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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-11-12 Transcription November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 1 November 12, 2001 Special Work Session 6:30 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilbum, Kanner, (Pfab 6:33) Staff.' Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Boothroy, Nasby, O'Malley TAPES: 01-97, SIDE TWO; 01-101 BOTH SIDES ADDITION TO CONSENT CALENDAR: Summit (Restaurant and Bar, Inc.) Lehman/Add to the Consent Calendar is that correct? Karr/Mike would you like to step up to the podium and state the name of the restaurant and bar and would you'd like to do to be added late. Mike Porter/Yea. Karr/Mike Porter is here from The Summit Restaurant and Bar. Porter/Right, The Summit Restaurant and, well it's actually The Summit Restaurant and Bar Inc., we'd be doing business as The Summit, and it's actually The Summit Eatery, Lounge and Nightclub would be the tag line for it. Karr/It's located 10 S. Clinton Street and Mike would like to add a Class C Liquor, a dance permit and a cigarette permit. Porter/Two dance permits actually, are they separate? Karr/No they're just one. Porter/Okay. Champion/Okay sure. Lehman/All right add it. Vanderhoeff I just have a question, there was a memo in the packet not to long ago about the, I think it was Pat White's thing on doing a security check, not a security check. Porter/Background check. Vanderhoef/On folks before a liquor license was. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 2 Dilkes/No I don't think that was Pat White, it was from the clerk's office wasn't it. Karr/It was. Porter/I actually had a background check on me and two managers already. Dilkes/What's the question? Vanderhoef/Well to add this on to the consent calendar for tomorrow night I wanted to know whether. Karr/Part of the application is a background check, it's automatic with your alcohol ordinance passed August 1st, it wouldn't be before you unless this was already, the DCI had already submitted a report and had already been reviewed by everyone, this has been approved, recommended for approval. Lehman/Everything is in order. Dilkes/Right that' s part of the processing now of the applications. Vanderhoef/Okay I wasn't sure when it took effect so this is the first. Karr/August 1st. Vanderhoef/New one that. Karr/August 1 st. Vanderhoef/Okay, good. Karr/I think the memo you might be thinking about was in response to Ross' s question maybe there was a memo stating we were going to be distributing to all new and renewal applications the alcohol ordinance, but it went into effect August 1st, and as I said all renewal and all new must have a DCI report. Vanderhoef/And this has been done. Karr/Yes. Vanderhoef~ Okay fine, not a problem. Dilkes/In an attempt to avoid some of the problems we had with the Union Bar, we added some of those questions to the application and that's probably what your thinking of, but all that has to be done before it goes on your agenda. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 3 Vanderhoef/Okay and I wasn't sure whether it had been done because this was quote a late one. Karr/Anything brought before you is in order. Vanderhoef/Okay, great. Lehman/Okay. I think at this point, Karin. Plannin~ & Zonin~ A. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR NOVEMBER 27 ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE .63 ACRES FROM GENERAL INDUSTRIAL, I-1, TO INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL, CI-1 LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF HIGHWAY 1 WEST, WEST OF RUPPERT ROAD. (RE01- 00021 ) Franklin/The first two items are setting public hearings for November 27, the first one if I-1 to CI-1 for a small piece of property next to Carousel Motors. B. CONSIDER A MOTION SETTiNG A PUBLIC HEARING FOR NOVEMBER 27 ON AN ORDINANCE TO VACATE WEST BENTON COURT NORTH OF BENTON STREET. (VAC01-00003) Franklin/The second one is a public heating on vacation of West Benton Court noah of Benton Street, and this is being requested by Oaknoll. Lehman/Okay before we go any further Eleanor should I excuse myself from the motion setting a public hearing on the vacation of West Benton Court? That has to do with Oaknoll and I am on their Executive Committee. Dilkes/Yes. Lehman/So I shouldn't even be involved in setting the heating? Correct, so tomorrow night. Dilkes/Right, but you can stay there and. Lehman/Mike, I might stay but you will. Dilkes/But you can stay when (can't hear). O'Donnell/Dee. Lehman/Dee that's right. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 4 Dilkes/It will take only a couple seconds. Lehman/Okay Karin I'm sorry. C. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE 1.38 ACRES FROM HIGH DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RM-44, TO MEDIUM DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RM-20 FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1045-1075 W. BENTON STREET. (REZ01-00020) Franklin/Okay Item C is a public heating on an ordinance to rezone 1.38 acres from high density multi-family RM-44 to RM-20 for 1045-1075 W. Benton Street. This is the rezoning that was requested by the Harlocke-Weeber neighborhood, at the last Planning & Zoning Commission meeting the Commission deferred this to November 15, at the request of the applicants, the neighborhood. The neighborhood is working with the developer on a revised site plan, where they seemed to be coming to some agreement on how to do the project on this property so despite the comment that is in your agenda packet, what you should do is continue the public heating. Lehman/Open it and continue it. Franklin/Open it and continue it to November 27, if in fact it does go forward then we're going to have to scramble before December 7th to get enough meetings in there for you to be able to act before December 7th, however it looks at this point as if they're going to reach some resolution. Lehman/Okay. Kanner/Karin, with the Southwest District Planning, if there's suggestion and it follows through all the way to Council could there be a possible rezoning there as part of that Southwest District? Franklin/Yes. Kanner/My point is that their going to reach an agreement hopefully. Franklin/Oh yes. Kanner/And we still have the problem of it's RM-44 and perhaps 10, 20 years down the road we could have the same kind of difficulty and. Franklin/It could be considered at that time for rezoning, what you would be doing, well depending upon how the development turns out, I don't know exactly how it's going to turn out, it maybe that it's only at an RM-20 density but that would be This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 5 one thing you would look at is making something non conforming if something new was built there. It was, those would be things that you would need to consider at the time but you can look at it. Kanner/Is that something that the staff is looking at, at rezoning that to a lower RM-20? Franklin/No the staff recommendation on this whole thing was not to down zone this piece of property, to keep it at the RM-44 density because it was one of the few properties that we could find that it was appropriate to have it at that higher density with the access to the arterial street a flat piece of property, a number of characteristics. So our recommendation was not to down zone the property anyway before the Planning & Zoning Commission. Now what might come out of the Southwest Planning meetings I can't say at this point, the first meeting was just last week and there is going to be some focus on this whole Harlocke- Weeber area as this process progresses. Kanner/Hopefully we' 11 keep that in mind, our staff will keep it in mind of the participants, that even though there's an agreement, it's something that we need to talk about for the long term future. Franklin/Yes, yes, yes, we're quite aware of that, yea. Pfab/What, okay with the RM-5 next to it there' s no buffer why do you say it's going to two pieces of property that RM-44 is proper for? Franklin/Because it has been RM-44 for some time, it is adjacent to an arterial, it is a flat piece of ground, it's close in to the University and as it could be developed, even though there won't be a transition right to the RS-5 we could not come up with a compelling reason to rezone it and down zone it. Pfab/The fact that there is no transition property there or area, is that have no beating? Franklin/It doesn't have no bearing but when you weigh it with the other factors in our judgment it was not enough given the fact that if you down zone you don't necessarily guarantee that physical transition in terms of where the buildings were going to be placed on the lot which is one of the big concerns of the neighboring property owners that they were going to be right up against this building. Well you could down zone it to RM-20, you could down zone it to RM-12 and still be confronted with a building that was fairly close to the single family. Kanner/Hopefully though we'll be. Franklin/So the visibility, the actual physical transition that would take place there might not really exist and in fact what you have is a transition in terms of the nomenclature on the map but that's all it would be. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 6 Kanner/But hopefully we'll consider extending in~ll guidelines out that way, that's what a lot of people are talking about. Franklin/That's another issue that came up at Planning & Zoning. Pfab/It's a public hearing again tomorrow. Franklin/It is a public hearing tomorrow. Pfab/And which will be continued. Franklin/Yes. Lehman/Right. D. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS-8) TO HISTORIC PRESERVATION OVERLAY (RS-8/OHP) FOR PROPERTIES WITHIN THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD TO ESTABLISH THE LONGFELLOW HISTORIC DISTRICT. (REZ01-00019) E. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS-8) TO CONSERVATION DISTRICT OVERLAY (RS-8/OCD) FOR PROPERTIES WITHIN THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD TO ESTABLISH THE CLARK STREET CONSERVATION DISTRICT. (REZ01-00019) F. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS-8) TO CONSERVATION DISTRICT OVERLY (RES-8/OCD) FOR PROPERTIES WITHIN THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD TO ESTABLISH THE DEARBORN STREET CONSERVATION DISTRICT. (REZ01-00019) Franklin/Okay, the next three items I'd like to take together, these are public hearings on the designation of the Longfellow Historic District, the Clark Street Conservation District and the Dearborn Street Conservation District. This is all within the overall Longfellow Neighborhood, this has been proposed by the Historic Preservation Commission and endorsed by the Planning & Zoning Commission. The area that is the dark blue is what is proposed for the Longfellow Historic District, and as you know Historic District and Conservation District are two different things. The Historic District is a little bit stricter just to kind of make it as simple as possible, a little bit stricter than the Conservation District. And there are characteristics within that area that qualify it to be a Historic District, however in the other areas of Dearbom and Clark there are not the characteristics which would allow it to qualify as a Historic District, therefore, the Historic This represents only a masonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 7 Preservation Commission and Planning & Zoning are suggesting that those two areas be Conservation Districts. The guidelines that would be adopted as part of this entire neighborhood would apply to the whole area with certain specifications for the different Conservation Districts and those are outlined in the guidelines. Summit Street Historic District already exists as does the Lucas Governor Conservation District. Lehman/Okay. Franklin/Questions on that. Kanner/Shelley and Mike are going to be there tomorrow at the public heating? Franklin/I would assume so yea. Kanner/I'll have questions for them then. Franklin/I didn't get to talk to either of them today but I'm sure that they, I'm sure at least that Mike will be there. Kanner/Okay can Shelley be there? Franklin/Yea, I think so, I didn't see her today but I'm assuming she can be. G. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO VACATE 11,800 SQUARE FEET OF UNDEVELOPED KIRKWOOD AVENUE RIGHT-OF-WAY LOCATED SOUTH OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST PARKING LOT AT 1320 KIRKWOOD AVENUE. (VAC01-00005) Franklin/Okay the next item is the public hearing of the vacation of the Kirkwood Avenue right-of-way, th~s is a request from the Church of Christ to vacate this right-of-way, a portion of which would still be used for a trail, the Longfellow trail is coming under the railroad tracks about here, that' s a pretty good, you can see it as you come down Muscatine Avenue where the runnel is through there, and then you'd be able to come through there and out through an access down to Muscatine. What they want to do is to expand their parking lot in here, we've worked with them a lot over the last year or so in getting the easements and the necessary land that we needed to do the Longfellow tunnel and they are asking that we vacate a portion of this right-of-way which has never been improved, the staff and the Planning & Zoning Commission are recommending in favor of this. We have asked the church to make a proposal in terms of the conveyance as we do with all of these vacations we'll hold the third reading on the vacation until the conveyance is settle. Lehman/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 8 Vanderhoef/Is the, where the black arrow is, is that where this piece of property will be for a little pocket park? Franklin/No it's over in here, over in this area right here, not here, up by the tracks. VanderhoefJ Oh. Franklin/That' s my understanding of it anyway, no I don't have something more specific. This is a house, I think this is a house right here Dee. Vanderhoef/Okay. Kanner/Where's the church? Franklin/Up here, and I think probably these two or three lots in here. Vanderhoef/So the church driveway won't use that easement either, or will it? Franklin/You know I'm trying to picture it in my head. Vanderhoef/You know where you get into the church and the parking lot. Lehman/No, that would become a parking lot. Franklin/No this will become a parking lot, one of the requirements of the conveyance is that they put some shrubs along here to demarcate the difference between the parking lot and where the trail comes through the tunnel and out to Muscatine. Vanderhoef/But don't they have a parking lot in behind the church at this point? Kanner/Yes it expands. Franklin/In behind, it's over to the east of it. VanderhoefJ So I guess my real question is where is the access to this property and this parking? Franklin/I think the drive is right in here. Vanderhoef/Right past turn. Franklin/But you know I'd have to look again to see for sure where that it is because it's not. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 9 Vanderhoef/I must have been past it a hundred times and I don't know. Franklin/Yea I know. Champion/I've driven by it too and I can see the tunnel but now I can't see the church. Lehman/Can't see the tunnel from the church. Vanderhoef/I'll drive out tomorrow and look at it. Franklin/Yea. Pfab/Is there any idea what the church is going to compensate the City for that? Franklin/No we don't know yet, they haven't come back to us yet. Pfab/Okay so you've asked for a proposal? Franklin/Yes. Pfab/And if I understood you correctly you' 11 say the actual passing of this ordinance will depend on what happens to the proposal? Franklin/Right. Pfab/Okay. Franklin/You will have the conveyance, what will happen is that the conveyance will occur at the same meeting as which you do the third reading on the vacation ordinance. Pfab/And the conveyance will include the settlement then? Franklin/Right. Lehman/Right. Vanderhoef/The only other thing that I want to be sure that we have the option to do is to put signage up close to the street that identifies this is where the trail is and how you get to the tunnel. Franklin/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 10 Vanderhoef/And it may have to go on what their asking for, for their parking lot, I don't know but work something out for us so that there will be a some sort of a signage at the street. Lehman/Well Karin let me ask, it would seem to me that even if we vacate that portion of the street, there still has to be an easement along, where the sidewalk would go along across that property, would there not? Franklin/Yea. Lehman/Sure, so I mean that's the place and time where these would go and there would be an easement that the City would still have. Vanderhoef/In the parkway area. Lehman/All the way across the parking lot, there has to be an easement for pedestrians. Kanner/Well we're going to own that property, we're not giving it all, but I think what Dee is saying, even if the best spot happens to be where they're going to retain ownership, we should make sure that we're allowed to put a sign because that might be the space where people can see it clearly. Franklin/Okay there's a diagram in your packet that I don't have on here that shows where the trail is and where the tunnel is and the area that we're talking about vacating which I think may help. Pfab/If we want the part, a place for the sign why would we vacate it then? Why don't we just continue to own it? Lehman/I don't think you need to own that much space for a (can't hear). Franklin/We're going to vacate a portion. Pfab/No, no, no, but I mean, okay let's say. Franklin/Okay, we're vacating a portion of the right-of-way, not the whole thing, so we're going to have enough for a trail, we'll have enough for a sign, we'll make sure that that' s happening. Pfab/I think Dee brought up a good point, if the part that they have an interest in is the place to put the sign up or. Franklin/It's not, if you look at the diagram in your packet it's not. Lehman/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 11 Kanner/I had a question. Franklin/On that one? Karmer/Yea. You said the criteria on page 117, the diagram your talking about is 119, we have three criteria that we use. Where do those come from, our Comprehensive Plan? In the analysis, the staff analysis. Franklin/No, that's generally the way we look at when we vacate a right-of-way. Which paragraph are you looking at? Kanner/It's the top paragraph on page 2 of the analysis, there are three general criteria. Franklin/Yea, it's. Kanner/I guess my concem is, do we look at green space as a criteria? It seems keeping green space should be a criteria, and I hear about more blacktop and I would rather keep the whole thing green space. Franklin/These are the criteria that we've used historically, if you want to add something else in your judgment when you vote, that's certainly is perfectly reasonable. Kanner/Do you know where these came from, these criteria? Franklin/Those have been a matter of practice Steven, I can't say that they are written in any law or policy but basically when you look at vacating the right of way it's whether your taking away anybody's access. How the vacation of the right-of- way is going to influence traffic circulation and whether we can get emergency access to properties and whether there are utilities there. I think they're just kind of common sense criteria. Kanner/On page 119 on that drawing, the analysis said that there was sort of (can't hear) trade that was made, I don't remember hearing about that trade, it doesn't look like they could have gotten much parking out of that lot 35 anyhow, so the argument maybe, they may have the argument that we're taking away their parking, I don't know if that's a valid one, I'd rather keep the whole thing green space. Pfab/Well if. Dilkes/I think during the property, let me just clarify I think because I read those minutes too, I think during the process of property acquisition, although there was discussion about that they were going to have some needs and were going to look for a vacation, when it came down to acquiring their property, that was a separate This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 12 transaction, and we needed property for the trail property so, and there were no promises made that this was going to happen. But that certainly may be an expectation. Lehman/Okay. H. CONSIDER AN ORDiNANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 3.07 ACRES FROM MEDIUM DENSITY MULTIFAMILY, RM-20, TO MEDIUM DENSITY SiNGLE FAMiLY, RS-8, LOCATED AT 747 W. BENTON STREET. (REZ01- 00013) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin/Okay the next item then is first consideration of the Buss request to down zone their property from RM-20 to RS-8. I. REZONE APPROXIMATELY 6.15 ACRES FROM iNTENSIVE COMMERCIAL, CI-1, TO COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL, CC-2 LOCATED AT COMMERCE DRIVE AND LIBERTY DRIVE. (REZ01-00015) Franklin/And the next item is the continued public hearing from CI-1 to CC-2 of the property in Scott Six, there's a memorandum in your packet that has the listing of the uses that are permitted and the zones that you requested and the location of Owens Brockway. VanderhoelY When are we going to get back our review of all the zoning? These are the questions I asked to have answered two years ago and that's when we started in on this long process supposedly that we were updating our zoning. Franklin/The Development Code Review. Vanderhoef/Yea. Franklin/We're suppose to have. Vanderhoef/And real specifically the three things that I wanted us to talk about and you said you could get it done in about 4 or 5 months and so I held off on that but this is bothering me now because it's almost two years later and we still have not had this discussion about neighborhood commercial, CC-2 and commercial intensive one. Franklin/My understanding Dee was that your concern was about the CN-1, I expect to have that in front of the Cotmcil in January, the consultant is to bring us the materials by the middle of November with the organization of the new code as well as the proposal for the CN-1, which we take immediately to the Planning & Zoning independent of the other items. I guess I'm not clear on the issues related to CC-2 and CI-1 that your referring to. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 13 Vanderhoef/Well it was all together because what goes into what zone and what zones are appropriate, there was even a question of whether neighborhood commercial was a valid at least in mind, whether it's a valid zoning and we've had the Peninsula pass us by, we've had the Mercy thing pass us by and we still haven't had this discussion and now we've got another one coming in here and it's really disconcerting not to have this information when it was almost two years ago it was asked for. Franklin/I, the schedule that I just outlined for you, we had the Development Code presented to the Council last Spring and at that time the consultant indicated that it was going to be a year to 18 months to complete the project. We have had some difficulties getting materials out of him this summer and have talked with him about that. I still, I guess I need some clarification from the Council as to the larger issue of the commercial zones, because I understand the issue with the neighborhood commercial zone but I'm having trouble with the larger commercial zone. We were talking about a reorganization of the entire zoning code. Vanderhoef/But these all fit together and it's what. Franklin/Is that everybody's understanding? Vanderhoef/That was certainly, well some of these people weren't even on the Council when it first came up. Lehman/When. Wilburn/My recollection when we talked about it was related within all of this that there were a lot of concerns about the CN-1, the neighborhood commercial and that seemed, that's the time when we started talking about seemed to be the focus. Vanderhoef/Well and that was because of a couple of things that came in but the initial request on that. Wilbarn/(can't hear). Vanderhoef/Right, was that. Wilburn/(can't hear) my recollection. Vanderhoef/What do we have here and are these appropriate and do we need to look at all of them and reorganize all of them into? Champion/I thought that's what we're doing, aren't we looking at all of them. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 14 Franklin/We're looking at the entire code. Champion/Right. Franklin/And it's about the organization of the entire code, one of the things I wanted to look at was having commercial zones, that instead of having distinctions between commercial zones we had performance zoning within the commercial zoning category but I don't think we've ever talked about that at the Council level. Kauner/Explain that real quick. Franklin/Well basically the concept is that you don't have a series of discrete commercial zones, the CC-2, CI-1, CH-1, CO-l, you have commercial zoning and then within that you have performance standards within that commercial zoning that addresses issues of design, or screening, or lighting, or noise, or traffic circulation and you use those to determine in each case the location of commercial zoning. It's pretty complicated and I'm not necessarily sure it's a good way to go because it requires that you have a very detailed analysis with every commercial development that happens and I'm not sure that that's the direction we want to go in but it's a different way to do zoning. Wilbum/So if I were looking at, a parallel if I were looking at something in the Human Services world, I'd be looking at behavioral indicators, this is what I'd see, is that (can't hear)? Franklin/Yep. Lehman/Karin, when do we expect this report back from our consultant? Champion/January. Franklin/Well, by the 15th of November, I expect the organizational report and the specifics on CN-1, because I've been pushing him on the CN-1, because I know it's of importance to more than just Dee. There's a number of people that are concerned about it. And then what I was going to do is take the CN-1 zone through the Planning & Zoning Commission and the Council and so it should get to you guys by the end of January or beginning of February. The overall zones then, the whole thing was going to be done over then another six month period. Lehman/June, is that right? Franklin/Yea. Lehman/I mean that's the date I remember is that we're suppose to have all this. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 15 Franklin/Yea, because when he gave you his report, remember it was all the ideas behind it. Lehman/Right, right. Franklin/At that point then he gave us a year to 18 months to complete the whole thing, and that was doing it all together. Lehman/Okay. Kanner/Let' s say we want to vote to not rezone that area, could we have then the discussion in January like Dee is saying of all the commercial and with your ideas, throw that in there, will we be able to have that discussion? And then after a couple months then perhaps we would have a better idea of the overall concept of what we want and then we'll see if the proposal fits in with our new concept of commercial zoning. Franklin/You can do what you'd like. Lehman/Well let me just. Franklin/I don't know you just have to tell me what you want. Kanner/No, no, I'm just saying, I'm just asking is that's possible? To throw in some of the things your talking about now, to do more than just neighborhood. Franklin/I think that's pretty ambitious to do that by January, considering that we're in November fight now. Champion/We have budget. Franklin/You have budget, and if you wanted to do that, I'm not sure that we could get the consultant to have it done by January. Kanner/So perhaps then March or April. Champion/June. Kanner/June. Franklin/Well then we're getting into when we would have it done anyway. Lehman/Have it anyway, I'm going to suggest tomorrow night with the obviously, with the concurrence of the Council and if we have the concurrence of the developer, that we send, we continue this public heating indefinitely, I think there are a This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 16 couple three options that are available to the developer that may be better options than what he's proposed and also schedule a meeting with the Planning & Zoning Commission and the Council so that we can, they can explain to us precisely where they're coming from, we can explain some of our concems to them as long as that, is that meets with the developer and the Council. Pfab/Okay Ernie what are you, when you propose that, are you seeing as how that' s going to help (can't hear)? Lehman/Well the only thing that, first, well and, to rezone that property would require if I'm and Karin correct me as we go along here if I'm not mistaken, we can not vote to rezone that property unless we vote to change the comprehensive plan, changing the comprehensive plan requires that to go through Planning & Zoning Commission it requires a public hearing there I believe, it requires action on their part, a public hearing on the part of Council, three readings on the part of Council, now we're at the point where we can vote to rezone it. Franklin/It's actually only a resolution for a Comp. Plan amendment, so it's not three readings. Lehman/It's a resolution, but you have to have a public hearing for a resolution. Franklin/Because the issue is whether you want to change the nature of this area to more of retail commercial, and that's the question before you. Lehman/Right, there are a couple other options that could be available to the developer if he would choose to request them and I'm not saying that Planning & Zoning would accept them or that we would either. The grocery store could be done as a special exception if we change the ordinance to allow that, a grocery store could. Pfab/Now does that require the changing of the Comprehensive Plan? Lehman/No, it could be done as a provisional use, again that' s something that Planning & Zoning Commission could approve and would require Council approval. Wilbum/What's (can't hear)? Lehman/Well I don't know, that's something I think we need to talk to P & Z about, and none of these are even viable if the developer isn't interested in looking at them. The other option is one that, and I don't know if it's a viable option, and if you go up the road to Heinz Road there is. Pfab/You say Heinz Road. Franklin/Here's Heinz Road. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 17 Pfab/Okay, okay. Lehman/But south of the tracks on Scott you see this property is on the east side of that drainage ditch, is that correct? Vanderhoeff Yea. Franklin/This is on the, the property that would be rezoned is on the east side of the drainage ditch. Lehman/Right, as you go further north there's property on the west side of the drainage ditch that might be more appropriate. But those are three options that the developer might want to take a look at rather than proceed with the rezoning. Pfab/Okay, the reason I'm asking this is it seems to me that this property has sat there quite a while, not much sign of activity and we're getting ready to do some rezoning down farther south, what not. Is the fact that there hasn't been a lot of activity on this property, is that because of the problem getting this heavy traffic back and forth up to the neighborhood Scott Boulevard and we're so far away from the Interstate? And is this maybe something that is has difficulty of ever going the way we would like it to go? Lehman/Oh that's hard to tell, when Scott Boulevard is completed to Highway 1 this entire area I would think will be far more viable than it is now. Franklin/BDI took 30 years to build up. Lehman/Yea I mean I don't think that' s uncommon for industrial property to take a while. Franklin/Right now there's a million plus distribution center that Mr. Gerdin owns, the Owens Brockway project will occurring on these two lots right here. And this was rezoned when Emie, '90? Vanderhoeff '97, '98. Franklin/I thought it was '98 or '99, it wasn't that long ago. Kanner/What's that upper left comer Emie was talking about? Is that 1-17 Franklin/This is zoned CI-1 also, yea, it does not have as much integration with the industrial because of the drainage way that goes through here. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 18 Vanderhoeff There' s no road that's ever going to cross that drainage way and that' s why the zoning was given CI-1 in the first place was that the developer requested a different zoning on that side of the drainage way because that land couldn't be incorporated with the regular industrial. Pfab/But could that property? Does that have access to the trackage there? Franklin/It does. Pfab/I presume that's one of the masons why these other people are moving along their rail transportation. Leb_man/There's a lot of space there Irvin. Franklin/Well these are obviously bigger lots and good size lots for the type of development that would use the siding. Pfab/Right but also. Franklin/This is intended, obviously it was platted smaller lots, it was intended for smaller users, and not necessarily, these lots do not have direct access to the siding, this doesn't seem right here. Pfab/But if someone, if the developer went in and decided he wanted a large track of land, that would be a place where he would also have to. Franklin/It's not that big from Scott Boulevard back to the drainage way. Pfab/Well it looks to me, no, no, I mean you move that. Franklin/You could I suppose. Pfab/You see what I'm saying, you look at Brockway (can't hear) and it doesn't look like there's much difference in size, now where the lot, plotted out in lots you just ignore them but there's a piece of ground for development there, is that something? Because of the fact that it has track, a rail siding there. Lehman/Well none of this is going to be relevant if the developer isn't interested in talking about it. O'Donnell/You know that's an entirely different location and I'm sure. Lehman/It's up to them, I mean all I'm. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 19 O'Donnell/Absolutely, we're talking about this entire area CI-1 right now, we're talking about the area that's blackened right here. Lehman/I realize that, and all I'm saying is that I if the developer is interested and the Council is willing I'd would like to see us continue the public hearing and let him look at the other options that are available. Pfab/Well see, the thing is, this piece of property here looks like it has a, it's a morn visible thing and it's closer to the population you look at the trailer courts and all down in here. Vanderhoef/Well what's on the other side of the railroad track is likewise. Lehman/Well the point is that a special exception would allow it to stay in the same place. Champion/Right. Lehman/A provisional use would allow it to stay in the same place, there are options available that I believe are better options than what he's asked for that would not require a change in the comprehensive plan. Pfab/They're getting to the same place but using a different route. Lehman/I think in a probably a better way, but I also think it's important that if we do continue the hearing that we do schedule a meeting with Planning & Zoning Commission and listen to their thoughts at the same time. Pfab/Right in other words, so things can move along. Franklin/So you'll decide that tomorrow night. Lehman/That's what I'm going to suggest tomorrow night. Kanner/So right now CC-2 there's no grocery stores allowed right? Lehman/Right. Franklin/CC-2 allows grocery stores, CI-1 doesn't. Vanderhoef/CI- 1. Lehman/I'm sorry CI-1 doesn't. This represents only a masonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 20 Kanner/I'm looking for this in your list here, business, what would it be classified under in your list here? Permitted uses, provisional. Lehman/Are you looking under CI-I? Karmer/No, CC-2. Pfab/What page are you on? Franklin/It's a retail, a grocery store is a retail establishment, it's not specifically called out. Kanner/Okay so it's under the retail establishments. Franklin/Yea as a permitted use. Dilkes/Ernie if you do continue the public hearing you need to continue it to a date certain. Lehman/To a date certain, okay. Dilkes/(can't hear) definitely. Lehman/Okay. Franklin/Okay. J. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 24.12 ACRES FROM INTERIM DEVELOPMENT SINGLE-FAMILY, ID-RS, TO SENSITiVE AREAS OVERLAY LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY, SAO-5, LOCATED EAST OF HICKORY TRAIL. (REZ01-00012) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin/The next item is first consideration on the rezoning of SAO-5 of the plat, or the subdivision east of Hickory Trail. Steven an answer to a question of yours the last time around, with the public open space and the conservation there's a total of 8.79 acres, and the density then if you take those out is 2.3 dwelling units per acre, this is first consideration. K. CONSIDER A REZONING ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE OPDH PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN PART XVIII TO PERMIT NiNE ADDITIONAL RESIDENTIAL UNITS ON 4.33 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD AND SOUTH OF WELLINGTON DR1VE. (REZ01- 00018) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 21 Franklin/K is first consideration on Village Green, the nine units along Scott Boulevard and then first consideration on the other Village Green rezoning that was for the additional Wellington Condominiums off of Wintergreen Drive. L. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 14.07 ACRES OF PROPERTY FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RS-5, AND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY-LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, OPDH-5, TO OPDH-5, FOR APPROXIMATELY 14.07 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF VILLAGE ROAD AND NORTH OF WINTERGREEN DR1VE. (REZ01-00014) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) M. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT OF SALTZMAN SUBDIVISION, A 2.8-ACRE, 3-LOT COMMERCIAL SUBDiVISION LOCATED EAST OF RIVERSIDE DRIVE SOUTH OF BENTON STREET. (SUB01-00011) Franklin/Item M, the applicant has requested indefinite deferral, I don't know what the issue is with this property, but they would like indefinite deferral, I think you have a letter in your packet. Lehman/Okay, right. N. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APROVING THE PRELIMINARY PLAT AND SENSITIVE AREAS SITE PLAN OF DEAN OAKES SIXTH ADDITION, A 30.11 ACRE, 18-LOT SINGLE FAMILY SUBDIVISION WITH ONE OUTLOT LOCATED AT THE WEST END OF BRISTOL DRIVE. (SUB01-00008) Franklin/Item M is a resolution for preliminary plat and sensitive areas site plan for Oakes Six Addition, your just getting this now because we had to go through the OPDH, this is just basically the plat that finalizes all of that. Kanner/Karin I had a question for you on that. Franklin/On the Oakes Six. Kanner/On Number N, Dean Oakes Six. Has the tree cover been recalculated? They were talking about it had to be recalculated in the staff report. Franklin/I don't know, the tree cover had to be recalculated. Kanner/Yea they thought it would still meet the 50 percent. Franklin/Way back in May. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 22 Kanner/133 in our book. Franklin/Well I can tell you that there are no issues with this subdivision so whatever needed to be done was done, but I can check that further for you tomorrow. Kanner/Okay and that was on page three of the staff report, 133 of ours, "the amount of woodland to be retained needs to be recalculated by the applicants engineer due to wooded areas, both in areas to be regraded and areas to be reserved missing from the plat". And explain how we allow grading to take place on some critical slopes in sensitive areas, we're going to allow some of that in this here. Franklin/The Sensitive Areas Ordinance does not preclude grading on any slopes except protected slopes, critical slopes you have to have it engineered, you have to show that your going to have stable slopes as a result but it does not preclude you from grading critical slopes. It's just the 40 percent or greater in the protected slopes. Kanner/Okay. VanderhoelY Karin how does the public access this outlot that is to be dedicated to the City? Franklin/Right over this easement here. Vanderhoef/But where's our nearest? Franklin/And our trail is likely to come from Prairie Du Chien over here and follow the easement and come over here at least one aspect of the trail, there's also our ability to put a trail through here, but that's probably a long ways off. Vanderhoef/But is there an easement someplace off of the circle off that cul de sac? Franklin/Right hem, right here. Vanderhoef/Okay well I couldn't tell whether them was truly an easement there for a trail head. Franklin/Yea that's where it would come. Vanderhoef/Okay so it could go out to that, and then the other question I had about this project the developer's putting in a lift station and then there was a comment about that in future years some of the other properties that are out there that are on septics might connect up. Franklin/They're actually on grinder pumps, individual grinder pumps some of these lots that are on the large lots, they could physically. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 23 Vanderhoeff Okay so the question is, is this a big enough lift station to put all of those on? Franklin/Yes. Vanderhoef/Okay. O. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY PLAT OF WILD PRAIRIE ESTATES PART 4, A 35.86 ACRE, 22-LOT SINGLE FAMILY SUBDIVISION WITH TWO OUTLOTS, LOCATED AT THE NORTH TERMINUS OF WILD PRAIRIE DRIVE AND THE WEST TERMINUS OF DUCK CREEK DRIVE. (SUB01-00022) Franklin/Okay, and then the last item is the preliminary plat of Wild Prairie Estates Part 4, which is 22 lots north of Weber school, in that neighborhood, recommended by the Commission 6-0. No issues. Lehman/Okay thank you. Vanderhoef/There's a, there was a street thing that I couldn't tell from the map where it goes, which one is that? I can't read it now. Franklin/Would that help there? It's connecting Duck Creek. Vanderhoef/Wild Prairie Drive. Franklin/And Wild Prairie Drive. Vanderhoef/When it comes down there. Franklin/Right here. Vanderhoef/And it connects. Franklin/And Duck Creek over here. Vanderhoef/Okay but where's the street then that will head on into that northwest section? Franklin/Right here. Vanderhoef/But will there be one for the south? South of say lot 20, no lot 90. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 24 Franklin/It's right here in the, it's not in this subdivision, it's in another section of Wild Prairie Estates, it comes right up here. Vanderhoef/Is that a section that's hasn't been? Larry Schnittj er/There's another one to the noaheast of that. Franklin/Noah, oh right there, is that right Larry? Schnittjer/Yes. Vanderhoef/Oh okay, good, that' s what I. Franklin/One, two. Vanderhoef/But they're all off set pretty much, well the one to the south isn't but the others are offset. Franklin/Okay. Kanner/Now the comprehensive plan says inspired use housing, or mixed housing types, I would assume that's for the whole city, that's part of the comprehensive plan. Franklin/Right. Kanner/I, I was wondering if you could talk for a minute how we might accomplish that, it seems that we're doing more of the same, sort of a sprawl inducing half acre lots, single families, east of 218, I don't see an end in site of that. How, what's the proposal for getting some sort of mixed housing? Perhaps zero lot lines. Franklin/We have had, obviously much of it is market choice, this right here is. Vanderhoef/Multiple. Franklin/Attached units, fight here in this triangle. And then in the proposal for the continuation of Southwest Estates, this is the one where there's the pool, there is, as I recall in that concept plan there are some townhouses that are proposed along Rohret Road, there's another cluster of something and I just can't remember what it is Steven that is farther north on here as Phoenix goes on through. And so this large area is one in which we've seen, at least in the conceptual plan stages, nothing has been adopted yet or come through you, some proposals for mixes and different housing types. But your right a lot of this is single family. Pfab/And when your close to a school there it's, it would be an opportunity for some mixed housing that's (can't hear). This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 25 Franklin/You know there are some, it's still single family detached, there are some smaller lots in here, in some of these, some where have been existing, along Duck Creek and this area here. Kanner/If we had the money what would the density level be that's, what the density level be needed for bus, public transit out there? If we wanted to have a route, you need a certain density, I don't know if you would have that answer. Franklin/I don't have that answer. Kanner/But it seems that, but I've had a few people say they'd like to have some bus transportation out there, at the freeway there, basically, Mormon Trek and we have to think about some higher density perhaps and we'll be able to look at that with the Southwest plan coming to us especially if we're hoping to make lower density to the east there, some sort of trade off perhaps. Vanderhoef/To the east or to the west? Kanner/To the east, and that, I mean we're talking about down zoning in Harlocke- Weeber and that area and that's very dense there. Vanderhoef/Oh, okay. Kanner/And so I would think that we would need some higher density to the west in some of this area here, and see if we can get public transit out there eventually. Franklin/Okay. Lehman/Okay. Agenda items. (END OF 01-97 SIDE TWO) Agenda Items 1. ITEM NO. 7. AMENDING THE IOWA CITY UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE BY ESTABLISHING A TEMPORARY MORATORIUM ON DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE AREA ROUGHLY CIRCUMSCRIBED BY MILLER AVENUE, U. S. HIGHWAY 1, HARLOCKE STREET, AND BENTON STREET IN IOWA CITY, IOWA. Lehman/Yea let's talk about Item 7, tomorrow night will be public discussion on the moratorium for the area south of Benton Street between Miller and Weeber and Highway 1. We also have. Do we have a plan, I mean we have it on first consideration tomorrow night, is that appropriate? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 26 Franklin/Yes, I mean the notion was that we'd send out notice which we did. Lehman/Okay. Franklin/To the property owners, tomorrow night is for you to listen and decide if you want to go ahead with the moratorium or not. Lehman/Okay, now the state law allows us to do a 12 month moratorium is that correct? Franklin/I don't think the law specifies an amount of time for a moratorium. Dilkes/No, I think your looking at, we've excluded certain properties that have already been subject to moratorium and that's per city code. Lehman/Okay but I guess the date of September I which is. Franklin/That was based upon the time it was going to take us to go through the Southwest District planning process and adopt that Southwest District Plan as well as to do rezonings as a consequence of that plan. That's one of the things that we're going to start doing now when we have our district plans adopted is bring zoning proposals to you that will implement those plans. Lehman/In other words we'll zone the property to match the plan instead of showing something that. Franklin/That' s the idea. Lehman/Probably a good idea. Vanderhoef/Is them any chance of doing it sooner than 12 months? Franklin/Yea, I mean we'll try, we had the first meeting last Thursday of the Southwest District, by the way there were almost 100 people there. We had 160 people registered and not everybody showed up and that was sending out 3,500 notices to people, it's a big district. And so it was a very good turnout and from reports of the staff it was very successful. The plan is for them to meet again on the 271h tentatively depending upon what' s happening at the Council, so it's moving along. Lehman/How many meetings will they have? Franklin/Well typically what's done is we have a couple meetings with the neighborhood planning groups and then the staff takes all of that from the planning groups and starts developing the actual plan. Then goes back to the neighborhood with that and reviews it with them before it starts going through the formal approval This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 27 process. One of the things that's going to be identified this time is if there are key areas that need a close look and obviously the Harlocke Weeber is one of them, whether this moratorium happens or not. So there's not, in many respects it's good for everybody to have a sense of looking at the whole thing but there's often some people who are much more focused on one part of it so that' s how we're proceeding. Pfab/I guess I have a question, I was at that and you hear different things. At what point, or what's the balance between what the city staff, what's in the mind's eyes of city staff and what the neighborhood people really want? In other words what the people. Franklin/Well a good example of that I think lrvin is in the Northeast District Plan with the First Avenue debate. Pfab/That' s what I was thinking of too. Franklin/You know you have the discussions during that whole process of coming up with a plan and different options being brought up. We as a staff, as a professional staff will always make recommendations to the Planning & Zoning Commission and to the Council on issues that we believe are critical planning issues and in that case we believe that First Avenue was a critical transportation planning issue and did not necessarily come to the same conclusions as many of the people in the Northeast planning district and I think we made that pretty clear to people that that was the position that we were going to take which was not to say that you can not have a proposal brought forth that is, as was in the case of the Northeast District Plan a citizens proposal, there was a citizens proposal, there was a staff proposal and that's how it went then through the Planning & Zoning Commission and the City Cotmcil. With the other districts, it hasn't, there hasn't been a key issue like that that we felt that there was a critical issue that we as professionals had to recommend a certain thing and so we've basically gone with what has happened in the planning workshops. Pfab/Okay but my point is and that was what I was referring to is at what point do you lose the citizens in that area if they feel pretty strongly about something and when push gets to shove their points of, the points that they want to bring to that lose out to. Franklin/They can always bring them forward and they should bring them forward, I mean that's where the Planning & Zoning Commission and City Council get the divergent views and have the fortunate task of making the decision. Pfab/How hard is it for a citizens group to maintain their interest in an area if the city staff starts pushing against them? At what point do they? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 28 Franklin/We're not pushing against them, we are providing an altemative viewpoint, we never discourage anybody from going forward with what they think should be put before the Commission and Council. Pfab/Okay so where, at what point does that, okay let' s suppose the citizens feel very strongly because they live there, it's their place, and the staff and, I'm not to say the staff. Franklin/Okay we will help them bring it through the process, just as we did with the Northeast District Plan, we will work with the people in terms what the process is for taking it through the Planning & Zoning Commission, taking it through the City Council, and we pull in the full staff, the neighborhood, Marcia gets involved in that, and we have the Urban Planning staff that's doing the professional planning proposal, Marsha works with the neighborhood group or the interest group that wants to take it through, we enable them to take it through whatever the process might be. Pfab/Okay so, all right, let' s continue on just a second here, at what point did the citizen' s group in the northeast section lose out to what the concept was that the staff felt it was important? Franklin/At the Council. Pfab/At the Council. Franklin/The Council had two things before them, they had the citizen plan and the proposal from the staff and from the Planning & Zoning Commission. Pfab/So in other words if the citizens don't, are, come up on the short end of their argument versus the staff argument is that the right words? Franklin/Well I don't know that I'd express it that way but go ahead. Pfab/Proposal, I'm not, I'm trying to be neutral on it but I mean in a sense so that's where their going to, that's where their going to have to count on getting the support to see that their interest in their community are going to be protected. Franklin/Right you have to take your view on some issues through the whole process of the Commission, you take it to the planning workshops, convincing your fellow citizens, you take it through the Planning & Zoning Commission, you take it before the City Council, and ultimately the Council is going to make that decision. Pfab/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 29 Kanner/Two things, one for Karin and one for the rest of us. I'm sure we'll hear a lot of pros and cons tomorrow from homeowners and developers, have you heard anything in your office from homeowners or developers about adverse affects from this moratorium? Franklin/The only people that I'm aware we've heard from is from Chuck Meardon an attorney for the Ruppert Family but I just don't know if we've heard anything else at this point. Kanner/Or (can't hear) against the moratorium in general. Franklin/Pardon me. Kanner/That person, the Ruppert's were arguing okay. Franklin/Yea I think they expressed that in a letter to City Cotmcil. Lehman/Yes. Vanderhoef/To Council. Kanner/And I also sat in and heard what people were saying at the Southwest District Planning and what we probably all heard a great concern about what' s going to happen with the poor farm and people had a lot of good ideas of what could happen there. And apparently from talking to staff we have control over zoning of that even though the, it's zoned public now and so I would ask that we keep in mind at the next joint meeting that that would be something we talking about with the County. And also perhaps in regard to our 28E agreement with the Senior Center that maybe we could have a partnership with the County out at the poor farm just like they have a partnership with us in the Senior Center it could be to both of our benefits if that works out. So hopefully at the next joint, I'll bring that up and we can talk about that at the joint meeting. Lehman/Okay. Any other agenda items? ITEM 10. AMENDING TITLE 6 OF THE CITY CODE, ENTITLED "PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY" BY REPEALING CHAPTER 7, ENTITLED "SMOKING IN PUBLIC PLACES" AND ENACTING A NEW CHAPTER 7, ENTITLED "SMOKING IN FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS." Vanderhoef/I just have a question to be sure I'm clear on the definition of public place according to the Iowa Code, the way I'm reading our ordinance is that we're using the Iowa Code definition and that excludes restaurants that are under 50. Champion/Oh your talking about the smoking ordinance (can't hear). This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 30 Kanner/Number 10 yea. Vanderhoef/Under 50 places. Champion/Right. Dilkes/Correct. Vanderhoef/Okay then what I will say to Council now and we can talk about it tomorrow night, number one I would rather have our own definition of restaurants that would include all places that are serving food and not exclude those that are 50 seats and under, I think those people should also be in the non smoking group. Wilburn/Serving food for on site. Dilkes/I think as I pointed out in the memo that was the definition that CAFE presented their definition of public place, they did alter the state definition somewhat, I think we need to be cautious about that as the Attorney General' s opinion specifically stated in a footnote that they were not giving an opinion on an ordinance that changed the definition of public place. Vanderhoef/I understand that. Dilkes/So we will not be able to rely specifically on the Attorney General's opinion nor on any favorable result in the Ames lawsuit because they use the public place definition. Vanderhoef/They use the. Dilkes/They use the state public place definition. Vanderhoef/So they use the, so those restaurants that are 50 seats or less are not included in the ordinance. Dilkes/In ours or in Ames? Vanderhoef/Either one. Dilkes/Yes, if you use the public place definition as defined by state code it excludes restaurants with seating capacity of less than 50. Vanderhoef/And you say you caution us in changing that in our ordinance, do you not think it would not be defensible to say that in the public good and probably because of the reason that the 50 seat restaurant was identified through the Clean This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 31 Air Act that we couldn't get a favorable opinion from the Attorney General? I know you can't say we will but when they put that out they were thinking in terms of trying to divide a very small restaurant into having smoking section and a non smoking section and they decided that that wasn't possible in such a small section. Well I think if we're outlawing smoking section, nonsmoking section in restaurants across the board then we should. Dilkes/I think there are certainly good arguments to be made, some along those lines, I just thought it important to caution you since we embarked on this entire thing following the Attorney General' s opinion that that opinion was specifically limited to those ordinances that use the same definition of public place so. No I think there are definitely arguments to be made, I'm not saying there are not. Vanderhoef/Well I understand it and my preference will be for us to define it our own so think about it folks. Pfab/So Dee I would support where your coming from, so at this point would it be smart to suggest that the City Attorney come up with the wording that we want then? Vanderhoeff I just think that all restaurants and take out reference to the. Pfab/You said all restaurants, earlier you said anybody that serves food now does serve food? Vanderhoef/Well as we define restaurants. Pfab/Okay, all right. Vanderhoef/So we're not going to use the Iowa Code definition of public place. Pfab/Okay because when you had said serve food what you meant as a restaurant. Dilkes/No what she's saying is that as I have currently drafted this ordinance you need two things for the no smoking prohibition to apply, number one it needs to be a public place under state law and number two it must be a place that prepares or serves food for on premise consumption and Dee is talking about altering the definition of public place. Pfab/Right, I support that, the other, there was one other point as long as your into that and that was in the ordinance there was a case where a is it a fine, is that the term your using for a smoker is $25.007 Vanderhoef/A municipal fine. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 32 Pfab/Yea, is that something that should something that should have an escalator in it for somebody that keeps doing it? Dilkes/I'm sorry I can't hear you Irvin. Pfab/In other words if a. Vanderhoef/For a smoker. Pfab/If an establishment keeps doing it, it gets progressively more expensive and if the smoker continues to do it it's just $25.00, and they say well the heck with it. Lehman/What Irvin's asking about is an escalated schedule for fines. Vanderhoef/Misdemeanor, on the misdemeanor to the smoker. Dilkes/I think that's possible, I think you need to the think about how the probability that the same person is going to smoke in the same case the second time and the issues about keeping track for enforcement purposes, I know that's been a tough issue for. Pfab/Once they're convicted it's public record isn't it? Dilkes/Well you can do whatever you want with it I'm just. Pfab/But I mean that's just something I wanted to bring up as a thought. Champion/How have you ever noticed smokers smoking in a place they weren't allowed to? I don't know I mean that's making big (can't hear). Lehman/Well we'll get that, any other agenda items? Dilkes/I mean we would, I guess what I'm saying for enforcement purposes we would have to keep track of the person who smoked, where they smoked. Champion/Right. Dilkes/In order to cite them and we'd have to have that information available when we did the citation and I know that would be a tricky enforcement. Lehman/Okay. Vanderhoef/The other thing that I'm going to offer an amendment tomorrow night, I know we talked about it two weeks ago and I've had more input and I've had more time to think about it and I really think we came up with the 65/35 sort of This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 33 arbitrarily and it sort of surprised me actually when it came up two weeks ago and I had been thinking all along that I wanted the 50 percent mark between gross sales for alcohol and restaurants so I will propose that we go back to the 50 percent. I think it's the fairest thing we can do and I truly believe that it's the most defensible thing and if we're looking at public health then this is where to go. Lehman/Okay, we'll talk about it tomorrow night. Pfab/I'll be happy to support you on that. Kanner/Is that a substantial change if that would happen, that amendment were offered to go to 50 percent that we would have to postpone voting on it or could that amendment be offered and voted on tomorrow night? Dilkes/No that can be offered and voted on because there' s no public hearing required, it's just a public discussion. Lehman/Right. Karmer/Dee were you finished? O'Donnell/Well we're going to have some of the places. Lehman/We'll talk about that tomorrow night, I consider that. O'Donnell/(Can't hear) It's already in the papers that it's going to be 65, that's a substantial (can't hear) notice. Dilkes/I mean you still have your two more votes after that point so that' s. Lehman/Steven. ITEM 4d(1). CONSIDER A RESOLUTION RATIFYING THE FILING OF AN APPLICATION WITH THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS FOR AMERICAN SPIRIT GRANT FUNDS. Kanner/Number 4d(1) I guess tomorrow night I was going to ask Karin if you could just explain a little bit to the public about the cultural grant we were applying for. Franklin/(can't hear) tomorrow night. Kanner/Yea if you wouldn't mind. What? Franklin/(can't hear). This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 34 Kanner/It sounds pretty exciting what's happening and I think it's good we get it out there and let people know what's happening as much as possible. ITEM 4e(3) CORRESPONDENCE. Jody Bailey: Construction on Bjaysville (staff response included). Kanner/And then 4e(3) we had a long letter from Jody Bailey and in regards to extension of Foster Road and we had a reply from our person in engineering saying that the contractor failed to provide parking as required in the contract. It seems to me that if we're finding that the contractor failed to follow the contract that perhaps we should have the contractor compensate the neighbors for the inconvenience in some way. Did folks get a chance to mad that letter? She was one pissed off person. Champion/I don't blame her (can't hear). Pfab/And if you go out they still don't have a place to park. Kanner/And so I think we need to talk about compensation in some way to see if we can make it right for what happened the last six months or so especially if the contractor, if we're saying the contractor is to blame, so I was wondering if people had any thoughts on that. Pfab/I think that's very much in order. Lehman/I would want to know a little more about it before I'd be willing to look at compensation but I think we did respond to. Steve are you familiar with this? Atkins/Yea, we wrote a detailed response. Lehman/Right I saw the response. I mean is it being addressed? I mean I don't know the degree of(can't hear) or how much of it could have been adverted I don't think that's very clear. Atkins/Yea it's a difficulty in calculating the compensation, and how would you go about that? I'm not sure, I've never done that. Lehman/No, and I don't know, they didn't provide the parking but sometimes them are reasons, I guess we should, if we're thinking about that I think we need a little more information than. Atkins/Why don't I check tomorrow morning, because I think it was Roxanne that wrote the letter. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 35 Pfab/Do you want this person to come to the public hearing tomorrow night? Lehman/I think it would be best if we find out a little more about it first. I mean we have people on the staff, inspectors and (can't hear). Arkins/And let me, there may have been things done. Pfab/I went out and talked to her and I spent a fair amount of time looking at what her situation was there, she had a complaint, she was right. Lehman/Yea, well I think that's something we can. Atkins/There may have been matters occurred since the writing of the letter that I'm not aware of but I'll find that out for you tomorrow. Lehman/Okay. Kanner/Can we at our next work session you know just get a report or something in our packet about whaCs up and see if we want to take it further? Arkins/That's fine I'll be happy to do it. Kanner/Thank you. ITEM NO. 12. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE PROVIDING THAT GENERAL PROPERTY TAXES LEVIED AND COLLECTED EACH YEAR ON ALL PROPERTY LOCATED WITHIN THE CITY-UNIVERSITY PROJECT I (PROJECT NO. IA R-14) URBAN RENEWAL PLAN AREA OF THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, COUNTY OF JOHNSON, STATE OF IOWA, BY AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE STATE OF IOWA, CITY OF IOWA CITY, COUNTY OF JOHNSON, IOWA CITY COMMUNITY SCHOOL DISTRICT AND OTHER TAX PAYING DISTRICTS, BE PAID TO A SPECIAL FUND FOR PAYMENT OF PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST ON LOANS, MONIES ADVANCED TO AND INDEBTEDNESS, INCLUDING BONDS ISSUED OR TO BE ISSUED, INCURRED BY SAID CITY IN CONNECTION WITH THE AMENDED CITY- UNIVERSITY PROJECT I (PROJECT NO. IA R-14) URBAN RENEWAL REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT. (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Kanner/Let's see, Number 11, in our packet. Lehman/This is the urban renewal? Kanner/Yea the urban renewal here. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 36 Lehman/Right. Kanner/It says in our Comprehensive Plan that tax incentives are appropriate but I was looking in the downtown part and I didn't see that and maybe Karin I don't know if you would point out where it talks about in the downtown area in the Comprehensive Plan or maybe by tomorrow, let me know. Franklin/(can't hear). Kanner/Okay I looked in the downtown part and I didn't see anything on about this and apparently so for this possible TIF's these are different than the urban revitalization that we offer is that correct Steve? Atkins/Yes. Kanner/So these will have no limits basically except that we put on them. Atkins/No I think there's limits yea. Kanner/Well from what I read it, we had three in 10 year schedules. Atkins/Yea, that's law. Kanner/Currently but this will not have those type of limits in theory unless we want to put them on there. Atkins/That's not (can't hear). Franklin/Yes but it's limited, tax increment financing is limited by the taxes that are generated by the project so it's not right to say that it's unlimited except for what you agree to because you really, I can't imagine a circumstance in which you would grant tax increment financing beyond the capacity of the tax revenue to pay it back, we'd never get it passed our Bond Council. Lehman/Right. Arkins/Yea you couldn't get it passed Bond Counsel. Franklin/So even if you chose to do it. Atkins/Now I understand what your saying that you can't do the TIF more than the value that's. Franklin/Right, it's behind it, we couldn't sell the bond. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 37 Atkins/But you could choose to use other public money but that's certainly your choice. Kanner/But at the time there's no time limit, such as the three and 10 year, isn't that a state time limit? Franklin/Yes your fight. Atkins/That' s correct. Kanner/But for this we could in theory go on for decades if we wanted to. Franklin/It could. Atkins/It could, in fact that's one of the complaints about TIF Steven now in the state legislature, we've never done anything but them has been a couple cities that have just had to virtually keep renewing the thing. And usually it's the face, it's the schedule of the bond, that's usually the life of the TIF. Kanner/So we might want to consider an amendment to put in some sort of limit for this. Atkins/(Can't hear). Lehman/Well at the time that we, that those things were done you approve each individual project and that one. Franklin/You do each individual project and there's an agreement with each individual project. Lehman/For (can't hear) yea. Franklin/What amending this would do would be to. Lehman/Limit our options. Franklin/Limit your options fight, constrain yourselves if you wish to, so yea you could do that if you wanted to. Kanner/Yea it's the same sense that like you were talking about the cemetery and that it can be changed by any Council but it sets a precedence of sorts saying this is a limit just like we set debt limits that we set by resolution, different by the state and those can be changed too so it says that we're concerned about letting future Council's go on for years and years and if they want to change it they have to make a conscious effort to do that, I think it's worth considering. Pfab/While your on that topic, are you finished with what you had to say on that? This represents only a masonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 38 Kanner/Yea. Pfab/Okay at what point is it spelled out the part of the taxes that are not rebated, or what portions of that or are we rebated? We talked about debt financing, and we talked about something else, was that ever spelled out any/ Atkins/Not in this it would be with the agreement you have with the developer I suspect. Pfab/Well why can't it be in here? Atkins/Because each project would be different. Pfab/Well I mean again. Franklin/It's always the added value, it can't be more than that. Pfab/When we talked about Finance (can't hear) cotmty department talked about she said well except the debt payment is not forgiven. Franklin/The 10 percent, the debt service. Pfab/Debt service, is that the fight word? Arkins/Yea. Franklin/Yea. Pfab/The debt service and what was it one or two other things, why can't we put that in here (can't hear)? Atkins/Okay and the school, PPL. Pfab/Yea because I mean this is so wide open and if those are built in. Franklin/But those are built in, I mean you don't have to put them in there without it, it will still happen. Lehman/You can't abate those taxes, that's not legal. Pfab/Well why don't? Lehman/Because you don't need to, it's illegal. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 39 Atkins/That' s why we get Bond Opinions, see Bond Opinion will spell out in the official statement exactly what you can and can't do. Pfab/But there are public, but this is information that goes out to the public, the public, how much of the public will understand this? Lehman/This only applies to property tax. Pfab/Right. Lehman/Which does not include the amount used to repay bonds, transit levy, library levy. Pfab/Right but shouldn't that be spelled out in there? Lehman/I don't think it's necessary. Pfab/Well I mean I think it should I mean that's what my point is, I think it's as a communication with the public I think it should be there. Kanner/In regards to the money to the zone it says we automatically whether there's a TIF or not all money goes into a special fund from property taxes for this zone, am I reading that correctly for number 12 that' s what were? Franklin/We have to incur debt first, and when we incur debt with a project then the taxes go into that special fund but until we actually incur debt. Atkins/When you incur debt you have to demonstrate to the person that bought that the bond that there's moneys available to repay the bond, that means the moneys, the tax moneys must be deposited in an account, then for disclosure purposes is identified basically somewhat like a corporate sinking fund, there's moneys that are set aside to pay off that debt. Kanner/So it's not all taxes in this zone aren't going into some special fund? Atkins/No, no. Kanner/That's what I didn't quite understand there. Pfab/What other point is (can't hear)? Kanner/On this one I had another one. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 40 ITEM NO. 13. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 9, ENTITLED "MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC," CHAPTER 8, ENTITLED "BICYCLES," SECTION 6, ENTITLED "PARKING VIOLATIONS," SUBSECTION A, ENTITLED "IMPOUNDMENT OF BICYCLES" TO ALLOW THE CITY TO IMPOUND ABANDONED BICYCLES. (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Kanner/Thirteen we're talking about impounding bikes, one how widespread is the problem? Atkins/It's not huge Steven it's a. Karmer/Rough number for year. Atkins/Ten, I mean you'll see them downtown and usually the most telling thing is when the snow flies there's a bike sticking out of it and we take the bike, put it in storage if someone can come and identify it we're more than, we'll release it just like we would really any other bicycle but occasionally you'll see them damaged and need a bolt cutter to cut the chain and get the thing off. But it is not a huge problem, it's just not an attractive one if it's not taken care of. Kanner/And I think you had said in the memo that by tradition, or by law if we pass this they have, if it's there seven days we can take it. Lehman/No we ticket it and wait we wait another seven days. Kanner/Well that' s the tradition, the tradition is we wait another seven is it? Arkins/Yea. Lehman/The total is 14 days. Kanner/So I was wondering if we could put that extra seven in there so we ticket them after seven days and then we wait seven days, that's not in the ordinance. Arkins/I personally have no trouble with that. Kanner/Is that correct? Lehman/I don't know it's in the comment section. Kanner/Yea but it's I don't think it's. This represents only a masonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 41 Vanderhoef/It's the intent. Atkins/I thought the intent was seven and seven. Vanderhoef/Yea. Kanner/But I don't think it's in there. Champion/Yea it is. Lehman/No the ordinance, we're just reading the comment section. Dilkes/That's not something I'm familiar with so without talking to (can't hear) specifically about that I couldn't respond to that. Lehman/The comment says if a bicycle is abandoned that after seven days the city will ticket the bicycle and if it is not removed within seven days after it is tagged it then will be impounded, now I guess the important thing is that the ordinance says that we will not tag that bike for seven days nor will we impound it for an additional seven days. Atkins/Steven I'll confirm that for you tomorrow night. Lehman/Well I think that should be very clear. Kanner/It should be, so hopefully tomorrow we'll. Atkins/I'll do my best to find out for you. Kanner/We'll see and if it's not perhaps we can offer an ordinance to do that. Atkins/Yes you can. Lehman/An amendment. Kanner/An amendment. ITEM NO. 16. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING FEES FOR SERVICES AND ACTIVITIES OF THE IOWA CITY HOUSiNG AND iNSPECTION SERVICES DEPARTMENT. Atkins/If while your thinking about it I did want to raise Item 16 because Doug is here on fees, allow him to comment on that for you. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 42 Karmer/Well I had a question anyhow for you, I'll say while your coming up here. Could we get the current fees now, did we get that (can't hear)? Lehman/Yea it did not come. Pfab/I think that came in tonight's packet, I had seen it before. Kanner/Well that's from someone else I think we. Pfab/Well this one, isn't this it? Kanner/Well that's not from Doug. Atkins/Well I think what your going to hear Doug say may change, go ahead Doug. Lehman/Go ahead Doug. Doug Boothroy/Well I can tell you what the current fees are if you'd like, for structures it's $56.00, for units it's $8.00 and for bedrooms it's $2.00. Lehman/It's the same. Kanner/I like heating it from our guy. Boothroy/(Can't hear) got that, but anyway, what I'm going to, tomorrow night you've got a resolution on for consideration for a fee proposal that we worked on and discussed with the department owners association, in the interim Ed Barker suggested a different alternative, we got that Friday afternoon, it looks to be, to take out some of the variance between the differences that he was describing in his letter. We'd like to look at it and get back to you on the 271h and so we're suggesting that you defer action on the resolution so we have more time to give that more review. Vanderhoef/Until the 27? Lehman/271h. Boothroy/Until your next meeting which I think is the 271h. Pfab/From what I looked at and compared them I think the proposal you made I would be a lot more in favor of that than. Boothroy/Well we'll get back to you with a recommendation on the 271h. Lehman/All right. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 43 Vanderhoef/Doug define for me please, structure. Boothroy/It's a building. Vanderhoef/But when you have a flat fee, could this be a 100 unit apartment building or a two unit duplex and there's still a structure and it's still $70.00 for each. Boothroy/It's per building yes, that's correct. Vanderhoef/I have a problem with that. Pfab/Well why that's why you have the bedrooms addition in that. Vanderhoef/I understand that. Kanner/So you get charged for the structure and then you get charged for the unit and then you get charged for the bedroom. Boothroy/Keep in mind a duplex is every three years so it's a far, it's only, it's a longer. Vanderhoef/All right a four plex. Boothroy/Okay, well these are flat fees and ultimately you can decide how you want to deal with them, we'll look at the proposal, the last time, the one that we, that you have before you now we took back to the Greater Iowa City Apartment Homeowners Association, that's their recommendation. Ed's come up with some additional ones, we want to talk to them about this, see if they support these as well and we'll come back to you on the 27th. Champion/Okay Lehman/Okay thank you Doug. Kanner/Just to clad& Dee what you were saying, if both two structures have four dwelling units but one is twice as big as the other, your thinking that maybe there should be some sort of compensation for the different sizes. Champion/Well there is though. VanderhoefJ Well when you have a 100 unit apartment building and you have a four plex and you still charge $70.00 for each building. Champion/But that' s just to get there right? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 44 Kanner/No there is a different charge for the dwelling unit. Pfab/And the bedroom. Vanderhoeff But you still are inspecting exterior. Kanner/So maybe there should be something for the size of a place, the physical size. Vanderhoef/That' s what I was wondering and I was clarified that one structure is one structure. Boothroy/(can't hear). Kanner/Are there other cities that use size variance to as part of the price, the administrative fee? Boothroy/There's lots of alternatives, most of them are all flat fees, and there are, we've been using this particular fee structure for a good number of years. Champion/But our goal is. Boothroy/There are innumerable variations, we could spend as much time as you want going through these variations. Kanner/Could you just in our packet in the next couple weeks, in the next week or so give one example of one that uses fees based on a city that uses fees based on different sizes? Boothroy/Well this does too, because we use bedrooms and number of units so it does into account different size. Kanner/Well not physical size though. Boothroy/Well, okay. Kanner/I mean it could, you could still have something. Boothroy/We have a four unit two bedroom, with two bedrooms is a lot smaller than a four unit with four units, so the physical size is different. Champion/Could I say something before we direct everybody to do a whole bunch of work? What we're after here is to get 70 percent of a divisions total budget paid for by inspections themselves and I guess as a City Council member I'm not going to start telling them to start breaking things down to five or six different levels which also takes more time and will raise expenses, we're not out to make money This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 45 on this, we're out to get a certain percentage of our budget paid for by doing this and if we work with the homeowners or the apartment building owners and other people involved and come up with something that pleases almost anybody I think we should keep our noses out of it. Lehman/And you're going to come back in two weeks with a recommendation? Kanner/Well Connie we're going to be voting on it so we can't keep our nose out of it, I'm just asking for one example if you had anything that was handy from another city that used footage, square footage as a variable. Boothroy/I' 11 look, this is fairly typical, no I don't know of any city that uses square footage. Kanner/Okay. Boothroy/That would be pretty incredible. Pfab/I have one thing. Lehman/One more thing and then we're going to break. Pfab/I'm fine, I don't have anything else for you. Boothroy/Okay. ITEM NO. 12. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE PROVIDING THAT GENERAL PROPERTY TAXES LEVIED AND COLLECTED EACH YEAR ON ALL PROPERTY LOCATED WITHIN THE CITY-UNIVERSITY PROJECT I (PROJECT NO. IA R-14) URBAN RENEWAL PLAN AREA OF THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, COUNTY OF JOHNSON, STATE OF IOWA, BY AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE STATE OF IOWA, CITY OF IOWA CITY, COUNTY OF JOHNSON, IOWA CITY COMMUNITY SCHOOL DISTRICT AND OTHER TAX PAYING DISTRICTS, BE PAID TO A SPECIAL FUND FOR PAYMENT OF PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST ON LOANS, MONIES ADVANCED TO AND INDEBTEDNESS, INCLUDING BONDS ISSUED OR TO BE ISSUED, INCURRED BY SAID CITY IN CONNECTION WITH THE AMENDED CITY- UNIVERSITY PROJECT I (PROJECT NO. IA R-14) URBAN RENEWAL REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT. (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Pfab/Okay back to this on the TIF for downtown previously there was a tax forgiveness in the urban (can't hear), this is a tax rebate, right? Not a, does the other one disappear when this comes in? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 46 Franklin/This is for Tax Increment Financing which can be in the form of a rebate or can be in the form of selling TIF bonds and those bonds going towards construction costs for either public improvements or private improvements and paid back by the taxes, abatement is also available in the downtown, it is available only for commercial development and you wouldn't use abatement and Tax Increment Financing at the same time. Pfab/So under certain properties if we make this change, if we approve this change there will still be options for some properties and they'll go either way. Lehman/Right. Franklin/Yes it's a different tool, that' s basically what it is, it allows us a different tool to use as incentives for development in the downtown. Pfab/But not at the same time, I mean the same (can't hear). Franklin/No it just doesn't make sense to do them at the same time. Pfab/Okay that was my point. Lehman/Okay guys we're going to break for. (BREAK) City Steins Amendment (ITEM NO. 15. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AMENDING IOWA CITY'S 2001-2006 CONSOLIDATED PLAN (A.K.A. CITY STEPS) Lehman/Are we turned on? Karr/I'm testing tape first. Lehman/Okay thank you Marian. City Steps, Steve. O'Donnell/(Can't hear). Steve Nasby/City Steps, the Council's Economic Development Sub Committee had requested that we change the City Steps amendment or the City Steps plan to increase the funds that we use for economic development, the current earmark was five percent, the Council Commission recommended nine percent. We've had three public hearings, one was held by the Council, two were held by the Housing and Community Development Commission, they did vote to not recomxnend the increase in funding, the minutes fi'om the September 20th meeting where we had the comments are included in your packet and there' s also a staff memo in your packet that I put together. If the Council should choose to increase the set aside This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 47 for economic development there needs to be a corresponding reduction in some of the other activities. Staff is recommended that we reduce the budget in contingency from two percent to zero because throughout the year we might get some program income and have some programs fail and then also maybe reduce the housing earmarks since that's 52 percent we would take that back to 50 and there' s really no good activity to cut from but that one does have some options as far as generating revenue from other sources where public facilities, public services don't have those options. Pfab/Okay I was under the impression that they voted not to increase it. Lehman/That's what he just said. Nasby/They voted to deny. Pfab/Okay so why are we looking at other places to? Nasby/Should the Council want to not abide by the Commission' s decision and go through with the recommendation you will need an offsetting cut, if the Council does not want to pursue the additional no other changes are necessary in the plan. Kanner/He's sort of playing, has two hats of a sort, one representing HCDC, the other is staff recommendation of what might be done. Nasby/Yea I wanted to give you another alternative if Council decides to push through with this. Vanderhoef/Steve I know you have given us the figure before but I don't recall how much money do we generate coming back into the city from paid off grants or recaptured funds? Nasby/Since most of it comes through Housing Rehab program it comes in big chunks more often than not, in the last couple of years we've had between $125,000 and $200,000 a year come in. Now what we did earlier in the year, or actually it was earlier last year we set aside the rchab program and allowed them to keep their income, so we're looking at non rehab income of about $35,000 so that would be the moneys we would have in contingency. Vanderhoef/And that' s usually takes care of our contingency emergency requests? Nasby/Yea in the past couple years we haven't had very many, this year we actually, we have had some small cost overrims that we've granted, and we've run through $27-28,000 in contingency but in a normal year $30,000 should handle it. Vanderhoef/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 48 Kanner/A couple things. When we get, when we vote on a resolution that goes through P & Z we get their recommendation and the resolution, is there a reason we don't have HCDC's recommendation in the resolution? Nasby/No, in the memo I put together you got their recommendation, also in the minutes. Kanner/In our official resolution that we vote on with the whereas' s for P & Z we normally get that, I think it would be appropriate to put in HCDC's recommendation into the resolution. Nasby/Okay. Kanner/So for the record it would state that we're voting on a resolution. Champion/You mean the comment section. Karmer/No in the whereas's of the resolution that goes through P & Z it says whereas, you look at any resolution we have for tomorrow night, it says P & Z has approved or I think there was one instance where they or two where they disapproved, I think it would be good to put HCDC in there too. And we have also a resolution that we meet with P & Z before we vote against their recommendation. But we don't have anything similar like that. Nasby/You do not have that resolution with the Housing and Commtmity Development Commission. Kanner/Is there a request at all by them to talk to us about this if we go ahead to, plan to go ahead and vote for it? Nasby/Well we had the public heating, one of them held by the Council and there was no comment from them at that point. They had not expressed an interest of having a joint meeting, they put forth their recommendation to you now kind of depending what your action is you know their opinion will change but as of right now. Vanderhoef/As a representative of the Economic Development Committee I attended their meeting to answer questions for them and so there has been some, I took forward the recommendation of the Economic Development Committee. Kanner/I understand that but they haven't met with the full Council in any kind of official way, I think it might be helpful to do that just like we have a resolution to meet with P & Z, it makes sense to do it with them too. Nasby/It's up to the Council' s wish. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 49 Champion/I don't think that's necessary. Lehman/I don't see the need for that, is there other Council people who? Pfab/I would think if we're going to go against them, is their recommendations any different than Planning & Zoning? Lehman/Yea I think it is, Planning & Zoning's is required by law. Vanderhoef/And Planning & Zoning makes their recommendations according to the law that's on the book as they interpret the zoning laws. Pfab/Well HCDC is also following the law as they see it, as the law is there, where that money is suppose to go. Kanner/It just seems like the polite thing to do to meet with them if the plan is to vote against them, I would hope the Council would consider that if that is the way the vote goes. The other question I had Steve is that one of the purposes of setting up this fund from looking at the City Council Economic Development's Commission minutes and attending their meetings is that there would be a fund that could be administered throughout the year and it would make it more attractive to people. I would propose that that could be done with HCDC also, couldn't that be done? Is there anything that would stop them from doing that? Setting a resolution with setting, set up saying that Economic Development funds would be available throughout the year. Vanderhoef/There's another piece to that though Steven in that if it goes back to HCDC it can't go back until the next funding cycle and that was another big point of having the Council do this is that we could have the dollars available when a project came in and wouldn't have to do it all at that one funding cycle times so. Kanner/Well I'm not so sure Dee that that's the case, couldn't it be done throughout the year like City Council is attempting to do? Nasby/To answer your question, there's nothing prohibiting the Housing Community Development Commission from setting up a separate fund in doing the same thing. However their desire hadn't been to do that because they're not open to having a monthly process, they don't want to be evaluating applications monthly. Karmer/But has it been discussed in that sense of doing this? I think, when I read their minutes all I see is that the question is whether or not City Council should have that, I've never seen the discussion of whether or not HCDC do it, I think their more appropriate to have, to look at this for CDBG funds as the initial filter. It all comes to us no matter what but I think to go through City Council commission is not the best use. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 50 Lehman/I think the City Council and the Economic Development Committee are much better equipped to handle Economic Development requests than HCDC is. Kanner/Well we'll talk about that tomorrow some more I guess, but we're talking only CDBG funds here, not necessarily the Economic Development. Lehman/No, no, no that' s exactly what I'm talking about, the Economic Development funds that are allocated by HCDC, I think the Economic Development Committee of the Council and the Council would probably be able to distribute those funds. I mean I think they do a wonderful job on housing and some social issues, I'm not sure based even and you look at the applications they they've received over the years, last year you did fund the. Nasby/We did the uptown bills, small mall and the new Ruby's Pearl. Lehman/Yea what $130,000. Karmer/$120,000. Nasby/Yea $125,000. Kanner/The one thing that was asked I did notice from the Commission at least one of the members is to have representation or some participation and decision making from at least someone from HCDC which I still think is, if we don't go full. (END OF 01-101, SIDE ONE) Kanner/Perspective. Lehman/Oh I would think that we would have every reason to listen to any recommendation that we have on Economic Development Fund, I don't know why we wouldn't. Kanner/But basically we're taking it away from them at an official capacity. Lehman/Right. Kanner/Right, so I'm saying an official capacity, one of the people recommended that an official capacity that someone from HCDC be part of the decision making recommendation and I think that' s a good idea at a minimum to have at least on representative from HCDC because they come from a perspective that is slightly different than City Council Economic Development Commission. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 51 Lehman/I agree with you which is why I think Economic Development funds would be better handled by the Economic Development Committee and the Council, I think our perspective is Economic Development and spending that money in a fashion that perhaps is an investment in the commtmity and for which monies can come back into the community so it's money that is not just spent and gone it's money that can work for the commtmity. And I think that's a perspective that we have a little different than what they have and certainly what t hey do is incredibly important but I think the Economic Development portion of that is better handled by a committee who's purpose is Economic Development, but anyway we'll. Pfab/But my question is are those funds really designed, was the concept of CDBG money to do Economic Development or is to help a certain level of people that normally miss out on this? Lehman/Well I think that Economic Development can help some of those people that miss out on, there are guidelines you have to follow for HCDC, I mean this isn't us taking money and deciding to give it to whoever comes along, they have to meet rather stringent guidelines that are. Nasby/Yea the same guidelines will apply to whoever administers the money that it has to benefit low to moderate income persons whether HCDC does it or whether the Council Committee does it. Pfab/Well isn't the HCDC a lot, have a lot more expertise in that area than I mean you want to work with like Procter & Gamble and (can't hear). Lehman/No, no, no, they won't qualify. Pfab/That's what I'm saying works in larger businesses, but these are where the small person gets the toll in a start of business, and really small businesses are what drive this economy. Lehman/I think that's what we're thinking about. Nasby/It's my understanding. Pfab/Then why don't you let them do it? That's what my point is. Nasby/Well it was my understanding that the ED Committee and the fund that you set up would take over all of the activities, that included job training, small business, micro enterprise and larger corporation. Pfab/And I have difficulty with that. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 52 Kanner/Well this might be a myth but sort of going along with what Irvin's saying is my thoughts are City Council Economic Development Committee is going to tend to look at perhaps bigger businesses versus HCDC might be more prone to giving more consideration to micro enterprises, and my question for you is do you have anything for me that looking on the benefits of micro enterprise development how it affects the growth of the city versus large development? I know on the wo~d wide level the big thing now is micro loans to people and it's really beneficial to give an impoverished countries a $100.00 to women, for instance they want to start a small business and is there anything that you have any literature that looks at within cities similar of Iowa City of how micro enterprises help the business climate and the tax climate versus giving to larger business? Champion/I don't think anybody, am I wrong? I don't think anybody who would qualify for that money would be (can't hear) to Procter & Gamble. Kanner/Procter & Gamble would qualify, big places qualify, it depends who they give jobs to, it's a job creation thing. Nasby/That' s true, he's correct. Karmer/So do you have any kind of literature on that? Nasby/We haven't done a study. Kanner/Well not you but. Nasby/If you wish I could contact like Small Business Development Center or Institute for Social Development and see if they have any literature on that if your interested in that I can sure give them a call. Kanner/Well this would be more personally if it doesn't take much time. Lehman/Well but I also think that if we do in fact allocate this money to the Economic Development that the Committee should have that information. Pfab/Right I mean it's another words what your asking for is for everyone. Lehman/Yea. Pfab/All right I think that's a great idea. Nasby/Okay I'll call them tomorrow. Lehman/Are there any other questions for Steve? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 53 Vanderhoef/I have one that's on another different subject as long as Steve is here. Nasby/Okay. Vanderhoef/Has the state or have you in our programming done any kind of a survey on the number of housing traits in our greater Iowa City region that are for disabled, the senior living or the assisted living? Nasby/Well we know what we have in our market, we have done Maxfield's study and we have kind of updated numbers as far as comparison to other cities not so much. Vanderhoef/Well I guess where I'm going in it is that in particular I want to know about the number of traits, and the number of beds, and the turnover rates, and the rental rates, and the number except Section 8 vouchers for the low and moderate income and there's a rumor out there that Iowa City area is overbuilt in some of this and that there are empty units or with the new units that are coming on line that we may have too many and I got some of this from some state people a couple months ago. And so I would be interested in anything that we could find out about our regional market here before we get into the total funding cycle and bring recommendations to us because those are things I want to know before I vote on CDBG and home funds. Nasby/I know the state had been looking at that, they had the Govemor's Housing Task Force and Professor MacDonald from the University actually did a state wide study on what type of housing units that are needed in certain areas and in Iowa City it was, the main focus was on population's under 30 percent of medium income. Champion/Right. Nasby/Was her, what came out of her analysis, and if your getting, I know we had this discussion before on the number of units per seniors, persons with disabilities and that and the state has really has on a state basis kind of moving away from that a little and looking at more family housing but we can look at our numbers too. Vanderhoef/Before we allocate our home funds in particular I'd like to know that. Dilkes/Uh. Lehman/Eleanor's going to stop us. Dilkes/We've not noticed this so I think it's okay to ask him for the information but if we're going to have any discussion about it no. Vanderhoef/Okay fine. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 54 Pfab/For your personal information I think I can help you find some of that information. Vanderhoef/Well I want specifics of our region. Pfab/No, no, okay, it's not my information, I know where somebody would have it. Lehman/Thank you Steve. Nasby/Thank you. Lehman/Marian your up. 2002 Schedule Karr/This is our favorite time of year when we talk about our 2002 Council meeting schedule. Lehman/Right, get your calendars out guys. Champion/I didn't bring mine but is it? Karr/What I had done is I had prepared a memo for you just giving you a target to shoot at. Champion/Right. Karr/Not wedded to it but it is important that we do take a look at it first and foremost for the organizational meeting but secondly we will be setting public hearings and notices of Boards and vacancies. Notices that will be affected by upcoming meeting schedules as well as our budgets, so I will be happy to respond to any questions, what I did send was a memo as I said noting possible schedule for January and February, it does allow for four budget sessions and it does then set a special work session and formal meeting on the second and fourth because of the holiday. It does again enable us to return to the regular schedule in February. Vanderhoef/Well I have a conflict right off for that organizational meeting. Karr/Okay and we can certainly change that to any day and any time it must be before the 6th at noon. Vanderhoef/Well I know Eruie would have a conflict on the 4th in the morning. Lehman/Well after 9:00. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 55 Vanderhoef/Because of the radio. Lehman/After 9:00 would be okay. Vanderhoef/After 9:00 it would be okay. Lehman/Thursday is a bad day for you, the 2nd or the 4th or I don't know if we want to meet on Saturday but. Vanderhoef/Well anytime on the 2nd or 4th is fine with me but the 3rd I will be in Des Moines for the League of Cities. Karr/Okay what about, we have to meet before noon the 6th, so the 2nd, 4th, or 5th. Lehman/Does the 2nd work for everybody? Champion/Yes. Kanner/Well momings are tough for me on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, so the aftemoon works on the second. Lehman/The 2nd would work for me after, at 5:00, or we could do it on Friday. O'Donnell/After 5:30. Lehman/Well I can do that. Kanner/5:30 on the 2nd. Karr/5:30 January 2nd. Vanderhoef/No I've got Human Service and so does Irvin. Karr/Oh that' s right on Wednesdays, every Wednesday, that' s correct every Wednesday would have that. What about Friday, what about noon Friday? Vanderhoef/Or right after the radio show. Karr/Or right after radio show 9:30. Lehman/9:30 Friday the 4th. Karr/9:30 Friday the 4th. Lehman/Does that work for you Steven? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 56 Kanner/Yea. Lehman/All right 9:30 on Friday. Champion/That will be perfect. Karr/Okay 9:30 AM the 4th. Okay. Champion/The only conflict I have of all these date is the 281h I have market. Karr/Okay. Lehman/All right the regular Council meetings. Karr/Okay go ahead. Lehman/I'm sorry, we're meeting on the. Karr/It's suggested 7 and 8 and 21, 22, but 21 I just want to point out is Martin Luther King Holiday. Vanderhoef/Well if you can do that I'll say the 8th is a Hawk ball game. Lehman/Well we could, no but if we choose not to meet on the 21 st for a work session we could have the work session on the aRemoon of the 22nd. Champion/That would be fine. Karr/Again I just wanted you to know it rather than change it later if anybody. Champion/Are city offices closed on Martin Luther King? Then I don't think we should ask staff to (can't hear). Lehman/I don't think so either, why don't we. Dilkes/Like they are today. Champion/This should not have happened today. Lehman/All right Council will be on the 22nd, and the work session earlier in the aRemoon and I think the schedule will be met. Kanner/Wait, wait. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 57 Karr/No I think Connie had a day a problem with the 281h. Champion/The 281h I have market. Lehman/Well the 22nd. Karr/No, 22nd is fine. Lehman/The 22nd we could have the work session in the aftemoon. Karr/Yea that's fine. Kanner/What day of the week is that? Karr/Tuesday. Kanner/Tuesday. Lehman/The 22nd. Kanner/At what time? Lehman/Well I think at that time. Karr/We'll know after we get the schedule, after we get the agenda items closer together. Lehman/But probably no later than 4:00 and possibly earlier. Kanner/Okay after 1:30 is better for me. Lehman/Okay, okay. Champion/It will be after 1:30. Karr/It will be after 1:30. Kanner/So January. Lehman/22nd. Kanner/22nd, I'm just going in order here, January. Karr/January 4th, 9:30. Kanner/4th instead of the 3rd, January 7th is on. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 58 Karr/And 8th. Kanner/January 8th is on, what time, we didn't say atime on those. Lehman/Regular. Karr/Those are regular sections. Kanner/Regular sessions and then I have a problem with January 14th. Karr/Now those, the budget sessions that I suggested, I suggested Monday's and Tuesdays, we needn't stay with them, but I left the times wide open, is there a certain time of day that would work better for you Steven than others or is it the 14th? Kanner/14th is not good at all and I can meet then late on the 15th. Lehman/You mean evening. Kanner/Yea. Lehman/Well 15th why don't we just, 15th at 6;30. Vanderhoef/No, can't we. Pfab/What day of the week is that? Lehman/Tuesday. Vanderhoef/No, can't we go daytime? Karr/So forget the 14th, all right we're to the 15th. Kanner/Dee I would compromise at like 3:00 on the 15th would that be all right? Vanderhoef/That works. Karr/3:00 to. Champion/3 to what? Karr/Is it going to be 3 to 97 Lehman/Pardon. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Cotmcil Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 59 Karr/Is it going to be 3 to 97 Champion/No it's not going to be 3 to 9. Karr/Well we just need to get 4 sessions in here and I'm just trying to figure out. Champion/My brains will be (can't hear). Vanderhoef/3 to 7 or 7:30. Karr/And no dinner, 3 to 7. Pfab/I'd rather not go do it on Tuesday if you go through that but that's okay. Kanner/Well we're cutting out Tuesday the 14th. Lehman/Monday the 14th. Karr/We're cutting out Monday the 14th. Pfab/That's fine. Kanner/That was Martin Luther King Day. Lehman/No the 21st. Karr/No the next one is. Champion/What a minute what was your objection to the 14th was it just the morning? Kanner/No I can't meet at all on the 14th, 15th I can't meet early so we're going to go 15th from at 3:00. Lehman/15th at 3. Karr/3 to 7, okay, and then we've moved the 21st work session until the aftemoon of the 22nd. Lehman/Right. Karr/And the 281h isn't going to work. Champion/The 291h works. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 60 Karr/The 291h works, can we start that earlier. Champion/Like 8 in the morning. O'Donnell/It's not bad. Champion/8 to 12. O'Donnell/8 to 12. Lehman/291h, 8:00 in the morning. Kanner/Wait what day of the week is that? Lehman/It's a Tuesday, does that work? Vanderhoef/Oh 291h is a Tuesday. Kanner/Yea I could do one of those it's better if I don't but. Karr/Okay if I can just point out something and then I think probably Steve can address it more than I if you have any questions, but we go between 4 and 5 budget work sessions and you've got two and we're scheduled at the present time to set the public hearing on the 5th of February, we can't go later than that to have staff do figures for you so we're going to have to work backwards and figure out a couple more days in January to replace the ones you took off. Champion/Okay well we have the 291h from 8 to. Karr/To noon, and that should be the latest one I think that I think staff would like to go to get the figures ready for. Lehman/Well what's wrong with Thursday the 10th. Pfab/What time? Lehman/Well I didn't say a time, does that work? Kanner/After 1:30 for me. Pfab/That would be fine. Lehman/Well how about 3:00 on the 10th. Karr/3:00 the 10th. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 61 Lehman/Does that work. Vanderhoef/Or 1:00. Pfab/Until when. Vanderhoef/We be done by. Lehman/We can do 1:00. Kanner/1:30 I. Karr/1:30. Champion/How about 1:30. Karr/1:30 to 6:00 and again no dinner. Lehman/1:30 on the 10th. Champion/1:30 to 6:00, come on now are we really going to be able to work for 4 ½ hours? No, that's just not going to happen. Lehman/Well then we'll quit earlier than that. Karr/Okay can we get one more. Lehman/All right. Karr/What about the 271h or 241h. O'Donnell/As long as it's not 1:30 to 6:00. Karr/The 241h might be better only because you don't have, oh I guess you wouldn't make it, you have three meetings the week of the 7th, 7th, 8th and 10. Lehman/241h. Kanner/And we have the 9th and 23rd we have meetings too. Karr/I'm sorry. Kanner/JCCOG's is the 23rd. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 62 Karr/Oh I'm just talking about, yea, well I know there are more meetings. Vanderhoef/The 23rd is JCCOG. Lehman/Could we do the 241h at 1:307 Champion/What day of the week is that on? Lehman/Thursday. Vanderhoef/At what time? Lehman/1:30. Atkins/What was that again? 241h. Vanderhoef/Okay. Lehman/It's not ECCOG day is it? Vanderhoef No it's not but it's in the morning I have Cedar Rapids but I can be back by 1:30. Lehman/All right 1:30 on the 241h. Karr/241h 1:30 until 5:00. Champion/I mean I have to be that morning but I'll be back. Lehman/Yea. Karr/Okay so we could. Lehman/You know we also find that doing the budget we go through various segments and there are some of these sessions that we may have scheduled for four hours where you reach a point in the budget where it's time to stop even though we have an hour or so left so. Champion/Yea that's a good point, because I mean I just can't function for five hours. Karr/Okay I'll redo the schedule but this gives you then your organizational meeting at 9:30 AM on the 4th. A special work session 6:30 to 7:00, special formal 7:00 the 8th, you've got a budget work session 1:30 to 6:00 on the 10th. Lehman/Right. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 63 Karr/Budget work session on the 15th, your work session and special formal on the 22nd starting in the afternoon. 1:30 to 5:00 on the 241h budget and 8 to noon budget work session, and then one of those staff will probably work out Boards and Commissions and organizations coming in as well. Champion/We should look right over this budget because there' s not going to have a lot of money to spend this year. Karr/Okay. Lehman/That' s going to make it easier. Karr/I'll get a revised schedule out to you. Lehman/All right. Vanderhoef] Called cut, cut, cut. Council Time Lehman/Council time. Kanner/Yea number 4 in the info. packet we had a memo from Joe Fowler about the request from Old Capital Mall. Champion/Oh fight. Kanner/What about the idea of short term parking like we're considering for the Sheraton for some of that7 Arkins/We sort of lobbed that back in their lap Steven and asked them to come up with some other ideas on it, and as of at least today I hadn't heard about any others but I'll check for you though. Kanner/But one of the things they're concerned about is people getting there in the morning, parking there all day going to the University and if we have some short term parking that might take care of some of the problems. Lehman/Steven your right but the timing on this thing is absolutely impossible, going into a holiday season we're going to have just unbelievable numbers of people super unhappy, if we change the roles in September, October or August or whatever that's one thing but to show up the day after Thanksgiving with new rules which would take almost that long, in fact we might not be able to do it by This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001. November 12, 2001 Special Work Session Page 64 then. We would have ourselves a public relation problem that I don't think we can handle. Kanner/Yea I don't think we have. Lehman/Way to late. Kanner/I would agree with you that we don't have to change it now but maybe in the future to fine tune it. Lehman/And it may very well be the way to handle it instead of prohibiting parking on the first three levels as we once did and Joe could sure look at that because that would accomplish the same thing. Champion/Oh yea but I don't know how you could separate that ramp off like that. Atkins/Well it's not that easy and we've learned that all the merchants aren't on board on this thing either. Champion/No their not. Atkins/No. Champion/And their the ones that asked that it be rescinded anyway. Lehman Yes. Atkins/Yes. Lehman/And we discussed that when they did it. Champion/And we paid dearly for all those people who got tickets, they were all mad at us, I mean Fowler's right about that. Maybe if merchants and their employees didn't park down there. Lehman/Well it's. Pfab/I think Ross is. Adjourned 8:55. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 12, 2001.