HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-01-31 Transcription January 31, 2000 Council Work Session Page 1
January 31, 2000 Council Work Session 7:10 PM
Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Kanner, Pfab, Wilbum
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Miklo, Franklin, Davidson, Schoon, Grosvenor,
Shank, Winstead, Boothroy
Tapes: 00-13 Side 1, 00-14 Both Sides, 00-15 Both Sides
PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
Lehman/South Central District Plan and I think you know this is going to be pretty much
sort of explanatory for our benefit, the public hearing is tomorrow night so most
of the real questions about the plan need to be asked at the public hearing.
Bob Miklo/For the Councilors who don't know me I'm Bob Miklo, the Planning and
Community Development Department. I'd like to give you a quick overview of
the plan. I hope you've all had a chance to glance through it at least. There are
four main elements that will affect the development of the South Central District,
which all of you hopefully know it's south of Highway 6, west of the Iowa River
and generally northeast of Highway 218. The airport is a major factor in this part
of the city and will affect how lands around it develop, some things to point out is
the City' s in the process, or the airport' s in the process of purchasing some of the
clear zones around the airport which will remove those from development
potential but with the long term closure of this runway it will also open up some
development potential noah of the airport and then also south of the airport.
These are areas that are currently somewhat restricted because of the airport' s
overlay so one of those areas is of course the airport commercial park that the
airport commission.
Pfab/At the first chance you could I'd like to have you show us where this proposed
highway is going.
Miklo/Sure that's that will.
Lehman/That will come later, he'll do the whole thing.
Miklo/This commercial park proposes or proposed by the airport commission will
provide some opportunities for us, some commercial development with fairly
good access to Highway 1 and Riverside Drive. It will require the construction of
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a new collector street through this area. One of the things that the plan talks about
is with that commercial development there may be the potential to move some of
the more intensive commercial uses away from the highway things such as the
mobile home sales, or the manufactured housing sales and those areas that high
visibility might be appropriate for retail or office commercial type uses. One of
the things the plan talks about is for the very long term we should consider
reserving fights of ways through this area to develop for future development of
the airport if it ever does go away. Another major factor is the potential east-west
arterial street that' s been in our plans for a long time. With this plan we actually
hired a consultant to bring some detail as to where that street should occur. It
generally should occur between Mormon Trek Boulevard and Highway 1, this
intersection over to Riverside Drive and then eventually across the Iowa River
where it will intersect with Sycamore Street. There was quite an extension
discussion of where this street should occur and based on the engineering
consultants report, the commission recommended that it should generally occur
between two alignments which for the study purposes were called N1 and N1.1,
those are south of or on the southern portion of the Dane property and to the north
of the Willjams property. I would suggest that we may want to come back to this
for some more discussion after I get through the highlights of the plan. Jeff
Davidson who worked with Earth tech on this study is here to answer some of
your technical questions. I'd also like to point out that the alignments that we
looked at will affect the University property, the former Thomas & Betts property
that we will have to acquire some land there, the university has indicated a
willingness to work with us, a possibility of some land trade or some other means
of compensating them for that land. Another major element that affects this
whole area would be the existing highways and arterial streets, Highway 2 18,
Highway 1 and Riverside Drive. One of the things that the plan looks at is given
these highways are entrance ways into town, how can those be improved. It calls
for some major landscaping along Riverside Drive to buffer the salvage yards that
are currently there. It also talks about the potential to do some streetscape
improvements along Highway 1 similar to what was done along Highway 6 in
western Iowa City and Coralville. The plan also talks about the need for some
sort of trail or sidewalk system to accommodate to accompany those highway
areas. There is some pedestrian traffic along Highway 1 for example that's, or
excuse me, Highway, yea that's Highway 1 that isn't necessarily safe and that as
we look at new development in those areas how can we get pedestrians off the
shoulders. Another affected highways would be the residential development
that' s anticipated in this area and providing some kind of buffer along the
highway so that we don't have complaints from residents in that area. Another
major factor affecting this area would be the flood plain of the Iowa River and
Willow Creek. A good portion of the area east of Riverside Drive is within the
flood plane and this has area has a high water table and extensive wooded
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wetlands. To answer those concerns the plan does call for a long term the
relocation or the phasing out of the manufactured housing parks that are in this
area. Another reason for that proposal and of a change of land uses is the fact that
those parks are next to industrial areas and they're having conflicts between the
residents and the industrial plants in that area. One of the proposals of the plan is
this which is generally wooded wetlands not be developed it would be an area that
would be very difficult to provide sanitary sewer to so we're proposing that it
continue to be private open space and possibly public open space. Some of the
things that I want to point out in detail in terms of proposed land uses, most of the
land uses along the highway are fixed. But there is a large area here that's for the
most part vacant and there's a lot of potential there. At the intersection of what
would be Mormon Trek Boulevard and Highway 1 the plan calls for highway
commercial and office commercial. The thought was that this would be a good
place to serve travelers along 218, might be the potential site for a hotel, the
office, the reason for the office proposal is that there' s anticipated residential
farther to the south and we thought that this would be a good transition or buffer
to that area. The area to the south of the airport has identified as a appropriate for
industrial development. This is a fairly low area with high water table and would
require quite a bit of fill for development, also because it's near the airport we
didn't feel it was appropriate for residential development, and that's why we are
proposing industrial. Farther south from the airport there' s an area that currently
there are some restrictions because of the runway height limits that we feel could
be developed commercially. This is zoned commercially in the county, and when
it's annexed where we definite that the property owner's going to want some sort
of commercial designation. Because of the anticipated residential to the west, the
existing mobile home park and also a lot of people who attended the meetings on
this expressed a desire to protect the fairgrounds and the fact that this is along an
entrance way to the city we felt that highway or strip commercial wouldn't be
appropriate. There was quite a bit of discussion of this point at the Planning &
Zoning Commission and the plan calls for a neighborhood commercial
designation, there was some concern of the property owner that this not be
neighborhood commercial, he thought that was too restrictive given his current
highway commercial zone in the county. It was the conclusion of the
Commission that it wouldn't necessarily need to be neighborhood commercial
zoning but they didn't want to see highway commercial or strip commercial
things like used car sales and things of that sort. The text plan talks about mixed
uses, maybe some multi-family, office and commercial to serve the surrounding
residential area. This is an area of the plan where we may, if the word
neighborhood commercial was taken out and just the commercial was just left in
or mixed used commercial I don't think it would change the intent of the plan
from the point of view of the Commission or the staff. Many of the residents and
property owners in this area at the time of the Planning & Zoning Commission' s
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expressed a desire to keep this a rural area. Some of the Planning & Zoning
Commission members also agreed with that, it is fairly rugged. But eventually
there may be sewer and water service there, so that would call for some
development. Therefore the plan proposes that this be cluster development if and
when it does develop. A few other points I'd like to highlight, the plan does call
for a trail along Willow Creek to eventually connect across the river to the river
corridor trail and then also talks about connections to some of the residential
development in the area. Another main point is almost half of this or actually a
little bit more than half of this land is outside the city and the county and we
stressed to the property owners as we develop this plan that our annexation policy
up to this point and we don't anticipate a change in that is for volunteering
annexation and that that's likely to continue. That's a quick summary of the plan
if there are specific questions or if you'd like to discuss the alignment of the east-
west arterial in a little bit more detail we'll be happy to.
Vanderhoef/Before you take that map down, show me where you are anticipating
apartments.
Miklo/OK there are some limited areas in this transitional area from the existing
residential on Dane Road, some possible apartments above commercial in this
area along Riverside Drive.
Vanderhoef/After the runway's closed?
Miklo/Right, right.
Vanderhoef/So that brown that is to the west of the mobile home park those are the
apartment things?
Miklo/Right.
Vanderhoef/Oh just that little piece.
Miklo/Right. There is some median density residential which might have some
apartments in it if there's some cluster development or plan developments.
Vanderhoef/Got it.
Pfab/Is that what I understand, will you explain that, are those mobile homes? I thought
they were kind of.
Lehman/Manufactured.
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Miklo/Manufactured housing is this area here and then there also the there's some
manufactured in this area which we're not showing continuing.
Pfab/I was thinking, I was sitting here watching it that the area's change here was that
(can't hear) that little row of houses are on Dane Road, those are not movable.
Lehman/No.
Vanderhoef/No.
Kanner/Where' s that on Dane Road, can you point that out again? What Irvin, just
mention the houses on Dane Road.
Lehman/Those are.
Miklo/Right there there are several houses that were moved in there number of years
ago. Some might have been built there in place but some where actually moved
in.
Vanderhoef/(can't hear).
Lehman/Yea, would the vision for this area be changed by significant change in the
amount of manufactured housing? I mean I see that that to the west of that
manufactured housing I believe is single family, is that not correct?
Miklo/Right.
Lehman/What would happen if that turned into manufactured housing?
Miklo/Well I think we'd, you know depending on the density it would be a different
vision in terms of what was talked about at the meetings which was trying to keep
the rural character of the area. Some of the area has fairly rolly topography, might
not be suitable for manufactured housing without a lot of grading being done.
Lehman/There was a significant amount of grading done to make.
Miklo/I believe that' s in this area which is was approved for that' s already zoned
manufactured housing in the county.
Vanderhoef/Is there some more adjacent to the present manufactured homes?
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Miklo/I believe this map shows the extent of the zoning in the county for manufactured
housing. There is some vacant land between that and Dane Road.
Vanderhoef/Owned by the same property owner?
Miklo/Somebody did mention at one of our most recent meetings that the Wolf' s might
have bought that property.
Lehman/They have bought that property and I believe their intent is to go clear west of
218 with manufactured housing. Now that' s why I ask that.
Miklo/(can't hear).
Lehman/Get the affect you know where we're going with this plan.
Miklo/My response would be it should in terms of the density that was conceived there.
Vanderhoef/OK and presently how far south can you sewer and (cant'hear) over?
Miklo/There is a diagram I believe in your plan that shows the growth area which it's
roughly boundaries of the plan except for this area here and I'll try to find the
page for you.
Vanderhoef/Well this has been since we put in the new interceptor line through there, the
Willow Creek line.
Miklo/Well the, it's not necessarily sewerable now but it can be sewered by gravity
sewer in the long term I think it would require the extension of additional sewer.
Vanderhoef/Yea, fight.
Miklo/I'm not, the new interceptor goes through this general area, (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/Goes through this area so, so as we develop we certainly have to through
that.
Pfab/And you say that that' s sewerable by gravity?
Miklo/Right, the entire area except for the south eastern portion would be difficult to
sewer.
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Pfab/At one point you mentioned something about wetlands (can't hear) whether it's
(can't hear).
Miklo/The wetlands are generally east of Riverside Drive and I believe there' s a map on
page 10 which shows the flood plain and map on page 9 which shows the
wetlands, there it is in blue.
Pfab/(can't hear).
Vanderhoef/Most of that is not buildable.
Wilburn/Bob you had said that the University would be interested in selling property, I
thought that I had read in the hearing notes, the minutes, that they would work
against that. Was that earlier on in the process?
Miklo/I don't know if that was ever stated. I know they did state a concern that we show
the arterial going through their property and that they did have some plans for
expansion of their warehousing, distribution center there but they would work
with us in terms of finding a location that' s that worked.
Wilburn/And help me, help me invision who's going to, who you anticipate using this
road, is it, to put this in context with the Avenue of the Saints coming through
some day and is that, who's going to be going on this arterial? Is it, is it, would it
be commercial traffic, industrial or residential?
Miklo/Jeff could probably answer that better than I could.
Davidson/Well I'm sure not better Bob. What's considered for the south arterial routes
is an urban city street, that' s distinct from the Avenue of the Saints which is more
of a national type highway system as all of our arterial streets do they serve two
functions. The principle function is to move traffic regionally within the urban
area. OK.
Wilburn/OK.
Davidson/A secondary function though that's also very important is to provide access to
developing areas and when we build new arterial streets we attempt to control that
that access a lot better than we used to so that it doesn't compromise that first
thing that we're trying to do which is to move traffic regionally.
Wilburn/OK now educate me here, an arterial like is Mormon Trek considered it would
be more of an (can't hear).
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Davidson/Yes, Mormon Trek, Scott Boulevard, Captain Irish Parkway those types of
streets and basically the street along with the water service and sewer service is
one of the three components you need to take this area from principally
undeveloped being developed as part of the city.
Wilbum/OK and so the nature of that traffic that's the reason why it would connect with
Highway 1 as opposed to 218.
Davidson/Exactly, I mean we feel like it does provide good access to 218 because of
being adjacent, Mormon Trek being directly adjacent to the interchange there but
it as you say it's more important really for it to connect as Bob indicated earlier
with the rest of the arterial street system. Sycamore Street on the east and
Mormon Trek on the west.
Vanderhoef/The plan also mentions just in passing that it's outside of this area fight now
but the need in the foreseeable future let's say 10-15 years that we may need
another river crossing south of this that would be more for the traffic coming off
218 and it might be trying to bypass the city, it wouldn't necessarily be for this
inter-city arterial thing traffic and obviously we have one exchange further south
of the Mormon Trek one but all of this goes out into the county and that would be
as I understand it Jeff something that if there was interest it would have to be put
on the JCCOG transportation plan to reserve a corridor or some such thing like we
did up on the noah end.
Davidson/Yea as Bob indicated much of this area is currently in the unincorporated
county, and in two other areas, the 965 extension corridor and the Oakdale
Boulevard Extension Corridor. Iowa City has entered into, well in the case of
Oakdale, well actually in the case of both of those with both Coralville and the
County. Now in this case you wouldn't be entering into an agreement with
Coralville but just the county to preserve the alignments as Dee says so that
something was not built in the county prematurely that would later be an expense
that we would have to acquire in order to put a road through.
Pfab/I have a question, when previously Highway 6 was the belt way right so to speak?
Davidson/Well it was called a bypass it was built, it was built to bypass the city in the
60's yes.
Pfab/And what was the anticipated life on, how did the plan interact with reality?
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Davidson/Well I think it was always anticipated Irvin that the city would grow out to the
bypass I mean their planning the Highway 30 bypass around Mt. Vemon fight
now and that's the third bypass of Mt. Vernon so you know this being the next
logical extension out. We have discussed with the DOT and I don't think there' s
interest on either the city' s part or the DOT' s part with the redesignation of
Highway 6 to this road, Highway 6 would remain where it is fight now. But it
does give that option in the future that Highway 6 could be redesignated as a state
route and become the south arterial would become a portion of that.
Pfab/My other question was I was kind of I guess I wasn't very impressed with the way
that they rounded that, how they people (can't hear). I wasn't very impressed
with they decided how they were going to plat that road and my real question is is
that too close in?
Davidson/Well there were five, if you include expense, six factors taken into
consideration of which social factors, how close you are to adjacent residents,
whether or not a resident would be displaced, that was one of the five factors
taken into consideration. Social factors, natural features, cultural features, that
meaning archeological sites, engineering and design factors, and traffic service,
how well it moves traffic, those were the, that combination of factors Irvin went
into the determination that the alignment that Bob showed you was the preferred
alignment.
Pfab/I don't mean just, I'm not talking a real short one, I'm saying should the road have
been 5 or 10 miles farther down.
Davidson/Oh farther south, well the issue there is our sewer service area and ultimately
what our current long range planning shows is the eventual city limits of Iowa
City, this road alignment is designed to serve that area. As Bob pointed out to
you there are some areas further south, in fact there are a lot of areas further south
but because of the natural features the hydric soils, the wetlands, the wetted
woodlands, the archeological sites, the current quarry ponds that are out there,
will simply not be developed anytime soon for anything significant and that was a
factor and if you noticed Irvin we did look at some alignments further south and
in a lot of the factors they didn't fair very well because of because of that.
Pfab/This has the highest score value so to speak.
Lehman/(Can't hear).
Davidson/Right, Yea this is not intended, excuse me Ernie, this is not intended strictly
speaking to be the next bypass but rather to be an urban arterial street.
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Pfab/Yea, my point was, are we moving it out far enough?
Davidson/We believe so. Emie.
Lehman/Well that was my point that this is really, obviously it's going to carry traffic
through the area but it's also meant to service this area and it's not intended to be
a bypass.
Davidson/Very much so.
Vanderhoef/And it connects up with the east-west parkway that' s on the east side of the
river and how we can get that connected up is (can't hear).
Davidson/Right now in your CIP you have two unfunded projects which are basically
this road between Mormon Trek Boulevard and Scott Boulevard, I think it's
divided into halves between Mormon Trek and Sycamore and then between
Sycamore and Scott Boulevard. And those are currently the unfunded years.
Lehman/Steve.
Kanner/Bob hopefully 3 quick questions, first one it mentioned there Indian mounds in
Ryerson's Wood Park, is that true? Can you show me where they are if it is.
Miklo/There, no there aren't definitely Indian mounds there was some discussion when
218 was proposed that there might be Indian mounds there therefore the highway
was moved slightly but there's no as far as I know and from what we have from
the state archeologists there aren't any exactly identified Indian mounds. If there
were they hesitate to make that public because of the concern of someone going in
and digging up those mounds.
Kanner/Can you show me where they are presumed to be if they, or insist their up there.
Miklo/I don't know that.
Lehman/Well this plan has nothing to do with disturbing any of that, is that correct?
This is in a public park.
Miklo/Right.
Vanderhoef/And if you wanted a little more word on Ryersons Woods there was some
archeological just preliminary digging done by a group of students from Iowa
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State oh about 1994-95, Terry Trueblood could probably fill you in on it. But it
was one of the things that they looked at before the trail was developed in
Ryersons Woods.
Kanner/Can you show me where that is on there?
Lehman/Ryersons Woods.
Vanderhoef/It's south of the fairgrounds.
Miklo/Yea it's this area right here.
Kanner/OK and engineering reports stated that there were 20-29,000 vehicles per day on
Highway 1 and 6, with this road how would it affect that on Highway 6 and what
are the projections for this east-west arterial?
Davidson/Well we did model the amount of traffic diversion that would occur and I
would tell you it's certainly not the majority of those 30,000 vehicles a day, it's
along the lines of 5-6,000 vehicles a day that are currently using Highway 6 and
Highway 1 because of the river crossing issue they basically go from south up to
that road, across the river and then go down back south. Those are the vehicles
that would stay along this new road, basically the day it opened, that traffic would
be using this area. With the extension of the sewer now we all know that that are
south of Highway 6 is very much right for redevelopment and we anticipate that
occurring in the upcoming future and that also was factored into the traffic service
aspect of this road.
Kanner/So you anticipate growth on all fronts that Highway 1 and through to 6 will
grow? Even with this diversion?
Davidson/The issue with Highway 1 and 6 is those of you who especially have been on
Council for a while know, I mean every time we have an issue in the
neighborhoods, in the Benton and Kirkwood areas, it's get traffic on Highway 6,
it belongs on Highway 6. Well Highway 6 30,000 vehicles a day is about
saturation flow for a four-lane highway with turn lanes and good access control
which is what we have on Highway 6 and 1. We really can't put, especially
during peak periods, we can't put any more traffic on that facility and that's one
of the reasons why we feel this new road then further south has some justification
to it.
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Kanner/And the final thing is I saw that Ranshaw Property and K Plaza and R Plaza
would object to new zoning, did that preclude them having apartments on the new
zone?
Miklo/I think there might have been some misunderstanding of what was being
proposed, they own some property in this area and what the plan proposes is that
some of this zoned intensive commercial, which allows things like implement
dealers, car lots, things that require a lot of outdoor storage. The plan calls for
that to be community commercial which is more retail or office and doesn't
necessarily need or it's better uses the highway exposure where something like an
implement dealer you don't need to necessarily be on a highway to sell something
like that. Both the intensive commercial and community commercial allow
apartments on the second floor. You know I think they might have
misunderstood what was that particular point.
Kanner/So they were thinking perhaps of more intense of apartments not just second
floor but more perhaps from ground floor up.
Lehman/I think they just misunderstood thinking second floor would not be allowed and
it is allowed where they are, I called on that earlier.
Miklo/And our commercial.
Lehman/They misinterpreted.
Kanner/But CC-2 doesn't allow first floor apartments.
Miklo/None of our commercial zones allow first floor apartments, they all require
commercial on the ground floor and apartments in the basement or on the upper
floors.
Kanner/And that' s what is being proposed if that goes to the CC-2.
Miklo/Well it's, we're not that specific we talk about office or commercial community
commercial in that area.
O'Donnell/Do you have a chart that shows the alignment of N-1 N-1-1 and N-l-2?
Davidson/I believe I do have. N-l-1 was the preferred alignment that came out of the
initial study, Planning & Zoning Commission then asked if some of the property
owners in the area did ask us to look at the two alternative alignments basically N-
1-1 is perfectly satisfactory with respect to all those factors that I mentioned
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earlier. It's a little more expensive because of additional grading that would be
needed at the intersection with Dane Road but it meets all of our standards and
would be perfectly an acceptable aligrkment. N-1 o2 has few problems with it, we
feel that are problems, you can see it gets very close to the resident's along Dane
Road there and then that we did meet with that neighborhood group and that was a
concem of theirs. It gets into 8-10 lots of the (can't hear) manufactured housing
part there and also then along the creek corridor there it gets into some wetland
areas as well. So we felt that those were sort of the combination of those were
sort of fatal flaws and N-l-2 is not an alignment that we recommend for your
consideration.
Vanderhoef/Is there a way that we can go between the N-l-2 and N-l-I, I know there are
some social issues in there at the present time that may disappear over time and I
guess what I would like to see somehow this written into the plan that this will be
relooked at at the time that they're getting ready to plan the road.
Davidson/Sure. One of the factors and I think Dee might be alluding to this of the N-I~I
location here is that it's almost exactly midway between the Williams' farm here
and the Dane residence up here. 370 from one and 350 from the other. Obviously
if the Williams farm was not a factor it would make sense to move that down into
the lower ground rather than have it on the side of the hill which is essentially
where it is right there. And N-1 also is higher on the hill but also on the side of
the hill as well. Staying away from both of these residents' was something we
were trying to do.
Vanderhoef/Right, right, right, and this is so early and difficult once you put it between
this one and this it's hard to get it changed later on and I would just like to.
Davidson/Since we don't have any plans on building this at the present time, and until
you all tell us what the priority is we won't be planning to build it either. It could
be that in the future one of those factors would change and we could alter that site.
Vanderhoef/I'd like it somehow the verbiage put into the plan that says we have to look
at this again and reassess it at the time that the road is going forward.
Davidson/OK.
Pfab/I would support Dee that on that very much because that, that is I think a very
shrude situation and in fact I well enough look that myself just from my own eye
there' s a lot of questions why they even would have started up on top of that hill
you know, that was my biggest biggest question, it just didn't make a lot of sense.
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Davidson/Well it does Irvin from an engineering point of view. The cuts and fills
required for actually constructing the road, that' s really a very good location.
Pfab/OK so N-1 from strictly an engineering point of view that was the best option.
Davidson/No not strictly an engineering point of view, a combination of factors.
Pfab/OK, all right, because any of those residential I mean their, you can't build a road
because somebody lives someplace, as much as you'd like to leave it there forever
have your tombstone there, down to eternity, these things have to change, I mean
there' s a lot more people involved than one or two people there.
Davidson/I agree completely and there are people impacted because we have a semi built
up portion of the commtmity you know once you get between Riverside Drive and
the river especially that' s a very built up area, there's going to be impact' s no
doubt about it.
Wilburn/Well I think that having that wording in there is a signal to future Councilor' s
please make this a consideration because we have other examples where
something was done or not said by Council and we're facing some of those issues
now.
Lehman/You know there' s.
Vanderhoef/And editors know even, to recommend this.
Lehman/There' s another issue that may come up sooner rather than later because when
the airport runway is extended I believe Dane Road will then be closed is that not
correct?
Davidson/Yea Dane Road will be relocated.
Lehman/I realize that, as part of the airport master plan there will be a temporary or
whatever access to from the comer.
Davidson/It's this area right here.
Lehman/That' s right, but there will be, my understanding is that the airport master plan
will provide federal funds to build that access road to the Dane Road. At that
point in time it's going to be whoever's sitting in these chairs to look at that and
decide whether we would like to take that money that would be used to build a
temporary access to Dane Road and rather invest that in this project, and at that
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time we're probably going to have to know where the alignment's going to go, so
that may happen sooner than we think.
Davidson/Yea the road that Emie's referring to in this area here I believe the intention
has been that it would be a chip seal type sort of temporary surface that then
eventually if there was ever industrial development in this area could then be
reconstructed along sort of the the same alignment to provide an access road that
wouldn't go on and have access to the highway further north, you basically would
have to come back to the south get on the artetial and then get over to the rest of
the artetioles.
Vanderhoef/So it could be reused.
Pfab/Do I remember, is there going to be a an underpass, over, under, on those two
road? Are they going to be surfaced?
Davidson/No there would be at grade intersections, and that's one of the factors Irvin
behind the grading of this intersection along whatever alignment it would be is
making sure there' s adequate sight distance for someone coming to a stop on
Dane Road being able to see in each direction to make a safe entrance across the
arterial.
O'Donnell/Jeff, N-1 is really hilly up there and it does flatten out as you get in N-l-2,
it's considerably flatter.
Davidson/Yes it is, yea this is down in the valley through here.
Lehman/We're going to have first, and by the way our public heating will be continued
tomorrow night on this road, we'll look at this tomorrow night, take whatever
public input we have, continue the public heating for two more weeks. Are there
other things that we, questions that we answered tonight or are we ready to listen
to public hearings?
Champion/We'll I've got.
Vanderhoef/I've got, excuse me go ahead.
Champion/You know I think the concern of the Dane's about this brick line up there, I
think that' s coming up to be addressed and not tonight but.
Lehman/Well no but I think tomorrow night it certainly can be addressed.
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Champion/Right, and I don't know if you got a copy of.
Davidson/Oh sure.
Champion/You did OK, because it's well written. But I think that's only going to have
to be addressed.
Vanderhoef/I just have one addition maybe it's because I'm very visual when I read text
and I go to maps and so forth. And what' s missing from me in this whole plan is
what I call a locator map because what we have in the text we're talking about
Mormon Trek, Ruppert Road, Izaak Walton Road, Imperial Drive, Commercial
Drive, the Baculis trailer's and unless you are very very familiar with the area you
can't find them on the maps or you can't read it you know we've overland right
over Highway 6 and showing like where Highway 1 and Highway 6 come
together at least and move off. But I guess I would like a locator map.
Miklo/We can try to do that.
Vanderhoef/Anybody else?
Champion/That's a very good idea.
O'Donnell/Good idea.
Davidson/Could I just make one quick clarification?
Lehman/Yes.
Davidson/The N-1-2 alignment does meet our design standards, so if for whatever reason
you decide that's the preferred alignment then maybe these factors that we've
pointed out either will go away in the future or for whatever reasons we can build
that according to our design standards. In fact cheaper than N-l-1.
Lehman/OK.
Champion/Thank you.
Lehman/We'll hear more tomorrow night. Thank you Bob.
ICAD
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Rose Rennekamp/Good evening. Those of you I don't know I'm Rose Rennekamp the
current chairperson of Iowa City Area Development, and we wanted to since there
are so many new council members we wanted to make sure that we got to know
you a little more better and learned your interest in economic development and
your priorities, and answer any questions you might have. I've got a handout you
can follow along if you'd like, basically Iowa City Area Development Corp. a lot
of people refer to it as ICAD is was created in 1985, it's submission is basically to
facilitate both public and private actions that further the economic well being of
area residents and particularly those in Iowa City, Coralville, North Liberty, West
Branch, West Liberty, Riverside, Kalona and Johnson County in general because
those are our member cities. Basically in the past 9 years we've created, we
helped create, actually we didn't create them, we've helped create about 3,200
new private sector jobs in the area and a capital investment basically bricks and
mortar and equipment of between 40-50 million dollars. Iowa City is one of the
major investors in ICAD but we also have about 150 business people, businesses
in the area which contribute to ICAD and are investing their resources to improve
the area. The organization is made up of both a very small staff, very minimal
staff of just two people on staff and then a volunteer board that 's many of the
community members that your familiar with. Steve Atkins, City Manager is on
that board, Vicki Lensing is here tonight she's on board, Mike O'Donnell from
the Council is on the board, Dave Skorton is here tonight in the back row looking
kind of sleepy and Steve West from West Music is on the board, John Wetzel,
some of you may not know because John doesn't live in the community but is
very active in the community he's with MidAmerica Energy and is a very active
and strong ICAD supporter, and Marty Kelly the President on the staff of ICAD if
you haven't met us there too. And you've got a list of the investors in ICAD,
again over 150, the major investors tend to be the cities and the banks. But
hopefully we've got lots of broad support from businesses which will benefit from
increase in the population and increase in the wealth of the residents in the area as
well as people to just have a general interest by helping support the community.
If you look on page 5 I think it's a pretty telling example, we have in the past 9
years there have been 1,858 new employees added within Iowa City businesses
and ICAD had a part at least in all of those in helping do the paperwork for
different grant applications in helping recruit for example General Mills to the
area and it ends up 57 percent of the new jobs that were created in this ICAD area
were created within the boundaries of Iowa City in that 9 year period. On page 6
you can see some of the other areas where those employees have been added, in
Coralville 668 employees, in Noah Liberty 337 down to 40 employees in
Riverside and in Riverside 40 employees is important it's good for their economic
base. In summary ICAD has about between 275 and 300 inquiries come in each
year so 5 or 6 inquiries each week that are unsolicited inquiries coming in to
ICAD where they're responding with information about the area demographics,
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about the labor force in the area, about the cities them self, and the quality of life
here, trying to attract those businesses to the area. So that ends up about 2,600
inquiries handled per year and the about 3,200 jobs we wanted to remind you, and
the average payroll $9.50 per hour for those jobs and most of those jobs come in
with benefits as well so if you multiply that out that ends up about $63.5 million
dollars per year and not all of them have been here the full 9 years, but over that 9
year period it adds up to a very very sizable contribution to the community in the
tax basis and in the purchasing power and the economic well being of our
residents. One of the things we've done this year, we run n a fiscal year that's
July 1 through June 30 so I've been the chair since July 1, and my background
comes, I come from a strategic planning background so you always kind of you
know put your hand prim on something, you new Council members are trying to
do the same thing so I look for a strategic planning process. One of the first
things we did was to do a survey of both the member investors and so a survey
came to you as a Council and Steve and other people helped him on completing
that survey as well as non investors on ICAD in terms of what our priorities
should be, what are we doing well, what do we need to do better, etc. Some of the
key results, I don't want to go everything obviously, but the key results in terms
of reasons that people and companies investment in ICAD the number one reason
to contribute to the community, the second to increase the tax base, third to attract
and retain workers, many times people had comments there that by having
additional diversity within the community that they were able to do more with
trailing spouses and have two income families that wasn't always possible without
new businesses coming to the area. Increased purchasing power, diversifying the
economy so that we're not as dependent on some of the very large employers like
the University. And referrals and prospects for their own businesses. In terms of
priorities, there weren't many surprises there, the number one priority recruiting
new businesses to the area, number two is kind of a surprise that I don't think you
would have seen this near as high a few years ago, recruiting a work force to the
area, number 3 assisting existing businesses to expand, number four to represent
business interest within the community, number 5 to market existing land and
building sites and existing buildings marketing number 6. Further down the list
come things like assisting start up businesses, I believe primarily because there
are several other small business development center that help start ups, the John
Pappajohn Center at the University, the OPO Research Park in the technology
Innovation Center. There are lots and lots of organizations that are helping
startups so businesses and individuals felt that that wasn't a good thing for ICAD
to be spending our time doing and things like developing international trade. It
just goes beyond the scope of what we can do with a two person staff and the
fai~y minimum budget that we have. In terms of usefulness of activities, the most
useful thing was a surprise to me, demographic information, our investors
considered to be the most important thing, to be able to provide good
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demographic information about the area. Number two to the job postings on the
Corridor Career's web site between Cedar Rapids and Iowa City, it's one that
those of you who are in business that have not tried it I would definitely
encourage you to do so, I hired another person through Corridor Careers today it's
been very very good to bring new people back to the area and this man was living
on the west coast come back he's coming back and taking a job with ACT. Local
labor survey, another one that we will be doing again in the next quarter, our
newsletter and groups and meetings like these. You've had a copy of the, I
believe Steve gave you a copy of the implementation plan and strategic plan draft
of where we're at, we've worked very hard and have had really good cooperation
and involvement from a lot of the board members, the mission we've tried to
shorten it and update it a little bit to facilitate private and public.
(END OF SIDE 2 TAPE 00-13)
Rose Rennekamp/That we've tried to add strategies under the recruitment of selective
businesses, we want to make sure that we increase our dialogue and maintain
regular contract with all of our major contributors and to talk with you both in
person and have more information going to you and also more information
coming back from you of what you like and what you don't like and what you'd
like us to do differently. The second one there work with both IDED and ICAD
and trying to identify what are the target industries that we can't be taking a shot
gun approach to recruiting any type of business to the area, you know what are the
priorities in terms of the types of businesses you'd like us to try to be targeting
specifically for the Iowa City area. If you look on the 5th objective the second
one there coordinate update meetings and make regular presentations about ICAD
we asked to be invited to come to this work session tonight, we'd also like you to
feel free to call us anytime you'd like us to come and meet with you or give you
an update on projects or activities etc. The the final few pages 13-15 are an
example of, we decided to start a regular monthly outcomes type of report that
activities are nice but outcomes are a lot nicer. So basically focusing on what
we've accomplished in that month and if you go down through it it's you know
just basically the number of prospects we've talked to, the number of tours we've
had of the area, right down the line number of presentations that have been given
to various groups, for example this month a presentation to about 300 people at
Iowa City Rotary, another presentation to Kalona Economic Development Group.
New investors, we have new one major increase investor this month, the
newsletter is in progress, it will be distributed in February, there are a few key
meetings attended that are listed there, key projects completed, the Rudi's Bakery
project, that looks like it will go in Johnson County which will become North
Liberty, the Industrial Revenue Bonds have been approved and the CEBA grant
was approved with a lot of help from ICAD and also some help there from
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Novartis. The Novartis meeting, the Johnson County Board of Supervisors are
becoming more active in economic development, Integrated DNA, CEBA's
application was submitted and approved by the Coralville City Council and the
state so three kind of big projects that happened this month and were completed.
In terms of progress Proctor and Gamble, a meeting was held last Friday with
them on a potential expansion and new product areas for them. Albany
Molecular. Research which is the new parent company of Enzimed, Marty's been
working with them and several board members as well. Doing the Oakdale
Research Park right now and we're trying to work with them to make sure they
stay on their Oakdale Research Park rather than moving to Albany New York.
DSI, it's Diversified Software Industries, a spin off company, I think of it as at
least off of the Rockwell group, very very fast growing software company. And
then the Rudi's Bakery project we're obviously going to be continuing to work
with. There are two other just update things that we have here that you may or
may not know about that we've done. This month the discussion within the state,
the governor's proposal and the DNR proposal to have one of the state parks have
a public/private partnership in order to have an executive retreat type of facility
and upscale type of facility with, we've had several board members write to the
governor and the head of DNR to basically suggest that Johnson County had a lot
of wonderful parks and perhaps that with the University and the businesses within
the city and the area that it might be very good location for this time, we didn't
want them to forget Johnson County and just look at Polk County on that. And
the Iowa City, Iowa Child Feasibility Study that project has been headed up by
former Governor Ray, it's gone to a consultant, they'll have a report that will
come out in the next month, the report is, I haven't seen it but it is to say that it is
feasible to have a $270 million dollar investment and they will be able to be self-
supporting as an attraction, a tourist attraction and an educational venue to be
located near the Eastern Iowa Airport. So we will be doing this on a monthly
basis now and giving it to Steve and I assume he will be passing out at least parts
of it, I know you won't read the whole thing, onto you each month. And then I'd
like to open it up to any comments or questions you might have for us or and also
the other board members or Marty.
Lehman/I think it's a great idea.
Rennekamp/Good thank you.
Lehman/Unfortunately sometimes and the only time we hear from some of our of the
groups that we as a city support are at budget time and it's nice to know in
between, I think it's very valuable.
Rennekamp/Yea my boss doesn't pay me if I don't get any reports on a monthly basis.
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Lehman/Yea, so I think it's valuable for Council, and I realize there are a lot of things
that go on in this sort of activity that can't be published out but I just think it's,
and I appreciate your coming and I really would looking forward to you know
period reports as to what's happening.
Rennekamp/Good, thank you.
Vanderhoef/A tally sheet really showing what your doing for the entire region and that' s
real positive to see that and I appreciate that.
Rennekamp/I live in the rural county but it's interesting because I feel like I'm an Iowa
City resident, sometimes Coralville, sometimes Noah Liberty just, I really do
think of it as a region, wonderful region. What?
Lehman/We'll claim you here.
Rennekamp/OK sounds good.
Kanner/Rose, is your budget open to the public?
Rennekamp/Is the budget open to the public? No it's not open to the public because it's
not a public entity, it's a private, you know, corporation that, the fact, I mean the
contributions of the city's is.
Kanner/So your total budget is not open?
Rennekamp/No it's not a published.
Kanner/Can you give us though what the total amount is?
Rennekamp/Not off the top of my head, I'm sorry I really can't, not off the top of my
head I can't but Steve will be able to.
Kanner/What percentages is our $50,000?
Rennekamp/It's roughly 20, it's roughly 20 percent, I mean I think it's around a quaaer
of a million dollars annual budget and it's roughly 20 percent.
Kanner/What were looking at is a very tight budget I'm seeing you know where there are
areas that are possible to cut back and maybe it's possible that the private industry
could pick up some more of that $50,000.
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Rennekamp/It's one of the things that we've been talking about as a board too, and
ideally I would agree with you. The private industry, some private industry really
benefits from you know additional population in the area. Other private industry
would say just kind of the opposite, that sometimes people feel like it's going to
drive their wage rights up so why would they as an industry subsidize it and that
their comment back is you know is the city's are the ones that really benefit from
this because they get the property taxes so it's, you know we're absolutely going
to try to increase that contribution from other entities. But I don't, you know, I
just I don't want to be going into another fund raising drive coming up. But you
know one of the things that I think is a surprise to me when you really sit down
and look at the numbers is that almost 60 percent of the jobs that have been
created have been created in Iowa City at 20 percent of the budget, I was surprised
by that, I was surprised, it says to me that there's pretty good return on the
investment probably.
Lehman/Rose we're going to be looking at a new program next Monday or Tuesday, I
mean Steve's got some ideas on economic development which I'm looking
forward to hear what our plans are and how they will and I suspect that they will
kind of intertwine with the efforts of ICAD where as I think we can.
Rennekamp/I sure hope so.
Lehman/Where we can be even a better partner than we are but those discussions
obviously will take place when we receive and Steve explains some plans that the
city's going to have as well.
Rennekamp/The other thing I think can be a real value is if you as a Council can help
target industries ones that you really need to think (can't hear).
Lehman/I believe that' s part Steve's plan.
Rennekamp/Good, good, that's great.
Kanner/And you mentioned a creation of an opportunity for startup businesses, and how
many referrals have you done for that?
Rennekamp/I can't tell you the, the, Marty would you have an idea off the top of your
head? I don't know the breakdown on that, you'd like over 9 the years?
Kanner/Well this is in your, maybe in the last year or last 9 years yea.
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Rennekamp/Yea, Marry did you have a feel for? We have just started keeping specific
categories just this month, we're starting to category, you know keeping the
category tabulations OK so before they were just keeping track of the inquiries
rather than the specific types, do you have a feel for how many start up businesses
there were Marty?
Lehman/Marty, you need to talk into the microphone, it won't work. We're recording
this for prosperity.
Marty Kelly/We get a lot of inquiries on the small start up business but most of them are
on the retail side which we can offer a lot of help and demographic and lead them
to the proper people to talk to but outside of that.
Rennekamp/So their referrals yea right.
Kelly/There' s not much else we can do on space, the rent so on and so forth. We get
some on the technical side which are probably very limited and we hopefully can
recruit those kind which is ones we try to steer to the research part primarily.
Kanner/So there is going to be, you say your going to try to keep these statistics is there
going to be a yearly evaluation then of what you did in a report card will be given
by the board of directors?
Rennekamp/I don't know if a report card per say but yes an evaluation absolutely.
Kanner/I think being your a public body we need some sort of a report card to see if your
doing your job or not to borrow a $50,000 investment.
Rennekamp/I think and I'd say the report card is your evaluation of ours versus the
ICAD board evaluation.
Kanner/Well maybe we need a report from staff of how much they think we're getting
and (can't hear) a look at.
Rennekamp/Makes sense, yea, sure.
O'Donnell/I think this ix an incredible report here, we've got figures like, and I sit on this
board so I'm well aware of these people and the work they do but we've got 57 to
60 percent of the jobs right here in Iowa City. 3,200jobs created, payroll of $63
million dollars, those are very impressive figures for a $50,000 investment.
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Wilburn/One of the questions I have and I think this is for your benefit is too, when you
make presentations to other bodies that contribute since we have some
representatives what types of information which you perceive us looking to our
representatives for differentiating reports that you would be coming and giving to
us? And that's part of us going to be. (can't hear)
Rennekamp/The reports themselves. Steve may not agree with me but one of the things
for example when organizations contact ICAD or we hear from the state, we
(can't hear) from the state from the Department of Economic Development that a
prospect is interested in Iowa and interested and we think we might have a good
location. We absolutely don't control where they go, we ICAD, they tell Marty
the specifications of what they need, they tell him how much land they need, do
they need rail siding, you know what sort of water supplies they need, you know
what their looking for in terms of incentives etc. You know what their looking for
in terms of whether they lease or build and those specifications basically guide
where we tell the prospect and where we show them and if isn't there we can't
show it to them. In a lot of the time period in this 9 years there really wasn't
much land available in Iowa City where there's a lot more land available in
Coralville, in North Liberty. So if there isn't something that meets their
specifications, you know where those are the types of things that I think Steve can
guide you on you know whether or not there could be zoning things you could be
doing or you know TIF districts that you know looking at boundary changes or
whether there are incentives that you might you know new types of incentives
things where maybe you could become involved with prospects that are looking
at the city and helping to recruit them here. I would think those are the things that
Steve is going to be able to better inform you than ICAD would be able to inform
you.
Vanderhoef/We need the infrastructure kinds of things too but we didn't have (can't
hear).
Rennekamp/Yea, you've got a wonderful.
Vanderhoef/And so we're fight on the (can't hear) I think of being able to really push
forward with our economic development plan because we've got (can't hear)
putting the infrastructure in here and you've got things to sell.
Rennekamp/Right. That weren't here.
Pfab/When you (can't hear) you have a short history here, so I'm just going to say when
you and the ICAD as an organization looks back and says well we feel that 2 or 3
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items were strong motivators for generally businesses to locate here or whatever,
services is there any that jump out?
Rennekamp/In general I believe the quality of our labor force is the number one thing
and if we don't have a quality labor force they can't do anything here.
Pfab/OK. So, the next item, what's (can't hear).
Rennekamp/The location is very very important, you know we're basically at the
intersection of, or we will be at the intersection of two major interstates and the
central location of the United States very important. Proximity of the University
and the capabilities of the University are very important to some types of
businesses. For example, we'd like to see it more important to the Proctor &
Gamble Health Care group, that you know that you know they just recently tried
to acquire a pharmaceutical company, wouldn't it be great if they put some
pharmaceutical things in Iowa City and how the liaison with the University.
There are things like incentives, that much as personally I go to bed at night and
think gees we shouldn't have to do that it's the way of the world. And some of
the organizations basically go out on the Internet, they look for what sort of
incentives are there, if there are no incentives they don't bother, you get crossed
off the list and never consider.
Pfab/When you (can't hear) industries or services decide not to move here what were
you starting the thing caused them most of them to go or not locate versus (can't
hear)?
Rennekamp/Sometimes it's the incentives that you know they've got such an attractive
package someplace else.
Pfab/So your saying that's probably the strongest, the reason (can't hear).
Rennekamp/Swing factor type.
Pfab/Other sites.
Rennekamp/I think so probably yea.
Pfab/OK other packages, what would be the next reason you think we lose them?
Rennekamp/This is not scientific.
Pfab/(can't hear).
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Rennekamp/Probably sometimes not feeling like they could get enough of a specific type
of labor.
Pfab/Shortage of labor (can't hear).
Rennekamp/Of a skilled, of a very skilled labor force, that sometimes swings a company.
Sometimes, you know why we know it was wonderful but people coming from
New York or New Jersey decide that gee they'd rather go to Florida or North
Carolina or so sometimes there's kind of a, you know weather we're not going to
do anything about. The other one that I think conversely to that one I think that
often works in our favor is if we can get somebody to visit Iowa we can do a lot
and especially if they have children you know because they like the feel of Iowa
that we you know we don't do everything perfect for children but we do a lot
better than a lot of states, good education system.
Kanner/Rose has the staff traveled out of the country on a regular basis as part of...
Rennekamp/No not in recent years. In fact, not at all in the last couple of years. I would
guess probably the past three years there' s been no foreign travel at all. There
was at one time because there was a, for example when PMX came to Cedar
Rapids, PMX is a metals company and it was it's the, I believe, at least at the time
it was the largest single investment, a foreign investment from Korea into the
United States came to Cedar Rapids. At that time it looked very very promising
to have additional Korean investment at the same time we had a lot of good
prospects from Japanese companies as well, Masusha looked very very closely at
this area for compressor plant because of the proximity to both Maytag and
Amana and other factors here. So it made sense at one time to be doing
particularly Asian travel to be talking to those companies and interacting with
those companies. Today it, for example investors tell us that's the way down on
the list so we're not doing it. We're not doing, and Korea obviously the economy,
Japan the economy it wouldn't make sense so we've not been having any ICAD
types of travel to outside the country at all.
Pfab/I have a question. How does your Internet capabilities compare with others that
you are in contact with? Is this a?
Rennekamp/In terms of a web site or the area?
Pfab/Well whatever however you so choose to use the Internet. Do you have a very
strong web site?
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Rennekamp/No.
Pfab/OK that's an area you can work on.
Rennekamp/Absolutely.
Pfab/Are you seeing that being much of a factor as you look around who your
competitors are?
Rennekamp/It's becoming more of a factor so it's one of the things we want to do, yea.
Probably we'll do it in somehow aligned not necessarily exactly with the chamber
but the Chamber of Commerce is doing a web site and it probably doesn't make
sense for us to develop a totally separate one. We could probably do it more
inexpensively if we'll somehow do it in tandem with the chamber.
Lehman/Rose we'll be heating from you folks kind of regular, a little report?
Rennekamp/Hope so.
Lehman/I really do appreciate it because I think and of course all of us would love to see
every bit of development appear in Iowa City and obviously that's not going to
happen. But when a development occurs in our surrounding neighborhoods it also
benefits for both of us who live here I mean there are folks that live here, build
homes here, pay taxes here whatever. Thank you for coming, keep the cards and
letters coming.
Kanner/Thanks for coming.
Lehman/We're going to take 5 minutes guys.
PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
A. ZONING DESIGNATION FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY
RESIDENTIAL (RS-5) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY- LOW DENSITY
RESIDENTIAL (OSA-5) AND APPROVING A PRELIMINARY SENSITIVE
AREAS DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THREE FOUR-UNIT BUILDINGS ON
A 2.72 ACRE PROPERTY LOCATED NORTH OF ROHRET ROAD, WEST
OF HIGHWAY 218. (REZ99-0012) (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Franklin/OK the first item is a little bit peculiar in that we've put it back on not just as a
first consideration but also as public discussion because there was a notice snafu
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with this and we want to make sure that there was an opportunity for public
discussion, however nobody came last time and so this is a particularly important
one that we allow that opportunity. OK. Are there any questions on that project?
This is the Rohret Road project.
Kanner/So what letter is this here?
Franklin/Item A and number 6 item A. It's the rezoning on Rohret Road for the
condominiums.
Kanner/OK.
B. PUBLIC HEARING ON A RESOLUTION TO AMEND THE COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN TO ADOPT AND INCORPORATE THE SOUTH CENTRAL PLAN
FOR PROPERTY GENERALLY LOCATED EAST OF HIGHWAY 218,
SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 1 AND WEST OF HTE IOWA RIVER.
Franklin/OK the next item is the public heating on the resolution to amend the comp.
plan for the South Central District Plan, you've gone through that with Bob so
I'm not going to say anything about that.
C. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE CHANGING HTE ZONING
DESIGNATION FROM NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL (CN-1) TO
COMMERCIAL OFFICE (CO-l) FOR 2.5 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED
ON THE WEST SIDE OF FIRST AVENUE AT TUDOR DRIVE.
Franklin/Item C is the public hearing on the rezoning from CN-1 to CO-12.5 acres
located on the west side of First Avenue at Tudor Drive. This is the what' s
become known as the Mercy rezoning. The Planning & Zoning Commission has
recommended denial on this at a vote of 0-7. I'd like to take this opportunity to
publicly apologize to the Planning & Zoning Commission for a misunderstanding
and miscommunication on the part of the staff as to what our position was.
Having said that there are two questions that the Council should be looking at
when you consider this. The first question deals with the change and the zoning
from CN-1 to CO-l, and the question for you to consider is whether this is an
appropriate change or not. I think and Pam Ehrhardt is here from the Planning &
Zoning Commission I will try to present the position of the Commission, which I
believe is a very valid position. That position is that we should retain the CN-1
zone in this particular location at First and Rochester to allow the provision of
neighborhood services in this area. This is predicated on the fact that this
neighborhood is not totally built out at this time that there' s still considerable
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development which could take place in this larger neighborhood and First Avenue
has not been completed to Captain Irish Parkway. Such that when those two
events occur there will be much greater demand in this area for neighborhood
services and those opportunities should be retained in this area as opposed to
changing to it to allow a greater dominance of office usage. Is that OK Pam?
And this is resting in the principles that are in the comprehensive plan and is
dealing with this very first question of the zone change. Once you get to the point
of deciding one way or another whether that zone change is appropriate. If you
decide that it is appropriate, that the office uses will not unnecessarily dominate
this area and that there is sufficient neighborhood commercial zoning at this
particular location to provide for the future of the neighborhood. Then what you
look at are the particular's of this proposal and that' s where we look at the very
specific design issues. In this proposal, the design issues that we had to deal with
and let me give you a location map just in case for some reason folks don't know
where we are. We're talking about approximately 2 acres in the CN-1 zone at
First and Rochester. And the neighborhood that is served by this goes beyond this
location map which would be north up into the noah east district.
Champion/Would it be considered all the way to Dodge Street?
Franklin/I think probably that would be going a little bit far, Govemor maybe, out to
about midway to Scott because I would imagine, well our noah east district plan
shows another commercial area at the intersection of Scott and Rochester. We
also have a small commercial area shown on the northeast plan in that in the
extreme noaheast part where Captain Irish and whatever the road is that goes
noah Scott Boulevard and Coil Drive at that intersection. We try to space these
so that it is about a mile square that it serves so that nobody has to walk more than
a half a mile to go to the neighborhood commercial. But it also serves different
neighborhoods because particularly when your at the intersection of two arterial
streets your serving the neighborhoods on all of those four quadrants. Irvin.
Pfab/Do I remember correctly that somebody told me that their also concerned about
somebody proposing a change at the intersection of Rochester and Scott?
Franklin/Yes that is an annexation and rezoning that is before the Planning & Zoning
Commission right now and that that you may have received calls on already
although you haven't seen anything on it at all yet. It just it was at the last round
of the P & Z meetings and it's on this week also. What I'm showing you here is
the site plan for the proposed Mercy project and the issues that were pertinent here
as we worked through this and it has been a very complex working through where
the access to First Avenue the first plan that came in had an access point here at
Tudor, that access point has been abandoned and the single access which exist
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would be used for this entire development. As this project was worked through
with Mercy Hospital and as we went through the Planning & Zoning Commission
there were various items that we worked on to try to get this site plan to the point
where it had the least impact in terms of changing the character of this area. And
that was achieved by the single access point, the integration of this parking area
with what exists, pulling this building as far as we could toward the street, not
having parking and drives in front of the building, having pedestrian access to the
building as well as within the commercial development itself. It is with all of
those changes and working through that that we came to the position of
supporting this project.
O'Donnell/Let me ask you a question before you take that down.
Franklin/Yes.
O'Donnell/The footprint of the building on that lot will really not allow for future
expansion because of parking restrictions is that right?
Franklin/Right. There really isn't that much room, you might be able to get a few spaces
in here but you've got to change in grade here that would be difficult to work
with. This is stormwater detention basin over here and so what's being shown
now is the parking that would be required for this 20,000 square foot building,
basically as a primarily an office use.
Wilburn/That's a pretty good drop (can't hear).
Franklin/So I don't know how else you would. It is, it's a property that's had a lot of fill
and so there's a fairly precipitous drop where the fill ends and I don't think that
you could get in enough additional parking to put in any significant increase in the
square footage that would even make it worth while financially.
O'Donnell/OK, that answers my question.
Champion/Karin just a procedure question and I don't mind dealing with this and I
certainly have talked to a lot of people about it. When there are substantial
changes in a project and staff goes from not approving to recommending approval
of a project why doesn't it go back to Planning & Zoning as a new project?
Franklin/Well this is where I had to apologize for the misunderstanding because the
position that we had arrived at by the time this was at Planning & Zoning at their
last meeting was to support the project and this was not made clear to the
Planning & Zoning Commission. I do not believe that the staff changed the
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recommendation from before the Planning & Zoning Commission vote to after.
But that the articulation of the position was not clear at that last meeting of the
Planning & Zoning. Bob has met with the chair and another member of the
Commission to try and work out some of this process. And what we have resolved
is that if there is a change from the original staff report that there must be a
written articulation of the position before the Commission takes their last vote.
And as with any project the Commission's recommendation and the staff
recommendation may not be the same.
Champion/Right, right.
Franklin/And it's all part of the input that goes to the Council but I think it's always, it
has to be clearly understood what our position is and then what is going to be
taken on to the city council. That the Council has to hear a full explanation of the
Commission's position and a full explanation of the staffs position as you will
get a public input and you take all of that and put it in the stew and weigh and
decide what your going to do.
Lehman/Karin if Council finds them self inclined to agree with staff would it be
appropriate for us to have a joint meeting with Planning & Zoning?
Franklin/Yes you must.
Lehman/Oh must.
Franklin/You must, you must offer it.
Lehman/Not only is it appropriate it's required.
Franklin/It's a resolution yes, and that was a change from when it would require an
extraordinary majority vote of the Council.
Kanner/I'm sorry say that again the last thing.
Franklin/It was a change from when, it used to be that if the Council were going to vote
differently from the Planning Commission on a rezoning that it would require 6
out of the 7 members of the Council to vote that way in order for it to succeed. I
don't remember when this was, I think probably 83 or some time then, it wasn't
83 when we did the new zoning ordinance. That was changed and a resolution
was adopted that said the Council would meet with the Commission on any item
at which you differed to have that consultation before you actually voted but your
not required to have 6 out of 7 to pass it then. Now you must offer the
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consultation, the Planning & Zoning Commission does not have to respond and I
think we've had some cases in the last couple of years when that's occurred when
it hasn't been a particularly issue.
Lehman/Right, tomorrow night at the public hearing when you, you will, I will ask you
to make a short presentation would you at the time you make the presentation
indicate to the Council and to the public how this change or why does this not fit,
I'd like to know the difference between CN-1 zone and this. How is this, why
doesn't this fit? In other words could you do that?
Franklin/OK. Yes. Do you guys need that now or can I?
Lehman/I think it would be appropriate to do it at the public hearing where everybody
can hear it.
Wilburn/I have a question about this zoning in general.
Franklin/Sure.
Wilburn/Are those, I looked at the city code and the descriptions of each one of the zones
that, is that, are those our definitions or are those state definitions, each one of
those zones.
Franklin/It's ours.
Wilbum/OK. And so when was the last time each one of those was (can't hear).
Franklin/Was redefined. Well we did a comprehensive rezoning the whole ordinance
was changed and format and nomenclature in 83. We have since that time done a
number of amendments to that code to the CN-1 zone itself we have done oh
probably 3 or 4 substitive amendments increasing the size of restaurants,
increasing the allowable square footage for office, putting in design guidelines for
pedestrian access, adding some other permitted uses to it. It has been a zone that
we have tinkered with.
Pfab/Have you seen, has there been a trend and which way the changes are proceeding, is
it getting more restrictive or are you opening it up?
Franklin/Well I'd say for the most part it is becoming less restrictive.
Pfab/So it's fine of those changes this bill had a problem?
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Franklin/Well yes because the square footage, when the changes were made to allow
more, or to allow office space and to allow more office space they were made to
contain that also to not have it just be an open office zone so that it was not
dominated by office uses. So that you could not within the CN-1 for instance get
an office complex like ACT or NCS. But that you could have small offices and I
think probably one of the things that is happening now is that we're seeing
changes in the medical profession in terms of how medical offices are structured,
what their made up of and how they relate to the communities. It used to be, oh
I'll say 50 years ago because I can't remember then.
Lehman/I can.
Franklin/That you could have, you'd have doctors offices sprinkled throughout
neighborhoods, individual doctors offices that could be in neighborhoods, and we
allowed that in the zoning also. Then we got to a point of kind of separating that
out and putting office uses in one place. Now we're kind of, there's another trend
of moving some of these kinds of service sorts of uses back into the
neighborhoods and so we're constantly working on that balance of how much
commercial or service types of uses you get in residential areas before it becomes
onerous to the residential area because of traffic and other stuff.
Pfab/So, back to what, I think I'm hearing you say, double checking, you start with a
with a zone, zoning rules, you gradually made them more liberal.
Franklin/In this instance yea.
Pfab/In this instance and this still had difficulty despite of this being liberalized, the
restrictions being liberalized.
Franklin/Yea.
Pfab/So in other words if keep the envelope a little bit farther.
Franklin/That is why we had to look at a zone change as opposed to, the other thing that
was discussed in all of this was amending the CN-1 zone again. And that
becomes kind of a much larger philosophical conceptual kind of issue. And I
guess I have some problems if we're going to have a concept of neighborhood
commercial of changing it too often and opening it up too much if that' s the
direction we're going in maybe we need to revisit the whole existence of the
concept. I wouldn't recommend that but if you powers that be wish to you know
go in that direction then obviously we'll look at it.
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Lehman/Well you don't see an inherent difficulty in the CN-1 zone?
Franklin/No I don' t, no.
Vanderhoef/OK.
Franklin/Now some people would disagree with me, I'm looking at audience members.
Vanderhoef/I question this so what I want to know is what percent of this total
neighborhood commercial area fight now, what percent could be office space and
then what does this do since this apparently builds it out to the total capacity of
this input space?
Franklin/OK as we have tweaked the CN-1 zone to try to make it fit different desires at
different times it has become exceedingly complex. That sometimes happen when
you try and accommodate too many things. Right now there is provision that 15
percent of the total floor area, on the ground floor office space can be used for
office uses, that's 15 percent for the ground floor. You take the office space on all
floors that can not exceed 30 percent. Now I would say that the rationale for that
of why there is the distinction between the ground floor and all floors is because
the idea was that what you hit on the street when you first come into this area
should be those uses that are considered to be neighborhood service types of uses.
The video store, the dry cleaners, the florist, the drug store, the whatever, that is
going to provide you those services. OK that's the general requirement. On the
ground floor in this particular CN-1 zone fight now and this is speculating on the
new building being built the 20,000 some square feet. You can have 9,397 square
feet of office space, there exists 2,928 so the remainder is 6,469 square feet that
you can have on the ground floor. In this particular building, well this is a two-
story building with the lower level being basically underground except for this
space being out. I believe at this point the interpretation would be that the upper
floor was the upper story, so that upper story which is in this building
approximately 10,000 square feet could only be 6,469 square feet. OK.
Lehman/Kafin this is the sort of thing I would like you to explain tomorrow night at the
public heating.
Franklin/Oh do you think it would be clear to anybody?
Lehman/No I don't but on the other hand.
Champion/I don't think so.
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Franklin/I mean I think it will just confound everybody to no end.
Lehman/No but see that will give you approximately 10 hours to condense it into 10
words or less.
Franklin/OK.
O'Donnell/Karin at the meetings has this been received well by the neighbors?
Franklin/Yes. Well there has been very little neighborhood comment about it.
O'Donnell/But nothing negative.
Franklin/At the negative, that's a matter of interpretation. At the neighborhood meeting
that Mercy conducted there were some people there that expressed some concems,
one concem was about screening here, I think there was one concern about traffic
but not appreciably and then someone who owned one of the businesses here was
worried about their parking spaces being consumed. But that all kind of, that did
not occur then at the Planning & Zoning Commission.
O'Donnell/OK.
Pfab/Did that, with the school there and the intersection does that make it even more
complicated?
Franklin/I don't think so.
Lehman/You know I think these comments we should have at the public hearing, these
are things the public should hear.
Franklin/OK. Do you want me to be quite Emie?
Lehman/No I'm just thinking that these issues and I think they are very good point but I
think that should be.
Pfab/Now is this going to be a discussion or a comment?
Lehman/Well it could (can't hear). Which ever you'd like it be Irvin.
Franklin/OK.
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Champion/Let's see, when did the commercial neighborhood commercial what was the
third for that?
Lehman/CN-1, neighborhood commercial zone.
Franklin/Neighborhood commercial zone.
Champion/When was that developed roughly?
Franklin/Oh my, there's somebody who's been here like way longer than me sitting in
the audience.
Lehman/Steve.
Franklin/No. But he does have gray hair too, late 70's.
Doug Boothroy/I would say it was just prior to adoption of the zoning ordinance.
Champion/So then it was your time.
Doug Boothroy/Early 80's.
Champion/There was a time when there were kind of like you've said neighborhood
positions building, there were times where there were small drug stores, where
there were small grocery stores.
Franklin/Seaton's, Watt's, yes.
Champion/It would be wonderful I would love to go back to those but they don't exist
anymore.
Franklin/No.
Champion/So (can't hear) to this.
Kanner/Ernie.
Lehman/Yes.
Kanner/So when would it come in the meeting with P & Z if that were to happen?
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Lehman/Tomorrow night we will open public hearing, we'll take some comments, if it
becomes apparent on the part of the Council that we might choose to agree with
the staff we will then request a meeting with Planning & Zoning Commission and
continue the public heating. Is that correct?
Franklin/Right.
Lehman/Yea.
Pfab/At a later date is that what your saying?
Lehman/Well yea, well we can't have it tomorrow night.
Franklin/No you can't, I think the first conceivable date is the 14th, that is a meeting
which.
Lehman/We may have something else that night.
Franklin/You do you have a meeting with the Library Board.
O'Donnell/We should do this as soon as possible.
Atkins/If you don't load the agenda up anymore I think we could probably get it on the
14th.
Lehman/All right but that' s.
Atkins/The Library Board.
Lehman/But that would be the soonest too that we could meet with them.
Franklin/Yea and that also I think they would appreciate if they could meet with you
before 7:30, Pam's here now she should be at the Planning & Zoning Commission
meeting because we're doing the zoning items late.
Letnnan/Holy cow. All fight, moving along.
D. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE SENSITIVE AREAS
OVERLAY (OSA-8) CONDITIONAL ZONING AGREEMENT TO ALLOW A
DRIVEWAY ACCESS ONTO FOSTER ROAD FOR PROPERTY LOCATED
AT 500 FOSTER ROAD (REZ99-0016)
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Franklin/OK, moving along, the next item then is amending the sensitive areas overlay
conditional zoning agreement to allow driveway access onto Foster Road. This is
the development plan for the Louis Condominiums and the driveway in question
is right here which is Bud and Betty Louis' driveway, this is their house, in this
plan the proposal was to install a asphalt drive in this location out to the new
street that was put in as part of this whole development project. That's just a
bigger shot. The Louis' have come back in the conditional zoning agreement for
Louis Condominiums it was agreed by the Louis' as well as the developer Mr.
Hodge that the driveway would be removed either when Bud and Betty moved out
or when Foster Road construction was done. Obviously Foster Road construction
has been completed, they haven't moved out, the Foster Road construction is
completed and so the driveway was closed. They have come back requesting that
this provision that they close the driveway, have to close the driveway be removed
from the conditional zoning agreement and that they be allowed to have this drive
way at least as long as they live there. That is the proposal before you. The
Planning & Zoning Commission denied this on a vote of 3-4, this vote was on an
amendment that would allow the driveway to remain open only until the Louis'
ceased to occupy the residence and provides an escrow as paid for the alternative
driveway. That was the provision that was before the Planning & Zoning
Commission which failed. The request of the Louis' also to just leave the
driveway failed. The staff is not recommending that this driveway be allowed to
continue, the concern has to do with Foster Road and the fact that this is a road
that is going to be the primary means of access for the entire development west of
the Louis' property. I think one of the things that has been suggested is a possible
compromise is that the driveway be left open until development happens to the
west.
(END OF 00-14 SIDE 1).
Franklin/That the driveway must be closed and that in the interim the escrow for that
driveway be paid by the developer. I would predict that we're probably going to
see development in this area within the next two years, so that's where we are.
Lehman/What's the status, what's the staffs response to allowing the driveway to
remain there until development occurs?
Franklin/I think that gets at the issue which is dealing with the traffic, I mean right now
the traffic on Foster Road is not particularly heavy, it's not, I mean when the Elks
Club has an event that's probably the most heavily a time when it's most heavily
used so the important part of this has to do when development occurs. And so we
have no problem with that as long as it's clear that that's the case and that it will
be closed at that time and the driveway can be reconstructed in another location.
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Pfab/I have a question. Is this something that was entered into freely by the developers
and and the owners? Was there pressure from?
Franklin/Well the pressure is always there Irvin and if you want approval of the
development plan you need to agree to certain things and it's a judgment that the
developer and the owner's have to make at that time as to what do they want. I
would not say by any means that there was coercion.
Pfab/It was free will, it was arm's length transaction?
Franklin/Yes it was.
Pfab/Well and now they want to change it.
Franklin/Yes.
Pfab/And we, how do we know that there won't be another change down the road?
Another request to you know, the first one didn't work, now we're expecting to do
a second one and expect it to work.
Franklin/You don't.
Champion/The problem is that the configuration, the driveway change, isn't that correct?
That width, the road was actually put in deeding the driveway in is actually going
to be very difficult.
Franklin/When this development plan was approved it is clear that there was the
anticipation of this driveway having to be provided.
Champion/Right.
Franklin/That there is a stone wall or a retaining wall there fight now is something that
the developer of this development went ahead and did know that that driveway
had to be put in there. So I mean the design of this alternative driveway was
something that was known from the beginning and if there are problems with the
location of it now or the grade of it now or the fact that there's a retaining wall
there now the developer was quite aware that this was going to be needed to be
put in at some point.
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O'Donnell/I don't think that's the problem, the wall is there they're just asking a
compromise to use the old driveway until the road justifies enough usage you
can't use it.
Lehman/If the Council again on this item chooses to disagree with the Planning &
Zoning Commission and for example were to say that it would be OK to use that
drive until development occurs that would require that we discuss that with the
Planning & Zoning Commission as well.
Franklin/I think you could offer that consultation, my guess is that the Commission
probably would not have a problem with that.
Lehman/But we should offer, I mean if that were inquired. Steven.
Franklin/Yea.
Kanner/Over the last let' s say 10 years how often, do we, this Council overturn a zoning
agreement?
Champion/Doesn't very often.
Kanner/Has it happened in the last 10 years?
Franklin/Boy, I, did we do it once?
Lehman/We did.
Franklin/What?
Lehman/American Legion Road when a fellow bought three lots and had two accesses
and was going to reduce it to one.
Franklin/American Legion Road, I'm totally blank.
Lehman/Well there were two accesses there.
Franklin/Was it a conditional zoning agreement that we changed?
Lehman/No, no.
Franklin/Oh well that was the question.
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Lehman/I'm sorry, we were just overruling, we did overrule Planning & Zoning on that.
Franklin/No, what your talking about is when we've entered a conditional zoning
agreement that all parties have agreed to how many times have we gone back and
changed those.
Lehman/How about Wal-Mart?
Franklin/No we didn't.
Lehman/We didn't, we had conditional agreement there, that's correct, and the staff
themselves made the first exclusion to it and then the Council did the second one
when we allowed Staples to build.
Franklin/You're right.
Lehman/It was deviation for one and agreement.
Franklin/Your fight, your fight.
Lehman/That was a few years ago.
Franklin/Although we never agreed that that initial one was a deviation from the
approved plan.
Lehman/Even though it was.
Franklin/Respectfully disagree.
Kanner/One other thing, who submitted these pictures, was it?
Franklin/The Louis' yea.
Pfab/Is this, the developer that brought the plans is not really a morn and pop developer
fight?
Franklin/Is what?
Pfab/Their mom and pop developer.
Champion/No.
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Pfab/I mean they've been around the horn a couple of times.
Franklin/Mr. Hodge.
Pfab/Yea.
Franklin/No he's no stupid developer I'm sure.
Pfab/So that should have been no surprise to somebody.
Franklin/Right.
Pfab/I mean having a lot of experience in doing those kind of things, this is not
something that snuck in when nobody was looking.
Franklin/No, I think probably it's pretty well known in the community that the city takes
a fairly serious look at access questions to arterial streets. I mean we're very, to
arterial streets and to special circumstances like this a collector which is almost
going to the function as a secondary arterial because if we can't, we have trouble
getting capacity expansions on streets and so we look very carefully at the access
question. I don't think restriction on the access was particular surprise to the
developer, it may, the Louis' are not developers, they live on the property they
owned it, they sold it to a developer and they continue to live there.
Pfab/Might is this something that maybe shouldn't be a problem with the city maybe it's
something that should be taken up with the developer?
Franklin/No because the agreement is with the city so, no it would, in terms of who
actually is responsible for paving that alternative driveway I think that's between
the Louis' and the developer. But in terms of the driveway remaining open or
closing that's between both of those parties and the city.
Pfab/And basically it's a public safety issue.
Franklin/That' s right, and traffic circulation yea.
Pfab/Public safety.
Franklin/Well I think probably what' s out there although it's not the conditional zoning
agreement that you have in your packets but did you get another one tonight?
Lehman/Yea.
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Dilkes/Yea we handed out the Option 2, the one you got in the packet was a complete
elimination of the restriction, and the one that you got handed out tonight was for
so long as they live there.
Franklin/For so long as they live there so I guess the question is you've got these choices
that you can allow this driveway to remain, that was the first ordinance you got,
the second one is it remains until the Louis' cease to live there, the third is it
remains until development occurs to the west and both of those second
alternatives there is an escrow account for the cost of that driveway to be the
alternative to be built.
Kanner/The one for the option where they until they cease to live there, does it carry on
if their kids or someone else keeps it?
Franklin/No it would be specific to Bud and Betty living there and not to their
successors.
Lehman/OK.
Dilkes/The third option we don't have it drafted.
Lehman/Right.
Dilkes/Zoning agreement.
Franklin/So if you decide that you're going to do that we need to then continue the
public hearing so that we can do another ordinance.
Lehman/Well and offer to discuss it with P & Z again.
Franklin/Right.
Lehman/Because that would be disagreeing with them.
Franklin/Right.
Lehman/OK.
E. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM
LOW DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM-12) AND MEDIUM
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DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-8) TO PLANNED
DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-12/11.79 ACRES) AND
OPDH-8/1.47 ACRES) AND APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED
DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY PLAN FOR WINDSOR RIDGE,
PART 15, A PROPOSED 98-UNIT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT
LOCATED NORTH OF COURT STREET AT ITS EASTERN TERMINUS.
(REZ99-0011) (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Franklin/OK the next item is Windsor Ridge and I just want to put up part 15 very
quickly, this is so tiny but Dee there's a sidewalk from the parking now to the
door, I know that doesn't totally satisfy your concern but this has been added to
the plan on those two buildings. Are there any questions about this project?
F. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM
PLANNED HIGH DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (PRM) TO
SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLY (OSA-PRM) AND APPROVING A
PRELIMINARY SENSITIVE AREAS DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR
APPROXIMATELY .28 ACRES LOCATED AT 522 S. DUBUQUE STREET
(REZ99-0013) (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Franklin/OK the next one is the rezoning on Dubuque Street first consideration. We OK
with that one?
Lehman/Right.
G. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A FINAL PLAT OF SCOTT
BOULEVARD EAST, PART 4, A 7.36-ACRE, 15-LOT RESIDENTIAL
SUBDIVISION WITH ONE OUTLOT LOCATED AT SCOTT PARK DRIVE
AND HUMMINGBIRD LANE.
Franklin/OK a resolution approving a final plat of Scott Boulevard part 4, this has been
deferred.
Lehman/Till?
Franklin/It was deferred on January 18.
Lehman/But it's not to be deferred tomorrow.
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Franklin/No not if the legal papers come in by noon tomorrow, we'll let you know.
Lehman/OK.
Franklin/Are there any questions on this one? You know where it is. Do you want
anything on it? We went through it.
Kanner/Just real quick if you would.
Franklin/OK. This is a subdivision over on the east side. Scott, this is Washington here
and this is Scott Park Drive that comes down to Court Street down here. This is
the location of the elderly housing project that is under construction right now in
here. And these are lots in the county. What this would create is additional single
family lots here and here we have a walk way through this lot and let's see what
other features? It's pretty straight forward.
Vanderhoef/This is the one where we're doing the narrow street.
Franklin/Yes, this is the one where this street Hummingbird Lane is 25 feet because
where it's going to serve is so limited, it was brought in by the developers and we
had some discussion on that as to which way it should go. OK.
Pfab/What are the benefits to doing it this way?
Franklin/To doing which what way?
Pfab/By making the streets so narrow, I mean I'm just asking a question, I don't know.
Franklin/Less paving.
Lehman/Slower traffic too, on residential streets they move slower on 25 foot streets.
Franklin/It's probably a street where your going to have parking on one side.
Pfab/Is it a way to go through it or is it a loop?
Franklin/OK let me show you.
Pfab/Can somebody (can't hear) take a short cut through there.
Franklin/I don't know why they would, what I think most people, what most people are
going to try to do is get out to Scott Boulevard or Court Street down here. They
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are going to be coming Court from the east. The people that are going to be using
this road I think are going to be primarily these folks that are going to live in those
single family houses. At this point it turns into I don't know it probably isn't
even chip seal, it's probably gravel and oil out to Lower West Branch Road.
Pfab/But it would be developed at some point?
Franklin/At some point.
Pfab/So somebody would use it.
Franklin/You could, why you would I don't know why you would.
Pfab/It don't make any sense, don't make any sense like you said, OK I just.
Franklin/Occasionally people will but I think it's going to be a big issue.
Pfab/So in other words, what I was concerned is that, because it's there it's going to be
more dangerous to be living there.
Franklin/No it will not.
Pfab/That's my only concern.
Franklin/We've done a study of 25 foot wide, 28 foot wide streets in terms of accidents
and speed and basically there's no distinction.
H. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLAT OF SOUTH
POINTE ADDITION, PART 7, A RESUBDIVISION OF PORTIONS OF
SOUTH POINTE ADDITION, PARTS 2 AND 3, AN 8.08 ACRE, 25-LOT
RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION WITH TWO OUTLOTS LOCATED AT THE
WEST TERMINUS OF LANGENBERG AVENUE AND HEMINGWAY LANE
(SUB99-0008)
Franklin/OK next is approving a preliminary plat of South Pointe Addition Part 7. This
is an old one that came out of Planning & Zoning in November and the issues that
have been worked on are the grading plan. This is down, it's called South Point
Part 7, it's 8 acres in south Iowa City off of Sycamore and it is a resubdivision of
this shaded area.
Pfab/I believe that's, is that Wetherby Park up on (can't hear)?
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Franklin/Yep, fight there. The primary change is the elimination of a cul de sac here and
incorporation of the storm water management into a single storm water
management basin in outlot A in this location and then it's just single family lots
much very similar to what' s there already.
Pfab/Is, what are the pros of this and what are cons on that?
Franklin/Pardon me.
Pfab/Is there any, is it just a plain development no wiggling, there are no pushing and
shoving to get in?
Vanderhoef/How far is this from our stormwater South Sycamore storm water?
Franklin/The South Sycamore stormwater is down here.
Vanderhoef/Clear down. OK.
Franklin/Yea I mean this is the Niffenegger's here and so it's kind of like over there.
Vanderhoef/All fight so there's no way to connect on that?
Franklin/No no it's going a different way on some very fiat ground. OK that one is
ready to go. And I'm done.
Lehman/OK. You know we have Reviewing Agenda Items as the next item on the
agenda but we're running quite a bit behind, would you like to do that at the same
time as Council time and just proceed with the Englert Theater?
O'Donnell/Sure.
Vanderhoef/I think that' s a good idea.
Lehman/Because we've got people waiting to speak to that.
Helling/If you have a question about the revision on the Human Rights Ordinance,
Heather is here.
Lehman/Oh, well let's do that one.
Champion/That's the one that (can't hear) you mean?
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Council Time
1. (Item #14 - CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CITY CODE TITLE 2,
ENTITLED "HUMAN RIGHTS," CHAPTER 1, ENTITLED "GENERAL
PROVISIONS," SECTION 1, ENTITLED "DEFINITIONS," REGARDING
THE DEFINITION OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Kanner/Well I did have a question. What number is that?
Champion/Number 14.
Lehman/14.
Kanner/Heather.
Heather Shank/Hi.
Kanner/Yea I liked this new definition but why do you have to put in that "sexual
orientation does not include participation acts which are prohibited by law"?
Shank/Because there has always been some concern by citizens across the nation or in
the municipality of Iowa City and elsewhere that this would permit persons to
perform illegal acts. And you know that includes pedophilia and people are
frequently homosexual have frequently been accused of being pedophilics because
they have a sexual orientation that's contrary to heterosexuality. Now that' s
something that is a myth and generally if you look at the statistics petafiles are
generally heterosexual white males however because people are very insecure that
particular sentence has been placed in the wording of this ordinance and the
wording in Cedar Rapids and elsewhere just to reassure the public that this
doesn't include petafiles. I'm serious that people you know believe that we
protect.
Kanner/But like you said I don't think we have to buy into that myth, I think as a
Council we can say we don't need that, we're better than that. I think that's
something we should consider striking that from the ordinance.
Pfab/Or just as ways of raising a red flag unnecessarily so get rid of it.
Lehman/Well I think you have to be sensitive to the concerns of the public too, I mean
we represent the public, I happen to agree with you totally but on the other hand if
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that is something that gives comfort to the public and doesn't materially change
the meaning of the ordinance I guess I don't have a problem.
O'Donnell/Are you comfortable with the ordinance the way it is?
Shank/I'm comfortable with it.
Pfab/(can't hear).
Shank/I believe that you know I am sensitive to people that are perhaps not as well as
informed as others and have fear that may be unfounded. And I am very much in
favor of (can't hear) the ordinance and if this is going to make people who would
not like to see it updated feel more comfortable with it then I would go with it
because it's not going to happen beating on the enforcement.
Pfab/But it's going to have a (can't hear) that goes on for years and years and years that I
think is better, I support Steven on this that if your going to have a break let' s
have a break (can't hear).
Shank/And I go with whatever you all decide. I mean I would prefer to just have the
language changed if you want to remove the last sentence that's fine, I think it
needs to be updated whether or not you decide to put in that last sentence is up to
you.
Pfab/So basically your saying as long as it's changed the last sentence is optional on
your part?
Shank/It's up to you. I do want it to be changed however because I do believe it's time.
Pfab/All right. In other words your willing to accept that the tail there if it means the rest
gets changed but if you had your choice it would be there.
Shank/Your welcome and thank you very much.
Lehman/Thank you Heather. Anybody else waiting for Agenda Items?
2. (ITEM #21) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND
AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO
ATTEST A CONTRACT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A SINGLE
FAMILY HOME UNDER THE AFFORDABLE DREAM HOME
OPPORTUNITIES PROGRAM.
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Atkins/Yea Affordable Housing Unit, we've had a little difficulty.
Karr/Steve would you turn your mic on.
Lehman/Well we can do that quick, I've got a question about that too.
Atkins/OK.
O'Donnell/What number's that?
Lehman/Doug tonight I think we got a memo from you regarding the we have apparently
set out for bids for Dream House or?
Champion/Right.
Lehman/And we did not get any bids.
Doug Boothroy/We didn't get a successful bid, we did get one bid but they withdrew it.
Lehman/OK. And you recommend that we sell the property?
Boothroy/Yes. To Moore Construction Company, they would build the house and then
we would buy the house from them. It would be built as a Dream built affordable
housing unit but the difference here is we'd be buying the finished product from a
contractor much like we did with Southgate when we bought those units on the
south side and it doesn't require going through the bidding process.
Lehman/Doesn't this, I mean to me we tried to bid this project, we got no bids, so we
didn't get bids we're going out and we're asking somebody to build a project that
we just bid. Is that right?
Boothroy/That's correct.
Lehman/Why did we do that?
Boothroy/Well at the time we did the project I wasn't aware that anybody would be
interested in taking on the risk of doing this. This requires, as you recall this is a
different construction style, it's more expensive and I had not had a conversation
with Ben, I'm not even sure ifthere's anybody else out there that would do this
project. When we finally went out to bid and I went to the Home builder's
Association to talk about the Parade of Homes I had an opportunity to talk to Ben
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Moore and he said he would be interested in doing it only because of his interest
in providing working with the city, he served on the Housing Commission for a
number of years as a chair and he thought it would, he'd like to help us out.
Unfortunately he had, he was ill most of the time that the bidding process was
going and he just didn't feel up to submitting the bid so when this problem
occurred we only had two interested parties, T-Mass and Moore Construction ever
express any interest in even bidding in the process, one bid and one withdrew
which was T-Mass. I called, as I indicated in my memorandum, I called Ben to
find out whether or not he would be willing to take on the risk of you know
basically he up fronts the construction cost and goes through this whole process.
Lehman/But he's not taking a risk if we're going to buy it from him.
Champion/Right.
Boothroy/That' s true, that' s true because we will buy it ultimately but I think that I guess
what I'm trying to say is that the to get somebody interested in doing this on the
front end is not is not that easy.
Lehman/But if he wants to built it why can't he give us a bid?
Pfab/He said he was ill.
Boothroy/He missed the bid deadline.
Lehman/Fine we'll put it out again and he.
Boothroy/Well then we won't make the Parade of Homes. The whole purpose of this is
to keep it on schedule, if we meet the schedule as I've outlined it here in terms of
putting the resolution and the public hearing for consideration at your next
meeting February 15, we can maintain the schedule for construction of this
house. If we do not make that schedule this house will not be on the Parade of
Homes, it simply can't happen.
Vanderhoef/OK so your saying it's not been bid but we'll buy it back but we don't know
at what price we're going to be buying it back at?
Boothroy/Yes we do know what price, I've talked to him.
Vanderhoef/And how do we know that without the bid?
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Boothroy/I talked to him this afiemoon, I thought he meant formal bid. I talked to Ben
this afternoon and he worked up some numbers and the price would be the same
as what was bid which was 130, plus cost of lot.
Lehman/So $147,0007
Boothroy/Right.
Pfab/So what your saying is instead of buying it back basically he's a contract builder for
you for so many dollars. You're agreeing, you and he are agreeing that he'll
build a house for according to your specs for so many dollars and it's yours at the
end.
Boothroy/When we enter a contract that's correct, that's correct, right.
Champion/So the bid that you got they backed out of.
Boothroy/Yes, they sent me a letter today.
Champion/So now Moore said they will build it for the same price as that bid?
Boothroy/Exactly correct.
Champion/Go for it.
Pfab/Yea, I'm with, that's my feel.
Kanner/So if this.
Lehman/Go ahead Steven.
Kanner/Do we have, before you had said there was no assurance we would get in the
Parade of Homes, are we in?
Boothroy/Yes.
Kanner/OK, when did that decision?
Boothroy/Oh a month ago, fight around the first of the year.
O'Donnell/We wanted to get into the Parade of Homes.
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Boothroy/I went to the Home builders Association, or not home, yea Home builders
Association meeting at the I believe it was at the end of December and I think
there was a press release then fight around the 4th of January on that.
Champion/I just have one more quick question.
Boothroy/OK.
Champion/The person who could buy this house at is at 80 percent of the median
income.
Boothroy/Correct.
Champion/What income is that?
Boothroy/What income range?
Champion/Yea.
Boothroy/Is that about $50,0007
Maggie Grosvenor/Well it depends on the family size.
Boothroy/But let's say family of four.
Grosvenor/I'd say anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000 to $60,000 yea.
Boothroy/Someplace in the $50,000 range yea.
Champion/OK so.
Grosvenor/We have a family fight now that.
Lehman/Maggie talk in the microphone.
Grosvenor/We have a family fight now pre qualified for a $80,000 mortgage to give you
an idea.
Champion/OK that was going to be my next question. Can somebody in that income
bracket afford this house?
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Boothroy/Well as we've done with the other ad hoc houses, there would be a second
mortgage that the city would carry on it and the difference on this one is because
of it's environmental qualities and stuff like that it's going to run a little more
than normal but we will.
Champion/Right, and that's (can't hear).
Boothroy/But we will, we will take care of that (can't hear).
Pfab/So at this point you have a buyer?
Boothroy/We have a preliminarily.
Grosvenor/A qualified prospective buyer.
Boothroy/Right.
Pfab/OK but as of right now we don't have somebody that says I'll take it according to
plans and specs.
Boothroy/That's correct.
Champion/Well there will be somebody who will want it.
Boothroy/There's no question that we'll sell it.
Lehman/Doug how does this price compare to a comparable house conventionally built?
Boothroy/This is more expensive.
Lehman/I know but how much more expensive?
Boothroy/Well can I give you, it'll have to be a ball park.
Lehman/That's fine.
Boothroy/I would guess that it's probably running, this is really a guess Ernie I even hate
to put a number on it at this point, essentially the wall system, the concrete wall
system is what is adding the cost. I'm sure it's adding at a minimum $10,000
more to the cost of this house and it could be more than that, it could be 15.
Champion/I was thinking about the price of the lot.
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Boothroy/It could be close to that.
Lehman/I guess the only problem I have with it, well I've got a couple problems, first of
all we're hiring somebody to build something and we agree to buy it without bid
even though we tried to get a bid and I understand why because we want to get it
in the Parade of Homes. But if we're looking at trying to help a family of low
income or moderate income get into a home and we're going to subsidize it why
are we doing it with a house that's going to cost $15,000 more than a
conventional built house?
Boothroy/Well it gets back to the green built concept in trying to do something that's
innovative and showing some different technology so what we're doing is
coupling two ideas. One we're using the ad hoc program to showcase some
different kind of construction on a smaller scale. And that' s how we got into this
situation. The other thing is what I think you should know is that the bidding
process for single family house probably won't work well even in the future. Part
of the problem is that the city requires bonding and most small contractors or
most contractors are not bonded so it's a relatively small group of individuals that
can even meet that particular criteria. We're looking at mostly the McComas-
Lacina, Frantz, Moore Construction, these individuals are really the only
individuals that can bid on a house and so it's a relatively small group that I can
even get to come forward let alone you know get a good competitive bid.
Pfab/But isn't the real end of this be reduction in the cost of utilities over the life of the
house.
Boothroy/It will have reduced the cost of the utilities.
Lehman/Well I'm aware of that.
Boothroy/Well I mean as far as the owner is concemed.
Pfab/So whether they have a little bit higher mortgage payment but a lot lower utilities.
Lehman/Well how much utilities do you have any idea?
Boothroy/My understanding is it's about 50 percent less.
Lehman/50 percent less, all fight 50 percent less utilities so I don't know how long it
takes to eat up $15,000 but that' s a heck of a lot of money on utilities alone.
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Boothroy/Also the insurance is less too because of the, so they have reduced insurance
rates you reduce utility rates, so it's a combination both of those item.
Pfab/So it is they can save it.
Lehman/I know but they have to live to be 182 to pay out. All fight we'll talk about it.
I'm sorry.
Kanner/I have a question for Eleanor. Could you just briefly explain what the
requirements are for the bidding when we have to bid and not only this kind of
circumstance.
Dilkes/We have to bid public improvement projects that are $25,000 or more so if we are
actually, if we are hiring you know and all of our public improvement projects
that we publicly bid if we're hiring someone to actually construct for us then
that's a and we own the property then that would be something that had to be
competitively bid. In this situation what we're going to do is sell the lot to Moore
and then enter into a purchase agreement to purchase a completed home.
Kanner/So in a sense we're getting around maybe legal but we're getting around the
spirit of why that bidding process is there.
Dilkes/Well I think when Doug first came to us to talk about this project, we said you'll
have to go out for competitive bids because it was a plan, we owned the lot, and
we were going to hire someone to construct an improvement on that lot just as we
would hire someone to construct a water plant or sewer plant or whatever. The
problem is is the competitive bidding because of the reasons that Doug has
explained is not working well. So we had to find another option that will work. I
don't think it's, I just think it's a different way to do it, we've done it before with
Southgate where we've entered into purchase agreements to purchase completed
homes so it's a different method of doing it. The method that Doug originally
proposed was a method that we said had to go through competitive bidding.
Boothroy/I mean we even talked about this the bonding is being the major problem in
getting any bids. I was just I guess I was just sort of ecstatic that we were going
tO get two bids given the fact that we had a bonding issue there because I knew
that if we could find two contractors that needed the work at this time of year
we'd be awfully lucky it could be bonded. The other nice thing about this is, the
only two individuals companies that expressed any interest in coming being
involved in this project will be the same two companies that are involved under
this scheme because the scenario because T-Mass would still be doing the wall
system.
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Kanner/So we'll, as proposed we vote on this February 15 that's our chance for any
discussion.
Boothroy/Well I think one of things that we have to take into account here is if you
proceed on taking action tomorrow night on setting the public hearing and the
disposition. I think the other thing is is that in order to get the project rolling there
needs to be an understanding that this is pretty much you're in for this project
because I've talked to Ben Moore and it's really important that he gets the plans
appraised so that he can get financing, he has to get a construction loan on it, and
there are going to be some initial costs that he's going to occur over this two
weeks as he gets ready to get going. If he waits until the 16th of February then
it's going to take another 2-3 weeks to get rolling on this project and we will miss
the Parade of Homes so I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would like to think
that the commitment to set the public heating tomorrow night would be basically
a commitment to proceed with the project as discussed in the memorandum.
Lehman/The only problem with that Doug is if sometime during the next two weeks
before that public hearing there's in, you know Council finds whatever reasons
that they don't.
Boothroy/I understand.
Lehman/And Ben has already gone out and expended moneys and whatever to line this
thing up and for whatever reason we vote it down it's going to be kind of a bad
surprise to him.
Boothroy/Well I think the worst case scenario on that is that yea I guess that would be
the difficult thing if we decided not to sell the lot to him, all I can see, I don't
know how you can come to that. I guess I can't invision anything that leads you
to that conclusion between now and the next two weeks. You might defer it but I
can't imagine you would decide not to sell it to him.
Dilkes/I think it has to be fairly clear though that your setting a public hearing and you
have the right to change, to listen to public input and make a decision thereafter
and that any purchase of materials by Mr. Moore has got to be at his risk.
Boothroy/I think it's at his risk but what I'm saying is I think there's a moral obligation
ifhe's encouraged to go forward on that.
Lehman/Well I don't know if that's right at all if we set a public hearing we have a moral
obligation to have the hearing.
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Boothroy/OK. I'm not sure then we can make the deadline.
Pfab/Has, I'm only familiar with Greater Iowa City Housing Fellowship, is there ever,
was there ever a role for them to play in this?
Boothroy/No, it's a totally different program in a sense that.
Pfab/But is there a way as a fall back or.
Boothroy/They would not their not in a position to do any construction down there any
more than what their already doing.
Pfab/OK so their maxed out.
Boothroy/Their maxed out.
Champion/It's certainly something I would support but I really don't want to make that
decision until the public hearing.
Boothroy/No I understand that I'm just I think what I was trying to encourage you to get
a strong feeling from you because it is another two weeks.
Lehman/Well we hear you, we know what your saying. OK. Thank you.
Boothroy/OK.
Lehman/Now let's go to the Englert.
Englert Theater Acquisition (Item #7- CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
ACQUISITION OF THE ENGLERT THEATER, AN AGREEMENT
BETWEEN POHL FAMILY PROPERTIES LLC AND THE CITY OF IOWA
CITY, AND AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE IOWA CITY JAZZ
FESTIVAL - ENGLERT THEATER FUND AND THE CITY OF IOWA CITY.
Franklin/You have in your packets a resolution and two letters of agreement. We have a
signed agreement between Pohl Family Properties and the City, basically what
this packet of stuff does it says that the City would agree to purchase the Englert
Theater from Mr. Pohl for the amount of money, well essentially from Mr. Pohl
and from Engvar Theaters which is a subsidiary of Central States that the city
would pay to Mr. Pohl certain incidental expenses that have to do with the real
estate commission, the appraisal, the inspection, earnest money and that the City
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would also pay then to Engvar Theaters the remaining money approximately
$717,000 to actually purchase the Englert Theater. We would be stepping into the
shoes of Mr. Pohl and his purchase agreement with Engvar Theaters. There's also
a stipulation in this agreement with the Pohl Family Properties that if the coalition
or a non profit agency does not within a nine month period come forward to
purchase this property from the city that the city will sell it back to Mr. Pohl and
Mr. Pohl will purchase it for roughly the amount that we pay for it. What is not
included in that purchase price and what he would not pay us is the interest for
carrying this over the period of deliberation that we're going through right now. I
think that' s the highlights of that agreement. The agreement with the coalition
and the Iowa City Jazz Festival is the entity that the coalition has used in order to
receive tax deductible contributions. The Jazz Festival as an incorporated not for
profit has set up a fund that if people wish to contribute to the Englert fund they
can do so and do the charitable deduction on their income taxes because there is
not an entity at this point in time that is legally formed that is the Englert Theater
Coalition but that is something that is being worked on. In that agreement with
that coalition which is not signed at this point it is agreed that the city will pay up
to $700,000 to acquire the Englert Theater. That the coalition through it's body in
the Jazz Festival will pay the difference between the $700,000 and what it cost to
actually purchase the theater, this includes the incidental expenses, because the
price, the actual price of the theater is $725,000 and then we have these other
expenses that are enumerated in the agreement with the Pohl Family Properties.
The coalition would be obligated up to $66,000 and that was kind of the max. that
we could figure not knowing exactly what the interest would be in the period of
time that we're talking about not knowing exactly when we would close. That the
coalition would have the option to purchase the Englert within a nine month
period for $500,000, that reflects the $200,000 that have been expressed by some
Council members as the amount of money that the city would contribute in terms
of cold hard cash to this. The city would absorb all costs for insurance, utilities,
maintenance and taxes to other jurisdictions during this nine month period. It
appears that the issues that are out there right now have to do with disparity
between what the coalition has said was their understanding of what the city
would be able to contribute and the $650,000 and the $200,000 which is what the
Council has expressed as the amount that you felt was reasonable at this point in
time. So I guess what would you like to do now Mr. Mayor?
Lehman/Council.
Champion/Well of course as everybody knows I totally support this project so I'm not
going to go on and on about that but I would hope that we would vote to go
forward with this particular proposal of the $200,000 now and encourage the
Englert Theater group to go about raising money to purchase the Theater from us.
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I would hope that the Council would not shut them out totally though at that point
if they weren't able to happen to raise that money. But like any group that might
come to us for matching funds that we might be willing eventually to talk to them
about support money to get this place going and off the ground. As I think about
all the things that we've invested money in since I've been on the City Council
which has not been that long I'm sure everybody's glad about that. But when I
think about the money we've put into trails, and I think about the money we've
put into parks, of the money we're going to put in lights for softball fields and
soccer fields and all the things we put money into that cost a whole lot more than
this coalition is asking us for. And I view this theater as another form of
recreation for a different group of people than who uses Scanlon Gynmasium,
who use the trails who might not ever use those facilities, but I donated money to
the ScanIon Gymnasium, I totally support it, I simply have never even been in it
except for the dedication. And I just really feel that this is a positive thing for the
community and I hope we're all going to look at it as a very positive thing and
helping to provide recreational activities for another phase, another part of our
community that we have using our parks and recreation.
Lehman/What level of financial support do you (can't hear)?
Champion/Well I'm not committing us to anything yet at this point. I'm saying we
should commit ourselves, this $200,000 now and see if the coalition could raise
the money to actually purchase the theater which would be a half million. And
then I think we need to rethink and possibly help money that would help them get
lights, curtains, get the partition down so they could start actually using it and
moving forward, I don't thing they can possibly do that on their own.
Pfab/OK I have a question and that is it doesn't say anything what's on the deed here, is
there a deed restriction, it's very carefully nonchalant.
Dilkes/The purchase in your packet of material which includes that agreement that has
been revised just in a minor way but the one in your packet has the purchase
agreement between Engvar and Pohl Properties attached.
Kanner/Well there's an addendum to that, your saying we got tonight?
Lehman/No it's in the packet.
Franklin/No that copy of the purchase agreement that I gave you.
Kanner/Oh I just thought maybe Irvin saw something else tonight.
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Dilkes/We made some minor changes to the, there was a $400.00 discrepancy in the
figure in the last paragraph and some wording changes to that last paragraph
which you got handed out tonight.
Kanner/Oh OK, I haven't seen it.
Pfab/Just to speak directly to Connie here, I believe that the city if they go to $200,000
and carry it at that point I believe we should say that's we've got other things to
take care of. This is a great want for the city, the city has a lot of other needs that
we really need to address and my guess is that the people who will probably get
the most benefit out of the building are in a lot better position to make those kind
of investments than they are, than are other people who have other needs.
Champion/That's a very narrow view of "culture".
Pfab/No, no, no, just I don't mean it that way, no, if it doesn't, I sat here and listened to a
very interesting rosy scenario and I would like to get a transcription of that if you
would from Tom Gelman that he made here, I would appreciate that. And if it's
that good then we should, if it's that, if it's that going to work that good then we'll
I think the $200,000 and I'm even reluctant to put that in at this point because of
other things that I'm learning. Hearing from people that the stages are very
difficult to work with. Some people say it's great, some people say it's so narrow
you can't get a piano on the stage if we want to so you know it's got some really
built in problems to it. And it's supposedly a not a place for live drama.
Franklin/Just so there isn't any misinformation floating around, the stage is quite
adequate for small productions and in fact, even, the evaluation that was done
back last Spring was for the center space project as the center space project was
envisioned by that group. And they had certain requirements that they felt needed
to be met for their project to go forward as that whole thing was conceived. This
theater did not meet those requirements. However, this theater and having gone
through it on Friday has a lot of potential in terms of both concerts and small
productions, even though it does not have extensive wing space there is a corridor
which goes to the dressing rooms downstairs that could certainly serve as a
staging area. It has much better staging area than some of the small theater
venues that we have that are used quite successfully now so just, so that's clear
there's plenty of room for a piano.
Pfab/Well I was just taking information that was passed on to me.
Franklin/Yea I understand.
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Champion/And the other thing too I think you have to look at and I'm tired of people
whining about the Coral Ridge Mall and we're probably not going to pull the
department stores downtown again or get hardware stores or paint stores and we
need to think about the future of Iowa City, I'm not talking about next year, I'm
talking about 10-15 years down the road about what Iowa City is going to be
about and you know what we have to do our direction and we're in such a great
position because towns that have totally died are doing.
(End of Tape 00-14 Side 2)
Champion/Opportunity, it's too bad it's all kind of coming in so quickly but it is a
golden opportunity and I think we're foolish not to pursue it.
Pfab/My point is we have built the infrastructure and just millions and millions of dollars
to revitalize the downtown area. At some point in time we have to say enough.
Champion/Well we haven't had anything for 20 years, I guess it was time. I suppose if
we divide it by 20 years it's not a lot of money.
Vanderhoef/Well Connie I support your enthusiasm and I think your fight on with what
it could offer downtown. I can support this up to a certain level but I can't go if
the group is really looking at $650,000 1 can't go that far knowing what I know
about the budget fight now.
Champion/And I'm not obligating us, to think about it fight now.
Vanderhoef/No, no, and that's fine but I want to put it out there that I think that's far too
high for what we have to serve within our budget right now. However I could go
up to the $200,000 so selling it back to the group for the $500,000 is where I
would go forward with this.
Wilburn/Emie.
Lehman/Ross
Wilburn/When you came to us originally at that meeting we sat down with the budget
and we talked about $200,000, in other words having them fund raise up to
$500,000 what message was communicated to the coalition? Was that figure you
came up with that there's the coalition?
Lehman/Well let me tell you where the number came up from.
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Wilburn/The reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to separate what I read in the press
and what actually transpired here (can't hear) and the coalition came and spoke
with us because when I walked in here that night this move, from hearing you,
this move, an initial conversation, this moved from a loan to a loan plus $200,000
to $650,000 all in about three weeks time.
Lehman/Well my perception is you remember we were approached first I believe in
November with the concept that this was a possibility that this building could be
purchased and we were asked if we would participate. And if I remember
correctly and I think the record will probably show that we told the group of folks
that if they could show a significant interest on the part of the community both
enthusiasm and financial, the Council probably would listen to them. And we
would, as we listened to the people with soccer fields and with the gynmasium
and whatever, I think we indicate that we would have some interest in talking to
those folks if there was a substantial financial commitment from the community.
The next, the next discussion occurred was when Mr. Pohl offered to sell it to the
city for $250,000 less than he originally was going to sell to those to the coalition
for. And to be real honest with you, although the numbers were never thrown
around. I think there was some vision on the part of some folks although I
certainly am not (can't hear) that when the price was $1,000,000 that I'm sure
there were folks who felt that if they could raise half of that that the city would at
least visit with them about the other half, that's a half a million dollars. I'm not
assuming for a minute that the city would have put up a half million dollars. But
the $200,000 came when we when it became apparent that the city could buy it for
$250,000 less than the coalition could because it was the city. You take that
$250,000, you take the opportunity costs associated with the city holding that
property for 6 months, now it's 9 months which is approximately $50,000, and
that's what it would cost the city to do this. You put $200,000 with that and that's
a half a million dollars, I mean that's half of the amount of money that was
originally we were told, now that's just the building, has nothing to do with the
improvements on the building. But that's where that $200,000 came from I mean
it was just a number I threw out.
Wilbung OK that so you.
Lehman/That was my rationale was the 200, I mean there's, and that's how rationale that
is but that's where the number came from, that' s what we're talking about tonight.
Wilburn/And I'm sorry let me, I'm just trying to follow along here, and was that a figure
that you had indicated to the coalition or is that just something you shared with us
at Council?
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Lehman/That's one that just came up that night, yea, I look at the total purchase price as
we were told in November. And that would.
Wilburn/But between, between, when you talked with us and we got the letter saying
$650,000, had you communicated that to the coalition that this was or Karin that
this was kind of what you were thinking it was?
Atkins/Ernie.
Lehman/I don't know that. What?
Atkins/Ross I think maybe I can help out, I wrote a memo, a summary memo to Council
on the 11 th.
Wilburn/OK.
Atkins/And a question that I raised in the memo to you all was how and who should
cover the total cost needs to be, needs to be clearly understood by all parties, will
the city share growth from short term to permanent long term capital if the
citizens group raises 50 percent or $600,000 the remaining responsibility would
fall to the city for permanent financing. Early in the memo I mentioned that the
cost of renovation was let's say $500,000, thereby the total capital cost is more
like $1.2 million dollars (can't hear).
Wilburn/OK I remember that memo.
Atkins/I think maybe that' s how that number got to be kicked around.
Wilbum/OK all fight. Go ahead Steven.
Kanner/I share also the enthusiasm of this project but what I was thinking about
originally was somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 to $100,000 maybe
$50,000 for the city's share. I would be open to the idea of a loan perhaps that
could be paid back over 10 or 20 years for a greater amount maybe in the
$200,000 range but I think one thing we have to do as Council is that if we're
going to give any capital money or this opportunity cost we have to take
something else out of the budget and I think we have to look at what we'll do
when we vote on this, what we're going to take out and put it all into the formula.
There are a couple other concerns about this and even though it doesn't have an
immediate doesn't come down immediately on our vote. I think we need to look
at the total cost and I have a question for you Kafin regarding total cost. If the
balcony were to be used as part of this theater would an elevator be required?
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Franklin/It's like.
Champion/But that first floor is going to be handicap accessible.
Franklin/Yea, I don't know Steven, I don't know.
Kanner/That's a major cost there that I don't know ifit's been figured in. Also would a
sprinkler system be required for this?
Franklin/Yea.
Kanner/And I don't know if that's been figured in in the renovation costs perhaps it has,
the $500,000. What?
Franklin/What is I don't know and the coalition folks may be able to speak to this in
terms of what is included in the $500,000.
Atkins/Please understand that in my memo I simply picked up $500,000 renovation
costs could be substantially more or it could be substantially less Steve so I want
you to understand that's a number I just gave you all a total project cost number, I
said how about half a million dollars for renovation, it could be more.
Kanner/And I took a tour of the place today and there' s been talk that there's possibly
asbestos coveting some of the pipes and they thought maybe it was, do you know,
does anyone know if that is asbestos?
Franklin/I don't know that it is, asbestos is not an issue unless you remove it.
Lehman/Right.
Champion/Right.
Franklin/I can't tell if that was asbestos that's around those pipes or not but.
Kanner/I have a feeling that might be a major issue because I think in that area especially
in the basement it's probably going to have to be renovation down to the plywood
and there would be major disturbances of.
Franklin/I don't know, I mean the boiler is relatively new and it's in good shape and so
I'm not sure what you would be, the biggest issue would, when I went through
with the inspectors was to ensure that there was adequate fire wall between the
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main auditorium and whatever other use that was there such as if there were
continuing to be offices and it was trying to establish exactly what was the barren
wall and where there were breaks in it which may require in some of the places
that you have fire doors put in. But I, you know all of those details as to the
building and what the costs are of renovation I mean those are things that we, we
have not gotten into as a city since our effort here has been to potentially acquire
the property and then turn it over to someone else, whether it is the coalition or
whether it is Mr. Pohl again but at the end of that 9 months to no longer have that
building as a city property. So I've been concerned about what is it going to take
in that 9 month period.
Kanner/I understand that. In the deed the sale deed, paragraph 5 talks about what stays
or what goes, is it assumed that the marquis stays with the theater?
Franklin/Yes.
Lehman/Yes.
Franklin/Yes, the one thing I'm not sure about is the letters but I certainly would like to
get them. We don't, the concession stand would not stay and the projection
equipment would not stay.
Kanner/Today I was in there on the stage and it was leaking quite a bit from the roof and
do we have any thoughts on the shape of the roof?.
Franklin/I have a copy of the inspection that was done, the roof what is recommended is
that there be a replacement plan put in place that within a relatively short period
of time and I don't know what that means without talking to the inspector that did
this that that be replaced. Now presumably that would not be within the nine
months that we would have it if we were to buy it.
Kanner/It might need it sooner than that at the rate of the leaking, looks heavy.
Franklin/I don't know when I was there the other day it wasn't, Friday, it wasn't leaking
but it must have been the snow melt. Yea.
Kanner/Snow melting. One final thing, the biggest obstacle for me is the no movie
clause and we've been told that perhaps that could be renegotiated, I think that
would be.
Champion/But we don't know that for sure.
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Kanner/We don't know that for sure but that would be a big hurdle for me if we, before
we approve that if we were able to get that renegotiated to something that' s more
fallible to us as far as being able to show older movies.
Franklin/On that point I think it is unrealistic to expect to renegotiate that until the final
ownership of this property is known.
Lehman/I think that' s fight.
Franklin/If it is to go back to Mr. Pohl I'm not or any private individual as opposed to
the city or not for profit, I doubt very much that Engvar Theaters and
understandably would not want to remove that restriction. I guess the other point
I'd like to make is that you need to make a decision tomorrow, you need to vote
this up or down, because every day there's interest being paid on this and you
know there just comes a time where you just got to say aye or nay.
O'Donnell/See that's been one of my problems all along, this thing has gone on very
quickly and it's a lot of money and none of us have seen a business plan a viable,
workable business plan so it is a lot of money to invest. I was not prepared to go
to $200,000 and $650,000 after we sat through the budgets we, I think we all
know we'll have to cut something somewhere and I think this would be a
wonderful thing to have the coalition to accomplish. And I think it would be a
great thing to cap off a vibrant growing economically sound downtown, there are
some vacant buildings downtown fight now, I'd like to see them, I'd like to see
them full of retail entities but this to me is something that would cap off, cap off
the downtown. I believe, the downtown will recycle fight, I think we're all
positive of that but. And Conhie I appreciate your comment on the trails and the
Scanlon Gym and everything like that and Steve your concerned about not being
able to show movies is my concem. And the only thing I can say about the
Scanlon Gym or the trails it doesn't cost money to go there and it will the theater
because I would have a very different time supporting this.
Wilburn/Conhie all the letters and e-mail's that I've received, I don't do a scale type
thing but I look in terms of the arguments that people make aye or nay and for
example some people make an argument that the city shouldn't be looking into
this, shouldn't be purchasing going, whatever. I don't buy into that argument
because like I said at a work session before I think it's appropriate for a public
entity to help a group leverage funds for something for greater good. That's
something that I agree with. Some of the other arguments that I look at that I
think relate to us some of the things that have been said about the amounts of
money that have been invested in downtown and something that' s on our capital
improvements project fight now finishing the Iowa Avenue project. Some of the
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arguments relate to the amount of money spent downtown versus elsewhere in the
community. That paired with several of the other groups that were lined up
asking for money the other night, how do I, how do I respond to that?
Champion/Well if the Englert weren't downtown I'd still vote for it. It's just where it's at
and if there was anything I could do to help the Sycamore Mall I would I mean if
somebody came to me with a plan for the Sycamore Mall and wanted anything I
could do for them, like a tax abatement or what do you call those TIF funds
whatever that stuff is I wouldn't even hesitate to do that. And I view this as part
of an economic development also. I'm, if, just that the opportunity is there and it
happens to be downtown. It's the only old theater left.
Lehman/Well you know I think there is an opportunity here that I don't know is quite the
same as spending money on trails or buildings or parks or whatever because this
is.
Champion/It's not the same.
Lehman/At one time a couple years ago there was a petition signed by hundreds of
people to for the Save the buy the Englert, we looked at the building at that time
and at whatever. But there has been an interest in this community for a long long
time to see that building preserved I mean it does have some historic significance,
obviously from, we've all gotten e-mail's, we've all gotten letters, we've all gotten
phone calls from a lot of people who would really like to see that building
preserved to be restored and to be kind of a jewel in the community's crown. I
think it's a very very worthwhile project, I certainly support that project. I think
the question I think is how much do we support that project. Now the city being
involved in it to the extent that we expend $200,000 and the additional $50,000
for opportunity costs is worth about a half a million dollars to the folks to the total
purchase price of the building, I think that's very significant. The fact that Mr.
Pohl has agreed to buy the building back if the group is unsuccessful in raising the
money reduces the risk that the city has to the opportunity cost which is $50,000, I
would be very very willing and happy to take that risk. The big question is and I
think that the bottom line is can the group be successful in raising the amount of
money it will take to buy the building and to renovate the building so that it can
operate, start taking money, it doesn't do a bit of good to buy the building and pay
for it if you can't unlock the doors and bring people in and there is a renovation
cost. And I don't know that, and I'm prepared at this point in time to say that the
city, I would not want to buy the city into saying we will guarantee we will give
you X amount of dollars more. I will, I mean I feel it's a worth while project and
I certainly would be, I would support the $200,000 and the opportunity costs
which in essence is worth about a halfa million dollars on the project.
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Wilburn/If the group has said $650,000 from the city is what it will take then.
Lehman/If that's what it has to have happen then I don't think it can work.
Wilburn/OK.
Lehman/And I don't know that.
Wilburn/And another question I suppose if the Council goes with this then without
finishing with the rest of the budget if we go with this tomorrow then we're
making a significant commitment to slashing some of those capital improvement
projects.
Champion/Well man (can't hear).
Wilburn/And it's already been pointed out that we haven't, the library hasn't even you
know in terms of our self imposed debt margin long, if that passes then where do
we go then?
Lehman/Well we're not even going to come close to the self imposed deadline, that thing
is way out and thank goodness it is.
Kanner/No but the library is over.
Lehman/No well the amount of money that it takes to replace it.
Wilburn/Well but that's a policy decision though.
Lehman/Yes, yes.
Wilburn/That' s a policy decision, we haven't discussed that.
Lehman/That's correct.
Wilburn/And so.
Lehman/That's correct. But I think we all have looked at least preliminarily at the capital
improvement projects for the next three years. This would be a capital investment
of $200,000.
Pfab/Plus the other.
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Lehman/Well plus, plus, probably $250.
Pfab/Yea.
Lehman/And I don't think that all things being equal if we feel this is a worthwhile
project I can't imagine that we can't find somehow to come up with that money
out of the capital improvements budget.
Vanderhoef/You know Ernie since I've been on Council I haven't had as many phone
calls about something that would enhance the community as I have had on this. I
have had people call who are on fixed incomes that are so committed to this
project that even they can not give a lot they plan to give. I truly believe that this
community is going to come around and raise the money.
O'Donnell/I've had calls the other way Dee, I've had calls from seniors on fixed incomes
that are concerned about the water rate increase coming and a proposed or spoke
of 3 ½ percent property tax increase and their concerned about spending money.
Lehman/Well guys.
O'Donnell/When we really don't have it, so there is a mix out there and I've had many
calls too.
Vanderhoef/But these are people who are talking about donating because they feel so
strongly for the project.
O'Donnell/Oh and I understand that.
Vanderhoef/That's a real interest to me to get those calls that they are so committed that
they want this project.
Champion/And we haven't obligated ourselves at all to a 3.255 property tax increase.
O'Donnell/No we have not but it's been in the paper for (can't hear).
Champion/Well a lot of things have been in the paper are (can't hear).
Pfab/Just to wrap up what we might want to do is this. When I looked at this thing I
looked at the $200,000, and I said that's you know really stretching it, afterwards
I really had some second thoughts because of some other things. Then it was able
to save the other people that, but now they have their, non profit entity in place, I
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don't know how much has been raised but when I looked at for a size of this
project and the enthusiasm and I looked at the numbers that were raised I was a
little concerned and so I'm saying and my point fight from the beginning was
how, if we get it, how do we get out. And if Pohl buys it they can't raise it then
that's fine, I'll go that far but I really have great difficulty going any further and
that's not saying it isn't a wonderful ideal project but I sat here and heard listened
to these people and I asked Madan she transcfibed that, I think that would be a
very interesting thing and if with that kind of enthusiasm I'll go. And my point
was go six months I said well I'll give them 50 percent longer to raise the money
then that, and went 9 months but at that point I want to have the name of the
auctioneer.
Lehman/Well in this case we don't have to worry about an auctioneer because we do
have a. All fight we'll have, we'll have until tomorrow evening, it is on the
agenda and we are going to have to make a decision so in the meantime talk to
your friends and neighbors. Peninsula.
Champion/Find out about the letters.
Kanner/I don't know understand why we can't try to negotiate that no movie clause.
Lehman/Well it's pretty simple because if they give that to us and we sell it back to a
private entity that is in the deed.
Kanner/No but we can say that it would be on condition of not selling it to a private
entity. We can put those clauses in there, I bet it's going to be quite expensive, I
can imagine them asking half a million to take that out.
O'Donnell/At least.
Lehman/Won't that out?
O'Donnell/You know in the Iowa Theater in Coralville 4 Theaters in Coralville the
clause is in there, and it is not (can't hear).
Lehman/Well this is the same thing here it's in the deed unless it's negotiated it'll never
come out of the deed. I'm not so sure it can be negotiated but we're also from the
241h on if I'm not mistaken there's interest accruing on the money, so I mean it's
a time, it's a matter of.
Kanner/18 percent.
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Lehman/And I don't think there's going to be anymore discussion on that until after the
purchase is made and then probably (can't hear).
Franklin/I've been assured that we'll get the letters.
Lehman/What letters?
Franklin/The golden Marquis.
Lehman/Oh all right.
Peninsula Project
Franklin/OK the peninsula very quickly, for those of you who have not been on Council
do you all have this?
Pfab/I don't.
Franklin/You don't OK.
Pfab/I'm aware of it but I never saw it.
Franklin/You need to read that and absorb it.
(All talking)
Franklin/Put in on your pillow.
(All talking).
Franklin/OK just to kind of roughly go back over this real quickly we went, we started
this is 98 when we did a charette about what it is that the community as a group
wanted to see on the Peninsula. The RFP went out in November of 98 and we got
one response in May of 99. After looking at that and going over it with the
developer we decided that it would be prudent to go back out and see if we could
get any other proposals for comparative purposes if for nothing else. We've
received, well we have three entities now including the developer that we were
originally working with. We have three entities who will be giving their
presentations on March 1, those are here in the council chambers at 6:30. and
before then I'm assuming that the Council members will that some Council
members will come to that presentation.
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Vanderhoef/Do we have to limit that or will it be posted?
Lehman/That's one that we all should be at, March 1st at 6:30.
Franklin/Yea I think you should be, we'll just, we'll post an agenda and I'll talk with
Marian on how to deal with that.
Kanner/That will be here?
Franklin/Yes in the council chambers.
Lehman/At 6:30.
Franklin/And recall that when we decided to have this public presentation the way we
are going to handle it is that the public could write comments or questions that
would be input to the selection panel. There's not going to be the debate between
the public and developer and the developer's aren't going to get grilled. They are
making a presentation, people have the opportunity to see that to make some
judgments to provide some comments, those will go to the selection panel. The
selection panel as I noted in the memorandum to you in January is myself, the
Assistant Director Jeff Davidson, Bob Miklo the Senior Planner, Steve Nasby the
Community Development Coordinator and two members of the planning, a
member of the Planning & Zoning Commission and a member of the Housing and
Community Development Commission, Lea Supple from Planning & Zoning and
Gretchen Schmuck from Housing and Community Development. And we will
have private interviews with each of the developers also to really get through
some of the nitty gritty of the proposals and then make a recommendation to the
Council. Obviously the Council's always the one that is going to be the final
selecting body. What we're going to be looking for with these development
teams and they are teams because they all have groups that are involved is
whether the team understands and embraces the concept because we want to be
working with somebody who believes in the concept that is portrayed in this
Peninsula plan because what we're trying to do with this project is to provide a
model of how you can do development a little bit differently in Iowa City. And
have taken the opportunity of having this publicly owned land to engage
somebody to carry out that vision and so it's important that the team that is
selected embraces the concept that is in that booklet that I just gave to Irvin. A
couple of characteristics of that are going to be having this diversity of housing,
that is different housing types within a block. I mean typically what we see is
we've got multifamily, then we've got some duplexes or zero lot lines and then
we have single family. The idea here is that you mix that up in a block much like
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you see in some of the older neighborhoods, Marcy and Summit Street, that at
Summit and Kirkwood and Marcy that area where we've got condominiums,
apartment buildings, single family, duplex, all right together. Same way at Scott
Boulevard and Court Street that newer area where you've got a mix of
multifamily, single family together. And that you can do that by designing
buildings that are going to fit together and this ought to be architecture that looks
like Iowa City, not like Phoenix, not like Florida but here because that' s where we
are. Secondly their ability to carry out the project, a project of this size and this
complexity that they have the financial resources to stay with it because this is
going to be a phase project and this is a team that we can work with. And all of
the proposals, the financial arrangement is such that there would not be an
immediate pay down of the 1.3 million for the land but that this would be phased
over time as the development occurs. That means the city is a partner in this for
the long haul of seeing this development built out and so this has got to be some
folks that we can work with. So I just wanted to kind of try to get everybody on
kind of the same page to let you know where we were coming from so that if
that's different from where your coming from you let me know real quick.
Champion/Karin, Is the public going to be invited to this?
Franklin/Yes.
Lehman/Yes.
Champion/Is this going to be big enough?
Lehman/Probably.
Franklin/I don't know Connie.
Champion/I, you know this doesn't seat a lot of people.
Lehman/(can't hear).
Pfab/If we publicize it fight I think that you may be very close to fight Connie.
Champion/Well we had at least that many people at the Library.
Pfab/That is this is such a terrific idea.
Vanderhoef/But we also have the lobby with the TV.
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Champion/That's not enough.
Lehman/TV won't be televised probably.
Franklin/You know the only other option I can think of is meeting room A at the library.
Champion/I know it I.
Kanner/Or the Rec. Center, the big room in the rec. center.
Atkins/Social hall Karin.
Franklin/Oh.
Champion/I mean you might, I just wonder if this room, and you have a 100 people in
this room it's not going to be very comfortable.
Lehman/Sometimes it's not very comfortable with (can't hear).
(All laughing)
Franklin/7.
Champion/It's cozy, I mean just think about it.
Lehman/That would be a good idea if we could move it out, that's a good idea.
Pfab/I think that's a great idea.
Franklin/OK.
Lehman/Just in case it's worth. All right. Karin this is exactly the way we envisioned
the process to work if I'm not mistaken.
Champion/Yea your fight.
Franklin/As far as I know yea.
Lehman/This is outline, I mean this is (can't hear).
Franklin/I hope so, that's why I wanted to kind of check in, it's been a while.
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Lehman/Well I mean as I remember, go ahead.
Pfab/I think it's.
Vanderhoef/There was one thing that just struck me right now is that we're in this on the
long haul, I thought our pay back of our 1.3 was going to be a lot sooner.
Lehman/We said (can't hear).
Franklin/Well that's that's one thing that we'll need to talk about but all of the proposals
at this point are for phased pay out.
Lehman/We said that up front that we'd phase it.
Franklin/We said that we would consider phasing.
Champion/Yea they already (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/It keeps appearing in the budget as all coming all at once.
Franklin/Yes I know, I know, that makes me a little nervous too.
Atkins/That's me.
Lehman/We (can't hear) everything.
Atkins/Holding your feet to the bar, you promised.
Lehman/But we (can't hear).
Franklin/I checked with him.
Kanner/So maybe we have to look at that Steve that and we have to rewrite the (can't
hear).
Atkins/I think what Karin's told me that it's likely were going to have to distribute that
over a number of years, it doesn't affect our reserve position and you're right the
budget balancing we'll have to go back and do that. We were suppose to, we
were going to take care of this back in 99 (can't hear).
Lehman/That's not a lot unlike capital improvement projects that don't get done in one
year and they carry into the next. I mean that happens all the time (can't hear).
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Atkins/Maybe this is the most important thing because this came directly from our
general fund reserve to buy our property and there was a commitment to repay
that general fund and we do carry it as part of our reserve.
Champion/And it is.
Atkins/Well it's a non cash, it's shown as cash it's just (can't hear).
(All talking).
Franklin/Steven.
Kanner/Karin do you remember this?
Vanderhoef/Well that's true.
Lehman/Go ahead Steven.
Kanner/There was discussion about the mix of housing types I think about inclusion of
lower income availability, is that still part of this?
Franklin/One of the principles there is for the developers to make a proposal is to how,
one how they can keep some affordability in the mix of housing because a lot of
these types of projects around the country because this is not, this is not brand
new something we thought of just you know in Iowa City. But some of these
types of projects around the country tend to get expensive, very expensive over
time because they are such desirable places to live. And so one of the challenges
that was put out was to over ways to retain affordability or provide for some
affordable housing within the development. Now that can mean a couple of
things, that can mean that you have owner occupied dwelling units that are at the
lower end of the housing market as opposed to being all at the upper end which is
what you might have if it were wide open because this is such a gorgeous piece of
land it's conceivable that a developer could buy it and put in $700 to million
dollar houses and sell them here but that was not what the vision was so there's a
mix but I don't think that we will see in this development a lot of subsidized
housing.
Kanner/That's what I was going to ask, so you don't plan to bring into the mix of all the
different funding streams we have to help subsidize some housing, CDBG or
home loans or anything like that?
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Franklin/One, the Greater Iowa City Housing Fellowship has been very interested in this
project and has made contact with the respective developers. How they work out
something will be something we'll see in their proposals.
Kanner/I think it might be worthwhile maybe for Council in the future to talk if we
wanted to have this be pan of the mix perhaps.
Lehman/Well we did talk about it.
O'Donnell/It is in there.
Pfab/It's in there.
Vanderhoef/Yea.
Lehman/We did talk about it, we didn't talk about subsidized housing, it was not a high
issue but it was a very, well I think we talked about and we didn't accept it but we
did say we want a spectrum of housing.
Kanner/I realize that I'm just saying that maybe we can revisit it to see if there is interest
to have it some contribution from the city into the housing to keep it lower priced.
Lehman/Well I think, I don't know where we are in this project but we've gotten three
proposals based on the information that we gave them. And I'm not so sure that
we're about to be changing the rules on after we've gotten the proposals. After
we settle with the developer there may be room to do something.
Franklin/Yea and part of, in terms of understanding the process, once a developer is
selected, that's the preferred developer, then we work with that individual
developer to come to a development agreement which is where your getting fight
down to the nitty gritty. Now I don't think it is fair at that point to change things
remarkably.
Lehman/Right.
Franklin/Because you know people invest a lot of money in putting together these
proposals and going through this whole process so I don't think you want to make
any seat changes at that point in time. But affordability as an issue has been in
there but I don't think we have ever required that subsidized housing be part of
this project and I think it's important to stay focused on what we're trying to
accomplish with this project which is to serve as a model for how you can do
development differently, get a greater diversity of housing and have a greater
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range of costs in housing, not necessarily meet all types of housing needs in this
one development and that may not be in agreement with what your proposing
Steven but that's kind of where we've been so far.
Kanne~ I understand.
Pfab/I would like to say also and when you put people with various levels of income or
ability to pay that some of those things might be restricted deed wise down the
road, that might be something.
Franklin/This is what we are we asked the developers to come back with in terms of
proposals, some of them are more detailed than others. OK. Thanks.
Champion/Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
CVB Appt.
Lehman/Convention and Visitors Bureau we need to make an appointment from among
our numbers.
Champion/Well let's not do that.
Vanderhoef/Did you talk to Wendy?
Lehman/I talked to, no I called, I missed her, she called back, I missed her, we're
suppose to get together for lunch on this, no I have not, I'll try to talk to her
before tomorrow.
Champion/Who are we going to do? Are we going to appoint you or Irvin?
Lehman/Well Mike was going to do it but he can't and I don't know if their meetings are
going to stay the same, they were talking about it, I talked to one of the gals out
there and she was, and I'm not sure it always conflicts with JCICOG but I'm not
sure it doesn't either.
O'Donnell/Late afternoon is a terrible time.
Lehman/I'll call her, I'll try to get a hold of Wendy again tomorrow and maybe I'll have
some information tomorrow night and we can do this at the end of the meeting.
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Council Time
Lehman/All fight Council time.
Champion/I'm too tired.
Lehman/Who's first? I've got a couple things but go ahead. Irvin.
Pfab/I don't believe I have anything right now.
Vanderhoef/I have one thing. The Legislative Committee met on Friday afternoon and
we're recognizing a concem for us in that because of the open meeting law, this
one was all posted and everything so, and there will be minutes coming out but
the problem arises that we as a committee of three if any two people visit with
each other about a legislative thing we have "had a meeting" therefore we can't
even talk about these things. I checked with Eleanor this morning and she said
there isn't anything in the statutory law that says we have to have this committee
but I'm not sure what was the report from?
Dilkes/Yea Marian checked and there' s nothing that the city has done that requires the
creation of the committee.
Vanderhoef/OK so this is something that previous Council's obviously have put together
and made it an official appointed committee which brings the committee into the
open meetings law whereas the real question I guess I have for all of you is the
purpose of the committee. Is the purpose of the committee to keep people
updated on what is being proposed at the state and national level from the Leagues
of Cities or is the purpose of this committee to design and be proactive in
promoting legislation that this Council wants to move forward.
Chan~pion/It would be both.
Vanderhoef/Pardon me.
Champion/I would think it would be both.
Vanderhoef/Well it could be I'm asking, when I went into the meeting I felt that the
purpose was more to update folks so that we could follow along and keep Council
appraised of what is happening. In previous years I have asked at Council if you
have anything that you would like proposed at the state level please drop me a line
or give me a call whatever, likewise when I go to the National I have done the
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same thing is there anything that's on your mind, I'll be attending these meetings
whatever. So I guess we need to have a conversation even if we put it on the
agenda for another time to find out exactly what the purpose you see of this
committee and whether you want it as an ad hoc committee and not an official
appointment committee.
Pfab/The reason that I support what Dee is saying, it's a lot more restrictive to us, we
can't do anything as individuals. If we belong to the committee we're dead.
Vanderhoef/Right.
Pfab/So we had a motion to dissolve the committee.
Vanderhoef/Right.
Pfab/And it died for lack of a second we wanted to give it some airing.
Vanderhoef/Well we knew we had to bring it back to all you folks anyway and we
didn't know the legality of how this committee originally was formed so I guess
my recommendation would be that we dissolve the committee as an official
committee so that then when the League of Women Voter's has their meetings on
Saturday mornings.
Champion/Great.
Vanderhoef/It would be like three people from Council could go, the legislative one at
the chamber three people could go and we wouldn't have to post it and go through
all of this business and then never be able to talk to my friends and neighbors
here.
Champion/Oh no, that's incredible.
Lehman/Well I think we've always envisioned at least the time I've been on Council I
always thought the legislative committee attended the meetings and all three
members attended, I never realized it was a public meeting. I guess it probably
was but I mean.
Dilkes/Well it's my understanding it was in years past treated as one and then sort of
things got more lax.
Lehman/I think it's important that our Council people have an opportunity to interact
with the state legislatures and obviously that's not to take Council positions to
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that group unless the Council agrees to those positions but certainly to keep
informed as to what goes on and is going on and I would hope we would hope we
would have 3 people there.
Dilkes/It appears to me, it appears to me that the main function of the committee at least
as I understand it is not to be an advisory body to the Council with respect to
legislative issues. Although that may be something you do occasionally so it does
seem to me for open meeting purposes to make some sense to do as Dee as
suggested.
Lehman/All fight.
Pfab/It got so bad we had to finally draw a cast lots.
Lehman/Well we're talking, we'll talk about this again but obviously we're going to
make some changes.
Vanderhoef/Yea and if we could have it on the agenda two weeks from now to dissolve
it.
Lehman/We can do that.
Vanderhoef/We can always defer it if we haven't had a chance to talk about it or
whatever but I would like to see it on the agenda two weeks from tomorrow.
Lehman/All fight Steve.
Kanne~ Are we going to talk about minutes from boards and commissions sometime in
the future?
Lehman/Yea I suppose we.
Kanner/We kind of left it up in the air and I had a suggestion I don't know, probably now
is not the time but I think we need to be a little more proactive in that, in directing
the boards and commissions and maybe we can talk about that a little bit more.
Lehman/We probably should get a reaction from, and I think Steve you mentioned
somebody mentioned that the boards and commissions frequently like to approve
their minutes before we get them. Now maybe.
Karr/I did.
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Dilkes/There was a memo that went out to you from Marian about that because that issue
had been visited fairly recently I think and then Madan sent the memo out to you.
Kanner/I don't think that resolved it in my mind but my suggestion would be that
perhaps something like within three days it's typed up, it's sent to the board
members, they can give suggested corrections which would be attached, we get
the draft with the suggestions and then they approve.
Champion/I don't think.
Lehman/I think that's getting a little bit.
Kanner/No I think that's very easy but I think we need to get something sooner, we're
getting again December 3rd, to me that's not appropriate to have to make
decisions when we're getting commission minutes that late. I think there's a way
that we can make it work and I think we need to be assertive in doing that.
Lehman/I wonder if it wouldn't be best to say that we have a period of time that we
receive minutes within a certain period of time routinely, if there are items that
appear on the Council's agenda that we have to have the minutes for.
Dilkes/That's already in place.
Karr/That is in place.
Lehman/All right.
Vanderhoef/It just doesn't always happen.
O'Donnell/I don't have a problem with it.
Karr/I don't know that since we've ~rmed that up and I'd have, I don't know, since
we've firmed that up the last, not this most recent time but a time before, I don't
think you've ever had anything before you for action that you didn't have the
minutes.
Champion/We got the minutes of Mercy thing in a hard copy.
Karr/Prior to.
Champion/Prior to even now.
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Lehman/Well we got it quite a while ago.
Vanderhoef/Yea and we made a real special request for that.
Champion/(Can't hear) couldn't have been a problem but we did get minutes.
Karr/But I think that is the understanding is that any time Council is being asked to take
some action that the board or commission requesting that action furnish a copy of
the minutes. I don't know that as I said since that was clarified that we've ever
had a problem with that. As far as that issue is concemed.
Champion/But we bring up this all the time.
Kanner/I guess I'm in a minority but I still find it a problem.
Champion/You're not, you're not in a minority it's just that we haven't gone (can't
hear).
Vanderhoef/It's been ongoing Steven and I've asked for it for.
Champion/You're not in the minority.
Kanner/Well I'll write up my proposal and I think it is workable, that is something that
we could try.
Pfab/Steve I think the prior members of our...
(END OF TAPE 00-15 SIDE 1)
Kanner/We got a letter from John Watson about the Police Citizen Review Board and we
should talk about meeting with them or that request.
Lehman/I think after after we get through with budget we need to meet with them and I,
in fact I suggested that last fall, I think it's probably a good meeting.
Kanner/Maybe we could memo for that, maybe April or so.
Atkins/Did you talk to John?
Lehman/No I tried to call him and I missed him, I do intend to call him, I want to talk to
him as well.
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Karr/I did report to staff upon the direction received here that it would be after budget so
that might have been what John had heard through staff.
Lehman/Yea it would be.
Karr/After budget.
Lehman/Yea probably March or April.
Kanner/And also if you'd maybe mention to John, he said something about meeting with
the new members, he can feel flee anytime to call us individually I think, he
should feel flee.
Lehman/Well that' s true except when we set that commission up and I think this is I'm
going to take a minute here because I think it's very important. We receive 40
some applications for that PCRB board when it was first set up, one of the things
that we try very very hard to do was make that as non political group as we
possibly could. And the Council at that point pretty much said we will not
interact with that board, we want them to be as independent from the City Council
as they can possibly be. If they're ever viewed as being an arm of the Council
they lose their effectiveness so for the most part Council has not even talked to
those folks about what they do. I mean we'll say hello to John Watson or I see
someone on the street and I'll say Hi to them. As far as the Council interfering
with their work or their interfering with Council's work, we've really tried to
distance ourselves from each other so they can remain as independent as they
possibly can. I think that's a good policy now if this Council chooses to do
differently obviously we can do that.
Champion/No I think (can't hear) think about it.
Vanderhoef/The other thing, the other thing they do is if they have an encounter with us
you'll see it in the minutes.
Lehman/Well they'll come, I mean we've met with them before but.
Vanderhoef/I've talked with Dee Vanderhoef and this was a concem.
Lehman/Yea, but by and large we've really tried, I mean we have not. We have one
Council Member who wrote them a couple letters but overall the Council has tried
to distance ourselves from those folks, we read their annual reports, we've met
with them a couple times, but if they're going to be effective they've got to be
independent totally from the Council.
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O'Donnell/I agree with that.
Lehman/And that's kind of where we left it, if this Council chooses to do that differently
you know let somebody say so but I think it's a good policy.
Pfab/I have visited with, I don't think it was anybody on the board just a person that was
doing it, I just asked how, when, absolutely not intending to have any input on
just a curiosity of how they handle that.
Lehman/And I think some of those questions we can answer when we have our joint
meeting with them. There will be questions that all of us may have and certainly
it would certainly be the time to ask it.
Pfab/No I mean if they, if their perceived as being part of us, they're dead.
Lehman/Well yea and I don't think they should be.
Pfab/Right.
Kanner/One final, one final thing, I was wondering Eleanor if (can't hear) now but
maybe the next couple months we can get a response from you on the Supreme
Court ruling about a campaign contributions, we made a decision about changing
our ordinance based on what you perceived to be the previous Supreme Court
ruling.
Dilkes/No.
Kanner/No.
Dilkes/Not what I perceived to be the previous Supreme Court ruling, it was an eight
circuit ruling which governs our state at and that has been reversed by the
Supreme Court so yes I will, I'm in the middle of that opinion and I will give you
a memo on it and that's something you can take up again.
O'Donnell/I just have a quickie here.
Lehman/Yes.
O'Donnell/Mr. Norton's putting a great deal of pressure on me.
Vanderhoef/How many pins (can't hear)?
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O'Donnell/Who all is going to bowl in Big Brothers/Big Sisters? Ross.
Lehman/Oh that's fun, you've got to do it.
O'Donnell/It is a good time.
Pfab/Great difficulty but.
Lehman/Oh no.
Vanderhoef/You can do it this way.
Lehman/It's for fun.
Pfab/I can throw the ball it will go down the general direction.
Lehman/It's fun.
O'Donnell/Are you going to be there?
Pfab/When are the dates on that again?
O'Donnell/Is it the 241h or 261h?
Lehman/261h.
O'Donnell/261h.
Champion/Of February.
O'Donnell/If I don't get back to Mr. Norton tomorrow I'm in great deal of trouble.
Pfab/Well you give me a call tomorrow morning.
O'Donnell/OK.
Pfab/By that time I will my, I resurrected my computer.
Vanderhoef/I'm out of town.
Champion/(can't hear).
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O'Donnell/You're out of town.
Lehman/I'm out of town
O'Donnell/Connie your out of town. Steven are you going to do it?
Kanner/Sure.
Lehman/It's fun.
Champion/It is fun, it really is fun.
O'Donnell/OK anybody going to be with anybody?
Lehman/Marie's going to bowl isn't she?
O'Donnell/I don't know, I don't know.
Lehman/Spouses can bowl too.
O'Donnell/Yea.
Vanderhoef/Bring them along.
Lehman/In fact we had so many last time that we nobody got to bowl full games.
Vanderhoef/No, we had to take turns.
Chmnpion/And that' s why I'm not going this year.
O'Donnell/Because (can't hear)?
Champion/Yes.
O'Donnell/You're not going Connie.
Champion/I'm not going to be in town.
O'Donnell/OK.
Lehman/Send Craig.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of January 31, 2000.
WS013100
January 31, 2000 Council Work Session Page 89
(All talking).
Ross/I have nobody.
O'Donnell/So just one.
(All talking).
Lehman/Eleanor.
Dilkes/The discussion's fascinating Mike but you could adjourn and discuss this among
yourselves.
Lehman/All fight we're adjourned, good bye.
Adjourned 10:30 PM
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council
meeting of January 31, 2000.
WS013100