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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-05-01 Transcription May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 1 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Kanner, Wilbum (Pfab 6:35) Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Davidson, Fosse, Winkelhake, Mollenhauer, Bower Tapes: 00-52 Both Sides', 00-53 Side 1 Joint Meeting with PCRB Lehman/OK first of all this meeting from now to 7:00 is going to be discussing issues with the PCRB, I'm going to have John lead us, I think you got a copy of the agenda in a packet so go ahead. John Watson/OK, thanks, thanks for agreeing to meet, we know it was a busy spring. We want to start by introducing our board members that are at least here. She is here, she is our immediate past chair, Pat Farrant is our current vice chair, Paul Hoffey is with the first chair, he's on vacation but he is with service the first year and a little bit more than that I guess as our first chair. John Stratton is our newest member, he replaced Margaret Raymond who you may remember moved to India, out of reach for us to continue, and I'm John Watson the current chair, I'd also like to introduce Sandy Bauer who is our Administrative Assistant and Catherine Pugh who is our Counsel and as you may recall she replaced Doug Russell who's now a Circuit Court Judge. The agenda that we had set out was kind of general, I'm just going to go through it very briefly and we want to leave time for you to ask questions about whatever you'd like to we'll make time so. Just a very brief overview of our responsibilities, the first one of course is to review often complaints of police misconduct that come to us. We try to do that as thoroughly and as objectively as we can, and you see the products of that in the report, you get a copy of all of our reports. Another duty that's spelled out in the ordinance has to do with overall performance of the police department to support your efforts and the City Manager' s and the chiefs efforts to evaluate performance, we really haven't done a whole lot in that area at this point, it's something that we would be interested in helping you to do with if you are interested in that but we don't have any specific tools to do that at this point. We also, part of the ordinances to ensure, assure the citizen' s of the city that the department performances in keeping community standards. One of the things that we try to do is to determine what those community standards are and we tell some forms to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 2 do that, we are looking at, we have been offered opportunities by the chief to review policies and we've done that and we've specially looking at use of force and traffic stop policies because it seems like a lot of our complaints are centered around those issues. A bit of a progress report we're approaching the end of our third year of existence, and as I indicated four of the original appointees are still on the board. John began last fall, he's learned very quickly, there are two terms due to expire this year in a few months and that is John's because he filled an unfulfilled term and Pat Farrant. In the first two years we spent a great deal of time and thought, and your staff spent a great deal of time and thought on processes, we really started from scratch, we had to develop forms and processes, we're still refining and improving those but it's most of that work is SOP' s and all that business is mostly behind us. And we're not having to spend as much time and I think the City Attorney and others are not having to spend as much time on processes. Complaint trend, just a brief overview, in a few minutes you'll get a copy of our annual fiscal report so you'll have to ignore but to date since we've been informed we've received 38 complaints. In recent, in the recent months perhaps years complaint activity has slowed down, we have not been receiving as the first two years. Ten of the 38 complaints involved allegations of excessive force, 6 of the 38 involved allegations of a racial motivation or discrimination, there were 27 complainants, you remember even though there were 38 complaints there were 27 complainants, you may remember that in the first year we had 12 from one complainant so I, that's one person, so we have 27 complainants. Of those 13 or 48 percent were white, 7 or 26 percent were black, one Hispanic, one Asian, one unknown or not reported. Again we'll give a complete breakdown of that at the end of the fiscal year and you'll get that as part of the annual report. In the area communication, it has been very helpful to have an officer in attendance at our meetings, I think it's been an officer at the rank of lieutenant or higher for the most part, but that's been very helpful. It's open communication often it's the chief, often one of his captains or lieutenants. One of the things that we're looking at or going to be looking at closely is the traffic stop data that's being compiled by the department, we feel it's very important to have a full year of data to work with and that's really just going to give us a baseline and it's going to take two or more years to really understand I think what's, to have enough data to really understand what's going on and if there are any trends in that. It will take a careful analysis and we haven't decided this but I'm going to suggest perhaps we hire some professional consultant to help with the analysis that I think there may, unless there may be some people that are chiefs that are in this field that understand that but it's very difficult to draw conclusions from a small base of information especially from just a short period of time so I think we have to be very careful in looking at it before we draw too many conclusions but we'll be doing that oh later in the Summer I think starting to look at that. Attached to our agenda that we sent you was several kind of a narrative of several issues and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 3 concerns that the board has. One is kind of our request for kind of a, a report card, we worked long and hard and would like some feedback from you either as a body or as individuals on how you perceived our work and the products of our work. The second issue was the Sunset cause, we the board by the ordinance will cease to exist as of August 1 of 2001 unless you decide it will continue before then. Some of you have a position on that as we have that the PCRB should not Sunset, it should not die, although more than a year away we believe now is a good time to begin discussion of the criteria that you will use to determine whether the PCRB will continue. Cost, in the last, about this time last year, well last time we met I guess there was some discussion by some Council members about cost. Just, as far as our budget is concerned we're about 35 percent below budget year to date, mostly that' s in the area of attorney fees, we believe that there' s also been, probably been a significant reduction of time devoted by the City Attorney and the Police Department staff in the last year as our process work would decrease then actually as complaints have decreased. And lastly about the participation of officers in some of our process, and I want to, Catherine pointed out it's not the Fourth Amendment, I'm not a lawyer or a constitutional expert, it's not the Fourth Amendment but the Fifth Amendment that officers exercise when they decide not to release the transfer, sorry about that, in case some of you caught that. Anyway that is an issue, we're not, we're kind of stumped about what to do with that, we'd appreciate any suggestions or support you can give us. I think that kind of wraps up the formal part of the presentation, I'd invite though any Council Members, not Council Members, Board Members that want to add to that at this point before we go on and open it up for any questions or comments you want to. Pfab/You're not a board member, wait a minute, let me ask the Board Members first. Watson/I have a question. Farrant/No I think you covered it briefly. Watson/John OK good, Irvin go ahead. Pfab/In this, what you know that we as City Council Members don't know and take the climate, the political climate, the law enforcement climate there is now, would you start one if there wasn't one. If you didn't exist. Watson/Would I? Pfab/And sitting on the City Council would you start it? Would you initiate one? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 4 Watson/I don't think it would have occurred to me, I mean I can't think, I don't think we can deny that it was bom in the aftermath of the Eric Shaw incident and tragedy. I mean I can't put that myself in that, I mean that's so large, I can't put myself in a position of not thinking, I don't think it occurred to any of us in the community that I'm aware of until that happened. But that' s not to say it's not a good thing, other communities have it and have had it, but I think most of them were probably created of some incident, but they still do good work, it doesn't mean that they're not important. That's my reaction to it. Pfab/Just what I asked. Watson/OK. Champion/Because you have kind of a, I don't want to say a distant relationship from the City Council. Lehman/No that's the fight word. Champion/I mean you should. Lehman/That's correct. Champion/And off the police department and even the City Manager, tell me what the police officers presence, how does that help you? Watson/The presence at our meeting? Champion/Yes. Watson/I think we, feel free to differ with me Board Members but I think we feel it's helped with communications between us and the department. It's not an extremely formal meeting, of course when we deliberate about complaints we're in executive session, there's nobody in the room but us and our staff so nobody is there but us and the staff, and that's by law, there's no choice about that, we have to. Champion/Well I think you're a commission that I think more people in town are aware of just like the Planning & Zoning than any other commissions that we have. And I have to frankly tell you that I've never heard a complaint so I think people perceive (can't hear) what they want you doing. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 5 Cohen/I think part of that Connie is I do feel that since the police board was set up there' s a lot of functions in accordance with the ordinance that they do but I also do think that there's a different feeling perception on someone (can't hear) and I do, I know I certainly hear quite often, I do feel that the community in a way many members of the community feel with the Police Board there that things are kind of being taken care of, that if you know with an oversight of sorne sort, I think there' s good confidence in the police department and I do think that has something to do with that. I think that you know from what I hear from citizens I think that there's also the you know the perception that with the Board sitting there the police department kind ofpolice's themselves knowing that that Board sits all over town. To get back to your question on officers being at meetings, I can honestly say I think initially it was a little uncomfortable for the board and maybe little more reserved, I think we've become comfortable with that now and feel a little better about communicating back and forth with a member of the department that was there. Champion/That's good. Is it usually a different police officer all the time or? Cohen/Most the time. Watson/Captain Widmer more than anybody else but we've had Lieutenant Johnson and Lieutenant Wyss is that his name and the chief and so it, but those are the ones that come the most. Stratton/Having an officer there allows us if we have questions to get instant feedback on those questions rather than debating what might be and what having to wait for another two weeks before we get an answer (can't hear). Lehman/I've got a couple questions, first I know that for example Human Rights Commission, the director obviously takes complaints and is able on many occasions to take care of the complaints without lots of research and whatever and just say yea this is one we should pursue or I don't think we have anything here. When you get a complaint, how soon do you reach the conclusion that the complaint has merit, I mean how much work do you go through? Do you go through the same process on all of them? Watson/No. Lehman/I mean is it possible, because I know you spend an awful lot of time and I'm sure I speak for the Council we appreciate that amount of time. But is there a point in the process where it becomes apparent that this is really something that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 6 needs to be dug into very deeply or this one is kind of superficial and it should be dismissed? Watson/Well we have different levels, the ordinance allows us different levels of review for a complaint and one is just on a record, that's the simpler, we just take the chiefs report and we discuss it and we write a report based on that and our. But we feel that. Lehman/OK but then you do. Watson/Other information. Then we can. Lehman/Those you agree with the chiefs report and you move onto the next complaint. So you don't have to go through the process of every single complaint of?. Watson/Well we have our process but. Lehman/Well I, OK, but not. Watson/But we don't have to do our investigation, we don't have to request additional materials, we just take what the chief submits to us and if we feel that's adequate for that particular complaint then that' s it, we won't, we can move fairly quickly on that. It still takes a couple of meetings, two or three meetings between to assign a team to draft a report, we do the draft that goes back and then we look at it one final time, it has to go through our Counsel, which we review by our Counsel to (can't hear). I'd say there is some but, let me answer the question another way, there isn't a way to kind of summarily dismiss a complaint on because we think it's frivolous, we can't, we can't consider any complaint on it's face frivolous and just say heck with it. Lehman/But after getting the chiefs report you can at that point decide yes we'll pursue this one or. Watson/Yes. Lehman/OK, now the second question, in the agenda that you gave us tonight, the first item is review complaints and the second and third are to help the chief and the City Council evaluate overall performance and assure the citizens of Iowa City that the performance is in keeping with community standards. How much does one number one, reviewing the complaints tell us about two and three? Watson/Oh boy. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 7 Farrant/That's a hard one, I think. Lehman/No, no, it is a hard one. Farrant/You know I think it reveals on an issue, a case by case basis, certain approaches that are taken to certain complaints. I think they are all taken seriously but I think we have discovered that there are different ways that complaints are approached in the investigation complaints are approached. I don't know how much you can derive in terms of patterns. One of the things that I think maybe could get at what your if I heard what your asking is that in the beginning we were concerned that there were going to be two kinds complaints for us, two parallel streams of complaints and I think maybe having that in retrospect now has perhaps made it easy to not dismiss but to handle expeditiously the complaints that don't merit our level of review and I think they kind of treat (can't hear) when they come in to pick up which form they're interested in they're interested in in pursuing. So I mean I think maybe we don't get too many where this is clearly just a disgruntled citizen who going take out his frustration on the police department, I don't think we getting any at all. We are very careful not to be make a big issue out of the small issue in terms of investigation. Lehman/And don't you think that maybe the public maybe a lot more reluctant to file a frivolous complaint that this is going to you and they might be if they were just going to complain to the police department? I mean I'd think long and hard before I filed a complaint and had a Board look at it. I probably wouldn't think quite as long in complaining to a sergeant or the chief that. (cant hear). Lehman/That' s one thing but if I'm going to do that and write it down and go to the Board. Farrant/We're not catharsis, catharsis is you go and complain to the desk, if you take it one step further you can still withdraw it, they can withdraw a complaint whenever they want I think. Cohen/(can't hear) nobody ever has. Watson/Nobody has yea. Farrant/I think there's, yea but I don't think we get too many of just cranky annoyed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 8 Watson/Other than the first year. Vanderhoef/Well that first year yes. Lehman/Well I think that's new untried waters, people are testing the water, we all are testing the waters, you know you folks, the Council, everybody. But it just seems to me that the overall evaluation of the police department is mirrored somewhat by the resolution of complaints. Watson/You know I think it's a little dangerous to draw too many conclusions from the fact that most of the allegations that we found are not sustained or the number of complaints are going down. Some of the allegations are serious, some of them by our process we almost have to say they are not sustained, in some cases though we suspect that not that we would sustain them but there was some other things going on that might have been preventable. Wilburn/You mentioned that you were troubled by officers not taking advantage of the mediation. I was curious as to what are your hopes to come out of such a mediation and I mean you can't go into a specific case but can you perhaps color in how that how it might have influenced something that you were looking at? Watson/Well I don't think it's influenced us at all, I mean it's pretty much routine, it's all for both parties, and both parties have to agree to it and we don't always know, often the complainant doesn't want to do it too I think I mean informal mediation is always available to a complainant and that is not necessarily with an officer or the subject of the complainant, it can be just one, the chief or one of the chiefs staff that, or the supervisor of the officer that, that's always available and I don't know how else, we don't have information about how often that's used. The formal mediation process is done through a third party contracted by us to do the mediation, professional mediation. I think it's only been tried only once or twice. Farrant/It's a very low rate. Watson/And the one that was there was not successful. I guess, and I can understand why an officer in a particular situation would not want to go into mediation with a particular complainant and vice versa. What we're concerned about is just kind of the blanket coalition of mediation that, an officers being told amongst themselves or by the union or whatever don't mediate, that' s what we're concerned about. It should be the individual officers decision to do that we believe, the same thing with attending a name clearing heating. If it looks like we're going to be critical of an officer we're required to hold a name clearing heating so the officer can This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 9 appear to us and give his or her side of the story. Apparently had been told to not attend those. Lehman/RJ would you respond to that officers not appearing at name clearing or for mediation because I think and I think your fight John what I read they've been, I believe this is correct encouraged by their union not to participate. Watson/We've got correspondence that indicates that. Lehman/OK. Winkelhake/Early on I think there was one name clearing, where in fact the officer decided not to go, I spoke with him and he went and I think that probably changed the. Watson/Yep, it changed our. Winkelhake/What the decision was. Since that time we have received correspondence, I have from the union say they do not want to do that, they are not going to do that, and I've received from the union president and I believe from their attorney as well that they choose not to take part in it period. Champion/Are all the officers members of the union? Winkelhake/I can't tell you who is and who isn't, I've been told. Karr/Yea, RJ would you use the mic on the podium please. Winkelhake/Okay. I can not tell you who is or who isn't, but I have been told that not all of the officers are members but who is and who isn't I don't know. Pfab/I have a question. You have access to the video tapes, the audio transmissions, radio so you have that without the officer being there? Watson/Yea we can request any part of the case file, unless it was, if it's a transcript of the officer or any material that was obtained from the officer because of an investigation, we're not entitled to that if the officer says no. Rut it should be the of~cer's decision to not release it, not, I mean it's the of~cer's 5th Amendment right not to release it, it's not the union' s 5th Amendment right or the departments 5th Amendment fight. Lehman/I think we're going to get an opinion on that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 10 Dilkes/I just want to clarify though, I agree that we have received correspondence from the union and it does appear to be a union position but we do in each individual case require that the officer sign a statement either releasing or choosing not to release their statement. So we do not rely on a the union' s position to make that decision in each case as to whether we're going to release the statement. We require the individual officer to make that decision. Pfab/But you were saying that all the data that's collected by the police department in the daily, in the process of ongoing either with videotape or audio, radio transmission and radio traffic that that' s available to you, other than if somebody sits down with the officer and said I I'm putting you down in an investigative interview, that you don't have any access to? Watson/The product of that interview fight I don't have access to, anything. Pfab/So you really don't go into those things naked either do you? I mean that you have the public opinion. Watson/Neither literally or figuratively. Lehman/That's a relief. Pfab/Bad choice of words. Wilburn/Do you have the tools you need to do this? Watson/Yes except we would like, you know often, it's just like in a name clearing hearing, when we heard what the officer had to say in that particular hearing we understood the situation a whole lot more, we understood the guidelines that he was operating under and we did not sustain that complaint whereas before we were leaning towards sustaining the complaint. It's helpful for us to see the whole picture, and part of that whole picture is to see the transcripts of interviews including of the officer. We feel hampered by not having that, understanding that if the officer if he feels that there's something in there that is not in his best interest he has the right or she has the fight to say no I don't want them to see that. That's OK, but as long as it's an individual decision I guess we can live with that. O'Donnell/John can you recall offhand how many complaints you had the first year? Watson/Well I had that data fight here, I didn't include it, it was, we have a calendar year and a fiscal year, so I'm, Sandy do you have that also? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 11 Bauer/Calendar year (can't hear). Lehman/You need to speak in the microphone. Watson/Oh I remember it, it was 7, we were started in September of 97, we had 7 by the end of that year, in 1998 we had 20, in 1999 1 think it was down to about 10, and we've had one this year so far, calendar year. O'Donnell/So you've had one complaint this year. Watson/One complaint so far this year. O'Donnell/In the past you've done some neighborhood forums. When was the last time you've done that? Watson/About, it was at the neighborhood center I believe about a year ago. O'Donnell/So that last one that I attended. Do you, do you see any good that came out of this neighborhood forum over there, did you, did we have anything positive on that John? Watson/I think we have different opinions about that amongst the Board. I, that particular one was not real constructive but we've had some that I think were really helpful to us. O'Donnell/Because that was my assessment of that forum there. Watson/No that one had it's problems. Vanderhoef/What do you gain from some of those? What do you think you have gained from some of your forums? Watson/Well an understanding of what the community believes what the police conduct should be, what some of those standards that we're suppose to understand are. We're not sure how to get that information except go out and ask people for it. So that' g really just, part of what we felt wag our role is to try to ascertain what the community standards for police conduct were. Vanderhoef/And were you surprised by anything? Watson/Oh yea, lots of things. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 12 Champion/That' s hard to establish because I really like policeman unless they did something wrong then I might not like them. Lehman/File a complaint. Steven. Watson/We understand like you do first of all that people that come to those have something to say one way or another, and that we're not getting you know, it's not a poll of the whole community, we understand that. Kanner/On mediation, I've got a couple things. Mediation it's between an individual and a police officer were in affect where it might be needed in essence a mediation between the individual and the police department policy and it seems the way we deal with that is evaluation of the overall performances and so it, we haven't seen that and so I would ask you to comment on that and it appears that we need more tools out there to do that, to make sure that it's not the policy that are out there versus the individuals. And then I also wanted to ask, again it seems that the greatest interaction between police and citizens of Iowa City is perhaps those arrested for underage drinking and college student ages and I'm wondering if we have enough output into that community to let people know about the Police Citizen Review Board and perhaps other targeted communities within Iowa City, that we have to make more of an effort a proactive effort to get the word out, I think the community forum was probably one way to do that, maybe we need to look at other tools to make sure that those people feel that they can come to the board. And the other question and concern is we try to look at our boards in terms of male and female and sometimes in terms of ethnic and racial makeup and are we doing that enough for the Police Citizen Review Board? That especially if we have it seems like over 25 percent of the complaints are from minority population, do we have minority representation on the Police Citizen Review Board. Is that something that we can be more proactive in? So I throw those things out to you. Lehman/We did, when we applied the initial Board, we appointed a person of color and found out and after the appointment was made the person did not live in the city of Iowa City and that was a, and that was one of the concerns. I think they had 40, 44 or 45 people apply for that first Board and it probably got more scrutiny than any appointments we've ever made. I think that's a valid point but as your well aware, appointments can only be made from those people who apply. Kanner/Well maybe the City along with the Board as part of their charter has to be proactive in going out into those neighborhoods and say we want folks to serve on the board, look at serving on the board and applying for it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 13 Lehman/That can. Vanderhoef/We're just reaching that time now where some of those terms are starting to turn over and so we haven't had that opportunity really except this one replacement that was an unexpired term. And here again we did not have a person of color apply. Watson/And there was some effort on the part of Board Members and some Council Members to try to encourage minority applications. Vanderhoef/Yes, I know I worked at it. Farrant/I think it's becoming known too that this is a very labor intensive undertaking and a lot of my colleagues of color are people who are sought after to do lots of things because we have minority minority in this town and. Wilburn/There's only a few of us. Farrant/Truly it's very hard, I mean I've drummed up the trade among people where I work and they've come to know this is going to be a lot of work and to be honest you know, you have to make your choices. So I don't disagree with at all I just think it's a challenge. Kanner/Well maybe we have to look at things like child care if that would help or other tools that might be of help to encourage people. There are tools that we can look into. Farrant/Something for you to look at. Watson/If I could address the first two parts of your question. One had to do with policy, we do have copies of the general orders that constitute a policy under which the department operates and we do refer to those sometimes and have made comments about policies, I don't know, I don't think mediation on a policy really probably, we comment about policy if we have a thought about it if it should be changed, that's not been too often, but we have done that. Outreach to students, we did hold one of our forums at the Newman Center and really targeted students with our flyers and our press releases and advertisements I think and had very few students attend that. Pfab/What is your policy as you look out into the future, of having forums? Watson/Well we're planning one this year. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 14 Pfab/So one a year is what your? Watson/I think so. You know we haven't been in a great hurry, we had three in fairly quick succession, I think they had mixed reviews, I think you know, I think we want to figure out how we want to do the next one and where and when and so on. Pfab/But what I'm asking is just because you had a flop so to speak or kind of one against the grain that doesn't both discourage you from doing anymore? Watson/No I don't think so, I think we intend to have another. We haven't scheduled one but it's in our plan to hold one. Vanderhoef/Are you going to try and target a subject matter for the forum so that there's an education piece that goes along with public time for them to give you input? Watson/We've talked about doing that but we haven't really discussed the format yet for the next forum so we have talked about the possibility of doing that. Lehman/You know it seems to me that the more the PCRB is able to work with the police department and obviously the indication since an officer is there at meetings, it's best because you can ask questions and get immediate answers. To me the PCRB and the police department really need, they need to kind of be hand in glove if they're going to be, you could provide some real help to those folks I think, you've got suggestive ideas but in order to do that there has to be that relationship like your talking about at the meeting where you have an officer there. And I'm not sure that, you can talk to the chief, but I'm not so sure that they couldn't be of some help in forums too. Watson/Well we had the chief at the last one, as a matter of fact he was the speaker at the last one. Lehman/And I think that's, well, I think that's great PR for the police department and for the board. Kanner/I have a question for Eleanor. Eleanor in chapter 8 it talks about how there are certain things you can't compel police officers to do before the commission because of the constitutional law but it also, it says there are certain things you can do as an employee that I would assume that would have to be negotiated, settlement between the City and the union. Are there ways to legally, if we were to negotiate in a union contract to compel police officer's to take part of the process or suffer some sort of employment setback some way? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 15 Dilkes/The police chief has the authority to compel an officer to talk to him under threat of termination or other discipline because the police chief has the right by state code to meet out discipline. And that state code, the civil service chapter of the code pretty much occupies the field when it comes to hiring and firing of police officers so the short answer is no. Kanner/Could there be a scenario where the commission perhaps does not discipline an officer but could recommend to the police chief as part of their report possible discipline because of officers not appearing? Watson/We can't according to the code. Dilkes/No. Watson/We can not recommend discipline. Kanner/OK because when I saw in here it said, chief is in charge of discipline under state code but I didn't see where it said about recommendations. Champion/Well the officer. Dilkes/Well certainly if you're suggesting a recommendation that would somehow affect their employment if it's not, I mean that's, no, that's not a possibility. But I think the problem you've got is with state law and we're going to have, I think if we enter that area at all we're going to have some big preemption issues. Pfab/I'll make a statement and in very much support of what you're doing and that' s on a global basis after you watch the news ofwhat's going on presently in Illinois with the prison terms and California, those, it's possible for human beings that are police officers to do wrong and I think this is a good way to help them realize that immediately there is a way to do that and it also allows the public a chance to say you know I'm wrong, I, there is a way for me to go and it's, it relieves the pressure on, pressure cooker relationship so that's, it's you, it looks like your doing a good job in at least attempting to do a good in providing that service and I commend you. Watson/Thank you. Lehman/Other Council comments. As far as the sunset clause is concerned, that is obviously a decision that has to be made this September, I don't, or a year from this September. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 16 Watson/Well before August 1 of next year. Champion/A year from now though. Watson/We would like to know how your going to make your decision. How your going to make your decision. What your going to base your decision on. What criteria? Lehman/Well we haven't talked about that, we've never talked about the criteria. Pfab/We should be. O'Donnell/That would be a good thing to put on a future work session. Lehman/You know you've got to be really careful because that's a really really good question. How do you determine, obviously I would assume the thoroughness of your investigations, I don't think anybody can fault those, you've done I think a very good job. There certainly has been no dereliction of duty when it comes to putting in the hours. I guess personally I would I'd be interested in the cooperation between the police department and the PCRB. I think you hit it on the head in your note that there's a certain, I don't like to use the word sensitive, there's a certain feeling between the Council and the PCRB which I think is as it should be because we would like you folks to be autonomous as you can possibly be and not take direction from anybody sitting around here. If you do you lose your effectiveness, we were very careful in selecting that group of folks to start with. That is something I suppose that we would, yea there needs to be some criteria. Obviously, I shouldn't say obviously, it's obvious to me, probably the most important criteria is the level of comfort within the community knowing that there is a board that reinforces the, our own, we happen to feel we have a very good police department, I think you feel the same way and based on the complaints has really proven that we've got a wonderful police department and very professional folks. And I think there's a group in the community just, a level of comfort with the police is just better knowing that someone is there to verify what the chief has found, and in most cases that's what's exactly what happened so, to me that would probably be the biggest criteria in evaluating whether or not the PCRB continues is that level of comfort within the community. What it does for our police department and I think it does a great deal for us, I think you guys have. If you want to look at the complaints, the police department has come out very good. Watson/Are you suggesting we're the cause of that? I don't think (all talking... laughing) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 17 Lehman/No, no, no, I don't, I don't think your the cause of that but I do believe that credibility is there because your there, we have, and those of us who are closer to the police or whatever, I don't think I've ever dealt, doubted the credibility, there are people in the public who do. They doubt us. Watson/And they doubt us too. I mean we have negative (can't hear). Champion/Right. (All talking) Wilburn/The part that your not referring to though is it's also not only to affirm what law enforcement is doing well but in instances and hopefully rare where there is something wrong because that's a local comfort for us the public too because I mean don't look at law enforcement any different from the general public, there's, nor any other business, there's people doing what they're suppose to do and there' s people who may not in any, you know we're people, we're human beings and that' s the safety net that it provides I think. Farrant/And we really want that level of attention to be there or we're not doing our work, I mean this is not a cheerleading group for any faction in the community, on the other hand I think as Emie has said it does review that problems are solvable, at least the ones that have come to our attention, but I think the attention is (can't hear). Lehman/Healthy. Farrant/(can't hear). Vanderhoef/The number of complaints is one of the things, the seriousness of the complaints that are sustained will be something else to look at. Looking to see where the complaints are as a group of complaints, whether they're all excessive use of force or what those are and what the perceptions are of those. Those are the kinds of specific criteria that I would be looking at and the things that Ernie is talking about also because yes there's, a safety net there in what you folks are doing and I acknowledge that. Whether it is that much different than whether you were not there that would be the question to answer. Lehman/Other Council comments or Board comments. Thank you folks, appreciate it. Planning & Zoning Matters This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 18 Franklin/OK first three items are setting public hearings. A. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR MAY 16 ON AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART 6, AN 8.69 ACRE, 35-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION WITH ONE OUTLOT FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT WINTERGREEN DRIVE, WEST OF SOUTH JAMIE LANE. (REZ00-0010/SUB00-0009) Franklin/The first one is for an OPDH for Village Green South Part 6, a 35-Iot subdivision which is West and South of what we're going to be look at tonight. B. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR MAY 16 ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 2.01 ACRES LOCATED NOTED OF WASHINGTON STREET AND EAST OF GREEN MOUNTAIN DRIVE FROM PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-8) TO LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-5), (REZ00-0008) Franklin/Next is setting a public heating for May 16 on the rezoning on approximately 2 acres on Green Mountain north of Washington, this is part of the Arbor Hill Development off of Washington for some single family lots. C. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR MAY 16 ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE 54 ACRES FROM PUBLIC/INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL (P/C1) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY-PUBLIC (OSA-P) AND FOR APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY SENSITIVE AREAS DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR PROPERTY LOCATED IN THE NORTH PART OF THE AIRPORT PROPERTY, WEST OF RIVERSIDE DRIVE. (REZ99- 0001) Franklin/And then Item C is setting a public heating on the 16th for the Sensitive Areas Overlay and the plat for the North Airport Commercial Park. Lehman/That's because of the wetlands? Franklin/The OSA, yes, yes. Wilburn/A couple of the notice signs on Village Green were blown over this weekend. Franklin/Oh really, OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 19 Wilburn/(Can't hear). D. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN AMENDMENT TO ZONING CHAPTER 14-6D-5G1 REGARDING THE NONCONFORMING PROVISIONS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION RESIDENTIAL ZONE (RNC-12). Franklin/Public hearing on Item D on an amendment to the zoning ordinance regarding the nonconforming provisions in the neighborhood conservation residential zone. This is in the RNC-12 zone and it is to remove the January 1, 1993 date and to make this more genetic in terms of when we're zoning something RNC-12. It will be at the time of the rezoning that conforming uses are carded over. E. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-5) AND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) AND APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN PARTS 18-20, A 19.6-ACRE, 10- LOT, 63-UNIT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT WITH ONE OUTLOT LOCATED SOUTH OF VILLAGE ROAD AND WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. (REZ00-0002) Franklin/Item E, F, and G are all related and this is part of the Village Green Development and it relates to an extension of the Wellington Condominiums. And basically what's happening here is that this property which was part of Village Green South is being purchased by the developers of Village Green from Glasgow. (END OF 00-52, SIDE 1) Franklin/Company which is Jim Glasgow and some body else. So what we're going to see tonight is the plan for this area, the vacation of Jamie Lane and the replating of Village Green South Part 5. The first part is the Wellington Condominiums. Pfab/I have a question, where is Jamie Lane (can't hear)? Franklin/Right here. Pfab/That's going to be vacated? Franklin/Just the top part, didn't mean to eat that microphone there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 20 Lehman/No comment. Franklin/OK see here this part of Jamie Lane that was originally was Village Green South going to extend through is being vacated and will be made into this cul de sac. The Wellington Condominiums which is the pattern that has been developing along Village Road will be continued down along this street here, Winter Green Drive and so these are going to be Wellington Condominiums, much like the ones you've seen developed up here and then this is the water, the pond area that will serve these condominiums in here. This will develop 60 condo's and 3 single family lots over here on Wintergreen. Two of the issues that were connected with this were the conveyance of outlot B from Village Green partners or from the City to Village Green Parmers. This was something that was dedicated as part of the original platting of this area when there was going to be a different development to the south and this zoning the ultimate approval of the zoning is dependent upon conveyance of that outlot B back to the City, or I'm sorry back to Village Green Partners. Pfab/Can you tell me where that particular outlot is? Franklin/It's right in there. Pfab/Right in there. Franklin/Yea, see originally there was going, actually I think I have the original plan here. Originally this was going to be single family detached housing in here and right along here was a walkway and stream corridor. With the new development this all becomes the detention pond and the condominiums are built in this area so it takes out that outlot and makes it part of the condominium development. Pfab/The reason that the City is willing to give it up is it need that was originally there is the original plot is no longer, that need has disappeared? Franklin/That's correct yea, and it's such a small piece that there wasn't any reason for Parks and Recreation to want to keep it. Now that item is Item 14 on your agenda and it's setting the public heating for the 16th so that can all occur such that it will be done by the time your ready to do the third reading on the plan development. We're still working on getting this temporary construction easement agreement, it's the two attorney's for Village Green Parmers and the neighbors to the west, but we also expect to have that by the last consideration, if we don't we'll just hold up on that last consideration so we think you can proceed with this assuming you don't have any other major issues with it and we'll make sure that easement agreement is in hand before you do your pass and adopt on this one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 21 Vanderhoef/Karin as I read it it talked about these are private streets in there rather than public streets. Franklin/Right, just with as all, now not all of them are private streets, it's these orange ones, those are the private streets, just like on all of the condominiums on this development as you go into it and it's the drive or the street that is used to approach the driveways. This is a public street as is this. Vanderhoef/And what are the widths of the public streets? Franklin/28 feet. Vanderhoef/OK I guess you were talking about the 22 feet. Franklin/That's for the private ones. Vanderhoef/The private ones, that's what I was double checking on. OK so when they have the private streets like that and these are condominiums then that garbage and street cleaning and all of that is from the condo association not from the City? Franklin/Right, right. Vanderhoef/OK. Franklin/Irvin. Pfab/I was going to ask what was the reason that there private streets? Franklin/Well part of that was to enable them to have a lesser standard that is be narrower, our standards require 28 feet for a local street. Pfab/In other words need for as heavy a street didn't appear to be there. Franklin/No it's very limited number of units that are on each of these little eyebrows so. Pfab/And the fire department and the police. Franklin/They've gone through all of this, there's no problem with it, yea. I mean it is not exactly the same but very similar to all of the other condominiums that are already up there and this will be the end of the Wellington Condominiums. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 22 Lehman/Are those 25 foot streets? Franklin/22 on the. Lehman/Private streets. Franklin/Those yes, and that's something actually in our subdivision code you can in certain circumstances have 22 foot wide streets if you have six parking spaces on your lot, these don't, this is why this is an OPDH and it's also because it's condominiums and not single family detached. Lehman/Well if it's any help to Council Wylde Green Road I believe is 25 feet, it may be a little narrower. That street carried city buses, cement trucks, traffic, whatever for years and years and years and years, it does a pretty good job. I realize our standard is 28 feet. Franklin/But we've got a lot of 25 foot wide streets. Lehman/Right, and they do work very very well. Well it's a matter of fact, you don't have problems with speeding. Franklin/It depends on how you define work. Vanderhoef/Yes. Lehman/If you want cars to go 50 miles an hour your fight you don't want to do that. Franklin/That' s right. Champion/Look how much concrete we can save. Kanner/Dee, what it just doesn't, the wear and tear your saying just doesn't hold up, it doesn't. Lehman/Width doesn't have anything to do with that. Kanner/No but Dee what were you saying some of the negative things with the narrow streets. Vanderhoef/Well the narrow streets when there is street parking there it's real difficult to meet a bus or anything else in there, it's almost like with some vehicles we have This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 23 to sort of weave in and out of parked cars to make that happen or people perceive it that way. Lehman/It slows it up. Vanderhoef/It's very difficult. Champion/(can't hear) to save. Vanderhoef/Well the whole point is for me the street is labeled as a 25 mile an hour street and if you are forced to go 15 miles an hour to meet certain vehicles maybe that is not in the best interest of moving traffic. Pfab/I would imagine the homeowners association will appreciate the narrowness of them when it comes to storm water, paying the bill for storm water treatment, it's not much less concrete than (can't hear). F. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) PLAN, AND APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART 5, A RESUBDIVISION OF A PORTION OF VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART 3A, A 12-LOT, 3.33-ACRE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT LOCATED AT WINTERGREEN DRIVE WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. (REZ00-0009) Franklin/OK the next item is Village Green South Part 5 which is a 12-1ot subdivision. And basically this is the redesign of Village Green South to accommodate the change that is occurring as a consequence of the purchase so that the condominiums can continue. This also is dependent upon a conveyance of North Jamie Lane which another item on your agenda, it's item, a vacation of it is Item G, the next item, and then it's Item 13 is setting the public heating for May 16 on the conveyance of North Jamie Lane. G. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE VACATING THE NORTHERNMOST PORTION OF NORTH JAMIE LANE, LOCATED WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. (VAC00-0003) Franklin/So I think we hit Item G to there is everybody is clear on that. Pfab/OK. Franklin/OK so G is the vacation of North Jamie, which is just that little spit. OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 24 Lehman/OK. Kanner/I like that terminology. H. AN UNDEVELOPED PORTION OF WOOLF AVENUE FROM MCLEAN STREET SOUTH FOR A DISTANCE OF 240 FEET. (VAC97-0002) Franklin/OK Item H is the vacation of Woolf Avenue. Pfab/It's going to be pretty long tonight. Franklin/Yes. Pfab/How, what was the way the transaction or the cost of the streets to the city how are they determined? How are those numbers arrived at? Dilkes/When outlot B was dedicated we had an appraisal, there was an appraisal done and so we took that figure and we added inflation factor to it. And so in that case we actually had an appraisal to go by so we didn't back up to assessment. Pfab/But what, there was also two vacations. Dilkes/Well and that the Jamie Lane is so close to the outlot B we used the appraisal on that one to set the value. Pfab/OK. Franklin/OK Item is the vacation of Woolf Avenue, we have met with the three abutting property owners and are coming to an agreement on that disposition, what we would suggest is that you go ahead and close the public heating and proceed with this vacation. We'll hold up that final pass and adopt until all the disposition is in line but it's just a matter tight now defining where the easements are for the storm sewer and the sanitary sewer but what' s going to happen is of that tight of way it will be split in half such that one half of that goes to the Syrops and the other half will be divided between the McGurks and Carolyn, who's last name I forget. Lehman/Somebody else. Franklin/Corson I think. So we're working that out. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 25 Pfab/One question, is there agreement at least among the neighbors as it's proceeding now? Franklin/Yes there is. Kanner/I have something for Council to discuss about this. To me this is a great asset in the neighborhood, it's really pretty going through and both of the parties have said they're not going to build on it, I'd like us to consider putting a clause when we vacate it that no building will take place on there. I don't think they're going to but I don't think they would mind if we put that in there just to make sure that down the road that's not filled in. Lehman/I think there's an easement that would prohibit building anyway. Franklin/It's not an easement over the entire right of way because the Syrops would like to plant some trees which if we had a sanitary sewer or a storm sewer easement they wouldn't be able to do that. So there won't be an easement over the entire thing, I don't think that any of the parties would have an objection to that kind of restriction. Lehman/Could you find that out by tomorrow night? Franklin/Yes. Pfab/I certainly would support your point of view because I think it's an unusual piece of ground for that neighborhood and it's an asset if they can (can't hear). Franklin/What I think what we want to do is we want to work that into the disposition. Dilkes/Yea we don't need to know that by tomorrow night, it would be part of the disposition. Lehman/Right, right, we can find that out during the process. Champion/If they want. Lehman/OK. O'Donnell/We are talking Karin about the claim, how many acres is that have, the one area that of concern? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 26 Franklin/Well that' s another thing we were trying to figure out was exactly how wide this thing is so I can't tell you exactly what the square footage is, I don't think it's into acres. It would be 300. Lehman/240 feet. Franklin/240 feet by 40 or 50 feet. O'Donnell/But the concem is somebody would go into that wooded ravine there and develop it. Franklin/You could, well. Lehman/You can't fill it. Franklin/Well I think the concern, and all we could restrict would be building on the right of way that we are going to dispose of. When we say the wooded ravine, the wooded ravine goes into the McGurk property and the other property to the west. And if they wish to develop that at some point, they could and there' s nothing that we could do to stop them, it's zoned RS-5, you could put a single family house in there. The present owner's have absolutely no intention of doing that. But there isn't anything to preclude them from doing that, someone at some time in the future. O'Donnell/OK. Vanderhoef/Do you have a map that shows where the connection is then from the side street, from the other street? Franklin/I think I do. Well no, all I've got is a, I've got a location map, I'm not sure this is going to. See this is Woolf and this is not paved in here to City standards and then this is all just wild you know wild. This is where an old fight of way of Woolf Avenue that comes up in here that was vacated so the property lines of these two property come to about the center of it. Here's McLean which would give this property access and frontage if they ever wish to develop it and then this property has access, and actually the other one does too from Lee so what we're talking about restricting is just development on the shaded area. That' s all we control. Vanderhoef/But it doesn't land lock anything. Franklin/No. No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 27 O'Donnell/So as far as development though there would be such a small portion there than the vacated property. You're talking just a. Franklin/It would be highly tinlikely that anybody would put anything there, maybe a shed but. Pfab/The only thing you could maybe possibly combine it with something right? Franklin/Well yea, I mean half of this would be combined with the, these are three lots here and it could be combined with that. Pfab/And maybe develop something on that. Franklin/I suppose maybe conceivably you could, you'd have enough square footage, it's a little rough. Pfab/OK. Franklin/And you'd have to get frontage, you could, maybe get one other house there. Pfab/I think the idea of a deed restriction would be a great idea. Dilkes/I'm sorry are there four of you who want to pursue the deed restriction? Pfab/Pardon. Dilkes/Are there four of you who want to pursue the deed restriction? Lehman/I guess I'd like to hear the response of the folks that are involved before I indicated that I did. Dilkes/OK. I. TITLE 14, CHAPTER 5, BUILDING AND HOUSING, ARTICLE H, SITE PLAN REVIEW, BY ADOPTING CENTRAL PLANNING DISTRICT MULTI- FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DESIGN STANDARDS AND RELATED AMENDMENTS TO TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING, ARTICLE A, ZONING TITLE, PURPOSE AND SCOPE. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 28 Franklin/OK the next item is your first consideration on the in~ll design standards and the amendment to the zoning chapter which basically references the infill design standards so we've gone over that. J. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING, ARTICLE 0, SIGN REGULATIONS, TO ALLOW BANNER SIGNS IN CERTAIN COMMERCIAL ZONES UNDER SOME CONDITIONS. (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin/Item J is the first consideration on the banner sign amendment. K. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM LOW DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM-12) TO MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-8) FOR PROPERTY SOUTH OF BURLINGTON STREET ALONG THE 300-600 BLOCKS OF GOVERNOR STREET AND A PORTION OF THE 800-900 BLOCKS OF BOWERY STREET. (REZ00-0007) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin/Item K is the rezoning of Governor and with the close of the public heating last time an extraordinary majority vote is not required on the rezoning of Governor to RNC-12. If you were to consider the rezoning to RS-8 it would require an extraordinary majority vote. Lehman/It would require, this would require an amendment, changing from RS-8 to RNC? Franklin/Right. You have before you an application from the people who made the application to go from RM-12 to RS-8. You have also considered throughout your deliberation RM- 12 to RNC- 12. Lehman/We could amend it if we choose to without, we don't have to vote on the RS-8 it could be amended to an RNC-12? Franklin/What the Planning & Zoning Commission did is they voted down the RS-8. Lehman/OK. Franklin/And then they voted in favor of an RNC-12 but they were making a recommendation. Dilkes/I think that's probably a good procedure since there's been an application for RS- 8. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 29 Lehman/Would it be appropriate to, should we choose not to approve the RS-8 to vote that down and then on our own motion to an RNC-12? Dilkes/Both those things are before you so yes. Lehman/OK, thank you. Kanner/So we have to put on the agenda that we're going to be voting on RNC-12, well that's already on the agenda but we'd have to put on RNC-12. Lehman/We have to, I think I'm heating that we recommend that we, if we defeat RS-8 then a some person on the Council can make the motion to rezone it to RNC-12. Dilkes/Yes. Vanderhoef/Would you draw up one for us? Franklin/You have an ordinance, I think you have three. Dilkes/I think you have both the ordinances here. Franklin/Yea. Vanderhoef/Not for the. Karr/You don't have them on the agenda, you have them in the packet however, you have the option, it's in there. Dilkes/All you would have to do is change RS-8 to RNC-12 in this consider an ordinance changing by motion. Wilburn/So Emie would, but the ordinance, someone need to. Lehman/We need to vote on it. Wilburn/To second it then someone could amend it to substitute RNC-12 for. Champion/Or Ernie would just do that consider an ordinance changing a zoning to RNC~ 12, the first vote would be. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 30 Dilkes/Somebody can make a motion to consider an ordinance changing a zoning to RS- 8, then you'll vote on that, ifthat's defeated then you can make a motion to consider an ordinance changing the zoning to RNC-12. Lehman/I guess my question is do I need a motion from someone at that point? Dilkes/Yes. Franklin/Yes. Lehman/Someone, OK, so it doesn't come from me it comes from someone else. Vanderhoef/Rather than, OK. Lehman/All fight, we've got it. Vanderhoef/I can do that. Lehman/All fight. Franklin/OK. O'Donnell/I have confidence in you. L. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM LOW DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM-12) TO NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION RESIDENTIAL (RNC- 12) FOR PROPERTY SOUTH OF BURLINGTON STREET ALONG THE 300-600 BLOCKS OF LUCAS STREET AND A PORTION OF THE 700-800 BLOCKS OF BOWERY STREET. (REZ00-00011) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin/Item L then is the rezoning on Lucas Street, that's from RM-12 to RNC-12 and that will require an extraordinary majority vote 6 out of 7. Lehman/OK. M. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING, TO ALLOW WIDE-BASE FREESTANDING SIGNS IN SOME COMMERCIAL ZONES UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/Item M is second consideration on the wide based free standing signs. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 31 N. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM PLANNED HIGH DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (PRM) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY (OSA-PRM) FOR .48 ACRES LOCATED AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF PRENTISS AND LINN STREETS. (REZ00- 0004) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/N second consideration on the sensitive areas overly for the apartment building on Prentiss and Linn. O. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING, TO ALLOW MASONRY WALL SIGNS IN THE GENERAL INDUSTRIAL (I-1), HEAVY INDUSTRIAL (I-2), OFFICE RESEARCH PARK (ORP) AND RESEARCH DEVELOPMENT PART (RDP) ZONES. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/O second consideration on the masonry wall signs in industrial and office research park zones. P. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING, TO ALLOW OVERNIGHT BOARDING OF ANIMALS WITHIN SMALL ANIMAL CLINICS IN THE COMMERCIAL OFFICE (CO-l) ZONE. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/P second consideration on boarding animals in small animal clinics. Q. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS~8) TO LOW DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM-12), FOR 0.82 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED ALONG THE WEST SIDE OF BENTON COURT, NORTH OF BENTON STREET (OAKNOLL). (REZ00-0001) (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Q pass and adopt on the Oaknoll rezoning. R. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST ESCROW AGREEMENT FOR LOUIS CONDOMINIUMS, IOWA CITY, IOWA. Franklin/Item R, we'll let you know tomorrow night. Do we have anything? Dilkes/(can't hear) not yet. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 32 Lehman/R and S go together? Franklin/Pardon me. Lehman/R and S go together? Franklin/Yes they do. If we do one we do them both and we don't do one or the neither of them. Franklin/That's right. Lehman/OK so they are in limbo. Franklin/Right. Pfab/They will not come up tomorrow night? Franklin/Pardon me. Pfab/They will or will not come up tomorrow night? Franklin/They will come up I just can't tell you until tomorrow night whether we'll have the escrow agreement signed or not, if it is not then we need to defer R and S again. And I'll just have to tell you that tomorrow night or. S. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY (OSA-8) CONDITIONAL ZONING AGREEMENT TO ALLOW A DRIVEWAY ACCESS ONTO FOSTER ROAD FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 500 FOSTER ROAD. (REZ99-0016) (PASS AND ADOPT) Item I. Vanderhoef/Karin we whipped past the infill (ordinance). Franklin/Oh yea. Vanderhoef/And I spoke to you one Friday about the zoning and a concem that I have about infill and I'm not clear whether what I was talking to you about meaning the footprint and the paving whether that would be something that would be considered with the infill ordinance or whether it is something that would be considered in the zoning. Franklin/The zoning. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 33 Vanderhoef/It would be in zoning and so it would mean a change in what RNC-12. Franklin/Yea I think, what Dee is talking about is the possibility of amending the zoning ordinance to have a lot coverage requirement that would include both the building and the parking lot. Right now the lot coverage pertains to building only, and this is getting at lot coverage peaaining to impervious surface basically. Champion/You don't any (can't hear). Franklin/Right, yea. We'll look at that as a zoning change and whether it's just RNC-12 or it's RM-12 too, it will be something we'll have to look at. Vanderhoef/OK. Thank you. Agenda Items 1). Atkins/Emie I have one for you under the consent calendar, Item 4 F(18a), the tail end of page 3 where you have parking restrictions. First one, Modification to Allow On-Street Parking to be Permitted on the Noah Side of Dodge Street Court. The bottom line is we think we have a little neighborhood feud developing, Tower Court all over again. Lehman/Oh boy. Atkins/Jeff is wearing an extra hat as traffic engineering planner in an acting capacity and he'll do his best to answer the questions for you but you may have received some phone calls on this thing. Lehman/Are you saying this may come off the consent thing or just? Atkins/Well there is a proposal put foah to restrict parking, you simply, I want you to know that there are others that have very strong feelings just the opposite, you need to have that heads up. Davids0n/Do you have any questions about it or? Lehman/I haven't heard anything about it. Pfab/Can you give us some background on what's going on? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 34 Davidson/Yea just real quickly, Tower Court is off of Conklin the road into Hickory Hill Park from the noah. Atkins/North Dodge Street not Tower Coua. Davidson/And some of you, I can't remember if any of you were on the Council back then but several years ago, or.just a few years ago, we had a request from Mr. Glasgow to build three duplexes on that road and it's a relatively unimproved road, it's a chip seal, it doesn't have curb and gutter or anything like that and the decision was made at that time to allow those three duplexes up there because the road doesn't go anywhere, it's never going to go anywhere and it was considered to be a reasonable thing. The Planning & Zoning Commission at that time because of the unimproved type of road recommended that there be no parking on it on either side at that time and you concurred with that at the time and the road was posted no parking. What happened was over a year ago city crews went out and re-chip sealed the road and they never put the no parking signs back up and for quite some time all of a sudden people starting parking on the street. Well I got a call several months later from somebody who said isn't there suppose to be no parking on this street, and I looked and sure enough it's suppose to be no parking. And so I called the streets crews, I had them put the signs back up. Well by that time people had been in custom to parking out there on one side of it so I had two people specifically request that we according to the procedure we typically use for evaluating these things to determine whether or not on-street parking could be permitted. So we went through that procedure, we went up and considered the dynamics of all the traffic up there, had the fire chief go up and take a look and make sure we could get our largest emergency vehicle in and out, the determination was made that basically we did not care whether or not on-street parking was allowed on one side or not. So what we do in this type of a situation is we in the area that's being under consideration for having or not having on- street parking we would leave it up to a survey of the neighbors because basically it's there for their convenience or not however they want it. We did a neighborhood survey, once again of just the area that was proposed which is basically the area fight off of Conklin where the new duplexes are and by a 5-3 vote they decided they wanted to have on-street parking on the north side of the street. There has been some unhappiness about this from people who live further down and I think maybe there's some of a, some of them also seem to have some strong feelings about those duplexes even being there. They are unhappy about it, a couple of them were not even surveyed because they are so far out of the area that down on their part of the street you can park on either side of the street, it gets to be quite unimproved down in there. At any rate some of those folks are unhappy about this and may have expressed some of their feelings to you. I did want to indicate to you we have followed the procedure we follow all over town, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 35 once in a while these flair up into something more than we would like to be and it appears this one has. Champion/Well I did get a long e-mail about it today and I guess I'm not sure where this road is and I'd like to drive over to it tomorrow. Where is this? Davidson/It's fight off of, you, Conklin is the intersection opposite of the North Dodge HyVee, where if you go down you enter, it's right along St. Joseph's Cemetery and it's the first left fight there. Vanderhoef/Is this the one that goes on out into that unimproved area and there was at the time that we talked about it there was a SEATS van that was always going down in there to pick up someone. Davidson/I don't recall, is that fight? Champion/Yea. Davidson/OK I don't recall that, I had heard about the SEATS van being across the street. Yea, this road is about a block or two long and the east-west portion of it is in fairly good condition, it has just been re-chip sealed and it's a fairly decent street, it was widened a little bit when we did then. It then turns, and there's a north-south part of it that's very unimproved, it's gravel and then almost goes to kind of dirt and terminates in somebody's dfiveway down there. A couple of those folks are the ones that are not pleased about this other portion of it having but I didn't want to, there were 9 people who have property directly adjacent to the part that was under consideration and all of those people were surveyed, and that's once again the procedure that we follow, we make a determination whether or not it meets our safety requirements, if it does we leave it up to the adjacent neighborhood. Champion/Well I did read that e-mail I was going to check it out tomorrow. But one of the problems was and I don't, well I could, but I can't on a phone line, but evidently there is a SEATS van that goes down there, and there's somebody in a wheel chair. Davidson/Right. Champion/Who thinks she won't be able to see around the comer ifthere's cars or I mean maybe we can look at that, maybe there needs to, is there (can't hear)? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 36 Davidson/Yea in response to that Connie we had the fire chief check it out with the respect to the ladder truck and I guess I'm under the impression that if we can get a large fire apparatus in and out of there probably any other type of vehicle can get in and out of there. I mean it is an unimproved street but the fire chief felt OK about it. Champion/OK. Kanner/What's the width of the street? Davidson/I believe it's 18 feet wide. Rick does that sound about right? Rick Fosse/Yes. Davidson/OK. Lehman/OK, so we have a heads up. 2). Vanderhoef/While your there I just had a question about elimination about parking in the ramp from 6-10. This came about because of a request. Davidson/A request from the Downtown Association and Madison Realty the owners of Old Capital Center. Vanderhoef/Interesting. Davidson/And it was at the mall's request that we originally did it in the first place too. Lehman/We aren't going to throw the signs away aren't we? Davidson/No I think their mostly. Vanderhoef/Well we have to paint them up. Davidson/Their mostly stencils, we'll be painting them out. Vanderhoef/I'm concerned about making that switch. Atkins/Don't have to. Davidson/I think there has, I think one of the issues Dee at least that I've been informed of is that some of the mall stores now open and close at various times rather than This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 37 all at the same time typically which you find in a mall I guess. And some of the stores apparently open prior to 10:00 when the (can't hear) goes into affect. Lehman/Osco's. Davidson/Is Osco one Ernie, and then I think, their some of the ones that have expressed some concern about their customers not being able to park adjacent to their business. Champion/I can, well you know if they wanted to eliminate that and I mean it has caused a lot of complaints over the years and a lot of people wailing about tickets, on the other hand if you open that up for just anybody to park there it will be filled by downtown workers immediately. And that was the problem with it. Lehman/The employees and students, yea. Vanderhoef/Employees and students. Lehman/Well let me ask you, do you know offhand at 10:00 when parking is allowed at the street levels how many cars are in the ramp, do we have any clue as to how many cars come in? Davidson/Oh at 10:00 in the morning Ernie it's not near being full, there's plenty of room on the upper floors for all those people at that time. Lehman/But are there enough cars that have come in by 10:00 to fill the first three levels? Davidson/Well I think we can at least count on that eventually when the mall gets a little bit more back on their feet which they're all expecting they will when the Penney space is filled up, I think there's, and becomes a little more activity there I think there's every potential that it will Emie, that was what originally led to them requesting it in the first place. Champion/(Can't hear). Vanderhoef/Right to do it at the summer time fight now and then have it all changed over this fall, we've got everybody educated on it right now, to change it. Davidson/Once again, it is, it's not from city staff, it's from the Downtown Association and the mall is who requested it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 38 Vanderhoef/I understand that. Kanner/Could we ask them to come in tomorrow so we can ask them some questions on this? Lehman/It's pretty straight forward. Atkins/Yes. Lehman/I mean we can just plain prefer that that be open for parking. Vanderhoef/But if that's a request from only one and without the store, with new owners and so forth. Davidson/From one, what do you mean Dee? Lehman/There's a lot more than one. Atkins/Madison supports it. Lehman/Downtown Association, Madison Realty and the stores over there all would like to eliminate that restriction and I think short term it probably would be a wonderful idea but long term I don't know. Davidson/And Joe and I did talk about that but if they get a tenant for Penney's and that becomes a key thing you know it's inconvenient obviously I think your aware we put a lot of stencil's in there because initially we didn't have enough and people said I didn't see the sign and so I mean there's a stencil about 3 feet and we can put them back up as need be. Vanderhoef/OK we're talking about three floors, I guess I would. Champion/Maybe it's time to eliminate. Davidson/Which are pretty much the mall floors. Those are the floors opposite the mall. Pfab/I have a question. Vanderhoef/How about going with a compromise and opening up the top most level that connects up with the mall and try one floor and just see what happens, and then watch and see. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 39 Davidson/So we would do just the third floor? Vanderhoef/Yes, to see if that fills up every single day. Davidson/So you'd have a prohibition on the first two floors but not the third floor. Vanderhoef/Yes. Because if that third floor fills up every single day before 10:00 I would presume that we've got all day parkers. Davidson/We are heading into the time of year where the, there' s a lot of University usage of that ramp, I mean we can see that by the holiday times, Engineering building, Lindquist, there are a number of people who park in there. So we're heading into the time of year where we may not have the best judgment of that Dee, fall would be the time when we'd really be able to tell. Vanderhoef/Could we ask them to delay that until Fall? Atkins/You can ask it, this is your call. Davidson/You can ask it. Atkins/You can do anything you want. Vanderhoef/I'm going to put it out, I would like to delay it until Fall. Champion/I agree. Vanderhoef/And then consider doing one floor, the third floor at that time and get a history of it before we just wipe out everything. Champion/Because if they're going to want to, if that mall does make a "recovery" their going to be back asking us to put those stencils back on there. Vanderhoef/Right. Pfab/I guess I have a question, is it broke? Do we have to fix it? Champion/No we don't have to fix it? Lehman/No I think it is kind of broke, it's creating a problem. But Dee if you were to suggest why would you allow parking on, not wait until Fall to allow parking on the third level? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 40 Vanderhoef/Because then we could get a history on just one floor to see whether it fills up with everyone and then we can check to see whether they are all day parkers. Lehman/But your going to get that anyway, if you start it tomorrow morning, you'll still get that data in September and it would, if we were going to do it it would certainly alleviate some of their concerns for the next three months. Vanderhoef/However we have less staff and less students in the next three months. Lehman/I know that's correct. Vanderhoef/That's what I'm. Davidson/I think it's probably reasonable to say Dee that regardless of where you start it as soon as a person hits the first available space that's the space they take. Vanderhoef/Yea, and are those all day parkers? Champion/Sure. Vanderhoef/That's what I have the feeling that they will be and I don't think, I don't think that's what they want. Davidson/Well there are about, I believe 75-80 permits in that ramp, of course that's the largest ramp, it's 825 spaces, but there are also some people who park in there all day and pay the hourly rate. Vanderhoef/You know because the permit people have to go up, is that correct? Davidson/Yea, actually everyone has to go up prior to 10:00 right now. Vanderhoef/Right but if you opened up, the permit people can go the same places. Davidson/Yea I think their encouraged to park in the upper floors but. Champion/Well you can get a ticket if you don't. Lehman/You can lose your permit. Champion/Because one of my kids parked my car and I got a ticket. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 41 Davidson/Oh OK. Lehman/Glad to hear we're doing our work. Champion/Yea we're good at giving tickets. Vanderhoef/So permit have to go up. Davidson/Yea and there aren't very many permits in Capitol Street. Wilburrd You or Connie somebody mentioned just having people trained if you open up something for a week, what period of time are you going to use to assess that? Isn't it going to teach us further add to confusion problem, now we can park there, now we can't? I'm just asking, I mean why bother with the experiment if it's going to add more. Vanderhoef/More confusion. Wilburn/Yea if we decide well OK it doesn't work then the next week the stencils go back up and then there's more. Vanderhoef/And I was just looking at the total work of changing it and maybe we could live with just one more floor rather than all three. Lehman/Well why don't we just change the one floor then. Vanderhoef/OK. Davidson/So you want to just take it off. (All talking). Lehman/Pardon. Pfab/I'm in favor of, let's not go down that road. That's my. Champion/I have to think about what I want to do. O'Donnell/So do I, I'm not sure it would be the best thing. Davidson/What did you say? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 42 Vanderhoef/I've been hauling this all day and. Lehman/All right, think about it, tomorrow night if we can't decide what we want to do we'll take it out of the consent calendar, if not we'll, if there's consensus tomorrow night to do something we'll do it. OK. Other agenda items. Anybody else. Transit Interchange Atkins/That item I'm going to ask that you pull, we tried to put together arrangements with All American Concrete and possibly another vendor to actually get the Transit Interchange project underway by way of change orders. We've not been able to agree on a price, I'd like to bring that back to you in two weeks. Lehman/OK. Arkins/I'd like to get some work done there, we've spoken with Federal Transit Administration and other folks but we just couldn't get it together in time for you. Vanderhoef/Which one is that? Arkins/That's Interchange, Transit Interchange, we were trying to move that project along. Dilkes/It's not on the formal agenda, it's just on the work session. Arkins/Yea. Lehman/OK so we may have something in two weeks. Atkins/I'll have for you in two weeks, we'll have an answer in two weeks. First Avenue Project Arkins/That's an item for discussion on the various issues associated with referendum and projects on I think Items 6 and 7 on the Agenda, Marian. Karr/Yea, Mr. Mayor, if I may just note a supplemental petition was filed today and earlier this evening we were able to certify that 1,066 were valid signatures bringing the total to 2,800. Lehman/OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 43 Karr/So it will be certified sufficient for your deliberation tomorrow evening. Lehman/OK so that means. Karr/Item No. 6. Lehman/Item, pardon. Karr/Item No. 6 is affected by that. O'Donnell/1,006 out of how many? Karr/No, 1,066 additional ones were verified. Mike I don't know, what happened, what I did this time when they came in rather than start at the forward, as you know we were short 752 signatures, what I did was I simply farmed it out and counted if you will the good ones and kept track of it so we did not certify all of the petitions submitted because it was not necessary. Lehman/Hit the 2,500. Karr/We hit the 2,500. Lehman/Now is the appropriate action then to defer Item No. 67 Dilkes/No I gave you a memo that very briefly, you should have in your stack, which very very briefly went through the two scenarios that we could be facing tomorrow. What, the one that we are facing is because Marian has just said that she's going to certify as sufficient is roman numeral one. So what that means is you may not move forward on the First Avenue extension grading project. It is lumped in there with the two other projects Item number 6, Captain Irish Parkway and the First Avenue water main, you may move forward on those. So basically what we will have to do amend Item 6 to remove the First Avenue extension project. Lehman/OK. Dilkes/Now we can do that in one of two ways, you can put it on the floor as it is and amend it or we can just get you a new one by tomorrow night and you can just move that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 44 Lehman/Why don't you get us a new one by tomorrow night, eliminate the First Avenue grading. OK then Item 7 is not affected? Dilkes/Item 7 is not affected. Lehman/So Item 6 will have a new resolution and the public hearing will be on the amended one that eliminates the grading, fight. Dilkes/Right. Lehman/And then at some time probably in two weeks we'll discuss what to do for the motion, the other to, remove the item in the CIP as is suggested by the resolution or to have a public vote, is that correct? Dilkes/Right and you, the vote has to be no later than November, you could choose to have a special election. Lehman/Right. Champion/We do need to do this as soon as possible. Lehman/Well we'll talk about that. Kanner/Yea that' s what I was going to say that we choose a date at our next meeting. Lehman/We'll talk about it at our next meeting. Atkins/So you want it on the work session? Lehman/Put it on the work session. Atkins/Put it on for the 15th. Lehman/Two weeks from today. Atkins/OK. Lehman/OK. Kanner/And also the issue of, I think it's also connected with the issue of the school, the library levy. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 45 Lehman/Well that will be part of the discussion. Atkins/The library probably will have their recommendation to you by the meeting of the 15th and I'm almost positive they'll be suggesting the November election for you. Lehman/So we'll have a lot of factors to consider. Atkins/I know that work is being prepared now. Lehman/OK. By the way, this was yours? Champion/You can have it. Lehman/OK thank you, because we didn't all get one. Champion/Oh you all did, you just. Lehman/No we didn't, I only got two papers, unless it's in. Karr/Look in your envelope. Lehman/Secret envelope. (All talking). Karr/Yea we put them in envelopes so you wouldn't misplace them. Vanderhoef/So we wouldn't read them. Karr/Wouldn't misplace them. Lehman/I believe you, I'll look through this. OK. Pfab/Mr. Mayor. Lehman/Yes. Pfab/So the indications are now that there probably will not be the expense of a special election for either First Avenue or the Library. Champion/Oh we haven't decided that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 46 Lehman/We'll talk about that in two weeks. Two weeks from tonight, we'll discuss that issue. Pfab/But is the library looking like it won't come up until election, is that? Atkins/My understanding Irvin is that they would likely recommend the November general election, that's what I understand (can't hear). Pfab/That's just (can't hear). Atkins/You should have both of them in time by the 15th before you make your decision. I mean you already have this one, the library should be ready for you by then too. Deer Management Lehman/Who will speak to that? Atkins/Lisa is in the audience. Lehman/We have recommends Lisa. (All talking). Pfab/Where are we working from anything particular? O'Donnell/We're just listening. Atkins/We gave you a memo in a packet two weeks ago. Lisa Mollenhauer/April 20th. Atkins/Remember that one we gave it to you ahead of time? Mollenhauer/It was a staff recommendation to reduce the number of committee members and I just wondered if you had any comments if you want to go forward or change that. Lehman/Reducing from what to what? Mollenhauer/13 to 9. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 47 Lehman/And that reduction, am I correct, there will be two staff people who would still serve on the committee who would not be voting? Or is it one? Mollenhauer/Actually we were hoping to have all three city staff people be ex-officio members that would participate but not vote. Lehman/OK so, let me get this straight, if we have 13 people now, and three staff people stay without voting, we would still have, those people are going to be gone, so if we went to 9, we'd have 12 and 3, we'd have actually 15 people serving on the committee, 3 staff people. O'Donnell/No, no. Mollenhauer/We've done some other reductions, can I give you a handout I made out today, I think it will help you. Lehman/My mathematics, I've got to take off my shoe when I get over 10. O'Donnell/Your over 10, that's fight. Atkins/While your counting Ernie, I think Lisa you need to share with them that she did poll all members of the committee to get their opinion of this proposal. O'Donnell/And it was what? Atkins/Oh I'm sorry, I didn't finish did I, viewed that favorably, I'm sorry Mike. Mollenhauer/We have done some other reorganization, for example we used to have 2 non-govemment conservation officer members, reducing that to 1, adding a fringe area resident, a master gardener and a hunter because Ron Fort used to sort of double as our hunter advisor staff person so there's been some, you can't just count the numbers, I mean we're trying to get a more varied representation. The Board of Supervisors position is off also. Vanderhoef/And Nancy Sieberling as the gardener is choosing not to. Mollenhauer/She said she would serve if we needed her to, after surveying the committee members they thought it would be helpful perhaps to have a master gardener on, we have a lot of landscape questions and I think that would be very helpful to have someone with that expertise, Nancy has been a very good member. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 48 Lehman/Now you surveyed the present committee and their, their recommendation is that we do it. Mollenhauer/That we do reduce. Lehman/This is the recommendation? Mollenhauer/Yes. Lehman/The actual number of people will be meeting and talking, it would be actually 12. Mollenhauer/It will be very similar. Lehman/Thirteen so the difference really is one person difference but a difference in four voting members, 5 whatever, you've got 9 instead of 13. Mollenhauer/Right you would not have, right. Lehman/Four fewer votes, one fewer person. Mollenhauer/Yes, no city staff voting. Lehman/Right, OK understand. Pfab/So you end up with 9 potential votes. Lehman/Nine votes. Pfab/OK. Champion/Is it important to have somebody on the committee who doesn't want to shoot the deer? O'Donnell/I think we do. Lehman/I think we do too. Mollenhauer/We do and I don't think you can necessarily determine lethal or non-lethal preference, for example a resident living with deer damage could be one of our folks that (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 49 (END OF 00-52, SIDE 2) Wilburn/Well I have a question then because we did receive correspondence from the concern about along those lines. I'm looking at it more just compared to some of our other commissions/committees, are there others where all of the positions are designated as opposed to a couple open? Atkins/I sure don't think so. Lehman/I don't think so. Atkins/I mean we have a number of them that you may see four or five of nine but I don't, I can't recall Marian any committee where actually every member is a. Wilburn/And so just as a matter of process for me, I would. Atkins/It is a little unusual. (All talking) Lehman/I think there's certain categories that I really would like to see stay but not all of them. Wilburn/I don't have a problem with that, but just relative to. (All talking) Champion/The openness I guess, I want to be on the committee, but I don't qualify for any of these. Vanderhoef/I would suggest then looking at that, there's a question mark about Coralville moving forward with their own committee and that person may be leaving and when that space is open let's put one in at large and still keep the committee at 9. Mollenhauer/That particular term would be up in one year if you approve this as it stands and I think I advised that we review having that position on our committee, I thought it would be wise to give Coralville a year' s notice that we may not, your Council may decide to not have a Coralville representative, I hate to kind of drop the ball on them right now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 50 Vanderhoef/Either that or could we put the Coralville one as an ex-officio right now and put in at-large. Mollenhauer/The only thing that I would be a little bit concerned about that is you would be having an over 50 percent new representative, you know new members in one year which is rather significant. I don't think we have that large of a turnover in any of our commissions in any one year. Lehman/But I guess I don't know, for example, a resident with deer damage, that's really easy to document so I mean having someone who's had the damage probably isn't terribly critical because any member can go out and find out someone who has deer damage. Mollenhauer/Or helping there again, the reason I think these categories are important is these people can bring some personal experience to the group, you know these are some of the things I've tried in my yard, I've gone through this, this works, this doesn't. Lehman/I hear you. Mollenhauer/It's a little bit better to have Iowa City specific information than us trying to gather our information from research around the midwest, I just think it's more helpful to have it local and if we can get those folks on the committee that just makes it all the better. O'Donnell/I don't have any problem going along with this recommendation at all, I think the committee's worked with it, they've worked well together and I think we should take their advice. Vanderhoef/I'll go along with it and I would certainly look at an at-large position when we have a change over. Wilburn/I, again, relative to what seems to be a precedent, or a tradition I would think it would be important to have one also. Mollenhauer/So perhaps next year the Coralville Rep. thing would change to an at-large maybe. Pfab/I have a question, I was under the impression that Coralville in a sense wants out, they want to go their own way, is that correct? Lehman/We don't know that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 51 Mollenhauer/I spoke with Kelly and the way that the Coralville representation' s well Judy Rhodes actually began as an Iowa City resident living with deer damage, she moved to Coralville. She's a very active member, gives presentations to the community, she's been a person that has relayed information well to the Coralville City Council and to their citizen ring. They obviously did not choose the plan that Iowa City did last year, the information flow is more sort of research gathering and then presented to their Council it's not so much the other way and our committee members recognize that. In other words the information to Coralville does not really come back from Coralville to the committee but it's more of the research gathering and going through all of the data, investigating and then she takes that information to the Coralville City Council, that was a recommendation initially by the DNR because we're so close proximity land wise that we go ahead and not have two separate task force but try to combine the research. Pfab/But she's the only one representative from Coralville? Mollenhauer/Yes. Pfab/Well then if it's a combined, why don't we have more representation from Coralville? Mollenhauer/Well again it was sort of like the Board of Supervisors position, Charlie was to take some of the information to the Board of Supervisors to see if it was applicable to use our research in some county concerns. Again it's just because of the proximity that we have with Coralville, I don't think it's necessarily that they decide, we don't decide each other's community plans but if she's taking the information from our task force and presenting to the City of Coralville and then they make their own determination there. Pfab/I have a lot of difficulty with how stilted this, how you have to fit into these categories and like Ross says I've looked over a lot of them and I don't see any that are on any of our other commissions or committees and that leaves me with, that makes me very uncomfortable. Kanner/Yea I like the idea of being proactive to a certain extent then, I think we've done that with a number of categories but I think we can leave three or four in the open and also on our application we could ask if they fulfill any of these categories and if we have a majority of Council that 's leaning one way or another their going to suggest in a certain direction, their going to pick someone so my inclination is to go for at least three possibly four open ones out of the nine. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 52 Lehman/Do we, in our Historic Preservation Commission, we do designate. Mollenhauer/Oh sure, Woodlawn, Moffitt. Lehman/I mean we have to have, I don't recall the total number of people on that commission but I do know that there are people specifically assigned to various areas. Champion/One from every district. Karr/But Historic Preservation when you create a district you are mandated to assign a person to it, it's the reverse, you create the district therefore the position is filled. Lehman/Thank you Marian. Karr/Yea it is. Mollenhauer/You can certainly take these four positions that were there at. Karr/Four people at large and one for each district. Mollenhauer/You can certainly take these four positions that would be vacant this year to be filled and make them at large, I mean you can do whatever you'd like. Lehman/Well it would it be appropriate if we, if we did one or two or more at-large to have them categofized themselves for example if we do have someone7 Obviously if it's at-large and someone's got a big problem with deer damage or very familiar with it I would be inclined to appoint that person even if it were at- large and I think, I don't know. Vanderhoef/I would keep the hunter and I would keep the master gardener if that works. Champion/I wouldn't mess around with their list, I would just add two at-large. O'Donnell/Why are we making such a big deal out of this, let's add an at-large or two like Conhie said7 Champion/It's a public discussion that's a very private little group of people. Lehman/Except that every meeting is public and everybody can speak. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 53 Champion/All meetings are public. O'Donnell/I think it's well represented, I think it's a very well representative community. Pfab/But they speak in a voting are different are possibly different items here too, in other words you mentioned somebody comes in vocally and speaks about something but that person doesn't have a vote. Mollenhauer/Right. Pfab/So I mean speaking and come up and speak in the front of it but not having to vote is there's quite a bit of difference. Now the other thing, how often does this committee meet? Mollenhauer/Well it depends how long we pushed back with getting started. Last year we met about once every, not that was not a hint, we met about once every two to three weeks at the beginning last year and then we had to meet almost twice a week toward the end to get it done. Pfab/The reason I ask you this I was thinking I saw something where this repeat every year, I was going to say ifthat's the case why do we, then we might as well have the City Council do it (can't hear). Mollenhauer/The task force reconvenes every year. Pfab/Oh OK. Mollenhauer/But they meet several months. Lehman/What's your pleasure guys and ladies? Pfab/More open spaces, more open positions. Wilburn/I was kind of thinking along the lines what Dee was suggesting the keeping the gardener, the hunter and leaving other two open. Vanderhoef/Keep, make the fringe area open and the resident with deer damage open. O'Donnell/Doesn't matter, let's just do something. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 54 Kanner/I go with that if we get the Coralville resident if that drops off to be an open one also. Lehman/I think that, it sounds like that may happen next year. Mollenhauer/If you choose yea. Kanner/So we'd have three open. Champion/So we're going to make the resident with deer damage and the fringe area resident, we're not going to, their going to be open seats yea that would be fine. Lehman/Well and it may be the person we appoint does have deer damage or may be in a fringe area but it wouldn't be a requirement. Champion/OK I just feel better if we just the open ones. Lehman/All fight is everybody? O'Donnell/No problem. Mollenhauer/Now typically on boards and commissions and committees you do not allow folks that are not Iowa City residents. Champion/Right. (All saying Right). Mollenhauer/So are you changing that for the fringe then? Lehman/Well you already have a Coralville resident and you've got a fringe area resident that are not. Mollenhauer/OK. Champion/I think that's okay for this committee. Lehman/Well is that any problem legally with that? Dilkes/I'm sorry I missed the question. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 55 Lehman/If we have people on this committee who are not residents of Iowa City, is that a problem? Dilkes/Well you can specify that but it should be specified in the documents that create the position, or create the commission or committee or whatever it is and I haven't looked at those documents. Lehman/But we don't have a law that prohibits. Dilkes/We don't, there's no law that says you can't have nonresidents on your committees. Lehman/Go for it. Atkins/Ernie before we confirm, you'll write a new memo recharacterizing the committee. Lehman/With the two open ones. Atkins/Now if I recall we never adopted this by a resolution. Mollenhauer/No this is an ad-hoc committee. Lehman/Leave it that way. Atkins/And your leaving it that way? OK. Pfab/I'm uncomfortable since we're responsible, I think we ought to have our own citizens on the. Atkins/OK. Dilkes/Can I just, this is not looking like an ad-hoc committee anymore, this is looking more like a standing committee or commission and it seems to me that there should be some documentation establishing it and saying who's suppose to be on it etc. Pfab/I would say anybody that votes should be Iowa City, anybody on the committee that has a vote should be an Iowa City citizen or resident not a citizen, that' s. Atkins/Fine, totally up to you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 56 Vanderhoef/I don't disagree with you. Dilkes/I mean you know the PCRB we have, we can for a good cause we can have a nonresident so there's nothing prohibiting you from doing that. Kanner/I kind of go with. Vanderhoef/But that was by category, the one on the PCRB was specifically by the category of former police. Dilkes/Right, police officer, I'm just mimicking what Steve said you can do whatever you want. Karr/It was an option though Dee, it's not filled. Champion/It's not often in your life your told to do whatever you want. Lehman/Well I have a question though, Lisa said that Judy Rhodes is Coralville, Pat Farrant is Iowa City, Jan Ashman is that Iowa City? Mollenhauer/Yes. Lehman/Doug Jones Iowa City, and Steve Hendrix Iowa City. Mollenhauer/All are except Judy at this point, yea. Lehman/Well I mean I would really be, I don't want to hamstring the committee by saying they all have to be Iowa City residents if suddenly we lose some real expertise on the committee but we would lose Judy Rhodes if they have to be Iowa City residents. Mollenhauer/You would be deciding to not have a Coralville rep. this year if you decide to do that. Pfab/My point is if it's, it started out kind of a by golly and know that were going to make this a formal committee I think we ought to follow the rest of the rules, that would be my suggestion. I mean otherwise why don't we have somebody from every other committee, wherever they. Lehman/The bottom line is the Council accepts the recommendation regardless of where their from, we either accept it or reject it so the bottom line it's our call. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 57 Pfab/Right and I mean, I think, I don't see enough reason why we should make an exception to this committee to other committees. Champion/Because it's a committee not a commission. Vanderhoef/I see it specifically for the Coralville resident. Pfab/I'm sorry. Vanderhoef/I said I see it as important to have the Coralville one in that we have to work back and forth with the. Pfab/I, if this is an Iowa City committee fine, if it's a big wide area regional area then that's fine, then but if these people, we have to vote on what these people come up with I think we ought to limit it to Iowa City, and I would say the Coralville resident is fine but not, an ex-officio or not at all, that's my personal opinion on it. Champion/You could be fight, she started out as an Iowa City resident though. Mollenhauer/We did also have a Coralville resident who dropped off and we also had a Coralville city staff person that was a voting member originally. Pfab/Well that kind of tells you that they want to do what they want to do and Iowa City is responsible for what we do, (can't hear). Mollenhauer/I wouldn't. Lehman/I don't think that says anything. Vanderhoef/I don't think that says anything. Kanner/Why don't we keep Coralville on for the year and the other ones have to be Iowa City residents? Vanderhoef/Yep. Kanner/And look at the Coralville one next year because it looks like we're heading that direction anyway. Lehman/Well that would work, that would work. Vanderhoef/Yea that's what I'm saying, leave her on for this year. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 58 Pfab/OK. Lehman/That keep the five. Mollenhauer/Keeps the majority well your not turning over more than 50 percent in one year. Lehman/Right. Pfab/I'd go along with that if we take away the categories and have them at-large. Champion/No only two at large. Vanderhoef/Just two at-large. Pfab/That' s two out of how many? Champion/You need the categories. Vanderhoef/Two out of four. Lehman/Well two out of nine. Pfab/Two out of nine, I don't think that's enough. Champion/Oh it is enough. Vanderhoef/It is enough. Pfab/Well that's my feeling, I respectfully disagree with it. Lehman/How many want to go with Coralville stays on for at least the rest of this year and we have two at-large, one which is currently categorized as a resident with deer damage and the other one a fringe area resident? Pfab/We just split the question, we just split the question. Kanner/Yea the Coralville one first. Lehman/All right everybody in favor of keeping Coralville on for one more year? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 59 Pfab/That's OK. Vanderhoef/Yes. Lehman/All right how about having two at-large, one resident with deer damage and the other fringe area resident. Pfab/I think there should be three at-large there. Kanner/Yea I'm with Irvin. Dilkes/Can I just? Lehman/Yes. Dilkes/Can I just point out an observation, just a potential consequence of not designating slots on this particular committee and having a good number of at- large positions is one thing I think you need to think about is that each appointment you make then is a potential, is a real political decision because it can ultimately changes the balance on the committee and so I think that' s something you need to sort of throw into the mix there. Pfab/Three. Lehman/No, what she's saying is a pretty valid point. Champion/Right. Kanner/Well all of our. Lehman/You spread the expertise out. Kanner/Many of our commissions are political appointments, Planning & Zoning are political appointees whether we appoint someone who's a property owner or renter or homeowner so I would say that' s our job is take the heat for that for political appointees. Pfab/So then at that point then we can look at more qualification of a person rather than which pigeon hole they fit in. Lehman/The pigeon hole is generally a pretty good qualifiers. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 60 Pfab/Respectfully I disagree. Lehman/Well you think so. Pfab/No, no, no, I'm just saying that doesn't, if they happen that way but it, just because you designate them that way I don't think that assures you. Dilkes/I point that out only because I know in creating this committee and a lot of times the response you give to the public is that you made a lot of effort to keep to make it a balanced committee. Lehman/Yea. Mollenhauer/You also don't have any questions on the application how they feel about Lehman/No. Mollenhauer/How the program is going right now so that's going to be an unknown factor unless they decide to share that with you on the application. Lehman/Do we have a majority who will go for two at-large and the other seven designated by category? O'Donnell/Yes. Vanderhoef/Yes. Lehman/One, two, three, four, five. Go for it. Mollenhauer/Mr. Mayor if I get this typed up for you would you mind announcing them tomorrow night so we could have Council perhaps appoint them on your June 13th, at your June 13th meeting so we can get going? Lehman/That's fine, get it ready, we'll do it. Mollenhauer/OK, thank you. Vanderhoef/What I would look at then in one year will be the Coralville leaving and bringing back a resident with deer damage. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 61 Kanner/And the other issue I want to look at I don't know if there's a majority to do this but the issue of sharpshooting, it's in our laps. Lehman/Not until they recommend back to us. Champion/Not until they recommend it. Kanner/Well I actually I say it's in our laps and then we can say no we don't, not sharpshooting, I mean silencer. Champion/Oh right. Kanned And within 50 feet, the state law that was changed. I think. Champion/Was it changed? Mollenhauer/Yes. Lehman/I think it got signed. Kanner/Yea. Vanderhoef/50 yards. Kanner/50 yards is it? It used to be 200 yards, yea and I would like Council to take a position on that whether they agree that that's a possibility if the deer management committee recommends it, or it's not that we're again silencers and we're against the 50 yards, that we want to stay back to the 200 yards. Vanderhoef/I think that comes with the recommendation and then we act on it at that point in time. Lehman/No I think there's a larger issue here, I think that if we tell the deer committee under no circumstances would you be able to use silencers we're telling them, we're giving them a rule. The same thing is true under no circumstances can you shoot with closer than 200 yards of a building. Are there four people who wish to give them those instructions? Pfab/I would. Champion/I'm not interested in silencers. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 62 Wilburn/I'm not interested silencers but I (can't hear) distance (can't hear). Mollenhauer/I think that if I could just interject, I think it's important to understand sharpshooting before. Lehman/Yes. Vanderhoef/Yes. Mollenhauer/And one of the benefits of sharpshooting as opposed to hunting is that it is designed to be used and utilized in dense housing residential areas and it doesn't mean that folks would not know, it just means you would not have to have their permission if their home or their occupied structure is 50 yards or greater away from the shooting site. Distance does not indicate safety because if the shooter has his back to the home in back of him, it doesn't matter ifhe's two feet or 400 feet away from someone. So I just want you to be a little cautious before you maybe make a judgment on that that you understand how sharpshooting operates. But again I mean that would be something that would be helpful I think that the committee knew so that we didn't spend a lot of time deliberating on it if. Lehman/You know I have no problem with silencers or the 50 yards, silencers to me makes it far less (can't hear). O'Donnell/I don't either and I you know I think that's exactly fight Ernie, the silencer is less intrusive to anybody around. Lehman/Less disruptive. Vanderhoef/Well and the other thing that Tony spoke about specifically was in how it affects the herd with the noise and how affective he can become and do his job and complete it without training the herd to that sound. Mollenhauer/You hear a suppressed weapon for a great distance, you just don't hear it as far as you do an unsuppressed weapon. Lehman/Right. Mollenhauer/It cracks for a long distance if it's not suppressed, and we have to remember that a lot of these activities taking place if you approve sharpshooting again, if the committee recommends it, you know in sleep hours. Lehman/Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 63 Pfab/My question was are there two questions? Should that question be divided? Lehman/Well we can do that. Champion/I don't have enough information to make a decision on that tonight. Kanner/Yea I think it would be good to have a hearing on it. Lehman/All right. Well I think if you could just get us a little information on it, I don't care to spend a lot of time talking about it. Kanner/Well I think it's a big issue in the community, there are quite a few people that feel some feel that your positions don't feel the other. I think it's sizable on both sides. Lehman/I think your fight but I think most of the folks, the biggest objection is silencers and probably the biggest objection to sharpshooting is 50 yards probably don't have a very good understanding of what their actually trying to do. Vanderhoef/It's an education. Mollenhauer/Sharpshooting is new to this area so. Lehman/It's objecting principally I totally agree in not shooting close to my house and not using silencers but for harvesting of deer it just makes a lot of sense. And I don't know, well, I don't know what information you can get us that we don't have now. Champion/I just need to think about it. Mollenhauer/And it could be a situation where maybe the committee would recommend a particular areas that you would utilize these tools or maybe even make it a 100, it just depends on the particular. Lehman/When is your next meeting? Mollenhauer/Well that's up to whenever we get the appointments made, I don't see any point in convening the committee until we've got the new members gathered. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 64 Lehman/Well would it be fair to tell the committee there is not unitemity on the Council as far as allowing sharpshooters or 50 yards but that if they can make a good case for that we would listen? Champion/That would be a. Lehman/I think that would maybe be the best way because I think they probably will have enough information to at least make a good case for it. Mollenhauer/Again they may not recommend any of this so. Lehman/Right, right. O'Donnell/Thank you. Lehman/Thank you dear. Vanderhoef/Dear. Students Against Sweatshop Resolution Lehman/What's your pleasure? Pfab/I move that we, my suggestion is that we recommend that the University do what those people are asking. Basically the effort that we started here was to work to get clothes that are not put together in sweatshops. Champion/I can't really write a letter to the University. Pfab/It doesn't say, does it say to write a letter? Lehman/No it says passing a resolution which basically. Pfab/Well that we recommend, that we recommend, just going on record. Champion/There is more that, I would have to know exactly what conditions those people are working with, your talking about one organization versus another organization and I don't want to get into it. Vanderhoef/OK what I looked at today on the resolution, the first "whereas" I think has some. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 65 Pfab/What are you reading from? Vanderhoef/I'm reading from the draft resolution, which in the first "whereas" sweatshops are work places and I would say maybe work places that have some of these conditions. The next one, two, three, four "whereas"' I don't have enough information to even consider those. Pfab/Which is such as I don't have it right in from of me so I. Kanner/It's in the info. package. Vanderhoef/Oh page IP3, (can't hear). (All talking). Vanderhoef/So the only place I could go with this is going with the "whereas" the City of Iowa City has recognize the importance of stopping sweatshop produces with it's moratorium on certain apparel which will be producing substandard conditions. We might do one for Iowa City without involving any of that stuff with the University which we've already recognized this and have been acknowledged for it and then I would take out the next two. Lehman/We've already. Vanderhoef/The next "whereas" and be down there with a resolution of our own that we support not purchasing uniforms and wearing apparel that has been manufactured in sub standard working conditions. Lehman/We've already done that. Kanner/Can I give a point of information? Lehman/Yes. Kanner/I was at the Human Rights Commission meeting last week and they are going to look at this in their next meeting, this issue and the whole issue of Steve' s executive order whether if we want to codify? I think that's an appropriate place that let them digest it a little bit and then bring it back to us with a recommendation and see what they have to say. Champion/Very good idea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 66 Lehman/I would really concur with that, I have a real problem telling the University. (All talking). Vanderhoef/What I would say to them is the possibility of us doing our own resolution for our own purposes, that' s what I would like to do. Champion/I'm not going to be saying. Vanderhoef/I would like to exclude all of this about the University. Champion/Right or putting people's names in there like. (All talking). Kanner/Let them hear both sides, let them hear your position, let them hear Irvin's, let them hear both sides from the University people, they're going to try to bring in someone that' s against either dropping out of the FLA let them bring in folks from students against sweatshops and talk about this. I saw a little confusion when I mentioned about Steven's executive order, he said about the clothing. Atkins/I'm still getting over executive order. Kanner/Well I like that term. (All talking). Vanderhoef/I missed what you were talking about. (All talking) Kanner/Well the issue is that' s his order, that we as a Council through the Human Rights Commission wanted to put this into an ordinance. Atkins/Yes. Kanner/Saying that's our policy and I think that ties in with the proclamation issue and they're going to talk about both and I think it's very appropriate for them to talk about that. Champion/It's a really good idea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 67 Vanderhoef/I think it's appropriate for us to talk about it as a City. Kanner/Oh yea, well that's the plan is for them to talk and bring it to us and see if we want to accept what they say or go another direction. Vanderhoef/That's fine, but what did you say earlier about codifying something? Kanner/Well codifying, Steve's decision was not anything that was a resolution from us and we might want to say we want this as a policy, this is our ordinance, we're not going to be buying clothes from people that have certain conditions. Vanderhoef/That's what I offered. Lehman/I wouldn't have a problem with that but I sure would hate to spend a lot of staff time and effort researching companies to find out what they pay, what their benefits are and whatever, I mean I'd rather see us not even buy the clothing before we go through that kind of stuff. Vanderhoef/Well I think we have some clothing but. Arkins/Well we have to buy the clothing. Vanderhoef/We've got uniform kinds of things that we deal along with all along and that. Champion/And I can tell you, you can not tell if your clothes are made in San Francisco or whether they're made in the sweatshop or not so. Lehman/That's true. Champion/So you know you really. Lehman/All right in any event. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Do your best to (can't hear). Lehman/We'll wait till we hear from the Human Rights Commission to see what their recommendations are and then we'll take another look at it. Pfab/So what are we going to do here? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 68 Lehman/Nothing. Champion/Nothing. Lehman/Until we hear from Human Rights? Kanner/Is that all right with you to see what the Human Rights Commission? Pfab/I have no problem, but the only thing is I'm telling you I've been watching this issue for years and I've got information that keeps coming from all over the world and these things have got to stop. Lehman/Well I absolutely. Pfab/We have to do whatever we can do. Lehman/I absolutely agree with you but when I see a guy like Bums Weston who is a world wide renowned Human Rights person write a guest opinion where he supports the University's position 100 percent in using both of those groups I have to sit up and look because here's a guy who I have tremendous respect for, obviously he has a little more information than some people do and I'm not willing, I'm with Dee to make a decision on something (can't hear). Pfab/No that's fine, I think that the point that Steve made is great and I. Champion/Right. Lehman/I think that's the way to go. Council Time Atkins/While your putting together your council time things I've got a couple dates you may want to jot down, get your pencils out. Thursday, May 11, 4:00 PM, Open I-louse new Airport Terminal. I'll send a little summary note. Lehman/OK. Atkins/Saturday, May 13, 11:00 AM Soccer field new concession stands, just a little opening, that's a real real busy day. Kanner/Do we get those JuJu fruits free? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 69 Atkins/I'll give them executive order out of that. (All laughing and talking) Atkins/Another heads up, Sunday the 7th is the Crisis Center breakfast, if you want to participate I encourage you to call the Crisis Center. Lehman/You can come and judge Lehman and O'Donnell who can flip the best pancakes. Atkins/Well everybody's emitled to flip pancakes I think particular if your on the City Council's. Kanner/What time are you flipping? Lehman/8:00. Kanner/Oh I'm following your footsteps would be kind of hard. Champion/(Can't hear). Lehman/I love doing that. And then one thing just unless I hear differently the City of Coralville has asked me to come to their Council meeting at the end of the month and tell them about City of Iowa City capital projects and the things that we've got in the mill. All fight stunned silence now, is it OK? I don't see any trouble in doing that and it's just a list of. Lehman/Let out some deep dark secrets. Atkins/No I promise I won't embarrass you, no they'd like to know about some of the projects that we have underway I, I said fine I couldn't see why you all would object to it, it's just appearing before another elective body and I'd like to have a little. Vanderhoef/I appreciated your update on projects that we have completed. Atkins/And that was another thing is that. Lehman/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 70 Atkins/Things are going pretty good, OK. Vanderhoef/Yea we're making progress guys. Atkins/That's all I have. Pfab/I was at an open house at the Emergency Housing Center Sunday, or yesterday so, and I see we have a lot of work to do there and that is wall to wall people and we have to keep that as a very high in our high in our conscious what can be done to help that. O'Donnell/Well just, Ellen McCabe is leaving and Dennis Mitchell is leaving, Ernie I think you should recognize that, or Dennis left. Dilkes/Friday. O'Donnell/Friday but I think Ernie its appropriate to recognize that. Letunan/I believe on Friday afternoon there's a little send off for him. O'Donnell/It would be a good thing to mention. Vanderhoef/Friday what time? O'Donnell/4:00. Champion/Everything is at 4:00. Dilkes/Two to Four I think, yea, I'm also sure 2 to 4. Kanner/Someone else is leaving I saw a note downstairs. Dilkes/Jim Bracthel's leaving from Engineering, and I think his party's after Dennis. Oh not it's Thursday that's right. O'Donnell/And also I watched the majority of the Hospice runners, they all ran by my house and it was extremely successful this year and I thought it was a, the police really conducted the streets much better this year than it was handled in the past, it didn't seem like there was much confusion with all the, there were a ton of rmmers out there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 71 Atkins/I waited tables last night at the Hospice dinner at The Brewery, people who do that for a living earn every penny they make. I was on my feet for 5 hours and I was pooped. Vanderhoef/You're not used to that. Atkins/I am not, no I gave no executive orders, I took a lot of them. O'Donnell/Have you ever flipped pancakes? Atkins/Yes I've done that and I'm quite good at it. O'Donnell/It would be a good challenge between Mr. Lehman and myself, Sunday at this. Atkins/Oh I'll take you both on. Lehman/Hey you'll lose. O'Donnell/Well your talking about. Vanderhoef/I'm going to flip sausage instead. Lehman/OK. Pfab/I'm going to pick the ones off the floor. (All talking). Kanner/I've got something and I'll announce it tomorrow too I went to the area code discussion and it seems to be, I think in most places the question is should it be a split, which means you split the 319 area in two places or an overlay which is where all the old people keep their same area codes. Lehman/We know what you meant. Kanner/New people with new numbers get new area codes so it could be your next door neighbor will have a new area code and it seems that residents tend to go for the split, phone companies and other businesses tend to go for the overlay, there's, the utility board is still taking comments I think through June and they'd appreciate hearing from folks. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 72 Champion/Can you imagine if it was split? Vanderhoef/Do you have their e-mail? Champion/You'd have to trial and error to call your neighbor you'd have to know what area code your neighbor had. O'Donnell/You could have different area codes in the same house. Pfab/That's my point, I don't think it's, I don't think it's the same, it's a new number, any new number could have a different area code. Kanner/So you would have to dial 10 digits instead of 7. Champion/So dividing the town in half I think isn't right. Kanner/Well they won't divide the town. Champion/Well whatever they do with the area code. Vanderhoef/They'll divide the, all the plans show us all of them would be with Cedar Rapids because that's our working community that corridor. Kanner/There are a couple though that are not. Pfab/I would say that there might be more merit because eventually we're going to come to a 10 number whatever it is and it's going to be a lot less disruptive because your going to have to keep reslicing it as you have smaller areas. Champion/Not in my lifetime though that won't. Kanner/The feeling is though that when it runs out in 10 years the new split there will be new technology that will make the whole thing move. (All Talking) Lehman/No Steve and I are going to have a 23 million phone numbers and we've only got three million people. Kanner/Eight per person. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 73 Lehman/That' s right, the State of Iowa has 23 million phone numbers and we only have 3 million people. Kanner/Well the thing is also that people buy up lots, you have to buy them in certain amounts and some of the (can't hear) yea and it's amazing, do that next time you do your e-mail. Pfab/The other thing is we're starting to see a lot of 356 numbers coming out of residential areas now. Lehman/We are, I didn't know that. Wilburn/I'd like to thank the Clerk's office for everything you had to do to get all those signatures verified, that's a labor intensive. Karr/It wasn't just the Clerk's office as you know, the City Manager's, the City Attorney's. Wilburn/Well that's why he makes the big bucks. (All talking). Vanderhoef/Well you can sit down with that one. Karr/Yea but Mike's right, I didn't get to make an executive decision though but I'11, maybe the next time. Atkins/Executive Order. Karr/Order, that too. O'Donnell/Good point. Lehman/Is there any unexecutive orders from other Council people? Champion/Well I wanted to bring up and it's not important so maybe I'll wait but I'll bring it up anyway but there are some situations downtown where people are concerned about noise in the downtown level because we don't, the noise ordinance doesn't cover the downtown. Lehman/Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 74 Atkins/Well yea it does I mean it depends on the circumstance. Dilkes/No it has to be, it has to cross a residential boundaries so. Atkins/But I thought because there was residential above. Dilkes/No. Atkins/Commercial establishments. Dilkes/No, I think it's tough downtown is what we've said. Atkins/It is tough but there are residential, their specific. I've found when I get a noise complainant about downtown I'll often just call the merchant and just simply say look it's not good for your business you've got customers complaining or someone's not going to shop your store. I mean if there's something I can do to follow up Connie I'd be happy to do it. Champion/No I just wondered if anybody else has heard anything. Lehman/No, no, we have, we've heard people complain about Gabe's over here. Kanner/And also Capitol Apartments on South Dubuque that have people that complain. Champion/So I mean, I don't know maybe it's something we need to look at in the future about how far can music project out of your bar. Atkins/That was the trouble with trying to truly enforce that and I think. Champion/I mean you should not be able to hear it on the street. Lehman/No but then you take a place like Union bar with windows that open, when the windows are closed you don't hear much noise. They open in the summertime and it's very very noisy bar. O'Donnell/I'm sure Eleanor could whip something up that would be (can't hear). Champion/Well I just think we should be alert to it and it's become a problem as the weather gets nice now and windows are open and you know maybe it's something we might just want to talk about, I think we have enough things to talk about right now but I just think we need to be aware of it, I don't know how you trap an ordinance with noise in a commercial area but I think it's really difficult. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100 May 1, 2000 Council Work Session Page 75 Pfab/I would say if noise gets into a residential area in the middle of the night I think there should be something that says (can't hear). Champion/Well there already is, that's already in place. Pfab/(can't hear) what is it the law quits at the end of my arm unless it's your noise is in the way or something like that. Atkins/No. Kanner/Something like that. O'Donnell/There has to be something to that. I move we adjourn. Lehman/All fight. Adjoumed: 8:50 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 1, 2000. WS050100