HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-11-29 TranscriptionNovember 29, 2010 City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present:
Staff Present:
Others Present:
Bailey, Champion, Dickens, Hayek, Mims, Wright, Wilburn (arrived at
5:40 P.M.)
Dilkes, Karr, Helling, Fosse, Jordan, Davidson, Boelk, Tallman
Higgins, UISG; Senator Bolkcom; Senator Dvorsky; Representative
Masher; Representative Jacoby
Meeting With Area Legislators:
Hayek/ Well, let's get this show on the road. Welcome back to reality...after a nice long
weekend. Um... first off, obviously, is the meeting with our esteemed local, uh,
legislators. Maybe we should, just for the benefit of those in the...in the crowd, just walk
around the table here and introduce ourselves, um...we can start with me. I'm Matt
Hayek.
Wright/ Mike Wright.
Mims/ Susan Mims.
Dickens/ Terry Dickens.
Jacoby/ Dave Jacoby.
Masher/ Mary Masher.
Bolkcom/ Joe Bolkcom.
Dvorsky/ Bob Dvorsky, State Senator from Coralville.
Higgins/ Um, Elliott Higgins, University of Iowa Student Goverrunent.
Bailey/ Regenia Bailey.
Champion/ Connie Champion.
Hayek/ Welcome! Thanks for taking time out of your schedules, uh, to be with us. Um, and I
think you guys have all met Tom Markus, our new City Manager, who doesn't actually
start until Wednesday, but as you can see (several talking) he can't wait! (laughter) So,
uh...look forward to having him get to know all of you, uh, better in the months to come.
Um...I don't think there's really any set format, uh, to this. So we're looking forward to
just a...a good conversation here with you a little bit tonight. Um, as you...and I
encourage the rest of the Council to chime in at any time. You know...this is my third
time I think doing this, and...and one thing we did differently this year was instead of
kind of a traditional laundry list (mumbled) go with more of a thematic approach.
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Um...and uh...be happy to talk to you about anything...you guys want to focus on.
Otherwise we could just kind of go through those broad themes and spark some
discussion. Also get a sense from you about the `new world order' and what we can look
forward to, uh, in Des Moines. So...um...we...why don't we take these up in the order
in which they appear, but they are not, uh, in order of importance or significance.
They're alphabetical! So just keep that in mind, um...this has been, uh, slightly
mitigated by the...by the outcome of the over-21 campaign, but uh, we...we continue to
see a need for greater, um, home rule essentially on alcohol issues, and we've had, um,
we've experienced disappointment in the past in terms of, uh, local attempts to legislate,
uh, on, uh, the regulatory side of...of liquor licenses, uh, we got reversed on...on
something we tried a year and a half ago. I know that Dubuque ran into a similar
problem, uh, and experienced a similar outcome, and I don't know what other
communities do, uh, and...or what they have experienced in this regard, but it's
something we've talked about before.
Champion/ Many times!
Hayek/ Yeah. You know, and...and with you folks, I think, um...
Champion/ But I do want to thank your support for the 21-ordinance. It was really nice to
have...important people in the community support that. Appreciate it.
Bolkcom/ Well I think it was a, I mean, the City Council's leadership, frankly, that made it
possible, really. The work that you all did and standing up for the community and safety
of students and the health of students, I think was really...the driver, frankly.
Mims/ (several talking) University involved as well. I think, you know...
Karr/ Excuse me. We're not picking you...we are unable to hear.
Hayek/ Make sure you pick these, uh, guys up when you talk. Sorry about that! (laughter)
Wright/ It was really a team effort! Everybody contributed to the success of that. It was,
uh...gratifying let's say!
Masher/ Matt, can you be specific when you talked about, um, home rule on the alcohol issues.
Can you describe or explain...I don't know that we ever had proposed legislation. I don't
know if Joe had offered something last year in the Senate, but...maybe if we can get into
specifics in terms of what you anticipate, or what you would like to see us do.
Hayek/ Uh-huh. Were you going to weigh in? (several talking) ...pick up your mic!
Bolkcom/ Sorry! I think, I mean, I think the last...this has been maybe four years ago...the
increase in PAULA fines, uh (noise on mic) the Council was interested in. We
introduced legislation in both House and Senate and those became law. I don't know,
you know, in terms of doing follow-up at this point, what we'd say the effectiveness of
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increasing fines has been in Iowa City. I'm...it seems like, uh, 21 has gone really a long
way, uh, to addressing some of the concerns. So I mean, looking forward I don't know if
it's...it's things like drink special, I mean, what the next kind of horizon of topics
are...for either local ordinance or...or state effort. Uh, and I guess that gets to
Representative Masher's question about specifically do people have ideas about what the
next set of ideas for, that you might be considering or is the Council in kind of a let's see
how this plays...let's give this more time to kind of see how things go and the new lay of
the land.
Champion/ I think part of the problem with Iowa law...at least seems to me...is that Dram
insurance is based on retail sales and not wholesale, and I think that really creates...cheap
alcohol. I'm all for it when I'm buying it (laughter) but I do think...my problem with the
cheap alcohol is the number of young people who are really over-served downtown, not
the fact they're drinking. They're so over-served they can't even walk when they leave
those bars.
Dickens/ And I think it was the habitual bars that were always...had the levels over the 1.0 that
we had established, that...you know, even if they were over it when we sent it to the
State it was reversed. So, we hadn't...we had nothing, no teeth in...in...letting the
license go through, even if they continually are...are allowing it to happen within their
establishments.
Mims/ Well, it seems like one of the issues has been that there's no definition of good moral
character. Um, in the state law, and that's...I mean, that was where I think Iowa City
started with that PAULA ordinance was trying to use that as saying, you know, if they
can't control that then they're not of good moral character and obviously that didn't go
anywhere with the, uh, with ABD. So to me that's one issue, is you know, what...what is
a definition of good moral character in terms of being able to hold a liquor license, and
then I would piggyback on Connie's comment. We've heard this from former bar
owners, uh, really making the comment about the way the Dram shop insurance is
calculated and should be done on volume not on dollar sales. Um, because...what that
does in a city like Iowa City is it encourages the bar owners to have the high cover
charges and use drink specials so their dollar sales of alcohol is lower so their insurance
is lower. That's the way I understand it at least, and so, um... some changes in those I
think would...could be helpful down the road.
Hayek/ I mean, and I think that the statute that Council Member Mims referred to, I mean, it's
pretty antiquated. Even the term good moral character I think is a...is a very antiquated
term. But more importantly, um, it's relatively vague and I think it makes it
harder...difficult for cities to, um...determine on what grounds they could deny, uh,
renewals. Um, and we found that out in...in the 2009 PAULA, uh, legislation that we
passed, which was ultimately struck down by an administrative law judge. Um, so, and
you know, I think if we asked, uh, our Legal Department to put together the four or five
specifics, we could...we could do so without much effort. But what you're seeing is a
smattering of...of the concerns we've had in this area.
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Wilburn/ And even just stepping back from...you know, the vagueness of the legislation,
that...even just the ...the intent, if we...if cities are to take seriously the responsibility for
monitoring, managing, um, the liquor permits, the licenses, then we either do it or we
don't, and so I guess just clarifying what the message is. Is it our responsibility? And if
so, um, either...give the autonomy to enforce it, or uh, probably just to be fair and
consistent across the state, uh, give us some specific guidelines, whether it's a definition,
clarifying whatever that might be, I think would be helpful, which you know, in... in a
certain sense, some of the things that we've tried is to define it...um, as it made sense for
our community, and if... if we can't do that, then please define it for... for the intention of
the state and state law.
Masher/ Matt, you just said that your Legal staff could probably come up with those definitions.
I would ask that you do that and get it to us, so that we can...
Hayek/ Yeah.
Masher/ ...draft something or at least get things moving, um, in terms of the discussion about it.
Hayek/ We would be happy to do that, and also, um, I believe that the new ABD Administrator
is coming to town for a meeting later this...later in December, uh, with the Partnership
For Alcohol Safety, and I think there's an opportunity there to talk...for some interface,
um, on...on this, um...so we will take advantage of that, and also get you, uh, something
more specific.
Jacoby/ What's our student representative's take on this? I don't mean to put you on the spot!
Higgins/ No, that's fine, um...
Jacoby/ That, and maybe just quickly too your thoughts on determining an age of maturity,
because I think that's where we're lacking at the state level is this is one issue, it's local.
It was decided, but I also think we need to step out a little bit and actually determine that
age of maturity. Now, is it 18? 19? 20? 21? You know, I don't know. I prefer my
daughters to move out after high school graduation (laughter). That's a different issue of
maturity there, but what's your take on the discussion?
Higgins/ Well, I appreciate you asking for my perspective, um, I think that...well, for me, I think
that this should be pushed to the back burner in light of 21 being passed. I think there
should be more time for it to develop. I mean, I respect they've had...Iowa City's had
problems with this for a very long time. So I understand, um, why they consider it a
priority, but um, when it comes to an age of maturity...you know, I personally think if
you can go to war for your country, you should be allowed to drink, but that's a whole
other...whole other argument. Um, but I...I do understand why they, you know,
they...these things need to be further defined in state law, because I mean, as...as they
said, they've, you know, had to fight with us for a very long time, so...
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Jacoby/ One last put you on the spot question. If you were involved in that age of maturity
discussion, what would the age be?
Higgins/ Um, I'd say 19 because you know on...you can be 18 years old and still be in high
school, and I think that's kind of where the...the line should be drawn for me. Um...but
I mean, that's a tough call. And that's federal law, not state law so...
Jacoby/ Thank you.
Higgins/ Thank you!
Hayek/ Okay, anything else on this section?
Dvorsky/ Just to the process there, what might be helpful is if you did get together with Mr.
Larson when he comes in to Iowa City, because just for example, we got the legislation
changed so we could allow to...to have, uh, what's their name, Cedar Ridge? Winery, so
they could actually make their product there and sell it there. That took about four years
to get that done, with the help of the Iowa City Area Chamber and the Cedar Rapids Area
Chamber and all that, but ultimately what happened in the end was the Commissioners
were the one that came up...forward with the recommendation and that moved it along a
lot. So if you can get the Commission to sort of look at this and maybe can help with
things: Steve is very reasonable, very professional person, so I think it would be helpful
to...to meet with him, and you do have somebody from Iowa City's who's actually on the
Commission, Mr. Clayton.
Hayek/ Yep!
Dvorsky/ So, that...that, uh, I think it's a good opportunity.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Dvorsky/ Uh, and the other thing is, um, I don't know how to put this delicately.
Champion/ You don't have to!
Dvorsky/ Well, Rick's here and everything so I don't know, but...but um...I think you'll have a,
at least in the House, you'll have a group of people who want to be tough on alcohol and
that kind of thing, because that's sort of in their political philosophy. So it's probably a
little different group there than...been in the past, so something like this might actually
go now. It might not have in the past.
Hayek/ And you know we've certainly recognized that the challenges faced by a region
institution community are different, uh, from frankly most other communities throughout
the state. Um...and uh (mumbled) political calculus with that, as well, but I think...I
think this meeting, uh, with the new administrator will be...really helpful. So...
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Bolkcom/ I...I think on the...this notion of good moral character, I mean, (noise on mic) sorry
`bout that! To the degree to which you could give some characteristics of what that
would look like, what ideas people have, and that would be helpful, I mean, if that's an
arcane legal notion at this point, what's a more modern one, and if not, what kinds
of...what kinds of things have been...have we seen in Iowa City that might inform that
from the perspective of a...of an alcohol license.
Hayek/ Sure, and I haven't looked at that recently, but as I recall, uh, it's specific with respect to
some issues like financial condition, things like that, but...but not with respect to the
whole slew of others that quite frankly bear...have more bearing on...on the impact of
the establishment. So, we'll look at that and get you something specific.
Champion/ I just want to bring up one more alcohol issue, and then I promise I'll be done.
Um...now, Nebraska, they've been quoted a lot about how Lincoln bars are cooperating
with the city. Well, one of the reasons they've cooperated is that if there's a minor in
their bar they're also fined. So that's one reason most those bars have gone 21. It wasn't
worth the hassle. And in Iowa City, doesn't make any difference how many PAULAs
you have, the bar owner is not fined, just the child is. Well, they're not really children, I
guess. The young adult, and the other thing that's about now since our ordinance is after
10:00, the fine is pretty hefty for the young person that's in that bar, but there's still no
fine for the bar owner. So they don't even announce that people should leave. It's not up
to them. They don't really care if they're in there. So I think that's kind of unfair to the
young people that..that are in those bars. I don't know if we can do anything about that,
but like you say, just see how this whole thing just works out after (mumbled) law for a
while.
Wright/ ...dovetails into the, I'm sorry. Dovetails into the whole good moral character
definitions that...what we bumped into with the PAULA ratio. Many of these issues are
just pretty closely related.
Masher/ Are the police still down there and, um, basically charging people, I mean...
Champion/ Oh sure!
Masher/ ...to the same, obviously not the same extent.
Champion/ Oh no, because the fine is (both talking) the fine is so large that (both talking)
Masher/ ...isn't it like $700 and...(several talking)
Champion/ ...it's a lot of money, so you're not seeing a lot of that, um...but still, I think...
Masher/ Don't you think word-of--mouth is all that's needed there? (laughter)
Champion/ I mean, it's a pretty hefty fine, and I don't think you're...you're not going to see very
many kids in those bars after 10:00. But I still think it's a problem.
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Higgins/ Would that be a possibility, to...to have a fine for the bars, not just for the patron, the
underage patrons? Cause I mean I think that would go a long ways to crackdown on
those...those kids being in the bars in the first place.
Hayek/ Well, but, and see you get into the crux of...of what we ran into, which was that, um,
even though we established under the...the 2009 PAULA policy that, um, you know,
under our approach, if... if... a threshold was reached in terms of PAULAs within that
establishment over a certain period of time, um, we tried to hold the bar accountable for
that, uh, and use that as a bright-line standard that said, look, you know, you have to
figure out how to protect against underage consumption or possession in your
establishment. We're not going to tell you how to do it. We're just going to tell you you
have to. Keep it below a certain threshold. That was tossed out, uh, and part of the
reason was that we couldn't show that the bar or the bar employees had knowledge or
intent with respect to that individual charged with that person under 21, and that's part of
our problem. We can't...we can't extend it from the individual who's in possession to
the owner. (mumbled) so, it's part of the issue, so...
Wilburn/ I was just going to add that, uh, in my opinion, the antiquated part is just having good
moral character in there. Why not just list the problem behaviors and indicators, which
was what our attempt was, and that way, um, well, even the conversation historically in
the community, originally there was a lot of battling back and forth about, uh...good
moral character and who are we to do that, but once we started making attempts at
regulating where the problems were, the conversation shifted. It started to `what's an
appropriate PAULA rate' and...and those types of things. So...I mean (mumbled) talk
about what our...our recommendation might be, but my (mumbled) just get rid of the
good moral character and talk about the...the behaviors that are...that resources are
being, uh, allocated towards having to address because of problem behaviors.
Masher/ The only other thing I would say is to build coalition with Ames and Cedar Falls and
other, Grinnell, Dubuque, whatever in terms of other communities that are also dealing
with this, because I'm sure they have some of the same concerns that you do, and have
raised, and uh, the better the coalition, the more likely it will get passed.
Champion/ That's a good point!
Hayek/ Okay. Well, let's move on to economic development, and...as you can see, these, in this
category, were essentially repeating what has been on the list for a while, and you know,
maybe the better way to go at this is to, you know, ask you where you think things stand,
um, as it relates to TIF or uh, hotel/motel, some of the things that are peren...perennially
on...on the list, but in light of the new...you know, the recent election.
Bolkcom/ I don't...I don't see a whole lot happening with TIF. I mean, I think we have a
number of members, I mean, the election changed quite a lot of things. There's a whole
bunch of people that are not coming back that had developed some interest...there's
several members in our caucus that had some interest in doing some things to TIF, to
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tighten it up, maybe make it shorter. Not 20 years; 10 years...and a few other just kind of
small tweaks, um...but I don't...I'm not sure much is going to happen. I know they,
although I have heard Governor Bran... Governor Elect Branstad talk about, um, TIF and,
I mean (mumbled) some of the ag interests have issues with it. I don't know if he's
speaking on their behalf when he talks about it. Nothing specifically, um, and I saw
some figures recently that about 18% of commercial property taxpayers currently in Iowa
benefit from TIF. I think the pressure's going to be on, uh, what are we going to do on
commercial property taxes, as it relates to (mumbled), how TIF might play or not play,
but I don't really see with all the new members, um, and the... coming in... in next year,
that there's going to be any real attempt to deal with any kind of TIF reform. It is, uh,
scheduled, I don't know what the date is, I mean, we passed a fairly significant tax credit
review, uh, process in TIF is to be reviewed in one of the, I don't know if it was 2013 or
2012, but it's on a list with some 30 other credits to be reviewed and kind of in a
more...in-depth kind of way. Uh, but my guess is not much going to happen on TIF.
(female)/ (unable to hear)
Bolkcom/ Yeah. Representative Masher notes that we, so the...the state's backfill on local
school, uh, aid is about somewhere 40 to 45 million dollars. There are members that are
concerned about that. That's kind of a...one of those rare unfunded mandates from local
governments to the state, um...(laughter) where a decision made by local governments
actually cost the state money, and uh, you know, there's...there's no end in sight really to
that. That...it's...it remains the single biggest economic development program in the
state. I think there's about somewhere around, more than $300 million a year basically
off...off the tax rolls, paying for these projects, um, paying for whatever that is, and a lot
of it's tax abatement, and a lot of it's...and so, uh, and we don't have a very good data set
on how all the money's being used. So there's a bunch of issues, I think, um, but I think,
you know, the forces of the Chamber and...and the cities are going to probably be
successful in not having any changes to the program. Even though I think there are
some... some ways to continue to have it be strong, but tighten it up a little bit.
Hayek/ Commercial property taxes, where do you think, uh...where do you think that's going to
go?
Bolkcom/ Well, again, I mean...in the context of the campaigns, both the Governor, the
Governor Elect has talked about, uh, you know, reducing commercial property taxes. I
think there's probably a number of members of the new Republican caucus in the House
who are interested in that. Most of the proposals over the last couple of years have
simply had some sort of rollback to commercial rates without any corresponding back-
filling of state revenue to local governments, both cities and counties. Um, and...I guess
we'd say you can throw schools in there too, um, so I think there's a lot of concern about,
uh, what proposals might come forward. This has been a perennial issue. I think
TIF...where TIF plays here, when you've got you know, almost a fifth of property
tax...commercial property tax payers paying no property taxes or getting property tax
rebates, in communities, and you have, you know, 80% paying property...you've got
some inequity built into the TIF, uh, situation where some commercial... why would we
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want to...for almost 20% of commercial property tax owners, uh, you know, roll...doing
some sort of commercial rollback has no affect on them. Um, but I think the challenge
will be whether or not the House will pass some sort of commercial reduction that would
be not funded by the state, and the cities would basically be scrambling over the next...be
something I would guess would be phased in over a few years. Cities would be
scrambling and counties would be scrambling to backfill or find the resources that would
essentially go away.
Jacoby/ I think it's true though that the commercial property tax payers are...are paying too
much at 100%. I think we have to be careful not to mix our metaphors to TIF and
abatement, because commercial properties under TIF pay 100% of their...their tax
valuation. I mean, that...that's...it's, there's no tax forgiveness there, uh, talk to general
growth out in Coralville with the mall, and they...they pay 100%. Tax abatement is a
different issue. I think under TIF there was a willingness from all sides to look at the
school issue, of how the state backfills that 40 to 50, or upcoming 40 to 50 million and
what we could do in terms of the length of time on TIF, uh, agreements, but I think TIF is
a powerful tool for local entities, and I love TIF. I do not...(mumbled) time with some of
the tax abatement, uh, agreements that are written, but hey, what...that's up for the locals
to decide, but again, the...businesses under TIF pay 100% of their valuation, and that's
the key to it there. Commercials are paying 100%. I think it dipped way down to 99.7 in
2003, uh, no one in residential properties believes they're not paying enough, cause
they're paying a lot too! I think what you'll see as, uh, movement to try to reduce
commercial by 0 to 10% over the next 0 to 5 years. I think the biggest...this is a key;
we've talked about it multiple times; until we show some guts and decouple agriculture,
commercial, and residential, you won't see much new changes, because I think
residential, uh, residential homeowners could use a little relief. I think commercial
definitely in terms of fairness needs some relief, but I think there's one particular silo, if
you'll pardon that metaphor, that is not paying what they should in terms of property,
both uh, land and buildings, but until we decouple that, I don't think you'll see a
significant change in the property tax system. Hotel/motel tax. Uh, I think it's key for
everyone to know, and it's good that the media's here, that the hotel/motel tax is not
something that the state legislature would pass. It's not something that you would pass.
It's what we would allow to go to a vote of the people. So any increase in that cap on
hotel/motel tax isn't decided by you or us. That would be decided by a vote of the
people. So I think what'll happen, as always, with politics, it gets too darn political, and
it'll be viewed as an increase in taxes, or not, and that's what'll bottle it up, allowing that
vote to go to the local entities to decide if they should or shouldn't raise that tax.
Hayek/ Constant discussion over at the CVB, as you can imagine!
Jacoby/ Yeah.
Champion/ (several talking)
Bailey/ ...our max, and (several talking) legislation to take that max higher.
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Champion/ And...it's not on our list, but I...I think we've brought it up to you before, and I
suppose it's not ever going to happen, but um...the...the problem with rented
condominiums, which are paying residential property tax, and I think places like Iowa
City and Cedar Falls and Ames are really probably feeling the pinches. I think Des
Moines might be now too. Because people instead of building apartment buildings are
now building condominiums that are really meant to be rented and not...not sold.
Jacoby/ I think we're at...Connie, we're actually seeing that in some of our rural areas now too.
Champion/ Oh, are you too?
Jacoby/ (both talking) yes I think... some people were paying attention and not only in... in
college communities or larger cities, we're seeing it in some of the medium and smaller
cities too.
Champion/ Good! Might help...
Jacoby/ Good, or bad, yes!
Champion/ Well, no, but you know it's...it would help us if they're thinking about lowering
commercial tax base, that would certainly cover any lowering you did for us, I mean, we
have a...it's a big...I kept, and we figured it out one year how much it was, but it was a
lot of money, was well over a million dollars. I don't know...do you remember how
much it was? No. I don't either, but it was a lot. It was a lot of money.
Hayek/ Another thing they're doing is they figured out how to take, uh, certain existing
structures that wouldn't meet code in terms of, uh, a modification to condominiums, but
would under a cooperative approach. So you don't have to meet the code, but you get the
tax benefit. We're seeing that as well. Okay. Anything else under this?
Bailey/ I just have a broad economic development question, I mean, the approach to economic
development from this administration, at least what we heard of it in the campaign, is
somewhat different than the approach that we're used to. What do you anticipate insofar
as...as that, or any changes? Because we partnered quite a lot with companies and with
the Iowa City Area Development Group (mumbled) companies and... and partnering with
state programs as well as city programs, so...what...what do you see, any thoughts on
that?
Jacoby/ Well, obviously one of the biggest barriers to recruiting businesses or retaining them is
uncertainty. So I think we're all experiencing that right now. We're curious to see who
the new incoming director would be (mumbled) economic development, uh, on the
platforms during the elections there were a number of things stated they would do with,
without, throughout, uh, we just...I just don't know right now, but I hope that the new
administration comes in and looks at the number of things that obviously and truly work,
and that you don't throw those out because we've benefitted locally from a number of
those programs and it's helped businesses get started, you know, between uh, ICAD and
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what we do at the incubator with the University of Iowa. I think we've got it on paper
what we can do, and what we have done. So it'll be interesting to see and uh, maybe
someone else has a better timeline than I do, but I...I`d say by the end of January we
should kind of at least get a feel.
Hayek/ What about some of the other programs, you know, Vision Iowa, CAD, State Tax
Credits, are those on the list for review along with everything else?
Bolkcom/ Well, I think that, I mean, the campaign's over and we're on to the real world, and I
think where we're still going to have a Department of Economic Development and the
Governor's going to appoint somebody he likes to run it, and they have a whole bunch of
people that know how to do economic development, and we have, you know, all these
programs, some of which are successful, some of which we don't really do much
evaluation of. The Governor did say a week or two ago, uh, on the...on the Power Fund
for example that we need to make sure we're getting a return on investment, so I...I don't
know but he had some sort of set of criteria that he would hold to that. But I think it
bodes well for, uh, a review of 30-plus tax credits we're spending somewhere around
$500 million a year tax, or money on these programs. It's time, you know, we want...we
do want to make sure they're working and they're good public investments. So I hope
that he...I hope he carries that through, but...uh, it...in an earlier meeting, Bob...Senator
Dvorsky made this point. When...when our leader met with the Governor recently and
he's not, you know, he's been out of state government for 12 years, and he's not like up
on all the details of all the programs and everything that's going on, so he kind of got this
impression from this meeting was...he really needs to get up to speed, and his people
need to get up to speed on things like CAD and Vision Iowa and...and frankly I-Jobs,
um, and some of the other things... some of the other investments and decisions that the
legislature and the past two governors have made. So I think he's...I think he's going to
be much more pragmatic and practical about kind of looking at the lay of the land, and
he'll, I think the people that will come to work for him...Roederer's agood example.
He's quite knowledgeable about state government, and about these programs, and I think
there'll be people around him that will...will modify some of the campaign rhetoric
about, you know, eliminating the Department of Economic Development and the power
fund was no good and it didn't do any good and I-Jobs was a complete waste of money,
those kinds of statements in the campaign, I think, he'll see that....we've got some really
good programs up and running that have been good for the state. And hopefully will
continue.
Dickens/ What about the train service, as a group, are you going to...
Dvorsky/ That might be one that, uh, we need to really work on. That's...I think Vision Iowa
and CAD have a, hopefully, some (mumbled). I hope they'll, uh, continue. I think they
have a statewide base so every little town's there trying to come up with some things and
do things, so I think that...that's important. The economic development, all...all the
names I've heard for department heads really aren't, you know, crazy people to the right
or anything else, and the one I heard for economic development, Debbie Durham. Now if
you go back in your history, uh, Debbie ran for Governor when Doug Gross was running
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for Governor on the second Vilsack term, but...you probably don't remember that but she
runs the, I think it's called the Sioux Land Economic Development or is it the Chamber
too or is it just the economic...it's Chamber and Economic Development, Sioux City
area. So I don't think she's any kind of radical economic development person. I think
that's probably pretty standard, uh, economic development thing. So if she's the director,
I don't think you're going to see enormous changes there. Just shuffling some personnel
and that kind of thing, but...uh, the passenger rail thing, what I understand talking to the
(mumbled) Mr. Roederer is...is that the thing they're concerned most of all is in the
operating subsidy the state may have to put out. And I understand it's supposed to be like
$3 million. Rebecca...yeah, like $3 million maybe for the state, uh, and that might be a
problem. So I think we need to try and see what we can do about that. I think their
capital is one-time capital funding. I don't think that's, I mean, they might grouse about
that, but I don't think that's a problem. I think it's the operating that...there's some
concerns, and we'll have to see what we can do about that.
Hayek/ Yep.
Bolkcom/ I wonder how much the rest stops on I-80 and I-35 cost to operate as an operating
subsidy. I mean, the notion that...that the...you know, the automobile and the truck
transportation system somehow pays for itself is...I mean, we need to change the, kind of
the dynamic on the transportation thinking on this. I think that people see this as
something that has to be like a profit center for the state, or for Amtrak or, um, I don't
think we think of our interstate system as somehow making money for us.
Wright/ That's an excellent point.
Champion/ Yes, it is an excellent point. Speaking of interstates and traffic...this is really not
anything we've talked about, but I'm sure I read recently, and I...I may not be totally
right on this, that Iowa's first in the number of coal emissions for power. Is that true, and
is anything been...being talked about as far as envirorunentally...about how utilities are
produced in Iowa?
Bolkcom/ Um, this year was the hottest year on the globe, since we began measuring
temperatures, you know, and we've had all this extreme weather and you know, 2008 to
2010 is really the new...the new precipitation model for Iowa and...and you all know the
cost of, you know, preparing and making our community more flood resilient, um, so
then you shift over to this energy thing cause some people think that burning coal is
creating more extreme weather, and um, there's not much going on on that, Connie. Uh,
in terms of, uh, you know, reducing the amount of coal we're burning. Obviously, you
know, we're doing great on...on wind energy, about 20% of our total electricity is wind.
Um, there are a whole host of advocates that would like to see more solar power, more
distributed generation of solar power in Iowa. You know, we...the sun actually grows all
those...all those stalks of corn and soy beans, and there's people that believe we could do
a lot to generate electricity with...with solar. In fact, Tim Dwight was in Iowa City today
on this topic. He's former Hawkeye great, and now has a company called I-Power, and
it's (both talking)
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Jacoby/ Could have used him Saturday! (several talking and laughing)
Bolkcom/ Yeah, he's doing solar power, and talking about that. I mean, as an economic
development component, as a job creation effort, I mean, there's some opportunity, but
um, actually there's a report I think coming out in the next week here that's going to talk
about the...the health effects of all the coal that is burned in Iowa, is having some fairly
significant health impacts on the health of people that live in places where there are
plants, like here in Iowa City, we have a coal plant.
Champion/ Right, right on the river.
Masher/ Connie, I was just going to mention too that, you know, whatever the program is called.
We've got I-Jobs, Vision Iowa, CAD, Power Fund, you know, all of those are ones that
were different governors that initiated and started. Governor Branstad will probably
come up with his own, you know, fund, whatever that is, and some of these may be rolled
in together, and maybe a combination of things in terms of how it is rolled out. I know
that they had talked about, um, Rebuild Iowa becoming part of the Economic
Development and putting that into...into that. So, you know, there's...probably alot of
recombinations that you're going to see, because they weren't his idea.
Champion/ Right.
Masher/ I mean, it's as simple as that. And so I think you're going...we're going to have
different programs, although, you know, the beauty in I-Jobs was it was bonding, which
we've done very little of throughout the state, and it created a pot of money that we could
do things immediately to address flood mitigation, and the fact that we're probably going
to have more floods in Iowa than fewer, uh, means that we need that, and so I'm curious
to see whoever is in that role and in that job how they will view that, and if they're just
talking about taking it from the Reap account there's not enough money in that, and we
all know that. Um, we could probably rebuild Iowa City and Cedar Rapids, but it'll
take...it would take us 50 years. That doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of those
communities and the economic development that needs to occur there, and what needs to
be done immediately...to be able to remedy that. So L ..I look at, you know, some of
these things that, um, have been out there for quite some time because I think the
Governor had mentioned eliminating Vision Iowa, and I don't know if he said the same
with CAD or not, but um, yeah, same thing, yeah. But it...but point being, you know,
that would be one less tool again that cities would have, and that we'd be able to utilize
for economic development. What he would replace with that, I don't think anybody
really knows yet, and uh, that will yet to be seen (coughing, difficult to hear).
Dvorsky/ (several talking)...that's part of this whole I-Jobs debate, is the money that came out of
the Reap was used for...for vertical infrastructure, master builders, that...that a lot of it
would be for that and would take money from that and they didn't like that, and that's
one of the reasons I'm sure they...they supported the Governor Elect big time, and that's
why they probably don't like Vision Iowa cause it's not all vertical infrastructure.
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Bailey/ (mumbled)
Dvorsky/ Well, but I mean...I mean, they need...that's their big thing, and they always show
how many, uh, times that we've, uh, not withstood the definition to take the money
from...from Reap, to use for other things.
Bailey/ And a lot of the Vision Iowa money right now is I-Jobs money. You know that!
Because of so many Coralville projects.
Dvorsky/ Right, but I'm just saying, it's aflat-out special interest thing that has nothing to do
with most of the merits of I-Jobs money.
Bailey/ Yeah. Or, yeah, most of the (mumbled) yeah.
Hayek/ All right. Well, then the last section, um, is really sort of cutting and pasting, uh,
the...the Metro Coalition and the League of Cities legislative priorities, which are far
more in-depth, um, and instead of just restating them line for line, we incorporate t hem.
Um...and we can talk about any...any of them, as you like, and I...one thing we did
mention specific...specifically was our...our ongoing concern about police and fire
pension costs to cities, and I think this may be...(mumbled) few months old, but uh, we
are projecting our costs to double over about afive-year period of time. Um, from about
a million and a half to over three, and I don't know if those have been revised, if those
are still our current calculations. They were a few months ago.
Helling/ The latest things I've seen, predictions are getting close to 40%, and 17 is the minimum.
We have been at about 20. We're going up to about 25%, and over the next five years we
go up to about 40% and as I understand it, stay there for quite a while, uh, and then
maybe edge back down, maybe 10, 12 years out. I don't know if that's what you're
hearing, but that's...that'sthe latest thing we've received.
Jacoby/ Can I ask on the...slightly different note, what was the increase for insurance for the
City last year? Was it 11%, 19%? For your general insurance costs. Your health
insurance, I'm sorry.
Helling/ Last year it was a little below 10, and...in the 8% range I think. Uh, what we're hearing
this next year is it's going to be substantially more than that, but we won't have the
numbers until we...I don't think we're bidding any of our insurance this year. I think
we're on multi-year contracts but I...the predictions I hear it's going to be substantially
higher, maybe at 14, 15%, but I don't know for sure.
Masher/ Can you address...I know that we have remained static in terms of FTEs in both fire
department and police department, over a long period of time, and I know that with the
new fire station obviously we've added employees and obviously we're growing. You
know, we're growing as a city and...and we haven't kept pace maybe as we should have
in terms of the number of employees, uh, that we needed for fire and safety, in terms of
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fire and police, so can you talk a little bit about that and are the increases that you're
talking about due to the fact that we're increasing the workforce?
Helling/ Well, if you're talking...we are increasing the workforce, and uh, we were able to do
that largely because we had a major TIF roll off in the Plaza Towers last year, plus we
added...we were able to do 1% on the, uh, the electric and gas franchise fee, and
that...that's made it possible to staff the new fire station with nine firefighters, and also
add six police officers. Um, so that...that will increase the numbers, but for the MFPRSI,
it's the rates that are doubling, so you know, that...that means that our costs will more
than double if you consider the fact that we have new people, but we...we tend to look at
the rates because that's...that kind of tells the story. Raw numbers don't necessarily,
depending on...because it depends on...on your wages and so forth.
Hayek/ By and large we're not expanding, uh, our personnel ranks, um...we, as Dale mentioned,
we did expand police and fire by a total of 15, um, for the fire station and to address some
crime concerns locally, and he mentioned how we were able to do that, franchise fee was
a big...big part of that.
Champion/ Yeah, thank you!
Hayek/ Beyond that, and yeah, thanks to your leadership, beyond that however, we're really
not...uh, expanding, um, yet we continue to obviously expand our roads, our services.
We're taking on huge gobs of parkland and we're expecting our Parks and Rec
maintenance workers to do more with the same and...it's a real challenge! Well,
um...(mumbled) by the League and the Metro Coalition, so you've probably (mumbled)
do you want to talk about anything on their list, or do you want to talk about anything
that we haven't touched upon today?
[Jacoby left 6:15]
Bolkcom/ I'd like to get a, couple things on flood recovery kind of where we...where the city is
in terms of like looking at 2011, more needs that you might have, and also just like to
acknowledge the work of the Council and staff on your new ordinance...your new flood
plain ordinance. It's terrific work!
Hayek/ Yeah.
Bolkcom/ And hopefully it'll pay off in the long run, you know, a more protective ordinance and
a more resilient community.
Hayek/ Yeah, um, well I'll let Rick or Dale talk about, or Jeff, talk about where we are sort of in
a nutshell, but on the flood plain ordinance, it's interesting, and I say this based on my
experience with the Metro Coalition, I mean, we're unique in that, uh...uh, our...our
commercial areas are by and large high and dry. Our city government, by and large, high
and dry. Places like Council Bluffs have...have different landscapes, literally, and
so...that's why we, uh, have agreed with them on a more (mumbled) approach to flood
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plain ordinance management. Interesting how that plays out depending on where you are
and how high you are up above the river, but...Rick, do you want to...give them a quick,
uh...
Fosse/ Sure!
Hayek/ ...summary?
Fosse/ Right now we're winding down on our flood recovery projects. That is making ourselves
whole and operational again from the flood. We've got about three or four projects
remaining, at about $500,000, uh, we're ramping up into the flood mitigation projects
right now, and those are the really big ones, to prepare us for future floods. And, we're
currently under contract to design the waste water treatment facility consolidation. That
is well under way to working with the Iowa DNR on the regulatory aspects of that, and
we just have recently entered into contract with...with HMGB to design the Dubuque
Street and Park Road bridge projects, and we...we also recently secured some
Community Development Block Grant funds for three levee projects in Iowa City. So
when you look at our...our total funding package for all of our major mitigation projects,
we have about a...a, uh, 11 to 13 million dollar gap that we need to fill yet. Uh,
potentially, about $6 million of that...yeah, $6.5 could be filled with the I-Jobs money,
depending on how the...how that plays out ultimately. Uh, that still leaves us about 5 to
7 million dollars that...that we need to...to secure. (unable to hear person away from
mic) Yes, that's figuring $35 million, uh, in the one-cent local option sales tax, and...and
we're being conservative there. We hope that's the low end of the estimate. We hope
we're going to get something more than that. Figure in low for now. Anything else?
Masher/ I don't know, Rick, if this is one for you or not, but um...we're getting some emails
from people who feel they have not been adequately compensated in terms of housing
and they were in the flooded area, and so I don't know if those are questions that you deal
with or who deals with it at the City, but um, if that happens, who should we have them
contact?
Davidson/ Yeah, our flood recovery people, Doug Ongie and David Purdy, are the two that are
negotiating all those, and uh, I...I would hope to leave you with the impression that there
are also many people who are satisfied with, uh, the negotiations that we've had with
them, but there are certainly some that...we're right now at about, it's either 61 or 65
homes bought out in the flood hazard area, and we...we're hoping to be up around 85 or
90 and it's basically those folks are the ones we're still negotiating with, so...
Masher/ So the negotiations are not over.
Davidson/ Oh, oh no!
Masher/ And they may still have an opportunity to be compensated.
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Davidson/ Yeah, both the FEMA and CDBG programs, uh, are still open, uh, they do close, and
they close six months difference in when they close, but we're aware of those deadlines
and we'll keep negotiating right up until, uh, the...the moment that those programs, uh,
come off line. We also will be talking to the City Council, uh, when we discuss capital
projects this winter in the upcoming budget, of possibly putting aside some local funds
for additional buyouts when a home becomes available, someone who wasn't willing to
be bought out, uh, in the area that we've identified for buyouts, maybe they pass away or
move, uh, that we would like to be able to buy those, uh, and...and establish that area as
parkland. Uh, so we're hoping to, even once the federal programs, uh, come off line,
maybe still be able to do some additional buyouts.
Masher/ And...and I know that the City is the one who dealt with most of the, uh, buyouts in
terms of flood recovery and who got what, but there were reports, and this came from
some realtors in our area, that people were getting buyouts that shouldn't have. And how
do you determine that, and...what happens in those cases, and why would they think
that?
Davidson/ Um, you know, there are...there are, you know, some folks that I suppose an outsider
looking in might say were able to take advantage of some...some statutory things that,
uh, were able to get, you know, very good...very good compensation for their properties.
I certainly...you know, we've paid...our two flood recovery guys have paid a lot of
attention to making sure that we have absolutely followed every statutory requirement, so
nothing that's been compensated has been outside of the rules that were established for
the program, but...but clearly there have been some (both talking)
Masher/ So there were people in non-flooded areas that could have gotten money?
Davidson/ No! (several responding) Just the...just the flood, just the identified, no, no, nothing
like that! Just, just within the identified flood hazard area, depending on if you were in
the 100-year, what we used to refer to as the 100-year and 500-year flood plains, you
would be eligible for one program or the other.
Champion/ But wasn't there, I mean, where they might be getting that idea, if... if there was a
road, a curved road and...road's not always straight, especially in Iowa City, but if there
were five houses there that flooded, but there was a sixth one in between those five, we
don't want an isolated property there. Would we have bought that house too? Even
though it didn't flood.
Davidson/ Right, although (both talking)
Champion/ ...where they're getting that concern?
Davidson/ Although...although the instance, and I think we had two of them, one on each side of
the river that...that met what Connie is describing there. We were able to buy with
CDBG funds, homes that weren't eligible for FEMA funding, but they were still bought
through the two programs.
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Champion/ Because we didn't want an isolated house in an area that was going to flood,
um...and that seems logical to me that you're going to have parkland there that it's the
whole thing and not just somebody's property stuck (mumbled)
Davidson/ The other thing that I will also want to give credit to the state for was the, I guess I'll
use the term relaxation of the duplication of benefits rules, and a lot of credit to IFA and
IDED, depending on which program you're dealing with, for relaxing those. That made
it much, much easier for us to...to deal with folks.
Wilburn/ Jeff, is there any aspect of the Council priorities in terms of where to use which pot of
money, that might add some additional information that the representatives might want
to...
Davidson/ Um...no, I don't think so, Ross, I mean, you know lot of credit has...has been due to
Council for establishing the buyout as...the buyouts as the City's number one priority,
and then of course we really appreciated the state's priorities with the CDBG funds
coming in. We will have bought many more homes with CDBG funds than with the
FEMA funds, and uh, like I say, we're on 90 homes, and the other thing that we cannot
express enough gratitude to you for is the new homes replacement program. Uh, we're
going to end up probably even a little bit to the good in...in being able to replace that 20
to $25 million residential tax base that would have been lost if we had not been able to
build new homes to replace the bought out homes. So, very, very appreciative of the
state's initiative there.
Dilkes/ I just wanted to add with respect to negotiating the value, the buyouts, um, in accordance
with the rules, we have a hearing officer that if there's a dispute between the property
owner and...and the City, it goes to the hearing officer to make that decision. Um, so
there is a third party involved in that process.
Bolkcom/ ...this has been an amazing amount of work, I mean, just recovering from the flood
and all the workers, staff, and working with the residents to really plan for the future,
both the ordinance, but these buyouts are going to really save us a lot of heartache down
the road. As hard as it is for people to get knocked out of their homes, and find a new
place, I think the buyouts was really great strategy.
Masher/ Can you give us an update on where you are planning wise with both Dubuque Street
and Park Road bridge, and...I think the sewer system was the other one. Thank you.
(several talking)
Fosse/ Our goal for Dubuque Street and Park Road bridge is to have that project complete and
open at the same time Hancher is complete and open. So that would be prior to the
summer of...of 15. Uh, the unknown for us is getting through the NEPA process, which
is the environmental process in the...in the roadway design component of that. So, uh, as
I said, we just got under contract on that project, and we're diving in to that first thing.
And that'll be our first task. Uh, for, uh, the consolidating the two waste water plants,
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we've been under contract about seven months on that, and...and design is going well for
that. It is one of the first projects that's going through the IDNR under the new EPA
clean-water regs, and so they're...they're kind of feeling their way through the regulatory
process with us, so we're...we're trying to get all that put together, but our goal is to have
that done in 2014.
Wilburn/ Rick, aren't we also relocating mussels and things like that underneath the, uh...
Fosse/ Yes. We...as part of that NEPA process, for the Dubuque Street process, we took
advantage of the nice fall weather and we had the mussel survey done and we...we found
some endangered, uh, clams, some mussels, along that corridor, uh, you can only do that
when the water temperature's above 40 degrees, so that's why we did that before we even
had the engineer under contract. Because we didn't want to get into this winter and then
be caught waiting for spring to figure that out.
Masher/ And then the area over by Parkview, um, those apartments and all, none of that's going
to be mitigated by anything we're doing with Dubuque and, am I right?
Davidson/ Well, the one levee project that Rick referred to, uh, is for, uh, would provide
protection to the Idyllwild Condominium Association and then would also provide a
means for keeping the remainder of the Peninsula, you might recall that even though a lot
of the Peninsula was high and dry, we had to evacuate it because of the access being
closed. So that project will solve both of those, uh, those things, but there are
some...some issues with that project that will have to have full, you know, public input
process and then decision making by the City Council.
Bolkcom/ So with the raising of Dubuque Street, I assume the University has a bunch of active
projects on campus, raising the trail, and the Iowa Advanced Technology lab, there's a
new flood wall being built right now. I assume that the modeling down river, if we're
going to have less...if Dubuque Street's going to be higher and send more water down
river that those projects on campus are well informed about the new hydrology of the
Iowa River.
Fosse/ Yes. Yes they are. In fact, uh, under design right now, or under construction if you will
is a hydraulic model of the entire corridor, and we're putting the University projects in,
Iowa City projects, and Coralville projects so that we can look at the composite effect of
all of those, uh, the really great project from the perspective of...of flood levels is the
Park Road bridge project. That's the only one that's actually going to lower flood levels,
because right now it's a bottleneck, uh, so that...that will more than offset the negative
impacts of Dubuque Street. So as a composite as one project, that will be a positive for
us.
Hayek/ As you might recall, that bridge was plugging up the water and (several talking)
Champion/ And I...I think, did you tell us or did I read that it probably raised the water level in
Coralville by 7 inches. Is that possible?
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Fosse/ That's right. That's right. It was about 14 inches at the bridge, about 10 inches at
Idyllwild, and about 7 '/2 inches at the Coralville strip.
Wilburn/ Wasn't the model, the hydrology model, wasn't that a project that was funded through
JCCOG that we all decided, or did Iowa City pay for that and JCCOG looked at that.
Does that sound familiar, at the...
Fosse/ Well, we...we're funding that with funds from Iowa City, the University ,and Coralville,
but it's not through JCCOG. What we have is...is just a...a group of engineers that meet
about every other month right now, coordinate on our recovery projects.
Wilburn/ Thank you.
Fosse/ Uh-huh. (several talking) This is independent from that. But, they will likely be the
keeper of the model once it's done, because over the years it will need to be modified as
additional projects occur.
Masher/ And then, could you just give us an update on the Sand Road project? I...think that's a
great idea and (laughter) I don't know how (several talking)
Hayek/ It's moving. It seems like every meeting there's something new, there's something for
our agenda tomorrow night, but... (noises on mic) Jeff can handle that.
Davidson/ Mary, did you want an update just on the park project in general?
Masher/ Yeah.
Davidson/ Yeah, we've, uh, the final financial piece of that is, uh, we've...the Council's
identified $2 million in either state or federal or some combination of funding, and we
have made a request to the, uh, Recap program for that, and uh, Mike Moran and myself,
and hopefully the new City Manager will be going to Dubuque, or excuse me, Des
Moines next week to continue our negotiations for that project. We do appreciate, uh, I
guess Mr. Jacoby has left, but Bob and Dave were, uh, in Cedar Rapids the other day in
support of the project. Um, the project is nice in that it can be completed in phases.
We've completed the first phase already, the principle part of which was the trail around,
uh, the lake, which is already being heavily used, and then the remainder will be, you
know, the parking lots, the lodge, the beach, and all those, and we've broken them into
facets, but I can't emphasize enough the...the Recap money would be the final financial
piece of the puzzle that would allow us to complete phases 2, 3, uh, and 4, and get the
project done. Great, great regional impact project for (both talking)
Masher/ ...projection on it being done then?
Davidson/ Uh, we have bid phase 2 already, and are waiting for the word from the Recap
program before we actually have the contractor start incurring any costs, but phase 2
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November 29, 2010 City Council Work Session Page 21
would begin, uh, in the spring, and then, uh, we would follow with the third and fourth
phases over the next year, following that.
Hayek/ Anything else on your lists? Well, we, uh, are most appreciative of the work you do day
in and out for us. We, uh, you're available; you're frequent guests here. We see you all
the time. We know how to reach you, and uh, I know I speak for the entire Council and
for staff when I thank you, as well as Vicky and Dave for...for all of your hard work for
us. It has made a huge impact, because look at the flood, post-flood issues alone, um,
you can see what...what impact you're having in Iowa City and so we thank you for that.
Champion/ But I think you're all really good at representing the whole area, and I really
appreciate the (mumbled) that respect. You're all great! We're lucky!
Hayek/ Good! Well, all right. Why don't we take just a...three minute break and let these folks
leave, and come back and take up the rest of the meeting? (BREAK)
Agenda Items:
Hayek/ Okay, why don't we take up the rest of the meeting. Next bullet point is agenda items.
Anybody have anything?
ITEM 7. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 16 OF THE CITY
CODE, ENTITLED "PUBLIC WORKS," CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED,
"CITY UTILITIES," ARTICLE G, ENTITLED "STORM WATER
COLLECTION, DISCHARGE AND RUNOFF," AND TITLE 17,
ENTITLED, "BUILDING AND HOUSING" CHAPTER 8, ENTITLED,
"GRADING ORDINANCE," TO MAKE THE CIVIL PENALTY FOR
VIOLATING EROSION CONTROL PROVISIONS AN ENHANCED
CIVIL PENALTY AND TO AMEND THE DEFINITION OF
POLLUTANT. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Dilkes/ Julie Tallman is here for agenda item number 7, the increase in penalties for erosion
control, if you have a question about that.
Champion/ Oh!
Hayek/ (mumbled) Will...will this...will Julie be there tomorrow night? Okay, so we ought
to...does anybody have any questions?
Bailey/ (mumbled) straight forward to me.
Wright/ I think so too (several talking)
Bailey/ I think we all know how...why we're getting there.
Wright/ Yeah.
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Hayek/ Yeah, unless there's something in particular we need to be told about. Well, thanks for
(laughter and several talking) One of those nights!
Wright/ If you hadn't been here (several talking away from mic)
Hayek/ You...you'll have to come up here and grab one of the mics so we can pick you up.
Tallman/ ...expanded definition of (mumbled) just wanted to make sure that there weren't any
questions about that.
Hayek/ While we have you here, at least make it worthwhile...
Karr/ Julie, there's an extra chair right here.
Tallman/ Okay.
Hayek/ I just feel bad to let you go home without (laughter) questions. Yeah! (several talking)
Wright/ Everybody has to suffer just a little bit.
Tallman /Just a little!
Hayek/ Yeah, uh, rationale behind the...the specific dollar amounts proposed. Is this...what
makes sense?
Tallman/ I really don't know the rationale behind the expanded fines. I only know that a $100
fine is so negligible that it doesn't compel any change in behavior, and we typically use
the enhanced fines for other zoning violations and for environmental violations that occur
daily, daily, daily, daily, you know, it just makes sense.
Hayek/ Okay.
Dilkes/ I actually think we had a municipal infraction where we thought we had enhanced the
fines and had not. Um...so...
Tallman/ Yes, that is true. It came up months ago, and we thought this had been revised, um,
so...imagine our surprise!
Hayek/ Indeed we had not!
Tallman/ Uh-huh!
Hayek/ Okay. Well, I haven't gotten any input from the public on this at all, so I'm not
anticipating any issues tomorrow. Okay, thank you.
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Tallman/ Thank you!
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Hayek/ Other agenda items? Going once, going twice! Okay. Uh, Gilbert Street streetscape, IP
number 3 on your November 24 packet.
Gilbert Street Streetscape (IP3 of 11/24 Info Pkt):
Fosse/ Want me to dive in?
Hayek/ Sure!
Fosse/ Okay. This is a project that is...is been around for some time, uh, under one name or
another in the capital program, if you go back quite a ways, you'll see that it first
appeared as the, uh, Gilbert Street railroad underpass project, which incidentally is still
out on the...the unfunded list, and we'll talk about that a little later. Uh, but after the
Gilbert/Bowery/Prentiss intersection project, and along with the gradual redevelopment
of the west side of the corridor along there, it just became apparent that a streetscape
project is in order along there. There were a number of maple trees that came out when
we did the intersection project, which opened up some nice views of The Mansion, but
other than that it left it looking a little stark in there, and with the, uh, emerald ash bore
on the way, uh, that...that will probably take care of our remaining trees in that corridor.
So we need to be planning ahead for that, uh, and also what we have shaping up there
is...is, uh, we're really very heavily pedestrian use corridor. We have multi-family, uh,
lining both sides of that, as well as commercial along the entire west side of it, and it's
not a very pedestrian friendly corridor, so what we looked at doing is how can we
improve that. Um, what emerged from the design process was more substantial project
than what we originally thought about, or what we originally conceived, and by
substantial I mean more expensive. Uh, a lot of that has to do with how we accommodate
that difference in grade between the sidewalk and the street. There's a fairly... fairly
significant change there. Um, so what we want to do tonight is...is share with you the
design concepts, and uh, if you like those, then talk about how we might be able to carve
those up into affordable chunks and get the project done, or alternatively, uh, we can go
back to the drawing board and...and try and come up with less expensive alternatives. So
with that, I'd like to turn it over to Brian Boelk, uh, one of...our Senior Design Engineer,
and he'll take you through the project.
Boelk/ Thanks, Rick. Uh, yeah, you know, just to give you a little more quick background on
the corridor itself. As most of you probably are aware, in 2008 we did the Gilbert Street
and Bowery/Prentiss Street intersection project, in which we added those left turn lanes
on Gilbert Street, and then also upgraded the utilities through there, and mainly the storm
sewer and the water mains, and then shortly thereafter, uh, we did receive some Council
requests to take a look at the streetscape in that area and the landscaping that, uh, was the
result of that project at the intersection itself, and in the capital improvement program,
um, FY2010, uh, there was money allotted for such a project, and at that time my
understanding is that was more confined to that intersection itself, of Gilbert/Bowery/
Prentiss. As Rick said, uh, as things have continued to build along there, and businesses
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have, uh, added to and increased along that corridor, uh, the scope has enhanced a bit and
lengthened as we've gone from Prentiss Street to Burlington Street trying to, uh, wrap
that whole corridor into this streetscape area. Uh, Confluence was hired, landscape
architect, to do the design on this, and at this point we have anticipated construction, uh,
next summer, uh following the school year at the University due to the number of
pedestrians there. In terms of project development, uh, two main goals were looked at for
the project. One is to enhance the visual appearance of the corridor itself, and then also
include that pedestrian aspects of the corridor, uh, and that would be in terms of
space...in providing a space and need for all the pedestrians that are through there, and
then also again on the visual appearance, uh, getting some vegetative and softening that
landscape through there. Uh, from that, the design objectives were, number one, improve
some lighting through there. Safety was a concern with regards to the lighting, as well as
just making that a focal point with all the businesses at night. Uh, again, softening the
aesthetics by adding some trees and vegetative landscaping, uh, provide some benches
and bike racks. That was, um, repeated time and time again from some business owners
through that corridor. And then also just get a consistent brick paver material,
hardscapes, off-scape combination that is, uh, consistent throughout the corridor. From
that, uh, hopefully you can somewhat see this here...is some proposed design from
Confluence, um, as we have it today, and it's kind of hard to...figure this out, but this is,
up here, Kum n' Go, that'd be Burlington Street, and as we go we're going south along
here to Court Street, then you'll be jumping down and continuing south all along here.
So what you're looking at is the west side of Gilbert Street, um, Downtown Liquor,
Pappa John's, Kum n' Go...and uh, what you're seeing is a, uh, a combination of the
hardscape and softscape, the...the hard thing in this area is, we're dealing with an arterial
street, with a lot of vehicular traffic, as well as a lot of pedestrian traffic, and trying to
find that combination to appease both, uh, is somewhat difficult. In addition, we have the
slope, as Rick alluded to, uh, from the sidewalk to the back of curb, that poses problems,
uh, hard to maintain any type of grass, or sod, in that area, and...and so we need to find a
combination between that hardscape and softscape, so what Confluence has done is
provided, uh, trees throughout the corridor by use of different grate systems or a street
planter areas, as well as hardscape it with the use of brick pavers between the sidewalk
and the back of curb. Again, trying to get that so they match the same pattern, uh, same
color, throughout and as you can see, um (mumbled) we continue south, uh, we would be
adding trees, in between the trees here are benches, um, also it might be hard to see, but
there would be lighting, uh, spread out and that'd be alternating, eventually alternating on
the sides of the street, on Gilbert Street between the west side and the east side, and then
also bike racks, um, as you will see, uh, here in front of the Sanctuary a couple bike racks
here, a couple more down here by Falbo's. As we jump across south of the creek, we
would then, uh, as this plan is shown, folks on the east side, which would be in front of
The Mansion, again, getting some trees and grate systems into the parkway between the
curb here, and the street. Looking at that in a little more detail, uh, what Confluence has
done again with regards to that slope, the difficult part there is to try to make that work
with regards to planters and also make that a grade that, um, is both safe for pedestrians,
as well as appeasing aesthetically, so uh, we've come up with some raised planter looks,
looking at a detail here of what that raised planter may be with the sidewalk on your left.
And then this would be the parkway of brick pavers down to the curb on Gilbert Street.
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Some of which may be flush, which is a grate system where we don't have the elevation
difference, others raised with aseat-wall type look to it. And this would be as you're
looking at the businesses, um...they're just north of the creek, uh, looking at an overall
view of what that might be from the street side of things, from looking at it from Gilbert
Street to the businesses, what that wall would look like as you go along...I'll show you a
little more detailed version of that. Uh, this would be what we call aknee-wall or seat-
wall with your brick pavers again between your back of curb and the wall. This site
either being directly on the sidewalk or a tree planter area in which you'd see some
vegetation and trees there, and then this would be just a little closer up look on that...that
wall as a whole as we look at, uh, again, what that would be in more detail, um, as it's
being shown right now, um, some aesthetic features on that too, whether it be, um,
coloring or recessed, uh, points throughout the wall.
Fosse/ I'll build on that just a little bit. First of all, apologize we didn't spend the money on 3-D
renderings of this so you gotta kind of use your imagination a bit there. Um, the solution
that we originally anticipated is one that we used along College Street, when we did that
block just...just east of the Library, and that is where we have a steady slope from the
front of the walk down to the back curb, and we just cover that with brick. Uh, two
differences between that block and this block. One is we have a steeper slope to
accommodate, and the second difference is is that we're sloping down to a busier arterial
street, versus a local street now, and that's where we...we, uh, gravitated toward the
knee-wall concept, so that provides a...a firm barrier, and difference between the
pedestrian area, uh, makes a comfortable space there, and we're not worried about
somebody slipping and sliding, especially in the winter time down that steep slope, out
onto an arterial street there.
Dickens/ What is the height of the...the wall there, because is that going to keep people from
cutting across the street too?
Fosse/ That's...that's the other benefit of that, exactly! (several talking and laughing) It'll just
be (several talking)
Boelk/ Typically it's no more than 3 feet. It's typically in the 2, 2 '/2 foot range.
Champion/ How wide is the sidewalk there?
Boelk/ Uh, I believe that's (both talking) yeah, I believe it's about 8 foot.
Champion/ Oh it is! Okay. I was thinking, how can you get all that on there. Seems to me it's
narrow, but maybe not.
Boelk/ And there is one section, uh, as you stand south towards...towards the creek there, I
believe, where we would take out existing, it's 4 or 5 feet, we'd be widening that out to
match the rest.
Fosse/ That will not be replacing the sidewalks on the bridge. Those are I think just 6 feet.
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Wright/ So how deep is this? I can't see any of the numbers of course from curb to the end of
the sidewalk, how...
Boelk/ From the curb to the sidewalk?
Wright/ Yeah.
Boelk/ Uh...question, um, I don't know if (mumbled) um...I believe we're talking probably
about a, uh, 8-foot range. Eight to ten. In which you'd have a couple feet, I think it's
about 3 feet of brick pavers, which would then go to the seat-wall, knee-wall if you will,
which would provide the planter area with the proper width to get the trees in. And
which Parks and Rec, um, Terry and Sherry have been in the review process on
this with regards to the plant material and how they would be, um, established and
maintained.
Fosse/ Let's back up one, and...well, maybe two. So looking down from above, you see you've
got this space between the back of the curb and the face of the wall, and then you've got
the planters on the backside of the wall, in the pedestrian space, and then you have these
areas where bicycle racks and congregating, which is outside the traveled way of the
sidewalk, but on the, uh, on the sidewalk side of the wall, if you will.
Hayek/ Is the...go back to where you just were, that darker shaded area, um, is that all...that's
brick as well?
Boelk/ Correct.
Hayek/ So it's not just the street to the wall, it's the interior up to where the sidewalk is,
wherever there are not trees.
Boelk/ Yep. So this would be your sidewalk here, correct. That would be the delineation
between the sidewalk and the paver, and then this would be your curb.
Wright/ And then the sidewalk would be about 8 feet?
Boelk/ Yes. As we get up closer to the Kum n' Go, these are more flush grates, uh, as you can
see they encroach into the sidewalk. Those would be grates that are flush with the walk
at that point. Um, you know, one thing we had from the business owners was making
sure we still have ample room for snow removal (mumbled) so that was incorporated into
the design, as well.
Bailey/ Do you have more slides?
Boelk/ Yeah.
Bailey/ Okay. I...no, I...I had some questions but...
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Boelk/ Sure! This is a look as we go south there at The Mansion, uh, I guess as originally
proposed, or as proposed now, and again, this being a focal point to begin with and
um...instigating some of the project, uh, and as you see here, this was softening up.
These hatched shaded areas around the entrance in the walk here and on these corners
would be a low-lying vegetative, like daylilies, hostas, ground cover, and then in addition
to that was some, uh, additions of some trees, I believe four (mumbled) trees on this
property area. Um, and...and in addition to that...if I go back here, you'll see there,
again, there was some trees added to the parkway area and the streetscaping, between the
walk and curb, in front of The Mansion as well.
Wright/ And so that vegetation would be on The Mansion's property and (both talking)
Boelk/ ...good question, and uh, we have met with The Mansion. We've met with all the
business owners individually, as well as had an open house for business owners, tenants,
and the general public, um, in those individual business owner meetings with The
Mansion, we have had those discussions with regard to maintenance, that...that this
installation would be as part of the City project, but the maintenance would then go back
to the property owner, um, and...and one of the inputs we did get back from him was, uh,
Mr. Skaugstad was that to keep it as simple and, uh, low-maintenance obviously as
possible. He, to be honest, was fine without this additional vegetation, without the lilies,
the hostas, the ground cover. He thought some trees would be sufficient enough. Again,
we kind of went with the Cadillac version, if you will, to begin with, as...as that's what
we were directed (mumbled) focal point on the project. So, you know, in his...my
discussions with him, if we got some trees in there and stuff, he was good. They liked
more of the open view to their building, um, but as is shown right here, it's...little more
than that.
Fosse/ So what's likely to come out of the final design, if we go this route, is...is a more
simplified version that probably just would involve the trees, because there's...if they're
looking for simple maintenance and...and we would be looking to them to maintain it,
they really don't want to get a lot of ground cover in there and...and from...from my
view, I think we're better off with...with well-kept grass versus not well-kept plantings.
(several responding)
Boelk/ One concern with there being the debris and everything else, and garbage, that may be
blowing in and...congregating in that vegetation. Uh, leading to the cost (mumbled)
Rick touched on to begin with, originally budget in the CIP was $317,000. Again, that
was more of a focus at that Bowery/Prentiss/ Gilbert intersection area, um...once
Confluence took a look at this and extended that scope, more than even what I've shown
on the plans. It'd be both the east and west side, between Burlington and Prentiss/
Bowery. The costs were more in the $860,000 range. As...as a result, they proposed
some phasing for this project, and that being, uh, breaking that up into a phase 1 and
phase 2. Phase 1 being what I just showed you here, um, and I guess...actually I'll get
into that in a minute here. Sorry for the different slide, but that phase 1 being roughly
$405,000 construction cost, um, and then phase 2 being $455,000 estimated construction,
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and that does include about 10% contingency. What those phases look like, and this is
hard to see so I will also give you some pictures here, but the hatched purple would be
phase 1. Again, this would be the west side of Gilbert Street, between Burlington and
Ralston Creek, and then the east side of Gilbert Street, between Ralston Creek and
Bowery Street. Uh, similar to what I just showed you earlier with the plan. Phase 2 then
jump over to the east side, from Burlington to Ralston Creek, and then pick up the west
side between Ralston...Ralston Creek, excuse me, uh, down towards the railroad. One of
the reasons we kept this area in a phase 2 is knowing that there might be some future
development here coming, um, in this corridor, and we could... if we had the plan in place
so the typical cross...cross section for that streetscape, uh, it could incorporate that into
those site plans and stuff for additional buildings here. Taking a look at that more in
today's view, uh, again, this would be phase 1, would be kind of looking from here from
Ra1s...Ralston Creek side up to Burlington Street. As you can see, this is the area where
we really have the concern with the slope and being able to maintain any type of sod or
vegetation or whatnot in here, and this was where you'd see that seat-wall area along
here, um, with some raised planters, and then the other part of phase 1, again, featuring
on The Mansion area here. Uh, just a few other discussion items, again, like I said we
had, um, several meetings with the property owners individually, as well as the tenants.
Um, these were the main comments that we have received out of those. One was that
lighting was the most important, the highest priority, to all them as tenants and business
owners. Uh, so they, um, certainly more than welcomed any additional lighting we could
do. What we plan to do there is match the, uh, streetscape pedestrian lighting that
continues down Gilbert Street to the north, also that matching Dubuque Street where we
have the two-headed, one on the vehicular side, one on the pedestrian side, uh, decorative
lighting. Trash receptacles were requested by many of the tenants. That currently was
not in our proposed plan, but we have since discussed that with the landscape architect,
uh, and something we can certainly add, though it's a maintenance concern from Parks
and Rec. Uh, and also cost, um, concern with them as far as maintaining those, emptying
them out, and if there's any damage to them, keeping those maintained. Uh, there was
some concerns with vandalism with regards to the trees, um, and landscaping in general.
One other additional, um, I guess positive you could say from having the elevated and
raised planters is that does help get those trees up off the ground so they're not as likely
to be hit or kicked or ran over or whatever it may be with regards to a bike or a
pedestrian, so that does help there, and then again the other comment, uh, from The
Mansion itself was to keep the landscaping plain, uh, plans simple and low maintenance,
as much as possible. One other addition...additional item I'll bring up was, as Rick
alluded to, uh, originally the railroad pedestrian underpass was a...a main point, um, in
this corridor. That still is on the books and has been looked at. Currently we have
estimated cost for that at $250,000. Again, that's segregating, separating the, uh,
pedestrian sidewalk, right now which is right up to the back of curb on Gilbert Street
underneath the railroad, getting that more behind the pier, separation there, uh, for safety
reasons between the pedestrians, the vehicular traffic. That is currently not in this
phasing, or in this total $860,000, as shown here. So again we just brought this to you
feeling that we're at a time where we have the design narrowed down, cost estimates
obviously being higher than it was originally anticipated, and wanted your opinion, your
feedback, some direction as to where you think we can go, um, a couple different options,
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again, would be to, you know, modify the design and scope of the overall project to help
meet this budget, or um, what we're recommending is commit some additional money
and try to phase this project out. One of the things with the phasing is you could do this
phase 1 and maybe the phase 1 gets implemented and we look at it and we say, this takes
care of...this softens up this corridor, makes it look like what we want, or...or maybe not,
and we need to proceed with a phase 2 and plan accordingly. But we thought we'd bring
this to you and, uh, get your input or feedback or questions.
Wright/ How expensive is the brick, uh, (mumbled) the colored brick. Is that a significant chunk
of the...
Boelk/ It...it is when you add up the total area.
Bailey/ Is that brick or stamped concrete?
Boelk/ It's brick. It's concrete paver.
Wright/ So I was just wondering about stamped concrete, if that would (several talking) the
effect without the substantial cost of laying that brick.
Champion/ And maintaining it!
Wright/ Yeah, and the brick doesn't seem to have the best lifespan.
Fosse/ Our...our experience with the, uh, with concrete pavers is they don't necessarily hold up
as well over time as...as the vitrified clay pavers, and uh, however, the industry seems to
be going toward the concrete because they're more standardized and... and available and
interchangeable, whereas the brick...the vitrified clay are different sizes.
Wright/ Well, rather than even the pavers, uh, I've seen...
Champion/ Like we did the bridge!
Wright/ ...colored cement that's...etched to give the effect of brick.
Fosse/ Yeah. I...I think that, uh, if we look at the cost estimate line by line, a good deal of what
we're seeing here is the cost of...of the retaining walls and the...the planters, which
essentially are retaining walls built in a rectangular shape to hold those trees in.
Bailey/ Before we go line by line, I just...I want to ask some broader questions about this
project, because this is a project I've been interested in, and I noted that it was on our
2009 budget, $310,000, and it was the entire corridor is what we estimated at that time.
So, we're talking about this project that we've been carrying on our CIP for a couple of
years, right?
Fosse/ Yes.
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Bailey/ Okay. So, I identified the correct project, and...it was my understanding when we did
this intersection that some of this was not only incorporated in that separate project, but
some of it... some of these considerations were supposed to be incorporated to a degree
within the street project, but now we're putting like the tree consideration, cause we kept
talking about trees as part of that initial plan, but now all the trees are in this streetscape
project, um...is that...when we talked about doing the street, I mean, that was one of
the...maybe some of you weren't around this table, that was a huge discussion, because
trees were coming out for this, and it was...it was part of that initial street project, not
only in the streetscape, and then there would be additional plantings with the streetscape
project, is what I understood about those projects. But, now...everything has to come in
the streetscape project. Is that correct?
Fosse/ Yes it is, and...and what happened when that intersection project came together, um, you
know, I don't recall the exact details of this. The trees did not make it in to that (both
talking)
Bailey/ Right, and...and they were...I remembered that discussion and whether, you know,
whether they made it in or not, but I mean, so there's nothing lagging behind from that
initial project that has to be incorporated into this. So we're trying to address the
problems, or...the um...what we had to do to make those turn lanes, now with the
streetscape project, right?
Fosse/ Yes.
Bailey/ Okay. And, always we anticipated that it would be the entire corridor, so that doesn't
necessarily account for the increased cost, is my understanding, because in every CIP
it's...it's mentioned the entire corridor.
Fosse/ Right...right.
Bailey/ I mean, maybe it was just a dramatic under-estimate (laughter) unfortunately.
Boelk/ Yeah.
Fosse/ And... and again, the big different is, in the original concept those, the walls, the knee-
walls, were not anticipated.
Bailey/ Right, right. And so, we've then nothing, even though that was in the 2009 budget,
we...we haven't touched any of that project. This is the project coming forward, right?
Fosse/ That's correct.
Bailey/ Okay. I just wanted to make sure we're apples to apples here (mumbled) Okay. Um...
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Boelk/ And I think one of the things we thought was going to happen too with...with the Gilbert/
PrentissBowery Street project was, you know, there, in the right of way portion there
was compensation to the property owner, and we thought maybe they'd come back with a
landscaping plan on their own property and (both talking) they loved the view of how it is
now, open, and sod and...and decided they don't (both talking)
Bailey/ ...that's where I remember the tree discussion coming is The Mansion; they're looking at
trees; we're talking to them about some landscaping on their property; and they
just...didn't want it.
Fosse/ That's correct.
Bailey/ Okay. All right. Okay, now I feel a little bit more up to speed that we're talking about
something we've talked about for a long time. Okay.
Dickens/ Does this area bordering the River Crossing area at all? Is this...it's going to bump up
to it, the edge of it?
Bailey/ How does this impact bicyclists, if we do this streetscape with walls? It feels very
constraining to me if I think of walls on both sides. I have a lot of...I like the concept of
keeping the trees out of, I mean...that would set them aside and set them apart and
maybe...maybe better care would be taken, but it feels very...if I were...and I have, and
you probably have ridden your bike down Gilbert Street, it feels like it would be very
trapping.
Fosse/ There's a lot stuffed into that corridor, in that we've got five lanes at either end of the
corridor and then four in the middle there, and that's why that...that area between the
back of the curb and the sidewalk varies in width. Um, but as far as...as riding your
bicycle on the roadway, the lane widths will remain the same.
Bailey/ No bike lanes.
Fosse/ No bike lanes, and you really, uh, don't want to be riding your bicycle on the sidewalks
along there, in the existing condition or the proposed. Well, it's just too constrained. It's
like the downtown area, although I don't think we'll have a prohibition of bicycles (both
talking)
Bailey/ We don't...I don't think.
Fosse/ No.
Dickens/ South of Burlington, I know (both talking)
Bailey/ South, yeah, and there are lots of curb cuts there though and being on the sidewalk
almost feels more dangerous sometimes.
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Wilburn/ I do recall some conversations, uh, in addressing parts of the, some of the public's
concerns about trees disappearing was that there would be some replacement in trees and
in terms of the entire corridor, I don't know how much or if this contributed to the...the
range of the estimate, but there was also some disagreement amongst Council as to which
portion of the corridor should be the focus and (both talking)
Bailey/ ...Prentiss to Burlington...
Wilburn/ ...wanted it to go all the way down to the Gilbert Street and (both talking)
Bailey/ It did say that Prentiss to Burlington, that was the narrative though.
Wilburn/ Yeah, okay. All right.
Bailey/ But I mean...we all know how retaining walls increases the...estimate.
Hayek/ So how does this fit into CIP? (several talking)
Fosse/ Yeah, we're putting the...the capital program together now, and phase 1 at...at the given
estimate, uh, where we think that we can make that work in...in FY12, get that
constructed. Phase 2, we need to look at one of the out-years, and it...we've got, uh,
some tight years in 12 and 13, uh, from a bonding perspective. So it may be out in
the...in the FY14 year range, uh, for that...for that subsequent phase.
Hayek/ Yeah, although if we commit to a...a phase 1 like that, we're essentially committing to
completing the process (several talking) are we not?
Fosse/ (noises on mic) this can be standalone, if...if you were satisfied with the end product.
Bailey/ But phase 1 is even over budget, for what we've got, I mean, we thought it was going to
be, what, 317,000?
Fosse/ Yeah.
Champion/ You might not need phase 2 because that's all fairly new construction along there,
and if there is some other construction, you can kind of...I don't fee1...I think the west
side of the street is really...needs some help.
Bailey/ I think it's the intersection area too, though, I mean, I think that's where (both talking)
Champion/ You mean Court and...
Bailey/ The Prentiss and The Mansion corner, I mean...if we could get some trees on that
property and some larger trees, I think that would help a lot.
Champion/ That functions.
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Wright/ I think the townhouses going north there from The Mansion also are a little on the stark
side right now. That's phase 2.
Champion/ Well, I don't know. What about the person that built those? Don't they have any
responsibility? I...I tell ya, I can't support this amount of money for this. (several
talking) I can't support it, but I can support something, but not this.
Bailey/ Well and...and I'm glad that the City Forester's been around the table, but I, you know,
the maintenance issue, and we have other areas of town where our trees really, I mean,
we have a lot of gaps with tree maintenance downtown, and even on College Street, and
it concerns me that we're adding a lot more maintenance, and I appreciate the fact
that...they say that they can keep up with it, but...we've got to play a lot of catch up too.
And I can't support this number... at all.
Wright/ Too big!
Bailey/ It's big!
Boelk/ (mumbled) another option would be to modify, you know, what we have scope with the
(both talking)
Bailey/ What can we get for $300,000 (laughter and several talking)
Fosse/ Okay, and that was the next question, if we scale back and redesign, do we want to reduce
the...the length of the project, stick with the existing concept and just do less of it now or
do we want to, uh, rethink our concept and... and basically do the same length of project,
but hopefully at a...at lower cost?
Wright/ I'd like to see a rethinking of the project and see what other ideas could be applied that
might still work.
Fosse/ Okay.
Bailey/ I like the planter concept, but that wall effect along Gilbert Street, like I said, if
we're...we're complete streets town and that concerns me about it feels like a barrier, and
if you got into trouble on a bike and there's just a curb (several talking) you can get up
there, I mean, even if it's a curb and a tree and some plantings, but if there's a wall,
you're smushed!
Fosse/ Yeah, the wall will be back about three to four feet, for snow storage (several talking)
Boelk/ Which provides you at least a flatter space to get off on, whereas now it's sloped up and
ramped up.
Bailey/ It's still...
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Mims/ My other concern is with all...with pavers and stuff and the maintenance long-term, I
mean, you know, what are getting ourselves into, not just in terms of the initial cost, but
maintenance down the road.
Champion/ Weeds, trash...
Mims/ And I mean, you know, trying to do...do a project that is going to look nice, is within our
budget, but also is trying to keep those maintenance costs, I mean, you know, we've
asked about, I know Matt has brought up and we're going to see, you know, the brick
replacement on the streets. Well, you know, I know this isn't on the street, but you still
have some of those same issues long-term, um...in terms of what we're going to have for
maintenance costs for those bricks, I mean...
Fosse/ Okay. Well, I think I have the direction that we need tonight (several talking)
Bailey/ We just want to buy some trees!
Mims/ Pretty but cheap! (laughter)
Fosse/ Okay! Well, that's...that's exactly why we got this in front of you, because this...this had
grown to a point at which we were uncomfortable proceeding with it, without checking
back in with you, and I'm glad we did. We got the direction we need now.
Hayek/ We appreciate that. (several talking)
Champion/ Sorry, but we need, do need lighting there. We really do need lighting.
Bailey/ Pedestrian level lighting and...
Champion/ Uh-huh. So...
Hayek/ All right.
Boelk/ Thank you. (several responding)
Champion/ I have a hard time saying we spend a million dollars on a streetscape for a block and
a half.
Single Stream/Multi-family Recycling
Hayek/ Thanks, Brian. Okay. (several talking) Speaking of money, let's talk about, uh, single
stream and multi-family recycling.
Jordan/ Good evening, Council. (several talking)
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Hayek/ Hi, Jen.
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Fosse/ Well, this is, uh, follow up to a work session that we had back in August of 2009, if you
can remember back at that point, and we discussed opportunities to improve the recycling
rate in Iowa City, and by rate...I want to clarify what we're talking about there because
there's two connotations there. Uh, the way we're using it tonight is...is in a context of
the amount recycled per capita. So think in volume or pounds, not in dollars. We're not
talking about the...the monthly fee, although we'll touch on that tonight. Um, but back
in August of 09 we had a specific focus on converting to a single stream system with two
objectives in mind. One is improving that recycling rate, and secondly for that to serve as
a springboard of getting into the multi-family recycling, uh, for those units, four units and
above, in Iowa City that currently do not have curbside recycling, and that's a big factor
in... in expanding our recycling rate. Um, at that time, the markets did not support
converting the single stream without an increase in our monthly fee for that service, um,
so consequently we stayed with our existing source separated, separate, uh, before it gets
to the curb, and...and our instructions from you all were to come back in 18 months, uh,
you know, regroup, come back in 18 months with more ideas on this. Um, 18 months
would put us out in February, and as Regenia pointed out a couple weeks ago, that's at
the tail end of the budget process. It's really better to be talking about this at the front
end of the budget process. So that's...that's why we're here this evening. Um...the
markets really haven't changed in the meantime, but we have been working on new ideas,
and Jen will share those with you tonight, along with our recommendations, and then
we'll get some input from you all on where we want to go. So, Jen, you want to take it
away?
Jordan/ Thanks, Rick. I'll try not to talk too fast, but I need to get everything out before I lose
my voice the rest of the way, so please bear with me. (laughter) Um, all right. I've been
chasing...trying to run from this cold all week and it caught me today. Okay, so this is
basically just a summary of what Rick has already pointed out, that the recycling rates
really have been stagnant over the past five or six years in Iowa City for curbside rates.
Uh, per household we recycle about 200 tons per year, which equates down to about six,
excuse me, 16 pounds per month per household, just to give you kind of the general idea.
So if you think about how much you put your curbside bin out, the average in Iowa City
is 16 pounds per month. Um, and again, Council asked staff to further investigate both
single stream as a way to increase that rate and as an expansion to multi-family. Okay,
that's gonna...okay, so there are four things that I want to talk about source separated
versus single stream. Um, the first two are here. Cost is one of the major factors. On
everything that we've presented, um, that's not quite 18 months ago, and I'm not usually
early, so this is a little bit disconcerting to be here before my 18 month time period
(laughter) uh, we have some really firm numbers now, because at that time, uh, Council
directed staff to write in the option of switching to single-stream into our contract, which
we did with City Carton Recycling. We know that cost now is $65 per ton. I'm going to
back up just a second to the source separated. We're currently not paying a tipping fee,
or sorting fee, to City Carton Recycling when we take materials to them, because we ask
the residents to do the labor for us, so they're bearing the cost of that. Um, the City
already bears, or incurs the transportation costs in our curbside collection vehicles. We
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pass that cost along to the residents, the 14,800, um, households who have curbside
service. And that...oh, I won't get into that right now. Um, so the single stream then
would be $65 per ton, um, at the current recycling rate of about 65%, or roughly 2,000
tons per month. It's going to look at about $104,000 annually. Um, conservatively, that
would look like about 75-cents per month increase per household, um, that's on top of a
50% increase, excuse me, 50-cent increase that we just had...November 1St I believe. So,
they...residents just saw an increase in the last couple of months. Um, so that would take
it from the 4.10 which is the new rate, to the 4.85. Um, the irony with single stream is
that, as you do better, it costs more because you're paying to process more, so it's one of
the things I wanted to make sure I pointed out. Okay, so the partition...the participation
rates are one of the reasons that, um, staff looked at potentially moving to single stream
in the first place. Communities have been seeing participation rate increases, and
tonnage increases, with the change to single stream. It's perceived by the public to be an
easier system to use, so um...it's of course obvious then that if it's easier to use, people
perceive it to be more easy, or easier to use, excuse me, they're going to use it more
and...and use it better frankly. Um...on the other hand, other communities who haven't
made that change to single stream, who either do a source separated system like we have
or use a dual stream system, which is essentially fiber, so paper, cardboard, magazines in
one part of the sort, and then containers so metals and plastics in the other part of the sort
dual stream, um, they've seen similar increases simply with education. So, um...I...I
think the education is a huge part of it here, with either a change to single stream or with
maintaining the existing program. The key is really, really education. Um, that being
said, Iowa City hasn't had a curbside education program since glass was removed from
the program eight years ago, and I still get lots of questions from public...the public, why
don't we have glass in the program, um, do I have to take the lids off my plastic bottles,
do I have to take the paper off the cans, those are really questions that should have been
answered a long, long time ago, um, but we still see them a lot. Okay, so the third thing
is a contamination issue. Um, right now when staff picks up the bins at the curb, they
essentially, if someone hasn't done a good job of recycling, they will essentially, for the
most part, clean it up for them and make sure it gets in the right place. With single
stream, it pretty much takes that responsibility away from residents of having to have a
sorted stream. Um, it basically increases the risk of a, kind of a throw it all in mentality
and let the city figure it out or let the...the processor, whoever it would be, in this case
City Carton, let them figure it out. Um, we do have...right now our contamination rate is
less than 1% with the curbside system we have. I think that we have a 1.5% limit. I did
not check that before tonight, but I think that's what it is. Moving to a single stream, we
would have a 5% limit on contamination. Anything over that 5%, um, based on weight,
would be considered a contaminated load and would get charged at the premium $75 rate,
and I haven't confirmed this, but I would suspect that if it gets to the point where we're
having multiple contaminated loads over and over, a lot of it would end up going to the
landfill, so that's a major concern with single stream. While your participation rates and
your tonnages may increase significantly, you may end up taking more materials to the
landfill in the long run anyway, so that's a concern. Okay, so the final bullet point then is
the materials recovery facility, um, asource-separated system like we currently have
would support potential, future materials recovery facility. Um, what that is basically,
instead of dumping garbage into the landfill, you would dump it onto a tipping floor and
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the vast majority of the materials could be sorted out and diverted, so for instance, about
33% of what goes into Iowa's landfills is either paper or cardboard. So most of those
materials could be sorted out and recycled. If they're past the point of recycling, they
could be composed. So...a...there's alot of potential for the City at some point looking
at what's called a `dirty MRF' because a `clean MRF' is where we would take single
stream recycling to have it sorted into different cycling streams. `Dirty MRF' would
include the trash being dumped with that, as well, so asource-separated system would
support that, excuse me. A single stream wouldn't. We'd basically be shooting
ourselves in the foot. We'd be mixing everything together and then have to take it back
to a City facility to sort it anyway, and incur those costs as well, so um, another factor in
the staff recommendation. Okay, so...the next question then is what are other
communities doing. Um, Des Moines metro, which is made up of 22 communities in the
Des Moines area went to single stream, um...last summer? And they, the EOW is every
other week. So they went from a, uh, amulti-stream system like we currently have with
weekly pickup, to a single stream with every other week, and I've listed the three
communities; the top, kind of the median, and then the minimum, the community that
does the lowest of all those, um, they have a pretty good range of recycling. They do a
pretty good job. Their education has been amazing. They had a staff of probably four or
five people just doing education for the first year of this. So, the educational aspect is a
huge part of it! Davenport, um, Scott County, has a dual stream every other week pickup.
They pick up, uh, I'm sorry I didn't point out what the numbers were. The 56 pounds,
excuse me, 54 pounds per household per month. So think back to ours, and notice that on
the bottom of the list here, um, 16 pounds per household per month. So there's a
significant difference um...none of these, in looking at some of these communities, none
of them are doing...I mean, they're all doing exceptionally better than we are,
unfortunately, but none of them are doing, um, something that's really far and above the
rest. The main thing that the communities are doing is they're doing good education. If I
had to pick the three best environmental education programs in the state, as far as
recycling, I would say would be Des Moines metro, Scott County, and the Cedar Rapids-
Linn County (mumbled) so I'm in very close contact with all of those and the others as
well as the President of the Iowa Recycling Association, and I would say that they have
probably the best three education programs in the state.
Hayek/ Jen, can I interrupt you. Oh, go ahead.
Bailey/ Go ahead.
Hayek/ Well I was going to ask, to calculate the pounds per household, are you dividing that into
the number of households in Iowa City?
Jordan/ The number of households served. Yes. So we're...and we would use the, um...the
(both talking)
Hayek/ ...multi-family is not part of that calculation (both talking) because they're not served.
Jordan/ Right.
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Hayek/ Okay.
Champion/ I think the other thing that's a problem in Iowa City is...for us calculating that is we
have this...we have a couple really great recycling centers, that people would rather take
their stuff to than...I never use the City curb thing. I have way too much recycling for
one thing. I never use it, and most of my neighbors don't use it, but it isn't because we're
not recycling. It's...
Jordan/ Thank you for pointing that out, Connie. These are...actually these numbers include the
drop off sites as well, with one exception in our case, which is City Carton.
Champion/ Wow! Well, that's (mumbled)
Jordan/ That's the main one. They do in a...in a year about what we do curbside, and at our
drop-off sites, which the City has five that the Landfill serves. That's (both talking)
Champion/ ... so I think that's another consideration, um, but go on, because I think what you're
talking about is...or what Matt mentioned is multi-family, which we've got to get a grip
on that somehow.
Bailey/ Are they, um...are these all city programs? Is Des Moines metro outsourced or city?
Jordan/ The top three, Metro, Davenport, which is part of Scott County, um, with waste
commission, and Cedar Rapids-Linn County, they're all separate 28-E agreement
agencies, so...
Bailey/ Okay.
Jordan/ ...that's another aspect of it. I'm glad you brought that up.
Hayek/ So, I...by this, you can conclude that in Davenport households recycle three times as
much as Iowa City households recycle?
Bailey/ (mumbled) up here!
Jordan/ Right.
Wright/ Yeah.
Bailey/ I think that's...
Hayek/ And this is among participating households, not just...
Jordan/ No, that's not. This is among households who have access to curbside.
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Hayek/ Okay.
Jordan/ So, they're paying for it; they may or may not be using it.
Wright/ But they still have a significantly higher rate.
Bailey/ And I think that's why we keep discussing this (both talking)
Champion/ ...they're picked up monthly, so is that 32 pounds a month? Then ours would be
more than that!
Jordan/ No, these are all averaged out to a per month (several talking) so these numbers, as far as
I can understand from the study, compare apples to apples.
Fosse/ Yeah, the only thing that's not factored in...into ours is what's dropped at the City Carton
site itself. And that is, uh, as Jen pointed out about equal to everything else combined.
So if...if you double the amount, double our credit for what we recycle, that would get us
up in the...in the 32 pounds.
Bailey/ It's still not (several talking)
Jordan/ ...it's still on the low end.
Bailey/ Yeah.
Jordan/ And I mean, seeing Cedar Falls with absolutely no curbside program at all, and they still
have a better recycling rate than we do, I think it shows we have a lot of room for
improvement one way or the other, however that plays out. Um, again though, they do a
pretty good job. That's a city program. They do a pretty good job with education. Also
something that's not factored in here in all our refuse rates. Those can have a big effect
on people, on rather...determining how much they may or may not recycle. If they have
cheap garbage, they're going to throw more in the garbage. If they have more expensive
garbage, they're more than likely to recycle more.
Bailey/ (mumbled) Ames isn't on here. I'm just curious, cause I was looking at...I'm looking at
other university towns (several talking)
Jordan/ Actually, Ames is a little bit of an anomaly. They have a curbside program, um, they
have a couple drop-off sites as well, but they also have the one incinerator in the state, so
I don't...I don't know if that's why that wasn't factored in, or if it was just an oversight
on the (both talking)
Bailey/ No, I mean, I bet that.. .
Dickens/ ...go to a single stream effect the recycling facility we're building on Scott Boulevard?
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Fosse/ Only the drop-off component of that. We've got a lot of other things going on there as
well, and...
Dickens/ Yeah, I know there's a whole thing, but that's one of the main components of that
being built there was to have an eastside...facility there.
Fosse/ Investment-wise, the...the bins that will be there to put the recycling in is a small
component of that. It's mostly in the buildings for...for other (both talking)
Dickens/ ...recycling as much there, if it's all going into the single stream (several talking) going
out there.
Jordan/ I would say even if it does, it doesn't have much effect on the overall program. It's a
pretty small amount that goes through eastside, and the other drop-off sites, as well. It's
about 400 tons a year, versus the curbsides about four times that.
Hayek/ Okay.
Jordan/ All right. So staff recommendations, you've probably figured out by now, is to keep the
course separated system and to develop and implement a comprehensive curbside
recycling education outreach program, um, this would include...in the short-term,
evaluating the system to simplify streams as much as possible. We do currently get paid
for some of this, the material that we take to City Carton. If we shift things around a little
bit, I think we can see some efficiencies without losing those revenue streams, um, which
as Rick pointed out, the revenue streams are pretty meager right now, but they do have
potential in the near future. Um, we would also look at simplifying and redistributing the
how-to-sort sheets. Those get passed out, um, frequently, but they're often just put with
curbside bins that are already sent to the curb. So that's not reaching the 35% of
residents who have the service, who actually aren't recycling regularly. So, in Connie's
case, if you're not using your recycling bin, you're not going to get that flyer. So it's not
going to do you any good. We would really be looking at a door-to-door, face-to-face
educational campaign, um, I get calls from students all the time who are looking to do
volunteer hours, and I think that would be a great opportunity to utilize some of their, um,
time and energy and...energy most importantly. Um, we could certainly utilize the eco-
Iowa City grant if that's appropriate. That grant is officially over, but it could be revived
for this, um, and the grant was very successful and the, as was the partnership with the
Library, so I think that could be beneficial. And we'd work with IT to develop some
other online tutorials and video clips, that type of thing. We would definitely want to
continue measuring the monthly tonnages for improvement. (laughter) And then
develop...work on developing along-term curbside education program, um, a one-time
six-month education program is going to be looked really good for about the first year,
maybe even 18 months, um, but if that education program isn't continued, we're going to
see the same thing that we've seen going back to that first slide in the...in the, uh,
(mumbled) in the memo. It's going to taper off and it's eventually going to decrease
again. So, whatever Council decides as far as sticking with the current system or going to
single stream, education needs to be maintained over the long-term instead of just when
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there's small changes, or even large changes, as the case in glass to the system. So that's
really the...the key point there, I think.
Wilburn/ Of the cities with the...most significant, um...better rates than we have, uh, recycling
rates, um...how...did you look at, um, their landfill or their...their collection fees, how,
you know, Matt alluded to, you know, recycling three times more, how much more, uh,
how many times more are they, or they having their residential folks pay as opposed to
what we have?
Jordan/ That actually wasn't included in this study. The gentleman who did this, and it was just
basically a flurry of emails, was a public works staff member in Cedar Falls who does not
have the curbside recycling, and they're getting a lot of pressure from their public to start,
um, figuring something out, and they're...at the cusp where if they're going to go to
single stream, now would be the time to do it and start there from scratch. So it really
didn't include anything but, um, what was picked up at the curb, how it was picked up,
and what the costs were, so...um, but it does I think give a good overall idea of how
much was getting recycled. It doesn't show though, for instance, how much is still going
to the landfill. Those rates don't come in... into play here at all. So even though, for
instance, Des Moines metro might do...be doing a really good job of recycling, as it
looks from these numbers, they can still be sending five times as much to the landfill as
we are, so that doesn't really play into...those numbers don't really show that at all.
Bailey/ And you also said that perhaps if garbage pickup was, I mean, if costs for garbage
disposal was greater, that people are more motivated to recycle. So, those costs could
also inform a little bit of the motivator, the incentive, right?
Jordan/ Yes, and I think they do currently in that we have a...kind of a modified pay as you
throw system if you... if you will, uh, as it is we have either one container, the large
container if you've gotten one of those, or the...the smaller, you can put out two smaller
ones, for the 11.40 or 11.60 per month. Um, any more than that you have to pay
additional, one dollar additional sticker for so that's considered a modified pay as you
throw. There's a lot of leeway there!
Bailey/ Yeah, cause some of us could fill that up in a month...maybe!
Jordan/ Right, yeah. (several talking)
Bailey/ ...aren't garbageful!
Wright/ And we also have the situation where people...don't put the stickers on the additional
bags and they get picked up anyway.
Jordan/ Right, right.
Wright/ Which seems to be the norm.
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Jordan/ Yeah.
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Fosse/ And the...the dollar a bag has...has been a dollar bag since we started the program. So
there...there's been no increase in that. For a long time, so there's opportunity there.
Uh, to make it more expensive, to...to pay as you throw.
Bailey/ And enforce, or...do something about actually not...I don't know!
Wright/ Well, it's a... it's a two-edged sword. If you don't pick up the garbage, suddenly you've
got garbage all over the place. (several talking)
Fosse/ And...and we have a lot of people in this town that just love to pull those bags open to see
what's in there. So if it stays on the curb, it's...it's all over the place. And that's...that's
where you see that (several talking)
Jordan/ Okay, and then take a little bit of a turn here and move on to multi-family then. Um, so
about 45% of Iowa City residents live in five-plea or larger apartments, that, um, they do
not have recycling service required for their, um, apartments. Um, very few managers or
owners offer recycling, though I have heard of several, um, on occasion that do. It's been
by far the number one question that I've gotten in the last five years, um, I probably get
this question from students or...or non-students perhaps, um, more increasingly actually,
older folks who have moved back into condos from single-family homes and they don't
have recycling after having had it for their entire lives essentially, but it's definitely the
number one question I get from the public. Um, the drop-off sites are not enough, um,
we try to place the...have tried to place those strategically to reach as many people as
possible and we really try and focus, um...advertising to residents who live in multi-
family but that's a little bit difficult to do. In fact the studies that we've done, uh, both in
2003 and then we did a, kind of a follow up, uh, survey last year through eco-Iowa City,
the majority of people who are using the drop-off sites are people who already have
curbside recycling. So it's not reaching the...the audience that we're trying to reach.
Um, with multi-family recycling though there are significant barriers. Um, I listed them
out just a little bit in the...in the memo, but they include logistics, zoning, the building
and fire code issues, um, the politics simply of private versus public collection, um,
there's an ordinance actually limiting what the City can pick up currently, and then really
what it comes down to, or what it would come down to probably would be cost. Um, so
I'm...I won't go into all those, but I will just point out that other cities have dealt with
this recycling opportunity in a lot of different ways and, um, we've been talking about it
since at least 1992, so I...there are some models out there, and I think we can look at
doing something.
Wright/ It's time to stop talking! (several talking and laughing)
Bailey/ ...do something! (laughter)
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Jordan/ Well, the studies that were done in 92 and 95 and 98 all basically say the same things
that...that I've just said, that there's a lot of issues and we need to do something, so...I
would...um.. .
Hayek/ That's only 18 years! (laughter)
Jordan/ Yeah! As Rick pointed out the other day, if action had been taken up, you know, 18
years ago, we would have a lot, lot different problem on our hands now. It'd be a much
easier, uh, recycling program. Okay, so staff recommendation then is to amend the
Housing Code to include, um, excuse me, I think I have a typo there. To include require
recycling facilities and private recycling service in all new apartment buildings. So, we
won't have the same conversation again in 18 years! Hopefully! Um, just...this is what
the City does now for trash dumpsters and private waste hauler service, so it essentially
would be expanding it to include recycling services, as well, for new properties. Um, we
would want to work with property owners and Housing and Inspection Services, um,
we've already talked to them a little bit, to develop a range of solutions for the existing
apartment buildings, and that could be a couple different ways. Um, the City could do a
pilot project to show what was...what the options are, what other communities have
done, we could throw it out to the private sector and let them figure it out and see what
happens, um, in fact single stream may actually make a lot of sense for the private haulers
in those situations where they don't have a lot of space for multiple different bins or, you
know, they may...even have a hard enough time coming up with the space for one, um,
additional dumpster for a single stream, but...that might be a better way to go for them.
Um, and I think that eventually requiring recycling services for all apartment buildings is
really the...the long-term goal here for multi-family.
Fosse/ So if I might build on that little bit. All the...all the barriers that Jen talked about are in
existing multi-family dwellings. So if we amend...actually it's the zoning code, not the
housing code. I just learned that today. It's the zoning code that needs to be amended,
if...if they design for that from day one, we can get around those barriers. So we...we
just, pick a date, from this date forward, you will provide this service, just like you do
sewer, water, and garbage, and...and design for that and it's built into the system. That
takes care of everything from here forward. Uh, for the units built from here back, that's
more complicated, and we...we don't have a solution to that. There's probably not a
one-size-fits-all solution, so we're going to need to come up with a range of those things,
and that's where some of those pilot projects come in. I think some of the creativeness in
the private sector will come into play there too, and they'll be able to make
recommendations on how they can provide those services, and then we'd begin to work
our way back on the...on the other multi-family units.
Jordan/ I do have a...a presentation for the apartment owners association coming up in January,
so I'm looking forward to getting some of their feedback, um, at that luncheon.
Bailey/ So, you said a lot of cities have addressed. How have...are these, they've addressed it in
similar ways or are there...
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Jordan/ Yes, and to varying degrees of success. Um, the...kind of the prime example of
successful multi-family housing recycling is the Twin Cities, and they've had in place
since the mid-80s, um, Cedar Rapids actually does a pretty good job. Ironically the other
communities in Johnson County, with the exception of Iowa City and Coralville, all
have...all their multi-family housing has, uh, recycling available. The difference, of
course, is that Iowa City and Coralville have public collection and it's easier to...um, the
private haulers in the smaller communities in Johnson County, this is what we're getting
out. You figure it out, so they do! It works. Um, which...I'm trying to think in the Twin
Cities' case, it's actually anon-profit organization that runs the Twin Cities'. It looks
different in every community, um...Des Moines metro...Des Moines in particular of the
metro area, has a... an ordinance in place. From what I understand it's not well enforced
and there are a lot of issues with that. Not real successful. Um, those are the ones that
come to mind.
Hayek/ Two questions for you; one, um...assuming we move forward with, you know, actually
expand in the multi-family, your bottom bullet point about single stream may make more
sense for private haulers, um...and again assuming we move into multi-family, does that
temper your recommendation, or change your recommendation, overall as to single
stream?
Jordan/ Not at all. Thank you for asking. Um...when I last talked to Council, I was a proponent
of single stream, and I thought the only way to get to the multi-family was to use single
stream, and I don't think that's the case anymore after having done some research
in...and issues with contamination. I think that...keeping the stream as clean as possible
for what we have for the city is the best way to go and really working on the educational
aspect of it, um...the single stream may be the easiest way to go for amulti-family, but
it's not the only way!
Hayek/ Okay. And then second question is glass. I mean, it's...I think it causes confusion and
frustration to be able to recycle everything except glass...for which you have to take it to
Hy-Vee or a City drop-off or City Carton.
Jordan/ That's another question I get pretty frequently. (several talking) Right!
Champion/ (mumbled) I don't think places that have, you know (mumbled) because of
breakage.
Hayek/ No, they do. I was at my...it was ironic, I was at my brother's place in Glencoe, Illinois,
over Thanksgiving. Took a boatload of recyclables, including glass, out to their awesome
single-stream container (laughter), came inside, got on the Internet, and popped up either
the P-C or the Gazette article on this very staff, uh, recommendation, which, uh,
completely bummed me out. Uh, no, but I (laughter) cause I was excited about single
stream too, uh, for the same reasons you were! Um, in any event, but...but if we stick
with, uh, our current source separation, do we have options with glass that we could talk
about?
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Jordan/ I think that would be one of the things we would look at with, uh, maintaining streams of
revenue. Currently the glass that we pick up at drop-off sites around town within City
services, we actually pay for. Um, we pay either $10 per ton, or $50 per...excuse me,
$40 per ton, to have City Carton process that. So it would be, um, amoney-losing
venture though. There is the curbside, or excuse me, the drop-off recycling program is
probably just barely in the black, if at all, um...I think that would be one of the things we
would consider looking at, cause that's a question I get quite a bit too. The issues, from
what I understand when we...removed glass from the program about eight years ago
were, there were probably about three issues. The main one is worker safety at the curb.
Um, another one is the fact that the markets just aren't' there, which is why we're paying
for it, rather than getting paid for it like there are some of the other materials, um, and
then the other thing is that the trucks we have now have limited capacity as far as the
different compartments, and we changed...we got rid of the glass and added, I think
either mixed paper or magazines.
Bailey/ ...paper.
Jordan/ Right, and which we were getting paid for, and we collect quite a bit of that weight-wise
so it makes sense financially as well.
Hayek/ Right.
Fosse/ The thing with glass is it's...it's completely inert. It's very safe thing, if you will, to a
landfill. We can put it in a landfill and not worry about it, versus other things that leach
acids.
Dickens/ Has multiple bins been considered too, as far as... cause I use four bins right now. I
mean, I separate everything, because the one's full of newspapers, and our cardboard
always seems to be more than (mumbled) but uh...as a multiple bin option, you know,
maybe get people to...because they have so much.
Jordan/ Right now residents can purchase a second bin if they'd like, or they can get a City
sticker for recycling and put it on a Rubbermaid container at no cost. So that's certainly
an option, and that's (mumbled) to include in a potential education plan. Cause yeah, if
their bin's full, if it's either going to end up on the ground blowing around, they might
take it to a drop-off, or it's going to go in the trash.
Bailey/ And so for those that do, um, curb, or the way we do it, are we recycling similar things
curbside as other cities?
Jordan/ Yes.
Bailey/ We're (both talking) okay.
Jordan/ In fact, um, we are picking up probably more than most cities.
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Bailey/ Okay.
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Jordan/ The fact that we have plastics 1 through 7, accept Styrofoam, a lot of communities are
still doing 1 and 2, um, some aren't doing all the paper that we're doing. So I would say
that we are...we're ahead of the game there. Uh, and back to the question about glass,
and some single stream programs take it with, uh, the other materials. Cedar Rapids,
theirs...they still sort that out. They have to set out their regular bin and then a separate
bin with glass, at the curb if they set that out. So it's really different in every community.
Bailey/ So, for multi-family, you've...there was a process you called `dirty...dirty MRF' where
you sort it at the landfill. Would that be an opp...something that would be available, that
would do multi-family, that could be an approach for multi-family?
Jordan/ I would say that a `dirty MRF' is a little bit bigger picture than just multi-family. It
really is looking at how to stop or greatly, greatly reduce landfilling period.
Bailey/ And what would that...cost or entail?
Jordan/ Just starting to research it.
Bailey/ But probably a lot (mumbled)
Jordan/ Well, when you consider that the landfill cell that we're currently building is $7
million...
Bailey/ It won't cost us $7 million, right?
Jordan/ Right. But it would last forever, you know, instead of the 13 years that we get out of a
landfill cell, so...I'm just starting to research it, but I'd be happy to provide more
information when I have some more information.
Fosse/ Let me...let me sum up the basis of the staff recommendation for going, um, continuing
with the...with the curbside sorting. Uh, that being that, we're one of the few
communities in the state that's also in the landfill business, and...and we're looking,
what is the long-term for our landfill business, and we want...we want to radically reduce
what is being landfilled, and...and a likely option for that is...is the MRF. I mean, it's
full recovery facility, and...and a key to making that work is...is to having things sorted
when they come out there, and we have a community that...that does that now, and
to...to co-mingle, it's hard to go back! It's hard to go back to sorting, once we mix it. So
what staff is recommending is...is let's give the education a shot, see if we can get our
numbers up comparable with the other communities, and...and still maintain our source
separation. If we can't get to where we want to be, uh, with that source separation, then
we need to look at other options.
Dickens/ What kind of timeframe are we looking at?
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Bailey/ Yeah, can we...can we set a goal and a timeframe for those numbers, cause I'm...I
mean, because it's not just a value, which I believe is a community value. It's a cost, as
well, and I mean, so it's justifiable from my perspective that we...we try to increase these
numbers, the tonnage. And we set a timeline for doing so. And we look at some,
spending some money on education, although I don't know what that would cost.
Jordan/ I haven't really thought about the educational budget, um, but I would say a year would
be a minimum where we can start to see a difference. The seasonal differences that we
track now are pretty significant, um, strangely enough as the weather gets cooler people
recycle more. They're getting their garages cleaned out so they can get their cars in their
garages, like me, but (laughter) um, we have a...we have a monthly...we have a pretty
good monthly average over the past, almost five years. So, that's changed a little bit
as...going back to the first, one of the first slides with, I think maybe with the flood.
There was a dip there, but on a monthly basis we can see a pretty good comparison, so...
Fosse/ So could we set some goals and...and have a 18-month window? Is that reasonable?
Bailey/ 12-month (several responding) at least, because otherwise we're into 18 years again, and
you know, let future Councils discuss other things. (several talking)
Mims/ ...trying to do a 12-month, it gets us back here before we're doing the budget again, so
that...possibly if we're going to make changes we could do it incorporating it into that
next year's budget.
Wright/ The MRF is an interesting idea, especially for reducing what's going to be going into the
landfill, so...that alone is a pretty good reason to stick with what we're doing if we think
that there's a good chance that that's going to be in our future. But we've got to get the
rates up. We've got to figure out some ways to get multi-family into recycling. (several
talking) ...at the grocery store even about the lack ofmulti-family recycling.
Bailey/ And we need some talking points around that. I think that the reason we keep talking
about this is because we see other communities with other rates, and we get harangued
other places because people come from those communities that do single stream, which
seemed very easy, so why do we do it this way? Well, we need the, in the long run it
actually is better. You can do that, right?
Jordan/ Sure! (laughter) I could...I think I could have a pretty good plan in place, um, to start,
to roll it out early in the next year. So if I could propose rolling out then and then coming
back at the end of next year, early in 2012, I guess it would be, early and reporting on that
whole year's numbers, I'd...I'm really hoping we can see a significant increase.
Bailey/ I'd like to have an idea, yeah, what...what you think that could be.
Wilburn/ I've always, uh, with all environmental impact, uh, areas, I've always felt that if
everyone can do a little, then overall we're going to make more progress, and you know,
the multi, we've got a significant proportion of households served that just don't have the
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opportunity and... and so that alone will, um, you know, so L ..changing the zoning code
so that future development that...that gets us doing something that we can do and we can
do now and...and at least that aspect of it hasn't been put off another 18 years or...
Wright/ And whatever we can do to make it easier to recycle, um, you know, I...I don't think all
that many people love the idea of running all the way out to the facility on the south side
of town to get a new recycling bin or to get one because their house doesn't have one. If
we could arrange to have those dropped off when somebody requests one.
Bailey/ Request on-line and get adrop-off.
Wright/ Request on-line, cause there are houses in my neighborhood that, you know, it changes
hands every August and they just don't have a recycling bin.
Fosse/ And our bins leave town every August, filled with books (several talking and laughing)
Wright/ If we can, uh, make it easy to get (several talking) yeah. Sure!
Fosse/ So would you like us to...to move forward on the concept of revising our code for
recycling (several talking) okay. We'll get started with Planning and with Housing on
that and begin to work out the specifics there.
Higgins/ So how far off would a MRF facility be, I mean, it sounds like that's the distant, distant
future, I mean, am I right there or...cause I mean, to me that's the most appealing thing
that we've discussed (several talking)
Champion/ (mumbled) everything was on a conveyor belt.
Jordan/ Essentially, yes. I mean, instead of the trucks backing up into the landfill and dumping
into the ground, they would dump into a cement floor, um, the bigger items would be
pulled out immediately and...and recycled. You know, a lot of the materials, I'm
thinking like furniture, um, some of it's not going to be able to get recycled, but there's a
lot in our waste stream in Iowa, based on state characterization studies that the DNR does
every five or six years, there's a lot in our waste stream that's recyclable or compostable.
I won't put a number on it cause I...I don't want to skew further conversations but (both
talking)
Champion/ (mumbled) incinerate anything.
Jordan/ We do not.
Mims/ So you're saying they pick up my, they come to my house and they dump my bin in the
truck and I put garbage bags in there, it's going to go out to the landfill. It's going to be
dumped on the floor, somebody's going to open up all those garbage bags and they're
going to (several talking) by hand; machine that opens them? Okay. (several talking and
laughing)
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Dickens/ Watch the show "Dirty Jobs," they show those...machines that (both talking)
Mims/ Is most of that...um...separation then at the MRF, is that done by hand or is it much of it
mechanized or...
Jordan/ A lot of it is mechanical. I would say probably the finishing line to get the higher
quality, to get it from being good, clean recycling to really clean like we see now would
probably be hand labor.
Champion/ And...oh, what was I going to ask? Never mind. Why do we have to have plastic
bags in our trash cans. That seems odd that they never dissolve do they? Don't they last
a million years and yet we have to use, in our new trash cans, we have to use plastic
bags?
Jordan/ I think it's probably a litter issue.
Fosse/ Yeah, when...when it's dumped it just keeps it from blowing around the neighborhood.
Champion/ It just seems really weird to me.
Fosse/ Yeah. Most of my stuff goes into Hy-Vee sacks and then into the...into the different
(both talking) yeah, it is.
Bailey/ So will you tell us what the goal is?
Jordan/ I would love insight on a goal, if someone has anything (mumbled) interested in working
with it, um...I can look more closely at the last weight sort that we did at Iowa City, and
see what...
Bailey/ Yeah, I mean, that would be helpful for us to know in the education, you know, what
we're trying to get to in a year, and what we're (several talking) I think doubling it would
be...really (several talking) get us at the...
Hayek/ Why don't you give us what you think is...is...(several talking and laughing) aggressive
but reachable and reasonable goal, and we'll give you the feedback, otherwise we're just
plucking numbers out of thin air (several talking)
Bailey/ ...we're just being competitive.
Dickens/ ...other cities and steal their recycling (mumbled)
Wright/ We could at least just move up to average.
Mims/ Well, I'm just excited about the fact that really trying to get a good educational program
going and... and keeping it going, because as you said, looking at some of these others,
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it's not just about single source or some of those things. It's about education. And, you
know, and I think...I think at some point we need to look at what are our fees for the
landfill, you know, what's...what's on my utility bill every month. I could...I couldn't
tell you in terms of what I'm paying for, you know, the refuse pickup, etc. You know,
the dollar per extra bag, you mentioned Rick, that hasn't been changed in ages. You
know, do we need to look at some of those in terms of raising those somewhat as dis-
incentives to people putting stuff in the trash and trying to incentivize them to recycle.
(several talking) Exactly! Where's the balance and...
Bailey/ ...cause we don't do curbside composting, yet.
Wright/ Could we do, you know, uh, weigh and you pay? Type of system.
Bailey/ Yeah.
Fosse/ That's a big initial investment to move there, but you know, on our landfill rates, those
have been fixed for over ten years and...and when we did last change them, we lowered
them, so...
Hayek/ Okay.
Fosse/ ...really a bargain.
Jordan/ And I'd like to point out that the MRF idea came straight from the mouths of landfill
operators who've been there for 20, 30 years, so they understand the importance of not
continuing to bury our trash in giant holes in the ground, more than anyone!
Mims/ I...I don't know where the rest of you are, and I have no idea of the cost, and it sounds
like maybe you don't either, but I'd be really interested to hear what a MRF would cost.
Jordan/ I just started researching last week and it's very exciting, so I will see what I can come
up with.
Champion/ (mumbled)
Jordan/ Materials recovery facility so...(several talking)
Hayek/ Okay.
Wright/ One last question. Is this recyclable?
Jordan/ Um...if it's clean, yep, yours would be. Ross's would not, cause it has crumbs on it, but
Ross's could be composted! (laughter)
Hayek/ Okay.
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Fosse/ Thank you all.
Hayek/ Thank you.
Wright/ This was actually educational all in itself. (several talking)
Hayek/ This is an important step forward, and uh, we appreciate your work on it.
Jordan/ Thank you.
Wright/ Clean that plate off, Connie!
Hayek/ All right, let's try to get through the remaining things here quickly.
Wilburn/ I hope that was just crumbs I (mumbled) (laughter)
Information Packets & Council Time:
Hayek/ Info packets, we have two of them. First is November 18th. Anything on that?
Wright/ That was a little baby packet.
Hayek/ Hearing nothing, how...
Mims/ There was plenty there, but it was all budget and we're going to see that again...
Hayek/ Yeah, exactly! Exactly! Uh, November 24?
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Champion/ I have a question. Uh, I don't know where I read it, I mean, I don't know which one
of these papers it's in. This is way more (mumbled) um, when we do the barricade for
(several talking) no, um, you know, the water stopper.
Wright/ The flood wall?
Champion/ The flood wall (laughing and several talking) for Idyllwild, yeah!
Hayek/ If we...we have to have that conversation...
Champion/ The flood stopper! (mumbled) Is that going to drown out those houses along
Taft...isn't that what I was reading in here?
Bailey/ They will be on the river side of the levee. We've talked...yeah.
Karr/ So, Connie, you're talking about the items on the Consent Calendar? The letters you've
received?
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Champion/ Yes.
Karr/ Yeah, not the Info Packet.
Champion/ I couldn't remember where I read it.
Karr/ It's Consent Calendar I think.
Helling/ I think, yeah, what Rick was talking about earlier that...that if you take the total impact
of what we're doing, Park Road bridge and the levees and so forth that...that the actual
effect is minimal, if at all, on the river side of Taft Speedway.
Fosse/ That's one of the outcomes that we're evaluating.
Champion Okay, okay.
Fosse/ Doing everything, are they better or worse off.
Champion/ Okay.
Hayek/ But we will have that conversation, uh...so you'll have an opportunity (several talking)
Champion/ I just wanted to, cause you know, we're getting a lot of correspondence about it.
(several talking)
Davidson/ On your next agenda, because of a deadline imposed by the state, will be the grant
agreement of those levee funds, all three of them, um...and I guess, you know, my
feeling is, you know, you can still decide not to do one or more of the levees, but this
will at least keep the funds available, and I've been trying to impress that on the people
who are on one side or the other of the issues that have been contacting us this week, that
your acceptance of it doesn't necessarily mean we have to build all three levees, but that
it keeps our options open for doing so. That'll be on the 7tn
Champion/ Okay, great, thanks for that.
Davidson/ And we'll probably schedule some...we'll probably schedule it on a work session if
you want so you can discuss the issues.
Champion/ Thanks.
Mims/ On IP8, um...Jeff, this one's kind of directed for you and staff on the affordable housing,
um, my only concern with the memo that we got is...uh, I like the idea that we have more
time, but I also...I think it's really important that we all, um, kind of keep in mind...I
think the Council still has a lot of work to do, once staff gets all the information input.
We've still got to talk about what those triggers are going to be that will cause us to say,
no, this is not a suitable location and what the levels of those triggers are, I mean.. .
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Davidson/ And what we...what we hope to have, Susan, are some recommendations for you.
We assume you want some recommendations, but then yeah, ultimately you guys have to
all decide where those levels are going to be.
Mims/ My concern was just a little bit with the way the timeline seemed to be laid out here to
make sure that we still have enough time to kind of have that discussion, and it might be
more than the one meeting discussion, before we're ready to actually start using it (both
talking)
Davidson/ ...and our intention, Susan, had been to take, if necessary, both work sessions. In
terms of the special funds that...have just been, uh, recommended for a portion of it by
CDC, as well as the regular allocation, that it would give us the month of February, both
work sessions, and you can always schedule a special meeting if you want, uh, so you
could have two or three meetings to...to land on exactly what you're talking about. As
long as we can be done by March 1St, we can accommodate all the requests for housing
funds from those two rounds of allocation.
Mims/ Yeah, I just...I think we've got a lot more Council discussion to have, and that was my
only concern. The other one, and I don't know how this goes in, or if this is something
you can put in at the beginning, but when we had talked about these, um, we talked about
housing values. Remember Matt had mentioned I know I piggybacked on that too, was
also change in housing values, cause we were talking about, you know, if certain parts of
the city were stagnating in terms of housing values, but others were going up, we (both
talking)
Davidson/ Yeah, that second...that second bullet we intend to not just bring you existing values,
but also we can bring you historical data so that you can see which way it's trending.
Yeah, we...we understood that that was what you wanted.
Mims/ Just wanted to make sure.
Hayek/ Yeah, I had the same question on that bullet point, actually.
Mims/ Just wanted to clarify that.
Dilkes/ Can I just add, on your first point, Susan, too with respect to the trigger points, a lot of
the time that staff has built in for itself is to analyze what those might be, and what would
be a reasonable way to look at that, so that we can come to Council with some
recommendations on that...those as well.
Davidson/ Yeah, and hopefully set, you know, hopefully have a recommendation for you that
sets those at levels where we can actually have some projects, you know, I mean, I'm not
trying to be (several talking) you know, we really don't know where those points are
going to be.
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November 29, 2010 City Council Work Session Page 54
Mims/ Right.
Dilkes/ So that we know the facts line up with the trigger points that we're recommending.
Mims/ Appreciate that. Thank you.
Helling/ And at this point, you...on your, uh, pending list, it talks...it says February for that next
discussion. Actually, that would be January 31St is when we would anticipate, in
conjunction with the February 1St meeting.
Mims/ Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Helling/ If you finish your budget real early, we might be able to squeeze it in for you.
Hayek/ Stranger things! Uh, anything else on the November 24 Info Packet? You all have your
KXIC radio show dates logged on your computer, on your personal calendars? (several
talking) Council time?
Council Time
Wright/ We've got, uh, Wreaths Across America coming up on the l It". I've gone the last
couple of years, and I know Councilor Bailey has gone (several talking) This year for me
may be a question mark because we have, uh, JECC meeting that morning.
Bailey/ Both of us.
Hayek/ I have, uh, RSVP'd in the positive, so I will be there. It's Saturday the l lt" at like 11:00
(mumbled) cemetery. Um, so I' 11 be there. But uh.. .
Bailey/ It's a nice event.
Wright/ It is a nice event, especially (both talking) freezing.
Hayek/ It was...cold last year! (laughter)
Bailey/ It was very, very cold!
Wilburn /It was cold two years ago!
Hayek/ Yeah. (several talking)
Wright/ It is a nice event, and I just wanted to make sure there was going to be somebody there.
Mims/ I' 11 check my calendar as well.
Hayek/ It's a very nice event, and you get some great folks show up.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 29, 2010.
November 29, 2010 City Council Work Session Page 55
Bailey/ And it's good to have...
Hayek/ Okay.
Dickens/ Celebrate the seasons, this Saturday in downtown Iowa City, 7:00 (mumbled) horse-
drawn carriage, lot of other fun stuff for young adults and kids and families.
Hayek/ Couldn't find a team of reindeer?
Dickens/ No, just got a Clydesdale!
Bailey/ (several talking)
Bud;;et:
Hayek/ Any other Council time? Budget? Got our memo and we're (mumbled) the abyss.
(laughter) Uh, upcoming pending work session issues?
Upcomin;? Pending Work Session Issues:
Helling/ Your, uh, fairly loaded up, especially if we have to have the, what Jeff was talking about
to the December 6t" thing...I think most of the things on there will take a fairly short
amount of time, so, but that will be the last meeting before the end of the year, depending
on...if anything else gets added. May want to give some thought to, uh, after...into the
first of the year kind of, you know, what are the things on there that are higher priorities,
uh, there aren't too many left, so I think we can maybe...I'll try to attach some dates, or
some perspective dates anyway, and then you can go from there, see if I've got it correct
or if maybe some things need to be switched around.
Dilkes/ Staff had a question about the Sanctuary City item, um, I think there...we talked about it
being in January that I would have a legal opinion to you, by January, and I can do that,
but in terms of when you want to schedule your discussion, I know we have some
Council Members absent in January, and I didn't know if you wanted everyone to be here
for, when we schedule that discussion. So we may move that into February (several
talking) or January 31St
Champion/ We have a Valentine baby due too!
Dilkes/ So we'll schedule that at a time when you're all here. (several talking)
Hayek/ We' 11 try to have it on Monday the... February 21St. (several talking) Easier for you
guys? Okay, great! (several talking and laughing) Um...upcoming events, we've got
the Shelter House...
Upcoming Events:
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 29, 2010.
November 29, 2010 City Council Work Session Page 56
Champion/ Right, Shelter House ribbon cutting Thursday. 9:30.
Hayek/ Anything else? You mentioned Wreaths Across America. Okay. (mumbled) meeting
schedules rather.
Champion/ And I will be at the ribbon cutting, so we will have representation there, I mean,
you're all welcome to come! We'd love to have all of you there, but I will definitely be
there.
Mims/ I can't be there. I've got, um, REO Workforce Development Committee.
Bailey/ I'm out of town, but I was going to send a note to Chrissie.
Wright/ I will be at the (mumbled)
Hayek/ Anything else? Meeting schedule?
Mims/ Plenty of `em!
Bailey/ Going to see a lot of each other in January!
Hayek/ Okay. Well, unless there's anything else for the good of the order (mumbled) and we
will see everyone tomorrow evening.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 29, 2010.