HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-01-06 TranscriptionJanuary 6, 2012 City Council Work Session — Legislator Meeting
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Council Absent: Dobyns
Staff Present: Markus, Fruin, Dilkes, Karr, Davidson, Long
Lobbyists Present: Stanberry, Harder
Legislators Present: Jacoby, Dvorsky, Lensing, Bolkcom
Introduction of Lobbyists:
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Hayek/ I want to extend a thank you to our, uh, local delegation for, uh, taking the time to meet
with us. It's so valuable for us to have a good working relationship with all of you and
think these periodic, uh, get - togethers, in addition to our regular communication, really
help, uh, keep things moving, um, and keep open the lines of communication. Um...
what I thought we'd do this morning...
Karr/ Please remember to wear the microphones. Can we do a mic check?
Hayek/ Yeah!
Karr/ Please? Introduction maybe?
Hayek/ Why don't we do that? We'll do our mic check through an introduction. So, I'll start
with me and we'll go this way. I'm Matt Hayek, Mayor of Iowa City.
Champion/ Connie Champion, Council.
Payne/ Michelle Payne, Council.
Throgmorton/ Jim Throgmorton, City Council.
Fruin/ Geoff Fruin, the Assistant to the City Manager.
Markus/ Tom Markus, City Manager.
Lensing/ Vicki Lensing, State Rep.
Bolkcom/ Uh, Joe Bolkcom, State Senator.
Dickens/ Terry Dickens, City Council.
Dvorsky/ Bob Dvorsky, State Senator from Coralville.
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Jacoby/ Uh, Dave Jacoby, State Representative.
Mims/ Susan Mims, City Council.
Review of Council Legislative Priorities:
Hayek/ Wonderful! Thank you. Um ... got a little bit of a later start. We're gonna still ... we're
gonna move this along cause we know everybody's got stuff to do. Um ... what I'm
gonna do is send these around, um, we've got ... a set of, uh, legislative priorities as we
always do, and then we also have our strategic planning priorities which we're circulating
just for good measure. Um ... because they...they dovetail, uh, the legislative priorities,
and what I thought we'd do ... um, and you know, in years past we've had a laundry list
half a mile long. In ... in recent years we've tried to pare that down (several talking) to
something more bit - sized, and we've got, I don't know, six or seven there, uh, to ... to go
through. And ... I don't know your thoughts... maybe it would make sense for us just to
go through these and see if...if there are comments or ... or updates or insights you can
provide as to, uh, the various (several talking) items and, uh, do it in that order. So ... I'll
go ahead and start. Uh, the first one's Economic Development. You know, obviously
there's a big TIF forum, uh, couple nights ago and so that ... that's something we have
vetted openly in very recent, uh ... uh, days. Um, if there's anything anyone wants to add
to that, we can certainly go over it, but ... we've gone over this ground this week.
Bolkcom/ Well I think it'd ... excuse me, I think it'd be helpful, boy that's loud! Um, to, uh,
thank you, the, um ... to see ideas from ... from Iowa City on what you think (noises on
mic). There is going to be legislation, uh, I think there are lots and lots of ideas. Um, but
uh... we'd be interested in specific suggestions from Iowa City, uh, you're going to have
the League of Cities to deal with, uh, who has been at a position, historically, of saying if
you change one word, uh, it somehow magically will go away, that the tool will be gone
forever. So, you're going to have to deal with that, so I ... I would hope that the City, uh,
which has ... good knowledge of the use of this, uh, and how... how... how important a
tool it is would ... would make some suggestions, uh, specific suggestions on what you
could live with.
Hayek/ That's a good, yeah ... we will do so. That's a good point.
Dvorsky/ And one of the ... one of the things I was talking to Representative Sands after the
meeting that we both remember in like 2003 the House passed I think a bill that was
fairly decent on TIF, and then one senator, essentially, how do you put this technically?
Screwed it up completely! Uh, so it didn't... didn't (laughter) go anywhere and we
remember that, and ... and you know, this ... ideal thing where, you know, you completely
get rid of TIF or ... or you, uh, don't do anything, we can't just have those two
alternatives. So we hope we'll have some reasonable ideas and talk to people across the
board and come up with something useful.
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Champion/ I think it's very possible that you can put together a package that would work. I
don't think (mumbled) that difficult. (laughter and several talking) I just make a little
list for you! (laughter and several talking)
Markus/ How do we avoid the, uh, slippery slope argument though? I mean, how do you get
around that?
Bolkcom/ I think you get around it by, I mean, one I think there's bi- partisan is ... interest in it,
uh, which is a ... which is a terrific opportunity. If ... if one side or the other's in charge,
the other side will just pick apart and side with ... with the people that don't want change.
Uh, and so I think there's really quite a ... quite an opportunity here. Um, you know, I just
think reasonable people can get together around this. That we're not ... you know, I've
been as ... as, uh, strong an advocate for reform as anybody, uh, at the end of the day I
think TIF needs to live and be available ... and still be a tool for communities. So I'm not
interested in any, uh, proposal that takes it away or ... or frankly severely restricts its use,
but I do think it's kind of turned into the wild west, uh, in how it's being used. It's being
used in ways people never anticipated. So I think reasonable people can get together.
There'll be a range of ideas, uh, and somewhere in the middle, uh, we can come. Uh, I'm
happy to do two or three things, as opposed to ten things, you know ... if we ... and I think
this year, we ... we stand the best chance in the entire time I've been in legislature to
actually make some movement on it, and I think part of the key is that we have a divided
legislature and interest on both sides.
Hayek/ Okay.
Jacoby/ Different viewpoint! I don't think there's a chance we'll do two or three things. I think
one or two at best, uh ... it's interesting. Out of...every once in a while my teenagers are
okay to deal with, and Lynette and I were talking about the forum that we had and come
home and reviewing things, and it was interesting, the oldest teenager, the 8th grader said,
it sounds a lot like when Anna and I, the two girls, the two teenagers, fight, and then
when you two come in, parens patriae — attorneys know what that means — that the State
comes in as parens patriae and says, okay, you're both in time -out and then guess what
happens? Both sisters are suddenly getting along, saying, wait a minute! We don't want
you to change it like this! We don't both want to be penalized. So I think that's what's
going to be the key is that what ... what we develop or what comes out the first round, I'm
a little slow to take a look at ... I ... I think there's three things we could do. I think there's
only one or two that will honestly get done. Uh ... limits, okay. How it affects schools,
okay. But ... and this is a little overview too, cause Joe mentioned it, uh, we also agree on
commercial property tax needs reduction, but quite frankly the Senate bill and the House
bill are miles apart. So while you can agree on a core topic, those ... that's miles apart.
So we agree on ... on TIF needs some reforms. I think what you'll see if those two, one,
two or three items are gonna be a ways apart, and as my two girls say, both Anna and
Ellie, you know, they'll fight tooth and nail, like Coralville and Iowa City are kind of
doing right now, but when the State comes in as parens patriae both sisters might line up
and say, wait a minute! We want you out of this. So I think it's got a long road to go.
Uh, I think everyone's interested in taking a look at it, but I don't think it's as, uh, easy or
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heaven forbid, any time someone says it's so common - sense, it usually means it's dead in
the State Capitol! (laughter) So let's, you know, but we do want to work together and
see what we can do on ... from that end.
Dvorsky/ One idea, and I call this sort of civilian control of the military, uh, you have Ways and
Means committees and ... and bless you guys who are on Ways and Means, but on Ways
and Means you get either the most anti -tax people in legislature, mostly Republicans, and
maybe the most pro -tax people. So you have this vast gap in that committee. So it's
really hard to do something through that committee. Maybe if you got other people
involved from other committees, like my beloved committee, Appropriations, where, you
know, we spend money. We're either the big spending ones or the ones that don't want
to spend anything! So maybe to a different committee or a different set of people
involved in it, that would be helpful. I'm mostly directing this to your lobbyists back
here. Maybe that's the way to sort of, you know, deal with it, cause I think if it just goes
through Ways and Means, that's a problem, because you have these vast differences of
people on the committee.
Lensing/ (several talking) when we did it before it started in local government (several talking)
and then ... and then it got traction and then I assume it probably went through Ways and
Means at the end, or did local government pass it all the way? But I know ... I think I was
on local government at that time, and we had, who is it ... Professor Swenson from Iowa
State come in, I mean (several talking) ...along the way from other committees, I think
it's helpful.
Bolkcom/ Senator Sodder's, who chairs our Economic Growth committee, has ... is going to have
a bill, uh, he's had a number of meetings on it. What ... I guess my point would be, there
is more interest among a bipartisan group of legislators to do something than I've ever
seen. Uh, as people saw on Wednesday night, there were more than a dozen Des Moines
lobbyists there (several talking) I mean, there are ... and to ... to represent Jacoby's point,
this will not be easy. Uh, we will get pounded by everybody, uh, when ... when there's a
piece of paper with words on it that say we're going to, you know, narrow its use
and ... and make it more appropriate as an economic development tool. Uh, it's the wild
west now. People are spending money on things that it was never intended to do, and it
needs ... needs to be tightened up. I think the more committees that this can go through,
the better, and I think the more, I mean, I think people ... the presentation on Wednesday
night was an eye- opener for a whole bunch of people. Uh, and I think if we can get more
members of the General Assembly knowledgeable about how this thing is actually being
used by communities across the state, we will have many, many more advocates for
making some changes. So I think the more committees involved, uh, will actually benefit
us in getting something done.
Hayek/ Well we'll try to, uh, work ... the first point you made about providing some suggestions,
we'll ... we'll get on that. Follow through on that.
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Bolkcom/ And ... and there'll be a meeting on January 21St, uh, here in Johnson County to solicit
broadly ideas for how people want to change it. So people are welcome to come to that,
as well.
Hayek/ Thank you. All right, well, let's keep moving here. The next item's the Krupp decision.
This has to do with the residential treatment of, uh, co -ops, and uh ... anyone who has any
tie to a law firm in Iowa City ... in Johnson County right now or probably anyone in the
state, but especially in Johnson County where we have a lot of these structures, knows
that these firms are working around the clock to get these things converted. Um, and so
we're seeing a big shift in there and we've forecasted some pretty scary, uh, tax
implications for ... for our area. Um, any...
Jacoby/ How much?
Hayek/ Well I think the worst -case scenario is in ... in the 3 -plus million a year, uh, hit to our
General Fund.
Jacoby/ Wow!
Hayek/ That's...
Markus/ That's over a significant period of time. I think you were talking about two to three
years before that would roll out, and I think some have indicated they're not going to go
that direction, for whatever reason they would.
Dvorsky/ And the General Fund right now is what, 54 or something like that?
Markus/ 54 million, yeah.
Hayek/ But if it gets to that level, I mean, that's a 5, 6% hit.
Champion/ I mean, this is just kind of off the wall comment — my problem with that new ruling
is that ... the people who own these buildings that are turning them into co -ops aren't
going to pass that on to their renters. It's not going to reduce rent. And that's ... it just...
and that's the problem with it.
Markus/ It seems like it would bump up against the, uh, Governor's philosophy of reducing
commercial property taxes. Is that ... likely?
Bolkcom/ Well I mean ... I think this issue, you know, the conversion to, uh, condos and now the
conversion to co -ops has been, you know, one of these issues we just haven't been able to
get traction on, uh, and I'd be happy to introduce a study bill on this, and see what
interest is out there. Um ... it's ... has its impact mostly in urban areas, especially here,
places like Ames, uh ... maybe a little bit in Cedar Falls. So attracting a broad base of
people that think this is a big deal. You know, it's been difficult to do, both on the condo
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conversion and a co -op conversion, but I'd be happy to introduce a study bill to, uh, to try
and curtail the ... the use of this and see what interest, uh, might ... might arise from it.
Hayek/ We (several talking) ... go ahead.
Jacoby/ I don't think, you know, a study bill's a good start. I think until we get to the crux of
what's ... the inequities in the property tax system, we're not going to make any
movement. I frankly think that we need, you know, of course I would love to decouple
agricultural and residential. I ... I know (several talking) I will probably grow a full head
of hair (laughter) before that happens. I ... I understand that, but I think what we have to
do is have a counter - proposal and not ... not just look at the issue but actually come up
with something solid. In other words, some middle ground on commercial rental areas,
you know, commercial duplex ... or complexes aren't people, but there are people that live
there. I think what we need to be ... do is be a little more bold and come up and set a rate
that's different. I mean, what you say is it shouldn't be a full commercial rate, the same
as industrial or a commercial building or retail or whatever. Shouldn't be the 100 %. Do
we set it at 75 %? I mean (mumbled) as a different use than ... than a revolving door, and
come up with something so that least some of the developers, some of the owners, have
something to grab on to that it's a reduction, but it doesn't kick us in the tail by $3
million! I mean, if ... if we're talking $1 million in four years out, that's gonna hurt
enough, but that's a lot better than 3 or 4 million, I mean, I ... I kind of see where that's
the middle ground on that tax issue, and I'd rather be a little more aggressive, saying can
we circle some wagons and set it at 75% and I'm just rolling that out for what may be the
city council, city government, local governments think, uh, but that ... that was kind of my
plan and (mumbled) before.
Champion/ Dave, uh, what's... what's it going to cost Coralville — it's almost a million isn't it?
Jacoby/ Yeah, Coralville has a significant hit too because uh .... uh, well, condos that were in
place and then, uh, a significant number of condos that were built west of 965. So it...
those did the big switch-a-roo ... there too and it's ... so I think ... it's a bigger... it's going
to be a bigger problem in college communities and then, uh, and then some of our major
metro areas too.
Hayek/ Des Moines is forecasting a lot of pain, urn ... it is ... yeah, it is primarily a college town
issue but ... and we asked the other members of the Metro Coalition to look at it and I
think even they were a little surprised at how much it would impact some of them, not all
of them. Some of them. I ... and that, if you're going to have major property tax reform
and don't include this (several talking) see the legislature kind of having the stomach
after that process (several talking).
Dvorsky/ David's right to have a proposal ready in case, and the language and everything, in
case something happens there. You know frankly you, I know talking about
condominiums or co -op in Des Moines. Lot of legislators have no idea what those are
and how that works. They really don't. We have ... I remember discussion having the
idea of having commercial space on the bottom floor and then have condos or whatever
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up above, and that was just so foreign to ... to some of the ... and I'm not talking ... I'm
talking like a majority of maybe... some of the people around the room there. So... it
really is limited to certain areas.
Bolkcom/ Well I think the other challenge, I mean, the commercial proposal (several talking and
laughing) is ... (several talking)
Dvorsky/ ...representative of most people in Des Moines than we are!
Bolkcom/ Oh my! (laughter) Um...
Jacoby/ You two can talk after the meeting! (laughter)
Dvorsky/ Every ... every redistricting, and there's another one, you know, that's going to happen
in 2012, you think it's going to (mumbled) reflecting a more urban nature of Iowa
but ... you know, this'll be like my third one and I don't know! (laughter)
Bolkcom/ Gotta keep going! (laughter) Um ... I forgot what I was going to say! (laughter) Uh,
well, you know ... doing something on apartments, when we looked at it a few years ago
and basically the residential roll -back to all commercial properties was like a $90 million
bite, right? So in terms of the commercial proposal we have now, the Senate has $200
million they're going to pay for the entire thing, uh, if we ... you know, I think
Representative Jacoby's, uh, compromise is a really good one, but there's a cost ... you
know, trying to figure out how we're going to .... it's great to move ... it would be...it
would be great to do it, but we're going to have to figure out what it costs and just saying,
um, moving it to 75 %. I mean, the co -op gets into the residential roll -back, condos get
`em to the residential roll -back, 75% would be, you know, north of 50 and it'd be a good
place to be, um, but there's a cost to it, as well, and figuring out a way to put that into this
proposal would be a really good thing to do.
Markus/ Do you think the (mumbled) rate will ever increase?
Bolkcom/ (mumbled) paying out 16% of valuation. (several commenting) Our households are
paying about 50 and ... and uh, commercial at 100.
Hayek/ Okay. (several talking)
Jacoby/ Just one word: decouple! (laughter)
Hayek/ Okay. Uh, road use tax. What's going on there?
Bolkcom/ There was a press conference a couple days ago by a bi- partisan group that said let's
do it. Um ... I think it's an up -hill battle. I mean, I think the Speaker of the House just
said they're not going to take it up. The Governor said he doesn't want to see it. Needs
to see more efficiencies in DOT, um ... there's a lot of members that would support it.
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Um, it's an election year. I think people are nervous about raising taxes in an election
year.
Hayek/ Is the hi ... do the higher than anticipated revenues, uh, hurt this issue? That's what I
thought was coming from Branstad's office is that we're (several talking)
Bolkcom/ ...of road use taxes, you know, gas tax and it's (several talking) it's a
separate... separate pot of money.
Jacoby/ Yeah, what ... what really confuses me about the Governor is that...
Lensing/ There's only one thing?
Jacoby/ (laughter) ...trying to keep it on one page ... is that, first of all, he was interested in it,
then because of pressure he wasn't interested in it, and for the life of me why do you
appoint a board or a commission to study it if you already know your answer? So it's a
little frustrating to see the ... the rollercoaster ride and the ... the factor, the thing sitting
behind everyone is still the distribution of the road use tax formula, which obviously
when we did time -21 we ... we ... the good work, Joe and Bob and us and the House, we
redistributed it ... to reflect more where the taxes are being raised. Because my
sophomoric study of the road use tax formula years ago pointed like 47% of the money
that each one of us pay here was going somewhere else, you know, to pay for roads and
even though if you raise the tax, it'll be a percentage increase for us, some day I hope the
road use tax fund reflects where the money's being raised. Because uh ... as much as I
appreciate the new highway 20, the road to nowhere, my in -laws, but uh, the road to
nowhere, Sac City and Rockwell City, it ... 380's hurting! I mean, for those of us that
travel that, so I think that's, I mean, that's secondary to what we're talking about, but uh,
the ... there's uh, 60 Republicans in the House, 54 of `em have signed the no- new -tax
pledge. 54 members. And that pledge is not just an income tax ... it's anything that will
raise any tax or fee (several talking) for anything, uh, so it ... it's ... I'm confused why
we're talking about it in the House side because I've talked to five of those members and
they said there's absolutely no way (mumbled) tax. I go road use helps your area; are
you interested in just talking about it, cause I don't know ... I'm not a big fan of it, uh, but
it ... that's where it sits. 54 members of the House have signed that pledge and there's
very little wiggle room there, especially in an even - number year.
Dvorsky/ Having talked to those two, uh, co- chairs of this commission that the Governor set up,
and they went forward and had all the meetings and everything now, uh, both of `em
were talking about the idea that ... that maybe looking at the, uh, road use tax and that part
that's not gas tax, looking at that...
Jacoby/ The registration?
Dvorsky/ The registration and there's some use tax or something. So there ... it's a lot smaller
increment, but maybe looking at that to start with and some other ... other ways so ... how
wide that is but (several talking)
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Bolkcom/ Yeah, we've been there. We've raised registration fees, uh, a few years ago when we
weren't able to do this, and frankly I am ... I'm really opposed to ... to doing anything
more in registration fees. I think they're really regressive, making registration fees
(several talking)
Dvorsky/ ...like on a car, that sort of thing, that goes in there too that...
Bolkcom/ That's not cheap either, but I just think if we're going to do something about roads we
need to get more money at the pump on every gallon of gas. We ... we give preference to
ethanol now. Maybe we should (mumbled) maybe everybody... maybe we should erase
the ... the advantage ethanol gets at the pump and tax it like we tax gasoline. Um, but
I'm ... I think the registration fee is a bad idea.
Throgmorton/ Can I ask a question about gas tax revenues, uh ... do you all know, how are gas
tax revenues being effected by increasing gasoline efficiency or, um... (both talking)
Bolkcom/ They are. (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Are they going down or ... the rate of growth has declined...
Bolkcom/ I think people that drive efficient cars aren't paying what some people would say they
need to pay more.
Throgmorton/ So, uh, has there been interest in exploring alternative sources of funding, uh, to
(coughing, unable to hear) the revenues that will disappear as autos become more and
more efficient over time?
Bolkcom/ Not really...
Throgmorton/ I know there's been recent (several talking)
Dvorsky/ ...but that doesn't mean the legislature is.
Jacoby/ (mumbled) as if you're driving a Prius, it doesn't rip up the road as much either.
(several talking) No! But I do buy small, and I agree, you know, I don't want to belabor
the topic, but 1100% agree with Joe, Senator Bolkcom, on that ... the registration. The...
when we raised it was one thing, but for those of us who have older vehicles also realize
that we're ... what we did by raising it is you extended the time period that you paid a
certain fee on a car, so it...it shocked me for, uh, for a 10- year -old Chrysler that I own
that I was still paying the same fee on it as I did when I bought it off the lot in 04 or
whatever it was. You know what? That's 146,000 miles on it. I can't sell it for the
registration fee! (laughter) So ... to offset that, so at some point you have to say...
enough's enough and I think that Joe's right on that registration fee.
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Hayek/ You're right though, Jim, I mean, changes ... the trend in consumption, which drives
revenue, is impacting what comes back to municipalities and so that's what we use to
spend, uh, to ... to do repair work on roads and other traffic- related work, and so cities are
increasingly, and I assume counties too, increasingly bonding to, uh, borrowing to ... to
pay for costs which in the past we were able to handle with those revenues, so...
Markus/ So it's a shift to property taxes ultimately. Is what's happening.
Hayek/ Right.
Dvorsky/ I wouldn't give up on this issue, and I know, uh, our leader sort of danced around it in
our caucus, so that means he's working on it and that, uh ... he even appointed me to
Transportation Committee, where ... if I chose to I could vote for this, not have, you
know, pitchforks and knives at me so (laughter).
Bolkcom/ No, I mean, I think if the ... I think if the Governor said `I want this,' we would do it. I
think that we ... we would get it done probably. (several talking) He'll sign it. Members
aren't going to vote on it, make a difficult vote, if they don't think it's going to get across
the finish line. And I think if there were signs sent, we would vote bills.
Jacoby/ Even in spite of that, there's a legislative distrust of the Governor right now (several
talking) that's the one bi- partisan thing we're going ... one of the bi- partisan things we're
going into on Monday is ... as, even if the Governor comes out and says, uh, if you send it
to me I'll sign it, I know, uh, couple of House Republicans that sit next t me will go, `I'm
not so sure!' (mumbled) the workforce issue and ... and a couple other things
are... workforce issue and steel versus lead shot issues are coming to the forefront again.
Hayek/ Interesting! Okay! Well, let's keep moving here. Uh, next item is Amtrak service.
Um ... we, uh, my perspective, I think it was good to decouple, pardon the pun, the
Illinois -Iowa portions of this and then fund the study to take it to ... potentially to Des
Moines and ... and on to Omaha. Um, so I assume we're in a bit of a ... waiting period
here, but we don't want to lose momentum either. And we had a really good meeting, uh,
organized by the Des Moines Area Chamber, uh, business groups, um ... that rally in Des
Moines, and uh ... I was really pleased to see the strong business support in the Des
Moines area for this, and we met with a couple of, uh, Republican legislators, um... you
know, didn't show too much in terms of their cards, but said that the appeal needed to be
broadened to include freight and stuff like that, but any... any thoughts on where this
stands? Any (mumbled)
Dvorsky/ They are, uh, working on the idea of ... of fixing up the rail lines for freight, so that's...
that's one of the selling points that I know some of the lobbyists working on this issue
were talking about doing. Trying to figure out how. The House Republicans have really
been no, no, and no on this issue so I hope that the ... they'll make some inroads there.
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Bolkcom/ I think the City's done a terrific job keeping it, continue to push on it. I've
been ... that's been helpful to just kind of keep the issue front and center for some folks so
good work to ... to you and other Members of the Council who have pushed.
Hayek/ My sense is that we have to be careful though so that ... because I don't think Johnson
County gets very far, uh, on this issue ... if the current proposal is just to have a terminus
in Iowa City ... you know, we need to broaden that (both talking) appeal and that's why
I'm so pleased to (noises on mic) such a leading role (both talking).
Jacoby/ Well, it's always been a goal to go to Des Moines and Omaha, and I think that got short
(several talking) Council Bluffs (laughter and several talking) but uh ... I think to your
point, Mayor, as ... as Johnson County, I don't ... I think everyone knows where everyone
in Johnson County stands on it, but I think part of the statewide organizations, the
Chamber of Commerce has done exemplary work on this, uh .... if we can keep the
League of Cities and everyone else up and running and punching away, uh, and it's good
that you're talking to people in Des Moines, that's what we need to circle those wagons.
There's a handful, uh ... one of the people who has a key role in it, Greg Forristall, from
western Iowa, uh ... absolutely hates trains.
Hayek/ He hates everything!
Jacoby/ Well, he hates (laughter) life, but anyway ... but I'm sure he's fun at parties (several
talking and laughing) but uh ... there (laughter) the problem is more so that, uh, he doesn't
like it. He does have a key position on there, uh, but this is what I heard, honestly, from
him ... directly from him, and I'll stand by it and repeat it what he said is that, uh, he's
afraid no one'll use the train and if they use the train it'll be to leave town.
Champion/ Well I would hope so! Why else would you get on a train? (laughter and several
talking)
Jacoby/ Well, I think he meant one -way trips (several talking) so I ... (mumbled) (several talking)
Yeah! (several talking) But ... but that ... that's his, you know, can't...
Champion/ You know, I ... I think one of the reasons that this becomes more and more positive,
look at this Mega Bus thing, I mean ... I mean, honestly, people will take public
transportation, if it's available and reliable! It blows my mind how many people take that
Mega Bus. It's jam - packed!
Throgmorton/ I've often heard Mega Bus referred to as the alternative to Amtrak or whatever,
and yet you know one of the things that makes it so cheap is they don't have to pay the
infrastructure for having stations. So .... so they externalize the cost of their operation.
So, of course the prices are cheaper!
Markus/ And Mega Bus is an opponent to Amtrak! (several talking) In that bus services are
and ... and uh, some of the folks that lobby against this train issue always throw that up as
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an excuse not to invest more in the rail infrastructure, because they already have that
available.
Hayek/ You know, uh, Geoff Fruin who you met this morning comes, uh, from Normal, Illinois,
and took Dale Helling's position, but they've got an Amtrak station there and their
mayor, uh, came to Des Moines for that rally and gave an incredible PowerPoint on ... on
the economic development around the station there and it was between 200 and 300
million of private sector investment, um ... and that ... what's so weird is that it's a bi-
partisan, uh, has bi- partisan support in so many states, uh, and we brought in people from
Illinois and Michigan (several talking) Yeah, and uh ... so...
Jacoby/ Is there any way you can get a hold of that PowerPoint, just to flip through it?
Fruin/ Yep!
Hayek/ We've got it (several talking) he's taken it and ... and made it relevant to our area, so we
can ... we've got a dog and pony show we can take on the road.
Bolkcom/ I think it's another issue the Governor, who kind of (mumbled) kind of killed us on
this, you know, after the election there was all this reaction to this money coming to
several states and it's like "time out" we've gotta ... we've got a federal deficit and, you
know, all that talk. You know, I think he's just gotten in a terrible place on it.
Hayek/ (several talking) ...personally convinced he is that opposed to it on a personal level. I ... I
don't know.
Markus/ But if you look at where it's been supported and where it's been opposed, it tends to
follow partisan lines. (several talking)
Hayek/ Well, we're doing the study. We'd like to keep up the ... the positive pressure, so let us
know what we can do to ... to do that. Thanks. Uh, next item is 411 pension. This is kind
of a perennial topic we ... we raise. Um ... any insights for 2012?
Jacoby/ Look at the time! (laughter)
Markus/ You know, we recognize that maybe some of the delegation here today is probably not
in a position to support this sort of thing, but one of the things we did in Michigan was
tier the benefits, so new persons in have a different benefit structure and I don't know if
that's been proposed here or not. I think the argument goes that those that are coming in
then know what the system is, instead of those that are already here.
Jacoby/ I have not seen it in writing, but I have heard from a reliable source that something like
that will be in writing next week. (several talking)
Markus/ Would you get behind that?
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Jacoby/ I haven't read it yet. (laughter)
Markus/ Good answer! (laughter and several talking)
Jacoby/ (mumbled) (several responding) I know it's separate but (several talking)
Lensing/ ...but we only had one day, to meet, so we made no recommendations and my
understanding is we'll get back. IPERS and ... and the pension group, to ... at the
beginning of session, to make ... to kind of go through and make recommendations,
because we didn't have time. We had all the presentations and that's as far as we got.
Markus/ You know, because this is a state issue that the cities really, I mean, we can't negotiate
these benefits at all, so ... it's off - limits for us.
Hayek/ Okay. Um ... this gets back to what we alluded to earlier, but commercial property tax,
uh, change and making sure there's protection for localities, either through back -fill or
alternative revenue. I see something being passed around.
Bolkcom/ (mumbled) advantage of the opportunity, it's a one -page fact sheet on the Senate's bi-
partisan proposal (several talking). Just a summary. Um ... I mean, I think there's been
all sorts of. ... I mean, this is like one of the main stories of the pre- session leadership
meetings and the Governor's obviously interested. I don't know where we're going to
end upon this. Um ... there's quite different approaches. I ... I'm not sure that the
Governor's proposal takes away the major concerns of cities at this point on shift, cost
shift, uh, to residential, um....um, taxpayers, um ... um, as being probably the primary
concern, um, so we'll ... I guess we'll see where we go. I wonder, uh, Senator Dvorsky
and I visited briefly about this. If there's, I mean, back to the TIF issue for a second as
we look at...at trying to deal with this, is the notion of, um, and it gets to the question of
local revenue options here, but trying to think about making it easier for cities to pass
bond referendums and lowering the threshold from 60% to 50 %, plus one vote, um,
whether there's some opportunity to, um, take a run at that, uh ... Bob indicates that, or
Senator Dvorsky notes that in the past it's been introduced and you can't get much
attention for it, but I wonder if it's a play ... it may have a place in the conversation back
to the TIF issue, and ... and you know, one of the arguments is TIF's been the only real
tool communities have had to do a lot of things, because we've made it so darn hard to
raise revenue in other areas, and I think the bond, you know, the 6)% is really quite a
threshold for paying for ... cause as I think we've learned, lot of communities are paying
for things like civic centers and uh, so you know... recreation buildings and libraries with
TIF funds. We, I don't think we ever intended that, but I think it's easier to get that
money, than it is to go to the taxpayers with ... with the standard kind of, general
obligation... general obligation bond request, so I throw that out as just an idea that I
think we ought to ... we ought to put in writing and see what ... see what interest we might
build and get as a ... if we're going to do some things to tighten up TIF, look at making it
a little bit easier, uh ... or substantially easier, um, a majority vote, uh, to raise revenues.
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Jacoby/ Again, there's little... there's just, the common denominator is that both chambers agree
that commercial property tax isn't a fair or equitable system. Uh ... the House bill, some
of the inside baseball which is extremely disappointing to me is the first round when the
bill was run through Ways and Means, the bill ... I walk up to the bill manager and said,
`How we gonna make schools whole or how do we affect that ?' And he says this bill
doesn't affect schools, does it? (laughter) This is the ... these are the two gentlemen that
were running the bill on commercial property tax. So that's... that's the starting blocks of
it. Uh, I think, you know, to write ... the Senate plan recognizes the need and gives some
money, gets some money back to business owners, but it ... but it also doesn't help in a
business plan for the next couple years, cause I don't know what my rates gonna be. I
don't know if I'll get money back. I think there's some compromise for somewhere in
the middle. I still think the best route is to do a gradual reduction in that rate of I% per
year. I ... it's impossible to say, do the 5% per year, to reach 40 %, uh, and to say the State
will back -fill it, and that is the word in my ever -so- humble opinion that we all have to
keep repeating is back -fill. Because it's true. If you're back - filling a tax with a tax, what
the hell is that?
Mims/ Well, they've never back - filled, I mean, I remember when I was on the School Board, I
mean, there ... what they're supposed to pay in certain school things, back - filling for
special ed and stuff, and they've never kept up with (both talking). They may start but
they've never kept up so...
Markus/ You kind of do that with TIF and schools though too, Dave.
Jacoby/ Yeah, well (laughter) if you want to meld the two, we sure can (laughter) but the schools
actually have a somewhat better guarantee coming back from the State, either you're
arguably 44, but it's 87 %, uh ... that comes back from that generated sales tax. I know
we're going to get in a TIF fight yet today! (laughter) But ... but standard
commercial... we'll go back to TIF, because I do have a couple other comments on it. Is
that, uh, on the commercial I think we have to do something to reach in the middle there
because I don't think ... I don't trust ... I don't trust the State to back -fill it for very long.
(several talking) Just for us with longer memories, I was on the City Council when we
got blessed with Highway 965, and... and 965, so here the City of Coralville was doing
maintenance on a highway where... where's the main DOT office? 965. So we had to go
shovel the DOT out. I mean, that's over - simplifying, but that's what happened and of
course then the money goes away. Now North Liberty and Coralville, and some... to
some extent Iowa City, because if it's extended, are dealing with 965. (several talking)
I ... I know, North Liberty did, but...
Bolkcom/ The Senate proposal actually recognizes that there's not a lot of trust between local
governments and ... and the State, saying we're going to do this wonderful thing for
taxpayers and then following through. Our ... our property tax proposal is triggered to
state growth. If we have 4% state growth, we'll add another $50 million increment. If
we don't have 4% state growth, we'll pass that year; the next year 4 %. So we at least
acknowledge in our proposal the idea that if we're going to share ... if we're going to
provide this wonderful benefit to commercial property taxpayers, we'll do it when we,
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the State, have resources to share with, uh, commercial property tax owners. So the
Governor's proposal is just kind of...as Representative Jac ... Jacoby notes, 5% a year for
eight years, 40% reduction, doesn't... whether the State has the money or not, I mean, we
...we do go through economic cycles where state revenues are good and then they're not,
uh, and so I think our proposal actually is quite responsible in that way, to say when we
have revenue at the State, we're willing to share some of it. To deal with this issue. The
other ... I think the other ... the big rub I think that we're going to have with the Governor's
proposal as you see in the chart on the bottom, uh, we really don't think in the Senate that
we should spend several hundred million dollars on large out of state, uh, corporate
property tax reductions, for companies that essentially are not going to leave the state.
Uh, a lot of these companies are here because there are consumers here, and they're not
going away, and they're going to be here whether our taxes are what they are today, uh,
or whether we reduce em by 40 %. In many cases I think this is the only place (mumbled)
lobbyists, they have had their way with the tax code, they're probably providing little by
the way of state corporate income taxes to us. This is the place at the local level where
they support our schools, where they support the infrastructure that supports, you know,
their businesses, and so, uh, I think we are going to be in a really hard place if the
Governor stands strong on, uh, reducing Walmart's commercial property taxes $7 million
a year... statewide.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Bolkcom/ So I think that's a big philosophical difference we have, but I think it's a challenge
we're going to face pretty indirectly. The other is the attachment of the earned income
tax credit to this proposal. Governor vetoed our top tax priority to provide more money
(several talking) to working people, the people that most need it, and uh, the ... the Senate
leaders said there's ... we are not doing any commercial property taxes without a firm
commitment to make progress on that.
Jacoby/ And that ... that was bi- partisan out of Conference committee.
Bolkcom/ Passed both the House and Senate...
Jacoby/ ... so that goes to the trust factor with the Governor too.
Bolkcom/ That's a top trust factor in my mind (both talking) that issue.
Jacoby/ That is definitely the top.
Markus/ You know, Joe, when I read this I think the, um, the argument you make about the big
corporations, Walmart, urn ... Menard's and others, I think that resounds stronger than just
about anything on this piece.
Bolkcom/ Do you? Okay.
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Mims/ I think it does too. I mean, as we talk here about, you know, interstate commerce and
companies who can locate anywhere they want to, um, versus people who have to be near
the consumer, you know, like you say... why... why give, and I understand they could
look at it and say well, we're commercial just like anybody else is, but when you're
talking about, particularly like the retail that if they're going to be here and want
consumers here, they've got to be here physically, and giving them this significant tax
break, versus other entities who could locate other places and also in many cases might
be providing higher - paying jobs, as well, to Iowans. I mean, retail does not tend to be the
highest paying, uh, type of employment, and so to give them those kinds of tax breaks,
um, I would agree with Tom — that's ... that is really impressive in that bottom chart.
Bolkcom/ They still get a cut. Everybody on (mumbled) gets something, but it's four out of five
small businesses get more than a 40% reduction.
Markus/ Out of all the taxes commercial pays, is it property tax that's the problem?
Bolkcom/ Sure.
Markus/ Is it?
Bolkcom/ I think it ... I mean, they would say it is, I think. In terms of their tax burden, yeah.
Markus/ So you saw that email I sent you.
Bolkcom/ Yes I did!
Hayek/ It's going to be an interesting topic! (laughter) Huge! You know, it's interesting that
the Metro Coalition had ... threw out the statistic, um ... I think they're about 70% of the
population, the ... the metro communities, and represent about 70% of the GDP state-
wide, and that's their message. This ... don't bite the hand that feeds so much of state
revenue.
Bolkcom/ Well, and the other thing, I mean, I think being vigilant this session, I mean, really
early on, there was a report this morning saying they're going to try to move this early. I
don't really see that, but it's good ... it's a good hope. Is, uh, the cities paid a substantial
role in slowing this thing down, I mean, if it weren't for the work of the cities, uh, this
would have ... this would have moved ahead. So, um, I think people... and I know that the
Governor's been trying ... he's been meeting with some local Republican elected officials,
trying to get a group of local elected officials in support of his proposal and kind of
divide the interest a little bit, and so people need to be active, and I think they ... I'm
certain that will happen but, um, they're getting organ... they've gotten organized over
the summer to try to get some local elected officials to be on board their proposal.
Dvorsky/ Has the Metro Coalition looked at the ... their senators and representatives, do they
represent 70% of the ... I mean, the senators and representatives that represent the Metro
Coalition, do they represent 70% of the state then or what's the... percentage that they?
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Hayek/ I don't know.
Dvorsky/ That would be interesting to note, and ... you know, Polk County is really divided, I
mean, they don't get together essentially on anything. The only group that really kind of
works together somewhat is Linn and Johnson. And we've tried, you know.
Unfortunately now with the House, the three Republican House Members aren't too
cooperative, but in the past when Senator was there and others, we did work
together on things. So it really is a ... it's kind of interesting that sometimes Linn and
Johnson can do better than (mumbled) because they're never together on anything. But if
they could ever get, you know, Metro Coalition together, I know there's been various
meetings, but often times it's a meeting for Des Moines and then we're invited as an
afterthought. (several talking)
Jacoby/ Well, I really wonder about Polk County anyway! (laughter)
Hayek/ Is your mic working? (laughter) Uh, all right, let's keep moving and wrap up here in
just a couple minutes. Uh, last item is alcohol, local regulatory authority. This is, you
know, a college town problem, and we've talked about this before. Our .... our, we've run
into problems trying to use, uh, liquor license, uh, approaches to extracting better
behavior out of our proprietors locally and it's run us into problems with ABD. We've
...we've been able to address that somewhat by other means that don't have anything to
do with the liquor license itself, but um, and we've ... we've met with ABD and talked
about this problem that we have. Um, but having more, essentially home rule on ... on an
issue like that ... uh, would be helpful. We recognize it's not a huge, uh, issue shared by
lots and lots of communities, but... it matters here.
Bolkcom/ We've had some bills, I mean, Polk County has had this, um, Polk County legislators
who have a few convenience stores where there's a lot of disruptive behavior and ... so
there's been some interest to try and give local (several talking) some more authority in
that regard, but I think we had this discussion about what moral character and ... and the
criteria, um, and we ... we actually got kind of bogged down. I know Senator McCoy, uh,
is the new Commerce chair. This was a Commerce issue, uh, last year, uh, he's sensitive
to this issue and has worked on it. So there might be some opportunity. I don't know
what ... what proposal, if...if, to revisit what we tried last year, uh...
Lensing/ ...two years ago, at least in the House, didn't we do nuisance bars? That came out of
Cedar Falls ... I think Deb Berry, that was her bill. Did we pass that? And did you not get
it? I want to say ... two, three years ago? Not ringing any bell? (unable to hear person
away from mic)
Jacoby/ Yeah.
Lensing/ But I thought there was one we did ahead of that! (several talking)
Harder/ I don't know about that one. I just know that there was one that...
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Lensing/ Yeah, I ran that one (both talking)
Harder/ ...that said the bar has to have, it can't just kick people out into the parking lot.
Lensing/ Right, right!
Harder/ They have to actually have control over that part of the premises as well, and I know that
that one did pass.
Lensing/ Thought there was one ahead of that.
Harder/ There may have been. I don't remember that one.
Lensing/ (both talking) maybe it didn't get anywhere.
Bolkcom/ It was ... that, the parking lot thing was actually a couple session's worth of work.
Harder/ Yeah, it took a long time to get that.
Bolkcom/ Well people were nervous, you know, you're going to make a bar owner, what's the
parking lot, is it across the street, that parking lot too, and, I mean, it got kind of involved
about what we're making a small business owner patrol and pay attention to, if it's
his ... if it's that person's property or the adjacent, so it got a little... things get more
complicated than they appear... sometimes!
Hayek/ Dubuque has also had issues, um, they got ... they got reversed by the ABD on a ... on a
local liquor license issue just as we did so...
Bolkcom/ How does the City feel about infusion?
Champion/ Oh! (laughter)
Hayek/ Infusion?
Champion/ (several talking)
Hayek/ Had some this morning! (laughter)
Throgmorton/ Are you planning to introduce a bill, Joe?
Bolkcom/ Yeah, I think there's going to be like, I mean, we have ... anyway, sorry (mumbled)
(laughter and several talking)
Hayek/ Okay, um ... you know, as a general matter this is the last part of our piece, you know,
we're supportive of the League principles and supportive of the Metro Coalition
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principles, you know, to some extent we differ from them, and that's what you've seen
before you here, and what we've talked about this morning.
Markus/ Just one other issue. Steve Long brought something to my attention about ... dam
financing. Can you... update ... (several talking and laughing).
Long/ Actually this is a DNR program. The low -head dam public hazard program. It was
previously funded and it was not funded, I believe, this year. Um, this would work well
for our proposed white -water park on the Iowa River, south of Burlington Street. So if
there's ... if that comes up ... please .... please, for my sake, and I hope for the rest of you
(laughter) consider supporting that as well to ... to allocate funding.
Bolkcom/ Yeah, sounds good! We, I mean, this was ... this has been a priority of some ... some
members, um, to try and get people out and ... on Iowa's waterways and the ... the water
trails program and dealing with these ... once we get people out on the rivers, we've got to
deal with these dams and um, we had some resources — not much — you know, just like a
few million dollars, uh... it was too bad this last election, uh, there were actually
commercials run against some of our members that supported, you know, kayaks or
somebody, you know, you get these crazy commercials. You see these (mumbled) to
support certain things and there were like... so people got kind of edgy about that, but I
think there's... Senator McCoy who's ... done the infrastructure funding, he's been
supportive and, um, I think we just need to try and push forward again. The Department
has a great program, with a lot of interest from the recreational paddling community to do
more here. (unable to hear person away from mic)
Long/ ....walk across that bridge, so it's also a safety issue from the University's perspective.
Bolkcom/ Sure!
Hayek/ Okay! Tom, anything else you want to...
Markus/ I think that was it!
Hayek/ ...well thank you for your time! We value the relationship and uh, the open line of
communication and as always, if there's anything we can do to help you in Des Moines,
let us know! All right, well good luck! (several talking)
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