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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-10-22 Transcription October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 1 October 22, 2001 Special Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn, Pfab, Karmer Staff: Atkins, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, O'Malley, McCafferty, Boothroy, Tallman TAPES: 01-95 SIDE TWO; 01-96 BOTH SIDES; 01-97 BOTH SIDES Plannin~ & Zonin~ A. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR NOVEMBER 13 ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS-8) TO HISTORIC PRESERVATION OVERLAY (RS-8/OHP) FOR PROPERTIES WITHIN THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD TO ESTABLISH THE LONGFELLOW HISTORIC DISTRICT. (REZ01-00019) Franklin/The first few items are setting public hearings for November 13. The first one is to rezone from RS-8 to RS-8/OHP, thank you, the Longfellow Historic District. B. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR NOVEMBER 13 ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE FROM MEDILFM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS-8) TO CONSERVATION DISTRICT OVERLAY (RS-8/OCD) FOR PROPERTIES WITHIN THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD TO ESTABLISH THE CLARK STREET CONSERVATION DISTRICT (REZ01- 00019) Franklin/The next item is to rezone from RS-8 to RS-8/OCD the Clark Street Conservation District. C. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR NOVEMBER 13 ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS-8) TO CONSERVATION DISTRICT OVERLAY (RS-8/OCD) FOR PROPERTIES WITHIN THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD TO ESTABLISH THE DEARBORN STREET CONSERVATION DISTRICT. (REZ01-00019) Franklin/And then the third item there which is related to rezone for the Dearborn Street Conservation District. Kanner/Karin. Franklin/Yes. Karmer/Could we get info on at our next packet on Thursday? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 2 Franklin/Oh on Thursday. Kanner/Yea, I'd like to have a little time. Franklin/Ahead of time. Kanner/To look it over and some big issues. Franklin/Okay. D. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTiNG A PUBLIC HEARING FOR NOVEMBER 13 ON AN ORDiNANCE TO VACATE 11,800 SQUARE FEET OF UNDEVELOPED KIRKWOOD AVENUE RIGHT-OF-WAY LOCATED SOUTH OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST PARKING LOT ON 1320 KIRKWOOD AVENUE. (VAC01-00005) Franklin/Okay Item D is setting a public hearing November 13 on an ordinance to vacate a portion of the undeveloped Kirkwood Avenue right of way for Church of Christ so they can expand their parking lot. Kanner/I had a question on that Karin, are we going to be selling that or just giving them an easement? Franklin/We will be conveying it to them. Kanner/What are they offering right now? Franklin/I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. Dilkes/You know, what we typically, I don't know that that has been worked out, we don't, our typical procedure is not to complete the vacation until. Franklin/The conveyance. Dilkes/The conveyance, the terms of the conveyance are (can't hear). Kanner/Right, so I'm trying to get a sense of what their offering to put it all together, look at it together. Franklin/To determine your decision on the vacation? Kanner/Yea. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 3 Franklin/Okay I'll just make a note to try to have some of that information for you before the November 12th work session. Okay. And you'll still have three readings of the ordinance to vacate and we won't do the third until the conveyance is ready. Vanderhoef/And we'll have P & Z minutes for that, because it was discussed in a later meeting. Franklin/Yea. E. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 3.07 ACRES FROM MEDIUM DENSITY MULTIFAMILY, RM-20, TO MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RS-8, LOCATED AT 747 W. BENTON STREET. (REZ01-00013) Franklin/Okay Item E is a public hearing on the rezoning of approximately 3.07 acres from RM-20 to RS-8, that' s the medium density multifamily to medium density single family at 747 W. Benton Street. This has been requested by the property owners who are moving from this property but have the desire to preserve this property essentially in the state that it's in and attempt to limit the future development of the property. There are topographic limitations to this property in that it drops off to the south in a wooded hillside, it is RS-8 to the immediate east of this property, that RS-8 is for two single family residences to the east. A couple of reasons to look at this had to do with the traffic that would be generated with RM-20 versus RS-8, your going to have less traffic on Benton Street, this is, at this point in Benton Street this is an area where access to Benton Street is an issue and it is the desire of the property owners to do this. The Planning & Zoning Con'nnission recorrkmended by vote of 7-0 to rezone the property, the staff recommended approval also. Your did have some input at your last formal meeting from the property owners not immediately, whoops, not immediately to the east, well they are to the east of the southerly portion of the property, the Ruppert Property. Atkins/Karin there's nothing on the. Dilkes/Karin there' s nothing. Franklin/Oh, well. Vanderhoef/We visualize well. Franklin/It was up there before wasn't it? Lehman/(can't hear). Wilburn/It's a map on 120, 120, 121. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 4 Lehman/We are experiencing temporary difficulties. Champion/No show. Franklin/I am dumbfounded. O'Donnell/Irvin you didn't unplug it did you when you were (can't hear)? Franklin/No. Pfab/I didn't think so. O'Donnell/You did on the (can't hear). Pfab/I was over there. Lehman/There we are. Pfab/It was you Mike. O'Dormell/I had a feeling Irvin. Franklin/Okay, here we are, this is the Buss property a long narrow piece. Immediately to the east are a couple of lots that are single family and are zoned, this is all zoned RS-8 here right now. These are used as single family, this is the area that we purchased for park land recently and then this property here is owned by the Ruppert's and it was Mary Hitchcock representing the Ruppert family that spoke to you at your last formal meeting. I guess ifthere's any questions I'll take those but. Lehman/Karin, Karin, the where it says Miller Orehard on the map that is not RS-8, is that correct? That is. Franklin/Technically it should be P because it's park but I don't know that we've rezoned it yet. Lehman/No, no, no, where the words are (can't hear). Franklin/That is RS-8. Lehman/That is RS-8, and then the property next to Miller Avenue is also RS-8? Franklin/Yes this is all RS-8. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 5 Lehman/I see so that' s consistent with the rest of the zoning map, I see, thank you. Karmer/Karin I had a question for you, the house is suppose to be historic, what are the qualities that make it historic on there? Franklin/I don't know, I don't know I haven't looked into that, Shelly do you, can you, you'd have to come up if you know. Lehman/It's old. Franklin/It's old yea. Kanner/Is that the only thing it's like over 50 years or whatever the qualification. Franklin/It's over 50 years but whether it has any other attributes of eligibility I don't know. Shelley McCafferty/Yes, it's older than 50 years and the owner is intending to apply to have it designated as an Iowa City landmark, basically what would make it historic is the age and the degree to which it's in tact. The quality of the historic, of the character of the house, also people who know who were associated with, who was associated with the lawyer, his name was Rank I believe. Champion/Rank. McCafferty/Rank or Ronk I'm not exactly sure of the pronunciation. Kanner/He wasn't hanging out with Captain Irish. McCafferty/I think he was a little after Captain Irish. Lehman/Don't tell us more than we need to know. McCafferty/There you go. Lehman/Thank you. Pfab/Don't confuse us with the facts. Franklin/Anything else. Okay let's go onto the next item. F. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 6.15 ACRES FROM INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL, CI-1, TO COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL, CC-2, LOCATED AT COMMERCE DRIVE AND LIBERTY DRIVE. (REZ01-00015 ) This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 6 Franklin/Item F, this is a public hearing on an ordinance to rezone approximately 6.15 acres from Intensive Commercial (CI-1) to Community Commercial (CC-2) located at Commeme Drive and Liberty Drive. This is within the Scott Six Industrial Park and the item that has much coverage and debate in the newspapers recently. The Planning & Zoning Commission has recommended that this property not be rezoned as requested by a vote of 6-1 with Shannon voting in the negative. This is consistent with the staff recommendation also for denial. This is based on a policy that was set by previous Council's regarding the industrial development of this general area, BDI and the area to the east of here fi'om basically from Scott Boulevard east to a triangle that's created by the railroad tracks 4201h Street and then eventually Taft Avenue. In our comprehensive plan since at least 1983 if not prior to that this area has been shown even when it was in the county as being a future site for industrial development for Iowa City. Back in the early 90's, 94 we looked at this property and even the City Council at one point contemplated pumhasing the property for city owned industrial park, did not pursue then, it then became owned by the Streb's over time, by 1995 or 1996 it was completely owned by the Streb's. And at that point in 95 we started talking to the Streb's as well as the Houghton Family that owned the southerly portion about a public private partnership to make this into an industrial park. That was accomplished and as part of creating this industrial park there was some commercial zoning agreed to along Scott Boulevard at the request of the Streb' s. The commercial intensive zoning was chosen because that is the commercial zoning which most clearly aligns itself with industrial development in that in commercial intensive one has land consumptive uses, contractors yards, lumber yards, places that would potentially use a lot of land for their particular product, warehousing, it also allows light manufacturing. Wilburn/Karin, over here. Franklin/Sorry, it didn't sound like you. Wilburn/Low pressure system in air. When the, you said the in your analysis you said the Streb's requested that it be zoned the Intensive Commercial. Franklin/No. Wilbum/Do you know why? Franklin/No, they did not request it to be Intensive Commercial, their desire was that it be a more general commercial, it was part of the negotiations as we worked with them to develop this industrial park that we agreed that for the commercial zoning to fit here. Wilburn/Right that it had to be. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 7 Franklin/Intensive Conunercial was the most desirable. Wilburn/Okay. Franklin/The question for the Council and I know Ann will stress this to you in comments that she will make tomorrow night as chair of the Planning & Zoning Commission. The question is about whether this is an area that should be focused on the industrial sector of our economy or should it be the more commercial? The policy today has been that this is the area, one of the few areas in Iowa City in which it's appropriate for industrial development and that the more retail type of commercial should happen in other locations. This is not a question about whether to rezone this particular property for a Fareway grocery store, it is whether to rezone it to CC-2 which allows Fareway, HyVee, Kum N Go gas station, any kind of retail that might be allowed which is the CC-2 is the retail zone so that's the primary question that your being asked. Lehman/And tomorrow night we'll have public hearing and I'm sure that the discussion and whatever action we take will occur in November but at some point between now and then it would be nice to have a list of the permitted uses in a CI-1 and also a list of permitted uses in, what are they requesting? Franklin/CC-2. Lehman/CC-2. Because I do think that's exactly right, we have to look at anything that could occur in a CC-2. Okay. Vanderhoef/And while your doing that let' s also bring in, well you can see the one CN-1 up there which is similar but not quite the same as CC-2. Franklin/Oh. VanderhoefJ But to see where the other areas. Franklin/The CN, okay, this is a map that shows other currently zoned commercial properties on the east side, now obviously not all of them have opportunities for this grocery store, it's unlikely that there's enough land left in this CN-1. This location which is the subject of annexation and rezoning would be a potential site, this is a potential site and then of course in the First Avenue Mall Drive area are potential sites. Vanderhoef/What' s the one clear at the bottom that you just (can't hear)? Franklin/This one. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 8 Vanderhoef/Yea. Franklin/That is a CN-1 zone, there' s enough ground them, it's right by Bon Aire. Vanderhoef/Oh, okay. Champion/And why weren't they interested in that land do you know? Franklin/I can't answer that. Lehman/Okay. Franklin/Okay so a list of permitted uses in CI-1 and CC-2, do you all, is this what you were after Dee or do you want other zones? Lehman/Well I think it's important. Vanderhoef/And put CN-1 please. Lehman/Yea. Franklin/CN- 1. Wilbtun/Well for to look at it as land use as your suggesting it's probably also appropriate to look at if we were to make an exception to what's currently there is there enough you know what you would be changing it to. Is there enough commercial where that type of development could go in and makes sense to look at well if there is enough what are the compelling reasons to change it if there's not then maybe there' s compelling reasons to change it so. Champion/Karin when I drove out there to look at this, the area is right behind that gas station. Franklin/Right. Champion/Okay. Franklin/The gas station is right here. Lehman/What's between that piece of property and Scott Boulevard? Franklin/Well the. Pfab/The ditch. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22,2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 9 Lehman/Well the ditch yes, yes, yes ..... Franklin/The storm water detention area, the landscape storm water detention area. Champion/And so the access to the grocery store would be on Liberty Drive. Franklin/It would be on Liberty and Commerce, it would be in here somewhere you know and I don't know that if the grocery store deal were to go through that they would take this entire area for that they are buying that entire area but that's what's being asked to be rezoned. So it's conceivable that the grocery store could go for instance on these two lots and then these two, these four would then be available for smaller commercial uses. Vanderhoef/Which would be more traffic. Franklin/Yes, of a retail and I think it's important to point out that the issue is not so much about the amount of traffic it's the type of traffic that we're talking about mixing here. Lehman/Okay. Pfab/Wait I have a question. Are there other buildings out in that area, what are those? Are there? Franklin/Well there's the Gerdin project which is this huge distribution or warehousing here which is, I don't, I can't tell you exactly how many square feet but it's huge. And then there's a either this lot or this one in the industrial area is a contractor and I think it's some type of component, not component homes but that type of thing. Pfab/That's. Vanderhoef/And where is Owens Brockway going? Franklin/I don't know Dee exactly what lot they're going to be buying? I'll see if I can find that out, I would imagine it's up in here but I'm not for sure about that because I think they're buying that from Gerdin. Lehman/Oh that's right. Vanderhoef/They are. Lehman/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 10 Kanner/Karin, well one of these arguments that was being made is that when this agreement was reached for the zoning over there with the Streb's I guess that we would give them significant financial incentives and reading the minutes before P & Z, their representative was saying that they didn't really get financial incentives that they were just very minor things. Franklin/Well I guess that' s all in one' s perspective but I think that the statement that Mr. Downer made that those financial incentives before the industrial development that's absolutely correct. That it is for things that happen in the industrial zone or industrial development within the CI-1, it is not for commercial development. So for instance if you put in a non manufacturing use in the CI-1 you would not be eligible for tax increment financing. But if you put in a light manufacturing in the CI-1 you would be eligible for tax increment financing. The waiver of the sewer and water tap on fees obviously that advantage accrues to the whole thing and I would have to check to see whether we made a distinction whether they paid some of the fees, I don't believe that they did but I don't want to say that without checking. But I think it's perfectly correct to say that the financial incentives that were put in place here were put in place for the industrial development and focused on these industrial lots that the conunercial zoning that it's place was something that we agreed to because we were trying to work with the Streb's and get them to voluntarily annex this ground and what we wanted primarily out of it was the industrial development, the industrial development opportunity. Kanner/And what's the status of 420th Street? Is it still at county grade? Franklin/Yea it's still at a chip seal at best standard and at some point and we have it in our capital improvements program but I think it's in the unfunded years, at some point as this area develops whether it's industrial or commercial we will need to improve 4201h Street. Now if we do it in conjunction with industrial development and have a potential user in place we can apply for RISE money to assist us with the improvement of 420th Street for an industrial user. I do not believe we could do that for a grocery store or retail uses. Kanner/And if we rezoned and a grocery store would go in there we would probably have to redo 4201h Street sooner than we'd want to have? Franklin/Well, conceivably because what we're talking about is increasing the automobile traffic that' s occurring in here. Now it kind of depends on how mm~y people are using this part of it. I think this intersection will get busier, some of the input that you received are from people who work in the industrial park who live east of Iowa City, some, you know not even in the county who work here and who would use this facility on their way to and t~om work. Now would they go this way or would they come down 6 and go on 4201h and back out I don't know but the point is that that there will be some increase in the traffic that' s happening This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 11 here more immediately than is likely to happen with the industrial because the industrial moves more slowly. I mean that's one of the things about industrial land is it does not develop quickly which is why govemments get involved and incentives trying to encourage industrial land because a private property owner can't really hold onto it all that long without some incentives. One thing we do anticipate is that if this were to happen that the signalization at Scott and Liberty would be requested fairly soon. Champion/Why? Lehman/Traffic. Champion/W don't have stop lights at HyVee entrances on First Avenue and (can't hear). Franklin/I'm not saying that we'd put one in Conhie or there would be warrants but I think there would be requests and we have Cotmcils have decided in the past to put in signalization even before it was warranted so I mean that's just trying to anticipate one of the possibilities. Vanderhoef/What is the possibility of the need for signalization on Highway 6 with Scott? How soon might that? Would that push that up also? It would seem to me it would. Franklin/There's probably the potential for it and maybe that's even greater than the Liberty and Scott. If in fact this store would serve a lot of south east Iowa City basically south of Highway 6, along Highway 6 there you'd have that traffic coming in. I don't know that's speculation also. VanderhoefJ It just seems to me that that would be sooner than anything else. Franklin/I mean we've had a request already to have a signal at Heinz and Highway 6 from the development and Saddlebrook and we're looking into it. Anything else? Lehman/Okey doke. G. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 24.12 ACRES FROM INTERIM DEVELOPMENT SINGLE-FAMILY, ID-RS, TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY, SAO-5, LOCATED EAST OF HICKORY TRAIL. (REZ01-00012) Franklin/The next item is a public heating on an ordinance to rezone approximately 24.12 acres from ID-RS to SAO-5 sensitive areas overlay, this is located east of Hickory Trail. This is the last 40 acres, 40 acres, no 24 acres owned by Plum Grove Acres and the approval of this by the Planning & Zoning Commission and This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 12 recommendation to the staff is subject to First Avenue being completed that no building permits would be issued until First Avenue is open to traffic. This is one project that I will point out that as it has gone through the process most recently because we've looked at this project before First Avenue was decided. But it's one project that by the developer's going and meeting with the neighborhood before they came into the Planning & Zoning Commission were able to resolve a lot of issues here having to do with drainage, where the open space was, the configuration of the roads and was quite successful in making it go more smoothly through the commission. Vanderhoef/How soon do you anticipate this connecting up with Scott Boulevard to the noah? Franklin/A while, given the property owner to the north is ACT. I mean ACT is up here, we've got a new property owner that owns this property to the east that probably will be developing it within five years or so. I think ACT's plans do not include doing anything in this area to the north of here in the foreseeable future, obviously that could change but. Vanderhoef/So we don't have any north connection coming in at? Franklin/Well we'll have First Avenue up to Scott and then as this proceeds, actually it's this road that would proceed to the east it would hook up with Scott over here somewhere. Vanderhoef/But not to the north. Franklin/Well then Scott goes north. Vanderhoef/Yea. Franklin/I don't have a good area map sorry. Kanner/And when is the? Franklin/I mean that's probably the more likely in terms of how soon it's going to happen that it will happen from this point going east and hooking up with Scott and of course Scott will be done in 2002 next summer. Vanderhoef] Yea I looked at that and wondered why if we had your memo said probably November of next year which mean then First Avenue will open next year and that put this development a full year behind because of the season so you know the suggestion I think it was probably out of P & Z that someone wondered about giving building permit but not occupancy permit prior to. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 13 Franklin/Right, right. Vanderhoef/And that sort of seemed reasonable to me. Franklin/It's your call, occupancy permits are harder to, well, occupancy is harder to control, I should say, the permits are easy to control but the occupancy is not necessarily. Vanderhoef/And you know the. Champion/How are they going to get in there? Vanderhoef/Well they're going to have them build the roads anyway so they can, your saying that they can go ahead and build all the roads and do the infrastructure kinds of things in next construction season. Franklin/They put all the infrastructure in, right. Vanderhoef/They just can't start building a house, and to me I would be okay with stopping at the occupancy rather than the building season. Franklin/You know that' s your call, the secondary access guidelines take into consideration the fact that there are going to be instances where you know because of things that are happening in the capital improvement program projects that the city is doing that there is going to be that secondary access. The position that we have taken the staff and Planning & Zoning is that First Avenue is in and completed and open that that is adequate secondary access for this project. And so whether you wait on the building permits until November 2002 or you allow them to go forward in anticipation of this road opening in November 2002 is up to you. VanderhoefJ Yea as long as they understand the risk. Franklin/There is a possibility obviously given weather that we don't finish by next fall but. Vanderhoef/I would think that would their choice whether they want to risk open getting it open or not but I don't see any reason why we should stop them. Lehman/Except I can tell you that the houses are built and the construction season is poor and the road is not done they will be meeting with us on Tuesday night insisting that they be able to live in those houses. I just, we just have to know that going. Vanderhoef/And the word would be no. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Cotmcil Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 14 Champion/I doubt it. Lehman/Well that' s easier, I. Vanderhoef/I can say no at that point. Champion/I couldn't. Lehman/I'm not sure I could either but that's something we'll take up. Kanner/And the Comp. Plan calls for 2 to 8 dwellings per acre and it conclude the sensitive areas it's 1.6 if you don't, what would the density be if you take away the sensitive areas? What's the density? Franklin/I'd have to, I don't know, I'd have to calculate it Steven it's clearly under the, I mean this the SAO-5, 5 dwelling units per acre, the lowest density that we have so it's clearly within the bounds of the Comprehensive Plan of 2-8. Kanner/Well if you take away the sensitive areas your saying. Franklin/Yes. Kanner/Okay. Yea, would you let me know what it is, it goes, so it goes from that 1.6 to what is what I'd like to know? 3 or 4 or 5 or whatever that might be. Franklin/I'm sure it's not 5 it's probably at most. Vanderhoef/And the conservation area is. Franklin/At most 3 right down here. Vanderhoef/That' s all there is of the conservation area, there isn't any in those back yards. Franklin/This is Hickory Trail and these are the lots and so the conservation areas all in here. Vanderhoef] Oh there isn't any going north there in that real sensitive area up in there? Franklin/No these are lot lines that go all the way to the property line. Vanderhoef/Okay. Franklin/This, okay this over here on the other side the lot lines just go to here so this is a conservation area in here. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 15 Vanderhoef/And who maintains that conservation area then if it's not part of the lot? Franklin/Oh I'd have to go back to the staff report. Vanderhoef/Public to put a trail in there by the creek or what? Franklin/No that's for down here, this is where the trail would go down at the bottom there. Vanderhoef/But isn't that another? Franklin/There' s a. Vanderhoef/Waterway of some description up there on the right hand, yea in that area. Franklin/No this is the wooded outlot there. Vanderhoef/What's the snaky line that crosses over the dark line up in there? Franklin/This. Vanderhoef/Yea. Larry Schnittjer/Tree line. Franklin/That could be an intermittent or it could be a tree line I'm not really sure which in this scale. Pfab/And the one in the computer it looks like a tree line. Franklin/Okay, the proposed the subdivision sets aside outlots A and B for parkland and open space. Outlot B this one down here will be the beginning of a larger park shown on the Noaheast District Plan. Outlot A contains steep slopes and woodlands and is therefore not suitable for neighborhood park land, it does though however asstare the long term protection of the environmentally sensitive area will allow for potential trails, location is called for in the Noaheast District Plan. Vanderhoef/And A. Franklin/Conservation easement will provide long term protection of this environmentally sensitive area but it would remain in private ownership. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 16 Kanner/And it says under the sensitive areas that the applicant could have done clustering but hasn't, could you just talk to that for a minute how that works. Franklin/Where are you looking at Steven? Under sensitive areas section of the staff report? Karmer/I'm not sure where in here but I remember reading somewhere that it talked about under sensitive areas they have the option of clustering and they prefer not to, I like the idea of clustering, it sort of brings that fringe area agreement thing back to our local city where we talked about clustering and more open space. Franklin/Well basically what they have chosen to do here is to continue this neighborhood as it has developed which is single family detached housing and providing a significant amount of open space in both the conservation easement and open space dedicated to the city rather than clustering the units into a different housing type. And it's their choice as opposed to putting it into condominiums or townhouses or apartments. And so if you prefer that it be clustered and you don't like this particular project you would just vote no. Pfab/Where, could you make that last statement, you said they decided to what, dedicate what to the city? Franklin/This outlot in the southe~y part here, okay. Pfab/Right. Franklin/That is what they will be dedicated to the city as their neighborhood open space. Pfab/Is that what you were asking about Dee? Karmer/Well it, no, density. Pfab/No I was asking for Dee asked. Vanderhoef/I just wanted to know where that conservation area was because I wasn't seeing it well on my map. Franklin/Larry do you want to say something am I misspeaking here? Oh. Larry Schnittjer/I don't know, I'll let you point, this is park land dedication and this is parkland dedication, the conservation easement here. Franklin/Oh okay, oh okay I didn't read enough. Did you get that Dee then? Pfab/Okay so. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 17 Franklin/So this is going to be public, this is conservation easement in the steep slopes back here, I can't see the exact line. Schnittjer/The exact line is right there and the conservation easement goes far enough south to cover the existing tree area which is this area and the steep slopes are just part of the lot, it's not, there's no easement over the steep slopes. Vanderhoef/Just on the treed area is that what your saying Larry? Schnittjer/Right. Pfab/So what does that mean as far as? Franklin/That means that the conservation easement says that you can't build in that area and it has to be conserved as open space and then this area on the east side of it will be public, I misspoke before I said it would be private. That will be public open space, also to the south along the creek and along Hickory Trail will be public. Pfab/Now go back to this conservation space where you can't build on. Franklin/Yea on the wooded steep slopes. Pfab/Okay now that' s not available to the public. Franklin/No that's private lots, the lot lines go all the way back. Pfab/Is there any reason why enablers up there couldn't share that rather than private property as you do that? Can't build. Franklin/Well the only way that the city would become involved is if it became public open space and the decisions about what we accept as public open space has to do with accessibility and how it would potentially be used and who would it use it. If it's basically property that is going to be surrounded by houses that for all intensive purposes it looks like private open space Parks and Recreation usually doesn't want to get that land because it is just used by those. If they want to decide something amongst themselves to share with their neighbors they can. Pfab/But it looks like it's an ideal place for a clustering and build around it and so this would be a common area for that development. Lehman/Well that's just not what they chose to do. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 18 Schnittjer/It's difficult to build around that area because that area is two things, it's a wooded steep slope, and there's no way you can encircle. This subdivision here to the west goes up to a cul de sac here. Pfab/Wait just a minute, where are you? Franklin/He can't, wait, do. Schnittjer/I can't, this doesn't work on there, until I get the special one. Franklin/Okay go ahead. Schnittjer/The subdivision to the west which is Part 3 goes up to a cul de sac. Pfab/Okay. Schnittjer/And there's one very large house up at the end of that and in the process of designing this as we reviewed the alternatives of providing another green space strip or how we would provide access to the public and it just was not feasible to provide public access to it so you have a, if you were to do what your suggesting. Pfab/No, no, I wasn't suggesting to the public I was suggesting at least to the owners in there so it would be rather than little pieces of. Schnittjer/Those are not little pieces, those lots are 85 to 90 wide. Franklin/Irvin all of this property that's in this wooded ravine if people are okay with people crossing it the property lines and using it there won't be any problem. But in terms of the city getting involved and setting aside a place why would we? Pfab/No, no, I'm not saying that, it's an opportunity here to develop this that would preserve that area. Now let's suppose that in about 22 1 decided I was going to buy that lot and I didn't want anyone else to come on it that's the end of it. Franklin/Right. Pfab/So in other words, in other words could it be where the neighbors could see this as something a private place where they, a common area for all the people in that development. Franklin/The developer's have not chosen to go in that direction. Kanner/But one of the arguments I would make to the Council is that if we talked about especially in our consideration of conservation in historic districts where we're going to say we're not going to increase the density downtown that puts This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 19 tremendous pressure on prices and rents and so forth that means I would say I would argue that we have to try to increase density in the next step out and especially here when it talks in, this is in the comprehensive plan in the background information Karin I found. Where it talks about clustering options are allowed and in sensitive areas ordinance and this might be going on with what Irvin's saying, this might be a place where we want to see some of that to get some higher density so that if we're not going to be doing it in the downtown or in the neighborhoods right next to downtown, we might want to consider in the next step out to get some higher density so we don't keep spreading out further and further. I think that' s one of the issues, I continue to speak for that and I think it's something we need to look at especially in terms of making more conservation in historic districts. Franklin/I guess if you want to make that point this is what the developer's have chosen to do and just vote no if you don't agree with it. Pfab/And you are saying. Vanderhoef/A Comprehensive Plan when all the neighbors worked on it that they were very interested in keeping that RS-5 up there. Kanner/Well not but the density, when you include the sensitive area is 1.6 and is even less than the Comprehensive Plan so I would say we should try to get that 2 to 8 dwelling units per acre density including all the land there. Of course not being on the sensitive areas so that if you would exclude it it would get up beyond that three which is the rough estimate, it might get up to five or six and so you have a density that would meet that 2 to 8 dwellings. Champion/But they've already. Lehman/Well that's the sort of discussion we should have at the public hearing tomorrow night. H. PUBLIC HEARING ON A REZONING ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE OPDH PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN PART XVIII TO PERMIT NINE ADDITIONAL RESIDENTIAL UNITS ON 4.33 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD AND SOUTH OF WELLINGTON DRIVE. (REZ01-00018) Franklin/Okay the next item is a public hearing on an ordinance to amend the OPDH plan for Village Green part XVIII. I'm trying to get this to move. Kanner/In our comprehensive plan we say we don't want buildings that look too similar, is that correct? That was a concem, that if they don't look similar that this is a good thing that they look different. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 20 Franklin/Yea this is a variation of what has been going on in the Wellington Condominium's area in this particular Village Green section and this is along Scott Boulevard, this is Scott Boulevard to the south here and then the buildings that are around this loop drive are a variation from what has been built in the rest of the Wellington Condominium's. These buildings are a little bit closer to what we have seen elsewhere. And basically with this one and the next one what we have done is kind of put the developer on notice that there is quite a bit of the condominium's built around the lakes in this area and when I say we, I'm talking about Planning & Zoning as well as the staff saying that now's the time to start looking at a little bit different and they have done that in the next project which I will point out when we get there. This is recommended for approval by the staff and by the commission unanimously 6-0. Kanner/Karin is this something that with look by Duncan at the zoning needs to be codified a little more the definition of what is different, are people satisfied with the way it's now? It seems to be a big burden on you to have to say. Franklin/I think it's very difficult to legislate that diversity within a neighborhood because then you have to get to a point of actually quantifying that your going to have X percentage of this or X percentage of that and I think that would be very, very hard in any fair way and so to date the way those kinds of decisions have been made has been more collective, more consensus building as it goes those through the process of the commission and the developer working with the commission and the staff and taking it through the Council. I guess I would not be inclined to codify it at this point. Because I think we're getting some of that mix. Kanner/And so basically, okay and I knew you used what' s in the comprehensive plan it says it looks for a mix of housing types as a basis for your discussion with the developer. Franklin/Right. Pfab/Where going back one or two spaces. Franklin/I'll try, next one. Pfab/One more. Okay where is (can't hear) Green Drive on the right side, where does that come out compared to where the, we're looking at Fareway which is the code name for that other place, where would that enter Scott Boulevard? Franklin/Down, it's off the screen. Lehman/It's quite a ways. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 21 Franklin/Yea, see here' s the railroad tracks. Lehman/Clear on the other side of the tracks. Pfab/Okay I get it now, I was looking at this as Highway 6 but it's (can't hear) but that's not a point. O'Donnell/It's (can't hear). Pfab/Yes look who I'm sitting next to. Franklin/Okay, should we go onto the next item then? Lehman/Yes. I. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDNANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 14.07 ACRES OF PROPERTY FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RS-5, AND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY-LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, OPDH-5, TO OPDH-5, FOR APPROXIMATELY 14.07 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF VILLAGE ROAD AND NORTH OF WINTERGREEN DRIVE. (REZ01-00014) (more discussion after item "L") Franklin/Okay public hearing then on Village Green Parts XVIX and XX I think, it's not in my comment. Vanderhoef/It is. Franklin/One of the issues here was with an intersection, if you can put this in the context of what we were talking about in the staff report, basically this was a concern about this whole intersection of Jennifer Jean Court, North Jamie Lane and Montgomery Place which is a private street in this whole development and we wanted to straighten ought the intersection that it was clearer to the motorists exactly where you were going. Now this may not look it because of the drawing but it is clearer. Lehman/I see. Franklin/On North Jamie Lane, basically comes right into Montgomery Place, instead of Montgomery Place going around this loop street of Jennifer Jean Court. The larger issues with this project have to do with the fact that this entire area is again a continuation of the Wellington Condominiums however there are some single This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 22 family and you have the plat in your packet. There are 11 single family dwellings included. (END OF 01-95 SIDE TWO) Franklin/Is in your packets, these are all single family detached which blend in then with this area that's already developed. When I said we're putting the developer on notice in terms of some variety what we're concerned about is what happens in this area right here because that' s basically what' s left to develop the area. J. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE ZONING CODE, ARTICLE O, SIGN REGULATIONS, TO PERMIT CANOPY ROOF SIGNS. (PASS AND ADOPT) Franklin/The next item is pass and adopt on the canopy roof signs. K. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF A RESUBDIVISION OF LOT 236, WASHINGTON PARK ADDITION, PART 11 (ARBOR HILL) AN 8.02 ACRE, 2-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED NORTH OF WASHINGTON STREET, EAST OF GREEN MOUNTAIN DRIVE. (SUB01-00017) Franklin/Item K is the final plat of the Arbor Hill Subdivision, and we are expecting the legal papers by tomorrow noon. Kanner/Did Ehrhardt say why she voted no on that? I was wondering if you could find. Franklin/Okay your on Prairie Edge, your ahead me. Kanner/L I'm sorry, your doing K then. Franklin/Yea K is the Arbor Hill over offof Washington that we had a whole lot of discussion on, this is just the final plat, there's no issues with it. Kanner/Yea. L. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT OF PRAIRIE EDGE SUBDIVISION, A 6.33 ACRE ONE-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED WEST OF PRAIRIE DU CHIEN ROAD. (SUB01-00019) Franklin/L is the resolution approving the preliminary and final plat of Prairie Edge Subdivision, this is the one your looking at Steven. This is a one lot subdivision in the cotmty and when the staff brought this to the Planning & Zoning Commission we suggested that it be approved just with an a stipulation that an This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 23 easement be gained from these property owners who are purchasing this for access to these lots such that ifoutlot A were ever developed it could have access off of that easement as opposed to directly to Prairie Du Chien, this was trying to minimize the number of cuts on Prairie Du Chien. The Planning & Zoning Commission did not agree with that position except for Pam Ehrhardt who voted no on the plat. And so basically what you have before you then is the preliminary and final plat for Prairie Edge with recommendation for approval from the Commission on a 5-1 vote and that is without the access easement. Pfab/Where is the entrance onto Prairie Du Chien? Franklin/Basically there's an indication right here that this would be a driveway access. Pfab/On the curve. Franklin/And the issue is not so much the location as the circumstances ifoutlot A were to develop for multiple lots which could happen at some time in the future that when that occurred since there was an opportunity for access elsewhere than Prairie Du Chien that we attempt to get that at this point in time as opposed to dealing with that issue later. It's not a big deal. Pfab/Is Outlot A, was that a problem concem water for other areas coming down or was that? Franklin/There was something. Pfab/I don't. Franklin/I don't know if the commissioners who are here could help me. There was some discussion during discussion of this Prairie Edge, this is the second time we've seen it, the first time it was totally inconsistent with the fringe agreement and so we recommended denial. Can you help me Jerry? Jerry Hansen/It was the septic system. Franklin/Okay. Pfab/Yea, could you speak to how was that solved or what was changed? Hansen/Well the access on the Prairie Du Chien, if we were to go down the easement in the back they had to drive across an existing septic system. Lehman/Okay. Franklin/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Cotmcil Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 24 Hansen/There would be damage to the septic system they told us if we did that. Pfab/So how did you change that? Franklin/We didn't change anything. Hansen/We didn't change anything, we voted, or the Commission voted to allow the curb cut to Prairie Du Chien Road. Vanderhoef/But would I be correct that if that was going to be developed more that it would be annexed and it would be on city sewer anyway? Franklin/There would be a change to the septic field yea. Vanderhoef/How much more can be developed out there before it's armexed? Aren't they just about finished if they keep the 40 acres? Franklin/They can't actually because they're in the growth area and they could not develop further without annexation without annexation according to the fringe agreement. Vanderhoeff That's what I thought so that septic field may be a moot point. Hansen/Maybe, maybe not, if it were to divide there would only be 3 or 4 lots it could divide into so we felt the traffic going onto Prairie Du Chien was minimal. Pfab/So what your saying is the access you want to come around it is that it? Hansen/No we want to go straight onto Prairie Du Chien. Pfab/But where would you be driving across the septic deal? Franklin/I think what Jerry's saying is that if the access were only from an easement to the rear here the concern was that as this lot was divided up that the only way to get to that easement would be to drive across the septic field. Pfab/Okay so you are proposing a more around about way. Franklin/No what the Commission finally decided on was to go with the direct access to Prairie Du Chien. Pfab/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 25 Franklin/I mean we just disagree on what the future development is likely to be but I don't think anything's going to be happening with it in the near future nor is it a irresolvable problem if we have to deal with it later. Vanderhoef/So the access right now from Lot 1 is where? Lehman/Prairie Du Chien. Franklin/Prairie Du Chien, it's one of these lines, I think that one right there. Vanderhoef/There, okay. Franklin/If there's any further subdivision of this property we're going to be looking at it again. Lehman/Right. I. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 14.07 ACRES OF PROPERTY FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RS-5, AND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY-LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, OPDH-5, TO OPDH-5, FOR APPROXIMATELY 14.07 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF VILLAGE ROAD AND NORTH OF WINTERGREEN DRIVE. (REZ01-00014) Kanner/Karin I had one question that I didn't get to on "I" about the rezoning 14 acres south of Village Road and north of Wintergreen. I'm just not clear, the thing that we're rezoning is the RS-5 to the planned development overlay 5, it looks like we're not doing much here It's RS-5 and OPDH-5 to OPDH-5. Franklin/For the whole thing. Kanner/The whole thing so we're changing the bit that was just RS-5. Franklin/No it's basically it's a redo of the OPDH part also. Kanner/Different conditions in the (can't hear)? Franklin/Essentially the difference is more into, there was a plan that was approved I don't remember the date but it was just last year and now they want to make some changes to convert some of that to more of the condominiums and so it was a change in configuration primarily, well I'd have to get the old plat out and I can get that for you if you want. But basically it's not a significant change it's in the number of condominiums versus the number of single family and how this was configured before. And basically what they've brought is this whole concept of the Wellington Condominiums down into this area and have you know the This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 26 condominiums around the water and wanted to achieve more of the condominiums around the water as opposed to be away from the water. Pfab/Did it change the density of it? Franklin/No. Kanner/And because them' s going to be some attached housing, that's the condo's. Franklin/There's going to be attached and detached in this. Kanner/Is that why there's private refuge? Why are we not having city refuge there? Franklin/If there' s any. Kanner/Let me just add also why private streets, the private streets I'm not to crazy about, why do we have that? Franklin/Well these are all private streets within the Wellington Condominiums and it's part of that concept that they have carried down to the south and that' s one of the things that we have cautioned about going much further with. The refuse collection is the break point is at more than 3 units so if you have 4 together then it is private pickup. Is that what your asking about? Kanner/Yea because they're attached they're considered all one, so the streets. Franklin/Where you've got more than three. Kanner/Okay and so they're going to have more than three attached for these condo's. Franklin/I think four is the most, those are all three's there. Kanner/But the street you say is near the limit of what staff would like. Franklin/Well it's not so much the streets it's the whole, and it's not just staff, it's Planning & Zoning Commission too has had discussion of this, it's the whole condo's around the pond concept you know that you keep carrying this on and on and on and you know if that sells that' s certainly the motivation of the developer to continue that but in terms of the comprehensive plan and our desire to get mixes of housing in a neighborhood it's getting to a point in Village Green and in the Wellington Condo's area that it's probably about enough so we'll try to work with the developer to convince them to do something a little different as they continue to the south to the tracks. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 27 Kanner/Is it worth putting something in writing to that affect that this one is okay but we don't want to see private streets? Franklin/It's pointed out in the staff report that we would like to see an evolution of this to something different. I don't think we want to go so far as to require a legal agreement ifthat's what your suggesting. Kanner/So that' s in the staff report that we got here? Franklin/Yes. (can't hear). M.. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF WINDSOR RIDGE, PART 11A, A 5.32 ACRE 16-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED AT ARLINGTON DR1VE (SUB01-00021 ) Franklin/The last item is Windsor Ridge Part 11A, this is a very simple one, basically originally this entire area was platted as a final plat, the builders would prefer to just do the southerly part of it now. If the entire thing is included in the plat they have to either build Cumberland or escrow for it, by separating it out they can go ahead with Buckingham Lane, build it and do Cumberland at a later date when they're ready. I'm done. Lehman/Thank you. A~enda Items ITEM NO. 10. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE IOWA CITY UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE BY ESTABLISHING A TEMPORARY MORATORIUM ON DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE AREA ROUGHLY CIRCUMSCRIBED BY MILLER AVENUE, U. S. HIGHWAY 1, HARLOCKE STREET, AND BENTON STREET IN IOWA CITY, IOWA. (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Atkins/Karin while your up there we go to agenda next do you want to do moratorium? Lehman/Item 10. Atkins/Yea I assume your going to have some questions about that, you might as well stay put. Lehman/My understanding is that we have not notified the property owners in that area. Franklin/Right. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 28 Lehman/And that it might be wise for us to defer this to the next meeting to allow time to notify all the property owners so we can have a public discussion at the next regular meeting. Franklin/I think that would be fair. Lehman/I think we really should. O'Donnell/So defer until when then? Lehman/November 13. Franklin/November 13. Pfab/What does that change then? Champion/Nothing. Kanner/Well as far as being able to take out building permits and so forth that allows more people to take out building permits. Franklin/Right. Lehman/Which there has been none in this area for the last 20 years. Franklin/Right, I mean we don't anticipate, there's no particular pressure at this moment, now that's not to say that somebody couldn't come in tomorrow but the history of the area in the last 20 years has not been one of resolution of how this area is going to develop which is one of the reason's we're looking at it. Lehman/But we really need to notify the property owners, I think that. Karmer/That makes sense. Lehman/If we're going to have any meaningful discussion and decision whether or not to have a moratorium, we need both folks represented. Pfab/How many people are involved here? Franklin/Oh my. Champion/(can't hear) have to be notified. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 29 Franklin/Well this includes, even though it will unlikely have any affect on it it includes Benton Manor. Pfab/Okay. Franklin/It includes all of the individual properties on the west side of Harlocke Street, it includes all of the undeveloped property from Harlocke over to Miller. It includes the commercial properties on Highway One again unlikely to have a big impact on it but never the less is included in the area. The commercial properties on Highway One and Miller, and it includes two single family houses that are now zoned RS-8, it includes the apartments just east of Benton Manor. What it does not include, it does not include the Buss property because you have it under consideration now, it does not include the Cox property because you've set a public hearing on that and it does not include what we've called the Southgate property which is subject to the litigation, those three. Kanner/Beyond that, those that are within that border that were set up, why was it not a wider border? How big is the southwest district? Why didn't we do the whole? Franklin/The southwest district goes all the way to the landfill on the west, it goes from Melrose Avenue south to the growth area in the county. Vanderhoef/It's a big one. Franklin/It's a big area and the reason that this area was delineated, remember you had a request from Robyn Schrader on behalf of the Harlocke Weeber neighborhood to look at a moratorium in this area. And I think although I don't want to speak for Robyn but I think that the reason of looking at this particular area is because that this is one that has been subject to repeated zoning debates, land use debates over the last 15-20 years, it's come up a number of times, this is the at least the third time if not the fourth time since I've been here that we've dealt with this area with no resolution and the idea was to just isolate that, freeze it until we could go through this planning process. Kanner/What' s the zoning to the west of Harlocke? Franklin/RS-8. Vanderhoef/RM-44. Lehman/To the west of Harlocke. Franklin/There's a strip. Kanner/It seems that we would want to include that too in a moratorium. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 30 Franklin/It is, it is. Lehman/It is. Champion/It is. Franklin/Yea the properties just are on the west side of Harlocke which are developed as duplexes, and there may be some single family I don't know there in there. Kanner/But what's to the west of what we're considering? What' s the zone? Franklin/RS-5. Kanner/All the way out to Mormon Trek it's like RS-5. Vanderhoef/There's some RS-8 out there too I think. Lehman/Well along Willow Creek there' s some RS what 12 along the creek, there's some duplexes on. Champion/(can't hear) Lehman/No (can't hear) and Dane's Dairy but basically from there all the way to Sunset is built, there's nothing in there, there's nothing to talk about. Franklin/Right, right, it's not tindeveloped land yea. Lehman/Right and then as you go on south to Mormon Trek there's very little if any that' s undeveloped in that triangle that' s made by Highway One and Mormon Trek, from where Hargrave McEleney is on around the comer by New Life Fitness that's almost entirely done too, there's nothing there. Franklin/Yea there's a little piece in the commercial area by Chezik Sayer. Lehman/Yea. Pfab/Are there any other residential owners in there, residential lot owners? Franklin/Other than what I already described to you? Pfab/Right. Franklin/No. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 31 Champion/So this is just going to be deferred tomorrow. Lehman/We'll defer it and then we'll try to get some meaningful discussion on the 13th. Champion/Okay. Lehman/From the property owners and the neighbors. Arkins/Emie. Lehman/Yes. Atkins/Just so we're clear, it's property owners, not tenants. Champion/Right, property owners. Lehman/Right, property owners. Kanner/(can't hear). Dilkes/Do you want us to put a first consideration on the 13th as well? Pfab/I would say probably not. Lehman/Well you could put it on, we don't have to do it. Dilkes/No you don't, we typically don't with a public hearing given that your delaying it. Franklin/This actually is not a public heating. Lehman/It's not a public hearing. Dilkes/(can't hear). Franklin/It's just an ordinance for first consideration, and as you are deferring it tomorrow night you can defer it again on the 13th if you don't want to take action. Lehman/Well I appreciate that, on the other hand I do think that, well I would like to have the ability if we choose to act that evening, now we may not want to do that but I know the neighbors would like to see this, some action on the part of the Council and if we choose to. Dilkes/There' s no harm in doing that, I'm just asking because you typically don't. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 32 Lehman/I would put it on for first consideration, we can always choose to do it at the second meeting but I think the option should be available. Pfab/Okay I can go along with that. Lehman/Okay agenda items is where we are. ITEM 3f(7). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST TO A SUBORDINATION AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND HAWKEYE STATE BANK, IOWA CITY, IOWA FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 716 NORTH DUBUQUE STREET, IOWA CITY, IOWA. ITEM 3f(8). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST TO A SUBORDINATION AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND ABBE, INC., CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 817 - 825 PEPPERWOOD LANE, IOWA CITY, IOWA. Kanner/I had a question on, in the number 3 in the consent calendar f, number 8, we're doing some subordination agreements, I'm not quite sure how I feel about but we're doing, people are getting CDBG money from us and then it seems that they're using that money as collateral for loans and then we're subordinating our claim. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on that. Lehman/I think we're subordinating our claim but I do think we're protecting our claim. Franklin/We're in the same position as we were before in the second position. These are two projects, I noted them too Steven because of the value of the property it kind of jumps out at you. These are two properties that are transitional housing, they're not the usual sorts of things that you see in the consent calendar which are individual's homes. At first I looked at it and I thought we put CDBG money into somebody house that's $455,000 worth of value, my goodness. Atkins/I thought the same thing. Franklin/But it's not, it was a traditional housing project, both of them were and they're changing banks and we're in the same position in the second position as we were before. Kanner/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 33 Lehman/Anything else in the consent calendar? Vanderhoef/I don't have anything. Lehman/Okay, well the next item we have are the Wetlands Regulation. Vanderhoef/We've got to do. Lehman/I'm sorry what? Vanderhoef/Library Board. Wilbum/Appointment. Vanderhoef/Appointment. Kanner/Yea we had that last but normally we want to do put that up earlier, we'll do that next. Council Appointments 17a. Board of Library Trustees. Champion/I'd like to nominate Pat Schnack. Vanderhoef/I'll second that. Lehman/We have two applications, they're very good. Kanner/Kathleen Camerick and Pat. Lehman/Right. Vanderhoef/Schnack. Kanner/Schnack, yea. Pfab/I like Pat Schnack also. Kanner/One of the things I liked about Pat when I talked to her was she works with junior high folks and I think that' s a good resource to try to get junior high folks involved in the library, I think that's part of what she's about. Lehman/Do we have consensus that we appoint Pat Schnack? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 34 Pfab/Fine with me. Vanderhoef/Yes. 17b. Housing and Community Development Commission. Lehman/And Housing and Community Development Commission we have no applications for. Okay, let's do one more before we break. Wetlands. Wetlands Regulation Atkins/Let' s get Lon Drake up there and Karin will introduce him. Lehman/Lon is up and Karin is up. Franklin/Okay just to introduce this to you, remember you had a discussion ofwetlands regulations of a while ago and was the question was whether we change our sensitive areas ordinance such that our definition of jurisdictional wetlands those which we regulate are different than the Corp. of Engineers as the Corp. now addresses it under the Supreme Court decision. This map down here is our sensitive areas map, and what I did if you can discern the little blue circles. Lehman/Oh yes. Franklin/Thusly, are the areas which just from looking at it does not appear that they would be under our sensitive areas ordinance now because they do not connect to a line, a drainage way or the river. Now this is very rough because this is not a USGS map, we would have to look at each one and see if in fact, Ross. Lehman/Ross is looking close. Franklin/Ross is inspecting this closely. Lehman/Right so we will have a close inspection and a report. Franklin/Conceming Ross. Wilburn/I'm sorry. (All talking) Franklin/Where was I? Oh we have to look at it very closely to make an actual determination when a project came in. I don't know the total number of wetlands that are delineated on this map but just the ones that I counted that I feel fai~y This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 35 confident we wouldn't be looking at I counted about 31 different spots. Now those include things, well like this right up here where it's two kind of two rectangular pieces, what those are are probably lagoons. There are some, well like this I know is a farm pond, that it was a created farm pond. Those kinds of things are not going to be hit, but then there's other ones like the Whispering Meadows Wetlands. Wilburn/That's what I was looking at Karin. Franklin/Good, that it looks as if from this map because it's not connected to any dotted line that it would not come under the jurisdiction if we were to leave the ordinance just as it is. Now I can't, I don't know that for sure because the Whispering Meadow Wetlands flow north which you would not think that they would into a drainage way and BDI and then come out through Snyder Creek down through Scott Six. So it's kind of a ~mny topography there that has been altered, at least on the surface by road construction over time in the development of the city. Kanner/Ross could you point out where that is the Whispering Meadow? Franklin/Ross knows right where it is. Wilbum/Southeast of Grantwood Elementary. The reason I was looking at it because if that's one that might be covered I know several young people frequent that area riding bikes and just kind of sitting arotmd the pond there. There's quite a few people that go out there so I would hate to lose something like that near a neighborhood that may develop in the future so. Champion/(can't hear) when it was built? Wilburn/Was it I don't know. Franklin/Oh yes. Champion/I'm asking. Franklin/Oh yes that was a big city project, yea, that was part of, I think it was part of open space in that particular development and I don't know, Doug do you remember if we even had the sensitive areas ordinance when we did the Whispering Meadows? Vanderhoef/It was being done in. Lehman/It was, no, Whispering Meadows was before. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 36 Franklin/Was prior to. Lehman/That's right. Vanderhoef/It's while I was on Parks and Rec. Franklin/So you know whether we would lose or miss something like that even leaving the ordinance the way it is I can't say that we necessarily would. I asked Lon to come because he is an expert in this area and I am not and I thought he could give you a little short presentation on this change in the law and then answer any questions you might have about it. Lehman/Good. Lon Drake/Are you all acquainted with the definitions of an isolated wetland and where it came from or should I spend a moment or two on that? Champion/One moment. Pfab/I'd appreciate it. Drake/Okay, from the perspective of the natural world, there is no such thing as an isolated wetland, when you look at hydrology, animals, plants, sentiment, they're all part of connected systems. And the word isolated wetland is a lawyers term that came about when the Corp. of Engineers had it's mandate changed. The basic mandate of the Corp. of Engineers is to protect the nations waters. Well what are the nation's water? It turns out historical precedence says these are navigable waters. The definition of a navigable water is also from an old historical precedent and that is any water that in the spring time you can get a canoe up and down. That's the definition because when these definitions were made this was before steam engines were coming through and transportation on little creeks was important, and those historical precedents still stay with us. But at any rate the recent Supreme Court case said that navigable waters are approximately equal to the blue lines on a topographic map so they sort of, they sort of become interchangeable and the recent Supreme Court decision was that any wetlands through which a blue line passes, in other words which navigable waters pass or immediately adjacent to, are jurisdictional wetlands still under the mandate of the court to protect. And anything that's further away up on the hill somewhere or somewhere remote location then is isolated from navigable waters and therefore not under the purview of the Corp. of Engineers. Now there's still some fuzzy area there by what do we mean by adjacent, is 10 feet, 100 feet, that still remains to be defined, and it will be defined in court cases and all that sort of thing it will gradually get sorted out. And I think the question you of course want to know is what' s the impact of all of this, and there's a couple ways of measuring it, one is in acres, as down here, you can take your rust map, your environmental map of the This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 37 area and draw your blue lines on which Karin has already kind of eye balled around, and you can come up with an acre number that says we have so many hundred acres of wetlands within the city limits and some percentage of that will turn out be isolated by the modern definition. The other approach to this is function, what role do these isolated wetlands plant? Do, where are they located? What's the quality? And what sorts of benefits and losses do you have with them? And let me give you some opinions oft his just from living around here a lot. In my opinion most of these isolated wetlands within Iowa City are going to be low in the landscape, they're going to be in (can't hear) bottom somewhere, there are exceptions and I'll get into that. But they're going to be mostly low in the valley bottoms, they're going to be mostly very low quality, this was all farm land at one time, has had a lot of sun washed into it, they're pretty low grade wetlands, I'd doubt you'd find a pristine wetland out there in the isolated category. They still serve some useful purposes in terms of handling a little bit of storm water not as much as they could. Most of them could be upgraded if you chose to make something better out of them and most of them are not in the way of development, they're down in the valley bottoms where your not likely to build a house anyway. Because they're low in the landscape they're going to catch a lot ofrunoff from the surrounding hillsides where development will take place and if these isolated wetlands were upgraded creatively you could get more storm water management from them, you could make them more attractive, and many of them are not, you could run a trail through and link it into another part of the trail system. You could design it so it doesn't breed mosquitoes, you could get a little bit of habitat value out of them, they're going to be small. You could turn these into a neighborhood amenities if you chose to include that in design. There's obviously going to be costs, there's going to be maintenance questions, there will be ownership questions, exactly the same questions but all the other wetlands which are jurisdiction. And the exceptions to all these things I'm telling you are going to be down in the southeast part of town what' s been called the Lake Calvin area and here the isolated wetlands are going to be a little patchy wetlands of a few acres here and there that are on relatively flat grounds, they're not going to be in valleys, it's going to be on flat ground like you have Saddlebrook Development that sort of thing and in those locations probably the best way to handle them, and again this is a personal opinion would be to mitigate them if you lose a few acres here put them all together and make something better out like Saddlebrook has done or something like that. And so I think they're manageable, under your present ordinance and treat them just like any other wetland in your present ordinance, my personal bias. And I also wanted to mention that the University, if you look at University construction right now at the comer of Mormon Trek and Melrose, there's a new construction going there, they're deliberately building little isolated wetlands in the system, in these little motes where the buildings are going and obviously some architect things it would be a good idea and attractive and serve purposes and that sort of thing. And so I'm giving you my personal bias on this as to where these things are located and what they're likely to be useful for. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 38 And I personally don't see any need to change the ordinance to match the Corp. because the Corp. change has to do with navigation. Champion/So we should keep our old ordinance you mean. Drake/I think you could keep the old ordinance and just treat isolated wetlands like (can't hear). Champion/Individually. (All talking) Franklin/I think we need to clarify something here, if we keep the ordinance the way it is we use the Corp. definition which would be that we did not deal with the smaller. Drake/I'm sorry, I turned it around. Franklin/Just the opposite. Lehman/I knew what you meant. Drake/Yea. Champion/Now tell me how do you, you said you could keep mosquitoes from breeding there, how do you do that? Drake/Yea mosquitoes breed in stagnant water and you either have to design a wetlands so it drains down quickly so mosquitoes can't go through their whole life cycle. So in other words you work out the hydrology so that you store water for a couple days and let the water go out of there or you keep some predators handy, in other words you have to have deep holes somewhere where small fish and that sort of thing can live year round and when flood waters come up the small fish can get back in there and eat them. And so you have to, it's one extreme to the other, it's either got to dry down or stay very wet. Wilburn/(can't hear). Champion/I love bats. Drake/Yea there are other things one can do but I wouldn't depend just on bats, by the time you've got the bats the mosquitoes are really out eating you. Lehman/Now on these ones that would not covered if we didn't change our ordinance does that require for example, Karin mentioned a farm pond, where we have a pond that's been created by man would be that protected as well? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 39 Drake/Farm ponds get a little tricky because they main part of the pond is not a wetland, it's a pond and usually there's a little fringe of wetland around the pond and those could be isolated type wetlands. Lehman/But I've seen a lot, oh I see what you mean, where you put a dam across a ravine and a farmer makes a pond and of course backs the water up and has his farm pond where not for the dam he would just have a stream running down the ravine, now. Drake/Not necessarily a stream though, it may not be a blue line type stream, it may just be a drainage way. Lehman/Drainage way okay. Drake/That only catches, but it wouldn't, it would still be an isolated wetland without the dam there. Lehman/It would be. Drake/Right it could be an isolated wetland. Lehman/It could be. Drake/In other words you can have a farm pond built high in the i'andscape where there's no blue line and it only catches surface runoff or maybe a little ground water flow, so it can be either way. Pfab/I have a question, does, how does the wetlands if we don't allow the change to take affect, how will that benefit us in storm water management and does it have a potential value to the city as water that we do not have to treat as, what' s that word? In other words is that would be water that we wouldn't have to treat? (can't hear). Atkins/Use of what Lon is talking about potentially one of the items we might use for storm water management the answer is yes it would be, it would on the list of a whole variety, right. Pfab/But is there any value to, is there any reasonable value to that because of where they are and what they do? Atkins/That I couldn't answer I'd have to defer to Lon on that. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 40 Drake/Yea, except down on the Lake Calvin area most of these isolated wetlands are already down in valley bottoms and storm water already goes towards them so that's to your advantage, you don't have to. Pfab/So if you maintain them. Drake/So you utilize them where they are and maybe just reshape them a little bit with bums or drainage's or various engineering types (can't hear). Pfab/So they have a way of helping paying for themselves because we don't have to treat the water that disappears through them? Is that? Drake/Well water, it's not that water disappears, water still goes somewhere. Pfab/Right. Drake/But you can clean it up one way. Pfab/Okay, never mind, next question. Kanner/Well I, I have a question for you but Steve I want to follow up on what Irvin brought up for storm water management what we've been looking into for the last year or two getting ready for some new things. Atkins/Sure. Kanner/Let's say we have some strict regulations, if we wanted to improve some of these isolated wetlands to be part of the system could we do that as part of a bonding issuance? Let's say it's going to take 5 million to upgrade everything and we have to issue a bond could we say that improving the wetlands was part of that system along with the concrete and the cement. Atkins/Absolutely, I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to do that. Kanner/And would staff time be part of that figuring perhaps when we're issuing a bond view (can't hear) staff time at all? Atkins/Yea I tried to do that so that we can charge engineering time against the project, that' s a fairly practice that' s correct. Kanner/And where I'm getting at is one of the big things and this comes back perhaps to Lon and also to you Steve and Karin is that we were told it would take significant staff time. Atkins/Oh yea. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 41 Kanner/To, since we don't have the Corp. making the definition anymore that we would have to make the definition so I'm wondering if we could bring this all together perhaps and that can be part of our total package at looking at storm water management. Atkins/This is one part of storm water management, I don't think there's any doubt about that if you would choose to do that, it's just the implications of a (can't hear) policy. Franklin/There' s two parts to this I think, one is if we take an assertive position and say we're going to do something with these wetlands and there's a certain cost to that which could be a capital project. But most of the places where these wetlands are located are privately owned property so we have that aspect of it to deal with. The other part of it is how we deal with these wetlands in the development process, and that' s what the sensitive areas ordinance is about, and that' s what the question is about as to whether we change that ordinance because as it stands now what we will do is we will have jurisdiction over those wetlands that the Corp. will deal with and we will go on as we have and referring people who come in with the development project to get a permit or Doug can probably speak to this better than I since it's his department. If we have, if we choose to also look at these smaller more isolated or "isolated wetlands" then we have to have the capacity to make determinations because the Corp. is not going to do it for us and so then there is going to be a cost to us or a cost to the developer because that can be passed on to make the determinations as to whether it is a wetland, whether it meets the definition and then how it is going to be mitigated, we're not going to be able to rely on the Corp. for that service anymore. Vanderhoef/So what your really saying is when Steven is talking about doing bonding that is true on an individual project per say however in the meantime we're looking at the potential of having to hire more staff so they can go out and make the jurisdictional decision before we ever get to the project area. Franklin/Not necessarily hire more staff, I mean it's something we can have as a regulatory mechanism in which that responsibility is put on the developer that they have to meet certain requirements, it has to be certified by an engineer, or a wetland specialist and the mitigation has to be designed by a wetland specialist. It's a cost that you then put on the development community, you can do it that way too. Vanderhoef/But then it increases the cost of housing, you know one way or the other there is a public cost. Franklin/There's a cost. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 42 Vanderhoef/To do this, yes. O'Donnell/But it preserves the wetland and I think that's (can't hear). Vanderhoef/No, no, just to be clear of how this is all working together and whether the city takes it on as a responsibility and pays for it by having the staff to do that whether we pass it on and give it to the developer to do it and obviously the developer is in business to make a dollar or two so it gets passed onto the homeowner. Lehman/Well realistically Karin and I see a number of your little blue circles, two of them are located in a clover leaf on an interstate which obviously we're not going to deal with. Franklin/(can't hear). Lehman/No, no, but realistically and I realize this is probably an unfair question but my suspicion is a number of these are not issues that we're probably ever going to have to deal with anyway, I mean they are there in an area, for example I see one in the middle of a housing development over here where housing is built all the way around it. It must be a storm water detention pond or a man made pond that' s probably not going to go anywhere. In the areas where no development has occurred I suspect we have to deal with some of those but I guess in my own mind I don't understand the magnitude of dealing with these because I think some of them probably need to be dealt with and perhaps a lot of others won't be dealt with and I guess I can't really ask you that because you don't know which ones are which. Franklin/I can't tell you what the magnitude of it is either and I mean that's one of the things we talked about earlier is whether you want some kind of comprehensive look at this which means we would have to hire somebody to do it, I can't do it I don't think Julie could do it, Doug could Julie do it? Boothroy/Look at it? Franklin/A comprehensive look at all the wetlands, okay, oh I'm sorry. Atkins/Julie's back there, Julie's shaking her head no. Champion/But if we dealt with them as they came up then that's a much easier way to do it rather than is it? Pfab/But by that time they could be gone. Lehman/No. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 43 Champion/No. Franklin/No. Vanderhoef/It depends on which we choose. Franklin/No, we would then, if we're going to deal with them as they come up then we need to change our sensitive areas ordinance such that our definition of wetlands doesn't follow that of the Corp. Champion/Right, right. O'Donnell/That' s what we want to do. Pfab/That' s what we want to do, and one of the things that you mentioned. Franklin/Okay well that's done. Atkins/Took care of them. Pfab/One of the things that I like, the point you made was that some of these were at one time a lot a lot better storm water detention basin but due to the fact they've been silted in, and some of that could be, there's silt in there and some of it could be reworked and have a substantial storm water. Drake/Or reingineered in some way. Pfab/Right. Champion/Terrific. Arkins/Emie can I ask a question of the Council7 Lehman/Yes please do. Atkins/Am I counting heads that say amend the ordinance? Pfab/Yes. Wilburn/Yes. Franklin/(can't hear). This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 44 Kanner/Just to make it clear to give it the same protection it has before the Supreme Court decision. Atkins/That's correct, that's what I just heard you say, and ifthat's the case then you've decided we need to draft an ordinance. Lehman/All right, Lon thank you very much. Vanderhoef/Yes thank you. Lehman/Folks we will reconvene at 8:15. Neighborhood Housin~ Relations Task Force (ITEM #15. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING THE NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING RELATIONS TASK FORCE.) Lehman/Neighborhood Housing Relations Task Force, Steve you want to tell us where we are. Atkins/Well the first thing that I, we, we got together and changed the name, we thought housing nuisance sounded a little negative and quite frankly this was our best effort, if you want to give it another name that's strictly up to you all. Champion/Sotrods good to me. Atkins/We thought, we're going to start into this thing start in on a positive thing, secondly I tried to spell out in the memorandum what some of the decisions are that have to be made, I think we're done to the bottom line that you've identified the interest groups. It's a matter of naming the individuals to fill those and I do think you need some discussion on the issue of the chair. I had a hard time on the facilitator which I still believe is a good idea but it's a matter of getting someone to commit to that kind of time because I suspect this group at least from the conversations that I've had with a number of folks that are interested and they're going to want to meet fairly frequently, you know every couple weeks or so and it's just tough for a tough facilitator to commit to that kind of time so I think your chair is an important issue. Other than that folks, you get the committee named, we'll do the preliminary staffing, the staff folks, HIS, police, whoever we're ready to go to work with them so it's really kind of up to you now. Lehman/We need these names before we do the resolution. Karr/The resolution as it is written right now contains the names. Lehman/Are we prepared to go ahead and start putting in names? I mean I think we do know who some of these folks are. What's your pleasure? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 45 Atkins/Now I do not have answers, some answers I do not have. (END OF 01-96 SIDE ONE) Pfab/I would rather see the big make up before we (can't hear). Vanderhoef/I'm okay with doing an ordinance without names. (All talking) Atkins/A resolution. Karr/A resolution. Vanderhoef/A resolution. Atkins/Creating it. Vanderhoef/And do a second one with the entire list of names that way we see the whole broad make up of the committee. Lehman/Would it be necessary to have names as long as we have categories in the resolution? Karr/I think it was Eleanor who felt strongest about this and she' s not here right now. Lehman/Well Eleanor's not here to defend herself (can't hear). Kanner/Well Irvin why do you feel that we should have names? Pfab/No, I said no, I said well until we put it, I say go ahead put it separately, the names are separate from the resolution I believe. Lehman/Well they aren't the way it's written. Kanner/No they're not, but your saying, I thought you said the opposite. Arkins/Okay we wanted to give you an option and decide on how you wish to pursue this better. Pfab/Well I guess I'd ask the other people that are involved. O'Donnell/Steve what's the break down? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 46 Atkins/You have three folks from tenant. Pfab/What page is this on? Karr/It's Item #15. (All talking) Atkins/Three tenant, three landlord, one Realtor, three from the neighborhood and one at large, 11 people. Vanderhoef/And the at large is the chair. Atkins/Well we have to decide that. Vanderhoef/Unless we have a facilitator. Lehman/I would like to suggest that the facilitator be available to the committee if they find they need one, I don't feel that it's appropriate to start out with one, if we get, if they get a good chair a lot of these things could be resolved without a facilitator. Champion/I think it's important that the chair be a totally neutral party. Vanderhoef/Not from one of the groups. Champion/Pardon. Vanderhoef/Not from one of the groups, I fully agree with that. O'Dormell/No, we've had this group working on this for two years and we have very great deal of knowledge about the direction that they want, and I don't know one Board or Commission be appoint chair, the chair should be elected within. Lehman/I agree, the only, my only concern personally is I would hate to see this group put together something that is, they bring it to us and then for some reason the folks who feel that the ordinance is passed to their detriment have them come back and say your chair was picked by the folks who set up the committee, I think the credibility of the committee is enhanced by a neutral chair. O'Donnell/But on the other hand nothing this conunittee does is going to go unless it gets approved by the Council. Lehman/I'm well aware of that. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 47 O'Donnell/So I just, I think Errfie for you know and we've talked about this before but I think it's important that the chair is appointed from within this group and I think it's important and I once again bring up that we have many Boards and Commissions and we do not appoint the chair for the head of the committee. Champion/Good point. Atkins/You can appoint in the resolution, we call it one at large chair, you can always appoint just an at large person. Vanderhoef/That's the way I was looking at it so that that no one from the one of the three or four identified groups. Champion/Right. Vanderhoef/Got over or felt like there was over representation from one of those groups that was chalring it and therefore might have a bigger influence on what happened within the committee. Lehman/Well this is a task force, we did name the Deer Committee individually, we picked those as Council people, we picked every single person that went on the committee, we're not choosing to do that here, I mean we're saying these folks have already done a lot of work, we do know where a lot of these folks are that are suggestions for those names. I don't have any problem whatsoever in picking the chair of the task force. Vanderhoef/I don't either. Pfab/With them picking the chair or us? Lehman/Us. Pfab/I don't want to pick, I think they should pick their own, because they did a lot of work. Lehman/(can't hear). Pfab/I know I was aware of a lot of things that were going on for along time, I know the work that these people put into this thing and if when nobody else would do anything they put a lot of effort and time, it just went on for years. Lehman/I'm well aware of that. Pfab/And if we don't want to buy then we ought to just say no. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 48 Lehman/What does that have to do with buying it? (All talking) Pfab/No, no, I think. O'Donnell/That has nothing to do with it. Pfab/Well does it have to do with it? Then why do you want to do it, why don't you let them? Champion/We're talking about it. O'Donnell/Irvin, you know what believe it or not we're on the same side. Pfab/Yes, okay. O'Donnell/What I'm talking about is let's pick the 11 people or if we have 11 people let the 11 people pick the chair. Lehman/Well the point is I think the 1 lth person is the at large which I don't know who you pick. The three categories are set out and I think it's pretty easy for the three neighborhood people, the three tenant interests, the three landlord interests, the Association of Realtors obviously can do one, how do you do the At Large? That' s assuming you want 11 people and I do think you want an uneven number. O'Donnell/You do want an uneven number. Lehman/I think you do so you don't end up in a tie vote. Champion/Well I think you ask for people who would be interested in sitting on this task force that has not been involved with it before. Lehman/Well these folks I think would like to get to work on this and the sooner the better but we need to decide exactly how, now we can pass a resolution with no names, I don't think that's a problem, we can name the categories. Do we want to just, how do you want to handle the chair, the 1 lth person? Pfab/I would just let them elect their own chair. Lehman/You have to have the 1 lth person before you can elect the chair, how do you select the 1 lth person? Pfab/So it's not the chair it's the 1 lth person we're looking for. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 49 Atkins/Emie I envision the At Large is anybody, I mean no matter who you would choose to pick. Lehman/The At Large. Arkins/They will represent somebody, somewhere, something but I think your trying to pick the 1 lth person and since. Lehman/How do we do that? Champion/It could be anybody. Atkins/Pick a name. Kanner/Well I like what Connie said, actually we've had a couple people that have suggested and I'd say leave it open until the next meeting and get people the opportunity, and then we'll look at the applicants, maybe we'll have five, maybe we'll have 10 and we'll pick one by a vote of the Council I like that idea and I guess I'm leaning towards letting them, the group pick their chair from among the 11. Lehman/Well that's fine I mean if that's the way you want to do it. Atkins/Ernie we, the staff at City we strongly urge it to be a citizen not a staff member. Lehman/On no I think that's right. Atkins/I mean that' s one, we will have staff there, once you name the committee I have no trouble attending the first meeting to help you know serve as a temporary chair to get the thing up and nmning, we would like to write a little report sort of identifying some issues as we see them so we can direct that to the committee and then after that they're really kind of on their own, I mean we'll support them but it's really up them. Lehman/Okay if we pass a resolution without names, we will identify the various categories as we have them presently in the resolution but without names, and then the, the one identified will be one person At Large and what your saying is you'd like to have folks who are interested in doing that contact us between now and the 13th of November. Kanner/Well set it the deadline before the Thursday or Wednesday before that meeting. Dilkes/Is Council, Council is going to appoint these people? Do I understand that correctly? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 50 Pfab/Well are we going to appoint the people? Champion/We're going to approve the list. Lehman/Approve is a good word. Dilkes/Okay and then the resolution without people is fai~y meaningless, we need people, now Madan can advertise, you know she can, if we can't get the people then we can advertise or do what we do in other situations to get people but I think you have to figure out how your going to get the people. Lehman/Do we know the people? Dilkes/And to name them. Lehman/How many of these people do we know? Atkins/What do you mean how many people do we know? Lehman/I mean people's names do we have that are willing to serve that we have identified. Dilkes/How many slots? Pfab/Well is the list that' s here they're all willing to serve. Lehman/I don't have the list here. Pfab/It's on page (can't hear). Atkins/Yea that memo shows the people that are willing to serve, you also have a letter outstanding to the Realtors, out to the apartment owners association, the student government, Nick Klenske has already contacted us saying that he would intend to serve so that's already taken care of. You have two neighborhood representatives who has spearheaded in putting in together that have indicated their willingness to serve in Tim and Jerry. And you've got the nucleus of naming people already. Vanderhoef/That' s what was in the last. Karr/I think what. O'Donnell/We've got a good group. Arkins/I mean your on way to, yea. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 51 Karmer/See I don't understand why we can't pass a resolution taking out what's on 207, taking out the blank lines saying these are the categories we're going to appoint and then we'll just appoint them at November 13, we have most of the people, we just need to flush it out and then we need to make a decision on the At Large. Dilkes/My point is without people there is no committee and so nothing is going to happen until we get the people appointed so the resolution simply identifying the categories really has no effect. Champion/Why not because when we do the Deer Committee, I mean people go in and out of that. Lehman/We put names on those. Champion/Oh we put names on. Karr/The Deer Committee, we inherited that task force from it's membership and to begin with you have to go all the way back, you advertised, you assigned the slots, then you created the task force, renamed it into a task force excuse me, kept the same people okay so I think what the mechanism here is the advantage to establish the task force doesn't get it up and running until you name the people November 13 anyway. So whether you make it a two step process or not they can't meet until you appoint people. Champion/But we can name them. Dilkes/You can do the resolution tomorrow it just doesn't, it won't get anything going. Champion/So we can name them at a next work session. Pfab/Well let me ask you is there a part way place here, can we name the ones that are named here and the rest of them to be filled on the 13th. Karr/When you say named here what do you? Pfab/I thought there was a list. Was there a list? Vanderhoef/There are no names on the resolution. Lehman/No but we have names. (All talking) O'Donnell/But we have names. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 52 Dilkes/You can insert tonight and then you could work towards filling the slot. Lehman/Okay let's do that. Champion/Okay what are the names? Lehman/Well I think from the neighborhood we want I'm sure Jerry Hansen and Tim Walker, is that? Champion/Right. Lehman/Is there a third? Kanner/Have you folks found a third person? Jerry Hansen/Yea it's on the list (can't hear). Karr/I'm sorry I can't. Kanner/On your list. Karr/I can't, I'm not picking up the names. Atkins/Ann Freerks. Lehman/Freerks. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Lehman/Tenant interest. Champion/Well there is a tenant. Pfab/Okay, okay, right. Lehman/No, no, no, he may be but that. Kanner/Well we have Nick Klenske. Lehman/Okay. Vanderhoeff For a tenant. Kanner/And we were going to get someone from the neighborhood center. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 53 Vanderhoef/Pheasant Ridge and from. Karmer/Broadway. Vanderhoef/Broadway were places that we suggested but it hasn't, we haven't received any names fi'om those two locations and so I think we really need to advertise that because there's lots of other places that someone might not necessarily be associated with those two but certainly those two areas are places to advertise. Lehman/All right but we have Nick or someone he will name either him or someone he will name. Is that? Kanner/Well I think we should, he said he's interested himself so I think we ought to name him. Lehman/All right we've got him, then the landlord interest would be Steven Vanderwoude is that correct? Atkins/Okay now before you go further I wrote a letter to Anne Vespa, the Apartment Owner's Association asking for some names. That has not been responded to yet. Vanderhoef/And likewise to Realtors so their group may choose. Atkins/Now and that's not Steve Vanderwoude personally would be an excellent candidate, yea. Champion/(can't hear) really good. Kanner/But again we might want to wait until let them have an opportunity to respond with that letter. Pfab/Well can we start with, can we start with the people that we have named here? Vanderhoef/I think we should just advertise all of them, wait for responses from these letters that went out and then put the whole thing together, that isn't meaning that we're going to exclude any of these peoples names that we have but to fill in part of it without all of it like Eleanor says it has no meaning until we've got them all. Pfab/It has no meaning until we've got them all. Dilkes/Well the committee needs to be formulated in order to meet. Champion/Right. Dilkes/I mean the people are the committee. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 54 Vanderhoef/We need to wait for responses and we need to advertise so we make sure that people know that they can be considered for the tenant area for one of the areas and certainly each of those special groups, they have their organization and they'll pick. Pfab/So what it seems to be is the way we're drifting right now is to put everything on hold. Lehman/Well except that I do think, do we have consensus that Jerry, Tim and Ann. Vanderhoef/That' s fine. Lehman/Be the neighborhood folks and let that be done, we're not going to go out and look for other neighborhood representatives because we have the three that we want, or that they want I should say. Vanderhoef/That's fine. Pfab/Well okay the list that I'm looking at is Hillaty Sale. Lehman/No that's. Vanderhoef/No. Lehman/No those are not, we're talking about neighborhood representatives and we have three, Jerry, Tim and Ann. Pfab/Okay. Lehman/And those are the three I think we agree that that those three, the rest of them. Kanner/And Nick Klenske can we agree on that? Lehman/I think we can. Vanderhoef/We invited someone from that area from student government and he accepted and so I think he's fine. Pfab/So now we're, but what is the wrong with the other two if we accepted the other three, Sale and Buss? Vanderhoef/Because they don't fit a category. Pfab/Well but we have categories that are still to be filled. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Cotmcil Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 55 Lehman/We have one. Vanderhoef/But they aren't Realtors and they aren't. Pfab/Okay but you want someone from At Large right. Kanner/But that's, we're going to give people the opportunity to apply, not that we're going to throw these folks out but we're going to give other folks a chance to apply equally with them and we'll make a decision at our next meeting. Pfab/Okay so Sail, I'm sorry Hillary Sail and Buss, William Buss would be part of the population which we would choose from. Kanner/They can apply for At Large. Vanderhoef/For the At Large. Karmer/Or if they fit another category by some chance they can apply for that. Pfab/Okay so then police chief, the attorney, the fire department, is there any other categories or does that come up with an odd number of people? Atkins/Well don't, don't pick the staff, just keep us out. Lehman/No leave this, I think the resolution as written for 11 people probably is a good number and I think it probably represents the categories that need to be represented so what I think I'm hearing is that we will, we know who four of these folks are going to be that we're going to try to pick the rest of them and vote on this on the 13th. Pfab/And then with the idea that once the committee, that members are picked they select their own chair. Lehman/If that's what the Council wants to do that' s fine. Pfab/That's what I would prefer. O'Donnell/I'm comfortable with that. Kanner/Yea. Lehman/So what we would do is fill the categories and the one at large make that as part of the resolution on the 13th, vote they go ahead and start meeting and elect their chair and go from there. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 56 Champion/Right. Pfab/Yea but the chair is selected not by us but by them. Champion/We already said that. Kanner/Can we get a deadline of the Wednesday before our meeting that people have to submit a letter of intent. Pfab/Interest. Champion/Yes. Atkins/We will make phone calls to Anne Vespa and Ann Lawyer, that's apartment owners and Realtors and get them to give names to us. You already have two letter I believe Carol Connor and Crissy Canganelli came in. You know those came in, those were unsolicited, they just simply said we're interested. Vanderhoef/How we, how we get the advertisement out and a reply back quickly for tenant is the concern and. Atkins/Well I honestly would, I would hope that we could rely on Jerry and Tim and Ann and Nick and have them put the word out to get some additional names. Lehman/I think that' s the best group as far as getting the vote. Atkins/Yea and all we need is really just a short note. Kanner/And you said the neighborhood centers were trying to get the word out too. Atkins/Trying to do that yea. Lehman/Okay that's what we'll do. Vanderhoef/Okay. Dilkes/Let me just clarify, is Madan suppose to be advertising, or seeking some kind of, or is that all going to just happen by word of mouth? Lehman/I don't, do we think, is it necessary to advertise for this, it can't be. Champion/I think so, I think the committee I mean you know. Dilkes/Okay word of mouth. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 57 Lehman/Yes and there are letters that have gone out, I think we know the categories, I don't see that we should have to. Atkins/You have selected four people of the 11 people already, is that correct? Champion/Right. Lehman/Right. Atkins/All right. Pfab/Is, could I ask what Jerry' s opinion would be since he's worked on this so much unless there's some, both of those people, what is their thoughts on it? Kanner/Sure. Pfab/Both of you could come on up. Lehman/Well I think they probably want to speak for them. Jerry Hartsen/I'm quite confused at the confusion quite frankly. Lehman/Thank you. Hansen/If your going to send out the letters I mean that's been the discussion here to get applicants for this, why wasn't that done at the last meeting? Vanderhoef/They're out. Hansen/At the last meeting it was my opinion and Tim's opinion that we were picking the committee and that' s why we sat down with Mr. Atkins. Champion/That's true. Hansen/And gave him our list of people we wanted on this committee. Champion/Oh go for it. Hansen/We asked Mr. Atkins to send letters to the Board of Realtors and we were willing to accept their representative. Champion/Your right. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 58 Hansen/The tenant unit from the University and we were willing to accept that whoever they sent and I think it was the large, landlords, we had suggested. Lehman/Vanderwoude. Hansen/We had suggested Vanderwoude and that the other two whoever was solicited through those letters would be the people we accepted. We wanted to nominate Hillary Sale and that was what we did. Champion/Okay. Hansen/So I'm wondering what the confusion is. Lehman/Well we don't have some of the names, I think all we're looking for is the names because we can vote on this as soon as we have the names filled in. Hansen/I'm confused why you didn't have those names. Lehman/I don't know why we don't, we have sent letters as we said we would and I don't think we have heard back from the Real Estate folks. Hansen/Well no but you have names for at least two of the tenant category because we put them in. Vanderhoeff Tenant. Lehman/Who? Vanderhoef/Who? Tim Walker/(can't hear). Lehman/Klenske we have. Hansen/Klenske, Carberry and. Atkins/Okay Emie I've got to step in here, I gave you those names I did not give them to the rest of the Council I wanted you to discuss those. Lehman/Oh I'm sony. Walker/Mike Carberry is simply waiting for a phone call. Karr/I'm sorry I can't. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 59 (All talking) Hartsen/And Mike Newman was. Vanderhoef/I don't know anything about any of those names. Lehman/But I think that we have said they can name them so I mean I don't have a problem if that' s. Champion/Right. Kanner/Well actually I do Jerry I'm not confused, I think we said there are other people are interested and certainly we're going to take your advice on who you recommend and I think that's going to weight heavily in the decision and most likely will come down on the side of most of your choices but I think this is something that's out there and in my opinion it's a good process to allow other people to apply, we had other letters from very qualified people. The head of the homeless shelter, I think she warns careful consideration for placement on this committee, I think it's a viewpoint that's needed, she' s fulfilled a lot of different positions in the committee from tenant to homeowner to head of the homeless shelter. And so I personally think the philosophy of taking a couple weeks to let people put in letters formally, some that you recommended, some that you didn't is a good process to have and I think as a City Cotmcil that's our responsibility is to appoint those people and certainly I appreciate your input and that' s going to be part of my decision on who I'm going to vote for to put on the committee. Hansen/I appreciate that input Steven I guess it's just a difference of opinion as to what was said to us at the last opinion. Lehman/No there' s no difference of opinion, we told you at the last meeting you were to select your committee. O' Donnell/That' s exactly right. Pfab/Yea and I would say what are we waiting for? Champion/We don't have all the names. Lehman/Well except that I think we're getting close, because I have put, I've written names down. I've got Klenske, Newman, and Carberry for tenants. All fight for landlords I've got Vanderwoude. Hansen/Right and then Steve had said he would two letters, or a letter to the landlord association asking for whoever their representatives are going to be. The student government fulfilled their obligation and we're waiting for a Board of Realtor. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 60 Champion/I'd say we're done. Pfab/But can't, can't. O'Dormell/I'm fine with that Jerry. Champion/Me too. Pfab/But Jerry's saying we were told we could get going. Champion/Well they don't have all the names. O'Donnell/(Can't hear). Lehman/We lack three names, well now it could be possible that we could have those three names by tomorrow night. Hansen/Could be. Pfab/And if we don't. Could we. Vanderhoef/We'll defer it for two weeks. Pfab/They are identifiable people. Vanderhoef/That' s all we can do. Pfab/Because selection of those groups, now if that group, we can't force them to come up with a name but we can name somebody if they don't. But I mean we're waiting for the Board of Realtors and the large owners, hey they can sit on this forever and that' s the end of it. Lehman/We need a name to pass the resolution, we can't. Hansen/If we can't get a name through letter solicitation or direct phone call by. What's today? Pfab/Tomorrow. Hansen/Yea if I can't find out from Steve by say tomorrow night then I would like to go ahead and call up Mr. Svoboda and see if he would be willing to be the large landlord, I mean I think he has a lot of trust in town among a lot of people and he represents an awful lot of the landlords. I mean the one thing we want out of this This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Cotmcil Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 61 thing is that everybody perceives this as fair, okay we're not out to sandbag anybody, I mean this has got to be fair or our work is wasted. Lehman/No I hear you. Vanderhoef/No that's not the problem Jerry, the problem is if your going to have a credible person to represent the real estate people it has to be someone that the real estate people are comfortable with that they will go back and forth with and likewise for the landlords. And so we've asked those groups and we've got to give them a little bit of time to bring one in because they probably haven't had a meeting in this last week since they got the letter. Pfab/When was the letter sent? Vanderhoef/So we can't, we can't push like that. Lehman/Jerry my suspicion is that if you have the names to fill in the blanks tomorrow night that we will vote on it. Do I. Vanderhoeff Yea but. Lehman/I mean that's my suspicion. Pfab/Yes, I would say we sat on this long enough. Vanderhoef/Emie I'm not willing to go with our appointment if we have not heard from the two groups that we wrote letters to, they have not had an opportunity to respond and if they haven't had a meeting of the landlords so they can choose who it is, I'm sony but. Lehman/Well we'll call them tomorrow. (All talking) Pfab/There was a meeting here in this room here two or three weeks ago and this was all discussed. Vanderhoef/Two weeks ago we met and we talked about this, since then this group has met, the letters just got out, what I'm saying is that the landlord group and the real estate people haven't had but a week probably since they received the letter if that. Pfab/I was at a meeting that involved all these people two or three weeks ago and it wasn't a City Council meeting, it was in here, and I don't remember the name of the group and that word was getting out at that point, I, this looks like to me a way whether intentionally or non intentionally it's a way of sandbagging this thing. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 62 Vanderhoef/No, come on. Hansen/May I make a suggestion? Lehman/Yes. Hansen/Why don't we call the people? Lehman/The association and see what you can get. Hansen/And find out how soon they can get this to us. Lehman/Why don't you do this before. Champion/They might not have had a meeting. Lehman/This will be on the agenda tomorrow night, if you have an opportunity to talk to those folks and if you have some sort ofresohition tomorrow night let us know. O'Donnell/Thank you. Pfab/So if we've got names, it's a go. Vanderhoef/Well I want the letter to come from the groups that says or the phone call from the chairman of the real estate group or the chairman of the landlords group that says these are the people we have chosen, that' s what I will accept. Pfab/Or a letter saying that we aren't going to chose one. Vanderhoef/Well ifthat's their choice, I don't suspect that that will happen but we can call them and say when can you get us your representatives names, that's what. Lehman/Tim. Walker/I was just going to ask if Jerry can scare this up tomorrow or Mr. Atkins whomever however that falls if you can do a trust but verify that they have said so a letter is going to follow. Vanderhoef/Well because the letter came from here then the response needs to come back to Steve. Walker/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 63 Lehman/That's, but if we can verify, if they can get that information tomorrow I don't see that' s a problem. Walker/Okay. Vanderhoef/But they can't, if they haven't had a meeting, then we have to wait two weeks. Champion/But maybe they haven't had a meeting yet. Lehman/If they can't they may be a problem, all right. Atkins/So we don't leave, so we don't leave, I will call Ann Vespa and Ann Lawyer tomorrow. O'Donnell/Good. Lehman/Okay, all right. Kanner/What' s the story on the At Large person? Lehman/Hillary Sale is the person they want to name At Large. Kanner/Well I think it behooves us to let people apply from the general community. Champion/We decided not to do it. Kanner/What? Champion/We've decided not to do it. Kanner/But why would we not want to have someone, there' s all these great people out there and why wouldn't we want to give them an opportunity to present why they want to be on the committee and then choose from that, I think it's in our interest to at least choose the At Large person from among people that are just beginning to hear about this. Vanderhoef/I don't necessarily disagree with you on that one, I think Emie had a good suggestion, I don't know whether he's interested or not but he had suggested Dee Norton as chair who is a non group person that we've already put in there and there are several other in the community that might well be. Pfab/But we had agreed that they will decide their own chair. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 64 Vanderhoef/I understand that and I didn't necessarily agree with that and so I'm just stating my opinion. Pfab/Well everybody has a different. Lehman/No, and I feel the same way but the majority of the Council does not. Vanderhoef/We could, well I think there's three of us at least that would like to chose the At Large. Pfab/But the At Large person but might be one thing but I think the committee ought to elect the chair. Vanderhoef/I'm not saying chair. Pfab/You just said Dee Norton as a chair. Vanderhoef/That it needs to be out there in the community for other folks to be considered for the At Large spot. Hansen/We wanted Hillary Sale as chair for this because we viewed her as neutral, I mean she hasn't been involved in the neighborhood associations, she hasn't been involved with the Realtors that I know of and the chair under this committee would have no vote. Lehman/Your going to have to have one vote though, if you have 11 members your going to have to 11 votes. Hansen/Well then we're going to have a voting chair. Lehman/Yea I really think you really need to do that just so that you can't get a 5-5 vote. Hansen/Okay. Lehman/You don't have to do that but it would just seem that you would avoid a possibility of a dead lock. Pfab/Well maybe a chair in case of pot. Vanderhoef/And so that the facilitator, that was the other possibility rather than "having a chair" to have the facilitator and still have 11 members that were all voting so that we wouldn't have the tie possibility. Lehman/Right, I don't think that we're, unless the Council disagrees I mean I think you have a facilitator if you need one, if you don't need one I don't see any. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 65 Pfab/Yea, I mean I think that we had agreed that if they asked for one or need one. Lehman/Right. Champion/The way that the facilitator would work, I mean if you really wanted to have a facilitator chair because it I think you'd have to kind of do a strategic plan you'd have to meet like all day Friday, all day Saturday, come up with a thing at the end. Pfab/But your saying a facilitator chair. Champion/No, I mean if you were going to do that, if you were going to use a facilitator you'd have to do it like your do a strategic plan and lock yourselves up and come up with a battle. Hansen/One other thing that we had mentioned was that we wanted these meetings to be weekly so that. Lehman/That's going to depend on the makeup of your committee, your going to have to get together and your going to select your chair, your meeting times, and of course that's going to be coordinated with staff folks who can work with you which I think who are pretty versatile. So as I understand it were we are right now Steve is going to make a couple phone calls tomorrow, if we have the names tomorrow we're going to make the appointments and pass the resolution tomorrow night is that correct. Vanderhoef/If those phone calls are going to be made tomorrow then and this is your intent at least from the neighborhood association to meet weekly, that's information that those people who are considering being on the committee needs to know, otherwise if I were being appointed to a committee, I might think max. of every other week or you know some people think in terms of once a month when they're on a, if that is truly what our expectation is from Council, not from them, from Council that they could meet as often as weekly then the people who are going onto that committee need to know that in advance before they volunteer otherwise you'll not have participation if their expectation is something different. Lehman/I don't think that's an expectation of Council, that's an expectation that you have and that's something your committee is going to have to come up with and you can't meet every week then you meet every two weeks but I don't know that we as a Council have an expectation how often your going to meet. Vanderhoef/No. Hansen/I'd also just like to speak to the public input, these will be open meetings and I'm sure we will welcome public input so if people who are sending letters if This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 66 they're not able or by whatever mechanism works if they don't end up on their committee we'll certainly still want their input. Wilbum/And I'm sure there will be people following that will come following developments. Vanderhoef/So you'll have to design that whether you want a specific public time or whether your going to take input throughout the meeting you know, that. Lehman/Set your own roles. Vanderhoef/But those are roles that you'll have to look at carefully. Kanner/Jeny where are the tenants beside Nick Klenske from? Are they representing Broadway or Pheasant Ridge. Hansen/Mike Newman lives in Wetherby and Mike Carberry lives on the north side. Kanner/And how did they get picked? Hanserg Well we were asked to put the committee together and we thought those were people that would number one stick to the amount of meetings that we wanted to see this thing have and people that would be interested in what happens in the neighborhood. Walker/(can't hear). Kanner/Okay I just saw here in the transcript, Jerry Hansen well I know the Broadway Neighborhood Center has an advisory committee and I'm sure they can give you a tenant, and there must be something that mirrors that over at Pheasant Ridge I don't think it was quite clear. The majority apparently is going to go with you but I don't think it was quite clear that that was what was decided at the last meeting that you would determine the committee, I think the transcript shows some other things that are not as clear as your stating, I think our responsibility is to keep it open to some people and I think that's a better process certainly with the At Large person. Lehman/Okay see you tomorrow night. Hansen/Thank you. Universal Desil~n House Plan (ITEM #6. PLANS, SPECIFICATION, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST OF CONSTRUCTION OF A UNIVERSAL DESIGN SINGLE FAMILY HOME UNDER THE AFFORDABLE DREAM HOME OPPORTUNITIES PROGRAM (1821 B This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 67 STREET), ESTABLISHING AMOUNT OF BID SECURITY TO ACCOMPANY EACH BID, DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK TO PUBLIC ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS, AND FIXING TIME AND PLACE FOR RECEIPT OF BDS. Doug Boothroy/Oh Shelley your here, I was looking for you because tonight we have, we do have a power point presentation to share with the Council on the Universal Design House that we're going to be hopefully constructing and putting on the Parade of Homes for 2002. If you recall Universal Design is a design that recognizes, appreciates, incorporates a life span of living within a house by the way it's designed and the design takes into account certain things like no step entry ways, wider hallways, larger bathrooms in case you at some point need to have a wheel chair or some other kind of assisted devices in your home. Some people think of Universal Design as a common sense approach to building houses that you build it for, as I said earlier for any eventuality, it's flexible enough, you build into it certain problems that might that you might face as you get older. So tomorrow night on your agenda we have, we're going, you'll be acting on a resolution to start a bidding process, and Shelley McCafferty is here, she's been working with a number of different groups in the community to come up with a design and I wanted her to take a few minutes and just kind of walk you through what some of the features are. O'Donnell/Nice looking. Shelley McCafferty/Okay, it should be coming up. Lehman/Is this the plan that you had at the ped mall when we had the American with Disabilities meeting.'? McCafferty/Yea it's been further developed since that time of course. Karin/It took Karin Franklin five years to master that. Lehman/Hey there we go. McCafferty/There we go, okay. Atkins/Thank you, your welcome. Champion/Oh it wasn't plugged in. Atkins/It wasn't plugged in. McCafferty/Okay first, I don't think I've been formally introduced to the Council, I'm not associate planner up in the Planning Department, I took Scott Kugler's This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 68 position, sometime at the beginning of May I guess it was at which time I was pulled into this project since, by training I am an architect and I've worked on some Universal Design houses including Ann Bovberg's house. And so Doug got me involved with this particular project, what we're looking at here is a slide of the site, the site is over on B Street near Garden and Court and so it's in a nice well established neighborhood, this would be if you were standing in the street where the curb basically looking back at the site. And it has some really nice features in this particular site, it's got the nice mature trees, as you can see here this beautiful big Oak tree so we're trying to in our design preserve the aesthetics of the site. So this is standing at the back of the site looking towards B Street. One of the things we're having to deal with in this particular site which is somewhat less an ideal is we have this curve, we have this about a 5 foot drop from the site here down to the curb and I'll show you in the site plan how we're going to be dealing with that issue. And this is just setting up the context of the homes in the area, this here is basically the next door neighbor, sort of a small adapted bungalow, we've got some small ranch houses, the east side of B Street and also some really charming cottages in the neighborhood. So one of the things that I'll be showing you is how I've related to the scale of that. This here is the lot that we're dealing with, this is B Street and then there's an alley back behind. And you can see here the existing trees and how we've tried to work around all these nice mature existing trees. In terms of dealing with the scale, basically we have a one story ranch type house but what I've chosen to do is to have the narrow end of the rectangle face the street, that way having the perception of the scale being smaller than what it is and if your to do the long side of the rectangle. We do have an attached garage but it's designed for the pull back from the front with basically a connected from the garage to the house so that it's not garage out front as we see in so many of the newer neighborhoods, again trying to fit in with the context of the neighborhood. I've listed here a whole number of the features, I will let you simply go through that but I'll highlight some of the things as we look at the plans. This is the floor plan, in terms of Universal Design it is a single story building there is a basement underneath where we may have our utilities depending on the cost otherwise we may just do it slab on grade project, we're bidding it both ways, with a basement and just a slab on grade. Again as Doug said it's step less entries throughout, we do have a covered porch here, covered entry and then we have a very open floor plan, sort of a minimal of obstacles and so forth, living room, dining area, this is our kitchen back in here and then back in this area is the more private parts of the house where you have the bedrooms, master bath and the bathroom. The entire first floor is accessible including the second back so that visitors could visit the house if they're disabled in a wheelchair could also use the facilities. And then we have a breezeway which attaches the garage to the house and here we have a mud room, storage, a laundry area. Lehman/Is that actually a breezeway or is that totally enclosed? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 69 McCafferty/It's enclosed, it's sort of a breezeway concept but it is enclosed just kind of connector between the two, the two forms. Just some of the features that are really for the key to this is we have of course 36 inch doorways throughout, we have a wider hallway, which is wider than typical. These circles here represent the turning radius required by a wheelchair so the kitchen entry as well as in the bathrooms we do have room enough to ram. In terms of the master bath one feature we have here is a roll in bathroom that' s fairly large, again you could turn around in it. This would be like a tiled bath, a tiled shower excuse me, and then we also have a bathtub here in the second bath. And then let's see and then the kitchen, I haven't included elevations here but some of the kitchen design is also quite significant, we have an open which is a side open oven as opposed to one that comes down, it's a wall oven, which is more accessible if your in a wheel chair. We have a cook top which is at a lower height and it has retractable doors so you can wheel up underneath the cook top, it's a smooth cook top with tile around it so you can simply take your heavy pots and so forth and slide it right off making that easier to deal with cooking. Also underneath here there's a cart for storage which is one of the things as we were meeting with the coalition of person's with disabilities, they really liked that idea of having a cart that you can work at for additional work space but you could also put your meals on there, your hot items and move it about the kitchen without having to deal with it in your hands or on your lap. So some of the other features I'll let you go ahead and read through those yourself, I'm trying to keep this short and to the point. These are the elevations. Champion/I just want to ask a question before you move out of that plan. You say you have an adjustable height sink, how does that work? McCafferty/Oh yea we do, there is a manufacturer that makes a product, let' s see, Adias I believe is the manufacturer and it's a sink which is electronically controlled and is adjustable height. The plumbing, the drain hoses and so forth are actually flexible and so basically there' s a button in the front where. Champion/Wow. McCafferty/It will adjust up and down and that again is another feature that when we're talking with people and getting input and they really like that feature as well, you've got to have that adjustable height sink is one of the things I heard at the ADA celebration. Pfab/Is the sink, can you get under the sink with the wheelchair? McCafferty/Yes, yes, such a design that if your in a wheelchair you can use it or you might have someone else in the same household who' s tall and doesn't want to have to bend over the sink so. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 70 Champion/Oh great idea. McCafferty/Yea. O'Donnell/Never heard of it. Lehman/I haven't either. Pfab/I have one question, where is the oven in relationship to the (can't hear)? Lehman/It's right there. McCafferty/This is the wall of it right here and this is the cook top. Pfab/Okay. McCafferty/Yea so then we have refrigerator, pantry area, and a sink. And you know all the storage that we have here is like roll out drawers or roll out pantries, you never have to get down on your hands and knees and kind of look back at the shelf, everything you can pull out and have visible. O'Donnell/It's really neat. Champion/It is. Lehman/There' s a lot of detail. Vanderhoet7 Kitchen's are real difficult. McCafferty/Yea they are, there was a challenge getting the space, we went through it a number of iterations until we finally arrived at this which everyone seemed satisfied with. Here we go to the elevations, this is the front of the house as you see it from B Street, you can see we have a covered entry, the doors just sort of around the comer here. All the windows throughout this is encasement windows, the crank out windows. In terms of our electrical, we'll probably have electrical rtm to a couple of them so if somebody in the future wanted to put electrical operators on it they could do that, those that might be keyed to ventilation. Kanner/What do you say, the windows? McCafferty/They're casement windows, they're swing out windows and so they. Kanner/And they could be operated electrically. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 71 McCafferty/Well you can potentially in the future get electric operators, we're not going to install them but in terms of these assistance technology we want to have it wired for that since that's where some of the expense is and that's what's difficult about adding electrical items. O'Donnell/Does it run with like a push button, the window? McCafferty/Yea a little box by the window. We won't be actually installing those but we want to have that option for someone who's buying. Lehman/It's really inexpensive to run the wiring when your building it, and that' s the time to do it. McCafferty/Yea right. Pfab/Like driving up with your car and push the button. Is that the way the entry is going to be? McCafferty/Yea we're looking perhaps at having a card entry rather than a key you might have to fumble with to get in the lock. O'Dormell/Pretty nice. McCafferty/And so this is the connector piece right here and this is the garage and they're sort of set back further, that' s kind of why their drawn a little wider. This area here if you notice on the plan there's a patio so they do have an area where they can put a lawn chair so forth and sit outside, perhaps have some raised beds for gardening. And then this is the back of the house, this would be the entry to the garage which is off the alley similar to what you see in traditional neighborhoods. And then this is the side of the house the northwest side. Pfab/Is this the side where the drop down is? I'm sorry. McCafferty/Pardon. Pfab/Is this the side where the drop down is street? McCafferty/No that's on B Street. Vanderhoef/In the front. McCafferty/It's off the front, you go all the way out to B Street and then it drops off dramatically about 5 feet. One thing I guess I didn't say about that and I had intended to was this drop off occurs somewhere in this area here and if you know we really don't have a distance to get a ramp that goes straight out so we're going This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 72 to bring this leg of a sidewalk which will then give us the distance to ramp down and then have an area a concrete pad here where they could potentially wait for the bus or you know have access out to the street. Lehman/Are there going to be sidewalks on that? McCafferty/No there isn't and that' s one of the real downfalls of this particular site is given the grade of this site it would be very difficult to install sidewalks. Lehman/Okay, is that a problem for a disabled person? McCafferty/That' s one of the requests from the coalition is that you know they would really like to see sidewalks in this area. Right now your about a block from a sidewalk right now. Lehman/Right because if you left your house in a wheel chair you'd have to go out the alley or travel in the street. Wilburn/Which a lot of people do. McCafferty/Correct. Lehman/Oh I know but it's not the best way of doing it. Wilbum/No, no, no. McCafferty/No it's not, it is a low traffic area, it's fairly wide street, you, one block is basically as far as you'd have to go, ideally though certainly sidewalks would be preferred. Vanderhoef/Are you talking crashed rock or are you talking concrete for that driveway into the garage? McCafferty/That' s going to depend partially I think upon how the bids come in, we've discussed both. The patio to the side. (END OF 01-96 SIDE TWO) Vanderhoef/Whether you keep that free with concrete, I've had experience in an older neighborhood where the concrete had to be pulled out because the tree was going to die and they had to (can't hear) crashed rock area up close to the garage and let the concrete out by the alley. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 73 McCafferty/We may look at, we really tried to squeeze this thing on there, we may have to tweak it a little bit more, ideally we wouldn't like to move the tree but I know that's not an ideal location at this point, we could potentially lose it. Vanderhoef/No it's not because isn't the favorite thing to have in your wheelchair or have unsteady. McCafferty/Right. Vanderhoef/So I would just say you might be aware that you might lose that tree within the first year or tree after the house is built. McCafferty/I know it also depends on the species of tree too, some trees are much more resistant to having their roots disturbed and more confined. O'Donnell/I don't see the square footage on here. McCafferty/It's 1,600 square feet, it's just under 1,600. Vanderhoef/1,600. McCafferty/Yes. Kanner/What's the slope on the sidewalk, is it 12 to 1 or is it less feet? McCafferty/It's about 12 to 1 to get all the way down here, I still need to do some of the detailing on this but just my rough calculations it's, this area here be at least 12 to 1, this area here will be a little (can't hear) coming out at this location. Champion/Well it's a good size house, it's look like a nice floor plan. Lehman/It's a nice house. O'Donnell/Very nice. Vanderhoef/You know just because of the difficulty and the length it's almost like a curbed sidewalk from the street coming across the from yard instead of this squared out and then angled and stuff would be an added attraction actually. McCafferty/Yea it is a generous house in square footage but really in making this in terms of accessible and having useable sized rooms we went through a lot of iterations on this to get it as compact as it is. And I think it will feel very generous. Champion/Yes it will. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 74 Vanderhoef/What was the ceiling price I've forgotten, or the anticipated price? Champion/$150. Kanner/$150. McCafferty/$150. Champion/How high are the ceilings (can't hear). McCafferty/We're doing nine foot ceilings. Lehman/Nine. McCafferty/Yes. Lehman/Yea. O'Donnell/Very nice. Champion/Very nice. Wilburn/Good job. McCafferty/Thank you. Lehman/Thank you very much. McCafferty/Your welcome. Lehman/Okay council time. Council Time Wilbum/Just a quick, I hadn't done this before but I guess you just kind of get a different perspective if you take a flight over the city and look at some of the projects that are going on too so I wanted, one of the flight instructors down at the airport gave me, I took a 20 minute flight over the city and looked at what's going on. Vanderhoef/Isn't that fun? Wilburn/Yea. Lehman/Remember that Mike. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 75 Wilburn/It helps especially with some of things. Lehman/Steven. Kanner/Steve in the info. packet we got the year end summary report from the different committees and I was wondering (can't hear) things that were brought up there. How' s the contract with the County going for the Animal Control? Atkins/I've heard nothing negative about it. Karmer/Could you let us know? Atkins/Yes I will. Kanner/And see where it's at and the status of those negotiations are. Atkins/Yes, will do. Kanner/And how's the Park and Rec. comprehensive plan going? Atkins/I'm not sure that's off the ground yet, I'll check with Terry but I think the press of other business but I will find out for you. Kanner/Because we had talked about that. Atkins/Yes we did, in fact we had a meeting with them and discussed it intensively. Kanner/And how did the talk with the property owners go on First Avenue? Atkins/Ernie, the property owner of the apartment complex, the first leg of the sidewalk they agreed to install, if you go up there, it's between the medical building and their property line, he agreed to put that first part in, they are doing some of their own engineering estimates on the part that we had the trouble with, the hillside, and he has not reported back to us yet and that's on follow up shortly. Kanner/And what about the other one with Jim (can't hear)? Lehman/That one, go ahead. Atkins/Nothing yet. Karmer/Ernie were you to meet with him? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 76 Lehman/I have not met with him but I have intended obviously to meet with both of them but I have not met with and I don't know there's maybe more to that situation than I'm aware of but no I have not but I've (can't hear). Kanner/Okay. Lehman/Anything else? Dee. Vanderhoef/Just that it was a good tour on Parks and Ree. again and there really are a lot of projects out there that are happening, do go take a look at Hunters Run and down at City Park where things are going on, those are good projects. Lehman/Connie, Mike. Lehman/Steve I've got one question. Atkins/Sure. Lehman/I've had several people ask me and I'm sure other Council people have as well have, as far as the enforcement of the new liquor laws has there been any change in the way we do business and have our officers been trained to familiar with the new law? The only thing I've heard is from some students who have said it's somewhat more difficult to acquire alcohol if your under 21. But I do, we haven't heard. Atkins/Not a thing Emie, I mean we went through a review with our folks, they know what they have to do, they know the ordinance and. Lehman/Okay, but I mean must, you know it's just, the questions that I have obviously I have no answers because I haven't heard anything. Pfab/(can't hear) someone says instead of two for one beers or something, two for one, they just charge half price for it. Champion/Well that's all right. Lehman/No. Pfab/Does a special, how long does a special have? Lehman/As long as they want it. Kanner/We didn't pass that Irvin. Lehman/Didn't pass it. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001. October 22, 2001 Special Work Session Page 77 Dilkes/Can I, I mean you need to remember that Council eliminated the provision that prohibited the reduction in prices and that is a provision. Lehman/They can sell them a nickel a beer if they want. Champion/Right. Pfab/And no length of, it doesn't have to. O'Donnell/Not much future in that though. Lehman/No, okay folks, see you tomorrow night. Adjourned 9:15 PM This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of October 22, 2001.