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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-07-17 Transcription July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 1 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session 6:30 PM Cotmcil: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Kanner, Wilbum, Pfab Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Nasby, O'Malley, Schoon Tapes: 00-75, SIDE 2; 00-76, BOTH SIDES O'Donnell/Before we start anything we should probably recognize a very important day last Sunday, I think our distinguished Mayor had his 61 st or 62nd birthday. Pfab/Oh. Lehman/Mike you've got one coming up pretty soon (can't hear). O'Donnell/Ernie as long as we're together I'll never catch you. Lehman/Your right, it wasn't my 61st or 2nd. O'Donnell/Well happy belated birthday, it was Emie's 571h right? Lehman/Now your really being kind, 59 but go ahead. Champion/Our baby. Lehman/I know. Franklin/Happy birthday. Lehman/Well thank you. PLANNING AND ZONING ITEMS A. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR AUGUST 1 ON AN ORDINANCE REZONING 20.78 ACRES FROM INTERIM DEVELOPMENT MULTI-FAMILY (ID-RM) TO PUBLIC (P) FOR PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF GILBERT STREET SOUTH OF NAPOLEON LANE. (REZ00- 00017) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 2 Karin Franklin/The first item is to set a public hearing for August 1 st on an ordinance rezoning property just south of Napoleon Park from ID-RM to Public, this is for the public works site project. B. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR AUGUST 1 ON AN ORDINANCE REZONING 35.15 ACRES FROM PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-1) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY (OSA- 1) AND APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY SENSITIVE AREAS DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR WALNUT RIDGE, PART 8-10, A 23-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED ON KENNEDY PARKWAY. (REZ00-00013//SUB00-00010) Franklin/The next item is also setting a public hearing for August 1 st on a rezoning. From OPDH-1 to Sensitive Areas Overlay (OSA-1). And this is for Walnut Ridge Parts 8-10, the reason we need to do this is because we didn't have the sensitive areas when this originally done, the sensitive areas ordinance when this was originally done and the plms that have been done on this have expired, the preliminary plats. C. PUBLIC HEARING ON A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE ANNEXATION OF 69.37 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF LOWER WEST BRANCH ROAD AND TAFT AVENUE. (ANN00-00001) Franklin/Item C is a public hearing on a resolution approving the annexation of 69.37 acres on the east side. Lehman/Connie's still dribbling her computer around. O'Donnell/Can we adjourn? Lehman/All right. Franklin/Is everybody under control? Lehman/We're under control, temporarily anyway. Franklin/OK, the area being proposed for annexation is this which is shaded, it's owned by Gary Watts and Jerry Lindeman. These two pieces are owned by other individuals, they will not creme a problem for us in terms of any kind of island or anything with this annexation. D. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO CONDITIONALLY REZONE 30.32 ACRES FROM COUNTRY SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL (RS) TO AND 39.05 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 3 ACRES FROM COUNTRY SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL (RS) TO INTERIM DEVELOPMENT RESIDENTIAL (ID-RS) FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF LOWER WEST BRANCH ROAD AND TAFT AVENUE. (REZ00-00012) Franklin/The second item, or the next item Item D is the public hearing on the zoning of this property which always of course has to follow the annexation. The lines that are shown here the RS-5 and the ID-RS boundaries what is illustrated is the first proposal that was brought in. That was the larger RS-5. Lehman/That's the dotted line? Franklin/Yes. And that has been amended to be roughly this line I mean obviously in the ordinance it's clearly defined. The reason for that has to do with the number of lots that can potentially be developed with access coming off of a road that will come from Court Street. If you recall in this RM-12 area we had a PDH plan which had some multiples and a road proceeding noah and then there was an intersection with another road coming off of here which will serve this property. The reason that access is an important issue with this has to do with condition of Lower West Branch Road. It is currently a chip seal at best road with a rural cross section and could not take urban density development at this point in time. So what this area defines is an area that roughly will accommodate about 72 single family units which would equate to the trip generation that could be handled by this road given what is here and what would be on this property here. At some later date obviously the ID-RS will change to a higher density and we will look at it at that time. There' s no desire on the part of Mr. Lindeman who owns this property over here to develop at this time so he's willing to come in with the ID- RS. That, the curve in this line here was following a creek bed but actually that' s no longer relevant given the fact that the zoning boundaries just moved over here. Any questions about that? Dee you look puzzled. Vanderhoef/Well I don't know whether to do it tonight or tomorrow night but building this in knowing in advance that we've got a dead end similar to another place in the city that. Franklin/Temp., oh well except this won't be an arterial, what this road will be coming off of here is a collector which as we've looked at possible concept plans for the further development of the area there will be more than one access point that will go up to Lower West Branch Road potentially. Vanderhoef/What about to Taft? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 4 Franklin/Taft it's unlikely given the topography that we're going to have anything from here going straight over to Taft as I recall. We do have the potential for something coming back down to Court Street through this RM-12 area. But one of the issues was right here is a property line and so depending on what happens with this piece and that's the piece that's reserved for the school district, there's, I think 7 ',/2 years left on that or 6 '/2 something like that. Assuming that that is never built as a school that then would be a potential development site in which additional access to Court Street could be provided at which time more of this area could open up. But I don't think we have a situation where we're getting into something similar to First Avenue if that's what your thinking of. Vanderhoef/Well just the fact that we have to do something in the way of upgrading of roads I looked at this as a possible putting it back on the city because of upgrading Lower West Branch Road. Franklin/Well Lower West Branch Road is something that we've started talking about at staff level in terms of a capital project that should go on our capital projects list. Now exactly how we pay for it is another issue, I mean I believe we can involve the people who are developing here on this tract, the upper part of this one, this farm and here as well as the developers that own property on the north side of Lower West Branch off Scott to participate in the cost of that whole project there but that' s something that we need to work through and one, the main reason for not rezoning this entire piece for development now has to do with that access and yes it will be a city capital project but I think it's conceivable that we can do it without it being a full city cost. Vanderhoef/Now that's the concern just because we put it on the list of capital projects and seeing what's already on that list this is way far out and so to develop this piece prior to some of these others and the extension of that road in an orderly fashion gives me some concem. Wilburn/At what point have you been talking on the stuff the whole, what fiscal year? Franklin/Haven't yet, out I mean we would just have it in the out years for now, that' s five years from now. Wilburn/What about the point of involving some of the developers? Franklin/Those conversations I think need to need to start as soon as we get that project out before you with your capital projects discussion that would occur probably sometime this fall or winter. Wilburn/OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 5 Champion/And Karin how do you do that then, do you assess them money now or do you (can't hear)? Franklin/Well we can either go through a formal assessment process or we can have agreements, development agreements with them as they develop their ground. Champion/The only reason I'm asking I think about that area on the west side of town with the flooding or whatever it was that they had a developers agreement too and so I was just wondering, (can't hear). Franklin/What one are you? Champion/The city' s problem but you know when the old, what am I talking about? Lehman/Oh the (can't hear) talked to us about stom~ management problems, this is probably a. Franklin/I don't see an analogy here. Pfab/I guess my question is it looks to me like the people in this marked off section would certainly have some benefits by having Lower West Branch Road improved but it looks to me like there are, we're going to let them have a free fide. By just leaving those little, by just (can't hear) out and said well we're not, we don't talk. Franklin/But that assumes, that' s why all of this ID-RS doesn't develop until that issue is resolved both Lower West Branch and Taft. Pfab/Right but it' s, you know I think if I was in the other part there. Franklin/Here. Yea. Pfab/In the part that's not, that is going to be rezoned at this point, I think I would feel a little unhappy if the neighbors there got a flee ride to get into that and since their going to benefit just as much or more than some of the people down below here. Franklin/Well we usually do it attached to a development project as opposed to individual home owners. That's not what I'm talking about is having individual home owners but as we have development projects come in here, here this whole property here which is undeveloped this whole farm here, this I don't think is going to develop because the person that bought it wants it for an island and then there's development potential over here and as we deal with those development This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 6 proposals that part of the approval is the obligation to share in the cost of improving Lower West Branch Road. Pfab/Well is it, would it be unrealistic to have an agreement to do, to move on here and to have an agreement to partake? Franklin/I think the nexus, the connection is a little bit harder to make because we've already got some infrastructure here that can serve some development in here, that's why this is at 72 units, that's the maximum that they're going to be able to. Remember this is all owned by the same, well let's see about here is all owned by the same development company. If they develop this they are going to forego some opportunities here and they know that because this is going to require another means of access and that other means of access is going to be Lower West Branch. We have to do it in terms of requiring participation in the improvement of Lower West Branch, do it at the point at which that access is necessary. Right now there is adequate access to develop an additional 72 units in here. Pfab/You mean to tell me that the people in this section that will never have direct access to (can't hear)? Franklin/No, no, no, I'm not, no. Pfab/Well at that point, at that point, have you asked a couple to bring some to the (can't hear). Franklin/No, I'm not explaining this well. Dilkes/I think, I think. Lehman/The developer who's developing that parcel will be contributing to that portion of the road in excess of what, or probably to the residential portion of the arterial portion to the city. Dilkes/I think the distinction that needs to be made for Irvin is that the RS-5 parcel does not necessarily benefit to the same degree by the improvement of Lower West Branch Road because they already have access onto Court Street. Franklin/Right. Dilkes/They don't need Lower West Brach Road. Pfab/(can't hear) Second access. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 7 Dilkes/Not for that development in of in itself. Lehman/No. Pfab/So then you' 11 never have an access to it. Franklin/They will practically speaking, they will be able to drive out that road just like I will even though I don't live there. Pfab/Well but at that point if at the time they have the access you drive out that road are they going to be required to help pay for it? Franklin/No because the development of that property does not require secondary access by our standards, that' s why there' s that 72-unit limitation on it. Once it goes beyond that then their secondary access that' s required and that' s where you have the relationship that allows you to exact financing from. Pfab/It looks to me like (can't hear) do another 72 thing and then not have to worry about it. Lehman/But we can't do the road. Pfab/Yea but I mean the next one have 72 and. Franklin/No. Pfab/And then have a second access, oh no a separate unit. Franklin/Only if you have another means of access than right here, if your going to use this road that is being built in here, you can, in addition to what has been approved here you can have 72 additional units. What they have chosen is to have this consume that capacity, they would have to get another access point down to Court or up to Lower West Branch or out to Taft before they could go beyond that. Capiche, another way. Pfab/I hear what you're saying but it looks to me like it's a way that the city can end up paying for a road because if you go to and access the people to the right of that their going to say well these people over here they didn't have to get (can't hear) the road why don't they be assessed? Well by that time it's too late, the horse is our of the box. Franklin/I disagree because (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 8 Dilkes/With that argument Irvin. Franklin/(can't hear). Pfab/I respectfully disagree with you then. Lehman/Eleanor. Dilkes/Well borrowing that argument you would never allow development until you had two accesses. I mean there' s a lot of development that can go on with one access. Pfab/OK that brings an interesting question then, do any of the people that were, where there is not a second access but when it's, when the second access is provided do they ever have to help pay for second accesses? Franklin/They do it through their taxes, that' s the city' s share. Pfab/But you had told me that you thought that road could probably be built without city money (can't hear). Lehman/No, no. Franklin/No, no, no, I said participation of the developer's, I didn't say no city money, it would be a shared cost. Pfab/Well these people don't have to share. Franklin/They will be sharing if they are there and they will be paying taxes and that their tax money will go toward the city' s share of constructing that road. Pfab/And so will other people that go there. Franklin/Yea, yea. Pfab/So in essence these people get a low priced fair versus the one' s that come on later. Franklin/But they don't need secondary access because they haven't reached that threshold yet. Pfab/I respectfully disagree. Franklin/All right. Steven. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 9 Kanner/Karin in literature we received it talked about the comprehensive plan and voluntary annexation and one of the things they mentioned is whether or not the proposed rezoning will fulfill an identified need within the community as less clear although there appears to continue to be a demand for single family residential development, that's one of the three criteria that' s suppose to be met. Does the staff do a cost benefit analysis of what we're putting in as far as utilities support and other support and also look at what it costs in schooling? The total cost package isn't what we get in return financially. Franklin/No we don't do that on a regular basis. We did that twice when we did the original Windsor Ridge, south of Court Street and when we did Sycamore Farms. After that, after we did that cost benefit analysis and proceeded with those annexations the city adopted a growth policy and a growth boundary and the policy is now that if it's within that growth boundary and it provides something that is benefit to the community it does not inordinately burden and we're not doing a precise cost benefit then as a matter of policy then we would advocate the annexation. Kanner/So you're saying that within this boundary there' s an assumption that there' s an overall benefit towards the city. Franklin/Yes, yes, that that is the area within which the city's growth will occur in the next 20 to 30 years. Pfab/Was there, was there ever a rationale spelled out why you made that decision? Franklin/Yea, it's in the comp. plan, and it's based primarily on the sanitary sewer system and the gravity fed sewers as being one of our most expensive basic infrastructure items and that growth area is defined primarily by water shed although there have been some political decision in amending that growth area. But it's primarily by water shed and defines an area which can be served by gravity feed with the existing sewer plant and the upgrades to that sewer plant that had already been programmed. So that was the basis of it. Pfab/So in other words they, in, I'm saying this as a question but I'm going to make it as a statement so in other words it they are welcome aboard because they will help pay for that infrastructure by (can't hear) fees and tap on fees and things like that. Franklin/Well it was trying to look at a rationale way of outlining so everybody knew where the city was going to grow in the next 20 years or so and using those water shed boundaries and sewer system as a point at which to start seemed to be a rationale thing to do because that's such a big investment. But it's not solely because of the development occurring there paying for the sewer system, it's not This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 10 that at all. It's to allow opportunities for growth in Iowa City but have those opportunities defined. Pfab/No I didn't mean totally pay for it but I mean in other words they contribute to. Franklin/Oh sure, they contribute to it, yea. Kanner/And can you point out where Hummingbird Lane is on there. Franklin/Over here, Hummingbird Lane. Kanner/Where the street was just built half way. Atkins/It' s right off Lower West Branch Karin, it use to be in the County, half of it was in and half of it was out. Right offof Court Street takes it off. Kanner/You can get to it from Lower West Branch in. Franklin/Right here. Kanner/Is that it? Franklin/Yea. Lehman/Right. Franklin/I guess I'm thrown on what the what that is about. Kanner/Well I just, I know where that is. Franklin/Oh perspective. Kanner/And also because half of it's in as Steve said half in the county and half in the city, are we planning to encourage annexation for the other part, is that? Franklin/Well this is all our growth area, our growth area goes out to approximately Taft, actually there' s some boundary over here so at some point in time all of this would be annexed. Now this farm is for sale right now and there are people looking at it, these are individual houses that have developed in the county at some point those will probably come into the city and in fact it's conceivable that they could in when this whole piece comes in here, I don't know. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 11 Kanner/It's just a little weird to see this street end midway, the new street that's going in, but I guess that's the way it is with the counties city (can't hear). Franklin/Well that' s where we improved that street where it's in the city limits and then as it continues on in the county, it's the drive, yea, and at some point that will paved to city standards and intersect to Lower West Branch Road yea. Champion/It's not the only road we've kept up that doesn't go anywhere. Franklin/Well it goes somewhere it's just kind of not in the same condition all the way along. Any other questions on this? Vanderhoef/Open space, when you took out the creek then is that just going to be fees in lieu of?. Franklin/We'll get that with the plat, that' s when we get it so I don't know exactly where it's going to be now. Lehman/But it will be. Franklin/It'll probably be along the creek, I would think that would be one of the best places for it is along here. Champion/OK. Franklin/But we'll have to look at that in detail when we do this plat and make sure we have accommodations for it when the future part is done which would mean that would be fees in lieu of yea. Vanderhoef/OK. Franklin/But until we have a plat I can't say exactly where it would be. Vanderhoef/No they talked about it in here and they talk about the creek, however that was when they were asking for the much larger annexation which would have included all of that. Franklin/Well the larger zoning of the RS-5 right. Kanned Well I guess no one spoke against that, this project we would have heard something or had something in our packets. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 12 Franklin Right, right, it would have also been in the Planning & Zoning minutes and I don't recall that there was anyone who spoke against it. OK. E. CONSIDER AN ORDNANCE APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART 6, AN 8.69, 35-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION WITH ONE OUTLOT FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT WINTERGREEN DRIVE, WEST OF SOUTH JAMIE LANE. (REZ00-00010/SUB00-00009) (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Item E then is Village Green South Part 6, that's pass and adopt. F. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLAT OF VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH, PART 6, AN 8.69 ACRE 35-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED AT WINTERGREEN DRIVE AND WEST OF SOUTH JAMIE LANE. Franklin/And then the resolution approving the preliminary plat of Village Green South Part 6 which just follows. G. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 2.01 ACRES LOCATED NORTH OF WASHINGTON STREET AND EAST OF GREEN MOUNTAIN DRIVE FROM PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-8) TO LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-5). (REZ00-0008) (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Item G is, G, H, and I are all related, they are the Washington Park addition on Green Mountain Drive, the pass and adopt on the zoning, the preliminary plat and the final plat. H. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLAT OF WASHINGTON PARK ADDITION, PART 11, A 10. 1 ACRE, 8-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER GREEN MOUNTAIN DRIVE AND WASHINGTON STREET. (SUB00-00006) I. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A FINAL PLAT OF WASHINGTON PARK ADDITION, PART 11, A 10.1 ACRE, 8-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER GREEN MOUNTAIN DRIVE AND WASHINGTON STREET. (SUB00-00014) J. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) PLAN, AND APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY PLAN This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 13 FOR VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART 5, A RESUBDIVISION OF A PORTION OF VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART 3A, A 12-LOT, 3.33-ACRE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT LOCATED AT WINTERGREEN DRIVE WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. (REZ-00009) (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Item J is pass and adopt on Village Green South Part 5 and then the preliminary plat for that follows for Item K. K. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLAT OF VILLAGE GREEN PART 5, A RESUBDIVISION OF A PORTION OF VILLAGE GREEN SOUTH PART-3A, A 3.33 ACRE, 12-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT WINTERGREEN DRIVE EAST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. (SUB00-00001 ) L. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE 54 ACRES FROM PUBLIC/ INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL (P/CI) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY- PUBLIC (OSA-P) AND FOR APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY SENSITIVE AREAS DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR PROPERTY LOCATED IN THE NORTH PART OF THE AIRPORT PROPERTY, WEST OF RIVERSIDE DRIVE. (REZ99-00001) (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/Item L is the Airport, we are going to need to defer. Lehman/Defer this one. Franklin/Yes, we're still trying to work through the land exchange with Super Value, there's nothing new. Lehman/Defer to August 1 st? Franklin/Yes please. M. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-5) AND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY (OPDH-5) AND APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN PARTS 18-20, A 19.6-ACRE, 10-LOT, 63-UNIT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT WITH ONE OUTLOT LOCATED SOUTH OF VILLAGE ROAD AND WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. (REZ00-00002) (PASS AND ADOPT) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 14 Item M is Village Green Parts 18-20 the pass and adopt on the zoning and the preliminary plat on the 10 lot subdivision there. That's more Wellington Condo's. N. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLAT OF VILLAGE GREEN PARTS 18-20, A 19.6 ACRE, 10-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION WITH ONE OUTLOT LOCATED SOUTH OF VILLAGE ROAD, WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD. O. CONSIDER A LETTER TO THE JOHNSON COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF A REZONING OF 43.17 ACRES LOCATED WITHIN FRINGE AREA A ON THE WEST SIDE OF PRAIRIE DU CHIEN ROAD AT NEWPORT ROAD FROM A1 TO RS SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL. (CZ0030) Franklin/Then Item O is a new item, this is a rezoning in the County for 43.17 acres. Let me show you where that is. This is up off of Prairie Du Chien road and we have seen subdivision of property adjacent to this by the Westcott's previously south of here. There is RS zoning, or I'm sorry noah, there' s RS zoning that was in place that was not abutting Prairie Du Chien but on Prairie Du Chien it was zoned A 1 and what they're coming in with now is a rezoning of this property from A1 to RS and this is consistent as they have laid it out for the RS zoning for the percentage and open space, this is consistent with the fringe agreement. The one issue that was raised was the, there' s a principle in the Johnson County Land Use plan that is a little bit confusing in terms of we're not sure exactly how their going to deal with it at the County level. And it relates to not rezoning land if there' s already lots available in the County and it's a pretty broad statement that we're just not sure how that' s going to shake out and did not want to take a position that would fly in the face of that. However given what we've got in the fringe agreement now and given what has already transpired in this area feel that this rezoning is consistent with the fringe agreement. However, the letter to the board is kind of a little bit ambivalent in that it concedes that if the board feels that this infill policy that they have is critical to them that we're not going to make a big deal about it if they don't rezone it. Is that clear? Kanner/I have. Champion/You mean adjacent lots or lots anywhere? Franklin/Well it's a statement in the plan that really is is unclear, it's in their noah corridor policy which could be that there were any lots available in the north corridor means they wouldn't zone any more land for RS. Now what this does here is it allows this RS to actually develop and get access because otherwise there isn't any or it's limited to this street up here. So I don't know we kind of This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 15 went back and forth about it but I think it's reasonable to look at this one given what's behind it. If this was all A1 behind it then you know I think it would be a different story. Pfab/Is this the development of the real problem with the steep road and what not, is that this project or some steep roads out in there? And (can't hear) access to it. Franklin/It's on a ravine area but I don't know that these road are inordinately steep, are you thinking off of Dubuque Street? Pfab/No, I was thinking off Prairie Du Chien Road. Franklin/I know there' s some off Dubuque that are very steep. Pfab/No this is a problem because it, I think it had, there are houses in this area here? Franklin/North, this has started to develop up in here or at least it's platted. I think they've started some construction up there that was Jim Anderson that was doing it. Pfab/Something about the snow removal and how they were going to divide out who was going to do it. Franklin/Boy Irvin I don't know, I'm not tracking on that, is anybody else? Pfab/OK. (can't hear) it was a problem but I see that they voted for it, it passed at 7-0 so I. Kanner/But one thing, I wanted to ask Council, I do have some concerns about the infill ordinance that the County has and I'd like to see the minutes from the P & Z and the reasoning for why they've approved that and we haven't gotten that so I'd like to ask if we could delay a vote on this until our next meeting. That would help me. Vanderhoef/Didn't they, (can't hear) put with a caveat of. Franklin/No they don't have the minutes of. Vanderhoef/What we were just talking about depending on how the County is going to interpret it. O'Donnell/Subject to. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 16 Kanner/Well it's basically a general approval that's the main point of it is an approval with a little caveat and I guess I want to be able to read the minutes and look at how P & Z approached it and why they basically approved it so I want to look at the overall issue and be able to examine it a little better. Franklin/We have to. Kanner/I know there are some people that are opposed in the area to this and I'd like to be able to have more time to study that and get a better feel for it. Franklin/We have two commissioners here, the chair of the commission is here Ann do you want to speak to this at all or Dean? Either one of you. If you could shed any light on this for Steven as to what the commission's thinking was. Dean Shannon/I can't remember what we did on that, do you remember what exactly, I think we kind of let it to the County didn't we? What their opinion was going to be on that? If I remember right. Ann Bovbjerg/Sure, as I recall we thought this was a reasonable rezoning because it's a matter of fact it let development go in the shaded area and if the interpretation for infill means you have to do the shaded area first as a matter of fact it can't be done because you can't get up because you don't have a secondary access and so that' s why we said consider what you really mean by infill. We thought this was giving a chance for the infill to go on and it would probably this is what would happen to this property anyway. Pfab/Since there are two of the people here from the Commission I'd like to ask a question about something else if I might. Lehman/Well it is relevant to this one? Pfab/No it was before, it was one that was before that. OK. Shannon/Well now that she mentioned that, that was a big issue now that I think about it was the second access. There was only access from the north and I think that was a big consideration that we'd have to, mean that was a one big thing I remember why we did that. Lehman/Karin I have a question for you. In reviewing development in this two mile fringe area if the development meets what we, our agreement with the County for the fringe area. Which I presume that this does. Franklin/Yes it does. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 17 Lehman/What reason would we have for not approving something that meets the agreement that we've agreed to? Franklin/Well there isn't, there really isn't any, it does meet the terms of the fringe agreement, I think it was just a matter of being aware that the County has this land use plan also which is mentioned in the fringe agreement. Lehman/But we've don't that, if they choose not to allow it because of their own in~ll policy obviously that's their call. Franklin/Yea. Lehman/But we have no reason to Franklin/No. Lehman/Make a negative recommendation if it meets the agreement we have with the County. Franklin/That' s right, that' s right, and I think that. Vanderhoef/It's their call. Lehman/It's their call. Franklin/Exactly it was saying to them we understand you have this in~ll policy in your land use plan which we don't totally understand how you're going to approach this but as we looked at this particular development it's consistent with the fringe agreement and we think that you can rationalize it within your infill policy because of what Ann just said. Lehman/OK. Vanderhoef/I'm OK with it. O'Donnell/I am too. Karin this one statement in the land use plan that you can not develop any lots while there are available lots, well that' s a fai~y broad statement. Franklin/Well it is a broad statement but I think it's, what it's recognizing is that there is development potential in the north corridor that the County will not, well let' s see how to put it. They will look very carefully at rezonings, understanding that there are lots available in the north corridor that can be developed already and not just This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 18 rezone lots in the north corridor without taking that into consideration. And I think it's probably a trying to compromise between development interests in the north corridor as well as those people who have concerns about too much development of agricultural land, of hilly land, of the environmentally sensitive land that's in the north corridor and recognizing that there are development opportunities but their not just going to rezone land for the sake of it. O'Donnell/Do they specifically state in that land use plan lots in the north corridor? Franklin/It's in the north corridor section of the land use plan. O'Donnell/OK. Franklin/OK. P. CONSIDER A LETTER TO THE JOHNSON COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS RECOMMENDING DENIAL OF A REZONING OF 125.43 ACRES LOCATED WITHIN FRINGE AREA C EAST OF DANE ROAD AND WEST AND SOUTH OF THE LAKERIDGE MOBILE HOME PARK FROM COUNTY A1 RURAL AND RES SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL TO COUNTY RMH MANUFACTURED HOUSING RESIDENTIAL. (CA0027) Franklin/OK the next item is also a County rezoning this is a request to rezone 125 plus acres to RMH which is the County zoning for manufactured housing. We've had a request from the developer to defer this to allow us to have some discussions with him about annexation and how this development would be accomplished. O'Donnell/You mean date in the referral. Franklin/Defer it for the two weeks, yea until August 1 st. Vanderhoef/Until August 1. Lehman/August 1 st. Kanner/Item P your saying they are thinking of volunteering annexation now? They're changing their tune a little bit. Franklin/Well. Lehman/That wouldn't be (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 19 Franklin/I wouldn't go quite that far, I'd say that they're open to conversations about it but the tune may still be the same. Kanner/Did they initiate that new conversation bend or did we initiate it? Franklin/I think that was. Lehman/Came to me. Franklin/Came to you yea. O'Donnell/OK. Franklin/I'm done. Lehman/Thank you Karin. AGENDA ITEMS Steven Atkins/One item Ernie to bring to your attention Item No. 10 Family Video calling of that hearing that' s no longer necessary, Family Video has chosen not to purchase the property in (can't hear). Lehman/Just skip that item tomorrow night. Atkins/I assume we just skip over it. Dilkes/No action. Karr/No action. Atkins/OK that's all I have. Lehman/I don't have to read it right? Karr/And then also on that same note Item No. 7 to be public hearing on the 2000 concrete paving rehabilitation project, again there will be no action. You should read that item because that public hearing was set but as you see from the comments staff is recommending that it be referred until yearly 2001. Lehman/Oh so we. Karr/Do not open the public hearing. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 20 Lehman/What do we just skip the item? Karr/No you need to read into the record because the public hearing was set by resolution just read the item and note that it was recommended by staff that the project be rebid in February and a public hearing will be set at that time. O'Donnell/Which one is that? Champion/And where is this, where is this (can't hear)? Karr/I'm sorry. Vanderhoef/On Rochester. Champion/Right by Regina in that area. Atkins/And down the hill further. Lehman/OK. Other items. O'Donnell/I've got one item number 8, we're moving forward on this solid waste advisory committee, Brad Newman will be the head of this, I think it's very worthy for us to get involved in at this time, short comment. Kanner/Yea I think it's a good idea too although I wanted to throw out the idea of maybe one or two other outside of Iowa City members since they contribute to the land fill issue and I think it would be good to have a perspective of someone from the county outside of Iowa City and perhaps Coralville also. O'Donnell/The landfill is in Iowa City though and owned by Iowa City so. Kanner/I understand. O'Donnell/So that's why I support Iowa City people being on it at this time. Lehman/How many people on the commission? O'Donnell/You know I'm not certain. All talking/9. Kanner/Nine is recommended. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 21 Vanderhoef/That's a huge commission. O'Donnell/It is rather large. Atkins/I don't think there's any magic to that though if you think a smaller number. Karr/Could I just note for the record that again this is establishing a commission and we don't often, we haven't established a new one in some time but in doing a little bit of research it might be helpful to allow the commission to meet and form recommendations in of it's bylaws which are going to have to come back to you which it also formulate the terms and the composition and hear from the commission at that time on their recommendation for make up, that might be another time because you will be getting that, that will be the first item of business. Vanderhoef/You were talking about make up we were talking about numbers. Karr/Same situation, same situation. Vanderhoef/Well but we appoint before we get it. Karr/Exactly but you've got staggered terms and you can amend your resolution, it's only a resolution in composition. Kanner/So we appoint nine from Iowa City and then they come back with a by-law that might say 2 of those 9 should be from other areas. Lehman/Which means at the end of the first year when their terms expired you would then appoint somebody from another area but the original nine according to this would all be from Iowa City. Kanner/Right, right. Champion/Nine is a lot of people to work, to get bylaws together. Lehman/They've got a lot of crap out them. O'Donnell/We have a substantial amount also on the Deer Advisory Committee and. Lehman/But is there a reason for the nine? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 22 O'Donnell/You know Ernie I'm not certain but that's why we're going to a have to rely more on Brad Newman, if Brad isn't here. Atkins/Brad's not here. Lehman/He's conveniently not present. Well maybe by tomorrow night. Atkins/Folks there is no, I don't believe there's a magic to nine, the Library Board is nine. Vanderhoef/Would you consider doing seven and then? Champion/(can't hear). Vanderhoef/If they ask for more we can (can't hear). Champion/Ask staff to ask (can't hear) why it's nine. Pfab/It's better off to add them if you need them rather to throw a couple of them out before. Champion/But we can hear tomorrow night. Pfab/If they're going to have to, if these people are going to have to write the bylaws then they'd have a better idea then it would probably facilitate in the bylaws. Lehman/Maybe we can ask Brad tomorrow. Atkins/Sure I'll get the final answer. Lehman/As to why there are nine it just seems like an awful (can't hear). Atkins/Fine I'll get that for you tomorrow night. Lehman/OK. Wilburn/I have a question in the consent calendar Item in the resolutions d(6) the work accepted on the Kiwanis Park and the storm water over there. Steven I had a couple calls maybe a month and a half ago from some people in the neighborhood association around there along with (can't hear) some confusion with the some plantings that the neighborhood association did. Atkins/Yep. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 23 Wilburn/Did all of that get straightened out? Atkins/To my knowledge that was all corrected, the neighborhood planted prairie grass and the contractor promptly mowed it down. Wilburhal Right but they said there was some other. Arkins/And that was to and he recognized his error and was to have corrected them and I'm assuming, I will check for you but I'm assuming. Wilburn/I mean other than that were there some other items that would have? Atkins/Usually these wouldn't come unless because they think they're releasing their retainage, I'll check and I'll have it for you tomorrow night. OK. Kanner/Also in the consent calendar we had a letter from the City High PTO president about using Dan' s Short Stop for a sign and I was wondering if we could talk about that. It seemed like a good idea to me to be able to use that sign but because of ordinances it was said that we couldn't do that but I was wondering if there was any way around that. Lehman/The problem I think of getting around that is that it's City High this time and the next time it's the Kiwanis Club and the next time it's Rotary Club and pretty soon it's going to be a car dealership who wants to do it. I thought the letter that we sent back was a pretty good letter. O'Donnell/I do too. Lehman/I agree with you philosophically I'd love to go ahead and do it but I'm not sure that sets a good precedence. Kanner/Although I'd say they're different from other organizations, their being a taxing public organization similar to us so I don't think their in the same league as those other ones you mentioned we can draw the line at that. Lelunan/Would you put them in the same category as nonprofit organizations like Hospice or something like that that would want to do the same kind of sign? Kanner/No I'd keep them in. Champion/They're supported by the taxes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 24 Kam~er/Yea I'd put them in a public public taxable taxing organization separate from those other ones and I think they should have perhaps some more privilege. Dilkes/Well it's going to have to be an ordinance amendment so the question is whether you're interested in having staff look at developing such an amendment. Champion/I'd like to think about it, I'I1 let you know. (can't hear). O'Donnell/I was very comfortable that we sent today, yea. Champion/Well I was too but. Vanderhoef/I guess I was sort of amazed that they thought it was so expensive to move the sign down onto their own property which they could have done further down on First Avenue. Kanner/Well it seems to me the bigger things they have more publicity out there on Rochester. Vanderhoef/Well it would just be, is it the Rochester sign or is the one on First Avenue? I thought it was the one on First Avenue they were talking about that has, hasn't had any printing on it now for quite some time. Kanner/I'm not sure which one it is. Pfab/The Rochester one has (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Yea but the First Avenue one doesn't. Pfab/I've been by there and I can't remember. O'Donnell/I understood it was the First Avenue one. Vanderhoef/I thought so too so it, to move it down onto their own property which is I read the letter appears to be a legal action if they move it down there. Kanner/So not a big thing. Lehman/Are there other agenda items? APPOINTMENTS This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 25 Lehman/Planning & Zoning Commission, we've received another application for that which I think is kind of a renewal of one we have before from Norm Osland and there were also a couple letters ifI. O'Dmmell/I would like to nominate Norm. Vanderhoef/I' 11 second that. Wilburn/(can't hear). Lehman/P & Z. Wilbum/P & Z. Charles Eastham. Pfab/Who? Lehman/Charlie Eastham. Pfab/I would support Charlie Eastham. Wilburn/Plus I thought he had a couple comments maybe kind of think about some things, appreciate his involvement in the community. Letunan/Charlie is an active person, no question about that. Pfab/He contributes a lot. Lelunan/Any other nominations, how many would be in favor of appointing Norm Osland? Champion/Could we just (can't hear) for a minute. Lehman/I'm sorry, yes, I'll wait. Champion/Because I have real problems with both these candidates I think they're both really excellent and because Norm has applied before. Lehman/Several times. Champion/Several times that I am going to support him although I regretfully, I'm not supporting Charlie at this point because I think he would be excellent. Vanderhoef/Agree. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 26 O'Donnell/Well said. Champion/Now that I have ruined (can't hear) we've talked about him before and we've turned him down several times and as far as I know I don't think Charlie has applied before, has he? O'Donnell/I don't think he has before. Lehman/(can't hear). Champion/But I am going to support Norm at this time. Kanner/Some good candidates, I think Charlie has put in a lot of effort into housing fellowship and really knows the material and I think he's very even handed. I think perhaps there' s some of us wanted to do more one way, some the other way and I think it sort of ends up being (can't hear). (END OF 00-75 SIDE 2) Kanner/So perseverance and what he's done for the housing fellowship. Champion/I know that. Lehman/Other comments. Pardon. Vanderhoef/Tough call. Champion/It is. Lehman/Those, do we have four votes for Norm Osland? We have four, I will support Norm frankly because he has applied over the last two to three years on several occasions and I absolutely have the greatest respect for Charlie and I trust that I'll have an opportunity to appoint him at some future date. Champion/I hope so. Lehman/You're right two very good candidates. OK, Affordable Housing, wait a minute Civil Service Commission we have no applications. Vanderhoef/No applications. Wilburn/No applications. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 27 AFFORDABLE HOUSING FUNDING POOL - METRO PLAINS (ITEMS # 11 AND 12.) Lehman/Affordable Housing Funding Pool Allocations, Steve. Steve Nasby/Start you out with some more handouts Emie, grab them. Kanner/Can we read these faster than the sports page? Nasby/Probably you've seen most of these before so. O'Donnell/Good. Lehman/I've got one to many. Nasby/Affordable Housing Pool I had done a couple memos to you in the past that Affordable Housing Funding Pool was one of the strategies that was recommended by the Community Housing Forum and the Council approved a number of those strategies in 97, the Affordable Housing Funding Pool being one of them. The program was approved and then the project the activity itself was brought to the Housing Community Development Commission for their review and they put together some of the, a couple of the things that I handed out to you one was which was the brochure the other one program guidelines. And we've had the Affordable Housing Funding Pool since 97, we've started it formally in 98 and then the Commission and the Council awarded some home funds to that activity in fiscal 99. So we've had it going for a couple of years and the application that we have tonight is from Metro Plains, their proposing to build 30 units for a family rental housing, those are the colored handouts that I gave you. The commission looked at this at their meeting in June and had recommended $225,000, I know that there have been some questions raised some (can't hear) in your Council packet about following the guidelines that the Commission had established and so. Lehman/Can you tell us why they chose not to follow the established guidelines. Nasby/They had the conversation about it, they were very comfortable with the project, the project meets a high City Steps priority and had relatively low amount of public subsidy and it was something that they wanted to fund in January but they didn't have site control so. Lehman/But it doesn't meet the guidelines I mean wouldn't it have been more appropriate to come back and ask for the guidelines to be changed? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 28 Nasby/At that time they didn't have an opportunity to do so because the low income housing tax credit program which is run by IFA has right now I think they have an August 14 deadline. And at that time they had a I think a July 14 deadline so they didn't have the time to go back and ask them to change the guidelines. The commission felt that to use the program they needed to make it more flexible due to their comfort with the project and also the inactivity in the last couple of years. And they did talk about the guidelines and realized they did not meet them but they made their recommendation. Vanderhoef/Well I have some concerns with obviously the process that's been used here, but just in general as I recall when we approved this program when we were real specific these were dollars coming from general funds and we wanted to have a positive effect and to recoup dollars. Nasby/Correct. Vanderhoef/And with 1 percent money we're losing dollars and I'm not sure that even if they brought it back for us to look at to change guidelines at this point in time I feel like we should stay with 3 percent and possibly 4. Nasby/Yea and I had recommended 3 to you in the memo because I. Vanderhoef/Yes and I appreciate that. Nasby/The performa would support a higher level debt service, now that's something when if we go a step further in this we can work with the applicant to see whether we do some deferred interest as the cash flow grows and get larger repayments or we do a balloon at some point in time and pay that back. But there are also some restrictions on the debt service due to the lender their private lender requirements that we would have to work with but I. Lehman/Eleanor I guess I have a question for you, if there are, do you have any problems with the recommend, us accepting a recommendation that does not follow the same guidelines that we've made public. Dilkes/I looked at the guidelines and I think that's one of the handouts that Steve gave you. The guidelines state that pretty clearly that the repayment must not exceed a 10 year term at 3 percent to 7 percent interest rate. I think just from a process perspective, the rules have sort of been changed in midstream and I think that that's problematic because I think that I think looking at these guidelines an applicant could very well expect not to receive more favorable terms than that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 29 Lehman/Well it would seem to me from my perspective it would be inappropriate to approve a project that strays so far away from the guidelines that have been established. And I think it was very well pointed out in the letter from Iowa City Housing Fellowship that had they known and perhaps other people known that those rules were that flexible that we might have seen more activity regarding those funds. Nasby/We actually, yea we did have one other application by HACAP early on in the program. Lehman/Which terms did they get? Nasby/They weren't funded because they were asking for 50 percent financing in a grant and they weren't even close so the Commission said no at that point, they were willing to work with them but they said no because it wasn't close. I think the commission felt that this was something they could live with but obviously enough that' s going to be problematic. Lehman/And I'm not saying it isn't something that we can live with but it just seems to me that if we're going to change the rules we need to change the rules for everybody so we all play by the same rules and if we change the rules, which I'm not sure that we will but if we change the rules and they come back and why and meet the same criteria that's fine but at least it's a level playing field. Nasby/Now the guidelines that were established by this were done by the commission and were not approved by the Council. Lehman/I don't think it makes any difference. (All talking). Nasby/(can't hear) next set if they go back to revise them or leave them the same do you want approval of them? I guess that's what I want to ask. Vanderhoef/Absolutely. Champion/Yea I think so. Nasby/OK. I wanted to ask that question. Vanderhoef/This is the expectation that's out there in the community so we need to do that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 30 Kanner/Steve. Vanderhoef/While we're here this project has lots of positive things about it, however for me and the comprehensive when I read scattered sites for low income housing I have a vision of a much smaller concentrations than 30 in the same space. Champion/(cant' hear). Vanderhoef/Yea this one is 30, they're asking for 30 in the stone location and I'd like to have some conversation just in general of what you folks feel is scattered site with when we talk about it in the comp. plan you know obviously it appeared to the commission that 30 was an appropriate number and maybe they didn't talk about scattered site I don't know. Champion/But I, this is really affordable housing and not low income housing. This is housing in what price range would you say? Nasby/Well the units themselves will be constructed and pre unit cost is like $130,000. Champion/Right, $130, 000, there's some $108,000, $130,000 somewhere in that range and it I think different than low income housing, this is affordable housing which I don't find a pool of 30 in this neighborhood as I don't object to that at all, these are people who can afford to maintain and keep a house generally. Nasby/Well these are going to be renters. Vanderhoef/These are 60 percent or below. Nasby/These are going to be renters. Champion/Oh. Vanderhoef/These are rentals and these are 60 percent and below median income. Lelunan/But are they also only elderly and disabled? Nasby/No these are going to be families because they're 3 bedroom units. Champion/No they're 3 bedrooms which is really nice. Vanderhoef/Family homes, the elderly and disabled. Nasby/That's a different agenda. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 31 Vanderhoef/Is another project on the west side? Nasby/Yea, I think talking about the concentration or it's a scattered issue I think it will be very helpful for staff and also the commission to know what the Council wants. Vanderhoef/What scattered means. Nasby/Yes, so they can know, if they get projects that you know you would like them more like them to approve them or not. Champion/I do like the idea but I'm not going to support it because I don't think you've changed the rules in mid stream and other people might have liked to have those same rules that they've changed too. Vanderhoef/Well this one would have to go back out right now, but just in general I would like to have the conversation not specifically about this one but any project that comes in what does scattered site mean to you. Champion/We need to put it in a work session (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Or do you want to do it now or do you want to think about it? O'Donnell/Oh I think we should probably think about this one. Vanderhoef/OK. Pfab/If these are rental units, who is going to be doing the renting to? Nasby/The Metro Plains, the developer would be doing all the management. They would have an on site manager to do collect the rents and do some of those things but they would also have their own overall management which would take care of all the lawn care, take care of all the snow removal, and do all the paper work compliance. Pfab/Now how many different complexes do they own and manage? Nasby/Jeanne's here. Jeanne/Over 4000. Nasby/How many? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 32 Jeanne/Over 4,000 units, (can't hear) for a large organization. Kanner/Steve so right now the difference between what's proposed at the received end our guidelines is the length of the term. Nasby/Correct. Kanner/What' s the difference between in dollar amounts, total dollar amounts between a 10 year term and a 20 year term, what are we talking about? Nasby/It depends on what interest rate. Kanner/Well at 3 percent, let's say at the 3 percent rate. Nasby/I can figure it out and get that to you, I left some stuff With Steve Long while I was on vacation but guess you didn't get that. You asked me that before I left and I figured it out for you. Lehman/Two basic problems with this, one is that the timing of it is the limit that has sent out in the criteria for time is 10 years, the minimum interest rate is 3 percent and their proposal is for 20 years at 1 percent so we're, their way off on time and 1/3 of the minimum interest that is set out in the guidelines. I mean I think it differs substantially from the criteria. Kanner/Well I'm saying that though maybe something can be worked out where they move toward the 20 year term and also the 3 percent and that would meet our guidelines. Vanderhoef/Well they would have to come back in with a proposal that met the guidelines for us to look at it and if the guidelines are changed then I think we have to open it up for everybody in the community whoever wants to bid on dollars out of this funding rule. Nasby/If the guidelines are changed. Vanderhoef/If the guidelines were changed. Nasby/OK because I know the applicant's will probably take atum to speak to you tomorrow night, and you know I don't know whether they can you know fall into those parameters or not. Kanner/Something to think about and see what the difference is in dollars. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 33 Nasby/Yea. Kanner/The other question is in the literature we got in our packet it said 20 years of affordability but then I was talking I think to Steve Long and he said that there, he thought it might be 50 years according, if they receive the tax break from the state. Nasby/Correct. Kanner/Is it 50 or 20? Nasby/It's 50. Kanner/50 years. Nasby/It's 50. Kanner/OK. Nasby/It's 50 years. Lehman/That's pretty substantial. Kanner/Yea it is. Nasby/Yea that's a substantial (can't hear). Kanne~ And it is different from 20, it's quite different from 20. Vanderhoef/And would these be units be eligible for certificates. Nasby/They'd be eligible for certificates vouchers if the tenants were under 50 percent a medium income because I think that's the cut off for that program and this would allow people up to 60 so I would, they'd be (can't hear). Lehman/Well Steve let me ask you this, that's Item 11 on tomorrow night's agenda and 12 is a resolution supporting the development of formal housing and authorizing that we sign a letter in support to build a threshold requirements of low income housing credit. Is this relative to number 11 ? Nasby/Yes. Lehman/Which means that if we choose not to approve number 11 we probably would look kind of silly doing number 12. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 34 Nasby/We probably would yes and I would want to talk to the developers to make sure they wouldn't submit a tax credit application without our funding which they probably would not but yea we would want to cancel the next item as well. Lehman/So what are we telling these folks? Well I guess we'll be telling them tomorrow night. Kanner/I would like to hear what they have to say tomorrow and. Lehman/Yea. Well I guess you hear the concerns obviously they can be addressed tomorrow night at the meeting. Nasby/And I think. O'Donnell/The guidelines are not (can't hear) the interest rate is wrong, the (can't hear) is wrong, that's my concern with it. As far as putting it back out and letting other parties participate possibly is what I'm interested in. Lehman/Yea and I think the Council would be subject to some or could be subject to some real severe criticism on this one and I think justifiably so if we allow the rules to be changed and then we approve that change in the rules without giving everybody an equal opportunity at it. Nasby/Absolutely. Lehman/Anyway we'll save that until tomorrow night. Vanderhoef/OK. Pfab/Ernie. Lehman/Mike. Pfab/Mike, hello, what were the three, what were your three points that you made tonight? O'Donnell/What's that Irvin? Pfab/What were your three points that? O'Donnell/The guidelines, the percentage rate and number of years basically plus Irvin put everybody on an equal (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 35 Pfab/Right, I agree but I was just going to say the last two I mean what would happen if they came in and said OK we'll accept it with the interest rate (can't hear) but instill the guidelines? O'Donnell/But then we didn't have everybody playing in the same playing field was my concern. Pfab/Right, it's really the guidelines is really where the (can't hear). O'Donnell/Absolutely. Kanner/Steve. Nasby/Yes. Kanner/Three percent that you came back and proposed is that something that you talked about with the developers or are you just throwing that out on your own? Nasby/No that's in the memo. Vanderhoef/It's here in the memo. Nasby/It's in the memo that I gave you. Kanner/No, no, I know it's in the guidelines but you. Nasby/I talked to them prior to sending the memo and told them I would be recommending three. Kanner/Were they OK with that 3 percent tacked up to three percent? Nasby/It's negotiable, I mean it depended on whatever terms if your looking to go 30 years then maybe 3 percent is better than going 30 years and 10, 3 percent in 10 years. That's I mean I think a lot of it had to do with the term but 3 percent was something we could work out yes. O'Donnell/Yea I think that's, we need a work session on something like that. Vanderhoef/OK. Lehman/Well a part of it tomorrow night we're well aware of the situation we can discuss it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 36 Nasby/And I think Jayne Moraski the chair of the Housing Community Development Commission will be here tomorrow. Lehman/That's right. Nasby/She had more questions about why they strayed from the guidelines. Lehman/OK. Vanderhoef/But I still want a conversation that associated with a request on the table. O'Donnell/Yea, good. Vanderhoef/About what it looks like for scattered sites. Nasby/I think that would be extremely helpful. Lehman/Well I think we need to differentiate between scattered sites and density within one site because I think scattered sites obviously you could have 100 units, unit buildings scattered and that would meet the term scattered but I think what Dee is talking about which I think is our concern is the density within one building or one development, you know what does constitute a level that we're not comfortable with. That's something perhaps they can discuss as well and yet get some recommendation on that, I think that's something that we do want to talk about. Vanderhoef/Yep. Lehman/All fight thank you. Champion/(can't hear). Lehman/We are going to take a QB, quick break. SYCAMORE MALL Atkins/Ready. Lehman/I think we left off with you Steven. Atkins/Steven here, Steven's here OK. As David makes his way up to the microphone in your packet you found a proposed urban renewal plan for something we've This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 37 emitled the Sycamore First Avenue Urban Renewal plan. Most of you are aware of the interest about the economic changes that have occurred on the east side. Our Economic Development Committee, I think we sent copies to everybody, reviewed a business survey stating an obvious part of town that need some attention was the south east portion of our community. Sycamore mall and surrounding property has recently been purchased, during discussions with the new owners and thereby perspective developers, they ask and we indicated interest in providing some financial incentives to assist in the revitalization of that area. The area on your map represents the CC-2 zoned property, it is more than just the Sycamore Mall area. There are some tracks of raw land as well as some other properties that might benefit from this proposed plan. I would like to pm on the table for you one minor change and if you were to find this project acceptable I would encourage to incorporate that change. Hardee's restaurant which is CC-2 zone was not included in the original plan, it's owner contacted me, it seems only fair that Hardee's with a competitor directly across the street from it that cotrid take advantage of this should also be incorporated into the planning process and it's Item number 10 calling for a hearing on the 15th. David. Anything else. So sit down. No I'm sorry David. David Schoon/Are there any other questions? Lehman/Yea David, how does this compare with the urban renewal plan we adopted for the central business district 10-12 months ago? Schoon/We adopted an urban revitalization plan which is differera that an urban renewal plan and under the urban revitalization plan it provides for property tax exemption and there are four schedules that are in all of our urban revitalization plans, two in particular that apply to the downtown. In terms of commercial uses one is for 100 percent for three years and the other is a 10 year declining percentage scale. So that' s different than what' s being proposed trader the urban renewal plan which is under the urban revitalization plan the value the added value is exempt from taxation, the property owner pays no tax on that added value under the urban renewal plan and the TIF rebate the property owner has to pay their tax with their annual tax obligation but then that is rebated to the. Lehman/What' s the net difference in revenue under the two plans? Schoon/Over the life of either of them it would be about $40,000. Lehman/No, no, bm I mean the difference between the two are they fairly similar in the amount of, in one case they don't pay the taxes and the other one they get rebated with taxes, are the two similar amounts? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 38 Schoons' No, under the 7 year rebate the savings would be about $180,000 over the seven year period per million dollar added value. Over the exemption over the I think the 10 year declining percentage is the larger one, it's $140,000 per million I believe. So there is a greater savings under the 7 year TIF rebate. Lehman/OK I see, OK. Pfab/OK could you do an envelope or napkin (can't hear) a napkin presentation for the, that would be, that the average citizen could understand what that means. Schoon/Can David do that Karin, for the meetings tomorrow night? Pfab/Well I'd prefer it tonight. Lehman/Well I also think though Irvin which item is this? Franklin/Nine. Lehman/I think that we should have David I think it would be a good idea to have an explanation real, you're right an envelope / napkin simple sort of presentation as to what it actually means to the city. O'Donnell/The difference in the two. Lehman/No, well not that so much but just what this does for those folks. Champion/And what it does mean for the city (can't hear). Pfab/Right, well I mean is it, I mean, is the average family trying to make a living here in Iowa City are they going to say or is right for them to question why if they pay their taxes why other people shouldn't have to by getting a tax rebate or not having to pay them and who might be in the more need of some assistance or some relief. Vanderhoef/Well for me on that Irvin there are some real advantages to the city, the advantages are not only to the owners of the property. And obviously in the rebate plan we will set some criteria that they must meet before they get a rebate, that' s number one. Number two is that after the seven years the city forever after will have all of that tax money which is positive because it comes into our general fund those tax moneys and those are general fund moneys which is where are least able to change that so building a tax base, so if we increase the value of that property out there we obviously are going to get more taxes back in the long run and they're going to continue to come back. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 39 Pfab/Well I, in my training as doing in financial work I was always told the dollar today was worth a lot more than a dollar tomorrow and. Champion/We might not (can't hear). Pfab/Right but so my point is these are good times, this is a very prosperous city, unemployment is high, or employment is high and I'm questioning if these people can't need this to make it. Is it a viable project to (croft hear). O'Donnell/This is a long term investment in Iowa City. Pfab/Something like Old Capitol Mall right. O'Donnell/Irvin this, and they will be paying taxes they just don't pay immediate taxes on the improved portion. Pfab/Well what's the dollars, what's the total dollars? Wilburn/The rebate is on, the rebate is on the. Vanderhoef/Increased value. Wilburn/The increased value, so they're still paying taxes, their not paying the interest (can't hear). Pfab/Then what I would. Kanner/Then they get a rebate on the $180,000 for every million dollars. Pfab/So how many million dollars does that involve? Lehman/You know I think we can get a lot of this cleared up with you David, either walk us through this, give us a thumbnail sketch including the what would be required of those, what would be the requirements the city would have in order to qualify. Pfab/OK before you go, before you start, I, pardon me for the personal interruption here. What, why, if this, why are we going this way rather than not using economic development money to do this? Lehman/Why don't you let David explain it and then we'll talk about that. Pfab/I mean that's, I'm giving him something to put in his pipe while he smokes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 40 Schoon/OK so. O'Donnell/You better be careful with that comment. Schoon/I guess I'm a little lost at what your looking for other than an explanation for what we're providing the developer. Lehman/And what we expect in return. Schoon/OK I think the number one objective we have is the revitalization of the commercial activity in this area. It has been in distress for some time and from a city perspective to provide the residents of the community an opportunity to have a vibrant viable commercial retail shopping experience in the southeast part of the community is a goal that I think is one we should strive to achieve. Then we have the other objectives we list in the plan, increasing the property tax base is another one which Dee mentioned earlier. So the developers are looking to revitalize this mall and the city from comments from the business community as Steve said from our survey to residents that we've heard from, issues we're working on in the Pepperwood area that we need to revitalize the commercial activity in the southeast part of town. And so we have some developers who are willing to make an investment in that project and so the city is looking to provide them with assistance to help us achieve a goal that we have. And so we meant with them and talked about the different options that we could provide them. We tended to lean more towards the conservative options and that is foregoing the property tax that this project would generate versus providing dollars up front which is a little more risky than if we, we provide the dollars up front then we bear more risk in terms of the success of the project. It's a little less risk if what we're doing is passing on future increases in property taxes. So we looked at the two options that we've made available to other projects in the community from industrial projects to commercial projects in the downtown that was tax increment financing and property tax exemption. Using traditional tax increment financing where we the city would incur a debt up front, provide a dollars to the developer and then those dollars are repaid back through the incremental property taxes. In talking with our bond attorney given that we're not looking at public infrastructure improvements but we're looking at providing dollars for private investment that it becomes much more difficult to use tax increment financing for the project and it becomes less advantageous. So using a traditional TIF mechanism in terms of providing the cash up front and then having it repaid over time it didn't look as favorable to use that mechanism. So then we looked at the TIF rebate idea which is using the same TIF mechanism but instead of issuing debt up front over time every annually the developer after they pay their property tax they then need to demonstrate that they have met certain criteria which we are still in the process of working with the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 41 developer and negotiating with the developer on. They need to demonstrate that they meet those criteria and that once they do that then we rebate those tax dollars that they paid in that year. Wilburn/No improvements, no tax rebate. Schoon/Right. Yea, you make a certain amount of investment, you have a certain, a criteria, it could be from a certain amount of investment to maintaining one major anchor or two major anchors to you have certain physical sight improvements that we would expect to help the visually revitalize the area. So those are the things and that we're working with them on and so once they meet those criteria then we would rebate annually those dollars back to them for a period of 7 years. Lehman/Now the rebate is on the increased taxes. Schoon/Correct, only. Lehman/Now OK, would we have, as one of our criteria would we have a requirement that the tax bate, that the assessed valuation would be increased by a minimum of, minimum of X percent like we do with the tax abatement in the central business district, you have to improve by a minimum of 15 percent or you can't qualify. Schoon/That's something. Lehman/We would have a similar sort of requirement so it would require substantial investment on the part of the private developer in order to take advantage of this (can't hear). Champion/It's a great opportunity for the city to help redevelop that land without putting actual cash into it. Lehman/Now we're setting the public hearing tomorrow night which will probably means there will, well I don't, if we're, most of the discussion that we're having right now is probably discussion that should be held at the public hearing rather than tonight. Schoon/If you have questions in terms of how the mechanism works. Lehman/Yea, OK. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 42 Schoon/(cm~'t hear) more information if you're getting into the politics, the issues of whether it's appropriate as Irvin started to talk about is this an appropriate mechanism to provide one segment of the community over the other that may be something you'd want to hold for your public hearing. Lehman/I think that is for the public hearing. I mean we set the public heating basically without I would think with a minimum of discussion, discussion relative to whether or not it's a good idea and how one idea is better than an other probably is best for the public hearing so the public understands what. Champion/(can't hear). Schoon/But I think it is also if I mean if. Lehman/The public hearing, we will vote yes or no after a public hearing. Champion/Right. Lehman/But I think you need the public hearing in order to get pro and cons as to. Pfab/Well I think it's apparent to warn the person here what we as Council people would be looking for, for him to bring to this. And one of them, my question is this. If we're looking for a way to help which I have some question whether it's really necessary or not but when you look at the general condition but them are other alternatives and I'm saying that we have, in the city budget there are economic development dollars that could be used and they could be used to help let's say provide child care after they got this thing going so they could, so they'd have a better pool of qualified workers there. You know we'll help them and it's, I don't it's a, it's not a slum area. Champion/(can't hear) keep it over there. O'Donnell/It's not a slum area Irvin. Pfab/(can't hear). O'Donnell/It's de~nately depressed. Champion/Right. Pfab/Well no. (All talking). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 43 Vanderhoef/It's depressed. Lehman/One at a time. O'Donnell/It's an opportunity to spur economic development in that area and increase a tax base. Kanner/At what measurement is it depressed Mike in using US figures of depression? O'Donnell/There is nothing there. Kanner/Are there homeless people living there? O'Donnell/There's no one in the mall. There's no place for them to even shop. Champion/(can't hear) downtown depressed but (can't hear). O'Donnell/I mean let's encourage economic growth in that area we have none. Kanner/The question, the question is. Vanderhoef/David could you give us the figures on the assessed value of the mall as it was 10 years ago as compared to the assessed value today. Schoon/As of 10 years ago I don't know that right now, but of recent. Vanderhoef/The reassessment obviously is. Schoon/The decrease by approximately $3 million over the last three to five years. Lehman/Steven, Steven's (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Those are the kinds of things that are important to look at because that's our tax base. Kanner/Do they feel that they wouldn't go ahead with their development plans if they did not receive this TIF? Have they told you point blank that they would not. Schoon/I think in terms of the rate at which this area redevelops that the city providing this incentive could spur that occurring more quickly. Champion/I don't think it's important whether they progress or not. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 44 Kanner/You must not. Champion/No I don't think that's, I don't need to have that portion of the answer that I mean they have so much money they could do without this but I'm not going to ask that question I think it's more important that we as a Council and as a city help move this economic development in that area forward and this is no major sacrifice for us, it's actually an investment for us. And it's an investment for the future, we will paid back. Vanderhoef/Many times. Champion/Many times if this project is successful and I really don't need to know the economics of this company that's going to revitalize this area. I totally support this, I think it's an excellent idea and I'm glad to see that they are doing it and making use of it, and we ought to be doing it a lot. Kanner/Connie the question was not what their economics but would they do it without the TIF and I think it is hurtful to the city and that we've heard from our City Manager that we need increased property taxes and we're taking away a stream of revenue by giving this TIF. Champion/There might not be a stream or revenue from that project from that land at all if it keeps becoming more and more depressed. Kanner/Well that's important to find out if they would do the project without the TIF. Did they do the project down at Ward without TIF. Schoon/Gateway Center there was no TIF or no property taxes. Kanner/And that' s pretty successful fight, has it increased in value? Schoon/It has increased in value. O'Donnell/So has the tax base in this particular group with Sycamore has in my mind a proven track record and I'm going to be just as supportive of this group as I can because we need to do something to revitalize that particular area. It's clear as I can say (can't hear). Pfab/I believe that the market conditions provided a big incentive there, I would imagine the people that bought in did, bought this at a discount. Because the Sycamore mall was started there and I'm going to use a figurative term and it's not This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 45 derogative but it's pretty pointed is at that point those law managers were the 800 pound gorilla's so if a person wanted, what's the store, what do you call them? Lehman/Anchor. Pfab/Anchor stores, they want to get into Iowa City and just where do you go and we're going to dictate the terms. Well the 800 pound gorilla took a walk, he found a banana in another tree so that left these people not able to set their own rates so that changed the value of that property. Now these new developers don't have that problem because they bought in at a lot different. O'Donnell/No Irvin, you know I'd just as soon keep this out of the Brookfield Zoo. Pfab/No, no, no. O'Donnell/We are speaking, they do have a problem there, there is no anchor and this is the incentive to improve it which will increase the tax base and it will benefit the city, property taxes will go on, it encourages them to develop the property. Which down the road increases taxes which come to the city, and there isn't an anchor and this is an incentive to develop the property and jump start these sights. Pfab/OK so then that approach I'm going to suggest very strongly we use the money from the economic development funds which we have, the city has put off to a side and say as you get this developed we'll help you with the employment, maybe it's daycare, maybe it's transportation and just provide something like that. So we can give them the same dollars but put it in a different form. Champion/I'm not willing to do that. Lehman/Well I would not refer. Vanderhoef/They can apply for those kinds of funds later on if they had a business or a business chose to come because this plan allows the people who come into the project to apply for either the rebate and they may look at us and the Economic Development Committee and say would you look at something for training workers or like you say day care but that' s a whole another piece, that isn't this piece, this one has to be in place first to my mind. Pfab/Well the city provides very adequate infrastructure, a good climate, there's a good population base here to draw from and at the same time if these people, if these taxes are not paid by these people somebody else has to pay it. Dilkes/No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 46 Vanderhoef/No. Lehman/Hold it Irvin, first of all the taxes will remain at least the same as they are now whether or not we have an urban renewal district. That will remain the same. Pfab/I hear you and I respectfully disagree and we can go on. Lehman/No, no, but they will remain the same whether you disagree or not, the income to the city will be the same as it is now. Now we have been in the 6 or 7 years I've been on the Council we've had people from the east side of town complain time and time again about the situation on the southeast part of town. I think the Economic Development Committee has identified this as a very important area to the community, one that is obviously certainly it's not a slum, it's been depressed, that Sycamore has been basically not occupied anywhere near the extent that it could be and should be. We have spent by some people's measure an inordinate amount of money in the downtown and that has been perceived by many people as a subsidy to those people who are downtown, people on the east side are crying what we need someone to help us. We have the opportunity to jump start this problem, now I think they'll make it go without us Steve, I think it will go without us. I don't think it will go the extent that it will with us, I do not want to invest public money in a private project, cash dollars whether it be economic development dollars or a bond issue or anything else. I would much rather see them use what amottnts to abatement taxes even though we do it. Pfab/That's public money. Lehman/Pardon. Pfab/That's public money. Lehman/That may well be but it's their money going back, it's the increased value that their putting into that property if they want to use that money to increase the amount that they spend, we're going to get it in taxes sooner or later. They might use that for a daycare center that' s fine, I have no problem with the city helping those folks in that area and I absolutely support this 1 O0 percent and the same thing is true of the Pepperwood area. Pfab/Well after, after, after we take care of them how many more people are going to come down and say well you helped them why don't you help this. Now, at what time are we going to say we're going to close the trough7 Lehman/You're saying you don't see a demonstrated need. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 47 Pfab/I don't. Lehman/I do. Steve. Champion/Oh I do. Pfab/Not in the building, maybe if we wanted, if that's where your economic people come in at the end and say OK we'll help you with the employees instead of giving the money to the developer that probably doesn't need as much as the employees and it also helps them as once they get this thing going. Champion/Well you won't have any employees if you don't get the area revitalized. O'Do~mell/Right. Vanderhoef/There won't be any jobs there. Lehman/Steven. Kanner/David, two questions. Are the financial assistant eligibility guidelines appropriate here or is this something that does not fall into their per view? And then does the money that gets TIF'd does that go back into private improvements in the property? Schoon/The TIF rebate. Kanner/Yea. Lehman/Yea. Schoon/Well the TIF rebate would go back to the developer. Kanner/And they can do whatever they'd like with that. Isn't there some TIF where you set criteria that the money can be used for? Schoon/What it can be used for. Atkins/The developer's agreement David will. Vanderhoef/That will go with the criteria. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 48 Schoon/They wll have made the investment prior to receiving the rebate. I mean they have to invest in the site to receive the rebate because there would be no added value to the site until the investment has been made so that they will then have to calculate into their performa this rebate that they will be receiving when they are planning and preparing to make the improvements to the site but that rebate won't come until after they've made the improvements. Vanderhoef/And from their side of it they're looking at those dollars as helping to pay off the improvements that they made there so. O'Donnell/Right. Vanderhoef/Yea it truly is cycling the money back through but it's money that they are not borrowing or their borrowing short term rather than long term. Kanner/But sometime isn't TIF used if it's not exactly a rebate it could be something that's put into public infrastructure. (can't hear) Schoon/Yes it could be one way you use TIF revenue. Kanner/So we can talk about that as a possibility too. Schoon/We did talk about. Kanner/That that money we rebate would go back into public infrastructure of some sort. Schoon/Well I don't know, we did talk about using tax increment financing for public infrastructure improvements that would be needed in the area. We were, with the developer we were unable to identify public infrastructure improvements that are necessary in the area. Kanner/Can it go into things like on site child care like Irvin was talking about? Schoon/That' s not a public infrastructure. Lehman/It's not a public infrastructure. Kanner/I know I'm saying can it go into that by trader state law? Vanderhoef/No. Champion/No. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 49 Schoon/You could if you wanted to in the developer's agreement that you, that we negotiate with the developers require that they provide a child care center in the facility. I mean now that would be something they would have to agree to but you could negotiate that into a developer's agreement. Kanner/OK and what about the other question about the financial assistance eligibility guidelines. Schoon/When we established the central business district urban revitalization area, that was a question that came up and what we did, we did use those criteria when evaluating the use of the urban of establishing the urban revitalization area. It becomes more difficult to use those criteria, they tend to be very project specific job creation oriented versus revitalization renewal oriented but the TIF and the abatement programs have been up to this point so what we've done is we have gone through them in the past and will do that again in very general terms, reviewing the criteria and how this particular projects or falls with the. (END OF 00-76 SIDE 1 ) Lehman/David let me ask you this, tomorrow we're going to I assume we're going to, I assume that were going to set a public hearing which will be August 15 which is what 4 weeks away. Will, during the time, by setting, by setting the public hearing I guess that indicates an interest on the part of the Council to see this move forward. Champion/Great. Lehman/Will there, will you be then working with these folks developing criteria between now and the 15th so that at that hearing. Does the hearing go just to the merits of whether or not we want to do it or does the hearing go with any specifics? Schoon/The hearing goes to the merits establishing this mechanism. Lehman/Which is basically what we're talking about today, I mean this discussion we've had tonight probably is relative and should be held at the public hearing. Should we just set. Schoon/What then will happen, now this project is here before so it will come much sooner but there may be other projects in the future in this area that then you will have a discussion on in particular's a developer's agreement. So this just establishes a mechanism to allow us to provide TIF rebates. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 50 Lehman/It still requires approval of the actual agreements and the terms and all of that and I think this is a rather time consuming process, it runs into November or something I believe. Schoon/Oh no September. Vanderhoef/September 19. Lehman/Is that the final reading? Vanderhoef/Yea. Lehman/OK, I'm sorry I don't have that with me. OK. Vanderhoef/But what we. Schoon/If we follow the standard schedule. Vanderhoef/What we have to remember on this whole thing is we are setting a district so we have a lot of small business owners with one single property all along up and down First Avenue and now we're adding one that is there on Lower Muscatine and those people will all be coming in specific to their own project after we get the district set up. Lehman/If they choose to. O 'Donnell/If they want to. Vanderhoef/Yea. Lehman/Many of them won't. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Vanderhoef/It happened to be that the Sycamore Mall owners came and looked at this and said what can we do and because we've been looking at revitalization and putting some oompf into the southeast district. O'Donnell/Putting what? Vanderhoef/Oompf. Lehman/Spell that will you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 51 Vanderhoef/Oompf. O'Donnell/OK, I was curious that's. Vanderhoef/So anyway this is a whole lot more than just for Sycamore Mall, this is for a lot of folks in that area and I'm real excited about it. O'Donnell/Good. Vanderhoef/And feel like we can work out some good criteria for individual projects wherever they may be. Pfab/I guess my question is at what point does it become a break even thing for the city? How much time and manpower and efforts are going to be put in by the city? How much is this process going to cost the individual developers? And at what point does the city say well we're now even? 2020. O'Donnell/I don't think it's ever break even. Vanderhoef/No. O'Donnell/I think it's always a plus on our side. Vanderhoef/At the end of 7 years we'll have full value of whatever the assessed value is on those properties. Champion/And it's bound to go up with any improvement. Lehman/If it doesn't there won't be any rebate. Champion/Right and if it doesn't improve they'll probably sell it again I mean so. Vanderhoef/There won't be any rebates. Pfab/We can start all over again. Champion/Right, it's penny wise and pound foolish Irvin to think that you shouldn't do this, it's not really costing you anything. It might costing (can't hear). Pfab/It's costing the people that have to pay taxes for these taxes that are not. Champion/No it's not. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 52 Lehman/Irvin, no, Irvin has a point and I think you make your point, the value of the Sycamore Mall has decreased by over $3 million dollars because of the level of economic activity out there. And you don't think that cost you and me dollars on our taxes? Here' s an opportunity to help see that money come back. Pfab/But that is already past. Lehman/That's right you want to see more of it? Pfab/No, no, but that's past because the person that put that money in it wasn't able to take it out to new it, the new developers didn't have to put that money in so they have a lot lower base to start from. Lehman/But we've lost substantial tax revenue. Pfab/But that wasn't, that wasn't the city's fault, that wasn't the, but it was the owner's fault, it says hey we're going to go down with the chip. Champion/Well obviously we're not going to convince you about it so. Lehman/Well I thimk this is an opportunity. Champion/It is. Vanderhoef/Absolutely. Schoon/There's just one last thing I need to pass out, making a change on page 3. Champion/And we're going to make that change about Hardee's too fight? Schoon/Correct. It's just making it consistent throughout the plan. On page 3 it talks about direct grants and loans, we're not using grants and loans for private improvements, we're just going to be using the rebate mechanism. Pfab/Where does this, is this point on any particular spot on the? Lehman/It's on page 3 in the plan. Pfab/Oh it's on the bottom. Schoon/Yea it's on the bottom, it's been struck through and it's double under scored. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 53 Pfab/(Can't hear) I see where the corrections are OK. Kanner/And are any Council Members planning to go to the consultation on the 241h? Because I don't think we can have more than three there. Lehman/Consultation with. Kanner/We're setting a consultation here for July 24. Schoon/State law requires that we hold a consultation with the other taxing entities. Lehman/Oh that's with the school district, the County, and whatever? Schoon/Yea and Kirkwood. Lehman/I'm not planning on going. Champion/I'm not planning on going. O'Donnell/I think we should send our Economic Development task force there. Champion/Yes. O'Donnell/A wonderful opportunity for them. Vanderhoef/I will happily. Lehman/You can not send Economic Development Task Force because that is a legal committee of the Council and it would make it an open meeting and require all of the things that open meetings that have. All talking. (Can't hear). Lehman/You couldn't send two of them either so if one. Vm~derhoef/Could go. O'Donnell/Well let me rephrase that I think we should send a member. Lehman/That' s what I thought you said. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 54 Vanderhoef/Mr. Mayor. Lehman/Well no I really would prefer that someone else would go, I have a lot of. Pfab/(can't hear). Lehman/I'd go if you want me to go but. Champion/Then make them decide which one should go. Lehman/We'll decide among the three of us at, oh I don't know how we're going to make, wait a minute. That would be pretty illegal too. Vanderhoef/To meet to see. Lehman/Which one of us would like to go to the meeting? Vanderhoef/What's the date? Lehman/241h, is that correct? Schoon/Yes Monday the 241h at 10:00 AM. Lehman/Oh at 10:00 in the morning, I can not go so that eliminates me. That's a week from today, 10:00 AM. Dee you've got it, Dee Vanderhoef will go to represent the Economic Development Committee of the Chamber. Champion/And this would be another meeting or of City Council members would not be talking or would they be talking? Lehman/Well there will only be three and if they choose to speak I, my strong suspension is that this is pretty much an input situation between the school board and the County. Schoon/Correct and then their given an opportunity to respond in writing and then we have so many days to respond back to them in writing. Letunan/And we would probably receive their written responses as a Council so we'd have an opportunity to see that so it's a matter of you, us presenting our concept and their giving their reaction in writing (can't hear). So Dee is going to that meeting, who else would like to go to that meeting. Pfab/I want to go. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 55 Lehman/Irvin. Kanner/I can't make it. O'Donnell/I can not make it. Lehman/Well we've got two people there. Connie doesn't want to go, all right. Thank you David very much. Schoon/Thank you. O'Donnell/Thank you. Lehman/The next item. Champion/However if you thought it was essential that 3 of us were there I would go but I don't think it is essential. O'Donnell/I would like to suggest that Connie goes. Lehman/I think Connie should go as well. The next item on the agenda is a part time person for Eleanor's office. Additional Part-time Attorney Lehman/Eleanor would you like to in five words or less (can't hear). Your very succinct but I wouldn't expect that. Dilkes/I think the memo pretty much says it, I think the request for a half time person as opposed to a full time person is a reflection both of the fact that I think there are tasks that I can give that half time person that would be discrete enough to make it work as well as some sensitivity to the fact that I know your always concerned about general fund money. A couple facts that I didn't put in the memo. I went back and looked at the file and about 6-8 years ago when we were paying an outside attorney just to do magistrates court, not the municipal infractions, just magistrates court, the simple misdemeanors, speeding, public intox, all that stuff we were paying $20,000 in outside counsel to do that about 6 years ago. So I think getting a half time person for this amount, for this cost is a pretty good deal. I think we need it, I think. Wilburn/The Council shouldn't be surprised because we've talked about this earlier in the year so. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 56 O'Donnell/It's good enough for me. Vanderhoef/We talked about it a year ago that it was approaching this so this is not a surprise to me. Champion/How are we going to pay for it? Lehman/Well we don't have another (can't hear). Dilkes/Steve. O'Donnel/Well money bag over here. Atkins/Money bag that's right, singular. It will have to be a general fund expense as I. Champion/Do we have it? Atkins/Oh this is not a major item, my concern about the general fund is the accumulative affect if we continue to stack expenses on top of each other. Champion/Eleanor you at one time talked about an intern, did you do that? Dilkes/We have, we do an intern through the Law School. Champion/Good, OK, all right, it's OK with me. Lehman/Do we have consensus on this with Council? O'Donnell/Yes we do. Vanderhoef/Yea. Lehman/You're welcome. Council ~5chedule Lehman/Council schedule, I presume this which we have received shows, the only change that I see is September 15 is that? Vanderhoef/No. Karr/There are two or three there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 57 Lehman/I'm sorry go ahead Marian. Karr/The first one, the first one is September 5th and there are a number of issues related to that one, basically that was the one, Labor Day is that Monday. Lehman/Right. Karr/You tentatively planned for combined work session. Lehman/Right. Karr/And that work session is shaping up that there' s going to be a number of items that make it prudent to have a special, or a separate night for it rather than trying to combine it into the same evening that your going to be acting on some of it. O'Donnell/Good. Karr/So we simply again recommended moving it forward rather than backward, there's no magic in that, that was just a recommendation. Lehman/Well move to the 281h and 291h of August rather than. Karr/No move to the 1 lth and 12th of September, so you'd have two in August and two in September rather than having three in August and one in September. Champion/That's OK. O'Donnell/Yea. Vanderhoef/That' s four weeks betwixt meetings in there and another alternative since this is a special meeting anyway would anybody consider doing Tuesday and Wednesday? Lehman/No. Pfab/No. Vanderhoef/Instead of Monday and Tuesday. Lehman/I think Council meetings need to be on Tuesdays, the public expects that. Champion/The other thing though is that if there was something that had to be. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 58 Vanderhoef/I'm real concemed with four weeks. O'Donnell/We can have a special meeting. Champion/Adopted in that month we could have a quick meeting like that. Karr/Oh that's a possibility of course, and again in all of these scenarios the real importance is not only to get your consensus of course to schedule them but so we can get back to staff so they know ahead of time and can schedule them accordingly also. Lehman/Well is it an option to have an August 281h and 291h? Karr/We certainly, we certainly can do that? Lehman/Is there a feeling one way or the other as to whether or not you'd whether you'd do 281h and 291h of August or wait until the 1 lth and 12th of September? O'Donnell/I don't see any problem with having it in September, I really don't. Lehman/It's four weeks, obviously if we need a special meeting in there we can always call a special meeting. O'Donnell/We can call it of course. Kanner/Ernie what I think maybe is more confusing to people is getting away from the one and three when it was just every other week it was hard to follow and we're trying to get into one and three pattern. Lehman/First and Third that' s right. Kanner/And I think Tuesday and Wednesday might be better than pushing it off again like we've done so many other times. Lehman/I hate Wednesday meetings though I think the public doesn't expect Council meetings on Wednesday nights. Pfab/What about we hold the work session at an unusual or different time? Lehman/Well we've (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 59 Pfab/(can't hear) I mean anytime before or maybe during. It is no reason, it looks to me like it would not be very difficult to do the formal meeting on Tuesday, it's the work session that causes us the problem. Champion/But if you do the work session on Friday you're getting into the weekend and that's a holiday weekend. Pfab/No, no, no, I'm just saying I don't know maybe Tuesday moming, I don't know, I'm just. Lehman/Well I think. Pfab/It doesn't, I don't have a dog in this fight. Lehman/Well no but we and it's always (can't hear) Marian we anticipate there could be a fair amount of work to be done. Vanderhoef/That's why. Karr/Yes. Lehman/On that 5th the other thing we could conceivably do is start the work session earlier. Karr/We can it's just the same night as your going to be acting on items so that by the time you. Lehman/(can't hear). Karr/Well it's the length but it also the time for staff to respond but we certainly can do that. Lehman/281h. Champion/Should we do it the 1 lth or 127 Lehman/1 lth and 12th or 281h and 291h, what do we do? O'Donnell/1 lth and 12th. Champion/1 lth and 12th. Kanner/What about (can't hear). This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 60 O'Donnell/If we need a special meeting we can call it. Kanner/Or the 5th and 6th. Lehman/Is there anybody who wants to have it on the 5th and 6th besides Steven I think? Pfab/That's a Wednesday. Lehman/That' s a Wednesday. Kanner/Tuesday at night. Pfab/I don't want to take it away from Tuesday. Lehman/All right the 1 lth and 12th are we, that' s a go. Karr/So the 1 lth and 12th of September. Lehman/That's right. Karr/OK, the other suggestion or observation we noticed. Atkins/Marian, we dropped the 5th then? Karr/Yes we dropped the 5th. Lehman/Yes. Karr/We've rescheduled the 5th to the 1 lth and 12th. OK the next one is affecting the end of November and quite clearly what we've done there is you've got a scheduled meeting for Thanksgiving week November 20th and 21 st, which is your third Tuesday of November, then you also have a meeting the 1 st of December which conflicts with the National League of Cities, so by. Lehman/Have them change their meeting. Karr/So therefore our suggestion was you move the Thanksgiving week to a week later to November 271h and 281h, still having two meetings in November and then canceling your first meeting in December. Champion/That's a good idea. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 61 Karr/Again that' s. Vanderhoef/You know what I don't like about it is I'm going to be a packet over the holiday. Champion/Why what does that (can't hear). Kanner/Yea and I'm not going to. Vanderhoef/Well that' s Thanksgiving and instead of having it the week of Thanksgiving and having Council meeting completed on Tuesday before Thanksgiving on Thursday you know because if I get my packet on Wednesday and I have Thanksgiving or I go out of town for the whole weekend to get back and. Karr/As I noted to Dee today if you'd like to simply leave the schedule in November the 20th and 21st which would mean you'd be done with the packet you'd have a Council meeting Monday and Tuesday of Thanksgiving. Then you could cancel your meeting of December 4th and 5th which conflicts with the National League of Cities or you would move it a week later, but then you'd have four meetings in two weeks in December which typically hasn't been. Kanner/Gee the meeting doesn't meet until Wednesday for the League of Cities. Karr/There are some subcommittees ahead of that. Champion/Why don't we eliminate the December 5th meeting and keep the Thanksgiving meeting where it's at. Karr/Retain the November 20th and 21 st and cancel the 4th and 5th. Champion/We've done that before we've canceled December meetings. Lehman/How many would like to keep November 20th and 21 st? Vanderhoef/Yes. Lehman/Great OK you've got a go. Karr/OK that' s our regular meeting. Lehman/Right. Karr/So what do you want to do with your November 4th and 5th meeting? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 62 Champion/Well cancel it for (can't hear). Lehman/You mean December 4th and 5th? Karr/I'm sorry excuse me, yes December 4th and 5th. Champion/We' 11 cancel it for continuing education credits. Lehman/December 4th and 5th is League of Cities is that right? Atkins/Yea. Karr/Yea. Lehman/Well then we'll move that to the 1 lth and 12th? Karr/We could do that so you could have four meetings in December back to back. Champion/No cancel it. Karr/Because your meeting the 18th and 19th. Lehman/We haven't always met four times in December. Karr/No you have not. Kanner/We're meeting, you're saying the 12th and the 19th? Karr/Yes. Kanner/And then we meeting, what's the next time in December? Karr/You're scheduled the 1 st and 3rd so your scheduled the 4th and 5th right now. Kanner/But there will only be two meetings in December. Karr/But if you move the 4th and 5th to a week later they would be back to back. Lehman/Why don't. Kanner/That's all right why don't we do that then. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 63 Lehman/Why don't we tentatively schedule the 1 lth and 12th, we may not need the second meeting in December, that' s happened on occasion has it not? Karr/And you certainly, you certainly can do that so you stay with just your special meeting because your regular meeting in December is the 18th-19th. So you've redone the whole December schedule then by doing that. Lehman/Well except there' s some value in doing the 18th and 19th. Karr/I understand, I understand. So you want to reschedule the 4th and 5th to the 1 lth and 12th. Lehman/Hold it, could, well wait a minute would it be appropriate just to schedule the 18th and 19th which is our regular meeting and have necessary have a special meeting prior to that. Champion/Yea that's what we said. Karr/What a great idea. O'Donnell/Save your movement or what? Lehman/Some how I feel I'm being made fun of. Champion/I think that's perfect, let's get it in. Lehman/Thank you, I make it easy, I make it real easy don't I? Karr/OK so we can do that. Lehman/18th and 19th will be the regular meeting of December, if we need a special meeting prior to that we will call a special one. Champion/(can't hear). Karr/And then the final one was just noting, since we're doing this January 1st and 2nd is our first meeting in 2001 and probably just scheduling that to the 8th and 9th of January because of the holiday. Lehman/My schedule doesn't go that far. Champion/I might not be here, I might not, will I be here for that? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 64 Vanderhoef/Yea. Champion/Oh yea. Atkins/That' s another year Connie. Lehman/It's another senior meeting. ???man/That's next (can't hear). Lehman/It didn't bother me so much if you had kept your mouth quite but now I'm starting to wonder. Champion/It's been a very long day. Karr/OK we'll revise this schedule and send it out. Lehman/Revise it yea, I think that works. Vanderhoef/She'll print it up so we know what we're doing. Lehman/We need special meetings we can call them. Karr/OK. Council Time Kanner/I' ve got. Lehman/Go ahead Steven. Kanner/I've got some things. I'm wondering if we could talk about a compromise on the SEAT lease at all and say that maybe we' 11 give a little and the County and maybe Coralville gives a little and so we all take the burden that if we think it's worthwhile that they move into a new place if it's a good opportunity for SEATS so I throw that out there for some discussion. So not, so we shouldn't bear the burden of the whole $18,000. Lehman/How much of this is a question for the Airport Commission which appears, I believe their autonomous is this their call? Dilkes/It's their call. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 65 Kanner/But I'm also saying maybe we might want to be part of the solution and then we might want to throw in a few thousand dollars and I think it might be worthwhile if it's a good place that they're getting and they don't have that opportunity. Lehman/You know Steven the only problem I have with that is we negotiated that SEATS what 2 years ago now? And if we assist the airport in basically subsidizing the rent we would be increasing the cost of what we've contracted service for. We've contracted that service for X number of dollars a year. If they move out of the airport and we have to increase the subsidy to the airport we are in affect paying more for our SEATS services that we before. After what we went through getting that contract. Champion/Right. Lehman/I'm not sure I'm really interested. Go ahead. Pfab/Is there, is there, would you be interested in any part? I don't know, I'm aware of the problem, I'm not aware, is it something that maybe somebody should look at and see ifthere's anything possible, but you say absolutely none (can't hear). Lehman/I don't know what they expect to gain from us. You're on the SEATS committee, what is that it's such a greater value to them than what they're presently using other than parking their vehicles inside? O'Donnell/It's substantially larger, there's a separate area for washing the vehicles, I believe it's an area where you can have all buses under the roof, the majority of them. Pfab/And all your units, all your activities together. O'Donnell/Everything is in one area, it will be much more efficient. But the rent is substantially higher. Champion/Who owns this property? Lehman/Well it doesn't make any difference. O'Donnell/It don't make any difference. Lehman/Well if this, the rent will be up substantially do they expect that the decrease in cost because of efficiency will make up the balance of the rent? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 66 O'Donnell/No. I, and see, I don't know, it's a lease and it's my feeling that that should be worked out between their, between SEATS, Johnson County and their perspective landlord is what I'm thinking. Pfab/And there might be another party in there. O'Donnell/Well there very well could be. Pfab/Maybe City of Coralville. O'Donnell/But rather than kicking money into help with the lease I would prefer looking at, if we're going to do anything like that I would like to expand services on the weekends and have more services, they need another scheduler, they need, there are many things SEATS needs and that' s one of the things that I'm working on but if we're going to spend any additional money I would rather see it go in the direction of more services. Vanderhoef/Well the dollars actually. Dilkes/I'm going to interrupt, I think this is something you need to put on your agenda if you're going to talk about this in detail, I mean. Kanner/Can we do it and have this? Vanderhoef/Are there four people that are interested? Kanner/Seats director here? Lehman/Well the question you have basically well tell us what is the question you have basically. Kanner/Well basically, see if we could, if it's in the benefit of the community to release them for the lease and contribute in some part along with the other parties involved. Because I want to explore that a little more. Pfab/There is another possibility I do see if. Lehman/I don't think we can talk about it. Dilkes/This is a good example of how, this is an issue, it's been out there, and I think if you want to talk about it detail it needs to get on the agenda so people who are interested have notice about it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 67 Pfab/Good that's a good idea. O'Donnell/And it takes four people to do that. Pfab/But I just want to get on the agenda. O'Donnell/I'm not interested. Champion/I'm not interested. Vanderhoef/I'm not interested. Champion/I don't want to talk about that SEATS contract again (can't hear). Vanderhoef/Until it's due. Wilburn/It's a mute thought now but I guess my thoughts are related to Mike's but I don't know that would necessary come up in having a discussion, it seems like more contract negotiation to me so I guess (can't hear). Lehman/I guess I would suggest that for those who would like to see it on a work session you need to visit privately with some council folks so we can get four people and put it on the agenda or forget about it. Pfab/It's a. Lehman/OK other council time, anything Steven. Kanner/Yea the question about cigarettes and minors and administering the civil fine and we received a letter in response to a letter I wrote from the police chief that our understanding is that the county attorney is suppose to initiate those proceedings and it's not happening so I think we need to put this on the agenda to talk about it to see how we can make it happen if it doesn't come through the county. Dilkes/Yea I know there' s been conversations recently between Andy and my office and Pat White about what the status of this is and so we probably do need to put it on the agenda so we can decide what we're doing. O'Donnell/OK. Lehman/Is that all right? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 68 Kanner/And we have a letter about the bushes on Muscatine going on the sidewalk and I was wondering if we have. Atkins/I don't have an answer for you yet Steve but I'll get you one. Kanner/If you could look into that I'd appreciate that because I yea, especially being tall going into bushes and sitting there hanging out of sidewalks I think we need it all clear. Lehman/Steve when we get letters like that do we routinely respond to those letter? Atkins/We get letters like that, it's sort of, my, if a citizen takes time to write us we write them back. Lehman/Well that' s what I thought, we would respond, OK, very good. Champion/They're looking into the problem. Atkins/We'll find out yea, so they understand even if we have to tell them no they'll get an explanation, I'll get that for you. Kanner/Thank you and two other things just water rate figures that were presented to us at the work session last time I feel were slightly inaccurate and that the figures that were used would be the higher level that we use now for people that use under 3,000 cubic feet and I would just ask if we would get new figures because we would take an average between the high figure and the low figure if we had a flat rate and that would be the new rate so it would not be, I wouldn't imagine it would be tremendous difference but it would lower the increased rates that the high end users are paying. Did you follow me on that? Atkins/Yea. Atkins/And? Lehman/And (can't hear) quite bodies. Vanderhoef/No I didn't. Lehman/The rate increase that we just passed. Pfab/That's all. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 69 Kanner/No no no we're talking about the presentation on flat water rates. Steve told us that the high end users would pay this much more at this flat rate but the flat rate he was using was the maximum rate that people pay now. If one were to assume a flat rate that maximum rate would come down a little bit and the low rate would go up a little bit so we get some number in the middle. So it would be, to get a more accurate picture we would to need to figure out that average which wouldn't be to hard to do. O'Donnell/I thought there, at the last meeting there were four of us that were not interested in pursuing the flat water rate. Champion/We're not. KanneU I'm noting that the figures were not accurate that people based their decision on. Champion/I don't think we based it on the figures, I think we based it on we're not in favor of flat water rate. O'Donnell/On the principal is what it is. Kanner/Well that was the part, the argument was made that. Champion/(can't hear). Kanner/The rates were to high. Champion/(can't hear) in favor of (can't hear) economic decision, it's an economic development decision to me. O'Donnell/And I'm really not interested, (can't hear). Champion/But I see where your point is. O'Donnell/Yea, but it really makes I guess I'm not interested. Champion/I want everybody to know that I did see two policemen on the pedestrian mall today and that everybody was well behaved. Champion/The other issue that I want to bring up and I don't know if this is the proper time by Eleanor you can tell me to be quite if it' s not. But at the meeting with the bar owners the other night and even before the meeting with the bar owners when we were talking about drink specials, I am totally horrified at the idea that adults who own business establishments are willing to put all you can drink for $5.00 in This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 70 front of kids. And I know they are college students, I (can't hear) consider them kids, I do consider them kids and I have real real problems with this. Lehman/You suggest that we set a time to talk about these issues at a work session where we can look at all those sorts of things that came up and start moving forward. Champion/Yes, and I, absolutely, and I. Lehman/That' s what I thought you said. Champion/And we also need to look at, the other thing I want to look at at the same time is enforcing our occupancy laws which I've never seen enforced. O'Donnell/Fire code. Lehman/That would be part of the same thing. Champion/Fire code great all right because I think and I think to do that as soon as possible. Lehman/I agree Connie. Pfab/What do you mean the occupancy level? Champion/How many people are in the space. O'Donnell/Put it in fire code. Pfab/I just didn't understand what you meant. Lehman/Steve I would suggest that we put that on the earliest possible work session, now that' s obviously, we' ve got a lot of things. Atkins/(can't hear). Lehman/It's going to take a lot of time, in fact we may end up having to have a special work session. Champion/I would even be willing to meet another time to do this. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 71 Lehman/Yea I would too but I do think based on that meeting and what we heard obviously we're going to have to start looking at options and the sooner we do it probably the better. Dilkes/I'm going to give you that, in this weeks packet that real quick list of options and sort of just put possible, needs more research, not possible. Champion/Oh great. Dilkes/You can do it just real brief. Lehman/All right, thank you. Vanderhoef/I want this before the public hearing with the students and so forth, I want to have a handle on those kinds of things. Champion/That little list is just going to go this week. Atkins/Your meeting before the students I think makes some sense. Champion/And this is a subject that's not even related to the 21 law. OK the other thing. Kanner/Well just to finish up on this, and at this meeting we're going to have this work session we should be ready to set a date for this meeting with the community and the students at large I think we should keep that in mind. Lehman/I agree with Steve but I think we have to have something to tell them before we have a public meeting, I think we need to look at the various options, define those and if we're able to do that at one work session fine but if we're not we need to have some idea. Dilkes/You won't be able to because the way envision it is at that work session your going to tell me which of those items you want us to pursue and it's going to take a while to pursue them. Lehman/Which of those items to pursue. But we need to be ready when we when our position to do so I think that's right but I do think we have to have something to talk about first. Pfab/So what's the, the general discussion is it's going to take more time to get it ready? Lehman/Yes. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 72 Pfab/Is that what's? Lehman/Yes and I think Eleanor if this would work I believe that after reviewing which we will receive in the packet the, your information as to what are possible maybe's and not possible we could put as a much smaller item on a work session these are the items we think we want to pursue rather than give it a whole evening. Dilkes/Sure. Lehman/And then when we receive your response from that we might schedule a special meeting to discuss those responses. Vanderhoef/Yes. Pfab/In other words your talking a public issue, a public heating. Lehman/I'm talking a work session. Pfab/Work session OK. Lehman/Public meeting will come after we have something to talk about. Pfab/OK and how much lead time do we need for the public hearing? Lehman/I don't think you need much lead time for this item. Pfab/OK, I was afraid maybe you were going to say 4 to 6 weeks or something. Lehman/No I think the sooner the better. All right. Pfab/Then I would say, if it's the short time then I'm not concerned but it's a long time then I think we ought to maybe anticipate a little and try to aim (can't hear). Lehman/Irvin I suspect that if we told the public we were going to act on this Thursday we could feel this place tomorrow night. Pfab/I'll accept your counsel. Lehman/Other council time. O'Donnell/I have a quick thing, the ADA parade is coming up on the 241h. Lehman/The what? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 73 O'Donnell/The ADA parade. Lehman/Oh yea. Vanderhoef/It's this Saturday, get your T-shirts out guys. Champion/And what are we going to do? I don't have my yellow pickup any more. Vanderhoef/Oh. O'Donnell/Can you buy one? No but we should have, we should have, I'd like to see a large percentage of us to participate in that, it's very good, it will be 10:00 in the morning. Lehman/If somebody wants to drive my pickup they can, I can't I have sidewalk sales. Atkins/We could get you a big mustard yellow pickup. Lehman/Oh I have a bright red one that somebody could drive. Atkins/Oh I don't know about bright red. Pfab/(can't hear). Atkins/I was going to say it's loaded with gravel and branches and sort of other things. O'Donnell/Well and as a last alternative folks we could always walk, you know it's not that far and we're going to walk from. Lehman/This Saturday at 10:00. Vanderhoef/And it's going to be crowded down there. Pfab/And I'm even told there are even watering holes. O'Donnell/There will be water. Pfab/Holes along the way. O'Donnell/But it's very good, this thing is growing every year and (can't hear) it's a good thing to participate in. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 74 Lehman/Well it's coming up Saturday. Atkins/It's the 22nd Mike, you said 241h. O'Donnell/I meant the 22nd. Thank you for clarifying me, it's just like being at home. Lehman/OK. Champion/And it's too bad that there are sidewalks downtown. Lehman/OK Ross. Wilburn/OK a couple items I wanted to call your attention to the letter that we received from United Action for Youth about the volunteer, well the staff and volunteers that interact with the young people downtown. And I'm going to be talking with that staff person about trying to make contact with some of those business people so you can see them by face and maybe during some of these Saturday, early evening or late evening hours if Connie sees someone on a roller blade or roller blading or skate board she doesn't haven't to tackle them herself she can see if some of the staff over here, they' 11 get them go talk to them. Lehman/Good letter. O'Donnell/It's a, yea very good. Wilburn/This other thing I want to bring up and this isn't necessarily for an extended conversation tonight but we also received correspondence and been lobbied and you've seen in the press about the possibility or the concept of renaming the Civic Center. In this case for Iowa City's first woman mayor, I'm supportive of it, I, and I think it's appropriate to, it can be an appropriate thing to name a civic building, city hall even though it's not called city hall after someone who's been on council, someone who's been involved in municipal government. In addition to just the fact that Iowa City has been home to many first women items activities historically. I guess rather than relay on media stuff and I haven't had a chance to contact you individually I'm wanting to know is it something that, is it, where are you with that, just briefly. Are you against? I mean if a number of you are against just the concept of naming this building after anyone then that would help me get an idea on where to focus my energy. Dilkes/I think it should go on a work session. Wilburn/You think so. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 75 Dilkes/Yes. Wilburn/OK are there four people that would be willing to discuss just the concept at a work session? Champion/Yea I think we should on the agenda. Lehman/I think it should be on the work session as an item recognizing Emma Harvat and how we do that. Wilburn/OK. Pfab/Now is there a time conflict here because of some? Wilburn/I'm not concerned, I'm not concerned, go ahead. Pfab/An anniversary of something, a proclamation or something. Lehman/Well that's not. Pfab/Yea I mean just so they're separate, we have to divide them and I think that's what they were trying to find. O'Donnell/Now if you're in favor of doing this then we should set up a work session. Lehman/We are putting it on a work session. O'Donnell/Oh well, but let me finish Ernie, if you're in favor of doing this and we have four people that will sit down and talk about renaming a public building then we should proceed with it. Champion/I think Ernie's comment. Wilburn/Emie's comment about. Champion/Honor this woman, I think his comment was totally appropriate and I think should be on a work session. Lehman/Yea because I think it could be something other than renaming a building which I personally don't favor. O'Donnell/But we should make that clear because. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 76 Champion/He did. O'Donnell/I didn't think so. Kanner/What are you making clear Mike? Champion/Would you repeat yourself Emie? O'Donnell/That if we need a work session to talk about how and that may include renaming it, is that what your saying? Lehman/Well I think the work session would be relative to honoring Emma Hawat in some fashion, how we decide to do that, if we decide to do that would be the subject for a work session. Wilburn/So the question is are there four people who are willing to look at how to best honor. Champion/Yes. Lehman/Emma Harvat I think is. O'Donnell/That we're interested in. Lehman/OK. Kanner/Well I'm interested in the proposal that the citizen's brought to us. Champion/(can't hear). Lehman/That will be part of the work session. Kanner/Well that brought to us in a letter just like the Devonian Gorge people brought us a proposal in the letter and I'd like to explore that proposal and different facets. Champion/We will. Kanner/Whether it means honoring her or not honoring her if she' s worth honoring and whether or not we should rename to the Civic Center. Champion/I think that. Lehman/That's going to be the purpose of the work session. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 77 Kanner/Right and so I'm just saying it's more than just question of her per say, it's involving the whole idea of naming the Civic Center too is involved. Vanderhoef/Well if your going to go in that respect then I think the conversation needs to be expanded to what parameters would we be looking at for any building naming. Lehman/Isn't that all part of the work session? Champion/Yes. Vanderhoef/That, but that' s what I want to talk about at the process and criteria if that's what it comes out to I don't know let's talk about it. Lehman/OK. Pfab/I would like to make a comment on the service that the city is providing with it's web page. This is absolutely a marvelous improvement for communication with the city. I hope you all are aware of it, if they, you can have the press releases and stuff sent to you automatically as the city puts them out. There are ways you can sign up for what's new on it and eventually their going to have all the minutes and what not on it, it's a just a matter of when, the agenda's for every commission and what not is there. There's an awful lot of information and I see a lot of moving forward yet with it. That's it. O'Donnell/No I already talked, I (can't hear). Kanner/First of all I cut you off did you have another issue that you were going to say. Champion/Oh I was going to bring up one more thing and that is and I think our Ross knows about this why do we shut the fountain off at 10:00 and not later? Karr/I'm sorry. Champion/Why do we do that? Karr/Do what? Atkins/I don't know. Champion/There are a lot of people downtown at 10:00 and it's all lit at night and it's beautiful. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 78 Wilburn/I've had some people asking me about that too. Vanderhoef/On the weekends. Lehman/I wouldn't know about it but I don't stay up that late. Champion/Well I'm just getting up, I'm just getting going at 10:00. Lehman/Good question. Kanner/And then we had a letter about the survey on the traffic calming devices on College and mentioned that the count was down this year because students, the traffic count was down because students weren't here this year. I assme we took it at the same time last year I just wanted to. Atkins/I thought we did Steven. Lehman/I think so. Kanner/That was the case, it makes sense they would do it in the same time period. Atkins/Yea. Pfab/I just want to comment this evening, or this afternoon as I was heading south on Dodge Street as I got to Burlington fight about a half a block down on Dodge south of Burlington is this little red light telling everybody how fast they're going. Lehman/That's cool. Pfab/I think that is a terrific thing and I would like to see that out working every day and it means that we have to have a tender just for that on the street every day I would think that would be great. Lehman/It was on North Dodge. Pfab/Some place or any place. Lehman/It was on North Dodge. Atkins/So you know it's usually on every day it's just all over town, different schedule. Pfab/Good, I just happen, it just, I just said gee this is great. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700 July 17, 2000 Council Work Session Page 79 Lehman/Just for information the fringe area agreement between the County and the City and Mike and I have met with the County Board and with the Planning & Zoning folks is being, is now being sent to our Planning & Zoning Commission and the County. They will review that and make recommendations to us and hopefully sometime soon we'll be able to update that fringe area agreement so you can be expected. I don't know how big a load P & Z has, I'm sure it's a big load but we should be receiving that in the next couple months. Pfab/And just one final comment I wish to congratulate the honorable mayor for running such a great meeting tonight. So you dug a hole. Lehman/Well I'll tell you, you're getting pretty sparse. O'Donnell/I second that. Adjourned 9:00 PM. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of July 17, 2000. WS071700