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Home My WebLink About2002-04-02 Transcription#2b Page 1 ITEM NO. 2b WEEK OF THE YOUNG CHILD APRIL 7-13 2002 Karo Here to accept is Laurie Nash, Johnson County Empowerment Laurie Nash: Thank you. I just wanted to make everyone aware that we are having kind of at the end of the Week of the Young Child an event that we are calling the Celebration of the Young Child. And that will be on April 13th at the Sycamore Mall from 10 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. and we will be having a lot of different events. There will be a car seat safety check, and safety finger priming by the Police Department, a puppet shows, and dance classes, and yoga for youngsters and all kinds of things. So we would invite everyone to the Sycamore Mall on the morning of April 13th. And thank you for taking the time and making this important. Lehman: Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #3 Page 2 ITEM NO. 3. OUTSTANDING STUDENTS 3a. Grant Wood Elementary: Nic Reed, Merritt Rodriguez Hannah VanderSchel and Adam Sullivan Lehman: Item three is outstanding student citizenship awards and if the young folks from Grant Wood Elementary would come forward please. Lehman: You know sometimes people say that you save the best for last we don't do that at council meetings. We start out with the very, very best. This is something we've done, for goodness sakes, since before I was mayor and that seems like it's been almost forever and I remember Naomi Novik. I used to think of her as a little grandma would come out and she would talk to the kids and now grandpa is doing it. And I think that I enjoy it probably more than she every did. So, I'd like to ask each of you to tell us your name and why you were nominated, starting with you. Adam Sullivan: My name is Adam Sullivan and to be a good citizen I have been on safety patrol all this year. While on patrol for one week every three weeks I go to wherever I am suppose to be posted and watch for fights and kids breaking roles. I have done conflict management since the end of fourth grade. Conflict managers is like patrol except at recess and we go in pairs. I have also volunteered in the lunch room a lot last year and at the beginning of this year. Hannah VanderSchel: Hello my name is Hannah VanderSchel. I am 12 years old and I am in the 6th grade at Grant Wood Elementary. Some of the in school activities that I am involved in are Jazzy Jumpers, student council, safety patrol, and an after-school basketball league. Other things that I do are babysitting and taking piano lessons. Jazzy Jumpers is a jump rope group made up of 4~h through 6th graders. We have a large group routine and we make small groups of three or more to make small group routines. We practice every Tuesday and Thursday unless we have a performance coming up and then we practice every day of the week. In student council we get together and think of fundraisers, different school spirit days and other fun things for the students to do to make the school a better place. We also collect soup labels to make, uh... and have school store every Wednesday. We take tums at different jobs such as cashiers, K-1 helpers, (can't hear) leaders, and clean up. Safety patrol is for 6th graders. We are assigned different posts around the school to make sure the students are following the rules and being safe before and after school. I babysit every day after school. On average I babysit 10 -12 hours a week and get paid $3.00 an hour. I take piano lessons at West Music in Coralville every This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. Page 3 Wednesday from 5:30 to 6:00. I also have piano recitals every month and participate in a memory contest in March. Nic Reed: Hello, my name is Nic Reed. I am honored to be receiving this award. I'm involved in many in-school activities such as Jazzy Jumpers, safety patrol, and conflict managers. I'm also involved in many out of school activities. I play many sports and will be attending the college for kids program in the summer. The Jazzy Jumpers is a jump roping group that has 4th, 5th, and 6th graders practice jumping skills. We meet Tuesdays and Thursdays to practice a large group routine as well as small group routines. We perform in various places in Iowa City. Safety patrol is a group of kids chosen by Mr. Bulky that have various posts around our school. We are there to help kids find where they are going and to keep them out of trouble. Conflict managers is also a group of people chosen by Mr. Glenn to go on duty at different times of the day. Both solve problems that other students might have. We go on with one other person so it helps you get to know everyone. One of my after-school activities is a basketball league. Our P.E. teacher takes her time to do this for us, so I just want to say thank you Miss Grinko. College for kids is a two week program for students that receive the high score on the ICBS test. You can choose from three different classes to take for extra (can't hear). I am also involved in my Grandpa's livestock farm in Illinois. I go for five to six weeks over the summer. I go to many hog shows with him. Some of the places that we go are Jackson, Mississippi, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Louisville, Kentucky, and surrounding state fairs. I work for regional RCA after school. This is my mom's business. She makes plaster models of teeth. I help her clean the orthodontic trays as well as polish them off. In conclusion, I just want to say thank you to everyone. Lehman: That's my style notes. I like those. Merritt Rodriguez: My name is Merritt Rodriguez. I've gone to Grant Wood since kindergarten. I have been a Girl Scout and I am on the student council. I am also a patrol. I play the violin and act with the young footlights. I babysit pets for my neighbors and like living in Iowa City. There are so many nice people and fun things to do. Lehman: I think I heard one of you mention Mrs. Grinkos name. Did you know her name is really Mrs. Grinko-Lehman. You knew that? Pardon? Nic Reed: Tyler is one of my best friends Lehman: Tyler is my step-grandson and this woman is a tremendous - you guys are so lucky to have a teacher like her and I am so lucky to have a daughter -in-law like her. I just love her. Anyway, I am going to read This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #3 Page 4 one of these awards and I'll pass them out. And, listen I know your parents are proud of you. The council gets tired of this and I don't really care. Nobody is more proud of you than your grandparents. I can tell you that. Let's give these kids a hand. 3b. Hoover Elementary: Rebekah Dotzel, Jake Koepnick, Hannah Kregel Lehman: If the kids from Hoover would come forward please. We don't often get two in one night. This is cool. And again if you would read your name and why you have been nominated. Rebekah Dotzel: Okay. My name is Rebekah Dotzel. A good citizen is someone who cares for others and helps people who are hurt. Citizenship is helping and making people happy. I do that by visiting and delivering cards to people at Oaknoll. The seniors citizens' residence. Throughout the year our class does bake sales to raise money for people in other countries as well as people in the U.S.A. We collect can foods for Iowa City food bank and school supplies for students in other countries. I would like to thank my teachers and principal for helping me become a good citizen. I would especially like to thank my parents, my sister, and relatives for bringing a good influence and motivating me to be a good citizen. Jake Keopnick: My name is Jake Keopnick. Being a good citizen means to be a good person with and without peers around you. It means to do helpful things and be positive towards others. If you are a good citizen you do things without being asked. Being a good citizen is being honest, caring, respectful, responsible, and courageous. That is what citizenship means to me. Thank you. Hannah Kregel: My name is Harmah Kregel. A good citizen is someone who is responsible, respectful, and caring. They are nice to others. It is a good idea to help out with group and comxmmity activities because you are doing something for other people. You should also try to get your homework done on time. I would like to thank my teachers, relatives, and my principal Mr. Worz. I would especially like to thank my mom and dad for helping me learn to try my best at everything I do. Thank you for listening and for the award. Lehman: You got to admit this is the best part. We really are proud of you kids as well as your parents. And this is something that the entire council looks forward to. Congratulations. We all wish we could say the same things that you guys just did. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #3 Page 5 Lehman: We all know that they are rushing home so they can watch the rest of the meeting on T.V. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #4 Page 6 ITEM NO. 4 CONSDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED OR AMENDED. Lehman: Item number four is consideration adoption to the consent calendar as presented or amended. Champion: Move adoption O'Donnell: Second adoption Lehman: Moved by Champion, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion. Kanner: I would like to pull out three items. Lehman: Okay Kanner: 4d, number 3, 4, and 5 for separate consideration please. Lehman: Okay Wilburn: I would also like to pull out item number d(1) for separate consideration. Lehman: Okay. Lehman: Any other discussion? Kanner: I would just like to make note ora couple things that are in here. We are setting the public hearing for the First Avenue Corridor Improvement Project that is going to be somewhat significant. A lot of plans for that. In hear it actually says April second, is it April 14th? Karr: April 16th Kanner: Okay, so April 16th in here for that public hearing. Also I'd like to make note that we are accepting a civil penalty of $300 from Deli Mart on Highway 1 because of employee selling cigarettes to a minor. And hopefully people will be getting the message that they have to enforce the law of not selling cigarettes to minors and make sure their employees don't do the same. And then finally, actually there were two things. Two letters. One was received a letter from Rod Sullivan talking about the Coralville businesses that are going to be displaced by the Coralville Convention Center and he said we ought to make a pitch for those businesses to relocate into Iowa City and I think that is an idea that we might want to consider and especially in light of the proposals to make urban renewal areas which we will be voting on in a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #4 Page 7 public hearing in just a moment. So hopefully we'll talk about that a little more. Making a pitch for that - those companies. Atkins: We have sort of talked about it already. Kanner: We have? Atkins: Yeah. Kanner: Well, that's good. Atkins: Okay. Alright Kanner: Thanks for doing that. And then finally we have a letter from Becky Soglin who is a vice chairman of Environmental Advocates inquiring about the sensitive areas ordinance and a new definition for wetland - isolated wetlands and just to let Becky know and the community know we will be receiving an ordinance to consider before council most likely in April. Actually in April and go to Planning and Zoning most likely we were told by staff and then in May City Cotmcil should be considering an ordinance that will protect isolated wetlands. Pfab: I believe that the one wetland that is going to be coming up in the new Heidelberg Scott Boulevard building going downtown Scott Boulevard that is already protected and will not be changed is that right? Lehman: Other discussion? Roll call on the consent calendar as amended. Motion carried (7/0). Champion: Move adoption of d(1). O'Donnell: Second. Lehman: Moved by Champion, seconded by O'Dormell to consider d(1). This is the one that you asked to be removed. Wilburn: I will be abstaining due to a conflict of interest because the place I work for is an applicant for commtmity development block grant funds. Lehman: Okay. Any discussion? Kanner: Could you tell us what d(1) is? Wilbum: The motion sitting public heating for community development block grant and home investment partnership program. April 16th. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #4 Page 8 Kanner: April 16th. Okay. Lehman: All in Favor? [all ayes]. Motion carries. 6-0. Ross abstaining. Do we have a motion? Vanderhoef: Okay. Move to consider 4d (3) (4) and (5) Champion: Second. Lehman: Motioned by Vanderhoef, seconded by Champion. These are three items that are relative to ...type of public hearings relative to proposed urban renewal projects and the industrial park mall. Discussion. Karmer: I'm gong to make a motion to defer the public heating until September. Our first meeting in September. Lehman: Is there a second to defer? Dilkes: Wait a minute we haven't ...this is setting the public hearing. Did you want to amend that to change the date of the public hearing? Kanner: Yes. I'd like to set the public hearing amended to set the public hearing for the first meeting in September. Lehman: Is there a second? Pfab: Well, I believe that we hinder our ability to ... Champion: Can we discuss this without a second? Lehman: We have to have a second before we can discuss the amendment. Lehman: Amendment fails for lack of second. Other discussion? All in favor (5 ayes). Opposed? Oh, I'm sorry we need a role call. Motion carries six to one. Kanner voting the negative. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #5 Page 9 ITEM NO. 5 PUBLIC DISCUSSION Lehman: Item five is public discussion. This is the time reserved on the agenda for the public to address the council on items that do not otherwise appear on the agenda. If you wish to speak please sign in and give your name address and limit your comments to five minutes or less. Bob Elliott: Thanks for this opportunity. I'll try to be brief. I have a couple of suggestions that I hope that you will consider. First has to do with the completion of First Avenue which was completed, as I understand it, at a cost of about a half a million dollars. Lehman: What's your name? Etliott: Bob Elliott. I wrote it down. I thought that maybe you could read over my shoulder. I understand the portion of First Avenue to be completed was done in November last year and that the council has made a determination that it will not be opened, it will remain blockaded until the completion of Scott Boulevard. I understand and I respect the reasons for which you are doing that. I happen to disagree. But, I would suggest that you would do something further because there might be delays in construction due to weather - this is Iowa. There might be delays in construction due to litigation - this is Iowa City. And because there might be any number of things that could cause the completion not to meet the schedule of November of this year. I would like to see the council set a date by which First Avenue would be opened whether or not Scott Boulevard is. Something to the affect that First Avenue would be unblockaded come November of '02 or the completion of Scott Boulevard whichever is first. I wish that you would consider that. Because I think to simply leave it hanging that it will be until the completion that could be delayed. One other quick suggestion is that when there is going to be a bond issue or an election for a sales, local option sales-tax, I think it would be a benefit to the public if the Council could give us a bit of a forecast as to what is coming down the road from the school district or other agencies which might do that. I wonder, I don't think it was done, when we passed the bond issue for the library, and I wonder if it might have been some people who might have voted differently had they know that the school district was immediately on the heels with a 30 - 35 million dollar election to detemfine either a local option sales tax or bond issue. That is simply a suggestion. I think it would be a service to the public for them to have that information when they cast their ballot. Thanks a lot for listening. O'Donnell: Thanks, Bob. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #5 Page 10 Lehman: Thank you Bob. Karmer: Bob, just to let you and the public know we do have joint meetings every three months or so where some of these issues are discussed and they are open to the public. So you're welcome to come to those. LeRoy Bird: My name is LeRoy Bird. And on your First Avenue project, I don't understand how you folks be in businessmen could let the pavement sit up there and deteriorate without it being used. You put all that money in there and it's sitting there like a dead horse. Now you businessmen know that you don't go buy a bunch of material to have in your store and leave it sit there for a year before you go try to sell it and use it. It just doesn't make good sense what you're doing. I wouldn't do it. I know that. Think of the money that you got there. If you weren't going to go through with it, then you should've put it in where it would have drew interest or something like that. It's plain foolishness what you've done. Lehman: Any other public discussion? Dawn Mueller: Good Evening council. Now this is Dawn Mueller. I'll keep this brief. I wanted to express my interest and hope that you will express your interest in the idea of development of a municipal electric utility for Iowa City. I think that from what I have looked at from the work done by the public power initiative that I think there are some very good opportunities for the city and that the idea has a lot of foresight for generations of our citizens to come. I understand that there is a difficult budget situation right now and that you're all faced with a lot ofdifficult choices to make with respect to that budget, but I really think that it would be important for us to consider all of our options and do a feasibility study on this potential project to see if it may actually have benefits for the city in the long run. So, I hope that you would consider funding a feasibility study. Or if it can be possible to work with other communities to try to develop a pool of funds that several communities could use for a joint study. I know that there are member of this city council who have shown great interest in working with other communities in project before and I'm thinking particularly of Councilor Vanderhoef you have a good reputation with the League of Cities and it might be a nice opportunity to be able to get together with other communities across the state to see if we could procure some funds for that. Thank you. Lehman: We will be looking at that, I think, very shortly. Kanner: Do we have a date on that will be to us? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #5 Page 11 Atkins: You sort of gave me the heads up the other day that you'd like to have it in May. Lehman: Yeah Atkins: Our next agenda is rather full - the second meeting in April. Lehman: So probably the first of May. We do need .... Atkins: It might be a good idea at the next work session to just have a quick visit about how you want this discussion to occur and we can pick the date and I'll remind you Wilbum: Did it get placed on the agenda for the joint cities meeting for the next Dilkes: Yes Lehman: Any other public discussion? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6a Page 12 ITEM NO. 6a PUBLIC HEARING ON AMENDMENTS TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, SOUTH DISTRICT TO SHOW THE GENERAL ALIGNMENT OFA FUTURE EAST-WEST ARTERIAL STREET AND TO AMEND THE TEXT OF THE PLAN TO REFER TO THE ALIGNMENT. Lehman: Item number 6 are planning and zoning matters. A is public hearing on amendments to the Comprehensive Plan, South District Map to show the general alignment of a future eat-west arterial street and to amend the text of the plan to refer to the alignment. Public hearing is open. JerryHansen: Mynameis JerryHansen. Iliveat 1237 Bums Avenue. AndIwas here last night at your work session and as a planning and zoning commissioner and the one descending vote on the new aligmnent for this piece of property for this road. My reasons were that the original alignment that went south down around the Sycamore dog leg seemed to me to go farther south and include more of the property down on the south end of Iowa City. It was alluded to last night that if it went down that direction that it would isolate the property south of that and I find that very difficult to believe being that the road would be closer to that property. I was heard it mentioned that the original alignment is still in the plan even with option B because it was brought to us as a planning and zoning commission if we voted for option B and ran it straight across that piece of property that would pretty much eliminate the original alignment. And the original alignment they were wanting to do away with that because of the cost of crossing the Iowa River at that point. So, I was wondering how that original alignment is going to remain as it is and still get option B. So something to consider when you think about this. O'Donnell: Thank you, Jerry Champion: Karen can answer that for us. Karen Franklin: I think that I should probably respond to that since Jerry's referring to comments I made last night. And I think it's a matter of terminology. When you asked the question about the alignment going across the river and hooking up with the 218 interchange that option is still mentioned in the plan as an opportunity. When we talked about the original alignment verses option A verses option B. The original alignment was coming across the river, hooking up to Gilbert Street, turning south on Gilbert, going east on the Sycamore L and then following the top of the conservation easement through Sycamore farms to Scott Boulevard. So, that's what I was referring when I was referring to the original alignment which is yes as Jerry indicates that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6a Page 13 would no longer be the alignment for the arterial that we are talking about in this instance. But the plan still holds open the option of having the crossing of the Iowa River to the 218 interchange. Lehman: Thank you Karen. Anyone else wish to speak to this. Atkins: Mr. Mayor, while the person is coming to the microphone, for those folks there are a number of chairs up here. Okay. Steven Nelson: I'm Steven Nelson, 1033 Sandusky Drive. A few weeks ago I attended a session of Planning and Zoning Board because of several issues related to my neighborhood were being discussed. As I and the others sat and listened and at times offered comments to the board I became increasingly disturbed from what I heard from the city staff and zoning board. The people were referred to the comprehensive plan and to the south district plan yet it became increasingly obvious that no one from the city staff, the zoning board or the public participants spoke in defense of the plans. When discussing the pros and cons of the proposal. It was just "and besides it doesn't fit with the comprehensive plan or the south district plan". No one expressed any desire to follow, enforce, implement or improve upon the city and district plans. It became simply what was needed to be amended to permit a developer as a city staff request. No one expressed any desire to follow any pre-conceived plan for development. But, we do need a plan staff and concerned citizens crafted a plan for how the south district could be developed over the next 15 to 20 years. A plan which defined a friendly and manageable neighborhood, a concept for a dream house. Now we are starting to build by creating additions before the basic structure is even started. Same way we will have a structure defined by external additions with no visible signs of the dream house we wanted to build. A bathroom in the middle of the dining room, entry to the kitchen through the master bedroom, a picture window facing a brick wall six inches away. A shattered dream. The south district plan was developed around, excuse me. The south district plan was developed around a single neighborhood plan of single and multiple family residential housing and a neighborhood commercial center. There are two possible locations for a school. The southern edge of the development is defined by an east-west arterial street consist with the south district plan. There are no high density apartment complexes. Development of south district began with three proposals moving the southern arterial north to divide the district into two neighborhoods, creation of community commercial area to supplement or compete with the neighborhood commercial, development of large apartment complex on the western edge along Sand Road. Although the commercial development is currently on hold, the other two project are now before the council for approval. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6a Page 14 Reasons for moving the arterial north mostly involve improved traffic flow in both direction and speed. No one from staff or zoning or participants addressed the issue why the district needs to be divided into two parts. No one has argued why it is better ifa school is ever built, a portion of the children will never be able to walk to school. No one has argued why it is better to divide neighbors by an arterial street rather than sidewalks and narrow streets. No one has argued why the ease and speed of moving from the east to west regions around Iowa City are more important than the safety and integrity of the citizens living south of U.S. Highway 6. Creators of the south district plan had a better idea for development than that which you are now being asked to approve. Please give the district plan a chance. And I really want to stress that this arterial moving northward will divide this neighborhood. Like the Brookside on one side of Highway 6 and Hollywood on the other side. Neighbors do not get together. Arterial through the central of this district will divide it into two separate districts with very little in common. It's not that the arterial is wrong or isn't needed. But, it completely upsets the south district plan. It is a one neighborhood plan and now you are asking..being asked to make it into two and I just think it needs a lot more thought before you make that thing. We need to develop a new south district plan if we're going to divide it into two pieces. You can't put an arterial through it and expect it to stay as a viable plan. It just won't work. Thank you. Lehman: Thank you. Pfab: Can I ask you a question? What...If you were in charge of everything, what would you do? Nelson: What would I do? Pfab: Yes, what is your plan ...I'm sure that you've thought this out. At least that's my impression and I'm just curious what you might suggest. Nelson: When I was at the Planning and Zoning I was torn because I can see the need ... this is a more direct, straight route across the land, but it completely destroys the south district plan. So, I would leave it on the south Sycamore L or somewhere in that vicinity. It can't be on the L itself because we have houses with driveways there and this arterial will have no driveways on it. So, you'll have to have an access road next to it. So, whichever side you go, I would leave it. That defines the southern district and the district plan would be what it is with a central neighborhood commercial. P fab: Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6a Page 15 Nelson: Moreover, the south district plan says that the commercial district should not be next to an arterial and so you're changing the whole concept of the south district plan. I mean, it can be changed there is nothing wrong, but just to arbitrarily move the street and then try to pick up the pieces is not the way to approach this issue. It should be thought out much more carefully. I mean we need a new south district plan with a northern alignment and then we see how things will work. Pfab: Thank you. Nelson: Any other questions. Lehman: Thank you. Lehman: Anyone else wish to address the issue? Dilkes: Mr. Mayor can we have a motion to accept? Lehman: Closed moved by O'Donnell, seconded by Wilbum to accept correspondence. All in favor (all ayes) All opposed. Motion carries. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #16 ITEM NO. 6b PUBLIC HEARING ON AMENDMENTS TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO PROVIDE FOR THE LOCATION OF LARGE ARPARTMENT IN NEW NEIGHBORHOODS AND TO AMEND THE SOUTH DISTRIC PLAN LAND USE MAP TO DEPICT MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENT ON THE EAST SIDE OF SOUTH GILBERT STREET EAST AND SOUTH OF NAPOLEON PARK Lehman: Item b is a public hearing on amendments to the Comprehensive Plan to provide for the location of large apartments in new neighborhoods and to amend the South District Plan land use map to depict multi- family development on the east side of South Gilbert Street east and south of Napoleon Park. Public hearing is open. Mike Pugh: Good evening, my name is Mike Pugh I am the attorney for the Dinerstein Companies which is the applicant for the rezoning request which is actually item 6c on the agenda which, but this particular issue is of concern to us obviously in our project. I think it's important to remember as we listen to the public comments about amendments and the east west arterial and the Comprehensive Plan that the Comprehensive plan itself is a general policy statement about development that should be following when zoning plans are considered by the city. It is within the city council's discretion to change to comprehensive plan and the council has broad discretion in doing so any time the council deems circumstances and conditions warrant such action. The current policy of the comprehensive plan suggests that the city should not allow an apartment complex greater than 4-6 units per building on an area not any greater in size than 3/10 to 4/10 of an acre. We believe that the current policy and the limitations of that policy do not serve the best interests of Iowa City and an amendment of the plan is warranted. The current comprehensive plan ignores the fact that Iowa City has a population of over 30,000 students - University of Iowa students. No where in the comprehensive plan does is mention the need to provide, plan for, accqrnmodate, and control student housing. Although the plan recognizes that the near south side of downtown could be used for multi-family housing the plan also recognizes that many merchants and business owners feel that residential population in downtown burdens the parking system to the detriment to the business and that a balancing act must occur in that respect. We should seriously consider whether or not is an effective planning strategy to convert our downtown structures into apartment complexes. One of the predominant goals of the downtown planning district and central planning district is to protect the integrity of the older neighborhoods adjacent to downtown and the University of Iowa campus. That is a worthwhile goal. The plan further recognizes the conflicts associated This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #17 with redevelopment that has occurred in these older neighborhoods. However, neither the comprehensive plan nor each of these district plans provide a real solution or an action plan to reach this specific goal. Cities historic districts are located in these neighborhoods. In order to meet the demand for student housing there has been and internal sprawl of student housing from the downtown campus area outward. There has also been several conversions of downtown structures into apartment complexes. This has created a constant tension between those seeking development and neighborhood activists and historic preservationists seeking to protect the integrity of these neighborhoods. And in fact there has also been numerous instances where the neighborhood groups have come before you in an attempt to down zone their property in their older neighborhoods to prevent multi-family development. Amending the plan as proposed offers a solution to this problem. For convenience students will naturally live as close as possible to campus. However, students are willing to live farther away from campus if certain amenities are provided, such as luxury suites, pools, workout rooms, computer labs, on-site security and management and other amenities. Yet the economics dictate that in order to provide these amenities a larger scale development is needed like that one that my client proposes. I think it's important to consider what the alternative is to this type of development. I say this type of development - I mean my client's development. Their proposed development has 168 units with 624 bedrooms. If that sort of development is not located on the outskirts of this city at the intersection of two arterials as we would like to do, those units and those bedrooms have to be put somewhere and we think that it's a better idea to put out away from downtown instead of putting those units in the downtown area, in the older neighborhoods and in the historic districts scattered apart in smaller complexes that are so small that those amenities that I discussed cannot be provided. We should not confuse the issue regarding larger apartment complexes with the issue of density. This is not a high density development. In fact it qualifies under the definition of the city's ordinances as a low- density development. The issue is larger scale apartment complexes. In review of the current south district plan land-use map shows apartments located at the comer of this proposed site surrounded by duplex and/or small lot single family. Our proposed development has a lesser density than the density presently allowed by the south district plan land use map. Duplexes and small-lot single family housing are both pemfitted uses under a RS-12 high density single family residential zone. It is possible to develop this site at a density of approximately 14 and a half units per acre under that currently planned.., under that current plan which is significantly more than the 9.88 units per acre planned for the development by my client. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #18 Lehman: You need to wind this up a little. Pugh: I'm almost done. Thank you. Lehman: Thank you. Pugh: The density of this project is such that if this was a single family residential development the requisite zoning for the project would be an RS-8 zoning. The proposed amendment to the plan is reasonable and serves a legitimate purpose and I thank you for your consideration. Lehman: Thank you. I just wanted to remind folks we do have a five minute per person, but obviously if you don't get through with what you are saying you can certainly speak again after everyone has had an opportunity. So, ifI interrupt you I am not doing that to stop anybody from speaking it's to give everyone else an opportunity to speak. Go ahead. Shrader: Hi. I feel like it's been so long since I've seen you in person. I'm Robyrm Shrader from the Weeber-Harlocke association. During our neighborhood struggles over the past year or mom we were repeatedly told that the city had no choice but to enfome the zonings that were in place on the undeveloped land in our area. Several of you told me privately as well as publicly that although it was a shame that the zoning and land use did not make perfect sense there was nothing to be done. We were encouraged to participate in the southwest district planning process which was reprioritized to try to alleviate some of our problems. You told us "Go get involved" "Be a part of the process" and" Determine the future of your neighborhood." So we have and we're attending those meetings quite diligently. So did the residence of the south district. There was a process and an outcome that represents the views and desires of all interested parties in that area. You reviewed and adopted it not that long ago. This plan has not even been given a chance and now a developer is asking you to change it. The ramifications of the change requested are profound and will have a tipple down effect on the entire land use plan for the area. The developer bought the property after the adoption of the plan so they knew the land use designation when it was purchased. The neighborhood, however, had expectations of what would occur based on your adoption of the plan and the fact that all zoning changes are required by law to be consist with the plan in place. I can't be the only person in the room struck by the irony of a developer's attorney arguing that council's has broad discretion in these matters. I'd like you to respect the process that you laid out for the citizens for the south district and uphold that plan on their behalf and actually on all of our behalves. It will be difficult to have faith in a process and an This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #19 outcome that we are currently engaged in the southwest district if it can be so drastically changed by one property owner wanting to do a complicated project. It will be devastating for you to send a message that will change the law for a developer but we won't enforce it for the neighbors. If that became your bias or your practice what would be the point in encouraging citizens input into planning. It would become a charade. I get phone calls from people around my neighborhood of late frustrated about the changes in their quality of life since the comanencement of those two heavily contested projects on Harlocke street and I tell them, "Hey, we tried to argue the merits of what it would do to our neighborhood, but council had no choice but to enforce the laws in place." Please demonstrate that you will take the same protective stance toward the adopted land-use plan in the south district and all others. The average citizen needs to rely on your adherence to laws and expectations as much as any developer does and now's your chance to prove that you can. Thank you. Dave Klockau: Good evening council and staff. My name is Dave Klockau. I live at 1031 Briar here in Iowa City. I came to town here back in the mid- 70's and I was one of those college students that we've had some debates about and low and behold I am still here and I plan to stay here for awhile. Champion: I hope you're out of college now. Klockau: Pardon? Champion: Are you still a college student? Klockau: No, no I did graduate, Connie. Champion: Oh, good. Klockau: At any rate, the reason I'm here tonight is to talk about this issue and I have a letter that I'd like to read that was actually written by Lori Klockau. Loft could not be here tonight and although we may not agree about where to eat dinner, what movie to see, on the important issues we do agree on. Before I read this I just want to make a comment about the apartment complex in particular. Mr. Pugh made some very good points that right now we are dealing with an apartment sprawl around downtown, around campus. That's something we have to deal with. Why transplant that possible problem to another area. Where I live on Briar Drive on the south side of Iowa City, we have multi-tenant housing, whether it be students or non-students to the east, west, and north of where I live. So to me as you have heard previously this idea does not fit the plan. I think that we're trying to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #20 put a square peg in a round hole. And I've heard from previously Planning and Zoning meetings that I've attended developers are not looking to scale this back. That's their decision. They know what their numbers are. They know what they have to have in place to make this succeed. So, I'd like to read this to you and I'll stay on track for time here. Dear Council Members, I'm a long term resident of the Pepperwood neighborhood and I'm on the Steering Committee for the Concerned Citizens for Sand Prairie preservation. I'm writing concerning an agenda item that will addressed at the April 2n°2002 Iowa City Council meeting. Tape: Side 2 the apartment complex that Southgate is requesting to be built in the southern part of Iowa City. It deviates substantially from the south district plan previously approved by the Iowa City Council. Myself and my neighbors put substantial amounts of time into developing the south district plan. When a similar issue came up into the Weeber- Harlocke neighborhood it was council's position that the plan was binding and should not be altered except for good reason. It appears to me that a completely different standard is being used for Southgate's current proposed apartment complex. Our group has previously provided the Iowa City's Council and staff with a packet of information which shows without question that part of this apartment complex intrudes on an environmentally sensitive piece of land. Not only is this particular area habitat for a threatened species, it is the unique geological formation, it is also habitat for many native prairie species. This land should qualify to be place on the Iowa City sensitive areas map. That at this date has not yet been designated an environmentally sensitive area. Our group is in the process of exploring whether or not it would be possible to purchase and/or acquire some of the land in question to be set aside as a park or green space. Obviously if you go ahead and rezone this area as requested by Southgate now we will lose that opportunity forever. It should be clear to Council that more information needs to be gathered before such rezoning is approved. Along with the other issues already raised by the City Council or by City staff including concerns regarding traffic, fire protection, and police protection, the environmental issues in this area of town are enormous. I would remind City Council that the City of Iowa City has been contacted by the Iowa Department of Natural Resources and that state agency has requested the city not to proceed with any rezoning or building permits until all of the environmental issues have been resolved. The proposed apartment complex clearly encroaches onto the sand prairie remnant. Iowa City Council should not proceed at the time to allow this rezoning until all environmental issues have been fully explored and satisfied by the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #21 Department of Natural Resources. It would be precipitance to go ahead with the rezoning at the time and risk potential legal issues... legal action from the state if the rezoning is allowed before the DNR are fully explored. At some point in time it may be appropriate for the rezoning in this area to be approved. However, I strongly urge the Iowa City Council to not approve the rezoning until the environmental issues that I have addressed above have been fully explored and addressed. That is a lot of information. Do you have any questions? Pfab: I have a question. Klockau: Yes, sir. Pfab: If there...if we find out that this apartment complex is outside of the area...the sensitive area or the area that we are trying to preserve what would your position be then? Klockau: If it's outside of the sensitive area, then you're going to be in...I would speculate that you wouldn't have the issues that have been stated in terms of the environmental sensitivity to the area. But, at the same time on the bigger...on the other issue Irvin if I may in terms of the south district plan, this development does not fit the plan based on density. Pfab: Okay. You live in the area? Klockau: Yes. Pfab: Would you rather have apartments scattered all through your area or would you rather have them in one place? Klockau: Well, if you define apartments as in? Pfab: I don't know, what are these, 4, 6 units. Would you rather have those scattered all through the neighborhood? I see a dilemma. I don't know that answer. Klockau: Yep. Yep. I think to answer your question, to go back not everybody can have every single thing they want. Pfab: Right. Klockau: As residents we have to share and have a give and take situation with our planners, with our developers that are looking to make a living developing. If you review that south district plan, it states that it does allow for multi-tenant housing, but not on that scale. In answer to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #22 your question, do ! want to see apartments spread throughout the area. Well, that's what we're dealing with already in the area that we live in. Pfab: Well, to me is this...I don't, I don't have an answer. I'm not saying that I do. But, it looks to me like that's an alternative so you can have more single family residential areas and the apartments off in the complex. And because of the fact that they're combined they also in position to offer some amenities that they couldn't if they were scattered around. Lehman: Irvin, those are the issues that we're going to have to deal with. Pfab: I mean, he was just bringing it up. I was just saying tell me how. Okay. Klockau: Any other questions from council or staff?. Lehman: Thank you. Klockau: Thank you, folks. Raymond Funk: Good evening. My name is Raymond Funk. I live at 416 South Dodge Street. I recently graduated from a two-year program in grounds and turf maintenance with a strong interest in parks and natural resources. I just wanted to comment on what one of the speakers last night defined as...or described as "this turtle thing." The state's population density is 50 people per square mile. The overall risk to ecosystems is moderate. The population density has decreased four percent since 1982. The amount of developed land has increased three percent between 1982 and 1992. Nearly all the tall grass prairies and pre-settlement wetlands have been lost. The state has 14 federally listed endangered and threatened species. Iowa does not have a formal biodiversity policy although a bill was introduced in the 1995 legislature stating that the policy and the goal of the state is to preserve biodiversity. Establishing educational programs and requiting a status report from the state ecologist. This bill is currently pending. In addition by statute by policy of the state is protect its natural resources for the benefit of future and present generations. It is also state policy by statute to conserve soil and water resources in order to preserve wildlife. I just...I guess I just have a question from what I understand land night before you begin anything like this you need some feedback from the DNR. I noticed there were a lot of young people here tonight. I don't know if you're familiar with this booklet that's been printed. One of the suggestions is in here is to a prairie bum...to find out after a year of reestablishment what kind of prairie species and forbs return. It would certainly, I think, be a disservice to the younger This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #23 people to not witness something like that if they even know what a prairie burn is or if they've even seen one. So, thank you for your time. Lehman: Thank you. Kanner: Raymond? Excuse me. Is it Raymond are you recommended that we wait a year at least before we do this prairie burn to see what plants might come out? Funk: I just feel that all efforts should be made to preserve as much of that area as you can. I also work at the Iowa City rec department and I think all efforts should be made to provide access to that kind of area. Obviously, developers see a piece of land and they want to develop it. I imagine that's possibly a priority number one. I can... I believe in compromise at this stage. But, I just think that all efforts should be made to preserve those kind of resources. That's certainly is a valuable tract of land down there being on the river front. Napoleon Park, the access there with the sidewalk. Guess that's it. Lehman: Thank you. Ann Bovbjerg: Mr. Mayor, Council, my name is Ann Bovbjerg. I live at 1710 Ridge Road. I am on Planning and Zoning Commission. Planning and Zoning Commission voted against changing this and against the apartment complex that started it. We understand that the south district plan can be changed if there is question of reality of... you can't cross the river to change the arterial road that goes there. This is reality based upon soil, topography, engineering, whatever. What this request is started by is a business coming in and saying "Can we do business in the way we usually do it?" And the answer can be "yes" or "no." And the answer that we gave both to that and to the comprehensive plan was "no." Because it did go against the comprehensive plan which we put a great deal of stake in the comprehensive plan map and words is the law of the land of this city and we take it very seriously and we think the Council should take it very seriously before you do any changing. The reason this is serious and the reason we have it is that it wasn't just put together from ideas from textbooks or other cities. This is put together by over 100 people in Iowa City who were called together by the Council to say "what do you want for Iowa City now and in the future? Not just streets and houses, but everything?" The comprehensive plan is what came from them. The district plans have pulled hundreds of people, yes hundreds of people together saying what do they want in their own district. That is very important. This is people telling the city what they want. This is rock bottom land use planning. From the comprehensive plan and This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #24 from the districts plans has come the advice: No Large Complexes. No large apartment complexes because they don't work. That's their experience. They've brought their experience, their wisdom to this and they've said "don't do this, we've tried it and it doesn't work." It's not good for the people inside, it's not good for the people outside. One whole big stress on planning now and in this comprehensive plan is that we are building neighborhoods. And yes, apartment complexes.., smaller apartments scattered here and there are a better for the neighborhood outside and the neighbors inside because they are part of the neighborhood. Apartments and the people who live in them are not second class citizens -they are parts of neighborhoods. Probably any of us have lived in apartments, maybe our kids live there, friends. These are not second class. They should not be shunted off somewhere. They should be part of neighborhoods. They are part of the community. They are part of the city. We cannot say "these will be for students, these will be for someone else." Those aren't. Especially not in the comprehensive plan because we don't do that, because we can't do that because it's against the law. You cannot say this will be for this kind of person, and this will be that kind of person, this will be this kind of rental or condominium. Density is density and buildings are buildings. And we don't have to rely on a technical definition of numbers of kitchens per acre meaning density. Population, people, per acre is a legal, by state law, way of saying density. 624 people in this piece of ground is a lot people. No matter how you define it. It's a lot of people. It's not a neighborhood. It's not part of a neighborhood. And the experience of this city as you know has been that large apartment complexes outside, away from the center of town are problems and strain city services. We have places that are already pre-zoned.., already zoned for high density and they' re closer to downtown. Students live close because they're going to the University there. That makes sense. That's why they are favored. That's where high density should be. It works okay. We get along with it pretty well. So, I would like to have you think very carefully about this and the next one. There is nothing that compels you to vote in favor of this change, there is nothing that compels you to vote in favor of the complex. As a matter of fact, there is no state law and no ordinance that says you've got to. There is no public policy, there is no public pressure that says "vote for this change." The public that has spoken said "no." This is the public that the Council asked to contribute. This is the public that comes to meetings. This is the public that votes for City Council members and says, "would you take care my city for me." So you seven people are going to have to listen to the public. Thank you very much. Lehman: Thank you, Ann. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #25 Pfab: Ann, I would like to ask you a question. You are.. you made a statement there and I'm just...for clarification I'm not...in no intention of being confrontational in any way shape of form. But, you stated that the students are part of the community, but if you look over at the student housing, are those part of the community or are they a community by themselves? This is...this is the part that I have trouble by. Bovbjerg: Student housing how do you mean it? Dorms? Pfab: Okay, the dorms. How much of that is interaction into the community? Bovbj erg: Dormitories and university housing and university buildings and university property are university designation. They come under different types of laws. They are not subject to city zoning. Pfab: Right. But...do we secede or annex part of the city to build more of those or a way to put a unit like this - which is basically built to support the university's population - student population. I mean I..to me, ya know it's whether that's the right place or the right neighborhood. I contend that maybe a very beneficial not only to the citizens of Iowa City, but also the students of the University. So, I mean because of the interaction amongst them. That doesn't mean that they can't be part of the community, but that's the question. That's the part that troubles me. Lehman: Those are the questions that we have to answer. And I think...and you're right those are... Pfab: But, when she brings it up, is there. Bovbjerg: University housing is quite separate from that. People, density, dormitories, housing..not dormitories, housing in Iowa City is Iowa City's...is under Iowa City jurisdiction and people are people and it doesn't make any difference who they are or what they're paying. Pfab: Okay, so I attend that the neighborhood housing relations taskforce or ad hoc committee and it appears that there is a fairly strong tension between the permanent citizens of Iowa City and the students and what do you call them - transient because they're here for a relatively short time and this to me appears to me that this may help solve this problem. In other words instead of..I want to use dumping the students into a neighborhood. I mean I don't have an answer, I have questions. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #26 Bovbjerg: I think tension between people in the city is not because of who they are or what they do during the day or night. I think it's behavior. Pfab: Or is it the atmosphere or the accommodations that they have to live in? I don't know. Okay. I appreciate your comments though. Bovbjerg: Thank you. Lehman: If I can ask the council if we have a question, let's try to write the questions down so that the public has an opportunity to speak at the hearing. Yes, go ahead. Amy Correa: Good evening, my name is Amy Correa and I live at 11 South 7th Avenue. I strongly encourage the Council to reject the proposed amendments. While I am not a member of the concerned citizens for sand prairie preservation I do support that group's aims. I'm here tonight as an advocate for affordable housing for low income households. In addition to the conservation base and other arguments against this amendment, I have decided that Iowa City does not need additional market rate rental units. In 1998 the City Commission on Housing market research analysis. It indicated a need over 1998-2000 for 445 subsidized and affordable rental units and only 70 new market rate units. However during that time 222 market rate units were built, three times the stated need. In contrast only 104 subsidized and affordable units were developed, only a quarter of what was needed. Additionally in Johnson County more 1,000 very low income, non- elderly renters the pay more than half their income for rent who are living in substandard housing according to a statewide assessment conducted at the University. This information alerts us to an affordable housing crisis which must be comprehensively addressed and should include rejecting this amendment. Additionally, in response to the first gentlemen's argument that the University students somehow need such amenities as pools and fitness centers I would argue that the University is not a vacation weekend resort. It provides...the University provides opportunities for recreation and I would argue it could do more to address its students needs for housing. Thank you. Lehman: Thank you. Larry Svobada: My name is Larry Svobada and I want to present a little different argument than you are probably used to hearing not.., mine is not going to be environmental or those type of things although I agree with a lot of the things said here tonight. My position would be rather that of a business person than the apartment business and I do not mean to be abrasive to anybody tonight but I will try to bring out some things This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #27 that I think are important and I don't hurt anybody's feelings, but we'll see how it works out. I arrived here in 1972. My mission was to build apartments and make money doing it. Okay. So you know where I'm coming from. I'm very biased. I liked the profit. I liked the business. When I got hem the zoning that was in Iowa City was helter skelter and you could build about anything anyplace about any time under any circumstance and there were neighborhoods that were under a lot of duress because of that. And then I heard something about a new comprehensive use plan and a new land use plan and new zoning ordinance that was going to be installed by the city and that was suppose to make everything better. And my first reaction to it was "Wow, this thing is really tight and tough." And I'm glad it is now after been here 30-some years. I think it's...the comprehensive land plan is something that's very much needed in every community as far as I'm concerned. And I'll get to that a little later. This is a unique market here in Iowa City. I came from Cedar Rapids where it was fashionable to live as far from the downtown area as you could. When I got down here in Iowa City I found out the opposite was true. It was fashionable to be as close to campus as you could be. If you owned property in Coralville you were a dead duck. You were giving away T.V. sets, you were giving away microwaves. Anything you could do to get a tenant out them. Coralville was a complete failure. Coralville finally had another option and that was commercial development of their ground and they bailed themselves out so hopefully they don't have to depend on the University student anymore like they did back in those days because it just didn't work for them. And when I say it's fashionable I picked up a copy of the Daily Iowan today and opened up the newspaper and read the want ads for apartments which there are two full pages so it looks like there is plenty out there that's available. And incidentally this is all off-campus housing so yes these students are a part of the community. They are living off.., there are many more students that live off-campus than on-campus and they are very much...I don't think there is any question as to if they're a part of the Iowa City community in a very large way. One thing that I found of interest that I thought you might find of interest is how important it is to live close in to the campus. So I use three basic words: close, convenient, or downtown and I circled the ads that had that word in it in md. That's how important it is. If you're a student here you want to roll out of bed and into the classroom. It's that simply. When you don't have a class, you want to go back home and either catch a few zzz's or drink a Pepsi. You don't want to have to sit and wait for a commuter bus to take you back to South Padre Island and bring you back for you 2:00 class when you have three hours in between class. So this program that these people am wanting to install is completely ridiculous. We had another failed project called Lakeside hem years ago when I arrived in Iowa City. In fact half of the project was closed This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #28 down after putting roofs on the buildings and thousands of dollars remodeling they were finally able to bail that one out. But, they bailed it out because they had one and two bedroom apartments and there was a demand for that kind of living in Iowa City. Back to the land use plan again, the thing that I like about it is that it provides something for a developer. It provides stability. It provides predictability. And it creates a level playing field for us. We know what we're getting into when we start to develop or purchase a piece of ground. If you change that plan, you're tinkering with it. That means you're tinkering with our business and you're tinkering with our projections of what we're going to do in our business. And that is not a fair...you're tilting the playing ground. You're...it's like a football team - you make the rules and we're the team and we have to expect that you're going to enforce the rules so that we can be a team and play on that field. When you tilt it, it's not fair to the rest of us. If this program were built and it were successful. Let's just say for instance that it was successful, there are some big players in Iowa City. I'm not one of them, but there are some big ones here. And if you take people out of their units, you know what's going to happen. They going to get them back. And you know how they're going to get them back. They're going to lower the rents. Whoa, that's a great thing for us, we're going to have lower rents in Iowa City. Lehman: You need to wind this up, Larry. Svobada: Okay. One thing that I'm going to tell you about lower rents. It lowers property values because the assessed value of our property is based on what we take in for rents, so we got a partner. We've got a partner in that respect if we have to start biting the bullet. The city assessor is going to have to bite the bullet too because we're going to start looking at lower tax rates going on our buildings. So, I think there is a lot of things to think about here. And not to mention enrollment caps and new other apartments that are on-line to be built in Iowa City. New dormitories that are going to be built by the University. There is a lot of market out there that's already been eaten up and I don't think there is a problem. So, that's all I have to say. Kanner: Larry, have any ofyonr projects asked for a rezoning? Svobada: Pardon? Karmer: Through the years, have any of your projects asked for a rezoning from the Council? Svobada: No. I have one that was rezoned for sensitive areas. But, I just went through recently, but that was. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #29 Kanner: That was the only one? Svobada: Yeah. Grant Raupp: I'm sorry I wasn't planning on coming and speaking so I'm sorry. Lehman: Give us your name first. Grant Peter Raupp: My name is Grant Peter Raupp. I've lived at 431 East Jefferson, apartment #3. I'm sorry if I'm a little scatterbrained. I wasn't planning on speaking, but after hearing some comments made by the corporate lawyer I decided that I need to voice my opinion. I'm the co-president of the UI Environmental Coalition. I'm also a UISG Student Senator here. So, I come as a resident - I've been living here four years. I come here as a student, and I come as an environmentalist. I'm going to speak generally about my..from a student standpoint. I don't want to live far away. And everybody I know doesn't want to live far away. We like the convenience of downtown. We like being able to go to shop at Eagle Foods, at the Co-op, at John's Groceries. We like...those are downtown and are very accessible to us. We don't need a car. We don't need to worry about bus schedules. These things are downtown. If I want to go eat, I walk a block and I have places to eat. In my opinion, it is better to have a walking population, rather than a driving population. It keeps cars off the road. It keeps congestion off the road. These are important issues especially in such a pedestrian populated area. Whereas, if I lived near campus I don't need a car for all the before mentioned reasons. I have the Old Capital Mall. I have all the downtown shops, downtown restaurants, and the local grocery stores. You Okay? IfI lived far, I'd need a car. And even if there was a bus, I'd have to live by that schedule and for convenience sakes I'm going to get a car no matter what. Now if I'm going to get a car, if you ask me, generally I'm not going to come downtown. I'm going to go to Coralville Mall. It's just more convenient that way. Rather than if I'm downtown, I'm going to use the downtown shops. If I have to drive, I'm going to drive to a place that has many, many stores. And, as it's kind of ironic that I just decided to speak and the gentleman that spoke before me, there is plenty of places for me to live. I have an option when I go looking. I don't have to: "oh, there's only one apartment left." No, I have many, many apartments to choose from when I'm looking for an apartment for the next year. On the environmental standpoint, I do want to reiterate that we do have to look at the environmental health. We have to look further into the environmental impacts about the rare species of turtle that lives there. Moreover, I do want to stay here. Unlike many students who come here and move This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #30 out, I want to stay here. But, the reasons I want to stay here is because I love the city and I love the Hickory Hill is a mile away from downtown. I can walk there. That's another convenient place. IfI have a car, I'm going to go out to Squire's Point and Coralville Dam all the time. Whereas here, I can just walk to the park. I'm sorry if I'm running low on time. But, if you develop these areas you take away the environment. You're taking part of the reason that I want to stay away...uh you're taking part of the reason that I want to stay here in Iowa City. So, I'm going to go find a place in northwest America where they have a lot more environment. Whereas, here I have a friendly community, friendly pedestrian community which makes me want to stay here. You take that away, you're taking the reason that I want to stay here away. Kanner: Grant let me ask you a question as an environmentalist, the question perhaps is not so much you going out there, but developing this project versus 100 smaller houses and duplexes which we're told will have similar amount of traffic between the proposed project and what's already in the comprehensive plan. Raupp: If you built it out... Kanner: What's the difference Raupp: If you build it out that far from downtown? Is that what you're asking? Kanner: Well, the proposed project where that is versus what's in the comprehensive plan for that area that calls for mixed housing. So they'll have cars too. They'll be traveling to Coralville. We're told that this place will have transit. Why is one better than the other? Raupp: As I said before, I don't think transit necessarily means that people are going to use it in mass. As an environmentalist I wish this was a different case, but it's not. People are going to, for convenience sake, buy a car. And as a student I can't really afford a car, but if you're going to force me to buy a car that is less money that I'm going to spend in the stores. I honestly, honestly I don't know much about this issue. I came to listen to the city council because I feel a part of this community and after hearing some of the conunents made I decided to speak. So, I'm sorry that I don't have a agenda to say to the city council. Lehman: We're sorry that you don't have the answers too. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #31 Raupp: I would love to talk to the city council if you'd like to talk to me about my view on the environment and how the city council and Iowa City can improve with this. I mean, you give me a time and I can learn this issue and I will address your questions at that time. Kanner: I want to talk to you more about it. Pfab: I have one question. At the present time, do you own a car. Raupp: Yes I do. Pfab: Okay. Raupp: But, I would like to add that I drive it very, very rarely. Pfab: I'm not a very distance neighbor of yours. Raupp: Oh, really. Pfab: I just live two blocks away from you. Raupp: Oh, yeah. Pfab: So, I know what you're saying. Lehman: Thank you very much. Raupp: Thank you. Dave Moore: My name is Dave Moore and I live at 425 Davenport Street on the near north side. But, I own a cabin on Winter Eagle road south of Iowa City. So, I'm sort of familiar with the area of the proposed development. I go up and down that road all the time. I think it's a bad idea, especially because of the chosen location. Sand Road is probably...it may be the last place around where you can get in your car in Iowa City and feel like you're part of rural Iowa in about five minutes. It's kind of a special place. There are many unique things about the area. You've heard about the Sand Prairie out there. But the Iowa River is full of eagles in the winter. The quarry ponds are stop overs for thousands of migrating birds. There are the ball diamonds that are full of families and kids in the summer. Napolean Park is the site of John Gilbert's Trading Post and were camping grounds for the area's native Americans. And a couple quiet residential neighborhoods there and then as you go south you're into golf courses and orchards and it just seems to me that a different kind of development, but the right kind of development, that is sensitive to the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #32 wildlife and history and the potential for recreation use in the area. That part of Iowa City could be a wonderful drawing card and an asset to our community. You've heard, ya know, from the citizens for Sand Prairie preservation and I think it's great that the Southgate developers are, at least I read today, have been working with them a little bit. About that land down there, it sounds like there might be a possibility that they might succeed. So, one obvious red flag arises is why put up huge student apartment complex next door to what might end up being some sort of a dream space or a preserve. Why not wait. But, them are a number of other reasons why this is a bad idea. One, the planning and zoning commission says there is no means to guarantee the management practices proposed will be in place over the long term. So, an obvious concern is what happens five or six years from now if the Texans get their money back and decide to move out of town. Some other concerns are just some things I've heard in those residential neighborhoods and amongst the people in the cabins down them. There's a little bit along the lines of worst case scenarios, and so I may be over stating them, but you might as well bring them up. One thing is that you know we're talking about 624 college kids hem. Folks out there read, some of them have read the recent Daily Iowan article that said in a 6-month period, I believe between August 2001 January that the complex in Ames that there were 104 call made to Ames police about disturbances and other violations. The folks down there are worded along the lines of the idea sort of like the hypothetical of taking 600 kids and throw in a little beer and you get baseball diamonds across the street, you have quarry ponds that look good in the summer, tubing on the river, maybe some of their friend - if this place fills up - which there is speculation about that I don't know about that at all, but maybe some of their friends would like to live in that area and is there any tiny potential at all for this area to turn to some sort of a playground for students. I guess that would depend on the supervision. I heard that over in Ames, and I assume it's true for Iowa City, but I'm not sure, that there's only one adult supervisor for these entire 624 kids. And that's one adult in a managerial position. So, it seems that it's something worth worrying about if you could put this thing somewhere else maybe it would work at some sort of self-contained student living ama. But, on Sand Road I think there's too much potential for spilling over and over. One thing is if you drive on Sand Road you notice a lot of bicycle riders. There is an organization in town BIC, I think that it's called Iowa City Bicycle Riders. They've just found out about the issue recently. I believe they're talking about it in their own meeting tonight. I think they'll be concerned. It's sort of like the ball diamonds. You have a community's recreational use that's already in place down there that seems to be a bad mix with this development and the traffic that it might entail. The whole issue of traffic and congestion. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #33 Lehman: Dave, you need to wind this up. Moore: Okay. Basically, you're going to have a lot of kids. I would assume most of them have a car. There has been talk of a shuttle system, but will they really use it? I don't know. What's the impact on the congestion conditions on Gilbert Street between Burlington Street and Highway 6? And the last thing that I want to talk about is the Iowa City girl's softball organization which also, I think, recently found out about this. This will just take about 30 seconds. From April to July those ball diamonds are used by families and their children. We're talking about 1600 kids a week around those baseball diamonds. If you envision going over this hill, and I know that I'm going a little bit over, but I just want to make this one point clear. If you go over that hill south of the railroad tracks, some families tend to stop. It's unfortunate, but they tend to stop on the other side of that hill to drop off their kids to save the kids from a long walk back. It's a situation that's a little bit precarious. I've heard that Parks and Rec already have a lot of concerns about traffic in the area, and you add this to the equation and it's another little red flag. So, basically I just think there are too many red flags and concerns pertaining to the location of south. And I think there would be a lot of great ways within the land use plan that this area could be developed but I hope the city council follows the recommendation of the planning and zoning conunission and turns it down. Lehman: Thank you. Folks, we're going to take a break until 20 minutes till nine. Lehman: Holly. Holly Berkowitz: Hi. Holly Berkowitz. 612 Granda Court. I just say no to sprawl. Value the invaluable. Give a price the priceless. Count more than cash. Value the comprehensive plan. There's a reason for it. There's a logic to it. We need to value logic just as much as we value number. We need to value...we need to quantify quality. Which means to build our cities logically and build our cities wisely because everything we do causes a reaction. We choose blessing or we choose curse. We choose the cause of the blessing or curse. And we're at this crossroads now where we take...our action are going to change the lives of people, your children, your children's children and their children's children's children exponitionally. We often undervalue the natural lands, but Konstan Zinn at the University of Maryland has done a landmark study that values these kind of lands more than the human productivity. That's very log...there a logic to that because wetlands are a great producer of oxygen 02. It has to be 02 to be absorbed by This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #34 the hemoglobin in the blood and it also is a sink for CO carbon monoxide which is 200 times.., it adheres to hemoglobin 200 times more than oxygen. So that if we build our cities so..with concrete and asphalt without building the natural areas, without keeping our natural areas intact, our filtering capacities, our air filtering, our cooling capacities, our filtering capacities of natural vegetation. Then we create areas that are toxic to human beings. On the other hand if we keep these areas intact we create areas that are healthy for human beings. And not only for human beings, all the other creators, and all the other plants so that they work together and they all produce the flows that we need to survive and to thrive and we just don't walk around like zombies. So, in summary, just say no to sprawl. How's that for precise. Lehman: Thank you Holly. Kanner: Holly, could you get us, council, a copy of that study - a summarized version of that study. The executive summary that you referred to at the University of Maryland? Berkowitz: Will do. Kanner: Thank you. Berkowitz: Your welcome. Jenny Hansen: My name is Jerry Hansen again. And I have a few things for you to think about that bothered me about this as a planning and zoning commissioner. To amend to comprehensive plan you have to this, you have to open the entire city up these type of complexes and I really wonder if this is a good thing or not to do. Last night at your work session, Steve you made the comment about how about just the south district. I wonder why you want to bless us so much individually. Kanner: Jerry don't leave out the rest of what I said. I said with certain requirements and restrictions that would Hansen: Limit it just to the south district. Kanner: No, I'm saying that if you're talking about this, that we'd talk about restrictions on just the district and with certain other parts added to it. Hansen: If you want to limit it to.. Kanner: And I'm not saying whether I'm in favor or against it, but I'm saying that those are things to look at. Instead of doing it over all. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #35 Hansen: You cannot probably limit it just the district. But, if you want to limit it to just that complex, that's called spot zoning and you can't do that. Kanner: No, just to the district, Jerry, I am. If were going to consider this perhaps limit it just the south district... Hansen: Why not the west, why not the east, why not... Lehman: Let's talk about what the issue is here. Hansen: Yeah. There's been a number of complexes that have been built for students in this town and a number of them that have failed. Management has been brought up tonight and management comes and management goes. Some are good managers and some aren't. If you get a good one, you're really blessed. But, most of the time and they're up against tough problems, they leave. City services. I wonder right now, I mean, city services it seems to mean the police force and the housing inspection people are stretched to their max. Our community has been growing and growing and growing and few police officers have been added to the staff and no housing inspectors. And right now I don't know how they're going to stretch out if there is a problem here. The neighborhood housing relationship task force has developed a list of recommendations to make apartments and even single family homes better neighbors in this town and even with this lengthily list of recommendations that we're going to give to city council everything on that list is predicated on enforcement and right now I don't think we have the enforcement to deal with. I don't think this town is ready to deal with another large apartment complex. Because we don't have the people to do it. And until we do have the people to do it, I wouldn't recommend anything as far as changes like this. We talked about busing from these complexes. I wonder what the actual ridership percentage is going to be. And I used to think that if you built student complexes on the outskirts of town and bus the kids in, great idea. Well, them is a big flaw in the ointment that not many kids are going to ride their buses and they're going to drive their cars in and they're going to park in the neighborhoods around. They are going to exasperate the problem that is already going around in the neighborhoods around campus. The traffic on Gilbert is another issue that is going to be generated by this apartment complex. At last night's meeting you asked about open space and the big green blob on the map and was that open space? Yes, it's open space, it's the sand prairie. Unfortunately, that sand prairie is not ... (End of side two, 02-34) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #36 Hansen: ...That means that that area can be developed. And I haven't seen any plans or whatever for that area but without it on the map this developer could very easily mn single-family homes tight back up against these buildings. And therefore the buffer you were talking about is not going to exist. It's not there. That would cover the distance from the current housing availability in that area. I've heard a lot, you know...I hear a lot about us being anti-business in this town and on this one proposal I've heard that, on several others I've heard that. And yet all these proposals that I hear this on have all been that either we change our laws and our codes or we're anti-business. And I'm getting tired of hearing about his kind of stuff. This developer bought this piece of land after the comprehensive plan was in place. And the people worked very hard to pm this plan in place and now he wants to change it. I want to know what your plan is if this whole thing goes wrong because if they decide to pull out a few years from now these are four bedroom apartments. What are you going to do with them? What are you going to do with them? Irvin, you have spent a lot of time in this district, talked about a lot of things. I think you've seen a lot but I don't think you understand what's going on. I really don't. Lehman: You need to wind this up, Jerry. Hansen: Okay. Put it...putting students in this large housing complex will not solve the problem, Irvin. They're still going to drive their cars to the downtown area, which is what you were talking about from the housing relation task force. Pfab: Okay. Hansen: You know they're going to drive their cars back out to these apartments too and quite frankly if they've been at the bars for a while, I don't want to drive on Gilbert Street. So I'm going to conclude it there even though I've got a lot more to talk about. Pfab: I have just one... Lehman: Thank you, Jerry. Pfab: ...one question, Jerry. You mentioned something about a not growing the staffofhousing inspectors from what to what? Did you have some numbers perhaps...? Hansen: I don't have the numbers for that. Pfab: Okay. Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #37 Kanner: And when you talk about growth, Jerry, are you talking about area of Iowa City or population growth? Hansen: Both, population, area. I mean, any way you want to put it this town has been growing and the number of inspectors we have are...they're maxed out right now. Right now we're on a complaint only basis. They can't be proactive. They don't have the time a date to be proactive. So without more people to enforce I don't know what you're going to do when there's a problem. O'Donnell: Thank you, Jerry. Kanner: Just point of information. The police force has gone up much higher percentage than the population. Hansen: Oh, I said that you've added a few police to the fome. I still don't think it's enough because if Weatherby has a problem, where I live, we pull people out of other neighborhoods. I've made calls where there was a fight right in front of my house in the street and 35 minutes later I still didn't have an officer there. So you tell me how thin we're stretched right now and then look at all the problems that could happen with this. Pfab: I... Lehman: We need to move on, Irvin. There's lots of folks that'd like to speak yet. Hansen: Thank you. Lehman: Thank you, Jerry. Steven Nelson: Steven Nelson, 1033 Sandusky Drive. I'll read a little bit more from a prepared comments and then I have a few additional comments to make. Iowa City has had experience with large apartments not all of which is favorable. First we had the Lakeside Apartments, upscale student housing. As it was sold and resold to different real estate holding companies problems developed, both social problems and the physical condition of the units. Iowa City saw the development of the Mark IV Apartments, now Pheasant Ridge, and the special...socia! problems that followed. Seville Apartments has had a more favorable success in part due to mostly local ownership. Although not a single complex, the development of apartments in the Broadway area of the South District has caused a strain on city police, fire ~nd social welfare groups. The creators of the South District Plan had ideas on using smaller diverse units in a general neighborhood setting as a way to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #38 minimize the problems by creating a unified community. Large apartment complexes were seen as a problem not a solution. Please give the district plan a chance. The South District...or the Southeast, if you want to include, has Lakeside Apartments and Broadway already. I don't think that area of town needs a third large apartment complex. We have problems already we're trying to clean up. Don't throw another one in and create it. The other thing I'd like to address, I've been in Iowa City long enough. Spring break was great the students are gone. I mean we complain about the students but the students are the reason our community is here. We need to take care of them. You put them outside of Iowa City and, excuse the phrase, animal houses on an animal farm, you're going to have problems. If we want students away from campus lets put them in smaller units, lets integrate them into our community, make them feel part of our society. You don't isolate them, put them in a complex isolated from the other people. That is not how we're going to get along with students. We're going to complain about them again if we treat them like that. Kanner: Steven, is them a compromise number of units between the large complex that they're proposing verses the 24 that's in the plan that would be more acceptable to you? Nelson: I can't give a qual...a reasonable answer. I mean I'm...this isn't my area of expertise. I don't know. I just,..most smaller units, you know, are...we have the six-plexes, eight-plexes now. I think developers are saying you need an eight-plex to make money. The South District Plan has multi-family units. They can build those there. We can get as many students in the South District as we want to put. We're just arguing let's not open up the issue of large apartment complexes in the City by putting all the students together in one complex. You don't solve problems that way you only create more. Kanner: Thank you. Lehman: Thank you. Lynne Nugent: My name is Lynne Nugent. I live at 2238 Davis Street. I'm a graduate student at the University and a renter. I personally would not live in the proposed housing development. I can get all the amenities that have been discussed on campus for free. IfI were an undergraduate I would be even less willing to live that far from downtown since downtown is where the action is for undergraduates as we all know. As a student, the neighborhood feel of' Iowa City is what my friends and I appreciate and what we look for in housing. We're here to be in a college town and all that that implies, not shut off from it even in a space described as a luxury apartment. I don't think that students are a This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #39 dangerous toxin that needs to be shunted off to the outskirts of town. I don't think that formulation is deserved and I don't think it's going to work. I don't think the students will go for it. Finally, as a student I'm no less concerned than other Iowa City citizens are about the environmental damage that may result from such a development being so near a sensitive sand dune prairie. Thanks. Lehman: Thank you. David Bywater: I'm David Bywater of211 Post Road. A long time viewer, a first time visitor. I wanted to talk about this project for just a second so that there wasn't only one person in the room that was in favor of it. So, tell you fight off the bat that I am in favor of the proposed program. I've listened to a lot of people visit this evening and comments have been very, very good. And it's great to have a dialog like this and know that you have them often. The one thing that I wanted to stick up for just a second was the student. We've done a lot of stereotyping this evening. And when I went to school I didn't always sleep and I didn't always relax with a Pepsi, as we talked about, and I didn't always live for convenience. I studied and I worked hard and I've participated in the scholastic events and I also lived off campus. And also lived offcampus in a larger apartment complex. And it was not a luxury unit, none the less. I was paying for part of it and that was the deal. We're assuming what the student driving patterns are going to be. We're assuming what the student shopping patterns are going to be. We're assuming what they're mass transit uses are going to be. But these people are our neighbors. These people are people who participate in our community. These people are folks that live here and interact with us. And what this project really represents is a choice for them. We've heard arguments about downtown and keeping the students there and rents and so forth and so on. I think anyone who took an honest assessment of our rents in the local area would argue that they are high. I think if you looked at the project in some positive reasons, you could see that they're...this does represent an option for students. They would utilize the mass transit system. The location is good from a standpoint there's a buffer related to it. From a city standpoint it would help us build the tax base which would allow for us to expand our services and provide the police protection and fire and other things that would help serve the community as a whole. And that overall that we would see some help downtown to preserve some of our residential treasures. We've labeled the lawyer in this conversation as well as a corporate...he's also one of your neighbors also. And overall I'd just like to summarize and say that this project does a number of good things for our community also. There are a number of complexes outside and around the neighborhoods and different places, even one close to my own apartment...or my own This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6b Page #40 house. In the situation with some of those other complexes that have been labeled such as Lakeside, those are good amenities for us as well. I'm a neighbor to Lakeside with my business. They're a won...they're a good neighbor from my standpoint. There's lots of neat things that happen over there. They're quiet and they participate in the community and I hope you give this project the consideration that it's due. Thank you. Lehman: Thank you. We're going to take one more and then we're going to close the hearing and go on to the next item which basically is going to be continuation of this item. BethKoppes: Hi. My name is Beth Koppes. Iliveat 1528 California Avenue. lam also a member of the P&Z. I just wanted to clear up the...my issues of why I voted against this. I was very wide-awake by the way, as in the comment that was made last night. I was uncomfortable opening up the comp plan for all of Iowa City. I mean if you open it up you're going to have major, large complexes everywhere and that concerned me greatly. When I started on the P&Z, a short 8 months ago, district plans were brought to me as a very important and we should follow the role, you know, try to stick with the district plans. The neighborhoods brought...were involved. They were...bought into them. We should at all cost try to stay with them. You know, of course, topographical and all that stuff does effect that. So know we're at a major complex and we want to change it and it just did not match the district plans. I didn't...I was involved in the Southwest District planning. I heard some of the comments prior that they were promised, you know, if you had a district plan we could help you. Well we have one in the South District. I think it should be stuck to. Thank you. Lehman: Thank you. Public hearing is closed. Karr: Do we have a motion to accept correspondence? O'Donnell: So moved. Vanderhoefi So moved. Lehman: Moved by O'Donnell, seconded by Vanderhoef to accept correspondence. All in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #41 ITEM NO. 6c. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE REZONING 17.64 ACRES FROM INTERIM DEVELOPMENT SINGLE FAMILY (ID-RS) AND INTERIM DEVELOPMENT MULIT-FAMILY (ID-RM) TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HOUSING OVERLAY-12 (OPDH-12) TO ALLOW 168 DWELLINGS IN 18 BUILDINGS LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF GILBERT STREET SOUTH OF NAPOLEON LANE. (REZ01-00024) Lehman: Public heating is open. Mac Jones: My name is Mac Jones. I live at 3215 Meredith Street, Austin, Texas, 78703. Just like to introduce who we are, give the...I know everyone's had...received the details and the particulars about this project in the packages. I'll hit the high points, answer any questions and I'll try to be very brief. Talk a little bit about who we are. The developer of this property is a Houston based company that's family owned, third generation owned. It's been in business for over 40 years. They've accounted for over 40,000 units of this kind. They've managed over 20,000 units of this kind. So they've been around the block a few times and have vast experience in the development, construction, and management of multi-family housing. Specific to student housing, DMC has been in the student housing business for about five years, developed about 4,000 units and manage all of those units, still own and manage all of those units today. Student housing is a phenomenon that came along late. Universities quit building housing but they kept growing and so the demand for off campus housing grew and grew and grew. In addition to that, existing housing surrounding major universities for the most part is somewhat older, dilapidated and today's student generally asks for a more luxury type product with amenities that fit a college student life style. And that's what we seek to provide. To date we've done 32 of these properties around the country, which are very similar in size and scope to what we propose here in Iowa City. They've all been very, very successful. And at each city we've heard that this is a new phenomenon, we're moving kids farther away from campus. And the truth is that there are kids that want to live far away from campus. And in a university of over 30,000 students certainly there are 650. So we feel like the marketing of this project is sound. Briefly we've contracted with Southgate Development to by 17, 17 1/2 acres located on South Gilbert Street. We propose 168 units to be located in 17 buildings which a clubhouse. Very briefly the amenities will include an on site clubhouse and leasing office, on site management which will reside on the property. There will be more than one adult manager at this property and there will also be student management as well. There will be a management team. We will provide shuttle service and the main reason for that is because current.., currently the bus system doesn't extend out to this This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #42 site and so long as they don't see a need out there we will continue to provide shuttle service. In our other properties the shuttles have been used extensively because very simply it's hard to park around campus, kids get on the bus. It will also have a computer lab, a study area, pool, a jogging trail, exercise facility, and game room. Each unit will include by the bed leases. Each bedroom will have a different lease with a different guarantor, a different set of parents that will guarantor this lease and provide some security not only for the payment of the lease but also for the behavior of the kids who live in it. Furniture, high speed intemet outlets, private patio and balconies, and additional telephone outlets will also be provided. Just a note about the site plan, a couple of notes about the site plan, which I know everybody's seen. We are providing 14 handicap spaces conforming to all ADA specifications. We'll have 2% accessible units. All the first floor traits will be adaptable. We've elected to donate over an acre and a half...actually 1.2 acres to parkland. And apparently the park land dedication department has accepted that donation should it go through. We're also providing a bus stop so in the instance that bus service does got out as far as we are there will be a bus stop in place and there will also be already built a place where they can turn around. We've worked with City Staff to change several aspects of our normal plan so there has been lots and lots of give and take as far as what you actually see here today some of which are town houses which front the prop...which front the major arterioles which this property sits on. We usually don't do townhouses. We feel it's going to be a more aesthetic appearance. 40%...or 40 foot landscape buffers from the front of each building and parking behind the buildings, not on the street, all of which we think will provide aesthetic benefits to this project. Lehman: You need to wind this up. Jones: Okay. Lehman: I mean, you can speak again but we really like to leave... Jones: I can? Lehman: ...the five minutes at a time. So... Jones: I guess I'll stop for now and come back. Lehman: That's fine. Jones: Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #43 Jim Quigley: Hi. My name is Jim Quigley and I live at 915 Pepper Drive, which is about...probably about six blocks as the crow flies from where this apartment complex would be. The concern I have in addition to what everyone else has spoken about is I'm worried about a domino effect or a ripple effect of this going in. You guys are saying that you're going to go ahead and throw out the comprehensive plan and you're also going to ignore what the Planning and Zoning have said. Lehman: We haven't said anything. Quigley: Well, if you vote for it. If you vote for it. What I'm worried about is is this going to drive a different set of building all along that development. I mean, the original plans that I've seen have everything else being sort of single and multi-family housing. But if this is a success are people going to say well maybe we should build another apartment complex next to that and maybe another one next to that and make the whole...that whole area turn into just apartments. And that's something that I'm a little bit worried about especially if this is a success. Thank you. Lehman: Thank you. Ann Bovbjerg: Ann Bovbjerg again. I'd like to address a few questions to this particular project. Some of you tonight and some of you last night were asking questions more or less rhetorically using particular numbers and particular points of view. And I would like you please to go back to your planning and...planning staff, to your planning and development staffpeople and find out what numbers they have for things like traffic, density, what could be built here if it is not this complex, because the numbers that I saw from the staff are different from the ones that I saw and hear when this came in front of Planning and Zoning. So please would you check on things like numbers of houses, numbers of car trips, whether or not a bus route could come down here, what a shuttle would be, where is the nearest bus route, what is the likelihood of people walking to a bus, what is the likelihood of there being shuttle, what's the likelihood of that being used? There are some numbers I think that should be checked out because they might make a difference in how you look at this. Before I mentioned that the definition of density, by state law, says population. People per acre or per whatever so we are talking about people living in Iowa City and what that impact is. This particular project is calling upon a planned development, the OPDH. Plan developments can be used for particular topographic or other kinds of features but they are not supposed to appreciably change the density of the area and they are not supposed to put burdens on the services that are already serving that area. So how you do a plan development is This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #44 very, very important to how the city functions. So I would like you to go back to your staff and find out what their estimates and what their knowledge is about all of these things before you make a decision. Lehman: Ann, I just have one question for you. Bovbjerg: Yes. Lehman: In our zoning codes when we refer to density do we refer to dwelling units or bedrooms? Bovbjerg: Dwelling units per acre has always been the definition. Lehman: Right. I mean, so...but I mean traditionally, ever since I've been on the Council for this is the ninth year, it has always been numbers of dwelling units whether they be single bedroom, two, three, four, or in recent years, five bedrooms. Bovbjerg: Right. Lehman: ...are considered a dwelling unit in computing density. Is that correct? Bovbjerg: Right. Lehman: Thank you. Bovbjerg: We got hung on that a few years ago because we had parking spaces per dwelling unit which was based on something else. But when you are considering the impact of land use, the technical definition of a dwelling unit is not the only thing you have to look at. Lehman: No, but that's in our code. That's what we use. Bovbjerg: Right, but the state law says population and other kinds of things. So, I think all of those definitions and all of those requirements should be part of your consideration here. Pfab: Ann? [Iovbjerg: Yes. Pfab: I have a question. You're looking at density per acre. Is that basically the terms you use? Well with as much green space and as much other space out there is that density going to be any higher? In other words, are you saying every square foot or are you saying the general area? If you say a general area, when you look at the amount of sensitive areas, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #45 green space, what part that there are no dwellings on it and you spread that over that whole area that's probably not going to be a very high density in that area. So, I mean, I don't...I have questions, I don't have answers for them. Champion: No. Bovbjerg: I would suggest that you look very carefully at the plans and... Pfab: But when you look...go ahead. Okay. That's my question. Champion: You know (can't understand). I feel like I have to say something because we have...I mean, Irvin's asking questions and Mr. Kanner's asked some questions and I thought our policy was to listen to the public. And I feel like the rest of us, people think we aren't interested because we're not asking questions. Are we going to be asking questions at public heating? Are we going to be asking questions when we discuss this matter ourselves? Vanderhoefi I would hope that we would have an opportunity to discuss it at a work session. Champion: Thank you. Lehman: I'm sure we will. This is going to be continued. Pfab: But these are the people that bring up the ideas and you... Lehman: Well, but...let's write the questions down. And I apologize. Kanner: Well people leave though, Emie and this is dialog. This is where I feel I get more out of it by asking questions and get a dialog instead of people just spewing information. That's...that's... LeRoy Bird: I think it's better to talk to us now than sitting back there in a little room and we don't know what you're saying. Kanner: Thanks, (can't understand). Bird: Really, I don't like your closed sessions. I like to know what you're thinking, what makes those wheels go around in your head and how your determining that. Now I'm either for or against this plan. I live out in that area but you've got to consider we've got bicyclists out there that you do not...have never taken care of. They go out there three, four, five across and we always have to watch for them. They have no taillights, they have no headlights, they're wearing black clothes a lot This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #46 of times. A gentleman just told me a few minutes ago that I don't read the paper but in 1956 or 1965, I don't know which it was. A gentleman in the Cedar Rapids Gazette had it in there this week that he said if we don't take a long term look at things and be energetic and really think forward, that our state is going to die. Well that's what I think Iowa City's doing right now is dying. I look at Coralville; it's growing leaps and bounds. If you don't start taking aggressive and quit letting the students take over downtown you're going to kill this town. And taverns is not the answer to it. Binge drinking is not the answer to it. Looking on Sunday at the puke on the floor...on the sidewalk is not the answer to it. I have stood at a jewelry shop on the mall and called for a policeman for a drunk and the police station is two blocks away and an hour and a half later they still have not come. The store or the jewelry shop called for them and they did not come. Now it's not a fact that we don't have the enough police people. For some reason communication falls down or they're just too dam lazy to get there. Now that's pretty blunt, I know, but that's the way I feel about it. Now that out there, if we...if anybody that loves that prairie, I'll give them some sand birds and I'll get some ground squirrels and give them to them and they can have part of it in their own back yard. Personally I would like to get rid of some of them. Lehman: Thank you. Larry Schnittjer: I will start a new page here. I'm Larry Schnittjer from MMS Consultants and I'm not currently designing this project but I've been involved with these folks trying to help them understand Iowa City and I sometimes have a problem with that myself. But one of...my comments are going to be related both to the comprehensive plan and this project. There have been several events over the last few years that have made a significant impact on this south area plan. And I'd like to back up just a minute and say that any plan until it is constructed needs to be a dynamic plan and not a static plan. As things evolve you need to be able to adjust and work with it. In this south area plan we found that the proposed arterial street wouldn't work without a significant environmental impact so it was decided to bring the arterial across the river at about the mid point of the site. Okay. We decided that was okay. We made the adjustments. A few years ago the Public Works Department found that this would be a good location for their public works facility. It's centrally located and when it becomes...when the arterial streets are eventually connected it will provide good access for public works all over the community. I was part of that design process that's why I know about it. Tonight we had a discussion about whether or not those arterial streets should extend through the middle of the site rather than on the perimeter. I've got my opinion. I don't think it needs to be addressed here. But these This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #47 are all things that we're doing to make this plan dynamic and it needs to be that way. Them are other issues like this apartment complex that we need to look at. This site is surrounded by non-residential type uses. It's got an area that the McCallister Family retained along its north and east property line. It's got a public works facility across the street and an arterial street and we don't know what the use is going to be on the other side of the arterial street on the south side. So it's not immediately adjacent to any existing future neighborhood. In fact existing neighborhood is a quarter mile away and fifty feet higher in the air. I don't know how you can create a more ideal environment for what some people consider to be somewhat questionable. But I think it's going to be a nice project. I've looked at it and I've looked at the project they've got in Ames. I sit in front of their driveway for a half an hour during change of classes. Those two buses came and let students out and only one car. Granted that may not be Iowa City but it gives you an idea of what can be. There's been concern about environment and turtles and what ever else. 90% of this proposed development area is either within the area that was disturbed by the trunk sewer or interceptor sewer or whatever we want to call it or cultivated land. So there's some possibility that there may be some turtles over part of the area but 90% of this tract is in existing disturbed area. There are not steep, critical or protected slopes on this site. The steepest slope is 12% which if you have a tape measure, and it's a little bit longer than this straight section here, would raise one foot in that section of that glass. That's not very steep. I'll shut up. Lehman: Thank you, Larry. Champion: Larry. Glenn Siders: My name is Glenn Siders. I'm with Southgate Development Company in Iowa City. We're the owner of the properties. Thank you for allowing us to participate in the conversation. There's been a lot of interesting comments. I particularly like those of Mr. Svoboda. It's nice to know what the competition's thinking. I'd like to talk to you about sensitive areas, environmental issues. This property has one environmental issue. It has hydric soils. Hydric soils are recognized in your sensitive areas ordinance. They do not in any way impede development. They simply impose different standards with which you put various infrastructure on. For example streets, most hydric soils you need to provide a road sub base under those streets. Sometimes you have to install your sanitary sewer or storm sewer a little bit differently but it's just design standards. It in now way imposes any obstacle in development. There are no prairies by your sensitive areas ordinance. There is in fact a sand hill that has the potential to have species of prairie grasses on those. We are working with the neighbors This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #48 to possibly reserve that area. We are a land developer. We're in the business to develop property. That's our intention with this property. But if we can work with the neighbors in restoring that area we are certainly happy to work that way. With the exception ofhydric soils, as far as the City ordinances goes there are no sensitive areas. There is a little critter out there called the ornate box turtle. Supposedly this turtle is out there. It has been known to be there in the past. It's not known if it even exists today. We are diligently working with the DNR to discover whether or not these turtles do exist. We are in the process of contracting with an environmental firm to do studies to see if there is a turtle population. If there is, where they may or may not hibernate on this property. It is believed by the DNR, if there's a turtle population, it is a low population but that is yet to be discovered. We've heard talk about how the DNR has said to the City they do not want rezoning. That in fact is not true. They sent the City a letter on th February 28 that asked the City to cooperate with them in every way possible and if permits were issued to keep the potential for the endangered species or threatened species in mind but in no way restricted or told the City Council they should not rezone any property. We in fact have talked about this particular apartment project and if there are...if there is a turtle population out there, could easily be worked around. We are aware that we are obligated to abide by any state regulation and we are willing and happy to do that. But it is a state regulation concerning the ornate box turtle. It does not mean that development needs to cease in this area. Every conversation we have the Department of Natural Resources, they say as you develop this property we want to work with you to protect this species. They are not anticipating development be stopped. The conversation about the sand prairie has been in existence for a long time. This property was on sale for eight years, was on the market. In 1992, the City of Iowa City was aware that there was a sand dune with potential prairie remnant on it. That was directed...there was a letter directed to the Planning Department before the South District Plan was developed. At that time it was the City's opinion that it was not important enough to deal with. But now that the developer comes in and wants to develop this property, it is now important that we have to deal with this. I'd be more than happy to talk to the City Council or answer any questions at a work session they might have concerning environmental features on this site. You also heard conversation about traffic on Gilbert Streets. In the staff reports you might have read how traffic along Gilbert Street...there's no funds to improve Gilbert Street. I believe in your capital expenditures project there is conversation about future improvements to Gilbert Street. I understand also that that has not been an approved (can't hear). What the staff can not tell you.., and they have to take the position that if the City does not have the money available to upgrade that street and if upgrades are requirement This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #49 they...this is the staffs positions that the developer has to impose 100% of that cost. Well that's bogus. We don't own property on both sides of the road so I would think that we would only be responsible for 50% of the cost at maximum. But non the less, the potential to negotiate some type of settlement has been done in the past, could be done in the future. And we would be more than willing to discuss that with the Council. You are the people that have to make that decision. You are the policy makers. The staff is not empowered to make that decision. But if upgrades are mandated, which I understand is still a debatable issue whether or not upgrades with this particular development is mandated at this time, that is a possible thing. So listening to the conversation that because the Gilbert Street needs upgraded is the reason you should deny this proposal I don't think is fair. With that I'll cease. Would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have in the future. I won't bother you with that now. Lehman: Thank you, Glenn. Champion: Thanks, Glenn. Steven Nelson: Steven Nelson, 1033 Sandusky Drive. I'd much rather talk about the sand prairie. I wasn't going to but I want to comment on a couple of Glen's points. The threatened box turtle. How important that is I don't know but it's been know about for a long time. This summer and this winter soils were...dirt was...fill dirt was put on top of the sand prairie. They knew about it. They didn't care about protecting them then so...and the City has done nothing. That dirt is still there. The DNR has looked and it and they said well it would do more damage to take it off than it is. But in the 97 comprehensive plan, that area is described as a sensitive area. It wasn't colored in on the City Comprehensive but just on South District Plan that it was there. So it's been know about. He commented them was letter in 92 to the City. It was described as a sensitive area in the 97 South District Plan. We've know the issues about these sand turtles for a long time but when something happens.., nothing has happened... Lehman: I think the... Nelson: That's all I want to say about it. Lehman: ...sensitive area was there because ofhydric soils. That we don't... Nelson: It's in the paragraph with the turtles. Lehman: We don't (can't hear)... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #50 Nelson: Maybe that's for the hydric soils but it's in the paragraph with... Lehman: Karin would have to answer this question for me but I don't think that we...box turtles are not part of our sensitive areas ordinance. It would not appear because of that even if we...the ground was covered with them. Nelson: Okay, I'll re-read the paragraph. Lehman: Okay. Nelson: But it's in the paragraph with the turtles (can't understand) I think, as I recall. My... Kanner: In the district plan perhaps... Nelson: The South District Plan... Dilkes: It's my understanding that the comprehensive plan... Nelson: On page three... Dilkes: ...deals with the... Nelson: It's probably in the appendix, near the back... Dilkes: ...sand prairie and the turtles. Nelson: ...on page three. My comments were going to be the apartment complex sounds great. I'm ready to move in. I'm not a student. What are you going to do? We talk about student housing but this isn't for students. This is for anybody who wants to live there unless we provide a mechanism for D.J. Hammon (sp?) to restrict it to students. University can build dorms, they can buy Mayflower Apartments, whatever. It's student housing. We build housing for elderly, only retired people live there. We have the Ecumenical Towers downtown, only elderly or handicapped will get into that place. If we're going to talk student housing, let's restrict it to students. But we can't do that so lets drop the discussion of student housing. It's an apartment complex. Maybe keyed towards the younger set but it's an apartment complex. And throughout the City it's mostly young who live in the apartment complexes. I mean student age or just after. That's who we're targeting. And let's call it an apartment complex cause that's what it is. Now the next point is the pet peeve of mine, we're talking about improvements along Sand Road. I live in the Sandusky storm water This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #51 retention area and I know what storm water retention areas can do to a neighborhood is not always good. The only thing when I read on this plan is storm water retention.., storm water would be detained off site. Water is off site. We're talking about 17 acres of land. A lot of it will have buildings, parking lots, recreational areas. Let's say we capture 12 acres of that 17 acres and in Iowa a rainstorm five inches over a five-hour period. That is over 5 acre-feet of water to be stored somewhere. We can't dump it in the River it's got to be further south. So...how much land are you going to set aside for storm water detention? Ten acres, fifteen, twenty acres? What are we gaining from this 17 acres if we take up 20 acres further down stream? Plus you have to move the water there. You're not going to move it on the ditches along Sand Road. You're going to need a dry creek or large sewer pipes, not huge ones, I'm sure 18/24 inches. You're going to have to put down some way to get the storm water from this site somewhere where it can be stored. And you probably don't want to store too deep, that's why it's going to take ten, fifteen, twenty acres to store five-acre feet of water. And that's another cost that probably the developer is not...or he's not proposing to take on. So I think the City is going to be stuck doing it. Now I'm a taxpayer here and that's not how I want all my money spent...tax money this property will generate, is having to develop another storm water detention area for this one particular area. Those are the main issues I want to discuss. Any other question? Lehman: I'm not positive but I think the developer is required to provide storm water detention. The City absolutely... Nelson: It says off site. Lehman: I may be off site... Nelson: He does it on... he doesn't own off site. Lehman: He has to make provision for that. The City is not involved. Nelson: What has he proposed? Lehman: You... let the developer tell us. Siders: That'd be me. Storm water detention is a requirement by the City that every developer in this community has to abide by. It's offtheir site. We're not providing the storm water detention pond on their 17 1/2 acres. We own 150 acres of property out there. It could be on our site south of their property or it could even be completely offour site on the neighboring property if they agree to put it there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #52 Lehman: But it's your responsibility. Siders: We are...It is our responsibility and we guarantee you that once we get to the plating stage we will provide that as required. And as everybody knows, we provide the storm sewer pipe, the streets, the sanitary sewer and everything to pipe that water there. Lehman: Thank you. Robyn Schrader: I won't keep you much longer. I really...I'm still stuck on...I'm reeling from something that Mr. Schinttjer said and I'm just going to remind you...I know you've heard me speak a number of times. You probably can't remember this but many months ago...it was probably more than a year. I was pregnant. I said that zoning and land use was designed to be a fluid and dynamic thing. That it was meant to flex and change with the needs of the community. And despite the fact that we had literally hundreds of signatures on a petition asking you to look at a particular piece of land in a different way you were unable to do that because you were bond by a certain expectation and rules that applied to that piece of property. So for me the question of turtles, soils, students is all very secondary to the fundamental question of are you going to enfome the rules for the average citizen like me or are you going to bend to the pressure of an aggressive developer? And I think that that is the big question that you really have to first and foremost consider when you're talking about the... (End of side one, 02-35) Mike Pugh: Mike Pugh, I'm a counsel for the developer. I feel compelled to comment on a couple of comments that were made, particularly the last comments by Ms. Schrader. One of the things that is material and significant about what she's talking about and what we're talking about here is that a comprehensive plan and a underlining zoning designation are two completely different things. The comprehensive plan is meant to act as policy, to act as guiding principals. The law is well settled that those plans are meant to change if municipalities feel that the circumstance warrant those particular change. That's much different than having an underlining zoning on apiece of property. I was involved in the Harlocke/Weber issue on behalf of another client and I remember sitting at these meetings and hearing what I thought were actually very legitimate arguments by that neighborhood association. But what those arguments were essentially was that we had an RM-44 zone immediately adjacent to a residential area. And I heard over and over again that the main concern of that neighborhood association was protecting the integrity of that particular neighborhood. And you This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #53 know what? This project here is exactly the type of project that Harlocke/Weber neighborhood should be for. Because what this does is...if you allow a complex like this...this complex is not going to intrude or prohibit the integrity of any residential neighborhood in and arotmd the neighborhood itself and it will help alleviate and help protect the integrity and stability of the older neighborhoods in or around downtown. The other comment I wanted to make was that there was some discussion about if you amend the plan you'd open up the entire city to apartment complexes. I think there is things that the City Council can do by the way of OPDH zoning and conditional zoning agreements to give the Council sufficient restrictions and controls over that issue. So, thank you. Lehman: Thank you. Larry Svoboda: Mr. Siders said that I don't like competition. That's not true. I have a lot of competition close in and it doesn't bother me once it's built according to what the zoning requires, what the requirements are. When I build an apartment building I make them into condominiums. That's plan B so in case...I plan to rent them out as apartments but if it doesn't work I've got something I can fall back on and sell them out separately as a condominium. Then I have another plan C I'm not going to get into that point. But I would like to ask these people and I would like to challenge to them if they...like the old saying is, build it and they will come. What if they don't? What if the kids decide that they don't what to live out there? What is plan B? I would like to know. Any good business program has a plan B and I would like to challenge them to tell us what that is. Thank you. Lehman: Thank you. Svoboda: The reason I'm bringing that up is because these are three and four bedroom units. One and two bedroom units would work in a variety of different ways but three and four bedrooms units is a tough program if it doesn't work out (can't hear). Kanner: Is there a plan B? Mac Jones: I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question. What was the question? Lehman: The question was what happens if the project is built and it's not occupied. In other words, nobody wants to rent from you. Champion: I don't think that's going to happen. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #54 Jones: Well we've got lenders and partners that would have a lot to say about that. I mean it would take...it would run it's course. I don't understand the... O'Donnell: How many of these units do you have around the country? How many projects? Jones: Of these type of units, we have 32 different projects. O'Donnell: And have you encountered this before? Jones: Absolutely not. O'donnell: Okay. Jones: The project is designed in such a way and marketed in such a way.., and this is to speak to another comment tonight that if you're not a student you're really not going to want to live here. And we...of course we can't prohibit anybody from living here but by...almost exclusively in the 32 properties that we have around the country we have 100% students. Lehman: What's your occupancy rate in those properties? Jones: Country wide ! would have to say that it would be about 95%. Can I go ahead and speak? Lehman: Please, go fight ahead. Jones: Just a couple of last comments and I appreciate the opportunity to speak tonight. Speak to a couple of things simply that have been said tonight. The taxing of additional City services, it was mentioned that we don't have the staff, that Iowa City doesn't have the staff to police these units and to inspect these units. Well this property is going to pay over $300,000 a year in property taxes and certainly there would be money there to hire additional inspectors I would think. There's also been some concern about you put 600 kids in one place and the drinking and the partying and the things that go along with college students would become exacerbated. And what we've seen is that the presence of this project is not going to increase these types of incidences. Students who are involved in this type of stuff are going to be involved, regardless of where they lived. You know we're not creating additional students we're simply providing an option of where different student can live. It can even be argued that as opposed to where some students are living now and creating incidents that if they're in a place that's secured, they provide security, where there's This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #55 more stringent leases and a zero tolerance policy like we have, that the problem can even be lessened. And that's been our experience. Thank you for your time tonight. Champion: Can you explain your zero tolerance policy please? Jones: Basically every...let's talk about the four bedroom unit. It seems to have come up a lot tonight. The four-bedroom unit has four different leases. Each kid is responsible for paying his own rent. Parents love this because it means that they.., if some kid takes off or if he drops out of school, they're not responsible for the whole rent. We like it too because there four different guarantors in every single unit. The zero tol...the zero policy turn off tolerance is very simply that one incident their parents are contacted. Another incident, they're gone. And we...you know, the obvious question is well what if you're not occupies? What if you're not doing so well? Well we just simply haven't had any problem in keeping these properties occupied and so evictions are not something that we're scared to do. Vanderhoefi I didn't have a chance to look at all of your materials today but earlier I had requested just a sample copy of some of your leases that we might be able to take a look at if you could provide that sometime. Jones: We got them here tonight. Vanderhoef: Are they in here? Jones: Yes, ma'am. Vanderhoefi Okay. Thank you. Kanner: Karin, I had a question for you for future discussion. First in regards to the prairie. There is not mention of it in the South Planning District that I could find. Is that correct? Franklin: I thought it was in there. Did you look in the appendix at the end and also in the text itself?. Kanner: Well I'm looking at Sycamore West area, the appendix A and I don't see it so maybe I overlooked it. Franklin: My recollection is that both the ornate box turtles and the sand prairie are mentioned the South District Plan. And you're saying you don't find it anywhere? Kanner: We say a sandy ridge is what I see here. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #56 Franklin: I don't have it memorized. I'll have to go back and look it up. Karmer: But...so...that leads to my point. In the east/west arterial road that we heard about before we have a guideline about referring to appendix A, this Appendix A. In a conditional zoning agreement could we do the same type of thing that would refer to appendix A and this language that's used here "that avoids to the extent possible sensitive environmental features of the land and important archeological sites. These are described more fully in Appendix A? Could that be part of a conditional zoning...re-zoning agreement? If we wanted to put that in there and negotiate that. Franklin: So you're suggesting that as part of the conditional zoning agreement we require that the development...what was your words? Avoid or... Kanner: Well this...at a minimum use the same wording as...that's used here for the proposed change in the comprehensive plan for the street, the arterial street. And that uses the word avoid. We might want to consider a stronger word if the Council so agreed to it. But at a minimum using this kind of language. Is that possible... Franklin: Yes. Kanner: ...to put in a conditional zone? Was that discussed? Franklin: I don't believe so. I don't think it was discussed at the Planning and Zoning Commission in terms of using that language. In fact, the Planning and Zoning Commission did not discuss this conditional zoning agreement in detail because they were recommending denial. So it wouldn't have gotten to that point. But the issue of concern about the sand prairie certainly came up during the commission discussions or the public input. Kanner: Well something that could be written in as a conditional zoning agreement. Franklin: Yeah. Kanner: Thank you. Lehman: We will be continuing this public heating two weeks from tonight on the 16th. This council... Vanderhoef: Move to continue the public hearing. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6c Page #57 Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef... Kanner: Second. Lehman: ...seconded by Kanner. All in favor? Opposed? The public hearing will be continued until the 16th of April, which is two weeks from tonight. Karr: Could we have a motion to accept correspondence? Vanderhoef: So moved. O'Donnell: So moved. Wilbum: Second. Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by O'Donnell. All in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. We're going to take five minutes, til 10 minutes ti110 and then we're resume. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6e Page #58 ITEM NO. 6e. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL, CN-1, ZONE TO BROADEN THE USES ALLOWED AND TO REVISE THE DIMENSIONAL REQUIREMENTS AND DESIGN PROVISIONS. Lehman: Public hearing is open. As I understand it this is an ordinance that will allow signs placed on private property in the... Champion: What are you talking about? Lehman: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm reading the wrong one. Champion: You're ahead of yourselfi Lehman: Public hearing is still open. O'Donnell: Are we adjourned? Lehman: No. Public hearing is closed. That's good. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #59 ITEM NO. 6g. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE REZONING 18.2 ACRES FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY, (RS-5) TO SENSITIVE AREAS OVERLAY LOW DENSITY SINGLE-FAMILY (OSA-5) AND A PRELIMINARY SENSITIVE AREAS DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR HICKORY HEIGHTS, A 20-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED WEST OF SCOTT BOULEVARD NEAR ITS INTERSECTION WITH DODGE STREET. (REZ01- 00028/SUB01-00031) (HRST CONSIDERATION) Vanderhoef: Move first consideration. O'Donnell: Second. Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion? O'Donnell: We weren't going to have the public heating? Lehman: We've already had the public hearing. Stacy Van Zante: I'm sorry... Lehman: Now if you wish to address whether or not the plan meets the requirements of the ordinance... Van Zante: That's what I'd like to address. Lehman: This is technical? Van Zante: Yes. Lehman: Okay. Van Zante: Yes. I would like to address that. I'm hoping I'm going to be addressing that. Lehman: If it's... Van Zante: You can tell me if I'm not. Lehman: I will. Van Zante: Okay, that's fine. Let me first start offby putting...My name is Stacy Van Zante. I live at 1168 Hotz Avenue and I'm a board member with the Friends of Hickory Hill Park. And we've been through this process with P&Z. And I want to say that we made a lot of strides with P&Z in this development and it's my understanding now with this This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #60 development there is what would be called a...like a building zone or construction zone wherein you can change the grade and do construction. And then there's a zone whereby you can not change the grade or do any construction. Is that correct? But that still doesfft address the steep slopes in the area and the possible erosion effects if you would have people go in and landscape in that area or put grass in. So I did pull off a copy of the sensitive areas ordinance off the intemet and I did see under item i, regulated slopes, that it does say minimized soil instability erosion and down stream siltation. And that's where I think that we do have some technical issues that the Council could address by possibly going a step further in that zone where there is no allowable construction and proposing a conservation easement. Perhaps not on the whole area but at least on the lower part of it to try and prevent them from...prevent the future land owners from pulling out the natural grasses that are there now that really help to mitigate the water and the erosion and putting in say like your average grass that you mow in your yard. I don't think that that's going to be effective enough to prevent the erosion. And if you walked in that area on the lower base of where that hill ends, there's a tremendous amount of erosion already created in that area. Lehman: I... Van Zante: And so I'm hoping... Go ahead. Lehman: Well I'd like Karin to add...if I'm not mistaken this has been brought up, as to what can be planted and what can't be. Franklin: Yeah, I'm searching the recesses of my mind here. My recollection is that the areas that are in the protected slopes, the critical slopes, the steep slopes, that is outside the construction area, there is a provision that those areas can be planted with certain kinds of plantings and those are to be there... Lehman: I remember... Franklin: Plantings that were identified in consultation with the Johnson County Soil Conservation Service that were plantings that have roots that go in and hold it to deal with exactly this issue. Dilkes: That's fight. Franklin: And that that's part of the conditions for this zoning. Dilkes: That's right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #61 Lehman: I think that's correct. Van Zante: Could I clarify? Is that then considered in essence a conservation easement...? Franklin: It is not a conservation easement technically speaking. It is a provision that is attached to the land that has certain requirements to it. But it's not the legal term ora conservation easement. Van Zante: Could I ask just why we didn't ask them to do the conservation easement since it's a right of the sensitive areas ordinance? Franklin: There was some debate about whether a conservation easement specifically for those slopes could be used as I recall. We felt that we were achieving the same thing through the provisions that were put in the conditions. The developer was reluctant to have it called a conservation easement because of the marketing of the lots. Van Zante: Okay. And then if somebody did go and maybe put in the wrong plantings it be the responsibility of the City to go and check that? So does the landowner...the future landowner have to submit some sort of document to the City? Franklin: The landowner would be on notice because this will be something that will mn with the land, with each of the lots that... Van Zante: When they buy it... Franklin: Yes. Van Zante: ...they'll be notified of those requirements? Franklin: They should get it through their title opinions. Dilkes: They'll get it...it's a note that actually appears on the plat and it'll be incorporated in the legal papers as I understand it. And the note on the plat, which I don't have in front of me, Mr. Pugh might, it goes beyond the language of the sensitive areas ordinance and actually identifies certain plantings that would provide that stability. Champion: Karin, is the erosion that is there now natural or is it caused by the construction that's going on now? Van Zante: Them is no construction in the area that I know now. Champion: I thought there was a house going up somewhere. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #62 Lehman: No. Van Zante: I think the erosion is caused somewhat by the trail that has been created by people walking down there, honestly. And the area that has been set aside for the open space includes part of that area that is eroding and it's...so it's not really going to mitigate the problem it's going to just continue to erode. In the comprehensive plan it mentions that a goal of the environmental protection is to reduce the use of toxic chemicals particularly lawn pesticides and to promote alternatives to toxic residential lawn chemicals. And I wonder if the City has any right to also impose that upon this particular area so that we don't get pesticides and things rushing down into the parkland, so that we can protect the grasses and the natural parts of the park. Dilkes: We don't have a regulation that does that. Simply because it's mentioned in the comprehensive plan does not mean it's a regulation we can impose on a property. Van Zante: So we don't really have any way to enforce this at this point? Dilkes: No. Van Zante: Okay. Thank you. Vanderhoefi Karin? Lehman: Thank you. Karr: Excuse me? Could I have your name for the record? Van Zante: Stacy Van Zante. Karr: Thank you. Van Zante: Thanks. Vanderhoefi Karin, I have a question that this brings up. Because we know that there's this area where they aren't supposed to plant certain kinds of things, how is a home owner going to know what they're grass line is and where they can no longer... Franklin: It's on the plat. Vanderhoef: Well it's on the plat but when I move into that house and I start doing my landscaping and so forth, is there any way that this is identified? I This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #63 mean we identified it on the plat but the home owner is going to go out there and say is this 60 feet from my house, is this 40 feet? You know. Dilkes: Most title examiners attach the plat specifically to the title opinion, call attention to the plat because it's the plat that identifies a number of things that homeowners need to be aware of such as utilities, easements, etc. So... Vanderhoef: I guess my question is about the practice verses being able to identify...sure I look at my plat but then when I'm... Dilkes: Well absent having a stake or something on every lot I don't know how else you can give...provide better notice to a homeowner as to where that line is other than on the plat. Lehman: The homeowner's responsible. Vanderhoefi They're responsible yes but... Kanner: Well I was thinking maybe we do need some sort of stake or notice that's easy to see because I think people do lose track of these things over the year. Champion: But developers do grade...the developers grade the yards don't they? No? They don't. Franklin: Not the developers, the builders. Champion: The builders, right that's... Pfab: Okay, if you're not allowed to do that according to this...or that you're allowed to build certain...to plant certain plants according to this list that goes with the land, is attached to the land, what are the mechanisms to stop someone from doing that? Are there penalties? Are there rules? Are there fines? Or how do you prot...how does the City protect the rest of it's park? Dilkes: Well we would have enforcement authority. Pfab: And what... Dilkes: By way of... Pfab: Where would I find that... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #64 Dilkes: By way of infraction, by...it would be included in the legal papers for purposes of... Pfab: Is it there now? Dilkes: It's on the plat right now, the note is on the plat and it'll be incorporated... Pfab: But what is the enfomement mechanism? Dilkes: Well there's a municipal infraction, environmental infraction process... Pfab: And how much... Dilkes: In terms of the... Pfab: What would it cost if say I bought a house out there and I decided I didn't want to follow what was on the list or I didn't know any better? Champion: You have to correct it. Dilkes: Well there are both monetary penalties as well as injunction penalties. Pfab: Are there... Dilkes: Requirements that they comply. Pfab: Who would enforce that? O'Donnell: Irvin, if you bought the house it would cost you to correct it if you violate it. Pfab: But I'm saying what are numbers? Where's the laws? Where would I go to the text to find that? Lehman: Well, Irvin, it's going to be on your plat. You're going to know if you break...if you don't follow the plat that you're going to be liable. I suspect that before you break the law you might want to 10ok at it. Pfab: But okay...so what's the incentive for me not to break it? Lehman: Because your neighbor's going to turn you in... Champion: (can't hear) change it. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #65 Lehman: ...and you're going to pay a fine. Pfab: How much fine? Champion: Well, it doesn't make any difference. Lehman: What difference does it make? Pfab: $3.50? Champion: You would have to correct it, Irvin. Lehman: I don't see the relevance. Pfab: No, no, no. I mean is the mechanism there in place now to do that? I don't know. Champion: You have to correct it. O'Donnell: You have to correct it and it could cost you a substantial amount of money. Champion: Or the City will come in and correct it for you... O'Donnell: And bill you. Champion: ...and you'll be billed. Kanner: (can't hear) Eleanor? Pfab: Is that part of the...is that the way it's enforced? Dilkes: No, it would be an infraction, a municipal infraction. Kanner: And what's the maximum penalty there? Dilkes: For environmental...if we did it as an environmental infraction, I think it's pretty hefty. It starts at...I'd have to look specifically. I think it's a $1,000 a day or something to that... Franklin: I want to say it's a $100 a day in these days a violation is what I was thinking. Dilkes: No with an environmental though. This might be an environmental infraction which starts higher at...here... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #66 Pfab: I mean, I don't need to have it now but I would just... Dilkes: Well, Irvin, let me just get it for you now. Kanner: But it is significant and apparently though it needs to be reported by someone in the neighborhood. Pfab: So it's by complaint only? Kanner: Apparently. Unless housing inspection saw it. P fab: Okay. Dilkes: Environmental infraction, 1000 each offense. If it wasn't classified as an environmental infraction it would be 100 first offense, 250 second and third and subsequent 500. I suspect we would start by calling it an environmental infraction. Pugh: Mike Pugh, I'm a... Lehman: Ask Mike. Pugh: ...counsel for the developer. I just want to make a couple clarifications of a couple of the issues that were raised. In terms of the area within the construction area there is...that can only be a graded but in accordance with the grading plan that's been approved by the City and has been submitted. So the developer or the building can't just grade there as they see fit. It's a specific grading plan that they need to follow. Outside of that construction area limit in protected slopes, property owners will be completely prohibited from doing any sort of development activity on those protected slopes. And in the ordinance, development activity is very broadly defined. You basically can't do anything. In the steep and critical slopes, the language that we referenced on the plat is right out of the ordinance in terms of the design standards from that ordinance. And that is not only going to appear on the plat itself, which puts the people...puts the public on notice, but it's also...we've agreed to put that in our subdividers agreement as well as in the restrictive covenants for the property. Champion: Thanks, Mike. Lehman: Thank you, Mike. Champion: Thanks. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #67 Lehman: Council discussion? Kanner: Eleanor, I had a question for you. In the...we're talking about the comprehensive plan about large apartment complexes and that we need...there's a feeling among staff that we need to change the comprehensive plan to allow large apartment complexes. Lehman: Were did you get that? Karmer: From the previous... Lehman: I don't think staff has recommended against that so I don't think it's fair to say... Dilkes: You mean there is a recommendation that if you are going to rezone for the apartment complex you need to change the comprehensive... Kanner: You need to change it. Dilkes: ...plan first. Right. Kanner: That's the feeling of staff. Lehman: Right. Kanner: Is it a different strength of argument then from the pesticide question? I'm trying to find out where it is in the comprehensive plan, about discouraging pesticides. Could one say that that is in the comprehensive plan and that is just as strong as a prohibition against large apartment buildings? Dilkes: Well I think that the difference is where we are procedurally. Here we are not talking about a rezoning. I mean we're talking about a sensitive area but that is an ordinance that has very specific regulations. In the apartment complex situation we're talking about doing a rezoning that is not in...that would not be in furtherance of the comprehensive plan. That's not the situation we're talking about here. Kanner: I guess I don't quite see the difference. You're saying because a sensitive areas ordinance is very specific that's the difference? Dilkes: We're...we are not talking about doing a rezoning here as we are in the situation with the apartment complex. Champion: The zoning is already there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #68 Dilkes: The zoning, the underlying zoning is in place. So we're not looking at that...at a zoning request and whether that request is in compliance with the comprehensive plan in this situation. Franklin: May I also...The comprehensive plan that you're referring to, the 1997 plan which has a number of statements about various goals of the City, some are broad some are more specific. The pesticide is more specific. Those have to, at some point, if you're going to carry out those policies, be implemented into a law. That has not been done with that particular provision of the comprehensive plan as both a legislative decisions of councils over time and then I believe there was a state law which pre-empted the local jurisdictions from having pesticide laws. So it was a goal in 1997. We have never been able to come to fruition on it. To say with a particular development then that this development is not in compliance with the comprehensive plan because it doesn't prohibit pesticides would be totally inappropriate. Pfab: I have one question when you get finished with that. Okay, just for the sake of public information, you talk about the...there are fines in the building process. In other words, if they grade the wrong stuff or whatever, the wrong dirt, what kind of fines are...how large are those fines? Champion: What difference does it make? Pfab: And how is it done? Can you maybe in simple terms tell me? Dilkes: An infraction is a violation of a City ordinance. We do municipal infractions all the time where we file a...essentially a complaint at the court house and the party who is being complained against is notified of that complaint and if things can't be worked out there is a hearing at the courthouse. And the judge at that time has a number of options available to him or her including the levying of a fine as provided by City ordinance or certain equitable or injunctive remedies. Pfab: Okay suppose that the judge decided to impose a fine, how large a fine would he... Dilkes: That's the one I just told you about which is an environmental infraction is .... Pfab: $100 a day? Dilkes: ...a $1,000 per offense. Pfab: It says $1,0007 This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6g Page #69 Dilkes: For an environmental infraction, which this might be characterized as. It probably would. Pfab: And you read that out these? Dilkes: Right. Pfab: Okay. I didn't hear you say that. So that was my... Dilkes: Yeah, sorry. Pfab: Okay. Lehman: Other Council discussion? I'm going to support this ordinance. I feel this is...for me it's a matter of law. We have set out the rules. The zoning is in place. They have met all the requirements set out by the Council. I think it's very important if we have rules and regulations and laws that we...the public has a right to expect that those laws and regulations will be enforced. And these are regulations. These are not comprehensive plans that give us a road map to go by. These are actual ordinances written in our code. They have complied with those regulations. I can see no reason in the world that we wouldn't pass this because they have complied. O'Dounell: I agree. Lehman: Other discussion? Roll call. Motion carries, 6/1, Pfab voting in the negative. Karr: Motion to accept correspondence? O'Donnell: So moved. Lehman: Moved by O'Donnell... Vanderhoef: Second. Lehman: ...seconded by Vanderhoef. All in favor? Motion carries. (all ayes) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6i Page #70 ITEM NO. 6i. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF STONE BRIDGE ESTATES, PARTS 2 - 4, A 13.98, 50-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED EAST OF CAMDEN ROAD NORTH OF COURT STREET. (SUB02-00001) Lehman: This will take three different motions. We need a resolution approving Part 2, 3 and 4. So the first resolution would be for Part 2. Vanderhoef: Move adoption of Part 1. Champion: Second. Lehman: Part 2, right? Vanderhoef: Or, Part 2. Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Champion. Discussion? Roll call. Motion carries. (7/0) We need a motion now to consider Part 3. Pfab: So moved. Lehman: Moved by Pfab. Champion: Second. Lehman: Seconded by Champion. Discussion? Roll call. Motion carries. (7/0). And a motion to approve Part 4. Champion: Move Part 4. O'Donnell: Second. Lehman: Moved by Champion, seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion? Roll call. Motion carries. (7/0) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6j Page #71 ITEM NO. 6j. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE EXTRATERRITORIAL PRELIMINARY PLAT OF LACINA MEADOWS, AN 80.13 ACRE, 23-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION LOCATED IN FRINGE AREA C WEST OF DANE ROAD, EAST OF NAPLES AVENUE AND NORTH OF OSAGE STREET. (SUB02-00004) O'Donnell: Move first consideration. Champion: Second. Lehman: Moved by O'Donnell, seconded by Champion. Discussion? Kanner: Karin, I had a question for you on this one. I didn't get to it yesterday. Is this subject to cluster design that we have in the amended fringe area agreement we did last year? Franklin: No, this was already zoned RS, so the zoning was in place for it. And it may meet some of the county's definition of cluster subdivision in that there's an open space that is included in it, in the western part of it. There's a significant open space there. Vanderhoef: These are all on septics so they take larger lots just to accommodate that. Franklin: Right, right. Vanderhoef: And I think there's about 32 acres. Franklin: Yeah, the cluster subdivision...the cluster design that's referred to in our fringe area agreement is what we can impose when we are looking at a rezoning or a development where it's not already zoned. They have in this particular area because...and it was already zoned RS, they had the fight to develop at one-acre lots. So it is not what we would call cluster design under our fringe agreement in which 20% or 50% or 80% depending upon where you are has to be set aside in open space. Pfab: Is there any common space...common area as far as open land? Franklin: Yes. Pfab: Okay, so there are...there is a neighborhood organization... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6j Page #72 Franklin: No. No. There's some open space that is part of the subdivision which you can see on your illustration but it does not necessarily have an association, a neighborhood association. Pfab: Okay, so there's land...but there is land that everyone has access to. Franklin: Yes there is land that everybody has access to. Pfab: Okay. Lehman: Other discussion? Kanner: Karin, is this helping to go against our comprehensive plan of compact development and this encourages sprawl? It's pretty far out there. It's got this one development to the east. Franklin: This is not a zoning decision. The zoning is in place. There are rights already put on the property by the fact that the zoning is in place. So we really don't have anything to say about whether it happens or not it's just a matter of reviewing the plat to see that the plat conforms with our requirements and this one does. Vanderhoefi And this is outside our sewerable growth rate. Franklin: Outside our growth area, yeah. It's a very different circumstance, Steven, when the...when the property is already zoned. I mean, it's very similar to the circumstances that you have sometime in the city where you don't have that much discretion when the zoning is already place.., in place and rights are already given to that land. Kanner: Why are we even looking at it? I mean what are the plat... Franklin: Under Iowa law... Kanner: ...the City (can't hear) standards. Franklin: ...the City has the right to review subdivision plats within two miles of its corporate limits if it passes an ordinance to that effect. We did that many, many years ago and so we review all plats that are done in the unincorporated part of the county within two miles of our corporate limits. And we do that so we can ensure that there's some standards that are being met for the subdivision of that land. Kanner: Thank you. Franklin: Okay? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #6j Page #73 Lehman: Any other discussion? Roll call. Motion passes, 6/1, Kanner voting in the negative. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #7 Page #74 ITEM NO. 7. PUBLIC HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE REGULATING AND RESTRICTING THE USE AND HEIGHT OF STRUCTURES AND OBJECTS OF NATURAL GROWTH IN THE VICINITY OF THE IOWA CITY MUNICIPAL AIRPORT BY CREATING APPROPRIATE ZONES AND ESTABLISHING BOUNDARIES THEREOF; DEFINING CERTAIN TERMS USED IN SAID ORDINANCE; REFERRING TO THE IOWA CITY MUNICIPAL AIRPORT ZONING MAP AS PART OF THE ORDINANCE; ESTABLISHING AN AIRPORT ZONING COMMISSION; ESTABLISHING AN AIRPORT ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT; PROVIDING FOR ENFORCEMENT AND IMPOSING PENALTIES. Lehman: Public hearing is open. We've been asked to close the hearing. The staff is going to be doing a significant amount of work on this. It will come back to us and we will have another heating. Public hearing is closed. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #8 Page #75 ITEM NO. 8. AMENDING TITLE 3, "CITY FINANCES, TAXATION AND FEES," CHAPTER 4, "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES, CHARGES, BONDS, FINES AND PENALTIES" OF THE CITY CODE, TO INCREASE PARKING FEES IN IOWA CITY, IOWA. Bb. Consider an ordinance (first consideration) Lehman: Do we have a motion? Champion: Moved. Lehman: Moved by Champion. Vanderhoefi Second. Lehman: Seconded by Vanderhoef. Discussion? O'Donnell: I'm going to support this because it's on the outskirts of the City. I have a problem increasing parking rates. I think there's a certain time to do it. And if this were in the downtown area I would not support it but I will support this. Champion: I think this is a...not on the outskirts. O'Donnell: Well it's in the... Lehman: Periphery of the downtown. Champion: But it's the same rate as downtown meters isn't it? So this...these are also covers the Linn Street area, the shopping areas over there. And I think sixty cents an hour is incredibly reasonable. I don't have any trouble supporting this. I think it's...I think our parking's very reasonable. Lehman: Other discussion? Roll call. Motion carries. (7/0) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #9 Page #76 ITEM NO. 9. RESOLUTION ACCEPTING pAyMENT OF $300.00 CIVIL PENALTY AND WAIVER OF RIGHT TO HEARING FROM NORTH DODGE EXPRESS. Lehman: We need a resolution approving. Vanderhoef: So moved. Kanner: Second. Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Kanner. Discussion? Roll call. Karr: This is the accepting payment. Lehman: Right. Roll call. Kanner: I'm sorry, I missed this. Karr: Okay, that's what I wanted to be sure. Kanner: Thank you. Champion: It's not really a heating is it? Kart: This is... Lehman: No. Kan': This is item 9 and it was originally a hearing and a resolution to access the penalty. But if you recall last night,... Lehman: Right. Karr: ...I informed you that the applicant had signed the waiver and paid the fee. So the resolution has changed to accepting the payment. Kanner: Did you pass out something tonight on that with the change? Champion: No, she told us last night. Wilbum: (can't hear) Karr: There is something... Lehman: There is something tonight too. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #9 Page #77 Karr: There is something tonight and you were informed last night. Yes. Kanner: Okay. Thank you. Okay, I got it now. Kart: Okay? Lehman: Motion carries. (7/0) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #10 Page #78 ITEM NO. 10. ASSESSING A $300.00 CIVIL PENALTY AGAINST MUMM'S SALOON AND EATERY, 21 WEST BENTON STREET, PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE SECTION 453A.22(2). a. Hearing Andy Chappell: Evening. The next three items...I'll try to keep this brief...are all hearings under Section 453A.22 of the Iowa Code where we're assessing...where we're asking that the Council assess civil penalties against three different businesses based on their employees selling or providing tobacco to a minor. In the first instance with regard to Mumm's Saloon and Eatery, I can go into the details if you want. Essentially the...there was an employee there that was charged and either pled guilty or was convicted of providing.., selling or providing tobacco to a minor. Based on that fact, I believe that the Council should assess a $300 civil penalty against Mumm's Eatery and Saloon pursuant to section 453A.22. Lehman: Questions? Champion: Are we going to do all three of them at once? Pfab: No. Dilkes: No. Lehman: I don't think we can. We have to do them one at a time. b. Consider A Resolution Vanderhoef: Okay. Move the resolution to accept...or access the penalty. Wilbum: Second. Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef, seconded by Wilbum. Is it necessary that we open and close this? Champion: Is there anybody here to speak to this? Dilkes: No, I think you just want to make sure that there's nobody here to speak to it. Lehman: Is there anyone here to speak to this from the public? Dilkes: Not from the public. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. # 10 Page #79 Lehman: Oh, not from the public. Dilkes: From Mumm's. Lehman: Is the.., from Mumm's. O'Donnell: He was here earlier but he had to leave. Lehman: All right. We have a motion and a second. Discussion? Roll call. Motion carries. (7/0) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #11 Page #80 ITEM NO. 11. ASSESSING A CIVIL PENALTY OF 30-DAY PERMIT SUSPENSION FOR DEADWOOD TAVERN, 6 S. DUBUQUE STREET, PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE SECTION 453A.22(2). a, Hearing Lehman: Hearing is open. Andy Chappell: With respect to the Deadwood, we have a similar situation in that an employee was also charged and either pled guilty or was convicted of selling/providing tobacco to a minor. It's 'a little different though because the Deadwood within the past two years has a prior civil penalty assessed against them. I'm requesting that...and recommending actually that the Council impose a 30-day suspension of the retail cigarette permit. Lehman: Okay. Questions? Dilkes: And we've got a copy of the conviction, I believe,... Kanner: I've got a couple questions. Dilkes: ... for the record. Kanner: Is this a... from a cigarette machine that change or something was given? Chappell: Yeah. It...this...with most of the bars what happens is you have a, you know, a cigarette machine. And what the underage person is asked to do, you have the officer who comes in first, then the underage person. The underage person goes up to the bar and requests specifically change for the cigarette machine. If the change is then provided they go purchase the tobacco product from the machine and then they're charged with providing...selling or providing tobacco to a minor. The fact is there's another code section which also would initiate the civil penalty which essentially indicates that these machines should not even be accessible to someone under the age of 18. So the fact that they're even accessible would be enough. Inthis case they've specifically requested change to purchase cigarettes and have been provided by the bartender. And that's the basis. Kanner: Two other questions following up on that. Does the law allow harsher penalties than just the 30-day suspension and I ask that with the thought that closing their machine down for 30 days isn't much of a penalty. I can't imagine they make a great deal of money from that. Is there...is it possible to levy a fine in addition? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #11 Page #81 Chappell: No. What we're dealing with here are civil penalties... (End of side two, 02-35) Chappell: That's why the first civil penalty assessed against the Deadwood was for $300 monetary penalty. The second one...the one being the 30 day suspension. The third, I believe, is a 60 day suspension and I think the fourth it's the third within three years and I think the fourth, if you get that far, is a revocation. So, it's a graduated...the answer is yes and no. Yes there are more stringent penalties, but no not for a second violation. Wilbum: Is the third within two years as well? Is the third... Wilbum: The third is within three years I think. I don't have it off the top of my head, but I think it's the third within three years. Kanner: And just for my knowledge, I know that some of the people that we've initiated civil penalties against qualify for getting harsher penalties but we've decided to start at a certain point in time. I think the A & J MiniMart had three penalties and we only started at a time when since there they've had two. Does Deadwood have more than two in the previous two years? Chappell: To clarify the only time that we've done that, and Deadwood is one of those, this is technically the third time their name has come before you. What happens though as we got this process started and sort of got the ball rolling your enforcement, your police officers, being very efficient were able to do a second check prior to a..the initial civil penalty being assessed. So, essentially, it was a second offense, but the problem was their hadn't really been a...at the time the second offense was committed they hadn't been assessed with any civil penalty. Given that case, it kind of opens up a whole can of due process questions and we thought it would be more appropriate to go ahead and move that penalty through as an additional first. It wasn't really a...we've been consistent every time we've done that we don't believe that's going to happen again because we were a little better spaced now on the enforcement end and we've gotten caught up with the civil with moving with the civil penalties. But, you are correct in that this is the third time you've seen Deadwood Taverns name before you. The first two were however then...the second one, if you will, came...the second conviction came prior to the first penalty being assessed. If you follow. Kanner: Uh huh. Thanks. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #11 Page #82 Lehman: Okay? Dilkes: Just so you're clear. I just want to make sure that we're clear about the penalties. First violation is the $300 penalty. Second violation within a period of two years it's suspension for 30 days. Third violation within a period of five years it's a suspension of 60 days. Fourth violation within a period of five years revocation. b. Consider A Resolution Lehman: Okay. Roll call. Dilkes: O'Donnell? Karr: Sorry do we have a motion on the floor? Vanderhoef: Moved. Wilbum: Second. Lehman: We do now. Moved by Vanderhoef, second by Wilbum. Roll call. Motion carries (6/1), Champion voting in the negative. Champion: I was going to discuss why, but I'll do it at the next one. Dilkes: Let me just, let me note then the statute really gives you little discretion. It says "shall assess the civil penalties"... Champion: Okay, I'll change my vote to yes. I don't want to end up in court. Lehman: We will restate that as passes (7/0), Champion voting in the affirmative. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #12 Page #83 ITEM NO. 12. ASSESSING A CIVIL PENALTY OF 30-DAY PERMIT SUSPENSION FOR CITY NEWS & BOODS. 113 IOWA AVENUE PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE SECTION 453A.22(2). a. Hearing Lehman: Item No. 12 assessing a civil penalty of 30 day permit suspension for City News & Books, 113 Iowa Avenue, pursuant to Iowa code section 453A.22(2). Chappell: With regard to City News again same scenario there was a conviction of selling tobacco products to a minor. This is a true second occurrence and I...based on the prior, I believe, I recommend that the council adopt a 30 day suspension of the permit. I think we have someone here to speak. Lehman: Question for you first. Chappell: Yes? Lehman: Both of these citations have resulted in convictions, is that correct? Chappell: Yes. They are either convicted or they've plead guilty which is considered a conviction. Lehman: Alright. Fine. Katie Anthony: I'm Katie Anthony. I'm the manager at City News. I don't have a really an argument against the citation that we received or against the civil penalty of the 30 day permit suspension. My employee sold cigarettes to a minor and it was a second offense and I don't dispute this. The real reason I'm here is to request some leniency on the part of the council as far as when our 30 day suspension should occur. I'd like to request a certain period of time for that suspension preferably the month of June if that would be agreeable. It's a time when sales are typically low. Us being a small business, it would hurt us the least if we could opt for suspension during that time. This violation occurred last October and I was kind of anticipating that we would have our license suspended during the winter break - December and January. So, it's kind of dragged on for whatever reason. But, that also would have been a good time for us to enact the 30 day suspension. I don't know if that's...you know I've talked to the county and city attorneys about it and they suggest that I come here and talk about it. I don't know what's in the books as far as assessing that penalty. If there's a time frame or not. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #12 Page #84 Dilkes: I don't think you're prevented from setting a different time for the suspension. The way the current...the resolution now reads and the ones that you've passed already read is that the permit must be surrendered within 10 days of the date you pass the resolution and then upon surrender the 30 days suspension will start. If you are going to do something different than that I think that you just need to be aware that sets a certain precedent that's something that you are willing to consider in the future. And you're going to need to amend the resolution to say...the permit will be suspended by a certain date. Wilbum: Considering your request for essentially a delayed...a deferral for when this begins, I guess I would ask what measures have you taken to train or educate your employees about not selling cigarettes to minors? Anthony: I've actually...this is the second time in the six years that I've been the manager at City News that we have actually had been you know whatever ever... Dilkes: Cited. Anthony: Cited. Thank you. We have actually called the police before all the cigarette laws came out and you know the under 27 laws. We've actually called the police from City News to tell the police that there were minors outside asking people who were of age to come in and buy cigarettes for them and that back at time when the police just said, "What are you calling us for?" because it wasn't a big deal then. We've been very... I'm very strict with my employees about selling cigarettes to minors. These were just two situations that...The first offense was very much an employee that wasn't paying attention. The second was...we have one person working at night. It was 9:15 at night and he was stocking the pop coolers. They were...he was in the back room and someone came in and he was trying to get his job done and he was a minor buying cigarettes and he was ticketed at that point. Since then...again I've reiterated the laws it's the employee's responsibility to pay for their own ticket. The store pays for the $300 fine for the first case. And everyone is very aware of the gravity of selling cigarettes to minors. Wilburn: So, you discuss this during hire, or? Anthony: During hire, and consistently, you know...it's just part of our everyday conversation. I mean when I'm at the register I make sure I card so that the other employees see that it's an important part of their job. Wilbum: Okay. Thank you for answering that. I'm asking these questions because I just wanted council to think about since this would be setting This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #12 Page #85 some type of precedent as to we would consider these types of requests in the future. What does council think that efforts by the employer to work with their staff...the employees to not do these or to educate, or to post the little signs that say if your birthday is not before this date you can't buy cigarettes. Are those factors that council would consider? Lehman: Let's... Are there other questions for Katie first? Champion: Well, I know that Katie is not...It's not part of her business to sell cigarettes to minors any more than it's HyVee's business to sell liquor to minors. There are places in town where minors know where to go to get those things and City News is not one of them. And the only thing that bothers me about this law...I don't think that I have any desire to sell cigarettes to anybody, but the only thing that bothers me about this law is that it becomes...because it's one of those laws that the person who is committing the crime is not the one who is punished. And that bothers me about this whole premise. Now if this is an employee who she had and it was the second time that he sold cigarettes then I think that that employee should be fired or pay the fine or penalty themselves. But instead this law prosecuting the offender who is the person who sold the cigarettes it prosecutes people no matter how well you train your employees they might make mistakes. I don't know how you protect yourself as a business owner from doing that because you cannot be there 24 hours a day. So the whole...the law bothers me from that standpoint. I'm not saying about the assessment. I think the person who sold the cigarettes ought to be the one that's fined and I don't know how you do that. Because you can't do it with alcohol, you can't do it with cigarettes. I don't know how you do it, but that it why I was going to vote no. It's not because I don't think they should be assessed a penalty because I don't like the way people are punished who aren't responsible for the crime. Kanner: Well, they are Connie. b. Consider A Resolution Lehman: Let's have a motion so we can discuss this appropriately. Do we have a motion? Kanner: Moved. Lehman: Moved by Kanner. Vanderhoefi Second. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #12 Page #86 Lehman: Seconded by Vanderhoef. Okay, now. Champion: I don't know, Steven, I taught my kids they're responsible for their behavior, not me. Kanner: No, no they go to court. The people who actually sell the cigarettes go to court and... O'Dounell: What is the fine to the person who sells the cigarettes? Chappell: I believe the fines assessment plus surcharges comes up to $145 Dilkes: That's right. Kanner: Quite significant. I had a question for you. Chappell: Yeah. Kanner: This did take quite a bit of time after the conviction of the employee - November 20th. What's the usual time schedule and why did this one take longer than the other one? Chappell: We don't have a usual time schedule if you will to be honest. I try to get as many as I can in a group because there are other things that I'm responsible for and in our office with the county and so I try to get enough of these up so its worth the council's time and to be quite honest, it's worth my office's time to push a bunch through at one time. As to why this particular one wasn't started until...I can't answer. But, I think you'll see that the times of the convictions will vary. It looks like, I think that the actual violation Kanner: The conviction was November 20th. Chappell: I understand the conviction. I think the actual violation occurred in just October 24. That's a real quick turn around. That means essentially the person came in and voluntarily plead. Now if this person doesn't come in and voluntarily plead it gets set for a hearing date in the magistrate's court which is going to be several months out. Any one of the others...any one of the other ones that came through at that time may well have gone through and run its course. That's a pretty quick turnaround on the plea. Kanner: Could the store owner or manager have voluntarily given up their license after the conviction of their employee before it came to our attention or our review? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #12 Page #87 Chappell: Nope. IfI understand your question, no penalty would have been assessed. Had a store owner called me and said can we fast track this I'm anxious to get my civil penalty out of the way, I certainly would have attempted to accommodate that. But, I don't know that a voluntary... Vanderhoef: Surrender. Chappell: Good question for Ms. Dilkes as to whether a voluntarily giving up your permit prior to a penalty being assessed would satisfy your requirement, but... Dilkes: Well, I think there would have to be a notification. I mean you're notification would have to come and there'd have to be a meeting of the minds that there was a penalty. So, at least the process has to start. Andy had said that he would fast-track that if someone was interested in getting their penalty served, but... Lehman: Well, my understanding is the statement says that the permit shall be suspended by 30 days. The only issue for us is whether or not we wish to make that...the provision is for it to start 10 days after our action, is that correct? Chappell: There actually is no provision that's as to when it starts. I don't have any information that you can't choose when your civil penalty starts. I'm certainly not arguing that...arguing against the business owner's proposition. That is something that is for you to consider. The 10 days is we need to pick something because your city clerk needs...understandably so need resolutions. You need to pass resolutions. We need to get those drafted. If you tell me that from here on until the end of eternity, you want these to say within 60 days you come and turn in, that's what we'll do. There's no... Lehman: I would personally feel that we need a standard sort of policy. One of the things that I've heard some criticism about is when a bar owner for example has to be closed and they are able to pick a time when they're not doing business or pick a time when they close they actually close their bar and serve their suspension. And I think that a policy that is sure and swift and in X number of days after we pass and that is the time it will take effect. It would eliminate us dealing with the timing issue and literally every single, every single person is going to have the suspension is going to want one time rather than another and I certainly, certainly feel for the business person. On the other hand employees are just as...when an employee serves alcohol in a bar, the bar is held responsible and the same thing has to, fortunately or unfortunately, is the same thing with cigarettes. So, I would propose This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #12 Page #88 that council would agree that we would set a certain time that it be I0 days, 20 days, whatever it happens to be, but that be the standard that we use. Pfab: I have a question. Vanderhoefi Marian, do you have any - with the flow of paper that goes through your office - do you have any recommendation of what works best for you? Karr: When Andy and I chatted about this, because there is no provision it became a procedural question. We came up with the 10 days for two basic reasons. One we again as the mayor just stated we had recollected your intent to be speedy and quick in resolving these. We also realized that we wanted to give due notice to the applicant and in a couple of cases this evening he may not have been here and may not have had the availability to watch it on T.V. So we wanted to be able to process the paperwork, mail them the notice, give them ample time to bring the permit down and so we picked 10 days. That is no problem. It can certainly be longer. Again we were thinking of the response to doing it in a timely fashion. It could be shorter. I probably wouldn't recommend less than five days notice because I don't think its timely enough fashion to get it turned around to both Andy's office and mine and alert police if we need to if they fail to bring it in. That's where the 10 came up with. Dilkes: I think even going shorter than 10 is not good enough. Vanderhoef: That wasn't my intent. It was just... Kan': That's where the 10 came up with. Vanderhoef: Having staggered ones would be a real headache, I would think. And I think that's not what I want to entertain at all. So, I'm okay at leaving it at 10 days. Pfab: I have two questions for Eleanor. Could you read that what it states there one more time? And then I have another question on how that's worded. Dilkes: Do you want me to read the whole_the whole thing again? Pfab: Mainly the times Dilkes: The times? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #12 Page #89 Pfab: The times part. That's the part. Dilkes: Okay. The first violation it's a $300 civil penalty. Second within a period of two years it's a suspension for 30 days. Third within five years suspension for 60 days. Fourth within five years revocation of the pemait. Pfab: What...I'm sorry. The part of the time that I meant was the 10 days and how was that worded? Dilkes: Oh, in the resolution? Pfab: Right, the resolution. Dilkes: The way we currently have the resolution worded is that the permit must be surrendered to the City Clerk within 10 days of your action. So within 10 days of tonight and then the suspension takes affect upon the surrender. Pfab: Okay then 10 days. Dilkes: They'd have to give it to the Clerk within 10 days and then its 30 days from the point they give it to the Clerk. Pfab: Okay, then I have one other question. How many cigarette permits are in the city? Kan': 88 Pfab: 88? Good job. Lehman: I think it's 87. Karr: Could be. Lehman: How many box turtles? Chappell: Can I just ask you, which year of the code do you have there. Dilkes: 453A. Chappell: No which year of publication? Dilkes: Gosh, do I have the wrong code? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #12 Page #90 Chappell: I just wanted to state, my copy of the code, I have 2001 Section 453A22 does require that the second violation is within 30 days...or the second violation within two years, the third violation within a period of three years. Dilkes: Okay, that's right. Chappell: ..and the fourth violation within a period of three years. Since we're talking on the record, I just wanted to make sure that anyone out there knows what the standards Dilkes: Very good. We should get our current code up here. Thanks. Lehman: Okay. Other discussion? Kanner: Ernie? Lehman: Yes? Kanner: For future discussion, perhaps, is that we ought to standardize certain period of time that you'll bring the case to us. Hopefully a time period that doesn't bring an undue burden, perhaps like two months or something like that, something that seems reasonable. And then if you can't fulfill that perhaps give us notice. So that we have that consistency on both ends of the ordinance. Lehman: I would agree with you, but I think in the total scheme of things if I worked for the County Attomey's office there are certain crimes and things that they deal with that are far more serious than cigarette permit violations and if it happens to be six weeks or three months or whatever, I guess, I don't have a real problem with that. Dilkes: I think also that we're appreciative that the County Attorney's office is willing to do this. And so we need to be mindful of their priorities as well. Kanner: I realize that and that's why we could put in like the Police Citizen's Review Board can give notice or request for additional time. I think that its...we have a ease here of someone who felt something was going to happen and there was no policy set down it might have helped guide the license holders of the future. Dilkes: I think the difference is that you have some control over the Police Citizen's Review Board. You don't exercise control over the county attorney's office. I'll let Mr. Chappell speak. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #12 Page #91 Chappell: IfI can just speak for the county attomey's office. We've been requested and are not complaining about doing this. We believe it's important...and important part of the county attorney's office is trying to reduce sales to minors. And we believe this is an important part of that, so we certainly aren't complaining about doing it. I think that that...it's very reasonable to try to make sure that any time one of these comes in we get them done in a reasonable amount of time. We've grouped them, I we have grouped them in the past out of attempt to keep these from appearing on your agenda essentially every two weeks. If that's not the council's preference and you would prefer to make sure that we get a more regular turnaround every time a conviction is entered I can certainly do that. I can certainly endeavor to get that turnaround better. The fact is that's fine with me, but they're going to appear on your agenda much more frequently if we do it that way. And that's fine I just... Vanderhoefi And I appreciate the fact that you've been here for how many hours tonight before we got to these. So, coming every two weeks for one. I don't think that's good use of our county attorney. Kanner: I don't think that it has to be and either/or proposition of either no time or every two weeks. There could be, if you give a time period of two to three month, you can still compile. But, it's not a big issue for me. Lehman: Okay. Any further discussion? Roll call. Motion carries. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. # 14 Page #92 ITEM NO. 14. AMENDING TITLE 3, ENTITLED "CITY FINANCES, TAXATION AND FEES," CHAPTER 4, ENTITLED "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES, CHARGES BONDS, FINES AND PENALTIES," ARTICLE 5, ENTITLED "SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL," OF THE CITY CODE TO INCREASE CERTAIN SOLID WASTE CHARGES. a. Public Hearing Lehman: Okay item number 14. Amending title 3, entitled "City Finances, Taxation and Fees," Chapter 4 entitled "Schedule of fees, rates, charges bonds, Fines and Penalties," Article 5 entitled "Solid Waste Disposal," of the cit code to increase certain waste charges. Public hearing is open. I think that the change is a net increase of Vanderhoef: It's $2.00 for appliance collection. It's going up from $18.00 to $20.00 and solid waste collection is up 80 cents from $8.20 to $9.00 minimum. And curb side recycling per unit is going from $2.80 to $3.10. Lehman: So, it's a total of $1.10 at most. Vanderhoefi Two dollars... Lehman: $1.10. Vanderhoef: Yeah, $1.10 for that and... Lehman: And this is the first time that that has been increased since when? Atkins: '92. Lehman: And there was a reduction. Atkins: '96 we reduced it. Lehman: So, four years ago. Pfab: I have question when everyone... Lehman: Did I open the public heating? O'Donnell: I can't remember? Lehman: Public heating is closed. Discussion, please. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #14 Page #93 b. Consider an Ordinance Dilkes: Do you want to move to consideration? Kanner: Move the ordinance. Lehman: We have a motion by Mr. Kanner. Champion: Oh my gosh. Lehman: Seconded by... Vanderhoef: Yes. Lehman: ...Mrs. Vanderhoef. Discussion. Now Irvin. Pfab: Okay. Is part of the increase...or where does the...or what's the state of the city implementing these large waste containers? Is this part... Atkins: We're out to bid. Pfab: Okay, but is this increase going to pay for those or what's the story. Atkins: The increase is...it hasn't been increased in ten years and there's been a number of factors obviously. Our labor payments, the cost of operations. Probably the biggest experience factor with respect to cost has been our worker compensation claims which are charged against this account. We have a reserve. We were going to use that reserve in order to pay for the purchase of the containers of the experiment that going to be done. This new schedule will allow us to keep that reserve at a level that if you remember less than a year ago price of fuel spiked. Well, we didn't come back to you for rate increases, we just charged it against the reserve and then we're able to replenish that over a period of time. O'Donnell: So, this is a package deal? Atkins: It's very much a package deal. This keeps the fund healthy. And it's been ten years since we've had one. Pfab: I have...I'm basically opposed to the method we're going to use for this experiment. Atkins: Yes, I know you are. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #14 Page #94 Pfab: I'm opposed to the fact that we're going to put them out in relatively new taxpayers. Lehman: We're talking about the rates here though. We're not talking about the new collection system. Pfab: So, I'm going to vote no then. Lehman: All right. Pfab: If that's the only option I have, then I'm voting no. Lehman: No, you could vote yes. Is there any discussion relevant to the rate? Roll call. Motion carries, (6/1). Pfab voting the negative. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #16 Page #95 ITEM NO. 16. NOT TO EXCEED $8,480,000 GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS (FOR ESSENTIAL CORPORATE PURPOSE) OF IOWA CITY, IOWA. a. Public Hearing Lehman: Item number 16 not to exceed $8,480,000 general obligation bonds (for essential corporate purpose) of Iowa City. Public discussion is open. Public heating is closed. Do we have a motion? b. Consider A Resolution Vanderhoef: Move the resolution. Pfab: Second. Lehman: Moved by Vanderhoef. Seconded by Pfab. Kanner: I had a question for Steve. Now we have these different issues and then we have an advertisement. Atkins: Yes. Kanner: The issues add up to about 10 million? Atkins: The issues will add up to a total of $29.1 million dollars. That's everything. Kanner: I guess I don't see... Atkins: Item 21 is the final concluding resolution authorizing the sale of $29.1 Kanner: But the ones preceding that add up the $10 million. Atkins: That would seem about right. Kanner: I don't follow that. We have $10 million. Atkins: $10 million dollars of bonds which you have authorized. You have $18.4 million dollars worth in bonds the public has authorized through a referendum. It's a different process when the public approves a bond as to opposed to your power to initiate a bond. But, when we go to sell them they bring them together. That's how it works. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #16 Page #96 Kanner: Okay. And so you were telling us yesterday, this $10 million that we're going to be approving tonight. You're going to attempt to sell at 10-year payback. Atkins: 1 O-year payback that's right. Kanner: That is not part of the resolution? Atkins: No. That's how we schedule it. I wanted you to be aware of what we are doing. We do that on the advice of our bond counsel and our financial advisors. I wanted you to be aware of what we are trying to do. Pfab: It brings up one question. Are you finished? Kanner: Well, the bond...you mentioned the bond counsel. Now the bond counsel is acting in accordance with the philosophy that the counsel and you have set and I'm trying to maintain a triple A rating. Is that how they're acting? We're not operating on some other absolute? Atkins: No, no. They operate...they are our advisors and it is always been my understanding that you always want the best possible credit rating and that going into this the bond counsel knows we happen to enjoy a triple A well folks it's bond issue to bond issue. I mean it's something that you have to continually improve yourself and he, our bond counsel, operates under the premise that we wish to preserve that credit rating. There's no guarantees. We're operating under the premise that we wish to preserve. Pfab: What percentage of the time when you look backwards at the advice the bond counsel gives you were you...would hindsight were you pleased with the advice that you've got? Atkins: I've been here 15 years. 100%. Pfab: Okay. Champion: I think he'd probably get a new bond counsel if he weren't pleased. Pfab: Well, no, no. I mean I said what percentage. Atkins: No, he's been on mark every time. Pfab: Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #16 Page #97 Kanner: My concern is I think it's political, philosophical philosophy about 10 years versus 20 years. I think 10 years increases the burden more the people now as opposed to spreading it out and paying slightly higher. And I'm going to have to vote "no" because I don't have figures on approximately what the difference is in the payments. I don't think it's that difficult and I think council does have an obligation to get those figures and ask staffto do that. Council generally from the work session does not want to ask staff to get those figures. I don't think it's ' exceedingly difficult. I think we should have those figures before we vote to send these out for 10-year bond. Pfab: Steven, could I suggest the possibility that ifa person wanted to answer your question they could come up with 10 different ways to where you want. And you wouldn't know any difference and neither would anybody else. It's just that complicated. And it's not that it's wrong, but you have so many variables to play with. Kanner: I don't think it's complicated. Pfab: No, no. Kanner: It's the philosophy that the council and the city manager are going along with and I have a different philosophy and question this. I don't think it's that difficult, Irvin. I think we can get that information. I think there's a good point being made by the city manager, but I would like to see those figures. I think it's important to get a best estimate to get what the savings would be and using the current set of statistics what the cost for city taxpayers would be for 10 years versus 20 years. Pfab: If you could look backwards it would be easy. But, as you go out into the market there are so many variables. And it's not that its rocket science it's just that what is Greenspee...Greenspan - whatever his name is- what's he going to say tomorrow and the next day. It's just...it just changes your life and you just take it. It's the real market. Lehman: Okay. O'Donnell: Let's vote on this. Lehman: Roll call. Motion canies (6/1). Kanner voting the negative. Do you want to take time? O'Donnell: I think we should Champion: We've got a lot to do yet. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #16 Page #98 Lehman: A little expressed interest in taking about a five minute break. That would be about eight minutes after. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #21 Page #99 ITEM NO. 21. CONSIDER RESOLUTION DIRECTING THE ADVERTISEMENT FOR SALE OF $29,100,000 GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS. Lehman: Item number 21 Consider resolution directing the advertisement for sale of $29,100,000 general obligation bonds. O'Donnell: Moved Lehman: Moved by O'Donnell. Wilbum: Second. Lehman: Seconded by Wilbum. This includes the $18,400,000 for the library expansion which was approved by almost 70% of the voters. Discussion? Roll call. Motion carries. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #22 Page #100 ITEM NO. 22. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINANCIAL PLAN FOR THE CITY OF IOWA CITY~ IOWA FOR FISCAL YEARS 2003 THROUGH 2005 AND THE MULTI-YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM THROUGH FISCAL YEAR 2006. Lehman: Item number 22. Consider a resolution approving the financial plan for the city of Iowa City, Iowa for fiscal years 2003 through 2005 and the multi-year capital improvements program through fiscal year 2006. Champion: Move the resolution Lehman: Moved by Champion. O'Donnell: Second. Lehman: Seconded by O'Donnell. Discussion. Champion: I would just like to point out that we can at any time change this plan. Isn't that true. Atkins: Oh, sure. Champion: And we also have the ability to turn down projects if they come in unsatisfactorily. Atkins: Any capital project there's any number...you have to have a public heating of lands and specs. You have to have a public heating. You have to read and formally receive bids. As far as legislative, Connie, you're probably talking three or four times you have a crack at a project. Yeah. We do begin to spend money on these projects. Champion: Right. Atkins: And staff begins to time, Eleanor's office has to begin gearing up for acquisition and things such as that. So there is some commitment. And we also inform you of those along the way. O'Donnell: It's very fortunate because I will support this, but down the road there's going to be a couple of items here that I won't be able to support and I think we all have concerns about it, but we do have that option. Vanderhoefi I'll second that. One place that I did look at the capital expenditures was the capital outlay that we budget every year at $500,000 and this is for our rolling stock heavy equipment and those kinds of things that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #22 Page #101 are items that we expect them to last more than five years. Some of them considerably longer than that. And this is a discretionary kind of thing and it is a flexibility kind of thing that we have when certain things come up that we need to purchase and I would leave the $500,000 in and would look to the expenditures as they come in in this flexibility that the city manager has and have them bring them to us. We can probably pull that down to maybe $400,000 a year rather than the $500,000, but I'll leave it in the budget this way and then I'll reiterate that I've spoken before on several of the things that are in the capital project that I don't agree with and I will vote "no" on those items as they come forward. Pfab: Emie, I have some reservations, but I'll make those at the proper time and place. Lehman: Well, I think that if any of us have...well I guess that I feel a little confused. I thought that the last. The budget that we passed did that include the capital budgets for all three? Atkins: What you passed was the... Lehman: Operating budget. Atkins: Operating budget. You're required by law to do that. The debt you're selling now is occun'ing in this fiscal year and therefore monies will be encumbered in this fiscal year. Remember that the adoption of the financial plan and capital plan are discretionary. We as a city choose to adopt a multi-year operating budget. We should clearly adopt a multi-year capital plan because it affects borrowing, credit ratings, capital project planning, you know all of things that go with that. That's the importance of this document. I think some of the developers you heard them tonight. When we have these plans in place they know that there is something there. For example I know a project that you have to do a lot of work on is the Camp Cardinal that's a two million dollar commitment. You're saying we'll leave it in the plan and we'll discuss it. You'll ultimately get a developer memorandum of some sort, but you're certainly going to go to work on it and express your opinions on that and that will have a beating on whether we would borrow that money in '05 or not. Lehman: Well, I personally think that this is a mistake to approve a plan that is as aggressive as this is. And having said that I'm going to vote for it. But, one of the things that bothers me is that I do think, as you said Steve, that we have developers, we have folks in the community that although, perhaps, it's not as firm as our comprehensive plan it does give some sort of a road map to the folks in the community as to what This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #22 Page #102 they might expect and I really hope that some of those folks are disappointed because I think we have projects in here that need to come out. Atkins: Yeah. And we may show a project in here for example to be funded by G.O. and you may send us back to tell a developer you know we're willing to share this level of cost. Those are things that are decided some time in the future. For planning purposes we need to know that there's at least an interest on your part. Lehman: Well, I just would encourage my fellow council people to look at these things pretty heavy and if we come to a conclusion that one of these things isn't going to make it, the sooner we tell the folks that it isn't going to make it the better offthey are. Pfab: I believe that didn't we give the city manager instructions to do this and he did it and I think at that point we supported it until the time comes up. Vanderhoefi Well, but he also said that we needed to cut about 7 million. Pfab: Right. Vanderhoefi You know. I can go down the list for '03 and tell you the things that I'm not going to support when they come forward and they are any surprises to you folks that I felt like this wasn't the time to move forward with a halfa million dollar project with the north market place, street scape and I'm not in favor of moving forward on the water works park at this time. It can wait. It's not essential. Public art to me is not essential. And I think that we just have to take those cuts. I'm sorry, but I'll be voting no on those kinds of things as they come forward because I truly believe that we need to work towards our 25%. Wilburn: I can add a little perspective maybe. We put so much time and staff even more into the nuts and bolts of this multi-year planning which is good thing to do, but as you all pointed out you may change your mind as these things come up. But, also there may be new people sitting up here when you do multi-year plan like this. So, don't beat yourself up too hard. Champion: Oh, definitely O'Donnell: And there may be projects that we haven't even heard of that we're going do. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #22 Page #103 Atkins: Well, I think that the only thing that I'd use as a rule of thumb on a capital project, inevitable it spills over to one council. Year to approve, year to plan, year to build. That means potential for new faces dealing with it in some phase in its 3-year life is very easy. Pfab: I believe the circumstances have been known to change too. Atkins: Yes, they have. Kanner: I think Dee I'd actually disagree. Economic development is essential and I look at art in our city as economic development and community development is essential as the near north side. That's a model that we want to try to replicate and I see the road map is actually a road map in that with the big ticket items continue to be the road that we think will take us to economic development. And I would disagree with that. It's a road map that I'm going to have to vote against. And I think that we need to realign ourselves. Lebanan: Well, we're going to have that chance when they come up. Let's do a roll call. Motion carries (6/1). Kanner voting the negative. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #24 Page #104 ITEM NO. 24. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING EXECUTION OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND PROJECT GREEN, INC. Lehman: Item number 24. Consider a resolution authorizing exudation of an administrative services agreement between the city of Iowa City and Project Green. Dilkes: I'd ask you to defer this indefinitely. We still don't have the signed agreement and we'll bring it back when we do. Lehman: Do we have a motion to defer? O'Donnell: Move to defer indefinitely Pfab: Second. Lehman: Moved by O'Donnell. Seconded by Pfab. All in favor (all ayes). All opposed. Motion carries. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #28 Page #105 ITEM NO. 28. CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION Lehman: City Council information. Pfab: Let me start. Lehman: Go right ahead. Pfab: Okay. I'm going to take this time talk about a quit smoking item which is going to be picked up by the camera and I'm going to read it. It's says "Think spring. Think light. Quit smoking. There's help. Johnson County freedom from smoking program. A free 7-week quit smoking progran~ for pregnant women, women of child bearing age and their spouses. Even have win weekly incentives, gift certificates, promotion items and more. The dates are Tuesday night April 9-May 21st. Time is 6:30 to 8:00p.m. The first session will end at 8:30. Location: Johnson County Department of Public Health, 1105 Gilbert Court, Iowa City. Sign up now. Call Erika at 319-356-6040 extension 1-4. Lehman: Thank you. Connie? Champion: Nothing. Mike? O'Donnell: Just one quick thing. I read in the paper this morning that some city Council in Tennessee receiving counseling and just thought...and I'll quit right there. Lehman: Dee? Vanderhoefi Nothing tonight. Lehman: Ross? Wilburn: I was asked to point out that the school district, United Action for Youth, MECCA and the Iowa City Public Library are havin~h community dialog about substance use and abuse on April 9 at 7:00 p.m., meeting room A, Iowa City Public Library. Interested community members, teenagers, and parents of teenagers are encouraged to come talk about substance use among our youth. Lehman: Steven? Karmer: Next Tuesday April 9th from about 6:00 to 8:30 I'm going up to Cedar Rapids for planning and zoning commission board of adjustment training and room in the car if anyone (city car) wants to come along. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #28 Page #106 It should be interesting. And I'm having office hours. I'd my first office hours last month. I'll try to do that on a monthly basis. This Saturday April 6th from 10:00 to 12:00 noon here at the Civic Center in the lobby conference room. So, come on down if you want to talk, have any concerns or comments, or just want to gibbets a little and have a bagel and some orange juice. I also want to mention that April 19 -22 there are a number of people going to Washington D.C. for peace demonstrations and also for Colombia solidarity and close the schools of America and to lobby our local officials. So, give me a call if you're interested in going and I'll hook you up with the right people. Wanted to make mention of the fact that the garden...city garden plots sign up was two days ago or yesterday actually. Weatherby garden plot. I got mine for the first time and it's a great deal for $14 for a city plot. I'm looking forward to some vegetables to bring in here to share with my fellow council members. And finally congrats to my fellow Clevelander Halle Barry for wining the Academy Award for best actress. And I said that I would mention to Meg congrats to your endurance for watching the whole academy awards on Sunday night. And anyone else who endured the whole four hours and 21 minutes. Equivalent to ours. Lehman: That's better than a council meeting. Kanner: About the same. O'Dormell: Much more to see. Lehman: Two things. First of all my office hours are my store six days a week. If you can't get me six days a week, call me at home on Sunday. It's been that way for nine years and it isn't going to change. Saturday is the Booster pancake day at West High School for the Iowa City public schools. Get out and support the schools. Great cause. Steve? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002. #29c Page #107 ITEM NO. 29C. REPORT ON ITEMS FROM CITY STAFF. CITY MANAGER Atkins: Saturday the 20th mark your calendars. Our new landfill recycling center open house thing. So please get that on your calendars. Oh yes. Thank you. Give me a clue. On Thursday morning at 10:00 I'm going to be attending a press conference of sorts at the Eastern Iowa Cedar Rapids airport. And it's announcing the cooperative relationship between the city of Iowa City and the city of Cedar Rapids specifically through ICAD and Priority One which is their development, economic development agency on the new technology corridor. It is a policy whereby ICAD and Priority One will be sharing information on development opportunities. Whereby industries, businesses that come to the area while will certainly still compete, we will also be sharing information and if they can't find something here in Iowa City that suits their interests, we will share that information with Cedar Rapids and vice versa. I am kind of looking forward to it. They have a much larger budget and greater opportunities with respect their industrial base to do some of the things that we can't do. This sharing information thing is going to have some long term benefits for us. Lehman: Great idea. Eleanor? Marian? Do we have a motion to adjourn? Vanderhoef: Moved. Lehman: Second? Wilbum: Second. Lehman: All in favor (all ayes). We are adjourned. Thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City council meeting of April 2, 2002.