Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-04-25 Transcription April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 1 April 25, 2000 Council Work Session 7:30 AM Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Kanner, Wilbum (Pfab Absent) Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Franklin, Davidson, Winkelhake School Board Staff: Lane Plugge, Jerry Palmer School Board: Pete Wallace, Don Jackson, Lauren Reece, Dale Schultz Tapes: 00-50, Both Sides Zoning Applicability to School Districts Lehman/Let's start by introducing ourselves, I'm Ernie Lehman, Iowa City's Mayor, Mike O'Donnell, Iowa City, Connie Champion, Ross Wilburn, Don Jackson, Pete Wallace, Steven Kanner, Dee Vanderhoef. Lehman/We have a short agenda, hopefully this won't take a lot of time this morning.. One of the things that, I know that it's going to be amazing to everybody, but when the (can't hear) lights that were apparently put around City High School as I recall, and there were some comments and there were some comments from the public. Wallace/You're just dragging this out (can't hear) aren't you? Lehman/Well we could. Wallace/Never heard this before. Lehman/Would you like a staff person to bring you up to date? In any bet, there was some comment made by the public as to whether or not the zoning laws of Iowa City apply to the public school system and at this point in time they don't and there is apparently some evidence that it would be possible for the City to pass zoning ordinances that would require the schools to comply with city zoning ordinance as they relate to parking, traffic and all those sorts of things. At first, I talked to Karin Franklin about this oh I don't know Karin a couple three months ago or more. I don't think there are very many things that in fact probably almost nobody from the school district does that wouldn't comply with our zoning regulations and with the permission of the school board I would like for if there's any interest in having your staff goals work with our staff goals, see what affect would actually be if you did comply with our zoning and if you find that those This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 2 regulations are not cumbersome, their not (can't hear) and I don't think you will find they are but if you would voluntarily adopt our zoning regulations I think from a PR standpoint it would be much much better than for us to decide that we want to go through the process of making, getting that corrected. But making zoning ordinances have to go through Planning & Zoning and all that sort of thing. And that's strictly, I think it's best for the community if you'd look at it, and there may be things that you don't think you want. Pete Wallace/A couple questions Ernie that brings up, number 1, we're assuming that this would not be retroactive? Lehman/Oh I think you have to always assume whatever is there is there, I think it's grandfathered in. That's opinion, so don't (can't hear). Wallace/No I would assume that too but it needs to be made clear. The other question, I want information does the City particularly the recreational areas and the University and their recreational areas also conform to the public zoning P-zone? Champion/Good question. Lehman/Karin Franklin will respond to that. Karin Franklin/Well it's easy to comply with public zone because basically the P-zone says it's publicly owned property and it's not subject to zoning, the other zoning requirements. Zoning applies to private property and the University, the school district, City, County are all zoned P for public which means that those properties do not comply with these specific requirements. In a lot of other communities in Iowa schools are dealt with as any other type of use, they are not designated as any particular kind of public use and so they are subject to the zoning requirements of the zoning which they're located, sometimes there are special standards. It's usually a site plan review which is basically just looking at the layout, the parking, lighting, screening, all those kinds of attributes when a facility is going to be built or expanded. Lehman/We comply though ourselves don't we you know (can't hear) with our own zoning. I mean we try to as I remember. Franklind We try to, we try to, yes. I think the principle there is that the cities or the County, or any governmental entity is working in the public interest and sometimes there are some overriding issues that don't allow to comply but practically speaking it's very difficult to explain that to the private sector and so we do try in almost every instance to comply with whatever the private sector would have to comply with. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 3 Lauren Reece/Do you know how it came to be that Iowa City differs from these other major cities in Iowa in terms of zoning? Franklin/It was in this concept of the public zone, what we wanted to do when we adopted that was to set apart these properties to say that these are publicly owned, there's a certain stability about them then, one thing zoning does is it enables someone who is acquiring property to know generally what will be going on around them and to know too that there can be different ownership over time. When it's zoned P that means it's owned by a public by a governmental entity and so therefore there's more stability in terms of that ownership but it also tells someone that there are different rules that apply there than any other property. Reece/So why now, why do you want to make the change now? Lehman/I don't know that it's going to represent much change. We had a request from the public and I think it's because we try to comply with our own regulations and sometimes we do it at substantial expense to ourselves. And I would think that the school board might also be interested in, I don't think most of those regulations are terribly (can't hear) and I think from a PR standpoint it probably is a good move. I, well I don't know, we really never debated it, I prefer not to do it if we don't have to here. Franklin/I think submissions have changed over time to when the whole concept of zoning first came to being and schools were at for that matter (can't hear) institutions were accepted in neighborhoods, they were in a much smaller scale than they are today and high schools particularly, the level of activity both with the athletic events and with practically all the students driving make it a very different kind of land use that was when it was first admissioned to have schools in all the different neighborhoods and it is the high schools versus the elementary schools that really become more of an issue over the elementary schools are also becoming community centers so it's kind of something that's evolving as far as schools are concerned too. O'Donnell/What would be a couple of days largest things affected, like signing? Franklin/I think, no, I think it's parking, obviously lights and noise from activities, that's the hardest one to control or to have any kind of modification of to make it fit in. Lehman/There would have to be an exception of that athletic activity (can't hear). (All talking) Lehman/And all that, I mean that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 4 man/(Can't hear). Franklin/But those are the points, the most frequent points of conflict are those three things. O'Donnell/But other areas we require certain permits for banner signage, would be doing the same thing in a (can't hear)? Franklin/I guess I would suggest that if we were going to have either an understanding or any kind ofregulatory mechanism that we look at schools specifically, the kinds of activities that schools have and they set regulations (can't hear) schools. Lehman/But like banner signs there the same regulations for the city because their public and we put up banner signs and there's no problem, (can't hear) neither of them would be regulated by the same regulations as private. O'Donnell/But a Friday night football game if they can go (can't hear). Champion/(Can't hear). O'Donnell/And how do we (can't hear)? That's the point I want to make. Lehman/No, no, I think primarily we'd be talking about (can't hear) and expanded, I think parking is probably is the largest single issue (can't hear) right now and certainly was 5-6 years ago before the lot got built at City High. Jackson/I don't understand the point though, I mean it's like there's no review process really really today. Lehman/No. Jackson/And what your, I mean what we would be suggesting is that in the future that there be some kind of at least (can't hear). Lehman/Well we visit with the staff, I mean, and you know. Jerry Palmer/That' s not totally true there is a review process because when our site plan. Lehman/Jerry you need to talk up at the table so we can record it. Palmer/When our site plans are approved for example we follow the planting of the trees, for barriers for parking lots, the number of trees that are required and green spaces within the parking lot or (can't hear) the berms and that type of thing and so those are reviewed by (can't hear). I mean we have to follow the guidelines for, when This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 5 we did the parking lot at City High we had to follow the stringing procedure at City High. Franklin/But they don't follow our tree regulations for parking lots. Palmer/At Weber School we did. Franklin/Did you? Palmer/Yea, we that was reviewed, we had to put in, we put in more than the number that was required but we specifically were required to put in so many under contract because of City regulations. ???man/That's interesting. Lehman/Well what I'd like to if there's any interest at least have. Wallace/I don't have any. Lehman/Your staff and our staff give you folks what the implications would be, I don't think we're asking for an answer. Wallace/No I don't have any problem with that Ernie, it's worth looking at. I think before, it would be my opinion, before we would want to jump on this we would want to give consideration to whether Regina and the University of Iowa ought to be included in the, at least the discussion of this so that it appears equitable throughout towns that you already conform to your extra public zoning restrictions should (can't hear) everybody, or should it only be our school district or should it only be the two school districts? I don't know that. Lehman/I'm saying I hear you but I think there would be real problems trying (can't hear) to control the state (can't hear). (can't hear) very very good neighbors (can't hear). Wallace/No and that's true but again for the PR situation not that their, well they have tennis lights I guess. Not that they haven't, not that they wouldn't but for a PR that yes we are a neighbor, yes we're a community member worth looking at. But I, what do you guys think about having? Lehman/Well if the staffs could just visit with each other and find out what the implications would be and then appraise an interest we'll proceed from there. Jackson/I mean I'd be clearly interested in understanding what the gaps are relative if, for useful knowledge. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 6 Lehman/I don't think there are any. Vanderhoef/I think Pete has a good point though because we have private schools in varying sizes around the City and. Franklin/Private schools are required to get special exceptions before they locate, they are required to go through complete review process. Lehman/Because they are a public entity, (can't hear). Kanner/What about religious institutions, is Regina part of a religious institution? Lehman/(can't hear). Franklin/It is part of a religious institution consider private use and is also required to get special exceptions go through the board of adjustments, as well as have site review. Kanner/So schools and the government entity (can't hear) public (can't hear). Wallace/I learned something this moming. Lehman/OK well we'll proceed with that. Tennis Lights Lehman/Number two is Tennis Lights. I guess we're, what is the status? Reece/Well tonight we are scheduled to take a vote amongst board members as to whether we want at this point to have a hearing, have a formal heating from people from Dunlap Court. As to whether or not the district has violated out of. So we have to vote on it tonight and we think that our policies have been violated in this instance and if we get three votes affirmative then we have a heating, if you can believe it, and then if we don't get three votes, we do not have a hearing and it's back in Dr. Plugge's lap and those two groups fight it out from there or work it out. Lehman/What is the, what do you hope to resolve at a the hearing? Reece/I thirtk that their group feels that there's more that they need to tell us about process and we developed and how they feel their rights were violated and how people were violated. I mean they want, you know they want the lights taken down. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 7 Wallace/They made a proposal which was not totally accepted and was compromised on and I think they want to go back to the original proposal and the only way they seem to do this is to show that in some way we violated policy and want us to reconsider. Lehman/OK. O'Donnell/How are the lights handled presently? Lehman/Lane you want to go through all that? Lane Plugge/We have, there's a timing device on them that allows them to come on at 8:00 and turn off at 10:00. Those also before the timing devices inside is, we still have to turn them on/off switch at the boards so if it's cold weather, raining, nobody shows up, they still won't come on. You can't turn them on at 7:00 or 10:00 because of the timing device. They go on and begin the season (can't hear) and would turn off according to our contract at the end of October. One of the things that I propose pending the outcome of this hearing business is to turn them off at the end of September and I don't think that will be a problem but it would have to change our contract with the city because it says now until the end of October. The proposal from the neighbors was to turn the lights off at 8:30 and then not use the lights again after our tennis season is over which is probably about what June, probably before June that tennis season would be over before that so. Lehman/They would not leave the lights all summer? Plugge/No, that was that their proposal and that's when I made the change to turn them off a month early so which was I think about a fourth, I think a 14 percent reduction in the amount of time that they could be on. O'Donnell/So presently if your not, if the court is not being used there' s a switch that the lights go off?. Plugge/Yes, you turn off. Yea, if nobody comes, they have to be turned on, you can't turn the lights on until after the time or opens that window of opportunity between 8 and 10. Lehman/OK but they also want it automatic? man/No. Reece/Players turn them on. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 8 man/Yes it's a switch on and off. Reece/And is that open that is the end timing device that (can't hear)? Plugge/I think we could even get it more sophisticated than that so that I that's one that' s been in place and I don't think they understand that that is in place, I know I talked to Terry and he said there may be even a more sophisticated one but I would think this would be a fairly workable solution at this point. Kanner/Were these lights up last summer and did we get a count of approximately how many people are using them between 8 and 107 Plugge/Well I don't have that information Steven, I know they are heavily used. Schultz/We asked last time this came up, apparently they are used by some people but we don't know the count. man/There supposedly some of the best sports in town, I mean for playing surface and the lighting is probably the best. man/They're very evenly located. Wallace/Yes and we thought we'd advertise this and try to get as much. Reece/And does the switch turn on all the lights? Is there any way to? Plugge/Yes, you can't turn off just, as their lit if you've been up there, it's parameter around all the courts so you can't turn on one at a time. O'Donnell/And then parking, the parking lights that (can't hear). Plugge/Yes we have tum two of them that are separate. There was an issue as using the tennis as lighting our parking lot and it, there are two poles that are turned and they light the parking lot that in tennis (can't hear). O'Donnell/And those are separate pieces? OK good. Lehman/Well obviously I guess the City has some sort of interest if the lights are not used, I mean if you tum them on all Spring and they can't be used in the Summer obviously that's (can't hear) variation of what Parks and Recreation (can't hear). But I guess were going to wait and to see what happens at your. Wallace/Yea give us tonight and we will go from there and see what happens I mean. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 9 Lehman/I mean obviously the ball is in your court. Wallace/Well I mean I'm looking forward to a precedent, you know for 20 years I lived next to the City High tennis courts and lights and the noise and we were bothered every night but I didn't think to do anything about it so now if this passes I get a hold of Mr. Olick and go forward. Lehman/I think your grandfathered in though. O'Donnell/At least once. Lehman/All right, well we'll just keep up with what's happening there, we obviously get some comments over the last couple years but I'm glad it's your jurisdiction. DARE Program Lehman/Steven I think had some interest in discussing that Steve. Kanner/Well most of you have probably seen the Long Beach study I think that came out that said the DARE program is effective. I found numerous studies that showed that it's not an effective and so I was wondering what the school had found out with their internal studies, I know teachers tend to like programs where there' s someone coming in and presenting something but I think there might be some better programs out there that might be better use of money and so I throw that out to the group to see ifthere's any discussion on that if we can look at some other things. I passed this out to the City Council before, this is a little bit of information on two studies that show the ineffectiveness of the DARE program plus some other possible studies. I'll pass it around again if you want to take one. Lehman/I guess I'm interested in what the school board, how the school board feels and I'm also interested in how (can't hear) so whoever would like to start, I think I did see a letter from you Lane indicating I felt for the program so if you just would take it from there. I mean if you would like to speak to it first I'd appreciate that. Lane why don't you just sit down here, we've got extra space anyway. Plugge/The DARE program as you look at some of the studies there have been conflicting studies that's to be in affect in itself and I've got some personal biases as to maybe why it's effective and why it's not. I think that, and that also leads into the next issue Number 5. Lehman/Fine we'll take them together. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 10 Plugge/There, if you look at what our kids are exposed to education wise, the education is overwhelming toward use of tobacco, use of alcohol so I think we're almost fighting a rising tide of education and media and so I think it's tough to have any program be totally effective. The real benefits we see from the DARE program and quite frankly that I even out weight the education portion or drug and alcohol is the presence of the officer in the classroom. The relationship that you can build, I know I've only been here nine months but in the former community I worked in that relationship had gone on a number of years with an officer that I found to be from my standpoint I don't know about the law enforcement but very helpful to the schools, especially the principal, someone that they could even call and talk to that they had a relationship with so and working with kids. I've even seen that the DARE program that even if we didn't do the DARE I would say that it would be, I would miss that relationship and that's what I hear from our principals and we allow principals and teachers to make the decision whether they implement the program as well. Lehman/Is it used in all your schools? Plugge/I think we're probably in just about elementary school now, I don't think we're not. Winkelhake/I believe Weber is not going to have it this year. And maybe one other but that's all that I know of. Plugge/And probably the reason they would not would be time, the time that it takes to institute it because as Steve said it does take some time away because the officer comes in and does some instruction so. Although the teacher is there in the classroom as well. Vanderhoef/Are there any other good programs out there that you are interested in other than the DARE program? Plugge/You mean. Vanderhoef/I'm presuming that there will be some sort of a program so the implication would be if the DARE program were not there what program might be there? Winkelhake/Well it would depend on what the purpose would be Dee and it's that relationship with the law enforcement or it's drug and alcohol programs, that's part of our health program but you have to understand also that help in school curriculum is a very small slice of that time and that curriculum so we would do something as well in that program but my fear would be losing it. That's personally, I see that as a greatest (can't hear) is that relationship. But I certainly understand that your resources are stretched as well. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 11 Plugge/I don't know if it's true, the law enforcement believes that it's also an advantage to have that relationship with children so. Vanderhoef/I don't disagree with that, I think it comes around, I've been on Council now a little over four years and it has come around at different times and it usually comes around at budget time and we're looking at the number of officers that we have and then the educational materials and the dollars of course. And so forth what we've put in there so maybe this is a time to talk about a collaborative effort with the school district rather than the City totally funding themselves. Lehman/What does the law enforcement community think of it? Winkelhake/When you take a look at the DARE program particularly here in Iowa City, you have to remember we're doing it either in the 5th or 6th grade, we do it one time. DARE programs across the country is a lot more than that so we're doing a very small slice of the total program. We take a look at the DARE program too here and try to evaluate it. You have to take a look at the other things that the school does to help the program because we do just a very small part of it. I think one of the things that we see from the DARE program is building a relationship with the schools in other areas as well, we have safety village, which kind of came out from the DARE program and we have a number of people who take part in that in the course of the year. The other thing that you see is that I think it is easier for somebody to know who that officer is and be able to call him for various reasons and I think that is a relationship that's been growing because we do have other officers that we're able to involve in meeting with principals and working on different plans that aren't necessary for the school. We have one that we've been on working what about 6 months now, that will be coming up as a, it started out as a training exercise for us and it's come into a program for school safety, so there' s a lot of things that have happened. But the DARE program itself, from our standpoint I think is a good program, we've always been under the, well we've always worked under the idea that if the school district has something better that they want to do, fine, do it. The main thing is that we're able to bring some sort of program for the kids and I don't know what' s the best program, it's certainly not a feel that I have any knowledge at. But if there is a better program, fine, I don't have a problem doing it, if this is something that' s worthwhile for the school I think we certainly have to do it. The other parts, some people said that the public relations for the school. What is it that we do that isn't? I mean everything we do has an impact there, and I think anything we can be involved in, whatever reasons that can put a police officer in a positive image with the children is certainly a plus and it is a plus in my mind. Wilburn/I was kind of glancing through this information and coincidentally I used to be a trainer for the Center of Substance Prevention for their National Volunteer This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 12 Training Center and one of the things that they're really big on is getting groups in communities to look at that array of services that are targeted towards substance use, prevention, reduction, treatment approaches. And I think Chief you're getting at, this is one attempt at building that community event of services, and you also pointed out that that's one attempt at a specific grade level and so I think it's important to recognize that in this community we do have an array several different approaches to addressing this one specific area. You know I come from the community based services part of this and the skills resistance prevention affect anything and that's one component of an entire set of approaches you can take. Some of them in fact, this one has general studies of one in more significant (can't hear) at changing behavior. There's also two ways to look at, the effectiveness you can look at behavior change, you can also look at attitudinal change and yes even cases where it's shown that there isn't a statistically significant effect at behavior change with the DARE program but there have been, it has been shown that there have been other impacts and other lower moderate statistically significant affects with things that you both were getting at. And you know having worked with teenagers again at a community based center I always felt, and this is, I felt that it was a benefit to have here because it was an information dissemination strategy and as someone at a community base agency working at behavior change I didn't have to spend my time with young people with information dissemination because they've already received it at DARE and (can't hear) so I can focus my energies at behavior change. So you know and again I think that there is benefit to having law enforcement with presence in the school, having young people getting a lot more positive with law enforcement than waiting for a negative experience to happen and if information dissemination about drug, alcohol, tobacco is the vehicle to getting them in there then I really don't have a problem with it so. Lehman/How do the board members feel? Schultz/I can't say that I spend a lot of time on it. It, I think it's useful to have different approaches because different kids just respond to different things so we're coming at people with two or three different ideas, one of them as wrong. Reece/Is there a measurement piece of the DARE program? Is there any way that we evaluate it's effectiveness? Lehman/I think it's almost impossible to definitively do it, you know, and I guess. Reece/Is there anything in place then? Lehman/Oh I think there are, there are studies that have shown in other communities (can't hear) I think that have shown that in many cases very minor affects on kids using alcohol on drugs. To me the DARE program is far more of a drug program, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 13 it's an opportunity for kids to interact with police officers. And if that was the only reason that they were there is worth it as far as I'm concerned because it's a positive reaction to police officers. You know we catch them on the skateboards on the sidewalks and that's a very negative confrontation, and I think young people need to know that police officers are, they really are their friends, and their to help and solve and I think that's one, it's an interaction that they leamed early that these folks are and are pretty good guys, and so the effectiveness on and so distantly is an impossible measure but the effectiveness in preventing kinds from using tobacco or drugs although obviously very important is the only measurement of whether or not that' s effective, but I'm interested in what, obviously Lane you feel that way, RJ I think you do, you do Ross but I'm just interested in what the school board. Jackson/Well I mean I agree with what you've said and it seems like sort of a strategy and yet in the absence of anything else the school is coming forth with we'd like to try this program that DARE seems to do a reasonable job of needing the kinds of things that we talked about so. I don't have a great (can't hear) to say well Dee let's go change unless there's clearly some other alternative on the table but I would not want to lose what currently exists with it. Lehman/Part of it is mainly the name, we use the name DARE and then I think we measure the effectiveness of success based on how effective we are in influencing kids when it comes to drugs or alcohol. I think the real valuable program is far more than just that. Wilburn/But I think that what your getting at, you know, the studies look at some of them look, what's more difficult to measure is the other impact. A lot of the studies I've seen look at effectiveness at preventing or relapse prevention and you know some of the short term ones will show, many of the studies will show there is no long term lasting effect related to DARE in terms of effectiveness at prevention, but again what your getting at is the difficulty measure where the other intangible, perhaps intangible (can't hear). Champion/And basically I think that's, we look at this at budget time but if the school district thinks that it's still valuable then I think we're willing to support it, the problem that we get into when you have relationships like this is it is pull out time in the classroom or the teachers think that they would really have that time teaching kids to read than having them talk to a police officer so it's kind weighing all those things but at some times programs like this teachers or principals don't really want them in their school but they're obligated to have them, so, but I think it's a decision you have to make. Reece/It sounds like the issue may be because we want to think in terms of focusing on police presence in our community through the schools rather than focus it on a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 14 drug and alcohol problem and that seems to be what's coming up is important to everyone and so maybe the police officer's time in the classroom could cover a broader spectrum of what we do in our community rather than just talking about drugs and alcohol. Wilburn/And that' s putting it in the bigger context as to not only what we would hope to accomplish but looking the communities response because there are service agencies, there's programs whether it be you know the DARE program with those grades, or the Safety Village related to certain things. So let's put it in context wit the entire package from the community, and an entire community response rather than like your saying Dee at budget time, well here's a line we can get rid of. And so that's my only vices, looking at the big picture and what is it that we could. Wallace/I agree with. Wilburn/What is it our one time officers do it. Wallace/I agree with the group, I think we've known for a long time DARE is not been an overwhelming success from the change in attitudes as children and older and so therefore I have no objection if somebody wants to undertake a good study of every program that's out there and find one that's better, we might consider it. I think the thing we have to do in the next few years if we have to look at this whole city wide, county wide situation of multiple programs that are addressing multiple and different populations concerning alcohol use, tobacco use, and drug abuse. I mean we have things from Stepping Up to cracking down on underage drinking to DARE, Mercy just started one to train physicians to recognize domestic violence or abuse alcohol abuse, what kind of (can't hear) were picking off the ends. Sometimes the drugs are that has a bad connotation, but you know if somebody's interested in what are we doing, how can we do it better? And include the whole population and not just fifth graders or 18-20 year olds or what have you. Wilburn/Are there any SADD groups in the school district (can't hear)? man/Yes. man/Yes there is. Wilburn/That' s another example of studies that have looked at is Students Against Drunk Driving in terms of their impact on effectiveness of behavior change especially and they are not just sufficient, not sufficient data, not statistically significant but that's a case where if you have kids that are getting together and saying, trying to reach their peers, you know funding (can't hear) but just philosophically I'm not going to say well you guys shouldn't have a Students Against Drunk Driving This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 15 group because it's not effective, you know that's getting into that bigger picture, (can't hear). Those are intangibles that I think are important to have so, (can't hear) but that's just a. Wallace/Sounds like we're reaffirming support on this. O'Donnell/I think so. Reece/Well my question, I mean in terms of the budgeting, do, I don't know how it works, do you pay a specific amount to the DARE program for materials and then the police officers are paid as well. Lehman/Well we pay the police officers, for the materials and cost of the city DARE program is what? Winkelhake/It depends on how you look at it, I think the cost for materials and so on if I'm not mistaken I think it was like $12,000 this last year. Atkins/I think (can't hear) went out, it's about $12,000, we also assign an officer full time so it's $60,000 plus for (can't hear). Lehman/I don't think we're here asking you to pay by money, do we, I just want feelings from you folks that it's worth our time, I think it's a wonderful program, I love seeing young folks interact with police officers socially in a positive fashion. And we call it DARE because we could put any initials on it that we wanted to on it, just the fact that they're there interacting with the young people I think has tremendous value but then obviously what I think of and (can't hear) your the school board. If you ever feel that it's worth while, you know, it would be nice I suspect if you could, Lane wrote a letter indicating some of that, it would be nice if you would take a look at it, I don't think extensively but send a letter to Council indicating your support for or unsupport for so we can you know put it in the record and just have it in file if it comes up we can indicate to each other how you feel about it. Kanner/And again just to reiterate what I heard I think there's two issues, there's the issue of the police presence and see if that's the DARE vehicle is the best way to get into the schools. I'm sure there are a number of programs, and maybe we need to hear more about police interaction with school, what's being done around the country and see if this is the best vehicle to do that, to meet those ends that your talking about Ernie. Then I think people, your bring up is something that we ought to see if we want to move forward on, a community wide response to people school age and use of alcohol and other drugs and cigarettes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 16 Wilburn/Maybe you might also want to look at just so thought, and maybe you have already as a board what specific programs, I guess two parts. What specific programs do the schools use to address substance abuse prevention, you can put it, your putting it in context, DARE context with those, but also looking at the entire rib of activity that law enforcement does have involved with the schools and I would be curious to see what your, (can't hear) in context with the groups. O'Donnell/I think anytime that you have a tool that opens up the communication between the police officers and young people I think it's a very valuable tool. We're all talking about other programs, we've got a program now that I think is very well, I read a study after 92 and there was folks that had gotten so much better, or quite a bit better but. We should be looking maybe at expanding the program to cover these things we're talking about and we're eliminating it and going to another one, because there isn't any recognition. Lehman/Well if you folks would just keep that on the burner obviously as an interest on the part of the Council. Alcohol Issues Lehman/The next item is really, in some respects is related to DARE but as you might have read in the paper someplace there has been some concern in the community about under age drinking and over indulgence and this is something that happened I think more than just the last week or two. Council has talked about it briefly, we've received communication from Stepping Up, the University of Iowa, the County Health Department, from a couple of citizens. Anyway we're going to meet with bar owners next month, we obviously have, I think the Council, all seven of us agree we have some sort of problem within the community and it needs to be looked at. I guess because alcohol obviously and underage drinking affects folks that you work with and I think we do have no question that we all read the paper about big parties from one of the high schools where a large number of under age kids who are having parties so this isn't something that's limited to high school or college, in fact it's not limited to young people but we will meeting with the bar owners, I don't know exactly what we're going to tell them, my feeling is that we're. I would tell them you correct the problem or we will and I think something needs to be done. But I would, from my perspective, and I hope the rest of the Council's perspective we would like some thoughts from the school boards, support for ideas as to how you feel we can address this problem. And we are going to have to address it I don't think there's any question about it, we've gotten enough pressure from and I think correctly so but obviously it affects the folks that you work with every bit as much as it does the University kids. So I think Council would be very amenable to hearing input from the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 17 School Board. Does the Stepping Up communicate directly with the school board? Schultz/Occasionally they do. Jackson/At least I get some letters. Lehman/Well I do all the time you know. man/It's not individually, it's not a program directed to our age group. Lehman/It isn't but then they kind of redirected themselves. Wallace/They have and I've talked to Julie Phye about this and she has no objection to that but the original concept was. Lehman/The University' s, right. Wallace/18-20 year old program which is fine which brings up the first question, and hopefully my only question but we really have a couple issues, one is the underage drinking in bars. Lehman/Right. Wallace/And that's basically the bars problem, city's problem what have you. And then there' s the underage drinking outside of bars, keggers, people's homes. Lehman/Graduation. Wallace/On the hay rack, whatever it is you know and people are doing it and we may have to at some time split off and work it to (can't hear) because we may have entirely different mechanisms there that we need to deal with so. Lehman/I think that's probably, I have no idea how many high school kids find their way to the bars, obviously some do. Schultz/There was a study report on the radio as I drove in that Iowa has a higher rate of teenage drinking than other states in the union. Lehman/I know. Vanderhoef/Would it be beneficial to you folks to sit in on the meeting with the bar owners just to get a feel for what' s happening? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 18 Lehman/Well it's a public meeting, your certainly welcome to sit in. man/When is it? Lehman/We haven't scheduled that, have we Steve? Atkins/No we haven't. Lehman/Next month sometime. (All talking) Wallace/If you could let us know and send something to Lane so he could poll the board members so at least one of us could be there. Lehman/All right that's fine. Wallace/That would be great. Kanner/I guess from my perspective the question is well before the question, certainly there' s a problem with high schoolers doing some of those things your talking about. The drinking problems are starting earlier and I don't think it's the earlier age people going into the bar and purchasing it. So the question in my mind is how can the City get involved and work on that problem with the school, in the school setting, that's what I'd like to explore how we could work together on that issue before people that are starting to drink at 12, 13, 14, 15, they're not going into the bars, they're drinking other places and so we have to find out and work together in the best way, what programs are going to work, how could we support it with money if necessary and try to set up strategy on that one. Lehman/Well I think that Steve's right we certainly need to be supportive, I do think obviously that's, that's a problem to all of us. Champion/You know what I think this all sounds idealistic but I don't think your going to take kids to take alcohol seriously until you get parents taking it seriously. When parents continue to buy alcohol for children's parties they're not going to take it seriously, and when the University allows huge bar adds in their own newspaper that serves alcohol, their (can't hear) aren't going to take it seriously. So I have problems with the pressure on me to take care of a problem that nobody else wants to attack, I guess I shouldn't have said that. Kanner/So then there are programs, Connie there are programs that are listed here that start to deal with some of those things, it's not, nothing's going to eliminate it but there are systematic ways to approach the problem that in the way that your This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 19 talking about and so that's something that perhaps we could look at through the schools and see what would be most effective and starting to make a dent. Champion/Yea because I think it's becoming a terrible problem even at the high school level. lt's worse than when my kids were in school. man/Middle school. Champion/It was bad then. man/(can't hear). Champion/I certainly didn't buy alcohol for my kids. Wallace/Same thing can be said for marijuana, if adults smoke it why shouldn't the kids smoke it, (can't hear). Lehman/Well why don't you, we're going to be, and any input that you have please. I don't, I guess I'm a little surprised no one on the school board is on Stepping Up's Board or Committee. Plugge/I sit on it. Lehman/That's right, I'm sorry, yes indeed. Plugge/I sat next to you at some of those early ones. (All talking). Plugge/And we have shared, Julie's worked with us. (END OF 00-50 SIDE 1) Plugge/Survey it's a State of Iowa survey, I can't remember if it's the Department of Ed. or who it is and we've sort of shared some of that, she's asked for that data this year, we're starting to gather some longitude data. Schultz/Before we leave this topic, I've heard Ames and Cedar Falls have regulations limiting access to the bars. O'Donnell/Cedar Falls has repealed this, Ames does have one. Wilburn/It regulates access to, if example there's different ways to do it. In Ames I think its a 40 or 50 percent of your sales are food then if you're under 21 you can get in. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 20 Schultz/It was pretty blushy in other words (can't hear). Wilburn/Or if your spouse or is under 21 or your parents, yea at certain times. Vanderhoef/At 9:00 at night or something like that. O'Donnell/I spoke with a Councilman at Cedar Falls and the problems they had is how do you distinguish a restaurant, and they had 50 percent, or 51 percent had to be food, well you can get into a .10 cent hot dog or a $10.00 hot dog, you can get into cover charges, and they really had problems there. It's, I'm just wondering if you can legislate drinking, can you tell a person no, the only way, I think the only thing that's effective is penalty, and fine, if somebody goes in and breaks the law because it's against the law to drink in the State of Iowa unless your 21. If the penalties commence with it, then I think you can have some control of it, boy, but there' s just so many avenues today that a kid can go and their very creative. Lehman/We're going to get a lot of time to talk about it. O'Donnell/We are, I talked too much. Kanner/Tangential issue with the cigarettes for Lane and Steve, with the money from the tobacco settlement, $11 million or so that's coming for prevention from the state. Are there, do you know if there are plans that that could be used for local communities for programs, if that's something we should be looking for for grant money for that, I mean for the school and the City? Atkins/To my understanding no, we are not going to receive any local, now there may be something in the education bill that was just signed, I just don't know. From our perspective in law enforcement Steve I was unaware of that there' s. Plugge/We'll have to wait and see Steven how if any of those will be our programs we can apply for them, if there's typically pool money we'll typically apply so. Wilburn/There's also a couple different funding streams that that money is coming through because I know the group fight now around here are putting together a grant proposal to tap into some of that funds. Kanner/And maybe it's something we can work together see if the schools there is money. Lehman/OK we'll keep under this on that. Highway 6 Pedestrian Overpass This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 21 Lehman/How did this get on here? Wallace/You're going to tell us you're going to build it and we're going to. Lehman/I don't think we are but I don't blame you (can't hear). Champion/I just don't think we're going to. O'Donnell/We spoke about it. Lehman/There has been some interest on the part of some folks who live south of Highway 6 about overpasses, in fact, and I use the word plural because as we were approached as a Cotmcil I think that there was interest in doing, and Steve you may have to get involved in this I know that some time ago there was some interest in looking at overpasses and I think at that time there was some preliminary work sort of done with some estimates, very very expensive, I don't, I have no idea the level of the interest on the part of the Council but I do know the level of expense. Wilburn/(Can't hear) maybe I don't know if you had heard yet but maybe some of the other, Pete you might know, how is transportation with Twain and south of 6 now? Is there one bus or are there several buses that getting students over to, are there (can't hear) say from the Broadway neighborhood or behind Econofoods over to Twain? Plugge/I don't know, do you know Jerry what route we have? Lehman/Jerry you need to speak in the microphone, sorry. Palmer/We do provide bus access for those students. Wilburn/Because is it probably the younger ones that are taking advantage of it? Palmer/Yea because of the distance a lot of the kids are still preferring you know to walk, it is a situation where safety is a major issue but as long as we provide transportation because of the safety concern we would (can't hear). Plugge/And we provide it because of the safety yes, because their walking distance to Twain. Lehman/Steve, give us some, we have decided to, I think we asked you to look into costs and whatever and I don't know how. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 22 Atkins/It was about 10 years ago we did a study, an engineering study to determine if we could do an overpass on the First Avenue/Highway 6 area. Basically come up from where Hollywood Boulevard come down somewhere where the fire station is, it is at that time about a $700,000 project, rough estimates today it's well over a million dollars to build that. The question at the time for the Council, and I think the school board's were involved too was that while it certainly would be nice safety feature are the kids really going to use it? And I think that's what we got down to, are we going to spend a million dollars7 Are the kids going to, most of us have raised children they got in straight lines not all the way around. Lehman/So do we. Atkins/Well so do we. There was a discussion about having one installed at Keokuk and because of ADA requirements the slope for actually pushed the thing back almost to the point of where the Kmart parking lot was and by the time you start to rise and you get up and you get down your talking about possibly taking out houses, and it simply did not seem to be a practical solution and we're talking millions of dollars. We currently have planned Jeff can give you some brief details about fixing up Highway 6 anyway, drainage, sidewalks, Highway 6 is changing the character in sense of it's commercial, more lights are being installed all the time, I think the bottom line question is do these overpasses really serve their intended to provide additional safety for the kids. And that was the parents argument, Jerry was not, and I think he remembers the debate and we just, it's all a good idea. Are the kids really going to use these things? Palmer/I think another thing you did do is you adjusted the timing of the lights. Atkins/That's correct. Palmer/Because there was a situation where you could only get about halfway across before the light switched and the city adjusted that so that the timing was. Kanner/What percentage are using the safety shuttles would you say? A rough estimate, of those that could use it. Palmer/I would hate to speculate on that, we can get that information for you (can't hear). O'Donnell/Do you know how many young people there are going to Twain, did you (can't hear). Plugge/Yea, we can get that information. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 23 Lehman/Well has there been any concern expressed to the school board or principals or whatever about this issue because it came up to a Council, at a Council meeting by some parents and the six years I've been on the Council it's never come up. It came up about oh two months ago, it was brought up to us and that's the only time I heard about it in six years and I guess I'm interested if that has come up to the school board or principals or whatever or if it's just a single instance being brought up to the Council. It sounds like it is. Palmer/It has not come into the Central office, whether or not the board members have. Reece/Was it brought up by an individual or was it a group? Lehman/Yes, no, it brought up, well no I think the individual may have represented some neighbors, neighborhood but it was still brought up just at a meeting. Atkins/I think there was neighborhood support, it just became, it's very much a practical sort of issue, to spend that kind of money to build those sort of facilities. Champion/Well if you have to walk a block out of your way to get to it, no you're not going to use it. Atkins/Well in some instances Connie it was more than that, a block, of course the parents pledged to make sure that their kids crossed over. Lehman/Well in some case they walk five or six blocks to get to the bridge to over. Champion/Well I was just thinking with the slope even I mean walking. Atkins/Highway 6 will eventually have sidewalks on both sides and I think there' s going to be additional pedestrian traffic. Wilburn/And I think that's why there was, why there was some more interest because south of 6 is where we're putting that up and so it would be increased traffic and that was what they were getting it. Wallace/Well it sounds like Ernie we need to do a little research, you know we need to know how many kids have to cross 6 to go to Twain, we need to know how many are on the shuttle buses, we need to get some idea if we didn't have shuttle buses would they use a pedestrian walkway or if we had the walkway would they continue to use the shuttle buses and we'd have nobody using the walkway. Those are questions that we need. Champion/Do you bus junior high kids from there? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 24 O'Donnell/Yea to Southeast. Vanderhoef/I have to bring it up but it's certainly one of the things that I would encourage you to look at when your boundary changes, besides interstates is where are the, not just specifically in this issue but throughout the community how the siting of a school and the safety issues that can come from boundaries that cross arterials. Palmer/And Dee one of the things that historically and I think the board now also have given new direction if we do look at what we call natural barriers. Vanderhoef/Barriers. Palmer/And that is one, now the problem that we have is that Grant Wood Elementary School is at capacity, Mark Twain Elementary has available space so that's, and those students are very close. Wallace/So could you move Highway 6 about three blocks from? (All talking). Vanderhoef/18 years ago guys, it's just one of those things that we always have to keep aware of. Lehman/The other thing that may, I think it really and brought this up and Ross your exactly right, is this improvement, the city is going to be doing on Highway 1 and it's a 8 or 10 foot trail on the south side of Highway 6 all the way from First Avenue? Vanderhoef/To the river. Lehman/I think it's that far, that's going to increase pedestrian traffic I'm sure and bicycle traffic and whatever along the Highway 6 and it may very well be the push for some sort of pedestrian go get. And it may, we also may end up having to do something with working with the state longer time to walk through, it's a big issue, you know the bridge is wonderful but if nobody uses it, it's an awful lot of money for something that isn't used. Wallace/Dee we'd be glad to consider all this in the boundary things, but we're waiting for Karin to come forth with an absolute assured 10 year plan of where development will occur (laughter) and then we can plan, then we can plan precisely. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 25 Lehman/Since I think the medical community could also give us some idea of the birth rate and whatever and guarantee that. Wallace/The fertility, yes we could do that. SIDEWALK/LIGHTING ISSUES ON FIRST AVENUE Lehman/I think we're, I think that Dee wants to talk about sidewalks and lighting. Vanderhoef/I do indeed. The First Avenue obviously is my neighborhood and so I (can't hear) I'm fairly aware the pedestrian traffic in particular to Bates Field and I have had oh over the course of the last four years more and more comments to me about how are we going to take care of the safety issue when there are big events happening at Bates Field. And sidewalks is one of the things that they bring up, another one is lighting right at the gate where you enter from the east side of Bates Field and I hate to bring this one up but this is my own and that I always walk down there and it has to do with all those cars that park in the grass on the west side of First Avenue and then they back out into traffic, some of them back out, some of them swing around and do all sorts of things and we're intermingling those vehicles with people walking without a sidewalk and there's sort of a scary situation there. Palmer/The sidewalk Dee is on our improvement plan, it was approved last year, it is being done as soon as school, as soon as we can actually this spring. Vanderhoef/OK, that's great. Lehman/That's wonderful. Vanderhoef/And then it will be posted no parking along there or? (All talking) Vanderhoef/I mean pulling up and breaking up your new sidewalk might not be a real good idea. Wallace/Yea because you'd have to cross the sidewalk to get to the (can't hear). Lehman/Jerry when you locate that sidewalk, I'm just thinking ahead but if First Avenue were to be, if turn lanes and whatever added, that sidewalk is located in such a fashion that it wouldn't have to be removed if we add turning lanes. What are you laughing about Steve? I don't know that but I mean it would. Atkins/You know we got the sidewalk Ernie don't mess it up. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 26 (All talking). Atkins/I don't know that's why I was laughing I. Lehman/You'd run that, Jeff could tell you where to put the sidewalks. Vanderhoef/That's part of the city's zoning should we call it. That was all that I really wanted you to take a look at and see what we could do to make that a safer kind of thing down there and I can talk to Steve and if we needed more lighting right at that area or a painted crosswalk let's talk about it. Plugge/One major problem with City High is it's half the size of the space you need for comprehensive high school that size, need 80 acres not 40 and that's not going to happen so when you look at parking, lighting (can't hear). Palmer/Yea there's five nights where or so during the Fall when we're never going to be able to accommodate all of the public parking (can't hear). Champion/Well everybody knows that. Palmer/But I think the City has posted signs. Atkins/We can post, we can, there's nothing, when the sidewalk is installed we can put no parking signs any time, and that would become a question. Vanderhoef/We can or they can? Arkins/We can. Lehman/I don't that they can. Atkins/It's public fight of way I mean I can't imagine why we would be able to enforce that. Lehman/Well of the five times a year that occurs how much problem have we had. Arkins/It's more than five times. Vanderhoef/Well it's more than five times by the time you get all of the. Atkins/Dee can I add something onto it quick? You were saying I don't know Jerry or Lane, it happens to be in my neighborhood so I drive by with some regularity also. I'll notice that Bates Field area traffic is just jam packed with cars and the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 27 out parking lot over off Court is empty. Is there a way you can encourage folks to walk further? Lehman/Sure. (All talking). Plugge/We can make sure they're open but I'm sure they park there because it's closer. Champion/Well ifthere's no parking signs they won't. Vanderhoef/It's by habit at this point, the community is used to doing that. Champion/Was part of your agreement with the neighborhood when you put that parking lot down to open it for athletic events, was that? Plugge/No I park there for athletic events before but. Palmer/We have it open for athletic events but we do have some regulations as far as when it's closed after midnight. Vanderhoef/When you have it for athletic events do open the Court Street gate for entrance that makes it easier to get to? Palmer/The entrance does come through our regular entrances. Vanderhoef/I know it. Palmer/Not it comes through the Court Street gate, that is. Vanderhoef/Would that be something to look at? That for out-of-towners trying to find number 1 a place to park and giving directions to folks and directing them to come via the Court Street. Palmer/No, I'll visit with the City High administration regarding that, I will say that at least the football games all of that parking is utilized to it's capacity. Again as Lane said we've got about half the space that we really need. Lehman/OK. Mobile Home Tax Lehman/I don't know why we're talking about this this is a State Legislative Issue. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 28 Vanderhoef/Well I'll tell you why. Lehman/I'm waiting. Vanderhoef/I figured you would. This issue came up to my attention last summer, I sit on the State Legislative Committee for the State League of Cities and this was one of the issues that was presented to us as a possible issue for our lobbyists in the State Legislature. As we looked at it we thought it had some merit but what we saw also was that it had implications for school districts and for counties as well as cities. And it was like we need to get the word out so that there might be awareness with all of the organizations that might have some affect on the State Legislature. I bring it only to your attention for that purpose that if you see something here that is of interest to you and if you wanted to take it to the State School Board Association to State Administration groups and I'll be presenting it also at the Joint meeting with the County but it's something that we might move forward and it's an equity kid of issue it can, it is nothing more than that and I bring it to your attention and ask you to consider it. Any questions about it, if you'd like me to go through it, it's basically, the rule has not changed on taxation for the collective, all the modular mobile homes since 1970. Lehman/This is true for manufacturing homes as well? Vanderhoef/They all fall in this category, anything that sits on leased land are taxed differently than when you own the property even though the modular home may be identical. Lehman/Do you have numbers that would indicate the amount of property taxes paid on the land that it sits on? For example the average size home pay them a lot as well. This one your not, do we have any idea when mobile home court operators? Vanderhoef/No I don't at this point for that land. Lehman/Certainly (can't hear). Vanderhoef/And the school district I think might be the biggest player in this whole thing that mobile home court parks are into County and all your little towns and your City, and so forth, and so it was just something to look at. When the law was written it was written with the idea that the value of mobile homes decreased over time and I think this has changed considerably in the last 30 years and you can read it for yourself and make up your own mind, the only thing I would add down there on the League recommendations is that all classes of taxpayers receive the same access to services such as fire and police protection and I would ask, add schools to that, this is something to look at. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 29 O'Donnell/Dee are you saying that mobile home value increases now over a period of years rather than decreases? Vanderhoef/Yes. Lehman/Manufactured homes too. Vanderhoef/Manufactured homes do, we have some here in the City and I mention to the City that the appreciation is there and they are built differently, they do last and. Champion/They are as big as houses now. O'Donnell/Yea. Vanderhoef/Oh certainly, the double wides (can't hear) are there. Kanner/Dee is this .20 cents per square foot subject to the roll back of that other property? Vanderhoef/It's subject to the decrease right now on after five years the home is only taxed at only 9 percent and then it goes on down after that and after 10 years it drops to 80 percent. It has it's own and it's a decreasing value on the tax (can't hear). Kanner/There that, but it still might so it would lessen the amount that we're just supposedly losing the 310 if you have it subject to real estate tax like other property with the 58 percent roll back. Vanderhoef/No the roll back, this is the. Kanner/It would be a different, we wouldn't be losing as much as that's put here. Lehman/I wouldn't hold that these are just (can't hear) but I'd hold on because it doesn't say. Vanderhoef/The roll back would only fit on the property undemeath the land, not on this. Lehman/That' s not what he's saying, the roll back on top of that. Vanderhoef/I know what he's. it doesn't. Lehman/I don't think it does either. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 30 O'Donnell/Dee do you does these modular homes increase at the same level that the stick built homes do? Vanderhoef/They're made of the exactly same materials. O'Donnell/But is there any study that says (can't hear)? Because I can't imagine that. Atkins/I don't think they do but Dee is fight because of the popularity of these homes they have become an item that they are appreciating where traditionally have been depreciating. One of the reasons it has to be dealt with is a tax policy standpoint it clearly is an equity issue. You own a stick built house the lot you are paying more than someone under like circumstances that might be one of those modular homes. And we have made a policy clearly we're going to encourage that emphatically. Lehman/Well. Atkins/Because there's potential to have loads and loads and now those neighborhoods have lots and lots of kids usually. Lehman/But I know people who have moved into modular homes retires there, one of the reasons they told me was taxes, because taxes are significantly less, it's something obviously we want to look at, it's too late for this Legislative Session. Vanderhoef/Well that, the pattern for League of Cities is that we will set Legislative things from the committees point in July and August and then it will be ratified by our State Organization in October to be put onto the list then for the next Iowa Assembly and I don't know what the patterns are for your organizations but this might be an opportunity for you to get it into those folks for legislative consideration. Palmer/Dee just so that you know the impact that that would have on the school district, this is not saying it should or should not be changed is that for our operating fund we only get so much money, it would only change who the money is coming from, it would not increase our revenues to the operating fund. On the physical plant equipment levy we'll do that in dollar per $1,000 dollars evaluations, it would have an impact on that but for the general operating fund. Vanderhoef/That's a different formula. Palmer/Yea the way that it's funded is the way to do it, yea. Vanderhoef/That (can't hear). OK that's all I have. Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000. April 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 31 Lehman/All right guys. Anything else. Do please look at the zoning thing and I really think we should have something in case we back reaffirming the value of DARE programs, let us know on the lights. Reece/Is this, is the joint meeting, is this an annual joint meeting? Lehman/No it's whenever you'd like to meet with us. Reece/It's great, let's do it more, it's really helpful. O'Donnell/I'd do it some more, I very very much appreciate it. Wallace/So see you this afternoon? O'Donnell/Yea we'll see you this afternoon. Champion/Tomorrow. O'Donnell/Tomorrow at 4:00. Palmer/Tonight is the education (can't hear). Adjourned 8:50 AM This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 25, 2000.