Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-04-12 Transcription April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 1 April 12, 2000 Council Work Session 5:20 p.m. Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Kanner, Wilbum (Pfab absent) Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Trueblood, Kriz, Moran, Robinson Tapes: 00-43 Side 2, 00-45 Side 1 [Discussion occurred as one item during Parks & Recreation Commission Meeting] Steve Atkins/First of all thank you for having the joint meeting. Very shortly the Commission, just so you know Terry and I did collaborate on all of this. Lehman/(can't hear). Trueblood/Sounds terrific. Atkins/Go ahem it's your turn now. That means you have to be quite now for the next few minutes. With your (can't hear), with your upcoming Master Plan there are some issues of concem that I presented to the Council during the budget process. Terry and I have discussed these off and on, oh over the last year or so. With a Master Plan you in affect set the direction to the future of our Parks and Recreation programs and out of the direction I'm assuming you will ultimately begin developing some specific goals that are things you would like to accomplish. Those goals are often likely to include new facilities, acquisitions, renovations, basically investment in (can't hear) Parks and Recreation. All capital investment with respect to the City requires us to raise money, we have to go out there just like any other business and sell debt. We can borrow from our sales funds, we pay ourselves back, called internal loans. Some of those investments are now requiting referendum, some of them won't. But under our current financial circumstances each and every one of those will affect the property tax. When you think about your Master Plan and from what I've experienced, that plan is to create a community vision. And when you create the vision, this body ultimately recommending to the Council I think it implies a commitment, and my concern is that a Master Plan which is to demonstrate commitment but if we were unable to financially fulfill that commitment we do a disservice to the public. Now some Master Plans are a lot easier to fulfill, as the Council is aware we have an airport Master Plan. Now we'll, regardless of opinions about the airport it's kind of cool because the Fed's. are going to pay 90% of the cost of the Master Plan. When you have Water Master Plans and Waste Water your in affect dealing with the Federal Land Bank, short of going to jail your going to do what the Fed's. tell you to do. The thing about a Parks and Recreation Master Plan is that is substantially a community issue and it takes community resources to finance the thing. Not that there aren't grants and other resources available but when we get This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 2 down to the bottom line it's really a local issue and local pocketbook that' s going to finance it. I would like to have the City Council and hopefully all of you discuss you know your thoughts, your opinions, with respect to your direction. In Iowa tax policies controlled by the state. We have only recently had our elective tell us no we're not going to pursue, in my judgment what is the only available option to us. We have many other community commitments coming on line very shortly, you know the public' s going to be asked to deal with a library referendum and all of these needs to be financed by property tax. But I don't mean to be boorish but above all, if we create a plan and we can't fulfill it, I really think we're doing a disservice to the public and their expectations. We've got good policies in place and the good policies have created somewhat of an accumulation of assets that we're not real sure and Terry will be picking it up shortly what to do with. We have park plan available to us now that needs investment. We have trails, those of you recently constructed those that we have planned that are going to ultimately need maintenance. And we have other projects that just simply how do we intend to finish out or fulfill our commitment. Terry can give you some of the operational impact, department inventory, miles in trail, and now and the future. But the bottom line is that I would hope that we develop a Master Plan that creates a vision but a vision within reasonable expectations of what we can and can't do financially. Terry with that is there anything you wanted to share while? Terry Trueblood/Get up where I can walk over here a little bit and see if I. Put a map of the City on the walls over there, I know it may be difficult for some of you to see it, that' s why we use bright red but you can see the parks such as there, Hickory Hill and City Park all the parks are in the light green to just to help get your barrings, the shaded gray area is University Heights and the light blue is Coralville. The Interstate 80 up there and so forth, but at any rate. Atkins/You mean the light blue is the University. Trueblood/Coralville. Champion/Right. Trueblood/I don't think so. Lehman/I think gray is the University. Trueblood/University Heights is gray. Atkins/What's the blue? Trueblood/University. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 3 (All talking). Atkins/That's the University. Trueblood/That's the University, I'm sorry, yea the University of Coralville. Atkins/I was going to say Coralville took up (can't hear). Excuse me. Trueblood/Coralville's somewhere up in this area. Atkins/There you go. Trueblood/(can't hear). Lehman/He doesn't get to Coralville very often. Trueblood/No more often than I have to. At any rate I know that you've heard figures before and so forth but we wanted to put this on the map because part of the discussion about Parks and Recreation Master Plan came about because of our request for additional personnel because of the big increases we've been having in park land inventory (can't hear) and I've just prepared some very simple figures here for you and I went back to 1985 which was before we've talked about like the past 10 to 12 years and so forth. I went back to 1985 partly because we had some figures available and partly because it was fight after that when I started here and so I guess you can say I can take the blame for a lot of this but at any rate just again here's the over here, almost all of this is now City land, there's a couple of it areas that maybe aren't fight now but will be in the next year or two like trails but Windsor Ridge over here that we've recently acquired, down in here is the soccer complex, that little part fight there is what we added to Wetherby Park. Ryerson's Woods, up here at the Peninsula Park Plan and the Water Works Park up there, this is the area Hunter's Run area fight in there. Right over in here are two of the subdivisions, Galway Hills and Walden Hills and then this represents the new Willow Creek trail down to about there and then it projected went on down to there. This represents that South Sycamore green way and trail areas projected for some time in the next couple of years. And then this represents the recently completed Iowa River Corridor Trails so the trails that are on here are ones that are have just been completed in the last couple of years or will be in the next year or two, didn't try to put all the trails on there. And of course some of the trails are in existing parks. Some of the things that I want you to understand it's not just a park land and trails issue that there are other factors that relate to this as well such as high maintenance areas. You know it's difficult to quantify for example that soccer park, that's a very high maintenance area so take a 100- 180 acre park elsewhere and it won't be nearly as high maintenance and not so This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 4 much staff demand as the soccer complex will be. Other factors that maybe more important is let them take into consideration is someplace like Napoleon Park and boy' s baseball diamonds. And the last three or four years we made a conscious decision that we had to step up with our maintenance of our sports facilities because for years and years frankly they were maintained not much differently than just a normal park would be and they obviously require a lot higher maintenance. In matter of fact some of our parks crew look upon it as that they've actually lost two maintenance crews over the recent years because we've taken two of them and devoted them greatly to the higher maintenance areas. The and it's not included in the acreage but the Hawkeye Softball complex that we entered into that agreement two or three years ago to for use of their facility and so there's more demand there that doesn't add acreage to our inventory. Another thing that's a factor is our unique projects as I call them such as, Shakespeare Theater, amusement rides, skate parks, maybe a dog park some day. But you know I can throw into that like Kiwanis Park because it's somewhat different from the rest of our parks, it may not require a higher level of maintenance but a different kind of maintenance and we can even throw in the newly refurbished downtown area and I know that's a CDB crew but the parks crew helps out with that on occasion, more than on an occasion. When we get new buildings it adds to the demand on existing staff, we've got two brand new buildings out at the soccer complex. The Scanlon gym, now that's a recreation building that' s true, and we have recreation custodians that maintain it on a day to day basis but whenever we need more than routine maintenance it's the parks guys that go there to fix it, broken windows, broken doors, whatever. And then this summer you know we're working with Babe Ruth on building constructing a new building to put in the center of the Mercer Park complex. And you might recall that we did a reorganization a couple years ago and basically took, eliminated two management positions and created one more management position and so forth. Now that reorganization is helping I think towards our maintenance efforts but it's difficult and not impossible to quantify. You know I can't tell you, that we, we added one new management position, we added a clerical position, and we added a maintenance position in forestry. But I can't tell you that reorganization has been the equivalent of one new maintenance worker on staff or anything like that. And one thing I wanted to do also is to there's kind of a misconception that the all this additional park land has come about as a result of the neighborhood space plan, that' s not the case, the vast majority of it has not come about because of the neighborhood space plan. Of this 600 to 700 acres that we've added, less than 100 acres have come through that plan. With regard to the Parks and Recreation Master Plan I do have some examples that I can distribute around to you to kind of give an idea of what we might be looking at, also as Steve indicated keep in mind that it's not just a park plan, but it's a Parks and Recreation Master Plan that we're proposing, so it takes recreation into account as well. The other thing too that I've, a question that I've been asked is whether it would take the place of this neighborhood open space plan and the answer is no it will not, this is still part of This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 5 the comprehensive plan that's still a pliable plan and it only complement this is what it amounts to. Can I move this without getting yelled at? Karr/Yes. Trueblood/So at any rate I'll just, I've got three examples here that to just kind of pass around and you can kind of look and see what a Parks and Recreation Master Plan is all about. I also wanted to let you know that Mike Moran and Terry Robinson are here if you have any recreation or parks related questions. I've told them they can't talk so don't be surprised if they don't answer you. At any rate, that's kind of it in a nutshell but you know again all those red areas up there are areas that have been added or will be very soon. One of the things on the information that I've passed around to you that I found of interest is a category I added was park land sites that we've jumped from 27 to 50 different sites. The reason I put that on there is some of the admissions have come in the form of additions onto existing park land so it's not a new site but others are brand new sites or will be soon. With that. Oh one other thing too I do have trails maps here in case you have any questions about them, I'll try and answer them but I'm not sure I can I just wanted to see that, or wanted you to see that there' s a lot of lines, dots, etc. on maps where new trails have been added and where more are proposed in the very near future. As far as I'm concemed right now Steve we're open for discussion fight. Atkins/We delivered the bad news. Trueblood/Well it's not bad news I think it's good news. Stroh/Well I'm glad to hear that we're going to look at both parks and recreation because what I'm kind of hearing Terry is that you kind of have a dual mission if you will, you know there's only so much money so. It's almost like we've got too much and that you know the amount of property that we've acquired is kind of tipping the scales in a way that it's kind of twisting your mission a little bit and going to compromise the recreational side of things if your going to meet all of your park land obligations in some manner so. I think one of the things we want to get the consultant to do is kind of look at that balance. Pacha/Well unless I'm mistaken I think the starting place is for us to be or for the consultant and us and whatever is going to be our prioritization that we just did. I think we've laid down some our thoughts on what' s important to us in the next foreseeable future. Trueblood/I think if we proceed with the plan or the things one of the things we have to be careful about is assuming we would hire a consultant to do this is to let the consultant know what we felt the priorities have been but not to taint that I guess This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 6 with or to influence it too much because part of this, the outcome of this will be for the consultant through community input to let us know what the community feels is important and what direction we ought to be headed. You know for example you know I mean it might come back that the community thinks we need a new recreation center on the west side of town. Obviously it would be a referendum issue and they might come back and say that we don't need any more trails, I wouldn't look for that to happen but you know so that, anyway through community input is what we have to find out what direction we need to head in. Kanner/Terry we've gone it looks like from 57 acres per park maintenance employee to 80 acres per park maintenance at roughly and I know you said there are different types of care that are needed in the different parks. But what do other cities have using that figure for maintenance, park maintenance person? Trueblood/Couldn't tell you just offhand. Kanner/Is that something that can be found out? Seeing how we're comparing to other cities in that regard. Trueblood/It can be certainly, you know we can, it's just sort of like in recreation that you know when we did a, our own little survey once on percentage of costs that they cover through fees and everybody kind of figures it a little differently so you know we had one community for example that told us that they were totally self supporting with their swimming operation. So we asked well what all costs do you include in that? Well everything. Do you include utilities? No. Do you include full time personnel? No. You know so you know but we can find out information basic information like how much park land do you have and how many full time equivalent employees do you have, but then again that's, they may not have as much in the way of high maintenance acreage that we do or they might have more, you know so it depends a lot on that too if they have a lot of low maintenance versus high maintenance and that kind of thing but and I looked for a standard there really isn't one that I can find anyway. Vanderhoef/Would that be included in the whole study, these folks would be obviously expert in some of these things but do they have expertise in saying how much staffing we need for certain kinds of areas so if they were to put together a plan that says we're going to develop this park into this kind of a thing and we will need 1.2 FTE's to maintain this particular park. Can they do that or will that do that? Trueblood/Not, well they may be able to, I haven't been able to find any kind of standard like that but you know a professional consultant may have some information that they know of that I don't have. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 7 Vanderhoef/Well I guess what I was thinking was since they would be reviewing exactly what we have would they be able to look at what we have without comparing it necessarily to someone else and say in their professional opinion this is what we might need. Trueblood/They can certainly do that yea. Vanderhoef/And if we are going again with a plan then this is definitely a component that I think should be talked about in our community conversations and up fronting it all the way through the kinds of dollars that it will take for both the (can't hear) for staffing. Trueblood/Yea, it's the kind of thing if we find out that the high priorities of the community are not affordable you know that' s just the word we have to take forth. Lehman/Well I think Steve and I think it's right, any master plan creates extra patience and even if a survey above that could find that a municipal called for is a huge priority, everybody wants it, then we don't have the money for it, we have created an expectation just by including it in the plan. Trueblood/That's a risk you run certainly. Lehman/What sort of information are you looking from (can't hear)? Because I personally feel that it and maybe I'm wrong but I can (can't hear) if we do decide that we're going to maintain the water plant park at a certain level you can probably figure out pretty quick how many people it's going to take to do it and I don't think you need a consultant to tell you that. What is the consultant going to do you? (Can't hear) Determine the demand of the community or the? Trueblood/It's an oversimplification would be to state the survey the community in some fashion, now that's not necessarily mailing out survey's to be completed, that kind of thing, more than likely it would be a host of community meetings, that kind of thing and they will inventory existing facilities, existing park land and all of that, they will probably do some comparison on either state wide or nation wide basis, and they will, but the big thing that we'll be looking for is for them to let us know what the community feels the priorities are, what we're lacking and we may find out that we're providing much more in some certain areas than what we need to be but. Lehman/Will they also have information from Steve as to what could be the reasonable expectation for funding? Trueblood/I think that's. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 8 Lehman/Given this pool of things that we'd like to do and this pool of money we have to it, these are what we reasonably could expect to see happen based on priorities that the community indicates are high priorities. Trueblood/Yea. I think personally I think we'd have to let the consultant know up fi'ont that when they meet with people they can't give the impression that OK the money' s there we just have to decide how it's going to be spent. Lehman/That's my point. Trueblood/You know they have to let them know that the money may very well not be there and they'll have to they'll have to let them know that might be able to build something and then can't staff it, you know that kind of thing. Pacha/Because then your almost getting into a feasibility study where your trying to test the waters what the public would be willing to pay for and I don't think that' s what we're after at least. Wilburn/I think it would also present an opportunity for education of the public as I mean as information that can be given back, these are high cost areas, these require, these are heavy staff intensive, just so that a group can have an awareness that if they are asking for a lot of a high ticket item area that it may be years before this would even be realized. And then the another thing that you were saying Terry it can create an awareness that maybe this isn't quite such a high area for the community and then maybe you as a commission and we as a Council don't need to have staff spend so much time looking into this particular area. You know it could also give you at least some indication when some of these items do occur or reoccur, dog park, is this interest? We don't know look around at each other and then you've got to spend time OK let's collect some information, this can up front give you some indication at this moment in time in our community these are some of the areas, directions that you want to focus on (can't hear). Trueblood/I know Emie that I wouldn't look at a master plan and I think I speak for the Commission as well I wouldn't look at a master plan and saying the kind of thing like OK we get this back now we've got to do this right now because this is what the master plan says but it will lay the ground work for us and something that maybe the master plan says that well within the next 5 years the community would like to see thus and so maybe that's something that's affordable in the next year whereas something else may not be affordable for five years out or ten years out that kind of thing so but we're looking at it as a blue print. Champion/I think it's important that you have goals (can't hear) master plan, I hate to get see you get some land that there can't be some kind of dream in there, I mean I think some things are going to be unrealistic but that doesn't have to mean they This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 9 shouldn't be at least brought about. So I think your going to have to be real careful about that especially working with the public but I think the idea of a master plan is a really good idea. Pacha/I think that's something we straggled with as well when we did our prioritization you know, OK part of me wants to say boy when I'm pfiofitizing part of me is always thinking dollars and well there's no sense making that a high priority we'll never pay for it but then you go back and that's not what we're suppose to do, we're suppose to you know, what do we feel our priorities are and base it on that and then you know have the money as a primary thing. I think that's what we tried to do within reason when we pfiofitized (can't hear). Stroh/Well it's not easy but you know a lot of this gets into semantics it really does but you know the University we talk about a master planning framework, we don't talk about a capital plan, it's not necessarily a list of projects at all, it's a framework of that has vision stuff in there about what the campus should look like overall and it's general feelings like we've got to continue to use the river bank and develop the river bank over time and so blah blah blah. But it gives you a framework where if we're going to build a building it will tell you where three or four places that would be appropriate for that. Champion/So it's more like a strategic plan. Stroh/Yea in a way, so we can, with the right kind of effort we can call it framework and vision and with out calling it a list of capital projects. Champion/I like that. Stroh/I think that ought to be what our emphasis ought to be. But I really do think that the community needs to, that's what I really see out of this is to find out what people really want because if you look at that list, if you get back to projects, you look at 20 projects well they all look great you know, well we should do them all, you know and we know we can't do that so, what do people really want, they want swimming lessons or softball? Man/A dog park. Wilburn/I remember when one of my latter commission meetings I brought up a US News article that talked about ten cities that they had picked and were citing specific things about the community and what they're known for and they picked Minneapolis and the park system and way back when one of the (can't hear) statements that they had was that you know it's X number of blocks to a park consistently throughout town and you know you go up there now and low and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 10 behold that's (cant' hear) over time it's been worked on just like saying that the University (can't hear). Stroh/Well the open space is (can't hear) is that they. Wilburn/Absolutely. Stroh/You know you do it when you can but at least you have an idea what to do when you get the opportunity afford to do. Vanderhoef/And how many of the citizens recognize and buy into the vision of now since that was done in 64, 96, 95 whatever, do they still buy into that vision of the neighborhood park, the size of it, and the activity of it between the community services of the neighborhood retail spaces, (can't hear) schools and all that stuff, is that still important to them to have those intra city kinds of trails and connections? Atkins/Can I be wet blanket? Lehman/We expect nothing less. Vanderhoef/So what else is new? (All talking) Atkins/Come on be nice (can't hear). I feel, I feel you know in a very strong way that in support of what I hear you saying that is vision, it's like you aim at nothing you hit it every time, you have to have targets, you have to have direction, you have to have vision. But there's an underlying question that you have to keep in mind. Ten years ago we were able to tax residential property at 80 percent of it's value, we now tax it at 55, we used to have a tax on machinery and equipment, that's gone. Financial foundation is being altered for cities all throughout Iowa, I mean this is nothing to panic over but one of the questions that I would you know would pose to you is that take that map and put today's dollars estimate the build out of all the land we've accumulated in the fashion we wanted today. And find out what that number is, I think your going to, it's going to be staggering. Then add on top Of that what new interests might come along, like the things you've been talking about, after the equation. I think the Commission and the Council and the City is at a very unique point, we have to our good fortune huge accumulated assets, that we have a dollars, just look at the land that' s available to you. But given the underlying financial consequences I think you need to almost back into your plan, you're going, and by the way this is one of the better Commission' s of my experience but I mean you will make those (can't hear) decisions of setting priorities. And that you may have to say that land, that accumulation of land will stay that way during the 10 or 15 year life that this master plan just because we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 11 simply can't afford to do it. And I think you, you need that ambition going into the planning process, now I understand what your telling me about the University, the difficulty is that the University spends time, and I say this quite (can't hear) University, they don't have to levy a tax, these guys got to levy a tax and then that tax taxing capability is so severely restricted we can't fulfill often many of our visions. And I would also ask you is that make sure that the planning you have coincides with, jives with other planning initiatives. I thought it interesting particularly, our Economic Development Committee just met prior to this and we decided the Senior Citizen component of our local economy, population profile is something we're going to tilt that soil to occur, they're going to have a dramatically different requirement for recreation of park activities than my teenage kids. Pacha/That' s one of the things we. Atkins/(Can't hear). Pacha/That's one of the things we battled way back when we tried to develop the softball complex, we battled it again at ScanIon. Atkins/Yea, and you've done some really wonder, I mean having been a participant in softball the University you made with the lights I mean were really a minor investment of what $150,000 when we put those lights up. We really made a tremendous asset made available to us and I think your going to have to think about how (can't hear) occur. Again I don't want to be the one that wet blanket but I also have to. Pacha/Well your doing a good job it. Atkins/It's a question of accumulated, we have not lots available (cant' hear) and a question that I've proposed to the Commission and to Terry is that just doing what we've got right now, if money wasn't the issue, what would that cost? And I think your going to find that staggering. Trueblood/You're talking about development and operation costs, maintenance costs, so forth. Atkins/Terry, whatever you know you, whatever you would think. I look at one of the real neat recreational opportunities we have in Water Works Park, I just think that's going to be so nifty. And the cost to develop Water Works Park a couple million bucks. Stroh/Pretty nice park now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 12 Atkins/Yea, but look at all the features, it's got (can't hear). (All talking). Atkins/All the really neat things, all the things that we all like are available there. And so I think your also going to really find yourself doing your master plan that' s going to be, here' s generally what we have, here's our vision for these things, this is what we think we can reasonably accomplish in the next 10 years or something such as that. Wilbum/Well the ongoing process where you'll say well that year, not now. Pacha/It's going to be a working document you know. Atkins/But I think for the Council to be able to do their jobs they have got to know that going on that Water Works is more important than soccer fields. (can't hear). Lehman/He just said it. Pacha//Well I have to say one thing. Well first of all I have a question before I forget it Steve, you mentioned about the I don't know if it was a federal grant or what have you that paid for the consultant's fees on the airport master plan, is there anything that would be available that you know of or Terry to pay for, Terry available. Atkins/He would know those better than me. PachaJ That would pay for our consultant fees or a portion there of, grants or. Trueblood/Grants in Park and Recreation aren't nearly as plentiful as they used to be. Although the state is doing a pretty good job now with the REAP program and the recreation infrastructure grants and LOCK ON is allegedly making a come back if you want to sign your first bom over to the Federal govemment but which I might consider by the way. It's difficult to get grant money' s for consultant work, design work as a (can't hear). Atkins/I think the State and Federal government just simply perceives that to be the responsibility locally. (Can't hear) the importance of master planning I don't think your going to see a nickel. I mean I thought the fact that Terry raised successfully got a $80,000 grant for the Shakespeare Theater, talking about falling out of the sky and into our laps that was really luck. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 13 Pacha/He's a lot more valuable than we ever thought he would be. Well the other thing I was going to say was I think that I mean I agree wholeheartedly we need to proceed with a master plan but I'd also like to say that over the course of the 27 years I've been on this Commission, well maybe not quite that long but we have, we've reprioritized a couple of different times and when we did the last session we looked at or I looked back at our last prioritization when you were involved and so on and look at what we've accomplished just by you know without a plan like you say, just shooting at the dark, and we knocked off you know out of our top 10 probably 5 or 6 of them just you know through the soccer park and so on through joint efforts obviously Scanlon. There was a bunch of them that we, but the component missing there was the public input, what do they want, you know we, when we do our prioritization we don't. Atkins/Something to keep in mind people is that (can't hear) expectation, remember I don't remember how long ago it was we went to a referendum on Napoleon Park and the south soccer fields and got our heads handed to us and yet we were able to do all of those things. PachaJ Right. Atkins/Now remember Napoleon Park was a cooperative effort between public works and Park and Rec. because we had to put sewer line so there was cooperative. Trueblood/It was cooperative, they tore it up and we put it back together. Atkins/There is some public expectation that see. Pacha/Right, that's very true. Atkins/Yea. Vanderhoef/In retrospect though when you look at the projects that we have kicked off look at how many of them are public/private partnerships into doing those and which comes first the plan that says this is what we want and then all at once do we get a group of folks that say this is so important to us that we're willing to partner with you and bring you some dollars to make some of those kinds of things happen. Pacha/A lot of times that's what it takes, they see it in the master plan and they say well when are you going to do this, well as soon as the money is available and maybe that gets them moving. Champion/That still doesn't answer your problem that of maintaining those facilities. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 14 PachaJ No, no. Champion/That because I think a real problem there with maintenance. Pacha/That's very true. Lehman/Well I also think particularly when it comes to trails and maintenance a lot of empty trails I'm sure (can't hear) like to see you go and every mile you add to trails is more maintenance. In the last two years, and Steve obviously knows who the budget makes recommendation to Council but the last two years gave you an extra person, I shouldn't say an extra that's a bad word. We added one person to Steve' s recommendation a year ago, we added a half person this year and neither of those even begin to satisfy the need that you really have. Pacha/But the one you give us next year will (can't hear). Lehman/But the problem is that I don't know but Steve is a better judge of that but there's Council has got to look at the priorities I guess as we see them and I don't know how much more. I mean obviously I think there's going to be a certain amount of increase each year just normally but as far as real increases, and I think that's what we're talking about is real increases funding for Parks and Recreation or almost any other department, really tough to come by, real increases, to keep up with what you've been doing, I see those things probably happening in any department. Real increases, have we looked at the Peninsula Park and Water Works Park and we moved a couple of those projects out of the CIB just because we don't see how we can do them and those are real increases when they do come about that's going to be. Although I think perhaps you have ideas as far as natural areas that need minimum maintenance whatever but you know a master plan that indicates a lot of real increases and expenditures for Parks and Recreation is probably going to be met with a fair of disappointment. Champion/Well I think too when you do your Master Planning you do kind of a goal setting log like what do we need and how many square miles or however you want to measure it or per person or whatever and then you have to ask the question you know how much donated money and labor can we afford? Because we do have to take care of it and you can get saturated too, I mean Hickory Hill is a beautiful park but the question (can't hear) do we really need a second one, do we really need another one? I don't know, that's a question we've been asked to take on. How much of one thing do we need? This is not a very big community when I look at all the wonderful facilities we have available to us, we're awfully lucky, this is not a New York City, this is really a small town (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 15 PachaJ Well I say it every year and I'd still like to see and I know we're successful only to a certain degree but I think we're going to have to continue to look at contracting out some of these services to handle some of this. Atkins/But keep in mind you have to pay the contractor. Pacha/Well absolutely but you don't have to pay the health insurance, and you don't have to pay all the overhead and the benefits and everything and in the long run it's going to be cheaper, I would imagine. Vanderhoef/Especially for seasonal work. Atkins/But also remember the quality of work that' s gone onto it. Pacha/Well something is going to have to give, I hate to say it but you know if you can't. Atkins/I'd be (can't hear). Pacha/Yea if we can't do it with full time. (All talking). Lehman/We really need to save though, nobody said we're, (can't hear) difficulties what we'd like to do and whatever, you guys do an incredible job and you basically do a tremendous job, this community is very very fortunate to have facilities that we have and as well run as they are that's a real credit to this Commission and to (can't hear). Trueblood/Thank you. Wilburn/I'll second that Terry. Trueblood/What do you want? Atkins/Worded about split vote. Kanner/One of the issues that were obviously looking at is the University has brought our attention along with other people of course is drinking problems and so the people are talking about alternatives which I think leads to park and recreation is one of those possible alternatives and so I'd like us to consider how much more of a partner we can make the University in any kind of master plan. I know that we go to them and ask them for support in small partnerships but maybe we need to consider making it more of an equal partnership if we're not there yet and that' s one thing that Parks and Rec. should perhaps look at to see if we can plan this This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 16 together if it's viable to do that that might be one source of other ideas and possible funding. Stroh/We've had this recent cooperation with the River Corridor (can't hear) obviously and that's (can't hear). Of course. Pacha/Well Commissioner's you've got the full attention of the Council I would certainly encourage anything, thoughts you have to. Maurer/I would just as long as we've got the Council here I would just like to make a comment that obviously we have a great need for some maintenance people and we're going to continue to have our way at that but I would like to really commend you for adding on that half time position for us this year so that we can make that programmer out at Mercer a full time position because that's the person that's dealing directly with out youth program for that youth. A lot of at-risk kids, especially at a part of town where we've had some problems and I really think that that is a real plus for us and I really commend you for taking the initiative to put some money there because I really that that person will have a definite impact on that, on those problems that exist at that youth home. Thank you. Champion/Thank you. That brings another idea about your master plan that if we can, you said our programs are at-risk youth, are there grants available through the states at-risk educational grants, I mean they would which also do things like recreation and maybe I don't know if you maybe lobby the legislatures on this, there might be some money in that type of thing in the future (can't hear) now but this, the state is very much into, well as you know better than I do youth programs and things that benefit youth. Pacha/Does the MPRA or the IPRA do anything with that Mikey? Mike Moran/Not a whole lot, but there are some possibilities throughout (can't hear). Atkins/I would just remind you that I'd rather put a plan together that we put together and rely on our own resources than simply hope that something may fall out of the sky, fall out of the sky of course. I just don't see the state and federal government supporting parks and recreation, they just traditionally, I mean they don't support it. The fire departments either, and on your own with that. Trueblood/But they do is more project oriented. Atkins/They will absolutely, yea, if you can give a good project, a one time paying for their buck, the Shakespeare Theater's they're more inclined to do that. They're not going to make an operational commitment to, I think Dee you need be cautious about accepting operational (can't hear) because it will eventually. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 17 Trueblood/Well often if they do it will be along the lines of the police, you know you've got a commitment for this brief period of time and then where do you go from there. Atkins/Yep. PachaJ Well speaking of lobbying you know this isn't going to stop us from coming to you every year and lobbying for more staffing and more as we see fit but I hear what your saying and we understand the pressures there as well. Vanderhoef/And there's lots of needs for staffing in different areas so it isn't that we're trying to hold back from one area just to another area and we have to set those priorities too and it's not easy. PachaJ Maybe you ought to get a master plan going. Lehman/We can't afford it. Atkins/As difficult as it is for you and I'm speaking for working for City Council's for 30 years when you set a priority it makes the choices more difficult and easier to (can't hear) at the same time, very clear of what you want done and often time a Council member. (END OF 00-43 SIDE 2) PachaJ Anyone else you folks want to, I'd just hate to miss an opportunity. Moxley (Can't hear) In other words you know can there be two master plans (can't hear) the idea of being (can't hear) take the time to (can't hear). Pacha/Kinda hate to limit the scope I'm not sure, just going to stand for it I think you might have a very valid point maybe (can't hear) deal with what we've got and another one. Moxley/One to deal with what we got and (can't hear) with maybe what we'd like to have in the future. Pachad That might be able to be a component of them (can't hear). Trueblood/A lot of times with Master Plans they try to put a time frame on like you know like within the next three years, accomplish this within the next 10 years, accomplish this you know that kind of thing, that might be sort of getting at what you're looking for. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 18 Wilburn/Well I was thinking indirectly too by having certain visionary and prioritize that's going to drive, should drive maintaining that area as well if trails are very high the priority area and the (can't hear) seem to me that the staff was also saying we're getting stressed this priority to the area of trails (can't hear). Trueblood/Absolutely. Maurer/How often does a master plan need to be updated? And we're talking about doing one initially (can't hear) kind of has to be. Atkins/It will vary, I mean I think you should do probably a decade, a 10 year plan but it needs to be looked at every 5 years even ifit's just bring it back to you for a session and where have we been, where are we going. Stick it in your face for a while (can't hear) Terry's part of an internal group that our capital improvement committee, which is Public works Director, Planning Director, and Terry and those folks and that's how the project will fall in line. Any capital projects takes a year to plan a year to get it approved, a year to plan (can't hear) what happens is it overlaps city councils so you have to put (can't hear) that 10 years revisited every 5 (can't hear). Trueblood/And you don't have to have the consultant come back in to update it. Atkins/(can't hear). Kanner/One other thing I perhaps a master plan should look at is in terms of urban sprawl, we have a lot of good things in place but what component of urban sprawl is working on ways to cut down traffic congestion and certainly trails and bike trails are a component of that so I would hope that that would be a part of looking at what might be considered a plus for our community that not just look at it in terms of maintenance but how much are we going to cut back on auto traffic by building this bicycle trail. What will that save us in those terms of essential good. That would be another component I would want. Endel/You know one comment that was mentioned earlier about the quality of life in Iowa City as far as recreation facility I mean how do we compare to a certain extent and I think that although we've done a tremendous job in Iowa City we haven't had the opportunity to go visit Anchorage Alaska until we see what a failed system can be we have 120 more miles of(can't hear) trails (can't hear) every part of a fairly large city that's in pristine parks where you can virtually walk around anywhere you work and it also connects with retail and neighborhoods. And in terms of what are Commission has been feeling I know that the trail system has been high priorities helping our list to a certain extent because from my point of view when we have limited dollars I really like to see This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 19 the trail system continue to be developed because 90-1 O0 percent of the population can use it so I agree with your point of view as we continue to grow into urban more urban sprawl areas we need to connect the trails. I sometimes think we don't do that very well. Champion/We got started late. Atkins/I think my (can't hear) measure, the trail business for us we're really only about 4-5 years into it and I can remember the Council that actually said we're going to push this thing up and I don't know that at the time Terry but in the last 4-5 years we've really pumped up to get the trails out (can't hear) on the Council members with respect to the trails (can't hear) the momentum was surely created a number of years ago. And there's a lot of this (can't hear) it's on it's way and. Vanderhoef/Right, it's called interest they wanted it, that I see being pushed for right now of course I was always (can't hear) sooner than later and we know have major ones built in this town and (can't hear) so I would hope they would tum out as a high priority and I don't know if that's what will happen in the community. Endel/But one of the key things that we discovered, we decided month to month that (can't hear) when staff made recommendations about should we take land or fees, you know we always are trying to decide gee if you don't take the land are you going to lose the trail accessibility because you know when there are different Council's and different members on the committee are they going to be basing the same challenges we do without able to connect different lengths that we thought we could connect. You know that's one of the, I think the hidden reasons why sometimes we take the land knowing it's more and more pressure on Terry. Atkins/I don't know, ifit's OK but I think it's pretty brazen because you take the land you very clearly go back to the Council and put in on the table we've got the land now we need to develop it. But if you don't have that the Council's in a position of well we condemn this property to get this connected to do that but that becomes a whole different set of unequal questions and I've always suspension you know that's why you've got the land (can't hear). Endel/Well once you lose it you hardly ever get it back. Atkins/Yes. Endel/You know what it's like in Iowa City. PachaJ We were chastised a few years ago for accepting fees and somebody had to pay for it and one person's (can't hear) for accepting fees too often and not enough land and I didn't agree with it then and. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000. April 12, 2000 Council Work Session Page 20 Atkins/Well fortunately taking of the fees I can understand you know there's certain circumstances you can go by (can't hear) but you need the recurring income to make sure (can't hear). PachaJ Well I want to thank you guys for coming and visiting us. Vanderhoef/Thank you. Thanks for all your work. 6:15 PM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 12, 2000.