HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-08-24 Transcription#2 Page 1
ITEM NO. 2. MAYOR'S PROCLAMATIONS.
a. Richard W. (Dick) Lee Day - August 24
Lehman/This is a fun night. First one. (Reads Proclamation). Now therefore, I, Ernest
W. Lehman, Mayor of Iowa City, Iowa do hereby proclaim Tuesday, August 24,
1999 to be Richard W. (Dick) Lee Day in Iowa City and urge all citizens to join in
congratulating Dick on his commitment on Iowa City are reflecting on the
qualities that Captain Dick Lee one of Iowa City's local heros treasures.
Marian Karr/Here to accept is Retired Captain Dick Lee. Congratulations.
(can't hear) all laughing
Lehman/You know Dick these things are always fun but this has a new high.
Dick Lee/Well thank you.
Lehman/No thank you.
Karr/Mr. Mayor before Dick leaves we could also read the award and have Police Chief
Winkelhake join us for that.
Lehman/(Reads award).
Karr/Mr. Mayor if you wouldn't mind presenting it to Police Chief, Dick, Dick, Dick.
Would you?
Lehman/I'd like to.
Karr/Dick can you wait one second? Can we do pictures?
Thornberry/Never has before.
Karr/Dick could we, could we come up and we can have Police Chief Winkelhake join
us for the presentation? And perhaps we also could have Dick's wife Jan join
him.
Norton/This was a family affair I gather.
Lehman/OK, we've been photographed. Dick would like to?
Karr/OK Dick.
Lehman/Anything you'd like to say? It's your tum.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#2 Page 2
Dick Lee/I'm very honored to receive this award for doing a job I love to do. For doing
the job I love to do. Thank you to everyone who helped make this day possible.
My family and I will never forget one of the greatest days of my life and thank
you everybody.
Bill Sueppel/Mr. Mayor, Ladies and Gentleman of the Council, my name is Bill Sueppel
and I'd like to read a statement to you that's been prepared by Dick Lee's family.
They asked me to read it because they were afraid they got up here they'd get
emotional. I'm having a hard time myself, but I'll read the statement. When Dick
retired from the Iowa City Police Department in 1982 his chief referred to him as
an Iowa City institution, he was also called a local legend. He was in fact one of
the most highly visible and recognizable officers Iowa City has ever had. With an
unlit cigar in his mouth, his hat tilted back on his crew cut, his pants riding very
low on his hips, and his not quite regulation white stag gun grip showing in his
holster he patrolled the streets of Iowa City for 32 years on either the 3 to 11 shift
or the 11 to 7 shift. He was a street cop and that's what he preferred to be, his
style of law enforcement wasn't always by the book, but was based more on
common sense, coupled with writing as few tickets as possible. There are many
of the kids from the 50's, the 60's, and the 70's who got a thorough chewing out
from him, sent home to dad and mom with no citations that would give them a
record they'd have to carry into adulthood. People knew Dick and Dick new
people, lots of people. Most anyone who did know him has a story to tell about
him, we've heard them for years and still hear them today. He's been retired a
long time but Iowa City still remembers him well. He looked like what he was, a
policeman. He choose to serve his hometown because he thought that was a good
and honorable thing to do and that he could make a difference by what he did and
how he did it. He did it his way and that worked for him and it worked for the
Iowa City community, but we as family were proud of him when he wore his
uniform and we're just as proud of him now. This letter, this statement is signed
by his wife Jan, his daughter Ellen and Dean and her children Chris, John, Mick
and Sarah, his daughter Terry and her husband Tom Parker and their children
Chad and Derrick, his daughter Kelly Lee and her friend Gary Adams and his son
Rick and his wife Kathy and their children, Ricky, Lindsay, Tim, Emily, Joe and
Shelly. And I'd like to have this statement entered as part of this proceedings this
evening. And then if I may just take a moment as a representative of the people
Dick' s age who lived all their lives and grew up in Iowa City have a few things
I'd like to say myself. Dick lived on Jefferson Street fight next to what used to be
known as Lee field. It wasn't Lee field it was part of the Iowa City public school
grounds but they didn't know that because it was controlled by the Lee family.
And those of us and I can start with the Chadek's, and the Miller's, and the
Colbert's and the Sueppel's and the Rocca's are the people who lived in that
general area always went to the Lee playground throughout our childhood and our
teen years and his mother always took care of us with water or lemonade or
whatever we needed. I'm sorry tonight that one person isn't here to tell us stories
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#2 Page 3
about Dick Lee because if there is one person who could really tell stories about
Dick Lee it was Dr. George Callahan. Now if you know it, now if any of you
remember George Callahan it was a sight to behold when George Callahan with
his cigar and Dick Lee with his cigar stood face to face and started join I'll tell
you the blarney flew at a mighty high rate at those times. But in behalf of our
generation, when I later became practicing law I used to kid Dick Lee, I'd say
Dick come on I'm just starting out I really need the business, arrest somebody I
mean, arrest somebody, give us some business out here. But seriously, about that
topic, we all knew that Dick Lee was doing his job. He didn't do it necessarily by
arresting people but these kids knew they had been stopped and they had been
talking to been talked to and their folks had been involved and I really began to
appreciate that when my children reached the age of 13, 14, 15 and I'll tell you
there were times when I heard the door bell ring and go to the front door and there
was Dick Lee Captain Dick Lee or I got a phone call at 10:30 at night and that
was Captain Dick Lee and we appreciated the fact that these children were taught
were taught that they can not do certain actions and it has a consequence. But that
someone is there to give them a break and hopefully all of the children have taken
advantage of that. And so again in behalf of the fellows and the women who grew
up with Dick Lee in his area we are extremely proud of him. He has done a
magnificent job, we thank him, we thank the Iowa City community as it's award
expressed tonight should thank him. And we are just very happy that Dick had
that good common sense when he was out patrolling the streets. Thank you Dick.
Bill Gillies/Mayor Lehman, Council people, my name is Bill Gillies and it is an honor
for me to come down here today from St. Paul and share this time with Dick. I'm
one of those people that grew up in the 50's that they were talking about.
Sometime ago they asked me to jot some memories down or some notes and then
when I heard they wanted to read them I thought I'd better rewrite that and make
it a little better and come down here and read it so here we go. When I was not
very old during World War II my dad used to buy gas from Dick's father at Lee's
66 station. Due to the war gas and rubber were in short supply and the
government had rationed both, my dad was planning on buying a new set of tires
and couldn't, however our car made it through the car years on patches and boots
that Lee's station provided. At the time I had bright red hair just like Dick and all
his brothers. Dick's dad said I could eat at their supper table for a week and never
be noticed. I suspected Dick and my dad talked more often than I realized when I
was in my teens and just starting how to drive somehow my dad knew things
about my driving habits that I'm sure he never witnessed in person. I remember
Dick driving those Kaiser's that seemed to sit so low. There he'd be with his cap
on crooked and a half chewed cigar in his mouth, somehow he always appeared
when it was time for me to quit cruising the downtown and head for home. We
never spoke but he'd pull up behind me and follow me to the city's edge and I got
the message. I can remember when Dick was promoted to Captain even though I
can't remember the exact date. You could see him bursting at the seams with
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#2 Page 4
pride and face full of smiles and rightly so. Shortly after that time Kenny Stock
was constantly on my case for excessive noise, I don't know if Dick shifted the
assignment to Ken but I acquired a bunch of tickets. I used to take my mother to
court with me. At 16 or 17 years old we had respect for Dick even though we
tried not to show it, he looked after us and helped us guide us through our
mischievous years in an unassuming way that I couldn't appreciate fully until
having teenagers of my own. We were fortunate to have had the experience of
growing up in a small city with the understanding of Dick Lee to help us through
our troubled teens. His discretion was evident when calling parents of a couple of
boys in trouble. He knew the families were on a party line and that the neighbors
would be listening in on the call from him. He told the parents when their sons
came home they had something to discuss. We weren't hard core juvenile
delinquents just kids with crazy ideas sometimes. I think Dick realized that and
watched over his without letting it go too far. I'm reminded of one time I had an
old Ford that had such a bad clutch in it that a slight breeze would make it slip.
And one night we changed the clutch up at the Skelly where the corn grew and I
was just like a kid with a new lollipop, boy I was buming rubber down the street
and I went down into the Sinclair station down on Benton where I used to work.
And I was going to back in alongside the building. And I put it in reverse and I
started to back in and went bang and thought what was that and I looked around
and here's the police car I just backed into the police squad car and broke their
headlight as I recall. Well needless to say we had quite a long talk and I was
lucky that Dick's brother Bob was at the station at the time because he talked to
him for quite a while too and finally it was settled if I'd come in and talk to the
Captain the next day they'd let me go. I asked my mother the other day, my
mother just turned 97 if she remembered Dick Lee and she smiled and said oh my
friend. After your dad died he would stop by from time to time and check on me
to see that everything was OK. He was a nice friendly man. I certainly am
thankful for the impact on my life and wanted to share some memories with this
great Iowa Citizen. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Dean Thomberry/I don't think I'd better tell my story.
Lehman/Yea Dean has got a story and then we're going to move on but this is a fun fun
time and Dean you can make it a little more personal.
Thomberry/Didn't really want to do this in this position but.
Lehman/Better put your mic on we can't miss this.
Thornberry/I didn't really want to do this in this position, I'll tell you later Dick. My
father was Mayor at the time that I was a senior in high school and as seniors go it
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#2 Page 5
got near graduation time we decided to imbibe a little bit and I since I had the fake
ID, I was the one that got to go in and purchase the case of beer while my friends
with their car and I didn't have a car sat outside and I don't know if I want to
mention any names but Steve Caldwell and Gary Freeman come to mind and
Forest Evashevski and some of the others and I walked out with the beer out of
the tavern and they were gone. And Dick Lee was there, he was always there
whenever we did something wrong and he said Dean, Mr. Thomberry I think he
said, "Where are you going with that beer?" I said home, and he said "It's for
your dad right?" And I said well yes, and he says good he said I'll help you with
that, put it in the trunk and we'll take it home to him. And we did and from there
I went down to the jail, the city jail which is across the street over here. Anyway
he let me make a phone call and he suggested that I call Mr. Meardon, which I
did. And he came down and so I thank Mr. Lee and Mr. Meardon for my military
service.
Lehman/Dick, this is the longest proclamation since I've been on the council in the last 5
V2 years and it's definitely been the most fun so again the very very best to you
from all of us. Thank you very much.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#2 Page 6
b. Try Transit Week - September 12-18
Lehman/(Reads proclamation). Whereas it's getting pretty noisy in here and people
can't hear. We're going to wait a minute for you folks to turn the party. For those
folks who don't realize there is a reception honoring Dick Lee that is starting as
soon as Dick gets there so that's one of the reason for the mass exodus it isn't
because people don't want to hear the rest of council meeting. Because they were
tom between the two.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Thornberry/And for this other great proclamation.
Lehman/Right. (Continues reading Proclamation). Now therefore, I Ernest W. Lehman,
Mayor of the City of Iowa City, Iowa do proclaim the week of September 12-18,
1999 to be Try Transit Week in Iowa City and call upon all citizens to examine
their personal travel choices to commute by a transit or share the ride during Try
Transit Week and to become more active in education and advocacy efforts to
promote a vital role of public transit in Iowa City and across the United States.
Karr/Here to accept is our transit manager Ron Logsden.
Lehman/I'm sorry you don't have a standing ovation Ron.
Ron Logsden/First of all I'd like to thank the Council for your support of Iowa City
transit and just to let you know that the new route changes took affect yesterday,
seemed to have gone pretty well there's a few confused people but most of the
people called and got the changes beforehand and I think everybody's working
through it, seems to be going well. We're going to do a couple things during the
week of Try Transit Week to try to promote transit in Iowa City. We're going to
promote the community benefits of effective transit service, attempt to attract new
riders through a variety of promotional efforts and honorable transit employees
and regular riders and we're going to be doing a few things during the week and
we'll have some marketing and some advertisements about those throughout the
weekend beforehand and if anybody's got any ideas of how to to further promote
transit we'd sure be willing to look at those. Thank you again.
Lehman/Well our thanks to you, we're very proud of the system, we think you do a
marvelous job, keep it up.
Logsden/Thank you.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#3 Page 7
ITEM NO. 3. SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS.
a. Iowa Firefighter's Memorial - Henry Herwig
Lehman/Mr. Herwig.
Hertry Herwig/It's a tough act to follow.
Lehman/Your right.
Herwig/I'm only hoping that like Rotary you give visiting council absentee permission
so I can have credit for attendance because I'm at the wrong Council meeting but
tonight it's the right Council meeting. Very quickly, it is a tough act to follow
with Dick Lee but this is this is going the other direction this is going to you. It is
my privilege on behalf of the Iowa Fire~ghter's Memorial Board to present to you
as leaders of the City of Iowa City a limited edition print as a tangible token of
appreciation for your generous support. I hope you've all had the opportunity to
visit the site of the Iowa Firefighter's Memorial just offof Interstate 80, exit 242,
noah on First Avenue in Coralville. The memorial is at it's fifth year of
welcoming visitors as another featured attraction in the Coralville/Iowa City area.
A bronze sculpture of a firefighter rescuing a child, a granite memorial wall
engraved with the names of fallen firefighters and the visitors center are it's main
component but it must be experienced to achieve it's full impact. The annual state
memorial service is a moving tribute to those who protect us throughout the state
of Iowa. The memorial is one more case where we as the communities of
Coralville and Iowa City proudly serve as stewards for the people of the state of
Iowa on their many treasures. Once again without further ado it is my privilege to
present this portrait to you, it's a portrait of the memorial. Helping this evening
are some members of the Firefighter Memorial Board if they'd come forward with
the portrait at this time. Mayor Lehman on behalf of the Council if you would
step forward and accept I would appreciate it.
Champion/Is he allowed up here.
Dee Vanderhoef/Okay Henry.
Lehman/Just don't try to get the mic understand.
Herwig/I won't.
(can't hear)
Herwig/That's a picture of the memorial, if I'd better put my glasses on the inscription
on the bottom says "Presented to the City of Iowa City 8-23-99 in recognition of
your leadership in the Memorial Project." So I think it will find a place and with
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#3 Page 8
our heartfelt thanks we appreciate your support and celebrate the opportunities
that we have to work together.
Champion/Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you very much and I guess on behalf of the Council I would like to say
we appreciate being able to help if we can and.
Andy RoccaJ The Memorial if you haven't had an opporttmity as Henry Herwig said you
should stop by and have a look at it it's truly impressive. You actually need to
experience itself for what it really is. I commend the City of Coralville, the
Memorial Board for the work and effort that you put into it. This is just as easily
could have been done somewhere else in Iowa and we're very fortunate to have it
here and will serve the Iowa Fire Services for the years to come. Thank you very
much.
Lehman/Thank you.
Dean Thornberry/(can't hear).
Karen Kubby/Yea your looking great in there Henry.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#5 Page 9
ITEM NO. 5. PUBLIC DISCUSSION (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA). (UNTIL
8 PM)
Lehman/This is a time on the agenda we reserve for comments from the public and this
is to be limited to items that do not appear on the agenda, your comments should
be limited to five minutes or less.
Jay Honohan/It's my Senior Center Commission duty Mr. Mayor.
Lehman/OK.
Honohan/First thing we'd like to say is the Senior Center Commission is real glad to see
you back Emie.
Lehman/I am delighted to be back.
Thornberry/I'm glad to see him too.
Honohan/I'll be brief because you have a long meeting. We had a real successful booth
at the County Fair and I hope you people got there, we certainly enjoyed that.
You have seen our latest request about meeting with you on the sky walk. We're
still very ernest on the sky walk, we hope to have that meeting with you and I'll
you have correspondence on G4 1 think on the space situation and that's all I
believe is all I'll report tonight. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you Jay.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#6a Page 10
ITEM
NO. 6a. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
a. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY
CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM MEDIUM DENSITY
SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-8) TO PLANNED
DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-8), AND APPROVING A
PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY
PLAN FOR 24 TOWNHOUSE-STYLE DWELLING UNITS FOR
APPROXIMATELY 7.72 ACRES LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST
CORNER OF BARRINGTON ROAD AND HUNTINGTON DRIVE.
(REZ99-0007)
Lehman/Public hearing is open.
Mike Ban'on/Good evening, I'm Mike Barron, I'm a resident of Iowa City and live at
725 Arlington Drive. And I'm coming to you out of a sense of obligation to the
council on this particular issue and the one that immediately follows it as a part of
this item but I'll only speak once which I'm sure you'll appreciate. I'm also
coming to you as an obligation for the Homeowners that live in the Windsor
Ridge Development. I'm actually going to provide to you some reflections, I'll
think your due relative to a process that you I think wisely set in place when you
asked that the developer Anderson LC and it's partners meet with various
members of the Windsor Ridge Homeowners group to discuss concerns that those
homeowners had about plans for Part 12 and Part 13 that are on your agenda this
evening and since your going to be voting after these two particular items have
been deferred at request of the developer and with your concurrent I thought it
appropriate to perhaps bring some closure to the issue from the standpoint of
those of us who brought some concerns to the Council and to the Planning and
Zoning Committee. At a July meeting of the Planning & Zoning Commission for
Windsor Ridge residents attended and voiced a variety of opinions regarding Part
13. At this meeting Gary Watts who represented Anderson LC presented an
alternative plan for the development of the town home portion of Part 13 Windsor
Ridge. This plan included some but certainly not all of the ideas presented by the
developer to the developer by the homeowners through a process which was set in
motion by the Iowa City Council earlier this summer. When asked by a
Commissioner if the developer' s preferred this altered plan Mr. Watts
representing Anderson LC says "yes I believe we do." After additional discussion
including remarks from all four of the homeowners who were in attendance
including myself the Planning & Zoning Commission voted to retum to the
original plan. Actually as a point of clarification the plan that was approved is
truly not the original. The original had buildings with more units but was reduced
after an even earlier citizen input which criticized the size of the units in this
parcel. One commissioner offered his opinion that this earlier input satisfied the
City Council' s intent of additional community input. And that the later input of
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#6a Page 11
homeowners which was at the we felt at the direction of the Council working with
the developer's which presented the most recent modifications were essentially
irrelevant. In subsequent discussion with the developer' s I've learned that
Anderson LC has gone back to the city planning staff with several changes to the
deferred plan for Parts 13 and Part 12 which you will discuss subsequent to this
one. The originally, Part 12 is the originally proposed 4 building 72 unit
condominium development at the soon to be comer of Court and Arlington Drive.
Following input from the homeowners at the request of the City Council the
developer's have extensively recommended changes which city staffers have in
our view similarly objected. In response to homeowner concern over the
massiveness and height of those structures the developers recommended several
combination of small units, ranch style walk out duplexes, to be specific. In each
case city staff had reasons why those did not work as well, did not care for the
developer' s plans and suggested the developer return to the plans already
approved by P & Z and that you will be voting on here momentarily. My concem
in all of these is the apparent futility of the exercise and better communication that
was set in motion by the Iowa City Council. I know that Councilor Kubby
attended at least one meeting and certainly Mayor Lehman and Councilor
O'Donnell certainly came as well and I hope that you all witnessed the that there
was an honest effort and intent among all participants developers, home owners
and alike. And while some individuals in certain project parameters remain
unchangeable that' s perhaps inevitable. But there was an honest give and take
which resulted in recommendations which subsequently have been rejected by the
city staff. And I must confess that while I realize the Council, the Commission,
the city staffers and all of us who live in Windsor Ridge are citizens and as such
have provided citizen input from our respective positions and responsibilities I
feel that the outcome of this very vigorous process is is less than what the City
Council perhaps desired. In fact I believe the sequence of events which lead to
the home owner developer meetings and the subsequent recommendations for
plan changes created a positive and potentially creative atmosphere, perhaps even
a hopeful one. Some even voiced the thought that they meet become a model for
future neighborhood developer city staff interaction and for planning underneath
the general umbrella of the city' s master plan for such development. The results
however seem to us to be chilling in their impact. If home owner developer input
is going to be similarly rejected by the city planning staff and the P & Z
Commission is going to continue to vote the staff line some have asked why have
the discussion at all? Actually it's my belief that the developer's of Windsor
Ridge will continue to apprise residents of their plans as a result of our
conversations. I think we've open excellent channels of communication which I
know was one of your goals. It's just good business. However I will be surprised
if either the residents or the developers anticipate that such conversations will be
truly heard by the city staff. And following such a wonderful proclamation that
you had earlier it's terrible to be the nice (can't hear) and provide this much
cynicism as a part of a process that you I think set in motion and that we had you
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#6a Page 12
know high hopes for. And we're not planners, or developers, builders, we're just
citizens like yourselves. But in fact I'm typically an optimist, and I but I think
what many of us are left with at the end of this process is an analogy that we
brought from our childhood. And that is as we're working with city staff the
message is fairly clear it's our sand box, take your toys and go home. Thank you.
Lehman/Any other public comments? Public heating is closed.
Karr/Can we have a motion to accept correspondence?
Thomberry/So moved.
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thomberry, seconded by Vanderhoef. All in favor. All ayes. Are
we going to do first consideration of this thing?
Kubby/It's a different item.
Lehman/OK.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#6b Page 13
ITEM
6.b. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY CHANGING THE
ZONING DESIGNATION OF APPROXIMATELY 7.46 ACRES FROM
MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-8) TO
PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-8) AND THE
APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY OPDH PLAN FOR 72 RESIDENTIAL
DWELLING UNITS WITHIN THE WINDSOR RIDGE SUBDIVISION
LOCATED AT THE EAST TERMINUS OF COURT STREET. (REZ99-
0006) (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Kubby/Move first consideration.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Kubby, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion.
Kubby/Well I support this because we have consciously tried to get developers to do
slightly higher density developments along arterial streets. And we weren't really
that great of feedback and this is one of the, we're starting to get a different kind
of development proposed and I think it warrants doing the overlay and having a
slightly higher density on the major streets.
Champion/Well I'm going to support it too. I had hoped it would be more amicable with
the neighbors. I seriously think it's good for the city to do this, it protects
sensitive areas, it provides green space, and it helps a little bit contain urban
sprawl and I'm going to support it.
Lehman/I just have one comment and really Mike this is for you because I went to your
meeting and I was very very impressed with the exchange between the neighbors
and the developer I thought it was a very very good meeting and I know that not
all meetings result in the compromises that we'd like but but if nothing else there
has to be channels of communication there today that we're there before and
certainly that was a goal of the council and asking of you folks to get together.
Obviously I have no idea of what the considerations were for accepting or not
accepting recommendations but I really feel your meeting was a good move and I
think it will stand you in good (can't hear) in the future. Other comments.
Norton/With respects to Mike' s comment I just want to add that from my reading of it
I'm still kind of a bit confused about the precise extent of the consensus of some
of the neighbors. I hear mixed messages with respect to that earlier item the plan
A, plan B issue and I think it wasn't only staff, planning and zoning was pretty
strong on that one too so I find that a little bit difficult to get as much consensus
as seem to be implied by that comment.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#6b Page 14
Vanderhoef/Well I think what Mike has said to us though is that not everybody is going
to comfortable with it.
Norton/That' s fight.
Vanderhoef/We do the best we can with this and for the same reasons that Connie and
Karen spoke I'll support this.
Thornberry/I'm just going to say if if this subdivision were completely done and then
someone were to enfill with this type of thing wouldn't support it because I think
the neighborhood integrity it takes precedence over a multi family units but as this
as this, I didn't really mean how that came out. I've lived in apartments a lot and
there are some very good ones but I believe in neighborhood integrity and as this
as this project is building over now's the time to do it as oppose to later on after
there were houses on both sides and enfill of the whole area. Just like on the east
side we plan on putting a fire department on the east side and we're going to do
that before any houses are built just off of Captain Irish Parkway so that people
will know that when they build their house that yes there is a fire station there and
there might be times when they hear sirens. I would like to have had perhaps this
these units in before houses were this close but now is better than after the project
is completely finished and I'm sure you might agree with that so I will support
this.
Lehman/Roll call.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#6f Page 15
ITEM NO. 6.f. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY CHANGING
THE ZONING DESIGNATION OF APPROXIMATELY .33 OF AN ACRE
FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY (RS-8) TO COMMUNITY
COMMERCIAL (CC-2) TO ALLOW EXPANSION OF KENNEDY PLAZA
FOR PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF GILBERT
COURT NORTH OF BENTON STREET. (REZ99-0010) (SECOND
CONSIDERATION)
Thornberry/Move second consideration.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by O'Donnell.
Thornberry/The applicant has requested expedited consideration I think Dee Vanderhoef
has a comment.
Vanderhoef/I would like to change the.
Lehman/All right go ahead. We've withdrawn the motion go ahead.
Vanderhoef/I move the rule requiring that ordinance must be considered and voted on for
passage at two council meetings prior to the meeting at which it is to be finally
passed be suspended. That the second consideration and vote be waived and that
the ordinance be voted on for final passage at this time.
Thornberry/I'll second that.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, second by Thornberry. Discussion.
Kubby/I don't remember seeing a request what is the reason? Construction season. I
mean it may have been there and I just.
Norton/It was a letter.
Champion/(can't hear).
Eleanor Dilkes/I think we had it at the last meeting.
Vanderhoef/Yes we did.
Dilkes/And decided to collapse at this time instead of earlier.
Thornberry/That was the one that we were going to. Yea.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#6f Page 16
Norton/Yea. We we're going to collapse the first two but we decided to create.
Thornberry/That's correct.
Dilkes/And I think the applicant spoke actually.
Kubby/Well I still need to be refreshed about the reason for the collapsing.
Norton/Wanted to get some work on (can't hear).
Dilkes/I think it was getting the work done.
Kubby/They want to start, they want to break that ground now so they can get some
ground work (can't hear).
Lehman/I think we have somebody who can address that fight here.
Kubby/Please refresh me. Thank you. Thanks for being here.
Jim Kenyon/I'm Jim Kenyon I'm the project manager. It is because of the construction
season. We want to get the building done by January 1 st for occupancy so we
have to move fast.
Champion/And I think it's difficult when we have such few meetings in summer to get
those considerations in at a reasonable time.
Lehman/Right.
Kenyon/Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you Jim.
Kubby/I just thought we needed a reason.
Lehman/Roll call. All ayes.
Vanderhoef/I move that the ordinance be finally adopted at this time.
Thomberry/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Thornberry. Discussion. Roll call. All
ayes. Motion carries.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#6g Page 17
ITEM NO. 6.g. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE
PRELIMINARY PLAT OF SCOTT BOULEVARD EAST, PART 4, A 7.36
ACRES, 15-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED EAST OF
SCOTT BOULEVARD AT WASHINGTON STREET (SUB99-0015)
Norton/Move adoption of resolution.
Thornberry/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, seconded by Thornberry. First consis, no resolution.
Norton/Just resolution.
Lehman/OK.
Norton/A couple of questions Ernie.
Lehman/Yes.
Norton/I want to be. You say we're, or Karin said last night, we're not setting a
precedent here by going with a 25 foot street fight so everybody understands that
between 25 and 28 but just this particular circumstance? Because I thought the
arguments were pretty compelling on both sides of that issue I can't decide where
I'm at on that. And the north end of this is going to be worked out all right the
question where I still think it's a little vague how it works out when it goes past
the street out toward Lower Muscatine Road but I guess that will come out in the
wash.
Kubby/It will stay in it's current condition unless the county chooses to do something
where the private property owners could choose.
Norton/(can't hear). So you run a paved street into a non-paved street?
Kubby/Right.
Lehman/But I think this is by agreement of the folks who live along it.
Kubby/And then if we ever annex it.
Norton/It won't change until annexation is that would be the?
Lehman/Or unless the pavers decide to pay for it.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#6g Page 18
Kubby/Or the county. Which is unlikely because there's such little traffic but it's up to
them.
Karin Franklin/Yea the property owners are the ones who will be maintaining that and I
think the conclusion of the Planning and Zoning Commission was that there isn't
going to be that much traffic on that road and they felt they could work it out
ultimately. But I I mean I truly believe that at some point there is going to be a
request to some governmental entity to solve the problem. I mean that's just the
way it always happens.
Kubby/But currently it's the county, currently that section is in the county and so people
would go to the county.
Franklin/That's correct it's in the county.
Norton/It would have been cheaper to do it now while they've got the mid gear out there
that's the way it goes.
Kubby/If it were in the city limits there'd be no question we'd do that but, if we started
improving county roads where does that end?
Norton/They'd love it.
Lehman/Further discussion. Roll call.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#8a Page 19
ITEM NO. 8a. INSTITUTING PROCEEDINGS TO TAKE ADDITIONAL
ACTION FOR THE AUTHORIZATION AND ISSUANCE OF NOT TO
EXCEED $700,000 GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS.
a. Public Heating
Lehman/This is money that will be used to acquire land design and construction of
mixed use parking facility. Public hearing is open.
Kubby/So just for clarification this is for the Iowa Avenue?
Lehman/That is correct. Public heating is closed.
Thornberry/Move adoption.
b. Consider a resolution approving
Norton/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Norton. Discussion.
Kubby/Well I won't be supporting this because I don't support this project.
Lehman/Roll call.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#10 Page 20
ITEM NO. 10. PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND
ESTIMATE OF COST FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA CITY
CHAUNCEY SWAN FOUNTAIN PROJECT, ESTABLISHING AMOUNT
OF BID SECURITY TO ACCOMPANY EACH BID, DIRECTING CITY
CLERK TO PUBLISH ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS, AND FIXING
TIME AND PLACE FOR RECEIPT OF BIDS.
a. Public Hearing
Lehman/Public hearing is open. Public hearing is closed.
b. Consider a resolution approving
Norton/Move adoption of the resolution.
Thornberry/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, seconded by Thomberry. Discussion.
Champion/You might just want to tell people what this actually is.
Lehman/Yea I think it's important. This is a fountain that once had it's home for 20
years in the pedestrian plaza downtown and the plans to relocate it to the park
across the street from the civic center.
Steve Atkins/And redesign.
Lehman/And well and some redesign. The estimate is $82,700 and it will be keeping it
downtown where folks can see it.
Kubby/Steve why are we using parking funds? I don't understand the relationship.
Atkins/The project is on parking property. Chancey Swan park is owned by the parking
system and what I would intend to do is when we finalize the financing after we
have the bids is that it seemed to me only fair that a portion of the cost of the
project should be charged to the parking fund which owns the land on which it
sits.
Kubby/So it will be like for some portion of it that has to deal with the land though not
not really the fountain itself?.
Atkins/Yes, yes. Not the sculpture or anything such as that that's correct.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#10 Page 21
Norton/I trust that some of the people who are involved in the original cause to fund that
fountain in the first place may be involved when that is reopened, I hope that
would be the case.
Atkins/Oh. Mayor Lehman.
Norton/Well there was a number of other people that were.
Lehman/Oh no that's correct.
Norton/Involved, maybe we could have an appropriate recognition of them.
Lehman/Well we might even get page 38 in the Press Citizen of the back page down in
the comer to tell folks about it.
Norton/And will this have propert recycling Steve, this fountain will be appropriately?
Atkins/This fotmtain is substantially different, first of all it's not raised and out of the
ground, I mean the sculpture remains but it has modern pumping devices, it is a
recirculating system, it is designed so that our employees can maintain it directly
above so the confined space element is less than. How did I do Kumi everything
OK?
Lehman/It doesn't filter the way though. It refills every periodically.
Atkins/Every 12 hours, every 12 hours.
Norton/New supply in other words.
Atkins/New supply of water every 12 hours.
Lehman/OK.
Atkins/Because we intended to be interactive, this time it's deliberate to allow folks to
get in.
Vanderhoef/OK.
Lehman/Other discussion.
Norton/Interactive good, good.
Vanderhoef/I just want to know how this differs from the policy that we set by not
funding the water plant project with water moneys. This is being funded with
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#10 Page 22
parking funds and for me they are closely related and it falls into this whole
discussion of public art. It's not that I don't want the project it's just where we set
the funding for this project.
Champion/You know I agree with you but if our water rates weren't so exorbitant I'd be
more than willing to fund art and landscaping out of the water fund. But because
our water bills are already so high I'm not willing at this point to do that. But I
would be willing at a later date or you know eventually if water rates ever get
down to what I think is a reasonable level for people.
Atkins/The underlying thinking was that as I understood it the original Gutheinz
sculpture was funded by private fundraising there may have been some public
moneys involved and the intent here was to salvage that sculpture to begin with.
And secondly, and to put it to a good use I will be candid I never gave any
indication that it would be financed by water. That it was a general recreational
purpose and.
Kubby/No that's not.
Champion/No no.
Vanderhoef/I'm talking about the policy.
Norton/About coming out of parking.
Vanderhoef/That we just worked on.
Atkins/Oh.
Kubby/Comes out of revenue of.
Champion/No I know that, I know you weren't going to pay for that out of general.
Vanderhoef/No but it this is an enterprise fund?
Atkins/Yes.
Vanderhoef/So taking money from this enterprise fund versus from the other enterprise
fund both for what I call public art projects. And it also dips into my thinking
about how much are we truly spending for installation and maintenance and
upkeep of our public art out of our public art fund which still has not come back
to us from the art committee.
Norton/More accounting of.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#10 Page 23
Vanderhoef/More accounting of that and I noticed just another little piece of art that is
coming up that we haven't made a decision on but it has to do with a bridge on
Burlington Street and the design of that bridge will ultimately cost the DOT
another $5,000 and the city another $15,000 in that project and it is a public art
kind of project so.
Kubby/But I thought that we had settled these issues that when we do architecturally
integrtist designs within public works project that that wasn't considered public
art, when we're buying a sculpture, when redoing the fountain, if we end of any
nice metal sculpted utility whole plates that that is public art. But that when we
create aesthetic public works project that that was part of the public works project
and would not money come out of the money art fund. I thought that had been
decided directed and laid to rest.
Franklin/That was my understanding also, I have no knowledge of this Burlington Street
bridge project and the Public Art Advisory Committee reviewed the plans for the
Gutheinz fountain relocation. But it was not done as a public art project, it was
done more as a recycling project.
Vanderhoef/Well we directed it and I understand that and I guess my question really is
whether it should be funded from parking funds or whether it should be funded by
general funds. That's where my real concern is is how.
Norton/We've got to find a way to get good design in place of it. And we'll make sure
they're functional.
Champion/Right.
Norton/Don't forget we've got to find a way to get my big faucet over the water plant.
Champion/Right.
Thornberry/You know Dee I agree entirely with you that if this had been, if this was a
new, if this was a new art work and put in this park. I don't think it should be
funded with the parking funds. I think it should come out of the public art fund.
But it is, it's not a new project, it's just like Karin said a recycling project it's
moving it. We could throw it away because we've got a new fountain downtown.
Instead of doing that and using it and we're putting it in a park that we can use it
and I don't since it's not a new project I'll agree with doing that. If it were a new
project I'd say that it ought to come out of the art project, art budget rather.
Vanderhoef/Well I'm.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#10 Page 24
Thornberry/Just like the new fountain that's going in downtown is going to come out the
fountain itself is coming out of the art budget.
Vanderhoef/And in this case I think I would rather have this come out of the general
fund than out of the parking fund.
Norton/We can presumably discuss that with Steve can't we? Exactly how we want to if
we want to at another time discuss exactly how.
Kubby/Well say the general fund is about as tight as it's ever been that if we choose to
have that discussion people need to bring specific ideas on where they want to cut
in the general fund to make that trade.
Norton/Yea right.
Vanderhoef/Either that or make the policy of how we're going to be using enterprise
funds.
Norton/Yea fight.
Champion/The motion is that we vote for it and it will be funded by.
Vanderhoef/Parking.
Champion/Parking.
Vanderhoef/And I will support this.
Norton/The motion doesn't include that.
Vanderhoef/I'm asking that we do this conversation sooner rather than later.
Norton/The motion doesn't say where the money comes from.
Lehman/Well it says general obligation bonds and parking funds.
Norton/Down here but that's fine print, that's a comment.
Lehman/All right.
Vanderhoef/Well I believe them when they say that. If it's published I think we'd better
go with it.
Norton/(can't hear).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#10 Page 25
Lehman/Any further discussion?
Kubby/And your fight Dee.
Lehman/Roll call.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#11 Page 26
ITEM NO. 11. PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND
ESTIMATE OF COST FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE SOCCER FIELD
SANITARY SEWER PROJECT, ESTABLISHING AMOUNT OF BID
SECURITY TO ACCOMPANY EACH BID, DIRECTING CITY CLERK
TO PUBLISH ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS, AND FIXING TIME AND
PLACE FOR RECEIPT OF BIDS.
b. Consider a resolution approving.
Thornberry/Move adoption of the resolution.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry.
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion.
Norton/Does the same principle apply here? I didn't want to bring it up. Would this
come out of park funds?
Kubby/All our sewer projects come from the waste water treatment money. My question
is about the sizing of it. In case over a long period of time we really fulfill that
once large plan about having many different kinds of fields down there and the
full compliment of service. Will this project serve all of that or will we need to
expand it later?
Arkins/I suspect at some time Karen it may have to be added onto but I my
understanding is that has been sized to be added onto at some time in the future.
Now at extent of which I just don't know.
Norton/But is it just servicing one facility now?
Arkins/Right now it's it will be servicing concession stands and the bathrooms. If you
remember you awarded that contract a month or so ago.
Norton/But there's one location or two?
Arkins/There's two.
Norton Those two.
Arkins/There he is, Terry's saying two.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#11 Page 27
Kubby/Thanks.
Lehman/Any further discussion.
Roll call.
Motion carries.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#12 Page 28
ITEM NO. 12. PUBLIC HEARING ON A PROPOSED CENTRAL BUSINESS
DISTRICT URBAN REVITALIZATION PLAN FOR A PROPOSED
URBAN REVITALIZATION AREA IN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY,
IOWA.
Lehman/Public hearing is open.
Jeff Cox/I'm Jeff Cox. This clock here is fast, how long do I have 50 minutes? The, I'm
here to encourage you to before exempting downtown development over the next
10 years from property taxes the on the value that you take some steps to ensure
that we have (can't hear) public support for this. I served on the city's ad hoc
economic development committee that gave it's recommendation to the city
council in 96 which were in at least our understanding were recommendations on
conditions that should govern assistance to private investors from public funds.
Now this committee was a deeply divided committee. There were a number of
people on the committee including me who were very suspicious of economic
development money all together and regarded as corporate welfare and so forth.
There were other people who regarded it as an investment that will pay off in the
future. So but in the end this committee came forward with an unanimous report
to the city council which was adopted unanimously by the city council. And I
can't speak for other members of the committee but I can say that in my
understanding of the basis for this consensus was our agreement, 100 percent
agreement that one broad condition should be placed on assistance to private
investors and that is if that assistance should produce good jobs at good wages.
That this would be something that would maintain public support for economic
development. I think there was a recognition on the committee by the people who
supported economic development that even though it may be a good investment
it's not free. If it were just free we could just do it. That there's a real cost in
spending money on economic development, it's an incalculable cost, we don't
know how much it is. But some of this money is probably going to investment
that would have been made anyway, so there's forgone taxes to the city and taxes
are involuntary if you don't person X person Y three blocks away does have to.
And so we could be in a situation where there is a great deal of ill will and bad
feeling over this over the next 10 years unless we have something to show for
this. And we set these standards of livable wages in the economic development
policy and I hope that you will take some steps at least, these are advisory and we
knew it. But I hope you'll take some steps at least so you can say well we're not
spending public money on low wage jobs. We are not short of jobs in Iowa City.
We have lots of jobs now. But even though we've got lots of jobs it is still not
easy to find a job where you can support a family, where you can pay, where you
can buy health insurance, where you can pay school fees, buy school clothes and
school supplies, where you can pay property taxes and water rates and get a
mortgage. It's not easy for a lot of people to do that at current wage rates and I
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#12 Page 29
hope you at least on the construction portions of this that you will take some steps
to make sure that you can say to the public to people on both sides of this issue
that at the very least we're getting good jobs at good wages downtown for our
economic development investment. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Dilkes/Mr. Mayor, you may want to indicate the council's discussion last night about
likely amending the plan to address the Historic Preservation Commission's
concerns so that people can comment on that during the course of the public
hearing if they'd like.
Lehman/I have a copy of an amendment that we suggested last night, would someone
like to make that amendment before we continue the public hearing?
Dilkes/I don't think you need to make the amendment now I would maybe wait until the
end of the public hearing but you might want to give people notice that you intend
to do that.
Lehman/No, all right. The amendment is to incorporate the language suggested by the
Historical Preservation Commission which broadens the applicability of tax
abatement opportunities to properties eligible for historic designation as well as to
properties designated as historic. This is a recommendation from the Historic
Preservation Commission, and we will have that amendment at the end of the
hearing. Other public discussion.
Norton/Wasn't, we ought to be clear about the intent of that with, we didn't want to
facilitate destruction of eventually historic sites that's in the interest of economic
development or something of that kind, wasn't that the issue?
Champion/Right.
Thornberry/That's correct.
Lars Anderson/My name is Lars Anderson I'm the chair of the Historic Preservation
Commission currently and I thought I'd cut in front of Mr. Moen since you just
mentioned the amendment. I'm here to state the reiterate the support of the
Commission for that amendment basically we felt that it would be inappropriate
for the city to use public money for the possible subsidizing of the demolition of
historic properties downtown by amending the proposed plan to include properties
eligible for designation instead of properties that currently are designated we
would eliminate that potential problem and make sure that any abatement, any
proposed abatement would go only towards projects that had been approved by
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#12 Page 30
the Historic Preservation Commission if that property were eligible for
designation. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Kubby/Lars before you leave could you explain the housing component (can't hear).
Anderson/Well currently it's my understanding and David Schoon can address that
perhaps better than I can but currently the tax abatement is for the most part
applicable just to commercial buildings. But for historic structures it's also
applicable to the residential component so currently there are six structures that
are in the area that are currently designated by broadening that to eligible
structures perhaps more structures could take take advantage of the abatement for
the residential component of the structure as well as the commercial component.
Any thing else? Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Marc Moen/My name is Marc Moen and I am one of the owners of the site where the
former Whiteway Building stood. The urban revitalization plan that is being
considered is not the does not provide the level of tax abatement that we had
requested for the proposed new structure but after reading it I applaud the staff
and the council for designating the entire downtown area or considering that. It's
a major step in my opinion to revitalization of the downtown which I think will
benefit everyone. What I really want to impress on the council is the reality of
what revitalization plan will do we still don't have the final figures in on this
project but they are a staggeringly higher than what we had estimated the last time
we were here. At least $500,000 higher than what we were talking about. The
costs are high enough that I can tell you now with certainty that without tax
abatement the project will die. It can't be built without some tax phase-in. And
this is not tax exemption, it's a tax phase-in of the increased value and it's only on
the commercial aspect and it will make a difference between whether this building
can be built or not. This is a concrete example I think of the positive affect and
impact that the tax abatement will have on not just this one site which we had
originally proposed but now the entire downtown area. And it will happen while
at the same time producing more tax revenue than what ever had been generated
without the abatement. So I think it's a win win situation for everyone. Thank
you.
Lehman/Thank you Marc.
Monica Moen/Mayor Lehman and members of the city council I'm Monica Moen. I'm
also one of the members of the site formerly occupied by the Whiteway building.
I urge the city council to adopt both the urban revitalization plan and the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#12 Page 31
ordinance designating the CB-10 area or portions of the central business district as
an urban revitalization area. The property tax exemptions as indicated by Marc
are going to be of extreme importance to us in order to develop a project and
particularly the type of project that we're interested in constructing on that
property. We've indicated to you and in the informal meetings that it is our
intention to build a building as gracious and as strong I guess as the old Whiteway
building. Without this particular assistance we are unable to do so. And as Marc
indicated and I think that the council is aware this is not a gift in the sense that
funds are going to be given to us in order to build the type of building we would
like to construct but instead it's an opportunity to build I think a substantial
building in downtown Iowa City at a time where it may financially risky. We
have to admit that the intrusion of the new mall at Coral Ridge has had an
influence and an effect on downtown. And to make the kind of investment that
we're looking at making at this particular time is a bit staggering and a bit
frightening. However with this type of assistance not only would we be able to
proceed with building the caliber of project we're interested in building but we
feel this kind of project is only going to complement what has been done by the
city already in the downtown area and the pedestrian mall. It will also enhance
the proposed new parking facility and tower that the city is proposing to construct
and I think will also give the message that the city is interested in preserving the
vitality of downtown. In the long run I feel that Iowa City is definitely going to
prevail in this but I think this particular message from the City Council is going to
be very encouraging to those that are contemplating development and therefore I
strongly encourage to adopt both the plan and the ordinance. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Douglas Jones/I'm Douglas Jones, I live at 816 Park Road and I work downtown. When
I came to town in 1980 1 could buy groceries downtown the Whiteway, sadly it
bumed down but the grocery store left long before that. I used to buy half my
clothing at Penney's now it's moved to some awful mega mall out in the fringe.
My optometrist used to have an office within walking distance of my office. Now
they've established in a commercial center on the far southwest fringe of town.
My dentist used to have an office in the old building next to the Lovetinsky
building which is now a restaurant. They moved to the far south side of town
beyond Kmart. Our downtown is facing a crisis, it's not only the problem with
the Coralville mall, we are losing retail opportunities downtown and losing
professional opportunities downtown at a constant rate and it's not because of a
lack tax support it's because of development planning that's allowing the
commercial center of this town to sprawl out into the fringe and that will continue
unless we make the downtown easily accessible by transit and automobile unless
we encourage development of the core of our city for residential purposes so it's
so the downtown is at the center unless we encourage cultural development we
keep the library vital and centered downtown even if we build a fringe library.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#12 Page 32
That's incredibly important. We could turn industrial development or commercial
tax breaks into a boondoggle by giving out the money and then cutting the legs off
of from it by also building sprawl out on the fringe. So I'm very worried by that.
At the same time I think it's a mistake to apply industrial development policy to
downtown development. We're not talking about factories, or warehouses, or the
toothpaste or pickles or any of those things we see as class examples of successful
Iowa City industrial development. We're talking retail and professional office
space and possibly residential space. The criteria for developing that and the
benefits for developing that are more than just the quality of employment offered
it's also to a huge extent the quality of service offered to the residents of the city.
If we do not offer in the center of our city good quality services to the residents
the residents won't come tot he center of the city to shop, the center of the city
will turn into a depressed area and will end up being a donut city which sadly
we're trying all to often to do. So those are my basic two points. Don't view this
just as industrial development view this also as service development number one.
And number two remember that anything you spend on downtown revitalization
you can cut the legs off of it by also supporting the development of that donut
around the edge. Keep our center vital.
Lehman/Thank you.
Champion/Very well said.
Lehman/Other public comment. Would you like to make the motion to amend?
Thomberry/I would like to amendment to this of the urban revitalization plan to
incorporate the language suggested by the Historic Preservation Commission
which broadens the applicability of tax abatement opportunities to properties
eligible for historic designation as well as to properties designated as historic.
Lehman/Moved by Thomberry.
Champion/Second.
Lehman/Second by Champion. Discussion.
Kubby/I'm going to support the amendment even though I probably will not support the
plan or the ordinance because if the majority of the council wants to do tax
abatement in that area we need to ensure that it does not facilitate the demolition
of eligible building.
Thornberry/Well that's what this says.
Lehman/Well yea she says she's supporting that.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#12 Page 33
Kubby/And I'm supporting it.
Thornberry/Oh OK.
Kubby/The amendment. Yea.
Lehman/I'm going to close the public heating.
Dilkes/I think there's a motion on the table.
Lehman/Oh I'm sorry we have a motion on the amendment. Is there other discussions
on the amendment? Let's see voice vote. All in favor of the amendment.
Opposed. Any other further any other discussion on the part of council before we
close the heating? Hearing's closed.
Lehman/Item 13. (starts to read Item 13).
Champion/Oh I thought we were going to vote on that.
Lehman/No, that' s just the hearing.
Thornberry/That's the next one.
Champion/I just have a comment about the public heating.
Lehman/Oh I'm sorry, please make your comment.
Champion/Well when Mr. Cox got up you know I know he knows better but when he
uses the terminology that he used I think the public gets confused. We're not
giving anybody public funds, we're granting them the fight to postpone part of
their taxes. If we don't allow people to postpone part of their taxes we may not
get any taxes from them at all. And believe me even if we granted the Moen's
every penny they wanted, they're going to pay dearly while it's even under
construction. They're going to pay even more dearly after the abatement is over
with. I don't want the public to confuse tax abatement with giving a public fund.
Thornberry/That's a good Connie.
Vanderhoef/The abatement is only on the increased of value.
Champion/Right, it's not total, it's.
Vanderhoef/It's not even on the total project.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#12 Page 34
Champion/Total taxes.
Kubby/Right and even though I understand that it's only on the incremental value, so it
seems like we don't lose anything we forego, and when you let people forego
their obligation that is a form of assistance. It's not in the form of cash, here's
money, but it is a form of assistance.
Champion/But it's not giving a public fund.
Thornberry/No it's not.
Lehman/Well I think basically the philosophy is that hopefully abatement encourages
development that might not other wise occur or encourage it to develop it to
invest it more quickly which certainly is a good investment on the part of the city.
Now that argument is philosophical and you can argue it forever but (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/That was the intent of the Economic Development Commission when they
set this up as a possibility.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#13 Page 35
ITEM NO. 13. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE DESIGNATING AN AREA OF THE
CITY OF IOWA CITY, IOWA, AS AN URBAN REVITALIZATION AREA
WHICH SHALL BE KNOWN AS THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT
URBAN REVITALIZATION AREA. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Thornberry/Move to first consideration.
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry, seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion.
Kubby/Well I'm not going to support the designated area. And I do so knowing that
then if there were four people who thought the way I did on this larger question
that the Moen's would be out and sometimes to do what I think is best public
policy for the whole community means that it doesn't work for a project that I
believe in and hope happens in the form that your vision has. I want that lot to be
returned to that high density use that that's the way downtown should be. And
that it will have commercial and residential is important to me. I also expect and
want the private sector to redevelop downtown to get those services that Doug
was talking about. But I have to look at the overall public investment that this
community is already making downtown. I think about the ped mall face lift
that's at least a three million dollar project. I look at the multi-use parking facility
on Iowa Avenue that even though it's mostly paid for by parking revenue once
that parking revenue comes into the city it is public money that we are in charge
of distributing for certain purposes, that's another 12 million downtown as an
investment for the community. Then there's the Iowa Avenue Streetscape project
which is another three million dollars as a public investment downtown. And
then if we get to the point of putting a public library a referendum for a new main
library or a new space for a new library downtown that could be another 15
million dollar investment that you tell us to make downtown. That adds up to 33
million dollars potentially of public money spent to revitalize downtown. So I
feel like the public is doing their fair share in investment in downtown and it's
important for the private sector and now do their share of revitalizing downtown
for their personal benefit as well as the benefit of the whole downtown and for me
that means the whole community. So I feel like we're putting a lot of money into
downtown.
Thornberry/(can't hear).
Kubby/And I 'm not interested in having this question of abatement go for the whole CB~
10 or the whole downtown area. If we could find a way to do something just for
the Whiteway property I would support that because it was a unexpected event
that happened. And I think the community has an obligation to help out in that
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#13 Page 36
kind of unexpected situation where they weren't expecting to invest that kind of
money. The laws don't allow us to do that and so in order to have that happen
I'm not willing to make the additional foregoance??? of that property tax money
for the rest of downtown with any investment that might happen because that
money comes into our general fund. And our general fund is the place where we
have the hardest discussions, it's how we'll operate the public library, it's how we
pay most city employees. It's where, it's the tightest, and that I'm not interested
if we weren't making all these other public investments downtown I might be
willing to do it. But since we're doing the I feel like if you know it's a lot, it's a
lot of public money.
Norton/I want to add a comment there because part of the reason that the substantial
investment is going into downtown now is because a great deal of it has been
deferred has been made over the years on a more regular basis, that it was a lot of
the infrastructure get away from us kind a. And so we're facing a big investment
that should have been spread over more years. And I think the private sector does
indeed have to step forth and this is not giving them any girl this is stimulating
them and they're going to pay a lot more over time. I think this is an additional
stimulation that is in addition to what we put in is certainly justified to try to keep
the important component of our tax base downtown. It's a big piece of the action
in this community and we really have to get behind it and I think it's perfectly
reasonable to proceed the way we're trying. Not only with that building but with
other possibilities downtown.
Champion/Well I think also too Dee there has been a tremendous revitalization of
buildings in the downtown area in the last 15 years so we're this might increase
that but it isn't like the private sector has not done a lot to their building. I mean
the Whiteway building is different, it burned down, and so that's what brought all
this up so it can be. For instance my building is now being totally renovated and
it's going to be absolutely beautiful. There's no tax abatement there.
Kubby/Well that makes a point.
Champion/Well what I'm saying, it's already happening Karen but maybe this will
inspire other people to.
Norton/Yea there's more to be done.
Champion/There's more to be done right.
Kubby/I agree totally with the value of stimulation. I think we're doing that to the tune
of potentially 33 million dollars and if you subtract half of that because half of
that's potentially for the library. Still 15 million dollars is a hell of a stimulation,
I'm just being a little more, my feeling with that (can't hear).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#13 Page 37
Norton/It takes money, it takes money to make money, that's the way it goes, right.
Champion/Right.
Thomberry/In the few, in the few square blocks of downtown bordered by capitol,
Gilbert, Iowa and Burlington facing our tax base our property taxes on just the
commercial property that that downtown area is 14 percent or $101 thousand 700
dollars, $101 ,700 thousand dollars worth of income to Iowa City in just the
downtown area. That' s 14 percent of the commercial space in Iowa City and if
we don't take care of that central base folks we're in trouble. And this will give
the revitalization for downtown the capability of expanding upwards because it's
already pretty well infield, without a penny' s worth of money tax money
expended to that tax area, not a penny, it's just future tax money and by year 10
we'll get it all back anyway so it's truly a good idea.
Lehman/Other discussion.
Thornberry/No, let's go.
Lehman/Roll call. Motion carries 6-1 Kubby decending we're going to take a quick
break for probably five minutes.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 38
ITEM NO. 14. THE WINTER 1999/2000 DEER MANAGEMENT PLAN.
Lehman/We're going to have public discussion to start it out. I would like Lisa
Mollenhauer whose been working with this since it's inception to give us a little
history over about where we are and how we got there. And immediately after
Lisa's comments I would like Doug Jones who was a member of the committee to
give us his perception and we'll kind of go from there and see how things play
out. Lisa.
Lisa Mollenhauer/OK brief summary of what we accomplished. In 1997 council
appointed a group of individuals with a wide variety of interest regarding deer
management. That group met over several months and formulated a plan for this
town that was a multi-component plan which included education, continuing to
gather data, use of damage management options like reflectors and warning signs.
And it did also include killing of deer, the group recommended an option that was
not legal in the state of Iowa at that time, the only option to us was bow hunting.
But we felt it most appropriate to recommend sharp shooting as the most effective
and humane method to kill deer in Iowa City. We presented that to Council, you
approved it, that was forwarded to the Department of Natural Resources and we
worked with them over that winter to allow Iowa City to use sharp shooting
which they did finally agree to. The committee met again last year recommended
a very similar plan to you with the exception of a little larger number of deer to be
killed because of the subsequent birth since the plan was recommended
previously. The USDA was contracted to conduct the lethal portion or our plan,
after two days of shooting it was stopped due to a temporary restraining order in
federal court until the item could be heard. The issue that was at hand or issues
that were at handed have been mediated over the summer. Again we lost the
amount of time that we have in order to conduct a kill in Iowa City was passed
when the temporary restraining order was placed. The community gathered again
in April of this year to formulate a plan for this winter, we met several times and I
know some of you attended our meetings and we supplied you with the minutes
and I think you will agree that we have discussed this issue thoroughly again
another year to try to put to you the most responsible plan that we can for Iowa
City. Let me just briefly highlight some of the components of this years plan. We
would number one is education and as I told you last night that's number one for a
reason. We do want to stress to Iowa City's resident's that we do not want deer
eradicated that we need to learn to live with the deer and we do believe that we
can supply the residents who request of us information on how to learn to live
with the deer. We have a couple of new ideas on how to get the message out.
One is the city's web site, production of a video that would be available for
checkout by individuals, or groups, classes, whoever may request it. So we would
like to continue to increase our educational program and here again that is just
something that we will build on year after year. We are also recommending the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 39
additional reflector system on Rochester in an area where we have high deer
vehicle accidents or we have a noticed increased number. WE would also like to
see the Dubuque Street reflector system extended. And in conjunction with the
reflector systems we would like to see deer warning signs placed in each
directional bound lane at the entrance of the reflector systems. This is an
additional heads up. We are also asking that council direct appropriate staff to
determine in transportation project designs in areas that have over 35 deer per
square mile. If a deer or an under passageway would be appropriate and to go
ahead an implement that if cost or other significant factors now prohibited. That is
a little bit stronger language than I think we've recommended to you before. WE
would like to request that White Buffalo assess Iowa City for a contraception
study, this is something that they could perform for us if this is an appropriate
site. We are recommending killing of deer this year, unfortunately the number is
increasing. And we are again recommending sharp shooting as the method of
choice because we do still believe it is the most effective humane method to kill
deer. Other than that we'll continue to compile data and continue to increase our
education program and we're learning as we go you know we're increasing and
improving.
(End of 99-86 Side 2)
Lehman/How many copies of this deer management plan have been picked up do you
know?
Mollenhauer/I'm not aware that any have been, it is available for review at the library,
they were supplied at the City Clerk's and the City Manager's office, no one has
requested any of me and as far as I know as of this afternoon no one had asked the
clerk for any, so but they are available for review at the library.
Lehman/OK, on behalf of the Council we want to issue a thank you very much to you
and your committee. This has been a very very difficult three years, a very
difficult task, it's something that no one really wanted to address. You have a
heartfelt appreciation you and your entire committee.
Mollenhauer/We have really good people on this group.
Lehman/Yea I know you do but thank you and your committee.
Mollenhauer/Thank you.
Douglas Jones/I'm Douglas Jones again 8 16 Park Road, Iowa City Iowa. I've been a
member of this deer committee for since it's inception and I've learned an
incredible amount of deer that I never expected to know because I was not
traditionally interested in the game. And I think in talking about the deer plan it's
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 40
important to get some background in and to be aware that in large part what we're
dealing with now is a legacy left us not by our parents or by our grandparents but
by our great grandparents and their parents. The people who came to Iowa in the
1800's the decisions that that generation made about they would use the natural
resources of Iowa have left a legacy for us. And specifically the legacy they've
left us is a legacy of destruction of natural resources. If you look at the natural
habitat available in the state of Iowa, approximately 99.99 percent of the native
prairie in Iowa is gone. A fraction of the native wetlands in Iowa are gone
however they are probably much healthier on the whole than the prairie remnant
which is so small. We turned Iowa from a state that was characterized as being
bountiful and full of gain to a state where by 1900 deer was virtually extinct
within the state of Iowa. Wolves were extinct within the state of Iowa, mountain
lions they're gone, they used to be a common predator in Iowa, they were the top
predator in Iowa. And now we're in the situation where the deer have discovered
some really nice habitat. The deer have come back and it's really good to get
back a native animal that lived here two centuries ago and that wiped out a
century ago. The problem is that the predator's aren't back and deer are an animal
that is evolved to live with significant predation's, the natural birth rate of deer in
an environment that's as productive as Iowa's natural environment and Iowa's
modern environment because our environment is still productive. The natural
birth rate of deer in that setting is about 30 percent a year and the natural mortality
to predation in a stable deer population in pre-European Iowa was probably about
30 percent a year and that was on a steady population that have might have been
from 5 to 25 deer per square mile with real variation depending on local
environment. Well what was Iowa City's local environment before deer came
here? We were a city or this area and we know this from the records of Gilbert
and Company when they came here and decided this was a good place for a state
capitol. It was what's known as a Savannah, mixed prairie grasses and huge
spreading Oak trees on the hilltops along the river. That turns about to be ideal
deer country, they don't like open prairie, they don't like deepest woods, they like
edge, this had a lot of edge, this was good deer country. We probably had 25 deer
per square mile and of course we had a Mesquaki Village just south of here which
no deer no doubt relied on that deer population for a large part of it's food. We
probably had plenty ofpredators wandering the area too. It was, that's what we
had, we wiped out the predators and we built edge. People build suburbs, people
build tree lines, streets with hedges and open grass and deer love it. People like to
have wooded ravines in their back yards so they can see a little hint of wild and
deer love it. And people don't want wolves and mountain lions living in that
setting. And deer love it and so we have a lot of deer. In fact our deer are
probably reaching the point where in the more crowded parts of Iowa City the
more isolated, the more hemmed in ravines and the areas where the deer
population is the highest. They may be reaching the point where they're
beginning to get a little bit hungry but not facing major threat of starvation.
That' s a few years down the road. OK. That leaves us in a position where we
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 41
have to make some value judgments and the value judgment we face is the value
judgment between the welfare of the echo system and the welfare of the species or
the individual. If you side with the fights of individual animals to life, liberty, the
pursuit of food and reproduction or whatever you describe as those fights you end
up making a value judgment that says that the overall echo system is secondary to
the individual large very beautiful animals and I don't deny how impressive it is
to see a deer. I like seeing them. If on the other hand you look at the echo system
you have to recognize that our native echo system have all put this 5 to 25 deer
per square mile and it doesn't do very well if you start having 50, 80, 100 deer per
square mile. You change from being a very diverse echo system to a echo system
that's dominated by species that deer preferentially avoid. Cause those species
grow flowers, set seed and reproduce and is not dominated by the species they
like. Now some of those species they like are species people plant in their
gardens, Hostas, and White Cedar or Arbavida. I don't have a whole lot of
sympathy for people who keep planting deer food and then complaining about it
getting eaten. Some of the problems people complain about deer are problems
that are really our problem, we have to learn to live with nature and you know
people talk about deer ticks well there are plenty of ticks in Iowa City that aren't
deer ticks and that are also known to be not terribly good for people. If you go
out into the woods, you'll get ticks on you, dog ticks, deer ticks, we've got equine
encephalitis in our mosquitoes. People have to learn to live with the threat of
insects and anthropoids in general and I don't think they should blame deer on
that. The only valid reasons I can see for controlling the deer population in Iowa
City are really, there are two and two halves reasons, or one and two halves
reasons. One reason is the preservation of something approximating Iowa City
native echo system in the wilder areas of town so we don't just get a mono culture
of boxelder and ferns and with lots of thomy hedges undemeath that the deer
don't like. And the other thing that I think we should worry about, the half
reasons, there are two of them. One of them is that automobile accidents are not a
particularly humane way to deal with deer population control. Thank goodness
we're not there in Iowa City, but in Cedar Rapids they reached a point where the
deer population birth rate was roughly in balance with the accident rate which is
to say that most of the deer dying in Cedar Rapids were dying of being hit by cars.
And most of those deaths are slow and agonizing, it's not clean, it's the deer gets
hit and a day later it has expired. That's disgusting, that's no way to be
responsible for our environment. And the other half reason is that if we get deer
populations up to the point where deer fawns have stunted growth from lack of
food we are not doing them any favors. We're making them vulnerable to
epidemic disease and there's some evidence that there are diseases that are can
sweep through deer populations. Deer did not evolve to live at densities of 100
per square mile and when they live at those densities they don't live well, they
live pretty measly lives compared to the lives when they're 25 or 5 per square
mile. So that's the background and that's the choice we face and I think those are
the alternative they're only three reasons that I really will support for and that
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 42
really compelled the committee despite the number of people who complained
about vegetation, damage to their Hostas. There are only 2 and 2 half reasons for
controlling the deer population but I think those reasons in and were compelling
to the committee but.
Kubby/Doug could I ask a question and ask for a brief answer if I could.
Jones/Sure.
Kubby/And that is about your full reason about echo systems struction in terms of native
species. So what kind of, I don't really recall specific information, and I think
that there's a sense of that there's some destruction.
Jones/Yes, yes.
Kubby/The feeling but we're kind of, have there been some specific assessments of that?
Jones/
OK, we haven't done an assessment within Iowa City on a scientific basis
although there's plenty of anecdote about the state of affairs in Iowa City, there
are studies done at the Coralville Reservoir, locally there's a study that's been,
there's some serious study of situation at Kent Park. But even that I'm not sure is
going to tell us anything new, because the fact is our basic mix of environments
available to deer in this area isn't terribly different from what you'll find in
Minnesota or Missouri or Michigan or Illinois or Wisconsin. We have the same
basic species of plants, we have the same basic species of deer, they have the
same basic needs and we're seeing the same basic results. The first symptom of a
large deer population we see is a tremendous decline in the Spring wild flowers
because the deer really like fresh blossoms and this Spring in my lot I live on the
edge of mosquito flats, that's the low land just between, just west of City Park
going towards Rocky Shore as opposed to the high land which is Manville
Heights. This year for the first time I really saw a decline in a lot of the native
wild flowers which I grow on my lot and it was real obvious that the blossoms
were being nipped off. After you start seeing the decline in the diversity of wild
flowers, the next thing you start to notice is what's called a browse line. And this
isn't from selective nibbling, this is from vacuuming up all the vegetation with an
easy reach. And so you've got everything from ankle high to what a deer has to
reach it's head up to do which is about this high, ankle high to your high maybe on
me, head high on shorter people. That gets eaten, and so you've got this really
clear line dividing green from open view and this is really obvious if you drive on
Rocky Shore Drive and look across the river towards the peninsula there is a
really incredibly evident browse line. When I moved into the area gee more than
10 years ago that area on the peninsula was an area where you saw green, a few
tree trunks and green. And you couldn't see into the woods, now from Rocky
Shore Drive you can see all the way through the woods to the open land that use
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 43
to be acom field or a bean field and is now being developed as part of the golf
course and you can see through the woods to construction equipment on the water
lines to the new well field. Because there's this gap that's about five feet wide
from grass at the bottom to trees at the top where everything green has been eaten
out and there's a clear view. That's sort of fun because it's sort of neat to be able
to see a long distance in the woods. But it means the bushes are gone, it means
that except the Bar berry bushes those are nice and thorny and get eaten last. The
bushes are gone, the taller shrubbery, the taller wildflowers are gone and as that
processes continues what ends up happening after they can't reach any higher to
get leaves they start going for the grasses, deer are not good at eating grass except
in the early Spring. But they start getting down and scuffing and eventually you
start to see soil erosion happen. On Finkbine Golf Course or other actually on the
Finkbine prairie remnant which is adjacent to part of Finkbine Golf Course there
are areas where I'm beginning to see soil erosion because the deer have been
actually in this case actually sleeping in places and killing the vegetation by
repeatedly sleeping in the same bed and a gully is forming because it's on a hill.
Those are symptoms of even higher population and lack ofpredators so they can
keep sleeping in the same place every night.
Lehman/Doug we may have more questions of you but thank you very much.
Jones/OK. I think I've taken too long.
Lehman/For those folks who would like to speak, we ask that you sign in, give your
name and limit your comments to five minutes or less. We do have a gentleman
here from White Buffalo, Tony, which at some point. Well maybe now's a good
time, Tony if you'd like to just briefly describe what your background is and we
can expect from you.
Anthony (Tony) DeNicola, White Buffalo Inc./Briefly to reiterate what not completely
hopefully what Doug had said is your decision is a value judgment. And I'm not
here to make any commentary on your decisions. What White Buffalo does is
simply provide technical assistance for resolving issues. White Buffalo is a
nonprofit, wildlife research and conservation organization. We are the only
organization in the country that receives funding through the provision of services
as a nonprofit. Therefore, we can do, we can legally accept donations but we
actively provide services, obtain those fees above and beyond our expenses we
utilize that land acquisition and additional conservation and wildlife related
research. I have a doctoral degree in wildlife ecology, a master's degree in
forestry and environmental science, and a undergraduate degree in biology.
During that time I have extensive experience with a variety of research programs
with an emphasis on white tail deer in suburban environments. I've been
involved in deer in particular, contraceptive research for the last eight years as
well as been actively involved in looking at alternatives to address lime disease
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 44
issues in suburban environments. I guess I was asked here to Iowa City to
provide more technical information on how what I define as a sharp shoot can be
effectively and safely implemented. We have been studying deer and deer
behavior and methods of capture, contraceptive treatment and lethal removal for
on and off but mostly focused for the last years. We have published numerous
papers and scientific joumals presented at numerous conferences that detail not
only techniques but biologic repercussions of these various actions. What we
provide is a system by which we can work in and amongst a fairly densely human
occupied environment in an extremely safe manner with a high degree of
efficiency. Every deer that we remove during our programs is killed by what is
determined euthanasia which is defined by the veterinary medical association as a
good death. And you achieve that by placing a shot in the center of the brain
killing the animal instantaneously. That has always been our objective and we
continue to refine these techniques so that they are not only more humane for the
individual animal but also more compatible with human activity in the
environments in which we work. So in a nutshell without getting into too many
technical aspects of the field procedures that's an essence what we do.
Lehman/Thank you Tony.
Ray Hanson/My name's Ray Hansen, I've spent a few hours in this room over the
Summer attending the committee meetings. I have one quick question for Tony
actually. Do you use bow hunting at all in your programs of any kind? I asked
Tony that?
(can't hear).
Hanson/Oh I'm sorry, go ahead, I thought you were.
DeNicolaJ We have used what we call archery sharp shooting on occasion to remove deer
where there may be what we consider unnecessary fear of discharge or firearm but
we have not been able and it is an interest of ours to coordinate or help coordinate
the logistics of implementing what we consider nontraditional hunting which
includes archery but also firearm deer control.
Hanson/On with that I've got the statement this is not a question I'm just going to read it
here. The deer committee at one point unanimously voted to allow what they
labeled as archery kill method to be used by White Buffalo only to discover the
cost factor was prohibited. To me this means that archery fit their criteria as an
acceptable method of reduction other than cost. Contrary to what was said in last
night's meeting a bow hunt program is still well within an acceptable time frame
for this Fall. Tim are you? Yea is that correct? If Iowa City wanted to
implement a bow hunt this year is the time to do so.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 45
Tim Thompson/Tim Thompson of the DNR, basically he's just asking the comadics???
about the time frame, we need another microphone, without doing such a thing
like some other cities have done with a controlled bow hunts, Iowa City because
of the sharp shooting they have been listed in the administrative rules of the
Department of Natural Resource has a special management unit and so because of
that they're sort of on a list that different assistance is available depending on
which type of methods you might want to recommend for control of deer and I
think what Ray's asking is is there a time flame there? Yea things could be could
be done within a time frame that if that was an option you want to consider it
could be done for this year.
Hanson/I just want to make sure it's clear to the council that they have an option or an
additional method that has been number one unanimously approved by the
committee at one point is certainly cost effective. It's 100% percent legal in Iowa
and is within an acceptable time frame for implementation this Fall. And that
option is a DNR approved urban bow season for this town, that's the end of my
statement. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Jennifer Thomae/My name's Jennifer Thomae and I've lived in Iowa for 28 years so I've
lived with the deer and all. First a couple of things I guess I'd like to address that
I've heard and I have to hurry because it's past my daughter's bedtime.
Contradictions as far as in a sentence heating the word humane in the same
sentence as kill doesn't sound right to me. White Buffalo who's coming in to do
this to me that's like an Indian term, we ran the Indian's out now we're after the
deer. We don't have a very good track record with that.
Audience/Can't hear)
Thomae/Sorry, doing my best here. First let me say I feel it's wrong to kill something
that's a beautiful living breathing creature just so that a portion of this community
it is not the whole consensus of the community, I'm here to prove this, so that
they don't have to be bothered or inconvenienced. With how much our town has
expanded we really haven't helped the situation at all. In fact maybe the situation
wouldn't be quite as serious as it is today if we left some open land like the
gentleman before me had said when he came up here. We're cluttering it, my
uncle, my brother-in-law if they see me I'm in big trouble because they're both
pretty big contractor builders but we're putting up so many buildings and homes
for ourselves. I just want to know where people expect the deer to go. What
option have we given them? And is it really okay to take a life in order to makes
ours easier and better? And not to shock anyone but deer are not domesticated
like dogs, they're not meant to sit and fetch, and just as ridiculous they're not
meant to be confined to small area or space. And we shouldn't be trying to
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 46
control nature, we should actually trying how to learn how to coexist or else we're
not going to have anything left to coexist with except for each other. We have
someone or something that already controls nature for us but should you guys
decide to play God perhaps you can also take care of the overpopulation at the
Coral Ridge Mall. That's all I have.
Kenneth Wessells/My name is Kenneth Wessels and I reside at 724 N. Dodge Street
which is the north side of Iowa City and I am opposed to any sort of lethal
program that you might enact and that would certainly apply to this upcoming
mass kill and I think that lethal projects send the wrong message, your sending a
message that killing off a lot of things in this case big living things is a way to
solve your perceived problems. Where I come to this council and said I'd like all
the dogs that try to get off their chains and bite me I'd like dogs that stand up to
the length of my chest removed from this city, I'd have a fight all the way. And
yet in the last six months the proliferation of those kind of dogs which are
working dogs for protecting problems they're perceived problems as boomed.
But I digress. First of all I'd like to address the traffic problem. We've had four
cars flip over from people driving in excessive streets on the one-ways of Dodge
and Governor within the vicinity of my house in the last two years. Deer were not
involved in any of those accidents. The statistics I've seen from this community
if you average out I think it was 50 deer accidents with the thousands of dollars in
damage it comes out to $1,500 per car, that in Iowa City is a minor accident,
that's a bent fender, that's scratch paint. That's not something to be starting a
massive extermination program over. However, some problems you can solve
and it's the city. We have cars with no mufflers keeping us from getting sleep for
six months at a time they're never fixed on Dodge and Governor. These are the
streets you would be concemed about that's why I'm mentioning these streets. I
happen to live at the sort of the crossroads of this area of concern. Nothing's ever
done, the same cars four or five people coming and going all night all day. We
don't have any solution to the speeding I speak with my neighbors, we love a stop
light at Dodge and Brown, that's not going to happen we know that. It's a
speeders paradise. And so what I'm getting at speeders hit deer's they can't stop
in time, sure a deer's part of nature that comes out of somewhere at you but I
think most people could be able to stop and not hit them because deer are very
good at listening, they operate by sound. But again, a good other, and this deal
with flowers being eaten come one every day we all see truckloads of arbor vitae
being ripped off by private contractors there's no commitment, and I want to
emphasize that from this city or from private developers or from any homeowners
that I know of except for a handful and most of them like the deer to greenery, to
management, to developing you know this is not a garden city, this is not a
horticultural oriented city, this is a mass development city OK. So that's just
hogwash when I hear the deer committee people talking about their love of
flowers, fear (can't hear) hogwash, your setting up a mass kill. Your setting up to
one of the only cities in this country, hiring the only outfit in this country, calling
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 47
yourself a nonprofit to do a mass kill, in a time when in your minds your
separating hunting from the killing of people. If you talk to the psychologist you
will see that why we have young kids pulling the trigger in schools is because
they're removed from it. It's a non-expension of energy to point guns and take
people's lives, often times there's no emotion afterwards. And when you get into
getting a whole community to accept a brain shot, oh a brain shot, they're dead
immediately. Well here's where philosophy becomes a material thing that means
something, the hierarchy of living things. Deer are big enough, if you want to
control the deer try birth control OK, that's all you've got to do. Nobody of the
animal rights people are going to be down on you for wanting to use birth control,
try that. But please don't start using bullets on this community, we have a lot of
bicyclists, we have hikers, we have high school kids that play these laser tag
games and involve using our city parks hopefully only up till 10:30 but and also
probably wooded areas next to where they live out on the edges of town. The
possibility of some of our loved ones being shot in this mass expansion of bullets,
your talking maybe 700, 700 bullets, 700 shots, your talking guys driving around
in trucks on platforms, your going to be ignoring people's property rights. It's
going to be the law of the military, you stay out of this guys way because he's
armed, because he's got some kind of authority okay. We don't want that in this
community and I'm sure I'm speaking for a lot of people you know. You know
you guys sit up there in civilian outfits but your really like a pure military outfit.
We've watched you guys for years. Your cutting trees down. What is going on?
The city is taking trees down, and shrubbery and everything on a massive scale on
the noah side. I don't want to hear any crap about this being some city where
people care about greenery. Every deer I've seen for two years is nuzzling up
grain and stuff on a couple farms out by the interstate. Sometimes they roam
around. I just think that that I hear from Doug Jones is not the truth. I don't think
the number's that we're heating from the DNR are the truth. But personally I
don't think anybody who supports the project cares about facts. We're hearing
intellectual thoughts, we're hearing silver words, we're hearing reason, but your
going to speak with bullets, you're going to speak and stink of gun smoke and
your dragging carcasses off I don't think any poor people want to eat your crap
that you grind up from the deer you know. I think the shame, the shame that is
being brought on this community may finally put an end to this nonsense that this
is some great city. Because it's nationwide and I'm urging you to think to the
future. We don't want bullets, it's not an intellectual thing. Please I mean beg,
begging doesn't help I know and I'm going to wrap this up, I don't think I'm
going to be given 20 minutes like your deer committee was. And who they are?
A couple people, I've seen two people Lisa and Doug over the last two years. A
self-appointed sort of committee it writes in this movie from the last 60's call
"The Committee." I think there's question for a democracy here.
Lehman/Excuse me, if you had bothered to look at this you would have found out who
the committee was, there are 15 people in Iowa City involved (can't hear).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 48
Wessels/Well I'm sure your going to get names on it and I'm sure that your not without
people who share the opinion but nonetheless I think we've got a few prime
movers. But anyway can I just look over my notes and make any last points to the
community if it does any good. Again guns and bullets are not the solution to this
kind of problem. Your making the distinction that it's just animals.
(can't hear)
Lehman/I'm sorry.
Wessels/I watch a lot of shows on it but you know I think I've made my point you know
I hope you get stopped again in court.
Lehman/Thank you.
(can't hear).
Kubby/I thought some points were made up that I think made some clarification. Could
we do that now while they're in everyone's mind?
Lehman/(can't hear).
O'Donnell/Public discussion then we will.
Lehman/Well make a note of the points though cause I think we'll go for a while and
then we will talk about some of them. Go ahead.
Jim Ponto/I'll change here a little bit I live at 618 Brown Street, it's a beautiful property
formerly owned by former city mayor Loren Hickerson and if any of you knew
Loren he loved his flowers. When we moved into that property four years ago
there were some beautiful flower beds, we saw occasional deer. During that four
year time it seems to us that every year the deer have doubled in population with
corresponding destruction of plants. To a point where it's a simple example, I
have hundreds of day lilies that were there, we get maybe a handful of blooms
because everything else is eaten off. I think one of the most important points
besides the property damage things is back to the safety issue, there are no more
predators for deer except for cars. And I personally have just barely missed
getting in an accident with deer and I think that this deer management plan is a
good one to bring deer back into line with a stable population. Thank you.
EnllTla
Mills/Emma Mills, 1121 Fourth Avenue, Iowa City, for any of you that are not
aware that's in the Sycamore Mall area. I have born and raised on a farm so I
have consideration for animals. The proper method of doing away with these deer
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 49
I do not know. But I am concerned about the children who play in my yard who
are under school age and the deer come bounding across from the railroad track
up to Muscatine Avenue and I don't know how far beyond. In a mile and a half
there are five schools and a large shopping center. What the best method is I
don't know but I truly feel that are children should be above the consideration of
some deer that are possibly to shot. I thank you.
Carol Seydel/I'm Carol Seydel at 125 Taft Speedway. I live with the deer. And what I
would like to say is I live in a cage and we have a 6 foot fence around our garden
and I have 7 plants that are behind a fence in an area probably maybe a little bit
larger than this desk. If they're not in there, the deer have eaten them. Now I'm
not concerned about the deer eating my plants because I planted cannas??? and the
deer don't like them. And they're prolific you can plant them anywhere. But my
concem is I mow the grass and I catch the clippings and I have deer droppings of
course are in the clippings which would indicate to me, I've never really seen deer
in our yard but I know they've been there. And when I dump the clippings and
I'm afraid that I'm you know I'm afraid of disease because of the deer tick and so
forth. Now as far as that's my concern, is I know that there's a lot of them on Taft
Speedway. All right the second point is the deer meat, we've been eating deer
meat for many many years in the form of deer sausage and hot dogs and venison
steaks and meat and it is delicious. It is also antibiotic free and there's nothing
wrong with the meat. In fact if they want to sell some of the meat that they the
city might be able to make a little bit of money being butchered or something.
But the meat is delicious so there's nothing wrong with the meat. But I do feel
that I've lived at that area or I've been on Taft Speedway for all of my life. And
my parents had a garden there up until 1982 and never did they lose a plant or
anything. The deer have gotten so prolific that it is a frightening situation. It's not
so bad, the thing that bothers me too is they're getting smaller. Meaning there are
so many being inbreed that I think the deer, the animal itself is at harms way. So I
think I'm in the area where the sharp shooting would take place and I'm all for it.
I'm not a bit afraid of it and I think that this is the one solution that you do have
for it. Thank you.
Marty Eicher/My name is Marty Eicher and I live at 1609 Ridge Road. We built our
home 46 years ago. I saw the first deer in the yard in 1984. Amazed that it didn't
turn out to be this huge golden dog I thought I was seeing coming up over the
back hill It wasn't too long before they were coming in two's and three's and
six' s and my next door neighbor told me that a week ago Saturday moming he
counted eight came out to scare them away or tried to frighten them away. They
are so comfortable in the yard that they actually don't react with any fright at
turning around or rapping on a window or trying to distract them and convince
them they can go elsewhere. And a few years ago I'd find them resting under the
Pen Oak Tree at 6:00 in the morning and I went out a few times to take pictures, I
have some excellent photographs of the deer and I think they're beautiful just as
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 50
everyone does. They were more beautiful and healthy looking then however than
they are today. The deer I've been seeing six feet from my kitchen window
looking at me right in the ear have very emaciated looking bodies, their bones are
showing, their coat look very very bad. They are of course very hungry, we all
know that. My concern relates to my property and the damage they have done to
the property. Aside from the flowers they are causing a great deal of erosion, I
heard someone touch on that by trafficking on area until there is no grass growing.
But I also have a great concern about whether or not they're going to be
eventually crashing through one of the large windows at the rear of the house. In
1994 1 came home from a trip and found the Hostas garden and everything in it
very much flattened so my son and grandson helped me put up a fence like (can't
hear) which looked like it was well done and aesthetically not to terrible to look
at, it was a light weight fencing and bamboo and so on. And I felt wonderfully
comfortable about the fact that they did respect it and they did not jump over it
and I thought great my windows are secure. And because this was outside the
area of that part of the house. So and in the winter it was so effective that even in
the winter you'd see the deer tracks tearing around the house and almost coming
to a spinning halt as they came within very close to this fence and deer tracks all
around, all over every where but this protected my windows. Two weeks ago for
the first time the deer started to jump in and they did so nightly and repeatedly
and the Hostas garden again was demolished, that's fine but discouraging and the
yard is a bam yard actually. If you walk anywhere in my backyard or side yard
you have to look each time you place a foot down to be sure you can walk
comfortably through the yard. I am very hopeful that this plan will be get your
approval and I hope very much that it will help. Thank you for all your efforts on
this we have.
Lehman/Thank you.
Jay Honohan/I'm like a bad penny I keep turning up. Marian do I have to sign twice?
Jay Honohan I live at 2503 Friendship. I'd just like you to know that where
they've got the deer isn't the only problem with deer in town. We've got the deer
out in Court Hill too and we've got a lot of them, some of them are emaciated or
they sure look it to me and to some of my neighbors and that's a very serious
problem all over this community. I am going to say that I think some of the
comments that were made about the committee were very unfair, this committee
has worked long and hard and deserves our thanks, not our criticism. It's a real
hard problem, I heard something about the White Buffalo and not liking the name,
I thought it was a great name. I think that's real good. They talk about natural
predators a little bit, I think we forget historically we are the most natural predator
of deer, we have eaten deer for years. The Indians that were here before the white
man arrived did the deer, we are a natural predator. Be that as it may disease and
starvation is not a humane way to handle a deer problem. I think this plan is an
excellent plan, I think you have from what I have read a very confident group in
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 51
White Buffalo that can handle this problem. I think we've struggled with this
silly thing for about two years now and I would urge the council to adopt this plan
tonight and have White Buffalo proceed because the City of Iowa City needs it
very much. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Keith Stepanek/My name's Keith Stepanek, I'm sorry, my name is Keith Stepanek.
White Buffalo I think would be a good idea for sharp shooting but I also think that
bow hunting should be a definite option. More of an option than sharp shooting
because I think sharp shooting is going to get litigated again. Because I heard on
the news the other night that they for one thing they were not going to be able to
use suppressers on the rifles. It's going to get litigated again. And so I think that
bow hunting ought to be more of an option than sharp shooting. Thank you.
Lyle Seydel/Lyle Seydel, Carol's husband. We actually live at 445 Garden Street, but
the summer's we spend out on Taft Speedway. A little bit of jocularity. I lived
across the street from Dick Lee, he's only a couple years older than I so I can tell
some stories about Dick Lee. I'm 72 years old, born and raised in this area. Born
in the building that now occupies the Snuffles Tavem in Windham Iowa. Family
of 14, most of the people that I know in that area hunted and that was a source of
meat. We didn't see any deer 1928, 30's, 40's, deer didn't exist. Now farmer's
are begging you to come and shoot them but that's out in the county, we're
talking about the city. The deer in here I don't know that I.
(End of 99-87 Side 1)
Lyle Seydel/Scrawny because they're so inbred. (can't hear) I'd like to join White
Buffalo. I like powder hunt, I get one deer a year and I use one bow. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Charles Ruppert/I'm Charles Ruppert and live up on North Dubuque Road. I think it's
high time we get something done about this deer problem. I've got pictures of
deer, and I've got their antlers and I can tell you where everyone was and how
many come offof the my place every year. I'm right where they cross from
Hickory Hill Park or the cemetery, we have quite a few of them there at a time I
think everybody knows that. They eat off shrubbery, they eat off trees, they eat
off Hostas. I've got my garden fenced, I've got two gardens that got pretty good
sized fence. I manage to keep them out out of the side of the fence anyway. And
I think it's gone too long I realize they're having a hard problem but if some of
these people haven't seen any deer in my neighborhood I don't know where
they've been but I could show them some. Well that's about all I have to say I'm
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 52
glad I got down here tonight because it's even interesting to listen to some of the
people who opposed to this program. Thank you. I hope they get going on it.
Erin Silander/My name is Erin Silander and I live on Grant Street. Didn't want to get up
here but I do have to weigh in for the deer. I enjoy the deer, I love running into
them and not in my car. It's always a delight and a surprise to see the deer and
see them on my walks. I don't favor a lethal solution to dealing with the deer. I
do respect the integrity of the committee and the way they've held important
questions before them. I've tried to look at the real reasons why we're calling it a
deer problem and trying to solve it so I thank the committee for their work. I also
like the committee's emphasis on education and I would like to see resources
devoted to that. And I think we do need to allocate resources for that. So I like
the emphasis of the committee and I enjoy the deer and I definitely do believe that
we have a problem with traffic and with cars. I drive very carefully, never the less
in the last few days there have been many near misses with the influx of students,
in my view those traffic cars and other debris and littering that occur from so
many people are major problems. I'd really like the city to address the traffic
issues. Again well I guess I've made my point. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you Erin.
Margaret MacDonald/My name is Margaret MacDonald. Can you hear me now, put my
name here. I can't approach the council without being thankful for the
opportunity to come here to speak to you about our problems because we have
carefully chosen each of you to take care of the things that we need to have done.
To take care of us, our health, our environment, our wonderful little Iowa City.
And so I want to say thank you for all of the afternoons and evenings and nights
that you've spent and perhaps even worried after you went to sleep about the
things you had to decide for us. So another thank you from the MacDonald
family for living in this kind of city and in this kind of land. I do think we have a
problem that we need to take care of it and it's been very evident and when
anybody has said to us well the deer were here first. No, not where we live, there
were no deer for many many years. We have owned our little piece of property
for more than 40 years and we found something that was so beautiful that mother
nature had created, a little hidden valley and so we have tried to it's beauty and
preserve what was already there so we have lived in a little bit of heaven all this
time but the deer's have wanted to enjoy it with us and unfortunately they don't
have the same standards as we have about what should continue to live and what
should be pulled up and thrown away. And so they have certainly enjoyed the
things that we have added to what mother nature had already put there and I agree
with the gentleman who said the wildflowers have disappeared. Part of the valley
used to be just covered with Jack and the Pulpit but I've seen very a little for quite
a long time and of course I can't raise any Hostas anymore because they like it too
well and they'll come back and watch for the little shoots that come through the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 53
ground, they're even more tasty than the plant was. And so if they don't like it
they try it anyway so they take off the flower or the bud and chew on it and then
spit it out. So we have the remains and no exactly what they've been doing and
we have damages to our home, three windows have been broken and we've even
heard horrible crashes in the night when they've gotten in-between our U bushes
and the house at 3:00 in the morning, they eat day and night, I can attest to that
because I've looked out and seen that the was the cause of the trouble. And so I
urge you to consider strongly passing and pass this issue which you have studied
already. I have known a little bit about it enough to feel that it is the most humane
way because I wouldn't want a deer to go off waddling off down the street with an
arrow in it's hip and maybe suffer from years from that and perhaps die. I don't
think that's a humane way to do it and we must do something because we have
many different reasons the people who pass through our town and don't know that
we have deer and they may very well have a really serious accident. And so we
know people who have had and we feel that that' s a responsibility that we have to
consider so there are many things about this that are important to each one of us
but we need to look at it from different directions and I think a kindness to the
deer would be to at least let them have someplace where they can live when they
do if we're going to have them maybe we'd better go back to having a zoo and
that' s something that we had here when we arrived and maybe if we want our
children to see what a deer is like and how it lives that would be one way to do it.
But I doubt that's anything the council is going to be interested in pursuing fight
away. So I urge you to consider this seriously because they're are many many
voices that you have heard already who have suffered the indignities of the
dammed because of this problem I want to close with a little story because this
happened to me at the Project Green sale a year ago. When I was hunting for
something I could buy that the deer wouldn't eat. So I happened to see a booth
where the City Forester was sitting. And I thought oh maybe he could help me, I
walked over and told him who I was and in asked him if he would give me any
help I felt that it would be good if he could prepare a list of plants and trees and
shrubs that we could pursue and buy for our homes that the deer wouldn't eat.
And he raised himself to his full six foot height and answered me this way. My
dear if the deer could get at the City Forester they certainly would and so thank
you very much for hearing us and we hope this will be a laughing matter for all of
us when we can get together and say we have taken care of the deer so we're not
seeing them in not three's, and six's and nine's. I have as many as 40 in my yard
many many times. So thank you again for helping.
Lehman/Thank you Margaret.
Thornberry/Margaret I'd like to correct something that maybe a misconception. We're
not out to destroy all the deer in town, it's not going to happen. We're taking a
small portion of the deer out. Lisa maybe you can address that but it's far from in
five years if we continue this we're still going to see plenty of deer.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 54
Champion/But you might have 25 instead of 40 Margaret.
Thornberry/Yea yea but your still going to have deer, they love your valley like you do
and you'll still have deer Margaret when this is all over. It'll never be over.
Lehman/We've been discussing this now for about an hour I'd like to wind this up in the
next probably ten minutes or so so if you have something to say please sign in and
make it as brief as possible.
Charles Thayer/I'm Dr. Charles Thayer, I've been a resident of Iowa City for 47 years
I'm a veterinarian and I wanted to give you a little of my background. I've
practiced before I came here in Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey and Oklahoma. In
the Army I was a veterinarian inspecting meat and dairy products for the Army in
the Philippines. I came here in '52 1 had a mixed practice primarily large animal,
I was in practice until '57 and the medical college came to me and said they were
looking for a veterinarian, they had decided they want to consolidate their animal
facilities and also the USDA was pushing to do this. I went to work for the
University as the first Laboratory Animal Director in '57 1 was with the
University until 1980. I remodeled all of the animal facilities at that time in the
medical laboratory which really consisted of each investigator having his own
cubicle with his rabbits, and his guinea pigs and his rats and mice and so forth,
except for dogs which were in a common area and his technician took care of
those animals. Some of the animals had good care, and some had terrible care.
The place was such a mess you had to hold your nose when you went in there.
We remodeled the whole mid-lab, I designed all of the facilities for animals in the
basic science building and out at Oakdale. In my practice I never had any clients
with deer, (cant' hear) but I've had just about everything else. When I left Iowa
City in 1980 1 went to work for the Department of Defense I was Director of the
Atlantic Side Clinic in Panama and we had a variety of exotic animals ranging
from pet Bow Constrictor's to (can't hear) to you name it we didn't have any pet
deer however. Of course when I was at the University with the with the Medical
College I had a rather extensive experience with what you might call exotic
animals from monkey's on down. Some of you may remember after Iowa City
eliminated it's zoo cages down in the park. For about a year they housed I believe
it was one lion and a panther or tiger, about four big cats for the city of peoria
who was remodeling their zoo. I really didn't have anything to do with that
except when that when it got time and Peoria got their zoo finished and they
wanted them back there was little problems to how to get these animals on a truck
and take them back to Peoria so they asked me if I would tranquilize them and I
did and that was really the only experience I had darting big cats although I had
darted monkey's and so forth. I'm here tonight really not to say anything for the
plan I think it's great. I'm here if as I guess as a consultant if anybody on the
council or anybody else wanted to know we heard some talk earlier about the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 55
danger of Equine encephalitis from mosquitoes and so forth in deer. We haven't
had an Equine encephalitis in Iowa in at least 10 years. We heard also some
comments about the value of deer meat, the fact that it is organic and has no
antibiotics in it. This is perfectly true, it's an excellent meat. It can be handled
very what's the word, very well and butchered and so forth and make excellent
meat. We were not fed deer meat in the Army but we were fed horse meat and
that's just good too. Deer meat is excellent so I'm here if anybody on the council
would care to ask me any questions or anybody in the audience that I can maybe
help with. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Vanderhoef/Thanks Chuck.
Deb Green/I don't mean to bud in line.
Lehman/There is no line.
Green/
But I will go ahead and speak so my name is Deb Green I live at 312 Kimball
Road, apparently one of the areas of town that seems to be deer party central
according to studies and I understand people's concem I have neighbors like to
garden, I personally don't and my house doesn't have that much yard it's just all
ravine. I'm hear to talk just simply to urge people to think about the future needs
for deer control. I think it's obvious that there is going to be some kind of deer
kill, I hope that's it's as painless and quick and as humane as possible. It does
upset me I see deer everyday from the back of my house right now I'm watching a
fawn add a set of triplet fawns. It's not something I really wish to have to see to
tell you the truth. I am a little concerned about the sharp shooting and the plans
for it occurring it various places in town and I would like an answer I guess to
whether it's going to happen in the one place designated as last year or if we're
going to see people in the ravine fight there by Kimball Road shooting deer. That
concerns me I don't think it's safe to have high powered guns in city limits in
residential neighborhoods.
Lehman/Well to answer your question, there can be no shooting on private property
without the permission all of the abutting property owners, no shooting can take
place what 200 yards of a building.
Green/OK.
Lehman/So I think those concems are probably not (can't hear).
Green/In reading the papers it was never clear to me exactly how that was going to
happen and how they were going to be in trees or high up so I appreciate that
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 56
answer. The last thing that I would say given the fact that there probably needs to
be something I would urge people to just live in accord with the neighborhoods
they choose to live in. If you choose to live in a house next to a park, if you
choose to live in a house in a ravine be aware that it can't be everything you see at
your local nursery OK. You can't necessarily grow every plant. You can't stop
the raccoons from rifling through your garbage. I mean it's part of the world that
you live in so I applaud the fact that there's an education program and I would
also encourage people to think for the future that even if it costs a little bit more,
if there's a way to stop deer from reproducing that's a far more humane way
eventualling??? the future to control our deer population than to just have these
hunts, these excessive hunts, every every year. So I know it's a difficult problem,
I appreciate the thought and concern that have gone into it. I personally on
Kimball Road would say I see a lot more danger from the traffic on Kimball Road
and the driving going on in this city these days than frankly from the deer causing
car accidents. We saw somebody today my husband said going 50 or 60 miles
down Kimball Road hill. It's outrageous, I mean it's not the deer causing the
accidents, it's the people driving just driving without thought. So thank you for
your thoughts and concerns please do think about controlling reproduction for the
future needs to control deer populations.
Lehman/That' s definitely part of the deer plan.
Green/Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
Roshelle Hansen/My name is Roshelle Hansen, I am not an Iowa City resident, I'm
actually a northern Johnson County resident. I'm a wildlife rehabilitator and so I
get a lot of deer, fawns every year from Coralville and Iowa City. I'm mostly just
compelled to present a proposal which would be, I don't know if this has been
considered. Has anyone thought that rather than a massive kill perhaps we could
utilize the sharpshooters to tranquilize and maybe try to get a DNR program
cooperative with Minnesota in which they're trying very hard to reestablish their
wolf populations. That is in effect decreasing their deer population, they think
they need more. And then implementing the birth control. Just thought I would
share that with you as a twist on things.
Lehman/I think that was discussed I know at least a year ago and I assume it probably
was this year.
Hansen/Was it?
Lehman/We can ask the committee?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 57
Hansen/OK. That's all I really wanted to say.
Lehman/Thank you.
Justine Retz/Hi my name's Justine Retz I live at 837 Walnut Street and I just want to say
that, well I have a story I want to start out with, other people have mentioned
stories. When I was a small child about 5 my grandpa would go hunting and he
would come back with the deer and one time I caught him quite by accident and
the deer were hanging there were three or four of them hanging. And it was
terrible, the blood was dripping and it was just awful and I burst into tears and he
just started laughing at me and so that's my memory of seeing deer's slaughtered
with guns so as I can tell I'm against that and I'm for the birth control and what
the previous woman said. Also I see lots of deer where my parents live I don't
want to tell you the address. And they look pretty fat and happy and I look in
their eyes and I wonder which ones will be killed off so I'm very sad about this.
Thank you.
Lehman/Folks we're going to take 5 minutes, we're going to go back we're going to go
for five more minutes and then we're going to have council discussion.
BREAK
Lehman/We need to keep moving, we've got a ways to go yet. Ifthere's anyone else
who'd like to speak to the deer we're going to take no more than five more
minutes and then we will have council discussion.
Doug Jones/Can I (can't hear).
Lehman/Yes you may.
Kubby/Can we first make sure that everyone someone who hasn't spoken has a chance
before Doug gets his second chance because (can't hear).
Doug Jones/I want to make sure to be real brief. But there were three points that were
raised that I think are worth answering. Real quickly, first if a farmer were
running cattle on his land range fed cattle, none of this corn fed business that we
do in Iowa and we're proposing to run 100 cattle per square mile I would be
complaining as a member of the Sierra Club and as an active person involved in
issues of land management. I would be complaining that that is absolutely
irresponsible range management practice that would lead to massive destruction
of the range, serious erosion and ultimately the depletion of the capacity of that
land to support cattle. We're dealing with a similar situation. The ethical
question we have to ask is whether a 100 years ago our ancestors put it in our
hands and took it out of natures hands by first wiping out the deer and second
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 58
wiping out the predators so when the deer came back with no predators we are
responsible. Are we responsible? If we are what responsibilities should we take?
Are we responsible for managing the resource now that we've messed it up as
much as we did a 100 years ago? That's a serious ethical question and it's one
that I think is fair to address to people who talk about letting nature take it's
course. Do you make a mess and then turn your back on it and let nature take it's
course? Or do you take measures to try to control the mess you've made and in
this case the mess was made a 100 years ago. The second question is people have
talked about birth control. The deer committee certainly addressed it, we studied
the status of birth control, we would like birth control to be a viable option but it's
not an option fight now. Birth control is currently an experimental issue. The
feasibility of conducting a birth control experiment is uncertain because you need
to have certain control on the deer and it's not clear we have that control. Birth
control is something quite reasonable to conduct on an island or in a setting with
high fences around it so that the deer don't get in and out of that area. We don't
know that we would be eligible for consideration as a study site and we're asking
White Buffalo to tell us, can we arrange it to participate in any of these studies or
is that an unrealistic goal? I should point out that birth control isn't a silver bullet
for questions of humane treatment of animals there are some indications that some
of the proposed birth control technologies for deer may have an inhumane aspect
to them. Specifically there's evidence that for some of the birth control
technologies you cause an extended rut so you take a deer that would normally go
into rut in the fall, get pregnant and get it over with and instead you make that rut
last months into the winter. If you get that extended rut deer that would normally
survive the winter and exhausting themselves with rutting behavior and by Spring
you may have significant mortality that would not otherwise be present. We don't
know which birth control technologies raise this problem. What kinds of settings?
It is a problem in or whether it's a problem, but it says it's not a golden bullet.
Finally this question about trap and relocate the deer, move them or anesthetize
and relocate the deer, move them to Minnesota and put them in wolf range as wolf
food. We looked at the option of trapping deer and relocating them not with
regard to whether they would be wolf food or not but simply questions of the
humane treatment of deer is trapping and relocating deer humane? Here it appears
that the HSUS and the DNR are in full agreement neither one recommends
trapping and relocating deer. The mortality of deer trapped and relocated is rather
appalling. It's a species that doesn't take well to that kind of treatment.
Anesthetization prior to relocation may make it even worse but the evidence
we've seen on trap and relocate says that's not an option, it's a horrible way to
treat deer.
Lehman/Thank you.
Dr. Charles Thayer/I have to respond to one thing that Mr. Aston (Jones) said. He said
we I don't know who he means by we, don't know how to do to control deer
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
Page 59
biological means but with the hormones and so forth and that's not true. The state
of New Jersey for a good three years put progesterone in all of their salt wicks, the
male deer then were sterile. The population decreased a great deal. However, the
animal right faction in New Jersey said the Doe's are not happy, the buck's are
not happy, they're not doing their usual thing of getting up on the back's of each
other and having fun and producing babies, we ought to stop this. And New
Jersey stopped it. OK.
Lehman/Thank you.
Thayer/It can be done though.
Lehman/Anyone else like to speak this? OK council discussion. Karen you have some
issues that you wanted to bring up, or have they been answered, addressed.
Kubby/Well I think that there needs to be some further clarification about if this plan
passes and we go with White Buffalo Incorporated just how the shoot would
happen. Where it would happen, what, some more details about the safety
precautions and the issue of private property. So if you could come up again and
just talk about where would the areas of town the shoot would happen and how
that would be conducted. I think it's important information and I'm sorry Ken
Wessels isn't here to, maybe he's watching at home to hear some.
Tony DeNicolaJ Again our areas of activity are really dictating by you in terms of where
you want us to focus our activity. What restriction you place on us as well as
what the state dictates. What we will do is work on some public property. We're
trying to work with cooperating land owners from the peninsula east towards
Dodge and a little south of Rochester. We've looked at various parcels in that
area for suitability for the techniques that we would utilize. We have to respect
the 200 yard safety zone for unoccupied structures. You can work in those zones
if you have permission from the home owners. We will only operate at what we
call designated bait sites, so those are you basically can bring deer to areas that are
safe to operate in, we do not remove deer from areas that not have been
prescreened or prepared for removal. We can operate from tree stands, from
elevated position. We can also operate from a back of a vehicle, again both of
those situations working over a designated site. It can be approved by law
enforcement if necessary if they deem a suitable area based on their further
knowledge as well as use of firearms. Sometimes that makes people feel more at
ease in terms of our discretion or ability to side the safety of our program. But in
nutshell that is in essence how we operate and any further details are typically
discussed with law enforcement or city officials.
Kubby/When you say suitability factors, would you maybe describe what are some of the
basic things you look for to have a suitable site?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 60
DeNicola/OK, suitability is your trying to work in areas where the least amount of
human activity when that's feasible. You always have to have an earthen
backdrop to the area in which your working so whether that's a level ground if
your 30 feet in the tree or whether that is a topographic relief in an area that
provides a suitable backdrop when your operating. You always assume your going
to miss your target and therefore you always assume, or not assume but you
ensure that you have a backdrop that would ensure safe stoppage of that bullet if
you did miss your target. Other factors that do affect suitability are the presence
of deer in the area that your operating. And so those are the two major criteria.
Kubby/And for example I know that one of the areas that might be looked at is Hickory
Hill park, publicly owned land, big space, there are a lot of deer there. There are
also a lot of entrances to Hickory Hill and a lot of people use Hickory Hill at
various times of the day and night. How do we keep, how do we notify, or how
would you notify or keep people out of those areas?
DeNicolaJ What we've done in the past in high use parks which are have much higher
user base than what your dealing with in Hickory Hill park is you will set criteria
in which there are times which you can utilize that park as a public. You can
utilize the present existing time frame or that can be changed to facilitate the
removal of deer. You'd still have to offer a window of opportunity to remove
deer from that area so you would not be able to have direct intervention and need
extent of law enforcement to prevent entry. When we're working all of the areas
are cleared for very clean of any obstruction so you can see humans that might be
in the area even though they're not suppose to be present. You obviously don't
remove animals if you have humans in the vicinity and your still operating a very
distinct zone. And you would fine areas of the park that didn't have as high use
and you can work as late as 11:00 at night till 5:00 in the morning, minimize use
during the winter time if people are in the park again your very aware of any
activity while your working at those locations.
Thornberry/Tony, what's the distance that you shoot these deer? I mean what, I mean
your shooting out shooting obviously a half mile you know to a deer? What's the
range between the ghooter and the deer are you looking for9
DeNicolaJ I'd say on average particularly in an area in Hickory Park where your working
from a tree stand your average shot would probably be 15 to 20 yards.
Thornberry/Is that all?
DeNicolaJ Yea everything is kept in very close quarters and that's again why you use bait
to bring deer into a safe area and you go to where deer are feeling uncomfortable.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 61
And as far as being able to control the environment in which your removing
animals.
Kubby/I'm going to go back to the public notification issue. I know at the peninsula last
year there were signs up even you know you came across the river and walked
through that little wooded area before you got to the open space there were signs
around that parameter and there were signs on the road that went down. For
Hickory Hill would there be signs?
DeNicolaJ Again that's something that would be decided by council or law enforcement.
It would not be unreasonable to post the area for the potential for deer
management program being underway during various times of the day and various
segment of the winter for example.
Kubby/Because I know with the peninsula we kind of said nobody at the peninsula
period for a very long period of time, which was really hard on me because I go
out there and walk all the time. So I wouldn't want to do that kind of blanket
shutdown of Hickory Hill because it's such an important part of people's
rhythm's of their days and weeks. But some notification seem warranted on such
a public park.
O'Donnell/I would be in favor of shutting it down while we're doing this.
Kubby/Over a period of month period possibility.
O'Donnell/For safety reasons Karen yes I would. I think it's very important to have out
of the area when your doing it.
DeNicola/A suggestion that was made is an area like Hickory Hill is not utilized in a
year one program and that's something you can further investigate the feasibility
of removing deer from that type of property based on how we operate so it's
something I wouldn't really think it's an issue when your one.
Thornberry/That' s kind of a moot (can't hear).
Kubby/Thank you for that reminder.
Thornberry/Thanks Tony.
Lehman/Any more questions for Tony.
Vanderhoef/I'd like you to speak a little bit about the use of suppressers. We understand
that it's not legal in Iowa but you have used you've done deer reduction both with
and without and if you could just talk to us a little bit about the differences.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 62
DeNicola/OK the premise behind the use of suppressers on equipment is really for
minimizing disturbance to your community members. We have found no
difference in the efficiency of a program with our without the use of suppressers.
You must remember that is the correct term is suppresser, it's not silencer, it's a
relative reduction in noise, you do not get the result as you see in the movies and
as far as how quite a suppressed weapon system is. So it is very relative and deer
do not respond relative to the volume of noise in terms of the degree of flight so
it's really not an issue of how it will affect the feasibility or efficiency of your
program.
Lehman/Thank you. Do we have a motion approving this? And we'll discuss it.
Vanderhoef/So moved.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef.
Marian Karr/Excuse me, excuse me, it's a resolution and can we do you want to close the
public discussion, accept correspondence first? We need to accept
correspondence.
Thornberry/We can probably do that yea.
Kubby/Move we accept correspondence.
Lehman/Moved by Kubby.
Champion/Second.
Lehman/Seconded by Champion to accept correspondence. All in favor. All ayes.
Opposed, carded. Public discussion is closed.
Thornberry/OK.
Lehman/We have a motion approving, motion by Vanderhoef, seconded by O'Donnell.
Discussion.
O'Donnell/I'd like to make a couple comments. And first I want to thank everybody for
being here, I mean it's really good to hear all sides. We've had a lot of
suggestions during this, one of them is do reintroduce natural predators. I don't
know whether to release these on the east or west side of Iowa City. So I would
have a problem with that. It's been hinted that you have to be an unsafe driver to
hit a deer, I don't believe that either. I believe these deer come out of ditches, I've
almost hit one myself and I've always considered myself a safe driver and I can't
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 63
ever remember exceeding the speed limit. (can't hear) Even as a child. I am
going to support this plan. It's a matter of safety with me, I it's very simple to
me. I would rather control this deer population which is getting out of hand, this is
sport, it's not hunting, it's not gamesmanship, this is eliminating or partially
eliminating the problem. So I will support it and again I want to thank the deer
committee for giving us.
Lehman/Other discussion. I guess I really can't speak for council but I certainly can
speak for myself. I don't think that anybody sitting up here is anxious to do what
we have been asked to do. I think it's not a pleasant sort of thing and it's
something that addresses the situation that we perhaps have created ourselves and
it's something that we're going to have to take care of our self. I will support it,
reluctantly because I like other many other folks, I love deer, they're very
attractive and if I had to be the one harvesting the deer there wouldn't be any
harvest but I will support it for I think the reasons that were given by the deer
committee and also I believe because they have studied this so extensively and I
think there probably is not much more of a caring group of people than that
committee was. And after looking at all the alternatives I think they really did
this one alternative was the only one that they felt that they could unanimously
recommend. And I think they struggled with that one just as I think Council
struggles with it. But I will support it. Other council comments.
Norton/Ernie I just want to add one comment that remind people that this is an ongoing
process we take a look at it every year and we evaluate carefully the results of this
effort at which I certainly am going to support. I think we have to make some
effort to try to deal with this problem. But we are going to be studying and we'll
be looking again each year.
Lehman/Right.
Norton/And everybody I think on the cotmcil has said birth control and education are
certainly the way we want to go but this is our least favorite choice but of any of
those but those are not available yet and we are certainly pursue them in the
future. And we're certainly not eliminating deer I want to reiterate that, we're
going to have plenty with us.
Vanderhoef/The plan even calls specifically that we must revisit the plan each year and
put forth a new plan that will be passed by resolution. The other thing that I just
want to be real clear that everyone understands that the meat will be used, it is
Salvation Army has been the lead group to say that they will store and distribute
meat to our various food banks and to people who need.
Thornberry/In our household in the fall we get many many mice in our garage. My wife
requires me to use a catch and release trap so she's a real environmentalist and
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 64
does not want to see any deer shot, doesn't want to see any deer injured, but she
knows that the numbers of deer that we have are way too high. My personal
assessment of the ecological damage to wildflowers and low plants on our three
acres of home, 2 ½ of which are virgin slopes and wetland, the damage is just
astronomical. As was mentioned you can see through the trees, there are no low
no low brush or wildflowers anymore and we've lived there longer than the deer
lives so these are urban deer, we're not living in their area, they're living in our
area. And she does not, my wife does not want to see, she won't, I promised her
she wouldn't have to watch. But she knows that we need to reduce the number of
deer. The trails they've made in the slopes, the starting erosion and their not
looking very healthy anymore and we see quite a few of them but we will be
gone when the shoot goes on because she doesn't want to be around. But she
knows that they need to be the numbers need to be reduced so. She is for
reducing the deer even if she doesn't see it.
Lehman/Roll call.
Kubby/I have something because I'm going to be voting against the deer management
plan as I did two years ago. I did not vote last year because I was out of town
during the meeting when this was discussed. And in voting no this is meant as no
disrespect for the work of the committee and I know that you understand that.
And I basically have two reasons and their from real two different parts of who I
am. The first part is just this more emotional gut level kind of religious, spiritual
aspect of nonviolent philosophy of living. And wanting to base my health or my
lifestyle on causing harm. And that's harder to articulate and I'm not going to try
to do anymore than I just did. But the other part comes from a more academic
scientific background of wanting to not just feel that there' s a problem but an
understand the problem a little more and when I'm glad we've done the helicopter
counts because I think they help us assess our problem more specifically. But
when you look at points of information, two points of information are helpful and
help you continue to ask questions and to help you focus where you ask the next
set of questions, and until you have at least that third point of information you
really don't have scientifically a trend. And so I assume we will continue to do
the helicopter counts and even though we're seeing in certain areas numbers
increasing and increasing fairly hugely it's still just two points of information.
And so I have some problem with us going to the lethal methods before we do
that. And the other thing that I hope will happen is the answer to the question
about assessment of native species I don't think it was answered very anecdotally
and I hope that we will try to maybe collaborate in the future. There's a Steve
Hendrickson's on the committee, teaches a plant called Plant Animal Interaction,
a great course. And maybe that class or some other university person could put
together some kind of parameters for doing some kind of assessment of our native
species because I think it's an important reason, for many reasons. And I just
haven't, like I sense that that's happening, but no one's shown me that that's
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#14 Page 65
happening, and where it's happening, and how it's happening and so I have a
problem that that information isn't there and hope that we will strive to
understand that better. And so for me those answers, they may be for some
people in the audience that those and on the committee that those answers were
sufficient were them. Maybe I didn't explore things enough but for me I don't
understand those issues enough to be able to go against that other part of myself
that doesn't want to do the lethal aspect in order to solve this problem.
Thornberry/I don't know how you can justify that stand Karen when you were kind of
proud of your dog running around catching little varmints and killing them and
bringing them to your front door and you allow your dog to do this but you don't
want to kill the deer that are obviously causing a lot of problems. I just can't, I
don't see how you can say I'm holier than now about killing deer but gees it's
kind of neat that my dog brings back dead animals. I don't understand that but.
Lehman/Well I guess you.
Norton/Neither we can.
Kubby/Well then you don't understand who I am.
Lehman/We're not going to change your mind. Roll call.
(END OF 99-87 SIDE 2)
Lehman/Motion carries 6-1 Kubby voting no.
Kubby/Rude comment by Thomberry.
Lehman/I beg your pardon.
Kubby/With rude comment by Mr. Thornberry.
Thornberry/I didn't think it was rude I just didn't understand how you could vote one
way and say that you didn't believe it the other way. I just.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#16 Page 66
ITEM NO. 16. AMENDING TITLE 8, ENTITLED "POLICE REGULATIONS,"
CHAPTER 4, ENTITLED "ANIMAL CONTROL."
Lehman/This is regarding micro chipping of impounded dogs and cats and invisible
fences. Public discussion. Is there anyone from the public like to discuss this?
Public discussion is closed. Do we have a motion to consider the ordinance?
Norton/So moved.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Norton, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion.
Kubby/(can't hear)
Thornberry/I won't be voting for this due to the fact that I would rather give my
permission to have my dog inserted with a congection??? and I don't want it to be
done without my permission so I'll be voting against this since it. I would rather
have my permission done.
Norton/Emie I'd like to, I just want to point out Dean that the version that we have
tonight does make the change we discussed last night.
Champion/Oh good.
Kubby/Would you outline that?
Norton/That the micro chipping would only be done on animals which do not have a
trace that are picked up and do not have a trace of identification.
Thornberry/I understand.
Norton/That are picked up without any evidence at all.
Thornberry/I'm just saying if a dog if a dog is tied up in a yard and he scootch's out of
his collar where the identification is located and is picked up by the animal
control people, I understand it's not until the third time that that this happens that
they're going to inject my dog with this chip and I would just as soon I would just
as soon give my permission to give my permission to do that as oppose to.
Norton/If you call promptly I am sure you would get that done if you call promptly to
identify the dog, I don't know, Misha how does that work? If he called fight
away to say hey my dog's gone, if you get it don't microchip it.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#16 Page 67
Misha Goodman-Herbst/I suppose if you called right away perhaps that might be the
case but that generally isn't the case. Once an animal is impounded with no
identification it's the property of the city and at that point, there's no microchip,
there's no tattoo, there's no license, there's no rabbi's tag, there's no identification
tag, the animal would be chipped. On the first reclaim, not on the third.
Thornberry/On the first?
Goodman-Herbst/On the first, yes.
Lehman/The cost of that is what?
Goodman-Herbst/$10.00.
Lehman/$10. 00.
O'Donnell/I was not going to support this but you know you gave us, did we have a
percentage of how much this will reduce the number of animals that have to be
euthanized.
Goodman-Herbst/I'm not sure I can give you a percentage at this point.
O'Donnell/(can't hear).
Lehman/In Iowa City we don't use anything.
O'Donnell/They don't.
Goodman-Herbst/I can tell you that, I can tell you that out of the hundred percent of
animals that come into the shelter 50 percent are repeat offenders.
Thornberry/Oh really.
Goodman-Herbst/That still do not have identification the second or third or fourth time
they come in. I won't have a percentage for a while.
O'Donnell/It states here, it states here that this will reduce the number of euthanized
animals.
Goodman-Herbst/Yes I believe it will, anytime you have any type of identification on an
animal and you can return that animal to the owner you don't have a problem with
holding that animal anymore.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#16 Page 68
O'Donnell/Then I will support it.
Thornberry/I'd rather bring you a mug shot of my dog and you can do it that way as
oppose to.
Vanderhoef/Misha would you comment on your experience in animals and the micro
chipping as far as infection or any damage to the animal.
Goodman-Herbst/I've been doing micro chipping personally for over 15 years. I did a
different company type, there are a couple different companies but I did a
different company type in California. I have seen not one chip migrate that that is
a problem sometimes. Nothing is perfect, none of these companies will tell you
that their chips are 100 percent they're going to stay where you put them. But if
you train your personnel properly to scan the entire animal it's not an issue. You
can find the chip in the body, it doesn't migrate out of the body, it's in the body
and it can be scanned. I have never seen an infection at the site of a microchip or
an animal responding to what a lot of people call foreign body going into the
animal. So in my experience with the Los Angeles zoo, with a variety of different
vets and other animal related professionals who use this it works, and there hasn't
been any problem.
Thomberry/I have no.
Goodman-Herbst/We have a tremendous amotmt of vets in the area that are using it.
Thornberry/I have no problem with micro chipping, like I have no problem with
tattooing an animal with the owners permission.
Norton/That will be the case for most cases right.
Thornberry/In most cases fine.
Goodman-Herbst/Right and in the rewrite.
Thomberry/Just your.
Goodman-Herbst/If it has an identification.
Thornberry/Your going to microchip the first time the first time that animal comes that
you pick that animal up your going to microchip it.
Lehman/Without an ID.
Kubby/If there' s no identification.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#16 Page 69
Norton/If it has no ID.
Thomberry/Well if it scootches out of it's collar.
Kubby/Yea understanding.
Thornberry/I just.
Goodman-Herbst/Dean if you animal comes in the first time it has scootched out of it's
collar, and we let you take it back. OK. Often times animals learn how to do
these things so it does it the second time. The second time it doesn't have ID, we
didn't microchip it, it's been hit by a car, the dog is going to die if it doesn't get
treatment, the city can't afford to treat this animal. We need to get in touch with
you, we can't, we don't know who you are.
Thornberry/Yes you do. I know you Misha.
Goodman-Herbst/It's an example that happens that's a problem.
Thornberry/I'll give you a mug shot, just don't chip my animal.
Lehman/All fight.
Goodman-Herbst/We want to afford owners all the opportunity they possibly can to get
their animals back.
Champion/I think it's very beneficial to have a tag on your dog, I think I would love that,
my dog was always running away.
Thornberry/Ask the dog.
Goodman-Herbst/All of your dogs run away.
Lehman/It sort of was made for you Connie.
Champion/I know it.
Lehman/Any other discussion.
Kubby/So the fee, to be clear about what changes we're making. The invisible fence is
not considered a fence under the ordinance and so if you have an invisible fence?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#16 Page 70
Goodman-Herbst/To contain an animal, yes, from entering onto public property it's not
considered a containment area.
Kubby/OK, so if you have an electric fence you need to have a physical fence or have
your dog chained or tethered or on a leash or have a kennel as well.
Goodman-Herbst/Yea, yea.
Kubby/As a visible fence, just so people are clear on that. Is there a way too that we can
provide some educational materials in places in town where invisible, oh I
shouldn't use that term because it's like Kleenex right?
Goodman-Herbst/Right.
Kubby/Electronic fence, is that? It's not really the right term. Anyway, invisible fences
to put some information so that people understand the change of this ordinance
that this isn't going to be enough.
Goodman-Herbst/Sure, I think the water division was interested in doing some literature
to things that go out to them. Yes so I think we can do that.
Kubby/I think that would be a good idea for public education.
Vanderhoef/How about those places whose might sell the fences?
Goodman-Herbst/There are two, I looked that up, there is a company in Moline, that is
the Invisible Fence Company, the Kleenex company, and there is a distributor I
believe it's Cedar Rapids, there's no address, there's just a phone number of
another type of system. There isn't anyone in the general local area that sells this
system aside from Farm & Fleet Stores.
Thornberry/Menard's have them.
Goodman-Herbst/Yea yea.
Vanderhoef/If isn't so large as far as public information it wouldn't hurt to let them
know that we have changed our law and.
Goodman-Herbst/We could post things at the places that we do know who sell.
Champion/Well we really haven't changed the law, it never was considered a barrier.
Goodman-Herbst/It never was.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#16 Page 71
Vanderhoef/(can't hear) But it's not been clear.
Champion/And I think that.
Norton/It might be wise to post notice if that suitable if that's possible yea.
Champion/Well also I think people need to realize we're not going to be running around
in people's yards looking for their dog laying in the front yard and arrest it
because it's not in a fence but there have been problems with people reading water
meters and electrical meters with dogs that leap through these electrical fences
and that's the problem. So if you have a problem dog then you might want to
keep that dog inside when your meter's are going to be read. Or the mailman
comes.
Lehman/I think it would be a good idea to identify the veterinarian most pet owners do
have regular contact with a veterinarians and if veterinarian's know about the
chipping process and the electric fences that's probably the best way in the world
to let pet owners know about it and they would post it in their offices I think every
one of them.
Champion/And Misha isn't that electric fence, invisible fence, isn't that really just more
of a training tool?
Goodman-Herbst/No I mean there' s training that goes on with the use of it. The question
is is if the system is such that it's not a very good system or if the training isn't
done appropriately or if it's not repeated for a dog that needs continuous training
then it doesn't work well.
Norton/And it doesn't keep children from going across it and so on and on.
Goodman-Herbst/No.
Lehman/Only if they're wearing dog collars and bark.
Goodman-Herbst/Well we got a call yesterday that there was a dog running around town
with his little collar beeping.
Thornberry/Just want to clarify too these this chipping is going to be on cats as well as
dogs?
Goodman-Herbst/Yes.
Lehman/OK, further discussion. Roll call.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#16 Page 72
Thomberry/Turtle. Tip turtles.
Lehman/Motion carries, 6-1 Thornberry voting no.
Thornberry/Tip turtles.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#22 Page 73
ITEM NO. 22. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND
AUTHORIZING MAYOR TO SIGN AND CITY CLERK TO ATTEST
CONTRACT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE RIVERSIDE
FESTIVAL STAGE PROJECT IN CITY PARK.
Lehman/Architect's estimate was $340,000, low bid was $353,950. Parks and
Recreation is recommending the award of the project to Moore Construction for
the low bid and I guess we all know that our estimate originally we started talking
about this it was about $120,000 this makes it about three times by.
Steve Arkins/Ernie I'd like to remind you that this their estimates, we did not prepare
that estimate.
Lehman/I beg your pardon.
Arkins/We did not prepare that estimate.
Lehman/I think we threw that number out, oh no, I.
Atkins/We did not throw it out, it was given to us.
Lehman/340 is the one that was an architects.
Arkins/That's the one we went to.
Vanderhoef/The 120.
Lehman/Our guesstimate maybe that was something put in by somebody but there was
no basis for that.
Arkins/It was given, thank you.
Lehman/All fight.
Kubby/Does the resolution include the alternate?
Arkins/Yes.
Norton/Yea.
Vanderhoef/Yea.
Letunan/Including the alternate that's correct.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#22 Page 74
Kubby/And the altemate.
Norton/I move adoption, oh pardon me.
Kubby/I want to be clear about what the altemates are, is that the floor as a more
substantial long-lasting floor? You describe the alternate.
Karr/While Terry's coming up could we have a motion to put it on the floor for purposes
of discussion.
Thornberry/So moved.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry.
Norton/Second.
Lehman/Seconded by Norton. All right.
Terry Trueblood/The alternate is simply to bring in three-phase electrical power and the
closest place to bring that in from is Park Road, that was discussed originally,
well it wasn't discussed originally. Originally the power that we had there that we
could bring over from near the rest room in lower City Park was considered
sufficient power but subsequent discussions after the bid document, bid
documents were out it was determined that the three-phase power would be
needed for future use otherwise we could be in the middle of a play or a concert
and everything goes black. That's the reason we're recommending that add
alternate.
Kubby/This allows greater uses.
Norton/So Terry usage of the stage and so forth we are already built into the 340 is.
Trueblood/It's the original estimate, that's correct, yea.
Norton/Yea, OK.
Lehman/Other discussion. I see that this is going to be funded by GO bonds, grants,
private donations, and possibly additional City funds. This is something that
we're going to work out as we move through this?
Atkins/You'll be getting your Capitol Project review before too long and we'll have to
make a decision on that. It will be our awarding a contract that we have not
funded fully, but we do have a number of grants pending.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#22 Page 75
Lehman/Well the next two items are associated with this.
Atkins/Yes.
Norton/Ernie I have one concern I want to get on the table I don't know when it's going
to affect. Taking another look at that area the parking in the park is quite a ways
from the stage. I trust we're not looking at more paving for parking, is that a
potential down the road?
Trueblood/The only thing that' s been discussed in terms of the possibility of more
parking would be right out in front of or immediately east of the stage area. You
know it's got those two little indention's in there that each accommodate three
vehicles and we have had some discussion about the possibility of just connecting
which would provide space for maybe 15 to 20 more cars, but that's the only
discussion we've had about additional parking.
Champion/Is there a way to walk down from upper City Park from there?
Trueblood/Right down over the hill.
Champion/Right.
Lehman/Pretty steep.
O'Donnell/Aren't those steps still functional?
Trueblood/Those steps are still there, functionality would be a question you'd maybe
have to ask somebody else, they're not in the best condition.
Champion/I would rather.
Norton/Maybe we could put in a slide.
Champion/(can't hear) a slide, a water slide.
Vanderhoef/How do we get back up?
O'Donnell/Those are the greatest.
Norton/Well it will probably become a problem I see it blooming but I'm for the project,
we'll have to deal with the parking later I suppose.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#22 Page 76
Treeblood/Well we're certainly have to we're going to have to be careful not to schedule
a Shakespeare play at the same time that Proctor and Gamble's having a picnic or
something like that.
Norton/Or mna shuttle bus.
Treeblood/Or a train.
Lehman/Further discussion. All aboard. Roll call. Motion carries.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 77
ITEM
NO. 26. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING, AUTHORIZING,
AND DIRECTING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK
TO ATTEST AN AGREEMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF
IOWA CITY, THE IOWA CITY PUBLIC LIBRARY BOARD OF
TRUSTEES AND ENDBERG ANDERSON OF MILWAUKEE TO
PROVIDE CONSULTANT SERVICES FOR THE DESIGN OF THE
IOWA CITY PUBLIC LIBRARY PROJECT.
Kubby/Move adoption of this resolution.
Champion/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Kubby, seconded by Connie. I have a comment, last night during the
discussion with the Library board it was we were told or at least I have the
agreement that I understand is that this project on 64-1-A will also include a
proposal for the expansion of the present building. Do we need to amend this to
include that?
Eleanor Dilkes/It's my.
Lehman/Well go ahead. I think it was obvious last night that there is a limited support
for 64-1A. My personal feeling and the reason I am going to support this is
because I feel that there a fair amount of merit in getting a proposal on the library
building itself the expansion and that was the situation I suppose under to which I
agreed to support this. But this resolution does not require that.
Dilkes/No my understanding in talking to Susan Craig is that her intention is to keep this
contract and have this one just leave it as it is and it will only develop when
preferred option and then she the library board will fund the what is necessary to
bring that second proposal to you? Is that correct Susan? You might want to
elaborate on that.
Susan Craig/I spoke today by telephone with Chuck Endberg an architect that's the
contract is with. And he is pleased to look at two different options and of course
well it will cost some more money but it shouldn't cost a lot more because they
have the building design, the building plans for the current building and they did
do considerable work with that building plan when they designed the joint project
which included the community events center. They had to look at the building
that we're in because that was part of that proposal so they're familiar with it and
we agreed that if this was approved tonight we would just do an addendum, a side
letter whatever and he's going to let me know by Thursday when the Library
Board meets and they can approve that expenditure from their girl funds.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 78
Lehman/Susan in, well, just a question for you. In view of the lack of overwhelming
support for 64-1A which I think is an accurate statement. Is it possible to get a
proposal on the expansion of the old library building sooner rather than later? In
other words sooner than before we spend all the money on 64-1 A?
Craig/Well we've I suppose we could, one of the efficiencies that we have going here is
that the architects are going to be in town for a day day and a half and they will
deal with both proposals at the same time.
Lehman/I realize that but when it comes to the actual work of preparing a proposal they
obviously can not work on one at a time. The reason I say this and I'm being flat
honest about it most of the problem associated with I think Council are problems
that are created by building on 64-1A. If there is a proposal for the expansion of
the present library is acceptable to the Council is something that would fly. It
may not be necessary to spend all the money on 64-1A. I mean that's, I think
that's your (can't hear) but I also think that based on last night's meeting that the
tape to the library board should be free, pretty clear that there are three strong
supporters of 64-1A. There are three total non supporters and a fourth whose got
some serious problems with 64-1A.
Craig/I think the library board heard that message long and clear.
Lehman/OK. But I just would like to see that, personally, I'm speaking for myself. But
I'd like to see that sooner than later.
Craig/I think the library board would like to see the comparisons between the cost for the
two projects so you can look at them side by side.
Lehman/And we have preliminary costs right now for 64-1A, you told us last night 15-
16 and a half.
Craig/And that doesn't include parking, the underground parking.
Lehman/Yea and we don't have the cost for banning the present building.
Craig/We have a preliminary cost that was done in 94 or early 95 that was 11 point some
million dollars for construction that didn't include all of the fees and the furniture
and equipment and other costs associated with it.
Lehman/But that can be updated quite easy.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 79
Craig/Right and that's why I say I think I'm hoping it's a fairly inexpensive job to take
those figures and update them and you know make sure that design is still
feasible.
Vanderhoef/So you'll be working off of your information from 95 or 94 or whatever
year it was they did that and extrapolating out from the 11.5 million that was
suggested.
Craig/Well that proposal was developed by a different architect. That was two
architects ago so and we are working with the one currently that designed the joint
facility. And he is familiar with the building because he designed the building in
1979 so he's pretty familiar with the building but he did not do the proposal we
looked at in 94-95.
O'Donnell/I'm one of the people that does not support using the vacant lot. And there
several questions that I have on this and they've been not addressed. One of them
is we're going to be left with a substantial building there vacant. Another is we're
going to be using the last spot that we can build and expand in Iowa City. We
have not to my satisfaction and I don't know how to anybody on this council
satisfaction address operating costs for that as well as a parking structure. And
consider the parking structure we're building a 12 million parking structure a
block and a half away. The proposed new building is directly next to a parking
structure and we're building a parking structure so it just I there's many things
here that just are not (can't hear).
Craig/
I hear you Mike and the parking is an issue wherever you go. It was interesting to
me looking at the Riverside Theater project in City Park what do people ask? Do
we have enough parking?
O'Donnell/We're investing a substantial amount to direct that problem and I just I just
I'm very uncom. I favored expansion and I still do but I do not favor using the last
piece of ground downtown that we can put up a tax-free building on.
Norton/Ernie, I have a couple questions I want to be sure we get. Because we need to get
a decision here. When you explore the freestanding library on 64-1A will the
study consider give us the cost with and without underground?
Craig/Certainly.
Norton/And with and without for support with upper floors?
Craig/Certainly.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 80
Norton/Okay, now if you, in the study however it's funded we're looking at expansion of
the present building, will that consider the 7 or 8,000 thousand square feet on the
second floor?
Craig/Yes.
Norton/Or is it possible to expand to the south of fauced? Plus added costs for the
structural support to enable us to go to a third floor.
Craig/Well that' s a must.
Norton/It seems to me that we need to see all of that package to understand where we're
going.
Craig/We can direct the architect's when we develop our proposal for 64-1A if there's
underground parking and it's configured like this what is your estimated cost. If
there is no underground parking what is your cost.
Norton/What about for expansion?
Craig/If we want to make options of building 6 or 7 levels above on Linn Street the way
there was for the joint project, we can certainly.
Norton/Well on top of the whole library for all.
Craig/Sure, we can say what does that cost?
Norton/We need the footing cost.
Craig/Right, we need the footing cost.
O'Donnell/Or attach the sky walk.
Craig/To put the third floor on the current facility would certainly require the footing
cost.
Norton/I understand that.
Craig/And it does include and we couldn't get enough space if we didn't take the space
on the second floor as well.
Norton/And what about the south fauced?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 81
Craig/And my memory of that design it bumps it out a little bit and it fills in the ramp on
Linn Street.
Norton/OK, okay then.
Craig/You k now there's a long ramp there and that that is actually enclosed and
becomes interior space instead of.
Norton/Okay, that's your best job of trying to expand on the present site yea right.
Craig/Right.
Norton/So we'll have the full story then that's all I wanted to be sure however it much
cost we ought to have the full story.
Lehman/No I think that's true and I really think personally in view of the discussion last
night that it would be I think very well received by most of the council to define,
most of the problem associated with those who do not support the 64-1A might
very well be addressed by a good look at what an expansion project really
involves. Total whole works, and I'd like personally to see that sooner rather than
later.
Norton/Absolutely.
Craig/OK.
Champion/Well I I think it's, I mean I'm open to expanding the present library if it's
feasible, I'm not hung up that it has to go on whatever that lot number is but I am
in favor of expanding that library somehow and sooner rather than later and I also
feel strongly that it needs remained downtown and I'm very much against a
branch at this point in time. So whatever you need to do Susan please get it done.
Lehman/Other discussion.
O'Donnell/I thought we had a wonderful opportunity to do some kind of collaborative
project with Kirkwood and I don't want to put that away I'd like to look at that
down the road because I think the east side you've got five schools out there,
we've got Kirkwood and a mass population that would I think would utilize a
library that they would deem more accessible.
Champion/The other thing is I was down, one the reasons I feel so strongly in keeping
our library to still be downtown and it's not because of the business downtown
and I'm getting to retirement age and that won't affect me. But I was just in
College Station Texas and this is a town a size Iowa City, the University about
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 82
the same size and it has a really beautiful campus, they have a lot of money, the
campus, the university does or whatever it is. It's a puddity town, they lost their
downtown, there is nothing there, it's strip malls, it's bookstore are strong out like
Walmart is here, there's no little restaurants downtown, there's no little, it doesn't
even have a nice Campus town like Ames does. Not that it's nice but at least it's
something so you know when you look at the future of Iowa City those kind of
mixture of college and town and culture and library's and little theater's I think we
have something really special. I think we have to really preserve it not just for
economics, well it is an economic issue. But that we're really different than most
college towns and we're really lucky to have this, we're really lucky to have this.
Kubby/Well I don't personally see the need for doing both proposals but I'm quite
willing to do that so we can move forward. I think it's been very clear for a long
time that a stand alone main library on 64-1A on that Holiday Inn lot will be more
will be the same or a little bit less cost for square foot to do and that the operating
costs wil be less as a burden on the community for providing those services in the
short and long run of the operating costs and that what it is it provides us with a
wonderful opportunity of having the old library building which I think it much
more marketable than 64-1A in it's current condition. We tried marketing it a
couple of times. People may have not like how it was done but it was our project
that we marketed. But the main value for me is to get that 28,000 square foot
expansion of the main library and if it ends up being that how we get that support
is doing it in a more costly way or in that way that at least now seems that way
that's okay with me. That Vacant lot to me, no better use could be made of it than
our main library being there, our last urban real parcel and we talk about
economics and the viability of downtown what better destination point for this
town. When I'm at community events and people use the library for behavior
control of their children consistently say "if you don't behave your not going to
the library" and it works consistently that's a message. So I just want to see us
use that.
Lehman/Well those are decisions we made after we see what we're.
Kubby/But I think that voting on this tonight is a wonderful commitment to library
services for now and for the future. I'm sorry it's taking us so long to get here,
I'm very glad we're here and I think it helps us move forward.
O'Donnell/Well and it's also making a commitment that we are ready to put somewhere
between 16 and 17 million dollars directly on the shoulders on the taxpayers.
Lehman/On the voters.
O'Donnell/On the voters, because they'll ultimately decide this.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 83
Lehman/Right.
O'Donnell/That we just tried a local option sales tax and a tax is a tax and it was
defeated and it appears like there's people will support this library as long as a
certain part of our community pays for it and I that's I supported the sales tax but
it used it from surrounding communities could help us afford this thing.
Vanderhoef/Well I too want to keep the library downtown. I do want to keep it viable, I
do want to keep the library find expansion space. I would look at the 8,000 square
feet on the second floor. When I look at a cost of $11.5 and those are old figures
to go up with the upper floor I think that's too much. I don't see that we have the
capitol to do that project over some other capitol projects that are on our pending
list. And on our program list for the next three years that our capitol budget we
have revised downwards, we were very aggressive with a plan a year ago and
when it came time to do our budget we chose to reduce our capitol plan because
we felt it was going to increase the taxes too much. If we were to put out a bond
issue for another 17 million or in that vicinity I think our tax payers will be
coming back to us and saying all right how are you going to decrease my tax bill
so then I think I would have to be looking at my capitol budget in removing some
of those projects, moving them out for extended period of time. Because council
worked very hard on the capitol budget and the plan and sequencing things and
looking at things in the future for all of the services that we provide in this city.
And library services are very important, there's just no doubt about it, library
services are very important. I was very disappointed last night when no one was
even to explore talking with Kirkwood to see what was possible. I even heard a
comment something like about the disaster or something like that of management
of it and I thought how can we say that, I trust my library director to be able to
work with someone else and to come up with a plan. So I can't support this at this
point, at this level of capitol infusion.
Thornberry/These numbers, 11, 15, 16, 17 have been batted around, these are millions of
dollars, 15, 16, 17 million dollars for a library that I still look at the current and
call it new. I remember the old library which is still a pretty nice building. And
I'm looking at the current library and saying we want to replace that in 20 years.
There are a lot of houses in Iowa City that are over 20 years old and you don't just
throw them away and rebuild because they're old, our family has outgrown it.
You remodel and you expand the current facility, the current house, the current
facility, and this is how we've got to look at it. All of us are library supporters, I
mean we all appreciate the good job that Susan Craig has been doing in that
library, she's doing a fantastic job. It's a good library, it's won awards and it
deserves it. But we need to expand the current facility to it's maximum potential
before we think about building another one and when we do think about building
another one once it's already been maximized I think it should be another part of
town. We're growing to the east and we're growing to the south, we're growing
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 84
everywhere but. The southeast part of town needs a branch out there, I'm not
saying build a branch fight now, I'm saying let's expand the current facility to it's
maximum potential. Once we've outgrown that or can no longer operate in that
facility which I don't know if it will ever happen I think Susan's better than that. I
think she's going to find a way to do what she can with what she's got. But 15,
16, 17 million dollars fight now from the voters, from the taxpayers of Iowa City
for another library at this time I think is irresponsible so I will be voting no on
putting a new library and this is what we're voting on, we're voting on building a
new library on the vacant lot on the parking lot next to the current library fight
across the street from the old library. And I just can't support that at this time
without the maximized expansion.
Lehman/I think we're voting on more than just.
Norton/Oh no we're not.
Thornberry/I don't think we are. I would like to see the possibilities of the expansion of
the current facility, now if that can't wrap, it can be done, it can be done and I
would like to see that. Once that has been maximized I would consider building
another library.
Lehman/Isn't that one of the things we're asking for we're going to get?
Thomberry/No because it wouldn't be on 64-1A because I don't want to build a library
right across from the current library.
Norton/We're talking about getting.
Thornberry/And then having, excuse me, and then having the library that is now then
we're trying to market a three million dollar building that was built for a library,
as a library, with all the post's inside and everything else. I would much rather if
we're going to market a piece of property market a vacant lot which is the lot that
is currently a parking lot 64-1A fight across from the current library. I'd much
rather market that, expand the current library to it's maximum potential. Once we
can't do any more and we still need more room then we build the branch on the
east side of town, I think that's, you know the way to go, that's the way I see it.
Champion/(can't hear).
Norton/Could you clarify for me what we're voting on Ernie I thought it was to see both
those plans?
Lehman/I think that is.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 85
Norton/To see the plans for a free standing and to see plans for substantial expansion on
the present site.
Thornberry/I don't think $60,000 needs to be spent on a lot on a library that I have no
plans of voting for on.
Norton/Oh I see okay well then.
Thornberry/Do you see what I mean?
Norton/Yea.
Thomberry/Why spend $60,000 on.
Norton/Yea, you won't (can't hear) either. You won't see the comparison okay.
Lehman/Well it's important to me to see the comparison so, any other discussion.
Kubby/I just want to, I want to make one really quick comment about some of the I see
Vanderhoef's budget concerns. In that when we look at when we looked at both
our operating budget for the general fund and our capitol improvements program
we it was brought to our attention that the potential of the sales tax vote not going
the way it would allow money to come in and that we needed to create a
contingency plan to leave room in both our operating budget and in our CIP for
the library and we chose not to do that and so the position we're in is one that was
a conscious decision because we were all quite aware of that situation.
Vanderhoef/Well Karen I think your putting words in my mouth on that because I did
consider that and as a councilor when I'm looking at the capitol plan I'm looking
at the balance for all the services and needs of this city. And I looked at that and I
knew there was this possibility that the sales tax wouldn't pass and I still went
forward with the capitol plan because I felt those things, many of them have
waited and are past due in being done and that it's important to do those. I can
find perhaps 7 million something like that to do this 8,000 square feet and bump
out and some of the maybe even remodeling within the building ifthere's a
different way to recon~gure that would be more serviceable within the two floors.
There are some other things I can look at but I certainly can't look at it in the full
blown picture.
Kubby/Right.
Vanderhoef/So I did take that into consideration.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 86
Kubby/And maybe you did but then the argument becomes kind of circular because now
you know we're saying because of that decision you made, it was a conscious one
and I'm not saying that that's bad or good I'm just saying we you know we talked
about those issues and as a majority made the decision to go with the current CIP.
That that closes, if you don't want to go beyond our self-imposed rules about
bonding then we have closed the door on any substantial expansion of the main
library that going having that spot that 8,000 square feet that will functionally be
about 7,000 square feet will not functionally take care of a portion, it will take
care of a quarter of the known needs of the current needs for library space so
that's just not very, it's not it's like not worth doing, in terms of meeting the
needs.
Vanderhoef/But the things that need to be done that go in with that to put in the new
heating and ventilating and.
Norton/We'll make choices along those.
Vanderhoef/And those kinds of things and those are important and those I support.
O'Donnell/This is really a decision in that and I don't know we're, we beating a dead
horse here.
Champion/Right.
O'Donnell/But you know we've got.
Kubby/(can't hear) people about.
O'Donnell/We have water rates as high as they've ever been, we've got sewer rates as
high as they've ever been, we have storm water management coming up and we
don't know how high that's going to be. I just wonder if what point in time we
just decide Iowa City's a very very expensive place to live in and take a look at it
realistically and this storm water management coming up has got me concerned
because we really don't know what we're talking about here and it could be a
substantial one.
Norton/Well that's got.
O'Donnell/And.
Kubby/And I agree with everything you've just said Mike and that' s why I couldn't
agree to our last operating budget that had the highest percent increase for
property taxes over the last 12 years so.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#26 Page 87
O'Donnell/Well and the highest water rates and sewer rates and (can't hear).
Norton/That's because they've been deferred Mike, we're facing serious lacks on the part
of the previous (can't hear).
O'Donnell/(can't hear).
Norton/Let' s go Ernie.
Lehman/Roll call. Motion passes 4-3, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef and Thornberry voting no.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#27 Page 88
ITEM NO. 27 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING TCI CABLEVISION'S
RATE FOR BASIC CABLE SERVICE AND OPERATOR SELECTED
CHARGES FOR EQUIPMENT INSTALLATIONS, RENTAL AND
MAINTENANCE; APPROVING A "MAXIMUM PERMITTED RATE"
FOR BASIC CABLE SERVICE; APPROVING NETWORK UPGRADE
ADD-ON CHARGE, AND DIRECTING TCI CABLEVISION TO REFILE
FCC FOR 1235.
Thornberry/Move adoption of resolution.
Lehman/Moved by Thornberry.
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion.
Kubby/Dale I'm kind of confused, some of the, at least how I read some of the
information in our packet said that we thought they used inappropriate numbers in
the formula but then we're okaying the rate so you need to help me out here.
Dale Helling/OK, the maximum, the maximum permitted rate is just that it's the
maximum they can charge. We disagree on what that rate is but the rate they're
proposing is within even our figures so we're arguing whether all their figures are
appropriate or not but nonetheless what they're proposing is within the parameters
of what we think is reasonable or.
Kubby/We've got these rules of the game and we're saying that they're still within the
rules of the game but where they're really come down we disagree with.
Helling/Right and that some of that goes all the way back to 199?
(End of 99-88 Side 1)
Helling/Went to the FCC we won, they appealed, we won, they appealed, we won, they
appealed again the FCC so.
Kubby/We're an appealing company.
Helling/So this is several years of compilation several years of disagreement.
Kubby/All right. Thank you.
Lehman/Roll call.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#30 Page 89
ITEM NO. 30. CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION
Champion/Could I just start because I just want to ask a question that's relative to the
library, relative to the library. When we pass the library levy, what is that money
used for Susan, can you answer that question for me? I've asked a couple people
and I'm totally confused even though I talked to you.
Craig/The library levy just comes into the city's into the library's operating budget and
so the budget that's approved for the library you we have some income from fines
and fees, we have the Johnson County contract, we have the library levy and
what's left is paid from out of the $8.10 levy.
Lehman/General fund.
Champion/OK. Thank you.
Craig/Good I did that fight.
Lehman/OK.
Champion/Very good.
Craig/And when the levy was passed during the campaign it was stated that at least half
of it would be spent on new staff so we could reopen some hours that we had had
to close because of increased use and we did higher five staff people the year the
levy passed and they're still there working so.
Champion/And that's a percentage levy so it does go up with inflation.
Craig/Right, 27 cents per thousand dollars of assessed valuation.
Champion/Right, right, thank you for verifying that for me. The other thing I wanted to
ask Steve is expectation. We were talking about all these operating expenses that
we're all scared to death of. Because houses are being reevaluated now,
commercial buildings are being evaluated, don't you expect kind of a little healthy
increase in our tax money sector?
Atkins/No I don't.
Lehman/Well that rollback.
Kubby/The rollback, the rollback.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#30 Page 90
Champion/But the rollback is actually going up isn't it?
Norton/No it's going down 5 percent.
Atkins/This time it went up a little bit. Remember the rollback used to be a factor of 80,
it is now 56.
Norton/And going doxvn to 55 1 hear.
Atkins/Yea I see we expect a little slippage this year. Connie the purpose of reevaluation
is in my judgment more of an equity thing.
Champion/Right.
Atkins/Fairness to make sure that your property is properly valued. Keep in mind every
two years there's a little adjustment made so those values are generally up to date.
Champion/Thet're pretty current you mean.
Atkins/If I see a one percent two percent top swing increase I would be very very
surprised.
Champion/OK, okay I've been thinking about that. So because if a house sells in an area
people get some idea about what things are worth and things are adjusted
automatically?
Atkins/They're not adjusted automatically, every two years if you look at our budget, the
reason we do the three years is that every other year there will be a revaluing of.
The comprehensive one they're going fight now, catch up make sure everything,
it's a fairness question. That's what I would perceive it today.
Kubby/I have a lot of these are going on and I just want to outline a few of them that are
happening between now and the next council meeting. The first and foremost the
Iowa Women' s Foundation will be celebrating their 5th anniversary, just wanted
to congratulate them on that. They provide grants for folks around Iowa for
programs that benefit women and girls and it's just a really wonderful program
(can't hear). They will be part of the focus of the Business PM for the Chamber
of Commerce this Thursday at Studiolo from 4-6 PM, encourage people to come.
September 1 st Planned Parenthood is having a reception they were moved out of
the Harmon Building as that was demolished for the Iowa Avenue Multipurpose
Parking structure and are now at 850 Orchard and invite you to come. On Labor
Day there' s always lots of things going on on Labor Day but it's a time for
organized labor to really gather together and celebrate who they are and what they
do and all the work that they do for the community. There will be a picnic
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#30 Page 91
starting at 1:00 at shelter 11, it's kind of a potluck but the main dish and drink are
provided. And there are usually tickets for kids to ride the rides at City Park.
And the last one I want to mention is something that the EPA, the Environmental
Protection Agency is hosting on Wednesday, September 8 from 4-7 in the Iowa
City Public Library and basically what it is is trying to outline to the community
and get some feedback and get information out about the Iowa City former
manufactured gas plant which is the Iowa Illinois Manor apartments at 505
Burlington Street where there's been some contamination and some further
studies can be done to make sure that there aren't environmental problems
internally and externally of the building. So I encourage tenants and other people
who are interested in this issue to go to that. There will be a lot of staff people
there to ask questions about so again that's Wednesday, September 8 from 4-7 at
the public library. And actually I forgot one thing, it's a really great poster but
your not going to be able to see it so I won't even hold it up. But there's this
action called Critical Mass and it's happening this Friday, August 27 at 4:59 PM
so 5:00 or so you meet at the ped mall and it's kind of to celebrate non car
transportation. So whether you use a pogo stick, roller blade, bicycle, skateboards
come and give them appropriately and within the law and come join the critical
mass.
Norton/But say you can't get there with a skateboard can you?
Lehman/You can't use skateboard.
Kubby/Not in the ped mall, and you don't need to bark.
O'Donnell/I had an opportunity to meet our new school superintendent and somebody
help me out it's Lane.
Norton/Plugge.
Atkins/Plugge.
O'Donnell/Lane Plugge and he really is a interesting person and I think his commitment
to Iowa City is very very strong and I want to commend the school board for
hiring this man, very nice. I attended a City High tennis court light meeting with
Dean and they got into safety in the parking lot and I certainly hope the school
board and the residents can get together and get this worked out because I really
believe one thing we can't compromise is safety in the parking for the young
students.
Norton/There's nothing, not much we can do about that.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#30 Page 92
O'Donnell/There's nothing we can do about it but I just attended and it was I think the
school agreed to now that the communication's open so I'm sure something will
get worked out. That's all I have.
Thomberry/I have nothing this evening sir.
Vanderhoef/Just a couple things. Where are we now with the conversation with the
Senior Center and the plans over there? Has there been any meetings?
Lehman/Well.
Norton/You mean on the building?
Vanderhoef/Yes, building use.
Norton/Oh the building use, 28E you mean?
Atkins/Oh that's (can't hear).
Norton/That meeting is set for September 1st at the moment but I got a call from Donna
the other day. We're suppose to be exchanging drafts of the 28E but it turns out
that Pat White can't be there on the 1st so it's going to be modified Connie I
wanted to tell you.
Champion/I thought they were moving forward (can't hear).
Norton/But that is where we are trying to do, they're trying to develop a redraft of the
28E and so are we. But this doesn't deal with all the issues that are in that Senior
Center report by any means. Is that what your talking about the thing that was in
our minutes today or from Terry Miller? All the issues about.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Norton/Those don't enter into it exclusively, that's another whole ball of wax in other
words, a part of that. But that's a very interesting report, that space report, yea.
Champion/(can't hear).
Norton/It will affect the 28E but it's not explicitly taken it (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/And when do we expect to have any more conversation? Will that happen
while your working on the 28E or I'm not real clear how.
Champion/You can hardly get a sentence correct (can't hear). This is not an easy task.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#30 Page 93
Norton/But it will be done, it'll be in September the question the date, if we don't finish
a new 28E we'll try to get together on that during September, whether that will
answer all the questions about priority's for space in the Center is not clear. And
who does it whether it's up strictly to the Commission, the status of the Senior
Dining.
Vanderhoef/OK.
Norton/But it will answer some of those questions but not all of them I'm sure.
Vanderhoef/OK. Then I want to welcome the students back to Iowa City, it's been very
pleasant to feel the energy and the vibrancy downtown. And I wanted to commend
the University and the Stepping Up project for their week of activities that they
have planned for the students. It's a real aggressive plan and I think it's definitely
the right direction and thank you very much for that, we appreciate.
Lehman/Dance Friday night.
Vanderhoef/Friday night.
Lehman/Closing street.
Vanderhoef/Downtown street festival.
Lehman/Right.
Vanderhoef/August 27.
Lehman/Think of that.
Vanderhoef/Yes, and the following night Friday night there are night games all of these
are in their effort to show students things that can happen in the city and you don't
have to be involved with alcohol to have fun (can't hear) so I commend them on
that. That's all I have thanks.
Norton/Given the hour I'll restrain myself.
Lehman/I have one thing, I promised Heather Shank I would mention this. And every
each year there is a Human Rights breakfast and there are awards given, they are
given for human rights awards for outstanding human rights contribution by an
area business, an individual, and a service organization, and a individual large in
the community. And they are accepting nominations through September 10 and
Heather Shank would be the person to get in contact with, the City of Iowa City,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.
#30 Page 94
356-5022. This is a really really remarkable breakfast folks, it's a tremendous
event and certainly anyone that you feel would be qualified to receive one of those
awards would certainly appreciate being nominated so.
Vanderhoef/And those are awards from both individuals and for groups or businesses or
organizations.
Lehman/Well one is a business, one is an individual services, and one individual at large.
City manager information.
Atkins/(can't hear).
Kubby/Move to adjoum.
Lehman/Moved by Kubby.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Seconded by O'Donnell. All in favor. All ayes. 11:30 PM Meeting adjourned.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of August 24, 1999.