HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-02-20 Transcription February 20, 2001 Special Work Session Page 1
February 20, 2001 Special Work Session 4:05 PM
Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn, Pfab, Kanner
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Schoon, Winkelhake, Schmadeke,
O'Malley, Mansfield, Fosse, Shera, Davidson, Grosvenor
TAPES: 00-17 SIDE TWO; 00-23 BOTH SIDES
Northside Marketolace
David Schoon/Brian Clark from Brian Clark Associates is here today to present to you
the Noahside Marketplace master streetscape plan. As we went through our
design process and we provided you with updates, we came up with a preferred
design during that process. While we were going through our design process the
City Council was going through your capital improvements programming and the
amount that we had initially planned for the project had been reduced from
$900,000 to $500,000. You have in fiscal year 2003 $500,000 budgeted for this
project, so what we then needed to do is to step back and see how we could break
this project up into two phases, and that we could do one phase and have it
constructed and in the future could decide to do Phase II or not decide to do
Phase II.
Champion/But was it?
Schoon/Of right now my understanding is you have no dollars budgeted in the CIP for a
Phase II so in order to do a Phase II you would need to add that in your out year
list of items as something you may want to do in those out years but that' s my
understanding. So what we did is, we're going to present then a design we could
do in Phase I that we believe that if we did just it that would be sufficient or we
could just do it and then have a fairly complete streetscape project.
Champion/I'd like to just ask a question. I thought we just decided to do that in phases.
Lehman/We did, but we did not provide for the second phase, we have provided for the
first phase at least for the time being.
Champion/So in essence we did cut the budget.
Pfab/Could I, as long as we interrupted, can I ask one other thing? The more I was
thinking about that wouldn't it have been, I don't know how your going to divide
it and I'm going to jump ahead a little, but wouldn't it make sense to do the
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infrastructure for the whole thing and leave the amenities go because there might
be other ways of funding like the benches and some of those things.
Lehman/Well that' s what we're here to talk about.
Pfab/Okay, I got my shot.
Schoon/So let me turn it over to Brian.
Lehman/Okay.
Brian Clark/Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, thanks for having me today. An answer
to your question, we asked the neighbors that very same question and according to
the neighbors and business owners they wanted to proceed with kind of a
combination of infrastructure and amenities as part of that Phase I project so we
took options to the masses if you will, and the masses told us what they prefer for
their dollars. As David mentioned, the master plan addresses Linn, Market,
Bloomington and Gilbert from the diagram that you see. And addressing really
the concerns we heard from city, neighbors and businesses as far as safety, light
levels, amenities such as benches, trees, trash receptacles and pavement treatments
that provide a more safer if you will treatment, and aesthetically pleasing treatment
at the intersections of Market and Linn and Market and Gilbert. As we broke
down the phasing, or break it down to Phase I, this drawing illustrates a part of
that Phase I budget. The corridors of Market Street and Linn Street would receive
new lighting, new site furnishings, benches, trash receptacles. What we're calling
pavement bump outs at the intersection of Market and Linn Street provide a
shorter distance for pedestrians to run across the intersection for their, interrupted
by car traffic. And that really limits our Phase I project to that area, a Phase II
project then would include lighting on Bloomington, Gilbert and then fill in the rest
of that streetscape project.
Pfab/So I think I understood you but I'm not sure, just for clarification, so you're saying
you will do the street work itself, pavement and the sidewalks in the first phase for
the whole thing?
Clark/No there' s not any sidewalk pavement, or street work pavement as part of Phase I,
the only street pavement adjustment would be in this intersection here providing
additional pavement out to the drive lanes to give the pedestrians some what of a
running start to cross that intersection.
Pfab/I just want the point (can't hear).
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Lehman/Now is there any portion of this that would have to, when we have to do Phase
II which I'm sure we will, is there any portion of this that has to be undone?
Clark/No.
Lehman/Okay so we're not talking about something that we're going to do twice.
Clark/Not doing things twice, we're not doing that.
Vanderhoef/Okay and how much added cost is it to working with contractors to do small
projects?
Clark/Your dealing with two different mobilizations, I'd say probably 10 percent of the
budget might be part of relocating construction and contractors twice.
Vanderhoef/In particular to have the contractors who are doing street work. Okay. I
have a question about the bump outs.
Clark/Sure.
Vanderhoef/Bump outs to me are traffic calming measures which we do not do on
arterials. Being very familiar with the paired one ways, I want to know how
narrow does it get with the bump out, how much space do you have for cars and
bicycles?
Clark/I don't have an exact dimension but I believe they are three lanes of traffic, is that
correct David or two lanes?
Schoon/What we're doing on the noah side of the street would be bringing out the
sidewalk and no farther than where the cars are already parked along the noah side
of the street.
Vanderhoef/That's on Jefferson.
Lehman/That' s Market.
Schoon/No on Market Street, on the noah side here, here, and here, we'll just be bringing
the sidewalk out the width of a parked car.
Clark/Roughly 6 feet.
Schoon/Which is where cars are already parked along this corridor so we're not
narrowing the travel lanes at all.
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Clark/We're protecting the automobiles that are parked there as well as shortening the
distance for pedestrian.
Vanderhoef/I thought you said in the plan though that you were taking those parked cars
off of the street.
Clark/On Market Street.
Vanderhoef/Yea, those in front of Gilpin' s.
Schoon/No.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Lehman/So that really just protects the parking space, we have concrete that jets out
equal to the area that would be occupied by a car parked adjacent to it.
Schoon/Correct.
Vanderhoef/And there' s no bump out on the south side of the street.
Clark/Correct.
Vanderhoef/And what about on Jefferson?
Schoon/On Jefferson as part of the Linn Street connector you would have the same sort
of thing, there would be a bump out that' s going to be about the same width as the
parked cars on the south side of the street. So again we're not.
Vanderhoef/On the south side.
Schoon/Narrowing the width of the traveling, correct, on the south side of the street, so
we're not narrowing travel lanes, we're just bringing out bump outs the width of
parked cars that are already occurring in those corridors.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
O'Donnell/(Can't hear) swing out.
Kanner/I have a question for you, a few things for you Brian and then David for you two.
I like overall what I see the (can't hear) the street trees, the curb outs, and the
bump outs look good, some concerns I had originally looking through it seem to
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have been answered, I just want to confirm that. There was some concern on my
part and then on people that were quoted in here about light pollution and it seems
that your dealing with that in directing the light down and (can't hear) minimal
light that will go up.
Clark/Correct these are, what we call sharp cut off fixtures where there will be no globe
hanging below the actual lens and the lens is directed downward.
Kanner/Other people beside myself that were quoted had a concern about the private
parking lots and I brought this up to you another time. Was there any concerted
effort to get those businesses with the large parking lots to see if we could put a
few trees in there and some benches and maybe we'll share the cost or they'll pay
most of the cost?
Clark/There was no interest by property owners to pay for any of the costs in those
parking lots, there was an effort to talk to them about what we could do but at this
time their parking lots were fine for them right now.
Kanner/So some of these owners are Pagliai's I guess, they want the improvements in
general but they don't want us to touch their private parking lot even if we would
pay for it and put a tree in there.
Clark/That' s a different, we didn't approach them with the city paying for their
improvements on their parking lot, we did not go to them with that scenario.
Kanner/Would that fit into the schematics that we're talking about here, something,
because I could imagine it would be a lot nicer if there was something that would
break up the big parking lot.
Clark/I think whenever it's possible, it's always nice to have islands of street trees and
large parking bays but since we talked to them early on in the process and it was
dismissed relatively quickly we did not pursue it in this context of the streetscape.
Kanner/What would it cost if we paid for one because we've got that expanse from the
municipal parking lot going all the way over to the other side on Bloomington
from Market to Bloomington goes into Pagliai' s I think which is just one big block
which I think is not such a great thing to have.
Schoon/What your asking for was beyond the scope of work that the city requested of
Brian Clark and Associates, we did not ask for them to develop plans for
improvements on private property. The scope of work was really focused on the
street right of ways and so, discussions that may have occurred with property
owners that was only in terms of seeing if they had an interest in doing something
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with their project. We never asked Brian Clark and Associates to address that
from a city redevelopment issue, so I think it would be hard for Brian to address
any of those issues. I'm just saying he wasn't asked to do that.
Kanner/But it seems that it's something that from Brian's point of view and urban
planning point of view it makes sense to do something with those large expanses
and maybe that' s something we can think about if it's relatively inexpensive to add
something, even something small would add a lot to that parking lot.
Champion/We ordinarily.
Lehman/This is really a separate issue that we'd have to deal with because if we start
improving private parking lots in this area of town we're going to be asked to do
the same thing everywhere and this discussion is relative to the street
improvements and if we want to address parking lots at some point then I'm sure
we can do that but that' s not part of this plan.
Kanner/Well then let me, then David stay up here, in general I was wondering were the
businesses asked if they would be willing to kick in for the general street
improvements and what' s the state of business there, is business suffering? It
seems to be that I've seen the same stores there for quite a while, they seem to be
doing pretty well. Is there a dire sense that we have to do something or it's going
to fall apart there?
Schoon/You know I think as throughout the community there' s been an impact on the
retail and service sector of the economy given the addition of additional retail and
service sector space in the community. I haven't gotten a sense from them that
they're in dire straits in terms of closing and a lot of comments have been that
there' s been consistency in this neighborhood in terms of business owners in this
neighborhood over time. No this was always presented as a project that the city
was looking to invest in, something initially brought, that was part of our
discussion an interest on the private parking owner' s behalf was bearing the above
ground utilities and when it became apparent to them that they themselves would
incur considerable expense to reconnect the buried utility electrical, the electrical
utility to their building which would be their expense that that cost started to
become prohibited to do something like that. So no they were not asked to
financially contribute to this project.
Kanner/Do we have I think where we assess businesses or property owners for
improvements that are made to the public right of way?
Schoon/We've used, when we reconstructed Maiden Lane we established a special
assessment for those properties and ifthat's something the Council wishes us to
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pursue, at this point it's been presented as a project that the city was going to
invest in the public right of way in the Noahside Marketplace area.
Kanner/It's something I'd like to pursue, perhaps a percentage.
Lehman/Well the only problem with that Steve and you look at what we've done
downtown and everywhere else I think your going to have a really difficult time
asking these folks to help pay for street improvements when we've made street
improvements all over the community at no charge to the adjacent property
owners. Now that would definitely be a change in policy on the part of the
Council and it's certainly something we could talk about but at no time during the
discussion of this project, or as far as that goes the downtown streetscape has
there ever been any discussion of cost sharing by adjacent property owners.
Kanner/Well I like what I see here and I see the need to keep ahead of things in that
sense. I also see though it seems to be in pretty good shape the area, not only
business wise but the infrastructure that' s there, it seems a very comfortable place
now, I like to hang out there.
Lehman/Well and that' s the question, we're here to see what we have budgeted or at least
tentatively, the first half of this project, if the Council feels that that' s a good
enough area and it's all right the way it is we certainly don't have to leave it in the
CIP.
Kanner/I'm just trying to see if there' s options, I lean towards doing it, so it's easy to
spend that money, that $500,000.
Lehman/I hear you but I really think that any discussion of sharing cost with property
owners at this point in time is not appropriate because that' s never been part of the
discussion and we're kind of reaching the point where we're going to decide in the
next four or five hours on a budget that has a capital improvements program that
includes this. We've given the go ahead to design it, we felt it was important to
do, I don't think we can change the rules at this point.
Kanner/I have one other thing I think that this set of questions. I'm a little
uncomfortable with the display board which are known as the $50,000 kiosk
downtown and they look similar. And is that the plan to put in these $50,000
kiosks again?
Schoon/No the display boards are much more simple, Brian Clark and Associates have
looked at, they're not custom designed display boards, they're basically more two-
dimensional display boards and they've looked at talking with suppliers in terms of
each of those elements are already something that somebody' s producing and then
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it's combining those elements to make it versus having a custom made kiosk or
display or a posting pillar like we have downtown so the cost should be
considerably less than what our posting pillars, I mean our posting pillars and our
kiosks are downtown.
Kanner/Right so there's posting pillars and display boards.
Schoon/A display board.
Kanner/Which maybe also could be known as a kiosk. What are the approximate costs of
those two different things and are they going to look similar to the ones that are in
the central business district?
Schoon/No they will look different than what's, you have a copy of what they'll look like
in the plan.
Kanner/A drawing I think and it looked somewhat similar to me.
Schoon/I didn't bring my file, I recall the display board is going to cost about $12,000
and a posting pillar was going to cost around $7,000.
Vanderhoef/I have concerns about posting pillars which I had for the downtown and I
noticed in some of the comments from the folks who inhabit the noah
neighborhood that they're concerned about all of the illegal postings that are
happening on the posts. I haven't seen a decrease in those in downtown, I think
there' s a habit and this is not your problem or your concern but what I would ask
of the business owners is to be responsible for the telephone poles and light utility
poles that are out in front of their business to clean them off. I mean every time
one goes up pull it off, just daily wipe them out, then the posting pillars make
sense to me, if we don't have a commit from our citizens to remove the things off
of all the poles there it will never be worthwhile. People won't get in the habit of
using posting pillars.
Kanner/It's on page 31 of our packet if anyone wants to see it. I like the idea of the
posting pillars, one thing that I noticed as someone who posts flyers on some of
these things that the ones downtown are about 1 ~A flyers width and if they were
two that would be better I think.
Vanderhoef/The design of them.
Kanner/What?
Vanderhoef/The design of the pillars.
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Kanner/The design of the pillars so you could have two flyers side by side.
Vanderhoef/8 ~A x 11 sheets of paper which is what they typically post.
Champion/But they don't have to, they can be off to the side, they don't have to be
totally against the posting pillars.
Vanderhoef/Well they look better if they're on the posting pillar.
Schoon/So we can look at the width of the posting pillars.
Champion/I don't know I can have the term of posting pillars (can't hear).
Kanner/In my mind something simpler the better for both of these that, I don't think we
need anything ornate or expense, the less expensive the better, I don't know how
other folks feel.
Vanderhoef/I don't think your wrong.
Wilburn/It' s just you want them to be durable and you want them to have enough space
for things to be posted on them.
Lehman/Well and they should fit into the character of what we're doing, I mean I agree
they don't need to be as 52,000 kiosks, but at the same time they don't want to be
a sheet of plywood either. Other questions or comments? Now just to be clear
David would you show us on the map the area that we're talking about doing if we
do as we have expressed an interest in doing the firth phase of this would include
which area?
Schoon/It would include Market Street from Gilbert to Dubuque Street and Linn Street
from Jefferson to Bloomington Street.
Lehman/That is the half that we're talking about doing now?
Schoon/Correct.
Lehman/Okay.
Schoon/And it doesn't include any of the pavement work.
Lehman/Right.
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Schoon/At the intersections other than those bump outs on the noah side of Market
Street.
Lehman/But pretty much the amenities the trees, the benches, the lights, this sort of thing.
Schoon/Correct.
Vanderhoef/Would it be, would you check on the cost of doing the bump outs now
versus waiting and doing them with the contract that does the paving work?
Schoon/Okay I just wanted.
Vanderhoef/That's the one thing that appears to me that might make a big difference in
our total cost.
Schoon/Sure, what was expressed and I'm just repeating what was expressed by those in
attendance at our meetings that they felt that was an important feature and not
knowing for certain when and if the Council was going to do Phase II that an
important safety feature to them was do the bump outs because they perceive
crossing Market Street is not very, less than desirable for pedestrians.
Lehman/How many bump outs are we talking about?
Champion/Two.
Vanderhoef/Two.
Lehman/I can't imagine Dee that that' s going to be amount to much money.
Vanderhoef/Well because it's such a small job.
Lehman/But it's part of the project.
Vanderhoef/Yea it's just it's such a small project, small piece of doing road work which
involves that road work around there that.
Lehman/That's basically sidewalk, the bump out. Isn't it?
Schoon/Curb and there' s some curb sewer work that will have to occur.
Lehman/Sewer work, yea probably storm sewer. Well it would be nice to know what the
cost.
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Vanderhoef/The storm sewer work will be done with the street.
Schoon/So when we go into the design phase we'll take a look at that.
Vanderhoef/Yea.
Kanner/ You' re doing the trees in this Phase I right?
Schoon/Correct, just on Linn and Market.
Kanner/Just on Linn and Market, and how many old ones are you replacing, just a ball
park figure?
Schoon/At least a dozen, the City Forester has gone out and identified those that have
been damaged over time that should be replaced.
Lehman/Okay other questions.
O'Donnell/Very nice.
Lehman/Thank you.
Schoon/So then our plan as staff is to start working.
Lehman/Proceed.
Schoon/The construction documents into our work program and this is what we will base
it on.
Champion/Right.
Vanderhoef/Go for it.
Lehman/We're in agreement. Thank you. Zoning items.
Plannin~ and Zonin~ Items
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ITEM NO. 7A. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR
MARCH 5 ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE ZONING CODE,
SECTION 14-61-1Q TO ALLOW ADULT DAY CARE IN COMMERCIAL
ZONES ON STREETS LESS THAN 28 FEET IN WIDTH.
Franklin/Just a few, not very much at all. The first is setting a public hearing for March 5
on an amendment regarding adult day care and the width of street they need to be
on in commercial zones.
ITEM NO. 7B. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE USE
DESIGNATION FROM INTERIM DEVELOPMENT MULTI-FAMILY
RESIDENTIAL (ID-RM) TO COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL (CC-2) FOR
APPROXIMATELY 2 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF
GILBERT STREET AND SOUTH OF NAPOLEON LANE (REZ00-0021).
(PASS AND ADOPT).
Franklin/The second is pass and adopt on the rezoning of the Olin Lloyd property.
Vanderhoef/Karin excuse me, can I stop you?
Franklin/You may.
Vanderhoef/The adult day care and the width of the street.
Franklin/Yea.
Vanderhoef/Would this be consistent with child care also?
Franklin/Yes, the child care restrictions are in the residential zones.
Vanderhoef/But would they be the same?
Franklin/Yes.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Franklin/And what this does basically is it gets these restrictions off the adult day care and
commercial zones where it really doesn't matter anyway. It never has been a
concern in commercial zones in terms of the amount oftraftic, the concern related
to the residential zones and I think what happened was when we made the change
we just did it too broadly when we adopted adult day care as a use a few years
ago.
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Vanderhoef/Okay so we don't have any restriction in the residential on how wide the
street must be in front of a home that does day care?
Franklin/In the, no we do, in residential for child care or adult day care or churches we
have restrictions on how wide streets need to be in those residential zones.
Vanderhoef/For safety?
Franklin/Right and we did not feel that for adult day care and commercial zones you
needed to have that same restriction.
Vanderhoef/Why?
Lehman/Well this will be at the top of the public hearing.
Franklin/Because of the concern about traffic that you have in the residential zones is not
a concern that you have in the commercial zones and this is just setting the public
hearing.
ITEM NO. 7C. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A REVISED SENSITIVE
AREAS DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THE PENINSULA NEIGHBORHOOD,
AN 82.1 ACRE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD CONTAINING UP TO 410
DWELLING UNITS LOCATED AT THE WEST END OF FOSTER ROAD
(REZ00-0022) (PASS AND ADOPT)
Franklin/Item C is pass and adopt for the zoning for the Peninsula.
ITEM NO. 7D. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY
PLAT OF THE PENINSULA NEIGHBORHOOD, AN 82.1 ACRES, 209-LOT
SUBDIVISION WITH 15 OUTLOTS LOCATED AT THE WEST END OF
FOSTER ROAD. (SUB00-0026)
Franklin/Item D is the preliminary plat for the Peninsula and those things we've gone over
many times before so I won't repeat them.
Lehman/Right.
ITEM NO. 7E. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 14-6J-1 THE
OFF-STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS, TO REQUIRE ONLY ONE OFF
STREET PARKING SPACE FOR SMALL ONE-BEDROOM SINGLE-
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FAMILY, TOWNHOUSE, AND DUPLEX DWELLINGS. (PASS AND
ADOPT)
Franklin/Item E is pass and adopt for the parking space for the one bedroom small
housing units.
ITEM NO. 7F. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING A FINAL PLAT OF
WESTCOTT HEIGHTS PART THREE-A, A 78.96 ACRE, 47-LOT
RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED IN JOHNSON COUNTY ON THE
WEST SIDE OF PRAIRIE DU CHIEN ROAD, SOUTH OF NEWPORT ROAD.
Franklin/Item F should be deferred.
Lehman/Do you have a date?
Franklin/Next meeting.
Karr/March 5.
Lehman/March 5, okay.
ITEM 7G. CONSIDER A LETTER TO THE JOHNSON COUNTY BOARD OF
SUPERVISORS INDICATING THAT THE CITY HAS NO OBJECTION TO
THE REQUEST SUBMITTED BY JEBB LC TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY
1.76 ACRES LOCATED EAST OF DANE ROAD AND WEST OF LAKE
RIDGE MOBILE HOME PARK FROM COUNTY 1A, RURAL AND COUNTY
RS, SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL, TO COUNTY RMH, MANUFACTURED
HOUSING RESIDENTIAL.
Franklin/And Item G is a rezoning to RMH that is requested by the Wolfs four acreage
mobile home park. Basically this is a correction to a legal description to just kind
of square out what the existing Lake Ridge Park, where the existing Lake Ridge
Park is.
Lehman/Okay.
Franklin/And we're recommending approval, that' s all I have.
Lehman/Karin before you go have you seen the letter that we received this afternoon?
Franklin/I just received it at 10 of four, yes I have read it.
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Lehman/Okay would you, tonight when we, I'm assuming this person may very well be
here tonight to address this and we would, I would like a response.
Franklin/I will be prepared to respond.
Lehman/Okay thank you.
Kanner/Ernie what's this letter?
Lehman/Well we're going, tonight it's going to presented to us during the meeting but I'd
like, we'll have an opportunity to read it between now and then so I would like
Karin to be able to respond to it I don't like surprises and this is a surprise. I
haven't read the letter but it's referring to something that is coming up tonight and
I just want to make sure someone is here to address it.
Franklin/I'll be here.
Lehman/Thank you.
Parkim~ in front of Mailboxes - (1P2 of2/15 info. packet)
Jeff Davidson/Hello, here this afternoon to see if majority of the City Council is in favor
of having staff prepare an ordinance to make it illegal to park in front of a mailbox,
a curbside mailbox, there is no existing ordinance. With all the snow for the last
couple of months, it really has made really everything more difficult out on the
streets not just this. We have received a couple of complaints, not more than one
or two, the post office has indicated to us that they have received several
complaints. The anecdotal evidence that I have received there appears to be some
inconsistency among mail carriers, some of them will make the effort to step out of
the truck and deliver mail to a box that is blocked, others will not, apparently they
are not required to do so, that' s why it's within their regulations if they choose not
to deliver the mail at a box that is blocked. You have some information from
myself and Steve a couple of the things just outlined quickly, you know this is only
an issue in those neighborhoods that have curbside mailboxes which fortunately are
not predominately the neighborhoods that have a lot of on street parking but there
are certainly instances where we have had boxes blocked and people have not
received their mail. The post office has formally asked us to consider an ordinance
making it illegal to park in front of a curb side mail box. Typically people place
their mail boxes adjacent to their driveways and because it is illegal to park in front
of a driveway there is a mechanism there to enforce a mailbox that' s blocked when
someone is also blocking the driveway but not otherwise. You know the issue is
not so much to simply passing that' s fairly easy but enforcing it and letting people
know that there is such an ordinance, I mean that' s really a larger issue. The post
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office has indicated they would assist us in doing this by putting leaflets on cars
and that sort of thing. You also have the letter to a Mrs. Trummel on Hickory
Trail from Steve and I think he outlines in there that another option to this is to
rather than enacting an ordinance is try and work with our neighborhood
associations in those neighborhoods that have curb side mailboxes and see if we
can get some information out there, you know the issue becomes, if it's a delivery
vehicle or someone from outside of the neighborhood you're not getting to that
person by just doing something through a neighborhood newsletter so what' s your
call on this? Irvin.
Pfab/I have a question what about neighborhoods where the associations aren't very
strong or active?
Davidson/Right that' s a good point Irvin, we do have neighborhoods out there and I think
probably you might have even characterized some of the newer neighborhoods
where they have curbside mailboxes as being one where there hasn't been a
burning issue that lead to the formation of a neighborhood association so we
would have to try and do some organizing in those.
Champion/Maybe the mailbox would become the burning issue.
Davidson/As I said Connie we've only receive one or two complaints, the post office
however has received more. Steven.
Kanner/So it appears that the problem might be there, let' s say their eight feet from the
driveway, they can solve that problem for the most part moving the mailbox
adjacent to the driveway and that would clear up most problems that they might
have.
Davidson/Right or course that' s a big deal for a lot of people to actually have to move the
post that their mailbox is on some of them I know in some neighborhoods where
there are duplexes you actually have a post with two mailbox on it so your
affecting more than one residence, that is certainly an option for someone to put it
directly adjacent to their driveway if it's not currently.
Vanderhoef/But it's also a problem when you live on a corner and your driveway comes
off of the side street and your mailbox address goes to the one in front.
Davidson/Right and there may possibly be areas, I'm not certain, but there could possibly
be an area where you had driveway access off of an alley which means that it's not
possible to put your mailbox in front to your house and have it adjacent to your
driveway.
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Champion/I think we have trouble enforcing then parking zones we have now and I really
can't support an ordinance to cover this, I think it's a minor problem that can be
dealt with at the neighborhood level.
Wilburn/I'm wondering if the first step if we could open up the possibility of the post,
postal department preparing a pamphlet that could be distributed through utility
bills saying it's their policy that their mail may not be delivered if it's blocked and
trying to do that with along with Marcia' s department as a first step.
Lehman/Isn't this also a problem that kind of rears it's head only when we have a lot of
snow that stays on the ground for a long time?
Davidson/I would say Ernie that the snow makes it more difficult.
Lehman/Right.
Davidson/But it's certainly possible and in fact we've had instances of people calling and
complaining about blocked mailboxes during.
Lehman/Summer.
Davidson/Yea it tends to be neighborhoods where there are duplexes and townhouses
that we have a lot of on street parking. And those are the neighborhoods where
we have a lot of on street parking and people are really trying to cram in there in
some relatively small spaces that I think the problem is most significant.
Vanderhoef/Part of the snow problem according to my mail man was the fact that their
insurance does not follow them when they get outside of their vehicle so if there's
piled up snow and they're trying to get up to the mailbox that this is a problem that
if they slip and fall then they're not covered.
Davidson/Yea the person at the post office that I spoke with I asked that specifically, I
said I have people tell me that their particular mail carrier will get out of the truck
and deliver it by hand to the box and the postal person that I talked to said they are
not required to do that that individual is doing that on his or her own and not
behalf it' s required. Irvin.
Pfab/I think I would be in favor doing something to protect the right for people to get the
mail, I think it's very important. I, get my mail delivered to the mailbox, a lot of us
get it developed to the door, but for those people to have to go out and get that
mail, they can't stand there and wait, a lot of them are at work, I think that' s a
very injustice to those people and I would support whatever it takes that if you
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have to keep taking then until they run out of tickets, I think that' s a right that
these people have to get their mail.
Kanner/What about that postal carrier creed all through rain or snow or fire.
Pfab/The rain is as long as you don't have to get out of vehicle.
(All talking, can't hear).
Lehman/Is there an interest on the part of, I personally think this is a problem that we
don't need to get into. But are there four people who are interested in an
ordinance that would prohibit parking in front of mailboxes?
Pfab/Is you don't get your mail for two or three days because somebody' s there and your
away at work and you can't get it and it's caught in the postal system and you
don't have a way to get down to the post office because your at work, I think this
is an extremely serious thing.
Lehman/This has not been a big problem.
Pfab/Well then it shouldn't be hard to solve it.
Lehman/Well if it hasn't been a big problem, I hate to see us pass an ordinance that
affects everybody that' s got a mailbox if it hasn't been a problem.
Pfab/Well could we maybe have a public hearing and see if and let the people decide to
come forth, the ones that are quite, that' s fine, if nobody comes forth I guess but
give them a chance to speak up.
Lehman/Well, is there interest in such an ordinance?
Vanderhoef/No but I like Ross idea of making an announcement in the water bill, the
other thing that I think probably is possible is for the postal system also to put a
flyer in as they deliver mail to let residents know that they will not receive mail if
their box is blocked.
Pfab/But what do you do when the neighbors car is there and you can't get a hold of the
neighbor?
Vanderhoef/Well if everyone gets the message though in their mailbox then they'll know
that if they block somebody else' s mailbox that they are being inconsiderate of that
person.
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Pfab/They'll I think they'll (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/Right now some people don't think about it.
Pfab/I think that' s a serious right and I think that' s something that the citizen has the
mailbox there has a right to expect his mail to be able to delivered.
Champion/I do too Irvin but I think it's sometimes a pleasure sometimes to not get your
mail.
Lehman/Okay, all right.
Davidson/Mr. Mayor I heard three no's was there a fourth?
Lehman/Well I'd like to hear the yes's, how many want to pursue an ordinance that
would prohibit parking in front of mailboxes?
Pfab/I'll pursue it ifthere's no other way.
Lehman/All right we have one, is there anyone else?
Pfab/If there' s another way let' s work at that.
Lehman/I think that I would agree with.
Davidson/We'll work with the neighborhood groups and the post office and see if we can
get some progress that way.
Lehman/Ross your suggestion in the water bills, everybody gets a water bill.
Davidson/Okay, we'll work on the newsletter.
Pfab/Another thing is this something that you could maybe get back to us after 3 to 6
months see how it's going, one way or another.
Davidson/We can let you know if we've been getting a rash of, sure.
Pfab/So public if you've got a problem speak up.
Davidson/Yea and we'll try and get some information out there so people are aware of it.
Lehman/Thank you Jeff.
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Pfab/Thank you.
Lehman/First Avenue Steve.
First Avenue/Captain Irish - ( 1P3 of 2/15 info. packet), ( 1P4 of 2/15 info. packet),
(Consent Calendar #5d(2))
Steve Atkins/In your packet for your meeting tonight, you have three items that pertain
First Avenue/Captain Irish Parkway, one is a summary memo that I prepared for
you in which I'm going to be working from, secondary is an engineering
recommendation from the Department of Public Works concerning the project,
and thirdly there's a consent calendar resolution calling for a plans and spec
hearing so just keep those three items in mind as we talk about this. What I would
like to do is step through the memo I prepared for you point by point. What I've
attempted to do in this memorandum is I worked real hard trying to avoid
someone' s opinion, what the intent was, what the voters said, what he or she said,
what the newspapers said, what I heard, I tried to avoid all of that, I just want to
step through with what I believe are the major documents related to this issue
which ultimately lead and I will summarize what I believe your policy position to
be. As I think your aware there' s certainly enough confusion about this project,
I'm going to ask Marian to pass something out to you, it's not often that we get to
have fun at the newspapers expense but I'm going to hand something out to you
that I think helps speak a little to the confusion of this issue. What your being
handed are the headlines from our three major newspapers of Wednesday March 8,
following your basically your budget decision. The stories, I read all three of
them, were substantially the same, but the headline as you can see is dramatically
different, now your probably wondering what sick human being bothers to keep
these kinds of things.
Lehman/We know that.
Atkins/It was just one of theme obvious ones in all my career associated with, well what
the paper said.
Wilburn/You don't get out much do you?
Atkins/No I guess Ross. Hopefully when we're all done and this should only take a
couple of minutes is we can confirm your policy as we understand it and what
action you choose to take is certainly up to you. I found that this project has been
or been thought of in all sorts of ways, it's been delayed, it's been removed, it's
been included, it's been removed by it's parts, it's been proposed to be deleted and
it wasn't deleted. As it now stands I think there are three issues, financial
engineering and political. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on financial because
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I think you set the budget, the engineering recommendations we'll discuss and the
political question will certainly rest with you all decided what you want to do. I'm
going to the memo now, Point # 1, is the November 4th its the sample ballot of the
1997 referendum, the important points there is that the project was delayed in
accordance with the language used by the county auditory when his office
summarized this particular issue. The actual language I think is important to you,
where in that 1997 referendum it states the capital plan it would be removed from
the budget and instead included and that' s all in the same referendum. That
referendum was approved and is shown in Point #2, Point #3 First Avenue the
project was included in 02 as directed by that referendum. Another important
document and expression of your policies is the noaheast planning district and
there is a specific notation referencing First Avenue and the Captain Irish project
that they are to be completed simultaneously, I would take some issue with the
word completed, it's probably physically or practically impossible to pour the last
two bits of concrete or shovel the last spade of earth at the same time. That has
been interpreted a number of ways. Point 5 is from your March 7 Council meeting
where the council decided to split the project out into two pieces and those two
parts were grading and paving. The grading portion sent to one fiscal year, the
paving portion sent to another fiscal year, I believe that's clear from the record
what your decision was. There was another referendum in the November 7 the
year 2000 and this public measure was not summarized but states clearly that
grading and paving of First Avenue shall be deleted from your capital improvement
plan, the votes were cast and the question was defeated with the answer of no.
I've interpreted that I'm assuming so have you that it shall remain in the capital
plan. Point 7 is the capital plan, this is the financial commitment of the project, this
is often referred to for the purpose of scheduling, remember this is a budget, it's an
estimate of expenditures and revenues and it's a reflection of when money might
be needed to fulfill commitments on a capital project. Point 8 is a map of the area
just to give you some feel, and Point 9 this is what I've concluded I believe to be
your policy. That First Avenue will be graded in fiscal year 02, it's very important
that you remember fiscal year because that's the language that has been used
throughout. That means that this project can be graded sometime after July the 1 st
and before June 30th of next year. Water lines are to be installed after the grading,
I did not find any formal position but you clearly I believe expressed the intent that
installing the water lines after the grading would save us money because we simply
did not have to dig as deep. The problem with that is of course July 1 st is well
into the construction season and you will delay the water line as well as other
construction related to that grading, if it is grading that you choose to do or stay
by that policy. The third point is First Avenue will be paved in fiscal 03, that
means sometime after July 1 of 02 and conclude before June 30 of 03. And your
final I believe policy position is there is no through traffic on either First Avenue or
Captain Irish until both road projects are complete, simultaneous opening, those
are my words. Now the question that I believe you have to ask yourself is this at
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full and complete interpretation of what your policy position is at this moment.
And I believe it to be that' s what it is, now just so before you begin your
discussion, there is some problems with the policy as pointed out by Chuck and the
engineering recommendation, it is not an efficient use of the construction season,
it's not an efficient use of a contractors scheduling, I believe regardless of what
you decide to do that one or both of those roads will have to be barricaded at
some time. But it's at this time I depart from what I believe you voted on and
decided and head into intention, expectation, or basically the political questions
that you might have, that' s my summary.
Kanner/Steve and then the final three points, we've done Phase I of Captain Irish
Parkways as you said and the Captain Irish Parkway Phase II from the south
entrance of ACT property eastern property line of ACT is done this year?
Atkins/You have a resolution on for your consent calendar for your consideration and
that would be Phase II as outlined here for grading and paving and First Avenue.
You need to clarify what you want done with First Avenue, particularly the timing
issue, you can build into the construction documents virtually anything that you
would like but it's the understanding that your current policy position would not
permit us to grade and or thereby install those water lines until sometime after July
the 1st.
Pfab/That' s what I understand.
Lehman/Well I have a question for the Council, at least, my understanding of this issue
and I've been talking for it for 7 years is that the phasing of the project was to
ensure the fact that First Avenue would not be open for traffic until Scott
Boulevard be completed. Is that an accurate understanding from my part?
Vanderhoef/That is what is stated in the Northeast Plan.
Lehman/No I don't care about that, I'm just talking about all of the discussions that
we've had relative to which fiscal year something's going to get built or graded or
whatever, the only reason for those discussions was to ensure the fact that we
would not open First Avenue until Scott was built.
Champion/I think that's correct.
Vanderhoef/That was to follow what the wording was in the Northeast District Plan.
Lehman/I don't think that's the case, I mean that might be in the plan, but that's not the
discussion relative to which fiscal year it was put into, we didn't even reference the
Noaheast Plan.
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Vanderhoef/But that was the overriding piece.
Lehman/But it was never mentioned during our discussion ever.
Vanderhoef/Because that was already sitting there in the plan.
Lehman/Well I think it had been part of, if it had been an overriding element I'm sure we
would have discussed it.
O'Donnell/Well Ernie I think it, the plan itself was there and I think that influenced our
discussion and I think it's already been the understanding that they be open at the
same time.
Lehman/But the phasing was to ensure that we would not open First Avenue first.
Champion/We would have all that (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/No phasing was.
Lehman/We decided to move the grading into a separate year from the paving just to
ensure the fact that First Avenue would not be completed until after Scott was
done.
Champion/We, okay (can't hear).
Pfab/It only has to be opened, my understanding was there would be a season go by but
the opening of Scott Boulevard before First Avenue was open and the idea was to
train people, the rationale was that we'd train people to get in there and habits of
driving so they wouldn't come down First Avenue and override the capacity of
that and so that would be done a year later.
Vanderhoef/No.
Lehman/Well I know that First Avenue and Scott were, we wanted to consider them, or
at least I did, together because of the grading issue which involved moving of dirt
from First Avenue onto Scott Boulevard which would be expensive to separate the
two.
Champion/Plus the water lines had to go through.
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Lehman/Yea, the only concern that I have, and as far as I'm concerned I don't care when
we grade or pave, I only care that we do not open First Avenue until Scott is
completed and when we build them I don't care.
Vanderhoef/Well there' s an overriding issue for me still in that we have put the Dodge
Street reconstruction into the year 2003 which means the year 2002 it can happen
and if we're not finishing up Captain Irish with Phase III until that same year we
can end up with a very serious traffic problem on Dodge Street and so having First
Avenue built and paved so that if we have to have relief off of Dodge Street we
can do it.
Lehman/I think we deal with that if and when it comes up. The question right now I
believe if I'm not mistaken is do we want to let a contract for the grading and
paving of the first portion of Scott Boulevard which at one time we had hoped it
would be one project turns out to be two. Do we want to let that and First
Avenue at the same time in the interest of the economy because it's going to be
less expensive to do that and not open that section of First Avenue until Scott is
completed?
Pfab/I believe if you do that you develop a very strong breaking of the trust of the people
that will following how this was going to be, I think that is basically poking the
eye, the poke of the eye of the citizens of their understanding, that' s my thought.
And that' s my understanding, I may be wrong.
Lehman/Other discussion.
Pfab/I think it's just taking the understanding that the public finally submitted to and
saying but that we want more, we want it changed what our agreement was
because just to go back my understanding was you had the great compromise, you
came with it and you told Connie to get Connie's vote to keep that in the planning
you said to her we will delay the First Avenue until after Scott is done or
whatever.
Lehman/Right and that's exactly.
Pfab/And I think to do anything different is breaking the trust of the people that you work
with, I think it's extremely serious.
Lehman/Well the only question for me is when the street opens, as far as putting,
changing capital improvement projects, we change them all the time, the project
that we're doing right now, that we're completing on Mormon Trek and First
Avenue wasn't even in the capital improvement program three years ago and we're
completing it this year. The other end of Mormon Trek which is from Melrose to
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the railroad tracks wasn't in the CIP three years ago and we're going to be
building it this summer so moving things in the CIP for whatever reasons has never
been an unusual practice, to me the, the only, my only concern is we uphold the
public and I think they voted with the understanding that we would not open First
Avenue.
Pfab/That we would not pave.
Lehman/I don't think the paving, that' s a matter of me of economics, if it's going to cost
us an extra $3 or $400,000 to do it one way or another I can't justify that but I can
certainly justify not opening that street until the other one' s open.
Vanderhoef/And I can certainly can justify also starting at before July 1 of this year for
those reasons of economics, it doesn't make any sense not to get started with this
and try to get the best bid and get the best contract out there and get moving.
Kanner/Ernie.
Lehman/Steven.
Kanner/I think there was out there in the public this idea of the compromise that you
brought last year and that was voted on March 7 and that was part of the people' s
perception of what was going on and I think we ought to keep with that
agreement. One, a compromise to the compromise could be that if it's important
to start early in the calendar year which is I think what Chuck is putting out there
that we wait until next year for the whole thing for First Avenue. So I think we
could explore that idea what it means in terms of the water, pipes going in.
Lehman/It also impacts North Dodge Street though that's already scheduled for 2003.
Kanner/But First Avenue should be done in one summer construction.
Lehman/Yea but Scott Boulevard will not.
Vanderhoef/And the other thing in.
Kanner/But First will be open if we wait until next year, calendar year 02, First will be
done by the end of 02.
Vanderhoef/Chuck can correct me if I'm wrong on this but my understanding is we have
to have the dirt from the grading on First Avenue to continue to do Phase II of
Captain Irish therefore we have to do the grading and everything on First Avenue
this year to get that dirt to work on Phase II. Am I correct Chuck?
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Pfab/Can I respond to Dee?
Vanderhoef/Just a minute let me find out if I'm correct because that' s been my
understanding all along.
O'Donnell/I think you're right, that' s a substantial amount of money.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Lehman/Go ahead Chuck.
Chuck Schmadeke/The plan now is to use the dirt from First Avenue for that Phase II, we
could move ahead into Phase III and borrow dirt and bring it back to meet the
requirement for Phase II but then we'd have to take the dirt from First Avenue and
move it over into Phase II or Phase III and there's additional cost to do that.
Vanderhoef/Yea so we have to do First Avenue to get that dirt.
Pfab/So my, this is just to you question for you Chuck. I understand that this thing,
where the dirt was needed and where the cost was has been all over the board the
last couple of years, is that correct?
Vanderhoef/No.
Pfab/In other words at first we were going to need it, then we didn't need it.
Vanderhoef/No, we've always needed it.
Pfab/If anybody, is there a final decision made where the dirt is going to move and when
it's going to move?
Schmadeke/The plans that are to be placed on file for the public hearing on March 5 has
the dirt from First Avenue being incorporated into Phase II of Captain Irish.
Pfab/Which means what?
Schmadeke/We're taking the excess dirt from First Avenue.
Pfab/To what?
Schmadeke/Using it in the fill areas of Phase II of Captain Irish.
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Pfab/On Captain Irish, to take the dirt.
Lehman/Right.
Pfab/But that doesn't include the paving, the dirt is, I think the paving and as long as
you're going to put the water lines in you might as well pave it, I mean grade it not
pave it but the dirt is still available to go and I still think the agreement with the
public was that Scott Boulevard was going to be open, paved and open before
First Avenue was opened or paved.
Vanderhoef/No.
Pfab/And I think if we do that different and if we don't hear an awful ruckus out there in
amongst the citizens I'll certainly be surprised.
O'Donnell/You know we had the Noaheast District Plan in June of last year that said
we're going to complete the road simultaneously and I agree with Ernie on this, it
is a matter of economy, we are going to use dirt and move it from First Avenue to
Captain Irish for Phase II and it seems to me I remember to the tune of about
$220,000 and that's a substantial amount of money so I agree on this, it's time to
move on.
Wilburn/My understanding has been these four points that have been laid out here and I
you know the Northeast District Plan stuff that you guys voted on that before I
was on but I remember Steve Atkins trying to clarify with us about part of this
issue and I remember the comment let me get straight, both roads open
simultaneously. Now if that's, if we're going to stick with this, which I would like
to stick with this in which you're saying about both roads open simultaneously,
then I think there's also, I mean there's concern about change because, maybe you
can clarify for me Dee, I thought I heard you in concerns about Dodge Street
opening First Avenue as an option and that to me that' s counter to what we're just
saying here and I'm willing to stick to this without that you know.
Vanderhoef/My concern is that knowing how construction seasons can be wiped out and
how things happen on completing Phase III that Phase III will not get completed
until the end of that construction season meanwhile we will already be in the
construction season for Dodge Street but Dodge Street will be happening at the
same time as Phase III of Captain Irish and if we get into serious problems with
trying to control the traffic.
Wilburn/I have a question.
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Vanderhoef/We can do whatever we want at that point in time but certainly having the
paving on First Avenue is important.
Lehman/I guess I have a question for somebody on this one. I happen to share your
thoughts Ross on this, I really do, that we said we were not going to open that
street until Scott was completed and I think that is something that we have really
got to stick by. When we build it I don't care, when we open it I really care. If
there is a terrible construction season for the next two seasons it may be entirely
that North Dodge might have to be delayed a year if we can't route traffic.
Although North Dodge is never going to be closed, that' s not.
Vanderhoef/No it won't be closed.
Lehman/We have to maintain the street to be open so we would never have to use First
Avenue.
Atkins/Phase I of Captain Irish if you recall did go beyond it's construction season,
remember it rained.
Lehman/Oh yea it rained for two years.
Pfab/I have a question.
Atkins/I'm sorry raining for two years I was a little.
Pfab/Are you finished? I'm just waiting until you finish.
Atkins/Excuse me I apologize.
Pfab/Okay at this point, the more I watch, I look at Dodge Street I think there' s a lot of
questions there what is really going to happen there when it's over if public input
has anything to say there.
Lehman/Well that' s another question.
Pfab/Right, no but I mean, but anyway the point, I have a question for Ross. Okay I hear
what your saying let' s go with this, you tell me how your going to reconcile to
yourself and the people that are supporting you the compromise that was voted on
March 7 which Ernie brought up and we voted for. You can explain that how
you're going to reconcile those two then that' s fine that you can live with that, I
can't.
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Wilburn/It's your recollection that Scott Boulevard would be open first, I remember that
as part of the discussion before I do not remember that as part of the (can't hear).
Pfab/How do you explain the vote then? That it was going to not, that Scott Boulevard
was going to be done and then First Avenue, just go back to (can't hear).
Wilburn/Where do you see that in this document?
Pfab/Well there' s a record there, somebody has it, I don't have it.
Wilburn/Let me, here' s what I will say, these four points I will stick to, I will stick to
simultaneous opening of the road and I will respond to the people that voted for
me.
Pfab/That' s fine, that' s fine, I just remind you of that.
Wilburn/As you will.
Champion/Could I have a minute now?
Lehman/Yes Connie please.
Champion/I have always been for the delaying of First Avenue, I could not open that
street in good conscious without Scott Boulevard being done so I agree with you
on that because I do think you would absolutely prove people' s worst fears, I
mean I don't think trucks should be allowed on that part of First Avenue, or
whatever we decide to do as a traffic planner or whatever. But I have strong
feelings about not opening that street until Scott Boulevard is done. However I
don't think paving it is changing my mind, I do disagree with you on that. I guess
I would vote to go with the plan from the city on getting that road graded and
paved because this is just something we probably don't want to talk about but
there is a group of people out there trying to get people to run for the next city
council election who are not going to build First Avenue at all and if I'm defeated
by this group I happen to want First Avenue paved because I can tell you that if it
is blocked, the citizens of Iowa City will open it.
Lehman/All right I think we have.
O'Donnell/Let me make my.
Lehman/Go ahead Mike.
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O'Donnell/You even have to take a step farther, by resolution this Noah Noaheast
District Plan was passed and I think to called from that you'd need the amendment
to the resolution to open First Avenue first but I.
Vanderhoef/And you're right Mike because this is a plan and every time we do a comp.
plan when we do a district plan they are nothing more than plans.
O'Donnell/Yea I agree.
Vanderhoef/And we can change plans when we need to change them for good reason
whatever that might be.
O'Donnell/Yea I agree with you.
Pfab/Wasn't the March 7 vote a change to that plan really?
Vanderhoef/No.
Pfab/That's fine.
Kanner/Well let me ask Steve or Chuck along the lines of if we delay First Avenue from
this first year to next year, what if we did Captain Irish Phase II and Phase III in
the same year. Isn't that possible and wouldn't that be a better bidding?
Atkins/It probably would be better, I don't think it's physically possible.
Wilburn/That' s what I was understood.
Atkins/Chuck's saying yea, it was just, it's such a big project we'd have to put it.
Vanderhoef/Chuck could.
Kanner/Bigger project.
Vanderhoef/Could you respond to the contractors perspective of if we grade one year and
pave another year I presume we have to do some regarding in there and we
increase our costs considerably by delaying the paving and I certainly would like to
know.
Schmadeke/We estimate that additional cost to be about $20,000.
Lehman/Erosion control.
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Schmadeke/Erosion control and regarding in the spring, maintaining it in the winter.
Vanderhoef/And I agree with you Connie, that we need to just go ahead grade, pave, and
I'll support that.
Lehman/All right, where are you coming down on this because I think it's time to move
on.
Kanner/I think we need to support the four points which say grading in fiscal year 02 and
paving in 03 so I would say delay, don't accept what' s in the consent calendar for
starting early.
Lehman/But we have five who do so we're.
Atkins/Well I can't leave here without understanding what you're going to vote on later
tonight.
Lehman/Five Council people have agreed to what is in the consent calendar and move
forward but with.
Atkins/But I want you to understand.
Lehman/(Can't hear) strong understanding, I didn't hear anybody on this Council who has
any interest in opening First Avenue until Scott Boulevard and Captain Irish is
done.
Atkins/Then I want to confirm this with you because I don't want to get bit in the behind
later on by (can't hear). Number one no through traffic on First Avenue or
Captain Irish until both road projects are complete, finished, done, simultaneous
opening.
Lehman/Right.
Atkins/With lever it the same time.
O'Donnell/That' s always been the understanding.
Pfab/No that wasn't the understanding, the understanding was (can't hear).
Lehman/That' s the understanding now, go ahead Steve.
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Atkins/I just want you to know what your going to vote on so we understand so we can
right the contract to meet your policy. The water, the, I'm going backwards now.
First Avenue extension will be paved in 03.
Vanderhoef/No.
Champion/No.
Pfab/Yes.
Lehman/Well it's going to be paved in 02.
Vanderhoef/02.
Champion/02.
(All talking, can't hear)
Pfab/03.
Lehman/It may end up 02 depending on weather.
Atkins/All right now so there' s, just understand that' s where your split so no through
traffic is okay, the resolution that you'll consider when you adopt, when you
considering adopting it will have paving in 02, (can't hear) vote against it.
Pfab/Point of information, are you following what your?
Atkins/I'm going backwards, I'm going.
Pfab/So where are you right now?
Atkins/Right now you've, I want to make sure what you're voting on.
Pfab/Okay tell me where you're on the paper here.
Atkins/Policy position, on that.
Pfab/Okay I said right on my screen now.
Atkins/Top four items.
Kanner/Page 59 in the.
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Pfab/But I mean under the numbers, I'm looking at 9, am I too high?
Atkins/That's what, you're right on the nose.
Pfab/Okay, all right, we're following.
Atkins/Okay I'm going to start all over again. On the consent calendar if you, you will be
voting on a Captain Irish/First Avenue plan and spec. hearing, and it's important
when you vote on the plans and the spec hearing that when the contractors pick up
these documents they know what kind of schedule you have. If your telling them
you can't do A until B is complete or, that has got to be noted in the construction
documents, okay, I've got three going, and two going. But I need to know First
Avenue, I'll change will, can be graded in 02, that means July the 1st and
thereafter. Not allowing any construction season nothing.
Pfab/Your following.
Atkins/Right down the line.
Pfab/And where are you at what?
Atkins/The first one.
Pfab/Under 9.
Atkins/Under 9.
Pfab/Bullet number one under 9.
Atkins/First Avenue can be graded in 02 that means after July 1 st, no consideration for
construction scheduling seasons, whatever.
Vanderhoef/No.
Lehman/We're saying do it.
Champion/Do it.
Lehman/Phase II and First Avenue let, as it appears in the consent calendar set the public
hearing, let the contract, let the games begin, don't open the road, but do it.
Vanderhoef/But we're saying build before July 1 of.
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Lehman/Yes.
Atkins/Okay.
Kanner/Yea override this point, a new policy position.
Atkins/Okay thank you, that' s where I'm trying to figure this out. First Avenue can be
graded.
Vanderhoef/In 01.
Atkins/In 01, the water lines will be installed as part of the project.
Lehman/Right.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Atkins/First Avenue can be paved.
Champion/Right.
Atkins/In 01.
Vanderhoef/01.
Atkins/But there will be no through, and Captain Irish Phase II can be graded and paved.
Lehman/01.
Atkins/And no through traffic. That' s what' s on for tonight.
Lehman/Right.
Atkins/You can choose to amend, make motions to amend that, I guess I would, I'm
sorry that I put it on consent, I should have put it as a separate item.
Kanner/Yea I'm going to ask it be brought off the consent calendar.
Atkins/Okay thank you one of you need to pull that off. Now when we're all done
voting, when we're all done voting on this tonight and we'll pull the tape, right a
memo, confirming what the position was, because I'm seeing lots of.
Lehman/Do we all understand?
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Champion/I thought we made ourselves clear.
Lehman/See I think we all.
O'Donnell/Perfectly clear.
Eleanor Dilkes/Can I.
Lehman/I think we all understand. Eleanor.
Dilkes/Can I just, the item that your voting on tonight is a resolution setting the public
hearing on the plans and specs. for Phase II of Captain Irish and First Avenue.
Lehman/Right.
Dilkes/The questions are number 1, should those plans and specs provide for construction
prior to July 1 st 2002?
Champion/Yes.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Dilkes/Number 2 should those plans and specs paving of First Avenue?
Champion/Yes.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Pfab/No.
Lehman/Yes.
Dilkes/Okay.
Lehman/All right.
Atkins/We're all set.
Lehman/Thank you Steve
Atkins/Okay thank you.
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Review Al~enda Items
Lehman/Review Agenda Items.
Vanderhoef/I had some questions earlier today on consent calendar just to get more
information about the Ross Grant and I went in and talked with Maggie and maybe
you folks would like to hear. But my questions were who' s going to administer it
and what is the city matching obligation to this grant and what happens at the end
of the three years for the grant so Maggie do you want me to say what you told me
or do you want to tell everybody.
Lehman/Tell us.
Vanderhoef/Okay the grant is going to be administered by Goodwill so we have no piece
in that, our matching obligations are going to be in that we will work with them
with the child care component however there will be no dollars available to us in
that project and if the Ross Grant is not continued it will go away and we have no
continuing obligation on that. Right.
Maggie Grosvenor/It will be administered by us.
Atkins/Microphone.
Lehman/Microphone please.
Vanderhoef/The total administration but the dollars will go.
Grosvenor/The administration is the housing authority, the grant came to us, I just
wanted to make sure that was clear, we'll do the federal reporting, we'll take the
money in, the contractor is with Goodwill, they will hire the person to do the
work, (can't hear).
Lehman/Okay.
Vanderhoef/So the dollars go that way for the project.
Pfab/I have a question.
Lehman/Yes.
Pfab/Want the person to do what?
Grosvenor/Job training and job development.
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Pfab/Okay this is for, now what about the transportation item, that' s part of it?
Grosvenor/That' s a real minor of it, there are transportation problems with the clients
getting them to the job training or job development.
Pfab/So you're talking wheels to work.
Grosvenor/I don't know, I don't know.
Pfab/And this is, I've heard (can't hear) and pieces of this, so I understood this gave at
least a part time for someone to advance and administer facilitate a donation of
cars and where low income people can buy the cars, the donated cars under
certain terms and conditions and is extremely favorable to them with assistance
and guidance.
Grosvenor/That' s what Wheels to Work is but there' s no money for a part time position
to administer that.
Pfab/There isn't.
Grosvenor/No absolutely not.
Vanderhoef/And Wheels to Work is only one of several different kinds of transportation
things that could happen to here.
Grosvenor/Transportation is itsby bitsy in this grant, it's little, the main issue is job
development and job training, if there are job transportation issues related to that
then transportation will be addressed.
Pfab/Is there no funding, there's no funding for transportation?
Grosvenor/No.
Pfab/Well I was under the impression, my understanding was and it was kind of sketchy
was that there was going to be a part time or a full time position there to
administer the transportation end of it, that was part of it.
Grosvenor/We're going to have our meeting tomorrow with Goodwill to discuss some of
this but it needed your approval before we're going to go that far, I mean we're
not going to go into all that work and discuss all the details of it if you don't
approve the grant. So this is hte first step, tomorrow's the next step, I can give
you an update. But I can tell you right now there' s no position for a transportation
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facilitator. It's going to be a goodwill employee and that' s not going to be 100
percent of their duties and it's not my decision, Goodwill is going to hire the
person, it's going to be a Goodwill employee and if transportation is an issue then
possibly that will be addressed.
Pfab/All right.
Grosvenor/No transportation.
Pfab/That' s not totally different than what I understood.
Grosvenor/Okay.
Lehman/All right guys we're going to take a break until 5:30.
BREAK
Lehman/Any other agenda items.
Dilkes/Ernie I'm told that I misspoke when I was asking you about the what it is you
wanted to do with First Avenue on the plans and specs and I said do you want to
begin construction prior to July 1 2002?
Lehman/2001.
Dilkes/2001.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Wilburn/I've got an item.
Lehman/Yes.
ITEM NO. 16 CONSIDER CITY OF IOWA CITY LAW ENFORCEMENT NON-
DISCRIMINATION RESOLUTION.
Wilburn/I believe it's Item number 16. The law enforcement non-discrimination
resolutions. I had Marian put a couple modifications and should be in your packet
you received tonight on the actual wording of the resolution but before I get to
that I'll actually just step back from that for a minute and look at what' s in the
tonight' s agenda packet. I think the comment packet there describes what I hope
to accomplish with this resolution. Wanted to acknowledge is Iowa City.
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Pfab/What page are you on?
Wilburn/This is page 9 in your packet it's number 16 in tonight' s agenda.
Pfab/Okay the hard copy.
Wilburn/Item 16 Irvin.
Pfab/16, okay let' s go.
Wilburn/This notes that the Iowa City Police Department was the first in the state to start
a self examination practice within the department so that' s some of the data that
the police, the Chief has been collecting. And notes that as a result of that in some
of the work that the Chief has been doing that there' s some other communities in
Iowa are beginning looking at some type of review internal assessment to
determine if racial profiling is going on. The, it says that I'm proposing (can't
hear) for two reasons, one to take a position against racial profiling and two to
encourage other communities, other law enforcement jurisdictions to do the same,
to look at their training, modify training if need be, to take steps to ensure that
racial profiling is not happening. If you think about it, many people, I think most
of you would not encourage this because of what someone else looks like, not
based on anything else that they should be stopped whether your as short as Dee
or a grandpa like Ernie is but you wouldn't want that to happen, so that's what this
is about. That now if you look at the resolution, I asked the Chief to be here
tonight to maybe give us an update or to just comment on what' s here in the
resolution.
Pfab/Where is the resolution now?
Wilburn/It's in your manila envelope that' s passed out tonight.
Pfab/Okay I didn't see it, that' s why I was wondering, it may be here, is this what it looks
like?
Wilburn/The modification is this is.
Pfab/Let me see the face of what does it look like. Okay, that' s all right, I ran through it
and I didn't see one because I was so aware, and I feel for it, I didn't see that it my
packet now that doesn't mean that's not there. Because there, I want to address
on it and that' s the reason I want to speak to it. Oh here it is, the lost has been
found.
Lehman/Okay go ahead Ross.
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Wilburn/Okay what I did in the first whereas rather than go with that statement, I pulled
something that' s in the Iowa City Police Departments mission statement and this is
part of the mission of the Iowa City Police Department proclaims, a list of primary
objective of pursuing the ideal of community free from crime and disorder in fair,
responsive and professional manner. So that was a substitution in there, it kind of
ties it here at work.
Pfab/I'm really happy with that change.
Wilburn/Okay, the only other things I did, I replaced a couple words instead of "whereas
professional law enforcement agencies do, you can see the strike and instead of do
I put should not endorse by training, this is kind of looking nationally, I think t
here are some, I think New Jersey might have been a state that, I remember from
the History Channel or something looking at this, but anyway this goes along with
what we're saying that they should not endorse that.
Pfab/Ross.
Wilburn/Yes.
Pfab/I think that that' s a back door way to saying we should not, we should be oppose it,
see your saying not endorse, I say oppose it, I think that that statement is not
strong enough.
Wilburn/If we can back away from this again, if you remember back to the comment, we
are taking a position against racial profiling, and we are encouraging others to look
at their community and do the same.
Pfab/I.
Wilburn/Let me finish. All of the whereas' s give you a rationale of why your doing
something.
Lehman/Right.
Wilburn/The part that I would encourage you to focus on is now therefore be it resolved
because that' s what we're resolving to do.
O'Donnell/Right.
Wilburn/So I'm just letting you know now that this is what I, that when we look at this
item tonight this is what I will be proposing.
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Pfab/I, there' s two things, first of all just like the first time I read it, and I think I'm more
convinced as I think of it a week or ten days (can't hear) is we oppose it, it's not
tolerated and but I also think, the more I think about this thing, you had some
models that were there, did any of them say you were encouraging others. I think
you set an example, you don't try to drag other people along, you say this is where
we are and I think you'll need to go with that. Your statement is a lot more
focused, it's a lot stronger and how many, did you see any that said they
encouraged other people to do it?
Lehman/That isn't part of the ordinance.
Pfab/Steve.
Wilburn/That' s not part of the ordinance.
Lehman/That' s not part of the ordinance.
Pfab/That' s not part of it, it's not in there, okay then ifthat's not in there because I
encouraged somebody or say you know you should come along with me because I
think we're pretty good here, that was the sense that I was getting and I was very
uncomfortable with it, it's not that we don't want other people to follow but I
think that that, we want to follow them, we want them to follow because we're a
strong leader.
Lehman/That' s what it says.
O'Donnell/That' s exactly what it says.
Pfab/Okay that' s fine, and if it says that, I didn't have a chance to go this, but that's, two
points, one we will not tolerate it and that's where we stand.
Wilburn/Okay, I know that Steven has an alternative resolution that he would like to put
forth but before he does that I would ask that Chief come and give his, just a brief
comment as to your thoughts on this resolution and let us know of the work that
you've done with some of these other jurisdictions in drafting similar resolutions.
And before he does that, I'm looking at this as a policy statement, supporting what
he has already done and saying do more of this, modify the data to make it
meaningful for us to interpret and share it with us and my understanding Steve you
were putting together a package or proposal to share open up to the community,
but I'll stop and let you go on.
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Chief Winkelhake/I think a resolution like this is a good idea because it says that you
support the efforts you've made to take a look at this particular issue, it's a
nationwide issue, and it's not one that' s going to go away. We basically started at
the bottom, we started to find out what is it that we're really doing and we're
building from there. In the past I and Sergeant Jackson have had an opportunity to
discuss this at a statewide meeting with all the Police Chief and the Sheriff' s, we
encourage people to do this, start looking at this particular issue, Senator Bolkcom
from Iowa City has introduced legislation last year to mandate this on a state level.
I would prefer that my colleagues across the state do something like this on their
own accord. It has also introduced, Senator Bolkcom also introduced something
like this for this session, where that' s going to go I don't know. There are a
number of police departments that are going to start doing this, state patrol is
already doing it to some degree. Ottumwa is doing it, Scott County was looking
at it before the Sheriff resigned and took the job as Chief in Davenport, Ames is
going to do something, Carroll, Iowa, Webster City, Marshalltown, Cedar Rapids,
Des Moines, they're all going to do something and I think what we've done is just
the beginning, I do encourage other departments to do this. I simply don't think in
professional law enforcement there is any way you can justify profiling, racial
profiling simply can't do it. And I would like to see you do this, I think it's a good
idea.
Wilburn/And I think it's important that we sanction this and let others see that this is
something that we don't want to see happen in our community and I'll stop right
there.
Vanderhoef/I would just add one possibility Irvin said something about making it slightly
stronger, and to me instead of being should shall is a stronger word in my mind.
Lehman/Well but it's also, but this is in the whereas section which I think we should
probably should not it's probably appropriate and certainly before not after the
now therefore.
Vanderhoef/No I'm talking about changing the should to shall up in the whereas.
O'Donnell/I think it's written fine.
Champion/It's fine, I don't have any, I like the way it is.
Kanner/Yea Ross, I like the idea that we are publicly stating that as an entity, as a city, as
a City Council as a police organization we don't endorse the idea of racial profiling
of any way and we talked and there are a few things I would like to add to make it
stronger or to show our resolve for a couple other issues and those are on page 2.
And probably the most important thing is that we support what' s being talked
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about at our Police Citizen Review Board that an outside independent and
qualified agency will be hired to analyze the local statistics compiled regarding
racial profiling whether it be an entity that has expertise in it in this area or the
NAACP or the ACLU, I'm not quite sure but I think we need to resolve that part
of the plan, it's not just enough to say we're doing it but we have to analyze with
some outside independent people to do that, and I think that' s important to do.
Wilburn/Do you want to (can't hear) respond to this one?
Kanner/Why don't I list these here. And then I think it's important that we get regular
reports and discussions and that we as a Council we expect those kind of things
and that they continue to happen and we report what' s going out now and that we
want to have more of the same regarding racial profiling to Iowa City Police
Citizen' s Review Board and/or the Human Rights Commission and the City
Council, that' s the second point. And another part of this problem I think is as I
looked at the civil service recruitment or people who took the test I think we need
to resolve and show the community that we'll be more assertive in recruitment of
minor and women applicants, we can't by law as we've been told that quotas are
affirmative action but we can be more resolved in the community more where we
might reach more minorities and women be part of our police force and our fire
department. And I think that' s an important component if we're going to deal
with the issues that are brought up by racial profiling in our society. And then the
fourth one is in your resolution you talk about history and I'm not quite sure what
the history is, I would assume that we have a history of non-discrimination in our
city over the last number of years but I'm not sure where that stopped and started
or started and stopped. I do know that there is a history of discrimination in our
city and most city' s and I would like to do a fact finding ad hoc committee of sort
to study the history of discrimination in Iowa City to see if it's going on now in
any form and what is the history of it in Iowa City. Those are the major things and
then there' s some other things after comment I'll bring up.
Wilburn/Just so the others that you know, the final two points that you brought up were
in my mind are issues related to recruitment and hiring of employees and I think
that' s beyond, that' s not related to racial profiling as a potential of enforcement,
law enforcement, I view this is a resolution related to law enforcement practice and
so I'm not willing to have that considered as part of the resolution that I put
forward because of that fact and if you have some concerns or want to see work
done related to hiring practices, I would encourage you to come forth with a
separate resolution. The first two related to data analysis and does that data
analysis, and then in regards to recording, I hear what your saying there but as I
thought further about those, those are related to practice as opposed to a policy
statement and I think in terms of where reports are done we can get a report any
time, in fact those, my understanding is that the PD is looking at trying to make
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that data more meaningful, collecting some other data, in other words what
happens when someone is stopped. And so in my mind, that' s going to be
happening, and we can, we can get a report, all we have to do is ask for it, and
we're getting some. Other wise in terms of the data analysis, again that' s a
practice and not a policy. They're going to be collecting the data and I think that
there may be some disagreement as to who is a qualified person, who is
independent, who is outside, that data will be there and if and I don't know the
work that the work the chief, that the chief has done with the state but the data
will be there and I'm not sure how much your familiar with the research process
data can be analyzed and looked by anybody and so, because I thought about, I
want to stick to a policy statement and that data can be there to used to be
interpreted as seen by fit by or if we want to get real specific with that, that is
something we would need to get more information about how the data's collected,
the research design, and I think that' s stuff that can be discussed later after we
receive education if council were interested in that. But right now I would like to
keep this a policy statement to support efforts that have been going on now, to
support at least an attempt at an effort at the state level.
(END OF 01-23 SIDE ONE)
Wilburn/Also just in terms of timing, it's probably a minor point but it's also Black
History Month and so I thought it would be nice if we got a policy statement out
supporting so I guess I'll stop right there.
Pfab/Could I, Chief could you come, ChiefWinkelhake could you come? I mean I have a
question for you. Do you have a copy of this?
Winkelhake/I've seen it.
Pfab/But I mean you don't have it right in front of you? There' s a second one here,
would you hand it to (can't hear). There's a point I want to make on it and I
think that the statement is not strong enough and here' s what I would suggest and
see if this is, as it is there you go to the second whereas, okay, I would change that
and, I'm not opposed to other changes that it doesn't have to be my words but this
is the intent I want it to say and I support what, but I don't want it go get watered
down. Whereas professional law enforcement agencies opposed by training and
policy enforcement practices that depend on racial profiling. I want it to be a
strong forward positive statement, no we will not tolerate it.
Wilburn/Well if you look at it though Irvin that' s a statement about law enforcement
agencies in general not (can't hear).
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Pfab/Well you could even say the Iowa City, if you could put that in, I have no problem,
but I think you have to make a strong statement, we are opposed to it, whereas is
that's all (can't hear) an that's fine but you have to take a stand, that's my point,
no more no less.
Champion/We are taking a stand.
Vanderhoef/Irvin.
Wilburn/I don't think it's necessary something the Chief needs to respond to since I'm
putting this ordinance and I'm.
Pfab/But I mean, but you said you had worked together with him so that was my, I
wanted him to see what I was suggesting and so you could do the same.
Vanderhoef/Irvin if you look at the very top bold it identifies that this is Iowa City law
enforcement.
Pfab/Well then to say whereas Iowa City.
Vanderhoef/We don't have to say it a gillion times throughout this whole resolution is
about Iowa City law enforcement non-discrimination.
Pfab/It's too whamsy pamsy by the time you get through it, that' s my problem.
Lehman/All right.
Kanner/Well Irvin the place to put what you're talking about as a proposal is not in the
whereas but in the therefore.
Pfab/Okay.
Kanner/So the whereas' are talking about what we assume is taking place, that' s the case
that' s being built and some positive and some negative things. And actually I
would disagree with Dee with you Dee that this whole thing is about Iowa City
law enforcement, there' s some mixing of Iowa City and national statements about
national and local and those are some of things I have some concern because it's
not just for instance a reporter perception there is actual fact that some law officers
in our country engage in discriminary traffic enforcement practices through racial
profiling. We've seen numerous reports of that and I think we ought to put that in
as the whereas, that' s another thing. Ross I think policy is a way of dismissing
something that makes it a little stronger, I think that when I say an outside
independent qualified agency the point is that we're saying we think this is a policy
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that has to be done, so in fact I would see it as a policy also, we're not saying
actually how that's going to be done, we're saying this is something that we value
that just have those figures. Sure they can be analyzed by people but we're also
saying as a council we want the best of our ability to find someone who can
analyze them and say is there something there that we need to be looking at closer
and so I think it is important that we include something like that the certainly the
analysis, I think that' s a strong component of it.
Lehman/Steve don't you think the PCRB really serves that purpose?
Kanner/Well I think.
Lehman/They really are outside, they're really pretty independent.
Kanner/I think they serve the purpose of saying we don't want racial profiling but we're
as a Council we're endorsing that policy in general and I think PCRB could serve
that purpose but we're also saying as a Council that we want that analysis to
happen that we're agreeing with it so I, it could happen through PCRB, we're just
saying this is what we want to happen as a Council, just like we're saying previous.
Wilburn/And again I'm just looking as a practice that can be done as a policy statement
certainly you could do that, I at this point don't think its necessary, in an effort to
move US On.
Champion/I like it.
Wilburn/I would say this is the one that I am putting forth, others if you're not happy with
this that that item be deferred, I would ask you, I would ask Council not to defer it
that we move forward on this.
O'Donnell/Ross I think you've done an incredible job on this, this is something we all
support and I support it totally.
Lehman/Okay we'll get another chance to talk about it tonight.
Pfab/I will probably vote against it just because it' s not strong enough.
Wilburn/Okay.
Pfab/I mean so, it's not that I'm opposed to what your doing.
Lehman/But that' s the message you'd be sending if you vote against it.
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Pfab/Well I just don't think it's strong enough.
Wilburn/I was just going to say there are other items and some of the things Steve was
suggesting I invite you to introduce those as separate resolutions some other time
or as we get reports, or after reports that we just ask for those things as they come
so anyway.
Lehman/Other agenda items. Thanks Ross.
Vanderhoef/Thanks for work.
O'Donnell/Nice job Ross.
ITEM #13. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CITY CODE TITLE 14,
ENTITLED "UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE," CHAPTER 5, ENTITLED
"BUILDING AND HOUSING," BY ADDING A NEW ARTICLE K ENTITLED
"CONDOMINIUM CONVERSION CODE" TO ESTABLISH PROCEDURES
FOR CONVERSION OF EXISTING STRUCTURES USED FOR HUMAN
HABITATION TO HORIZONTAL PROPERTY REGIMES
(CONDOMINIUMS). (FIRST CONSIDERATION).
Dilkes/I have just a quick comment on the condominium conversion.
Lehman/And that' s item.
Dilkes/Ordinance which is 13. We're going to back up to the first reading on that
because I've changed it to apply only to condominium's used for human
habitation, the state law is less than ideally drafted, the one we're trying to
implement here, but I think it' s pretty clear from the history of state legislation that
what they were attempting to deal with in all of this was the conversion of
apartment buildings to condominiums to get the more favorable tax assessment, so
I clarified that in the ordinance. So it, this in other words will not apply to
commercial buildings that are being made into condominiums for sale of separate
floors or separate areas where there's no tax assessment issue.
Lehman/And this is first consideration on that item tonight.
Dilkes/Yes.
Pfab/So your saying that the way you have it now is the way you want it so we start over
now?
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Dilkes/Yea, I think it's, I mean it's a close call whether it's a substantial change or not but
I don't think it hurts so.
Pfab/Okay, no, no, that' s fine, otherwise I was going to say maybe if your not (can't hear)
we can defer it.
Dilkes/No this is the way I would propose it.
Kanner/Tell me what the changes again is please.
Dilkes/It applies to condominiums, residential condominiums, condominiums used for
human habitation not commercial.
Lehman/Right.
Kanner/So not the type we're selling in the parking ramp in other words.
Lehman/Right.
Champion/Right.
Kanner/In other words.
Dilkes/Well that wouldn't apply anyway because that' s always been a, that' s not being
converted to a condominium.
Lehman/Other agenda, I'm sorry.
Kanner/I had a few things.
Lehman/Go ahead.
ITEM #5E(2)). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE WORK FOR THE
IAIS/CRANDIC INTERCHANGE PROJECT, STP-A-3715 ( 12)--86-52.
Kanner/In the consent calendar number 5E(2) resolution, where is the IAIS and Crandic
interchange, where' s that railroad interchange that we're accepting work?
Lehman/It's out in Iowa County isn't it?
Atkins/It's Iowa County, I think it's a Homestead address.
Kanner/Oh so this is so it's a stop, the backing up oftraftic.
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Atkins/That' s it, the one built out in the country.
Vanderhoef/It's a clean air project.
Kanner/We have to accept the work for that?
Atkins/It was our project, we were the project, we took the project lead, railroad paid the
match, we applied for the grant and we apparently officially have to sign off on the
thing.
Lehman/We're the facilitator of it.
Kanner/Did Iowa County have anything to do with it?
Atkins/I couldn't tell you.
Pfab/They provided the land.
Vanderhoef/The railroad could not apply for this grant, that was the, and they came to us
and asked us to apply for the grant for them knowing full well that they'd take
responsibility for the additional dollars that we're paid by the grant money.
ITEM 11. A PURCHASE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY
AND GRAYTOWNE APARTMENTS FOR CONDOMINIUM UNIT 2A IN
TOWER PLACE & PARKING AND TO DISPOSE OF UNIT 2A IN
ACCORDANCE THEREWITH.
Kanner/Okay. And then who are the people that are purchasing the condo. for
Graytowne apartments, I'd like to have some names with who we're dealing with.
Who are these folks, is there, who are the owners of Graytowne apartments? This
is item number 11.
Dilkes/Dean Price.
Champion/What difference does that make?
Vanderhoef/Dean Price.
Atkins/Dean Price signed the contract.
Kanner/And this Graytowne apartments this is their office.
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Dilkes/No I believe the plan is that they intend to lease that space to a law firm.
Atkins/And an engineering firm.
Dilkes/And an engineering firm.
INFO. PACKET 1P 13.
Kanner/And in the info. packet just there was a correction that I wanted to put for item
number 13 for the minutes from the 2/5 work budget session, it doesn't mention
that there will be the possible use of revenue bonds to repay the EPA storm water
cost, we talked about that as a possible.
Champion/Right.
Atkins/That's right we did.
Kanner/Way to take care of those capital funds and so that' s something that I think is
important to put in there.
INFO. PACKET 1P #17.
Kanner/And item number 17, we had a copy of the front page in the info. a copy of the
citizens comment form.
Pfab/Are you talking in this packet or the other?
Kanner/Info. packet.
Pfab/Info. packet, do you have a page on that?
Kanner/It's page 75, I just want to know where the comments are, why that wasn't
included. That would be.
Atkins/Do you all have this? There was two pieces of paper.
Kanner/I only saw the first page on 75.
Atkins/Mr. White' s comments.
Dilkes/It's a letter that's attached.
Atkins/Yea he wrote a letter.
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Atkins/It could have missed on yours but I'll see that you get a copy of this, it was his
comments.
Pfab/It says please find comments attached.
Vanderhoef/Yea and they weren't there.
Dilkes/They aren't there?
Atkins/Oh they aren't there.
Kanner/Could we get a copy of that?
Dilkes/Yea we've got it in our packet.
Kanner/Okay, thank you.
INFO. PACKET 1P #15
Kanner/And then we had a memo from Karin item number 15.
Pfab/Page.
Kanner/Page 72, a two way memo from Karin regarding the restoration of Iowa River
Clear Creek and I think we was asking us should we pursue that about wetlands
restoration of to do with collaboration with UI, Coralville, and the Corps of
Engineers and this would be for fiscal year 04 so I think we need to just give the
unofficial okay on that, perhaps discuss for a minute or two if anybody has any
questions. The local costs are, she estimates at about $196,000, that would be
split between three local entities I assume (can't hear) and then $15,000 a year for
maintenance costs split also three ways. Anybody have any suggestions.
Pfab/I would support that, I think that's a great idea.
Atkins/When I asked Karin to write the summary of the thing, I mean we were working at
it for some time, it isn't in the odd years, and I again I missed the tailend
statement, we made the assumption all along this is just in respect to this project
that we wish for us to proceed.
Lehman/Yea this is a Army Corps, it's money they come up with.
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Atkins/Yea, Steven is correct, the concluding sentence would lead you to believe that
they need for you to give us an okay on the thing.
Champion/We already talked about this.
Lehman/Can we give you an informal okay right now?
Atkins/That's fine.
Lehman/Is that okay guys, department informal okay.
Champion/And this is along the Iowa River right?
Lehman/Right.
Atkins/Yea, it's a good project.
Kanner/All the way from the water plant down to Hancher.
Champion/Yea we talked about it, maybe you weren't on the Council when we talked
about it.
Atkins/It's probably two years old.
Lehman/It's been a long time.
Atkins/We've been working with it off and on for two years.
Kanner/Certainly long term.
Atkins/Yea.
Kanner/I think that is it.
Lehman/Any other agenda items?
{Council} Rules of Conduct
Lehman/The next item is one that Rules of Conduct that Council asked for at the last
meeting, and I guess I've been on the Council for my 8th year, so far we, my
feeling is that Council has the ability and responsibility to stand rules of conduct
for Council people during Council meetings what occurs outside of Council
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meetings I don't think it's purview to council but I certainly will open this up for
any discussion by any council person.
O'Donnell/Well you know reasonable people can agree with each other as well as
disagree with each other, and we need to be careful to what we say to the news
media, I could say tonight that Ernie doesn't like grandchildren and.
Lehman/That might be dangerous.
O'Donnell/But I mean, we all understand that that' s false because Ernie reaches euphoric
state when he talks about his grandchildren.
Champion/And his dog.
Lehman/Glad you noticed.
O'Donnell/But somebody out there might believe that Ernie actually doesn't like his
grandchildren, you know this is, it' s unfortunate, it' s I just do not see why
reasonable people can't work with each other so I'm going to leave it there.
Lehman/Other discussion. Well you know what it's 5 minutes after 6:00, we're going to
be doing council time in a few hours unless there's something that someone wants
that' s really imperative that we do right now and certainly we're welcome to. We
do need to grab a bite and be prepared to go on with the formal meeting in 55
minutes. Is there anything for council time that anyone would like to do now.
Pfab/I think you discouraged it but I didn't have anything anyway.
Lehman/No, no, I know.
Pfab/I was just kidding.
Lehman/Let's grab something to eat and we'll be back.
Adjourned 6:05 PM
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