HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-12-06 TranscriptionDecember 6, 2010 City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present:
Staff Present:
Others Present:
Bailey, Champion, Dickens, Hayek, Mims, Wilburn (arrived at 6:35 PM),
Wright
Markus, Helling, Dilkes, Karr, Davidson, Fosse, Johansen, Moran, Purdy,
Knocke
Higgins, UISG
Council Appointments:
Hayek/ Why don't we get started with the work session. First item is Council appointments.
We've got a few to make here. I think the first one, uh, in the order in which they appear
is, uh, Airport Commission. We've got a, uh, gender balance requirement on that. Um,
does anyone know if this individual would have any interest in the, uh, Airport Zoning
Board?
Champion/ Well, he's been on the Airport Commission on and off, uh, I think that's what he
really wants to (both talking)
Mims/ Yeah, I think so too.
Hayek/ Okay.
Bailey/ Well, and I thought...we had looked at him before, so we haven't passed our time?
Champion/ No, it's the 20tH
Bailey/ Okay.
Hayek/ Marian, do...I know it's kind of catching you as you walk, on Airport Commission, do
you know how... are we at the start of the 90 days or (noise on mic) through that?
Champion/ It is 12/20.
Karr/ 12/20 (mumbled)
Dickens/ Yeah, it was September '7tH. (mumbled)
Hayek/ Oh, yeah...
Dilkes/ It's 12/20. It's right there at the (several talking; noise on mic)
Karr/ There are some you can appoint. That's not one of them.
Hayek/ Okay. Well, we'll just hang on with him.
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Champion/ (sneezing) Excuse me! I'm allergic to this place! (several talking)
Hayek/ Uh, then we get to Parks and Rec. (noise on mic)
Wright/ I could certainly speak to, uh, Lucie Laurian, and I think she'd be a terrific addition...
Bailey/ Oh, me too!
Champion/ Oh, yeah, I agree!
Wright/ Very sharp individual!
Bailey/ I was really glad to see that she was willing to do it.
Champion/ (mumbled) I'm stuck here...lost.
Hayek/ Consensus for her?
Champion/ Yeah, and then Dave is on his first...um...first three-year term, and we...usually
allow a second (several talking)
Hayek/ Typically (several talking) Okay. I thought all the applicants looked really good.
(several responding) All right, so David Bourgeois and that is Bourgeois actually. And
uh, Lucie Laurian. Got it? Uh, then we've got, uh, Public Art, two vacancies, and two
applicants.
Bailey/ Two good applicants! (several talking)
Hayek/ Both of `em?
Bailey/ Glad Jan is willing to continue to serve.
Hayek/ Yeah, she (mumbled) (several talking) And then we get to the Youth Commission,
um... Sam Fosse, uh...
Bailey/ Doesn't Ross (mumbled)
Wright/ That name just...
Hayek/ Yeah, she doesn't come from a good family (laughter) but we might overlook that.
Dickens/ You let my nephew on it (laughter)
Hayek/ Let you on it! (laughter) So is there a consensus for (several talking)
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Wright/ We have two terrific ones (mumbled)
Hayek/ Except that we could do one at-large and one from (several talking)
Bailey/ Yep!
Mims/ So why don't we do Leah from West and Caroline for at-large. That work?
Champion/ Sure!
Wright/ Sure.
Hayek/ Good! Everybody in agreement?
Champion/ Yep.
(Wilburn arrived)
Wilburn/ Yes.
Hayek/ Okay. Agenda items.
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Karr/ Ross, did you have any recommendations, um, since the bylaws for the Youth Advisory
Commission, before appointments are made has the City Council liaison recommending.
(laughter and several talking) We just passed that item (several talking)
Hayek/ Ross, we, uh (several talking)
Wilburn/ Second, second! (laughter)
Hayek/ Good!
Wilburn/ I had a chance to speak to two of the three. One of them, Mr. Fosse (mumbled) but the
other two, um...and I will catch up with them tomorrow, but uh, the other two, um,
sounds like they have some interesting ideas in trying to...how to plug some of their
peers in to, uh, input, um, one's with the newspaper staff; the other's with the student
senate.
Hayek/ We put one as the West High rep and the other's at-large.
Wilburn/ Yep! Yeah, I discussed that with them too so they...they knew that...they were
prepared for that!
Hayek/ Sounds good! Uh, agenda items?
Agenda Items:
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ITEM 4. CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS
PRESENTED OR AMENDED.
c) Public Hearing.
1. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING
FOR JANUARY 10, 2011, ON A PROPOSAL TO CONVEY A
SINGLE FAMILY HOME LOCATED AT 416 DOUGLASS COURT.
Wright/ Um this is just a very minimal question, but on...in the Consent Calendar, 4.c.1. The
sale of the house on Douglass Court. Uh...I just wondered what those carrying costs
were. I actually called today (mumbled) Does anybody know?
Dilkes/ Well the...
Hayek/ This is the UniverCity program.
Dilkes/ It would be the interest on our loan, um...
Wright/ I meant the...the figure, I'm sorry.
Dilkes/ Oh, the...you want the actual figure!
Wright/ Yeah, I'm just curious.
Dilkes/ I don't have that (both talking) we certainly could get it for you.
Wright/ ...I just meant to call and get it today, and I forgot, so...
ITEM 13. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER
TO ACCEPT A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT FOR
THE CONSTRU(:TION OF A LEVEE ON TAFT SPEEDWAY AND NO
NAME ROAD AND TO SIGN THE GRANT AGREEMENT.
Mims/ I don't know if other people have...I have a number of questions on number 13. The Taft
Speedway levee. (several responding) All right, okay.
Hayek/ Yeah, we're going to spend some time on that.
Mims/ Other than that now I'm good then.
ITEM 7. DETERMINING THE TOWNCREST URBAN RENEWAL AREA OF THE
CITY TO HAVE CONDITIONS OF SLUM AND BLIGHT AND TO BE AN
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREA, AND THAT THE
REHABILITATION, CONSERVATION, REDEVELOPMENT,
DEVELOPMENT, OR A COMBINATION THEREOF, OF SUCH AREA IS
NECESSARY IN THE INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY
OR WELFARE OF THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY; DESIGNATING
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SUCH AREA AS APPROPRIATE FOR AN URBAN RENEWAL
PROJECT; AND ADOPTING THE TOWNCREST URBAN RENEWAL
PLAN THEREFORE.
Bailey/ I have a question on 7, just because...you know, I know Economic Development
Committee has done this, but I...I just want to know, once we get this area designated
how quickly can we see businesses coming in, I mean, I think that there's a lot of
excitement. We're...entering spring so people want to get things done.
Davidson/ Um, well, this is certainly the next step, uh, this has been a little bit all over the place.
You passed the resolution of necessity some time ago. We held off on the urban renewal
plan then because Planning, and Zoning hadn't had it. It's now out of Planning and
Zoning; they recommend approval. We're also going to have the design review overlay
district on...because of a statutory requirement, we couldn't bring that to you now as
well, but that's an important facet of this, uh, also that I wanted to make sure you were
apprised of. There's kind of a carrot and stick thing at work here. Um, we decided to
bring the urban renewal plan to you now and not wait for the urban renew, uh, excuse me,
the design review overlay district, which will be on January 10, because we wanted to get
the financial incentive programs, uh, rolled out, and these are the ones that at least the
Economic Development Committee have been...I guess we talked about them a little
when we did the economic development, um, review, and there's...there'sthree or four,
four of them then, plus TIF' which of course is the big one that...that the urban renewal
plan will allow as well, anti we've got `em...a little marketing thing to roll out and then
have it on the web site and...and of course we've been talking with individual property
owners about what's available as well, and so um...this all enables that to happen, um,
the design review overlay zone then is basically to ensure that this design vision for it,
and I think there might even be some...yeah, this is the, if you haven't had a chance go
online and look at the design plan manual here. Uh, this is...and I'm...I'm really proud
of this document because I think that without exception in the time that I've been here,
uh, we haven't had a more organic or internally developed plan from a neighborhood, I
mean, there has been a lot of participation, almost unanimous, uh, recognition that
something needs to be done in Towncrest, uh, and that we need to adopt a new vision
basically and then this is the vision that everybody agreed on. This is...this was not in
any way a City implemented, top-down kind of plan, and I'm really proud of it for that
reason. Um... and so that'll come to you on January 10, and basically be the stick part of
the carrot and stick approach. If somebody wants to take advantage of our financial
incentives, and we think some of them are really great programs, then they will be
required to go through design review and make sure that their architectural statement is
consistent, uh, with this plan, so...and then of course this is...this is kind of the years
down the road when people...the economy recovers and we have the opportunity to build
some larger buildings, uh, this is the more higher density type vision. In the meantime,
though, the facade improvements, which are like what you see here. These are existing
buildings in Towncrest that have had facade improvements done. That's the kind of
thing we anticipate, uh, initially. In fact, we've got a couple projects already that have
applied for CDBG funds.
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Bailey/ So we're rolling that marketing plan out after (noise on mic) design review overlay zone
(both talking)
Davidson/ Right, you'll have...you'll have (both talking)
Bailey/ ...first of the year?
Davidson/ No. We're rolling the...we're rolling the financial assistance programs out on
Thursday, if you approve the urban renewal plan on Tuesday (both talking)
Bailey/ That's kind of what I wanted to know (both talking)
Davidson/ ...there'll be something in the Info Packet. Yeah, exactly! We want people to come
in and start talking to us and developing projects and then by the time we have something
actually designed and ready for, uh, review, uh, if there's a majority of you that, of
course, want to implement the design review overlay, then we'll...we'll have that in
place January 10.
Bailey/ Good! That's...that's kind of...cause we've been (both talking)
Davidson/ Any other questions about the urban renewal (both talking)
Bailey/ ...well, I bet people are eager to see opportunity and what's out there...for them, and I'm
hoping.. .
Hayek/ What else? We do have the, um, on 17 and 18 the more complete agreements (mumbled)
passed out this afternoon on the artwork.
Bailey/ That's exciting too! To see that get going.
Hayek/ Okay. Any other agenda items? Okay. Pick up the levees.
CDBG Levee Grants (A~enda Items 11,12,13):
ITEM 11. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER
TO ACCEPT A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT FOR
THE CONSTRUCTION OF A LEVEE ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE
IOWA RIVER BETWEEN MCCOLLISTER BOULEVARD AND THE
CRANDIC RAILROAD AND TO SIGN THE GRANT AGREEMENT.
ITEM 12. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER
TO ACCEPT A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT FOR
THE CONSTRUCTION OF A LEVEE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE
IOWA RIVER BETWEEN THE CRANDIC RAILROAD AND HIGHWAY
6 AND TO SIGN THE GRANT AGREEMENT.
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ITEM 13. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER
TO ACCEPT A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT FOR
THE CONSTRUCTION OF A LEVEE ON TAFT SPEEDWAY AND NO
NAME ROAD AND TO SIGN THE GRANT AGREEMENT.
Davidson/ Good evening, Mr. Mayor and Members of Council. Uh, for those in the audience,
uh, I'm Jeff Davidson, the Director of Planning and Community Development for the
City, and with me is Flood Recovery Specialist, uh, David Purdy, and uh, items...let's
see, is it 13, 14, 15?
Bailey/ 11, 12, 13.
Davidson/ 12, 13, and 14, excuse me. On your agenda tomorrow evening are, uh, three levee
projects that, uh, we have for your consideration and...and a determination of whether or
not, uh, it is still our desire to go ahead with these. Um...what we want to do this
evening, uh, there...there was, uh, some good correspondence in your, uh, actually has
been for the last, uh, couple of meeting packets that you've had, about people on... on
either side of, in particular the Taft Speedway, No Name levee, uh, No Name levee, uh,
as well as the other two, and what we want to do is try and present some information this
evening, uh, that will hopefully dispel some of the questions but certainly not all of the
questions, uh, of...of that correspondence, and...and try and leave you with as clear a
vision as possible of what the task is before you, uh, tomorrow evening. Um, we have,
uh, just over $15 million that has been made available to us for three levees, the eastside
levee, the Westside levee, and the Taft Speedway levee, and I apologize, I didn't have
Bob load the, uh...uh, the diagrams that are included in your meeting packet, uh, your
meeting packet, but in spite of the one being upside down, um, I think you can...you can
get a pretty good idea from those exactly, uh, what is proposed in terms of where these
levees will be located. Um...we are under no obligation to accept this money, uh, it is if
it is still a will of a majority of the City Council as to whether or not you're still
interested in these projects.. Uh, because they are three distinct projects, we have
separated them into three distinct...distinct decisions for you. Uh, you can implement
two of them but not a third one, or... or one but not the other two. Or none of them. Or
all of them. Uh, and... and we will, uh, try and answer as... answer as many of your
questions as we can about...about that funding and what we can and cannot do. Um...I
think it's good for us just to take a quick look back, how...how did we get to this point.
Um, you'll recall that our....after the flood of 08 in the summer of 08, uh, our initial
efforts were almost 100% towards, uh, dealing with the flood, uh, and our Emergency
Response people and our Public Works people were focused on that. Once we had that
under control and the reservoir was no longer...the reservoir was once more under
control by the dam, we then focused on recovery, and we had two sessions, uh, where
Rick Fosse and I led you through a discussion of what the possibilities were, uh, that we
could do. And I think very much to your credit, uh, you decided at that time to focus on
buyouts of property that were in the flood plain, in harm's way, uh, to basically eliminate
with 100% certainty, uh, the possibility that we would deal with flood emergencies in
those areas again, and I think you get, uh, a lot of credit for that, because that...as you've
heard us say, that...those are the only strategies that with 100% certainty eliminate
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the...the flood hazard in the future. Uh, you also then focused on both some very large,
larger than certainly we'd ever dealt with, uh, public infrastructure projects, and those are
the focus of our attention right now, uh, north Dubuque Street and Park Road bridge, as
well as the relocation of the north waste water treatment plant and about $100 million
between those two projects., Uh, we're focused on those, and some smaller projects,
some, um, pump and uh, things...things that deal with the floods, for example, in the
Rocky Shore Drive area and...and some smaller scale type things. Um, we were then left
with some areas, three specifically, uh, for which we really didn't have a good strategy at
the time, and the people in these areas, and again, this was in the early fall, uh, late
summer, uh, early fall of 2008, uh, they were very much concerned about what we were
going to do for their, uh, for their areas. Uh, and this included certainly the Baculis and
Thatcher Mobile Home Parks, the commercial court area, and the Idyllwild
Condominium's area and...and people were quite outspoken at the time, and so we
consulted with Stanley Consultants who were our engineering consultant, that were
helping us develop strategies for these areas, and determine that in those areas some type
of strategy of levees or flood walls were...basically the way to deal with it, uh, in those
areas, and we expressed to you at that time, and you adopted as the City's policy, that we
would attempt to find funds, uh, for those projects. Then...and you did establish that
they were not the high priority projects for the City, that the buyouts were the higher
priority and the public infrastructure projects were the higher priority, but after funds
were available for those, if funds became available for the levees or flood walls that we
would attempt to protect those, and at that time, the Parkview Terrace neighborhood was
also included in that because we were just under the impression at that time that we were
only going to get the FEMA, or HMGP buyout funds. We subsequently got a bit of a
windfall in having CDBG funds made available to us for everything within the, what at
that time was identified as the 500-year flood plain, and so our buyout strategy became
substantially larger than it would have been under just the...the FEMA program,
and...and basically for the entire Parkview Terrace neighborhood the strategy became
buyouts and because of that, no longer consider flood walls or levees in the Parkview
Terrace, uh, neighborhood. Um, our initial application for funds then, which again you
approved, uh, us applying for those funds was turned down. Simply wasn't a high
enough priority for the State. We had some smaller projects funded from that, but
recently, uh, the State did open up, uh, another, uh, another allocation of funding, and we
were granted the $15...what is it, $15.7 million for these three projects that are on your,
um, agenda tomorrow, uh, tomorrow evening. Um, there are, before we just quickly walk
through the projects, there are a number of very good points, very reasonable, very
logical points, that have been raised in the correspondence you've received by members
of the public, regarding any project that would attempt to construct a levee. Uh, and they
are proj...they are questiolis that either have been answered in the case of the west side
levee, or will be answered if you decide you... decide to go ahead with the eastside and
the Taft/No Name levees, uh, when you design those projects and when you design any
levee project. Uh, and they are very good points that need to be answered. For the
Westside levee, because o:Fthe low-mod income level with the Baculis and Thatcher
Mobile Home Parks, we v~~ere able to get Community Disaster Funds to basically design
that project. Um, I...my understanding is that the final design has to be re...revised
slightly, but we basically know what we're going to build, and we're pretty confident
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about that cost estimate. We have not had the luxury of going through that exercise with
the, um, eastside and Taft/No Name levees, and that is...certainly a source of frustration,
because there are a number of questions that we wish we could answer for members of
the public, but we have not been able to answer, but...we do feel that they are questions
that can be answered, that the projects can be engineered to answer those questions, and
basically allow a levee system in these areas to work, uh, as they're supposed to work and
protect the property that is behind them. Um, certainly the, on the Taft/No Name levee,
the issue of the homes that would be between the levee and the river, uh, is something we
knew, that if we got to this point we would have to deal with. Um, Rick was able to give
us a couple of pieces of information, and we can have him come up and elaborate on
them if you'd like, that we did learn, uh, this afternoon. Well, maybe one that we also
want to point out that David learned earlier in the week is that the State will require us to
design the three projects to meet the 100-year flood, plus three feet. That is the minimum
that we can design to. The cost estimates that you...you've seen that are on the three
projects right now are for the 500-year flood, plus three feet. So...if a decision is made,
and you will ultimately make that decision, and...and again, a question that's always
asked whenever you design a levee is how tall are we going to make it? That is a
question you have to answer every time you design a levee, and we will in this instance...
instance as well. Um, I know some of you have wondered about the cost estimates.
They've been inflated as we've tried to refine them, uh, in talking to our engineering
consultants as we've found out more about what it might take, uh, to do them. They have
inflated and expense some, uh, and...and well, let's...let's walk through them real quick
and then we can...we can talk about them a little bit. Eastside levee, uh, will...will
protect the Gilbert Street, uh, commercial area south of Highway 6, as well as south
Gilbert Street, and that's a significant, uh, you know, public infrastructure, uh, deal for us
in terms of south Gilbert Street. That's a...a major arterial in the City's arterial streets
system, which we would prefer to keep open, uh, there are a lot of Public Works'
functions further down, uh., that we want to make sure not cut off from the remainder of
the city. Uh, the cost estimate for that, and remember, this is one of the ones that's very,
very rough, $4 million, uh, with the CDBG funds paying $3 point, uh, $3.9 million, the...
the funds from the State. iJh, again, this is designed to the 500-year plus three so if a
decision was made to reduce that down to, but...but again, not to exceed 100-plus-three,
uh, likely the...the expense would come down in that. Uh, Westside levee is to protect
Baculis and Thatcher, as well as commercial court, approximately 190 homes, 450
people, a number of us have said that, uh, this would have been a major, major issue if
the temporary levee had not held in 08. Fortunately it did, and we didn't have a disaster
on the order of, magnitude of basically the city of Hills, the equivalent population of the
city of Hills, being under water. So, uh, it's fortunate that we didn't have to deal with
that, uh, the...the cost estimate, which we feel pretty good about, is $4.2 million with
CDBG paying everything except $400,000. Um, and by the way, the...we...we did
receive essentially, David, correct me if I'm wrong, the final money from the State. Uh,
was the $15.7 and so the State's emphasized to us that anything exceeding that $15.7 will
be our responsibility. Uh, and... and David, you've checked even as recently today, we
don't believe there's any more money coming...
Purdy/ No, there won't be any mare money (mumbled) in the State.
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Davidson/ Okay. Uh, the final one then is the Taft Speedway, uh, No Name Road levee. Um,
and we've...we've uh, you know, given you some figures there, I mean, this will be a
bigger deal to design, and to build, uh, than the other two levees. Uh, obviously it would
have a road on top of it, uh, which means it would be wider at the top, uh, than the others.
Uh, it has to obviously fit in a very confined space, uh, between the two housing
developments. Uh, and it has to tie in with the Dubuque Street elevation project, and so
all of that's going to require a lot of very careful engineering. It is as you can see as well,
uh, a substantially more expensive project, uh, the $11.7 million though, again, to repeat
is the 500-year plus, uh, three feet level, and you know, it's definitely worth pointing out
that a design to the 100-year plus three feet level would not have kept the flood of 08 out
of Idyllwild. Um, so clearly that's something that's going to require a lot of thought. It
is an opportunity to reduce the cost estimate, and that's one of the pieces of information
that Rick had, uh, from earlier today, that, uh, the...the estimate now, and it's a rough
estimate, but if we were to design to the 100-year plus three feet level, was $8.9 million,
is that right, Rick? $8.9 million so that would be a reduction from the $11.76 million to
design to the 100-plus-three, uh, level. Um...let's see...um, also one of you had a
question so I thought I'd provide the information to everybody, the nine homes that did
not accept buyout offers on the riverside of Taft Speedway still have the ability to
entertain buyouts. Uh, David, that program, the CDBG program, not the FEMA program
any longer, but the CDBG program would be eligible until when?
Purdy/ Uh, well, they haven't set any deadline, but probably within the next year or so.
Davidson/ Okay, so approximately for the next year, uh, those nine individuals will have the
opportunity to consider a buyout, if they wish. Of course the policy on that is that it is
strictly a voluntary program and the City as part of your policy made a decision, uh, that
we would not do condemnations as part of the buyout, even though it remains along-
range strategy to eventually get all the homes in the, uh, 500-year flood plain.
Um...the...we, we also have funds available to us from the project that's in your
approved adopted CIP for FY11, uh, to elevate a portion of Foster Road that would keep
the remainder of the Peninsula, remember the Peninsula had to be evacuated because the,
all the access was under water. We had a project, $3 million funded totally locally with
GO bonds that will become a redundant project, uh, if you do the Taft Speedway/No
Name Road levee, uh, so that does provide $3 million of local funds that are...that's in
your approved budget that you would have available, uh, to use for the local match on
the, uh, Taft/No Name Road, uh, levee. Um, finally then the grant guidelines, we've
indicated to you that you will be required to meet the, uh, goal of three, uh, three feet
above the 100-year flood plain. Um...David, is there any other information in terms of
design guidelines or requirements of the grant funds that we've received from the State?
Purdy/ The, uh, the only thing that I received today was, there's been several questions from the
public about whether we can use temporary or Hesco barriers, um...because it's CDBG
money, they do require permanent...a permanent structure there. So, um...it's not like
we could use the $8 million to build a set of Hesco barriers there.
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Davidson/ And if you have more questions about the Hesco barriers, those should appropriately
be directed to Rick and Ron, obviously the Public Works Department would be heavily
involved in the implementation, uh, the set up and take down of those or, I presume
would at least, and so...and so if you have questions either tonight or, uh, tomorrow
night, we can get Rick and Ron to answer those in terms of the impact to the city of that.
Uh, the one other thing that. we wanted to, um, before we conclude that we, uh, wanted
to...we've had a lot of questions and...and again, these are part of very legitimate
questions of well, what is going to be the impact on flood levels of building, in particular
the Taft/No Name levee, but all the levees, and I think, you know, logically you have to
expand that to all the flood mitigation strategies, all up and down the river that are being
implemented by Iowa City, Coralville, and the University. It really does no good to look
at them in isolation. It is the aggregate effect of everything, and Rick did have, and
again, if you have more specific questions we'll get Rick up here, but Rick did find out
from the team that is doing that modeling that their initial views show that because of the
benefit of some of the strategies, in particular the buyout program which is creating new
capacity within the flood hazard area, as...and in particular, getting the Park Road bridge
up out of the river, that the aggregate effect in the Taft Speedway area is 3 to 4 inches
lower, even building the levee. And again, that's the aggregate effect of everything, not
the levee in isolation. And, we will continue to refine those numbers. The modelers are
continuing to refine them a.nd put inputs in when, uh, and...and basically make that as
accurate as possible, but that is at least with the initial runs of the modelers showing, uh,
in terms of the aggregate effect of everything. So, again, that's just a piece of
information. We're not using that to advocate one position or another, but that's a piece
of information for you to have. So, to conclude then, what's before you tomorrow
evening is a decision as to whether or not you want to accept the grant funds for the three
levees. If you do, then we will notify the State, and they will prepare grant agreements,
and in your resolutions basically authorize the City Manager to sign the grant agreements,
and those would likely, uh, be available in what, three to four weeks?
Purdy/ Yeah, probably.
Davidson/ So, you know, the...I think the question before you, and we've talked about this a lot
at staff, is do you intend to build these levees or not. Um, and with the information
we've provided you, which is as good as we have right now, are you able to make that
decision, and I guess certainly for the purposes of our discussion this...this evening, if
you have any specific questions, let's try and answer them.
Hayek/ Rick, do you want to weigh in... add some flavor to this good presentation?
Fosse/ I believe what Jeff has shared with you is... is very accurate. Uh, and we spent a good
deal of time visiting about that at...at, amongst staff. Um, I will share with you some
preliminary information in the modeling downstream, the impacts of the eastside and the
Westside levee. Uh, just upstream of the Westside levee, which is the southernmost one,
uh, we're looking at an impact of about, uh, three-quarters of an inch during a 100-year
event, and about two and three-quarters inches during a 500-year event. That's additional
height in a flood profile, and then just upstream of the eastside levee, which'd be just
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upstream of Highway 6, um, the effects are very similar there, uh, about three-quarters of
an inch during the 100-year, and... and roughly two and three-quarters of an inch during
the...the 500-year event.
Mims/ So when you were talking...Jeff, when you were talking about 3 to 4 inches lower in the,
um, in the Taft Speedway area, Rick, do you have an idea of what the effect would be in
the Parkview area? Cause t:hat's certainly one of the issues that's come up in some of the
letters, what...what's it going to do to Mosquito Flats, I mean, I realize we've got a lot of
houses gone there, but...
Fosse/ Uh-huh. The aggregate effect, uh, is about 3.6 inches during the 100-year event, lower;
it's a positive effect, and about 6.1 inches during the 500-year. Again, these are
preliminary numbers.
Mims/ Yeah.
Fosse/ But they're the best we have to work with right now.
Mims/ And so those are both lower?
Fosse/ That's correct. The Park Road bridge is...is really a big project for the corridor, and it
is...it is the only flood mitigation project in the corridor that actually has a positive effect,
and the buyouts, yes. (several talking and laughing)
Hayek/ So 3.6 and 6.1 inch figures were without the levee? That's just the impact of...
Fosse/ That's...that's with the levee.
Hayek/ With the levee.
Dickens/ But raising the bridge.
Fosse/ And the bridge.
Bailey/ It's the aggregate effect (several talking) So, another...go ahead if you have...I know
you said you had a lot.
Mims/ No, that's fine. Yeah, I'm just kind of...I just kind of went through all the letters and I'm
like, okay, you know, I don't know the answers to these. They raise some legitimate
questions.. .
Bailey/ So you probably (both talking)
Mims/ You know, one of them was, and this comes back to Taft because to me that's the biggest
issue is that one. Um, when we talk about the 100-year plus three feet, or 500-plus-three
feet, how much higher is ghat than the road now?
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Fosse/ The, uh, the 100-year plus three feet would be in the neighborhood of...of 4 to 6 feet
higher than the road. At its highest point.
Mims/ Okay.
Fosse/ Uh, the 500-year plus three feet would be in the neighborhood of 8 to 10 feet higher than
the existing road.
Mims/ Do you know anything about the, uh, assertion by one letter writer that in doing this their,
uh, flood insurance premiwns would go up significantly?
Fosse/ I read that, and...and if I understood the letter correctly, they're making the assumption
that the base flood elevation, that is the...the predicted 100-year flood level would go up,
and if that goes up relative to their first floor elevation, then their insurance rates may go
up. What we're finding from the modeling is that actually goes down, so, the opposite
effect occurs here.
Mims/ Okay. So they're basing that on an assumption that is not consistent with what the model
is telling us.
Fosse/ That's right.
Mims/ Okay. Okay. Um...what about the comment that some of the flooding in and around the
Idyllwild area really is ground water and the whole issue of drainage from the ponds out
to the river and backflow, uh, valves or whatever on that? Can you address that as well?
Fosse/ Sure. Uh, that's a part of a~ly levee design is...is looking at the permeability of the soils
beneath the levee, and I...I believe that the soils out there are quite permeable, uh, just
based on our experience in the area. Uh, both the estimates for the levees include a...a
cut-off wall that extends about 10 to 15 feet into the ground. It's a...it's a trench that
helps cut that off and prevent that water from going through the soils and then coming up
on the backside.
Mims/ And then would a backflow valve be put on...whatever drainage system there is from the
ponds out to the river?
Fosse/ Yes. Yes. And... and most likely the 80-some acres upstream from Idyllwild that drains
through the pond, uh, would be re-routed along No Name Road, directly out to the river,
as part of the design of this so that you're...you're not worried about accommodating
those flows through the subdivision during a flood event, because once that backflow
prevention valve is...is shut, you need to pump all the local rain out of there, and that is
one of the downsides of levees, and... and a lot of things that you read about in these
letters, they are all accurate in the sense that levees do have their downsides. You know,
some day they'll all be overtopped, you know, how soon depends on how high you build
it, um, you have interior drainage that you need to attend to, um...they have maintenance
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expenses, and that's why that...the levees were not included in our first line of...of flood
mitigation, which was the buyouts.
Mims/ I understand that, you know, not much design really has been done on this one, you know,
for Taft, but looking at that, you know, and from your engineering background,
what...one of the concerns that some people have expressed, and I've heard this from
other areas too, typically you don't design a levee that you can drive on top o£ And what
additional problems does that raise for us, not only in the initial cost, but also potentially
in terms of maintenance down the road?
Fosse/ Well, I don't see that as an obstacle to maintenance. One of the things that you worry
about with levees is trees growing up in `em and...and critters burrowing holes in them,
uh, when it's a roadway, you don't have that opportunity for those things to go on there.
I think one of the design challenges, uh, for us will be accommodating the driveways
down off of that.
Wright/ (mumbled) asking about the driveways. It's such a narrow space.
Fosse/ It is. It is. And, uh, the footprint of the levee, uh, would be roughly at its broadest point,
which is its highest point, about 125 to 130 feet, ballpark.
Mims/ Wide, is that what you said?
Fosse/ Yes. Yes. That's if...if conventional construction techniques are used.
Mims/ If we decided not to do a levee...what do you see as, and I don't know if staff has looked
at this in much detail, what: do you see as the viability of something like Hesco barriers?
Fosse/ One of the things that we've been doing with the...the Idyllwild neighborhood is working
with them, in fact we...we gave them a grant, uh, to work with an insuring firm to help
develop their own flood emergency response plan. So in the next big one, what are they
going to do and what steps are they going to take, uh, and they looked at...at the various
options for sandbagging around their entire subdivision, or taking it on, per building or
clustering the buildings. And what they found is, they're able to reasonably sandbag for
some of the smaller events, but once they get larger, it just...the logistics of it all, is
beyond what...what anybc-dy can do, and that's really what we experienced in 2008. It
reaches a point at which you just can't get enough workers in there doing those things.
Uh, the other thing is...is the interior drainage issue that...that we talked about earlier,
uh, without that cutoff wall, if you're successful with sandbags or Hesco barriers, you
need to be prepared to pump that ground water that comes up through the soils. And how
much will come through there, I don't know yet.
Mims/ How...I mean, I can understand where volunteers become, you know, a real issue in
terms of, you've got a pretty big area there to try to sandbag, but when you're talking
about Hesco barriers, you're really talking more about truckloads, I mean, yeah, you've
got to have people to set t11em up, but my understanding is then you're talking about
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truckloads of sand, rock, whatever, coming in and filling those things, which...is going to
be a little bit different, and I don't know how much...if there's any numbers out there
that give any kind of cost for communities who tend to use those in terms of putting up,
you know, 500 feet, 5,000 feet of `em, you know, whatever.
Fosse/ Yes. There are some estimates out there. Those estimates vary depending on, um,
the...the preexisting conditions. For instance, University is...is working on a system
where the...their sidewalks along the river are designed to go up with Hesco barriers.
Um, without such a system around the units, uh, that...that might be difficult to install
those, and...and certainly the cost of deployment goes up because of all the heavy
equipment in there and...and uh, it's...it's really going to do a number on...on all the
yards and everything. So, whether the flood gets that high or not, you...you've still got a
significant recovery expense, just for taking things back apart again.
Wright/ Roughly how long would it take to put up Hesco barriers, uh, in the, uh... stretch along
Taft and No Name? Take a wild guess!
Fosse/ (laughter) That's a dangerous guess to take! And part of the answer to that is...is how
prepared are you? Are you staged with the Hesco's out there, in the building, waiting for
deployment, or are they, urn, someplace else. The Hesco Companies, they'll keep them
in a warehouse for you, in another town, and... and drive them in, for a price. You pay an
amount every year to have those available to you, um, so there's all sorts of options there.
Champion/ I have a hard time envisioning this barrier. I...I'm...I don't have any problems with
the east and the Westside. The one on Taft Speedway...what is...it's just going to be a
big wall, a big monolith, whatever it's called, when you're driving down Dubuque Street?
I mean, I just can't envision this! It's...
Davidson/ Have you ever been to Guttenberg, or to Galena? I mean, they have levees in these
communities and for example, you know, I go up to Guttenberg all the time and, um,
there's...there's alevee on., it's like amile-long linear park that's a...that's a levee, and
when you're on the street, that...that used to be right on the river, um, when you're in the
first floor, you know, you can't really see the river... from a first floor, but from a second
floor, uh, of those dwellings you can...you can see the river. Um, and it's, you know, it's
incorporated into a park and it looks...it looks very natural. The one in Galena is to me a
lot less natural. It looks like a big, giant green mound and it's got flood...flood gates on
either end of it, but you know, again, Connie, we...we really can't conceptualize what
this is going to be. You know, Rick told you the difference in the heights between 100-
plus-three and five hundred-plus-three, I mean, that's a big visual difference between 4
and 5 feet, and 8 and 10 feet.
Champion/ Yeah, I just can't imagine it! I can't picture it.
Hayek/ You said 130 feet wide. Isn't a basic road about, I don't know, 50 or 60 feet wide?
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Fosse/ At the right-of--way out there now is 60-feet wide, so you would have the road section,
and then sidewalks on one or both sides, uh, the road may not have curb and gutter
because there's very little drainage to be accommodated by it, so it might be a rural
section, uh, in that there's no curb and gutter. There'd be no ditches up there. And then
from the back of the sidewalks it would begin to slope down, probably at about a 4 to 1
slope, and that's a slope that we use in...in subdivision designs, and that's the thing, it's a
mobile slope.
Hayek/ So the 130 is from beginning of the slope on either side? And everything in between.
Fosse/ Yep.
Hayek/ Okay. What, um, with respect to the east and west, on the south end, and in particular
the...I guess east, um, do we have...you've got some preliminary information in terms of
anticipated upstream impact. And I think you quoted three-quarters of an inch to two and
three-quarters of an inch. Do we know, um...how close some of those, uh, businesses
got to flooding, uh, in 08, and whether...what impact if any we think this would have in
those areas?
Fosse/ Well, I think that the businesses upstream from Highway 6 sandbag-ged... sandbagged,
excuse me (laughter) but they were...they were designed and built to our...our flood
plain management ordinance, which was a foot above the 100-year. So the...the event
that we experienced in 08 ~NOUId have been above that.
Hayek/ But like in the, you know, the area I think like, I think that's R.R. Donnelly, for example,
at the bottom of the eastside levee photograph, um, which is a substantial facility, and I
believe they escaped any problems in 2008 because they happened to have been, uh,
constructed on higher ground. But I don't know how close it got.
Davidson/ Yeah, we asked them that specific question when we were out there, Matt, and I
think...I thought they said that their parking lot, they had a parking lot get wet. Did you
say, Rick, you knew that they had a building wet at R.R. Donnelly? Okay, yeah, I think
they told us they just had their, part of their parking lot get wet, but even in the 08 flood
that they didn't have a building.
Dickens/ And how close did it get, I know on Gilbert Street there, cause they...I'd heard from
some of the businesses cause I went down and sandbagged, like Brian (mumbled) and
Good Fellow, and those, cause they were saying if it got over Gilbert Street, that it's
lower on the other side of Gilbert Street, and it got to about the middle of the street and,
how much higher it would have had to go to, you know, impact that area.
Fosse/ I don't know off the top of my head. Just (both talking)
Dickens/ ...rumor or not. I know all those areas down there started sandbagging.
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Fosse/ Uh-huh. One...one thing to keep in mind to help frame your decision is that under our
current, uh, flood plain development ordinance that we have in place, uh, we have
defined floodways. Are you familiar with the concept, where you can get flood plain
development permits to develop outside of the floodway, and in theory, if you develop all
of our floodplain, outside of the floodway, the water surface elevation for the 100-year
event will go up one foot. That's the basis of how those floodways are defined, and
that's the same technique that's used throughout the country for the various flood plain
management ordinances. So in theory, over time, as the flood plain develops, you can
expect that water surface pl•ofile to creep up to one foot above what it was when the
original maps were made.
Hayek/ If you covered every square inch outside of the floodway, the impact is a foot.
Fosse/ Yes. That's how the whole (mumbled)
Davidson/ When I was talking about the...the great benefit of the buyout program, I probably
should have added that as ~~vell as reducing the flood risk hazard down to zero, it's
creating capacity then in the flood plain to allow waters to inundate, uh, and...and that's
one of the benefits in that it reduces the water profile overall.
Mims/ If (both talking)
Davidson/ Any other.. ,excuse me, Susan.
Mims/ If we accept the money, we're committed, in some way (several talking)
Davidson/ Yeah, you know we've tried to get... as good an answer as we can from the State as
exactly what you're committing to, and I think you know we...we certainly want to leave
you with the impression that you know if you really don't think you want to build one of
these levees, don't accept the money! Um, because you know we...we, and David, if I'm
paraphrasing this incorrectly, please interrupt me, but you...we asked them what if we
get into we accept the money; we get into preliminary design and then when we see
actually what the impacts are going to be, we decide we don't want to do it.
Mims/ Right.
Davidson/ And I guess their answer was along the lines of, if you run into something that really
changes the direction that your application said you wanted to go. If you uncover
something that, oh my God, we had no idea of this, then there is a chance, but certainly
no certainty, that we would be able to keep the funds that we' d expended up to that point
and then turn the rest of the money back. Otherwise, if they make a determination that
hey, you said you wanted to do this, and now you're saying you don't, we will...we
would be responsible for the grant funds that we had...we would have to reimburse the
grant funds that we'd spent in design up to that point. So we certainly don't want to
leave with...leave you with the impression that we can go through the design phase and
then decide not to do it. Unfortunately we need to decide that tomorrow.
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Dickens/ But we can build two out the three (several talking)
Davidson/ Yes.
Dickens/ And...return the money that we don't use (several talking)
Davidson/ Yes, you're able to do that.
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Dilkes/ I've looked at the boilerplate agreement that you're likely to sign, and it, um, specifies
that if you default, i.e., if you don't build the project you say you're going to build, um,
then...you...you have to return the money.
Bailey/ But it's just a return of the money, there's no additional penalty, right?
Dilkes/ They, well they maintain all their legal (mumbled) they keep all their legal options which
would include specific performance requiring you to build the project, but I...I think
that's unlikely they would do that.
Mims/ Um...hate to belabor this, but more...some of the other points (mumbled). What about,
uh, people on the river side of the Taft levee talking about their, um, tapped in I believe
to water and sewer connection being on the other side of the levee. How would that
impact them? I realize we've offered them the buyout; they've chosen not to take it. So
there's some risk on their part, but...what kinds of impacts might they expect with that?
Fosse/ Those are details just like the cutoff wall and the driveways that would need to be worked
out during design.
Mims/ Okay.
Fosse/ ...just can't cut those utilities off.
Mims/ Yeah. What other...I just didn't know if there was anything from your perspective on,
you know, additional expenses that they might incur down the road, I mean...if there's a
water main break underneath this levee...
Fosse/ Yeah, uh, many of the water services today are bored, underneath roads. You can
conceivably bore underneath the levee, but...I don't know the complete answer to that
question, without doing the design.
Dilkes/ In Iowa, uh, cities are strictly liable for water main breaks. So they would not bear the
expense...of that (both talking)
Mims/ But if...if the City water main is on the Idyllwild side of the levee, and they're connecting
there, is the City responsible both from the city main to the...to the house? I
mean...(several talking) service lines.
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Champion/ You're responsible for those.
Mims/ Yeah, that's what I thought, and that's, yeah, going underneath the levee.
Davidson/ Any other questions for Rick, David, or myself?
Bailey/ Well, I...I have some funding questions, I guess, I mean, because...you know the
eastside and the Westside levee...levee estimates are closer. There's less of a gap, but
when we get to this Taft Speedway...and you know, I am generally supportive of this.
This is a direction that we've been going for a couple of years, and um, this was...this
was something that we indicated was likely, um, to people in this area, both on the river
side and Idyllwild, because we couldn't buyout Idyllwild, but if we look at this Taft
Speedway, I mean, the cost estimate is $11.6, and I know that we have this availability of
$3.7, um, but...but it's going to be somewhere in between, potentially, because we may
not build to the 500-year. So...we can get a 100-year, uh...plus three feet levee for
around $8.9, I mean, I guess I'm going shopping here. What can we buy for $10?
(laughter) I mean, what...what would that, I `m just curious about this whole thing
and...and when will we discuss what kind of, I mean, when you get some preliminary
design we'll have some better figures and then we'll choose, at what level we're
building?
Fosse/ I think the answer to that is mostly yes. In that...the question in front of you tomorrow
night is...is do you want to accept the grant...
Bailey/ Yeah, I get that.
Fosse/ ...not necessarily what level do you want to built to.
Bailey/ But, in accepting the grant, we are potentially looking at local obligation for a gap, and I
want to understand, I mean....the range of that obligation looks to be $3.75 million.
Generally comfortable with this because we don't have to elevate Foster Road, but I'm
just kind of trying to find out what we might discover down the road, so to speak.
Fosse/ And...and those types of things will emerge during design.
Bailey/ Okay. And so when would we be looking, I mean, design would commence immediately
after the grant and so next...you know...within the next six months we would have an
idea of...
Fosse/ That might be a little bit soon because of the federal money, will need to go through a
procurement process for the...for the designer, so that would take a couple months right
there before we get started.
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Bailey/ So, you're also saying that we should feel comfortable with this, filling this gap if we
accept this money, because potentially we're looking at buying something for $11.7
million?
Fosse/ Comfortable, I...I don't know about that. That'll all come out in...in January when
you're looking at the capital programs.
Bailey/ Right...well...well, Ijust want to, I mean, these decisions aren't made in isolation. I just
want to know what other decisions are impacting, but...from what you said tonight, we
could also spend $10 and get a perfectly serv...serviceable levee. I know that you won't
say yes, because you're an engineer and you won't (laughter) but it sounds like that's the
case.
Fosse/ Right.
Bailey/ Potentially!
Fosse/ Our best estimate now fora 100-year plus three, which is the minimum required, roughly
$8.9.
Bailey/ Okay. That's...I just wanted to...because if we go down this road, we start down...we
start on a journey. It's not just one decision, and I think we all know that, but I just want
to...to confirm that.
Fosse/ Yes.
Bailey/ For myself. Okay. Thanks.
Hayek/ What, uh, how high do we intend to build Dubuque?
Fosse/ Dubuque will be, uh, probably about a foot above what we experienced in 2008, uh,
again, those details will errlerge (several talking) that is, um...
Bailey/ 250-year plus!
Fosse/ Yeah! (laughter) No, the...what we experienced in 28, or 2008 was pretty close to the
500-year event, so we'll be about a foot or two above the 500-year event, with Dubuque
Street.
Hayek/ How many feet up?
Fosse/ Oh, how many feet?
Bailey/ Yeah, from where it's now?
Fosse/ Uh, at its lowest point probably in the neighborhood of 12 to 14. Is that...that close, Ron?
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Knoche/ (unable to hear)
Fosse/ Roughly 12 feet.
Bailey/ And so (both talking)
Hayek/ That's 500-plus one or two?
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Fosse/ Yes. (both talking)...which puts it...real close to where Taft Speedway would be if you
do the 500 (several talking)
Hayek/ Okay.
Fosse/ Yeah, it'd likely all be very close to the same.
Champion/ How many feet will the bridge be built up?
Fosse/ what we want is for the...the bottom of the beams on the bridge to be one or two feet
above what we experienced in...in 2008. Because once those beams make contact, that's
when we start to have that significant backwater. So by moving the bridge south, we're
going uphill a little bit. That's going to help, but then we also need to build a...a higher
bridge, probably a thinner deck, if possible, and then a longer span. The other thing to
keep in mind about Dubuque Street is there's no part of Dubuque Street that will act as a
levee. The intent of that is...is it simply protects the...you're getting the roadway up
above what we experienced in 2008. So that...that freeboard level may not be as much
as you would put in a levee when you're protecting residential property. Does that make
sense? Freeboard is that...that additional three feet...that you're talking about.
Wright/ It's going to look very different!
Champion/ So how...I know you can't answer this. It's not designed but (laughter) how do
people get to their houses along Dubuque Street? When this is...way up here in the air.
Fosse/ That's one of the things that will need to be worked out in design. Is there room to run
the driveway straight down from there? Do we run a parallel drive partially down the
front side of the levee? I mean, there's options there. We just don't know which one is
the best, yet.
Champion/ Cause there are a lot of driveways!
Fosse/ Yes. (several talking) Ron, did you want to come up and comment on anything?
Knoche/ (unable to hear away from mic)
Bailey/ You're going to have to...
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Fosse/ Oh, I'm sorry! I'm sorry, Connie.
Champion/ Yeah, Dubuque Street.
Fosse/ Dubuque Street. In most cases, those driveways are on the...the uphill side. So we'll
be...we'll be elevating up into those. So it'll be a different issue than we face on Taft
Speedway. I'm sorry. I was thinking a (both talking)
Champion/ Yeah, but I can...I can see that. Those ones that are...don't have anything and the
driveways just go straight up, and so you can connect into those, but what about those
houses that are kind of down on Dubuque Street?
Fosse/ Oh, are you talking about the...the one with the stone garage? Yeah, that's...that's one
that we really need to get figured out there. Is there an option for that, and we don't
know the answer yet.
Champion/ And so they're going to go out their back (mumbled) their front door because I don't
know if there's a back or front to that house, but are they going to walk out of their house
and look at this ten-foot wall of dirt?
Fosse/ We've already been talking with the property owner on that one, and that's one of the
things our consultant will be focusing on, but that is...that's a design challenge on this
project.
Champion/ I mean, I know we have to raise Dubuque Street. That was closed for a long time.
Hayek/ The same, uh, question as it relates to Taft, and the...the driveway spans from where a
levee would be placed to where garages are located for those houses, I mean, how much
depth is there to those driveways? What impact does this have on an individual driveway
along Taft?
Fosse/ It'll vary from driveway to driveway, and...and that's something that we haven't
quantified yet. We don't know the specifics.
Hayek/ What other questions or requests for information can we generate?
Champion/ One of my concerns...
Davidson/ Is there, excuse me, Connie. Is there anything that you want us to bring tomorrow
night that we haven't presented today, or included in your memo?
Champion/ A decision for my brain! (laughter)
Davidson/ We'll get right to work on that!
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December 6, 2010 City Council Work Session Page 23
Champion/ Um...yeah, completed design (several talking and laughing). One of the things I'm
worried about, and I know this is minor when you're comparing it to people's houses, uh,
but I am really concerned about...coming into the city and what that's going to look like.
And I know because it's not designed you can't answer the question. Um...
Bailey/ But we do have respect for our entranceways and I assume that that would be
maintained.
Fosse/ Yes. That is...has been a big area of emphasis with our, even with our consultant
selection for the Dubuque Street project. Is the preservation of that corridor and the
experience that you have when you come into Iowa City there.
Bailey/ (mumbled)
Champion/ Yes, well, that will be changed.
Hayek/ As we...do you have more?
Mims/ Well, I...do you...kind of asked this already with the Hesco, but do you see any...
reasonable temporary alternative? Instead of building a permanent levee along Taft?
Fosse/ If you go back to the...the report that Stanley did in the winter of 08, 09, uh, they looked
at a variety of alternatives for that...that area along there, and one of them that they
looked at was...was a demountable wall, one that you take down and is not there when
you're...when you're not using it. Uh, the cost was pretty close to an earthen structure.
Um, but certainly what we experience as a city is each time that is deployed, we have an
expense to deploy it and then take it back apart, and each year you basically need to
practice that, uh, replace parts that are warped or old and...and it's...it's something that's
got to last a long time. So it's...it's an option that we had not, uh, considered.
Hayek/ Is that what's being done behind the Marriott? For example, just (mumbled)
Fosse/For certain stretches of...yeah.
Hayek/ But not...anywhere near the length of this?
Fosse/ Right.
Hayek/ (mumbled)
Fosse/ The University is also looking at it. They called it an `invisible wall' because you don't
see it when it's...when it's not in place, but it's...it is (laughter) around the, uh, the Art
Building West, West Art Building.
Wright/ The thing that'll be...up on the sidewalk right away and around the building?
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Fosse/ Yes. It's real close to the building there.
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Bailey/ Well, and I do think you bring up a good point, Susan, about...what we consider in flood
response, and then what we commit to for city resources down, for flood response,
and...and levees and permanent structures, buyouts and those kinds of things, reduces
our, not only our expense, but the expectation, because as you know, during those events,
there's just a lot going on. And, to add to that list...I think creates challenges.
Wright/ And I would expect that even if we were able to purchase some kind of invisible wall
(laughter and several talking) um, that it would still be putting the houses on Taft on the
wet side of that wall.
Fosse/ Yes.
Wright/ So...
Bailey/ It doesn't address some concerns, although I will say that...this is not a direction that
should come as a surprise to anybody. Unfortunately.
Fosse/ Keep in mind that if for any of those temporary measures, we still need to do the sub-
surface cutoff that we talked about earlier. So that would need to align with whatever
system we plan to put over the top of it. It can't be staggered.
Hayek/ And the...the amount of a wall still results in a...a post or a pillar every ten...five or ten
feet, doesn't it?
Fosse/ There's a couple versions. One is you leave those pillars in place. That's perhaps the
most reliable. The other is that those...you pop those pillars out and you store those with
the wall, but then you've got to make sure you can get `em in those holes. Which...to
me, I...I worry about that a little bit, because when I go out and watch the people try and
reinstall their sidewalk cafe fences every year (laughter) can't do it!
Mims/ When you talked about the Hesco, you talked about, you know, all the heavy equipment
and basically tearing up lawns and, you know, that sort of thing, bring... is there any
feasible...way of using Taft and No Name as the base for the Hesco's?
Fosse/ You could, but again, you'd need to put in that sub-surface cutoff.
Mims/ Right.
Fosse/ There'd be significant expense there, and then, um...you probably want to...to grade it all
to a uniform elevation. It gives you a pretty good head start.
Mims/ Sure.
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Fosse/ So that you can go up from there, similar to what the University has done with the
sidewalk system. And, I...I, I'm trying to recall if that was one of the options that they
investigated, that Stanley investigated.
Mims/ Uh-huh.
Fosse/ I don't recall off the top of my head.
Champion/ So we're going...if we build this levee, this Taft Speedway/No Name levee,
we...we'll probably create more damage to the houses that are on the waterway, is that
correct? Because they...
Wright/ In what sense, Connie?
Champion/ ...well, if the water can't go anywhere, it's going to go up!
Wright/ Well, anything we put in there is going to...have those houses wet.
Fosse/ Yeah, that's...that's where we're talking about the model earlier, and the combined effect
of the larger Park Road bridge, with this levee, will have a net effect of...of lowering...
Champion/ Three inches or (mumbled)
Fosse/ Yep.
Champion/ And we're going to spend a lot of money to protect Idyllwild, I mean, which is a lot
of people live there - I understand that -but cause we could not buy them out, because
they're condominiums, cause the government hasn't caught up with condominiums.
Davidson/ Yeah, I mean, there was...there were some possible, well, sort of ridiculous scenarios,
if...if all the property owners had agreed that was not going to happen, um...you know,
you don't know. It's a unique situation with a condominium, um, association. Um, and
we did, you know, we did point out the tax base there so it would be, you know,
prohibitive using local city funds that didn't have the federal stipulations attached to
them, you know, it would be cost prohibitive to doing that with local funds.
Champion/ Right.
Davidson/ Yeah, and David's point about that if...if you were to decide not to do the Taft
Speedway/No Name levee, we would then continue to have the Foster Road elevation
project in...I think it's in 2013, I think. Um...so (both talking) it's in the FY11 budget,
but it's not in FY11. I think it's in 2013. We wanted to keep that project in cause
otherwise you know there continues to be housing built, uh, quite a bit more than was
there in 08, so we probably need to think about doing something there.
Hayek/ And that's $3.7 I think, isn't it?
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Davidson/ No, it's $3.
Champion/ Three.
Davidson/ It's $3 in the CIP right now. The $3.7 was the local match for the 500-plus-three.
Champion/ And, can somebody just remind me how much higher does that road need to go up?
It wasn't really totally flooded. It was just...too much water to drive through.
Fosse/ Foster Road, roughly six feet. Ron, is that pretty close?
Bailey/ Because that's grown, because...hasn't it, that estimate I mean?
Fosse/ Yeah.
Bailey/ Because...it...it seemed like it was under a million at one point, to just elevate a portion,
and then... so we're making it higher or you discovered something?
Fosse/ I don't...I don't know the basis of the one million dollar one, but what we...what we do
have in that corridor is our primary raw and finished water lines for the city, and if we
elevate the road we want to elevate those utilities with them, because we don't want to
bury them so deep that if there's a problem we can't get at `em. And, also what we're
looking at is alternatives to elevating Foster Road, perhaps a...a route, a northerly route
might be a more appropriate solution there. That's...that's one of the things that will be
explored if we go...if we go with that...that technique.
Bailey/ I think at one time we had just talked about a smaller portion, that little dip portion,
elevating that. I think that's how the (mumbled)
Fosse/ Okay.
Champion/ One more question about that. How will we provide access while we're doing that?
Fosse/ That's the challenge on any project we do, any paving project. It's...it's something that
we need to work out in the design, and then work with the contractor to...to do that.
Davidson/ And of course when there's no flood event, Taft Speedway provides the alternate
access to the Peninsula.
Hayek/ Can you, um...I don't know if this is more you guys or...or Eleanor, but...tell us what
we are deciding tomorrow night and what we are not necessarily deciding tomorrow
night, as to these agenda items. For example, we've talked about a number of ways to
approach the Taft issue. iJm... and we've talked about the limitations of the information
that we have now. Um, and certain ideas have been thrown out, you know, do you build
them up a certain way, and then do something temporary to get through the rest of the
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way. What is on...what is in the bucket of things we have to decide tomorrow night,
versus would come with more information as the design unfolds?
Dilkes/ Well, the way I would answer that is to say that you're deciding to take the money and
sign the grant agreement, which will obligate you to design and do a project that provides
a minimum of 100-year plus three feet.
Davidson/ And that it be a permanent structure.
Hayek/ Okay.
Dilkes/ And...if you chose at some point not to complete whatever it is you decide to design that
meets that criteria, then it is likely you would have to give back the money that you have
received.
Hayek/ Okay. Well, I think that's important for us to note. Tomorrow night we're deciding
whether as to each of the two projects we are committed to building a permanent
structure at 100-plus-three :feet.
Davidson/ Right. And (several talking) and you know the State's expectation is that it is going to
be an earthen levee. If you have any ideas that you feel would qualify for permanent
structures, and we know Hesco barriers do not...please let us know and we will try and
check them out with the State...to determine if they would be grant-eligible or not. If
you have any other ideas.
Hayek/ Okay. Any other questions? All right, thanks for walking us through this. (several
talking) We do appreciate it. Why don't we take afive-minute break and then...the rest
of the issues. (BREAK)
Brick Street Repair /Funding Strategy (IP2 of 12/2/10):
Hayek/ Next item is brick streets, uh, repair funding strategy.
Fosse/ Thank you! See how my voice does. It's a lot of talking in one night! What...what
we've got here are... are two agenda items that have spent perhaps a record amount of
time on the pending list, and...and (laughter) kind of like Bret Favre's starting streak
(laughter) we're ending our streak tonight. Part of the reason they've been on the
unfunded list is so much of our focus has been on...on flood recovery and flood
mitigation, that it's hard to...hard to get back and look at this, but we thought...we need
to have this conversation before we address the budget this year, so that's why they're on
this evening. Uh, we'll talk about both brick streets and alleys tonight. They're very
similar in a lot of ways in that they...they are kind of low on the priorities for competing
for funds, especially alleys, and we'll talk specifically about that policy, um...and...they,
they're very similar in a lot of ways. So what I've tried to do is...is lay out the memos
and our conversations tonight to be as parallel as possible, and then we'll talk about them
in that context, and we'll lead off with brick streets and just start out, uh, with our
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inventory of brick streets. ~JVe have about 26 blocks of streets out there, uh, most of them
are with the old vitrified clay bricks. Uh, we do have a few, uh, blocks on Iowa Avenue,
and then, uh, an intersection that has the...the new concrete pavers in there, and I'll show
you some pictures of that a little bit later, but mostly we're talking about very old streets,
um, and I'll mention that most of the original part of the town of Iowa City...the streets
were not paved at all originally, and uh, the first streets that were paved were Linn Street
and Brown Street, to provide a route for the downtown churches out to the cemetery. Uh,
so that was a good thing, because cem...or funerals were a rain or shine type event and...
and you really needed some pavement for that. Um...what we've done is we've just
somewhat unscientifically classified our...our streets into very good, good, average, or in
very poor condition, and if you're into bell curves, this is a pretty good bell curve. Prior
to a few years ago, it was not in that, you know, we've completely rebuilt a couple of
blocks of brick streets, so that's taken two off the very poor and moved them to the very
good end of the spectrum. That's a good thing. And...and I want to tell you that
it's...it's really hard to do the condition of brick streets justice with pictures. You really
need to go out and drive (several talking) feel just what they're like. Um, this is...this is
Church Street. This is one of the streets that we've reconstructed. You see it carries a lot
of bus traffic and that's part of why it was in a position where it needed to be
reconstructed. Um, and this is...oh, I'm thinking this is (several talking) Linn Street!
Yeah. One of the examples in there. Uh, Brown, uh this one actually falls in our average
to good area. And here you can see some of the... some of the undulations that you' 11 see,
uh, this is a bump in the middle. Here's one of the things you really watch for is when
the bricks start to come out, you know, you've all held like a...fi:eld corn and it's hard to
get the kernels out till you get the first few out and then they really start popping! Same
thing's true with our brick streets so we need to be careful in that regard. Um, and then
Dewey Street is a good ex~unple of one that's in very poor condition, and that's one
we...we really hate to go out and put any asphalt over existing brick like this, but this
was a case where it was just impossible to plow and pretty difficult to drive and we didn't
have the money to rebuild it at that time. This is Harrison Street over by the Post Office.
That's one that's...that's starting to get in very bad condition there. Um...but a little bit
about our policies. Back in the 1980s, we made a decision as a city that we're not going
to overlay any more brick streets without specific City Council approval. And since that
time we've only overlaid two blocks and that's the Clinton Street hill where it goes from
the railroad tracks down to Benton Street, and that one just came apart on us during 1993.
We had 63 inches of rain and that's a bus route and...and trucks going down to City
Carton, and that just disintegrated so we ended up overlaying that, uh, other than though,
everything else has stayed put out there. Um...so we don't put down any asphalt on
bricks without being back to the City Council, uh, the other policy that we implemented
in the 1990s is if you're in there doing a utility cutting, utility repair, you've got to put
bricks back there. You're not going to put in a concrete patch or an asphalt patch.
Because that's...that's just as bad as overlaying it. It really messes up the brick streets,
uh, for us. So we also maintain in our budget about $20,000 per year to deal with spot
repairs, and these are...are~ we just go out and...and deal with some of the worst things,
and the...one of the things that we, well, here's an example of...of doing spot repairs out
there. One of the things that we find is that these bricks are really a finite resource, and
not all the bricks in Iowa City streets are the same. There's a variety of different...
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different sizes out there, so we can't just...it's not aone-size-fits-all solution. So we've
started stockpiling bricks and uh, we've even gone so far, um...let me move ahead here.
That where...when we do construction projects, in some cases where we know there's
likely to be brick underneath that asphalt, we'll mine that brick and salvage it, and then it
ends up down at...at the Public Works' yard, and I wanted to point out, this...this is one
of Gilpin's garages here that we...we acquired from along Taft Speedway and we're
using that down in our Streets Department now for storage. Now these bricks, you know,
they look clean. It's just a searchable thing to get `em out and put `em here, but it's
really an ugly process getting to this point, because they virtually have to be hand-sorted
out of the pavement that gets...that comes out of here, and then they go in a big pile
down in the Streets Department, and they've got asphalt and tar and all sorts of things
stuck to `em, and then we use community service folks, we use volunteers where brick by
brick you take a hammer acid you get the junk off `em and you palletize it. So it's...it's
very labor intensive to get to this point, but we understand that this...this is a resource
that...that's finite, so we've got to...got to save the ones we can. Um...I wanted to point
out, this is Bowery Street before we rebuilt it, and...and this is an area where we had
done a couple spot repairs, and you can see `em... see that dark spot there, and this dark
spot here, and what our experience has been is...is once a street reaches the point where
you start doing those spot repairs, you're just chasing it around, and pretty soon you've
done the entire street, but you've done it on a small incremental basis that you really pay
a lot...a high unit cost for. Um, so the...the most economical solution has been to
remove and replace a block at a time, and what we do is...is we built basically just a
regular concrete street that carries all the structural strength. We put on an asphalt setting
bed, and then the bricks go down on top of that. And you'll find that when we do that, it
rides pretty rough. I mean, the bricks aren't really smooth. You know they don't
undulate, but they're not all the same height and...and part of that is is that as those
bricks have been in there close to 100 years and they wear, so they're not all the same
thickness and then they go in a big pile and you pull them out of the pile and you just put
`em in here. So that's if...:if you drive Church Street, you'll see a lot of those variations
in brick heights, so that's just one of the things that comes with it. That adds a little bit of
noise, but it...it also adds...it's nice character for the streets, as well.
Wilburn/ Traffic calming.
Bailey/ Traffic calming.
Fosse/ Traffic calming, there you go! Um, I put some comparative prices in there, and based on
our experience with the two blocks we've done. When you look at total project costs,
that's design, inspection, and...and your construction costs, roughly $290,000 for a
block. That's 31-feet wide. Uh, compare that to...to concrete street alone at $204,000.
You're paying, you know, roughly $85,000, $86,000 to get that brick veneer on top. Uh,
but I think you have a pretty durable product, uh, once you're at that point. Uh, and also
that's compared to $58,00() to put down, uh, simply an asphalt overlay on top of the
brick. Now what this comparison does not do is...is look at life cycle analysis, in that if
you put down a brick over... or, yeah, excuse me, an asphalt overlay, you're going to
need to replace that on average about every 15 years. Whereas if you do a complete
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rebuild, you can expect to get 40 to 60 years out of that, hopefully more, and when you
look at Brown Street and how long that's lasted, uh, with the concrete that they had to
work with back then, it's... it's really held up very well. So if you look at an annualized
cost, it's probably at least abreak-even there. So, if...if you've got the money, you...and
they're thinking long-term, it's...it's a flip of the coin there.
Dickens/ What would it take to do all the streets?
Fosse/ All the streets?
Dickens/ Yeah, that need, I mean, that are in the worst condition (several talking)
Fosse/ Well, we're looking at (both talking)
Dickens/ ...very poor to poor.
Fosse/ Yeah.
Dickens/ Just to get those up to average. (several talking)
Fosse/ Yeah. Yep. So...roughly a million dollars for three blocks, little less than a million.
And, uh...we...we do have a good, couple good successes with that. Church Street went
very well, and Bowery. That turned out even smoother. I was surprised at how even the
tops of those bricks were, and maybe it's cause it didn't have as much bus traffic that
wore the bricks a different thickness - I don't know! Uh, but...that turned out nice, and
that's one we came up...more short on the bricks than we thought, that is we had to go
out and...and buy some bricks from an antiquer to fill these in, and that's kind of a big
task if you've got to find bricks that are the same thickness and pretty close to the same
color. Uh, so that added to the cost of this project. And...and when I talked about
mining the bricks, one of the things that I forgot to mention is...is, you know, for every
good brick you get out of there you might have two or three broken ones. So you... you
don't get aone-for-one on that. Now one of the other products that...that's being used
out there, uh, and I don't know about the long-term performance of it, uh, structurally is
...is the concrete brick paver. This by no means is a historical solution to...to some of
the brick streets in the other areas of town, but uh, it's kind of cool. You have a lot of
colors you can work with; the industry's pretty standardized on size and that sort of thing,
and...and you can do some really cool things with the patterns, but what I'll caution you
with is...is it looks great on the plans and it looks great for a while, but...but today
that's...that's what that intersection looks like and uh, when...when we did the design of
this (laughter) we knew...we knew that this occurs. That...that the concrete pavers they
lose some of their color over time and then they get dirty, and if...if your colors are
subtle, you're...you're not. going to see a difference. So we instructed our designers to
use as much contrast as they could, and they thought it kind of garish at the time, uh, but
still, even with that contrast, that's what we have today. Uh, you have better success on
the sidewalks that, you know, as far as maintaining that pattern, and if you want to look
at a...our oldest installation of this type of product is go the center of College Green
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Park, and that was redone...I want to say about 15, 18 years ago, with a red brick in
there, a red concrete block, and you can see that that fades out to almost gray over that
period of time. So I'm guessing it over a longer period you'll have more fading. The
neat thing about vitrified clay is it... it holds its color. The hard thing about vitrified clay
is...is the standardization of the industry there. So, with that background, let's talk a
little bit about, uh, about recommendations and analysis. One of the things I'm showing
you here is...is our road use tax fund balance. This is the cash balance at the end of the
year, and our history there going back to just 2004, uh, and I'll point out that that has an
annual expenditure of about $6.5 million. So this...uh, this is...we get this money from
the gas that's collected at the pump. The road...road use tax. And it's been fixed since
1989 and we talked about this a little bit last year during the budget analysis, and how
that is declining, and one of the things where we kept it from going in the red is
that...that we used to use road use tax to pay as we go on certain things, and now we use
GO funding for, uh, a number of these things. Some of our paving projects, they usually
had a component of it that was funded with road use tax, you know, a million dollars or
something was not unusual to spend in a year out of paving, part of paving projects.
Traffic signals are now paid for with GO, as are curb ramps, uh, part of our bike and
pedestrian trail system is paid for with GO, as well as sidewalk infill. So that's one of the
things that has kept this from venturing into the red and then also you'll notice that, uh,
from 11 out through 14, those are projections from the State, and...and they have told us
to be cautious about the out years. You know, don't spend that money before you see it!
They, you know, they show that turning around for us, but uh, that's...that's just based
on their projections, which we seem...axe a little bit optimistic. So with that, let me run
through the recommendations here, uh, things to think about. One is, uh, to continue our
existing policy with regard to asphalt overlays and utility repairs, and salvaging bricks
where we can. I think that''s good policy that should be sustained, um...we should
evaluate the remaining brick streets and see if there are any locations that don't warrant
the additional expense of... of maintaining them as brick streets, and if... if you take that
on, that's something that you definitely don't want to do in a vacuum. You're going to
need the input from the neighborhood association, the Historic Preservation Commission,
and it's...it's a broader question than a decision that we'll probably make around the
table here. Um...prioritize main...remaining streets for construction and restoration, and
develop projects that are minimum of one-block in length. So (noise on mic) think that...
Champion/ (mumbled) did that!
Fosse/ Yeah, we can put more at this annually. You know, we've got $20,000 a year now, and
you could double that to $40,000, but I don't know that you would get double the
outcome for that, in that yc-u're just taking care of those bad spots and you still have the
broader issue of those...those large streets degrading. Um...recommend including the
reconstruction, restoration projects for consideration in the capital program, so they go in
the hopper with all the other projects that you look at in January, and make decisions on
it. It's just something that we want to do this year or next year, or year "X." And then as
I said, continue to dedicate that...that $20,000 per year and use for temporary spot
repairs, because we do need to do that on occasion. So with that I open it up to
discussion to get your thoughts on it... (unable to hear person away from mic) It has
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December 6, 2010 City Council Work Session Page 32
been, and there's some years we don't spend any of that, other years it goes a little bit
long. That's...it's true for most of our annual type allocations that we make.
Champion/ So the two worst streets, I guess one is Dewey Street, and what's the other one? Do
you know?
Fosse/ Harrison is...
Champion/ Oh, Harrison, right!
Fosse/ ...very bad shape, you know, and that's one that it's an area that's going to redevelop.
Champion/ Right!
Fosse/ And we need to think about, what's our vision for that street. That also goes a block to
the east, excuse me, west, running down the hill by the Courthouse there. So there's two
blocks of it, at that location.. I don't know if I have a map in here...nope, sorry!
Champion/ That's okay, I know where you mean.
Bailey/ And...and the Courthouse is on the National Historical Register, but that's not a historic
district.
Fosse/ Yeah, and that's...
Bailey/ I think that merits some consideration when we Look at those (several talking)
Champion/ And Harrison...Harrison Street is also being looked at as part of the, uh, Justice
Center construction.
Fosse/ Uh-huh.
Champion/ So I wouldn't want to put any money into that, and with the... School District offices
moving, I'm not sure what' going to happen with that property either so...
Fosse/ I don't know. That is one of our quirkiest sizes for bricks. If you look at that, it's a long,
skinny brick. It doesn't fit with the others in town.
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Fosse/ I don't think so.
Wright/ (away from mic) proceed with caution (mumbled) streets are (mumbled)
Bailey/ Part of that (both talking)
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December 6, 2010 City Council Work Session
Wright/ (away from mic)
Fosse/ Uh-huh.
Bailey/ Right.
Hayek/ Let me throw an idea out there, um...
Karr/ Mike, do you have your mic on?
Wright/ (away from mic)
Page 33
Hayek/ The, uh...the per block reconstruction and rebricking is obviously very expensive, but I
guess the perspective I come from on this is to look at, and this is a term you gave me
earlier today, Rick, is the life cycle cost.
Fosse/ Yes.
Hayek/ What's the cost of doing it., um, with asphalt, and how long does that get you before you
have to replace it; what's the cost of doing the concrete underlay with brick, and how
long does that, uh, you know, what sort of life span does that get you; and you know, I
mean, I think Brown Street's a hundred years old and...and much of it is in perfectly
good shape, or a good chunk of it is in perfectly good shape, so you're talking about a
decade's long return on...on that investment and...um...and I did some very rough math,
but if you got, you know, 50 or 70 years out of...out of a project and compare that to the
15 years, the costs are more comparable; there's more up front obviously.
Fosse/ Yes.
Hayek/ But...uh, you reap that down the road and I think that, you know, when I...when I
brought the brick streets thing up, uh...many months ago, before Bret Favre joined the
NFL (laughter) um, uh...I think maybe you brought it up as well, but in any event, at the
time I was thinking, you know, just a modest increase, $40,000 a year or something better
than...something more than what we're doing now and, but this idea of a...if you're
going to do some...if you're going to make some progress do a...do it a block at a
time...makes some sense to me, and I'm wondering if...if we have too many blocks
and...and too tight a budget to do anything...very significant on the frontend, but...I
wonder if we couldn't consider some measured approach to slowly working our way
back and...and look at doing, um...you know, one block a year or every other year, some
period of time, and obviously that would change because future Councils could say, you
know what? We don't want to do that, but something that would start us back in the right
direction, and I know therf; are folks out there who want us to, you know, uncover
currently asphalted areas and restore the bricks there. While that would be nice, I think
we need to look at what we, first things first, exactly! So, that would be my idea.
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Bailey/ Well, and I think that's a really good approach, I mean, it makes sense, and um...looking
at the annualized costs, it is a great way to do that, and...and we know that this isn't...it
would be nice if every decision was a cost benefit analysis, but it's not. I mean, this goes
to historic preservation, it goes to sense of place, and...and that broader discussion, but
we wouldn't have to necessarily GO bond. We can do inner-fund loans, Landfill, I mean,
there are some other funding options, I mean...still not delightful, but...we could make
that commitment and look for those funding options.
Mims/ Well, and I think we need to look at...from the maps that Rick gave us, look at the streets
and...and again, take a broader approach with the neighbors, etc., and get that public
input, but as I glance at this, there are certain brick streets that I would say they aren't
worth keeping. You know, in terms of location, housing, um...at first blush that would
be my response. Now, neighborhoods might be totally opposite to where I am, but just
because they're brick now, I think doesn't...doesn't necessarily mean we have to be
committed to every single one of these, and so I think we need to really look at if we're
going to try and do what IV[att is saying, which I think is a good idea, really prioritize not
just on the condition they're in, but you know let's find out what are the worst ones, but
like you said you know why put any money into Harrison when we don't know what's
happening with, uh, the new Justice Center and what might, you know, what might go
there. Um...
Dickens/ But is something going to have to be done sooner...on that because it is in such poor
condition?
Fosse/ That's one where, uh, yeah, we'll probably reach a point where we'll need to do some
repairs, and then we' 11 need to discuss, do we pay to do the brick repair or do some... do
some patching, similar to what we've done on Dewey Street to get us through
until...until another decision is made.
Dickens/ Yeah, because there is no residential on Harrison at all.
Champion/ No.
Dickens/ Either of those blocks.
Hayek/ (mumbled) (several talking) and I guess...the other point I was going to make is that, um,
especially when you look at the north end, brick streets, I mean, that's part of historic
district, uh, we have invested in that area because we believe it has an economic
development side to it, um...and certainly that's the area where the neighborhoods are
going to be...
Bailey/ We already have a letter.
Hayek/ Yeah, so...
Bailey/ Some of us have already gotten a call.
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Champion/ Yes, I had a few calls too. Um, well, I do think we need to take care of the...Dewey
Street. That looks almost as bad as Bowery was, maybe worse!
Dickens/ I walk up there a lot and that's...
Bailey/ (both talking)
Dickens/ ...cars are going to come off of it! It's...it's (mumbled) shape!
Hayek/ Well, we can figure out which ones to tackle first, and then maybe that's more of
Engineering or Public Works, so I don't know but...I'd like to see us at least be open to it
as we get into CIP, some sort of... schedule.
Wright/ I think it's a terrific idea!
Bailey/ And, even as we move into CIP and some sort of schedule, I would like minimally some
input from, um, I mean, naturally the neighborhoods, but minimally some staff and
maybe the Commission's input about what they see as priorities, as well. You know,
let's not make this decision in a vacuum. We have a commission that looks at the historic
significance of these kinds of things. Let's involve them. We have a staff person; let's
involve her.
Champion/ Well, I think there are other things to consider though, for instance, Dewey Street is
probably not a historic housing area, but it's a really tight neighborhood and
um... sometimes those small houses that aren't, um, maintained like, um, historic
structures, it's easy to say let's pave their street over, I mean, I...I mean that concerns me
too, that I don't want just Historic Preservation people to kind of go forward with this.
Wright/ Well, it's not a historic district...
Bailey/ ...well, and let's involve Marcia (several talking) yeah. Yeah, I mean, let's get some
neighborhood input. I...I agree! Because like Terry said, I was there just yesterday
and...
Champion/ Yeah, it's not good!
Dickens/ (mumbled) on that at all!
Fosse/ So, I think what I'm hearing is that you'd like us to...to package for the capital program
for consideration in the capital program, uh, a couple blocks, you know, not necessarily
in one year, but...but...in some years where we can fit it in, uh, for the sake of our
discussion for the capital program, we may not need to decide which block we'll do, but
roughly how much we want to spend on that. (several responding) And how that stacks
up against your other capital project priorities. Shall we go there? (several responding)
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Champion/ Great, thank you!
Alley Inventory (IP3 of 12/2/10):
Fosse/ Okay! Well, let's uh change gears and uh, we'll move onto alleys, which really are the
bottom-feeders of the (laughter) of the funding world! Yes! That's our number one alley
for complaints! (laughter)
Champion/ I drive down it almost every day!
Wright/ The alley from hell!
Fosse/ It's a bad one! (several talking) That one, it got so bad that we...we actually went out
and...and put rock over it, because there were...there were hunks of concrete that were
tipping as cars drove over it, it'd pop up and snag the frame on a car so we put rock over
it and we started grading...grading over it. Uh, but...but looking at our inventory of
alleys, we have just shy of 250 alleys in...in town, about 100 of those are currently
concrete or...or close•to concrete. (laughter) Um, asphalt, chip seal and gravel!
Um...and...and what we've done over the years, let me show you some of them. You
know, the concrete, they start out pretty good and this one's over 20 years old. It's
holding up very well, but they just start going downhill, breaking up, and...and then
suddenly they reach a point at which these pieces start popping out and tipping, and...and
they end up like...like the one over by John's Grocery that are, basically we...the term
for this is `unserviceable' and we...we just, there's not much we can do, uh, to keep those
in business, keep those running. Uh, asphalt alleys, there are...there's a surprising
number of asphalt alleys. I was surprised to see 26 because I don't believe that the City
has ever asphalted an alley! These are all private projects where people have banded
together, or...or at least a couple property owners on a block have (noise on mic) and...
and put some asphalt down. But then once that's down, there's an expectation on our
part that we're going to take care of it. Then the gravel alleys, uh, again, those...those
are in varying states. Some are pretty good and...and some are not. I'll talk with you in
a little bit about some of the issues, of uh, taking care of those. Now the...the concrete
alleys, uh...as I said, they just generally degrade till they get to a point, at this point,
and... and this by and large is where the majority of our complaints about alleys come
from, and...since we stopped doing special assessments for alley projects, our...our
reconstruction of alleys has pretty well come to a standstill. Uh, one that we were able to
put together is the one across the street by the Co-Op, and we were able to work out a
cost sharing agreement with them, because there's only one property owner to work with.
They own both sides of the street out there, but in my memo, uh, to you I've outlined, uh,
five different schemes, if you will, for how alleys, improvements, might be funded, and
over the years we've tried various schemes with...with really no success on getting
property owners to really band together and... and deal with it, and Eleanor and I will talk
about this a little more later on, but the...the special assessment thing, there's a process
by which you can (mumbled) request that by petition, and...and we tried that for a
number of years, and...and the hard part is we can get a lot of property, er, residents to
sign the petition that they want their alley approved, but the property owners are not
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willing to sign the petition, and we'll come back and talk more about that a little later on,
but...but this is really where...where the focus of our problems are. Uh, there's another
alley, and might even be a shot in the same...no, that's a different alley. Uh, but it's
very, very bad condition. Now gravel alleys...when...when we can get at `em are...are
really not that hard to fix. Our policy there is the...the property owners pay for the rock
out at the quarry, and we gc- get it and we spread it, and...and we put it out there. And,
uh, but we can't get in every alley. You can't get your trucks through an alley like this;
you can't get the motor graders through there, so it...they just really...you don't get
maintenance happening there. Couple other unique problems that we have with...with
gravel alleys is they tend to migrate. Uh, here's one you can see, here's the opening in
the curb, you know, that's...that's where the alley's supposed to be. But over years,
because of side friction here, it just crept off to the left there, you know, maybe a quarter
inch here, but...over the decades, it leaves the right-of--way. Then we get calls from
people saying come get your alley out of my yard (laughter). I don't want it here
anymore! (laughter) And it's hard to do, because as the alley moves in one direction,
plants and trees and stuff go in on the other side, and we spend a lot of time with our
surveyors and city forester trying to sort those things out. Um...and...people ask too
about plowing alleys, why we don't go in and plow those, and this is just a good example
of...of some of the obstacles where you've got a cross slope toward the building here
and...and if you slide on the ice at all with a plow truck, you're right into that building,
and the plow will be coming through the wall into that apartment there. Uh, other
problems we have is you have wheel wells right, or window wells right next to the...the
alley, so you bury those in the snow. You can plow people's garage door shut. So, you
know, any time we go into an alley with a plow, it...often times generates more
complaints than it solves. Uh, the only alleys that we do spend some time on are the, uh,
the downtown alleys, and...and we primarily just apply salt to those and try and burn
down and melt through that. Um, I did want to mention that our philosophy, uh, on
funding of alley improvements has been based on the fact that...that the alleys serve
primarily, if not exclusively, the property owners that abut them. So based on that, the
cost of...of the alley and the maintenance of that alley should be borne by the adjacent
property owners, and that...that's been the basis of the policy over...over the years.
Um...so, let's...let me move on and talk a little bit about the cost to upgrade an alley. To
convert a gravel alley to a paved alley is roughly $170,000, and that includes design and
other expenses, and that's excluding storm sewer. If you put storm sewer in,
you'll...who knows what that's going to cost, because that varies from alley to alley.
Some alleys it all drains out either end and you don't worry about that. Uh, if you do it
by special assessment project, it's going to cost a little more than that - $ 181,000 is an
estimate of that, and the reason for that is is the technique of which the State specifies
that we recover the assessment costs and also put together a fund if there's...there's a
default on that sort. Uh... so let's talk about, um, recommendations on that. For gravel
alleys, we're really not looking to change the policy, at least I don't recommend changing
the policy at this time, because the...the, if we do change the policy, the only way we
could really accommodate that is by devoting more of the road use tax funds,
which...which we are short on right now. Um, so it's...it's hard to change that in any
significance. It's not pretty, but it works. It gets the job done in most cases. Uh, but I...I
do think that we're...we've kind of reached an impasse on the paved alleys, and the
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alleys that really need to be repaved, uh, we haven't done any projects in 20-plus years so
the...nothing's coming off the bad list. But more are going on the bad list over the years,
as it...as it continues to degrade. So we have a couple options available to us there. One
is the special assessment process, and uh, when Eleanor gets back...
Karr/ She'll be right back.
Fosse/ Okay, we'll talk a little bit more about that as...as well, and then, um...perhaps funding
with GO bonds. Now that would be a... a variation of... of policy that we've had in, well,
up until this point. I don't think we've ever...ever varied from that, with the exception of
the Central Business District. And within the Central Business District is the alley
behind the Mayor's business, which is an exception. That's private alley so...he's stuck
with that one!
Hayek/ Yeah, I get no love there! (laughter)
Fosse/ So...to get moving again, we need to...we need to get some money to do the projects, and
uh...one of the...if we do the assessment option, uh, we can...we can begin that process
with...with a petition, again, and if it...if it does not...(mumbled) cause she understands
this process better than I do! But basically as I mentioned earlier, you...it's easy to get
signatures of people who live along the alley. It's hard to get signatures of the people
who...who own the property and will actually be assessed for that. Uh, but once we have
a petition, it... it will go to you, and then you can make a decision, if you want to proceed
with an alley paving project there or not, um...but...when you make that decision you'll
need to understand that...that with the special assessment rules that are specified by the
State, that if a certain majority of the property owners oppose the project, then it takes I
think a... a 6 to 7.. .
Karr/ Extraordinary majority vote.
Fosse/ There we go! You want to expand on that. Is there two different levels? Extraordinary
and then unanimous?
Karr/ Uh-huh, that's correct. There is.
Fosse/ Okay. And the...the history that we had in the late 80s, alley assessment projects as well
as sidewalk assessment projects, is that we would...we would proceed with a project and
expend quite a bit of money on design, uh, assessment plats and that sort of thing, and
then when it came to the l lt" hour, there were a lot of people at the podium and...and we
did not finish the project, we did not do it. So it's really a losing proposition for us. We
were spending money on design and not recovering anything, and then not getting a...a
product out of that. Um... so that was, the point at which we decided we were not going
to move forward without a petition signed by...by, uh, property owners. And, Eleanor,
do you want to talk a little bit about what you learned, uh, from other communities on
their petition process.
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Dilkes/ Well, I just...I asked the city attorneys, um, of the larger cities in Iowa kind of what
they've been doing with special assessments, and...and many, or several, just like us,
have kind of abandoned the whole process because of all the "fights" and, uh, needs for
super majorities or unanimous decisions by the city council if the...and um...the ones
that are still using them are using them if they get, um, a petition from 100% of the
abutting property owners. IJm, petitioning for the use of a special assessment. Um,
and...and the benefit of that is there's two resolutions. You do a preliminary resolution
at the very beginning of the process, and that only requires a majority of council. Um,
but you could structure something so that at that initial point, you knew at least at that
stage of the game that you had 100% or 75% or whatever participation by the abutting
property owners. And so you would have that information up front, rather than the city
initiating it, or the city initiating it on the petition of 25% or something like that, and then
you do that initial design work, you get the cost estimates, and then you have this
resolution of necessity that you need to do, and that's when you get the requirement for,
um, 6 out of 7 council people or if 75...or if property owners that represent 75% of the
assessments, um...object, then you need a unanimous council. So, that's what I'm
learning from other cities. Some cities continue to do, uh, Dubuque does special
assessment projects, um...still, um, with some frequency. Um, Waterloo recently did one
for downtown, but there are about four others who use them only if they have a petition
where 100% of the property owners are in support of it.
Hayek/ How much objection does it take, again? To...trigger...
Dilkes/ To get it...well, it's a...it's asuper-majority 6 out of 7 regardless. It's unanimous if you
have objection by 75...property owners who represent 75% of what's to be assessed.
Wright/ So in some cases that could be one or two property owners that carry the big club.
Champion/ So, we basically have no control over the condition of these alleys, is that what
you're saying, unless we're going to pay for it ourselves, which I'm not willing to do.
Bailey/ Or we have to have a very, very strong commitment, I mean, to...to an assessment
(several talking)
Champion/ And how do you.
Karr/ Tom, could you put on your microphone, please. Thank you.
Fosse/ I also included on...on the memo a list of...of, just an informal survey of alley
maintenance policies from other similar sized communities, and...and looking through
here, what struck me is...is the cities with the more generous policies also had casinos. I
don't know if there's a link there (laughter and several talking).
Champion/ We just need one of those!
Bailey/ Is that your recommendation?
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Fosse/ (laughter) No!
Dilkes/ You know, you have to remember too that a really strong commitment does not
necessarily move from one Council to the next.
Bailey/ Right, I agree. Get a lot done in two years and...move on.
Fosse/ So we're at a 20 year deadlock, uh, we can...continue as we are, or...(several talking)
Mims1 Are we...are we getting a lot of complaints, I mean, how often are you hearing from
people, or have they just given up that nothing's going to happen or...
Fosse/ Well...the majorities of our complaints are focused on a very few alleys. The really bad
ones, like you see here, and...and they're also seasonal. And when the problem goes out
in the spring, we get a lot of complaints on the gravel alleys, and...and more complaints
than normal on...on these paved alleys. We have a lot of ice build up in the winter, we
hear about that.
Dickens/ Where does it become a safety issue that...we have to do something about?
Fosse/ That's...that's where we went out and we put the gravel down there, at our expense,
because we were...we were concerned about that.
Mims/ Do we have any liability? In terms of the alleys?
Bailey/ Yeah. I mean, we require parking from some of these rental units along this alley. The
parking is off of the alley. Do we have any liability exposure if their access to the
parking creates problems?
Dilkes/ Well, I think we have some liability exposure. Alleys are part of the streets and public
ways over which we have control and have a maintenance obligation. Um, but
there...you know, it depends on the facts, the circumstances, etc.
Fosse/ Ideas? Besides casinos? (several talking)
Wright/ ...some of these alleys, the City needs to do as we were talking about with the brick
streets, and have an allotment to do, um, one of the worst alleys every year or two.
Champion/ I disagree!
Wright/ Getting the property owners to agree up and down an alley is almost impossible.
Hayek/ Well, will be even less possible it seems to me once we signal that we're willing to spend
GO money to do some.
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Champion/ I mean, people who (several talking) right! But no, I...I'm not willing to use...tax
dollars to repair all these terrible alleys, if the people who live on `em aren't willing to
repair them! I don't ask you to repair my driveway. That's basically their driveway...to
their garages. The City doesn't come in and repair my driveway when it needs replacing!
I have to replace it!
Wright/ Well, think of the scenario where, which we have a number of situations in Iowa City
where you might have...one side of the alley is owner-occupied houses, and these folks
are saying yes, we've got to fix the alley; we'll put up our share, and on the other side of
the alley, I might be speaking from personal experience here - I'm not sure - um, you
have one property owner with 75 parking spaces, accessed from the alley.
Bailey/ Right.
Wright/ They're not interested!
Bailey/ And the way Eleanor described it too is these alleys are part of our public ways in the
community, I mean, I...I mean, I see the challenge, but they are used in that way.
Mims/ To me if we were going to do anything, one thing I'd want to look at and consider doing
is some sort of acost-sharing, that we...that we do a special assessment for the property
owners to do a 50% of it, and maybe we pitch in 50, and I'm not sure 50/50's the right
way to go, but I...I'm with Connie. I'm not in support of spending taxpayer money of
everybody else in the city for things that those neighboring property owners should be
putting in a higher percentage for the maintenance of.
Bailey/ But we also know, I mean, cautionary makes a little bit more sense, because we also
know, in situations like this for example, it's not just the people who park off of this who
use this. This is...this one particularly is a public way. I mean, it's used quite frequently
by, well... a lot of people.
Fosse/ You also might think about it in two categories. One is if it's...if it's a rebuild, you could
consider acost-share, cause you know they've been assessed once before for it. Granted
it's a long time ago, um, but if it's an upgrade from a gravel to a paved alley, and usually
that's precipitated by a change in land use, going from single family to multi family, then
that may be more appropriate fora 100% assessment. And there's all sorts of different
ways you can go with this.
Champion/ But then if you have...let's say you have 100% assessment for a new alley because
there's a new multi family, it...is there a future tax to maintain that thing? We get back
to the same problem we're in now! We don't have any maintenance money for these
things! And that, no that alley is terrible! I drive down it frequently. I just drive way
over on the side.
Fosse/ I will tell you that...that the alleys, uh, that we would build today would be much more
stout than the ones that were built in the 60s and 70s because we see that they don't
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perform well in the long term, and I think part of that is that, um, there's...there's just a
lot of garbage truck traffic, and big dumpsters, and on...on wet days, those are some of
the heaviest axle loads on the roads, and they're out there on 6-inch pavements and they
do a lot of damage.
Hayek/ And (mumbled) Mike's point, these alleys were not built for massive multi-family
structures with scores of cars every hour driving up and down, you know...not built for
that. Is the...is the ability to object in the super-majority (mumbled) requirement, that's
State law, and it applies whether we do, uh, 100% assessment or some sort of cost-
sharing.
Dilkes/ Yes, in fact one of the...one of the attorneys I talked today said that, he said, you know,
it just got to the point where they were...they were compromising down to doing 10%,
you know, over the... so the abutting property owners were only doing 10%, you know,
that's how it ended up in th.e process. It's just a very difficult...it's avery difficult
process and it's set by State; code.
Fosse/ It's a chore...to do an assessment project. For the City Clerk's office, the City Attorney's
office (laughter) and Engineering!
Karr/ We...the last...I can recall we did...we did attempt, and it's been probably 25 years ago
and what happened is we did a cost sharing and we kept decreasing it because as soon as
the owners found out you were willing to share it, then instead of 50/50 it became 60/40
and then it became...and...we just haven't done one since.
Markus/ Gotta have the will to do it!
Mims/ Yeah.
Bailey/ Uh-huh.
Karr/ And to follow it through.
Champion/ Well I say we follow something through and get some of these alleys repaired, but
not with my property taxes;.
Markus/ Sounds like you have the will to do it! (laughter and several talking)
Bailey/ Will that be maintained, that's all I want to know!
Champion/ My attitude about it?
Mims/ Well, but I think also as Rick has said, I mean, if you're...if you're doing it today you're
going to do it to some different standards than what a lot of these were originally done,
and so hopefully the maim;enance and upkeep...
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Bailey/ I was talking about her commitment being maintained, not the alley! (laughter)
Mims/ Oh, okay! (laughter and several talking)
Hayek/ ...the commitment to encourage a petition signed by renters and then vetoed by land
(both talking)
Champion/ Wait, it doesn't do any good to have renters sign the petition!
Markus/ You can initiate the action yourself! The City can initiate this petition, correct?
Dilkes/ Yes! But...
Markus/ And you just have to have the will to stand up through this process of (both talking)
Hayek/ Oh, I see, I see! Okay.
Wilburn/ Historically speaking when we've needed super-majority or plus for a variety of
reasons, it falls apart.
Bailey/ The will goes away?
Markus/ But why would you pay for it as a city?
Champion/ I'm not going to.
Bailey/ I wouldn't.
Markus/ In your situation, you were talking about single-family homes all supporting it, and the
multiple against it. Right? So why wouldn't you approve it? As a voting...uh, Council
Member?
Wright/ I think this Council might! But another one might not.
Champion/ Well, we're still here!
Mims/ Well, get done what we can get done while we're here! (several talking) If we have the
will! I mean...
Champion/ Most of us...
Hayek/ Ross has got the smile of the ages on his face! (laughter and several talking)
Bailey/ Ross is waiting to see it happen! (laughter)
Hayek/ Been around the block! (several talking)
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Fosse/ Something I forgot to cover that somebody will bring up with you once...once we leave
is, why don't you just put an asphalt overlay on these. And...and the difference is, streets
have curbs so that you can put that extra three inches and the water can still fall down
and...and drain, whereas these are an inverted crown and if you raise them three inches,
then you've got... everything cannot drain to it anymore. Yep, and... and we did have a
situation where a...an alley south of Bowery was...was privately overlaid and...and they
just asphalted a guy's garage door shut (laughter) cause they're that close to the...to the
road. That was...that was ugly!
Champion/ Oh my gosh! That's hinny!
Wright/ It wasn't to him!
Mims/ Yeah, I was going to say, not to him!
Champion/ It would be funny to me, I mean, it wasn't funny to him, but it is kind of funny
(mumbled) done right.
Hayek/ Well, is there, uh, there appears to be a lack of interest in the City taking this on as an
expense. At least by a majority.
Champion/ Right, I mean, I...
Hayek/ (several talking) seems to be, okay.
Mims/ I'm not willing to. I'm willing to consider some cost sharing, depends on the
circumstances again, but I'm willing to consider that.
Hayek/ I might consider that as well, although I...I do think that, and this would require
consistency, for the indefinite future by multiple Councils, I mean, you've got to be...if
it's 50/50 it's got to stay that way. As soon as you signal a willingness to negotiate,
you've...
Wright/ Bargaining (several talking)
Bailey/ Well, and I'd start with special assessment.
Wright/ You what?
Bailey/ Start with 100% assessment, if that's the direction people want to go, because I mean the
vote requirement is the same. You know, the (several talking) yes!
Hayek/ Right (several talking)
Dickens/ ... if you're going to go through the same abuse.
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Champion/ So, can I clarify this. If we can get 25% of the property owners to agree to a special
assessment, we can vote it in.
Hayek/ No.
Dilkes/ Connie, it's just not quite that simple.
Champion/ Well, if 75%...
Dilkes/ No, it's...it's not necessarily 25% of the property owners. It's 7...it's...you have to
have...all of you have to agree if 75% or more...if property owners representing 75% or
more of the amount to be assessed objects. So if you have one big property owner
abutting the...the alley, ancl...you know, 75 of the assessment is going against that
property owner, they can...make it, require a unanimous vote.
Champion/ Oh, fine, yes. Fine.
Markus/ Property owners can petition to do it, but the City can initiate the process itself, without
the petition.
Champion/ Fine. I think we should do it!
Markus/ So the City looks at...at all of these different alleys and says, these are the priority
alleys we need to do. They initiate the process, we...we get through the different stages
and we get a petition. That says that we abject to this and maybe this certain percentage
statutory requirement. Then you get into a position where the super-majority, or the
unanimous provision, it's unanimous at that point, kicks in.
Champion/ Okay.
Markus/ So at that point, your will. has to be that you're going to stick to it and enforce this.
Champion/ That's easier than I thought!
Markus/ Well...
Champion/ I mean (several talking)
Markus/ ...not to do, it seems to me that it puts you at a much more defensible position that you
have a policy and that...you know, if they come in and object and you follow the
objection, then at least you have a process to do it. I think you're much more at a...the
City's at a much more defensible position at that point. Why they didn't do it.
(male)/ Right.
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Dilkes/ I...I think what we're not getting clear on though is whether it makes some sense to at
the initial, at the beginning of the process, you want to have a policy where you are not
going to start down that path, unless you have demonstration of, you know, 50% interest
or 75% interest or in the case of some of these other cities, 100% interest. Of the (several
talking) yes, so in other words you make that...that, you get that information at the front
end of the process rather than initiating the process, spending the money, getting to the
very end, and then being faced by property owners who are objecting.
Bailey/ Because we would design...if we initiate the process, we design, so we know what the
assessment is, correct? So we pay for design (several talking). Okay. So there is an
expense.. .
Markus/ Which is eligible to be reimbursed through the assessment...
Bailey/ Right... if we get to that point.
Markus/ But if you had a capital improvements program, and you said, for example, these are all
your alleys. Rick's prioritized which ones need to be done. You're scheduling them out
fora 5-year CIP and you say we're going to take three of these on every year.
Bailey/ We're going to spend the design...
Markus/ And we're going to spend the design and we're going to initiate this process. We're not
going to wait for petition. The procedure Eleanor's talking about is if petitions are
submitted. But if we initiated the process, okay? And said, we call the public hearing
and do all these things, and I know Eleanor may not think that that's really the way to do
it. It seems to me though that if you've adopted the CIP that you've started down the
process of the group collectively saying, "We are going to do these things. We're going
to stand up, and we're going to vote to do these." And, it seems to me that sitting around
as we have for the past 20-plus years, we haven't fixed many of these, and you all know
these things look and operate terribly! I mean, you've heard all the anecdotal evidence
from...from Rick on this stuff. Some of these things need to be fixed up! I think they do
serve a driveway kind of function, and that they should be assessed 100% to the
benefitting property. So...it seems to me if you put it in a plan, you folks decide, you
know, in the face of all the people coming up, you know, we've dealt with this back in
Michigan through assessment. We don't have these quirky super-majority, unanimous
provisions but I've seen them stand there and take a lot of heat and then vote it in and go
through it. Some of these things you have to do once in a while.
Bailey/ I mean, I `m going to put this on the table because I do believe this one...um, serves a
public purpose, as well as serves as driveways and parking lots for people. So, I think if
pressed, I might see more of a public purpose and have a hard time doing (both talking)
Champion/ Why would it be a public purpose?
Bailey/ Because, like a street...
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Hayek/ Cause you use it, Connie!
Bailey/ ...cause I use it! I don't live there. You use it. You don't live there, and so should your
streets in your...in your city be maintained by more than just people who live along them.
Dickens/ ...Mercy Hospital sometimes (both talking) John's Grocery and...
Bailey/ But my point is, I mean, should...if it's a public way, and I'm just asking this
philosophically. It's a public way, other people use it -should your streets be maintained
by more than just the people who live along them, and this is functioning in that way.
Champion/ (both talking) ...paid to have this paid, we'll never get an assessment done for an
alley. I mean, I agree that this is more of a...a public alley. It's like the downtown alley.
Bailey/ But that's the argument you're going to...we're going to hear, and I'm saying that I buy
into that argument, to a certain degree! So...
Mims/ Is there any way to categorize the alleys?
Bailey/ I don't know.
Fosse/ (mumbled) might be one.
Champion/ I mean, John's I think (mumbled) I mean, I know it's a constant problem for
Alberhasky's to deal with this alley. And they've tried to get stuff done with it with their
neighbors and have not been very successful.
Bailey/ Right.
Fosse/ And they've done a good job of taking care of their little piece.
Champion/ Yeah, it's totally paved!
Bailey/ Right!
Markus/ Well, and that's the other option I suppose. Once you start down a process and they see
that we're going to do it, if there's a commercial enterprise, commercial enterprise may
decide that they can do it cheaper than the, you know, if it's a significant...
Karr/ That's what I was going to mention, is that potentially a compromise of what, um, Rick
and Tom and Eleanor have said and the missing link that we didn't have say 25 years
ago, and that's some sort of a program, a plan, of putting them out there in your CIP, and
the...the owners would see it coming up and in the meantime they would be getting
estimates. They would know that theirs is scheduled three years out. Um, they might do
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some, um, looking at, uh, pricing themselves. It may initiate them doing it cheaper than
waiting for us to come in,1>otentially.
Champion/ That's a good point! I didn't...well, how do we do sidewalk assessments? I mean,
we go around and mark those sidewalks; we don't have any people voting on that. And if
you don't fix `em the City .fixes `em, so it'd be the same kind of thing! Fix your alley or
we're going to fix it!
Fosse/ That's very specific in the State code, the provisions that allow us to do that, and...and
our liabilities, if we don't have that program.
Champion/ Let's call `em sidewalks! (laughter)
Dilkes/ Each sidewalk square's only in front of one property.
Bailey/ Yeah!
Markus/ You know, I come at this a little bit differently maybe than most of you around the
table. And...and part of my perspective is being responsible ultimately for presenting a
balanced budget, and knowing you have concerns about tax rates and things like that.
Quite frankly you need to start looking at ways that you can fund things, quite frankly,
differently. The way you funded this is you just haven't built any of `em. Right? We've
kind of ignored this issue. But, you know, when you talk about these types of
improvements, you want to do something that is sustainable. Well, sustainable also
means how you finance these things, and to me, we can't sustain issuing GO bonds and
then just paying these things out of property taxes. In the long run I...I think you're
going to get a lot of pushback. You may not have to face that small chunk of people that
come in for each one of these assessments and you have to stand up to that issue on that
evening and vote for that, but you know, I...I stick myself out there on these because in
the long run this all either gets shifted to every taxpayer in town pays for these things, or
the benefitting property does. That's the whole theory behind special assessment, is that
the benefitting property pays for these things. Connie's example, I think, is pretty good.
You know...the driveway, even the driveway aprons I presume in this town, that the
adjacent property owner's paying for those things, right? I think that's the logical
extension, that these things service the rear of these properties, and the more you go to,
you know, new urbanism. The new urbanism policy was put in here, right? (several
responding) (mumbled) we keep expanding down that process, cause I see you doing
more of these things eventually, rather than fewer! That's the new model for
development, it's going to have more alleys.
Mims/ When we do special assessment, how long do people have to pay for it? I mean, I'm just
going back looking at the numbers, Rick, that you gave us, I mean, $170 or $181 to
construct or reconstruct a block. Okay, $181 if we're using special assessment. I mean,
obviously depending upon the alley...there's awhole range of property values along that
alley, but to come up with that $181,000, I mean...
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Fosse/ It's a 10-year period, and...
Mims/ So they have 10 years to pa:y it. Okay.
Fosse/ And the financing costs are included in the...in the special assessment.
Karr/ Yeah, the State sets the financing costs, we don't. So it's set right in the price.
Mims/ Okay. Well, that makes me feel better if they've got 10 years to pay for it. I had no idea
what.. .
Markus/ Let me...can I ask a question? In the State law, does it require an actual design, or can
you...can you, uh, have a spec for how we're going to build these things? Can that
become the basis for the estimate of cost? To me, if you have a spec, you...you can
extend the, uh, front footage as to how much these things are likely to cost. I mean, do
you actually have to do the physical construction design for each one of these before
you...call the hearing?
Fosse/ The...
Dilkes/ L .. go ahead.
Fosse/ I was going to say, certainly the unknown and variable from alley to alley's the
(mumbled)
Markus/ I understand that.
Fosse/ ...so that the paving component...could be fairly constant.
Markus/ I would think it would be. It'd be fairly accurate that you do an estimate on it.
Mims/ So basically what you're getting at, Tom, is that being able to keep our design cost to an
absolute minimum before ewe really get into the process.
Markus/ Right. Because ultimately the real cost that gets assessed is based on going out to bid
and having a bid come back. Right?
Fosse/ Yeah, and...and one other variable you'll find is...
Markus/ ...and we aren't going to do that, before they've actually decided something (noise on
mic)
Fosse/ No, we...we have an estimate and then part of that State process includes a...a 10%
contingency within that to cover...cover additional costs. The other variable in the alley
designs is how...how elaborate, do you phase construction and maintain access, you
know, some alleys only have one way in and out, others have two. Some have some
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places you can squirt out at mid-block, uh, but that...that can bring the price up. You'll
pay more for square yard on the complicated pours.
Dilkes/ This says, the code says the preliminary plans and specifications must only be in
sufficient detail to advise any person interested of the general nature, character, and type
of the improvement. (several responding)
Bailey/ So pretty broad.
Hayek/ Let's do something!
Mims/ Yep!
Wright/ I think...nothing has gone about as long as it can go.
Bailey/ The one thing that Susan mentioned is this different classifications of alleys, and I'm
trying to think of anything beyond this one, that I would classify, and I can't, but I was
wondering if there were thoughts on that. I mean, one that really serves as a... alleys that
serve really as a public way, and less as a driveway. Even (both talking)
Mims/ I think we, I mean, I think it's easy to say we start down a really slippery slope if we do
that, and...but I was just kind of throwing it out as a question (both talking)
Bailey/ ...worth discussing at this point, rather than when we get into the middle of a special
assessment hearing. (several talking)
Wright/ ...alongside the, uh, the Hamburg Inn.
Bailey/ Yeah!
Mims/ Well, but that's mostly for...a lot of that's parking for Hamburg Inn and those businesses
along there.
Bailey/ Yeah. The City accesses...our lot is there.
Markus/ Is it desirable that they're used in that fashion? Or had they just evolved into that?
Bailey/ I desire to use them in that: fashion, thank you! (laughter)
Hayek/ Do we need to get to that level of specificity? Can we...can we reach a consensus that
we'd like staff to put together some sort of...proposed program on (several talking).
Okay.
Fosse/ We'll be back to you with .a recommendation then.
Hayek/ All right. Thank you. (several talking)
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Wright/ It's finally off our pending list! (laughter)
Hayek/ All right. Roosevelt.
Roosevelt School Repurposin~ (IP4):
Dickens/ Mainly...this is the minutes from our last meeting. Probably has the most that we got
done, as far as some ideas of what to do with the building. Our concern mainly was...is
there any use for the City and... and... would we be interested in purchasing it, even at a
minimal amount, and what would we do with it. Uh, I know the...Dale called me. I
think the Fire Department went through it and took a tour and... said that it just is in such
condition that it really didn't (mumbled) and talking there was not a lot of other
departments that were...a whole lot, there wasn't a whole lot of interest in that...that
direction. We still are looking at the costs...right now the School District is trying to
keep it cost neutral.
Helling/ When Terry raised the question from the...from the Committee, um, I asked staff to just
(mumbled) see what, you know, what they might come up with, and I got two...two
responses. One was from t:he Fire Department as a possible training center, uh, they were
over there last Friday, looked at the building, looked at, you know, the configuration, the
condition of the building, um...taking into account I think too the location and their
conclusion... and I think primarily on the configuration of the building and the condition
of the building was that...that they weren't really interested for a training center, and I
think that's probably a good decision. I would have some concerns about the location,
interjecting that into a...into that type of a neighborhood. Um, the other thing that...that
came up, and Jeff brought this to...to my attention, uh, something that we've looked at in
conjunction with other...other, uh, considerations in the community, other community
development situations, and that's, um, called a arts...artist space, and Jeff agreed to stick
around and kind of give you the, you know, the 3-minute version of what...what those
are. They do exist in other communities and they do involve apublic/private, uh,
partnership in terms of funding.
Davidson/ I think we can even make this the minute and a half version probably, uh, we initially
scoped out Art Space, uh, 'when we were considering alternatives for the...the next multi-
use parking facility. We keep calling it the St. Pat's facility cause it's on the location of
the old, uh, school. Um... so we learned a little bit about it. I went an looked at a facility
that...there is actually a new construction in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, that they're doing as
part of a FDA project up there. Um, the way Art Space works is they...they're a private
organization. I think they started in the Twin Cities. Initially it was for conversion of old
downtown spaces, warehouse space, and that sort of thing into live/work spaces for
artists. They also then expanded it to include, um, sort of creative economy businesses
that also can incubate out of the facility. Um, Art Space is an organization that comes in,
uh, there's initially an expense of about $12,500 to do their initial evaluation. They kind
of bring together all the groups in the community that might be interested in it, um,
they...they're very experienced with financing these sorts of things, and they can even
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end up actually owning the facilities when it's all said and done, but the idea is to create,
um, as I said, artist spaces. They can either be live/work spaces or just, uh, studio spaces.
Uh, there are some projects where they...they have an affordable housing element as part
of them, and in fact, Steve :Long and Tracy just...are going to Omaha for some HUD
training, and they're going to stop in Council Bluffs and there's an old International
Harvester, uh, warehouse that, near...right in the edge of downtown, that's been
converted by Art Space into...it's, uh, I think it's got both the live/work spaces for artists,
and then the, it's got an affordable housing element. They're going to tour that. Um, and
you know, every financing...program is a little bit different. If there was interest in
going ahead here, I...I spoke to somebody who's experienced in working with Art Space,
and what they suggested was that you'd want to maybe consider Roosevelt School and
then maybe even a couple of other locations, maybe something in Riverfront Crossings,
something in Towncrest. They can do both new construction and they can do, uh,
renovation of old buildings, uh, but you know, you might want to, since...since you'd be
going to the expense of the evaluation anyway, just evaluate all potential locations and
then, um, you know, see if there was enough interest and enough possibilities for
financing to go ahead and do it. Because...because the school, Roosevelt School, will be
used next year as an elementary school as well because they haven't started the
Crossing's school yet, and you know, we've got plenty of time, but there would be the
$12,500 initial evaluation expense, and what happens is out of that process, if you decide
you want to go forward, then you start focusing on the specifics of, okay, are we
interested in a...in a live/work space for artists or exactly what the...and then there's a
more detailed evaluation that actually produces a business plan basically and a financing
plan, and that...that comes at an expense of more like $30,000, but that's phase two, and
you don't ever have to advance to phase two if you don't ever come out of phase one.
Helling/ We wanted you just to have some idea of what that...what that alternative is. I think the
issue, obviously Art Space is something you can look at in conjunction with, as Jeff said,
Riverfront, or River Crossing...River (several talking) or...or any other development.
Um, the issue here tonight is that particular building, and um, I don't know how
definitive an answer they need, um, but I think in conjunction with the study of the...the
need and the application of Art Space we'd also want to do something more detailed with
the building, uh, initially it: looks like it needs both exterior and interior work, just to
be...just to be weather-tight.
Dickens/ And boiler work.
Helling/ Pardon me?
Dickens/ Boiler.
Helling/ Boiler, uh, and then again need to have the interior, the renovation that would be
necessary to convert it to another use. Um...so there is con....some concern that...that
while we might be able to get the building for a minimal price, um, there would be
substantial expense in...in making it (several talking) types of issues...of uses that we're
talking about.
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Champion/ I like the idea of the Art Space, but not there. And I look at that building and I'm
irritated they're closing it, but they are so I can't do anything about that. But that is
prime land. It's a huge tract of land. Now, I think this is...kind of nonsense. I would
think they would sell that to a private developer, and let's get it back on the tax rolls!
That is a lot of space!
Dickens/ There has been little or no interest (both talking). They put it out and they've only
received one...
Champion/ They have to demolish. the building if they want to sell the land.
Bailey/ I'm interested in looking at some kind of repurposing, I mean, as they're...as they are
pursuing, um, yeah. That':> a large tract of land that would probably be developed into a
huge multi-family, which the adjacent area's zoned that way. But we are investing in that
neighborhood too, and we :have concerns about stabilizing that neighborhood, so my
question is, what...what invests in that direction? And I think this Art Space idea is
compelling, or I mean, I was talking to a small business today and the more I got to
thinking about this space, it might be a space that they would be interested in if there
were some...some additional information about what it would cost to repurpose it...for
what, I mean, they would certainly, in their facility, love to use a... an elementary sized
gym for sure. So, I think that there are possibilities that would serve the neighborhood
that would also put it on the tax base. I'm not interested in owning it long-term. But I'm
interested in pursuing...we don't have a lot of build...buildings to repurpose. I mean, a
lot of rural Iowa is repurposing their school buildings for sure. Um, we don't have a lot
of buildings like this to...to be able to seize this opportunity so if there's an opportunity
to evaluate its feasibility, um, and we don't have a of live/work spaces, believe me. I
mean, I've looked at Des Moines and they're doing great stuff in this, and we are not!
And...we're supposed to be this creative class, creative economy place, and we don't
have these...we don't have these attractor...resident/commercial facilities. For artists,
for, um, people who work from home, so I think there's some opportunity here, not to
own it long-term though. X don't...want the City to own another older building, um, I
want other people to own it (laughter). In condos and commercial and...
Wright/ Well, I agree with you, there's very little opportunity in Iowa City for live/work spaces,
but we have a lot of peoplf;, I think, who would utilize something like (both talking)
Bailey/ I do too! I mean (both talking)
Wright/ I can think of three or four off the top of my head.
Bailey/ I...I meet with them, you :know, people weekly who are looking for different kinds of
facilities or different kinds of living situations so they can do, I mean, think of the Paper
Nest, I mean, she was doing her letter-press printing in her house, I mean, and we have
people like this throughout the city who are not going to rent retail space in downtown or
any of our other areas.
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Hayek/ So who pays for that? I mean, you know, if...if...
Bailey/ We look at the...I think we do a feasibility study. We get to the place, we see if there are
developers or engage other people who might be interested in coming in and doing the
work. We do not...or we do it through economic development public/private. I do...I do
not see this as a public project, for sure, except to spur the possibility.
Dickens/ Our next...our next meeting is Monday, and Steve, uh, Murley's going to be there at
that meeting, and so we'll ]lave a little more idea where the schools are coming from too.
After that meeting I' 11 provide you with all the information too (mumbled)
Bailey/ Well, and if we would do a feasibility study, could we, I mean, I think we should look at
Riverfront, I mean, we have another nice building in Riverfront Crossings, the...the one
that's on the sewer treatment plant, I mean, it's a beautiful brick building. I mean, that's
what people look for, what are the possibilities, how are we thinking about...
Hayek/ If we can leave that building under our flood funding (both talking)
Bailey/ Sure, sure, sure, but...you know, looking at feasibility, looking at interest, there is
interest and...nobodies tapping into it, but you know, I...I guarantee five to seven years,
they'll be hot and...people are getting it in other communities. They're getting it in
Dubuque, and they're getting it in Des Moines, and they're not getting it here! I
mean...it's just...
Dickens/ There would be some zoning changes though in that area.
Davidson/ Yeah, it's going to havf; to be rezoned anyway cause it's zoned Public right now. Uh,
Matt, to answer one of your questions, uh, and Tom also clarified with me just now
that...that the projects are generally privately held when they get done. They're not
owned by the municipality. Now they're not all taxable, because there's frequently...it's
not uncommon for there to be a private, non-profit status, um, so they aren't taxable, and
they're generally housing tax credit projects, um, because there's usually aloes-mod
income angle that they qualify, uh, for those, so that's...that's aprinciple means of
financing, I mean, and that's what part of Art Space, the organization, works out is all
that financing of, uh, if they use tax credits.
Bailey/ It wouldn't have to be that. model. It could be a live, a commercial and residential model,
right, like (both talking)
Davidson/ ...comes out of the evaluation, uh, the evaluation, which is a public process, by the
way.
Champion/ I can't imagine puttin€; enough money in that building.
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Dickens/ So what would you like me to take back to them Monday? (laughter) The Art Space
and the possibility, or feasibility, to (mumbled)
Bailey/ Well, what have they done in that direction, I guess I would be curious about any, to
what degree they've looked at these organizations that are out here?
Wilburn/ Is it possible to, uh, make sure that, you mentioned economic development, uh,
funding. Is it possible to get them to (mumbled) so that any others in that group that may
be interested in looking at them themselves or any of the community groups that came
forward that want to see something so that they can...that might spur some ideas, at...at
least if they were to try and do something privately, then ask for some type of support
from the...from the City.
Champion/ I like the idea of the work/live space. I'm just not so sure that building is...
Bailey/ Well, and that's what a feasibility study would tell us, that if we can get a feasibility
study in town, and there are other possibilities to look at, you know, get some scale and
spend $13,000 and figure out some opportunities.
Hayek/ Does $13 get you this study...the 12 or $13,000?
Bailey/ The initial.
Davidson/ Yeah, the initial study's $12.5.. .
Hayek/ And uh...would that be something we would share the expense with?
Davidson/ Well, I mean, that's something Terry (several talking) The $12.5 includes multiple
focused groups, meetings with potential developers, review of available sites, etc. And
then.. .
Hayek/ Maybe we express some (both talking)
Davidson/ ...Terry to take back.
Hayek/ ... a shared, uh, study. Shared cost, uh, analysis.
Davidson/ Yeah, I mean, if Terry can get some other funding commitments, we' 11 be happy in
my department to, you know, pursue...pursue it if you want.
Wright/ I think it's worth investigating.
Mims/ Sure.
Bailey/ (mumbled)
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Hayek/ It's a big facility. It's a...i:mportant decision.
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Davidson/ Yeah, they like schools too because they can...they can reconfigure the gyms into
performance spaces.
Bailey/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ (mumbled) public facility falls into that level of disrepair, uh...
Bailey/ That's another (mumbled) (several talking)
Champion/ I think it was deliberate (several talking)
Hayek/ Okay, uh, so you have the direction you need, Jeff?
Helling/ I think so. Terry's going to go back to the committee and...talk about the possibility of
a joint study? (several talking) And...share the costs, yeah.
Hayek/ Okay. Well, it looks like we're (several talking). Mobile vendor regulations.
Mobile Vending Regulations (IPS of 12/2/10):
Helling/ Yes! You received a memo from Kathy and I, um, basically the situation that has
existed or that continues to exist, um...essentially what there...we're spending a lot of
time (several talking) to administer this whole (laughter and several talking) that would
be great! If you, if everybody agrees with that (several talking). Kathy's here if you
have any questions of (several talking and laughing)
Mims/ I said I like the recommendations!
Champion/ Me too! Just let them sell whatever they want!
Hayek/ Uh, Regenia, you seem to be the voice of opposition on this. What are your thoughts?
Bailey/ Well, I mean, I'm assuming that vendors will be allowed to sell any and all food
products? Okay, cause food is mention...is missing from that.
Champion/ Oh, probably cause...
Helling/ Your ordinance would allow vendors to sell something other than food. But, nobody
ever has.
Bailey/ I would like to be very specific about it being food, myself. I mean, unless...
Dickens/ Stick with food.
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Mims/ Yeah.
Helling/ We can make that change.
Bailey/ I mean, you want...people to get vending permits for jewelry sales, I mean, I don't know.
Dickens/ We already had the lady walking through with her boards, so...
Helling/ We have mobile vendor or, uh, ambulatory vendors.
Bailey/ We do!
Helling/ Ironically, to let you know how long it's been since we did this, uh, one of the thoughts
was somebody might want to sell like magazines and tobacco products. (laughter) Way
back! Uh, when that wouldn't have been acceptable.
Dickens/ Stick with food, cause th;at's regulated.
Helling/ Yeah, and...and that's (several talking) other than food or beverages. Non-alcoholic!
Bailey/ And then, the only thing is remove the required hours, I mean, I think it needs a little bit
more structure. I'm not...I'm not desiring overstructure, but allow vendors to operate
when they wish. Well, it...I mean, could we say a minimum number of hours per week
or month or something? It just seems...I don't know.
Helling/ ...so difficult to regulate to...to know...
Champion/ How many hours they"ve been there!
Helling/ ...when they're down there, and self-reporting (several talking) uh, that's something we
found out, and when you get... get feedback from time to time from other vendors about
that vendor who is supposed to be there from 11:30 to 1:30 and...
Bailey/ It's highly competitive and so why wouldn't I just get a mobile vendor permit so you
couldn't. I'll get one of the five so my competitor can't. But I'll never be down there. I
just have a permit.
Wright/ Then you don't have a competitor!
Bailey/ Well...
Wright/ If you're never there!
Bailey/ I mean, I don't know it just seems too unstructured, I mean, I thought that we came up
with this idea of having mobile vendors because they added to an ambiance of a
downtown. If we have permits but they're never used then...it just...
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Mims/ I guess my thought would be to go with the recommendations and if...if we find that
they're never there, then I think we need to relook at the whole vendor situation.
Bailey/ Okay, but...we don't do...we do minimal inspections, so how are we going to ascertain
that?
Helling/ Well, we can certainly...
Mims/ Midnight!
Helling/ (mumbled) on their downtown walking patrols, and tell us if they're there or not. Some
of them will only be there at night, late at night.
Bailey/ Well, and I understand (several talking) and I don't have any problem with that, but if
you're going to have a permit, I mean, for some purpose, I think you should be down
there on occasion!
Mims/ Well, you know (several talking)
Bailey/ Especially if we're reducing the number of permits to five. I...I don't know. I...I like
the mobile vendors. I think that if...if it's something that...
Mims/ If it's profitable, they'll be there. I mean, that's the way I look at it. (several talking)
Hayek/ I think, I mean, your concern...is legitimate, that theoretically somebody could try to
acquire (both talking) squeeze out the competition, but...maybe, you know, wait to see if
we see that kind of (both talking)
Bailey/ I think...I think that that's completely...that's fine with me. I just...L..you know, no
regulation, I don't know...then why...I don't know.
Helling/ It wouldn't be no regulation and...and...
Bailey/ About hours, I mean.
Helling/ Oh, okay.
Bailey/ Yeah. No, I know you're not going to let them serve, you know, things that aren't health
inspected...
Helling/ And Kathy...Kathy may be able to speak to this better than I can because she...she has
more direct communications with the vendors, but um...typically, uh, they'll be there
during certain events like Arts Fest, Jazz Fest, they'll be there during the day. Uh, Friday
evenings they'll be there early for Friday Night Concert, anything that's going on that
brings people downtown, but on a normal day, uh, you may not...you don't find `em
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down there in the evening now. They were really taking a hit during the evenings, and so
we (several talking) um, and now they're...they're experiencing the same thing, and
originally as... as we indicated in the memo, they were the only outdoor venue when they
started, and (several talking) and now you have sidewalk cafes all over the place and uh,
they're just less in demand during the day and most of `em are saying that they...and, this
is not unlike other businesses, but they basically have to subsidize their, uh, bosses during
the day with their profits at: night.
Bailey/ Right. Well and, there are a wider range of food choices downtown, um, at different
price points, and when the vendors started, you know, lunch was typically you know not
as, not such a bargain as you could get from the vendors and now you can. Okay.
Champion/ But I think all businesses that regulate their hours, when they're going to sell what
they're selling, I mean, I'm certainly not going to be open at the 2:00 in the morning,
cause I'm probably not going to have any customers, but I mean I think you really have
to give them (several talking) okay!
Helling/ And we are...we are raising it to $1,000 a year for the...for the price, so nobody's likely
to get a permit and then not (several talking)
Bailey/ As long as it says "food products."
Hayek/ So with the food modification, we're good to go?
Champion/ Uh-huh.
Hayek/ Good to go. Info packets.
Helling/ Kathy says thank you (laughter)
Champion/ Glad you came, Kathy!
Mims/ Thank you for (several talking)
Champion/ But you don't have to deal with the taxicabs, do you? That's Marian! (laughter)
Karr/ Yeah, and some of these same arguments, I'm going to remember and try and (laughter and
several talking)
Bailey/ I think we've...we're done with taxis now, right? (laughter)
Hayek/ See you, Kathy.
Champion/ Thanks, Kathy!
Info Packet Discussion (Dec. 2):
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Hayek/ Uh, Info Packets. We've talked about most of the stuff. Anything else on the Info
Packet? (several talking) Council time?
Council Time:
Wright/ I have a question. It just happened that I (mumbled) and it's a night when I could ask it,
and I have to preface my question by saying, I'm Jewish, so don't get down on me for
that...that angle here. The Menorah that shows up on the ped mall every year...
Bailey/ Eleanor can tell (mumbled) your annual (mumbled)
Wright/ Well, I just...I...part of me questions the...something with a religious symbol on public
property, um, that it shows up every year when we don't have...I imagine a Koresh
would not be welcomed on the ped mall, for example.
Dilkes/ If, uh, entity came in wanting to put a Koresh there under the terms of our code, which
allows it there for 30 days, throughout the course of the year, yes they could.
Wright/ Oh, okay, that's good! Then I have a follow up question to that. Is there any way to ask
them to make...to have a little bit of an aesthetic standard (laughter)? Cause this thing is
patched up with duct tape and (laughter) and weighted down with cement blocks and
sandbags and it desperately needs a paint job.
Dilkes/ I...you go ahead (laughter) and talk to them about that. We...we wouldn't do that.
Dickens/ They got it up about two days late too!
Champion/ Yes!
Wright/ I wondered about that, yeah.
Champion/ It was a little late! (several talking)
Dickens/ I think they had to get it working again.
Champion/ I have...
Wright/ Duct tape was a nice touch!
Champion/ I have a duct tape coffee mug! Um, I have two small things. Um, because I've been
out at Bud's a lot, does anybody go to Bud's to get your tires fixed (mumbled) um,
because my daughter's had a couple accidents with my car, um...and Scott Boulevard,
you can be backed up thirty and forty cars on Scott Boulevard and Muscatine, when you
try to come home from Bud's! And I wonder if we've done any traffic studies there. It
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seems to me there's a lot of trucks. I think it warrants a stoplight...to get those trucks
moving, instead of moving two, three feet at a time!
Hayek/ Bring Fosse back!
Fosse/ Yes, that intersection does (;mumbled). Uh, during peak hours, and that's one of the
projects you'll have presented to you in the capital program this year. Uh, typically we
budget $120,000, $180,00() a year for traffic signals, and (mumbled) that will require the
addition of a center turn lake, similar to what we did at the intersection of Court and
Scott. So that's about a $600,000 project. It'll be on your platter in January.
Bailey/ It doesn't warrant lights! (laughter)
Champion/ I've been out there several different times of the day and there's a big backup on
Scott Boulevard, um, well, not...maybe not forty cars, but...
Dickens/ Light don't take care of every problem, cause First Avenue's that bad any more, I mean
(mumbled) other areas have had lights already (several talking)
Champion/ The other thing I wanted to ask is (several talking) maybe we can ask Parks and Rec
if they've talked at all about natural bur...burial areas in the cemetery. Natural burial
sites. Where you're not...where you're just wrapped in a sheet and buried (several
talking) no coffin, no...nolle of those concrete tombs that keep you around forever and
ever. Cedar Rapids has one.
Hayek/ So would you like us to look into that, we have our resident expert over there, Marian.
Champion/ (laughter) No, I'm...no, I'm wondering if (several talking and laughing) because it's
kind of a growing trend and...and uh, it seems very valid to me. You don't have to be
embalmed (several talking)
Bailey/ We have requirements in our...
Karr/ We do have requirements. Now whether they're...I'd have to check to see what they're
based on. You're saying Cedar Rapids has it?
Champion/ Yeah.
Karr/ We'd have to check to see if...(several talking)
Champion/ I don't know. I don't know, but...I know Lensing is offering that kind of burial.
They must be putting those bodies somewhere!
Karr/ Which leads way to why Matt thought I know where the dead bodies are buried. Got it!
(laughter) I'll check...I'll check with the cemetery.
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Champion/ But I think it's worth looking into. It's a going trend and not everybody wants to be
encased in something forever.
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Champion/ Me too, but (mumbled) (several talking)
Hayek/ Any other Council time? (laughter)
Bailey/ Now that we're thinking about death!
Mims/ I would just mention, um, last week we had the, Marian, you might have to help me out -
the CEO/RWIB board meeting. It's Workforce Development is a big part of this, okay. I
go twice a year, so I know something about it. Uh, the...Workforce Development is in
Eastdale Plaza, and Voc Rehab is in Eastdale Plaza, and Goodwill is in Eastdale Plaza,
and the whole Workforce Development in the State of Iowa is changing and going to an
integrated model, and they have...let me tell you, there are so many different funding
streams and programs under Workforce Development, it is literally an alphabet zoo! Um,
but they have gone to an integrated model in Cedar Rapids, in Lindale Plaza or Lindale
Mall, um, on the Younker's side, and I was in there the other day for the meeting and it is
an incredibly improved model that the State is moving towards. People who are looking
for jobs or upgrading or need skill assessment, computer training, whatever it might be,
they basically come in, they become a member, and then they can do kind of a one-stop
assessment and then kind of get them directed out to different people. They are trying to
move towards an integrated model here in Iowa City, and one of the things they're
looking at is space, and so one of the things I asked them about, um, you know, was were
they happy at...at Eastdale, and they are. They like being at Eastdale. They like the
location. They're on the bus route. They're close to Kirkwood, etc. Um, but they are
looking at maybe trying to shift around that...that is all condominiums in Eastdale Plaza
now. And so they're working with... some of them have the same landlord, and so
they're trying to work with maybe shifting some spaces and getting more square footage
so they can do more of this integration, um, so I just wanted to make the Council and
staff, whatever, aware of it, cause I just...and I'm...I offered to be on a subcommittee to
help them as they work through this integration process so that if there's any assistance or
input or anything from the City that maybe we could help with in any way, I wanted them
to make sure that they let me know so I could bring it back to staff and Council if there
was any kind of coordination that we could help with. Um...I think they could use
ultimately more square footage than what they have, but um...it's a...it's a good
direction that the State is going in in terms of integrating these services. So...
Hayek/ Keep us posted!
Mims/ Yeah, I will.
Hayek/ Anybody else?
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Budget Priorities:
Okay. Budget? Coming up! (laughter) Pending work session issues?
Summary of Pending Work Session Issues (IP6):
Mims/ Coming up!
Higgins/ I do have one thing I'd like to bring up, um...the, I've been hearing a lot about, um,
tenant, uh, renter tenant relations, and uh, that's kind of one thing that I'd like to discuss
in the future. Um... so it's one of the biggest complaints that I hear from current students,
I mean, besides the 21-ordinance, which I don't think we're going to revisit any time
soon (laughter). So I thought I'd move on to this one! (laughter) But, um...so I...I've
reviewed what other cities do and what Iowa City does. Iowa City doesn't have, um,
ordinances that kind of...that address it beyond what the State statutes say. So um...I've
kind of...I've drafted a proposal with some basic um, protections that would be extended
to...to tenants, and um, I'd like to...to discuss the particulars of this proposal with each
of you individually and then, um, you know, if...if there seems to be some support or if
you guys have advice on that, I would take that and revise the proposal, turn it over to the
City staff, have them give their input, and then maybe address it...I spoke with Marian
about it earlier. Um, she said maybe late January, after, um, the budget stuff.
Karr/ So (mumbled) you just want to at this point add it to the pending list until after you talked
to Council, and then (both talking)
Hayek/ I think we're open to that, as long as...I would encourage you to meet with...with
Eleanor's office as well to make sure your read syncs up with our read, her read, and get
any suggestions they might have.
Mims/ I mean, I know that...I had two of my kids went to school in Kansas, and let me tell you,
the state laws in Kansas are a whole lot better than here! In terms...well, number one, for
example, in the state of Kansas, and I don't think this is just a Lawrence law. I'm pretty
sure it was under state law, they have to...you have to do a joint walk through between
the tenant and the landlord within three days of moving in to do an inspection sheet, and
if they don't do it within three days, the landlord cannot keep your deposit, no matter how
much damage you do to the apartment. I mean, just...certain things like that. We...we
end up with an issue of living on a hill, flood water in a basement apartment, I mean, had
to get him moved out, I mean, kind of situation. Let me tell you, they're public people
for housing were a great help in informing me of the state law in Kansas.
Bailey/ And I know that student, um, Student Government did take this to the legislature, was it
two years...
Champion/ ...got that one thing passed about deposits.
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Bailey/ Yeah, but...but I think, yeah. If there's something we could do locally, because I don't
think it's going to move state (several talking) I mean, let's get it on the pending and see
what.. .
Mims/ ...and I don't know what we can do at the local level, what the State allows us to do. So,
that's why I would agree with what Matt said is to talk to Eleanor maybe sooner rather
than later so...but yeah!
Dickens/ Do we need to add the Roosevelt back on to the, say the January 10th work session, or
do you have a group of things that you add on?
Karr/ We can certainly put it on the pending list. January 10th is your next meeting and it's a
combined meeting.
Dickens/ Oh, that's a combined meeting!
Karr/ Yes, it's a work session and a formal. That's entirely up to you.
Hayek/ (several talking) just use your discretion, when you think it needs to be back on there.
Dickens/ I get the minutes from the next meeting, which is Monday night, I'll forward those into
the next packet.
Karr/ We can always put it in the packet and you can talk about it under packet discussion, as
well, cause the...it'd be in the packet. (several talking)
Bailey/ And you're not going to lose track of the issue, so...you'll keep...you'll make sure we
will!
Dickens/ I'm trying to! (laughter)
Helling/ As I indicated last time, I...put some dates on these. Hopefully they can sync with your
priorities. We've got ICAD presentation, will probably be at a formal meeting, fairly
short, and uh, be on TV that way, and I think that's their preference. So if everything else
works, we'll try to keep that, those dates as much as possible.
Community Events/Council Invitations:
Hayek/ Okay. Upcoming events, Council invites? The Wreaths Across America event is
Saturday, 10:30 or 11:00. I'll attend. Typical jam-packed schedule. They want to fly
over (laughter)
Mims/ At what altitude?
Hayek/ Yeah! (laughter and several talking)
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Wright/ (mumbled) (several talking)
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Hayek/ Any other invites? (several talking) All right, meeting schedules? (mumbled) All right.
See you tomorrow night. Good work tonight!
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