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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-11-26 Transcription November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 1 November 26, 2001 Special Work Session 6:00 PM Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn, Pfab, Kanner Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, Dilkes, Franklin, Boothroy, Matthews TAPES: 01-104 BOTH SIDES; 01-105 Additions to A~enda Lehman/Mm'ian had power we didn't know about. Karr/You don't have a handout first because you've got to agree to add it first, I think, you might have one of them, 3e(5) is from Sarah and that's the resolution fixing a date for a public hearing for December 11, on the development agreement with Seabury & Smith so we'd like to add that to the consent calendar setting a date. Lehman/Okay. Karr/There is a revised Item 11 and that's the second consideration of the voting boundaries, voting precinct boundaries, we were notified by the Secretary of Stat(s office on Wednesday of a revision, and if you remember that was, we did a letter of agreement with the County that we would have two precincts vote in the city, two precincts vote within the townships and that was in accordance with the state code. We did not know that we had to include those legal descriptions of the entire townships in our boundaries so we revised the ordinance to include the whole township even though a portion of it is contained within the precinct. Because it affects the map we are recommending that a public hearing be set and held again. Lehman/Okay. Karr/So we will be setting, instead of giving second consideration to revised ordinance we will be setting a public hearing. Lehman/Which is part of the consent calendar. Karr/No, that will be a revised Item 11 since that was the voting boundary second consideration just inserting that. Okay. Lehman/Okay. Vanderhoef/Enough that we'll have to start with first. Karr/Yes, unfortunately. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 2 Vanderhoef/Okay. Karr/Also we'll have a resolution and notification, you'll be holding a special formal meeting tomorrow evening at 6:30 for the purpose of Executive Session, as a result of that we're adding a resolution ratifying settlement, a pending litigation, that will beat ltem number25 added to the end ofyour agenda. Should you decide in Executive Session to ratify then you'll be able to vote that same evening. Okay. And then finally I believe there is someone here from Lirm Street Cafe, yes, would you like to step to the podium sir right over here please. And just the papers are in order if you can get to the podium, there you go, just identify yourself and the name of the establishment. Frank Bowman/My name is Frank Bowman, I'm from the Linn Street Cafe, and basically here just to be added to the City Council meeting, for tomorrow, I'm applying for a Class. Karr/B. Bowman/B wine pennit, I'll send (can't hear) wine, mainly for the reason of starting to increase the number of wine tasting dinners which are held approximately once a month. A lot of customers like to take a bottle, you know bottle (can't hear), and you know it's just a way for me to increase my business. (Can't hear). Lehman/Okay. Thank you. Karr/And so if it meets with Council approval we'll go ahead with the posting of the four items. O'Dormell/Fine. Wilbum/Sure. Vanderhoef/It's all right with me. Karmer/I had a question, could you briefly summarize or someone summarize the amendment to the Seabury? Lehman/We'll talk about that tomorrow night. Kanner/Well I just want to know before approving or giving it. Dilkes/You've got a memo that probably summarizes it as best that I can. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 3 Kanner/Right I'm pointing that I don't have time to read it in 10 seconds, if someone could summarize it real quickly what' s on there. Dilkes/Yea, I'll take out the memo and. Kanner/Do it right now, I want to know what it's about. Lehman/Well, all right are there? Dilkes/Yes we know. Kanner/Could someone that knows about it summarize it, it's not that hard of thing to do, we got something handed to us 30 seconds ago and we're being asked to put it on the agenda and before we do that I'd like to know. Dilkes/And I'm happy to do that for you Steven if you'd let me find the memo first. Kanner/Or Karin says she' s familiar with it. Dilkes/Karin if you'd like to do it. O'Donnell/Karin I would love to hear what you have to say. Karin Franklin/Would you. There are two provisions that are changing in the agreement, one of them relates to the insurance, basically Seabury and Smith does not want to have to commit to rebuilding the building that is this whole project. If it is destroyed by an act of terrorism or a war in which it would be uninsurable so they want to have to rebuild. The other provision deals with a time period of six months to allow them to get a lease, they don't want to be committed to building the building if the lease is not finalized, and so it's just a couple of clauses in the agreement that provides them an out. The one in case of terrorism, one in the case if they don't get their lease. O' Donnell/Fine. Vanderhoef/They're building a building. Franklin/In Noahgate Corporate Park. Vanderhoef/And someone' s building a building and their leasing from. Lehman/Right. Franklin/Yes, Southgate Development. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 4 Lehman/Okay. Okay Marian. Karr/Okay. Joint Meetin~ with Plannin~ & Zoning, Commission Lehman/Okay we have a meeting tonight with the Planning & Zoning Commission relative to the property on Scott Boulevard, specifically referred to as the Fareway project. Before we start for Marian's purposes to make sure that the microphones are all working if everyone would introduce themselves and she can get a read on the voice level, starting with you Connie. Champion/Connie Champion, City Council. O' Donnell/Mike O' Donnell. Kanner/Steven Kanner. Jerry Hansen/Jerry Hansen. Dean Shannon/Dean Shannon. Beth Koppes/Beth Koppes Pfab/Irvin Pfab. Benjamin Chait/Benjamin Chait Don Anciaux/Don Anciaux. Lehman/You two are going to have to sit closer to the table, in fact one of you might want to come over here. Champion/There' s a seat here too. Lehman/Here's a seat over here too. Wilburn/Ross Wilburn. Vanderhoef/Dee Vanderhoef. Ann Bovbj erg/Ann Bovbjerg. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 5 Lehman/And I'm Ernie Lehman. Okay before we start I would like Karin, if you would like to tell us where we are and how we got there and then we'll kind of discuss it from there. Franklin/Say what do you want? Lehman/Where we are, I think we know, but if you could explain to us, obviously this is something that has been recommended denial by staff and P & Z, and I suspect that if you could just refresh our memories in one minute or less. (podium mic problems with Franklin presentation) Franklin/(can't hear) request from (can't hear) from CI-1 to (can't hear) denial from Council (can't hear). Lehman/One. Franklin/And then because Council appeared to be (can't hear) approval of this (can't hear) the Conunission (can't hear). The primary question is whether (can't hear) Industrial Park having (can't hear) Industrial (can't hear) for Industrial (can't hear). I thought it (can't hear) to point out (can't hear). Think of it in terms of two different types of(can't hear). Commercial (can't hear), a lot of truck traffic, there' s (can't hear) small manufacturing, that's what the (can't hear) is about, it is one (can't hear) truck traffic or auto traffic. (Can't hear) are allowed (can't hear) the domino are going (can't hear) warehousing, (can't hear) bumper cars and (can't hear). This is just a listing (can't hear) of all (can't hear). The CI-1 zone was created in 1983 and it was to create a (can't hear)just to basically (can't hear) at that time (can't hear). A little history in that our zoning ordinance used to be called the city (can't hear) ordinance, that is in an N1 zone (can't hear) you could have any, all the way down to (can't hear). When we changed it to a zoning ordinance (can't hear) residential commercial industrial (can't hear) there was a change in zone (can't hear) so in the industrial zone (can't hear) could not have all of(can't hear) and have this (can't hear). The commercial (can't hear) was put together (can't hear). That is why there's a bit of stew in that (can't hear) turns up (can't hear) at a time comes not want to (can't hear) and so (can't hear) is why some of them (can't hear). The community particle is kind of(can't hear) the predominant (can't hear). They are (can't hear) that require (can't hear) that (can't hear) automobile traffic, quite a bit of automobile traffic (can't hear) do well, they are not as fortunate (can't hear) to have (can't hear) like noise, dust, truck traffic, both kinds of things (can't hear). There' s meaning for both of these types of these (can't hear) is which type is appropriate for (can't hear) industrial (can't hear). Lehman/You don't have a map of this do you? Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 6 Franklin/(can't hear) this CI-1 is basically, this part of Scott Six Industrial Park and these lots that are around here (can't hear) this large (can't hear) of the (can't hear) four is the drainage area (can't hear) so it's (can't hear). Champion/Karin just remind me, where is that little (can't hear) convenience store? In front. Franklin/(Can't hear). Champion/Okay. Lehman/So from that road adjacent to the CI-1 following the drainage ditch up to the railroad tracks is either CI-1 or drainage and then everything to the east of that is Industrial. Okay. Pfab/What are the two to the left of(can't hear)? Franklin/Right here, these are zoned commercial (can't hear) isn't that a contractor, is that over here? (can't hear). Right here (can't hear) contracted (can't hear). Okay. (can't hear). woman/(can't hear) Franklin/Here. woman/No to the right. man/To the right. woman/There. Lehman/And from that cul de sac south this is all not buildable, right in here? Franklin/That' s right. Lehman/Okay. Franklin/Yea all of this, which is (can't hear). Lehman/Okay. Pfab/And the access (can't hear). Franklin/From Liberty Drive and Commerce you go (can't hear) highway. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 7 Pfab/In other words none of it is signaled. Franklin/No none, (can't hear) Scott Six (can't hear). man/Of course the other one (can't hear). Franklin/4201h (can't hear). Lehman/Okay Ann, if you'd like to tell us where you go where you got. Ann Bovbjerg/Well we were looking at land use and we looked and the reason for our voting against this change was that we thought it was too intensively retail, small bodies and small cars and constant kinds of traffic, and we felt that that was unsafe next to an industrial area. We also thought that that kind ofrezoning would compromise the integrity of the industrial area so that it would, it would be harder for the industrial people to be able to count on clear roads and not having to worry about other kinds of traffic. We also felt that there were other zoned, correctly zoned lens in the eastern part of the city to accommodate the uses that were being proposed here. We discussed the benefits that a grocery store would be on the east side of town and the very high regard that the proposed store has in the minds of people, that was acknowledge and was not and it could not be part of our consideration, we were looking at safety, we were looking at traffic and we were looking at the integrity of the industrial park. Lehman/We're here to talk about it, whoever' s got a comment. Pfab/The other alternative (can't hear). Karr/Irvin. Lehman/Irvin you're going to have to talk in the mic. Pfab/The other alternatives that you suggested as alternatives, could you go over those very briefly? Bovbjerg/Well there's the CN-1 that's shown there, there are areas around current Sycamore Mall. There is a newly allowed area by Scott and Rochester, there's an area on is it Court and Scott, south of that, any of those yellow places are, would be suitable for this kind of zoning and this kind of use. The one on Highway 6 is close to already built up housing areas noah on Scott Boulevard are closer to actual housing and they would not be compromising anything like an industrial park. Pfab/My thoughts are that the people in that area have a right, or it's, it should be easy for them to get their grocery shopping, no matter who's there. And it looks like This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 8 the closest one would be at Bon Aire and you've got the same problem across the street and a highway on top of it. If you gi~ up, one up the street, what is that around? Vanderhoef/Sycamore Mall. Bovbjerg/Sycamore Mall, the big one. Pfab/Well these people tried their darndest to get together with Sycamore Mall and they couldn't, so that pretty much puts that out. So then if you go up, and what is the one up in the? Yea that one. O'Donnell/Is that Scott and Rochester up there that your pointing to? Lehman/No Rochester is up here. Pfab/No, no. Kanner/That's Sycamore Mall right. Bovbjerg/No that is HyVee (can't hear) that's not available. You go up Scott, you go up Scott on the bulge and if you go up to the very top. Pfab/Well to me there's a very high density of people living there and it just doesn't, some way has to be found for to make it easy for them to get to and from get their groceries, I do believe and that's the problem that Fm fighting. I'm not saying that zoning is such, but I think we have to look at the needs of the people, I'm not saying that zoning people are right or wrong but maybe the whole concept is wrong then. Vanderhoef/Well I guess I'll talk a little bit, number one, is there anyone around this table that would have looked at our zoning map and said we need to change the intensive commercial at Scott and Highway 67 If there hadn't been a name and a face come in and say we want you to change it, would anybody would have looked at our zoning map and seen the number of places that we have within the city to put various kinds of commercial activities, would you have looked at this map and said we need to change the zoning here? O'Donnell/It would be very difficult to do Dee without a reason. Vanderhoef/Okay that, that being said, then knowing the spaces that we have I guess Emie and I are the only two that are left on the Council at this point in time that were on a Council for several years that we didn't have any industrial land available to market. When somebody came and said they'd like to come to Iowa City and help us build our tax base and put in a new industry, we didn't have This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 9 anything to show them. We even went so far as to talk about should the city build an industrial park. That was not high on our list, we wanted it in the private sector if possible, we worked very hard with the developer and we gave up a lot of concessions to make the industrial park happen and it was very, definitely we wanted the whole thing industrial, we made some concessions in allowing some intensive commercial because in my mind, at that time the drainage way cut off that land closest to Scott Boulevard and it wasn't easy to incorporate it with the rest of the industrial land. So part of that concession was to, in my mind, was to allow smaller but yet intensive kinds of activities to happen along Scott Boulevard which was a major arterial leading right into two arterials at either end so this is where I wanted my truck traffic and I wanted my heavy industrial and I wanted to preserve my area closest to the railroad track. Having said all of that I want it very clear that I will entertain in other locations and yes we do need a grocery store, and I'm very sorry that this came up as a name and a place that then changed the zoning. It isn't appropriate at that area, we do not need another commercial strip area, certainly to rezone more than what is asked for by a grocery store is going to lead to that strip mall in my mind, we know what has happened in very recent time at Court and First Avenue and that was just starting as I came on Council and we were talking about what we needed for traffic control there, not even realizing that we were going to have a Walgreen's come in and move in there and all these other upgrades, we have a very large commercial area that has come along there, this grocery store in my mind will be the stepping off place and we're going to end up with another bunch of stores in that area that are not anywhere near commercial intensive and I fear that we will not be able to market the industrial things which is the highest priority for this Council to increase our tax base and promote economic development and you get the first 6 some acres in there and strip mall, and grocery stores and drug stores and local conveniences that belong either in neighborhood commercial or belong in community commercial, this is not the location. I will look at it in other areas out there, but this is one is going to kill the industrial park in my mind. Lehman/Other comments. Chait/I think your question is a really good question and there' s a similar question that I would ask and that is if it were determined that we needed more CC-2 without this specific request for this specific location being requested would we put it here? And that's just another way to look at the kinds of things your talking about. Vanderhoef/Agreed. Champion/I don't think we would put it there, but we are (can't hear) a very specific question and a specific request and I think it does alter how we think about it. Dee I agree with you we probably would not put it there but we are dealing with a specific request and that's exactly what we did in the past. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 10 Wilburn/I'd like to ask a question of Karin, I'm sorry to make you get up again but I need a little bit more information. If you could walk me through, I'm looking at some of the, one of the concerns as related to the traffic or volume of traffic in the mix, I'm looking at some of the permitted uses by right and then the provisional uses, the clubs, meeting halls, religious institutions, restaurants, and the provisional of child care and the special exceptions of schools of specialized instruction. Given that we are given a real world example, the Fareway, I'm curious as to since they are, they're not a 24 hour grocery store, as in some of the other examples we have here in town, but I'm wondering is, would the hours of a grocery store, a limited set of hours would that be a similar to some of the exception or provisional uses or maybe you could just walk me through what is a provisional, what defines a provisional use. Franklin/Sure, yea, you know if you focus on the traffic issue, obviously with the grocery store, or with the restaurant or with some of those other uses that you find as permissible in CI-1, there are some things that you would not want to have locate in an area where it was going to be a lot of industrial truck traffic. That the issues are the same for those issues that are permitted in, or some of the issues that are permitted in CI-1. I think the key is the tatleist that locating a grocery store in this location would be to the change in the character of this area from one that was intended to be primarily industrial to one that tips over toward more of the retail type of usage and some of those uses in the CI-1 zone that are permitted or are provisional but are ones that you would not usually see dominate the zone such that it would get to the point where it would become much more of a community commercial type of area than it would be an intensive commercial, I think that's kind of what Dee was saying too. If you look at just individual kinds of uses like the grocery store versus the restaurant in the CI-1 there seems to be absolutely no logic in why we don't have a grocery store in CI-1, well then why don't we have department stores in CI-I because they're not all that different, they would not be open 24 hours a day, they would have traffic similar to a grocery store so then we could put those in CI-1 and so it, you start to change the character of that zone so much that there's little distinction between the CI-1 and the CC-2, little distinction between that intensive commercial where you've got the warehouses truck traffic and the community commercial where it's more the retail store shops, your going to have more auto traffic. Wilburn/Okay, that helps and I guess I, you know, I don't have the history that you two do but walking into this I'm given a list of some permitted uses and some provisional uses as you say on their own don't do it and so in my mind as you talk about the traffic that's not as, not to belittle some of the concerns but that' s not as big an issue for me, my primary concern is ~vhat happens with the rest of the zone and that' s kind of what your getting that so but otherwise I think you did your job in pointing out this and I think staff did their job, we have a little different. Franklin/It is a policy question. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 11 Wilburn/Yea. Franklin/As to the direction that this area is going to take and it's just a matter of considering the consequences of the decision that you make and whether you are in fact making a policy shift by that decision, and if you think that's what should happen fine, but just so that everybody understands the dynamics of what has happened here and what the consequences may be. Wilburn/And for me the biggest problem is what happens with the rest of the zone and how that might affect some other efforts Sycamore Mall, etc. that type of thing, that's just so you know where my concem is at this point. I'm done. Lehman/Steven. Karmer/I have a question for Karin or perhaps anyone else, Planning & Zoning or anyone else that can answer this. Our Comprehensive Plan talks about encouraging patterns of compact growth and development that emphasizes pedestrian access and neighborhood cohesiveness. And so I assme when we talk about CC-1 or CN-1 that' s part of this and we want to encourage that kind of thing. Franklin/CN-1 is primarily what would focus on that point. Kanner/CN-1 and grocery stores would be part of that. Franklin/Absolutely. Kanner/And but can this happen in this area of CI-1 if we rezone that, can we get compact growth and development and pedestrian access and neighborhood cohesiveness? Do you foresee that possibility happening? Can anyone else? Vanderhoef/It's all going to come through the industrial either the BDI or they're going to have to be crossing Highway 6 to get their if your talking about totally walking or having any kind ofconnectiveness with the areas. They're all going to have to walk down arterials or cross arterials or both. Hansen/I think that was part of my concern when I voted against this too is that the area around there is not conducive to housing, you've got an industrial park sitting right there and rezoning this piece of property takes approximately half of that zoning out ofthe park. And you know who's neighborhood are you going to put the next on in (can't hear)? Plus coupled the fact that they're asking for almost twice the amount of ground to be rezoned that they're actually (can't hear). Lehman/Well I think that we should probably, well from my own perspective, I do not favor rezoning 6.4 acres for a 3 acre project and ifthat's the way it ends up I This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 12 would not vote to rezone that. If, my, I guess the thing that appears, there is going to be commercial development from the railroad tracks to Highway 6, now there is a section in there that is drainage that there will be no development on. But the CI-1 zone where which is the portion right here that we're talking about rezoning, those two lots right there and all of this is zoned CI-1 and in this area anything that is listed as permitted uses, provisional uses, or special exceptions under the CI-1 will occur in that area or can occur in that area and your right Dee I was involved when we did this, I'm not at all sure that it was appropriate to have zoned it CI-1 zone in the first place, but I guess I'm having some difficulty in seeing how the uses that are permitted there are all that much different than a grocery store would be as it affects the rest of that industrial property. I mean the effect to me appears to be pretty much the same, it is a commercial use, now I don't know and it's some of which generates similar amounts of traffic, I'm not sure that traffic issue is, obviously it's not the only issue, but I don't know that this is significantly different from the other uses that are permitted in the CI-1 zone. Vanderhoef/Well I guess maybe what is showing up, I appreciate Ross's comments and I kno~v other people around here don't have the same history that you and I have and we've been waiting and we are in the process of moving forward with looking at all of the zoning within our whole code and this review has not happened and in my mind I think we should just wait to do any rezonings at all until we have gone through our code review and brought forward and at that point in time we can have the full discussion about all of these zones, we may change them, we may decide that grocery stores do belong there, or don't belong there but to talk about this as a single issue with a name and a face on it isn't being fair to the rest of the Councilor' s who haven't had these discussions before and we do have some new folks and how old is this? 83 since we looked at the. Woman/The zoning ordinance, yea. Vanderhoef/And so things change over time and we've recognized that and we said that we're going to approach this is in a whole, whole comprehensive way rather than nit picking on little pieces within the zoning and I think it's appropriate after 20 years or nearly 20 years to do that and Fm not inclined to do any kind of rezoning until we have completed that. O'Donnell/You know short time back we had a disagreements on the comer of First and Rochester, Mercy Hospital, I think the majority of us felt that that was a good place to have Mercy go, but we changed that and by not being in favor ofrezoning 6 acres would you be in favor ofrezoning the amount required to do this (can't hear) because I too see very little difference between a grocery store and a restaurant and 24 hour restaurant (can't hear) coming and going traffic 24 hours a day. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 13 Vanderhoef/I'm not sure that restaurants belong in this zone anymore. O'Donnell/But they're here. Vanderhoef/At this point, but that' s why I'm saying why don't we just take a little time and have the discussion with everybody on all of the zoning until we can decide what is appropriate in the zones now in the 21 st century. Champion/But we've done rezoning in the past for Council meetings, here you object to doing those and it seems to me that' s the same objection. Vanderhoef/I did object to the Mercy one because here again. Champion/No the past couple months, we did some rezoning that we voted. Vanderhoef/But the zoning we've done were overlays. Champion/But, no they're not, we just changed something to, the property on Benton Street to, I don't know the numbers but. man/RM-20 to RS-8. O'Donnell/Down zoned. Franklin/The down zone to RS-8. Champion/We have another down zone we're working on on Benton Street I mean so you didn't object to doing those when we don't have the zoning plan all done, and so I. Vanderhoef/I do object to doing them. (can't hear). Pfab/I didn't remember, that was my point, I didn't remember, and I was under the impression who not only favored when Mercy went up there at First Avenue because it was a different thing than possibly when the zoning was done, let me finish here just a second. When this zoning was done we what was, if you took a string and drew around a quarter of a mile of this location what were the number of family units that were there at the time that this was going and has the need for this type of commercial (can't hear) units or availability of plan that service those families and you know there's a tremendous growth of high density residential there. Now it's not the same as big acreage's, there's a lot of people in that area. Vanderhoef/But not within the quarter mile. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 14 Pfab/Well I'm not so sure. Vanderhoef/We've got the County. Pfab/And so you look at, and these people have needs, and would you rather have them drive across town or up to First Avenue or you know there is no, it doesn't appear there' s going to be a grocery store in Sycamore Mall where you can either go down towards Aldi's, you can go towards the one there but is there any reason why those people shouldn't have the access of those services in that area? And that's my question. And it looks to me when you look at the drawing on the map by cutting off that part you really don't disturb much in that industrial park, this is not ruled all the numbers but we also have a housing unit in there I believe of some sort and there's some other little personal potential (can't hear) whether that' s going to develop into a neighborhood commercial I don't know but the industrial seems to be out behind us there. Bovbjerg/Irvin since 1996 when this was first brought in there hasn't been a depreciable development within at least a quarter of a mile. The rezoning to allow the Mercy Hospital building is in of itself and I'm not sure that needs to set a precedent and I think if a person is for or against a rezoning for anyone place doesn't mean you have to be for or against any other place each of these has to stand by itself so I think that one is not obligated either on our commission or on the Council to be for this if you were for Mercy or against, or you were against Mercy I think they're entirely themselves. To the point of, this is a known use and a known name on the use, I think that something that has concerned Planning & Zoning at least publicly this is what we've heard Council members addressing and we haven't heard Council members addressing the things we were looking at. And we think and I will state our concerns I think are basic to anything that is going to happen on this property whether or not it is a known name or a known use and as I've said, we are very much in favor with this particular use and this particular name, but when your looking at land use and when your looking at the intensive area and tracks versus cars and less frequent tracks and more frequent cars this is a real difference in the dynamics of that whole comer are going to play out and changing that can change this comer. Changing an ordinance so that grocery can be in CI-1 then changes not only this comer but every CI-1 area in town as well as every CI-1 area that might come into town and that is one of these things you have to think of with the question and then what happens? What happens tomorrow? What happens next to me? What happens to another area? And those are the kinds of questions I think that are very very basic and it's easy to forget those when your looking at the positives of the particular applicant but this is the way Planning & Zoning urges the City to look and this is why we send to you the kinds of recommendations that we do. If this land had not been available with the idea of rezoning there are other places with this use and this particular name could go that would be flocked to by people all over town especially the east side and I've This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 15 gotten calls from people in the county so people will go where they want to go for a good product and we feel there are places where this product can go and will be absolutely accessible because people are going to want to go there. They now drive from the northeast county over to the current Fareway store which doesn't have a light, has a lot of traffic, and for them it's worth going to. And we think that there are other places where this can go. Pfab/My question is where are those places? You know that will work. Bovbjerg/They're on the map. Pfab/I looked at it. Lehman/Well let's, we're not getting anywhere, I don't know if we're going anywhere. But first, Karin, would you, the CI-1 zone appears a couple other places in town. Franklin/It's primarily in the Gilbert Highland area, Gilbert, South Gilbert Street, South of Highway 6, Stevens Drive, Keokuk, not along Highway 6 but south of the highway, the same way off of Highway 1, it's south of the highway except for Menards which is CI-1 right on the highway. Champion/If we said to you we want the grocery store there but don't want a strip mall there. Franklin/To me? Champion/Yea, well to Planning & Zoning or to you or the Fareway or whatever. We want the grocery store there but we understand your concerns of a strip mall with more retail which would definitely change the character of the whole area. How could we do that? Franklin/Not to be difficult but I don't think that you could because if you put the grocery store as a provisional use in the CI-1 as we noted there are a number of uses in the CI-1 that are kind of peculiar right now and are more on the retail end of things. When you have retail uses as you know as a retailer there' s a certain synergy between those uses that one feeds off of the other and builds off of the other and the traffic for one encourages the traffic for another. And that's the sort of dynamic we believe is going to happen here if the grocery store locates in this location which is why I said the basic question is do you want this area to be this retail kind of use or not and that' s kind of what it comes down to. And if you do and that' s not an issue then zone it. (END OF 104, SIDE ONE) This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 16 Franklin/A grocery store, sorry Ernie, but I don't think putting a grocery store as a provisional use (can't hear) solves that particular problem in the long run, that's my opinion. Lehman/Well why would you be sorry, that' s all right? Franklin/Because I know you want things to work. Lehman/Well yea obviously I'd like things to work whenever they can work. But if, well let me ask you this, from your perspective if a store were to locate there would you rather see it in a CC-2 zone or as provisional use in a CI-1 zone? That wasn't a yes or no was it? (can't hear). Vanderhoef/I think all that will happen is if we do it as a provisional then another name and another face will come in and say well you gave provisional over here to the grocery store and I always build next to grocery stores therefore give me the exception also it will build out and so tinless we make that decision as Karin says, do you want retail commercial at that comer or do you want it where it's already been planned in our east side development? O'Donnell/I want a grocery store in that area and I don't necessarily think that we have to say yes to everybody who comes around, each one will have to be on it's own (can't hear). Bovbjerg/If it is put into the ordinance as a provisional zone then any of these CI zones could take grocery store. Lehman/And none of those would be a problem, we've already looked at that. Well probably at any point because we have very few of those. Vanderhoef/But we're doing new districts right along and within the districts then it's, do we put neighborhood commercial, do we put CC-1, do we put CI-I? You know this is in this whole big pot of zoning kinds of things that we need to look at whether our zoning laws are correct for this time period. Shannon/I just wanted to add something, we voted 6-1 on the Commission and I am the one, and I feel more strongly than I ever did, I spend a lot of time in that area in the course of my business every day and one I don't believe that the Comprehensive Plan is a Bible, I maybe at one time thought it was but now I think we sometimes sit on that Comprehensive Plan and I don't like long citizen and I've watched the Council' s sit there for 20 odd years and now our mall which a lot of people wanted is now called Coral Ridge because they found something wrong with this, they found something wrong with that and I think the Council' s didn't, This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 17 were protecting our downtown so they found all these obstacles and now that's, the people wanted the mall, I don't like mall's but the people wanted, so now it's not here anymore and so you see what's going with that mall, the suction sound is going that way but I don't know I've gone out and looked at this and the reason I liked this is gone now but it was on the comer and we debated the traffic, well I want that in the middle of that industrial zone but it's on the comer and people said the traffic would be a real problem but you know on Scott Boulevard there's already truck traffic mixing with cars and they're doing very nicely. Maybe it's getting a little too busy but the people wouldn't go very far before they got on that street and so that's why I thought it would not be fall in my mind that we could mix the two different kinds of traffic because they were very quickly get back out on Highway 6 or they'd be on Scott Boulevard. On a daily basis, I just got my chest poked today by a former police chief of Iowa City, and he said why aren't you doing the grocery store out there, and I hear this all the time, and maybe people don't know what' s best for the city but I only know 6 people that are really against this thing and that was my fellow commissioners, and I haven't really talked to anybody else, I know you can't govern the city by what people want but normally we sit in here and the place will get packed with the neighborhood association and they're all against something, well this is the first time I've been on the commission that everybody wants something, I mean they want something in the positive and that' s not the only reason that I'm, I was in favor of the store before any of the people really wanted it. But it looks to me like, I don't know I'm not an expert but it looks like a logical place because you've got Highway 6 and Scott Boulevard going to the north and that's what people tell me, they said would like to come from the north and I think it's going to be a walking grocery store, I think it's going to be a driven to grocery store. And I don't know if this is going to wreck everything but I do remember the vote we took for that Mercy building up there, I voted against it, well the world didn't end, we built the Mercy and now I've switched doctors and I go there now so I think it ended up very nicely. Lehman/That's why it comes up. Pfab/Is the zoning ordinance there to serve the people or are the people there to serve the zoning ordinance and I think that' s the question. Lehman/Well folks, what do we want to do? My personal feeling and I can't help it, but I believe that that is going to be a, this is a commercial zone, and it's going to be commercial, whether or not it's a grocery store or a fast food restaurant or any of these uses, that is going to be a commercial area. I guess the question, really, first of all I do not favor rezoning 6.4 acres for a 3 acre grocery store, in fact I don't favor rezoning anything out there because I don't think, I think the grocery store can be a permitted use without rezoning and I don't think I would rezone it but I guess, I don't see where it harms the industrial zone, and to me that is going to be, it's going to be commercial all the way along that street anyway you want to cut it. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 18 But the question is, and we need to move along, are there? We need to, ifthere's sufficient interest on the part of Council to try to work something out to make the grocery store locate there we need to tell the staff and the Planning & Zoning Commission if not and we're willing to deny the rezoning then let' s do, we' 11 do whatever. Pfab/I would move that we proceed to. Lehman/Well we don't need a motion are there four people who are interested in trying to make the grocery store work out there? Vanderhoef/Are there four people even prior to that vote that would hold off on making any decision on this until after we have? Lehman/All right are there four people who want to delay this until we get through with the zoning code? Vanderhoef/Because I would. Lehman/We have two. All right are there four people who are interested in pursuing some method of having Fareway be able to locate in that area? Or a grocery store being able to locate in that area? Pfab/I think it's fine. Lehman/There are and we will proceed from there and I think that' s going to be a decision between the staff and the Planning & Zoning Commission whether that be a provisional use, a special exception use however, and obviously it's going to require discussions from Mr. Streb and that still doesn't mean when it comes to the Council that Council is going to approve it. (can't hear). Kanner/There's a vote on the rezoning. Champion/No, the vote, we want the grocery store. Lehman/The vote on the rezoning will probably be delayed pending the ability of the staff, Planning & Zoning and Streb to work out a, and not that we're going to get a positive reconunendation from the staff or from Planning & Zoning but there are a majority of Council has indicated, try to figure out a way to make that grocery store whether it be a provisional use, a special exception, or some other exotic thing that will come from the staff and the Planning & Zoning Cormmission. Kanner/So your. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 19 Atkins/Ernie. Kanner/Just to get it straight, you're going to ask to defer the motion tomorrow? Lehman/That will come from Mr. Streb. Kanner/What? It's on our agenda to rezone. Lehman/I realize that. Kanner/And so we would need a deferral (can't hear) tomorrow, okay I just wanted to (can't hear). Atkins/Ernie, I'll be candid, I'm a little uncomfortable about negotiating zoning with the perspective developer. Lehman/I don't. Atkins/It doesn't have anything to do with the Streb's, it's just, if you want a grocery store there then I, then perhaps just tell us. Lehman/We should be more specific Atkins/And we'll write the zoning ordinance accordingly. Lehman/Are we interested in making this a provisional or a special exception in the present zone? Pfab/I don't care how you do it but I think there's. Lehman/No but I think Steve's right, I don't think you negotiate zoning. O'Dormell/What does special exception seem to fit better? Lehman/I have no idea. Kanner/We should get a memo from staff on which of those two options I think would be the best thing. Pfab/Or some other option. Karmer/Or some other option if there is. Atkins/I'm real uncomfortable. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 20 Vanderhoef/So when your talking about a grocery store and there appears to be four votes for a grocery store then are you saying that you want all 6 acres or are you saying you only want the acreage needed for the grocery store to be put into the hopper either as a provisional or as a total rezoning? Pfab/I'm inclined to speak here to you answer. I'm inclined not to make it just an isolated little island in there, I think there's needs for commercial activities in there and I think the way it sits off by itself there I don't see any problem with the larger part, that' s my point, but I mean there' s a need for some commercial activity there and I'm a little uncomfortable with just a grocery store sitting there. Lehman/It's zoned commercial and any of the other uses listed here can locate there now. Pfab/Okay. Vanderhoef/Well my preference definitely would be then if it's going to be a grocery store to go the provisional and only for the acreage necessary for the Fareway, or for a grocery store. Lehman/Well if we went provisional it would apply to grocery store only so. Vanderhoef/That would be the way I would want it to go. Pfab/That' s fine. Lehman/All right. Bovbjerg/Emie. Lehman/Yes. Bovbjerg/The route that this would take then would be something that the Council could determine on it's own, would it have to go through the ordinance and go? Lehman/If there is a. l~ovbjerg/Come put in that way, come through Planning & Zoning after staff. Lehman/I traderstand, correct me if I'm wrong but if that were, if a grocery store were made a provisional use it would require that it go through Planning & Zoning, come to Council and have three readings so it would be a provisional or a special exception in that zone. So it would have to go through the same process as rezoning would. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 21 Atkins/If you change the ordinance language, it's going to require P & Z approval. Lehman/Right, right. Bovbjerg/If it went through Planning & Zoning and Planning & Zoning said that they did not think that was a good way to change that zone then what? Atkins/You're right back here again. Lehman/We're right back where we were with Mercy Hospital. Champion/Can we do a special exemption? Lehman/Special exception. But in either case it would require that it go through Planning & Zoning Commission, it does not require that they approve it for us to approve it, but it does require that they act on it and they can recommend approval or denial to us and we would then act as we saw fit. Bovbjerg/It's a different process for changing the zone than it is for changing the ordinance. Lehman/But they both have to go through Planning & Zoning. Bovbjerg/They would both have to go through, well the zone change has gone through, I mean it's with you now. Lehman/Right. Schintler/But if Mr. Streb doesn't want to defer then you guys have to (can't hear)? Lehman/If Mr. Streb does not want to defer my gut feeling is that it probably will go down in times, that's his call. Champion/And so the provisional use we would get a denial from Planning & Zoning probably because they've already. Anciaux/Not necessarily because the only reason I voted against this was because it's not a permitted use. Champion/Okay then the other question is then do we have to meet with you again if you do vote against it? (Can't hear). Atkins/Yes. Lehman/Probably. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 22 Atkins/It's your policy. Lehman/Well probably, although I do. Vanderhoef/Well there have been occasions that P & Z have said we don't need to meet. Lehman/Necessary, that would be their call. Champion/Okay, okay. Vanderhoef/We invite them and they have a choice. Bovbjerg/I think it would be very wise never to predict how we're going to vote. Lehman/Right, that's also wise from where we're sitting so. Kanner/I was hoping with that creek there there would be some marina equipment and supplies. Pfab/I thought maybe a bridge over it. Bovbjerg/Only with salt water though. Lehman/It's allowed. Anciaux/You know just to try and muddy the waters a little bit more, I don't know why the grocery store couldn't go in the little loop street up there unless it's already sold because that would be closer to the Modern Manor and what have you and it would allow foot traffic, you wouldn't have to have foot traffic going into that industrial complex then. Vanderhoef/And it wouldn't muddy the water. Anciaux/And it wouldn't muddy the water as much around there. Vanderhoef/The traffic down on (can't hear). Lehman/Well I think that's obviously an option to Mr. Streb, my understanding is that Fareway is not interested in locating in that spot, I don't know that. Anciaux/Yea you know and I don't know why either but it's. Shannon/Doesn't that put you right in the heart of the industrial area though? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 23 Anciaux/No because there' s a big ditch right behind it and there' s a buffer between (can't hear). Vanderhoef/There' s no connection between them. Bovbjerg/Yea that would be. Lehman/Right there is a ditch. Vanderhoef/The cross traffic problem. Lehman/And that' s pretty wide through there, there's kind of a natural barrier between the two which is probably why it's zoned differently. Anciaux/And you know living on the south side of Iowa City too I call Kmart quite a few times telling them to get their grocery carts off the railroad tracks and I can see problems with that too but that's Fareway's problem. Lehman/All right, okay. Champion/Thank you. Lehman/Thank you folks. Bovbjerg/Thank you very much Council. Lehman/We're going to take about 4 or 5 minutes. BREAK Planning & Zoning A. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE .63 ACRES FROM GENERAL INDUSTRIAL I-1, TO INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL, CI-1, LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF HIGHWAY I WEST, WETS OF RUPPERT ROAD. (RE01 - 00021 ) Franklin/Okay the first item is a public hearing on a rezoning of .63 acres from industrial to commercial intensive located on the south side of Highway 1 West near Ruppert Road. This is in between Auto House, Carousel Motors, and Wal-Mart, it's a small triangle of land, there's conditional zoning agreement that is part of this which basically addresses set backs and screening and the aesthetics along Highway 1, it is a conditional zoning agreement very similar to the one we did for Wal-Mart and Menard's. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 24 Kanner/This was the property where they were going to use an auto dealership. Lehman/No. Franklin/No, that's this I-1 property down here, no this is a very small piece Steven, it's, it may not even be buildable for anything, just on that piece. Kanner/So we're putting in then the same provisions that we were asking. Franklin/Yes, just in case. Kanner/Are we still working on that other piece then the other side that other one that? Champion/Oh by, between Menards and the. Kanner/They withdrew the (can't hear). Franklin/You know I can't remember where that is, it went back and forth so many times. Arkins/I think it's back in the Ruppert's hand, the deals off the table (can't hear). Franklin/Okay, oh yea, I know the deal' s off the table. Lehman/We did rezone that. Franklin/I thought we did. Lehman/It's done, it's rezoned. Franklin/Yea it went it CI-1 and we did that, we redid the conditional zoning agreement, you're right Ernie. Lehman/It's done. Pfab/There was one question in that agreement and it talked about storage of auto related items and I would like some clarification on that. Franklin/Okay, in those. Pfab/It appears that you can store about anything out there if it's auto related or something like that and I couldn't quite understand what that all meant. Franklin/What that recognizes is that in this corridor we do have auto dealerships and that we are not restricting the auto dealerships from displaying their cars. Now This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 25 you have to be set back 30 feet from the Highway 1 right of way before that can occar. Pfab/Now your talking the highway fight of way. Franklin/Exactly. Pfab/Okay. Vanderhoef/And we have a request from Auto House to do this? Franklin/Yes. Lehman/Right, okay. Franklin/Okay the next item is a public hearing on an ordinance to vacate West Benton Court north of Benton Street. Lehman/If you're going to talk about it I have to go. (Mayor left room) Franklin/Yea Mike you're in charge. Pfab/Okay can you back up just one? Okay the part that I was referring to in this other one it says no outdoor storage of merchandise or material except for that associated with auto vehicle sales. Franklin/And landscaping. Pfab/And, is that, does that mean it's behind the land, is it screened from the highway or is it? Franklin/No, no. Pfab/Let's say auto sales, let' s suppose I have a vehicle oh I want to take apart and set it there, this is what jumped out at me not that it's right, or that I was interpreting it right, it's quite vague, it says no outdoor storage of merchandise or material except for that associated auto vehicle sales and then some other things which are, (can't hear) applicable. Franklin/As we would interpret that I believe if somebody just took a car and took it apart and Mr. Boothroy's in the office, or in the office, in the audience, and I'm looking right at him, I think the way we would interpret this is that if somebody took a car apart and just laid it out there that would not be associated with auto vehicle sales, maybe repair but not sales. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 26 Pfab/Okay suppose I wanted to park a car transport there, a semi, an empty semi that I wasn't going to use for a week or two. Franklin/No, Doug says no. What you can do, is you can put cars there that are for sale. Pfab/Okay. Is there anyway, okay like the auto transport, let's say it's a slow time and we've got some extra transport. Champion/They said no. Pfab/Pardon. Champion/They said no. Franklin/No we would. Pfab/According to this I would say yes it's permissible if you did it. Franklin/Well then you could appeal our interpretation to the Board of Adjustments. Pfab/Okay. Franklin/No, I mean we would interpret it. Pfab/I'm told to go to heck a lot nicer than that. Franklin/I thought that was pretty nice, that's the way Doug says he would interpret it so, (can't hear). Pfab/Okay that' s fine, I was just. Kanner/Right it's on the record here. Franklin/Yep. Pfab/So are the other remarks. B. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDiNANCE TO VACATE WEST BENTON COURT NORTH OF BENTON STREET. (VAC01-00003) Franklin/Okay, Benton Court, north of Benton Street, this is being requested by Oaknoll, this has come up in the past and we've indicated to Oaknoll that vacation of this street would not be looked upon favorably until all of the properties on the west side of Benton Court were owned by Oaknoll, they are at this point and so the recommendation of the Planning & Zoning Commission is to approve this This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 27 vacation. Like all the vacations that we do it will be dependent upon conveyance being settled prior to the third reading of the vacation ordinance. Pfab/So in other words, what's in it for the other citizens of the city? It's still to be determined is that it? Franklin/I don't understand that question. Pfab/Is it City property? O'Donnell/No Oaknoll owns the whole west side, this is just right (can't hear). Franklin/The street right of way is city property, and they're asking us to vacate that and then we would vacate it and dispose of it to Oaknoll, they own of both sides of the street. Pfab/Right but what is the, what does the City give up and what does the City get? Kanner/We're getting cash. Pfab/How much? Franklin/Well the conveyance is what we, I'm sorry go ahead. Kanner/No, well, actually, I, we had asked this about another piece that we were vacating and I think it's a good idea to get the price beforehand so we can consider both things together, the vacation and the conveyance. Franklin/Well you never finish the vacation until the conveyance negotiations are completed, all your doing is your saying we will continue to consider this going through your second readings, and it is not vacated, you do not vacate it until the conveyance is complete. Okay so it's never finalized until that last reading. Pfab/And it's not finalized until whoever makes the decision the City got a fair (can't hear). Franklin/And you are the ones who make that decision. Karmer/I do have a little concern about the utilities, that we're going to be continuing to care for the utilities, I think they ought to buy them perhaps and take care of them now. Why wait? Franklin/I believe that was to be a temporary situation until development of Oaknoll proceeds to the west, your looking at the staff report aren't you Steven? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 28 Kanner/Well utilities, yes, it's page 92 of ours, page 2 of the staff report under Utilities about halfway down. They'll have the public utilities continue to be public until OaknolFs (can't hear) can be redesigned at which point. If it's private now why not have those go private and they be responsible for those distribution lines? Why should we continue to be responsible for them? Why not figure that into the cost of the sale? O'Donnell/Is that done Karin? Franklin/Pardon me. O'Dormell/Is that done, have we done that before? Franklin/Usually what happens is well, I don't know if there's a usually, if we have utilities in the right of way whether it's ours or the other public utilities we usually reserve easements for them, and it depends upon exactly what kind of a line it is as to whether we would want to keep it as a public line or make it a private line. I think what will happen is with redevelopmerit that whatever lines are in here will be changed as a consequence of that redevelopment they will be reconstructed. I don't know I mean you can do what you like, Public Works did not have a problem with keeping these as public utilities for the interim, I imagine they're fairly low maintenance. I mean were talking about sewer and water here. Pfab/But if the, it doesn't make a lot of sense for the city to have a potential liability if it's on private property and it's just for the benefit of the owner, I think, Steve' s idea is, this is, at the exchange I believe that that would be an appropriate way to do that, I don't know but. Franklin/Okay if the majority of the Council would like to have us go back to Oaknoll that would be part of our discussions. Champion/We have utility lines on lots of private property (can't hear). Pfab/Fine but is, it's 9n private property, it's just their utility. Champion/That's petty (can't hear). Pfab/Well no it isn't, well that's your opinion, sure, but let's suppose there's a line blows up over there? Champion/I guess we call (can't hear). Pfab/A gas line, no, no, no but I mean it's the city's responsibility on their property. Atkins/Not on gas line. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 29 Kanner/Water main, and sanitary sewer, yea those are the main things that I think the liability question is a valid consideration and also we have an obligation to get the most we can in regards to the whole city, I think that' s the role that we play for the public good. Pfab/And cut our losses. O'Donnell/Are there four people who would like to pursue that course of action? Pfab/I would. O'Donnell/No, okay, you can move on. Franklin/Okay, if there's no other questions about that one. C. REZONE 1.38 ACRES FROM HIGH DENSITY MULTI-FAMiLY RESIDENTIAL, RM-44, TO MEDIUM DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RM-20 FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1045-1075 W. BENTON STREET. (REZ01- 00020). Franklin/The next one is the rezoning of the Benton Villa project and this rezoning request has been redrawn, the applicant's and the developers have come to an agreement on the design of the project. Vanderhoef/And so we close public heating and. Franklin/Yea close the public hearing and then, what do you do with that? Karr/Accept Klink letter, accept correspondence, on the withdrawal. Franklin/Okay did you get that? O'Donnell/Is that C? Franklin/Yea that's C yea. D. REZONE APPROXIMATELY 6.15 ACRES FROM INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL, CI-1, TO COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL, CC-2, LOCATED AT COMMERCE DRIVE AND LiBERTY DRIVE. (REZ01-00015) Franklin/Item D then is the Scott Six Industrial Park which we've already discussed so presumably we'll close the public hearing on that and refer it back to the Planning & Zoning Commission for exotic solutions. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 30 O'Donnell/Well put. Lehman/This be deferred to December 10th. Karr/11 th. Lehman/Is that the date? Karr/1 lth is the next formal. Lehman/Okay. Franklin/Deferring what? Lehman/Item D. Karr/(can't hear). Franklin/Why would it be deferred until the 1 lth? We won't be done by the 1 lth. Lehman/How do we? Karr/You just, you just refer it back, you don't, you refer it back to P & Z and then you don't need a date specific. Lehman/Oh, okay but we will. Franklin/We'll have something from the Streb's. Lehman/Wait a minute, we can, we continue the public hearing, now what do we do with it? We have to either close it or continue it. Dilkes/I think we can close the public hearing and assuming we have a request for deferral from the applicant then you can defer it. Franklin/Indefinitely. Lehman/Okay, we close the public hearing and refer it back to P & Z. Pfab/So my question is have the two parties come to a solid agreement? Kanner/Is us one of the two parties? Pfab/No, no. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 31 Franklin/This is Scott Six we're talking about. Dilkes/Fareway. Pfab/I'm sorry. Franklin/Yea, yes on the previous one we had. E. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS-8) TO HISTORIC PRESERVATION OVERLAY (RS-8/OHP) FOR PROPERTIES WITHiN THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD TO ESTABLISH THE LONGFELLOW HISTORIC DISTRICT. (REZ01-00019) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) F. CONSIDER AN ORDiNANCE TO REZONE FROM MED1UM DENSITY SiNGLE FAMILY (RS-8) TO CONSERVATION DISTRICT OVERLY (RS-8/OCD) FOR PROPERTIES WITHiN THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD TO ESTABLISH THE CLARK STREET CONSERVATION DISTRICT. (REZ01- 00019) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) G. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SiNGLE FAMILY (RS-8) TO CONSERVATION DISTRICT OVERLY (RS-8/OCD) FOR PROPERTIES WITHiN THE LONGFELLOW NEIGHBORHOOD TO ESTABLISH THE DEARBORN STREET CONSERVATION DISTRICT. (REZ01-00019) (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Franklin/Okay Item E, F, and G are the Historic and Conservation Districts, first consideration. ITEM H. CONSIDER AN ORDiNANCE TO VACATE 11,800 SQUARE FEET OF UNDEVELOPED KIRKWOOD AVENUE RIGHT-OF-WAY LOCATED SOUTH OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST PARKING LOT AT 1320 KIRKWOOD AVENUE. (VAC01-00005) (FIRST CONSDERATION) Franklin/Item H is a portion of vacation of Kirkwood Avenue, first consideration. Wilburn/Dee had a concern about being able to sign on that one for the trail, is that the one (can't hear). Franklin/On H? Wilburn/Yea on H. It looked to me like there was adequate space out there for signage SO. Vanderhoef/Okay. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 32 Wilburn/Just FYI. Vanderhoef/Thanks. ITEM I. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 3.07 ACRES FROM MEDIUM DENSITY MULTIFAMiLY, RM-20, TO MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY, RS-8, LOCATED AT 747 W. BENTON STREET. (REZ01-00013) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/Item I is the rezoning from RM-20 to RS-8 for the Buss', that's second consideration. ITEM J. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 24.12 ACRES FROM INTERIM DEVELOPMENT SINGLE-FAMILY, ID-RS, TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMiLY, SAO-5, LOCATED EAST OF HICKORY TRAiL (REZ01-00012) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/J is second consideration on the Hickory Trail subdivision off of First Avenue. ITEM K. CONSIDER A REZONING ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE OPDH PLAN FOR VILLAGE GREEN PART XVIII TO PERMIT NINE ADDITIONAL RESIDENTIAL UNITS ON 4.33 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD AND SOUTH OF WELLINGTON DRIVE. (REZ01- 00018) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/K is second on the Village Green Part XVIII. ITEM L. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 14.07 ACRES OF PROPERTY FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RS-5, AND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY -LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, OPDH-5, TO OPDH-5 FOR APPROXIMATELY 14.07 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF ViLLAGE ROAD AND NORTH OF WINTERGREEN DRIVE. (REZ01-00014) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) Franklin/Item L is second consideration on Village Green to the south along Wintergreen Drive and that's it. Lehman/All fight. O'Donnell/A record. Lehman/Thank you. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 33 Aeenda Items Lehman/Okay Agenda items. Atkins/Ernie if there's any questions on the fees and/or the Affordable Dream Home Doug is here for you. Lehman/Okay. ITEM NO. 6. CONSIDER AN ORDNANCE AMENDING TITLE 5," BUSINESS AND LICENSE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 2, "VEHICLES FOR HIRE," OF THE CITY CODE CLARIFYING DEFINITION OF VEHICLES FOR HIRE, ADDING REQUIREMENTS FOR CERTIFIED STATE OF IOWA CRIMiNAL HISTORY INFORMATION PRIOR TO ISSUANCE OF ANY DRIVING BADGE, REMOVING THE REQUIREMENT FOR A DISTINCTiVE COLOR SCHEME FOR VEHICLES FOR HIRE, AND PROVIDiNG LANGUAGE REQUIRING A PERMIT FROM THE DiVISION OF ANIMAL CONTROL FOR OPERATiNG A HORSE DRAg VEHICLE. (FIRST CONSDERATION) Lehman/I have a, on Item Number 6, O'Donnell/I had the same question. Champion/Right. Lehman/I really don't quite understand why we get into such a long drawn out provision requiring the permits and certifications for the health of horses that pull their carriages through the busy streets downtown. To me, I believe that we have an ordinance that prevents cruelty to animals but the procedures required by t his ordinance if somebody wants to come downtown or anyplace in the city pull a carriage from a chumh to something for a wedding it just seems ludicrous, I would love to see us remove any references to the criteria that are required for horse drawn vehicles. Champion/If we have a horse drawn vehicle downtown I mean they have to follow like the rules of that special glow vehicle thing on the back, I mean they have to follow all that anyway right? Lehman/This is regarding the health of the horse. Champion/I know but they have to follow all that anyway, all those rules about. Lehman/Yea. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 34 Champion/Right, so I agree, it's impossible to have a horse drawn carriage downtown because nobody's going to fill out 5 hours of papers and go to (can't hear). Lehman/All right, anyway I'll bring that up tomorrow night. Karr/Could I just clarify, the only addition to the horse drawn vehicle is Cl(b) and that is simply referencing it to another section of the code that hadn't been referenced before, all of the other provisions are the same provisions that have been in affect for some time. Is there a majority of Council who wish to change it more than that? Lehman/Wait a minute let me ask you a question Marian. Does that mean that all of the horses that we see everyday downtown in the streets have had their medicals? Karr/I would like to say that yes. Lehman/Do you really believe that? Karr/I don't see a lot of horses downtown do you? Lehman/That kind of depends. Do we have a procedure? Karr/I'm sorry. Lehman/Do we have a procedure in place now for the permits for those horses that they have to have permission signed by their veterinarian that they're healthy and all of that good stuff and recertified every six months and they went to horsy school? Pfab/Isn't this kind of like a doggy? Karr/I don't, we don't have a lot of dogs hire vehicles. No the only addition is the provision adding reference to the animal control department, the other provisions are currently in place. Lehman/So we have healthy horses. Karr/I hope so yes. But it's entirely, ifthere's a majority of Council who wish to revisit that but I just wanted to clarify that's the only change in that section. Lehman/I'll read it before tomorrow night, other agenda items. Kanner/Yea, number 6, call me sentimental but I like taxicab actually and we I don't know why we can't just keep it and call it taxicab instead of vehicle for hire. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 35 Karr/Well the reason we changed it to vehicle for hire was because we had a number of vehicles that were mini vans and limousines and those folks really objected to it being called a taxicab in the traditional sense of the word so it was easier to call it a vehicle for hire and make the same requirements regardless of the size of the vehicle. Lehman/Okay. O'Donnell/Let's move right through that one. Kanner/A little more serious note on that one though actually, in regards to state criminal history, that' s new in here. Karr/Yes sir. Karmer/It seems a little loose here, it says if we find something in state criminal history the refusal to issue a driving badge may be based on an adverse driving record and/or conviction of other crimes or in the case of a horse drawn vehicle operating failure, who determines that? Is that the City Clerk or? Dilkes/The Police Chief. Kanner/The Police Chief, that's right. Pfab/Now are we going to terrorize these ordinances also so just not to state but maybe there's national or international problems? I'm serious, I mean, it's a little facetious but the way we're going we may, if we aren't careful we might have a snatch in here by the U. S. Attorney General and get him because of some problem he may have or she may have. Kanner/And so the person that would appeal this to the City Council if the Police Chief denied it, is their a formal appeal process to this? Dilkes/I'm not sure I'll have to look in here. Kanner/What I'd like is if there isn't I think we should have an official appeal process that' s written into the ordinance that says if your denied by the Police Chief because of this that it would come before City Coancil. Champion/They always have that right. Lehman/No, there are certain things that. Dilkes/I don't think there is one. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 36 Champion/But if you have a criminal record and your denied the right to drive a limousine or. Lehman/Vehicle for hire. Champion/Vehicle for hire or a horse, that might be a valid reason I don't think (can't hear). Pfab/Maybe a Ryder truck loaded with a little bit of ammonia. Kanner/Well the reason Cormie I say this should be appealed because it's a little vague here, there' s different crimes that are committed perhaps, one's that wouldn't lead to a dangerous driving condition. Dilkes/I believe if the Police Chief has standards that he's established by memo as to when, that he uses when he reviews these, we certainly could add an appeal if that's something (can't hear). Kanner/I would like to proposal that we add an appeal to the City Council for this. Lehman/We can make that amendment tomorrow night when we consider the ordinance. Karr/Point of clarification, would that be for every taxi driver or for every company application, because it's in there twice just so you think about it for tomorrow evening. O'Donnell/Only the ones driving the horse. Karr/We have 180 licensed cab drivers. Kanner/Well I didn't understand the difference Marjan. Karr/It's in there twice in the ordinance, one is for the company application, okay, the other is for the individual drivers. Are you making a suggestion that it be for both? Kanner/Yea anybody that would be denied (can't hear). Karr/I just want to clarify okay. Kanner/(Can't hear). Karr/In both. Vanderhoef/Appealed what? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 37 Kanner/It would be appealed to both City Council, it would be appealed to City Council. O'Donnell/I would assume the Chief would have certain criteria that he based that denial on and I just. Champion/We can vote on it tomorrow night. Lehman/Okay other agenda items. ITEM NO. 3F(1) CORRESPONDENCE. MARK HOLLINGSWORTH: MENTAL ILLNESS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT. Kanner/Steve we got a correspondence from Mark Hollingsworth, it's number 3fpage 73, tips on law enforcement, (can't hear) dealing with the mentally ill. We do a pretty good from what I've seen, do we have any formal training in that? Atkins/Yes, yes we do. Kanner/Could I get that? Arkins/Some idea what it's about. Kanner/Yea that information and I don't know if anyone else is interested but I'd like to see what type of training we do. Atkins/Okay I' 11 take care of that. Pfab/I would ask a question, that brings up a point. Does the police system, the police officers have someone on call that they can, or that' s available, I shouldn't say on call that might be too strong, that if they come into a situation where obviously is mentally ill and they're having a problem that rather than spend a lot of police time on it there' s some way it can be handled? Atkins/I'm sure what they assume Irvin is the hospitals are open 24 hours if they find themselves in a circumstance that their uncomfortable with, I'm sure they would go to the Psychiatric Hospital for sure at the University. Wilburn/And if I could just add, part of the training comes through the mandatory training, the mandatory training they do that they open up to the area, the County and to Coralville. Atkins/And they also have to serve, serve certain papers on folks who are going to be committed, again I'm also positive they have some reasonable formal training. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 38 Wilbum/It's been my experience that they had made use of both community mental health staff and various youth agencies through the staff. Pfab/So they have a way to contact if something comes up. Wilburn/They have resources, that I've experienced anyway. Pfab/Okay. Vanderhoef/Are you finished Steven? Kanner/Yes. Item No. 7. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 6 OF THE CITY CODE, ENTITLED "PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY" BY REPEALING CHAPTER 7, ENTITLED "SMOKING N PUBLIC PLACES" AND ENACTING A NEW CHAPTER 7, ENTITLED "SMOKING IN FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS," (FIRST CONSIDERATION) Vanderhoef/I have something that came up for me over the weekend on smoking ordinance and I started looking at it and I talked to Eleanor briefly this aftemoon and she's mulling it at this point. Anyway the ordinance is silent on cover charges and I think just a definition of cover charge might be appropriate in there as for instance as an entertainment fee therefore it would be very clear that any cover charge would not be assigned either to food or to alcohol in their gross sales. And I would ask for some instance from legal to help draft something that would put that into the ordinance and hopefully be clarifying for everyone. Pfab/So the question I would ask you Dee and I'm not sure you've thought about it. Would that cover fee be limited to paying for entertainment? Vanderhoef/Well that would be my idea of a cover charge is for the entertainment fee and the use of the facilities but it is not a piece of your gross sales for either food or. Pfab/For either of. Franklin/For either. Pfab/It would be a separate item, Vanderhoef/Yes. Kanner/Dee tell me, I have a little (can't hear) this, how does that affect the smoking ordinance, does it move people one way or which way does it move them? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 39 Vanderhoef/It could, I'm not saying it may not, I'm just saying as a definition it would be clarifying for our ordinance to know that that cover charge dollars were not being figured into the gross of either alcohol or food. Kanner/I think it makes sense and I'm trying to figure out, if that were added in that would mean their gross sales would be more and their, it would lower their percentage of alcohol sales possibly. Vanderhoef/It could or likewise. Kanner/(Can't hear) this could possibly raise the percentage. Lehman/Or they could conceivably contribute it all to food or to alcohol to alter their formulas, so if you take it out totally it would no have no affect on alcohol (can't hear). Pfab/Right, it's to neutralize it. Vanderhoef/We can talk about it tomorrow but I just wanted to alert everyone that. Pfab/I think that's an interesting idea to. Dilkes/Just remember what we're focusing on is they have to show that their sales of alcoholic beverages exceed a certain amount, when Dee and I spoke, I'm aware of that particular manipulation coming up in the context of a situation where the establishment would want to artificially decrease their alcohol sales but in this situation you want more alcohol sales to be exempted from the ordinance so I'm not sure how that plays out. We've talked about this before in the context of the 21 ordinance and that manipulation had been brought up at that time, I have not been aware of that being an issue with the smoking. I mean those are just the kind of conversation Dee and I had today. I mean there are a number of, I suppose one can imagine a number of manipulations if you want to call them that but I'm concerned, I have some concern about complicating the definition rather than amending it if we need to if it becomes problematic, but those are just my thoughts. Lehman/Any other agenda items, well if not we're going to do Appointments. _Annointments Lehman/Board of Adjustment we didn't have any application, Board of Appeals we didn't have any applications as I recall. The Human Rights Commission, we have five applications for three vacancies. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 40 Champion/I'd like to. Lehman/Go ahead. Champion/Well I would like to nominate Rick Spooner, but did he resign or did he want off that, I don't remember, I didn't get a chance to call. Vanderhoeff I checked on it today and as I got information from the Human Rights staff people, it was that he had health problems at the time that he resigned and now he is reapplying, evidently his health problems have been resolved. O'Donnell/Okay fine. Lehman/The deadline for applications for this was November 14th and because we've had problems in the past with applications coming in as late as 5:00 on the night of a meeting, we set a deadline, it's only fair to tell you that there are other folks who have either made or would like to make applications for this, now we did make a rule that applications need to be in by a certain time. And we do have five applications for three positions. Pfab/But we've also said at other times that we would just as soon wait for another larger group of applicants. Lehman/Well I think if we are unable to find three people that we wish to appoint, then we would have to then readvertise and then we could not make the appointment until January because there' s not enough time to advertise and the next meeting, that's just for your information. Champion/Right I think we should stick with our rule instead of changing all the time. Lehman/I hear Rick Spooner as one of those proposed, do we have four people to support Rick? Wilbum/Sure. Lehma2~/Okay Rick is one of them. Wilburn/How about, (can't hear) Lucia Mai Page (can't hear) is currently on HCDC, her term is ending. Lehman/This is who Page? Wilburn/Page, yea. Lehman/We have, your presenting her name? Are there four people who would concur? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 41 Champion/My only objection to her was we already have four females and two males, I thought she was a good, I mean they're all really good candidates and so I was thinking towards Bobby Peffer for that reason but. Do you have four votes for her? Lehman/Yea I think we do. Champion/Okay I don't have any problem with that. Vanderhoeff Bobby Peffer, well we've got three appointments. Lehman/We have one more to go. Champion/Oh I thought we only had two. Lehman/We have three so. Vanderhoef/Bobby Peffer I agree is a good candidate. Lehman/Are you putting up? Champion/I did. Lehman/Is that Peffer? Champion/Peffer I think. Vanderhoef/Peffer with an e. Lehman/Do we have four who would support, okay. Parks and Recreation Commission we have. Karr/I'm sorry Ernie could you repeat the three. Lehman/Rick Spooner, Lucia Mai Page and Bobby Peffer. Karr/Thank you. Lehman/Parks and Recreation Commission we have one vacancy and three applicants, do we have any nominations I suspect is the correct term. O'Donnell/(can't hear). Vanderhoel7 Westefeld. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 42 Wilburn/Westefeld. Lehman/What's your pleasure guys? Kevin Shannon was the first name that comes up, is there four people that would support? Well, John Westefeld. Vanderhoef/I can (can't hear). Lehman/I think we have, all right John Westefeld. Champion/(can't hear). Lehman/I think they're all very good. Public Art Advisory Committee. Vanderhoef/I think Barbara Camillo. (END OF 104, SIDE TWO) Lehman/We have consensus on that one, okay who' s the second one? Vanderhoef/I would choose to readvertise after this, we have two incomplete applications from the other two applicants and so I'd like to readvertise. Champion/(can't hear). Vanderhoef/They didn't fill out all the paperwork, unless it come in later did it Marian? Kanner/What was the, what didn't they fill out Dee? Lehman/It says on the application, or on the sheet in the packet there is a box that is checked if the applicant' s completed the confidential page of the application and I think we did say that we are requiring that that be filled out in order to be considered. Champion/Right. O'Donnell/Fine. Lehman/So we're going to appoint Barb Camillo and ask for, and readvertise or at the same time perhaps we should ask those people if they wish to complete their applications. Pfab/Well they can do that (can't hear). Karr/Well no that's two difl~rent. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 43 Pfab/You have to readvertise. Vanderhoef/You have to readvertise. Karr/Yes they could readvertise, reapply. Vanderhoef/And they can complete the application if they choose to. Lehman/And then we have the Senior Center Commission. Champion/That' s an easy one. Vanderhoef/Yea reappoint our two. Lehman/We have two folks who are presenting serving that have reapplied Jay Honohan and William Kelly, do we have approval of that? Champion/Oh totally. Lehman/Okay. That was good, now Gas and Electric Franchise, we have someone here from MidAmerican Energy who will make a presentation at this point. Okay we'll take five minutes and then we'll start and we have, Council remembers we are going to have representatives from MidAmerican Energy make a presentation, we'll also have a presentation from the citizens group who is interested in having the City look at city franchise and we'll be getting into that discussion I'm sure sometime after the first of the year. Gas & Electric Franchise Terry Smith/(Can't hear) Resident of Iowa City since 1995, I have with me tonight a number of other staff members from MidAmerican, they're experts in various areas of the field, and should you pose any tough questions to me I will defer to them but we will do our best to get you answers to any of those questions this evening here. We have passed out a number of booklets, some very detailed information about our organization, all of the information that we will cover in our slides tonight and we go into much greater detail in those handout booklets so we offer that at your disposal to cruise and glance through so. I'd just like to thank Council for the opportunity to present some information here from MidAmerican Energy point of view and without further ado I will get right into it. The format for this evening I guess, I would like to cover a little bit about who is MidAmerican Energy, some specifics about Iowa City territory, some electric supply issues on the electric side as well as the natural gas side. Energy supply options that all customers have or all utilities and municipalities have and then finally some franchise specific information all of which again is covered in your This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 44 books in very great detail. At the highest level MidAmerican holding company is a global energy company, we serve over 5 million customers worldwide, we have approximately 10,000 megawatts of generation capacity in operation, construction, development are under contract. We have 148 billion cubic feet of net reserves of natural gas and we employ over 9,600 employees. This map helps you visual the diversity of MidAmerican Energy holding companies, we have two utility based operations, MidAmerican Energy in Iowa as well as Northern Electric in the United Kingdom. We have our generation plants all around the world including the hydroplants in the Philippines that just went into operation this year as well as our Geo Thermal Plants in Califomia, we also have gas reserves indicated in blue in Australia, Poland and in the North Seas. A little closer to home MidAmerican Energy service territory covers principally the state of Iowa with a little bit into the Illinois, South Dakota and Nebraska territories. We serve 10,600 square miles of territory, we have 669,000 electric customers of which 29,000 are located within the city limits of Iowa City, we have 646,000 gas customers of which 22,000 are located in the city limits of Iowa City. A little bit about our Iowa City locations locally. I think it's safe to say we've been providing to Iowa City from MidAmerican or it's predecessor companies for longer than anyone in this room can remember, since 1857. We have over 70 employees working out of our lower Muscatine Road service center location with an annual payroll in excess of $6.3 million dollars. And here to date we've had over 280,000 contacts with our Iowa City customers, those are customer initiated contacts where they've been initiator of that contact with us. From a disaster response, our 70 local employees which consist of 16 of them on the, in the lineman classification, as well as 20 of them in gas journeyman classifications provide our immediate response in storms and outage restoration. In addition to that we have 302 lineman across the state to help assist in devastating events as well as 219 gas journeyman across the state to assist us when called upon. We also belong to 2 mutual aid assistance agencies that we provide support to them when disaster calls upon them and likewise they're available to call upon when disaster should strike us. From an electric service reliability standpoint one of the indices or measures that we have, we've indicated here, and I think this slide does a fine job of indicating what our local employees do and how good a job they operate our local systems. What these numbers really show is year after year our typical Iowa City electric customer has power 99.9 percent of the time. On average except for one hour over the course of a 12 month period, the power is on when you need it. From a gas operating standpoint, locally we've shortened our gas response time, we've worked with Iowa City fire department to help improve some responses in that area. We've also eliminated mercury from our system to help promote the environment as well as we've provided leak detectors to our meter readers to help promote safety to our customers. Our local system investments, in the next decade we plan to invest of excess $20 million dollars locally in improvements to the facilities. We maintain an inventory in excess of a half a million dollars locally for construction maintenance projects, emergency needs and on an annual basis we issue over a $1 million dollars through that store This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 45 room and materials. From a property tax perspective, I think MidAmerican Energy is estimating that we're the largest property tax entity in Iowa City. For the city on an annual basis this amounts to $672,000, for the schools $523, and for the County $250,000, in total just under $1.5 million dollars to the local Iowa City area in property tax payments. Over the 15 year life of the proposed life agreement, that equates to about $10 million dollars for the City, $7.8 for the community schools, $3.8 for Johnson County and in total $22.3 million dollars over a 15 year period with assuming no property tax increases which I'm sure you all can support. In addition to supplying gas and electricity MidAmerican is also proud ofit's energy efficiency campaigns, we've invested over $685,000 locally in Iowa City in energy efficiency efforts. On the residential side that includes our air conditioning lobe control programs, our home energy audits, the energy efficiency appliance incentives as well as insulation and window program. On the commercial side it's incentives for efficiency on HVAC equipment, lighting, customized building systems, commemial audits, and industrial process optimization. Taking care of our fellow citizens is also important to MidAmerican, our I-care program takes care of company contributions as well as our customer contributions and we provided over $350,000 locally to those agencies to help the Iowa City area low income customers. In the area of economic development, we're very active and happy to serve the Iowa City community to become a growing community. John Wetzel who's here with us tonight has been on the ICAD Board since 1995, your binder section has significant amount of economic development information in it that I extend to you tonight. As well as we are 50 percent partner in the Northgate development here in Iowa City. One of the issues that we've heard mentioned a lot is concemed about stable electric rates, this chart shows both the nominal price in red as well as the real price adjusted for inflation in yellow over the course of a 10 year period. In 1997 we reduced our residential electric rates by 4.2 percent, and we also eliminated the energy adjustment clause which had a tendency to increase rates sparatically for customers. Kanner/(cant' hear). Smith/We eliminated the energy adjustment clause so as the price of fuel went up for our generating we adjusted the rates for the residential markets accordingly, that was eliminated in 1997. In July of this year we also announced another plan which is proposed to freeze the electric rates to our residential customers through the year 2005. Again I think this chart is very reflective of how we've been able to successfully manage and control our costs for an extended period of time as well as an indication of what our future holds. Some energy supply issues that we can cover, first from an electric perspective, electric service territory map here indicates our principal generating facilities that we have across the state of Iowa and it's borders. It also shows the highest voItage transmission lines that the company either owns, operates or is partnership with to help distribute that electricity across the state. Our electric generating capacity in base load, we have This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Cotmcil Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 46 3,628 mega watts currently available as well as a peaking capacity available of 1,095 mega watts, some of those are located in Coralville with our combustion turbance, those are peaking plants. This is the primary product that allows us to provide stable prices and reliable service to not only Iowa City but other Iowa communities. Champion/I have to ask a really stupid question, (can't hear) can you give me an idea about what 3,628 mega watts is. I mean how many mega watts would Iowa City use in a day? Smith/A typical peak mega watt for Iowa City would probably be around 140 mega watts. Champion/Okay, all right, that helps. Smith/And this is the generating capacity across the state from the plants that we've identified. Our peak system demands are just slightly above the base load numbers that we have there currently for our entire system across the entire state for the territories that we serve. Champion/Thank you. (Can't hear). I know everybody else understood that. Smith/You've never had a class on mega watts before, we'll work on that. In July of this year MidAmerican announced it's plans to develop new energy supply markets in Iowa, we intend to invest in Iowa and help promote Iowa, total contributions will be slightly over $1.5 billion dollars invested over a 7 year period, that investment is being primarily made in two sites. First a 540 mega watt, about 4 times the size of Iowa City, combined cycle natural gas plant, as well as a 900 mega watt base coal plant that is yet to be sited. The combined cycle plant will be located near Des Moines, the equipment has been placed on order, we are starting the permit process and that project is definitely a go, we expect the announcement on the 900 mega watt coal plant very soon for a siting of that plant. In total those two plants will bring $3.6 million dollars in new property tax revenues to the State of Iowa, it will also bring 1,600 construction jobs during the construction of those plants and once those plants are in operation it will add an additional $6 million dollars in annual payroll for full time jobs to operate those plants. Renewable energy, something very important to MidAmerican as well, through our investments in hydroplants in Moline or hydrodamns in the Philippines that I mentioned earlier, or Geo Thermal Plants in California. We're also experimenting with switch grass down at the Ottumwa station as well as the combined cycle plants in Illinois and Des Moines that are going to be built. The wind energy that's currently produced at Ulta Base Wind Energy Farm MidAmerican purchases half of the output of that location. Kanner/You own pan of it. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 47 Smith/We do not o~vn it we only purchase it's output, correct me if I'm wrong experts. Wetzel/That' s correct. Smith/Also MidAmerican is currently reviewing more than 20 proposals to develop an additional 100 mega watts of wind power, just slightly under the capacity of Iowa City community and that capacity of Iowa City is our service tenitory here including Coralville, University Heights and Johnson County. From a gas storage facility, gas system, this map indicates the primary suppliers and their pipeline locations across the state. There are four principal providers, Northern Border, A & R, Northern Natural and Northern Gas Pipe Line. In addition to t hat MidAmerican also has liquified natural gas storage facilities in Bettendorf, West Des Moines and Waterloo as well as propane air injection sites in Des Moines and Sioux City which we've identified on the map. Lehman/Isn't there a facility just east of Iowa City with underground natural gas storage? Smith/Yes there is. Lehman/Not yours. Smith/It's not ours though. Lehman/Why don't you buy it? Smith/Natural gas supply resources, MidAmerican manages this effort very strongly, we dedicate 15 full time staff working on the supply of natural gas on a continuous basis. The reason is because in 2000 we pumhased $450 million dollars worth of natural gas from those various suppliers. In addition we have at the storage that we identified there as well as we have additional lease storage just east of Iowa City is one location as well as others. Fluctuation in those gas prices, 10 percent fluctuation can be a significant impact to our customers at the residential level and that's what we try to avoid. Because MidAmerican has access to the four different pipelines we can use what we call competitive inner play to help keep the transportation costs down. This is a key issue for any municipality, any municipal gas utility would be locked into a single provider, they would not have that economic advantage. And so when we look at energy supply options a new municipal would be forced to meet it's energy requirements to the purchase of wholesale electric markets as well as gas markets. The market is extremely volatile as evident by the following slides that I'll present here. The point of reference here we've plotted out both the NASDAQ volatility and the Dow Jones volatility indexes for natural gas here over a course of several years. If we overlay the gas volatility's with electric volatility's you'll notice that those gas volatility's are dwarfed at the bottom of your screen. The electric market is the most volatile This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 48 commodity being traded, natural gas is the second most volatile market being traded, it requires an extensive effort to manage both of these resources in the supply and demand market. Kanner/Wait these are prices that customers are paying or are these stock market prices? Smith/These are market prices that if you go out to purchase, if your not providing your own energy supplies and your going to purchase them from the financial markets this is what the market price would bear over the course of time. Kanner/What is NASDAQ, what is NASDAQ? Smith/The NASDAQ stock exchange market prices there. Kanner/Yea I don't understand. Smith/Let me call upon an expert here if I could. Lehman/Speak into the mic so we can hear you. Mark Hewett/My name is Mark Hewett, I'm Vice President of. Lehman/Speak into the microphone so we can record it. Hewett/My name is Mark Hewett, I'm Vice President of Energy Trading at MidAmerican. The first two slides that were referenced, were again just point of reference, they were showing the Dow Jones industrial average prices, stock market prices and the also the NASDAQ prices over a period of time. And what we wanted to do by illustrating that is just to give you a frame of reference, people believe that the stock market is volatile and in fact it has been very volatile over the last year but you see when you overlay wholesale gas and electric prices on top of the stock market illustrations the variance is hardly recognizable, looks fairly flat, stable prices when in fact again we know it's not but again the magnitude of volatility in energy dwarfs that of the equities market. Pfab/I have a question. How much of your supply of energy, the raw energy where, is toward purchase? Is it hedged or what not? Hewett/Yes we utilize the financial markets quite extensively as well as purchase physical coal for example under multi year agreements of fixed prices. Kanner/Mark I don't want to delabor this too much but I just don't see the difference, where are the stock market prices versus the wholesale prices on that chart? Smith/Okay the top line. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Coancil Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 49 Hewett/Illustrates wholesale electric prices, the most volatile line, the second line down is, I'm a little bit color blind but I believe it's purple up at the square, that would represent natural gas wholesale, natural gas price volatility. And then the bottom two lines the yellow and the, it looks like the red with the single X would be the Dow and the NASDAQ respectively. Can we back up a slide here? Again the scale changes significantly between the two slides, over on the Y Axis we're working in increments of 2 percent and if we advance here you know we're working in terms of 50 percent increments on the axis. So again when you overlay volatility's you can't hardly see the volatility's in the stock market in comparison to the volatility of the wholesale energy market. Smith/Yea I knew there was a reason we needed all the experts here. Why is the electric market volatile? The answer's fairly simple, electricity must be created and delivered on demand. Electricity can not be feasibly or economically stored for use later as well as there are transmission lines that are constraints in delivering supplies from where they're being generated to where they're being used, those are the primary reasons. Can electric wholesale prices be managed? To some extent yes they can however there are significant risks involved. Some risks are in the financial markets as the slides would indicate, physical contracts can be used to help hedge those price exposures against significant fluctuations, however there are risks to be involved there. The first question you'd have to ask yourself in looking at physical markets is where would I purchase from? And (can't hear) is a name that' s been known in the business for a long period of time, it's well known in the energy markets, and (can't hear) has been around for a number of years if you've watched them closely lately you know that their on the brink of bankruptcy, there stock prices have gone from $90 down to $4 and they will probably not be in the energy markets much longer in their current status so while you may think you have a long term contract in place with a reputable supplier that may be prove to be false at time, there are risks involved. As well as the protections that are granted with long term agreements, our only good for the term for which the agreement lasts, if it's a two year, four year, five year whatever that might be, at the end of the agreement all bets are off, the supply and demand market again will set the current rate of energy. The overall point is that the wholesale electric market is extremely volatile and there is much uncertainty regarding the future transmission market place. Why expose Iowa City and the residents and businesses to unnecessary economic risk when you've got a current provider at stable prices historically as well as projected into the future. Some specific franchise information, again this is covered in detail in your books, and I would encourage you to reference those documents as needed. I preference all of this by saying this is work in progress through these documents. The first question about what is a franchise agreement, you've probably heard it a number of times already but it's a formal agreement between the City and the company that allows us to use the public areas for our facilities. It also provides certain provisions for both the City as well as the company to adhere to. Iowa has This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 50 exclusive service territories even though the franchise has currently expired, MidAmerican has an obligation to serve those electric customers in it's service territories. There are no exclusive service territories on the natural gas side of the business however. Why is a franchise important? Primarily it's the only recognized method in the code of Iowa, no other method of authorizing the utility company to use a right of way in the city is written into the code. The binds and successors agreements within those documents are also key to the communities and to the customers they protect in the event of reorganizations or buy out of the providing utility companies. Specific to the Iowa City franchise ordinance, the general terms in many cases are rights of occupied right of way as I've mentioned, sell and deliver power, the key issues here are the no cost relocation's for the city and the real key issue is perhaps indemnification, indemnification as you talked about earlier tonight indemnification is an important issue to consider. Without a franchise agreement in place in the event someone is injured in the right of way by a facility owned and operated by MidAmerican there's no protection for the city in the event that customer should seek to come seek claim against the city without an ordinance in place. Again I preference this by saying this is a work in progress document, the things that are unique to the Iowa City franchise currently is a duration of 15 years with the ability to amend at the end of eight years, if all parties can not agree to those amendments at the end of eight years then the contract or the franchise would end at the end of 10 years. Our standard agreements are typically 25 years in length. Some of the other specifics are mentioned here and again covered well in the books and I'll leave you to read. Other items that are unique to Iowa City is that the event the city becomes a generator or producer of electricity as well as authorizing the purchase of power from sources other than MidAmerican in general both the city and MidAmerican I think have agreement from both parties on satisfactory language with just a few exceptions. Currently MidAmerican cannot accept a couple of phrases that are currently listed in the draft document and we just need to negotiate a little further with staff if so directed. But for the most part we have a general consensus on all the major key issues I believe. Finally why have a franchise agreement with MidAmerican Energy? MidAmerican Energy takes the electric supply risks and there are significant risks involved, we offer rate protection to the customers and the communities that we serve, we know the Iowa City people, we know the Iowa City system, still the same people that' s been here for a number of years, we've got the mass to provide emergency response locally and do the job well and we can assure a low cost electric supply as well as gas supply and provide a reliable product and we're currently preparing for the future. With that I would like to entertain any questions that you might have. Vanderhoef/I was curious you mentioned looking at a wind farm and I guess I have two questions. Is southeast Iowa an area where you can produce enough electricity through a wind farm or do you need to go further north and northwest where the present wind farm is? This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 51 Smith/The information I have indicates the best place to do it in Iowa is in the noahwest comer of the state, that' s where the wind is the most consistent and reliable to produce generation of electricity through wind, it can be done anywhere that the wind blows obviously, it's just not economical or feasible to do in this part of the state as it is in the noahwest part of the state. Lehman/Your regulated by the state. Smith/Absolutely. Lehman/What is the margin the state allows the utility company as far as return on investment or percentage profit? Smith/I'd have to defer to one of my experts here, I have Greg Schaefer from our rates department that if he'd like to come and respond to that question we can do so. Greg Schaefer/Hi I'm Greg Schaefer with regulated pricing from Davenport. Your question was what margin or what return would the Board allow. And it varies from time to time, the Board looks at current markets, looks at markets on bonds, and recognizes that investors who have stock in the company are taking a larger risk than those with bonds. What they've typically done is look at what our high rated utility bonds are earning at that point and then add a margin to that and then adjust that on other conditions. You know our last case, our last electric case if we earned more than 12 percent in any one year we were to share that back with the customers and there have been a number of credits over the past couple of years. The actual number is going to very from case to case. Smith/Other questions. Andy Matthews/If Council doesn't mind I have a couple questions. Lehman/Andy we need you to talk in the microphone. Matthews/Terry you indicated that your planning on new energy supplies in Iowa, I presume the coal fired plant would remain on the regulated side and at some point those rates would be approved by the IEB and passed onto residential customers. Correct. Smith/Both of the plants that I mentioned the 540 mega watt combined cycle plant, as well as the 900 mega watt coal fired plant would both be owned by the regulated utility. The construction of the combined cycle will take place here in the next year and they would be factored into the rate base. Matthews/So all of that would be on the regulated side of rates and not the non regulated side on all those energy proposals. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 52 Smith/The portion of the plants that MidAmerican owns would be on the rate side of it, we're currently seeking partners to help in the construction of the coal fired plant but we're committed to build it with or without partners. Matthews/And would wind generation also be regulated through IEB? Smith/If we built it or if we bought those contracts, it depends on how we enter into the contracts, if we enter into them with the MidAmerican Energy company rate regulated utility then they are a part of the rate case, the holding company plants in the Philippines and California and Texas and New York and etc. they're not part of the rate base and so it depends on whether our holding company or our rate regulated utility is under contract with those. Matthews/Thank you that's it. Smith/Thank you Andy. Kanner/Andy can you (can't hear) a bit on why you asked that question since. Matthews/Well you know there are various Boards or Commissions that regulate prices, you have on the federal level, (can't hear) or on the state level you have the IUB, some activities utilities engage in that are in the generating arena can be on the non regulated side meaning that the 1UB does not regulate it in a rate case and does not establish the fees to be charge and I was curious with the expansion or the planned expansion of additional energy sources where would that fall. Smith/I believe our current proposal with the Iowa Utilities Board secures stable pricing through the end of 2005 and then potential moderate increases for the period beyond that, there's no projected substantial increases for those plants in mind. Vanderhoef/And so your saying that those rate changes would basically come in when these plants come on line. Smith/In the agreement proposed with the Iowa Utility Board we would freeze rates through the end of 2005, the 540 mega watt combined cycle plant in Des Moines would be on line prior to that so there would not be any rate recovery until after that point. Vanderhoef/How long will it take to build the coal plant once you get it sited, I mean the actual construction time? Smith/I'm not sure, Louisa took us about 10 years to build I believe but there were some significant permitting issues and all involved in there, those are the primary issues they have to get over first, it takes a couple years to build a coal site but a lot of This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 53 that is going to be dependent on the location whether it's adjacent to existing facility and whether infrastructures are already in place to support that, so it can vary significantly. Pfab/You are locked into a rate until the end of 2005 I believe you stated. Smith/That' s our current proposal, I don't believe that's been approved yet by the Iowa Utilities Board, but that's the proposal. Pfab/But at this point you are not locked into anything. Smith/The Iowa Utilities Board regulates the rates that we can charge so we are always locked into a rate that can be charged to our customers. Pfab/But it's a fluctuating rate now. Smith/No it's a fixed rate that in 1997 we reached an agreement with the Iowa Utilities Board at that point in time to reduce rates 4.2 percent to residential customers and we've been holding them stable since 1997 and we're currently negotiating rate changes which basically would be zero through the end of 2005. Champion/When you reduce those rates? I'm going to ask you a straight forward question. Did you reduce them because there was pressure because you were overcharging the public? Smith/In 1995 we entered into a merger with Iowa Illinois Gas and Electric out of the Quad Cities, Iowa Power out of Des Moines and Iowa Public Service out of Sioux City. The merger of those three companies created some synergy's in operation and improved our operating efficiencies and as a result of those operation efficiencies we were able to pass on a rate reduction to our customers. Champion/Good. Lehman/That' s a pretty good answer. Kanner/Consumer' s council seek a rate reduction actually saying that our prices should be lower than what you originally proposed before you have this tentative agreement. Smith/It in the most recent filing. Kanner/That our rates should be going down close to 7 percent and actually we should have steep reduction instead of what' s being offered or what' s being proposed or what has been offered in the past and. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 54 Smith/I believe the first filing with the Iowa Utilities Board was with a consumer advocacy group that was promoting a rate decrease of several million dollars, MidAmerican looked at the numbers and from our numbers we saw a several million dollar increase in rates and they negotiated with the Iowa Utilities Board as well as those consumer groups and have a tentative agreement I believe for a zero change or a frozen rate change through the end of 2005. Kanner/You mentioned, well, the main thing we're looking at is the franchise agreement, w(re not necessarily looking at municipal electric at this time, this is something that maybe we'll look at in the future. Smith/Sure. Kanner/The purpose is to see if we want a shorter franchise agreement, that gives us that flexibility and you would say a main reason to have a franchise agreement of 10 years which you apparently MidAmerican has agreed to that 10 year figure. Smith/We're currently in agreement with the 15 year with an eight year open or in 10 year opt out if we haven't reached, correct. Kanner/Ten year opt out, basically would be 10 years if you disagreed with the eight years. Smith/Under worse case scenario, yes. Kanner/And so you kind of tentatively agreed to that 10 years. There have been figures floating around of 4 years or less for a franchise agreement, can you make a stronger case? Again I didn't hear the stronger case of why we need that 10 year 15 year agreement or why we need any agreement at all, I'm not hearing that. Indemnification I'm sure we're protected in other ways anyhow, different provisions perhaps in the state and also with general case laws, I assume that would be there, can you make a stronger case of why we need that 10 or 15 year agreement? Smith/A franchise agreement in general is in many ways a formality that provides protection for the company as well as for the city. There's a not a strong compelling case beyond that in my opinion I guess for that, but those protections are important, they do provide the protection for the company to sell and operate facilities within the community, we have operated in other communities without franchise agreement for a period of time and the customers have suffered as a result of that, whether it's extending natural gas service to them and the legalities of permitting an issue in use of public rights of ways have come into play and it's been a problem at times. However we have operated, we currently are operating in Iowa City without a franchise, the franchise has expired and so it can be done. The franchise agreement has to be mutually agreeable to both parties, it's not This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 55 strictly up to the city to determine a length of time and then pass it on to MidAmerican, obviously MidAmerican has to agree with it, so I think there' s a fundamental question of can MidAmerican agree to a shorter term agreement? Our current position is we would not want to do that short of some other options. We're always willing to look at other options, if the proposal is to be a shorter agreement up front with extending it on the other end of it should the City not decide to form a municipality, those kinds of things could be further discussed and negotiated I think between staff and MidAmerican. Dilkes/Emie, I'd like Andy to just comment on the indemnification provision, I think it has some significance. Lehman/Yea, right. Matthews/Thank you, if I may, the indemnification provision in the franchise language or the franchise ordinances are our best measure of protection for any unfortunate incidents or events that occur within the right of way on the gas or the electric side. Absent that there are no specific code provisions that would offer legitimate measure of protection for the City apart from the general negligence standards and as you know when the City owns and controls the right of way there' s potential liability as a result of that. How liable would the City would be is fact specific for every such incident or accident? Vanderhoef/Terry this may be a crazy question but you mentioned that your looking for a partner to help build the coal plant. Have you ever partnered with a city or a county or a government body? Smith/I'm seeing heads shaking yes we have, if you'd like to come up and elaborate on it we can give you some specific examples perhaps. Jim Wilson/My name is Jim Wilson, I work with the regulatory relations aspect of the company and all of our (can't hear) the plants we showed them the slides a while ago, all of the plants around the State of Iowa are jointly owned by several entities. We're very proud of the fact that Iowa is one of the few states where the (can't hear) utilities partner with municipals and other REC, Rural Electric Cooperatives, all own a share of our large power plants, we're very proud of that, it's very unique in the State of Iowa, and when we do this 900 mega watt new plant, a new coal plant we're actually looking for other partners including in fact a municipal league in Iowa will be part owner of that plant as well as some cooperatives, and there are some other public agencies that can do the same thing and so the answer is yes and we plan to continue to do that. Vanderhoef/Tell me what would be the advantage seeing Iowa City has never been involved in a partnership to my knowledge at least and I don't think so but what This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 56 would you give me as a selling point, why, what advantage would it be to us to have partnering with you? Wilson/In the large power plants, the ones we have now run 600 or so mega watt range, very large, but we're talking about a larger one here, the kinds of scale operating those plants is very good, much better if you built a smaller plant on your own in within Iowa City or close to Iowa City and so the advantages of we could built it a lot cheaper for unit of production and we have a larger coal contract capability which makes it easier to hold the cost down and producing the power, a lot cheaper than if Iowa City would do it on it's own. Vanderhoef/Well it would be cheaper than Iowa City doing it on it's own but how could I sell this to my citizens that would they have a better rate because of our participation in the production of electricity? Wilson/Yes I believe they would just because of the kind of scale, it' s a much larger unit and so the unit of production is much lower so you have a lower production rate and a lower price thar~ what you'd build one on your own. Vanderhoef/Okay I'm not quite getting to where I'm trying to go with this. I'm sorry. Wilson/Okay try it again. Vanderhoef/So if other people partner with you and you tell, is there a difference between the rates that. (END OF 105, SIDE ONE) Vanderhoef/If you didn't. Wilson/Well it kind of depends on what arrangements you made as if Iowa City, whether you partner with somebody else or go your own way, I feel strongly that if you went with a larger generating station with the kinds of scale you'd have a better chance at a (can't hear) deal than if you didn't. The way things are in the future, who knows, costs go up, costs come down, but I feel strong that those costs of production are not going to go down as building the plant. Production costs and the coal costs and so forth will fluctuate over time. Vanderhoef/And so when your talking about partnering with a government body what is it that other than money to help build, what other things are you looking at in that partnership? Wilson/We usually operate the plant as well, we build the plant, we operate the plant, and then there's an equity of ownership on the part of the people who buy into that plant, so you have that going for you and it's much cheaper to do it that way than This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 57 if you built it on your own and then had the whole equity partnership of a for an even smaller group of people. Generally the municipal partnerships are like small, one, two, three percentage points of a plant and so they get far more advantages than if they had gone out on their own. Or at least out on the open market and you just bought it on a spot basis. Vanderhoef/Like a mini muny. Wilson/Right. Vanderhoef/Okay I guess I have would like to explore some more of that or more information about that if it's possible. Wilson/Sure, I think right now we've talked with people who have, there' s nothing official on the 900 mega watt plant but we have many more people asking for parts of it than the 900 mega watts and so there's a lot of demand out there for partners with that including some municipal and electric cooperatives within the State of Iowa. Pfab/I have a question. Could you give me just a couple of examples of individual cities that have that own a part as a City? Smith/Can you do that? Wilson/Primarily those cities that participate with us are municipalities currently, the City of Eldridge I think is one current community that partners on our Louisa plant and has a one half of one percent or one small percent of small investment in the Louisa plant when it was originally built. Pfab/Do you have else giving two or three? Wilson/That's the only one that I'm aware of currently. Lehman/This chart in the back of this Energy Information Administrative Electric Sales revenue and I, I don't know what I'm looking at except that I notice that MidAmerican Energy services the largest number of customers significantly anymore than anyone and has the average revenue per kilowatt hour is one of the highest ones, why is that? I mean I don't understand that. Wilson/If I can get one of the books here, maybe I can look at what they've done. Kanner/What page are you on? Vanderhoef/Clear at the very back, last three pages. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 58 Lehman/Very back where Energy Information Administrative Electric Sales and Revenue, and it's got the average revenue per kilowatt hour and MidAmerican is at 9 per kilowatt hour and most of the rates are less than that and but MidAmerican also services about a half a million people, and the next closest one is 300,000, I mean I would assume the higher the number of customers the lower the cost just efficiencies would also tell me that it should he less, but I don't. Smith/Sure. Lehman/I mean, maybe I'm not, I don't know what I'm looking at. Smith/John can you explain this chart a little for us, you want to come on up here. Fuelling/I think Greg would be better off talking about (can't hear). Smith/Greg you want to. Shaefer/I just want to take a minute and make sure I know what I'm looking at here, I think these are going to be, I think this is information that' s provided to the Energy Information Administration which is a piece of the Federal Department of Energy and I'm not sure what, I'm trying to find the MidAmerican line that we're referring to here. Lehman/Well second page of the. Shaefer/Okay your near the bottom, 492,390 customers and so on across. Lehman/9 cents per kilowatt hour. Shaefer/Yea about 9 cents. I'm honestly not sure what would be in some of the other numbers, a lot of these are municipal utilities in Iowa and relatively small I'm just not sure how they might report, I'm really not in a good spot to tell you why some of these for the munies would be lower, I'm just not sure if the reporting mechanism is consistent. But let's just, ignoring that, just ignoring the fact that we're not sure what others may be reporting, there are several reasons why that could be. In some cases you may have a different mix of residential, commercial and industrial load within a city, if you happen to have a city particularly smaller city that happens to have a single large customer concentrated at one location, that can be a pretty cheap customer to serve if you don't need any lines Lehman/Well this is residential. Shaefer/Oh this is all residential, okay. Lehman/I mean I don't know, I just, it just appeared. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 59 Shaefer/That is one thing that can happen that drives down the rate for everybody if you happen to have a single large customer it can skew the average for the entire town as a whole. Some of it may be the way that revenues are collected between the different classes, in some cities there may be a conscious choice on the part of the city to keep residential rates down at the expense of industrial rates. Where as when we're filing with the Board we go in with a study that shows how much it costs to serve every individual class of customer so that is one potential driver, again you'd have to look almost city by city to know if those are the drivers. There are some other issues here when Terry showed you the slide that said we're the largest property tax payer within the city, well there won't be any property tax to be paid if you are a city so that's one thing to consider. If the utility it municipally owned that city isn't paying property tax, but likewise there' s no utility in town that is contributing to the city' s property tax revenues too and property tax would be made up by some other function within the city. Kanner/Does Ames, the lost property tax do they figure that into their rates to make up for that city (can't hear)? Shaefer/And I don't 'know how individual cities might do it, if they say well there' s no utility in town, I'd better raise my utility rates to make up for that or I'll have to raise my property tax rate to make up for the fact that there is no utility in town to help contribute to it, I honestly don't know how cities might do it or how the City of Ames in particular would do it. Kanner/I would assume most of them do kick in some contributions from the loss of municipal. Pfab/I have a question, on, how, you seem to have a quite a good handle on various numbers and funds and whatnot, could you tell me what the total yearly electric bill would be for everyone in the City of Iowa City? Shaefer/I'll let you handle that one. Smith/Okay you mean the total amount of revenue MidAmerican collects from all customers in the city? Kanner/Is that 140 mega watts for Iowa City. Smith/I could do some back of the envelope stuff, I want to make sure John that we don't have it, or Donna, I was thinking somebody had maybe run those numbers rather than guess at it if we've got it. Shaefer/It's in the area of $40 million dollars. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 60 Smith/About $40 million. Atkins/Irvin, we did that, we did a calculation on that a number of years ago when we were thinking about have a franchise fee calculated, I could dig through the files and probably come up with that for you. Pfab/And so it's, at one point it was about $40 million. Atkins/I couldn't tell you, I just remember it was a hefty number. Pfab/Is that something that you could dig up without much trouble or somebody could? Atkins/It will be some trouble but we'll find it for you. Pfab/Okay the other part, okay that's the electric, what about for gas costs? Smith/The $40 million, that was electric only was it John? (Can't hear) Smith/$26 million on gas, $40 million on electric. Pfab/So somewhere in the neighborhood of $66 million. Kanner/Is the margin the same for gas about 12 pement? Smith/The return that we're allowed by the Commission is in that range, probably a little low, when you say margin, it's not 12 percent of your total bill, it's 12 pement return on our investment and on the gas side that would be much less than 12 percent of your total bill with the profit to MidAmerican, the majority of that $26 million, the majority of the $26 million on the gas side would be the cost of the gas itself that MidAmerican receives from it's customers and immediately turns around and pays to the people who provide us the gas. Pfab/There' s not as much mark up on gas as. Smith/Yea on the, the gas itself, the actual molecules of gas in the pipe, MidAmerican doesn't make any money on that. Wilburn/This is just a comment, not necessarily directed towards you, I think Emie what your getting at is really kind of the fundamental question, when you were talking about why aren't the average (can't hear) the difference there, I mean we're sitting here, we are sitting here, what are the best deals in terms of service and cost for the citizens of Iowa City and you 'know everyone' s going to make their fish one way but you know, I mean I don't think there's any question that in the This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 61 short term you've got some huge costs and there' s not going to be savings short term, you know you mentioned property tax that wouldn't be coming in. You've got staff and emergency staff and all the, there's other costs that you would be giving up such as some of the contributions that you make to the Children~s Museum and Neighborhood Center' s and (can't hear) that type of thing, but what' s a hard term and what we need to wrestle with and try to find an answer is what's going to be the best long term, I mean I would perhaps want to guess that some of the municipally owned or some of type of cooperative type thing if they invested in this years ago that perhaps they are experiencing some of those, you know, so at what point do you? I mean it's difficult you know we had someone last time, we've got MidAmerican here, it's difficult how do you answer that question without having someone with your interest whether it's a study or something to say, to take all of this and kind of synthesize?? this together and say either yes short term your not going to experience any savings and yes long term you could or it's just a. Lehman/Well and I also think the response that this number, every one of these, these are residential rates, which means, there's certainly, and that' s a very good observation that some cities could make a real priority could be low residential rates and the commercial could pick that up, of course we have no way of knowing from looking at these numbers how those other utilities price their power to residential customers. Wilburn/And I don't know how we get that without (can't hear). Lehman/No I don't either and the other thing obviously is. Champion/Property tax. Lehman/Huge amount of property tax to the community. Kanner/I've got a couple questions. Lehman/Go ahead. Kanner/Under the state, the new state law I believe it is, if you don't like the franchise agreement that's proposed you can call an election. Do you have any sense that you might do that if you don't like what we're talking about for a four year agreement? Champion/Well we never talked about that Steven, (can't hear) talk about that. Kanner/Right, I'm saying if we do. Actually most of the people here Connie, I did see the forms did call for a four year term. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 62 Champion/Right did call for a shorter term, yea, we did, but I don't think as a Council we've discussed that so I don't think we should be. Kanner/No, no, right, that' s where we're in the sense of, that's where we're in the middle of discussing Connie and Fve heard a lot of people say four years or less so that' s what I'm throwing out there, under the state law you have the right to call an election, the City, so I'm asking ifthat's something your liking such as, your dislike perhaps came up such as that. Would you be prone to call an election? Smith/I don't think our position would be to call for an elections at this point, no, we would prefer to work this out with City staff and Council and find an agreement that's mutually acceptable to both parties and of course Council has the opportunity to call for an election if they so desire. Kanner/And. Pfab/I have a question, go ahead. Kanner/Let me just get another quick one in here. You mentioned for 675 or about 685,000 for energy efficiency programs in Iowa City in one year. Smith/I believe that was a collection of several years, or a seven year period. Kanner/And how much is that below above for the same as the state mandated for call for percentage of your growth or revenues do you put into energy efficiency and conservation programs, is that above it or below it or right at? Isn't there a state mandate that you have to put so much into it a pementage of your revenues? Smith/Yes. Kanner/Where is that? Is that above it? Are you saying your going beyond the state or I guess you can't go below, are you going beyond the state mandate or are you at the state mandate? Smith/There are state mandate levels that we much reinvest and then those investments that we make in energy efficiency are turned around and have been recovered in rate base and they're charged back to the local customers so we typically manage that at the mandated rate. It was $685,000 invested in the Iowa City community during a time period from 1997 through 2001. Kanner/And when did the state mandate go into effect? Did you do anything before the state mandates on energy efficiency (can't hear)? Smith/Yes we did, I think we were in the neighborhood of, help me out here guys, one percent of our total annual sales perhaps and I think that went to somewhere in the This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 63 neighborhood of two percent as a mandated level. We've always had programs in place but depending on the viability of the programs on an annual basis the annual investment would fluctuate and that investment was regulated a few years back and I don't recall the year which that regulation took place. John do you recall? woman/1990. Smith/1990, thank you, 1990. Kanner/And so it's been two percent since 1990, you've been meeting that and not going beyond it and before that there was no mandate and you did an average of about one percent towards energy efficiency conservation in the Iowa City area. Smith/John do you have any clue on those numbers or, I don't think we can substantiate those numbers here tonight for you of what we did prior to 1990, we did have programs prior to 1990, they were not to the amount that was regulated at 1990 though. Kanner/If you could get me a figure on what percentage that was sometime I'd appreciate it. Smith/We can try sure. Pfab/We've been going for about an hour, what' s our format? Lehman/Well as long as he's interested in answering questions, I think we should be winding up, but if there are other questions, certainly you could ask. Pfab/Fve got a lot of them that's all right, I think our agreement was an hour that' s the only reason I asked. Smith/Well I think the key issues before the Council are the franchise agreement in itself, what' s in the best term of the residents of Iowa City being a resident of Iowa City I have a definite interest in that as well. There's a lot of factors to be considered, MidAmerican is very interested in working with the City to help come up with those issues. The concept of forming a municipality is not one that has been successfully implemented in any recent period of time across the State of Iowa, it's been done before, many years ago, the investment would be substantial no doubt about it, the investment just to study the issue would be substantial so we're not looking to incur those costs for the City and we're anxious to work with you to avoid those costs in any way we can. Lehman/Thank you Terry. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 64 Smith/Thank you Ernie. Vanderhoef/Yes thank you. Kanner/Thank you Terry. How many folks came down with you? Can you raise your hands if your with MidAmerican. Lehman/Nobody will shoot at you, you've got half the stockholders here. Smith/Several of them are here are Iowa City residents so they don't have far to travel but I figured it was better to come prepared. Lehman/Okay folks, anybody have anything for Council Time? Champion/I just want to bring up Ross was saying that there are so many implications to how they handle this utility situation. Did we talk about doing a study before? Lehman/No we have, we will have someone from the Citizen's group who is interested in us looking more deeply into munies will be here and make a presentation to us perhaps. Vanderhoef/Two weeks. Atkins/Next meeting, two weeks. Lehman/Two weeks from tonight, and so we will have had heard from them and also from MidAmerican, we already heard from a consultant five or six weeks ago. Champion/Right. Lehman/And after the next work session that we hear about then I think we can sit down kind of pick each others brains and decide what direction we want to go from there, but we do have another presentation that will probably be about the period of time two weeks from tonight. Any other council time. Council Time Kanner/Two things, one for Steve and for folks here if you know the answer. I had someone call me about concern about cutoff for water, city water, what' s our procedure, and how much time do we give before we cut off water if they're late with their bills? Atkins/I could give it to you tomorrow, but I suspect it's at least 30, there' s a whole schedule of how we go, I'll get that for you tomorrow. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 65 Kanner/I'd appreciate that. Another thing I think we all got this in the mail, for a transportation conference, it looked interesting to me, I was interested in going, I think our procedure is we're suppose to bring it to the Mayor, is that correct Marian? Bring it to the Mayor for the okay, I'd like to stay overnight and. Lehman/Where is it? Kanner/It's on the west side of Iowa, west of Des Moines, and it looked pretty interesting, different transportation experts, plus some people talking about security measures and long range transportation plans and I'll pass it around if anyone else wants to see it again. If it were Maui we'd have to think about it, but I don't have any problem. Vanderhoef/No. Lehman/Go. Karmer/It would be like about $100 staying over night or something. Lehman/That' s fine. Vanderhoef/I won't be going, I'd like to attend also but I'll be at Nationals. Lehman/Now that we can't pay for. Okay other Council time. Champion/I have one thing I wanted to bring up and it's a concern that I think we really have got to address is the First Avenue, I know we're going to put a gate across is because people are certainly moving the barriers now but my concern is because we're having the trails are opened, the sidewalks are open, I don't know how we can protect that road from being driven on, I'm concerned about kids going up there at night, driving around on the. Lehman/Steve' s letter indicated I think a chain link fence (can't hear). Atkins/Yea we're going to put a chain link fence. Letunan/So you can't get through. Atkins/If they want to get through they'll find a way through Ernie I don't think there's any doubt about that. Champion/(Can't hear) drive up the sidewalk and they'll get on the road and they'll have a perfect raceway, I thought about it myself, the kids were in my car. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001. November 26, 2001 Special Work Session Page 66 Vanderhoef/I live closer to it than you do, Connie, just you and I. Champion/I mean I'm. Pfab/She wants a key to the gate. Champion/I mean I want to keep the gate, I'm serious I think we have to watch this carefully. Atkins/If we experience that I think the thing that I would probably suggest is we'll put barricades in the middle of the road just to simply make it a real pain in the neck for anybody wanting to do it. O'Donnell/Let's hope we don't get to that. Atkins/Yea I just hope we don't get to that Connie, we thought the chain link, we thought leaving the sidewalk open encourages people to walk. Champion/(Can't hear). Atkins/But if someone wants to get around it they'll get around it. Lehman/Well we'll just keep an eye on it. Atkins/We will. Lehman/And deal with it we have problems. Atkins/Yea it's too far from where I. Lehman/So we better go race tonight. Okay anybody else have anything before we go to the races. All fight folks, thank you, tomorrow night, 6:30 tomorrow night, special meeting. Adjoumed 9: 10 PM. This represents only a reasonable accurate transcription of the Iowa City Council Meeting of November 26, 2001.