HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-08-01 TranscriptionAugust 1, 2011 City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Bailey, Champion, Dickens, Hayek, Mims, Wilburn, Wright
Staff Present: Markus, Helling, Dilkes, Karr, Knoche, Fosse, Davidson, Morris, Gannon,
Havel, Yapp, Moran, O'Brien, Ackerson, Nagle -Gamm, Hargadine
Others Present: N/A
First Avenue Grade Separation (IP3 of 7/28):
Hayek/ Welcome, everyone! First bullet point this evening is the, uh, the discussion of the First
Avenue railroad grade separation project (mumbled) get an update from staff on that.
Knoche/ Good evening, um, I'm Ron Knoche, City Engineer, um ... just wanted to point out a
few things. There was a handout, uh, that was given out tonight. It just ... it basically is
just kind of a highlighted points of what I'm going to go over. Um ... it should be a single
sheet, double- sided. And, uh, what we'll do is ... is first of all kind of just go through the
proj ...all the projects that are in that area of town, that south side of town, and then, uh,
go more in -depth into the First Avenue bridge separation project. Uh, so ... we currently
have four projects, um, in the area that we're working on. We have the Lower Muscatine
Road project. Uh, Highway 6, Sycamore Street intersection project. Uh, First Avenue
grade separation, and a First Avenue drainage project. The Highway 6 and Sycamore
Street intersection project will, uh, is addressing some safety concerns, uh, we ... uh, last
year with our construction converted the four -lane section of Sycamore south of Highway
6 to three -lane section. Uh, this project will add a left -turn lane, uh, on the north side of
the intersection, um, in order to do that, we'll have to replace the retaining wall, uh, that's
existing in the parking lot of the Sycamore Mall. Uh, we're currently on a scheduled that
we'll bid this project this fall, and then we'll construct possibly over the winter, but more
than likely' ll be next spring, the construction' ll go on there. Uh, the Lower Muscatine
improvements project is one that I think we've talked about significantly, um, this'll
reconstruct, uh, Kirkwood, er ... Lower Muscatine from Kirkwood to First Avenue. Um, I
think the ... the major part of this project is relocating the Kirkwood College driveway and
combining that with the MidAmerican driveway, and then we'll signalize that at
Sycamore Street. So, um, that's what is showing up there on the ... on the board right now
is kind of the reconfigured intersection, uh, with the driveways. Um, along with this
project we'll convert the existing four -lane section, uh, to a three -lane section in front of
the mall, and then we'll also extend that a little bit further to the east of First Avenue.
Uh, this project, we're ... we're still in the process of acquiring the property for this. Uh,
the current schedule still has it at ... on a fall bid, and then we'll, uh, construct next spring,
and that'll be a full construction season project next year. Uh, the First Avenue storm
sewer project — this is a two -phase project. Um, this will, um, take the existing ditch
that's behind the mini mall, um, along First Avenue, uh, put that in storm sewer pipe and
then the second phase of that will be, um, to, uh, to extend a new box culvert from First
Avenue to the P &G property. Um, this is a project that, uh, kind of goes hand -in -hand
with the First Avenue grade separation cause we had to do some drainage improvements
in that area to take on the new drainage that'll be underneath the bridge, uh, when we go
to that project. So we'll, uh, bid this fall for the first phase, instruct, um, that this winter
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and this spring, and then we'll have another bid package that'll go out next spring and
we'll construct that next summer. So on to the First Avenue grade separation. Uh, kind
of the history here. In 2005 we hired N &W to do a concept of the ... the project that's at
hand. Um, they had identified two alternatives, uh, the first alternative was to take First
Avenue over top of the railroad, um, lower the railroad a little bit. Um, the second option
was to raise the railroad and take the road underneath the ... take First Avenue underneath
the railroad. Due to the limited right -of -way that we have and the amount of right -of -way
it would take to actually raise the road over top, um, they had identified that lowering the
street and raising the railroad was the preferred alternative in the corridor. Uh, in 2008
we hired N &W, um, which is ... in recent years was sold to V -Jay Engineering, uh, to do
the design of the project. Uh, we've had some delays because of the flooding in 2008,
um, in 2009... throughout the timeline obviously you know that we were looking for
funding, both federally and locally and in 2009 we did receive $2.4 million in STP funds
for the project. So the ... the extents of the project for the First Avenue grade separation
will be from Bradford to the north, um, south to, um, just beyond Mall Drive. Um, Mall
Drive will be reconstructed over to about the driveway of the commercial area. To the
commercial area here ... and then we'll reconstruct the driveway, um, into the Southeast
Junior High. Um, along with this project... for... for the phasing of it, we'll also do a
temporary driveway off of Bradford that'll allow for, uh, one of the phasing pieces to
close the driveway into the Southeast Junior High. Uh, earlier this year we had done
a... a resolution for acquiring property rights. That mainly was for some utility work that
we're going to do this fall. Um, we have a situation where the existing water main that
services the homes just to the north of the railroad, on the west side of First Avenue, that
water main is out in First Avenue and so we're going to do a project to loop some water
main along I Street, or along J Street, and then relocate that water main to the alley
behind the houses. The existing sewer service for Southeast Junior High actually comes
across First Avenue, just to the north of the railroad tracks, urn ... in order to do the
lowering in that area, we're going to take that sewer service and run it over to Mercer, uh,
there's a new sanitary sewer, since Southeast was, uh, constructed, that we'll be able to
tie into there. Um, as we ... as we move forward with the project, the first phase for this
project will be to construct, um, a shoofly or kind of a temporary rail line to the south of
the existing tracks, um, for the Iowa Interstate. Um, as we construct that, we'll have to
build a new crossing here. We'll go head -to -head traffic in the southbound lanes of First
Avenue. So that'll be constructing of the ... the shoofly tra ... rail on both the east and the
west sides of First Avenue. In phase two as we ... as we move forward with construction,
uh, we will move the traffic back over to the northbound lanes, move head -to -head, um,
they will work on a temporary bridge, uh, for the ... where the shoofly is at, urn ... and then
they'll start to excavate for the lowering of the roadway. Um, as this phase of the
project ... and this is actually three phases of the work. Um, the ... east side sidewalk will
remain in place and we'll be able to continue to use that. Uh, and the next phase of the
work will actually shift the traffic over to the, um, southbound lanes, um ... the sidewalk
will be in place on the west side. Um, and at this point we will actually be going
underneath the railroad tracks. So there'll be a shoofly bridge, urn ... underneath, it'll go
underneath... our roadway' ll go underneath the bridge here and we'll maintain 12 -foot of
clearance, um, as we move forward. From this point forward, um ... we should not have
situations where we'll have First Avenue closed because of trains. Um, we'll be able to
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maintain that. For the majority of the work we will have some staging things that we'll
have to deal with but ... but we'll move, uh, we'll be able to keep that open. Um, as
they're ... as they're working on the railroad and raising the railroad, we'll actually, um,
have to go up about six feet with the railroad. Um, the roadway itself will be down to
about 16 feet. So, um ... you know, the rails will move up, the road will be down, and in
order to get that grade change in there, we'll be going about a half -mile to the east and
west of the existing crossing to be able to move ... to raise the rail up, uh, to that elevation
that will be there. And then in this phase they'll also be starting to work on the new
bridge, um, that will cross over the roadway. Um, in phase 7 and 8 basically finishing up
the project; we'll remove the shoofly, um ... they'll excavate and continue the work, um,
for the northbound lanes and ... and start to do that removal there. Um, at this point, the
railroad will be going on ... over top of the new bridge, and they'll be able to start to
remove that shoofly. Um, just to kind of show the ... where we're going to be at here.
This is the final configuration of the roadway. Um, we have 16', uh, 6" from the lowest
steel of the bridge to the top of the roadway. Um, and then we'll have, um, so that will
maintain legal clearance there, uh, and then this just showed that the rails actually to be
raised about 6 -feet. Um, this piece shows that we will have to do some grading work at
Mall Drive, so there will be a point in time when we'll have Mall Drive closed, uh,
during the construction. Final section, this is north of the bridge, um, along the
residential properties. We'll have a raised sidewalk, um, a little bit of a shoulder here,
um, and then this'll be a 6 -foot walk and we'll have an 8 -foot walk on the east side. Um,
at the bridge ... um, shows the walkway is still elevated, um, maintaining the 16'6"
clearance here, and then the 8 -foot walk comes underneath. And then at the south end,
this is about at Mall Drive, um, showing that the retaining wall that is at, uh, along the
commercial area and then we have the little bit of retaining wall along the east side. And
that's the artist's rendering — I think we've seen that multiple times of the area. One of
the things that as they've been going through and ... and reviewing things that the planter
idea, which is kind of a ... a offbeat of what the Mormon Trek, uh, railroad bridge is.
That's been kind of decided to go away from that, uh, one of the concerns is, um,
students climbing up there and actually getting up on the railroad tracks. Um ... one of the
concerns that we heard early on from the commercial folks was, um, and Sueppel's
Flowers especially was, uh, because the roadway was going to go down, they're going to
lose their visibility, their building. And so after that first meeting kind of gone back to
the drawing board to look at things and one of the ideas now is to go to a, uh, kind of
two -tier retaining wall system here, where we'll have ... be able to move this retaining
wall down a little bit and open up the views, um, from three lanes of the four lanes of
traffic that'll be there, um, up into the commercial area and we've actually, um, after
meeting with the ... the commercial folks again last week, uh, we're kind of looking at the
parking lot and maybe some ideas of changing that plan. A little bit more. So the
schedule that we have for the project right now, um, be doing the utility work this fall.
Uh, we'll have the final design done this winter. Uh (mumbled) done with the property
acquisition; that'll probably take us through the spring and currently our projection is a
bid date in June of next year. We'll start the construction the summer it ... it'd probably
be July, um, by the time we would get all the contracts in place and then we'll be looking
at a fall completion of 2014 for the project. Um, the ... we did meet with Iowa Interstate
Railroad, um, to discuss a few things. You know, one of the ... this is a photo of their
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engineer maintenance building, um, this will be moving out to the Homestead area, um,
after middle of next summer. Um, one of the... one of the questions that I had for... for
them was, if you're moving this facility does that change the way you operate, um, on
this side of town. Um, what ... what they're telling me is, um, you know, the amount of
usage that happens at the crossing will not change. Uh, the switching that occurs there
now is for the BDI industrial areas, um, it's not for building trains and some of those
other things, although I know that that happens, uh, currently, um, but the amount of
switching that happens and the number of closures will remain the same. Um, they are
looking at an increased number of trains on the tracks and as ... if Amtrak does come to
town, that will also increase, um, number of trains that'll be on the tracks. The other
thing that that will do is ... is increase the mile ... the miles per hour that ... on the track.
Currently they're about 25- miles -an -hour on that track today and with Amtrak, they
would move up to 79- miles -an -hour. Um ... one of the things that we're going to have to
deal with obviously with four projects going on in the area is construction coordination.
Um, it will be our biggest challenge, um ... we ... as we move forward, we'll make sure
that ... if Mall Drive is closed, First Ave ... Mall Drive at the other end with the First
Avenue grade separation project isn't closed between Lower Muscatine and First
Avenue, um ... you know, we'll deal with this, as we have in the past. We'll have, uh,
commercial signage up to direct folks places. Um, this is earlier in this year where we
were dealing with some utility work that was already going on in the Lower Muscatine
area... area, um ... we'll have weekly construction meetings. That'll allow for the
contractor to get together and know what their schedules are. Also will allow us the...
the commercial folks and the property owners to come in and sit in on those too. Um,
we'll do door knocking, if there's major issues that come up. We'll also do it with flyers
and making sure folks know what's going on in that ... in that manner. And ... that's it!
Hayek/ You mentioned the, uh, the ... moving the maintenance facility to Homestead and as I
understand it (mumbled) indication from the Railroad is that that's not going to impact
the traffic across First Avenue.
Knoche/ That's correct.
Hayek/ Um ... another thing that was brought to my attention the other day was this concept that
we could somehow, or the railroad could somehow do switching, uh, in the other
direction, in the area of our industrial park. Um ... and I ... because you're here, I just want
to have you answer that ... a constituent raised that as a possibility and I said I would ... I
would pass that along.
Knoche/ I think we can ask that question of the railroad, um, I don't know if there's enough
tracks available to them, um, you know, as far as the switching that would occur. You
know, they have ... they have multiple tracks in the ... in the area. Um, here where their
existing maintenance building is.
Hayek/ Right.
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Knoche/ And so they're able to do some ... little bit more switching there, but um ... I ... I guess we
could look at that and see. We will have additional tracks when we do construct our new
industrial park, uh, rail sidings up there.
Hayek/ But ... but could ... okay. Um, maybe ... you mentioned that the traffic around BDI and the
fact that apparently a lot of this ... a lot of the blockage is caused by ... by using the spurs
and ... and basically servicing customers in that area.
Knoche/ Exactly.
Hayek/ Would ... any sort of facility in the industrial park area alleviate that kind of activity
closer to First Avenue?
Knoche/ I ... I can't answer that. I don't know exactly how they would use that area.
Hayek/ Okay. What I'm getting at is I want us to ... to, uh, go through all suggested alternatives,
uh, and determine whether any of them would be viable before we reach this point. I
mean, we're doing that, and your presentation is part of that.
Knoche/ Right, yep.
Wilburn/ Ron, how far into Mall Drive will that ... actual construction reconfiguration have to
happen and uh ... and how long will that be?
Knoche/ Um, the ... it will go almost to the ... where the current driveway is. Um, and ... and we
may do a little bit more work there in the end, depending on how negotiations go for
property acquisition. Um ... I don't know the timeline of ... of how long those'll be closed,
but we would ... we would phase it such that it'd be closed at the shortest amount of time
that we can get it constructed.
Wilburn/ Uh -huh. But are you talking a ... uh, the complete shut -off so that any of those, are you
talking the entire distance so that those businesses would... there'd be a period of time
where they wouldn't have any access to their properties or...
Knoche/ That's something that we'll have to look at and see if we have enough room to ... to do
any temporary work in there to get `em through. Um, and that's ... as I talk, if, you know,
worst -case scenario we would do detour up and around Lower Muscatine to bring `em
back on Mall Drive. Yeah.
Wilburn/ (mumbled)
Knoche/ Yeah, that would be the worst -case scenario, but...
Wilburn/ Yeah, okay. All right.
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Bailey/ How are you coordinating with the school? I mean, there are two schools in this
immediate area that will be impacted. How ... how have they participated in this?
Knoche/ Um, we ... the designer has, um, spoken with the principal at Southeast multiple times,
um, to work through that part of it. Um, I'm not certain about the coordination with the
Tate High School at this time, but ... but we have been working with the School District.
Bailey/ Okay. Probably something that, I mean, this is a long construction...
Knoche/ Yes!
Bailey/ ...um, wow! And then, can you talk a little bit more about the walkway on the west side,
to the north ... of the intersection, you talked about elevation, um .... you know, that's
something I don't think we've thought much about. Those houses that are along the west
side of First Avenue. Can ... I didn't ... that buzzed by me very quickly. Can you explain
that again?
Knoche/ Yeah, um ... what ... what we'll have there is ... is ... originally what we had looked at
was ... was to have the sidewalk down at the street elevation, similar to what is on the east
side of the roadway.
Bailey/ Uh -huh.
Knoche/ And ... and as we thought about that, and ... and, you know, they technically would be
responsible for maintaining that sidewalk. You know, shoveling it and doing those
things, and so as we moved forward ... the decision was to bring that sidewalk up, and
bring it up basically to the house elevation, because... since... since the roadway is ... is
going down underneath the bridge...
Bailey/ Got it!
Knoche/ ...you know, we can basically maintain somewhat of the existing profile of the
sidewalk that's there today. There'll still be a retaining wall in front of those homes, but
they ... they won't have to go down multiple flights of stairs to be able to get down and
shovel the sidewalk along First Avenue.
Bailey/ Okay. So, it will be easy access to the sidewalk...
Knoche/ Exactly! Exactly!
Bailey/ ...with this change. Okay. That's...
Knoche/ It'll make it easier for the homeowners along there.
Bailey/ Okay. Thanks for clarifying that.
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Dickens/ Has the water table issue been looked at in that area, because I know it's... it was
always kind of a marshland in that area, where you're going to be going down and...
Knoche/ They ... we have done, uh, soil borings and we do know that the water table is high.
Um, is ... as we put in the sub - drains and do the work that'll be behind the retaining walls,
I think we will ... will help bring that water table down, um, even more than what it is
today.
Wright/ Along that same line, Ron, um ... we talked about the fact that there'd be pumps
necessary.
Knoche/ Yep.
Wright/ And I see it says here that even with the pump, it's likely for a large storm in the sump
area will pond?
Knoche/ That ... what we're ... what we're designing for is ... is basically a ... a 500 -year event. So,
you know, if we would get a storm that would exceed that amount of rain, we will have a
situation where water's going to pond in that area and...
Wright/ How much water is ... or how much rain are we talking about?
Knoche/ We ... we ... we are designing ... (someone speaking away from mic) ... 9 ... a 9 -inch rain is
what we're currently designing for. For that area.
Bailey/ Nine inches over what?
Knoche/ Twenty -four hours. (several talking) So 9 inches over 24 hours.
Wright/ A little bit less (both talking)
Knoche/ A little bit less than what just occurred in Dubuque, yes.
Champion/ (laughing) Poor Dubuque! My only question ... (both talking)
Bailey/ ...enough? Given the events that we've had, I mean... everything that I hear from people
who are looking at weather events are saying that they're more intense. I mean, given
what happened in Dubuque, and given people's concerns, I mean, have we looked at
what it would take to ... build to the ... I ... I don't know, but...
Knoche/ The ... the only concern that I would have, and .... and way over design of the storm
sewer is ... is even if the pipes are that big, you have to make the intakes that big to be
able to ... to take the water in. So ... I think you could end up in a situation where you'd
have just, you know ... curb openings all the way along the ... the roadway to enable to
take the amount of water in that we would have to have to take in.
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Bailey/ I just think we're designing for a future that doesn't look like what we've experienced.
Knoche/ I understand that. I understand that, and I ... I think that's one of the reasons why we're
looking at a 500 -year event, versus a 100 -year event, you know, which is kind of where
we've been at in the past.
Bailey/ Okay. Thanks.
Champion/ I thought it was interesting that you're going to raise the railroad 60, and lower the
road 16 feet. That means there's going to be 22 feet between that bridge and the road?
Knoche/ There would be 22 feet from the top of the rail to the roadway. The ... the actual, you
know, the bridge itself is ... is going to be about 6 -feet thick. To support the ... the rail,
you know, the rail ... the freight cars.
Champion/ Okay. So there really isn't going to be that much (both talking)
Knoche/ Right. So ... so from the road to the bottom of the bridge is about 16 and a half feet.
Champion/ Okay. Thank you!
Knoche/ Yeah!
Champion/ Gosh, that's tall! (laughter) I don't think trucks are that tall. Thank you.
Bailey/ And will the tracks ... the tracks be upgraded as part of this project, or is that a separate
project?
Knoche/ There will be ... they'll upgrade the rail, um, as part of this project.
Bailey/ To accommodate those (both talking)
Knoche/ For the, yeah, for this ... for this section of the rail. So it's about a miles' worth of rail
that they'll be replacing.
Bailey/ (mumbled)
Knoche/ Yeah. And one of the things that I ... I didn't mention is ... is along with this, we
are ... we are ... the bridge will be designed such that there will be two rails... they'll be
going across here. Um ... when ... when the realignment is done, the through -rail will
actually move further away from the ... it'll move closer to the residential properties, will
move away from the ... the commercial properties a little bit. It just ... a matter of shifting
about 15 feet or so ... to the north is where the main line of the rail will be at. And then
they'll have the ... the siding track that's... that's there today will ... will connect through
so ... we actually, the siding track will be where the existing main line is, and the new
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main line will be about 15 feet north of that. Of the existing... where the existing
crossing is. Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse ya! (laughter)
Bailey/ No, I'm just (mumbled)
Hayek/ Can you, um, go back over if there's an aerial of where north and south of...the bridge,
the grade starts (mumbled)
Knoche/ Sure. (mumbled) So, we'll be in a situation where we're tying back into about the
existing elevation, um, within 100 or 150 feet of where Mall Drive intersection is. So
from this point here, uh, we ... we start ... we start going down, um ... to get below the
railroad, and we pretty much carry that all the way up to Bradford. Um, so we'll be, uh,
about 8 %, uh, grade coming down from the north, and we'll be about 5% grade coming
up when we get underneath the railroad tracks.
Hayek/ So if you're one of those residential, uh, structures in that area, how ... what does that
mean in terms of a vertical drop?
Knoche/ Um, well in ... I'd have to look at that a little bit closer. I don't know exactly what it is,
but I would say, you know, from... from where you're at up here today, you'd be about
equivalent to, you know, there's some retaining... there's some elevation difference there
today. Um, as we get closer to the bridge it'll probably be in that 12 to 15 -foot range.
Hayek/ Okay. What other questions are there for Ron?
Bailey/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ When's our next decision point?
Knoche/ Uh, we are in the process right now of, um, you know, of getting through the final
design. Um, at that point, uh, if we're looking at a June letting, you know, we would be
looking at setting public hearing and holding public hearing, um, in the (mumbled) two
months, um ... in the March -April timeframe. Um, but we will be in, you know, we'll go
through another budget cycle as far as the ... the Capital Improvements Plan goes. So, you
know, we'll have a budget cycle that we'll go through here this fall, early ... and winter,
and then we'll have an actual public hearing, plans and specs, um, March- April.
Hayek/ On the design?
Knoche/ Yep, on the design.
Hayek/ Okay.
Knoche/ And then, obviously, the June -July we would have, uh, accepting the bids if... if they
come in reasonable.
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Hayek/ Okay. So, as part of our CIP budget process, and then again for design.
Knoche/ And then for the design, exactly.
Hayek/ Okay. Any other questions for Ron? Thank you! Appreciate it!
Knoche/ Thank you.
Champion/ Thank you.
Council Appointments:
Page 10
Hayek/ Okay, next item on our ... is Council appointments. Several, uh, up for tonight. First one
concerns, uh, three vacancies on the HCDC.
Champion/ Well, Michael McKay is just serving his first term so ... I think we should let him
have a second term.
Hayek/ And I think ... I think Cheryll Clamon is on it now, but filling out the end of someone
else's term who left early. Is that correct? (mumbled) less than a full term.
Karr/ Uh -huh, yes.
Hayek/ Okay.
Champion/ And then Michelle (mumbled)?
Wright/ Yeah. I thought that was a very good qualification!
Champion/ I thought too, I thought, "Wow, that's going to shorten the learning curve!"
Hayek/ Yeah, I've heard good things about her. Are people comfortable with those three?
(several responding)
Champion/ I am!
Karr/ I'm sorry. What were the three again?
Hayek/ So uh ... Michelle Bacon Curry, Michael McKay, and Cheryll Clamon. Consensus on
that? Okay. Next is Parks and Rec.
Bailey/ I'd like to speak on behalf of Allison Gnade. I know her a little bit. I think she's a
young business owner and (mumbled) this would be a, she would be a good addition to
the ... the Commission.
Wright/ (mumbled)
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Bailey/ Allison. Gnade. (mumbled)
Champion/ I had a hard time deciding which one, so I'll support your choice.
Mims/ Yeah, I think she'd be very good. She was a classmate of one of my son's, and I've
known her since Shimek days and ... she's a nice young lady. I think she'd do a great job.
Wright/ There were some really good candidates (several talking)
Bailey/ ...amply qualified, but I do know her a little bit and...
Wright/ Okay, I'm fine with that.
Hayek/ Okay. Everybody else in support? Okay. Next ... PCRB. One opening. One application
from, uh, Donald King.
Bailey/ (mumbled) (several talking)
Champion/ He's fine.
Mims/ That's fine.
Champion/ He's only had ... been on it for one term.
Hayek/ Okay. Put him up. And then, Youth Advisory Commission. Uh ... one vacancy for a
Regina student. We have two names.
Mims/ Was there gender issue on that one? (several talking)
Hayek/ Okay.
Karr/ James?
Hayek/ Yeah, James. And I think that's it. Okay. Next is agenda items.
Agenda Items•
ITEM 8. DETERMINING AN AREA OF THE CITY TO BE AN ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT AREA, AND THAT THE REHABILITATION,
CONSERVATION, REDEVELOPMENT, DEVELOPMENT, OR A
COMBINATION THEREOF, OF SUCH AREA IS NECESSARY IN THE
INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY OR WELFARE OF
THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY; DESIGNATING SUCH AREA AS
APPROPRIATE FOR AN URBAN RENEWAL PROJECT; AND
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ADOPTING THE URBAN RENEWAL PLAN FOR THE SCOTT SIX
URBAN RENEWAL AREA, AMENDMENT NO. 1.
Wright/ On the ... item 8...I know we had checked in with the County, getting any concerns that
they had. Did anybody ... feel the need to check with the School District too, in terms of
any possible, uh ... future issues with the TIFs in that area? (mumbled)
Bailey/ They didn't show up at the...
Davidson/ They did not appear at the consultation, no.
Wright/ Did not appear, okay. That settles that.
Hayek/ Okay. Other agenda items? Going once!
ITEM 9. IOWA CITY'S FY11 ANNUAL ACTION PLAN AMENDMENT # 4,
WHICH IS A SUB -PART OF IOWA CITY'S 2011 -2015 CONSOLIDATED
PLAN (CITY STEPS), AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO
SUBMIT SAID PLAN AND ALL NECESSARY CERTIFICATIONS TO
THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT.
Bailey/ I ... have a question about 9, but I don't see Steve here.
Davidson/ I can take any, uh, messages to Mr. Long if you would like and he'll be here
tomorrow, he or Tracy will be here tomorrow.
Bailey/ Okay. Is ... is the 5 -year compliance period pretty standard? I thought that seemed a little
short.
Davidson/ I will double -check that. I don't know why it would not be standard.
Bailey/ That's what I figured, but I (both talking)
Davidson/ ...I will double check.
Bailey/ ...thank you.
Hayek/ Other agenda items? Okay. We'll move on to traffic enforcement cameras.
Traffic Enforcement Cameras (IP4 of 7/28):
Yapp/ Good evening, uh, John Yapp, Transportation Planner. Uh, since our last discussion in,
uh, March, on this issue, we did collect additional data. Uh, on the question of how much
red light running is there really. Uh, as you know, some of the collision statistics related
to red light running were not dramatic, uh, but we suspected that there was more red light
running than we had data on. So we did collect additional data on, uh, about 14,500
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vehicles entering at 10 different intersections, and found that an average of .6% of
vehicles do run red lights, uh, at intersections. Frankly, this was somewhat of a higher
percentage than I had anticipated. Um... some of the police staff who are out enforcing
this type of issue feel that that's a ... that's fairly accurate. Uh, not all intersections are
exactly the same. Some intersections have higher instances of red light running than
others. Uh, the highest ... uh, intersection for red light running was Market Street and
Dubuque Street, uh, the second highest was Clinton Street and Jefferson Street
intersections, uh, at between 1.5% and 1.7% of vehicles entering the intersection run...
run the red light. And by entering the intersection, what that means is, after the traffic
signal has turned red, the vehicle crosses the stop bar, the crosswalk, and enters the
intersection. Um, if they enter the intersection on a yellow light, then the light turns red,
they are not counted ... as red light running. Uh ... an example of that is frequently when
you're making a left -hand turn, you'll enter the intersection and after the light turns red
you are able to ... to complete your turning movement. Uh, those would not be counted as
red light running. Uh, interestingly, the ... two intersections with the highest number of
red light running also had the highest number of pedestrians. Uh, in the intersections that
we studied. Uh, Dubuque and Market, during the ... just the P.M. peak, uh, period had
340 pedestrians using the intersection and Clinton and Jefferson, 421 pedestrians. Uh,
and most of the complaints that we get regarding red light running, uh, are from
pedestrians. Um, after the ... uh, pedestrian walk light goes on and they are able to start
crossing the intersection, they are forced to either stop or pull back due to traffic, due to
vehicles continuing to enter the intersection on the red light. Uh, and that's ... the
intersections that we studied are based on where we've had the most complaints about red
light running, uh, instances. If we take that .6% and extrapolate that over a 24 -hour
period to ... to estimate total numbers of red light running, uh, at many of our medium and
higher volume intersections, that does translate into hundreds of vehicles a day, per
intersection, uh, running red lights. Be glad to answer any questions about that data.
Otherwise I believe Chief Hargadine had some comments as well.
Hayek/ Any questions for John? Thanks, John. We may (both talking) depending how the
conversation goes!
Hargadine/ Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Council. Uh, I wanted to take a few minutes to, uh, go
back to the presentation we made in March. As you remember, we looked at the Cedar
Rapids' model quite a bit, um, some of the comments that we heard that night were Iowa
City isn't Cedar Rapids. We don't have a similar ... we don't have the highways that, uh,
and the boulevards that Cedar Rapids has. That is a true and fair criticism; however, um,
as John mentioned, we do have, uh ... a lot of pedestrian, a lot of bicycles, uh, probably in,
uh, in a more dense situation than what Cedar Rapids has. So, uh, what to take out of that
model is the need to modify driver behavior. I think that is the same in both cities, and,
uh, I think the Cedar Rapids' model is a success story at doing just that. Modifying
driver behavior. Um ... I wasn't, um, all that surprised, uh, at the statistics. I drive a
plain, um, car and my ... I see it all the time. Uh, where are the police, I mean (laughter)
um, so and I get that, uh, criticism a lot. Unlike, uh, what John said, where most of the
criticisms come from, um, pedestrians. I also get a lot from ... from the bicycle
enthusiasts as well. There's three separate groups. Each one of them want enforcement
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on the other group, and um ... uh, we ... we have to balance all of it, and it all comes down
to modifying driver behavior. Uh, likewise, I will answer any questions as ... as well.
Champion/ So if ... the car is going to make a left -hand turn, you're kind of out in the
intersection, the light turns red, we all make left -hand turns on red lights then. We've all
done it. So is that person going to be charged with running a red light, with this ... by this
company, this so- called company?
Hargadine/ If you entered on yellow, then no.
Champion/ Okay. And ... so the bicycle... bicyclists complaining about drivers, are bicyclists
going across the street on the red light going to be given a ticket too?
Hargadine/ There's that potential! I think it has to be ... that's a ... an issue we need to ... to
discuss.
Dilkes/ Remember, we're not talking about giving a ticket to the person.
Champion/ I know that!
Dilkes/ But ... but, so that's the difference between a car and a bike.
Champion/ Oh, sure! Right.
Dilkes/ With the car we have a license plate. (several talking) ...the bike we don't have, usually,
a license.
Hargadine/ But you do have a law violation, so ... if ... if it were witnessed by a patrolman,
certainly that law violation, or that violator, could receive a ticket.
Champion/ Well, I'm not saying we should follow through, but I'm just throwing it out there.
Dilkes/ Well, yeah, if it ... but I think we need to be really cau ... careful here about what we're
talking about. Tickets being given to the person (both talking)
Champion/ ...my main objections to the whole thing is that it's not the person that gets the ticket.
Yapp/ Yeah, and one ... one clarification I want to make is that the ... the company that operates
this system does not issue citations; uh ... the City would have to do that. The ... the way
the system works is the camera and the video that the camera, uh, takes ... is used as
evidence, and then an officer still has to issue the citation, using the video evidence of the
violation.
Champion/ Right.
Yapp/ Um... similar to a security camera at a convenience store. That can be used as evidence.
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Bailey/ So how much time will that take?
Hargadine/ You know, I ... I wish nobody ever got fined from these things because it modified the
behavior. Uh, it's ... we really don't know how much ... how many, uh, tickets it's going
to generate. We don't know how much revenue it's... because, um, it's one of those
things that you almost have to ... to, uh, be involved in before you know what the
experience would be.
Bailey/ Right, but... so to review a tape is you sit and I guess...
Hargadine/ The computer...
Bailey/ ...to you, I mean...
Hargadine/ It does.
Bailey/ I guess how is it reviewed? Are you going to live through a day as an officer,
reviewing... okay.
Hargadine/ No, the computer system knows when there's a violation and flags it. So you don't
have to review the entire day's worth. There's a bank of. ... um, I'm guessing between 5
and 10 an hour that it wants you to review. And, um ... you know, the ... the human being
may not agree with the computer that it's ... that it's a violation. So, that's the purpose of
it.
Bailey/ So it won't be ... I mean, part of the argument here is we simply don't have the person
hours to enforce this to the degree that it needs to be enforced to maintain the level of
safety we'd like to see, but it's not a ... I mean, it will involve some officer time, but we
don't have any estimate of what that might be to balance it out, of what it might take to
enforce it with human beings. Or to enforce it (both talking) human beings and cars or...
Hargadine/ Yeah, it will take officer time.
Bailey/ Uh -huh.
Hargadine/ Um, since it's a, um, it's not a state citation, and won't require that it's a sworn
police officer. It, uh (mumbled) community service officer...
Bailey/ Okay.
Hargadine/ ...would suffice. A front desk person, for example. Um ... and our goal is ... was to
free up district officer time by reducing the number of accidents that they're presently
working. If we can modify the behavior, reduce the number of accidents, that will still
have the effect of freeing up officer time.
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Bailey/ Okay. But we don't know cost (both talking)
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Champion/ Chief, um ... I mean, I've been reading some of this stuff, um....says there's actually
been an increase in rear -end collisions, which are not as dangerous as whatever you call
that t- collision. Um, so ... have you read anything about that or can you address that
issue?
Hargadine/ I have. And I think that, um ... it's not ... that has happened in some intersections
throughout the country, and you're ... you made the valid ... you made the point yourself.
That is, uh, a more desirable, uh, accident to have than other than that t- crash. The t-
crash is much more likely to, uh (mumbled) serious injury, uh, or fatality. Uh, and ... but
not every intersection, um, has ... has seen the rear -ends increase, but it has in some.
Wright/ I think one thing that I keep coming back to when I'm looking at the data and ... and
thinking about this is not so much, uh, crashes with cars as crashes with pedestrians. I
thought it was very telling that we have two very high pedestrian intersections coming
into play here. Uh ... I'm much more concerned about cars hitting pedestrians than I am
about cars hitting cars. Cars hitting cars at relatively low speeds, there's a better chance
nobody's going to be injured. Cars hitting pedestrians, even under relatively low speed,
somebody's hurt!
Champion/ We got a letter in our packet. I kind of like it. She's saying when we look at all
these statistics, uh, but when it comes right down to it that 98% or more of people in Iowa
City who are driving are obeying all the rules. And so do we make a law to cover...
Wright/ Don't we make that law already?
Champion/ I know, but...
Wright/ ...everything we do is covering the 2% that disobey.
Champion/ I know! I know! I just have problems with cars getting citations. And it takes a
while. It's a long time before they get them.
Bailey/ How did you chose the intersections?
Yapp/ Uh, these are the intersections that we've gotten, uh, concerns, complaints... about.
Bailey/ Okay. I guess you said that. Thanks.
Hayek/ Are there, uh, measures we haven't yet attempted, uh, whether it's um ... you know,
lengthening the delay and light switches, you know, where you have to sit there a little bit
longer after...
Yapp/ Yeah, all ... all intersections have a, uh, what's called a yellow clearance phase, uh, which
is the yellow light, and then there's also a short all -red phase at the end of the yellow
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clearance phase. Um... and those are based on traffic volumes and traffic speeds. And
they all meet the ... the standards. Um ... some communities have increased the all yellow,
and the red, and the result of that is drivers ... learn that they can continue to ... to go. Um,
you know, it's at the tail end of the yellow phase where motorists continue to go through
the red light, um ... whether they're in a hurry or just not paying attention, that's... that's
different every time, but, um, other... enforcement and tools of enforcement is ... is the
thing that makes a difference.
Hayek/ What about lengthening the all red? Which would be completely annoying if you're in
your car, but uh ... as a suggestion I heard that...
Yapp/ Yeah, and that's...
Hayek/ Everybody sit there, gives a (both talking)
Yapp/ ...that would be possible, certainly, to do. Uh, that would result in more overall delay.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Yapp/ At the intersection for all motorists, including pedestrians.
Champion/ We have these ... these two major intersections where the so- called, uh, red light
runners are larger than most other intersections. In other high pedestrian intersections,
we have the whole thing with everything's red except for the walk signs. Like at, um,
Iowa and Clinton.
Yapp/ Uh -huh.
Champion/ I don't have (mumbled) Hoover School and Longfellow.
Wright/ Yeah, they have that ... they have one of those at Jefferson and Gilbert.
Champion/ Yeah, so...
Yapp/ It's called a lead - pedestrian phase.
Champion/ Right.
Yapp/ Uh, where the pedestrian has about a 3- second lead -time to get themselves into the
intersection, um, and be visible in the intersection before the other traffic starts.
Champion/ I mean, I think we can do other things to ensure pedestrian safety besides, um ... I
don't mind technology. I just don't ... it just ... as you know, I don't like this little thing
so ... I'd like to find other ways to handle the problem.
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Wright/ Problem is though if you're a red... somebody who's running the red light, they're not
going to pay any attention to the fact that they're all red, and you have a walk signal.
Champion/ I'm not sure that ... they certainly do at Iowa and Clinton.
Wright/ I watched somebody run that light today.
Champion/ Well, maybe you ought to get a police badge! (laughter and several talking)
Wilburn/ The ... I was looking at the letter from you, Chief, or I guess it's from both of you, uh,
about the Iowa experience, looking at the Center for Transportation, Research, and
Education at Iowa State, and it talks about just the range in the decrease in the number of
crashes. The Davenport experience versus the Council Bluffs experience. Did they take
any speculations to ... what the difference between the two communities was...
communities were, for that pretty big variance or...
Yapp/ Not that I recall. Uh, it was just a report on the data. Uh, but both did experience an
overall decrease in overall collisions.
Wilburn/ Uh -huh. Do you recall ... was there as dramatic a difference between the two
communities in just red light runners, inclusive of collisions, but just the red light (both
talking)
Yapp/ Oh, before the cameras? I do not recall. I can find that for you though.
Wilburn/ Okay. I'm just curious as to where Iowa City would fall in that range.
Yapp/ Right.
Hayek/ What does, uh ... a typical contract with one of these vendors look like? Is ... is there a
way of sun - setting it, you know, is it a term of years, then ... the City has to look at it, or
are you locked in for quite a while?
Hargadine/ I think it's negotiable. Uh, I'm aware of cities that have ... have fired one company
and hired another. Or, abandon it totally. Uh, if it doesn't, uh, lead up to expectations.
Um ... I think it's ... it's, uh ... urn ... there's so ... there's so much competition out there
amongst the companies, um ... and ... I heard as soon as this made it in the packet, uh, the
companies were already calling (laughter) just a little bit of our time, and um, uh ... I think
that helps ... that that helps drive the market as well.
Champion/ Well, if the Council decides to do this, why don't we hook up our own cameras to a
computer? It's not difficult. I have cameras hooked up to the computer at my house.
Hargadine/ I think the technology is actually quite expensive. Um, the marrying the cameras to a
computer, and all the software, um ... I think you're ... that would be a multi - million dollar,
uh, project.
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Yapp/ Not ... the benefit of, uh, implementing the system through a private vendor is that there is
no cost ... to the ... to the City. Uh ... the ... vendors enter into it for the desire of cost, a cost
stream, uh, down the line, which is negotiated between the City and the vendor as to the
amount of each, uh, violation, how much of that amount would go to the company versus
the City. In most of the cities where these have been implemented, revenues do go down
over time because motorists learn to modify their behavior. And that ... that brings us to, I
guess what we're looking for from the ... from the Council tonight is, is there a majority in
favor of staff to start, uh ... discussing and negotiating with these private vendors and
bring a proposed contract to you, uh, in several months.
Dilkes/ (several talking) ...proposed ordinance.
Yapp/ It... it would also require a local ordinance change to be consistent with the, uh, state code
regarding these types of violations.
Champion/ I had one more question. I forgot what it was. (mumbled)
Mims/ While you're thinking ... um, of these intersections that are in the memo, how many of
these would you recommend, if we decide to move forward? How many of these would
you recommend that we put cameras at? Or have you gotten that far?
Yapp/ I would suggest we start with between 5 and 7... intersections. I've not talked about this
with the Chief directly, but I would recommend that we concentrate on the intersections
that have high pedestrian concentrations, which are the near - downtown, uh, type
intersections. Um ... as well as the ... the intersection that does have a higher rate of red
light running collisions, which is Sycamore Street and Highway 6.
Mims/ Well, and with the speed on Highway 6, I would think those could be a pretty bad
accident too.
Yapp/ Yes.
Bailey/ You know, I am not crazy about cameras. Um, I'm fonder of red light cameras than
speed cameras, and the number of times that I've entered this intersection out here with a
car going for the red, that's why I was surprised that, uh, Washington and Gilbert wasn't
on the list, but maybe I should complain more when that happens. Um ... I think that there
is a real safety concern here. I mean, Mike's point is well taken. When we talk about a
heavy... heavily pedestrian area, and the number of red light runners in those areas, it's
concerning. So...
Mims/ Yeah, I...
Bailey/ I think it merits exploration.
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Dickens/ I think there is a big behavioral difference... just since we've started talking about this.
I just notice my own self when I come up to a corner and I see that light blinking on the
seconds til it changes, I don't speed up anymore. I slow down (laughter) ...just, it's
already created ... at least some thought. And I think that's maybe as big as anything, as
giving tickets, is getting people to think differently about how they're driving. You
know, so you wait a couple more seconds. It's ... it's 20 or 30 seconds for the next light to
change. And I think that's probably a bigger thing to me than the citations themselves is
the change of thought.
Wright/ (mumbled) really want with something like this is a change in behavior. This is just
another... another way to ... to get at that, and that's... because of the safety aspects of this,
I think this actually makes a lot of sense for ... for these heavily pedestrian intersections
that we have. We have a lot of bicycles. We have a lot of pedestrians.
Bailey/ A lot of pedestrians who don't, yeah, who aren't' necessarily looking for cars that are
running, I mean...
Dickens/ They're texting!
Bailey/ Yes, exactly! They're...
Wright/ They're just thinking about something else!
Bailey/ Yeah, absolutely!
Mims/ Yeah, I'm not real excited about putting cameras up.
Bailey/ Yeah, I'm...
Mims/ Okay? I'm not. Um, it does not bother me that the citation goes to the owner of the car.
I think in the majority of cases, uh, it's the owner driving, or they have control over who
drives their car, whether it's their teenage kid or their spouse or whatever, they have
control over it. So ... one or two of these, and they might have some changes in their
household about who's ... who's driving the vehicle. So that ... that doesn't really bother
me. Um ... I ... I think the safety issue is, you know, we have some very heavily traveled
intersections, by both cars, pedestrians, and bicyclists, and as Mike said, you know, the
vehicle on pedestrian or vehicle on bicyclist accident, you know, we're looking at very
potentially fat... fatalities in those cases. Um ... so on the one hand it's not something I'm
excited about, but from a safety standpoint, um, I'm willing to move forward and look
at... see what we could come up with in terms of a contract and start with, um, you know,
5 to 7 intersections that are real heavy pedestrian ones. I mean, just personally I think
two days ago I was going west on Burlington, driving, uh, at Gilbert and I was going to
turn left and so there was on- coming traffic and I just pulled out into the intersection like
every ... the light was green, waiting for the traffic to stop, and it turned yellow, and the
guy in the outside lane had stopped, and I guess I just wasn't focusing and so I started to
turn and the person in the inner lane was flying through that intersection, and we didn't
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hit, but their ... they left some rubber on the road, avoiding hitting me. And, uh,
so ... pedestrian would have been in bad shape.
Hayek/ Well, you're not the only Councilor just about got creamed. Uh ... three weeks ago I was
at your number one intersection, Dubuque and Market, and uh ... uh, almost got t- boned,
and it was the closest I've ever come to a major car accident in my life. Um, and I think
my tires are still smoking. Um... so, one anecdote does not compel one way or the other,
but urn ... you put a pedestrian in that place, and you've got a different outcome. I think...
I think on ... I think unbalanced because of the... our... our heavy ... the presence of so
many pedestrians and bicyclists, and especially pedestrians. Um ... with varying levels of
paying attention, urn ... that they exercise. Uh, in this ... in this dense area. I ... I think it's
worth looking at, and I... (mumbled) to know if we can set this up in a limited fashion
with ... with a sunset or a revisit date where a future Council can take a check in two years
or some period of time and say, you know what? This is not working for us.
Champion/ They can always say that!
Hayek/ Take it out. Yeah, but ... but, you know, depends on the contract you negotiate with the
vendor. I mean, if there's a ... you know, they're going to make an investment. So I'll be
interested to see what they're willing to do. And so I reserve judgment for that, but I
think this is worth exploring, um, and let's see what we can find out in terms of the level
of commitment the City would have to make on our side of the balance sheet.
Dilkes/ I do think if there's that level of competition out there it ... you know, I'd be very
optimistic about our opportunity to negotiate what we want.
Bailey/ And as uncomfortable as I am, I'm looking at this as ... as something we are doing for
safety and our concept of complete streets, and making it safe for pedestrians and
bicyclists, and ... and drivers, obviously. So, I think ... yeah.
Yapp/ Is the feeling ... if a majority are in favor of proceeding with the red light running cameras
to hold off on the speed cameras? At this point?
Bailey/ (mumbled) red lights. Let's not ... let's not mix `em up. Let's...
Mims/ Yeah, I'd rather start with red light (several talking)
Bailey/ Let's not (mumbled)
Hayek/ Notice you guys didn't focus on that either. (laughter)
Mims/ Just out of curiosity, where ... where would be the high ... the primary locations for speed
cameras?
Hargadine/ I suspect that the data is going to match what the ... what you already see, because if
you know you've got a red light coming, you're going to speed up. I suspect that you're,
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um ... you're increasing... you're going over the limit to try to get through it. And I think
that's the argument for doing speed is, um, to keep them down. If ... if someone goes
through a 30 at 55- miles -an -hour, they may have a green, but they're still violating a
speed law. So...
Champion/ I think it'd be really easy to catch a lot of speeders, since most of our speed limits are
25- miles -an -hour in town.
Hayek/ Okay, so you've... you've got the...
Hargadine/ ...maybe something we would come back, if ... if, uh, speed along a certain avenue
was an issue, we may reapproach you and say, look, uh, at this particular intersection, it's
not red lights, but it is speed so ... that's something we may come back and ask you for.
For a particular area.
Bailey/ I'm assuming these cameras are there. They will gather ... data, I mean, so we
would ... we might have that information as a result of...of using red light cameras if we
proceed. Is that... a...
Hargadine/ There are some vendors that, um ... there's a video going 24 -hours a day, 7 -days a
week, and...but when the system detects a red light violation or a speeder, it...it flashes
a ... a digital image. But, you may have videos of crashes that, uh, we wouldn't have
already ... we wouldn't have normally had. Um...
Bailey/ But what I'm saying is it could lay some groundwork for a ... further exploration of...of
areas where speed is a concern.
Yapp/ Yeah, and that's something we can check and negotiate as part of the contract, to collect
that speed data. At the same time.
Bailey/ Thanks!
Hayek/ I think it's also important for us to recognize that ... that other communities are already
doing this. Uh, and ones that I would consider our peers — Davenport, Cedar Rapids, Des
Moines, you know. (several talking)
Bailey/ Although our ... our pedestrian, I mean, our ... I think our safety concerns are even greater
though.
Wright/ Yeah, we have significantly more pedestrians and bicyclists than those communities.
Bailey/ Yep!
Hayek /Okay.
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Mims/ I have just one last question. When ... when you're looking at the vendors and the kind of
system they have, typically are they using the exact same cameras for detecting speeders
as they are red light violations? Or is it a totally different set -up that they have
(mumbled)
Yapp/ My understanding is for intersections, it is the same camera. Uh, communities that have
implemented the speed cameras, such as I -380 in Cedar Rapids, there's a ... you can...
have a speed camera that solely collects speed. But the cameras at intersections can do
both.
Mims/ And do both. Okay.
Hayek/ Okay, any other questions? Chief, John, thank you very much. (several talking) Next
item ... review traffic calming policy. John, you again.
Review Traffic Calming Policy (IPS and 3x(16):
Yapp/ Good evening! Uh, we wanted to bring the traffic calming policy to you to see if a
majority of Council would like any changes to the, uh, criteria, uh, to the traffic calming
program. Uh, a little bit of background. TheAhe traffic calming program was adopted
by Council in 1996. So, 15 years ago. Uh, the genesis of the program was due to the
high volume of, uh, concerns from neighborhoods related to traffic speed and traffic
volume, and through discussing that with Council, there was a desire to create a program
with some objective, measurable criteria, uh, by which to judge the traffic speed and
traffic volumes, uh, in neighborhoods, and have consistency in how we treated different
neighborhood streets in determining whether they qualified for such a traffic calming
program, or not. Uh, the three main criteria associated with the program are traffic speed,
uh, and to qualify the 85th percentile speed, which is a unit of measurement the traffic
engineers use, meaning that 85% of drivers are at or below a threshold. Um, 851H
percentile speeds must be at least 5 miles per hour over the posted speed limit. So if it's
posted 25, the 85th percentile speeds must be at least 30, uh, to qualify for the program.
Uh, traffic volumes is the second criterion, where traffic volumes have to be at least 500
vehicles a day for a local street, or a 1,000 vehicles a day for a collector street, in order to
qualify under traffic volume. Uh, and then the third main criteria is that a majority of the
neighborhood residents are in favor of traffic calming on their street. Uh, and we've
brought the program criteria to Council about four times in the past 15 years, and the one
change that was made was to that neighborhood, the percentage of neighborhood
households in favor of the project, changed from 50% to 60 %. Uh, and that was, I
believe that was following the installation of traffic calming on Highland Avenue. Um, if
some of you ... I see... Susan grinning. Some of you recall that, uh, there was a slight
majority of resident households in favor of that project. After it was implemented, uh,
both residents and people who use the street, um ... advocated to have that traffic calming
removed, uh, and that gets me to my next point. Because it is a ... a program driven by,
uh, neighborhood households, um, we do resurvey the neighborhood after one year of
installation, and if the residents, for whatever reason, do not like the traffic calming that
was implemented, the City can come in and remove the, uh, traffic calming devices.
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We've had two instances where, uh, installations have been removed. Uh, on Fourth
Avenue and on Highland Avenue. Um ... to put tonight's discussion into a little bit of
context, we've had, uh, three recent requests for traffic calming, uh, in Iowa City. Uh,
number one was on Tipperary Road between Shannon Drive and Dublin Drive. Um...
and that, uh, street met all the ... they met the criterion, um, and speed humps were
actually just installed last week, uh, on that street. Uh, the second example is on Court
Street between Summit Street and Muscatine Avenue, and then was one that we
discussed with you earlier this spring. Uh, that street did not meet the current criteria
because the traffic volumes ex ... exceeded the maximum threshold of 3,000 vehicles a
day. Uh, and that maximum threshold was in place because of the concern with, uh,
traffic calming on higher volume streets, uh, can and does result in traffic simply being
shifted to other streets, and thereby shifting the traffic burden, if you will, to other, uh,
nearby streets. Uh, the third was on Brown Street. Uh, and we found that the traffic
speed, and the volume, did not meet the minimum thresholds, uh, for traffic calming
installation. The ... the traffic speeds, 58th percentile speeds, did not meet the criteria, and
the minimum volumes ... the volumes measured were about 680 vehicles a day, and
because we classify Brown Street as a collector street, they did not meet the collector
street threshold for volumes. Uh, tonight we'd like to discuss if you would like to, uh,
change any of the criteria for the traffic calming program. The one change the staff is
suggesting... is that for streets with over 3,000 vehicles a day, such as ... with Court Street
between Summit Street and Muscatine Avenue as ... as the example, uh, that they would
be qualified for the program. Um ... but that we would pursue what I would call softer
traffic calming measures that would not result in as much traffic diversion to other
streets. Uh, I've done some research recently on traffic calming in other parts of the
country. Uh, traffic calming devices like speed humps do result in ... in motorists self -
selecting to use other streets. Uh, traffic calming installations like curb bump -outs which
are, uh, extending the curb line at intersections, um ... can result in lower traffic speeds,
but not as much traffic diversion. Uh, devices like medians do largely the same thing, uh,
a median can result in lower speeds but not in as much traffic being diverted to other
streets. Be glad to take any questions.
Champion/ Well, I like that idea. I don't think Court Street's going to divert many cars onto
other streets because ... it would divert it to Muscatine, and that's already, you know, a
busy street and people are using that as a cut - through, um, using Court Street as a cut -
through from Muscatine and (both talking)
Yapp/ Yeah, I think people are using it to get to Summit Street and the Summit Street bridge.
Champion/ Exactly! And I... and I do think when the First Avenue grade separation is done
that's going to reduce the traffic on Court Street. Um, so I'm in favor of your change.
think they could use some mild traffic calming on Court Street. Um ... and I think over
the years it's going to correct itself. It is used as a ... pass through. That's probably the
wrong turn, but you know what I mean.
Yapp/ I know what you mean.
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Champion/ So you don't have to go up to the stoplight at Summit and Burlington.
Wright/ I like the change you proposed because it does give streets with a higher traffic volume
some options. Um ... cause right now Court Street's kind of shut out of the traffic calming
program (mumbled) of traffic. This would, I think, change that. And I also had a
question about Brown Street. The traffic, um, just kind of discussing these all as a parcel.
Yapp/ Sure.
Wright/ Uh ... the traffic volume for a collector street is relatively low at, what, 680 we said?
What's the street classification below that? Would that just be a residential street?
Yapp/ A local residential.
Wright/ What would be the threshold for...
Yapp/ Uh, 500 vehicles a day.
Wright/ 500, so it'd be ... it's over for a residential street but under for collector.
Yapp/ For volumes (both talking)
Champion/ I would think that brick roads would be a traffic calming. Especially bad shape.
Wright/ I can't fathom (several talking)
Yapp/ Yeah, one of the ... you know, as we investigated Brown Street, one of the things we heard
when we were, uh, observing is ... is the traffic noise, due to the brick street, and actually
did take some measurements and they are about 10 decibels higher than a non -brick
street.
Bailey/ Well, I agree, I like this change, um ... and what I've always appreciated about this
program is, you know, what you highlighted, is it's consistent, it's responsive to
neighbors, but there's a consistent standard so it also takes into account, um, the
potential of diverting traffic, which has an impact on a greater area. So, I think it's a
great program, and I think with this little change to address some of those issues and,
Connie, I think you're right. I think once that grade separation, but you know ... we're a
little ways away from that so ... something in the meantime probably would be helpful.
Mims/ I think it's a good suggestion. I'm supportive of the change.
Hayek/ I ... I am too. I, um ... I ... not sure I know how to articulate it, but it ... we have many older
neighborhoods, certainly not designed as collectors or arterials, but as a changing
landscape of the community where people live and reliance on transportation, etc., and
just the unfortunate geography they may occupy on the city's map. (mumbled) Court
Street as a pass - through, become (several talking) heavily used roads, many times with
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faster moving vehicles, and I think we can't apply a single standard to ... you have to...
you have to recognize that ... that those streets, you know, need some protection, uh,
because those homes haven't moved in all (both talking)
Yapp/ Right.
Hayek/ Residents are still living, uh, just as close to the road as they were before. Um... and this
is largely a problem in our ... in our older, denser streets.
Yapp/ Right.
Hayek/ Where the traffic is the (both talking)
Yapp/ And I ... as ... as the community grows, certainly on the ... on the perimeter there's more, uh,
traffic traveling into the downtown and the central core of the city because we have such
a strong downtown. And, the University campus, and so much employment, uh, in that
center corridor of the city, which is positive, very positive, but the result of that is that
there's some of the older streets not necessarily designed for that level of traffic, do carry
a traffic burden.
Wilburn/ It might be helpful in the program description for the traffic calming measures that
would tend to lead people to divert traffic to other streets to specifically list those out,
um ... I understand that, you know, technology, future technology may lead to other
mechanisms, but, um ... unless people see a menu of, "I can do this, but I can't do that," I
would think (both talking) staff member it may open them up for (both talking) ... avoid
Johnson if we can't and so we want to go to ... do you see where I'm going with that?
Yapp/ Yeah, I do. It would avoid creating false hope for ... for some devices. Yeah.
Bailey/ So, if we would add this new... criteria... our budget is pretty small, I mean, I think that
there might need to be some consideration in discussion in future budgets about that,
because it could have more ... more streets in the program, and I don't know, I mean,
these are minimal... minimal sort of...
Yapp/ Yeah, the current ... the current budget is, uh, $30,000 a year.
Bailey/ Yeah.
Yapp/ Um, the one -year that we exceeded the budget was the year, uh, speed humps were
constructed on Kennedy Parkway.
Bailey/ Right.
Yapp/ Um, so far in every other year the... the... the streets that fulfill all the criteria including a
majority of the neighborhood being in favor of the project, there's been a couple three a
year.
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Bailey/ Okay.
Yapp/ Um, but that is something we would need to monitor. Uh..the level of requests versus the
budget available.
Bailey/ And are these (both talking)
Wilburn/ Is that from road use tax? I can't remember.
Yapp/ It is.
Wilburn/ Okay. All right. (mumbled)
Bailey/ (mumbled) Um, are these ... these installations for, on the new one, um, are they
comparable cost, to the other things that we do?
Yapp/ The recent installations?
Bailey/ The curb bump -outs, mini - circles, uh...
Yapp/ Those ... those (both talking) can ... speed humps are actually some of the lesser expensive.
Curb bump -outs, depending on ... uh, storm sewer intake needs and drainage and ... and so
forth, those can be a little more expensive.
Bailey/ So something that...
Yapp/ It's a case -by -case basis. Yeah.
Bailey/ It's something that might want to ... I don't know. Be brought up at budget time I
suppose.
Yapp/ Yeah.
Hayek/ So, apropos the budget issue, can you speak to the... sentence toward the end of your
memo where you indicate that the ... if we enact this change it would not allow funds from
the traffic calming program to be used on streets which don't meet the minimum speed or
volume thresholds.
Yapp/ Yes, the ... the current minimum thresholds for speed and volumes, uh, if you accept the
staff recommendation, would not change.
Bailey/ Uh -huh.
Yapp/ And so streets which do not meet those thresholds would still not qualify for the program.
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Hayek/ Okay. But this change addresses the ones that are on the other end...
Yapp/ Correct.
Hayek/ ...too much under our current ordinance...
Yapp/ Right.
Hayek/ ...to qualify for...
Yapp/ Right.
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Hayek/ Okay. But if, you know, in the ... in the instance of Court Street, we soften this so that if
you're in excess of 3,000 you can still qualify, um, our current budget could be tapped for
that.
Yapp/ Yes.
Hayek/ Okay. You know, it ... since Brown Street was mentioned let me just explore that a little
bit. In full disclosure, I used to live on Brown Street. Um ... I think it's more than 10
decibels louder than your average street, uh, but...
Wilburn/ Maybe you shouldn't drive so fast (laughter and several talking)
Hayek/ Um, you know ... we have ... (mumbled) has classified it as a collector.
Yapp/ Yes.
Hayek/ But I mean, can't you make the argument that that street was never intended to be a
collector either, you know, that the multi - family structures up the hill on Dodge came in
the 20th century, um ... and, you know, the use of Dodge and Governor as one -ways as
opposed to historically being two -ways is also a function of more recent changes in
traffic. I mean, we've... we've... the analogy is kind of similar to ... Court Street, isn't it?
Bailey/ Right but (several talking)
Hayek/ ...it opened up...
Bailey/ ...the biggest can of worms.
Yapp/ We also classify Court Street as a collector. Um ... yes, and ... Brown Street... functions as
a collector for those reasons you just mentioned, and I would agree it is unlikely that the
original intention was for Brown Street to function in that way, but because of land use
decisions, multi- family housing on Brown Street, uh, the fact that streets like Johnson
Street, North Johnson Street, North Linn Street, um ... the ... the traffic from those areas is
collected by Brown Street, collected and then directed either, uh, west to, uh, Dubuque
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Street and Gilbert Street, or east to Governor and Dodge. Uh, and the ... the, uh, multi-
family housing at Black's Gaslight Village, for example, is another land use decision that
the City made at some point in the past, which contributes to Brown Street functioning as
a collector street. And it's the northern most street in that grid street network, which also
contributes it ... to it functioning as a collector street.
Hayek/ And you've got Gilbert down to Kimball and (mumbled)
Yapp/ That also.
Hayek/ So maybe it's not so much whether we classify a street as a local or a collector, it's the
number... it's the minimum threshold, uh, numbers we attach to those. So in the case of
(both talking) it's 500 (both talking)
Yapp/ ...hand -in -hand, yes. I would agree with that.
Hayek/ And Brown falls in between. At six - something.
Mims/ What did they want?
Bailey/ What everybody wants: lower traffic by their houses.
Mims/ But it's already slow! I mean, the speed numbers, people aren't speeding on that street.
Bailey/ I don't think that's the impression. That's part of the challenge. At least in talking to
some people up there, it's just not the impression and then I think the noise adds to that. I
mean, I used to live on Brown and it does sound... fast.
Mims/ I don't see how people can speed on that street, I mean, as you said in the memo, with the
brick street and there's some nice dips in there, um, but I think ... I think another thing that
adds a lot of traffic on there is people coming from the north side that want to get across
the river, but aren't going on the interstate to get across the river, and if you go down
Kimball, depending on the time of day, you can't make a left turn. And so, instead of
cutting down Kimball, which also is not a good street to be a major collector either, uh,
they're going down to Brown Street, and I do this if I'm going to a football game or
something like that. I know there's a lot of traffic coming into town. I live out there. I
come down Dodge, hang a right on Brown, go down to Dubuque, hang a right, and then
hang a left across Park Road Bridge, because I know if I go down Kimball, I'll never turn
left. And so you take that whole north side of town, and even north of town that comes in
on Highway 1, and is trying to get across the river, if they're not going to take the
interstate and go across, but they want to stay, you know, the Park Road area over to the
athletic facilities or anything like that.
Champion/ It'd be logical that you'd do that (both talking).
Mims/ ...Brown is a major way that they will go.
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Bailey/ Well, and people whose routes were re ... retrained a little bit too in 2008 with the flood,
when they didn't have ... I mean, people were coming into town on Dodge Street, and then
cutting (both talking)
Mims/ ...cause Park Road was closed! (laughter)
Bailey/ Well, right, but they were cutting over on Brown, and...
Markus/ Once it's improved, traffic speeds are expected to go up. I think that's one of their
concerns too. So put the traffic control devices in at the same time the brick streets are
improved, cause the expectation (both talking) yeah. I think even ... even the residents on
Brown don't really care for the, uh, condition of the street that way, even though it may
calm to some degree.
Mims/ Calms the speed definitely!
Hayek /But (both talking)
Markus/ I would agree too that that traffic coming off, was it Dodge that's coming in, that that's
the major part of the collector function that (several talking). At least my impression of
what (several talking)
Wright/ ...your cut - through explains some of that ... I live south of that in the same neighborhood
so it wouldn't cross my mind to go up to Brown to go over, but coming down...
Mims/ Coming down, a lot of people use Brown to get to Dubuque to get to Park Road Bridge.
Wright/ One of the things that, in the conclusion you mentioned that neighborhood
representatives have discussed a project to implement traffic circles at intersections, not
just on Brown, but throughout the neighborhood. Um ... as a traffic calming device,
presumably and maybe adding some neighborhood character as well. So that wouldn't
create any issues other than we pay for it.
Yapp/ Right, and I think that'll be something to discuss as a ... as a separate CIP project.
Something larger like that (several talking) That would exceed the ... the confines of this
program.
Hayek/ Do you, other than Court Street, can you estimate other streets that would be eligible for,
uh, a calming approach with this change (both talking)
Yapp/ You know, I looked ... I ... I did look at...at other collector streets, for which we have
traffic counts, and there are not any, uh, currently that ... that exceed 3,000 vehicles a day.
That we have data for. Um, I do think as the community grows the traffic will continue
to increase on certain streets.
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Hayek/ Yeah. Okay, sounds like there's support for the recommended change in this memo.
(several responding) Okay.
Yapp/ Thank you.
Information Packets:
Hayek/ Thank you, John! Appreciate it! How we all doing? We're nearing the end, but if
people want to take a break (several talking) soldier through? Okay. Info packets, of
which there are three. First is July 7th. Anything on that? Okay. Next is July 21St
Okay. And lastly, uh, July 28th. Most of which we already covered.
Bailey/ And I have ... I have just a little bit of a question, in the ECICOG Express, and I've seen
this advertised as well around in other places, the commission that seeks public input on
transportation, I know it's easy to be skeptical about these kinds of things, but I think it's
always good to provide input. How are we planning to do that?
Markus/ Good question.
Bailey/ Or are ... or, I would encourage us to plan to do that, if...if we don't have a plan, I mean, I
don't know what others think. I think...
Markus/ I was giving Jeff the eye, so he's (laughter)
Davidson/ I thought Chris was coming up to (laughter and several talking)
Hayek/ There's your answer! (laughter and several talking)
Bailey/ (several talking)
Davidson/ Actually I am a little bit familiar with it. There's a series of meetings around the state.
I think the closest one is in Bettendorf, I think, as opposed to where we are, so, uh, if
there's a desire on Councils' part to make sure that we do have representation, either a
Member of Council or staff, uh, we can make sure that that meeting is covered.
Bailey/ I mean, it's not DOT but I don't know, I mean, I would respect staff's analysis of the
benefit, in minimally a letter, I mean, if...
Davidson/ Sure.
Bailey/ Thanks.
Davidson/ We'll talk about it with Tom and determine some way to make our input known.
Hayek/ Okay, anything else on July 281h? Okay. Moving on to Council time.
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Council Time:
Champion/ Well, I definitely wanted to bring up this thing I brought up before. There is a letter,
urn ... from the Partnership for Alcohol Safety, and I'm ... I would like the Council to
discuss these so- called exemptions where restaurants are actually acting as bars, um, and
getting by with it because they have an exemption, for one reason or another. I think
it's ... when you look at them, um, arrests for PAULAs ... you can pretty much pick out the
restaurants that are acting as bars, and I think combined with a University police presence
downtown, and our police presence downtown, the numbers are pretty staggering. And
I'd like us to look at addressing this issue of, um, exemptions, restaurant exemptions.
And I might be the only one interested (several talking)
Mims/ I think it's worth discussing too.
Hayek/ And I think we should, if for no other reason than Iowa City is a (several talking)
Dickens/ Is this a work session issue or...
Hayek/ Work session (several talking)
Dilkes/ I think staff would like to give you our thoughts on those recommendations as well
(mumbled)
Markus/ Yeah, I'd like to echo in on that. We have some concerns about, not to get into a long
discussion, we have some concerns about breaking out the, uh, cost or the ... the operation
for food service versus alcohol, and the difficulty that that is creating in terms of really
breaking those numbers down. I think people might look at that and think that that's an
easy determination, but we're not (mumbled) about that.
Champion/ Well, it may be more complicated than I think.
Markus/ Well, I think that there's ... I think that there's certainly need to discuss it, and ... but I
think what we want to make sure from a staff standpoint is that you understand our
problem in terms of the enforcement end of it. We understand what they've identified as
the problem, and maybe through discussions we can come up with other alternatives.
Champion/ Thanks.
Hayek/ Okay. Understood. Thank you. Other Council time? We need to, uh... schedule
reviews of our Clerk, City Attorney, and uh, Tom didn't come on until last fall, but
(mumbled) thinking about this and in talking with, um, staff, I ... I think it makes sense to
combine, urn ... our reviews of all three for ... for a single occasion. Urn ... I think it's ... I
think it'd be more efficient if...if all ... we'd all be thinking about reviews all at once.
Um ... and uh (mumbled) I know! (several laughing and talking) Anyway, I wanted to
take everyone's temperature, if ... if ... we need to do Eleanor and Marian this summer,
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um, Tom was a December hire, but, um ... uh, I suggest that he be part of it so we can
(several talking) sync these up. Is...
Champion/ Can we do it before or after a Council meeting, so we don't have a...
Hayek/ Oh, yeah, yeah! Exactly when we do it we can figure out.
Champion/ I'm flexible. (several talking)
Hayek/ Okay. I'll work on something and you guys' ll be contacted and we'll go through the
process. Okay. Other, uh, Council time? All right. Uh ... budget.
Budget:
Hayek/ Pending work session issues?
Pending Work Session Issues:
Mims/ Our list is getting shorter!
Hayek/ Yeah.
Wright/ We'll do something about that once summer's over. (several talking)
Upcoming Events /Council Invitations:
Hayek/ Upcoming events? Council invites?
Bailey/ Are others attending the Legislative presentation by ICAD in August? (several talking)
Yeah! I ... I'm attending, but I was wondering if others had gotten that invitation, for the
18t ", I think.
Hayek/ I need to sign up for that, yeah. (several talking) That's in September. This is ... I can't
remember what they called it, but...
Champion/ I did get the invitation.
Mims/ I think I did too.
Bailey/ Yeah, I think (several talking) so ... or invited, so ... just wanted to highlight that.
Hayek/ Okay. Other ... other events? Okay. Meeting schedule.
Meeting Schedule:
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Karr/ You have the memo in your packet regarding, uh, it's IP6, I think. It's, um, regarding the
possible orientation schedule. (several talking) Um, and I simply reviewed, um, the
November schedule in there, noting, um, the meetings you had and the fact we were
going to have a special work session on strategic planning, November 29th. And just
wondering, rather than scheduling another date, would you be willing to stay after that?
It would be the same group, and do, uh, orientation at that time.
Mims/ Fine with me. (several talking)
Karr/ Is that ... we can just schedule it there and just do it, rather than scheduling another meeting
and having the same group of people. (several talking) Okay. Great, thank you.
Dickens/ Do you need KXIC...
Karr/ Not this time, I don't think ... I think we're fine for one more. Let me just see (mumbled).
I think I'm fine for a little bit. No, I think we have staff filling in a couple times. I think
we're okay. (mumbled)
Hayek/ And before we call take off, let me ... let me float another idea out there. Um, and it has
to do with how we run, uh, work sessions and formals. Right now to the extent possible
we separate them Monday- Tuesday. Um ... uh, Tom and I were talking
about... experimenting with, if there's interest on the part of the Council, a slight
modification to that, whereby in a given month, assuming we have two formals, the first
formal would ... would, uh, that that week would have a Monday- Tuesday split work
session, formal, and the second would be a combined. Or vice versa, but... so that we go
from three gatherings... four gatherings to three, and ... and the thought was that, urn ... you
know, a lot of our work sessions don't take very long, and they can certainly be planned
so that they don't take very long. Um, some will if we're tackling a thorny issue. Um,
and if we could figure out a way to, uh, schedule the thorny issues for the separated work
sessions, and then the other one, the easier ones could be (mumbled) combined even, try
that. We're already I think ... just because of Labor Day and Halloween, doing that in
September and November anyway.
Champion/ It seems to work well.
Bailey/ Could we ... could you wait to make that change until after the first of the year, I mean,
some of us have kind of mapped out a schedule of travel that's contingent upon a 7:00
start on Tuesdays.
Hayek/ Oh, okay.
Bailey/ I mean, it just seems to make sense with the new Council, just to ... to wait. We've got a
couple of those ... those have been on the calendar. I mean, is that a problem?
Mims/ I think it's worth doing, but I can see, yeah, if you've made ... people have made plans and
we've only got...
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Bailey/ We've had this, I mean, some of us...
Hayek/ No, no, you've got (several talking) yeah, that's fine! Uh..I'm just throwing it out there.
Bailey/ Okay.
Mims/ No, I'm certainly willing to look at it. Interested in looking at it, but I agree. Wait til
after we start (both talking)
Bailey/ ...maybe talk about it in November with the new Council...
Karr/ You could talk about it at the orientation...
Bailey/ ... get it on the calendar.
Hayek/ Orientation time (several talking)
Bailey/ ...and people know what they're getting into, schedule wise.
Markus/ (mumbled)
Hayek /Okay. That's all I've got! Well, good meeting. Thank you. We'll see you all tomorrow
night.
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