HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-11-06 Transcription November 6, 2000 Work Session Page 1
November 6, 2000 Work Session 6:30 PM
Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn, Pfab, Kanner
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, O'Malley, Niichel, Boothroy, Newmann,
Schoon
TAPES: 00-102, BOTH SIDES; 00-103, SIDE ONE
PLANNING AND ZONING
Lehman/Zoning items, go ahead gramma.
O'Donnell/Let' s be nice tonight (can't hear).
Franklin/It's wearing thin Ernie.
Lehman/There is nothing nicer than being a gramma.
O'Donnell/Well let's ask Karin.
Lehman/OK Karin, before you start, is there anything nicer than being a gramma?
Franklin/No there' s nothing nicer than being a gramma.
O'Donnell/I stand corrected.
Lehman/Thank you. Hopefully you'll understand today.
O'Donnell/(can't hear).
Franklin/The first item on the agenda.
Champion/Well the rate I'm going you could have one of mine.
A. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR NOVEMBER 21
ON AN ORDINANCE VACATING THE NORTHERNMOST 60 FEET OF
THE DEAD-END ALLEY ALONG THE WEST PROPERTY LINE OF 405
SOUTH SUMMIT STREET (VAC00-0001)
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Franklin/Is to set a public hearing for November 21 on an ordinance vacating a portion of
an alley between Summit Street and Governor. This is one of those ones where
we will have you go through the vacation to at least the second consideration but
will hold the third consideration until we settle the disposition of the property.
B. CONSIDER AN ORDNANCE AMENDING AN APPROVED OPDH-12 PLAN TO
ALLOW A 40-UNIT ASSISTING LIVING BUILDING ON 2.87 ACRES
LOCATED ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF SCOTT BOULEVARD AND
AMERICAN LEGION ROAD. (REZ00-00020) (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Franklin/Item B is first consideration on the amended OPDH for the SilverCrest
development changing the rehabilitation center to assisted living or to an
Alzheimer' s facility.
C. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE ZONING CHAPTER BY
CHANGING THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM LOW-DENSITY MULTI-
FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM-12) AND NEIGHBORHOOD
CONSERVATION RESIDENTIAL (RNC-20) TO MEDIUM DENSITY
SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RS-8) AND NEIGHBORHOOD
CONSERVATION RE SIDENTIAL (RNC - 12) FOR FOUR PROPERTIE S ON
THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE 900 BLOCK OF IOWA AVENUE, 17
PROPERTIES ON THE 900 BLOCK AND 100 BLOCKS OF WASHINGTON
STREET, 10 PROPERTIES ON THE 100 AND 200 BLOCKS OF SOUTH
SUMMIT STREET, FOUR PROPERTIES ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE 10
AND 100 BLOCKS OF GOVERNOR STREET, THREE PROPERTIES ON
THE WEST SIDE OF THE 1000 BLOCKS OF MUSCATINE AVENUE, AND
FIVE PROPERTIES ON THE 900 AND 1000 BLOCKS OF COLLEGE
STREET. (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
Franklin/C is second consideration on the rezoning of the Washington Summit Street
area.
Champion/And this is just has the one thing in it now not the (can't hear).
Franklin/Yes, this is the rezoning to the combination of RS-8 and RNC-12, it's second
consideration.
Lehman/Second, (can't hear).
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D. CONSIDER AN ORDNANCE AMENDING THE NON-CONFORMING USE
PROVISIONS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION RESIDENTIAL,
RNC-12 ZONE, TO MAKE IT CLEAR ANY EXISTING CONFORMING
MULTI-FAMILY USE WOULD CONTINUE TO BE CONFORMING UNDER
THE RNC-2 ZONE. (SECOND CONSIDERATION).
Franklin/Item D is second consideration on the amendment to the neighborhood
conservation RNC-12 zone to delete the reference to RM-12.
E. CONSIDER A LETTER TO THE JOHNSON COUNTY BOARD OF
SUPERVISORS RECOMMENDING DENIAL OF A REZONING OF 125.43
ACRES LOCATED WITHIN FRINGE AREA C EAST OF DANE ROAD AND
WEST AND SOUTH OF THE LAKERIDGE MOBILE HOME PARK FROM
COUNTY A1 RURAL AND RS SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL TO COUNTY
RMH MANUFACTURED HOUSING RESIDENTIAL. (CZ0027)
Franklin/Item E is the requested rezoning for Lakeridge. I put a letter in your packet
which I had sent to Mr. Downer, attorney for the applicants, indicating that we
needed to move forward with this and suggesting that we vote, that you vote
tomorrow night. I have received a letter from Mr. Downer's secretary indicating
that he is out of town until tomorrow that the Wolf s are also out of town and
requesting an additional deferral to November 21.
Lehman/Now that's a two week delay.
Franklin/That's correct.
O'Donnell/Until when?
Franklin/Until November 2 1.
Kanner/What did your letter say again as far as deadlines?
Franklin/What I'm suggesting Steven is to move this along before it's been deferred a
number of times, to get this item off of your agenda this year that you go ahead
and vote on the rezoning request that is before you and that we can still continue
to negotiate with the Wolf s on an agreement regarding annexation and
development but that we meet, we need to move on with that item that has been
on your agenda so long.
O'Donnell/I agree.
Lehman/And they have two weeks to get their house in order.
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Kanner/Well we're saying vote tomorrow.
Lehman/No.
Franklin/That' s what I was saying initially however I just received a letter on Friday from
the attorney' s secretary indicating that Mr. Downer's out of town as are the
Wolf s and they are requesting that you defer it again until the 21 st.
Lehman/With the understanding that we take action on the 21 st.
Kanner/But haven't we had these kind of letters before?
Lehman/We have not written to them and told them that we were going to go ahead and
move on it.
Franklin/We've had these letters before yes, I think the only thing with the circumstances
here is that I sort of presented them with an option that we hadn't discussed before
and neither Mr. Downer or the Wolf s have been around to respond to it.
Kanner/OK, yea I guess then if we hold firm to two weeks.
Franklin/OK.
F. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF WALNUT
RIDGE PART B, A 14.48 ACRE, 9-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION
LOCATED ON KENNEDY PARKWAY (SUB00-00020)
Franklin/Item F is a resolution considering the approval of Walnut Ridge part 8, as is in
your staff report this address is Walnut Ridge Parts 8, 9, and 10 and we have
deleted Parts 9 and 10 because we're having some issues with the conservation
easement that is on lots in those two Parts of the subdivision so this plat which is
up for your consideration for final plat approval is just for Part 8. And Part 8 is in
the dark line and it's a fairly simple cul de sac with the number of lots that are
similar to the other lots in Walnut Ridge.
Vanderhoef/And the access to Part 9 is.
Franklin/Kennedy parkway.
Vanderhoef/No, isn't there another street that's suppose to come off this cul de sac?
Kanner/That's what I was going to ask, is there another outlet on this place in the north?
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Franklin/Not yet.
Vanderhoef/No it's to 10 then not to 9.
Franklin/OK you have the other final plats in your packets. In answer to your question
Steven the outlet to the noah is not completed yet, Kennedy parkway will need to
extend west to the west property line of Walnut Ridge and loop around and come
back to oh probably Deer Creek Road an extension of Camp Cardinal something
that is to the west of this property and we evaluated this whole project of Walnut
Ridge from Melrose noah for secondary access when we originally did the
preliminary plats and found that by our standards they're not required to have
secondary access for all of Walnut Ridge and that is because of the very low
density of this project, I mean these are acre lots plus. Now in answer to your
question Dee part 9 comes off of a small cul de sac that goes south of Kennedy
Parkway and 10.
Vanderhoef/Goes off of 8.
Franklin/Goes off of 8, off of Crabapple Court, yes, yes.
Vanderhoef/So going ahead and approving 8 still isn't going to give us any access
problems to number 10.
Franklin/No, no, in fact you'd have to do 8 before you could do 9 and 10 because 9 and
10 are dependent upon 8 but not vice versa.
Lehman/OK.
Franklin/I'm done.
Lehman/Holy cow.
Franklin/I know.
O'Donnell/Very nice.
AGENDA ITEMS
ITEM 18. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING EXECUTION OF AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND HOWARD
R. GREEN COMPANY CONSULTING ENGINEERS TO PROVIDE
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ENGINEERING CONSULTANT SERVICES FOR THE IOWA CITY
SANITARY LANDFILL.
ITEM 19. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING EXECUTION OF AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND HOWARD
R. GREEN COMPANY CONSULTING ENGINEERS TO PROVIDE
ENGINEERING CONSULTANT SERVICES FOR THE IOWA CITY
SANITARY LANDFILL.
Atkins/Ernie two items I'd like to mention to council, items 18 and 19 contracts with H. R. Green I'm going to ask that they be deferred for two weeks.
Lehman/18 and 19.
Atkins/18 and 19.
Lehman/Defer to the 21 st.
Atkins/Yes please.
Lehman/OK, other agenda items.
Kanner/I've got a couple I think if anybody has before me though.
ITEM 16. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION
OF PROPERTY INTERESTS NECESSARY FOR CONSTRUCTION OF
THE PRAIRIE DU CHIEN ROAD TO DODGE STREET WATER MAIN
PROJECT.
Vanderhoef/While your doing that I'll ask one question, on Item 16 buying the acquisition
of property for the water line are we buying anything more than just the water line
right of way or are we going into where the road goes through there?
Atkins/To my knowledge it's water line only easements. Item 16 Eleanor do you know if
that's roadway or not? I don't think so.
Dilkes/I don't think so, I think the Dubuque to Prairie Du Chien is roadway but this one
is not.
Atkins/We'll confirm that for you tomorrow night but I'm almost positive (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/If it isn't then I'm curious why we wouldn't.
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Dilkes/Prairie Du Chien to Dodge, is there a street planned for Prairie du Chien.
Franklin/We don't have a street planned there for Prairie Du Chien to Dodge.
Vanderhoef/I thought we had reserved a (can't hear).
Champion/Prairie Du Chien already did some.
Franklin/No from Dubuque to Prairie Du Chien (can't hear) but not Prairie Du Chien to
Dodge.
Lehman/Right.
Atkins/That's right.
Vanderhoef/OK and this.
Kanner/That' s not part of the plan redoing? The plan (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/(can't hear) the segment and I was thinking the wrong segment, I was
thinking the segment Dubuque to Prairie Du Chien and this was Prairie Du Chien
over to Dodge.
Kanner/Where Dodge and Governor split, is that where were saying Prairie Du Chien to
Dodge?
Dilkes/No.
Lehman/No.
Franklin/No it comes out somewhere around Dubuque Road.
Lehman/Noah of the HyVee, east of HyVee.
Franklin/East of the HyVee around the Captain Irish intersection. This is just for a water
line, that's all, there's no road planned between Prairie Du Chien and Dodge
Street.
Kanner/Oh so it's just an east west water going where it's going Prairie Du Chien curves,
I've got you now.
Vanderhoef/OK so this is just water line?
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Lehman/Right.
Vanderhoef/Fine thank you.
ITEM 7. PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT AND ESTIMATE
OF COST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE WASHINGTON
STREET TRANSIT INTERCHANGE PROJECT, PHASE 2.
Kanner/A few things I have here number 7 the bid for the transit interchange, why was
that not in our package? That we got electronically.
Lehman/Well I don't know a lot of times we don't have a bid, do we have a bid yet?
Atkins/I don't think so.
Karr/This is just approving plans and specs, it was just not available at the time we went
to print it's just a standard resolution and unfortunately it wasn't ready in time,
that's why we included hard copy in your packet.
Lehman/Oh it's not a bid.
Karr/It's not a bid, it's only approving plans and specs and going out to bid.
Lehman/Plans and specs.
Kanner/OK because usually we do get something in our packet.
Karr/It would be a resolution, you did get the hard copy in your packet.
Kanner/That hard copy, got that. So that was my other question that was the hard copy
that you gave us had nothing different that was.
Karr/It just did not, we did not have it in time to scan it in your electronic packet, that' s
right.
Kanner/And the cost for that transit interchange, is that pretty standard working to about
$200.00 per square feet is that just?
Atkins/Just never been involved with building one of these so I'm going with the
engineers estimate.
Kanner/It seems like an awful lot maybe because it' s so small it just is something that
(can't hear).
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Lehman/Economy for scale probably is such.
Kanner/OK we're not putting gold guild or anything around.
Atkins/No, no, just to reassure you that.
Champion/We're not.
O'Donnell/Maybe we should.
(All talking)
ITEM 4d(3). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING
FOR NOVEMBER 21 ON PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF
CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION
OF THE IOWA AVENUE STREETSCAPE PHASE II IMPROVEMENTS
PROJECT, DIRECTING CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF SAID
HEARING, AND DIRECTING THE CITY ENGINEER TO PLACE SAID
PLANS ON FILE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.
Vanderhoef/I have a question on consent calendar also.
Lehman/What' s that?
Vanderhoef/Specifically for me on the setting public hearing for the Iowa Avenue
Streetscape, I presume I can not vote on that.
Lehman/Vote to set the public hearing.
Vanderhoef/Yea, OK.
Lehman/Well I don't know, Eleanor.
Vanderhoef/That was the question and then also.
Dilkes/No you would not vote on this.
Lehman/Pardon.
Dilkes/You would not vote on this.
Vanderhoef/Would not.
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Lehman/OK then you'll need to make a motion to remove that from the consent calendar.
Vanderhoef/That one and also on page 4, #4 on the very top accepting the work for
Streetscape Phase III, I can't vote on that one either.
Champion/Can't you vote on that, that' s not really what your concerned.
Vanderhoef/I didn't vote to authorize the money so.
Champion/So I guess you can't vote on.
Dilkes/You can just remove them both and vote on them separately.
Lehman/(Can't hear). OK.
ITEM 4d(1). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR
NOVEMBER 21 ON THE COURT HILL TRUNK SANITARY SEWER
PROJECT AND AUTHORIZING MAILING AND PUBLICATION OF
NOTICE OF SAID PUBLIC HEARING TO EACH OWNER OF RECORD
OF AGRICULTURAL LAND THAT MAY BE ACQUIRED FOR THE
PROJECT.
Kanner/And setting the public hearings in number 4d (1) for the Court Hill Sewer and
property acquisition ours says 1219 the public park copy says 1121.
Karr/I can answer that, there is a requirement that property owners receive 30 days notice
while the publication notice required in the paper is a 4 and 20 so the resolution is
correct and I've given the Mayor the notice to change that and amend it to the
record tomorrow night, that public hearing will be set for December 19 to allow
property owners 30 days notice and legal public notification of 4 and 20.
Kanner/OK.
ITEM 12. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AMENDING THE BUDGETED
POSITIONS IN THE CENTRAL SERVICES DIVISION OF THE
FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND THE AFSCME PAY PLAN BY
DELETING THE POSITION OF CENTRAL SERVICES CLERK.
Kanner/I had some questions about the amendment for the budgeted position in Central
Service. Now there was a couple things, one I was wondering why we didn't get
the letter that was sent by the union president until just this past Thursday when it
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was sent a few weeks ago originally. There was a copy CC to City Council along
with the Mayor.
Lehman/I don't.
Kanner/Isn't it standard that we get that within the same week that you get it ifthere's
someone that CC's it to us?
Lehman/I'm not sure when I got it either.
Atkins/I don't recall the date of it, if you're going by the date of the letter I (can't hear)
talked to you about it and you drafted your response reasonably and quickly.
Helling/It was a week yea.
Atkins/Yea I mean I don't have the letter in from of me I don't recall what the date was.
Kanner/It was like the 13th or so it's on page 1.
Karr/It's dated October 16.
Lehman/We got it on October 16.
Kanner/It was a Monday.
Atkins/Yea we got it on the 18th and I presume we talked to Ernie shortly thereafter and
you asked that a response be drafted for you which. It was sent on the 271h so it
was 9 days.
Kanner/Well I guess this leads to my request that Ernie I would disagree with you about
our involvement in the letter that you wrote in our involvement on this issue
because I think the issue of out sourcing is the larger philosophical political issue
that warrants some debate and with the parties involved. I think it would be a
healthy thing to have this where we could have someone from the union along with
our city management to talk about this and we had some positions put forward by
the finance director and they make a lot of sense but I'd also like to hear the other
side too, there are some arguments against it and I would like to say that perhaps
we should hold off for two weeks, have a work session item on this in two weeks
to discuss this issue of out sourcing because I do think it's a big issue and of a
concern to a number of people.
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Lehman/Well that' s obviously it's a pleasure of council, I mean we're going to be talking
about it tomorrow night and if we're not prepared to vote tomorrow night we can
certainly defer but that' s I mean that' s council decision.
Kanner/Well I request that we delay it and put it on the work session for two weeks from
tonight.
Lehman/I'd suggest that you make your suggestion, well is there anybody who's
interested in delaying it without first talking about it?
Pfab/(can't hear) What options are available?
Lehman/Well we can either act on the item as it' s presented on the agenda or if Steven
would like us to defer the item and discuss the concept of out sourcing.
Pfab/I think it might not be a bad idea just to bring us up to speed on what options there
are I think it might be a good time, I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be done,
I'm sure there are pros and cons but I think this might be a good time to take or
for discussion of it.
Vanderhoef/I think we can have that discussion tomorrow night and then we vote.
Lehman/Well we'll discuss it if we choose tomorrow night that we want to defer it we
can do that.
Pfab/OK.
Lehman/OK.
Kanner/OK so I'll make a motion tomorrow and if there is such a vote then on the work
session perhaps on Monday for the two weeks from today.
Champion/It's not uncommon at all for corporations and city's and school districts to
(can't hear) about to be done and a lot of times talk (can't hear) especially when
your buying expensive equipment.
Lehman/Well we'll talk about it tomorrow night.
Pfab/I think the only reason is, the city has done this on a number of occasions in the past
and then run back and rehired the people they've laid off.
Atkins/That' s not correct Irvin.
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Pfab/Not correct.
Atkins/No that is not correct.
Pfab/When the reductions before were those type of things not.
Atkins/We had a contract service in this building for custodial maintenance, we were not
happy with it and we ended it.
Pfab/And you ended it?
Atkins/And ended it, yes, and hired someone else.
Pfab/Was there more, was there other out besides that?
Atkins/We out source, you've got out source items on your agenda tonight, contract with
H. R. Green, we do it all the time. It's a very common practice.
Pfab/Well I'm not saying it's wrong but.
Atkins/Oh no I understand you're not.
Pfab/The information that was coming to me was there was a, this happened several times
and basically it had to be unknown.
Atkins/I only know of one time I recall.
Lehman/Well we'll discuss it tomorrow night.
Pfab/That's fine, I think it merits discussion that's all.
Atkins/I only ask the council one thing as you consider this and that is do you wish me to
debate with representatives from the union? I just want you to be aware of that.
Lehman/I don't think we're going to get into that.
Atkins/OK just so we understand each other on what you expect from me tomorrow
night.
Lehman/OK.
Dilkes/Ernie a minor a clarification on the point that Steven raised earlier on when
Council gets the correspondence because this is correspondence to council it goes
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on the consent calendar and therefore it does not come to Council until there' s a
council agenda.
Lehman/A regular meeting OK.
Dilkes/That's the standard practice anyway.
Lehman/OK. Other agenda items.
ITEM 8. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 6, CHAPTER 1
(NUISANCES), OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF
IOWA CITY BY ADDING STANDARDS AND PROCEDURES FOR
REGISTRATION AND REGULATION OF ABANDONED/VACANT
BUILDINGS. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Kanner/On the abandoned house ordinance I do not see a public hearing listed, are we
planning to have a public hearing.
Vanderhoef/On which?
Kanner/And what, what?
Vanderhoef/Which?
Kanner/Number 8, the abandoned house ordinance. I was wondering if we were planning
to have a public hearing and why are we having it the same day as, why are we
voting on the same day?
Lehman/I don't know that we're voting.
Dilkes/I don't believe there's a public hearing required for this ordinance, it's on for first
consideration, if you would want to have a public hearing we would have to
schedule that.
Vanderhoef/But they can, ifthere's someone who objects to it they always have that
opportunity to come and talk to us.
Dilkes/I believe that' s in the mayor' s discretion and he typically allows that yes.
Lehman/Yea.
Kanner/Well I know, just been told it's not required I think it's a good idea to have a
public hearing like other ordinances we talked somewhat about this and the idea
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was to have the public hearing for those that were required and then usually not
vote on first consideration until the next meeting and I think it's a good practice to
uphold with this even though it's not required, it makes sense to me, we're going
to be.
Champion/Steven most public hearings we have we don't have anybody at. This is an
open meeting, there' s always time as far as this council is concerned for people
who want to address the council on any vote we're taking and I think that' s totally
adequate for this ordinance. I'm not willing to pro to delay it to have another
public hearing.
Vanderhoef/Personally I haven't received any correspondence from anyone.
O'Donnell/I haven't either.
Vanderhoef/Or phone calls about this at all so I don't see that there will be a whole lot of
interest.
Pfab/This came out from somebody who came in with a packet if I remember right was I
right?
Wilburn/That was a different, it was the same night we had the work session but that was
the number of cars.
Lehman/The number of cars.
Pfab/Oh OK.
Lehman/I don't know, have we received correspondence on this?
Atkins/On this item? No. I've not seen any. Doug's in the audience, Doug, he may have
received something.
Doug Boothroy/The council received correspondence on for this ordinance supporting
this ordinance for Bayard Street, McLean Street, and I don't know that you found,
you got on any on Knollwood Lane but there was three, those are three houses
that are in that are abandoned that letters were received.
Champion/And wasn't one a petition?
Boothroy/The one on McLean Street I believe was a petition.
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Lehman/Has there been any sentiment opposed to this ordinance communicated to your
office?
Boothroy/No we've not received any.
Lehman/That' s what I'm asking for because.
Boothroy/All we've received is positive comments.
Lehman/It seems very non controversial.
Boothroy/Right.
Lehman/OK thank you.
Wilburn/We did discuss it at one work session and there was some media coverage.
Pfab/If I remember right I felt that the year of sitting there was a little unnecessary (can't
hear).
Boothroy/This ordinance is 6 months.
Kanner/Yea I was going to ask you about that Doug, how did you arrive at the six
months as opposed to maybe three quarters of the year? Aren't some people
maybe gone for six months on a regular basis?
Boothroy/The Dangerous Building Code is six months and there was a couple other
examples dealing with the same type of issue they used six months or 180 days and
so I chose that.
Lehman/For continuity.
Boothroy/For continuity, it's easier to remember, remember this is a trigger date, it will
be more than six months if it's contested anyway it likely could be, you know
that's what we count from.
Lehman/Are you going to be here tomorrow night?
Boothroy/Yes I'll be here tomorrow night.
Lehman/So if we have questions for you during the public discussion tomorrow night we
can ask it. Thank you Doug.
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ITEM 10. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PROPERTY TAX
EXEMPTION APPLICATION FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 332 S.
LINN STREET, IOWA CITY, IOWA.
Kanner/I have some questions about the property tax abatement for 332 S. Linn.
Dilkes/It would be, Steven could you give us the number, if you could give us the item
number. Thanks.
Kanner/Oh I'm sorry. Number 10 and also 139 in our Council electronic Council
packets. It wasn't quite clear, I saw a figure $1,350 for the exemption sought and
I don't know if that was a, I assume it was a misprint and I'm not quite sure
what's being asked for here, what amount and then there were four options that
they were listed of how they can seek tax abatements and we were told only B and
C were options and then we weren't told which one.
Atkins/David can help you Steven?
Vanderhoef/Yea it was in there.
Kanner/Oh I guess I didn't see it.
Vanderhoef/They chose number 2.
Kanner/They chose number 2.
Vanderhoef/The 10 year declining.
Kanner/And do they get a choice on that?
David Schoon/Regarding the exemption schedule given that it's a non residential
commercial use that is qualifying for the exemption they could choose from the
application exemption 2 or 3, the one is a 3 year 100 percent and the other is a 10
year declining percentage and they've chosen the 10 year declining percentage.
Atkins/David would you give since there' s a couple new Council Members, we have new
Council Members, would you give sort of a one or two minute history, I think that
will get them up to speed on this.
Schoon/Trying to remember, 4 or 5 years ago the city council designated the CB-5 zone
as the near south side commercial urban revitalization area, about a year ago this
time last year we amended the plan changing some of the criteria for eligible
projects, the thought was it should be consistent with what we did in the central
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business district for the Whiteway 2000 building so the plan was amended last year
to reflect the same criteria that' s required in the central business district. The idea
was to encourage commercial non residential commercial activity in this area, the
thought being that a residential development or the apartment market was such
that it was encouraging apartment development but we wanted to encourage the
nonresidential commercial activity to occur in this area, therefore we established a
property tax exemption to encourage the non residential commercial activity.
Vanderhoef/And didn't we change the 10 year on this one to correspond with the
Whiteway the CB-5?
Schoon/Well we actually did to make them consistent was prior to the amendment the
amendment required in order to receive the exemption that you had to have at least
three floors of commercial to qualify for the exemption and in the central business
we had no such requirement and so we amended the plan to make it consistent
with the central business district. So in terms of your first question or one of your
questions they have a choice between schedule two and three that' s at the
applicant' s choice, your first question I was a was a little lost at the figure you
came up with and I don't know where that came from so I don't. They have
applied to receive exemption on the nonresidential commercial component. What
exactly that assessive value is yet to be determined because that will be determined
by the city assessor after January 1, 2001. So what they've requested is any of
that of value that' s been added on the nonresidential commercial component
receive the exemption.
Kanner/Well on page 141 of our packet which I think is different than other packets I
think there' s a decimal point when it shouldn't be here. It says estimated irrational
costs for improvements for which exemption is sought and according to this it's
$1,350.
Schoon/That should be $1,350,000 is the amount of the construction estimate for the non
residential commercial portion.
Kanner/So they filled that, this out I assume this is a copy of their application so they
goofed up here with leaving a 0 out and so it's $1.35?
Schoon/Right.
Kanner/And who' s going to confirm the parking? It says here 50 percent of the parking
is for commercial. Does the other 50 percent meet residential code?
Schoon/Yes it does.
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Kanner/They'll have enough parking with that.
Vanderhoef/And don't they still also have to pay some into the parking fee?
Schoon/Correct some of their parking requirement has to be paid in the form of a fee?
Vanderhoef/Parking in that space under the building.
Schoon/Part of that.
Vanderhoef/They don't have 100 percent.
Schoon/Of the required (can't hear).
(All talking).
Schoon/They don't have to provide 100 percent of their requirement (can't hear).
Kanner/Oh because they're paying for the.
Lehman/But that' s got nothing to do with the tax abatement.
Kanner/Well in a sense that they, they're saying 50 percent of the parking available is
(can't hear) lease the code.
Lehman/It's reserved for their commercial portion of the building.
Kanner/And half for the residential and that meets their code and can they apply for this
before it's built? It seems to me you would have, we have consider it before after
they've done it, we would say well maybe you've done it well why should we give
you the abatement. Is there a law that says they can't apply before it's filled?
Schoon/They can receive prior approval on the application for exemption but it's not a
requirement so then they would they can, as long, I mean it's a risk they take as
long as they meet the criteria outlining the plan they qualify for the abatement.
Vanderhoef/And didn't they start this prior to us changing the rule of the three floors of
commercial?
Schoon/Well they had removed the existing structures prior this change.
Lehman/Isn't this just a matter of applying and as long as they meet the requirements
they're entitled to it?
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Schoon/Correct.
Lehman/That' s what I thought.
Schoon/But state code requires that it.
Lehman/That they go through the process.
Schoon/Correct.
Lehman/Right okay.
Kanner/Well when you say entitled.
Lehman/They're entitled by law, the ordinances we have in place for that are of town
entitle them tax abatement, if they apply for it we have to give it to them.
Kanner/We don't have to give it to them.
Lehman/I don't care.
Schoon/As long as they meet the requirements outlined in the plan.
Lehman/No choice.
Schoon/As the requirements established by the city in essence, you can only judge
whether or not to grant the abatement based on the requirements outlined in the
plan.
Kanner/So you're saying that we have to vote yes on this, we have to give them a tax
abatement because they meet all the requirements? What if we would vote no?
Lehman/They could sue us.
Champion/I don't think we're going to.
Dilkes/Well I think.
O'Donnell/It kind of defeats the whole purpose.
Dilkes/There' s kind of a principle of governmental action that underlies all this and that is
when a government sets up rules for itself.
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Wilburn/We have to follow.
Dilkes/It applies those rules even handily and not arbitrarily and I think that if you can
not identify if any way in which this property does not comply with the rules that
you yourself established it would be foolhardy to vote no.
Kanner/One of the things though that we were told no in the past or I heard at least was
that even though we were voting for a district we have the opportunity to vote
later when it comes to us. Now I'm being told that there isn't that opportunity.
Lehman/Well I think the urban renewal plan is a different story than this is, this, the rules
are set in this district also in the central business district, those rules are in place.
Anybody who adds increases of either property in excess of 15 percent and it's
commercial above and follows all rules is entitled to abatement all you have to do
is apply for it.
Kanner/So tell me one of you how again how this is different from the district for the
Sycamore Mall.
Lehman/Well you'll have to.
Schoon/Well with Sycamore Mall basically what that plan says is that we will consider the
use of tax increment financing for projects to encourage certain activities in those
area. And when we do that in terms of how that plan was written there' s more
interpretation in terms of how we are going to use that. We talk about using that
as a rebate and it isn't specifically outlined. While under the urban revitalization
law it specifically outlines what you can provide under the urban revitalization law
and that' s property tax exemption based on four schedules and you can establish
and the criteria you establish is part of the plan, so you could have established, the
council could have established criteria that would have required a different review
that may had left maybe some more subjectivity to the process in terms of making
the decision but our plan was not written as such. It was written if you meet these
criteria then you would qualify for the exemption. And those criteria are pretty
specific it's used as a commercial use, it increases the property by a certain, or the
value' s increased by a certain percentage.
Kanner/Okay, thank you I didn't understand that I appreciate hearing that.
Lehman/Thank you David. Other agenda items?
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NORTH SIDE MARKET PLACE STREETSCAPE PLAN
David Schoon/In the economic development strategy we presented to you at the end of
last year, one of the strategies we looked at was making certain improvements to
certain commercial areas and encouraging the improvements to certain areas and
one of those that was identified in the strategy was streetscape improvements for
the Noah side Market place area. We have hired Brian Clark and Associates for
prepare a design concept for streetscape improvements, we had a public meeting
today, we had a public meeting about a month ago and Brian Clark and Chris Della
Vedova from Brian and Associates which they should look familiar to you
because they've worked on the Iowa Avenue Streetscape project will present to
you what they have put together so far today.
Brian Clark/Mr. Mayor and members of Council before we start to talk about North side
Market place I've got an award to present to you Mr. Mayor. One of many
you've received recently, back in 97 you started a master planning process as
probably part of you know for the Iowa Avenue project, our firm submitted that
master plan project to the American Society of Landscape Architects, we received
a statewide merit award for it's design and I'm here tonight to give you a copy of
that award.
Champion/That's great, thanks Ernie.
Kanner/(can't hear).
Champion/Well there were a lot of people involved in that.
Clark/There were.
Lehman/Oh yea, still are.
O'Donnell/I thought Ernie did that alone.
Clark/As David mentioned a month ago we met with stakeholders, property owners and
neighbors of the North side Market place area, we had a public input session,
gathered their concerns, ideas, at that month long, or that session a month ago.
We prepared concepts based on their concepts. Tonight we held a second public
input meeting, presented three concepts to the neighbors, the stakeholders again
and believe it or not kind of a got a consensus concept out of our meeting tonight.
Chris is going to present to you kind of our hybrided concept, we'll be brief,
there' s a lot of items on the agenda tonight and also share with you some site
furnishings proposed for that area so I'll let Chris take it over from here.
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Lehman/You'll need to pull the mic over so you can speak into the mic.
Chris Della Vedova/Okay we'll see here, we'll try this.
Kanner/Want to take this?
Della Vedova/To kind of relate you guys, kind of the scope of our area is Bloomington to
the north, Jefferson to the south, Market Street from Dubuque to Gilbert and
Gilbert from Bloomington to Market, this is kind of the study area we've been
focusing on with the group. The things we talked about the group with today or
tonight out of 3 concepts some things that were shared were kind of creating a
front door so to speak out on Dubuque for the area and that' s that market since
that' s really the area that goes through. Even though that' s not where people need
to turn, they need to turn down at Jefferson but that' s really the opportunity to
create that front door. One thing that came out of the discussion was the need to
shorten the distance to cross market because of the traffic and safety concern so
we're looking at some small bump outs, the distance of the parking stalls to close
that distance down and make that feel more comfortable for pedestrians. We've
also identified kind of the key intersections to the area that we can give those a
treatment one that makes them more pedestrian oriented so that people can feel
like they can cross and two to give visual cues to motorists that they need to slow
down. And then the other thing that came out of that was an emphasis to kind of
spread some nodes throughout the site and in those nodes we're talking about
seeding, trash receptacles, lights, there would be lights throughout the area to
improve the general lighting level throughout. That was one of the main concerns
coming out of the public input. So that' s kind of the general concept that we're
dealing with coming out of tonight's meeting, the other two concepts for your
information was one that really concentrated mostly on nodes and not on
intersections and one that concentrated a large effort on intersections but they felt
this compromise was the way to go. Safe furnishings wise.
Clark/My fault Chris.
Lehman/Let the records show it was Brian's fault.
Della Vedova/What we're looking at is to try and maintain a continuity with downtown
and Iowa Avenue so we'd have the same bench, the same trash receptacle, light
fixture wise there was an overall consensus tonight to go with something like this
which is a more direct tie.
Lehman/Blue or Green?
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Della Vedova/Well we would go with the gray green I mean it's everything else
downtown, this is just out of the catalog. This is a very direct tie to the shape but
this particular fixture we can get into a scale for pedestrians because particularly
along Linn we've got a lot of over storied trees that we want to maintain and so
we want to keep lights kind of below those in a pedestrian level. And then there' s
the opportunity along Market to have probably alternating poles with some heights
so they can get some banners in that area for the area.
Pfab/When they're that close to the ground will that spread the light out for safety area in
that area?
Della Vedova/Yes we're trying to achieve recommended light levels up here.
Pfab/(can't hear).
Della Vedova/No that was a major concern coming out of public input.
Lehman/Well you're basically talking about intersection treatments, sidewalk treatments,
street trees, street furniture like the benches, trash receptacles, lights this sort of
thing.
Della Vedova/Yea, sidewalk treatments I guess we're trying to concentrate on nodes
rather than redoing the entire streetscape, trying to maintain as much as of what's
good quality shape up there now.
Lehman/Now we're not looking at resurfacing streets and replacing utilities.
Della Vedova/No.
Lehman/We're just looking at the sidewalk and this sort of thing. OK.
Della Vedova/I would call it a back (can't hear) building face type of scenario but most
trying to maintain as much existing that' s in good shape as possible. Yes.
Kanner/Two questions for you. We had been looking at Linn and Iowa and I think Karin
a couple months ago you were talking with the University and the building down
there is going to be torn down and I was wondering how that fits in with your
ideas.
Della Vedova/We're trying to or I guess the University is in combination with the city is
trying to emphasize that connection between Van Allen and Seashore Hall when
Seashore Hall the old part comes down.
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Lehman/The walkway through there.
Della Vedova/The walkway through there and that' s part of what we're trying to do with
these crosswalks and really the preferred concept really concentrated on this walk
and this walk and didn't concentrate on this because this is the direct connection.
They've got a bus pull out there that's going to be taking place, there's also some
directional signage for the noah part, or Noah side Market place area as well as
back to downtown.
Lehman/But the walkway is a separate project from the?
Della Vedova/Yes.
Kanner/But the walkway is down another block.
Della Vedova/The walkway starts there and goes to Iowa Avenue.
Kanner/Right, that' s where the building is being torn down.
Champion/That' s University property anyway.
Della Vedova/Correct.
Kanner/But we want to work with them.
Lehman/It would be tight anyway.
Della Vedova/Just as a point of record we're also a landscape architect on that project so
we are trying to coordinate as well as possible.
Lehman/OK questions. I'm sorry go ahead.
Kanner/Well yea the second one was any thoughts about that big parking lot, any kind of
infill development across from (can't hear)?
Della Vedova/Up here?
Kanner/Yea. It's privately owned.
Della Vedova/Because it's privately owned it's not really in the scope of what we're
looking at at this time.
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Kanner/Any thoughts though of let' s say they were agreeable to something that would,
that stands out of what you might do?
Della Vedova/I mean if they were agreeable infill would be ideal but we really haven't
looked at what that would be.
Lehman/Well that would be pretty much governed by the zoning in that area anyway.
Della Vedova/Yes.
Kanner/I mean would a park or a little mini space of some green?
Della Vedova/A mini park was one thing that came out of public input that is desirable in
the area but really right now there' s not a public area that works for that.
Vanderhoef/What about the parking lot next to Gilpin' s?
Della Vedova/That is a city lot, I guess there would be the potential, the flip side I'm sure
you guys probably heard before parking is a concern and they don't want to lose
parking.
Vanderhoef/No I don't mean for green space, I was just wondering if you were going to
coordinate any kind of lighting.
Della Vedova/That was brought up today that we would definitely try and pull the
lighting fixtures into that lot too and address that.
Vanderhoef/It seems reasonable and get a couple of trash receptacles.
Della Vedova/We're also looking at another directory sign in that area as well.
Vanderhoef/Yea I'd like to see that included in the project.
Lehman/So what are you asking from us?
Della Vedova/We're just trying to give you an update of where we are in the process, let
you know what' s going on.
Atkins/Ernie what I'd like to do is I'd like your general agreement we need to put
together a capital project plan but before we do that I wanted to make sure you
were on board with what these folks have for us.
O'Donnell/Very good, looks good.
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Lehman/It looks to me like we like what we see.
Della Vedova/Good that' s what we like to hear. Thank you.
Lehman/Thank you.
SOLID WASTE ADVISORY COMMITTEE (1P1 of 11/2 info.)
Lehman/Steve are you going to address that?
Atkins/I thought the memo was pretty straightforward.
Lehman/Yep I think it does to.
Atkins/Haven't had much luck in a Citizens Advisory Committee so I thought I'd make a
suggestion that we consider one house and they can call upon folks as they see fit
to review and make recommendations, we've got lots of issues out there that we'd
like to get started on and I remain convinced that I think.
(END OF 00-102, SIDE 1 )
Atkins/Do as well for us, it's really it's pretty much up to you all.
Vanderhoef/To me it's positive to do in house with this option of inviting other folks in
which act sort of like an ad hoc committee anyway that for a specific project we've
got people that are interested in that project and have some knowledge about that
project and then we can use them for that project and move on to the next one.
Wilburn/If we get some good relationships going like similar to what we have with Parks
and Rec. and Terry outreaching to other groups then that would be good.
Kanner/Actually I'd like to give it a push for two more weeks, I think this is something
that a lot of people don't know about, it's certainly not a sexy event.
O'Donnell/I don't know.
Kanner/Well.
(All laughing).
Lehman/Mike has a different sense that' s okay, he's always liked (can't hear).
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Kanner/Actually I'm with you on this one.
O'Donnell/I may change my mind.
(All laughing).
O'Donnell/Go ahead.
Kanner/But I think to get that perspective, that outside perspective is very valuable, I
think the idea that when Steve brought it to us I think we need that. I went to the
Chamber of Commerce today and talked to some people there and said we need
your perspective on this, who would be good to have one or two of your business
owners to be part of this and they're going to look for people. And I'm starting to
do more outreach and I would ask the Council to just give me two weeks, to give
us two weeks to see if we can get some more people. I think people really haven't
heard about this and I think though that it is something that' s worth trying another
two weeks the deadline we had set originally and see if we get at least seven
people for the six slots, we're up to four right now and I know at least three of
those people are pretty well qualified and I'm pretty confident that we can get at
least another three people that would give us a choice to pick six out of those. Or
even if we want three or four and then get the quorum going, but it's very
available, it's a hot topic nationally and we need that input from our citizens on
this, this is one thing that there's going to be some big decisions to be made and
how we proceed with our landfill and recycling and environmental concerns.
Pfab/I would support another two weeks, I was surprised that we turned down the ones
that we that were came before us, I was kind of disappointed in that because I
thought at that point we had something that we could start going with.
Lehman/We didn't turn them down, we went.
Pfab/Well we said you're not good enough.
Lehman/No we didn't say that, we (can't hear) we left them in the pool.
Pfab/Well but we said we want to get a bigger pool to (can't hear) and these people put
themselves forward and some of them was an outstanding but anyway so I did
approach somebody this afternoon and they said they would apply so I (can't hear)
one.
Lehman/Steve can you tell me and I hate to ask you to speak for anybody else but Brad
Neumann would be the.
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Atkins/Brad the staff yes.
Lehman/Do you know how what Brad' s feeling is as far as.
Atkins/You want to ask him?
Champion/Yes.
Lehman/Is he here?
Atkins/He's right back there.
Lehman/Come on down.
O'Donnell/Mr. Solid Waste.
Lehman/Come on down Brad.
Champion/I mean I hate to have this committee in house but I'm willing to make it in
house, I was hoping we'd get some people from the business world who actually
have a lot of waste on this committee who would have a genuine interest in
decisions and the future of our landfill and all that because we are having you
know problems all over the state.
Lehman/Well I think this is a lot more than landfill.
Champion/I know.
Brad Neumann/It's more waste reduction not necessarily landfill, not landfill operation.
Champion/Right I understand.
Neumann/Day to day.
Champion/I didn't mean, I didn't mean running the landfill.
Atkins/Not to forget that the landfill we're hoping to talk eventually into calling it the
landfill and recycling center, as you know we're putting hundreds of thousands of
dollars of capital investment out there to make it more than just a place where you
dump garbage.
Lehman/How is that project coming by the way? We should be building out there aren't
we?
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Neumann/Oh it's going up, it should be ready in January.
Lehman/Oh ready.
Neumann/Start working the bugs out.
Lehman/What' s your take on this?
Neumann/Well this is something that it came up in the comprehensive plan, the regional
plan, of course it's been there for 10 years suggesting this sort of a commission so
the idea has been around a long time. For me we were looking at a commission
that was probably only going to meet a few times a year at the most. A lot of it
was going to be done staff level and a lot of the issues we have looked at already,
this commission would be good for things like the comprehensive plan and things
like that but only comes up every three years so it you know we weren't looking at
it being real active. Now if it were put into place 8-10 years ago that may have
been different but I don't have a problem either way with the staff committee is
something that.
Lehman/Who would be on staff committee?
Neumann/Well that was outlined in Steve's memo.
Lehman/I know but I don't have that in front of me.
Atkins/Someone from Landfill Operations, someone who' s in waste collection, our
manager at landfill, an engineer, I have Sensitive Areas Administration, Julie
Tallman who administers our Sensitive Areas ordinance who is very
knowledgeable about the environmental aspects I'd like her. Brad from the
planning office and I'm thinking about also someone from HIS like one of our
housing inspectors who are you know we have to do apartment inspections and
they're familiar with those kinds of issues that's who I was thinking about.
Lehman/OK.
O'Donnell/That sounds, it really sounds like that covers all basis, I (can't hear) initially
push this and you know with our limited response we've had and I think over a
substantial period of time I'm ready to do this in house and maybe seek outside
help with the one when we need it so I'm ready to.
Wilburn/Is there anything to proclude us from going ahead with this staff committee and
if others are interested in continuing to see if there' s interest out there getting
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those names to this committee and as you Brad as you all I guess I was look for a,
you said a lot has been done already maybe a vehicle to at least educate the people
who have shown an interest. I mean do you see where I'm getting at?
Vanderhoef/Do you know some of those people (can't hear) iP.
Wilburn/Yea maybe it doesn't sound if your vision was a couple three times a year that
sort of thing at least as I guess what I'm getting at is maybe using this group of
people as more along the ad hoc committee just to like an update for a group of
people who at least showed some interest and then seeing where it goes from
there, I mean is there anything from keeping us from doing that? Going ahead
with this giving you if your the lead staff person on this to go ahead and call a
meeting to bring this group of people together update that it would be a lot of
extra work to kind of do the simultaneous or?
Neumann/I don't know if this commission would have been more geared toward policy
making or in recommending to council or technical and this committee is going to
be more technical which a lot of those, like I said a lot of those issues like
apartments and the downtown a lot of those have been looked at so there' s not a
whole lot of, I guess it's more how do we, the nuts and bolts, how do we do it and
how do we get it done. Which is more I think the staff committee could do rather
than because the commission is going to tell us we need to do this and then the
staff's going to look into it and bring it back and so I don't know.
Pfab/I have a question and I don't want to cast to the roll of the person that said that they
wanted to close the patent office if your 100 years ago because everything had
already been invented but I have a feeling this solid waste reduction recycling is
going to be a lot more intense as years go on and so I would very much like to see
this thing go. You know I didn't hear you say that but you made the comment that
made me that bounced off that reflected that all the works been done but I thought
I doubt that it has and I don't think you were saying quite that.
Kanner/When I went to talk to Congressperson Leach in Washington at the National
League of Cities I asked Dave Elias for some information and I think he got it
from Brad and the information that they gave me was this thing called the carbone
decision a Supreme Court decision that limited cities and states in the flow control
and I think this is a big issue and they're like, they gave me 20 different articles
about how different cities have dealt with it and I think it's very important that we
get a commission input on that kind of thing to see what is our future and to work
with the staff and I would just say that we didn't, for housing and community
development we didn't have more applicants than the spaces but we went ahead
and even with the commission like that that' s well known we didn't have the
applicants, I think we'll have the applicants and again I would say to our deadline
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for two weeks that we set at the last meeting and then make the decision there. I
have a feeling we're going to have more than 7 applicants.
Lehman/What' s your pleasure?
O'Donnell/I would like to do it in house set up some guidelines.
Pfab/Is this something that we want to discuss at the open meeting tomorrow?
O'Donnell/I don't know why.
Atkins/There's no agenda item.
Lehman/Well it's not, we can't because it's on the agenda.
Atkins/Your agenda item would be a dissolution, is that a word? Yea.
Lehman/Dissolution.
Atkins/Dissolving the previous commission and just turning it into the staff committee
and I'm assuming you wouldn't be receiving any more applicants then if you make
a decision this evening that.
Pfab/Well is that something that would maybe be better to, will that be on the agenda
tomorrow?
Atkins/No.
Lehman/(can't hear).
Atkins/This is an idea that I presented to you.
Pfab/Well I know but I think it's an idea that maybe should be brought to the public so
they don't come back and say well we didn't, we weren't involved.
Vanderhoef/I'm real comfortable with the in house.
O'Donnell/I am too.
Pfab/I think we may be passing up some real good opportunities if we do it now.
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Wilburn/I'm going to go ahead and go with the in house and really encourage to look to
try and get the relationships with the different groups like I said the Parks and Rec.
for me is the model that I'm thinking of.
Champion/I'm really torn on this one I can't make a decision.
Lehman/OK we're going to go in house for the time being but I think that you need to
keep, keep your mind open, if you feel at any time that a commission could be of
assistance to you I trust you would communicate that.
Atkins/Yes.
Lehman/And certainly there are people who have expressed interest I found it somewhat
awkward in telling you that you should perhaps keep these peoples names on your
list and call them if you decide you want to do something I don't see that as being
an option but if you do feel that a commission would be of benefit let us know.
Atkins/OK.
Lehman/OK thank you. Are we going to do Englert Theater before we do break?
Vanderhoef/No.
Lehman/Then we're going to do break before we do Englert Theater.
BREAK
ENGLERT THEATER (1P3 and 1P4 of 11/2 info. packet)
Lehman/Englert Theater. Any discussion?
Vanderhoef/Well next item.
Lehman/OK moving along campaign contributions. All right. Yea it's down on
Washington Street. Is there a person from the Englert Coalition that would like to
address the council and we can ask some questions o~ A person. Because we're
not going to have a committee meeting, we're going to have a person.
Dick Summerwill/Is there a specific aspect that you would like to know about?
Lehman/Whichever ones we ask the person who stands up.
Kanner/How about the president?
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Lehman/Well I think we want the money part but I also think I personally would like to
know how many people are participating in.
LaDonna Wicklund/Why don't I give you that.
Dick Summerwill/You want us up here?
Lehman/Yes please I actually will let two of you come up.
Kanner/I don't think we have a choice on the matter.
Lehman/Oh we always have a choice.
Wicklund/I'm La Donna Wicklund treasurer and you'd like to know how many people
are contributing.
Lehman/How many people have contributed or pledged?
Wicklund/Well you know what that question came up two me at 5:00 tonight someone
said I need to come up with that.
Lehman/It sounds like a political speech now how many?
Wicklund/So I went whoa and I went through my computer and I started looking at all of
the people that have donated and I realized that I would need about a day to do
that and so sat here tonight and I tried to estimate this and I want you to give you
some information on the estimate. There is over 126 people who made very large
contributions of over $1,000, there are probably 200 people that went through on
the Longfellow tours, then we had the Northside house tours historical tours and
there were about 500 people going through and contributing. We've sold 5-shirts
for 365 seats and we've sold marquis lighter bulbs to children in the community
about 161 of those, we've had these Friday night concerts throughout the summer
I think there were 12 of them and people were throwing fish bowl for that, we
think maybe about 180.
Lehman/You're not going to count the people at the football game a week ago are you?
Wicklund/Did they give us money too? OK then we had the music benefits in the bars,
maybe 180 people, the kids have been involved at Shimek, they've collected
pennies and pop cans and done bake sales for us, there are 215 kids and all of their
parents are helping us. The kids at Horace Mann are getting involved and the kids
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at Longfellow. My personal favorite is the two children from Longfellow who had
a lemonade sale and gave us $32.00.
Champion/Wow.
Wicklund/So that' s two kids but it was really a cute activity. Of the money that we have
collected, $46,000 was raised in donations under $1,000 and a lot of those were in
the $25 to $50 range and we think there's about 1,800 of those. Oh the road
race, there were over 225 participants and they filled out a sheet like this and we're
getting contributions so we think that maybe 3,000 people contributed to that so
we're going to guesstimate that over 7,000 people have contributed in some way
and we think that' s pretty low because we probably, we've only done this in the
last half hour and we've forgotten some of the things we've done. OK. Do you
want another short answer to?
Lehman/I think we, I'm satisfied with that answer I guess. OK.
Kanner/Could you tell me your name again?
Wicklund/La Donna Wicklund.
Kanner/How are you, you hired a consultam to outline your fundraising plan and how are
you at meeting the guidelines that were set up and when do you anticipate reaching
the half million dollar mark?
Dick Summerwill/First of all we did not hire a consultam for the fund raising, we hired a
consultant to look at how the Englert Theater should operate so the fund raising
was all done locally by independent people, contacting people one on one and with
the people that you heard La Donna talk about. We have raised approximately
$600,000 to date through those contributions, one on one, we have approximately
$200,000 a little more than 200 and the rest in pledges, those pledges are payable
over a four year period with the majority of them frankly in the second in the first,
second and third year not counting this year. The reason we have requested that
the city sell it to us on contract interest free is that that place has been sitting dark
now since the city bought it, with the exception of the tours that have been run
there, it is incredibly important that we start putting money into the restoration of
that building, we don't feel like we can justify putting in anything more than the
$500,000, we must keep $500,000 for the city in cash and pledges so as we go on
and raise money and you have to understand the only way you can raise this kind
of money is through pledges, people do not give the kind of money we're talking
about in cash. They gave it over a multi-year period and so when we have one
year of pledges and one year of cash we are pretty well stuck with what we can do
because we can only spend the cash, because we frankly can't afford the interest
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and so when we put them put that money in it has to be spendable money and it
can not spend pledges that are not cash so what that tells you is that we need to
finance over this period of time in order for us to spend the dear cash that we have
right up front, reconstructing that theater and getting it open. It doesn't do
anybody any good in this city to have it sit dark.
Wilburn/How soon would you anticipate if we do some type of contract sale would you
anticipate some type of renovation occurring?
Summerwill/With a contract sale we know we have to raise $450,000 to get it open, we
have $100,000 of that so it could get started right away if we did it exactly as we
ask you to do it. Once we do that we'll go back on a fundraising kick again and
frankly if we raise another $100,000 in pledges we will be able to replace, we will
be able to use those pledges, we will be able to use the cash that we now have and
replace those with pledges so we'll be able to go at it much much faster. But we
still have to raise $350,000 more, the job is still ahead of us.
Champion/Dick how much do you does your group feel they'll have to spend to open it,
to get it open?
Summerwill/Well it's the combination of the five, we have to raise a million dollars.
Lehman/Before you ever open the door?
Summerwill/Yea, not a million dollars more.
Champion/Oh $400,000 more.
Summerwill/$450,000 more and we have a $100,000 of that so you know $350,000
more.
Lehman/Dick Mr. Pohl said that if he bought the building he said he would invest $3 to
$500,000 and open the door what was he going to do?
Summerwill/That's about the same number we're talking about.
Justine Zimmer/I can answer that question if you want.
Summerwill/And he was going to be a little cheaper than we were on some things about
300,000 to 500,000 bucks, we're talking about $450,000.
Lehman/Investment in the building?
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Summerwill/Yes.
Lehman/OK.
Summerwill/I mean he would have paid for the building and then invested more.
Justine Zimmer/I can actually answer that question a little better.
Lehman/I don't think we're really, all were really concerned about I think is whether or
not, you know obviously the council said six months ago that we would facilitate
the purchase of the Englert building and what we ask at that time was that we sell
the building back to the coalition at the end of six months for $500,000 and that' s
where we are and the proposal that we have before us is a request that we sell it on
contract for $100,000 down, $100,000 a year for four years interest free, is that?
Summerwill/That's correct.
Lehman/Pretty much where we are so I guess the discussion pretty much needs to be
whether or not that is something that we would entertain.
Champion/Well I think this kind of decision also requires a lot of vision on our part and I
think it's a vision that is a very positive vision with a lot of community support and
yet it is going to cost us money but you know we might get it back before then,
they might just really have a windfall and I mean I really want the council to
support this, I'm willing to look at other options ifthere's not support for it but I
think it's a very positive thing for the future of Iowa City and I'm not going to go
into my long spiel you guys all know how I feel about this but I think this is I think
in 20 years we'll be very thankful that we did do this and they do need to get it
open and I think that' s imperative they get it open.
Vanderhoef/Is there any possibility of using it for a year without major renovations?
Justine Zimmer/I can answer that too, we've talked to the.
Lehman/If your going to speak you have to speak in the mic.
Karr/And could I have your name also.
Justine Zimmer/My name is Justine Zimmer, we've talked to city building and planning
commission, we have to get architectural plans done and then we have to get a
work permit, and research all the code and then we can get an occupancy permit
once we've done all the renovations up to code. Because we're opening up that
stage area a lot of things change, that was technically a storage area for such a
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long time that now since we're returning it back into a stage area we have to
change a lot of things in the building, we have to put a sprinkler system in, a lot of
these things have to be done before we can get an occupancy permit and that' s
what the extra $400,000 is for just getting it up to code so we can open it. That
$400,000 doesn't include all the renovations for historical restoration, and a lot of
it will include basic stage stuff so we can get you can have live performances there
but it will not be the total package, that's what the $1.6 million is for so we can get
it completely redone and all the historical stuff done to it and there' s a lot of grant
money out there for it, that's what were going to go for, we're going to go for all
these, we've got a really strong grant committee, there' s a lot of money out there,
if you can get us started we're going to do the rest of the work so.
Champion/So you need $400,000 just to meet code.
Wicklund/Can I add though that we've only had six months to do this and I'm not even
sure it's six and that we just started our seat sponsoring sale, we've only sold 67
seats, we just feel like that we've just brushed the surface and that if we sold all of
the seats that' s $400,000 nearly $400,000, we have not had an opportunity to
develop the large donors because that's a development issue and that takes time,
you can't ask someone once you have to develop trust in a project and we want to
go after the larger donors and then of course we want to do a lot of grant writing,
we have huge grants that are out there, so I think I mean I look at it as if we have
just begun really to even to with $7,000 people contributing in this community
we've only just begun there.
Champion/Well I think you've done an incredible job to raise what you've raised in a
short period of time, you've raised it, I'm sorry but the people who are raising it, I
don't mean that derogatorily I mean complementary that you're all just really
amateurs.
(All laughing)
Summerwill/That' s all right Connie there are a lot of amateurs in this room.
Lehman/That didn't come out right either Dick.
Vanderhoef/I think it was right on (can't hear).
Kanner/A couple more questions, sir I didn't get your name.
Summerwill/Dick Summerwill.
Champion/Oh my god.
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Kanner/Dick you didn't quite answer my question even though you didn't have a paid
consultant to outline your fund raising my question is though did you have a fund
raising plan and are you meeting it? Did you, in other words did you plan to have
$500,000 in cash by today was that, that' s what we were anticipating, is that what
you were anticipating? Or just having pledges and what' s your plan in the next
year or two in the next months over the next few months to get closer to that extra
$400,000? And anyone could answer this I guess.
Summerwill/The answer to your question is, did we meet our plan, the answer is in
spades, the answer, the question you asked did we think we could raise $500,000
in cash in six months, the answer is absolutely not. So we are doing what we
could do and as I said when I started, the only way you raise this amount of
money in this period of time is with pledges, which takes you to the next point if
we can use the pledges that we will raise in the next six months to basically secure
the city' s contract we will be able to use the cash that we get for renovation. If we
strip us of all the cash, well first of all we don't have it, there is no way that we can
get it, we can not go back to people and ask them to fulfill their five year pledge
tomorrow. It's impossible.
Kanner/Another question is that in your budget you had written that you would be paying
property tax and is that still part of your budget that you'll be, you anticipate
paying property tax?
Zimmer/In our feasibility study yes that' s in our budget to pay property tax, we are going
to ask you that we request that we don't pay it.
Lehman/You're going to ask for no interest and no tax?
Zimmer/Right.
Lehman/(can't hear) project then I'm willing to go.
Zimmer/We have to ask that' s all I have to say now you can say no but I would prefer
you didn't but there are ways around that if. He said it really well.
Summerwill/When it's up and running you may change your mind because of what it does
for the city.
Atkins/I don't think you have the authority to just vacate their tax obligation.
Lehman/Oh that makes it easier.
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Atkins/I don't think you can do that, I think it's a matter of law.
Dilkes/No.
Champion/Do they qualify under our revitalization program for tax exemption or?
Atkins/That's within investment remember Connie, it's increased investment and the
answer would be yes.
Lehman/Eleanor you were about to say something.
Dilkes/Just waiting (can't hear).
Summerwill/As you can see before long we're going to have 10 of us up there no matter
what you (can't hear).
Lehman/You get to nine and we're going to come to a hasty hasty decision.
Summerwill/Well at least seven.
Dilkes/I'm not sure what the question was, was the question with the, was the request
that with the contract purchase we the city would pay the taxes as a seller or is that
you would be looking at getting a tax exemption property tax exemption?
John Shaw/What we have been aware all along is whether we would be exempt from
taxes or not will be a legal question and will have to be examined after we are a
bona fide non profit organization.
Summerwill/501 C. 3.
Shaw/501C.3. We included the cost of property taxes in our original budget because we
did not want to paint an overly optimistic picture, we didn't know whether that
was going to be part of the expenses or whether we would be exempt, so we put
that in there so we couldn't have someone come back and say look you didn't even
include this you don't know whether it's going to be in there or not. I think it's,
it's my understanding it will be a legal determination whether we qualify or not.
Dilkes/Yea you need to go through the process and then readvise the.
Summerwill/Yes but I also think that we want to be up front in saying that we will pursue
tax exempt status.
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Pfab/I believe one of the reasons that the city involved was that it was going to go back
on the tax rolls so this is a double X sword. I believe that was one of their
advantages, that was one of the selling points that we were asked to buy this that
eventually this would go back on the tax rolls and I think Ernie kind of alluded to
that too in the sense that this thing is turning is taking some wild and wooly??
turns.
Champion/There' s a lot of ways to bring money into a community outside of property
tax, now I don't know if they're going to be tax exempt or not but for me that' s
not a question I can answer but.
Lehman/Well no and that's not our question. Our question is whether or not we're
willing to enter into a contract with the coalition for the purchase of the property
now I think this.
Pfab/Now was this six months ago or was this nine months ago?
Atkins/Nine.
Lehman/Nine I think.
Pfab/Yea six months is a.
Lehman/But I think when we did this I do not recall Richard in all fairness any statement
ever being made by any member of the coalition or the Council other than we were
expecting $500,000 in nine months.
Pfab/Right and you came and asked for six months and I remember distinctly I said no
that' s not enough time why don't you do nine months but if you don't have the
money by that time let' s get rid of it as far as the city' s, take it off, the city' s
obligation, get rid of it from the city' s obligation.
Lehman/All right so what do we want to do guys and ladies?
Champion/Let' s go for it.
Kanner/I had another question for them.
Lehman/Go ahead.
Kanner/ You' re asking us to make more of a commitment and one of my concerns is
accessibility for people with different income levels and different folks and Council
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perhaps having some spaces to appoint on the board of directors and I was
wondering if you could speak to that if you had any.
Champion/We're not going to own it.
Shaw/I think part of your question is accessibility, I think your talking about economic
accessibility.
Kanner/Right.
Summerwill/A money issue, it's not the intent of the board to manage the individual
programs that would be presented at the Englert. We are not going to be a show
organizing and producing body, we will rent the Englert out to individual shows or
individual concerns that wish to use the space. We and this has not been, it has
been alluded in previous board meetings, it's not been codified or set out but it's
my feeling and I can't speak for the entire board but knowing the board they
would be very amenable to a sliding scale for the organizations that wish to use the
Englert, use the venue for their individual productions, that doesn't mean that we
would have any control over the individual ticket prices that those individual
organizations chose to charge. In response to your question about the city having
some representation on the board again I can't speak for the entire board but I feel
that we would welcome all the help we can get and if we're, if the city wishes to
partake in some way on the board we would welcome that.
Champion/Isn't it my understanding maybe this is a legal question, the group becomes the
owner with the contract right?
Dilkes/The 501C.3 corporation they are.
Lehman/Corporation does.
Dilkes/Yes. Well just so we're clear the way it works basically your going to be in the
position of a lender.
Champion/Right.
Dilkes/That' s what a contract seller is is in a position of the lender, if the buyer does not
comply with the terms, does not pay then you have the right to forfeit the contract
and take the property back.
Shaw/Steven just to answer the rest of your question on participation we would dearly
love to have all seven of you participate with us. We can keep you all very very
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busy and if nobody else will have you on their committees why I'd like to have you
(can't hear) so join us please.
Wilburn/Well I think with the mixture of cash, stock and pledges and I mean we all saw
the activity and we've heard at least the guesstimates at what the numbers over the
summer about support and you see all the bumper stickers around town so I'm
trying to balance something that the community wants and try to be careful and
cautious with what type of precedence we might be setting. So I'm willing to go,
to show some flexibility to go along with the contract sale, I don't, you know I
know we didn't have on paper, or maybe it was on paper $500,000 cash when this
was first discussed but like I said because of the amount of activity I think that if
we do this then it might increase some other chances of getting further
organizational support with this grant or foundation or even just to get some
activity going on down there to make this happen. So I guess in this case at this
time I'll be willing to go along with it if conditions change, if according to the
contract if a deadline isn't met and we are in the position of a lender I don't know
that I'd be willing to be flexible in the future so.
Lehman/OK other comment.
Pfab/I wouldn't, I would vote against this type of arrangement, I'm not to sure where or
how much I would compromise, I just, I don't think it's good for the people who
are working on the Englert because right away basically you had a contract with
the city and you weren't able to go through with it you know, we the city was I
think extended a hand and helped you when there was dire straights and I think we
went walked the extra mile with you and you wanted to have a way of being
incredible to your other investors and I believe that this contract just doesn't, the
rest of the citizens in this city I think are not getting a fair shake.
Lehman/OK.
Kanner/I was wondering if perhaps we could consider that one of the fears that we will
go along with this and let's say they don't, they're not able to follow through and
we end up owning the building, I would wonder if we could consider that we
would the money would that they have would be put into the building so that is,
that as a city we would recoup our losses.
Champion/Steven they are going to keep the pledges to pay us, they are not going to
spend, isn't that correct? They're going to keep, what they want to be able to
spend is cash as it comes in instead of you know so actually they're not going to
deplete the pledges beyond what they need to pay us. Isn't that my understanding?
Summerwill/That's correct.
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Champion/So you will make sure that there is always money to make that $100,000
payment or whatever it's going to be. So there is security for us in the sense that
they will have that amount of pledges, now of course those have to be paid, I don't
know what the default of pledges is I'm sure there' s some. But the other thing is
to that there will already be improvements to this building so it's probably going to
be worth more than $500,000 or $700,000 whatever the figure is. And I don't
think we're going to have trouble selling it if it falls back on our lap but I don't
anticipate that happening but we're not taking a big risk here, it is going to cost us
money, I mean there' s no argument about that but we're really not taking a very
good risk, I mean a very bad risk.
Kanner/Well one of the things and I don't know if this carries over but they have said that
people who have given $250.00 or more they'll refund their donations if this
deadline was not met. And now I'm wondering if they're going to keep that throw
it into the future in some way I guess want it to be clear that the money would go
into the Englert and then the city would reap the benefit of those improvements in
the future. I want it clear in the contract in that sense that the money comes to
the, all the money that's collected that comes to the city or into the Englert
however we want to word that.
Vanderhoef/Let me try this.
Lehman/Well let Dick answer that question.
Summerwill/Yea I think that when you talk like that we get confusing results and so what
we're going to do is you own the building for $700,000 right today, we're going
to buy it on contract and pay you $200,000 which is your own money tomorrow,
let' s say but at that same time we're going to add $100,000 to it so your going to
basically be a lender to the tune of $400,000 immediately. We're going to start
putting improvements into that building all of the time, that we have the money to
do it, a year from now we're going to pay another $100,000 so your going to be
into it for $300,000 and the value of the building just keeps going up.
Lehman/Yea but Richard I guess one of the question if I heard you right, if you went, if
we enter into a contract with the coalition the pledges that are made to the
coalition are obviously quote "valid pledges" if we don't enter into a contract
obviously those pledges are not valid. They don't have to pay you anything if that,
if you don't buy the building.
Summerwill/Absolutely.
Lehman/If you buy the building that really validates the pledges.
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Summerwill/That validates the pledges, that' s what we've said if we're first successful in
phase one bingo the money is in.
Vanderhoef/OK I guess I have a question about default on the contract before the
$400,000 is paid off if the fundraising slows down that you can't meet the
$100,000 annually.
Summerwill/We have the pledges to do that today.
Champion/They have them.
Summerwill/We are not going to spend those pledges that today that we have unless we
get others to take their place so there will always be those same pledges in place to
pay the contract.
woman/$613,000.
Pfab/I have kind of an interesting question here is this something that we should be doing
at a public meeting?
Lehman/Absolutely this is public business.
Pfab/I mean should this be done at a formal meeting?
Lehman/No I don't think it has to be.
Dilkes/In a what I'm sorry?
Lehman/In a formal meeting.
Pfab/Rather than a work session. I think we're basically doing.
Lehman/Well this is not on the agenda for tomorrow night, we have a contract with
Mr. Pohl to purchase that building back on Wednesday, we come to some
agreement with these folks tonight and enter a contract by Wednesday night or we
don't have any contract with anybody. We can't talk about this tomorrow night,
it's not on the agenda, it's on the agenda tonight.
Kanner/Well we could, add it to the agenda at the end.
Lehman/I'm not sure we could do it, it takes 24 hours and the meeting starts tomorrow
night at 7:00 and it's now a quarter after 8:00.
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Kanner/Well we did it at other times with we put something with just 24 hours notice we
had one.
Lehman/Can't give 24 hours notice.
Dilkes/You put it on by 7. We typically put it on by 7.
Lehman/You have to have it on by 7:00.
Dilkes/Start of the next meeting.
Lehman/I don't think that, I mean there' s any secrets here, Mike do you have a feeling?
O'Donnell/Gee Ernie I was waiting until you talked. You know I was one of the people
that said this is a private venture and should be funded private but it's clear to me
that there' s a great deal of community support out there to the tune of 7,000
people and I feel safe that the pledges will not be spent and we'll get $100,000 a
year. And I have problem with no property taxes and it just seems un-American
not to have any interest.
Summerwill/That's music to my ears, I like that.
O'Donnell/(can't hear). But you know I also think that we should work with this because
I do think it will benefit the community.
Lehman/Let me ask you a question Richard if we decide to accept the contract that you
have proposed are you in a position to sign a purchase agreement with the city by
Wednesday night?
Summerwill/Yes.
Lehman/Now I think there are certain terms of that agreement that probably need to be
discussed for example if we, if you do default and the city has to sell the property I
would want in that contract that the city recovers all of the expenses incurred by
the city.
Summerwill/Fair enough.
Lehman/I mean lost interest, value of the money that' s been invested, lost taxes,
maintenance, I mean just so that and I don't anticipate this would ever happen but
if it ever should happen that the net cost of the city on the whole thing would be a
zero.
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Summerwill/Fair enough, we expect that.
Lehman/I have no problem, I mean I, with that kind of support from within the
community and I don't know if the Council has calculated but that cost of the
interest on this is approximately .25 cents per person per year four years.
O'Donnell/Ernie that figure, you know I like it so much better when it's $65,000 over a
period of four years.
Lehman/But .25 cents per person.
O'Donnell/Because that' s a lot more money.
Lehman/Yea 25 cents a year is pretty skinny.
O'Donnell/That's pretty skinny I.
Lehman/And I certainly would love to have interest but I think the project if we felt it was
important enough nine months ago to move forward with it I just want to be very
very sure that anything we enter into if there is a problem we recover every nickel
we have invested in it.
Pfab/Lost interest.
Lehman/Yea that' s what I said, lost opportunity cost, lost taxes, maintenance, insurance,
utilities, whatever we've got involved and I think we know what those numbers
are for now.
Vanderhoef/They're pretty well spelled out in this, and the lost interest on the $400,000 I
have thought about a balloon payment at the end so that you would have working
capital to keep going on all of this, if you get that windfall.
(END OF TAPE 00-102 SIDE TWO)
O'Donnell/I'm afraid that would have to be in the contract.
Lehman/Steve.
Summerwill/Could we talk about the contract Ernie? One of the things is.
Kanner/Excuse me I just wanted to say something.
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Summerwill/Sure.
Kanner/I think two things, one my questions earlier about money that' s left there, they're
saying they're setting aside $100,000 each year ifit's, let's say they for some
reason they don't have $100,000.
Lehman/They're setting aside $400,000, the $100,000 they give us, they're retainage is
$400,000 in pledges.
Kanner/But they're going to say, whatever they have they're saying they going to have,
they're going to be able to pay $100,000.
Lehman/But they're keeping the $400,000, not $100,000 a year, they're keeping in
pledges the $400,000 which is the amount they owe the city.
Kanner/They're not going to keep the $400,000.
Lehman/Yes that's the amount they're not going to spend.
Kanner/Whatever way it ends up I think we need to make sure in the contract that if there
is any money things can change, these are well meaning people but things have
changed from what was presented to us before and I think we need to make sure in
the contract it says that the money, any money that' s left reverts to us.
Champion/I think the legal department will probably handle the contract pretty well.
Lehman/All right Dick contract.
Summerwill/The contract you will, the city will keep the deed, they will sell it to us on
contract we will be the legal holders of it but you will keep the deed. If we forfeit
the contract you can forfeit us out in a 30 day period maximum 60 days, you will
sell the building and you will take what' s rightfully yours, it will be a very easy
process.
Lehman/I don't (can't hear).
Dilkes/And the other thing to remember in terms of covering your costs is that when you
forfeit, if you would forfeit the contract let' s say they make their $100,000 down
payment and then they don't make their second payment and you take the property
back. You take the property back but you also keep the $100,000.
Lehman/I'm well aware of that, I'm well aware of that.
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Dilkes/That they initially paid. So that should, that initial $100,000 should cover those
expenses. So we probably won't have a term that' s specifically, that' s the way the
recoupment of your costs will work.
Lehman/Right.
Summerwill/Right.
Lehman/Can, how, Eleanor how do we work this out by Wednesday because my
understanding is that we should have some signed agreement by Wednesday night
is that not correct?
Dilkes/We have to have, the way I read the agreements with the coalition and with
Mr. Pohl we need to have a purchase agreement in place by Wednesday. We
probably in the form of a purchase offer from you all with these terms that I can
have Steve sign, it will have to be subject to formal City Council approval which
we will have to know we can get by an informal consensus here of four of you.
Pfab/What is wrong with just going to write in the contract?
Dilkes/Pardon me.
Pfab/Why not a purchase agreement just not write a contract?
Dilkes/Because we can't close the transaction by Wednesday.
Lehman/Until the 2 1 st.
Dilkes/We'll do a purchase agreement that will provide for a contract sale and then we
will write a real estate contract and close that sale.
Summerwill/Would you like to do that or would you like us to do that? Us.
Lehman/All right. How many Council people approve of moving forward with this
because it's terribly important if we move forward with this that there' s nobody
changing their mind on the 21 st when it comes to approve the contract. How
many will favor this? I see six people.
Pfab/I didn't say yes or no earlier.
Lehman/You said no earlier.
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Pfab/No I said was I am very uncomfortable with this now is there, is it possible that a
better, a more favorable contract to the city can be negotiated?
Lehman/I don't know that we have a lot of time for negotiations.
Pfab/No, no, no, I mean is this their final offer?
Champion/We've already got six people for it.
Lehman/Well there's six people who say it's OK, so write it up thank you.
Summerwill/Did he say yes or no?
Lehman/He hasn't said.
Champion/He said no.
Summerwill/I would love to (can't hear).
Lehman/What' s that.
Pfab/I will say yes.
Lehman/All right it's a 7-0 (can't hear). Good luck folks, obviously we feel, obviously
we feel strongly about this.
CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS (1P5 of 11/2 info. pkt.)
Lehman/Campaign contributions, Eleanor. $100,000 for five years.
Champion/I don't think we're going to get any contributions this year.
Pfab/I think we just spent them.
Kanner/I guess we're not as important.
Dilkes/OK I think the memo pretty much sets it out, my conclusion is that that recent
Supreme Court decision which reversed the 8 circuit decision which was binding,
we are in the 8 circuit which was binding and (can't hear) which is why I
recommend appeal. A year ago or so the Supreme Court reversed the 8 circuit
and imposed a much lower level of scrutiny on regulation on campaign
contributions so I think if you want to and believe it's necessary to prevent
corruption or the appearance of corruption that you can put such a limit in place
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and my review the contributions made in the last election when the limit wasn't in
place would say that I think we could defend a $100.00 limit.
Lehman/Is that what we had before that we?
Dilkes/$50.00.
Champion/$50.00
Kanner/Actually for each election.
Dilkes/$50.00 for each election.
Kanner/Primary and general.
Lehman/Right, $50 primary, $50 general $100.
Dilkes/Actually what is sort of interesting the original limit was $125.00 years and years
ago and it was reduced to $50.
Vanderhoef/(can't hear).
Pfab/It adjusted to inflation.
Lehman/Well do we want to do anything with this?
Vanderhoef/You know I don't see that it's a problem, I don't know why we do it at all.
O'Donnell/And you look in the paper there was disclosures and hardly any went over
$100.00.
Lehman/So are we saying we don't see that there' s a need for something fixing. But Irvin
says it isn't broke we don't fix it.
Pfab/Well is it broke? I don't know.
Kanner/I like the quote from the court that you put in here from the ruling the Supreme
Court I assume. "There is little reason to doubt that sometimes large contributions
will work actual corruption of our political system and no reason to question the
existence of a corresponding suspension of voters." And I think it made sense
before to have the limits and I think the court concurs with that and I think we
should concur to lay any possible suspensions that there's any possible corruption
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by large contributions. I think there is concern out there and on national level and
the local level, I think it's worthwhile to have these limits.
Lehman/Other discussion.
Pfab/There' s nothing wrong with it I just, is it another rule that we want, I have no
objection to it and it's just (can't hear).
Wilburn/I would support setting a limit just for, well I think it' s more of a, Steven was
kind of getting at it, a public perception maybe it's in some ways it's a feel good
type thing but if your I mean some candidates went ahead and set up self imposed
limit but I think that especially given national and state concern about the
influence of money and persons who are on the lower end of the economic
spectrum.
Pfab/I would support it.
Lehman/All right.
Champion/What amount do you like?
Wilburn/The $100 sounds.
Champion/Yea I would I think the limit is a good idea.
Lehman/All right we've got three for a $100.00 going once, going twice, four going
once, going, are you going to bid?
O'Donnell/No.
Kanner/I would propose that we go with the $50/$50 like it was before.
Lehman/All right.
Champion/What was the $50/$50?
Vanderhoef/That was the one that wasn't defensible.
Wilburn/Defensible.
Lehman/So that one's not defensible.
Kanner/No it' s a total of $100, it' s what we had before the appeals.
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Pfab/No everybody' s shaking their head so I don't know.
Dilkes/$50/$50 is what we, well we had $50 in any election.
Lehman/Right.
Dilkes/Now I think I can defend $100 in any election based on what we've got here.
Kanner/So your saying that a total of $200.00.
Dilkes/If there was a primary and a.
Kanner/A primary and a general.
Wilburn/I would support that.
Lehman/All right we've got one that support a $100.00.
Pfab/That's fine.
Lehman/Two.
Vanderhoef/I'm all right either way.
Lehman/Three.
Kanner/I'm for $50/$50.
O'Donnell/I'll support $100.
Lehman/Write something up for $100.00 and we'll pass it.
Kanner/So $100/$100 is what (can't hear).
Lehman/Thank you Eleanor.
Dilkes/Now wait a minute.
Lehman/I'm sorry, wasn't that simple?
Dilkes/You guys, you have to think this is necessary to accomplish that purpose, you
have to think it's necessary to prevent corruption or the appearance of corruption.
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Champion/I think the appearance of corruption.
Wilburn/The appearance of corruption in this one.
Dilkes/OK I just, I don't want such a quite such a nonchalant attitude here, you mean you
can't, we've got to have a little more.
Pfab/We are very concerned that it looks like corruption.
Champion/For instance ifErnie is running for reelection and he gets a $5,000 contribution
from Boyd Electric.
Lehman/Look out.
Champion/I mean that's my objective to not having (can't hear).
Dilkes/I appreciate, that' s what I need articulated. Now one more question, we really
haven't had an enforcement mechanism since about 1976 those provisions were
repealed, it seems to have worked so far it's been a self enforcing thing I think for
the most part and but I wanted to make sure you had no interest in putting in a
specific enforcement mechanism. No okay. All righty.
Lehman/Thank you Eleanor.
Kanner/Thank you.
CABLE CHANNEL NAME CHANGE
Lehman/Cable channel name change.
Helling/The reason that' s on there is because the last time you talked about it we
discovered in examining the transcript there may have been an understanding on
part of at least some of the Council Members that this was going to come back to
you for a formal action which it would not. It appeared at that time there was a
majority had no objection but the question was raised and we just wanted to make
sure before we went ahead and finished the changing the logos and everything.
Pfab/Fine with me.
Lehman/It's okay with me.
Champion/Okay.
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Vanderhoef/Yep.
Lehman/All right you've got a go.
2001 MEETING DATE
Lehman/2001 meeting schedule and budget work sessions which is a good time to set that
out before we all get conflicts.
Karr/I had placed a memo in your packet just as a thought process and encouraged you to
bring the calendars with you, about this time last year we had some success in
setting aside four or five dates. I included the meeting schedule with you and also
noted in there that the resolution adopting the budget must be done by March 6 so
you can look at that schedule and back into proposed meeting dates hopefully.
Vanderhoef/March 6.
Lehman/How many dates would you like us to set?
Karr/Well we've been successful in the past with four.
Lehman/Four dates in January or four?
Karr/Four or five, well you must have it, we must set it for public hearing, again, let me
back up one second and say what the premise that I used here was your regular
schedule meeting dates, certainly special council dates and meeting dates could
alter the plan so.
Lehman/Well we're going to meet the 8th and 9th for regular meetings or special
meetings because the 1 st is on a holiday.
Karr/Correct and so your next one is 15th-16th so you need to have by the meeting of
February 6 you'll be setting the public hearing February 6. We must have the
budget on file then by the 10th of February, so I would suggest four meeting dates
in late January.
Lehman/Can we? Four meeting dates in late January.
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Karr/Well by February 6th your going to be setting the public hearing, it's got to be
published by the 10th.
Champion/Well how about starting with the easy one which would be our off week
Tuesday night.
Kanner/The first week of January.
Vanderhoef/We can start even in the first week of January as far as I'm concerned.
Kanner/That' s what I was thinking, maybe the fourth or something.
Lehman/Well is that going to work for?
Atkins/I'll be ready.
Lehman/You'll be ready the first week of January?
Atkins/Yep.
Vanderhoef/So like Thursday or?
Lehman/Well what's wrong, oh Tuesday you don't want to do.
Kanner/Well it's right after the first.
Vanderhoef/Wednesday or Thursday of that week.
Lehman/Wednesday's are out for me.
Champion/Do we, no I think Tuesday nights of the off weeks of Council meeting.
Karr/But see the off week in January Connie just looking at the schedule and I think Ernie
is talking about right now, you typically meet the first and third but because the
first work session hit January 1 New Years Day.
Champion/OK well we can start with at least one Tuesday of that off week.
Karr/The second, January 2nd then.
Lehman/The second is Tuesday.
Champion/Oh.
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Karr/That' s what I'm asking, that would be January 2nd. They happen to.
Champion/Yea why not.
Kanner/I might be traveling back on the 2nd.
Karr/And the third doesn't work, what about the 4th?
Vanderhoef/4th is fine.
Lehman/4th is a Thursday. Yes.
Karr/Now can I also throw another wrench into it, it doesn't have to be an evening if you
don't want it to be.
Champion/Don't worry I was going to bring that up.
Karr/OK go right ahead.
O'Donnell/Just as long it's not 5:00 in the morning.
Champion/But the 4th is a Thursday of a non meeting week.
Karr/Yes it is.
Lehman/Yes.
Champion/OK that would be good for me.
Kanner/In the evening?
Lehman/Well I think evenings are going to work best for perhaps most of us, I can do
days I don't know Ross what that does to you.
Wilburn/Actually the latter half of the week day time would be better for me so I don't
have to get child care.
Lehman/You mean like Thursday would work in the day?
Champion/Like 7:00 in the morning.
Vanderhoef/Come on.
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Wilburn/I can't function that early in the morning.
Vanderhoef/7:30, 8:30.
Wilburn/A Thursday daytime would be okay.
O'Donnell/I don't care just put it in.
Lehman/All right, Thursday AM or night?
Champion/Well if it works best mornings I think are wonderful.
Lehman/8:30 Thursday the 4th.
O'Donnell/Oh that's a wonderful time.
Pfab/8:30 that' s AM right.
Karr/OK I'm sorry was that 8:30?
Champion/Now I have to have a deadline though, I can't.
Karr/8:30 to 10:30, you want two hours?
Lehman/Oh I don't well the first one is.
Karr/You want to go to noon.
Atkins/The first one is always the longest.
Champion/Okay noon.
Karr/8:30 to noon.
Atkins/I can certainly have you out of here by noon.
Lehman/All right the following Thursday is the 1 lth.
Karr/Yea but that's a meeting week so your meeting the 8th and 9th, you can do that but
your meeting Monday and Tuesday that week.
Lehman/All right.
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Champion/Unless you want to do another morning meeting.
Lehman/On the 1 lth morning, 8:30.
Kanner/Well it's kind of hard in the morning for me with working, evening is better.
Lehman/Well do you want a third meeting that week? We have a council meeting
Monday and Tuesday.
Champion/I don't want a third evening meeting that week.
O'Donnell/I don't either.
Lehman/All right go to the week of the 15th, but days are bad for you also.
Karr/15th and 16th are meeting week also.
Kanner/Well I can do some I have some flexibility.
Lehman/Would 18th work for you the daytime?
Champion/What day of the week is that?
O 'Donnell/That' s Friday.
Karr/Thursday.
Kanner/Well it's the same thing if we can I mean Friday is good for me, Thursday evening
I can if no one else can, I can change around my schedule.
Lehman/We can go to the week of the 22nd.
Vanderhoef/Well I'm thinking we may get on a (can't hear)?
Champion/Well what about Friday morning, Friday the 13th.
Lehman/I can't do it on Fridays at all.
Champion/Oh okay can't to it on Fridays.
Vanderhoef/Thursday the 1 lth or Thursday the 18th one of those two.
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Karr/Okay and those are both meeting weeks.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Karr/Okay that' s fine.
Wilburn/Since we went one morning I'd be willing to go ahead and compromise and go
and get some child care.
Pfab/Which evening?
Lehman/The 1 lth.
Vanderhoef/No there's a basketball game.
Champion/Oh well.
Vanderhoef/Illinois.
Champion/We can schedule around.
Karr/The 1 lth though Dee is what they're talking about aren't you not the 18th.
Vanderhoef/The 1 lth is a basketball.
Karr/Right.
Lehman/I'll call Alford and get it changed for you.
Vanderhoef/Thank you.
Kanner/So can people do it the 18th then?
Lehman/18th will work for me.
Kanner/18th in the evening you prefer that (can't hear).
Lehman/6:30 on the 18th.
Vanderhoef/OK.
Champion/Is that a meeting week?
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Karr/Yes it is.
Champion/I'm not willing to come three nights in a week, I'm not willing to do it.
Kanner/What about Monday morning the 22nd?
Lehman/Well what about daytime?
Pfab/Yes Connie what would you prefer?
Vanderhoef/Thursday morning the 18th.
Kanner/It's easier for me Monday the 22nd during the day, can you do Monday' s.
O'Donnell/(can't hear)
Karr/No is there nothing on the 22nd, our meetings in January are 8-9, 15 - 16.
Lehman/I can do it after, I can't do it in the morning but I can do it in the afternoon or
evening.
Karr/On the 22nd.
Kanner/Afternoon works for me.
Lehman/No Monday the 22nd.
Vanderhoef/Anytime Monday is okay with me.
Lehman/Monday the 22nd day or night.
Pfab/That should be okay.
Lehman/Day or night.
Kanner/Well day we were proposing in the afternoon.
Champion/Is that an off week?
Karr/That' s an off week.
Champion/Then I don't care if it's an off week.
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Kanner/Well maybe we can do two.
Vanderhoef/Two that week, we'll we've got to give staff time between sometimes we do.
Karr/Well this is just your second one you have, you've only got.
Champion/Well I though we've got one.
Kanner/Yea don't we have the 18th?
(All talking).
Karr/No, no you did not do the 18th.
Kanner/How about the 22nd at 1:00.
Pfab/The 18th died?
Vanderhoef/I can do that.
Wilburn/The 22nd at 1:00.
Lehman/The 22nd at 1:00.
Kanner/Okay we've got two.
Karr/Is that 1:00 to 5:00?
Kanner/1 to 3 is that?
Karr/Is that 1 to 3, 1 to 57
Lehman/Well I think you'd better put that from 1 to 4 or 5.
Kanner/1 to 5 okay.
Karr/Okay the 22nd.
Lehman/Let' s get another one that week.
Karr/
Pfab/What about the 23 the next day Tuesday?
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Vanderhoef/Or Wednesday.
Pfab/Probably easier for people to schedule a Tuesday but that' s a thought.
Vanderhoef/And that Thursday is.
Pfab/Say Tuesday evening the 23rd.
Vanderhoef/OK.
Lehman/All right.
Karr/6:30.
Lehman/Yep.
Kanner/Did you say the 23rd?
Karr/6:30 got it, that' s three.
Lehman/That' s three.
Champion/Well (can't hear) middle one.
Lehman/Monday the 22nd, the 23rd and then the first one was on Thursday.
Champion/Two meetings in a row over our break can we handle that?
Lehman/Well obviously we deal with it poorly at Council meetings, we do it on Monday
and Tuesday both.
Champion/Well that' s a problem (can't hear).
Karr/How about, that' s three, one more, so next week is an off week also the 291h and
30th is a Monday Tuesday.
Champion/Can we do a morning one then, do we have another morning one?
O'Donnell/Let's do another morning one.
Wilburn/Another morning one.
Lehman/Tuesday the 30th 8:30 in the morning, does that work?
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Vanderhoef/Yes.
Champion/Perfect I love it.
Lehman/Does that work, 8:30 Tuesday morning.
Pfab/Tuesday 8:30 until when?
Lehman/Until noon.
Champion/Until we're done, it's our last one.
Lehman/All right there' s four scheduled, good.
Karr/Okay so that's January 4th 8:30 to noon, the 22nd 1-5, the 23rd 6:30 PM, the 30th
8:30 to noon.
O'Donnell/And we'll got a copy of that.
Karr/Yes I'll make a copy.
Kanner/Did you want, Marian did you want some suggestions on the schedule for the
year?
Karr/The schedule for the year is set by resolution do you want to do it.
Kanner/Well I just want to mention two things and we don't have to decide it now but
one is election night there will be a city council meeting and we might want to
consider another night for that.
Karr/Right.
Kanner/And then for me Rosh Hashanah Jewish New Year is on one of our Council
meetings in November.
Lehman/We can change that.
Karr/So I think probably what we'll do is take a look at November a little bit closer to
that because we'll also know then.
Kanner/September I mean.
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Karr/Steven's league meeting and conference dates by then and we may want to make a
big adjustment at that time.
Lehman/Okay.
Vanderhoef/And we can do summer schedule and (can't hear).
COUNCIL TIME
Lehman/Right, now council time.
O'Donnell/One quick thing.
Lehman/Quick.
O'Donnell/There' s also an election.
Lehman/(can't hear) starts in 9 minutes.
O 'Donnell/What' s that?
Lehman/Game starts in 9 minutes?
Champion/What game?
Lehman/City high, go ahead.
O'Donnell/Forgot, there is an election tomorrow night so I want council tonight to be
efficient tomorrow night, let' s get everything done so we can go home and watch
the returns, hopefully we can catch something I really.
Champion/You should be able to catch all of them.
O 'Donnell/What' s that?
Champion/The polls don't close till 9:00 do they?
O'Donnell/Your dreaming, we don't start until 7:00.
Lehman/All right.
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Vanderhoef/I would like to know if anyone else (can't hear).
man/(can't hear).
Lehman/No.
O'Donnell/The other way.
Vanderhoef/Across the hall the other way. The radio station, are we going to have a
presentation?
Atkins/I'm sorry Dee I.
Lehman/(can't hear) radio.
Vanderhoef/The radio station and I have a few questions about how this may go together,
what kind of matching funds, who' s paying for it, what' s the city' s role in it, why
are we only able to cover 90 percent? Will it go into the county, any of those kind
of things?
Helling/We can set something up, I think have Drew come in and make a presentation,
the 100 watts is the maximum for these low powered stations the FCC is willing to
license. The critical thing here is that what we're doing is exploring now, there' s a
deadline for applying but there's no commitment based on that application it will
go through. But I think if your interested yea we can have him come in and.
Vanderhoef/If anybody else would like to hear, I would like to hear just a little bit more
about it and you know I'm fine with them going ahead and making the application
that' s, look at that a little bit later. Then I would also like to talk a little bit at
some point in time about how we might better utilize the use of our Senior Center
and specifically what I'm thinking in terms of and the meeting rooms and how we
can secure that building so that we can have other doors open more often to allow
meetings to be scheduled in there and be of use. If anybody else is interested in
something like that I'd like to take a look at it.
Pfab/I would definitely, better use city property.
Lehman/OK.
Kanner/I've got some things, one and I lost from when the meeting was, maybe Marian
can help me. From, when we had the presentation on the parking ramp, the multi-
modal center, it was quoted as saying there was 500 spaces and my understanding
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is with the alternative bid it would be 540 so I just want to clarify ifthat's correct
if that understanding is correct.
Atkins/Between 500 to 540, that I can tell you, I'll find out for you.
Kanner/Yea I saw the number 540 so the number 500 is being thrown around and so I
don't think it was the minutes were wrong per say because I think that's, but there
was a misunderstanding about what that figure is.
Atkins/I think it had something to do remember with the design particularly that lower
level, or building with protrude would take up certain spaces, I'll do my best to
find it.
Karr/Wasn't it too the alternate building, the 5th floor created 540.
Lehman/Yea.
Atkins/I'll make the call tomorrow Steve and (can't hear).
Kanner/Yea because I think the understanding was the alternate bidding with the fifth
floor only brought it to 500 so I just want to figure out the correct one. Okay.
Atkins/Okay I'll find that out.
Kanner/And along those lines ofifit's not to late I wanted to offer the idea of having
some sort of lockers for bike, that' s a big thing that really promotes bike
commuting to have lockers where you can put your bike in, a number of cities
have that and I know that.
Champion/Where do they have them at Steven in the parking ramps?
Kanner/In the ramps we're having spaces for bikes but I think we should go further and
talk about bike lockers, a number of cities around the country and it's a good way
to promote bicycle commuting.
Champion/Do we have a big (can't hear) I mean isn't that the reason you would do it?
Kanner/Well people that commute like to have that security and in Ann Arbor for instance
they rent out bike lockers for a certain amount of time and so it's yours for that
time and then you can use it as you see fit.
Champion/It's a good idea.
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Kanner/You can leave it for a few days or whatever, drive home or take a bus home or
interchange that.
Atkins/I'll ask that question.
Kanner/And I wanted to announce an event that I think most people got notice ofthere's
going to be a student forum on alcohol laws.
Champion/I think we all got that.
Kanner/And I've been in contact with those folks and the students for local politics and
Andy Stoll from USIG and council have invited, I'm going to be there I hope other
folks will come and we're going to go into the place where people are at to talk
about the issues and hear what people have to say. I had a question for Eleanor.
Atkins/Steven before we go into that, does someone have a copy of that, Dale and I
didn't see it.
Lehman/Yea I've got a copy of it, the problem is if we have over three council people
there's an illegal meeting.
Kanner/That's what I wanted to clarify.
(can't hear).
Lehman/There I gave a copy to Steve.
Wilburn/Don't you and Dee have United Way hearings that night? Remember the 15th
Wednesday the Wednesday before Thanksgiving.
Kanner/No I think it's Tuesday or something.
Vanderhoef/Well.
Wilburn/The United Way hearings are on Wednesdays.
Kanner/No it's this Wednesday the 8th.
Champion/(can't hear).
Wilburn/I've got Wednesday November 15th on the letter I got.
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Kanner/What' s that? No but the initial meeting they said we're having a meeting the
orientation meeting is on the 8th.
Wilburn/No but the actual budget presentations start the Wednesday before
Thanksgiving.
Vanderhoef/We don't have those dates, I've not received anything.
Kanner/I haven't received anything.
Wilburn/Oh really.
Vanderhoef/No.
Wilburn/Because I know I'm up the Wednesday after Thanksgiving, I'm up the
Wednesday after Thanksgiving (can't hear).
Karr/Dee I think we haven't got the schedule yet, I think you'll get it at orientation, so
they haven't had it, we haven't got it.
Wilburn/Yea the orientation is this Wednesday, I'm, well keep it clean.
Kanner/Well in any case I made a commitment to go on the 15th, I did not have any dates
or any knowledge and so someone maybe can substitute for me on that time, I'm
still interested in participating in the United Way but I made this commitment.
Wilburn/I'm just raising it for your awareness I mean you might want to check with
Linda Severson.
Karr/I'll check that out tomorrow.
Vanderhoef/Find out because.
Kanner/Yea it would have been nice to know in advance that it was already planned out.
Lehman/Who are the council liaison with the University?
Karr/Ross and Connie.
Wilburn/And I have a board meeting and I was going to go observe after the board
meeting, not this I was going to go observe the United Way hearings, this is my
first.
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Lehman/So this isn't something you'd go to anyway?
Wilburn/No I'll be at a board meeting at that time.
Champion/(can't hear).
Lehman/You will go to the alcohol but I think it's important.
Dilkes/You do have a meetings issue here so.
Lehman/There can not be more than three council people go.
Dilkes/Three of you go.
Pfab/Is there, I would be the third one if it's okay, if not.
Lehman/That' s okay I think from a procedural standpoint, the meeting has very little
value.
Pfab/Right but I'm not going to fight anybody, to arm wrestle anybody to take their
place.
Lehman/But you know and I'm sure when we get to the point when we have issues to
discuss we will schedule a meeting where we can have something to talk about
when we get Eleanor her report back after the first of the year. So it's an
opportunity for the kids to vent that' s fine.
Pfab/I'd like to make a comment, it's kind of related to this, how many of you had a
chance the videotape that (can't hear) that' s down in your office that Stepping Out
put out?
Lehman/I haven't seen it.
Pfab/I would encourage you to see it, it's a two hour tape but it' s, I think it's quite
enlightening.
Lehman/OK.
Vanderhoef/But I would request that a letter be sent back to the student government to
let them know that this would be only three and our conflict with having more than
that there.
O'Donnell/So our three are Connie, Dee and Irvin.
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Lehman/No she' s not going, Steven, Connie and Irvin.
O'Donnell/Steven, Connie and Irvin.
Kanner/And again it's more than just for Council it's a way to discuss these issues
without necessarily the Council as a focus but to come together as a community.
Champion/The other thing I have to bring up to you Steven if you're going to be a
Council representative for our allocation of United Way, not United Way funds
but what do we call those?
Lehman/CDBG.
Atkins/CDBG.
Vanderhoef/A to (can't hear).
Champion/Because you've not done it before I have real problems with your not going to
that first meeting.
Kanner/No I am going to the first meeting, Connie we were given a letter saying that
there's a meeting on the 8th.
Champion/But you're not going to the first evening the presentation.
Kanner/I'm going to the 8th, we were not, we have not been told anything, this is the first
that we've heard from Ross that there's other meetings, we have not, I and I don't
think Dee either has received any notice that there are other meetings so this is the
first that we're hearing all this and I don't think it's fair to attack me Connie when.
Champion/I'm not attacking you I said I disapprove of your not going since it's the first
time you've done it, you're not familiar with these presentations that you're not
going to be there, I do have a problem, I'm just telling you I have problems with it.
Kanner/So you expect that ifI have no knowledge of it that I'm suppose to drop
commitments that I make, I can't operate that way, if I make a commitment
Connie I have to stick with it.
Champion/Well I guess you have to decide what your commitments are going to be.
(A few talking, can't hear)
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Wilburn/Well I don't know what, I don't know how Council has handled those
presentations in the past but I mean the presentations are the agency directors
laying out our case in front of the.
Champion/Right.
Lehman/It's the only way you can make a decision is (can't hear).
Wilburn/All the agency don't go on, I mean that' s for you to decide but I'm just letting
you know that that's where.
O'Donnell/It's an hour and a half and Connie and I were the representatives last year and
I thought we, Dee have you been on it before?
Vanderhoef/No and that's why I.
O'Donnell/See and I thought it was going to be our practice to always put one old and
one new on there to kind of show the ropes because I was really glad Connie had
been there the year previous so.
Kanner/I feel pretty comfortable doing it, I'm going to go to my commitment on the 15th
Connie and I think you are questioning my commitment to it and I.
Champion/No I'm not questioning your commitment to it.
Kanner/I think we can work around it, I think to hold me to something where it's a week
later and I had no knowledge of it and other people do not have any knowledge of
it besides Ross Wilburn I think that' s a little to much to ask for someone to drop
commitments that they make.
Lehman/I think though what they're saying Steven is I think it's going to be very difficult
for you to be able to make a decision on the presentations when you didn't hear
them and there' s going to be.
Wilburn/Well I mean you can do.
Lehman/An hour and a half, you will not have heard the presentations.
Wilburn/I mean you can double, I mean you can double check with Linda to make sure
that' s when they start but I know that I'm the Wednesday after Thanksgiving and I
thought they were starting the Wednesday before Thanksgiving so I mean that' s up
for you all to decide whether or not one or both of you should be there but if no
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one is there from the city no one will hear the four or five agencies that present
that night.
Vanderhoef/I will be there.
Lehman/She will be there, okay. Other council time.
Kanner/I have one other thing, this is to Steve and the council, I went by the elevator
vault in front of one of the businesses downtown and the doors were open and.
Atkins/Sidewalk out of.
Kanner/Out of the sidewalk and I noticed that there was a chain on one end where there
was a big drop and it was broken off and to me that seemed very dangerous. I
went into the business and said could you put something up there and they really
didn't do anything and I think that we don't have zoning, or laws of some sort we
need to make sure those things are blocked off because I remember a year or two
ago the blind person going into that construction hole and this is harder to get into
but it's still quite a drop and it's just a sheer drop off from the side and I'd like to
know what will be done about that.
Champion/If mine' s going to be open I stand out there.
Lehman/I think there's a, there's certainly a liability issue, the property owners liable.
Dilkes/Well there is a provision in the code which prevents or prohibits openings in the
right of way. I think it's always been, I don't think it's ever been enforced when
there' s been somebody there watching. Or somebody constantly observing as
they're moving stuff in and out. So I think it really depends on what you all want
to, if you're interested in doing some other kind of regulation.
O'Donnell/So there is an ordinance but it just wasn't enforced there it was not adhered to
in this case.
Vanderhoef/This was faulty equipment.
(All talking)
Dilkes/Well I don't know it sounds like they were moving, were they moving stuff in and
out?
Kanner/It was a beer delivery and when I went by there was no one there and I went in
and there was really no response from the management of coming out to watch it.
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Lehman/It was unattended in other words.
Kanner/I called the police and I assume the police came by at a later time.
Lehman/That' s really not very bright on the part of the business because if somebody falls
in there they're liable as all get out. OK.
Dilkes/Although it is in our right of way.
Lehman/All right.
Pfab/I defer to the game whatever.
Lehman/One, Steve how are we coming for the signs for the ped mall? To say you can't
ride bicycles that we were going to do a month ago?
Atkins/Oh I think they're being fabricated as we speak, I talked to them last week.
Lehman/I think you told us that the last time we met.
Atkins/No, no, we contacted a couple other towns to see what they did and quite frankly
we were happy with what they did so we made our own.
Karr/Ernie.
Vanderhoef/What about the telephones and newspapers?
Atkins/Telephones and newspapers.
(All talking)
Karr/Ernie did you want to talk about the scheduling with the state on immigrants?
Lehman/Oh the letter was in there. We got a phone call back from Governor Vilsack's
office regarding a letter that I sent to him, he had made some comment about
importing people into the State of Iowa to enhance the workforce and there' s a lot
of questions I think regarding that, social questions and just exactly what he had in
mind. I got a call back from his office last Thursday I believe and I guess I'm
interested in what sort, how you'd like to handle that? I think we should meet
with someone from the Governor' s office, let them explain to us at least what their
proposal or what he's thinking, now I do not know that there's been any proposal
put together in any kind of concrete form so we may be at a stage where he's
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formulating some sort of policy. I think before, or sometime in this process we
need to meet with the person that' s in his office that' s working on this and have I
think the Council and perhaps some staff people maybe even some of the Council
people from surrounding communities because there are really social questions,
there are all kinds of things that could be affected by some sort of immigration
policy.
Pfab/Are you referring to basically that the offer that the city of Newton made that we
would like to say that we would like to be a center?
Vanderhoef/No.
Lehman/No, no, no, no.
Pfab/You don't want to be a center?
Vanderhoef/We don't know that.
Lehman/No, we don't know, we don't know what he's talking about.
Pfab/Okay all right because there was another time and there was some discussion and I
was thinking that was something that you were looking at and I don't think it's, I
think it's something to look at and I think your right to get more information is a
wonderful idea.
Lehman/Do you all concur we'd like to set it up at some point, it would probably be
during the day.
O'Donnell/Sounds wonderful.
Vanderhoef/Would it be appropriate to have that person come and talk to us at one of our
joint meetings with the?
Lehman/No I think this is something that should be devoted to that topic and that topic
alone.
Pfab/I think it's a good idea.
Vanderhoef/Well but I'm saying that group.
Lehman/We can ask that group in.
Dilkes/Can I tell you two quick things?
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Lehman/Yes.
Dilkes/Ames has passed or almost passed an ordinance prohibiting smoking in public
places, restaurant, no smoking restaurant thing, it's my understanding that the
Attorney General has been asked for a legal opinion on that and we should have
that, he's promised that in a couple weeks so that will be great for us to have that
before we do it. And then secondly we have a signed acceptance on our counter
offer on the library, the JC Penney building so.
Lehman/OK.
Pfab/What did you say Eleanor?
Dilkes/The purchase, the sign, we have signed acceptances on our counter offer for the
JC Penney building.
Adjourned 8:55 PM
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