HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-02-01 Transcription#2 Page
ITEM NO. 2 OUTSTANDING STUDENT CITIZENSHIP AWARDS
Lehman: We have three young folks. Would you come forward please? If you
would give us your name and then if you have something written could
you read it for us?
Hanson: My name is Hannah Hanson and I am from Mark Twain Elementary.
Thank you very much for nominating me for this award. I think the
reason that my teachers picked me was because I am very active in school.
I really enjoy school and I am glad that I have the opportunity to be in
such a great school. I am a member of the Conflict Managers. During
lunch recess I go out on the playground and help students solve their
conflicts. I am happy to be a member of the Builders Club which is a
small part of the Kiwanis Club. We do community service projects
around town. I am an ambassador in my class so I help new kids get
acquainted with everyone else. I also help them out the first couple of
days and show them around. I am a member of the Safety Patrol so before
and after school I help the other students cross the road safely. I am very
busy with music right now. I play in both orchestra and band. I think that
music is very important and schools should allow their students to
participate in music. I hope the school systems will allow fourth graders
to be in the strings program and the fifth graders to be in band for years to
come. I would like to thank you once again for nominating me for this
award and congratulations to everyone else. Thank you.
Mayberry: Hello, my name is Zoe Mayberry. I am a sixth grader at Mark Twain. I
try to do as much as I can to help people. I am a Safety Patrol, a Conflict
Manager, a member of the Builders Club, a Junior Staff at the BASP, and
I help my teacher Mrs. Berger after school. I think Safety Patrol is an
important job. It is my responsibility to get kids across the street safely. I
have recently been chosen to be a co-captain and that is an even bigger
responsibility. I think Conflict Managers is an important job as well.
Conflict Managers go out on the playground at recess and help kids solve
their conflicts. We are starting indoor Conflict Managers very soon.
Builders Club is an organization provided by Kiwanas. Builders Club
volunteers a lot. They also help the elderly. BASP stands for Before and
After School Program. The Junior Staff makes sure that kids are
following rules and staying (can't hear). I was Junior Staff of the month
in December and I hope I will be it again. I like to help Mrs. Berger after
school because it makes her life easier and she doesn't have so much to
do. She gives me candy but that is beside the point. Basically, I just do it
because I like to help. Even though I do all these things I still have time
for school work. I think that is why Mrs. Berger chose me and I am very
glad that she did.
Lehman: Thank you. And you are Michael? Your last name?
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Mitchell: Mitchell.
Lehman: Mitchell? Are you a member of the Builders Club too?
Mitchell: No.
Lehman: That is too bad because Builders Club is put on by Kiwanas and I am
Kiwanian kid. That is just an outside plug. I can tell you that we are very,
very proud. This is one of the really fun things that Council does. And
being a grandfather and having granddaughters it is especially- and a
grandson is coming along. It is a lot of fun for me and it is a lot of fun for
Council. I will read the award and I think this really- Council means what
they say here. "For your outstanding qualities of leadership within Twain
Elementary as well as the community, and for sense of responsibility and
helpfulness to others, we recognize these students as outstanding student
citizens. Your community is proud of you. Presented by the Iowa City
City Council, February, 2000". I hope that when my granddaughters get
to be in the fourth grade they go to school in Iowa City and I could give it
to them although I wouldn't be Mayor anymore. Maybe I could get an
honorary task of reading it for that night. Nothing would please me more.
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ITEM NO. 3 MAYOR'S PROCLAMATIONS
Lehman: Next item is a proclamation. Whereas Special Olympians have a strong
desire to compete and win, and whereas Special Olympians know that
bravery is measured in setting goals and attempting to reach them, and
whereas Special Olympians recognize the joy, pride and self-worth,
humility and disappointment inherent in organized competition, and
whereas Special Olympians appreciate the benefits that healthy
competition and physical activity can bring, and whereas Special
Olympians give the entire community a chance to gather and share their
spirit of accomplishment, therefore I, Ernest W. Lehman Mayor of the
City of Iowa City, Iowa do hereby proclaim the month of March 2000 to
be Special Olympics Month in the City of Iowa City and urge all citizens
to commend and support the activities of the Special Olympics.
Karr: Here to accept is Joyce Rossie.
Rossie: Hi, I am Joyce Rossie with Las Vegas Live Steering Committee and a
member of the board of directors for Special Olympics Iowa. Our
fundraiser Las Vegas Live, this is our 10th annual- what we do is we raise
funds for the midwinter tournament which is held March 18 this year. The
athletes have a banquet on March 17 and our event Las Vegas Live is
March 4. So we thank the Council again for making March Special
Olympics month. Our committee thanks this Council whose has once
again declared the month of March Special Olympics Month. Without the
support of our community, our volunteers, medal sponsors, area
businesses who have donated prizes, and the merchants of Eastdale Plaza
who have allowed us to use their facilities, we would not have been able to
enjoy the success that we have had. We hope that you will join us March
4 at Eastdale Plaza for a truly enjoyable evening of fun and entertainment.
On behalf of the Las Vegas Live Committee and Special Olympics Iowa
we would like to thank our corporate sponsors: L.L. Pelling, River
Products, and we have Tom Scott and Deb Tisor, General Mills, Merit
Electric, Kenny (can't hear) and Kim Downs and our official radio station
100.7 The Fox. Tonight we have here to accept the award, Annie
Skelling. Annie enjoyed swimming and that is probably her favorite sport
but she does compete in 7 or 8 other sports. Jason (can't hear), his
favorite is power lifting. And he also competes in at least 7 or 8 sports.
And in the back we have their coach John Meskimen who has been a
coach for over 20 years. I would just like to thank you all.
Lehman: Well obviously we are very proud of you and the sponsors, I think this is
incredible. This is such an important event for this community. I have got
to tell you one quick little story and this is the cutest story. We had a state
event here about three years ago. And I was invited to attend and Chuck
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Long was at the head table with me. And it was at the Rec Center and
there were- the University Rec Center- and there were probably 400 or
500 kids there. And each plate-
Rossie: 1100.
Lehman: 11007 Okay, an incredible bunch of young folks. At each plate was a
little foam robber football and everybody got a football. Well, the kids
soon discovered that Chuck Long was at the head table. So, we had this
line of a couple hundred people long all wanting Chuck to sign the
football. Guess who else they asked? Never signed footballs before in my
life but I did that night. Thank you folks very much.
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ITEM NO. 4. CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS
PRESENTED OR AMENDED.
Vanderhoef: Move adoption.
O'Donnell: Second.
Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion?
Kanner: Emie? I've got a couple of things I would like to mention about that.
First would be that there is going to be a public hearing on transportation
consolidated transit funding application and that is going to be March 7th
and I was wondering if someone could just briefly explain that for all of us
and for the community? What that hearing is for.
Lehman: This is the JCCOG appropriation?
Atkins: Annually the city applies for transit aid through the Iowa Department of
Transportation. And basically what is involved is that the state makes
available a certain pool of monies we have to apply for and then these
monies are required to have a public hearing, that is, folks are allowed to
come and comment. And anything we gain from this grant application
goes into our operating budget in support of our own public transit system.
And it is a lot of money. There is several hundred thousand dollars at
stake.
Kanner: Thank you. And the other item that I wish to make note of [is] in our
consent calendar- we approve of a number of items and we also approve
that we note that we received a number of letters. And of late, as been
mentioned before, we received a number of letters about the underage
drinking problem and part of the things that we do on the consent calendar
is approve liquor licenses and I just wanted to let people know that we are
planning to address that issue in, probably, April after the budget talks.
And it is something that we would appreciate further input on. I am sure
all of us on Council would like to hear further on people on solutions that
we can do to make the community a better place and address these issues
ofbinge drinking and underage drinking. Thank you.
Lehman: Okay. Any other discussion? Roll call. Motion carries.
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ITEM NO. 5. PUBLIC DISCUSSION. (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
[UNTIL 8 PM]
Lehman: This is a time reserved for comments from the public for items that do not
otherwise appear on the agenda. If you wish to address Council please
sign in, give your name, and limit your comments to five minutes or less.
Kenyon: Is the public discussion right now?
Lehman: Pardon?
Kenyon: Is the public discussion right now?
Lehman: That is right.
Kenyon: I am sorry. My name is Michelle Kenyon. I am addressing you tonight
about why I think the Council work group meetings on Monday night
should be televised. It was brought up at the last meeting and I thought
there was some input that I can give to that. I have attended one work
group meeting prior to- and I also attended the City Council meeting that
was after that. Since I had the privilege of attending both meetings that
week I felt very informed. That experience made me realize that, like me,
you all did not understand completely the zoning matters in the subject of
the agenda. At the work group meetings a map was shown, questions
were answered- all the information that you needed was right there to
make an informed decision about the proposed zoning matters. I want to
be involved in our city's planning process but I cannot understand what
changes are being proposed as they are listed in the zoning matters section
of the agenda. Citizens deserve the right to have the same information.
They deserve to have the same informed decision that you do. So please,
please, televise Monday nights work session. Thank you.
Coleman: I am Dan Coleman and I want to speak to the same question as the
previous speaker. And basically, I think that as Council Members you are
probably the most aware of anyone in the community of the sacrifices it
takes to be involved as citizens in the processes of governments. And I
think, I would hope, that with that awareness you would want to air on the
side of making it as easy as possible for those of us in the community with
the many responsibilities of work and family etc to be able to keep up with
the processes of city government and to participate. And there is a lot of
information, both in terms of background on issues as was just mentioned,
but also the questions that you raise that are very important to us as
citizens to understand that come up in the Monday night meeting, so that
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when we come on Tuesday we can speak to those questions
knowledgeably knowing which of you Council Members have which
concerns and can address from our perspectives to offer you the benefit of
our awareness and knowledge as the citizens who are part of this
community with you. So, I urge all of you to look for a way to make the
televising of the Monday night meeting a possibility. Thank you.
Boos: Hi, I am Florence Boos and I'd like to read to you a brief prepared
statement and then to give you some packets of information. The
statement is on alternatives to sharp shooting for 2000-2001. The City
Council recently authorized the killing of 360 deer, many more than the
275 cited before the fact as the city's goal. Newspaper articles have also
alluded to intentions to kill more deer in future years and reported
demands by Anthony DeNicola that the city revoke ordinances which
outlaw the use of silencers and firearms within 200 yards of habitations
and extend future shooting to Hickory Hill and other areas protected to
date. In response to these demands and other developments, I have
prepared a packet of information about other alternatives which I urge the
Council and the deer commission to consider. And these are taken from
the deer management resolutions. The Council' s deer management
resolutions for '98 and '99 also mandated non-lethal policies of citizen
education, careful use of signs, and participation in contraception
programs. In what follows I will quote passages from these plans and
pose some questions about their implementation. In section one of the
Council's deer management plan of March 1998, resolution 9887 for
example, the Council decided that "the City of Iowa City will develop a
comprehensive educational program that will provide Iowa City residents
with information on deer' s seasonal habits and guidelines for limiting
localized deer damage through the use of repellents, screening, alternative
plantings and other techniques. Education materials will be distributed
with each new resident's packet and information broadcast regularly on
government cable channel four. The City of Iowa City will organize
public information meetings regarding the methods of deer management
listed herein." Have these things really been done? How regularly? Has
anyone in the Council Chambers ever seen notices of such regular
broadcasts and meetings? In section two the Council further mandated
that "the City of Iowa City will evaluate and where appropriate install or
partition the state of Iowa or Johnson County to install on roadways under
their jurisdiction warning signs and/or reflectors that may reduce the
likelihood of vehicle deer accidents. In addition, to minimize deer vehicle
conflict thoughtful consideration will be given to deer migratory paths as
transportation improvement projects are approved by City Council". I
know that some reflectors have indeed been installed with good results.
Has anyone seen new warning signs? Have recent and current plans for
city roads actually reflected thoughtful consideration of deer migratory
paths? Finally, and most tellingly, section seven of the plan mandated that
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the City of Iowa City will pursue a study in cooperation with the Humane
Society of the United States of the feasibility of deer (can't hear)
contraception within its corporate limits. I have recently spoken with
Patricia McElroy the Humane Society's deer research specialist. She was
not aware of any expressions of interest in the Society's efforts on the part
of any representatives of Iowa City. To me, these contrasts between
placatory phrases and lethal actions suggest that deer shooting, not deer
management, was the City' s first priority from the beginning. Of the
$15,000 which the 1998 management plan allocated for a long-term deer
management plan, what proportion was appropriated for education,
selective sighting and study of deer pattems, construction of new fences,
contraception studies? According to another passage, this time from the
deer commission report for 1997/98 "when available, contraception would
be the preferred method of stabilizing the deer population in the Iowa
City/Coralville community". The Humane Society has made substantial
progress in the testing of a contraception. They expect to recommend for
general use soon. In the meantime, they are conducting field studies with
good results. Mrs. McElroy told me the Society is indeed willing to send a
representative to lowa City to examine whether local conditions permit
contraceptive testing and eventual use here. And their chief concern is the
laws. In this concrete sense, the preferred method is available now. In the
context of other more pressing debates about financial limitations, I also
ask you to reconsider tonight the cost of the brutal means of population
limitation the City chose to underwrite. Beyond the City's contractual
payment to White Buffalo of $70,000 lay other less quantifiable costs
including unspecified forms of logistical support. May I guess that the
City and other agencies spent $100,000 for 10 days of slaughter? Does the
Council really think such expenses were cost effective and intend to incur
them again? And then there is also the issue of whether after shooting
deer reproduce more rapidly, in which case like a cash cow, again and
again one shoots again and again they produce. In support of the position
that no genuine social needs justify, continued employment of sharp
shooters, I have put together a packet of documents I hope you will
consider. And then I have a copy of these for each member of the
Council. One is a memorandum from Pat McElroy, the wildlife specialist
of the National Humane Society outlining recent testing efforts. The
second is an article by Alan Rutberg, the chief staff biologist and principle
investigator of contraceptive methods for the Humane Society of the
United States. The third is a letter by a biologist and consultant for the
Fund for Animals, proposing alternatives measures. He offers to speak to
members of the City Council and I give his phone number. An article
"Living With Deer" by Thomas Eveland, a research biologist and various
other matters. And I also have contacted three cities, Boulder, Colorado;
Hudson, Ohio; and Highland Park, Illinois, all of whom do not kill their
deer and have policies explaining why and are happy with the results. So,
thank you for your attention.
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Lehman: We will see to it that the deer committee gets that information as well.
Boos: And you had mentioned before there might be a chance at some point to
be on the deer commission and-
Lehman: And I think we sere you a letter after the last meeting and I think we will
keep you informed on that.
Boos: Good. I hope there will be vacancies at some time.
Kanner: Emie, aren't we going to be getting a report from the deer committee
about what direction they feel they should go?
Lehman: I think when they reconvene- when they reconvene and I am not sure
when that will be, but I am assuming sometime within the next couple of
months they will start to meet again. And, yeah, I am sure we will hear
from them.
Kanner: And bring a proposal to us about the composition in the direction of the
committee because there is a little confusion about how the composition is
made up and who can be appointed and who can't be appointed.
Lehman: I don't know that there is anybody that can't be.
Boos: But you have to be appointed though. I mean, I want to be appointed, I
can't be until I am-
Lehman: We will- do you know how soon they will be meeting again Steve?
Atkins: It's due to happen very soon because (can't hear).
Lehman: I would assume they want some sort of a wrap up and evaluation of what
transpired in the fall and obviously they will be looking at the situation
and deciding what, you know, what further steps they need to take. But I
would hope very soon and I am sure they will communicate to us.
Boos: I hope there is a place for citizen comment at the deer commission
meetings too.
Lehman: There are. Those are open meetings, every one of them and they always
have been.
Boos: I guess my plea is that you take the money that would be put into the
budget for 2000-2002 and use it for non-lethal methods.
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Lehman: Okay. We hear you.
Boos: Thank you.
Lehman: Other public discussion?
Karr: Mr. Mayor? If Ms. Boos would like to leave something, would you like to
accept it?
Lehman: Yes.
Champion: Move acceptance of correspondence.
Vanderhoef: Second.
Lehman: Move by Champion, seconded by Vanderhoef. All in favor?
All: Aye.
Lehman: Opposed? Motion carries.
Kanner: Is it hard, Madan, for us to send notices to all those people in the past half
a year that have spoken in Public Discussion or about the deer issue?
About the upcoming meetings?
Karr: We certainly can pull that off a database and we have done that in the
past.
Kanner: Is that something that we could do, Ernie, you think?
Lehman: Oh, I am sure it is. And it also- I don't think there is any question that the
meeting of the deer committee has been extremely highly publicized.
Now, the only way you don't know about the deer committee meetings is
if you don't read the paper, don't listen to the radio, or don't watch TV. I
have no problem with notifying these people but with that kind of
notification no one should be unaware of the fact that that committee
meets. And it has been that way for two years.
Kanner: Well you have just described like a UI student that people who have come
to testify- it might be worthwhile for us to send a postcard or something to
them.
Lehman: We can look through them.
Kanner: And get that input.
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O'Donnell: I don't know how many are interested.
Lehman: Other public discussion?
Reed: Alright, thanks for your time. I would like to read from a statement.
Lehman: Give us your name first please.
Reed: My name is Eric Reed. And, before I say that, I would like to also first
say that you've all been sent copies of some of the ideas that are in this
statement and also have been sent copies of a petition with almost 700
signatures pertaining to this issue. I would like to address the issue of
accommodating dog owners in specific areas of town, mainly Hickory
Hill. I think this means a lot to a lot of people in how they chose to live.
And I also think that this means a lot to the City of Iowa City which is a
community that is grounded in the idea that a variety of lifestyles can
peacefully coexist. I can appreciate some of the calls you do receive and
the concerns that people have. The question at hand is whether or not a
completely blanketing restriction or even isolated minimalist provisions
are the only alternatives. The other side of this coin is a majority of
people who most frequently visit Hickory Hill and people who aren't yet
complaining in number. That is the side of the dog owners. If you have
ever owned a dog or own one now it is easy to understand that exercise
and socialization reached through closely monitored off-leash time is far
superior to that of restricted walking or even jogging. This far superior
exercise allows a dog to release energy that would otherwise be put, be
directed, at the behaviors we don't wish for as a community: barking,
digging, or other completely natural responses to boredom that combines
itself with an abundance of energy. The socialization is equally important.
If a dog can't learn to meet and properly socialize with other dogs, which
they can't on a leash, then they won't learn to be social in general and
dogs without the knowledge or social know-how are the dogs that are
more likely to exhibit aggression. I would much rather encounter a dog on
a trail that is well exercised and been socialized than one whose life is
characterized by restriction, a lack of energy- a lack of exercise rather- and
a lack of experience in social settings. Off-leash time and areas,
considering these facts, does seem pretty reasonable. And given the fact
that responsible dog owners would also like to see aggressive or
disobedient behaviors deterred, the question of off-leash permits has even
been raised. If animal control could determine whether or not an animal
had aggressive tendencies, which it could, and determine whether or not it
readily responded to owner commands, people whose dogs qualify could
by an off-leash pelTnit. This would generate revenue for the City and
avoid segregating dog owners to any area of town that is accessible only
by vehicle. The City could even require that owners prove that
vaccinations be up to date and, if you chose, prove that a dog is covered
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on a home-owners or renters policy which is a very inexpensive way for a
dog owner to alleviate any concerns that sometimes arise concerning
liability. We havc generated a lot of ideas and we have sent them all to
you and we would really like you to consider them. This is a physical and
emotional need for some animals, most animals. And if we are going to
be a community that fosters coexistence and not hostility or a separation of
lifestyle, we need to be more aware of the fact that there are plenty of dog
owners- almost 7 of 10 visitors at Hickory Hill is a dog owner on any
given week. The only days that there are more non-dog owners than dog
owners are usually days that follow heavy snowfall. Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you.
Champion: Thanks.
Lehman: Steve, would you see that that information gets to Misha. Have her look it
over and if she has some comments send a note back to Council? Other
public discussion?
Funk: Hello, my name is Deanne Funk and I am also here to talk about the leash
law at Hickory Hill Park. I know- I just want to say that most of the dog
owners do not want to alienate the walkers. They try to keep their dogs
away or, you kno~v, we want to work with them. And if there is, you
know, snowfall and there is, um, you know, sledders or skiers, maybe we
can not go at that time- when the first snow, the snow- sorry, a little
nervous. But I just want to state that we really do want to work with
people and that we are not trying to work against them. Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you.
Atkins: Ernie, can I make a comment please?
Lehman: Yes.
Atkins: It is starting to bunch up at the door folks.
Lehman: We have to stay away from the door, we have fire codes.
Atkins: We have to have the door clear. Thank you.
Charlton: My name is Mary Charleton and I want to say one last thing about the
leash laws at Hickory Hill. I just wanted to speak for the people that go
there- I have gone there for over a year and I have never one person, an
irresponsible dog owner, that let' s their dog jump on anybody [or]
anything like that. It is kind of a community out there and it has fostered a
lot of adoption from the pound. I know people have multiple dogs that
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come out there and it inspires you to yet another dog because it is so much
fun to go out there and everybody gets along and all the dogs get along. I
have never seen a dog fight. I have never seen a dog attack somebody.
And so I just wanted to say people that go out there are very responsible,
the dogs leam commands better, like the former speakers have said. They
are socialized, they learn all the good behaviors that would prevent them
from even needing to be on a leash. So, that is it.
Lehman: Thank you.
Pfab: I would like to make a comment on the discussion of dogs in Hickory Hill
Park. I believe that- my concern is not other people, it is the habitat-
habitants, of the park itself. Now, dogs are predators and they disturb a lot
of other animals and things in the park. That is my biggest concern of
unleashed dogs in the park.
Man: (can't hear)
Pfab: Sure.
Lehman: Well, no, no. what we will do- we are going to turn this over to our
animal control officer who will respond to the information you gave us. If
the Council chooses to discuss this again, which we probably will, we
would certainly be interested in your comments. But we are not here to
discuss that tonight until we get information from our animal control folks.
Wilburn: The issue has also come up in front of the Parks and Recreation
Commission several times in the past. I don't know if we want to-
Lehman: Oh, it would involve a lot of different people. Okay. Holly?
Berkowitz: Hi. I came to speak for the Englert Theatre.
Lehman: Holly, that appears later on the agenda. And that would be the appropriate
time to discuss it.
Berkowitz: Okay.
Lehman: Okay.
Kanner: Emie, before we go- and I just did want to thank the folks for coming
forward when putting out some creative solutions to the issue of dog and
leashes. I think it is good that we get the dialog going on that.
Lehman: Right. Other public comment?
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ITEM NO. 6. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS
b. PUBLIC HEARING ON A RESOLUTION TO AMMEND THE
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO ADOPT AND INCORPORATE
THE SOUTH CENTRAL DISTRICT PLAN FOR PROPERTY
GENERALLY LOCATED EAST OF HIGHWAY 218, SOUTH
OF HIGHWAY 1 AND WEST OF THE IOWA RIVER.
Lehman: Public hearing is open.
Atkins: Ernie, while these folks are coming to the mic there are 7 seats over here.
Lehman: There are some seats up front for you folks if you need a place to sit and
you won't be blocking the door.
Gillespie: My name is Beryl Gillespie and I think-
Champion: I am sorry, I couldn't hear you.
Gillespie: Gillespie. Beryl Gillespie. That is B-E-R-Y-L. I think I am addressing
this development and I do have a copy, presumably it is fairly up-to-date.
Lehman: I think it is the most recent.
Gillespie: This was, well- September. So maybe I am a little out of date but I have
been trying to keep somewhat up-to-date.
Lehman: Okay.
Gillespie: And since then, of course, we have some other issues that are far more
general but should reflect on any development there. In December, you
have stated your expected approval of a 6.8% property tax increase. That
was stated December 24, printed in the Gazette. At the same time you
also anticipated an increase in utilities for the City of Iowa City. Just last
week we have heard through the Gazette that the Johnson County also
anticipates an increase in property tax. Now here we are again going for
an increase in these features which are predominant if for your capital
improvements as well as your general funding. You are already within a
very dreaming view of your budget because everything else seems to
expand in its needs. The north Peninsula was supposed to be sold last year
for a little over 4 million dollars. They are already anticipating now $4.3,
more cost to the City before you sell it. The noah area is already into high
form of development and each time you are talking development you are
talking also utilities because the basics there are your water in and your
sewage. And your dreams of all these plans for this South Central area are
just beyond the means of a budget including those increases that you have
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already anticipated accepting for yourselves in March. And if you want to
ask questions, I have done some research. And it does say here that, again
this kind of information is coming through the newspaper, that you
anticipate using 1.6 million for the central south district. Now that in itself
you know is just a beginning to enormous other costs. If you wanted to
put a road in that has nothing to do with any aspect of the road beyond just
the pavement. That has nothing to do with sewage, or bringing in water,
and most of your dreams right now are in areas in which you are
expanding beyond the actual city limits and requiring much more than just
a renovation or an improvement in what is already there. Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you.
Kanner: Beryl? Beryl? I did have a question for you.
Gillespie: I am not sure I can answer it, I only have a few pages of notes but.
Kanner: Do you have any thoughts on what you would like to see in that South
Central District?
Gillespie: Well, in the time being, I would- from the- from their implementation
sections would be to revise and renovate that area that is already
developed. Work within that section, with improvements and perhaps
rearrangements, that they are saying that some of this area is not really
compatible with residential but residential commercial. But your dreams
of further industrial parks is going to require an enormous amount of
further investments including buying property. So I would encourage
development within what is already within the city limits and has within
range the same facilities of sewer and water available now.
Kanner: Thank you.
Dane: Mayor Lehman and friends on the Council, George Dane, 4120 Dane Rd.
(reads letter) And as an aside I would like to issue two invitations. From
our house you can get a good overview of the west end of this arterial.
Each of you and all of you are welcome to come out and take a look. And
the second one is a little more fun. If you have got any kids or any
grandkids that like to go sledding, bring them out! The snow is almost
perfect. Just give me a call. In the last group that came was a mother and
three grade school aged sons. She had never been sledding on a sled
before. And she had the most fun. The three boys had only sled in the
backyard a couple of times and so this was a new experience for them too.
And it is okay to bring some friends. We will have a party and as I told
somebody, if you feed me a little hot chocolate I will get the tractor out
and pull you back up the hill.
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Champion: Thank you.
Vanderhoef: Thanks George.
Kanner: George? I had a question for you.
Dane: Yes.
Kanner: Could you come back to the mic? If we were to take into consideration
the aesthetics that you described of the hill and why it should be preserved
and why perhaps we should move the road down for a number of reasons,
would you be will ing to consider some sort of deed that would preclude
that hill from being developed in the future?
Dane: We would be open to that. Frankly, this kind of snuck up on us. We
thought we were sitting up on the top of the hill and this was never going
to happen. The family does have some history of being interested in the
community in this way and I don't know the right thing, whether it would
be a scenic easement, deed it as a park, whatever the restrictions are but
we would be open to that. Very much so.
Kanner: And the other question- I am sorry, no go ahead.
Champion: No, go ahead. You finish.
Kanner: The other question I had is one of the options (changed tapes) farther away
from your property and closer to the Williams property. And, do you have
any sense of what the Williams feel about it getting closer and closer?
Option 1.2 goes 720 feet from your property and 70 feet- or from the
residence, from your residence- and 70 feet from the Williams residence.
That is the furthest one south that you listed here, 1.2. So I was wondering
if you had any sense of what the Williams feel about this?
Dane: Tom and Karen have been neighbors and good friends of ours for years. I
wouldn't want to inconvenience them in any way if that possibly could be
avoided. I grew up on the farm out there by Tommy. I think he would
have to speak to that himself. It might even depend on the timing. I think-
I couldn't speak that. I don't know.
Champion: I don't if this is the time Council discussion or not (can't hear) but I
certainly want some answers about why they are going to cut into that
hillside. We certainly have had very good luck cutting into hillsides in
Iowa City. I really think to preserve that area would be well worth our
time and energy and that this road is not going to be built in the next 10
years probably. Maybe not even in the next 20 but it is a line on a map.
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But I think a line on a map carries a lot of weight. I think you are
absolutely right about that.
Karr: Do we have a motion to accept correspondence?
Vanderhoef: So moved.
Lehman: Moved by Vanderboef.
Wilbum: Second.
Lehman: Seconded by Wilbum. All in favor?
All: Aye.
Lehman: Motion passed. Thank you George.
Berkowitz: Good evening- Holly Berkowitz. I would like to speak in favor of
stopping urban splat. It is related to urban sprawl. It is sort of like a belly
flop. And, think more as a whole so that we use the land that we have
wasted in parking lots and empty buildings and ugly places. There is so
much ugly land around here that is wasted and going to waste- just taxing
every body. Why don't we come together and think about how to use the
land we have in a more vibrant way? Put our energies- it is so easy just to
lay down and sit and rest and not do anything. But, to get the inspiration
to do something and to work together as a community. That is why we are
here tonight. It is to have the synergy to come together with ideas. And
so, um, thank you both for (can't hear) to protect the land that we have and
I request that you focus your efforts instead of spreading outward, onto the
farming land and to the land of recreation to focus our energy instead on
building up maybe two or three stories in a more consolidated area so that
we don't have to drive so far to do anything. I have been to Europe, I
have been to Israel, I have seen that- I've seen quite a few times that close
planning does not have to be undesirable planning. In Tel Aviv there were
several million people in a very small area but it still felt open because of
the way that it had been planned. There were walkways by every
apartment building. Public walkways so that you didn't have to drive
everywhere. And please, please, we have the opportunity now to, um,
build our roads and buildings and planning so that we can use mass transit
to cut down on our consumption. Why do we waste so much? If we
waste our land we waste our lives. Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you Holly.
Wilson: I am Larry Wilson, Campus Planner for the University of Iowa. And first
I would like to say we do appreciate having been a participant in this
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planning process. But I want to make it clear that this road, the arterial
Mormon Trek extended, will go through our Mossman Business Services
site. And while it xvon't go throughout the building, it will restrict us from
our intended future uses. We have a master plan for the site and it would
use, entirely use, the site. I am already getting pressure from residents of
the building to go into planning to expand it or do some more loading
docks. And so I think the bottom line is we are open to talk about
altematives and there has been a few talked about already. And so we are
open on that but we are going to get pressure sooner than later to resolve
how we are going to deal with it. So I just want to make it clear that we
are open but we do have some concems about how the road fits our
property.
Lehman: Thank you.
Champion: What building did you say it cut through?
Wilson: I am sorry? The Mossman Business Services building.
Champion: Right.
Lehman: Is that the old Pepperidge Farm Building?
Wilson: Yes.
Lehman: Yeah, that is what I thought. IfI am not mistaken there is some rather
severe topographical constraints or wetlands or whatever that really
severely limit where this road can be located.
Wilson: Yes, and in fact when we talked to the planners about the alternatives and
then we realized that this has a lot of advantages for the road. Not
particularly for us.
Lehman: Right. Right.
Spaziani: Hi, Carol Spaziani. I live at 806 West Side Drive, which is just across
Highway 1 from the South Central District. And I am just recently moved
there and I am just waking up to the fact what is happening across the
highway. We now have Rock's Roadhouse. And I would like to say that
there is a traffic problem as you probably know. It is a very intensely
settled U, West Side Drive, that both legs of which open onto Mormon
Trek and we are sort of captive audiences there because we can't get out
onto Mormon Trek very easily. I don't think there is any plan for
stoplights when it changes to four lanes because the traffic count doesn't
warrant it. So it makes it even more important that we be able to walk to
the commercial areas on the other side of Highway 1- to the Wal-Mart,
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Staples, Cub Foods area. I think it would help relieve the traffic
bottleneck there if we could go down the trail, the Willowcreek trail, out
to Highway 1 and somehow get to the other side of Highway 1 without
risking life and limb and walk along that south side of Highway 1 to the
Wal-Mart area. It is a very short walk. It just a little over a mile. And I
think a lot of us would go do errands in that way instead of driving and it
might help the traffic bottleneck there. So, as you develop the south west
plan if you just think about the pedestrian aspects of it- I know it is
probably the last thing you think about in an industrial commercial area
but there are those of us close by who do need to walk there to help save
the traffic.
Lehman: Carol, I think that is one of the first things we think about and there is in
the plan-
Spaziani: I must admit I haven't-
Lehman: -a pedestrian trail right down where you want to walk. It is part of the
plan.
Spaziani: Great. Okay. I haven't seen it, but does it go to the Wal-Mart? I mean,
not that I go to Wal-Mart everyday but.
Lehman: Yep. It goes all the way from practically Highway 218 all the way to
Riverside Drive. All the way down.
Spaziani: But doesn't it go down around the airport instead of to-
Lehman: No, it is on the west side of the airport. There is another one- we've got
trails all over. We've got trails that even rabbits can't find.
Champion: (can't hear).
Spaziani: Is there one that is going to take us to the shopping area?
Lehman: Yeah.
Spaziani: There is. Okay, great.
Lehman: Or you can go to the airport too, we have got (can't hear).
Spaziani: Think about more and more pedestrian walkways. Even in industrial-
Vanderhoef: -across Mormon Trek, Carol. There will be a trail also either on- a trail or
a wide sidewalk situation that is part of the trail.
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Spaziani: Will it go along Highway 17
Vanderhoef: It will come across Mormon Trek also to get across there.
Lehman: Other comments?
Schuchert: My name is Bart Schuchert and I think you are talking about the South
Central District plan? Is that correct?
Lehman: Right.
Schuchert: Alright. I have a copy of something here that I would like to give to you.
Kanner: Got an extra one?
Lehman: That is okay. We will get copies. Is there a motion to accept
correspondence (can't hear)?
Wilburn: So moved.
Lehman: Moved by Wilbum. Seconded by Vanderhoef. All in favor?
All: Aye.
Lehman: Motion carries.
Schuchert: It would seem that most people are talking about the alignment of the
bypass on the road and so forth but we have a totally different concern
here and I would just like to read this very briefly and then, you know, can
go on from there. (reads from letter, first page). And again, I would like
to bring this out. If you look at the- (can't hear) proposed plan. For
example, the current land use for Tom Williams is RS. Right up in here.
And of course that is strictly agricultural, as it has been. Our back
property, it shows RS, but nowhere does it mention the highway
commercial in the front. The bottom line is that we are currently zoned
for highway commercial in the front and RS in the back and with the new
proposal we are not being zoned but just being recommended that we have
very restrictive use of our potentially commercial land in the front. (reads
from letter, second page). And again, we have the manufactured home
court to the north, we are being zoned for neighborhood commercial and
of course with all the traffic basically going north Iowa City we would
have no traffic pass through, you know, pass by our property. (reads from
letter, page 2). I apologize for being a very poor public speaker.
Champion: You did fine.
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Schuchert: That's- I had to read this. I would be glad to answer questions.
Lehman: An important part of public speaking is that people hear what you said.
Schuchert: I am sorry sir, I am also hard of hearing.
Lehman: I said the important part of speaking is that we hear what you said. Is your
property abut the 4-H Fairgrounds?
Schuchert: Yes sir.
Lehman: Okay.
Schuchert: And, you know, that is something that in a way bothers me because I think
that we have been so good, you know- we have had kids in 4-H forever.
We rent ground to the 4-H right now to park on and so forth and so on. I
have a very bad feeling that somehow the- this whole thing is being put
together so that the 4-H can buy some cheap ground to expand- please
listen Emie- to expand their operation. And I will guarantee you that I
would hope that is not the case because we have always- talk to George
Dane, talk to Overroans, talk to anybody- we have always worked great
with the 4-H. We would continue to work great with them, but we seem
to be becoming- it seems like they want to make us a buffer zone for either
expansion of the 4-H or whatever and, you know, that is just somehow not
fight. And that is really all I have to say.
Champion: Just to clarify- are you noah or south of the 4-H grounds?
Lehman: Noah.
Champion: North.
Schuchert: Noah. The 4-H reins some ground from us, four acres of ground to park
on, and at a very, you know, we are not making any money on it believe
me. The 4-H is not- you know, it is- we have a very good relationship
with the 4-H and want to maintain that relationship. I would just hate to
think that the proposed- and I agree, it is not zoning. It is land use
recommendation. But we all know that once we try to do something with
the County that is counter to what may be in this plan, the City will be
dam near down our throats saying you know, well "that is not consistent
with our plans so we don't like it". And Counie will probably not agree
with them. We want to maintain good relations with the 4-H but we don't
think that we should have to be a buffer zone. You know, that is what it
amounts to.
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Kanner: For our benefit and the audience, could we have it pointed out on the map
over here where people are talking about? The Dane farm and the road
and where this is.
Lehman: I don't know that ~ve have a map that-
Kanner: We have over here-
Schuchert: Believe me, the road we are talking about and the Dane farm has nothing
to do with what I am talking about right now.
Kanner: No, I am just saying so that we can get a sense and the audience can get a
sense of where these things are. Perhaps if we can just point out-
Lehman: We can do that- Karin? But I think the description is what will be most
recognized, is that his property is the property between the manufactured
home park south of Iowa City and the 4-H Fairgrounds. There is a strip of
land in between that belongs to Mr. Schuchert.
Schuchert: That is correct sir.
Lehman: Adjacent to old Highway 218 south. And that is the location of the
property.
Schuchert: And the bottom line is we- you know, I have lived on there for, well, in
about 2 more weeks I can draw social security. I have lived there all of
my life, so about 62 years now coming up. And I don't think that we
should be restricted to being a buffer zone or you know an expansion for- I
love the 4-H, believe me.
Wilburn: Mr. Schuchert?
Schuchert: Schuchert.
Wilburn: Schuchert, I am sorry. You mentioned that you have a concern about
being bought out by 4-H or-?
Schuchert: No, sir. I don't have concern about being bought for 4-H. You know-
Wilbum: You had mentioned some type ofulterior-
Schuchert: The bottom line is-
Wilbum: I was curious as to where- I was curious as to the concems that you
addressed [and] the fear that you had. Wasn't that from 4-H or do you feel
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that pressure from the City? I am- I will let you say what it is you wanted
to say.
Schuchert: Well, I am not sure exactly what your question is but it would seem to me
that the, you know, all of these draft plans have looked on us as a buffer
zone between the 4-H or a Fairgrounds and whatever else. The have also
mentioned the fact that we are part of an entrance into Iowa City and they
would like to make sure that we don't have a truck stop there for example.
I would hate to remind City Council that the reason we have the property
across the road from us as we do is because the City, many years ago,
decided to zone down the center of the highway to the east and make that
an operation that could crush cars. And of course, there would never be
over 8 to 10 cars in that crushing operation. There was also at that point in
time, or after that, a bum built after the junkyard came past the car
crushing. And again, the berm was destroyed and filled in. Again with
the blessing of the City. So, I guess that we shouldn't be part of what has
happened to the entrance from the south coming into Iowa City. I think if
you go down and look at our land you will find that it is pretty well
maintained as the 4-H ground is. We try to mow, we try to do everything
else.
Wilbum: So, would it be fair to say that- would it be fair to say that your concern is
your reaction to the plan as the City is proposing it and not with any one
individual in particular?
Schuchert: My concem with the plan sir is that the land should have more value than
to be a parkway into Iowa City.
Wilbum: Okay.
Schuchert: And I hate to be, you know, at my age I would like to think that the- at
least for my kids- the ground might be worth some money. And it
certainly will not be if- like I say, we can't build a church there. I don't
think too many people want a church there. Or a an old folks home or
something like that. The ground is commercial.
Wilbum: Thank you. I just wanted to understand where you were coming from. So
thank you.
Schuchert: Sure.
Kanner: Bob? Over here. I have a question for you.
Schuchert: Yes, sir.
Kanner: Steven Kanner. What were the- how long have you owned the property?
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Schuchert: 62 years. No, no- that is not right. My brother and I have lived there- I
have lived there forever. My mother died in 1976 and at that time we
inherited the property.
Kanner: When did the county put those zoning restrictions that they have on your
property?
Schuchert: They are not restrictions sir, number one. They are very- I would say 20-
25 years ago. I really don't know. We can certainly check that out but it
has been many many years ago and like I say, it is not a restriction. It is
Highway Commercial.
Kanner: Well, there are some restrictions that are listed here.
Schuchert: Anything from a farm to a- anything from a farm to a truck stop. Now,
that is not very many restrictions sir. Well, let's look at it.
Lehman: This zoning is pretty non-restrictive.
Champion: Right.
Schuchert: Ernie, it is pretty non-restrictive right?
Lehman: Right.
Champion: Totally.
Schuchert: Okay, thank you. I have- we don't want to put a truck stop there. We just
don't want to have to put a church there. And that is what is being asked
of us right now, you know? And the bottom line is that this whole thing
came about, we really learned about what- how restrictive our zoning was
the night that they, you know, the planning and zoning commission voted
on this thing.
Lehman: There were a series of plans though- meetings I mean- on (can't hear).
Schuchert: I wish you would go back sir and look at the- how this thing transpired.
And that is why, you know, I bring up points like the asterisks. Do you
have a copy of this plan? I am trying to find the right page. There are so
many plans here I can't keep up with them. It is here somewhere. Would
you like to look at this?
Lehman: I have this copy. We all have this copy.
Schuchert: Okay. You do see the asterisk in that one, right?
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Lehman: Oh, yes.
Schuchert: We also have one September '99. Do you have that one?
Lehman: One is future land use and one is current land use.
Schuchert: Future land use is what we are concerned about.
Lehman: And current shows the property being agricultural land use.
Schuchert: Okay. Now here, for example, in the one of September '99, you will see
there is no asterisk and you will also see that the colors are identical. And
so we had no way of understanding. You know, you could hire lawyers
and do this kind of stuff. We didn't. I mean, that is the bottom line. We
thought the commercial was commercial. We find out- if you look at the
difference between this map and that map you will see a significant
difference. Somebody made it a point to point out in this map after we
found out about it that, you know, neighborhood commercial is totally
different from retail community commercial. And you folks are very
aware of that from the Mercy Hospital situation that just came up with
wanting to put an office down there. Neighborhood commercial had to be
changed to something else to be able to get that in there. It is very
restrictive zoning. And we have, right now, totally non-restrictive zoning.
And we don't want to put a truck stop there, but I don't think we should
have to be a buffer zone for things that we never caused in the first place.
Lehman: Okay. Thank you. Any other comments on the South Central plan? We
are going to continue this public hearing for two weeks. Holly, do you
have something further to say?
Berkowitz: Yes, I wanted to add two comments about urban sprawl. One is the reason
we have that is because taxes are too high in the inner city. Taxes are too
low in the agricultural lands. That is why the growth goes out away from
the city center and that is why the urban center rots. We have to find a
way to reverse that process or else our inner city will die. We might as
well put up the tombstone fight now. Second, when you are planning with
the budget you count more than cash at the time. Cash only counts cash.
It doesn't count anything else.
Lehman: Okay, right now we are talking about the South Central plan.
Berkowitz: Okay, but the motive behind the changing agricultural land to urban is for
money. For cash flow. We have to start listening to more than cash flow.
Cash flow is starting to mean very little when so many have so little and
so few have so much. A dollar doesn't mean the same to everybody and
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we have to start realizing that and planning for communities and
neighborhoods that take care of their people and that grow what the people
need. So, let's say keep the agricultural then and the agricultural
productivity because that is going to grow through time. Concrete,
concrete will crumble through time and lose value. Reverse the- I've only
got started on this. I need some help figuring it out but we need to stop the
sprawl please.
Lehman: Thank you Holly. Do we have a motion to continue the public hearing to
February 157
Vanderhoef: So moved.
O'Donnell: Second.
Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by O'Donnell. All in favor?
All: Aye.
Lehman: Public heating will be continued to the 15th of February.
Karr: Mr. Mayor can we have a motion to accept correspondence previously
received?
Wilburn: So moved.
Lehman: Moved by Wilburn.
Vanderhoef: Second.
Lehman: Seconded by Vanderhoefto accept correspondence previously received.
All in favor?
All: Aye.
Lehman: Opposed? Motion carries. Yes, sir?
Williams: Is the hearing over on the South West District area? Is that what you just
voted on?
Lehman: Well we just continued it. Would you like to speak to it?
Williams: Well, considering that I am one of the cut through land owners, yes I do.
Lehman: That is why we are here.
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Williams: Okay, that is why- I didn't hear that that's what you were voting on.
Okay, Tom Williams is my name, 4146 Dane Road. I am the property
next to George, between that and the Iowa City airport. I have been there
for 40-something years. Yes, I am not interested in a street going through
the middle of me, though I understand they told me I guess two months
ago that this is a ten or twelve year project. I do not know that. You can
change things real fast if you want to but I just stand on the record that I
am not ready. I am standing in the way of an thoroughfare street. That is
about all I have to say.
Lehman: Okay, thank you. Thank you Tom. And we will be discussing this again
two weeks from tonight. Do we want to take a break before we go to
Mercy? We are going to take about 3 minutes before we take Item C
which is another public hearing.
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ITEM NO. 6c PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE
ZONING DESIGNATION FROM NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL
(CN-1) TO COMMERCIAL OFFICE (CO-l) FOR 2.5 ACRES OF
PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF FIRST AVENUE AT
TUDOR DRIVE. (REZ99-0015)
Lehman: This is a public hearing and the public heating is open. And Karin, if you
would explain a little about this project before we start.
Franklin: Sure.
Wilbum: Ernie, before she goes and while you are up here Karin maybe you can
clarify this point for me too. We are talking about- the prior hearing- we
were talking about the District plan part of the comprehensive plan.
Another- opportunity for comment at the next public heating, isn't there in
the future another opportunity to talk about some proposed zoning change
when that comes?
Franklin: Absolutely, yeah. In order for any of that property to be zoned in the
South Central District- I think all of the property that people spoke about
is in the county and we need to go through an annexation. It would need
to go through a re-zoning. Those are both processes which have
opportunities for public input, both at the commission and the Council
level.
Wilbum: Okay, I will try to remember to mention that at the next (can't hear)- when
that comes up. Somebody pointed out to me that probably something that-
is to educate, for educational purposes.
Franklin: Sure, sure.
Lehman: Good point. Go ahead Karin.
Franklin: As the Mayor said this is a rezoning of 2.5 acres from CN-1 to CO-1.
Basically, the difference between those two zones is the CN-1 is primarily
a zone for neighborhood service types of uses. That is, businesses that
would meet the day-to-day needs of a neighborhood or a group of
neighborhoods when it is located in an intersection of two arterials as this
particular zone is. A CO-1 zone is an office zoning which is primarily
dominated by office uses. The reason that this rezoning was requested is
because of the medical complex. The size of the medical complex did not
meet the office stipulations of the CN-1 zone. Offices are permitted in
CN-1 however the square footage is restricted. In the CL-1 the square
footage is not restricted. In this particular rezoning there are two
recommendations that are before you. The recommendation from the
Planning and Zoning Commission for denial and the recommendation
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from the staff which is for approval. The Commission' s recommendation
is based upon the concept that it would be imprudent to change this from a
neighborhood services type of zone to an office zone at this point in time
because the neighborhood is not fully developed because First Avenue has
not been connected. And when that completion of the neighborhood
develops in northeast Iowa City that there will be a need for more
neighborhood commercial and the kinds of businesses you would find
there. And that it therefore is not appropriate to rezone it to a zone which
would have primarily office uses. The staffs recommendation is based on
the fact that we do not believe that that is as critical. The CN-1 zone that
is there is now approximately 7 acres [and] that with the rezoning that is
contemplated of the 2 acres, that would give you about 5 that are left
which would still have some opportunities for either neighborhood
commercial redevelopment of the Hy-Vee, or the old Hy-Vee, now the
Drugtown at- on the comer across the street as well as some of the
businesses that are immediately noah of the Mercy complex. And when I
talk about redevelopment I am talking about many, many years hence.
Obviously we still have viable businesses and buildings there. As the staff
went through the analysis of this project we looked at the site planning for
it. When it was originally submitted there was an extra curb-but shown on
First Avenue. There was not integration of the parking. The building was
set back and there was a driveway and parking between the building and
the street and thus our original recommendation for denial. Once we got
past that first question of whether the zoning change was appropriate we
did look at these site issues. We worked with the Mercy staff to try to get
a site plan that was going to meet some of the characteristics of the
neighborhood commercial zone. And we believe that what they have done
in terms of modifying this site plan eliminating the one extra curb-cut
which would have been across from Tudor, using the existing drive,
integrating the parking at this facility with the existing parking, moving
the building closer to First Avenue, eliminating drives and parking
between the building and First Avenue, and providing pedestrian access
through this commercial area as well as from the new building to First
Avenue meets the spirit of the CN-1 zone even if the specific uses are in
excess of what you would normally find in CN-1. So the staff is
recommending approval on this. I think Mercy has a presentation- are
there any questions about either the commission's recommendation or the
staff' s recommendation?
Champion: No.
Kanner: Yeah, I had a question and I might also ask that this of the Mercy folks.
The original staff concern was the regional nature of the office clinic in
combination with the auto oriented design. Those two things. It seems
you have addressed the auto oriented design aspect but what about the
regional nature. Has that been addressed by staff?.
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Franklin: After some discussion, I think one of the things that we became aware of
or maybe thought about some more was the changing nature of medical
practices. And that what we may have wanted to see in this kind of area in
terms of medical services that could be neighborhoods, that is single
doctors offices, was something that we are not seeing that much of
anymore. And that there are some advantages to having these medical
services in residential areas if they are fairly limited residential- medical
services. This is a 20,000 square foot building and it becomes a
judgement call as to whether that is too big or not big enough. And the
judgement that we made was the way they have laid out the site plan, what
they have indicated to us is going to be in this building, should work in
this area. It would provide medical services to the larger neighborhood. It
would probably be eastside medical services as opposed to just one
neighborhood. But that this could work in this location and would be
appropriate.
Kanner: Thank you.
Franklin: So, it is kind of a rethinking of how you have medical services in more
residential areas as opposed to requiring them to be in larger commercial
areas.
Kanner: Well, just to follow up on that [and] talking about medical services- is
there any kind of- I know this discussion is going on all the time in the
society at large about how medical care fits in with our communities- is
there discussion with the City in any kind of forums with the University
and other medical providers on this issue and how we would like this to fit
in? Because it seems, as you explain, it is a question that we have to
wrestle with.
Franklin: No. There hasn't been. And I am not aware of those kinds of
conversations in terms of the City being involved in any discussions about
the trends or the future of medical care. Right or wrong, sometimes we
are responsive to certain businesses. The changes that have happened in
grocery stores are, I think, an analogous situation. Where it is- you really
cannot find small mom and pop grocery stores anymore. In fact, you can't
find small grocery stores except for Fareway. That is the only business
right now that does small grocery stores. It is something that we really
have to kind of confront in terms of how do we get these services to
different residential areas and still deal with the trends that are happening,
whether it is in a grocery store or it is in medical care? But we have not
taken a role either in trying to determine the trend in grocery stores or
determine the trend in medical care.
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Kanner: Maybe it is something that we want to look at of how we can be more
pro active in just our local community in developing health care for our
community.
Franklin: That is a big one.
Kanner: But certainly, I mean, something- maybe to start by forums in talking
about this. Especially I think with the debate being focused a lot with the
Presidential debates talking about health care and we can bring that to a
local level perhaps and see how it affects us and see if we can be more
proactive in servicing our community- making healthier communities in
all the senses.
Franklin: At the Council's pleasure.
O'Donnell: Karin, would the footprint of this building on the lot allow for future
expansion or would it be limited to this building due to parking
restrictions?
Franklin: Because of the parking restrictions and the storm water detention facility
there on this property I don't see how they could put much more, if any
more, square footage on this building. So, it appears to be maxed out
because they've put the parking that they need for this 20,000 square feet
and I don't see where else you would put any more practically.
O'Donnell: Thank you.
Vanderhoef: So the only additional area to expand services are the two acres that you
were talking about earlier and that would either be redevelopment of the
Hy-Vee lot or the one that is to the west of the driveway that goes into the
service station?
Franklin: Well, it is five acres and, as I said, this is a very long time out in terms of
redevelopment but I am thinking more of the bank and the combination
residential commercial and I am talking a very long time out on that
because those are still very viable buildings and uses. The Drug Town
comer, that is not being fully utilized now and I would predict in my
crystal ball that there will be some redevelopment on that comer. I see
that as the probably more immediate opportunity.
O'Donnell: So do I.
Franklin: Ten years, I don't know.
Pfab: I would definitely question the similarity between bigger grocery stores
and bigger medical practices.
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Franklin: That is fine. I just took that off the top of my head.
Pfab: But I mean, because of the fact that- I think you are starting to see more
and more ##### medicine. You are seeing out-patients by the hospitals.
So the need for a lot of services in the doctors office may be less and less.
Also, I am concemed about is that facility a good location for the facility
considering the need for other medical services in other parts of Iowa City
that are properly zoned? I really question if that isn't really crowding
something onto that because that is going to draw a long ways.
Franklin: This was a question that was similar to some of the discussion at the
Planning and Zoning Commission and that is where you need to make the
judgement.
Wilbum: Perhaps this is a good time to hear-
Dilkes: Yeah, I think you need to start the public hearing.
Rohrbach: Thank you. I am Steve Rohrbach with Rohrbach Carlson Architects. We
are representing Mercy in this development and I guess I am here to give
you that presentation that the lights were dimmed for.
Kanner: What is your last name Steve?
Rohrbach: Rohrbach. It is R-O-H-R-B-A-C-H. I want to start with helping you
understand this site because there is a lot of things going on with the site
that impact the development. Just a little bit to tie in to some things that
Karin said, this is the area going over to the Drug Town area over here
coming back down to the dental clinic. This is the 7 acres that she is
talking about. Okay, it includes the Drugtown, Iowa State Bank, the
commercial building, Dan's Short Stop, the dental clinic. Then the area
that is in the pink boundary here is the 2.5 acres that we are talking about
developing. As you can see in the blue, this is about an acre and a half or
about 60% of the site. That is all that is really developable here. This is
the large storm water basin that is presently on the site that has to be
(changed tapes) twenty-foot fall from this comer of the site to this comer
of the site. So, it is not the type of flat site that a developer just moves
onto and builds a building. It is a very complicated site. This area of site
in fact, and Dick Parrott can attest to that in his building, is all fill. So, to
suggest that you could build a one story building is really problematic
because your foundation walls and footings are going to go down 12 to 15
feet to be able to get on the type of soil that you need to bear on. So that is
really promoting this site to be a multi-story site because of the land
topography and the fill that is on the site. There is access that was
permitted as a part of the CN-1 zone off of First Avenue and this is some
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of things that we worked with the city on. There is approximately 10,000
square feet or about 25% of the area in the zone that now is available for
lease. There is about 9,000 square feet over in Drugtown and there is
about a 1000 square suite in the commercial building. So there is
availability, referencing back on that conversation, already available in the
zone for leasing to retail or other office type of facilities. Medical offices
are a preferred, one of the preferred, uses in this zone. Just so you are
referenced, the zone would allow about 14,700 square feet more office
space on it. And that kind of compares to the 20,000 that were are
proposing in our project. Presently the zone only has 10% of it in office
space, or about 4000 square feet. I'll go back Jason. A couple of things-
we are buffered on this site. We have a large garage unit to the south that
buffers this site from the apartment complex that is here. We've got the
storm water basin here that is a large buffer to the residential area here.
We've got the commercial to the north as well as the street before we get
to the residential area on this side. So, it is a well-buffered site in terms of
a commercial project to the adjacent residential areas. Just quickly
helping you understand and remember the site- this is standing on Tudor
Drive looking to the west. This is the site here- the upper part of the site.
Go on Jason. This is standing down looking at the existing commercial
building and this is some of the architecture that you see on the site. This
is Dan's Short Stop up back behind there. Go on. This is standing further
down to the south. You can begin to look at the fall that is across the site.
This is Dick Parrott's clinic back here and to the northwest of the site.
Again, a large fall- this is kind of standing on the southwest comer of the
site looking back across the drainage ditch. Again, starting to understand
the amount of fall and movement on the site. And this is the large parking
garage that buffers it on the south that is really, again, the buffer to that
residential complex. This is our proposal. This is a two-story medical
office building. I should say office building with a medical clinic on the
first floor- or on the second floor or the upper floor. And the lower floor
would be available for office. Mercy doesn't have any exact plans for that
right now. We are going to use the about a 1000 square foot of it for
storage for the clinic upstairs but its basically been allocated as office type
of facilities in this proposal and consequently the parking that goes around
the site is because of that 20,600 gquare feet. Again, recognize that we're
a two story building because of the topography of the site and the grades
in the fill situation. We did not approach this project to begin with to be a
two story building but because of the nature of it- of the site- we are
building that lower level anyways. So we are just trying to make good
functional use of the land and the resources that are there. This will be the
main access off of First Avenue coming into the existing commercial lot.
We've taken the new parking lot to the north and integrated it together so
that it is a continuous flow and parking lot. Our drive access to the lower
level of the building comes along the west side and parking down here for
the lower level of the facility. Again, trying to integrate access off of the
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private drive for that. Access offof First Avenue [is] here. We've tried to
make some very strong emphasis for pedestrian access to First Avenue to
the building complex and from the building complex to the north to tie to
the- tie into- and through into the existing CN-1 zone. Again, we've got
10,000 square feet of medical office on the second floor, 10,000 square
feet on the lowest level. One of the things that I've got to really
emphasize in this design is that we are minimizing the disruption of the
site. For those of you that live on the east side and see the amount of work
that has been going on out on Scott Boulevard for the redevelopment of
that elderly complex there, the amount of site development that went on
for Walgreen's- we are not anywhere going to be moving that much dirt.
We are building into the existing topography of the land as much as
possible so there won't be the overall disruption to the neighborhood and
envirom'nent like some of the other developments had. We've tried to
maintain quite a bit of greenspace both in front of the building and in the
back of the building. Again, the storm water basin is a good buffer but
we've got a nice buffer to the residential area here. We've tried to
maintain, and you will see this coming up, a residential style to the
building. We are not a high-tech looking building. We are a very
residential style to fit within the community as well as to fit into the
concept of CN-1 zone idea. Go on Jason. Uh, go back. Okay, I want to
talk a little bit about some things that Karin talked about earlier about the
things that we had worked with the city on. This was our original design
proposal. This was the access point here at Tudor Drive that we had lots
of discussion on and compromise and that is the drive that was moved up
here. This was eliminated from our plan. This was a buffer that we had-
we had about a 10 foot greenspace that disconnected this lot from this lot.
It really didn't flow together. That was one of the things we compromised
and agreed on bringing together. We took the drive access to the lower
level and brought it back to the back of the site so we've got more
greenspace to the residential and to the First Avenue. The building moved
about 33 feet closer to the street so that it had more of tie to the street as
well as a tie to the commercial area. Again, we had pedestrian access
points to the site but not as readily identifiable as the city would like as
well as the CN-1 zone so that is the change that we made in that type of
access. Go ahead. I just want to briefly show you some conceptual
images. Again, these are computer images so they get a little bit color
distorted but this is a view from the noaheast approximately where the
entrance drive would be looking back to the building. We are looking at a
brick building with gabled poly-asphalt shingled- or wood shake roofs.
An integration of some stone or some limestone for some accents,
breaking up the facade with different ins and outs and roof lines. Go
ahead Jason. Again, this is looking from Tudor Drive- the existing site in
the next slide kind of shows you what the building would be as this site
kind of slopes down to the south. You begin to see the two-story in the
back, the one-story grade where the pedestrian access point would be
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would be almost level across Tudor Drive to that location. This is more of
an aerial view if you were up above the residential houses to the west
looking across the retention basin. Again, the scale of the building is not
out of context with its surroundings. As a two-story building it is really
down in the ground and is not a large vertical element. Actually, it won't
even be as high as this existing building. Again, if you were coming into
Dan's Short Stop from the noah from Regina this is kind of the view that
you would see. The parking lot here and the building sitting back there so
it's still got a good identification to Rochester. Quickly we want to just
show you some animation that we did on the building. This is kind of a
fly around that helps you understand the site within its context. You can
see that the parking garage to the south, you can see the commercial
buildings to the noah. Again, we've got the buffer of the retention basin
here. As we do have a large amount of parking, we are buffering that
parking with trees and landscaping so that it is, you know, not readily
available or identifiable to the local residents to the west as well as the
residents to the east. Again, the scale of the building is low. It is not
intrusive at all to the character of the area and very much within the
thinking of the CN~I concept. When we looked at this project we said
"what if?.". Here are a couple of just quick analysis that we put out here
for your reference and background. If the site were left CN-1 zoned, it
could still have a large massive development on it. This could be up to a
24,000 square foot building broken up in smaller 2400 square foot office
parcels. This site could hold up to a hundred and twenty parking spaces.
This CN-1 zone would allow access onto Tudor. So, again, we are not
providing a more dense development here. Yes, we are asking for more
office space than what the zone would allow you but we have a much less
dense development in terms of land use and open greenspace. This could
be a grocery store that could be fit on this site. 20,000 square feet, 100
parking spaces out in front, with trucks coming and going on Rochester
right in front of Regina to the back door of it. So, there is a lot worse
things that could happen on this site than what we are proposing. And I
think that needs to be kept in context that we are not providing a more
dense development here. It is going to be very integrated into the CN-1
zone and very sympathetic to the neighborhood.
Pfab: I have a question. If you were going to be- I mean, just "what if's here".
Rohrbach: Uh-huh.
Pfab: If you were going to build that building like you say there how much fill
would you have?
Rohrbach: Oh, you would have an astronomical amount of fill there. No doubt. But,
again that is not-
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Pfab: So it is really- that is not really possible?
Rohrbach: Oh, it is very possible. It may be economically impractical, but.
Pfab: (can't hear- talking at same time as Rohrbach).
Rohrbach: I would be happy to answer any questions.
Kanner: Are Ron or Lynn here?
Rohrbach: Lynn is here.
Kanner: Can we maybe address some questions to you?
Rohrback: She has got a bear- she's got a hoarse voice but we will do our best.
Whisler: (Can't hear).
Kanner: Thank you. And I think that was a good presentation and I think, Steve, I
think what that showed is that the issue is not so much how it will fit in
but the usage. That is one of the key components in my mind of the
rezoning. The usage and how will Mercy make use of it. And so, I have a
question or two along those lines. I am a neighbor, I live down the street
on First- on Washington and First Avenue. If I were to walk in, I don't
have any health insurance, would I be able to get an appointment to see
one of the doctors?
Lehman: Steve, that is not relevant.
Champion: That is not relevant.
Kanner: I think it is relevant and I'11- let me make the argument. I think it is
relevant because we are talking about regional versus local and I think it is
important to establish that they are going to be good neighbors. We are-
one of the reasons for the smaller designations of 2400 is the assumption
that it is something that is going to fit in well with the neighborhood
concept. We have to determine if this is going to be a regional kind of an
approach and something that is going to not fit in with our idea.
Lehman: How does that relate to health insurance?
Kanner: Well, no- the idea is ifI come in there- if someone comes in off the street
are they going to, and people in the neighborhood come in off the street,
are they going to be open to that idea? Often times the case is that it is
hard to get in with a doctors appointment unless you have insurance. My
point is if they are going to be good neighbors like that and welcome
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people from the neighborhood coming in, I think that is a good thing. And
I think that is what we should find out. If they are going to fit in with the
neighborhood and be accepting to people coming in like that.
Champion: Steve, I don't think we are-
Lehman: I think that is business practice that has nothing to do with this.
Champion: That is business practices and-
Kanner: Well I would like to find out.
Champion: -I think if you want to solve those problems you should be running for
congress.
Kanner: What?
Champion: If you are going to solve those problems you should be running for
congress.
Kanner: Well, actually Connie, I think it is our obligation to look at some of those
issues and I think this is very relevant.
Champion: I don't think it is anybody in town who would say that Mercy is not a good
neighbor and not a caring neighbor. And I know, as a matter-of-fact, that
they are good neighbors to people without insurance and without money.
I think to ask them that question at a public meeting is ridiculous.
Dilkes: Mr. Mayor, this is not a land use issue and it is not appropriate for this
discussion.
Lehman: Thank you.
Kanner: I don't understand why this is not appropriate for discussion if we are
talking, Mr. Mayor, if we are talking again about usage. As we have
shown, it is not a matter of or necessarily the size of the building, it is a
matter of how it interacts with the neighborhood and the office size and so
I think it is appropriate to see how they are going to interact with
neighbors. I think to base my decision I need to hear some of that
information and I would appreciate the ability to really ask those questions
and give them the opportunity to answer. Of course, they don't have to
answer any of those questions that they don't like.
O'Donnell: That is why we rely on our City Attorney to guide us to what is
appropriate and what is not. And I, you know, I think we have to follow
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this (can't hear) right now and she has just said that it is not appropriate to
discuss at this time.
Lehman: Do we have other questions?
Champion: I had one concern. One of my concerns was whether there was too much
parking, but that has been answered. Do you have any idea what your
future plans will be for the lower level as far as traffic and you probably
don't have any idea.
Whisler: That is undetermined right now. We are very open to talking about other
uses that might blend in with the neighborhood. We can always find a
need for another office use which is of (can't hear) not a patient oriented
but administrative type office use.
Champion: I was just worried about more traffic going in there with all that (can't
hear). I think your building looks wonderful.
Whisler: Thank you.
Lehman: I have- go ahead.
Vanderhoef: I know I had asked when I met with Mr. Gelman and Mr. Reed about
putting retail kinds of activities down in there and their answer to me at
that time was that that was a possibility. Particularly on the southwest
comer of that space. But, they had no intention of putting the medical
practice on the lower of the two levels. Is that still the case?
Whisler: I would say that there are no plans to put medical offices on the lower
level at this time.
Vanderhoef: Would that be an expansion possibility?
Whisler: An expansion possibility for Iowa City Family Practice or just-
Vanderhoef: Or for any medical.
Whisler: I would never want to say absolutely no chance Dee, because I, you know,
it is possible that another medical office could occupy the lower level.
That is certainly not known at this time and not planned at this time.
Lehman: There is a larger question that has been alluded to briefly and I think Karin
talked about it some, I think Steve- I think he's going to get that too- we
talk about historically in many, many neighborhoods have been small one
office doctors offices. And we have seen- and this obviously is a proposal
for a number of offices in one building. My assumption, and that is why I
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am asking you because you are the expert, my assumption is that this has
probably as a matter of economies of scale, quality of care- why is it that
we are seeing consolidation of offices in one building? As opposed to
these little offices scattered around neighborhoods?
Whisler: I think the nature of medicine today and particularly of a family practice is
that there are certainly economies for a small group of physicians to come
together to practice, but there is also the issues of call and, you know,
coverage for one another and so it is quite uncommon for a physician to be
in a solo practice particularly if they admit patients to the hospital etc.
Doctor Parrott happens to be here and if (turns away from mic) if you
want to elaborate on that at all. But I think that is kind of the essence.
Lehman: I think what you are saying is it's just somewhat a quality of care issue as
well.
Whisler: Sure.
Lehman: You've got a better quality of care with a larger facility with more
physicians.
Whisler: That is correct.
Lehman: Other questions from Council?
Champion: None.
Kanner: Yeah, Lynn?
Whisler: Yes.
Kanner: I'll ask again the question that was offered before to Karin about concern
about the regional nature of it. And I was wondering if you could address
that issue.
Whisler: The practice has about- 50 to 60% of the patients in the practice come
from the east neighborhoods. Those zip codes in 55- 52240 and 52245.
The remainder of the patients do come from other areas of the city.
Wilbum: There are similar patterns of small medical practices in, say, like
Coralville. Is that- I am assuming this is like, I think, the family practice
there.
Whisler: This is very similar to Town Square in Coralville.
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Wilbum: Okay, and that's- that both serves the neighborhood and acts as a regional
basis?
Whisler: Correct. That practice is actually very similar. Family Health Center is
also affiliated with Mercy Hospital. It is a very similar practice, a family
practice such as the Iowa City Family Practice.
Wilburn: Okay, maybe you can't answer this but maybe Dr. Parrott in the audience-
that the existing dental practice office there, I am assuming that both
serves the immediate neighborhood and probably the whole community?
Parrott: (can't hear, not at mic)
Lehman: Other questions. Thank you.
Kanner: Then-
Lehman: Oh, I am sorry. Go ahead Steven.
Karmer: It was mentioned from the staff report a suggestion, and this sort of piggy
backs on what Dee was saying before, that a proposed use would be a
childcare center or elder care center and so I was wondering what you
thought of those ideas as possibilities in the space downstairs?
Whisler: That certainly has been suggested and I think we are very open to looking
at any of those types of uses.
Kanner: Would you be proactive in trying to attain something like that in the
space?
Whisler: It- certainly if there was another entity that was interested in looking for
space we would, you know, we would be certainly open to discussing that.
Kanner: But you have no plans to seek them- something along those lines? Seek
that out?
Whisler: Not right now Steven, we don't.
O'Donnell: I think you have done a tremendous job blending this into the
neighborhood. I think it is very unintrusive- the parking. I appreciate you
being here tonight. You have answered all my questions.
Whisler: Thank you. I think Tom Gelman has just a couple of comments.
Lehman: While Tom is coming up here I think it is- as I think Council is aware,
P&Z has recommended denial of this application. At some point during
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the discussion if there are- if there is a feeling among the Council folks
that we might come to a conclusion different than that of the Planning and
Zoning Commission, in fact and agree with the City Staffs
recommendation, it will be necessary that we schedule another meeting
with the Planning and Zoning Commission to discuss it and continue the
hearing. So Tom, you make your presentation and then I think I am going
to poll the Council briefly and see if there is interest in that joint meeting
because we will have to continue the public hearing. Go ahead Tom.
Gelman: Thank you. I will try to be precise. I appreciate everyone's attention and
our opportunity to present further. Excuse me. I would like to make
seven points and then to summarize quickly. The first point I would like
to emphasis is that this is a unique site because it is an underdeveloped site
and underutilized site. It has been a vacant lot for many, many years. It is
the last site on this area to be developed. And it is not coincidental that
that's the case. The reasons for that are the reasons that Steve had
indicated in that it is a difficult site to develop because of the topography
and also because of the fill. And it is a more expensive site to develop.
And it is not the type of site that is going to be readily developable by just
any developer on the property. If we look at the Comprehensive Plan, one
of the things that it encourages us to do [is] "encourage commercial
activity to take place in existing core areas or neighborhood commercial
centers, discourage the proliferation of new major commercial areas".
This plan is consistent with that. It also says, "encourage the creative
reuse of existing commercial sites that are vacant or underutilized". And
this is a vacant underutilized site. And again, I think we are very
consistent with the plan. The Noaheast Planning District document talks
specifically about this type of situation and at First and Rochester and
says, "an opportunity exists to upgrade the center at First and Rochester to
include businesses that serve the needs of surrounding neighborhoods" -
in the plural, not in the singular. And the reason why it states that this is
uniquely located in the apex of two arterial streets and that is the type of
neighborhood commercial area that is to have a bit more intensive
development. And that type is less accessible. Point number two, medical
clinic use is compatible and desirable in a neighborhood commercial area.
If we look at the zoning ordinance, it specifically says under CN-1 zone
that the medical- "the general medical practices are a permitted use".
Also, if we look at the Northeast Planning District plan, it also tells us that
medical clinics are a desirable use in neighborhood commercial areas.
"This neighborhood center should be developed in a main street or town
square design that ensures it compatibility with the surrounding
neighborhood and provides needed goods and services such as small
restaurants, retail shops, offices, a grocery or convenience store, and
dental and medical clinics". Again, a preferred use for neighborhood
commercial areas. The other thing that both of these documents, the
Comprehensive Plan and the Noaheast Planning District document, tell us
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is that a neighborhood commercial area is not a singular concept but
represents a variety of commercial areas that could develop in
neighborhoods, smaller and larger. And that the concept that a
neighborhood commercial area is to serve only the immediate neighbors is
not the concept of the neighborhood commercial zone- I am sorry, is not
the concept of the neighborhood commercial areas as are discussed in the
Noaheast Area Plan and in the Comprehensive Plan. They talk about
different types of neighborhood commercial zones. And one of Iowa
City's newest neighborhood commercial zones, which is along Mormon
Trek, and the way it has been developed is very different then the concept
of the neighborhood commercial zone that one might think is intended.
But in reality, it has multiple concepts. And we believe that the medical
practice fits very well into one of those concepts of what a neighborhood
plan ought to be. Three, the narrow issue here is not- it is essentially 2400
square feet. And that the CN-1 zone is very restrictive in connection with
offices. So that on the one hand it encourages medical clinics, but on the
other hand it restricts the medical clinic to no more than 2400 square feet.
That is the narrow issue here. And what we are asking here is to have an
office to accommodate a fairly small family practice medical clinic of five
doctors, five full-time equivalent doctors, which needs at a minimum
about 10,000 square feet. The provisions of the CN-1 zone are too
restrictive to permit a relatively modest medical clinic. There are also
total square foot issues- total square footage issues that affect this project
as well. There is a 15% limit for first floor square footage and a 30% limit
for total square footage of office space in a CN-1 zone. The reality is, if
this building that Mercy is intending to build were used totally for office
space, within the total CN-1 zone, it would exceed the office limit by only
8%. And if portions of the building are not used for office but might be
used for retail or other permitted uses within a CN-1 or CO-1 zone then
we may not even be 8% over the maximum office utilization of the zone.
So it is a very small percentage. Four, the First and Rochester commercial
area is not intended- is not intended to service the needs for potential
development in the noaheast district. And I think that that is a
misconception. Again, I want to refer us to the Comprehensive Plan and it
discusses again specifically this area and what it is intended- and how it is
intended to develop in the future. Bear with me while I read just a short
paragraph that talks about these issues. "The north side of the Central
Plam~ing District is served by a neighborhood commercial area at the
intersection of Dodge and Church Street. The northeast portion of the
Central Planning District is serviced by a neighborhood commercial
district located at the intersection of First Avenue and Rochester". The
southeast portion- it describes where it is serviced and then it talks about
the south portion and how it is serviced. The last sentence says, "No
additional neighborhood commercial areas are necessary to serve the
planning district. However, redevelopment may occur in existing older
neighborhood commercial areas". And in fact, if we look at the northeast
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area plan, it is very clear that within that district and that area there are
intended neighborhood commercial areas that are part of this plan. And so
the neighborhood residential development that is to occur in this district
are not to be serviced principally by First and Rochester, but are in fact to
be serviced by neighborhood commercial areas of varying sizes that are
planned as part of the development of this area. Five, the conditional
zoning agreement. One thing that I would like the Council to understand
[is] that a conditional zoning agreement has already been signed and
entered into. Now, it is of course contingent upon the Council approving
the rezoning. But if in fact it is rezoned then there is already a conditional
zoning agreement in place that helps to assure that the design
considerations that were already shown to you are in fact enforceable.
Six, I hesitate to do this but I think I will. I want to talk just briefly about
public reaction to this proposal. As required, Mercy gave notice to the
neighbors for a neighborhood meeting. It was a relatively low attendance
but there were four or five- five Lynn? About five neighbors who came
and as good neighbors typically do, they had questions. And their
questions had to do with traffic and design and landscaping and they were
curious. And those things- I hope I am not overstating the case- but those
neighbors had their questions answered and were comfortable with the
nature of the project and the nature of the development that Mercy was
proposing. We have also received feedback from many individuals
offering to be of assistance to us. I hope some of those individuals have
talked to you Councilors personally. They have all been encouraging
Mercy to proceed with the project indicating it was a very great
community need and a very good project for that particular location. The
other thing I would point out, and again I wish this was wood, is that we
have not had any public objection whatsoever. We have had some public
comment that has favorable but no public objection whatsoever. I hope
that is an indicator that the neighborhood actually feels very comfortable
at with this project. I cannot remember a time where there was a proposal
to upzone an area where there was not public objection. Finally, this is
basically a very sound, very good, and very beneficial project. It is
compatible with the neighborhood and the neighborhood commercial
concept. It is an attractive design which is compatible with the residential
character of some portions of this area. It is good use of an underutilized
space. It a less intensive use of the space then the CN-1 would permit. It
would- less traffic will be generated than some uses in the CN-1 would
generate. It is anticipated that about 10 to 15 cars per hour would be
generated, much less than the type of traffic that would be generated by
other types of commercial establishments. The office will have fewer
hours of operation than other permitted uses would in that zone. It will
benefit the viability of the small businesses that are presently located in
that commercial area. It will benefit the surrounding neighborhoods and
the entire eastside neighborhoods with convenient access to primary
medical care. Mercy Hospital and Mercy Services has a good track record
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as being a good neighbor. They will landscape the property well. They
will maintain the property well. And they will be a good neighbor to those
people who live in that area. Mercy Services' Coralville office is one of
the anchors of Town Square in Coralville which is in fact a neighborhood
commercial area. And it has been a very good anchor to that property.
The office there is almost exactly the same configuration. The exterior
design will be different but the office configuration and size is almost
exactly the same as the office that would be placed in this neighborhood
commercial area. So, this is not an issue about the type of use because we
know that the medical office use is permitted and encouraged in this type
of zone. Nor [is it about] the density of development because we know
that this development is not as dense as other permitted development
could be in the zone. It is not an issue of traffic because the traffic
generated here through design considerations and through the type of
practice will not- will be less than other types of uses. The design issues
have been resolved. The compatibility with the neighborhood, I hope, has
been demonstrated. And the preservation for future development is really
not an issue for this particular lot. It is an issue for how the whole
noaheast area develops. This is an issue of whether it is appropriate to
accommodate a request to permit a reasonable sized, 10,000 square foot,
primary care office in a neighborhood commercial area. The CN-1 s
recognize the need to accommodate from time to time to permit beneficial
uses to locate in a neighborhood commercial area. For example, the Cn- 1
regulations permit a 20- I am sorry- a 30,000 to 40,000 square foot
grocery store because they recognize the fact that you will not have a
grocery store unless you permit at least a 30,000 or 40,000 square foot
grocery store. I think we need to be realistic here and understand that if
we want to encourage a medical practice we have to have regulations that
will permit a medical practice. And 2400 square feet will not permit a
medical practice in this area. So that really the narrow question about
whether we can reasonably accommodate the needs of the community and
the needs of the neighborhood to have primary medical care in an area that
is accessible. So, the only way we can do that at this stage or the reason
why you have asked for a rezoning to CO-1 is because within that zone we
can accommodate a 10,000 square foot medical office. I would be happy
to answer any other questions that you may have about this. And we
appreciate your time a lot and all you consideration on this. Any other
questions? Thank you.
Lehman: Are there- is there interest on the part of the Council to get a meeting with
Planning and Zoning Commission to discuss-
Dilkes: Mr. Mayor, you may want to make sure there is no further public
comment.
Lehman: Oh I will (can't hear). Is there interest?
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Pfab: Okay, I will just go over the reason again. I am just- it is floating around
in my head and I need (can't hear).
Lehman: If we chose to accept the recommendation of the Planning and Zoning
Commission this goes no further. We will be denying the request. City
staff is requesting that- or is recommending that the application be
approved. If we chose to accept the recommendation from the City Staff
that would be in contradiction to the recommendation from the Planning
and Zoning Commission. We are required if we overrule that commission
to meet with them in a joint meeting to (can't hear).
Dilkes: Mr. Mayor? I am sorry, I hate to be a stickler here but it seems
appropriate to me for you to wait to make that decision until you have
heard from anybody who wishes to speak. And then it would be
appropriate to make that call.
Lehman: Is there further discussions?
Knapp: I am not even here for this issue but I did build two of these medical
clinics in Cedar Rapids about 7500 square feet a piece and they work very
well. And you need a larger medical clinic than 2400 square feet because
you need laboratory space, you need a possibility of x-ray space, you need
other things besides just doctors offices if you really want to give full
medical care and that would be the purpose of a neighborhood medical
clinic- would be able to give full medical care. Why would they want to
go there and then have to go someplace else for laboratory work, go
someplace else for an x-ray or do something like that? A suggested use
and just a thought because I have looked at this site for years and years
and I thought the site would make a wonderful site for a youth recreation
area because of Regina and the proximity to City High and all the other
schools. But, cardiac rehabilitation on the lower level might be a
consideration. Any kind of rehabilitation on the lower level because you
have the doctors right there, you have the facilities right there, and it just
makes sense to me that it would follow hand in hand and that would be a
good use for it. and there are a lot of elderly people in that neighborhood
and there is a lot of people that have had cardiac problems and other
problems so you might want to consider that. But being from living in
that area all of my life I think that is a wonderful idea for it and I am all
for it. Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you.
Karr: Mr. Mayor, could I have the gentleman's name?
Lehman: Could you give your name. I am sorry- we need your name.
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Knapp: Pardon me? I thought everybody knew me. Jim Knapp. I will sign in
later when we talk about the Englert.
Lehman: Okay, thanks Jim.
Walters: I've got a sticker.
Lehman: Okay.
Walters: Jim Walters, 1033 E Washington. I think Tom Gelman is in error when he
says that no one has objected to this rezoning. I think actually he is in
grievous error because 7 people- the 7 people that you entrusted to do you
screening for you objected to it and they objected unanimously to this
rezoning voting zero to seven against. I am sure they had their reasons
and I think you should find out and consult with them and find out what
their reasons where. I have tried to listen to the presentations that Karin
made last night and the presentations that were made this evening and try
to, I think, zoning is very arcane to me and I am far from being an expert
in these matters so I have tried to understand the issues of the rezoning. I
don't think they are issues of the site, the siting. I don't think they are
issues of the building. But possibly zoning- your zoning commission has
some of those. If I was to look at the problems that I see in granting this
rezoning I think they revolve entirely around traffic. And the reason being
that as has been alluded to is that you're bringing in a clinic that is going
to bring 50%- half its customers, half the people that use this clinic are
going to be coming from outside the neighborhood. And let's not talk-
when we talk about this intersection we are talking about the confluence of
a number of neighborhoods. And we can call all of those the
neighborhood and we are still talking about people, 50% of the people
who use this clinic coming from outside of those neighborhoods. Do we
have the streets that are capable of sustaining that kind of traffic? Well,
possibly- I don't know. First Avenue to me, when I drive up and down
First Avenue, is not the kind of street that you want to see a lot of traffic
additions on. Certainly not a lot of traffic additions from outside of the
neighborhood. If and when, and it is in your capital improvement plan-
you do this First Avenue extension, you are asking for a lot of trouble on
this street and you are asking for trouble all up and down the entire length
of First Avenue. So, I think you need to factor all that in when you talk
about what you are doing in this area and when you open, when you
proceed with that road expansion. And the question I think you should ask
yourselves when- is do we have a lack of places anywhere else in the City
for this kind of a zoning? Is there any lack of places in the community
under existing zoning regulations without having to do this jujitsu of
changing our zoning and overruling your commission to come up with a
place to locate this. I can't see that we have any lack of spaces and spaces
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that are probably infinitely more suitable for bringing in this kind of- this
breakdown of traffic between neighborhoods and between outside people.
Sycamore Mall comes to mind right off. We have got all kinds of empty
space down there. We've got a Randall's store down there that represents
virtually the exact square footage that we are being told about here that sat
idle for how many years now? And I don't know why Mercy didn't go
down and take a look there. But I really- I really implore you not to
cavalierly go over the decision that one of your commissions has given
you on a unanimous vote. This is the kind of a thing that makes people
very, very unwilling to serve on commissions. When they do their work,
when they make a decision and when it comes to Council and you
overrule it. Thank you.
Lehman: Jim, just for your information the Council would not overrule Planning
and Zoning without first meeting with them.
Walters: I know.
Lehman: Okay. Other public discussion?
Parrott: Let me get my sticker on here. I am Dick Parrott. I live about half a mile
from this area and I have occupied a dental office that you have seen on
the presentation in this area for seven years almost. It is an important area.
I would like to see it developed well and I think that there is a lot of
agreement that this is a high quality project that will fit into the area. It
won't be- distract from the residential quality of this area. I think it is
important to bring medical care closer to the neighborhoods. And back
when the Comprehensive Plan came into action, I think, was around 1983.
I think it restricted a lot of practices from being able to be in a very
residential area which at that time they could be. I built a dental office in
a strictly residential zone and it was allowed and I knew of several
medical practitioners that wanted to do the same and as the zoning
changed the Comprehensive Plan made it more difficult. And I think a
neighborhood zone is a suitable place for a medical practice. My dental
practice draws highly on this area and as I occupy this area longer I draw
more and more patients from the immediate area. And that is, I think, the
reality of any building that is visible and connects with the neighborhood
the way this would. It is also part of any dental practice or medical
practice that you are going to grow with referrals and you are going to
have people come in from out of the immediate neighborhood. And I
think any medical facility is going to experience an inflow from outside of
the neighborhood and that is just the nature of medical care and the way
referrals happen from people that work with other people in different parts
of the city. But I think it is a key factor to do get the medical care out into
the neighborhoods. I thi~Lk it is a benefit. Medical needs pop up in our
daily lives and it happens often and I think there is a psychological benefit
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of connecting with the neighborhood in a very visible way. And a
convenience benefit too. It is a plan that I think will not really impact the
traffic in a great way. I see about 40 patients a day. You know, the traffic
flow, talking about a five medical doctor clinic has 10 to 15 per hour, is
not a huge impact on the area. We have lost Hy-Vee which was drawing
about 500 people a day into that immediate zone and Drugtown draws
many fewer. Right now, I know Hy-Vee where they are located is
drawing a thousand people a day into that area off of First Avenue. I think
First Avenue is a critical thing and I live on it and work on it- or live by it
and work on it and I hope it does extend to the north. And I know we
need that kind of an artery there that serves the area. And I hope you all
look positively on this plan because I think there is some benefits to the
local people and to the businesses that are there. There is a lot of retail
space available. It has struggled. I have seen five businesses come and go
into the buildings in that area and have difficulty and they were zoned
properly for the area. I think a clinic like this is just a positive addition. It
will being more people into that immediate CN-1 zone and service well.
Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you.
Wilbum: I wonder while we have the people here- the question came up about
Mercy and their selection of other designated CN-1 zoned sites. Would
the Mercy people care to comment on that or not?
Kanner: You mean CO?
Wilburn: I am sorry. The original, what it is currently zoned.
Gelman: I will try to. Mercy has been looking now for, seriously, for about 3 to 4
years. Is that right Bill? But the total period of time- almost 8 years for a
suitable site to expand the office. But the reason why this problem is
created is because in an existing office on the eastside is about 3500
square feet and it is not adequate. And it is not adequate to grow the
practice to five full-time doctors and it is not adequate to properly service
the patients. And they have been looking for some time, and they are
looking for a site that- their criteria is a site that is accessible. And there
are some zoning that is available but the sites are very much on the
periphery of the eastside. That is not consistent with the Comprehensive
Plan provisions that I just read to you nor is it consistent with the way in
which they would like to practice medicine and have it readily accessible
to the patients- or more accessible to the patients. Putting a site for an
office on the perimeter of the town inconveniences almost everyone who
has to access the site. And the benefit of this particular site is it is
relatively close to the existing site. It is on two arterial streets and it is
also on the city's bus route, which is an important element of access.
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There were other sites that were looked at that were not served by the bus
service and they were not acceptable for that reason as well as possibly
others. The other issues here have to do with the availability of property,
whether it is for sale. They would like to develop their own site and own
their own site. And you know, we can talk about the need to redevelop
Sycamore Mall area and redevelop Towncrest and redevelop other areas
but (changed tapes) and questions that are unanswered. You know, are
they developable? Can they be condominiumized? Are small portions for
sale? And there are really more questions then can be reasonable
answered in a short period of time. But, again, Mercy has been looking at
almost eight years to find a suitable site. This site is suitable. The only
reason why it wasn't selected earlier was because the zoning didn't permit
the size of the office building. And it was finally determined that because
of the other considerations that we've mentioned that it was worth trying
to utilize this site in this way. The other thing that I would point out is this
is not- this is a form ofredevelopment. This commercial area is struggling
a bit. It needs some development and it needs it sooner rather than later.
And it is no different from the other sites that may require some
development on the east side. It is no different. The only difference here
is that this is a CN-1 zone rather than CO-1 zone. And I know that the
doctors who practice in this clinic would very much prefer to have the
clinic in a near neighborhood area rather than to have it in a strictly
commercial area. Is that responsive at all?
Wilburn: I just wanted to- the question was raised so I, while we had a key player
and the full Council here I wanted to make sure there were opportunities
to see what your thoughts were.
Gelman: And I appreciate that because that was an issue that Planning and Zoning
discussed and I know that you are likely to meet with them and I hope that
you will. bd~d I think that is a concern that was expressed was Mercy's
role in the redevelopment of these other properties. And I thought that
was- I think it is an appropriate issue but I think you need to be practical
and realistic about that and I think you also have to look at Mercy's role in
redeveloping this particular neighborhood commercial site and trying to
make it viable while at the same time providing a very accessible site for
the people who are now served by a clinic.
Wilburn: Since we had staff introduce to us would it also- would it be appropriate
for me to ask, uh, the question came up also about traffic as a concern and
the redesign that happened with this. Could we have Karin address- hi,
Karin. The comment came up about this project in terms of traffic with
First Avenue going through and without it. Was that part of the
consideration? Do you know what I am getting at? If First Avenue goes
through, does this project seem to still address concerns about traffic? If
First Avenue does not go through, the same question- does it seem to... ?
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Franklin: The traffic was not an issue with the Staff or with the Planning and Zoning
Commission.
Wilburn: Okay, that was my question.
Franklin: Because this property is zoned for commercial development it could
happen regardless of whether it is the CO-1 or the CN-1. The issue that
comes into play which is very difficult to quantify, is exactly how much of
this traffic would be there just for this office use? As opposed to if it were
the neighborhood commercial uses? And that's always really tough. Even
though we talk about neighborhood commercial as serving the
neighborhoods we know that the businesses that are in neighborhood
commercial do not function solely because of what is in the
neighborhoods at the densities that we build in Iowa City. Because you
have to have some other traffic coming in that is going to, uh, support
those businesses. Usually and why we put them on arterials is because
there is often traffic that is passing by just because of the function of the
arterial that then will patronize the businesses. So, the traffic was not a
big issue. I think one of the Commission members had concern about that
but it was not a determinative issue for the Commission or the Staff. Does
that answer your question?
Wilbum: Thank you. Yes, it does. When we speak with Planning and Zoning I, it
seems to me and Dee had brought this up last night, that at some point we
need to have a conversation with them about the general philosophy about
this neighborhood commercial zoning.
Lehman: Yeah, I think- and that is another issue.
Wilburn: Yeah.
Vanderhoef: That is and-
Lehman: Is there anyone who hasn't- has a new point to make. This meeting is
going well into the night, we've got a long ways to go. In the interest of
saving the public time and us if you have something new we would be
glad to hear it. If not, is there interest on the part of the Council to meet
with Planning and Zoning Commission?
Champion: Definitely.
Vanderhoef: Definitely.
Lehman: Is there a motion to-
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Vanderhoef: I will move that.
Lehman: Well, I think Karin, you need to tell us what- when would we like to meet
with them. Do we know what time? Or whatever.
Franklin: We spoke with the Commission about this. My understanding is they
have a preference to meet with the Council on March 6th. And given your
agenda on February 14th that probably would be a good idea anyway.
Because you have got a big agenda on the 14th.
Lehman: Are we going to continue this to February 15th.9
Franklin: Urn, you have two choices. You can continue to February 15th Or you can
give first consideration on February 15th. Remember that your first
consideration is basically saying we are open enough to this to continue on
considering it to a second consideration. The actual vote on a zoning issue
like this is not until your third vote which is the pass and adopt.
Lehman: Right.
Franklin: So, you can- technically you can vote on the 15th. You can change your
vote on March 7th if you chose to. Anytime at which you vote something
down it becomes dead.
Lehman: Right.
Franklin: But as long as you are voting affirmatively it continues.
Champion: If this is going to pass I am sure Mercy would like to get going on this and
so I think it would be a good idea if we did have the first reading on the
next City Council meeting.
Lehman: The motion is do we want to continue this to February 15th? Did you
make that motion?
Dilkes: Not the public hearing to February 15th.
Lehman: I am sorry, February 15.
???: That was a motion, I guess.
???: No.
Lehman: Is that what we moved?
Vanderhoef: Well, we were talking about meeting with P&Z.
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Lehman: We need to continue the public hearing and then set the meeting.
Vanderhoef: Right, that is fine.
Lehman: Now, do we have a motion to continue to February 15th?
Vanderhoef: That I move.
O'Donnell: I will second it.
Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by O'Donnell.
Atkins: Ernie or Eleanor, I had a question. You can't vote until you close the
hearing can you?
Dilkes: We need to get- we need to get the public hearing continued to a date after
which we meet with Planning and Zoning. Correct?
Franklin: Not necessarily.
Lehman: Not according to Karin. You don't have to.
Dilkes: Well, I thought it was our intention not to close the public hearing until the
meeting with Planning and Zoning.
Franklin: That is not absolutely necessary. In fact, Planning and Zoning would
appreciate a vote of the City Council before they have the consultation to
know exactly where the Council stands.
Lehman: The only difficulties I have with that is that once we have closed the
public hearing it becomes very difficult, not impossible, but- because the
public can obviously comment at the second or third reading.
Franklin: If you believe that you want to take more public input and you are going
to get additional information with that public input then continue your
public hearing.
Champion: We could close it and then set a new public hearing.
Franklin: That would be quite cumbersome.
Vanderhoef: But we could continue it and have first vote on the same night.
Lehman: Yes, that-
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Franklin: Yes, you could. Yes you could. I mean, really what we are talking about
here is the input- whether you are going to get more public input. If you
want to continue to get more public input that is public, not Planning and
Zoning, continue the public hearing if you think that that is prudent. But if
what you are concerned about is the input that you are going to get from
the Planning and Zoning Commission you do not need to continue the
public hearing to get input from the Commission.
Lehman: I hear you.
Wilburn: My concern is to talk with Planning and Zoning and so I think we have
received a lot of information from the public.
Champion: I think we have to.
Vanderhoef: We have, however, the one thing that does come up out of all of that is
that if new information comes out of Planning and Zoning and we have
something that we want to put out it doesn't give the public an opportunity
to respond to us.
Champion: (can't hear)
Lehman: Except they can respond at any time we take up an item on the agenda,
whether it is first, second or third consideration. They are invited to
speak.
Vanderho ef: Whether you call it a public hearing or not.
Lehman: Yeah.
Vanderhoef: Okay.
Lehman: All in favor of continuing the public hearing to-
Karr: I am sorry, do we have a motion?
Lehman: Yes, Vanderhoef [and] seconded by O'Donnell.
Karr: And what is it?
Lehman: To continue the public hearing to February 15th.
Karr: Thank you.
O'Donnell: It is getting late.
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Lehman: Are you getting..?
Karr: I am.
Champion: We are all going to get punchy.
Letunan: The tape recorder is tired. All in favor say aye.
Ayes. (can't hear)
Lehman: Opposed?
Pfab: No.
Champion: No. You don't want to continue public hearing.
Pfab: No wait- restate the motion again.
Lehman: The motion is to continue the public hearing to the 15th of February.
Pfab: I am, okay- I am..
Wilbum: We just talked about-
Champion: Not having- of closing it.
Wilbum: Of closing it, talking to (can't hear) so we can talk to Planning and
Zoning.
Champion: So we would vote no.
Wilburn: And you just said-
Lehman: Close, open it- whatever we want to do guys.
O'Donnell: Let's do one of them.
Wilburn: We just talked about closing it, talking to Planning and Zoning and having
first consideration on the 15th. You yourself, Mr. Mayor, said we can on
second and third consideration we can hear from the public. It is just not
called a heating.
Champion: So we want to vote against her motion.
Wilburn: So we want to vote against this.
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Lehman: If we- is everyone comfortable with the amount of public input that we
have had on this?
Champion: Yes.
O'Donnell: I am comfortable.
Lehman: Alright, we are going to vote again. All in favor of continuing the public
hearing say aye.
Pfab: Aye.
Lehman: All opposed to continuing the public hearing say aye.
All except Pfab: Aye.
Lehman: The public hearing is closed. Thank you. And we are going to take five.
Karr: To we have a motion to accept correspondence?
Vanderhoef: So moved.
O'Donnell: Second.
Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by O'Donnell. All in favor?
Kanner: What is? Hold it- what is the correspondence we are accepting?
Karr: From Dick Parrott. [From] Dick Parrott that you already have.
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ITEM NO. 6d PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMEDING THE
SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY (OSA-8) CONDITIONAL ZONING
AGREEMENT TO ALLOW A DRIVEWAY ACCESS ONTO
FOSTER ROAD FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 500 FOSTER
ROAD. (REZ99-0016).
Lehman: Karin would you like to bring us up to speed as to what this is exactly?
And what the options are.
Franklin: Okay, this is the issue about the retention or closure or the driveway at the
Louis property on Foster Road. And basically the options before the
Council right now are the ordinance that was in your packets originally,
which would allow the driveway to stay open indefinitely. That is that it
would change the conditional zoning agreement that was originally signed
and remove that stipulation from the conditional zoning agreement. The
second option is to leave the driveway open as long as the Louises live in
their residence and have an escrow account for construction of the
driveway at such time as- construction of an alternative driveway- at such
time as they move. And the third option is to allow the existing driveway
to remain until development starts occurring to the west and have an
escrow account for construction of the alternative driveway and closing of
the existing driveway when development occurs to the west. Those are
the three options. For the second two you will need to continue the public
hearing. We will need to get a revised and signed conditional zoning
agreement to do either of those options.
Lehman: And if we chose either of the second two- the Planning and Zoning
Commission denied the option of allowing the driveway to continue at all.
So if we were to not agree with Planning and Zoning we would again need
to set up a meeting with Planning and Zoning.
Franklin: Yes, at that point you could request consultation with the Commission and
they could decide whether they wish to go along with that or not.
Dilkes: Karin, I am sorry- one and two are both signed.
Franklin: Oh, they are. I am sorry. Okay.
Dilkes: One and two are both signed.
Lehman: But the third option-?
Franklin: The third option relating to development to the west is not drafted or
signed and that would require the, urn, continuation of the public hearing.
Vanderhoef: Karin?
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Lehman: But- I am sorry..
Vanderhoef: Uh, option 3.
Franklin: Yes?
Vanderhoef: Depending on development to the west.
Franklin: Yes.
Vanderhoef: How would that determination be made and by whom?
Franklin: I don't know right now.
Vanderhoef: Okay.
Franklin: That is one thing we would have to work on to have some way in which
we empirically could know when that point in time was. Whether it was, I
mean, if the issue is because we want to have this driveway closed when
the traffic is on the street it could be based on traffic counts. I don't know
that it would make much sense to base it on just an application for
development to the west or a subdivision because the building may not
take place for some time. So, I think what we would need to do if you
wish to consider that option is to think about a practical and as easy as
possible way make a determination as to when the point in time would be
that the driveway would close. And I just can't tell you that right now
because I haven't it through enough.
Vanderhoef: Okay, thanks.
Lehman: Okay. Public hearing is over.
Frey: Good evening, Mr. Mayor and City Council Members. My name is
Kirsten Frey and I am an attorney and I represent a H & O, LC applicant
on this rezoning application. With me here tonight is Bud Louis who is
the co-applicant on that application. I won't take a lot of your time
because I know you have read our application and you are familiar with
the application. What I would like to do is just briefly address a couple of
the points that were made in the City Staff report and then answer any
questions that you have so that I can be responsive to any of your
concerns. I think first of all, the first concern that was raised in the City
Staff report that I would like to address is that this request is necessitated
by poor planning on our part. I think both Bud Louis and my client would
acknowledge that they were aware of this condition when the conditional
zoning was signed. And we are not here saying "Oops, this condition
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caught us by surprise, we weren't aware of it". I think what did happen
here though is that there were some things that weren't fully planned and
developed at the time that this conditional zoning agreement was reached
in that the exact elevation of Louis place had not yet been determined, the
exact elevation of Foster Road as it was improved has not yet been
determined. So there were some things that, some variables, that were not
yet fully solidified at the time the conditional zoning agreement was
signed which made it difficult to anticipate the problems that we would
encounter. I think the second comment that I would like to address that
the City Staff made was that, um, that their concern about the piece that
the request for the amendment of the conditional zoning agreement will
result in developers or subdividers agreeing to conditions during the
approval process and then coming back in and asking you to re-look at
that. And I would like to respond to that concern briefly and I think- I
certainly understand the City's position with respect to that issue. My
response would be, however, is that we are not allowed to disregard those
conditions because we want to. If we want the conditional amendment, or
the conditional zoning agreement, to be amended we need to reappear
before the Council and ask the Council to amend that conditional zoning
agreement. And each application or each request for rezoning, I think, is
to be considered on its own merits. And so I don't think that we need to
be too concerned about the willy nilly agreeing to conditions we have no
intent of honoring because you certainly have no guarantee that that
conditional zoning agreement will be amended at a later time. And I think
it would be imprudent to suggest that we should never re-look at
agreements we made earlier because we have already looked at that issue
and even though that there are circumstances we didn't contemplate or
situations which we didn't fully appreciate at that time, because we have
made the decision we are not going to re-look at that. I think that that is
not a wise course for the Council to take. In response to the various
options that we have- that are before the City Council today- obviously the
applicants submitted the application requesting the removal of the
condition entirely. When we met with the City Staff they- or the Planning
and Zoning Commission, excuse me- they did amend the application or
the motion to require that the driveway only be allowed to continue to
exist for as long as Bud and Betty Louis live in their home and that an
escrow account be established once they are no longer- to pay for the
replacement of that driveway- once they are no longer living in their
home. And we would certainly agree that that is a better solution than
what currently exists. So what we have done with the City Staff at this
point is sign alternative conditional zoning agreements for the City
Council to consider and would ask that you view them distinctly. Finally,
you do have a couple of photographs with your, um, with your application.
And I noticed that they weren't very good. So I brought a second set of
real pictures as opposed to the photocopies so that they might be easier to
see. And if I could provide those to the City Clerk then you could have
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them (can't hear). Are there any questions for me? Okay. Thank you
very much for your time. I believe Bud Louis would like to speak with
you briefly.
Louis: Bud Louis. I carry a lot of weight around Iowa City. No, I know that this-
I will take a wild guess here- I think you would like us to be pretty brief
tonight with all of this coming up so I have got just a few points to make.
And I am going to sound like I am repeating something that she just said.
First of all, my first point is that yes we do realize that a year ago we
agreed that when Betty and I were through with the road or when Foster
Road development required us to close it, why we would be happy to do
that. Since that time though, there has been a little surprise that I don't
think either the City or Mike Hodge knew, and that was how deep Louis
Way is coming in. In fact, the Hodge had it paved at one time and then
the City came and broke that pavement and lower it even more. So if you
will notice in my letter to the City I said that right now I can temporarily
get out on the road to the noah because the buildings haven't been
finished yet. But in the spring when those buildings go in, if my driveway
isn't open, I either buy a helicopter or jump over the wall with the car.
And that will only work about once. Now, what we were going to do to
make a driveway out there- you are going to have to tear up quite a bit of
the backyard. At one minor point it goes through the #### place of 49
years of pets, but that is minor. But, you have got to take out more of that
8 foot wall than just the driveway. You are going to have to take out some
on either side so it can slant in. And it is really going to be a mess going
down. I imagine we will eventually have to do that if they eventually
close it. But, I have been noticing coming out of the new way recently- it
is almost more dangerous because cars can't see us on a curve and Betty
said tonight that I think coming out of our driveway is safer yet. And she
and I are the only using that driveway and we have used it 49 years. But
the whole job has been a bunch of surprises. I went out the other day and
they had taken out 60 feet of the stone wall to the west of the driveway
that- I didn't know we was going to lose that stone wall that was put in 10
years before the Civil War and in one day they dozed it down into the
ditch and filled it up. I don't know- it was only a short time ago that we
were required to black top that driveway. $12,000 to do all of the black
topping in there so that is kind of scary to know we are going to lose that
in the act too. But, do you have any questions to ask me about this? Do I
understand then that this goes now for another hearing? The other- I am
kind of hard of hearing and the other night at Planning and Zoning I
wasn't sure what they did but at one time they voted in unanimously that
Betty and I could stay there as long as we lived there and-
Lehman: I don't thimk that is right Bud.
Louis: How's that?
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Lehman: I don't think they passed that.
Louis: Well, they first did and then they turned around and voted another one 4 to
3 cutting- it looked to me like that was to throw it on the shoulders of you
people.
Lehman: No, I think the vote was 4 to 3 against-
Louis: Yeah, it was 4 to 3.
Lehman: -against allowing you to use the driveway. According to their minutes
which we all received.
Louis: Okay, well that is probably because my hearing is a little bit bad.
Champion: We all tend to hear what we want to hear.
Louis: I beg your pardon?
Champion: Connie, I really didn't hear you.
Lehman: It is alright Bud.
Kanner: Bud?
Louis: Yes sir.
Kanner: I have a question for you. Was the land that is now, um, being developed-
that was your land previous to that?
Louis: Yes, uh-huh. We moved there in 1951 and we had 13 acres. And it has
gradually been developed and on the last 5 ½ acres Mike Hodge and Dean
Oakes built that new development. If you drive out it is really a beautiful
development and there is 2 more buildings yet to go in. Betty and I are
left now with ¼ of an acre. And it is actually part of the condominium so
that the zoning would go through- it must have been made part of the
condominium.
Kmmer: And you freely entered into an agreement about that- selling off that land?
Louis: I beg your pardon?
Kanner: You freely entered into an agreement into selling off your land for that
development? And that lead to the conditionally- conditional zoning
agreement. Correct?
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Louis: Whatever that was last year that we all agreed on. Yeah.
Kanner: Okay, thank you.
Lehman: Other questions of Mr. Louis?
Louis: Well good. I am going to get to go early tonight and get home and see
M.A.S.H. You guys are going to stay some more or (can't hear) to
Englert. Anything else?
Lehman: Does any one else wish to speak to this? Okay.
Louis: Okay. Thank you very much.
O'Donnell: Thanks Bud.
Lelunan: Alright, as Karin alluded to, we have three options. One, we can agree
with the Planning and Zoning Commission [and] deny any access through
this existing driveway. That would be consistent with their
recommendation. If we chose either of the other two we must continue the
public hearing and consult with the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Uh, comment from Council?
O'Donnell: You know, in the two years that I have been on the Council we have never
done this before with Planning and Zoning- the commission. Or at least in
my two years, but twice tonight I feel like we should go back and speak
with them. This is close enough- it's, uh, it's turned down 3-4. I believe
we should go back and talk to them. I would like to see Mr. Louis be able
to use that driveway until we can just, by shutting it down with traffic by
the Peninsula development.
Champion: Are you making a motion?
Lehman: Well, what I think we need to do if there is concurrence on the Council
that we would like to meet with the Planning and Zoning Commission and
discuss this we then need to continue the public hearing. Wait, yes we do.
Dilkes: I think if you want to keep option number 3 open you need to continue the
public hearing.
Lehman: We have to. Well, let's discuss the options. First of all, the
recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission is to deny
any access and require that Mr. Louis close the driveway as was required
by the conditional zoning agreement. Is there discussion relative to that?
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Champion: What my discussion would be on that that I think they had valid reasons
for doing that. I don't have any problem with their reasons. I like the
third option because if the idea of closing the access was for safety, as
long as there is not a lot of traffic on that road that safety is not an issue
until that traffic is there. I would like to see us drop option one and go to
option 2- 3.
Vanderhoef: 3. I agree with that Connie. I can go that far to allow it until the safety
factor kicks in and then it is important to close it up because we are
building an arterial street and our comprehensive plan tells us that we need
to limit the number of accesses onto an arterial street.
Champion: I think that is fight and I also think that Bud and Betty did develop this
land, (can't hear) sold or developed where they were involved in it, they
knew the problem with the traffic, but to close that driveway now when
there is no development and it may be several years down the line before
there is enough development to even create any traffic on that street
besides deer. And I am willing to give them that.
O'Donnell: You had to mention deer.
Lehman: Oh, dear.
Pfab: Okay, what is the trigger point going to be when- are we going to come up
for more Council time and-?
Champion: Staff would do that.
Lehman: Staff would determine at what point traffic would be sufficient to require
that the other access road be built and this access be discontinued.
Pfab: Is that part of the- of this?
Lehman: It hasn't even been drawn up yet.
Vanderhoef: That was the question.
Lehman: It is something that would have to be drawn.
Pfab: Okay. And depending on how that was drawn up I wouldn't have no
objection to it.
O'Donnell: That is four.
Kanner: I think there was a compelling reason that the zoning agreement was
originally reached and I don't think that has changed significantly. And I
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think there will be, um, increased traffic there now with construction
going on in that area and hopefully getting the Peninsula project started.
So I think the compelling reason is still there and I think the only reasons
that we should overtum a zoning agreement, especially against the wishes
of Planning and Zoning, is if there is undue economic hardship and undue
environmental hardship. So I would recommend that we uphold the
Planning and Zoning decision.
Lehman: I agree with you that there was a compelling reason that that access was
required in the conditional zoning agreement and that compelling reason
was one of safety. And I do believe that- I certainly can go along with
allowing that driveway to be used until the safety- until that compelling
reason becomes a reality I have no problem with them using the access
personally.
O'Donnell: That is fine. Let' s move forward.
Lehman: Well, we need a motion to continue the public hearing.
Vanderhoef: So moved.
Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Champion. All in favor?
All except Kanner: Aye.
Lehman: I am sorry, Eleanor?
Dilkes: What date are we talking about? To when?
Lehman: Uh, this one, I-
Dilkes: 15th?
Karr: Staff?.
Lehman: Karin?
Vanderhoef: 15th.
Lelunan: Do you think that it is appropriate for us to discuss the third option and act
on that prior to visiting with the Planning and Zoning Commission? This
is an option that they haven't even discussed.
Dilkes: My only question was whether getting it- moving it to the- continuing it to
the 15th will give us time to address the meeting with Planning and
Zoning. If there is to be a meeting.
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Champion: Why couldn't we have the meeting with them on this the same time we
have the meeting-
Lehman: We can.
Franklin: Right. Right. Why don't you continue it to the 7th?
Lehman: February 7th?
Karr: March 7th.
Franklin: That will give us some more time to work with Bud on this.
Lehman: March 7th? IS that agreeable? Is that agreeable to the motion?
Vanderhoef: That is my motion.
Lehman: Make the motion for March 7th?
Vanderhoef: Yep.
O'Donnell: Connie seconds it.
Lehman: That will have given us time to draw up the agreement. Also, uh, to have
met with Planning and Zoning Commission to discuss the options with
them. All in favor, say aye. I am sorry.
Dilkes: I am sorry, just a minute. We are conferring with the applicant I believe to
see if that is acceptable. It is okay.
Lehman: All in favor?
All except Kmmer: Aye.
Lehman: Opposed?
Kanner: Aye.
Lehman: The public hearing will be continued to March 7th at which time we will
discuss and we will have a new agreement drawn by that time which we
can discuss with the Planning and Zoning Commission.
???: Yes.
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Lehman: And part of that agreement will be the method by which we determine
when traffic is sufficient to require closure of the access.
Dilkes: Yes.
Karr: Do we have a motion to accept correspondence?
O'Donnell: So moved.
Lehman: Moved by O'Donnell.
Champion: Second.
Lehman: Seconded by Champion. All in favor?
All: Aye.
Lehman: Opposed? Motion carries.
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meeting of February 1, 2000.
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ITEM NO 6e. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING
DESIGNATION FROM LOW DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL
(RM-12) AND MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL
(RS-8) TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-
12/11.79 ACRES) AND (OPDH-8/1.47 ACRES) AND APPROVING A
PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY
PLAN FOR WINDSOR RIDGE, PART 15, A PROPOSED 98-UNIT
RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT LOCATED NORTH OF COURT
STREET AT ITS EASTERN TERMINUS. (REZ99-0011) (FIRST
CONSIDERATION).
O'Donnell: Move to adopt.
Lehman: Moved by O'Donnell.
Champion: Second.
Lehman: Seconded by Champion. Discussion?
Vanderhoef: I would just like to say publicly that I appreciate the developers working
with the design to change the sidewalk situation so that it comes around
from the parking area to the front doors.
O'Donnell: Good.
Lehman: Roll Call. First consideration carries.
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ITEM NO 6g CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A FINAL PLAT OF
SCOTT BOULEVARD EAST, PART 4, A 7.36-ACRE, 15-LOT
RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION WITH ONE OUTLOT LOCATED AT
SCOTT PARK DRIVE AND HUMMINGBIRD LANE. (SUB99-0027).
Dilkes: Mr. Mayor, there is a request by the applicant to defer this. We are
awaiting some legal papers.
Vanderhoef: Until when?
Lehman: Do we have a motion to that effect?
Vanderhoef: What date?
Karr: 15th.
O'Donnell: Move we defer to 15th.
Lehman: Moved by O'Donnell.
Champion: Second.
Lehman: Seconded by Champion we defer to February 15th. All in favor?
All: Aye.
Lehman: Opposed? Motion carries. Deferred until the next meeting.
Karr: Do we have a motion to accept that correspondence?
Vanderhoef: So moved.
Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef.
O'Donnell: Second.
Lehman: Seconded by O'Donnell to accept correspondence. All in favor?
All: Aye.
Lehman: Opposed? Motion carries.
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ITEM NO 7. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ACQUISITION OF
THE ENGLERT THEATER, AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN POHL
FAMILY PROPERTIES LLC AND THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, AND AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE IOWA CITY JAZZ FESTIVAL-
ENGLERT THEATRE FUND AND THE CITY OF IOWA CITY.
Lehman: Do we have a motion?
O'Donnell: So moved.
Lehman: Moved by O'Donnell.
Champion: Second.
Vanderhoe~ Second.
Lehman: Seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion?
Wilburn: Can we have Karin since she worked out this agreement just state what we
are discussing and put it in context. Talk about the request from the, um,
from the coalition?
Lehman: Yeah, I think that is a good idea.
Wilburn: A brief summary? The reason that I ask Karin is because a lot of the
correspondence and comments and questions that I received about this had
different understandings, different interpretations, of what is being
discussed and considered, what has been offered. It depended on what day
the person read the newspaper as to what was being considered here. And
I made a comment to someone during one of the breaks that I am starting
to appreciate one of the- what the open meetings law or ordinance which
allows you to negotiate purchase type things in a private session because it
seems to me that part of this miscommunication, misunderstanding about
what is on the table has been a result of everyone looking and negotiating
and not negotiating in the papers. So, for that reason is why I ask you to
do this.
Franklin: Sure, sure.
Wilburn: Thank you.
Franklin: The agreements that are under consideration- there are two agreements.
And first of all I will go over the one with Pohl Family Properties.
Basically, under that agreement the City would step into the shoes of Pohl
Family Properties and take over the purchase agreement between Pohl and
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Engvar Theaters which is a subsidiary of Central States. In doing that the
City would agree to pay certain incidental costs to Pohl Family Properties.
And those costs are related to earnest money, inspection, appraisal,
realtor's commission, and interest on this whole transaction. The interest
which is accruing is from the original closing date until whatever date this
transaction were to close. What would be paid to Pohl would be the
amount that they would have to pay at the time at which this agreement is
signed by the Mayor. We are talking about approximately $41,000 in that-
in terms of covering those incidental costs. At that time then we would
step into the purchase agreement between Pohl and ### Theaters. And we
would pay to Engvar Theaters approximately $717,000 which is $725,000
less- it would be $7,250 of earnest money that was paid to them already by
Mr. Pohl. The agreement with Pohl Family Properties also indicates that
if the City is unable to enter into a purchase agreement with a not for
profit entity within a 9 month period that the City will sell to and Mr. Pohl
will buy from the City the Englert Theater. What that does is it insures
that at the end of the 9 months the City would not have ownership of the
Englert Theater any longer. Mr. Pohl would buy it back. That is the
agreement with Pohl.
Wilburn: And Mr. Pohl had signed that?
Franklin: Yes.
Wilburn: And we copy of that?
Franklin: Yes.
Wilburn: Okay.
Franklin: The other agreement is between the City and an entity- and this is where it
gets a little bit confusing. The Englert Theater Coalition is not an
incorporated not for profit at this point in time. Contributions to this cause
have been taken through the Iowa City Jazz Festival and a special fund for
the Englert Theater. And so the agreement that we have in this case must
be with an entity that can sign for a commitment of money because part of
what that agreement is about is that the coalition or whatever party can
sign for a financial commitment indicating that they will pay anything in
excess of $700,000 up to $66,000. Now what that- the reason for that is is
that the City can commit to $700,000 in debt without going for a
referendum but cannot commit to anymore than that without going to a
referendum. Therefore this agreement would require that the coalition, the
community group, come up with the difference so that we don't need to go
to a referendum because obviously there is not time for that. This
agreement also indicates that there will be a 9 month period in which the
coalition may purchase the Englert Theater from the City for $500,000-
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which is $200,000 less than what the City would pay for it out of public
funds. So at that point in time there would have been a financial
commitment of $500,000 and up to $566,000 by this group. We do not
have a signed letter of agreement at this point in time from the coalition or
from the Jazz Festival acting on behalf of the coalition. And I think that
Mark Ginsberg can probably speak to that issue.
Wilburn: And have representatives of the coalition seen that part of the agreement?
Franklin: Yes.
Wilburn: And had they seen that prior to the letter correspondence- (can't hear) sent
to the City, which we have a copy of, that says that they would like an
even contribution from the City and the group of $650,000 a piece?
Franklin: They did not have the actual document until Friday- Thursday. Thursday,
um, of last week which was the same day that we received their letter. So,
they drafted that letter and did that work before they had that letter of
agreement in hand.
Wilbum: Okay.
Franklin: There had been communication back and forth.
Wilburn: About?
Franklin: About the amount of money that we were talking about.
Wilburn: Okay, so, um, when they drafted that letter, um, from your point of view,
they understood what was being proposed and drafted by you?
Franklin; Yes. The only- the only change that occurred in that letter of agreement
between our conversations and when they got the piece of paper was that
we had to increase from $63,000 to $66,000- they amount of money
because of the potential interest which is an unknown at this point.
Wilburn: Okay. Thank you.
Franklin: You are welcome.
Wilburn: Now (can't hear) discussion.
Letunan: Yes.
Champion: That was a good question.
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Lehman: Mark?
Ginsberg: Well, actually I was going to- I am Mark Ginsberg. And I was going to
actually bump this 1½ million tonight, no. I want to talk a little bit to the
issue of last night's discussion if I can. Irvin mentioned that the
businesses would profit from this- or the business- the business entity I am
assuming downtown is what you meant when you said the businesses
would profit from this investment in our community. And I am going to
draw a parallel I hope between these businesses who would profit from the
City's investment in this and their own personal investments, time and
money, into the Englert Theater. Am I misunderstanding what you said
last night?
Pfab: I am not sure- that doesn't- it doesn't register (can't hear).
Ginsberg: Last night you made a comment that the businesses- you felt that the
support shouldn't come from the City because the businesses downtown
would be benefiting from this type of support in direst profits to their
businesses.
Pfab: IfI made that statement I sure didn't intend it that way.
Ginsberg: Okay.
Pfab: That wasn't- that had nothing to do with it. Our point- my point was- the
City should support it to a certain degree but there was a limit and because
of other needs. And this- and basically as long as you being this up I will
make the point- there is a lot of needs in the City that don't have the depth
of patrons that this project would. So, the City has to have- has a greater
obligation to see that their needs are met. And that is not saying this isn't
important but-
Ginsberg: Actually- I am sorry, go ahead.
Pfab: And that is not saying that this is not important but this is a wonderful- is
something that has a little lower priority than seeing that people have food
and shelter.
Ginsberg: Well, I- yeah I agree with you. We don't want to eliminate food, shelter
and clothing from the City okay? So don't get us wrong. We're not
asking for that. And if I misunderstood your comments last night I
apologize.
Pfab: That is fine. Apology accepted.
Ginsberg: These are the same businesses, I wanted to say, that are down here tonight
that support Emma Goldman and I Care and Ronald McDonald, (can't
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hear), the Iowa City Commtmity School District and the Public Libraries
and all of the programs that go on outside of their business district. As a
matter-of-fact I invested in the Children's Museum in the Coral Ridge
Mall. I don't think that is lining my pockets. I make these suggestions
that I am here tonight, uh, because I want to make an investment in the
community. Personally. We have decided to ban together. We also
understand the necessity for this coalition to become as diverse as it
possibly can. Going outside of the downtown business district. I think
from the sheer fact that we had little time to organize ourselves, this was
thrown into our plate without being aware that all of these conditions
would transpire. We had to put together something quickly and appeal to
the broader community as fast as we possibly could. So, we would rather
have had some time to think about this too Steve. We like to have a little
more time than 9 months or 2 months or 10 days to put $50,000 together.
As it changes- it is evolving as we go along as well. What we are asking
for though is a depth of imagination on your parts. And we decided to
raise our families here. To make lifelong friends here. We are not
nomadic, as is a large population of this community. You know how
difficult already it is to raise funds here. We don't have a deep pockets
like Ted Waits or Clark McCIouds. So, we are dealing with nickels and
dimes. And for us to put together 1.2 or 1.4 million for a performance
space that will be a community treasure seems a bit unrealistic without
some of the support from the Council. From the City. And as I read
through your budgets, and I am not a bright person, but I see $68 million
dollars allocated for roads over the next five years. I say keep the country
roads rustic. Give us $650,000. 1½ or 1/10 or something in the 1/10 of a
percent of that $68 million. There are not other programs. We are not
asking you to take away from the Skateboard Park or the Renaissance
Theater or the lights or the- any of the benefits of this community. What
we would like you to do is build a Disneyland. And have the foresight to
understand that it attracts the creative. It attracts the cultural. We feel
there is enough diversity of 18 to 25 year old venues in places to throw up
in downtown Iowa City. We don't need anymore. The ratio is over-
ratioed. You know that. And mall owners have the ability to be
benevolent dictators. They can say there is this many restaurants and bars-
this many soft goods stores and retailers. They are ingenious. Coral
Ridge has an extremely strong lobby so we know when general growth
goes to the state economic board to raise a half a million dollars (changed
tapes) and what they provide for the state in property tax revenues. We
don't have that strength. So we rely on the City. So we are asking you if
it is not too difficult to understand to think in the future- we don't know
what tomorrow is going to bring. But we do understand that there is an
opportunity here to lay a foundation, an anchor, for a cultural resource. To
perhaps change the direction of the way things are going in downtown to
spin the other way for a little while. You have invested in it already. We
are asking to make an additional small investment. And I have invested
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my time. I don't see in those of us who are here tonight that are going to
speak to this issue and speak passionately about it- I don't think are being
paid anything for this. Nor have we been paid to endorse women's
athletics or the Iowa City Jazz Festival or Arts Iowa City or any other
program that benefits this community. And those things have been
brought here for no charge for a long time. I think that is about it. My
question to the Council is: "do you believe?" Any questions for me?
Pfab: I do have a question. I believe that the theater group- or the theater, the
motion picture theater people, really are doing the community an injustice
when they say no mot- no movies there ever. They expect the community
to support them by buying tickets all over the place but then when they
have a chance to make a good will gesture they take, not only when they
walk out the door, they take the table cloth and the table with them. A big
thanks, fight? And that is where the problem is. I think that we- the
restriction is just too much for something like this. When the project came
to us we were told that- and all of a sudden it is laid on the table and it
says no movies ever. We were told no first rate movies. That was a place
to keep helping pay the bills. And then all of a sudden it is dumped on us
out of the smoke in the middle of the night in a foggy night it comes in
over the transit. And we just have nothing to go on but a lot of publicity
and ideas running around with no, very few, legs for a long time. And that
is really disturbing. And then basically the project was brought to us
saying that it would be a movie- a place where movies could be shown and
there could be an income stream. And then we're saying- then we look at
the, uh, at the assessment, the value, the assessment value of it for taxes-
that was $700,000 and some dollars. $700,000 plus. But that was as an
operating theater bringing in money everyday. So what is it worth? I
don't know. But at- there is another side to that. Apparently there was a
arms length transaction by a buyer and a seller. That is the thing that- we
come into this very late.
Ginsberg: You are talking about between Kip and (can't hear).
Pfab: Right. It appears that that was an arms length transaction. So that should
properly- probably be a way of valuing that property. And if that- if that is
the way it is- but we can't find any information. (can't hear) been running
around here and nobody owns it and it is running here and there. And that
was the frustrating part.
Ginsberg: I can't address the idea about overcoming the idea of no film in perpetuity.
My grandmother used to say to me ever or forever is a long time.
Pfab: Except that it is going to cost us a lot more money.
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Ginsberg: I am not sure about that Irvin. And maybe it will and maybe it won't. I
don't know how many movies Hancher shows, but they seem to be
successful. Paramount Theater seems to be successful. Hoyt Sherman
seems to be successful. There are a lot of examples of performing spaces
like this that seem to be and are successful.
Kanner: Mark, in what sense is Hancher successful? Are they- are their
performances paying for their costs associated with that? If you would put
everything in or are they being subsidized to a large extent by the
University?
Ginsberg: Actually, you know what Steve? Steve? You know what? I am going to
retract that last Hancher statement because I don't want to address that
question. I can't address that it. I don't have Hancher's pro forma or P&L
in front of me, so. The point I am trying to make and I am sure the point
that you understand me trying to make that I understand your job is that a
space like this does not need to have a movie to be successful. There are
programs like Riverside Theater, Iowa City Jazz Festival, Community
Theaters Programming, Prairie Lights, Prairie Home Companions, Sweet
Adelines, the Barbershop Quartet. My children instead of going up to
Paramount Theater to toe dance can do it down here. We can have over
run from everything from the City High and West High and the fact that
Coralville is overbuilding without any consideration for additional
educational spaces- that can consume some of that space for performing
space or clinical space. And some day down the road Steve if (can't hear)
Kanner: I bring it up Mark- I think hyperbole doesn't do any of us any good. I
think there is a lot of-
Ginsberg: But dreaming does Steve.
Kanner: -excitement, a lot of excitement-
Ginsberg: Dreaming does do us some good.
Kanner: But we need to look at some of the facts as much as we can and determine
from that basis and I think that would help us more. Instead of the
exaggeration.
Ginsberg: Well, what facts would you like?
Lehman: Let me just interject here for a second. The resolution that the Council is
considering does not deal with the operation of the theater. It deals with
whether or not the City will partner with a group of local citizens through
the purchase of the building. It has nothing to do with the operation of the
theater. It says that if we chose to pass this that this local group of folks
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have 9 months to repurchase the property from the City and if during that
period of time that is not possible the City then gives the property back to
Mr. Pohl. So the- I understand why it would be of very grave concem to
the citizens who would like to buy this property how it will operate but
from the City's perspective it is just strictly a matter of buying a piece of
property. We are protected from either end of it if we chose to do this.
The operation, I think, is probably of grave concern to the folks who are
going to partner with the City, but certainly of a lesser concern to us-
financially.
Ginsberg: I agree with (can't hear). Can't say it any better.
Wilburn: You are talking about the nature of the purchase itself and I just have a- if
we could just kind of pause for a second- I want the people who are here
on both sides concerned about the issue just to kind of hear my thought as
I am looking- Mark, you alluded to yourself looking at the budget, okay?
For me this hasn't been a question about the merits of the project, whether
it is a great idea, it is a great vision. I am a clarinetist- I'd love to get up
there and squeak away if there were people willing to come down and sit
and listen but- so in other words it is a good idea. Our decision is going to
rest with balancing one set of wants and needs versus another set of wants
and needs. You made a valid point about the roads. We've got requests
for $46 million of wants and needs. Of those about $39 million or 85%
are (can't hear) roads, there is water- waste water- storm water. Some of
them are things that will help the City comply with for example some
upcoming federal guidelines or existing federal guidelines, changes that
have occurred. The remainder are things where we need to sit and talk
about which wants and needs are we going to address and which are we
going to put off for later. Which are we just plain not going to do. As a
new Council member one of the things that I have been wrestling with is
the question about the City's fiscal policy. There is one that states that our
debt service property tax levy shall not exceed 25% of the total property
tax levy. In other words, the total property tax the City collects will go no
higher than 25% to pay off debt. To make a long story short, not every
request is gonna be- not every want and need is going to be fulfilled. Last
night, and this is my conversation with you all, last night for the first time,
um, I heard that there may be some Councilors who may be willing to
forgo this self-imposed debt policy. That is something new. It is
something that if we do that that is a change in policy. We haven't had an
opp~ Monday and Tuesday we are going to be talking about, I assume that,
we are going to be talking about is a road gonna go through. That's, you
know, that is- you mentioned that you all would like to have had time to
do whatever to put together- I am saying I wish we would have the time
for it, okay? You know, this started out as it was presented, to my
understanding, it was presented to me as a short term loan. If it were a
short term loan, and again I heard people calling "why won't you loan the
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group the money?" If it were just a short term loan borrowing against one
of the existing enterprise funds- I think the majority of Council would go
with it. But now, from the letter that you sent requesting $650,000 of
permanent financing, that means it is a long term debt question and we
haven't haggled each other about whether we are going to have long term
debt.
Ginsberg: Can I interrupt for just one second?
Wilburn: Sure.
Ginsberg: You know, our- even if you were to provide $650,000 which is our desire
at this point we still need to raise a million dollars to make sure that we
have operating capital for at least the first 2 years in addition to the
restoration of this building. So it is not like we are thinking this is pie in
the sky and we are going to go ahead and put the money in the bank and
wee, wee, wee all the way home. We have a lot of work ahead of us.
Wilburn: I understand.
Ginsberg: And it is not just the six or seven of us- it is the 108,000 of us and we feel
that it has a potential long term benefit. And think of it in terms of the
long term approach. And perhaps it is not $650,000 tonight. Perhaps it is
only $600,000.
Wilburn: But again, the question comes about which set of wants and needs we are
going to fund. Okay? There are some other things- I had mentioned our
self-imposed debt limit. There is some other constraints on the City, um,
there is- we have been- we have heard and caught wind of the State
Legislature talking about a property tax freeze. With the property tax
freeze that is going to again put a constraint on our ability to go into debt
for whatever projects, whatever sets of wants and needs we want to do.
And, again, outside of you all that is not a conversation that we have had
yet. I am again hoping that we will have that conversation Monday and
Tuesday to talk about whatever the set- other set of wants and needs we
are going to do. We have got another list of projects that we haven't even
talked about. It is on 4 or 5 pages. They are unfunded wants and needs to
the total of $138 million. This includes things like the Library expansion,
the Senior Center skywalk- there's some projects that, some other wants
and needs, that exist in the community that haven't been asked of Council.
For example, the juvenile crime prevention group that was getting
$200,000 a year to work with about 1200 youth in the county, many of
whom are in Iowa City. You know, so, again this is a question of which
wants and needs are we going to fund? I mention this because I want
people to get an appreciation for the fact that it is not a matter of "is this a
good project?". You are talking about having vision- it is a great vision. I
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don't have the luxury up here when I am talking with- you mentioned
some roads- I am on record for saying that I don't want First Avenue to go
through. That is one thing, but we haven't haggled on that. But there is
some other things that I don't know what my fellow Councilors are going
to do. I mean, I have people saying "you don't support the arts"- well, I
supported the theater that is going into City Park. I supported that as a
Parks and Rec commissioner. I plan on in our haggling on Monday and
Tuesday providing allocations for Jazz Fest, for Arts Fest. So again, for
your purposes, I want you to understand and appreciate where we are
coming from. Now, all the time the City has- I forget what (can't hear)
existing agencies come to us asking for a certain amount of money. So
(can't hear) looks at their list of wants and needs. Well, you asked for
$80,000- we can only give you $50,000. And these existing agencies have
the administrations, the overhead- and have to go ahead and make some
adjustments as to what they are going to do. You know, so that is another
consideration that I think we need to-
Ginsberg: We are not insensitive to these other extraneous areas and, you see, what
happens too is that the group of us that are here tonight continue to be
repeat in the City Council Chambers. So it is not a single issue for us
either. I mean, if it is not tonight with the Englert it is Mercy Hospital or
it is Iowa City Jazz Festival or museums or roads or parks or anything else
we feel passionate about. I think that one of the things that we all can
agree on is we feel passionate about the community we live in. Therefore
you see us multiple times. I think that is all I have to say.
O'Donnell: Mark, I want to make a quick comment.
Ginsberg: Yes?
O'Donnell: Last week, and just to follow up on what Ross said, last week we all sat
here and we had 13 agencies come to us and ask us for money. And that is
not including the human service agencies yet to come. We are going to
have to tell some of these folks "no" and we also have to ask ourselves a
very difficult question like "what are we going to cut out?" from funding.
And I am not ready or willing to cut a road. Safety is a main concern
when you sit up and if a road needs done or a bridge needs done I want to
get it done.
Ginsberg: I am not trying to be glib about this Mike but I-
O'Donnell: I know you're not Mark. But I am saying there is many difficult decisions
and the bottom line with me is this is a private venture and I believe it
should be dealt with privately.
Ginsberg: Well I disagree but-
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O'Donnell: You are entitled (can't hear).
Lehman: I suspect that there are a number of folks in the audience who would like
to speak to us. So why don't we hear from some folks from the audience?
Harris: Hi, my name is Jim Harris. And I am enthusiastic about this project and
always have been. There is only one Englert Theater. There is only one
Old Capitol. This all came about very quickly. We all know that. And
you have a short amount of time to make a decision. You have got a City
Plaza, a kiosk up there, a parking place, Millennium Tower. Your history
(can't hear) with the theater- a place for your children, your grandparents,
and everyone- that is for us. That is for our whole town. You have got to
think about that. Money is not easy to raise. I was on the Neighborhood
Center of Iowa City Preservation with Harry ####, we were co-chairmen.
$600,000- we raised it very easily. $400,000 came from the Stanley
Foundation in Muscatine, Merrycrest, Variety Clubs of Iowa City. Two
thirds of it outside money just from Iowa City. The Library Foundation,
public library- it took them 8 years to raise a million dollars. So it is not
just one of these things. We do not have places to go to- big corporations
and so forth that we can lean on. And we have got to look to the future.
And this is the future for all of us. You were elected to be that future. To
think about things down the road. And I hope we can do it. Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you.
Berkowitz: I am going to speak to urban sprawl again.
Lehman: We are talking about the Englert Theater.
Berkowitz: I am talking about the Englert and urban sprawl. They are connected. It is
very connected because the Coral Ridge Mall that went out on farmland
took part of the business away from downtown Iowa City. And I am not
sure why they left. You were elected to think about the future of Iowa
City and to invest in it. Iowa City is a historical gem. We need tours to
highlight the beautiful architecture in Iowa City. We need people who are
interested in the architecture of the downtown. The spirit of the
downtown. I am writing a letter to Robin Williarns and to Lily Tomlin
and Chrissy Vilsack- this is how it reads. "Could you come to Iowa City,
Iowa please to inspire our historic spirit? We have a lovely historic
theater that many would like to renovate but we need a spark like yourself
to inspire our dreams more. To get it off the ground. Please call me." I
should write please call the City of Iowa City also. Let me tell you a
story. We used to live out by Interstate 80 out in Coralville near the
Interstate. And I had to leave my house everyday to escape from the place
because it was too noisy. Traffic was so unpleasant I could not stay in my
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house. Coralville started to raise a petition to build a wall to keep the
traffic sound out because so many neighbors couldn't stand it either. But-
so we bought a house in Iowa City and my husband said "no Holly, we
can't do that because we can't afford it right now". I said "Dan, let's look
into it". We looked into it. We got a realtor. We made the ends meet
because we wanted to. If you want to do something there is no limit to
what you can do. If you want to do it, if you have the will to coordinate
with other people who want to do it, there is no excuse for letting
something like this die. Thank you>
Lehman: Thank you Holly.
Berkowitz: All we have is our spirit. That is the most important thing in life. Cash- it
comes and goes. Well, it is just a minor detail. An irritating detail, a tool
that you use that can also become a weapon.
O'Donnell: Thank you Holly.
Berkowitz: You are welcome.
Knapp: That is a hard act to follow. I am Jim Knapp (can't here). I am not a
member of the coalition but I would like to read what I have written
because I really believe in what they are doing and if they would accept
me as a member I will be a member. And I will make a pledge.
Honorable Mayor and Council Members, I want to be added to the voices
that are crying out for Iowa City to do something positive for the future of
Iowa City. The Englert Theater needs to be saved and renovated. The
voices of the ghosts of so many giants of the screen can still be heard
when you close your eyes and let your mind wander. Gable, Bogart,
Lombard still speak to us. The laughter brought about by such immortals
as the Bowcry Boys, the Marx brothers, Charlie Chaplin, still echo the
walls. Who grew up during World War II and remembers movie town
news Edward R. Morrow's filmed war reports or ever forget they ever
heard or where they heard it? Finally, what about all of the cartoons that
used to proceed the movies that have given away to the commercialism
and ridiculous advertisements that movie goers are forced to endure while
waiting for the latest Hollywood super movie? So the opportunity arose
because of a dying downtown. Everything moved away and the Englert
Theater decided to move away. So this relic became avenue- now can
become avenue of performing arts and cultural events to Iowa City which
Iowa City so much reveres. Iowa City has talked about building a
conununity cultural center. Now they have an opportunity to get involved
in one with a minute portion of the money they would have to spend on a
cultural center. This venture would be considered a seed that once planted
could spark the growth and revitalization of downtown Iowa City. Now a
coalition of interested citizens is asking for your participation to
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accomplish the dream of seeing this historical building restored and
providing avenue for such diverse entertainment that only can be limited
by one's own imagination. And opera house fight here in River City.
Think of it. My god, I came from Clear Lake that is right next to Mason
City, Meredith Wilson's hometown. Clear Lake was Buddy Holly's last
venue. They renovated the Surf Ballroom. That is up and running baby!
So why don't we do that? Imagine this- the move is only one of many
cultural attractions needed to start the revitalization of a dying downtown.
Narrow-minded people will challenge the long-range investment on our
community not seeing the benefits derived. So taxes go up. What else is
new? For years now we have let downtown become depleted thinking that
the students will support us and know we see what has happened. A mall
on the verge of bankruptcy, empty stores, businesses closing and soon bars
will be all that are left downtown. With plenty of parking places. And
ramps I might add. So why not offer to work out a compromise with the
Englert Theater Coalition? Go for it by providing a relatively short term
funding and enable the coalition to get the commitments needed to raise
the funds for a very worthwhile project. Your foresight and wisdom will
be remembered by many other for years to come that enjoy this new
venue. Yes, the movies may never be seen again because of the ludicrous
stipulations Central States Theaters has made, ending the building as used
as a movie theater. After helping to make Central States Theater hugely
wealthy on the revenues from Iowa Citians- and believe me, this has
happened- one would think that they could well-afford just to come right
out and donate the building to a non profit organization. But they don't
seem to see it that way.
O'Donnell: That might be a good thing to follow up on Jim.
Knapp: One would think they could well-afford to donate the building and
continue the traditions of the past. Certainly, they could have made
millions off the citizens and the competition would not have hurt them.
Shame on Central States Theater for their avarice and their greed that
denies our community and our children a glimpse of the past. And shame
on those people who would prevent that cause from becoming a reality.
You have the opportunity to make this city a much better place to live and
downtown a true center for the enjoyment for many and for years to come.
And yes, I think the community will stand behind the coalition and pledge
the money. Thank you for your patience and hearing my plea and I will
tell you what- I bet you if you back them and give them some kind of a
compromise they'll find more than the one and a half million and maybe
they will be able to pay off the City and get the City out of it all together
and raise 2 million dollars. And God bless you, I hope you...(can't hear).
Shaw: My name is John Shaw. With the intent of differentiating ourselves from
a large outlying commercial complex we are presently in the midst of
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significant improvements in the Town Center designed to accentuate the
historic character of Iowa City. The Englert Theater is one of the most
historic, uh, historically significant and notable structures we have in
town. We have lost the Astro. We have lost the Iowa. If use at the
Englert Theater changes it will result in significant interior modifications
and even if the exterior fagade and marquis are maintained they will
operate as little more than meaningless and hollow stage set for what used
to be. To date, we haven't lost the Englert.
Shimmer: My name is Justine Shimmer. I am a business owner in town. I am one of
the owners of Studiolo. I have some hard facts for you. They are selling
very eloquently what I support entirely but what I have done is talked to
several cities around town and several of the downtown associations,
several Mayors. I have- I will pass them out to you so you can see them.
Kanner: Justine, I was having a little trouble hearing you. Could you speak more
directly into the mic?
Shimmer: I hate speaking in public so this is really hard for me. What you see in
front of you is a list of several cities- mostly University towns that have
similar population sizes. And I have spoken to several contacts, I have
numbers listed for you- you can call them yourself. They are more than
willing to talk to you about these projects. The two main ones I'll mention
here are Columbia, Missouri, um, they have two theaters that they support.
The Missouri Theater, which is a non-profit organization and The Blue
Note which is a profit- by private businesses. The woman Judy Hull is the
President of the Downtown Association. You can read the downtown
philosophy of how they approached their community and how they
support it and how they came aback from facing a similar situation where
a mall went in and they had to revitalize their downtown. Athens Georgia
is the same thing. I grew up there. They built a mall on the outskirts of
town. The downtown was on the verge of collapse. The down- the city
council took initiative to revitalize the downtown. Mainly, um, what I
have here is several contacts. The former Mayor of Athens, Georgia is
willing to speak with you about this. Former directors of the downtown
council, the current downtown director. They have a historic Morton
Theater- it was an old vaudeville theater that they renovated that is fully
supported by the city. It was a city project, they funded it entirely. I have
information that they are going to fax me or send to me in the next couple
of days on how they did that. So I will have specific outlines for you on
how they ran that program. They also have another for profit organization
called the Georgia Theater. It is an old movie theater that they renovated.
And a couple of other cities with information that you can contact and
people you can contact to talk to them about the projects and how they
developed their cities and brought them back. The guy from Athens was
very helpful. He sent me the outlines of their downtown development
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authority and how they approached their downtown. Please take the time
to read that. It gives you just an idea of what the possibilities are of the
future of this town and why main streets are important and what is
important about the community and how easy it is to get people
enthusiastic about these things. A couple of other things within my
business- I own an art gallery here in town. We provide a very small
performance space on a limited basis and the minute we let that be known
to the public we have had people clamoring for it. We've got three theater
groups that are interested in it- Graffiti Theater (can't hear), which is a
new development; Dreamwell Theater; you've got the community theater
that needs a space. If you provide the space the people are going to use it.
And that is going to bring the people to the downtown. It is going to
revitalize it. It is going to bring quality business to downtown. You are
going to have more restaurants, you are going to have more bars if you
need them- that is going to happen no matter what so you might as well
have some direction or some control over what the variety is within the
town. Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you.
Lambert: Hi, my name is Kent Lambert and I am the current director of the Thaw
Festival. It is a non-profit international festival of the media arts. And
since it was established in 1996, it has expanded and grown considerably
attracting artists and audiences from all over the world and Iowa not to
mention the local area. Thaw is a University affiliated event but this year,
its fifth year, its been our main objective to establish our festival as a
community event. In small part, this is because the University facilities
which we have used for our events are now too small for the audiences
that we attract. But mainly because we strongly believe that Thaw has
much to offer to the local community. Our events are free and open to the
public and provide the opportunity for the Iowa City community to see a
vast variety of artistic work that would otherwise be completely
unavailable in the area. I am one of a dedicated committee of over 30
volunteers and we see the Englert as an invaluable resource. We would
focus considerable efforts to maintaining it as a multiple use public
performance space. The Thaw festival encourages tourism and local
business by attracted a growing number of visitors. It enhances and
promotes cultural diversity and encourages volunteerism. And as you can
tell, we are one of countless organizations who would benefit so
significantly if the Englert were preserved. And I myself see this decision
as an extremely crucial impasse for the future not only of vital events such
as our festival but for the cultural integrity of Iowa City as a whole.
Please, please, please do not the Englert be turned into another bar. Thank
you.
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Kanner: Kent? Before you go and for the audience I would just like to read what
the restriction is. Just a couple lines from the offer to purchase of the
commercial property. And basically it says, this is paragraph 21, it is the
no movie clause essentially. "Will not be used as an auditorium or theater
that shows motion pictures or film, electronic or satellite transmission.
Nothing herein shall prevent an occasional non-commercial film, video,
electronics or satellite transmission which is not offered to the general
public." That is one of the things that we are dealing with here.
Lambert: All I can say (can't hear) and saying shame on Central States Theaters, but
I can tell you Thaw is a collective of artists and if we can't show films and
videos there, installations, performances, we will work around it. But save
this place.
Kanner: Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you.
Champion: When they say that, what if you have a multi-media event?
Lambert: It is a multi-media- we have a digital exhibition.
Champion: No, I mean in talking about that clause. I mean, what if you are the
Mannheim Steamrollers and you use all of that film and sound and-? I
mean, I think- does that mean you can't do that either? Do we have their
lawyer here?
Lambert: I am pretty naive. I mean, but I would hope that these are things that
could be worked around or they could be compromised. I don't know. I
don't know if it is too late for that now.
Pfab: Okay, I have a question. We are kind of getting the feeling up here that
we are the bad guys.
Lambert: No- I am sorry.
Pfab: I mean, that kind of seems to be the thing here but you also have to
remember a couple of things. First of all, this thing has been a rolling and
a changing time frame. A rolling and a changing amount and a lot of other
things. Now, the City- we were willing to go along with several things.
One was it appeared we had the support to do $200,000 plus save the
organization another $250,000 because we stepped in as a buyer. If it is
such a good idea, where are the commercial lenders?
Lambert: I agree and if my tone suggested that I am antagonistic towards you please
forgive me.
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Pfab: No, and I am not but I think we need to make that statement. We are
supporting you. We are trying to figure out but we don't want to fight
amongst ourselves. I think the- if there is an enemy which is probably not
the right term to use, but if there is somebody opposing us I don't think
that person or that organization is in this room. So, I mean, it is not
fighting amongst ourselves- it is we against whoever. Now, I think we
need to make a stand here and say some things need to change. If this
was- the first thing that was approached was that it was going to be no first
rate movies. I can understand that. But I can't understand the rest of it-
Lambert: I don't either.
Pfab: And the fact that it was brought out here we don't have big commercial
people to donate- to make donations. We are small. So? The little
coming in from the theater would have been a great thing. It would have
helped cover the costs. But you look once and you blink and it is gone.
Then the time changes. We were told that we had to make this decision
and it was going to close on the 24th. Now it changes. We don't know
what is going on.
Lambert: Well, I'll ask from my naive perspective is that you give your support to
the Englert Coalition because I think that these things will be worked out
eventually.
Pfab: We really talked- we were.
Lehman: Thank you. (Can't hear)
Champion: Let me just kind of wind this up a little bit.
Lehman: I think what I would I'd like to do with the permission of the Council is to
take until a quarter after we'll take comments from the public and then we
will (can't hear) among ourselves and then decide what we want to do.
So, we will have about 7 or 8 more minutes.
Woodson: I have been clumsy all day today. My name is Daryl Woodson. And I
will get my sticker on here. One thing that I would like to address real
quick is the idea that the savings for the Coalition is- I am going to move
this up just a bit- the savings to the Coalition is a quarter million dollars by
the City jumping in as the interim purchaser. Remember, the City
jumping in as the interim purchaser loses us the $100,000 contribution that
Mr. Pohl had pledged to give back from the purchase price. That is
$100,000 offof that. And the ancillary costs that we have to cover [will]
actually bring it down to somewhere between $100,000 and $150,000
savings to us. So, it is not a quarter million dollars savings. So, I just
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wanted to address that right away. I also wanted first of all to thank all of
you. We have all been in the middle of a hurricane here with all of this
and you are right- you don't know where it is going from day to day. We
don't know either. So, we've all been trying to swim up stream as fast as
we can and keep up with it and we are all agreed that this is a good idea.
We just differ on what it takes to make it work. We would love to be able
to say we think we could go out and raise 1.5, 2 million dollars, 10 million
dollars. And do it without coming to you. We have been charged to be
realistic about this project. Realistic in the fact that we need to make it
pay for itself so there is no ongoing subsidy. And realistic in what it will
take to raise the capital costs. It doesn't do any good to raise the capital
costs to purchase the building and then have the Coalition or whatever non
profit corporation is formed, sit on the building for another period of
months leaving it vacant, leaving it dark, while we pay the costs of
keeping it that way and raise the money to equip it and put it into an
operating condition. If we can't have it as an operating condition and we
can't pay those costs and those costs come out of the fund raising and then
we are in a continual stream there. The current proposal would leave the
Coalition with 9 months to raise approximately 1.1 million dollars- maybe
closer to 1.2. The majority of the Coalition feels that this would be at best
extremely difficult. We do firmly believe that creating a community
auditorium at the Englert would be a major long term asset to the City.
And we certainly understand how difficult it is for you to decide amongst
the many projects- it will be funded, at what level they will be funded, on
a limited annual budget. We have enough problems with our own
personal budgets. With this understanding, we would like to ask you to
consider making a three year commitment to the Englert. This is what we
would be asking of major, corporate, or individual donors. Asking for a
pledge over a period of three years. Say $200,000 this year, $200,000 out
of the next budget year, $200,000 out of the next budget year. This would
come to the point where we feel we would have a viable fund raising
campaign. One that we could easily achieve. Maybe not easily, but we
could achieve. And it would get us where we want to be. We would like
you to consider that and we would like to thank you for all your time.
And if there is any questions that I can answer I will try. Don't ask me
about movies.
Lehman: Thank you.
Kanner: Don't ask you about- what was it?
Woodson: Movies.
Kanner: What is your favorite movie?
Woodson: That changes too. I was a film student. I've got a lot of them.
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Fisher: Hi, I am Peter Fisher and I am a public finance economist so I just want to
address the fiscal concerns that have been raised by several of the Council
members. I think it- the downtown is at a critical juncture right now and I
think it is very important as all of you acknowledge that we preserve its
diversity. That the variety of destinations that are there that create a
variety of reasons for people from across the community to go downtown.
But, the vitality of the downtown is not important not just in itself but also
because that is what ultimately supports the tax base that all of you are
concerned about. A vital downtown is one that generates interest and
generates sales, rents- those translate into property values. Those translate
into property taxes. And if you are concerned about that capital budget-
those $68 million and over dozens of projects as you should be, remember
that those are projects that are going to be paid for out of property taxes
over the next 10 and 20 years. And I urge you to take the long view of the
fiscal issue here. And to me, the fiscal issue is the downtown- are
property values downtown are going to decline or are we going to be able
to stabilize them? The Englert is just one piece of that puzzle but every
piece is very important right now and I urge you to find somewhere in that
$68 million dollars the money that this project needs. Thank you.
Lehman: Thank you.
Sanders: Just a quick question and a quick comment. I have been trying to follow
this in the newspapers and it has been extraordinarily difficult. And I am
wondering if someone could explain to me the funding stream that this
$200,000 would come out of versus the funding stream for agencies that
come before you asking for money? That is my question.
Lehman: The difference in this would be a Council expense which would probably
be paid for out of capital debt. Agencies come out of the general fund or
from CDBG monies and they are a recurring sort of thing. This would be
a one time sort of capital expense.
Sanders: So, in other words, any comments that we have heard tonight about groups
coming to you for help, human service agencies, that is out of a separate
budget? Correct?
Lehman: They would not come out of the capital budget.
Sanders: And it is non-germane, in my view, to this issue at hand.
Kanner: Well, there is one other factor Gary. There is the amount of lost interest
that we would get from the $700,000 over 9 months plus the potential
property tax which would be in the neighborhood of $50,000. Which
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would be from another pot of money. So there is that money to consider
also.
Sanders: Mike, you say that is germane.
O'Donnell: ...Gary is there is a point in time when you have to say no. That is the
point. You know, these are- everything is very worthy. I don't think there
is anybody up here that doesn't support the Englert Theater. It is just the
manner in how we support it.
Sanders: Right and my question only speaks to are we talking about looking at
requests in the capital improvement budget alone? Or do we have to bring
in other budgets that are not germane to this question?
Wilburn: Of the projects which are being questioned here which of them pushed
(can't hear) the debt that we incur? That we allow ourselves to incur?
Atkins: The Council heard the other evening presentations from a number of
groups. Human service agencies are funded as Ernie pointed out, Gary,
that is from the general fund and from CDBG. There were agencies that
came before the Council, boards and commissions, that asked for staff.
They have to come from the general operating budget. If we have to put
in place permanent financing to the $650,000 range I would be
recommending to the Council that that be in the form of debt. That we
would have to borrow that. If it is $200,000 1 might recommend to then
that we take it from our general operating budget. But once it gets beyond
that certain threshold our general 8/10 levy limit is our most severely
restricted budget. And if we are going to get into permanent financing for
a capital project I would do my best to shift that to the debt service levy
which in effect, in simple terms, is a separate pot of money.
Sanders: And therefore what is being voted on tonight is $200,000 from the capital
improvement fund? Isn't that correct?
Kanner: Plus $50,000 (can't hear)
Atkins: No. What is being voted on tonight if the Council were to approve this as
is, is it would authorize me, as their agent, to enter into a real estate
purchase agreement and we would provide $700,000 in funding, short-
term. We would take that from our reserve position. As Steve pointed
out, we lose opportunity cost- instead of investing that money we would
have it, in effect, we would transfer it. Under this agreement, then the
Coalition 9 months from now can buy the property back for $500,000.
There at that point we have to put in place $200,000 in permanent
financing. Likely, if the deal reaches that point I would also recommend
that that go to the debt. That is how it would work.
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Sanders: Well I will simply wish you luck. It is too bad that all of this came
together- everybody has said that. In a very confusing manner. And
maybe, when this is all over, however this vote goes tonight, there can be
a reappraisal of the process (change tape side)
Gary Sanders/and how they're brought here
Lehman/Gary that's all well and good except 1 never seen a project in six years that had
time constraints like this so I'm not sure that our process is bad at all
Gary Sanders/No I don't mean your process I mean all the players and maybe its only
because of my own simple confusion from reading the papers.
Lehman/It's been a difficult time for everybody
Gary Sanders/ok I'll end with this very brief antidote because I would like to see this
happen. And that is believe it or not I wanted to take a friend of mines kid to see
Mrs. Frizzles magic school bus that some of you might see on Nickelodeon or
wherever it is and they have a whole series of books and videos. Now I had three
choices: I could go to the Adler Theatre in Davenport; I could go to the
Paramount Theatre in Cedar Rapids or I could sit on the floor at Old Capitol Mall.
That was my choice. I hope we can get a Theatre here for those kind of events.
Non University community based.
Kanner/En~ie since we're going so late I would request that we here from other folks that
want to speak on this issues.
Lehn~an/We'll I see three people standing. We going to take those three than we're going
to discuss it with Council then we're going to vote on it. We can't go for ever. Go
ahead.
Rita Offut/I just moved back from being out of town for three years and obviously things
have changed downtown and a lot of business moved and I know the city has
worked hard to revitalize I can see it in the downtown area and encourage new
growth. And I think that the Englert is like a gem, it's an opportunity for new
people to come or old people to come back to the City and do what they do. Iowa
City is a mecca I love Iowa City and I think that we support our Arts and that the
Englert probably needs more than the two hundred thousand dollars and I think
you know that it will ultimately pay it back. People will come to the city, go to the
restaurants and revitalize the town. I've seen it in Monzula Montana and
Albuquerque and other places and community theatres have revitalized their
towns. I mean this is an opportunity. I know it seems really awful your going to
spend so much money and its our money. We have the Kiosks but that's not why
people are going to come to Iowa City downtown, they are going to come to the
Englert. They will come, and that's part of what our responsibility is and I'm very
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excited about the concept and I hope this really happens, cause I'll be, I just hope
that this happens and that I trust you'll make a good call. I hope.
Lehman/thank you
Larry Knight/Hi my names is Larry Knight I live on Plaenview Dr. I'm going to be
booed when I get done. Like these other folks are being clapped at. I do think the
Englert is a good thing to save but I don't think the City should be getting into it. I
think that we have many more things we should spend our money on. This has
come around way to quick we can't look at the long term effects of what we may
spend $200,000 they can't come up with the money. Maybe we don't end up
losing any money but they're going to be back well we want the $650,000 now.
You know its time for the city to look at what has to be done now and if these
folks can't come up with the money on their own you know I'm sorry for them,
I'm sorry for the Englert but you know its time to move on. If we start doing
projects like this, you got people coming to you every week wanting money.
You're going to have other folks coming, the Airliners for sale. Maybe a group
will come want to buy the Airliner save it for whatever reason. How are you
going to distinguish between this group and that group. That's all I have to say.
Lehman/Thank you
Bob Hamel/I'm Bob Hamel, member of the Englert Theatre Coalition but more
fundamentally a member of Iowa City Community Theatre and chair of the
fundraising and building committee. I have a heck of job to do. I wanted to begin
with thanks, 44 years we have skimped pennies and nickels out in the county
because we couldn't come to town. Our own community theatre can't afford to be
in our town and hasn't been able to. I give thanks for the membership of the
coalition that has really struggled to find a way to make a dream become reality.
We never have enough money, none of us do. But I want to just highlight briefly
and finally and tell how expensive it is to produce the arts. That has come home to
me not just for my experience in Iowa City community theatre but from the other
arts producing community based organizations that have been in contact with me
and with others in our group. A community, its citizens need to be able to create
performance art. Its not simply a matter of entertainment it's a matter of wellness
and well being and purpose. But that cost money and to find an affordable way to
be at a place where people will come is fundamentally important to Iowa City
Community Theatre. That's why our membership is so strongly behind this
project and to the tune of a commitment of $50,000 its all we got folks. We're
giving everything we have to make this go and we will stay with this project in
appreciation for whatever decision you make tonight but moving forward to see
the Englert again a performing arts center as it was built to be not a movie house.
But a place for the likes of Sarah Burnhart and others and our own kids. Enough
preaching. The arts can't afford to do it alone. Whether you're the municipal
band, the Community Theatre, the Sweet Adelaide's it takes corporate, civic and
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govemmental support in every city that it happens. Were no different than any
place else in that sense. Thank you for your struggle to make this happen.
Kanner/Bob a couple questions. One of the concerns has been about the newman
monson report from last year talked about a few problems. Not being adequate
sight lines from the side to see the other half of the stage and also not adequate
space to store materials in between the plays I was wondering if you could
address that and then I have one other question.
Bob Hamel/I would happy to Steve thank you so much. I've always tried not to giggle
when this issue has been brought forward. How many of you are familiar with the
facility that we've been in for 43 years ? Our storage space our two semi trucks
that have to go out in the field all summer long. We have less wing space than this
desk from the edge of our curtain to the wall. We have no sound proof. We have
trained a generation or two or three of actors and their children to be quiet before
they come on stage. That's a miracle alone. The report that you referenced Steve
it was a very fine report well done well worth the money that the City put out to
do that but every report answers the questions that are asked and the question that
was asked in that report was what was the potential for a civic performance base
to bring in traveling shows that might be on a smaller scale than what would come
into Hancher. And when your dealing with that kind of production that has to
bring set in bring in those sort of productions you do need the huge amounts of
wing space. That's not what's been proposed by the Englert Theatre Coalition for
this or by the Iowa City Community Theatre. We have 44 years of being used to
working with the sets we build staying there making them flexible. I could go on
and on but I'm conscious you had another question.
Kanner/Before I get to that so would you still need those semi trucks would you have
room for storage.
Bob Hamel/The basement is full of storage at the Englert if that's what we perceive. At
the moment our plan is to not give up any of our strengths. We would continue
having workshop and rehearsal space out at the fairgrounds where we are and
have performance venue like every other group would be performance venue.
That' s our plan at this point.
Kanner/And the other question is what's your ticket sales for currently ?
Bob Hamel/We have 960 season ticket holders. We will have to increase our ticket
prices. Everybody understands that it will be very expensive to do theatre in town
but not more than $2. That still puts us within the affordable range of theatre in
town under that $14 kind of limit. So that's good for our board. Its important to
note. Am I answering the question you asked ?
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Kanner/Well what was your total ticket sale, I have a figure here for projected total
tickets from the Englert. It was projected at 9700 tickets what was it for the
previous year that you have a full years total.
Bob Hamel/We have projected a conservative increase by coming to town of 50% so
what you take 50 how to do the math here
Kanner/Like 6,000 was the previous
Bob Hamel/Yeah right around 6,000
Kanner/And your projecting ticket prices to be what?
Bob Hamel/ticket prices to raise $2 for our performances to right around 14
Kanner/There currently about $12 and your saying there projected to rise
Bob Hamel/I'm looking to David for help, yeah, good, I want to be accurate and
numbers are not my gift. Other questions ? ok
Lehman/Thank you Bob. All right Council let's move along. Discussion on the part of
the Council.
Champion/Well I think everybody knows where I stand but I think I just want to repeat
at the formal meeting that I really think this is an opportunity to move arts and
culture forward in Iowa City which I think is going to help keep us a destination
point. I view this as a very important aspect of economic development and
keeping our downtown vibrant and paying for all the things that we want. I know
a lot of people disagree with me and this will probably cost me a lot of votes on
my next election but I would give them a lot more money than $200,000 cause I
think we'll get it back very quickly. In other ways, I don't mean cash back from
you. I just really think that we have to view this as economic development and not
as a charitable thing to give and I just feel strongly that we can control our own
destiny now. We can control our destiny by pushing forward with this theatre
instead of waiting for ten years and saying "Oh we really missed that opportunity
here, look at our downtown." I frankly am totally willing to give up several
million dollars worth of roads to get the Englert done because I think its important
that we control our future and I think the Englert can be the pivot of starting that
forward. I mean I could go on I'm not going to you all know how I feel. But this
is really important this is the most important decision your going to make this
year.
Lehman/other comments
Wilburn/If my comments about other project some of which may have not been germane
to the conversation were inaccurate then I apologize that was not my intent in fact
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through this whole thing I've been trying to give out factual information to people
who have been questioning me. But if we want to have a library that would be
relevant to the conversation and concerns that I have is that correct?
Atkins/Yes
Wilburn/If we want to have the natural areas manager from Parks and Recreation
Commission that is relevant to my concerns
Atkins/Yes
Wilburn/I guess what I need to hear from my colleagues is if we are to support this are
we conunitting to staying not exceeding the 25% debt service property tax levy.
Are Connie you said your very willing to not fund roads?
Champion/Well I'm not saying, I mean I'm willing to cut out of the Capitol
Improvements money enough money to finance this
Wilburn/That's what I'm needing to hear.
Champion/That's exactly I have no problem doing that.
Wilburn/The short term loan you know that's one thing, are we telling the group its this
$700,000 they raise $500,000 $200,000 they don't come back to us.
Champion/I beg you to do anything then look at it later.
Wilburn/I understand where your coming from.
Champion/Moving forward
Wilburn/I'm letting the rest of the council now what I need to hear in order for me to
support this.
Champion/Can I just say one more thing and then I won't say anything else I promise.
Lehman/Write that down
Champion/I want you to think about 30 years from now, I don't want you to think about
2 years from now and if I never do another public service I don't want people to
look at me and say "was she on that Council that extended 1 st Avenue or was she
on that Council that had the foresight who thought of buying this Englert Theatre
and making it into something, look at what its done for Iowa City." Looks what
its done for Iowa City. It is really, I've been to towns, I've had eight kids they've
gone to eight different colleges I can tell you that I've been to many many college
towns. I have only been to one other college town that comes anywhere near the
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quality of life we have in Iowa City and it was so ironic the place was Columbia
Missouri because they have this wonderful downtown, because they have worked
and they have put money into it and they've kept it going. And the community is
involved and I think we forget that we are the community and that Steve wants
free bus service he wants this I want those things too and you know where they
come from ? They come from commercial taxes not from residential taxes. So
let's keep it going just give it some thought. I'm not asking for $650,000 tonight
I'm asking you to move forward and look at it again in nine months.
Lehman/Ross, just to respond to your question. Obviously we have not finished going
through Capital Improvements Projects. In the six years I've been on Council I
don't think I've ever seen a year where every project stayed exactly where it was
placed and we go out three years then we go in to the out years. So obviously it's
within the purview of this Council to just projects or whatever. Where talking
about $200,000 this is not a insignificant amount neither is it a deal breaker when
it comes to figuring the budget. The 25% self imposed limit on repaying capital
debt is a one that it would not reach that point I don't believe for three more years.
Is that correct Steve? The 25% limit that we put on.
Atkins/The capital plan that we have in place now the borrowing we have planned does
not take us to the 25%. However the Library would.
Lehman/In any event, but then I think it takes it to 27%
Atkins/Something like that.
Lehman/What were saying is I don't know that those sorts of concerns are concerns that
we can't overcome because that certainly is within our power. I'm not quite as
eloquent as Connie is. I do think there is an opportunity here and unfortunately its
an opportunity that we have not had. A lot of times you sit down and talk and plan
about it and neither have these folks. They've been behind the eight ball every bit
as much as we have in fact perhaps more so. I had a concern about this project
when it first came up. I feel that there is a justifiable public purpose being served
by seeing that building being retained. I don't think I can support the Council
owning the building I don't think that that is a good policy I don't think it's a
good for the city to operate the building but I do think that it is in the best interest
of the community to see that building saved. We have from my perspective the
one thing that I was most interested in seeing and making me much more
comfortable in supporting this, and by the way half the people in town would be
madder than hell if I vote for it and the other half would be madder than hell if I
don't, but your not going to make anybody happy on this one. But there is an
arrangement here where if the fundraising efforts are not successful the only cost
to the City of Iowa City is going to be the opportunity cost of holding that
property for nine months. I feel that is a very insignificant risk on the part of the
City and I will certainly support this.
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Wilburn/And so your message is if they're not able to do the fundraising that was your
chance.
Lehman/In the contract.
Wilburn/Ok.
O'Donnell/So Ernie your going to support this?
Lehman/I am going to support it. The only thing on our agenda is a $200,000
commitment. It is a purchasing the building that is the only thing we're talking
about.
Vanderhoef/First of all I have one question and I didn't get a sense of who is the
numbers person that put together your operational budget ? Who can answer
questions to that ?
Daryl Woodson/I'm probably stuck.
Vanderhoef/Ok, line 16 property taxes you have a figure in here of $21,8007
Daryl Woodson/That is the figure that I got from the City Assessor.
Vanderhoef/Is it your intention to continue to pay that property tax ?
Woodson/Non-profit organizations who own buildings pay property taxes. Charities,
Charitable organizations churches do not pay property taxes. Non-profit
organizations who own property pay property taxes, yes.
Vanderhoef/So that is you intention?
Woodson/Yes.
Vandehoef/Thank you for the clarification. As you know I spoke out last night and it's
been reported in the paper that I support this activity. It's been said very nicely I
don't have to repeat all the opportunity kinds of things that are there. The historic
building is of great importance I think to stabilizing our downtown. One of the
things that hasn't been spoken of its been spoken of in general about economic
development and I've been sitting on the Convention & Visitor bureau board for
the last four years. We recently had a visioning and planning session a strategic
planning session and so forth. The thing that we need more that anything else to
help revitalize our downtown is to bring people to downtown. The CBD
continually is looking for new venues, things that they can market and they're
marketing out there in four, five, six state region. People are looking at how to
come to Iowa City and stay over night and have many different kinds of
opportunities this is just one more opportunity for them to market for Iowa City.
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Once we get people in Iowa City they all want to come back. It's very true
whether you've lived here as a student and you go away so many folks say I want
to come back to Iowa City because its unique its special its got lots of things to
do. This is one more thing to do and I'm going to support this.
Lehman/Any other comments by Council ?
O'Donnell/You know I agree with Dee and I agree with Connie I think it's a wonderful
thing to do. We disagree on how it should be funded. I respect your opinions but I
can't support it.
Pfab/One comment. I've always supported it from day one. I was extremely upset with
the way the present seller has worked with it. That was my only concern and I
never had any other question beside that. I will support this no question.
Kanner/Ernie will all do respect to what you said about internal workings not being our
concern I would like to comment on that
Lehman/Let me clarify. It's not that I don't care. I'm just saying from a financial
standpoint the city we have covered ourselves in this agreement
Kanner/I understand from that perspective but I think the more we invest in a project you
know if its ten dollars there is less of an investment if there's an $10,000 there's
more if there's millions there's more of an investment on many different levels.
And the more responsibility we have to the Iowa City community to insure that
this is truly a community project that benefits a majority of its citizens I think so it
is incumbent on us to ask questions about some of the operations. We need to
address certain internal issues with our $50,000 or more investment that's the way
I look at it. My priorities list of concerns and this is somewhat in order of priority.
Maybe number one is the idea of no movies being shown. My recollection in the
past couple weeks is that we were told by the City Attorney that we shouldn't
interfere with the sale between Central States and Pohl and talk about the no
movie clause. I think it's appropriate now that we before we sign this that we ask
that question if we can negotiate that away since we're going to assume that
purchase agreement I think that is incumbent upon us to have that be part of the
purchase agreement to see if we can rectify that. What's the price they're asking
are they asking $10,000 to allow us to show old movies are they asking $500,000.
I think its important that we do that as part of the negotiation. I understand that
there's interest cost that we have to pay for everyday that we delay if we assume
this purchase agreement. But I think it would be worth it for us to ask Karin to go
to Central States or the other name they're going by
Dilkes/Mr. Mayor I believe as Karin told you last time you meant to discuss this issue
that question has been asked that question has been discussed with the attorney
for Central States and the response was I thimk quite understandably since they do
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not know who will own this property in nine months that it is note negotiable
currently. It may be negotiable in the future.
Kanner/Thanks for that reminder in fact I think we should put in that contract that one of
the stipulations if we could negotiate this that we would only sell it to such and
such an organization.
Lehman/I think that's also specified. It has to be a non-profit organization that we sell it
to.
Dilkes/During the nine months.
Kanner/And I think we can further put stipulations in there to take care of the concerns
of Central State whatever that negotiation is. I think we can say to them tell us
what it costs what your conditions are for us to be able to show this type of movie.
Champion/That wouldn't be our concern would it wouldn't that be the coalition ?
Karr/Connie you don't have your mic on
Champion/I'm sorry
Kanner/Again I think it is our concern because this is an investment we are making. I
think it also speaks to whether or not this will go or my opinion of whether this
makes it a viable venture and if we're looking at it in terms of economic
development we want to look at all these angles. So that's one thing that I would
ask for Council to have as part of our motion and to see if we could amend our
motion to include that. A second concern is the idea of putting in $200,000 or
more. I feel comfortable with the idea of $50,000 and thinking that perhaps we
could work out a long term loan of $200,000 payable perhaps over ten or twenty
years. I think that's something that we can work as far as that price and I also
think that we need to take other dollars out from other projects and throw that into
the mix and I do have concern about that going over that 25% debt limit. I think
that's a good cap that we've been increasing our debt over the last ten years at a
tremendous rate and I think it's something that we have to be concerned about and
that if we're going to add this debt in from the Englert sale that we have to
considered what we would take out. I need to hear some more we can't say
definitely right at this point but some firmer commitments to that. Third I was
concerned about the renovation costs I took a look at it the other day and there is a
lot of work that needs to be done. I also talked to one of the coalition members
who I respect who told me that the renovation costs are reasonable and so I would
trust them and but I also think to be honest we need to talk more than $500,000
down the road. We are starting to hear more of that so that's a concern that I can
work with. The final concern is about the diversity in the management and the
board and the group that it's working to attract. I think that is a very big concern
of ours. I hear the coalition starting to make inroads in that direction. I'd like to
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hear a little firmer commitments on their part. I'd like to hear talk about
representation from groups that represent low-income people. I'd like to talk
about City Council appointment to the board of the community theatre and I'd
also like to see diverse cultural involvement in this.
Vanderhoef/This is a land deal. I don't think this is germane to what we're doing here.
Kanner/I think this is a community asset and it's economic development again I agree
with Conhie that it is economic development and I think when we talk about
economic development I think we have to look at these angels and see who it's
going to benefit and work as hard as we can to make sure it that it benefits people
that often don't get represented perhaps.
Vanderhoef/We're in a land deal right here or a property deal we're not into organizing
how they do their job.
Kanner/I would respectively disagree with that.
Lehman/In all fairness Steven I think we would all like answers to all those questions.
We don't have the time to get those answers. I think, the things you said I don't
know that any of them are possible for us to accomplish if we're going to make a
decision on this in the fashion that is required by the attorney. But the one, would
you like to make an amendment to this ? Obviously you've given us all the
reasons why you won't support the resolution as its written would you care to
make an amendment to change it in a fashion that you could support ?
Kanner/Well I don't know exactly how I would word it but my main concern right now
is the movie clause and I'd like somehow...
Lehman/You know we can't do anything about that.
.Kanner/No we don't know I don't think we do. I think we could approach in a way...
Lehman/1 think we do
Dilkes/I think we do
Lehman/Yes we do. So that one is I we're not going to be able, I don't think that long
term that may possibly worked out at this point there's nothing we can do about
that.
Kanner/So I couldn't support it if you feel we couldn't do anything
Wilburn/Call the question.
Champion/Seconded.
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Lehman/The question is called by Wilburn, seconded by Connie Champion, is that
debatable. All in favor aye. Opposed. Motion carries
Roll call - Nays: Kanner, Wilbum, O'Donnell
O'Donnell/Let' s take a break
Lehman/We are going to take a break
Dilkes/I'm sorry I got one more issue to raise. It's my understanding that it is unclear at
the present time which entity will be signing on behalf of the Englert Theatre
Coalition. I would like to see a motion to allow the agreement that you authorized
with the Jazz Festival to be signed by any not-for-profit entity acting on behalf of
the Englert Theatre Coalition.
Champion/Seconded.
Pfab/So moved.
Lehman/discussion
Kanner/I didn't quite understand that Eleanor.
Champion/That it might be a different charitable organization that signs the contract.
Dilkes/It's currently set up as the Jazz Festival signing it could be a different not-for-
profit entity acting on behalf of the Englert Theatre Coalition.
Atkins/Could you ask them to be quiet I didn't hear what she said?
Lehman/Folks could you please be quiet we're trying to finish up this motion. Did you
get the motion?
Vanderhoef/Restate it please.
Lehman/Do you understand what the motion is? Ok, now all in favor
All Ayes
Atkins/I have one before you leave. Just to make sure I am to put together this agreement
substantially as outlined there have been no amendments to that ?
Lehman/That's correct.
Atkins/Okay.
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Dilkes/Just so it's very clear since we have a signature by Mr. Pohl we do not yet have a
signature by an entity on behalf of the coalition. It's quite clear we can not sign
the Pohl agreement till we have a signature by the coalition.
Lehman/We've had a request by one of the Council people to move up an item for which
we have someone waiting and with the Council's permission we would take Item
23 next is that all right ?
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ITEM 23 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE EXTENSION ON
BEHALF OF THE CITY OF IOWA CITY OF AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN
THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, IOWA, THE CITY OF CORALVILLE, IOWA, AND
PUBLIC ACCESS TELEVISION, INC. FOR FUNDING, OPERATION, AND
MANAGEMENT OF THE LOCAL PUBLIC ACCESS FUNCTION.
Helling/Mr. Mayor you have an amended resolution and the amendment is that the date
was changed from April 1 to May 1.
Karr/Mr. Mayor can we back up one seconded. You need a motion to move it, I'm sorry.
Champion/So moved.
Vanderhoef/Seconded.
Lehman/Moved by Champion, seconded by Vanderhoef to change the order so we can
address Item 23. All in favor. All ayes. We just read Item 23 is there a motion to
approve?
Vanderhoef/So moved.
O'Donnell/Seconded.
Lehman/Seconded O'Donnell, discussion.
Roll Call - All ayes.
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ITEM 8 CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF LOT 1, BLOCK 3, RUNDELL
ADDITION, CONSISTING OF APPROXIMATELY 2,995 SQUARE FEET
LOCATED AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF GRANT STREET AND COURT
STREET, TO ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS WILLIAM G. FLANAGAN
AND ELIZABETH ROSE.
Lehman/Item 8, item 9 , item 10 are all items that are relative to transfer of public
properties and they are all because we have not address the method by which we
would like to value those properties we have been I think it would appropriate for
us to defer those.
Dilkes/You'll need a motion to continue oh no your going to have to open the public
hearings. You have to open the public hearings on each one.
Lehman/Open each one, there is all public hearings.
Champion/Can we open for all three at once?
Lehman/No we can't.
Dilkes/Probably open the public hearings, close them, continue them, then defer the
item.
Lehman/We open them then continue them we don't close them right?
Dilkes/Yes, fight.
Lehman/Open the public hearing, do we have a motion to continue.
O'Donnell/I'd like to make a comment on this one first.
Lehman/Please do.
O'Donnell/This is one where we asked these people to follow the process we put out and
get three appraisals. They didn't take the high appraisal they didn't take the low
appraisal they took the medium appraisal. They followed the process and I don't
see why we're not following this. I would like to see us approve this.
Lehman/Mike I think if we we're not going to look at our policy of transferring public
property we have already stated we are going to look at that policy that it would
probably be inappropriate to do that when that discussion is pending.
O'Donnell/But we set policy with these people. We told them to get three appraisals and
now we're going back on that and I don't think it's right.
Champion/I agree.
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Dilkes/I talked to Sarah in a little bit more depth about what her conversation was with
Mr. Flanagan I guess. I think there was a little bit more discussion than that about
various ways that one could go about making an offer on the property looking at
appraisals, looking at assessed values that kind of thing. So I'm sure it's quite that
clear but
O'Donnell/But these people did come to us and we ask them to get three appraisals is
that right?
Dilkes/Sarah had a discussion with him about different ways that people approach
valuing property that they want to make an offer to the City on.
Wilburn/She provided some options.
Dilkes/I think so.
O'Donnell/I just think it's perfectly appropriate that somebody goes out and gets three
appraisals and follows our policy we should approve this.
Pfab/Is that statement totally accurate that they got three appraisals?
O'Donnell/That's what I understand.
Dilkes/They got one appraisal.
Lehman/I thought it was one appraisal.
O'Donnell/We were told at the last meeting they had three appraisals and they sent us
the medium one.
Lehman/No they had one appraisal with a high and low ranges.
Dilkes/Yeah they had one appraisal with a range and they picked in the middle.
Vanderhoef/It was only one.
O'Do~mell/So we have basically the same thing. I still move that we approve it.
Lehman/Moved by O'Donnell
Karr/We need a motion to continue the public hearing till we get to the resolution.
Lehman/Well is we pass it we don't need to continue the public hearing.
Dilkes/Well but we still need to decide what we're doing with the public hearing.
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Lehman/Okay do you want to continue the public hearing or act on this?
Pfab/Continue
Kanner/Ernie a question for you what' s the information we're asking to come back to us
at the next meeting ?
Lehman/As a policy issue it has been brought up at the last meeting that the Council
would like to consider the method by which we assess the value of property that
the City will transfer to adjacent property owners. Most of the time that's vacated
street right-of-way its property with easements on it whatever but we do not have
in my understanding a set policy of valuing that property and because of this
particular property has no easement on it it's almost 3,000 square feet almost
equal to the size of another lot we felt that in the interest being prudent with the
publics money we should have a policy and we don't have a policy.
O'Donnell/It doesn't matter
Kmmer/Will we be getting a recommendation from the City Attomey's office?
Lehman/It was on the agenda for last night it was postponed because of the busy agenda
so we will be looking at that policy or a policy.
Kanner/A recommendation perhaps?
Lehman/I think that's correct.
Kanner/I would recommend to defer the public hearing.
Lehman/We have a motion to defer ?
Vanderhoef/So moved.
Karr/Excuse me no you do not your still at the public hearing.
Dilkes/Its getting late, we need a motion to continue the public hearing.
Lehman/I'm sorry you moved to continue.
Vanderhoef/I moved to continue.
Kanner/Second
Letmaan/Second by Kanner.
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Vanderhoef/To February 15 is that correct ?
Lehman/To February 15, all in favor, Ayes (4) Nays (Wilburn, O'Donnell, Champion)
Dilkes/We need to defer the item
Lehman/All right we need a motion to defer the resolution.
Vanderhoef/So moved.
Pfab/Seconded.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Pfab, all in favor Ayes (4) Nays (Wilburn,
O'Donnell, Champion)
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ITEM 11 PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND
ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PHASE IlI IOWA
CITY DOWNTOWN STREETSCAPE IMPROVEMENTS, ESTABLISHING
AMOUNT OF BID SECURITY TO ACCOMPANY EACH BID, DIRECTING
CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS, AND FIXING
TIME AND PLACE FOR RECEIPT OF BIDS.
a.
Lehman/Public hearing is open.
Vanderhoef/Mr. Mayor I will be removing myself for conflict of interest.
Lehman/Don't go home now. Is there anyone that would like to speak to this ? The
public hearing is closed.
b.
Lehman/Moved by Champion, seconded by O'Donnell, to adopt.
Champion/Move.
O'Donnell/Second.
Wilburn/This is another item on our Capital Improvement Budget just went up. Point
that out.
Lehman/For this fiscal year.
Arkins/Yes
Wilburn/For 2000.
Atkins/It's budgeted for this year.
Lehman/It's in this year. Discussion. Roll call. All ayes, Vanderhoef abstaining.
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ITEM 14 CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CITY CODE TITLE 2,
ENTITLED "HUMAN RIGHTS," CHAPTER 1, ENTITLED "GENERAL
PROVISIONS," SECTION 1, ENTITLED "DEFINITIONS," REGARDING THE
DEFINITION OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION. (FIRST CONSIDERATION
Lehman/This is first consideration and Heather would you explain that to us I think it
would be appropriate that the public knows what we're voting on.
Shank/Okay. I'm here today on behalf of the Iowa City Human Rights Commission and
the Commission would like to update the definition of sexual orientation in the
Human Rights ordinance. Would you like me to read the updated ?
Lehman/Please do.
Shank/The definition that the commission would like to see passed is for "sexual
orientation is actual history of or perceived heterosexuality, homosexuality or
bisexuality. Sexual orientation does not include participation in acts which are
prohibited by law." That's how they revised the ordinance to update it from the
previous language that was adopted in 1997.
O'Donnell/Heather I spoke with a member of the Human Rights Commission today as
well as yourself we had some changes suggested to us last night. I'm going to
support this either way but I would prefer and I believe the Human Rights
Commission would also prefer to do it as they wrote it. So I do support the
ordinance and support it as they wrote it.
Champion/So a yes.
O'Donnell/That's a yes. Well we were suggested a change to it last night.
Lehman/We don't have a motion yet. We need a motion to approve it.
Vanderhoef/So moved.
O'Donnell/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by O'Donnell.
Kanner/I would like to offer an amendment to the motion. I would like to offer an
amendment that the phrase "sexual orientation does not include participation in
acts which are prohibited by law," be struck from the proposed motion.
Pfab/Seconded.
Lehman/Moved by Kanner, seconded by Pfab, discussion.
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Kanner/I'd just like to state that I'm really pleased what the Human Rights Commission
is doing in updating this language...
Tape 00-19 side 1
Kanner/ ...25 years ago and its time to update it. What disturbs me about the phrase
sexual orientation is not include participation in acts which are prohibited by law.
It buys into the myth as you were talking about yesterday that there's concern that
homosexuals tend to be more pedophiles or something like that and this addresses
that idea that we have to protect people who would argue against equal rights and
I'm having trouble finishing my thoughts on that. But I think were as a
community were bigger than that and when we make zoning laws we do not
include the phrase "does not include participation acts which are prohibitive by
law." I think that we have a good community here an open community that
accepts all types of people and we should be proud that we have the definition of
the first part without the latter part. I didn't say that too well but maybe other
people might be able to pick up on it.
Champion/No you said it well. I think I agree with you that you think it fosters that view
that homosexuals attack children.
Kanner/Right which is a false view we know that's a false view.
Lehman/Well I tend to I guess favor the recommendation of the commission.
Pfab/I think that it leaves an unnecessary on those people by leaving that in there. But I
will support it either way but I think we should break clean and just say "there
people just like us let' s go on with our live"
Lehman/Any more discussion on the amendment? All in favor of the amendment say
"Aye" opposed "Aye" (O'Donnell, Lehman).
O'Donnell/Only because I want to support what the Human Rights Commission
recommended to us.
Lehman/The amendment has carried.
Karr/5 to 2
Lehman/Further discussion on the motion as amended ? Roll Call
All ayes.
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ITEM 19 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND
AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO
ATTEST A CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE CAPITOL
STREET PARKING RAMP LIGHTING IMPROVEMENTS PROJECT.
Vanderhoef/Move adoption.
Pfab/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Pfab.
Vanderhoef/Joe would you please tell what the alternate bids were?
Lehman/Lights, switches for the lights, why do you ask that in the morning at this time ?
Vanderhoef/Because I wanted to hear you say one more word
Joe Fowler/The base bid included lighting for levels b 1 and 2 in the Capitol Street ramp.
Alternate 1 included lighting for levels 3 and 4 and Alternate 2 included lighting
on the top deck.
Lehman/Thank you, is it still okay? Roll Call - all ayes
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ITEM 20 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND
AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST
A CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE 2000 PARKING RAMP
MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR PROJECT.
Vanderhoef/So moved.
Pfab/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Pfab,
Champion/Well I wasn't going to vote for this because its so late I thought the total
project was all those numbers added together.
Lehman/Maybe we should work on CIP right now, but you've decided you will vote on
it.
Roll Call - all ayes
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ITEM 21 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND
AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST
A CONTRACT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME
UNDER THE AFFORDABLE DREAM HOME OPPORTUNITIES PROGRAM.
Champion/So moved.
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Moved by Champion, seconded by Vanderhoef. This is the conveyance of the
property the lot for $17,000.
Dilkes/The setting of the public heating on it.
Lehman/The setting of the public heating to convey, now we all need to understand that
by conveying this property we have not authorized any construction of a building
but that we understand that the person who's purchasing the property will be
making arrangements to build a home in with the anticipation that we approve the
transfer of the property. Which is very unusual, so if any of us have any
reservations about transferring that property I think we need to say so.
Dilkes/Although I think what I told you last night is given that a public hearing on this is
required you can't really bind yourself today.
Lehman/No I know that so...
Dilkes/Okay
Lehman/It's kind of like letting the bid on the plan and specifications for the Iowa
Avenue Parking ramp we did not say we were going to do it but it's a pretty good
indication.
Champion/I think what you saying Ernie is if we set the public hearing that unless we
hear something that would really alarm us that we would...
Lehman/Yep, I think we need to know that at this point in time our intention is probably
to move forward with the project.
Pfab/There was only one question and that was whether the Greater Iowa City Housing
Fellowship was interested in, if they passed on it because of other commitments
and that was the only other alternative that I was aware of.
Kanner/Ernie I do have some concerns. I think what were weighing is the benefit of
being in the parade of homes versus attempting to get more bids which we think
we might have a better chance of getting more bids at a later time in the year
which would preclude us from being in the parade of homes. So in my mind I
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need to hear more debate on it. So I would like to have the hearing but I'm not
giving any indications that I would approve it at this time. And I think our goal is
to get the lowest house possible and that may overtake our parade of home goal
and that with bids we might get a lower price and may be able to sell it at a lower
price and it might be better to hold off and wait for those bids. And I think we can
still promote the idea of it being a green house.
Lehman/It is the opinion of the, I don't want to speak for you Maggie, but I'm going to. I
talked to Doug today and his opinion and he's obviously been associated with this
as I'm sure you are that there is almost no hope whatsoever of getting competitive
bids on this and this is why he wants to proceed with this obviously the parade of
homes is a consideration but the biggest consideration is the inability to get bids.
Pfab/I think there's something else. There was a bid but they withdrew it and this person
agreed to build it for the same money the same arrangement. So I mean I think the
bidding is over and the person backed out because either they felt they couldn't
make any money or they couldn't get the job done.
Dilkes/No, no the reason was that their not a bonded company and we require bonding.
Atkins/There are several issues. One we're anxious to get this type of housing product as
part of the parade of homes where it becomes something commonplace. And
secondly we really want to break the market with respect to green projects. That is
the overriding goal is to do that and getting on the parade of homes I just think is
to our advantage.
Pfab/The backup safety thing is that it was bid.
Atkins/Oh yeah, yeah.
Vandehoef/So what we really have is two people two different contractors saying this is
a reasonable price. So we had one bid and we have a second contractor who
saying I agree with that bid and I'll do it for that price.
Atkins/That's correct, in principal your correct.
Vanderhoef/So I think we have two bids in a form.
Pfab/Minimal risk and reasonably good market penetration.
Lehman/All right, is this a roll call?
Roll Call - all ayes
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#22 Page 112
ITEM 22 CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A REVISED
SCHEDULE OF FEES AND CHARGES FOR PARKS AND RECREATION
SERVICES AND PROGRAMS.
Arkins/Would you please defer that to the next meeting7
Lehman/Can I have a motion to that effect?
O'Donnell/So moved.
Vanderhoef/Second.
Lehman/Moved by O'Donnell, seconded by Vanderhoef, to defer to February 15
All ayes
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#25 Page 113
ITEM 25 ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES.
Kanner/Ernie got a question, if we haven't received any applications in our packets does
that mean there haven't been applications or do we hold it off to the last week?
Lehman/Marian can answer that better.
Karr/The applications you receive a week prior to your appointment. You'll be getting
them in this Friday's packet its an off week packet so you have time to review
them.
Kanner/Do you know off hand how many people have applied for these positions
approximately are there people applying for each of them do you know?
Karr/I know you have some in for the Airport Commission I know you have some in for
Human Rights. I don't know about the four vacancies on Historic Preservation. I
don't know off hand.
Kanner/I'll take a look at the book later.
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#26 Page 114
ITEM 26. CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS
a. Convention and Visitors Bureau
Lehman: Like someone to nominate me.
O'Donnell/So moved.
Vanderhoef/Second
Lehman/Moved by O'Donnell, seconded by Vanderhoef, to appoint Lehman. All ayes.
Champion/I don't think that's good though.
Lehman/What?
Champion/Cause you have so much to do.
Lehman/Yes but it meets the same time JCCOG does and or least on some occasions and
we have six people going to that meeting and I think that that' s an important event
that we should have our people and its once a month and...
Pfab/Also if you keep us informed when it is I would like to go anytime that I'm free.
Lehman/Okay I will do that and I'm meeting with Wendy on Thursday to discuss several
things with her so.
Pfab/I will repeat this for the benefit for the honorable clerk. I would appreciate if' since
you are now appointed you would keep me informed of when those meetings
might be so in case I could make it if I was available I'd like to make it.
Lehman/Okay
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ITEM 27 CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION
Lehman/Anybody that takes more than five minutes is going to be ostracized from the
Council forever. Whether you newly elected or old Council Member. Scratch
those three paragraphs.
Pfab/I pass.
Champion/Move to adjoum.
Lehman/No we have to do this.
O'Donnell/I second that.
Lehman/Nothing.
Vanderhoef/One thing, I want to acknowledge one of our employees, Mary McChristy,
the City Attorney's Legal Assistant. She's been elected to the Board of Iowa
Association of Legal Assistant as the liaison to the National Association of Legal
Assistants. I think this is a wonderful honor for her and we're proud of her and
say "way to go." I'll leave at that.
Lehman/Wilburn?
Wilburn/No
Letunan/Steven?
Kanner/A couple quick things, one we got notice about our staff looking at el presco
dining out on the ped mall outdoor dining and I think that's an exciting concept to
expand that and I look forward to seeing the report on that. And also as we talked
about briefly yesterday I look forward to our City Attorneys report on the recent
Supreme Court decision having to do with campaign financing and so I hope will
be able to discuss that in the future after we get that report from the City Attorney.
Thank you.
Lehman/Okay I got a couple three things. Friday 9 o'clock ground breaking new water
plant, everyone's invited.
Atkins/Meet at the church, Parkview Church, we're going to bus you up there.
Lehman/And I think all previous Councils that have been involved in this have also been
invited. Great idea. Steven you brought up something that we need to just bring to
your attention. We received a memo in the packet from the planning staff
regarding sidewalk cafes and they had a concern about new cafes and with the
concern in Iowa City, and I'm sure other college community's, with drinking
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difficulties associated with downtown whether or not we were still interested in
leaving the sidewalk caf6 ordinance the way it is but we will serve alcohol outside
on the sidewalk. Barring any comments from us they are going to proceed under
the assumption that we intend any sidewalk caf6 that has a liquor license will be
able to serve alcohol outside.
Champion/The rules that we have for serving alcohol outside are so stupid that I don't
think we need to worry about it.
Lehman/Well it allows them to serve alcohol and the question is are there Council
people that are concerned about serving alcohol on sidewalk cafes downtown
besides me? Obviously not. Okay then we won't worry about that. One other
thing and this is something and I know its late actually its early February 29,
Tuesday it's a Council meeting I believe there will be an open house at the 4H
fairgrounds at Montgomery Hall put on by the Army Corps of Engineers and I
think that might be worth while for some of us, I'm going. They're going to give
us there policies on regulations of the Coralville reservoir. How they do it and
what we can expect and after the '93 there's been a lot more interest. And the last
thing my son got up enough nerve to ask Jan Grenco to marry him and she said
yes. I'm very very happy.
Kanner/Congratulations, I forgot to mention on the meeting on 2/14 1 think we got about
three special groups and does the council want to see if we can put anything in the
late afternoon because its awfully full.
Lehman/The 14th we've got the Conference Board and the Library Board plus our
regular agenda.
Kam~er/Plus one other.
Lehman/No planning & zoning got switched tonight.
Karr/Can we put the mics back on if were going to talk about it. I'm sorry I can't
Lehman/Marian, Conference Board is scheduled for 6 o'clock, the Library Board for
6:30?
Karr/It's not scheduled yet. It can be.
Lehman/What's your pleasure?
All talking
Lehman/It is something that I think we could address on Monday afternoon. All right
why don't we think about it folks Monday afternoon at 2:30 is a work session on
the budget and we will discuss it at that time.
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ITEM 28 REPORT ON ITEMS FROM THE CITY MANAGER AND CITY
ATTORNEY
Lehman/Steve do you have anything today?
Arkins/No sir.
Lehman/How bout you Eleanor ?
Dilkes/I do, I've got one thing to tell you that I told you about today Emie. There is a
lawsuit as I understand it was filed this afternoon against the city. Its an open
records request issue. It was a request by an Attorney in Cedar Rapids for
information submitted with bid materials by the three highest bidders on the water
plant project. I determined that I thought they were public records and that I was
going to release them. Knutson disputes that and so were going to litigation about
it. That's what the lawsuit is about. I just wanted to let you know because it's my
understanding that it was filed this aftemoon.
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meeting of February 1, 2000.