HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-11-29 TranscriptionPage 1
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Hayek, Mims, Wilburn, Wright
Council Absent: Bailey
Council Elect: Dobyns, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Helling, Dilkes, Karr, Fruin
Introduction•
Hayek/ Let's call this meeting to order and hand it over to Marian! (laughter)
Karr/ Uh, the purpose of ... of today's... tonight's meeting is to go through a little, uh, orientation
with you. Um, we ... we encourage the dialogue among yourselves. Our role here is to
just review some ... some general um ... um information and um, also then I want to leave
tonight with, um, a meeting schedule in place to begin the budget. Uh, that's our primary
goal tonight. We can stay as long and answer specific questions as you like, but I think
what we'll do is do much more of a tag -team and a ... a general review of certain
specifics. If you have questions, please ask! And you can always call us at any time, of
course. But, um, there's a lot of information here and I think it's probably more of
something you digest on your own than we can read it to you. Okay?
Dilkes/ I'm just going to start off by hitting the highlights of the open meetings, open records,
um ... basically just kind of the basics and things that'll help keep you out of trouble. Um,
obviously governmental entities are subject, have to have ... hold their meetings in, uh,
public. That means that if there are four of you together, you cannot be deliberating on
public policy matters. Um, another ... a quorum of you ... unless it's a ... at a properly
noticed public meeting. Um, formally created committees of the City Council are also
subject to the open meetings act, um, such as our Economic Development Committee
and, you know, staff takes care of all the postings, etc., but... so really what I'm talking
about is your ... if you're out and there's four of you, somehow coincidentally together,
you just want to talk social things and not City things. Um, we have to give notice of our
public meetings 24 hours before, or the topics or the tentative agenda, 24 hours before,
uh, the meeting, and ... the important thing to remember about that is if you have, for
instance, a citizen that comes up during, uh, public discussion of items not on the agenda,
and they raise an issue, uh, that is not the time for the Council to engage in a discussion
about that issue because that issue has not been, uh, noticed on the agenda. So the way to
deal with that situation is if, um, a topic is raised that's not on the agenda, then you can
decide among yourselves at that point to direct staff to put it on a subsequent work
session agenda. Rather than talking about it that night. And...
Markus/ I think Dale's going to miss us! (laughter and several talking)
Karr/ Who? Who? (laughter)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 2
Dilkes/ There is no proxy voting. Um ... we have a resolution that, uh, allows Council Members
to participate if they need to, um, electronically; up to three Council Members can do
that. We can't have more than three doing that, um, because then it becomes an
electronic meeting that we have to have a ... a justification for. It has to be impossible or
impractical. Um, email communications pose a problem with the open meetings act
because... although there's no Iowa case law on this issue, the case law that there is in the
country says that if there is an email communication between four or more members of
the Council, and it ... whatever happens in that communication makes it so that you're
having a simultaneous discussion, um, that can be a meeting that you've not given notice
of. So I really advise Council members to be very cautious about, um, email
communication. To not email, um, among the whole group of you or more than three of
you, um ... frankly, just to stay away from that kind of communication. It's better to pick
up the telephone. Um, the other issues with email communications is obviously with
records, and some of you who we've had several records request where we've had to
contact Council members, um, get you to ... we have the capacity at the City to check, to
search for emails on the City's system, but if a Council member is using their own email,
um, then we often have to require you to check for communications on your personal
email, if they involve the City business that's being requested. Um, generally, I take the
position, because I think this ... this is consistent with Iowa case law and other decisions
in the country, that it's not the ... it's not where the communication takes place, but what
the subject matter of the communication is, and if...if you, as a public official are having
a communication, a written communication, about City business then that is likely a
public record. So the more phone communication the better; the less email
communication the better for all sorts of reasons and of course never put something in
email that you wouldn't be okay with having on the front page of the paper. Um... as
I ... I'm sure you're aware there are certain times when we can close a meeting. We most
often do that ... there's a lot of reasons for that. What we most often do that for, um ... uh,
litigation, uh, personnel issues, urn ... strategy when it comes to bargaining discussions.
Um ... with respect to closed meetings, um, if you have a discussion in a closed meeting,
that discussion should stay... at that meeting. Um, if the Council as a group chooses to
disclose the tape recording or to talk about that publicly, then that should be a Council
decision, not an individual decision of the Council member. So, if you vote to go into
closed session and you have a closed session discussion, you should not be discussing
that, um, outside that meeting, unless there's been a Council decision to do so. Now
there are times ... any final decision that is discussed in closed session has to be made at a
public meeting, so for instance, the decision to hire the city manager, while there were a
lot of closed meetings, um with the candidates, etc., the final decision to approve the
contract was done in open session. Um ... but even...even if there's ... even if the public
would not have access to the minutes of the closed session, there may be times when
those minutes will be available. For instance let's say a citizen alleges that you were not
properly in closed session. Um, and the judge is going to review that tape. Um, and
decide whether that can be made public, urn ... when a property ... with property
acquisition, when the acquisition is concluded, those, um, minutes are available, um,
so ... when you're in closed session, it's very important to stay on task, and I'm always
there and will remind you if I think you're getting off the subject.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 3
Throgmorton/ With regards to closed meetings, I can recall one situation in which, uh, in a
closed session the staff, uh, tried to get Council commitment to a particular project, uh,
and that created some difficulty because there was, given what you just said, there would
be no way to discuss the project with members of the public, our constituency. So, um...
Dilkes/ Why couldn't you discuss (both talking)
Throgmorton / Cause the subject matter (both talking)
Dilkes/ No, it's ... well, it's not the subject... well... no, it's ... you cannot discuss what you
discussed in the closed session with the public. (both talking) You can ... yeah, if you
wanted to get input on a topic, you could do that. Um, there are situations where I would
advise you not to do that (mumbled) matters.
Karr/ Or land acquisition might be another one where you wouldn't want to tip your hat that the
City was even looking at a parcel.
Throgmorton/ Well, and that was part of it because the project itself (mumbled) controversial
and as (mumbled) and yet ... you know, hands are tied. You're not supposed to talk about
it, because funding's involved, because (mumbled) closed meeting.
Dilkes/ Well, probably the best ... if you have questions about that, you should just ... you should
pose them to me, and we can talk about `em, because I suspect there are a lot of facts that
I'm not aware of that ... that it's hard to, urn ... to address, but we ... we would just...
Throgmorton/ (mumbled) (laughter)
Dilkes/ We would just ... we could talk about those, but generally, I mean, the reason you go into
closed... closed session is because you have a good reason to ... to do that, and so once
you do that and vote to do that, then what you discuss should not, um, should stay in
closed session, but I don't think that means you can't get input on a particular subject
from a constituent, for instance. Um ... there are, um, of course penalties for violating the
open meetings act. There are personal penalties, urn ... injunctions that can be issued, etc.
Um, there ... there are defenses to, um ... to a claim that you violated the open meetings
act. One of those is that you relied on an opinion of the attorney for the Council, and
when we go into closed session, my practice is to give you a memo about why we're in
closed ... what the... summarizing the topic, and I usually start off or end those memos by
saying it's my opinion that you're entitled to discuss this matter in closed session. Um...
okay, public records. For the most part, um, if you have a question about whether
something in your possession is a public record or you're required to give it to someone
who's asking, you should just let me know. And we can talk through that. There are a
lot of exceptions to public ... to the public records. Most of those are documents that are
held at City Hall, not by you. Um, the most ... I'm getting a lot more ... more frequently
getting requests for email communications between Council, between the members of the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 4
Council, between uh, Council members and certain ... and University officials or Council
members and (both talking)
Karr/ Developers.
Dilkes/ ...constituents, Council members and developers, um ... and uh ... oh, and another thing on
that point is that, generally we advise, and I think this is in the memo somewhere, um,
that ... that it's best to use City email, um, for your ... your business, City business
discussions.
Karr/ It's Al -57 is the page.
Dilkes/ And the reason for that is because we can search them. It's much easier to deal with an
open ... open records request if you're using City email. I know some of you that just
doesn't work from a practical perspective, and so if you're not using City email and
you're using some other email, I would not use the University's email, um ... um... you
need to somehow categorize those, keep track of `em, either ... or delete `em (laughter).
There is no ... there's no rule that says you have to keep your emails. Okay? So, um...
what I ... what I like people to do and I ... I try to do this for myself, and we don't have a
City -wide policy, but if you can for yourself say every so many months or every three
weeks I delete my emails, or every day I delete my emails, so that ... you would want
to ... you'd want to avoid the situation where, um, you're being asked for an email and
you said I deleted it, and then the response might be, well, did you get the request before
you deleted it or after. So ... if you have some kind of regular deletion schedule, that
helps with that. Um...
Wright/ If I could just toss in something that ... using the City's web mail server rather than using
the (mumbled) access that any place. It's not on your home computer and you can still
use your City email, and that's... that's what I've done (mumbled) solution.
Karr/ Uh -huh.
Dilkes/ That's what I do. I have my personal email account and I have my work email that I can
access (mumbled). Keep `em pretty separate. But that's the... that's... the clearest way to
do it. If that doesn't work for you then, I mean, we've had ... you'll just have to bear with
us when we need your emails (laughter). It'll take a little more conversation. Um...
Dobyns/ (mumbled) schedule questions or ...really have no political overtones at all, just simple
`can you meet at 4:00' the next day. I'd be happy to use my City email, but I'm not sure
everybody on Council reads their City email, uh, in a timely manner. What do you all
do? Just for simple...
Dilkes/ Now what are you...
Karr/ Are you asking a fellow member to meet you at 4:00?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 5
Dobyns/ ...meet me at 4:00.
Karr/ I would pick up the phone.
Dilkes/ Yeah.
Karr/ I can't rely on anybody answering (laughter) I mean, by 4:00 tomorrow, if it's time -
sensitive.
Dobyns/ Well, no, it's not time - sensitive.
Karr/ Okay.
Payne/ I mean like me with Planning and Zoning, sometimes somebody'll send an email back to
Bob and say `I can't be there,' so then they'll send out an email and say are we going to
have a quorum. Are you going to be here tonight? Well, if I had that on my... if that
happened and it was on my City email, I would never see it before I went to the meeting,
because I don't read it during the day. I mean, so that comes to my work email, you
know, are we going to (both talking)
Dilkes/ Right, and that's what I'm ... for some people it does not work for the use of City (both
talking) does not work. Generally... generally scheduling issues are probably not within
the, I mean, it's not a policy function. So it's probably not a, you know, a big deal. Um,
but ... you wouldn't want to send that email to the whole Council. I mean, if you want to
schedule... if you think (both talking)
Dobyns/ No, I mean...
Dilkes/ ...you're just talking about one person, yeah.
Dobyns/ ... from what you're telling me, and I talked to Mike cause we're both on the University
system, it sounds like if it's time - sensitive, get on the phone. If you don't, you know, if
you don't think they'll get to their City email, just use the phone. I think that's what
basically the gist of what you (mumbled)
Karr/ I don't mean to interrupt this, but I think it's a good time to talk about just emails in
general and expectations of... of use of them. Um, all of you will be asked and... and
easily can, um, be given a City email address. I suggest you don't activated it ... activate
it if you're not going to use it ... because constituents see it, staff sees it, it's on our
directory, we click on it. There's an expectation when you're in the phone book, you'll
answer your phone. There's an expectation, if you have an email address, you will get to
it in a `timely manner.' Now, timely manner is different to the beholder, but I can't tell
you how many times people will call me and said, "I sent something to Council Member
So- and -So, um, over the weekend and I haven't heard a thing." Well, this may surprise
you, but perhaps they didn't check their email. But the expectation of a lot of people
with email lately, and it's becoming more and more increasing, is that it's instantaneous.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 6
And it doesn't ... and so I'm just saying that same thing, and you go back to your quorum.
The...
Payne/ But I guess my question is this, does the City allow ... would the City allow me to get City
email on my PDA? Because my company doesn't allow me to. I have to have a
company PDA to get it, so (coughing, unable to hear)
Mims/ ...what I do, don't ask me how I did it, but I went in ... oh, I don't know, the last time I
changed email. I have all my email, it goes to my City email address, forwarded to my
personal email address. Because I would always forget to go in and look at my City
email, but my personal email is always open on my desk, on ... on my computer all day.
And so if you're good with it, you can figure out how to sort it as soon as it comes in and
you can just set up a folder that would be, you know, City...
Karr/ City and personal.
Mims/ ...yeah, stuff that has come in from your City email in a separate folder and then you, but
it would be there...
Throgmorton/ But then you have that expectation that you will answer.
Payne/ I do that with my ... cause I have a University email address too (several talking) so I
mean...
Dilkes/ They did set up ... at work, they set up my phone so that I (several talking) instantly
access my City email and my personal email so (several talking)
Karr/ ...and that is doable, but remember then when you get the open records request, then you'll
have ... the same issue would not be on the computer, it would be on your ... on your
phone.
Dilkes/ But if you're using City email, we can ... (several talking)
Karr/ Which is exactly right, Mike, yes.
Wright/ You can use web mail on your phone; I do it.
Karr/ Yes, that I think is the answer.
Dilkes/ But it's ... (several talking)
Wright/ ...on your PDA you just set it up as another email account but it's the web mail address
that you ... whatever settings, if you say check every hour, check, you know, download...
Karr/ Once a day, whatever. (several talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 7
Dilkes/ I'm ... I'm not a technical person but ... but web mail means you go on to the internet and
you find it that way (several responding). There's a ... there's an easier way. They set
mine up so that I don't have to go on to the internet and find it. I just push on a button
and there it is. So ... I know that's possible, yeah. So ... yeah.
Karr/ Yeah, we can. But as I said, I think you have to think about, and I ... I know a number
of.. of, um, current Council Members, think ... think about how you want to be contacted,
what the expectation is you want to give your constituents. If it's a... if it's a cell phone,
if it's a ... a ... a, um, an answering device that they leave a message, you call them back.
Whether it's an email, and what it means, because that will be consistently what staff will
be sending out ... and what constituents will be expecting a response to. Any emails that
go to the Council, not to individuals but to Council, as a group, will go ... will then be
distributed to all of you at the next Council meeting and accepted as correspondence, but
individual emails of course we don't have ... cause they come to you as individuals.
Wright/ (mumbled) sometimes twice.
Karr/ Uh -huh.
Dilkes/ Okay. That really ... when it comes ... other than the cautions about how you, what public
records you're creating, when it comes to whether something is a (both talking)
(male)/ (mumbled)
Dilkes/ ... urn ... yeah, when ... when we send out a confidential memo, it comes in a little
envelope like that. It's obviously not ... it's not scanned as part of your packet.
Karr/ It won't be electronic.
Dilkes/ It won't be electronic. Um ... um ... sometimes, urn ... just to make you ... in terms of the
public ... if they ... often if there is a request for a certain record that I have decided is a
public record and I'm going to release it, but I have some question about, um, oh, I'll
give you an example. For instance there's an exception for trade secrets. I've had a
number of developers over the years tell me something as a trade secret. I don't really
think it's a trade secret and I ... decide I'm going to release it and usually the practice I
follow is to give them notice that I'm going to release it within ten days, and if they want
to prevent that release, then they can seek, uh, an injunction. Um ... notes during ... taken
during a Council meeting are public records, but again there's no, um ... there's no
requirement that you keep them.
Throgmorton/ (coughing, unable to hear) ...read mine anyhow (laughter)
Karr/ Another secret weapon, Jim!
Dilkes/ I'm not going to spend a whole lot more time on public records because I think most of
those questions will come to me, specific questions that come up. So...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 8
Karr/ Um, we do have on page Al -59, we do have a sample of our internet electronic mail
policy. Again, once, uh ... we hear from you, you want to activate your email account,
this'd be the ... the terms, if you will, the policy that we would ask you to sign so that you
know how it operates and what the responsibilities you have and we have to you on the
internet, and it just reiterates a lot of what Eleanor's said now.
Dilkes/ I should also say on Al -57 is my memo that kind of summarizes the advice I give, I have
given you orally about email. Urn ... types of...
Karr/ Uh -huh, go ahead!
Dilkes/ ...types of measures. Um, the City Council can act by motion, resolution, or ordinance.
Um, we don't do a whole lot of motions, except on our Consent Calendar, um, it's kind
of a ... a quick, easy direction, urn ... uh, resolutions, you'll see a lot of resolutions
approving a certain policy or approving a certain time tract, or authorizing the mayor and
the clerk to sign a contract. Urn ... ordinances are, um, basically laws that apply to the
citizens, um ... just like a state law or a ... or a federal law. Um, in order to pass an
ordinance, we have to give it three readings, meaning we have to ... you have to vote on it
three times. There is a procedure to collapse those readings, um, it can be collapsed into
three. Some cities do that, and we have never done that in Iowa City. We sometimes
will collapse two, so that we read it twice. Um, it takes, uh, six people to collapse a
reading. So ... um ... but that's a ... that's obviously a Council decision.
Karr/ This is ... this is an age -old law that goes back to, again, what Geoff was talking about
earlier today. The impression is you can't rush it through. You can't do an ordinance
that binds somebody in one meeting, and then nobody had a chance to talk about it. So
this is why we've ... we've used the practice here of at least two meetings.
Dilkes/ Um, there are some times when a super- majority or an extra - majority vote is required.
For instance, in a zoning situation where you've got the requisite number of people
within a certain area who've objected and that, um, can require more than four votes. It
always takes at least four votes to get, make a Council decision. A lot of boards that
you've been on, um, often their by -laws will provide that if you have a majority there,
then it takes ... if you have a quorum there, which is a majority, then it takes a majority of
the quorum to pass. So if you have four there it takes three to pass. Not so with the City
Council. Um, it always takes a majority of the Members of the Council, which are ... are
seven to pass an item which ... which is four. There's one exception to that, and that is
when somebody is, um, has decided not to vote because of a conflict of interest. Um, for
instance, in the recent SSMID vote we've got three conflicted, um, members so we've
got ... we take the Members of the Council area the four remaining and it takes a majority
of those four, so it takes three.
Karr/ So if someone were ill or unable to attend, it could still proceed with three in that vote.
Right? Of the four. (several talking) Yes, of the four.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 9
Dilkes/ Right, but let's say ... but let's say you had, urn ... let's say you had ... no, if you had three
ill, it would take four. If you had three ill, it would still be seven. It would take four.
Karr/ Yes!
Dilkes/ If you have three conflicted, you've got four — it takes three.
Karr/ Yes!
Dobyns/ That's why I hardly ever see people (mumbled) necessary (mumbled) two - thirds vote.
Karr/ Well that ... yeah, I know that's something that ... that..that is true, um, Rick, but I think
that's something... um, Tom wants to talk about. Is he ... is Tom going to be back, Dale,
do you know?
Hayek/ Yeah, he took a call.
Karr/ Okay. Okay, cause I know that's something that ... that premise of...of seven being here
for all meetings, and I know that's something that Tom wanted to talk about so ... yes, that
is true, especially if it's something controversial or you knew it was a split vote, that
would be true, yes. We do have the provision on the electronic meetings though ... that
...that could be used. Um...
Dilkes/ And we won't, you know, we don't leave you alone on these things. We're just... this is
a lot of information (both talking)
Karr/ ...we try and anticipate, um, and ... and we ask that you keep us informed. If you know
something came up, or if you anticipate what if, we love to have it what -if d earlier,
rather than on the spot. (laughter)
Dilkes/ Speaking of conflicts of interest, um, you should ... if you have a question about whether
you have a conflict or not, or there is a conflict, you should direct those questions to me.
Uh, if you want a written opinion I can give you a written opinion, um, that will
obviously take some ... some lead -time. Um ... or I certainly advise on those issues, just
...just orally too as they come up.
Payne/ Can I ask a question on that?
Dilkes/ Uh -huh.
Payne/ Since I'm on Planning and Zoning, and I'm going to be voting on issues there, when they
come to Council I was told I wouldn't be able to vote on them on Council, and on
Planning and Zoning, that I'd have to recuse myself from voting on it on Council if I
voted on it on Planning and Zoning. Is that... correct?
Dilkes/ I think that's probably right, although I'd want to think about that a little bit.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 10
Payne/ Okay, so it's some ... that's something you might (both talking)
Dilkes/ Yeah, no ... I mean, that's a good question.
Karr/ Yeah (several talking) but we should check on that, yeah.
Dilkes/ (both talking)
Karr/ Cause we've had other Members come out of Planning and Zoning, as well.
Dilkes/ Yeah, but I don't know if it's been so close before. I ... I don't recall that I've ever
specifically addressed that issue.
Payne/ Okay.
Karr/ Or whether it'd make a difference either. See that's the other trick is that it's not just a
simple answer, it's going that next ... yeah. We also have the consultation policy. Um,
with City Council. When the Planning and Zoning Commission makes a
recommendation and Council believes it's in the best interest to go against that
recommendation, then we have a resolution and it ... it's in your, um ... packet of materials,
that basically says before that formal vote, before it is voted down, that a meeting be
scheduled with Planning and Zoning, a consult, so that both entities would have that
ability to talk and explain their vote, so it would be deferred. We would get a sense of
the direction the Council was leaning, and if we see that it's going to, uh, possibly go
against the recommendation, then we would ask it be deferred so we could schedule then
a ... consult with P &Z. We try and do that as quickly as possible, cause we know that
some of these are time - sensitive, and then it would be put back on the next meeting after
that.
Payne/ I think (mumbled)
Karr/ Yes, like we just did. Uh -huh, and it does not require an extraordinary vote. An extra -
majority vote after it. It can be as close as a 4 -3 vote, um, it...it just simply, we do
require that consult.
Wright/ (mumbled) voted it down.
Karr/ Well, the last...
Dilkes/ That one we didn't catch (both talking)
Karr/ That's two ago! The last one we caught!
Dilkes/ Right. The last one we caught. The one before the Bloomington Street one.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page I 1
Wright/ Right.
Dilkes/ You guys voted it down before ... we interjected and...
Karr/ Yeah.
Dilkes/ ...realized we...
Karr/ (both talking)
Dilkes/ ...do the consult, but we ... (both talking)
Karr/ We also suggested that potentially, that we put some standard wording in all of the, uh,
comments to remind all of us, cause it's been a while! To remind all of us that, um,
should there ... the recommendation not be accepted, it should be ... a consult should be
scheduled. Something that just keeps us kind of the forefront on that.
Dilkes/ Yeah. We have a standing rule that addressed what an abstention not... abstention for a
reason other than a conflict of interest is. We haven't had that issue since the Council
member who (both talking) creation of this rule was on Council (several talking and
laughing) but ... but (both talking)
Karr/ But we have one!
Dilkes/ Please don't abstain if you don't have a conflict of interest, but if you do, um, the rule is
it is ... will be a vote with the majority. Where in the cases ... in the case of a tie vote
(mumbled) vote in the affirmative.
Throgmorton/ I'd like to ask a question about that, not about abstaining (mumbled) related, um,
if there's, urn ... um ... what do you call ... a subdivision plat that comes before the Council
and its consistent with zoning, you know, there's nothing illegal about the subdivision
plat, but you think as a matter of policy it's not a good idea. Could a Council Member
vote negative on that ... so long as, you know, the ultimate vote is not a negative ... you
know, 4 -3 or whatever vote against (mumbled) subdivision plat in which case we'd go to
court and lose.
Dilkes/ Yeah. Generally, a Council Member can vote any way they want to vote. The question
becomes what the consequences for the City are. Um, and so for instance if someone
voted against a subdivision plat that was in complete conformance with all our rules and
laws, and somebody else voted ... it, you know, against it and we ended up having a
majority against it, we'd have a problem. And so generally ... I don't think that's a really
good way to conduct yourself because... because of that problem. Urn ... but ... it happens.
You know, people make votes of conscience or whatever and ... and, if I see that
happening... usually if somebody is talking, if a Council Member is talking about an
objection they have that I don't think is relevant, I will at least try and say so. And
then ... the chips fall where they may.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 12
Karr / And we've had individual Council Members state, I will be voting for this because.
It ... I'm legally bound to, there ... it meets all the requirements, but I personally don't like
it or...
Throgmorton/ I've done all three!
Karr/ Yeah...
Throgmorton/ I abstained, I voted for, and I voted against.
Karr/ Uh -huh, uh -huh (both talking) ...and the end result is the same.
Throgmorton/ Right.
Karr/ Yes.
Dilkes/ Generally if there's only one person on the Council doing that, it's... it's not going to be a
problem. If...you know ... okay. Oh, rules of procedure. Some ... a lot of ... there are a
number of cities that have very voluminous rules of procedures. We don't. We have a...
an ordinance that says we follow Roberts Rules. If we can read them in a way that's
consistent with the State code, and our own ordinances. Um ... and then we ... we have
adopted some standing rules, like the abstention rule I just told you about and ... that kind
of thing.
Karr/ Um, contact with staff, urn ... I think Tom wanted to cover that. Um, basically ... I believe
what we've followed in the past and what he's indicated, um, he intends to continue
doing and that's we have a ... two very basic policies. Number one, if...if a Council
Member ... we encourage you to talk to staff. Staff is always available; however, if a
Council Member's going to request research or a lengthy project of a staff member, that
takes considerable amount of resources, whether that is time, uh, money, whatever, we
ask that you go through the City Manager and /or come back to Council, so that we know
it is something that four of you are directing and request, um, it just gets very awkward.
Staff is ... is caught in the middle. They want to please you; they want to answer your
request. They don't want to say no! But it...it really is at odds if one Council Member
asks them one thing and another Council Member asks them to do the reverse, and it
takes twice the amount of time to create the ... the document. Um, in the past, the staff
member also then alerts the City Manager to the request, if the, uh, Council Member
hadn't, so that the City Manager knows that the staff is working on that, as well, because
again, one Council Member may be asking the City Manager to do something, and
another Council Member's asking a staff member to do something separately. So we...
we try to coordinate these through the City Manager's office whenever possible, uh, but
again, that isn't to discourage at all, calling a staff member and getting an answer or
information that is easily accessible.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 13
Fruin/ If I may just jump in on that real quick. One of the reasons that we like the
communication to go through the City Manager's office is sometimes when staff gets a
call from an elected official, that's kind of an overwhelming thing for them, especially if
it doesn't occur on a regular basis. So you may have a simple question or ... think you're
asking a simple question and ... and the staff person is ... may have a tendency to over-
react and ... and spend much more time on the issue than ... you really need them to, and...
and that isn't productive for ... for the organization. So if it gets filtered through our
office, sometimes we then can ... can say, hey, this is just what we need. it's ... it's coming
from (mumbled) on a regular basis, it takes away that intimidation (both talking)
Karr/ That edge. Uh -huh.
Dilkes/ In my office, um ... if you have a question ... a legal question that ... that I can answer off
the top of my head and I'm happy to do that, and you should call me with those
questions, and there are ... there are a lot of things like that, but if it's a complicated legal
issue, for instance, um ... questions about Sanctuary Cities, let's say, um, then will, um,
ask that you bring that up with the entire Council and see if the Council is interested in
having me pursue that issue.
Karr/ Um, following along with that, um, I'm sure we don't have to tell you this, but the City
Manager, the City Attorney, and the City Clerk all work for the City Council, while the
other, um, City staff members work for the City Manager. So that relationship often, um,
when you ask a question, needs to be considered as well. Um...
Throgmorton/ (mumbled) ....your office.
Karr/ There (both talking) people in my office report to me, as do the people in Eleanor's office.
Throgmorton/ So if it was in your offices we should go through the respective person.
Karr/ Yeah, I ... I would suggest that, to go through the respective per ... yes, right (both talking)
Right. Tom would be for City staff, separate from the City Attorney and the City Clerk,
yes (both talking) Yes.
Dilkes/ With respect to the attorneys in my office, um, I gave you a list of the assignments, um,
for the attorneys in my office, and I don't, um, have any problem with you calling the
attorneys in my office. Um, they're pretty good about calling me if they, if I need to
respond to it. So, urn ... that's not a problem for me.
Karr/ Um, the organizational meeting, uh, B, we, um, do by a Charter we elect our Mayor and
Mayor Pro -Tem, you elect them, at the organizational meeting after each election. So
every two years. By, um, Charter that has to be between January 2nd and noon on January
6th. And, at the same time, we make appointments to committees, and uh, we will do an
organizational meeting agenda and that agenda simply is nomination, election of a
Mayor, Mayor Pro -Tem, and appointments to committees. Um, that will be, uh,
something we discuss a little bit further on the agenda, as far as, uh, scheduling for
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 14
January... and February, cause we work that into our budget as well, but that is something
we are ... another thing we are constrained by ... by, um, a window of having to complete.
Um, I don't know if there's anything on organizational meetings. It's pretty
straightforward ... on that. Um ... work sessions ... uh...
Dilkes/ Let's just skip over the stuff that Tom needs to address and we'll come back to it when
he (both talking)
Karr/ Okay, how bout Council packet, agenda prep. Let's go down to E.
Dilkes/ Sure.
Karr/ And then we can go back to meeting schedules and things that Tom wanted to ... to go to.
Uh, Council packet and agenda preparation. We put in ... to your, um ... packet,
um ... information concerning, um, the procedures we have for, uh, agenda prep. We've,
uh, we're experimenting. We've had a change of personnel. We've had a change in, uh,
approach to the agenda, and um, now what we're doing is we're asking, um, all the
materials to come through the department head, that way the department head knows
what his or her department is putting on each agenda. It goes to the City Manager's
office and Tom or, um, his designee will review it, and if they have any questions, they
will ask it, and then it's forwarded to ... to me and my office, and we formulate the
agenda, after it's been through the department head, and through the City Manager's
office. Um, at that point then it goes to the agenda ... then goes to the City Attorney's
office as well for review. Um, the agenda is ready and distributed, um, our deadline is
9:00 Thursday morning for items. This allows for people being late (laughter). It allows
for, um, outside printing of the document. It allows for scanning all the materials, hyper -
linking it, and getting the packet out to you and available, no later than 3:00 on Thursday
afternoon. So for Jim or somebody else who's been around long enough, it used to be
Friday. We moved it up to Thursday, and I think there isn't anyone, um, complaining
about having it a day early (unable to hear person away from mic) and, uh, it also allows
then I think for the media and the public another day for them to contact staff, should
they have any questions, rather than getting it on a Friday afternoon, not being able to
contact anyone til Monday, and we would have our work sessions Monday night. So it
does allow, uh, a much better connect time. Um, right now our procedure for distributing
that information has evolved several different ways over the years. We went from... we
went from totally a hard copy that was distributed by Police... department to your home,
and then we went to a, um, lap top and a disc that individuals picked up, and now we are
to, um, we'd like to suggest to you that you consider the i -Pad, uh, possibility. What I'd
like to do tonight is just plant the seed, see if there's some interest in that. There's
considerable amount of cost savings as ... as far as staff time. Uh, there's an ease that
everyone would get it, um, at their disposal in the same amount of time. We will come
back to you with a proposal on whether we would issue the i -Pad, disadvantages and
advantages of it being a City -owned equipment, or advantages, disadvantages of offering
it to your own i -Pad. And there are advantages and disadvantages of doing that, but
before we spend any more staff time on it, um, I've been playing with it. Um, we've
been talking about this for some time, and um, we had renewed interest... North Liberty's
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 15
city council went on it recently, and all of them are thrilled. Um, I can tell you that it is,
um, very user - friendly. It is something you can search, if you just wanted to have it set
up and go to item 17, it'd immediately find it for you, which is a lot nicer than going
through the hard copy. Um, it also ... what I liked most about it and for those of you who
are not familiar with it, maybe everyone is, is the maps — I've found especially helpful.
When you reduce down ... a map this big and you reduce it down to an 8 1/2 by 11, with an
i -Pad you can center ... you can go right to the ... the section you wanted to see, and have it
enlarged. That is a much better, I think, product than what you're used to in a hard copy,
reproduced method, even if it is in color. So, if there is interest on the part of...of
Council to explore that, staff will come back with pros, cons, and a recommendation for
you. This does not affect the hard copy budget; we realize that document is large. It is
something you'll want, um, separately, and in that form for your deliberations. This
would only affect the weekly distribution.
Mims/ (several talking) so you're saying you would do the hard copy and (both talking)
Karr/ We would like to discontinue totally the hard copy, both in -house and out. And go... go
totally to the electronic. We believe it'll be a much better quality document for you,
much more user - friendly, and available... staff would do the same.
Markus/ Usually in a transition they run some redundancy for...
Karr/ Period of time.
Markus/ ...couple of meetings, yeah, get the kinks out of the system, um, usually (mumbled)
some tech support for the (mumbled) and make sure everybody can use it, and you'll be
surprised, you know, some of this stuff. You get a (mumbled)
Karr/ We probably (both talking)
Markus/ (mumbled)
Karr/ We probably would offer you training well ahead of a meeting. We would schedule a time
that you ... you could come in. For someone who's familiar, you could come in and get a
general orientation. I would hardly call it training. Take it home, and then we would be
available to call, or if somebody is not comfortable, would like a little bit more
individualized training, we would set up a time that you would do it, and then offer that
transition as Tom had outlined.
Mims/ Well, I know I've been it electronically for quite a while and little bit different than with
the i -Pad but with a .pdf and on my lap top and, I mean, when we get these 200 -page
packets, which, you know, doesn't happen all the time, but still, you know, I may have
five pages out of there that I really want hard copy of, to be able to ... more easily take
notes on. I'm assuming on the i -Pad is ... you probably could take notes pretty easily on it
(both talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 16
Karr/ You can. It is available. Just remember what the City Attorney said earlier, is that it's still
subject to ... open records, but oh yeah, there is an annotation, there's searching on it.
You can, uh, archive and keep the ... the individual packets ... for quite a period of time. I
think your whole term. I think it'll hold four years worth. Or you can get rid of them,
say, monthly and only keep a certain number of them or pick and choose, but yes. And
so...
Mims/ I really like the electronic because I've got so much paper in my house as it is (both
talking)
Karr/ ...what sold me a lot, there was a map, um, we will work with staff ...it's not flawless.
We'll work with staff who, um, who are very expert at reducing down to the minutia,
we're going to work with that, but I was especially... in your last packet you got
something, I think it was on the Peninsula development, and there was a map, and it was
multi - colored, but the ... the primary area you were concerned about was in the center, and
it was about this big. Well, what's great is you can even tell the multi - colors within this
section with the technology, you can go right to where you want. You get the general
overview of where you are, and then go right to where you want and blow ... and it really
was. That's what sold me was the mapping component. So we can come back to you if
there's interest by the majority of you, because I would ... I think staff's concern is that...
I hesitate ... we would like everyone to get it the same way, rather than three or four
different ways. (several talking and laughing) No, I ... I didn't say (laughter)
Champion/ (mumbled) (laughter)
Karr/ Sold! We're going to do it!
Champion/ I actually do have email!
Markus/ I just want to make one point. I got an email from a local resident and she was
expounding on the values, um, going with this technology and so I responded to
Catherine Champion (laughter). I said (both talking) yeah, I said I think it's a wonderful
idea and I think you need to talk to your mom and make sure she's on board with it
(laughter)
Karr/ So we will prepare, we'll take this information... if there seems to be general interest, we'll
take this information and we will do a ... a short cheat -sheet of the advantages of...of
offering it to you, with, uh, City equipment versus your personal equipment, and then a
stipend for that personal equipment. Um...
Champion/ I like the ... I mean, I like the idea of the i -Pad more than the computer because (both
talking) I like about this, I can sit in the chair in front of the TV and (both talking)
Karr/ Yeah! Yeah! (several talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 17
Champion/ (several talking) ...with the i -Pad. I take it in the car with me, I mean, I don't really
sit down and exactly read all this stuff (mumbled) and so (both talking)
Karr/ I think you will like that, Connie.
Champion/ ...more adept at that. I just don't want to sit in front of a screen (both talking)
Karr/ ...we'll be back to you on that then. (several talking) Um, any late items that we ... we
receive in the office. There's, the policy is contained in here that we have on that... those
items, as well. Any late items that miss the deadline for printing or distribution, if it's an
agenda item, and /or is timely, we will distribute it as a late handout at your work session.
Um, so you will have it in a timely fashion. If it is something that is not agenda- driven,
uh, it will wait til the next agenda. Um ... board and commission applications and gender
balance, and that you probably, if you've seen any of the packets, would be familiar with
that. The, um, State law changed ... we were a little ahead of the curve. We knew it was
going to change, and we were, uh, proactive. We have a procedure in place now that
when we announce a vacancy, uh, we try to do a gender balance for each appointment.
And we will... in your cover sheet with applicants to you, you will have on the top of it
whether we are heavy or short on one gender or the ... or not. Even if there's qualified
applicant, if the gender balance is not met, we ask that you then wait a period of 90 days.
After the end of 90 days, then any qualified applicant can be appointed, such as yourself,
but this gives then a renewed interest on reaching that gender balance. And that's pretty,
um, straightforward on the cover sheet itself. Once you see it it'll say right on there
what ... what we are looking for, what our ... our goal is, and the timelines by which you
can make an appointment or wait. Um, Tom, we skipped over ... work session and formal
meeting because, um, I know you had a couple proposals, and first, while you were gone,
Rick gave you an excellent opening on, um, his ... his observation, paraphrasing was, he
notices there are often all Council Members at all meetings.
Markus/ Yes, and ... and I think that this is one of the things that I've run into in this jurisdiction
that I have not seen elsewhere, and that is that, um, the way this group works together
they (mumbled) changing agendas, uh, time of meeting, uh, on a regular basis to (noises
on mic, hard to hear) everybody being there at the same time, and ... that in itself is I think
noteworthy and probably, um, a sign of how well you all work together, but it creates a
little havoc, quite frankly, in the process sometimes to reorganize those meetings. One of
the things we've attempted to do, uh, based on my observations and based on a
willingness of Council (mumbled) was to move the work sessions from a separate
Monday night to kicking them right after work, uh, before the Tuesday night regular
meetings, and in most cases, I would say that that's been fairly successful. It keeps the,
you know, lets the, uh, Council only be one ... out one night per week instead of two, and
when we need to run that separate meeting because we have issues on work sessions that
are going to be, uh, more concentrated, you know, obviously of greater concern
(mumbled) recently I think that was last week where a number of issues, uh, all pretty
hard - hitting issues, uh, we had it on a separate night, but my recommendation is that
when we schedule these meetings that I think from my standpoint in terms of managing
agendas and (mumbled) manage agendas, if we can focus them on one evening, when
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 18
that's doable, instead of having a Monday and a Tuesday night, we would like to have
that flexibility to do that. Um, to some extent, I suppose, you know, you can flip
(mumbled) one two - nighter and then one one - nighter every month, um, but if we
(mumbled) items on that work session, that we would, um, you know, just kick that to a
one -night for both meetings (mumbled). I think quite frankly I've gotten pretty good, uh,
reaction from the Council Members when we've done that. I think we use in a time
(mumbled) little more efficiently, um, when we run `em together that way, um ... I hate to
tell you this, but in my 39 years, most bodies that I work with, tend to fill the void of time
(mumbled) and so (laughter) it's not a criticism (several talking and laughing). Um, but
1, you know, if you can set the time up, and if we're being responsible in how we load
your agendas, I think we can get you through these things fairly timely and get to the
point. Now that's incumbent on us to do as good a job as we can in writing these reports
and I think most of you notice that we've attempted to prepare reports that have a much
more, you k now, they're kind of a focused kind of things. We try to get bullets in these
reports so that you get to the meat of the issue right away, um ... one of the things that
Eleanor and I have been talking about is doing a fiscal impact on issues that have a fiscal,
um, kind of relationship to them, not unlike you would see at the State legislature, and a
lot of cities are doing those things now too. So, we're going to add that element to it
when we get our act together a little bit better, but wanted to throw that out as part of the
conversation and see if there's support for that, and if there is, we will schedule
accordingly.
Karr /And this obviously if there's general interest to give it a try ... anything we do can be
changed. It...we can try it, you know, it's not something we ... we can't go back on, but it
does have implications as we proceed forward on the January, February, and March
schedule, on whether we, um, can ... just ... looking at them for regular business Tuesdays,
the first and third Tuesday or whatever Tuesdays work, um, and then we can always
schedule, as Tom has said, special work sessions on any subject or subjects, as needed,
um, and we would ask that ... if we find out at a Tuesday night meeting that we're going
to need a special session, then we would ask you that and you'd bring us back a date and
we'd schedule it. But ... is there any thoughts on this approach?
Dickens/ I like the double - headers!
Champion/ Me too!
Karr/ The Tuesdays?
Hayek/ I'm supportive. There ... there are definitely work session nights that need to be stand -
alones, and that's already been recognized (several responding) but as long as those are
flagged and (several talking)
Karr/ And I think ... if we ... if we as staff don't flag them for you, then you should certainly say
we're going to need to spend some time. Let's ... let's start, you know, again, you can
start, if the majority want to start at 4:00 on that Tuesday and still do a double - header for
that sole purpose, you certainly can. Or you say...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 19
Dickens/ (mumbled) after the meeting too.
Karr/ Yes you can (both talking)
Dickens/ ...posed that before. You should post that every time, that if we don't finish the work
(both talking)
Karr/ We have a, um, custom that ... that when we combine them, we never know when time'll
get away from us, so when we combine `em on one night, we ... we have a, um, a
resolution that says we start our formals at 7:00. So when we start our work session at,
let's just say 5:30, we would adjourn to a formal meeting. At the end of the formal
meeting we would adjourn to the ... back to the work session if necessary. So you would
still accomplish all of the items on the same night, still get your double- header, but it may
require... so we can implement that as we talk about the schedule then, and we'll go...
starting effective the first of the year as much as we can. We'll start with that.
Throgmorton/ I'd like to express my support for it, but partly for familial reasons, um, make my
life (mumbled) easier, um (laughter) but ... but I want to toss in a caveat. There are
certain topics that ... that require discussions so that people can understand what ... what's
actually being proposed or expressed or whatever, and ... I ... I (mumbled) leery about
trying to compress too much into a fairly short work sessions, cause that kind of leads to
fairly quick decisions, or it can I should say. Uh, and so I'm a little leery of it, but I
support (mumbled)
Karr/ Well, again, let's try it, and again, if there is subject... if there is a subject when it comes up
we need to continue, defer, or identify at a work session, we'll do it!
Mims/ And I think just by the nature of the beast, I think we're as a group are going to say, you
know, we've got this topic on the next work session. There's no way we can get through
that (mumbled) more time. You know, so let's do a separate night, or spread it over two
work sessions or something (mumbled) I think we know what some of those topics are
that we need to spend more time with.
Dickens/ We've already done that.
Mims/ Yeah, I think (mumbled)
Markus/ The other thing, uh, you're going to see when we go through budget this year, is you're
going to have the department head and probably some of the individual (mumbled)
depending on their size, um, their support staff present, uh, during those budget
presentations, and what we want to do is walk you through some of the operational parts,
uh, I .... do a great job focusing on capital improvements and all of those items, but I think
it's good for you as elected officials to have an opportunity at least once a year related to
the fiscal document to ask some very specific questions about what's going on in their
operations and what you've seen n other jurisdictions and ... and actually engage in a
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 20
conversation during the budget process, um ... I like the opportunity it creates to develop a
relationship with you folks, that you understand their operational budget, what their
thinking is, and how they operate and so that's going to be rolled into this, uh, process
this year. It doesn't have to take a whole lot of time. The other thing we're going to be
doing is there's going to be performance measures in each of the department budgets, um,
there's going to be a statement of accomplishments, a statement of what they project
they're going to accomplish in the year to come, um... some comparative analysis, how
we stack up with other departments in terms of manpower, in terms of, uh, all sorts of
those performance standards that we're talking about, and while the first year, you know,
we've ... we're kind of rushing to put all that together, I suspect over time you will evolve
that into a pretty sophisticated document. One of the things I want to do is I want these
budgets to be presented (mumbled) for the annual budget award, not because we need
another piece of hardware on the wall, but what it does is it ... the document gets
evaluated by peers and it makes the determination, um, if our information is being
presented in a good way in terms of the public's ability to understand these things and...
and you know, in the last year after budget we did get some comments about our budget
document, um, some very, uh, insightful comments from members of the public about
what they would like to see in it, so we've taken some of those comments and tried to roll
that into this document. It's still evolving and ... and uh, it's really ... we really challenged
staff to, uh, do a much (coughing, unable to hear) this year, so ... um, we're going to need
some time to go through that process (mumbled) talk about that (both talking)
Karr/ Right. On C3 -1, uh, staff prepared a draft schedule. Um, I talked to many of you, uh,
about absences, days or times that wouldn't work. And what we have in front of you is...
is a draft. It is something ... it is a target. It is something, urn ... it's C3 -1. Um ... I know
we will be making changes to it, so that's what we need to do tonight so that we can, uh,
and again, it's hard to separate some of them without looking at the total, so we'll be
taking a look at this for our regular meetings, we'll be taking a look at it for our
organizational meeting, as well as our budget meets for this year. So...
Hayek/ I shot you an email; you probably got it too late cause it was, what, an hour or so before
we started today. February 6th through the 81h (mumbled) has identified as the trip to
D.C. for the lobbying.
Karr/ Ahh, didn't know that! Okay.
Hayek/ That just came out (mumbled)
Karr/ Okay. All right. So, um, given that, let's kind of start in the middle just as a ... as a thought
process. Given that the 6th through the 81h for the Chamber, then we could move
potentially the February meetings just a week. We could move 'em... 13, 14, and 27, 28,
but I'd have to look at ... urn ... Dr .... Dobyns' schedule ... I know had some issues.
Uh ... yeah, we're talking February right now. We have ... yeah. (several talking) So I
mean that's one thing we could do is ... is just move them a week, 13, 14, 27, 28. (several
talking) Oh, we're combining them, so we're only talking 14 and 28. Only talking 14...
which is Valentine's Day if that means anybody. (several talking and laughing) Um...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 21
Dilkes/ (mumbled)
Karr/ It ... it becomes a special meeting ... we have a resolution that, um, sets forth regular
meetings to be the first and third Tuesday. So therefore it's special whatever night we
select, so I mean, do we want to go ... here's...13 and 27? There's no magic in when it's
a special. Do you ... it's ... I don't know ... it throws a little bit of a wrench into it when
people get used to formal meetings being on Tuesdays.
Hayek/ I think there is some merit to that. People associate (several talking)
Karr/ Now the other thing, we go back to Tom's ... our observation of a minute ago, and that we
don't know who's going on the Chamber trip. My guess it would be ... would be one or
two staff and/or ... so I just don't know if we want to proceed ... I think we should
reschedule it. That one.
Champion/ Oh, definitely we should (both talking)
Karr/ ...it isn't a matter of just missing one. I think we're probably going to be missing a couple
key people so ... um ... do you want to ... doesn't make any difference. We could start ... we
could start, do you want to go back to January and start going in order? But I know it's...
we're going to have to move that. Okay. I'm suggesting the formal organizational
meeting at 5:30. This is the most painful part of tonight, once we're through this we're...
we're sailing, guys! (laughter) (unable to hear person away from mic) Uh, no, I'm
going back to January. We're going to go in order. I'm suggesting January 4th at 5:30.
Um, we can do it, it has to be between the 2 °d and ... and noon on the 6th. I can move it
later, but I know there were some scheduling conflicts, um ... with, uh ... uh, not conflicts,
but I just, some challenges!
Champion/ It only takes about a half an hour.
Karr/ If ... if all we're going to do that night ... that is the organizational meeting; it probably
won't take that long.
Champion/ Right.
Karr/ So it could go later too, I mean, it could go ... I'm just trying to think people right after
work catch it and be done. Is that going to work for right now? (several responding)
Champion/ Yeah!
Karr/ Leave it at the organization ... and we'll figure out ... okay. Then I'm suggesting the first
budget session to be all day Saturday the 7th, 8:00 to 5:00. (several responding) It's,
yeah, it ... again, um, please note at the bottom, we don't have a full Council available
from the 12th to the 31St, so it's kind of an accelerated different approach to this. The
good news is we have primarily... have it done by ... by the, early in January. Or we move
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 22
it to later ... which we certainly can do now that we're moving the February schedule. If
Saturday the 7th doesn't work or ... or if there's enough of you who don't want to work on
a Saturday, not only the 7th but the Saturday. None of the other Saturdays will work due
to absences. The only Saturday that is potentially doable if we're goig to consider a
Saturday is the 6th ... is the 7th. (several talking) (mumbled) keep the 7t ? (several
responding) Okay. Then we would ... then we have a budget work session scheduled on
Monday the 9th. That is back -to -back, you've got Saturday and Monday. So it doesn't
give staff a lot of turnaround time, but it does make it a contiguous, while it's fresh in
everybody's mind, continuation of the budget. Is that going to work, 1:00 to 7:00 on the
9th? (several responding) Yes? (several responding) And we've got the combined
regular meeting that we just agreed to do. That would be on the 1St
Champion/ The l Otng
Karr/ The 10th. Uh -huh. (several talking) The, I'm sorry ... the first meeting of the month would
be on the l Otn
Champion/ Got it!
Karr/ I did not put in, totally my mistake, that we looked at the 24th for the combined second
meeting in January. It would be your work session and formal on the 24th. Now, Tom
will be gone ... but other than ... and Terry ... and you'll be back...
Dickens/ ...be back on the Tuesday.
Karr/ Yep!
Dickens/ (mumbled) (unable to hear person away from mic)
Karr/ 5:30. Uh -huh. And then I'm proposing ... um ... the final, potential final work session
budget on board ... the board and event night to be the 31St. Terry will be gone.
Dickens/No, I'll ... I'm flying back that day, again.
Karr/ Thank you, Terry, okay...
Dickens/ I should be back by 3:30 or (both talking)
Karr/ And that's the one that ... that, um, organizations and special events come in and, um,
review their funding requests for us. So that...
Dickens/ We're going to do one on the 24th, as well?
Karr/ The 24th will be our regular meeting, not budget driven, but regular business. The 31 St
would be our budget.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 23
Dickens/ Okay.
Karr/ Okay?
(male)/ Be all day?
Karr/ 6:00 to 9:00. (several talking) P.M. 31St. That's fine? I thought...I talked to Barb about
that and I thought we were okay. I thought ... no, but you could have changed your
schedule. That was what ... until you nail it down (both talking)
(male)/ ...talked to Barb, okay. All right. (both talking)
Karr/ So ... then we're to February, okay, and then in February, then we've got ... we're going to
have to figure out ... we either go to, um, just thinking ... if there... here's ... uh, here's the
thought process. I don't know if anybody's ... we could move the work session on boards
and events to the 30th, if you want to have a special, your regular business on the 31St, but
you'd have back -to -back formal meetings then, and skip the one. See, I don't know that
that helps anybody. (several talking) Probably not! I don't think it really ... I think...
we're back again to what we want to do in February. We either do it Val... Valentine's
Day or...
Champion/ Do we have to have two meetings (both talking)
Karr/ Well, we..we don't'...well, yes, we do! Well, yes .... no, we can do this! (both talking) I
can, we can set the public hearing on the 21s' of February, and hold it ... and pass and
adopt it March 6th. One night.
Champion/ On the budget?
Karr/ On the budget. We would set ... we would set the public hearing on the 21St, one, two,
three, four, five, six... seven, eight, nine, ten ... yeah. I usually ... it's ten days, but public
hearing notices, it's a short month is my problem. With the public... publication requires
ten days. We could send it over early so it's ... one, two, three, four, five, six...
Payne/ You get an extra day in February this year!
Karr/ I don't think it's extra enough! (laughter)
Dilkes/ In the past, Council has not held the public hearing on the budget and voted the same
night.
Karr/ Tom wanted...
Dilkes/ Oh, but Tom is changing...
Karr/ Tom is changing it.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 24
Champion/ We've ... we've done ... I think we have done it.
Karr/ Yeah.
Champion/ (mumbled)
Karr/ So, okay, here's another... here's another possibility... here's another possibility. If we'd
like to do that and go down to potentially one meeting in February, we could... thinking
out loud here, we could, at our meeting on the work session board and events ... at the
work session we could have a special formal at the end of that one, setting a public...
setting the public hearing on the budget. We don't have to have it ready until we publish.
That would give us plenty of time to do the paperwork and publish it, ten days before...
March 6th. So on the one meeting in February, you would not have anything budget -
driven on it.
Dickens/ So you'd just schedule (mumbled)
Champion/ Yeah (several talking)
Karr/ ...for the sole purpose of setting the public hearing for March 6th (several talking)
Champion/ It takes one second!
Payne/ Oh, it's quick and easy? (several talking) Painless?
Karr/ We could do that, because it doesn't have any ramifications (several talking) and we ... that
would be the ... we're not adding any extra days. We're just ... we're just adding one thing
to the 31 st. We're adding a special formal to set a public hearing.
Hayek/ (mumbled) if we finish for some reason before 9:00 (mumbled)
Karr/ Well ... well, number one I would know because I would know that because we schedule
the ... the people and times. I guess it's just the appearance of setting a public hearing on
a budget before you gave `em a chance to ask for money. (several talking)
Hayek/ There's that minor point! (several talking and laughing)
Karr/ Well, we have to have a time - specific for a formal, but we would know that and we could
always adjourn, do that formal meeting, and continue.
Champion/ But they're always done early, those people.
Karr/ That's what I mean, we would always ... I mean, I would know that though.
Dilkes/ Set it earlier. It's always, you can start it later but...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 25
Karr/ Yeah. Yeah. And then we would cancel... thanks, Ross. (several talking) No, we
wouldn't be. So then we would cancel ... okay, I think this is what ... (several talking). So
we've got the...
Champion/ ...difficult one!
Karr/ We've got the 4th of January for the organizational meeting. The 7th for the budget. The
91h for the budget. The 10th for the regular business. Regular business on the 24th. The
31St is budget, with a special formal for setting a public hearing. We've cancelled 6th and
7, well, we wouldn't have had 6 anyway but 7; cancelled it. And then we have the 21St
combined. And then do the two dates in March work for everyone? And it's back to a
traditional...
(male)/ (mumbled)
Karr/ In March? Certainly. March then, you would go with the 6th and the 20th. And you have
one date in February at this point, the 21St. And what we'll do is we'll have this in this
week's packet and we'll add it to the schedule so you can see it and ... and put it on the
tentative agenda, as well. What it does ... what this also allows is it also allows you a little
bit, early February if staff needs it ... to play with the budget. Okay. Okay?
Payne/ So February only has one meeting scheduled?
Karr/ Yes. (several talking and laughing) Yeah, Terry's devastated! (laughter) Um...
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Karr/ Technology, I think we've touched on some of these things. Um, go through it briefly.
Um ... the email, if you have any questions... I'll be, before you leave, for the new Council
people, I do have packets, uh, available for you, um, with some information in it, as well.
The City web site ... we do have Council business on the City web site. I have, um, for
the continuing... thank you ... the continuing members, I have the bios that we have on
there now. You might want to take it home, update it, scratch it out, redo it, whatever
you want to do. For the new ones, I think I've ... I've got all three of your bios and I think
I'm waiting for one picture. (laughter) But other than that, I think we're all set to go
with (several talking and laughing) we'll go with a smooth transition then the first of the
year, uh, on the web site, we'll go live with that information. Uh, again, I encourage you,
please put down how you want to be contacted... and, because people, that's their greatest
frustration is looking at the web site, following the directions, and ... not getting a hold of
you. Um...
Dobyns/ (mumbled) ...what's the contact information you (mumbled) for people to contact you
to Marian? (mumbled) your cell phone, your email, your (several talking)
Karr/ It's a little bit, um...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 26
Mims/ I give my home phone number and I give, then they've got my City email.
Karr/ Matt has a (several talking) Matt has a cell phone.
Hayek/ ...my cell phone, and I (mumbled) at home. Uh, more or less works, I get the occasional
late call but (mumbled) cell phones (mumbled) caller I.D. (mumbled) but (mumbled)
Karr/ And again, we can change it ... very quickly, but once it's out there, it (several talking) I can
change it, but that doesn't mean (laughter) you know! So ... it's whatever... whatever you
prefer. Uh, the same type...
Payne/ (mumbled) just for that.
Karr/ Just for that.
Payne/ Ten bucks! A month!
Karr/ Uh -huh. Um ... payroll forms, I do have folders, urn ... uh, with the forms in it, as well as
contact information for our HR department. Um, those of you who are continuing on,
unless there's some changes you want in your insurance, or into your benefits, we'll just
turn, you know, I'll just keep those, turn those over. For the new ones, I do have folders.
There's contact information in there, uh, you can call if you have questions, either myself
or ... or Tracy. Um, we just need forms back acknowledging ... you ... you've read, you
understood, and you're not accepting the offer, or you are. It's pretty self - explanatory.
Uh, business cards, if any of you are interested in business cards, please let me know.
We will be designing them to include the UNESCO City of Literature logo on them, um,
with this ... okay.
Payne/ Do most people have them or...
Champion/ (mumbled)
Karr/ Uh -huh, and you can start with a small quantity and always get more. It... it's a standing
order. We do it ... it's very quickly ... we get them very quickly. (several talking) But we
need to ... if you are interested, do you want any changes made to your card or do you
want it ... just the same? With the ... with the new logo, with the new UNESCO...
Hayek/ Yeah, I keep running out of (both talking)
Karr/ Yeah. Tell you what I'll do is I'll send it to you electronically; you can take a look at it.
Champion/ (mumbled) (several talking and laughing)
Karr/ You can cross off her name! (laughter) Um, I'll send it to you, Matt, so you can take a
look if you want any...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 27
Hayek/ Thank you.
Karr/ ...formatting changes. Okay. And I can send you a format, they're not all the same. We
have ... we have the same size so we have to ... but I mean, many of them have more
information, and some have less. Again, it's how you want to be contacted, what
message you want on your card. So I can ... I can send it to you electronically if you'd
like, just to see a format.
Payne/ (mumbled)
Karr/ Yep!
Payne/ (mumbled)
Karr/ Can do.
Dilkes/ One thing I didn't mention about emails, if.. it's good to put at the bottom where you
have your name, just to advise people that their communication to you and your response
to them may be a public record.
Karr/ A good example of that is if you do go on the web site and it says, um, email the Council.
If you click on it, you'll see the template that's going to be coming to you, right in the
bottom of it, it says this ... this information is, will become public record. So that people
are not surprised when ... they see that it's in the packet, or they get a call from a reporter.
When they contacted you regarding a landlord problem for their daughter and they had no
idea it was going to go. (unable to hear person away from mic) Uh -huh. Urn ... again,
and ... as Tom will probably ... any time you'd like a staff tour, um, staff is available to
you, coordinate through the City Manager's office. You can coordinate directly with
staff. How would you prefer they handle that?
Markus/ Just coordinate it through our office (mumbled)
Karr/ And then that way we could possibly do more than one of you, or we could know that
somebody, you know, if there's an event coming up that we might want to have you
schedule (both talking)
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Karr/ Yeah.
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Karr/ Yeah. And that's easy to do if we know you're interested in doing it. Uh -huh. Okay.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 28
Payne/ I'm interested so if Rick or Jim are interested, just ... I'm probably the easiest one to
change my schedule around (mumbled) do anything, do you (laughter and several
talking)
Throgmorton/ I won't email you though, Michelle (laughter)
Karr/ But if you're interested in just a general tour, of if there's certain things you for sure want
to go to ... please let me know, cause you may ... you may all three be interested in ... in
going to the Senior Center, but only two of you want to go to the Water Plant. Then
that's what Tom and his office would need to know. They would just structure it that
way. (unable to hear person away from mic)
Payne/ I just want everything.
Karr/ Um, why don't we send you... everything! Why don't we send you, um, an internal phone
list, and that'll give you a good idea of...a perspective on departments and things of that.
I can do that. It's also available on our web site (mumbled). Um ... again, I will be happy
to talk about anything you want to talk about. Is there some other things you wanted to
highlight?
Dilkes/ There was just one ... that we included in here, the resolution that requires Council
Members who are appointed to, as a representative of the Council, to another board to
vote in accordance with the formal policy of the City Council. Um, it has to be a formal
policy of the City Council, so it has to be adopted by motion and resolution. That also
was a ... a resolution that was done in response to a ... issue that we had with a Council
Member and hasn't come up since, well, it has come up since but...
Karr/ That's on G8- 4 ... is the page number, and that's the resolution.
Markus/ I think another thing that I would mention and it's similar to (mumbled) people don't
think it out. Uh, Eleanor is a direct Council appointee...
Karr/ We talked about that.
Markus/ ...as is Marian, and so am I, so we work together, uh, we don't work ... nobody is
subordinate to each other in that relationship. Um, the staff, other than Eleanor's staff
and Marian's staff, report to me, and my preference, and I don't guard this (mumbled) my
preference is, a Council Member can call any department head, just like any citizen can,
and ask for anything a citizen could ask for, but I think the distinction I would make is
that you have to understand staff (noises on mic, difficult to hear). Okay? They will look
at you very differently in terms of your request. They will try to be very responsive, and
so my concern sometimes is is that they may take what you ask as something almost like
a directive, and ... that can cause issues internally. So if you're asking us to produce some
information (noises on mic continue) what would typically be asked for from any
citizens, um, I would ask that you come to my office and let me coordinate that. And the
other thing I would say about that is a lot of times when you're asking for that type of
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 29
information, some of your fellow Council Members would probably have the same
thought process, and so to the extent that I can, if we produce something as a result of
that content, we will share that with the rest of the Council. Unless it's some personal
issue or private matter (mumbled).
Dobyns/ ...because sometimes I don't know what I don't know, um (mumbled) try to be careful,
um, (mumbled) want to use email. So I call, you know, let's say I get your voicemail,
and you know, I'm in a hurry sometimes (mumbled) scheduled. Um, before I would
(mumbled) (several talking)
Markus/ And in fact, if...if you can't get any of us, it's okay to call Marian cause Marian knows,
you know, the same kind of routine, even, you know, and ... and if you have a call, you
know, that relates to Marian's business, you can call Marian (both talking)
Dobyns/ ...that's what I do, but let's say I wanted to call someone, you know, in the Police
Department, talk about the issue. I probably would want to go through you or Geoff
(both talking). Okay. But Geoff, you can call Geoff if you're...
Markus/ And I assure you, you will be contacted (mumbled)
Dilkes/ I don't think there's any problem with sending an email saying I need to talk to you;
when could you talk.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Dilkes/ I don't think that's...
Markus/ I think you're interpreting that (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...you just have to recognize it's something that somebody could see at some
point.
Dobyns/ (mumbled) University email's what I use but...
Karr/ It's the University.
Dobyns/ ...that's all that I use really for (both talking)
Dilkes/ That's where you...
Dobyns/ that's my ... and so you're telling me that's different because you're at a private work
place, and so, um...
Dilkes/ I don't think that's a ... I don't think that scheduling kind of thing is a problem. The ... the
reason I say that about your University, I mean, generally the University, like the City,
um, because we're publicly funded, people really shouldn't be using their City email, I
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 201 1.
Page 30
mean, for extensive personal conversation or extensive, you know, political conversation,
those kind of things, but ... but (both talking) no, no.
Dobyns/ ...that's what confused me, cause (both talking)
Dilkes/ ...I use my work phone to call my doctor up and make an appointment, those kind of
things aren't a problem.
Karr/ I think it's like Michelle said for a quorum though, contact her at work knowing she'll get
it right away.
Dobyns/ (mumbled) send you an email, you know, about this meeting, should I (mumbled) that
was appropriate using my University email. That was okay. (several talking)
Dilkes/ Yes, that's fine. I'm glad we cleared up that communication, yeah. (several talking) I
just ... it's interesting to me just how ... how people who work at the University use their
University emails as their personal email, urn ... I mean, but we don't do that at the ... at
the City, and it probably wouldn't (both talking)
Dobyns/ ... doctor - patient stuff (mumbled)
Karr/ So does he with attorney weirdness! (several talking) It's a weirdness.
Payne/ ...it's just like his, but I'm as a student, so student do use it as their personal (several
talking)
Dilkes/ And really what, how you can use your University email is not really my issue. That's
the University's issue but ... I would be more cautious (several talking)
Payne/ ...question I would have is, let's say for some reason something happened to my work
email, some, you know, something got ... went too far or whatever and somebody wanted
to discover it. Then is all of my work email discoverable, because...
Karr/ Related to a subject.
Payne/ ...but (coughing, unable to hear) all of it to try to find those few emails that are...
Dilkes/ You're saying you've used your work email for a City matter.
Payne/ Exactly (both talking) what if
Dilkes/ Okay, what I would need to do then is I would, you ... I would have to get all your emails
that dealt with that subject, and give them. I mean, we've had (both talking)
Payne/ ... save them anyway.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 31
Dilkes/ We've had situations, for instance, where ... I mean, we had a request for give us all your
emails about the Magic Bus, for instance, or ... and we had to make decisions about, well,
the Magic Bus appears in one email of a string of emails and then we make judgments
about how much we provide and how much we don't, but ... but just because you use your
work email for City business does not make all your work email and your personal email
a public record. It just makes it difficult to comb through it (both talking) and to find it.
That's all. Yeah. No, I ... and we would talk about those things before we...
Markus/ Since I've been here, which is (mumbled) I think I've had four open records (mumbled)
emails, and the IT department comes down. They take over my desk, they go through my
computer, um, I tend to be about as boring (mumbled) deliberately as I can, but I can tell
you that there are threads, okay, of connections to other things and when somebody says
they want to hear about the Magic Bus, you'd be amazed how many times that term will
come up in other people's conversations, and I will tell you that the legal staff has come
up to me and said, you know, you might want to have a discussion with this staff member
about what they're communicating about and so ... you just, you know, try to drill down
into all of our employees to get them to understand that this stuff can ... it can unravel
those threads, you know, for the most innocent of connections that has nothing to do with
the subject, and it takes an inordinate amount of legal staff time to go through all that to
search and destroy, and it, you know, and then the IT staff, it is just ... it's a huge
annoyance to the point where it's even worse in some other states. It's gotten to the point
where this system of using emails, everybody just puts it on the side. They just, they
almost exclusively don't use it. And talk about making things inefficient just because of
the sunshine laws (both talking)
Karr/ I think it goes back to what Rick just said though. Then you send the email that says I need
to talk and you pick up the phone. That's what's happening because of those same
threads (several talking). Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Dilkes/ I mean, I ... I'm just waiting for the email request that says I want all ... all such - and -sos
emails and I say no, I'm only going to give you the ones about City business, and they
say, no, because the purpose of my request is to determine how much time that employee
is spending on their computer during personal stuff and if you don't give me their
personal emails, I won't know that.
Karr/ And that's happened n other communities (both talking)
Dilkes/ Yeah, we haven't had that battle in Iowa yet, but it'll come.
Karr/ Uh -huh. Um, again, I have payroll and I have copies of the web site, and one final thing,
both ... for everyone here, the, um, CVB annual luncheon is Thursday at the Sheraton
downtown, 11:30 to 1:30. I've not heard from some of you, and I have space available at
the City table, so if any of you are available, if you could let me know tonight I can have,
um, the reservations made, um ... I've got a couple staff, but it's a good opportunity to go
to something for CVB that is ... is a little social but not totally, you know, it's a nice time
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 32
to get acquainted. So it's a ... yeah, you're invited! (laughter) Yep! (several talking)
It's December 1, 11:30 to 1:30 at the Sheraton downtown.
Hayek/ (mumbled) I can't be there. (mumbled) I've got a deposition I'll be in, but at this event
they're going to have a demonstration of Olympic wrestling (several talking) someone's
in town, I think maybe the women's team or something like that.
Markus/ It is the women's (several talking)
Hayek/ ...up mats in the Sheraton for a quick, uh, wrestling something...
Karr/ So, Terry, you're definitely going (laughter)
Dickens/ I have three daughters. I saw enough (laughter)
Karr/ So ... (several talking). Thanks, Michelle.
Dilkes/ Oh, one more thing I did want to mention, I'm a 60% on time, um...
Karr/ Employee.
Dilkes/ Employee. I'm generally in the office, or ... Monday, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays, and
not Thursdays and Fridays. I'm always reachable. You can call my secretary. She
always knows how to get me. Um ... and I can be available on Thursdays and Fridays if I
need to, but ... but that is when I am always in the office and...
Markus/ She's there a lot on Thursday (both talking)
Dilkes/ Try not to be!
Karr/ That ... that's it, unless...
Dilkes/ Only to keep you in line! (laughter and several talking)
Karr/ We will ... we will provide you, and in the materials here, uh, either a bus pass or a parking
sticker, as a Council Member. And, uh, there will be a ... to park at the City lot.
Payne/ Oh, okay!
Karr/ To park at the City, no, it's not universal! (laughter) Um, but (several talking) but, and
that, um, we will then... some individuals, again, is to and from meetings, to conduct
business, but it is a 24/7 parking permit, and so the form is in this packet of materials for
you, and you just check the one you want and give me the information on the car and
we'll provide the sticker. (several talking) Okay! (several talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.
Page 33
Markus/ ...welcome all the new Members and the, uh, new Council, we're really, um, looking
forward to working with you and if anything you need to make your life a lot easier, just
ask us (mumbled) there's nothing that, you know, we won't pursue for you in terms of
your questions about how we do things and ... and if you think we're acting in a certain
way, um, you'll usually be wrong (mumbled) just ask us why we're doing some things.
You might be surprised that it's entirely different than what you might think (mumbled).
We'll be glad to answer any questions. Good luck to you! (several responding)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
orientation work session of November 29, 2011.