HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-05-16 TranscriptionMay 16, 2011 City Council Formal Session Page 1
Council Present: Hayek, Bailey, Dickens, Mims, Wilburn, Wright, Champion
UISG: Patel
Staff Present: Markus, Helling, Dilkes, Karr, Fosse, Ford, Mansfield, Johansen
Hayek/ Okay, why don't we get started with tonight's work session. Welcome, everyone.
Karr/ Mr. Mayor, if I could just interject. We have a couple of changes to the consent calendar
I'd like to just read into the record if I could. Number one, we're going to be deferring
indefinitely Item 3d(3), and it'll come back to you at a later time. That is the top of page
three, it's the, um, uh, Waterworks Prairie Park Flood Mitigation. It'll come back to you
later. We're going to be, uh, adding to the agenda a resolution setting a public hearing for
June 7th on a proposal to convey asingle-family home located at 408 Fairchild Street.
Okay? And finally, we' 11 be asking you to leave for separate consideration, uh, 3 e(1), the
Jazz Festival and the Arts Fest licenses. Typically, we do separate consideration for all
new licenses. These are not renewals. These are new. So, we'll just ask you to delete it
from the consent calendar, but you can take it up right after that as a separate item. Those
are the three changes.
Champion/ And that was two and what else?
Karr/ Um, you've got the Public Works Prairie Park.
Champion/ Right. Okay.
Karr/ Deferred indefinitely.
Champion/ Right.
Karr/ You're adding 3d(5), public hearing
Champion/ Yeah, I've got that.
Karr/ ---and you're deleting for separate consideration e(1), Arts Fest/Jazz Fest.
Champion/ Okay. Thank you.
Hayek/ Thanks, Marian.
Agenda Items
ITEM 18. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION OF
PROPERTY INTERESTS NECESSARY FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE
FIRST AVENUE GRADE SEPARATION AND DRAINAGE PROJECT.
Mims/ I just had a ...sorry, Marian, my microphone here. I had a question on Number 18, uh, I
talked to Dale today. This has to do with the, uh, resolution for First Avenue and the
train, uh, I had a phone call over the weekend, and I think there's people in that area that
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have, just some concerns about how this is moving forward and what's happening. And
for me personally, having been on the Council a relatively short period of time, I think, to
get kind of some history of what's happened there and how we see this going forward
and getting, kind of getting it in the public record, I think would be really helpful. I mean,
some of the concerns brought up I have no idea if they're legitimate or not, but just to
kind of address those in a public forum. They're, they're concerned about safety with
derailments; they're concerned about flooding issues that they already have and they
think that might be worse, uh. I, I just think it'd be helpful if, so I'm not sure where we
want to go with it, but, I have a feeling that's why Rick's here.
Fosse/ Well, we, we've started meeting with the property owners in the area to talk about the
project and we had apre-design meeting a couple of years ago, but that was prior to the
flood, so lost some momentum there. But one of the things that's becoming apparent right
now is it's been a long time since we've done a project in a commercial corridor, and that
brings with it special difficulties for us. That is, you know, when you work in a
residential area it's an inconvenience for people. But when you work in a commercial
corridor it's an inconvenience and it costs them money because of the construction
disruption. If you've, you've watched what's gone on in Coralville the past year on their
First Avenue project it's a big deal for the businesses. So they have concerns about the,
the project in general, uh, the outcome, and then also during, and that's part of what
we're working through right now. Um, but I, I would, uh, be happy to, I think it might be
a good thing to get this on a work session agenda and, and talk with you all about, uh, the
project, what it entails and how it fits with the, the Lower Muscatine Project, the
Sycamore Intersection Project, and then there's some drainage work that we'll be doing
in the area that's connected to all three. And that drainage work, I would describe as
making the best of a bad situation there. The drainage is not good. And there's no way to
make it perfect, but we're, we're gonna do our best there. Um, so, is there, is there
interest in having this---
Bailey/ Can I ask a question, Rick?
Fosse/ Sure.
Bailey/ Uh, the Predesign Meeting, I recall when this started, discussing this project with the
Predesign meeting, correct me if I'm wrong, that a lot of the, um, commercial owners
were very excited about the project, many years ago. Has there been change of ownership
or, um, has something changed? Because there was some initial, really, quite a lot of
excitement and support. We got letters of support, as I recall, when we went to D.C.
Hayek/ That's right.
Bailey/ Um, so .. .
Mims/ I would say that what was indicated to me was certainly not lack of support.
Bailey/ Okay.
Mims/ They definitely want the project. But, it's concerns about some of the, how it's gonna be
done, how it's gonna impact them, um---
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Wright/ How many lanes are being closed at one time, I know. I got a call today too.
Bailey/ So just what Rick touched upon, about how are we going to address the closure of our
businesses or disruption to our business during the construction?
Mims/ yeah, I, I think they have some questions about the whole design aspect of the, of it, and
so I think to, just to kind of address those so that, one, so we can answer questions as
people, you know, so we have better background information, because when somebody
calls me I've like, got no clue. You know, and---
Bailey/ Right. Because we've, I mean, we've lived with this, I think I've lived with this my
entire time on Council. Yeah.
Mims/ Right, and so, I think, I mean, I would certainly support the idea of putting it on a work
agenda.
Champion. Be a good idea.
Bailey/ I also think, I agree, I'd like to support that too. I also agree that we should error on the
side of more information and more public meetings and more public input. I think that
that's probably the direction you were talking.
Champion/ Yeah.
Bailey/ Because a commercial corridor is very different.
Mims/ Huge project.
Bailey/ And I think that we need to learn from our neighbors around us with commercial
projects.
Wright/ And another, they said they were a little surprised it was on our agenda already, this part,
because they thought they were still like six months out and so they'd just had the
meeting and a little surprised to see it on here already. And I think that was part of their,
why they jumped.
Fosse/ Well, I think a part of their concern, they thought this was the public hearing already---
Bailey/ Right.
Fosse/ --they didn't realize this was just related to the property acquisition. So, I think we have
that straightened out now.
Wilburn/ Well, it sounds like putting on our work session will help, just get everybody on the
same page---
Bailey/ Let's lay out the timeline.
Wilburn/---address the logistics of and the mechanics of how we actually implement it, um, and
to get that momentum going again, because I mean, you're right, it's all been, uh, the vast
majority, positive support. In fact over at---
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Bailey/ Five ...six years .. .
Wilburn. ---uh, Southeast Junior High, they still have posted in their faculty room the, the
diagram from that meeting in hopes that the project would, would come off.
Bailey/ (can't hear)
Fosse/ And you're right, Regenia, that was a very good meeting and we got a lot of positive
feedback from everybody in the corridor then.
Bailey/ Right, and I think we need to ... yeah, I think we need to go, maybe a do-over, or
something, I don't know.
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Fosse/ It may be necessary. I, I think the first step is to share it all with you, get you all informed,
and then we, we may do another public meeting on it as well.
Bailey/ And, maybe if we can create some, yeah, well, we can talk about it at the work session.
Hayek/ So, the decision to get this information to us and to the public via work session, does it
impact the timing of Item 18 from our ... or are we, or do we move forward?
Bailey/ Oh, let's not.
Dilkes/ Can I ... I just wanted to say something about the resolution authorizing acquisition of
property. This, we need to do this because the property acquisition process takes a very
long time. The minimum amount of time is six months, and it, when you're talking about
acquisition of commercial interests, those are clearly a lot more complicated. So, this just
enables us to get started on that process. Get the plats prepared---
Bailey/ It enables conversations, right?
Dilkes/ ---get the, start having the appraisals done, start having those conversations.
Wilburn/ Great. And that'll, and that in itself about appraisals, etc., etc., will give folks some
more tangible stuff about impact on them, I suspect.
Dickens/ It gives them time to give input. That six months that it takes to get that put together.
Bailey/ And when we put it, when we have it on the work session, then can we make a special
effort to make sure those in that corridor know that is, is that too much or, I mean?
Hayek/ Oh yeah. And, and maybe we ought to, you know, tally up the list of affected property
owners and directly contact them about the work session.
Bailey/ That's what I was thinking, yeah.
Fosse/ Matt, I know who they are.
Champion/ I'm sure you do.
Wright/ Cause they know who we are. (Laughter)
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Hayek/ Okay, thanks.
Mims/ Thank you.
Hayek/ Other agenda items?
ITEM 14. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING, AUTHORIZING AND
DIRECTING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK TO
ATTEST A CONTRACT FOR THE PERFORMANCE OF CONSULTING
SERVICES BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND
DIVARIS REAL ESTATE, INC., FOR A STRATEGIC ASSESSMENT OF
DOWNTOWN IOWA CITY AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE
ENHANCEMENT OF RETAIL OPPORTUNITIES.
Wright/ I just had a question on Item 14, I think there's a, clarification, there seems to be an
omission there. In the scope of services, this is the (can't hear) under Exhibit B, Section
3, we have, uh, the consultant will use three different research Internet sites to target three
distinct groups of consumers in downtown Iowa City, University of Iowa students,
University of Iowa faculty and staff, and blank.
Dickens/ Residents.
Ford/ Where are we here?
Wright/ We have everybody else.
Ford/ Is it two?
Wright/ Exhibit B, Section 3. Research methodology, bottom of the page.
Bailey/ Okay. Uh, students, staff, and faculty would be the three.
Wright/ So it's not going out to regular consumers?
Bailey/ Neighborhoods? Residents?
Wright/ Visitors?
Ford/ What he's trying to get to is the spending power of that particular demographic in relation
to downtown Iowa City.
Karr/ Wendy, do you have a microphone on?
Ford/ Oh.
Karr/ Thank you.
Ford/ Thanks. Millar is trying to get, in particular, and this is, um, this is why, uh, the staff liked
this particular, uh, consultant, he's trying to get deeper into the spending power of these
three particular populations in regard to the University: the students, the faculty, and the
staff. Okay.
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Wright/ Well, I think that seems like a big omission if we leave out all the other people who go
downtown.
Ford/ Oh, he won't be leaving out all the other people who go downtown, but this in particular
goes deeper than his, than the basic research, which is similar to what we had done with
the market report in 2007. This, I hate to use the analogy, peels back the skin on the
onion to get to, for example, um, he touts his, uh, research as, uh, instead of using straight
demographics that would represent the student population in Iowa City, those students
often, uh, report their household income as zero, because they're students and not making
any money. So what he does is, uh, working in tandem with the university, gets the, uh,
home zip codes of all of those students and goers back to find the average household
income of their communities, so he can pull that back into our data and when he's done
this in other university communities it has essentially pulled up the average household
income of that college town by $10,000. So, he's trying to get specifically deeper into the
spending power of those three publics, not at the expense of all the other consumers in, in
the Iowa City area. But his specialty is digging deeper.
Wright/ So for faculty and staff, how are they, how am I different than Susan, when I'm
downtown?
Ford/ Uh, he will, we asked for him to, he was talking about only talking to faculty for instance,
um, in, uh, getting at the, uh, the desired spending or categories of shopping that they
desired to see downtown. And we said, don't leave out our staff, because the numbers are
as huge and they have a huge spending power with themselves. So we asked him to add
staff to the faculty when he was going, uh, into that part of the study. Now, that's not
going to be as census, uh, dependent as the student population, as I explained. This will
be more, uh, survey related. He'll be able to extract that information from a survey that
he'll be doing in September when school resumes again, if he gets this contract.
Champion. So, basically, we're talking about what is the University's effect on spending
downtown.
Wright/ I really don't like that.
Bailey/ I, you know, I've generally been supportive of going deeper into our downtown market
study, but I, I tend to agree with Mike on this, just given some comments I've heard from
close-in neighborhoods that the focus seems to be on creating, um, what is, a campus type
town, based upon this new data and they have concerns that, that, they saw something,
they see some opportunities with downtown for retail that would support the close-in
neighborhoods, they're shopping interests, those sorts of things, but this focus seems to
be almost primarily driven by University interests.
Wright/ I wouldn't even say almost.
Bailey/ Well, and given that it's a partnership and it, it's a perception, but perception, as we
know in this business, becomes reality, so even by the nature of not mentioning that
group, it's once again a "see what I mean."
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Ford/ Well, we could add that the, that general segment, the general population segment will be
included because he will be doing the, uh, I should say, typical analysis as well, but this
information will, uh, provide, we're hoping, more compelling information for, uh, retail
and other entertainment.
Bailey/ Well, if we consider---
Wright/ Just, just asecond---
Ford/ It will show up in the general---
Bailey/ Well, and I think we understand that, it's just the impression that it, you know, this is a
partnership with the University, um, it's just some comments I got from some people,
well, from some neighbors.
Markus/ Look at Section 2.2. I, I'm not sure, um, Number 3 is supposed to be separating staff
and faculty. I'm wondering if we missed, you know, if you just extended one, two, three,
and it says University of Iowa students, then under two it says staff and faculty, I'm
wondering if that shouldn't be townsfolk, townsfolk is very folksy, but, uh, citizens,
residents, whatever.
Hayek/ And that seems to be suggested by earlier portions of the contract. It refers to
townspeople and visitors---
Bailey/ Iagree. Ijust had some very specific questions---
Hayek/ ---it could just be a---
Bailey/ ---and I guess there's an impression out there because it's a partnership.
Markus/ It could just be a misinterpretation.
Hayek/ Well, it could just be a typo.
Karr/ It appears to be a typo.
Bailey/ Right, but.
Wright/ I, I think it's one that needs to be addressed. It gives---
Bailey/ That's all I'm saying. How we---
Markus/Before tomorrow night we will verify with the consultant what the intentions were and
clarify that further.
Bailey/ And I thought it would be helpful for people to know some of the impressions that are
out there right now with this.
Mims/ I would say certainly having listened to his presentation when he was here in town, um,
he struck me as somebody who is incredibly good at this, and has done it at a lot of
different places and knows what to look at and is not going to overlook anything that is
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important to coming up with a good plan for downtown. But he does, he digs deeper in
those university, uh, particularly like, the students, like Wendy was saying, when people
think, oh they're all poor students, um, they have a lot of disposable income because of
families, etc., in many cases. So, he drills at it in a different way. Just an incredibly
impressive presentation he gave when he was in here before and I'm really excited about
this.
Bailey/ And I'm not, it's not that at all, you need to understand that there are people in this
community who recognize that it's a university town, but for them, its more than that and
the emphasis on that aspect of it usually raises hackles with them. I mean, it's just a, it's
just an age-old thing, and so as we go forward with exciting opportunities for downtown,
it has to be a community effort.
Mims/ Oh, and Ithink---
Bailey/ And I understand that it is, I'm just saying.
Champion/ Oh, I think, some ways I understand what you're saying because frankly a lot of
townspeople would not be here without the University.
Bailey/ Absolutely.
Champion/ And I think they forget that.
Bailey/ Well, of course they forget that, but they also forget, they also don't want to, if you don't
work for the University being globbed in that group all the time gets old.
Champion/ Yeah, could be. I don't work for the University. I don't feel that way.
Markus/ Once we get all this information who's going to spearhead implementation of this?
Because I know we did that study before and then the flood kind of hit and threw that off
and nothing happened with that. At the same time we're working on this, uh, "ssmid"
concept and, uh, hopefully---
Hayek/ --they can coincide together.
Markus/ ---that evolves to the leadership role of the downtown and helps us market this area as
well.
Bailey/ And if it doesn't, regardless, we'll have a collateral package that we can use and be
proactive to go out and get the kind of business that it recommends we do and that we,
you know, we'd like to have in the downtown.
Dickens/ Because that was the only comment that I got was you know we spent a lot of money a
few years ago and it just, nothing happened with that, that study and .. .
Bailey/ Actually, quite a lot of things did come out of that study.
Dickens/ Yeah, well, a lot of the things that they were working toward kind of fell through. So,
that would be the only concern is---
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Wright/ I'm trying to think positive about the "ssmid" and focus on the "ssmid" and not
consider all the alternatives. Because that presents alternatives to people thinking about
"ssmid."
Hayek/ Other agenda items?
Bailey/ 3f(7), we got it tonight, it's a piece of correspondence about Arts festival and the Jazz
Festival and I know you've had these, gotten these numbers before, but the point is well
taken that Children's Day is on Sunday and we don't have bus service to downtown for
those festivals. Um, and I think it might be beneficial to look at those numbers and see if
that's something, I mean„ it's coming up, that's the problem. I mean, it's, we don't even
have another Council meeting. And at, at one time we did run busses both on Saturday
and Sunday one year?
Champion/ I don't remember.
Bailey/ I thought that was part of our support for the festivals one year. And I think it's
something that we should consider, if not for this year, it should be something standardly
considered.
Champion/ When are we doing fireworks, aren't we doing those July 3rd instead of 4cn this year?
Bailey/ Yeah, we are.
Champion/ Well, we do have bus service for the fireworks, so.
Helling/ I'll have to check. We did change it a little bit. We had, we had bus service.
Bailey/ One year we---
Helling/ And it's the kind, it's different too, because the holiday, typically we don't have bus
service on the holiday, on the 4cn
Champion/ We did it on the 4cn
Helling/ Right. So.
Bailey/ I think this should be part of our support package for those festivals is that we provide
bus service.
Champion/ (can't hear) we're going to have fireworks and then they're going to be at the
Pentacrest.
Bailey/ And, especially, you know, and the Kids'---
Champion/ The parking ramp's going to fill up.
Bailey/ The Kids' Day, the library does a lot for that and it is, typically, I think, on Sunday isn't
it?
Hayek/ Yeah.
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Champion/ I can't remember.
Helling/ I can talk to Chris tomorrow. Find out what we, what we did, and least let you know
that.
Bailey/ That would be a good thing.
Wright. Three weeks away?
Bailey/ Yeah.
Wright/ Three or four weeks?
Champion/ It is? It's only three weeks. My gosh, where does time go?
Hayek/ Other agenda?
ITEM 12. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING DISTRIBUTION OF THE
"PROGRAM FOR IMPROVING NEIGHBORHOODS" (PIN) GRANT
FUNDS.
Wright/ We got an e-mail about the, uh, PIN grants, the, uh, compost up at Longfellow, and I
admit that---
Karr/ I'm sorry, can you stop, just a little bit louder, I'm so sorry.
Wright/ I'm sorry. Here, let me hear a pin drop. It was about the PIN grants, uh, and I was a little
uncomfortable about that one as well because this is just improvement for private
property. I, I don't see an element, a very strong element for assistance to seniors,
children, the handicapped, which are supposed to be the emphasis of a PIN grant, and I
also remember a huge go-round with PIN grants a few years ago about private property
improvements.
Hayek/ That's a fair point.
Bailey/ Yeah.
Dickens/ I think one point of clarification, the compost is, as I understand it, delivered to a
common site.
Wright/ Right.
Dickens/ And then the residents will pick it up themselves. I think there may have been some
miscommunication about how this actually works. It's not delivered to each individual
home.
Wright/ No, and I was very clear about the fact that it's apick-up drop, or a drop and then a pick-
up spot for the compost.
Bailey/ But it is for their own yards.
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Wright/ Yeah, personal use.
Hayek/ Well, we're getting a brief presentation tomorrow night as to these as, I understand it. I
think we can pick that up then if there's concern about that.
Bailey/ And maybe let Marcia know that we want to address that.
Dickens/ Of course, their recommendations.
Champion/ Do we charge for City compost?
Bailey/ Mm-hm. Yes.
Champion/ Okay. I thought it was free.
Mims/ The wood chips are free. But the compost is charged for.
Bailey/ Which is good.
ITEM 16. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AWARDING CONTRACT AND
AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO
ATTEST A CONTRACT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE IOWA RIVER
TRAIL -NAPOLEON TO TRUEBLOOD PROJECT.
Hayek/ I'm a, uh, Item 16, the, uh, Iowa River trail and Napoleon Park down to Trueblood. Um,
I guess this isn't really part of Trueblood. It's more of a connection to Trueblood, but as
we look at Trueblood and, and our ability to build that out as quickly as we can, and
you've got this fund-raising dynamic as well, um, are, will we roll these stages or phases
out commensurate with the fundraising, or irrespective of it? And I say this because we,
as I recall, when we acquired the land there was concern about, uh, capacity to fund the
improvements and we decided that, well, we're going to do what we can, with time.
Markus/ I think the state grant funds are kind of last dollars in, as I recall that discussion.
Bailey/ Well, Vision Iowa is, yeah.
Markus/ Yeah, Vision Iowa. So, we certainly aren't going to get to the last phase without having
that discussion about the fundraising efforts. But I think the intention is to do Phase 2 this
coming construction season, so, yeah, so. There's only three phases to this, as I recall the
project. So we're going to have that discussion before we go into the major construction
of that final phase.
Hayek/ Phase 3. Certainly the incentive to fundraise dissipates the more this is brought to
completion.
Bailey/ Absolutely.
Markus/ As visualized. We keep having discussions with Mike about how we're doing, and he
seems positive at this point they'll achieve it, so.
Hayek/ Other agenda items?
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ITEM 14. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING, AUTHORIZING AND
DIRECTING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK TO
ATTEST A CONTRACT FOR THE PERFORMANCE OF CONSULTING
SERVICES BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND
DIVARIS REAL ESTATE, INC., FOR A STRATEGIC ASSESSMENT OF
DOWNTOWN IOWA CITY AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE
ENHANCEMENT OF RETAIL OPPORTUNITIES.
Dilkes/ Um, on the, back to the contract, Item 14, I believe there was a change with respect to the
compensation. The, um, consultant wanted the travel expenses not to be included in the,
um, not to exceed, and that was acceptable to staff.
Hayek/ How does that impact our University's cap of 25. Does that put travel on us?
Markus/ We will ensure that it's split the same way as the other part of the contract, before we
come back tomorrow night. So $27,500 per entity, if I am understanding it correct.
Hayek/ Any other agenda items people want to address?
City Plaza Ordinance Revisions fIP21
Helling/ You have received a memorandum that talks about the revisions in concept. This is not
an agenda item for tomorrow, but this is, uh, with your concurrence, we would then go
ahead and draft up the necessary, uh, (inaudible) revisions. Uh, I don't know if you had a
chance to look through it. I can kind of walk through it briefly if you'd like, or if you
have read it and just want to, uh, you have questions, we can jump right in. Kathy is here,
uh, to help answer questions. She's the one who has to, uh, deal with the, with the
paperwork and the administration and in some cases the actual monitoring enforcement.
Wright/ Was this brought up because of the amount of time it takes, or were there problems?
Helling/ Well, the amount of time it takes is one reason, but there are others.
Wright/ Is that the major one?
Helling/ I think, uh, one of the things that, that has come to light is that the City Attorney is not
really comfortable with the way we've been line-drawing, so to speak, in terms of non-
profits versus for-profits. And so that's a major, that's a major reason why we need to
take a look at this. The other thing I think is just the Ped Mall has changed so much since
it was built almost 30 years ago. Um, it, it, there's a lot of activity down there and there's
a lot more space that's been taken up with the outdoor cafes and that type of thing, and
so, what's happened down there is there's a lot of pedestrian traffic, um, the tables are
one thing that we took a good look at because, uh, there are a lot of applications generally
for those. They usually want to set up tables somewhere in the area, the most populated
area because that's where, that's where people go, for events or just generally where
people walk. And so, and it's all about, I think, keeping a balance of activity and
entertainment and the types of things that we'd envisioned down there all along, but also
to make sure that it's a comfortable place, it's accessible, walkable, and that there are
opportunities for people to sit down and have a quiet conversation as well if they want.
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That's kind of where all of this has taken us to. Um, but clearly if we can't make the
distinction, if we're not comfortable with the distinction between profits and non-profits
then we really need to look at what's happening with, not only the tables, but sales in
general down there.
Bailey/ Can we, can you discuss that a little bit, why we can't draw a line or how, what you're
concerns are, because I'm not sure I, that's where I had a lot of questions.
Dilkes/ Yeah, well, first of all, this whole discussion at the staff level has evolved over a period
of time. Um, a lot of times a question will come into Kathy about whether someone can
set up a table and then it will come down to my office, and it was never completely clear
to me who could set up a table and who couldn't set up a table. Um, and so then, you
know, there was anon-profit idea, but if you're actually going to do non-profit it's going
to take a lot more time to do it because we're going to have to determine the non-profit
status, etc. Uh, but, so we started looking at that issue and if you want to allow tables,
you can allow tables. That's okay. I don't have a problem with allowing tables, I just
want that anybody who wants to use a table gets to set up a table. And it's not based, it's
based on the interests that we have which are the free flow of pedestrian traffic and the
economic vitality of downtown. And if you're going to allow tables then I think the
prohibition should be on an exchange of, of money. If you want to allow tables and
informational tables only, I think that's fine. Um, but that's when it gets into the
administrative issue and that's why staff's recommending no tables.
Bailey/ So, we could, because it's our property, set criteria, as long as the criteria is fair and, um-
Dilkes/ It are not just that the criteria is fair. You're talking about a public forum, okay. And---
Bailey/ Right, and that's my concern, about limiting it.
Dilkes/ ---and, you have, there's strict scrutiny when it comes to looking at the distinctions you
make. And that's what has concerned me about this whole table issue, because it's never
been quite clear to me who gets to set up a table and who doesn't.
Bailey/ And that's what I'm asking about strict scrutiny. If you made a distinction between not
for profits and for profits.
Dilkes/ But I don't think that that is---
Bailey/ That would not---
Dilkes/---is an allowable distinction based on your interests. Because your interests are with
respect to the free flow of pedestrian traffic and the economic vitality downtown.
Bailey/ Well, what about the free flow of information and sort of the public commons and free
exchange of ideas, that isn't part of the interest in the City Plaza?
Dilkes/ No, I'm not, I think you can do that. You're asking me if you can distinguish between
profits and non-profits.
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Bailey/ Simply because of, that's often a distinguisher.
Dilkes/ It is in some cities. That's right. And there's been case law that has found that not
allowable.
Bailey/ That's what I'm asking. Okay.
Dilkes/ yeah. And another thing that you all need to remember is that you, you prohibited
solicitation downtown except in some places, and so every time that I look at something
that you're going to allow, I compare it to the prohibition on soliciting. And there has to
be a distinction that makes a difference when it comes to your interests. Okay, so for
instance, would it be allowable to you to allow solicitors for instance to say, okay, I'm
not just asking for a donation, I am selling a cookie, I am selling a song, that kind of
thing. This is, it's a complicated thing and so, when I look at a situation, I try and figure
out if I can make all the distinctions that you're making downtown make sense.
Bailey/ What if it was strictly information and no solicitation.
Dilkes/ I don't have any problem from a legal prospective with tables that provide information,
but-
Wright/ And that, that's---
Dilkes/ But, that's and administrative issue.
Hayek/ Let me just dove, jump in on that point because if the concern is the commercial
exchange of money whether for-profit or for good, what is the difference between a table
with flyers on it and someone walking around with flyers on it when they are both
informational and that's all.
Dilkesl What's the difference? Is there?
Hayek/ Well, this proposal, as I understand it, it's okay to walk around with an informational
flyer and hand it out. It's not okay to sit there with a table with the same information.
Dilkes/ But that's an administrative distinction that's being made.
Hayek/ Oaky.
Dilkes/ Not a legal distinction that's being made. The difference is because tables take up space.
Hayek/ Okay, and so that's why that---
Champion/ Oh, and people don't?
Dilkes/ Well, you're going to have to do a first-come first, you know, you're going to have to
have a location for tables and it's going to be a first-come get to sit at the table, and
you're going to have to say for how long, etc., etc. Again, you can do that. That's an
administrative recommendation that's being made.
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Hayek/ But as I understand it, the administrative headache has to do more with determining non-
profit status, that kind of thing---
Helling/ That and just keeping track of who has a table where and so people don't get down there
and you know, I was here first. We'd have to, we'd have to, I think, have some kind of
permitting process, for lack of a better term, to at last know where they are and that
people who are there have permission, And I think it would be a good idea to have a
certain area set aside and a limited number of tables at onetime, if we're going to do that.
The, the thinking that we got to was that, if it's going to be information only, it's
perfectly acceptable to walk around, move around and pass out flyers or whatever, um,
and so without eliminating that, the right to do that, obviously, we can eliminate the
tables that take up space, and. You know, they're not a huge liability, but if someone
tripped over one, on, on a, City plaza, the City may be involved in a claim or something,
so.
Bailey/ Yeah, I'd rather have tables than people passing out things. It's less disruptive for people
who want a quiet conversation. I mean, personally.
Helling/ Um, and we do tell people, to solicitors and so forth, that you can't approach people in
get in their face. Just, you can be there and hand it out, if they want to take it or not.
Champion/ Well, people do that all the time. They don't need a permit to do that.
Helling/ Yeah, you don't need a permit to do that.
Dilkes/ Well, I do, if you want to continue to allow tables we do need to tighten up the
permitting process, because I have not been comfortable that, you know, that we're
making distinctions that always make sense.
Champion/ Well, I, I do agree that the sidewalk cafes have taken up a large amount of space on
the, uh, Pedestrian Mall, which I love anyway. I just, I just think we're getting so many
rules, does it make it just, it's a city of rules.
Bailey/ I would like to find some way to continue to allow tables. I think that the City Plaza
should be an exchange of ideas and discussion and all those sorts of things. If we need
tighter rules to meet legal standards, let's do them, but, that's what I was trying to
understand is where can we draw the line and what can it be.
Champion/ I like the idea that they can have a table but there can't be an exchange of money.
That---
Bailey/ I think that gets clearer.
Champion/ --That's very clear.
Wright/ We could have a limit on the number of tables or where they're located, that's fine, but I
don't really want to eliminate them altogether.
Bailey/ Me either.
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Wright/ Because they do add to the public forum atmosphere downtown.
Bailey/ Yeah, I think so too. And to the Farmers' Market as well.
Wright/ Yeah.
Champion/ I, I---
Dilkes/ We have to have another conversation about the Farmers' Market. (Laughter) Because,
because that's been a different issue and, why don't you finish this one. We can .. .
Champion/ But I'm for limiting the number of tables and I like the idea to instead of saying you
can be anon-profit, of saying, there can't be money exchanging; there can't be an
exchange of money.
Bailey/ Right. For information not money.
Champion/ (can't hear) information.
Wright/ If you want money, if you try to collect money, you can hand somebody an envelope
and hope they mail it in later.
Bailey/ Right. I mean, if your brochure has information on it, that's one thing, but, yeah.
Helling/ Well, I would recommend that, we specify a certain area where the tables can be located
so they're not scattered all over.
Champion/ Exactly.
Wright/ That's actually not a bad idea.
Bailey/ Well, and is there another, I mean, Kathy's busy with a lot of things, does it make sense
to, I'm sure you've looked at this internally, is there another office that would be better
staffed or have greater capacity to handle this process, too, if we wanted to continue to
allow it?
Helling/ Well, I think we would want to look at our administrative process. Eleanor mentioned
information only, and that's probably, I think that's what I hear you saying, so keeping
track of them, the thing is that we probably wouldn't be able to, we probably wouldn't
be down there, uh, looking after them as much as we might like. Just because of the time
it takes to go down there and police that.
Bailey/ Well, one of the things that, and you know, I've tabled on the Ped Mall, I think some
others have too, is one of the things that I thought would always be helpful to know that
we were allowed is just have some sort of placard or permit to just put right at, you know,
that this has to be out there. And then, people wouldn't feel like, oh, somebody's going to
look, even if I, I don't know it just makes it more.
Wright/ So something you could display that---
Bailey/ Yeah.
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Wright/ ---proves you're bonafied.
Bailey/ Yeah.
Champion/ So just like those yellow things they give you to park for a day.
Bailey/ Yeah, I mean it could just be one of those.
Champion/ It could just be (can't hear) somebody writes on in magic marker for---
Page 17
Bailey/ Bright yellow card stock, Table #1, you know, whatever it is, and then if somebody is
walking by and one of our police officers is down there and they're not displaying it they
can ask. I know it's silly. It won't be, but it would be something. I mean I know it's not
going to be regularly enforced, it's not going to be a high priority, but it's going to be
something.
Helling/ Well, Kathy can explain, we're working on a system now where we have a, for some
things anyway and we can probably do it for that where you just have a form that you fill
out and it is the permit, just a copy of it or something. We can do that in bright yellow or
something and tell them that they have to display it. But if you want tables I think, as
long as we can confine them to a certain area and cutting it back as much as possible on
our administrative, uh, time, and just tell them information only and no goods or services.
Champion/ I think that'd be fine. You could limit them somewhere. Find a good spot.
Bailey/ And of for example somebody is, if there is a complaint about, you know, soliciting
funds or something, just tell them that that would, can we disqualify them from future
tabling opportunities if there is a complaint about solicitation, I mean, if they violate that?
I mean, that's legal, right? Don't play by the rules you can't play anymore.
Wright/ I think we can come back to some kind of common sense ways to regulate this without
pitching the whole thing out. But, but let's be clear so that the staff has the appropriate
direction on this. Are we comfortable with the commercial prohibition?
Champion/ Yes, I am.
Wright/ All in, basically.
Bailey/ For non-profits and for-profits.
Hayek/ What that means is that in addition to cell phone companies and other overtly
commercial enterprises not being allowed to solicit, uh, you know, Dance Marathon, Girl
Scouts, insert your charity won't be either.
Champion/ Well, there is an exception built in here.
Dilkes/ I do think, not only the exchange of money issue, Matt, but when you talk about Dance
Marathon and that kind of activity, that really would be problematic, because you have
restricted solicitors to certain areas. And the courts have said there is no difference
between someone who is asking for a donation for themselves and someone who is
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asking for a, for a donation for an entity. And so, it would not be acceptable to say, you
know, the panhandler has to sit in a certain place but Dance Marathon can sit at a table.
Hayek/ Exactly. But, but, it's easy to talk about the commercial prohibition until you give an
example or two, then people say, oh, I didn't mean to do that.
Bailey/ Tell us your favorite charity.
Dilkes/ No, I, I'm all for that, I mean, really, once you make a decision to start regulating like
you have with solicitors, then it's, it's, a tougher thing.
Bailey/ And that also means passive solicitation by non-profits, no bowl, no free-will donation,
that means all of it. I'm comfortable with that.
Hayek/ Are the rest of you?
Helling/ We still have the, the, uh, ambulatory vendor provision.
Bailey/ Oh, of course.
Wright/ And people can still walk around all they want.
Wilburn/ We have to be consistent with the panhandling ordinance though, Council adopted.
Hayek/ Does that somewhat address your administrative concerns?
Bailey/ Are we going to talk about the other portions of it?
Hayek/ Oh, yeah.
Bailey/ Because I had a question about amplified sound.
Hayek/ Speak up.
Bailey/ If there's no limiting sound to a certain decibel level, how will complaints be handled?
Helling/ Just by disturbance. The same way we do in the neighborhoods and so forth, if
somebody in the buildings or whatever would complain, uh, just a, it's basically a
judgment call, I think, that the police would have to make. There haven't been a lot of
problems at this point, so we weren't recommending to take that next step. That's always
available if it becomes problematic and if there are complaints that, you know, we can't
basically reason with people and get them to quiet down and so forth, or that want to push
the issue. And we can certainly do that, not only here, but outside of downtown as well.
Bailey/ I just wanted to make sure that businesses understood that if there are concerns how
would it be handled.
Helling/ The only complaint that I'm aware of was, was one about during the work hours, there
were office in the buildings upstairs by the (can't hear) park, and that's where the hours
noon to one and five to none-thirty came in. We didn't allow it during regular business
days.
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Champion/ Oh, yeah, right. That's the reason for that limit. That's funny.
Helling/ And that seems to have worked pretty well too.
The, uh, the second point, number two under there talks about the permit holders who are
allowed to sell items, uh, be allowed to have amplified sound in other locations. And that,
to be allowed to sell items is just a criteria that we applied because that, that involves
large events like Jazz Fest, Arts Fest, those kinds of things where you might have, don't
always think of amplified sound as just music, there may be other things, and so when
those big events occur, and they really kind of take over the downtown there's a different
expectation I think, and so that would be an exception, but other than that, we, we would
stay with the, uh, noon to one and the five to nine-thirty, and with the, the stage in the
(can't hear) park only.
And then, then the bands that perform in front of the stores, you've seen that like over
the lunch hours, the same hours apply. Uh, that's not been a problem, in fact, you may
see a few more small quartets or something, I don't know.
Champion/ Yeah, because we've, you know when they did, um, oh, what's the festival, the
music festival, um, I can't think of the name of it.
Wright/ Jazz?
Champion/ No, the smaller one. Mission Creek.
Wright/ Oh, Mission Creek, yeah.
Champion/ I mean, they had musicians go to a lot of businesses downtown, but I don't think it
was between no one and one, but they weren't amplified. I know we had several of them
at our stores, and they're kind of fun and people like it. They actually had a burlesque
show. G-rated.
Hayek/ Anything else on amplified sound? You okay with the proposal? Okay.
And then, uh, do you need to take up selling items?
Helling/ Selling items is prohibited anyway, it's just those two exceptions, I think, that we're
talking about. The one where the code does allow certain things like the mobile and
ambulatory vendors, uh, sidewalk sales, temporary use of sidewalks, and the outdoor
service areas, those kinds of things. And then the other one would be the large events.
Wright/ You know, we didn't talk about the Farmers' Market.
Bailey/ Yeah, I was gonna ask if we're going to talk about that. What's the difference? You said
we have to talk about Farmers' Market?
Dilkes/ Well, the issue that we've had with the Farmers' Market is that the purpose of the
Farmers' Market is for the selling of good food and that kind of thing, good food, good
craft, vendors, etc., and we've got a whole series of regulations about that. Um,
occasionally, people have been allowed to set up tables for other purposes, but there's
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been no, it's kind of, you know, we've said yes to one and no to the next, and um, and so,
if you want to allow tables, that's, that's okay, but we're going to need to figure out
where and is it going to be related somehow to the Farmers' Market purpose or is it going
to be, again, afirst-come first get the table informational kind of thing.
Hayek/ The Farmers' Market does not include an portion of the adjacent park, is that right?
Dilkes/ No, and it doesn't, I don't believe so, and it doesn't include that area right at the entrance
where people set up tables.
Wright/ Where many of us have set up tables.
Bailey/ Probably all of us have had some experience with tables.
Mims/ There are a few political tables there.
Bailey/ And that season is upon us.
Hayek/ Well, couldn't you take the same approach with Chauncey Swan park that we're doing in
the Ped Mall. You can have tables, they can be informational, they can't be commercial
activity.
Bailey/ Permits. Permits required. I think that's.. .
Champion/ Have we had permits in the past? No, I mean, that's just another administrative
problem. Why can't we just say you can set up tables in the park, and if it becomes a
problem, like I can't believe there's gonna be 25 tables there.
Wright/ I think the most I ever saw was three or four.
Champion/ Right, so why can't we just say you can use, or you can set up a table if you want to,
and worry about it when it becomes a problem instead of.
Dilkes/ Can someone set up a table and sell?
Champion/ No.
Bailey/ There's your first rule.
Champion/ Yeah, but that's the rule.
Wright/ You can't sell.
Champion/ You can't sell, so, if we don't find people breaking the rules, if we say tables can be
set up for informational purposes only, then that means you can't sell. And I'm sure that
somebody in the Farmers' Market will complain if they're selling. (Laughter) That's
going to be taken care of pretty quickly.
Bailey/ Oh yeah, because they didn't pay the full cost of those .. .
Champion/ So, you know, I just hate to get another regulation going here.
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Bailey/ Can we have a standard without making a regulation until there's an issue, like on the,
would you be comfortable with that?
Dilkes/ We can, we can try it.
Champion/ Why not try it instead of making another rule that's cataloged and written down
forever and ever. Why can't we just say it's an understanding of the City Council of the
staff that you can set up tables for non-commercial.
Bailey/ Oh.
Dilkes/ I think we're going to have to, because, see, we normally.. .
Bailey/ City's don't have understandings, they have rules.
Dickens/ Executive order.
Dilkes/ I mean we're going to have to do some kind of statement in the code that sets, you know,
you can put up, you can put structures in this area of Chauncey Swann Park during the
Farmers' Market.
Champion/ Structure? I might build. a house there.
Dilkes/ For informational purposes or something like that. We're going to have to set the basic
rule in code.
Champion/ Do whatever you want to do, but I just hate to see us having to start permit
everybody, I mean, unless it becomes a problem. You can always, you can always make
the rule stricter.
Wright/ It seems like we could just start out with the rule that no money changes hands at those
tables, that they are for information purposes only.
Champion/ Yeah.
Bailey/ And they are in these areas.
Wright/ Yeah. You can be here or here, and that's it.
Dilkes/ And what happens when the person who has had the table in the same spot for two years,
and expects that that is their spot now because I've gotten those e-mails, what---
Champion. Well, I'd say, that's, you can't possess City property.
Dilkes/ Okay, I'll have them call you, Connie.
Champion/ Call me. I don't care.
Wright/ I've got a purchase agreement for that.
Hayek/ That's the, uh, Mayor Daley after a snow storm approach. Got that parking space.
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Wilburn/ I just want to, some understanding at Chauncey Swann, there has been, I think in the
last couple years, uh, I believe---
Bailey/ (can't hear)
Wilburn/ ---it's during Farmers' Market days, um, where there's someone who, I believe they,
they either grill or have grilled items just outside of the .. .
Bailey/ Mm-hm.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Champion/ Are they part of the Farmers' Market?
Wilburn/ I've never .. .
Hayek/ I bet they are and I bet their, uh, grill, somehow gets them out from under the covered
structure.
Champion/ Exactly.
Wilburn/ That's what I always wondered.
Hayek/ Exhaust. That's my guess.
Bailey/ I'm kind of comfortable having an ordinance, simply because I think that's the more fair
way to do it because then everybody knows the rules, instead of I've been around here
longer and I kind of know the understanding in the community. I mean, I do think
something written down puts everybody on an equal playing field.
Champion/ Okay.
Dilkes/ It may, you know, it may the, the main issue with tables has not been in Chauncey Swan
Park, it's been in that entranceway area. And, in fact, I can't, I don't know for sure, do
you know Kathy, if Chauncey Swan Park, it may be included within the area of the
Farmers' Market.
Bailey/ Seems like there's a lot of activities on Saturday morning that happen in Chauncey Swan
Park.
Helling/ That's all administered through parks & Rec so we don't have a lot of knowledge about
how it's set up or frankly the boundaries.
Dilkes/ But I guess what you're saying is that, with respect to areas that aren't covered by the
Farmers' Market, the vendors and all that kind of thing, on, during Farmers' Market days,
do you want to allow people to set up informational tables at the entrance and wherever
else the Farmers' Market isn't. We can come up with something there. Um, although, we
will need to check with them because it seems like just the last time I was at the Farmers'
Market the Farmers' Market itself had their big tables right at that main entrance.
Hayek/ Yeah. They did.
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Bailey/ They did.
Dilkes/ So that may have changed as well.
Bailey/ Not on the grassy part though, on the concrete.
Hayek/ So you guys can look at that. Thank you. Anything else on this issue? Thanks, Kathy.
Information Packet Discussion May 5 & May 121
Hayek/ Info packets. There are two: one from May 5th and ...can we get a , uh, oh, there it
comes. Well, I do, on the budget amendment. Can we get kind of a bird's eye on what
this means?
Markus/ That's why Debbie's here.
Hayek/ You'll have to come up though and join the microphoned world.
Karr/ Are we back to agenda items?
Hayek/ Yes. We're onto, uh, info packets.
Karr/ IP3 Budget Amendment.
Wright/ that's on the agenda.
Bailey/ It's also on the agenda.
Hayek/ Oh, it's also on the info packet, so.. .
Mansfield/ Okay, um, this is a budget amendment that covers from September 2"d up through the
current time period, so a variety of these amendments are actually included in the
financial plan that you reviewed in December and January. Um, have been incorporated
into that process and, let's see, it recognizes changes in grants and capital projects, and
um, Kevin summarized by the program area, um, expenditures. So, do you have .. .
Hayek/ I can, let me, yeah, um, I've been through this I know that there are timing considerations
and, and everything, the budget gets amended every year, and that this, this disclosure is
required by law. Maybe the best way for me to drill down on this is, are there any, do
these documents show the unexpected significant cost increases or revenue increases that,
as a surprise?
Mansfield/ Uh, not so much a surprise. Interest income is amended down. Um, and I'm sure that
that was reflected in the financial plan at that point. Um, there's---
Hayek/ Is that million down from the previously low number?
Mansfield/ Yes. Yes. And, Public Safety has a little bit of a contingency in it to allow for any,
um, significant events that might happen between now and June 30th, such as that might
require your overtime on your police force. And that's really about all that I would say
that you, I, I can take you down any point of it that you, I'm not aware of anything very
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substantial having been amended that was not included within your operating budget in
December and January.
Hayek/ Okay, so, there are big numbers on this page, again, I understand why we go through this
process. But, so that I can understand, that, that's why I ask these questions, and so, aside
from the million, the additional million lost from the interest income, this doesn't show
us any big ticket expenses or losses that we weren't planning on.
Mansfield/ No.
Hayek/ Okay. That's about all I need to know. (Laughter)
Hayek/ Okay. Thanks. Appreciate it.
Mansfield/ Mm-hm.
Hayek/ Anything else on, uh, May 5`n Info Packet? There is a, and this technically comes under,
I'm gonna wait for invitations and bring up the Veterans' Day thing. I'll table that. May
12`n Info Packet. Anythin~ else? KXIC right now? Need to fill in a few gaps in that
schedule. I can do June 8` or the 15`n, Marian.
Karr/ I'm sorry.
Hayek/ I can do June 8`n or the 15`n
Champion/ I'm actually quite flexible as everybody knows, although, since I'm doing
Wednesday, right? Isn't it me Wednesday?
Karr/ Yes.
Champion/ It's on my calendar at least, which is a miracle, I don't really want to do like next
week.
Karr/ No, the miracle would be if you'd show up on Wednesday. (Laughter)
Champion/ I've never not shown up.
Karr/ not so much that it's on the calendar.
Champion/ I might not show up here tomorrow after you said that.
Wright/ I' 11 do June 1 S`
Wilburn/ I should be able to do May 25`n
Bailey/ I'll take the 8`n or 15`n, whichever Matt doesn't want.
Karr/ Okay. Which one?
Hayek/ I' 11 take the 8`n
Bailey/ Great. I'll take the 15`n
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Champion/ That was easy.
Hayek/ Anything else on that info packet? Okay.
Council Time
Hayek/ Going once, going twice.
Budget Priorities
Hayek/ Budget, we talked about the budget.
Pending Work Session Issues
Bailey/ We added one.
Hayek/ What's that?
Bailey/ We added the first item.
Hayek/ Right. Okay.
Upcoming Community Events/Council Invitations
Page 25
Bailey/ I have one, uh, I just want to pass this out. Iowa New Leadership is an institute that meets
here in Iowa City every year and, um, there's a reception associated with it. I just wanted
to make sure that you were all aware of it. It brings in young women from throughout the
state, undergraduates and graduate students who, uh, are training in community
leadership, uh, political as well as appointed business and so, just wanted to make sure
you were aware of that. You're certainly invited to attend the reception and remarks or
the reception only as you can. So, I wanted to extend that invitation to you.
Hayek/ Uh, the IPA in the May St" packet is an invite to the annual Veterans Trail Dedication
Ceremony, which is, uh, May 30t". Uh, I, I will be going to the morning's Memorial Day
event, per usual, being part of that. I can't make this. I don't know how often we have
sent people to this particular portion of that day in the past, but I flag that in case
anyone's interested. This is out at the, uh, Coralville Reservoir.
Wright/ I anticipate we're going to be out of town.
Hayek/ Alright. Well, unless someone chimes in now or thinks they will, I will let them know
that we can't be part of this but will be, uh, I'll be at the cemetery in the morning.
Wilburn/ I'll be at Wal-Mart Wednesday morning for the grand opening.
Wright/ Interesting.
Wilburn/ Yes.
Hayek/ Okay, any other invitations or events?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of May 16, 2011
May 16, 2011 City Council Formal Session
Page 26
Discussion of Meeting Schedule
Karr/ I'll be putting a note in the packet to next time to discuss the rest of the summer and fall
schedule. Next time.
Hayek/ Great.
Okay, anything else?
That's it. Good meeting. See you tomorrow evening.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of May 16, 2011