the assumption the roll back was not going to change dramatically so I want you to give yourselves a little room that the things go to hell in a hand basket we can back off some of those commitments. That' s fight up a stage, I think we, again I hopefully your nodding your recollections of those things. When we hired the police we got the grant. We used the grant to it's fullest extent possible. We projected the use of tort liability which you all understand, the audience may not, it takes a commitment on the $8.10, put it's into tort liability, free some room in the tort then you can fence some raw general (can't hear) with that. So I'm telling you, take a look at the current budget you just adopted and leave it alone. Secondly, let's not forget we have to submit the library addition renovation to a referendum. The public will make a decision about on point 2 just about how the project is framed. I mean This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 33 that's the law, you got to set it, it's a 60 percent majority you must, the issue of when I'm not worrying about at the time being. I just like to set that aside for a minute. The survey came up as a reasonably new issue and I mean not that I was unaware, Susan and I had talked about it. It appears to be a strong commitment on part of the board and evidently council has some interest in it, that may shape some of these decisions but for the time being I've got to set that aside. Because I would suggest to you is that in the project, and I haven't said what the project is, fight now the slate's clean, we keep some sort of an auditorium, public space, meeting rooms, I don't care what you call it as a part of it. Not unlike what we have now in the library project, Room A, B. Kubby/C. Atkins/C. Those fancy names that we have for those rooms. Let some component be built into the project that is auditorium, meeting space, community, you understand what I'm saying and you'll see why in a moment. Secondly, that you reserve a portion of 64(1 )a, that's a direction to the library in their project planning, that you believe as a city council that there is a potential that the hotel may choose to expand and if they choose to expand, now whether it's hotel rooms or convention space or I don't know. But you need to reserve at least a portion of 64(1)a. And I don't have, I do not have a recommendation for you on that, I'm not saying keep it all, but at least a portion of it yet to be decided. Norton/(can't hear). Atkins/Get dirty. The bottom, that space that one acre called 64(1)a a piece of it is set aside most likely that would just immediately adjacent to the hotel for the potential for that hotel to expand. Norton/Wouldn't they include expansion on the second floor? Atkins/No, no, I just don't know. My point is the dirt, that piece of ground there, in years I've been here and I'm sure most of you we've all talked at one time or another about something on that space. It's not going to remain a parking lot forever, it's entirely too valuable. Third point, the library in the planning of their project would be obligated to provide for the cost of their project basically within their current budget. Normal inflation adjustments. So you all as a council, the library cooperates with us just like every other operating department, they take the same hits when we reduce things, payroll and so their budget is just as snug as everyone else's. But you would direct them, and the reason that I'm proposing this is that that could have an impact on the design of the project. I may have used this term but Susan and I have called it the "nooks and cranny's", if you start This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 34 spreading buildings out all over where. It's harder to manage. They've got you all trapped in four walls, usually you can get by with fewer supervisors or staff folks. But the library and their project planning would have to come back and tell you there are things if this is approved, if this is built we won't do. Not the rest of the organization, the library specifically. That's very painful, because in effect your saying expand it, improve it and not make it as available possibly. But I think you need to consider those options. Just like you would consider those options for the other departments. Here's the things we won't be doing. What's more important? Kubby/But we're not saying that's (can't hear) important. Atkins/I'm, I'm this is Steve telling you, you guys, if you don't like this, draw a line through it. Fourth, under the state law there's something called a operational property tax for a civic center. Now I need to explain this. This complex that we're in today we call the civic center. It is not a civic center by law, it is a city hall. Civic centers by definition are Auditorium's, meeting rooms, things of that nature, and you have the authority to levy up to 13.5 cents for the operations, and I'll just read it specifically, "For operations and maintenance of city owned civic center" under that definition. Why I flagged that is that the meeting room component of a library project if designed satisfactorily to meet the proper definition can be covered it's operating cost and you have the debt kick ability. Lehman/Steve, Atkins/Yes. Lehman/You said operating costs? Atkins/Yes. Lehman/OK. Atkins/Operations and maintenance, so if Room A. Thomberry/13 cents comes from where? Atkins/Property taxes. (People talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 35 Atkins/Right, it's a property tax increase. Each time you see the little star next to an item, that's a property tax increase in my judgment. Lehman/It's an all star chart. Atkins/It's an all star chart. Norton/Steve, that's not the cultural thing? Atkins/No, no, no, it's a different, it's a very small levy, it amounts to about $200,000 dollars a year, but the meeting room component of a project, an auditorium you have the ability to finance the operations of that by way of a 13.5 cent, it's not a lot. Norton/(can't hear) library do you? Vanderhoef/OK. Atkins/Now, remember. Vanderhoef/Do you have to vote on? Atkins/You do not have to vote on this. Vanderhoef/City council. Atkins/The city council has authority to levy 13.5 cents, now I do not have the formal opinions from our council on this, not Eleanor, but Ken Haynie but this is as he explained it, Don nod your head yes, that's what we understood, OK. If your not willing to do that then take the auditorium meeting room component out of the equation and you have to go back and say if there will be meeting rooms in the library and you'll have to fund that operationally, but that seems to put a greater demand. The operations of meeting room A, for example, have a cost, if we can transfer some of that cost under this that improves our position. Third point. Norton/You wouldn't have to do all 13.5, you could do some piece of it? Atkins/Yes, up to, 13.5 cents is about $250,000 a year, so I mean it's a hefty piece of change. Senior center policy, I think you make, need to make a policy decision that it will remain downtown. Your not moving the center out of downtown, the same downtown strategy that I used for the library the senior center should be part of downtown. We do not have additional space available now. Senior dining and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 36 others must be told they have to make do. Now here's where it will get a little dicey. Kubby/Will you move that up just a little. Atkins/Whoops I'm sorry. Will the county to continue to support the senior center to the tune of 20 percent of their budget or about $100,000 dollars a year? That's a Connie and Dee question because they could take a hike and you know what that does? That's a $100,000 problem for the $8.10 levy, because that's an income to the general fund, that means it would have to be transferred if you are to continue the current staffing and general services at the senior center. Second floor or a piece of the second floor of the ramp would be leased and not sold with the intent as potential for future expansion. As a side we're going to have a hard time leasing and selling if you've got a band playing in one of the rooms your going to have to make a commitment that it's intended for, try to find a, peaceful. ??woman/(can't hear). Atkins/(can't hear) But finally and I find and Linda and I have a lot of very good discussions about this and I think to her credit she's on top of this issue. We're going to have to resolve the program policy at the center, that it is changing, where it's going to go, how we're going to get their are a number of issues but sort of the bottom line is it's young seniors that we're dealing with. Fourth point, storm water, we will GO debt wherever practical because we have loads of debt margin, we're healthy in that. It's going to become a major environmental initiative and that I understand from you that your willing to commit to some sort of utility fee to cover that cost not the general fund, the $8.10 levy. Lehman/Steve that GO debt were (can't hear) for storm water is going to continue to add to the portion of our (can't hear) to use to retire debt. Atkins/That's right. Lehman/You know I think the present budget is up like 22 percent in the third year. Atkins/Yep. Lehman/The library it's up to 27-28 percent and this is adding to that already, and somewhat burden some. Atkins/Yep, that's correct. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 37 Lehman/OK. Norton/What are you talking, using fees for this (can't hear). Atkins/I'm saying now, you will not be able to, what I've read you will not be able to generate sufficient income and a fee. Lehman/Right, right. Atkins/Without it being really really painful. Champion/You mean we ought to, we're already (can't hear). Atkins/This is new. Vanderhoef/This is new. Atkins/By federal law you must undertake a major new environmental initiative and to my judgment that' s called storm water management process. Champion/But we're talking about this is linear or. Atkins/We're doing about $500,00 a year fight now. Champion/So beyond that $500,000? Atkins/Yes. The bottom line for you all is that if we make these commitments remember your going to continue to close your door on future flexibility, you've got to think about that. I think realistically thinking the library is going to have to generate income, the library's probably going to have to ask for less and you ultimately will have to come up with something from our general operating budget. But I think the exercise and laying out for you what might be the consequences operationally for the library does not make it politically acceptable when it comes to trying to sell the referendum issue. But I think we have to be practical about it again to the library staffs credit their bottom line was we never to intended to make up our project on the back's of other people and I think to that they need to be commended. But we need to see what it, for example, I suggested to Susan and I would ask the press to be gentle, maybe we should close on Sundays. Well immediate reaction was, that's one of our most popular days, don't do that, don't do that. That' s OK. But if you do that that generates some staff resources that you might use somewhere else. There are those are the kinds of things I think we need to they need to think thorough and build an operational plan into their capitol This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 38 plan so they fit together so that you have something to decide to work from. And find out what, and they may give you options which they say we can't recommend it but it is an option. And I think that's something you have to see. And we will have to do the same within our operational budget also. That's all I got. Thomberry/I, they're not suggesting that they close on Sunday to find their money? Atkins/Yes, I'm not saying that it's a suggestion, I'm saying it that is a kind of thing that Susan and her staff are going to have to work through. In other words I need to generate income, maybe I need to raise a fee. Maybe I need to do a portion of the library is not available on Sunday. I don't, I don't know Dean, I mean I defer to Susan on those kinds of things. Thornberry/That's just an option that they have. It's an option that they use. Atkins/I'm simply saying. Thornberry/A lot of people, a lot of people remember when they didn't, when they wanted their budget increased. Atkins/I understand that. Thomberry/When they started closing to blackmail the city council (can't hear) their budget, cause a lot of people remember that. Atkins/Well I don't think we should lay that off to Susan. Thomberry/No, no, I'm not, and I'm just saying. (All talking). Norton/Steve. Atkins/All fight folks what I'm going to do is create a target for you. If you like it fine, if not fine, we need to peck away some. Norton/Steve let me try find, I understand your target, are you saying that the library is whatever new (can't hear) date is suppose to swallow all the additional operating expenses? Atkins/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 39 Norton/Now, to characterize the kind of effort that (can't hear) in other words to get this (can't hear). To try to characterize this they want somebody else's back, every department is to some extent you know goring somebody's else's off, because it goes here or there or there. I don't think it's true or fair to characterize the library as riding on anybody's back to. Atkins/That's just my point, that I am NOT characterizing that, I do NOT want to be the case. Norton/Well it is in the sense if your there you have to swallow all the entries. I am saying that if they want to expand they have to have a way to attack the issue, this is a way to attack. Kubby/Free conversation going on. Norton/I guess when you say they have to have a way we have to have a way. Atkins/I guess my response to you would be then reject that component and then you go back to your operational debate because that's where that's what's left. Kubby/In terms of the library section, I'm personally very hesitant to add an auditorium to it. Atkins/OK. Kubby/Because even though I think there might be a lot of good uses of that auditorium I think we need to have this topic focused on library services that we traditionally think of which includes the meeting rooms. Atkins/That's OK, sure. Kubby/I think it's too much taking a component of the community events center and putting it onto the library and that that's not politically a wise choice to make at this point. As well as the additional property tax increase that we'd make a decision now so to take that 13 ½ cents off. And I think saying you have to absorb a hundred percent of increased operations is tinrealistic and that within two years we're going to see the library coming back for additional staff and I just don't think that's realistic. So I would take auditorium out of the 13 ½ cents out and I don't mind whose being portioned for (can't hear) sanction I think that's a fine parameter to put on a library so that when they come back with a design that they know what kind of space they have to work with on (can't hear). And I don't This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 40 mind saying that instead of $180 you have a $100,000 dollars for increased operation funds. Lehman/I'd like to get their reaction to this personally. I'd like to know what they think of it. Atkins/I do think you need to spend a few minutes kind of just doing what Karen just did, a little bit of discussion because there is something that is flat out unacceptable folks to let them make them go to all the work of. Lehman/The auditorium is a bad work, I do think that it needs to be sufficient meeting space, I think it would be a big mistake to build a new library without some friendly substantial meeting spaces. Norton/And that might go toward meeting rooms and if it's distinct from (can't hear). Atkins/As I, As I understand if we, if it's intended to be a civic component and the civic component means public gathering, public gathering to me means such as meeting rOOmS. Norton/(cant hear). Atkins/The auditorium's seem to be something. Lehman/Net word??? Atkins/Well but the auditorium is specifically identified in the law, and remember we can only shake it so many ways until we get ourselves in a jam. Room A if it had risers could ultimately be convened to some sort of a auditorium. Lehman/That's not an auditorium now? Atkins/No. Norton/I would like to find a compromise, I think that that some adding the meeting rooms are very are crucial to the way the library operates and the role it plays in people's lives in this community is absolutely critical now, you don't want to (can't hear) agree with that maybe to avoid that but, and I don't think there would be any need perhaps to use the whole 13.5 cents either but some small portion of that to try to fund the flexibility into this space we're talking about is would seem to me to be a wise move so my ballot lists some changes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 41 Lehman/Well Steve if we did that, if the library decided to do that to have. Atkins/What is that Ernie? Lehman/I'm talking about the meeting rooms as you have inappropriately laid an auditorium and we were to use a portion of that 13 ½ cent levy to fund the operation of those rooms I would assume that we probably aren't going to be such tremendous accountants that probably part of that 13 ½ cent or a portion of what we use would be used for made to be a little spill over. Kubby/No we would have to be good. Atkins/I will NOT. (All talking) Atkins/No way will I comment on that (can't hear). Lehman/On the way to the meeting room he runs the vacuum down the hall. Atkins/There is no reason why if your building a library of some consequence or any kind of public building you could make cost centers, I mean (can't hear). Lehman/Even augment the total budget. Norton/But it does cost something to rent those rooms doesn't it? Atkins/There's not doubt about that, I mean room A is far away, probably the most popular room that we have in our community and with respect to it's use. O'Donnell/Why don't we charge money to use it? Lehman/We don't charge anything. O'Donnell/We don't charge anything, (can't hear). Atkins/Because we want to encourage the use. Norton/But I think it would be a good selling point to say we have something like that in (can't hear) and have a little bit of money to make that really effective and also to make that room you know really help contribute to the viability of the whole, I think it's a great idea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 42 Lehman/That could be used for operations to any of that money, could any of that money be used for capitol? Atkins/Operations and maintenance of a city owned civic center. Lehman/OK. Atkins/It doesn't say a thing about debt service. Vanderhoef/So that could be also in the planning stage of new space versus present space. Atkins/Yes. Vanderhoef/And present space could be reorganized into whatever. Atkins/We could get into a project plan, one of the things that crossed my mind was Room A, Susan you'll have to help me on check outs and all that sort of business because that has to be regulated. Room A in effect becomes library space, and the meeting room component is something added on. And I'm just dealing now with raw square footage where I got a little sight foot printed of the library and doodled with the thing trying to say how can we do that. And I'm not so sure, we'll have to have somebody professionally tell us that. But I was trying to find when Susan and I have talked about this this has been very clear that meeting rooms are an important part of the vitality, the livelihood of a library. And it should be planned in if we can plan it in and take advantage of this, that's why I'm trying to do. Lehman/I agree with Karen, I don't think it's possible, I shouldn't say possible. The likelihood of being able to operate an expanded facility on the same budget is kind of revolt. I think would have to have some augmentation from us and I don't know to what degree but that's there would have to be something (can't hear). Norton/Might have to up their share and cut somebody else's, I'd like to too, I think we've got to find some help. Lehman/Well obviously I think it would be wonderful to try to do as much as possible, but I do think we'd have to be prepared to help. Atkins/Well I think I've indicated that but I think that if your going to think through your project sometimes you have to tell yourself I'm going to make this, this is going to be very painful. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 43 Lehman/Oh, I think it is already. Atkins/As painful as it is it also allows you to think through what I'm going to keep is truly important to me, and what I had a little extra on later on is really kind of nice to have and I think that's an exercise and I doubt that that the library staff on occasion has taken them through that exercise. Lehman/One of the things I like about this, and frankly is where I'm coming from, I really really do not feel that I could favor a change in the budget that we've gone through and I think we did a good job on that budget. I don't think there's anything in there that needs to come out. I do think because of the timing of this even if the referendum would be on a ballot this fall which I don't think it should be but if it were and did pass we would become, it would be so close to the end of our budgeting period anyway that it would almost work so for that reason I really wouldn't I don't favor changing the budget. I think we did too much work on that and I think it works out too well. Kubby/So those last two statements you made seem to be in contradiction that if you think that the library would need some additional operations your just saying you'd find it in a different (can't hear). Lehman/Well see, because of the timing first of all, the timing is such that if this goes on in November which I personally really don't think it would. But if it did it would impact the last six months of the current budgets that we have gone through. If it didn't go pass until the following year it would be the second but six months of the year budget year that we haven't even worked on yet. Norton/But none of this suggestion may have to do with present budget, it would stay in tact. Lehman/No it wouldn't. Norton/It would go into effect until a year from now. Lehman/The present budget though goes three years. Norton/Yea, I understand but the out years can certainly be ratified. Atkins/Ernie, the present budget is a three-year plan, remember by law you can only appropriate only one year at a time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 44 Norton/We would have to rethink it only in January. Atkins/I read Dee's comment saying something to the effect if we have 75 authorized personnel today by the year 03 I want you to have 73. Norton/74. Atkins/Whatever the number, my point is that that's you know, if we know where we're going we can get there for you, but the bottom line is it's still is less than what you have today. Lehman/There's another factor that we haven't considered, of course we haven't seen a plan, I don't think there is a plan yet. But if the library is to propose a separate facility which I strongly suspect it will, there will be in the total equation the disposition of the present property, rental, sale whatever and that obviously has an impact on the total project too. Atkins/And that's not in the cards. Lehman/What do you mean in the cards? Atkins/That is probably a major expense, I don't know what your going to do with it but it would likely have to be renovated. Is it going to go back on the tax roles, is it going to be renovated for office, commercial, I mean those are decisions of some consequence and big bucks. Lehman/But it's also. Atkins/If your asking us to rent it as a public facility. Norton/No, no. Atkins/That's (can't hear). (All talking). Lehman/(can't hear) for a fee that's part of the total equation, that's why I say we're being asked to talk about things that we don't really have, we don't have a proposal that says that the building is going to be available or isn't going to be available, we don't know what it's going to cost to renovate the building, if we're going to sell it or lease it or whatever. And I think we're being asked philosophically do we support the library, yea I think we consider we do. Do we, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 45 are we willing to put our name on the line for X number of dollars right now? I don't think we are until we get a proposal. Atkins/Ernie and I mean this with all do respect. Lehman/OK here we go. Atkins/Here we go. It's easy to say I support the library. Vanderhoef/Absolutely. Atkins/It's almost too easy. We've got to decide, I think we we owe it to them to give them some direction on what is acceptable and assuming on the 17th so that these folks can get back to work and putting together a plan that is acceptable to you. Remember we unanimously unanimously if I recall supported over College Street adding on 64(1)a, everybody thought it was a great idea that's cool. Well it didn't make it. And please don't forget the senior center. I mean these are two two of the boards and commissions are having lopped it back in your lap to say what's acceptable to you? Vanderhoef/What is acceptable to me is adding tax for the storm water utility and to put fees on that and that is a tax, I recognize that. Atkins/Yep. Vanderhoef/This is unfunded mandate that is coming down from the feds, we have to meet these guidelines, no not guidelines, rules. Atkins/Rules is better. Vanderhoef/We have to meet the rules. So number one for me that's the only way that I see that we can pay for this is to add that tax on because I don't see how our 8-10 fund is ever going to continue to support storm water (can't hear). So that's that's a new tax, that's a new increase on property tax for everybody. Norton/When you say add the tax is that just a fee? Vanderhoef/If we want a fee. Norton/Yea it (can't hear). Vanderhoef/But it is a tax, it's. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 46 Norton/Yea, a fee's good. Vanderhoef/Yea, for everyone who owns property they will have a tax on them because their going to pay for there storm water. Norton/But you your confuse me, but they will have a fee fight, but their tax may go up because of some of capitol projects that have to be funded. (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Well that's from GO in there too yes. Atkins/Well I mean the fee and tax, the bottom line is it costs money. Norton/The fee then is possible. Atkins/Costs more. Vanderhoef/And there could be both. Norton/Fees and taxes. Vanderhoef/Fees and taxes, OK. The next one that I could go forward with is I could go forward with leasing some space in the ramp for possible future expansion of senior center. I can not go forward fight now with the tax of the 13 ½ cents until I see a little bit more I'm not ready to commit to that property tax piece. Norton/Steve, the senior center thing, the question of expansion on the senior dining downtown and it's pretty clear that the county (can't hear) stay there. Atkins/OK. Norton/And you know earlier in earlier lives the SEATS use to be there and it's gone and daycare was there and it's gone. I would hate to see the senior dining leave there I think one of the reasons it's a virtue but the rest of the space is accommodated. Now, space in the ramp is for sale I take it? Atkins/Sure. Norton/As well as possibly for these fight? Well option is good? Atkins/Well, your current policy position is all the space in the ramp is to be sold. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 47 Norton/OK. So spaces are for sale fight OK. But something might get worked out that if some expansion of some component of senior dining or relocation of some component be denied. Atkins/Sure. Norton/Into that space which would flee up some space in the center and might ifthat's a possibility I would hope that would not be ignored, and I think it's consistent with this that. Atkins/I think it makes sense to me. Norton/Yea. Atkins/To have tickets be levied back to the county you have to do that. But I think your right I have no trouble with that. Champion/I think the council makes two general statements. One is they would be (can't hear) purchasing, purchasing last in the ramp. (Can't hear) dining since we're not going to give them an expansion room. The second thing I think they suggested was the senior dining needs a share (can't hear) their not interested in a share. Norton/Well I think that's a that's their major interest in the senior center is senior dining and so maybe we can get both things solved here it wouldn't wouldn't be as much as the senior commission would like to have but it would be better than a knock in the head. Lehman/Anything is better than a knock in the head. Champion/Well maybe a knock in the head. (All talking) Atkins/You promised you would not hand me my head OK. Norton/(Can't hear) I want to get that is a crucial and I think a lot of people. End of 99-56 Side 2 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 48 Norton/And doesn't fall in some indirect way on the library's restrain staffing which is clearly another thing we're saying here that they've got to restrain their staffing very substantially. Champion/Are you next? Thomberry/No, I can't get past (can't hear). Lehman/You already past (can't hear) so we're not going (can't hear). Thornberry/And you know I wouldn't like and I've said from day one that I would like a branch library. I would like a branch library in one form or another and I know that that's going to take more personnel, I know that. So begrudgingly I will forego at this time. Norton/Does that mean it may be different (can't hear)? What are you going to forego? Thomberry/The branch, my branch. But reluctantly I'll let go of my branch because I'm unable to save the I don't want additional property taxes to go for that through this (can't hear) period. Kubby/How about a reading room at the new fire station? Lehman/There you go. Thornberry/You've got one, it's called the fireman's lounge or whatever. Lehman/No, we're talking the new fire station, we're talking about some public (can't hear). Thornberry/Like to see something somewhere. Lehman/Yes, what we're talking about. Thornberry/And I would. Atkins/And their not any bigger in dips more likelihood of a referendum occurs. Norton/I still think Dean. Atkins/I think it's community Andy is very supportive of making it, but we've got to be realistically, it's primary purpose is for emergency response. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 49 Lehman/That is correct. Atkins/And all the other staff is really nice to have and I'll see if we can work it in, that's cool, we've talked about (can't hear) for police those sorts of things. Drop off your utility bills, I mean we'd do it. But let's. Thornberry/Where would you put the drop? Atkins/From the first principle, (can't hear). Lehman/All fight let's talk about a few things. First of all are there a majority of us who feel that probably a tax increase is going to be required if we move over the library, and we're willing to accept that? Except for (can't hear) Thomberry. Thomberry/No. Mrs. Vanderhoef also I think (can't hear) to increase the property taxes. Vanderhoef/No, I declined to increase the property tax on the 13 ½ cents at this point. Lehman/Forget the 13 V2 cents. (can't hear). Vanderhoef/That was one reason. Lehman/Well can you get past number 1 ? Vanderhoef/Can I get past number 1 ? Lehman/Yes. Vanderhoef/Not this year, add another year. Lehman/Is that a yes or a no? Thomberry/(can't hear) to vote. Lehman/That's a maybe, cause we've got an election this fall. Vanderhoef/Not this November I can't. Atkins/It is my plea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 50 Norton/He's not talking about that (can't hear) and any of these scenafio's there's an increase debt service and that's going to impact instead of taxing (can't hear) if your into zero taxing we might as well run home. Champion/How long are we going to have this worthless discussion? O'Donnell/Absolutely. Lehman/Not much longer. Do we pretty much agree with the senior center policy, is there, I mean we would have space that would be available for either purchase or lease for possible expansion but that's there no depth definitive plans to do that. O'Donnell/Yes. Champion/Yes. Norton/Yes. Kubby/As long as people are OK being a property owner, commercial property owner. Lehman/Well. Kubby/I don't want people later come back and have a (can't hear). Lehman/But the point of that is if you'd lease it, the lease payment you'd receive should be a large enough to recip. to recover the value of the property plus the taxes you would have recovered anyway. Kubby/But that's really the issue that some people have with that, I'm just. You know sometimes that stuff comes back around on us and then it kind of opens it up, I personally complain with that, that's (can't hear). Lehman/All fight, but I think the senior center passage is acceptable sort of thing? Thomberry/I'm not, I'm not. I'm not saying that the senior center couldn't expand somewhere somehow, I'm just saying that I cannot feel fight that that the portion that should be sold in the new parking ramp is not sold. I don't want to lease it, I don't want to be a landlord, a city landlord. I think that it we either build it and sell it or. Norton/Yea but. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 51 Kubby/That's a (can't hear). Thornberry/Well why not lease it? Lehman/Well but do you realize that the scenario is that perhaps let's just say we lease a portion of that for a five year period, at the end of five years and the lease comes up and we choose not to renew that lease. Thornberry/That's OK. Lehman/And we choose to turn that into a civic to the senior center property instead. Thornberry/I don't think that will happen. I think once it's leased it's going to be leased, and I can't see the city buildings stuffed to lease out and be a landlord. Now then, if the senior center goes into it we're building it for a senior center. We're not leasing it, we're building it for a senior center, do you see what I? Lehman/I see what you mean, I don't know if we're building it for a senior center, I think the thing at this point it's being built for other purposes and yet at some point in time it might be a (can't hear). Thomberry/I can't see it, I can't see it. O'Donnell/I would like to see it leased out because. Lehman/All fight. O'Donnell/It does give you an opportunity for lots of expansion at a later date and it if we don't do that then we will never, this is going to be the only opportunity we have to expand this. Norton/Yea, I don't know. Kubby/I think your fight. O'Donnell/If we get fid of that Dean then this will never expand and with our growing senior population, I'd like to at least have the opportunity to expand it down the road. Norton/Well nobody had the objection of that, the in between scenario of where the county wanted to buy a piece of. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 52 Champion/No, (can't hear). (All talking). Norton/Count on senior dining then might free up some space, but seem to me a real possibility if we can work that, but I would also agree to try to do some leasing so you preserve some flexibility. O'Donnell/I just have a problem with the county. The county' s paying 20 percent I understand the usage is 27 percent. Thornberry/I think that is we're saying, (can't hear). The senior center you can go into that space but that's your space, it's not for five years, it's not for 10, that's your space, that's part of senior center. Kubby/But it takes off. Thornberry/And that' s going to be a decision and I don't know if I would say no to that. But I can't see building it and leasing it out to somebody. Say that (can't hear) you can have it at a later date, no, either build it for the senior center or sell it. Lehman/The problem with that Dean is that you'd have to come up with the operating funds, if you (can't hear) the senior center up front we don't have the money to do that. We don't know that they have to have it fight now. Maybe it's a good idea at some point down the line to reserve the possibility of expansion, if you sold the property you would not have the possibility to expansion, their locked into a building for which there is no expansion. Kubby/And I think we're clear about all those issues and we hear your objections. Thornberry/Good. Norton/Yea. Lehman/Is there anything we can tell the library that we haven't told them? We haven't told them anything. O'Donnell/Let's tell them we're going to take a break, (can't hear). Lehman/Is there? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 53 Norton/Well we told them quite a bit about that there's considerable expectations for them to live within, to restrain substantial. Lehman/I think. Kubby/Well there are, I think there are three of us who have said same zero new operating expenses is not realistic. Lehman/Probably not I think that's probably fight. Kubby/Well I mean that would be helpful for them to know. If they know that I mean so it's someone else with an opinion. Thornberry/What was that? Kubby/That Steve' s suggestion of zero new operating expenses is not realistic for them and well. Lehman/Well I think, but I do think there is an indication, I really would like to see what they come up with, I do think that (can't hear). Kubby/So at this point we're not accepting that part of Steve's idea. (All talking). Thornberry/A zest without it doing other things without additional money. Norton/You think they can restrain but I don't think they can do all and that's what Karen and I are saying. Champion/Well I would be willing to look at this 13 ½ cent, a portion of it to ftmd a public space in the library that I'm not directly related to (can't hear) her tape or whatever. Lehman/Right. Norton/But what about the other part in operating? Champion/Well I think I've made myself clear I'm not willing to give them any money until the year 2003, I think I've stated that three or four times this morning. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 54 Kubby/Right, but that probably we won't be in this same space in the same conversation about police and fire and other departments because there's no projection what to do with operating money. Champion/But we know the budget increases every year, even if we have to start looking at salary increases, maybe we need to look seriously at our negotations. If our (can't hear) we can't continue to give pay raises that are 4.5 or 5 percent because that also (can't hear) find that out. (All talking) Champion/I'm just saying we need to look at a lot of things. Norton/But we stayed below that. Thornberry/Oh yea. Champion/I know you do, but what I'm saying we need to look at everything, if you want to throw out things we might look at in two years I mean we could just go through everything in here. Norton/What we're trying to do now that's what we did we went through and looked where did we make cuts, I don't understand you guys. Lehman/Well I sense that ifI do not sense the majority is willing to look at cuts in the positions that we have funded for police and fire, I'm I correct? Thomberry/You are correct. Champion/Correct. Lehman/I don't sense that there's an interest in doing that at this point and that's not saying that won't change but I think at this point that's not something there's interest in doing. Kubby/I'm with you on fire but not police. Lehman/OK. We're going to take five. OK, were going to meet with the Library board on Monday, listen to what they've got some questions for us, well it's at the work session, I assume that's. Atkins/Monday is your regular session. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 55 Norton/What time are they coming? Thornberry/6:30. Atkins/Well that's, we leave here that's where were going (can't hear). You've got a busy agenda Monday night. Champion/Right. Thornberry/All right, I can't come here any earlier. Norton/What time we try, wasn't that to be announced Monday night? Karr/I've sat here for two hours and you've (can't hear). (All talking). Thornberry/What? Karr/It was to be announced because it was up to you folks to set your agenda. You've got a busy agenda as Steve had indicated and if there was an option of starting early we wanted to discuss that. Atkins/Yea we just wanted to make sure you had it on the table. Norton/How early can you come on Monday? Thornberry/Well I've got that golf tournament for the for the. Norton/Am I (can't hear). Thornberry/It's been for a year, it's been for a year. Norton/Yea. Champion/Yea. Thornberry/I'm (can't hear) yes you are, it's that (can't hear) for the not cystic fibrosis for the it's. Atkins/Anyway fund-raiser. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 56 Thornberry/6:30. Champion/Well 6:30 for this. Lehman/All fight 6:30. Thomberry/I'm sure (can't hear). Atkins/Well I'll check back with Ernie on the agenda that you've got that, we've got a hearing Monday night, or Tuesday night. Lehman/Tuesday night. Atkins/So if you've got any questions on route I don't think, we're pretty well set on the route business, I you've kind of been through that and it is a heating so I'm assuming you won't have much time to devote to routes on Monday night. The JTPA guys coming in 15 minutes, we told him, he seemed to be OK with that, that's Mark Moore. Lehman/Madan you mentioned to me yesterday about a need for a special meeting on Wednesday the 2nd of June? Karr/We we're going to talk about that Monday night. Lehman/Oh Monday night, we'll talk about it, forget it then. Karr/We're going to be setting it for June 2nd at 8:00 if that works out for everyone. Lehman/All right. Norton/What that 6:30 decided for Monday night? Lehman/Yea, I guess. Norton/That doesn't leave us long doesn't it? Especially on that subject does it? Vanderhoef/What time do we meet that morning? Karr/8:00 am. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 57 Lehman/My sense from time the library folks will may have a certain number of (can't hear) specific questions they'd like to ask us most of which are not going to be I don't terribly time consuming. Their not going to come anywhere near the kind of conversation we've had here. Norton/Is that, I wanted to say, somebody really gave me a lot of static for us starting late Tuesday night, our executive session and that we didn't come in until ten after 7:00. Lehman/I'm sorry but. Norton/I understand that but I'm (can't hear). Kubby/It happens once a decade. (All talking). (Break) Budget Review Lehman/I know it's a break and I don't apologize for that either so. All fight Steve you gave or you have a sheet. Arkins/Oh yea, that's fight you wanted a quick update. Lehman/Yea, I asked Steve to give us an update on our capital improvements project to date where we are as far as the cost of them as opposed to, we're getting it fight now. Norton/Oh, yea, I just (can't hear). Lehman/As opposed to what they were bid at and surpfisingly we're very close within $362,000. Arkins/(Overhead) This is just a heads up, in general we've done pretty well. I think you can read the one that came in (can't hear) figures the Foster Road came in great, that total cumulative difference is a 10, less than 2 percent so you know we're not This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 58 at least there's a margin in there. We are doing pretty well. We are going to be opening this afternoon, fight Marian, now. Karr/10:30. Atkins/10:30 we'll open the Iowa River Power Dam. That one's got us a little nervous because of all the variety of things beyond our control, but those are the ones that are up coming, so generally what we will notice up front is that you can see things have again Foster Road really helped us out. And I didn't get into funding sources, we just generally speaking our bids are coming in pretty close. Lehman/When will we be expected to approve Foster Road? Atkins/Next meeting I'm assuming. Lehman/Then I hope by next meeting we have a little more information on the peninsula project. Atkins/You'll have the power dam project. Kubby/Update on the process (can't hear). Atkins/And that may take a little time now if you want that on the agenda I'll I need to give (can't hear) a heads up on that. Lehman/I do not think we should approve Foster Road project until we have some clue as to where we are on that project. Atkins/OK. That's fine, I'll take care of that. Champion/That's a good idea. Atkins/Yea, that is a good idea, your fight. Vanderhoef/What is the date that's the peninsula property schemes are to be back to us? Atkins/They're back. Vanderhoef/They are back? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 59 Atkins/Yes, we had, we had one proposer that we fell and somebody and Karin's still working on it, I mean this was yesterday so I haven't had a chance (can't hear) but I'll have something for you on Monday night. Vanderhoef/Did it all (can't hear) came back? Atkins/No. (All talking). Atkins/We've got that, they didn't know that at the time so. Vanderhoef/Oh. Lehman/I really would like some location as to the seriousness of that proposal because I think that would definitely affect how I'm going to feel about doing that project. Atkins/Now remember some of Foster Road is water related. Lehman/No, no, I know that, I mean water, sewer and trail but we also. Atkins/I hear you, you want to put up the speed on the peninsula project before you vote on this? Lehman/I do, (can't hear). Atkins/OK, that's fine. Kubby/I think that makes the most sense. Atkins/I'll get to Karin this morning. Lehman/All fight. OK. Anything else guys? Thornberry/Yes, another thing, when your doing schedules and meetings and stuff, we've got one scheduled for Wednesday June 2nd if it's 8:00 in the morning I can not be there. I'll be back from Washington DC sometime during the day. Lehman/It isn't a meeting that's going to be critical. Thornberry/OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299 May 12, 1999 Special Work Session Page 60 Lehman/I mean it's a, she'll tell us Monday night. Atkins/I thought it was housekeeping. Champion/We only need four people here. Lehman/Like it's a two minute meeting. Champion/Right. Thomberry/All fight thanks. Lehman/Although and keep look at your calendars because Monday night it would be nice to set a meeting time for our evaluations, and really, we need to get that meeting set so. Atkins/OK, no answer. Lehman/All fight anything else from council? Thank you. Meeting adjoumed 10:05 AM. (End of 99-57 Side 1) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 12, 1999. WS051299