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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-05-15 Transcription May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 1 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session 5:30 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Kanner, Wilbum, Pfab Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Davidson, Boothroy, Craig, Grosvenor, Nasby, Fowler, Neumann, O'Malley, Kopping, Klingaman Tapes: 00-53, Side 2; 00-56, Both Sides; 00-57, Both Sides; 00-58, Side 1 Lehman/Karin before you start as you can see there is a long agenda tonight, to maintain your strength we would like to present you with this. Franklin/To go with my snickers. O'Donnell/Karin this is an incredible coincidence. Franklin/Thank you. Do I have a reputation? Lehman/Karin the only thing you must remember is that if it melts in your hand you're not eating fast enough. Vanderhoef/Now does she have to share? Do we get one? Lehman/I don't know of any ordinance that requires that. Champion/We could make one up. Lehman/It would take months. Franklin/We'll take that into consideration. Lehman/OK. Now you really are. Franklin/Are we ready? Lehman/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 2 Planning and Zoning Matters A. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR JUNE 13 ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 200 ACRES FROM INTERIM DEVELOPMENT RESIDENTIAL (ID-RS) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY (OSA-5) APPROXIMATELY 85 ACRES) TO ALLOW THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PENINSULA NEIGHBORHOOD, A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OF LIP TO 400 DWELLING UNITS AND LIMITED COMMERCIAL USES AND PUBLIC (P) (APPROXIMATELY 115 ACRES) LOCATED WEST OF FOSTER ROAD (REZ000-0016) Franklin/The first item is setting a public heating for June 13 to rezone the Peninsula property, this is a rezoning of the upper plateau to OPDH-5 with the Dover Kohl plan and then the lower portion of the peninsula as P for public for the peninsula part, this is just setting the public hearing on the 13th. The commission will consider this at their, will finalize their consideration at the June 1 st meeting. B. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART 6, AN 8.69 ACRE, 35-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION WITH ONE OUTLOT FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT WINTERGREEN DRIVE, WEST OF SOUTH JAMIE LANE. (REZ00- 0010/SUB00-0009) Franklin/The next item is a public heating on Village Green south part 6, this is an amended OPDH-5 and basically this is a planned development that was approved previously but expired. The location, the other Village Green items that we have on the agenda that are repeats are up in this area, the north Jamie Lane and the Wellington Condominiums, and then this is part of Village Green south in this area right here. This part is not built yet but this part over here is. Vanderhoef/Do you have a picture of the circulation, the traffic circulation through there? Franklin/OK the issues about Wintergreen Road and Rosefield Drive. Vanderhoef/Yea that' s what I wanted to know. Franklin/OK, Rosefield is this road right here and you can see that Wintergreen Drive is not part of this subdivision. This is Wintergreen fight here, the conditions that are This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 3 in the conditional zoning agreement pertain to Wintergreen being final platted before or concurrently when this area is final platted so we have a way of getting out of there because otherwise there isn't an access. As things are going fight now Village Green part 18-20 is before you for the OPDH, and that is all of this. If things move along as they do in the normal course of events there shouldn't be any issue with this at all, Village Green 18-20 would just be final platted at some point by Frantz Construction and the Glasgow Williams project here could proceed. What we have said is that we can't final this until Wintergreen is final platted to ensure that that happens regardless of who owns it. Vanderhoef/OK. Franklin/So it's conceivable that these folks if their ready to go first could purchase Wintergreen to get it final platted and do it themselves. But it's more likely that Frantz Construction Company will do it as part of the Wellington Condominiums. Vanderhoef/OK so how many houses go down into what will be a dead end basically until it goes back around? Franklin/Well what we look at is this coming out to here and the other provision here is that Wintergreen has to attach to Village Road, it cannot just attach to Sterling Drive so that. Vanderhoef/So Sterling Drive access from the south loop? Franklin/This is not built yet. Vanderhoef/I understand. Franklin/OK. Vanderhoef/What I'm trying to say is, what we're talking about fight now ends up in a dead end down there until such time as the loop is completed. Franklin/Here. Vanderhoef/Right, and how many houses are we building down. Franklin/That have only one means of access? Vanderhoef/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 4 Franklin/Just the ones in this. Vanderhoef/And how many are there? Franklin/Let's see, 35 lots. Pfab/And how will they get out, what's the one exit now? Vanderhoef/It'll be just up. Franklin/Out here. Pfab/Which isn't built. Franklin/That's right, this part is not built yet and so what we want to make sure is two things, one is that Wintergreen gets final platted through here and secondly that it's taken all the way up to Village Road and not just up to the Sterling Drive and connected over here. Pfab/What's the sense of approving it now when they can't get out of there? What's to be gained? Franklin/Well, this is a, there's some length to this process in terms of doing the plan development, that's a zoning which takes about 3 months to do, then you do the plat, you do the preliminary plat, and then the final plat. As this is all moving together both what your considering to the north. Pfab/Right. Franklin/The Wellington condo's and this practically speaking this is probably going to work out just fine. We put in these proviso's just in case. Pfab/But if the other isn't done there's no road????. Franklin/That's fight. Pfab/OK that's fine. Franklin/Yea we're not going to allow this to happen without access. Kanner/Karin could you explain what it means for basements mainly be constructed on lots which are abutted by sub surface draining system and there shall be no This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 5 discharge of route drains and down spouts, with dwellings into the subsurface drainage system? Franklin/Yea. This is an area that has a very high water table, and in the past we have had some prohibitions on putting in basements and in some cases and especially with the work that's been done with the ponds that are here and in the rest of the Wellington Condominiums which holds water. It enables you to put in the basements but we want to ensure that because of the high water table here that there is extra measures taken to deal with that subsurface drainage if basements are going to be installed. And so it just requires, instead of having a prohibition on basements we allow the basements but only with the subsurface drainage system which is basically a tiling around the edge of the building. And you can't take your roof drains and put them down into that tiling system, it has to go out overland. Kanner/How far will they have to go out overland? Franklin/So they go out to the street and get into the storm sewer system, just like any house. Kanner/OK. Vanderhoef/So this underground is not going into the storm sewer? Lehman/It would go into the storm sewer. Franklin/It would go into the storm sewer. Lehman/The issue is sump pumps isn't it? Franklin/Right, these subsurface drainage system is to deal with the water around the house and potentially around the basement so you don't want your roof drains to be going directly into that system because then the system will have a lot of trouble working. Do you see what I'm saying? Vanderhoef/You think it's going to overload the system. Franklin/Right, fight and so that roof drainage you want to go have it go off the site into the streets into the storm sewer just the way every house is suppose to be designed. Pfab/They have direct access to storm sewer? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 6 Franklin/Direct. Pfab/The underground system go directly into the storm sewer? Franklin/The sub surface system does yes. Pfab/Well is there a back, is there a back flow or a check valve there in case the high water that's the? Franklin/I can't answer that, I don't know. Pfab/I wouldn't want it to go in there unless that was there. Champion/That's an individual thing (can't hear). Pfab/Yea, well, if the whole system, say the water gets high and they can pump it out but it doesn't have anyplace to go. Now were you saying there are basements in some of those other condominiums up there? Franklin/Yea, their below grade yea. Pfab/Now where is the elevation of those? Are those up there higher than this? I know it's really flat there and there's not, it's all sand in there, well I shouldn't say it's all sand. Franklin/I can't say Irvin that they are absolutely higher, my sense is that they are marginally higher but I don't know that it's significant to make any difference. What's the issue? Pfab/What is the desire to build such a, there's a high risk there in case something doesn't work if your going to have a little (can't hear) little swimming pool in the basement if something doesn't go (can't hear). Franklin/Well I wouldn't call that a high risk, there's a certain amount of risk I suppose whenever you build a basement in an area where there's a higher water table. Pfab/What is the advantage to the builder to try to get down in there, to get more space? Franklin/A lot of people want to have basements, that was something that we were apprised of when Whispering Meadows was developed. Because we put a prohibition on basements and then the developers came back and asked us to lift This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 7 that prohibition and allow these subsurface drainage systems. And so this has been in Whispering Meadows, it's been used throughout Village Green. Pfab/And so there is a history of it? Franklin/Yea, but I'm not going to tell you that it's foolproof that people will never have water in their basement. Pfab/Their not and there never will be, just how much risk is involved? Franklin/OK anything else on that one? C. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 2.01 ACRES LOCATED NORTH OF WASHINGTON STREET AND EAST OF GREEN MOUNTAIN DRIVE FROM PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-8) TO LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-5). Franklin/OK the next item is a public hearing on rezoning approximately 2 acres north of Washington Street and east of Green Mountain Drive. This is the Arbor Hill development which was done as a planned development some years ago. The desire here is to plat 7 single family lots along Green Mountain Drive, these are the lots fight here. This lot, lot 236 would remain as potentially part of an expansion of Arbor Hill at some time in the future. For development to occur on this property would require an amended OPDH so we will review anything that occurs there. Basically what this is doing is taking this property out of this plan development and it does not affect the existing density there, and allows for construction of single family homes along Green Mountain Drive which is very consistent with what's fight across the street there. Kanner/Doesn't it make it less dense with the new zoning to a 5 to an 87 Franklin/Yea. Lehman/It could. Franklin/Yea it would, it would take it potentially what one could do because this property here, yea is now at 5 instead of 8. Kanner/One of the things that I've heard about dealing with issues of sprawl is perhaps keeping some higher densities in some ways on outer parks and it seems why do This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 8 we want to down zone this, why not allow potential duplexes to come in where it's already zoned that way, that would be my proposal, keep it the way it is. Franklin/Well I guess it's a matter of how significant this particular piece is in term of that theory, I mean I don't disagree with the theory that your expressing and it's one of the reasons that we've looked at higher densities along Court Street out in the Windsor Ridge Development and looking at more RS-8 now than we do RS-5. Because what we used to do is to zone everything the lowest single family residential zoning that was possible whenever we had any annexations or development on the edge. Now we look at a vatiety of zones and look at a lot more RS-8. You know that's a judgment call for you to make and balancing against the desires of the property owners and what the neighborhood is like and. Kanner/One of the things I'm going to argue also at the, when we talk about the group homes is that instead of just talking about where can't something be, why don't we talk about where something can be, and if we down zone something. Champion/Because (can't hear) tight. Kanner/If we down zone it already it takes away a potential site and if we want to talk about putting future group homes around the city we want to look at perhaps areas like this as a potential site and when we make it RS-5 or RS-5 is that right, that takes away some of that possibility. Vanderhoef/It's been a OPDH. Champion/But there is also still a small area on there where you could put a multi- family. Vanderhoef/You could also make. Franklin/This entire piece remains OPDH-8. Vanderhoef/You could also make a case though that this has become an infill piece and it's been sitting there for a very long time and it has not developed with the plan that was originally set out to be put out onto this property. Pfab/This is just a public heating. Vanderhoef/So it's marked proven in this particular case it would seem. Franklin/This is a public heating yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 9 Pfab/So I mean there's no other motions or anything connected with the public heating. Lehman/No. Franklin/No. Pfab/So OK I, it's good to make your ideas known and I think it's a good idea till we went to the public heating with that design but as long as there's no action has to be taken at this point but I think. Kanner/Well eventually action will be taken. Pfab/Right, but it's a question I think that you can start to address with a public hearing as long as there's no, we don't (can't hear). Or is this, if we have a public heating does this imply that it's going to go on? Well nobody, you really don't have to talk fight. Franklin/You, I mean you'll have your vote at the following meeting and. Lehman/That's the place where we'll discuss it. Franklin/Right, I mean it's, at that point you decide based on your own thoughts and what you hear from the public hearing which way you want to go with it. Pfab/But, having the public heating doesn't give it a blessing that's? Lehman/No. Franklin/Absolutely not, no. OK. D. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDNANCE TO REZONE 54 ACRES FROM PUBLIC/INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL (P/C 1) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY-PUBLIC (OSA-0P) AND FOR APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY SENSITIVE AREAS DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR PROPERTY LOCATED IN THE NORTH PART OF THE AIRPORT PROPERTY, WEST OF RIVERSIDE DRIVE. (REZ99-0001) Franklin/The next item is public heating on an ordinance to rezone 54 acres from public/intensive commercial to sensitive areas overlay and approval of a sensitive areas development for property located noah of the airport. This is the north This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 10 airport commercial park that we've been working on for some time. The zoning is as shown. The public that indicates that it's publicly owned but the intention of development is commercial intensive. And then this is a small piece that we picked up as part of the acquisition for the airport master plan and it is in an outlot which I'll show you on the plat that will remain open space. Kanner/Karin what does outlot mean? Franklin/An outlot is a property that either you are designating for, you have to designate it for a specific use whether it is for open space or agriculture or some times you can put it just as future development. And what that means is that it's a piece of ground that is owned by the same entity that is subdividing the rest of the property but that piece is either unknown at this point how it's going to be developed or it's being designated for something very specific like open space. But you do have to say according to state law what it is that your intentions are for it, you can't just call it an outlot. Did I do that fight? Pfab/Is there some wetland issues in that area there? Franklin/Yea. One of the issues had to do with some wetlands that we were displacing here and how we were going to make accommodations for those wetlands because when you displace wetlands you have to put them someplace else and we had originally intended to put it as part of a retention system in here at the south end of the commercial park but ran into problems with that in terms of it's compatibility of a wet bottom, essentially a wet bottom detention basin or wetland with the airport because of migratory birds. And so what we have done is made application to the Corps of Engineers to use these South Sycamore drainage and green way project as compensatory wetlands for those that will be displaced here. Pfab/So you get them away from the airport. Franklin/That's right get them away from the airport. Kanner/Along the lines ofwetlands mitigation, I've seen some studies that talk about how when this occurs the wetlands often don't remain wetlands for a long time and they don't function as wetlands did and if there was another place that was a previous wetlands. Do you have any comments on that or? Franklin/Well I think the only thing I can say is that in this South Sycamore project where we are actually creating and managing wetlands for that drainage project that the functioning of those wetlands, they're going to be publicly owned, they're going to be publicly managed, and it is our responsibility then to see that they This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 11 retain their wetland characteristics and so we can take on that responsibility. Some times if they are compensatory wetlands in which I can imagine a circumstance in which there are compensatory wetlands where that responsibility is not taken on by an entity but then they just revert to something else particularly if they're not done fight. But all of this is going to be done under the, not just the guidance but the oversight of the Corps of Engineers and designing that South Sycamore drainage area to be constructed wetlands. Does that answer your question? Kanner/Well just a quick follow up then. Lehman/Right. Kanner/Do we have a good history of or do we have any history of wetlands mitigation and keeping them up? Franklin/Well how, yes I think we do, Whispering Meadows is a wetland that we have created and maintained. The one problem we have with Whispering Meadows wetlands is keeping the trash out of the wetlands but they have certainly not reverted to a non wetlands state. Lehman/Aren't there certain, I mean we, if we mitigate the wetlands and move them elsewhere, we, those are put in according to certain specifications, we got it from DNR. Franklin/That's right, that's right. Lehman/OK. Wilbum/South Sycamore will be a significantly larger area too won't it? Franklin/Larger than this, oh yea, yes it will be. Pfab/Is South Sycamore is that going to be all newly created wetlands, artificially grated? Franklin/Well there' s a natural drainage area there that runs from Sycamore and then it kind of meanders east through the Gatens property and down south toward the Snider Creek Bottoms in that area and so that natural drainage area is being used to create a more structured wetland in which there will be constructed wetlands in stages, in tiers as you move further south, such that as the water goes through it will be filtered as it goes through each of these wetlands and then finally ends up This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 12 in Snyder Creek and goes out to the river. So it's not totally created out of nothing, there is some natural drainage there but it's being formed and constructed into a larger wetland area to act as storm water detention for that whole, a whole large water shed there. Pfab/So what it, so what your designing it to not only be a wetland but to function as a wetland? Franklin/Yes, I mean if, particularly in it's filtering process Pfab/(can't hear). Because obviously you don't want a duck pond in near the airport, I would imagine ducks and airplanes don't get along to good. Franklin/Well and we have a significant pond back behind Cub Foods and yea. OK there's one other item on your agenda the swap with Super Value that's item #14 that is related to this project, and it's to allow us to get this road configured appropriately fight there. Pfab/What property actually was swapped for what? Locate it on the map. Franklin/It's a little hard to see it on here but there's a couple of triangles here, I think we want this one and we're going them this one. Pfab/OK, OK. Franklin/It's in your packet. Dilkes/Irvin, yea there's, the exhibit's attached to the purchase agreement show the two parcels. Pfab/I was trying to sort out (can't hear). E. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ZONING CHAPTER 14-6D-5G1 REGARDING THE NONCONFORMING PROVISIONS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION RESIDENTIAL ZONE (RNC- 12). (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin/All the rest of the stuff is repeats. F. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-5) AND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) TO PLANNED This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 13 DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) AND APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN PARTS 18-20, A 19.6-ACRE, 10-LOT, 63-UNIT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT WITH ONE OUTLOT LOCATED SOUTH OF VILLAGE ROAD AND WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. (REZ00-0002) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin/First consideration on Village Green Part 18-20, that's the Wellington Condominiums. G. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) PLAN, AND APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART 5, A RESUBDIVISION OF A PORTION OF VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART 3A, A 12-LOT, 3.33-ACRE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT LOCATED AT WINTERGREEN DRIVE WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. (REZ00-0009) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin/First consideration on Village Green South Part 3A. H. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE VACATING, THE NORTHERNMOST PORTION OF NORTH JAMIE LANE, LOCATED WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. Franklin/And then the vacation on North Jamie Lane, those two are related again first consideration for that. I. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE VACATING AN UNDEVELOPED PORTION OF WOOLF AVENUE FROM MCLEAN STREET SOUTH FOR A DISTANCE OF 240 FEET. Franklin/Second consideration on Woolf Avenue. J. TITLE 14, CHAPTER 5, BUILDING AND HOUSING, ARTICLE H, SITE PLAN REVIEW, BY ADOPTING CENTRAL PLANNING DISTRICT MULTI- FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DESIGN STANDARDS AND RELATED AMENDMENTS TO TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING, ARTICLE A, ZONING TITLE, PURPOSE AND SCOPE. Franklin/The in~ll design standards and the zoning amendment to go along with that is second consideration. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 14 Kanner/Excuse me, have we heard anything about negotiations on the Woolf Avenue? Franklin/Yes we're working through that, whether we have all that paperwork together because you have to do a resolution of intent to convey, we'll probably hold off on that pass and adopt and have on the next agenda the resolution of intent to convey and have a public hearing on June 20 with the resolution to dispose and the final the vacation on that same night. Did you get that? The answer was yes. Kanner/OK. Were they looking favorably upon the suggestion of conditions of not being able to build on that area? Franklin/Let's see, I'm trying to remember exactly how it was expressed. Do you remember? Dilkes/Yea, we have a letter out to the three property owners involved, we've only heard from one of them, and we raised that no build easement in that letter so that's not completely resolved. Franklin/Oh I know how it was, we're going to have a blanket easement over the entire thing because we had, we either were going to have to have them survey to find out exactly where the easement should be for the storm sewer and the sanitary sewer and that was going to be a cost to them. So what they agreed to was a blanket easement over the entire fight of way. Lehman/So nobody can build anything. Franklin/So nobody can build anything anyway. Lehman/All right that addresses the problem. Franklin/If they ever want to do something that is contrary to that easement and want to have the city pull back on that easement they'll have to do a survey and come back before you. Lehman/But that would also require an action on the part of Council to change that easement. Franklin/Yes it would. Lehman/So they can't build without (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 15 Pfab/But maybe, when I think of following what Steven said there, is there, when we convey that, can we put a deed restriction in it? Franklin/There will be a blanket easement over it and with a blanket. Lehman/You can't build anyway. Franklin/Easement you can not build anything on it. Lehman/Because of the easement. Kanner/Sort of the same thing. Franklin/Yea, it is the same thing. K. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING, ARTICLE O, SIGN REGULATIONS, TO ALLOW BANNER SIGNS IN CERTAIN COMMERCIAL ZONES UNDER SOME CONDITIONS. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/Second consideration on banner signs. L. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM LOW DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM-12) TO MEDIUM DENSITY NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION RESIDENTIAL (RNC-12) FOR PROPERTY SOUTH OF BURLINGTON STREET ALONG THE 300-600 BLOCKS OF GOVERNOR STREET AND A PORTION OF THE 800-900 BLOCKS OF BOWERY STREET. (REZ00-0007) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) M. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM LOW DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM-12) TO NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION RESIDENTIAL (RNC- 12) FOR PROPERTY SOUTH OF BURLINGTON STREET ALONG THE 300-600 BLOCKS OF LUCAS STREET AND A PORTION OF THE 700-800 BLOCKS OF BOWERY STREET. (REZ00-00011) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/And second consideration on both the rezoning on Governor Street and the rezoning on Lucas. Now on these two if you are going to stay within the moratorium period you would need to. Lehman/Expedite. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 16 Franklin/Expedite consideration, waive your second, and do pass and adopt on items L & M. Karmer/Ernie could you explain the moratorium and expeditingness? Lehman/We'll do that tomorrow night for the public because that's when we'll vote. Kanner/Well for me now, I need just an explanation, a moratorium and I think I know but I just want to hear. Lehman/When we set the public hearing we automatically put an moratorium in this area where no building permits or I think demolition permits could be. Franklin/No permits. Lehman/No permits could be given by the City for any action in this area. And it gave the Planning & Zoning Commission and the City 60 days, and by the way it's the same moratorium that take place in any zoning, I didn't know that before. But there can be nothing occur in that area. Franklin/Well nothing that is not consistent with the old zoning and. Lehman/Oh that's right. Franklin/And the new zoning. Lehman/Right, which means anything that would, if you try to do something that was not consistent with the new zoning you could not do that. Now that 60 day period expires before our first meeting in June which means if we do the second reading tomorrow night and pass it the moratorium will expire and the rezoning will not have been put in place. Kanner/Is there a possibility of extending the moratorium? Franklin/No, no. Lehman/I don't think you can do that, no. Franklin/You can place a moratorium on a piece of property once in a 12 month period. Lehman/So that's the reason for that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 17 Kanner/Thanks. Vanderhoef/T. he need for expedite. N. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING, TO ALLOW WIDE-BASE FREESTANDING SIGNS IN SOME COMMERCIAL ZONES UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS. (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Pass and adopt on this big old wide base signs. (All talking) O. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM PLANNED HIGH DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (PRM) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY (OSA-PRM) FOR .48 ACRES LOCATED AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF PRENTISS AND LINN STREETS. (REZ00- 0004) (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Pass and adopt on the OSA-PRM alphabet soup for Premiss and Linn. P. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING, TO ALLOW MASONRY WALL SIGNS IN THE GENERAL INDUSTRIAL (I-1), HEAVY INDUSTRIAL (I-2), OFFICE RESEARCH PARK (ORP) AND RESEARCH DEVELOPMENT PARK (RDP) ZONES. (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Pass and adopt on the wall signs for the industrial parks. Q. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, CHAPTER 6, ZONING TO ALLOW OVERNIGHT BOARDING OF ANIMALS WITHIN SMALL ANIMAL CLINICS IN THE COMMERCIAL OFFICE (CO-l) ZONE. (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Pass and adopt on the animal clinics. R. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN ESCROW AGREEMENT FOR LOUIS CONDOMINIUMS, IOWA CITY, IOWA. S. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY (OSA-8) CONDITIONAL ZONING AGREEMENT TO ALLOW A This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 18 DRIVEWAY ACCESS ONTO FOSTER ROAD FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 500 FOSTER ROAD. (REZ99-0016) (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Do you want to explain this? Dilkes/Sure. The escrow agreement for the Louis Condominiums and the final reading on the amendment to the CZA or the rezoning, we have another call in, we have told the applicants attorney that if we don't have the escrow agreement by tomorrow night it will be our recommendation that you either vote no or defer it to a date certain with the indication that you will vote no if you don't have the escrow agreement by that time, just because this has gone on for a long time. Lehman/OK. Pfab/I have a question, I've voted no on this every time and the more I think about it the more I wish I can do multiple no's is what. Lehman/You' 11 have a chance tomorrow night. Pfab/What does the city get out of it for all these fits??? that we went through this gain? Dilkes/It's a policy question for you all, not a legal one. Pfab/Well I sure, I'm looking for the benefits to the city and I sure can't find any. Kanner/But could you just explain what the delay again is from their half, for the agreement. Dilkes/We require in the escrow agreement that money put up and I think there' s a quarrel with the amount that we've required. Pfab/Basically they agreed to something, then they want something else, then they want it forever. Lehman/No I don't think that's the case. Pfab/That was the original. Lehman/I know but we're not dealing with that now. Pfab/No we're not doing that, so it's just, it looks to me like it's you know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 19 Lehman/The only question here is the amount that the city is requesting is for the escrow to build the driveway is different from the amount that they feel the actual cost would be. And that's the discrepancy. Kanner/I thought though in principle we had agreed on a price, they said sure. Lehman/I don't think we (can't hear). Dilkes/No we agreed on the concept of an escrow agreement, we had not agreed on a price, and we ran those figures and we provided them with a figure and they have some argument with that figure. Lehman/And that's the problem. Kanner/Did we then throw out a figure of $16,0007 Lehman/I never heard that number. Franklin/16.5. Lehman/16.5 for the to build. Franklin/Is what we put out. Dilkes/That's the figure we gave them after running the calculations, I don't recall that being discussed at the Council level. Lehman/I've never heard it before. Vanderhoef/I never heard it before either. Lehman/But I do, I would agree with you Eleanor tomorrow night, if we do not have the signed agreements that we set, we defer this to the next meeting, and the next meeting, my personal feeling is if we do not have signed agreements that we decline both of them and proceed. Franklin/By June 13, yea. O'Donnell/I agree. Lehman/OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 20 Franklin/Mr. Mayor just one thing 1 forgot to mention on Item B. Lehman/B as in boy. Franklin/B as in boy, if we do not have the signatures on the CZA, Conditional Zoning Agreement tomorrow we'll need to continue the public hearing, I expect to have them but you never know. Lehman/OK. Pfab/Is this the same, is this the same thing? Franklin/No it's (can't hear). Pfab/OK I thought we had. Franklin/Sorry, I forgot to mention it, and thank you for the candy bars gentleman. Lehman/You know you were so efficient maybe you ought to give Mike's back. Agenda Items 1) e(3) Vanderhoef/Eleanor I guess this question is for you, you've put the resolution accepting the downtown streetscape Phase II into the consent calendar and that's ~vhat I can't vote on. Champion/We can just pull it. Lehman/Wait a minute, no, no, you can vote on that one, that doesn't have any affect on you, that isn't the one that goes past down Clinton Street or anything else. Vanderhoef/It's Phase II. Lehman/That's right. Vanderhoef/This is the outside. Champion/Right. Lehman/But it's the ped mall. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 21 Dilkes/I think you did recuse yourself the last time but I don't think that's the one you really have the conflict on Dee, it's the Iowa Avenue Streetscape is a problem for you, so I think you. Vanderhoef/But what about Clinton? Lehman/This doesn't include Clinton. Dilkes/I don't think you're affected in a way that' s different than other people downtown or affected on that particular one. Vanderhoef/OK fine. Lehman/Other agenda items. 2) (Item 6. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE ARTIST FOR THE IOWA AVENUE LITERARY WALK AND AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST THE SAME. Wilburn/Question on Item no. 6, Literary walk, this is Karin. Vanderhoef/This is one I do need too. Wilburn/Karin was this the item where there was some concern about a local artist being included in the, or am I thinking of a different project? Franklin/Well, this one and others, I mean involving Iowa artists in these projects has been a challenge in terms of getting the submittals and so it's something, it's something that we're still quite focused on, and in fact one of the pads in the pedestrian mall is reserved for just an Iowa artist for however long it takes us to do it. Wilburn/OK. I guess I try to encourage the group to really look, I mean it just makes sense in trying to publicize and make these a real draw community item if you've got someone local that is either teaching somewhere here in town or the University or high school, I mean there' s a natural supporter fan base for that that can help promoting it so. Franklin/The committee's had a lot of discussion of that and in fact as we've been starting to talk about the transportation center and the possibility of an artist involved in that, that' s been a focal point of discussion. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 22 Wilburn/All right. Lehman/I have a question Eleanor, Dee excused herself from this discussion but I can't imagine that there' s a conflict with her voting on the art that happens to appear in the sidewalk now. Dilkes/I think she excused herself the last time this issue came up. Champion/But she doesn't need to though. Lehman/But does she need to for this? Dilkes/I think if she feels conflicted. Lehman/Fine, thank you. Dilkes/Then she should excuse herself, I don't have any problem. Pfab/(can't hear). Lehman/Other agenda items. Kanner/Yea I have a question on this, the art, well I'm going to talk about the Art Literary Walk and then. Franklin/More drama. Kanner/I was talking to Nancy today about the contract, and what the decepting vote was of the 6-1 vote was concern about having one artist do the whole thing and not having some kind of out after the first block and Nancy said well there is some sort of out and couldn't really find it in the contract and I was wondering if you knew anything about that. Franklin/Oh yea, I have to get my contract. Kanner/(can't hear). Pfab/I heard, I thought I remember seeing something there that it was, they were going to do the block from Gilbert to Linn and kind of reevaluate the situation at that point. Lehman/Well Karin is checking. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 23 Kanner/But we're signing a contract that's for $120,000. Pfab/Oh I see what your saying, so that's the whole thing. Kanner/That' s the whole thing a six block. Franklin/And on page 7, article 9, Termination, at the very end of the paragraph, further the owner shall retain the fight to terminate this agreement upon completion of the initial block face if the quality of work performed does not meet the requirements of the owner. Champion/That's a lot of money. O'Donnell/Yep. Lehman/That doesn't count, if the quality of work does not meet our standards we can terminate after the first block that Irvin referred to. Franklin/Right. Pfab/But is that determined how what the pay arrangement is then? Lehman/Pay is put in there. Franklin/He will not be paid anymore than $20,000 per block face so the most he'll be paid by the completion of the north face of the 300 block will be $20,000. Pfab/OK, so is that equally divided for each? Lehman/Each block face. Franklin/Yes. Pfab/OK so he got paid for this proportion but. Franklin/Not to understand now we're going to make a judgment, what this says is after the initial block face. Pfab/Then it's all or none. Franklin/Then, fight. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 24 Lehman/Right. Franklin/Right, because what we're going to do is see this first block, see the quality of work, be satisfied with it and then go on. Lehman/You know this is probably a silly question but then that wouldn't be the first one. Are we comfortable with the durability and whatever this sort of material in a sidewalk as far as shoveling snow and that all that sort of thing? Franklin/Yes, these are bronze inlay's, he has done work in a number of other cities including New York City which probably has more foot traffic than we have. Lehman/But probably not as severe of, but this, they. Franklin/But they have snow. Lehman/Yea but their merchants take the snow off the sidewalks. Franklin/Yea. Kanner/Well along those lines, did I? Lehman/No, go ahead. Franklin/Well I, in terms of the bronze inlays they are, the top of it is flush with the concrete. Lehman/Flush with the concrete, OK that's fine, I assumed that probably. Champion/It would not be any different than those water things we have on those sidewalks you know or those. Franklin/That's right or a manhole cover. Champion/Manhole covers or. Lehman/OK like I said a silly question. Franklin/The stamped concrete which is another part of this I had some concerns about that but again this is recessed and I suppose, if you took an ice pick and you were This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 25 trying to you know break up ice on a sidewalk you might be able to damage some of the edges of those letters. Lehman/Does this, would this require, for example the ped mall, the City has taken over the maintenance of those sidewalks, this isn't going to require that the City start maintaining the sidewalks on Iowa Avenue is it? Champion/No. First/No. Lehman/OK, thank you. O'Donnell/And this total is $120,0007 Franklin/The total is $120,000, yea and as I understand now the University maintains the north side and we will maintain in front of Tower Place I'm assuming, and so we've got the two block faces in the 100 and 200 block that would continue to be maintained by the property owners. Kanner/Why only a five year warranty? Shouldn't we think in longer terms? Five years for a major piece like this doesn't seem like a lot. Franklin/Five years, actually in some of this pavement art one year is more typical, five years is what we have started using for our program and I got that from Iowa State University where they have had some experience using this contract so I think longer than five years would probably be unusual in the arena of public art. Kanner/So how long do we anticipate this will last, this material? Franklin/Oh a very long time but see this, what the warranties are is when you can go back against the artist and say for other than vandalism, theft, acts of god, chemical spills, whatever the other things are that are listed there that ifthere's any fault because of the quality of work it's that five years that you can go back against the artist. Now a bronze inlay, there are, I mean it would be unusual that you were going to have something that did not last for a long time. Kanner/Well but it was sort of a complicated technique of doing the inlay, anchoring it to the cement that's, that seemed a bit complicated that something might go wrong there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 26 Dilkes/I think the question is whether you would be able to discover in that five year period that there were defects in material and workmanship and I think there probably could in that period of time, there may be damage to it but that's not going to be covered by any warranty. Lehman/But neither would I, what I suspect is that he would be liable if the sidewalk cracks, we're only talking about his. Franklin/No, right. Lehman/His portion of it. OK. Kanner/And then the last question on this part, it says we can't make any kind of profit off of reproduction. Is that because of copyright or laws because it seems like that we might want to sometime do something that we might sell a card or something that reproduces this. Franklin/We can only do that with special permissions from the artists. Champion/Right. Franklin/And it is a matter of copyright. Dilkes/The artist is retaining the right to reproduce which is one of the copyright rights. Champion/But that would be standard. Kanner/That's pretty standard. Pfab/I think what your saying is that you can never reproduce it, I think you could but you'd have to negotiate with him and he'd have his (can't hear). Franklin/That's right. Kanner/I know we can reproduce it I'm just saying I could see a time when we might want to perhaps. Champion/And he might like it if you'd do that, we just need his permission to do it. Like we used a postcard that a designer has for a big poster to advertise a sale, she was you know. O'Donnell/Tickled pink. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 27 Champion/Tickled pink, but you do need their permission. Franklin/Yea. Champion/In fact you won't get anybody in town to reproduce it without the artists permission. Lehman/Probably not. Franklin/Right. Lehman/Other agenda items. Karmer/I've got some more, art advisory. 3) (Item #7. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION TO ADOPT PROCEDURES FOR THE IOWA CITY PUBLIC ART PROGRAM. Kanner/I have, I'm going to offer some amendments to this tomorrow and I just wanted to bring them up now and see what folks thought, throw them around a little bit. So this is about the adopting the Public Art Advisory procedure. I wanted to add an amendment that would say something to the effect that the site selection may include the University of Iowa State or Federal property for joint ventures and purposes. Franklin/What page are you on Steven? Any? Kanner/Well mine is different than yours. It would be under the site selection section, somewhere in there. Pfab/(can't hear). Kanner/On the computer it would be 162 in Site Selection. The idea is it's limiting where we can put things, it says that we can't put it in private property which makes sense and it's not necessarily true that we would say we're going to put it on other public property but I think we should leave that option open and I would add that amendment. Champion/Tell me that amendment again. Vanderhoef/Tell me why you think. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 28 Kanner/Well I could foresee us doing a project like on the Pentacrest let's say that we want to split the cost with the University and put something there on what might be technically their property. And so we split the cost and this would say that the Public Art advisory committee could consider that because it's not in there fight now for Site Selection. Franklin/Do you, it wouldn't be procluded though Steven I don't think because it says a site must be public property which the University is. Kanner/OK if you're pretty sure, it's just that things that we set down in writing tend to become the way things are and I just wanted to make sure about that. Pfab/What paragraph are you in ifI ask? Kanner/Well I don't know where what paragraph it would be, it just Site Selection it would be. Pfab/I'm looking at Site Selection but you have that, you have the text there. Kanner/Well this is what I would add, somewhere in there as far as Site Selection being allowed and. Franklin/I don't think it procludes it but it certainly doesn't call it out. Kanner/So maybe tomorrow we can talk a little bit about that then and if you have more input at that time that would be appreciated. Lehman/OK. Champion/I don't object to it being in there I just think if we ever get to the day where we have enough money to help ftmd a University Art Project I'm going to be (can't hear). Lehman/Well I think. Vanderhoef/Well our dollars are coming from public funds and the University' s come from the requirement, project percent of the state so it's quite different. Kanner/Or it could be some other funds they might want to put up an art project and want to share with us. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 29 Pfab/Steve when I read this here I think it's pretty well covered, it says the Public Art program will advise the City Council sites to be enhanced by the addition of art. The site must be public property, a situation where the art is visible and accessible to all members of the community. Special provisions may be necessary to make this site and/or the work accessible to members of the community with disabilities and I think the once you start making, that's pretty wide open. Kanner/That could be and maybe there isn't a need then, I'11. Pfab/As you start, and like in an insurance policy, the less exclusions you have the better the coverage you know that way. Kanner/I guess the initial reading I had was that there was an exclusion for private property and so it was talking about certain exclusions so I can maybe go the other way and but I'll propose it and we'll talk a little bit about it and see if there's any input. Pfab/If you knew what you were going to propose we could take care of it now. Lehman/No we should do it at the public hearing. (END OF 00-53 SIDE 2) Kanner/I meant that open competition shall be the preferred method of selection, there were three methods, this is on page 164, there were three methods that were proposed of how to select and I think if there's preference, if we can, I think we should have a preference for open selection if possible. I've been told that sometimes it's not possible and that's OK but I think we should state our preference for open selection so it takes away the chance of it being a club that's picking people, only certain people. Pfab/But if you, but it also says here that it may be eligible for gifts, and a girl, see if you, it's preferred way, maybe girls would be more preferred. Lehman/Karin you're on the committee, what's your? Franklin/I staff the committee. Letunan/I'm sorry, you have some input. Franklin/Just want to make that clear. Yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 30 Lehman/Well do you have a comment? Franklin/Well I think that, I'm trying to remember because it seems to me that we had a statement like that in here and the committee took it out maybe thinking that it was not necessary. The tendency so far has been to try to do it through the open competition. Lehman/But is it possible that you might have a certain type of art work you're looking for and there might be one or two or three folks who are best known for that and you would only like those folks to submit bids. Franklin/Absolutely, yea, or as in the issue that Ross raised if we're trying to get an Iowa artist and there' s a certain project and you know somebody that does that kind of work and you like their work, you invite them. Lehman/OK. Kanner/And then the third one for this selection for procedures will be the most controversial but I'm going to put it up here. That there be some sort of affirmative action or bonus points for certain groups for people who are from Iowa City, people from Iowa, for women, for person of color and a person with a recognized ADA disability. So this would in essence say all things being equal if you meet some of those, one of those standards you would get a bonus point in your favor that you would be selected so it's a form of affirmative action and I don't know how much we're allowed to do that but I'd like to explore that to begin that discussion. Dilkes/The ability of entities to do that in the employment context has been quite limited by the courts so I would be hesitant to apply it in this context without any additional research. Lehman/Well you can bring it up tomorrow night and we can talk about it. Any other thing on arts? Vanderhoef/Yea. Wilburn/Could I recommend that he tomorrow, he could type them all up and we could look at them in a block and maybe amend or. Lehman/OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 31 Franklin/I would suggest that if you make significant amendments such as the one that you've just suggested Steven that you send it back to the Public Art Advisory Committee. Lehman/That we send it back to the committee. Franklin/Because I think that would be a very significant principle we would discuss. Lehman/I agree. Vanderhoef/And then we would have to defer the item. Lehman/Right. Vanderhoef/OK I've got just a couple of questions. Number 1 it talks about financial donations and being tax exempt and I'm not sure what foundation or what way we can do this. We don't, is there a foundation set up for the art? Franklin/No, I think that was based on making a donation to the city which is. Dilkes/Yea I think so. Lehman/Which is deductible too. Champion/You can make donations to a school. Lehman/And specify a project. Vanderhoef/Without a foundation? OK. And then on page 66, fees back on it one more time because the maintenance as I read it here, the city assumes all maintenance responsibility for the work while the work remains part of the city's collection. I still would like to take a percent of the annual allocation of dollars for art for art maintenance. And why I say this is not to penalize or anything like that however in attending other cities with League of Cities and going on art tours the thing that all of them have told me again and again is that they do not have dollars for maintenance and what happens to them and is that things deteriorate until they are very very bad and basically one lady said I basically go in and get down on my knees and beg to get dollars out of the general fund to take care of my art projects and she said I'm responsible for taking care of them but I have no dollars and there has never been any dollars set up to do this. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 32 Lehman/I don't think that's part of the procedures though, I don't disagree with you, but I think from a funding standpoint that could very well be part of a $100,000 in funding that a certain percentage of it but I don't know that it's part of the procedures that we're looking at here. Franklin/Yea what this says is that the city as the overall entity assumes responsibility but yea, what you're talking about is during budget time. Vanderhoef/But I would like that acknowledged in here so that anyone who picks this up recognizes it's going to come from the art allocation. Franklin/Well that's a discussion you'll all have to have. Lehman/Right. Franklin/With Steve I think. Pfab/I think the way that it's put in here is an excellent way you're bringing it right up front, hey how much does it cost to maintain this and that's out on the table and so if you get, you have two projects that it cost about the same you want to ask a 100 percent higher maintenance (can't hear) then when you go to make the selection you may want to decide that that isn't your first choice. Franklin/Right. Vanderhoef/But I'm referring to are the older pieces that are there and we will start getting donations that we will accept some I'm sure and decline some possibly because of the maintenance. Pfab/But it would appear from what I believe Ernie said that that's really part of the maintenance of the city and whether there's parks or recreations or it's some other entity does it, that part would have to be funded. Vanderhoef/And my thought on this Irvin is that if we don't allocate a piece of the budget for maintenance it will be like what has happened in these other cities, if the general ftmd is strapped for dollars, one of the first things they delete out of that budget is taking care of the art pieces. Champion/And so this is at least something we should be talking about at budget time. Pfab/But at the same time I don't even if it was in here and it wasn't in the budget how can you protect that? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 33 Kanner/Actually I think a good thing would be to put requirement that when the Art Advisory Committee submits something to us they also include what their projected budget for maintenance would be dollar wise. Champion/I don't want to read all that. Kanner/And so I think there are two issues that if they do that and we put that in procedures then we still have to deal with where the money comes from but at least we get an idea when we're voting whether or not to do a art object what the maintenance cost would be. Lehman/It says in here, an estimated maintenance needs is part of the policy. Kanner/But maybe we should spell it out that we. Champion/It is. Lehman/That is pretty specific. Kanner/It doesn't say you have to give a dollar amount, I don't know if we'll get dollar amounts, I think. Lehman/What else, how else would you numerate it? Kanner/Well estimated maintenance needs are just clean it up every so often, you have to polish it so often. Champion/But then you would have to change the amount of money every time there was a salary increase for city employees. I think it perfectly spells out here that they have to some idea about the maintenance. I do agree with Dee we could require that like 5 percent of the public art fund be set into a foundation for maintenance of this stuff and I think it's a budget issue and not part of this (can't hear). Vanderhoef/That could be, we could allude to it here that it will come from a budgeted item. Pfab/I'm not sure that Steve you may not be onto something here. Yea we talk about estimated maintenance needs and maybe in dollar terms or current dollar terms or something like that. In other words you know you spit polish or whatever you do and at this at today's prices it would cost about so much to do it. I don't think This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 34 that's a bad idea, we just talk what we have to do to maintain it, but if you want to know how much is the, whatever you do normally going to cost in today's (can't hear). Lehman/You could put estimated needs and costs (can't hear). Champion/Yea I think that would be a great idea. Lehman/OK. Vanderhoef/Have (can't hear). Lehman/Other discussion. 4). (e( 1 )) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST THE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR TEMPORARY USE OF PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND IOWA CITY COFFEE CO. D/B/A THE JAVA HOUSE FOR A SIDEWALK CAFE. (RENEWAL) Kanner/I've got some questions on the consent calendar. Number E temporary use of sidewalk by Java House, is that something you make all the restaurants that do sidewalk cafes go through such an extensive thing? Karr/All of the ones that use the city fight of way does this on a yearly basis and this is a renewal. Lehman/Right. 5) (e(2)) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION NAMING DEPOSITORIES. Kanner/And then I had a question for Kevin I guess and Steve about the depositories. Could you explain why we're increasing the amount that we might be deposit at two of the banks an additional 25 million at First Star and 15 million at Freedom? And why not increasing it at other places and why did we add the new bank? We added one new bank. O'Malley/Steven we increase those every time they come in and ask us for more capacity. Each time we have a name change we go around and call each individual bank and say your at this level do you want to raise or lower it and they raise or lower it depending upon their depository needs. We would like to see them have high limits because we like to have competition among the banks. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 35 Kanner/So that gives us more flexibility the higher the limit we can do more things? O'Malley/That's correct. Kanner/OK. O'Malley/And the second question was what? Kanner/So this was a new bank, a new bank change, a merger, and they came in and they gave us a better deal. O'Malley/That's fight, actually First Star was there and Merchant, Mercantile was there and so we're combining those and we needed more capacity otherwise we would lose capacity if only one named statement. Kanner/And we added a new bank. O'Malley/And we added Freedom Savings Bank in Coralville, they have that fight there on Holiday Road and First Avenue in Coralville. Kanner/That's a new bank. O'Malley/lt's a new bank, actually it looks like a trailer. Atkins/It is a trailer. O'Malley/It's a trailer. Kanner/Yea I've seen it. Lehman/That's so the money is mobile. O'Malley/I think their a chartering (can't hear). Pfab/They've got the hitch still. O'Malley/They are going to build a facility. Pfab/But it says a bank I noticed down here on Gilbert Street oh Hills Bank, (can't hear) 3 or 4 blocks, there's a little drive in there. O'Malley/I'm not familiar with that one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 36 Champion/That's the one that's (can't hear). Lehman/Farmers and Merchants Bank out of Lone Tree O'Malley/Farmers and Merchants Bank out of Lone Tree, they're not on our resolution. Pfab/I'm just wondering I mean did they slip through the crack? O'Malley/Yes they have because we're not aware of them. Kanner/Thank you. Lehman/Anything else on the agenda items? 6). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION OF INTENT TO CONVEY 1512 DICKINSON LANE AND SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR JUNE 13, 2000. Vanderhoef/Just one thing, Number 17, the resolution says that this is part of the tenant to ownership program and in the comment it says affordable dream home program and I kind of think it's the latter. Lehman/Which is the same program isn't it? Vanderhoef/No, they are two different. Atkins/It is the latter, yea. It's ADHOP. Vanderhoef/Yea so the resolution states it differently. Kanner/Yea it was a little confusing. Atkins/I'll check that for you by tomorrow night. Lehman/Any other agenda items? 7) PUBLIC HEARING ON AMENDING THE FY2000 OPERATING BUDGET. Kanner/Yea I have a couple, do we have a separate one for the budget amendment? Lehman/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 37 Kanne~ OK. Lehman/I think we do. Kanner/A separate category here that we're? I don't see it so I guess I'I1 ask my question. Wilburn/It's for tonight, for tonight's discussion. Kanner/For tonight's work session. Could you explain. Atkins/You were going to ask about the? Kanner/Budget amendment. Atkins/Yea that's fine, good time to do it Steve. Kanner/What's that? Atkins/Now' s the time to do it fight. Kanner/OK. Where did the extra, we had, well there's a few things in revenue and this starts on page 225 in our the whole budget amendment and page 225. (can't hear). Kanner/Yea but in the computer so. Atkins/Page 225 in the computer. Kanner/In the computer, about revenue, what we're going to vote on the resolution. We had $112,000 of more revenue in other city taxes, is that just because we had more property value coming in? Atkins/Could be a variety of reasons, it only take for a number that size on the property tax when your discussing $30 million dollars just a fraction of a percentage would yield that kind of money for us. Kanner/Well this was 33 percent over the budget. Atkins/I'd have to look up the specifics of that one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 38 O'Malley/Over the budget? Kanner/Yea. 33 percent of what was budgeted if I'm reading it right, that's what I want to make sure, in revenue the other city taxes. I don't know what it is in the booklet here but it's the resolution, the. Pfab/It's line 6, is that what your talking about? Kanner/Let me get to it here. Pfab/The whole budget certification of last or last amended $460,000. Kanner/Yea line 6. Atkins/Oh I get you, OK. Kanner/OK that might be a better way to do it. Atkins/That's hotel/motel tax Steve. Kanner/And so there were, we (can't hear) that there were more people coming into the area than we counted on. Atkins/The Hotel/Motel tax is a percentage of their receipts, that means just that that apparently the hotel/motels did better than we anticipated in the budget. Kanner/OK. Atkins/Because we were providing, we, that tax generated $570,000 as opposed to our budget estimate $460,000. Lehman/This just corrects figures accurately is that right? Atkins/It's not really correct in the sense of during the course of the year. Lehman/Adjusts to action. Atkins/Bids come in higher or lower, taxes come in higher or lower, it's a whole compilation and the reason we put it in this document is substantially for posterity as well to review by our auditors. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 39 Kanner/And I just want to get at why, how we estimate one thing and then come up with another and so. Atkins/And that's fine Steve, sometimes it's, we just (can't hear) a bad estimate. Kanner/I understand and that happens, and I just want to. Atkins/Rarely does that happen, excuse me. Vanderhoef/It's in our favor though. Champion/I'd rather you underestimate than overestimate. Kanner/But I just want it explored a little bit and for me to understand the whole budget and where we're coming from and when we talk about figures. O'Malley/Steven one of the accounting convention is to be conservative in your estimates, and in revenues you always be conservative low and expenditures a little higher, so that's why you'll see a larger increase usually in revenues because we try to make that low enough and be happily surprised when one comes in. Kanner/Well what' s a percentage frame that's acceptable for being off (can't hear). O'Malley/It depends on the activity, some we can determine, some we cannot. Atkins/I was going to say Steve, property tax less than 2 percent we can usually hit that one very, permit fees we try to take a historical perspective and all of a sudden we have a boom here with respect to building permits, that will change that. And we try to check those aberrations over the years when we make our estimates. Kanner/Why number 13 other financing sources, that's 13 percent what, $15 million addition, 16, almost close to $16 million, what are the other financing sources? 0'Malley/That's bonded indebtedness, financing the capital project. Kanner/So is that fluctuations in the rates that were paid or not have to pay? O'Malley/Yea some of that is also grants, federal grants, state grants, and sometimes we get money coming in at different timing, to get it at one fiscal year earlier or later than the fiscal year and that's basically our CIP process, it moves around a bit. We think we're going to do projects one year and all of a sudden another priority This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 40 comes up because we get financing for it so we'll rush that in and do that instead. That's why that number can be quite large. Pfab/Is that also what sometimes you anticipate getting federal funds? O'Malley/That's right. Pfab/Grants and then their delayed for whatever, nothing to do with us, the city? O'Malley/Right, part of the process of getting grant money. Champion/(can't hear). Lehman/Well isn't that also true with projects like Captain Irish that took 2 ½ years to build and we anticipated expenditure in the first year and it ended up going 1 st, 2nd and finally paid off in the 3rd year. O'Malley/That's correct Ernie. Lehman/Represented no real change in capital improvements just when it was paid. Kanner/That makes sense. O'Malley/Yea that's kind of anomaly in the budgeting process, this is the statutory document and we have to be high rather than low otherwise we can be penalized so we always try to, even though all these projects, that $15 million, we probably won't succeed in doing all that this year but we want to have the authority just in case we have the good nature and good luck to do that. Kanner/Let me ask you about expenditures, why #18 their policy and administration. It was budgeted for $9 million and the current amendment is $871,000, that's about close to 10 percent. O'Malley/That's correct. Kanner/And why is there a big difference on that? O'Malley/In, well let's see. Kanner/Mayor, Council, Clerk, legal, etc. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 41 O'Malley/We also have our funding so (can't hear) that includes mostly our offices and non operating admin and non operating revenue includes things that Council decides later on in the year, I believe there might be $240,000 of that is the expected purchase of the John Wilson property across the street. The other one would be in the CIP. Atkins/We'll have to look them up, we can look them up for you. O'Malley/These are comprised of 200 amendment with maybe 5 to 10 transactions per amendment. Lehman/And these are all in here. O'Malley/They're all in the book, they're all in the (can't hear). Kanner/I guess it's just hard for me to put it all together. Atkins/The problem Steve is that this form is a state form that they pass out to all cities whether your 200 people or 200,000 and that's why we prepare the detail that we prepare, we can go back and reconstruct that number for you if you'd like before tomorrow evening, that's fine, we could do that. Kanner/If you could, I'd sure appreciate that. O'Malley/The other aspect is that Steven is those numbers in that current amendment count also include capital expenditures so there's probably some other capital expenditures there policy admin. related such as the addition of the second floor, third floor here and (can't hear), plus that $240,000. Atkins/We'll reconstruct it for you, we'll have it for you by tomorrow night. Lehman/Other agenda items. 8). (Item No. 10). AMENDING TITLE 3 OF THE CITY CODE ENTITLED "FINANCES, TAXATION AND FEES," CHAPTER 4 ON CITY UTILITIES TO INCREASE OR CHANGE THE RATES FOR FEES AND CHARGES FOR POTABLE WATER USE AND SERVICE, AND WASTEWATER TREATMENT. Ka~mer/Yea, Ernie I'm, let's see I don't think this is on the other work session items so the increase on the water fees. I'm going to bring up an amendment tomorrow about the monthly usage fee for the water rates. There's an amendment to go to a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 42 percent and Ernie we've talked a little bit about his before how I feel I it's unfair how the larger you are the more water you use at a certain level you get a break. So I wanted to offer an amendment that would take away some of that over the next few years and I'm going to propose that it be 3 1/3 come 33 percent each over the next three years that difference come down. Right now it goes from 349 cubic foot up to 3,000, 100 to 3,000 cubic feet and then it goes down to 251 a cubic foot if over 3,000 and that gives a break to those big users. Lehman/Same as what your electric rates that you get from the power company and your gas rates you get from the gas company. Kanner/Yea and I think that' s wrong too, that encourages waste I think, I think we should be going the other way, and I'll write that up and offer it as an amendment tomorrow and hopefully we can have some discussion on that. And you at one time said there was some economy scale and if the staff has any information on how much that economy of scale saves us, or saves that person if it matches the percentage of that their paying lower, I'd like to see that, if there is any of that information. Lehman/Well we can, I don't know that tomorrow night is the night to go through that, but we can go through. Atkins/I'm not prepared to do it tonight. Lehman/Well no but I'm not, the water discussion, I don't know, how much of a thumbnail sketch you want to give of that. Atkins/The water rates that your considering are consistent with the plan put in place in 95, that has not changed. Lehman/Right. Atkins/And that schedule remains the same. The policy remains the same 20 percent cash accumulation and that doesn't change. We pledged income for the major capital projects, both water and waste water. We have authorized contracts if Steven is proposing you wish to change how you collect the revenue that in a sense the total dollars don't change, that's certainly acceptable and can be discussed, you can amend those almost anytime you want, you don't have to do this on the spot. Lehman/Yea, my. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 43 Atkins/It's total income that we have to pledge for the purposes of our on sale pledge. Lehman/And I think we have discussed going over the way we have set our water rates at some work session. Champion/We should do it at a work session. Lehman/Well and I think we will go over that and unless there's four people that want to go through it all tomorrow night I'm not interested. Champion/I'm not. Lehman/I think we need to go through this process but I have no problem with you looking at the rates and showing justification for the rates that we have but I think that's a, and we were to go through those in a month and decide they were wrong we can go back and change the water rate. Atkins/So you understand as long as the income stream is satisfied. Lehman/Well I'm well aware of that. Atkins/A total amount of income, you can amend the rates virtually anytime you want you have full authority to do that and redistribute how that income is generated but this is in keeping with policy established in 95. Lehman/OK. Kanner/Emie, it might not be appropriate to do the discussion tomorrow, but we should have one at a work session like your saying, but also I think this was an appropriate time to introduce it as a public, at a public forum, where there can be public discussion because I think it needs to have some public input because this is something that's of concern and affects a lot of people and maybe the thing for me to do is to offer it as a separate resolution at the appropriate time after we have our discussion at a work session. Lehman/Yea but Steve, Steven and I really think, and I have no problem with public discussion, I think you need something to discuss publicly. Now four of us have gotten information in the past, you folks have not, I do think you just made the comment you'd like to see how we arrived at those numbers that has a decreasing rate. I think we need that sort of information to digest before we ask for public discussion, so at least we can do is know what we're talking about when we talk This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 44 to the public. And I think, we should schedule that for a work session, I don't think it's going to be a long session to do it. Pfab/Well I in conjunction with that as long as there's, your moving around, your just rearranging the furniture in the project here. Is our, how many minimum rates are used, or is there a floor below minimum rate or is the minimum rate discriminatory to really small users? Lehman/We changed the minimums, since we put this policy in place in 95 we've reduced, the minimum used to be, I forget how many. Vanderhoef/200. Lehman/200 cubic feet, now we've lowered it to 100, we've cut it in half. Atkins/And you give a discount program. Lehman/We also have discount programs for low income. Pfab/I (can't hear) but is so, but if that has the potential for discriminatory that would help to, still keep your numbers the same if you decide that water is a relatively scarce commodity and shouldn't be wasted even though there are people do use a lot of it that to help encourage conservation. Champion/We're not talking about private users that are getting water (can't hear), we're talking about industrial/commercial. Pfab/No, no, but if your getting more at that end maybe on your real small users there might be room, room in that and still not change the total number. Champion/I don't understand what your saying. Lehman/No but I think that you'll find there is a point below which you have to collect enough in any rate, you have certain fixed costs just in reading the meters and sending the bill. Whether you use you know 1,000 cubic foot or 50 cubic foot you have some fixed cost. Now we've reduced those fixed costs, the minimum rate from 200 to 100 cubic feet I'm not sure, I'm not sure you want to go below that. Pfab/I'm just asking, I don't have any answer, I'm just that's an question, and as long as your bringing up the mix it of going on a work session that might be something we can look at. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 45 Lehman/And we'll look at that too. Kanner/Yea I'll hold off on offering that amendment and we'll have a work session and then hopefully have a resolution to bring at our formal meeting in the future. Lehman/Yea Steve we, let's put in on for some time within the next 4 meetings. Atkins/(Can't hear). What? Lehman/Before the end of July. Atkins/OK. Good. Lehman/Any other agenda items? Library Referendum Lehman/Select the date. Is someone going to speak to us or do we just assume that having been asked? (All talking). Lehman/Having been asked to set the date for the referendum for the library which is in the neighborhood of $18 million dollars for the general election in November. Is there discussion? Champion/No. Lehman/I mean I'm willing to accept the recommendation of the Library Board. O'Donnell/I was going to say there should be a very short discussion on (can't hear) recommendation. Champion/Go for it. Lehman/Anyone have a problem with November date? Champion/I don't. Wilburn/It's a good date to choose. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 46 Vanderhoef/No. Lehman/Boy that' s a quickie. O'Donnell/OK that's over. First Avenue Extension (Item 23. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE JOHNSON COUNTY AUDITOR TO PLAN THE QUESTION OF WHETHER TO ADOPT A CITIZEN INITIATIVE RESOLUTION TO DELETE THE GRADING AND PAVING FOR THE FIRST AVENUE EXTENSION FROM THE IOWA CITY CAPITOL IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM BEFORE THE QUALIFIED ELECTIONS OF THE CITY OF IOWA CITY). (Item 24. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING INITIATIVE DELETING THE GRADING AND PAVING OF THE FIRST AVENUE EXTENSION FROM THE CAPITOL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. Lehman/The First Avenue Extension, obviously there's been a, pardon. O'Donnell/Want to take a break? Lehman/We'll take a break after we get past First Avenue. O'Donnell/Should be quick. Lehman/Well it should be just as quick. The First Avenue, obviously there's been a petition that is requesting that we remove from the Capitol Improvements program the grading of the First Avenue extension. Karr/Mr. Mayor could I just note that before you go on, there was a mistake on the agenda and those orders were inverted so 24 should be before 23. Lehman/Oh. Karr/Just noting that. Lehman/You'll probably tell me tomorrow night when I read them out of order. Karr/Well, just noting that Council has the option and should first consider the petition as presented so you have that option. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 47 Pfab/Oh good, that's right. Karr/Then once you vote that down. Pfab/I was just going to bring that up, do we want to? Karr/OK. Pfab/Do we want to save the effort and? Champion/I don't think so. Lehman/All fight 24, well I think most of us on the Council regardless of the position that we've taken on First Avenue, we all with some sincerity have felt that our position was representative of the majority and I think we've all said on numerous occasions that it would be kind of nice if the public had an opportunity to put this thing to bed once and for all. Do we have consensus that we want to put this on a ballot? Champion/Yes. O'Donnell/Absolutely. Pfab/Well unless we can take care of it now or tomorrow. Lehman/Are you saying that you'd prefer not to let the public vote on it? Pfab/It doesn't make any difference to me. Lehman/It doesn't make any difference to you? Pfab/No. Wilburn/I think the important thing is you have to look, and especially in a case like this, I mean Iowa City allows for this for you just to adopt it but I think you need to be careful with your precedence because with although some petition gatherers might argue with me, it's not, I mean it takes an effort but it's not a large effort for whatever Item to be put, to have a request for referendum and I think you need to be careful opening up the door for some possible resolutions. But I mean just being adopted without a significant portion of the community you know putting it forth, I look at some places like California where they have the propositions and there' s 10-15 propositions on it I think, it seems to me that it kind of short circuits This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 48 the process for opening up a perhaps some undesirable consequences just been adopted by you know a certain percentage of people signing their name on petitions so. Pfab/I have a comment, it was put in our own unique city charter that this is possible. Champion/Sure, right. Pfab/Maybe it should be taken out of our unique city charter if that is what your doing. O'Donnell/Are you talking the referendum process? Pfab/No, no, where the Council can vote, it would save the referendum. Lehman/Well that' s another. Pfab/Well I mean, a work session I'm saying, but I mean until one of you said does it make a big difference to me, I just thought well this is a way if they put it there, why did they put it? OK. (can't hear). Lehman/All right do we have consensus that we'd like to put it on the ballot? Champion/Yes. Vanderhoef/Yes. Lehman/Now my understanding and I have not talked to either of the groups who are opposed or support First Avenue but my sense of reading in the paper and being visited with is that both groups would prefer this be a November general election rather than a special election. O'Donnell/I'm not certain of that Ernie. Lehman/All right well now's the time to talk about it. Champion/I'm not certain about it either. I kind of, I mean I'm not necessarily against it but we're going to have the library referendum, possibly a jail referendum and First Avenue referendum plus a lot of people being elected to different things, nationally, locally and I wonder, I mean I really think you could get a back lash about all these things to vote on and everybody just voting no for everything. My main concem and Eleanor can answer this question for me is if we have to go This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 49 ahead and secure land for the water main, then in another year are we going to back to get more land for the road? Lehman/No, no, that's a good question. Dilkes/We've talked about that and what I think we would do is if you had a November election we would hold off on acquiring property along that stretch. Champion/OK that' s what I wanted to know. Dilkes/We would wait to find out what the result of the election was to see whether we needed water main easements or right of way. Champion/OK. Dilkes/But what we do then, what we would have to do then is when we bid the project, let' s say the initiative was defeated and First Avenue went forward, when we bid the project, Captain Irish and First Avenue in March we would put in our bid document that they would have to do the Captain Irish part first and that and they couldn't start on First Avenue until the property was available because we would need some additional time to acquire the property, four months between November and March is not going to be sufficient. Champion/OK then I have another concern, so that would be, OK if the referendum is in November of 2000, so you're saying then you would start property acquisitions probably I mean if the referendum was defeated, you would start property acquisitions for the road and the water main immediately. Dilkes/Yes. Champion/OK and you anticipate that would take how long? Dilkes/To be comfortable you need a period of 8 months at a minimum. Champion/So it could be 8 months to a year. Dilkes/But what, but Chuck, I've talked to Chuck gchrnadeke about this and he's perfectly comfortable with requiring that the contractor would start Captain Irish so we would have more time to acquire the property for First Avenue so I don't think that is an issue you need to worry about. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 50 Champion/OK so then, because I've already lost track of years, at what, in what year would you anticipate they could start First Avenue? Dilkes/It would all be part of the same project, it would just be several months later, like 3 or 4 months, they would have to. Champion/So 4 months later. Dilkes/It would all be part of the same project, it's just that they would start the Captain Irish leg and couldn't move to the First Avenue leg until the property was acquired. Champion/OK. Lehman/Well it would generally follow the CIP as it's currently scheduled. Champion/Right. Lehman/In other words it would be FY03 for First Avenue and FY02 for Captain Irish the way we have it scheduled now. Kanner/And the water pipe would go in FY02 with the grading if this petition were defeated. Lehman/Probably, the question I think is are there any financial implications for the city in waiting for a November election from the cost of the projects whether it would be water projects, grading projects, paving projects or whatever. Are there any financial implications for the city in having the election in November as opposed to having a special election for example in July? And I think I hear there are no financial implications. Dilkes/Steve do you want to address that? Atkins/Yea, financial implications are the matter of the borrower, whether we'd have to go secure capital projects. Lehman/No, but as far as the projects we won't be, we won't be doing projects out of sequence or doing one thing and then having to go back and doing it over again, for example putting a water line in and then having to go back and grade later would have cost us a lot of money. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 51 Atkins/No we will not redo anything, I mean I can almost guarantee that now don't forget that your policy position is that Captain Irish was to be finished before we built. Dilkes/But remember here we're talking about the project is currently planned, is First Avenue grading, not First Avenue paving. Lehman/Right. Dilkes/OK but still in order, it makes a difference in what kind of property we're going to acquire so the First Avenue grading would hold off, it would be scheduled in that project for a later date, we're not talking about the paving here unless you would change your policy position on it. Pfab/But there is a financial difference because there's approximately $20,000 special election that you'd want to do. Lehman/Yea, that's why I asked the question because if there were a financial implication for the city for example if we were going to put the water line in and an additional cost at $70,000 then I would favor a special election which only costs $20,000. But it sounds as if there are no direct financial implications to the city by waiting until November. Mike you said you had something. O'Donnell/No, you asked the question I had Ernie, is it going to cost us any more than? Lehman/Yea. Wilburn/Well I think it's also a matter of fairness too, because if August is the latest that a special election that could be held. Is that what I read in the notice? Vanderhoef/Yes. Dilkes/That's correct. Wilburn/I think something like this you need to try and maximize the number of people who are going to vote on it and that's not the summertime, that' s in the fall. I hear your concern about you know loading up some items but especially for something that I think can be as controversial as this is important out of faimess. And even though I don't like the referendum process because what some financial (can't hear) promote, educate their position you know even though I don't like that you do have to give, since we have, you have to give both sides the chance to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 52 get out there education (can't hear) pieces so I think November 4th or November whatever the time. Lehman/Do we have consensus on November? Pfab/I just have one comment. Yes I go along with that but I think that, maybe we'll even get more than a 10 or 15 percent turnout. Lehman/Heaven for bid. Champion/Well we would with this election anyway. Pfab/Right. Well I mean there's a whole I think the. Lehman/November election, take 10 minutes. Senior Center Skywalk (IP1 of 5/11) Lehman/I think we're being asked to authorize the project, we've never discussed it, now's the time. My understanding is that we've been asked to authorize the project, get the engineering work done so it will be easier for those who are soliciting funds to collect money for building the project. Don't everybody speak at once. Champion/Well I'll start because I'm totally in favor of the project, I think it would be a tremendous asset for the Senior Center and make it much more accessible to those of us who have trouble walking with our arthritic knees. O 'Donnell/Those of us. Champion/And. Lehman/Yes Mother Theresa. Champion/And I think it would be just a real plus especially inclement weather, inclement weather and I think it's a small amount of money, I mean it's a lot of money but it's a small amount of money we're being asked to. Lehman/It's a small large amount right? Champion/$120,000, they are raising half of it, is my understanding and apply for a grant for the other third, a third, a third and a third or whatever. And I think of all the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 53 money we spend on things that I don't think will affect as many people will as this project that I just, there' s no way that I can't support it, in fact I totally support it and I think we all should. Lehman/Well what do you really think? Pfab/Well what's on your mind? O'Donnell/I'll speak second. I support the skywalk also and I think we need to give the Senior Center Commissioner's actively working on this some sort of direction from this Council. We have in the past spent $200,000 on the skateboard park in the City Park which I supported, we have spent $200,000 plus on the Shakespearean which I supported. Lehman/$400,000. O'Donnell/I was trying to (can't hear). We have spent $200,000 on the Englert Theater which I did not support, it's time that we make the same commitment to the Seniors in this community, this will help people utilize the Senior Center and that' s our purpose. And I'm going to support it, I have since day 1 and will continue. Wilburn/I have a question just about, Mike you mentioned support or indication of support and that' s what we've been asked to do here. I guess (can't hear) what Connie was saying too. If we do this, I'm trying to think back to Scanlon Gymnasium, what type of indication and support did you as Council give? I'll let someone else answer that because in my mind it, when you relate this to the skate park and like that aren't we, we can't control their fundraising, aren't we in affect saying we're going to adopt this as a capital improvement target for funding all of it and so I mean because if they don't, if they can't fund raise you've got to cover the costs. Champion/Right, of course. Wilbum/So maybe someone can fill in the gap about ScanIon. Atkins/Scanlon was spelled out pretty specifically Ross, I think the project was like a million two and we identified various sources of funds and one of the sources of funds was the pledge that they would raise $400,000 give or take and they did. Council committed to the project, committed to the schedule of funding and as you know the folks went out and raised their share and after that it was just a matter of taking through it's normal. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 54 Wilburn/What would have the way to have a similar thing happen for this? What would we need to say? Atkins/I think you would need to say that we know the budget is approximately $360,000, if you were to authorize the design contract, and I can do that on my signature because it's under 50, that's about $30,000 of the $360,000. I understand they have raised $60,000, that's substantially in place. But before they can raise anymore money they need a commitment from the Council saying this is a go project and it would appear that you could put virtually any kind of contingency you want on the thing, require them to raise $60,000 or all of it, I'm not, I think that's unrealistic but. Wilburn/Right. Atkins/But if nothing changed and you make this a go project, we have $300,000 obligation right now. Wilburn/OK. Vanderhoef/One of the things that I discovered today in talking to some folks was a difference in how this fundraising is going forward than the way Scanlon Gym fundraising went forward. Wilburn/I mean I understand a building was not being built at the time, I mean Scanlon was already, or Mercer was already. But go ahead I'm sorry. Vanderhoef/No, OK, what is different fight now is that what they have raised at this point I understand is in cash in hand fight now. (END OF 00-56 SIDE 1) Vanderhoef/Being raised, it was pledges and there was a payoff time as I recall up to four years or five years something like that. Lehman/Five. Vanderhoef/So that when you made your pledge you could make that pledge to so much each year over the pefiod of four years or five years and this may be something that with us going forward with the project that the rest of the dollars can be raised more easily and perhaps more because that was the experience that they had with Scanlon Gym that they committed to $200 and as I recall they raised about This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 55 $240,000 as it panned out over the longer period of time for people to spread their donation over more years. Lehman/There was also a question with the Scanlon project, that was an excess of a million dollars and would have required a bond issue to build that without a sizable amount of private fundraising that would have to had to go on a ballot and been approved by the voters. By private fundraising we eliminated having to go to the voters to issue capital debt for that project so that's another significant difference. Wilburn/I guess the part that seems kind of awkward for me, it would seem to me it would make more sense just to set a figure to fund raise rather than a third your going to fund raise, a third somebody somewhere is going to get a grant. Champion/Oh I just threw that out because that' s what I read in the. Wilburn/Well I mean that's kind of what we've been working under, I mean I've (can't hear) but not in the area of structures. Atkins/It's an unusual grant and I think they recognize that also, CDBG program, this is a personal comment, is probably their best hope. Lehman/I think realistically if we and this is similar although in a much smaller scale to the design and engineering work for the Iowa Avenue Tower project where we decided to proceed with the engineering costs on that project which was in the neighborhood of $800,000. And we knew at the time that we authorized the engineering that in affect we were authorizing the project. I think if we authorize the expenditure of money for this project to do the engineering we are in fact saying the project is OK. And basically I think we did that, I didn't favor it but we did that back in December when we applied for CDBG money for a project that we never even approved but I think we told the public by making that application a majority of Council voted to do that and without any discussion at all which I, I think was a mistake at that time and I, my personal preference, there' s no question in my mind that that new parking facility is a significant improvement over the facility that was there namely a lot that was sitting out in the weather and I would, although I do not object to the skywalk I would much prefer to see that facility completed, see how that facility works with the Senior Center before we commit ourselves to spending $358,000. Now my feeling from the Council having heard from two folks, if there are four folks who want to proceed with the engineering, then I don't want to sit here and delabor the project, I mean ifthat's a go, let's go on with it and not waste our time discussing something that we're going to do. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Cotmcil Work Session Page 56 Pfab/I have two problems with this. First of all I understand that there was an opportunity in the first drawing of the parking ramp to have an alley exit that was shuttled. It was brought up a second time and it was shuttled. Lehman/It was shuttled. Champion/What do you mean? Pfab/It was, don't go forward. Champion/No we don't want it. Pfab/OK that was one thing, the other thing is that in some way it's a philosophical way another one, philosophical point and another it's a point of utilization, I think that the Senior Center is a very expensive piece of property and I think that is terribly underutilized and it was before the ramp was there and I think that there has to be some way for more of the public to be able to use that before they can support anything like that and I support the ramp but I think it's a, at that kind of money for that relatively low amount of utilization I can't go with it. O'Donnell/There's 50, over 50,000 people a year use the Senior Center. Champion/Yea, how can you say that's not utilized? O'Donnell/56,000, how many people are going to use the skateboard park? Champion/Where did you get the fact that it was underutilized? Pfab/Well I can walk through that, I can walk through that many a time and see many empty spaces, and I admit, every possible way that I can think of to suggest that there are other utilization's, other people have access to that use. I think to see a building that is, we have as much invested in there after 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon, it's a lot of times it's practically empty. I just don't think that's fight, I can not. Wilburn/I think there's a lot of places where you don't have 100 percent. Pfab/I didn't say 100 percent, but it's, I, it's a terrific location and there are other people looking for spaces and it's (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 57 O'Donnell/Maybe accessibility is the problem Irvin, maybe if we made this thing easier to use and get to and utilize then more people would use. Pfab/Well it's, it's pretty accessible I think before the ramp. Now the ramp is interruption to that, but this has been going on. Vanderhoef/Well what we have been seeing in all predictions is that the increase in our aged population and the number of folks that are moving here specifically in the upper age group to retire here and there will be more citizens using it rather than less over the long haul for certain. I don't think we can dispute those kinds of numbers that are increasing in the city. Pfab/There's one other question I have is I was trying to put together how the Scanlon, I had no concept, no understanding of how that went. So you're saying that the public raised what percentage of that? Atkins/They are going to give you some estimates or I'll do my best, the project was about $1.4, it was $700,000 in debt borrowing, $400,000 in fundraising, $200,000 that was an internal loan, that is they borrowed it from our park and acquisition fund and have to pay it back and I believe there was a smaller cash contribution. That should be close to $1.4 (can't hear). Wilburn/But didn't Council say raise $300,000 and there is $400,000? Atkins/Yes. Wilburn/And so Mike and Connie and Dee I want to say yes but my question is do we say yes go ahead with the engineer whatever and accept what they've raised or? Champion/I think you can rely on this group to continue to fund raise, I think you can rely on them to continue to fund raise, and they have raised $60,000 without our approval to even do the project. Kanner/Connie actually though I think it isn't quite $60,000, $25,000 was already there from a fund that's been sitting for quite a while so actually for this specific project they've raised $35,000 plus Senior Center Commission has decided to move this $25,000 out of this fund that' s been sitting there into the skywalk. Champion/Well then they show, then I still think that shows you how committed the Senior Center Commission and the Senior Center are to this project, that is a lot of money to them. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 58 O'Donnell/And to raise that much money without a commitment from the Council. Kanner/Well there has been a commitment. O'Donnell/No there hasn't been. Champion/No there hasn't been. Kanner/But also Steve I wanted to ask you how much was put into the Senior Center in the last year in the major renovation and remodeling? Atkins/Oh boy, oh we have several hundred thousand dollars invested in the Center but I also feel compelled to point out. A number of years ago we did sort of an intemal review, that building is an old building, we knew exactly what we were doing, that we were going to be putting money in renovating an older building. But it's downtown location, it's historic and architectural value to downtown, we decided to be priority issues and from my perspective that issue's now behind us and we've chosen to invest in that building and we will continue to do so but we have several htmdred thousand dollars easily in investments. Kanner/And rightly so and that' s a place where that's accessible for all type of people, all income levels use it, there's some great new things in there, there's a chair, an electric chair that can lift you out that I'm sure cost thousands of dollars to put in there, some new lighting. So Mike I think we have put quite a commitment into the Senior Center so I think it's a bit .... to say that we're supporting these other projects and not supporting the Senior Center. O'Donnell/Oh I don't think so. Kanner/The one thing I wanted to point out is people are talking about the great difficulty about having to walk great distances to get to the entrance. This is a map of the ramp, I got from engineering. This is where the Ecumenical Towers exit and Senior Center, the entrance on the alley way is about over here. Essentially people will be coming down this ramp, down this elevator right here for public use. So the extra amount they'd have to walk is 30 about, I don't know 30 feet here to the entrance way on Linn Street and that's the extra amount, but if there' s a skywalk people would still have to be walking, what will probably happen even ifthere's a skywalk is the Washington entrance people would still drop off people. So an ideal world we have a skywalk but we have to put priorities, we have a need for a homeless shelter, I'd like to see work with homeless seniors, this money being used to raise money to maybe build housing for homeless seniors. It's estimated about 10 percent of our homeless population This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 59 are people over 55 and if we could do some sort of housing to work with these folks I think that would be a great use of the money but people have been walking across this alley way for 25 years and I don't think it's been a terrible hardship for them, we have this great entrance way here where people can be dropped off if they need to if they are traveling with someone and they need to go through the elevator. I think we have a great facility and I think like Irvin was saying, let' s find ways to increase usage after 2:00 after Senior Dining takes place, that building is empty and I think that money we should raise maybe for an endowment for a staff person for evening work. I think that might be the direction we should head in. O'Donnell/I disagree with you. Champion/Well I agree that people have been using the alley for years but now we have a wonderful opportunity for them not to use it. Lehman/You know there's another thing about this project that we need to remember. First of all my understanding is there's no economy's of building the skywalk at the same time we're building the ramp. Champion/No. Lehman/In other words if this isn't something that's got to be started day after tomorrow or you know this summer. We have on several occasions done the engineering work for bridges and culverts and whatever and knowing how they're going to be constructed, we've done the engineering work, we put them on the shelves until the money becomes available and then those plans and specifications are then used to do the project. Well I don't think we should authorize the engineering if we don't intend to do the project, it is possible to do the engineering, accept the proposal that we have gotten from the Senior Center that they would raise a $120,000 and give them time to do it because there is no, I mean there is no immediacy to getting this project built. I mean there are several different ways we could do it I just personally don't think we should do the engineering if we don't intend to do the project. O'Donnell/I want to expand to, you know coming out of Lirm Street is fine, walking down to the comer of Washington and Linn is fine. Going down that slope to the only ADA entrance in the Senior Center is fine. If you don't have a disability, if you're not sight impaired, if you're not aging, if you don't have any trouble walking, but if you do then the skywalk indeed to me makes a lot of sense. O'Donnell/And we all are. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 60 Kanner/Well there are two entrances, ADA entrances. O'Donnell/Well, which, where's the other one? Kanner/There's one on Washington and there' s one on the alley way. O'Donnell/There's one on the alley way, but again you've got to cross the alley in all types of weather and I'm just not, I have favored the skywalk, I do today. Jay Honohan/Mr. Mayor can we make a comment? Lehman/Generally no Jay but get up there and make it quick. Champion/I don't think he knows how to be quick. Lehman/Yea he's going to know how to be quick. Honohan/Let me start out with a few statistics for you. Lehman/Now don't get to long now Jay. Honohan/I won't, 67 percent of the people, and the only survey taken by the University of Iowa drive their cars to get to the Senior Center. Nine percent fide with some of the others, so we have over 75 percent of the people who go to the Senior Center going there by car and hopefully they'll be parking in the ramp and the skywalk would provide an ideal way for them to get from the ramp to the Senior Center. It's the safest, most convenient and most accessible route. The Senior Center I have to say we're not happy with the cost, we wish it was a lot less, I think if you wait a year it'll be a lot more, things always go up with construction. But it's the fight thing to do, it's the fight thing for the city to do. Just like you decided tonight that your going to do a $120,000 for artwork that you think is important to the downtown projects. Your also going to do other projects in the city, the entire beautification of the downtown, you did that because it was the best thing to do in your opinion to help downtown Iowa City. The Senior Center is a big magnet for downtown Iowa City. We feel very strongly that the skywalk will increase the access to the Senior Center. Twenty-nine percent of the people surveyed said the biggest problem with coming to the Senior Center was parking and access to the Center. 56 percent of the people said they have difficulty going from the old parking lot across that alley to get to the Senior Center. Now the fact that we've done things for 25 years doesn't cut any ice with me because that was wrong 25 years and it's still wrong to make them come across an alley or to walk This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 61 clear around to Washington Street to get into that building. And I don't know, Steve must leave early because I'm at the Senior quite often on regular occasions, my wife calls this my new full time job and that place has travelogues, and card players, and pool players, every office on the second floor is full until 5:00, it's a very busy place. We feel very strongly about this but we can't raise anymore money because they keep telling us the financial institutions say where's the City Council on this? We have a couple of idea for funds we have a federal government project we are considering with the highway, the Federal Highway Commission strangely enough they do fund projects like this, I'm not sure we'll get it but until we've got a sponsoring agency we can't even apply. We can raise more money, we have people saying they will give us money if the City Council commits but we can't get a commitment. I know I'm going all the way to long Ernie but I think the reason we didn't get any CDBG money was because we didn't have a finn commitment from the City Council. Lehman/We applied for it. Honohan/Well we applied for it and all I got at that meeting in front of that board was well their not for it, the Mayor said this, he's not for it, why you don't have the Council's commitment, those were the questions we got at that meeting. Lehman/Also the fact that it wasn't rated as a high priority when viewed with all of the rest of the projects that were presented. Honohan/(can't hear). Three people rated it so, and the ones, even the chair as quoted by the Press Citizen, she said she didn't think there was support. I don't know Ernie whether that was true or not, but that's my impression from the questions I was asked. I know we have been told by financial institutions you get a commitment from the Council and come back to us, but if you haven't got a commitment we're not interested. Lehman/Let me ask you this, are you asking for a commitment from the Council for $120,0007 Honohan/I'll be honest I'm asking for a commitment from whatever, whatever you can get from you guys. I'm asking you to authorize the project and we'll try to raise as much money through contributions and through fund raising as we can. And then I saying it's time for you to fish and cut bait and pay the rest. (can't hear). Lehman/Well said. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 62 O'Donnell/Thank you Jay. Lehman/Thank you. You haven't changed your mind Mike. O'Donnell/Ernie why do you look at me, I've supported this from. Lehman/I'm wondering if you're changing your mind. (All talking). Vanderhoef/When he heard fish and cut bait and all that stuff he went off to the. O'Donnell/The fish and cut bait threw me for a minute. Vanderhoef/I know you went fishing. O'Donnell/But I do, I do support this. Wilburn/What I was getting, I support, I just want to know what we're letting them know we expect. Do we expect a certain amount or are we just saying raise what you can and that's all (can't hear)? Champion/I guess I would say to them that I support the project, I appreciate what fund raising you've done, I expect you to continue. Wilbum/OK. Champion/Let me come back when you know how much you've got. O'Donnell/But it will be much easier to conduct a fund-raiser if you know you have support. And that's the problem they are encountering. Wilbum/And all I just said was, I wanted to know. O'Donnell/I know, but it's much easier. Lehman/All right but I think we're very very close to having a decision here, are you supporting the project Ross? Wilburn/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 63 Lehman/Thank you, this is a go. Vanderhoef/This is a go. Atkins/Now what I intend to do is put together the contract to design the skywalk. Lehman/That's correct. Atkins/OK and that I'm assuming that your giving them the message to continue fundraising. Lehman/As much as they can. Atkins/And the capital improvement plan will be amended with some number because this is new debt, we have to refigure the debt, all those sorts of issues, we'll do that, but we won't do that until they've settled in on their final fundraising. Pfab/Let me ask you a question. Atkins/Is that what I understand? Champion/That's it. Pfab/I would say a percentage, I would go along with that, I was just trying to figure out what was raised over at Scanlon, it looks like 1-1. Lehman/No, about 30 percent. Pfab/What was it? Lehman/$400,000 on million 4. Pfab/400,000 OK, 2-1, 2-1. Lehman/3 to 1. Pfab/3-1. Lehman/A little over 3-1. O'Donnell/(can't hear) 6-1. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 64 Kanne~ Steve just for the record, what' s the rough estimate of the design cost? Atkins/About $30,000, usually about 8 percent of the cost of the project. Kanner/So you won't have to come back to us for the? Atkins/No. Lehman/Not for that. Atkins/That's why I want to understand that there's a majority telling me to go do this, I don't want to sign the contract and find out otherwise. O'Donnell/Very good. Lehman/All right. Atkins/All right, thank you. Champion/You know can I just ask, I know three, Dee your for this project? Vanderhoef/Oh always have been. Champion/And Ernie where do you stand? Lehman/I'm not opposed to the project, I just am not convinced that it's timely, but I will contribute money Jay, call me, because I think it's too much public money. O'Donnell/That's a very good point. Vanderhoef/And your getting up there with me. O'Donnell/Connie asked a very good question. Who does support this? Which are there four? Lehman/You, Ross, Dee, Connie. Champion/OK well I didn't hear what you said. Lehman/I don't object to the project I just. Pfab/I don't object to the project. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 65 Champion/I'm just trying to get that on the record sweetie pie. (All talking). Lehman/This is a go folks. Honohan/Thank you. Lehman/The group living location, who is going to address that? As you recall during the. Atkins/Transit Interchange, needs five minutes with you on that. Lehman/Oh. O'Donnell/He skips. Lehman/I, this is getting bad, Joe Fowler. Honohan/The Commission thanks you very much. Champion/We thank you, good job. Transit Interchange Joe Fowler/I will be brief. Lehman/I know you will. Fowler/Kind of give you an update as to what's happening, we're, everything's not going smoothly so I wanted to come in and give you an update. We initially came in with a proposal to build an interchange building in the middle of the street on Washington Street, came in with an original proposal for $250,000, $50,000 which would have been local money, $200,000 would have been federal money. That idea was not very popular, we've been exploring, placing the transit interchange on the sidewalk on the south side of the interchange next to Old Capital, since then we had our initial meetings with Heitmann, they were the owner of the property, they approved the project, we started drawing plans, then all of a sudden everything just ground to a halt and after a period of time they informed us that they were selling the property, wouldn't give us permission to go This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 66 ahead, they said that was up to the new owner. Madison Realty came in from the very beginning, we have expressed to them that we want to build this building on the site. After discussions with them they've decided that their preference is to lease us the land to let us build the building on it and with a 40 year lease with an option for another 40 years. At the end of the second 40 years the building becomes the property of Madison. Lehman/How much is the lease payment? Fowler/One dollar a year. Lehman/Thank you. Fowler/Minimal. Lehman/Reasonable. Fowler/Yes. Kanner/You said two 40-year leases? Fowler/Yea. Lehman/Yea. Fowler/Part of the problems that we've had is we've got into the further development now, we don't have a lease yet, we're still working passing that back and forth between Madison and the city. We need to expand the sidewalk over there to be able to build the building but to be able to get the 2 percent slope so we get drainage away from the building, the sidewalk has to go out and then the street elevation has to be changed so we have to remove the paving on Washington Street and repave Washington Street through the interchange. Lehman/How much of it? Fowler/About everything from Younkers to the comer. Lehman/All the way across the street? Fowler/No just half. Lehman/Oh to the middle. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 67 Fowler/The middle portion. We had originally hoped that we could hook our utilities into the Old Capitol Center, Madison has told us that we can't do that that's added $20,000 to the cost of our project because we're going to have to take our utilities out to the middle of Washington and Clinton basically for a hookup. So to sum up where we are, the estimated cost to do the sidewalk, and street work and to cut the island back so that traffic can get around it, the current island, that flat work is $152,000. We still have an estimated cost of the building of $117,000, those two together come to $269,000. We have some more design fees which haven't been assessed yet so, the price is going to be higher than the $269,000. Of the $250,000, we've already spent $39,000 on design fees, because we've designed it about three times so far. So what we're looking at right now is that we have a $269,000 minimum budget, $211,110 for the project. Right now the federal money that's left for this project is $168,888 and the local match is now up to $100,112. Kanner/What was the total federally put into this? Fowler/$200,000. Kanner/And we were going to pay $50,000? Fowler/Yes. Lehman/So far we have spent $32,000 federal moneys and a little bit of our own? Fowler/Well the $32,000 that we've spent so far, well yea 32 and then our own, yea. Lehman/So what are you asking us? Fowler/I'm just telling you where we are so that you have an idea of what's going with the project so that when we. Lehman/Where are we with them? Fowler/With Madison, I think we're passing documents back and forth still. Dilkes/We had originally prepared a lease, Andy Matthews from my office has been working on it, we had originally prepared a lease and sent it to them, they wanted to use their own form, correct me if I'm wrong on some of this Joe. We got back their form which is a very lengthy document that we've been wading through, we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 68 finally got that, got through that and have sent it back to them and they now have it and we're waiting for another response from them. Lehman/Are we in agreement with them on all the terms? Fowler/No I don't believe we are. Dilkes/No there are a couple outstanding issues. Lehman/Well are those the sort of things we can talk about or not? Pfab/Major or minor. Dilkes/There, one of the issues, it may be things we can resolve, it's just that they take time, one of the issues for instance is they want to impose some insurance requirements that we aren't familiar with and aren't necessarily covered, we've sent that to our insurance agent to review. Joe are there, what are some of the others? Fowler/There's the, they want to charge $2,400 a year for common maintenance area. Or common area maintenance, that's got a 3 percent increase built in for the 40 years, and they are going to be a question of they would like the city to turn over a portion of right of way to Madison that would be adjacent to this building, I think that's about 5 feet. Vanderhoef/Where? Fowler/Along the edge of the building because they would like to own all the property that would be covered when the door opens. Lehman/Oh you mean this would be property that would be inside the building we're building. Fowler/No this would be the, this would be on the noah wall of the building, the exterior of it, they would like property, the property line moved about 5 feet into what's current city fight of way. Lehman/They want to own sidewalk in other words. Fowler/Yes. Lehman/Will they shovel it? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 69 Champion/Yea they should. Fowler/I'm not sure. Lehman/You know we've been messing around with this, and your right Connie, it's over 3 years. Champion/Is there any alternative? Lehman/I believe this should be a very a very profitable addition for that shopping center in that it will bring a lot of people in the door. We have a lot of people who ride our buses, not near as many as we would like but it seems to me it's time for us to either get this project done or forget the project period, we can take that money and go down to Ground Transportation Center and do something, but I think it's time to quit messing with it. Champion/$2,400 a year for maintenance for their interior is absurd. Lehman/Unacceptable. Champion/That's unacceptable and I would rather build something on City property somewhere and have a place for, I don't know how we're going to get some a rest stop for those buses and that travel center for the bus people. I love the idea but I tell you their taking us to the cleaners on this. They may say it's a $1.00 a year but it's a lot more than that. Lehman/That' s $2,401. Champion/There will be more. Lehman/What's your feeling? Champion/Plus a 3 percent increase built in. Fowler/My feeling is that we've really pushed this back a long way, I mean three years ago we had a problem and we tried to address it and were three years down the road and we haven't moved an inch, we haven't improved conditions for the drivers at all. Champion/No and they need, we need to improve the conditions, is there any altemative to improving those conditions? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 70 Fowler/If we wait for the near southside we're back to years again. Lehman/Four years. Champion/Well it might be three years before we get that lease settled. Fowler/We always have the option of trying to redesign something in the street if that's acceptable. I see heads shaking no. Kanner/What about in the parking ramp next to the mall? Fowler/Yes we could, we could do facilities in there, maybe relocate the buses around the comer. Kanner/Oh we'd locate the drop off point. Fowler/Yea the drivers you know now have been told that you know like a time when Shaffer hall is not open which is they usually use throughout the day that they can stop at the parking ramp and the parking ramp office is open and available. Lehman/Joe if you were to make an office in the parking facility I do, I can't see how it would be possible to make a bus stop down there and to still use the entrance to the parking ramp without having some monumental traffic problems. Fowler/There would be traffic congestion, buses use to travel up and down that street. Lehman/I have it. Fowler/Go for it. Lehman/Madison Realty was very excited about us adding angle parking to Clinton Street. Champion/Right. Lehman/And I think the plan is to add 14 spaces to Clinton Street. If we are unable to complete the bus facility where we would like to do it, we could use that side of Clinton Street for the. Now don't laugh, that could be a bus loading zone, we're going to make the street wider, we would not impact the traffic whatsoever on the street, it would be a wonderful place for buses to load and unload and then we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 71 could then put the office right in the first part of the parking ramp, it wouldn't impede traffic going in and out of the ramp. Fowler/That's correct. Lehman/Would you suggest that to them? Fowler/Sure. Vanderhoef/And we could our building on (can't hear). Lehman/And it would cost us a lot less money to do it that way. Can we check that out Steve? O'Donnell/We already committed though to (can't hear). Atkins/I'm sure if this is in the press tomorrow we'll get a phone call. Lehman/All right. (All talking) Kanner/Have you signed a contract or anything yet? Lehman/No. Fowler/No. Kanner/I think that's a very good alternative. Champion/I think it's a very good idea Emie and I say good for you. Kanner/I thought you were going to say in your building and. Lehman/No, that would be a conflict of interest and I'd have to leave the room while you discussed it. Kanner/This is better. Fowler/Do you want me to contact them tomorrow? Lehman/I'm serious, I'm serious. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 72 Kanner/It's got potential. Champion/And that' s not a bad place to put it either. O'Donnell/How much room are you talking about? Lehman/We wouldn't be losing any parking because there is no parking there. O'Donnell/I know Ernie but I'm saying how big of a? Lehman/Whatever it takes, Joe' s the, I mean I would think you've got three loading spaces over there now, take all the loading out put the three buses in, you can park three buses at a time. (All talking) Pfab/Put them in both sides and somebody can park right in front of Emie's place. Lehman/In that case I would lease you the space next to it. I'm tired of messing with this. Champion/Yea it's time to. Atkins/What we wanted to hear from you is that we wanted you to know that this is, this grows more and more difficult, I think we're down to the point where we're going to, yea. Lehman/It's either do it or forget it. Atkins/It's do it or forget it, I think Joe knows that. Lehman/All fight, is that acceptable to you folks? Vanderhoef/Go for it. Champion/Now if worse comes to worse I think the bus drivers need to know that we realize they need a place to go to the bathroom literally. Lehman/To go. Champion/To go, so that when we do our new thing, our new building. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 73 Lehman/I can't wait. Champion/We can also thing of a facility in there and then we're going to have to program into our bus schedule of 5 minute breaks, I mean we're going to have to do something to help this problem, this is a ridiculous problem that hasn't been dealt with, but I'm not going to deal with it at Madison' s reality. Pfab/Maybe we ought to make our exchange over at the new transportation center. Lehman/Well that may end up having to be there. I think you know our feelings. Fowler/I'll convey them. Lehman/Thank you sir. Fowler/Thank you. Group Living Locations (IP2 of 5/11 packet) Atkins/You have a memo from Karin and Eleanor, anything you. Lehman/Well I think we're all aware that this occurred when we were discussing Successful Living and I think the intent and I believe we asked for this is for us to look at the ramifications of group living, concentrations in various area, I think Steven you sent us some information, all of that is still out there but I asked our staff to come back with a report to Council so that we do not find ourselves in the same situation that we were with Successful Living. If we're satisfied with the way our zoning is and whatever that' s fine. If we're not we have an opportunity to make whatever changes are necessary. But whether than waiting until we get an application that is cause for concern for some of us, we have an opportunity to address it before it comes up. Champion/I want to add something to that if I could. Lehman/Please. Champion/I want a little more information, what I'd like us also to look at is because I support this type of housing totally but I'm a strong believer that housing shouldn't be congregated, any style of house should not be congregated in one location and a special service housing especially because whether it affects a neighborhood or not there's a perception that it does. And I don't think it's This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 74 healthy for houses that deal with special populations to be congregated for the people that are living in them. So I'd like to request that we not only look at the impact of this kind of housing in neighborhoods but how do you interspersed it in the community? If there are a possibility of some type of a spot zone you could do to provide mixed, this type of housing in a residential neighborhood that was single family. I mean do we have a single family house that you could house six people in it, or 10, I've had 10 people living in my house, sometimes 16, I do not need special zoning to do that. Lehman/That' s a matter of record now you just said it. O'Donnell/Those were all children. Champion/Right. But my question is, I don't think I'm expressing myself very well. Lehman/Yes you are. Champion/But there must be some way to integrate all this wonderful special needs housing that we have into the city and not congregate it into just older neighborhoods where we have big houses and we zone them to be broken down into apartments or duplexes or whatever, I don't really understand zoning that well. So that' s another part of that question that would be important for me to explore. I don't know if anybody else is interested. Dilkes/That's part of what we would propose to explore, I mean that's all part of it. O'Donnell/It was very well said. Lehman/Would we like to ask? Would we? Dilkes/We just wanted your specific direction to go ahead with that. Lehman/Do we have a direction to move forward with this? O'Donnell/Yes. Vanderhoef/I would like to go forward. Champion/I would too. Kanner/Well could, just fill out a little more what we're going forward with. What direction (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 75 Champion/A way to disperse special needs housing in our community. Vanderhoef/Through zoning. O'Donnell/Well we're not going to cluster it any. Lehman/Well perhaps, impact I think is one thing we need to know. Impact not only on the neighborhood but impact on the housing if it' s, what concentration does or does not do. How it is possible to intersperse that housing throughout the community. And ifthat's a good idea, I mean that's something we have to look at too. Dilkes/Yea it will be approached from both a planning and a legal perspective. I mean the planning perspective will be you know issues of neighborhood compatibility, concentration, those kinds of things that are desirable from a planning perspective, and then we will look at the legal issues to determine what we can legally do. Lehman/And there may be group homes that have need of public transportation, close to a downtown area. I mean there maybe, there' s all kinds of factors, this is not going to be a simple project. Dilkes/No. We're not going to come back to you in two weeks, it's going to be something that's going to take some time. Lehman/But I think it would be an analysis that might be helpful for us. Vanderhoef/It's something that we definitely need to have answers when we have neighborhoods coming to us and saying we perceive there are too many in our neighborhood. And we recognize that we cannot exclude because of that kind of statement, therefore we have to have some legal way that we can address those answers to those folks. Champion/Yea also. Lehman/We may not change anything. Vanderhoef/That may be. Champion/Housing needs that we have. I mean it's a, complication scenario. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 76 Pfab/I believe that would not have been anywhere near the problem if it wasn't for emergency housing, and the emergency housing in a sense is a disgrace to the city, not that they don't do a good job but that thing is so overcrowded and I think the city, the citizen's have got to come up with a way to help those people out. And that is, when I go through that neighborhood, I understand the concern, the most that people have is people, the homeless or the people who live there they wander around through the neighborhood and while they're not bad, their perceived as bad. Or a concern, bad is not a good term. So but your going to emergency housing, they have to turn people away all the time and their just like sardine's in that place. I think it's time that the public realizes that there's a need there and something has to be done. Lehman/Well I think we'll proceed. Pfab/That's fine. Lehman/With the staff effort and come back to us and Steven. Kanner/I just want to say for the record what I passed out and this was after contact with a lawyer from the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law and noting that there had been numerous studies, hundred's perhaps and they don't even do it anymore because it was so overwhelming, the evidence, the group homes for the most part have no negative affect of even up to one group home per block on property values and even if people have negative perceptions those are assumed change after the group home is cited, their follow-up studies have shown this. And so I would hope that we, as we do this study we look at group homes as a positive, a very possible positive in the present time and the future time in the neighborhood. It can be a place that can be a community center and can be a point that could help bring a neighborhood together. And so I would also ask the staff to do some follow-up with the Bazelon Center and to contact those folks because I found them to be very sharp when I talked to them in Washington. Champion/Well. Lehman/OK. Champion/Group homes are different than emergency shelters and domestic violence shelters and I mean there are different. Lehman/All right just a minute there, I think we need it very clear if we're going to ask staff to do a research on this, all fight, how are we defining group homes? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 77 Dilkes/I think we're talking about group living arrangements for targeted populations and there may be differences in what we can do depending on the population we're talking about but I think we're going to be looking at all of those. Lehman/OK. Disposition of South Pointe Lots (IP3 of 5/11 packet) Pfab/That's a sale in progress is that correct? Lehman/No. Vanderhoef/No. Steve Nasby/This is a different project. This was a 1998 home project that we did with Swenson Associates that was a home, it was funded with some home money to construct three houses for home ownership for people, 80 percent median income and last, and because of a lot of delays and getting this project, we terminated our agreement with the developer. And the one house that was built was sold in March and as a consequence of that termination we got two lots back in the South Pointe subdivision and what we're coming back to you is asking what would you like to do with those lots? Now there's really I think two options, I put them in my memo that the city can either sell those on the open market or we can keep them for continuation of the same type of use. And that' s what the Housing and Community Development Commission has recommended and at their, I think it was their October or September meeting they asked staff to contact local organizations that are successful in doing that type of project. So we contacted Habitat, Greater Iowa City, and Iowa City Housing Authority. And consequently we got two proposals which the commission reviewed in November and they made the recommendation at that point to convey the lots to Greater Iowa City for their housing project. I think, oh in January they reiterated their recommendation as a formal recommendation to Council. As far as I know I've talked to both parties, they are still interested in the lots. But I guess what I'm asking from Council is direction on tonight is do you want to keep them for continuation of use and if you do then direct us on what entity you should have for building those houses or if you want to take another option such as selling them or? Pfab/My question is do you sat you have proposals from several people or interest? Nasby/We had two proposals, two formal proposals. Pfab/Is there any reason why we shouldn't accept those? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 78 Nasby/No their both going to provide for the continuation use of the same project. I just did the successor (can't hear). Pfab/I would say don't keep looking, get the houses built, (can't hear). Lehman/We got a memo tonight from South Pointe Neighborhood Association which is frankly not encouraging us to sell these to well I don't want to say the word Iowa City Housing Fellowship, but they are encouraging us not to sell the lots for construction of subsidized or low income housing. And one of these, just one paragraph all told five homes would just, with the student built home brings the number of financially assisted homes to six on a street with approximately 14 homes. Which is, and we were just talking a minute ago about concentrations, this is a rather high concentration of assisted housing in one area. And Council has taken a position over the last five years that we'd like to see assisted housing interspersed throughout the community. Obviously this is continuing the concentration in an area that already has the highest concentration of assisted living of any part of the city. Pfab/Does the letter state that they are very uncomfortable if more assisted? Champion/No. Pfab/Are they saying don't do it, please don't do it? Or we'll take you to court. Lehman/We would like to see the two lots under discussion go to a private builder. That's their statement. Vanderhoef/In other words sell the lots. Lehman/Now the City of Iowa City is also as I'm sure we're all aware have had our dream home project that we've done, I think how many have we done? Vanderhoef/The three are on the west and this one. Lehman/Six, no we've done more than that, or at least tenant to ownership program, totally we've done 7 or 87 ??Man/Seven. Vanderhoef/Seven of those. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 79 Lehman/Seven, we've assisted 7 families in ownership possibilities, the dream home does exactly the same thing, is that not correct? Nasby/The population that the home is sold to is the same, it's persons below 80 percent median income. Lehman/Except they own the home. Champion/Right. Lehman/It is their property. Nasby/They own the home and the real estate. (END OF 00-56 SIDE 2) Vanderhoef/(can't hear) Nasby/(can't hear) Vanderhoef/It will come back in and stay into affordable housing. Champion/So if we sold these lots then that money would go to purchasing new lots to build. Lehman/To build on. Nasby/If we sold the two existing lots the money would go back into the home program which we would then reprogram at that point. Lehman/Then we could then buy another lot or another house or we could as our housing folks would like one of these lots to build another dream home on that they can sell, and that particular property would be owner occupied, they would own that house as opposed to. Atkins/You mean and the land. Lehman/And the land, they would own it, they would be homeowners, landowners, just like everybody else. Vanderhoef/And taxpayers. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 80 Nasby/And Greater Iowa City, they own the property, improvements as well, they are homeowners. Vanderhoef/The difference between the two is one has, one pays taxes, the affordable dream house folks pay taxes because they own the land underneath it and under Greater Iowa City Housing Fellowship at this point they sometimes give us a percent of what might be there. Nasby/I believe the way it works is that the homeowner pays tax, full taxes on the improvement, on the value of improvements. They do it on the land as well, (can't hear) say they pay all the taxes on the property. Lehman/Steven. Kanner/Well we have the President of the Iowa City Housing Fellowship and if he's agreeable I'd like to ask him to respond to these points here and his position on that since his group is the one that's recommended. I'd like to hear what he has to say. Lehman/I don't think that we're going to take it, if we do that we're going to have to get the comments from our housing folks at the same time, they have a stake in this, they'd like to see it purchased and ifthat's the case then we should ask the neighborhood to come in and they're not here either. Kanner/Well that would be fine if we don't make a decision tonight. Lehman/And we don't have to do that. Kanner/I'd like to hold off and have a public hearing of sorts. Champion/(can't hear). Kanner/On the agenda on a Tuesday night so we could hear from these people because we had, it was read into the record this letter which is accusing an organization of doing certain things and they should have an opportunity to (can't hear). (All talking). Champion/They're not accusing anybody. Lehman/They're not accusing anybody. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 81 Vanderhoef/What are you talking about? Kanner/In this letter it says there were things about Greater Iowa City Housing Fellowship that they did some negative things and I think they should have an opportunity to respond but in any case for the whole issue I think we need to have it, have some sort of discussion and have them be able to be part of it along with the Housing Commission to get more input before I'm ready to make a decision. Lehman/Could we ask that the Housing Commission, our Greater Iowa City Housing Fellowship and the. Nasby/Neighborhood association. Lehman/Well the neighborhood association respond in writing, I don't really care to get into a public meeting at a work session with all of those folks but I do think Iowa City Housing Fellowship certainly should have an opportunity to respond to this. The neighborhood, you folks should do it, and I think Doug Boothroy and the Housing folks have an interest in acquiring one of these lots and let each of them make their case and we'll talk about it at the next work session. Nasby/There was an opportunity for public comment when the HCDC meeting in November, the Housing Authority made their pitch, Greater Iowa City made a pitch and we also heard from the neighborhood representatives at that point in time. Kanner/And they said the same thing that they're saying now. Nasby/It's exactly the same thing. Kanner/Is there any point in getting these groups together in more than just a public hearing before Housing Commission where they actually talk to each other, we try to facilitate that in some way. Nasby/I'm looking at Marcia, we did have one neighborhood meeting with them when we were working with the Swenson house with the neighbors and with that party and the city. Kanner/And it's been the same line from all parties involved parties involved basically all the way through? Nasby/They've been fairly consistent in their comments, yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 82 Wilburn/I don't know that we necessarily need to ask the housing fellowship to respond to some correspondence that was sent to Council I mean people are going to, if we did that for every letter, one group accusing another group, I don't know. Lehman/We'd get a lot more mail wouldn't we? (All talking) Nasby/I believe the Greater Iowa City has met with the neighbors at least on one occasion. Wilbum/But a point I wanted to bring out, it seems to me if Council, a Council past, previous made a commitment to home ownership as a basket that you want to put your resources into but home ownership then I think this is something we should keep then to have as an option. Now you raised the point Ernie about density or clustering or putting too much in one area. Lehman/Only, but not in reference in home ownership. Wilburrd Well what I was getting at is I mean if your, if people are not going to be living in large apartment type assisted living settings and your going to encourage home ownership then maybe you need to rethink about what this clustering or density, I mean people got to go somewhere, and ifthere's such a demand for these projects and programs I mean there's got to be a certain number, I mean if their dispersed around the community, I mean we have a significant number of people in the community. I mean we may need to rethink or challenge your assumptions about what a cluster or what too much is in one area so I guess I just encourage you to think about that as we hear from the previous discussion about staff, I mean. Vanderhoef/So are you saying maybe think about selling the lots and looking in? Lehman/No that's not what he's saying. Wilburn/Keep the lots but as we move on into discussion not only about group homes but density and zoning and all this, I mean it's, if you can get a handle or visualize the numbers of people in all the housing programs, I mean at some point there's going to be one either supported living house or one you know tenant to ownership program close to another one. Champion/Oh sure. Wilburn/I mean (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 83 Lehman/Yea but I think there's a significant difference between tenant to ownership and Dream home and subsidized housing. Significant difference, I think home ownership and in my own mind, and I think this is worn out that folks that own their own property, own homes take pride in ownership, it's good for them, it gives them an opportunity, it gives them a step up, I think that's important, one of the complaints that I've heard in the six years on the Council and we've heard it. Folks from that neighborhood have complained bitterly about the city, you have stuck all your affordable housing in one place, we've got problems in this area. I said hey it's the most economical place in Iowa City to build. The land is flat, the lots are cheapest and if your trying to build affordable housing you have to do it where the land cost is less and it has naturally occurred south of Highway 6. How many homes do we own down there that we built in Whispering Meadows? Atkins/30. Lehman/We built, the city owns 30 houses down there, these are subsidized housing. Is that correct? Nasby/They are public housing. Lehman/Public housing, we own 30, the city owns 30 houses down there fight now, I mean we've got some folks down there that say enough is enough, we believe that we need to provide low income housing, we need to make it possible for people to live in assisted housing. Don't put them all in one street. And I believe that's correct, I believe it's in the best interest of the entire community to spread this around. But I also think, I have no problem with taking those two lots and building a home and selling it to the owners and then they become home owners. Wilburn/And that' s fine, my main point that just as we get into this process think about the numbers of people we have and perhaps challenge out you know, what is the border line of a (can't hear), there's no answer, you don't have to answer. Lehman/No, no. Champion/It's arbitrary, your fight. Pfab/I have a question, were any of these houses that were, any of the entities that were involved, did they not intend to have an owner, a person that's living there be an Owner. Nasby/They're all going to be owner occupants. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 84 Pfab/So what's the problem? Lehman/The difference between the ownership of Iowa City Housing Fellowship and a Dream home is that the Dream home owner also owns the land the house sits on. Pfab/But subsidize it in another way, fight? Lehman/You subsidize it in a, is this correct? We assist with the down payment, assist with getting the loan, they then own that property, they own that house, they own the land, they live in it for 15 years, they can sell it, you can buy it, I can buy it, whatever, it is a private home in the housing market. Pfab/So the problem is not how much the house cost or who's, who can eventually get into the house, it's whether the lot is hooked onto the house and ownership. Is that the problem? Lehman/I think that is significant difference. Pfab/I'm just trying to identify the problem. Kanner/I'll tell you what, from this letter what I see as these, this neighborhood association thinking the problem is that there are six financially assisted homes out of 14. Lehman/On one street. Kanner/So the question we have to get at is there a myth that this is detrimental to the neighborhood or is true, is it detrimental to the neighborhood. I would say there's a great deal of myth, we should find out are there problems on this street. Have we had reports of problems coming because people are in financially assisted homes. And Ross just to reply to you, I think it is important, we have the major players making accusations and I think it's important to have other people who are major players be able to answer that in a public forum and I think it would help me in my decision making. If these accusations are true what's being told about Iowa City Housing Fellowship and if there is a problem with six of these financially assisted houses, we should be able to hear those facts from the parties involved. Wilburn/I would invite the Housing Fellowship to send me correspondence just as these people send us correspondence, that's all I need to say. I mean. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 85 Champion/One of their complaints and I'm not going to say that it's true, (can't hear) I like Ross' comments. Wilburn/There's to, we deal with too many groups, too many companies to, if somebody just as somebody sends me a letter about or e-mail about anyone of you I don't invite them to come to you know to Council to have a public meeting to, I mean this is their input, this is the input. Kanner/And for my sake. Wilburn/This will be part of our record and. Kanner/I think it's good for formal input before Council to hear from Iowa City Housing. Champion/Well that' s nice if you have 20 hours a day to do that. Lehman/Well they can respond to us in writing. Wilburn/Yea they can respond to us (can't hear). Lehman/What's your pleasure folks? Champion/Well you know I'd like to see these lots stay in affordable housing but if it's going to create a problem on the street. Now I don't know if there's a real problem, I'm going to have to go down there that we can sell the lots or build houses that can be sold at a reasonable price or get the money and use it for other lots in town. I don't want the money or the lots being lost from this housing program, that's my fear. Lehman/Well it can't be lost because it's federal money. Vanderhoef/The dollars have to go to housing in this time period so I think we're committed to that by Federal law and that's fine and we can do it and whether we think there are too many down there on the street as is suggested here that' s for us to each decide. O'Donnell/I think there's a point where you listen, I believe to the neighborhoods. We had the north side come to us and they wanted to come to us on what they wanted for their neighborhood, when we had the Longfellow come to us and they didn't want RM-12 zoning. And we listened to the neighborhood and I think that's really important I mean what do the neighbors want around you, plus I don't This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 86 believe clustering like this is healthy. I really don't, I'd like to see you know diversity throughout the city this way. Lehman/What' s your pleasure folks, do you want to put it on the next work session? Champion/When do we have to make this decision? I hate to (can't hear). Lehman/I don't know that there's a time flame is there? Champion/I don't know I thought there is a time to build houses and a time not to. Lehman/That's true. Kanner/When do the two groups want to build on it? Vanderhoef/Iowa City Housing Authority is ready to move ahead in this building season. Nasby/Excuse me. Vanderhoef/Late in the season. Nasby/Now, yea, without looking at the applications I can't tell you what was on there Mary Ann and Charlie are indicating they are ready to move forward at the present time as well as Housing Authority folks. Pfab/Question. Lehman/Go. Pfab/What options are there? Lehman/We can follow the recommendation of the Commission which means we sell both lots to the Iowa City Housing Fellowship. We can follow the recommendation of the city staff folks who ask us for one house to be built for a dream home and the other one sold to the Iowa City Housing Fellowship. We can follow the request of some of the neighbors who request that both houses, both lots be put on the market, the proceeds to be used other lots elsewhere. We can sell both houses, or keep both houses, both lots and build houses with the Dream Home program, I mean those are the options. Or we can wait and follow the same options in two weeks. Pfab/Are there commitments to any option at this point? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 87 Champion/No. Vanderhoef/No. Lehman/No commitment because only the Council can make that decision. Vanderhoef/We have to do that. Pfab/Well I would seriously prioritize that the houses be built as soon as possible and I would have no objection that, from what I can gather here, it's mainly the method of having (can't hear) having pull something over on us, what it looks like here. I was just down in that area and I think it's a great area and I don't see any bad houses in there, houses that are a detriment to that area. Champion/I'm sure there aren't. Nasby/Everything that' s been built meets the covenance and (can't hear). Pfab/I mean I think it's an attractive place. Champion/One of the things that they bring out is that there are three homes identical to each other and that may be bothering the neighbors more than anything else. Pfab/They obviously were never in another development. Lehman/No but the point is that you have to don't have to build them all alike and obviously they did. Champion/It's cheaper to do that. Nasby/I think the design is similar but the color scheme and everything is different. Pfab/I noticed their flipped over. Lehman/Well let' s go one at a time. The housing authority, the city has requested one of those lots to build a dream home on, are we amenable to that request? We own the lots, it's the same thing that we did with this dream home that we built and a couple others that we've done. Are we amenable to that? That we as a city build a house on one of those lots and sell it to a qualified. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 88 Kanner/No because the Housing Commission in their report said they went with the Iowa City Housing Fellowship because it would be more of a benefit to low and moderate income people, there would be more of a save, long term savings. Lehman/OK we've got one no vote. Kanner/Yes. Lehman/And we've got one yes for. Kanner/(can't hear). Lehman/That' s correct and that's because they own the land if I'm not mistaken. Vanderhoef/It makes it cheaper. Lehman/How many favor having the city build a dream home? Vanderhoef/I am. Lehman/One, two, I'm three. Pfab/I'm in favor of the other option but you didn't ask me that. Lehman/No, I'm just asking, how many are in favor of our own housing authority building a home on one of those two lots. Wilburn/I'm sorry, this is not the committee's recommendation, this is. Nasby/This is city contrary to (can't hear). Lehman/This would be contrary to the committee recommendation. We've got three people who want the city to do a dream home and we've got four that do not. Pfab/(Can't hear) what the recommendation was. Champion/I need to wait until the next. Pfab/Next year. Champion/No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 89 Pfab/OK. Champion/Until our next work session to make this decision. Lehman/Well that will be on about the 12th of June. That is a long time if you're trying to build a house. Champion/That' s to far. OK I'm sorry Ernie can you go back over the recommendations again. Lehman/All right. We have been asked by our housing folks for one of those lots to build a dream home that would be sold to a low income family. Champion/Right, OK. Lehman/We have been asked by the Commission to sell both lots to the Iowa City Housing Fellowship, we've been asked by some neighbors to sell the two lots on the open market. Champion/OK the three homes that are alike were built by whom? Vanderhoef/Greater Iowa City. Lehman/Greater Iowa City Housing Fellowship. Champion/OK. All right. Lehman/We've got an OK and an all fight. I'm not sure what that means. Vanderhoef/Should we take a break? (All talking) Vanderhoef/We could get you five if you need five. Kanner/This might be a compromise but what if we say one, take one of the lots for the housing fellowship and hold off on the decision on the other lot until June. Champion/I say that's a good compromise but let's give one lot to both but ask the Housing Fellowship to design a house that doesn't look like the other three that are on the block. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 90 Nasby/They're agreeable. Lehman/Your saying to give one to each? Champion/Yes. Lehman/Do we have? Pfab/Well then I have a compromise for that, well just give them both to the people that was just recommended but just tell both of them shouldn't look like the ones that were built. Lehman/That' s isn't what she just said. O'Donnell/It doesn't help our Affordable Dream House Program. Champion/It doesn't help our Affordable Dream House program. OK that's what I've decided. Lehman/All right, we've got. Atkins/What did you decide? Lehman/Let's see for one for Iowa City Housing Fellowship, one for the Iowa City Housing authority which then will sell the home as a Dream Home. O'Donnell/Is that what Connie said? Lehman/That's what she said. (All talking) Lehman/Yes and OK that's what it meant. Does anybody concur in that? One a piece. Vanderhoef/Yes, one a piece. Lehman/One, two, three, four, five. You've got it. Champion/Because it can't wait until June to make this decision. Nasby/Now we will come back to you for conveying the lot to Greater Iowa City through the normal. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 91 Lehman/We are done and we are going to take five. BREAK PIN GRANTS (Item #8. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING DISTRIBUTION OF THE "PROGRAM FOR IMPROVING NEIGHBORHOODS" (PIN) GRANT FUNDS. Atkins/We put on the agenda in case you wanted to ask some questions before tomorrow night, that's why Marcia is still here. Marcia Klingaman/Yes it is both on tonight and tomorrow night. I'm going to be running through the applications just very quickly to see if anything to if there' s any questions you have, comments, things you need, additional information about it, like respond to it at the Council meeting tomorrow night. The neighborhood associations are going to be providing a very brief presentation tomorrow night for you and at that point you will be asked to authorize a resolution based on a recommendation. As I go through them, if you've got comments, questions, let's go ahead and take care of them. I've got two neighborhood representatives here tonight, Jerry Hansen from Wetherby Friends and Neighbors which is the first application, and Dan Bray from the West Side Neighborhood Association. They might be able to respond to questions as well. The first application is computers from kids from Wetherby Friends and Neighbors, the application basically is to provide two complete computer systems for use at the Broadway Street Neighborhood center by those who visit there. The idea is to allow that opportunity for children or young adults in that area that don't have that capability. Champion/Right. Klingaman/OK. The rezoning of a portion of Governor and Lucas Street is from the Longfellow neighborhood, you've already heard that. The, actually this is a reimbursement or would be a reimbursement to the Longfellow Neighborhood Association to fence fund I believe is the term that has already lent this money to these individuals. Lehman/I have a little problem with that. I have a problem with funding anybody's request for a rezoning, nobody else' s rezoning gets refunds for their requests. I mean I would think the neighborhood association could pass the hat and collect that money. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 92 Klingaman/The comments that the neighborhood counsel provided during their review was that by recommending this type of application they were supporting the efforts of the neighborhood association in seeking down zoning for that area. Lehman/Well that same argument can go for any area of the community if they can get enough neighbors that would. I mean I'm not going to make a big deal of it, it just seems to me that is, it's a very very small amount of money so I shouldn't be concemed about it but it seems like kind of an inappropriate use of PIN money. Klingaman/There was some discussion, it is unusual. Vanderhoef/What is it $360? Lehman/It's $400 bucks. Klingaman/$365.00 for the application. Vanderhoef/It was for the application to the city for the down zoning and. Klingaman/Some additional for phone calls, copying, those kind of expenses. Vanderhoef/Yea and those dollars are dollars, the $365.00 at least are dollars for our staff work basically to work through a down zoning proposal. Klingaman/Yes, I guess the flip of the coin is there's always the opportunity for the neighborhoods to work with the City Council to recommend that Planning & Zoning evaluate a request for rezoning. But rather than go through that process they decided to go ahead and initiate it themselves so it would get things moving more swiftly. Lehman/Which I guess my perspective is if they wanted to move more quickly and they chose to choose that route that they probably should fund it, and obviously this Council 100 percent supported their request so it's not that we didn't think it was a good idea. Obviously, I don't know if anybody else shares that opinion or not I just don't think it's appropriate. Pfab/We respectfully disagree but. Lehman/That' s fine, at least it's respectful, I appreciate that. Vanderhoef/I can see where your coming from Emie and sometimes we put whether it be Board of Appeals or Board of Adjustments or whatever, we've put a price on it to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 93 pay for staff time and we also put it there to be sure that there are not frivolous kinds of requests that tie up our staff. And so whether we would be setting a precedence here that someone would do it that was less worthy should we say of a project and might be more in the frivolous category just knowing that it could be a moratorium type thing for a 60 acre (can't hear) I don't know whether that' s a concern or not but it just strikes me as one possibility. Klingaman/Sure. Lehman/Would that recommendation been the same had we chosen not to down zone that? Klingaman/They made this recommendation prior to your decision. So no it was the issue itself that they felt was worth the neighborhood to explore. Lehman/Would the Council go along with that if we had chosen not to down zone? Pfab/I think so, I would have supported it and I'll tell you why. It was a great community effort, a neighborhood effort, win or lose. It did a lot to build a neighborhood. Lehman/Significant effort on the noah side opposing Successful Living, that was a neighborhood effort, yet a significant effort on the people south on the Broadway neighborhood to affect what happens down there. Those are neighborhood efforts. Champion/But it doesn't cost money. Lehman/Well it probably cost money. Wilburn/I guess when I first looked at this that struck me as odd as I'm thinking about it and I'm trying to think back to the intent of the PIN grants because I remember seeing these as a Parks and Rec. Commissioner. I guess when I read it, it struck me odd I thought it seems like a waste to kind of you know. Lehman/Well think about it, we'll talk about it tomorrow night. Klingaman/The applicant' s will be here to present. Pfab/Well was there a (can't hear) process before you approved of it? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 94 Klingaman/The neighborhood council discussed it, I think some of the exact same comments came up. It is unusual, it is first time for this type of request but I think ultimately what was decided was that the process of the endorsed, it was the potential for the neighborhood stabilizing itself and that' s the focus of neighborhood associations as well as the PIN grant program. Lehman/Would they consider the same sort of grant for the folks on First Avenue who would like to prevent the street from going through? Klingaman/I really don't know Ernie. Lehman/That's a neighborhood effort. Klingaman/I understand. Lehman/I'm just saying I think it's a bad precedent. Vanderhoef/I kind of think it is a bad precedent also. O'Donnell/I think your right Emie. Champion/That' s a valid point. Pfab/Again I respectfully disagree with you. Lehman/At least you're still respectful. What's the next item? Think about it guys, we'll vote tomorrow night. Klingaman/OK well I'll suggest that there' s going to be more discussion tomorrow night. Alley gravel resurfacing, this is kind of a continuation of a grant request that Longfellow has made for the last three years worth basically resurfacing alleys within their neighborhood that have a gravel surface. The idea is it's going to make improvements for the entire length of the alley where they can't necessarily get that kind of cooperation from all of the property owners in terms of paying for the gravel. Questions, comments, OK. Sidewalk repair, Longfellow is having their sidewalks inspected this year as part of a 10 year program that the city is initiating to make sure we've got safe sidewalks. The $5,000 that has been recommended will be used to replace sidewalks of primarily low and moderate income homeowners in the neighborhood. Grant Wood initiated a very similar project a few years ago and one had contractor that they solicited and got reduced prices and it worked out pretty slick. Retaining wall for a bus shelter is a Longfellow request as well, they are just requesting $3,500, they'd like to get a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 95 bus shelter at the comer of Burlington and Summit on the noaheast comer. It's not possible to put one in there now with the retaining wall the way it is so this would construct the retaining wall and redo the landscaping behind there so the transit folks can come in and put their bus shelter. Kanner/So this pushes the wall back essentially to give more room. And then who owns that land that it's pushed back? Klingaman/It would be privately owned and the property owner's assured everyone that their willing to accept the maintenance responsibilities of particularly the landscaping, the shelter would continue to be the responsibility of the transit department but. Kanner/Do we have to sign an agreement with them on this? Klingaman/They were working through legal to make sure that we've got this all. Lehman/They'll be in agreement, better have. Klingaman/(Can't hear) was working informally just to make sure we've got what we need. O'Donnell/Is that John's house? Lehman/Across the street. Champion/No it's on the opposite side of the street. Lehman/OK. Klingaman/Planning funds for CERP conservation education a reclamation project, as a West Side Drive application as well as the following one which is the implementation segment of it. The concept here is for the planning funds to be used to develop a plan soliciting experts in terms of conservation and ways to preserve the area where a retention basin and creeks enter that retention basin on the northside of West Side Drive. The planning component would, it's approximate cost would be $4,000, there are some costs associated for some of the improvements for $1,000 within that first grant. Lehman/Who' s responsibility is it to maintain that basin? Klingaman/Legally it's responsibility of the property owners. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000. Council Work Session Page 96 Lehman/Are we using PIN money to fund something that is the legal responsibility of the homeowners to do? Klingaman/Yes, it's probably not the first time the PIN funds have been used for the improvement of private property in some respects but it's probably more (can't hear). Lehman/Is there low income involved here? Klingaman/I think the neighborhood argument is that there are persons on restricted budgets that live within the development. Lehman/Is there low income though? Klingaman/As a majority I would assume not. Lehman/So this is not low income and we are funding something they are required to do anyway. Not like doing sidewalks for low and moderate income people. Pfab/I believe that there' s all, it is privately owned but they have made it accessible which they didn't have to do I understand for public (can't hear). Klingaman/Within the subdivision there were easements established for a walkway that it connects to Kiwanis Park both on the east and the west side of this area so there is public access that goes through the area. Pfab/Which they did not have, which as a homeowner's association they could have, they couldn't protect it. Champion/They had to do it. Pfab/They had to do it because. Champion/I don't know Karin just (can't hear) Lehman/So what are we doing that9 Klingaman/And that was one of the neighborhoods arguments too. (All talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 97 Franklin/It's part of the West Side Drive subdivision and it goes back to when that area was first developed and there was a, the legal papers with that subdivision required walk ways be provided between West Side Drive and across the detention basin to Kiwanis Park. There' s also a storm water management basin maintenance agreement which was made between Park West and S & W, no S & M, Smith and Moreland Construction Company with the developers of this which took over maintenance of the detention basin. I mean this project is the detention basin plus creeks that go into it, but there's a large part of it which is focused on the detention basin and the surrounding grounds. Pfab/So is my statement basically correct or does it need some modification that there is, the public decides the owner' s of that and that homeowners do benefit from the public all does then they do it. Franklin/The public has benefit to the access easements and the walkways that cross it. What part of this project is about is about maintenance of the detention basin itself. Pfab/Because it would still be in right? Franklin/Right. Pfab/So now all those, soon if it, if something doesn't happen there won't be any detention. Lehman/Well my question is what are we going to get with the use of PIN moneys that we would not get through the agreements that are presently in force with the homeowners association? Pfab/What happened if they decide not to. Lehman/They can't decide not to, they're required to do that. Is that correct? Kanner/Not to this extent I don't think. Lehman/That's what I'm trying to find out. Franklin/They are required to maintain the detention basin and the property around the detention basin which is lots 112, 113, 114 and West Side Park subdivision. That maintenance would include insuring that the detention basin continued to function as it was originally constructed. There has been siltation over the years since that was built, there has not been as far as I'm aware of maintenance done on it and so This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 98 their legal responsibility is to insure that that detention basin continues to function and has the capacity that it was designed to have. Lehman/Well would this be fulfilling what would otherwise be their legal responsibility? Franklin/In part. Lehman/Oh that's the, what part wouldn't be, that's the part I'm interested in. Franklin/The part that has to do with any kind of prairie plantings that they were going to put around the edge and the more longer range planting schemes that they were going to consider as well as the part that addresses the upstream stream channel. Lehman/Can we separate those? Franklin/I don't know. Klingaman/They haven't been thus far, I think the whole planning process evaluates all of those areas. Vanderhoef/So tell me exactly the creek maintenance piece that we have started looking at throughout the city. Franklin/OK the creek maintenance and Marcia or Dan correct me if I'm wrong here. Creek maintenance there has already been some work done on the creek which is upstream from the detention basin and I think some downstream from detention basin and they have access creek maintenance funds for that about $10,000 or something like that. And that, that's separate, I mean the creek maintenance funds are something other than the PIN moneys. But the projects are intertwined and this overall planning for a conservation that includes the detention basins as well as the creeks. Pfab/My question is if the PIN money goes there does that relieve the homeowners association Of liabilities that they should have had taken care off Franklin/Does it release them of liabilities? No. Champion/No not at all, it just releases them of doing what they would have to (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 99 Franklin/And, let's, this $5,000 too is not going to be curative of the problems in the detention basin. It's going to take much more than that to dredge the basin and get it to a point where it is fully functioning. Pfab/And so that's still the obligation of the homeowners, the homeowners association? Franklin/Yes it is. Pfab/So this basically, if they dig it out and use it to split it up, they can take it and try to prevent further siltation by basically going to prairie grass and other erosion (can't hear). Franklin/Presumably, presumable, from information I've gotten from the conservation services. Kanner/Ernie, I think the key for me is what you brought up is accessibility or this is a private place and is it accessible to the public at large. And that's the key thing, the other guarantee is that once they put in this wonderful vision that they won't close it off. Lehman/They can't. Champion/They can't. Franklin/They can not. Lehman/They're easements. Champion/They can't. Lehman/That's public. Kanner/Around the pond there's easements? Pfab/(can't hear). Franklin/No there are two walkway easements on either end of the detention basin, there is no easement around the whole pond but there is walkways to ensure that you can get from West Side Drive to Kiwanis Park. That was the concern at the time the subdivision was done that it not be cut off. And we've just put in, the city has put in a bridge at the west end of the detention basin, yea, that ensures that walkway is there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 100 Kanner/One thing Marcia in the form it says does this project benefit low income, elderly, youth or other disadvantaged. And they said yes, and then it's a bit vague in their answer and maybe that's one thing in the future we need to be a little more specific asking the applicants to be a little more specific and say. Klingaman/Exactly how and to whom. Kanner/Yea sort of like Housing and Community Development asks very specific because it looks very good but again anyone can say the things that they were saying here as far as affecting the low income people. Klingaman/Yea, the benefiting of low mod. and elderly and handicapped persons is something that's ranked as part of the whole evaluation process it's not necessary or essential but it certainly increases the score (can't hear). Pfab/By funding this grant you exclude anybody else. Klingaman/No in terms of how these were ranked, the conservation education or reclamation project the second one received the lowest ranking and so therefore it only received $1,900 which was what was left of the fund so no one was excluded that didn't voluntarily withdraw their application. Lehman/Marcia when you make the presentation tomorrow night and I realize this is really short notice but is it possible during the presentation to indicate those portions of this project? Which would have been required by the home owners, or by the, been required to been done by the Home Owners Association and those that are in addition to? Klingaman/Dan Bray would be presenting that and he's saying yes that would be fine. Dan Bray/None of this grant that relieves a homeowners thing legal obligation. Lehman/Dan I understand that but if part of the grant is used to dredge the pond that's, it isn't. I'm sorry, speak into the mic. would you. Bray/None of this grant is designed to relieve any of the homeowners. Lehman/Part of it's used to buy a new mic. Bray/Yea we'll do it, a legal responsibility. What was done in the development is there are probably 300 or so independent home owners condominium owners that share This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 101 responsibility for a lake that's over 1,000 feet long and almost 200 feet wide and they don't have any means to get together either in a vision plan, an understanding, (can't hear) what means, what kind of things the city might tolerate or not tolerate and what this grant does is give this the ability of a neighborhood to start planning for itself of something that the city put in play some time ago without fully planning for it. And it doesn't relieve any responsibility and actually preserves some thing part for Kiwanis Park. I did an informal survey of the people who take this easement, they walk all the way around the detention basin. Lots and lots and lots of folks do, and people believe that the detention basis is owned by the city. And this was just an informal survey stopping people, talking to them, there was hardly a single person believed that it was owned by a private this organized group of 300 people and this is not relieving anything but making it possible for a neighborhood to actually fulfill it's obligations that the city put in play and to be a very good neighbor to Kiwanis Park. Lehman/I understand that Dan but you have if you have a condominium owners association which you obviously do, that association in itself gives you the ability to do what your talking about doing. Bray/No. Lehman/Why not? Bray/Because there are four lots extend over that basin and there are four condominium associations that have no agreement with each other. Lehman/But they all have the same responsibility. Bray/No. Lehman/Oh they don't. Bray/No because our association which is on the west end could say look what we like is we want a marsh, and so we're going to let this thing silt in. Lehman/You can't do that though, you said that. Bray/No we could silt it in to the top level of the water as long as it has the capacity to detain water. Right now there' s water and not silt, and this could turn from a wet basin to a dry basin practically speaking and what you end up with is 6 inches or a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 102 foot or a foot and a half of water that turns stagnant, gathers mosquitoes and it still fulfills it's function as a (can't hear). Lehman/But the home owners would never allow that to happen. Bray/That' s why we're asking for planning grants so people can create a vision of not allowing that to happen and we become a good neighbor to Kiwanis Park. Right now nobody has anything in agreement in common. We've got over you know 300 people with different ideas, we have one of our folks who wants to silt it in and solve the city cemetery problem by allowing burial in the detention basin and my thought and response to that was well let' s let it wash out every once in a while and create a (can't hear) at the east end. But there' s a lot of rather extreme kind of discussion going on like that that' s in good humor but it points out nobody agrees what to do. Lehman/Let me ask in the absence of a PIN grant what's going to happen to your pond relative to the obligations that the home owners association have with the city. Bray/Eutrophication will take place as god ordained it and this thing will silt in and most of the associations would probably allow that to happen gradually over time and the pond would be lost as an amenity adjoining the Kiwanis Park. Lehman/Well we have no regulations that prohibit the silting in. Bray/Correct, well no, it can't silt in beyond it's detention capacity. And what I'm saying is it could silt in up to, it could silt in another 3 V2 feet and it is solid bottom. But it's that process of eutrophication that we must plan for and anticipate as and it's going to be a long term struggle. This is a decade worth of problem. Pfab/Kind of an interesting thing, as it is right now does it help, if it continues on with your vision is as the term used, then does that help us when we try to figure out what to do with our storm water? Because that should retain storm water. Bray/Well this project could actually be very beneficial to the city planning on the storm water issues in the sense that and Karin and I may have disagreement on this. I think the city failed to obtain a proper maintenance when they took this body of water and split it over four condominium associations and I know of only one written agreement that says the developer will maintain it and what it's required to do in perpetuity and what that maintenance means. All of the rest of these detention basins are being built and particularly what it's obligations spread over This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 103 here like four, there's no agreement as to what's going to happen with it. This could serve as a model for the city's use as well. Champion/So your PIN money is actually, tell me what it the money. Bray/Strictly planning a total of $6,900 with some structural stuff, demonstration stuff. Klingaman/$4,000 for planning and then $2,900 for open reclamation. Champion/I think the planning would be important. Klingaman/Well that's why it was ranked higher than the open reclamation by the council. Champion/Planning, I don't have any problems with the planning. Lehman/OK. Klingaman/Any more questions or. OK. And last but not last the Benton Street park improvement application recommended is $5,000 and basically the Noel Miller Orchard neighborhoods requesting some up front funding, they are going through a planning process for the park fight now, I (can't hear) last year. They're also installing a sidewalk or will be to the park but they would like to get something in the park once the planning process is accomplished and the Park and Rec. department won't have funding available until next July so it's just to get something going. Kanner/I have a question on that one, once again as far as affecting low income folks. They made a statement 72 percent, according to the last census, we are 72 percent low moderate income neighborhood, is that true? Klingaman/That's true. Champion/That's true. Klingaman/They are low income. Lehman/Douglas Court, that whole area down across behind Iowa City Landscape from there to Riverside Drive south of Benton Street would be serviced by that park and also north side of that street there' s a lot of low to moderate income. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 104 Klingaman/Half of the acquisition funds for this park were received through CDBG funding because of the low mod. status. Kanner/And moderate is what up to $34,000 for a family of four? Klingaman/I, approximately, 80 percent or less than that. Kanner/Then a final thing is how do we, first of all looks like there's some great projects here. I was really, I had questions about accessibility about the last project we talked about but then I read some of the vision there and what' s happening and I was excited about that. How do we encourage other neighborhoods to do this? Are we going out and talking to them and saying hey there' s this money, the deadline is coming up in three months and? Klingaman/I solicit all the neighborhoods, I actually send out a weekly mailing to all the contacts that I've got and they know very well ahead of time and what the whole schedule is for it. It's been talked about with the neighborhood council. (END OF 00-57 SIDE 1) Klingaman/Funds on how to go about soliciting more interest. So it's an interesting group in that respect that their not out to hold onto the money themselves, they'd like to see some more creative applications and more competition. Yea, there are additional ways and we've talked about it, we never seem to kind of get going on it, we say we're the Neighborhood Council but it's been talked about. Lehman/Irvin. Pfab/Steve, I think this might be a potential demonstration project for you to show what can be done in the neighborhood. Kanner/Oh yea, yea. Pfab/So I mean that may help, that might be another reason why you might want to support this one. Klingarnan/OK thank you I'll be back tomorrow. Lehman/Thank you Marcia. Champion/Looks good. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 105 Solid Waste Management Committee (IP4 of 5/11) Kanner/Ernie before we go on it just hit me that we had said we were going to do appointments earlier in the agenda, didn't we say that? Champion/Oh we did, we forgot about that. Kmmer/And we have it at the bottom so, it's kind of late now but can we just do that? Lehman/Well I don't think Solid Waste is going to take us very long. O'Donnell/No. Champion/No. Lehman/What are we being asked to do? Atkins/There's a memo in your packet suggesting the creation of a solid waste management advisory committee, it's been talked about off and on over the last couple of years. I think the memo is pretty straight forward. What I'd like to do if it's acceptable to you is prepare a policy position where by resolution you can adopt the policy around which we create the committee. That in affect be their charge, we'll put together the administrative details of appointments and things like that. Champion/Go for it. Atkins/I just want to know if this is a good idea or not. O'Donnell/I think it's a real good idea Steve. Champion/Thanks for talking about this. O'Donnell/I like the idea of a, I think it's over due. Atkins/Now you understand the kind of issues we'd like to take to them. Many of which will require coming back to you anyway so it would be an advisory body to you all. Champion/And don't they start to deal with commercial and apartment stuff. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 106 Atkins/Well that' s one of the big issues is that you know we need some sort of assisted attention to cause that to occur. So if it's OK I'll prepare the policy statement and bring it back to you. Kanner/Are we thinking of making another commission? Atkins/Yes it is another commission Steve, that's correct. Vanderhoef/I'm hesitant. O'Donnell/Well why is that? Pfab/She doesn't want the city to (can't hear). Vanderhoef/I'm hesitant on another commission and I can't put my finger on exactly why, ad hoc committees suit me better because we have specific things that we want to look at and we have different expertise's in the community on certain things and I would rather take some of those issues that Steve outlined, tackle them and with an ad hoc committee and then have the committee go away. I sometimes feel that commissions go on and on sometimes without purpose and sometimes we lack the expertise on some of commissions because of the length of commitment to be on a commission versus an ad hoc committee. O'Donnell/You know I understand all that but this is a problem that is compounding daily, and we just, we've been talking about this Solid Waste Management committee for years, I mean I, it's a problem that's not going to go away and it's not going to get any better. I'm just, I think. Vanderhoef/But what can it do more than what an ad hoc committee could do and tackle an issue, resolve it and then create a new ad hoc. O'Donnell/Because I don't think this is the sort of thing that' s easily resolved and I think it's going to take very good people, a great deal of time to even come close to this. Lehman/I tend to agree with you Dee except that I don't think solid waste is ever going to go away and I think that's something we're going to deal with, we're going to deal with as time goes on in a more and more diligent way, you know I have no idea what the long term affects of having solid waste are but I don't think an ad hoc committee is the fight way to handle it. O'Donnell/I don't either. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 107 Vanderhoef/Why I say the ad hoc committee because I see solid waste as being planned regionally and I see our plan that was just sent out to us and that the East Central Council of Govemments just adopted and there are some specific things that we want to do in our municipality and that's fine and that's where the ad hoc committee comes in for me. But the total regional planning and how some of these other things fit together I think we end up with duplication versus a good working plan so for the basics I think it belongs in the regional and for a specific issue I think we need to tackle it at ad hoc. O'Donnell/I (can't hear) disagree with you and I think each one of our surrounding communities ought to jump on board on this and have their own committee meeting and by putting their heads together we could come up with some, at least an idea of this. This is a major problem. Lehman/How will this interface with JCCOG? Atkins/I would suspect that this committee would review the ACOG plan and recommend on our behalf. Lehman/I would hope there would be a rather strong relationship between the two. Atkins/I think the, well there has to be remember that the ACOG plan is a requirement of state law. Lehman/Yea. Atkins/Unless we choose to go in our own direction. Lehman/I can't imagine that we would. Vanderhoef/No, and there are solid waste problems out in the region. Just look at Blue Stem and you have an idea of one of the problems out there but it's about a regional waste stream that we're talking about and yes we know specifically for instance if we address the downtown business district in our community, that' s one thing that fits into that total waste stream but that's an issue I think we can handle with an ad hoc. O'Donnell/I really don't, we've got the downtown businesses, we've got apartments, we've got well, I disagree. Vanderhoef/That's fine. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 108 Lehman/We have some respectful disagreement between two members of the Council, how does the rest of the Council feel about it? The committee. Pfab/Let's go for it. Kanner/I'd like to move forward with the proposal from Steve but would you also give us a budget? Atkins/Sure I'll do all of that, that will. Lehman/I thought it was free. Atkins/What's that? Lehman/I thought it was free. Atkins/Well no, Brad will staff it so Brad will spend a part of his time and if there's any other incidental costs we'll try to identify those but that would be part of the policy. Champion/There's no such thing as free trash. Lehman/All right. I guess we're moving forward. City Council Appointments Planning and Zoning Lehman/City Council appointments, we're going to do that one next. First one is Planning and Zoning Commission. I think there are three or four applications. Do we have any [nominations]?. O'Donnell/I'd like to nominate Jerry Hansen. Champion/I'I1 second that. Lehman/We have two for Jerry, are have other? Vanderhoef/That's fine. Lehman/All right we've got. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 109 Kanner/Well. Lehman/I'm sorry go ahead. Kanner/Well there are three really strong candidates that I wanted to put forward and discuss it a little bit. Charles is someone that I think has a really vast knowledge of these issues and he's been involved in the city and gives a lot and I think it's a real asset to consider him. And then my, the other choice for me is between Ann and Jerry, I know Ann's been on for a couple terms but so that's what I have to discuss, I think Jerry bring especially in the south side in his involvement is good in there also but do we want to lose that from Ann, that history. You know I talked to someone else on the commission and they said she knows things that staff doesn't know often times. Lehman/I don't think I would have said that if I were you. (All talking) Vanderhoef/She has a great memory for (can't hear). Lehman/You blew that one. Vanderhoef/A great memory for issues. Kanner/The other thing to consider is we're also going to have another opening in July it looks like from one of the members resigning so we can think about that. Champion/They're all good candidates. O'Donnell/Well I heard four for Jerry, one, two, five for Jerry. Lehman/I share your concern with, I think Ann Bovbjerg has been there for this will be her third term if I'm not mistaken. O'Donnell/I'd like to nominate Ann Bovbjerg for the second term. Lehman/Well but I think it's important that there be some continuity on that commission and that Ann would certainly offer stability that no one else can offer, not that there aren't other good people but I think she can afford some leadership that would be very important for that commission. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 110 Vanderhoef/Well right now leadership is tremendously important in my eyes because we're just heading into this review of all of our zoning issues and I think she can offer perspectives with examples probably. What has preceded and she is has just recently took the chair, to be chair of the commission at least and I think it's important that she stay on there so I definitely would like Ann to be on there. And there's another good candidate. Lehman/Norm Osland is good. Vanderhoef/Norm Osland. O'Donnell/Very good. Vanderhoef/Is a very good candidate also. So I guess what my choice is at this point in time will be Ann and Jerry and I will look strongly at Norm Osland myself for the next appointment. Wilburn/I'll be looking at Jerry and Charles is what I was looking at so. Champion/Charles would be really good but I'm not going to support him (can't hear). Lehman/Well let's just, let's, Ann Bovbjerg, are there four people who support Ann Bovbjerg? Vanderhoef/Yes. Pfab/I wouldn't have any problem with. Lehman/All fight so Ann is one, Charlie Eastham?? How many would support Charlie? How many for Norm Osland? Jerry Hansen? OK Ann Bovbjerg and Jerry Hansen will be the folks that we will appoint to the Planning & Zoning Commission. Animal Control Lehman/Animal Control, we didn't have any applications, or did we? Kanner/Yea we have (can't hear). Lehman/Yea we do. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 111 Vanderhoef/Tammara Meester. Lehman/How do you spell her last name? Vanderhoef/Meester. Lehman/Is that acceptable? Kanner/Yea I talked to her, she seems really enthused about working with them, with the animal advisory and working at the animal (can't hear) and other issues and I think she would be good. Vanderhoef/I'm sorry to see Shawn Walker go. Lehman/We are in agreement for Tammara Meester. Vanderhoef/Yes. Lehman/OK. Lehman/Those are the two regular appointments. Deer Management Lehman/The one is going to be the Deer Management Committee and as long as we're doing it let's do the Deer Management Committee. O'Donnell/I'd like to, I have gone through this, there's quite a list here, I'd like to nominate Doug Hansen. Lehman/Whom? O'Donnell/Doug Hansen. Kanner/Which position? O'Donnell/He's the hunter, he's the (can't hear). Lehman/He's from Lone Tree. Vanderhoef/Can't, can't do. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 112 Pfab/I'm trying to think, Emerson, I'd like to have, propose Emerson. O'Donnell/Doug Hansen is from Lone Tree, I didn't read that. Lehman/Yea. Lehman/I don't know that they have to be from Iowa City, obviously we have one from Coralville but I would think at least within a deer run for something. Kanner/Well I think we implication of items it was that they're all three from Iowa City except for this one Coralville person. (Can't hear). Kanner/Which will probably go off in a year so I would say they have to be from Iowa City, the other positions besides the Coralville one. Champion/I think we have to be careful that we get people on this committee that are open minded and not narrow minded about what needs to be done. I mean that's a real concern of mine, we can't have (can't hear) either way, we can't have people who hate deer and people who want nothing done to correct the deer problem. You've got to have people with moderation who are going to listen. Wilburn/I kind of liked Nancy Menning, she seemed to have a. Champion/So did I. Lehman/All fight. Wilburn/I think from a research perspective maybe and just from looking at her background. O'Donnell/I heard that one too. Lehman/I heard several, how many would like Nancy Menning? Vanderhoef/I would. Lehman/All fight we have one appointment. Vanderhoef/I'd also like to look at Harold Goff. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 113 Karr/What's, I'm sorry, Ernie what's the, Nancy what was her spot? Vanderhoef/At large. O'Donnell/Harold Goff, he's at large. Lehman/Well just, let's go one at a time here, we've got Nancy. Vanderhoef/And Harold Goff would be an at large person. O'Donnell/I second that. Lehman/Well who else do we have at large? We have Nancy at large, Harold Goffhas been proposed at large. Pfab/Florence Boos. Lehman/Boos that would be at large. Kanner/Yea I'd like to propose Florence, I think, obviously we've heard her speak for the last few months, she' s well informed and I think everyone has a position and I think she's open minded enough to consider other things but she, I think we need that kind of. Lehman/Open-mindedness. Kanner/What? Lehman/You think we need that kind of open-mindedness that she' s displayed at the Council meetings? Kanner/I think so. Lehman/OK. Kanner/I think we have other people with certain positions and we're having people with certain open-rnindedness in another way in hunting and so forth and I think it would be a good thing to put that on and someone who' s very knowledgeable about the issues just looking at the wide variety of possibilities. O'Donnell/Well Harold Goff has been mentioned and seconded, are there four people who? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 114 Lehman/Well let's go through the other potential people at large. We have Nancy Menning which we have all agreed, or we have majority a way to appoint. Harold Goff has been suggested, Florence Boos has been suggested, we need three people at large is that correct? Vanderhoef/No two. Lehman/Two. Is there anybody else that we would consider at large? Kanner/And we, well we also have a master gardener position which we didn't have anybody apply for so we have to decide if we're going to (can't hear). Lehman/We got one that came in tonight that I would really, well let's wait, let's do the at large first. We need two at large and we've gotten Menning, Goff, Menning appointed, Goff and Boos as suggested. Is there a third one from this group that we would be interested in at large? Kanner/Well I think Leslie Ball has a lot of good qualifications, she' s a gardener herself, she's an instructor at Kirkwood. O'Donnell/Irvin mentioned Paul Emerson. Lehman/He's a hunter. O'Donnell/OK. Lehman/And he would, that would be a different category. O'Donnell/I wrote these things down wrong. Vanderhoef/We've got two or three people that could fit in the hunter category. Lehman/Well at large. Vanderhoef/A couple people said at large or hunter. So do you want to? Actually do you want to choose the hunter because there were a couple people that said they would go either hunter or at large. Lehman/Except that I think if a person could be considered a hunter that we should consider them a hunter and not take a person who wants to be considered one or another and potentially appoint two hunters I don't think we want to do that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 115 Vanderhoef/That' fine. Lehman/So we have Goof, Boos and Hall at large, is there anybody else that somebody would like to suggest? O'Donnell/I suggest Harold Goff. Pfab/Now what was it? Lehman/Well Goff, Boos and Hall. Leslie Hall are the three folks we are discussing at large. Pfab/I thought we were talking a Nancy Menning or something. Lehman/We already voted on her. Pfab/Oh OK. Lehman/We need to select one more at large. So heating no other suggestions, Leslie Hall, how many would favor her at large? Florence Boos. Pfab/I would. Lehman/There's two. Harold Goff. Champion/I'll support Harold. Lehman/All right Harold Goffwill be the second at large. Champion/Now Irvin who did you have for the hunter? Pfab/Emerson, I want to say Dale but that's not the right word. Lehman/Paul Emerson and there' s a guy named Erickson I think who in there was also a hunter. Vanderhoef/Who has a lot of environmental education behind him also. Lehman/Emerson. Champion/Yea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 116 Vanderhoef/Emerson. Lehman/Right. Vanderhoef/OK. Kanner/Emerson looks good to me. Lehman/Emerson, how many? Vanderhoef/Is (can't hear) who works at Fin & Feather? Lehman/I don't know. Do we have four for Emerson before we go any further? All fight we have Emerson as a hunter. Champion/Who can be the hunted? Lehman/We don't have a master gardener but we've got an application today that I personally strongly recommend. Linda Dykstra is the, I don't know if she' s the owner or she just runs the place. Champion/Owner. Lehman/Or whatever at Iowa City Landscape and I talked to her this afternoon and I don't know anybody who knows anymore about what deer like to eat and don't like to eat and I don't know that Linda can be classified as a master gardener but being in that business but I think she probably has more understanding of what deer like and don't like to eat and how they damage plant matedais in about anybody I know. Now she lives in the fringe area, she does not live in the city. I, that's the only application we have but I think she's very strong. Champion/(Can't hear). Vanderhoef/I'm OK with that, we have done this in other commissions to do people who have certain expertise. And this is a fringe area and actually is in our growth area. Lehman/There is deer in there. Champion/There is deer. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 117 Vanderhoef/And with her talk about getting public input, this woman gets public input all the time in her business from folks who are dealing with deer. Pfab/Is this one we could put off until tomorrow? I just saw this, I mean it just, I would like to (can't hear). Lehman/I don't have a problem with that. Pfab/Because I mean, no, she just appeared here tonight fight? Lehman/Right. Kanner/Well I think Emie if she were a master gardener you might have more of a case we reached an agreement where we were going to go with Iowa City people and I think that's important and especially since she doesn't appear to be a master gardener. I think there are other people that are gardeners and have expertise, I think this Leslie Hall has some expertise. Lehman/She's not a master gardener is she? Kanner/No but I'm saying she's an Iowa City, so I would be opposed to appointing someone who' s not in Iowa City especially compounded by the fact that she' s not a master gardener. Dilkes/Can I, I think the minutes from last time will reflect that you decided that you needed Iowa City residents, I think you can decide contrary to that but I think you should then, it should be clear and other people can apply but once you make a rule, I think you need to follow it. And so if you want to change that then you probably should just do a short advertisement again for anybody who 's a master gardener. Lehman/Right. O'Donnell/I would be in favor of doing a short advertisement. Lehman/All right may I suggest that we appoint these three, we wait for the fourth one, readvertise and make that appointment the first meeting in June. Vanderhoef/And readvertise for Master Gardener. Lehman/Now. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 118 Wilburn/I'm just thinking back to, you had, needed the African American gentleman who lived, didn't he live in the fringe and you didn't accept because, is that correct? Lehman/We did and then we found outside, although I think that in the PCRB there is the provision that we can take someone from out of the city for some position of expertise and I can't remember what it is. Vanderhoef/It's for previous police. Dilkes/The police officer. Lehman/Yea, he can't be a police officer though. Pfab/If we're going to advertise I would propose that we put this off for, is there a mad rush for? Karr/We usually. Pfab/Hold off until our next meeting. Lehman/I don't have any problem with doing the three that we agreed on. O'Donnell/We've already appointed three. Vanderhoef/Yea. O'Donnell/And I'm fine with that. Lehman/But do we want to readvertise? Then the other question is do we want to restrict all of our positions to people who live in Iowa City? Pfab/I believe so. Champion/I think so. (All talking, I believe so). Lehman/OK. Pfab/That' s been decided I think. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 119 Karr/So we'll readvertise the master gardener for Iowa City residents. Lehman/OK. Karr/Correct? Kanner/Appoint at our next meeting or work session. Karr/The 12th. Champion/Do we want to change that terminology to somebody who is an active gardener? You know I don't know what a master gardener is. Lehman/Why don't we get a little bit of a clarification from Lisa tomorrow, I'm not sure what a master gardener, I don't know what that. Dilkes/I think, Steve correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that one of the committee's specific recommendation that you go to a specifically to a master gardener? Atkins/Yes it was. Jim Walters/We only have 15 or 20 in Iowa City. Lehman/OK. O'Donnell/I've heard (can't hear) is a master gardener. Lehman/Well we may have a problem, and if we have a problem then we have. Vanderhoef/(can't hear). Lehman/We may have to change the criteria if we have a problem but at this point in time we are looking for a master gardener and the person must live in Iowa City and we will readvertise and make that appointment at the next meeting. O'Donnell/Well if Jim said there' s only 17 in the area. Walters/They're very limited number. Dilkes/Yea I'm not saying you can't change that I just wanted to remind you that was the committee' s recommendation. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 120 Champion/Maybe we could put all the (can't hear). Lehman/Connie we can't hear you. Pfab/I was going to say is there any reason why if we're going to advertise and we wouldn't be better off just put the whole thing up. Lehman/Because we just appointed three. Champion/No, no, we've got to appoint the ones we appointed. Lehman/And we had agreement on those three. Champion/Maybe we could ask Lisa tomorrow if we use the term active gardener because ifthere's only 15 in town. O'Donnell/Or knowledge anything, master gardener goodness. Lehnan/All right. (can't hear). Lehman/All right Connie's a master gardener, all fight we'll readvertise for the master gardener. Liquor Licenses Lehman/Liquor licenses meeting with the, this is the meeting that we have proposed to meet with the bar owners, we had hoped to have that meeting this month, this month is creeping away and I don't know. Atkins/I need to know from you all what you want to accomplish at the meeting. We discussed it after you originally proposed the idea. Is this a public hearing? Is this strictly the bar owners? Who do we invite? What's the format? What do you hope to accomplish? O'Donnell/All very good touched. Atkins/And honestly it's just difficult to schedule a meeting particularly invite people, they need to know that, in all fairness they need to understand what your ground rules are going to be. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 121 Lehman/My, I think everyone should give us their own thoughts. My perspective is we have been, all of us have received a number of letters, e-mail's, comments from large numbers of people who have encouraged us to lower the age of access to bars, being very concerned with binge drinking. We have the Stepping Up people, the University of Iowa, the Johnson County Health Board and numerous local citizens and parents of University of Iowa Students who have asked us to address the difficulties associated with over indulgence in Iowa City. I personally feel that I would much rather have folks behave on their own rather than make rules. I would like to tell the bar owners we have received these complaints, we have a problem. The problems occur in your bars, you have told us consistently that underage people belong in our bars where we can exercise control over them. Yet at 2:00 in the morning these folks over which you have exercised your control come out stumbling drunk, obviously you have not exercised your control, you have the inability to exercise control over those folks. This is a problem that will receive attention, either it will receive your attention or there are several things we can do and I think we should enumerate those things. One of them I believe it is possible to at least to research the possibility of prohibiting all you can drink specials and I know we did have a memo some time back on the possibility or not possibility of not limiting liquor licenses by zone. We also have the ability under Iowa law to restrict the folks in bars to 21 years of age or older. There are a couple of possibilities, I'm not familiar with but Eleanor is that we can do under present law to do a little more enforcement than we're doing. I would like to tell the bar owners basically these are our options which I believe we will take advantage of some or all unless your able to address the problem. I think they should have the opportunity. Wilburrd I don't think that answers Steve' s questions, what do you want to hear from them? Do you want to hear? Lehman/How do you answer what I just said? Pfab/(can't hear). Wilburn/I guess a suggestion might be what are some steps you are going to take from your point of views so that we don't have to do this. Perhaps a place you came to a work session with a list of some things that a group of bar owners were talking about doing. So my, a recommendation would be a more tangible, what are you going to do? Lehman/This is the problem. Wilburn/Otherwise why not send a letter saying. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 122 Lehman/What do you suggest that? What do you think you can do? What are your? What will you do to address this problem? O'Donnell/It's what are you going to do? Lehman/Yea. Pfab/And when. Champion/My question would be. Wilburn/Because just to have a meeting that saying. Vanderhoef/The length of time. Wilbum/I mean you may say the things that you just outlined but I mean if I got a letter saying come to a meeting where your going to tell me this then I don't know what to, why would I come to a meeting, I already know what your going to say. Champion/The question I would ask. Lehman/Well. Wilburn/The meeting applies sometimes with dialogue or (can't hear). Champion/What are you going to do to keep me from raising the age to 21 to get into a bar in Iowa City? Pfab/On July 2nd. Lehman/Steve would it be possible to send our, we haven't sent letters but I'm sure that's what we're going to do. To send a letter to the bar owners indicating basically what we've just said and say how to you expect to respond to this? This is a meeting where you will be expected to give us your responses. Vanderhoef/And I would like to add onto this from just bar owners because I've sat at the previous meeting with the bar owners where they outlined all the things that happened with kegs and the carry out and so I think all the liquor license people. Atkins/All license holders should be invited. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 123 Vanderhoef/I thinks so. Pfab/(can't hear). Vanderhoef/Absolutely, I mean unless you get those people talking together and coming up with a. Atkins/OK. Lehman/The only problem I have with that, the discussions we've had with everybody who's approached us so far have had nothing to do with keggars, or Quik Trips, or packaged sales. Champion/They already have to be 21 to buy beer. Lehman/It's been strictly bars. O'Donnell/And Ernie we're not talking about you know, you don't have to be 21 to go into a Quik Trip, I mean this is a specific thing, it's 21 going into a bar downtown is what we're talking about. Lehman/And I think we should limit that to bars. Vanderhoef/That's true. O'Donnell/And I want, it's bar owners and I think we ask very specific questions, what are you going to do? How can you help us? And then the next step to this is talking to people area wide. Champion/Because I will tell you after being downtown two Saturday nights in a row, a year ago I would have never thought of raising the age to 21. I'm seriously thinking about it now unless they can absolutely tell me how they're going to keep me from wanting to do that. Vanderhoef/No I don't need them to tell me, I need them to demonstrate it. Champion/Well that's yea. Vanderhoef/And rapidly. Champion/Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 124 Wilburn/So at the meeting you need them to tell you how they're going to demonstrate it because other wise why would some come to a meeting unless if their going to (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Tell me how your going to do it and then show it to me. Champion/Right. Lehman/Do we want to send them a letter indicating you know that the communications that we've had? Explain to them the options that are available to us and ask them, this is a meeting where you will be able to present what you would propose to correct the difficulties that these people are addressing. Champion/Still the other problem is Ernie too, the other question, the article the paper on, I can't forget the date. But for some bar owners to say kids are better off, minors are better off drinking in his bar, that's not his exact quote. Lehman/That's pretty close. Champion/Than at home, I thought now there just saying it's fine that these minors be in my bar drinking. I mean something wrong with this whole picture. Vanderhoef/Right. Pfab/That's his bank account. Champion/Well I don't think they make much money off the alcohol, they make money on cover charges. O'Donnell/You know but, I don't think it's this Council's intention to stop the kids from going out at 10:00 at night, after studying and have a hamburger, or dance, or play pool or something and you know it's very close to happening because this is going to happen if we limit it to 21 only then these kids are not going to have any option, they are not going to have anything to do. Champion/They will, they will have something to do. Kanner/Ernie, I agree with what Dee was saying, I think we have to widen our scope of who we invite to this because I think it is the other half of the equation is like Conhie was saying the argument is their going to go out and get kegs and get beer from these other licensees. So I think we need their input to see how it can be part of the, how we can do the whole thing together. So I would say we need to invite. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 125 Champion/We would need to hold it at Carver Hawkeye Arena for 5 hours. Kanner/Well we have about 150. My next point is how, even if we don't invite the other licensees we still have quite a number and we have to find out how we're going to facilitate this discussion because we're really not going to have discussion if it's just a big group of licensees that have maybe 30 seconds to come and present something to us. I think we have to have a collaboration that's a little more in depth, no matter which route we go as far as licenses. Champion/But you've got to start one place, you can't start with them all. Lehman/No but now Steve's right, I mean and Steve Atkins said the same thing, I mean we have this big party. We have to have some sort of a format, some itinerary, some. O'Donnell/What are we talking about doing Ernie? Champion/We don't know. Lehman/I don't think we know, I think we're here to find out what they'd like to do. O'Donnell/But what is this Council's option? We're going to limit admittance into a bar to 21. Lehman/That' s one of the options we have. O'Donnell/What have we been talking about for two months? I mean that's. Lehman/Well but I think drink specials are another thing and Eleanor' s got an idea, or some sort of an ordinance that's possible for us to. Dilkes/Well it's just, I think what Ernie is referring to is the state law which allows us to take enforcement action against their licenses, suspension revocation etc. when we're able to prove that they sold to underage drinkers having reason to know that they were underage. Now that' s going to involve a substantial effort because we can't just go in and say you know you had 20 people arrested for underage possession, that's not good enough. But you know so. Lehman/You've got to catch them selling it. Atkins/Folks your debating the merits of the issue. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 126 Kanner/Right, one thing I might suggest is that we have lay out what we're looking for at this meeting of how many people and then break up into small groups with each of the Council people at one of the groups. And then we get ideas and then come back together as a group and each of the tables presents their ideas what they thought of and this way at least more people have a chance to have input. O'Donnell/Oh I don't want to sit. Vanderhoef/That may well be what the bar owners need to do, and then they come to us with their proposal. Kanner/Well I'd like to be part of it, I want to be there with the bar owners, there some we've heard that have said great, let' s ban people under 21 and we've heard others say don't do it, I want to be at that table with some of those opposing view points and I want to hash out a little in a smaller group setting where I have a chance to really throw back some ideas and give and take and in my mind that's just one way that we can do it. There might be other ways to do it but it's hard to do it when you have 100 or plus more people. Vanderhoef/It seems to me that they need to come back with a policies that they will enforce within their own establishment that will assure us that underage drinking is not going to take place. Lehman/Well it's more than underage, it's over indulgence. Vanderhoef/Over indulgence is the second one. Pfab/Just a little touch of lightness here, I think we ought to send a letter to all the licensees and say we don't know what we're going to do. Atkins/Folks we're still debating the various things you want to do and we're not any close on how you want to conduct this meeting. Steven has made a suggestion, we did that sort of set up with the students, remember two or three, well about 3-4 years ago at the IMU. Now I mean, I don't know who you want to invite, what you want to accomplish. Again I mean this respectfully, we're sitting around saying all the things we're going to do. Pfab/Is this something that could maybe be taken up at our next work session? Lehman/No this is something we've got to get started so we. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 127 O'Donnell/Why don't we have the bar owners send us a representative group I mean, there's, I mean what is 52 bars downtown. Atkins/You know Mike under most circumstances I'd say that's fine but I'll be quite candid those bar owners will cut each other's throats in a minute. I don't mean that to be quotable quotes but I mean I've seen their behavior. Wilburn/Well you see it in correspondence (can't hear). Atkins/Absolutely. Lehman/It seems to me the thing that we're, that we receive the most complaints about and the issue that we probably need to address the most is the biggest issue is over indulgence. People becoming inebriated binge drinking. The second issue is related because many many of those who over indulge are under 21. What we really are opposing are people coming out of bars at 1 and 2 in the morning stumbling drunk, out of the controlled environment that they have been in. Champion/Right, wonderful sheltered. Lehman/Sheltered and controlled. Atkins/So how do you want? How do you want to find out how to address that issue? Champion/I want somebody else to do it. (can't hear) Lehman/Eleanor' s about to say something. Dilkes/Well I was just thinking, you could write a letter expressing your intention to legislate so that people could not come into bars unless they were 21 years old unless a satisfactory alternative was offered by the bar owners. Lehman/So we said thank you, exactly what we said. (All talking) Pfab/I've been saying this all evening. Atkins/Then there is no meeting, what your doing is that your, you will require them to get together in some way to propose something to you. What you've just said. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 128 Vanderhoef/Yes. Atkins/Is that you are prepared to legislate? Pfab/OK and I think we should put a date on it that by (can't hear). Atkins/We'll do all that. Dilkes/I mean assuming you are prepared to legislate but I think you have to give them a target and say you know this is what, you need to give us an alternative or this is the only one available to us. Champion/Yea, that's a good. Lehman/I think that's probably fight, that is the only alternative that we are aware of. What alternatives can you provide? Pfab/Are we set the date? Dilkes/There' s some measure of that because we know how many PAULA's underage drinking we traditionally have had and so there can be some measure of that it seems to me whether there's a reduction or not. Champion/Yea your right of course but summers are, we would have summer's statistics of course so. Vanderhoef/Certainly. Lehman/Well would it be appropriate then to write and tell them we are prepared to consider ordinances that would re? Pfab/No. Vanderhoef/No. Pfab/We're going to do it if we're going to do it. Lehman/Well you won't do it until you consider it. Kanner/Are there four of you that are going to vote to ban people under 21 ? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 129 Pfab/I'll vote if it doesn't change. Lehman/Oh I think I will if it doesn't change. Vanderhoef/Sure. Pfab/And not maybe sometime, pretty soon now. Vanderhoef/Well this is, this is what. Pfab/A date certain and the statistics better prove it. O'Donnell/You know we're backed into a comer, we had an article in the paper about the vandalism downtown. Champion/Oh terrible. O'Donnell/When this is happening, it's costing money. Champion/It costs money all the time. It's cost me at least $4,000 my front window has been broken four times. O'Donnell/And we also, it's a state law, it's against the law to drink until your 21 years old. And I don't care if you, if you come out over indulged Emie it's still against the law to come out, it's against the law to drink two beers. Lehman/All fight, shall we prepare letters similar to what Eleanor is saying that we prepared to? Vanderhoef/Absolutely. Lehman/But I think we've got to use the words the work prepared to consider, you can't pass on it until you consider it. Wilburn/Does that mean a meeting or they just respond to? Lehman/Well I think that both would happen. Champion/We need to hear what they're going to, I want to hear. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 130 Vanderhoef/I think two things, we need to hear what they are proposing and then we need a time frame that says this is when, in this time frame this is what their going to do. Lehman/And you have to have a method to measure their effectiveness. Dilkes/Well and I'm not suggesting that you would just say to you know, tell us what you, I mean the meeting still facilitates having a discussion between you and them so I don't know. Vanderhoef/Well when they present their proposal of what their policies are going to be we'll sit and we can have discussion with them about those proposals but then it's time to set a time limit and a standard that they must have changed. Pfab/Why can't we set a time now when we're going to do something? Kanner/We did, actually we did set a time, at our last meeting we said we were going to wait until the fall so we make decisions so we have the input of students and now we seem to be getting away from that. And it seemed to me at the last time there was a majority that wanted to do a whole community kind of gathering. Atkins/That' s right. Kanner/But it was decided to just do the bar owners. Lehman/Start there, your still going to have the community. Kanner/Start there, so I say let's stick with that and let's give Steve an agenda for the meeting and let's go with that and go with our time frame that we agreed on last time. Pfab/What is the time frame? Kanner/It was September, October. Pfab/Well just pick a day, I don't care what, I don't care if it's in 2002, just pick a day. O 'Donnell/October 1 st. Pfab/October 1 st, good 2000. Kanner/October 1 st we're going to make a decision. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 131 Pfab/Bring out the paddy wagon, we circle the downtown with paddy wagons. Kanner/And we're going to have student involvement and other citizen involvement after we have the bar owners and well my preference is all the licensees but at least the bar owners. Lehman/Well because, I don't disagree with you except I think almost all the complaints that we've had are relative to bars and primarily those in the downtown and I think that' s where we need to start. Obviously it's going to affect other bar owners which are gong to then receive some of our attention. Kanner/But Ernie they're saying, some of the bar owners are saying, you want to put drink specials on us what about the cheap beer you can get over at the convenience store. Pfab/Sure. Lehman/Can't do anything about that. Pfab/But they're not staggering out of these Quik Trips or whatever that' s just a, that doesn't mean Quik Trip is the only one. But they are staggering out of the bars. Champion/And we have 21 pitchers of beer for $21.00 when your 21. You don't take that beer home and put it in your refrigerator, you drink it. Lehman/And lose it on the way home. Pfab/And then I understand that if you go through the MECCA thing and you get a certificate you can bring it in and they'll give you all you can drink. That was told to me by a person that has every (can't hear). Lehman/Steve we will prepare some sort of letter that will go to the bar owners along with the help of Eleanor who knows exactly what we're going to say. O'Donnell/This isn't, this isn't really Ernie I don't think. Dilkes/No you have to tell Steve what you want. Atkins/I can draft a letter that sounds just like what you just said. Lehman/I think Eleanor said it that we are prepared to. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 132 Pfab/On October 1, 2000. Lehman/Well I don't like this date business, we haven't gone far enough in talking to anybody where I'm willing to put a date on. The only thing I am willing to say and I think is we said it last time that we are not willing to proceed with this until the students have an opportunity to have input with and the earliest time will be after the fall semester starts in September. Even if we have an ordinance all ready to go we can't have a public hearing before that and then it's going to take three readings and whatever and so I mean this is. O'Donnell/So we're going to have all the underage students speak on this? Lehman/Hey they have every right to speak. O'Donnell/Oh I know Ernie but I wonder what they'll say. Lehman/They'll say we're thirsty. Champion/You'll get both. Lehman/I don't think you'll probably see a whole lot of them. Pfab/It will be busy down at the bars. Lehman/So what are we, what do you want us to say in the letter because it's getting time to (can't hear)? Champion/You can (can't hear). O'Donnell/How did, you know we are considering raising the legal limit to enter a bar in downtown Iowa City. Lehman/In response to the complaints that we've received from the University of Iowa, the Stepping Up project, the Johnson County Health Association, blah, blah, blah, and we OK I think we can. O'Donnell/We would like some options, we would like you to let us know what you recommend. Lehman/In the absence of action on your part. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 133 O'Donnell/Right. Vanderhoef/Recommend, what they're going to do, what policies are they going to use. O'Donnell/Exactly. Pfab/So in the meantime we start drafting an ordinance? Lehman/No. Champion/No. Pfab/But have it ready if they don't come up with. Lehman/We've got plenty of time to draft the ordinance and there are several ordinances that we could, we can (can't hear). Kanner/Ernie I like the idea of adding the things that you mentioned before, the other options. Lehman/I think we have to add all of the possibilities. Kanner/In the letter. Lehman/Yea, all right. Kanner/So I don't know if Steve wrote those down before. Atkins/I did. (can't hear). Lehman/We'll get together. Kanner/And what's the response we're looking for as Ross asked before, are we looking for a letter back or are we looking for a meeting? Lehman/We're going to have a meeting at which time they will be able to vocalize their response to our letter. Pfab/Give them all options as to when to have the meeting. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 134 Kanner/So we'll just come up to the microphone and they'll give 3-5 minutes. Lehman/Depending on how it works. Well if the meeting is going to be strictly between us and the bar owners I think that we need to devote up to a couple hours. I don't think we can be there all night once we start getting competitive but I think we owe them that. And let the chips where they may, see what comes up then. Kanner/And just the bar owners? And just the downtown bar owners or all bar owners? Lehman/I think if your going to send it to bar owners your going to have to send it to all the liquor license bar owners in Iowa City aren't you? Champion/And how do you differentiate a bar? Atkins/Thank you. Pfab/Licensee is what we were talking. Atkins/That's everybody. Lehman/If it is an establishment where you can go in and consume the beverage on the premise it's a bar. Champion/Does that make. Lehman/(can't hear). Karr/I just, you want it by the drink, not carry out? Lehman/That's right. If you can't consume it in the premises we're not going to send them a letter. Karr/I think you'll be surprised at how many may not meet that definition of bar but we certainly can distinguish by the drink yes. Lehman/Yes, all right. Kanner/Wait, Marian I didn't understand. Karr/That includes private clubs also. Vanderhoef/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 135 Karr/That's by the drink. Lehman/Oh which would include the Athletic Club and the Elks Club and that sort of thing. Karr/No their not, I'm thinking of Eagle's, Moose, Elks, those. Lehman/Oh OK that's fine. Karr/By the drink, the hotels. Lehman/You didn't say a deer did you? Karr/Deer, but the hotels. Kanner/Is it approximately 80 or so places? Karr/I don't have that in front of me there's 150 total, there would be, I know easily it's 80. Kanner/OK so at least. Karr/Easily. Lehman/We'll probably see, my guess would be you'll see the ones from. (END OF 00-57 SIDE 2) Karr/The last time you had 23 establishments, remember how full it was, you had 23. Lehman/Well when are we going to have this get together? Champion/How many does this room fill? Karr/75 maybe. Champion/OK well Steve the last time we were here we had a round table, we'll just have to move up there, it's just a lot easier to have things here, this is where people expect to come. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 136 Karr/If you sit up here and let the folks sit down there and address you at the podium you certainly get your maximum use of the room. But again most people will bring more than one person. Lehman/Can we get 100 in here? Vanderhoef/And we've got a TV in the hall and people can come in and come out like we do for any other public hearing. Lehman/All fight we'll do that then. When do we want to do this? Vanderhoef/Well I think we should suggest a date that they would be back to us. Champion/Yea. Vanderhoef/Whether that be four weeks, six weeks. Lehman/Well. Kanner/This is your chance for a date. Give us a date. Pfab/OK where' s a calendar. Vanderhoef/I would say fight after the 4th of July. Pfab/And you will be amazed at how many will be fishing in Minnesota about that time. Champion/Right after the 4th, July. Pfab/That's all right, anytime, just set a date, they are, or their legal representative. Champion/I don't have my market schedule with me but any Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday would work. Lehman/Well get the letter ready, we'll have it ready at the next work session which will be the 1 lth, we'll decide the date at that point. Karr/12th. Karr/You might not want to wait that long. Vanderhoef/No, let's set the date tomorrow night. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 137 Lehman/Set the date, bring your calendars tomorrow night. Vanderhoef/And we'll set the date tomorrow night, so that they know they have a time limit to get this going. Lehman/All fight Pfab/I think we're a toothless??? dog. Champion/Can we go home? Lehman/Not yet, we're almost there Connie, you guys. Vanderhoef/You sit down and I can (can't hear). Staff Evaluation Lehman/On the 31 st of this month we have scheduled evaluation of our staff people and I put a little memo in the packet. Only four of us have done this before, three of us have not, I found it to be a very difficult procedure the first time I did it. I just put some ideas that I found helpful. Is there anybody have any comments or additions or whatever because I think it would be kind of nice if we know what each other are thinking before we get there? I mean procedurally. O'Donnell/Ernie I thought what you came up with was very good. Lehman/Well it's helpful, I mean I find it helpful. O'Donnell/It gave you criteria to go by, I thought it was very good. Lehman/Well if there are other additions to that it would be nice for, if any of us have additions to that to let the rest of us know. Goal Setting Kanner/I have a question about the May 25 gathering as far as the agenda and how we're going to have input into that. Champion/Goal setting. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 138 Lehman/Oh the goal setting. From 8 to 12 is going to be with Tim Shields and I think he will pretty much set the agenda for the first four hours. Kanner/Well are we going to get a copy of that in the next week or so? Lehman/I don't know that he puts out copies of his agenda. Atkins/No he does not. I'm preparing a memo that I've understood what you want, Tim is in the morning from 8 to 12 where it's a discussion of the inner workings of the Council, relations amongst each other, how you govern, how you do business. In the afternoon is a more traditional goal setting where each of you. And I was going to conduct that session and I'm preparing a memo and I'm going to be suggesting to you bring with you ideas, here' s how we can go through the priority process but that's what I was going to do. That's a more traditional kind of approach to it. That's what I understood you wanted and we'd be out of here. Kanner/Right and I think it's still a good idea for Tim to present an agenda for his morning session. Atkins/I'll ask him about it, I can't guarantee that. Kanner/So we can think about it and ifthere's any exercises he has to do and we have any suggestions we can get feedback but I would think it's good for discussion of this type to have some sort of agenda ahead of time. Atkins/And I was going to prepare one again for my end of the thing. I will call Tim but he has traditionally not prepared something at that point. Lehman/I think Tim pretty much, I've been to two of his sessions where he was a moderator or, he pretty much plays it by ear, he kind of likes us to all come in with nobody having any idea ofwhat's going to happen and just let the chips fall where they may, he's a great facilitator. You know people are pretty much then say what comes to their mind not something they've prepared for or has an opportunity to sit down and talk with somebody about it because it's fight off of the cuff and those responses are pretty good responses generally. I don't know if he'll have an agenda or not but he did not, the only time that I've been to some. Atkins/I've never seen him have one Steven. Champion/I move we adjoum. Lehman/OK Council time we'll start tomorrow night. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500 May 15, 2000 Council Work Session Page 139 Champion/Right. Vanderhoef/Sounds good to me. Atkins/Good night all. Adjourned 10:00 PM. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 15, 2000. WS051500