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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-10-11 TranscriptionOctober 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 1 October 11, 1999 Council Work Sessions 6:30 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, Kubby, Norton, O'Donnell, Thornberry, Vanderhoef. Staff: Atkins, Dilkes, Karr, Franklin, Schoon, Fosse. Tapes: 99-93 side 2, and 99-98 side 1. Review AEenda Items 99-93 side 2 No discussion Review Agenda Items 99-93 side 2 Lehman/Hey, if you think we are going to do the Iowa Avenue Streetscape before we do agenda items you are wrong. Clark/Woops. Sorry. Lehman/Wait a minute, we may have just done them. /Move to be adjoumed. Lehman/Review agenda items. Does anybody have anything on the agenda items? / No. Norton/Yeah, let's see. Thomberry/Oh, here we go... Champion/I think I actually forgot my computer. Thornberry/I think you can use mine. Champion/I hope so. (All talking) Lehman/Well, I have just one item that I will bring up. If you remember the last packet we had, the employment agreements for Marian and for Eleanor I believe- just a couple of words changed between the first copy that you saw and this one. The first one says that the council will reevaluate and consider it whatever- and it said give raises. This one says that we will reevaluate and make compensation as we see fit. So, but minor- don't think of it as major changes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2 Norton/I noticed there were personal pronouns in there right? Those agreements were not written- they were written with "shes" in them fight? On purpose? Lehman/Because we were dealing with females at the time. (All talking) Norton/I thought it personal... Karr/I guess I would be wondering what Mr. Norton is saying .... we shouldn't be ~'shes"? Norton/It might be possible for them to be ambisextrous. I mean the wording. Kubby/Ambisextrous? /Have what? (All talking) Norton/Nevermind. I used the word ambisextrous. Lehman/That' s okay because nobody else knows what it means. Any other agenda items? Kubby/Like code. Vanderhoef/Is everybody clear on number 137 On the consortium? Norton/On the mandate there? Vanderhoef/No it isn't a non-funded... Norton/You've got to pay for some of the stuff I see. Vanderhoef/No, you don't pay for anything- only if there is a problem with the funds in their distribution. They are all federal funds that are coming in and we.. Norton/What if they are not enough? Vanderhoef/Well, we have to make them enough. This is it guys... Norton/Oh, I see. Vanderhoef/So it is a matter of being sure how they are expended according to the law. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 3 /Great Vanderhoef/Okay, and I will be leaving you until which time as you're finished.. and we will decide on... Norton/The only other ... I wondered when we came to this setting of the public hearing, I guess we wouldn't have to do it tomorrow night, but we need to be sure that we are going to get enough detail there on that water project, fight? We are going to get a good rundown on the components on that? /What kind of detail are we looking for? Norton/Well, you know. It's a humongous project right? The bigger picture. And I just hope that somebody is ready to lay that out a little at the time of the public hearing. Lehman/Oh, when we have the heating. Not tomorrow night. Norton/Certainly not tomorrow night. Atkins/One of the things that we want to do on the water project- and I'm going to do this in memo form and we might want to do it in the show and tell- is that we'd like to add in the emergency generator which wasn't an original part of it, so there' s absolute understanding between what' s the water plant and what's this. And I will break all of that out for you. It's just a lot easier to bid it as a package. There' s some of the side agreements which would satisfy the water works park component also bid in- we would like to bid in with that also. We will split that out for you and show you that. Kubby/If you could have pictures of all of that. Maybe some overheads of the current cost estimates and time frames. That would be a good update. /We'll take care of that. Iowa Avenue Streetscape Fosse/ Tomorrow night is a public hearing on the easement acquisition for the Iowa Avenue Project and then following that is a resolution declaring your intent to proceed with the project. Essentially it is a "go" or "no go" on the design and phase of the project. So what we want to do tonight is, Brian Clark is here along with Chris Della Vedova and Nicki Christensen, to briefly give you an overview of the information that you already have in your packet, review cost estimates with you, and then answer your questions. And then we want to wrap things up by getting some direction from you on what you want for tomorrow night- any This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4 sort of presentation or simply be there to answer questions. So with that I will turn it over to Brian and we will get started. Clark/ Good evening. I trust that you have all received your information over the weekend and have had a chance to review it. My job here tonight is to answer any questions that you might have about the project. Can I just move this mic here around front? The master plan was approved in February of '98, since that time, about May of '99, our firm began design development on the project. We've gone through a couple of public input meetings with citizens, council members, city staff and university officals on taking that master plan through design development, refining concepts, refining light fixtures, fumishings, benches and the design actually through that process. In the packet of information that we gave you we discussed items from the parking issue to the cost estimate to construction phasing- all of the items associated with design development. What I want to do quickly is go through briefly the three blocks then answer any questions that you might have at this time. On the first drawing, this is the 100 block, here is Clinton Street, north is up, this is existing conditions here, and here is the proposed plan for the 100 block. We are proposing a loading zone located in this area here, with angled parking throughout the block, two way traffic down the block- you can park at that angle going west or park at that angle going east. There are four intersections- excuse me- three intersections that we are doing in special pavement. I say special pavement meaning rather than concrete we are doing some special treatments at those intersections. One of the intersections is the Clinton Street intersection and we are calling it a crosswalk texture and brick patterning, here, to help pedestrians find their way across the street- not that we can control college students as well as we would like but this will help organize that. Lehman/One question for you- on those intersections you show those strips of concrete between the brick and, yeah, how durable is that? Clark/Um.. if properly detailed durable for 50 years. If properly detailed. Lehman/Are those that reinforced concrete? Clark/Yes. Lehman/Okay. Champion/That really is very attractive. Lehman/Oh it's beautiful. Clark/We derived the concept for this paving pattern- we went through various options This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 5 as city staff will attest- and we arrived at kind of taking this patch work, this woven pattern, into here with the abstraction of the Pentacrest kind of at that center and repeating that down the corridor. Norton/The higher criticism there, uhm, one thing that is an all way walk. You know what I mean, people walk diagonally there. They are walking at all times fight, there is an all way walk. So they don't necessarily follow those vertical paths as indicated, you don't mind them walking in the middle do you? Clark/No. They are going to walk everywhere actually. Yes they are. Lehman/I am not so sure they haven't changed that light though. I think that unless somebody pushes the button I don't think that it is an all way walk anymore. Thornberry/Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. (All talking) Lehman/I think that you have to push the button to make it an all way. I don't know that but I think that is fight because I drive through there every once in a while. Norton/I thought they stopped you from all directions... O'Donnell/I think they do unless somebody pushes the button. Thornberry/I noticed that there is a little loop, right here, that goes out away from the walk. Is that right or does it end there? Clark/I think it may end there. Thornberry/It doesn't come out. /...curves so it won't slide. That little point. Thornberry/And on the other intersections there are also the overlap of the walkways. Clark/Yes, those will be continued through...yes, they do. That is correct. Norton/While you are looking at that comer could you comment on the transformer..? I understand it is to be moved out of the middle? Clark/Yes. Norton/Is it going to, new, look the same? I guess there is nothing such as an elegant transformer, I take it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 6 Clark/Um...there is but I think that the cost incurred would be substantial. Right now the plan is to move it to the north side of the street, Chris chime in if I am incorrect, but somewhere in this location and then for over here that location for the other... Norton/Oh I see... the little black square was... Clark/The master plan originally had them on the south side and in our design development we have got much more real estate to work with on the noah side- that will be a kiosk location. Thornberry/What's this? Transformer? There is an arrow that goes right... Norton/See, I thought that because that looks like- that I thought that was a transformer too. But somewhere it said it was going to be on that side, but .... Somebody has got to come along with an improved design for transformers... Clark/Well, one option we talked about with MidAmerican was changing paint color. Norton/Yeah, that bright green there.. Clark/And, if we do go to a tan or a gray the city would then be responsible for painting it. If we stay with the MidAmerican green then they'll take care of it and they'll paint it. So, that's a choice. Lehman/Even if we provided the paint? Clark/I'm sorry. That's what they... Thornberry/I'll volunteer to paint it once a year. Champion/I'll help out. Thornberry/This area right here for the semis, is that enough for one or two semis? Clark/That would be enough for one semi. Eighteen-wheel semi. Kubby/What is the current loading zone dimension? Is it the same? Clark/The current loading zone is the entire block. Champion/The whole fight hand side of the block. Clark/The whole south side of that block. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 7 O'Donnell / Are all of these trees Honey Locust? Lehman/That is what it says... O'Donnell/That's what it says? Every one of them? Clark/Yes. O'Donnell/Do you think that is wise to have all one... Clark/We were asked that question in public input and I guess the answer is yes. O'Donnell/So they aren't all going to die together? Clark/We looked at doing every other one and the species that we think are urban tolerant we didn't like the look of that. And, we think that the Locust was an improved species and will do well in that corridor. O'Donnell/What is the life span of the Honey Locust? Do we know? Clark/I know of some 70 year-old Honey Locusts. Champion/7 year-old? Clark/70. In this urban condition they are not going to be growing in a forest so the life span may be 40 to 50. But, with what we are doing to the root zone we think that we will have an improved life span over what street trees have had in previous settings. So we feel confident. O'Donnell/And how tall is that tree? Clark/It will get 50 feet tall at full maturity. Champion/I want to talk a little bit about the issue of parking because you have it well marked, but there is going to be some parking in that part of Iowa Avenue but you don't have it nicely drawn for me. Clark/Well, I will try to better show that. These stalls here are all 24-hour angle parking stalls. There is no loading in that area. Here are, here is the loading zone for that block, and after 5 o'clock those would change to 3 parallel parking stalls. Champion/What about the problem about only one spot for loading and unloading This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 8 because I know that in front of my store there are trucks there a great part of the day. And, they use that whole block of Dubuque Street- what are the plans for the inadequate loading zones? Clark/We are going to ask the merchants, I think, to talk to each other and try to coordinate deliveries as best we can... Champion/It doesn't work out. Clark/If that doesn't work out... see, we ran into the issue of the merchants wanting loading of the entire zone, but they also want parking close to their storefront. We have to arrive at a compromise of loading and fulltime parking and this through public input. The loading was initially down at the east end of the block here- and based on our discussions with business owners- we arrived at the westerly loading zone location with as many fulltime spots as we can get in front of the storefront. Champion/And do you know offhand how many parking places that is? Clark/Um .... you guys can probably tell me...we've got 38 in the 100 block, and I would guess there is 12... Lehman/Before we go any further in the loading zone- you can drive through downtown Iowa City any weekday you want and you will find the loading zones currently filled with automobiles that are not supposed to be there, and the trucks are double parked constantly. I don't care whether it is Dubuque Street, Clinton Street, Washington .... I mean, as a practical matter- the trucks double park to unload. And I don't think that Iowa Avenue is going to be any different than any other street. If you made that loading zone the entire length of the block you would still have cars parked in that thing and we'd give them five dollar tickets and they'd scream and hollar but they'd still be there and the trucks would have to park in the street. Thornberry/Do you think that the trucks- are we setting ourselves up from them to unload in the center of the street here? Lehman/They'll do that anyway. They do that all over town. Norton/Behind the parked cars. Thornberry/They'll be in the center of the street? Lehman/No, they'll pull right behind the parked cars. I don't think that they will park in the center of that street. It is wide enough for them... they will stop the one lane of traffic. They do that all of the time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 9 (All talking) Norton/You are often pinched on Clinton Street. You are pinched in behind the trucks. Lehman/So that is not a situation that we are not accustomed to. Clark/I believe that we can get two beer trucks- pardon the analogy- that length. Two beer trucks can fit in that loading zone and/or one semi. Kubby/So, for the parking stall markings- I am concerned about- are we going to mess up all of the beauty of the colored concrete with paint to mark stalls? Clark/Are we? Kubby/Well, I guess I am asking. Clark/Our intent is not to stripe. Our painting pattern is based on that nine foot parking stall width.. Kubby/So there would be a natural stall with the coloration. (All talking) Clark/Yes. We are having a double soldier course wide stripe there to delineate, to help delineate that parking stall. So we will not have paint. The only issue we have not resolved yet is the center line painting. And, perhaps... Kubby/There will just be a line of trucks in the center. (All talking) Clark/The stalls are handled. Kubby/Good. I am glad. Thornberry/Is this area fight over the other one- this one fight here- is that enough for a beer truck to park beside? Lehman/That is an alley opening. Thomberry/I know that. There is no parking fight here so could a beer truck pull up there and unload? Lehman/You can't park there, you would block the alley. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 10 Clark/They could. Their beer truck would stick out over the ends of the islands and also it is not legal but, yeah they could. Lehman/I don't think that happens even now. They just do not allow any parking across that alley. Clark/Any more questions on the 100 block? Norton/Connie, we asked about coordinating deliveries or controlling hours or anything like that, did you say that doesn't work or it is possible? Champion/That is impossible, because those trucks have routes and their routes are different and they can't run a route for one business. Lehman/Or they come in from Chicago... Champion/They come in from Chicago or Des Moines. They are not .... Norton/But a lot of cities have considerable control of when you can come in to unload. Champion/I think that when you are in the city, a real city.. Norton/Los Angeles, for example. Champion/It is very different because if there is a Budweiser beer truck coming in it is probably going to have a whole truck load to deliver on one street. And then they can time their deliveries, but I think Iowa City is a little different, they probably aren't going to leave Davenport at a specific time to deliver between 10 and 11. That is just not going to happen. Norton/I was thinking that when we were putting in storm sewers we should have put in pipes for the beer to be piped in. Lehman/That would take a large pipe. Clark/That gives the Beer Creek Storm Sewer Project all new meaning. Champion/My delivery people have keys to my store because they want to deliver to our town and be out of there long before we open. So, I mean, you could do that too. Thornberry/Mine too. Mine do that too, they deliver in the middle of the night. Champion/Yeah. Or seven in the morning, long before I am even out of bed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 11 Norton/Well there are some accommodating- I used to talk to the University Physical Plant because they all went to work at eight o'clock so between eight and eight thirty when everybody was on the street trying to get to class, here are the University trucks. Why can't you do something between eight and eight thirty and start after eight thirty? There were some timing questions there. It would be helpful if you could get them to do it. Champion/I think that it is just difficult to mandate that. It is nice but I just don't think that the city is big enough to... /It is a long ways away. Clark/ On the 200 block, this is the intersection of Dubuque Street and Iowa Avenue here, and again that same pattem carded from Clinton to Dubuque. The second block is entirely concrete with the only special paving, brick paving, occurring at the intersection. We have talked with the University staff and the University's design team about the transition to the new Biology and feel that we have addressed those construction phasing concerns with the University. We are showing a designated loading zone in this area, similar to the one on the 100 block. And then full time angled parking, striped, all the way down toward the east. Champion/Does anybody remember how many parking places we added to Clinton Street? /17 Norton/18 or 19, 15 to 19 or somewhere in there. Clark/Any questions on the 200 block? Norton/That pattern in the intersection- a lot of people are going to ask what that is all about. I guess...it is like weather dance. Clark/ This is the 300 block which will be part of, really the phase one of construction. Parking ramp is located in this area here. And the parking ramp took out about ten to eleven parking stalls with the ingress and egress of those entrances here, but more than made up for those obviously in the ramp. This intersection receives that special paving here, and we are locating a kiosk at this intersection. We had located it here to the north but because of visitors coming out of the ramp looking for a place to go, we wanted them to see the kiosk immediately. And that is why we located in that location. Lehman/What is the purpose of the island in the center between the entrance and the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 12 exits sticking in the street that far. I know that it is for continuity but I don't see that it really serves any purpose. Clark/It really is to protect traffic as it exits and enters the facility. Norton/It is part of the queue. In other words, I guess I worry a lot and have ever since day one about people eastbound on Iowa Avenue making that left into the entrance. This turning movement is going to... Thornberry/That is west. Norton/Pardon me, westbound. It is going to be really interesting whether that queue backs them up and jams that traffic lane. There is only one travel lane there, I don't know what to do about it, and they say that there is plenty of room inside... Lehman/What is the width between the parking stalls and the street, between one side and the other? Clark/Twenty five feet. Lehman/Twenty five feet. Clark/Two lanes. Two traffic lanes. Thornberry/That will stick out an awful long ways. Norton/We just hope that they go far enough in, that is what we have been told, is that there is quite a bit of queue inside the building. Champion/There is no perfect answer to that. The Dubuque Street ramp is terrible. It backs up and... Thornberry/I think that those things that stick out there like on Linn Street, I think that they are out there way too far. They look terrible... Lehman/Well, we reduced the one in front of the Senior Center when that was made permanent.. Thornberry/Well, even that intersection Ernie.. Lehman/But the one down from it is way too far, I don't think that the permanent ones are going to be out that far. I don't suppose it were possible, if that outer edge were a little shorter.. Thornberry/They are going to be out as far as the ones on Linn Street are now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 13 Lehman/Boy I tell you, it would be really neat to have a turn lane. Norton/Yeah, that's why we need that part pulled back, in other words, if there were just a little turn lane there you mean, yeah. That would be very helpful. (All talking) Norton/... if you could move it back about six feet you could almost have one. Franklin/You would be going into oncoming traffic, you don't want to put your turn lane at the top of that because you are going to be going westbound into an eastbound lane. Norton/Well, they would have to gyrate to the south a little bit too you know. It would be tough. Kubby/There are so many people who bike on Iowa Avenue, I think that creates a bigger safety hazard that what you are trying to prevent. Thomberry/The only way you could do that is to not have those sidewalks as deep, as wide as they are. Narrow that back some and then you could bring those cars in further here. Norton/Move the whole structure.. Kubby/Except that is part of the whole, one of the reasons, to do Iowa Avenue is to create that pedestrian streetscape. Norton/How does that line up with the others? Can you hold that up there? Clark/It lines up. All of these lines carry through. Norton/We are going find out fight? Champion/Well there are two entrances there. Lehman/Well, an entrance and an exit. Norton/And how far into the ramp does it go? Who knows, does Joe or somebody else? Quite a ways in there before you come to a stop? O'Donnell/How wide is that sidewalk? Clark/Are those four foot modules Chris? About eighteen feet. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 14 Norton/That is wide. O'Donnell/Well we could knock off four feet... Lehman/The entrance next to the parking ramp is going to be busy, very limited times of the day and night. Franklin/That does provide you some stacking space for people entering the ramp. You can have at least four cars that are still in Iowa Avenue, have turned in, if you have that protection of the sidewalk being out as far as it is shown. Norton/Before you even enter the building. Franklin/Before you even enter the building. And then you also have the space in the building. So I think if you took that out you would make worse what you are trying to fix. Clark/And the same goes for exiting the ramp. There are three lanes of stacking- twelve cars. Franklin/Right. Thornberry/I think that .... goes into the street too far on the south side. Champion/I can't visualize how much distance is there. Thornberry/Jiminy Christmas that is a long ways. That is longer than a Cadillac. Norton/That is what she is saying. That is give stacking room there. (All talking) Thornberry/I am just thinking that the end of this parking place is the biggest car you are ever going to, they will never be out this far- the end of a car. The big old Cadillacs do not come out that far. Norton/I see that they would have trouble getting the front end up.. Thomberry/But if we knock this back maybe- if there is a small car there you can come around like this easier- and have that maybe as a- in the parking ramps don't they have places for compact cars? Why can't they have a compact thing here? Okay- so they don't use it- the car is still not going to come out this far. I just think that these things are out way too far and when they build it take a look at Linn Street and see. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 15 Clark/Chris can maybe shed some light on this. Chris/I guess the only thing that I can say to that fight now is these are designed per your city codes. This is a parallel or an angle stall. That is the depth that we are supposed to be having. Thornberry/Oh, I understand that but I don't think that the bumpers need to be out that far. Kubby/But they won't be, if the cars aren't that long they will be pulled all of the way up. Thornberry/No, no I meant those things are going to be permanent. Kubby/Oh, you mean the structures- you don't mean the bumpers of the cars. Clark/Those are intended to protect those end automobiles... Champion/How much room is there because, I am sorry, I am just not very good at visualizing this. How big is a car compared to that? Lehman/How deep is it? Champion/No, I have to show you. Clark/I think that Karen mentioned you will get two car lengths- a car here and a car here using... Champion/If I am a car driving down here, how big am I? Kubby/You will get arrested. (All talking) Champion/Okay I am going thi~ way. How big am 1.9 I mean this doesn't look... Kubby/At the narrowest place, what's that? Lehman/Twenty-five feet. Clark/Twelve and a half feet... Champion/Is there enough room for two cars and a bicycle on both sides? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 16 Clark/No. Well, bikes yes... Lehman/Two semis and a bicycle.. Champion/How wide is my car? Clark/About six and a half- seven feet wide. Champion/And that is how wide now? All/Twelve and a half. Clark/Standard... Fosse/Travel lane on this will be about the same as Friendship street. Kubby/So where people felt uncomfortable on Linn street at the comer of Washington and where the curb came out so far.. how wide was that lane? Clark/I don't know. Kubby/Was it less than that twelve and a half because maybe that really is the question- that it won't be a replica of that thing we all had a problem with. Clark/I've got a fear if we narrow this, a lot of fears if we shorten that, and that is traffic driving eastbound will need some guidance to get from here to there and that helps provide that traffic lane edge.. (All talking) Thronberry/I want them all brought back- not just one. If you are driving down Linn Street, and you are meeting a car there by the Library right at that intersection, that is tight. Is that going to be the width? Kubby/No. Fosse/This will be wider. Kubby/Do we know how much? (All Talking) Schoon/You have to remember on Linn Street that existing conditions in terms of the sidewalks we were working with, so that is also part of the reason why those bump-outs are narrower than what we would normally like is because we were This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 17 trying to work within an existing sidewalk width in terms of putting in the parking. So, that is a little different than this situation where we are basically able to start from scratch and build them to our design standard. But on Linn Street...cut down on those bump-outs and the lanes still aren't going to be as wide because we are still having to work with providing the angle parking and the sidewalk that is there- so that doesn't leave us the standard lane. Lehman/The islands will be made smaller- when it is made permanent- than it is today. Schoon/It will be made somewhat smaller. But it's not going to be...it's not going to be the distance that we are seeing here on Iowa Avenue. Lehman/It is going to be the same as the one in front of the Senior Center I presume, which is cut down and now that is permanent I think that that one is probably alright. Kubby/So, maybe one of the things that would be helpful for us to know tomorrow night is- what is that distance on Linn Street by the Library. What is that width of lane, so that we know, oh this one is two feet bigger than that, because I think that that is the fear- that we don't want to replicate that feeling or that issue. Just saying that we are not doing that doesn't seem to be enough, I mean, there is still this uncomfortableness to know what is that distance. Norton/Now where do bicycles go here now, in the street? O'Donnell/They have to. They can't ride on the sidewalk. Norton/They aren't allowed on the sidewalk. Dean's point about moving the whole edge back both here and perhaps in the 200 block making the transition at the 100, in other words, in the visual transition nobody is going to lie a ruler along this. But, you could adjust that, and make that lane wider then would you stripe it for bike lanes if you had a choice or would you just let them be a car? They will be a car no matter what? Lehman/You can't do that. If you did it you would have to go two ways on the bike... Kubby/But we are going from going, driving legally on the right side of the road- having cars come at you from both sides on Iowa Avenue- now to having only one side. Clark/And a fundamental concept of the master plan that I think we all liked was this center line of this road is now on axis with the Old Capitol. So you are now driving...we want to keep that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 18 Kubby/If we cut the sidewalk back all the way up and down, it also deceased that ability to have the benches and the sidewalk caf~s in front and then having that extra big space. It will cut back on one of the goals for the plan. Champion/I won't be uncomfortable if I know we are not duplicating that other situation we have. I just have a hard time visualizing. Lehman/Karen has a good point. If we just get the width of Linn Street in from of the Library and this I think that we will find .... I think that is better than anything else because we all know how constrictive that is. This has got to be five feet wider. Clark/We will go on our way out of town. Kubby/Just don't get run over. I've got some questions about all of the fixtures. Clark/We brought a light fixture with us...go ahead and ask your question. Kubby/Well I know that there was some comment at one of the meetings about wanting to be compatible with the other improvements downtown and I noticed that the kiosks are going to be the same and some of the colors are going to be the same to tie them together. So maybe you could talk a little bit more about what that tie-in is. Clark/You bet. All of the side furnishings, when I say side furnishings- meaning benches, trash receptacles, ash urns, and the paint on the light fixtures- will all match the same color of the downtown fixtures. The downtown fixture for benches are a wood bench, this project is having a metal bench- so we have a color tie, and we feel we have got a fixture tie with the bottom of that light. Norton/You are covering them because you don't want to throw more light in the sky? Clark/Right, we want to keep the light from polluting the air, if you will. We also want to focus your attention on the Old Capitol, not on light fixtures. And so, keeping that light pointing down on storefronts, pointing down on sidewalks, down on streets, is what we are accomplishing with that. We are having some limestone at the light bases to tie that material from downtown to this project. And the brick- pavers I think will bring that texture from downtown, the Ped Mall, to the 100 block and intersections. Lehman/Are all of the light bases going to be raised like that? They all will be? Oh, that is cool. Champion/It is nice. I like that. Norton/The tree grates aren't consistent, they aren't the same are they? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 19 O'Donnell/The tree grates are concrete.. Norton/They have slots.. Clark/Yeah, slots for moisture to get into, slots that allow any types of pedestrian movement to cross it and still maintain the root structure. Norton/Are they metal? Clark/They are concrete. Pre-cast concrete. Norton/But they don't match the ones in the rest of the downtown? Clark/No, they don't. Lehman/Why is the difference? Clark/We wanted to, I guess, create that root zone for the trees. And to do so I think from the long term maintenance benefit we felt the pre-cast concrete tree grates provided that long term maintenance for that root zone protection. Norton/It this a bigger one than the other ones? Clark/I just think that the metal ones over time may be more susceptible to disrepair perhaps, as opposed to the more hardier concretes... Lehman/I can see it being easier. I would think this is easier for ADA persons, than the metal grates would be. I mean, I can see where I think that problem will save... Norton/Are you going to put a railing in the middle of the bench so that it won't get skated? Or put an extra arm-rest in the middle? I am telling you it would be worth it- to get an arm-rest in the middle. Clark/That is a good point. We have not included an armrest in the middle. I am not sure the come with an ann-rest in the middle. Norton/They will jump fight up and roll fight down there. They have already done it on them. O'Donnell/It is illegal to skateboard...building this brand new skateboard park. Lehman/Although this is metal and they're not going to .... (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 2o Norton/I do think that if the center railing does not add too much or was a possible feature it would be kind of nice. Clark/It will be a custom. I mean, this bench does not come with that option, but we can look at the cost implications of that perhaps. Thornberry/I think that it is necessary. Norton/I think it is nice, not only that, it makes the bench usable by several people. You understand, different...it is easier to sit down at a bench that has got a divide in it and somebody it already at one end. In some ways I think it might help. Lehman/Two couples will be comfortable. Thornberry/I might go so far as to say don't put them in without them. I think it is that important. Because, if you put it in without them thinking that you are going to go back and retro fit later on, they are all already going to be chewed up. Norton/See what they say. The company ought to have that option. Clark/We will find out and get the cost implications. Lehman/But these will be far less susceptible to skateboards than the wooden ones are. They will get scratched, but... Champion/Because they have narrower little things too, slats. Kubby/And we have a lot fewer in number in this project than in the Pedestrian Mall too, so while the individual might be more expensive the overall cost won't be as dramatic. Norton/Can these be repainted or re-sprayed? Is that what they are? Clark/Yes. One change in the kiosk that you will note from the Ped Mall is that I believe there is a domed roof to the Ped Mall kiosk and we opted- we are not recreating the dome because there should be only one dome on Iowa Avenue and that should be the dome you look at to the west. And that is why the roof. Norton/So both logics are working: you want to match but you don't want to match. Lehman/Consistently inconsistent. O'Donnell/...this whole project I am ready to move on with it. This ash um thing here- it looks like you have to kneel when you walk by that thing. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 21 Lehman/Do you? O'Donnell/I don't know but it looks like... Norton/You mean it could have holy water in it? Clark/...my first impression. Fosse/But I think that it is too short. O'Donnell/I think that it should be covered with something too. Lehman/Have you seen these downtown? O'Donnell/What's that? Lehman/Have you seen these downtown? O'Donnell/Yes I have. Lehman/Do you kneel by them? O'Donnell/That's a personal thing... Norton/I've talked to the people who clean the streets about the cigarettes and they said they'd almost rather clean them up off the street then try to clean these ash trays. Lehman/Why? Norton/I don't know. One of them you sweep them up, otherwise you have got to kind of handle the ashes. O'Donnell/...you can see everything in it. Clark/It is the standard ash release dimension. Whatever that cigarette dimension is for... it is not lower than normal. Lehman/It is nice to know that we have a standard ash. O'Donnell/I think that we have two choices. One to not like that thing. And one to really not like that thing. Kubby/But, they are getting used downtown. I mean, I have seen them filled. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Norton/Are they this kind? Lehman/Yes. Exactly the same. Norton/We had one really.. design, remember that one that was kind of... O'Donnell/Nobody knew what it was. Norton/I couldn't figure out what it was either. I thought it was a spear. Lehman/These I think, they're getting used. (All talking) Clark/Should we see the light fixture? Is that okay? Lehman/Sure. if you hauled that thing in here and didn't show it. Clark/We have to show the light. Lehman/I want to see it turned on. Norton/I kind of wonder about the kiosks .... about not trying to steal Old Capitol. (All talking) Lehman/That will be that dark brown? Clark/Yeah. That will match the downtown fixtures and it looks large when it is six foot high but when it is at the top of this roof it is in scale with streets and items in there... Norton/That will please the physics department. Lehman/That's cool. Clark/... cost wise? Fosse/...met with the physics department last week and looked at the drawings of this and they seemed satisfied with it. (All talking) Norton/..talking at one point about lids on the ones downtown, the new ones. Were we talking about caps on those at any point? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 Page 22 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 23 Kubby/No we shielded them. Lehman/You can shield the ball inside. Fosse/We have tried some of those interior shields and they have not really produced any effects other than make them look kind of striped. It wasn't very attractive and we didn't see any benefit. Norton/Take a look at the lights that the University has on the hill, Washington Street hill. Coming up there, along by Shaeffer Hall. They've some kind of bulb in them that are so bright that you can't see anything else. It's like a halogen light. Coming up the hill on Washington Street, if you want to look at too much light there are bulbs that are so bright that you cannot see beyond it. Fosse/Straggling with that glare. Kubby/College Green Park was like that until we did something. That was bad. Lehman/Now, getting back to your kiosk, you didn't want a chrome dome because it was.. Norton/Gold dome. Clark/Yes. Lehman/I mean seriously, this is why, I realize this was done in conjunction with the University. Is this a decision that had input from the University and they preferred not to have a dome on the kiosks? Clark/This came out of our master plan committee back two years ago. This came out of the University and the city staff at that time and our committee and our design team- not to have a dome other than the capitol on this corridor. Kubby/It gets too kitschy, if we do it too much. Norton/They don't mind it in the rest of the downtown? They don't have any... Clark/I can't speak to the downtown project but that came out of the master plan. Norton/Does the University ever comment on the domes or kiosks? Schoon/In terms of it being downtown we really never commented on it. Norton/But won't there be some right up by the comer of Washington and Clinton at some point? That is fairly close to Old Capitol. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 24 Schoon/The closest ones will be at Washington and Dubuque and Clinton and College. Kubby/It was if we did the transit interchange with the dome that that would have been closer. Clark/The big difference is these will be in the same view as the actual dome. Lehman/We don't want people after visiting our local establishments to mistake one of these for the Old Capitol. O'Donnell/They'd be easily confused. Lehman/That's fight, some of them might be. Clark/Any questions regarding the information that you received in the booklets? Anything else? Kubby/Thanks for all of your adjustments. Thornberry/You've got the timing part of it down exact. Norton/When you say eliminate steps into the building, you can't tell at this point how that is going to work out in other words. Clark/We are getting close, some of the one and two step into doorways may be able to be warped out into the concrete in the 100 block. We are not going to be able to probably work on Brueggers and those big steps but the one and two step areas we are trying to eliminate those completely so that it is totally ADA accessible. Lehman/Are we also going to be able to accommodate for the most part the vaults that are located under the sidewalks? Clark/Yes, we have worked on that. Lehman/Because, I know that that can be a problem. O'Donnell/A 50 to 70 foot tree, that is awfully big down there. Lehman/We are going to prune it Mike, we are not going to let it get that tall. (All talking) Norton/That seems like a pretty good size, yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 25 O'Donnell/It does seem like it is too big. Clark/That is a full mature fifty year old height. In the urban condition this it is probably not going to get that tall. But that is... Lehman/That is a council fifty years of now decision, if they want to trim... Clark/There will be outlets at every tree. Lehman/So you can use an electric chainsaw. O'Donnell/Just as long as there isn't some Honey Locust plight and we lose them all. That happened with Elm. Norton/Oh yeah, at the same time. Kubby/...remember we replanted Burlington Street. Clark/Thank you everybody. Lehman/Thank You. Kubby/We should get Dee before we go on. Where is she? Norton/Sleeping in there. Thornberry/Let's just go on. We are ready to go home now. (All talking) Norton/I think we should stunt those trees... Kubby/Bonsai Honey Locust trees. O'Donnell/I do to. I think there should be lower trees there. Norton/Steve, do we have, when we talk about, do we have some commitment from the University in a number, do we not? Atkins/1.5 million. Norton/That goes toward this page we are looking at? Kubby/1.1 million? I'm sorry, what? How did you get that extra half million? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Atkins/I can't take an ounce of credit for that. Norton/Well that was very well done Steve. How many martinis did it take? Lehman/We confirmed that by mail a couple of months ago. Kubby/Good work to whoever did that. Fosse/Right now the cost estimates are on track to what we thought they were in June but in the final design we will be doing some alternates in there to give us some flexibility when we get to the building phase and as far as direction for tomorrow night do you want a short presentation? Lehman/...it would be appropriate to go through a, you know, a five minute presentation of each, five minutes per- not each of the three blocks- but a five minute showing each of the three blocks. We need to know though, for our information as well as the public's, the width of that street as compared with Linn Street. Fosse/Okay. So when he's coveting it, he'll just state that. Lehman/But, I think pointing out the lights, the benches, or whatever .... If there are any questions from the public or from us... Norton/We also need to be aware that not all problems are solved. That is, that there are still going to be some loading problems here and there, they are unavoidable. Lehman/But those won't be easy to describe. Norton/No, but we can't completely reinvent everything. Champion/...maybe there is someway we can do this and think about it without costing an arm and a leg. But I am really concerned about the parking on Iowa Avenue, um, maybe we should think, when we get that parking ramp opened, of having some special permit for college students or cheaper parking rate... Norton/To attract them to the ramp? Champion/To attract them to the ramp instead of those one hour parking places. Norton/That may very well be needed. Lehman/Hey, we can't discuss that while Dee's here, she is back in, we will talk about this at some other point. Thornberry/I really wouldn't bring up that ash urn. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 Page 26 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 27 Norton/No Appointments Lehman/Okay. The next item is appointment to the Riverfront and Natural Areas Commission. We have one applicant, do we wish more? Kubby/Kathleen Janz is really a bright person. I know her from the Red Cross from years ago. She is a hard worker. I would like to nominate Kathleen. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Her resume looks good. Norton/We have been waiting and waiting to get someone on that and they are going to be tackling that water problem and we need somebody. Lehman/Okay. Give me the name again so I can right it down here. /Kathleen Janz Kubby/You should see the muscles on this woman's arms too... (All talking) Lehman/Alright. We apparently have a majority, okay..Council Time. Council Time O'Donnell/I have got one. Ernie, I think that each meeting we have from now until the election time- I think that it would be very appropriate for you to encourage people to get out and vote. This 6.8% was just outrageous. You know, there is a lot of complacency because the people are satisfied. But, we need to encourage everybody to get out. Thornberry/Well, the fact that there is not even an election court. Everybody is running unopposed... (All talking) O'Donnell/...we had a dismal turnout and I just think we need to encourage... Lehman/I think that would be a good idea. Okay, anything else Mike? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 28 O'Donnell/No. Lehman/Connie? Dean? Dee? Vanderhoef/Yeah. I haven't talked all night- I get my five minutes. Lehman/Oh, five minutes- come on. This is a short meeting, you aren't going to run it into... Vanderhoef/Eight-thirty. Lehman/You will be here by yourself if it is eight-thirty. Vanderhoef/Okay. Since Connie didn't bring it up, she and I had some visit time going to the state meeting and we were talking about Sturgis Ferry Park. It needs work on it, yes, but as I was looking and talking and hearing about Brown fields at the state meeting, it was like, okay now that most of the housing has disappeared down in that area and we know we are sitting on a dump site and we have got Mesquawki right beside it- might this be an appropriate place to look at doing at more like a pocket park for a pull off from the highway kind of thing and maybe do lots more prairie grass and poplar trees and those kinds of things to help clean up the river? So, if anybody else is interested I would like to send it to Parks and Recreation and have them take a look at it and come back with some recommendations for us. Kubby/Isn't there a plan? There already is a plan for Sturgis Ferry Park. Vanderhoef/There is? Franklin/There is a plan. My recollection of it is that it has a walkway going along Riverside Drive. It had some tree plantings but there was a problem with bringing in some fill because of the condition of the ground. And we also had to reserve a spot for a flight tower for the airport within that space. At that time, the recycling bins were going to- the compost pile- was still going to be there so there was some screening in place. The parking lot was asphalt again because of the settling and change that occurs. But I think that what you are talking about Dee, you know with the poplars or some kind prairie plantings is that that might be a more up-to-date consideration. (All taking) Champion/It looks so bad .... either do something with it or get rid of it. Lehman/How do you get rid of.... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 29 Vanderhoef/Way back when they did some preliminary talking about what the bill would take just to make Mesquawki safe- if you've never walked down there it just keeps heaving up pieces of metal and so forth, so you really don't want people out there walking in it without lots of other fill in there. Maybe this would be a way to help clean up the contaminants that are down underneath there and let it.. Franklin/At Mesquawki, you are talking about now? Vanderhoef/Just continue to fight on down, to go with it. But Sturgis Ferry is also in that wetland flood plain kind of area and dump area so... Franklin/Yeah. It is the settling at Sturgis that is more problematic and then the depth of the topsoil that you have, in terms of planting anything. What could reasonably survive? Vanderhoef/Would prairie grass grow there? I don't know. Franklin/...because they were old municipal dumps and ... Champion/Why even designate it a park and put up a sign...? So embarrassing. (All talking) Franklin/...the little shelters there, I mean, those are near and dear to my heart Connie- that was one of the first things I worked on... Lehman/If they are vertical.. Vanderhoef/The little shelters can stay there. (All talking) Norton/Yeah, they are always leaning. Champion/Somebody should look at it and see if it not going to cost an arm and a leg- anything would be an improvement. (All talking) O'Donnell/I have never seen anybody at that park. There is no parking at that park. Norton/I sit down there and look at eagles every now and then. O'Donnell/Where do you park? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 30 Kubby/In that lot... I used to take my dog down there all the time, I used to go and clip lilacs. There is a huge stand of lilac trees that whatever we do- they are there and growing and we should let them stay. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Let them look at it and bring it back. That was one of them and I was thinking in terms- and I went to a meeting also on Brownfields- and here again EPA is sort of changing their rules on grants and so forth that are available for us to clean up areas. Originally I, what they said, they were stingy with the grants because they wanted to be sure that the people who created the mess didn't get dollars then to clean up their mess. And now they are working on a no-fault clause for new owners and are more lenient on getting some of these cleaned up, so, other than methane, I am not sure that we know what is in those dumpsites, what contaminants may or may not be in there and I would like to see what is there, in and around the public works area, before we get moving any further on that property. So, those were a couple of the things. Kubby/I need you to complete that sentence because we have already got a plan to move away from there. Vanderhoef/Right and the rest of that property other than the transit area, it is like what will we be doing with that property? And it has always been talked about that we will sell it. And, we need to know what is there. Kubby/But that is part of the plan for that property- is to investigate what the condition is and what we might want to do to it before we put it on the market so that we know what it is that we are selling because I feel we, that conversation... Vanderhoef/But we don't know at this point and I think that it is trying to get going. Because, we put in a grant application for Brownfields which we did not get on the initial go-around and Vice President Gore indicated that he thought it was very important when we talked to the Iowa Delegation in March that these great big grants be given to big cities and I think that we should try again and make our point that our cities in Iowa, they don't need the millions of dollars to clean up one city. We'd take those dollars and spread them around quite well within the state of Iowa and get a lot of bang for the dollar. And help us all clean up some of these things. So, those were a couple of them. I'll let it go at that. To be continued... Norton/I've got a couple. I won't take too long Ernie. One, Steve and/or Eleanor I guess, where do we stand with respect to camping on public streets? Is that next week? Is that coming up? Kubby/Next week. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 31 Dilkes/We are aiming for that, yes. Norton/Okay, good. And I would like to hear something Steve, about the transit interchange I read in the paper about lot 102- but I am like kind of wow, another 350 car parking lot? And I say, have I been in left field that long? Atkins/Assuming everything goes well, we plan Monday night next week to bring you the grant, the package and what everything looks like. As a work session item on Monday. Norton/Okay. I'll have to get up-to-date again. And what about the status of the ordinance on citing of towers, I noticed Mr. Lacina having his run-in with the county on, basically that is a PCS tower. Where do we stand on that? Is that P&Z? Lehman/That' s not city. O'Donnell/That's County. (All talking) Norton/No. Within the city I thought that we were rewriting an ordinance to try and make sure these things involved co-location and were on public properties because if you go to Minneapolis and places like that they are really coming on. Where do we stand? Franklin/That is still on the list of things to do, communication towers. Kubby/It is in work plan but kind of low priority right now. Norton/In that same one then, on the list- I am looking through things and looking for trouble you understand- but with respect to apartments, remember we were talking about compatibility of apartments- is that still in the pending list? Franklin/No that has actually been- it is in the process of being worked on by a committee. They are pretty much done with their work and that will probably go to the Planning and Zoning Commission in November or December and move to the council, I don't know February or March, probably after the budget. Norton/The final issue is I have noted that, some of us walk the river corridor trail, and you know when those trails get in you get a different view of the city from an angle that you never got before and there is some pretty grim environmental This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 32 features, shall we say, as you go down toward the Napoleon Park. And somebody says "Well who wants to ride that?" looking at all of this crud in the back and I don't know what is to be done about it but if I left that stuff in my backyard the city would be all over me like ants on a picnic cake, let me tell you. That's why... Champion/Only if somebody complained. Norton/Well, if you drive down there- there are big dumpsters and all kinds of trash. I don't know whether we have any jurisdiction or whether its...you talk about Brownfields, they are there. Atkins/I suspect there are some outdoor storage issues... Norton/All along Gilbert Street along the river on the east side mainly, but it is on the west side to some extent too. Vanderhoef/..some park things need help. Norton/...make that aspect. But it is just something, somebody take a look at, I don't know who is on first there but we should consider it. Franklin/I would caution you about that a little bit. As we've put these trails in we have put them through some commercial intensive areas where zoning allows this outside storage and at the time when we were talking about putting the trails in there was expression of concem by those business owners that if this trail was here the next thing they were going to get was some kind of control of their property... Norton/I see. I am living up to their expectations. Franklin/Yes you are. So it is just something to think about. Thornberry/I think you have to keep in mind who was there first. If it is zoning and it is a business.. Norton/Oh no, I understand that that is possible, but there ways and ways to store things too. Franklin/It may be looking at if in fact this is a public good of having the trail through here and these are successful recreational as well as transportation alternatives that- if we are concerned about that unsightliness- that we put something along the trails in specified areas where we take on the responsibility for the good of the public. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 33 Norton/I understand what you are saying all together. Again, it is something that we can have a commission that can look at, whether it is the River commission or the Parks and Rec, but, it just raises .... whatever we can do. I understand, I don't want to put somebody out of business but they don't hardly let you store three boards on top of one another in most places. Finally, where do we stand with M.S. Sweet? Has she begun a natural area or not? Has she not responded to that letter in September about becoming a natural area? This is the 1219. O'Donnell/1219 Oakcrest. Norton/There was a letter from the city in September that seemed to me very very generous and laid out how they might proceed, that there would be some inspections periodically and buffers and zones but I have never seen any response but I keep getting the phone calls. Thornberry/I am not sure if I know what you are talking about. (all talking) Norton/Oh boy. It has to do with a natural area you might call it. Atkins/I'll check that for you. Norton/Okay, would you find out because it seems to be pending and I can't tell who is supposed to take the next move. Thank you. I will stop looking for trouble. Lehman/This is going to be trouble if we don't get any interest in it, but I believe this council at some point is going to have to look at the possibility of limiting the number of liquor licenses in the central business district. Norton/That is on my list here and I decided to finish... (All talking) Lehman/Going to throw it out. We have three more coming up in the next few months and we already have more establishments than we have population that can support them. Champion/That is not our problem. Lehman/Except Connie, when we spend millions of dollars improving our downtown, the way we have, with the streetscape and the fountain and all that, and we look at what's happening to our downtown, I think that is not in the best interest of the public. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 34 Thornberry/You cannot dictate what goes in downtown. Norton/I think you can... Thornberry/We are not going to institute a prohibition. We are not going to put a wall around the city... Norton/They've done it... Lehman/I didn't expect this to fly tonight, I just said at some point... Thornberry/ .... and we are not going to tell what business can come in and what can't come in in Iowa City. Norton/Can do by zoning. (All talking) Lehman/...if you are really interested about the tax base of downtown Iowa City and it turns into nothing but bars, there will be no tax base. There will be nobody left. Thornberry/They all can't compete and stay in business, they can't do it. Lehman/And nobody else will be down there either. Thornberry/I am just saying that if it gets to a point where you can't have anymore- put three more bars downtown and somebody is going to go out. Lehman/If everybody else moves out and you have empty buildings and bars you have no downtown. (All talking) Thornberry/I have got more confidence in the business community than that. Norton/Who is going to stay in a hotel room, a high priced hotel room, and come out in the scene? Or how are you going to have high priced living downtown, condos, as we would like to have some residential downtown. And, people are not going to want to have that in the midst of the bar scene. I don't see how we are not going to do something in this area. O'Donnell/I don't think that you can ever control the number of licenses that you put out but I think you can put a restriction, if you have like 100 underage violations or something, you can restrict a license for a period of time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 35 Lehman/That's state law, not city code. Norton/Well, we have already gone over that and nobody wanted to get into the banning of underage after the point of nine o'clock. (All talking) Lehman/There is a Y2K meeting on Thursday night. I will be there. Is anybody else planning on being at that? Kubby/I am going. Mike, I thought that you were speaking? O'Donnell/No, I've got... (All talking) Norton/Who is concerned? Is this public reassurance? Atkins/Yes. Kubby/I think this is good information to put out there. As the date gets closer... Lehman/Anyway, I will be there. Norton/... stock ice cream. Lehman/Batteries. Everyone buy all kinds of batteries, coleman stove... O'Donnell/Blankets. Water. You had mentioned something about a meeting we had with the county on that 28(e) agreement. Lehman/Oh yeah, we did meet with the county on the 28(e) agreement. There are two areas that are of some concern although I don't think a great deal of disagreement. One of them is the lower West Branch road- Herbert Hoover Highway where that Lyman construction took place. The other is Highway 1 South, Highway 1, where obviously there is some commercial and there seems to be pretty much some interest in... Karin? Franklin/I'm here. Lehman/There seems to be an agreement on the part of the city and county both that we need to regulate that commercial, to be as compatible as we can with the interest of the city. Norton/It's not great already... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 36 Lehman/No, it's not great but it isn't going to go away... Norton/Could get worse. Lehman/And the commercial is there and what we do has got to be compatible with what is there and how we can- and how that can- develop in harmony with what is there. And I think that the two staffs will be working on that and coming back to us. The rest of the .... , I don't think that there is any disagreement at all about those two areas. I don't even know if there is disagreement there we just need to do something to plan how that is going to work. There are two other features of this that we have already talked about. One, is setting a permanent committee of council and supervisors so when there is a disagreement as to interpretation of print agreement we can resolve those sorts of things without breaking the agreement. We set that up last, we've already set that up once but it will be part of the agreement. The other one is that the agreement will be a five year automatically renewable agreement. So, that instead of having an agreement that expires on a certain date this agreement will automatically renew and will be reviewed at any point. But... Norton/Ernie, is there something special about that one on the south because the issue of development along Highway 1 is, could be, the same thing along American Legion road, or on ... or on Lower Muscatine, or Lower West Branch, any of those .... (Lehman and Norton talking) Lehman/But those two areas have already, the water is tainted if you will. These seem to be natural, one of them may not seem to be quite so natural but it is an interest to the city...that is going to incorporate some commercial. Highway 1- I don't think there is any question- is a natural commercial sort of area. I am not so sure the other areas are but they certainly are not identified I don't think .... in Comprehensive Plan...and there seems to be agreement between the city and the county. The two staffs are going to work that out and we'll get back again to see what sort of regulations that we will come up with and bring to council. O'Donnell/And I guess the point that we wanted to make was that in the event of an agreement it would be nice if we both abided by it and went through some sort of joint review to see if anything if going to happen. I just think that, it is already in my mind, that they have the agreement and something has already happened to make us question that. (Several talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 37 Lehman/But we set up that committee since then so that if it ever comes up again it will be part of the agreement. O'Donnell/And I think that is good. Kubby/And the track record for this latest agreement is a lot better than in the past because sometimes we would vote on a letter to the supervisors after they had already made their vote. They didn't even wait for our comment. And so, there has been, there is that one example. And it is important to remember that one because it is kind of a big one, but it is better than it was in the previous agreement so I think because we try to be really clear with them and our agreements have gotten better, I think that the joint planning with the county has gotten better... Lehman/Well, and we are very fortunate to have a county that is, they are kind of leading the charge when it comes to land use planning. I mean they really do compared to other counties. And I think that they are genuinely interested. I don't see a lot of conflict. O'Donnell/The point is we want a joint review with them and that is the agreement that we both abide with it. Lehman/Yes. Eleanor? Dilkes/Just briefly, back to the liquor license issue that you raised Ernie. My recollection is that my office has never studied the issue of whether we can even do that so I just want to make that clear. Lehman/There is no mandate to tell you to do that either. Dilkes/I understand that but I want that clear to the press that should be no presumption that that is even something that we can do. Lehman/We know that it has been done in other states but we don't even know if we can do it in Iowa. And if there isn't sufficient interest there is no point in looking... Norton/You've already got a vote? I'm interested. O'Donnell/I am not. Norton/That is two. Thornberry/I am not that socialistic. Norton/Well then we are just going to do nothing about it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 38 Lehman/Is there interest in... Thornberry/Oh listen- we have spent so much money and so much effort downtown to make it look so nice, yet the last thing I want to see is businesses starting to put bars on their windows. (Norton and Thomberry talking) Norton/... some way to help down there. Thomberry/But I don't think limiting a certain type of business just because you don't like it, or just because it is a bar, or is it a restaurant that serves alcohol or is it a bar that serves food- then you get into that argument. I know that there are ways of doing that percentage wise and everything else but to start limiting businesses... Atkins/You are into heavy duty policy, if you want the schedule we will certainly put it on... Lehman/...four people are interested in looking into the possibility of... Kubby/I think that the question is out in the community fight now whether it could be done or not so I guess I would be interested in knowing whether it a legal thing or not a legal thing... Norton/I hear every meeting. Why aren't we doing anything? Lehman/Are there four people here interested in ... Vanderhoef/That isn't my question. Mine is let's answer what the community is asking US. (Several talking) Kubby/I think that we can talk about this in terms of directing Eleanor to look at what is legal and not in regard to that question. Thornberry/I don't want to be part of that... Vanderhoef/That is what I want to know. Norton/Me too. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 39 Lehman/Eleanor, is that going to require a tremendous amount of effort to just determine.. Dilkes/I really don't know. I mean, I don't know. (Several talking) Atkins/Ernie, I think it's both liquor licenses and zoning... Dilkes/We have done a significant amount of research on the liquor issue that has not gone beyond my office fight now, so, I mean we have already spent a lot of time doing that so I guess if there are four of you that think you want to proceed that way it is certainly worth the time, but... Champion/I can tell you who be in favor with...I think that you are going to create a problem-I don't think that we should have Eleanor waste any time on it unless you think that we are going to get it done. You are going to have people buying and selling liquor licenses, buying and selling businesses at an exorbitant amounts, people paying each other to sell them liquor licenses. I know that it is not Chicago but you just leave yourself wide open for a lot of those things going on in your town. Vanderhoef/I had those same questions but I guess when people ask me the question "Is it possible?" I don't have an answer .... Kubby/It is a repeated question... Vanderhoef/...and that is all that I want to know- is it possible or not? Lehman/Eleanor, see if it is possible. Atkins/Ernie, I have one item for you. I laid a memo at your place tonight called Raw Water Resources. We have finished all of our testing for our wells and they far exceeded any of our expectations. Kubby/Quantity? Atkins/Quantity and quality, so .... (Several talking) Norton/That wasn't exactly the case when we started... Kubby/That one well. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199 October 11, 1999 Council Work Session Page 4o Lehman/Then we fractured it- then we re-fractured it. Atkins/Point is that our well water resources far exceeded our expectations. Lehman/Water resources are doing well. Atkins/Thank you very much. Karr/Are we adjourned? Lehman/Yes we are. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of October 11, 1999. WS101199