HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002-01-24 Transcription January 24, 2002 Special Budget Work Session Page 1
January 24, 2002 Special Budget Work Session 1:30 PM
Council: Lehman, Champion, O'Donnell, Vanderhoef, Wilburn, Pfab, Kanner
Staff: Atkins, Helling, Karr, O'Malley, Mansfield, Herring, Franklin, Schmadeke,
Trueblood, Fosse, Davidson
TAPES: 02-10 SiDE TWO; 02-12 BOTH SIDES; 02-13, SIDE ONE
Steve Atkins/First of all in behalf of everyone we want to thank Marian for a (can't hear)
few chocolate cookies.
Lehman/Yes.
All talking.
Vanderhoef/We'll keep her.
Atkins/Okay we left off at our last meeting finishing reviewing 03, we have 04, 05 and
06 to review in capital projects. I don't know of any in there that leap out at me
with respect to anything that's particularly surprising, staff is available again for
your questions.
Road Use Tax
Vanderhoef/Where are we on use of our enhancement moneys out of road use? Are we
all spent out?
Jeff Davidson/You've got two different things there Dee, enhancement funds which are
part of the you know STP funds that comes through JCCOG and the road use tax
goes directly to the cities so two different answers to that question.
Vanderhoef/And the use of road use tax money for enhancement projects would be a
better way of putting it.
Davidson/Okay I guess you can use road use tax for some capital expenses related to
roads and trails and Kevin Doyle is in Ames right now I was going to go but
because of this meeting I had him go and he's going to get a current status on the
road use fund and we'll let Kevin and Steve know, we get quarterly updates from
the guy who manages it from the state but as you heard Steve say last time it's
really flat right now and not expected to go up for several years based on the
number of miles people are driving and the fact that vehicles are a lot more fuel
efficient and they don't use as much gas so we're looking at that. It was going up
6 to 8 percent a year there for a while and that's stopped and it's really flattened
up so what Steve's getting is reduced as well. With respect to enhancements if
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your interested in that as you heard us say yesterday at JCCOG, we have one year
right now for FY04 that is unprograInmed it is about $113,000 which can be used
by any of the entities and JCCOG, 100 pement could go to Iowa City, 100 percent
of it could go to University Heights depending on what the Board decided to do.
Vanderhoef/Not likely.
Davidson/Not likely, anyway we've got that to be portioned by JCCOG at some point
probably in this next year.
Vanderhoef/Maybe a better question then is the ending balance on our road use tax is at
$886,000.
Atkins/What is it the next year? I don't have it in front of me, the jump it should go up.
Vanderhoef/And 04 it jumps up and I wondered if any of that was sort of programmed
into.
Atkins/No it is not, remember when I mentioned earlier and we were talking about it, we
have about let's say $800,000 of that reserve position could be made available for
projects.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Atkins/And the result was when we got our preliminary numbers on road use tax we
immediately went to look at our capital projects and candidly I think I reduced
them to severely, and that, when we're all done balancing that piece that's the
number that showed up that way. And if you also remember I said Rick advised
you that we did cut back on our biennial asphalt overlay and one of the early
priorities we would like to think is that we could at least get it back to where we
were. Is that?
Fosse/Concrete maintenance too.
Atkins/Yea concrete maintenance too.
Lehman/Just as an aside the mild winter so far if that continues is that going to result in a
significant savings when it comes to street maintenance?
Schmadeke/Savings in overtime salaries probably but we have a commitment to buy salt
and.
Lehman/No, no, I'm talking about the, I know the salt and the overtime for plowing
roads is significant but what seems to me to be almost equally significant is the
amount of potholes that that salt creates and this year we really ought to be,
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although these folks are working anyway whether they're filling potholes or not
but it would seem to me.
Atkins/Ernie remember street potholes are freeze and thaw, not so much salt, if it's
freezing and thawing if you get warm weather, the moisture gets under the thing
then a quick freeze (can't hear).
Lehman/I'm well aware of that, which is why I brought it up, we haven't had the rain and
snow and whatever and the streets are remarkably good, a year ago at this time we
had holes all over.
Atkins/Unless you've jinxed us which you may have just done, we would hopefully go
into the spring time with less exposure with respect to the street actual repairs.
Champion/The University assured us yesterday that they have guaranteed this weather
for the rest of the year.
Atkins/Oh good.
Kanner/Dave Ricketts, yea.
Atkins/Yea Dave Ricketts oh well, good enough right.
Lehman/Sorry I brought it up, go ahead.
FY04 Projects
Atkins/Okay 04 projects (can't hear).
Wilbum/I'm going to ask Karin some questions about art, I know Dee had burned up the
idea of about cutting Public Art or trying to, might look at private match with the
public dollars for art. Is there a, you brought up the idea about the placquerds
being extended, the literary art, Literary Walk stuff. Are there any other ideas
from the Art Committee that are in the hopper just so I can be thinking about that?
Karin Franklin/There's the neighborhood public art program that the group wants to
initiate which would be working with three pilot neighborhoods, it's a project that
we've done a budget for that's about $38,000 and tried to get money from the
state Department of Cultural Affairs but were not successful at least on that go
around, it doesn't mean we wouldn't apply again. That would bring art into three
neighborhoods and then the idea is that those three neighborhoods work with three
other neighborhoods to go through the same sort of process and so it would be a
continuing sort of program. But for fiscal year 03 we would be looking at
$38,000 for that. There will be a proposal brought by the, I understand there will
be a proposal brought by the Lions Club for assistance with a statue for Irving
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Weber that they would like to have some public art funds put toward which I think
are about $15,000 to $18,000, I'm not positive on that amount because we haven't
seen the proposal yet. We have the commitment to the near Southside
Transportation Center in which we have a contract with an artist, our share of that
$8,000, it's an 80/20 on that whole thing. That's all ! can think of at the moment.
Wilburn/Okay I'll have to ask for a little history lesson here and I apologize for this.
When the public art funds and committee first came about was the idea for art in
the community or was there a focus on downtown at the time?
Franklin/I think it was, the idea for it was generally throughout the community, the focus
on the downtown initially was a consequence of trying to tie it in with the
streetscape project. It also if you remember that this was a proposal that was
brought to the City Council by the Chamber of Commerce Arts Business
Committee or whatever they were called. And so one of the concepts here was
that public art does something, says something about the community that is a
stimulus to the vitality of the community and the economic development all that
kind of thing. Whether they had the notion that that was going to be focusing
downtown or not I can't say but I think that it was a more general approach that
was envisioned that this was going to be public art throughout the community but
the focus on the downtown initially was because of our streetscape projects.
Wilburn/Okay, I'm wondering Dee in terms of your idea, I mean it seems that, I enjoy
the art, the public art that's happened as a result of this and I like the idea and
Steven brought up the concern about trying to (can't hear) available for the
neighborhood art type thing, I'm wondering about, but I certainly recognize the
hope to try to get some public dollars to match with that about possibly alternating
years, under one year, not budget the next and then alternate, kind of like, I mean
for different reasons, but kind of like to go with the curb ramps, at least in terms
with this budget that, is that $200,000 it would take off of or free up for general
funds and then we would still have the possibility of the neighborhood art or some
other concepts, Lions or something that would come out but the affect of
alternating years might get the word out with these projects our idea would be we
should be looking for some private dollars too, any reaction to that from (can't
hear).
Vanderhoef/Are you saying then every other year $200,000?
Wilburn/No, $100,000.
Vanderhoef/ Your talking about $100,000, so that would be a change in Council policy
because the policy was.
Wilbum/Right.
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Vanderhoef/Brought in at a minimum of $100,000 rather than under which there were
some support at that time to say maximum of and allowing some flexibility
knowing that theme would be some budget things.
Wilburn/I mean it keeps, it keeps it a line item and acknowledges the work and concern
that went into it but at the same time it would it will reduce the amount available
over the course of time, it's still hope in trying.
Vanderhoef/I would entertain some kind of policy change that might be an every other
year and do it in a fashion that there would be matched dollars.
Champion/I wouldn't be, I agree with you Ross that we probably need to cut it, I don't
know I would rather see it be a yearly line like $50,000 a year.
Lehman/Yea.
O'Donnell/Right.
Champion/I'm willing to cut it but I don't agree with Dee about eliminating it because
you know what it will never get put back in, it's not like a person where it's easy
to decide to rehire this fireman or this policeman but to get that public art money
back in might never happen and I think it's just a real, all the reasons that Karin
stated that the original committee wanted it so I too am willing to cut the budget
but I'd like to see it still be a yearly line item, and so if you object it could be just
$50,000 a year instead of a $100,000 but to keep it flowing and keep it moving,
I'm not willing to get rid of it at all because I don't think it will ever come back.
O'Donnell/I think that's a very good idea.
Lehman/Well and you could also.
Vanderhoef/Why don't you entertain a policy though that private dollars?
Champion/No, no.
Vanderhoef/Would of certain percent would have to be in private dollars.
Champion/No, no, I wouldn't, I think it would be nice to get private money but I
wouldn't want the money contingent on that because that may also stop it, there's
so many people asking for money now, Social Services are going to have terrible
trouble, the Library's having trouble raising their money, the economy is not that
wonderful and I don't think we should be competing for those dollars.
Pfab/I have a question, how much money has gone out, what is it to the neighborhoods,
is that the term you use? In other words instead of downtown into other areas.
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Franklin/Nothing has gone to the neighborhoods yet. All of the money that has been
spent in the Public Art Program to date has been in work downtown.
Pfab/I think it's time that the neighborhoods get a part of this pie.
Champion/They're going to get it.
Lehman/Well now the question.
Pfab/No I'm serious, this I, what I'm hearing here I totally oppose.
Lehman/Well the question isn't where it's going to go, the question is how much money,
that's what we're talking about.
Pfab/Cutting that out, after it went downtown and the neighborhoods got nothing. And
now that we got it forget it.
Lehman/Are you saying you'd want to keep it at a $100,0007
Pfab/I'm cutting to the quick here pretty quick.
Lehman/No your saying you want to keep the funding at $100,0007
Pfab/Yes.
Lehman/Okay we have, let's finish the discussion on Public Art and then let's do only
those items that appear in these other years and then we're going to go back and
discuss.
Atkins/What I intended is go through all the years so you understand it
comprehensively, then we can start dealing with your various positions on various
projects. I think you need to hear it all at once and that's why the staff is here and
then you can make up your minds. Is there anything else on 04?
Mormon Trek/Highway 1 - Highway 1/Highway 921
Kanner/Well yea I think more important than cutting back on art which I think is the only
thing is going to keep us alive is I was thinking we need to increase that $100,000
at the minimum, we need to keep that at $100,000 and ask for private donations.
I think it's ludicrist to cut back especially when we're starting programs going on
for neighborhoods that's exactly what we want in terms of alternative
programming for our communities so that in the long we have less crime and we
have better neighborhoods and also in terms of economic development, we need
to put more of our economic development money into it. In that regards I think
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we need to look at Mormon Trek/Highway 1, there's a heck of a lot of money
going into that GO debt and I think that's where we need to cut back, we've got
Mormon Trek, Highway 1, Highway 921 which has got $2.6 million in 03, $2
million in 04, and $2.933 million in 05, tremendous amounts of money and who's
going to benefit? Basically those developers as we start to go down them that
have bought property down there that are already gearing up at where Gilbert and
the proposed extension and the environmental consequences there are somewhat
dubious.
Lehman/I don't think any of this includes the bridge over the river does it Steve?
Atkins/No.
Kanner/No but that's where it's leading towards, that's the whole process and I think.
Davidson/This segment is between Highway 921 is Riverside Drive.
Lehman/Right, right.
Kanner/And it's eventually that's the whole thought of continuing it over there and I
think at this time of a recession possible depression in some areas we need to
consider cutting back on this area. Is this where we're putting so called
"economic development money" into this stretch?
Atkins/Yes.
Karmer/$700,000.
Atkins/That's in the 03 piece or the 04.
Davidson/Is that your match for the STP?
Atkins/Yea, yea, that's correct Steve.
Vanderhoef/Well I'm going to speak to that, you made a real blank statement them that I
can't agree with that the only people that will benefit from this are the developers
down there. I think there's a lot of benefits to this particular project that built our
tax base number one but as we have looked at our total transportation system
within Iowa City and the east/west connections and where the traffic flows we
have real concerns, I have real concerns, I'll put it that way for the east/west
movement of people from the east side to the west side and yes the bridge is not
into this piece right now however we still have an awful lot of people from the
south that would stay off the Benton Street area and stay out of the Melrose
section if they have that opportunity to go further south and only have to connect
for a section on Highway 6 until the bridge is put in there but to stimulate
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economic development and build our tax base we still have to have properties
where people want to develop in the way of commercial and light industrial.
Kanner/Dee let me answer a couple of those points you brought up. I think the traffic
one we were told that the traffic, that we don't see substantial traffic increase on
Highway 1/Highway 6 there. That was as I recall the projections we got before.
And two with our Economic Development Committee we were approached by
ICAD for imaging, or what's the term that Joe used.
Atkins/Oh "branding".
Franklin/Branding.
Karmer/Branding, we're looking at branding Iowa City and I think one thing we need to
look at and perhaps come to the realization is that maybe downtown and Iowa
City besides the Hospital which maybe is number one as Emie has said, what
most people know us for but maybe they should know it's also for an entertaining
kind of capital and we need to build on that, we need to build not just
entertainment for yonng college students but for older adults too that Iowa City it
could be a positive thing and so maybe that's where we need to put our economic
dollars, development dollars, and art is a big part of that. I can see people coming
to Iowa City for our art work, already it's known as the artistic place, this is where
the writers are, this is where the painters are, this is one of the top small
communities for art. I have a friend who came here to Iowa City because of that
and I think that's where a lot of our future should lie and that's where we should
be putting our economic development money in those kind of areas and I think it
will benefit more people actually than the potential development scheme along
this road that we're building.
Pfab/Okay Dee I'd like to ask you, you mentioned the traffic coming from the south, I
couldn't follow what you were, what kind of traffic you.
Vanderhoeff The Highway 1 folk that presently goes up maybe even as far as Benton but
at least to the Highway 1 and if they're trying to get to east side and they want to
stay off of Highway 1 this is an east/west connector that is going to have to
happen and when we see what is our growth area for the city on the south side
then I think this road is going to be terribly important to get a connection through
there.
Pfab/Pardon me for being dense here but okay the traffic coming from where to where?
Vanderhoef/Off of 218 south.
Pfab/Yes.
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Vanderhoef/And off of Highway 1 south if they're trying to go east.
Pfab/To go east.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Pfab/Okay.
Atkins/Do you want us to map this for you? We have a map.
Pfab/No that's fine, when you said Benton I was trying to figure out.
Vanderhoef/Well some people go up there if they.
Pfab/Why don't they go Highway 6, why don't they use Highway 6?
Vanderhoef/Because they want to stay off of Riverside, if they're going northeast it's one
thing, if they're trying to just go east it's another thing.
Pfab/What kind ora destination are you?
Vanderhoef/To east Iowa City, any of the, all right BDI, Industrial Park, when the
Avenue of the Saint is completed which it is getting very close to be completed,
okay where we will have the Mormon Trek connection across that's going to be
the way to get to the BDI.
Pfab/The Mormon Trek, okay, I was thinking the Mormon Trek up in Coralville, okay,
that area, okay your saying.
Vanderhoef/No, no, Mormon Trek extension.
Lehman/South side of the airport.
Vanderhoef/The Dane Road replacement.
Pfab/How much traffic now is that's going from there to the BDI whatever you call it,
how much of that is on Highway 6 now? I don't see that much traffic there that's
what I'm wondering.
Vanderhoef/Truck traffic, oh yea.
Lehman/One of the biggest complaints I get is the traffic on Highway 6, people on
Kirkwood, the people on Highland, they're all very unhappy with the congestion
that's there because Highway 6 and Jeff correct me if I'm wrong, carries an
incredible amount of traffic, it carries probably the maximum traffic it can and
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you can't bypass, this although it probably is not a belt line certainly would
alleviate eventually some of that traffic that presently has to use Highway 6 and
Highway 1 from the intersection of 218 east. This and this doesn't include the
bridge but it's going to have to be built sooner or later across the river all the way
over to Highway 6 east of town.
Vanderhoef/We've got a school that is growing in east Iowa City, they're going to be
using the 380 connection probably more from the south than the north but there
will be some even from the Coralville area who are going to be taking classes over
at Kirkwood and they either have to go all the way through town or they're going
to get on the Avenue of the Saints and come across the south part of Iowa City to
get to school.
Pfab/Okay, give me in round numbers what kind of truck traffic are you talking in a day
or a week? Number of units that.
Vanderhoef/I have no idea.
Lehman/2,302, now what does that mean to you?
Pfab/That's a week, no I'm just trying to say, when I'm on Highway 6 1 don't see that
kind of traffic and that's why I'm opposed to.
Lehman/Well Jefftell us the level of traffic on Highway 6.
Davidson/Really in general because all we have are real general terms, they're depending
on the link of Highway 1 and Highway 6 that your talking about the segment,
there's between 20,000 and 30,000 vehicles a day the highest volume stretch is
between Gilbert Street and Riverside Drive, that's slightly over 30,000 which is
really practically the capacity for a 4-lane street with turn lanes. Now of that
20,000 to 30,000 vehicles a day we estimate that somewhere between 3 percent
and 8 percent of that is truck traffic.
Pfab/But what we're doing isn't going to help that until we get the bridge across the
river.
Davidson/The bridge is a real key component because right now everything south of
Highway 6 all the way down to Hills because that's the next river crossing has to
come up to Highway 6 and cross the river to get east and west across that bridge,
so the bridge eventually is a very key component to alleviate the kinds of things
that Dee is talking about.
Pfab/But without the bridge you aren't going to alleviate it.
Vanderhoef/But you won't build the bridge until you have the road put in.
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Pfab/Well just a second we talk about making projects bigger like we did out on First
Avenue and Scott Boulevard why don't we when we get ready to build a bridge
then build a road?
Davidson/Well typically Irvin when you have a large arterial and a good example of this
would be Scott Boulevard, Scott Boulevard was put together in pieces over a 20
year period, we're getting ready to do the final piece now and so the finally the
two to three mile segment all hooks up but it's too expensive to do it all at once,
you have to do in pieces and that's why you have an arterial street plan so that
when you get done all the pieces hook up into one system.
Pfab/How long are we going to be without the bridge 10 years?
Davidson/That's ultimately up to the seven of you.
Pfab/We don't have a solution to the Gilbert from Highway 1 or Riverside Drive to
Gilbert without the bridge, we have no solution, in fact we create a bigger
problem.
Davidson/Well what you as a City Council Irvin have decided is that the most important
segment right now is between 921 and Highway ! because that's what you've
decided to spend money on first.
Pfab/That's what we had, we thought we had more money and something has to go and
I'm looking at this as the biggest place to save, that's what my point is.
Lehman/Let me suggest one other factor, obviously this discussion is going to go
nowhere on the traffic, there is a significant number of amount of property, and I
don't know the number the acres Steve you could perhaps tell us but the area that
will be opened up for commercial and industrial development by that road on the
south side of the airport is in excess of 200 acres as I recall.
Atkins/200 was comfortable with 200.
Lehman/That is a tremendous asset for the community, that is property that can not be
developed without access and until a road goes in there's no chance of that
property being built or industrial or commercial development that we obviously
taxed create jobs or whatever. I am not in favor of eliminating this project if we
need to rearrange the time frame which I don't think we're going to do, this
Council may not do, it may happen year next year or the year after or depending
on how funding sources become available but I'm not, personally I think it would
be poor planning for us not to get started on this project and at least plan for the
completion of it to Riverside Drive.
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Atkins/Well your also slipping back and debating, do you want to hear the rest of the
projects and then you can argue about it?
Lehman/No, no.
Champion/We can't seem to get that done can we?
Lehman/Well we need to get through these years and then we'll go back.
O'Donnell/The fire apparatus here Steve.
Atkins/Yes, what about it?
O'Donnell/Exactly what is that? What are you talking about?
Atkins/That's a pumper replacement, yea, we have a schedule Mike and that's when it's
due to be replaced.
O'Donnell/Excuse me, I think we could move that out Steve a couple years.
Atkins/Oh I take that back that not the pumper, that is the aerial.
Lehman/Ladder truck.
Atkins/Yea, it's 20 years old and it's due to be replaced, or will be due to be replaced by
that time.
O'Dormell/But (can't hear) what we've done, I don't know if that can be moved out or
not but we should look at it.
Atkins/Probably, well as long as you don't move them too far, remember we changed the
schedule because of a whole variety of factors, Kevin was it 15 or 14 year on fire
apparatus? We went from 20 1 think.
Kevin O'Malley/20 down to 14.
Atkins/20 down to 14 this one will be due for replacement and it will be 20 years old.
Now Mike can another year out of it, the answer is yes. Now remember one of the
reasons I say that and am very comfortable with that is we have mutual aid
agreements with other departments that provide in case something should happen
we can get that covered fairly quickly. The important thing here that this is just a
huge ticket item, I mean it's more than doubled in price.
O'Donnell/Put that down and talk about it.
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Atkins/Yea.
Vanderhoef/Is there ever any conversation with other communities to help buy large
equipment knowing that there is mutual aid?
Atkins/We do that on a pretty regular basis with Coralville, we exchange bid documents,
I'm convinced that Andy and the new Chief there Terry Sesker particularly from a
back up standpoint, reserve apparatus, they do that on a regular basis. We must
have 11 or 12 fire districts though in the county and I do know that we have that
Emergency Board, I can't remember the official name of it that those folks
assemble periodically, but we do do that. Most often Dee I have to be candid with
you, most of the fire districts they're very protective of their, and they want their
own.
Vanderhoef/I understand that but I also recognize that these high ticket items are being
paid for by the City of Iowa City taxpayers.
Atkins/Yep.
Vanderhoef/And the benefits that are out there for mutual aid it would seem to me that
we ought to be talking to the fire districts and saying will you put a certain
percentage of your dollars into equipment replacement not necessarily just for
Iowa City but for the professional fire departments that have these high ticket
items.
O'Donnell/I think that's exactly why we have (can't hear).
Kanner/But we actually get more benefit from the mutual aid.
Champion/Yea we do.
Atkins/I really do believe that.
Kanner/But it's still in principle, I think the idea of, we've been talking about
regionalizing the fire more, we do a lot of cooperation but still I think we need to
put into high gear a study to look to see what benefits there would be from
mgionalizing the fire services.
Davidson/I've been helping the fire department with some strategic planning and that's
something that when you see the strategic plan which will probably be in the next
six to eight months that's an element that you will need to make some decision
making is a notion of regional fire (can't hear).
Lehman/Good.
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Kanner/The hard part I guess, one of the big parts is mixing the volunteer with the
professional.
Davidson/Yea but there's a way to do that, it is done in other places and you can do it.
Vanderhoef/Okay I will support the idea of looking at the fire truck being moved out a
year and reevaluated one year from now.
Atkins/The red had nothing to do with, (can't hear).
Lehman/All right (can't hear).
Champion/You know it's tough, I know we're getting totally, we're not doing the stuff
the way you want us to do it Steven.
Atkins/That's right, your not. We're just kind of moving along.
Champion/As long as we're talking about fire, I'm really concerned about the new fire
station not being built and I know we can't build it although I certainly want the
land purchased but I'm also concerned about being able to staff that and I'm
looking at you to say I want you to look at other positions in the city govermnent
that could be replaced with a firefighter. I mean I think it's important that we
deal with community safety and, I mean the most important thing we do is police,
fire and water I mean those are the three biggies, and I feel real bad that one of the
things of putting First Avenue through was for this fire station and the response
time to that end of time and now we're going to put Scott Boulevard which is
going to create a lot more development out there and now we're shelving this fire
station because we don't have money to staff it, and I know we don't have the
money to staff it.
Lehman/I don't think we're shelving it Connie, the road won't be done until the end of
next year at the earliest and I think when we get back after we get through 05 and
06 we're going to address that, we may move it a year or so because we can't
build it anyway until the road's done, my suspicion is that fire station will come
on line probably as soon as it's practical to do it.
O'Donnell/What's the expected completion date of Scott?
Atkins/We do not have the money to staff the station, that's the bottom line.
Champion/Staff it, that's the problem, the problem is staff.
Atkins/Well it's on our list, we'll get big. Excuse me.
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Pfab/One more question on the tim truck, how many aerials or ladders are there around,
Coralville has theirs?
Atkins/Coralville has one, we have one.
Lehman/Two.
Pfab/Okay and is, Coralville's a lot newer because it was purchased.
Atkins/No theirs is just about the same, it was about the same time.
Lehman/Same as ours.
Atkins/Because what we did Irvin was we spec'd, gave them the our specs, they spec'd
the same thing and so we have, quite frankly they're very similar pieces of
equipment, we can interchange for example ours was to go down, it was in an
accident or something such as that. In fact ours was, you remember the Lone Tree
oh gosh 8-10 years ago, ours was severely damaged in the fire and we had to take
it off line and what we did was we brought Coralville's aerial into our station, we
would respond to calls for them with that equipment so that's, no we have a very
good relationship with them in that.
Champion/We do.
Pfab/Okay so that ladder is about 20 years old.
Atkins/Yep about 20, it will be 20, it will be 20 in 05 ifI recall, I think we bought that in
1986.
Champion/And how do people feel about traffic calming?
Lehman/Well I think that's an issue we need to address.
Atkins/Put it on the list.
Lehman/Go ahead and put it on there, but it basically applies to all of the years of the
budget so I think we should address it as an issue.
O'Donnell/Let's put it in (can't hear).
Kanner/I've got a question, although also for traffic calming we could put the old fire
truck sort of in the middle of the streets then.
Pfab/Drive around.
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Kanner/That would slow people down.
Champiot~/That would be traffic calming. Go like Mike said make all the streets brick.
Kanner/Jeff on traffic signal projects, we budget $70,000 a year.
Davidson/Right.
Kanner/How much does one traffic signal cost?
Davidson/The $70,000 is suppose to represent approximately one intersection. Now
what can influence that is that as you know you just approved a U-Step Grant here
the other night at Council meeting, occasionally we can get state funds to pay part
of that so you might spread that over two or three intersections but if we have to
pay for 100 percent of an intersection that's what that $70,000 is for.
Atkins/And I believe that's all road use tax we use for that.
Lehman/But isn't that also a situation in new construction where we know or where
there's a development that's going to create a great deal of traffic, don't we
frequently require that the developer or whatever pay for that so this is.
Davidson/If this is a large scale development Emie like Wal-Mart or something like that
yes, but that actually is not all that common that that appears. Typically the
development starts and it's several years until the traffic signal is warranted at
which point the city has to.
Lehman/Well like Court and Gilbert is a situation that if that has to be done that's strictly
City.
Davidson/That would be 100 percent City yea.
Kanner/And so it looks like we have a few potential projects, wasn't there talk about
Highway 6 in front of the shopping center. I don't know who was going to pick
up the cost there.
Davidson/There was some discussion about that, I don't think we've heard anything,
Southgate.
Atkins/Oh yes, where K-Mart is?
Davidson/Yes.
Kanner/ Yes. That was going to be picked up by Southgate if it was going to be done.
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Atkins/ Overwhelmingly the cost.
Pfab/At the time we told them that was fine but we weren't going to put the money in.
Franklin/I don't think, was that signalization?
Atkins/ Yes.
Letunan/I think it was.
Vanderhoef/Yes, a new curb cut.
(All talking)
Davidson/We've actually in Iowa City done, well we've done three signal warrant
studies this year and we have two more to complete over the winter and so far the
first three we've done have not been warranted fortunately, I think your going to
be hearing from some of the folks out by Walden Square that weren't particularly
happy with the conclusion that we came to but that is the conclusion that we came
to there. We have two more to go so we may very well this year end up with one
that is warranted, the one we're doing currently is Northgate and Highway 1 and
some of you have probably gotten comments on that intersection.
Vanderhoef/And then are we not on line to do one at Court and First?
Davidson/Yea, Court and First that one's for sure.
Lehman/That wouldn't be listed as a traffic signal in the CIP that would be listed as
street improvement.
Davidson/Right, right, that one's budgeted separately Dee because we know we're going
ahead with that one.
Champion/And what are, yea, right, never mind, I just thought Terry down here, I
thought about the.
Lehman/We're not minding.
Vanderhoef/Well and we have completed the study on the one Scott and Heinz Road in
that?
Davidson/No, that one's for next year as well.
Vanderhoef/The Highway 6.
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Kanner/And then we got a letter about Foster Road which is kind of dangerous there.
Davidson/Yea now that's a location that we know is warranted already.
Atkins/And that's (can't hear).
Davidson/And it's a, it involves so much.
Lehman/The alignment.
Davidson/Yea realignment that, I believe there's a $1 million dollar project in your CIP
that includes that signal.
Atkins/If you finish 04 because 05 if you move to that that's where that comes up.
Kanner/Well I just wanted to ask though do you think we have enough money in there?
This is a big safety issue I think for adequate traffic lights and do you think this
will cover our needs?
Atkins/One of the reasons, okay one of the reasons we try to maintain a reasonably
healthy reserve in the road use tax is to do just that, just in case, we've, it's been
traditionally, we show one a year because that's pretty much been our practice, but
we try to maintain a reasonably healthy reserve in road use so if one were to come
up you could move quickly and authorize it and that's where the money is coming
from.
Davidson/I think it's an appropriate annual amount to have in there Steven.
Atkins/But that doesn't preclude you Steven from getting something done further on a
signal (can't hear).
Davidson/And it certainly doesn't preclude that we might come to you and have two in
one year it could possibly happen.
Vanderhoef/I'd like to put on the list to talk about it at least, this annual $50,000 going
into the Civic Center.
Atkins/I'm sorry the Civic Center improvements.
Vanderhoeff Yes.
O'Donnell/And as long as we're doing that I'd like to see open land space acquisition,
parkland development.
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Champion/Well I think we should add as long as we have Terry here too is that
Waterworks Park.
Lehman/But that will come up on 03 when we get back to it.
Champion/Oh when we go back.
Atkins/Well I'll put it down just to make sure, Waterworks.
Pfab/When did you do the traffic survey for (can't hear).
(All talking)
Davidson/For Mormon Trek and Walden. We did that this fall, we collected the data in
the spring before the road was closed. We deliberately collected the data early so
we'd have good data to work with.
Pfab/With that new road, I would say.
Davidson/I think Irvin there's, it's inevitable we're going to have one there, it's a matter
of when, if it's this year or three years from now.
Pfab/My guess is your going to see a lot greater traffic there.
Davidson/Yea I agree and that's why I think every year or two we need to update that and
keep track of that.
2005 Improvements
Atkins/Are you ready?
Lehman/Yes.
Vanderhoef/05. I would like somebody to give me some more information on what's
driving this whole idea of the Camp Cardinal road now?
O'Donnell/Dee I'm having trouble hearing you.
Atkins/We want to talk about that.
Vanderhoef/Good.
Lehman/Put it on there.
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Atkins/Well you need to get a little brief explanation, who wants to do it? Me.
Franklin/I can do it. It has to.
]?fab/Set it up on the.
Atkins/Yea I will, just a second, let me jot it down.
Franklin/What this is about is looking at a connection between Highway 6 in Coralville
and Melrose Avenue via the existing alignment of Camp Cardinal for a bit,
essentially the creek where it already is and then bringing it a little bit farther to
the west.
Vanderhoef/West.
Atkins/You want to draw it on there, why don't you draw it on there.
Lehman/Yea it goes west towards Clear Creek.
Vanderhoef/How does this differ from what was discussed several years ago when we
were looking at the 965?
Davidson/Fairly substantially.
Lehman/Yea we're going to show you.
Franklin/Yea what it does, it's bringing Camp Cardinal from Highway 6 down through
the Clear Creek property, yes if you can if you want to mock up your map.
Atkins/I don't mind that, we've got lots of maps.
Franklin/Bring it all the way down to here. Kind of in that alignment but not exactly but
for this purpose that's fine. This is to provide a connection between Highway 6
and Melrose Avenue which as you know Coralville has always been very
interested in because of some of the traffic issues on Highway 6. It also opens up
the Clear Creek development property for development for potential development
in the future. What it does do also is it takes some of the pressure off of the 965
project which you should be aware of as we talk about this. What you would see
off of this road, off of the Camp Cardinal extension is more opening up this area
for development, 965 is an arterial and so it doesn't provide access to abutting
properties.
Davidson/965 (can't hear).
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Franklin/And so they have a different nature in terms of what they do in this particular
area as far as development is concerned. As far as traffic cimulation they are a lot
alike in that they both provide more traffic circulation north/south on the west
side. Whether it's 965 or Camp Cardinal it will include some improvement to
Deer Creek Road to handle that added traffic, obviously the improvement to Deer
Creek Road has to be quite a bit longer, where as with the Camp Cardinal
alignment Deer Creek with T into Camp Cardinal and then come down to Melrose
Avenue. This has been a project with which people from the City of Coralville,
staff from Iowa City and the owners of the Clear Creek property have been talking
about as a possibility which is why your seeing it now in your capital
improvements plan.
Lehman/Karin would that project at the same time also move the city limits of Iowa City
and Coralville, would that be adjusted to the ridge line which would then?
Franklin/Yes, you remember in the Comp. Plan right now there is a line that roughly runs
along the top of the ridge.
Lehman/Right.
Franklin/There would be an agreement, there is an agreement between Iowa City and
Coralville right now, a 28E agreement that deals with extraterritorial development
as well as with the future severance of property to Coralville and changing this
corporate limit line to somewhere down in here and that's based upon which
municipality can best serve the land.
Lehman/Are the numbers in here relative to Camp Cardinal computed based on the city
limits where they are presently or where they would be?
Franklin/Where they would be.
Lehman/Where they would be, so the top of the ridgeline to Melrose is the million nine
and from the ridgeline to, or I'm just, but it does include moving the city limits?
Franklin/But, the whole thing would eventually involve moving the city limits, yea.
Vanderhoef/Show me where the 28E agreement line comes in again.
Franklin/Okay the 28E Agreement line that we have in place right now with Coralville
deals with development out in this area in what we review or don't review and
then it also has a line which indicates that at some future time from here north
would be severed and go to Coralville and from here south would stay in Iowa
City.
Vanderhoef/And so there's about two-thirds of that that's going to go to Coralville?
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Franklin/No, I wouldn't say it was two-thirds, yea it's really at the top of the ridge there,
it's less, in terms of the overall property which is currently owned by Clear Creek
that is in the city right now, it is more will remain in Iowa City than will be in
Coralville. In terms of the total Clear Creek property some of which now is in the
county there will be more that would come into Iowa City and some would go into
Coralville.
Kanner/And so what Emie was getting at I think is our 1.9 is for the south of the Mason
Dixon line.
Franklin/The 1.9 includes the Iowa City paying for the upgrade of Deer Creek Road
entirely plus a share of the road that goes through the Clear Creek property, that
share is split between Iowa City, Coralville and the private property owner. And
then Coralville would have a cost from the bridge basically up the property line of
the private.
Lehman/Up to the ridge.
Franklin/No not to the ridge line to the property line.
Lehman/Who pays for, well then maybe my questions wasn't clear. My understanding,
my question is does this number represent the cost of building the road from the
top of the ridge line to Melrose? Because if we're going to be?
Franklin/Roughly yes.
Lehman/Okay fine.
Franklin/Because that's, yes, that represents our share.
Lehman/Yea it doesn't include us improving property that we're going to deannex
Coralville?
Franklin/No, no.
Lehman/Okay that's the question, thank you.
O'Donnell/Is the county going to participate in that at all?
Franklin/No.
Lehman/Probably not.
Champion/Are you kidding?
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Franklin/The county ~vould participate in terms of agreeing to alignments because some
of the property currently is within the county but they are not included in the
financial component of it.
O'Donnell/Why is that?
Davidson/Because it's intended that when the streets extend it will be in conjunction
with development in Coralville.
(END OF 02-10, SIDE TWO)
Davidson/Deal with 965, the agreement, the existing agreement between Iowa
City/Coralville and Johnson County on the 965 extension agrees to that alignment
approximately as I've drawn it but basically it's been intended that the county's
role is to preserve the corridor while it's out in the connty, now let's somebody
build a big barn in the middle of where we know the corridors going to be and
then as Iowa City and Coralville grow out to that area and annex then basically
Iowa City and Coralville would split the costs.
O'Donnell/So basically why do if (can't hear).
Davidson/The county doesn't want to build something and then have it annexed by Iowa
City/Coralville, they did it with the First Avenue bridge in Coralville and kind of
regretted.
Atkins/Folks let me give them sort of a quick update, this is a fairly recent proposal that
Clear Creek and that's Southgate, they own most of the land. They came to the
two cities, me representing the City and the staff, Kelly was representing
Coralville and asked about this and how we would be willing to share. We have
made no official formal agreement with them, they have a draft memo of
understanding which we're still working with.
Franklin/Which would go before the Council.
Atkins/It would have to come before you anyway, we felt that it was an important
enough project and it was put in an out year, in 05 that we certainly have time to
think about it, but they're going to want to know oh I don't know the next few
months or so whether this is going to be acceptable to them. That was sort of the
driving force by putting in the budget so that you had a heads up this, and if we're
going to do this it is ail GO debt and needed to get figured into that aggregate
amount for the whole thing so that's why it's where it is.
Vanderhoef/So what is the responsibility? You said Iowa City was going to have to pay
for all of Deer Creek Road, well we know we have the landfill there and.
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Davidson/ Yea actually Dee when Karin said that she meant just the piece between
Melrose up to that red line just that piece right them.
Lehman/A block or so.
Davidson/Yea and the mst of it is intended would at least for the short term remain in the
County as a gravel road.
Vanderhoef/Okay.
Kanner/Can you show us two items where the Johnson County poor farm is and where
the proposed trail that Coralville's going to be building.
Davidson/The poor farm Steven is right here.
Atkins/Doesn't it have a better name?
Davidson/Chatham Oaks is right there.
Franklin/The County Farm.
Kanner/Steve could you step over a little bit.
Davidson/I'm sorry, Chatham Oaks is right about there and the actual poor farm
buildings are right about here, and this is the farm right there. And what was the
trail you were referring to?
Kanner/Coralville trail, where are they building?
Davidson/Coralville, just built a trail from 12th Avenue, let's see let me find 12th
Avenue, right here down through to the University property right here, it's a great
trail, it goes underneath the railroad tracks. Is that the one you were referring to
Steven?
Kanner/Yea.
Davidson/That's already built actually.
Kanner/Well I guess what I'm thinking about, in terms, we're having a lot of southwest
planning, there's a lot of talk about how we're going to use that property or how
the county is going to use that property out there and I think we have some say so
as far as zoning for the county property and so hopefully we'll negotiate with
them and then with the trail there there's certainly a lot of opportunity for
recreational purposes and we might want to think in terms of how can we promote
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January 24, 2002 Special Budget Work Session Page 25
that, that whole area out there in terms of recreation and that might be something
might want to put as a property over portions of the road.
Lehman/Steve I think, I'm sorry go ahead.
Vanderhoef/I'm trying to figure out what happened to the whole conversation that we
had when we put the 965 alignment onto the transportation plan for the region.
How were we going to access the Clear Creek property from the 965?
Davidson/Yea real simply as I can make it since we're at a very preliminary level of
analysis here Dee what's proposed with that red line is not inconsistent with the
agreement that we have in place. Basically the only difference is the only
difference is at the time we executed that 965 agreement we thought that the road,
we thought that Camp Cardinal would go more like this and then T, T into 965
and that was strictly because that's what the developer of the property was telling
us they intended to do at that time. Now they're telling us they intend to do
something different and we're trying to work with them with respect to having
this fit into our arterial system ultimately before this goes any further once
they've decided they really are serious about what they're going to do and we're
faced with bringing an agreement to you for consideration, the one that Steve
referred to, this would require an arterial street plan amendment to the JCCOG
arterial street plan. We're just not doing that yet because it's too preliminary.
Vanderhoef/Well is there anyway that the 965 can be there access? I know it runs on the
western border of it and for a developer to (can't hear).
Davidson/The 965 extension is part of their development plan but they intend to start
from east and work west because of the water and sewer extensions that would be
required logically go from east to west and so they feel like they need this road as
kind of phase one of their development project but their development project is
consistent with the 965 extension as we've showed here.
Franklin/I think one of the distinctions we need to make too is Camp Cardinal Road is
being envisioned and being built as a collector with more limitations on access
than you might normally have on a collector. The 965 is going to be the primary
arterial and so I think if you think of it in those terms it's a little bit easier to fit in.
When I said that it's going to take pressure off building 965 I mean that practically
and politically because right now where you have this kind of pressure to get some
other connection besides Mormon Trek Boulevard and remember when we talked
about 965 and Mormon Trek we prioritized Mormon Trek which is built. The
next one was to be 965 for the arterials, and I'm just saying by saying it's going to
take some of the pressure off because Camp Cardinal is there and you can get
from A to B and the West High traffic can get from if this road is built from
Melrose up to Coralville, it's going to take some of that mediacy of having to
build 965 to get those kids off of Deer Creek Road out of the equation.
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Davidson/I think it's analogous to considering the arterials that we, the east west arterials
that we have in west Iowa City of Highway 1, Benton Street and Melrose,
Highway 1 and Melrose are your main arterials, they are the through streets that
go out into the county and connect Iowa City with the rest of the world. Benton
Street is a more interior arterial that terminates within the City of Iowa City and I
think that's what this road will be. It will initially provide access for the first
phases of this development, but it's never going to be a major arterial street, it's
going to the minor arterial the major collector with Mormon Trek, First Avenue
and 965 being the major arterials.
Vanderhoef/I guess I'm just looking at the total cost of the two project versus the one
because they had never, it had never been envisioned and it had even been said to
us that no way did they want a heavily trafficked street so close to the intersection
of that entrance to 218 south.
Davidson/Yea and we've looked at this, what Dee's referring to is this intersection right
here.
Vanderhoef/That whole (can't hear) in that area.
Davidson/Right and if you look this intersection right here is very similar to this
intersection right here, it's basically geometrically the same distance from the
intemhange and would likely be treated the same way, when it gets to a certain
traffic volume your going to need a signal there to keep things orderly.
Lehman/I guess I have one question, this has never been discussed by the Council, I
mean this shows up in a CIP for three years from now. If, and I think this needs to
be on the list of things that we're going to talk about Steve.
Atkins/It is.
Lehman/But are we sending a message to the public, I don't think we've discussed this to
the point that we think it's a good idea, a bad idea or just an idea but if we leave it
in the CIP are we telling people that we are basically approving of the concept that
this occur in?
Atkins/I don't believe you are Ernie, it's one of these issues we catch hell when we don't
plan, we catch hell when we plan.
Lehman/No I understand that.
Atkins/We're better off putting it off.
Vanderhoef/But moving it out to the unfunded year might.
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Atkins/You would have, yes, but I think you need to hear the case they wish to make
about the type of development and the other issues that are pertinent to this road.
I put it in because it's something fairly current.
Lehman/I understand that and I'm not saying I don't think it's a wonderful idea and the
whole thing makes sense but I really hate for us to say okay we're going to leave
this $2 million dollars in our capital improvements program having never
discussed it at all among ourselves if we give the impression to the developer and
the public that somehow by approving a budget with this in the CIP we have given
our tacit approval to something we haven't talked about.
Vanderhoef/And what is the zoning out there I've forgotten.
Franklin/ID-RS.
Pfab/What is it?
Franklin/ID-RS, it means Interim Development Residential Single Family and it would
have to be rezoned for anything to happen at all.
Pfab/Is that.
Vanderhoef/Will that be part o~.
Franklin/Oh that will be a big part.
Vanderhoef/I know it's going to be a big part for me but my question is we don't have
the comprehensive plan.
Franklin/This whole concept and I mean, I think we all, ifI can speak for the rest of the
staff understand your dilemma in having it in the Capital Improvements Program
for exactly the reasons that you say Ernie. It requires time spent with you, with
the Iowa City Planning & Zoning Conunission, with the Coralville City Council,
the Coralville Planning & Zoning Commission to go through all of the thinking
that is behind it. And there's a lot to be done yet before it becomes real including
comprehensive plan discussion and zoning with both communities.
Pfab/Is that all residential, is that what that eventually will be?
Vanderhoef/We zone it whatever we want.
Atkins/No, no.
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Franklin/The concept includes some commercial farther west, now remember Clear
Creek owns out into the County, out to 965.
Pfab/A fair mount of commercial out there.
Franklin/What's fair amount mean to you?
Pfab/30 percent.
Davidson/Yea, l think 30 percent.
Franklin/30, I would have said it was less than 30.
Pfab/Okay then see, then that bounces off of the other one going south, there's more
commercial property opening up there eventually. But you said that they came to
you and discussed, what are they looking for?
Atkins/Sure.
Lehman/Camp Cardinal Road.
Atkins/They're looking for Camp Cardinal Road and at a $2 million dollar commitment
from the City to help build it.
Pfab/Oh that's, okay.
Atkins/That's really what they bottom line.
Vanderhoef/Sure.
Atkins/And that's okay, I mean that's a proposal by a developer and we need to go
through that.
Pfab/I'm somewhat reluctant, I'm supportive of Ernie's position, what's it doing here?
Lehman/Well we'll put it on the list and we'll talk about it.
Atkins/This is a plan, and if you want us to asterisk, thank you, asterisk certain, as a very.
Vanderhoef/Say it three times.
Atkins/No I'm not going to say it three time, if you wish to put a dot next to it, and you
know further consideration, that's fine, this is your plan, you have the ability to
shape it, twist it, do whatever you want to do, if your not prepared to commit to
Camp Cardinal that's an okay message to send.
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Lehman/Steve I think that you just said something that I think is pretty critical. By, when
we go through these Capital Improvement Projects for the next five years, you
used the word commit, I don't, maybe I misunderstand, we commit to what were
going to do next year.
Franklin/That's right.
Lehman/We don't commit, I mean next year sitting right here we could change, we could
delete every program we have presently we'll be putting into 2004, but I think we
as a Council, I do, when we leave something there I think oh god we said we're
going to do it, we really haven't said that at all, we have said that in our plans this
is kind of where these pieces fit in the puzzle.
Atkins/Emie many years ago, 8 or 10 years ago I went through this process with Council
Members and their concern was we wanted to send a message particularly to those
folks who wished to developed their land whether we were going to do these
projects and it was important to the Council that when these things get on the list
that means they're being considered. Of course the Council could change and the
majority could change unless you have a formal contract on it you can change
anything you want.
Lehman/Right but see, and the reason I say that I look at Foster Road/Prairie Du Chien,
that's $1.9 million which I also think is maybe something we want to flag. We're
looking at the widening of Interstate 80 to three lanes, my suspicion is there may.
Atkins/You moving ahead to another project? I just want to make sure.
Lehman/Yea we got that one done.
Atkins/That one's flagged.
Lehman/We may be looking at some reconfiguration of the entrance or exit ramps for
that intersection on Dubuque Street, I don't know that.
Davidson/We are.
Pfab/That's what we're hoping for.
Lehman/Okay, well, but, and I don't even know if there's even a possibility or perhaps a
remote possibility that if this intersection could be done at the same time that
those entrance and exit ramps and I don't know that there's a chance of getting
any funding from the DOT or from any other source.
Franklin/No.
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Lehman/It's possible isn't it? And certainly if the projects were done at the same time
they could perhaps be more efficiently even if we don't get any financial
assistance.
Davidson/I think the only state or federal funding your likely to get, see Dubuque Street
and Foster Road isn't on a state designated system, that's a local street.
Lehman/We're going to donate it to the state.
Davidson/The STP funds that are allocated through JCCOG I mean those are ongoing
source of funds, those are funds that you all could determine that was a priority for
that intersection.
Lehman/But see my frustration is that I don't want the folks who live out them that this
is, hey we've got this budgeted for 2005, that's not true, we've got it in our plan
for 2005 if things work out that way, we did two projects on Mormon Trek that
weren't even in the CIP, that were huge projects, one we're just completing right
now, the other one we did the year before.
Atkins/ You can move them up, you can do anything you want.
Lehman/Yea.
Pfab/I might have a suggestion here, what about putting possible projects?
Champion/Does anybody really take that literally?
Pfab/Oh yes these people do because they (can't hear) preliminary.
Franklin/Well, when we.
Atkins/I would encourage you to.
Wilbum/It's called unfunded.
Franklin/Yea right.
Atkins/To finish reviewing them all then when we're all done your going to debate each
and every one of these and you may wish to have an asr.
Franklin/An asterisk.
Pfab/A mark.
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Atkins/Asterisk.
Lehman/An irregularly shaped dot.
Atkins/A glob mark next to the thing that it has some other (can't hear).
(all talking).
Franklin/Before, okay, I would hate to use.
Atkins/Are we still on Camp Cardinal?
Franklin/I would hate to lose. Pardon me.
Atkins/Are we still on Camp Cardinal?
Franklin/We're talking, this is a general statement but pertinent to what Ernie's been
talking about. I would hate to lose doing a longer range Capital Improvement
Plan because of the fear of what it says to people in terms of a commitment. As
we talk to people who call whether it's developers or neighbors or whomever, we
will tell them that the only thing we can tell them for sure is what is happening
right now, what's under contract and the next fiscal year is the surest thing,
otherwise it's out there, it's in a plan, it's in a general vision, but it could change,
and so that's the message they will get from staff always when they ask about it
and that's how most people feel with this.
Kanner/We do have a quote here in the financial plan overview, multi-year financial plan
informs parties both inside and outside government of it's future objectives and
providing services to constituents.
Atkins/Right, that's correct.
Karmer/So I think it's pretty strong and I think it's something we have to be weary off
Davidson/I would echo Karin's statement though because when I get daily calls from
people when something's going to be done and if it's something that's out there
past the next fiscal year I tell them I believe it's Council's intention to do this
sometime, and if you believe it's important you should let them know that it's
important to do sooner or later.
Atkins/You also have to, please keep in mind that a Council could change and you all
know that your going to approve a Capital Plan eventually but when we bring
these projects to you individually some of you are going to vote against them
because you never did agree with them.
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Lehman/Right. Well that I think for me, the key I think, first of all I think Capital
Improvement Projects represent good planning, they represent vision, they give
not only the public but the staff some indication of how Council feels. I'd also
think that it does give a indication that there is approval, there is interest and an
approval to some level on the part of the Council it wouldn't stay in the Capital
Improvements Projects so if we think something is absolutely out of line we're
totally not interested it should not stay here, if we think it has merit even though
we're not positive we want to do it, it can stay here without any guarantee that
we're going to do it.
Champion/We should only, (can't hear) I'm from a large family.
O'Dormell/So am I go ahead. We do that every year though Ernie, we just 2004 and
we've given indication we're going to have a new ladder truck, it may not happen,
I mean you get to each year individually and.
Atkins/Hey Mike, when you go back to this list and you amend it that ladder truck may
be pushed off to 2005 and we'll give you a new plan that does what you want it to
do.
O'Donnell/But we do it on a regular basis.
Atkins/Sure you do.
Champion/I think your overrating the power of this piece of paper Ernie because this is
only a two year document because the City Council changes every two years and I
wouldn't put in any great.
Pfab/I'm going to support you because I know they sue if what's in those words they sue
about them so I'm going to be a lot more careful (can't hear).
Lehman/Irvin they sue about them if they say you have to do it this way and you don't,
nothing says you have to do this.
Pfab/But it did say you have to do this.
Vanderhoef/Each year we vote on one year.
(All talking)
Atkins/Remember this is a budget, it is a plan, you can appropriate one year at a time,
that's the law.
Lehman/All right, do we have other items in the 2005 page that we're looking at?
Obviously Camp Cardinal Road, Foster Road.
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Atkins/Yea I wanted, Karin and I want to flag for you on 05 is the South
Gilbert/Napoleon east/west arterial $800,000 because that's something that's
starting to kick around right now. That's the Texas housing development, would
you give them a few minutes worth of that please?
Champion/Gilbert Street/Napoleon.
Atkins/Down by the new Public Works Building, Napoleon Girls Softball, down there.
Champion/Right.
Franklin/Right now we're in the process of working through a proposal for development
in this area, somewhat generally and then also somewhat specifically. The
specifically is an apartment complex that has been proposed hem off of Gilbert
Street and one of the things that we have indicated to the developer is that given
the amount of traffic that this is likely to generate that Gilbert Street should be
improved from where it is a four lane now down to the point at which it would
intersect in the future with this Mormon Trek Boulevard coming across and we're
also looking at incidentally the aligntnent of that Mormon Trek Boulevard
extension or whatever it's called when it gets across the river as it comes through
the south district. So what is in the capital plan is a cost of improvement of
Gilbert Street and what has not been resolved at this point is who pays what and
when. Because Iowa City, usually when we look at sharing the costs of the
construction ora road we will look at the ownership and then the cost of that can
conceivably or arguably go toward whoever owns the development property on
either side of it. In this case the $800,000 that's in the capital plan reflects the
total cost of bringing that four lane down to that new intersection or that future
intersection I should say. We own, the city owns everything on the west side of
Gilbert Street so we are like the private developer on the west side of the street so
one could argue that half the cost $400,000 logically goes to the city as the owners
of the property on that side, and then the other $400,000 would go toward, would
be from the development on the east side. I don't know what else to say.
Pfab/But we don't own all of it on the west side, Dean Oakes has a very choice location
spot there.
Schmadeke/That piece that Olin Lloyd has that we.
Franklin/Oh Olin Lloyd, the two, yea, yea.
Davidson/Yea that's the only piece that the city doesn't own it's like two acres right at
the entrance.
Lehman/Right.
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Franklin/Right.
Lehman/But that's why this is in.
Vanderhoef/Is that where the apartment is going to go?
Franklin/No, the apartment complex is on 17 acres on the east side of Gilbert Street.
Vanderhoef/East side.
Franklin/Yes.
Davidson/Yea where the sand pit is on the.
Vanderhoef/A different owner is to the north.
Davidson/Sand pit on the east side just north of there.
Lehman/Right, across from the Public Works building.
Franklin/Right, right.
Pfab/And how far along is that in Planning & Zoning?
Franklin/Let's see, in terms of that project the rezoning request has come in, I think it
was deferred indefinitely, there was a neighborhood meeting on it.
Lehman/Tuesday, Tuesday night.
Franklin/Last, yea this week, Tuesday night.
Pfab/And there's another meeting coming up, I think it just came through on e-mail
today the 6th February or something like that.
Atkins/No that's the southwest district.
Franklin/That's the southwest district I think. No this is the south district and the
developer met with the neighborhood Tuesday night, there were not very many
people that came from the neighborhood, it will go to the Planning & Zoning
Commission at their first meeting in February which is February 7 1 think if that's
a Thursday.
Lehman/6th or 7th, right.
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Franklin/And then they will consider the project and the amendments to the
comprehensive plan, they'll have to set a public hearing on the amendments to the
comprehensive plan, all that kind of thing so it will be in Planning & Zoning
Commission in February and probably in March.
Pfab/I'm very concerned because I think there's some private or natural prairie there and
the way the subdivision is it's going to basically kill that and I think that.
Franklin/There is a group that has formed called the Sand Prairie Preservation Project
that is providing input to the Planning & Zoning Commission on those very
issues. But that is an issue that is aside I think from your capital question,
improvement of Gilbert Street.
Lehman/Right, right.
Pfab/If they're not successful in amiserating that sand prairie they might not go ahead
with that.
Lehman/Okay anything else in the year 2005 that you wanted to?
Atkins/No I wanted to flag those for you.
Fosse/Ernie I just wanted to point out that if you look in the County's five year program I
think you'll find that they include the improvements of Sand Road from the
corporate limits on south to the improvements that they made a couple years ago.
Lehman/Just in their 05.
Fosse/It's in their five year program, I don't know where it falls within that.
Lehman/That's something we would probably need, we really should know so ours
corresponds with theirs I would think wouldn't you? Do them at the same time.
Well I mean I would think, first of all the cost of doing the project would be
significantly affected if you let one project or one contractor could bid the two.
Champion/Right.
Fosse/It could be some economy, right.
Franklin/I guess one other thing that I would point out is that this timing in 05 for this
South Gilbert Street.
Lehman/Could be way off.
Franklin/Well this timing of 05 would not be in time if this project were to go through.
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Lehman/It would have to be much sooner than that.
Franklin/It would have to be much sooner.
Atkins/That does not mean.
Vanderhoef/Do we already own the right of ways so the sighting of this project would be
with what we needed for the width of that?
Franklin/If we don't we'll get it through the subdivision of the property that we have it
on the west side. I think we have the right of way.
Davidson/It could be just a county easement isn't it Chuck?
Franklin/Oh yea.
Champion/Karin why would you? When you talk about improving that road for this
development, what are you talking about? What kind of improvement?
Franklin/Taking the rural cross section putting it in an urban cross section and four lanes
down to the future intersection.
Champion/Oh okay, but why would you need four lanes?
Franklin/Well it's a matter of when you do an urban improvement there because it's four
lanes to the north and your coming down to what well in the future be a major
intersection of two arterial streets your going to want that in the long run, you
don't need it right now.
Davidson/South of the intersection then we would taper down to two lanes.
Franklin/And that's another reason to do a shared cost.
Champion/(can't hear) intersection you'd do it like it would be done forever, oh okay.
You really would not need a four lane road you'd be building a four lane
intersection.
Vanderhoef/The rest of that.
Davidson/But we don't want that little, we don't want that little.
Atkins/Irvin was trying to ask a question then everybody jumped in.
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Pfab/Okay Rick you had made a comment that part of south on Gilbert Street the County
had made, there was a space in between the county had made some improvements.
Fosse/Yea.
Pfab/Where are you talking those are?
Fosse/It's south of the road that goes over to our south waste water treatment plant, the
Napoleon.
Franklin/Napoleon Street.
Pfab/About how far?
Vanderhoef/Down by the (can't hear).
Wilburn/Where the apple orchard is.
Lehman/Two miles south of here, probably at least two miles.
Pfab/What you say, where is it in relationship to the orchard then?
Fosse/It's south of the orchard.
Pfab/It's south, okay I couldn't vision it.
Davidson/And just so everyone's clear I don't believe it's the County's, I just attended
the five year road plan meeting with the Supervisor's, and I don't believe the
supervisors, I think they only intend to improve that up to our growth area limit,
not to the corporate limits. Within the growth area they intend for Iowa City to
reconstruct Sand Road.
Pfab/Okay so they.
Lehman/IfI were a supervisor I would too.
Davidson/Sure.
Pfab/But as City Council we expect them to.
Lehmarff Okay 2006.
Kanner/But Karin let me just clarify, the thought that is maybe $400,000 of that
$800,000 would come from private developers?
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Franklin/Potentially.
Kanner/But right now we're budgeting the whole $800,000 for City GO.
Franklin/I guess what I would.
Atkins/It's the same kind of issue Steven I believe as Camp Cardinal, I feel obligated to
flag this issue, my observation would be they would probably find the 2005
unacceptable because I think they'd like to build tomorrow if they had. My
thinking was that we may have to go ahead, if you were to approve the project and
they were to build, we may just have to work around the road.
Pfab/Why do we put in $800,000 if our obligation fund (can't hear)?
Atkins/Because I want to show you the total cost of the thing, it's not our obligation, and
we haven't negotiated it.
Pfab/Well maybe we ought to put like a half of that.
Atkins/No that's not (Can't hear) the cost.
Lehman/Irvin we always put the total cost in, if you look at the funding sources you see
where the payments come from but the total cost needs to be there.
Pfab/Okay that's a good point.
2006 Projects
Atkins/Six is up there, the one that I want to flag for you is Lower West Branch Road.
Champion/Yea what is that?
Atkins/Would that person like to?
Franklin/I think that's me.
Atkins/That's you again.
Wilburn/That person.
Franklin / That person.
Atkins/That person.
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Franklin/What this is is putting this leg of Lower West Branch Road into the Capital
Improvements Program to get it out of the unfunded year into a funded year in the
farthest one out. The signal that sends is that it is a project that at some point the
city will support but it's way out there. This is one in which we have through the
development process with the Lindemann annexation, the Plum Grove annexation
and Mr. Watts is on notice that the development of property which is within a
certain distance of Lower West Branch Road, the expectation will be and it's in a
formal agreement with both Lindemann and Plum Grove Acres that they will pay
a pro rata share of the cost of this road to improve it. So it's one of those, we're
kind of setting up a way in which we can include the developer's in paying the
cost of some of these collector streets, or arterial, well it's not an arterial street,
this is going to be a collector.
Vanderhoeff Our stuff that we did Tuesday night that they would be part of that road.
Franklin/That was in that conditional zoning agreement.
Vanderhoef/Yes.
Franklin/Yes.
Champion/Just show me where Scott Boulevard is will you please.
Franklin/Scott Boulevard is right here, so what we're looking at is as development starts
to happen in here in these areas where annexation has taken place that there's
some share that whoever's going to develop this land puts into the road. We
would do the same thing as the property is annexed on the north side of the road.
Champion/Okay.
Kanner/Your saying close to 100 percent of the cost?
Franklin/No, what we do is we take the total cost and the first thing we do is divide that
by 50 percent because we figure that half of the traffic that is on there is general
community traffic. And then we have 50 percent remaining, we divide that
between north and south and then prorate depending on acres.
Kanner/All right, basically then developers or private interest would pay for about half
the cost and we would pay for the other, yea.
Franklin/Right.
Pfab/When your looking at cost your looking at total, time, engineering, everything?
Franklin/Yes that's what our estimates are based on now.
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Pfab/Okay.
Franklin/Now one of the things that it is based on current dollars such as when we went
into the CZA's on these last two is based on current dollars, but when you do this
kinds of things you want to be more conservatively than greedy.
Lehman/Okay. Is there anything else we want to flag in 2006?
Champion/I want to go (can't hear).
Lehman/Yea I think we all do.
Atkins/At 3:00 you want to take a break?
Lehman/I'm sorry.
Vanderhoef/Just update us on the fire apparatus for the 05 and 06.
O'Donnell/We've already covered that.
Atkins/Just a replacement of pumpers, it's a scheduled replacement.
Vanderhoef/For 06, 442, there's another one in 05 and then there's another one.
O'Donnell/It' s continued.
Atkins/Yep, we've got several that need replacement.
Lehman/We're going to come back and deal with that in about 10 minutes.
O'Donnell/Do you have economic development up there on?
Atkins/No but I will put it up. Should we take a few minutes?
BREAK
Champion/Who are we missing?
Atkins/Dee's at the door.
Franklin/Steve and Ross.
Lehman/That may take a long time.
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Champion/We're going to evaluate the lateness of Council Members.
Lehman/All right I think we need to do now and if this is all right with Council we need
to go back I believe depending on your.
Pfab/What page is it?
Lehman/Well right now I'm not any page, I'd like to talk about the way I think we should
go through this, I think we need to go through the budget, there are several items I
think that may apply to each year of the budget and if they do I'd like to talk about
those one at a time, give Steve an answer and then the decision that we make he
can apply each of those years, when an item appears only once on the budget if we
care to move them, eliminate them, whatever, we can also give them an answer
but I think we need to go through these one by one and give him some answers.
Champion/Okay.
Unfunded Pro[ects
Lehman/So they can be an amended budget, if there are items in the unfunded section
that we feel should be in the funded section somewhere before 2007 those should
be brought to our attention somewhere close in here.
Pfab/I have a question, what about the Dog Park? I don't have a dog but.
Lehman/Well is that in the unfunded, okay it is.
Kanner/It's number 15.
Atkins/Number 15.
Lehman/Okay we'll do those first. Are there issues there that we would like to discuss
obviously?
Pfab/I believe if we're going to help keep the dogs out of the Hickory Hill area they
have, we should be looking at some kind of a way to accommodate some of those
people.
Champion/What about?
Lehman/Where was this in the discussion of Parks and Recreation Commission?
Trueblood/It's, our Commission has discussed it at least two or three occasions and it's
not a high priority by the majority of the Commission members. There are some
Commission members that think it's a very viable project, I've been asked
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questions on occasion not a lot from people from the general public and my
response to them has basically been if there's a community group that comes
forward that wants to spearhead this including some fundraising we'll listen but
until then I didn't perceive the city spearheading the effort to develop a dog park.
Lehman/Well and we did give that back to Parks and Recreation Commission.
Champion/Right.
Pfab/Okay so what your saying is you'd be happy to work with somebody if they come
with some ideas and some money.
Trueblood/That's another way to look at it.
Vanderhoef/Put it the other way around, come with some money.
Pfab/Oh I said and, I didn't say or, I said and.
Champion/You know there's an old saying that "what was tomb in the sidewalks of that
University and the President apologized for the kids walking on the grass and
wearing it out and he suggested that maybe they should put the sidewalk where
people walk. And maybe we ought to think about this same thing with this dog
park, for instance, people do use Hickory Hill Park to mn dogs and what was that
other park?
(All talking)
Atkins/Ryerson's.
Champion/Ryerson's woods, have the Parks and Rec. people talked about having a
couple hours an evening where dogs could run there without being ticketed.
Pfab/I think that dogs are just (can't hear) your effort that your trying to do with that
Hickory Hill area and I don't like to.
Champion/It is a park.
Pfab/Well it really isn't, it's a wilderness area type of thing.
Lehman/All right.
Champion/Anyway, never mind.
O'Donnell/(can't hear).
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Lehman/Are there four Council people, are there four of us who would like. Well Irvin
are you suggesting that that be put on the?
Pfab/No I'm just saying, if your not.
Lehman/Well what we're looking at, are there projects in the unfunded years that we feel
should be moved up into 02-06.
Pfab/I would just like to make this comment, if there, I would like some way if the public
comes forward that we can move on it, you know if they come, if there's an
organized group comes forward and says hey we would like this is there a way for
us to work with them? That's all, no more, no less.
Trueblood/Sure there is as long as it doesn't involve a lot of city money.
Lehman/It's a $50,000 item, we have come up with a lot more than that when we have
to.
Pfab/ Okay.
Lehman/So are there other items?
Wilbum/I guess it's not necessary to have this put up there but I've had in the past year
several folks asking me about sidewalks on Sycamore down to the Hemmingway,
down there.
Atkins/Just an idea.
Fosse/Something we're checking out, we're going to be doing a trail project down in the
South Sycamore Regional Storm water project that we did last year.
Wilburn/Okay.
Fosse/As a part of that we're looking at renting some land across the undeveloped areas
and extending just a temporary walk to connect that neighborhood to the sidewalk
system that exists to the on Sycamore so that that link will exist.
Atkins/Can you some idea of the cost because if it's something pretty simple I don't have
trouble of just approving it and getting it done if it's reasonable?
Fosse/Probably in the $40,000 range.
Atkins/Well that's a little hefty, okay.
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Wilburn/Yea and I remember if it was linked to the railroad that we pulled it off last year
or the year before but it was folks that were walking in the street from those
developments, up in there, either to school or down to the soccer parks so.
Pfab/Yea, I support what your (can't hear).
Atkins/Well let's just make a note of it, would you report back in 30 days or something
on the status of that, is that reasonable?
Fosse/Sure, yea that would be great.
Atkins/By memo we'll get something back to you and let you know where it is.
Wilburn/At least I can.
Lehman/I agree I think that's significant enough and if it can be done on a temporary
basis that that, if it's an amount of $30-$40,000 it needs to appear in the budget I
would be in favor of showing that is there other folks?
Atkins/Normally Emie I think it's by ordinance and I have authority to spend up to
$50,000 to approve contracts and so forth.
Lehman/Then I really don't think it needs to be.
Atkins/Now let me finish, but when it involves sort of physical asset, something we're
going to put in the ground, I really think it's better that it has your blessing on the
thing, I don't mind approving the contracts to do engineering work and
architectural and so forth but if it becomes to brick and mortar it gets, that size I
think you should have a hand in that.
Vanderhoef/And then I would have to say are we serving more people putting that one in
at $40,000 say versus putting $40,000 on completing the Highway 6 project along
the sewer line and moving it off out.
Atkins/And those are legit, questions, that's why I think before we go to build the thing
we'll send you a memorandum and then you can think it through.
Fosse/If we can make this happen we'll roll into the South Sycamore Regional Storm
Water trail so that you'll see it again in that form.
Lehman/Okay.
Atkins/On Unfunded.
Lehman/Other items from unfunded.
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Vanderhoef/Well this idea that was brought to Parks and Rec. by the FIRST group to do
the Sand Lake Trail and do some enhancement down there, what struck my mind
was that I think it's Item, not 36, where is it, I saw it here a minute ago, 34, the
Iowa River Trail pedestrian bridge which we talked about a long time ago and that
is also a piece then that goes with the trail that's on the west side of the river.
When we hit the west side of the river then we're talking about Brownfield's, and
the brown field piece that is on where the transit center is on right now and to
reclaim that and also Mesquakie Park is a Brown field, so that's another big piece
of it. When I look at the CAT funds that were awarded to Cedar Rapids for their
river enhancement and their Brownfield kind of thing I would wonder if we would
like to at least pursue a little more information on that, I'm not saying putting it
into a funded area but is there a big enough package here that we should be
looking at a project like that that would possibly connect up city funds, CAT
funds, Brownfield funds?
Franklin/Community Attraction.
Pfab/I would support that, I.
Vanderhoef/Investigate it a bit is all I'm saying.
Pfab/Right, I would support looking at it farther.
Atkins/I think your on, unless I hear otherwise what your asking us to do is look at I
guess Terry it's a question for you to prepare a report on whether CAT funds
would be available for Mesquakie Park, is that the bottom line?
Vanderhoef/Well CAT funds to do this whole project but make.
Atkins/To do the Sand Lake Trail as well.
Vanderhoef/Sand Lake and do the trail from Burlington down to the park on the west
side of the river, include these Brownfields, clean up beautification, all of that.
Atkins/You tmderstand the question Terry? Okay.
Trueblood/No but I'll look into it anyway.
(All laughing)
Kanner/That's why he's the Zen master.
Atkins/Is that it? Okay anymore unfunded ones? We can always come back to them
later on particularly as you start your debate.
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Karmer/I had a question about number 67 and replacing City Park Pool System.
Atkins/Okay.
Kanner/Is that in relation, in connection with some other project?
Trueblood/No that's the filtration and pumping system for the pool as it now exists.
When we basically, not basically, when we renovated that pool in 1988 or 89 the
pumping and filtration system was renovated but not replaced at that time and so
we're starting to experience problems with it and it's nearing the time when it's
going to have to be replaced, it's not the whole pool. It's got nothing to do with
the pool tank, the bath house or anything, it's just the mechanical aspects of
operating the pool.
Atkins/How many people use that pool a year?
Champion/A lot.
Trueblood/Can't tell you just off the top of my head.
Kanner/But it's well used.
Trueblood/Oh during the hot summer months, yea, it's more heavily used than either one
of the other pools, but of course when we have cool days it's not but.
Pfab/Has overall a year, although the other seasons are the (can't hear) proportioned as to
units because of the high use in the summertime and where does it, how does it
rank say with the one down south here and (can't hear)?
Trueblood/In the summertime City Park pool is easily our most heavily used pool.
Pfab/Right but over a year, basically.
O'Donnell/Well it's closed during the winter.
Pfab/Yea I know.
Trueblood/You mean an annual figure the other pools as compared with the summer
figure? You know I'd have to get that information for you.
Pfab/If you could I'd appreciate it, it's not a matter of life or death or anything like that.
Kanner/But I think we might need to move this up a little bit put it back into the funded
projects, this is a.
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Champion/Well if it does break it will become an emergency and then we'll have to fund
it because you can not do without City Park pool, it's, it's like, it's just an
important park.
Kanner/Well we might as well be realistic I think.
Champion/It might last for 10 years.
Lehman/Well I guess my question if it, Terry if you felt this was in imminent danger of
collapse why doesn't it appear through 06?
TruebIood/Your asking the wrong person.
Atkins/Because I put it out.
Trueblood/He took it out.
(All talking)
Lehman/Sorry, sorry, Terry I asked the wrong guy.
Atkins/I moved it out.
Lehman/Okay.
Atkins/Terry you also were able to do some bubble gum and banding wire to help patch
that?
Trueblood/Well.
Atkins/Oh that's the recreation center pool, never mind, never mind, I'm sorry.
Tmeblood/Yea I think your thinking of the Recreation Center pool, to my knowledge we
didn't.
Atkins/You thought it was going to be expensive and you were able to fix it for much
less, yea.
VanderhoelY Because of a break.
Trueblood/And we didn't use more than one package of bubble gum as far as I know.
Atkins/I understand that now.
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Vanderhoef/The recreation pool was number 6 on the Parks and Rec. top priority.
Atkins/And Terry's since taken care of that.
Vanderhoef/And pool filtration system fell to number 9.
Trueblood/At the time yea, we had told them, we had told them at the time that it
appeared as if the Recreation Center pool was a more critical situation and it was,
but we also found out since then that we could repair it at a lot less cost than what
we were originally told by a consultant we were working with. The City Park
pool, the thing I hesitate with what you brought up Connie is we think we'll be
fine for another year at City.
(END OF 02-12, SIDE ONE)
Trueblood/Sure but if you wait until it breaks down to replace it your looking at having
the pool closed maybe the entire summer.
Champion/Oh really, not just a machine you plug in.
Trueblood/No.
Karmer/The other thing.
Lehman/Seriously, it's not a matter of, I can't imagine a filtration system that couldn't be
replaced in a, parts alone would probably be the hardest thing at time, lead time to
get the equipment.
Trueblood/Exactly, yea it's, ifa pump goes out, for a pump that size your probably
looking at least a week or two to get that part in and that's just one part, if more
than that breaks down your looking at parts that have to be manufactured before
you can even get them there and we're looking at an entirely new more efficient
pumping and filtration system.
O'Donnell/Terry how old is that system?
Tmeblood/How old is it? The pool itself is over 60 years old, just off the top of my
head I'm not sure I can tell you how 01d the present system is but I'm pretty sure
some of them are original, I know the filtration tank is original.
O'Dormell/So we haven't replaced.
Trueblood/We renovated when we, and we've had to put a new pump in on occasion but
it's system in it's entirety was renovated in 88 or 89 and at that time we figured
well 10-15 years we'll probably need to look at it again.
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Vanderhoef/And we're there.
Champion/And we don't want the pool closed for a summer (can't hear).
Kanner/The other thing that we might look at if we put it in a couple years down the
road is seeing if there's any money available for doing some solar system, there's
a lot of systems out there and there's grant money from places like the Iowa
Energy Center that might kick in with something that's innovative.
Trueblood/But the solar systems have to do more so with heating the pool and that's not
(can't hear).
Kanner/No there's also solar energy to run the system to cut back on energy use and to
perhaps look at ozone cleaning system or ultra violet, there's a few different
systems out there that.
Champion/Those haven't been perfected though Steven, that ozone is really up in the air
isn't it?
Kanner/No ozone's being used for.
Atkins/She didn't even know she did it.
(All talking)
Kanner/She's a natural, that was good. Actually there are system, there are water plants
that are using ozone, there are water plants that are using ultra violet.
Champion/But aren't those experimental basis?
Kanner/Yea.
VanderhoefJ Coralville's putting in a water system that is not so ultra violet.
Lehman/Lunar.
Kanner/Ultra violet is big but I'm just saying if we put it in two years from now this
gives the staff to look at some other options that might work out and also look at
grant opportunities, I think there might be some grant money for that too.
Trueblood/We can certainly look into that.
Champion/Yea.
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Lehman/Okay any other thing in the unfunded years? Steve let's go back to your list.
Atkins/ Okay.
Lehman/ I've got a suggestion as to how I'd like to start with this, I'd like to do these one
item at a time, there are some items.
Kanner/A work of art.
Atkins/This is where we began capital stuff.
Lehman/All right there are some items that I think, and Public Art is the first item, and it
is an item that does appear in each of the next five years in Capital Improvements
Projects. Is there an interest to do what we talked about two hours about reducing
the amount of the commitment to Public Art from $100,000 to $50,000 and do
what we can to raise money from the private sector?
O'Donnell/Yes.
Wilburn/I guess I'i1 if I can just put out an additional piece of thinking before you decide
whether it's a dumb idea or not. One of the reasons I asked because I was hoping
to support the Art out in the neighborhoods and in some of the parks and so and in
my thinking probably the scale of those projects would be less than what
happened downtown and Karin had informed us that in the three neighborhoods it
was around $38,000.
Franklin/That was the projection.
Wilburn/And so that was my thinking was that probably the $50,000 1 had said $100,000
every other year thinking that's roughly $50,000 a year was kind of my thinking
along those lines, just throw that extra piece of information in there.
Lehman/Is there support for that?
Vanderhoef/I'll still say this is one of those things that when you put it into bonding
versus coming out of general fund you are paying more than $38,000 for that
project over the life of those bonds and I can't really support putting something
that is nonessential into bonding.
Lehman/Well I think the question though isn't whether, and I don't disagree with you
because I know when this first came up I don't know that our intention was to
bond for it, but we've been doing that. But I think our question is whether or not
we want $100,000 in the budget or $50,000, and I personally feel given the state
of the budget that.
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Atkins/It's $500,000 over five years, it's another way to look at it.
Lehman/Given the state of the budget I don't have a problem in $50,000 a year and
obviously if we choose to change that next year or the year after or whatever we
can do that but I would prefer to see the $50,000 than the $100,000.
Champion/I will go along with the $50,000, I'm not willing to do away with it like I said
it will never get put back in.
O'DonneI1/So that's four with $50,000 Emie.
Atkins/I haven't counted four yet.
O'Donnell/Well Emie, Connie, (can't hear) Mike, four.
Karmer/Karin what's committed already or in the project maybe not funded but we've?
Franklin/The only thing that is committed is the $8,000 for the Near Southside
Transportation Center, because they wanted a contract.
Champion/Karin (can't hear).
Kanner/What are the other projects that are planned for?
Franklin/Neighborhood art, the Irving Weber Statue sharing in the cost of that with the
Lions, I think that was it.
Kanner/We pay for all of our sculptures.
Franklin/The sculptures are all paid, everything else that we have to do yet which is the
only thing is to do the final payment on Jazz which is the sculpture on downtown
that will be paid on 02. Oh the extension of the Literary Walk and that's
something that Public Art will have to decide about, I mean then it becomes a
matter of priority.
Champion/Right it still allows you to do some things.
Franklin/It allows you to do it but if it's $50,000 and they would prefer to do the
neighborhood art which I'm finding some support from the Council versus the
Literary Walk extension then they would do that, or as Dee has suggested raise
private funds which will be, I will say I will put squarely on the Public Art
Committee since we don't have any fundraising staff.
Lehman/Okay.
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Champion/Okay.
Lehman/All right the next item is the Mormon Trek Extension/921.
Atkins/That's a three year project, a total of $7.6 million and that's what's in the plan, it
is in three phases, first phase is.
Davidson/Your kind of committed to the first phase I guess pretty much (can't hear).
Lehman/It's got other funds in it.
Davidson/It's got like 80 percent Federal funds, or maybe not quite 80 (can't hear).
Atkins/It also from the land perspective opens the most land potential development
(can't hear).
Lehman/This goes from Highway 1 to Dane Road or a little past.
Davidson/(can't hear).
Lehman/Well does it go as far as the manufactured home park?
Atkins/No.
Davidson/Probably to that vicinity.
Lehman/Just about to that area.
Atkins/I thought it went to Williams, no.
Davidson/But we won't know until we get prices.
Vanderhoef/It goes to Williams or not to Williams did you say?
Davidson/It probably go into Williams.
Atkins/Here's Williams.
Franklin/Come down here.
Atkins/Okay, okay, phase one.
Champion/And that's what's on the?
Atkins/That's the first year.
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Champion/Okay I.
Vanderhoef/And that's 80 percent.
Champion/Right.
Davidson/And we're hoping that Davis, Dane and Williams property would be opened
up.
Lehman/Which is a pretty good size chunk of ground.
Atkins/It's getting, Davis, right, Williams, and then Dane.
Lehman/Is there any interest on the, to removing that or changing that or whatever? I
feel it needs to be done.
O'Donnell/It has to.
Champion/We're talking about 02 now right?
Atkins/Yes.
Champion/Leave it.
Atkins/It's a three year plan.
Champion/I understand.
Lehman/Actually I think it starts in 03.
Vanderhoef/Well I would leave all three phases in as they are projected knowing that this
will change next year on phase two.
Lehman/Okay.
Atkins/This plan is leave it alone so this one is okay.
Lehman/The next item you have is.
Atkins/Fire equipment.
Lehman/I would propose to the Council that we take fire apparatus as it appears
throughout the five years and ask that each of those expenditures be delayed for
two years.
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Atkins/Okay, I would ask one qualifying statement.
Lehman/Go ahead.
Atkins/If we discover that there is a I want the right certainly to come back to you and
say we've got to move ahead with it, and it may require some additional
borrowing.
Lehman/Steve we would do that with the present.
Atkins/Okay.
Lehman/CIP if we had an unusual situation.
O'Donnell/And I think it's being done intentions, our intentions are not to compromise
safety.
Kanner/So we're pushing back 14 year schedule to 20 to now 22?
Atkins/No, 14 to 16, in affect.
Karmer/What was the 20 year?
Atkins/That's what it used to be.
Lehman/But we do a really good job of maintaining our equipment.
Atkins/ Yes we do.
Lehman/I really don't, I don't want anybody to interpret that as not being appreciative of
the fire department because I think they do a wonderful job but there are fire
pieces of fire equipment around the country that are 40 and 50 years old that are
still being used, I don't advocate that we have equipment that old but on the other
hand we do a really good job of maintaining our equipment and unless we have a
specific situation that requires a specialized piece of equipment that we don't have
I don't see any problem with trying to make those last an extra couple years.
Atkins/What you just did then would take 05 and 06 fire apparatus and move them in
affect unfunded.
Champion/Okay.
Atkins/Okay. Now that's a decision of some consequence, that's an $800,000 decision
you just made, okay.
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Kanner/So we're pushing the 04 to 06 basically.
Vanderhoef/$800,000.
Atkins/Wherever it is Steven move it two years.
Lehman/Two years.
Vanderhoef/So that $800,000 goes unfunded.
Atkins/Those projects in 05 and 06.
Champion/In 02.
Lehman/02 goes to 04, 03 goes to 05 whatever.
Atkins/Okay but that project that's in 05 and that project that is in 06 goes offthe plan.
Lehman/Goes into unfunded.
Kanner/Right 04 we had $1.197 million and that's going to be moving to 06.
Atkins/That's the big one, right, you got it.
Lehman/Right.
Atkins/Now I'm going to have to check all of that out because as we go through it so I
understand what you want.
Lehman/Does the Council concur with that?
O'Donnell/I think it's fine.
Vanderhoef/I think we have to.
Lehman/Okay.
Atkins/We will not jeopardize obviously.
Lehman/No, no, no, and we do not want you to. The next one Steve your going to have
to figure out, you tell us how we're going to get, well first I think we need to look
at the time frame that we can reasonably expect to be able to design the fire
station, acquire the property and build it, and my guess is if we're anticipating
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Scott Boulevard to be completed by the end of next summer assuming a
reasonably favorable construction season.
Atkins/And land acquisition.
Lehman/Pardon.
Atkins/And some of the land acquisition (can't hear).
Lehman/Right but the very earliest I would assume we could start any sort of
construction would be in 04.
Atkins/Once you have designated the route there's not a problem with us beginning to
put the fire station in.
Lehman/Oh I'm, but your not going to, but would you build it before the road was done?
Atkins/Given the timing of the road it would appear that they could probably occur
simultaneously.
Lehman/Is it going to be on Scott Boulevard?
Atkins/That we do not know yet, that depends upon one of the property owners who
we're talking to.
Lehman/It could be interesting trying to construct while they're grading roads and
whatever trying to get (can't hear).
Atkins/Building of, no building off the roadside, we may not be able to use it, but Ernie
there are folks that say there's a road built up there now that we don't use.
O'Donnell/I think we're safe.
Atkins/(can't hear).
Vanderhoef/So the $100,000 your talking about in.
Atkins/Designed land.
Vm~derhoef/Design and land, okay.
Atkins/Right.
Davidson/Most of the sites that are being considered now are along the first phase of
Scott Boulevard projects.
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Lehman/Which is already well under construction.
Davidson/Yea so it should be pretty well be wrapped up by mid summer.
Atkins/I have a question for me and I will be candid, we can not afford staff unless your
willing to reduce staff somewhere else.
Champion/Well I am.
Atkins/Okay.
Champion/I mean you, I don't know.
Vanderhoef/Well we've already put six on.
Atkins/We already put six on now, we need at least three more.
Champion/See I'm asking you to find a way to staff that fire station, I, that' s just me, I'm
just one person.
Lehman/Can you find three people in three years?
Atkins/In three years.
Lehman/Well two at the.
Atkins/Well given the budget situation, let's put it this year, last year we budgeted that
we weren't going to have a severe decline in the rollback and guess what
happened. See the problem is that we can not predict our financing, we can not
even predict it a year at a time given the state regulations that are imposed on us.
Folks I don't mean to be hard guy about but I'm, unless your instructing me to do
so I have a little trouble getting rid of one employee and replacing with another
when I think the services are.
Vanderhoeff Over the next two years through attrition can you.
Champion/Instead of replacing an employee.
Lehman/It depends on how (can't hear).
Atkins/I can do whatever you instruct me to do, my problem is that we pick an employee
and we decide it's more important than this one and then.
Champion/Can't do that.
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Atkins/And that just hurts. What I personally, when I recommended what I
recommended on the thing, you know I knew I wouldn't be very popular but there
just simply isn't the money unless we're really going to begin to strap ourselves
and a lot of things are going to the by and I think that involves other employees
and I've been through that before and that's not a pleasant experience.
O'Donnell/I'm not ready to do that I don't think.
Lehman/Where do you anticipate building the fire station?
Atkins/Don't know yet.
Lehman/You don't show us within the funded.
Atkins/Oh we can't staff it, No, I'm not showing it being built it's funded and built.
Vanderhoef/What's the cost on that I've forgotten.
Lehman/A million dollars.
Franklin/A million dollars.
Atkins/A million dollars, that eclipse to, Dee that's every, that should do everything, that
should get a pumper in there and do everything.
Vanderhoef/Oh a pumper too.
Atkins/Yea, I can't imagine a million dollar fire station.
Champion/I don't know I just think it's I don't know I think fire and police and water are
really important and our whole premise of building First Avenue and Scott was
for safety out there.
Atkins/Well one of the questions I was going to pose to you, sort of one of the final
questions when we wrap up the budget is that we have a declining cash position, I
heard you say on day one you wouldn't accept that and your going to have to give
me some instructions on just to keep current we're going to have to do something,
and you want to add more staff on top of it.
Champion/I don't want to add staff.
Atkins/If you want to open a fire station you have to.
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Lehman/I don't believe that we're going to resolve the discussion on the fire station in if
we were here till midnight, Steve I think that's something your going to have to
really take a look at.
Atkins/All right.
Lehman/Obviously I believe there's a.
Atkins/I hear your desire to (can't hear) sooner than later.
Lehman/Sooner rather than later, we don't know how to do it, I don't know that you do
either but it's going to be in your lap.
Atkins/And I'm not sure now.
O'Donnell/Are we going to go at what point we're going to go after the land acquisition?
Champion/Oh as soon as possible.
Atkins/Mike I really believe we should buy the land and just say we own it.
Champion/Before it's developed, people have to know that there's going to be a fire
station there.
Davidson/And we're still designing the station too for whenever you decide.
Atkins/I want it rolled up and on the shelf so when things, we go right away.
Champion/Right, right.
Karmer/Steve.
Atkins/Yes sir.
Kanner/The three required, we had the fire fighters, nine fire fighters requested, then we
have three other positions, those are that they requested that the fire department
request that those aren't contingent on the fire station?
Atkins/No, there are three positions that were for Inspection, Public Education, there
were six positions that they wanted to staff the rescue unit on a full time basis and
three more to open the fire station that I think is all of them, does that sound right?
O'Dormell/Are we still talking the collaborative thing?
Atkins/Yea.
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Vanderhoef/They ask for even more.
Atkins/Yea, they want more, it was an addition to.
Karmer/They wanted even more that they didn't write down. Well yea one of the things
that I.
Vanderhoef/Well some of them.
Kanner/Well there's three extra besides the new fire station or six, one of the things that
I've heard from the fire fighters is that with the new laws, OSHA laws and that
you have to wait until you have a second person and those minutes can be critical.
Atkins/Okay well that's from their perspective. Andy has a policy and OSHA works this
way that at the scene we have two in and two out, our pumper runs with three, on
a structure fire we dispatch two pumpers, we have six people on scene, under
OSHA people are not basically not allowed to go into the building without two
waiting outside, we believe we have that covered.
Karmer/Well I just wonder, it seems to me that without the new fire station we have to
think of a couple more fire fighters to help that, my understanding is that
overtime, it's difficult pulling in a lot of overtime to get people to meet those
standards.
Atkins/I don't, again not knowing who told you that I don't agree with that at all, we
have it covered, and our overtime runs, I mean it's going to fluctuate, more often
with injury than anything.
Champion/Right of course the injuries.
Pfab/I may have missed something here, what about, no just because I wasn't here. What
about the station, are we to include the station down on by?
Atkins/Lower Muscatine.
Pfab/Is that?
Atkins/That's still in the budget and that's still approved.
Pfab/That's going to go.
Atkins/Unless you say otherwise.
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Pfab/Yea I mean I think that's, that almost gets to be critical, I mean that's, it's not a
huge amount of money but.
Atkins/No it's not but that station does need renovation.
Pfab/That desperately needs something.
O'Donnell/Steve at one time we were talking about a collaborative effort with Johnson
County Ambulance.
Atkins/Yes.
O'Donnell/Is that still in?
Atkins/Right now the issue of the ambulance rest with the County, if they wish to see
something done other than what they're doing right now, it's really very much
their move. We're not in a position to take over, we certainly have, we certainly
supplement the response, in fact we have I believe an excellent EMS response
because we do dispatch, police, a fire crew as well as the ambulance. So in theory
we put at least six people on the scene when someone's in an EMS emergency.
Pfab/Is that a duplication of what (can't hear).
Champion/Not if your the one having a heart attack.
Atkins/Yea my point is that yea, if I'm laying at the bottom of the steps with a broken
whatever, I want the whole fire department there, that's the way I feel.
Pfab/I just want to say, no, no, but I mean collaborating is there?
Atkins/They are on duty and available for service, we should dispatch them.
Pfab/Okay, all right.
Davidson/Irvin our people typically get their first because they're closer, they stabilize
the person until the ambulance gets there.
Atkins/Our firefighters are EMT trained.
Pfab/So then when the ambulance people then.
Davidson/They take over when they get there, and the strategic plan you'll see in the next
few months does include at some future time as Steve alluded to discussion
between the County and the City of Iowa City assuming that and the fire
department here.
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Pfab/Okay, all right, no, I just, no that's fine, I wasn't criticizing it I was just asked for an
explanation.
Atkins/You know Irvin it's a common question and folks say it's more efficient to do
this, no it is not, (can't hear).
(All talking)
Atkins/I'm not getting on your case but I will tell people we want our best trained people
there when we've got an EMS emergency and that's what we do and we want
them now.
Lehman/Steve what's your next item on the list?
Atkins/Traffic calming.
O'Donnell/Never again.
Champion/I don't ever want to deal with traffic calming again.
Vanderhoef/I think it can be better used in other traffic ways.
Pfab/It's a great joke but I think it does has it's place though.
Kanner/I don't think it's a joke, I think it works, I think that it's something that's needed
to control.
Pfab/What I'm concerned about is there's a place where there was just a bad accident
down south here on was it Kirkwood but that wasn't what it was, they cut across
by.
Franklin/Highland.
Atkins/Highland.
Pfab/Highland. Is there any reason why we can't put stop signs there?
Atkins/Oh I don't know.
Pfab/No, no, is there, I mean.
Atkins/ You know it's tough to stop a drunk driving 60 miles an hour whether you've got
stop signs or not.
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Davidson/What happened the other night whether there were stop signs or not wouldn't
have made any difference.
Atkins/It wouldn't have made any difference on this one.
Pfab/But is that?
Champion/You know we're suppose to be discussing budget here and not solutions to
(can't hear).
Pfab/Well you brought up the thing of traffic calming and I was following.
Lehman/All right folks, traffic calming appears each year in the budget.
Atkins/At $25,000.
Lehman/And not only is it a budget item I suspect if we choose to remove it from the
budget we are also making somewhat of a policy statement although I don't know
that we're telling people we don't care about the problem.
Atkins/I don't want to tell you what to do but is a decision of some consequence.
Lehman/Yea I think it's (can't hear).
Atkins/It's not a lot of money but it's a decision of some consequence.
Davidson/IfI could just add for you to discuss, we probably distribute I would say maybe
one a month we get a request about the traffic calming program and we distribute
a brochure, and 98 percent of them you never even hear about them because you
have the set process, it never gets to the point of where a proposal gets to you so I
think in that respect I think it's useful having it just so there are some rules.
Champion/Okay I give up you can have it.
Lehman/Now we didn't say that, he didn't say that it should be funded.
Atkins/And the second thing I think about traffic calming, I don't know of what
percentage, a good piece of the time it's one person who's got a real pain in the
neck traffic issue they want solved for them.
Davidson/And one other thing Connie we typically with the traffic calming program
don't come near using this amount of money, I mean I think most years we might
use $6,000 to $8,000. You know Lexington Avenue, that was our only project
last year and that was about $6,000.
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Champion/Oh so maybe we could just reduce it to be more realistic.
Lehman/Could we reduce it?
O'Donnell/Could we reduce it?
Atkins/To $10,000 a year?
Lehman/Yes.
Davidson/That's going to allow you to do about one project a year, one and a half.
Lehman/Which is less than we've done.
Atkins/Could you look up and tell me how that's funded, is that road use? It is road use.
Okay.
Vanderhoef/We've got several on.
Pfab/What are the pros and cons?
O'Donnell/$10,000.
Davidson/Well I mean similar to your fire apparatus discussion if we end up in a
situation where we're going to need 12 or 14 we'll just come to you and you'll
discuss it and decide if you want to do it.
Lehman/Right.
Atkins/It is road use, again if you maintain a reasonable road use tax reserve you have
the ability to respond to several of these things.
Champion/Right.
Lehman/Is it?
Atkins/Am I hearing that you want to change it from $25,000 to $10,0007
Franklin/You still want us to undertake the traffic calming program?
Pfab/Yes.
Franklin/But you do not want to put the financial resources into.
Champion/You've never spent $10,000.
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Lehman/We've never spent it.
Franklin/Okay, I just wanted to make clear, but you still want to go through that (can't
hear).
Davidson/We may have spent $10,000 but we've never spent $25,000, I think when we
did the three traffic circles on College and Washington, the total might have come
to $10,000 or $12,000 on that.
O'Donnell/Don't you think that just reducing it is better than elimination?
Davidson/I would prefer to see that, yes.
Lehman/Elimination is a whole another discussion which I don't think we're prepared to
do right now.
Pfab/And I think from what your saying it's a great pressure relief way for someone
who's really hot and bothered about it.
Davidson/It gives us some roles Irvin yea.
Civic Center
Lehman/All right, the next item on the list is, I think there is an item that appears and
Steve I think you probably need to tell us what it is, $50,000 per year I think
that's maintenance and etc.
Atkins/Yes, every year, well it's a little more than that, I'd like, we budget $50,000 a
year, this building is 40 years old, we occasionally have certain employee needs,
structurally, that allows a sort of a lump sump of money, that door needs to be
widened, it needs to have a new handicapped accessible switch put it in, whatever,
that allows us to respond to those immediately. Them is no magic to $50,000.
O'Donnell/What did we spend last year?
Atkins/We probably a good big, yea probably close to that, yea we had some things we
had to do, yea.
Pfab/In the past few years what kind of?
Atkins/Oh we spend in the neighborhood, I mean we spend in the $25,000 to $50,000.
Like Karin folks we show as a separate folks we show as a separate project, for
example we're going to be moving into what used to be cable, now in that case
that's a much more elaborate.
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Lehman/That's a remodel.
Atkins/That's a remodel yea but it does allow us the flexibility to do, I'm trying to think
of some projects we may have done recently.
Lehman/How would you do it without this line item?
Atkins/I wouldn't, I need a line item.
Lehman/How did you do it before you had a line item?
Atkins/What, I didn't do it, we need a line item that allows us, now if you think $50,000
is too much personally I think (can't hear).
Lehman/Well I can't imagine you can do it for $50,000.
Vanderhoef/Either that an every other year.
Pfab/No, it's.
Atkins/It's just if I have an employee that has some unique needs.
Champion/You can meet those needs with no problem.
Atkins/I want to be able to meet them immediately.
O'Donnell/I think that's fairly important to leave in there.
Lehman/I think it is as well.
Atkins/If it doesn't get spent folks.
Champion/It goes into the reserve.
Atkins/It moves, yes it does, it moves over to the next year.
Champion/Maybe we'll give you $100,000 a year.
Vanderhoef/Watch out they'll spend out.
Pfab/Is $40,000 a workable number?
O'Donnell/No, $50,000.
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Champion/Just leave it at $50,000.
Atkins/Irvin it's $50,000 because it's been $50,000 as long as I can remember.
Lehman/Is the Council comfortable with leaving it $50,000? All right leave it there.
Open Space/Parkland
Lehman/The next item is a line item of $50,000 for acquisition.
Atkins/There's two of these here one's parkland and one's open space.
O'Donnell/$100,000 total.
Vanderhoef/One is development and one is pumhase.
O'Dormell/(Can't hear) Terry what do you mean?
Trueblood/Pardon me, I'm sorry I didn't hear your question.
O'Donnell/What kind of tree?
Pfab/Oh what you name it.
Lehman/The question is there are two line items in the budget for park land one being
open or acquisition of open space the other one is for development, and the
question was what is development?
Trueblood/Development, the original intent of development which has kind of changed a
bit to some extent over the years was that with the passage of the neighborhood
open space ordinance was to have some certain amount of money on the books
every year so that as a piece of park land was obtained that some development
could go into it almost immediately if necessary.
O'Donnell/Okay so if we take out open space acquisition, those two work hand in hand
with?
Lehman/No.
Davidson/No, not necessarily, no and to continue on with the development question of it
though what it has been used more for actually is for some park projects that may
have run short on money for like, for example two that come to mind are Kiwanis
Park and Hunters Run Park where we had a specific amount budgeted for the
development of those and may have run a little short on being able to finish up the
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project so we had that money to fall back on. Another example if you will, we
obtained a lot, pumhased a lot what does Teg change in to? Aber, and that was to
accommodate an access trail head so to speak for the Willow Creek Trail, because
once that trail was built and the new houses came in there people started
complaining about trail users cutting through their yard. And so we bought a lot
there and then in the upcoming year we'll be constructing the trail to go through
and connect up and it would come out of that money.
O'Donnell/But again is that acquisition or is that?
Trueblood/No, well the first part was acquisition, the constructing the trail through there
and whatever other little improvements we need to make would be the
development. Now the acquisition part, that's the park land acquisition fund that
was started up years ago before my time here. My understanding was that the
initial funding source was due to some sale of land that was decided.
Atkins/Central Junior High.
Trueblood/Pardon me.
Atkins/Central Junior High was sold.
Trueblood/Yea Central Junior High and then after that for quite a number of years a
certain pementage of the hotel/motel tax went into that fund but that stopped three
or four years ago maybe something like that so now the funding that is there,
there's no new source other than the interest that goes into that. The reason it
shows on an annual basis is just to show that that money is there but it's a special
fund set aside for acquisition purposes.
O'Donnell/I didn't see in here though Terry we've got (can't hear) Parks Annual
Improvement $65,000, I think part of that could have been covered under that and
then playground equipment replacement $75,000.
Trueblood/Right.
O'Donnell/I'm just in favor of reducing or eliminating the first (can't hear).
Pfab/I'm not in favor of it is because I think the parkland needs are there.
O'Donnell/But we have more parks now Irvin that we can take care of.
Pfab/Well (can't hear).
Champion/How much money is that fund now just roughly?
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Trueblood/About $300,000.
Champion/And since we're bounding for it anyway if we really needed to buy new park
land we could bond for it and buy it because we're already bonded for this so I
think the parkland acquisition fund I'm really in favor of getting rid of, not any
maintenance or any playground or replacement equipment, I'm not willing to get
rid of any of that.
Lehman/I agree Connie I think that's exactly right, if we find a piece of property, or the
Benton Street park we find that we need to add, you recommend that we feel it's a
wonderful idea to add to that park and it's going to cost $287,000 obviously we're
probably going to go ahead and figure out a way that we can do that but to bond
every year for $50,000 to put it into a fund without a specific purpose appears to
me not to be a good idea.
Trueblood/Now are you talking about acquisition?
Lehman/Acquisition, I don't have any problem with the rest.
Champion/Acquisition.
Trueblood/We're not bonded.
(Stop in the tape).
Mansfield/Open space land acquisition is actually funded from the parkland acquisition
fund.
Atkins/Fund okay.
Mansfield/Which is the hotel/motel tax and the.
Atkins/Used to be right.
Vanderhoef/And so we're not bonding for that $50,000.
Mansfield/We're not bonding for that one but we are bonding for the parkland
development.
Tmeblood/For the parkland development.
Kanner/But also aren't we putting funds from developers in lieu of dedicating space into
that fund?
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Tmeblood/On occasion yes but most of the time the land is accepted as opposed to the
funds.
Kanner/What do we get annually from the funds in lieu of land acquisition?
Trueblood/You know there isn't a specific amount annually.
Kanner/What does it average out to just a rough figure?
Trueblood/I think if we get $10,000 I'm probably high.
Vanderhoef/But we have to also be careful, the money we get in lieu of land must have
annexes to the area where it is obtained.
Franklin/Right.
Vanderhoeff So if you did anything with those, each one of those has to have a little fund
of their own, and each one of those could be used for development of that
neighborhood park.
Trueblood/It has to be used for either development or acquisition, it can't be used for
maintenance kinds of things.
Champion/So that park acquisition money though is, we're not, it doesn't save us
anything is that what your saying?
Vanderhoef/That's right.
Atkins/Well unless you wish to, I mean you can change the definition of the parkland
acquisition fund to.
O'Donnell/Use for something else.
Atkins/Really pretty much anything you want, that's your call.
Pfab/It's reserves also right?
Atkins/No, no, it's restricted now by policy.
Lehman/But I don't understand why we show it if we're taking out of one pocket and
putting it in the other it makes no difference whatsoever in the budget. We're
taking it out a reserve fund and showing it as acquisition which we're not going to
use unless we need it and then we're going to leave it where it was to start with.
Atkins/And that's what's called a budget.
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Lehman/I'm well aware of that but I don't see.
Atkins/It's an indication of your willingness to do that.
Lehman/Isn't it our ability at any time to take money out of the park land funds?
Atkins/Yes.
Lehman/So what's the purpose of showing a $50,000 a year and we're not going to do it
unless we want to do it?
Atkins/Well then based on that Ernie what we'll do is we'll not show anything in the
budget and (can't hear).
Lehman/No, that's an entirely different situation because money is there.
Vanderhoef/The $50,000 showing it in the $17 million for this year.
Atkins/Yep, yep.
Vanderhoef/We are not bonding for that piece so what we're saying is $50,000 less than
$17,780,000.
Atkins/That's a way to look at it.
O'Donnell/Steve we can reallocate both of these land acquisitions.
Atkins/Yes.
O'Donnell/And we are bonding for parkland development.
Atkins/Yes you do that, now remember, don't think of a bond issue as $50,000, think of
a bond issue as Public Art for $50,000, $2 million for this, something, we total it
and then they're all spelled out in the official statement a piece of which, a little
piece is for park land development.
Trueblood/With regard to the acquisition fund I would just remind the Council that a few
years ago when the hotel/motel tax quit going into that fund, there was a
commitment made to the Park and Recreation Cormmission that the park land
acquisition fund would stay there for park land acquisition purposes and that when
that was gone it would go through just what you said Ernie through, if there's a
piece of property the Commission wants come to Council and go through the
regular process of GO bonds.
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O'Donnell/I think that's (can't hear).
Lehman/But this would have no affect on the budget whatsoever in removing that park
land acquisition number.
Kanner/Well Ernie I think it says.
Atkins/It's chosen as an expense item, sure it has an affect on.
Kanner/It shows a commitment, we have a commitment that Iowa City is known for it's
parks and we're going to do what we can to continue that tradition. I think that's
what that $50,000 says, we want to make that commitment, your either for that or
your not for it and if you want to take that out then you show that your not for
that commitment I think.
Lehman/I don't think that's true.
O'Dormell/(Can't hear) at all it's a matter of.
(All talking)
Karmer/I think that's part of it Emie.
Lehman/Well it is for you it isn't for me okay. I don't see it being necessary.
Kanner/(can't hear).
Lehman/It shows up for five years but I don't want to belabor the issue.
Pfab/I want to ask Terry something ifI can. Okay does that, does the fact that it's there
does that make it, put you in position to take care, to move on opportunities that
come up any quicker, any better? Does it give you a chance to if you have to
move?
Trueblood/Sure it does in the sense that, first of all, all acquisitions have to be approved
by you folks so we have to come to you for that but it makes it quicker and easier
in the sense that we come to you and we say we'd like to buy this piece of
property for $50,000 and we'd like to take it out of the acquisition fund and you
know the money's already there and you say okay fine. If you so far you have
anyway, but if it isn't there you know and you have to consider okay well we need
to come up with GO bonds for this so I'm not so sure.
Pfab/I'm going to support leaving it as it is.
Lehman/Leave it alone.
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Champion/Leave it alone.
O'Donnell/Is there $300,000 in the acquisition fund right now (can't hear)?
Trueblood/It's approximately that much I believe.
Lehman/I don't see where it does anything, leave it alone.
Champion/No, I'm willing to leave it alone now.
Waterworks Park
Lehman/All right the next item is Waterworks Park.
Trueblood/Was there, if I could was there, what about the development part of it?
Champion/Oh you need, you've got to have that.
(A few talking)
Lehman/I think we've got to leave that.
Pfab/Leave as is.
O'Donnell/Hey fine I just work here.
Pfab/Eats cookies too.
Tmeblood/That's my line.
Atkins/Waterworks Park is your next one.
Lehman/I have a question for, I think it's for Rick and you Chuck, and this probably
comes from the time that I spent living on a farm. My, I have a little concern with
the Waterworks Park, I happen to think that's a magnificent piece of property and
I think some day it's going to be a park that this community will be very, very
proud of. I also think it's a project that once we start is almost bigger than we are
because I think it's going to be so popular and so well liked by the community,
very open, it's a way from the city basically because the Interstate kind of
separates it, the river on one side, no development allowed. I mean it's going to
be a very, very park. I'm very reluctant to spend any money in that facility to
make it more user friendly until we can afford to do what we want to do. To me
building picnic tables and encouraging people to come out there which is
wonderful will do just that and then we're going to get requests for all kinds of
other things. Couldn't we preserve what we have out there by disking that and
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basically covering that area with brome grass which is a tremendous cover crop, it
seeds itself, it prevents erosion, it's wonderful for cover, it's not unattractive, until
such time that we have the money to go in and do the sorts of things that we'd like
to do to make a park out of it?
O'Donnell/Emie I don't disagree with you on that. Can I just say one thing before you
do that?
Lehman/Yea I just want their comment.
O'Donnell/All right just let me add something to it. And I agree with you that we don't
have the money to do it now but would it not save us time down the road and you
know we are going to do this, some of the plantings now that are going to take
two to three years to mature could we do that and at least keep that up with the
scale with have it somewhat ready by the time we open the trail.
Pfab/I have a question.
Lehman/Well I'd like to have an answer first, okay, what's your?
Schmadeke/We have a cover crop on there now.
Lehman/We do okay, so we're not worried about erosion.
Schmadeke/Weeds are coming up as well so that's going to be a problem over time.
Pfab/Is any of that natural prairie grass over there?
Lehman/No.
O'Donnell/Have we planted natural prairie grass?
Champion/What would it cost to plant it Terry?
Trueblood/Funny you should ask. I do have a bit ora proposal I guess you might say for
this project combined with another one that I'm almost hesitant to bring up in
view of all the conversation but I have a job to do. Chuck and I have some real
concerns about delaying this project, probably more so me than Chuck but if I'm
going to go down I'm going to bring somebody with me. But at any rate the
Phase One, as we may have explained before the $250,000 budgeted this fiscal
year is for primarily Chuck will refer to as structural elements, like the concrete
trails, finishing those up, the parking lot at the northeast edge of the property to
keep people away from the plant that want to get in there and access the park so
forth. And again because I have a job to do I'll just remind you that this is the
Parks and Recreation Commission's number one priority but what I'd like to
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propose that we retain that funding, to go ahead and finish up the structural
elements or maybe even cut back on those a little bit you know to, there's a couple
of park shelters in it, maybe we wouldn't do that, that kind of thing. But there's
also another $200,000 item in this fiscal years budget and that's for the
development of the Miller-Orchard Neighborhood Park. You all got an e-mail
earlier today I don't know if you've seen it or not, and I responded to that e-mail
right away and I hadn't heard anything back at the time that I came over here but
there is one important clarification that needs to be made because the e-mail
mentioned that the neighborhood would like to see the area cleaned up and maybe
a couple of tables and benches put in there and playground equipment. Well the
playground is exactly what the neighborhood didn't want put in there, their
concern is they don't want kids running from the school across Benton Street to
the park and anything that would attract them to that. And my recollection and
Marcia Klingaman's and Terry Robinson's we were all there at the meeting, was
we absolutely agree that we made a commitment to go in there and clean up the
area and make it into a nice little passive neighborhood park for the time being.
That they really didn't want to see any major park development occur unless or
until we can obtain two more acres of park land immediately to the east and as
you know especially Ernie that's been fruitless to this point so it's not likely to
happen in the near future. My proposal would be that we go ahead and keep that
commitment in house to spiffy up the area, take out dead trees, and do some
mowing and put in a couple benches, whatever so it can be a little passive
neighborhood park but to use that $200,000 on the Waterworks park aspect along
with the $250,000 so we can do the structural elements, begin the planting of all
the prairie grasses and wildflowers to go in there because that's going to take three
to five years before you really even see that mature. And that way we can get that
done immediately after the structural elements are done so it can begin to take
place and I don't want to mislead you, it doesn't mean that there will be no
maintenance efforts needed out them, of course there will be, but it would be far
less than having for us or Chuck's folks or a contractor whomever to go out there
and mow you know 150 or 200 acres of weeds on occasion basis or brom grass
whatever the case may be. But anyway that's something that we think makes a lot
of sense and I did run this by the Commission via e-mail just yesterday and asked
them to get back to me if any of our Commissioners had a problem with this
proposal. And I only heard back from three and they were all three favorable.
Lehman/What do we tell the public after a year or two and because I think this is going to
be a very popular park, you've got a pond out there, we've got all kinds of things,
and they want this trail done between the park and the Peninsula which is going to
cost us $1.5 million dollars and we don't have the money to do it. I mean I think
we are creating a demand for something that is very nice and very beautiful but
I'm not sure we're not acting in our own best interest.
Trueblood/Well I guess you know from my perspective I would hope we are creating a
demand, or not a demand but an interest in it, but it's just like any other project I
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guess you have the interest in there and you tell folks yea that's on the plan but we
don't have the money for it now, it's going to have to wait it's turn.
Pfab/And you never know.
Vanderhoef/Two unfunded projects out there for Waterworks Park plus this takes us over
$2 million dollars to do that, that total project if you go.
Trueblood/You mean including the trail down to the Peninsula everything, yea.
Vanderhoef/Well Phase Two is $580,000 and then the Waterworks to Peninsula is listed
at $1.2 million and if we're talking 4.5 or $450,000 to do that project right now.
Tmeblood/But to spend the $450,000 on it now, well actually it would be $550,000
counting the Butler House portion of it which has some gTant money in it would
get us we believe to the point where we wouldn't even have to consider any more
development in the next few years but to do nothing right now, if that money was
pulled out and then on the proposed plan right now we would be sitting waiting
for at least five years before we did anything with the property.
Lehman/Where does Miller-Orchard end up if we take the money out, I mean it doesn't
anywhere in the funded years?
Trueblood/It's in FY02.
Lehman/I know that but if we take it out where would you put it? As soon as that
southeast plan is done, that park has got to be a very, very, very high priority for
the city I believe because of the length of time those folks have waited to get it.
Franklin/I think the difficulty Ernie has been getting consensus within the neighborhood
as to what they wanted to have done t here, we have probably worked with them
for two years to try to decide what they wanted because this money was allocated
and they have not come to consensus as I understand it on what the neighborhood
wants there and they have been told that decide or we're going to put it someplace
else.
Lehman/Well I understand that but if.
(END OF 02-12, SIDE TWO)
Lehman/But there may be a better sense as to how that park is going to be, how it's going
to be laid out and maybe there.
Franklin/You know I don't know, I don't know because one of the issues they're going to
be wrestling with that is makes the park almost become insignificant is the
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development of the land around it, that whole Miller, Harlocke-Weeber thing. So
I'm not sure how much attention really is going to be focused on the development
of the park and I know that Terry and Marcia have worked really hard with these
folks over the last year or so.
Lehman/But I think.
(A few talking)
Franklin/No southwest, he means southwest.
Lehman/I'm sorry, but then, Terry what your telling me is that you would put Miller-
Orchard into the unfunded years?
Trueblood/Yes that's correct.
Lehman/Okay.
Kanner/Your saying take the $200,000 that's budgeted for this year and put it into
Waterworks?
Trueblood/That would be my proposal, yes.
Kanner/And where is, is Benton Miller Orchard on the Parks and Recreation's
Commission list at all?
Trueblood/No but they had not included any FY02 projects on their priority list because
those were already, it was already considered to be funded.
Kanner/It had been a priority hadn't it?
Trueblood/The Miller Orchard Park was a priority, that's very true and at the time it was
acquired the neighborhood was certainly 100 percent behind it. Early indications
were they would like to see it developed right away but after meeting with the
neighborhood association they don't want to see major development in it right
away until we can acquire land to the east which would take it down to Miller
Street or Miller Avenue whatever it is.
O'Donnell/Did you say we would be able to do some improvement?
Trueblood/Oh yea, we can handle that in house with a little assistance from that park
land development money.
Champion/Now wait a minute now Terry, don't get, let me ask you something else now.
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Pfab/We saved you from your own problems.
Champion/So we can postpone the $200,000 from the Benton Street park, that little park
on Benton Street that's the one your talking about, okay, but then you want to add
it to the Waterworks Park so you still want $550,000 out of 02, is that what you
said?
Trueblood/That's correct.
Champion/How would you settle for just $250,000, $200,000 of the Miller Omhard
money and $50,000?
Trueblood/Well you know, of course.
Champion/What could you do for that?
Trueblood/Were always most pleased to accept anything the City Council wants to do.
Champion/Oh your so wonderful but I mean what can you do for $250,000?
Trueblood/I can't say that with a straight face but. Well if we had $250,000 total?
Champion/Yes.
Tmeblood/We would have to actually cut back on the plans that Chuck has been working
on because that's $350,000 including the Butler house part of it, actually about
$300,00O.
(Can't hear).
Trueblood/No I know but he's including it in the whole plan.
Champion/I thought the thing with the Butler house is they don't want any parking up by
the Butler house and they don't want anything around the Butler house, I thought
that's what (can't hear).
Davidson/That's what you approved yesterday at JCCOG, that's the parking lot element
of it which is moved from the Butler house down to the lower area.
Champion/Oh down.
Davidson/This is not.
Pfab/The house is still in mothballs.
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Trueblood/This is not Butler House development, no. But it's the parking lot and isn't
there a little trail going up to it?
Vanderhoef/Two little trails.
Pfab/Which hooks them, makes a nice.
(All talking).
Champion/Let me ask you, I've got another question okay the combining of all this park
money, trail money. The Iowa River Power Dam improvement $3.2 million
dollars. Now the dam is a water money right?
Schmadeke/Right.
Champion/Okay how much of that is trail money over that dam?
Lehman/$1.2 something.
Vanderhoef/So divide it up by Coralville, Iowa City and the grant money.
Pfab/Well is that the trail?
(All talking)
Champion/It's the trail over the top of the dam.
Pfab/Oh, okay that's Coralville, isn't Coralville?
Champion/No.
Vanderhoef/There's grant money into that too.
O'Malley/There's $1.2 GO portion, I'm not sure what that constructs.
Champion/Yea, that's what I, that's the question that I'm asking (can't hear).
Pfab/I thought it was set over the top.
Champion/$1.2 million is a lot of money for a trail over a top of a bridge.
Pfab/Over here at the railroad.
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Lehman/Yea but the problem guys is if you don't build it at the same time as you do the
dam instead of $1.2 million you spend $1.6.
Davidson/And remember Connie what Rick said at the last meeting we had to expand
that quite a bit.
Champion/Right I don't like the answer.
Pfab/Next question.
Vanderhoef/Come up with a new choice of answers.
O'Donnell/We'd better make a decision.
Lehman/Well let's talk about.
Champion/$250,000 I'm willing to do.
Pfab/! would support what the proposition that Terry is laying out, I think it makes sense
when you look at it, step back a little, it looks like it's the right way to do.
Champion/But we could give them $350,000 instead of (can't hear).
Kanner/Take $200,000 from Benton Miller Orchard?
Pfab/Right and then add, so you can end up so you can take care of that park as it's
needed to put in the preliminary work and whatever has to be done and start
putting some plantings in eventually and go on.
Kanner/Irvin you kept talking about earlier about that area really needs support of the city
and now we're taking it away, I see e-mail's that.
Pfab/Which area?
Vanderhoef/Miller Orchard.
Kanner/Southwest area.
Pfab/Well they don't want to build because they don't want the kids running across the
street and getting killed.
Kanner/I know but what I read from Ruth Baker is she still wants the money and the
support there for the park.
Pfab/Well sure she doesn't have any kids.
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(can't hear).
Vanderhoef/Her grandkids.
Champion/Who else has an opinion of this park money?
Vanderhoef/I still am inclined to go as far as we can go on the Highway 6 trail if we have
any park money from Weeber Orchard that is not going to be used because they're
choosing not to use it. I think we need a people mover, I think we need to use our
dollars that impects the most people and the most safety issues and I'm just not in
favor of getting started with at the Waterworks Park and I think Ernie's right that
if we get a trail head put in there with a parking lot, the next thing we'll know is
why aren't the trails there, they're going to create their own trails up there.
Trueblood/No trails would be there.
Vanderhoef/Well just the little piece out by the road, not.
Tmeblood/No, no.
Atkins/Terry do you want the map?
Pfab/My idea is if you let that deteriorate your going to end up spending a lot more
money.
Lehman/It can't deteriorate because you don't have anything there.
Pfab/Yes it can.
Lehman/What's going to deteriorate?
Pfab/It.just sits there.
O'Donnell/(Can't hear).
Lehman/Sits there and vegetates, all growing, growing grass.
Pfab/Well it's, you grow weeds, then you have to chop them off and you don't have no
chance to get prairie grass started.
Champion/The only problem, I have (can't hear), I have a real problem with taking away
all of the money because it seems like we're always picking apart the priorities of
the Park Commission.
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Pfab/Which do a great job.
Lehman/All right, go ahead Terry.
Trueblood/Chuck, first of all this was an early concept plan for Waterworks Park, this is
still almost exactly the area proposed for the parking lot up in there right?
Schmadeke/That's right.
Trueblood/And are these trails and service roads essentially accurate as depicted on here?
Schmadeke/Yes they are.
Lehman/Are they in place now?
Schmadeke/The service roads are in place.
Lehman/Okay thank you.
Trueblood/See from the beginning.
Vanderhoef/(Can't hear) where?
Tmeblood/See from the beginning of this plan the hard surface trails were going to be
the services roads and then double as trails. So those are the trails that are going
to be in there. The nature trails, crashed limestone or whatever is not a part of the
proposal at this time. So this part of the $350,000 would bring this out to connect
in with the new trail system that the County put in going out North Dubuque
Street going out to the Reservoir and North Liberty out in that direction. This
parking would get the public away from the plant so that we hopefully wouldn't
have any public parking up here other than the people that are there to visit the
plant.
Lehman/Let me stop you just a moment, what's the problem with them parking at the
plant?
Schmadeke/You have security at the plant site.
Pfab/Have the National Guard (can't hear).
Trueblood/Also I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong Chuck, but I don't think that the
parking at the plant then gives people access to a trail, is that right or not?
Schmadeke/It will give them access to the internal service road there to the west of the
plant, that trail around the pond and the service road will be built.
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Champion/I mean are you talking about a gravel parking lot or a paved parking lot?
Lehman/No, no.
Trueblood/No, it would be paved or concrete.
Champion/So if we just put a gravel parking lot there could you do that with the
$250,000?
Trueblood/Technically that's a violation of city code I believe.
Lehman/Oh by the way.
Champion/We have a sign on our parking ramp that also violates a city code?
O'Donnell/(Can't hear) river rock isn't it? Can't you have?
Trueblood/Either Karin or Chuck that answer that.
Lehman/Go ahead and finish what your.
Trueblood/Well essentially I just wanted to show you where the parking is and the fact
that the hard surface trail system would already be almost in place except for the
connection out here right?
Lehman/Hard surface is in place now is that correct?
Pfab/Right.
Trueblood/Except for a place to get into.
Lehman/Except for the parking lot and an access to the parking lot. What else are you
talking about doing?
Trueblood/Well access to the trail up here too.
Lehman/Okay so you've got a parking lot, access, and you've got a little hook up? What
else are we talking about doing with $550,0007
Trueblood/Well there would be an accessible trail going up to the Butler house.
Lehman/Which is, and the Butler house there's nothing there to worry about now
because there's nothing to see.
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Trueblood/No but that's part of the grant money funded portion of it.
Lehman/Right.
Trueblood/That's not GO bonds.
Lehman/But why would, never mind.
Trueblood/Okay, there's a couple of park shelters included in the current plan right?
O'Donnell/You build it they will come.
(Can't hear).
Davidson/You have $48,000 in GO matching the $52,000 that went through JCCOG.
Lehman/I'm well aware of that but that's not enough to do anything with the Butler
house to speak of.
Davidson/No, correct.
Lehman/So we're building a trail to go up and look at a house that's in moth balls.
Davidson/Yea it'll, there will be some plaques up there that say what we hope to
eventually hope to do.
Lehman/Couldn't we put the plaques at the bottom of the hill without building the trail?
All right, go ahead.
Pfab/It'll be done this way you've got the grant money, otherwise you won't get the grant
money.
Champion/Well I don't know how much money can you afford?
Vanderhoef/Where are you planting?
Trueblood/Pardon me.
Vanderhoef/Where are you wanting to plant your?
Trueblood/All over.
Vanderhoef/Okay and that's all in the Phase I?
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Trueblood/Right now it's not, if we were to transfer the $200,000 over to that then it
would be.
Vanderhoef/So what is in Phase II that is in the next year?
Trueblood/Well there isn't anything until the unfunded list?
Vanderhoef/What's the phase?
Trueblood/Right now the Phase II would include the plantings and I don't recall what
else Chuck do you?
Schmadeke/That's it.
Vanderhoef/That's $550,000.
Trueblood/The plantings.
Schmadeke/Oh and the chipped trail along the river.
Trueblood/Oh yea the nature trails as we call them down along the river. I guess that's
about it.
Kanner/So Terry the $250,000 that's budgeted for this fiscal year 02 includes the
shelters, that's the main thing.
Trueblood/Well Chuck.
Kanner/And plus some prairie plantings, that's what it says in our book, it says with
prairie grasses, wild flowers, native trees.
Trueblood/That's the description for the whole project.
Kanner/No that's what it says for $250,000 for this fiscal year in our book, in our budget
book. Your saying that this description is wrong then.
Trueblood/Yes if that's what it says yes for Phase 1.
Mansfield/Steven, I believe that when we set up the CIP plan, Waterworks Park, the
$250,000 that you see is water, is designated as coming from the water fund and
because the access roads were doubling as the trail system to the parks we put it
into the Waterworks Park CIP. It could have just as easily sat within the Water
Plant construction account as the access roads. The $250,000 is water funding for
their access lines.
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Champion/I'm, what (can't hear)?
Schmadeke/That $250,000 scheduled for (can't hear).
Lehman/That $200,000.
Champion/(Can't hear).
Mansfield/Is water money.
Lehman/Yea but I think we talked to you tonight about telling you we can't do that
because we're talking about building an access to a trail and putting in a parking
lot and charging the water users, and sewer users for basically park improvements,
and I think we made it very clear when we started this project in 93 that we
wouldn't be doing recreation uses with revenues generated from water.
Champion/Right.
Trueblood/Keep in mind this access and parking lot, that's the Butler House project,
that's partially.
Davidson/Yea and match is GO.
Lehman/Yea I realize that but none of this is necessary for the operation of the water
plant, what we're talking about right now.
Davidson/The Butler House project stuff is not.
Lehman/But neither is the parking lot or the trails.
Davidson/That's the same thing, the same project.
Lehman/Okay, but the trails or whatever are park issues which certainly are wonderful
but they're not to be funded by water uses.
Davidson/Not the hard surface trails, those are the surface roads.
Vanderhoef/Access road.
Lehman/They're already there I understand that.
Kanner/So let me clarify something, we have $250,000 that's water revenue. Terry are
you talking about, aside from the Butler House that $100,000 that we've kind of,
if we can set that aside, your talking about then another approximately $400,000
of capital improvement?
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Champion/No.
Trueblood/No another $200,000.
O'Donnell/$200,000 from Miller Orchard.
Kanner/So you want to move $200,000 from Miller Orchard to do, what is going to do
beyond what this $250,000 water revenue bond is going to do?
Trueblood/All of the plantings, primarily prairie grasses and wildflowers.
Karmer/The question came up here originally because we thought the $250,000 was
something we could reduce as GO debt but that was GO debt, but that was a
mistake in ideas, it's not GO debt $250,000. So now the issue is it appears were
going to keep the $250,000 as water revenue bond money and now just the
question is just the $200,000 from Miller Omhard so it sort of shifted, the whole
discussion has shifted and that's where it seems a little confusing.
Lehman/Steven before, as far I'm concerned we will not shift that $250,000, I mean we
won't keep that from water revenues if it goes for parkland, it really has got to be
charged to parkland than come from GO.
Kanner/So there's two separate, so we should discuss it in two separate issues, there's
that issue if we want.
Lehman/I think that's an issue that we have really got to, we've told the public I think in
very in no uncertain terms, because this is a huge project and our water bills are
really very, very expensive that we would only do, work on this project necessary
for the production of water and pay for that with water revenue and that the park
land features and the things that are going to make this so valuable to the
community that are not necessary for the production of water would not be paid
for with water revenue.
Champion/The only problem, I mean I agree with you, but some of the disruptions of the
land from building a water plant would need to be planted and grated and all of
that.
Lehman/Oh yea.
Champion/I mean I think if we separate part of this out for water but not $250,000. So
that's the question I ask (can't hear).
(All talking)
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Tmeblood/Actually Chuck can address those issues better than I can as far as a lot of
these improvements as far as a lot of these improvements as I understand it are
there pretty much equally to help parkland development as much as water plant
operation.
Pfab/Is this a bad time?
Champion/Go, we'll close it.
O'Donnell/This is a great time to quit folks.
Pfab/I mean I don't know, I mean I don't know, I'm happy to stay.
Champion/Well Ernie has to go.
Lehman/I do have to.
Atkins/Okay, your next meeting is scheduled for the 29th at 8:00, we can pick this up at
that point if that's what you'd like.
Pfab/I think that might be a great idea.
Atkins/8:00 in the morning.
Vanderhoef/How about giving us breakdown of how much is Butler money?
Atkins/This one, yea we'll take care of that, yea I understand what you want.
Pfab/And the point I think we need to make.
Vanderhoef/Emie (can't hear).
Pfab/We have to have faith in the future, that's why people plant trees.
Atkins/Okay so what we'll do is we'll end it now, we'll pick this up, have the rest of the
list, we'll move through the other list that you identified during the routine review
and a couple of things that you'll need to think about. The electric power study,
that has to be discussed.
Champion/Oh right.
Atkins/We'll have some numbers for you on the old Wilson Building, be prepared for
that, and you need to give me some idea on how you want to handle the airport,
whether that's a meeting with you all, whether your just going to have them come
because the 29th you'll have Boards and Commissions that evening. Now.
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Vanderhoef/Before we leave let's decide that one. I think we need a meeting, is there
anybody else that.
Champion/With who?
Vanderhoef/With the airport.
Champion/Oh absolutely.
Vanderhoef/Okay could we start putting that together a date.
Atkins/Putting that together, that's fine, I'll set that up.
Vanderhoef/Putting that together, a date for the airport.
Atkins/Now that evening we're scheduled for Boards, Commissions and other folks, we
have an agenda, why don't you, just yea, but it's changing as we speak.
Kart/We have an agenda and it's in your packet that you'll pick up, and the question that
we're having right now is, right now we're booked 6:30 to 9:00.
Pfab/And what day of the week?
Karr/Tuesday the 29th, you meet 8:00 to noon for budget and then your coming back at
6:30 for the budget presentations from Boards, Commissions and community
organizations.
Pfab/Okay.
Kart/We're having community organizations now saying they'd like to come in, I just
want to be comfortable with telling them that they can come in and you'll add
them to the back.
Vanderhoef/At 9:00/
Karr/Well that's my question, I didn't feel comfortable.
Vanderhoef/Are these ones that.
Karr/You went until 10:00.
Vanderhoef/Are these ones that we've never heard from before?
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Karr/No, no, bear in mind the invitation was extended only to those who had fulfilled the
requirement of filling out the budget request.
O'Donnell/How many are there Marian?
Karr/Right now you're full, like I said 6:30 to 9:00 and we have at least two more
waiting for phone calls back on whether we could add them.
O'Donnell/What 15 minutes a piece?
Karr/What we're saying is 15 minutes a piece, 10 minutes for presentations, 5 minutes
for questions.
O'Donnell/it probably would be all right until 9:30.
Pfab/I'm opposed (can't hear), no those people shouldn't have to wait, they put a lot of
time and effort, I would say move them up to the front.
Karr/I'm sorry who should wait?
Pfab/I mean they should not have to wait for those presentations until after the meeting,
after 9:00.
Karr/But that's what the meeting is for is presentations.
Pfab/But I thought you said there was a first part was for that.
Karr/No 8:00 in the morning your first part is budget presentation. Starting in the
evening at 6:30 you will hear from people who have scheduled times to do budget
presentations. Now we have people who would like to be added to the list, should
we go ahead and add them?
Pfab/Oh, could they be added in the morning or some other time?
Vanderhoef/No, no, they can't.
Pfab/9:30, that's okay, as long as they have a slot, a time slot that's okay, but just to sit
here and wait and wait and wait, no, I'm not.
Kanner/No, they'll have a time slot Irvin.
Vanderhoef/No.
Pfab/Okay, then that's fine, whatever have a time.
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Kart/Please stop and pick up your packets, they're ready.
Karmer/Thank you.
Champion/Thanks.
Adjourned 4:30.
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