HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-10-08 Transcription October 8, 2001 Special Work Session Page 1
October 8, 2001 Special Work Session 5:00 PM
Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilbum, Pfab, Karmer
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Davidson, Mollenhauer, Boothroy
TAPES: 01-91 BOTH SIDES
Lehman/The work session, the first item is our zoning items, Ms. Franklin.
Franklin/Yes.
O'Donnell/Perfect timing.
Lehman/Your entry is perfect.
Franklin/Good.
Plannin~ & Zonin~
A. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR OCTOBER 23 ON
AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 3.07 ACRE FROM
MEDIUM DENSITY MULTI~AMILY, RM-20, TO MED1UM DENSITY
SINGLE FAMILY, RS-8, LOCATED AT 747 W. BENTON STREET. (REZ01-
00013)
Franklin/It's a lot of setting public hearings.
Wilburn/Is that your executive summary or?
Franklin/That's, yes that's the executive summary. Okay, for the 23rd to rezone
approximately 3 acres from RM-20 to RS-8 at 747 W. Benton Street, that's to set
a public hearing. I'm just going to run through these quickly unless you guys stop
me.
B. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR OCTOBER 23 ON
AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 6.15 ACRES FROM
INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL, CI-1, TO COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL, CC-2,
LOCATED AT COMMERCE DRIVE AND LIBERTY DRIVE. (REZ01-00015)
Franklin/To set a public hearing on an ordinance to rezone approximately 6 acres from
Intensive Commercial to Community Commercial at Commerce Drive and
Liberty Drive, that' s in Scott Six Industrial Park, that's what' s ~known as the
Fareway Rezoning.
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C. CONSDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR OCTOBER 23 ON
AN ORDNANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 24.12 ACRES FROM
INTERIM DEVELOPMENT SINGLE-FAMILY, D-RS, TO SENSITIVE
AREAS OVERLAY LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY, SAO-5, LOCATED
EAST OF HICKORY TRAIL. (REZ01-00012)
Franklin/Item C is the setting a public hearing to rezone 24 acres from DRS Interim
Development to the Sensitive Areas Ove~ay density of 5 units per acre, that' s
First and Rochester Developments at the end of Hickory Trail.
D. CONSDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR OCTOBER 23 ON
A REZONING ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE OPDH PLAN FOR VILLAGE
GREEN PART XVIII TO PERMIT NINE ADDITIONAL RESIDENTIAL
UNITS ON 4.33 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF SCOTT
BOULEVARD AND SOUTH OF WELLINGTON DRIVE. (REZ01-00018)
Franklin/The next is to set a public hearing again October 23 for a portion of Village
Green part 18 and this is for 4 acres for condominium development along Scott
Boulevard.
E. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR NOVEMBER 13
ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE 1.38 ACRES FROM HIGH DENSITY
MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RM-44, TO MEDIUM DENSITY MULTI-
FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RM-20 FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1045-1075
W. BENTON STREET. (REZ01-00020)
Franklin/Item E is to set a public hearing for November 13 and this is for the rezoning of
1.38 acres on Benton Street at 1045-1075 West Benton from RM-44 to RM-20,
this is the item that' s on the work session agenda separately, what would you
prefer Ernie do you want to talk about that now or later?
Lehman/What's your pleasure? We're there go ahead.
Franklin/Okay, basically what' s in your packet was a memorandum from me regarding
this proposed rezoning that was proposed by Robynn Schrader at your September
25 meeting on behalf of the neighborhood in the Weeber-Harlocke area. And in
that memorandum I just outlined a schedule, by setting a public hearing tonight
that would begin a moratorium or suspension of building permits that were not in
compliance with both the existing zoning and the proposed zoning of RM-20 so it
does not mean that no building permits could be issued but those building permits
would have to be for a project that would comply with either zone. The 60 days is
up on December 7 and so for the moratorium to have any affect that is for you to
have time to consider the rezoning of this property you would have to complete
that by December 7.
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Lehman/Karin this would also go through the regular Planning & Zoning process.
Franklin/Yes it definitely would go through the regular Planning & Zoning process.
Lehman/Recommend and get back to us, okay.
Franklin/And that is scheduled for October 18 and November 1st Planning & Zoning
Commission. That follows just their regular two meetings that they usually do
with the rezoning and that's the assumption that I make and that schedule I put
together for you.
Kanner/Karin have you heard from the proposed buyers of the property who wish to
increase the density from the present state there?
Franklin/Yes.
Kanner/What have they said so far regards to (can't hear)?
Franklin/They prefer that this didn't happen I mean obviously, they have a plan that
would maximize the density of the property and so they are not in favor of this
moratorium being set or the down zoning being considered but that' s what one
would expect.
Kanner/Did they say it would cause any (can't hear) financial harm if we didn't proceed
as soon as possible?
Franklin/I have not heard that statement from them, I wouldn't put those words in their
mouth or not put those words in their mouth.
Kanner/Thank you.
Franklin/So that' s basically it on that particular rezoning that has been requested for you
to set the public hearing. The only difference that's being asked is that you set the
public hearing earlier than what you normally would with the Planning & Zoning
Commission recommendation, typically you wouldn't set the public hearing until
after you got that recommendation just so you understand.
F. AN ORDiNANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 14.07 ACRES OF PROPERTY
FROM LOW DENSITY SiNGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RS-5, AND
PEANED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY - LOW DENSITY SiNGLE FAMILY
RESIDENTIAL, OPDH-5, TO OPDH-5, FOR APPROXIMATELY 14.07
ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF VILLAGE ROAD AND
NORTH OF WiNTERGREEN DRIVE. (REZ01-00014)
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Franklin/Okay, I'm going back to the agenda Item F is, it's also, it's actually setting a
public heating, what happened is there was a mess up on getting the notice in the
paper and so the public heating that you set at your meeting the last time, basically
you do not open that public hearing, you reset a public hearing for October 23 on
this same issue.
Lehman/So the appropriate action on F is to set a public heating for October 23.
Franklin/Yes, yes.
Lehman/Okay.
G. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE ZONING CODE, ARTICLE 9,
SIGN REGULATIONS, TO PERMIT CANOPY ROOF SIGNS. (SECOND
CONSIDERATION)
Franklin/Item G is second consideration on canopy roof signs.
H. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 30.11 ACRES OF
PROPERTY FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL, RR-1, TO SENSITIVE AREAS
OVERLAY - LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMiLY RESIDENTIAL, OSA-5,
LOCATED AT THE WEST END OF BRISTOL DRIVE. (REZ01-00011) (PASS
AND ADOPT)
Franklin/Item H pass and adopt on the Bristol Drive OSA rezoning.
I. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF A
RESUBDIVISION OF LOT 236, WASHINGTON PARK ADDITION, PART 11
(ARBOR HiLL), AN 8.02 ACRE, 2-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION
LOCATED NORTH OF WASHINGTON STREET, EAST OF GREEN
MOUNTAIN DRIVE. (SUB01-00017)
Franklin/Item I, there is a request to defer this again to October 23 while the Attomey's
for the applicant can get the legal papers together.
J. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL
PLAT OF SALTZMAN SUBDIVISION, A 2.8-ACRE, 3-LOT COMMERCIAL
SUBDIVISION LOCATED EAST OF RIVERSIDE DRIVE SOUTH OF
BENTON STREET. (SUB01-00011)
Franklin/And Item J similarly to defer again to October 23 while they get their legal
papers again.
Karr/Excuse me Karin I had deferred to 11-13 on J.
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Franklin/Oh, okay. I will defer to what you have.
O' Donnell/That' s November 13.
Dilkes/We'll let you know before you get there.
Franklin/Yea.
Lehman/Fair.
Franklin/That' s it.
Lehman/All right great.
Al~enda Items
3e(1). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTiNG THE WORK FOR THE IOWA
AVENUE STREETSCAPE PHASE II PROJECT.
Vanderhoef/I'll just give you a heads up on the consent calendar I have a conflict on 3e.
Karr/Excuse me, yea we're going to have to wear the microphone, I can't.
Lehman/Oh the mic, I'm sorry.
Vanderhoef/Okay I have a conflict of interest on the consent calendar 3 e( 1 ) so I' 11 be
asking for that to be pulled tomorrow night.
Lehman/That' s tonight.
Vanderhoef/Tonight, don't let me forget.
Lehman/All right.
O'Donnell/3e(1).
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Lehman/It's at the bottom of page 2.
3b(1) BOARD OF APPEALS - SEPTEMBER 10.
Kanner/Under 3b(1) Board of Appeals 9/10 can I get? There' s the minutes of the vote on
Sycamore Mall wanted an exception for building code, and there was a 3~2 vote to
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deny but it did not list who voted which way, could I get that information by
tonight? Steve or Marian.
Atkins/I don't know.
Karr/Well it's after 5:00, ifI would have known about it I could have gotten staff, I don't
know we could try I don't know.
Kanner/Okay well the earliest you could get that would be good.
Atkins/Is that the one on the fire code?
Lehman/Right.
Vanderhoef/Yes, it is on the door ways and.
Karmer/Well actually no this is with an automatic pipe, a water pipe.
Dilkes/It dealt with the fire code.
Lehman/The fire code.
Kanner/Yea the door way, so the doorway (can't hear) something else.
Vanderhoef/Well that' s what triggered it was that with the new doorway they had to
change into a different code.
Kanner/Yea so that was kind of interesting.
Champion/I just want to ask Eleanor if there is a conflict of interest on 3e( 1 ) because it's
really just accepting the work it has nothing to do with awarding it or doing it.
Dilkes/Well I think Dee has excused herself from that discussion all the way along and
we might as well be consistent about that.
Lehman/Right.
3b(5). PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION - SEPTEMBER 5
Kanner/And number 3b(5) Parks and Recs. minutes, they were talking about the County
Farm and what to do with the County Farm from a Parks and Rec. perspective and
if they had some say so and one thing that struck me is people have been talking
about library, not library cemetery expansion and that' s something that we might
throw out there to look at perhaps in conjunction with Coralville. My
understanding is their cemetery space is near almost near the limit, and people
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talked about the possibility of, we're talking about cemetery in Hickory Hill, some
people through out the idea of a west side cemetery, this might be a good space
that perhaps could be incorporated with historical aspects that other people are
concerned with, so I don't know is there any interest in that from any of the
Council?
Vanderhoef/When the discussion happened earlier it was do we go into Hickory Hill or
do we go look at land to the west and now that we have proceeded with this to the
east I frankly don't have any interest in one on the west at this point.
Kanner/Well we're tied up for 50 years supposedly for cemetery and now' s maybe the
time to look past that 50 years while that land is still available and so that' s out
there and maybe Parks and Rec. people will pick it up and bring it back to us if
there's an interest.
3e. RESOLUTION.
Kanner/And I had a question on resolutions number 3e, we have letters of acceptances
from Rick Fosse on all of them except for number 2 on the Highway 6 pedestrian
overpass, I was wondering why we don't have a letter on with Rick's signature on
that. We have a letter from the contractor apparently but not from Rick and it
seemed a little unusual.
Atkins/It's probably unusual, if I recall that project, that's the pass through funding.
Lehman/University (can't hear).
Arkins/And the University would have to accept it Steven not us that's.
Kanner/Well we might want to then take away that item from acceptance because we're
formally accepting that work and I don't know who we're accepting it from if not
from our own folk or someone from the University, we're responsible for that as
the fiscal overseer.
Atkins/We were not the fiscal overseer's, we were the grant pass through, but I
understand your point.
Dilkes/I think if there's been another contractor, another oversight who has been dealing
with assuring that this contract complies then we want that letter from them and
we want to be able to rely on that letter in our acceptance of the work.
Atkins/But how do we answer Steven's question in the sense that Rick did not accept.
Dilkes/I think you're right, it has to do with, it's an unusual relationship between us and
the contractor and the University.
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Atkins/Because the owner of the project is the University.
Dilkes/I'm going to have to go back and look at those documents if you want.
Jeff Davidson/One correction to something that Steven said the letter that' s in the packet
is the firm that the University hired to oversee the project, not the designer of the
project, the designer was a firm out of Des Moines, Shive was hired to inspect the
project for the University so they would be the ones to say whether or not it
should be accepted.
Atkins/The Shive Hattery letter would be as if we were getting a Rick letter.
Davidson/Yea, exactly, they were the over sight of the construction not the designer or
the contractor obviously.
Lehman/All right thank you.
3f(1). CORRESPONDENCE. JOHN NEFF: JOHNSON COUNTY JAIL STATISTICS.
Karmer/And in correspondence we got some jail stats. and so who is John Neff?. Who
submitted that, do we know.
Vanderhoef/I asked the same question.
Atkins/I know John Neff.
Lehman/I know John.
Atkins/Occasionally sends letters to the Council about a number of issues.
Lehman/He's (can't hear) from work and I, boy I hate to say for sure but I think he's
been doing some consulting work with the county on the jail.
Atkins/He has.
Lehman/I think so.
Atkins/I thought John was a retired Professor of Education.
Lehman/He is a retired professor and he has apparently done a lot of work in this area
and not just here. And I don't, I mean the same information we got I think went
to the (can't hear)jail committee.
Atkins/Oh.
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Lehman/I mean that wasn't prepared for us, that was prepared for the jail committee and
he sent me a copy of that information and 1 requested that it go in the packet so
that everybody got the same information.
Kanner/Yea it's good to have those they look like comprehensive, there's quite a bit of
validity to them I guess that we could attach to that.
Lehman/Other agenda items. Everything else on the agenda is ready for tonight is that
correct?
ITEM 7. APPROV1NG AND AUTHORIZING EXECUTION OF AN AGREEMENT
FOR PRIVATE REDEVELOPMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF
IOWA CITY AD SEABURY & SMITH, INC. AND SOUTHGATE
DEVELOPMENT COMPANY, INC.
O'Donnell/Did I see Seabury & Smith on?
Atkins/Yes.
Lehman/Yes, that' s here.
Atkins/That came in a few minutes ago. Seabury and Smith had not finished their paper
work, it just came in.
Lehman/We got that tonight.
Atkins/It was a indemnification document that they had not signed that they corporately
were reviewing it, it was the only outstanding piece of paper.
Dilkes/Well no, the entire, the indemnification agreement is part of the agreement, the
larger agreement, and we passed you out the pages that showed changes to the
agreement that's in your packet.
Atkins/They had accepted everything but that element that's what I thought.
Dilkes/As I understood it the corporate counsel for them has not seen it but we have told
Southgate's attorney that your, that you can proceed tonight if you wish.
Lehman/Okay. Okay, if there are no other agenda items, the next item is the Lot 64-1A, I
think we asked at the last meeting for some information which we received.
Franklin/Ernie before you go to that.
Lehman/Yes go ahead.
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Benton Zonin~ Petition and Moratorium
Franklin/There were two parts to that Benton Zoning Petition item, it was the Benton
Zoning petition and the moratorium pending the southwest district plan, we need
some direction from the Council as to whether you wish to pursue that in any way.
If you recall when Ms. Schrader came to you at the 251h, there were two requests,
one was to set the public hearing on the rezoning from R1Vi-44 to RM-20 on 1045-
1075 West Benton Street. The other request was that the Council look at a
broader moratorium in the area basically between Miller and the Hatlocke Weebet
area Benton Street to Highway One or something like that.
Lehman/That' s not part of this.
Franklin/No, it's not part of the Benton Street Rezoning Petition, that your setting the
public heating on the Benton Street Rezoning Petition is a separate thing, but what
we need from you is direction on whether you wish to pursue this larger
moratorium as the Southwest District Plan as being gone through and I guess
Eleanor if you just want to inform them as to what your staff found as far as
moratoria is concerned.
Dilkes/I think temporary moratorium can be done in a way that is defensible, there needs
to be appropriate findings as to why there's a necessity for it which I think we
probably can make in this situation and then there has to be a definite time when it
ends and we, if that's something you want us to pursue then we need to prepare
the appropriate legislation to make that happen.
Vanderhoef/Would that then necessarily even though perhaps we put a 60 day one on the
Benton Street one, would that hold that Benton Street property into that?
Dilkes/No it would not.
Lehman/This would be separate.
Dilkes/This is the one moratorium that will (can't hear).
Vanderhoef/Yea it is but because that Benton Street is in the south.
Franklin/No.
Dilkes/No because.
Franklin/Go ahead.
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Dilkes/We have a code provision that says you can only apply a moratorium for a period
of 12, 24, I can't remember what the, once you do one you can't do another one
for a period of time.
Vanderhoef/For a year.
Franklin/12 months, yea.
Vanderhoeff Okay.
Dilkes/So it would not include that property.
Vanderhoef/Okay and can you give us an update on where we are with the Southwest
Plan.
Franklin/Yes, we have scheduled the neighborhood meetings, the first round for
neighborhood meetings for the beginning of November, well I don't have the
dates in front of me but it's the very first couple of weeks of November. I would
anticipate that the Southwest District Plan in terms of it being adopted by the City
Council would be sometime next spring. We would then in terms of a
moratorium want to consider a time period in which we could look at any
potential rezonings that would happen as a consequence of the district plan which
you would then want to add at least three months to whatever it was, the date was,
let's say we set that, the plan was going to be finished in April that then you want
to have May, June and July complete any rezonings because the plan itself does
not actually do anything. Okay so with that information there's another piece of
information I need to pass onto you and that is that we have had a concept plan
submitted by the owners of a major portion of the property in this area, the
Ruppert's and their attorney has notified us that they would certainly take the
position that they do not want to have this moratorium, this general moratorium
put in place while the Southwest District Plan is being considered. I guess what I
would advise is if you, if you have an inclination to consider this at all that we put
together the necessary documents for you because I don't think that they will be
particularly onerous in terms of work load and that you have an opportunity then
for there to be some debate on this subject as to whether a moratorium is put in
place or not in which all the parties wl~o are interested will have an opportunity to
speak to you about it.
Kanner/Tell me again what the proposed moratorium is on.
Franklin/Well just roughly I think we would be looking at the area between Miller Street
and the east boundary of the RS-5 zoning which is basically the RS-5 zoning goes
along Weeber Street. So it would be from the back lot lines of the properties on
the east side of Weeber Street east to Miller and then probably from Benton to
Highway One excluding the Cox property which is the subject of the public
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heating you would be setting later on and also excluding the Southgate property
which has been the subject of a rezoning petition this year also, and the SAO.
Kanner/And again it would be for no build, what is the moratorium (can't hear)?
Franklin/The moratorium would be, well we would have to work that out, but one of the
possibilities is that it is a moratorium on any rezoning considerations or any
building permits, other than those four say remodeling of a single family house or
something like that. And that's something we would have to work through and
would be in the documentation you would be considering.
Dilkes/The idea is to preserve the status quo and we would have to work on the language
as to the best way to do that.
Pfab/I have a question, what is not in the exception? It looks like the biggest part of the
property is an excepted from the moratorium.
Franklin/No, actually the largest part of the undeveloped property that is there is right
now is the property that's owned by the Ruppert's.
Pfab/Right so but that they want that excluded.
Franklin/Well they do but that would be up to you to decide whether, if you decided to
exclude the Ruppert property, yes there wouldn't be any sense in doing this. What
I'm saying that technically, legally, you should not, can not include is the Cox
property which you will be considering setting a public heating on or considering
setting the public hearing on later this evening and the Southgate property which
already has been subject to a public hearing is in litigation right now so those two
small properties could not be part of the overall moratorium area. The Ruppert
property could even though they would argue they do not want it to be.
Pfab/What about the Buss property?
Franklin/The Buss property likewise because that has been subject to.
Pfab/(can't hear).
Franklin/But that's down zoned to RS the proposed down zone to (can't hear).
Pfab/So it appears to me all we're really going to cover is the Ruppert property.
Franklin/Largely yes, yes, there may be some properties on the west side of Harlocke
Street that are not fully developed to the RM-44.
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Pfab/So I mean if they, if they motrot a vigorous attack on our moratorium we may have
some problems.
Lehman/Well it's still our choice.
Franklin/Yes.
Pfab/I mean is it, is it legal that we can do this?
Ditkes/Yes.
Franklin/Yes you can institute a moratorium.
Pfab/All right let's do it.
Lehman/Is there an interest in pursuing the moratorium?
Dilkes/I think what Karin was suggesting is that we get the legislation drafted, put it in
front of you and then you can have that policy debate.
Lehman/I think that's a good suggestion because I really don't think that we're.
Vanderhoef/I'm not prepared to make that (can't hear).
Lehman/No but I do think that we that the arguments both pro and con should be
presented and at that point we can decide whether or not we wish to have a
moratorium. I don't know my suspicion is that that would, time wise, how long
would it take to prepare those sorts of?.
Dilkes/Well I think we'll get it on your next agenda.
Lehman/Okay that' s fine so we could expect that then in two weeks.
Dilkes/We may want to do an ordinance for them, we've not completely worked through
that, what form we want to do it in, but if we do do an ordinance for them there
may be a need for special meetings to get through it but we'll get back to you on
that.
Lehman/So I hear a saying proceed, we'll debate that.
Franklin/Okay.
Lehman/Lot 64-1A.
Franklin/Lot 64-1A
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Preferred Developer Selection for 64-1A (Item #12). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION
SELECTING A PREFERRED DEVELOPER FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT
OF URBAN RENEWAL PARCEL 64-1A.
Franklin/I guess at this point you have the memorandum from us with I hope the
information that you were after. The one thing that I do wish to stress is that all of
the tax information is an estimate, please do not take those as absolute numbers.
When the actual assessment is done of this project as to what the value is
whichever one is built it may not be the construction value, it may be, it is likely
to be less than the construction value, but what we did for purposes of this for
comparison is to use those construction numbers which are the only numbers we
really have right now to work with. But please pay careful attention to the
assumptions that are here and to the fact that this is just an estimate.
Pfab/Karin, assumptions were the same for all across (can't hear).
Franklin/Yes, well, they were generally the same across the board except I will point out
in a highlighting or bolding the assumptions for each group we went by what they
told us that is that the Moen Group said that the residential component would be
rental and that the Executive Hotel Group said that the residential component
would be condominiumized. Okay, and we have found from talking to Dan
Hudson that even if you rent a condominium it is still assessed as residential not
as commercial so the notion of the time share, time share I'm just using that
terminology of renting out the condo's would not likely change that tax profile.
Pfab/So what, I'm going to ask, this is a question to you. In other words if no matter if
they're condominiums whether they're rental and owned by the developer and
rented out or owned by an individual person that may occupy them.
Franklin/Or owned by an individual person or rented out.
Pfab/Right okay, that the tax, the assessment that we're trying to gain on but still only
come out to 54 percent as of (can't hear) time.
Franklin/Right.
Pfab/So in other words that reduces the amount of our tax base by 46 percent of those
units.
Champion/Correct.
Franklin/That's right, that's the difference.
Lehman/That's right.
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Kanner/One other question on assumptions, the, in the Moen proposal for the luxury
suites, you do not assume that people would stay there for more than 30 days is
that correct? If they do my assumption is.
Franklin/Right, I mean.
Kanner/My assumption is they don't pay hotel/motel tax.
Franklin/Right, there' s a number of things that we didn't do, we didn't do variations in
the occupancy, basically if they were going to be used as hotel rooms that it was
65 percent occupancy for both projects. You know whether that is true or not is
an argument that I think in the Moen figures are trying to make some kind of
argument about occupancy which I will let them explain during the formal
meeting if they wish to. But we just went 65 percent occupancy because you can
go through a probably infinite number of permutations with all of this and make
yourself dizzy trying to figure it out so we kind of had to land on some numbers
that we felt comfortable with and that we tried to treat both projects fairly. The
rate per night is what we were given by the proposers, that obviously is another
thing that could potentially vary and then could have an impact on occupancy so.
Pfab/I have another, have the individual developers felt comfortable with the numbers
that their fellow developers brought to the table as that?
Franklin/You'll need to ask them that.
Pfab/Okay.
Vanderhoef/Was there any attempt to get information similar to what is on the first page
of the memorandum, we have a list of potential businesses that might choose to
come in for a conference but what seems to be a glaring absence to me is
anything to do with the University of University Hospital.
Franklin/With the University, we tried, basically the response that we got from the
University was that they needed more conference space but they couldn't exactly
say how much or for what conferences. It was a micro response which is why we
didn't include it.
Vanderhoef/And nothing about continuing education and new opportunities within the
University setting?
Franklin/They couldn't give us any specifics Dee.
Vanderhoef/Okay then I'll just put out what I have heard, thank you.
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Franklin/That' s fine.
Lehman/Are there questions for Karin relative to this? Is the Council comfortable then
with taking this up at that formal meeting which will occur at 7:00?
Champion/Yes.
Wilburn/Yes.
Pfab/I'm not comfortable but I probably won't have enough votes to make that any
different.
Lehman/Well I mean if there are questions that you want to ask now.
Kanner/Yea what are you not comfortable with Irvin?
Pfab/Pardon, well it's, my point is what are our benefits when you take, if you don't get
paid for the lot and a big percentage of this is subject to the reduction of rental, or
residential property, what do we give up for what do we get? I mean I have
trouble making that work?
Vanderhoef/So your looking at two different projects and one' s more rental that will turn
up at (can't hear).
Pfab/Well I'm looking at them all across the board, I mean I think we have.
Franklin/What we get for the lot, it's a really difficult one to get a hold of at this stage of
the game because what we have been given by both proposers is the same thing.
Pfab/But there are four proposers.
Champion/We narrowed it down to two.
Lehman/We're only discussing two of them.
Franklin/Yea you narrowed it to two at your last meeting.
Lehman/Right.
Pfab/But if that means that somebody wants to buy the land for $250,000 versus $1 and
3/4 million I think that that's going to go into CDBG funds I think that is a very
important fact.
Champion/We've already made the decision to narrow it down to two Irvin.
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Pfab/Without any public input.
Champion/Well.
Pfab/The public has had no chances to discuss this.
Lehman/Irvin from the.
Vanderhoef/They did at the last meeting.
Pfab/No there was no discussion.
Vanderhoef/We.
Franklin/Yea there was.
Vanderhoef/It was on the agenda and we deferred it so anybody that had wanted to come
and talk about it as an agenda item last meeting could have.
Lehman/And still can tonight.
Vanderhoef/Certainly.
Franklin/We did have input at the last meeting.
Lehman/Right.
Wilbum/Wasn't the?
Franklin/I don't think you were here Irvin.
Pfab/Yes I was.
Wilbung The thing about the RFP was a, that was an item back when that was put out for
public discussion, the criteria, and I'll go back again to the statement I made last
time. If the over ride, if the number one criteria, or if the only criteria were
anyone of the, you know those criteria laid out then that probably should have said
then and that was a point where there was room for input from the public.
Kanner/Well it was said Ross but I think I get your point.
Wilburn/Yea I mean you know what I'm saying, what was passed, yea you got my point.
Lehman/Well we'll take that up a little later tonight. Next item.
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Nei~,hborhood Council Rental Housin~ Enforcement Proposal (IP 1 of 10/4/info.
packet)
Lehman/At our last work session, unknown to myself and I think the rest of the Council
we had Jerry was prepared to speak with us, we did not hear from him then,
there' s been a meeting since then between some of our staff folks and whatever
and I think Jerry's here tonight to give us some sort of report on what happened
there and I think we need then to discuss what we would like to do and what
direction we'd like to go and how we'd like to do it, Jerry.
Jerry Hansen/Mr. Mayor, because this is a multifaceted thing that we're proposing to you
and there are many neighborhood associations involved in this, I'd like to split my
time with Tim Walker tonight so he can present their views on this.
Lehman/Okay.
Tim Walker/Should I sign in for the work session?
Kanner/Yea.
Walker/Well what we didn't get a chance to do at the last work session was describe the
breadth and depth of the problem or problems in our neighborhoods so I can speak
more to the problems in a campus bounding neighborhood. We are fortunate that
we don't have the extreme problems that Jerry will talk about from his
neighborhood but we are not able to sleep with our windows open in the summer
time, or in the spring time, if it's nice out it's usually fairly loud outside. We have
properties that are grossly under maintained by their owners, they're rented out to
large numbers of people, they're frequently overlet and city staff is finds it very
difficult to prove overletting. So we have on our streets, six parking spaces taken
by one house which does not have off street parking and therefore should not have
more than three unrelated adults you know, there are six cars. So that's the kind
of problem that we're facing and it's largely a poor enforcement problem, another
effect of that overletting and of the poor enforcement of code and civil law is that
we have family owned homes that the family moves out, they have given up on
the neighborhood, they have left and it's very difficult for us to sell those homes
to other families. Families that would like to rent in neighborhoods near campus
find it difficult because the rents are so high, the rents are higher than a house
payment by far. Granted the landlords need to make a profit on their investments
but there are two ways to make that profit, one is to maintain the property so that
it holds it's value and grows in value along with the rest of the neighborhood, that
of course is what the rest of us as homeowners would like to see happen to the
neighborhood at large and it can't happen if properties are allowed to just be run
into the ground and mind of all their value. The reason families can't rent is that
the rents again are so high, I think they're so high because the landlords are
accustomed to being able to overlet their properties with impunity it's easy to not
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be detected so we need to give the city some tools that make that a detectable and
enforceable offense because it is really, it's at the core of many of the problems in
the neighborhoods, there' s just too many people there and it's a critical mass of
people that can get very loud for those of us who want to send our kids to school
well rested or go to work real rested. That's really all I have to say without
repeating myself.
Lehman/Okay.
Walker/Do you have any questions?
Champion/I guess I want to ask a question, you probably don't have the answer to. You
are assuming that landlords are overletting, it is difficult to prove, but it could be
that people who renting who are actually on the lease are letting other people to
stay there too.
Walker/The landlords should be aware of that, if they,re not aware of what's going on in
their properties who else can be aware of it? You know it shouldn't be the
neighbors job to call all the time.
Champion/No it shouldn't be.
Walker/There should be something, there should be realistic meaningful enforcement's
so that if a landlord gets caught at this, it's expensive enough for them that they
will never want to do it again. That's why we would like to see us you know for a
repeat offense eventually just loss of that rental permit.
Pfab/I think also that should be part of the agreement between the landlord and a tenant,
if the tenant is going to disobey the law the landlord has that built in or else he's.
Walker/Yes, that's.
Pfab/(can't hear) so to speak.
Walker/Another of the things we're calling for in our proposal is modeled on East
Lansing Michigan it's a big campus town, and they've addressed many of these
problems. What they do is they require a lease addendure, that the landlord and
the tenants have each signed that states among other things we realize that there
are only three legal occupants for this property, or whatever that number is so we
know they've signed it, the city has a copy on record, if they have more in there
then we know that they know they're on the wrong side ofthat issue. Sothat's,
yea we are asking for that.
Pfab/Very good.
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Karmer/Tim.
Walker/Yes.
Kanner/I like some of what your saying holding the landlord responsible for something.
My question is have you talked to, well in this state of Iowa it's way towards the
landlord versus the tenant, the tenant' s don't have rights that they have in other
states so there's certain things that only the state can do but perhaps in Iowa City
we can do some things, some power tenants and encourage tenant associations
perhaps. Has your group talked about those kind of things of how we can
empower tenants in the long term because I think that' s how we have to look at it.
Walker/Right.
Kanner/For a long term solution.
Walker/I agree and I would love to see the quality of life of tenants go up in this town, I
was a tenant for a lot of years and I lived in a lot of scurvy places, you know they
were what passed for apartments. We, yes we'd like to address that as part of this
too without making this so complex that it doesn't fly, we don't want to drag this
town. Is that an answer to the question you asked?
Karmer/Well I think you answered it, personally I would like to see stronger concern
about that issue of tenants.
Walker/Okay.
Kanner/And that's something that wasn't really addressed at the last meeting, tenant
involvement.
Walker/The concern you see reflected here is largely concern of people who come to the
neighborhood association meetings and you know it's a matter of representation
and numbers, and we have more homeowners that are up in arms than tenants who
are up in arms. And tenants unfortunately really don't have, as you say don't have
as much power, they may not want to stick their necks out, so yea if we can stick
our necks out for them that would be helpful too.
Kanner/Well let' s think of how we can do that maybe in this process.
Walker/Sure, okay, thank you.
Lehman/Thank you Tim.
Jerry Hansen/Steven one of the things we have talked about is posting information inside
each building as to who the contact people are if it's a management company or if
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it's the landlord itself. Right now it's very difficult to ascertain in some buildings
who actually gets called when there are problems so one of the things we'd like to
see is posting of that information in the building. Tim alluded to a few a the
problems in his neighborhood and I guess a whole list popped into my head that
he didn't mention like the vandalism, the loud houses, the breaking bottles out in
the streets, the vomit, I mean there's all kinds of things that have driven people
out of these neighborhoods. And you know when I think of Wetherby and the
problems that we have in our neighborhood, when we started three years ago with
Wetherby we had 30 people that regularly, every time we had a Wetherby meeting
man these people were there. You know we're down to six now because of
attrition for the same reason that they have moved out of our neighborhood. And
how do you replace these good folks that want to get involved? You don't, you
know we were treated to diminished property values in the last evaluation, I don't
think that's fair. The proposal we put in front of you is, it's not about beating up
on landlords, it's not about beating up on tenants, it's not about beating upon the
city, it's about personal responsibility for your actions and I guess that' s our
bottom line, I mean we have open gang activity going on in Wetherby, we have
people standing in the parking lots of some of these buildings smoking dope and
nothing is being done, nothing. People with assault rifles in their cars, we got
very fortunate a few weeks ago and had one of those incidents stopped. But
we've had several that didn't get stopped before that. And I just think that this
ordinance is about standing up for the rights of the vast majority of the law
abiding citizens in this town and I think we deserve a safe and tranquil place to
live and the city needs tools to do this and these tools are in front you. I just don't
look at this as being discriminatory in housing, I see this as standing up for the
rights of the people who want to follow the rules in this town. Now I'd like to pass
a list arotmd of people we would recommend to be on this committee and.
Kanner/Jerry is we the Neighborhood Council?
Hansen/The Neighborhood Council yes, and I'd like to say this needs to be done sooner
rather than later, the faster we can get this committee together and the smaller we
can keep this committee, the more we're going to be productive and the quicker
the neighborhoods are going to be satisfied. This is decades worth of frustration
built up in people that has finally come to a head and we are really willing to fight
for this so we would recommend the people on this list, I'm sure since we've
proposed this, there' s all kinds of people who are crawling out of the woodwork
to have their recommendations now and that's fine, I mean I'm prepared to work
with whoever this committee is set up with. But what we need is action now and
we need results.
Pfab/I think one of the things you mentioned and I think, I'm going to say it in different
words than you did but I think the people who are obeying the law in these
neighborhoods have a fight to feel safe.
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Walker/Yes and their voice has gone unheard.
Pfab/Right, and I mean they're intimidated, a lot of them are intimidated to speak up.
Hartsen/Many have moved out of apartment complexes in the Wetherby Friends and
Neighbors Area because they are afraid of their life, and this is not a joke, I mean
this has happened.
Pfab/Well you still have an unsolved murder there.
Hansen/Absolutely.
Pfab/And that was just a case somebody was, didn't take their intimidation or somebody
misunderstood something.
Hansen/Yes.
Pfab/It was even the wrong, I think it was the case of a totally mistaken identify of who
did what but apparently one of the neighbors had something to do with it.
Hansen/Well I can't address that Irvin I really don't know. All I know is.
Pfab/I'm just saying it's real.
Hansen/Yea it is real. Sid Jackson from the police department has told me last week that
gang activity is more prevalent in Wetherby than it has ever been.
Lehman/Well Jerry I think we hear you and I think what we need to do is set up with a
committee that will work with that' s acceptable to everybody and I have some
ideas which I'll share with the Council and then we can discuss this but I like, but
I think your right it's something that needs to get going as soon as possible. What
I would suggest is that the Council contact the Neighborhood Associations by
letter, encouraging them, or asking them a person to represent that neighborhood
on that committee so that we as a Council will not be making the representation,
you as a neighborhood will recommend the person you want to represent yourself
which I think is more important than Council picking people.
(END OF 01-91 SIDE ONE)
Hansen/Excuse me are you talking about after all the neighborhood associations have
recommended someone we choose from that or all 28 be on the committee?
Lehman/Well no, no, well I don't, my suspicion, and we're just talking here, we've got a
couple three neighborhoods or four whatever that seem to be the most, the
problems seem to be pretty much centered in those neighbors, if there wants to be
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more neighborhoods that' s fine but I think the two or three or four are the ones
that really want representatives there, I don't think a committee of 28 people from
neighborhoods alone is probably going to be a very good working, a very good
committee.
Hansen/Yea it won't work.
Lehman/Right so I guess my suggestion would be that we ask these Neighborhood
Associations, three or four to appoint someone to be on that committee and we
approach landlords, and ask landlords to appoint someone to that committee so we
don't choose that person, they do.
Hansen/(can't hear).
Lehman/We need someone representing tenants and if there's a tenant association that
would recommend a tenant the University of Iowa Housing Department certainly
could have a representation on this because I think they do represent most of our
tenants are students. I think we need perhaps nonvoting, but we need someone
from our legal department, someone from our police department, we need
someone from Housing Inspection Services to be there to answer questions but
not to necessarily form the ordinance. I believe a committee like that needs to sit
down and identify the problems which you've just described, you already have an
ordinance from Davenport which may very well work, we also have one from I
think Green Bay or not.
Vanderhoef/East Lansing.
Hansen/East Lansing.
Lehman/East Lansing, to me a committee like that has a possibility of working fairly
well.
Hansen/Well I can save you some time on the neighborhoods, because if myself, Tim
Walker and Ann Freerks are on there, that represents three different
neighborhoods of the four.
Lehman/And my suspicion is that those neighbors would, that would be acceptable to
those neighbors.
Hansen/If you wanted one more it would be Grantwood and that would probably be Jane
Klitzka.
Lehman/Well until we want, maybe it is what we want but I think it's going to be all one.
Hansen/Yea.
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Lehman/Discussion. And I have, you also need a chairman, I've taken the liberty to
think of a chairman which I have the tremendous amount of confidence in.
Pfab/(can't hear). Can I suggest something first? (can't hear). Wouldn't it be better for
that committee to appoint their own chairman?
Lehman/Well except wait until who I hear who I think might be a good prospect.
Pfab/Well.
Lehman/Dee Norton is a former Council person.
Champion/Oh he'd be wonderful.
Lehman/Who's a very level headed person who I think would be a tremendous mediator,
I know when he sat on the Council he was a tremendous person and Dee would do
this and I think Dee would do a wonderful job, but that would be just my
recommendation though. Council discussion.
O'Dounell/Well I want Jerry's opinion on that.
Pfab/Yes.
Hansen/Well we recommend Hillary Sale or William Buss, neither one are really active
in Neighborhood Associations tight now and we feel that their very neutral but
they really understand the problems that we're going through, and that' s just our
recommendation I mean we will work with whoever is put in place but this is
something that needs to move forward and it needs to move forward now.
Lehman/I agree with that.
O'Donnell/But there's been a substantial amount of work done on this.
Lehman/Oh yea.
O'Dormell/And a group of Neighborhood Associations have gotten together and
recommended these people.
Hansen/Well you know this has been a frustrating process because for two years we've
been making proposals and yet all the time we keep heating bring something to us
that's in place and working and we bring something that' s in place and working
and now we're going to tear it apart and make our own anyway.
Lehman/You may not.
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Champion/Well we have to tear it apart and make our own.
Lehman/Well their going to have that job, they may decide to recommend it exactly the
way it (can't hear).
Champion/But why we, I don't mean us, I mean we the commtmity.
Wilburn/I think that, that I would add that, Jerry and Tim I'm glad that you all recognize
the importance of having some different representation on this group you've got.
Hansen/It's the only way that things are going to work.
Wilburn/Yea and if you'd let me finish please, you know some of the concerns that I
share from you, it's important to make sure that the Davenport ordinance and any
other ordinance that you look at, those are geared and tailored towards issues and
problems in their commtmities and it's important whatever is finally decided
upon, it's tailored towards the problems and issues in this community and you
know yourselves have identified there's some slight variation between
neighborhoods as to what some of the presenting problems are and if it ends up as
being some type of ordinance you know that's fine, great, super if it gets at the
heart of the problem that we're talking about. Or if the answer is Council giving
direction to appropriate staff departments you've got to step up enforcement of
what's existing on books, whatever is decided is going to be most effective I
would certainly support.
Hansen/Well I'm glad to hear the enforcement because without enforcement, without the
city being willing to do this it's just so many more words on paper.
Wilburn/And that' s why I think it's important to have some of the department
representatives there so that if there is an enforcement problem with what we've
got on the books, and as you all work through the process, if that's a problem that
we need to say do this then I would rather we say do that as opposed to going too
far and drafting something which may or may not address the specific problems
and give us some a consequence that we wouldn't want to see.
Pfab/I think I mentioned to you before and I'll repeat it again Ross, you're right, the
object of this is that the people that live in these neighborhoods have a right to be
safe and secure, the tenants, not the people that are breaking the law, the other
people that live in those neighborhoods, and whatever it takes to do that has to be
done I believe. Because there's a lot of people that just get up and move, I've
been working on this for quite a while and it's really sad because like Jerry said
the problems are there but they're not being enforced.
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Wilburn/All I said Irvin was as long as we're not, we don't put something in place that' s
going to cause some unforeseen problems for someone who, there' s a range of
criteria in the Davenport ordinance that I would want to make sure we are not
trampling on some rights and that's all I'm saying, we can discuss and debate it at
another time when the committee gets done working on it, you've said twice now
what your concerns are so I hear what your saying.
Pfab/Okay.
Wilburn/Okay.
Champion/Ross are you also saying that you think we should have someone from our
legal staff on this committee?
Hansen/Absolutely.
Pfab/A City Attorney.
Hansen/Absolutely.
Champion/Right, oh right, and well I don't know if it has to be the City Attorney but an
appointee of some kind and oh I forgot what else I was going to say.
Hansen/Could I just? You know five years ago when Davenport put their ordinance in I
used to hear on the news an awful lot about the gang activity going on in
Davenport and the murders that they had and things and yet I hardly ever hear
about that anymore, I mean.
Champion/Maybe everybody' s moved out of Davenport.
Hansen/No, I've talked to Mike Ferris in Davenport and he's said that this has worked
extremely well.
Champion/Jerry just remind me, what happened with your PiN money for the extra
police protection.
Hansen/It's ongoing.
Champion/Is that helping at all during?
Hansen/Well, quite frankly it's a little frustrating to me right now because I, we set up a
schedule with the police for a two month block of time, and I asked at that time
that the officers come back to us and tell us if they feel that the time is being spent
in the right places, if they feel that there would be another location that would
work better to help us rather than the ones we had laid out. At the end of that first
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block of time I had to go to the police department and get the next schedule
because they didn't send it to me, they didn't give me back any input as to what I
had asked for, so when I got the second schedule finally because I had to go get it
I asked again for that input, I still haven't got that input and now we're at the end
of that schedule and I haven't got the one that's coming up to go through the end
of October here. I mean it's just like we're not here and that's frustrating to me
and I don't know whether that money has been effectively spent or not because I
can't get the interaction from the police that I've asked for.
Pfab/Jerry, I think there was a large land, a manager over there that had requested a
meeting with the police chief and he requested that I be present and the police
chief said he didn't want me there but he would report, I got a report from him
and the other one, he said that supposedly things were worked out well I just got a
call from that person again and they said they wanted another meeting because
things aren't moving, the same thing your saying, the cooperation just doesn't
seem to be there.
Hansen/Well I know that these continuing rumors continue to fly about calling the police
and getting police response in our neighborhood. I've heard building managers
tell me that they were told by the police not to call unless it's a 911 emergency.
And yet they had real issues on their hands, they had people in their parking lots
that they needed to have removed and this is the rumor okay not that this has
happened but to get that information for me is very difficult and I think that even
if it's right or wrong the fact that the rumors floating casts a bad shadow on the
whole thing.
Pfab/I was told by the people that made those calls that that's true.
Dilkes/Can we stick to the topic?
Lehman/Yea I was going to say why don't we get this committee set up because these are
the kinds of discussion that the committee needs to, what's the pleasure of the
Council?
Karmer/Well I just want to comment on the composition of the committee, I heard from
you and Tim sounds like two problems of groups of people that are causing
problems, one would typically describe as college age kids being rowdy and
alcohol problems and things with over crowding in one neighborhood. And then
in your neighborhood your talking about other people possibly gang related
activities, violent activities, it could be some of the same people so I would say
that with the first group we definitely need to have a couple people that are
college age, one I would recommend Nick Klenske, to ask him to be a
representative or for him to pick a representative as the UI (can't hear) president,
two look at other college age youth that are renters perhaps, I think we need at
least two because it is heavily, it seems to be heavily balanced so far the
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committee that's proposed in favor of home owners and landlords so I think we
need that. And then in your neighborhood and it's everywhere but especially in
your neighborhood I hear problems of racism and so I think we need to make sure
that we include people of color and other minorities into this committee, we have
to make an effort, and possibly some gang members, we have to go and get one or
two of those people to be involved in this committee and be part of the discussion.
Jerry you give a frown, it's not something that' s impossible, it's something that
you put resources into and the city might need to put those resources into work
and to get rid of gang activity and this is one step in the right direction I believe.
Hansen/I do frown at you Steve.
Kanner/Right, and Jerry I think the only way we're going to get beyond just having
landlords and homeowners talk and really get to a long term solution is to get
these people that are affected. You know 1 go into your neighborhood and hear
people talking about those people, and code words they're using for minority
people and vice versa I hear too and I think we really need to get to the root of it
and if we're going to work on the racism and the other problems that are taking
place in the city we have to make an effort to get people that are affected and
involved and I would ask that we make that effort as a Cotmcil to have them be
part of that committee that's going to work on this.
O'Donnell/I will forego putting gang members on here and I think you've done a great
job here Jerry and I, they've got representatives from police department, city
attorney, large apartments, small apartments, University of Iowa tenants and
Realtors, and I'm prepared to go with one of your recommendations for chair on
this, these are people that are out in the neighborhoods and understand and live
with the problem.
Champion/I am too.
O'Donnell/So let's do this I think it's a good idea.
Vanderhoef/I looked at this list, yes and I started looking at categories because I heard a
comment that this is mostly homeowners and so forth, if I look at the top I would
suggest that we take three members for the neighborhood, three from the city, one
from Housing and Inspections, one from the police department and one from the
attorney' s office, then I'd go with three with the landlords and one of those could
be the Realtor or add the University in there if you want to put it in that category
and three tenants. I think that would balance this out pretty well and that would
be 3, 6, 9, 12, it would be 13th one there and I really like the idea of Dee Norton
for chair.
Atkins/Ernie can I comment on?
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Lehman/Yes.
Atkins/While I would look forward to active staff involvement, police, city, HIS, I would
prefer we sit to the side.
Lehman/Oh I don't think they should be voting members, staff.
Vanderhoef/No.
Atkins/I mean call upon us for resources, call upon us to talk about issues as we see
them, I don't believe the staff is shy and I'll certainly offer their comments but I
think the committee needs to be made up substantially (can't hear).
Champion/I think we all agree with that.
Pfab/I think there needs to be some kind of rules and regulations to the committee some
kind of a structure here.
Champion/They'll take care of it.
O'Donnell/That's what they're doing.
Pfab/Is that?
Hansen/That' s why we wanted an impartial chair?
Pfab/Right.
Champion/Right.
Pfab/So in other words this is starting, it's not from scratch because it's been a long time
coming hem but I think if we're going to turn it over to the neighborhood to do it I
think we ought to step back and say you've got good suggestions here take it and
run with it and maybe report back in a week or two.
Hansen/Well yea, but the mason that it hasn't been to you long ago is because we wanted
to keep it a neighborhood initiative, I mean we know what' s going on.
O'Donnell/We have a good idea.
Pfab/We ought to keep our nose out of it for a while until you get organized.
O'Donnell/We have to remember that.
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Lehman/Well I really, I really feel and obviously Council can do as they choose but I
believe that Mr. Norton would be a tremendous chair for you folks, he's a very
even keeled, decent sort of person that I think would represent both the interests of
the neighborhood, the neighbors, the tenants, the landlords, we come up,
whatever you come up, or whatever you come up with has to work.
Hansen/Right.
Lehman/And if it's perceived that this committee is set up by an interest group that really
wants to get after tenants or after landlords or whatever that' s not going to fly, I
mean we need a committee that is even keeled, fair, there's a lot of things to be
considered, passing an ordinance that doesn't work is worse than no ordinance,
passing an ordinance that we can't enforce is worse than no ordinance. I think
this could be a really good committee and I think the framework that you've laid
out is an excellent framework, I mean I think it, that' s a total of it appears to be
about 12 people which is about as big as a committee can be and still function.
And out of those 12 only 9 would be able to vote and you take off the three staff
people but I think they would be great resource folks.
Hansen/Well we need their input as we discuss.
Lehman/Oh absolutely, no I agree, I agree.
Vanderhoef/But voting people would be 3 from the neighborhoods, 3 from the landlords,
3 tenants, Board of Realtors and a chair which would be an 11 member committee
which is a manageable size committee.
Pfab/I have a point here, how long have you been working on this?
Hansen/Two years.
Pfab/Okay and we just told them that we think they did a good job, I say let's step back
and let you go ahead with it and not decide who we're going to put in chair or who
else we're going to put on it, let' s give a run, I mean you've put a lot of effort in it
you have a lot at stake.
Hansen/Well that would be up to you.
Pfab/Well that' s point.
Lehman/What' s your pleasure folks?
Vanderhoef/I liked your idea of letting the landlords choose their own and make it three,
I like the neighborhoods choosing their own and that' s three, I like the idea of
three tenants, that might be a little tougher to get a handle on how do get those
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chosen. I do like the idea of your Board of Realtors there and a chair and then
have the resource people on the outside which then what I total up here is we
would have 10 people plus a chair which makes it an uneven number of 11 which
I think is a very manageable size committee, I'd take some suggestions on how to
choose or get a group together for the tenants.
Pfab/I would say that would be something the committee could put together, I would just
say give them the authority and let them, even if they have to report back in a
month or two and see if it meets with our approval.
Karmer/I would think we should do it Irvin, I think it's already waited for homeowners
and people landlords and tenants already are in a position of weakness compared
to landlords and I think we need to be proactive in finding some strong folks, I
think we approach Nick Klenske and others I think that' s willing to do that.
Champion/I think your going to have trouble getting three tenants because they're usually
the tenants that were having, I hate to say this, probably aren't here long enough to
really (can't hear).
Kanner/I think I could find three tenants who would want to do this very easily Cormie I
think there's a lot of people that are renters that have concerns, including myself
as a renter with some of the same problems that Jerry and Tim described.
Hansen/Steven who are the homeowners that you see on this list?
Vanderhoef/Yea.
Kanner/What?
Hansen/Who are the homeowners that you see on this list?
Kanner/People representing, we're talking about three Realtors.
Vanderhoef/No we're not talking 3 Realtors.
Kanner/You said Realtors Association.
Vanderhoeff I said three from the landlords association.
Karmer/Okay that's three there, with a perspective and then you did not say anything
about the Realtors.
Vanderhoef/I said one for Realtor.
Kanner/Four and I know some of you neighborhood people might be renters.
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(can't hear).
Kanner/And what about the other three.
Hansen/There's only two others here, Tim and Ann, Ann owns, Tim do you own? Tim
owns.
Kanner/William Buss.
Vanderhoef/No, that's not, that was a suggestion for chair.
Hansen/He's an owner, he's the suggestion yes for chair or Hillary.
Kanner/Right, that's what i'm saying it still seems pretty heavily weighed.
Vanderhoef/Well only three neighborhoods so out of that top 5 there would only be three
of the top five up there, and the chair would stand alone if your looking at this list.
And one from each neighborhood.
Kanner/That's why I think three is a good idea and we could get three tenants.
Vanderhoef/That's what I suggested.
Champion/I don't think we need to get those three tenants.
Vanderhoef/No we don't.
Hansen/I think that you know the homeowners have a real stake in these because they've
got their hard earned money invested in that money, I'm thinking seriously right
now about buying the building that I live in and I'm wondering how much of a
risk I'm taking by buying that piece of propeay.
Vanderhoef/You know Jerry we've got people in the managerships of homes but they
don't necessarily live in them so they have a different kind of a stake than a
regular homeowner so I don't see that we've got an overload of homeowners.
Lehman/Well it seems, the question that I seem to be hearing, is how do we find tenants,
what's the process we go through to find three tenants to put on this committee?
Hansen/I would make a suggestion that we contact the Broadway Neighborhood Center
and have them choose the tenant.
Champion/And there's a lot of tenants that are on the north side that are probably
concerned about some of this too, that's a good idea.
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Vanderhoef/And then what about the Pheasant Ridge?
Hansen/Pheasant Ridge.
Vanderhoef/One from each.
Kanner/Why not Nick Klenske.
Vanderhoef/I don't know Nick Klenske, I don't.
Karmer/He's the president of the UI Student Government.
Champion/He might be different than a tenant.
Hansen/Does he live in one of these neighborhoods we're talking about?
Kanner/Let' s ask, he represents the students at UI who a lot of us are saying that's part of
the problem there are students.
Hansen/We're not saying that, we're talking about personal responsibility here, whether
it be a tenant or God, I mean, this has nothing to do with racism, it has nothing to
do with picking out one person, this is about personal responsibility whether it's
the tenant, the landlord, the city, whoever is going to be here.
Dilkes/Sue Dulek who is the attorney on my staff who will be staff this group has years
of experience with tenant landlord law as an attorney at Legal Services, she
suggested when we were talking about the makeup of the committee that one
place would be student government.
Lehman/So we ask for one appointment from Student Senate, that' s pretty simple, okay
we've got one, where do we get another, we need two more tenants.
Vanderhoef/The neighborhood centers are a good place to start, we have one on the west
side of the river and we have one down to the south, that sort of covers a wide
geographic.
Lehman/All right which two?
Champion/Oh there is a tenants association?
Anna Buss/Tenants Association through the University of Iowa.
Hansen/We have them on the list.
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Lehman/That's UI Tenant Association.
Champion/Yea we have it.
Lehman/Okay we need more.
Pfab/Okay I have a thought here, go ahead if your looking for another tenant but what
about the people that do, I'm thinking Greater Iowa City Housing Fellowship or
Iowa City Housing whatever, I'm drawing a blank for words, just the office down
here. I mean these people work, these people have developed some very good
ways on how to make that work. Does that make any sense to you? I mean I
think that there was.
Hansen/I'm wide open.
Pfab/Yea they work all the time with tenant landlord problem and I mean that's
everyday that's what they do and it's not confrontational, it's negotiation and
mediating, and so I think that would be the only suggestion that I would put here
as part of a mix here now I don't know if you take somebody out of them or what
but that would be a suggestion that I would have, because of their ongoing
everyday interaction with tenants and landlords.
Hansen/Okay and the one other thing we would need is a starting date and stuff for this
thing.
Pfab/It's 6:00.
Lehman/Immediately.
Champion/As soon as you want to.
Lehman/Well we need to find one other as near as I can tell, we need to find one other.
Hansend Well I know that the Broadway Neighborhood Center has an advisory
committee and I'm sure they could give you a tenant, and there must be something
that mirrors that over at Pheasant Ridge.
Champion/I'll bet the Northside Neighborhood Association could come up with a tenant
from their end of town which would have whole different problems than your end
of town would.
Pfab/Okay how could we work and still come out here and I'm supposing that you have
no problem or you think that the idea either the Greater Iowa City Housing
Fellowship or whatever the, I keep forgetting the, they keep changing the name, I
can't keep up with it, the City Housing Authority.
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Lehman/That's good.
Pfab/Okay if one or them if you get somebody from one of those groups?
Hansen/Yea or we can recommend somebody from the Noahside, that' s.
Pfab/Yea I mean they wouldn't be tenants but where would you fit them in? Are they
landlords? They're not large apartments.
Lehman/They would be tenants.
Champion/We want to get a tenant, we don't want to get another representative from the
city on hem.
Kanner/I think with the two neighborhood associations, we've got two organized places
that have a lot of people who are tenants but the UISG president, I think those are
three good people.
Champion/Perfect.
Lehman/Is that acceptable? A tenant from the noahside, a tenant from the Broadway
area, one from the Student Senate, the three people from the neighborhood
association, a small apartment owner, a large and a small and I see Vanderwoude
has volunteered, somebody from the Realtors and three people from the city staff
that would sit in on an advisory capacity, all you need is a chairman.
Pfab/I would make a suggestion and maybe, I'm not sure what the Board of Realtors
representative would do there as much as someone from either Greater Iowa City
Housing Fellowship or Iowa, I think that' s where one of those people should
come, I'm not sure what the Realtors part is here.
Walker/The Realtors have a stake.
Champion/Oh you've got to talk in the microphone.
Walker/The Realtors have both a state and a responsibility, the stake is to maintain the
neighborhoods property values, and the responsibility is to do property sales that
are within allo~ved uses for those properties. We had a case on the noahside this
year where someone tried to sell a property for a completely unallowed use so we
believe that the Realtors would have relevant input and we'd like a Realtors
representative to come away from this committee and tell the rest of the Realtor
community this is going on.
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Pfab/All fight, okay, before you go away, is there place for either the Housing Authority
or the Housing Fellowship?
Champion/It's big enough.
Lehman/Well we've got enough on the committee.
Champion/We've got enough on the committee.
O'Dormell/I think the committee is fine.
Lehman/Who do you want to chair this committee? Council, Jerry.
O'Donnell/I would like them to decide.
Pfab/Let them decide.
Hansen/We'll decide.
Lehman/All right then I would suggest that you get together with whoever your
chairperson is going to be and get this group of folks together as quickly as
possible. I mean already we know who some of the folks are going to be, I
believe that we would be very happy to assist you with a letter to the student
government for example, anything our staff can do to help you fine. You will be
able to determine rather together as quickly who the staff people will be here that
will sit on that committee.
Atkins/Ernie.
Lehman/Yes.
Atkins/Just a gut reaction that this is a pretty complex undertaking, I'd like the staff at
least begin my contacts with talking with Jerry and Tim. I mean we can prepare
letters, we can do all of this, we can get a list of names and so forth, but it's got to
have some administrative focus, when are we going to call meetings?
Lehman/Sit down with Steve, call and make an appointment and get it all set up.
Atkins/You can tell, if I have your permission I'll get with Tim and Jerry, I'll staff this
and then we'll get the thing going particularly with Sue' s involvement somebody
from (can't hear).
Dilkes/Should we put a resolution on your October 23 agenda establishing the
committee?
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Wilbum/That's probably a good idea.
Champion/Yes.
Atkins/In the meantime we can press ahead with it but just there would be a confirming
resolution.
Dilkes/If you are formally establishing this committee and if you are asking a
recommendation on policy it will be subject to the open meetings law.
Lehman/All right.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Wilburn/IfI could ask, I just kind of tossed around Ernie's idea about Dee Norton, I hope
(can't hear) but I guess I would just thinking of what he might add to the group
would be, thinking back he was on Council when you all were wrestling with.
Arkins/Disorderly house.
Wilbum/Disorderly house thingy and so in terms of any obstacles or strengths you might
need to draw upon, if it is an ordinance that you wish to come up with he might
have some inside.
Hansen/Both chairs that we've recommended for this I believe are constitutional lawyers.
Wilburn/Oh, I'm thinking in terms of someone who's had to go through sitting on this
side.
Hansend Political process.
Wilbum/Political process that' s right.
Champion/Political process right.
Wilburn/Come up with whoever you wish, I'm just throwing that out it might be a good
representation.
Atkins/Another suggestion might be what about a former council member being a
member of the committee.
Lehman/Well that's.
Atkins/I mean just name a council, a former council member.
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Pfab/I tried to put one more on they said there was too many.
Lehman/It might be (can't hear).
Atkins/Good point.
Pfab/Okay now let me ask you this, do we want, is there a, do we want a report in the
sense of, is there a way to, for us to know what this committee is doing?
Lehman/I think we're going to have a real good idea in a week.
Atkins/I will get together with Jerry and Tim, we'll get this all put together, you'll get a
summary memo laying out everything you need to know and then you can go.
Pfab/Okay that' s fine.
Dilkes/The first thing, the first thing we need is we need to know who' s on the
committee.
Atkins/We understand that.
Dilkes/So that we can do the resolution of appointing the committee on the 23rd.
Atkins/I'm not real sure, yea I'm not real sure.
Dilkes/I understand your, somebody is going to tell us that so we can, your going to tell
us that.
Atkins/I'll meet with these folks, get that put together, get something to you then you can
vote it up or down as you see fit.
Dilkes/Okay.
Vanderhoef/Okay, I just have a thought, when you talking about doing an ordinance, I
want to be real clear that this is an ad hoc committee that has a.
Dilkes/I'm talking about doing a resolution.
Vanderhoef/Okay your talking about doing a resolution, even so in writing the resolution
is that this is a committee established for creating a certain report and then the
committee will be dissolved.
Dilkes/Right, that's the way I envision it.
Vanderhoef/Well I just want to be sure that everyone is understand.
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Hansen/Please.
Vanderhoef/(can't hear).
Dilkes/All your volunteers might disappear if it's otherwise yea.
Kanner/I'm going to throw out two other possible names for chairs that I think would be
good, one would be Monique DiCarlo of the Womens Resource and Action
Center, she's a great facilitator, I think she's got her head in a lot of different
places in the community and would be very valuable, and for former council
member Karen Kubby I think is a very good facilitator also and very good at
group process.
Atkins/Can we consider, or at least I'd like to be able to think you might consider we
may wish to hire a facilitator, a non member, I mean someone independent of
that' s just there to help steer us through.
Lehman/Well I think that's (can't hear).
Atkins/I mean your going to need some kind of a small budget but I would think that if
we had, the facilitator idea has some merit but usually an effective facilitator can't
be part of the discussion and the debate, needs to be removed from it yea.
Pfab/I would suggest that see what they come up with for, that would be my suggestion
and I would like to take this time to thank you and I know there are other people
who worked very hard on this.
Hansen/A lot of other people.
Pfab/Some of them are not putting their head up.
O'Donnell/Good job.
Lehman/Thank you guys, appreciate it.
Champion/You might need a facilitator along the way.
Lehman/If you do let us know. You know folks we're going to reconvene in 27 minutes,
and we need to grab a sandwich and so we're going to skip Council Time until
after the formal meeting so.
Vanderhoef/Good.
Lehman/Thank you.
Adjoumed 6:24 PM
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