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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-05-25 TranscriptionMay 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 1 May 25, 2000 Goal Setting 8:00 AM Council: Lehman, Vanderhoef, Kanner, Champion, Wilbum, Pfab, O'Donnell. Staff: Atkins, Helling, Dilkes, Karr Facilitator: Tim Shields Tapes: 00-58, Side 2; 00-62, 00-63, 00-64, 00-65, Both Sides Introduction Shields: Real briefly, I think some of you know some part of my background but I just want to run through it real quickly. I am the director of the Institute of Public Affairs. The Institute's vision is providing services and information about (can't hear) government in Iowa. I am in my 21st year at the Institute and about 13 or 14 years as director. I have been doing this kind of work over those 21 y ears. A part of that I have worked in city government and county govemment in Iowa. Most importantly I (can't hear) so that you can understand. I will do 50 sessions more this year with city councils throughout the state of Iowa. Some cities (can't hear) when I work in Burlington it will actually be the 20th year in a row. A lot of cities that I work with are 14, 15, 16 years consecutively. A lot of that work has proved to be planning but it has also always been focused on the team building side or working on council effectiveness as well. Particularly after an election year, it is about at least 60/40 in terms of what we go out and try to do. I have worked in some places where we have let's say out of a five member council we have ended up with four new faces and we will skew what we do to a lot more work on team building and how we work together and all of that than we do in other lessons. I am a- now 21 years also- living in the best city in Iowa. This is my town. This is my community. One part of that- when I go and travel around the state and work in other places, part of the value of being a third party facilitator is that I have no vested interest in the outcome. Now- (can't hear)- Karr: You wanted me to tum the sound didn't you Steve? Shields: I want to tell you the truth that even in those instances that is not quite fight because I do have a vested in interest in those groups being successful. Whoever I am with. But in this town, you know, obviously I do have a vested interest and have a strong love for this community. But I do promise you this- my professionalism will prevail. I will not talk once today about the much-needed indoor baseball practice facility. I won't say a word about that- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 2 Lehman: Unless we bring it up? Shields: Well, then of course. But the point in this- I think you have to trust me on that in terms of professionalism. Clearly, I know more about you than I do in many places I go- at least for the first time because I do live here and I am able to follow your work. But, I am not here as a citizen. I am here as Tim Shields as a facilitator to work with you. One other piece of that- two other pieces real quickly. Almost- well, nearly- I guess I should be able to say it is nearly 100%- but almost all the growth communities in Iowa I work with. And I have worked with most of them for a long period of time. And to the degree that growth communities are different in Iowa than others, and Iowa City being one of those, you know there is a strong background there. And the other thing I have to say to you in terms of what makes us a little bit unique here in Iowa City is I do work with the other two Regent's communities. I worked with Ames for a very long time and I have worked with Cedar Falls for the last 7 or 8 years. What I bring to this then is some ideas and some perspectives. But what is most important here is your ideas, your perspectives. What I sent you last week is true- there are very few absolutes in the area that we are going to be talking about. There are a couple though and my role is primarily as facilitator but I would hope to be able to share with you at least some perspectives as we go through this. And I want you to know this up front- my value base in this, where do I come from? Is it because it is ideologically right or is it because my humanness tendencies, which are very strong, would tell me to say: whatever? No. Anything you would hear from me that sounds like a should or ought- that you should do this or you ought to consider that comes from one place only. And that is effectiveness. What leads to an effective council? Now, even those things that I would identify as probably absolutes like you have got to come to the meetings, still have to be situationally translated to whatever community you are in. If I could tell folks "here is the 15 steps you have got to do and this absolutely fits for you no matter where you are at or no matter what the situation is" I probably wouldn't be traveling 30,000 miles a year inside of Iowa. I could just send that out. But that isn't the way it is. So even in those areas where I think we will bump into some absolutes it still has to be situationally defined. So, but please understand I don't bring a point of view about any of the issues you deal with. I don't think that there is only one way to resolve any of the issues that you may talk about. I do think there is some ideas that might be worth considering. So, in a nutshell, that is a background. The baseball comments do worry me a little bit and will share this with you. I spent a lot of years, you know, Steve's Lexus was purchased on what I paid for for practice fields in this town. I coached baseball for a lot of years. My wife teaches Catechism. I This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 3 have always insisted they are equal so I just do want you to know where I come from on that. You know, they are both transcendental. They both lead to spiritual enlightenment. Okay, real quickly, I shared with you a potential agenda when I sent you that memo and I am wide open on this. You need to develop this with me. FLIP CHART #1 Council Effectiveness Shields: Number one, I want to start with talking about council effectiveness. I am not going to lecture to you. I mean, I will probably, you know, try to suggest you think about a couple of things but for the most part I want you with me to define what is an effective council. And I think it is real important that we define it amongst ourselves. And we will go through a process of doing that. And when we get that up in front of us we are going to take a look then at how we are operating here and do some assessment. Assessment Shields: Now, I want to tell you too, and for everyone's benefit, nowhere- nowhere- have they ever got it perfect. Nor will they ever get it perfect anywhere. This is a wonderful, beautiful business of representative democracy and self-government. It is inherently flawed. And it always will be wonderfully so. So when I talked about doing an assessment I know that there are things that we can do better. No matter where we are, no matter how hard we try, no matter how good we are, we know that we can get better. But we need to take that step taking a look at ourselves. Strategies for Improvement: Informal Openness Focus Constructive Civility Silence Implies Affirmation Shields: Through that we need to, hopefully, will come up with some strategies, ideas, methods. Some changes perhaps that we want to do to help us improve, to be a more effective council. I mean, we can call this teamwork. We can call it council relations, but I do want to get this clear- we are talking about amongst council and between council and (can't hear) staff when we talk about this concept of teamwork or working relationships. That is sort of the (can't hear) that we will be operating in. Now, I want to give you an opportunity to tell me does this make sense? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 4 You want to add to it, you want to change it, you want to modify it. But before I do that first the ground rules are very important. One is it is an informal meeting and you all know that. I mean, and you operate in this kind of an arena on a regular basis and I am aware of that. But this is informal both in the sense legally but also in the sense of hopefully you have an opportunity to really relate to each other in an informal way. The key ground rule is this- is openness. I need you to lay your cards on the table. I need you to share your perspective, your opinion, your point of view, your feelings. I really need you to do that. Now, I joke with folks as I go around the state. I have found that over the years elected officials usually do have opinions. I don't know- you know. Champion: Not this council. Shields: And in most instances they are willing to share them. But I also know that, by the way, in that regard when I work with a council sometimes and everybody is holding their cards like this there is a problem. They are not going to be an effective council because they aren't sharing those opinions. And sometimes my job is to pry those fingers open and get those opinions out on the table. I suspect with this group that sharing your opinions and point of views and attitudes are going to be fairly easy. And I am counting on that. But there is another side of this that is the greater challenge this morning and the most important one. And that is to really hear each other. To really be open to what you hear from the other folks. Now, by this time in May we have had five months together. We have got a track record. We have had experiences. We have had frustrations. We have had issues as a group to the point where- and I will pick on my oldest friend in the group here, Emie- that Steve might start talking and Emie has this thing go on in his head that says "I have heard this crap before", clink! The filter goes down. You know, it is a normal human behavior and what I am asking you today to meet this challenge is to not let that happen. To really, really hear each other as well as share your perspective. I am going to make two promises. If we do that, number one, we will be effective today. And number two this time will go by much faster than you thought. But happily, we are not out in this cold, drizzly, rainy day. So, I think we are happy to be here anyway. But, none the less, those are the two promises I make. We have to stay focused and remain constructive. Now particularly on the focus side that is my job. I will be pushy. You know, part of what I get paid to do is to be rude and I am pretty good at it. I will promise you on my other life I am I polite and civil lowan, just like you. However, I will- if I push too fast, I push too far- tell me to shut up. You won't hurt my feelings. But I will try to keep us moving and moving us towards closure. We have to be constructive, particularly in this realm. You know, the old beating a dead horse or going down a street that isn't This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 5 going to get us anywhere- I will try to be conscious of that but I am going to more likely give you free reign and let you go where you think you need to go. But sometimes I may be asking the question "are we going in a positive direction?". So I need you to help me with that and I think you can. Obviously, we need civility and courtesy. And I am not concerned about that but I want to make sure we stay on that track with each other. And finally, a ground rule that allows me to move much faster than I might otherwise- and that is silence implies affirmation. For example, if the group is going through a process and it looks like we have come to some understanding I am going to hold that back up to you and if you are not in agreement with that it is your responsibility to speak up. There may be a sensitive area where I need to simply go all the way around the table but I don't want to have to do that on everything. So silence implies affirmation. It is a ground rule that allows us to move much quicker than we might otherwise. I have thought about this a lot in this last year- 21 years ago I got a grant when I first came to the Institute to work with a national level consultant and there was very little of this kind of work going on with city councils around the country at that time. I watched him fail with the city. He required the council to do strategic planning and team building 18 hours. Now, my first learning was- this isn't going to work in Iowa! You know, so we would be able to try to break that down in a way that allows us to be effective. But this has been one of those things that I have been able to use to allow us to do that. Give me some feedback about this- about the agenda and if you think there is something that we need to get to that you are afraid we might miss or we need to change or modify something let me know. And I would like to ask this too- and for Ernie, this might go back a ways. Mike, how long have you been on the council now? O'Donnell: 17 years. Shields: It just feels like that? O'Donnell: 2 ½ years. Shields: 2 ½ years. Right. And Connie? Same? Champion: Four. Shields: Four. Okay. And the other three are brand- fairly brand new. I won't call you rookies but you are still fairly new to the process. I would like all of you to think back as to why you got involved. And for the newer members this is fairly easy, it is fairly recent history. But why did you decide to run and to get involved and what made you want to serve in this This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 6 capacity in your community. Ross, give me some feedback and answer that basic question if you would. Wilburn: The feedback first or the basic question? Shields: Whatever you want to do. Wilburn: I will start with the why. Many of you know my background is in human services and a lot of the work that we do is greatly affected by not only city council but the county and state and on up the ladder. And so I felt that I was someone that could and try and impact some policy that affected young people and families. And so that is part of the why. That is probably the professional of the why. The personal why is probably just being an African American male and parent it was kind of that role model type thing to someone willing to try to put themselves out there to represent the different hats that I wear and the different who I am. In terms of feedback for the three points up there- I think the one that jumps out for me is council effectiveness. And I think there is a few different parts to that. Part of it has to do with meetings that we have. But also the other parts relate to how effective we are with staff. And then how we represent council ourselves out in the community. Shields: Good points. Sort of call that together (can't hear) staff. Wilburn: I guess I would also throw into that with the media too. Shields: That makes sense. Pretty good break down. Thank you for that. Mike, why did you get involved? O'Donnell: That is a good question. I guess I have always been involved in my community. And my second love is local politics. I have worked on campaigns. I have tried to get people that I thought it was important elected to head this county in the direction that I think it should be heading. And I worked on several campaigns and I got tired of the people I was working for getting in and not doing what they told me they were going to do. So I thought it was ineffective. I am not saying that I am doing that any better but at least if it doesn't happen they way that I visualize it, it is my fault. And why I ran is to try and improve the credibility of the council. I thought we had- we had lost a little bit of respect in surrounding communities and I just- perception is very important. And Ross had a good point as far as what we say to the media and I said two years ago that what you say reverberates a long, long distance. And it is a perception and an attitude that you send out that can be very negative or very positive. As far as council effectiveness- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 7 Shields: Is this- as far as an agenda does this make sense to you? Do you think we will miss something? O'Donnell: I think the first one is the most important one. The council effectiveness is- you know, that is up to each individual as to how effective we think we are being. My assessment on this council to date is we have been fairly effective. I think there has been some civility in the council. I don't believe that we have got down on each other. I just think that we can be more effective. And we have had to bring in some new ordinances or rules with this new council and that kind of disturbs me. We have never before in the history of Iowa City had an ordinance where you were compelled to vote. And we need to do that. We have done- we have had to do things with this particular council differently than we have with councils in the past. And I don't know if that is good or bad. But, I always push for efficiency and I just- you know, I guess I expect efficiency. Shields: Okay, thank you. Emie? Lehman: I ran a long time ago. You know, it is kind of funny. When I ran for council I probably would not have run if John McDonald had not retired. John McDonald, I had always felt, was a very considerate Mayor. I thought he treated the council particularly well. I thought he treated the public particularly well. He was the sort of person that someone could come to a council meeting and tell you that fire hydrants should be painted orange with black dots and he would thank that person for their opinion. He was very, very respectful of the public and he was very respectful of the council. And during the years that he was on the council, which I think was 12 years, there were people on the council who were not necessarily as respectful of each other as he was. And I felt- not that I certainly could ever fill John McDonald's shoes- I felt that that particular perspective needed to stay on the council. And I have always been interested in local govemment. So I mean, that part of it- I was on the Planning and Zoning Commission back in the 70's. I felt that the perspective that John gave the council was an important perspective and I guess that is one of the reasons that I did run. And I guess it is because of that that I, you know, a council can be effective with seven people if you only have four people doing the work- or making the decisions. I don't like that at all. I feel that councils if they are going to be really effective and really meaningful need teamwork and they need to speak with one voice- not that the descending opinion shouldn't be heard, because they always should. But once decisions are made you are either part of the team or you are not part of the team and if you are going to be effective This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 8 you are going to have to do a certain amount of teamwork. And I think that is kind of why we are here today. I guess I would concur with your outline of what we should be doing. Shields: Thank you Emie. Connie? Champion: Well, I don't have anything quite as philosophical as that. I just had a lot of pressure from community members over a couple of years to run for city council and so along the way somewhere I decided I would do it because I actually thought I would be good at it. And, I mean, I don't know if I am or not but I thought I would be. And I need to be involved. I absolutely have to keep myself busy- I am kind of an insomniac and I have lots of energy and I don't like to- I don't have any wonderful fulfilling hobbies to occupy that time. So I really have to stay busy. And as far as the agenda, you know, I think it is fine. I am one of those people who don't believe that we all have to get along. And so in some ways I view this whole thing as a waste of my time when I have a lot of work to do at my business. But I am willing to be cooperative and try to gain something out of it. But I guess I might as well just lay that on the line that I am here under protest. Shields: Okay. Well, that is two of us. That is good to know. No- I am just kidding. All fight, we will be the measure of that at the end and see what it does for you. I will be clear with you all though. It is not my responsibility to make sure that you get something out of it. it is not my responsibility. Champion: Right. I am going at it with an open mind. Shields: Right, but what I am trying to share with you Connie is that you are just as responsible for that as anybody else at the table. Champion: Sure. Shields: Good. Irvin, how about for you? Pfab: Where do you want to start? Shields: Why did you run? Pfab: Well, I guess I felt that the community needed to become more involved in their business. And as a result the only way that you can keep the community interested is for the community to feel that they have a voice. Now, I am hoping to represent some of those who I think have kind of This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 9 dropped out. Because why? It is a waste of my time. Why get involved? For some people it is a matter of keeping body and soul together and that is all the time they have so they can't worry about city government. Other people feel they are not (can't hear). Nobody cares about them, so you know, just shut it off. Well to prove that you look at how many people turn out for an election. I became involved in trying to get people out to elections with some work that I was doing and as a personal (can't hear). And I have had a chance to go to some conferences at the Kennedy Center and things like that about how- what makes democracy work and where does it quit? And it works as long as people stay involved. I think that answers that. I don't know. Maybe (can't hear). About effectiveness, I- the city council effectiveness, I am not sure if I can agree totally with what Emie says that we have to speak as one voice. Does the community speak with one voice? And do we represent the community or not? Shields: I don't think Emie said quite that. Pfab: I mean, he thought to be more effective we should speak in one voice. I am not criticizing, I am trying to sort this thing out too Ernie. So I appreciate your approach that is different than mine. I lost my train of thought- anyway. Shields: True. I am not sure that is what Emie said. Lehman: It isn't what I said. Shields: No, I think what Ernie is saying is that when we can find that consensus that can lead to more effectiveness but that we would certainly- one of the absolutes is this- I will jump ahead- is we have to agree to disagree. It is the nature of the business. This is built on a concept of conflict. Right? Right. That is what this is about. It is to make sure that those different voices come to the table, those different perspectives. You bring different backgrounds and we come to that. But it is, I think what Ernie is saying is that we have to agree to disagree and approach it in that way. And then when we have made our decisions we move and support those. Pfab: Okay, because you know if we all agreed six of us are unnecessary. You know, one person could speak for all of us. The other point is- which somebody mentioned to me just very recently and you will probably hear it again- the person made a very strong statement and he said "the seven of us sitting around this table are the only people the city asked to work for them. Everybody else is hired." We have been asked by the citizens to work for them. The only people in the city. Okay, effectiveness, I don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 10 Shields: Does this make sense in terms of (can't hear). Pfab: Yeah- well, okay, maybe not. All right, I kept encouraging that we work more in the public. And my interest was seeing that the city council's work session be televised because obviously not very many people can make it. Or they don't have the time or the interest or they don't understand. But I think that that is one way you keep people involved and it also makes us more human. I think it solves the problem of some of the ideas out here where we don't agree. The city council as of right now, the formal meeting is the only way that you can speak directly to the public unless you are the Mayor. I mean, there is nothing wrong with that. That is why I think the work session is important because then people can see yes we are human. We don't agree, but we work our way through it. Shields: That might be one of these ideas you want to talk about (can't hear). Pfab: That was my concem. I am sure I will probably look more stupid than the rest of the people on here so I knew that would (can't hear) to promote that. I feel the best thing you can do is- I was saying that I (can't hear) fool names and fools faces are often seen in public places. So I don't try- I try to stay out of the limelight because I don't really want to be called or be known as a fool. Shields: So what you are saying to me is there may be some ideas that we need to talk about? Thank you Irvin. Dee, how about for you? Vanderhoef: I came to city council probably in a progression of volunteerism. And learned as I went along in local, state and national in volunteer organizations. And then I was asked. For me, it was the next step up from doing commission work. I felt I had something to offer. I think it is always to have a perspective from the woman's side. It is an opportunity to give back to the community. And it is more than the community because having just gone through a second election last November I realized how much more I receive when I go out and I do more regional and state kind of things. And it opens up a window that allows input from people all over the nation to come back and it is a grounding for me to know that Iowa City is on a real good plane. In fact, a much higher flat probably than a lot of the councils across the nation. And that we all have similar problems and successes and that to me is very rewarding. Shields: Oh, yeah. It is, isn't it? Indeed. I mean, it is one of the great growth experiences of life. It generally is. To be able to participate in this type of process. Does this make sense to you? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 11 Vanderhoef: Absolutely. Shields: Okay, good. Thank you. Steve? Kanner: Why I ran or wanted to be on city council? Guilt I would say has I little bit to do with it. Maybe specifically Jewish guilt. Shields: (can' hear) well, I know the difference though. Kanner: I think there is quite a few of that going around. So, but I look at it as a positive thing. My Jewish upbringing and it has a lot to do with where I am at today. I think there is a sense of social justice that I was raised with and that is part of the Jewish tradition. It is something that I learned from my parents and from my rabbi and something I appreciated. And so I think guilt a bit is a good thing and it affected me that I need to be active in working for social change. And I think there is- for me there is different ways to do it and one of those was running for office. So it is just one of many ways to try to make change. The thing that- one of the things I am trying to figure out is when to compromise and when to hold the line. I read an author called Saul Elinsky who wrote a book Rules for Radicals and he talked about the name of the game is compromise. And as an example he said you don't go into a kosher home eating a ham sandwich. And so there is nothing wrong with changing some outer things. But for me it is hard to know where that line is. So I want to learn how to do that better and learn when to compromise and do the teamwork thing. And when to hold my own core and push that figuring I am representing certain people. And so along those lines I think this is a good agenda to have. Although as far as maybe all of them, I want to look at a couple people have mentioned how we can disagree in a better fashion. And where are the limits of compromise and disagreement and how we can interact with everyone in the disagreement? The agreement part is easy- when we agree. It is when we disagree and how far does one go? Shields: Good point. Good, thank you. I thank all of you. By the way, most of you are type A. I have already got that figured out and you don't have to raise your hands. I appreciate a little bit of process here at the front end. Number one, I want to make sure that we are all pretty much on track and I suspect that we are. But I am not here to impose structure on you. I want to get a structure that allows us to get to talking and that is what I wanted to do. And it was also really wonderful to hear a little bit from each one of you about how you got into this. Two real quick comments- this dates me. I worked with Elinsky in Chicago a very long time ago. A very long time ago. Secondly, and this should help you get a sense of my This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 12 value I bring to this. I believe sincerely, deeply, completely, in this concept of self-government. I am continually amazed by the beauty of it, by the excitement of it, by its imperfections. The Greeks, as best my reading of history, are the first ones to discuss the idea of freedom and citizenship and democracy. It got lost it would seem for a long time- at least with Westem tradition. I think we did something very special in this country in terms of our definition of that. And I do believe this- at the local level it works. So I have a deep and abiding respect not only for, you know, follow these three steps and you guys will be better, but also for the fact that it can't ever be perfect. So those are the values that I bring to this- or at least some of them. Connie, I agree with one thing you said- thank goodness for me that part of my job isn't to have to go out all over Iowa and make council members love each other. That is not what we have to do. But there are some pieces of how we interrelate that I do think are important. And more importantly perhaps for you are some method strategies that allow us to be more effective. And so, I am not here to have you love each other. You will not have to hold hands all day. I mean, it is optional but we don't have to. Champion: Are we changeable? I mean, I don't know. Are we so ingrained in our own personalities that we handle things- the way we handle them? I don't know. I think I am too old to change. Lehman: I do too. Champion: I don't really want to change. I like myself the way I am. Shields: I will state the obvious. There is absolutely no need for anybody to change their personality. I suppose I shouldn't say that. There are some folks out on the edges I suspect that would come to a situation like that that might actually have to look at changing their personality. I mean, a serial killer- I don't know. We aren't talking about personalities. To the degree that it affects you as individuals we talking about behaviors. But more importantly I think we are talking about processes and methods as a group. You know, less about each of you as an individual as we deal with that. Real quick- there are a few key staffers here. I think we can interact freely or use them as a resource. I think there are going to be times particularly when we get into council staff relationships that I would encourage feedback and response or go can direct questions to them, vice versa. And I also know Mr. Atkins well enough to know that he will speak up where appropriate and where necessary. What we will do also is we will have a couple of short breaks and I will take the Irish approach to that. The German approach would be that at 10:15 precisely we will take a break. We will be back in our seats at 10:30 and you will enjoy the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 13 break. You know, the Irish approach is this. Whenever I feel like it, we will take a short break. Steve- a dear friend of mine, Ralph Rosenberg, and I bumped into this years ago about how I always grew up with this Irish Catholic sense of guilt, and he was explaining to me the Jewish sense of guilt. We figured it out this way- the Jewish sense of guilt is this: they feel it and they have to act on it. The Irish approach is I feel it so I can do what I want. Those are just two different approaches to guilt as we come in. What I want to do know is we are going to get into this very seriously and move into some very specific discussions. We have one element of this that you have to follow with me and we will see how it works. I am going to start with a brainstorming sort of approach to this. But I am not going to put something up here unless we can get at least general agreement. And so right away if we begin to surface differences I want to know, we will talk them through and we will get some different perspectives. We are going to start with this concept of council effectiveness. The first place I want to go to is if the council is effective what would we expect to see as a way of results? What happens if there is an effective council? Kind of going all the way to the end, what are the results from an effective council? FLIP CHART #2 COUNCIL EFFECTIVENESS -City Works Pfab: The (can't hear). City works. Shields: Yeah, (can't hear) if you will from that core element of the city, the delivery of services, response of citizens and needs- it works. Is that what you are saying Irvin? Most everybody would agree with that. That is one of the results of an effective city council? What are some others? What would we expect to see from an effective- if a council is effective? -Making Decisions Champion: I think just getting decisions made that only irritate half of the people. Lehman: (can't hear) Champion: Right. Shields: Say that again Emie. Lehman: Half (can't hear). Shields: Interesting idea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 14 -Timely Manner Lehman: I suspect making- efficiency would be involved I suspect in making decisions. But in a timely, efficient, effective manner. Shields: You know, I am kind of looking for some general points of view. Again to suggest- does this make sense to all of you? Timely manner may be somewhat different in terms of how we define it particularly on issues where we have conflict. But generally speaking you are saying an effective council over a period of time what you would expect to see is that they do make decisions and they do it within a manner that allows that to be an efficient or responsive decision. Okay? Somebody else. Vanderhoef: Preparedness. Shields: I think that would get into the next place where I was to go which is what contributes to this? What are the behaviors? Okay, hold onto that one. I don't want to lose it because it is an important one. I am just looking- what are those outcomes if we have an effective council and council staff relations? What do you see? -Positive Perception Externally and Internally Pfab: I am not sure how this works and that is how does the other part of society (states, other cities) look at us? I am not sure if that matters. What is the- O'Donnell: Community perception. Pfab: Perception by people that are not part of Iowa City on how they look at Iowa City. Is that (can't hear)? O'Donnell: We are getting better ratings now then Seinfeld. And it is because we seem to go on and on and on, on specific subjects when they are clearly for people that are ready to proceed. And that to me is just a matter of efficiency. Shields: So what Irvin is saying- what I am hearing- is that one of the outcomes of an effective cotmcil is that you generally would have a positive perception both internally and externally. Again, remember, this is business of self- govemment. There is no way that you are ever not going to be criticized. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 15 Pfab: I didn't speak of internally. But I was referring to what Mike's idea was. He brought it up. Now other people around Iowa City- not in Iowa City, outside of Iowa City. Shields: I will take this out- would any of you suggest that one of the outcomes of an effective council is that internally you have a fairly positive perception of the city council as well? The city council? Lehman: I think you have to have that if you are going to be an effective council. Pfab: It is all right, I just said it wasn't what I said. Shields: I agree. Pfab: That was yours, not mine. Shields: Now it is Emie's. -Public Debate/Relevant Kanner: I think an effective council, along with perception, is one that has good public debate and inquiry. Shields: Okay, again, I think we are probably getting to a trait but the outcome though is the outcome of effectiveness is that there is actual public debate. Kanner: Well, the public in the sense of the public (can't hear) but more so the council doing it. The council- that is what I am talking about. And that is maybe the flip side of timely manner. Shields: Absolutely. The dynamic. Champion: Maybe it is called informed- conformed decisions. Is that what you were after? Lehman: Of course, maybe you could put relative- relevant debate. Shields: Now, there is some tendencies in the University towns that are a little different than some of the other places. In a certain sense I must admit that I hope we never get totally away from it. I can remember some years ago where the Iowa City City Council (and it predates all of you) was debating at some length a bill that was in the United States Senate in dealing with human rights internationally. I mean, some pans of that goes on in University towns more than other places. But to the point that that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 16 begins to chew up your ability, your agenda, to deal with the issues that are immediate in the city, that is when you speak about relevant. That is part of what you are talking about Ernie? Lehman: Right. -Community Involvement/Empowerment Wilbum: I think an effective council recognizes the role that it can play. This is related to change- to effective change. For example, the idea that the city works. That is kind of the efficiency that things are getting done but I think there can also be a role where the city can impact or affect change. And there is three- in my mind- there is three different ways that community change can happen. One is by social actions, something that Steven already mentioned. Another is by planning. You know, for example, the planning department. They study an issue and come up with the facts and figures and then this is a prescribed solution. But the other is through community development type things. And so, recognizing if an issue comes up what, you know, a sense that this is an area that council can have or that the city can impact change. And also recognize- yeah, perhaps some change needs to happen but another group needs to take charge of this change. Shields: Okay. The outcome we would be seeing here is that we would actually see change in the community. Hopefully an appropriate change. Good. Pfab: A personal privilege here- if you would wear you speaker on the other side. I am just worried about you are going to get hooked up and we are going to see you on your face. Shields: That might be the best thing that happens today. Lehman: Entertainment. Shields: There you go. Thank you though. I appreciate your concern. Kanner: Ross- I may have to add on my own- are you also talking about empowerment of sorts? Wilburn: Yeah. Kanner: So, an effective council empowers the community to make- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 17 Wilbum: When they realize that that is a role that they can play. That they can do. Of course, just to pull some logistical things out- sometimes it can be effective and an appropriate role for a city body to help facilitate some type of community small group discussion to effective change in a neighborhood. Other times it might be more appropriate for if there is an existing group that this is part of what they do. For example, the neighborhood centers, they are looking at facilitating some discussions in the Broadway area with residents and business. It is kind of recognizing perhaps that in this case and in this situation they are more appropriate than city council having a public forum here at the library. So it is kind of a sense of knowing what is the best tool just to get that to happen. -Direction -Give Staff Ability to Fulfill Their Role Lehman: You know, one of the things I think especially in this community with our form of government, if a council is going to be effective they are going to have to let the professional people that we employ do the jobs that we employed them to do. Give them direction when it comes to policy and whatever but let our professional people do their work. They make us look good. Kanner: I agree on hand but on the other hand I think that is where we have philosophical differences. I think that the city council is effective when it is more proactive and takes the lead. So there is, I think, some differences- subtle differences- between our approaches. Lehman: I am talking policy. Kanner: Well certainly you want effective staff but in my view an effective council is one that is more proactive than the staff initiating things more. So I am sort of playing off what you are saying and having some slight disagreement with what you are saying. Lehman: We may have a disagreement here but- Shields: Generally speaking can we say this- an effective- one of the outcomes of an effective council is if there is direction for the community for the organization? Champion: Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 18 Shields: Would you agree to that? And we can debate what exactly that is. But we give the staff the ability to fulfill their roles- the other part of what I am hearing Ernie say. Pfab: What did you say before? I have a mental- Shields: What Emie is saying is that one of the outcomes of an effective council is that there is a direction given to the staff and to the community. That that is one of the outcomes that we would expect to see. I am kind of getting into this in between area. Cognitively it is hard to hold to the outcome and to what leads us to that. I am going to shift gears. One thing I see- and I am not going to- but when you talk about the positive perception the word I would use is that there is some respect. That is what an effective council and effective leadership does create- some respect. Even though in a democratic society we are fair game and happily so. And no one will ever be 100% happy with what you guys do in your community. And as Connie was saying, no matter what you do there will be somebody unhappy. All that being true- effective leadership leads to some level of respect for the institution in the community. Would you agree with that? Lehman: Yeah. And if a council isn't respective of its own members the public never will be. Shields: I want to get to that. Steve, I am asking for this model from the council in terms of outcomes. Is there anything that you see from the years that you have been around and from the years working here? I give you that opportunity on occasion. (changed tapes) The outcome should be, or at least part of it. Now let's get into the real stuff. I have pulled a couple of you back as you started to get there. What are the characteristics, traits, methods, behaviors that support getting to that outcome? FLIP CHART #3 -Preparedness -Homework/Consideration of time -Prior information seeking Vanderhoef: The preparedness. Shields: Okay. Let's talk about this one. From here on out we are really not- we are getting into some things where we are going to be able to use this to measure ourselves. Does this make sense to you? Lehman: Oh, yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 19 Shields: I mean, part of what we are talking about here is that old concept of homework. Two real quick things about that. One of my ongoing concerns for city councils in Iowa- and nationally it is also true- is that you are volunteers by nature. You are lay people by nature. In constitution- well, actually the constitution doesn't bar ex-city managers from running. It should, but it doesn't. The worst city council would be seven ex-city managers. You know that Steve. But, you are lay people. You are not professionals in the delivery of city govemment services. It is inherent. And one of the things that is happening is I think we are asking more and more. Because of the complexity of local govemment we are asking more and more of council members in terms of having to study, leam, take in a whole lot of complex issues. It is a long-term concern that I have. But clearly, homework and preparedness is a key element of being an effective council. Agree with that? The old meetings- I am so old that I can remember coming to meetings where the council members are opening their packets when they came in the meeting. And we did all right. Today what happens then? We get inefficient. I think sometimes then we slow down and sometimes it just slows everything to a halt if folks aren't prepared or aren't ready when they come to meetings. The other part of preparedness is that you are getting information that helps you. You are getting it in a way that you understand it. Right? One other element of preparedness is that if you have a question based on what you think you have been studying for and getting involved with that you have processes and methods to get that basic question answered before you are actually together as a group. Lehman: That is a huge point because if we get into council meetings and we ask questions at meetings that should have been asked at staff level and take up a ton of council time- that is why I brought up relevancy. I mean, some of that stuff is information that is easily available and inappropriate to sit and use council time to do it. Shields: So that makes sense to all of you? Kanner: Well, to a certain extent certainly one wants to do that but again, trying especially if one has the minority point of view I think part of it you want the public to hear some of the questioning that goes into that minority point of view and that is the public debate and inquiry that I think is important. And so I think needs some of that in the public view. And that is healthy. I think that leads to a more effective council and (can't hear) and that is my point of view. So I agree in the general sense certainly you want to be prepared and have prior info but you also want to bring some things to the public is my point of view. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 20 Lehman: I agree with you except that when questions are asked at a council meeting the public has no possibility of knowing what you are talking about. All you do at that point is slow down the meeting. Wilbum: I think something that I have observed some people in other forums- an effective way that they can both show the people that they are trying to represent that they have been thoughtful and trying to raise some of these issues is rather than ask a certain set of specific questions of a staff person at that point go ahead and make a prearranged, you know, a prior arrangement to get those answers and then make a statement. Here is some of the questions that I asked as I explored this issue- bang, bang, bang. I disagree with this approach because of this and then in my opinion I think that is helpful because you are showing that you were being thoughtful in trying to dig at some of the issues but you are still letting people know how you went about arriving at that decision. And in my mind that can be a more effective way. Shields: I have captured that and we will come back because that is sort of on that strategy side of where we need to get. But do you hear that though Steve in terms of there might be a different approach? Kanner: Yeah, I think there is a lot of approaches we should- and it involves more things like televising Monday nights so we can have that- Shields: I think we are going to get to that discussion. I will share though part of what you said- I appreciate what you have said. I have heard it many times before and I think there has to be some truth in what Steve is saying as well- some element of that rings true. I worked with one city where there is an attorney who finds himself more often than not in the minority in the council. What he has come to do over the last couple of years is to take 25-35-40 minutes to go through, again, repetitive questions plus long statements. And in his point of view from this attomey's sort of perspective is I think it has to be on the record. Is that effective? You know, I can tell you that the other five members or six members of that council do not believe it is effective. So, you know, again what we think iS fight inside may be true for us individually but I think a~ we go through this we need to continue to look at also what happens for the group. Yeah? Pfab: I think for people who believe very strongly having it on the record allows them to say without saying it- I told you so. And they can go to their constituents and say well, I lost but I tried. Shields: Yep. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 21 Champion: There is a good way with what Ross brought up. I like that idea. There is a difference between getting your point across to the public and on the record and grandstanding. There are two different issues. Shields: And by the way, nothing that we do here today precludes any one of you from making whatever choices you want to as long as they are within the Code of Iowa. Nothing, you know. Nothing at all. You can choose to do what you need to do or what to do. What is another one? Another trait, behavior, or method that you think would lead to these kinds of outcomes that create an effective council? -Open-minded Champion: I think you need to be open-minded. I have a hard time with that. -Mutual Respect/Civility Lehman: We all do on some levels. Respectful. I think if you are going to be effective you have to have respect- mutual respect. Shields: I would add to that the word "civility". I mean, as a way to talk about that. And I think that mutual respect, you know, sometimes we are in conflict. Sometimes that is kind of hard but, you know, none the less it is important. You know, all of these rather controverted rules of the United States Senate and the way they debate- have you ever gone and listened or watched them? I am just angrier than heck at Ross who is my opponent on this issue and I rise and I say the honorable and fight thinking gentleman from Iowa whom I have worked with so successfully and for so many years in this instance I must disagree- you know where all that came from? There was a beating- a Senator nearly died in the United States Senate from a beating that occurred. One Senator beating another one. and what gave rise out of that was not only this nod to civility that you all can give fight here but it became institutionalized as the way they do business. But the other side of this [is] image. Image. Have you been in towns, have you worked with councils, have you met councils in your travels in Iowa or nationally where it is like Monday nights or Tuesday night at the fights? What happens to the image of this institution? Champion: (can't hear) Lehman: We aren't that bad. Champion: I am just teasing. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 22 Shields: What happens to the image of the institution in the community when we fail to do this. Now, the other piece of this I share with you and I am just jumping, you know, I am trying to help you with time. But the other part of this is how the public interacts with you and how the public interacts with staff in meetings as well is part of this. Would you agree? Champion: And you brought up a word that I think is important and that is consideration of other people's time. As part of the preparedness. Shields: Yeah. Good point. Kanner: Could you scoot that over to your left a little please so I can see it? Shields: Sure. Kanner: Thanks. That is good. Shields: You bet. Thanks. Another one [is] element, method, behavior. -Don't take it personally O'Donnell: Grudge. You have to have this ability not to carry a grudge. And if you lose one inch you set it behind and move onto another one. I have observed some councilors that have taken it personally and not been effective for the balance of the meeting. That is a very difficult thing to do. Especially if you believe in an issue. Shields: Absolutely. This one I think is extremely- this is one of my absolutes. You know? And not that everybody has to practice it and there is no statutory requirement. But in terms of being an effective council you have you have got to be able to practice this on a general basis. -Shared sense of leadership Lehman: You also have to support council's decisions even when you don't agree with them. It doesn't mean that you go out and wave the flag and jump up and down and say I really, really think we should spend a million dollars to build this trail between this two block area that you voted against, but on the other hand you don't fight it. Except the decision of the council. I think you have to do that. You don't have to- you do have to show some teamwork and support for the decisions that the council makes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 23 Shields: Isn't it a little tougher- I want to get to it, I want to make sure we open this up for discussion as well. But don't take it personally real quickly just real quickly though- you all understand what we are saying is that this is the business of conflict? You win some, you lose some. That is the way it is. The nature of it. And when- most councils that are, all councils that are effective will share with this- these kinds of ideas with me. We vote, it is done. I may go home and say to my spouse "well, the idiots- they were wrong and I was right". But, I don't carry it on to the next issue. That is part of not taking it personally. The other part is not personalizing it. One bit of advice that came from a Mayor who had been Mayor 38 years- he told me this by the way when I first came to the Institute 21 years ago- he said "Mr., Shields you have been to grad school and you will make all of this complicated but it is really simple. Just tell them this-", and it is really true, "that it is personalizing issues". One bit of advice is when you sit at that table you are Ross, Mike, Emie, Steve Councilperson. You are not who you are as a total human being necessarily at that table. So when I disagree with your point of view on an issue, I am not attacking you the human being. Right? So, two sides, being able to let it go on a win or lose either way, but also not personalizing the decision making. Now, I think this holds up for one reason- there are very few value decisions in city govemment. Pfab: I am sorry, what did you say? Shields: Value decisions. Very few actually. There are some. And there are some council members who will define the world a little differently than I might in terms of how broad that definition of value decisions are. I have joked about it- there is not a Republican or Democrat way to pave the street. O'Donnell: That was one of my points too. We are a non-partisan body. And I have seen it used as a platform for Green party, Republican party, Democratic party and it is inappropriate and you shouldn't use it to further- it is non- partisan. Wilbum: I picked up from actually watching you, Emie, when I was talking to some of the student government classes and they will ask, and they ask very good questions, they will ask why did you guys do this? And I will say council decided and my personal opinion is. And that allows me still to kind of get the idea out to them that it is this body that if you want to try and have your voice heard or make some other change then it is your responsibility for that to happen. This is how I can still get my view in as to why I decided that way and what my personal value is. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 24 Lehman: And I think that attitude is so important. When you disagree you support your council. Certainly you may indicate that you didn't agree with that decision but that really makes you part of the team. Shields: Sure. Lehman: You know, you build- you really build consensus doing that. I absolutely agree. Wilbum: I guess it is also another way for me to kind of let go if it is an issue that I lost on. You know, to say council decided this, it is kind of an internal letting go of that and now I am going to- Kanner: Actually Tim I wanted to disagree with your definition. Sometimes there is a question of whether or not to pave the road at all. Shields: That is a whole different issue. Kanner: And so that is a philosophy of- so it is a philosophical value. Shields: It is a philosophy and an approach. Kanner: People come in with different approaches to the whole concept of what is bricks and mortar issues or not. Shields: I don't disagree with that at all. I want you to sort- what I am suggesting is that we have to sort out and what I think you need to sort out are personal values and political values. What I am suggesting to you is there are very few decisions you make at this table in city govemment that are really dealing only with personal value issues. Political values are something different. We debate those and we can actually- most folks are able to learn and shift and share in the political value realm. Growth- how do we manage growth? That is what you are speaking to about right? Kanner: Uh-huh. Shields: There is room for movement and disagreement and understanding and actually shifting and changing. At the personal value level very few of us can change very much. All my point is there are very few personal value issues to come to the table of a city council. You go to the county government and there are a few more because they are heavily involved in human services area and there are some other things there. If you go to the state level and our current legislators have made sure that we debate a lot of personal value issues from their perspective. But that is my point This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 25 Steve and you don't have to agree with me. But do you understand what I am saying? Political values, yeah. Personal values there is not much. What I see is this- if we take every issue, most of the issues, and we try to find a way to make them personal value issues, it is not going to lead to a very effective council. That is my point. Pfab: When you say personal do you mean personal for us or personal for the community- personal values? Shields: I am talking about for you. Pfab: So in other words ifI support a certain issue and I am the only one let's say that supports that I am- what you are saying is very seldom does that ever come up that it is just me against everyone else because I support a particular thing? Shields: No, I am talking about- Pfab: I am having some difficulty with what are meaning. Shields: I am trying- look- Pfab: That is what I am still trying to figure out. Shields: I don't want to belabor- the point is this, when we have personal value issues it is almost impossible to come to agreement. Okay? Personal value conflicts. It is almost impossible to resolve those. Excuse me, somebody opened up a sentence to me and said "nigger". I am done talking to them. There is nothing more that I can ever talk to them about. I will not any longer engage in dialog with them. I am done. Period. Because they have walked into a personal value area that I cannot any longer work with them. Do you understand that? That is what I am saying. If we take the issues that come before you and personalize them in our value structure in that way we are not going to be able to be very effective- fight or wrong. Because now we have got into a realm that we cannot interchange anymore. That is my whole point. Does that make sense to you Irvin? Pfab: No, but that is all fight. I will discuss that in private time. Kanner: It doesn't quite make sense to me so maybe if you can just mark that these are supposedly- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 26 Shields: Well, on the level of not getting personal with other members of the council you can deal with that. On the level that you have to move from one issue to the other do you accept that? Pfab: Yeah. Shields: That you don't carry over from one issue to another. That you sit here as you look at another issue coming on and you say Mike and Ross voted against me on this one- the heck with what the content is I am going to vote against them the next time. You would agree that those are not good behaviors? You don't have a scorecard in that way. That is part of also taking it personally. Does that make sense council? Steve? Kanner: So-so. Shields: You don't get that one? I mean, I worked with a council and I remember the council literally would have voted 5-4 whether the lights were on. Kanner: Well I guess I am thinking about how people- Shields: I am not making that up. Kanner: I guess I think the perception is taking it personal there is some sort of verbal or backlash but there is also a non-verbal communications and that should be emphasized. So it happens in many different ways that I see among our council. People doing non-verbal direct and indirect taking it personally. So it should be out on the table that that happens in many different ways and that it is happening taking personal. Shields: Yep. And we want to get to how we need to change that. And we will get there. But consensus leadership and I think what Ernie is saying is that once we made a decision that we try to support that decision. I think this is tougher in some instances for many councils. I will share this that most effective cities that I have seen over the years can be able to achieve consensus leadership on the big issues. You can't do it on everything. It is not going to happen. You know, it is not going to happen on everything. But on the big issues most of the time effective cities are able to get to this point. But this does not imply unanimity. As Ross described it, you know, I may have voted against it but what doesn't happen is that we vote 5-2 on an issue and then two of you are out at 6 am the next morning trying to work against what the council has decided. That is not consensus leadership. Is that what you are getting at Ernie? Lehman: I think that is a huge point. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 27 Shields: Does that make sense? Kanner: It makes sense but I don't agree with it. Shields: Go ahead. Kanner: I think it is good to try to do social change in many different areas. And you try to do it with a vote and like it has been said, you vote, you get it over with but you work in other ways and you try to rally people to do all of the things in a non violent social change to change things. And I think the term consensus is a bad term to use. We don't use consensus here. If we wanted to we would have to work many, many days and weeks- Shields: True enough. Kanner: -to get to consensus in the formal sense. There is the whole way of doing consensus that a lot of people aren't aware of. So I object to the word consensus. We are not doing consensus- we are doing majority rules. And I accept that and I also accept that there are a lot of different ways to try to change things that are in society. And I will try to explore all of those avenues in a non-violent fashion. Shields: I agree with you on the word consensus because it does imply timing. But I was using it the way you were talking about it when I said most cities that are effective are able to do this on the big issues. And over a long period of time they are able to develop consensus. But I want to get to what Ernie did say and that is a shared sense of leadership. If we get it done and we tend to support where the group is trying to go for the most part. Other things that would or characteristics and traits do you think of an effective city councils? What are some others? I also want to suggest that we have got some different perspective on both of these. Some other things that tend to be there, do you think, that allow us to get to these outcomes that have to be in place for councils to be effective? Pfab: I would just like to make a comment on what Connie said and that in support of it- and that is if you are not prepared and you ask questions and I think somebody used the word grandstanding- I believe it was Connie- but the point is you- time is one of the few commodities that none of us can make any more up. We can never gain any more time. So if some body here wastes our time it is hard to forgive them and it makes it- that puts sand in the gears of making an effective thing work. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 28 Shields: And that was what was said here in terms of that consideration of time and other people's time and the group's time. -Ability to sort out input to make informed decisions O'Donnell: I think an important thing that should be there is how easily you are influenced. Because many times on issues our phones ring off the wall and certain groups have a tendency to put 20 people in the council and hammer you and I've actually seen council people wilt on that. And you have- I think it is really important to do your homework, talk to the people you need to talk to, and make your decision. Make an informed decision. Don't make the decision lightly. I think you can be influenced and I think if you are easily influenced you are not as effective. Shields: Yeah, I think we are in an area here where you are going to see a lot of different personal styles. As in any group that I ever worked with and different ways to approach it. But I think that part of what I am hearing you say that I will repeat from other councils and other council members and Mayors that I have worked with over time is if all you are here to do is in some of these towns to listen to the (can't hear) down at the coffee shop- is that really council leadership? And that is part of what you are saying if that were the case. On the other side of this though, I mean, this is a big gray area because the other side of it is part of your job as a council is to take input from various groups in the community and to really try to sort that out. Because most certainly their perception, their points of view, are part of what you are here to represent. So you agree it is at least gray? O'Donnell: I agree. Shields: But I think where the point is that we are making is an informed decision that takes in input but also other information and other sources of information. Right? Does that make sense to you guys? -Use of other agendas Wilburn: I think also knowing when and knowing how to tap into other arenas to get your message out. If you are trying to do some type of education, you are trying to get some type of change, I mean, do you do it at the council meetings in an extended fashion or do you go on one of the public access TV shows and be a guest and make your- appeal your spiel there? Or do you try and contact other types of media or do you work the- what do you call them- do you work the rotary optimist, the service club network to be This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 29 a guest and give your opinion to try and do education or (can't hear) change that way? This relates to I guess efficiency of our meetings. Shields: Sure. Wilburn: IfI want to go on a campaign to get young people involved do I selectively use my council time at our meetings and then go out and work those other arenas? Knowing how and when to do that. -Perception of conflict of interest -Involvement in pending issues -Participating in boards and commissions -Openness O'Donnell: I think also you have to avoid the perception of the public thinking that you have a conflict of interest. We get many calls saying how could you do this when you have a vote on it? And it is a conflict of interest and you have to avoid any appearance of that conflict of interest. Champion: What do you mean by that? O'Donnell: Well, take First Avenue for example. We are going to vote on that yet we had members, and I don't think it was wrong, but it is the appearance and the perception we had members that were out soliciting signatures. And we got several calls- or I got several calls- that said how can that not be a conflict of interest? And you know because you are an elected official does not make you- does not mean that you are not a citizen with an opinion. But that I think the appearance of the conflict of interest there was very real. That is how it is perceived in the community. Shields: That is tough. That one is true. I am not sure I get it. I want you all to get it. By the way, it doesn't matter if I get it. Wilburn: In my mind that is more of a personal choice. If you have got a personal ethic that you can defend or not defend. For example, if I am working on- maybe this is a little bit more distant removed from that specific example- but if I am working on someone's campaign for county or state and I allow my name to be on that person's campaign committee that type of thing maybe in some people's mind that may not be that close but I can- I think that is more of a personal thing to decide. First Avenue, library, these different types of issues. For example with the library I am talking to people and trying to support that. Now, I am willing to do it a little bit more actively now because it is not under my direct vote now. But that is my personal ethic that I have chosen to do. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 30 O'Donnell: Tim, you know- again you are taking this personally. But what I am saying is the public perception. And that is- when you get calls and letters and people are saying- people are getting petitions and they are going to vote on it, it is how it is perceived publicly. Whether I think it is fight or wrong- I personally do not think it was wrong unless you were doing it in like a public facility or something. Then it is wrong. Wilbum: And so you shared your personal ethic about that. For example, with the First Avenue thing I had a couple of people asking me about Irvin doing it and I said you will have to call Irvin and ask him. I am not doing it for this reason. So I think- Champion: Do you think (can't hear) were selective about that too? If it is us being involved- like I tend to be really involved in the library issue and maybe I didn't like Irvin out collecting signatures cause I like First Avenue built. And I am sure when there is something that you want you talk to citizens about it. Maybe not on the level on getting a petition but I bet you talk to citizens about it. O'Donnell: I am talking perception. I am talking community perception. It is how it is perceived. I- you know, we already decided on the Englert Theater so I absolutely think there is nothing wrong with involvement. Letunan: Or the library. O'Donnell: Or the library. I mean, there is absolutely nothing wrong but when there is something pending and the perception is there that we have not blessed or whatever it is- the perception is what I think we have to be careful of in the community. That is my opinion. Vanderhoef: But what is the community standard? O'Donnell: What is that? Vanderhoef: I think what you talking about is the community standard for councilors. And whether we accept that standard or not is individual. O'Donnell: Whether you accept it personally Dee. You know? Vanderhoef: But does our community expect us to stay non-political on issues that we have a divided council? O'Donnell: That is a very good question. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 31 Vanderhoef: I don't know that answer either. I am just throwing that out there. That is there the perception in the community that it is either right or wrong- I don't know- for us to manage something outside of the council? O'Donnell: Answer that question. You just asked a question. Are you able to answer that? Vanderhoef: No. I am not. O'Donnell: Is there the perception out there? Vanderhoef: I suspect that they don't think we should. That is where the questions come. O'Donnell: Okay, then never mind. Wilburn: And in my mind something like this where if people, if the public does feel you know Ross you really shouldn't be doing this that is something for them to make a note of next election. Lehman: That is when we get our review. In election. Wilburn: That is when we get our review. Because if it is something that I think- I mean, we also have an attorney that we can go to for an opinion about it and then it is up for us to either work with that opinion to accept it or not. And so that gives you the ability to say, you know, I did get an opinion from our city attorney. The city attorney' s and mine was this was not a direct conflict of interest. You may feel that there is still something wrong about this but I am choosing to do this because I think it is okay to do. And then, again, three years or two years from now-. Shields: This is an interesting one. I think I have heard from several of you on this but I want to hear from all of you on this one because I think we have run into something that you are really feeling that is real for you right now. I know a conflict of interest is the best description of this but let's continue this because gteve we haven't heard from you on this- and Irvin. O'Donnell: Make it very clear to him I am talking the appearance of conflict of interest. And when you get a call- and just to do a poll- how many people, how many of the council people heard about councilors in (Can't hear) for First Avenue? Pfab: Do I tell you or just in the public? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 32 O'Donnell: Yes or no answers. Pfab: But is somebody contacted the person personally? O'Donnell: Yeah. Okay, then that is five or six of us. So then what I am saying is the appearance of conflict of interest is in the community. Wilbum: Is this more related to our conduct related to different issues rather than a conflict of interest? Is that a better term? O'Donnell: I am just saying that I think we have to be very careful to avoid the perception of conflict of interest. Champion: Ross, (can't hear) O'Donnell: And that establishes credibility. Champion: What did you say? Wilbum: I am just saying is the bigger issue here just how we conduct ourselves related to whatever issue? Lehman: I think that is the bigger issue. Wilburn: Is that the bigger issue? Lehman: But I think regarding First Avenue I had a couple of people call me and I think they made one very good point. I think council's behavior outside of council directly affects the entire council. I had an attorney tell me that if a councilperson asks them to sign a petition and in this case it was First Avenue, in some respects they felt almost obligated to sign it because they may want to come back to that councilperson later in their term and want to influence them on some issue and here I have told you I don't like your petition and I won't sign it. Now I feel that I have alienated you so that when my turn comes up and I want no parking on my street you won't tell me but you are going to think you didn't sign my petition and I am not going to help you. So you put the citizen in a very, very awkward position when a councilperson asks them to support something that is before the council that is going to be acted on. And they felt that it was inappropriate to ask for- for council people to ask citizens because of the citizen' s perception that when one of my issues come along if I don't sign this I am not going to be in as good of graces with that councilperson. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 33 Pfab: That is extreme (can't hear). And we already voted on it. And the public came forth unbeknownst to me that they were starting a ballot petition so I said well, I am for getting the public more involved. So let's get it on the ballot and let's have a vote on it. Champion: We had voted on it. You are right. We had already voted on it. Pfab: Right, but the public says no, we are not satisfied and I said fine, I am for getting people involved in the political activity. And that was why I supported it. I said I don't- whatever happens happens. Shields: And I don't think those points of view are being really- I think we are talking about an active involvement in generating those signatures. Right? Pfab: Right. I went around with the thing and I got them. I said, here- sign it up so we can get it. Shields: Let me see if we can get clear on this because this is kind of an important one I think. It is that if you were of that mind and Mike were of that mind and as people talked to him Mike as a council member would say you guys ought to really get organized. You ought to get an initiative going. Why don't you do that. Because I tend to agree with your point of view. At that point are we okay? At that point are we well within the bounds of council leadership roles? We are still risking something quite honestly. But are we still within the bounds? But I am heating you say when you get to the point of asking people to sign and- Lehman: I think that is inappropriate. Shields: -actually physically and proactively participating in that then maybe we have crossed the line? That is what some of you are saying? Champion: And I think that is valid because I know everybody knows that I am incredibly in favor of the Englert Theater renovation and getting the city involved. I purposely stayed away from the meetings of that group although I would loved to have been there. Because I felt that it would be a conflict of interest. Wilburn: Up until the point that we voted on it? Lehman: We have voted on it now so I think there is no problem with it. Kanner: Absolutely not. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 34 Vanderhoef: Connie, you are hitting on something that branches out into another concern that I personally have. And that is about just attendance at a lot of things, not just the Englert Theater where there might be money involved. That- but attendance at lots of other whether they be neighborhood meetings or commission meetings and things that we get reports on anyway and whether there is a perception in the community that if one councilor shows then all of the councilors should be there. And if that councilor speaks up in that meeting are they speaking for themselves or are they speaking for the council? And how they are being perceived as they attend that. In other words, for what reason are they there? Lehman: Well, I think this brings up a whole issue. When you are acting outside of a council meeting what does your behavior really indicate? For example, personally I have no problem with any councilperson going to any board or commission member they want- or meeting- that they want to go to. Obviously they have every right and I have been to P&Z meetings just to hear a discussion on controversial issues. I am not sure it is appropriate for council people to participate in discussions at boards and commissions. I mean, these are the folks that we appoint and we get their reports and we act on their recommendations. And I think it is probably not appropriate to participate in those meetings. But I do think it is perfectly appropriate to go to those meetings and at least hear what is going on. I think it is intimidating to the various boards and commissions that we appoint if we try to influence their decisions by speaking at their meetings. Vanderhoef: Yep. I agree. Pfab: Okay. I am glad there is a distinction between attending and observing and participating. Letunan: Oh, yeah. Pfab: Because I look at attending and this is- whenever I can I try to get to as many of them as I can. I don't participate in them and generally if I get a chance I can ask (can't hear) just to observe. But it is- we talked about preparedness. That is one way you get prepared. Because until you understand the reality that these commissions live in- what their real world is- and you look at their report then you can see the report looks pretty simple. But when you watch them struggle for hours over a different thing and then this is what they decide you add a lot more wind to that. Shields: We have got a couple of things out here I think are really worth pursuing and unpacking a little bit. We may need to talk a little- I just want to make sure we have kind of defined it. We are basically saying one of the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 35 characteristics of an effective council is we avoid this perception of conflict of interest. We have used that in a legal way but also in the sense of an outside interest that may be seen as inappropriate to the council behavior. I have a pretty good definition of what that might be. In part, what I am hearing you say- some of you say- is that sitting here means you give up some part of your role as citizens. In order to maintain a public perception that things are on the up and up and things- Lehman: In order to maintain the integrity of the council and in respect for the fellow members of the council you are right- you do give up some of the things that ordinary citizens should be able to do. If you are going to be effective in this room. Shields: That is- I think we have at least clarified it. Whether we totally all agree with that or not or where the boundaries are. Pfab: So then that means- I think I question what Ernie is saying in the sense that then you can never speak in public if you are- unless it is in council. Shields: I don't think that is what is being said. I think- and I- Pfab: Does that limit what you can say in public? Shields: I want to come back to that part because I think this group can't determine that. You individually have to determine- what we are saying is what is the perception of the council? And that is what matters. There is another thing at stake here. I will be clear with you. Let's get to it. It is relationship. That maybe we have this perception issue in the community but some of the kind of behavior we are talking about does risk the relationships within the group. There is no question about that. That is- 25 years of watching can tell you that. And you may make the judgement that that is worth it. I don't know. But go ahead Mike. O'Donnell: No, I am done. Shields: Does that make sense to you? O'Donnell: No. Shields: Go ahead. O'Donnell: My point is you have just heard most of us have commented on this and we can't reach a consensus here or a majority here. We all have a different opinion on this and we all sit here and read the issues and we are This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 36 well informed on it. So when you get out into the community and you read something in the Gazette or the Press Citizen, then you have no idea- I mean, we can ask the questions of the staff people and have it answered and it is clear but if you are out in the community and you don't have this available to you when you see that conflict of interest out there you look at it much differently than we do. And that is my point. We are supposed to be the informed body. We read it, we vote on it. But if we have people out there saying we have got this going on and then we are going to vote on it for November, the more influences in the community than others that is the perception of conflict of interest. That was my only point. And from our comments here, we have not reached any majofity feeling on it. So put yourself in the community's position. And that was my point. Shields: I think we are fairly close to getting some understanding here about number one what is at risk? Perception, but also what I am suggesting- the internal workings of the group. But it isn't a matter- I don't think you can draw an absolute line and I think that is what we struggle with. Some things are appropriate. You have already voted on Englert. Connie Champion can go carry the flag all over town now. Right? The Englert flag. O'Donnell: No problem. Shields: We don't have a problem with that. While it was still being discussed as an issue that is going to come before the council if we follow this line of reasoning, some of you believe fairly strongly it would be inappropriate for Connie to be carrying that flag and organizing people in such a way to bring pressure on the council. Is that fight? Is this getting it clearer? Lehman: I think that is accurate. Champion: I felt that way. Shields: I want to hear each of you respond to that because I think what Mike is saying is we don't- I am not sure that we have heard from everybody about where they are at on this. Pfab: I can speak from this one point- the council had already voted. If that was- if that is the point and they voted it and said we are going to do it. And the public was saying we don't want to do that so I am- at what point does it get to be if you say if we are going to vote on it? We already voted on it. Now it is up to the citizens to speak and they were to speak whether they would initiate a petition to get it on the ballot. And my point was let's get it on the ballot. The same way with the library. You know, the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 37 library had all kinds of problems and maybe I agree and maybe I don't agree with a particular plan that is going to be there but that is for the public to decide. Lehman: I think the point Irvin is that the public certainly has the fight to petition the council for example on First Avenue. They have every fight and in many respects I think it was a great idea and I think it is a great idea to have the public speak. When a councilperson solicits- I have several problems with asking citizens to sign petitions as a councilperson. First of all, you are putting them in a very uncomfortable position. It is difficult to say no to a councilperson because you don't know what will happen down the line. So they by saying no- not with you Irvin, you are a great guy but you are putting them in an uncomfortable position. You are also taking a position against your own council. And that is the part that I really object to. Encourage those people, support those people, tell them to go out and get all the signatures in the world and that is wonderful. But you are working against your own council and what you voted for. That is the problem I think and the perception in the community is you have a council that doesn't support- and you don't have to support the decision of the council and go out and wave the flag for it- but to go out and individually try to undermine the decision of their own council. They can certainly do it politically with groups but to do it personally interferes with the ability of that council to operate. Pfab: Okay, I guess the other point- maybe this is a very interesting one. This problem has been bugging the community for what- 20 years? Lehman: 30. Pfab: Thirty years. And it is not solved yet. So, my point was before we voted or while this is in the process in front of the public and in front of the council I suggested that we sit down and try to do something like this with the different sides. One side says hell no! Lehman: Irvin, we are getting into (can't hear) Shields: We don't want to get off into a different issue. Pfab: So then at that point then you try- and that was my point. Let's get together and if the only way you are going to get together is vote on it then let's do it. Shields: Generally speaking around this kind of discussion can we recognize this as a team as a group that some of our behaviors which might be typical as a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 38 citizen that we at least have to look at them through the eyes of now sitting on the council? Not precluding, not making I don't know that we can judge in advance and list all of the things that you should do and shouldn't do because its going to be situational. But that you at least have a responsibility as a council member to look at your own behavior in terms of what would be the perception as a council member not just as a citizen. Does that make sense to all of you? Wilbum: In other words, take a minute to think before I do this what are some of the ramifications? Am I willing to put that on the line and live with that? Shields: Yeah. Kanner: And again, I think it gets back in my mind to a philosophy of why you are on council. I think that my constituents and I believe probably a large percentage of the 65,000 people that make up Iowa City feel that there is other conflicts of interest. There is an old boys old girls kind of network. So I had a lot of people talk to me about council member' s conflict of interest and the economic class they are in and who they associate and who they are networking in. So, for my philosophy leadership is defined differently than obviously other things. Leadership is going out and is not just voting on an issue after getting some information and debating it. But it is also a matter of working to empower groups and working with groups and implementing things for social change in a progressive manner. So there is a different definition of leadership and I don't know if that is going to be resolved but I think it is a very valid position for us. I think we have a sophisticated city citizenry. And I think they can distinguish these things. And I think the thing they are more concerned about is the percentage- the large percentage of people that I deal with is this old boys network. And that is the conflict of interest that I think we have to be concerned with. People have their certain class and they are dealing with certain people and back room deals are being made. So that is the concern. To me conflict of interest- it is more important that we lay our cards on the table and everyone is up front. And one of the things the state legislature- we had a report recently that our state legislature is 45th in terms of reporting (changed tapes) there was a report in the paper recently. I think if we really wanted to if we wanted to talk about conflict of interest we could say let's have the city council members do the same kind of reporting that other progressive states are doing or federal government is doing. If you are so concerned about following procedure and perception then let' s go farther and let' s have those kind of economic reporting so people know exactly where you are coming from. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 39 Lehman: You made a comment "back room deals"- was that your comment or are you referring to what somebody else thinks? Kanner: That is what I have heard many times. Lehman: That is not your words? That is somebody else's words? Kanner: Uh-huh. Lehman: Okay. Kanner: That there are back room deals. Has anyone else ever heard that? Lehman: No, no- Kanner: I have heard that. Lehman: But being on the council I would think that you know better than that. Kanner: Know better than what? Lehman: That there are no back room deals in this community. Kanner: How do I know that? Lehman: You are on the council. O'Donnell: You follow the process. I mean, the process- you know how the votes arrive and the discussion that is- Kanner: No, I don't know sometimes. The Englert decision- we didn't know where it was coming from the original proposal until about a month or so into the procedure. Champion: Well that means there is no back room deals if none of us knew it was coming. Kanner: Some do. And there is built up a public perception of what is the status quo? So I think that is something that we have to deal with. And that is why it is important for everybody to be involved as much as possible and to lay more things on the table. So I agree with you about conflict of interest. It is important and I think there is many things that should be put out there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 40 Champion: Can we have a potty break? Shields: Yeah, I want us to do that. Can we keep it 7 or 8 minutes? Lehman: Yeah. Shields: Okay, thanks. Pfab: Is that an order? And do we have to enjoy ourselves? Shields: No, you can feel great remorse if you want to. -"We" Shields: The point is this because I am going to say something that I want you to understand that I come from that same ilk. It takes 'T' to get here. No one of you gets here without feeling- when we went around very appropriately you said 'T' have something to give. 'T' have something to bring. Right? And it takes an ego, as I always joked about it. And talking about me too. It takes an ego to put yourself in this position to be here. That is what it takes to get here. Once you are here this is all there is. In the formal sense. In the formal sense 'T' still continues to contribute. But no one of you has any power except as a "we". Any formal power. Now, the Mayor has a few powers under this form of government that are given to him. Correct Emie? Lehman: Not really, but. Shields: There are just (can't hear). Several talking. Kanner: You can call a state of emergency. Lehman: People talk to me more than they talk to someone else but as far as more power I don't have any more power. Shields: State of emergency but in most all of the powers in this forum require council consent. Lehman: Absolutely. Shields: Okay, but do you understand my point? It is that it is only a "we" So I mean, this gets to this setting where we are talking about I am out at a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 41 meeting- none of you can say I speak for the council. You go to meet with staff- second, third level, fourth level of staff or the city manager and you walk in and you say "I want this". No, it doesn't work. If it is within policy and it is normal routine sure. Follow me? And I think this was implied. I think you guys were talking about this more in this public setting that if you were to stand up and say in a commission meeting "here is what I think you ought to do and this is what the council believes". That is way out of line. That is absolute. That is inappropriate. That cannot be done. Does that make sense to you all? Steve? Kanner: Can you say the last line again? Shields: You cannot represent the council outside of this table when you are together. The council- you can all say they voted on this and you can call them anything you want but you cannot say that you represent the council's point of view as an individual. That all makes sense. Everybody has got that part. Now, why- that is why some of these other issues get difficult. I believe this is (can't hear). Because when you go to a commission meeting and you stand up and are participating as a council member the perception, Ernie that you were speaking to, is- Lehman: You are a councilperson and to them you represent council. Even though you may stand there and say I am speaking- we had a person at a council meeting say on an issue I am so and so, I am a member of this commission, and then spoke to an issue personally. Inappropriate. Shields: That part we understand. Kanner: I understand what he is saying if you are asking about agreement. Shields: Do you believe you have the right to go out and represent the council? Kanner: Not to represent the council but that is not what Ernie said. Ernie said it is inappropriate even if you put a disclaimer that you are not representing the council. Shields: Okay, well I think that is an important element. Kanncr: I think it is appropriate to speak as an individual and put a disclaimer. Maybe it has to be even stronger that one doesn't represent city council. Wilbum: Is it implied- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 42 Lehman: You inherently represent the council when you speak to a board that you appoint and you speak to that board inherently you represent that council regardless of your disclaimer. Kanner: I agree- there is some inherentness in everything we do and that is in any kind of networking or whatever we do. And I think I am being told limit what is what is said up here- you are limited in how much interaction with staff one can have. Limit interaction with the committees and commissions. I am saying that is limiting everything just about unless you are already in the majority. And so it is hard to get information to get information and try to get information and try to get other ideas out. Lehman: Steve, we all have the same limits that you do. You know, a report from a board or commission comes to the council and ultimately we then participate in discussing what they finally decided. We did not participate in them coming to their conclusion. I don't think we should because we appointed them. Kanner: Well we respectfully disagree on that. O'Donnell: There is a difference between going out and again the perception is very strong of trying to influence a body. And that is the difference. And I think that is what we have to be very careful not to do. Champion: Steve said something else that really bothered me. He said- Kanner: Before you go on, I, Connie- I will have to move over to see you. Champion: I am sorry, I will move forward. You know, you mentioned something about availability of staff if you are not in the majority. I think most of the time I am in the majority but not always. But I try to get as little information of staff as possible because I want my decisions to be mine and not theirs. So I think I can count on my hand in the 2 ½ years I have been on council the number of times that I have called staff. I try to get my information other ways because I really feel that my decision needs to be independent of- I am sorry Steve- of you. Atkins: No apology necessary. Champion: I don't want to be Steve's mirror. Now, we may agree on a lot of things but-. So when you say that there is a difference in availability of staff I think there is a- I think the issue is there is a difference in how we want to use staff. Whereas I tend to ask them questions at a meeting if I have a question about something and not on my own where I am the only one This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 43 hearing their response. So, you know, your statement- that statement really bothers me because you make me feel as another council member that there is somebody else here who is privileged to staff and you are not. That was a very personal statement you made and I think it really bothers me. Kanner: Okay, I will explain more of what I meant Connie. That there is certainly access to staff by all of the council and it was explained to us to try to set the limits and so I have tried- to a certain sense perhaps I have gone over the bounds sometimes. So I am not going to argue the issue of whether or not I should be talking to staff to get (can't hear). But the point I was making is that if there is any- if you want- if one wants to make substantial change in council policy and one wants research that you can get that in many different ways. You can do that on your own or one other way is you can ask the staff to do that. But, we have decided or some past council has decided that you informally need four members to ask the staff to make a substantial investment. So, if you are in a minority position and you are trying to change things and you having staff, that kind of staff input would be helpful- it is very hard then to make change. So you don't have that access that majority has to requesting some information. So things tend to stay the same- the status quo. And that is the way that the majority system works. I would say we might want to tinker with that a bit and that perhaps it takes a lower threshold to request staff information. For instance, a minority request for information to enact change. Champion: That is not what you said before though. But I see what you are saying. Kanner: I mean it in that sense of getting staff access. Lehman: Let me just make one comment Steve because I think that- and I hear what you are saying. The way you get four council people to agree to look at something is visit with the other council people. It isn't popping something out on the table at a work session or whatever without ever having done any background work with other council people. I can give you one example that- two examples- one of which we went through in about 30 seconds- local option income tax. No groundwork done with anybody on the council other than you had an interest in looking at. No one else did, no one lobbied anybody, there was no interest [and] it went boom off the table. The second one I can think of is-just let me finish- you have some interest in water rates. There are not four people on this council who want to sit down and redo water rates. I think that we felt- some of us, I did- you need to know along with those other folks who worry about water rates that we should go through that and explain why have them the way they are. So, the four person rule is not a bad rule. But This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 44 I do think it is incumbent upon a councilperson who wants to discuss something to at least garner some support from other council people to give the four folks who want to look at it. Even if they are not interested. Steven, I disagree with you but I am willing to look at it and I will be one of the four that are going to do it. But that is where the "we" comes in. I want to look at our policy for horse parks. Now, nobody wants to do that. But maybe if I talk to a few people before the meeting I can get three other people who will say "well, we think it is a bad idea but we will go along with it". We did that on dog parks. There really weren't four strong votes at all to look at it but a couple said '"well, okay we will do it". But I think that is the "we" and it is not the 'T'. Champion: We did do it on the water thing, too. Lehman: Yeah. But I think there is- I think it is a good rule because I have been on councils where we had members who were driving staff nuts doing incredible amounts of work on their own where there was no interest on the part of the rest of the council. And I think in fairness to the staff and rest of the council that the "we" has got to be in there. And I think we are a council. And I think we can be a council and we can be an effective council if we work together. -Time management -Appropriate use of staff Vanderhoef: The effectiveness for me in sitting in this body and looking at what is happening within the city is that unless there is strong interest then are we being effective in using our time? Are we being effective in letting our citizens know what is out there and what we are about? Are we being effective in making requests of staff to do work that no one or very few are looking at and want? We have to let our staff do their jobs, number one. And they bend over backwards giving us as much information as they can. But going off and doing long surveys, long gathering data if there isn't interest then I think we are doing a disservice to our public, number one. And asking them to do all of this it turns around and comes back to us as being ineffective. It also comes back to us in how many staff people do we need? So that is sort of where I draw my line is- is it something that has a possibility? Is it something that I have no knowledge of therefore I need more information? And I think that is where we get like your dog park idea was that I don't know a lot about dog parks. My gut instinct says probably one way or the other but I want to hear a little bit more and let staff gather that information. But there are some things that just really you don't have the time or the energy to pursue unless there is a real consensus of the "we" that we need to talk about it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 45 Wilburn: I think that is also- I try to look at how I interact with staff in terms of degrees. If someone in the public has asked me a question and I don't know the answer or ifI just don't know about a policy or a procedure that is done then I feel fine walking to Chief Winkelhake or someone down in Accounting and saying "where can I find this information?" or "can you tell me what the policy is?". At the point where I am starting to want more information then a simple "here is where you can find the answer" or "we do this because x y z", then that is when I start looking at maybe I need to go to Steve about this before I- if it looks like it is going to be a little bit large I will go to Steve and Steve can let me know and give me guidance on you are probably going to need to talk to some of the council members to generate that support that you are talking about. Or, yeah, that is no problem, that is such and such. I will go ahead and have Terry Trueblood spit that out for you. So and then when I realize that it is something that is, you know, I am going to have to build some support then I start with council. And so I try to look at the degrees of interaction before. Because I have seen it- it is that implied "we" whenever I walk into a department. It is like Ross is here and bodies start moving and it is like, can I borrow a pencil? I mean, you know, that is just- there is an implied "we". We are council. We do collectively carry a certain amount of power so I try not to abuse that and try to recognize that there are different levels of interaction with staff that I have to have. O'Donnell: There is one word there that kind of bothers me Ross and that is power. You know, this isn't a position of power. It is a position of service. You are serving the community. You are serving the people who elected you. It is, you know, I have never looked on this as a position of power. Wilburn: And I try not to either but it is, I mean, I see it amongst some acquaintances. I see it amongst, I mean, people look at there is someone from city council and that carries something whether I like it or not or whether I feel that way or not. O'Donnell: And that backs up an earlier discussion about attending board and commission meetings. Because you are sitting there and there could be some kind of influence. Champion: I don't think it is a thing of power either but I can tell you that (can't hear) has a position of power. Shields: Absolutely. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 46 Kanner: Yeah, I do think we do have power and in different levels. We have some formal power. We have informal power. Lehman: As a group we have power. Kanner: And as individuals we have certain informal powers and that might be a biggie. Shields: You have no formal power as individuals. You have no formal power as individuals. None what so ever. Kanner: Informally I would say we have. Shields: Informally- you know, and again that is where we get into the gray area. Different places define things differently. But my first statement is absolutely true. Unless the council agrees to give Ross and delegates their power, their authority. Formally. That is the only way that any one of you has power- formal power. Clearly. I want to- I am going to give you an opinion, you know, it is a (can't hear) and I must admit but a piece ofthis- I mean, much of this is in an area where you guys figure it out and what I was trying to suggest to you that some of this what is really at stake is relationships amongst yourselves. And I think that is clear in this discussion. But the part about getting up and participating in a board and commission meeting or a committee that a council has appointed that reports to the council- that particular piece of this I think, and again I can't legally cite this, there would be some legal issues- but I can tell you from experience and looking at cities that is a dangerous area. To get up and participate. To observe, to be part of the meeting, to watch, to learn, to see what they are going through if that- that is good council work. Right? What Irvin was talking about. To get up and participate is very, very difficult and I think dangerous water. On a group that is appointed by you, created by you, reports to you. To get up and talk to the Boy Scouts fine. All we are saying there is you can't get up and say "let me tell you this is where the council is going to go in the next three years and I have all of the votes"- that is dangerous. This group would be very dangerous. But to get up in a meeting where you have appointed that group- can you see how that is dangerous folks? Lehman: Oh ycah. Shields: That does not mean to not go to observe. To not be there- you know, then be careful. But to stand up and begin to voice opinions in those meetings I think is very dangerous territory. Based on my- you know, not because I think it is right, you know, that this is the way I would make the world, I This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 47 am just telling you this the way it is looking at cities for 25 years. Does that make sense to all of you? Steve, you are looking at me like maybe it doesn't. Kanner: No, I am not going to comment on that but I just want us to get back to Ernie what you were saying. Just to correct something, I believe someone else brought up the issue of the income tax formally to put it on the agenda [and] certainly I was for that. So there was another person that did that just to correct that. It might be helpful for me if there is something that is going to be somewhat contentious that we are going to talk that we have more than the four days notice that it will be on the work session. Maybe I should have done my homework and been prepared for any minute that it is going to come but I think like most of us, or maybe it is just me, I tend to do things last minute which isn't the best trait. So if I am given more time- if I am told that we are going to be talking about this issue that I have to present arguments to perhaps sway people or try to get that majority at our work session to be given more than four days which we were told Thursday it is going to be on the agenda for Monday night. So that might be helpful. Also I think we have to discuss the decision making process between informal and formal sessions. And we have wrestled with it in a certain way and you have said we'll hold off certain discussions until Tuesday but there are decisions being made and sometimes it is not clear-cut. One thing that might be helpful if we take a clear vote on each of the issues at the informal meetings where we are making decisions. For instance, we did I thought make a decision not to have this event here in the city chambers. And that was a decision that was made. And then because of a minority pushing we decided not to have it. So then another compromise was offered to have it out at the airport. And I sense that there was a majority that wanted that and then that was put aside- that decision. So I think those kinds of things happen and I think we need to in my mind be better at making the decisions and be clear about it. Champion: We discussed it all, remember, and the airport would be a great place for this part of the meeting but because this afternoon we are going to (can't hear) staff (can't hear) can't ask staff to go all the way out there. And you know, I think that is the reason as a group it was more of a consensus thing then an actual vote. That it would be better to have it here so that this afternoon we would have the availability of staff and any other information that we might need where if we are going to do this in two different days then fight, maybe the airport would have been a great place to do this first part. But it would not have been a good place to do this afternoon's. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 48 Shields: I want to move you on and what I captured out of that is that some look at the timeline of discussions and how they come. Keep that one because that might be in our next list of things that we are going to focus on and then also the whole issue of decision making. I want to get- are there other things that you think are key elements, key behaviors, key traits of effective councils that would allow them to be effective? Lehman: Just circle the word "we". That is the most important thing you have written down this morning. Shields: That is a big one. -Collaborative approach -Involvement and proactive Kanner: Collaboratives. Shields: A collaborative approach? Kanner: And really involving people that have traditionally been out of the power loop. Being proactive in getting those types of people with community, city- community members, city staff, city council. Shields: Collaborative approach- getting involvement. Being proactive in approaching that is an element of an effective council. What about a trait? A method a strategy? Good. Any others that you see that really are key elements of being effective as a council that lead to that effective outcome? Any others real quick? And try to think- one is and I have actually- this is an area that you all need to look at. FLIP CHART #5 -AGREE TO BASIC RULES OF THE GAME -Processes -Methods -Roles Shields: I want to share this with you. And I think there is some differences on this one. Any team, any decision making group, any folks charged with the kinds of responsibilities that you have to be most effective need to reach some basic agreement about the rules of the game. And in this we are talking about processes, you know, methods we interact. Rules, just to give you the short version. The basic rules of the game. That doesn't mean that the rules are fixed in concrete. They can change. And every two years in most cities I work with we tweak or shift or change some of This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 49 those rules of the game. But when I talked about this, you know, obviously if we have two folks or one person that is operating under one set of rules and then we have two folks over here operating under another set of rules and then we have somebody else who doesn't even know what the rest of them are doing- follow me? It is pretty simple. Pretty straight forward. But it is big. Quite frankly, there is some debate in this group and some very different perceptions of this very concept. What are and what should be the basic rules of the game. And that is what has been going on in some of this interaction and some of this discussion between you and amongst you. Again, this issue of effectiveness- it is not making it right. If we are not concerned about the overall effectiveness of the council- if that is not our prime concern none of this matters. Right? That is the only issue I have before you. It is not about this is the right thing to do and there is some element of that. One other piece that comes up a lot and I will just throw this up here and then I want to get us into the assessment element. Almost all councils that I have worked with for years and there is no way to eliminate this altogether- I wish there were but there isn't- but there is a, in a conscious attempt to reduce surprises between staff and council but most importantly amongst council members. Does that make sense to you all? Lehman: Oh yeah. -Surprises Shields: I don't want to- I don't have to speak to the choir on this one I hope. If what we do is bring surprises to the group what happens? You know, if we use that as a strategy fairly consistently. What do you think happens? Lehman: You get rid of the "we" real quick. Shields: Yeah. You break down trust. You know, whether you see yourself as a "we" or not there becomes distrust in that group. So it is a matter, and I think it was Steve that said earlier that, you know, let's lay our cards on the table. That is what I talking about. You know, we don't use surprise as a method in (can't hear) we actually strive to make sure that we don't have surprises. Anything else we would add to this list? Because now this is going to be part of our measuring- part of how we are going to measure ourselves. If you keep doing this it is old habit. ~ome folks think I sleep with a flip chart. I don't. It is under the bed. Kanner: Oh, that sticks to it? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 50 Shields: Yeah. Okay, I think with the time we have and I want to use it most effectively. One of the techniques I want to use right now is going to get to this. I want each one of you to either think or write down- it is up to you, that is your choice- three things you think this council needs to- we are still in this realm of teamwork, not substantive issues. Not strategic issues. Three things out of all of this discussion just because we have thrown it up here doesn't mean that we have dealt with it as a strategy for Improvement. Okay? And a number of you really had some very specific things I think you want to see. Three things you would like to see changed. Three changes you think this council really needs to consider. And if you have got five, fine, go ahead. But I want you to make sure you focus on the three you consider to be the most important changes this council needs to consider if you are going to be more effective. If this team is going to be more effective. If this council is going to be more effective. Pfab: (can't hear) Shields: Obviously we have a way- we have looked at some things we think that lead to effectiveness. We have some there that I think yield some ideas for change. But we are not limited to just that. I mean, there are some other specific things that we need to look at. As you have talked I have captured at least four or five ideas that I think may end up on these lists. And if you have missed them or forgotten them I will try to bring them back to you. One of those time techniques that I have developed over the years- when you are finished you can put your head down on the table in front of you. Vanderho ef: Permission for a nap? Shields: I am going to take a break on this for a second. Steve had mentioned to me that he had a couple of observations about council effectiveness that he would like to offer to you and I was starting to move quickly and I sort of skipped over that Steve. Why don't you throw them out here now in case they need to consider them? -Futurist Atkins: These are just observations I made from the discussion. These are things that are obviously not fight or wrong. You discussed conflict of interest, back room deals. I would remind you the moment someone approaches you they become their own back room deal. The very think they are criticizing about others behavior that is their behavior. So just keep that in mind. It may only represent one individual but the fact is they are This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 51 approaching you for an opinion, thought, whatever. An issue of council effectiveness from my experience council members must be futurists. Every time you make a decision what is the consequences and in many respects generationally how many times have we heard the water plant is a 100 year decision. I think being a futurist is very important to being an effective council member. Ernie, I think as Mayor whoever serves in that capacity one thing the council must remember is the Mayor approves the agenda. The when of things is often and that is a great deal of power vested in them. And that individual has been selected by you to determine often what that agenda of issues might be. And I over the years used that, Ernie knows, that I have tried to clear agenda items with him as a part of our routine process. Another point is that I heard the term constituencies- plural. I would remind you that everyone is your constituency the way you are elected. You don't have the luxury of picking and choosing. Everyone expects the same thing. Fat or thin, rich or poor. They are all the folks that select you. I would also try to remind you that I would like to believe I am somewhat a student of ethics. There are no absolutes. If the truth is debatable it is going to be very difficult to say there are absolute ethical issues. Standards change and you just need to keep- there is a dynamic process in ethical issues and what is unethical for me may be quite ethical for you. It doesn't mean that you can, again, a right or wrong. And finally an observation I make is that you are representative democrats- small "d". And because of that you have rules that you follow because they are laid out for you. But you use the participatory democracy process small "d" extensively and there are no rules. Each of you- each person that comes to the microphone to participate makes a decision as to how they wish to see their input conducted by you. Absorbed by you, taken by you and how you go about participating. There are no rules. I don't know when you are out and about representing- again, that is back to when you are selected as a "we" and you are out and about. There are no rules for participatory democracy. That may be good. Direct democracy such as our initiative and referendum actually has some rules. You have got to have so many signatures, you have got to do it by this, you have got to do it by that. But the participatory process is often without rules. Those are observations. Kanner: Could you repeat the first one? I missed that. Atkins: I don't remember. Shields: Futurist. Kanner: Before the futurist. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 52 Atkins: Conflict of interest, futurist, representative democracy. Kanner: Conflict of interest. Atkins: Okay, conflict of interest. I would remind you that each time someone comes to you with an issue particularly if they are complaining about the other guy and how they made decisions they in themselves are conducting themselves just like the very people they are criticizing. Maybe a smaller constituency of a couple people but I think you are going to hear that with some regularity. Particularly if it is a contrary decision. -Community wide Shields: Good points. A real quick comment- community wide, I would suggest this to you again from some years- an observation, just a real quick one. That part of this- I will do it here, it is not necessarily yours. There is easy ways to talk about this. I understand about constituencies. I understand that each of you, hopefully if this is a perfectly formed council, that nearly every group in town one way or another has a voice at the table. Because of the different folks that you speak to more regularly. And I will even share this with you- I got to work with seven folks who are chamber of commerce types who all went to the same school. Even in those instances, which doesn't happen in Iowa anymore, they also have different constituencies in a certain sense. There is no question about that. And it is part of the beauty of this as we (can't hear). But this is a big concept. No one except you, collectively, has the responsibility to look at the whole picture. No one else is charged with that responsibility. All of those constituencies, all of those groups, all of those people that you talk to and interact with are not charged with this responsibility. Only you. Does that make sense to you? So, I need to believe that this group is right and I am really compatible with that group' s view. But I still have to put it in this context if I believe what I just- if I am a person that believes in this. And I may still act on what that group has told me. But I have the responsibility if you are going to be effective to use this as part of the measure. FLIP CHART #6 BIG PICTURE Shields: What is the big picture? How does all of this fit together? What is the whole community's benefit or deficit based on this? Does that make sense? Steve, I think that is that community wide thing that you are talking about. This is my way of talking about it. Yes sir? Pfab: I came to peace with myself and that was this- I felt that I had come to the idea of voting on the city council issues as kind of like a basketball This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 53 referee. No matter what decision you make there is going to be people for and against it. So you kind of have to discount that pretty heavily. My feeling is the way to look at this is 20 years from now if I look back what is the fight decision? And that is kind of where I have sorted it out so I can feel good with myself. Shields: Good. I mean, you know- (can't hear) did sort of a legacy perspective in terms of how we looked at it. FLIP CHART #7 DOING RIGHT Shields: Let me try this with you- I asked you to write some things down. Let me tell you- what do you think this group is doing fight before we start talking about change? What are we doing fight? What are some things that are going on that you think are good for this team about how we work together and what we do effectively? Steve, you got one? What do you think? Kanner: Let me think about it. Shields: Dee? Something you think this group is doing well? -Overall doing of homework Vanderho ef: I think on a whole we are doing our homework and reading the packets well. Shields: Okay, Irvin? Pfab: Are we talking about just to people sitting around the table? Shields: Yeah. Well, and you extend it to staff as well. Pfab: No, no- okay. But I was just going to say as city council in general or just here? I mean, you are talking about today? Shields: I am talking about how you work together as a council overall. What do you think you are doing fight? Because we are going to be talking about what we want to change here in a minute. I just want- Pfab: I think there is a lot of things going fight. I mean, I am sitting here trying to figure out what to complain about. Kanner: Mention one of them. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 54 Pfab: No- I said I- Kanner: One of the things that are going fight. -Moving on issues Pfab: One of the things that are going fight? We are getting a lot of stuff, a lot of issues, solved and moving on. We don't always agree but so what? Shields: Okay. Connie? -Futuristic decisions Champion: I think we are making some futuristic decisions and we may do things in kind of a hap hazard way but I think there is more logic to it then it appears. I think it is more complex than it appears. Shields: Emie? -Interaction and listening Champion: I think we talk to each other. I think basically we listen. We don't always agree but at least we are talking to each other. Shields: Okay. Mike? Something you think we are doing fight? -Consequence of votes O'Donnell: I think the majority of the group has got a fairly decent- I don't like the term futuristic, it reminds me of Star Trek or something. Lehman: You didn't like Star Trek? O'Donnell: It is a vision. You look at the consequence of your vote down the road and understand that, you know, we do need roads. We do need- we have got an economic development (can't hear) need that. We do need to grow in responsible ways to remain a viable community. But I think the majority of us are doing that very well. Shields: Ross? -Caring about the community This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 55 Wilburn: I get a sense that regardless of differences that we have on issues that people generally care about the community. Shields: Anything else that stands out for you- something that we are doing fight? Yes? -Being more sensitive Pfab: I, in the five months since I have been here, I am aware that we are taking a lot more- we are being a lot more sensitive to the general populations' interest and input. I see it growing. And I think that is good. Shields: Anything else anybody would mention? Something you think we are doing right. Steve you didn't have a comment yet. -Didn't outlaw sleeping in vehicles Kanner: Yes, caring about the community in that we voted not to outlaw sleeping in a vehicle. So I think that is a good thing that we are doing. Shields: Okay, and that is an expression- Kanner: Well, you can put it separate. Shields: Okay. Kanner: The majority I think- the majority felt that we shouldn't outlaw sleeping in vehicles. I think that was a good thing. Shields: Okay. Wilburn: I guess this is kind of a "we" thing. I get a- I've gotten a good appreciation when we have different groups that will appear in mass and I have looked across the table and got a kind of affirmation when I am on the unpopular side of the mass that people are looking like "yeah I know how it feels. I know my turn is coming again soon". Shields: So there is some empathy in the group? Wilbum: Yeah. Shields: By the way, there are only seven folks in town that really know what this is like. And so your support in essence- some of it has to come from This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 56 within this group as well. But some empathy and support inside of the group. -Empathy/Support/Sensitive to each other Lehman: Overall I think this is probably going to be as big a criticism as it is a compliment but I think council overall is very sensitive to each other. O'Donnell: Why didn't you get me coffee? Shields: Don't push it Mike. Lehman: (can't hear) Pfab: As long as you are going by Steve. FLIP CHART #8 IMPROVEMENTS Shields: Okay, it is important to me to get some sense of those things that we do feel good about and we may add to this list before we are done today. Now, we are going to take a different process right now- I want to make sure that we get these potential improvements up in front of us and then we will see how many we have got. We will see what we are going to do with them. This time I want to start with Dee and tell me one- and I am not going to ask for you to give me the solution necessarily yet- but I want to get an issue up here. If you have something that is similar speak up and we will make sure that we get them folded together effectively. What is one area that you think we need to improve Dee? 1.) Effective use of time -pursuing "single" issues Vanderhoef: Effective use of time. Shields: Give me real quick some definition. What is going on? How are we not using time? Can you give me some quick ones that help define this for everybody? Vanderho ef: Okay, when there obviously isn't interest by other members of the council on the issue to let it go and move on. Shields: Steve, give me one that you had. One area that you think needs to be improved. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 57 2.) Eye contact at table - better positioning Kanner: The dais- or we sit here better so we can see each other. I never get that eye contact with Ross that he was talking about because I can't see half of the people. So better-just better positioning of the- what do you call this thing here? O'Donnell: The chairs. Kanner: Dais. Champion: It is called what? Atkins: D-A-I-S. Champion: I have never heard of that word before. Shields: Okay, Ross. What improvement do you think the council should consider? 3.) Communication about pending issues. "Heads up" Example: changes coming on agenda in advance. Wilburn: Continue to give some type of notice or heads up if you have got- if you know that you are going to have some type of amendment or something. Like last time Steven was nice enough to type up- he had some amendments, he typed them up and rather than sitting and when the item comes struggling over words or intent and not being able to visualize them it is just helpful to kind of have it fight of you so you can look and consider it. But to continue to get some type of- when you know that you are going to make some type of change in a proposed resolution or motion that is currently in our packet, I think that is helpful. Shields: So we are saying we have some examples before where we have done it but we need to do a better of this? Wilburn: Yes. Shields: Mike? What is one area you think we need to change? 4.) Micro management visa vis boards and commissions This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 58 O'Donnell: I think we need to try not to micromanage. Rely more on the boards and commissions. We have picked them out. They are very effective. Let them do their jobs. I think we can be much more efficient if we let the boards and commissions do their jobs. Shields: Again, help me real quick. Give me an example or point out to me how this has happening, in your view. O'Donnell: For instance, the PIN grants of the neighborhoods. We had- you know, we've got a neighborhood council. We've got very effective people. We have got representatives of each neighborhood association. They came to us and we just seemed to- it was like we wanted to micromanage every penny. And I would like to move away from that. Shields: Emie, what is one you have? 5.) Improve discussions -example: more germane and relative Lehman: This may come up under effective use of time but if we would keep our comments relevant to the issues (changed tapes) how wide the street is or how long whatever has nothing to do with the issues. And if we would keep our discussions relevant. And as Mayor sometimes I have a little problem with that because I don't know whether to try to limit the discussion when we start getting off on a tangent or whether not to. I hate to try to limit people's debate but we do get into discussions sometimes that have absolutely little or nothing to do with the issue. Shields: So, improving our discussions through more germane relevance to the issue. Connie? 6.) Develop more trust - possibility of agreement Champion: I would like to see us develop more trust in each other and not necessarily for agreement but that trust that most of us are probably going to try to do the fight thing instead of council members assuming that we are all in disagreement. That probably there is more agreement there than people think. I don't know if I worded that well. I have a problem with that but I know what I am thinking. Lehman: We know what you said. Champion: Thanks. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 59 O'Donnell: Say it again. Pfab: That is a back handed compliment. Vanderhoef: And are there six different interpretations of what we heard? Shields: Actually, you know what Connie is saying I think is rather profound though. It is that we need to develop a trust so that we actually do have a possibility of agreement. Champion: Yes, and- Shields: And approach things from that point of view. Champion: And I wrote down- and I thought it was kind of dumb but I think it is important- don't underestimate that there could be agreement from the council on issues that you feel personal about and feel isolated about. I think there could be more agreement like don't assume- well, I said it. Shields: Got it. I have said to councils for years and years part of this whole thing is agreeing to disagree and it is when we talked about not talking it personally and all of the rest. The challenge for teamwork is agreeing to agree. Agreeing to agree- that we can and in some instances should. Irvin, what is one that you think we need to change? 7.) More transparent - taping of work sessions Pfab: I guess I am a broken record. I would just like to see the public more involved. Our work being more transparent. And that is why I come back to the taping or broadcasting the work sessions. I think the public has a fight to see how we come to these decisions and it doesn't appear that the formal council meetings are good ways to do that. Kanner: Yeah, I had that ditto for taping the meetings on Monday. Shields: Any others anybody has? Have we captured all three of yours as we went around or have you got some more? 8.) Move away from personal agenda- Big Pictnre O'Donnell: I had one other. Move away from your personal agenda. Understand that your voting affects the majority of Iowa City so that is who you should This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 60 represent. And we all have an agenda but you have to be an open mind and understand that your vote affects everybody and you should- Shields: Part of that big picture? O'Donnell: Yeah, don't just represent a special interest group. Look at the overall picture. Shields: Any others? Pfab: That just brings up a little anecdote somebody told me a long time ago. They said- well this is non-partisan non-political- somebody says when you sit down to dinner whoever gets to the main dish first that is a political move. Kanner: (can't hear) did say the personal is the political. And it is very true. I wanted to ditto, Ross, what he was saying and add that I actually need to be better at getting things in advance. Shields: And this gets to that surprises kind of thing and it also gets to the time management issue if we know in advance we have prepared things and it is going to make us be able to do that more effectively. Ross, do you have any others they haven't touched on? Anybody else? 9.) Effectiveness of staff -getting answers and respecting time Lehman: I don't know how the other council members use our staff but we have got- obviously we as a group have three employees. You know, the city manager, the city attorney and the city clerk. We can- Steve and that staff can be of invaluable assistance to council people before council meetings. If there are questions on the agenda for items that we use our staff judiciously- and I am not saying we camp out in their office- but whenever I have a question it has never ever bothered me to call Steve or Karen or somebody else and say, you know, item whatever on the agenda. And I do think that is part of being prepared. And I also think that it is much better to go to the folks that have the answers than it is to- for example, I can call Mike and we can talk about it but neither one of us know what we are talking about. I haven't gained a thing and neither has Mike. But there are staff people who can explain some things to us that I think will make us better council people. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 61 O'Donnell: I think you can expand on that a little bit too Ernie about staff. Staff has hours. The city closes at five- I would like to see us not come in at 4:59 and ask for a huge project. Respect their time also. Champion: Have you done that? O'Donnell: I have once. Ernie told me I could never do it again. Lehman: They asked me to leave. Pfab: (can't hear) field trip. Shields: Okay. Another one? 10.) Awareness of conduct outside of meetings. Lehman: I think that we have to be cog of how we view each other and how the community views us in the way we conduct ourselves outside council meetings. I mean, we just have to be aware that I think that we are held to a different standard of conduct than we are if we are not council folks. There are certain things that we as private citizens we would be expected to do as council people. They expect a little different, even though it may be totally legal and whatever we just are- I think we are held to a little different standard with not only each other but also from the public. Shields: Ernie what I am hearing you ask for- I mean, it is just an awareness and an awareness of the potential impacts of the conduct outside council meetings. Anything else anybody has? 11 .) Staff time schedule. Kanner: Well, along the lines of what Mike was saying, that certainly we should respect the staffs time but we might also want to look- this is more of a long range- like the county has different hours of offices and giving staff different either flex time or having different schedules because people are working the 9-5 and we might want to think about keeping certain offices open from instead of 9-5, 10-6 on certain days of the week. So that is one possibility. O'Donnell: Along with that then we don't want to call at 5:59 and ask for a huge project. It is just a matter of respecting time. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 62 Kanner: Well it is a matter of some people are working until certain hours and it is difficult- not only council but also community- so it is something that we might to look at. Shields: You see this as part of council teamwork though as well that-? Agenda Management- minority position. Kanner: Possible, yeah. And the other thing I would add is perhaps make more proposals or a proposal that would come up on Monday where there isn't allowed public input and make that on Tuesday so that there can be public debate on that. Lehman: Steve that is available on Tuesday anyway. Kanner: That is what I am saying is I am putting it out that maybe that is something that I will try to do more and then instead of having the discussion where there is not a majority on cotmcil on a work session have it where the public can have input if they would like and have it publicized in advance. That gives people time to prepare pros and cons and then it can be voted up or down pretty easily. Lehman: Are you talking about putting that on the agenda for the formal meeting? Kanner: No, proposals- like let's say we wanted a resolution to lobby the state legislature for a municipal income tax option. So instead of going on Monday and having a minority group being dissatisfied, it is 2 minutes and it is over with, it could be a formal proposal. You could make a proclamation or a resolution to put on the Tuesday agenda and if it gets a second it can be debated by the public. There is 24 hours notice, or at least 24 hours- hopefully more. And it will be, in my opinion, better for the process and then it can be voted up formally or informally. People are aware of where the council stands. If the city supports that, you know, they will vote that person in again. Eventually it- Lehman: The big problem with that is it is still going to take four people to put it on the agenda for the next night and if you can't four that want to discuss it- Kanner: I think it would probably only- and this is what I have to talk with Eleanor- but I believe probably one person can put things on the agenda. I have to look through Robert's Rules of Order to see how we put things on. It could just take a second if there is a proposal. I don't know if you need a four to three majority. So this is what I am saying, maybe that is part of This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 63 the problem of the informal work session. This might be one way to handle that. Lehman: You know, Steve, this is right- this really cuts to the quick. This is all part of the "we" and 'T'. You are saying you don't care what we want, it is what/want to be on the agenda. And I feel that if it is my idea even if the rest of you don't want it/want it put on Tuesday night to get a reaction from the public. That is what you are saying? Kanner: No, I am saying "we" as in the community. There might be a "we" in the community that would like to see us debate that. Lehman: No, no- but "we" as the council. What you are saying is that is we as the council is not interested, that I as a council person should have the ability to put it on the agenda and get the reaction from the public? Vanderhoe~ But the first part of the idea- Lehman: I mean, I think that is what you are saying isn't it? Kanner: Yeah, I am saying minority positions should be able to have debate and there are certainly rules that have been used to cut debate and there are rules to vote it down or up. But I think it is important to the process to have public debate even though they are minority positions. And so I would agree with you. Lehman: And the only way that we can do that now really is if we choose not to debate it at a work session for the lack of a majority. The only opportunity we have is either somebody from the public brings it up during public discussion or we as a member bring it up during council time. I think that is the only two ways we have of doing it right now. Vanderho ef: Right, because the "we" still carries through in the work meeting of what gets put onto our work load and onto the agenda. Shields: We have got this far on this one and it is sort of breaking processes. Lehman: Right. Shields: A little bit- but I want it- we've got this far, let's see if we can bring it to closure. Pfab: I think this might be a good time to bring up a couple of things that are a little touchy here. And one is something about calling the question. I This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 64 thought- I hear that that is an evil thing and I thought that was just a common rule of order. I mean, let's say that the Mayor sits there and he is trying to keep the meeting moving and somebody sits back and says "this discussion is over let's just get on with it and vote". And I don't think that should be threatening. I don't think it should be looked at as unusual. And then- or it is punitive. I don't think it is. I think it is just one of the procedures of running the meeting. Let's say I am having a big discussion with somebody about apparently not much- Connie sits over here and she says "this is over, let's get it done" and so she calls the question. And I think that is a great way. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I think we just should do it. And, you know, if the majority or a super majority- whatever the heck it is- if it isn't there, if it is there (can't hear). And you don't have to take it personal. I am not going to get personal. I think it is just something- and that bothers me why it is so touchy. It shouldn't be. It is just one of the ways- that is how- and we all talk about respecting each other's time. FLIP CHART #9- AGREEMENT. 1 .) Continue to use agenda management process. Shields: Any debate on that one? Pull this back because I think, you know, we have got most of this out here and we can come to somewhere where the group is on this. And I think it is fairly clear what we are asking what Steve is suggesting would be an improvement for the team, for the group. I think- I want to hear to hear everybody on this and see where we are at. And whoever wants to jump in-. Champion: What are we talking about now? Shields: We are talking about- well, I think the broad topic Connie is agenda management. How do we manage what goes on the agenda. You have some basic rules of the game that you currently use. I think I hear you that it requires a majority to place something on the agenda for your formal meeting. Right? Kanner: Not necessarily. Lehman: We kind of work by consensus. We have never ever, I guess, used the- the Mayor has never used his authority to put anything on or take it off the agenda. It has been by mutual decision either with staff folks or council folks. Technically that may not be the way it has to be but that that is the way it has been. Kanner: Ernie, there are many things that are put on without council consensus. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 65 Lehman: But it is with staff. Kanner: Yeah. Lehman: I am just saying staff or council is how stuff ends up on the agenda. Shields: All of what we are saying does get more clear then. What we are saying is that a member can get something on that agenda simply by he or she wanting it on the agenda regardless of where the rest of the group of is? Is that right? Lehman: For a work session I think that that basically- no, that is not really true. Vanderho ef: No ! Lehman: We have said that unless there is interest on the part of more than one council person it will not be a part of the work session. The only way a council person- the way we have been operating- is going to get something discussed is if they bring it up during council time which is a time we have reserved for council people. That is really the only way unless there is a consensus that wants the staff to go into whatever research it takes to put it on the agenda as an agenda item. Vanderhoef: So this works into what I have talked about effective use of our time and our staff' s time. Shields: So, where are we at? I mean, I think Steve deserves a response on this one from everybody about how you feel about this one. Champion: Well, you know, I don't think there is a public body where an individual can get something on an agenda. We would be here for 24 hours. All of us have some little specific thing that would like to take care of and we can get ten people to come and talk about it probably. And I don't think that is what democracy is all about. Democracy is a majority vote. And it evolves and it changes all of the time. But that one thing has always been there that it is the majority vote. And I think the way we do agendas may not please me all of time, it may not please Steven all the time, but it is the democratic way to do it. And unless it becomes a full time job I guess I am not willing to just put anything on the agenda. Shields: Okay, anything else? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 66 O'Donnell: It speaks to what I said about moving away from your personal agenda. The majority does rule. And, you know, bring it up and if you can get a majority to want to sit down and discuss it then by all means. But if not, let's move to another item. Lehman: I do think though that- and I think the dog park- I don't want to go picking on one particular thing- but there were a couple of folks on the council who were very much interested in pursuing a dog park. There were a couple of other council people who really weren't very interested but, yeah, I am willing to go along with it. so I think that if we have items that we want on the agenda even though they are personal items that are important to me personally, if I want them to be on the agenda I am going to have to go out and talk to some of the rest of you folks and say "look, would you please go along with me? I think we should talk about this. I know you may not support it but at least give us a cursory view". And I think the way we do it probably is going to require that we operate a little more like a team- that you do get some support for your position from some of your cohorts before you present it to the group. And if you don't it isn't going to go on the agenda. Shields: So the current method of operating can allow for some of this to occur? Lehman: Absolutely. Any time we get four people you can put anything on the agenda. Shields: And we are saying there are some- because of some mutual respect in the group and some understanding of trying to work together there might be support even where there are- for inclusion- even where there isn't support substantively? Ross, your view? Wilbum: I would agree with that and also I would just point out that there are- I had mentioned or someone had mentioned- if you feel that there are people in the community that would feel strongly about that or want council to discuss that that you can encourage them to try and get it on our agenda as well. All of the letters that we got from the Stepping Up coalition- I mean, we got bombarded with it and that led to at least a work- you know, have you been getting stuff about this? Yeah. Maybe we should put it on. Champion: That is a good example. Shields: So you think, again, there is other avenues? Wilburn: Yeah. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 67 Vanderhoef: If there is community support for an issue we will hear enough about it that it behooves us to put it on an agenda and talk about it. Shields: You know, which makes that person who was in a minority initially a genius and obviously a great leader. And that is a different way it works. Lehman: It is going to make a person who wants (can't hear) to be part of the team. Unless they are going to be a team player and part of the team and work with the rest of the team, that item is not going to get on the agenda. I think that is all part of the "we". Shields: Irvin, any other views here? Pfab: One thought just ran through here but I think it went away. And one was it take a majority to get on the council- to get on the agenda. But that doesn't mean that the majority has to approve of it. Shields: Right. Pfab: In other words, that they are willing to discuss it. because otherwise you couldn't- otherwise there would be no reason to put it on the agenda because it is already taken care of. Shields: What I am heating you say is the group- the general understanding- would be that the standard for inclusion on the agenda is lower than standard for being supportive and willing to vote on something? That is all. Pfab: And I am not aware- personally I am not aware of anything that I had any interest in that didn't get on the agenda. So I can't really speak personally. You know, I don't have a strong opinion on that. Shields: So a general agreement here- and by the way, you know it was Steve this time- to any one of you it can happen- that sometimes great ideas, you know, this is how it starts. You throw it out and people don't buy it. And then two years later it is the great idea. It could happen. But our basic agreement that I am heating you say here is to continue to use the agenda management process as you currently have it. I also think I am heating some sensitivity here as a team. And some willingness to support inclusion on an agenda even if we are not totally committed to the issue. All fight, I don't have any way of knowing how much time we have left. You know, we got into this one so I just ran with it. I don't have any way of knowing off the top of my head which ones of these are the most important. No way of knowing. I want to try to walk through them as best I can and we will see where we go. I can try to make you set This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 68 priorities on these but quite frankly they are so interrelated I think that would be tough to do to facilitate our judgement. So I am going to see where we can go with this. Effective use of time- we have talked here about pursuing single issues. Dee, you just suggested to me that what we just did on the agenda management to speak to part of this. There are other elements of this, those of you- where this was listed where we need to talk about this. Ways and some specific problems, issues and ways we may need to actually change? Or have- that we have touched on this with this other discussion? Vanderhoef: I think we have talked a little bit [and] it has come out, like Ross said, how he goes to get some additional information ahead of time so that he is more prepared in that particular issue. Shields: So on this one this is part of it as well. Okay. Any other comments on that one? 2.) Germaness Lehman: Relevancy is huge in that though. So much of the time that we spend discussing items we get so far off the topic and perhaps that is my fault more than anybody else but I let the discussion sometimes continue on things because- Eleanor is going to get me- but we get completely off the subject and that takes time. Many times I am not sure it is a productive discussion. It just happens to be ramblings and if we really are interested in efficiency and effective use of time I think we probably should be directing our comments to the item at hand. Shields: Ross, you were going to make a comment? Wilburn: I was just going to- when I look at effective use of time I think that is part of it Dee but also I know Irvin and Steven you have expressed at times a concern about the public eye, public participation in the process. Somehow in there I think there is a recognition of ways that the public does participate in the process. And realize that if we don't do the effective use of time, if we get stuck in certain areas that we may actually decrease the public willingness to participate in the ways that we allow. For example, someone shows up for a particular item and we stuck on item 7 for an hour and a half- well, later than this, this is item fifteen and I am out of here. Pfab: To piggy back on that- I think we have to bend over backwards to help the public get involved any way we can. And I think that is a very good point. You know, be on time and maybe sometimes we have to shut each other This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 69 off here because if you look at the agenda and these people. Because if you don't respect the public's time- why the- this is (can't hear). There is no sense in getting involved. I think you hit on something extremely important that we as- we want to respect each other's time but we also have to respect the public's time. They took the time to come here to do this one. Wilburn: And I am not trying to limit the public's debate. It is just that- Pfab: The next person. Wilbum: Yeah. Pfab: The next person should have the same right as the person that is-. Shields: Let's get to this- I think there is something out here on the table. Any other comments tight now? Vanderhoef: To go with that agreement kinds of things- typically we have had a five minute limit for anyone of the public who comes to the podium. For me, when it is one of these huge issues that there is a lot of public input coming and we recognize that we may be heating a lot of the same things again and again, I think it would be real appropriate to change that to three minutes. Partly in the interest of the public who wants to speak and be seen and stand up for their issue. And number two for the people who are listening out there to things again and again. And then what Irvin was just talking about was we still have a whole council agenda left to do sometimes after some of these public hearings. And I think this is something that if we recognize we have got a full council chamber and there is going to be a lot of speakers that night I think as a team we could look at our Mayor and say "I think this is a three minute issue not a five minute issue". To change the length of time. Shields: Let me separate out for you here. I want to try this- amongst yourselves start with that issue. Can we attempt to follow a rule of gerrnaness or a rule of relevancy? Champion: Yes. Pfab: I think that is critical. I think that is very important. Shields: And part of what we are asking then is we are asking the Mayor to intercede as the leader of the meeting. Now, how you do that obviously matters. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 70 Pfab: Okay, that gets back to where the Mayor may feel uncomfortable where somebody else is sitting around and says "hey, call the question". Champion: The Mayor should not be uncomfortable to do that. Pfab: No, no. But I am saying fight- he shouldn't. But sometimes he is not infallible and he is open to suggestions and that is where I say sometimes to call the question is a nice (can't hear). I think- and then that takes the responsibility of him being an org or whatever he is not supposed to be, you know, and somebody else to take the responsibility. O'Donnell: Calling the question Irvin is never a nice and polite thing. It means simply that you have reached the end and it is time to move forward. You have heard enough. You have not been convinced. It is time to move on to another subject. Pfab: You see, I disagree with you on that and that don't mean that I am fight. My point is I think that is- you test the water. Is this worth going on? But you have to get a majority to do it. It is a real simple process. Some people- it sounds like it is defensive. I don't think it should be. It is just another- it is just a parliamentary procedure that you just (can't hear). Shields: It is a procedure for saying discussion is over. Lehman: That is right. Calling the question is the same as saying "shut up, we have heard all we want to hear". It is pretty- O'Donnell: (can't hear) Lehman: -that is. It is pretty plain and pretty simple. That is what it is. Pfab: I totally disagree with you on that. Lehman: Then why do you call the question? Pfab: Pardon? Lehman: Why do you call the question then? Pfab: Because you are testing to see- is this- do we need to keep going on? Lehman: That is what I am saying. You are telling everybody to shut up, we are done. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 71 Shields: Let me try this with you though folks before we get- Pfab: I am- ifI- I look at it a lot different and if somebody ever called the question when I am talking I wouldn't take that as an insult. Shields: Irvin, Irvin. You are in a group. Right? It is a real group. It really exists. Right? Pfab: Right. Shields: What matters in that- how only you see calling the question or how everybody sees it? Pfab: Well, how everybody- so I just- I don't think I have ever heard it because it I have heard the implications as don't do that because that sounds bad. So I just don't call the question. Shields: But look- when you are coming to the end of debate and some of you might- some of you get there faster than others- then you have the opportunity to say "no, we are not done". But, I mean, usually calling the question means that somebody genuinely feels I think we have really talked it through. Lehman: Yeah. Shields: The other issue is you could be- you have long before you are ready to call the question you still could have issues of germaness. Pfab: That is true. Shields: That we have a great deal more to talk about but Ross all he wants to talk about is the White Sox. Okay? God bless him. Wilburn: It would be the Reds. Lehman: It sure wouldn't be the Cubs. Shields: So you know- Pfab: But how do you get- Shields: All fight, that is what I want to get to. Typically, then the Mayor or the Mayor pro tem if they are running the meeting has to be in power to say- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 72 and I know Emie in this instance well enough to know that he could do this in a way that was cordial- and say "folks, are we on the right track? Are we going- I would ask that we try to stick to the point". Can you all empower the Mayor to do that? Pfab: I think that is good. O'Donnell: You know, it is very easy to say that but the person has to accept that. Shields: That is what I am asking right now. O'Donnell: And that is the problem that I think you have. If you are totally convinced you are right- I would respect Emie's comment. But I am just saying if you do not agree with him that is when calling the question comes into play. Shields: Then you can resort to parliamentary procedures. My point is this- we are empowering the Mayor to try to keep the group on target and on track. Lehman: Although let me say as Mayor I also think that anybody on this council at any time during a meeting if they feel that the comments are becoming inappropriate has every right in the world to say the same thing- "hold it folks, is this really pertinent?". Anybody can do that. Shields: Can I suggest something to you after looking in at a lot of groups over lots of years- it will still be better if Dee is sitting there saying "My God, what are we talking about the White Sox for or Cincinnati Reds for?" Griffey is hitting .230 by the way. And she is in her mind saying that- I still think the way it works best is to ask the Mayor. "Mayor are we- can we stay germane here?" Lehman: That is fine. But anybody should feel free to say- Shields: Do you follow what I am doing? I am directing it back to the person that the group has empowered to do that. O'Donnell: We need to take a break. Shields: You need to take a break right now? Let's take 7-8 minute break. Let's come back- I want to get through this before noon. Pfab: So in other words- the question is to ask the Mayor "is this germane?"? Lehman: That is good enough if you just raise the question-. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 73 Pfab: How do you- because sometimes if you are sitting in a position that, you know, that you have- you are trying to keep your hands on all of the levers because you have to because you are running the meeting. Lehman: No. If you ask me if that is germane I pretty much am going to know that it probably wasn't or you wouldn't have asked. All fight, let's go. Microphone Tim. Shields: Sorry, sorry. Wilburn: He didn't say it if you don't wear that. O'Donnell: I think Connie went home. Lehman: No, I don't think so. She doesn't live in the restroom. Pfab: Somebody is going to go rescue her. Okay. Shields: (can't hear). It looks like pretty simple but I think this is really important to the group. And I think it has to be handled with sensitivity. Clearly. And if somebody feels like, no, I thought I was being germane. You know, they have to have the right to be able to address that back to the chair. We are not looking for heavy-handed treatment of this. But we also are saying that we have to have somebody in the group who is empowered to discipline us. A great discipline so that we can be more effective. And typically that would rest with the Mayor. I will also read two other points that were raised based on my observation of council. All of you still share the responsibility for this. All of you need to exercise the self-discipline that allows a group to be more germane, more on point. And I also agreed with a comment Mike made that I think spoke for all of you. It is that you have to agree to this as a team, as a group. To not only give Ernie that authority but that you will respond to it when it is exercised. I think that is a key issue. It is a critical issue. A very important one. Now it seems to me that obviously we have got this one out now. Now when we have talked about effective use of time we have talked about time- about continuing to use the current agenda management process so that we stay focused on where the group is trying to go. We have talked now about germaness. Have we dealt with this issue about the effective use of time or are there other elements of this that we need to discuss? Lehman: Those two things would help immensely. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 74 Pfab: I would have asked the question- I don't know- does that answer your question and maybe we are not on the same question here about the public- is that worked through there? You are solving the person that comes in and waits and waits and waits because they don't get a chance to speak? Wilburn: I think it helps. Pfab: Okay. I mean, I don't know- I always see that- it really bothers me to see somebody coming in and sit and sit and sit and finally get up and walk out. And you know they were there because they wanted to speak. That just- Shields: All right. Another element that was raised? Go ahead. Champion: I was just going to say that that is another thing that the Mayor can control a little bit in the sense that when he does the agenda the very non controversial things can be at the end of the agenda. Things like housing developments, how wide the road is going to be- you know, there is never a public- Lehman: You don't ever know what is controversial and what isn't. I promise you that. I promise you, you never know. We had an issue one night that should have been an up down two minute discussion that went an hour and fifteen minutes and was about replacing windows in a historic preservation district. So you don't know. Shields: The other point that was raised by Dee on this issue of germaness had to do- I wanted to make sure we talked about ourselves as a team. But the other element that it does affect you as a team is public input during meetings. And germaness and time use in that regard. And you are suggesting that you would have an ancillary rule when we know we have a large meeting. What I have seen councils do is two things. One is, yeah, you can adjust the time limit. You can adjust folks coming back to the mic. I don't know if that happens in your meetings or not. Pfab: The second time around you mean? Yeah. Shields: And the other thing that I have seen happen and sometimes effectively sometimes not effectively is from the chair it can be said that please try not to be repetitive. O'Donnell: Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 75 Kanner: That is the only thing I wanted to add to what we do fight. I think the Mayor is pretty good at that and making people feel comfortable and also letting them know please don't repeat yourself. And managing people pretty well. Shields: So the specific idea that Dee raised was an ancillary rule where we have we can situationally adjust the amount of time the public speaks. Individual members of the public speak. How do you feel about it council? O'Donnell: I don't know if I- everybody that comes up feels that they are representing their case and they will do it differently. And I just really- I appreciate it and encourage public comment. I do agree, Dee, when it becomes repetitive that something like this can happen. But I am just- I- Vanderhoef: It was just the time limit that I was putting, not the number of people. O'Donnell: But I don't think I am ready to say well you have- I don't like this little red and green light thing. I don't like to be told to shut- Lehman: You wouldn't like the trap door either would you? O'Donnell: Well-. Rather than fall through it I will shut up. Pfab: I really think that as much as Mike is opposed to it fight now as he is saying he is- the time limit- I think that that would be a wonderful thing if there was a public display of a clock and at five minutes you are over and then you can get to the end of the line. And after everybody else has spoken then you can get your next three minutes. I think you would require- it would encourage people to be very focused on what they have to say and everybody would be treated equally. And I know Ernie encourages that but when somebody goes over what do you do? You don't- we don't have the trap door fixed yet so-. Lehman: No, no, but I do occasionally tell someone they are reaching the time. I have been- I now write the time down when they start. Especially if it is going to be a long one. Pfab: But this way- then they would be- a public would instead of the Mayor having to do it the public would monitor that. They see the time- Lehman: But it doesn't happen that frequently. Champion: Most people don't even speak five minutes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. Ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 76 Shields: So on the five-minute issue- Lehman: I don't think that is a problem unless we have so many people, as Dee said, that the council chooses to change the rule to three because of the numbers. O'Donnell: One of the most effective things that I believe we have done is we have- when we open the meeting at 7:00 when we get to public discussion we say it is over at 8:00. That is effective and that in a way is controlling it. 3.) Communicate prior to meetings. Shields: So announcing the time limits? The broader time limits? All fight, I want to come- I am going to skip this. I am not really trying to manage who gets what on here but this one, again, I am coming to because we have talked it through fairly well. This communication about pending issues. And I don't think I captured it well here at all with language. But giving each other heads up, preparing information that goes to the whole team prior to a meeting. Right? Is that basically where we are at? So that we- in my view again, it is reducing surprises. But it is allowing us to communicate more effectively as well. So, communication prior to meeting. Is that the general language that makes sense? O'Donnell: It depends on how you look at that. It was called back room politics earlier. I mean, I speak with Emie quite frequently and I have never looked at it as- I look at it as trying to inform myself on issues. But I try and do that- Pfab: There is something on the floor there. So you don't step on it. O'Donnell: I try and do it the best I can before the meetings. And I try and get my questions answered so I can come into the meeting and try to get home before midnight and be efficient. Kanner: Mike, I just want to say actually I think it is good if two individuals among council, outside of council it is good. And I brought up the example for conflict of interest in response partially to the First Avenue being brought up as an example. To say that there are other types of conflicts of interest. On the other hand I think it is good that individuals talk and try to get together. And I am going to try to do more of that. One of the things also I am trying to do is when I am sending a memo to the staff asking for information or replying to memos I am going to try to cc it- some of them at least- to the Mayor or some of the other city council. And that might be This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 77 a good idea. And that way other people hear what I have to say to the staff. Pfab: And it also gives the staff- the work that they do- if that gets back fight away people could be on the lookout so their work is multiplied by seven. Okay, what they do for you and if the information comes back to you if you could just say this is what I found out. Then everybody knows. Atkins: Tim, can I comment on that? But also if you cc the council that, I think, assumes a reply should go back to everyone also. Kanner: Yeah, I assume- Atkins: As long as you understand that. You may ask a direct question of me and I can prepare and answer and that is fine. If you show a group of cc, I believe, I have some obligation to share that answer with them. Kanner: I agree 100%. And otherwise I would not cc. Atkins: Gotcha. Wilburn: And we want to make sure we don't have a discussion over the email that isn't- Lehman: That isn't legal. Wilburn: That it isn't illegal. Pfab: Oh, my- then there is that. Champion: That old email thing. Shields: When I started working with a city a few years ago and basically a newly elected person came in with, I think, sort of negative (can't hear) was going into the staff regularly- almost every day. The city manager's office and other staff asking rather profound and deep questions and expecting a response. And then began to find out that every response he received went to all of the rest of the council. And he went in and just in an uproar with the manager- why do you do that? That is what we do, we share all the information. Well, he quit doing it. You understand. Champion: So it is the 50/50 rule. Some people will like it, some people won't. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 78 Shields: What it was about was that you can't use that channel to try to one up the rest of the council. I mean, that is the bottom line. When they give you the information they have to give to everybody. There are questions that you may have that don't rise to that level. Fine. But I think that is part of what Steve is speaking to. All right, in this issue of giving each other heads up- communicating so that we- and changes that are coming on the agenda. Things that you want to take about. Basically, communication in advance. Tell me some- what is our agreement. What is our understanding here that will help us all? Lehman: If we don't have this sort of communication in advance- items that- ifI happen to have an item that I want on the agenda, if I don't find three other folks who are interested in agreeing with me it just plain isn't going to make it on the agenda. So I think it is, you know, if we don't among ourselves lobby our own position it isn't going to happen. I mean, that is just the way we operate. It takes the majority of the people to get it on the agenda. And I do think that the majority of us are very sensitive to the concerns of each other. So we would support an agenda item that we probably don't agree with just to talk it over. Pfab: As long at it is that way I think that is great. Champion: It has to have some merit. Lehman: Obviously if it doesn't have any merit we won't give it four votes. In our opinion. Shields: So part of what we are talking about is we are going to give each other (can't hear) so that we can begin to generate some of that. But also alert that this is going to- I intend to do this so that the rest of the group- we are reducing surprises in that way. We also said where we can produce paper on this is helpful. That was in the earlier discussion. Ross, you had given that as an example that if somebody knows they are going to bring in a resolution if you share that. Is that right? Wilburn: Right. Shields: Okay, good. I think there is a key issue. You know, I think obviously this one really makes sense to help strengthen a team. It also is one way to really destroy a team. If what it is about is three of you getting together outside to attempt to railroad issues then you are going to destroy the team. I don't think- obviously that is not what I am hearing you talk about. It is like being open so that folks know where things are coming from. Good. Anything else on that one? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 79 Kanner: Number one- I don't know, I didn't recall there being agreement- total agreement, there is a majority certainly. Shields: Here? Kanner: Yeah. Shields: No, there is not total agreement here. You were not in agreement. Everybody else was. Kanner: Okay. Shields: I tried to softly let you know that when I said that sometimes great ideas that get pushed aside show up two years later as successes. O'Donnell: And sometimes they just fade into oblivion. Pfab: Nothing personal. O'Donnell: Nothing personal. Lehman: Okay. Shields: Okay, I will go back to the line we were on. Eye contact, better positioning of the table of where you sit. I have heard councils talk about this and a variety of settings. It is very difficult. It is a very difficult issue logistically but none the less you said you would like to have it arranged so you all can see each other better? That was the number one thing? And presumably then communicate more effectively. Lehman: I hear what Steven is saying and I also- I would much rather look at the person that I am talking to. I think from the public's perspective we also address the public at council meetings which is why we are sitting down here fight now. It is why we sit down here at work sessions where we can sit and look at each other. Our formal meetings, as much as I think it is important to be able to see each other, it is probably more important that we make good eye contact with the public. Now, if it is possible to rearrange that and do that for both I wouldn't have a problem with it. but I think at the public meeting you probably- when we talk to the public it probably is more important than if we look at each other because we do that with more frequency. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 80 O'Donnell: I believe that at the formal council meeting you are addressing the public not each other. We do- and that is basically what you said Ernie. On Monday nights we sit in the horseshoe. Tuesday nights it is a meeting that is for the public. It is televised. And that is the time you address the public and I am comfortable with that. I don't like the height of it. Pfab: There you go. O'Donnell: But I don't care. I am not about to spend money to reduce it. Pfab: I think maybe what we should do is like some churches they have this place where the minister gets up, he walks up this little ladder- I think so the public could address us on an equal basis. Actually, you know, we are their employees but they have to look way up like this to us. That is just- and I have mentioned different times about having public hearings in other places so it is on a level playing field. And this bothers me but I look at and I say, well, how many thousands of dollars would it take to change it? So I forget about it. But it does bother me. Kanner: Emie, what I heard you say at other informal meetings is hold off on the discussion until the formal meeting. So I am hearing now somewhat of a contradiction in that- Lehman: Public hearings I don't- I feel we are inappropriate in going through items when we are going to have a public hearing on Tuesday night. it bothers me a great deal to hear items discussed on Monday night that should be heard on Tuesday night. Now, there are- on public hearing issues. On items that there is not a public hearing I don't have a problem with that. But I hear us having public hearings on Monday night that I disagree with. I think that those comments should be on Tuesday night. Kanner: Well- Lehman: For the public, obviously, which is why I say that. Kanner: For the public but also to hear us as representatives to have some sort of give and take. Lehman: But the public hearing is for the public hence the word public hearing. Kanner: But the idea is that we are going to take a vote after the public hearing after we have heard that and I think the public has a right to hear us state our positions and see if it can be changed from the public hearing plus other people's hearings. And it is very hard to do that the way it is set up This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 81 with the wide obtuse angle. I think it can be better designed and I know it was just put in a short while ago but it might behoove us to think that we don't want to wait 10 years until the next remodeling. That it might be worthwhile to encourage that kind of interaction and better communication. O'Donnell: You know how many- Lehman: Can we get four people to put that on a work session? O'Donnell: No. Lehman: I don't mind talking about that. Champion: I don't mind talking about it either. Lehman: Make a note Steve. I think it is worth talking about. Kanner: Did you vote on that? Pfab: Yes, I saw his vote. Shields: Nobody is voting here. There are no votes here. Okay. Another one we had is avoiding micro management visa vi boards and commissions. Let's get this one out openly and honestly with each other and see if this deserves or needs or requires an agreement amongst the group. Pfab: I think you were referring to myself and the computers? Is that what it was? O'Donnell: Well, we had several the same night. One of those was, yes, the computers. I mean, and I am saying we rely on the people that are there. They are very good people. Also in public art. I mean, it appears like we had a whole sheet of amendments and we had amendments to the amendments. Let's- you know, we placed a responsibility and charged them with doing a good job, let's give them credit for what they are doing. That is all I am saying. (changed tapes) Pfab: I will make a response if it is appropriate. Otherwise I won't. Shields: Go ahead. Pfab: Pardon? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 82 Shields: Yeah, do it. Pfab: Okay, this computer thing was this was something- this was the second time I watched something happen that really bothered me because it was public money and there was no competitive- there was no issue of bidding on it. It was "this is what I want" and it turned out as I was going through this I found out this was the same individual doing it both times in totally unrelated (can't hear). O'Donnell: The important thing to me Irvin was we were getting the computers for the kids and that group had selected them and I was ready- Pfab: I think it was only one person and it turned out that same person did it to another place and that really bothered me and I wanted to send a very strong signal. No more, no less. 4.) Refrain from participation in Boards and Commissions and other city created groups. Shields: On this issue other questions or comments on this issue ofmicromanaging with boards, commissions, committee, task forces? Lehman: I think the bottom line here from my perspective is that every council person certainly is invited and encouraged and whatever to attend board and commission meetings but that it probably is not a good idea for them to participate in the discussion. That is how I personally feel. That that is inappropriate. Pfab: I support that position but I would be very uncomfortable if we couldn't go in and sit down and observe. Lehman: No,- Pfab: But not participate. Shields: Do we have an agreement on that council? Pfab: That is an unbalance of power. Lehman: I agree. Shields: Could we have an agreement on that council? Refrain from participation- direct participation? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 83 Lehman: Unless directed by the council to do it. Shields: Right. Lehman: Yeah. O'Donnell: But then you have to be very careful that you are not speaking for the council. Lehman: No, if you are directed by the council to do it then you are speaking for the council. O'Donnell: But I am uncomfortable with that Ernie. Shields: With what Mike? O'Donnell: Well- no, I am not uncomfortable with that. I withdraw that. Pfab: Yeah, because we have different representatives that go to different places and we basically represent the council. Lehman: Well, yeah, but there are- Pfab: No, no, no. I mean other functions, joints or- Lehman: I am just talking about commissions and boards that we appoint should not- and I think neighborhood meetings are the same way- we can go observe because they are organizations that are formed by the city. It is probably inappropriate for us to comment at those meetings. Attend the meetings, visit before the meeting, after the meeting, during the meeting. Pfab: And I think sometimes going and attending them, again- not participating, but attending also gives some legitimacy or some encouragement to a group that may be struggling. Just going in and sitting down to say "I am here-". Shields: Do we have an agreement here on non-participation at such meetings? That attendance is fine but participation, no. Pfab: That is fine with me. Kanner: No, I think as a general framework that should be your overriding concern, probably not participating. But one of our great strengths as you said Mike is our boards and commissions. I think these are some of the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 84 strongest individuals around in the city and they are very good. And they are very capable of being able to separate different types of influence and take that into consideration. I think it is very important if a statement is made to a commission and even if you are not saying anything probably it is pretty good to say you are not here representing city council. This is just one individual coming and give that kind ofwaming. So I agree in the general sense but I don't think as a blanket rule it is the best thing. Shields: On this one I am going to be- again, I don't have any vested interest in you. I like you all, but on this one I think you really put yourself at risk with the rest of the group. On this one. Kanner: In what way? Shields: I mean, if you choose to go outside of this agreement I think this is one I have heard here today that puts you at some risk in terms of their trust and their respect. Am I reading you guys fight? Pfab: I think that is correct. Shields: You know, it is still your choice. I mean, I don't make- it always would be your choice. But it just one that I have heard them try to tell you pretty directly that this is a pretty big issue. Kanner: I have heard other things too and so I- Vanderhoef: From councilors? Kanner: No, no- what I hear unspoken is there is other issues that you are saying the same thing actually so I don't think it is just- Shields: I think some of the rest of these are very- you know, I mean, I think there is a meeting of minds, there is a middle ground. There is some respect for different positions. I am just trying to point out this is one that sounded pretty sensitive to me. Kanner: It is a point taken. Thank you. Pfab: And my point was it didn't dawn on me I went to one- I guess we had agreed not to go and all of the sudden I was there because of some other things (can't hear) and I said I will leave if you want. (can't hear) I said I don't intend to make any comments. But what I also learned was that and another one how much you can- your presence there is not unnoticed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 85 Lehman: That is why it is important not to speak. Pfab: Right, so yeah, I became aware of that very soon. So that is what I say- no, no talking. Shields: You may walk in there and think, well I am just Conhie Champion, but nobody else in the room sees you that way if they are working on city business. Pfab: I was kind of stunned. Kauner: I will just make one more statement about this and then I will be done with it. but actually in terms of conflict of interest my point of laying things out on the table [is] when you don't say anything I think there is probably more of an influence because people don't know where you are coming. And that hangs over- so I think at the very least one should give the disclaimer of saying "I am just here to watch or I have this comment" but to show up and to think that there is no influence- it is there no matter what we do. That influence is there. Lehman: But I don't think it is a positive or a negative influence your being there. The fact that you are there obviously is noticed but I don't think it has any impact unless you participate and then I think it can. Shields: Part of the agreement too is when you do choose to attend is to offer that disclaimer at the appropriate time. Good. I am also somewhat amused by the whole thing as to say a group of political leaders could actually be in a room with more than fifteen people in it and not talk. I like that, you know? That is a pretty neat idea. Champion: That doesn't happen. Lehman: It is an oxymoron. Shields: I am going to be the one to be the monitor. I want to go watch that. This is really a subjective area. And I don't know that there is an agreement that you are going to come out of this with. I think it is also a very salient, very key point. Is to come to some understanding that we can as a group reach agreement. To accept that is possible. I mean, that is what I was hearing somebody say- I don't even remember who it put it up there initially. Champion: I did and I would just like to expand on that a little bit because I think when you have people who have minority opinions they tend to group the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 86 rest of the council in the majority opinion. And I think that is a problem with this council, especially with you Steven, because you are frequently in the minority, that you assume that none of us relate to your minority position. And that is what I am trying to get at, that a lot of us have been in the minority position in a lot of different circumstances. And a lot of us don't come from the old boys club just because we make a good living. And that is another thing that I see you assuming. And that I would like to see you have more trust in the rest of us that maybe your minority position has got more respect among us than you realize. But sometimes when you approach it from the standpoint that there isn't any other positive feedback on it then it becomes a negative effect rather than a positive effect. And I think that is sometimes why you feel you are being treated differently with your minority position. So I am trying to tell you that a lot of us may support some of the issues you have if you assume there would be support. And that it is a position of real merit. That there would probably be quite a bit of support on it. But sometimes to bring things out just because it is controversial and you know there is not going to possibly be any support for it, then it becomes a time factor. And a lot of us come from backgrounds of minority positions. You are all talking about, you know, your guilt complex- well, let me tell you that I have a Jewish mother and a Southern Baptist father and I am Catholic and I grew up in a Methodist neighborhood. I know what is- Shields: You don't have time to be here Connie. Champion: I know what the minority position is. And I, you know, it is- everything is more complex. And the other thing that I think helps carry us through some of this is a sense of humor about it. So, I am not trying to- what I am saying to you is don't always view yourself in the minority. There may be more support out there than you realize. Kanner: I don't. And I wanted to address- you had some value-laden terms there that I don't think were quite fair. Saying I bring up things just because of controversy. I don't bring up things just because of controversy. Champion: Did I use the word controversy? Kanner: I bring it up because I believe it is the best thing for the city at large. Champion: I said merit. Kanner: You also used the word controversy. Champion: Maybe I did. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 87 Kanner: And merit, that is a value-laden term too. What has merit? I believe my positions have merit and it might not be a majority on the council but I do believe it has merit. And that is why I pursue it and hope to use council for changing things just like I use other things. And going along with the rules that are set up. Shields: I think the one element inside of this issue that has been raised in an interesting statement by Connie is to agree to listen to each other. I mean, that is it. I think you already know that and I am not going to write it down and send it back to you. But the key here is to really listen. That while Connie is talking so I already know what this is going to be about- get rid of that! Just really listen. Five months into this I think probably some of that kind of behavior has started in this group. Champion: It is. Shields: Ernie is going to talk lots of downtown business perspectives. Lehman: Except from the Downtown Business Association. Shields: No, they don't agree with it at all. But it is an issue and I think it is a possibility for this group to really try to backtrack, get rid of some of that, do not label, do not stereotype each other and to really listen. And to try to give that a shot. And to give that a chance. Vanderhoef: The possibility always is that if you don't get offof an issue soon enough it is easier to not listen as carefully then the next time that something else comes up from that person. So, if there isn't interest in a position to let it go and move on and bring out your next idea rather than carry on and on and on until the point that you stop listening. Shields: One Mayor said it to me this way, he said "If you haven't taken the time to get your ducks in a row at least count them". All right. More transparent. We had a specific issue here of taping work sessions. Pfab: I think that is pretty close to what Dee was saying. Champion: We have already discussed it. Shields: You have discussed it and there is not general agreement on that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 88 Lehman: We agreed to disagree on that one. The majority didn't feel it was worth- that it should be done- and the vocal minority thought it should be done. And I can certainly see both sides of it. Shields: Is there any other elements of- Pfab: So you will change your vote now? Lehman: I didn't say that. Shields: Moving away from personal agenda- Kanner: Is there any way that we can see if there is- meet some of these concerns? I think it has to do with the Monday Tuesday transition. I don't know if there is a way to do it different but maybe we can kick that around for a minute or two to see. Besides taping on Monday night what could help that? Lehman: I don't see a problem with it to be perfectly honest with you. I mean, the meetings are open meetings. Anybody from the public can come. They are covered by the media. Discussions generally that I have seen on controversial topics are fai~y well covered in newspapers. I don't see the problem with the way we are doing it. And I do see the problem with trying to televise it. This is the discussion that we had when we decided not to do it. Wilbum: There is also- I will be selfish- because there are the media, because there are - Kanner: No, can I- were are not- Ross, I made a proposal not to have televised but look at other proposals. So I would suggest take that off the table because we voted against it. And I am proposing there are problems there. Ernie says he doesn't think so but I am suggesting there are some problems and how can we correct that? So I- it would be helpful for me to- Wilburn: So it is not- I am hearing you say that now but when this discussion came up when I hear you bringing it up now, the other night when Bob Welsh brought it up the point keeps coming back to you- it is the public's business. Okay? Now, ifI start with that premise, how can I keep the public's business on Tuesday nights? If we work to try and insure that we have a discussion on Tuesday night- okay, there is the public hearing, public you have already spoken, now we will talk to each other. In my mind, that is the debate. I make sure I bring it up then. Okay, I am going to stop, we are getting in that area, Monday I will stop and I will bring it This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 89 up then. Maybe you can give some more ideas beyond it is the public's business that will insure that that happens on Tuesday. Because when I keep heating it is the public's business, I mean, the natural reaction is well, the public does have some access to it. O'Donnell: I wonder how many of us think that- how much of what we do is extremely non-controversial? Lehman: Most of it. O'Donnell: How much of it do we do that there is a 7-0 vote and it flies through? Any item that is controversial you can rest assured we are going to hear it on Tuesday night. That is why we have public discussion. Wilburn: Let's start by- what more on Tuesday- what are those things in your mind that need to happen on Tuesday that we need to push to Tuesday so that if the bottom premise- Kanner: I am not saying necessarily to push it to Tuesday. I am just- I am not sure what the solution is and maybe how to present the problem. But I will give an example of a citizen saying how most of the decisions on the skywalk from the Senior Center, if not all, basically have been done on Monday where there is no public input. So, to me, it is a problem. But others don't see it as a problem and I am saying how do we deal with that? And if- one solution I had was TV but we are taking that off the table because we voted against that. So I am saying are there other ways? And there might be other problems so I just put it to the council- are there other problems and are there solutions? I am not quite sure how to say either one of those. Vanderhoef: But there is always that opportunity on Tuesday, which is public time and it is on television. So we have had commissioners come from the Senior Center. We have had some of the committees that work within the Senior Center come and make statements. So I don't know what would be different if they spoke at Monday night other than it would just bog us down. So, I think we still have that opportunity for those folks to come and be heard. Lehman: I know what Steven is saying and I think that, I mean, you have got a good point. The discussion relative to the Senior Center skywalk, although we did not decide to build the skywalk, we decided to do the engineering which is tantamount to building it, without any public discussion other than the letters that we have received and the folks who came before council. And there was at that meeting no opportunity for public This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 90 discussion. I know exactly what you are saying. And that particular example is exactly right. O'Donnell: We did the same thing with the skateboard park, Emie. We do that all the time. Pfab: Maybe there is another method here and it may not be difficult. How soon after the meeting is there a rough draft of what went on at the- what was the agenda at the meeting? How soon is that draft (can't hear)? Karr: A rough draft of the agenda? Pfab: Of the proceedings at the work session. Karr: Right now we do complete descriptions along with minutes and that takes roughly 9 days. It is over 100 pages each time. Pfab: So what I am saying is that at the work session if there could be a- if the public could pick up something that said this was the items that were discussed and it will be available at the city hall. That might be the solution because that gives people a heads up of what is- if there is a way to do that. And that is my only reason for being interested in the televising. O'Donnell: It is an open meeting. They can come down here. I mean- Pfab: I don't know- maybe some people are not as- do not have the luxury of being- having flee time to come down and still have an interest in it. And as a result we shut them out. O'Donnell: That is why we hold our meetings at night. Champion: I have two comments on this. First of all, I am for televising the meetings so I am in the minority position there. But I am also in the minority position in the sense that the reason I am interested in televising is not because I think it is the public's business. I am totally for public input but I think public input really takes place at the polls. And I view my decision as my decision. And for whatever reasons I make it I make that decision. I think that the public's real input is at the polls and not the Monday night- not at the Monday night work session. So I view it as my business to which the public is invited to help me. But I view the real decision of the public's business as going to the polls and voting. Lehman: I just wanted to comment Connie, because I absolutely agree that- This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 91 Champion: You agree with me? Lehman: Once in a while. But I do think that- Pfab: That was last weeks. Lehman: I believe that many times we use the excuse for not doing our jobs for trying to get more public input. We need more input on this, we need more input on that. We are elected to do a job. We have got a staff that is an expert staff. They are as good of folks as there is anywhere. They give us good recommendations. We have got boards and commissions and what do we do? We ask the public to micromanage instead of doing what we were elected to do. So I don't have a problem with doing the job I was elected to do. I have no problem with listening to public input. But on the other hand, I don't expect the public- and by the public the only time, the only folks that we see at public meetings on an issue are special interest groups that want their view heard- that is all you are heating. Our job is to represent those 90% of the people in the community that didn't vote for us. That is our job. Not to listen to the group that comes down to talk about the street light, or the skywalk, or the street or the bridge- although I think we need to listen to them. Kanner: Or the subdivision. Lehman: That is fight. That is exactly fight. Because we have to represent everybody and we are elected to do that, not to sit there and take a vote at a public meeting as to how many people are in favor of this street and how many aren't. That is a really poor method of making a decision at a council level when the entire public elected us. Pfab: I guess the question I have is this: when are we individually more comfortable making a vote? When we have information that the public wants us to have? Each one of those people out in the public have an opinion and it is maybe self serving but they have ideas that the rest of us don't have. Just because they are where they are. So do we want them to let us know before we vote or not? I don't know. Lehman: Certainly we do, but we have information that they don't have. Pfab: I agree. So my point is you try to invite them to come in and have something to say so that they feel that they are part of the community. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 92 Shields: -pull you back. It seems like, you know, folks we are going to run out of time here unless you are willing to go over with me a little bit and we will decide that. What I fearful of, and I really hate this, is I don't know whether the next three were more important than the ones we are talking about. And that worries me. Vanderhoef: Could I offer- Shields: But we are not going anywhere in this, I can tell you that. We need to come to some closure on this particular issue. Vanderhoef.' What I am- I am listening on this public input and the difference that I am listening between Ernie and Irvin is that the public is interested in the micro piece of what is happening and we are, hopefully, a lot more informed than the rest. And one of the things that we talked about earlier, and I think it was even Steve that brought it up, was the futuristic and the broad big picture. And we sit in a position where we see or could see the big picture and how all of these things interrelate. Whether it be with the budget. Whether it be with an area of town. Whether it be with the community standards. We hear a lot more than the single-issue people. And yes, we take into effect how that is going to affect a neighborhood or development or a policy. But we have to be able to go ahead and move forward on these things and look at what it is going to look like five years from now, what it is going to look like 20 years from now. And how we relate to even our county and our region. Kanner: Dee, I would say that I agree with a lot of what you are saying and it cuts both ways. When we use terms like "micromanage" other people say we are looking at the broader picture and we want to look at where- is the money being well spent for these computers? We are guardians of the treasury of Iowa City and we have to make sure it is well spent. So we are asking questions. So in my mind just remember that it cuts both ways when people are saying the "broad picture" and when the are inquiring into an issue. Shields: Let me suggest- I guess the one piece of this that you had already talked about was the televising. I think that Steve tried to put it out and package it in another way so, all right, forget televising- there is some other way. I don't hear you moving towards some agreement here. What other ways are there to deal with the potential or perceived issues on this one? Steve, I think we had a shot at it. I didn't hear you offer nor did I hear anybody else respond. Kanner: I will offer one. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 93 Shields: Okay. Kanner: Perhaps we could say that we could have minimal public input on Monday. A council member could recognize one person to speak to the council. Lehman: The problem with that is you have to recognize- if you are going to let one person speak you have to let everyone involved speak which means you have to invite everybody and it turns into a public heating, not a work session. O'Donnell: On every issue. Kanner: Yeah, it is a difficult one. But maybe there is some way to reach some sort of compromise on that if at a later time we-. Shields: It doesn't seem like we are going to get there today. Kanner: Yeah. Shields: Moving away from the personal agenda, the big picture. And again, I think we have talking about this off and on throughout a number of these issues. The effective use of staff, getting answers, some respect for their time. And I really think there was agreement in the group about that. Lehman: I think so. 5.) Continue to use processes and resources (staff) Shields: And Steve, I guess, I'll give an opportunity from the manager perspective- are we- is there some feedback you want to provide to the council in this area? Atkins: (can't hear). Shields: Okay. We are okay on this one? And again, we have a process when we know we have a significant one- when we are asking for significant expenditure of resources so staff time, staff effort- you have a process to deal with that. Correct? We are going to continue to honor that process. Atkins: Maybe one comment. Shields: Yes, sir? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 94 Atkins: If a council member brings an issue to me or to staff and it is my judgement- it is ajudgement call I have to make- that it is and it is because of my experience with you all, if it is my judgement that this item should go back to the council I want to feel comfortable telling you that. Don't be mad at me that I believe that this item is of such consequence it should go back to the rest of the council. I am saying- I am telling you yeah we will do the work but I really believe this is something that the council has to bless. O'Donnell: I don't have any problem with that. Shields: And we all understand and we all agree to that? Okay. Dilkes: Can I- I am sorry Tim- since Steve has his department and I have got my own can I just comment on that? I think I have made it quite clear that both from a time management perspective and in my position from an ethical perspective- because I represent not the individual members of the council but the council as a whole which operates by four council members- that in my department unless it is- often a council member will come to me with a quick question of can you pull this ordinance for me or what do you think about that- I have no problem with that. But any kind of issue development or research, my response to the council member is you need to go back to the council and you need to determine if there are four members of the council who wish me to proceed. So, I think that has been pretty clear. Shields: Everybody understands that? Kanner: Was there anything from Marian? Karr: I guess I am somewhere in the middle. Often I will get requests from individuals- I won't check with Steve because I, too, have my own department. And I will often respond and then sometimes really question the message and the mixed signal I send to my staff, too. Because I will respond one time and not respond the next time. I think, again, it would be very helpful to realize when it is a lengthier retrieval to have that same comfort level as Steve has pointed out that it is going to take awhile- are there four of you who want it? Or else- also realize that the rest of you then might want to know that is what I have been doing. Because often it will put a delay on some other projects. So I think that is a real concern. O'Donnell: Good point. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 95 Shields: Can we ask that, Marian, in all instances what Steve is saying is when I think this rises to the level that we need to have council approval, you want individual council members to understand that is simply professional judgement? Atkins: Absolutely. It has to be. And I can assure each council member I will explain to you the thought process. I believe this based upon something I may have knowledge that you might not. I just- don't be perturbed with us if we say "I really believe this is something the council needs to make a decision on". I don't believe it is going to happen loads of times. But you have an issue as a council member that is really hot and really important to you and if there is great deal of research that has to be performed and I sense that there may be some conflicts I don't want to be out there doing the work (can't hear). Wilburn: It is about allocating resources- time is a resource. Shields: The attorney saying the same thing? Atkins: I think so. Shields: But I think what I want to say for Marian is that she should have that same ability to give you feedback and say "boy, this one kind of is- this is kind of a tough one. I am not sure where I can (can't hear)". Okay? Karr: Correct. Shields: Council? O'Donnell: Everybody should be comfortable. Shields: Okay. Awareness of conduct outside of meetings was another issue you identified. I think we have talked about some of this in terms of boards, commissions and so forth. We had another interesting discussion in the realm of working with political or citizen groups. Are there other elements of this that we need to get to? I almost never run over but I am going to folks because I want to get you to closure. Lehman: Tim, the only thing I would say about conduct outside of meetings is if we wish to be effective with each other at council meetings I think that many times our conduct outside of council meetings is going to affect our ability to work with each other. And I think that is ajudgement call. Obviously we are all individual citizens and we can do as we please- within limits. But I think it is a matter of professionalism as a councilperson and how This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 96 interested we are in working with each other. Because there is no question that conduct outside of council meetings in some cases is going to affect the effectiveness of a councilperson working with their peers. And that is a personal call. 6.) Clarify "political activity" or city property O'Donnell: And to follow up on that Ernie, you know, it does affect your effectiveness working with this group. But even in your actions outside, we have- I don't know Eleanor maybe you can help on this- we have said it is inappropriate to solic- I lost my tongue- Lehman: Solicit. O'Donnell: Solicit signatures in the public library, the Senior Center- because they are public buildings. If that is the case that is one of the rules that I think we all should follow. I am very uncomfortable with going into public buildings and campaigning or whatever is going on. You can't have a- I just think we observe rules that we basically set. I am uncomfortable with people soliciting signatures in public buildings. We have said we are not going to do that. Dilkes: I think what we have said is that there is some distinction- and I know the policy for the Civic Center for instance- is it is a question of where you are in the public building. The lobby of this building is more sort of a public forum. The private offices where the city business is done is- that is where it is not appropriate to be undertaking that activity. And the library and the Senior Center have somewhat similar rules. Shields: Steve, do you have a comment? Kanner: No, I was going to echo that that is what we had talked about. But we are- just to make it clear- we are people- any citizen can go into the Senior Center or the library and to a certain extent get signatures or talk to people. It is a public place and we haven't set any ordinance against that in Iowa City, to my knowledge. O'Donnell: When we get calls when they are complaining Steven, is when I have a problem. When the seniors are complaining that they are aggravated or badgered, that is when I have a problem with it. Vanderhoef: The distinction between the lobby and in where people are dining are two distinctions for me at least. That you can talk to anybody out in the lobby and if you have your petition I guess you can sign your petition there. But This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 97 to go into a meeting within the Senior Center or into the public dining part of it where they are coming specifically for a reason there, then it is no different than the office in the Civic Center- to me. Kanner: Actually, as long as we are getting specific, it is different because people are encouraged to come and the administration of Senior dining which is under the counties hospices, encourages people to come and talk and even candidates for office to come and talk. And certainly no one wants to be badgered and so I think Senior dining handles that very well as far as setting limits for people and badgering people. But that really doesn't go on. I have been there- I was there for a year and a half and I never saw badgering going on there. I saw some good interaction and that is the idea of congregate meals actually is to have people congregate and be able to be part of the community. Shields: The general issue here though is behavior outside- how it affects the team? Lehman: And I do think that- you know, cutting to the chase- the bottom rule is, or the bottom consideration is- is it appropriate for an elected official to approach members of their constituency asking for support for an item when that same person may at some point in the future need to approach that councilperson for something to do with other city business? Is that appropriate? Do you put the citizen in an uncomfortable position asking for support? I think you do, but I think that is also a personal call. And I think that decreases your effectiveness as a councilperson. Champion: There is always different ethics associated with different decisions. And I am just going to reflect on nine years I was on the school board. And there were some definite ethical rules about campaigning for issues and campaigning for the position. And that is- school grounds were off limits. You could go to the school grounds. You could not pass out brochures. You could not solicit signatures. You could not solicit money. You couldn't really campaign- you could answer questions that people asked of you. And the PTAs would have forums and you would go to those and then you were asked direct questions and that was a form of campaign. And then you could pass out literature. But whether that is for campaigning for the school board or the school district campaigning for the enrichment tax or- they call it something else now- or a bond referendum. That was off limits. The actual campaigning of it was off limits on the school grounds. And that kept everybody on the same position and it kept staff, teachers, where they are the school board's directed employee from getting into the situation that you are talking about. If I don't agree with you am I going to get my raise next year? Because you did have direct control of those things. So there is- that I This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 98 found very workable and nobody ever objected to it. so, I mean, we could talk a little bit about that sometime when we have time. About what is appropriate on city grounds as a member of the city council. Who is supporting the issue and who doesn't support an issue or who is running for office or wants to talk to his constituents. It can be pretty even for everybody without stepping on anybody's toes. And not get into this ethic controversy. That is why I was totally shocked when Karen Kubby had her office hours at the Senior Center. I thought that was really inappropriate. Now, it wasn't illegal and it probably isn't really even appropriate but because I had (can't hear) it kind of bothered me. I didn't try to stop her from doing it. I am just using her as an example because everybody knows about that one. So there are some rules- just some rules- this is right and this is wrong. It doesn't even have to be an ordinance. But, that is it. Pfab: I think Connie brings up a very interesting question. Where can we as city council people meet constituents? You can't do it in the library, you can't do it in the Senior Center. Here, is this the only place? And is there a time? Can you set a time? O'Donnell: There is no rule that says you can't meet them anywhere. It is a matter of influences- Pfab: If you want to take the time, again, it is conservation of time. If you want to take time to sit out where people can come and visit with you where can they do that? Lehman: Irvin, people call me on the telephone at home any time of the day or night, seven days a week. And if they need to meet with me at a certain time and place I do that. So, I mean, as far as I am concerned that isn't even an issue. If they want to talk to you they can call you and say "Irvin, look, can you talk to me tomorrow? We will meet at the Civic Center" or "We will meet at College Green park" or wherever is convenient for you to meet. I don't see that as being a problem. We are all available- Shields: The issue here is about what we are calling loosely "political activity". Go ahead Steve. Kanner: I want to respond to Connie and Ernie. Yeah, I don't think we need to make an ordinance but if we do it is okay to have that discussion. But what I would like to do is- obviously I hear what you said Connie and Ernie said and I will take that into consideration when I do work outside of city council and how that is going to affect here. What I would like to do is talk to you sometime outside of here and we will go back and forth. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 99 Obviously we have difference of opinions. I think the Karen Kubby example is a good example because there is a certain philosophy of how city council should have resources for instance. And so that gets to that. And it is a difference of opinion of what it means to be on council. And so hopefully we will have some informal discussion on that. Shields: I think what we- we can agree here that let's get this one piece of this that seems relatively objective- we agree to get some clarification here. I mean, to pick on (can't hear) this discussion. We talked I think already about- well, no we didn't- we had asked about- I want to suggest that juggling or moving staff's time schedule is probably a substantive issue and an operational issue. I think when I heard you raise that Steve it was as much for the public or more for the public even then council. Kanner: A little of both. And I am not that attached but throwing it out there is a possible solution. Shields: I have run over- like I said- year in and year out I almost never run over but I knew we were really close. I wasn't going to beg you for the afternoon that I know is very valuable for you. I wanted to come to some point of closure. This last discussion is extremely important. And I think- you know, I can walk in any one of your shoes and see the world, a little bit at least, like you do. And I can understand the legitimacy of each one of the points of views. I really can. I do believe that the city- the citizens- need a council that can work together. I believe that. I think the city needs that. Do they need opposing voices? Yeah, I think they need that too. Do they need to make sure- do the citizens need to have a council that makes sure all sorts of constituencies are heard? I believe that. But they also need a council that can work together and that can be successful in a positive agenda. Where is the balance? I can't give you that place, you know, that absolute place. That by choosing a one political perspective and point of view- which by the way, I could be real comfortable in Kanner's shoes I suspect based on my history and my past. But how much of that do I have to insist on without thinking about the impact on the team? Ernie's point of view- you know, I have seen these guys, I don't agree with a lot of those points of view. I could be in Ernie's shoes. I am an old fart now too. Lehman: I resent that. Shields: I am sorry. Lehman: I resemble that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 100 Shields: And I have also shifted and changed over the years. And I can be in Ernie's shoes and I say "well, we have heard some of this stuff before and I just don't want to hear it all again". No, what cost to the team does that kind of defining of each other do? My point is this- the team does matter to all of you. No matter where you come from, no matter what point you position yourselves in this group the team does matter. And I share this with you and I think it is less true in some instances than others but I think it is generally true- years down the road folks are not going to say "it was a lousy council but Kanner was great". Folks are not going to say that "it was a great council but Ross just never contributed". That isn't the way you are going to be remembered. You are going to be remembered by what you do together as a group. That is one of the bottom lines for all of you. I started at the beginning telling you nobody has to give up anything here. I don't think you do. But I do think you have to be conscious of each other and agree to try to understand where you are coming from. Has this been helpful? You have got lots of stuff on the table. Connie, you are my toughest measure here. Champion: I had a lot of work to do. I mean, I just think it is the way it is. Pfab: You are going to pass in other words? Champion: I think it is great to have this kind of giving out of thoughts. Do I think it is important to do? No. And of course I said that at the beginning. I think we are all different. We all have diverse backgrounds. We all have- not- our own agendas. And I guess I think that is what the whole political process should be about. If we were all alike we wouldn't even have to have a city council. We wouldn't have to have an election. So, do I consider this a waste of my time? I won't quite say it is a waste of my time. Would I rather have been doing something else? Yes. Shields: How about the rest of you? Feel okay? Did we do something that is of some value to you? O'Donnell: I kind of would have liked to have been with Connie. There is some good- I guess if we all look at is as constructive criticism. Try to pull it together from there. And I am not so sure that all seven of us ever have to sit down and - Shields: Hold hands? O'Donnell: I don't think that is ever going to happen and I don't think that is important that it happens. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 101 Shields: I don't either, I agree. O'Donnell: You want seven different opinions and then you talk over the issues and you move to consensus. And I- I really think that this- I don't think this council has been beating up on each other and I think there has been a great deal of civility on some fairly difficult issues. But I am glad I went would I go again? I don't know. You did a good job. Champion: Oh, yeah. Wilburn: I think the value for me is in some sense backing away from heating you discuss and your thought on something that we have got to vote on Tuesday night, but just stepping back and heating you talk about some other things that we don't get an opportunity to talk about. I get- I personally and this is selfish- I get insight into just heating how you think, how you talk. And that is information for me for when I need to try lobby. Champion: Too much information now Ross. Pfab: Want to know what our weak points are. I felt that- I didn't want to come, I had other things to do- but it was time well spent. Shields: I appreciate the opportunity to work in my hometown. It was nice to get up in the morning and realize I am already there. But I also appreciate the opportunity to listen to you talk about these issues. Some of these are difficult. Some of them are things that you are going to continue to wrestle with. I am going to leave here though believing that each and every one of you cares about this community. That comment was made earlier about one of the strengths. And I believe that very strongly and that should carry you through. And I hope the part about caring about the community is also caring about this group. Emie probably has heard this- the last things I will share with you is- I will cut to the last part of it. and this is the Athenian oath, the code that was required. And if you had lived in Athens then you were a free person. You ultimately had to serve on the city council. It was a requirement of citizenship. In essence, the city council. But this is what they were asked to abide by "We will revere and obey the city's laws. We will transmit this city not only less but greater, better, and more beautiful then it was transmitted to us". After all the fighting, after all the disputes, after all the conflicts, after all the different perspectives and points of view that is still what it is about. That is still what it is about. And I think that is the goal that all of you share. I thank you for the time. I thank you for letting me go over. I thank you for the opportunity. I wish you the best of luck. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 102 (AFTERNOON SESSION. CITY MGR. ATKINS FACILITATING) Atkins/Mayor do you want me to review those as well? Lehman/Well I don't need (can't hear). Marian's ready. Atkins/Now. O'Donnell/Sir. Atkins/Start out with a little respect today. That's it we're done for today. (can't hear). Atkins/What was that again? Lehman/What did you hear? Kanner/Hey you. Atkins/Hey you, that sounds more like it. What I want to do is, what I hope to accomplish with you today is in the more traditional sense of goal session. One of the thing that you'd like to see done over the next couple of years. And I think in the memo I said 2-3 years, that's not hard and fast. I mean some of those will need, what I'm hoping you'll tell me is that well we may not finish it, you certainly want this initiated. As you know capital projects invariably are year to plan, year to design, year to build so the overlap counsels. If you have a particular issue that you want to address that a formal programming or policy, basically what I'm saying to you today is pretty much you want is fair game. You know one of the things that your interested in seeing us do. Dale will serve as Egore, he's going to record. Helling/I don't (can't hear). Atkins/No (can't hear). So Dale will be Eg0re and do the recording. I just found it easier for me to concentrate on what you have to say and so Dale we're about ready to cook. What I want to do, everybody at the table is equal. Seven members of the City Council, I've asked each of you to think about four goals, there wasn't real magic to that, it's just that I thought 4 x 7 is 28 items that we might end up discussing. We'll try to move to clean those up, shorten that list and then I have a priority setting process that I'll take you through and assuming our times are still decent at the end, we'll follow by brainstorming, just open the floor, something This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 103 you might be interested in seeing us think about doing whether it's a personal interest or something you require the organization to do. Everybody ready. Kanner/I have a question, do you want us to say what our goal is, that it's doable, or do you want us just to say what is passable by majority? Atkins/No I want to know because I've asked each of you to come up with a, and I'm going to go around and I'll also give one and Mike will give one, and then we'll go back around and back around and back around and back around. Because someone may something for you which will give you time to think about another one. I think it has to be doable, if there are some very serious financial implications, I can flag those for you, most of you know what those issues are anyway. If it's vision related, that's OK too, I mean there's something like I'd like to see us work toward that. Because remember we're going to go back through these things and do some calling. Yes Emie. Lehman/I was just going to tell Steve that this should be somewhat visionary. I wouldn't worry for a heartbeat if there's a majority had any interest at all because I think if we limit ourselves to what we think other people are going to like we're going to be really inhibited. Atkins/This is each of you trying to put something on the agenda that ultimately you'd like to get the collectably a collaborative effort to buy. OK with that? So it's just a little more relaxed. I have no reason to start with anybody other than you. Wilburn/OK. Atkins/First one up, give one. Wilburn/Some type of, as we develop the Peninsula project and looking out there around Dubuque Street, it's kind of a major entrance into the city, just some type of thoughtful presentation entrance into. Atkins/OK Dubuque Street in particular or entrance ways in general? Wilburn/I'm thinking Dubuque Street. Atkins/OK. Wilburn/It seems to be one where a lot of visitors come through with you know students, or events going to Hancher. It doesn't necessarily need to be a duplicate of the entry way into Coralville. Atkins/I understand. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 104 Wilburn/But you know when your going out on that strip that this is Coralville. Atkins/So North Dubuque Street entry way, we'll call that I think that generally and we'll get the specifics later on. Mike. O'Donnell/Well mine's, well it is visionary, I think we should be looking at regional transportation. Atkins/OK, regional transportation. O'Donnell/And along with that, moving or paratransit system. I want to make that better than it is now and move it as close as we can to. Atkins/Let me try, regional transportation can mean a road network, regional transportation can mean a collaborative public transit. Which one are going? O'Donnell/I'm talking collaborative effort. Atkins/OK so it's regional public transportation which we'll just say the buses, try to fine some way to do it. And in particular I guess I can give you that one, in particular you want attention drawn to paratransit? O'Donnell/I want a paratransit system moved forward so it's I believe it's more equal to the accessibility of our regular. Atkins/OK so regional transportation and public transportation is the component. I think parenthetically put paratransit under it and we'll pick it up from there. Ernie. Lehman/We'll I'm sure this is kind of a hot button but I mean every time you ever hear anybody talk about priorities one of them is always Economic Development. I think there's two parts to that, we have a committee which will begin tomorrow I guess. But there are two parts of it. Atkins/(Can't hear). Lehman/No I'm sorry. Atkins/Not for a while (can't hear). Lehman/This afternoon. Atkins/No that' s Airport. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 105 Lehman/Oh I didn't know that. Atkins/OK. Lehman/See I don't know what's going on. Atkins/You did tell me yes. Lehman/I did tell you yes, that's no problem but I guess I got the wrong committee. Atkins/OK, Economic Development, I think you specified it just (can't hear) that's a pretty broad topic. Lehman/No I think there are two, one of them I think is long term you know and I think that looking at the scope of the area totally and I think that probably it is one thing that the Economic Development committee is going to look at. The other one is more short term, and I think we are going to have the opportunity to address Sycamore Mall, the Broadway area, Towncrest area, and I think we've got to be ready to address those folks and see if there's anything that we can do to enhance the redevelopment of those areas. Atkins/I'd like to specify the short term and actually by notation, say Towncrest, Sycamore, I mean these are projects. Lehman/And I think those are going to be on our plate rather soon. Atkins/OK. Pfab/Sycamore, and Towncrest and what was the other one, there were three? Lehman/Well the Broadway area. Atkins/We'll let you clean that up when the time comes OK. Connie. Champion/I would like to see us preserve our inner city as part of our economic development through historic preservation, zoning, whatever needs are available, to include the river (can't hear). Atkins/OK historic preservation, inner city. Champion/Conserve to preserve our inner city as part of our economic development because I think it is a very. Atkins/Preservation. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 106 Champion/It makes Iowa City unique. Atkins/Preservation of Inner City and that's the broadest definition possible, I mean I assume that means housing, everything associated with. Champion/Right, right, right. Atkins/OK Preservation of Inner City. Champion/And you could do that through Historic Preservation. Atkins/That's one of the tools to do, OK we'll spend some time on that. Irvin. Champion/Whatever means are, you might know what means are available. Pfab/Long term or not long term or really terrific goal would be to run fiber optics, city owned fiber optics into every resident in Iowa City. Atkins/City owned fiber optics. OK, residential service or something such as that. Pfab/Because at that point then you can do a lot with that. Atkins/You can do a lot with that. Dee. Vanderhoef/I'd like to go through some prioritizing on what we see as needs and new employees for the city. Atkins/OK needs, employment needs of the city. Lehman/Labor force projections. Atkins/OK like if we build two new fire stations your going to need X number of people for it, if your going to do this service you'll need that. OK. Vanderhoef/Yea rather than wait for the requests to come by department, let's look at it in a. Atkins/More comprehensive view. OK, good, city labor force, particularly future issues as our service program changes and certainly the changes in service program rest with you all. Steve. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 107 Kanner/This is different than Mike' s, although it might encompass some of it but more money for public mass and alternative transportation, and alternative would be things like perhaps walking and biking. Atkins/OK so public transportation particularly the alternative look because. Kanner/(can't hear). Atkins/OK anything you want to say, I don't want to put words in your mouth. OK. Public transportation. Kanner/Just more dollars for public. Atkins/OK so your specifically saying we want, I want money. Kanner/For, yea, for public and mass and alternative transport. Atkins/Put a dollar sign there too Dale so we know that specifically a. OK. Start back around. Wilburn/I'd like some way for us to look at ways to more formalize young people contributing to our community development, we had more, we had bits and pieces of it, Parks and Recs. had young people helping with the concept of the skateboard park. Atkins/Young people. Wilburn/A formal way, more formal way for young people to contribute to our Community Development efforts. Atkins/OK. Formal ways for involvement of youth, did you want to. Wilburn/In community development. Atkins/Community development meaning, we'll narrow that later. Wilburn/Yea we'll narrow that later. I mean there's different formats for that. Atkins/Oh sure. Wilburn/And so I don't know at this point what the best format. Atkins/I was going to say that's as much a process question as anything, that's OK. Mike. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 108 O'Donnell/Well I go along regional again I'm looking at suddenly moving toward regional fire protection. Atkins/OK, regional fire protection. All right. O'Donnell/And that also is very important as we grow. Atkins/Do you need to specify that in any way? I mean county wide, Coralville, Iowa City, no limitations? O'Donnell/I believe county wide. Atkins/County wide OK. Helling/Except fire district (can't hear). Atkins/Yea, good, Emie. Lehman/I think the most confusing thing for me as a council person, I think it has been, in all the years I've been on Council for the entire Council person is some sort of understanding of our role as a public housing authority. When it comes to understanding HUD money's, home money's, all this sort of thing, I think basically we're in the dark. Atkins/Yea. You are, or the community is? Lehman/We are, we're the Public Housing Authority. Atkins/Your the Public Housing Authority's. Lehman/(Can't hear) even know basically. A couple years Doug and. Atkins/They wrote a memo, I remember that. Lehman/They wrote a memo which we ought to almost dig out for the rest of the Council, at least for me again because I can't. We don't have I don't think the understanding of housing issues, and the way our own housing department works as much as we should. Atkins/So Council education, public housing issues. Lehman/Yea and as a part of that emphasizing that Tenant-to-Ownership and Dream Home program. I think that' s been one of. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 109 Atkins/Well those are policy questions that I think you can sort out (can't hear). But you need to have, but the Council's you need to be educated more on housing. That's important because that's, maybe that's somewhere where I fail because I haven't been able to. I remember writing that memo a couple years ago and you forget about them. Lehman/Doug and Maggie wrote it, it was really pretty helpful because that is so complicated. Atkins/OK. Connie. Champion/I would like to find a way to have some wonderful project to keep Iowa City Clean. Atkins/Clean. Champion/Clean. Atkins/All right a clean Iowa City, now tell me, can you just give me an idea so I know what your thinking about. Champion/Litter control. Atkins/OK. Keep City Clean. Champion/Sidewalk streets. Vanderhoef/Poles. Champion/Right. Atkins/Sounds like we're getting, all right we're getting an agenda real quick. Litter, trash, just you want. Champion/Junk. Atkins/Junk, what's the place to look there? OK. Champion/Because it's beautiful but it needs, it would not win an award right now. Atkins/OK Irvin. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 110 Pfab/I'm going to make, while your up there and Dale's over there, when I said City optic fiber to all residents I, that did not exclude businesses. Atkins/OK. Pfab/I mean that's. Atkins/It's a comprehensive problem so is what your talking about. Pfab/Right, so in other words people have access to the city and the city can communicate with everyone else. Atkins/OK. Pfab/A real real short ones, short term, get the dog's on the leash in Hickory Hill Park and get the snow removal ordinances. Atkins/Oh that's two, that's not, I don't think I can do that. Pfab/Just dog. (All talking). Atkins/Leash law is a question. Pfab/Leash law and then with that if you can, maybe try out a dog park in the Peninsula until development starts on a trial basis. Lehman/There's not a road out there yet. Pfab/Well that' s all fight, that's what some of the dogs. Lehman/Can't have the dogs off the leash (can't hear). Pfab/No, no, no. Atkins/How about this, Leash law, dog regulations and that will open the agenda then you'll have your crack at it with. Dee. Vanderhoef/Fully develop the airport park. Atkins/Airport, the north commercial area, OK. Vanderhoef/I call it airport park (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Cotmcil Work Session Page 111 Atkins/OK now, airport also has other lands available, is it just the north or just in? Vanderhoef/Well it falls under economic development but the airport and certainly to encourage the development of the private industrial park. Atkins/OK, well let's just put the, the airport offers a number of commercial industrial opportunities. So let' s take the broader definition and then you can narrow it later Oll. Helling/Proposing on the noah end of that? Atkins/No commercial park, north is the one that's going to be most current, because it's coming out. Vanderhoef/Because I will look at the south part because that goes with the future. Atkins/I understand that, I see where your going. Pfab/But isn't that really the derogative alternate airport commission? Atkins/They can't do a thing unless your willing to give them the money. They have no power to raise money. Pfab/All right they have no power to raise money but whose initiative is it to lay items on the table? Atkins/There's. Pfab/There's. Do we have a, if we sit in on one of their meetings, is it, the driving force is for them to bring something to the table because eventually that's going to be a money maker for (can't hear). Atkins/I will give you a quick answer, you'll likely get this next month anyway, it's on it's way because there's a committee meeting next week to get the plat to you. Steven. Pfab/No I would strong support that that's great. Atkins/OK Steven. Kanner/Be proactive in seeking citizen involvement especially people that traditionally discriminated against. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 112 Atkins/Citizen involvement, now I have a little trouble with traditionally discriminated against implies a guilt (can't hear). So I'm going to let you answer that. Kanner/Just to make sure, well I guess to put it in more positive to encourage a diverse input and that might translate into higher a community organizer. Atkins/OK, other, we'll get to that all right. But the citizen involvement component of this government is something that. Kanner/And diverse. Atkins/And the diversification of participation by those folks. Kanner/And why not proactive. Atkins/And proactive yea, we take the initiative. Kanner/Yea. Atkins/Got you. OK. Egore's doing a fine job over here. Wilburn/Egore or Eyegore? Atkins/Egore. Helling/(can't hear). Atkins/Don't say A1 Gore. Vanderhoef/Egore, Eyegore. Wilbum/I wouldn't say that one. It seems to me that there's been a couple ways that Iowa City has been highlighted, a place for senior citizens to be, that kind of thing. I'm wondering how we can capitalize that, this goes back to another economic development thing. Atkins/Oh, modern maturity has rated well, Forbes has us rated well, I mean those. Wilburn/I don't know if it's lifestyle type of thing that we can actively promote or capitalize. Helling/Retirement community (can't hear). Wilburn/Yea that type of thing. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 113 Helling/I mean not retirement community but. Atkins/Community promotion, but you specifically orient it to retirement. Is that what your saying? Wilburn/That's what comes to mind but it seems that there's been some other. Helling/(can't hear) for retirement community. Wilburn/Yea, yea. Atkins/OK. Wilburn/I mean if we're being recognized by different bodies that way then we should be able to develop that or take advantage of that. Atkins/Mike. O'Donnell/I would like to get into zoning so that we assure ourselves that we don't cluster transitional housing. Kanner/I'm sorry I didn't hear the last thing. O'Donnell/So we don't cluster transitional housing. Atkins/So zoning, you say clustering traditional housing. O'Donnell/Transitional housing. Atkins/OK, all right, so our question is our zoning regulations, your specific concern is. O'Donnell/The north side, we just addressed a problem up there and (can't hear) the correct zoning and. We agreed to do that. Vanderhoef/(Can't hear). Atkins/Well we also may make it higher priority. Vanderhoef/I want to. O'Donnell/I want make sure we do that. Atkins/OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 114 Vanderhoef/A friendly addition, the south side area that has perceived in previous years the same thing. O'Donnell/Yes, I'm talking the entire thing. Atkins/So, how about this, zoning, north side south side transitional/that's public housing your talking about, your talking north side is transitional. O'Donnell/I'm talking transitional housing specifically. I'd like more the neighborhoods have more input in what comes into the neighborhood. Atkins/OK zoning noah side south side transitional and public and then there' s a public participation component that your going to make a point. Lehman/Yea but I don't think I would identify that by north side south side. I think what we're having staff look at right now is a concentration of transitional housing group home blah blah blah as it affects the whole community. Atkins/Hey but Dee added public in a friendly amendment. Lehman/Right although I do think we're already looking at that, we've already decided that we don't want to concentrate public housing. Atkins/I think you have to put them both up there because I think their just as (can't hear). Lehman/That's fine. Vanderhoef/Their falling to the zoning I think is what' s. Atkins/But it's different strategies and I think they both have to be shown. Helling/(can't hear) scattered. Atkins/Put scattered transitional public housing. Ernie get up. Lehman/This is an easy one. Something I think I mentioned it last year but I think we should do it before budget time this year. I think we need to set up a boy I hate. Atkins/A committee. Letunan/Boy I was going to say commission. We get requests every year at budget time from the Iowa City Arts Council, from the Jaycees, from all those groups of folks, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City cot~ncil meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 115 now I'm not talking about CDBG money. But those other folks who downtown concert series we get I think the bike races, we get all these requests for money and we sit through here and go and decide which are the ones that are worth more than another. And I would really like to see us appoint a committee to recommend to the Council what those expenditures are going to be. We have public arts people (can't hear). Atkins/Community events committee. Lehman/Yes. Atkins/Stuff like that. Lehman/Something like that but I think they give it the kind of time it deserves. Atkins/Community events committee. Wilburn/For fund allocation. Atkins/Yea allocation of the budget. Now that doesn't, those that are done are sent it and my obligation by law is to recommend the budget to you. So it's a tool not only where I can set aside money and a budget recommendation but you also want this committee to recommend to you how that should be sent. Lehman/We've been set aside, for example, we gave $87,000 to events, and we budget $90,000, that's your job. Atkins/Got you. Lehman/The $90,000 goes to this committee then that has all these requests and tries to determine how they're figured out rather than Council trying to (can't hear). Atkins/OK, community events advisory committee of some kind, put a dollar sign next to it because money was clearly. Lehman/Funding. Atkins/OK all right good. Connie. Champion/Remember I got temporarily off by clean up Iowa City after I went to that state convention thing with Dee Vanderhoef and saw this spotless town where there wasn't a person around. Atkins/(Can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 116 Champion/And then Iowa City really looked at me. Atkins/There wasn't a human being in site. Champion/No, (can't hear) never saw a soul. Well the other day, on Monday, I went up to Northem Iowa for a funeral and I drove back through Waterloo at 5: 15 on this four lane highway through town and there weren't as many cars on it as there are on Summit Street. So I'm really concerned. Atkins/So where are we going with this? Champion/Maintaining our vitality of Iowa City which is, I just don't realize, think we realize how lucky we are on how vital this community is, you probably do but I don't think (can't hear) average this and (can't hear) so in order to maintain our vitality I'd like to see things like the cultural things downtown develop even further like the Englert Theater, the Arts Center Iowa City on the main floor maybe as part of the library when it gets voted in. But another thing is the development of that huge lot, whatever, I can't remember it. Atkins/641A. Champion/641A or possibly on the other side of Burlington with a hotel quote convention center. Atkins/That's a huge agenda is what your saying. Champion/Yea. Atkins/That's OK. Lehman/You just went Item 16 through 180. Champion/You know what I'm saying. Atkins/I think we'll have to put a little more meat on that one but I understand what your saying, it's a very very big item. Irvin. Pfab/One I think the city has to concentrate on what's going on in emergency housing and I think that we need to support that in any possible way shape or form that we can. Atkins/EHP greater city involvement, because fight now it's very limited. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 117 Pfab/Right, it's a badly needed under funded operation and I think it will solve a lot of other problems that the neighborhoods are concerned about. Atkins/OK. Dee. Vanderhoef/Definitely get our fire station built in the next three years and. Atkins/Number 20 is a fourth fire station, OK. Vanderhoef/With ambulance service. Atkins/Oh. Fire station and ambulance service. OK, fire station four and consideration of ambulance service which is we all know there's now a candy run operation. O'Donnell/I think that's a great idea. Atkins/OK. Lehman/It gets you all fire up doesn't it? O'Donnell/Well I can't support it with (can't hear) of our arterial street systems and we need that. Atkins/OK we'll get to that, give one more, Steven. Kanner/More affordable housing and this might be an and/or rent control. Atkins/Affordable housing. Vanderhoef/Are you saying city owned or public owned affordable housing? O'Donnell/When your speaking rent control. Atkins/Rent control is a process question. Kanner/Well you said (can't hear) public maybe you meant private. Atkins/You mean public private. Kanner/Either one I guess. Atkins/All right public and private. Kanner/Taking the lead, we are taking the lead. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 118 Atkins/(can't hear). Kanner/We are taking the lead but maybe (can't hear). And I don't know if rent control was something that the state legislature recently passed that. Atkins/We had, a, there was a bill. Kanner/A 100 cities from doing that but I don't know if that passed or not. Atkins/I don't recall it, I mean I recall it but I don't recall what happened. Kanner/It might be a moot issue. Atkins/We can find out. We had such an ordinance proposal, I'm looking at Marian, how long ago was that, an initiative. Karr/It was our first initiatives. Atkins/Back in the. Karr/80's. Atkins/Yea early's, late 70's. Karr/Early 80's. Lehman/What happened to it? Atkins/It was defeated. Lehman/Close. Atkins/I don't know. Karr/I don't remember. Atkins/But we can look that up for you, but it was considered at one time. OK. Ross. Wilburn/(Can't hear) like this has come up in a couple different ways, ways we can work with either county or with business or with business and computer type thing to develop to work to try and develop some more child care business. Atkins/Child care, as a business. How can we promote it as a city? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 119 Wilburn/How can we promote it as a city, how we can, whether that's trying to you know working with, you know we used to be called the Institute for Social Economic Development or trying to get. Atkins/A near south side project is going to create space specifically intended, now that doesn't mean we run it, but it's by policy your. OK. Wilburn/Right, trying to. Atkins/So it's a promotion thing, not suggesting that we run it but how can we get more of it. Wilburn/Right. Pfab/And I'd like you, can I add from the amendment to that to your suggestion? And that is which would also include care for sick children on a day that their sick. You know a specialized so. Wilburn/That's fine. Atkins/Is that acceptable to you? OK, we'll put specialized care, those are the. Pfab/It takes separate, different accommodations but they work together well, the hospital. Vanderhoef/It can be managed but it's (can't hear) space. Pfab/That space yea. Atkins/Mike. O'Donnell/One of my goals was to get Mormon Trek completed and through a collaborative project between Coralville Iowa City, the University. We're really moving forward on that. Atkins/OK the Mormon Trek project, that will take you all the way from I-Iighway 6 to Deer Creek. O'Donnell/That' s one and that's moving forward and I'm very pleased with that. Atkins/You want that up there on the list? O'Donnell/No I want Deer Creek up there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 120 Atkins/OK. Lehman/Can I ask wasn't there a report yesterday at JCCOG on that Mormon Trek? Champion/Yes. O'Donnell/And it's moving along nicely. Lehman/What's the time frame? O'Donnell/They, do you remember the time frame? Champion/No I can't remember. O'Donnell/I don't really think they spoke specifically of it but they had drawings. Champion/They didn't give us a time frame. O'Donnell/No. Vanderhoef/Well the Mormon Trek pieces is basically a three-year. Lehman/When do we start it, do we know? O'Donnell/I can't remember, they mentioned. Vanderhoef/The intersection starts this fall. Lehman/This year. Atkins/I have a chart on it. O'Donnell/At any rate, Deer Creek is transporting a lot of West High students and we had a very serious accident yesterday, it cost a young girl her life and another one is in very critical condition but I'd like to see us collaboratively get that done. Atkins/OK. Ernie. Lehman/This is going to sound like Pete and Repeat but we have got probably I was going to say one of, we've got probably one of the nicest downtown, obviously it's the best in the State of Iowa, it's probably one of the very finest in the entire country. We have got to address the problems that we have associated with the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 121 ped mall with behavior problems down there. And I know we're working on it but we are not experiencing a lot of success. Atkins/City Plaza. Pfab/Can you add, cover it with electronic monitoring? Lehman/All kinds of (can't hear). We just need to address the situation. O'Donnell/It's behavior. Atkins/Behavior, vandalism (can't hear). Lehman/Vandalism. Atkins/Drunkenness. Lehman/Yes, there's all kinds of issues. Atkins/Hassling people. Lehman/Yea, I mean I think we're trying to address but I don't think we've experienced a whole lot of success. Atkins/OK. Champion/Well I'll just continue with that because that's the next thing I had on my list and that is more police presence. And I didn't just mean in the downtown, you know this is a pipe dream. The other day an incident happened downtown and the police were called and 14 minutes later they still weren't there. I mean their busy doing other things, I'm not, I don't mean that a negative aspect. Atkins/I understand. Lehman/Yea you do. Champion/But these kids were. Atkins/A 13 minute response time. Champion/These kids were skateboarding all over the limestone, hitting it with their skateboard, leaping all over the park benches, that kind of thing. And you know we paid dearly for that, probably a lot more in a year than we would spend on a policeman's salary to correct it. That afternoon on my way walking from my This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 122 store to the ramp to get my car, the skate boarders were just all over the place and I went up to them and told them it was, they couldn't skate on the pedestrian mall and they kind of gave me some sassy thing and I said you know we're building a skateboard park and I said your giving skate boarders a bad name and then citizens don't want to put the money in a skateboard park and boy that really cooled them off. But sometimes it's just, it's urgent, I don't know if they mean to be destructive or they just don't have any respect for public property. I think a lot ofpeople's feeling about public property is you know it's. Lehman/It's free. Champion/It's free, it doesn't cost anything, and it doesn't cost anything, their not paying any taxes, anyway I won't go off. But more police presence and I thought about an idea of that like Hickory Hill Park and downtown, I don't know if there's some way of getting an auxiliary policeman, maybe our community officer's, if they can be empowered to write simple misdemeanor tickets, I mean maybe that. I don't, see I don't have any idea about the legality of that. Atkins/We have four service police officers. Champion/If I could stop them from skateboarding some male or woman in a uniform wouldn't have any trouble stopping them. Atkins/Yea. Champion/I mean they didn't give me any sass at all once I said you know your really giving skate boarders a bad name and one of them said oh my gosh she's fight and they quit right away. Pfab/Deputize her immediately. Vanderhoef/There you go. Atkins/Well you've got a specific concern for skate boarders but it's still the general. Champion/It's other problems too. Helling/City wide (can't hear). Atkins/OK, Irvin. Pfab/Is there a way to do a county wide combination fire ambulance? Champion/It's already on there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 123 Pfab/And police. Champion/Mike had it (cant' hear) it's already on there. Pfab/Yea but I mean not isolated, if you're going to go after go for the whole (can't hear)? Champion/It's in here. Kanner/So your saying more comprehensive, county wide. Pfab/Right. Champion/Regional fire safety district wide. Pfab/Right, ambulance and put the fire. Champion/The ambulance is already regional. Pfab/Yea but I mean squeeze them, put them all together, approach. (All talking) Atkins/Just wait a minute, yea don't, yea, don't bum an issue on yourself. I think Irvin that' s there you'll get a crack at that what you just said. Pfab/Slash ambulance. Atkins/I'm OK with that I don't see by anyone else. Pfab/Slash ambulance and slash law enforcement. (All talking). Pfab/I know it's the third rail but I'm not sure that it's. Atkins/I think we need to make that a separate issue attempt. Champion/That's a much more difficult. Atkins/So regional law enforcement, ambulance, fire, it's a little different yea. This one was implied, we have a number of volunteer departments, one full time paid department, how can we bring them together. I think there's like 11 volunteer fire This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 124 departments in Johnson County, something, I mean a number of some consequence. Regional law. Helling/(Can't hear). Atkins/Regional law, why don't you put regional public safety and show law enforcement, fire, ambulance all together then OK. Dee. Vanderhoef/This goes along with when we go through what Ernie was talking about with the housing authority and so forth but I'm looking towards expanding both the affordable dream home program and the Tenant-to-Ownership program. Atkins/We'll just say the ADHOP and Tenant-to-Ownership program expand them. That's an approach to affordable housing but your calling that out specifically something your interested in, that's fine. OK. Steven. Kanner/I'll see ifI can attach this to Ross's and do another one, if not that's fine I'll just use it, child care. I want to say specifically use economic development money for that. Atkins/Oh I don't think that's out of the question. Wilburn/That's fine. Kanner/Is that what you were thinking about? Atkins/I think that's a policy, yea I think you can have another one. When we go to talk about that specifically how to do it, I assume that's up for grabs. So you can have another one if you want. Kanner/OK. I'll throw out a livable wage, that's for all Iowa City employees whether temporary or permanent and anyone we contract with. Atkins/OK, two very distinct issues then, livable wage city employees, livable wage contracts. O'Donnell/Do you have a dollar amount? Kanner/What, it's been defined as bring a family of four above the poverty level so, with benefits so that would be $8.50 an hour plus benefits, or about $9.50 without benefits. Atkins/OK, those numbers sound about right from what I read about it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 125 Kanner/Yea it's about $15,000 or so a year. Atkins/Yep, yep, OK. OK I said four each, do you feel comfortable with what you have up there? (All talking) Pfab/No we're missing half of it, no I'm just joking. Atkins/We needed kind of a working list, are you comfortable with those? O'Donnell/Would that would be comfortable without putting the completion of First Avenue on this? I do believe an arterial street. Champion/I think we have already made a decision to do that. O'Donnell/Yea but if, but, this is a goal, well, part of my goal is that fire station and I'm not going to support it (can't hear). Atkins/Well that's going to get talked about Mike because what Andy has maintained I can't put a fourth fire station in unless I have the inadequate transportation system. Kanner/Well maybe we should put it down as a separate. O'Donnell/No, I think we've got enough. (All talking) Atkins/It's going to surface in the discussion, I don't think it (can't hear). Lehman/First Avenue is going to be a moot point if it's going to be on the ballot, I wouldn't care to spend (can't hear). Atkins/Well what I'd like to do now is just spend a couple minutes on each one of these so there is at least an understanding before you begin doing. And the person that raised it can talk about or certain perceptions. Noah Dubuque Street entranceway, Ross brought it up, any thoughts, opinions, this is not a vote, this is just talking it out and thinking if you have another wrinkle on it. Lehman/It could be a great time to look at that when we talk about that Foster Road intersection, the improvements done there, the stoplights and whatever. We, I guess we all know there's some interest in some of that property adjacent to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 126 Terrill Mill park, part of that is private, there's some looking at by the University at some of that property and. Vanderhoef/(Can't hear). Lehman/As long is this is priority with us we should keep it, you know keep it on the front burner as. Atkins/And folks I'm just jotting notes up there, that's Foster Road and other factors have a bearing upon that entranceway. What I'm going to ask you to do, your eventually going to have to pick these and I just wanted you to be able to, so you understood it. I liked this one. Vanderhoef/I don't disagree with with that, one of the things that I have wanted and had (can't hear) who consistently said Dee when are we going to get better lighting out there and we did do a little quick. Atkins/Fix. Vanderhoef/Analysis of it and I was just rolled over with what the cost was. Atkins/The cost was. Vanderhoef/To put the new lighting in there but I thought it would be so neat to have a consistent lighting coming down from the interstate down to Park Ridge or whatever. Atkins/One of the things you can always remember is when we're all done deciding this your going to send us back and this came back as your highest priority. I'm going to read that, I'd better put together the general frame of a plan to bring it to a work session for you all to send us on our way. So anything else about Dubuque Street entranceway? Champion/Well just think about, the University land, weren't they thinking of putting a parking lot there? Atkins/Yes, (can't hear). Champion/That's really objectionable. Lehman/No if you, the way you had it drawn you wouldn't even know it was a. Atkins/No, there was discussion for a 1,200 car parking lot off of the Taft Speedway generally in that area. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 127 Champion/Is it going to be a ramp? Atkins/No. Lehman/No. Atkins/Their going to surface. Champion/Surface that large of an area with concrete. Pfab/Asphalt. Arkins/Asphalt. Lehman/Probably there are more trees than there will be cars. Atkins/That's being discussed. Go ahead Steven. Kanner/That's in terms so students can warehouse their cars while their here I assume. Atkins/No my impression of it is that their going to run a shuttle system that' s going to be for employees. Kanner/What employees? Atkins/That's what I understand. Lehman/Commuter lot. Kanner/Well my. Atkins/That's a little off, it has a bearing on the entranceway, one if that happens your certainly going to have traffic signals, a whole bunch of changes because at 5:00 pushing 1,200 cars out of there is going to be a job. Kanner/I was going to say two things, one I was going to say work with the University especially in regards to Mayflower so it seems already the University is involved with this potential thing here but maybe we could tum it into a positive thing and working with them and how it could interact with Mayflower dorm there. And the other thing is that information kiosk is that the University's? Lehman/It's gone, I think it got taken, I just noticed the other day. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 128 Vanderhoef/That was CVB. Lehman/It may have fallen down I'm not sure. Atkins/No we took it down it was falling down. Lehman/It wasn't much work taking it down. Atkins/No it went over real quick, it was becoming an eye sore and our streets crew removed because it was about, it was dangerous. However, I sensed beautification, this is a traffic plan, land use, and I sense beautification is what you were talking about. Lehman/Yea but I think that' s also part of Foster Road and we do those intersections and how that's done certainly is going to have. Wilburn/Aesthetically. Lehman/Absolutely, and the lights obviously is aesthetics. Pfab/I have a question here, if we're talking about the University working on finding places to park cars, is there any reason the city, county and whatever are involved could move them out quite a bit out farther out of the city if there's going to be shuttle buses anyway. Atkins/First of all why would the city be responsible for moving the University traffic out somewhere (can't hear)? Pfab/OK is it, does it, would it work to also have city employees or safe for people to park and pick up a bus, a shuttle bus? Atkins/Not out of the question. I can tell you from experience that shuttle bus systems are very difficult to sell, unless you actually say you will not get a parking space which the University can do to their employees. Champion/OK. Atkins/North Dubuque beautification overall planning that's what I heard on that one. OK. Regional transportation, public transportation, paratransit, OK Mike. O'Donnell/Well I think with the number of cars we're getting I think regional transportation is a move we're going to have to look at down the road. The paratransit issue I'd like to expand more hours into the weekend, you know we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 129 used to have a trip to the Amana's, we don't it anymore, we used to have trips to Cedar Rapids, we don't have them anymore. Lehman/Why would we take our people to Cedar Rapids? O'Donnell/For meetings or whatever Ernie. Lehman/It's the whatever that I don't like. If we're going to pay for the system with tax dollars wouldn't we support the, the tax dollars come from the businesses where these people generally spend their money, why would we take them to Cedar Rapids? O'Donnell/Well the bus runs to Coralville too. Lehman/That's tax dollars that also pays for the system. O'Donnell/I don't have any. (All talking). Pfab/Is this something that fall into the agenda or should we call for the question? O'Donnell/It's right up on the board, that's why we're here. Atkins/So what Mike has put on the table is an expansion ofparatransit service. Vanderhoef/Within the city. O'Donnell/Within the county. Vanderhoef/What is happening today is the county is putting forward their proposal to expand regional transportation county wide and that being addressed at ECICOG and this. O'Donnell/I wasn't aware of that. Vanderhoef/This is something that the COG is responsible for anything outside of the city limits and where it will go and so forth I don't know, I see a need in there somewhere and how it gets put together I'm not sure but I think it may well come down from the regional because the counties around us also are seeing some additional needs. O'Donnell/Good. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 130 Kanner/I have some things to add to. Atkins/Yes please. Karmer/Just a common, Ernie I would like to think of it in terms of regional, outside of the county, I know there are people here that are in wheel chairs and really haven't been able to get out for years and years, it's very difficult and expensive and so it's something I'd like us to look at. Also. Atkins/Johnson County you mean? Vanderhoef/But that's what Johnson County is talking about doing the regional, it takes their citizens out of the city to the region. Kanner/And so I guess, yea I'm agreeing with (can't hear). Atkins/We have traditionally, I think it's a community, when we say regional, it's automatically Johnson County. Lehman/Right. Atkins/I mean that's the term we use. You're saying a little further than that and that's the note that I made actually, outside. Kanner/Yea and the other thing I wanted to add was look at it also in terms of land development. Atkins/OK you'll have to help me on that. Kanner/Well regional transportation, where do we want public or transportation to go and roads and where do we want them to go? It all fits into a puzzle of how we want to develop the land locally and as part of a bigger group. For instance the discussion about the corridor between Cedar Rapids and Iowa City. I think that's going to affect us and we're part of that discussion and we need to keep talking and especially in terms of regional transportation. Atkins/Big agenda. Vanderhoef/And that' s what I suspect will be coming out of the COG. Atkins/Mike's, Mike's was more focused, Steve's got real big, you bought into that one real big, the bigger agenda. Vanderhoef/The bigger agenda is where I see a possibility. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 131 Atkins/OK. Economic Development. Lehman/I think that's. Atkins/Help me with long terms, I think we all had an understanding of what you mean. Lehman/Well these are going to be things obviously that we'll be dealing as a Council as well as our own committee but I think if we're looking at the kinds of activities that we have over the years expected ICAD to do for us I think we are looking at something that we will partner with ICAD. Atkins/The committee will be getting a new draft agreement for a relationship with ICAD, that's your next agenda. Lehman/But I assume if we're going to be affective that part of our interest is going to be seeing more employers locate within Iowa City which could be translated into the availability of property, buildings, that sort of thing that might enhance folks to come here. We do have the noah airport which of course is down the line a little further. And we do have some property on the east side of town, but I think we have to be prepared to react to the possibility of folks, employers wanting to locate in this community and to try to entice them to come here. Atkins/OK that's a promotional aspect kind of thing. More employers to locate here you need available land, we're actually promoting. Lehman/That maybe Iowa City is a place to locate. Vanderhoef/So I would. Lehman/The other one obviously is (can't hear). Atkins/Can I use proactive? Everybody likes that word, I mean your saying go out and beat the bushes. Lehman/Right and the bottom one, the short term obviously those are issues that we're dealing with, we're living with right now, we've got to be prepared to in this case perhaps. From Sycamore's perspective it's a matter of reacting I think to the new Owners. Atkins/Well we started a new public process for this one, right? We have a private process under way for this one. Lehman/(can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 132 Atkins/This one's still kind of banging around. Lehman/But I think we need. (END OF 00-64 SDE 1) Atkins/Knowing the divergence of opinion amongst you. Anybody else want to add to that long term? Vanderhoef/I want to add a couple. One big piece for me is the this Council was proactive in supporting in the budget for some funding for economic development projects. I would like to expand that to funding for more of the start up, what I consider start up kinds of things and in that I would like to see policy that we set for our CDBG moneys that a certain percent whatever that might be will go into a revolving fund. Champion/Right, that's a great idea. Atkins/What's a great idea, the CDBG or the revolving fund? Champion/Yes, the revolving fund. Lehman/Both of them. Atkins/Both of them. Lehman/Same thing I think. Atkins/Not necessarily. Vanderhoef/It could be two different ones, there could be one that was only tied to CDBG moneys and one. Atkins/All fight, folks when I make these little notes when you kind of rank these things for me, that means you kind of want me to go back and rough up something that will give you a working, tell me how it works and I'll get it to you and then you'll, from there to there. Anymore long term opinions? Steve. Kanner/Encourage economic development, something to, I think it was Ross who said it, I read it in the notes, economic development for minorities. Atkins/(can't hear) minority business enterprise. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 133 Kanner/Minority business enterprises. Atkins/Your nodding your head Ross, is that what? Wilburn/Yea. Atkins/OK. Kanner/And (can't hear) with CDBG for low income. Atkins/Yes that would tie back to that, that's correct. Kanner/That is another class of. Pfab/Yea but I think while your on that line I think you also want to look at little mini mini develop ones. I mean. Atkins/Incubator, that's the term (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Start up. Atkins/Start up, I've got start ups. Start up I imply to be immediate (can't hear). Pfab/Does the University have dominance in this start up area, does Iowa City? Atkins/Personal opinion probably because they have Oakdale which they can offer virtually tax free, I mean it's tough to compete with Oakdale. Pfab/But is that, how does that help Iowa City? Have they moved any of their people into Iowa City? Atkins/No. Pfab/Is there anything to stop us from the city from learning from them and a smaller scale? Atkins/I think that, I don't think there's much we can learn because I think we know what we're against. Against sounds negative and I don't mean it to sound that way but the University has a large track of land fully serviced, publicly owned, they can make deals that we can't make. If you note, most of our investorial land is privately owned here in town. Pfab/Is there a place where we can do this? I'm thinking of little what is they call computer operator, web operated from (can't hear). Is there a place where we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 134 can? Dot com is what I'm looking for, dot com people or minorities, stay at home moms, you know people maybe. Champion/It could be stay at home dads. Pfab/Stay at home dads, fine, no problem with that. Atkins/(Can't hear) the answer is yes. Kanner/What you write does (can't hear)? Atkins/I wrote down incubator. To get businesses to start and often you need a small spot to get it started. Pfab/That' s where I see, you know eventually if we can get, these are going to be a lot more accessible, more possible as we start to get fiber optics hooked up. Atkins/That's a policy issue long term, I'm OK on that. I don't have any problem with that. Any other longer term? OK. Short term? Anybody want to add anything? I think we know sort of what our problem areas are. Pfab/Also I believe that if we hand out economic development grants I believe that we should be more concerned how the employees are affected and. Champion/It's already part of our economic plan. Pfab/No, no, no, I hear what your saying, but instead of throwing money at them and saying you do whatever you want say we'll give you X amount of money to do this for these employees that you hire. Atkins/I think our guidelines are pretty strict on that Irvin. Champion/We already have that in place. Pfab/Well one that bothers me a great deal, it seems to me, and I mean not have. Absolutely right is, one of the places was it said you had to average, had to average in pay for X amount of dollars. Atkins/Right. Pfab/So this entity comes in and hires four or five, 1 or 2 people at $100,000, a couple at $50,000, and $40,000. Atkins/I don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 135 Pfab/And the average looks pretty good. Atkins/The only problem your going to probably have probably is that some of those are going to be proprietary, I mean they'll sign an affidavit or a statement saying that our average wage is this. Could that happen Irvin I suspect it could. Pfab/Oh no, no, I know it did, so that's why. Pfab/So what I'm saying is if we're going to have, give, help the district out with money, say OK we'll help you provide service to the employees that you need so you have access to good employees. Kanner/It could be a minimum wage also along with the average. Atkins/There' s an implication of that and this still, I mean in principle we have thinking the same way, that's the way I read what you say. Champion/Do you know how (can't hear). Vanderhoef/And these don't necessarily have to be grants, they can be loans. Champion/Loans, fight. Vanderhoef/So their paid back. Pfab/All fight. Vanderhoef/A forgivable loan if they provide. Pfab/Yea, but I mean (can't hear) would say here OK here we'll compete with you of this long term if businesses progress, it works and it develops, there's going to be money spent for help, there's going to be for benefits and things like that, maybe child care, you know, we'll support that end of it. Atkins/OK. Champion/Well you know. (Can't hear). Champion/(Can't hear) I don't want to have a huge argument with you but I can just remember a time when Rockwell built their thing in Coralville, was it Rockwell? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 136 Atkins/Right. Champion/And I can't remember the guy who was head of Rockwell at that time. Atkins/Ron (can't hear). Champion/No that wasn't the name of (can't hear). Atkins/Oh the guy that ran the local plant. Champion/Mitchell (can't hear). It's been so long ago, that's probably been 15 years now. Atkins/That' s probably when it was built. Champion/Right, and I was a dinner partner of his and we were talking about women' s issues and he said, and I admitted many times, and he said oh your going to be so proud of me Connie because finally you know we're building this new facility in Coralville and we're going to provide day care and we're going to have this and we're going to have that. And I said that is really terrific, I'm really excited about that, and I'm really proud of Rockwell and he said, you know well we can do this because we can have some new job descriptions because we don't have to do what the union is doing in Cedar Rapids we can have new job descriptions. And I said oh that's fine, and so it mostly hires women and then I found out the next time we met the wages they were paying were pathetic, so I mean there's always a trade off. I mean you know there is a trade off, don't give me free day care. Atkins/OK. Champion/Give me a livable wage, and the other thing is you can't ask for a better demand from livable wages than you have right now because there' s nobody to hire, so competition is totally dictating what companies are going to offer to get you. You think you can hire somebody in this town to work 20 hours a week for a minimum wage your wrong, your not going to get anybody. Atkins/OK. Champion/That was my little spiel for the day. Atkins/Thank you very much, overloaded. (can't hear) we use livable wage, any other shorter term projects that you can think of?. Kanner/What about downtown, do we have to worry about downtown, empty store fronts. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 137 Atkins/Downtown. Pfab/I thought we had (can't hear). Champion/Well we have the kind of the preservation of the inner city. Kanner/Yea so I guess that would go with. Atkins/Yea that's, huge issues. If you want downtown added as an economic development (can't hear). Champion/I think we can include #4 under economic development, I mean that as an economic preservation, economic development. Atkins/What I'd like to do is if I could shorten the list I'm trying to accomplish that. Champion/I'd consider the down, the inner city of Iowa City I consider an economic development issue because it has a tremendous appeal when your bringing somebody from a small company here who's looking for a place to be. The place you want to take them is downtown and kind of our inner city which is still really in great shape and I think it is an incredible draw for Iowa City. I can't even tell you how many people mention it to me all the time who are from out of town. Atkins/One of the things that I know as my friends come and visit me, and I think you have the same experience, your friends come to visit you their first in town, where do we take them? Champion/Right, the downtown. Atkins/You don't drive through the subdivisions, they've seen those before, they may want to see the University because we have a unique institution. But I really believe that downtown is the focal point of this region and it has to project an image and that image I think on the surface is very positive. You know we have, aside to us we have to think about dealing with but I really believe the first thing that folks say is let's see your downtown. It happens with any city. Champion/It's our greatest asset. Atkins/Yea, I believe it is. Champion/I do believe it is. O'Donnell/Doesn't 6 go with three too Steve? Our labor force? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 138 Atkins/That's not what I read from you? Lehman/City work force. Vanderhoef/You can put a work force development piece into economic development. Atkins/(Can't hear). Vanderhoef/Our policy has not been to. Atkins/Can you hope, we'll jump ahead, I read budget in there just as much as analysis thing because we try to stay on top of our own work force profile. I know our employees are aging, I know they're having less kids, I mean we know those things because we're constantly studying that 600 full time people that work here. (Can't hear). Pfab/That reminds me, anybody see the article in the Wall Street Journal about how Merrill Lynch is handling their health care issues? It was three or four days ago, I'll see if I can find it somewhere. What they did they said you know if you need it we'll pay it and their finding that their health care costs are going down instead of, scheduling half a day of this and this and this and this, whatever you need we'll take care of. And their watching their health (can't hear). Atkins/Just so you know, if you looked at the budget very carefully, we had not raised our health costs for the last couple years and I think it's, a lot of it's management, some of it's good fortune, we traditionally have one catastrophic illness during the course of the year and that I measure that in the $200,000 or plus costs. Pfab/Is there ever a way that if they could have foresaw that coming? Atkins/No, at least I can tell you the circumstances and there was no way. Champion/I have a quick question that might (can't hear) here. It's obvious that economic development is a priority for a lot of this, maybe we could just quickly run through this list and see what else can go under that stuff category because certainly a lot of it is really economic development. Atkins/Well let me see if I can move it along then. Are we getting to chatty about each one? Champion/Yea, maybe. Atkins/OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 139 Lehman/I think so. man/I don't know if I'd call it chatty. Atkins/Fiber optics Irvin, put that on the table. Pfab/I believe that if we're going to be a cutting edge city this is one of the ways that we can do it and it also gives us a little bit more, we just watching the cable raise and raise our rates and then they're saying because their programs are costing more, but their buying from themselves, and they just mark it up. Atkins/I don't think it's out of the question, we could probably put together a fairly quick estimate on what it would, the capitol cost for fiber optics. Pfab/And then we want to get, at one point you could feed everybody, all the services you want for the same fiber optics. You don't need to go through the. Champion/And they would pay us for it fight? Pfab/Right, or lets say it's a service. Vanderhoef/A service, fight. Champion/Water. Pfab/But at the same time we know that everybody has it, if we, if the city wants to promote their agenda, their events, calendars, they know what to do with it. Atkins/Now I will argue with you philosophically, government control to the information network. Champion/Right. Atkins/That's a little. Lehman/Why would the govemment, why would we want the city to own it? Atkins/Well (can't hear) so it gets done, that's the way to get it done because we would all have the. Kanner/Savings for our citizens in the long run. Lehman/I'm not saying that that is (can't hear) but we could look into it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 140 Vanderhoef/Might. Kanner/But that could be the argument that one would make to. Lehman/Look and see I think. Atkins/But I know there are capital costs. Lehman/Yea where it hasn't worked but. Pfab/Other cities are doing it. Atkins/Oh yea, St. Paul I think tried it and lost. Champion/Who did? Atkins/St. Paul, Minnesota. Pfab/Well there's a city (can't hear) some place in Washington, they had changed their name for some reason. Atkins/City labor force, future projections. I put budget into what you were telling me, you just need to, our operating budget is severely limited, we all know that, that's not new news. Now we will ultimately have to expand public services. Vanderhoef/Right, and what I'm getting at is that if we look at the services that we are choosing to change or upgrade I'd like to look at the prioritization of those knowing that then the budget is only going to allow X number of new hires, new positions per year, but put it into perspective for the entire group rather than looking at it individual departments. Atkins/OK. I understand that. Public transportation, alternatives kind of a general theme if I heard from Steve. Kanner/Public bus pass, regional. Atkins/This is a whole. (All talking) Pfab/You go back to two. Kanner/Ties in somewhat with two and. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 141 Atkins/I think a lot of that got covered, we didn't talk alternative up here as much as (can't hear). Champion/That could be included. Atkins/Oh yea. Lehman/If that's going to be a transportation category then you really ought to add a railroad station to it. Atkins/OK. Anybody have any trouble with tossing at least railroad for consideration? Kanner/Got to beat Coralville for that. Lehman/Well we've got to be ready. Champion/If it ever happens. Lehman/It will happen. O'Donnell/If they could ever make it efficient. Kanner/Well the first step is happening this year. Atkins/Formal ways for youth to be involved in community, community development. Champion/That's an important way. Atkins/That's the real operative word is the kids, how can we get them more involved? Wilburn/Because there are time, I mean we're looking at city plaza addressing here, I mean your talking about young people themselves. There are some things that I think I am encouraged by you know the skate park is an excellent example. I even think just when you guys were on the simulations that bring the government classes in, you know I think that's a positive thing. But it ~eem~ to me that the other cities are tapping into youth input youth decision making into just the actual development of their city. And I don't know the form, what's the best format for Iowa City. Some places have youth counsels that are independent of the city but they make recommendations to their city, county that type of thing. San Diego is a place where they do that. They also got some people to put a trust in so that the kids actually allocate money to organizations that do programs, projects for young people. Some places like Waco, Texas, they run it out of their, it's kind of a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 142 commission but they run it out of their neighborhood services coordinator. So I don't know what the best format for Iowa City would be. Atkins/Well I've noticed, again so you all understand, when we're all done with these and I'm going to try to get a top 10 out of it, we're going to discard these other but I will send t hem back to the department directors with I need a think piece, give me some ideas on this think because then we can bring it back to you, if it doesn't make let's say the top 10 you at least have something to chew on and so I mean I'm trying to design a work program out of all of this. Irvin. Pfab/OK how many times did we ever ask the youth themselves how do we get? Atkins/Good process question, you're right. Pfab/But I mean in a sense. Atkins/The skateboard park was our most recent example and I thought we did a really really good job of getting those kids involved because it's a very small group of kids. Wilbum/Yea, yea. Atkins/Now at sports and athletics we have a lot more kids involved. Wilburn/Yea there was a group of social work students, as some of them were my students, they had the forum down at the library and one of the ideas that came, you were there Steven, one of the ideas that came up was. Atkins/What's that? Kanner/Yea a couple of yes were there. Wilburn/Yea you were there that's right. One, that's an idea that came up in a couple of the groups there was to have some type of youth council type thing for the city and/or the county. Atkins/OK. Pfab/Do we ever have a? Wilburn/That' s just another example. Pfab/What is it the, there's the state where you have delegates and. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 143 Champion/United Nations Day. (All talking). Atkins/Boys State and Girls State I remember that in High School. Pfab/What about here city, my granddaughter was in a class at Longfellow where they had they elected their city council and a little city government and served the third grade class. Atkins/We try, ours is an annual actually get the kids involved hands on, and the last couple years, and it's been a great success. I mean they just absolutely love, you know when a 17 year old kid saying it's really cool to drive a bulldozer out of the landfill I think you've accomplished something. Pfab/But it's the same thing with getting rocks thrown at me, that's why I'm saying get this information out, we have to go out and find these people, get the information to them. Atkins/OK you'll get your chance to sell yours. Pfab/(Can't hear) Atkins/Youth, youth involvement process, it's a process question, how can we do a better job of getting the kids involved in this government. Steven. Kanner/Yea just to follow up sort of what Ross and Irvin were saying, 14 1 think a component of that is youth, and possibly, being proactive in you said maybe under community neighborhood development that we have someone that maybe shares time with Parks and Rec. Atkins/Well one of the ideas I would have immediately is I'd like to turn this back to the neighborhood associations and say I see mom and pop all the time, I know you all got a boat load of kids. How are they part, I mean their part of this neighborhood too. And I think, I know that's one of the ways I think I'd toss it back to them. Vanderhoef/City plaza might fit in real nicely as something that you want some (can't hear). Atkins/I think it fits there but it's such a negative behavior I really don't want to mess, I mean this is something that's cool, positive, upbeat. Pfab/This was one of my criticisms, based on a criticism on the senior center, I think there is ways that they can reach out to the youth there and get a lot better This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 144 utilization of that, and that's why we will probably be at longer heads for a long time until something changes. Atkins/Two years ago at the town meeting I was asked that very question and I said encouraged the senior center particularly because of the space you have in evenings. Wouldn't it be nice for the seniors to have more involvement with the kids? Well that's when I did this too. Pfab/I mean, but I think at some point in time, most of the dinosaurs are going to die out so we have there's hope maybe sometimes. Lehman/What did you just say? (All talking). Pfab/That doesn't mean you have to be dinosaur thinking? Lehman/Are you saying that senior centers and animal house (can't hear)? Pfab/Well. (All talking). Atkins/Neighborhood associations. Kanner/Could you also, I think Irvin's maybe building usage could (can't hear) onto that which could include senior center and other spaces which could include schools, working with the schools more. Atkins/Good idea. Champion/Well I don't know, I think schools have enough going on. Atkins/Schools are the focal point of neighborhoods. Champion/Oh yea and (can't hear). Atkins/And it is the most underutilized resource in my mind. Champion/The building is. Atkins/Nobody (can't hear) a multi-million dollar building and only opened it from 8 in the morning till 4:00, nine months out of the year, it makes no sense. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 145 Pfab/Except for the senior center. Champion/The buildings are absolutely totally under used but what I'm saying is the school day itself is full. (All talking) Atkins/Is there a way that, this is not educational, this is involvement which happens to be educational? Vanderhoef/And community resource. Pfab/Is there a way that the city can lease space in the afternoon? Atkins/Absolutely, we do it, we do gyms now. Pfab/OK I mean in the sense that. Atkins/(can't hear). Pfab/Open up whatever, whatever it takes. Kanner/Coralville is doing, they are doing some child care programs that are running. Champion/Oh so were in Iowa City. Atkins/The county wide fire district. Pfab/Just as simple as it is. Champion/It might be cheaper. O'Donnell/There's not really a lot to go into this Steve, this is going to take some official. Atkins/Lots of politics in the thing. O'Donnell/To get together, but I. Atkins/It makes immense sense. Champion/And it's going to happen. Vanderhoef/Well this legislation is going to go through that one and the township. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 146 (All talking). Champion/And the volunteer become less efficient. Pfab/But the same time as elected officials we have maybe an obligation to hit that third rank. Champion/I think Steve's already talked about it with them. Pfab/And I mean just it's just, if we go away it dies, if we just have to keep after it, keep after it, and keep after it. Atkins/OK. Kanner/Steve, one thing to look at their the perception is that we are giving more to the surrounding communities than them helping us. Atkins/They give back. Kanner/But what I understand is it's the other way around. Atkins/I believe it is. Kanner/So that maybe that should be part of that perception. Atkins/Phrase that for me. Pfab/Enter dependency. Atkins/OK. I (can't hear) the give and take, I understand what your saying. Pfab/(can't hear). Iowa City (can't hear). Kanner/Whose better fitting now and who might kind of fit in a regional. Atkins/OK. Housing issues, council, I'll just prepare something in writing, give that to yOtl. Lehman/That' s just housekeeping. Atkins/I know that we had something that I remember was well received a few years ago and I'll just drag that out again. Keep the city clean, is that a program, a policy? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 147 Champion/I'd like a program established but it's, like I say, it's priority has been reduced for reason, you know we (can't hear). Atkins/Yes, well one of the things that I think the city of Des Moines actually has a program with boy scout/girl scout kind of troops. Sends them out, pays them 10 cents to tear things off of telephone poles, the utility poles. Lehman/But we could have somebody scratch their hand and they'd sue us. Atkins/Well. O'Donnell/I think adopt a sidewalk like you see on the highways. Lehman/Adopt a pole. O'Donnell/Adopt a pole. Atkins/You're willing to let this one go? Champion/I'm willing to let it go because I've tried working with it actually we have another downtown group now we're trying to work with it, but it's just a priority of mine but I don't want to see us waste time on it, because I think we have other more important things right now. Atkins/OK. Pfab/I want to go back to eleven Steve. Atkins/Yea. Pfab/What, how do you educate people who smoke cigarettes and throw the butts away? Champion/I don't know. Pfab/How, I think. Atkins/What a pet peeve, I've got the same pet peeve. Champion/Me too, and I smoke. Atkins/It's like OK government clean up my mess. O'Donnell/Gum is even more disgusting. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 148 Pfab/Is there any law? Champion/What? O'Donnell/Gum. Pfab/Is there any laws that can be? Atkins/Littering, I imagine you can get them for littering. Pfab/And is it something that we ought to maybe have a demo week or something where we ticket people? I don't know. Champion/The other thing is we need (can't hear). (All talking). Lehman/That' s the biggest problem is there aren't, I think most many many cigarette smokers would dispose of their butts in an appropriate fashion if there was a disposable place to (can't hear). Atkins/I wrote butt ordinance down there. Kanner/But did you hear also ash trays, more ash trays. Atkins/Yes, we have a number. Champion/Are they being used? Atkins/No. Well I mean they do but people still. Lehman/Yea but a lot of people wonder what they are. Atkins/I'm not a smoker so I don't understand that process. Champion/I saw one on fire yesterday. Vanderhoef/And all the flower beds seems to be the biggest. Atkins/Yea. Kanner/What? Vanderhoef/The flower beds. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 149 Atkins/What happens, you'll sit on the flower bed and it goes right behind you. Champion/Oh I do that too but I pick it up and then put it in the trash. Lehman/You pull the flowers when you do to I saw you. Champion/I, oh dam it. Kanner/And dispensing that (can't hear). Atkins/Dogs. Champion/That would be pretty low on my priority although I think it needs to be enforced. Atkins/Well, and Irvin has one point, it is the law, it's fight now. Pfab/(can't hear). Vanderhoef/And that's part of our labor force. O'Donnell/And Irvin you also mentioned Hickory Hill park, how do you enforce it in Hickory Hill park? Pfab/I'm sure it can be enforced if you go out and you don't get a lot of them but you get a few, and the word gets out. Atkins/The word gets out. O'Donnell/My question is how do you enforce it in Hickory Hill Park? (All talking). O'Donnell/It's basically, it's not accessible. Pfab/I understand, this makes it really interesting. I understand that the city decided to go out and put some people on some bikes and go out there and one of the first things that happened to them was they were told that by the people who had their dogs running that you know it's illegal for you to fide bikes in this park. O'Donnell/That's right. Atkins/I told you that and since got that taken care of. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 150 Champion/That's so funny. Pfab/The laws works for (can't hear). Atkins/The Director of Parks and Recreation has the ability to issue regulations on his own initiative and we can now go in the park, people complain but we can take bikes into the park. Lehman/Legal. Atkins/It's legal. (All talking) Vanderhoef/Thank you Terry. Atkins/But I mean (can't hear). Pfab/So then anyway just go out and enforce it and I'm going to go back and we talk about this poor little girl that took this one out there and she's been doing for a long time, she didn't think it was a problem, it wasn't her dog to start with and I think, now ifI run a red light and I have an accident I get hurt and I'm in the hospital, they still write me a ticket for running a red light. Atkins/We will do that, (can't hear). Pfab/Pardon. Atkins/And pin it to your cast. Pfab/Right, or whatever, and but at the same time I've never liked the people when they used to ticket me for speeding, but I look back at the years I'm probably alive because I got tired of paying the tickets and so I decided that I would stay alive and (can't hear). Atkins/This one's (can't hear) unless you tell me something different. Champion/Wait, wait, wait, we want to ask a silly question. My first silly question. Atkins/That's your second silly question. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. Ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 151 Champion/If we can get meter maids, to give citations to illegally parked cars, let's, why couldn't we have the equivalent of the meter maid, or parking enforcement whatever you want to call it. Atkins/Parking monitor. Champion/Right, why can't we have a park monitor who could issue citations for a dog being loose? Pfab/You can, and then in the winter time they'd come and do the sidewalk. Atkins/We can't. Kanner/And again as Dee said. Champion/And then it could take the place of a policeman. Kanner/It says a labor issue too. Champion/Yea sure it is. Kanner/We'd have to think about that. Atkins/OK. Vanderhoef/Go ahead and talk about it if we talk about labor. Atkins/Nobody said not to enforce this, we can get more aggressive and it's. Kanner/Two things, one it's been found positive reinforcement is successful and I think the city actually tried that with some downtown things a year, a couple years ago about giving out certificates to people. Atkins/Oh, good behavior certificates. Kanner/Good behavior. Atkins/Pizzas and hamburgers and we used to do that yea. Kanner/And so studies have shown that that's more effective in the long term than negative punishment, might have to do both but so we might consider some sort of positive reinforcement for people that are on leash for that dog. Champion/Good idea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 152 Vanderhoef./That's fine. Atkins/Good idea. Kanner/And along those lines, I think we're doing this but make sure those people who all came here and spoke needing for their dogs to run around. Atkins/Dog place. Kanner/They seem like their willing to compromise and make sure that their in this collaboration in discussing this and I think I read that they are involved. Atkins/Yep. Kanner/But make sure them and Hickory Hill, Friends of Hickory Hill that were deliberate in putting them together along with Parks and Rec. and I'm pretty confident that they would come up with a good solution because they all seem want to have something that everyone can live with. Atkins/OK. Pfab/OK and again somebody mentioned about the dog park and I don't know where every is on it but it's, well somebody said why don't we try it, without a fence. Lehman/That's got to have. Pfab/And then somebody said why don't you try it out on the peninsula until we start doing some development. Lehman/It's going to come to us, we're going to get a recommendation from the commission. Atkins/Yea it's on it's way, it is on it's way, I don't know when but I know it's on it's way. Pfab/And somebody said well that's a way to try it, just out at the peninsula. Arkins/Airport north commercial park, private development, the whole airport. Lehman/Economic development. Champion/Economic development. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 153 Atkins/I think it is to, number three. Pfab/Isn't that in one of our most immanently productive places? Atkins/Yes, it's on it's way, again your going to see this. Pfab/But also it's a place where we can develop quickly and get on with it? Atkins/Yep. Seek citizen involvement, more proactive effort on the part of the government, diversity being kind of an underlying theme for our involvement. Of course it's tough to argue no against that. Lehman/Not always the better question. Atkins/Yea. Champion/I think we have a tremendous amount of citizen involvement (can't hear). Atkins/Remember I sent you a recent memo to kind of give you an idea of some of the things and I meant it respectfully this morning in a sense that the participatory democracy process is really very important to the success of governments in a modern age, there really aren't rules and how you get involved and I think if we're going to do this and I think personally happen to agree that I think we should be doing it, if we make the effort we're immediately involved. Does the spontaneity of involvement go away. One of the things I felt very strongly about on the Broadway project, I'm going to propose to you the way I did, just get out of their way, they'll come and see us soon enough. But let's them address the issue. Is that government involvement in our government I happen to believe so. Steven. Pfab/I think brought Steve brought up a good point that we can work (can't hear) what about positive reinforcement for people who get involved? Atkins/Positive reinforcement, OK. Pfab/In the sense of OK maybe on a weekly, monthly basis we award, issue an award or proclamation to somebody for doing a something, a project and really go out and each one of us look for people who are doing something that is important, really really important. Atkins/What about the guy that saved the guy on the train? Pfab/I mean there's, there's I mean there's a lot of things. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 154 Atkins/One of our best programs is that student government I know Ernie really likes it to and that is a fun thing to be done because those kids are thrilled, I've never had anybody say anything other than positive things. But Steve what was your idea? Kanner/Well for an example, the PIN grants, it's a good program for putting money in for local control and we have neighborhood involvement but we might need to go farther and saying that perhaps we have to have staff time, it goes into neighborhoods and talks to people who aren't hooked into these associations and the core groups and say what's important to you and some people need a little encouragement or just to let them know that it's there. The Pheasant Ridge neighborhood center, they had the consumer leadership team, they had a person come in from Des Moines, an organizer came in and worked with these folks. Sometimes things happen organically and they just come up but sometimes people need some assistance in some ways and there's all kinds of folks that talk about this and books and other things and that's where I'm coming from that we can be more proactive, that we should be proactive, that would be my argument. Atkins/OK. Wilburn/I agree that there are times when the city can facilitate some of those things happening. I think that it's important to recognize that there are some places where I don't think the city can be as affective at facilitating or in some cases mediating, I don't think, I don't look at the City of Iowa City and staff as mediators. I mean you know your talking about the group that had the outside person from Des Moines coming, that's a, on the state level a community entity, similar to Broadway center kind of facilitating that down, you k now in the Broadway area. Kanner/Well it was a private organ., private non profit organization. Wilburn/I know what it was because that group here is replicated in the Quad Cities and I helped them come with the action plan to do what their doing so but that's an outside, I think it's important to recognize that there are other groups that may have expertise and just their role is can be their better equipped to mediate or facilitate, I just think it's important to. Kanner/Well the idea is that we would whoever we're working with would have expertise in this area, it's not like we're just going to say someone your doing this go out and do that, it's if we put dollars, budget dollars into a position at half time at someone who 's trained in the art of organizing which entails a lot of different things which means listening to people and see what they want and teaching techniques that empower them so I don't think it's your just plucking someone out in the city quote unquote and putting them in the situation, your doing in the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 155 traditional sense of organizing which means listening to people and working with leaders in the community and doing what they want to do. Wilburn/And all I'm saying is recognize that there are other groups that are capable of doing that without. Arkins/Difference of opinion. Wilburn/Yea. Atkins/The issue is greater involvement, by our citizens, we need to take the initiative, pathologies will give you ideas and you can work those things through on your own. The idea is that's what you want to see done. Wilburn/Sure. Atkins/This is sort of a never ending process, this is a. Here's what I want to do is I want to finish going through these which should only take about another 15-20 minutes and then I've got a it's a very short prioritization process, confirm that and then the floor's going to be open. Lehman/And then we can be out of here. Atkins/10 minutes. Lehman/All right. Wilburn/Sounds good. Atkins/Way to go, 15. Kanner/City Council it's Steve. Lehman/Why don't you mark that #3 because that's huge. Atkins/That is huge I know. Lehman/lilut it's also number 3, part of economic development. Atkins/Well. Kanner/Well. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 156 Vanderhoef/OK (can't hear) that issue came up one time during a council election and it was a question from the senior citizens themselves. And there was some talk about having a speakers group out of the senior center group to go out and let people know what was available in Iowa City which was promoting exactly what we are talking about here. So that's one idea I would throw out to send it back to the senior center for possible action. Kanner/And it could be perhaps economic development. Vanderhoef/Yes it could. Kanner/For a little money, if we're going to send people maybe to a convention or something to send this senior along with someone else perhaps. Pfab/Well we will get our distinct senior center award and we can chuck that along with it. Vanderhoef/Well this comes along with health services. Atkins/Are you OK, I'm saying send it back to the commission and ask them if given the task how would you promote Iowa City as a place for seniors. Lehman/That's a good idea. Pfab/(can't hear) 16. Atkins/Thank you. Part of this is under way, public housing, that's you've got to help me on that one a little bit, I understand the transitional because of the discussion we just recently finished. What did you have in mind on public housing? Vanderhoef/Well public housing in our city steps plan plan is to make sure that it's mixed throughout the city. And we do we can be real aware of, I guess where it comes in is perhaps in the other funded kind of things, some of it comes through the HUD and through the public sector and how we approach that with zoning. Atkins/Let me lob this back in your lap, a couple of you will remember this. Rohret Road and off Dubuque and Dodge, both of which were projects for affordable subsidized housing. What happened? The neighbors tumed out, now if we're going to talk scattered housing there's a lot of political curve that goes with that so just keep that in mind. Lehman/That North Dubuque, that Dubuque Road project though, that and I was on the council when we decided that but that was decided by the time we got the density This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 157 where it was appropriate for the zoning it was no longer feasible for affordable housing and that at least from my perspective and the council' s perspective, less affordable housing as much as there was density. Atkins/It didn't lay that way on the street though. Champion/Sure it did. Atkins/I don't think so. Champion/I remember reading about that I was not on the Council at that time. Vanderhoef/I wasn't either. Champion/And it was like 60 units which is a lot. Atkins/I'm just telling you how it played on the streets. Champion/I was the street. Lehman/She was on the street, she was (can't hear). Atkins/The issue was all I did was scattered, I just, I understand fully the policy, I understand fully what your intent is, I just feel compelled as your advisor to say it takes a lot of political courage sometimes to do these things. Pfab/But maybe that's where you develop your political muscle by practicing on some of those. Atkins/Sometimes you do. (Can't hear). Kanner/One suggestion I think we probably do some sort of decent job in promoting positive things but maybe we need to do more as far as going out into a neighborhood and letting folks know that this can be a positive thing, at least it's not a bad thing. Atkins/Out of that debate came a discussion of fair share and we talked about it informally and the Council retreated because we were going to try to go to the neighborhood associations and say look, here's how we view this. Well it was the associations quite frankly that turned out opposing it. Vanderhoef/And we just had this and it's coming at us right now on Dickerson Lane. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 158 Atkins/Yep, and that's only a couple houses. Vanderhoef/That we had, (can't hear) how many houses are we going to put on this street? Atkins/That's also a southeast Iowa City argument too where those folks can legitimately say we've done our fair, go somewhere else. Pfab/Are you talking about Dickerson Lane? Atkins/Dickinson Lane? Pfab/I think there's another issue there, and I think there was a sloppy developer there and what it did is he took the same house plan, put one across the street and that was which was stupid on that, to make that move because it certainly wouldn't have cost anymore to do a little different plan. Atkins/We have our development code under review fight now, in fact were the person we hired is talking to local developers about that. Some of those issues will probably surface through that discussion. This one requires a legal and planning research transitional, Karin and Eleanor are already on top of that. This one, I've always understood what your policy is to scatter it, making it happen is another thing. Pfab/I think there's another way to make that work and that is to be a little more cognizant of how those houses that are out there are being operated. Atkins/Yes. Pfab/I think in a sense that, whoever is managing those has to maybe tighten up to control. Atkins/Your correct Irvin and your going to see that as an issue coming out of Broadway clearly their not happy with the management. Pfab/And basically management is getting paid to do it and their just taking the money to the bank and not, and so I mean. Atkins/That issue will surface. Pfab/And I mean they should be held accountable and I think to let them off the hook is just wrong. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 159 Atkins/You'll have your crack at them because it's going to come up. Lehman/Steve if I'm not, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that in city administered housing we don't have the problems that your talking about. Atkins/No. Lehman/I think that we are very strict in (can't hear). Pfab/Oh I agree. Lehman/Our tenants are. Atkins/It's the other. Lehman/We are very good landlords. Pfab/No, no, I'm not saying that, I'm saying whoever, the landlords that take the rent and don't maintain their property, I have some very first hand experience on a number of that and I know if you take the rules and you follow, somebody gets out of line you nail them, the word gets out pretty fast and they straighten up pretty fast. Atkins/Well your going to hear about it. Lehman/Wait a minute, one other question before I go on. Are there any restrictions or regulations on landlords who receive who accept vouchers, in other words will take subsidized families, are there restrictions on those that vary any differently from someone who takes families who are not subsidized? Atkins/From the best of my knowledge they are not standard party different. They are not sufficient. Now our inspection standards are higher. Lehman/If I take a voucher. Atkins/Our inspection standards are higher. Leh-nan/How could they be? Pfab/Your subject to inspection once a year or something. Atkins/Yes. Lehman/Instead of once every. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 160 Champion/Every other year. Lehman/All fight, all right, but I'm just saying that I'm not sure that, well we'll look at it another discussion. Atkins/OK I got your read on this. Kanner/Your not, Ernie could you finish that? Lehman/No I'm not sure that we, that if we're going to be using public money to for apartments that we couldn't hold them to a little higher or at least, we are holding them to a one year. Atkins/Oh I believe we do. Lehman/Annual inspection, but I do think that may be appropriate. (All talking) Lehman/We can't get them to take vouchers anyway so we give a higher standard and they aren't going to rent to people with vouchers so you can't win on that one. Pfab/Well at the same time does the leases? Who determines what is in the lease if you knew a rent about? Atkins/If you've got a voucher, there's federal regulations. Pfab/And those regulations are pretty severe. Atkins/Yes. Pfab/If the tenant screws up their out of there and so but their obligation to the tenant is pretty strong, I don't know what obligation is to the landlord. Atkins/Well whatever those regulations are I do know that the inspection standard is high, their permitted to take deposits. Pfab/And if there's a conviction or. Atkins/Criminal activity. Pfab/Out they go. Atkins/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 161 Pfab/And you know, I don't, but at the same time then do they have an empty apartment, does the lease? Atkins/Generally that doesn't appear to be a problem, I think we have sufficient. Champion/That's our control we have over renting it. (END OF 00-64 SIDE 2) Champion/(Can't hear). Arkins/Oh of course, it's huge, diversion. Lehman/I just think we should do. Champion/(Can't hear) too, I think we should just take it off the list and do it. Pfab/Well (can't hear) OK now but where just downtown? Champion/No, no, we're talking about all that money we give all those groups that come to us for money. (All talking) Pfab/I was off track, just go on (can't hear). Champion/I think it's a great idea. Kanner/And maybe if there up to it the neighborhood association with perhaps the Downtown Business Association, the group to do that so we empower them even more by giving them another budget. Atkins/You could call upon them to make appointments to the thing. Champion/It would be, we do it like they do the United Way. Atkins/I don't know yet. Lehman/I don't care how we do it I just think we ought to do it. Champion/Yea it would be a great idea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 162 Atkins/Assume you help me figure it out but that's what you want done. OK. Maintain the vitality. Champion/Well that's part of economic development, can't we move that up there I mean just to keep the vitality of the downtown which is we've already all agreed that's one of our great economic draws. Pfab/Point to number 3 is that what your saying? Champion/Yea. Atkins/What we'd do is. Lehman/I do think though that while we're at it we, I believe that we will see an, someone approach within the next year or so with a proposal for 641A. Champion/Terrific. O'Donnell/Two proposals. Atkins/Yea. Lehman/(Can't hear). Atkins/One of them may be student housing and I would encourage you to be very cautious about student housing on the plaza. Kanner/You mean owned by the University? Champion/No I think it should be for commercial. Lehman/Well we're going to get a chance to look at it I think. Atkins/Emergency housing, city involvement. Lehman/What is the cities involvement at this point? Atkins/We throw a few bucks that way under our aid agencies but other than that it does it's own thing. Lehman/They, emergency housing raises their own money? Atkins/Yep. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 163 Pfab/And what they do is basically it's a public service, their under funded, their location is not good, it's causing trouble in that neighborhood, they need definitely more space. O'Donnell/What do you mean it's causing trouble in that neighborhood, what kind of trouble? Pfab/That is your, that's where the big, that was what's causing most of the problem of people saying there's too much of that housing in that area. O'Donnell/Your talking trouble because of the specific housing not trouble created by the house in there. Pfab/No it's the people that wander through the neighborhood and make the neighbors uncomfortable. It's not that their unlawful but that, and especially when it's full and they just kind of wander around and their full most of the time. Atkins/It has to go somewhere, however. Pfab/And so they head that way, they come this way, come that way, this neighbor sees them coming down, and if they don't get a place then they see them going back. And you know their not, their perceived as, their perceived as dangerous people but isn't that their dangerous it's just that their. O'Donnell/Their poor. Pfab/They make the neighbors uncomfortable. O'Donnell/Irvin it's not the housing itself, it's some of the acts that we're making the neighbors uncomfortable is what I remember. It's the retired professor at the University that was attacked in her garage it's, it's stuff like that that made the neighborhood, these people in this north end are not objecting to this type of housing, and they certainly have their share of it and my whole point is are you doing anybody good including the people using the housing if you cluster it all in one area. Lehman/We're not talking about clustering. O'Donnell/I know that but that's all part of this Ernie it's. Vanderhoef/Well and it's behavior and how to change the behavior, it's just like the city plaza, we have a certain kind of folks that get the plaza and we have folks who go out into that neighborhood because of housing and it's the behavior that happens. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 164 Wilburn/I understand your, I share your concem about you know some of the conditions just in operating the facility. I think they also need to take some responsibility applying for funding that is currently available. Pfab/You think their not (can't hear). Wilburn/My understanding was that they, what we didn't give in, we didn't get a application, it was a timing, they missed the deadline type of thing was my understanding. Pfab/OK all right. Wilburn/For the CDBG funds. Pfab/That brings up an interesting thing, apparently a lot of the problems that we're having down in the ped mall area is skate boarders. Champion/That 's part of the problem. Pfab/Now is, can we anticipate that as the skate boards get finished that we will not have that much of a problem? Champion/No. Lehman/No more so as to relieve Hickory Hill park. Vanderhoef/But we still have the drunkenness, the disorderliness and some of the other kinds of behaviors that are down there. Pfab/I think what we ought to do is take this little camera that's right down the hallway by the rest rooms and just put it down at about that level and just let it move around. Champion/The police did that a couple years ago. Atkins/I think we did. Vanderhoef/The point I guess I have with emergency housing and our aid to agencies there's no doubt that emergency housing could use more funding but what we have set aside for human services through our aid to aid agencies is this one anymore needy than any of the others that are being funded? If so then do we need to have a policy that says were going to concentrate on say a half a dozen agencies versus all of them, I mean there's lots of ways that you can look at it and it's a matter of splitting up the dollars that are available. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council~ meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 165 Pfab/The limited dollars. No I'm not saying that it's anymore important but I think it is one of things that's driving the uncomfortableness up in the north area, north end. OK. Atkins/Your saying you want to give it some attention, we haven't decided at what level. Lehman/When you say increase city involvement could part of the city involvement be some sort of regulations, I mean I don't know how this is even run but if the problems associated with emergency housing are relative to the kind of people that are staying there I would not be interested in helping to fund that situation at all until there is some control over the type of behavior that takes place in the facility. Pfab/In the facility it's fine, if there's a place, if you can get the people in there, it's fine, it's the ones that try to get there and then they get there and there's no space. And is that the right location? They've outgrown it obviously and. Atkins/They have outgrown it. Pfab/And I'm not sure that that's the neighborhood they should be in and I think to help find a place someplace to do it. Kanner/Yea I don't know if there are anymore problems there than let's say a fratemity in the neighborhood. Pfab/Oh probably less. Kanner/We haven't seen any statistics that say there are more problems from there. But I think there is a problem of a greater need and one of the things for this issue and maybe more in general is we could go to Coralville for instance and ask for more cooperation from them. Because apparently this is the only emergency housing for homeless folks in the area and it's. Atkins/Coralville. Kanner/Coralville has a very low capita commitment to human services. Atkins/That's an understatement. I'm sorry. Vanderhoef/(can't hear) that one. Kanner/So I heard. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 166 Atkins/So you heard. Kanner/So maybe we need to work more with Coralville and a solution could be a little matched what your going to give in addition for the new homeless shelter that their planning. Atkins/OK. Champion/They're planning one. Kanner/They are thinking of a new. Champion/Coralville is? Kanner/No, no, no, the emergency housing. Atkins/They need a new one, a new spot. Champion/Oh. Kanner/And they're looking at land fight now and their looking at a bigger space. Lehman/I would hate to see emergency housing give be singled out from the many, many human service agencies that we have for any more special treatment that some of the others without evaluating all of them. Pfab/OK, let me ask a question, and I don't know the answer to this. Are they getting a fair share? Lehman/I don't know that either. That's why I say you've got to look at everything. Pfab/OK I don't know either. Yea, yea, I know. O'Donnell/It is a fair share. Pfab/I'm just saying it's something that it makes the neighborhood people uncomfortable up there, it's a need that's not being fulfilled, and people are crowded in there like sardines. Lehman/But I think you could also use that same, those same terms for several local agencies. Pfab/I'm not saying. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 167 Atkins/If you've never toured it, I encourage you to go see it. Vanderhoef/Yep, it is, I did that last summer. Atkins/Go see it. Vanderhoef/If the commission does drive around again this summer like they did last summer I would encourage all of you to go and see some of the facilities just as they are in operation. Atkins/OK we've got to move. Folks want to. Champion/We're going to do it. Lehman/Well I think that's got to be a high priority for these things now. Arkins/Ambulance, whole new (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Talk about, yea. Lehman/We talked about the fire station being able to accommodate. Atkins/And we can do that. Lehman/And ambulance, but not our ambulance service, we didn't say that. Champion/Right. Vanderhoef/No. Lehman/I don't think we're saying that now are we7 Atkins/I don't know. Vanderhoef/I was not saying that, I'm just saying that this is. Champion/Ambulance space. Lehman/Ambulance space. Vanderhoeff Thank you that is what I intended to say. Lehman/We also talked about making it neighborhood center space. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 168 Kanner/Before we ahead with this I'd like to put a lot more effort into the regional proposal. Champion/That will happen, Steve's already working on that, that's not going to change that. Lehman/That isn't going to change the need for a fourth fire station. O'Donnell/That will not change the need for something on that end of town. Lehman/That's response time. Kanner/Well I think location it has to do with location ifit's a regional one and monetary support so. Atkins/So you know I did propose that very idea, in fact we proposed a joint response, we proposed automatic response, we got nowhere with Coralville, just so you know. Pfab/That was before we had a new chief though. Atkins/That's correct. Pfab/So I mean I think that's probably a whole new era now. O'Donnell/The chief should, the chief has nothing to do with it Irvin. Vanderhoef/It's their policy. Pfab/No but at least you've got somebody to go talk to. Kanner/Yea, that's right. O'Donnell/Same council. Champion/It's going to happen, it's going to happen. (All talking). Lehman/Steve this fire station, am I correct? We are, are we talking about the east side of Iowa City? Champion/Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 169 Lehman/For the fourth fire station? Vanderhoef/The fourth fire station. Lehman/OK the reason I ask that I don't know what that would have to do with Coralville, they can't service that area anyway. Atkins/Well, right there, that was the general idea, the First Avenue thing we'll have a decision on that. The idea was that Emerald Street is not well situated, in fact we did some timing and when they do have crews in in Coralville they can be in Manville Heights faster than we can. Lehman/In Manville Heights. Vanderhoef/Yea, oh sure. Lehman/Oh yea. Pfab/Not from the Emerald station. Atkins/No from the Coralville station, we can get there and yet we can serve other parts of their community. Vanderhoef/We can serve University Heights so much faster but they contract with Coralville. Atkins/No. Champion/And we can serve parts of Coralville. Atkins/Coralville, (cant' hear) the only way to University Heights is Mormon Trek. All you need is something turned over on Mormon Trek, blocked, there's no access in the University Heights without going around the barn. Pfab/And of course that's when the mutual aid works. Atkins/Mutual aid works. Vanderhoef/Well likewise with some of the townships that are out there too in the southwest. Lehman/Well that's obviously a priority. Atkins/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 170 Champion/Yea. Pfab/I think that' s a very high priority of the regional. Atkins/You'll get a chance to vote on it in a few minutes so set what your priorities would be. Affordable housing, two issue, two piece of affordable housing, we have, I mean, historically we've had a policy of attempting to pursue that. I do mention here that's an affordable issue. Champion/(Can't hear). Atkins/And then the element of. Pfab/That's been hit someplace else. Atkins/Rent control was not. Champion/No but affordable is, wasn't there another thing up there about a city (can't hear). Pfab/10, number 10 maybe. Atkins/Well it's here. Lehman/Number 16. Atkins/It's here. Lehman/(can't hear) it's at 16. Champion/16 yea. I thought Dee had brought up too about. Lehman/She did, location of. Champion/City, no also she brought up. Vanderhoef/City labor force. Champion/No you brought up the two dream home and. Vanderhoef/Oh yea. Atkins/It's over here, 27. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 171 Champion/So that really is part of that, aren't those the same, in dealing with the same issues affordable housing. Atkins/I believe this and this are the same. Lehman/Yea. Atkins/Rent control is a different issue. Lehman/I have no interest in discussing this. Pfab/I don't think that's going to work. I think that's, rent control is just a total dead end. Champion/But certainly we could count on 27 and 21. Vanderhoef/Without the. Champion/Without the rent control. Kanner/Well one thing I, the affordable housing encompasses the other things we said but rent in general is something, partially because there's zero vacancy rate for certain types of apartments. It's an issue and we have to I think find a way to make it a bit more affordable, it's (can't hear). Lehman/Well I think that same reasoning then would say when you have no labor force available you'll freeze the wages at the old rates and no one can make any more money just because and you can't find any workers but you'll pay the old salaries, that's a matter of supply and demand, that's not. Kanner/I think it's a different kind of thing Emie. Lehman/What's the difference? Kanner/I think because shelter is a big necessity and if you pay people more actually it's better for the economy, it benefits more people. Lehman/Pay more rent, it benefits more people. Kanner/What? Lehman/There's more money in the economy, they spend more, there's more jobs. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 172 Kanner/Actually it doesn't, it goes into smaller amounts of hands, it's a different type of economic development. Higher wages is a good form of economic development, and it helps the community a lot more. There's numerous studies that show that Ernie. Lehman/I don't think there's anything that shows that rent control has been really effective though. New York's got that and it's been a source of tons of problems. Kanner/Oh it's actually great benefit to many people. Lehman/And it's also a tremendous (can't hear) to a lot of people. Kanner/What? Champion/I don't. Kanner/People who are rich don't benefit from it, but I think people who are lower income. Vanderhoef/Strike it, strike it. Champion/You know I would disagree with you because I think they. Kanner/Well we're not striking it were just I thought we're voting on things. Atkins/You will. Kanner/I guess it won't be voted on. Lehman/I think it just got voted on. Atkins/No, no, no, Steven's right. Lehman/Yea. Atkins/You'll have a chance, but do you want to mix, what I'm trying to do is you want these two together. Lehman/Separate the two of them. Vanderhoef/Separate them. Atkins/Separate them. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 173 Lehman/Yea. Vanderhoef/So rent control gets a different number and then you can combine 27. Atkins/Oh I don't like that (can't hear) this is not good, here we go. Rent control remains but I've got to get rid of this and leave that along because this is rent control affordable housing, this is Tenant-to-Ownership affordable housing, their two very different, that 's what I just heard you just say. Wilburn/Right. Atkins/OK. Child care services. Champion/We were all for it, (can't hear). Pfab/Yea it's just something that we have to keep studying say, did you get the copy of the book? Atkins/Yes, thank you, I haven't looked at it yet, I just got it the other day. Pfab/I haven't either then so I thought you might have looked at it. Kanner/What this book? Atkins/No. Irvin found a book on child care options for employers and it's something we had knocked around internally for some time and he found this book for me, I just haven't read it yet. That one I didn't know about. Kanner/(Can't hear) we got this yesterday from Johnson County and it lists six areas of concern and one is child care and then they say child care, quality of affordable child care is one of the, providing it's one of the strongest form of economic development our community can offer. This is a community collaborative with our JCCOG staff. Lehman/You got this at the JCCOG meeting? Kanner/Yea. Pfab/And the thing is I think there's a shift in child care, it's not just for people on welfare, it's for quite a ways up the economic scale, this is a need that is needed by people very a long ways up there. Atkins/Regardless of your income, you need child care. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 174 Lehman/Right. Atkins/Regardless, and then somebody comes in to take care of your kids while your at work, regardless of your income you need child care. Pfab/So what you do is you change it from a welfare issue to a what public health or? Lehman/Economic development. Pfab/That's good. Atkins/Deer Creek, I don't know what you meant Mike by completion? Lehman/Build it. O'Donnell/It needs paving I guess is what. Atkins/You want to build this. Vanderhoef/No that's the 965. Atkins/Why not 965? Vanderhoef/965 is what's suppose to be replacement of this. Lehman/Well you don't want to. Atkins/Well either one. O'Donnell/Yea do the same thing is what I'm talking about. Kanner/Could you show where it's at on here please? Vanderhoef/It parallel's. Atkint/Deer Creek is right off. O'Donnell/It's the cutoff that many kids take to get to West High school. Vanderhoef/It's that old gravel road. Atkins/Here' s West High Steve, it's a gravel road just before you get to the interchange, I think 965 is right over here. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 175 Kanner/Is that where the girl died? Lehman/Yes. O'Donnell/Yesterday. Atkins/At the far end of it. Vanderhoef/It's the only noah south of it rather than Mormon Trek presently unless you go out to 218. So they cut through there and it mixes in with the gravel trucks that come up that. (All talking). O'Donnell/It's a bad road with a lot of usage basically. Atkins/Do you want me, do you want to call this Deer Creek 965 or Deer Creek? Lehman/Right. O'Donnell/965 is such a massive project. Lehman/Well just one or the other, I'm addressing that issue now. Atkins/A side conversation always. Pfab/Mike I think he's asking you what you want to do with it. Atkins/No, there was a side conservation, I was just waiting. Do you want 965 written into this? O'Donnell/Probably I think that's appropriate. Lehman/I think it's one or the other. Atkins/(Can't hear). O'Donnell/It's a long way off but it's got to be. Atkins/City Plaza Champion/We can combine both of my 24 and 25's together because I think their, oh I didn't bring up city plaza somebody else did. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 176 Lehman/Well and I think and 24 that's not a. Atkins/That's what I think, they are somewhat tied together. (All talking). Lehman/They need. Vanderhoef/Well they go up there with number 6 in the city labor force and they fit into that piece of how we want to prioritize the labor force and the dollars that go with that. Lehman/It depends on how you address the problem. Atkins/I understand what your saying yea. Vanderhoef/That's where, why I keep looking at our labor force and how we're going to prioritize these folks and how they fit into the budget. Atkins/Yea, there is no doubt in the next few years you will have to make budget priorities, we just simply do not have the money, since we're not about to have a sales anytime in the near future. You've got one source of income, the states going to continue pecking away at it. If you want services to grow something has to go. Vanderhoef/And if we're going to have make a policy that we're going to have more presence, police presence in the ped mall, and if were going to have more police presence in the parks then that police presence has to be addressed in number 6. Pfab/Can we address the city plaza by installing television monitors? Lehman/Well that's one of the issues. Pfab/I think it's something we should immediately take a serious look at. O'Donnell/Kind of like a big brothers (can't hear). (All talking). Pfab/So what, so what if that's what it takes to get some of these people to. Champion/People rob banks with a camera right in their face. Lehman/And can they catch them too. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 177 O'Donnell/It's such a small deterrent that. Pfab/Oh I don't think so it's been used other countries, other places they use them all the time. Atkins/All right, it's not policy, this is a priority for you. I've added that one to that one, is that OK? Lehman/OK. O'Donnell/OK. Atkins/Public safety regional. Vanderhoef/We've covered all that. O'Donnell/No. Lehman/Law enforcement we have not and that's the one that sticks out on that one. Atkins/This is the one that we have not talked about. Lehman/That's fight. Pfab/I think it's something that we just have to keep chipping away at, I mean I don't think it's, but it's, the economy is scale, there is no reason why there used to. When I was a kid there used to be a little store, a country store every so many miles so you almost drive a horse till you get home at night. Well they don't have them anymore. Champion/You used to fide horses then? Pfab/No, no. O'Donnell/We've got cars now remember. Pfab/I know as a result you get bigger units of government but township at one time trustees were pretty important people so hey let's get along with show, it's showing it off. Kanner/Is there? We have the county sheriff but are there examples of other kinds of metropolitan (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 178 Pfab/Well St. Louis. Atkins/There are, St. Louis has a, the city of St. Louis police department and then there's the St. Louis county has a shetiff and they contract to provide services for (can't hear). Los Angeles county, there' s the Los Angeles police department, there must be 80-100 incorporated suburbs in Los Angeles county many of which just simply contract with the Los Angeles county shetiff and they call it the Los Angeles County ShetiffPolice because it is a, not just a jail, not jailers but their a full blown police department. It is not uncommon no. And there is, and then there's, basically a concept of a metropolitan police department. Lehman/Anyplace in Iowa? Atkins/Not that I know of. Lehman/OK. Pfab/Can you find out? Atkins/I'll look around sure. Kanner/I'd be interested in heating. Champion/Yea. Pfab/Finding out maybe, maybe not only in Iowa find out where the closest ones are. O'Donnell/With law enforcement we're effective with mass populations. Atkins/Yea larger concentrations, yea. Lehman/But you also have to have strong political issues there. Atkins/Oh yea, but for example like in Califomia I mean I lived there in the early 70' s it was not uncommon to see suburbs of 60-70-80,000 people, that may have only 100 employees. They buy county fire, county sheriff, county water, county sewer, but they reserve for themselves all of the decision making, planning, development, Parks and Rec. I mean all the very personal kinds of things they reserve for themselves which maintain the unique character of each suburb so there's lots of thinks you can do. OK. Got that one taken care of. Last one. O'Donnell/I don't know what they really means. Champion/I don't either. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 179 O'Donnell/You know I think the whole philosophy of the $8.50, I don't consider that a living wage. I don't consider it a living wage with benefits, and I think there, and really we having nothing to do about with it, it's a state level but the idea of it if it ever does come to pass that Burger King is going to pay $8.50 or $9.50 well a whopper instead of $2.00 is going to cost $2.20, it's just passed on, you know, that's business. Pfab/Where does our beginning wage here for the city start now? Atkins/We have a variety, I know we pay probably about $6.50, why don't you come up to the microphone Dale, about as low, we go as high as $10.00. Dale Helling/Actually our temps. now are more in the area of $7.50 to $9.00. Atkins/We do pretty well as far as (can't hear). Helling/Permanent positions with benefits starting way above $8.50 is probably more in the neighborhood of $11.00 or $12.00. I can get it for you in two minutes. O'Donnell/I thought Hardee's was like $9.00 or $10.00. Helling/Some of those are paying (can't hear). O'Donnell/There's no minimum wage jobs in this county. Atkins/Well we needed to compete you know. Champion/Well we just raised it a $1.00 but over at temporary employees for the parks because you can't hire anybody at (can't hear). Helling/We are not able to get and maintain or retain our temporary employees like we used to be able to even now because we're competing with the Coral Ridge, the fast food places. Champion/You're competing with Hardee's fight? Kanner/Mike I'm not going to be able to convince you because you asked a question and answered it yourself, but for the record I'll say that livable wage which the county is now exploring says that city all city employees are paid at an amount with benefits that would take them over the poverty level for a family of four. So for instance as a city employee last year I was $7.90 an hour without benefits so with a livable wage you would say either pay them $8.50 with benefits or $9.50 without benefits an approximate amount. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 180 Champion/Were you a full time employee? Kanner/No this is a temporary. Champion/That's the difference now. Kanner/Right. Pfab/And a family of four too. Kanner/And it would say that people that you contract with they would have to pay their employees this livable wage also. So again it's, I look at it as a form of economic development that it really puts some money back into the economy, well paid workers is good for our economy, and it's also I think the fight thing to do. (All talking) O'Donnell/You really that $9.50 or $8.50 with benefits is a living wage? Kanner/Well I think it should be much higher but I think people in the movement for livable wage say let's at least start with that. O'Donnell/I think that's not a livable wage. Kanner/And that's something that's been done all over, at least above the poverty level, I agree let's make it higher then. Lehman/Steven does that mean that the city wouldn't do business, you say contractors, does that mean the city wouldn't do business with anybody that paid less than, in other words we would cease doing business with almost every small business in this city and you think that's a good idea? Kanner/No. Lehman/That's what you just said. Kam~er/No, I didn't say that we would cease doing business, hopefully these people would raise their rates. Lehman/Hey, but we'd have empty buildings, they couldn't stay in business a lot of them if their paying $10.00 an hour. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 181 Champion/Let me just propose another thing. If I mean I think defining what a livable wage itself is difficult, but who gets paid that wage I think is another question. For instance, ifI hire somebody who only works Saturday's at my store, their really working because their cute, secondly because they want to be able to buy clothes in my store at a discount, they frankly don't care what I pay them. Now I don't have any full time employees or even somebody whose half time making what your even calling minimum wage. So what happens with these companies who hire a lot of high school kids or a college kid in the summer who these kids are just looking for summer employment, I mean my kids all worked during the summer and you know they probably at least what the federal government calls minimum wage. But they didn't make what your calling a livable wage, and do you have to pay a college kid a livable wage because he lives in a house where his parents make over a $100,000 a year. I mean I really, you have to look at the whole perspective of this, and it's just not simple like your saying, it's just not simple. (Can't hear). Kanner/It's very complex I agree and. Champion/It's very complex and I don't think you need to pay part time employees who aren't working to live on OK, there's a difference between somebody who's working to subsist and somebody whose working to buy a new stereo set. I mean I think you've got a very complex problem here and I don't think it can be answered with a simple statement. Kanner/Right and that' s why I think that we should have, there's a group here, Iowa Human Rights and there's other organizations that are working on it. I think Ross signed on when he was campaigning to a livable wage idea and Irvin did also and I think we should have this group come in and make some presentations to us and they can answer your questions probably better than I can. Champion/They may have answered them already and we don't know the answers you know what I'm saying. Kanner/But let's bring them in and let's continue the debate is what I would argue and get some facts on some of the things, we've heard some different perspectives on what the facts are, let's hear from some of these groups and get it from the horses mouth. Wilburn/I signed onto the concept, I also had communicated to the group that put that out and poses that question to you. My concern about one of the concerns I brought up was one that Ernie brought up was so if I'm the city' s forced to now not shop locally, if you don't see that, if the city goes elsewhere to purchase and there is no elevation of raises at some of the local merchants then your forced to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 182 go elsewhere and then your sending your dollars elsewhere in the community. That was a concern that I raised about that. Kanner/So you said no to that question on the Iowa City federation of labor questionnaire that you don't support livable wage? Wilburn/I said yes I support the concept and I left the, the first time I submitted it I elaborated on it so they knew what my concern was and the next time I signed up with the understanding that they know what my concern was about it. Kanner/See I think your fight, I think there are a lot of concerns like that and we should explore more and find out how it works in other cities and other counties. There's a number of entities across the country that are doing in fact, it made People magazine so it shows you how much of a mainstream movement it is. Champion/The slick Inquirer. Kanner/What's that? Champion/The slick Inquirer. Kanner/That was it. Lehman/Yea but it was also, also in city county or whatever magazine we get here as a Council. Atkins/Yes. Lehman/There was an article in there and there's probably just as many strong arguments against it as there are for it in the same. We could debate that forever I don't think that if we have, I think we should priofitize these. Atkins/I'm ready to go. Lehman/I don't see that being a top pfiofity for me. Atkins/It's up to you all. Here's what I did. Each of you gets 10 of these. Champion/I want red. Atkins/You don't get red. O'Donnell/I want blue. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. Ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 183 Atkins/You don't get blue, your get make me ruin my train of thought. Now, in doing this, you will pass these down. O'Donnell/I only got nine. Champion/You got 10. Atkins/I tried to find a nice easy way to do this. Champion/It was a good idea. Pfab/(can't hear) paste them on there. Atkins/That's exactly what you have to do. (all talking). Atkins/Now you have 10, now before you go and do this #3 represents 4, 13, and 18, so I scribbled it out, ignore it. Lehman/OK. Atkins/18 is out, this represents 24 and 25, so that's out so don't waste a sticker on it because if you do your voting for something that's already somewhere else. 13 again is over at #3. Wanted to make sure is that this is affordable housing rent control, this is affordable housing ad hoc tenant to owner. What we'll do is you've got 10 of them, one each so if I count more than 7 on any one, somebody cheated. (All talking for a minute or so) Lehman/May I suggest, I suggest you write the numbers on them first because as everybody starts putting those numbers your not going to remember if you. You've got yours numbered. Champion/No. Lehman/Steve if there' s (can't hear) their trying to guess, you have to remember having put one on number 3 or 2 or whatever. (Tape inaudible, all talking away from table. Scoring exercise.) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. ws052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 184 Atkins/OK, OK, well it looks pretty obvious, you can see where the clusters are, the youth. Champion/I like those clusters. Lehman/Let' s get that out of the housing code, no more clustering. O'Donnell/All 7 of us went for number 8, that's good. Pfab/2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Kanner/Could I write or could you write like? Atkins/I'm getting ready to do that. Pfab/Is that something that we have to do now? Atkins/Well I'm going to write the whole thing up in a memo to you. (All talking). Atkins/Dubuque Street entrance, Economic Development, 4th fire station, City Plaza, youth, and regional fire are your top priorities, I named six. OK. Lehman/Yes. O'Donnell/That's interesting on #20, the fourth fire station I think. Atkins/OK. Vanderhoef/And that still only has 5. Atkins/Now those that even on the tail end even got a couple, I think we also have some merit in virtually everything you put up there. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to summarize all these, take them back to the directors, and ask them to begin putting together a kind of framework of answering these. Lehman/You know Steve I think there maybe a couple ways of condensing, I sense that there's interest for example regional, public safety, law enforcement, fire etc. you've only got two but I do think that the, the concept ofregionalism is far very, very important to this Council. Atkins/I can see that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 185 Lehman/Yes so I think that should be kept in mind when you start condensing these things that there is interest in trying to cooperate with other governmental entities in regionalism. The same way with economic development, some of those things may not be directly related but their part of economic development. Atkins/One of the things I found interesting is that with all of you on the youth, that's breaking new ground, I mean not that we haven't done that. Champion/They are our future. Atkins/Yea, no but I think your breaking some new ground. Champion/I have to, (can't hear). Lehman/No, no. Kanner/You're not going to sing? Champion/Sing, it would break up the meeting immediately (can't hear). Atkins/OK, I will summarize all 28, I will put them in some priority order base, or put them in priority based upon how you selected them. I'll probably embellish each one of them just from the discussion that I heard about each of them. I'll bring that back to you for future meeting for you to kind of just go over again and I'll be taking it to the directors fairly shortly. Champion/How come only two of you wanted the city kept clean? What's wrong with you people? Lehman/Oh, I think (can't hear). Champion/And both of them are mine. Lehman/You wanted two different numbers. O'Donnell/I think 24 and 25 combined addresses that thing. Lehman/Yea I do too. O'Donnell/With behavior and (can't hear). Atkins/Some of the things that you identify are technique as well as policy, I mean policy is to clean the place up, the technique might be (can't hear). The last thing This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 186 I have on the agenda is just an open item. If there's anything you wanted to talk with me about amongst yourselves, it's been a long day. O'Donnell/Well one thing Steve (can't hear). This is off the subject but maybe we have this City Manager who 's the City of Iowa City was rated very highly by Forbes. Atkins/Yea we did pretty well. O'Donnell/Was it the third or fourth city was it? Champion/Second. Atkins/I made a joke the other day, the top 10 cities in the country rated by Forbes Iowa City manager in two of them. O'Donnell/That's right. Champion/That's right. Atkins/Iowa City Manager Eau Claire. O'Donnell/So congratulations on that. Atkins/Good job, well thank you. Champion/Well that is pretty incredible. Atkins/Well Eau Claire is a town, there's a lot of similarities, physically it's probably more attractive because of the pines and just that northern Wisconsin. Champion/If you like (can't hear). Atkins/Yea and then we were going through some economic difficulties up there and at the time of my departure I think we had set in place the foundation of some really good things. It's a very nice town, a lot of good memories and good friends still there. Vanderhoef/OK these were things that we were looking at in the very near future, and you said a little brainstorming. Atkins/Sure (can't hear). Vanderhoef/For things that are further out there, one of them sort of showed up because of the Deer Creek road and 965 1 think is a little further out there perhaps but it's This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 187 one that we've got to keep our eye on big time so I would put that in the 5 year plan versus the 2-3 year plan. Dane Road extension to get that corridor between Highway 1 and what used to be the old 218 down by the airport I think is a very viable project, it needs to be done sooner rather than later, it will help us a whole lot because one of the things that didn't get mentioned here but is going to hit us about in five years also is the Benton Street thing and having the corridor between these two highways as an alternative now that we're finishing up Mormon Trek this makes sense to me to get it over to the old 218 south, I never can remember that number they put on it. Atkins/Oh 521. Lehman/South Riverside Drive. Atkins/South Riverside Drive. Vanderhoef/Whatever it is. Lehman/It does have a number but. Atkins/It does have a number but. Vanderhoef/That one is there and as a piece of that whole picture down there I see (can't hear) development possibilities because that is our rapid access to South 218 will be completed in the next 5 years all the way to St. Louis, so the Avenue of the Saints is going to be impacting more and more on that side of town and so I see those things as things to put out there. Other things that I look at are looking at new financing, how we might impact financing for cities, certainly we could speak as a body if there were something we wanted to do, I personally see just that one little piece that I put out on the mobile home kind of thing but there may be some other things out there that I think we should all keep our ears open and put them forward to at least talk about them and look at them. Taxing issues are always sitting there and we have to be mindful about what is happening in the state and how it impacts cities so that's another place where we can keep looking for future projects and help us grow in a responsible way. O'Donnell/I share what your saying, 965 and Deer Creek, and there' s one other thing I wanted to bring up and I really don't know how we do it because it's I believe it's University and Railroad properties. As you head east on Highway 6 as soon as you leave Coralville, I mean Coralville's got these nice wide sidewalks on both sides and the neat trees and the lights, as soon you hit Iowa City. Lehman/University and railroad. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. wS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 188 O'Donnell/It ends and I think we need to get as many people. (END OF 00-65 SIDE 1) O'Donnell/That' s a terrible bad (can't hear). Champion/Yea that's a really (can't hear) but we don't, we own that land or the University own it. O'Donnell/University and Railroad I think on one side, but I think we need to get on them to at least put a sidewalk on there or something. Champion/We should bring that up at JCCOG when we've got a University Rep. Vanderhoef/That will connect with their bridge. Wilburn/Yea that's right. Atkins/One time we did bring it up to the Veterans Administration and I didn't get anywhere. O'Donnell/But that has to, next time you drive on the road, look on the side and you'll see where it's worn down to the dirt where people are using that. Vanderhoef/Well they might be more amenable now that they are putting the bridge in so that at least on the noah side over on the International Center side and along the railroad track there, there might be something that we could bring right on up from River Road and the Crandic along that side would certainly be nice on one side at least. O'Donnell/But we need something there. Lehman/The railroad doesn't want a sidewalk adjacent to those tracks, they don't want anything there, that's why their putting that pedestrian bridge over the highway, they've got that walkway now that people are using and their very concerned with the liability from coming across the tracks. The other side of the road, there's absolutely no way for a pedestrian to get from Coralville if they want to walk along Highway 6 you can not get there. Kanner/Well you walk on the shoulder which I've done a few times. O'Donnell/Well you can walk on the shoulder unless it's snowy and then there is no shoulder. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 189 Kanner/No I agree with you we should have a sidewalk of some sort there because people do walk. Champion/It looks weird not to have a sidewalk. O'Donnell/It looks like you come from this nice bright thing and (can't hear) and then there's nothing there. Lehman/It is something we should at least talk to the University about again. O'Donnell/Something needs to be done there. Atkins/I can raise the issue. Champion/Yea. Lehman/It really should run all the way along Vets Hospital, I don't know what happens, obviously on Southlawn curve you can't run that sidewalk because you've got the retaining wall, I don't know where it ends or where it goes to but you'd have to go up or through the ramp or take a tunnel. Atkins/(can't hear). O'Donnell/You can go up and hook onto the foot bridge or you can take the sidewalks. Vanderhoef/That, on the north side. Champion/You could just sit there. Pfab/(Can't hear). Vanderhoef/Your battery ran down. Atkins/Ain't that the truth. (All talking). Pfab/There was nothing about storm water. Champion/Right. Atkins/We didn't mention it but you don't have any choice either, it's on the agenda because the Feds. said it would be. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500 May 25, 2000 Council Work Session Page 190 O'Donnell/These are things we can pick and choose. Pfab/I see. Atkins/I think most of you are, I mean I know when I talked to service clubs and so forth I really do try to explain to them that you know much of our agenda is not driven by the actions of the city council that they are presented with these issues and one of the things that I think folks often forget, the Federal government virtually has no ability to carry out it's own agenda. That they pass laws which automatically work, if we are healthy and able to do the things they want us to do in theory they would never get done because they do not have, I mean they pass a regulation on storm water I mean in theory you could go. Vanderhoef/We make them look good. Atkins/Absolutely make them look good. We do our work, we make them look good. Vanderhoef/When we do the work, whether they send us any dollars or not. Lehman/I guess you could pass an ordinance against rain. Champion/It's been really nice folks but is everybody ready to go home? Vanderhoef/Are you trying to say something? Pfab/Meaning there are no other business we are adjourned is that what your saying? Atkins/Thank you for your time this morning and this afternoon. I'll get this prepared for you in a couple or days or so and. O'Donnell/No more 7:00 or 8:00 meetings. Lehman/7:30 next Wednesday morning. Atkins/7:30 next Wednesday. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of May 25, 2000. WS052500