HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-03-20 TranscriptionPage 1
ITEM 2. OUTSTANDING STUDENT CITIZENSHIP AWARDS — Lemme
Elementary
Mims: Would the students from Lemme Elementary come forward please! (applause)
Welcome! Uh, you are the Lemme Leopards! Congratulations, um, I am Susan
Mims, Mayor Pro Tem and this is the City Council, want to welcome you and
your parents and teachers and family members here, and congratulate you on this
outstanding award. Uh, I see each of you have a piece of paper, a little letter to
read to us, so I'll just hand you the microphone and let you (mumbled)
Wright: Hi, my name is Luke. I'm 12 and I'm in 6th grade. I go to Lemme Elementary
School. I'm in the Lemme science club, orchestra, and band which is a lot of fun.
I think being a good citizen and good citizenship doesn't have to be big things but
can just be little things like doing homework or just helping out your neighbors.
I'm honored that I have been nominated for this award. It means a lot to me.
Thanks! (applause)
Bills: I am Isaac Bills. I think being a good citizen means being thoughtful of other
people and being fair. I try to be accepting and understanding of everyone.
Sometimes people get aggravated with someone else, thinking that the other
person is being ru ... rude or uncooperative. When that happens I try to think
about what may be happening. For example that may ... that person may have
something else on their mind, having a hard time, or is having a bad day. I always
want to be fair even when no one is watching or would necessarily know that I am
doing the right thing. By trying to be ... behave honestly, fairly, and with
consideration of other students and everyone, I am being a good citizen. I'm
thankful to be honored for my efforts tonight. (applause)
Strang: I'm Rachel Strang and I am a student at Lemme Elementary School. I think being
a good citizen is helping those around you to make your community a better place
to live. And, um ... I've had the opportunity at Lemme to be part of lunch duty
and safety patrol, and I'm also vice president of Kiwanis Kids. I have been a
member for four years and one of the things we did this year was have a lemonade
stand to raise money for tetanus shots for needy children. Thank you. (applause)
Mims: Very well done! I want to congratulate all three of you. You're getting off to a
great start in terms of contributing to your school and your community, and
developing leadership skills so maybe, uh, as Mayor Hayek always says, maybe
someday we'll see you sitting up here in one of these chairs, as well! I have a
certificate for each of you. Let me read these: they're all the same. It says
Citizenship Award, for his or her outstanding qualities of leadership within el
...Lemme Elementary, as well as the community, and for his or her sense of
responsibility and helpfulness to others, we recognize you as an Outstanding
Student Citizen. Your community is proud of you. Presented by the Iowa City
City Council, March 2012. (applause) Again, congratulation to each of you and
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
formal meeting of March 20, 2012.
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thank you to your parents and teachers and all the support you have in your
community. Congratulations! (applause)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
formal meeting of March 20, 2012.
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ITEM 5. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
C. AMENDING TITLE 14, ZONING, SUBSECTION 14- 2C -8Q,
BONUS PROVISIONS, ADDING A FLOOR AREA BONUS FOR
CONSTRUCTING CLASS A OFFICE SPACE ON UPPER FLOORS
WITHIN A MULTI -STORY BUILDING IN A CENTRAL
BUSINESS (CB -10) ZONE.
1. PUBLIC HEARING
Mims: This is a public hearing. (bangs gavel) Public hearing is open. Public hearing is
closed. (bangs gavel)
2. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Dobyns: Move first consideration.
Champion: Second.
Mims: Moved by Dobyns, seconded by Champion. Any discussion?
Throgmorton: Well, we ... we discussed it during the work session and uh, I addressed a question
to Jeff Davidson. He answered it to my satisfaction, so I ... I'm certainly willing to
support this.
Mims: Well, it gives a bonus opportunity, um, for more residential square footage if
people build, uh, to Class A standards for office space, which we are in need of in
the downtown area. We're always ... have people looking for that. Okay. Roll
call, please. Passes 6 -0.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
formal meeting of March 20, 2012.
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ITEM 5. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
d. AMENDING TITLE 14, ZONING, ARTICLE 9A, GENERAL
DEFINITIONS, CHANGING THE DEFINITION OF
"HOUSEHOLD" AS IT APPLIES IN THE RM -44, PRM, RNS -20,
RM -20, AND CO -1 ZONES.
1. PUBLIC HEARING
Mims: This is a public hearing. (bangs gavel) Public hearing is open.
Dilkes: Madame Mayor, can I just ... make one thing clear for the record. Contrary to
what the beginning of the Planning and Zoning, uh, items state, 5.d, uh, is not the
type of quasi-judicial, uh, preceding that would require ex -parte, uh, disclosures.
Therefore you need not make them.
Mims: Okay. Thank you.
Howard: Good evening! My name is Karen Howard. I work for the Planning Department
for the City and I'd like to take the opportunity, um, a few minutes because
zoning code amendments can sometimes be complicated and difficult to
understand, and there's been a lot of discussion at both the Planning and Zoning
Commission and I'm he ... I'm sure you've heard from your constituents, as well,
um, about this particular amendment and other future amendments, uh, that will
come before you related to these issues. Um, so I'd like to describe briefly the
current and proposed standards, uh, address some of the concerns, questions, and
misconceptions that have surrounded this issue, and then relate the proposed
amendments to your 2012/13 strategic plan goals. Um, these goals are the ... the
goals related to economic and community development, development of the
downtown and near downtown areas, and your neigh ... your dev ... your goal for
neighborhood stabilization. The proposed change that's in front of you this
evening is a change to the residential occupancy standard in the zoning ordinance.
Uh, it is a change to a definition of household as it applies in the zones RM -44,
PRM, which are the two high- density, multi - family zones; the RNS -20 and RM-
20 zones, which are the medium density, multi - family zones; and the commercial
office zone. To reduce the number of unrelated persons allowed within one
dwelling unit and ... and change that to a maximum of three. Now it should be
noted that in all other zones in the city, the maximum number of unrelated
persons allowed per dwelling unit is already three. This amendment will make
the definition in the subject zones the same as currently applies in all other areas
of the city. It also should be noted, because there's been some confusion about
this issue, that all existing rental units will be grandfathered and will not be
affected by this change. The grandfather rights also continue even if a rental
property is sold to a new owner. This, uh, on the slide here, it shows actually
what the definition of household is and how it would change. Um, the definition
of household, of course, includes a single person or a family of various types, but
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
formal meeting of March 20, 2012.
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the, uh, the ... uh, bullet point that's highlighted here is what's changing, um,
currently in some of the zones. It allows four unrelated persons and in the ... in
the high density, multi - family zones it allows five. So the change would be a
change to, um, have that limited to three unrelated persons.
Champion: Can I just clarify something? Um, cause some of the calls I've had, well, like two
married people cannot live in the same house if they want, but that's not true
because they're considered related so you'd only have two unrelated people (both
talking)
Howard: Right. We have ... as you can see here the definition is fairly complicated.
Champion: Right!
Howard: It includes group households of all types. It includes families of all types. It
includes singles, couples, um... so the thing that we're focusing on tonight though
is just the number of unrelated persons (both talking)
Champion: Right! Right!
Throgmorton: Karen, I have a ... a related, excuse me, a related question, uh, which maybe is
addressed somewhere, uh, in the innards of all this, but ... uh, I'm imagining an
unmarried couple in which one of the members happens to have two or more
children. So you end up with four people. Would ... would that constitute more
than three unrelated persons?
Howard: No. So you can see the definition here, two or more persons related by blood,
marriage, adoption, placement by a governmental or social service agency, plus
up to one unrelated person.
Dickens: I do have one ... one question on the grandfathering. Would a change ... would it
change if that ... realize it goes to the next person if they buy it, but if it's torn
down then it would be a whole `nother...
Howard: Right, if somebody chooses to tear down the property and build a new ... new
building, of course it would have to comply with any ... with any change to the
zoning ordinance, urn ... grandfather's rights are lost at that point. Um ... so just
in ... to recap then, the RNS -20, RM -20, and CO -1 zones currently allow up to
four unrelated persons per unit. And the RM -44 and PRM zones allow, uh, five.
It is this allowance for up to five unrelated persons per unit, in combination with
the fact that the current zoning standards, uh, for residential occ, uh, density
require the same amount of lot area for a five- bedroom apartment as for a one-
bedroom apartment. These two things in combination have created an imbalance
in the market in the medium and high- density, multi - family zones. And in the
CO -1 zone. It is our zoning standards combined with a strong market for student
housing in Iowa City that have created an incentive to build large dorm -like
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apartments containing four or five bedrooms to the virtual exclusion of other
types and sizes of apartments. The low vacan ... current low vacancy rates and
high prices for smaller units, particularly one - bedroom units, indicates that there
is a strong unmet demand for these smaller units. Some historical context here,
when the residential density and occupancy standards were established some 30
years ago, most of the apartments being built were one and two- bedroom units.
However, since the mid -1990s over 70% of the apartments built in downtown in
the Central Planning District have been four and five- bedroom apartments,
intended for only one demographic — undergraduate college students. The
occupancy standard that allows up to five unrelated persons to live together within
one unit has resulted in more than doubling the number of persons per dwelling
unit over what was originally anticipated when these standards were established
in the 70s. And so the question is why has this occurred, um, why did ... why
didn't this happen in the 70s or earlier. Because the University, of course, has
been here a long time. Um, this graphic shows that undergraduate enrollment has
increased 60% since the last dormitory was built in 1968. While the dormitory
capacity at the University of Iowa has only increased about 6 %. And this is a
graphic that you saw at an earlier meeting several weeks ago that shows that, um,
on campus housing as a percentage of housing units, um, in comparison to other
university towns ... and you can see that Iowa City, University of Iowa, has a fairly
low percentage of on- campus housing. So what are other college towns doing?
We did quite a bit of research on this, and I won't go into any great detail on ...on
these points, but there are a number of things... approaches being taken by ... by
colleges ... by college towns. They do have limits on the number of unrelated
persons per unit. They do have ... a number of communities have graduated
residential density standards based on the number of bedrooms, rather than on
number of units. They have designated university impact areas where their
standards are different. They have higher parking requirements near campus.
Large apartments in several communities, um, notably Madison, Wisconsin and
Lincoln, Nebraska, large apartments that contain more than three bedrooms are
only allowed by conditional use permit. So they're not allowed by right, and they
have to be reviewed and approved by a planning board or commission. Other
communities also have minimum usable open space requirements, larger setbacks,
and larger spacing requirements between buildings than what we currently have in
Iowa City. Now there has been a precedent for this particular change to the
definition of occupancy. We made similar changes in 2005 when we adopted the
new zoning ordinance, and as you can see on the slide here, there were a lot of
zones where we ratcheted down the occupancy standard. And then in 2008, we
changed the standard in the downtown zones. So all rental units containing four
or more bedrooms in these zones are grandfathered, and we have had no problems
with that grandfathering approach. Now, we've heard a number of arguments at
the Planning and Zoning Commission, um, and at the staff level ... that were made,
both in 2000...2005 and 2008, about these ... this particular zoning code change to
the definition of household that this could cripple economic development, reduce
property values, reduce the tax base, yet new construction of apartments in the
downtown area has continued at a remarkable rate ... in recent ... even despite the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
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recent recession. So despite the change in 2008 to reduce the occupancy stan...
occupancy standard in the downtown zones to three, um ... three unrelated persons
per unit, there are currently three large multi - family, mixed use buildings under
construction, three buildings under design, and several more in the concept stage.
Recent projects have achieved between 6...60 and 100 units per acre, in the
downtown area. In the Central Business zones. And in comparison to what
residential density, so you have some... some comparison, in like North Liberty,
Coralville — the multi - family residential densities are more like 12 to 20 units per
acre.
Mims: Karen, are you talking again units or bedrooms?
Howard: Units, but also ... but the apartments in the downtown ar ... area also have more...
large, more apart ... more bedrooms. Now the four and five- bedroom dorm -like
apartments are generally not very attractive or affordable to any tenants other than
undergraduate students, um, and I've heard some ... some people mention, well,
what about a large family. They might like a large ... large apartment, but the rents
for a five- bedroom apartment near campus is about $2,500 per month. Because
they're leased on a per- bedroom basis. So limiting the number of unrelated
persons per unit to three will effectively eliminate the construction of what has
been referred to as "unsupervised dormitories," which'll help address the negative
effects that such high densities have on the community, as well as help ensure that
a form of housing with limited market is not overbuilt. This change, along with
the proposed changes that you'll hear in the next several weeks to provide a
density bonus for smaller apartments will open up new opportunities for graduate
students, young professionals, couples, and families to live in the downtown area,
and will provide other options for undergraduate students who don't want to live
in four and five - bedroom units. Now I want to relate this briefly to your strategic
plan goals. What we tried to do in drafting the zoning code amendments is to
consider the Council's strategic plan goals, um, and have been listed here again.
Economic development, development in the downtown, and neighborhood
stabilization. And generally what we have found based on our research in other
college communities and looking at our zoning standards as they're currently
configured, is that we believe that the healthy neighborhoods equal a... a healthy
economy. High- density neighborhoods that are planned and designed to achieve a
high - quality living environment will have higher property values, be more stable,
and generate more property taxes than high - density neighborhoods that are poorly
designed or that cater only to one demographic. Multi - family housing that serves
only one population may also reduce the marketability of downtown Iowa City, to
new businesses and employers. Establishing standards that provide opportunities
for a diversity of residents, including students and professionals, families, and
retirees will help support a diversity of downtown businesses, as well. It also
should be noted that keeping the current standards may reduce the ability to
sustain neighborhood schools and other community institutions in our close -in
neighborhoods that rely on a stable population of long -term residents, regardless
of whether they're renters or owners. We've also heard that ... this zoning
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
formal meeting of March 20, 2012.
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amendment will add to development pressure in older neighborhoods or cause
urban sprawl. Now that would only be the case if there were no new
opportunities being offered. And this is a graphic of downtown Iowa City and the
Riverfront Crossings district, which are two goals you have for developing those
areas. So there's a lot of new opportunities for high- density housing in these
areas, uh, there's a potential conservatively for about 2,000 to 3,000 additional
residential units in Riverfront Crossings and downtown. Um, and then we're also
exploring this option to, uh, come up with a new definition for a private dormitory
standard, which would be a high- density dorm environment, uh, but providing
services, amenities, and supervision, more similar to on- campus housing, and then
we would allow that in certain areas close to campus. So we're ... we're exploring
a lot of, this is just one step in this whole effort to ... to stabilize and ... and provide
a diversity of housing options in the downtown area. So in summary, uh, the
recommendation from staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission, we
recommend approval of the proposed change to the definition of household. This
is a first step in addressing recent concerns about the stability and long -term
economic health of downtown Iowa City and the surrounding residential
neighborhoods. And I'd be happy to answer any questions.
Mims: Thank you, Karen. Appreciate it! Questions... from Council? For Karen?
Throgmorton: If ... if I understand you correctly, Karen, one of the things you're saying is that
the proposals, uh, would, uh, both help us stabilize neighborhoods and provide
investment opportunities for business people who want to construct buildings that
will meet a housing need in ... in certain parts of the city. Uh, so that we could
accomplish both objectives simultaneously.
Howard: Right. Yeah, I believe that to be true.
Mims: Other questions for Karen? Thank you very much. Appreciate it, Karen. At this
point in time the public hearing is still open. Those of you in the audience who
would like to make comment to the Council are welcome to. We need you to sign
in, come forward, uh, given the number that I think we may have wanting to
address us, I'm going to ask you to limit your comments to three minutes and
would appreciate if you have something to, uh, say that is not just, uh, a repeat of
something that somebody else has said so that we can hear as much different, uh,
information and input, um, as possible. So ... open up for the public who would
like to address us on this issue.
Mentz: Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name's Tom Mentz. I'm a 28 -year
resident of Iowa City. I own three five - bedroom houses at the southeast corner of
Dodge and Bowery Streets. I don't own multi - hundred unit buildings. I'm a very
small time property investor, and I've strived to maintain these houses to the
utmost condition. In fact, um, several rental inspectors have given me kudos for
having some of the best maintained houses in Iowa City. Uh, I've two ... I have
two concerns about the proposal that's on the table. One is, uh, in the event that
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
formal meeting of March 20, 2012.
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we have a tornado or other disaster in Iowa City, I would be unable to rebuild
these houses as they are. Uh, the second is a clause that I saw in the proposal, that
calls for an amortization of, uh, properties that are zoned for five people, that
there would be an attempt to reduce those to three over time. Um, these houses
are hundred -year -old houses. I've strived to maintain the character of these
houses and maintain that look and feel. Uh, in that block there are probably
hundreds, I would guess probably 400 to 500 students. Uh, this has the effect of
reducing, um, there's a handful of houses that are in the RM -44 zone, uh, in that
area, and it has the effect of potentially reducing that neighborhood by ten people
when there's already over several hundred kids in that block. This is never going
to be a family neighborhood, like it or not. It's just too close to campus. So as
the Council, uh, works through this, I ask you to, uh, be very careful that you do
not paint with a broad brush, and uh, greatly affect small time investors like
myself who have great pride in the, uh, the houses that we have. Thank you.
Mims: Thank you for your comments. Others who would like to address the Council?
Clark: Good evening, Sarah Clark, um, 509 Brown Street. Uh, recent news coverage has
intimated that the proposed zoning changes are just another scrimmage in an
ongoing debate between college students and full -time residents. I want to be
perfectly clear: neighborhood advocates are not trying to keep students out of the
city's central neighborhoods. Students already live among us in large numbers.
A study done last fall by a graduate student in the University's Department of
Urban and Regional Planning found that 46% of the dwelling units and my
northside neighborhood are classified as short-term rentals, that is tenure lasting
12 to 15 months. This is not . Neighborhood advocates are in favor of
zoning regulations and development that provides opportunities for all segments
of our population to take advantage of the desirable qualities found in our central
neighborhoods. The City's own Comprehensive Plan advocates for
neighborhoods, supporting the principle of diversity of housing types and
households. We would like to see well - designed student accommodations that
actually fit the specific needs and lifestyles of students. A University of Maryland
student of student housing found that overwhelmingly students want housing that
provides quiet study areas, added security, and common areas for socializing. I
doubt that Iowa students would answer that survey any differently. Based on my
review of apartment floor plans found on various local development/apartment
management company web sites, the four and five - bedroom units in Iowa City
fall woefully short as well designed student accommodation. The buildings don't
incorporate either common spaces for socializing or separate quiet study areas.
Bedrooms are typically in the 9 by 11 range. The living room is made smaller
because it also serves as the primary path of travel between the kitchen and
bedrooms. Some people refer to these four to five — bedroom apartments as being
nothing more than unsupervised dormitories. In my opinion they are worse than
unsupervised dormitories because the dorms at least have on -site management and
provide areas for socializing and quiet study. The primarily undergraduate, young
adults who live in these off - campus accommodations should be treated better than
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
formal meeting of March 20, 2012.
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sardines. Is it beyond our reach to expect housing development that provides
opportunities for all of us? Are we forever tied to a housing type that exacerbates
the problems we see in our central neighborhoods when there are better options?
I encourage you to vote in favor of the proposed change to the number of
unrelated persons allowed to reside within a dwelling unit, which would only
make the definition the same as currently applied to other zones in the city.
Thanks very much!
Mims: Thank you for your comments.
Plahutnik: Hello! Wally Plahutnik, 430 N. Gilbert Street. And this is ... pretty quick
comment. Just to remind you, uh ... Planning and Zoning Commission has as their
guide the Comprehensive Plan and so does the City Council. So, in any of these
questions, it's a relatively simple matter to look up the appropriate language from
the Comprehensive Plan and see how this matter applies to it. Um ... maximizing
profit for developers ... uh, individual concerns of neighbors, those are all things
that need to be balanced but if a Comprehensive Plan says this is an area slated for
massive development, generally speaking the ... the concerns of the neighbors
have to kind of be ... moved to the side a bit and the City follows the
Comprehensive Plan, trusting that it was developed with long -term goals in sight.
On the other hand, if it says that areas need to be preserved, uh, very cautious
development needs to be done, this is something where you look at the
Comprehensive Plan and say, in this instance I guess we have to shade a little bit
on, with caution as to regards of the plans of the developers. So ... very simple.
Uh, not guiding you one way or the other, but simply take very, very careful look
at the Comprehensive Plan and see where this directs you. Thank you.
Mims: Thank you for your comments.
Welu - Reynolds: Hello, my name is Chris Welu- Reynolds, and um, about a month ago I
came to a City Council meeting and a developer was here providing information
to the City Council about a proposed development on the east side of Iowa City.
It included a mix of different sized units. There was plenty of parking for those
who live there and for visitors. The flow of traffic was considered. And attention
was paid in regards to the style of the building and whether it would fit in the
neighborhood. I was envious and for once speechless, because of the thoughtful
planning that went into such a development, especially when it came to the impact
on the surrounding neighborhoods. This same thought and consideration needs to
be taken with the zones being considered tonight. Limiting the number of
unrelated people that can reside within a dwelling unit to three or less is one way
to avoid the further deterioration of our Central District neighborhoods. An
article in the Gazette appeared yesterday that stated that there's a shortage of
rental units available that has caused rents to rise and students to move out into
surrounding neighborhoods. I agree! There is a shortage of rental units available
for anyone who's single, for a couple, or someone trying to raise a family.
Allowing four to five - bedroom apartments does nothing to solve this problem. A
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council
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single student or a professional is not going to rent a four or five- bedroom
apartment. A couple couldn't afford it. A... a family certainly is not, who can
afford a four to five- bedroom apartment, is going to rent a house rather than a four
to five- bedroom apartment and who do you think is going to be your neighbor in
that building? That leaves four to five unrelated college students. Along with the
survey it stated that in the paper that there was a shortage of rental uni ... excuse
me, along with the survey stated in the paper that said there was a shortage of
rental units, I wonder ... that survey was done, and I wonder if a survey was ever
done on the detrimental effects this type of housing has on our Central District
neighborhoods. What effect does the car traffic have, the foot traffic, the noise
level, the vandalism, the effect on long -term residents? I never saw anything
mentioned about that. I don't suppose that survey was ever done. This comes
down to a developer's ability to make a profit ... in the proposed zoning categories,
or the preservation of the Central District neighborhoods. It can't be both.
Everyone from hone... homeowners to developers to renters should ask
themselves, is this something I wouldn't mind living next to? That is the question
those of us living in the specified zones are asking ourselves. There can be a
healthy balance of rental and owner- occupied housing in the neighborhoods.
Limiting the number of unrelated people in certain zones of the city is not
something new. It's been done in several other cities, as we've heard tonight,
similar to Iowa City. You've been accused of being increasingly non - business. I
think it's a shame that such tactics are being used against you. You're not!
There's a legitimate concern here, and it needs to be addressed. It's time Iowa
City set the standard, not follow it. Please support the proposed zoning changes
that would limit the number of unrelated people that may reside in one unit to a
maximum of three. Iowa City needs it. Thank you!
Mims: (applause) Thank you for your comments. Anyone else who would like to
address the Council?
Baum: Jennifer Baum, 814 Dewey. (mumbled) The number of unrelated people
occupying a single apartment has an impact on the surrounding neighborhood.
These apartment buildings are built with the intention of housing short-term
occupants. They're marketed toward that particular type of student. Many have
`for rent' signs permanently affixed to the exterior of the buildings. The building
owners seem too intent not to have the ... seem too intent not to have the same
people in the same apartments for more than a year. These apartments are built to
act as non - university related dorms. Student storage, rather than residences.
Living in a dorm situation is different than living in a neighborhood. Not because
of the age of the people, but because the temporary nature of the lifestyle. Rarely
does a tenant stay more than two years, and those years are marked by a large
turnover of residents in the building each semester. This turnover has increased
as the number of people in each apartment acrea... increases. It fosters a mindset
that encourages disassociation with neighbors, and that makes it impossible to
include these residents in the feeling of community that is vital to making a
neighborhood. The hallmark of neighborhood is stability. It's not just a set of
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houses near each other. It's a way the people in those houses interact, and include
each other in their lives. Whether they own or rent. Whether they're young or
old. It's because there's stability. The whole neighborhood is stronger because of
it. In a neighborhood you recognize who lives across the street. You say hello.
You ask about their day. It makes a neighborhood out of a set of buildings. The
business community has said that they wish to "build and use the land in a
respectful manner which will enhance the property itself, and the neighborhood it
is in." In an effort to let the business community understand what the
neighborhoods think will enhance them, we're here to be as helpful as possible.
We are the neighborhoods! And living there we believe we have a clear idea of
what would enhance our lives. We're not calling for no building at all. But a
consideration of what type of building will most contribute to the health and
happiness of our neighborhoods. And by extension, to our town. We are here to
cooperate with the development community to treat each resident, owner and
renter, with respect. The needs of the city change over time, and the changes to
zoning needs in the city should be an anticipated business cost of building
apartments. It should be taken into consideration when developers buy land. And
those with intentions to develop should understand and consider before
purchasing property. They can see from the current set of buildings in the
neighborhood what sort of place they're buying into. And they should consider
what will improve and enhance the atmosphere of that particular neighborhood.
By keeping the number of unrelated people to the standard that it is in most other
places, a neighborhood has a chance to get to know and to include those renters in
the neighborhood, not just store them for two years. And that will enhance the
neighbors... neighborhoods, the town, and each individual living in each
neighborhood. Thank you.
Mims: Thank you for your comments. Anyone else who would like to address the
Council on this issue before we close the public hearing?
Myers: Hi, I'm Julie Myers, and I'm sorry I don't have prepared notes. I wasn't planning
on speaking. Uh, I wasn't sure when I came down here how I felt about the ... the
proposed change to the zoning ordinance. Um, but I ... I loved your presentation,
Karen Howard, and I wanted to ask you, are there approximately two acres in a
city block?
Mims: We're not (several talking and laughing)...
Myers: I think there are, so I'll just go forward. Somebody can figure that out. But um...
I just kind of calculated my frontage on my house on Ronald Street and just went
around the block and did math, and I thought it seemed like a block was about
two acres. So, why I came down here is I do have a concern about density and
uh, my husband and I, uh ... uh, were students for decades it seems like and so we
have a lot of sympathy for students and we have, as students, we always loved
living in a neighborhood like we still live in, which is ... I'm in the northside I
guess and uh, we've lived here about ten years and first we lived in that
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neighborhood as renters on Van Buren and then, um, bought our house about ten
years ago and uh ... have lived there since. And uh ... I was doing some math and it
seemed like this R -44 district, that's 44 units, and if there's two acres per block,
then that's 88 units and if that's five people in a unit, you come up with about 440
people on that block. That's a pretty high density, um ... and not appropriate for
very many areas, since it's people and cars. So then if you change it down to
three, which makes it like all the other neighborhoods in Iowa City, so we can all
spread out and rent everywhere, um, that's 264 people per block. That's still
fairly high. I don't see why you couldn't build an apartment building that fell
within that. Um, the R -20, which is four people ... uh ... per unit. That would be,
uh, 160, uh, people on a block and uh, if you reduce it down to three, it's 120
people. And I'll just say that I think on my block, uh, I don't know all my
neighbors, but I'd say that we probably have about 30 people on our block.
That's probably pretty light density, um, I like it. Um, but I wouldn't want, you
know, to be surrounded by a huge density. If I had a density of 120 people, okay,
but 440 people, and I know I'm just ... I'm just R -12, so I guess that's never going
to happen, but I also, you know, bike all over the place and I love my
neighborhood because of the businesses. I go downtown and eat all the time, too
much, and anyway, I, you know, walk by all kinds of residences and uh, I ... I love
my neighborhood. I ... I like the smaller apartments. I like the houses that, where
students rent, which is exactly the kind of place I gravitated to when I was a
student. I wanted to live in a house with roommates. So, those are my comments
and uh, I'm in favor of that, uh, zoning change.
Mims: Thank you for your comments.
Walker: I'm Jean Walker and I live at 335 Lucon Drive. And I've lived there for almost
40 years, and I've lived through the beginning bad time when, um, the
neighborhoods were just... riotous, the noise was terrible, and then the City
Council and the City came up with the nuisance ordinance and it calmed things
down. And it made a real difference. Um, I think that if we go back to having
these, um, buildings with all these people in them, it ... we're going to regress.
I ... I think the City has done a good job in trying to calm things down, and also
with so many people there will be increase in cars and parking, uh, throughout the
city, and I guess I resent as a neighbor someone coming in and building a... a
building with all these people in the units, and making a profit and then they go
away and we the neighbors are living in the neighborhood and we have to deal
with whatever they have left us with. We're the people who live in these
neighborhoods. I think there's, uh, more important things on the table than just
making a profit. It's the livability and quality of life in the neighborhoods, and
one thing ... people have said that there aren't enough places for students to live.
Well, the University is going to build a new dormitory that will take care of about
500 of them on the west side. So ... I think the University maybe can be a little
more helpful in, uh, finding places for the students to live. Thank you.
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Mims: Thank you for your comments. Anyone else? (laughter in audience; several
commenting)
Siders: (mumbled) Good evening, my name's Glenn Siders. I'm here this evening
representing the Greater Iowa City Area Homebuilder's Association. I do have a
couple of comments on the proposal that's in front of you this evening. First
comment relates to the, uh, proposed date that this ordinance takes effect. I
believe the proposal says February 21. I would like to encourage the Council to
consider a different date, uh, possibly make it the date that it actually gets passed
and takes a... affect instead of going back retroactive to a month ago. My second
comment would be ... that this ordinance parallels very closely another ordinance
that you're going to be seeing in the next few weeks, probably setting a public
hearing on it at your next meeting, concerning limiting the number of bedrooms.
This in fact, if... if you pass this, it in fact makes that ordinance a moot point,
because nobody's going to build a five- bedroom apartment and only allow three
roomers in it. So I would encourage the Council to defer any action on this until
they actually have an opportunity to listen to the discussion and debate of the
other ordinance that's coming before you, so you can weigh and balance both of
those ... at the same time. Thank you.
Mims: Thank you for your comments. (laughter and talking in audience)
Carlson: My name is Nancy (mumbled) ...my name is Nancy Carlson. I live at 1002 E.
Jefferson. We are here tonight to discuss the neighborhoods in the Central
District. These are neighborhoods that have provided homes for the citizens of
Iowa City for as long as there has been an Iowa City. As you get older you begin
to think about your legacy. What are you going to leave the next generation? I'm
not a rich person. I can't leave a Moen tower, but what I can leave, along with
my neighbors, is a neighborhood that the next generation can enjoy as I have and
the generations before me have. That can be my legacy to Iowa City. I think of
Mrs. Hart who purchased the home at 610 Jefferson, rehabbed it, removed the
asbestos ... and removed the asbestos siding. I think of Marybeth Slonnager, who
worked to get the Wetherby house in the 900 block of Market moved to 611 N.
Governor. These people will probably become forgotten footnotes in our history
of Iowa City. They did not do these things as a monument to themselves, but as a
small contribution to the fabric of a community. Because of their love for that
community and its history. And then I think of the destruction of the houses in
the 400 block of Jefferson from the offices of St. Mary to Gilbert Street, so that
another apartment building can be built. We in the Central District are the face of
Iowa City, that visitors to this area see. We have been proud to serve that purpose
because we are proud to be a warm and welcoming area where people of all
incomes can settle and live together. We have been the essence of vibrant,
creative, resilient neighborhoods. That has been the legacy that those before us
have handed down to us, and we want to hand down to the next generation. There
is a difference between city and community. Community connotes vision and
forward thinking. We know that without that we get lost in details and temporary
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problems and solutions. The trees and lose sight of the forest. Iowa City is proud
to be a city of vision, but actions speak louder than words. What we do
demonstrates our commitment. I believe the residents have demonstrated their
commitment. What is yours?
Mims: Thank you for your comments. (applause)
Bowers: Good evening. Sally Bowers. I live at 931 N. Summit Street and something just
occurred to me while I was standing there listening and watching everyone that,
uh, I don't see any representatives, perhaps I'm wrong, of uh, individuals who
really want to live in a four and five - bedroom apartment. And ... that's everything.
Thank you. (laughter and applause)
Mims: Thank you for your comments.
Michaud: I'm Pam Michaud. (mumbled) Um, the City has lots of initiatives. It has had
many workshops, sustainability and things like that. We have people who are in
our midst and healthcare professionals who want to promote a `blue zone.' We
have long -time Iowa Citians who want to have ... have had 30 years of historic
preservation, salvaging and recycling, and that's a sustainable green community.
We also have, um, very large developers, um, particularly downtown in the very
center, city center, who are going for a `gray zone,' with 14 -story buildings that
cast shadows on public spaces. Um, there are lots of houses I've looked in in the
last six months because of an apartment building being built behind me. I
thought, well, I can either feel powerless and victimized, or look for an exit
strategy. I love my historic district and I started it 21 years ago. When I bought
the house 22 years ago I couldn't imagine that three houses would be destroyed
with their green space, for a four -story building. In the process of looking for
other houses, I realized how many apartment buildings are sprinkled throughout
the north side. Um, there are some that I'm still interested in, and I think ... gee, I
could use some support with that. Maybe I should apply for a TIF. (laughter)
But no, I don't think I have the kind of leverage that other people do. Um... now
my house backed up to a four -story building may have lost 20% of its property
value. Not only that, but the marketability is decreased because nobody is going
to buy it that is from a small town, or a suburb. It's going to be somebody from a
big city that is comfortable living behind ... next to an apartment building, with 90
undergraduates. Um, that's a big variable, uh, those are 90 variables. I love
undergraduates. I meet them every day when I walk my dog. And, but these are
not the rowdies at 2:00 in the morning. They're... they're nice kids who
remember dogs. Um, so anyway, I am totally in favor of the ... the three- person
household, which allows for a lot of unconventional families and uh,
combinations because some of them are going to be related. So I think that's not
an impediment either. Thank you.
Mims: Thank you for your comments. Anyone else who would like to address the
Council during the public hearing?
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McLaughlin: (mumbled) My name's Mike McLaughlin. Uh, the word density may cause
anxiety to some property owners while other property owners consider density
critical to their investment. I hope to exhibit that density is critical in the solution
to resolving neighborhood stabilization and compatible multi - family
development. The University of Iowa, which is uniquely mixed throughout
downtown Iowa City, compared to other university campuses, has not constructed
student housing for over 40 years. As a result, the Iowa City community has been
responsible for housing the ever - growing University student body. The
University has plans to construct a far -west side dorm in the next few years. I've
heard discussions of another west -side dorm, uh, possibly in the quadrangle area;
however, have not read this in any pub... publication as of yet. While our dorm -
style housing may look to be a solution to strain downtown neighborhoods, this
may take years if not decades to accomplish. We can only estimate what
University enrollment might be at that time, particularly with the perpetual
medical campus expansion, the new public health building, and approximately
$400 million in fine arts construction. While dorm -style housing may be an
opportunity for private investors, the reaction locally is of hesitation. The
University has balked at building dormitories; therefore, does that raise concern
for private investors. In addition, the use of such a structure is not
interchangeable to other types of housing. Critical to the success of such housing
would be location. Areas of consideration might be south of Burlington Street,
uh, or north of downtown along the east side of Clinton Street. However, the
University owns property in all of these areas, so does that lead us to conclude
that the most likely builder would be the University? With limited ability to
influence the timetable of dorm -style construction, there is a need to provide
additional solutions to neighborhood stabilization. There exists a sizable area
bordered by the west side of Dodge Street, south along the railroad, the east side
of Gilbert Street, and north along the Burlington Street corridor that was designed
years ago to house a large population of tenants. There is 100% rental. The area
would ... would be negatively affected by this proposed amendment as well as the
other two proposals yet to be considered. If development were encouraged this
area would help draw tenants away from Governor Street and Summit Street.
Understanding that the pressure to legislate is strong, I would recommend not
reducing the non - related occupancy below four tenants allowing more building
height, lot coverage, and not changing the square footage requirement per unit, so
that the incentive exists for redevelopment. Contemporary, attractive buildings
will upgrade the area, draw tenants to the area, and buffer the neighborhoods...
that are ... that are under current strain. By low ... by allowing four - bedroom units,
this will attract tenants away from single - family homes that were converted to
four... four- bedroom rental houses. Through this process, it is necessary to look at
other favorable areas that provide similar characteristics to draw large populations
of tenants to and help buffer the neighborhoods. Like... likewise, pocket areas of
high- density zones need to be re- evaluated and zon ... zoned accordingly to avoid
strain on nearby res ... permanent residents. Given the low interest rates, high
demand, low sup ... low supply and high rents of the cur ... current local market,
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there is incentive for parents of University students to purchase investment homes
in downtown neighborhoods. The less density permitted in the designed rental
zones limits the supply and makes the trend of student rental houses more likely.
Absent a plan with more than one option, I believe it is premature to initiative
legislation, particularly since the legislation proposed may have a negative effect
on already strained neighborhoods. Thank you.
Mims: Thank you for your comments. Anyone else who would like to address the
Council? Okay.
Clausen: I'm Darlene Clausen, um, from 508 E. Bloomington Street. My residence in a
CO -1. It has been since we purchased it in 1984. Uh, however, since 1984, three
houses have gone down in the two blocks that I live along. Partly for parking lots
and for clinics and other things because the area is kind of crowded. Urn ... I feel
like I am a buffer. I am right on the edge of the rest of the residential area of the
northside. If that little strip is allowed to become any more dense, it would take
away the whole quality of the neighborhood that I bought it for. I bought it
because I work for the University. I can easily walk to work. I like the feel of the
neighborhood. It's very walkable. If it becomes more dense as more buildings go
down, it'd lose all that. So I encourage you to vote for this ordinance, and set the
limit at three people, three unrelated people in a unit.
Mims: Thank you for your comments.
Knight: (mumbled) Hi, my name's Roger Knight. Urn ... couple things I think you guys
should think of is no ... downtown, how many times do you see 20, 30 students in
one spot, and then you want ... have more of these tenant -only buildings come up?
For students? Well, where's it end? Okay, so we're thinking about making it
only three tenants per apartment. So, what are we going to do next? Have 50-
story buildings of just apartments? We need to do something more than just three
tenants per apartment. We need to do a lot more. For example, I know this may
not be quite in this, uh, area, but ... there's talks about, um, I think it's Moen.
Might have his name wrong. Bought the building that has, uh, Wells Fargo in it
right now. And he wants to make another 14 -story building. Okay. But think
about this. The ped mall is full. Full! And it's not businesses. It's bars, and we
need to get back to where it once was. You know, clothing stores. How nice
would it be to go downtown and buy a hat! Can't do that right now! We need to
do more to ... get back to old Iowa City. Not try to compete with New York City.
This is Iowa. You know, we have cornfields here. Like it! We need to do what
we can from here on out. Because if we don't, we're going to be going into an
area of New York. Where you can get mugged for just looking at somebody
wrong. Or rape. How lovely would that be to see a rape going on on the
sidewalks? I don't know about you, but I don't ... think that would be something
beautiful to see. No, the cop ... how many police are on a shift right now? I
don't...
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Mims: Sir, can I ask you to ... when we do a public hearing like this to keep your
comments to the agenda item which is the zoning ordinance and the occupancy.
Knight: Well I was getting to is I think we need to ... this is a good start! To lower the
number of people per apartment building, and stop with the five- bedrooms, six
bedrooms, seven bedrooms downtown. And that's where I was going with that,
so ... sorry about that. (both talking)
Mims: That's all right!
Knight: Thank you and have a good night.
Mims: All right, thank you for your comments! Okay, I'll go ahead and close the public
hearing, uh, I think we've been going at this for a while and it looks like it's
slowed down. (bangs gavel) Close the public hearing. Uh, open it up for
Council discussion.
2. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Champion: Well I want to thank all of you for coming tonight. It's very important that you be
here. I'm not against people making a profit, by the way. Somebody said they
make a profit. Well, nobody's going to build something they're not going to
make a profit. I'm not against profit. I'm not against student housing. I mean, I
have eight kids. They have eight students that were living in many different
places in the country, um, but I am about neighborhoods, and I think it's
imperative that we provide housing for whether it's students or young
professionals or families or whatever it is, that we provide rental property that is
pleasurable to live in. I'm not against mixed neighborhoods. I grew up in a
mixed neighborhood. That's why I live where I do in Iowa City, cause I like
mixed neighborhoods. But it's very important that we can convince people that
this is one of those rare decisions that we make as a Council, and I mean rare.
I've been on this Council forever. I think I've made probably four decisions that
are really going to influence Iowa City for the better in 50 years, and this is one of
them. This is a very important decision for this Council to make. So I appreciate
all of you coming. Don't let up on the pressure! Please come back. Thank you!
Mims: Before we continue, I apologize. We kind of had this discussion earlier and
Eleanor just reminded me. Um, yeah, we were going to actually defer this
because one of the things that happens with an ordinance like this is staff needs
the opportunity to tabulate, um ... help me out, protest petitions, is that how it...
Dilkes: Tabulate the protest petitions, right.
Mims: Tabulate the protest petitions, because that impacts whether we need a super
majority to in fact pass the ordinance. So ... I would entertain what we had
discussed was having our Council discussion then at the next meeting, and I kind
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of forgot that, so I apol... (several talking). No, I apologize. I asked for
comment. So I would entertain a motion, um...
Karr: Before we do that can I have a motion to accept correspondence?
Throgmorton: So moved.
Dickens: Second.
Mims: Moved by Throgmorton, seconded by Dickens. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed?
Throgmorton: Susan...
Mims: 6 -0. Okay.
Throgmorton: ... but you did close the public hearing, correct?
Mims: Yes. I did close the public hearing. So ... the ... close the public hearing ends the
time at which the protest petitions can be accepted, is my understanding, okay?
So at this time I would accept a motion to defer, uh, consideration of this to our
meeting on April P
Payne: Motion to defer to April 3`d
Dickens: Second.
Champion: Second.
Mims: Moved by Payne, seconded by Dickens. Do we need a roll call on this, Eleanor?
Throgmorton: Well ... some discussion?
Mims: Discussion?
Throgmorton: Uh, would this be an appropriate moment to ask some questions, not ... not to
express our views, but ask questions?
Mims: I would probably encourage that we just wait and do that all at once on the 3`a
Dilkes: I think that's appropriate. It's not really germane to the motion to defer.
Mims: Okay. All those in ... is it roll call or voice?
Dobyns: Sorry, I had a question in terms of...a restriction in terms of, like a moratorium or
anything like that. Is that ... uh, active at this point with what we're doing?
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Dilkes: The moratorium period is 60 days. If you defer the first consideration and you,
um, then do two subsequent considerations at different meetings, you will be
beyond the 60 -day moratorium. Um, I ... have had discussions about that with
staff. They do not, with Planning staff, they do not see that as a problem, but you
certainly could ask that question.
Markus: Isn't the moratorium in place?
Dilkes: Moratorium is in place, but only for 60 days from the point that we set the public
hearing (both talking) and that extends to I believe about mid -April. Um, so your
third reading, if you do, um, at subsequent... two more subsequent meetings, will
take you beyond that date. So the ... the moratorium will expire.
Payne: So what is the effect of that expiration?
Dilkes: Bob, do you want to address that? We've had that conversation.
Miklo: There, uh, may be a window between the time the moratorium expires and the
ordinance, if it's adopted, is actually adopted, uh, that may be a couple of weeks.
It's highly unlikely that a project could get a building permit in that time.
Dobyns: Okay. All right.
Mims: Any other questions about deferring this? Okay. Roll call or voice?
Dilkes: Just voice.
Mims: All those in favor of deferring say aye. Opposed? Passes 6 -0. Thank you.
(mumbled)
Throgmorton: Could we take a break?
Mims: Pardon?
Throgmorton: Could we take a short break?
Mims: Okay. We'll take about a seven - minute break. (mumbled)
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ITEM 5. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
f. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE REZONING 1.25 ACRES OF LAND
LOCATED AT 108 MCLEAN STREET FROM NEIGHBORHOOD
STABILIZATION RESIDENTIAL (RNS -20) ZONE TO PLANNED
DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY / NEIGHBORHOOD
STABILIZATION RESIDENTIAL (OPD/RNS -20) ZONE (REZ12-
00002). (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
Dobyns: Move second consideration.
Champion: No, I move...
Karr: Yes!
Mims: The applicant...
Dobyns: Okay, holding!
Mims: (laughter) Holding!
Champion: I move that the rule requiring that ordinances must be considered and voted on for
passage at two Council meetings prior to the meeting at which it is to be finally
passed by suspended, that the second consideration and vote be waived, and that
the ordinance be voted on for final passage at this time.
Throgmorton: Second.
Dobyns: Second.
Mims: Moved to condense by Champion, seconded by Throgmorton. Roll call.
Champion: I move that the ordinance be finally adopted at this time.
Dickens: Second.
Mims: Moved by Champion, seconded by Dickens. We need to ... ex parte, any, uh, ex
parte conversations since our last consideration? (several responding) None?
Okay. Roll call, please. Passes 6 -0.
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
Dickens: So moved.
Payne: Second.
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Mims: Moved by Dickens, uh, seconded by Payne. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed? Passes 6 -0.
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ITEM 6. APPROVING PROCEEDING WITH THE ISSUANCE AND SALE OF
NOT TO EXCEED $5,376,250 AGGREGATE PRINCIPAL AMOUNT OF
MIDWESTERN DISASTER AREA REVENUE BONDS (IOWA CANCER CURE
PROJECT) SERIES 2012, OF THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, IOWA, AND RELATED
MATTERS.
a. PUBLIC HEARING
Mims: Again, this is not an indebtedness of the City. It's a State and federal program
that allows, uh, businesses to borrow via the City. Uh, public hearing (bangs
gavel) is open. Public hearing is closed. (bangs gavel)
b. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION
Champion: Move the resolution.
Dobyns: Second.
Mims: Moved by Champion, seconded by Dobyns.
Throgmorton: I'd like to say one word about this, um, I don't really understand why this form of
financing is available for this kind of project, even though I understand it's
completely legal and I understand it has to do with disaster assistance and that
kind of thing, but it seems to me a pretty weird, uh, application of disaster
funding. Nonetheless, I'll support it. (laughter)
Champion: If you had cancer you'd consider it a disaster! (laughter)
Throgmorton: Yeah, right, but it's... different.
Mims: Okay. Roll call, please.
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ITEM 7. AMENDING TITLE 3, ENTITLED "FINANCES, TAXATION & FEES,"
CHAPTER 4, "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES, CHARGES, BONDS,
FINES, AND PENALTIES," SECTION 6, " STORMWATER UTILITY
FEE" AND AMENDING TITLE 16 ENTITLED "PUBLIC WORKS,"
CHAPTER 3, "CITY UTILITIES," ARTICLE G, "STORM WATER
COLLECTION, DISCHARGE AND RUNOFF," SECTION 10(F)(3) TO
CHANGE THE RATE OF THE STORMWATER UTILITY FEE.
a. PUBLIC HEARING
Mims: This is a public hearing. (bangs gavel) Public hearing is open. (bangs gavel)
Public hearing is closed.
b. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Payne: Move resolution.
Throgmorton: Move first consideration.
Payne: Yes, thank you for the correction!
Throgmorton: I'll second that correction.
Mims: Okay. Moved by Payne, seconded by Throgmorton. This is, uh, just a
continuation of the adjustments in the stormwater management fees that we
started about a year ago. Any further discussion by Council? Roll call, please.
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ITEM 9. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 3, FINANCES
TAXATION AND FEES, CHAPTER 4, SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES,
CHARGES, BONDS, FINES AND PENALTIES, SECTION 7, PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION TO AMEND FEES. (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
Champion: Move second consideration.
Payne: Second.
Mims: Moved by Champion, seconded by Payne. Roll call, please.
Throgmorton: Could ... could, yeah, um, I just wanted to note, uh, for anybody who's watching
TV and all that that uh, that for all these passes that provide discounted, uh, travel,
uh, and they're well worth taking advantage of and I would encourage people
with disabilities or students or elderly persons, uh, young people and so on to take
advantage of the passes.
Mims: Thank you. Roll call, please. Passes 6 -0.
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ITEM 12. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION CHANGING THE NAME OF THE
RIVERFRONT CROSSINGS URBAN RENEWAL PLAN AND URBAN
RENEWAL AREA TO THE RIVERSIDE DRIVE URBAN RENEWAL
PLAN AND URBAN RENEWAL AREA.
Mims: Uh, just for clarification for people watching, uh, when we started with this, uh,
we had an area that we were going to use, and has basically been separated, and
so to make it clear to people, the area on the west side of the river, um, is
essentially being renamed to the Riverside Drive urban renewal area.
Payne: Move resolution.
Dobyns: Second.
Mims: Moved by Payne, seconded by Dobyns. Any comments? Roll call, please.
Passes 6 -0.
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ITEM 13. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE PROVIDING THAT GENERAL
PROPERTY TAXES LEVIED AND COLLECTED EACH YEAR ON ALL
PROPERTY LOCATED WITHIN THE RIVERFRONT CROSSINGS
URBAN RENEWAL AREA N/K/A RIVERSIDE DRIVE URBAN
RENEWAL AREA, IN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, COUNTY OF
JOHNSON, STATE OF IOWA, BY AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE
STATE OF IOWA, CITY OF IOWA CITY, COUNTY OF JOHNSON,
IOWA CITY COMMUNITY SCHOOL DISTRICT AND OTHER TAXING
DISTRICTS, BE PAID TO A SPECIAL FUND FOR PAYMENT OF
PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST ON LOANS, REBATES, GRANTS,
MONIES ADVANCED TO AND INDEBTEDNESS, INCLUDING BONDS
ISSUED OR TO BE ISSUED, INCURRED BY SAID CITY IN
CONNECTION WITH THE RIVERFRONT CROSSINGS URBAN
RENEWAL PLAN N/K/A RIVERSIDE DRIVE URBAN RENEWAL PLAN.
(PASS AND ADOPT)
Payne: Move adoption.
Dickens: Second.
Mims: Moved by Payne, second by Dickens.
Throgmorton: I ... I just wanted to repeat that I'm going to vote no on this, but because I think it,
uh, the creation of a ... of a urban renewal district for this kind of purpose ought to
have a sunset provision on it, in it. It ought to expire within about 20 years. If
... if our action succeeds, there won't be a need to do it, so it really should not be
created for an indefinite period of time. But ... I won't elaborate. Talked about it
last time.
Mims: Yeah, and I would just further comment that ... that I support it from the standpoint
that what we have always done in Iowa City is done our actual TIF agreements
that are project -by- project, which do have end dates associated with those. So
while the area itself doesn't, the actual projects themselves have so I ... I'm very
easily able to support this. Roll call, please. Passes 5 -1, Throgmorton in the
negative.
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ITEM 15. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE DEDICATION OF
OUTLOT B TO THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AS PLATTED IN
MACKINAW VILLAGE, PART TWO, IOWA CITY, IOWA.
Dickens: Move the consideration.
Throgmorton: Second.
Mims: Moved by Dickens, seconded by Throgmorton. Discussion?
Throgmorton: Susan, do I understand correctly that this, uh, that Mackinaw Village, the owners
of it are, uh, offering to dedicate 25, approximately 25 acres, along the river? Uh,
to the City for public purpose, is right? That's... that's quite a generous offer, it
seems to me, but I don't know if we currently have plans for how to use that
and ... at some point in the future I'd certainly like to hear about that.
Mims: Uh -huh, yep.
Markus: The, uh, intent is for recreational purposes, including a trail. Um, there's also
discussion about the potential for some utility development, uh, public utility
development on the property, i.e., a well. So, this is a very generous offer on the
part of the, uh, developer, and I think maybe you want to indicate an
acknowledgement of thanking them for the dedication, or the donation, as well.
Throgmorton: I agree!
Mims: Right. Great, this is a very generous donation and uh, hopefully we'll have some
very good public use for it as time goes on. Roll call, please.
Karr: I'm sorry, do we have a motion to put it on the floor? Could we have a (several
talking)
Mims: Okay, I thought there had been too. I'm sorry.
Payne: I thought we did too! (several talking)
Dickens: I did!
Karr: Moved by Dickens, second (several talking and laughing) by Dickens...
Mims: Yeah, I think it was moved by Dickens... we'll call it second by Champion. Close
enough!
Champion: I don't care!
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Mims: I thought we did (laughter). I thought we did! I'm sorry! (several talking and
laughing) Okay, roll call, please. (several talking and laughing) Okay!
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ITEM 16. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION OF
PROPERTY LOCALLY KNOWN AS 2538 NEVADA AVENUE, WHICH
IS A PUBLIC NUISANCE, FOR THE PURPOSE OF ABATING THE
NUISANCE.
Champion: Move the resolution.
Dobyns: Second.
Mims: Moved by Champion, seconded by Dobyns. Discussion? Uh... Eleanor, would
you like to address this since we had a letter this afternoon.
Dilkes: Right, you have a letter in your packet from ... um, or that you got late this
afternoon from the Skinner Law Office representing the property owner. Um,
essentially requesting a ... a deferral in the resolution to give them three to six
months to sell, um, the property, before our process would start. I can give you
kind of my...
Mims: Yeah, would you... (several talking)
Dilkes: Um, what the resolution does is it starts the process, um, that we have to go
through, um, under State law in order to, uh, condemn a property. Um, there's a
required period of time where we must negotiate in good faith in order to acquire
it voluntarily. Um, and we have to obtain an appraisal. Um, have to offer fair
market value as determined by the appraisal, etc. So we start with that process
and then secondly what the resolution does is it authorizes ... if we are unable to,
um, accomplish the acquisition voluntarily, it allows us to initiate the
condemnation process, which ... if...if everything takes as long as it ... as it has to
take, um, is a six -month period ... can be shorter but ... but six month, actually six
month is ... months is about the fastest we can do it.
Dickens: So if we (both talking) if we start this ... and they end up cleaning up the property,
then do we stop the action or...
Champion: Well they can sell it!
Dilkes: Well, if you pass the resolution, Court ... the staff will proceed along those lines.
Um, getting an appraisal, making an offer to acquire it. If we can't do that, then
we, um, will start the condemnation process. What our practice is is to notify you
when we start the condemnation process. Um ... because you've already
authorized it. If you chose to defer this resolution, um, and grant the request by
Mr. Skinner, then we wouldn't ... we would not do that, um, we could ... I mean,
we could engage in ... uh ... informal conversations about acquisition, or even
perhaps formal, but it wouldn't necessarily... it wouldn't necessarily be what we
have to do for the condemnation process.
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Champion: Well, I'm going to continue to support our original decision, because it doesn't
prevent them from negotiating with the City for market value. And it ... but if we
vote down our decision, it could prolong this whole thing again... for another six
months or a year.
Mims: Well, and that's the position I come from too, Connie, is the letter from the
attorney indicated their intent to try to sell the property. And, under this
procedure as Eleanor has just explained it, for us to do that we have to get an
appraisal and offer fair market value. So if in fact the owner does want to sell the
property, um, you know, the City could possibly be their best buyer.
Throgmorton: I'd like to take off on that, uh, would ... if we pass the resolution tonight, uh, and if
the owner wanted to try to sell it to someone else, would the owner still be able to
pursue that possibility, until the moment comes when our condemnation
procedure... takes effect?
Dilkes: Yes!
Throgmorton: So we're not inhibiting the owner's ability to sell, whoever the owners... whoever
the owner is, I ... I don't know whether to say his or her, so the owner's property,
we're not inhibiting the owners...
Dilkes: No, and I think ... I think what would happen then, if a ... if a sale was made to, um,
to a buyer that staff was assured would remedy the nuisance, then there would be
no need to acquire it. Um ... to ... to eliminate the nuisance. And ... and I assume
we would come back to you and let you know that.
Dickens: But by accepting it we set a six -month basically.
Dilkes: I think you do delay the process by, um, deferring the resolution.
Mims: Any further comments? Okay. Roll call, please.
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ITEM 17a. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER
AND MAYOR TO ACQUIRE AND REHABILITATE HOMES FOR THE
UNIVERCITY NEIGHBORHOOD PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM.
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
Throgmorton: So moved.
Payne: Second.
Mims: Moved by Throgmorton, seconded by Payne. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed? Passes 6 -0. Okay. (reads Item 17)
Dobyns: So moved.
Payne: Second.
Mims: Moved by Dobyns, seconded by Payne. This is a great continuation, albeit at a
smaller scale of the, uh, UniverCity program in terms of re ... uh, purchasing rental
housing and rehabilitating those, um, and getting those back on the market for, uh,
income - eligible people. Roll call, please.
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ITEM 17b. APPEAL OF DENIAL OF APPLICATION FOR PERMIT TO OPERATE
A MOBILE VENDING UNIT ON CITY PLAZA OR IOWA AVENUE.
a) CONDUCT HEARING
Mims: Adam, I believe you're going to...
Bentley: Yes. (both talking) Adam Bentley with the City Manager's office. Um, just to
give you a little background, uh, from mobile vending. Mobile vending... mobile
vendors are cart-based food service, uh, businesses in downtown Iowa City. You
may know Marco's or George's. Um, the City Manager's office administers and
enforces those many ... those mobile vending permits, uh, that occur on the
pedestrian mall. Uh, every year we, well, uh ... the City Manager's office
processes these applications and uh, we score them, um ... we give them a
numerical score, and we ... we get together every year with a committee of...of
staff members who are stakeholders for ... for downtown. So we have Park and
Rec, Inspections, and the City Manager's office. This year... and they're
weighted, their scores are weighted based on, um, their experience with the City,
the number of citations that they have ... for that year, and uh ... the uh,
maintenance and ... and appea ... the appearance of the cart. This ... this process is
governed by a set of administrative rules set by the City Manager's office, which
is established through ordinance. Uh, for vending season 2012, there were eight
applications submitted. All gra... graders were given copies of the applications
and were asked to score each application. The City Manager's office then
tabulates the totals and averages them to generate a score that is used to determine
which carts will be granted a permit. The maximum score achievable is 40 and
I've provided a list of the, uh, carts that, uh, were submitted and then graded. So,
uh, we only have six permits available, so the top six, uh, vendors that you see
there on that list were, uh, awarded the ... awarded the permit. From January 31St
the City Manager's office has 60 days to notify the applicants of the final
decision. The City sent approval and denial letters... letters on March 13th. Um,
although the initial letter did not include an explanation of the scoring tool, or the
reasons for denial, staff has subsequently provided that information, uh, to Mr.
Brown who's appealing the City Manager's decision. Uh, attached to this memo
are email exchanges between staff from the City Manager's office and Mr.
Brown, and uh, the March 13th denial letter. Urn ... applicants have the right to
appeal the decision of the City Manager's office to you. Uh, I can address any
questions, uh, to the best of my abilities to the appeal, um, at least, uh, for certain,
uh, since I've been hired (laughter) um but... but staff, um, I... I may defer to
Eleanor for some history and any kind of legal questions that may ... may arise,
so ... and I'm not sure if the applicant gets to appeal, gets to speak, or not so...
Mims: Okay.
Throgmorton: I would think so.
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Mims: Um, I have a question, and that is just a little bit of the history is ... we've kind of
changed, and maybe, Eleanor, maybe you're the best one to address this. I was
looking through some of this, in terms of...the way we have changed the number
of permits over the years, but I mean ... we have done that all, you know, in a
formal manner in which ... what we have on the books now is allowing for six
vendors.
Dilkes: That's correct.
Mims: Okay. So the fact that at other times it's been seven or eight has no relevance to
where we are today?
Dilkes: Correct.
Mims: Okay, thank you.
Payne: So ... this applicant is a new applicant?
Bentley: Correct, yep!
Payne: So ... part of the ... scoring process is previous experience.
Bentley: Uh -huh.
Payne: So how, I mean ... if that's a ... tenth of the score basically...
Bentley: Uh -huh.
Payne: ...then, I mean, how ... how do they get anything for previous experience if they
have none? I mean, obviously they're going to have a low score if they get a zero
out of ten points.
Bentley: But ... there's two things, there's two ... we have administrative guidelines that are
set by the City Council, and uh, by ordinance through the City Manager, um, and
those administrative regulations include two things. It includes past prior
experience, um, and it includes uh ... or, it includes maintenance and appearance of
the cart. And beyond that we have the ability to expand that, but those two things
have to be involved. The other part is ... is in the administrative regulations.
Applicants are given permits based on seniority. And so, um, to ... and that's not it
though, but they're also based on citations and... and um, and cart maintenance
and appearance of cart. So... seniority plays a role in it. Past experience is
required by our administrative regulations. So it is a larger ... it is weighted ... it
certainly is weighted heavier than ... than, um, the other portions that are scored.
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Markus: And, Adam, would you say that's... that's in recognition of the fact that
individuals make a significant investment in the facility that they provide in the
ped mall, and therefore there was some recognition of that as ... the prior
experience, um, knowing that they made that investment and it would be difficult
for someone to make an investment only to have that permit changed, or uh,
removed a subsequent year.
Bentley: That's accurate, and then, um ... not only ... not only that point but the, um... gosh,
I'm thinking... trying to think about it right now, um ... the ... the cart owners
downtown, um, that we currently have down there pay their rent on time, um, they
don't have citations, they don't ... they clean up their messes, they've had good
operating experiences with the City, and so not only is it the fact that they've
invested, they've already invested capital into those carts, but it's also that
they're... they're good tenants. And, they pay the bills that we have for them.
They pay their electric bills and um ... so that's... that's part of it, as well.
Mims: So essentially, to me we're looking at a situation where we have people who have
done this, who have invested in their carts, and their performance has been...
anywhere from good to exceptional, if you will, and ... we don't want to, with
what's been put in place administratively., we basically don't want to kick them
out after them having made the investment and follow through by doing a good
job with their business model, and so, yes ... I would agree with what you're
saying, Michelle. It does then make it very difficult for a new vendor to come in,
provided that our previous vendors have done a good job.
Payne: And it's ... it's also discouraging ... competition. I mean, we're saying we're going
to have six, and I mean, obviously that's already set up, but we're saying we're
going to have six and basically if you're not one of the six, you're never going to
be one of the six.
Mims: Until one of these goes out of business.
Payne: Right (both talking)
Dilkes: Let ... let me just say for purposes of this appeal, what you might ... how you might
write the administrative regulations or the code are ... are pretty irrelevant. If you
want to schedule that for a work session discussion you can do that, but right now
the administrative rules say seniority... it's based on seniority, assuming I think
...I think Susan put it very well, assuming you have done a good job and can meet
the other criteria.
Payne: I guess I was just trying to understand how (both talking)
Dilkes: No, I understand, I just...
Payne: Yeah.
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Dilkes: I think we need to...
Mims: Any other questions then or comments particular then to this situation? (several
talking) Okay, thank you, Adam. Mr. Brown?
Brown: Yes I am! (away from mic)
Mims: Welcome to come forward and address the Council.
Brown: (away from mic) Okay. First question I'd like to address is the ... the issue of
previous experience. Adam Bentley provided me with this spreadsheet. I don't
know if you had it, but it has the, uh, scores that were given by four people, and
for me, for previous experience, one person gave me ten points, the other three
gave me zero. Okay? Now, there was one other new applicant, AJ's, who also
got one person gave him ten and three other people gave him zero. Now, if I was
even to get ten from the other three people who gave me, uh, zero, well then my
score would have been 29 and I would have been higher than, um ... uh, Corn
Rock. I would have beat him out had I been given that credit. That wasn't given
to me. So why would one person give me ten points for previous experience, but
the other three give me zero?
Mims: I would ... I mean I don't ... I haven't read the administrative guidelines, but I
would assume from what I understand that those tens probably should not have
been given if they haven't had a cart on the ped mall. Is that ... the way you would
look at it, I mean...
Dilkes: Adam, do you have any sense of why that ten, I mean, it could have ... it could
have been a mistake. I ... I don't know.
Bentley: Yeah, well and... and the scoring tool could have gone anywhere from zero to ten,
so they could have chosen up to ten even if they had no previous experience. So,
um, in this particular case, um, one committee member gave them ten, and the
other two ... other three gave them zero.
Markus: And the question is, was there any conversation about that subsequent to the
scoring to indicate why that person rated in that fashion?
Bentley: We ... we gave out the scoring cards to staff, and then we ... we um, we tabulated
those scores and then averaged them out... essentially.
Markus: There was no conversation (both talking) as to why they scored that way.
Bentley: No, no.
Markus: That's the answer.
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Mims: Okay, thank you.
Brown: So, from what he just said that doesn't appear to be a mistake. I think one person
had the sense enough to give me ten points since I was a new cart, and the other
three didn't.
Throgmorton: I ... I'd just like to say as a... as a person being asked to, uh, review an appeal, that
I don't feel like I've had a chance to read the material and think about it any, as
sufficiently to be confident in making a decision about an appeal, cause we
received this...
Dilkes: Well, there's a reason for that, and that ... and that is because the ordinance says
that if a timely appeal is filed it must be heard at the next regular meeting of the
City Council, assuming that we can give the required notice. The, uh, the appeal
came in I believe yesterday, mid -day or so, um, which allowed us to give the 24-
hours notice so the code required us to have it tonight. Um, you know, you could
defer it, but I would not do that unless you have the ascent of the appellant.
Brown: (away from mic) ... I would also like to say that Hillary's Bar -b -Que has three
locations in Illinois and Wisconsin, two in North Chicago, or one in North
Chicago and one in Waukegan, Illinois, and one in Kenosha, Wisconsin. They've
been operating these, uh, bar -b -que businesses for over 30 years, since 1980.
They want a franchise to Iowa City, and I'm going to be the franchisee. Um,
they've ran carts up in, uh, Lake, Cook, Kenosha counties for 30 years. They go
to places like, uh, Six Flags Great America, um, the county fair, Lake County
Fair, fairgrounds, places like that with mobile vending carts. They've done it for
30 years. I submitted with the application the prior three years of, uh, temporary
use permits is what they call `em there. Uh, three years worth of, uh, temporary
use permits with the application, uh, and so that's the history behind the cart we
want to bring, and we won't have a charcoal grill. It'll be a fast Eddie's 700, uh,
which uses wood pellets to smoke bar -b -que. It's a real simple process. It's a
green process, uh, no charcoal, lighter fluid, anything like that. That's what our
cart is. We can beat out all six of the people you got down there, and we just
want an opportunity to do so. Thank you.
Throgmorton: Did I hear you correctly, uh, to say that you would not object to a motion to
defer?
Brown: I would. (away from mic)
Mims: He would object.
Throgmorton: But that means we have to vote tonight.
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Mims: Right. (several talking) Okay, further comments? You know, I wish we had
unlimited space, I mean for good qualified applicants, um, I love good bar -b -que
food, love good bar -b -que food, um, but unfortunately we have a limited number
of spots. We have an administrative process to go through to make those
decisions. It certainly appears to me that the administration has followed that
process, um, and for that reason I, uh, I have to support the administration's
decision to deny the permit.
b) CONSIDER A MOTION (TO AFFIRM, REVERSE, OR MODIFY
THE CITY MANAGER'S DECISION)
Dobyns: I move to deny the appeal.
Champion: Second.
Mims: Any further discussion?
Champion: Yeah, it's too bad but we don't ... we don't have unlimited space.
Throgmorton: Again I feel like, uh, I'm acting in ignorance here. What are the spatial
boundaries to which this applies ... is this just the ped mall?
Champion: Yes.
Throgmorton: Could... could such a vendor operate in other parts of the city?
Brown: That was the other thing, so part of the reason I listed the history of the permitting
process for the vending carts is because basically what they've done is they've
removed the locations from Iowa Avenue. Prior to this last amendment last year,
people were able to go to Iowa Avenue, start there and then move to the City
Plaza. You can't do that anymore. So that's why I listed all the history for this,
uh, amendment, uh, because that's what it effectively does — it eliminates the
Iowa Avenue locations, and if you look at the applica ... the appeal, you will see
that one of the compromises I made was to move to Iowa Avenue.
Dilkes: The problem is that would require an ordinance change.
Mims: Yeah, and that's why I asked the question of our attorney at the very beginning in
terms of the history that was here and where we are right now, and so we have to
act on this appeal tonight based on what's in place right now. Um, to go back and
look at the Iowa Avenue location would require more time, more work, and... and
looking at that change, so right now we do have a motion on the floor to, uh, deny
the appeal. Any further discussion? All those...
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Dilkes: Can I just clarify one thing? The current situation is that there can be six total, no
more than six, up to two maybe on Iowa Avenue, but we've got the six total on
the ped mall.
Mims: Right. Okay.
Brown: And there are no locations, uh, being used on Iowa Avenue currently, right?
Dilkes: Correct.
Mims: Correct.
Brown: And Iowa Avenue is the least congested part of the ped mall, correct? Which is
why no one wants to be on Iowa Avenue...
Mims: Yeah, Iowa Avenue's not part of the ped mall and... and basically what I'm trying
to ... make clear is that under what ... under the rules that we have in place right
now, okay, what we have is a maximum of six. Forget location for a minute, we
have a maximum of six.
Brown: Correct.
Mims: And so, you know, the administrative rules have been followed, in my opinion, in
terms of going through the grading and so based on that process...
Brown: Even though I got three zeros and one ten?
Mims: Well...
Brown: Which would beat ... which would mean I would have beat the lowest, uh, scoring
person, even the way the rules are set now?
Mims: Well, but what I'm saying is we can't go back now and start questioning what
individual scorers did. We have to...
Brown: I thought that's what the appeals process was for!
Mims: I wouldn't say that that's our appeals process to go back and ... if we're going to
do that we'd have to look (both talking)
Brown: There's always Johnson County District Court, so...
Dilkes: That's right.
Brown: There ya go!
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Mims: That, right, that is an option.
Champion: (mumbled) stop discussing this.
Dobyns: I acknowledge what you're saying. I think we need to vote.
Mims: Okay, all right. Roll call.
Karr: Motion.
Mims: Motion! All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Okay, 5 -1.
Karr: 5 -1?
Mims: Throgmorton in the negative.
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ITEM 18. ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES.
g. Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO- formerly JCCOG) Community
Climate Action Taskforce (formerly Cool Cities Taskforce) — One At-
Large/Public vacancy to fill a one -year term, effective upon appointment,
ending March 2013. (Term expires for Thomas Carsner).
Mims: One at -large public vacancy to fill a one -year term, um, for the Climate Action
... Community Climate Action Taskforce, formerly the Cool Cities Taskforce.
Applications must be received by 5:00 Wednesday April l ltn
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ITEM 18. ANNOUNCEMENT OF VACANCIES.
h. Police Citizens Review Board
Karr: And then we have one addition, as well. That was on your addition sheet. A new
one. Police Citizens Review Board. (several talking) One vacancy to fill an
unexpired term.
Mims: Oh, yes, thank you, okay, on here. Uh, application, uh, Police Citizens Review
Board. An application must be received by 5:00 P.M. Wednesday April 25th
Throgmorton: I ... I'd like to suggest that, uh, it...it would be worthwhile to informally, uh,
discuss with the person who resigned why he resigned.
Mims: I don't know that we ever do that with any of our boards and commissions.
Throgmorton: Well, I'm reading between the lines. And ... and I think it's worth having a
conversation.
Mims: I don't ... I guess I'll defer to legal. I don't see that necessarily as a function of the
Council, do you?
Dilkes: I...
Throgmorton: I... I didn't mean to suggest that it's necessarily a function of the Council, but
we ... we could, um, instruct the staff to have that kind of conversation.
Dilkes: Well, I ... I do see a problem with that in that that is because the PCRB is set up as
an independent board, independent from staff, and so I don't think that would be a
conversation that staff would... should have.
Markus: The appointing authority is the City Council.
Dilkes: Right. I... if... if Members of the Council wanted to have that conversation
individually or if the Council chose to have that conversation as a group, I think
you could do that.
Dobyns: I think like the City staff, if there's a complaint that, uh, is relevant to City staff,
they will call, they will actually, um, send a letter to the, uh, concerned individual
and we'll see that letter, but that's cause it's relevant to City staff, um, the only
thing I can think of is if any of the seven of us so choose, we could have a
conversation and ... you know, communicate that to the rest of the Council, um, I
guess we're always free to do that. Is that ... I mean...
Dilkes: Yes.
Dobyns: If we so choose.
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Dilkes: Sure.
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ITEM 21. CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
Mims: Start with you, Rick.
Dobyns: Yes, I would like to congratulate, uh, Susan on stepping into the breach (laughter)
uh, doing a fine job as Mayor Pro Tem. Um, not that I would want, uh, the
Mayor, whatever his name is (laughter) to ... continue in his illness ... so ... (several
talking and laughing) ...but Susan, well done! Thank you.
Mims: Thank you! Thank you! (laughter) Michelle?
Payne: Nothing from me tonight.
Mims: Mr. Dickens? Connie?
Champion: Nothing. See you tomorrow!
Mims: All right. Jim?
Throgmorton: As some of you know I've been holding listening posts in various parts of the
city, like uh, basically once every three weeks or thereabouts, uh, at various
restaurants and coffee shops. So I'm going to do one this coming Friday morning
in Fairgrounds on South Dubuque, uh, and ... 8:30 to 10:00 A.M. on Friday
morning. And I'm looking forward to it!
Mims: Just out of curiosity, are you getting many people to show up? Cause I know I did
those for a while on ... on school board and ... nobody would come, so I just...
Throgmorton: Had six people come one time.
Champion: That's a lot! (several talking)
Mims: Good! Yeah, that's a very good turnout. Good!
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