HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-01-11 Transcription Page 1
January 11, 2000 Council Work Session 6:30 PM
Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Kanner, Pfab, Wilburn
Staff: Franklin, Davidson, Karr, Fosse, Schmadeke, Herting, Trueblood, O'Malley,
Robinson, Atkins, Helling
Tapes: 00-5, both sides; 00-6, Side 1
Englert Theater
Ernie Lehman/Steve I think we'll start, first I think tonight is going to be a work session,
we're going to be discussing Englert Theater of which I have an extra couple
copies if anybody wants one. Why don't you walk us through this?
Steve Atkins/OK.
Lehman/Real quick, instead of (can't hear) seeing us get the memorandum and have to
digest them.
Atkins/Yes there was really no choice in this matter but.
Lehman/No, I know but you could kind of walk us through it.
Atkins/OK well what you asked last evening after your discussion was for me to sort of
put down on a piece of paper or pieces of paper an indication of what I thought I
heard you say last evening as well as during the day today to Karen's good efforts
we were able to find out some additional information which would hopefully
provide you more and hopefully help you through this decision making. At the
top of page 2 I'd like to think that that paragraph kind of summarizes what I
thought you said that is that it was your interest and the specific terms and
conditions which I'm assuming you'll discuss tonight that the city would purchase
the Englert Theater property at the price paid by Mr. Pohl. The purpose of this is
the City's ownership would allow the citizen's group greater time to raise moneys
as well as create a nonprofit corporation to manage the theater at some time in the
future. But the City Council's participation which is an expression of intent
allows them to and I quote "buy some time" so that they don't feel stampeded in
their fundraising and that again based on terms and conditions if after the
specified period of time whatever that is the citizen's group did not raise the
significant funds or fulfill any of the expectations you spelled out as the owner of
the property it would be the city's intent to place the theater back on the open
market for sale. I sense no interest on the part of the City Council in managing
this theater or as an operation of the city government. Again the real bottom line
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is were "buying some time." The following points of discussion I think are pretty
straight forward, I did under point three take some time to embellish that a tad bit
more, I think we have to understand that it appears that this project is more in the
neighborhood of $1.2 million dollar commitment on the part of the community
that includes the citizen's group as well as the City Council and that we need to
know that number and have that out in front of us. Beyond all of that Emie and
members of the Council there are a couple things I would like to add that we
worked on this afternoon which you need to know. In that property there is one
apartment building and five rooming houses, we reviewed the inspection records
and I would consider those records indicate that those properties may be marginal
so those people if you were to own this property would have to vacate. That
doesn't mean immediately but some sort of and they would have to leave that
property because we suggest that if you purchase it that it be closed. And kept
closed particularly for any kind of regular performances and that maybe as a fund-
raiser or something such as that you might be able to use the theater. We
understand the heating system, the boilers are in generally good shape, to the best
of our knowledge there are no environmental issues to deal with and as we know
it today it appears that the closing would probably not occur until the 241h of
January, that date's a little different now, we don't know those things for sure
we're just trying to report to you what we know. And with that Emie I think the
Council's question is "Can you fashion a policy position to allow the project to
proceed ifthat's your desire?"
Lehman/Well I'll start out Steve you mention on page 3 the cost of renovation and I
appreciate your concern with everybody knowing what the total cost of the project
may be. I'm not interested in indicating to the public any interest on the part of
the city in participating in the cost of renovation.
Champion/I agree.
Lehman/And if we help them or purchase the property which it appears that we're going
to do, the impetus for me is the ability that we may have to take a pretty good
chunk off the selling price and after having visited with these folks since early
November we've told them that if there is substantial commitment on the part of
the community that we would entertain the city participating in purchase. Now it
appears to me that our ability if it works out to be able to purchase this property
part of our contribution to me is the saving of $300,000 dollars up front and I
would expect that that group, I would like to give them a goal of $500,000 dollars
to raise during that period of time and that the renovation goes with the group.
Now I'm not saying that sometime it wouldn't come back but I don't want that to
be part of the agreement.
Atkins/What I would like to do and hopefully in order to help you out if there is
consensus on certain points I'd like to report them.
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Lehman/That's fine, well other Council people can speak for themselves.
Atkins/That's what I'm saying you put on the table that the city would not participate in
the renovation cost.
Lehman/I think that should be, I would like to start out that way.
Champion/And I don't think they expect us to, I mean that's my understanding that they
think it's great I mean of running the theater for the renovation but the heating and
cooling system are sound, structurally sound that they can use that building with
very minor construction done to it.
Lehman/Initially, initially.
Champion/And I don't think the City can participate in renovation of it.
Atkins/Now please understand that I don't know how good the boiler is but as we
understand that the.
Champion/Well they had an architect look at it.
Atkins/OK, I mean there are things that I'm just reporting to you to the best of our
knowledge in the few hours we had to work this up for you. OK.
???man/Does the rest of the?
Lehman/Yea Irvin.
Pfab/Well on the second paragraph on the first page about three lines up it says we
understand the deed restriction prohibits use of the Englert property by future
owners as a movie theater, now that's not what I was.
Champion/It's first run movies.
Atkins/No.
Vanderhoef/No.
Atkins/No movies.
Vanderhoef/No movies.
Pfab/So there goes the income.
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Lehman/No I don't think that's true because I think they have other things in mind but.
Champion/I thought.
Atkins/Well there's no, iflrvin's point, Irvin's point is there is no income from movie
theaters he's correct, there is no income from movies. That's a deed restriction as
we understand it.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Atkins/Now remember folks we're doing this without reading the deed, reading the
purchase, OK.
Champion/And how long Karen would that (can't hear) continue?
Karen Franklin/Forever. Forever assuming nothing could be negotiated otherwise as it is
in the deed restriction between Central States and Mr. Pohl it is a prohibition on
top, film, electronic, or satellite transmission. So any revenue then from this and
here were talking at the point at which it's under the osmosis of the not for profit.
Any revenue that they would raise would have to be from uses of that property
other than as a movie theater.
Ross Wilburn/If we don't do this as Mr. Pohl has withdraw his offer to the coalition?
Lehman/Not that I'm aware of.
Atkins/We don't know, to my knowledge no.
Wilburn/OK.
Pfab/Another question, has, who owns it at this point?
Atkins/Central States Theaters.
Pfab/Well why go through the cost of two closings, two sets of revenue stamps, what
goes on here?
Lehman/There may not be that, it hasn't, they haven't closed on this yet.
Atkins/Please understand there' s nothing skulldugerous as I understand, Central States
has a contract with Mr. Pohl, it's a legitimate contract and that they're both bound
by it, they have not closed the deal, that's what I understand.
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O'Donnell/Because what we're doing is buying his option so that so there will be one
(can't hear).
Atkins/Now it is, is there the possibility of the city dealing directly with Central States?
That's something we can't decide, two other parties would have to decide that.
Pfab/Right, has that approach been?
Atkins/No.
Lehman/We haven't had time for any of that.
Pfab/Yea I believe that that's something that we should definitely look into.
Franklin/Well I think there might be some cautions there. There is right now a contract
between two private parties that we as a public agency would not want to
intervene into distorting that relationship. The discussions that we have had today
have been with Mr. Pohl as the potential purchaser and it all has been predicated
on him making a decision to purchase from Central States.
Pfab/Which he has already done.
Franklin/Which he has a purchase offer, they have not closed, until they close as you
know he does not then own the property. But fight now they have a contract
through the purchase offer.
Pfab/That they will sell it to him.
Franklin/That they will sell it to him and he will buy it from them.
Pfab/Right.
Kanner/And, do we know why we were told we have to make a decision within so many
days?
Franklin/It's a private, well, it's his desire, this is the offer, if we wish to entertain the
offer we need to give him an answer within certain period of time.
Kanner/So he didn't give us a reason why he wants to hear from us in 7 days.
Franklin/I think he just, he wants to proceed with this.
Atkins/Yea.
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Franklin/I mean he's been dealing with this I think since at least October and I think it's
just a matter of wanting to get on with things.
Kanner/It seems to me though that's one thing that I would like to see is extend the
amount of time we have to consider this, there's a lot of questions that I think the
Council has and it seems that he's in a win win situation, if he doesn't reach an
agreement with us he still has the agreement with the "Save the Englert" group of
(can't hear) back his expenses at least $25,000 and so that's what I'd like to see is
extend the time, answer some of the questions.
Franklin/I don't know.
Kanner/And expect the premises ourselves with our engineers and see what kind of
shape it's in.
Lehman/Well I view this a little different than you do Steve, to me we are assisting
another group in doing something, it's there, from my perspective it's their
responsibility to examine the integrity of that building and whatever. We are,
from, I have interest in holding that property only until such time as they are able
to raise the funds. I have no interest in the city owning that property, and I don't
know that the rest of us do. I know, I hear what your saying from a time frame
but time frame is Mr. Pohl's, that's his call, if he says I want an answer by Friday
and we have given him an answer or he goes on. The significant thing for me is
the difference in cost in the purchase of the property if it's purchased by the
coalition if you will at the end of six months at an asking price of a million dollars
or whether it's purchased much sooner by the City of Iowa City for $700,000
which is a substantial, that's the only only interest that I have in this project is the
ability apparently to save a considerable amount of money for the community if
they want to acquire that building.
Wilburn/Well coming from a non profit it's not uncommon or I think it's appropriate for
a government to try and help a group lever some funds. The question for me is
well there's two things that come up, one I'm glad to hear that your not interested
in renovation costs because that's too quick to try and make that kind of
consideration given that we haven't even heard you know about other areas of the
budget and we're just starting really with it. And so I'm in favor of trying to help
a group leverage some funds to make something happen or to save some money.
The part, a part and maybe this is apples to oranges that I found interest is that
maybe I'm not appreciating or understanding who the group is and the capacity to
raise a certain amount of funds and maybe I'm not appreciating how confident
you are that we would end up the city would end up owning the building. If, if
their not able to do then we'll just sell it given and again maybe this is apples to
oranges the conversation that was had about the library when the talk was about
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building a new one it's like well sell the old one, well we can't sell that. Maybe
that's apples to oranges I don't know.
Lehman/Well I don't think it really is, I think it's a legitimate concern, I mean I really
do, obviously a library, we're not going to sell it for another library. And so that
building has a very limited use, this building perhaps would be more easily sold
although I don't know that.
Wilburn/OK.
Champion/I agree.
Lehman/I think that is a concern. Now the length of time that it took them to raise what I
understand is $70,000 was rather short I mean like 10 days they had that money.
I've talked to a couple folks who are involved who seem to be fairly confident
that they'll have no problem raising the money. But say your confident and doing
it are two different things but one of those people is Mr. Summerwell who I think
is well acquainted with fund raising.
Wilburn/Fund raising sure.
Lehman/He was very active in the fund raising for the Scanlon Gymnasium which was
$350,000 almost $400,000 1 think.
Wilburn/Right.
Lehman/I do think there' s a broad base of community support for this project, but there
are no guarantee's, to me the risk that we take in that group not being able to raise
the money is small when compared with the benefit we gain if they are able to
raise the money. And I guess you know we weigh it and we've got to make the
decision.
Wilburn/My assumption is there putting together a more formal group like you mention
the Scanlon Gymnasium group, that was a very organized coordinated effort, now
granted there was a lot more time associated with that but.
Lehman/They're in the process of setting up a non profit group, they have an attomey,
they have an accountant, I'm sure they'll come up with a business plan. All those,
and this is one of the real problems, those things take time. My understanding is
we don't have that time, even if they, even if we do not do anything it will still
take that time to set up their group, they still will go about the process of fund
raising in precisely the same way they would if we purchased the property. The
only difference then would be if they are successful the selling pricing would be
substantial greater.
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Wilbum/All fight.
Vanderhoef/The other possibility that I see in this whole negotiation is obviously Mr.
Pohl is doing something for the community and he may well want to go forward
with his business plan if the money is not raised so I would, I personally would
consider putting a first fighter refusal to him to purchase the building back if the
community group does not raise the funds.
O'Donnell/There's questions that we have to ask ourselves as a Council. I too am
interested in saving this group a substantial amount of money to purchase the
building which I think has historical significance to Iowa City. We're looking as
a community with a water rate increase coming up, we're looking at a potential 3
½ percent tax property tax increase, we're looking for fund raising for a new jail,
we're looking for fund raising for a new library, as well as fund raising campaign
which is going on presently for a sky walk between the new parking garage and
the Senior Center which I think is very very worthy and am supporting. Having
said all that I would like to give this group an opportunity to raise that money
because I think there's a need for this specific type of community activity. And
I've got a great deal of confidence with to be able to get this done however I
would like (can't hear) put on.
Kanner/You would like the what put on.
O'Donnell/I would like a deadline put on. I don't want to own this building, I would like
to have the point in time where we are have made the decision that this isn't going
to happen and then put it on the market.
Champion/Do we say a year?
Lehman/Well nine months is the time suggested by City Manager which I have no
problem with, that's three months more than is available to them in their option.
Pfab/I have basically one consideration, if these people can't make it work and we end
up owning it, is it worth that amount of money with that deed restriction on it? I
would really like.
Vanderhoef/Appraisal on the building.
Pfab/I would really like to see a an appraisal an appraiser look at that building with that
deed restriction on it.
O'Donnell/It's a fairly legitimate question.
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Lehman/Do you have any idea Karin, I know the City has looked at that property in the
past but I have no idea whether or not we ever got an evaluation on that property.
Franklin/A tax valuation if you look backwards.
Pfab/But that was as it's going operating theater, as (can't hear).
Franklin/Right it was not with a deed restriction.
O'Donnell/Are there any comparable downtown recently that?
Lehman/Well there wouldn't be any comparable when you take away the ability to show
movies and I think that's a real point.
O'Donnell/Well I'm talking just as the structure itself.
Davidson/We do have some buildings that were displaced with the Tower Place Parking
Garage we have some research fairly recently.
O'Donnell/And do we not have a building now on Iowa Avenue that's presently for sale?
Davidson/We do.
O'Donnell/And that I believe is $1.2 million.
Vanderhoef/Is that the church?
Lehman/Yea.
Vanderhoef/Yea, yea actually that may be a good comparable because it like the theater
has it's peculiarities in terms of the floor space and change of use.
O'Donnell/I think we're all agree we don't want to be in the theater business.
Lehman/But does the (can't hear).
O'Donnell/And obviously we can't so.
Lehman/Does the group who's contemplating raising the funds realize that they're can
not be any movies shown in that theater?
Pfab/This was the biggest surprise.
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Franklin/I know at least one member of the group is, yes, but I've only spoken with that
one member, but news travels fast.
Lehman/Steven.
Kanner/Steve or any of the other staff how much interest do we lose for 9 months
interest income for $700,000?
Atkins/$20,000.
Kanner/So that's another thing to add.
Atkins/$20,000 yea I think I mentioned in there that there may be, if I didn't that should
have been mentioned, there's an opportunity cost loss.
Kanner/Property tax we have (can't hear).
Atkins/Your right Steve $20,000 would be (can't hear).
Kanner/So it's going to cost us property taxes $21,000, $22,000.
Vanderhoef/Per year.
???man/Per year.
Kanner/Or $16,000 plus $20,000 so we're up to $36,000 in costs, essentially that's out
of our general fund?
Atkins/Yep.
Pfab/Somebody has to heat it.
Kanner/What?
Pfab/Somebody has to heat it during the winter.
Atkins/Yep.
Kanner/Well just over the next 9 months.
Pfab/Yea but I mean there' s more cost than just those.
Kanner/There's more costs so maybe it goes up even more to $40,000.
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Lehman/One of the things that I would suggest is that the group that is anticipating
raising the money for this project has raised to my understanding is approximately
$70,000 of and they had to have 50 in order to buy the option. I would believe
that it would be appropriate for that group to use that $70,000 to defray the cost of
insurance, utilities, whatever you know, loss of tax revenue whatever for the
period of time that the city owns the property.
???woman/(can't hear).
Lehman/I mean that money is raised right now. And $50,000 of that they anticipated
having to give to Mr. Pohl anyway.
Vanderhoef/For the option and they were going to lose half of that.
Lehman/Well they won't lose any of it if they raise the money, it will go towards the
purchase price.
Vanderhoef/Right and if they didn't only 25 would be returned to them.
O'Donnell/I think we'd all like the luxury of seeing the business plan and what's
impended for the building and I know that's in the process right now.
Lehman/There isn't time to get that.
O'Donnell/There isn't time fight now. I would really like to see that and I'd like to see
in general the maintenance costs for this building over the last year, we're talking
a substantial amount of money.
Wilburn/I would, I think the 9 months is appropriate, I wouldn't want to go any more
than that, I think we need to make it clear that we wouldn't want to help with
renovations. I guess the point for me would be trying to come to consensus as to
how much we would at a minimum I would want to see them you know them
fund raise. I'm thinking and then even if we you know we set a figure, say you'd
thrown out half a million.
Lehman/I think that's a fair number.
Wilburn/I still would like to see if they exceed that the balance applied towards so that
the city would end up having to pay less. We had set a, the Council had set a
figure with Scanlon Gymnasium and that group had exceeded the Foundation had
exceeded by how much?
Terry Trueblood/$65,000.
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Wilburn/And that all was?
Trueblood/Just goes right into the (can't hear).
Wilburn/Right.
Lehman/I don't disagree with you but if there going to be saddled with the cost of
renovation and all that sort of thing I guess I would not be opposed to us
understanding up front that our commitment would be a minimum of say
$200,000 which would be the difference between the 500 and 7 because they're
going to have to raise considerably more money than that when it comes to the
other expenses. I don't disagree with you but I think because of the financial
burden they're going to have their probably going to use that, they're going to
need that money a lot more.
Wilburn/Yea.
Lehman/I guess the, you know we have two questions, we have more than two obviously
but one of the questions would be, would we be willing, if they can raise
$500,000 to commit $200,000.
Wilburn/$200,000.
Lehman/Of city money which would really be GO money, it's capitol expenditure and
would not come out of the general fund. Are we willing to do that or are we
willing to accept the risk of that group not being able to raise sufficient funds and
us having to market the building, I think those are two big questions. I guess it
kind of organizes. I think we need to answer two or three questions tonight and if
we answer those in the affirmative I think there are some other questions that we
may be able to get answered before we meet next Tuesday.
Wilbum/OK.
Lehman/First are we interested in doing it?
Champion/Yes.
Pfab/Yes.
O'Dmmell/Yes.
Lehman/If I mean, obviously if we get the right answers. Second would nine months be
appropriate for the amount of time given the group to raise the money? Third, is
$500,000 a reasonable amount of money to expect the group to raise? And I think
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fourth should we ask them to give the city the money they have currently raised to
help defray the costs of utilities, taxes, this sort of thing? Then I think we need
questions for example and I see, I did not know until tonight Irvin either that
they're, my understanding was that they're would, their could be no first run
movies shown.
Pfab/That was my understanding.
Lehman/My understanding now is that that is not the case, that it's any movie and I don't
know if there's any we could make any inquiries or find out anymore about that
between now and next Tuesday, I don't know, I'm sure that we could get you
utility records as to what it costs to heat and cool that building. I mean those sort
of things, although I don't know how, I don't know how valid, or how how.
Vanderhoef/They'll be high.
Lehman/Well I don't but I don't know what purpose their going to serve for us, if we
believe, well first of all if we don't believe that the public can raise the money we
have no business talking about it. Now there' s a group out there that think they
can and I've had and maybe you've all had a number of phone calls today from
people who think this is a wonderful idea that we should pursue it. I believe they
can do it, I believe we can help save a lot of money, help save a property that has
some historic significance and I think it's worthwhile, under those conditions and
I think there are other questions that we probably can get answers to between now
and next Tuesday. I'm not, I don't think that indication to Steve and the staff.
Atkins/What happens next Tuesday?
Lehman/We have a meeting next Tuesday.
Atkins/Oh OK.
Lehman/Well it's the next time we meet.
Atkins/No I'm just.
Lehman/The fact that we get.
Atkins/What am I suppose to do between now and next Tuesday that's the?
Lehman/Well no just the fact that we meet between now and next Tuesday, I think we
need to tell Mr. Pohl by letter or by phone call tomorrow that we have, we're
acting in a positive sort of fashion or we just plain don't think this is a good idea
and we're not interested in getting into it. Now I don't think we're committing
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ourselves at all by saying we're willing to investigate this further but I need to
know from him, we all need to know from him how much time we have. You
know when do you have to know? And in the meantime how many other
questions can we get answered?
Pfab/I have a question, I received one phone call that was very much opposed to it, I
don't know if anybody else did and I thought now maybe might be a chance for us
just to make any comments that we have. Was there any other people comments
of one way or another?
Champion/I had no negative comments.
Vanderhoef/No.
Pfab/You Dee got no negative?
Vanderhoef/No.
Pfab/Did you?
O'Donnell/I had several negative comments, and I had more positive comments that the
whole problem is we just have to put it in perspective, we're spending X of their
money, it's for a community center, it's just how you enter this thing internally,
you know with all the other fund raising things going on in this community now
that they've just mentioned, I don't know if it's going to be that easy to get
money, we've got $358,000 for a sky walk, hopefully it's going to be better than
the sky walk that graces Dubuque Street, just a little shot.
???man/Well it's a lot cheaper.
Champion/I have another question. The reason I'm going to support this is one of
Emie's reason, it has the ability to save the group trying to raise the money.
Lehman/Save (can't hear).
Champion/Save us some money too since I think the group are willing to give them
some money to get this theater. Secondly the real reason I'm going to support this
is I think it's going to become a real benefit for Iowa City and it's one of those
decisions that you have to make now, you can't wait well maybe in five years we
can do this. I think the end result is going to be very positive I think it's going to
bring people to town, I think it's going to be used a lot more than any of us can
possibly (can't hear). Because there is a total lack of this kind of facility in Iowa
City. I honestly feel that they will make a profit, if a non profit organization
(can't hear) and hopefully those profits will go into other arts projects in Iowa
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City or other art related and cultural things. I think that's their intent although I
haven't asked them. I and so just as a citizen I think this is an investment to the
future of Iowa City and not just buying the Englert Theater and I just feel real
strong about this I just one, to clarify one thing, Karin is the $700,000 the
purchase price or $750,000 the purchase price?
Franklin/$700,000 is what is being suggested as the maximum that the city put into it.
The price and we don't know the exact sale price at this point in time but the price
is going to be higher than that.
Champion/That's what I was wondering.
Franklin/Whether it's 725, 735, 750, at this point I can't tell you exactly because we
haven't seen the documents.
Champion/So we don't know for sure if the $70,000 that we think they earned can be
given to us, it may have to go toward the purchase.
Franklin/Yes. In terms of your talking about it being used for utilities and taxes etc. as I
you know added up some of this stuff not including the opportunity costs that's
$34,000 probably for utilities and taxes alone, this is the building closed down
and I'm guessing on utilities. So if that money that they have already raised is to
be used to address the differential.
Champion/Right, that's what I was wondering.
Franklin/As well as the taxes and the utilities we're probably squeaking pretty close to
that, if they have 70 (can't hear).
Lehman/Good, good.
Pfab/I'm still puzzled about this law to deed restriction and is, I was always told in the
last two or three weeks or months that this was just going to be limited to no first
run movies and this was a fall back position. Now has have the buyer or the seller
made some changes or has been renegotiation in price? I would like a little bit
more information if I could if we could get that because my only one concern is if
it doesn't go through can the city get up and walk away with the money, the
citizen's money in the bank again?
Franklin/That information was from a principle of Central States and the attorney for
Central States. I don't believe that that information has ever changed, I just
believe as we have talked about it in community it was never right in the first
place.
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Pfab/There would never be a movie shown (can't hear).
Champion/Can you legally do that?
Franklin/On a deed restriction.
Lehman/I'm sure you can. I'm suggesting, may I suggest on the interest of moving, are
we interested in moving forward with the stip, one of the stipulations I do believe
that needs to be in this is that we have no interest in subsidizing the operation.
That we will not be involved in the operation of the facility even after it's
purchased. Steven.
Pfab/Are we making a commitment?
Lehman/No.
Pfab/No no just a minute, let me go a little bit farther, to put money into it or is there an
understanding that we will put capitol into the project when they, when it
becomes theirs or we help finance? Put money into their finance to buy us out?
Lehman/My understanding at this point is that our commitment would be limited to the
$200,000 which is the difference between the $500,000 we expect them to come
up with and the $700,000 that we are authorizing, or we would be authorizing
payments for. Now there may be incidentals for utilities or something else but as
far as the real estate goes but my understanding is that our commitment would be
limited to $200,000.
Pfab/So in other words we, the city, is making the commitment, we as the Council are
making the commitment to this organization that we will commit $200,000 of the
City's money to this project.
Lehman/If they can raise the $500,000.
Pfab/Right, I mean in the.
Lehman/I think that's the bottom line.
Pfab/OK well that's (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/$200,000 plus the 70.
(All talking)
Champion/No, 70 isn't.
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Vanderhoef/Well 70 that helps us buy it in the first place.
Atkins/My concern from you all is what our ultimate and I think Irvin said it, What's our
ultimate permanent financial obligation? And I heard you say $200 period, that's
what I heard you say.
???/Not any more.
Lehman/No, Steven.
Kanner/Getting back to you said there was some just it's a matter of saving this group
money well there's another factor in my mind is that to weigh against rushing
forward and I think that that's the major factor rushing forward, 7 days with a lot
of questions to answer. The other factor is that if none of this happens that the
Save the Englert group doesn't buy it we still don't lose the money, it's perhaps
it's not our ideal use of the space but the proposed plan for the space is to keep
actually to tear out the middle wall and keep it as a large theater. And perhaps we
don't like that but it's still going to be there, it's, there's no plans to tear it down
so even if nothing happens we don't lose that and we still have that theater as an
asset in the community. So I think that's a factor to consider and.
Atkins/Can I interrupt you Steve? I don't think you can be guaranteed that.
Kanner/We can't guarantee, no, I understand that.
Atkins/Just so you understand that.
Kanner/There can't be a guarantee on that buy the plans right now, and everything we're
talking about speculative we're, but the plan for Mr. Pohl is to keep it as a theater.
What I would like to see our group do, our council do is ask Mr. Pohl to give us
four weeks to make a commitment. That's his fight to say we only have seven
days, it's our right to come back and say give us four weeks because there's a lot
of questions. I would like to look at the lease, I would like to have time to go over
it with the staff, look at the lease. I would like to look at.
Lehman/When you say lease what lease are you talking about?
Kanner/Or the deed.
Vanderhoef/The deed.
Kanner/The deed, and the purchase agreement and other restrictions. I would also like to
look at past council history during the campaign, it was brought up a number of
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times, people brought up why didn't we buy the Englert to the Council, and why
they didn't buy it in the past and there were a number of good points made that it
couldn't be used for certain things.
Lehman/It wasn't for sale was the biggest reason.
Kanner/Well but I've heard other things also that the city wouldn't want to buy it
anyhow because we had people take a look at it and it couldn't be put to good use.
Now all of a sudden we're hearing something different and so I want to be able to
explore that some more in my own mind. And also I'm learning more
information from the paper than from our selves and that's not a good situation.
We're getting, the staff is providing the information as fast as they can but I say
we need to give them more opportunity to look into that. We just received this 15
minutes before we sat down and I don't think that's a good way to operate when
we're making this major expenditure, especially when the possibility is remote
that it will be torn down. You know the very worst is we we don't, we keep it as
a different type of space. So I, and another thing I'm concerned about is saying
$200,000 1 anticipated when Save the Englert Group eventually came to us with a
business plan that we have a chance to examine that we would be talking about
$50,000 to $100,000, I had no idea of what figure maybe my figure is unrealistic
but I had no idea that $200,000. This is the first time I've heard that figure and I
want a chance to mull that over and I don't want to have to make that decision in
one week. I think that's too quick a time this is some major money plus the other
money we would be out for 9 months. So unless the Council asks for four weeks
I'm going to vote against it because I feel that we need more time to consider it
and there's a lot of questions that I'd like to found out the answers to.
(All talking)
???Man/We need to know when Mr. Pohl has to satisfy his contract. When does he have
to perform this, does anybody know?
Franklin/Right now the closing is scheduled for January 24. I would anticipate that there
would not be a formal resolution, you have to approve the resolution authorizing
the or approving the purchase agreement which since their closing is not until the
241h I would anticipate that you wouldn't have that until your February 1 st
meeting but I mean that doesn't necessarily address the issues that your talking
about Steven but it that would be the point at which this Council would take a
formal action on it. Today what we need to proceed is a sense of the Council to
move forward with this.
Lehman/I think it's (can't hear).
Franklin/It ends or proceeds.
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Lehman/Right.
Franklin/When on that February 1 meeting when you pass the resolution.
Lehman/There' s another thing and just to address something you said Steven. My take
on this from the first time we were approached from the folks who are interested
in raising money and we told them if you and I think you may have been at the
meeting, if you are able to show a substantial commitment on the part of the
community mainly raising funds that the Council would probably be receptive to
listening to you. At that point we were envisioning the sale price to be in the
neighborhood of a million dollars. My personal feeling is that we would have
been asked to contribute more in excessive of $200,000. I think we would have
been asked to do half of it which would have been half a million. And I think that
we would have, not saying that we would have done that but I think it would have
been very difficult to say no if the community raised half. But the point here is do
we want to proceed?
(All talking, sounds like yes' s)
Lehman/And we're, obviously there's a lot, and by saying proceed I'm not saying we're
going to do it, we're saying that we.
Pfab/Keep looking.
Lehman/Well that we continue to pursue this that we get some more answers to
questions I think that part of that would be that we talk to Mr. Pohl tomorrow and
indicate to him that there is interest on the part of the Council in pursuing it.
Asking him how much time we have to do this you know so that we can get some
of these questions answered. Do we have, how does the Council feel?
Pfab/I have one question first. Now Karen your saying that you were told in no
uncertain terms by the attorney for the theater, the owner, the present owner that
they were never going to allow any movies to be shown?
Franklin/That's, that is what is in deed restriction that that is the language of the deed
restriction fight now, and I'm not saying that that's not something that could be
negotiated at some time but at this point in time the deed restriction between
Central States and Mr. Pohl is no movies.
Pfab/OK. Is it possible to unwind that before it gets more permanent?
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Franklin/Well right now we are negotiating with Mr. Pohl because of this contract
between Pohl and Central States. We can not get between Central States and
Pohl.
Pfab/But, but.
Franklin/So right now it's between those two.
Pfab/Right but I suggested to Mr. Pohl that maybe it would be, maybe we would be a lot
more interested if there was a possibility of renegotiating that so it's a first.
Franklin/We can express that.
Pfab/A first run movies.
Franklin/We can express that.
Pfab/Because once, and then why go through the second closing, if we're going to move
on it it can, and I don't know, why keep channeling money, throwing money off
on the side as we go down the road. First of all you have the right to show movies
which, this, when I came here tonight I was just stunned when I read this. I had
no idea that that was was going to be in the deed restriction and that changed the
whole thing because as it is it didn't take much renovation or change around and
an income streak there. We lose that with this until the remodeling is done. It's,
as it sits it has no potential for income next week.
Lehman/No but I think this also indicates that we probably do, there will be no potential
for income for that property for 9 months it takes them to raise the money. It will
sit there empty but.
Pfab/But if I go back to minutes, I think somebody said and all you had to do was go in
and readjust the projectors and you could start showing movies.
Lehman/I think that would be a (can't hear).
Pfab/I think that was in the some of the.
Lehman/No but I think that may as well very been said.
Vanderhoef/I think Irvin's got a point there and I understand this that we don't get
between Mr. Pohl and the owners. However, those were two private entities
doing it and there might be a possibility of negotiating because the sale was going
to a public nonprofit that you know if you wanted to have a children' s party or a
whatever and there might be opportunities to show movies on a limited basis if it
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Page 21
were spelled out what those were and they were non compete kind of things with
the commercial access to the movies.
Lehman/Frankly we.
Vanderhoef/We can ask it.
Letunan/But these are really things that the citizen's group needs to address. These are
operational questions that the City frankly isn't hopefully ever going to be
involved in. Do we want to at this point take one more step?
???man/Which is?
Lehman/Which is to indicate to Mr. Pohl and to the Citizen's group, now we're talking
to two groups of people that $500,000 dollars is a required amount of money.
Nine months is the time to raise it. There will be no participation by the city in
renovation. There will be no participation by the City in the operation of the
facility, if in fact it is bought. We need to know the time flame, I think the rest of
this $700,000 would be the maximum commitment on the part of the city with the
and also the understanding that if the Citizen's group is unable to raise the
$500,000 that we will sell the property, we will not continue to own it. Now, I
mean, do we agree on those things? Now there are a lot of other questions that
we need to talk about that we can work on between now and (can't hear).
Pfab/We agree to that providing that that information is provided that we need and we
don't find any more.
Lehman/Yea, all we're doing is saying we're, we think this is something we're interested
in continue, we want to continue to pursue this, we've got some other questions
but those, can we agree on those things?
Pfab/If the information that we have before us is correct.
Lehman/Yea, we do those things. Are we agreed on those items?
Champion/Yes.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Kanner/I'm not in agreement with it.
Wilburn/And we have an opportunity.
Lehman/What words would you change?
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Kanner/The time and the amount of money.
Lehman/You'd give them more, more than 9 months?
Kanner/No our time.
Lehman/No, we're not talking about our time.
Kanner/Well see to me that's important but also the amount of money your committing.
I'm kind of slow Ernie I need more than.
Lehman/No, I hear what your saying.
Kanner/I need more than an hour to decide these things, these major purchases, unless
it's an emergency, and I don't see this as an emergency.
Lehman/And we can all come back and say hey look, we looked at it, we decided to go
forward with it based on the questions that we don't have answered yet, we've got
the answers we just think we better (can't hear).
Wilburn/Purchase doesn't go through.
Lehman/Nothing happens, we're not making any decisions to do it. We're just saying
let's pursue it, get more information.
Kanner/But you are putting.
(END OF SIDE 00-5 SIDE 1).
Kanner/Of, amount of, possible maximum amount on the city and that figure goes out
into the city and that's what's expected and I don't know if we can afford
$200,000 dollars of the $200,000 and so I don't feel comfortable with that aspect.
Lehman/OK. How does the rest of the Council feel?
Champion/I think it's fine but I do think we should ask them for some time if possible.
Lehman/Well no I think we'll do that.
Champion/But.
O'Donnell/(can't hear).
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Wilburn/I'm fine now that we have an opportunity to have some questions answered
(can't hear).
Pfab/(can't hear) one more step (can't hear).
Lehman/That's all we're asking to go one more step.
Vanderhoef/Go one more step for more information.
Lehman/Steve I think that's where we are, we'll see to it that we contact Mr. Pohl.
Atkins/We'll contact the parties now.
O'Donnell/I think it has to be made clear that we're moving ahead this one step without a
commitment (can't hear).
Lehman/There's no commitment.
O'Donnell/(can't hear).
Atkins/So we understand each other also, when you were 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 'ing it I'm going to
go back to the tape and list all those things to make sure we aren't (can't hear).
Lehman/That's fine, the other one that I didn't include that I think we should is that the
moneys that have been raised at this point will be used by you know by the city
and part of it may be needed for the purchase but for incidental expenses to the
purchase but other words that $70,000 will be used.
O'Donnell/And (can't hear) expenses.
Atkins/Two things, the big thing that will happen if we're able to reach Mr. Pohl
tomorrow is that we need more time.
Lehman/I agree.
Atkins/And if there's a projection of that as far as I'm concerned the rest of it folds,
correct? I mean if he says I want it done now.
Lehman/Well we don't know what now is because we've never talked to him.
Atkins/OK. Well other representatives have and it appeared that that's my point.
Franklin/The amount of time being four weeks, that's the amount that Steven.
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Page 24
Lel~nan/Well we can ask for that I think we have to.
Atkins/Council has to remember that you when you really decide this thing would be the
soonest would be the meeting of February 1 st where you would authorize me to
pursue a purchase agreement. You have to vote that up or down.
Lehman/All right.
Atkins/You have to say yes or no to that.
Champion/Would it be possible to, since we have that (can't hear) time to have some of
these answers at our next meeting on the 18th? Is it possible, how far long is their
business?
Lehman/Plan?
Champion/Business plan.
Lehman/Business plan I've seen a preliminary plan that they have but I think that
they've received some Council from their attorney and from the accountant and
I'm told that it's going to take. Oh I don't know maybe they can put something
something together but certainly a modified business plan is not going to be put
together in a week.
Pfab/(can't hear).
Lehman/Yea, I've seen a rough outline but their going to have to have all of that before
they can even go out and raise money, there's no question about that (can't hear).
Anyway I think we, there are a lot of questions that we have Steve and ifthere's
an opportunity for us to try and get answers.
Atkins/We will pursue what we heard.
Lehman/OK.
Atkins/But please understand Karin and I, Karin's repeated it and I will repeat it, we can
not step in between those two parties.
Lehman/Well we're buying a used car.
Atkins/Accept that, I'll be very candid with you, if we sense we're going to back out, I
mean regardless because I think there's, there's legal and ethical questions there
that I think we need to be careful about.
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Page 25
Lehman/Well I think that's fight, and we are, we're buying a used car, (can't hear) white
wall tires.
O'Donnell/I think there were some legitimate questions asked tonight and I (can't hear).
Lehman/All right.
Wilburn/Even, if, if, Mr. Pohl's agreeable to a little more time even though they can't
work up a full business plan I think it's appropriate to see.
Lehman/What they can do.
Wilburn/A letter of intent or something because many non-profits come to the city with
requests and have to go through hearings and give all types of things and I think
for process point of view that is important.
Lehman/I agree with that, the, one of the difficulties they will be experiencing is that
they are not even formally organized as a non profit but I think they have
spokespeople who could give us a letter that would tell us, all fight.
Wilburn/That's (can't hear).
Atkins/The interested parties are in the audience so they've heard what you have to say.
Lehman/OK. OK folks.
Atkins/Want to take 2 or 3 minutes so I can get set up for capital projects?
Lehman/Yes we will.
Capital Improvement Projects (CIP)
Atkins/What I'd like to do is begin the evening with just a brief overview of our Capital
Improvement plan. The plan has been balanced for the fiscal year's 2000 which is
our current projects through 2004 at the end of your budget document you'll find
a list of what we called unfunded projects. The Capital Improvement Planning
process until you've settled in and start spending money on engineering is
reasonably a kind of a dynamic process. Some of the numbers that we have with
respect to projects have changed already, we've learned of some available aid and
things such as that, we'll try to make those corrections for you. But there is one
correction I want to make if you'd all turn to page 30 in your budget.
Lehman/30.
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Page 26
Atkins/30. If you see the term the paragraph Debt Service Fund, in the 5th line where it
says 11.3 million, change that to 11.7. 10.7 on the next one is OK, change the next
number of 10.6 to 13.5.
Lehman/Your going the wrong way Steve.
Atkins/I'm sorry about that, well, we'll, the adjustment you'll see later on. What we did
was this was the early narrative and it just didn't get corrected, the budget
balances out to the numbers that I've given you and I want to get that correction
made.
Lehman/OK.
Atkins/Now balancing a capital improvement plan we obviously have to put together a
plan for debt that is borrowing. We also need to you to be able to identify from a
manner of perspective what we can get done. When we prepare these capital
budgets we are often at the mercy of other granting agencies and in this case we
have anticipated and I highlight the word anticipated receiving moneys from any
projects. For example the Mormon Trek project which we'll be discussing later
on, is a very complex array of state and federal aid. We make the assumption
when we estimate the cost of our debt that it assumes a favorable capital market
that is just like anybody else going out to borrow money, we sell debt instruments,
we have to pay it off, and ultimately that translates into tax rates and our utility
rates. We make a further assumption in our balancing process that there will be
no dramatic change in state or federal policy. Now we do have the potential out
there for the state property tax freeze, I'm making the assumption that they will
come to their senses and realize that that would be basically call a screeching halt
on any kind of economic development in the state at least as far as cities are
concerned. You do, a couple of you might remember that back in 1990 when we
opened the south treatment plant it was immediately out of compliance because
they changed the rules on us, well those kind of things can happen, federal rules
and regulations change. I'm assuming that and please no out loud laughter that
there is no dramatic change in the Council, OK. You do have the ability to
substitute, move projects around but remember many projects have sunk costs,
that is in his efforts in capital projects has somewhat of a family room engineering
where it's not uncommon for Rick or engineering staff to go into neighborhoods,
meet with a group of neighborhoods or neighbors in a family room about a
particular project. Well once we're there we're committing for you and so we do
begin the process of project commitments. Generally speaking you can assume
that it takes a year to approve a project, a new one, at least a year to plan and
design, and at least a year to build or construct the project. So very clearly it can
overlap a Council. Also projects and in this budget we're going to highlight for
you some of the economic development components. I've asked the staff when
they answer the question for example about a sewer extension, the sewer
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Page 27
extension may be to solve a particular environmental problem or issue but
simultaneously when you run that sewer out into undeveloped property it opens
up (can't hear) development. And so you need to know those kinds of things
because that will influence your decision making. We also assume that the
construction market will not substantially change and we generally hope for the
best, our experience historically has been that our estimating and our bid prices
have done very well. What I'd like to do now is have you take a look at page 122.
Now this is just to do a quick here' s how to read capital project, here's what we
do. Now I'm just going to look at the first one. The first capital project proposes
the reconstruction of the Burlington Street bridge over Ralston Creek. What
follows is a brief narrative of that project, then underneath it you will see an
assignment those numbers represent dollars. So in the case of the Burlington
Street/Ralston Creek project we are assuming that in the year 2003 which is when
this project is programmed we will receive a state grant of $500,000 and that we
will use from our road use tax fund $200,000 to pay for the estimated $700,000
construction costs, that's how these read. The bottom line on capital projects is
often a matter of timing, those financial, practical problems, if you have a bridge
that's going away your going to go get it fixed right away. And then political
considerations, and the political considerations are your value judgments, I tried
to help you out on those memos I gave you yesterday just to kind of help you
think about what's important in making capital decisions. We have over the last
several historically had a rather extensive capital improvement plan. And this
budget is generally in keeping with that same strategy, your priorities which you
believe is important will be applied to these capital projects whether you accept
them, reject them, reassign them, whatever contingencies you collectively choose
to put on a project. How you get there is kind of up to you all. What I want to do
for a couple minutes is have you turn to page 31 now, because this because this is
the one issue that's generally the highest profile. And that issue is Capital Debt,
in looking at page 31 you see at least the three years that we show for budget
planning purposes we do have a fourth year as an out year plan. Here's how you
read that top chart, if you look in fiscal year FY2001 we have a property value of
$2.591 billion, by state law we are permitted to have debt general obligation debt
in an amount equal to 5 percent of that value. As part of our budget plan and are
the outstanding debt that we now have on July 1 we will have $52.490 million
dollars worth of debt or we are at 41 percent of our allowable debt capacity. Yes
sir.
Lehman/Is that GO bond debt?
Atkins/GO bond debt.
Lehman/That does not include sewer water revenue?
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Page 28
Atkins/It does not include sewer or water revenue. Our credit rating and our position
allows us to sell GO debt for water and sewer to take advantage of the lower
interest rate. You'll note that little estimate number fight at the bottom, 59
percent or about 27 million is paid for by property taxes, the other is paid for by
utility. You with me? Our GO debt allows for a lower interest rate since we have
plenty of debt margin we use it to pay for water and sewer projects and thereby
the water and sewer fund benefits to the use of our overall tax policy OK.
Kanner/Steve, I'm just not quite clear.
Atkins/OK.
Kanner/On the debt then is that all of our debt including the revenue or just?
Atkins/No it is not, it is only general obligation debt.
Kanner/And so that 5 percent does that include all debt then?
Atkins/No it includes only general obligation debt.
Kanner/(can't hear).
Atkins/Correct. And that's where you pledge the full faith in credit of the city and the
full faith in credit in our case is pledged against our property tax and thereby
that's how you get those numbers. When we sell water and sewer debt we pledge
the assets of the water and the sewer system OK. Now fight underneath that
chart is an expression of local policy, we have a local policy it's been here long
before I was here that we will not spend more than 25 percent of our total levy
that is the tax rate levy for capital projects. So in fiscal year 01 we have proposed
a tax levy of 14.792, got that? Of that 2.988 is to pay off general obligation debt
thereby it is 20 percent of that levy. That is a local policy, it's an excellent policy
in the sense that it disciplines you with respect to how you raise your capital
money so and in affect we don't get over extended. Could you take the policy and
draw a line through it by resolution, the answer is yes. But Council's traditionally
have not done that. Another factor is our credit rating, we go through an
extensive credit rating process, our general obligation debt is currently rated
AAA, we are one of 38 cities our other jurisdictions in the United States that
enjoys that credit rating, there are very very few. And there's a lot of reasons why
we enjoy the excellent credit rating, one is the amount of debt, two is the speed of
repayment. We traditionally do not sell long-term debt, that is 25 years and out.
The management of our money, our reserve positions, (can't hear) the fact that we
have a plan that allows people who are interested in loaning us money to look at
what is your future capital project plan, in fact I think Kevin's going to meeting
with representatives very shortly, they will come in and review, OK what do you
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Page 29
guys have on the drawing board with respect to capital projects because that does
have an influence on our credit rating, now if there were state action with respect
to a freeze all bets are off with those credit ratings. To give you an example of
what it means, if we sold $20 million dollars worth of debt for 20 years the
difference between AAA and A and A is reasonably common is $1.1 million
dollars, so that's how much we save by way of our credit rating. It doesn't appear
on anybody's tax bill but it does improve your margins with respect to how you
go about planning your capital projects. We have capital projects pending. Yes
Irvin.
Pfab/Could you just go back and restate what that is if we sold 20.
Atkins/If we sold $20 million dollars of general obligation debt for a 20 year period the
fact that we're rated AAA and another community is A the savings in interest cost
to us is $1.1 million dollars over that 20 year life.
Pfab/Thank you.
Atkins/OK. We have projects pending, we have a library referendum, we have some
storm water projects, we have anything that you might want to consider in a
collective fashion being placed into the capital plan. It appears for sure that you'll
be dealing with the issue of a library. If you add that $15 million dollar library
into our current debt plan that represents about a dollar on the tax rate, so it's
expensive. And it will increase our allowable debt margin, we'll push about 59
percent, it's still not an outrageous number.
Lehman/In what year?
Atkins/In what year, in 03.
Lehman/OK.
Atkins/By the time it came on. And it would change our local policy to 27 percent, we
would go beyond the 25. Now of course that's again subject to referendum, that's
more of the impact of what a big project such as that can have on your debt plan.
We do not have the library in our debt plan. And what we did in balancing this
budget, and please understand again the dynamics of our capital project planning,
we've added a few projects, reassigned a few, pushed some off and we'll identify
those for you. But the four senior members of Council will recall when we did
our budget, we adopted a four-year $40 million dollar strategy that our capital
plan would represent basically $10 million dollars a year in borrowing for 4 years.
We applied the same principle here and added a year so this budget and your
going to think I made this number up, this budget represents four years of capital
with $39.9 million dollars worth of debt. And you'll see later on we nickel dimed
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a lot of projects, try to stay within that policy because of the extensive discussions
we had, the tax rate implications, the projects you wanted to accomplish, we felt
compelled to continue that policy, you obviously have the ability to change that as
you see fit. Now what I'd like to do this evening, lights, is the staff that's present
I would like for you to go to page 122 and I'm going to have, I'm going to just
start walking through these, please feel free to question staff, each of them has
knowledge about most of the projects in here. IfI sense and I will defer to you
that there is some trouble, some concern, I'm going to record it, which means let's
come back to it, I mean folks might not be sold on the fact that you want to fix the
Burlington Street bridge, if your not, that's OK we'll put it up there and we'll
bring it back. But really what I'd like to accomplish tonight is have you have a
feel for all the capital projects that are pending in this plan. Ifthat's OK with you
I'm going to go.
Lehman/Go.
Burlington Street Bridge/Ralston Creek
Atkins/First project Burlington Street Bridge/Ralston Creek. We're doing real well now,
we've got one out of the way. Sound off if you have a question it's Rick's
project.
Lehman/Steve this is the bridge project that was delayed when we did the other portion
of Burlington Street because of contaminants in the soil.
Atkins/Rick.
Rick Fosse/Yes those (can't hear) issues.
Lehman/Right and this is totally paid for by road use funds and or yea.
Fosse/And the State of Iowa.
Lehman/A state grants which means there's no cost to the city.
Atkins/Ernie when you say totally there is a cost use of the city, we use road use tax
money which is granted to us.
Lehman/I know it was I'm sorry.
Atkins/We use not to borrow on this one.
Lehman/Excuse me there's no GO money.
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Atkins/There's no GO, remember you can move around, you could put GO money
toward this project if you would so choose and do something, and if you wanted
to, so, these dollar figure assignments are best estimates, how to finance them is
sort of a collaboration amongst all of us. OK.
Kanner/Rick do we have to put the soil in any special disposal because of possible
contamination?
Fosse/Mid-American is studying the issue, but right now it looks favorable that we can
do the project without any extraordinary measures, environmental issues and then
the bulk of the coal hard contaminants in the soil are way (can't hear) to do this
bridge.
Kanner/Are they liable for if there is anything found?
Fosse/Yes, we have pretty good confidence that there will be a financial player if we
have extra expenses there.
Champion/And why are we doing bridge?
Fosse/There's some structural problems with the bridge as it ages, we'd like to get better
flood flow capacity and we'd like to put 8 foot sidewalks on it as well as the
center curb lane on that portion of Burlington Street so there would be a number
of pluses to come out of this besides just bringing it up to speed structurally.
Vanderhoef/And I as understand it we are getting the state grants primarily because this
is a state highway.
Fosse/That's correct, yea, we do need to be the lead agency and have the design for it.
Pfab/One question, is it delayable? And if so generally what are the implications?
Fosse/At some point (can't hear) we're going to have problems delaying it from a
structural perspective, I don't think we're to that point yet.
Pfab/OK.
Fosse/The other aspect is that the state has programmed the money for it, if we delay it
on our end that money may get away from us.
Pfab/OK it's deterioration plus the availability of state funds.
Atkins/Yes.
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Fosse/The opportunity there.
Atkins/And I want to pick up where Irvin left off, many of our projects quite honestly are
availability, when the money is available we like to take advantage of it because it
will get reprogrammed somewhere else if we don't so we, as a matter of our
routine policy we maintain about a million dollar balance in our mad use tax fund
and the purpose of keeping that balance is just for that, all of a sudden some
money might become available for a street project we then have the ability to
move quickly through the use of cash to fulfill our obligations.
Park Road Bridge Approach
Atkins/Park Road bridge approach. Rick.
Fosse/That's one if you've noticed the dip at the west end of the bridge it just continues
to increase, it's something we need to get in and do some maintenance on.
Benton/Riverside
Atkins/Benton/Riverside, new turn lane.
Fosse/Yes, that's something we intend to do in conjunction with the (can't hear) park
and that's really the weak link in that intersection right now, that's where we
expect we can get some improvement in the overall capacity in that over section
by providing that fight turn lane there.
Lehman/Does that require the removal of that, or removing that great big electrical
tower?
Fosse/We're working through that fight now, we think we can get a 30 foot radius on
that on the return there and still maintain 18 inches of clearance between the edge
of the tower and the face of the curb.
Lehman/OK.
Pfab/I'm just, I'm not able to picture by my.
Fosse/It's by the new McDonald's on Riverside Drive, this is that leg, west leg of the
intersection, excuse me the east leg, westbound traffic.
Atkins/Professional Muffler, McDonalds, gas station, gas station.
Pfab/OK, and what part of?.
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Atkins/Rick you want to draw it, we can draw it for you.
Pfab/No that' s fine, I think we're pretty close.
Fosse/Yea it would be for folks heading west wanting to turn north onto Riverside Drive.
Pfab/OK, OK so in other words is he going to build in a turning lane.
Fosse/Yea it would be a turn lan'e.
Vanderhoef/So we'll be taking part of the land that we already own that is part of the net
action space.
Fosse/Yep, we've got that land in (cant' hear).
Pfab/And your saying that this will open up that intersection considerably quite engineer.
Fosse/It will improve it, is that fair JefF?.
Jeff Davidson/Yea, right now right turners get stacked being through tumers this would
allow them to (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/How long a stack can it get on it?
Pfab/It can get long, it can get long.
Fosse/Back to Capital sometimes, Capital Street.
Lehman/But the secondly you can't go past the.
Vanderhoef/But the stack fight turn can't go onto the bridge.
Fosse/No.
Kanner/How will this affect bicyclists?
Fosse/The turn or on the trail?
Kanner/Well both.
Fosse/Both, I think if we can reduce congestion I see this positive thing for bicyclists.
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Davidson/I think most of the bicyclists going east/west at the present time are on the
sidewalk, at least that's what we've observed, and of course the north/south
movements are going to be moved from the Riverside Drive sidewalk to the trail
once the trail is open, I mean it's open now so in the spring we would imagine a
lot of people that were formally using the sidewalk would be on the trail (can't
hear).
Fosse/So they'll be away from the intersection completely.
O'Donnell/Anytime you move traffic smoothly or more smoothly through it your going
to improve the safety of the bicyclists, so cars aren't stacking up.
Pfab/That or fireman.
Vanderhoef/That is the comer though that we had a letter on recently about bicyclists
trying to cross there and the movement of traffic through there on right right on
red and how they were moving so far forward that the bicyclists couldn't get
through and they were asking for us to look at that and see about the safety of
bicyclists using the crossing lights to try and get across because the turning folk
were basically cutting them off.
Fosse/OK, we'll check into that.
Atkins/OK. The next three projects are biennial and Rick I'd like you for you to just
take a minute because again with some new council members explain why we do
these projects every two years as oppose to annually.
Fosse/Most of your biennial projects are maintenance which is some of our best dollars
we can spend to extend the life of our facilities. We found especially in the case
last Fall, the chip seal and also with the PCC maintenance that if we can do it
every other year we can put together a project of magnitude that can attract more
bidders and get us a better price, and that's why you see that and it's more
efficient for staff wise to do it that way. The brick reconstruction project this will
be our first summer for that and I've spent a lot of time thinking about how we're
going to go after it, we've got a couple streets in town that are excellent
candidates but how to economically improve the situation out there I don't have
the answer to it yet, so this summer it will probably be more of a pilot project than
anything. We've got the chip seals, brick reconstruction, the PCC maintenance
such as we saw on Mormon Trek a couple of summers ago. And that's it for this
year I think.
Lehman/That was a great project by the way, and apparently we're starting to do some
grinding of uneven surfaces.
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Fosse/Right, our streets department is renting the (can't hear) amounts of a skid blower.
Lehman/That's a, you use to work on Burlington Street on the west bound, the one right
at the bridge there was some pretty rough, but that really is worked beautifully.
Fosse/Yea that technology.
Lehman/And it's a lot less expensive than tearing concrete up and trying to do it over.
Kanner/Sorry I missed what's PCC?
Fosse/Pouring??? Cement Concrete. Our streets haven't been overlaid the last.
Kanner/What percentage of our streets need that?
Fosse/Well probably about 60 percent concrete and 40 percent asphalt. And a majority
of our asphalt streets the vast majority is either covering brick or old concrete, we
have very few full depth asphalt streets.
Wilburn/Do you repair the biennial things do you repair on a as needed basis or do you
have a regular?
Davidson/Maintenance agreements.
Wilburn/No do you have a rotation or how do you?
Fosse/For potholes and stuff our guys are doing that all the time hut for our streets we
prioritize those kind of we're working our way into a pavement management
system which is a more computerized if you will broader view and looking at
different maintenance strategies, how can we best spend our money. We're just
getting started on that, working with the DOT to do that on our arterial routes.
Curb Ramp
Atkins/OK. Next page. I'd like to skip Captain Irish for just a moment and do the Curb
Ramp. This is also a project where we've increased the dollar (can't hear)
significantly like I think Council will recall that last year or two years ago we bid
it and we couldn't get any bidders so we made a much bigger project might try to
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do every two years, I don't know how many ramps we try to do each year, you see
them all throughout town (can't hear).
Kanner/What's the percentage that we have completed for (can't hear)?
Fosse/I'm guessing we're probably about 40 percent down that we can get doing the
city.
Davidson/When we do new reconstruction' s too we make those a accessible at the same
time if not part of this program but they get that done that way as well.
Fosse/That includes like asphalt resurfacing program for instance or any of our pavement
projects in an area, we bring those intersections up to compliance as we work
through.
Kanner/Is this ahead of other cities of our size in the 40 percent figure?
Davidson/Yes definitely.
Fosse/Another thing that we do differently is the red, the red color that it's pretty clear in
the federal register that you need a contrasting color and red is the preferred, and a
lot of cities choose to ignore that and I think their making themselves vulnerable
to actions related to that, it's certainly cheaper, that's why we have a hard time
getting bidders and that's why it's so very expense to do is to get that color in
there. I understand the other cities decision.
Kanner/So at this rate when we would be expected to have cuts in what's (can't hear)?
Just a rough figure, is it 10, is it 50 years is it?
Fosse/Probably about 10 1 would.
Davidson/It wouldn't be 50.
Kanner/Somewhere around 10 or 15.
???man/Just in time to start redoing the first ones.
Fosse/Yes, yep.
Wilburn/So you have trouble getting people to bid both because of the size, the amount,
and because of the color?
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Fosse/Right it's very labor intensive and also the color sometimes introduces some
durability problems and some contractors aren't willing to take that risk and if
they need to come back and redo that because they didn't last.
Captain Irish Parkway
Atkins/OK the next project Captain Irish Parkway, Scott to Rochester and (can't hear)
First Avenue Extended tied to together, tied together is a matter of policy and I
believe it's tied together as part of the Northeast Plan.
Vanderhoef/That' s right.
Atkins/Council indicated that when we do one we can do the other and then also reflect
into the Northeast Plan, so this budget represents continuation of Captain Irish
Parkway over to Scott/Rochester intersection in the year 02 and First Avenue
extended which I think we all know what that is, that also provides a water main,
a sidewalk. Just so you know for heads up, you probably within the next meeting
or two you'll be getting a memorandum from the public works and I'll be sending
on to you, we've got to get water lines in around down Rochester that will involve
some grading from First Avenue undeveloped portion. Council's policy have
been we were to do nothing up them that would imply that we were going to be
putting this road in. If we do put a water line in it does have to be graded so it's
going to be very clear public observation assuming you approve the project we
encourage you because it's a water line not a street project.
Lehman/When is the water line scheduled?
Atkins/Chuck.
Chuck Schmadeke/It has to be in before the water plant is finished which would be
spring/summer of 2002.
Lehman/So it would have to be done in 01.
Schmadeke/Right, this summer.
Lehman/OK.
Pfab/I have a question, you said has to be done, I don't understand the terminology.
Schmadeke/Well when you build a new plant it will be serving water to the commtmity
differently than we are now. Right now everything is centered on North Madison
Street and push the water from our plant at North Madison Street out throughout
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the community. When the new plant is built we'll be pumping water through our
ground storage reservoirs that are located more on the parameter's of the city then
feed back into the community and one of those reservoir's located on Rochester
Avenue near First Avenue and we need to get a new water main from the new
plant to that Rochester Storage tank.
Pfab/Is that water main tapable for developers?
Schmadeke/No.
Pfab/OK so that' s just strictly a feeder to the substation or whatever you call it.
Schmadeke/Tanks.
Pfab/Tanks.
Wilburn/And your plan is to go right out First where First Avenue would go or where is
that line, what direction does that line make?
Schmadeke/It starts at the new plant site and then we'll be constructing that portion out
and it will go south of Foster Road, east to Dubuque Street and that project is
under construction and it stops there and then you pick it up again and then it will
eventually travel through Foster Road (can't hear) Foster Road through Dubuque
to Prairie Du Chien.
Vanderhoef/(can't hear).
Wilburn/No I know Prairie Du Chien I'm trying to think which direction (can't hear).
(can't hear).
Kanner/Can you show it from the beginning Chuck please.
Atkins/Chuck.
Schmadeke/The new plant is located right here, we're currently running the water main
south to.
Franklin/Pull the mic over Chuck please.
Schmadeke/South to Foster Road and then east to Dubuque Street, it will then with the
next contract it will follow along proposed Foster Road to Prairie Du Chien in this
area here. And then east to along parallel to the interstate probably 400 to 500
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feet south of the interstate through an easement over to about right in here and
then south to Dubuque Road.
Pfab/To where?
Schmadeke/Dubuque Road.
Vanderhoef/Dubuque Road.
Pfab/OK I just didn't hear you.
Schmadeke/And then along Dubuque Road to Dodge Street and then we have a short
piece of it that's in the ground with the construction of Captain Irish and then
we'll have to continue it down proposed First Avenue to Rochester and the tanks
that's right end here.
Pfab/Does that dead end at that tank at Rochester or does it loop?
Schmadeke/For the time being it dead ends at that tank. Eventually you know maybe 10,
15 or 20 years depending on how the city grows there will be another, there's
another proposed tank at the end of Court Street and Taft Avenue.
Pfab/OK.
Schmadeke/That line will then extend out to be at that tank?
Pfab/And how big a line is that?
Schmadeke/24 inch.
Wilburn/So near First Avenue are you burrowing underneath are you digging on top?
Schmadeke/We'll dig from the surface down in the open cut.
Atkins/Several issues about this portion (can't hear) is the current (can't hear) policy
incorporated with the projects together. We will encourage you I know it's a
difficult political decision, it takes some time to deal about it, First Avenue.
Water line we'd like you to (can't hear) think about it, we've got to, regardless
what other decision's you make, it simply has (can't hear). Don't they have some
pressure problems up there too?
Schmadeke/Yea in addition to that.
Kanner/Well where' s the water main listed in here for capital projects?
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Atkins/The water main under First Avenue extended (can't hear).
Kanner/It's this water main here?
Atkins/Yes that's the water main fight. And there are some other water main projects
associated with this later on we wanted to show this one for you.
Kanner/And what's this cost then just for the water main?
Schmadeke/Yea it's about a half a million dollars it cost.
Atkins/If your, yea, we can split that out for you if that's what you decide what you want
to do.
Kanner/And where does that $500,000 come from?
Atkins/It would come from water funds.
Kanner/Water funds.
Vanderhoef/And what savings is there possibly of doing water main and street at the
same time?
Schmadeke/Well it would be hard to say.
Lehman/Well water main and grading would certainly tie together.
Schmadeke/Grading is the issue.
Lehman/Yea (can't hear).
Atkins/Do you have something else Chuck?
Schmadeke/In addition to that on that project there' s an existing 12 inch water main that
extends along First Avenue from Rochester north that dead end to First Avenue
and there's a 12 inch on Captain Irish that we put in last year and there's a 12 inch
running along Dodge Street.
Pfab/But that's not, that' s not, that's in use.
Schmadeke/Yea, those are distribution lines.
Pfab/But there in use.
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Schmadeke/Their the budding properties in certain water to that area and this line needs
to be tied in across that First Avenue section that we have a looped water
distribution system in that area, right now there's low pressure and low flow up
around ACT and NCS and the Radisson Hotel because that line isn't, and that
also would be taken care with this project.
Kanner/Chuck if they did First Avenue Extension was not part of this could the tank
holding tank had been located somewhere else or is this the ideal location and the
water main be connected to it that would (can't hear).
Schmadeke/The bank was put in in 1980 1 think.
Kanner/And so this is the idea location for the water main also to come down where First
Avenue would come there's a, there's no other ideal places?
Schmadeke/We like to keep our water lines as much as possible along public fights of
way so that we can get at them if there's a main break and their easier for us to
access for maintenance and that's why we chose First Avenue, it's really the only
North/South street in that area that's near Rochester storage tanks. You get from
that Interstate 80 line.
Wilburn/And so if keeping in mind if we were to separate the two if the water main goes
through and the street doesn't what does that mean in terms of your access for
repair and things like that because you had mentioned trying to keep it near rights
of way for access for maintenance purposes?
Schmadeke/Right well we would want an easement that's probably over width from our
normal easement width's that we could maintain some and access through there,
either have a trail along the route which we had in some places and so we can get
vehicles up through there.
Pfab/It would be no different than going along 1-80, the, go west or go east along 1-80
about 40 miles from the (can't hear).
Dodge Street Pavin~
Atkins/Dodge Street paving, Jeff I'd kind of like you to walk them through that since this
is the project of some consequence.
Davidson/Yea this is a project, excuse me, that is schedule for 2003 and it's actually
because of involvement of Iowa DOT has gotten a little bit bigger than what you
see reflected in your budget book here. Our project was originally just between
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Page 42
Governor Street and the HyVee basically, the state has expressed some interest in
extending that project at their expense out to Interstate 80. I think you've
probably heard there's a plan to reconstruct Highway 1 between Kalona and Iowa
City and also between Iowa City and Mt. Vernon, does not include the portion
within Iowa City however the state sees this link of Dodge Street as really being
the one within Iowa City that needs some work, they're willing to commit $5
million dollars to it so the figures you see here would remain the same with an
additional $5 million dollars funding from Iowa DOT. You might have seen the
article today, we have started the environmental assessment which is required of
the project and the archeologists are out doing some digs, and there was a picture
in the paper today.
Lehman/Would the tag try and be the same for the tar project?
Davidson/Time would be done as one project.
Lehman/OK.
Kanner/You are saying the $5 million will take away some of our costs from the city?
Davidson/No our cost will remain the same Steven, the $5 million dollars will basically
augment what we're doing and allow us to take the project out to Interstate 80,
basically from the HyVee out to Interstate 80. (can't hear).
Pfab/And there's a stick of Governor.
Davidson/And also to Governor right, there's a small portion of that that of course with
the Captain Irish Project that's already been finished the intersection area there.
Kanner/And is there any widening going on?
Davidson/Part of the environmental assessment Steven is looking at our alternatives and
what the impact of these alternatives.
(END OF 00-5 SIDE 2)
Davidson/Show us the impacts of all those so we can then eventually down the road
make a decision on how we want to construct it. That decision will be made both
with your input and Iowa DOT together.
Kanner/So we, before we approve the capital improvements we'll be getting the report.
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Davidson/Yea. The first step is the environmental assessment which we're doing this
year, that will take into fall, once we have that then further decision making on the
scope of the reconstruction can be made.
Franklin/Not before you approve the whole program, is that what you meant?
Kanner/Right, right.
Vanderhoef/But this a an 03 project so we can always change it next year or the year
after if the funding isn't there or the project isn't set at that point.
Lehman/Well but is.
Vanderhoef/But we have to go forward with what we're doing right now to find out that
information.
Davidson/That's right.
Lehman/But this project was designed to go whether or not the DOT did the Work from
HyVee on out to Interstate 80.
Davidson/Right, originally we had the project between HyVee and Governor Street
which is the most constrained portion of it, you've been up there.
Lehman/This doesn't depend on the state doing anything?
Davidson/No.
Kanner/And what, what.
Vanderhoef/And hopefully they'll be done at the same time.
Davidson/Yes.
Vanderhoef/So that's why the 03 date on it.
Fosse/I think the converse is true though that for the state to move ahead they need the
commitment from us that we're going to do this project.
Lehman/Oh yea. Go ahead.
Champion/All they're basically doing is expanding the project.
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Fosse/Yes and the previous Council at least the four of you may recall, the previous
Council did make a commitment to the project to DOT formally in order to have
this go on.
Champion/Right.
Foster Road
Atkins/Foster Road.
Schmadeke/This is $750,000 at least toward the grading and property acquisition for that
section of Foster Road between Dubuque and Prairie Du Chien along that water
line (can't hear).
Champion/Didn't we talk about not doing that last year?
Lehman/No, wait a minute, this is for what now? But no, this isn't for building the road?
It's for grading and putting in the water.
Champion/Oh for the water main OK, OK.
Lehman/Right, and that's what we did talk about if this does.
Vanderhoef/It's not paving the road.
Schmadeke/Grading the road.
Lehman/Grading the road and putting in the water line, right, it does not put in the road.
Schmadeke/And this part is grading of the road and the property acquisition.
Lehman/Does that include the water main?
Schmadeke/Water main costs are not (can't hear).
Lehman/Oh OK.
Franklin/Doing that not grading will then enable those property's along there that are
back in behind Shimek School for a developer to come in and potentially develop
those properties a little bit more easily than today because today we don't even
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Page 45
have the grading done but then they would be responsible for putting the paving
on top at least the 28 foot and we would do the over surface.
Champion/If we graded, put in the water thing which I understand, what happens to all
that water run off on a graded road when there' s nothing on it?
Schmadeke/We have done some preliminary design and there's I think there's 3 road
culvert's that have to be installed as part of the drainage, I mean there's a creek
channel that flows along the south side of the alignment and these culvert' s then
(can't hear) that existing channel.
Lehman/But do we seed the graded road?
Schmadeke/Right.
Lehman/Seed it so it doesn't wash away, yea.
Kanner/What was that Ernie?
Lehman/Seed it, grass seed, grade it so it doesn't you don't get any erosion.
Kanner/Can we do?
Franklin/Yes.
Champion/OK that answers my question.
Atkins/And another Foster Road, west of Dubuque (can't hear).
Schmadeke/That's under (can't hear).
Atkins/Iowa Avenue Streetscape, phased project.
Mormon Trek/Abbey Lane
Arkins/Mormon Trek/Abbey Lane, Abbey Lane/Highway 1 under design. When we bid
that project, when do you expect it?
Fosse/We'll bid it later this spring.
Arkins/That's what I thought (can't hear), expect it in the summer time the construction?
Fosse/Yes (can't hear).
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Mormon Trek- R/R Overpass/to Clear Creek
Atkins/Now the Mormon Trek/Melrose to Clear Creek Mormon Trek Railroad Overpass
is really one project.
Davidson/At the January 26 JCCOG meeting those of you which is everybody except
Ernie unless Emie comes as someone's sub we'll be basically making the decision
at that meeting as to whether or not this project moves forward. There's been a
requested commitment of $1 million dollars by the City of Coralville, $2 million
dollars by the City of Iowa City that if the board approves this project will go
ahead and if the board doesn't approve it it will have to be rethought because it's a
critical component of the financing of the project so once again at the meeting on
the 261h is when essentially there will have to be jointly by Iowa City/Coralville
and the University those being critical players a show of support one way or
another for the project.
Lehman/Jeff I was told not terribly long ago that the University's share the Iowa City's
share of this project were about 1.2 million dollars a piece, apparently that's not
right.
Davidson/Together I think that's approximately the amount maybe the city a little bit
less than that.
Lehman/Well we're showing a $1,750,000 in GO bonds for the two projects. $500,000
for the Melrose to Clear Creek and a $1,250,000 for the railroad overpass.
Davidson/Yea, Rick help me, oh you've got the sheet right there.
Fosse/Yea that's.
Davidson/I was looking for it, I, I, my understanding Iowa City's commitment was a
little bit, yea.
Fosse/On the blue part it's about $410,000, now that does not include aesthetic elements
to the railroad underpass and that's one of the things that the communities and the
University are talking about right now and that could push that price up a little bit.
The.
Atkins/Aesthetic mean let's dress it up?
Fosse/Yea.
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Page 47
Atkins/OK.
Fosse/I'm just relying on wherever it might. And then the green portion we're the
locally funded portion would be $750,000 Iowa City, $750,000 University of
Iowa and $2,000,000 in STP money dedicated to this.
Atkins/Explain STP.
Fosse/Service Transportation Program and that again is through the JCCOG Fannie
process.
Davidson/That's the money you'll be splitting up in JCCOG.
Lehman/Well I guess then the part that wasn't included is the bridge.
Davidson/So I think Iowa City's total commitment Ernie on both the noah side of the
bridge and the south side of the bridge is about $1.100,000, $1.200,000.
Lehman/But that doesn't include the bridge.
Davidson/It does include the bridge.
(All talking).
Vanderhoef/What's the $2,000,000 you just talked about then?
Fosse/That's the STP funds.
Davidson/That's the STP funds that have been requested.
Lehman/Then why is it that I'm seeing $1,750,000 in general obligation funds for the
two projects.
Pfab/He's adding two of them.
Atkins/He's adding two, $1,250,000, the reason is Ernie this budget is probably
overstated right now.
Lehman/Oh.
Atkins/Because these numbers yea.
Lehman/So the number I heard earlier was right?
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Page 48
Atkins/Yea (can't hear).
Lehman/OK, that's fine, that's fine.
Atkins/Jeff why don't you give them 30 seconds for us a particular, Mormon Trek is a
city street.
Davidson/Right, Mormon Trek Boulevard between the railroad and Melrose Avenue is a
University Institutional Road and part of this project, part of the University' s
willingness to participate in this project would be a transfer of jurisdiction
essentially the road being reconstructed to a brand new street and then it
becoming a city street. Which I thi~k given the passage of time since that road
was originally built, it was originally built to serve University facilities almost
strictly. The University facilities are now only a very small portion of what that
road does and so I think it's appropriate for it to be a city street. That still has to
be negotiated and ultimately you would approve an agreement with the University
once we get that worked out as to what the arrangement will be.
O'Donnell/However we aren't building a new University facility building on the comer
of Mormon Trek and Melrose there, the new Rec. Rec. building.
Davidson/But the state.
O'Donnell/That will add to a street that always has 17,000 cars a day using it so I, think
is a very worthy project to get it done.
Atkins/As you see in your packet this week, the University's got the 21 st, you've all
been invited to hear the presentation during the day about their recreation facility
(can't hear).
Lehman/Jeff.
Davidson/Yea.
Lehman/That project involves equal participation by the University and the City of Iowa
City in cash is that correct?
Davidson/Approximately.
Lehman/But I think it's important for us to recognize the land acquisition is strictly
University.
Davidson/Yes I'm just going to say (can't hear).
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Lehman/Now that's a huge huge amount of value on that project that's University's
putting into that.
Davidson/Yea they have agreed that the, I mean they have tentatively agreed that the
entire fight of way which is needed between the rail road and Melrose Avenue
that they would, that's at least in the proposal fight now as being contributed
(can't hear).
Champion/It's not because they're being nice they (can't hear).
(All laughing).
Lehman/Well no no that may be but I just think it's important that when we deal with
University to realize that when we first started talking about this project the
participation on the part of the University on this project was zilch.
Davidson/There was no cash.
Lehman/That's exactly right, and they've come from a no cash to an equal split and the
value of that land if we were going through private property, condemning that
right of way, would be probably significantly more than the cash we're putting
into it.
Davidson/Could be yes.
Lehman/So I just think we need to recognize that that is a significant contribution.
Pfab/Well is that, is that, does the University have any other part in the sidewalks or is
this all us?
Lehman/No this is the whole thing, sidewalks, trails, everything.
Pfab/This is the completed ready to go.
Davidson/Landscape (can't hear).
Pfab/OK.
Lehman/I think it's a significant contribution on the part of the University.
Kanner/Karin to get for me more of a total picture I've been heating that the apartments
out there, the student housing, they are either going to tear them down or jack the
prices way high. There are rumors that there might be football stadium built there
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and I was wondering if you've had any communication about what's happening
there.
Franklin/The housing units I only know what I read in the paper, which is probably what
your referring to and that was they were trying to make a decision about whether
to upgrade those units and put the money into them which would increase their
rent or not. All of the plans that I have seen, none of them have included a
football stadium west of Mormon Trek. What they're looking at is a swimming
facility as well as some other recreational facilities but I think that whole notion
of Kinnick being moved out to that part of the campus is a dead idea. But that's
one thing you'll see on the 21st if you come to this meeting is exactly what it is
that they have plmmed for that west campus.
Lehman/Is there a packet that (can't hear)?
Atkins/No, it'll be in this coming packet should be a note of where it is.
Lehman/OK.
Atkins/OK move on, 125, over width paving, this capital project will be made (can't
hear) it's share. River Street Rick.
River Street
Fosse/River Street is two-thirds done, finish it up when the weather turns nice again.
Atkins/Railroad crossing.
Railroad Crossing
Fosse/It's ongoing every year, we take care of a few, we had a pretty decent summer this
year that, the frustrating thing there is that the wait for federal money to rebuild a
crossing right now is about 7 years and that's going to be, we really need to have a
crystal ball to figure out which ones are going to be in bad shape yet 7 years from
now. If you wait till their bad, it's a long wait then.
O'Donnell/One of us will have to call Dee Norton then.
Atkins/This is the Dee Norton.
Kanner/Has the, has it been implemented the train changing or switching would be
moved out or is that?
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Davidson/Not quite, it's.
Fosse/We're close.
Davidson/The project out at Amana is done, and there's some negotiation going on with
respect to the agreement between the two railroads. We just checked on this last
week because we wondered why they weren't using the new (cant hear) now
that's it's built. They've got some things to work out that they were hopeful by
the end of the month would be done. So by the end of the month if we still see the
trains transferring cars we'll give another call and see what's up but the project is
finished and it's ready to go.
Kanner/Does that affect railroad crossings at all?
Davidson/Well it will affect it in as much as what makes the tracks sink down and create
the rough crossings is when train's go across them, and trains will be going across
arterial streets much less, much less frequently once they start using the
interchange out at Amana. So basically once a crossing is reconstructed it should
last a lot longer because it will have less train traffic on it.
Kanner/So that' s something outside of this projected 2004.
Davidson/Yes.
Fosse/Yea and the railroad also, they installed a modem (can't hear) called Wear Guard
crossings in the mid 80's and those turned out to be a disaster as far as durability
and we're getting those pretty well phased out of the community now.
Pfab/What was the term you use?
Fosse/Wear Guard, that was a brand name, their out of business long ago now, we're
hoping the concrete crossings that were putting in now are going to much more
durable.
Kanner/You mean a certain sort of like plastic.
Lehman/Rubber.
Fosse/It was plastic on top of timber.
Atkins/Would you do pavement Rick?
Pfab/They look nice the first time you go over them.
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Fosse/Yes they do.
Kanner/Anybody want this?
Fosse/For a about a week though.
Street Pavement Marking
Fosse/Pavement marking that' s one where we're working through the changes and
enviromnental regulations from the paints we were using to latex and Epoxy and
some other new products that are out there.
Lehman/Well I noticed that in the out years there was from 2001 through 2004 you've
got $50,000 a year, that doesn't indicate to me your using any Epoxy during those
years.
Fosse/That's, that is projected for an Epoxy program.
Lehman/Oh it is.
Fosse/Yea, once we get the city in pretty good shape Epoxy wise then we're only back
every 3-4 years.
Lehman/Right I knew that.
Fosse/And we're doing smaller pieces.
Lehman/But that's enough to continue the Epoxy program OK.
Fosse/Kind of rotate our way around.
Lehman/Right, OK.
Vanderhoef/So your please how the Epoxy is holding up?
Fosse/Yea we have been and right out in front of the Civic Center here has is a new
product from 3M that's suppose to compete with Epoxy so it's easy to keep track
of and see how it's doing and we're also looking at the thermal plastics and that
you can grind and actually recess into the concrete and we're considering that for
Mormon Trek I don't know if there are enough contractors around to make that
economically feasible yet. At the Melrose Avenue we used the glue down plastics
and we've been pretty happy with that except we have cardy??? movements.
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Lehman/Yea like South Riverside Drive.
Fosse/Yea.
Lehman/Those lines lasted about three days.
Fosse/Yea that tears that off, now where we could see a change in this is on the horizon
the Fed's are making some proposals for re~ectivity standards for lane markers
and if that's the case then that raises the benchmark for the performance of these
lane markings and it could take, it's kind of like a curb ramp, all of a sudden
we're going to be making a significant commitment to that cause, more significant
than we are now.
Kanner/Is there a significant improvement in safety and less traffic accidents the federal
studies have shown7
Fosse/That's what their balancing fight now is whether or not that should occur, if that, if
it tips the scales in the positive way and it looks as if their going to come out with
those re~ectivity standards.
Kanner/And I think a previous Council when this was being proposed asked about
environmental consequences of the Epoxy, were there any findings on that?
Fosse/No, we haven't had any findings, negative findings there.
Schmadeke/This is in addition to the striping and we do with our own street crews.
Champion/But this is (can't hear).
Lehman/Oh OK that, oh OK that, Oh OK, I didn't know that.
Franklin/Say that again.
Lehman/Thank you that's.
Franklin/I missed that.
Lehman/This is in addition to the normal meeting that we do.
Franklin/Oh OK.
Champion/Remember we talked about it two years when we started this.
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Fosse/And back to your question Steven, the shift to Epoxy is in response to
environmental concerns so that's, that's where the Fed's point is.
Kanner/As oppose to the paint which has other.
Fosse/The stuff with the high V of C content they view the Epoxy as a whole big much
more beneficial for the environment.
Lehman/OK.
Sycamore Burns to City Limits
Davidson/Sycamore Bums to city limits, this is a project to pick up the paving of
Sycamore Street where it ends currently just north of the city limits, on Bums and
take it down to either it could be a two-phased project to the city limits or possibly
go all the way down to the Sycamore L once again JCCOG will be making some
decisions on the 261h as to the extent of that project, there is a proposal actually to
take it all the way down to the L with a project that probably would not be
completed until 2003 or 2004, could be phased as a multi-year project, the first
year going down to city limits and the second year going down to the L.
Vanderhoef/And taking it to the L would take it then to the soccer field.
Davidson/Yea and the L of course is where the project we'll be discussing later the south
arterial to the very major project that will be phased in sections of that's where it
would meet, meet that road. And by the way when we install an arterial street like
this we basically reconstruct it up from the ground up it includes then 8 foot
sidewalk and 4 foot sidewalk on the other side.
Kanner/A couple things Jeff, one when we widen it from what (can't hear)?
Davidson/Well right now it's basically a county rural road, chip seal road, don't know
exactly what the pavement width is, this project is not designed, Council in the
last 4-5 years have used various standards for (can't hear) arterial streets and
that's something that when we actually get into preparing for the design of this
project we'll sit down with you and go through what the alternatives are and you
all with have to make a decision on how wide it is.
Kanner/Can you show me on the map where that is please?
Davidson/Sure. The lands right here, (can't hear), that's the city limits and the.
Pfab/And that's where the proposed location of the arterial?
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(can't hear).
Atkins/OK, traffic calming traffic signals and (can't hear).
Hickorv Hills Trail
Atkins/Hickory Hills Trail ride.
Terry Trueblood/Yea this is a project that some of you will recall from looking at the
past the $150,000 is allocated in FY02 to essentially to rebuild a number of trails
in Hickory Hill Park and extend the trails into some of the area the storm
management area that's park land. We and also went to the point possible to
make them accessible to person's with disabilities. Particular allocated here
would not for example include any kind of water scale or concrete trails, there
may be some of that like from a parking lot to a trail head or something of that
nature but this would primarily be probably the pressed limestone nature. We
have a terrible problem right now with washouts that are all wood chips. And one
good rainstorm washes most of the chips out, and it's nice from a rustic standpoint
but it's terrible from a maintenance standpoint.
Intra-Citv Bike Trail
Trueblood/The Intracity Bike trail is an annual allocation for a variety of things, yes sir.
Pfab/Is there a detailed plan on the making this accessible, is there a good workable
plan? What was the plan? Now that we'll follow all the rules and the laws that
changes our bid.
Trueblood/We have a conceptual plan right now it's in my office it was done before and
our commission decided to put this on hold, there was a, part of that plan was to
put a spine trail is what it was called, asphalt going east and west and another one
going north and south to make it easy to traverse through the entire park and also
make it accessible for bicyclists but there was strong opposition from the
community for that plan during the public hearing, public meetings the
commission held. They've kind of just kind of put it on hold right now and I
guess I would have to say there's not a strong feeling that they want to put those
spine trails in there, but yes we have a plan from a consultant that I can advise a
number of areas, as a matter of fact all the trails that he's suggesting would be
accessible from a grade standpoint.
Pfab/Will those satisfy the ADA requirements?
Trueblood/Yes.
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Pfab/So there is a conceptual (can't hear) as far as it is right now.
O'Donnell/How wide are the trails?
Trueblood/Well we haven't gotten down to that detail yet but probably 8 feet.
Wilburn/Terry before you go on with the rest of the park and rec. things I know the parks
and rec. commission had prioritized or come up with a prioritization, will we get
that, will Council get that as part of their packet or are you passing that out tonight
or?
Atkins/I intended to give that to you at the end of the meeting (can't hear) meet with, I'm
just trying to go through, you can have them now if you want them now if you
want, but we have a priority on the part of the park.
Wilburn/As long as the Council gets them (can't hear).
Atkins/You'll get them tonight, we've prepared them for you.
Wilburn/OK.
Trueblood/The the Intracity Bike trails is for a variety of smaller projects that could be
anything from signing to home trails to bench home trails to bike racks along
trails, maybe striping a roadway.
Davidson/We've used this for, we'll put, we'll have two trails that just have a just need a
little connection, we've used it for that. We've used this for some bike racks
downtown just recently, really augmented downtown bike racks and came from
this really source of funds for those smaller type of projects.
Pfab/Say everybody, can I change and bring up a subject a little different. I got a call
today from somebody saying that the is there a newspaper stand put up.
Lehman/Telephone's are accessible we know it.
Atkins/Yes everybody knows (can't hear).
Kanner/(can't hear).
Pfab/It's a little too high for certain people.
Lehman/Telephone's in the Kiosk (can't hear).
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Atkins/We are installing the Kiosk's in downtown location the telephones did not meet
the needs of handicapped citizens and if that's the case it will be corrected, we just
starting installing these things (can't hear).
Pfab/OK. The complaint I got was about newspaper.
Atkins/Yea well I'm not going to see it yet, I forgot this afternoon, I've already gotten
calls.
Wilbum/But you said, how about (can't hear).
Lehman/Their beautiful but their not accessible. OK.
Atkins/We'll deal with it.
Longfellow/Pine
Trueblood/Jeff you could probably speak more on the Longfellow Pine Street project.
Davidson/Yea this is one we hope to do this year, we do have federal funds that we
receive through JCCOG transportation enhancement funds for this. We'll connect
the Longfellow neighborhood with Pine Street and allow a way for pedestrians
and bicyclists to get past the railroad tracks without going over them, the railroad
is very supportive of this project, a few details to work out and we'll work out.
Willow Creek
Davidson/Willow Creek Trail's all done isn't it Terry?
Trueblood/This particular allocation right here represents Phases I and II and I was done
a year ago and II is virtually done a few loose ends to tie up so those projects are
completed for all practical purposes. We hope to go forth with the Willow Creek
Trail Phase III plan in the future which you'll see on the commission's priority list
when you get that.
Atkins/This project is a high priority on the part of the commission, I postponed it with
the unfunded, we'll flag that for you so you know that now the reason I did that
was the cost, $1.6 million dollars, getting pressures from other projects. So when
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Page 58
you see this it will make, see if this project makes sense to you but that phase of
the trail that I put into.
Trueblood/One of another things to make you aware of too is that even though it doesn't
change the fact that it's a high priority by our commission is just recently I just
recently became aware that there are some obstacles with regard to the airport
plans for this particular trail so before we can do it we have to let those plans
come to (can't hear) first anyway so it's not like a project that we can do over the
next one or two years.
Kanner/Sir could you show where the two Longfellow and the Willow Creek Trail are on
the map or Jeff and where the other proposed trail that's not on here would be.
Trueblood/OK Jeff says I'll talk and he'll write but I can't see what he's writing so.
Pfab/He can't either.
Trueblood/OK see that orange line he made, that's a trail.
Davidson/That's Phase I.
Trueblood/That was Phase I of the Willow Creek Trail that runs in behind West High
School out to Mormon Trek and Phase II continues on down Benton Street and
then Willow Creek Park down adjacent to Kiwanis Park and empties out if you
will down on what's it called Willow Creek Drive.
Atkins/Jeff, that portion is not.
Davidson/And then Phase III.
Trueblood/Yea OK, quit talking, I've got the mic here. Phase III would hopefully take
us under around over or through the highway in some fashion down past the
airport eventually going all the way to the river connecting in future segment of
the Iowa River Corridor Trail and then eventually bridging over to Napoleon Park
or somewhere near Napoleon Park.
Davidson/And connecting up the Iowa River (can't hear).
Kanner/So building a bridge over the river for the bicycles?
Davidson/(can't hear).
Trueblood/That' s another future project.
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Davidson/That's not part of the Phase III. Can you hear me OK? That's not part of the
Phase III project.
Kanner/The bridge is not part of it?
Lehman/No it's a million something without the bridge.
Vanderhoef/$1.6.
Trueblood/The bridge is actually part of a future segment of the proposed Iowa River
Corridor Trail down the west bank from Benton Street to Sturgis Ferry Park. Did
you want the Longfellow?
Kanner/Longfellow.
Trueblood/Longfellow marked also. See I'm doing my job here.
Davidson/The Longfellow project we'll be pressed to get it done this year, what we've
run across is a utility conflict to a with a utility that the railroad has sold an
easement to and we need to work through there are some fiber optics in there.
Lehman/Just cut them, right through them.
Davidson/Very expensive for us.
Trueblood/And that's right near just a little bit south and east of the school, Longfellow
school.
Vanderhoef/Are you saying this cost may go up on us?
Davidson/Yes.
Pfab/And where is this location of the fiber optic conflict.
Lehman/It's in the railroad.
Davidson/It follows the railroad through town.
Champion/So no matter where we put the bridge we're going to have to go over it.
Lehman/Well probably in the railroad fight away in the ground?
Davidson/Right, right now our tunnel would go fight through so we've got to either work
higher or lower and since that's not in the public fight away we can't just say get
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Page 60
out of the way we've got to pay for that change. Fortunately this project does
have some federal money with it, we may be able to get some additional federal
money for this job from another one and help defray that cost.
Vanderhoef/Would we have the same problem if we used the alternate site that we were
shown?
Davidson/Yes.
Lehman/Well that.
(All talking).
Vanderhoef/I figured but got to check.
Court Hill Trunk Sewer
Atkins/OK Court Hill.
O'Donnell/We're going to quit at 9.
Lehman/We're going to quit at 97 We are.
O'Donnell/Well I thought we are.
Atkins/I thought you said 9:00.
Lehman/Well I can wait till 9:00.
Atkins/OK.
???man/Let's take a break.
Atkins/Court Hill Trunk Sewer.
Fosse/That' s one that if you remember back in 1989 we extended a large trunk sewer
(can't hear) we need to extend that. Court Hill Park along Ralston Creek out
underneath the south branch detention face??? and dam.
Atkins/You want to draw that one?
Fosse/Sure.
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Franklin/This sewer is going to be really important for future development east of Scott
Boulevard and Windsor Ridge north area and the Lindman Farm and that growth
area that we have between Scott and Taft. I mean we're getting to the point where
we have much more than Windsor Ridge Area and we're going to start having a
problem with the Court Hill sewer.
Vanderhoef/And this is the one that would allow us to tie up with the Iowa City Care
Center?
Franklin/Well this one combined with 33620 the Scott Park Area trunk sewer.
Atkins/It's coming up.
Franklin/Which is coming up.
Fosse/I've (can't hear) on there.
Iowa Avenue Sanitary Sewer
Atkins/Iowa Avenue.
Fosse/Moving ahead with that one, Phase I will be the 300 block and that will include
some improvements the Deer Creek Storm sewer as well as replacing sanitary
sewer and water main through there.
Lehman/It's pretty cheap.
Fosse/For the.
Lehman/(can't hear).
Fosse/That's just for the sanitary sewer portion.
Lehman/Oh.
Atkins/That's just the sanitary sewer, that's not the street.
Lehman/That's what's confusing about these things, it doesn't give you the whole
project.
Atkins/Well sometimes we have (can't hear) the final project and then you guys
sometimes turn around and split them all up anyway so.
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Lehman/So you split them up for us. OK.
Vanderhoef/So we have different funding forces anyway.
Atkins/Yes we do.
Vanderhoef/Streets come on one and sewers come on another and.
Kanner/Rick, it makes sense to me that the downtown area maybe the oldest areas where
we have the most trouble with leakage into the sewer system from storm water. Is
that true, is that where most of it is that when we rebuild these we're going to
solve a lot of (can't hear).
Fosse/It will solve some of it, we've got fairly decent infiltration is what we call that in
two sewers that were built right up into the 70's, it wasn't until then that the
technology really got better for sewer construction. This particular sewer is an old
combined sewer and it's built out of brick and it's in pretty tough shape furman/??
in it when we, we televised it last time there was a mouse came up and did a
dance in front of the camera and then ran.
Vanderhoef/Go see his pictures, he's got wonderful pictures.
Fosse/Great videos we can watch.
Atkins/Well we could show them all, (can't hear) we could show you fight out here,
Deer Creek. We usually hire a young intern to crawl down because none of these
will do that.
Vanderhoef/Been there done that.
Fosse/Yea my knees won't take it anymore.
Lehman/Yea right, your afraid of mice.
Pfab/Their big cousins.
River Street Sewer
Atkins/River Street Sewer.
Fosse/River Street that one is pretty well done, we have that middle link to put in, that
last third of the River Street paving job.
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Scott ParkArea Trunk Sewer
Atkins/Scott Park is the one you were interested in.
Franklin/Yea and we have right now at the Planning and Zoning Commission or will
have at their next meeting a request for annexation a property just east of Scott
Boulevard, it's about 38 acres between Lower West Branch Road and Rochester
Avenue and east of Scott Boulevard, right around Sterling House and that will
allow the care facility to then come in, the care facility will then be contiguous to
the city's corporate limits once this intervening ground is annexed and you have
to have that contiguity in order to annex.
Atkins/Can you explain that a little bit about the care centers around.
Franklin/Yea the care center is on lagoon's which those lagoon's are in this area of
annexation and they have had some difficulties with those lagoon's in recent years
and the DNR has been working with them to try and get this resolved. And it's an
expense to the care center which would more efficiently be resolved by having it
on municipal sewer and this is in our growth area so for the long run the care
center would be within Iowa City's corporate limits so it kind of is coming
together nicely in terms of the annexations and how we will be able to address
that sewer issue.
Atkins/How much of the land (can't hear) will be developed for sewer?
Franklin/Well let's see, the whole trunk.
Atkins/The annexation is like 40 acres.
Franklin/Yea the annexation is 40 acres but then the trtmk sewer is also allows
development of the Lindeman farm which is between Windsor Ridge and the
homes that are in the county just outside our corporate limits south of Lower West
Branch Road as Vanna is showing you.
O'Donnell/(can't hear).
???man/That would be Vance.
Franklin/Vance yes.
Vanderhoef/But we have to have the Court Hill trunk sewer before we can go through
with it.
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Franklin/That's right because the Scott Park trunk goes into the Court Hill and so we've
got to fix that one downstream before we put more in it.
Vanderhoef/So they come as a pair if we want to open up.
Atkins/OK.
Franklin/Yea you could Court Hill without Scott Park, but you couldn't do Scott Park
with Court Hill.
Atkins/Now Surveying projects annual, that's an annual amount of money we set aside
for (can't hear) we're doing.
Lehman/Routine (can't hear).
Atkins/Well it's routine sewer repairs but also their maybe an extension needed not
unlike what we have, may not spend, we can identify the fact that.
Fosse/We fix some of our areas that are high maintenance or we have a lot of inflow and
infiltration and we search out and eliminate some of those cross connects that still
exist. This year we did most of that with trench less technology, maybe you
remember seeing some of the equipment around town that puts liners inside the
sewers, extends the life of them.
Lehman/Does that work pretty well?
Fosse/Yea it does.
Lehman/You see it advertised in magazines and.
Fosse/Yea and it's become much more economical since the path ran out that (can't hear)
at that time was quite pricy now there's a number of suppliers to the service.
Pfab/Is this lining put in is it sprayed on or is it slid in?
Fosse/It's slid in, yep.
Atkins/It looks like a glorified garden hose right?
Fosse/Yea it goes in in like a resin sock and then they it's heat set with an Epoxy so it
confirms to the inside shape.
Atkins/It's more than everyone knew.
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Fosse/Again we have (can't hear).
Atkins/(can't hear) than understood.
Lehman/I'll stick with garden hose.
Atkins/Gardening.
Vanderhoef/Doesn't have a chance to crack though like my garden hose.
Atkins/Waste water south plant we're out to bid, you'll be sometime in February.
Lehman/Oh that' s fight.
West Side Trunk
Arkins/West Side Trunk.
Fosse/That' s one that is a second phase of an upgrade out there we did the first one about
5 years ago, this starts behind West High School, goes underneath the interstate
and takes it on out toward Southwest Estates, it's a sewer that also serves our
landfill (can't hear) station as well.
Franklin/That's one too that that it's very important to keep on track because remember
when we did the subdivision's around Weber School that we did those knowing
that this was coming along and it will be necessary when that's totally built out.
Atkins/The storage reservoir, I mentioned that earlier to you, it's a new one (can't hear).
Iowa River Power Dam
Atkins/The Iowa River Tower Dam this project has been postponed about 17 times.
Lehman/Is this still a matter of renovating the old dam or have we seriously looked at
relocating it?
Schmadeke/It will be renovation of the old dam.
Lehman/It is going to be renovation, I know at one time there was some talk that.
Schmadeke/The pedestrian bridge on top of the dam, we're looking at moving the
structure of that.
Lehman/Moving it is that correct to a different location?
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Schrnadeke/Right.
Lehman/So we don't have to buy a restaurant?
Schmadeke/Renovate (can't hear).
Champion/Well we can have a restaurant and a theater.
Lehman/Now this, now this project is $3.2 million bucks?
Schmadeke/That's what it says it's right.
Lehman/And that was originally estimated at under a million right?
Schmadeke/I think yea, but the bridge on the top of the dam I think was a small portion
o f that and.
Lehman/But does this include the bridge too, this does include the bridge?
(can't hear).
Atkins/You will have some choices to make on this one.
Lehman/Yea so if we decide to do the dam and waited on the bridge or something we
could do that?
Atkins/Yes, yes.
Lehman/But boy oh boy that is a big chunk of change.
Champion/That' s a lot of money, when you talked about moving the dam to upstream or
downstream would that be cheaper to do that?
Lehman/Apparently not.
Schmadeke/(can't hear) it's cheaper (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/And do we have a ball park figure of how much of this might be the trail
bridge or yea?
Schmadeke/A million dollars, a million and a half is the trail, no a million two twenty-
five is the bridge.
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Lehman/That's going to have tough sledding. Well you take a million dollars off that
3.2 and 2.2 1 guess yea I'm glad you pointed that out because I look at 3.2 million
for the dam and obviously that includes a new bridge as well.
Atkins/And that's also remember a GO debt, that's figured into that's a 8 year (can't
hear).
Lehman/A million two is the.
Vanderhoef/So we're talking about 2 million or a little over for the dam.
Schmadeke/One advantage of this option the trail across the top of the dam it stopped at
the spillway and you went down onto the spillway to get across the peninsula.
This bridge will bridge across the spillway, we won't have to worry about (can't
hear).
Lehman/A mile and a half water.
Vanderhoef/Because that's wetland all the way through there so that's a long bridge.
Davidson/600 feet.
Lehman/But the bridge also be, the trail bridge correct?
Schmadeke/Right.
Lehman/Which probably is wide enough, are we going to make that wide enough heavy
enough to take any kind of a vehicle?
Schmadeke/(can't hear).
Lehman/Because I think that the plan for the bridge was that the pickup could go over it,
maintenance vehicle.
Davidson/It would take a vehicle like that.
Lehman/Yea I think that's right, so it is a fairly substantial structure.
Davidson/I think Coralville would probably want to have some discussions with you
about this project.
Lebanan/We could use a swinging rope bridge though I don't suppose, that's out.
Champion/(can't hear).
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Vanderhoef/(can't hear) build it and grow a tree and put a vine on it.
Lehman/OK.
Kanner/Chuck, how often do you have to do a project like this, the dam?
Schmadeke/The dam itself?.
Kanner/Every 50 years or?
Schmadeke/That dam was renovated in 1922 the last time so it should be.
Lehman/77 years.
Schmadeke/(can't hear) years.
Lehman/That's a huge chunk of change, could we give that back to the County?
Vanderhoef/For a buck?
Schmadeke/We could trade University.
Vanderhoef/I'm afraid they wouldn't have any desire so they would probably take it out
and we can't live without it.
Lehman/OK.
Atkins/Ernie I promised you 9:00 and that' s what time it is, I just have two things I want
to clear up before we head out, (can't hear). What are we going to do on the 241h
is that still 2:30 in the aftemoon?
Lehman/2:30 is fine I can make 2:30 if the Council.
Atkins/Monday the 241h at 2:30 and plan to consider capital projects, we'll continue this
discussion. And on the 251h.
Lehman/6:30.
Atkins/Is boards and commissions, when you finish with them we would either finish up
the capital or move into the enterprise funds. Is that OK?
Lehman/OK.
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Champion/241h at 2:30 the 251h at 6:30.
Atkins/At 6: 30.
Pfab/Just a minute, I'm trying to catch with you OK. One more time.
Lehman/241h.
Atkins/2:30 to 5:00.
Lehman/That's 2:30 instead of 8:30 in the moming which we had originally scheduled.
Pfab/2:30 to 5:00 OK.
Vanderhoef/So we're going to continue with CIP's on the 241h?
Lehman/Yea.
Champion/OK January 241h 2:30 1 have that.
Lehman/Right.
Champion/The 251h at 6:30 1 have that.
Lehman/Oh no that's right, we talked about confirming it.
Champion/OK. (can't hear)
Atkins/Right now, (can't hear) we're really doing OK, as long as your comfortable that
we're not rushing you at the same time (can't hear). 241h and 251h we're all set
for.
Lehman/And next Tuesday we meet at?
Karr/3: 00.
Vanderhoef/3:00.
Lehman/3:00.
Vanderhoef/For a work session and Formal at 7:00 is what (can't hear).
Atkins/Tomorrow (can't hear) and I'll be in Des Moines all day Thursday, I'll be back
Friday morning.
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Lehman/OK.
Atkins/Thank you all very much.
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meeting of January 11, 2000.