HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-04-17 TranscriptionApril 17, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Fruin, Dilkes, Karr, Davidson, Howard, Miklo, Ream, Moran,
O'Brien, Yapp
Others Present: Graham, UISG
Council Appointments:
Hayek/ Okay, we'll get started with the work session. Welcome, everyone! First item is Council
appointments. Got a couple here. One is for the Board of Adjustment. One vacancy.
We had a gender balance requirement but we're beyond the ... the delay date, so I think
we can go ahead and appoint.
Dobyns/ I wanted to go ahead and speak on behalf of, uh, Gene Chrischilles. Uh, known him for
years, uh, pharmacist. Uh, you know, I think he's um ... person I've been talking with for,
you know, some time, trying to get him invested and get involved in the, uh, community.
Um, so I'm, you know, pretty excited, you know, that he put his, um ... um ... option for it,
um ... and I think he speaks to his values. He doesn't really have, uh, the scholastic
credentials that I think, you know, one would expect like, you know, the other candidate,
but ... and in some sense I think that's good to have people who are sort of outside of the
...the core business, um, of, you know, realty and contracting, um, so (mumbled) one
thing I was really glad to see Gene put his name forward.
Payne/ And he has lived in the community for like 46 years.
Dobyns/ Yes!
Payne/ (both talking) ... quite a long time.
Dobyns/ Yep.
Hayek/ Okay. Is there other interest in, uh, Gene?
Mims/ Sounds fine.
Champion/ Yeah, that's fine, I...
Hayek/ ...consensus for, uh, Gene Chrischilles? Is it Chrischilles?
Dobyns/ Uh -huh.
Hayek/ Okay.
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Dobyns/ If I get it wrong, he'll correct me!
Hayek/ And if I get it wrong, you'll correct me! (laughter)
Champion/ Just say Gene!
Hayek/ Okay, the other, uh, items for the, um ... uh, the Climate Action Task Force, one vacancy,
one applicant, Tom Carsner. (several responding) Good fit for that. Okay. And I think
that's it. Um ... do we want to take up Item 38 on ... Council appointments and Jim's
situation with, uh... ECICOG? Kind of along the same vein.
Throgmorton/ Well, uh, just to ... for clarification. Uh, I've learned as the first few months went
along that every other meeting of the ECICOG board conflicted with every other meeting
of the, um, Iowa City City of Literature. I can't do both simultaneously. So, I ... I'm
happy to go kind of in whatever direction you all would like, but I just can't do both, and
Terry and I had talked about... about the situation, and Terry volunteered to be an
alternate for ECICOG and that's certainly fine with me, but...
Dickens / And I can make as many... once it gets late in the season though, like November,
December, sometimes I won't be able to make those but...
Hayek/ Well, seems we've got three options. One is what you just described. Another is for
someone who wants to swap with you to do so, but then that person would be giving up a
commission he or she is on presently, and I guess the third option would be for somebody
to just take over your position and then you ... you don't pick up another one.
Throgmorton/ And make it up next year? (laughter)
Hayek/ Make it up next year (laughter) so...
Champion/ It will always be there! Are there any volunteers? I'm not volunteering.
Mims/ I mean, I've been on it before, but if Terry's willing to do it, I would be willing to be an
alternate or split it or something if we need to.
Dickens/ We'll just try split shifting the ones you can't make, I'll certainly try to get there.
Throgmorton/ Sounds completely reasonable (several talking)
Hayek/ ...try that?
Mims/ So ... okay. (several talking)
Hayek/ Do you want to double - split -shift it (laughter)
Dickens/ ...then I'll call you if I can't make it.
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Hayek/ Okay. Marian, is that okay? The ... the...
Karr/ Yeah, we could just list it as a `joint' appointment, an alternate.
Hayek/ Great. Try that. See how it works!
Dickens / They've got my email already so...
Hayek/ Okay! Um ... next is Planning and Zoning items, and I think what we're going to do,
since we've got these up obviously for the formal tonight, staff has presentations. We're
going to save those for the formal. Um, now if anyone has questions about P &Z items,
um ... we can ... we can ask those, uh, at least to some extent, uh, during the work session.
So I don't want to foreclose that opportunity. But in terms of a general presentation,
we're going to wait until the formal, just for time purposes.
Planning and Zoning Items:
Throgmorton/ Well, I'd like to present a ... a pair of questions though they don't need to be
answered right now, but ... in our, um, in our regular packet there's a letter from, uh, one
of the property owners who filed the protest ... I'm forgetting his name right off the top of
my head, uh, and he poses a couple questions, uh, in his ... in his letter. And I ... I think
it'd be reasonable, uh, to hear how the staff responds to those two questions. Uh... where
is it, uh, Mark Holtkamp.
Hayek/ Sure.
Throgmorton/ So ... you know the letter I'm referring to?
Howard/ Yeah, but remind of what the specific questions are.
Throgmorton/ Well ... well, he makes a couple suggestions, all right, so I'll just read from his
letter. I propose that you draw up maps of the neighborhoods you want to stabilize and
protect. Similar to the current conservation district maps in the ... in the code book, and
enact these changes to those areas. And those areas alone. The way these changes are
written now they go into effect citywide. Also, additional incentives should be put in
place to allow for more 1- and 2- bedroom, more 1- and 2- bedrooms to help make up for
the 30 to 50% reduction of density and loss of property values.
Howard/ Yeah, and I know he had an analysis in his letter ... um, and some tables that he laid out.
Um, what I think he was missing in that analysis is that we are proposing a bonus density
for 1- bedroom apartments with the density formulas themselves. So in the highest
density multi - family zones, the PRM, the RM -44, the Central Business 2 zone, which
have the highest density allowed for multi - family other than the downtown zones that
don't have any maximum density standard at all. Um, those highest density multi - family
zones where we're proposing that density formula, whereby it would be on a per -
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bedroom basis versus a unit - basis, so that you'd have the same amount of lot area
required for a 1- bedroom as you would for each bedroom in a 3- bedroom. So, if that
makes any sense. Um... what he doesn't include is the density that could be achieved if
you did 1- bedrooms with the new formulas. Um, in his analysis. Now in the medium
density multi - family zones, those are the zones that are in the more sensitive
neighborhoods, so staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission did not recommend a
bonus for 1- bedroom apartments in those areas because there may be the unintended
consequence of causing teardowns of existing, more historic structures, because a lot of
those older houses have already been broken up into 1- bedroom apartments and smaller
configurations because of the nature of the existing buildings. But if you create a bonus
density of such an extreme amount for 1- bedroom apartments, it may become feasible
then to tear down some of those older structures in those neighborhoods we're trying to
stabilize. So it might have a counter- effect to what we were intending.
Throgmorton/ So in part you're saying that the three tables that he presented in his letter do not
include, uh, the effects of the density bonus that you just refer to. So the numbers would
appear differently if they had been included.
Howard/ That's right. Yes. That's right.
Throgmorton/ Okay. How ... how about the other part of this, uh, suggesting that these changes
apply only to the ... to the zones that are ... how does he put it? Located in, uh, in, um, in
the neighborhoods that we specifically want to stabilize and protect. Instead of to all
zones that... all affected zones throughout the city.
Howard/ Well I think in general ... most of the multi - family zoning is concentrated in the areas
that we're concerned about. So, the RM -20, RNS -20, which is the neighborhood
stabilization/multi - family zone, the RM -44, the PRM, the CB -2 zones are already all in
those neighborhood areas in the impact zones. So even if we ... we were to do that, the
same areas would be affected. Now, the multi - family zones that are ... of course we have
multi - family low density multi - family zoning on the outskirts of the city. We're not
proposing any change to those density formulas from what it is existing.
Hayek/ That answer your question, Jim? Okay, are there other, uh, P &Z questions?
Throgmorton/ Do we ... do we know anything about the protest and ... and whether they, uh, arise
to a certain, you know, percent or...
Dilkes/ Bob can...
Miklo/ We had calculated the protests that were in up til 4:00 and they were well short. We did
receive some between 4:30 and 5:00 and urn ... our graphics person is calculating those as
we speak, um, I ... just from looking at them, uh, real quickly, I don't believe they'll be
anywhere near the 20 %.
Hayek/ And when is the legal cut -off for that? Is that the beginning of the formal or...
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Dilkes/ It's the close of the... of the public hearing.
Hayek/ (both talking) ... of the public hearing.
Dilkes/ So, assuming that, uh, we don't get a ... a lot during the public hearing, then it sounds like
Planning will be able to certify that you're under the 20% and you can move forward first
...on first consideration if that's what you want to do.
Miklo/ And ... and even if you get a few in at the public hearing, we could probably give you a
pretty close estimate.
Hayek/ Okay.
Dilkes/ Well, we can't have an estimate. We gotta ... we gotta know what vote we need ... when
you vote, in my opinion.
Hayek/ Well, we'll have to see how it goes, and at the end of the public hearing when it's
closed...
Dilkes/ We'll see where we're at.
Dobyns/ (mumbled) exactly if it doesn't meet the threshold, um ... with a ... with a...
Dilkes/ The 20% (both talking)
Dobyns/ ...20 %. Does that represent a super- majority or we can't even go onto the first
consideration?
Dilkes/ When you...
Dobyns/ What happens if the threshold is met?
Dilkes/ You have ... there's a super - majority requirement.
Dobyns/ That's what I thought. Okay. All right.
Dickens/ I do have a question on parking, uh ... was there any discussion about doing two ... two
parking spaces for three places to reduce the number of vehicles in the downtown area, or
was that a problem with... on- street parking or... cause I know the cost, just talking to our
Transportation person just a flat lot is approximately $5,000 and I know the ramps are
$10,000 to $20,000 (mumbled)
Miklo/ Our current standard is ... for 3- bedrooms, is two spaces. The proposal is to go to three, so
there's one per bedroom, similar to the 1- bedroom and...
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Dickens / And the reason...
Miklo/ The reason is because of the concerns about spillover parking and uh, not having the
same, uh, parking requirement per bedroom in the 3- bedrooms, as 1- and 2's provides an
incentive to build 3- bedrooms, uh, and disincentive to build 1's and 2's. And one of the
things we're trying to do is encourage a diversity and (mumbled)
Dickens/ ...that raises the cost ... per unit then.
Miklo/ Yes it does.
Payne/ Can I ask one more question about that parking since ... in ... it's specifically Item 7.b but
it says ... in ... the approval will increase the number of required parking spaces so that at
least one parking space is provided for each bedroom for multi - family dwelling units
located in a designated impact area, close to the University campus. To me that says if
you have one bedroom you have one parking space; if you have two bedrooms, you have
two parking spaces; if you have three bedrooms, you have three parking spaces. But I
had sent a note to Karen a couple weeks ago and ... when I got the note back, I interpreted
her note to say that ... if you had one or two bedrooms you still only needed one space. So
I was confused about what I'm reading and what I interpreted your email back to say.
So, I...I guess, can you clarify, is it one space per bedroom? Or is it one space per
bedroom after two?
Howard/ I ... I interpreted your question as being existing units versus new units. And existing
units of course are already grandfathered in. We're not going to go back and say (both
talking)
Payne/ No, no!
Howard/ ...all of a sudden you've got to put (both talking)
Payne/ No, I was talking about new.
Howard/ New units ... in, um, and I need to get the figures for downtown. I'm sure whatever I
told you was accurate. The CB -10 zone has a lower parking requirement in general than
all the other zones. Um, but all the other parking requirements should be the... should be
the same, but I can ... I can go up right now and get the...
Payne/ So even if it's part of the University impact area.
Howard/ All the Central Business zones are in the impact area, cause they are...
Payne/ So wouldn't ... I thought...I guess my interpretation of what I was reading was that meant
one per unit, one space per unit. Bedroom. One space per bedroom. In that area.
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Howard/ I think what you have to look at is the actual ordinance. I think if when you... if you
just look at the title of the ... of the item on the agenda, it generalizes the ... the ordinance
requirements. So if you look at the actual table. I don't know if we have `em on
here ... Bob? Okay. Um ... we can clarify that issue.
Payne/ Okay!
Howard/ Because I think there is a break on the ... on the parking requirement for efficiency
apartments in the downtown area. Um, I believe it's .5 spaces for an efficiency and one
bedroom, and one space for a two bedroom and then it would be three spaces for a three
bedroom.
Payne/ Okay. Okay, thank you! (several talking) In CB -10. (several talking)
Howard/ Just the CB -10 zone. It's not that way in any other zone.
Payne/ Thank you for the clarification!
Hayek/ Other questions on the Planning and Zoning items? Again, we'll be getting the
presentation tonight.
Throgmorton/ Could I... could I mention something that has nothing directly to do with that, only
because I just noticed it ... in ... in the material that Marian gave us right at the start of the
meeting I noticed that, uh, Cody Graham's term expires on May 1 st and that Matthew,
uh, Udermark, uh, is here I think. I think he may have just walked in, I'm not sure, but...
is Cody here? Is Matthew here? Yeah, is Matthew here, Cody? (unable to hear person
away from mic) Just to acknowledge their presence, I guess.
Hayek/ Well yeah, why don't we take that up during, uh, Council time at... at the end.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Hayek/ Um ... so ... okay. Let's move on to agenda items. Um ... fairly packed agenda! Any
questions on agenda items?
Agenda Items•
ITEM 21. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION OF INTENT TO APPROVE AN
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT GRANT IN THE FORM OF 4 YEARS OF
TAX INCREMENT FINANCING REBATES NOT TO EXCEED $170,000,
SHOULD ALPLA, 2258 HEINZ RD., IOWA CITY SELECT IOWA CITY
FOR ITS EXPANSION PROJECT.
Throgmorton/ I do have some questions about, uh, agenda Item 21 ... which concerns the ... the
post TIF for, uh, A1pla ... A- 1- p -1 -a. I'm not sure how one...
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Hayek/ Alpla.
Throgmorton/ Alpla, yeah. Okay. So let me find my questions here.
Champion/ (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ Uh ... I mean, I read the material and I know the background, uh, as it's presented
here. Uh, but I did want to ask some questions that, um, kind of go outside what's
immediately addressed in the memorandum, um, because I don't know, uh, enough about
the particular firm and how it produces its products, and that influences... the answer
would influence what I think. So ... excuse me, my voice is obviously kind of going awry.
Uh, it's my understanding produce plastic bottles (both talking)
Davidson/ That's correct, and ... and caps.
Throgmorton/ All right. So the question, first question is, what resources do they use to produce
these plastic bottles and where do the resources come from? Uh, and included in that
question is, do they use recycled bottles, uh, to produce their bottles?
Davidson/ They do use recycled material, Jim, and I don't know the exact percentage. It's a split
between new product and recycled product. I know they have virtually no waste out of
the plant. They recycle ... I think they claim 100 %. You went on the tour, Tom. Was it
100 %?
Markus/ 100% (away from mic, unable to hear) ...they do use...
Karr/ Tom, do you have a microphone?
Markus/ They do use...
Karr/ Thank you!
Markus/ ... some, uh, recycled materials in their actual production. Can you hear me? (taps mic)
Davidson/ When the material ... the raw material comes to them, it arrives by rail, and it is in a
pelletized form, the big hoppers that you see outside the plant are full of the plastic
pellets, and that's the raw material that goes into the product.
Throgmorton/ But we ... we don't know where that ... those materials come from.
Davidson/ It is a ... when we took the plant tour, they indicated it was a mix of recycled material
and new material, new ... new plastic material that they receive.
Throgmorton/ Okay, and ... and so I hear what you say about ... they don't produce any waste,
they recycle all ... all the waste, right? But, um ... the bottles themselves, are they
recyclable?
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Davidson/ Oh, yes!
Throgmorton/ Yeah, okay. And the ... the $170,000, is that total or is that $170,000 per year for
four years?
Davidson/ (several talking) ... four years of pro... it represents four years of property tax rebates.
Throgmorton/ Do we know anything about the energy intensity, uh, of...of the facility?
Davidson/ They certainly describe their process as being, uh, energy - intensive, um ... but beyond
that I don't really remember...
Markus/ Well I ... I think the, as a point of comparison, I think the building, uh, cost allocation is
close to a million dollars, and the ... can you hear me? I'm right in front of it! (laughter)
Karr/ Thank you!
Markus/ All right, um... and the balance of the $11 million project, I think, was all in equipment.
So, it's, uh, a fairly intense power user (noises on mic)
Throgmorton/ Um ... I'll ask one more question, then kind of let it go. Um, do we know what
form of energy they use? Is it natural gas? Is it electric power or (both talking)
Davidson/ I think it's primarily electricity, isn't it?
Markus/ Electricity. (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Primarily coal dependent? Cause ... if they get their power from Mid American.
Davidson/ Yeah, I presume ... yes, they do get their power from Mid American. Yes.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Markus/ We have a resident expert here that could tell you whether it's coal or (laughter) but I
would guess it's...
Throgmorton/ Well I know it's a mix, but you would know the mix better than I do. Yeah.
Payne/ Do you want to know the mix between solar and geothermal and...
Throgmorton/ Sure!
Payne/ I'll have to look it up (both talking)
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Throgmorton/ How `bout coal, nuclear, and wind, cause wind's like 25 or whatever percent right
now.
Payne / Right. I will ... I will let you know. Can, I mean, I have to look it up online. I don't ... I
don't know the percentages off the top of my head (laughter)
Dickens/ Make something up, really good! (laughter)
Markus/ I can tell you their process is ... uh, exceptionally high -tech, and um, their machines are
highly guarded in terms of the technology that they use, uh, to develop these bottles. Uh,
I think I understand what you're saying between the lines about the concern about the
environment and all of that. Um, they're, uh, a very sophisticated operation. It's a very
impressive operation.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I ... I would enjoy going out there for a tour. So thanks. That ... that's
helpful to hear the answers.
Davidson/ Okay!
ITEM 5f(2) City Engineer: Competitive Quotation Results — Court Hills Park Public
Restroom Building.
ITEM 5f(4) Mari (Martha) Struxness: City Council Noise Complaint.
Dobyns/ I want to bring up, uh, Item 5f(2), that was Court Hill Park public restroom building.
Uh, the main reason I wanted to bring it up is that Michelle's always impressed me with
how she can always find numbers, and I just wanted to show you all that I could do it too.
(laughter) Um, I ... I took a look at it, and... and... those of you who've been on here have
seen it. It's just quotes. I just noticed the lowest quote was, you know, several standard
deviation away from the mean, and that kind of impressed me and Jeff did help me with
this yesterday, telling me that, you know, the staff did their due diligence and checked the
references, and he said that's just not unusual for you all to see that sometimes, where
someone will come in very low, um, and so that just sort of happens. So I just wanted to
mention that, um, to me that was new, but I was glad that the City staff took that time.
Um, also the issue of 5f(4), um ... Ecumenical Towers next to Gabe's. I mean, I think
that's just the nature of the Central Business District, is we're going to have odd bed-
fellows sometimes (laughter) where, and I suspect there's some history to that and...
Karr/ Mr. Mayor, I know that they have a presentation and will be here this evening for your
(both talking)
Dobyns/ They will be talking about that?
Karr/ Yes!
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Dobyns/ Okay. All right. Good, so that'll be helpful. I'm looking forward to hearing that. So,
that's it. Thank you!
Hayek/ Okay.
Champion/ Maybe they need to put in better windows!
ITEM 9 (Revised) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING A WAIVER OF
RIGHT TO HEARING AND PAYMENT OF A $1500 CIVIL PENALTY
FROM THE DEN, PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE SECTION 453A.22(2)
(2011)
ITEM 10 (Revised) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING A WAIVER OF
RIGHT TO HEARING AND PAYMENT OF A $300 CIVIL PENALTY
FROM FAREWAY 950, PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE SECTION
453A.22(2) (2011)
ITEM 11 (Revised) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING A WAIVER OF
RIGHT TO HEARING AND PAYMENT OF A $300 CIVIL PENALTY
FROM LIQUOR DOWNTOWN, PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE SECTION
453A.22(2) (2011)
ITEM 12 ASSESSING A $300.00 CIVIL PENALTY AGAINST RED POPPY
PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE SECTION 453A.22(2) (2011)
ITEM 13. ASSESSING A $300.00 CIVIL PENALTY AGAINST RUSS' NORTHSIDE
PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE SECTION 453A.22(2) (2011)
ITEM 14. ASSESSING A $300.00 CIVIL PENALTY AGAINST ZOMBIES
TOBACCO PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE SECTION 453A.22(2) (2011)
Hayek/ Okay, let's keep moving here. Other agenda items that people want to discuss? By the
way, there are six, uh, civil penalty tobacco items, half of which, uh, the um ... the
proprietors have, uh, for ... for half of which the proprietors have waived the hearing and
they're paying the penalty. So we'll just enter ... or take up the resolution to ... to, uh,
accept that, but the other three, we'll see if they show up and ... have we done that under
the new Council yet? So, the... the ... a ... an Assistant County Attorney will, Andy
Chappell, I presume, will be here and, uh, there's a ... there's a hearing. It's not a public
hearing, but there's a hearing and so the County makes its pitch and the ... and the, uh, the
business, if it shows up, can make its pitch. Hold a quick little hearing and then we
decide the ... the issue. And sometimes they show up and sometimes they don't. So...
Champion/ I was glad to see a lot of `em just sent their money.
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Dilkes/ The key to those is that really the only issue before you is whether there was a
conviction.
Hayek/ Yeah, and that follows because ... can you explain that second part?
Dilkes/ Because the civil penalty follows from the conviction.
Hayek/ It's ... it's statutory. So we'll ... we'll take that all up this evening. (several talking) Other
agenda items? Okay. Let's move on then. Next item is exterior design of 114 S.
Dubuque Street.
Exterior Design of 114 S. Dubuque Street:
ITEM 18. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING REVISION TO THE
PROPOSED EXTERIOR DESIGN OF 114 S. DUBUQUE STREET IN
ACCORDANCE WITH THE AGREEMENT FOR PRIVATE
REDEVELOPMENT BETWEEN THE CITY AND CENTRAL PARK
L.L.C.
Ream/ Hi! Karen and I are here tonight as, uh, two - thirds of the staff design review committee,
and we're here because an original concept design was presented to you, um, from, uh,
the developer and owner of 114 S. Dubuque Street, which you used to approve at your
last meeting, the, uh, developer's agreement. As part of that agreement, um, the staff
design review committee is tasked with approving the actual detailed design of the
building, and at the preliminary meeting that, uh, Karen and I had with Marc and his
architect, um, a new design was submitted that staff determined substantially deviated
from your concept design, and so per the agreement, it comes back to you. Um, there are
...there's a second part of this in that not only does the new concept should be approved
by you, um, it also includes, uh, as part of this new design, a 4 -foot cantilever from the
building that would extend out over the Black Hawk Mini Park and four feet into the
Dubuque Street right -of -way, starting at about 18 -feet above the ground and going up the
entirety of the 14 stories. So what you see here is the original concept that you ... was
shown to you as part of, um ... the agreement. And, this is the new design that was
submitted to us. Urn ... basically both the staff, uh, design review committee, um ... we're
all in the general opinion that this is a better design. It provides, um, more usable outdoor
space for, uh, the residents of the building and ... um ... it presents a more articulated and
interesting fagade as you view it from a distance. It's also our opinion that the cantilever
design, uh, provides, uh, it's much better than the original design in that it provides a
more pedestrian- oriented, um, view of that first floor level. Most of the people who are
going to be experiencing this building and its effect on them is going to be from that
pedestrian level. And, here you get a better idea of what that means, what that cantilever
means. And here's another shot of it. What the cantilever will help provide, um, is
something that's actually required in design review guidelines is to make that first level
pedestrian, uh, oriented storefront and the cantilever provides more opportunities for, um,
maybe some architectural lighting, some interesting signage, much better than, um, I
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think it'd be very difficult with the original concept where you have a straight wall going
up from the ground, uh, for 14 stories, you know, how is the designer going to bring in
that ... urn ... that interest to the storefront level. So...
Champion/ Well now that I know what a cantilever is, I don't mind it. (laughter)
Ream/ Um, I think in general, again ... the design review committee and staff agrees that the
cantilever over the Black Hawk Mini Park is not going to have much of an impact on
City Plaza. The cantilever into the Dubuque Street right -of -way though presents a
different issue, in that it will ... it would extend 4 -feet out from ... the line of buildings
along that part of City Plaza, and it will affect the view sheds basically if you were on
...from this one on Washington Street looking down towards the Sheraton, and vice versa
from the Sheraton looking down, um, it could provide some problems with blocking
signage on other businesses downtown, um...it...it is ... it will have an impact on City
Plaza itself. Um, so given that ... given the right -of -way and especially City P1a ... City
Plaza is a ... it's a public resource, um, and the fact that granting an encroachment like this
could establish a precedent for future developments. Um ... staff recommends that the
developer demonstrate... just how the encroachment can help achieve public goals, since
he's asking to use public space. Um, public goals are goals for the downtown Iowa City
that might not be achieved without the encroachment. Uh, I think it's important for all of
us to remember, City Plaza is unique. The ... in its success, I mean, there are a lot of
municipalities during the urban renewal era of the 60s and 70s that created pedestrian
plazas downtown that subsequently removed them because they didn't work. It has
worked in Iowa City for very... for many reasons. Um, certainly there has been
investment both on the part of downtown business owners and the City in making sure
that this is a comfortable, inviting, uh, vitalized place that the citizens of Iowa City want
to be. So, um ... basically the question becomes, you have two questions before you here
tonight, um ... can you approve the new design concept, and staff certainly agrees that it's
a better design. And secondly, is the question of the encroachment into City right -of-
way. Okay.
Champion/ How high above the ground does this ... this cant... cantilever...
Ream/ Right now... cantilever. Right now it's proposed at 18 -feet above, um, the ground.
Champion/ So that glass underneath is 18 -feet tall?
Ream/ 18 -feet tall.
Champion/ Wow!
Dickens/ Was there any concern about the balconies facing Dubuque Street?
Ream/ Well, if you remember, both designs had balconies facing Dubuque Street. Um...
Dickens/ No. The other design did not.
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Ream/ The original one didn't? Oh, you're correct! I think the fact that they're recessed back
into the building helps alleviate concerns about that sort of idea of a balcony, you know,
looming over.
Dickens/ That was just a concern that ... it's overlooking the ped mall and ... I ... question about the
(both talking)
Champion/ ...put cameras up there!
Howard/ Maybe I can speak to that a little bit. I know that other cities that have allowed, I mean,
we haven't had a lot of call for using public right -of -way in this way, having extensions,
uh, over public rights -of -way, um, some of the larger cities have had requests for that,
and they've set up procedures to ... to judge those, um, and whether, you know, they're
worthy of... of selling those rights to the private developer, um... and one of those
concerns has been, you know, the balconies extending over and things dropping off
balconies, and I think some cities have set up standards to prevent, you know, like
railings that would cause things to tip and that sort of thing, but I think in general that
these ... these kinds of things are allowed in ... in larger cities for ... for buildings we expect
to be kind of right up to the right ... right-of-way line, so regardless if it encroaches or is
right to the property line, the same concern would be present.
Dickens / And just a quick question that may help answer that, what was the average cost per unit
going to be? It'll determine a little bit on who lives there, whether ... you know, it's
young professional or...
Howard/ Well, maybe the developer would... if... if you're allowing... him to speak tonight, he
can speak to that question, cause I think our ... our issue was setting a precedent here,
showing a public benefit, and if there's a public benefit to the configuration of the interior
of the building such that it rises to the level of being...
Dickens/ Okay.
Hayek/ I want to keep moving here so let's ... let's have the ... the developer come up, if they're
(several talking)
Markus/ ...maybe we could, uh, explain (away from mic) between the encroachment of the
original building (away from mic) to some degree...
Hayek/ Right.
Ream/ Yeah, the original design had, um, the balconies that you see, um, on the Black Hawk
Mini Park side encroached a foot over into the right -of -way for the first, uh, I think it's
the fifth through the twelfth floors, and then on the thirteenth floor, which is the first floor
of the two -level penthouse units, that balcony encroached 6 -feet out into the right -of -way.
Um, the difference of course here in this design is ... on the Black Hawk side you see that
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4 -foot out for about 60% of the wall of the building, all the way up, and 4 -feet all the way
up ... on the Dubuque Street right -of -way side.
Champion/ That doesn't concern me. There haven't been ... we have lots of balconies in
buildings around town. I mean, Plaza Center has balconies and ... Vogel House has
balconies and Clark's building on ... Burlington has balconies. I ... I don't ... I don't
consider that a problem.
Payne/ But this isn't ... this is living space now. I mean, this is actual living space. It's ... it's
making the unit bigger, so their living space is actually encroaching into the right -of -way,
not just the...
Champion/ Balcony.
Throgmorton/ So what I would wonder is how much is this increasing the, uh, the usable, uh,
space, square footage ... of...ofthe project.
Ream/ Again, I think Marc is here to speak to you about that.
Markus/ But to be clear, the original design versus this design had both balconies intruding into
the right -of -way (mumbled) and living space on the upper stories.
Champion/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ Be ... before we turn to ... to, uh, Marc Moen, I'd like to ask a questions about
design really, um, and then if you want to deflect things to Marc, that'd be fine. Uh,
as ... as Marc knows, when I first looked at, uh, the revised design, I ... I did not have a
great response. Uh, I ... I ... I felt like it... it looked to me like a cold, hard rectilinear
building, or just an elongated box. Uh, and I asked him whether it would be possible to
do anything, or whether he'd considered doing anything like, uh, to uh, to make sure that
the building would resonate with, uh, the Paul -Helen Building, with the Jefferson
Building, with the ped mall itself, by using colors, texture, um, lighting, uh, and other
architectural, um, tools, and when I say all this, I'm not an architect. So I'm not ... I'm
just drawing upon whatever I have, uh, going for me. Uh, but I'd be very curious to hear
how you respond to my concern that to my eye it looks cold, hard, and rectilinear.
Champion/ To my eye it looks great.
Throgmorton/ I didn't ask you, Connie (laughter)
Champion/ I mean ... I don't know ... if I'm willing to say to somebody, You have to build a
building that I like.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, but we're ... we're supporting this substantially.
Champion/ Oh, I know! But ... design is personal.
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Hayek/ Let ... let's get the ... let's get the developer up here, allow them to ... to provide their input.
Ream/ I would just like to make...
Hayek/ Yeah, you ... sure!
Ream/ ...one response to that, and I think it goes back to that issue of...people having very
different opinions about the architecture that they like, and what they respond to. But
what I would point out is that ... if we ... if everything looked the same or resonated the
same, you end up creating a very boring landscape. And streetscape. What happens
when you put a building like this in the midst of more traditional architecture, it actually
extenuates both buildings. It makes you look at both of them in a way that you never
would have looked at them before, and it creates a sort of visual tension that I think can
be very exciting in a downtown area. So yes, it's a very modern looking building, but I
don't think we want ... all of our buildings downtown to look the same. I think what we
want...
Throgmorton/ That ... that's helpful. When I looked at the ... at the image, you know, I was seeing
a smooth surface, but if I'm understanding you correctly in what you said earlier, it's not
actually a smooth surface. There are indented balconies, is that correct?
Ream/ That is correct.
Throgmorton/ Running up the, uh, the north ... the center of the north face of...of the building.
Ream/ Both sides.
Throgmorton/ Both sides (several talking)
Ream/ Right. And the, you know, it's (several talking) it's very difficult on an ele ... on
elevations like this to get as we all know to get an idea of the shadows and how light
would really play against the building. But I ... I think there's a lot to be said for that
juxtaposition of a very modern building in a very traditional setting.
Payne/ And that ... the balconies aren't really in the middle? It doesn't break it up evenly?
mean, it's kind of uneven, so it gives more... dimension, if you will?
Howard/ I think only one ... one comment I would make is that our design review parameters are
mostly having to do with the pedestrian level experience of the building. Um, and while
the zoning code does have some standards in it for building articulation, we do want
varied building walls so we don't get just box buildings. So break up the building walls.
In ... in the sense of the downtown, the design review standards are really talking about
how people ... most people experience a building is ... is as they're walking along the
pedestrian mall. So that's most of our job to focus on that level, not ... not the big
architectural... idea of the building.
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Throgmorton/ Well, my own sense is that design matters enormously. As all of us up here know
the downtown's the heart of the city. The ped mall's the heart of the downtown, and a
...a major addition like this, a 4...a 14 -story building has to work. It ... if it doesn't work,
it's going to be an albatross for ... for us, for years! So ... we want to make sure it works
really well!
Dobyns/ And I appreciate you asking the question from someone who never really passed an art
class. I need to hear that someone has paid, you know, diligence to the aesthetics, and I
appreciate you, you know, bringing that up.
Dickens / And there is precedence with the overhangs on the Jefferson Building to stick out over
the ped mall.
Champion/ Uh -huh.
Dickens/ There is 3 -feet underneath that actually ... as the Jefferson Building goes out 3 -feet
underneath and comes up from there as far as right -of -way, but...
Throgmorton/ Thank God when it's raining! (laughter)
Dickens/ Yeah, it actually isn't too bad!
Champion/ That's a good point! Thanks for pointing that out.
Dickens/ It does come over there (both talking)
Champion/ Forgot about those!
Hayek/ Okay. Hi, Marc.
Moen/ Thanks for letting me, uh, address the Council tonight. So, uh, Jim, I appreciate your
comments and everybody's comments. The, uh, I love architecture. I'm not an architect.
I've, uh, enjoyed a long relationship with Tim Schroder who's here tonight and has put
this, uh, presentation to ... together for me. I've asked him to, if I can get it running...
(mumbled) (laughter) How do I get this (laughter) (noises on mic) (mumbled) Um... in
the historic buildings downtown are ... that's how we started in the development business
over 30 years ago, was buying and preserving old buildings, and we're still doing that.
We own the Starbucks' building, the Gray's building. We're doing the Vito's building
right now. If you haven't seen it, go look at it. We're cutting the old curved windows
back in, putting the old storefront back in. And so, that's a passion of mine, but so is
modern or contemporary architecture, and as Jann's said, the juxtaposition of a starkly
modern building with historic buildings enhances, in my opinion, enhances both, which
you see in large cities, you see in Europe, and has been a huge success for us in Iowa
City. The Vogel House was one of the ... we did the Whiteway Building, which we felt
because it had burned down and was a historic building, that we should be sympathetic to
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that, and so we used some of the red brick and some of those features, but incorporated
modern features, and then we took the next step, which was always my dream, from a
little kid I wanted to build a glass house, and so we built the Vogel House, which was
criticized widely, and very controversial, but was a huge success and then we did Plaza
Towers, which was also a huge success. So I get that we have to be very cautious. The
reason we bought this site was because it's on the Black Hawk Mini Park and that's
going to be ... we're going to enhance that park. That's going to be the front yard of this
building, which is incredible location to me, and we're ... we're very concerned about
making sure this project works. So this was the original concept design, um ... there were
actually a lot of compromises in this design. We had originally thought about a
cantilever construction, but, uh, at that time the structural engineers had, and the design
that was ... was originally conceived for this project was cost - prohibitive to do the
cantilever, and that's been ... that's been rethought. There's been, um, some updated, uh,
design in terms of being able to cantilever the ... the curtain wall system that we're using
has allowed that we can get that cost within reason so that we can go to the cantilever, but
this building was essentially all glass, even the areas where you see the balconies were
just glass on glass. It was a ... I -foot away from the glass doors was a glass railing. And,
it... it was bothersome to me, but it was a compromise that we thought we needed to
make and those doors opened in and then there was this glass rail. But there was no real
true balcony space. And so after the Council approved the project, we had the structural
engineers and the mechanical engineers get, you know, very involved in the process
and ... and the architects presented what I thought was a far- superior design, one that
would be much more marketable than the original design. This would work fine, but,
um ... uh, what we discovered when we got into the engineering of the office levels, which
are hugely important, I think, in this project, was that we had to cut about 278 square feet
out of each of the office levels for mechanical room, which you see in the gray on this
slide. So the architect started thinking about how ... how are we going to make up that
space. They knew that we wanted to incorporate as much office space as we could, and
they suggested... this cantilevering which adds on the north and on the west square
footage, enough that we make up, if you take an average size office, we're talking about
you know three or four additional office spaces within that office level on each level.
And so, as you go up through the building, it also allowed us to now recess those
balconies so instead of all glass on the face of this wall, we have recessed balconies that
are 4 -feet deep, and the back wall of those can be a material that's a ... a contrasting color
to the glass. It gives it much more depth. In terms of lighting it gives us a space where
we can actually light, as we did on Plaza Towers, with low- wattage lighting we can light
those balconies from inside. They're outside on the balcony, but it's recessed from the
building. So you get, I mean, a ... a very interesting texture on this building. Um ... you
can see the cantilever there. Let me back up here...
Throgmorton/ So the cantilever starts at like the fourth ... fourth or fifth floor, is that right?
Moen/ It actually starts at the...
Throgmorton/ ...I mean the inserted balconies.
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Moen/ The inserted balconies start at the fifth level. The cantilever starts, the underside of that
cantilever is 17 -feet up. If you look at like Herteen and Stocker's, at the Jefferson
Building, that canti ... that's ... that's a 5 -foot, I think, wide awning that starts at about 9-
feet. We own the building just south of this, which is the old Blackstone Building, one
that we've ... we bought in order to make sure that it wasn't torn down. It's the only
building left downtown with the old mansard roof. Whiteway and Blackstone were the
only two, and then Whiteway burned. So we're very keen on preserving that building.
Have no intention of taking it down. But this ... this cantilever doesn't start until well
above the first level of that building. It won't interfere with any of that signage or the
signage to the buildings south of it. And what was ... what was really cool or exciting to
me was that... it gives you a totally different scale when you're on the 9th floor, rather
than sheer wall, 14- stories up, it gives you a 4 -foot canopy. With the luxury of the
amount of land we had at Plaza Towers, we were able to set those balconies... those
towers back, so it feels when you walk in between the Library and Plaza Towers it feels
more like a three or four story building. We don't have the luxury of setting these towers
back but you could achieve a very similar affect by cantilevering this out, so that it
becomes much more inviting to pedestrians. It allows for lighting under that cantilever,
um, it's ... it's just a much more inviting design. It puts it into scale so you're not looking
at the sheer wall of 14 -feet. If you pull that cantilever back in on Dubuque Street, you
end up with that 14 -story sheer wall. We talked about even trying to add a canopy at that
level, but you have, I mean, when it's raining for example you have ... you can't put a
solid canopy because you've got 14 stories of rain coming down that wall. So you really
end up with this, which is not really an acceptable design. And then from inside, if you
look at what it does functionally, it's really quite amazing. First floor, retail, is here and
then there's a mezzanine area here. That's all within that 18 -foot or so glass box on the
main floor, and so you'll see the stairway going up from outside. You'll see the people
interacting on those two levels in that mezzanine and main floor. Then as you go up
through the building... this is the office space without it. That's the office space with the
overhang, and that's a comparison. So you gain that extra square footage, and then when
you get up into the residential levels, this is the ... focus on that end condo, that west side
condo or apartment. It's got three walls of glass, and it's got a balcony that's recessed in
on the west face. So this is without the overhang. There's a balcony there. The ... a
bedroom would be say on the south side, and a living room on the north side. Bathroom
and the kitchen would be part of the living room, essentially. But with that overhang...
and the cantilever effect, you have the kitchen gets switched to the west side of that
building. There can be a, uh, window on the back of the kitchen wall that overlooks that
balcony. It's a drastically different floor plan. Far more marketable as a condominium
rather than an apartment with this design. There's the comparison.
Throgmorton/ If I could ask about that. The square footage is being increased for... for these
units, right?
Moen/ Yes.
Throgmorton/ Is that going to affect, uh, the uh ... what we heard earlier about, uh, the ... most of
the units being designed for workforce housing?
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Moen/ No. We've committed to the City that, um, two of the three units on every level will be
within the workforce range. On levels five through... twelve, and those price, those units
will remain in that range. Both rental and sales ... will remain in that range. There will be
increased construction costs, but it's ... it's, to me it's worth it. It's a hugely different
functionality in those office levels and the residential levels ... that justifies it. There's a
...when you take that up over 14 levels, there's about 5,600 square feet of additional
space that's added by these, this 4 -foot cantilever, which increases the assessed value. If
you use $300 a foot at $1.5 million of additional assessed value for tax base. By that
additional cantilever. And we've also, I think agreed at least in principle with the, uh,
City that we basically pay land value for this, for these air rights, even though we don't
get the land. We're paying full value for that. Or 95% value, something like that for the
land. To ... to obtain those air rights. So ... uh, we did ask the architects to do, uh, a shade
analysis. Took the absolute worst case. The day that has the most shade from this
building and you see the red line is without the... cantilever and the incremental increase
is that small section around the red line. This again is the worst -case scenario and, or the
day that has the most shadow.
Throgmorton/ In... in a letter we received from Pam Michaud (both talking) Historic Preservation
Commission. You know Pam I suppose.
Moen/ Yes.
Throgmorton/ Uh, she... she expressed concern about how this shade analysis was not done for
the, uh, for the December 21St, when the shadow would be longest. Uh, and Jeff, I don't
know if that was true for what you showed us two weeks ago or not.
Davidson/ Yeah. The study I showed you was April through November, the thought being that
that's when the ped mall is inhabited with people.
Moen/ That study also showed that the ... the main shadow on this mini park is from the Jefferson
Building and the Paul -Helen Building, during any of the scenarios it ... this ... this, the
shadow stays very briefly in one area, uh, from... from the new building.
Hayek/ Okay, thanks, Marc!
Moen/ Yeah, thank you.
Hayek/ Any other questions for Marc (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ I'd like to say, uh, one thing, but it's not really a question. I ... Marc, you and I
communicated and ... by email some time ago about a constituent who said something
about how important Black Hawk Mini Park has been in terms of, uh, the history of Iowa
City, especially with regard to urban renewal and ... and perhaps also with regard to public
speaking, and I ... it's my hope, I can't speak for others, but it's my hope that the first
floor design will be ... will accentuate and uh recall the importance of...of Black Hawk
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Mini Park in the, in the recent history of the city, instead of, I don't know, you know, sort
of dismissing it. I'm not saying you're doing that, but instead of doing that.
Moen/ Yeah, and we want that area ... we have the lobby is a fairly generous lobby for the
commercial and residential use. It's a very interactive space, both with the retail space
and with that mini park. That's a hugely important aspect of this for us. And so
obviously it would take the City's, uh, involvement but we would love to upgrade that
park and really ... and really enhance it.
Dobyns/ Marc, I was wondering, it seems to me that something happened fairly quickly after, uh,
two weeks ago we approved the, uh, initial resolution, that your structural engineer came
in with some new ideas. Um ... you know, that do intrude on the right -of -way but, I mean,
if people say this looks better, I mean, this is important because it's consistent with the
reason I voted for this in the first place, but um ... that all happened very quickly. Are
there going to be any other things that come before the Council (laughter) I'm a little bit
concerned (both talking)
Moen/ ...that's a very good question, and I apologize, and I apologized to the City staff for ... for
that change as well, and it was ... it was... once... once they started seeing the amount of
space that the mechanical engineer... or the engineering, mechanical space would take on
those office floors, they said do ... you know, we're going to start exploring some ways to
buy that space back and, um, so no, I mean ... any time we build a building, there's always
tweaking of that design, but I ... we've shown this to the lenders. We've shown this to the
respective commercial tenants. We've shown it to the perspective buyers of...of condos
in the building, and they ... they just ... they went ... the lenders particularly just went nuts
over it, and so ... you know, I think ... you know, Tim may be able to speak better to that,
but I don't anticipate any major changes. (both talking) ...play with colors, you know.
Hayek/ I think his question has to do more with ... with, and this is something we need to discuss,
the impact on... on other properties, other developers, and (both talking) the City gets
(both talking)
Dobyns/ ...the fact that we're, you know, allow ... if we allow this, um, there's repercussions, and
I ... that was, concern about that is that if there's any further tweaking I really hope it's
internal to the walls of this building.
Moen/ Yeah, I mean...
Dobyns/ That's okay! I ... I really don't need...
Moen/ No, we're not ... we're certainly not anticipating any other major changes.
Dobyns/ Thank you. I just ... (both talking)
Moen/ Yeah, I appreciate that and ... again, apologize for the change, but ... I think it's a much
superior design.
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Champion/ I like (both talking)
Hayek/ So let's have ... and I'm sorry to sound impatient here, but I'm trying to keep ... we've
already spent about 40 minutes...
Champion/ I'm for it!
Hayek/ ...well, we need to have a Council discussion. So I ... I'm trying to move us (several
talking) Why don't we have some Council discussion on this, urn ... (several talking)
Well, I'm trying! Uh ... you guys are a tough group. (several talking) Yes! (laughter)
(several talking)
Ream/ ...and I'll make it fast! Um, what I wanted to point out is that the staff design review
committee has not done any formal approval of any design. We don't have the details
that we need to do that. And, we would expect once you guys make your decision that
Tim and Marc will come back to us with final designs, where we can actually look at
those pedestrian levels that you're concerned about, and get down to the details about
what we can actually approve, and then ... um ... just reminder in terms of the way the
resolution is worded. Right now if you do approve the new design, you would be
approving the cantilever as well.
Dilkes/ And that more detailed design review does not come back to you. Assuming there are no
substantial changes to the exterior.
Payne/ I think this design is far superior looking. It's more appealing to my eye. (laughter)
Than the other design. I ... I do understand the concern with it hanging over the right -of-
way and purchasing these air rights and then what does that do to the next building. I
don't believe that ... you're going to retrofit existing buildings to do this. So ... I mean, it
just isn't possible to retrofit existing buildings, in my mind, structurally. So it would
have to be new buildings that we would have the issue on in the future, but one of the
questions that I had is, you know, the new building that's going where Bruegger's is.
What stops them from asking to purchase four foot of the right -of -way on Iowa Avenue?
Champion/ They can ask!
Payne / Right, but do we then have a precedence that says we've done it here. How can we tell
them no when we said yes over here, I mean, what ... what criteria do we use to say yes
and no?
Champion/ You think too much! (laughter) I mean, I think this is an excellent design. We
already have like ... Terry pointed out, we have those huge concrete ugly awnings on the
...yeah, you know, and they're in the public right -of -way and nobody's ever questioned
that. It hasn't brought anything ... they didn't bring that up in order to get this done. They
say, well, you already have it. I mean, you brought it up. So ... to me the design is
perfect. I think pedestrian -wise it's much better because you're not going to be looking
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at this sheet of glass, afraid it's going to fall down on you like the Sears Tower windows.
I mean, I think that is a concern for pedestrians when they look at a ... on the sidewalk,
and all they see is 13 stories of glass. This looks, gives ... makes you feel safer! And I
just ... I like the fact that I can run under it when it's raining, you know. So, I ... I'm going
to support this without question. I don't think we're giving away anything. It's going to
be 18 -feet did you say ... can't remember. (unable to hear person away from mic) Yeah,
so ... that's ... that's pretty high up. And I think the benefits outweigh the problems that
we might deal with later, um... and I ... I think the pedestrian mall is different because it's
wider. Iowa Avenue is not very wide. I mean, the sidewalk there is not that wide.
Dobyns/ So we're ... I mean, in the future if someone comes to us, and I acknowledge that,
Connie. If it was just somehow because of the size of this building, the cantilever doesn't
bother me, but if someone suggested the same dimensions on a smaller unit, you know,
and ... on Iowa Avenue, it's just because it's different, but I'm a little bit concerned about,
you know, precedent setting here and not appearing fair. I mean, is it okay in the future
to say, as a Council, you know, to us it just looks different and that's sort of the way it is.
And I'm a little bit concerned how that comes off sounding.
Champion/ Well I don't ... I don't know. I don't worry about what people think what I say.
Dobyns/ Yeah! (laughter) Well (both talking)
Champion/ Let me just give you an example. When Mondanaro wanted to put the outdoor
seating in the planters, people were horrified. We agreed to do it. There has never been
any repercussions from it. It's worked out beautifully. It's added interest to the
pedestrian mall, and we don't have everybody saying, well, I want to put outdoor seating
in the middle of Iowa Avenue. I mean, we set a precedent there, what do you call ... I
can't pronounce those words. I'm from Chicago! (both talking) But... seriously, its ... I
think you gotta make a decision based on what you think is good for the city right now,
and I think this is very, very positive.
Hayek/ I ... I think there's a distinction, and I ... as I understand it, what ... what Mondanaro got
with those ... with those planter, uh, seating areas was ... was not a, he didn't buy them.
He has a license to use them that's based on a, some sort of permit we grant on an annual
basis.
Champion/ Right.
Hayek/ Here we're talking about the permanent sale of... of air within, uh, the pedestrian mall.
Champion/ Well you're certainly not going to be able to take it back!
Hayek/ Right! And ... and I guess ... I guess where I am is I ... I really like this design. I think it is
an improvement over ... over what we've had before. Um, I'm okay with doing it on the
Black Hawk side, which is the majority of the cantilever, um, because uh ... it ... we ... we
permitted it with the first design, albeit at one a foot, uh, as opposed to 4 -feet. It's not a
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thoroughfare area, and it really kind of goes into the ... an adjacent building, the Paul -
Helen Building, but I do have concerns about doing this in the right -of -way on the ped
mall. Um ... that is a thoroughfare. There is a sight line, and ... and there's something
deeper than just simply the visual aesthetics of it and ... and that has to do with my sense
of the community's, urn ... love for, uh, that space. It's City Plaza. It's ... it's part of the
public sphere, and I understand that you wouldn't be doing this until you get to 17 or 18
feet, but nevertheless those air ... that air space is ... is part of that, and I ... I have a concern
that, uh, about that and I ... have also a concern about the precedential impact of this. In
other words, what happens ... we ... I called down to City Hall and we've never to ... to
anyone's knowledge done this before ... so this would be a first. And ... and there are lots
of buildings on the horizon for which a similar request could be made, whether it's Iowa
Avenue or the corner of Clinton and Burlington or ... or anything else. So if we do this,
you know, the Council's got to be comfortable with what could be requests to cantilever
into the public right -of -way on ... on other buildings in the future.
Champion/ Well I think it would depend on where it's at, and how it affects what's below it. I
mean, 18 feet doesn't seem to me it's going to affect sight line or any ... nobody can see
over 18 feet.
Payne/ So would you see ... I mean, Connie was talking about, you know, the ... the
um... sidewalks, cafes, whatever we call `em. There's rules for that. You have... still
have so much sidewalk available. I mean, would you see making rules that `here's the
criteria it has to meet,' and then we can ... to consider it or something to that affect, or is it
just gut feeling? I mean, I don't ... I don't necessarily like the gut feeling because then
it's ... it's too wishy- washy.
Hayek/ Well this ... again, I draw a distinction. With a sidewalk cafe you're talking about a
seasonal license to use the public (both talking). This is a permanent sale (both talking)
Payne / Right, I understand that, but ... but there are still criteria to use. If there's only a 4 -foot
sidewalk, we're not going to let somebody have a sidewalk cafe because there's not
enough ... I'm just saying...
Hayek/ Well we don't ... to my knowledge we don't have any rules in place to guide our decision
on this.
Payne/ On this. I'm saying should we.
Hayek/ I don't know!
Payne/ That's what I ... I guess that's what I'm asking, should we, so that next time ... we have...
Hayek/ Yeah.
Payne/ ...we have a guide!
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Hayek/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ I have two concerns that will echo what Mac ... Matt and Rick have said. Uh, one
is, the intrusion on the west side, the intrusion into the ped mall space which ... which I
take to be just as you put it, tremendously important for, uh, the social life of, uh, of our
city. But I'm also concerned about something Rick was alluding to basically, and that is
two weeks after we approved the TIF, being asked to agree to expand the ... the space of
the structure by 5,700 square feet. Uh, which increases its value, increases its
marketability, and then increases its property taxes. So ... I'm uncomfortable with being
asked to do that two weeks after we approved the TIF process.
Champion/ Well, I'm not! I don't think ... I ... that doesn't bother me, because ... when somebody
presents a preliminary design, all the ... whatever you call that technical stuff architects do
hasn't been done yet. They haven't paid for that yet. Where you... start and put in air
conditioners, furnaces, whatever... all that stuff you have to have in a building to make it
work, elevators, whatever, and so then they start to do that, and then that changes how
that building's going to operate or how it's going to function. So that ... that doesn't
worry ... that doesn't bother me because a preliminary design is a preliminary design. So
that ... and then you start putting the nitty gritty in and ... and things do change, I mean, I
built a house once. I'll never do it again, and things do change.
Throgmorton/ The differences we're basically being asked to approve, an expansion in the size
of the structure, and ... along with a revision in the design.
Payne/ But I don't think it has anything to do with approving the TIF, I mean, that was just... to
me there's two totally separate things. I mean, they came to us and said this is what we
envision it to look like.
Hayek/ And frankly this ... this, I mean, theoretically (several talking) it...it moves up the payoff,
it ... you know (several talking) less risk for the City.
Throgmorton/ ...yeah, not putting so much weight on the design right now. I'm talking about a
couple other things.
Hayek/ (mumbled)
Mims/ Eleanor, can I just ask you, from your perspective as legal counsel for ... for the Council,
what ... what do you see that we need to be worried about, or what things we could or
should do in terms of this being precedence- setting in terms of these air rights? I mean,
as we sit here and talk and people are concerned about, you know, another project
coming forward and just reacting to it from a gut level ... gut level or emotional level of,
gee, we approved this one; why aren't you going to approve mine. Procedures maybe
that we would want to take, um, to kind of get ahead of the curve if others were to come
forward.
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Dilkes/ I think the concern about precedent is largely a political one. And not a legal one,
although I think that what you should ... you would want to do if you approve this is ... is
look at what standards would be appropriate for if you're faced with this decision again.
Um, I think Karen in... in doing some preliminary looking at other zoning codes in other
cities, um ... find standards that guide them when they're making those decisions, and it's
always good to be guided by standards as opposed to your gut because you know you do
have an obligation as a governmental entity to make a reasonable decision. Um, but
there's a lot of leeway when it comes to that decision, and I ... but I think you'd have to be
careful if you got another project to ... to distinguish it from this one, and ... and you likely
could do that.
Mims/ Okay. All right, thank you.
Hayek/ Well we don't have to reach ... I mean, we're ... this is an ... this is an agenda item, so we
can continue the conversation tonight (mumbled). Why don't we do that? Okay.
Throgmorton/ Give us time to ponder it a little bit too.
Broadway Street Name Change (IP3):
Hayek/ Yeah, exactly. All right, next item is Broadway Street name change, IP3. Um ... there's a
letter in the Info Packet, um... John, are you prepared to talk to us about that?
Yapp/ Yes. Uh, good evening, John Yapp, Transportation Planner. Uh, this item is, uh, a
request from Southgate Development in conjunction with their project to, uh, rehabilitate
the Broadway Condominium, uh, complex. They have requested, uh, that the City
rename Broadway Street to Redwood Street, uh, or another similar name. Uh, our staff
did notify every property owner and resident, uh, of Broadway Street, south of Highway
6, and uh, over 100 letters, uh, were sent out. We received three responses, which are
attached to your, uh, information. Two, uh, two responses against the, uh, proposal and
one in favor. Uh, and this proposal has also been covered by the media. Uh, so I think
there is information out there, uh, about this proposal. From a ... from a staff perspective,
changing a street name is fairly straightforward. Um, it's changing street signs, maps,
and notifying online map providers and so forth. Uh, there is ... there is also a change that
the residents and property owners would have to make to their own information. Uh,
their property information, their, uh, checkbooks, their stationary, and so forth. Uh,
Southgate Development has offered to assist in helping defray some of those costs. Uh,
and I ... the question for you tonight is whether you would like us to put this on a ... on an
upcoming formal agenda, uh, for consideration.
Hayek/ (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ Uh, I have two thoughts about this. Uh, one is, if the request had come from, uh,
residents of the neighborhood, of the area, I ... I'd be very interested, and not just
residents, but Southgate and others who have businesses in the area. Or own property in
the area. But ... a broader cross section, if you will, of...of people. My other concern is
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that I think this, uh, is uh, dealing with a ... a much deeper, much more fundamental issue
which... and... and it really only touches the surface of that issue, uh, and so ... with all due
respect to Glenn and Southgate, I ... I don't feel compelled to move in this direction.
Hayek/ (mumbled) ... think?
Payne/ I think I'm pretty neutral. I don't know that just changing the name of something. It
takes a long time to change somebody's idea of a ... of...an area. I don't know that just
changing the name will do that. It takes more than that. I'm not for it or against it at this
point. I'm ... I'm pretty neutral. I mean...
Mims/ I think, um, as often as you and I are at odds on things philosophically, Jim, I agree with
you on this one. Um, I think that it...it really is more of a cosmetic thing, and I think
sometimes it can even send the wrong message to the public that the City Council thinks
the problem is solved if we change the name. And I think it's important that the
community not think that the Council thinks the problem is solved. Um, I think we have
lots of continuing issues that we ... that we need to deal with, and um, I wouldn't want to
send the signal that, gee, we think just by a name change, you know, everything's okay
all of a sudden. So I ... certainly appreciate everything that Southgate is doing down
there, um ... I mean, we gave `em a bunch of the CDBG money and they're doing great
things and really appreciate that, but um ... yeah, I'm not particularly supportive of...of
the name change.
Dobyns/ I'm not con ... too concerned about something that's cosmetic. If it is paired with
something that is substantive as well, and I ... I think what the developer is doing is
substantive. Um, however, timing is everything and there are other elements on tonight's
agenda that I think speak to some, you know, concerns that, urn ... you know, perhaps
we've got to deliberate about as well. Timing is very critical with this, and this comes at
I think a tough time, uh, but I do want to speak to the fact that I think there has been, and
I ... I think we all agree that there's been, uh, the developer... this is a substantive move
forward for this neighborhood. Um, this developer is a stakeholder, as are the people
who live there, as well. People who have been very loud with their silence, um, only
three letters, John. I'm not sure what to do with that, Jim. Um, but my sense is that I
would agree. I would not want to bring this forward.
Hayek/ Yeah, I'm ... I agree. I think we've made, uh, the City and the private sector have made
some strong investments in the area of late, um, and I think that will continue. Um, and I
applaud Southgate for the work, for the role it has played, uh, in this, but ... I guess I'm
not comfortable with ... with a name change. I mean, neighborhoods go through ebb and
...ebbs and flows, um ... over time anyway, um ... and ... and I think we will see that with
...with this area. I ... but, I'm worried about the message it sends, and I would rather we
continue to make the sort of substantive, uh, investments that you alluded to.
Dickens/ The Broadway name actually goes with that area as far as the other streets — Taylor and
all the other ones are named after stars. So it's ... it does follow somewhat of a ... an area.
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So I don't think changing it would really be beneficial. People are used to the ... the name
Broadway, and I...
Champion/ Well I was really neutral on it too. Uh, I wouldn't have minded changing it, but I do
agree with what Susan and Jim said, that it looks like, well, we're going to make the
neighborhood cause we're just going to change the name. And we're not going to deal
with Broadway anymore. So, I ... I think that's a reason probably to just let it be and hope
things just, over time, develop into better things.
Hayek/ Okay. Well there doesn't appear to be Council interest in ... in doing that. Okay, let's
keep moving here. Um, we've got a ... realistically about 20 minutes before we need to
disband and let, uh, folks set up for the formal. Uh, public sidewalks has been removed.
They'll be taken... that'll be taken up at the next work session as I understand it. So we
can jump to, uh, proposed resolution relating to the death of Trayvon Martin.
Proposed Resolution Relating to the Death of Trayvon Martin (IP5):
Throgmorton/ Oh, uh, I ... I should say something, right, since I sent this to you, uh, I guess the
day before our last meeting. Uh, it was inspired, uh, in part by the shooting of Trayvon
Martin, uh, but more importantly by the Million Hoodie March, uh, which I went to, uh,
attended with great interest with my wife and daughter. Uh, I was one of roughly 500
people. A mixture of races, a mixture of ages, lot of people there expressing very deep
concern about... about the shooting of Trayvon Martin, but then, uh, more importantly
what I was hearing, cause I was trying to listen very closely, was concern being
expressed about how, uh, it could happen here. I am Trayvon Martin, uh, there are things
going on in this community that, uh, are, uh, not good for African Americans, for our
fellow citizens, our fellow residents, and... and that, uh, they wanted something done
about it, uh, attention needs to be paid! You know, so ... I didn't record any of this, so I'm
just trying to remember, uh, fleeting images of...of what I was hearing. Uh, but the main
thing I was hearing was people expressing their outrage about the shooting and then their
...their feelings about how things are unfolding in this city. So, uh, after communicating
with you about, uh, about my initial ideas, I ... I wrote a proposed resolution that ... that
connected it, uh, the shooting of Trayvon Martin to the Million Hoodie March, and then
to here so all the whereas's are designed to speak to the here part of it. And ... I guess I'd
say one other thing and maybe this is true for you as well, but I know it's true for me.
I ... I've talked with innumerable people over the past many months in the CRC, uh,
friends who are African American, uh, kind of all over the city, uh, some people I knew
at ... I know from the University. Others I ... I've just known around town. And, they're
all telling me exactly the same thing. You people have a problem here. You need to do
something about it, and ... and I think this resolution, oh, I want to appreciate, uh, express
my appreciation for the Gazette for having a guest, or an editorial about it in... in this
morning's paper. Uh, my sense is that, uh, this resolution is really only a beginning, uh,
and that as the, uh, the Gazette's editorial indicates, uh, we ... we really ought to take
further steps that have more practical consequences. I ... I agree with the editorialist, but
the ... the proposed resolution is a beginning.
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Mims/ I think the way I look at it is ... from a Council perspective, being really cautious of where
we ... where we start and where we draw the line on doing resolutions relating to national,
international type issues because there can be all kinds of those and people can have not
only on Council but within the community, um, you know, all different kinds of opinions
about those, and to me as a Council what we need to focus on, and this is kind of what the
Gazette said, you know, what's going on in our own backyard. And ... and the kinds of
things we can influence. Um ... and I would agree with ... with what you said, Jim, in
terms of a lot of people in color in ... of color in this community will tell you the same
thing. That we have a problem. That, you know, Iowa City is not immune to racism by
any stretch of the imagination. Um, my husband's African American. We've got four
biracial children and I can tell you from their own experiences in this community and
around the state, uh, racism is ... is alive and well, if you will. Uh, so from that
perspective, what ... what I would like to see us kind of approach this from the direction
of, uh, and I called Eleanor, I think, last week sometime, just kind of asking about, you
know, what do we ... as a city, what do we actually have on the books in terms of like
racial profiling and that sort of thing, and what we really have I think is one thing under
the Police Department, you know, uh... standards or whatever in terms of the way they
conduct business, but to ... to maybe look at a resolution that is more, uh, local in nature
and... and to me I think there's really... from the starting point that you came from, two
really key issues that ... that I would be comfortable addressing. One is the whole racial
issue, racial profiling in terms of what our position is on that and how, you know, one
against that we are. And two, because it is in the State legislature, and because it will
impact us, is this whole idea of the `stand your ground' law. Um, from a personal
perspective, I look at what I have at least read in the press about, for example, the Florida
law, and to me my perception of that is, um, that it really kind of gives somebody the
opportunity, if you will, to kill somebody and, well, I was scared. I was afraid for my
life, and they're kind of off scot free type of, I mean... obviously in Florida there has now
been an arrest but still it...it worries me that without a more thorough investigation and
justification of self - defense, that a `stand your ground' type law, um, makes it a whole lot
easier for somebody to do something like that, and so I would be comfortable in moving
forward maybe with a subcommittee of the Council, along with Legal staff, of, you know,
trying to put something together that kind of addresses more of those issues, from a local
standpoint.
Champion/ I ... I agree with you. I'm ... the problem I have with ... I mean, I ... this kid's killing
has caused a lot of grief and a tremendous amount of, uh, of people reacting to it. My
problem with ... going forward with this is kind of the things you mentioned. Also the
other thing is, this Zimmerman who was arrested, I mean, he hasn't been put on trial yet,
and we're obviously putting him on trial. And...
Throgmorton/ But that's not ... just to be clear (both talking) resolution does not intend to do that.
Champion/ I know that! But I think that's the implication of doing something like this. I like
your idea of addressing what's going on in our own backyard. Um... it certainly is
relevant. It's very relevant.
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Payne/ I ... I'm with both of you, Connie and ... and Susan. I really like what Jim wrote at the
very end. I mean, I think ... I... while I agree with what you've said, I think in our own
backyard, the last ... the very last pow... paragraph is what affects, how it affects us, and
we need to do something and say, you know ... make it known how we feel as a Council.
I don't have a problem with a resolution of some sort or, you know, something that we
come out with publicly, but I just don't think that this in my opinion is it. I ... I like the
idea of a... some kind of a subcommittee to come up with something to... so we have a
stance.
Dobyns/ (several talking) ... opportunity is coming up in May. There is the Police Citizens
Review Board meeting as well that ... and there may be concerns that dovetail with this,
and similar to our previous discussion on Broadway, I think, Jim, um, what really is an
information point for whatever we put is something that needs to be substantive and
jurisdictional to what we do as a municipality, what we can do. And I think we can do
that after perhaps that PCRB meeting, um, later on. So at the risk of looking like I don't
get it, because I want to put this off. I think instead I'm willing to do that, because I want
something substantive to go with this... symbolism.
Hayek/ Yeah, I ... I, uh, I'm not sure we need to wait. I mean, I'm open to ... to doing something,
but like the others, I take a more limited view of what the charge of the City Council, uh,
is and I think we, uh, get into, uh, unchartered water when we, or territory, when we...
when we take up specific issues in other states or ... or around the country, and as ... you
and I have had this conversation two or three times, Jim, and you know, the question
becomes: where do you draw the line? The ... the terrible homicides in Tulsa, um, I don't
equate those to what happened in Florida, but ... but some of the fact, you know, some of
the dynamics are similar and ... and both situations have resulted in prosecutions and
federal investigation for possible civil rights' violations. Um, you know, I think if you
make specific reference to this, and ... and what you're talking about, I think you can raise
the argument that we should do so in other circumstances as well, and you can come up
with an endless list of .. of atrocities and... and abhorrent behavior around the country and
the world that we should weigh in on and ... I ... I have a problem ... I think that's
dangerous for us as a body, but there are issues that are truly germane to our community,
um, whether it's, you know, affirming, uh ... um, our ... our policy on racial profiling.
Whether it's taking, uh, a local stand on something that's pending before the State
legislature that would impact Iowa City. Um ... or the general language you've got at the
end of your, uh, proposal here. Um ... you know, I think that is something (mumbled).
Do we want to...
Champion/ Yes!
Hayek/ We're not going to be able to craft something here (several talking) or even by
committee or ... by full Council. Do two or three people want to sit around, uh...
Dobyns/ I'd be willing to help out.
Hayek/ ... over coffee and...
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Champion/ And we'll certainly have Jim on that!
Throgmorton/ I'd like to suggest... mention one thing, and suggest one other thing. Uh, the one
thing I wanted to mention is that in ... in our ... the packet of stuff that Marian gave us right
at the start of our meeting there's, uh, some material was sent to us by the CRC's
committee on, uh, co ... they're calling themselves now the Coalition for Racial Justice.
So I think it's worth taking a look at that and ... and seeing what they wrote. The second
thing is, I would suggest this. If we do in fact appoint a committee as Susan suggested,
uh, that the committee meet with, uh, a substantial number of African Americans who
live in this city, and that the committee listen to what they say. In other words, not talk to
them, I mean, you know, not be the people doing all the talking to them, but just ask them
to tell us how it is from their points of view in terms of their experience, and... and use
that as part of what we end up doing.
Hayek/ Well, why don't we do this. Obviously you're willing to serve on this. I ... I would have
to assume you've just volunteered. Is that enough... and... and I think you ought to work
with staff at some point before, I mean, there should ... all resolutions get vetted, you
know, just for formatting, etc. Um, would you and Rick be able to ... be willing to put
your heads together on this?
Throgmorton/ Well I don't know if I want to work with Rick (laughter).
Hayek/ It's a tall order! (laughter)
Dobyns/ Well I did pass English!
Throgmorton/ Uh, yes is my answer to that, yeah.
Champion/ I think it'd be a good idea to do that. And you, I don't think you have to wait for the
(noise on mic)
Throgmorton/ And you're ... we're being authorized to try to assemble a group of...of (several
talking)
Hayek/ I think you're giving (several talking) yeah! I ... I don't think you're being instructed to
do anything or ... nor prevented ... or ... or discouraged from doing anything. It's what the
two of you ... want to do, as I see it. If you're comfortable with that.
Dobyns/ Thank you!
Hayek/ Okay. Keep an eye on the clock, uh, the benchmarks project. Okay, this is going to be
short and sweet!
Benchmarks Proiect (06):
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Fruin/ Yeah, we'll make it short. Uh, one of the first things the SSMID committee identified,
um, that they'd like to move forward on is a public art project whereby they would have
some local artists paint some of the benches, uh, downtown and um ... uh, they wanted to
move a little faster than we were able to get all the formal guidelines established. So they
would like to have, what we're seeking here is authorization to allow them to paint four
benches before the Olympic Trials fan fest this weekend. Um, under some temporary
guidelines that are in your packet, and assuming that's okay, what we'll do is we'll work
with the SSMID group to, um, develop more formal guidelines through the Public Art
Advisory Commission and uh, we expect that they'll, you know, paint several more
benches throughout the year before, uh, the major festivals this summer.
Hayek/ Everybody (several talking) with that? (several responding) Yeah!
Fruin/ Great!
Hayek/ I presume they've started or they're going to have a lot of work to do in the next (several
talking)
Fruin/ Yeah, they've been talking about it for a couple weeks now so I think their designs are
pretty well (mumbled)
Hayek/ Okay! Thanks, Geoff.
Champion/ Should we put off the rest of this till after our meeting or...
Hayek/ Yeah, we may be able to ... we're almost there. (several talking) Yeah. Info Packet from
the 12th, I mean, many of the items we've talked about tonight, uh...
Information Packet:
Dickens/ I just have one correction. I said I would do May 23rd so Connie doesn't have to do
two radio shows.
Champion/ Thank you!
Dobyns/ We wouldn't want that (several talking)
Payne/ My ... my name isn't on there at all.
Champion/ Wait a minute! What ... where is that schedule?
Dickens/ It's IP11. You're on ... (several talking) ... you're on the 25th (several talking)
Champion/ 25th of April. You're going to do the (both talking)
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Dickens/ No, I'm going to do the 23`d of May. I had offered to do May, cause I couldn't do
April.
Champion/ Oh, okay. So I'm...
Dickens/ You're listed twice in here.
Karr/ So April 25th remains Champion, and May 23`d switches to Dickens.
Champion/ Okay, just don't confuse me, cause you know (both talking)
Dickens/ I know, you confuse easy!
Champion/ That's true. So I'm doing the 25th, and you're doing...
Payne/ See, you didn't have one either, Terry!
Dickens / Right.
Payne/ Okay. I don't feel so bad then!
Dickens/ But Matt's willing to give you one of his.
Payne/ Do you have two, Matt? I'll do May 30th (several talking) No, no, I'm on vacation then!
(laughter)
Dickens/ Never mind! All right, that's all I had.
Champion/ What date ... you're doing what?
Dickens/ I'm going to do May 23`d
Karr/ I'll send a revised one.
Hayek/ Yeah, good idea! (laughter and several talking) Who's up tomorrow...
Mims/ I am!
Hayek/ Okay!
Mims/ I'll remember this time (laughter and several talking)
Karr/ Since we're talking schedule, what about the August meeting schedule? Can we do that
one real quick?
Dickens/ That won't work for me. I'm going to be out of town that 161h
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April 17, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 34
Hayek/ Why don't we just ... (several talking)
Karr/ Stick with it? Okay.
Payne/ You're going to be on vacation that day?
Dobyns/ Uh, it depends, but ... so...
Hayek/ Depends what's on the agenda? (laughter) Okay, anything else in the Info Packet?
Council time?
Council Time:
Champion/ Well, I love the fact they're wrapping buses for the, um, wrestling thing this
weekend. The other thing ... I hope we're going to kind of clean up the alleys a little bit
before the weekend.
Payne/ I was downtown and I noticed it was kind of dirty.
Champion/ Dirty ... it's dirty!
Payne/ Yes! (laughter and several talking) The sidewalks and the alleys were rather dirty.
Dickens/ They've been spray washing them.
Payne/ Maybe I was just in a place that wasn't done yet.
Dickens/ They've started. They haven't done it ... haven't finished all of downtown, but I know
they're in the process of...
Fruin/ Yeah, we're in the ... I don't know if the middle. Probably towards the ... the middle or the
tail -end. Mike's shaking his head yes — of our annual pressure washing so ... that could be
a little bit disruptive, but the plan is to get everything, uh tidied up before the weekend.
Champion/ Well, I'm not always bitching about tidiness but...
Hayek/ Put your mic on, please, Connie.
Champion/ Oh, no maybe you don't want to hear what I'm going to say, but I did gripe about it a
lot when I first got on the Council, and then I went to a small convention in Sioux City, a
city convention of some kind. Big League of Cities, whatever it is, and that town is
spotless, and you know what? I never saw a soul or even a person driving down the
street. There wasn't one person parked at a parking meter. (several talking) There's a
reason it's so spotless! (laughter and several talking)
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Hayek/ Any other Council items? This is totally minor, but uh ... I've noticed that our ... the
minutes that are taken of the various commissions, uh, are sometimes short and sweet and
other times almost verbatim. I mean, I don't know if we pay for that work, but it seems
to me that some of our minutes are really verbose. Uh, you capture everything because it
really is almost sentence -by- sentence, but...
Markus/ Noticed that about the Justice Center meeting (laughter)
Champion/ I forgot to go last week! Yes!
Dobyns/ Connie left! (laughter and several talking)
Hayek/ Just an observation. I don't know if it really matters...
Dilkes/ I ... I think the ... the-almost transcript was a decision by that particular com ... commission
to do that.
Hayek/ Okay. Other Council time items? Okay. Pending work session topics, number IP7.
Pending Work Session Tonics:
Karr/ Just let me know if you're interested in going to the ICAD Vision 2030 breakfast. I've got
Susan and I've got Rick.
Payne / What date is that?
Karr/ Uh ... it's in the packet. Hold on.
Payne/ I can't remember.
Throgmorton/ Is that the one where they have a speaker coming in? (several talking) I think
I've already signed up for that.
Karr/ It's IP 19. And if you go through me, I can go through... do it as a City.
Dickens/ Tuesday, April 24th
Karr/ (several talking) IP 19, it's the April 24th... (several talking) Just let me know. Thanks.
Throgmorton/ Luncheon, right?
Mims/ No, breakfast.
Karr/ It's breakfast.
Throgmorton/ Oh!
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April 17, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 36
Hayek/ Okay, any other, uh...
Fruin/ If I could just jump in...
Hayek/ Sure!
Fruin/ There is a lunch for elected officials, as well, on Tuesday which you all have been invited
to. That's at the, uh, Hills Bank in, uh, North Liberty.
Throgmorton/ That's the one...
Fruin/ That's 11:30 on Tuesday, and you're all invited. Uh, other elected officials from the
round ... around the County have been invited as well. We'll have a couple staff people
there.
Hayek/ Great.
Throgmorton/ Maybe I should say one thing, uh, pretty quickly. Um, you know, there's a group,
Access to Independence, that's been working with various people around town to have
them simulate, uh, certain kinds of disabilities. So I've agreed to do that, and it turns out
I'm going to do it on April 24"', and it's my understanding, you'll be pleased to hear this,
Connie, that I won't be able to speak! (laughter)
Champion/ Yes! (laughter)
Throgmorton/ So I'll have to use an i -Pad or something like that (mumbled)
Champion/ Wow! That's interesting!
Mims/ Very interesting!
Champion/ I don't think I could do that.
Hayek/ Okay. Uh... (several talking) Any other, uh, upcoming events or invitations? Okay.
Okay! (several talking) ...disband and we'll, uh...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of April 17, 2012.