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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-05-17 TranscriptionMay 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 1 May 17, 1999Council Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thomberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Dilkes, Franklin, Helling, Karr, Craig, Clark, Green, Rockwell Tapes: 99-57, S1; 99-58 all; and 99-59 S1 A complete transcription is available in the City Clerk's office. Joint Meeting with Library Board 99-57 S2 Lehman/ Why don't we introduce ourselves so everybody knows everybody. If you don't know who you are ask the person next to you. Mark. I'm Mark Martin. I'm the vice-president of the Library Board. Martin/ O'Donnell/ I'm Mike O'Donnell, City Council. Thornberry/Dean Thomberry, City Council. Spencer/ Anne Spencer, Library Board. Swaim/ Jim Swaim, Library Board. Singerman/Jesse Singerman, president of the Library Board. Parker/ Lisa Parker, Library Board. McMurray/Mary McMurray, Library Board. Norton/ Dee Norton, City Council. Dellsperger/Linda Dellsperger, Library Board. Champion/Connie Champion, City Council. Kubby/ Karen Kubby Vanderhoef/Dee Vanderhoef, Council. Barklay/ Winston Barklay, Library Board. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2 Lehman/ Ernie Lehman, Council. First is a joint meeting with the Library Board. Oh. Greenleaf/Steve Greenleaf, late arrival. (Laughing) Lehman/ Steve Greenleaf, late arrival. Jesse, please do. Singerman/First of all I want to thank you for putting us on the agenda and allowing us the time and I also thank you for all the hours you've spent talking about us in the past few weeks, for better or for worse. Ah, and I think at this point what we hope to do is just sit down with you and just have a conversation about where do we go from here. Given that the sales tax has failed, rather dramatically and ah we still have the same problems that we had in terms of the library space it's probably it's not going away and doing nothing really isn't a solution, we'd like to talk it over with you. We'd like your guidance right now and get some agreement if possible about where we're going to go next. When we go into this next phase of planning and just to kick it off we listened to the discussion that you had the past couple of weeks in your extra meetings and it's clear that the issue operating costs are is a serious one for you and a difficult stumbling block. We want to remove this barrier so that we can go ahead. So we've determined that we will not ask you for additional money fund operating costs for an expanded library during the 3- year planning horizon you've just completed. Which I believe is '01, '02,'03, am I correct about that? / Yes. Atkins/ Say them again. Singerman/01, 02, 03. Atkins/ Fiscal year 2000 is the upcoming budget. Singerman/O.K., so Atkins/ You added one more year. You shouldn't have. (All talking) Atkins/ 2000, 2001 and 2002. Singerman/O.K. great. So This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 3 (All Laughing) Singerman/And following that which is you know four years from now, we will raise part of the money ourselves to fund the standard operating costs and we will work to keep the total amount to an absolute minimum through good building design and certain features like self-check out and whatever we can do to make that as small a number as possible. So you have our commitment on that. We really want to remove this issue as a barrier to going ahead. / Great. Singerman/ We provided you with a couple of things, a letter a few weeks ago and then ah just recently a list of questions I was to generate the list of questions for the purpose of organizing the discussion and I'd say that the first thing that we would like to address is the issue of 64-1 a. And whether we can use that in our planning process as we go forward. Thornberry/I'd like to ask a question regarding the 64-1a. And that's and I haven't heard from the Library Board what your intentions are as far as expanding the current library. Is it expanding the current library, is it building a completely new library is a combination of the two, I don't know? Greenleaf/ Dean, in looking at 64-1a the most important or the thing that we have considered so far is a corollary to the point that Jesse just made and that is your concern and our concern about operating expenses. The best way to minimize any increased any operating expenses is a new stand alone building. For purposes of design and energy efficiency that would be the most efficient, so if that is a priority of the council as it appears to us to be, that is the that would be the best way for us do that. It would count of course with downtown strategy. We believe prior councils and this council have commitment to downtown and keeping the library downtown. And ah to keeping that area vital, so that is the I think the best option for library is a new stand alone building on 64-1a. That meets those criteria best. Lehman/ Would your feeling be different if there wasn't what you perceive to be a real strong commitment on the part of the council to downtown? Greenleaf/ That would be, from our planning purposes from when we, ah from when we started I was in on it from the beginning, it always comes back to me but the first time we sat down the first few times we sat down we thought we'd be building branches. And all our library design expertise tells us that branches are not appropriate. So, we've excluded that and of again that's a corollary This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4 of operating expenses. So there is I think no better place than downtown. And, so ah I think the board really wants to stay there. I think we get into other great difficulties if we're not downtown. If we can address the issue of parking which I think can be addressed, then I think the public would be very receptive of keeping it there. Norton/ You say that address the issue of parking I noticed you and other brought up parking and there's now 2,500 places within a block and a half of there and presumably some parkings planned underneath there your perception from the ones we've seen so far, plus the ramp adjacent plus Chauncey Swan, plus another one presumably going up by a block and a half, it strikes me as there's a lot of parking and considerable of it free, Chauncey Swan is free at night don't tell anybody, but... Craig/ We have a bookmark that tells people that very thing. Norton/ Well, so there's quite a bit of parking so I guess I'm having trouble seeing that as a huge issue. Greenleaf/ Well, you know Dee, I think that's a is a very good issue in public perception as a frequent library user I now 95% of the time park in the lot in 64-1a. Easily, no problem, I must say I park closer there than when I have to trek out to some other places I won't mention. And get in quicker. And so, but it's a big public perception all the feed back we get that's a constant area that we have to address. And I think it is addressed but that would be foremost in our consideration. Norton/ But they don't like it if they're gone get on street parking downtown period, SO... Greenleaf/Well that's. . . Norton/ No, if your going down you're gonna have ramp parking. Greenleaf/If you have good quick in and out alternatives I think that's what the public is looking for. Dellsperger/I think a stand-alone would afford us the chance to have a drive up drop box that would answer those questions too. Cause that's another frequent problem. Champion/You have drop boxes now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 5 Dellsperger/ (All talking) Dellsperger/ Norton/ Atkins/ Norton/ We do but not ... Um very well, I think they're used quite a bit. What's the square footage of 64-1 a offhand, again 37 something? Yes it is. Oh what a memory right? (All Laughing) Norton/ What did you need on one floor during the planning of this earlier when you talked considerably about children's needs particularly was there something like 31,000 on one floor that was pretty vital to you? Is that a planning figure? (All talking) Singerman//About 80,000 square feet. Norton/ You wouldn't necessarily take all of 64-1 a not necessarily. Singerman/Well, that was one of our questions... (Mechanical interference) Singerman/...restriction. That we should we do have to an architect some guidelines. Singerman/Can I say one more about parking? Greenleaf/Sure. Singerman/That the what we've talked about would be a cultural center for community and ah... (All Laughing) Norton/ Say the word. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 6 Singerman/...I know, but parking underneath and I think that that would provide people who have trouble getting in and out of cars and weather and such it would be better situation than we have now. With people having to walk even a block or so it would be better thing. Norton/ Yeah, that would be a... (Inaudible) Thornberry/So it doesn't ah solve the problem for people who for one reason or another parking ramp, but saying that. What do you, new question, what do you envision for the ah, I don't want to call it the old library, because the old library is across the street, but the middle library... Lehman/ The present library. Thornberry/...the current library what do you envision of that building doing? Singerman/ I think that is an issue for Council and City Staff to resolve and one of the things we would like to know is are you willing to assign somebody to answer that question because we think will be important for the public to know what the disposition of that building is going to be. Champion/Ever have plans to expand into, I know you did, but what happened to the plans to expand into what we call the Lenoch and Cilek Building... (All talking) Swaim/ ...prior Council kind of discouraged that. (Laughter) Champion/You know, I'm just going to be just blunt with you, I think you're going to have a hard time passing a bond referendum for a brand new library. When people view the library you have as new. And I'm not so sure if as a council member, I don't know what would a library cost? I don't know, just throw me a figure... (All talking) Singerman/...between $15 and $17 million... (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 7 Champion/As a council member, I look at, all fight let the public decide if they decide yes, that's going to influence our capital projects for the next 20 years7 And I'll be anxious to hear what phone call thing you've gone through because when I talk to people they look at me like, they wanna build a new... (All talking) Swaim/ I understand part of you know in any election we're going to be dealing with a lot of different perceptions, my question for Council if we were as full force and we felt there was an urgent need for a school building, but we weren't sure the voters were gonna vote for you, wouldn't still at least try and advance the policy of giving a new school building? Thornberry/If the were necessary to build a new library and continue operations of the current library I could see where, if the need was there, yes. Now you're thing with the school, they need a new school because they need a new school there not closing one school across the street and building a new school, just because they want a new school. You know what I mean? Norton/ Swaim/ I understand that part... Singeman/The analogy maybe should be an addition onto a high school. Instead of the... Thomberry/I mean fight now if you're gone build a new school, you don't close one across the street and build a brand new one just on the other side of the street and that' s what we're doing with the library. (All talking) (All Laughing) Swaim/ ...we need significant additional footage if you want to have a viable thriving library and I think the citizens do want that. Parker/ Well, within the constraints that we've got, going west has got it's limitations. Going to a second story that goes a pedestfian mall has it's limitations, so this is kind of what we're asking you to frame for us, which way do you want us to go. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 Champion/I agree I think we have to expand either toward the city link or you have to have a new facility. Cause, I just don't see how you could put a bridge across the pedestrian mall and try manage two separate units... Singerman/...that would not be a very efficient building site. In terms of the Lenoch and Cilek Building, we would need to know from are you willing to acquire that property? (All talking) Singerman/It's complicated. Kubby/ Yeah, more think the commtmity would have more of a problem purchasing private commercial space downtown in talking about a whole new stand- alone. Because actually the stand alone it seems it's going to be even more efficient operating than elongated upper floor. Swaim/ The other thing, Susan or Steve made, correct me, but the cost when we came forward with the proposal to do the expansion it was roughly the same cost what's outlined here in the stand alone on 64-1a. Dellsperger/ Again, there wasn't a real solid figure of what it was gonna cost to purchase that. (All talking) Swaim/ Then there were a couple of questions about that is an old building that has somethings that we weren't certain about in terms of conforming with environmental laws to remove, I can't remember what the thing was... Kubby/ But you have moving expenses and temporary relocation expenses that (can't hear) be higher than any estimated cost previously, because that was quite a few years ago. There's a lot of factors out there that could be very expensive. And like Dean is very opposed ... Thornberry/Displacing private enterprise and not giving them any additional space, yeah .... Norton/ 64-1a would have a lot of virtues of not messing with the present space, you could continue to operate, you could do it separately, you could design it specifically. I would hope that we you wouldn't have any objections to foundations of support a couple of floors above you in case... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 9 (All Laughing) Norton/ Well, I've got some customers for fancy condos downtown, fight on top of the library would be cool. Greenleaf/We don't want to repeat history in that regard, no sir. Martin/ What do you think public perception will be if Council determined that the best spend strategy the library would be to move away from downtown? Thomberry/Who knows? (All talking) Barklay/ I'm wondering if that would be a signal to the public that ah the councils giving up on downtown. Lehman/ Oh I don't think that's tree. But I don't I can't imagine an alternative location that would be acceptable to the community. You pick the east side the west side won't be happy, you pick the west side and the east side won't be happy. I mean I just don't know, I totally concur with the Library Board, that downtown, and not because the city has commitment to downtown. I just think that downtown is the hub of Iowa City. The buses go there, the parking is there. And in spite of complaints about parking whatever, it just seems to me that there was no other location that probably would be acceptable to the community. I may be wrong on that, but that's. . . So we're talking about downtown is the fight place for the library. What are the options besides 64-1 a for an expansion? Norton/ We've talked about couple other locations, but I don't know that they're, like the bus station comer for example we talked about it's not quite as centrally located if you're going to be central you really want to be central. Champion/It's not big enough is it? Norton/ Well, yeah, you put a bunch of parcels together, sure. It again would be adjacent to a ramp and it wouldn't be all bad but it would be a little bit off center. I thought 64-1 a was more center particularly because the meetings rooms, I felt which are component of this is whatever you think meeting rooms are important the library, as I understand it, all around the country. I think that they should be centrally located too, but I think there other options, that the main one I think of. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 10 Vanderhoef/Yeah, when you say downtown I guess, I think of downtown being a little larger than right exactly with the retail space, so that would be downtown I think you could go 2 or 3 blocks south of Burlington in that area and still call it downtown centrally located easy to get to because of the arterial streets around there to get to. In your mind is the post office downtown? Vanderhoef/Yep. Norton/ Yeah. Vanderhoef/To me it is, so (All talking) Vanderhoef/We can expand a little bit for our thoughts of this, but to go to Sycamore Mall is not downtown and it's not centrally located. Kubby/ But the reality of downtown and the cost with this are cheaper if we already own the land. If we go south of Burlington, city does not own a plot of land that is beginning, I don't know if we own any land on side streets. South of Burlington so the reality is very fixed vision of going west, which I think has loads more problems and expenses than we really realize and acceptability issues that 64-1a is a very wonderful opportunity that we've been striving for decades to have something happen on 64-1 a and what better thing to have happen to the last urban renewal parcel, than a public library? (All talking) Vanderhoef/...I have an opposite view of 64-1a and when I first came on Council I looked at 64-1a and one of the questions that was asked at that time to all the people who were nmning, and it was would you sell 64-1 a or are you just going to leave it sitting there? And this was before the library even talked about using it as a possibility. And I said yes to me, that's urban renewal land that was there and it was taken off the tax roles from private business when they did the urban renewal and it needs to go back on the tax roles. Now that was my first thought. Ah, I think if some of you remember when the first conversations went out about going across to 64-1 a after Council had said that they weren't interested in the Lenoch and Cilek westward expansion, ah there were several of us that were very up front and plain, are you sure, that Holiday Inn does not want a piece of that property because This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 11 coming from CVB kind of promotion we need certain kinds of convention and meeting room space that goes with a convention that would say have 100 - 150 people and still have breakout rooms. And we have spaces within the city that have some large spaces, but by the time you have to have meeting room space and food space, then you decrease the number of people that you can entice to come for a convention because you have to use multiple sites. So anyway, that's the long end of my reasoning that I wanted Holiday Inn to take a good look at 64-1 a. Ah, and so a letter was sent and they finally responded very late as I recall, they were not interested. I'm very pleased when I hear recently, that the new owners of that hotel are interested and have done similar kinds of things in this kind of a market size town to do some convention space adjacent space to their hotel and to me, that's the biggest economic development and it puts that piece of property downtown, which is a very expensive piece of property, back on the tax rolls if that's a possibility. Dellsperger/I think like Karen said last week, let the city drive that development. Vanderhoef/Well, giving them a deadline when they have already come in and purchased and made a huge commitment for renovation, ah, and knowing the funding available to the city at the moment, to do the operations of it, it just looks like it needs a little more playout time. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/No, no no. Excuse me, you misunderstood, operating of the library. So I think there is a little playout time there but I'm not personally, right at this moment, ready to commit 64-1 a in its entirety, to library... Norton/ Vanderhoef/... for those reasons. Kubby/ What about, what are the ways we could answer the library, for the square footage, the service needs the community has for the library, what is the smallest... (All talking) Vanderhoef/...efficiently, cause I know the more floors you go, the more staffing it takes. Kubby/ I mean part of our criteria could say we'd like to see a plan that leaves some of 64-1 a open for private development if that should happen in the future and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 12 so what is the most efficient building you can create on 64-1 a without using the whole parcel? Or give them a percentage of the parcel. Singerman/I mean, another way to look at it is the grass is always greener. There is always a potential buyer out there, maybe. And that's been going on for... Norton/ Singerman/...but, the development that we looked at before had the library on one floor, I'm trying to say maybe they could go up above I guess. Vanderhoef/And I would say because their convention space in the present building is underground, that the underground might well be what they would want to expand... (All talking) Vanderhoef/Well, there's lots of things that could happen, but I'm not ready to cormnit on 64-1 a at this point. Lehman/ There's a question that we really need to address before we talk about 64-1a, or Lenoch and Cilek property or the bus station. Jesse you've indicated that from the operating expenses for the first year, if the library were to be placed on the ballot this Fall, from the city's perspective, the city would not have to worry about increased funding until the fourth year, if you will. Singerman/...just completed... (All talking) Lehman/ Right. I think what we have to do, we have to tell you folks and decide whether or not that is a goal we feel we can meet and the kind of money that would be required for the city to invest, which would be in the year 2003, that's fight. But, I think you know, we've got to make that commitment, and if we're not willing to make that commitment, or don't feel we can make that commitment, then we're kind of spinning our wheels talking about where we're gone build or not gone build or whatever. I think the discussion, really needs to be, is are we comfortable as Council, with the City finding the money in the general fund, out of the eight-ten levy, in the year 2003, to fund the additional operating expenses of the library? Thornberry/God, I thought Jesse would give us a freebie year there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 13 (All laughing) Thornberry/..2003. Norton/ I'm surely one that says yes Ernie. Surely one that says yes. I want, I think that that's important to get that commitment out and if you wanna get that done before you do anything else. That's why, Dee's question, was why I brought up how much square footage on one floor. I would like to see some accommodation for the projected expansion or accommodation of the hotel, I think that' s absolutely vital component of our downtown. On the other hand, here we go again, getting locked up in things that get tangled, and the question, what's there timeline? How fast can they move along? We can't draw up 1,800 plans if they need space in the ground floor or on the basement or it affects the library's plans all together. That's why how much do you need on particularly floor, and I heard 31,000 from some point on one level and that... Kubby/ ...complete the answer... Norton/ Well, to get the answer of how many are gone go for that? Well, I think we really have to do that. I don't see us encouraging you folks to continue planning and working like crazy for the building if we're not going to fund the money for the operation of the building. (All talking) Or where we're gone come up with the money to do it. Champion/ If we commit ourselves to a library referendum that passes, I will find the money. I mean that's part of the commitment. We have to find it. If you commit to the library, you commit to the funding of the operating expenses, 2006, what was it? (All laughing) Norton/ (All talking) Lehman/ ...I think Jesse has made it pretty clear that through the year 2002 there will be no increase to the eight-ten... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 14 Norton/ Kubby/ Singerman/...within, $180,000 last time I saw and we haven't' yet, you know tried to figure out how to bring that number down and we've already said we think we can raise $50,000 to $60,000 and Steve mentioned this idea about the 13½ ¢ money, levy for civic center. And we certainly haven't' discussed it thoroughly, but I think we'd be open to talking about further about that. So, I believe that there are some options on the table. Champion/I will commit to giving you the money, if you get the bond issue passed. Kubby/ We need some other folks. Norton/ How many do we got here? Lehman/ Well, I've heard three, well now it's easy to say that we will commit if, I we, I don't think it's an if here. I think we need to tell these folks... Champion/No. I said if the bond referendum passes... Lehman/ Well, no obviously if it passes. Vanderhoef/Well, I won't put it on if don't... Norton/ ...other way around... Vanderhoef/... other way around... (All talking) Norton/ ...you don't put it on unless... Vanderhoef/...if there is a for sure case that we've got the money to do it. Where I'm real skidish is that I know how tight the budget is now, that we can't do it and we've got a couple of things coming up, the storm water is the biggie, that we have no number on it at all and we don't have the guidelines and as far as we know, sometime this Fall is the latest projection when the Feds will come down with that one and that will be general fund money. Because everything that they told us at League of Cities is that there will not be funding coming down to go with the mandate. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 15 Swaim/ I think we clearly understand that. I'm not sure we're communicating effectively as a Library Board to you all that we believe that the amount of expanded operating costs will be dramatically less that what you've been kicking around and that we are going to work really hard to offset that cost as much as we can. Vanderhoef/And I appreciate that. Norton/ ... even beyond... Swaim/ It doesn't sound like it registers Dee... Vanderhoef/ Swaim/ ...you talk about $500,000, you've got to be able to commit I don't understand ... Vanderhoef/No. No, I'm not talking of that. I'm just talking about my general fund and the things that are on the horizon that I don't know what they are gone cost and I don't know how much increase, we never know how much increase we are gone get ah, because of rollback. So, until I go through another budget cycle, and maybe get a better idea ofwhat's happening with storm water, I cannot make a commitment to this. Well, what about the rest of you? O 'Donnell/ You bring up a very good point Dee and you know, I don't think there is any question about this Council's commitment to downtown. All you have to do is look any street, they are tom up, they are being improved. Ah, I have a question, I hear over and over again about 8,000 square feet on the second floor... It's 7,000. O'Donnell/ It's 7,000? Okay. And I've favored Connie's suggestion, expanding west, I would like to keep 64-1a available for the Holiday Inn. But, Connie you and I weren't involved in the negotiations with that so we don't know what came... Champion/...back of my mind... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 16 Kubby/ ...but even if the westerly expansion and the 7,000 feet on the upper floor, there is still gone be increased operating costs. So, the question before us at the moment then is, would you be willing, you know... O'Donnell/You know, that's like putting a crystal ball in from of you. I don't Kubby/ O'Donnell/...I don't know that's it's gone be available and I hear you can come up with $50,000 to $60,000? Is that what I'm hearing? Singerman/We have said... O'Donnell/That still leaves us $120,00 here. Martin/ It's difficult to talk in these terms. All of us are trying to be as open and honest as we can without having enough information. O'Donnell/Exactly fight. Martin/ The bottom line is the Library Board is prepared to do everything in its power to reduce operating expenses and if we have the option of building a stand alone library that we can use the best technology and the best design in order to limit the number of staff persons we need, which is the place that you add the most operating expenses, that will be a terrific help. If the heating, ventilating and air conditioning system is of the most optimum design you know, to reduce the operating costs of the utilities, that will be a great deal of help. We're playing a game here with figures that none of us can actually substantiate, but the fact is, if you came to 2003 and said you know there is no way we're gone be able to fund the extra operating expenses, then the library is gone have to find a way to eat them, aren't' they? Champion/ Martin/ We have as much responsibility to try to be ~scally accountable in terms of how this operates as you do and we want to be partners in this. Not niggling over a $100,000. to niggle over in a $33 million dollar budget or in even in the library's budget seems to me like a tremendous waste of time, given the larger issues that we're looking at? / What's a niggle? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 17 Martin/ I don't know, maybe theological, but I'm not sure. (All laughing) Norton/ ... I want to comment on, the communication I understood Jesse to say at least for the next three years, that is '00, '01 and '02, they would try to manage things in the design and operations so the expenses would not, the additional operating expenses would not fall on the Council is that true? (Several voices) Correct. Right. Norton/ Kubby/ Norton/ Kubby/ Norton/ Now, beyond that, this is what I was asking, what shoe do you expect to drop in '03 roughly? Something will have to happen. ...before the building, they are trying to get parameters from us so they can go design a building so then they can get those... But we may need to make... ...we may need to make a commitment to pick up some operating expenses beyond '03... / I don't know, Dee... Norton/ ...over and above the present. (All talking) Martin/ Dee, I have to say that if we had our way on this, and if things worked our way, we wouldn't ask you for anything. Norton/ I understand that. Martin/ That is our commitment. Thank you. (Group Laughing) Martin/ No. Seriously, I mean, if we could design this in a way that we could keep this to an absolute minimum, which we consider to be... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 18 Norton/ ...I know you will... Martin/ responsibility. We don't have a dollar figure... Norton/ Ernie's question to us was, are we willing to pick up some additional operating expenses in the third year out? I... (All talking) Lehman/ Well, there are two things we have to address. We have gone through a capital improvements projection for the next four years, three years. Whatever it is. But we projected $10 million dollars each of those years. I think that our, the percent of taxes that we will be using to retire debt goes up to about 18 or 10% on the tax bill. If we maintain the capital improvements projects that we projected fight now and if we had a bond issue this Fall that were to pass, that would take us up to about what, 25 or 26%... Norton/ Right. Lehman/ .... somewhere in there. So we have operating costs and we have a policy on the amount of debt, taxes that we are willing to use to retire debt. And I guess we have to decide are we willing to find or try to find the operating expenses in 2003? And are we willing to adjust if we need to the capital improvements programs to keep the amount of money required to reduce debt within the 25%... Norton/ ...which we'll do... Lehman/ Now I don't think there is, there is no question in my mind, at some point, in the near future this is gone happen, I think it's just a matter of when it happens. I think that we are going to, we are gone build a new library. You know I think it's gone happen. Now whether or not it happens this year, that year or whatever, me personally, I think it is probably something that should be done, but I think the question for me is, when is the best time to do it? Both from the city's perspective of the eight-ten levy also from the city's perspective in regards to the capital improvements program. This is a piece of the puzzle we have to make fit into the larger picture. And I think we need to make it as clear as we can to the Library Board where we think we are. I mean these folks have worked very hard for a long time in putting together programs or building projects and they haven't happened yet. Now they are about to work on another project. If we are willing to go to bat with them and I don't mean just to say it's okay. I mean I really believe if the bond issue has a chance of passing it's gone take commitment on part of the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 19 Council. Now if we're willing to make that commitment, in November of this year, that's fine, let's make that commitment. If we don't feel that is appropriate for us, and that a year from now is a better time, let's say that too. But I think we need to say where we are or where we are comfortable, that we think is best for the community and I don't think it makes a lot of difference to sit here and discuss whether or not the Holiday Inn is gone build on part of that lot or the library is gone build on part of it or it should be this or that until we get past that point. Now, if we decide that indeed it should be this November or the following November, a lot of thing, Mark you said it very clearly, we don't know what we are talking about fight now. There is no plan. We are talking about a freestanding building, I think. I hear from most of the Council that it will probably be on 64-1a, probably will not be where the Lenoch Cilek building is. There may or may not be a possibility of incorporating something with something commercialized. You know there is an awful lot of unknowns right now and we're being asked to make a commitment without really knowing a lot of what we're talking about. (All talking) Parker/ We're not asking for a commitment, we're asking for some answers to some basic questions so we can get a better plan to put in front of you and then get a commitment. Singerman/ Right. We can't get a plan until will you give us 64-1a to put a library on and if you will are there any restrictions on use of the site. Now we need to know that in order to engage an architect to bring you a plan. Lehman/ How long do we have to tell you that? (All talking) Swaim/ ...share one frustration with you. I've been on the Library Board for, when I joined the Library Board, my son was nine years old. And I believe that our library is not anywhere near what a city like Iowa City should have for a library. That gets lost in all of the discussions we've had for six years. If you go, I can challenge anyone on this council to go visit any number of libraries around the State of Iowa, and have no where near the circulation that ours does, from communities that take no where near the pride we do in raising our children. This is one of the healthiest places to come. At some point, you all have to recognize that our library is missing the boat as a space, not because of the staff, simply because of the space. Now the ship has sailed for my family, for my children, I recognize that now. If we commit This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 20 something tonight, my son as a high school student, will never get in to the new building. How many more generations are we gone put this off for? That's the part that gets really frustrating to me. You all talk very eloquently about how committed you are to the library. I challenge you to go look at some of the libraries that are being built. If you are really committed to life- long learning and want adult to be able to come and use the library to increase their skills, if you want children to be able to come and use the library as a place that they nurture their education, we've got a lot of serious challenges ahead of us and I appreciate what you say about maybe now is not the best year. But sooner or later we gotta come forth with this thing. Lehman/ Martin/ The costs are never going to go down. If it costs $15 million if we pass it now, I can guaranty it's not going to cost less than that two years from now. Kubby/ And you have to remember if something is put on the ballot in November and it passes that it is going to be a minimum of 18 months before it's going to be there and for use. So, we are talking... Thornberry/...build a new library in 18 months? Kubby/ I'm saying at a minimum, so it's going to be two years if we do it today. (All talking) Kubby/ So, it still brings me back to the basic question in '03, no matter what specific plan the board comes up with, are we, cause we know there will be some increase in operating expenses, whether it's $5 whether it's $50,000, are we willing to make space in that in our budget and take that challenge on as a Council in '03 and we had four people answer the question and I mean, I'm appreciative of Dee Vanderhoef's clearness in saying I can't answer that question now and I don't want to answer it until after another budget cycle. That' s an answer and we need to hear from the other three on that issue. Norton/ But that's a no for now in other words. Vanderhoef/That's a no for now. Martin/ I'd like to reframe a little bit because the Library Board also has to make decisions. That's to say you're not the only group that needs to react in this particular situation. If the Council says, we have no new operating money for 2003 and we don't perceive we're gone have it, then the Library Board This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 21 has to decide if it can operate an expanded library on money that it has. That is our responsibility. And we need to be able to come back and say yes, we can operate a library in 2003 and we'll do what it takes in our situation to do that and you know, that is our choice, so we have to have an answer either way and we still are going to keep working working working working on how to work this out. Greenleaf/ To some extent this is a hypothetical because no matter what this Council decides... (All talking) Greenleaf/...whatever they want and likewise with the Library Board... Champion/ Greenleaf/ ...but we don't feel we can begin our journey until we have that. I think that's a prerequisite to what you said and then we have plans on the shelves that we can pull out or dust off or brush up that take us somewhere, but that's what we need... Norton/ Mark, you're question isn't quite, you still need to get some general ballpark on the number there. I'm assuming that some number is going to be needed for additional operating expenses in '03 and I'm willing to commit to that assuming number is closer to $100,000 than it is to $500,000, but I'm saying you've got to have some number in mind that you could squeeze out of the budget and I think we can do so. Martin/ Let me put it to you this way if I can. We also have additional ways to raise income, fortunately and we do usually to enhance to collection, to do other things that enhance the program of the library. The Library Friends Foundation has been looking at a fundraiser of major proportions connected to an expanded library. We've talked with them, we've said that to you, you're aware of that process. Some of those dollars may need to be put into a situation where we can use them to offset operating expenses. I don't know that is a decision will have to make down the line. What I want to get to here is we do not want to be hung up on operating expenses. O.K. Champion/ Martin/ You've got to go one way or the other. If you tell us gosh, it's four years out we're still don't think were going to have the money, then we have to say, O.K., we still want to expand the library. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 22 Champion/And even though I say I'm willing to look for the money, obviously if it's not there, I'm not going to give it to you, so then it's just different, so I think we are over the hill on the expenses. I think we need to concentrate on that land use. Norton/ Well, let's find out. Thornberry/If the library is built. They are gonna get the money to operate. You can't say you're not going to give them the money to operate a library we just got through building. First of all giving us three years of operating expenses is a given, because it's gone take that long to build it. I mean that's pretty easy. Two or three years of operating costs. You won't need any additional money until it's up and running and it's gone be 2½ to 3 years... / Two. Thornberry/So, that's a, you know, giving us no additional operating costs, you don't need it until and if... (All talking) Singerman/...zero forever or are you saying... Thornberry/...you need zero increase... Lehman/ ...talking 2003. Thornberry/I understand that ... (All talking) Kubby/ (All talking) Thornberry/...all I'm saying is you came in here saying, we're not going to need anymore money for the next three years, well heck, no you don't need any money for the next three years, it's not going to be built. Singerman/So let's stop talking about the next three years and talk about the fourth year. Thornberry/I'm fight beside Dee Vanderhoef. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 23 Singerman/Which is zero? Thornberry/Which I don't think that 64-1a is appropriate for another library and I call it the third library. Cause I grew up and my son grew up in the old library. Now we have a new library. Now we're gone have a future library. All within one block of each other and I just don't think 64-1a is appropriate for another library. Singerman/So, you don't like 64-1a? Thomberry/Pardon me? Singerman/You don't want us to use 64-1a? Thornberry/I'm only one vote, but that's a retail... Singerman/ Thomberry/What it did was, I remember it very well, Dee does and Mike does and probably Ernie and a lot of people, know exactly what was on that, you know. Long term memory... Norton/ ...been 20 years. (All laughing) Singerman/So, (All talking) Thornberry/I do and I would like to say this for the record, I think everyone of you on the Library Board should be commended for your stand and for the library had I seen some dissension in 60-40 split, you know but you are all so solid and so great to see a commission like this and but, 64-1a to me is retail/commercial space. Dellsperger/Dean, it's been 20 years and nobody has even bid on it? Doesn't... Thornberry/No, it doesn't tell me much because the City is the poorest venue for trying to sell something... (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 24 Champion/ Thornberry/Excuse me? Champion/There's a lot of things that make downtowns viable. Thornberry/Oh, absolutely. Champion/And it is not just retail. Thornberry/And it's not that we don't have a library. (All talking) / Dean Singerman/It's inadequate for it's use. Thornberry/Then why not close it? / We want to and build a new one... Thomberry/..we've got two libraries down there, don't we... (All talking) Dellsperger/We have one Iowa City Public Library. Thornberry/Hey, I can go into the University library anytime I want. (All talking) Thornberry/ End Tape 99-57 S2, Tape 99-58 sides one and two (All talking) Thornberry/To answer your question is there, its not a space issue, your doing things like giving out tapes, tape recorders, etc., etc., that private retail also gets. You're in direct competition, right? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 25 We give books out too. Thornberry/I understand that...that's what a library does. But as for as tapes are concemed to watch videos and the video machines, I just don't know if that is appropriate. We've got computers now and many, many people have computers and they can go to the, as we got letters from... Swaim/ Where did this computer come from? / The city. Swaim/ That computer was purchased by the city. And the public often times commits resources to bfing that technology for all kinds of reasons to the public arena. The library has done nothing different than that. (All talking) Thornberry/Of course were not going to shut the libraries down, we got two beautiful libraries downtown. Kubby/ So Dean how do you feel about going west, is that an acceptable option for the library... ? Thornberry/I'm not going to commit fight tonight off the top of my head on going west on going south on doing whatever but 64-1 a fight now to me, building a new library for me... Kubby/ (All talking) Thomberry/You wanted an answer, you got an answer from me. Kubby/ Not about operating but about 64-1a, that's helpful. So maybe we should go around on that. Lehman/ I personally think this is, I don't think the time is fight I will not do anything to stand in the way of this being on the ballot in November but I think its very poor timing. I don't think anything is ready for us to really talk about, we don't have a plan, we don't have what we're looking for. You folks want to put it on there and I think, I don't know if we got a commitment to increase funds. But like Mark said ifthat's the problem then you'll go back This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 26 and look at it. I don't know that is a problem or isn't a problem. I just think that the timing is not good for this November you might find that out when you do your survey. Singerman/Its possible but we can't do anything until you give us the approval... Lehman/ No, no, no ... (All talking) Kubby/ We need the issue off the table so we can talk about space because even if the library goes back and designs something and we the majority decides we talk about the time frame that's a separate issue so lets... Lehman/ I have no problem with the 64-1 a but I think it would be a very palatable sort of thing if it were in conjunction with something else and I don't know how much time it takes to do that but I think that is a plausible sort of thing that may have a great deal of appeal to the public and make it for more palatable when it comes to a bond issue. Champion/Now that looks huge to me is it smaller than it is looks to me? Singerman/Yes. (All talking) Champion/I mean it looks huge like you could put a hotel and a library and a parking lot on this space. Singerman/Well we'll find out. Champion/But, ya... Norton/ Ernie can we get agreement ... Champion/...I'd like to leave some space for the Holiday Inn or whatever its going to be called but I agree its been there for twenty years and I think the library should be downtown. I think its part of the ambiance of downtown I would not want you to move it anywhere else. Kubby/ So you're okay with 64-1a? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 27 Norton/ I want to see what we've got before it goes for 64-1a subject to some coordination with hotel interest. I'd hate to see them wag the dog so I don't want to give them too long.. (All talking) Norton/ And subject to some planning for use, for other uses commercial uses, presumably the space above the thing. I think that ought to be a go I don't see how we can expand on the present site I think we just ought to get behind that. But I think we've got to have serious, behind it seriously, we'll face the operating costs when they come and we'll ask you to do a lot of that too. Lehman/ Well do we have any sort of consensus? Consensus meaning not necessarily 100% but a majority who would favor looking at a project on 64-1a that did incorporate if possible some commercial component that might make it easier to pass. I mean is that ... Kubby/ But I don't think we need... Thornberry/Part of the problem with marketing 64-1 a in the past has been always the caveat to the perspective purchaser of 64-1 a of a city something... Lehman/ Only for the last five years prior to that there was no caveat of any kind for anything ... (All talking) Lehman/ We agree to hold 64ola four years ago until such time as we had an opportunity to have the library cultural center focus put together a program but prior to that we weren't holding that property for anybody. Atkins/ We were not holding it... Lehman/ It was available. Atkins/ ...it was available but we had interest for the hotel other commercial interest for the site... Lehman/ But it wasn't encumbered by a city use. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 28 Lehman/ No it wasn't encumbered by anything that we had planned to do with that lot or would be required to be incorporated with any development on that lot of a municipal nature. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Ah, remember when you had the plan, four years ago, to go west right when I first came on the council you said you didn't know but there was a possibility of 64-1a because it was being held for, a promise had been made to the arts people but... (All talking) Lehman/ We were stressing the staff to try to market 64-1a and we were actively trying to sell it we then stop trying to sell it and we said look we will hold it until such time ... Thornberry/I believe, Karen can correct me if I'm wrong, but that was also we wanted some space for that the city wanted some of its space available on 64-1a and go ahead and market it. Is that not correct? Franklin/ No. Thornberry/ It was all private? Lehman/ Right. Franklin/ It was all for private development prior to the time when the council decided that you wanted a joint project on there with the library and community event center. So we tried to market it actively twice once with no encumbrance and once with the encumbrance of the library/community event center or some public project. Thornberry/ We've only tried to market it twice in the last 25 years? Franklin/ That I'm aware of yes. Norton/ Continuously I think. Thornberry/ No I don't think it 's been continuously. Franklin/ At the respective councils directions it's just been kind of open. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 29 Thornberry/ Champion/ (All talking) O'Donnell/ Lehman/ It has not been continuously ... I would like to expand west. I think were all looking about viability downtown and I'm, I think the library belongs downtown, but if Holiday Inn is indeed going to expand into that I would like to see what' s going to happen there. Did I not remember in the packet we got the guesstiments as far as the cost of a totally new building and the cost of expanding west was that not in here? Lehman/ Norton/ (All talking) We already know what its going to cost to go west. There are a lot of other factors that were not, land acquisition wasn't involved in that number there. Lehman/ That was $12 million plus land acquisition plus furniture, fixtures and all that we figured about $16 or $18 million. (All talking) Thomberry/ That was then and I don't know what it would be now. Norton/ But building on top of each other ... (All talking) Swaim/ If the council made a commitment to 64-1a is it not possible for them to dispose of what is now in the current library to be developed as a commercial development of some kind... Lehman/ What kind? What kind, do you have any clues. Swairn/ I have no clue but ...I know how some of the development works they could probably come in and level the building and do something. / Well, convention facility comes to mind if your talking about 100 to 150 people at a time you could do something very adequate in that building. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 30 Swaim/ The point, the struggle we had with it is we have to move out to do anything with the footings and that. If we were already out... Lehman/ Well aware of that. Swaim/ ...so if we were already out and in the new building you could do all kinds of things on that side with, I would assume, with good engineering and good architecture. Kubby/ And it could be back on the tax rolls and their problem would most likely would be some expense to us in doing that as Steve has reminded us because we might have to do some things before we sell it which would be some cost. But, um, getting it back on the tax rolls... Lehman/ If we sold that old building would that then be used to reduce the debt on the new building? I would think so but I don't know. Lehman/ If we have a bond issue that would pass to build a new library... Atkins/ Yes. Lehman/ ...we build the new library, the library moves into the new building and we have an opportunity to sell the old building would the proceeds from the old building be used to reduce the debt on the new building? / Could be. Atkins/ I would suspect you could do that. Singerman/Yeah, but money is spongeable you can use it to do anything... (All talking) Singerman/...capital expenditures is what I'm saying. Atkins/ I would think that if a bond issue is passed, the debt service applied. You cashed out that building, generated a million dollars you could apply that directly to the cost of the library but I suggest you borrow as much, short term borrowing to finish up the library. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 31 (All talking) Thornberry/That building was built as a library, for a library, as a library and its almost a single use building as we were told by Steve not to long ago. To do anything really we would almost have to level it and then build. But then you probably would want to putting in the pillars to go up higher... Norton/ (All talking) Lehman/ What can we reasonably tell the Library Board tonight? Kubby/ Well I have four votes for 64-1a and you said yes? Lehman/ I don't have a problem with that in conjunction with some other use. And I'm not saying that I wouldn't totally but I do think ... Vanderhoef/ (All talking) Lehman/ But I think there are a couple of other issues we need to know and I don't mind moving forward with this but we need to know what are the possibilities for the old building. You know, the building is worth, we build a new building and we have an old building sitting there it has to be able to be marketed for something. I think we need to have some idea to what were going to do with that we need some idea what we can put together with the library on that 64-1a. I don't think were going to get a definite answer from the council as far as funding in 2003. That isn't as probably as big a concern for me personally as the ability to put together a bond issue that will pass this Fall I really envision that being a difficult process because there are just too many questions that just aren't answered. Kubby/ But that is just so ironic to me as I sit here because the whole reason we talked about having a sales tax was because we thought we had to know were the operating expenses for a standard library would come from. Lehman/ That fight and we don't know. But we also did have a plan... Kubby/ You've just gone through five years of time from the beginning of that conversation, now were saying well find it if we need to find it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 32 Lehman/ With the sales tax we've gone like a year and a half since we last talked about funding the library is that right? Kubby/ No but the multiple years we've talked about meeting operating expenses... (All talking) Kubby/ ...shifted I think that times have shifted. (All talking) Champion/... shifted... Norton/ Part of it will still be there in three years. Champion/...sales tax would have made these decisions so easy. It would have been a really easy four years on the city council. O'Donnell/Sales tax would have been a 1.2. Kubby/ Now you have to start prioritizing (All talking) Norton/ If there is four of us that agree that 64-1a is plausible with some consideration to combined use ifthat's quite feasible than the question, when do they go ahead and formulate a project literally. The timing question is not decided yet I sharing some of the concerns that given the general anti tax sediment that is around and reflect the bid in the farm economy in this state I think it may not get, it may get worse before it gets better. The timing questions gets to be crucial if they go ahead and formulate a project than we consider timing. Lehman/ That would be, I mean that would be my thinking. But again I don't know that I would go to the extent of having great detailed drawings or whatever put together until we get things kind of put, you know I do think for example the idea of possibly putting together a joint venture on 64-1 a would give it a real, real boost not only from the council but I also think from the public. If that were possible... Well some renderings are going to be needed to pass the body. Thomberry/ (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 33 Singerman/Can I ask just a few more clarifying questions? Lehman/ Yes. Singerman/ Thank you very much for your giving some direction on where we should look. Also can we assume that you would be willing to assign city staff members to work on the issue of the current building, if we perceive and it's going to go on the ballot in November. What's this, I'm sorry? Singerman/ That you assign somebody Karen or somebody to determine what the disposition of the current building would be. We feel that the public will want to know what's going to happen to the current building. And we aren't in a position to make that decision for you, you will have to do that. Well, that's going to be up to the council, Lehman/ No, no, no I think that before there has to be a package put together for and we're not talking tiny. Whenever it goes on the ballot there needs to be you've got to tell the public what are we going to do with the old building, the city recommends that the building be this, this, this and this and so the proceeds should be so and so and that needs to be... Champion/ Right Lehman/ This thing if has a chance to pass will have to be in a very detailed bundle. Norton/ And what are the realistic prospects for that? Lehman/ I think that's fight. So Jesse I do think somebody obviously needs, it our building. (All talking) Champion/The other thing Emie, after you know after being on the school board for nine years building several new schools and several bond referendums, I can tell you there is never a good time to put it on the ballot. / I think that's true. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 34 Greenleaf/ What I would like to see when the council, we've talked about a November date and I would like to see that as a target. We understand there would be two factors. One is just the logistics of putting together a project and number two we're gone do some folks by way of a survey at some public input meetings and that may affect our our desire to bring before the public that quickly depending on what kind of feedback we get, but I would like to set a target date and shoot for that target and reach maybe a little bit but we need to keep some momentum going here and I think we've gotten that kind of feed back tonight if the city will make a commitment the Council will say to it's staff we need to get a hold of the folks the new owners of the Holiday Inn and see if they are seriously interested in this project and really get them to thinking about that. And really get to thinking about how to best market the existing building. Let's reach a little bit for it. And try to put these kind of projects, I've found this very difficult, whether we're talking about Lenoch and Cilek or joint the joint cultural center. You, momentum is one of the most difficult things to develop and maintain and if we reach and set ourselves a goal I think we're much more likely to get there. Kubby/ And there may be some possibilities for designing the building if the hotel can not give a definitive answer, so that we can move forward as a community for library services. Atkins/ Steve, write down one of the things on your list is going to be for us to see what we can find out what we can find out, if anything, from the Holiday hm folks or whoever might be able to tell us. Norton/ City Plaza folks. Lehman/ City Plaza, whatever that building that blocks the Dubuque Street through town. You drive through the ped mall like you're not suppose to, you can't escape through the Holiday Inn. Kubby/ So if I pinch myself real quick. I'll try to be brief here. That the City Plaza folks may not be able to answer questions in a time frame that we want, but the building could still be designed so that whether it's expanded public services whether that's a library in the next 20 years, or a community events center some public building. Or an expansion of the hotel that the building's designed such that it can easily be done. So that we can still design that capacity for a public private partnership but if it doesn't have to be now. If they're not ready now. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 35 Greenleaf/ One of the first things they may say is well we're going to make a decision within two months or three months, or they may say you know within a couple of years? So be it, I mean, obviously that gone make a huge difference. We have been thinking all along we talked about commercial development on top of the library cultural center, of maintaining that kind of flexibility at that site, and that seems to make sense. It's cost some money but it certainly, there will always be multiple opportunities I hope. I hope that kind of interest stays in downtown Iowa City that you want to have that kind of flexibility. But we can design that in that's a capital expense that we do with. Lehman/ Steve I think you also, if you want to write down, I think that we've probably have established that the council would entertain using 64-1a, portions or all of it. Obviously in conjunction with number one. I think that you can also indicate that we probably do not have a consensus that the expanding west is a alternative? O'Donnell/I don't think that we have that at all. (All talking) Atkins/ Could I go a little slower Ernie? 64-1 a since it has an affect on there... (All talking) Lehman/ Being available for the use of the library, I think that we have said that. Is there are there, how many people are interested in the possibility of expanding west? On the Lenoch and Cilek property? Champion/ I thought it would be a good idea, but obviously Lehman/ We need to tell these folks what he... Champion/ Well, obviously I think they talked me out of that. Atkins/ Ernie? 64-1a available for library. So they know that now. All or part of it? Lehman/ Hopefully in conjunction with the first. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 36 Atkins/ May I make an observation? Then don't make anymore lists if everything is going to be back to this guy. My understanding is the library needs to know, do I have all of 64-1a, do I have part of 64-1a? Lehman/ There 's so many questions in here. What do you do with parking if you don't use all of it? I mean how do you design a parking facility underground? Atkins/ I don't know. Lehman/ You don't know if Holiday Inn' s gonna want part of it. Do you decide it in such a way that part of it will be commercial or won't be? Atkins/ Well, we're designing the project now. Kubby/ That's what they're asking us. / Is it possible to give the Library Board permission to speak with the people who are currently operating the hotel? Lehman/ ...please Champion/...great... (All talking) / About what might in fact be possible (All talking) Norton/ ...the subject of coordinating with the hotel about their interests. Short or long term and what the scale of it is. (All talking) Vanderhoef/After that conversation, then come back and lets see what's available. Norton/ Well I think they would have to yeah. Vanderhoef/I don't see that we can go any further. Singerman/The city staff that we need in order to have a project conversation with them would be available to us. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 37 Lehman/ Steve, I also think it necessary that we also take a preliminary look at the plausibility of marketing that old library building. Should a bond pass? A new library be built? / Wait why'd you cross that off?. Atkins/ Because they haven't agreed to it. (All talking) / Yes they have. Atkins/ No they didn't. (All talking) Atkins/ No. They didn't agree to it. (All laughing) Thornberry/He said that it would be available, for the library. Given that it could be a multi-use facility and depending on what the hotel wants, right? Lehman/ Well, or I think what Karen says is accurate too, the Hotel did not express an interest in the design in a fashion where might be added later. I think 64- la... / That's a priority... (All talking) / I think we can proceed plan that says in the absence of the definite commitment from Holiday Inn, can we come up with a design that a year from now / 5 years. / Or 5 years they come forward with an interest in it, can we adaptability to me that interest? I think we can do that... (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 38 / ...I certainly didn't hear anyone say well ah the library can have it only if the Holiday Inn agrees to combine it. (All talking) Lehman/ That would be desirable. (All talking) Kubby/ Actually I'm in the place where if we talk to the City Plaza folks and they say we're not interested, I say take all of 64-1 a. If they're unsure of their time frame, I'm O.K. with ajoint project, building in capacity later. If they say we want to do this but not for three years, I'm willing to have the project be design so that can happen. Champion/The other good thing Karen, is we design it, we decided to put five stories on the Holiday Inn on top or a convention you could certainly add five stories of another library in 20 years. (All talking) Norton/ I guess we're going to have to meet again pretty promptly after you guys do a little bit of planning and talk with those folks. / When's the date for the survey? Singerman/It should be done, I believe in 4 or 5 weeks. / Be very careful, I hope it's... Norton/ Who's doing it? Singerman/I think a professional, I think she was trained in your department. Norton/ It better be, it better be, good. / Steve's got it figured out there. (All talking) Atkins/ Just so you don't get the pen. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 39 Atkins/ 64-1a, I thought today's meeting was intended to establish some guidelines for the Library Board to go back and put together a project to bring back to recommend to you. Champion/Haven't we done that? Atkins/ No. Well we're on our way there. Now in accordance of giving them their guidelines, one of the guidelines, and by the way, who gets to vote? Just the City Council? So if I have to count noses on these things, that's right. The library didn't get a vote. Right, so you're out. (All talking) Atkins/ No you don't get a vote. (All laughing/All talking) Vanderhoef/And we appreciate all that you do, all of the meetings... Atkins/ You alone are torpedoing it Jim, you should be careful. 64-1a is urban renewal parcel 37,000 square feet adjacent to the Holiday Inn across from the existing library. A partial use of it is acceptable to the council... Lehman/ To me that is preferable. Atkins/ Partial use is acceptable to the city council if the hotel demonstrates some interest. If they are not interested all of it is available to the library? Lehman/ I'm not willing to say that. Atkins/ O.K., that's important, then back it up and say then you're decision is 64-1a is partially available regardless what the hotel says, this is out. That's what you said? Norton/ I would like to keep that other option open too. Thornberry/I'm sorry, you did hear that. Lehman/ ...but, I really prefer that it be done in a joint effort with some other project, and that is not possible to do... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 40 Atkins/ / Atkins/ / Atkins/ Champion/ Norton/ Lehman/ Ernie, there's 37,000 square feet. The library needs an 80,000 square foot building. The library could use a 20,000 square foot footprint built four stories end of conversation. 17,000 is left over. Operating costs for 4 stories. We haven't gotten there yet. We haven't gotten there yet. Just be aware. If you've gotta have guidelines... You have to have every floor staffed. You' 11 have an atrium, you can see all the way up and down. That just took 5,000 square feet Dee that won't work. (All talking) Kubby/ We need to make sure that we create an impossible situation, that the paran~eters are such... (All talking) Kubby/ ...with our parameters. Lehman/ I agree, and that' s why it would be preferable to see something like that. (All talking) Kubby/ O.K. so that's a question mark. All of it is a question mark. Singerman/Even though people said yes to 64-1 a all of you said you'd like to see it combined with some other use. I mean it can be on top it can be below, it could public it could be private, so... Vanderhoef/So, what we're saying partially is to get some of that back onto the tax roll. Good downtown property... (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 41 Vanderhoef/I've said all along that this needs to have some kind of use, but the first choice is for private use. But the combined use, is it possible... Singerman/Everyone has said it would be better to combine with someone. (All talking) / I just have a question though. When you said private use, if the existing library became available for private use would that satisfy what you're trying to get in terms of restoring some tax base, would that be an acceptable way to get downtown Iowa City project back on the tax roll? If 64-1 a was completely committed to the public project and the existing library was completely committed to private use. Vanderhoef/That certainly helps the whole picture of it, I agree. (All talking) Thornberry/If the scenario works out and where we built a new library on 64-1a, and the old library is for sale or whatever. We can't sell 64-1a in 25 years, how in the world are we going to sell an old library? / The building. Thornberry/Yeah, there's a building and I know what will happen. It'll be taken over by by... (Laughter) Thornberry/ space, ah what to do you call it? No. Office space, not office space but meeting room space, it would be perfect for meeting room space .... (All talking) Kubby/ And actually at this point having up there multi-use required, because I don't think we're there quite yet. Multi-use preferred by a majority. Norton/ Preferred certainly. Champion/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 42 Kubby/ Especially when you look at the whole picture of disposition on the current library. Atkins/ But I think you need to look at the lot 20-30 years with all, although I wouldn't require a public use of it now, I would like to see it building structured in such a way you could add it later. I mean, we're always 20 years, you ought to be thinking of 40 or 50 years. / Remember, we only have to problem we have now because of the... Champion/I don't want to talk about it. (All talking) Lehman/ Steve, the other thing we need to do, we need to start at least express or investigate the possibility of what can be done with the old building... (All talking) Kubby/ There may be another question about how, so that there's, I don't want us to get back together to see the plans in an unrealistic time frame that's too soon that good planning can't happen, but I don't want it be too late that it closes off options for a November vote. I don't know what that magic date is. The Library Board and staff can deal with that. Lehman/ This is really going to, that's going to be they're call when they feel they're ready to bring back to us. / Talk a little further? Singerman/O.K., we certainly, we really want to keep you in the mood here so. / I'm sure you will. Atkins/ This all you've decided? Singerman/Can I ask one final question? Lehman/ Yes. Singerman/My late bullet type here, I think it would be helpful here if you could clarify for the public the issue of branch library, in relationship to operating costs. If we can't find the money to fund the operating costs for an expanded This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 43 downtown library, which are really relatively minimal, compared to the costs of a branch, that you can not find the money in the operating budget to fund a branch library. And I think it would clarify for a lot of people what the issue is. One of the reasons, you're primary concern, or at least. Lehman/ Primary reason that I'm not interested in a branch library is because you folks say it's not a good idea. If you thought it was a good enough idea... Singerman/You would find the operating costs? Lehman/ I don't know if we'd find, but obviously... (All laughing) Lehman/ There's a much better reason why you don't want a branch library. And no I agree with this. If we can't find the money to fund an expanded library, obviously, we obviously can't find it for a branch. But I think that the reasons you articulated as to why you don't want a branch library is the real reason why I don't favor one. Singerman/It's also helpful for people to know. Thornberry/Well, you were talking 30, 40, 50 years down the road, do you think we should be looking 50 down this road? Kubby/ And there will be a branch library in this community 50 years down the road. I know, I mean because all those studies that they cited state that it might be the next need of library services in our community because of the growth and increase in population that that's probably the most likely next step, the next couple generations down the road. Norton/ (All talking) Kubby/ (All talking) / I just had a question on the established interested placed by City Plaza Hotel. What if the interest of City Plaza Hotel is, while we'd like to look at it for five years? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 44 Lehman/ / Lehman/ / That's not interest. O.K. You're talking about In fairness. That they have a time flame. Immediate... (All talking) Atkins/ My read is establish interest means we might be interested in five years. We take that as a decision and decide, no we can't accommodate you in five years. Or yes, we can. Doing nothing and asking us to preserve the land is what that decision is. And that's not any different than where we are fight now. Norton/ And where, what form. Kubby/ Although part of me says if they said five years, I want a commitment that they're willing to make something happen because we could be sitting and waiting for some entity forever. (All talking) / Just have to finish the four or five year plan on another potential share use for the library is... Kubby/ Right, that' s also Vanderhoef/ (All talking) Putting this on a November ballot is clearly an expression of the sense of urgency, that the Library Board feels about a project that we feel should have been completed already. That is still back to square one. (All talking) Atkins/ Ernie? Norton/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 45 (All talking) Norton/ You can't blame all the loss on what it's tied to, this is a far cry from that. The uses that we're talking about here, sharing possibly with the hotel and the meeting kind of space that is involved is still a very important part of the library almost everywhere. Lehman/ Steve? Atkins/ Thought I spelled library wrong. I have a question, do you want to record while we have this time, other areas of agreement? The more you can agree on fight now, the easier the project planning becomes. Kubby/ Well, we've answered all the questions... Atkins/ How about your operating? What was the decision you made on operation? Lehman/ I don't think we've made a decision on operating expenses, but I think we do have ah really consensus on 64-1a. / Would it be fair to say that you're willing to go forward with a bond referendum given these other, given these parameters and punt on the problem of operating expenses for the time being, based on the library's willingness to come in and say that we will share in that burden. Thornberry/ What' s going to be your marketing plan in regarding operating costs? Norton/ Restraints and design. Champion/ I don't think they're going to have that. Norton/ They're gone have to because the public, the voting public is gonna ask that... (All talking) / That a new design will be a lot more efficient for reducing operating costs. / And you know I think if this goes to a referendum, 60% or more of the voters pass it, so it's gone be built, it's gone open, it's gone be operated. I predict that council at that time will work with the Library Board and find the money to operate. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 46 (All talking) And exactly, and you all have a political mandate to do this with this with that council at that time we'll have that political mandate, so you're really gonna get that kind of guidance from the public. (All talking) Thornberry/So there gonna come with it for the library they're vote for property tax increases, 13.5¢ or whatever it may be, it's gone cost us to build a new library. But they're saying yes I'm gone vote for this in November .... (All talking) Thornberry/Well, but the thing I don't hear, I don't hear any assurances or guarantees this council is gone agree to put this on the ballot in November. (All talking) ...we're not asking that decision, we're not saying we want to take it off in November (All talking) Lehman/ O.K., as long as we understand each other. We want to work with that time line and I think it depends on the Library Board to carry that ball and see if we put it in a position where we think we can pass it in November, and then we'll be back before then to see if what you guys think about it. Kubby/ Right, and it's not that we just the way, I'm very concerned how these are written on there, Atkins/ Well, tell me to change them. Kubby/ Is that we haven't, no that we haven't talked about time from yet. That discussion is yet to come. It doesn't mean there's no commitment to November. Atkins/ No commitment This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 47 :ubby/ Norton/ It means that there's no discussion about the time flame for the referendum at this time. The time frame is pending. Champion/The other is that... Atkins/ No decision. Champion/ ...It's not a special election, special election are... Norton/ You were having one on the 29th Of June. / Right. (All talking) Singerman/Thank you very much. Norton/ Good luck. (All talking) Atkins/ Well I can't take that one off. Flip Chart · Establish interests by City Plaza Hotel · 64-1 a - partial if hotel interested · - multi use preferred Old Library - alternate use? · No decision on op's · No decision on Nov. (Break 7:55) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 48 Review Zoning Matters 99-58 S1 Lehman/ O.K. are we ready? Franklin/ Yep Lehman/ Karin Franklin. Franklin/ All tight we've got some motions to set public for June 15th? The first one is on a rezoning in Windsor Ridge for ... (All talking) Franklin/ Well, are you listening? Lehman/ Tum up your hearing aids. Norton/ Don't attack my age, just speak (All laughing) Franklin/ I am speaking into the microphone, can you hear me now? Lehman/ O.K. Katin, he's got his hearing aid turned on. Franklin/ The first item to set a public hearing is a rezoning for 72 dwelling units in Windsor Ridge. This is for condominiums along Court Street extended. The next item for setting a public hearing is a requested change in the sign regulations for free standing signs. The third item is a request to vacate 10 feet of a right away on Washington Street it's between College and Washington, and between Lower Muscatine and Summit, it's that block. Those are setting public hearings for June 15th. The next item is the continued public heating on the Noaheast District Plan. You received in your packet the letters from Larry Schnittjer and the Home Builders Association as well the staff response. I guess we'll just entertain any questions that you might have or I don't know how you want to handle this. Lehman/ Well, Karin I don't know who's going come tomorrow night. In the absence of many significant public input it seem appropriate to, if there's interest on the council of discussing this further obviously you should do that. fired we could continue the public hearing. I mentioned to Karin earlier today I would really like to have the staffs response to the Home Builders and to Schnittjer be made an appendix to the point. It address specific questions I think very This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 49 Norton/ Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/ Norton/ Franklin/ / Norton/ well. I think that five years from now or eight years from now, whatever, if someone wants to read those things it becomes very clear what the plans intended to do from the answers to some of those inquires. So I think it should be made a part of the plan as an addendum. I guess, I'm, I was assuming that conceivably some of the issues that they raised were ones that might be an accurate incorporating of the wording, are you just trying to avoid that? I think that the ex, I don't have a problem with the plan the way it's drawn. I do have a problem with the way two different people can read it and reach 2 different conclusions and I believe that the answer given by staff make it very clear, at least to me, what that plan actually says, so that years from now or five or ten years from now, if we have a different staff and obviously different council and some different developers that would be as a part of the plan that they'd be able to refer to. Well, I find it difficult Emie, for example, there's several key issues, like single (Inaudible). Now I think the way the plan is written is correct and I disagree with the way for example Larry' s comment about it. Did you, you read the staffs comments? Yeah, I did. I did and I think there's a million ways, there's many, many (Inaudible) already in this town. All over the place. I know that. Therefore obviously a viable contest. Yeah, but the staff indicated that would it is assumed that the city is going to... That would mean no wording, no change in the document. Do you see any place in the document that needs to be changed or ought to be changed? For example, a blessing of conventional development... The only suggestion that we made in terms of the language change It's on page 143 Yeah, I understand. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 50 Franklin/ Oh, you're page 143. I was gonna say, it's not that big. Vanderhoef/I thought when we went through the idea of doing the, getting the public input as it presently stood, then it was going to come back and we were gonna do a work meeting on this and go through some of these things. Norton/ Whether to define it or not. Vanderhoef/Yeah, and depending on what we do, then whether we bring it back up for a vote or if there are significant changes then it'd have to go back P&Z obviously. O'Donnell/So you're saying you'd like to see this delayed? Lehman/ Delayed is not the right word. Vanderhoef/No, I'd like to have a council work session time to discuss this, we don't have the time to that tonight. Lehman/ That would just close the public hearing and put it on the agenda for a work session, is that right? (All talking) Kubby/ If we decide to make some changes that are considered substantial, I think we need to continue. Champion/Right. Kubby/ We close it or we can send it back to Lehman/ Well, if we make substantial changes we have to send it back to P&Z and that would require another public heating anyway. Norton/ Well, that's what I'm trying to decide. Is where we're going. Because I don't know that that all gets finessed, you just put those things in as independently and leave the working as it is. I'm not sure who's on first .... Lehman/ Vanderhoef/How about we delay indefinitely until we have that opportunity, because I'm not sure when it will go onto our work meeting. But leave the public heating open but not necessarily put it... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 51 Franklin/ Can I made a suggestion? Lehman/ Yes. Franklin/ That you continue the public heating to June 15th, which is your next meeting. Your next formal meeting. That we schedule the work session for the 14th or sometime before then to talk about this amongst the Council so that you can decide if you want to make any changes at all. Because what you may want to do is to make some minor language changes that are not substantive and it would not have to go back to P&Z, but you want to make those before you close the public heating. Norton/ I think that's what I hope we could do. Franklin/ O.K. Vanderhoef/I guess my concern was whether we had a date that we could have that. Champion/We have to give a date, because when you defer things people think you're never gone deal with it... Vanderhoef/ Champion/ .... but I definitely don't want to defer without a date. Vanderhoef/Well, I've had people keep telling me because the public hearing is open they think we are going to vote on it that time and that's a concern... Lehman/ O.K .... Franklin/ It's not on for vote... Kubby/ ...make that clarification... Norton/ ...but what we're planning to do is to meet them in between on it, would that be a meeting just of us, we don't need... (All talking) O'Donnell/Have you had the response to your response? Franklin/ No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 52 O'Donnell/I'd like to see that. Thornberry/ Have they gotten your response? Franklin/ Yes. We got their from the Home Builders Association, Larry sent his comments in quite awhile ago. Home Builders Association got comments to us on Wednesday. So we had to put that together to get into the packet by 9:00 Friday morning. So we sent the response to Larry and to the Home Builders Association. I have not heard anything back from them. Thornberry/Unless he hasn't gotten his yet. Norton/ This could be an infinite regress then. Franklin/ You haven't? O'Donnell/I want to see their concems... Thornberry/Maybe he hasn't gotten your response to his questions yet, so... Norton/ Maybe by the time we have the heating they'll have heard. Lehman/ All right then we will continue the hearings specifically ask the Home Builders and Larry for their reaction to staffs comments and then we will discuss it at the work session on the 14th. Champion/... discussion with them to argue the rebuttal? Lehman/ Well, it's be, the public hearing will be contingent on the 15th. So I mean they can talk to us again then. Norton/ But the implication is that we're gone make changes that are not so substantial that they... Thomberry/I don't think we know yet at this point. Kubby/ I guess the thing I want to make sure we loose is all the public process and the public hearing comments that we heard so that the only conversation we remember is from these entities that we're heating from at the end of it, so. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 53 Norton/ But we might want to remind some of those folks they may want to come back. Lehman/ All fight, we'll continue it tomorrow night. Franklin/ So, we'll continue it tomorrow night and you don't need anything from the staff for the time being, until you set a date for a discussion. (All talking) Lehman/ Marian says it's possible. Karr/ It's possible, I only have one other day that all seven of you are in town. Norton/ What's that date? I think it's risky to do it at a work session. Look what it takes us to get anywhere. Lehman/ Well, me have to meet earlier. Norton/ Meeting at 6:00. Karr/ You have on your agenda the possibility of and 8am meeting on the 2nd, but I understand there's one person gone for that one. So you don't even have that one. Norton/ I'm not here for the 2nd. Lehman/ But the 14th if necessary we could meet for example 4:00 .... Karr/ Start earlier, you're gone... (All talking) Thornberry/I'll be back that day, but not in the morning. Karr/ O.K. End 99-58 S1 Tape 99-58 $2 Norton/ A couple hours because this is a pretty heavy duty... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Champion/I don't think it's a good idea. (All talking) Lehman/ 4:00 on the 14th. (All talking) Karr/ 14th of June, starting at 4 Lehman/ Yep, all fight go ahead Karen. (All talking) Lehman/ I'm sorry. Karr/ The other possibility was later on the 2nd and you would have all 7. Vanderhoef/On the 2nd? Karr/ Correct. (All talking) Karr/ But not early. O'Donnell/At 4:00 Karr/ On the 14th?, O.K. Vanderhoef/Would people rather do it on the 2nd? Later? Kubby/ No. Vanderhoef/Wait a minute, we've got people still looking at calendars. (All talking) O'Donnell/Well, this is the only date that Kafin says we're all here, the 14th. Vanderhoef/Or later on the 2nd. O'Donnell/Of July. Page 54 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 55 Vanderhoef/No of June. (All talking) Norton/ I'm gone the 2"a of June as far as I can tell. At least I hope I'm gone. (All talking) Thornberry/So that' s the 14th at 4:00. Lehman/ 14th at 4:00 (All talking) Franklin/ O.K. next item is first consideration of an ordinance amending the ordinance the definition and parking requirements for carry out delivery and drive through restaurants we've been through that before. Second consideration on Silvercrest Rezoning. Then you will have to preliminary plat for Silvercrest which is a 5 lot subdivision. This is the preliminary the final will be at a subsequent meeting. Item H is the second consideration for the lighting standards. If you want to expedite and pass... (All talking) Franklin/ Item G is just the subdivision for Silvercrest. The different parts of Silvercrest are being divided up because they are going to actually owned and maintained by different entities. Vanderhoef/But does G is it contingent on the fact that we collapse on F or not? Franklin/ No, it's only a preliminary. Vanderhoef/O.K. Franklin/ So I would suggest you ahead with it. I mean they would like to have expedited consideration. Lehman/ On which one? Franklin/ On F. Champion/Well, I'm willing .... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 56 Norton/ Franklin/ Well, this is also one remember that it's already gone through an approval process it's in a fairly minor change. O.K. Vanderhoef/And they asked for this along time ago. Franklin/ Norton/ Franklin/ (All talking) Franklin/ Norton/ Franklin/ Norton/ Franklin/ Norton/ Franklin/ Norton/ Lehman/ Norton/ Yes. I'm having trouble with the residential thing. I'm confused cause I thought we were doing a... It's primarily resi.. It is, but it's residential. The only commercial part of it is the 9,000 square foot medical office building. Otherwise it's residential. It will be at OPDH 12. Of course, the big structures that they change. Right. Out lot A's still hanging there, right? O.K.? I'm back. All fight. H, O.K.? Lighting. I raised a question with lighting the other day at that meeting that many of us went to at... We all did. The discussion about whether you hold the meter horizontally or whether you hold vertically, seemed to me some consequence, (Inaudible) resolved at that meeting, but it seemed to me that if you were in the adjacent property if you're measuring it for sports purposes you'd probably want the light right at This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 57 (All talking) Kubby/ Franklin/ Norton/ the surface and hold it horizontally. But if you're off site the light you'd be interested in would be vertical plain I'd think. And I wasn't sure which... Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/ Franklin/ ... incidental light, so it would be vertical, right? Well, typically to measure light that is to measure the ambient light so that it does not vary by how you tilt it or you can hold it vertically and then stand in front of it. The point is you can manipulate that meter reading very easily by holding it vertically. Because it will as you turn it change that reading. However if you hold it horizontally which is the standard practice of how you do a light meter reading, then you get what the ambient light is there. Obviously, if you hold it up to a light fixture you get a much brighter reading. And so for the purposes of enforcing this ordinance we will use the standard for measurement which is to hold it horizontally. That's for our standards. Something doesn't feel fight to me. It feels like the light that's in the vertical plain. That could also be the glare though, from the bulb. Well, that's part of the problem. But that isn't necessarily going to be measured in foot candles. Then you're talking about an entirely different approach to the lighting standards. Thornberry/You can coordinate. Lehman/ Norton/ Franklin/ Vanderhoef/I think that's a real good idea. using needs to be spelled out. No. Does this ordinance spell out how the damn meter is held? It does not spell it out. We could include horizontal illumination shall not exceed 1 foot candle at property boundaries. So add a, whatever the standard is that we are Thornberry/Is that the standard Karen? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 58 Franklin/ Yes, the... Lehman/ Is there an industry standard that either you hold the light meter horizontally, vertically? Franklin/ Well, the resource that we used was a group called the New England Light Pollution Advisory Group, which is a, there was a publication, if not otherwise specified what candles are assumed to be horizontal that is measured on a horizontal plain. Champion/ Lehman/ I think we better leave it the way it is for the time being. O'Donnell/That's the standard? Norton/ Leave it horizontal? Franklin/ This is also the Illuminating Engineering Society, all of their published foot candles levels are by illuminating the horizontal foot candles. Lehman/ So that is a sort of standard use. Franklin/ Yes it is. Norton/ I see why. Because they're not concerned with light getting off, they're concerned with light getting on the surface in question. So, I still gone get my physics friends and figure this out. Kubby/ So what would be different? What kind of shift in thinking if we went to looking at vertical? Franklin/ Well, then you're the ambiguity of what you're measuring I think becomes greater in terms of what you get in the field. Because if I stand here and measure vertically and then turn that like that I'm gonna get a different reading from what I'm gonna get there. If I hold it horizontally here or here I'm gone get the same reading because you're getting that ambient light. Kubby/ I mean you could still be doing this thing ... Franklin/ Well, you could but you try to hold it as when, well sure you could. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 59 Norton/ Kubby/ Norton/ Lehman/ You see that my point is that you're over a horse shoe pit and you want to know what the light is that plain. Right. But if I'm standing there looking at the light, or if it gets into my house I want to know this plain, so, but maybe you're right, maybe leave it although I thought some of the people in the audience who I took it had some technical concern. But I've made a good point about this and it wasn't exactly well answered I didn't think. No, except that I think that the point out there, they take whether or not they take it horizontal or vertical they want it for comparison purposes only. To show what the shades will do. Champion/And they could never quite understand that. Lehman/ That's correct. O.K. Champion/It was a control. Lehman/ Lehman/ All fight. Franklin/ Lehman/ We're not for the time being. (All talking) I may have to bring it tomorrow night and spring it upon you. What are we doing any change? We're gonna get sprung on tomorrow night. Franklin/ Are we adding the word horizontal though? (All talking) Lehman/ No, no I think that it should be... (All talking) Franklin/ Are we adding a word to the ordinance or not? Lehman/ Do we need to add a word? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 60 Franklin/ Norton/ Franklin/ Lehman/ Franklin/ We do not believe that you do, but if you believe that you do, then go ahead. I will do some investigation and see ifI can't make it... Oh, we'll be looking forward to that Dee. Next. Next item is second consideration of the rezoning at Scott Boulevard and Washington. Court, the Mazotta? Project. This is for the elderly housing second consideration? Norton/ Vanderhoef/And expedited has been requested? Franklin/ Yes. And we have the preliminary plat on for that also. This will be a 3 lot subdivision. Remember it's not the entire deal. O'Donnell/I can't even see the wall. Norton/ That's a great map. Franklin/ What' s the matter with it? Thornberry/I got a question about that line fight there. (Group laughter) Franklin/ The only thing you have to concern yourselves with are the brown lines. The brown lines are the 3 lots that this is referring to and this is put up for your edification. Not for your amusement. Kubby/ Ernie's showing us where the brown line is. Franklin/ It does not include the lots along Hummingbird, Hummingbird? Yeah, Hummingbird Lane, which was the important point. O'Donnell/Where's Hummingbird? Lehman/ Right there. O'Donnell/Does it go up and down? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 61 (All talking). Franklin/ O.K., um the next item is a resolution approving a preliminary plat of Kennedy subdivision which is a county subdivision. It was in your packet do you need further explication of that? Norton/ I do only in the sense that is there any chance that is in the way of any future arterials down that way? Franklin/ No, Dane Road would be the arterial. If it were ever to become an arterial. Norton/ Then it would bend east across the river at some point. Franklin/ Well, actually Dane Road would be at a 90 degree intersection with the road that would go across the river potentially. So Dane Road running north/south it would basically parallel Oakcrest Hill Road and Sand Road on the other side of the river. Norton/ I didn't realize Dane is that arterial, there's another one west of Dane that I thought .... Franklin/ West? Maier, Naples, Vanderhoef/Landon is the one that comes down. Isn't that the one that is to be the 965 extended, is that fight? Norton/ Franklin/ It a little west of, it's west of there. Landon would have been 965 if we'd used the Slothower Road alignment. But because we're over west of there... Vanderhoef/O .K. Norton/ Franklin/ But I assumed that Dane wouldn't be the that the next one would be the, well maybe it doesn't make any difference anyhow It does not get in the way. We considered that Dane Road is probably the straightest shot north/south which is why we thought if it were going to be an arterial that would be it, and that would probably be some 50 to 100 years out there. But we do plan ahead. That's all I've got. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 62 Council Time, Review Agenda Items Kubby/ I have a quick, I hope a quick question for Karen at the council time thing, but I don't want to make her wait. Franklin/ That' s all fight I'm waiting for I want to hear the Work Force Development. Kubby/ So should I wait? Lehman/ No, no go ahead. Kubby/ At the new Walgreen's they are a little flags like what we put up around town on their light poles. Franklin/ Where is this, I'm sorry? Kubby/ At the new Walgreen's on the comer of First and Muscatine. Franklin/ Okay. Kubby/ And they have light poles that have arms on them and they have... Franklin/ Banners? Kubby/ . .is that something that is allowed? Franklin/ Banners are permissible now I'm not sure exactly what the perimeters are I'd have to look them up in the code, but... / What do the banners say? Kubby/ I can't, Mike do you know? Helling/ One-hour photos is on one. Kubby/ So it doesn't look like its promoting a specific event like, you know, there'll be burgers on Saturday or something. It's going to be a consistent... Helling/ A couple of them say one hour photos a couple of them say, I think, drive up pharmacy or something like that. Champion/Is that the way to get arotmd... Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 63 Franklin/ Banners are permitted to some extent but I think, um, or Jann in Housing Inspection Services. Kubby/ Okay. I'll ask that question. IfI find an answer I'll report back. (All talking) Vanderhoef/I thought there was something about a limit of time that a banner... Franklin/ Right and I think there is and it's for special events or something. Champion/They could just change it. Kubby/ Well I mean... Lehman/ Check it out. Kubby/ Can we have the staff check that out? Lehman/ Karin, tomorrow night we're going to be discussing the letting of the contract for Foster Road. I talked to you briefly about it this afternoon. Obviously the peninsula property and the adjacent land out there can't be developed or won't be developed until such time as that road can be built. And I guess I want your feel as to, you've been visiting with folks who have been looking at the peninsula property. What's your take is on the development, obviously the bid came in very good. And we got 3 million bucks tied up in that ground which I'd love to sell. Franklin/ I think if we don't do Foster Road, I mean right now we are on a slightly delayed schedule anyway so that it's going to be June of 2001 before its going to be driveable. That if we don't do this that we are going to have a hard time getting this development project done. The other part of it is there are other properties on the peninsula, Washington Park property, property that's owned by Bill Am, and property that's owned by Ed Cole. I've been talking with Bill Am and Ed Cole about development of their properties. So it all, its all connected and if were going to have development occur in this part of town which I think is one of the best pans of town for it to occur because its close in, its not going to require a lot of additional services. Initial investments yes, but we'll get the return on that with the development there so, I would really encourage you to go forward with this project, with Foster Road. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 64 Norton/ Emie's having the same kind of little butterflies as I am that, in other words, if the peninsula project were delayed for some reason we wouldn't just having a road to nowhere there still considering development out there. Franklin/ Well, yes there is a considerable amount of development land its also the water project is part of this whole project which I don't remember was the 4.9... Lehman/ We have to complete part of that weather or not we build the road we've got to do the water and sewer. I'm a lot more comfortable than I was with it earlier. Vanderhoef/I guess my question would be than is how much is lost on the cost of the whole project if we only did what we had to do with water at this point and not build the road? Franklin/ I can't answer that. Norton/ Where would that take us how far west... Franklin/ Steve, can you answer that? If we just do water and sewer and don't do a road. Vanderhoef/Well, the water plant things have to, have to happen from the wells up to the waterfront. O'Donnell/If you delay this a couple years it could cost a couple million dollars more. Oh and I don't think you can just carve out those pieces from this project and secure this bid you would have to re-bid it... (All talking) Kubby/ We've got a good price on something... (All talking) Norton/ With all the expenditures were making I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the peninsula is a, we'll have a customer for the peninsula. That' s what I'm worried about. Franklin/ Well were negotiating with someone fight now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 65 Kubby/ Franklin/ Cubby/ Will we still go through the public process that was outlined? Yes. Good. Thornberry/It's just the one fight? Kubby/ Yes that's fight. Vanderhoef/That's worrisome. Anything else for Kafin? Yes it would be nice to have more than one. Anything else for Kafin? Lehman/ Franklin/ Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/ Atkins/ Lehman/ Atkins/ Lehman/ I just noticed in regard to that Foster Road there's a ... Right half a million bucks. I wanted to comment to on that. That's probably somewhat of a surpfise, but what is happened is we can't get construction inspectors to do an in-house. In fact our senior guy has quit. So were in trouble on that. Norton/ What did you have a senior guy quit? Atkins/ We had our senior construction inspector, Tim Randall has resigned he's the guy taking the lead in most of these projects so were going to pay about twice what we thought we were going to pay. (All talking) He went away. No I mean its all very positive for him it's just that yah, yah. We can not get construction inspector so we can do this to the extent in house that we would like it to do. Quite frankly folks, we don't have much of a choice here. We've got to farm it out. All fight before we do anymore council time lets do the Workforce Development because were running late and we got somebody waiting. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 66 (All talking) Norton/ Let me fire up my machinery here. Lehman/ Yes what page are you firing up to since I don't have mine in here? Thornberry/What page you got Dee? Kubby/ Its on page 514. Norton/ Just a second I got to figure out what page here. (All talking) It's in the workstation I've got to go back to the workstation. It's the info packet with all the... One second and we'll be there. ...page 8. Thornberry/Of the info packet. Okay go ahead were all going to get there eventually. Okay. Were punching away. My name is Mark Moore I work for Iowa Workforce Development and I'm a consultant and I work out of Des Moines and my job is to work with the various regents. I know Dee, I've worked with her in the past. I'm here to talk to you about the Workforce Investment Act that was passed that will take the place of the Job Training Partnership Act and to talk to you of its make up and the responsibilities and liabilities that local elected officials can occur. Iowa had passed a law in '96 thinking that the federal government would pass there's in '96 but took the federal govemment another two years and there law changed some. But what this law does really is pushing the responsibilities and liabilities ofworkforce investment down to the local level. It is creating two major boards. One is the local elected officials, or the law talks about a chief local elected a chief elected official, Iowa is not Norton/ Kubby/ Norton/ Kubby/ Lehman/ Moore/ Norton/ Moore/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 67 big enough to have a single unit of government to have one region. So therefore in Iowa we are talking about forming a consortium of various local elected officials. We are inviting all the counties and all the cities over 50,000 to be a part of this consortium. This region is region 10 and is made up of seven counties. Also there were two cities over 50,000, Iowa City and Cedar Rapids also the city of Coralville has expressed an interest so we could have three cities in this consortium. One thing different about this Act than JTPA in, is the, I would call the additional liability that the local elected officials will incur. In the past in the JTPA if there was a misuse of funds the federal government came to the state of Iowa, recovered the funds from us and it was our responsibility to go to the JTPA grantees and recover the funds and if we couldn't get if from them than to go to the local elected officials. Under this act the federal govemment comes directly to the chief elected official, in this case a consortium to get the funds. You in turn would have to go to your operators to recover those funds. The state is taken out of that chain of event. There are two major boards, the chief elected officials, and the Local Workforce Investment Board. In Iowa that board will be the present regional advisory board which we will start to call the Regional Workforce Investment Board. That's a fourteen-person board, Dee sits on that board, representing city officials. There are five business people, five labor, one representative of county local elected official, one city, one person representing local school district, and one person representing the community college district. That's the fourteen people. In the past that board has been appointed by the governor because it was a board created by the state law. What the governor is going to do now is work with the local elected officials to appoint that board in the future as we have vacancies the local elected officials would receive the nominations, select at least two people for each position, send that up to the governor he would in turn look at that list he could add names take names off send it back down to the local elected officials for them to make their appointment to the Regional Workforce Investment Board. These two boards have a lot of responsibilities that they work together on. The first big one will be selecting who would be, what we call, the what the law calls a one stop operator in Iowa we call the court dating service provider. And you have three options on how you can do that. You can have a competitive basis were you would go out in a public type meeting and ask for proposals. You could ask three or more of the required partners, and I'll talk about who the required partners are, to form a consortium to be the one stop operator of CSP that would not have to be competitive. Your third option is to take the existing Coordinating Service Provider in place and have them be the new Coordinating Service Provider. That is a decision that you as the elected officials as a consortium would make how you wanted to do This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 68 that. Now the people who are required partners are for one would be Iowa Workforce Development, Mark Edwards who is the manager of our Iowa City office, is here tonight and all the programs he has under his direction. The community college, vocational rehabilitation, the agency on aging, green thumb, the community action agencies, and the welfare to work agency, and whoever you choose than also to be the provider of services under Workforce Investment Act. Originally, the federal government thought they were going to block grant many of the employment and training programs into one big community block grant and have it under the control of the local people. Well with all the special interest groups all they really did was took the fund they had in JTPA and that is now the Workforce Investment funding. All the other programs are still funded in their separate silos but are required to be a part of this system and to integrate to a service but their funding is still under the control of the various different agencies that have them. But your one stop operator that you would choose would be responsible than for coordinating all these various agencies. One of the things that has to be developed with all the required partners and any additional partners, because you can bring additional agencies in besides these required ones and that's a local decision, have to develop what we call is a memorandum of understanding with you and the local board. That memorandum of understanding will specify what services they will provide through the one stop center, how they will provide those, and how they will provide funding towards the operation of this center. Once that is developed and its an agreement signed between the local elected officials, the local board, and the various service providers, the one stop operators, or CSP as we call it, would be responsible to make sure they are doing what they would say they would do. There also has to be a local plan developed. You and the board would be responsible to see that that plan is developed, what services are going to be provided, how there going to be provided, and they should be the services that will meet the needs of your community' s here in this region. Its not so much a state plan as it is a local plan. Also, the state will negotiate the performance standards that should be met by this operating system. There is a third council that is appointed by the local board and that is a youth advisory council. This is something new, but under JTPA, if you're familiar with it, it had funding sources for adults, for dislocated workers, and for youth. And within the youth the broke out certain dollars that had to be used for summer programs and certain dollars that had to be used for year round programs. Under the Workforce Investment Act the youth is a block grant, locally you decide how many dollars you want to put towards summer, how many dollars you want to put towards year around. This youth council should be made up people who are experts in youth activities. They could be from juvenile justice, social agencies, from education they should be the ones developing what is needed to help prepare youth for the world of work. This This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 69 act really calls for a greater coordination between workforce development and education. One of the things we always hear from employers is the youth that are coming out are not prepared for the world of work. Hopefully business, education, and the local leaders can try to bring that a little closer together. One of the things that will have to be done is that the local elected official will have to come up with a 28E agreement as to how they're going to share the responsibilities as a consortium and how your going to share liabilities. Again that's a local decision how you want to do that. Then there will also have to be an agreement with the local board between the local elected officials how the two of you will make decisions, are you going to meet together and make the decision, is one group going to make the decision the other group look at it, how you going to solve differences if you don't agree. Because one is not over the other the two boards are equal so the decisions have to become, one can't veto the other. So, those type of things need to be worked out. Now it is my job to help you, the local elected official and the local board, walk through this process. I'm not going to tell you what to do, I'm going to tell you what the law says, I'm going to tell you what your options are and the decisions are made locally on how you want to do this. I know in the past under JTPA, you had a certain way you shared liability and I think it was based on population or something like that. That may be something that you want to continue to do. We do have a shell for 28E but there' s a lot of questions you have to answer so those can be put in. I don't know you had this stuff in front of you, I know I had a short time here so I didn't want to take up too, but give you some timelines. We would like to have the agreement with the local elected officials done by mid July. This act has to be implemented by July 1st of 2000. And decisions need to be made. A youth council has to be appointed, the regional workforce investment board will be updating needs assessment they did two years ago as for what are the workforce development needs for this region. Your going to have to choose your one stop operator or your CSP and your service providers we want that done by January 1st of 2000. And the local plan has to be developed and in to the state by April 1 st of 2000. Kubby/ Is there money for the implementation of setting all of this up? Moore/ There are some dollars that we can use from JTPA, 2% both at the state and local level so there will be some planning dollars that come down to the local level for that purpose. Kubby/ What does that amount to? (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 70 Kubby/ ...that might help with some postage and nothing else but it won't help with a person to help to coordinate. (Inaudible)...because the time frame seems so short we need someone to be paying some attention to all of this. Moore/ I think what you have done in the past you have normally chose someone from within your council to represent and we get all these representatives together then its my job to work with them then the representative take back what they have developed to each group for there look at input so they can come back together and see what changes they want to make. Lehman/ Dee you can do this. (All talking) Lehman/ You got the job Dee. Vanderhoeffl'm wearing two hats guys and that' s a question that I want to know whether you folks think that's consistent. Lehman/ I think you consistently wear two hats. Norton/ Which two hats are you talking about Dee? Vanderhoef/Well I sit on the Regional Advisory Board and I also sit on the LEO's (local Elected Officials) Board. Kubby/ So what kind of... Vanderhoef/What I'm saying is that this council can have some more input as long as I stay on the Regional Advisory Board and a different counselor could do this part. Norton/ Well this takes some looking because there's going to be a lot of wheel spinning in this if were not very careful with all these groups such large groups and you, no guidelines and nobody's on first and you got to work out a 28E and somebody's got to buy liability. It looks to me relatively complicated I think we better study it pretty carefully before we decide, whoever gets stuck with this its pretty heavy duty. Lehman/ You mean the one who has the opportunity. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 71 Kubby/ Dee is presenting it, as an opportunity to have two upper voices there and I don't think that's a bad idea. And it also doesn't place all the burden on Dee. Because these are big topics and she's unavailable and you know we each have 500 issues of any one meeting plus constituent work in our other lives. And I don't know that it's fair to expect Dee to... Norton/ Trying to read between the lines of this thing is not easy. Moore/ No. Norton/ ...exactly what is entailed here looks... Vanderhoef/...it's real complicated and it's gone get more complicated... (All talking) Vanderhoef/...I'm the first one to say I don't have answers. (All talking) Norton/ ... another one of those unfunded mandates. Moore/ Well, of course the Workforce Investment has the funding for the Workforce investment services. Norton/ But it limits it. Vanderhoef/Well, the funding is, JPTA is gone go away. Norton/ Yeah, I understand that. Vanderhoef/That is very clear. Norton/ But there is still a lot of work on the local level here to try to get this thing together... Kubby/ I think it would be great to have another council person and let Dee decide which one of the regional or the LEO's she would prefer because she's put the time in on this issue and then... Lehman/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 72 Vanderhoef/...we can't be assured of being reappointed. I got the original governor's appointment and reappointment and now this has all changed... Norton/ ..the old governor? Vanderhoef/The old govemor. / You're in trouble. Vanderhoef/I'm in trouble? Lehman/ (All talking) Lehman/ Steve. ...will get something to us and I think that if someone has a buming interest in the council and would like to do this, please speak up, but we'll get our thing from Steve... Are these meeting gonna be in Cedar Rapids? Vanderhoef/Yep. Lehman/ Moore/ The next regional advisory meeting is going to be at the Highlander in Iowa City. Vanderhoef/And that' s gone be the combined with the PIC (Private Industry Council) and the LEO's? Moore/ (All talking) Moore/ Norton/ Moore/ Right. And that's gone be the 25th. And then I think on the 27th we're gone have the Leo meeting, just the separate LEO meeting. I though it was cities over 50,000? How does Coralville... Anyone under 50,000 can also request to be in, O.K. We are extending the invitation to all the cities over fifty. But if another city is interested in being in... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 73 Vanderhoef/There is a history on that too, Dee. That by population is one thing and in some places it's only counties and supervisors and having certain numbers of representatives on the Leo board. Years ago, evidentially, Johnson County said we'll take one seat and Coralville take one seat, and Iowa City take one seat. So, in this last year, year and half that got formalized. Kubby/ Vanderhoef/It was a traditional thing that was happening at that point. Norton/ This is another thing, I think we ought to think about Linda's role... Kubby/ Severson? Norton/ Because it seems to me this is closely related to some of the things she did do in my judgment, trying to keep some of these things straight might be something useful to consider in her job. Vanderhoef/Well, she will be involved Dee, through the CSP. Norton/ ...the govemor's salary and I keep... Kubby/ ...new lingo... Vanderhoef/I'm sorry the one stop operators or the Coordinated Service Providers is where Linda comes in and I'm... (All talking) Lehman/ (All laughing) Atkins/ (All talking) Atkins/ We' 11 have it worked out. Vanderhoef/ How soon will you have something to us? As soon as I get through all the acronyms, initials... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 74 Atkins/ We know where he is and we know where he is and we know where she is so we'll figure it out. Lehman/ Let' s leave it with you guys and then we'll, you can report back to us. And then Mr. Norton if you choose to volunteer we'll accept your... Norton/ I'm not trying to volunteer, I'm just trying to comprehend it... (All talking) Norton/ ...I gotta pitch to the wind? (All laughing) Atkins/ I got big shoulders. Vanderhoef/Mark is doing some double duty fight now too because our regional person is ill so Mark had helped us... Norton/ ...sticky, one of those things... Moore/ I will say, I'm here and I'll leave cards with you so, you can get a hold of me. Lehman/ We'll kind of leave this in your court with Steve... (All talking) Lehman/ No, I don't think we do, but I think maybe I gotta good idea. Thank you. (All talking) Atkins/ ...will ultimately have to figure this out. (All talking) Lehman/ O.K. guys, agenda items we skipped that one, we're back there. Atkins/ Ernie, I have two agenda items to give you a heads up on. PIN grants tomorrow night. Kafin before you go, video on PIN grants, fifteen minutes or something like such as that... Lehman/ Tops. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 75 Atkins/ ...ifI could present that to you. Vanderhoef/Can I ask on PIN grants, we voiced a year ago comments about alleys and now alleys have come up again and I still have this concern that people are going to be saying oh, but you take care of alleys which our policy is not. And each year that is comes back and is approved it sort of reinforces a... Atkins/ I think Dee, you might be a tad bit ove~y concerned. It's not uncommon in the course of a year for a neighborhood to get together and ask for a load of gravel, we'll spread it. I mean we don't really maintain it, but we'll do it merely as a routine maintenance... (All talking) Atkins/ Now paved alleys, that's big bucks. Vanderhoef/Yeah. Atkins/ We haven't done that. Vanderhoef/And we don't buy the gravel? Atkins/ Yeah we do. (All talking) Atkins/ We do it substantially as a courtesy. Lehman/ And gravel is pretty cheap. Norton/ Vanderhoef/ Norton/ ...and when it used to unpaved then it used .... Thornberry/ Norton/ I think there was a splitting there. You know the city used to either bring, you know they'd haul but you paid for the gravel... (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 76 Kubby/ Norton/ Franklin/ We will scrape, the city will grate and then roll the gravel and then dump it. But the homeowner, the property owner pays for the load of gravel. (All talking) Franklin/ ...and that's what this does it just insert that PIN money... (All talking) Vanderhoef/So the city is paying for the gravel... (All talking) Franklin/ Lehman/ Atkins/ / Atkins/ Lehman/ Atkins/ Lehman/ ...and that's where the confusion can happen. We'll just tell everybody the neighbors are paying for the gravel. The Iowa River Power Dam we're recommending ... (Inaudible)... came in kind of high, about 27% over. Not without some risk probably ... (Inaudible)...this is not something that has to be done. The dam is not in jeopardy of falling in or anything such as that, but it is a set back for the trail. It's a set back for the water project somewhat. Well eventually have to do this. I've asked Chuck to take a look at what other options... cool. We do have to get power to the peninsula. We'll probably have to string a wire across, not the most attractive, but we have to get power there for our wells and we were going to do that with this project .... Steve, I have a couple questions. First of all the walkway that was to do on top of that bridge, do you have any idea how wide that was? No. Somebody told me today that it was gone be adequate to carry an ambulance. Is that true? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 77 Atkins/ (All talking) Thomberry/ Atkins/ Lehman/ Atkins/ Kubby/ (All talking) Atkins/ Lehman/ Atkins/ Lehman/ Atkins/ Lehman/ Atkins/ Vanderhoef/ (All talking) O'Donnell/ (All talking) I doubt that... It may be eight feet wide. I was told by somebody for the Natural Riverfront, natural areas or whatever, which really surprised me... It was built for pedestrian, bicycles, things... But there is a significant impact to the trails folks and... Yeah, there is. The Riverfront Commission. I mentioned this briefly, I suspect that before we get through with this, we're gonna take a look, at least peak, at what it would cost to build a new dam. When I talked to Chuck, Chuck had been on vacation last week, he said that we could step back and just kind of rethink the whole project. I mean, worst case, we'd go back to what we have and do that sometime later on... But from the easement standpoint and whatever it would eliminate a lot of problems if a new dam were close to... ..if you put... ...close in cost... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 78 Atkins/ (All talking) Atkins/ Norton/ Atkins/ Norton/ Atkins/ Norton/ Atkins/ Norton/ (All talking) We'd have to pay ... At the time we're recommending don't... What in the world do you think new is going to be discovered though, is it about the dam or about the need for a pool or... The pool is not going to change. That issue... ..is not going to change. Then... It's a matter of is this dam reconstructed in this fashion at this location... Lehman/ Unless they build mirrors the shape of a damn and... (All talking) Norton/ I'm not sure, do they think they are gone find new deficiencies in the dam if they look again? Atkins/ I just don't know. Thornberry/They said they didn't know whether it was build with boulders, whether it was hollow, they don't know anything about the inside of that thing... Norton/ ...divers down there? Atkins/ We did. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 79 Thornberry/But ah, and this anything like that, like say for example they find that it needs something inside that like I say, they didn't know if it was hollow, they didn't know what kind of rocks were in there or if there were big solid boulders in there or whatever and if they get in there, then it's going to adjust... (All talking) Thomberry/...their bid so it may go considerably higher than their original. Atkins/ Water levels are high. Norton/ ...that was all investigated. We looked at the footings of the dam and made sure it wasn't being undercut and things... Atkins/ To my knowledge that kind of work was done, the construction of the upper dam and the water being this high, there is also an element of risk. Look at some of those bids. They were like $800,000 apart, somebody saw something there. If they were close, we may have recommend something, it's just risky. Kubby/ So when we string that utility line I assume that we will avoid... Atkins/ Oh, yeah. Kubby/ ...or even birds, cause there are a lot of birds. Atkins/ Yes. Lehman/ We'll put a sign that says no birds sitting on the wire. Norton/ (All talking) Atkins/ Also you have your public discussion tomorrow night on transit, you also notice under your consent calendar the thinking was tomorrow night is a public discussion, you may choose to make changes, you must by federal requirement have a formal hearing. We picked June 15, the next meeting. You may make some changed. If as you think about it, the 15th tOO SOOn, I'm just saying you have to have a public heating. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 80 Kubby/ ...you'll remember that Joe was talking about if we make changes to the current system, timing is important. Atkins/ Yes. Kubby/ We don't want to make decisions too late in the season so we can't start in the Fall... Atkins/ We think we are in pretty good shape... (All talking) Norton/ Well, I want to make sure I understand this, no changes are yet in stone, fight? Lehman/ Right. Well the other thing... End tape 99 58 S2 Tape 99-59 S1 Lehman/ indicate why we have what we have. In other word's, with direction of council for transit to look at our operations to see if there' s a method by which we can be more efficient and carry more people that it was. a this was just an idea just a proposal nothing is cast in stone. But it will set the stage for public discussion which I think it's very important. In fact, I think in most cases from now on at public hearings wherever there' s going to be we think there may be controversy. We're gone try to have a staff person lay it out so that we can answer some questions maybe before they even come up. But that's the way it will start tomorrow night. I suspect Joe's presentations will be 5 minutes or less. Which will still leave 55 minutes for the public. The public hearing will be set during the consent calendar for the 15th Of June, than can be continued if we need to do that. I have a problem with setting the heating. Kubby/ Will there be audio/visuals so that when people, are kind of talking about well, less means less night service I'll have to walk six blocks, that they can point to something or we can see exactly, or I mean are there are there overheads of those maps? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 1 Norton/ Kubby/ (All talking) Atkins/ Lehman/ Kubby/ Well surely there must be because we've got copies of... We should bring our maps... I don't know. Norton/ ...absolutely, he'll have them I sure Karen ifhe's got all those sheets. (All talking) Norton/ Can he make overlays of those? Vanderhoef/ Norton/ Atkins/ Norton/ / Norton/ They had them on boards. We want them projected cause that's just not good enough. Yeah. I'll check that tomorrow. I've got another... Yeah. ...on the SEATS business. Now the 20¢ we agreed to pay SEATS back is that because of the wear and tear we put them? That' s inclusive of my... Vanderhoef/ Atkins/ That is the price negotiated for this transfer that allows us to use those vehicles off-time operation. Norton/ But they are our vehicles aren't they? Vanderhoef/Yes. Atkins/ Well they are our vehicles... Norton/ But we're paying 20¢ a mile to use them. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 82 (All talking) Vanderhoef/Well, the contract though is that they still have full maintenance on them. Norton/ I understand that but we could have done the maintenance and financed the cash. (All talking) Vanderhoef/To do maintenance that way then you reopen the other contract. Norton/ My only thought was that rather than spend money we could have said we'll do the maintenance if that' s in lieu of 20¢, you understand. Vanderhoef/But that messes up the whole rotation of the schedule and so forth. (All talking) Kubby/ Why is Johnson County? Is it Johnson Cotmty's program? Why isn't it Johnson County owning the vehicles and we lease them for that? Atkins/ Vanderhoef/Johnson County gets their vehicles from ECICOG fight? And there' s two different federal programs of how the money comes down for transit. One is for the rural and one is for cities with transit... Kubby/ ...we can't use those vehicles... (All talking) Vanderhoef/... ECICOG... Kubby/ ...that's all I needed. Atkins/ Yes. O'Donnell/How many are we financing? Atkins/ Eleven? (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 83 Vanderhoef/Well, there' s only four of them that to look in the criteria (All talking) Atkins/ Bottom line folks, is that ECICOG has said it's now your responsibility and this is the deal... (All talking) Norton/ How do we replace them? (All talking) Vanderhoef/We go out for bids like does Cedar Rapids and everybody else... (All talking) And what do we use for money? Norton/ (Inaudible) Norton/ You go out to buy a SEATS vehicles and these are all of them five or six of them maybe eight of them maybe have over 85,000 on them. Atkins/ It'll be in the contract. Vanderhoef/But it comes through JCCOG. Atkins/ DC Vanderhoef/No we'll be coming through JCCOG and you know when we approve the federal budget for operating and for equipment and stuff like when they wanted to put in the TV cameras and stuff, well there's a way that we apply for city transit vehicles. Norton/ So we could presumably... Vanderhoef/And we already have a procurement office within... (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 84 Norton/ Sometimes I think we ought to just get with it and go into some kind of regional government there are so many people trying to take us apart and get a piece of the pie... Atkins/ One of these, Dee, this really wasn't broken that decided it was time to fix it and I don't know what else to tell you. And I think we've got the best arrangements we're gone make. Now if have to go buy replacement that's just simply gone be a number. We're gone use when we negotiate with our SEATS with the county in the future. Say, we had to pay for this that's what we're going to get certain credits for that. Kubby/ either the cost is gone be on them but comes back in our contract ... (All talking) Atkins/ ...either way it'll wash. Vanderhoef/It's same vehicles and it's the same support. It just comes out of two different pots at the federal level. Lehman/ Nothing is easy. Atkins/ No, it's not. Kubby/ I hope I have an easy question, it's on the agenda. Lehman/ O .K. Kubby/ It's on page 4 in the consent calendar about the metered spaces on Clinton Street from Market to Church. I'm wasn't sure that we had concluded our conversation about angle parking up and down Clinton, but maybe we did and said we were only going to look at Market south, I can't remember. If that' s not the case then maybe we should hold off on this until we've made that decision if that is the case. Champion/ (All talking) Kubby/ O.K. south of Market for possible angle parking. Lehman/ I think that' s fight. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 85 Norton/ We're still looking at this side of Market. Lehman/ Right. Vanderhoef/What the bottom line was that they only thought we were get a few extras in due to the safety issue... Kubby/ ...it wasn't worth it... Vanderhoef/Which I was surprised when there were that many fewer spaces. I really expected to get a lot more. (All talking) Kubby/ Norton/ Kubby/ (All talking) Champion/ ...this will be done if we vote on it. ...we have a few people... So there were some people on so I want to understand so I can think about this overnight. If there, I know that part of town is older it's more dense there's not current amounts, if it were a new an apartment building for example or house with many multiple units in it, the number of off-street parking. So where do those people go? Especially, if their homes faces Clinton Street? And they don't have, they're grandparented in without the off-street parking issue. Where do they go? They just into other parts of the noah side. They're now on Clinton, Street if they can get a space. Now it's metered. So they're going to have to pay for that. Vanderhoef/...in talking to one of the neighbors up there awhile back, ah they feel that the street storage for cars that students don't register. And that there are storage lots available for all the university students to use. Norton/ How do you get them off the street though? Vanderhoef/Well, once they register the car then they have to have a sticker and it has to go... Norton/ Well, what if they don't register? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 86 Lehman/ Well, then they feed the meter. Vanderhoef/...that's the point. They're getting free parking tight now. the storage places where the other students who Kubby/ (All talking) Atkins/ Lehman/ (All talking) Without going to Atkins/ But there are also non-student residents who live in that neighborhood can we be... (All talking) Joe will be here tomorrow night I know I'll give him a head up if you'd like to question him before you go the heating. Well, yeah we did. But so did the university. Both parties understood Connie that Vanderhoef/The turnover is what's neighbors been so, the person that I talked to up there said there's just no oppoaunity ever to get a parking place because it never turns over. So they thought it would be something they ... O'Donnell/ Vanderhoef/...so they can invite somebody over and think that they'll be able to get a parking place and come play cards or whatever... (All talking) Norton/ ...done deal... Lehman/ Yeah, we'll ask Joe tomorrow. O'Donnell/I think it should be if you go by, particularly on snow removal some of those cars don't move for weeks. Norton/ I agree, but I think what Karen is concerned about is adding the meters just exacerbates the problem in other parts of the near noah... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 87 Kubby/ ...fight... (All talking) Norton/ ...over to Fairchild and over in there you know then you where it's already a problem... Vanderhoef/The people we've visited with different times and talked with them, people that on the east side of Dubuque St. and they have chosen at this point not to go to permit parking and various different options that were offered to them. And they may change their mind, but they have the street storage at least all day long of the free parking... (All talking) Vanderhoef/ Thornberry/... and into more residential area I think if the people get that upset they'll call and have them towed. Norton/ Thornberry/If they're not moved at least 2 1 feet or whatever the hell it is. (All talking) Norton/ ...we did have a correspondence from the University wanting this? Lehman/ That's correct. Vanderhoef/Yeah Thornberry/But I think if they get more into the residential and they will move and they will do that. But I think the residents will take care of that if they a problem. (All talking) Norton/ Incidentally, I somebody telling me the Tower Court thing is working beautifully. Lehman/ Is it? Good. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 88 Kubby/ From which side of the issue... (All talking) Kubby/ ...no, you'd think that one antidote to make that the you know the bench ... (All talking) Norton/ All the people that were for us and all the people that were against us. Vanderhoef/That's called compromise, isn't it? Lehman/ O.K. Other agenda items. Thomberry/Yes, I have one. Who, ah we, do we not appoint the people that serve on the police citizen review board? Lehman/ Yes we do. Thornberry/Do they interview the people before they apply to us? Lehman/ No, they can talk to them. Thomberry/They were talking in their minutes what question they were gone ask... Kubby/ No, that was for the attomeys. Lehman/ That was for the attorneys. Thomberry/Never mind. (All talking) Lehman/ No, no I read the same thing and I thought it and then I read it again and those are questions they want to ask their legal council. Vanderhoef/I just wanted to ask about the sidewalk caf6 and our downtown refurbishing fight at the moment. How are we handling the safety issue of that when we're narrowed down? / Like when people step on brick... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 89 Lehman/ (All talking) (All talking) Sidewalk caf6 in from of Java House is completely done except for putting the light up... Lehman/ ...there's no problem there. Vanderhoef/O.K. but I just want to stay aware of those all the way around down there as we're going along because it does constrict the street. Lehman/ That construction company 's doing a tremendous job. Unbelievable how fast they are. Vanderhoef/And Ed, McGinnis's down there all weekend long in the rain and sprinkles or whatever... Lehman/ That's Sunday too. Vanderhoef/Yeah, all weekend is what I said. Champion/We don't waste time. (All talking) Lehman/ Any other agenda item? Norton/ I'd like to airport, the terminal? Champion/Oh yes. Lehman/ Yes. Champion/...packet... Atkins/ Some lousy ones. (All talking) Norton/ Well that's because there are too many unknowns in that thing yet. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 90 Karr/ Could we just confirm the special meeting for 8:00 June 2nd. We'll have at least four council members here? That's that special, it's three. Champion/I think I'll be here. Kubby/ Well we need a consensus. Karr/ June 2nd 8:00, if not we'll want to change the meeting time. O.K. thanks. (All talking) O'Donnell/It's sort of housekeeping. Karr/ It is. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Is it anything more than setting that public hearing? Karr/ We'd thought about putting non-substantive, like Consent Calendar take care of some minutes for you June 15th meeting, things like that but nothing substantive. Lehman/ Or we may do a housing call to see budget review... (All laughing) Lehman/ We may run the Iowa River Power Dam right through. New civic center June 2nd. (All talking) Lehman/ ...that's right, you don't show up you're not on the committee... Vanderhoef/Speaking of that though I just gave Karen the invitation for that meeting and ifthere's somebody interested please come out to the Highlander on next Tuesday from 10:00 to 2:00 they're going to feed lunch. But, ah they're gone go through all this and it will be the three different boards to pick from LEO's and ah Rep. Lehman/ Can you give us when you come back, one page synopsis of what's going on out there? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 91 Norton/ Lehman/ At most. At most one page. Vanderhoef/At most one page. Thornberry/Or two minutes on the phone. Vanderhoef/Have you ever talked to me for two minutes on the phone? O.K. then, you know that's not possible. Thornberry/ (All talking) Lehman/ Mr. Norton and I became involved as the rules committee, in developing this fabulous policy for absences for boards and commissions which we felt we were ordained to do by at least one or two board or commission. And we worked tirelessly and we've met and met again and we've discovered at least it appears from the minutes of various boards and commissions that I've read that they have no interest whatsoever in an absence policy. Kubby/ I think we should just drop it. Lehman/ And so I was going to recommend that ignore the tireless efforts of the rules committee until such time they approach us and ask us again, which by the way we were asked. But we drop this and let them set their own or whatever... Norton/ ...draft a Holiday rule... Lehman/ O.K., now we will not make an appointment to the police citizens review board because we haven't got an application. Will we have to readvertize for that Marian? Is that a 30 day period? Karr/ Yes it'll be the 29th of June I believe. Kubby/ Marion would you get me and anyone else who wants it a list of the people who originally applied? Karl?/ You have it on laser fish also. Kubby/ Oh I can just, I'll get it. IfI can't I'I1 call you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 92 Lehman/ Lehman/ Karr/ Lehman/ Karr/ Kubby/ You've also got a hard copy of this passed out to us. don't keep... Way back. No not everybody got that. Yeah, we did. You did. You did. (All talking) Lehman/ All fight I haven't really kept. I Kubby/ Lehman/ O'Donnell/ Lehman/ Kubby/ Lehman/ Kubby/ Norton/ Dilkes/ Kubby/ ...well anyway 40 people boy, so we might go through... All fight we have now council time, does anybody wish to? Yes, Karen Maybe Parks and Rec minutes it's on page 69 of the 5/18 packet it's in the packet about Willow Creek Trail. It says something here about ah connection of the trail was included in the developer's plat that was never made legally binding. I'm concemed about that. So, how do we make things that are shown a plat legally binding? So, that we don't have this kind of issue in the future. Like a part of the trail didn't get completed fight? For whatever reason... I could just follow up with Sarah on that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 93 Norton/ Another part of this... Lehman/ They're doing wildflowers. Thornberry/ (All talking) Lehman/ All fight (Gavel) any other council time? Champion/You know the other thing I thought was interesting in the minutes of the Park and Rec was how well attended, I guess it wasn't minutes, the skateboard... Atkins/ ...it went better than we thought... (All talking) Norton/ Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/ Kubby/ Norton/ Atkins/ Norton/ Atkins/ Norton/ Atkins/ ...calls... Yes. I had one. I'm sure Margaret called didn't she? You got it. ...but she some interesting points about think carefully about whether Terrell Mill was the fight place for that, given the traffic, given the availability of nice skating areas near by and you know it was kind of a passive park as it started it's still one of our attractive interests I think it would be... We put an oversized walk in there recently... What was that? There's an oversized walk way there. South? Yeah, on the south side. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 94 Norton/ Arkins/ Norton/ But I'd have to come down Dubuque Street hill I mean you can get virtually from downtown all the way out there. Lehman/ (All talking) Norton/ But it I don't know where the alternative is. I'd like to see them up closer to town. I know they're struggling with that. Dee I think one of Margaret's concems about that is becoming active in Idyllwild or the Church parking lot are probably not valid because they don't like to skate where there are not ah what do I want to say, challenges. They love... (All talking) Champion/ They'd be over that far I just want to be sure this if it goes down there but this is up to the Park and Rec to make a recommendation to us I'm just concerned that park is a park and relatively quiet picnic area and that changes it's character so sad even though I'm all for having something, I just wonder if it will go that far. O'Donnell/ I agree with you Dee, she had some very points. If this park's going to be successful, it should be accessible and maybe move that to Mercer or City Park. Norton/ Or how about the Pentacrest? That's what I thought. Lehman/ There you go. O'Donnell/I just think that's too far out. (All talking) Kubby/ How is City Park closer than Terrill Mill, I mean not much...? Lehman/ Terrill Mill and City Park, City Park would be closest... Kubby/ This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 95 Lehman/ I don't think the skateboarders are nearly as compatible with other users of a park. I'd much rather see them in Terrill Mill than City Park. (All talking) Lehman/ Ever try to dodge one of them going down street here7 O'Donnell/I'm quick as a cat, Ernie. Lehman/ Well I'm not, but then I'm older than you. O'Donnell/You're older... All fight all fight... We'll see if some recommendation ... Lehman/ Norton/ Champion/ (All talking) Norton/ Margaret had me out there actually they were pretty good, one is she herself had a near accident with a garbage can flew into the street. Now I don't know what the answer is you know she's going along Lower Muscatine and slams on her brakes when the garbage can appears gets hit from behind by two cars and I don't, what do other places do with garbage cans? Atkins/ They hit the cans. Lehman/ You run over the cans. Kubby/ You mean that you can't prevent... (All talking) Norton/ The city has those great big ones to use that lifts up with an arm and ... Lehman/ Those you don't run over. (All talking) Kubby/ But when they're empty? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 96 (All talking) Atkins/ Put out bags forget the cans. Norton/ I was thinking of a stake to tie mine down so they won't blow into the street. Kubby/ Our collection can't stake everybody's garbage can or we'll have to have .. (All talking) Lehman/ All fight. Norton/ ... and incidentally is the Welcome Center being well taken care of up there? There was some talk about a Welcome Center that's on North Dubuque (All talking) Kubby/ ...much more than a Welcome Center... (All talking) Norton/ Other wise it should not be there fight? It needs to look functional... Lehman/ I don't think that you can bum in the city limits. (All talking). ... talking about some structure up there somebody was... Norton/ Arkins/ Yes. (All talking) Atkins/ Norton/ Kubby/ (All talking) Norton/ Yes, that talked about. That's the Chamber of Commerce, Home Builders... But that was going to be a huge building not a small one. I still think it's still nice to have but there's nothing worse than one that's dead. Welcome Center that is. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 97 Kubby/ Norton/ Atkins/ Norton/ Atkins/ But it's much I mean it would be a function of the Welcome Center it be organizations... Yeah, I understood that. That would be a rather difficult. I haven't heard anymore about it. Well anyhow who is responsible for that P & R? No, the Chamber of Commerce take the lead in but we haven't heard back so the... (All talking) Atkins/ I don't know... Lehman/ Convention and Tourism Bureau I thought. Atkins/ I' 11 find out. Norton/ Well somebody says the light keep going out but even if they do they should keep getting replaced. Vanderhoef/Well, CVB pays for the lights and that stuffthat's on their budget. Atkins/ Vanderhoef/O.K. if that's a problem I'll call them up let them know. Lehman/ O.K., Dean. Thornberry/One question about Terry. With the parks and rec on the skate board park is that location been designated by Terry? Atkins/ No, no just talked about. That was the one that came out of the discussion. Reporting what happened. Terry has not ... Thornberry/Will we know beforehand? Because I did get a call from her about that .... / She called everybody. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 98 Atkins/ I think that ultimately the parks and recreation commission will have to make a recommendation to you all. Thomberry/I kind of suggested to her that I thought the location might not be bad if were down in somewhere in the neighborhood of the softball fields and or the soccer fields somewhere in that area, because that's where young people go for activities. Lehman/ I don't think they will ever go down there. Thornberry/Well, hell we've got a 8 billion dollar trail that goes under... Lehman/ Don't think they're gone go under... Vanderhoef/We've got skateboarders that are going to Davenport to skateboard the really active ones. Thomberry/Well then why won't they go down there? Vanderhoef/So if there's an interest I think they will go further than downtown. Norton/ (All talking) Lehman/ All fight. Karen, I'm sorry. Dee Vanderhoef/O.K. I'm just bringing this as a concern for me that way we receive minutes from our commissions is very late in some cases other are very prompt and even those people like P & Z who are prompt there are still times that we talk at council and maybe even act on something before we have ever received the minutes on that issue. I would like to see, ah some sort of a policy that looks like all commission minutes need to be reported back to council six weeks, five weeks and if they have discussed in a meeting that is going to be on council agenda at least that portion of the meeting be reported in our packet so that when we have a public hearing, I know what's already been said. Sometimes people come to the public hearing and say something that they've heard at P&Z and I haven't even read it. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Not real often, but, but well thanks to Marian I have a list of the commissions and ah how when their meeting date was and at what time they This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 99 reported those minutes back to us. And some people are waiting five and six months before they report back. Norton/ I understand there are some. I thought P&Z... Vanderhoef/P & Z does a real good job. However, last meeting we acted on two things that happened to be those letters to, ah the county about things out in our fringe area and in this packet are the minutes that have that discussion. Norton/ Seeing it was the second discussion, I understand what you mean. About business, yes. Vanderhoef/And I don't need the whole big minutes and whatever they would compile from that meeting for us could be inserted into their final minutes whenever it comes and I don't want to rush them in all of that... Norton/ Could be a separate segment you mean. Vanderhoef/Just a segment that says this is the discussion that happened on this issue so that I... Norton/ Kubby/ Yeah, I don't want I don't think that I'd want to make a rule but that is something we can tell staff to be conscious of on their Wednesday's agendas to make sure that we get that in. Vanderhoef/...six weeks is to long though? Kubby/ Yes, because they have to meet again to approve the minutes and if there are substantial changes to the minutes and we get the draft minutes and then it's changed... Lehman/ ...copies... Vanderhoef/The only thing that I saw, that there must be some way to design, because I thought about that too Karen, and that can be a concem and everything can be written as draft and then if there are no substantial changes then I say don't reprint... Lehman/ Well... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 100 Vanderhoef/...just go ahead and insert them into the public record and not reenter them into our packet. Lehman/ Particularly decisions on P & Z that are unanimous, I'm not as concerned as with those that are a real controversy. Kubby/ Well, even if it's a unanimous vote issues are brought to the surface to make sure that they've been talked through so that this is a pre-cursor understanding for me. Vanderhoef/The other place that it happened for me this year were the HCDC and we didn't get some of those minutes until the night we, in the same packet on the night we were voting on it we had already had announced the public hearing, we had had the public hearing and then we were already into the voting and we were just getting the full discussion and to me, I would like to hear what those people had to say I don't call each one of them and ask them how did you come down on this or what was the discussion, you know. So to speed them up and make sure they are timely for our dissuasion making. Norton/ Let the staff work on it. I think that they have done such a good job on minutes conveying the full flavor of what goes on here I find them so useful... (All talking) Norton/ If we can avoid the times were there is a mistake like that ... Vanderhoef/If there is a substantial change then reprint the whole thing and highlight it, changed, from the draft or whatever. The other thing that crosses my mind on getting them I would truly like to have them within four weeks because if something is talked about at a commission and there gone bring it back up in the next meeting, I would like to at least know about it and I may or may not call somebody on that commission and say what's happening with this or have you thought about that. I don't know but it just gives you an opportunity to put something out otherwise it's two months later before it can be reported on in their commission. Kubby/ One quick question. Lehman/ Yes. Kubby/ Will we redo Sturgis Park... ? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 101 (Gavel) Kubby/ Lehman/ Atkins/ When we redo Sturgis Ferry Park, will we putting a sidewalk along Riverside where that well beaten path is? I mean I think that's a good clue for being where a sidewalk should go. I will ask my Sturgis Ferry committee. (All talking) Lehman/ All fight guys. Atkins/ Oh just to let you know just to let you know, Wednesday afternoon we're having a Blood Drive here at the building. So, a number of us will be down here hooked up. We're gone be a quart low for awhile. Lehman/ All fight. (All talking) Lehman/ / Lehman/ Norton/ All fight, we have not set a date for staff evaluations. July? I really don't like to do July but I suppose we could, I think Any day after D day. (All talking) How long are we gone be here? All night. Keep asking questions. (All laughing) O'Donnell/June 2"d we're gonna be here at 8:00 in the morning. Lehman/ Well, everybody's not going to be here June 2"d. That isn't going to be a day that works. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 102 O'Donnell/ (All talking) Lehman/ Well, I don't really care, but I really believe that we should be getting a date set. Champion/ Kubby/ So, Marian are there any times you have after the 17th of June? Is there anything after June 17th when all of us will be in town? Karr/ No. Kubby/ Until when? Karr/ Until the your meeting of the 28th and 29th. / Of June? Karr/ Of June. Kubby/ How soon in July are all seven of us in town? O'Donnell/Well, what's wrong with the 28th or 29th? Karr/ It's your regular meeting. Lehman/ That evaluation thing I guess is up to the council but I really felt that last year we met at I think at 8:00 in the morning, is that fight? O'Donnell/Maybe we should do that... I think it will work well. Lehman/ Norton/ Lehman/ I think a morning meeting is a good meeting. (All talking) Karr/ I don't have 7 people in town at any other time in June. / Really. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 103 Lehman/ Karr/ Lehman/ Kubby/ Karr/ Lehman/ Kubby/ Norton/ / Atkins/ Karr/ Norton/ Lehman/ O.K., but then I think Karen's question after the 29th meeting of June when' s the first day in July. It's on a Thursday I know, but what' s the date that everybody' s here? Um, I don't have anyone gone in July until the 14th, at this point. Is that the week of the 5th and 6th? The 5th and 6th is open. That's a Monday, Tuesday. Does the 6th work? Maybe do the 6th and 7th? IS the 6th Tuesday? Are you all going down for the 4th? The 4th iS Sunday. We're off Monday. So the 6th would be possible. The 6th is a Tuesday. O'Dounell/Why wait till the 6th? Lehman/ It's a Holiday. (All talking) Lehman/ Well, it 's a Holiday too. If I have staff they won't be working unless we drag them in. (All talking) Lehman/ All fight, is the 6th of July at 8:00 is the date for evaluations. 8:00 in the morning. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 104 (All talking) Champion/ (All talking) Lehman/ Kubby/ I don't think it would effect what we're going to do, we're going to evaluate to see... Actually it would be better than doing Wednesday because that staff is needed all day. Lehman/ Yes. (All talking) Champion/O.K. what's the date on that meeting again? Lehman/ Tuesday (All talking) Lehman/ How about the we might keep the 8th Up OUr sleeves? Vanderhoef/I've got a question mark on the 8th. Norton/ Lets keep it. Vanderhoef/I'm either gone go out of town... (All talking) Lehman/ Karr/ Lehman/ Karr/ Lehman/ So we just said July 6th at 8am is the only time we have? That's the time we assessed. 8 to 11 ? 8 to noon? Why don't we reserve 8 to 12 if we can't make it we'll stop at 11 if know we can't make it but if now lets try ... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799 May 17, 1999 Council Work Session Page 105 Vanderhoef/Do the whole thing. O'Donnell/If we can make it we'll quite... (Inaudible) (All talking) Karr/ Lehman/ I always request last for the other one because I'm there anyway. If you folks have questions that you would like to see us entertain collectively for those folks why don't you try to get me copies of them and I'll try to get something done. Champion/I've got a question. Lehman/ Have you? Why don't you get them to me and I'll see that everybody get them. Would you like those questions passed out with or without answers? Adjoumed: 9:40 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 17, 1999 SWS051799